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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law, with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: A unanimous conclusion beyond a reasonable doubt that the defended

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Speaker 2: Donald J. Trump is guilty of thirty four counts of

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Speaker 2: falsifying business records in the first degree to conceal a

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Speaker 2: scheme to corrupt the twenty sixteen election.

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Speaker 3: The historic verdict, the only former US president to be

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Speaker 3: convicted of a crime, came after five weeks of testimony

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Speaker 3: from twenty two witnesses, including a porn star, a former

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Speaker 3: tabloid publisher, and a lawyer fixer turned prosecution star witness

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Speaker 3: with documents including checks invoices, bank statements, texts and emails,

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Speaker 3: and a secretly recorded conversation with the defendant. The jury

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Speaker 3: of New Yorkers took two days of deliberating before finding

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump guilty of all thirty four felony counts of

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Speaker 3: falsifying business records to conceal one hundred and thirty thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars payment to a porn star to buy her silence

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Speaker 3: before the twenty sixteen presidential election, a conspiracy that prosecutors

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Speaker 3: say deprive voters of vital information before that election. The

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Speaker 3: verdict is a stunning legal reckoning for Trump and exposes

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Speaker 3: him to potential prison time in the city where he

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Speaker 3: more from a real estate tycoon to a reality television

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Speaker 3: star and ultimately to president of the United States. But

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Speaker 3: Trump maintained his innocence and vowed to appeal.

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Speaker 4: You have a so respect Da and the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: We didn't do any thing wrong.

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Speaker 4: I'm a very innocent man, and I think it's just

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Speaker 4: a disgrace, and we'll keep fighting.

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Speaker 1: We'll fight till the end and we'll win.

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Speaker 3: Joining me now is Bloomberg Legal reporter Patricia Hurtado, who's

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Speaker 3: been in the courtroom for the trial and the verdict.

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Speaker 3: Pat did you think the verdict would come so fast?

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Speaker 3: I mean, we've been talking about this trial nearly every day,

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Speaker 3: and it seemed like a verdict would take much longer,

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Speaker 3: especially because the jury heard a read back of testimony

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Speaker 3: and the judge's instructions.

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Speaker 1: Just that morning.

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Speaker 5: I thought it was really interesting that the jury had

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Speaker 5: asked for testimony between David Pecker and Michael Cohen. The

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Speaker 5: defense lawyer, Todd Blanchett argued in closing to the jury

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Speaker 5: that Cohen had completely contradicted Pecker. But if you actually

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Speaker 5: listen to the rebat of the testimony, it became really

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Speaker 5: clear that he didn't at all. It actually that they

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Speaker 5: had corroborated each other, it seemed. Then the jury got

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Speaker 5: quiet for quite some time, and then suddenly the verdict

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Speaker 5: was being announced. It was quite heart stopping. And to

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Speaker 5: hear that first count guilty, and then here for four

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Speaker 5: straight minutes, thirty four counts of guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty,

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Speaker 5: being uttered, it was just unbelievable, like a wave. And

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Speaker 5: then we heard cheers from outside the courthouse. Were on

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Speaker 5: the fifteenth floor, but it seemed that the word had

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Speaker 5: gotten filtered out to news crews outside and there were

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Speaker 5: cheers from people out in the park that had gathered

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Speaker 5: to hear it. So it was quite a historic moment.

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Speaker 3: Did the jurors look at Donald Trump when they were reading.

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Speaker 5: That they filed in and they did not make eye

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Speaker 5: contact with him? What they walked in, which is to

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Speaker 5: me always a tip off. And then most of them

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Speaker 5: were looking down. But they pulled the jury and it

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Speaker 5: was unanimous.

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Speaker 3: From Trump's statements outside the courthouse, it seemed to me

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Speaker 3: like he was prepared for a guilty verdict. On the

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Speaker 3: first day of the jury's deliberations. He said that even

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Speaker 3: mother Teresa couldn't beat these charges. Did Trump react in

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Speaker 3: anyway when the verdict was read?

