1 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to Why Not Me? Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide? 2 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: Hosted by Tony Mantor, broadcasting from the heart of Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. 3 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: Join us as our guests share their raw, powerful stories. 4 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: Some will spark laughter, others who will move you to tears. 5 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: These real life journeys inspire, connect, and remind you that 6 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: you're never alone. We're igniting a global movement to empower 7 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: everyone to make a lasting difference by fostering deep awareness, 8 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 1: unwavering acceptance, and profound understanding of autism and mental health. 9 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: Tune in, be inspired, and join us in transforming the 10 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: world one story at a time. Hi, I'm Tony Mantur. 11 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to Why Not Me? Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide. 12 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: Today's guest is John A. King, a trauma recovery advocate, author, speaker, 13 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: and survivor who has dedicated his life to helping others 14 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,839 Speaker 1: turn pain into purpose. What makes his story so compelling 15 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,279 Speaker 1: isn't just the work he does, It's the journey he's lived. 16 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: Drawing from his own experiences, he now equips others with 17 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: tools for healing, resilience, and reclaiming identity beyond trauma. His 18 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: mission is simple but profound, to give survivors a voice 19 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: and help them step into strength. He has a great 20 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: journey to tell us. So before we dive into our episode, 21 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: we'll be back with an uninterrupted show right after. A 22 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: word from our sponsors. Thanks for coming on. 23 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 2: Thanks man, Thank you very much. I love you work. 24 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: Oh, thanks so much. I really appreciate that. 25 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 2: Oh, it was really touched by your work with the 26 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 2: autistic community. It's a diagnosis I've come through just recently. 27 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 2: Oh really, I mean recently recently, the last couple of months. 28 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 2: It was something I've masked my entire life, and it 29 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 2: has brought such clarity and insight and being incredibly helpful 30 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 2: for me. 31 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: That's good to hear your diagnosis has helped you. Can 32 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: you give us a little insight on your past and 33 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: what you're doing now. 34 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 2: I was trafficked and abused as a kid. I had 35 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 2: recall of that back in our wit. So out of 36 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: that came complex post traumatic stress disorder. And I look 37 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 2: back and I see authenticity has always been a challenge 38 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: to me. I had to be an extremely good liar 39 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 2: as a child to survive. So I bring that into 40 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 2: this continual masking behavior and presenting something that was very 41 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 2: acceptable to people. So you bring it forward into life, 42 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 2: and I have these implosion when I get recall of 43 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: what happened to me, So the whole walls come off, 44 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 2: and the last fifteen to sixteen years have been this 45 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 2: process of getting well, getting the hands around what I've 46 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 2: experienced and what I faced on a daily basis, and 47 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 2: out the other side of that. Very passionately involved in 48 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 2: any human trafficking, neurodiversity and trauma recovery. So we provisioned 49 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 2: for the vision. We run some of my tea companies 50 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 2: and we do some stuff, and all of that money 51 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 2: goes towards impacting and helping communities, very similar to the 52 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 2: sort of ethos you have towards the communities you're involved. 53 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,119 Speaker 1: Can you give us a little insight on the steps 54 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: that you have taken so that you could heal and 55 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: how that has helped you moving forward? 56 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 2: Oh? Thank you. I read a lot of books. When 57 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 2: I first had recall. There was nothing available as a resource, 58 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 2: particularly to a man who'd been sexually abused and the 59 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,119 Speaker 2: predators were female, And twenty years ago we weren't really 60 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 2: even talking about PTSD or complex post traumatic stress. So 61 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: I read everything. I went back to the Napolygonic Wars 62 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 2: when it talked about battle Heart, then into the Civil War, 63 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 2: and then up through World War Two, and I read 64 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 2: all that material and I'd started to digest and condense it, 65 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: and I really said, and then diagram and I identify 66 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 2: the twenty percent of things the middle intersection that would 67 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 2: impact eighty percent of my life Perretti's principle, and I 68 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 2: started to actively try and work on those twenty percent. 