WEBVTT - Trial Over Tupac Shakur's Murder, 30 Years Later 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:07.560 This is Bloomberg Law with June Grosseol from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:15.440 Chebaka's gun down in a drive by shooting from a 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.160 white Catalan in an act of revenge. 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:24.079 Tupac Shakur is a cultural icon, considered one of the 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:29.440 most influential and versatile rappers of all times. Despite dying 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:32.400 at the age of twenty five in a drive by 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:36.680 shooting in Las Vegas in nineteen ninety six, his murder 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:40.479 was considered one of the biggest unsolved cases of our time, 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:45.360 and now three decades later, Dwayne Keefe d Davis is 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:50.839 on trial for orchestrating Shakur's murder. Here's how prosecutor Banupa 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:52.000 Lal described it. 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:54.000 Dwayne Davis did. 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:57.520 Not hold the true but what he did do was 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:03.160 planned the retaliation for the beating of his nephew. You 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:07.600 will learn that Dwayne Davis got the gun. You will 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:11.560 learn that he got into a white Cadillac. You will 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:17.959 learn what the opportunity presented itself for retribution. Dwayne Davis 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:21.920 made sure that the shooters armed and read. 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:23.920 To execute their way. 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:28.520 The strongest evidence in the prosecution's case appears to be 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:33.280 Davis's own words. For years the former gang leader, actually 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:37.920 boasted about his involvement in shooting Shakur, laying out the 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:42.800 details in multiple interviews with police and the FBI, then 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:46.040 on the pages of a memoir in twenty nineteen, and 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:51.360 in media interviews. But in an unusual posture, the defense attorney, 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:55.160 Michael Senfitt told the jurors his client was not to 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:55.880 be believed. 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.200 Just look at the actual facts. What facts do you 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:03.360 have for any of what keped said? Eddy's interviews are 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:03.880 in the book. 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:07.640 But Suge Knight, who was in the car with Shakur 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:10.640 when he was shot, thinks Davis will have a hard 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.520 time convincing a jury. As he told ABC News in 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:16.360 an interview from prison. 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.880 Everything he's said he talked about, he every tone only 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:23.400 seth say what are you going to do? He raised 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:25.280 Arto recording through the interviews he did. 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:29.240 The sixty three year old Davis faces life in prison 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:32.400 if he's convicted of the murder. My guest is former 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:37.160 federal prosecutor Nima Romani, President and co founder of West 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:41.080 Coast Trial Lawyers. Nima start with the challenges of trying 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:44.400 this thirty year old case where most of the people 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:46.560 who were involved are no longer alive. 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:50.640 It's very difficult to prosecute a case thirty years later, 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:54.880 especially because everyone who is in Kiefi D's vehicle is dead, 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:58.480 many of them for gang related reasons. Really, the only 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:01.840 percipient witness that we know so far as Shuld Knight, 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:05.120 who of course was driving Tupac's vehicle. 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:08.959 But I think it's unlikely that he's. 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:11.799 Going to testify in this case and identify either the 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.520 shooter or even put Davis in the vehicle. 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:17.720 The other issue is Tupac himself. 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:20.000 The testimony that came out on the first day of 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:25.480 trial was that he refused to snitch and identify the shooter, 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:28.360 saying that he would take care of it himself. Of course, 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:31.079 he's succumbed to his injuries at the hospital and was 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:32.160 unable to do so. 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:36.200 Does it seem like the best evidence the prosecution has 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:43.800 is Keefyd's own words, because he bragged about being involved 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:47.280 in the killing many times over the years and wrote 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:48.920 a memoir to that effect. 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.800 I've never covered a case like this that's based almost 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:58.200 entirely on the defense's own words. The opening statements were surrealed, 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:03.440 you have the prosecution calling Davis a criminal mastermind, the 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:06.840 shot caller of this gang. And then you have the 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:09.680 defense on the other hand, trying to undermine their client's 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:13.200 own credibility. They said he was full of crap. They 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:17.600 said this was all bs. They essentially were arguing that he's. 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:19.200 A fool who was. 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:22.280 Bragging to make himselves seem more important. 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:25.400 Gain street cred in the gang culture, and to sell books. 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:27.360 I've never seen anything like it. 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.120 And at this point, the defense is claiming that there's 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:36.000 no evidence that Davis was even in Las Vegas that night. 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:38.400 This was a really important point. 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:42.279 So Davis has said that he wasn't even in Vegas 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:46.679 in interviews he's done from jail with local media outlets 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:50.080 in Vegas. But during opening statements, the defense said that 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:54.200 Davis lied about being ringside or close to it in 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:55.279 the Mike Tyson fight. 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:57.119 He wasn't even there. He wasn't at the fight. 