Speaker 1: Warning today's episode, can you spoil us for dared Evil
Speaker 1: Born Again Season two Episode five you wond Hello, My
Speaker 1: name is Jason, Up to you and on Rosey Night,
Speaker 1: and welcome back to Next Revision, the podcast where we
Speaker 1: dive deep. It's your verit Jos Movies, comics and pop culture.
Speaker 1: We're coming to you from my heart where we're bringing
Speaker 1: you three episode a week.
Speaker 2: Last news in today's episode is episode two five of
Speaker 2: Dead Evil Born Again Season two, The Grand Design.
Speaker 3: So we will be.
Speaker 2: Recapping this action packed episode and be finding out whether
Speaker 2: or not Vanessa is dead or alive, and then we
Speaker 2: will be bringing in super producer Aaron to ask us
Speaker 2: some burning questions about Dead Evil Born Again.
Speaker 1: Daredevil Episode five I have season two The Grand Design.
Speaker 1: We open up with Vanessa in very very rough shape.
Speaker 1: We're in the hospital, not that police still out, but
Speaker 1: power she might be brain dead, she might be dying.
Speaker 4: And is that well said, it's yours?
Speaker 1: Well, well it's really Bullseye's fault. But yes, I mean
Speaker 1: to Vanessa and and Wilson's fault. It's both of their faults.
Speaker 1: They're all involved in.
Speaker 2: This complicit action, complicit and Vanessa's head getting a gloss
Speaker 2: ornament in it.
Speaker 1: Wilson is absolutely flipping out. Powell comes over to Vanessa's
Speaker 1: room to tell Fisk that of course they have no
Speaker 1: idea where Useless and Matt are, and Fisk is like,
Speaker 1: any resources you need to find them, you just tell me.
Speaker 4: But I want them alive, alive, they'll be killing them.
Speaker 4: Do it after escape that.
Speaker 1: Many have screenshot that appears to show Matt running by
Speaker 1: the watcher.
Speaker 2: Yes, crazy, crazy and brat as you Jason Brad Windebaum
Speaker 2: seem to share it and say, you know what if.
Speaker 1: No intentional or not, like, is that really here's the thing.
Speaker 1: I think it's unintentional, and that those were fluorescent lights
Speaker 1: caught in a specific way that said smart to go
Speaker 1: with it, mister Winderbaum. You guys need to Alfred Hitchcock
Speaker 1: this thing and put a watcher somewhere in every episode
Speaker 1: of Marvel TV.
Speaker 4: People would love it in a series. Also, I love
Speaker 4: that the Matthew and Decks together. That name is Max.
Speaker 4: That's the ship name. It's just Max, just a really
Speaker 4: normal shipping name.
Speaker 1: So Matt drags Decks into a resistance kitchen and the
Speaker 1: workers are like, you know, it's like the kitchen for
Speaker 1: some restaurant somewhere where. Apparently like all the restaurant workers
Speaker 1: are in the Resistance, which you.
Speaker 5: Love love to, you know, like to to Superros come
Speaker 5: come barging into the kitchen and Daredel was like, where's
Speaker 5: the where's the boiler room?
Speaker 3: And the workers are like that way go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And also like one of them is a math
Speaker 2: modera who's been like another math matter and they're like
Speaker 2: it's cool, We're fine.
Speaker 4: Now, We're all on this.
Speaker 1: I guess Bedfellows it's a coalition now. Dex is like
Speaker 1: get out of here. Matt like leave me, shave yourself,
Speaker 1: and Matt won't leave him. Boyfriend Dan answers press calls
Speaker 1: from the hospital because everybody in the city and in
Speaker 1: the nation is like Vanessa, Vanessa, Vanessa, Is she dead?
Speaker 4: Is she dead?
Speaker 1: He's like, how dare you ask that kind of question
Speaker 1: right now? They says in a situation I can't talk
Speaker 1: to you about.
Speaker 4: Blah blah blah bb text.
Speaker 1: Simon is like, Hey, meet me at the vending machine.
Speaker 1: I stuck into the hospital.
Speaker 4: Come for fuck's sake.