69 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: So over time, as I've gone on, I've constantly been 70 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: refining that and working on that to get to a 71 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: place where you know, life is life is joyous, so 72 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 2: you know my child would be horrendous. And I'm in 73 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 2: a space where I'm really I wake up every day, 74 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 2: I'm very, very happy to be wirried. And it wasn't 75 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 2: like that for a long long time. 76 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 1: You often talk about trauma as something that lives in 77 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: the body, not just the mind. What does that mean 78 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: in real, everyday terms for someone that may be listening 79 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: to our podcast right now. 80 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 2: Sure what it could manifest as hypertension, It could manifest 81 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 2: as an inability to sleep, It manifest as constantly being 82 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 2: on full alert and inability to relax, unable to just 83 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 2: walk into a social environment and enjoy yourself because your 84 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 2: body is always in this state of continual fight, and 85 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 2: those stresses, adrenal stress, all those sorts of things are 86 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: a constant thing you have to learn to manage over 87 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 2: time in order to not only have a sustainable quality 88 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: of life, but for longevity, because all of those things 89 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 2: I've listed are things with terminal consequences if you don't 90 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: manage them appropriately. So I think that's part of it 91 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 2: is understanding the mind body connection. I believe we are body, mind, 92 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 2: and spirit. We've got these three aspects of who we 93 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 2: are as human beings, and if we're not taking time 94 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 2: to develop each of those, then there's a wholeness of 95 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 2: life that we're missing out on. 96 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: What are some of the most effective ways people can 97 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: either seek out or gather information from whatever sources may 98 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: be available, and then apply what they learn in meaningful 99 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: ways to improve their lives and moving forward. 100 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 2: There's some simple things you can do is manage yourself, 101 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,799 Speaker 2: and sometimes that can be managing your time and your environment. 102 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 2: Saying no to things doesn't make you impolite, it makes 103 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 2: you the captain of your own shit. Sometimes there's environments 104 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 2: that I can go into and there's environments that I 105 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 2: can't go into. So part of that nuance is is 106 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 2: it best for me and my family if I'm not 107 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 2: in a situation where I'm hip of vigilant, So therefore, 108 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 2: let's not go into that restaurant or let's not go 109 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 2: to that event. So part of that is managing that. 110 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 2: And then the other issue is self discipline, you know, 111 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 2: getting up at the same time every day and going 112 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 2: to bed at the same time every day, Constantly working out, 113 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,679 Speaker 2: you know, three to five times a week, making sure 114 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 2: that you don't eat red food, coloring number five, you know, 115 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: little things like that, and that it's the micro management 116 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 2: and the understanding that trauma, like any other neurodiverse factor, 117 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 2: is not going to go away. It's a lifetime of 118 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 2: managing it, you know, depending on this trauma and this 119 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 2: trauma you know, big t, little tea, but you know, 120 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 2: it's a lifetime of committing to managing it to be 121 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 2: a better person. 122 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: You just mentioned you were recently diagnosed artistic just in 123 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: the past few months. You to go that route to 124 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: get a diagnosis so you could see what it could 125 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: actually be. 126 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 2: Man great question, and I've never had to answer that 127 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 2: question in my life. So let me stumble around in 128 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 2: here with I'd gotten to a point in my recovery 129 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 2: where I had done as much as I believe I 130 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 2: could have, and yet there was still things that I 131 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 2: didn't understand, and there were reasons I was hesitant that 132 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 2: didn't make sense anymore. And I started to ask questions 133 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 2: because there have been times that people have suggested back 134 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 2: in the day when we're on the spectrum or off 135 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: the spectrum, and people have suggested, look, you need to 136 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 2: sit with someone and have a conversation about, you know, 137 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 2: possibly being autistic high functioning autistic. They were particularly talking 138 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 2: about masking autistic behavior for social acceptance. So we started, 139 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: my wife and I started to unpack that. And you know, 140 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 2: we went through a stage of talking to a few people, 141 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 2: you do the online thing at three am in the morning, 142 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 2: and then it came down to it, I want to 143 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 2: start to really understand this and talk to some people 144 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 2: about it. And it did. It was very high on 145 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 2: the mask score. I think it's one hundred and seventy four, 146 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 2: and it was one hundred and forty seven. And so 147 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 2: we started to unpack that as a couple. What it 148 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 