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:03.080 He wasn't in the city, which would be absolutely devastating 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:04.400 to the prosecution's case. 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:05.279 If that's true. 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:10.640 They need witnesses to at least put him in Vegas 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:13.880 and Clark County, otherwise they're going to have significant problems. 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:18.440 He did many interviews over the years with the FBI, 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:23.200 with Las Vegas Police, with LA Police, where he again 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.080 boasted about his involvement in this shooting. I mean back 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:28.920 to I think nineteen ninety eight. He talked to the 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:32.360 FBI first, So I mean, is the jury going to 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:34.800 be asking so if he talked to them all these times, 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:40.240 why wasn't anything done, why did it take until twenty 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:43.039 twenty three to indict him. 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.840 That's one of the best arguments the defense has. They're 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:51.560 arguing that even LAPD, even the FBI, they don't believe Davis. 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:54.000 That's why they didn't charge him. And you're right, we're 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:56.680 talking about going back to I think nineteen ninety seven 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:01.760 was his first interview with LAPD after Biggie Smalls was 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:05.440 killed outside the Peterson Auto Museum in Los Angeles. Of course, 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:09.160 there's the infamous two thousand and eight interview with the 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:13.479 Federal Task Force that became the issue of much litigation. 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:17.960 He was given immunity. The prosecution argued that it was 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:23.120 just use immunity. It didn't bind other jurisdictions, including Nevada. 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:27.040 This was litigated all the way to the Nevada Supreme Court, 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.480 where the defense argued that it was transactional immunity, he 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:34.000 couldn't be prosecuted at all. Ultimately, the judge agreed with 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:40.000 the prosecution that one jurisdiction cannot contractually bind another. And 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:43.120 I think that two thousand and eight interview, as well 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:46.000 as the twenty nineteen memoir, I think those are the 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:50.120 most damning pieces of evidence for Davis and the defense. 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:52.960 What do you think about the defense saying, oh, he 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:56.560 was bragging in an interviews, Davis has said, you know, 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.839 he was trying to make some money off this, so only. 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:02.400 Pause, Well, the prosecution is going to need to corroborate 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:07.960 these admissions or confessions with some independent evidence. It's gonna 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:11.320 be very hard when you have the defendant now arguing 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:13.800 that he's trying to sell books and seem more important. 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.400 And ultimately, I think at a minimum, they got to 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:19.880 put them in the vehicle, and the question is do 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:23.160 they have the witnesses to do so. Their witnesses are 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:25.520 going to testify about this white Cadillac that pulled up 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:29.160 next to a BMW. But the challenge you, like you said, 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:34.320 is all the precipient witnesses to the shooting, they're all dead. 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.520 They can't testify, And of course, under the rules of 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:42.040 hearsay and the confrontation clause and the Constitution, and accused 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:43.800 has the right to cross examine his accuser. 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:47.400 Also, they don't have the gun, they don't have the car. 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.680 I don't know if they have any physical evidence at all. 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:52.360 That's the concern. 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:54.760 You're normally in a murder case, you're gonna have ballistics, 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:57.480 you're gonna have DNA, you're gonna have fingerprints of any 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:02.600 of that sell side evidence. So you're relying on these admissions. 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:05.920 So obviously there's a potential motive. I think we're going 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:10.000 to hear a lot of testimony about the beef between 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:15.720 these gangs. And one other interesting wrinkle is that that 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:18.160 may be helpful for the defense is that Davis previously 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.280 said that Shanda Di Combs offered him a million dollars 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:26.160 to kill Tupac. Now, of course Combs is denying that. 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:29.640 But if that particular and comes isn't going to come 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:32.080 anywhere near this trial. Like Shug Knight, he has his 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:35.760 own legal problems. But if that statement is also untrue, 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.120 it sort of leads to the conclusion that this is 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:44.840 all just a complete fabrication by someone that had nothing 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:48.760 to do with it. That's why that independent, corroborating evidence 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:50.160 is going to be critical for the state. 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:55.479 So basically you just can't believe anything that Davis says. 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:56.960 Well, that's the point. 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:00.720 The more elaborate the lies and the Combe part being 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.760 one of them, the better it is for the defense. Again, 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:08.520 it's really bizarre that they're just trying to undermine their 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:12.560 own client's credibility. I've never seen anything like this in 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.480 any case I've ever covered. So the more lies there are, 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:17.920 and the bigger those lies, the better it is for 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:18.480 the defense. 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:24.080 The defense attorneys also pointing to missing documents in the 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:30.680 original investigation, detectives work as being biased, sloppy, and incompetent 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.679 and even you know, some corruption there. I mean, that's 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:37.640 an argument that we've heard many, many times before. 