Speaker 1: Baby dad comes over. He's like, what are you doing
Speaker 1: baby heady here? Yeah, the may is going crazy. He's
Speaker 1: in a rage. If he sees you here, I'll tell
Speaker 1: you apart from Limb and Bibi's like, just give me
Speaker 1: the scoop.
Speaker 3: I need to know.
Speaker 2: Is she desperate for the news, like they have taken
Speaker 2: a day off, Like take a day off from getting
Speaker 2: a scoop, it's not healthy.
Speaker 4: She's like, is she alive?
Speaker 1: It's Vanessa alive? And Dan is like, you gotta listen.
Speaker 1: You gotta promise me, you'ren't gonna tell anybody.
Speaker 4: It's just like, Dad, are you my worst person to tell?
Speaker 2: Like yeah, at this point that she's telling someone like
Speaker 2: come on, my.
Speaker 4: Boy, come on on.
Speaker 1: And Dad's like, okay, we listen between you and me
Speaker 1: and the ConA silence. Okay, she's in critical condition. It's
Speaker 1: very said, it's touch and go right now, but she's alive.
Speaker 1: Incomes Vanessa's surgeon, neurosurgeon, doctor Muradi, comes to see Fisk,
Speaker 1: and he's like, listen, it's very sensitive right now, like
Speaker 1: it's on a knife's edge. Vanessa's on a very tough
Speaker 1: stage and I'm going to do everything i can and
Speaker 1: I'm very skilled. I'm very good at this, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, we're just a lot of this is gonna
Speaker 1: be a waiting game. Meanwhile, Vanessa is in her dying
Speaker 1: mind palace, wandering around this mind palace in.
Speaker 2: Her home with Vanessa like the whole character, she's just
Speaker 2: quite crazy.
Speaker 4: I don't know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's like they couldn't give her Eddy arc outside of this,
Speaker 1: but they're doing it now that she's on death's door. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that she's in her mind palace wandering around reliving
Speaker 1: memories of like her the the time in her life
Speaker 1: when she's about to meet Wilson, she's at the art
Speaker 1: gallery and talking about the painting they will bond over
Speaker 1: and you know all this stuff.
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, Dex is like, fuck, I hope I got her.
Speaker 4: Dude, He's stressed. He's like, fuck she's dead. Like He's like,
Speaker 4: I really And by the way, can we just say
Speaker 4: how how they're like in the Morlock tunnels down here?
Speaker 2: I know that's why if they.
Speaker 1: Go on to this like go the room or a
Speaker 1: restaurant and end up wandering. I was thinking through these
Speaker 1: like holes.
Speaker 4: I was thinking about this, right, So.
Speaker 2: Is this does this mean in every version of New
Speaker 2: York in the multiverse there is like a tunnel system
Speaker 2: like what happens in the Fantastic Four when they go
Speaker 2: and live underneath the ground, because it really does seem
Speaker 2: like New York just has unending tunnels under that.
Speaker 1: It's like Paris, you know, the Catacombs at Paris. I
Speaker 1: absolutely love that this is the case in MCU fictional
Speaker 1: New York. Anyway, dec is like, fuck, man, I hope
Speaker 1: I got her and that the scales in her balance
Speaker 1: and everything's okay if I got her and I'm ready,
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm ready to He's been shot in the gut,
Speaker 1: he's bleeding, he's bleeding out, he's seriously hurt.
Speaker 3: And he's like, man, I fucking you know, I'm ready.
Speaker 1: To go now because I got I hope I got
Speaker 1: knock on Wood, I hope I got Vanessa.
Speaker 3: I'm ready to go. Seems like he's found religion.
Speaker 1: And he's like telling Matt, like I should when I
Speaker 1: fell off, when you threw me off a five story building,
Speaker 1: I should have died.
Speaker 3: How is it that I'm alive?
Speaker 2: We weays, He said, God kept me alive.
Speaker 1: Kill this someone to kill Vanessa Fisk to put a
Speaker 1: shard of a memorial scrapping in the kitchen, Wilson fist
Speaker 1: Crystal Crystal bust into her brain and I hope it
Speaker 1: happens so now I can go. And Matt meanwhile, is like,
Speaker 1: and he keeps on bringing up like and by the way,
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry about Foggy, and.
Speaker 4: I's liked, stop stop talking about Foggy.