2: did was make sense to me. Again, back to ven diagram, 149 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 2: is there's a series of behavior that had been put 150 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 2: off and said, look, this is one thing. And for me, 151 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 2: it wasn't an excuse for behavior. It was a reason 152 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 2: for behavior, because I'm the sort of person if I 153 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 2: understand something, then I can go about managing it and 154 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 2: making it work for me. Really, that's what it's been for. 155 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 2: As I said, Tony, I'm only fresh on this aspect 156 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 2: of the journey. It's amazing. But once you get inside 157 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 2: and tools you can realize you go, ah, crap, I've 158 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 2: been doing that for sixty years. Now, I understand why 159 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 2: it's like that. 160 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: Now you just mentioned the ven diagram. There's many people 161 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: out there that might not know what it is. Can 162 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: you expand and explain a little bit about it and 163 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: how you used it to help you in what you 164 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:55,079 Speaker 1: was going through in your journey. 165 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 2: So what it did for me was give me Okay. 166 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 2: So we've got an internal measure, and we've got an 167 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 2: internal set of feelings, and those internal set of feelings 168 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 2: and measures are often imposed on us. We spend a 169 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 2: lot of our life living from the outside in. We're 170 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 2: supposed to behave this way, do this thing, act this way, 171 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 2: believe this, or from the outside in. It comes a 172 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 2: point in our life where we have to live from 173 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 2: the inside out. So that's very important in a recovery process. 174 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 2: Is at authenticity very important. So what this did for 175 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 2: me was make me realize that there was whole aspects 176 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 2: of my life that I was living and behaving in 177 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 2: such a way because it was a construct to how 178 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 2: I thought people perceived me or what they wanted from 179 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,439 Speaker 2: me to accept me. And I've realized that for most 180 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 2: of my life, I've lived in such a manner as 181 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,839 Speaker 2: to please others and put themities at the cost of 182 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 2: myself and the things that were very difficult. So in 183 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 2: order for me to go into a social environment make 184 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 2: sure everybody else is comfortable cost me a lot personally. 185 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 2: So what this measurement did was helped me identify those 186 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 2: things and put a handle around those things and go okay. 187 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 2: So I'm obviously masking a series of behaviors to make 188 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 2: other people comfortable, but that's causing me to be internally stressed. 189 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 2: That's caught in cortisol dumps. That's why I can't sleep 190 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 2: at night. That's another reason why I have nightmares. A 191 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 2: nightmares aren't only about what happened to me in my past. 192 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 2: It's about the concerns about the social interaction I have tomorrow. 193 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 2: So what it did was just help me understand this 194 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 2: is why I'm behaving the way that I'm behaving, as again, 195 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 2: a reason, not an excuse. 196 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: Okay, As we know, healing and recovery is not linear. 197 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: So let's say you have a bad day. What does 198 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: a bad day look like after years of healing? And 199 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 1: how do you personally move through a bad day if 200 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 1: you should have one? Now, good question. 201 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 2: So had I had something happened last week? So let's see. 202 00:10:57,760 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm packing it at the moment, so this 203 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 2: could be mess so it may not be a linear 204 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 2: answer for you. Okay, So I had something happen and 205 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 2: I sent an email. And normally when you send an 206 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 2: email and someone doesn't like that email or they respond, 207 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 2: it was they were on a list that I run 208 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,079 Speaker 2: because we reach out to a lot of people. They 209 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 2: were incredibly rude and insulting and it hurnt on a 210 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 2: very deep level. So because and I would have just 211 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 2: at one stag said that's because I'm just oversensitive but 212 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 2: now I understand it's because I'm so desperate to be accepted, wanted, 213 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 2: and seen as normal for whatever that phrase means, that 214 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 2: it really kicked me into a spiral. So I've spent 215 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 2: this whole week looking at that emotion, going Okay, there's 216 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 2: some of this I can own, and I apologize to 217 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 2: the person and so I, you know, I didn't mean 218 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 2: to upset you by you getting on an email list, 219 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 2: but after that response, the person came back incredibly harsh again. 