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Speaker 5: He sat stone face as the verdict was announced and

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Speaker 5: looked straight ahead, and then he got up. It looked like,

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Speaker 5: you know, when his face was just fury. And then

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Speaker 5: he turned around and he fist bumped his son, Eric Trump,

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Speaker 5: who would seed it right behind him. And then he

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Speaker 5: basically strode down the center aisle of the courtroom and

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Speaker 5: walked out to make his statement. And Trump seemed to

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Speaker 5: be fumbling to try to figure out what to say,

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Speaker 5: but it was not the kind of forceful thing you

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Speaker 5: typically expect from Donald Trump. You know, he might have

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Speaker 5: been prepared that he was possibly expecting the guilty verdicts.

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Speaker 5: But my colleague photographers captured some astounding images of his

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Speaker 5: trial team looking completely shattered and shocked, including Lena Haba,

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Speaker 5: his lawyer, with her jaw dropping open, and some of

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Speaker 5: the court officers looked stricken.

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Speaker 3: What about the prosecutors. Were they smiling at least h.

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Speaker 5: Yes, there were huge grins from the prosecutors like Josh Steinlass,

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Speaker 5: who spent five hours on Tuesday trying to convince the

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Speaker 5: jury and going through all the massive evidence. He called

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Speaker 5: it a mountain of evidence. A Matthew Colangelo, who was

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Speaker 5: a former federal prosecutor who had done a masterful job

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Speaker 5: of openings. He had a huge grin. And Susan Hoffinger,

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Speaker 5: who came to joined Bragg's team as a criminal defense player.

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Speaker 5: She came back as a prosecutor. She had done an

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Speaker 5: amazing cross examination of Costello, who was Trump's witness, and

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Speaker 5: they all had huge grins.

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Speaker 3: You know, having covered this for so long, the kind

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Speaker 3: of abuse that Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg has taken

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Speaker 3: over his decision to bring this case the way it

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Speaker 3: was charged and with the star witness, Michael Cohen, being

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Speaker 3: a convicted perjurer. Yet he was very low key in

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Speaker 3: his press conference after the verdict. No gloating. Here's part

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Speaker 3: of that.

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Speaker 2: While this defendant maybe unlike any other in American history,

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Speaker 2: we arrived at this trial and ultimately today at this

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Speaker 2: verdict in the same manner as every other case that

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Speaker 2: comes to the courtroom do by following the facts and

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Speaker 2: the law and doing so without fear or fever.

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Speaker 5: Alvin Bragg has a reputation of being a very circumspect person,

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Speaker 5: he's not a dynamic speaker at all. And I think

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Speaker 5: under the law and criminal cases are different from Tiss James.

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Speaker 5: So she can go out and have a press conference,

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Speaker 5: but under criminal law, prosecutors have to be much more

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Speaker 5: careful of what they're saying on the courthouse steps, and

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Speaker 5: they cannot basically try their case on the steps of

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Speaker 5: the courthouse. They have to limit their statements to what's

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Speaker 5: going on in court. Alvian Bragg is practitioner of that

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Speaker 5: to the NS degree. But he did seem very happy,

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Speaker 5: and he was basically saying that while they've had massive

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Speaker 5: fights and battles, has reached this day a jury has

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Speaker 5: ultimately spoken. But even if it's historic, it was treated

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Speaker 5: just the way the office is always handled white collar crimes,

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Speaker 5: in the same manner that any other cases brought in

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Speaker 5: this court have.

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Speaker 3: Patty Judge Wan Murshaan incredibly kept this case on track

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Speaker 3: despite the challenges of trying a former president and one

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Speaker 3: who attacked the process, the trial, the DA, the judge

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Speaker 3: nearly every day outside the courtroom and then at night

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Speaker 3: on truth social.

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Speaker 5: The judge has been extremely careful and cautious. He's a

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Speaker 5: very mild mannered guy. He never loses his temper. I've

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Speaker 5: made the joke to you, June that most of us

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Speaker 5: would love to have a husband like that, because he

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Speaker 5: never loses his temper, and he has been challenged. I

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Speaker 5: think the magnanimity and import of what he has to

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Speaker 5: do in this case has always weighed heavily on him,

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Speaker 5: and he takes it extremely seriously. So he's not a

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Speaker 5: kind of guy like Judging Goren, who used to make

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Speaker 5: joke be very jocular. He is a just very serious person.