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:40.679 That's the challenge when you have these types of cases. 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:44.240 Because I live and work in Los Angeles, and I 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:48.200 was here in the nineties, and obviously this is not 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:51.880 a Los Angeles case, but there's a perception or there was, 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:54.319 that LAPD was corrupted. 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:54.760 During that time. 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:59.800 Rampart, Rodney King, the failure to ever arrest anyone for 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:02.760 the Tupac or Biggie murders. There are a lot of 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:07.000 people who believe that law enforcement were complicit. It was 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:09.440 bad boy. So the challenge is when you have a 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:10.400 thirty year old case. 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:11.440 I'm not saying. 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:16.360 Everyone is of age to remember when Tupac was killed, 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:22.040 but some of these jurors have very strong, preconceived notions 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:25.280 as to who was responsible for Tupac's death. 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:26.800 That becomes a challenge. 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.760 And you know, there are other cases as well where 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:32.120 this has been an issue. I think a recent example 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:35.120 not a murder case, but the fire case here in 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.760 Los Angeles where I live. Jonathan Render connect He was 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:41.160 charged for arson, but that was after many, many months 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:44.880 when people believe that the LA Fire Department, the LA 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:47.880 Department of Water and Power, mayor Karen Bass, mother Nature, 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:52.160 they're all responsible for the devastating Malibu and Palisades fire. 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:57.120 Then the US Attorney's office charges this arsonist and ultimately 0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:59.960 the jury hung tend to in favor of a quick 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:04.080 and one of the jurors that spoke out and said, no, 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:04.960 this wasn't his fault. 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:06.160 He's being scapegoaded. 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:08.560 So I think the defense has an argument here that 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:11.439 it was law enforcement that failed to do their job. 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:13.240 And by the way, this is not the defense lawyers 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:17.319 argue in almost every case, right, a poor, sloppy investigation 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:20.160 and the fact that it took thirty years to bring 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:24.080 any criminal charges against one of or actually who I 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.880 believe is the greatest rapper of all time being murdered 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:28.480 does play into that argument. 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.600 Stay with me. Coming up next on the Bloomberg Law Show, 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:36.560 I'll continue this conversation with former federal prosecutor Nima Romani. 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:39.920 What's the likelihood that the defendant might take the stand? 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:47.199 This is Bloomberg. Fans of the late rapper Tupac Shakourt 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:51.600 stood outside the Las Vegas courthouse as a trial thirty 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:55.600 years in the making started in a courtroom where Dwayne 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:59.800 KEEFD Davis is accused of Shakur's murder in a drive 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:04.679 shooting in nineteen ninety six. Some fans, like Derek Lee 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:08.480 Stanton Junior, say they're prepared to stick it out as 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:10.160 long as the trial lasts. 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.600 It's more important than ever right now to even be 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:16.080 having this conversation be brought up, for everybody to be 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:19.320 focusing on this, and to even want to find suggestice 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:20.280 for Tucrose Court. 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:24.640 I've been talking to former federal prosecutor Nima Romani, president 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:29.480 of West Coast Trial Lawyers. Tubac remains a cultural icon. 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:33.000 He's considered by many, and I guess you to be 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:36.880 one of the most influential and versatile rappers of all time. 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:42.600 Fans of Tubac are standing outside the courthouse. How does 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:45.760 that play, if at all, into the way the jury 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:47.080 considers the case. 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:51.240 I think it helps the prosecution because to the extent 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:55.880 that you have a beloved victim, jurors are don't want 0:12:55.880 --> 0:13:00.760 to hold someone anyone responsible. Obviously, you know of cases 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:03.760 where and again I don't condone any type of violence, 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:06.120 but if you're looking at a very different type of 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:11.480 case would be Luigimanngoni because health insurance is so unpopular 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:15.640 that that's a challenge for the prosecution in that case 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:18.560 and certainly a benefit to the defense. 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:18.800 Now. 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.640 I don't, of course condone violence for any reason, but 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.320 when your victim is very well liked, I think that's 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.760 an advantage for the prosecution because the jurors are going 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:28.120 to want to hold someone responsible. 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.880 The trials expected to last between four to six weeks, 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:36.560 and prosecutors are expected to call thirty five to forty 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:40.240 five witnesses. We've discussed how no one who was in 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:45.320 the car, except allegedly for the defendant, is still alive. 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:49.680 Shug Knight, who's serving time in prison for another crime, 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:54.119 has said he doesn't want to testify. So besides retired 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:57.760 police officers and detectives and perhaps some people who were 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:01.600 at the hotel or the fight, who else do you 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:03.920 think is on the prosecution's witness list. 