Speaker 3: He's like, I just want you to know I'm sorry
Speaker 3: about it.
Speaker 4: He's like, I killed Foggy, so now I have to
Speaker 4: kill Vanessa to balance the scales. I'm sorry. And Matt's like,
Speaker 4: just fucking stop talking about my best friend up.
Speaker 2: Honestly, Matt like what what what use would Foggy have
Speaker 2: been this season?
Speaker 4: Honestly, like what would he have done?
Speaker 2: Maybe helped Kristen run the fucking law firm that you abandoned,
Speaker 2: but otherwise, like, honestly, like she needs to help me.
Speaker 1: And while Matt is wandering around in his own memory palace,
Speaker 1: his own mind palace, he's reminiscing about everyone in the
Speaker 1: early days of him and Foggy, like after law school,
Speaker 1: working at the public defender's office, they're time together as
Speaker 1: lawyers defending a client named McCoy and how yeah, Foggy
Speaker 1: and Matt suggested a plea deal out of jail. You
Speaker 1: know you'll be out of jail in three to four years.
Speaker 1: And McCoy is like, I can't do that because guys
Speaker 1: are trying to kill me. If I go inside, they'll
Speaker 1: kill me. Like, if I go to jail three, I
Speaker 1: won't make it three four hours. They're gonna kill me.
Speaker 1: I'll be dead in twenty four hours, Matt. And Matt
Speaker 1: is like, this is Matt before he's learned about the
Speaker 1: streets and learned about how the streets work and how
Speaker 1: York works. He's like, what are you talking about? Like
Speaker 1: this system works, go in and be fine. And Matt
Speaker 1: and Foggy at this point don't realize that they are
Speaker 1: like a cog in the Fisk machine, the organized crime
Speaker 1: Fisk machine, the legal art. We stay in the past again,
Speaker 1: the early days of Fisk and Vanessa, and this is
Speaker 1: Wilson Fisk's mind palace. Now he is talking with his
Speaker 1: former right hand man Rip Wesley, and they're discussing, like
Speaker 1: ways to diversify his illegal cash hoard and what about bitcoin?
Speaker 1: And West is like, I don't like bitcoin, it's too volatile.
Speaker 1: Let's get you into art. I know somebody with a
Speaker 1: gallery who you can talk and this is Will and
Speaker 1: now we go to the President and Wilson is gets
Speaker 1: to watch like Vanessa in brain surgery.
Speaker 2: Insane by the way, Like get him out of that,
Speaker 2: he's duty. He'd just been scrapping in the kitchen, Like, no,
Speaker 2: I don't have a big window anyway. I've always wondered that,
Speaker 2: why is that real or do they just have that
Speaker 2: in movies, because like people really be watching surgery like
Speaker 2: that in the Symptoms.
Speaker 1: It feels like something like a throwback to like the
Speaker 1: early days of medicine when people would sit in the gallery. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because like medical and learn how to do it type yeah,
Speaker 1: learn how to do it anyway, madd index are still
Speaker 1: like straggling through the Morlock tunnels to these.
Speaker 4: Fucking vast labyrinth of crazy.
Speaker 1: Matt is dragging him forward, I guess to some sort
Speaker 1: of like a hospital or a night nurse situation. We
Speaker 1: get another flashback Foggy and Matt. Now this is Matt's
Speaker 1: flashback mind palace and they're working at the at their
Speaker 1: lawyer's office for and uh. They are in trouble now
Speaker 1: because they didn't let the guy cop a plea because
Speaker 1: he was like I'm gonna get killed they work over
Speaker 1: the weekend. They're working on the papers, coloning papers, and
Speaker 1: Foggy realizes that the warrant from McCoys to the wrong address,
Speaker 1: the whole thing is like fruit of the poison tree.
Speaker 1: It's gonna like fall apart. Foggy's like, why don't we
Speaker 1: just like scuttle the case with like destroy the case,
Speaker 1: because like we've got this evidence that they didn't file
Speaker 1: the evidence tree is poisoned, and we'll get him out
Speaker 1: of jail.
Speaker 4: And Matt is like, we can't do that because he's
Speaker 4: a bad guy. He should be in jail.
Speaker 1: We got to you know, we can't scuttle our own case.
Speaker 1: That's like against how.