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Speaker 5: And he's been challenged by Trump, has Alvin Bragg, and

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Speaker 5: has that trial team. They've had death threats and Judge

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Speaker 5: Mersham's daughter was threatened. So we all need to remember

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Speaker 5: that Donald Trump had promised death and destruction if he

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Speaker 5: got indicted, and that's what happened. So here we are

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Speaker 5: a year later, and everybody's had to deal with this

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Speaker 5: historic case with a historic cent that doesn't act like

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Speaker 5: most incidents.

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Speaker 3: It would be so fascinating to find out what happened

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Speaker 3: in that jury room and how the jurors viewed some

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Speaker 3: of the testimony that we've been talking about for weeks,

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Speaker 3: But none of the jurors spoke after the trial.

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Speaker 1: At least not so far. I mean, you never know.

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Speaker 3: There are possible book deals and other money incentives out there.

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Speaker 5: It was stunning to be that prospective jurors walked out

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Speaker 5: of the courthouse after being dismissed and saying they were

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Speaker 5: too frightened to be on a jury, and then they

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Speaker 5: walked in front of the TV cameras and gave interviews,

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Speaker 5: as always shocks me also as a veteran court reporter

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Speaker 5: and have covered hundreds of trials where the jurors will say,

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Speaker 5: oh sorry, no interviews, including Glenne Maxwell's juror that later

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Speaker 5: came forward and said, you know that he had cried

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Speaker 5: when he left the courthouse, and I actually door stopped

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Speaker 5: him as he walked out of the Manhattan Cederal Courthouse,

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Speaker 5: would you like to comment? And he basically ran away

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Speaker 5: from me. So I'm always kind of surprised when I

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Speaker 5: see people, but I guess when they want us to

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Speaker 5: get their fifteen minutes the same, some people are very tempted.

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Speaker 5: I personally kind of think in this case, you know,

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Speaker 5: Trump will look for every angle to challenge this. So

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Speaker 5: I don't know if it's such a good idea, especially

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Speaker 5: for someone like Donald Trump and his followers.

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Speaker 4: So I don't know.

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Speaker 3: And Judge Marshaan spoke to the jurors after they handed

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Speaker 3: down the verdict. Did he mention anything about interviews with

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Speaker 3: the media.

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Speaker 5: Yes, and he thanked them for their service, and he

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Speaker 5: said things like, you know, this was an amazing job

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Speaker 5: you guys did, and it was historic and what you've

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Speaker 5: done is you've paid all this attention and you know,

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Speaker 5: he wanted to thank them personally. He said, I can't

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Speaker 5: get into details of the case, but I also just

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Speaker 5: want to thank you personally. And you know, we also

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Speaker 5: had two other juries reached verdicts on Donald Trump in

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Speaker 5: New York City. We had two Manhattan federal juries in

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Speaker 5: the Egen Carroll case, and they were both deemed anonymous

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Speaker 5: by the federal judge in that case. That's the practice

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Speaker 5: in federal court. But he said, you were engaged in

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Speaker 5: a very stressful and difficult task, and I want you

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Speaker 5: to know that I really admire your dedication and hard work.

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Speaker 5: You're free to discuss this case with anyone, and you're

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Speaker 5: free to not discuss it. The choice is yours.

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Speaker 3: Thanks so much, Patty for all your reports from the

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Speaker 3: courthouse that have brought us inside that courtroom. That's Bloomberg

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Speaker 3: Legal reporter Patricia Hurtado coming up next on the Bloomberg

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Speaker 3: Lawn Show. We're going to take a close look at

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Speaker 3: what happened next in the historic prosecution of Donald Trump,

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Speaker 3: the sentencing possibilities, and the appellate arguments. I'm June Grosso

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Speaker 3: and you're listening to Bloomberg. Donald Trump has made his

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Speaker 3: many legal woes the centerpiece of his presidential campaign, and

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Speaker 3: the day after the historic verdict that found the former

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Speaker 3: president guilty of thirty four felony counts and facing prison,

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Speaker 3: Trump's message appeared to be exactly the same as before

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Speaker 3: the trial. He attacked the judge as biased and slammed

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Speaker 3: the prosecution as a scam.

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Speaker 1: It was a rig trial.

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Speaker 3: We wanted a venue change where we could have a

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Speaker 3: fair trial.

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Speaker 1: We didn't get it. We wanted a judge change. We

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Speaker 1: wanted a judge. It wasn't conflicted.