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.040 I think they're not going to be your witnesses in 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.960 the traditional sense, and that they didn't actually perceive the murder. 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:11.560 I think we're going to see a lot of people 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:16.800 talk about this feud, you know, this history, the obviously 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:21.280 the fight at the MGM, basically setting the stage and 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:24.840 really telling a story of why Davis would be motivated 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:30.520 to shoot and kill or orchestrate the murder of Tupac Shakur. 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:32.840 So I expect there to be a lot of witnesses 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:36.520 telling that story, But as far as precipient witnesses, you're right, 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:38.920 soon I don't think there are many, if any. 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:39.040 At all. 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:42.480 Do you think it'll end up being does the jury 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:46.520 believe what Davis said before and through the years, or 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:48.880 do they believe what he's saying now and he's been 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.200 saying only since he was arrested. 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:57.520 I think it's a fascinating case because it's really based 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.400 on what Davis has said. Now, if you're the p execution, 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:02.840 I think you get there in a couple ways. One, 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:06.200 you have to show that Davis's story has been consistent 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:10.000 over the years, over the past almost thirty years now. 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:12.480 If the story is consistent, that's helpful. 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:17.880 There's inconsistencies because when people lie, they can obviously often 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:21.560 change their stories over time, especially after many years. The 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:24.640 second is that corroboration I talked about. I mean, they 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.080 need something. If they're just hanging their hat on the 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:32.560 confessions alone, I think that's challenging, especially because, like the 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:37.280 defense argued, no one else has filed charges notwithstanding these confessions. 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:41.440 The defense blinds to call just a handful of witnesses. 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.800 The defense attorney hasn't said whether the defendant will take 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:49.480 the stand in his own defense if he testifies. Are 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.160 the jurors supposed to believe him now, supposed to believe 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:52.640 him before? 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:53.520 Yeah? 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:57.280 I think if I'm the defense, I do not under 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:01.560 any circumstances put Davis on the stand, someone that is 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.480 going to be completely destroyed on across examination. Maybe you 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:07.960 want him to be destroyed because you want him to 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.680 just look so incompetent. 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:12.320 You want him to be a bumbling fool. 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.920 So maybe it would be a mad genius move, but 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:21.680 it's very, very risky for this type of defendant. He's 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:24.800 obviously opened his mouth many many times when he should 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:27.280 not have. Even when he was in jail, he was 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:30.800 talking to reporters, right. It's really unheard of unless there's 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.840 a specific pr or other reasons while there's a pending 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:37.720 criminal case for a defendant to talk to reporters. 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:38.800 I mean, it certainly happens. 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.480 We've seen it, and I believe with Scott Peterson and 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:46.640 others who have a certain narcissism to them. But it 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.680 is risky, and if I were the defense here, I 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:53.280 would kind of stick with with what I got, which 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:57.120 is really reasonable doubt because the prosecution is at a 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.440 disadvantage because so much time has passed and most of 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:00.440 the witnesses are dead. 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:04.840 A jury of sixteen people, six man and ten women 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:09.440 was seated, so four are alternates. Potential jurors were questioned 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.840 about their knowledge of gang's guns, hip hop music, and 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:17.560 memories of the nineteen nineties music scene. Among the jurors, 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.280 you have a self help guru who once had a 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:25.680 shoplifting habit, a motorcycle riding, retired gemologist who says she'd 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.240 never heard of Tupac but doesn't have a problem with 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:30.560 gang culture, and a maleman who used to listen to 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:33.359 Tupac's music back in the nineties. So you appear to 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:35.200 have a very diverse jury there. 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:39.119 I say this respectfully. I am licensed in Nevada. We 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.960 have an office in Las Vegas. But Vegas can have 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:47.520 some interesting folks that travel through there, so I'm not 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:50.760 surprised there's a diverse cast of characters. 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:52.600 Look, I always say it's twelve men and. 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:54.800 Women who can't get out of jury duty, right, So 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.560 I'm not surprised you have all types on that panel. 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:01.879 Here. He's charged with murder with a deadly weapon with 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:05.600 the intent to promote, further or assist a criminal gang. 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:08.600 Do you think the jurors will have any problem with 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:13.080 the fact that the prosecution says that the defendant himself 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:14.400 didn't pull the trigger. 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:15.760 I don't think so. 