220 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 2: So now what I'm trying to do is sit with 221 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 2: these emotions and I have to see this person tomorrow 222 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 2: and eye suit with these emotions going, I'm just not 223 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:07,439 Speaker 2: going to own these feelings. These feelings are coming outside 224 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 2: of me. It's really not because of anything I've done. 225 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 2: So I'm wrestling with understanding that. So I'm in the 226 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 2: process of just sitting with it, unpacking it, owning my part, 227 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 2: and once I've owned that part, then just developing the 228 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 2: skill to put the rest to one side, which is 229 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 2: a very very difficult thing, as you would know. Just 230 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 2: putting it to one side and saying that's not my responsibility. 231 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: That is tough because no matter what, you still have 232 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: that emotion attached to it. Yeah, it's not like you're 233 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: just putting it on a shelf like you would an 234 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: old toy and walking away and forgetting about it. It's 235 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: still going to be in your memory. 236 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 2: Yes, that comes into some of the neuroplasticity things I've 237 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 2: worked with. Is a the moment you say stop to 238 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 2: a feeling or a word in your mind that comes up. 239 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 2: Negative thinking comes up again and again, and often people 240 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 2: just dwell in that space. But the moment you say 241 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 2: stop to that voice, that idea, or that feeling, you're 242 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 2: actually starting to rewire a whole series of things. Again, 243 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 2: So neuroplasticity is a beautiful thing. You say stop enough times, 244 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 2: and at some point your brain will develop a new 245 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 2: way to work within that environment. So for me, when 246 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 2: I saw this thing come at me for the first 247 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 2: time in my life, I recognize it for what it is. 248 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 2: So I understand, based on neurosilence, that I'm actually in 249 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 2: the midst of this uncomfortable process of developing a whole 250 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 2: new way to think about it, program myself and respond 251 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 2: to things. So the feeling, I now see this as 252 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 2: a very good thing, this uncomfortable feeling. I've been able 253 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 2: to rebrand it as this is process and change, and 254 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 2: there's going to come a time very soon with these 255 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 2: sorts of things won't ever have that impact on me again. 256 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, your work is very personal. You've gone through 257 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: many things in your life. You have definitely had to heal. 258 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 1: What moment in your life made you realize you just 259 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: didn't want to heal, but you wanted to help others heal, 260 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: just like you have. 261 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 2: I do a lot of podcasts. This is probably my 262 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 2: most enjoyable one. You're a tremendous interview. 263 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: Thank you, Oh thanks, I really appreciate it. 264 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 2: There were two times. There were fifteen years apart, fifteen 265 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 2: sixty years, but the first was when I went looking 266 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 2: for support as a man who had been sexually abused 267 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 2: by the females in his world, and there was nothing, 268 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 2: and I tried to go to support groups rape support groups, 269 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 2: and I was told that I was a predator and 270 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 2: not a victim, that I was a pretender, and basically 271 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 2: this horrible vitriolic behavior manifested it. And I came away 272 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 2: from that thinking, Okay, that's just the way of the world. Now, 273 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 2: if I, at any point can get better with living 274 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 2: with this, then I want to do something for someone, 275 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 2: and I wanted to help me in particularly men, because 276 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 2: there's very few advocates for men that I deal with 277 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 2: a lot of news. So that was number one. But 278 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 2: then I spent fifteen years concentrating on me because I 279 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 2: didn't want to be that person that you know, you 280 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 2: get twelve months into recovery from something and all of 281 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 2: a sudden, you're starting a website telling everyone how to 282 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 2: do it, and two years after that you're back on 283 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 2: the bottle. We've all seen those horror stories. It will 284 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 2: be those horror stories too, probably, and then it's really 285 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 2: just recently two years ago, I stopped a turn sixty. 286 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 2: I stopped and I thought, I'm feeling pretty good. I'm 287 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 2: enjoying life. For the first time ever, my feet are 288 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 2: up under me. I was able to go back out 289 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 2: in the workforce because in oh Wait, I lost everything. 290 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 2: I lost my business, my family, and my children. I 291 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 2: lost it all when I got sick, and I felt 292 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 2: like my feet were under me for the first time. 293 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 2: And at that point that's when we started the Phoenix 294 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 2: Collective and we took all this teaching, these fifteen years 295 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 2: and three hundred thousand dollars we've spent on getting well 296 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 2: and we put it into a form where people could 297 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 2: hopefully stand on someone else's shoulders and move forward. So 298 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 2: that we've been developing that over the last two years. 