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Speaker 3: If you have any doubts about whether this will continue,

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Speaker 3: Trump's campaign raised thirty four point eight million dollars in

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Speaker 3: the six hours after the guilty verdict was announced. That's

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Speaker 3: more than one million dollars for each felony conviction, and

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Speaker 3: for the first time president Joe Biden commented on Trump's prosecution.

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Speaker 2: It's reckless, it's dangerous.

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Speaker 3: It's irresponsible for anyone to say this was rigged just

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Speaker 3: because they don't like the verdict. Judge wanmer Shawn has

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Speaker 3: scheduled Trump's sentencing for July eleventh. Only after that can

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Speaker 3: Trump appeal the conviction. My guest is former federal prosecutor

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Speaker 3: Robert Mintz, a partner McCarter English Bob Manhattan DA Alvin

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Speaker 3: Bragg has endured a lot of public criticism for bringing

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Speaker 3: this case, which is consistently called the least serious of

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Speaker 3: the four prosecutions of Trump. Is this a total vindication

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Speaker 3: for Bragg?

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Speaker 4: During the press conference after the conviction, the Manhattan DA

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Speaker 4: did his best to try to downplay this case, or

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Speaker 4: at least try to convey to the public that this

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Speaker 4: was really business as usual for the Manhattan DA's office,

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Speaker 4: and that this trial, even though it involved a former

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Speaker 4: president and was obviously enormously high profile, was really treated

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Speaker 4: no differently than any other case in his office. But

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Speaker 4: he couldn't really escape the fact that this was a

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Speaker 4: career make or break case for him given the stakes here,

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Speaker 4: So he really laid his career on the line when

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Speaker 4: he decided to pursue this case, and there were questions

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Speaker 4: from the beginning because of the novel theory that the

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Speaker 4: Manhattan DA's Awe is relied upon in order to bring

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Speaker 4: these charges. That is that the original crime of creating

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Speaker 4: a false business record is only a misdemeanor in New

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Speaker 4: York State, which means it's subject to imprisonment of less

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Speaker 4: than a year, relatively a minor crime. What turns it

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Speaker 4: into a felony is if prosecutors can show that you

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Speaker 4: falsified those business records for the purpose of committing another crime.

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Speaker 4: And in this case, the other crime that prosecutors ultimately

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Speaker 4: alleged was to try to improperly influence the election, to

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Speaker 4: try to cover up a story that they thought would

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Speaker 4: have a detrimental effect on the election at that time.

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Speaker 4: That was really the heart of the case. They made

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Speaker 4: a very compelling case, obviously because they got twelve jurors

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Speaker 4: to agree that they had proven their case, But no question,

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Speaker 4: that's going to be the focal point of their appeal.

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Speaker 3: Before we get to appeal, let's talk about sentencing, because

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Speaker 3: the biggest question on people's minds right now is whether

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Speaker 3: or not the judge, which will sentence Trump to prison. Technically,

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Speaker 3: face is up to four years in prison for each count.

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Speaker 3: Will the judge factor in the political consequences and the

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Speaker 3: logistical complexities of jailing a former president with his Secret

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Speaker 3: Service detail.

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Speaker 4: Well, let's start by pointing out that the judge has

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Speaker 4: an enormous amount of discretion when it comes to sentencing.

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Speaker 4: That's the way our criminal justice system works. Jurors find

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Speaker 4: guilt or innocence. They are the finders of the facts.

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Speaker 4: They make a decision as to whether or not the

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Speaker 4: prosecutors were able to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

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Speaker 4: But after that, the punishment phase, the sentencing is entirely

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Speaker 4: up to the trial judge, and that is true in

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Speaker 4: every criminal case across the country, whether it's on the

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Speaker 4: state or federal level. In this case, like every other case,

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Speaker 4: the judge has to make a very difficult decision about

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Speaker 4: whether or not to send former President Trump to jail.