Speaker 3: The rules work.
Speaker 1: And they argue about it, and Foggy says, like, we
Speaker 1: have to do this. We are McCoy's lawyers, and yeah,
Speaker 1: exactly advocate for him.
Speaker 4: Still in the still in.
Speaker 1: Flashback world, but now Wilson fisks flashback, which is very confusing.
Speaker 1: We just like are going through flashbacks.
Speaker 4: The memory palaces are real. It's a it's like like
Speaker 4: the Morlock tunnels.
Speaker 1: It's sprawling, and we see Wesley set Fisk up with
Speaker 1: It's like, hey, you need a hit man, I got
Speaker 1: a great guy, and we all know who this is
Speaker 1: gonna be.
Speaker 2: Dan.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, so I guess this is like, is this Dan's anyway?
Speaker 1: I guess this is maybe Dan's flashback. Dan is now
Speaker 1: watching the news break on s N one Vanessa Fisk
Speaker 1: and critical condition. This might be Buck's flashback. I mean, rather,
Speaker 1: Yeah comes over. It's unclear to me where.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Buck comes over, and then they're gonna go get
Speaker 2: the mysterious hot dog slash street meet slash.
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's a good point. Yeah, So Buck is like,
Speaker 1: let's go get a hot dog now.
Speaker 4: So it's that.
Speaker 2: Confirmed that it was supposed to be a hot dog
Speaker 2: in the.
Speaker 1: Other right, Well, no, hold on, Aaron is saying, this
Speaker 1: is pretty Yes, I know this is present day, but
Speaker 1: the Wesley setting Fisk up with a hit man is a.
Speaker 4: Flashback, And the question is who's flashback. It can't be Matts. Oh,
Speaker 4: it's probably there because Buck is the hit man the.
Speaker 1: But then it can't be Bucks because Buck also wasn't there,
Speaker 1: so it must be Fisks because Wesley is dead anyway,
Speaker 1: very confusing. Right in the present, the subject of Wilson
Speaker 1: Fisks flashback. Buck comes up to Dan and it is like,
Speaker 1: let's go get a hot dog. Now we've gone through
Speaker 1: the hot dog thing in the in the discord, I
Speaker 1: don't want to go through it. I'll just say that, however,
Speaker 1: that object was wrapped in the previous episode.
Speaker 4: There's much a hot dog. That's not how.
Speaker 1: Hot dogs are wrapped in New York, that's how subs
Speaker 1: are rapped, whatever. But now they're going to get a
Speaker 1: hot dog. Who knows what they're gonna talk about?
Speaker 4: Who knows?
Speaker 2: And Dan honestly like, don't go. That's my biggest thing,
Speaker 2: is like I just feel like, don't go. I'm sorry, bro,
Speaker 2: Like I know you have an excuse, go see your
Speaker 2: mom or something.
Speaker 1: Murati comes over after the surgery and is like, hey,
Speaker 1: it went well and I'm very hopeful. But you know,
Speaker 1: this isn't like a car repair shop. I can't tell
Speaker 1: you that. Like it's gonna work, yeah, which obviously Fisk
Speaker 1: is unhappy about. But what's he gonna do.
Speaker 4: Buck is not going to get a hot dog. He
Speaker 4: is driving Albany.
Speaker 1: They're going up to the capital region and Buck is like,
Speaker 1: let me tell you a story about a young special
Speaker 1: Forces guy in Afghanistan sas guy, and over there in Afghanistan.
Speaker 1: He's just committing war crimes. Years could shoot cutting out
Speaker 1: like teeth, just killing, killing, killing, killing, assassinations. And by
Speaker 1: the way, proud of it, loves loved his work, loved
Speaker 1: what he was doing. And he's and he's like, by
Speaker 1: the way, that's me. And then he says, by the way,
Speaker 1: I'm very loyal to Wilson Fisk because he just he
Speaker 1: saw something in me. They stop at a house somewhere
Speaker 1: and Buck is like, stay in the car, Dan, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go in there and handle something or other. Dan
Speaker 1: is pretty much freaking.
Speaker 2: He is sure that he was about to get muddered,
Speaker 2: like one hundred Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's Adriana, like in the car, like on the drive,
Speaker 1: like in the last drive, like he's feeling the heat.