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.040 I think the jury instructions are pretty clear as well 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:20.960 established that you can be convicted as a co conspirator, 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:24.159 you can be convicted as an accomplice. The classic law 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:27.320 school example is, you know there's a murderer and you're 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:30.119 driving the getaway car. You don't have to pull the 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:35.080 trigger to be guilty of murder under those circumstances as 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.960 an accomplice. And in this particular case, at least, the 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:42.040 prosecution is a legend that Davis got the gun and 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.399 they're pretty specific as to who he got it from. 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:49.200 He passed it to someone in the backseat only because 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:51.879 he was to the right of tupacs car in the 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:55.399 front passenger seat. And his story is that had he 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:57.359 been on the other side and had a clear shot, 0:18:57.359 --> 0:18:59.760 he would have taken it himself. So that's pretty damaging 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:04.919 for the defense. He passed the firearm to someone in 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.520 the back who didn't or was unable to take the shot, 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:12.840 and the other backseat passenger did so under those circumstances, that's. 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:15.800 Murder under the law. If the jurors believed that story. 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.760 That story, you know, as you're reciting it, does have 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:23.399 a lot of details that make it seem credible. I 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:25.920 have to say, you know, for a jury, because it's 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:28.399 not just I gave someone the gun and they know 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:31.240 it's I wasn't on the right side, or I would 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:33.240 have shot him and then I came to someone in 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:37.520 the front. And also he talks about Tupac actually waving 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:39.919 to fans or whatever he said, if they wouldn't have 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:41.800 known that he was in the car, if he hadn't 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:44.399 done that. So, I mean there are some details. 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:46.879 Yeah, it was fastin. I mean, yeah, there are very 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:47.800 specific details. 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:51.840 And what's sort of fascinating is a Tupac's car was 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:54.520 apparently pulled over about ten minutes before he was shot 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:58.760 because I got no plates. So I'm obviously an important 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:00.560 part of the story. But yeah, like you said, if 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:05.760 the story is precise, if it's consistent, if it's corroborated, 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:07.880 I think the prosecution can get there. 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:11.800 But if it's just a general story. 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.560 About a hip hop feud, it's gonna be hard to 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:15.640 get twelve out of twelve. 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:18.639 The straw was thirty years in the making. We'll have 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:22.040 to see if it lives up to the expectations that 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:23.400 many people have for it. 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:27.440 I am just really excited to be covering this one. 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:29.480 Hopefully the jury gets it right. 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:32.680 But really the fact that there have been no charges 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:36.840 in two of these cold cases for decades, it's really 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:43.080 a head scratcher and really plays into the perception, right 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:48.120 or wrong, that law enforcement is corrupt and that they 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:52.400 either don't take these cases seriously at best, or we're 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:55.639 complicit somehow at worst. So I'm glad the case is 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:58.280 moving forward, excited to see what the coming days and 0:20:58.359 --> 0:20:59.880 weeks show in terms of the test. 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:04.240 It's always great to get your Insightsnema. That's Nima Romani, 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:11.240 president and co founder of West Coast Trial Lawyers. A 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:14.720 federal judge in Los Angeles signaled she's likely to issue 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:19.880 a preliminary injunction ordering ICE to stop making warrantless arrests 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:23.960 unless agents first determine that a person is a flight risk. 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:27.800 That would force ICE agents to fundamentally change the way 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:31.560 they've been conducting the sweeps at the heart of President 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:36.560 Trump's massive deportation campaign. Joining me is an expert in 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:40.359 immigration law, Leon Fresco, a partner at Hollanda Knight. He 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:43.680 was the head of the Justice Department's Office of Immigration 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:48.359 Litigation during the Obama administration. Leon, is this the same 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:51.520 case that went up to the Supreme Court at one point. 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:54.840 So this case, I've had a lot of iteration. So 0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:59.480 it started in June of twenty twenty five with the 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:03.240 word of go to the home depot and start grabbing people. 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:05.520 We want to get to three thousand arrests a day. 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:09.360 And there was a tro at, a preliminary injunction back 0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:12.800 then that had to do with racial profiling and said 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:17.480 you need to have a warrant in order to arrest 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:20.840 people if you were doing these roving ice operations. 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:21.600 You couldn't just do that. 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:23.800 You had to have a list of people that you 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:26.600 knew were in undocumented status and you had to pick 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:26.959 them up. 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:29.160 And that was for all of Los Angeles County. 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:32.160 And what happened was this is where the Kavanaugh stops 0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:34.760 was created. That ended up going all the way to 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:38.480 the Supreme Court. And just as Kavanaugh said, no, no, no, 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:42.760 you can have warrantless arrests here because you can see 0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:46.840 certain things about people that are common toward the fact 0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:50.600 pattern of being undocumented where they're being apprehended, Are they 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:51.720 speaking a different. 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:53.240