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Speaker 4: There are an number of other issues that he could

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Speaker 4: consider in terms of sentence. For example, he could send

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Speaker 4: former President Trump to probation. He could sentence former President

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Speaker 4: Trump's up to four years in jail. He could do

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Speaker 4: something called house arrests, which allows a judge to have

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Speaker 4: a defendant stay at home, essentially serve their term of

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Speaker 4: incarceration in their home with an ankle monitor. He also

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Speaker 4: could decide to send former President Trump to prison for

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Speaker 4: some period of time, but only on the weekend. So

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Speaker 4: there's lots of different things he could do here. But

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Speaker 4: I think really in everybody's mind, the real question is

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Speaker 4: will he get probation or will he get some type

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Speaker 4: of incarceration. And if you look at these types of

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Speaker 4: cases in New York State, for this particular violation, it

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Speaker 4: is rare that somebody goes to jail. I think only

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Speaker 4: ten percent of these types of business record violations will

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Speaker 4: result in some kind of imprisonment. But on the other hand,

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Speaker 4: this is certainly not the ordinary case, and so I

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Speaker 4: think the judge has a very difficult decision to make

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Speaker 4: in deciding whether or not to former President Trump just

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Speaker 4: any kind of term of incarceration.

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Speaker 1: Let's discuss the appeal. Now.

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Speaker 3: Trump has vowed to appeal, and certainly we've seen that

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Speaker 3: it's his pattern to appeal every part of the process.

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Speaker 3: So to prevail, he has to demonstrate that the judge

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Speaker 3: made some significant errors in overseeing the trial. Let's discuss

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Speaker 3: some of the possible appellate issues, starting with right after

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Speaker 3: the verdict and throughout the trial, Trump complained about the

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Speaker 3: judge not changing the venue of the trial, the place

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Speaker 3: where the trial was held. He wanted it out of

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Speaker 3: New York City, where he said, you know, the electorate

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Speaker 3: was against him.

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Speaker 4: Well. A change of venue is a motion that you

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Speaker 4: see often in a high profile case. It's basically the

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Speaker 4: defense arguing that where that case is currently venued, where

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Speaker 4: the trial is going to be, that the defendant simply

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Speaker 4: cannot get a fair trial for some reason. But it

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Speaker 4: is a very difficult motion to win because simply being

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Speaker 4: a high profile case is usually not enough. Now, in

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Speaker 4: this case, the argument is even more interesting because what

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Speaker 4: the Trump team is arguing is not just that in

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Speaker 4: Manhattan it is a very high profile case and everybody

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Speaker 4: knows who he is, because that would be true any

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Speaker 4: place in the country. What they are doing is they

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Speaker 4: are trying to blend what would typically be a change

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Speaker 4: of venue because of some type of improper pre trial

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Speaker 4: publicity that will prevent their client from getting a fair trial,

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Speaker 4: to turning it into essentially an election issue by saying

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Speaker 4: that the people in Manhattan overwhelmingly voted Democratic, voted for

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Speaker 4: former President Biden, and therefore they must be biased against him.

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Speaker 4: And I think the problem with that argument is it

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Speaker 4: suggests that merely because you vote against somebody in order

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Speaker 4: to be president, that in some way you cannot sit

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Speaker 4: in a trial and be unbiased in terms of determining

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Speaker 4: whether or not the prosecution has proved their case beyond

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Speaker 4: a reasonable doubt. No one has ever made that our before,

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Speaker 4: because we've ever had anybody like former President Trump was

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Speaker 4: this kind of visibility all around the country. But on

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Speaker 4: the other hand, he's not the first politician who's ever

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Speaker 4: been tried, and politicians will always be able to point

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Speaker 4: to parts of the state, for example, where they may

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Speaker 4: be more or less popular, and generally that's not going

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Speaker 4: to be a basis to move the trial, Okay.

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Speaker 3: Another At the press conference after the verdict, he also

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Speaker 3: complained about the judge not allowing their expert witness on

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Speaker 3: elections to testify, So that might be another appellate point.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, as a defense lawyer, you're going

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Speaker 4: to throw everything against the wall because you never know

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Speaker 4: what the Court of Appeals might find interesting. You have

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Speaker 4: your ideas and that's what you think your best arguments are.

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Speaker 4: But they may look at something else and decide to

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Speaker 4: go with it, So you're going to throw everything there. Here,

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Speaker 4: we have a circumstance where they wanted to put an

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Speaker 4: election expert on the stand, and the judge just looked

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Speaker 4: at it and said the argument that the election expert

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Speaker 4: was going to make was to attenuated. It was not

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Speaker 4: something that he thought could even go before the jury. Obviously,

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Speaker 4: that's the judgment call, and the Trump team is going

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Speaker 4: to try to argue that it was improper to have

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Speaker 4: prevented their election experts from having testified in his defense

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Speaker 4: at the trial.