Speaker 1: He's seen that episode of the Sopranos. He knows a
Speaker 1: guy that looks like his father in it, and he
Speaker 1: knows it, like this is how it's done right. He
Speaker 1: almost gets out of the car and runs, but then
Speaker 1: he doesn't, and Buck comes out with like a sawzall
Speaker 1: and a shovel. I would probably die just then in
Speaker 1: the car, like I just have a hot We get
Speaker 1: another flashback and now it seems like this is Buck's
Speaker 1: flashback because Buck is there. It's young Buck Cashman, the
Speaker 1: hitman that Wesley called, and he's getting his first assignment
Speaker 1: for Wilson Fisk, which is to kill Matt and Foggy's
Speaker 1: client McCoy, who is just now getting released from jail
Speaker 1: thanks to Foggy. Matt i Corumbah and McCoy is knows
Speaker 1: he's gonna die soon.
Speaker 3: Let's go to break well right back, and we're back.
Speaker 4: In the present.
Speaker 1: Matt finally through the tunnels, gets Decks to the church hideout,
Speaker 1: and we get some more of Matt's recollections in the
Speaker 1: mind palace. We see Foggy gives McCoy money. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, he emptied, like his savings account is like
Speaker 1: get out of it, like you gotta get out of town,
Speaker 1: Get out of town. And in the present, Decks and
Speaker 1: Matt get philosophical about religion, about balancing the scales, about
Speaker 1: violence and the whole thing. Powell shows up at the church.
Speaker 1: The priest opens the door and it's like.
Speaker 3: Ooh's going here.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Matt and Dex are like in the hideout, which
Speaker 1: is up in the attic somewhere.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they're like going to hide.
Speaker 1: Like further up in the church, Matt goes to run,
Speaker 1: but then he goes back to save Decks, despite Decks
Speaker 1: being Foggy's murderer, like.
Speaker 2: Lay me, like just leave me, Like I don't not
Speaker 2: leave to go, and like I gotta save you because
Speaker 2: I'm Catholic, I guess I gotta do it, and they
Speaker 2: get away.
Speaker 1: Up in Albany, it's basically the Pine Barrens episode from Sopranos,
Speaker 1: which again is ironic.
Speaker 3: They pull into the woods.
Speaker 1: Dan is like, fuck, Buck's gonna kill me now, and
Speaker 1: he's like begging for his life.
Speaker 3: Let me go.
Speaker 1: I don't I didn't liak the videos. I don't know
Speaker 1: who leaked the videos, and just let me go out.
Speaker 4: And he's like are you loyal? Are you loyal? Are
Speaker 4: you loyal? And he's like I'm loyal, man, but like
Speaker 4: just let me so fucking loyal.
Speaker 1: You can't you can't believe how loyal aim And he's like, well,
Speaker 1: I need you to prove it now. And then he
Speaker 1: pops the trunk and it's Christophe's body in the trunk
Speaker 1: and he's like you gotta help me cut up this
Speaker 1: body and fucking bury.
Speaker 3: It, which is disgusting, but I know.
Speaker 4: It's better than dying, so you gotta do it right,
Speaker 4: and you didn't kill the guy, so it's.
Speaker 2: I know, it's like, this is so tough, though, because
Speaker 2: I I love this moment for Dan, because they play
Speaker 2: it up so well where you really think that Buck's
Speaker 2: gonna kill him because he's obviously been leaking shit to
Speaker 2: b B.
Speaker 4: But then instead because.
Speaker 2: Buy he like the time, like calm the bus on.
Speaker 2: He's probably the one who gave her the key to
Speaker 2: the basement of fucking Gracie Mansion to make the videos
Speaker 2: like come on bar and but I love that. Instead,
Speaker 2: it's like Buck almost giving him a second chance. He's like, look,
Speaker 2: whatever's going on, Just fucking chop this body up and
Speaker 2: then you're as commis as the rest of us and there's.
Speaker 4: No other leaking.
Speaker 2: Okay, Like he's giving him a chance, but also you
Speaker 2: should probably leave at this point, I guess.
Speaker 1: So we go back to the flashback of Matt and
Speaker 1: Foggy and it's actually Bucks flashback this time, and it's
Speaker 1: Buck killing McCoy for Fisk, and Buck gets away with it.