299 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 2: So it really has been that first decision that and 300 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 2: I started writing poetry. If my poetry can help one person, 301 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 2: then that's fantastic. Up to now, when it's a very 302 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 2: focused effort to do something to be helpful and useful 303 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 2: and contribute. 304 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: Now you just brought up something that totally makes sense 305 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: and unfortunately it is part of the world. My question 306 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: is going to be how do you see us changing this? 307 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: A lot of men still feel silent when it comes 308 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: to abuse and trauma. It's the stigma that goes along 309 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: with it. Just like autism has stigma, mental health has stigma. 310 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: These things still have a stigma, which I prefer the 311 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: word perception. It's still attached no matter what. So how 312 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: do you see us changing that? 313 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 2: I think unfortunately with diavol we're at a time in 314 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 2: our nation and many parts of the world where the 315 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 2: ability to critically sink is no longer valued and things 316 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 2: have been placed in small pockets around a genders and 317 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 2: social engineering that are held as opposed to having conversations 318 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 2: and evolving as a species. We're in an unfortunate position 319 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 2: where it's okay to talk about women and girls being 320 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 2: sexually abused or raped towards traffic, but we are not 321 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 2: in the same place when it comes to men, because 322 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 2: we've made that issue of the sexual abuse and trafficking 323 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 2: a gender issue as opposed to a human issue. And 324 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 2: when it comes to things like autism and mental health, 325 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 2: particularly in America, we don't do well as having conversations 326 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 2: about mental health in places in Europe and even in Australia, 327 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 2: conversations about mental health in the workplace, in the community 328 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 2: of commonplace. In America, we seem to still be behind. 329 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 2: We're ahead in so many other things that we're behind. 330 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 2: We don't want to do that. You can't tell someone 331 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 2: that you're autistic and you have a trouble in crowds. 332 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 2: When it comes to getting into a congested airport, you've 333 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 2: got to get a wheelchair. You've got to get a 334 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 2: wheelchair because then I'll put you in a wheelchair, or 335 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 2: you've got to get a walking stick, or you've got 336 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 2: to get emotional support, can or something. I don't know 337 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 2: what it is. It doesn't see. And you know, there's 338 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,959 Speaker 2: a lot of people that unfortunately live in this victim 339 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 2: mindset and they want they want all accommodations for things 340 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 2: that really don't need to be accommodated for. And then 341 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 2: there's the other extreme of people who really do need 342 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 2: some help that've got very little leverage to be able 343 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 2: to ask for that help personally or community. And so 344 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 2: we're caught in that place where people don't seem to 345 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 2: want to have on it. They want to talk a lot, 346 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 2: not have honest conversations. 347 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 1: You just mentioned something I think is very important, and 348 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: that's the victim mentality. Yeah, a lot of victims that 349 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: do survive, they struggle, from what I understand, with identity. 350 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: They often will say, am I broken? Or am I 351 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 1: becoming something? How do we help people reframe that inner narrative, 352 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: because this narrative has to be changed so they can 353 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: feel better about themselves moving forward with their life. 354 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 2: A couple of decisions I made in my journey that 355 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 2: my past would either define me or refine me. I 356 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 2: was always going to have to carry it. Was I 357 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 2: going to be known as John the victim or not? 358 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 2: Would there become a stage in my life where people 359 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 2: would look at me and not know that I was 360 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 2: a victim of anything because I just was. I had 361 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,360 Speaker 2: no handles around this thing. So defining and refining the 362 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 2: second thing is ownership. I found at some point scars 363 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 2: of shame had to turn into medals of honor. I 364 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 2: had to be comfortable enough with what was done to 365 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 2: me as a child to say, hey, look at this, 366 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 2: this is just who I am. Isn't this great? I've 367 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 2: dealt with this. Afflicted or infected. Either things done to 368 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 2: you are going to inflict you or infect you going 369 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 2: to be one of those. So those series of thoughts 370 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 2: came to me when I was about four or five 371 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 