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Speaker 3: Bob almost every day Trump complained about the judge being biased.

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Speaker 3: They may raise that on appeal, but that seems to

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Speaker 3: me like not an appellate issue that would go anywhere.

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Speaker 1: What do you think, Well, I.

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Speaker 4: Think the judge did a very good job under very

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Speaker 4: difficult circumstances of maintaining his composure and trying to treat

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Speaker 4: this trial like every other case. And he had to

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Speaker 4: do that in the face of a defendant who was

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Speaker 4: really testing the limits of his ability to speak about

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Speaker 4: the trial outside of the courtroom. And that's why the

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Speaker 4: judge imposed a gag order, and that's why the judge

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Speaker 4: found that foreign President Trump had actually violated that gag

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Speaker 4: order a number of times and found him in contempt,

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Speaker 4: but he did not put him in jail. And so

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Speaker 4: I think here the record is going to show that

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Speaker 4: the judge was even handed in the way he approached

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Speaker 4: the case. Obviously, the defense team is not happy with

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Speaker 4: his rulings, but in terms of being able to show

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Speaker 4: any kind of manifest bias in the way that he

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Speaker 4: conducted the trial, I really did not see that happening.

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Speaker 4: One of the other things the Trump defense team is

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Speaker 4: raising in connection with this bias argument is the fact

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Speaker 4: that the judge's daughter apparently works for a democratic consulting

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Speaker 4: firm and that that would somehow weigh in his decision

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Speaker 4: making and make him unfit to serve as a judge

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Speaker 4: in this case. But that argument has been made time

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Speaker 4: and time again, and you would have judges rechoosing themselves

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Speaker 4: or being forced off cases all the time if you

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Speaker 4: looked at their children and the jobs that they had

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Speaker 4: and whether those had any connections to some of these cases.

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Speaker 4: So I don't think that's really likely to go anywhere.

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Speaker 4: And I don't think it's really one of the best

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Speaker 4: arguments for the defense.

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Speaker 3: Then there is the Stormy Daniels testimony, which went into

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Speaker 3: explicit detail, and I'm sure the defense will argue that

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Speaker 3: wasn't necessary in a case over falsified business records and

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Speaker 3: might have prejudiced a jury against Trump.

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Speaker 4: Well, her testimony was pretty detailed, was pretty salacious, and

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Speaker 4: even at one point was a bit cringe worthy for

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Speaker 4: even the judge who asked that she dialed back some

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Speaker 4: of her detailed descriptions of the alleged encounter between her

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Speaker 4: and former President Trump. At one point, they judge said

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Speaker 4: to the defense that they expected the defense lawyers to

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Speaker 4: object more, and they judge hinted that he might have

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Speaker 4: upheld some of those objections, but since they weren't objected to,

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Speaker 4: he allowed a lot of that testimony in. But at

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Speaker 4: its core here the issue from the prosecution standpoint is

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Speaker 4: that since former President Trump was denying that this encounter

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Speaker 4: even took place, it opened the door for them to

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Speaker 4: put Stormy Daniels on as a witness to demonstrate that

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Speaker 4: the encounter had taken place, or at least put that

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Speaker 4: issue before the jury so they could decide for themselves

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Speaker 4: whether she was credible, because in the eyes of prosecutors,

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Speaker 4: that was the motive for the case. So, in other words,

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Speaker 4: obviously the sexual encounter itself was not a crime, and

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Speaker 4: nobody was suggesting that it was. But what prosecutors were

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Speaker 4: saying was, you have to believe that that sexual encounter

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Speaker 4: took place in order to understand the prosecution's theory of

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Speaker 4: the case, and that is that records were falsified in

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Speaker 4: order to affect the election. And the only reason that

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Speaker 4: the payoff was made to Stormy Daniels was because former

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Speaker 4: President Trump knew that the incident and the encounter actually happened,

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Speaker 4: and the campaign was worried that that information got out

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Speaker 4: it could turn the electorate against them on the eve

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Speaker 4: of the election.

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Speaker 3: You talked about the novel legal theory, which hasn't been

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Speaker 3: tested on appeal. Falsifying business records on its own as

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Speaker 3: a misdemeanor in New York, but it's elevated to a

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Speaker 3: felony if done to further or conceal a crime. I mean,

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Speaker 3: looking at all all the different possibilities, that seems like

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Speaker 3: the most substantial to me.

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Speaker 1: Do you think they have a chance on that?

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Speaker 4: I think that's absolutely their best chance, because that's purely

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Speaker 4: a legal argument. It's not really suggesting that the judge

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Speaker 4: acted improperly, not suggesting that a witness's testimony went a

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Speaker 4: bit too far, because the Court of Appeals gives a

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Speaker 4: lot of latitude to the trial judge to run their

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Speaker 4: own courtroom and is unlikely to really step in unless

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Speaker 4: some of the conduct was really egregious, which I don't

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Speaker 4: think happens here. The best argument I would agree with

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Speaker 4: you is this legal theory argument, saying that the prosecutors

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Speaker 4: here put together a case that is untested where there

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Speaker 4: is no real appellate law that has validated this theory

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Speaker 4: of turning the misdemeanor records case into a felony by

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Speaker 4: tying it in this case to a federal election, that

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Speaker 4: really is something that has never been done before, and

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Speaker 4: the Court of Appeals may look at this and decide

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Speaker 4: that prosecutors went too far.

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Speaker 3: It's clear that this won't affect Trump's ability to become president. Again,

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Speaker 3: nothing in the Constitution prevents a convicted felon from running

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Speaker 3: for the nation's highest office or serving as president. But

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Speaker 3: will it cost him his right to vote?

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Speaker 4: Well, that's an interesting question, and a lot of people

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Speaker 4: are under the belief that once you're a convicted felon,

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Speaker 4: you can no longer vote. The fact is that does

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00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 4: vary from state to state. Now, former President Trump is

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00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 4: now a Florida resident, as everybody knows, he's moved from

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00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 4: New York to Florida. In Florida, the law is that

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00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 4: they apply the law of the state where the conviction

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00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 4: took place. So Florida would look to New York state

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00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 4: law to decide whether or not former President Trump was

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00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 4: permitted to vote in Florida. The law in New York

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00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 4: now is that even if you're a convicted felon, you

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00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 4: can still vote as long as you are not actually

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00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 4: in prison. So as long as former President Trump was

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00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 4: not in prison, he would be permitted to vote in

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00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 4: Florida because that's the law in New York State.

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00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 3: Former President Trump is attacking the system as well as

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00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 3: we see Republicans attacking the system. Does this case show

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00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 3: that the system works?

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Speaker 5: Well?

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Speaker 4: I think that really depends on what side of the

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00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 4: political spectrum you fall on. But I will say this,

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00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 4: I think that's the judge on the Manhattan DA and

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00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 4: even the Trump defense team did a good job of

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00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 4: maintaining the decorum that you would typically find in the

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00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 4: criminal case. They tried to minimize the circus atmosphere that

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00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 4: we've seen in some other cases. If you look, for example,

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00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 4: to the civil case brought by the New York Attorney

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00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 4: General where our Latitia James was making comments outside of

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00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 4: the courtroom each day of the trial. That was something

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00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 4: that really sort of elevated the rhetoric. We did not

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00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 4: see that going on here at all. The prosecutors tried

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00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 4: their case in the courtroom, and the Manhattan DA said

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00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 4: very little or even nothing about the case as it

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00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,479
Speaker 4: was going on. The only statements he made for at

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00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 4: the conclusion after there was a conviction, and even then

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00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 4: those statements were very understated. He simply said, this was

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00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 4: essentially another case, another win for the Manhattan Die's office.

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00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 4: But it was treated the same as any other case

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00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 4: would have been. And at the end of the day,

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Speaker 4: former President Trump, even though he was a former president,

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00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 4: even though this was historic, even though this was unprecedented,

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00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 4: even though it's leading up to an election, according to

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00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 4: the Manhattan DA, this case was treated just like anybody else.

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Speaker 3: So many firsts with this prosecution. Thanks so much for

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Speaker 3: your insights, Bob. That's former federal prosecutor Robert Mints of

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Speaker 3: Maccarter and English. And that's it for this edition of

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Speaker 3: the Bloomberg Law Podcast. Remember you can always get the

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00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 3: latest legal news by subscribing and listening to the show

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Speaker 3: on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and at Bloomberg dot com, slash podcast,

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Speaker 3: slash Law.

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Speaker 1: I'm June Grosso and this is Bloomberg