2: years into this process, and I realized that I could 372 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 2: never allow myself. Very early on, I recognized that I 373 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 2: could never allow myself to be call myself a victim 374 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 2: of anything, because that was a death sentence. And I 375 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 2: think when people get into the they put it on 376 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 2: their bios, on their social media account, and every time 377 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,239 Speaker 2: when they go there, those words are defining them. And 378 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 2: they even going to support groups. And now this is 379 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,239 Speaker 2: a challenging one because I would encourage everyone to go 380 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 2: to support groups and to get help, but is that 381 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 2: support group nurturing you to a level of wholeness or 382 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 2: is it celebrating your brokenness? And only you can be 383 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 2: big enough to make that determination, because there's a lot 384 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 2: of support groups that you can go to and a 385 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 2: lot of therapists when what they're doing is they're just 386 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 2: actually enabling behavior and keeping you indebted to them on 387 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 2: an ongoing basis. And I don't think that's a very 388 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 2: positive thing to allow yourself to be caught into. 389 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 1: Okay, let's expand on that if we could. If someone 390 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: listening has this inner feeling that they have stuck, they 391 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 1: feel like they've tried everything they can do, what's one 392 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: small but powerful stout. You believe almost anyone, no matter 393 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: what stage they are, can do to help them get 394 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: themselves back on track for their lives. 395 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 2: I've got I've got four things that over these fifteen 396 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 2: years and three hundred thousand dollars, you boil it all down, 397 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 2: it comes down to four things for me. Number one, 398 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 2: be authentic. You know Mission vision values. We teach that, 399 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 2: but it's a reality. It's like, am I being true 400 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 2: to the person that I know? 401 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 1: Now? 402 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 2: Very important? So that's your starting point. The second thing, 403 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 2: and the hardest thing to do is imagine the future 404 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 2: you want to inhabit. What does tomorrow look like for you? 405 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 2: And people say that and say, well, that's a great 406 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 2: fridge magnet. But it's the hardest thing I ever do. 407 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 2: Every day I find it the challenge to imagine a 408 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 2: positive future when all I've ever know it is negativity. 409 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 2: The third thing is then on being who I am. 410 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 2: I'm looking at my future and saying this is who 411 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 2: I want to be, and then allowing that to set 412 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 2: goals for my life, being in a place and big 413 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 2: enough to go you know what, These are really the 414 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 2: things that I want to go after, not what people 415 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 2: are telling me from the outside in, but from me 416 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 2: from then. The third and the final one is to 417 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 2: Sue and tatoo I've got on my arm. Here is 418 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 2: that finish word that means white knuckled courage in the 419 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 2: face of overwhelming odds, Sue. The spirit of Sasue manifests itself. 420 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 2: It's very very hard to define that word, and for 421 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 2: me that means relentless resilience. And so what I find 422 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 2: is that if I'm being true to myself, I've got 423 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 2: an idea of who I want to be. I'm a writer, 424 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 2: and I allow that to set my day in my calendar. 425 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 2: I spend every time every day writing, every day, editing, 426 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 2: every day talking to people, and then I just determine 427 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 2: that I will relentlessly and resiliently pursue those things that 428 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 2: nothing will get in. 429 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: One way, I believe that over the years you've finally 430 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: got to the point of where you created a foundation. 431 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: Is that true? 432 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we did. We founded to give them a 433 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 2: voice foundation. 434 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 1: Can you give us a little information on it? 435 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 2: So give them the voice was simply because there was 436 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 2: a group of people at the time when I started 437 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 2: it that had no voice, and it was men and 438 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 2: boys who had been abused in traffic. And then it 439 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 2: came down to then it moved into people in general 440 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 2: because we were working with a lot of military people, 441 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,719 Speaker 2: tip of the spear pipe Pitter's police law enforcement, and 442 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 2: these people were committing suicide at a horrible rate, and 443 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 2: the majority of those that do that are men. So 444 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 2: again we overlap. And then his last phase of things 445 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 2: has been again giving a voice to people with a 446 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 2: neurodiverse background and an everyday experience. So the aim of 447 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 2: to give them a voice is to be able to 448 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 2: provide tools and opportunity for people to be able to 449 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 2: grow and develop coaching resources in a very accessible manner. 450 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 2: And that's where we came up with the Phoenix Collective. 451 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 2: So it all sits together under this one hub of 452 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 2: working with people who feel they don't have a voice 453 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 2: in order to give them a voice and give them 454 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,959 Speaker 2: the tools so they can live a productive life. 455 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,199 Speaker 1: What's the best way for people to connect with you, 456 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: whether they want to follow your work, reach out, or 457 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: support what you're doing. 458 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 2: If they go to doctor Johnaking dot com, I'll find 459 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 2: a bunch of links on the front page there. You know, 460 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 2: with our material, I don't like subscriptions. Everything is subscription now, 461 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 2: you know, nine dollars, so this lip toys me out there. 462 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 2: So we made it ninety nine dollars for life. But 463 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 2: if they've heard your podcast and they go on it 464 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 2: and they join the Phoenix collevit it's like twenty seven 465 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 2: bucks or something. It's ridiculous, but it's for life. So 466 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 2: you've got fifteen years and three hundred thousand dollars worth 467 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 2: of mental health coaching and support. Twenty seven bucks. It's 468 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 2: the cost of a meal, man. So we're trying to 469 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 2: make it as obtainable for people as we can. So 470 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,120 Speaker 2: they yeah, So I reckon, they go there. I've got 471 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 2: over one hundred videos on YouTube, all that materials in there. 472 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 2: We hold free workshops eight times a year for people 473 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 2: to come. 474 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: To Looking ahead, What does the next chapter of your 475 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: work look like? What kind of legacy do you hope 476 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 1: that it leaves for those that you've worked with and 477 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: future survivors. 478 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 2: When I had recall, I went from John one point 479 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 2: over John two point zero. John one point I was 480 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,400 Speaker 2: very gold driven, determined out there guy John two point 481 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 2: I wanted to write poetry and smoke cigars, and the 482 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 2: two never really got on. I couldn't. We had no 483 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 2: interest in what John point one O was. But now 484 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 2: I'm up to a stage where John three point oho 485 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 2: has turned up and John three point I was going 486 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 2: to spend the next thirty years of his life being 487 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 2: a writer. So for me, I feel like I'm gathering 488 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 2: all this stuff that John two point zero John one 489 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 2: point I went through the John two point I thought, bloody, 490 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 2: how I need to solve this And now John three 491 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 2: point zero gets the benefit from it. So I'm trying 492 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 2: to bookend this material. That's why I came up with 493 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 2: the Phoenix Collective. I want to give all this middle 494 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 2: stuff away to help other people because I want to 495 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 2: go on and write. I want to write about military 496 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,199 Speaker 2: sexual trauma. I want to write about human trafficking. I 497 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 2: want to write, you know, obtainable heroes doing imagineering things 498 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 2: and conquering the universe, because just because it's fun. 499 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's what you have to do. Enjoy your 500 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: life a little bit. Well, this has been great, great information, 501 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: great conversation. I really appreciate you taking the time to 502 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: join me today. 503 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 2: Well, thank you, Tony. My agent has got two books 504 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 2: shopping at the moment with publishers. When I get at 505 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 2: I'm going to hit up a mite and come back 506 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 2: for a virtual book tour. Yeah, come back to Love 507 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 2: to Latch with books on your podcast. 508 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be fun. I think it would be 509 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: great to hear what you're writing and what you're doing 510 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: and just reconnect again. 511 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 2: So yeah, for sure, I appreciate you man. You do 512 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 2: a great job. You've got a great SHD. To love it. 513 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 2: You've got a great SHD. I love your ship. I 514 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 2: like talking to play with good shids. Thank you mate, 515 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 2: bye boy. 516 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've really enjoyed it. Thanks again, thanks for taking 517 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: time out of your busy schedule to listen to our 518 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: show today. We hope you enjoyed it as much as 519 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know someone 520 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: who has a story to share, tell them to contact 521 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 1: us at why NOTM Do World. One last thing, Spread 522 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: the word about why Not me, our conversations, our inspiring guests, 523 00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: the show. You are not alone in this world.