Speaker 1: Back in the tunnels. Man is Now they're back in
Speaker 1: the fucking tunnels again.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: And this is the tunnels, by the way, connect to
Speaker 1: check a random restaurant, to the church, to Frank's basement
Speaker 1: hide out.
Speaker 4: These are incredible and I.
Speaker 1: Hope they use these in the MCU for the Morlocks
Speaker 1: for real exactly.
Speaker 2: And also as well I go in, I'm like they
Speaker 2: apparently also like are implied to connect to like CLA's
Speaker 2: house because he mentions that he's gonna take him to
Speaker 2: the night now. So I just love this, and let's
Speaker 2: make a blueprint system. Guys, come on, let's walk out
Speaker 2: wherever all of these places connect to. It's pretty crazy.
Speaker 1: So they go to Frank's hideout. Karen sees them staggering.
Speaker 1: It's like, fucking kidding me? Is that fucking decks the
Speaker 1: murder of Foggy Nelson our great friend together. Meanwhile in
Speaker 1: the hospital, you know Fisk is in is in deep, deep,
Speaker 1: deep depression. But then Vanessa puts her hand on Fisk's
Speaker 1: hand and it's like a ray of sunshine hits the
Speaker 1: great bald head of Wilson Fisk and he fucking loses
Speaker 1: it is weeping like a four hundred and fifty pound
Speaker 1: six six foot seven baby cry like weeping hard shutters
Speaker 1: of weeping lacromos.
Speaker 4: Vanessa's like, yeah, Vanessa is like, you know what, I'm
Speaker 4: parched after my brain surgery. Will you get me a
Speaker 4: pineapple juice with ice?
Speaker 3: You don't like pineapple juice? Oh oh.
Speaker 1: And it's very clear in this moment that Vanessa, from
Speaker 1: whatever happened to her, she's like, she's different now, her
Speaker 1: personality has maybe shifted.
Speaker 3: She's a different woman.
Speaker 1: And she's like, and while Fisk is grappling with this
Speaker 1: sudden predilection for pineapple juice, which formerly Vanessa hated, Vanessa
Speaker 1: is so specific. Vanessa is now like, tell me a story,
Speaker 1: tell me a story of how we met. And we
Speaker 1: know that in her mind palace, in her dying mind palace,
Speaker 1: she's been thinking about this, and she talks about She's like,
Speaker 1: by the way, remember the painting. Remember the day, Remember
Speaker 1: when we met and I sold you the painting. I
Speaker 1: overcharged you by a lot, I went, I would have
Speaker 1: paid anything.
Speaker 3: I would have chopped off my leg.
Speaker 4: I would have given an arm and a leg and.
Speaker 6: Jump boyfriend in the dungeon. Oh I did that anything.
Speaker 6: I would have given you the last drops of my
Speaker 6: blood for that painting because it gave us our time together,
Speaker 6: and she's like, wonderful, I still want to hear that
Speaker 6: story about how we met. But before he can even
Speaker 6: get to that, she has a fucking seizure and the
Speaker 6: next thing you know, she's going into that big bright
Speaker 6: light that is hell, not heaven, because she's going downstairs.
Speaker 2: No way, she's saying that great big marble studios with
Speaker 2: the sky baby, I mean way, she's doing hell.
Speaker 1: And she's going, going, going, and she's gone.
Speaker 4: But as the physicus out here, she is dad, oh no,
Speaker 4: And we know now this means that's the end of
Speaker 4: the episode.
Speaker 1: We'd like go in silence to the to the end
Speaker 1: of the episode, and we know now this means Wilson
Speaker 1: Fisk is gonna be cut loose and he's gonna.
Speaker 2: Be fucking it's gonna be wild, man like he is
Speaker 2: not gonna They're gonna need to send Where's where's Matthew Lillard?
Speaker 4: Bring him back because.
Speaker 2: You're gonna on the manas like you've just been letting
Speaker 2: him run around like crazy out here.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go to an ad and we'll be right
Speaker 1: back with Aaron to talk about this episode.
Speaker 4: Ri I P so many flashbacks. I didn't even really
Speaker 4: realize when I was watching it.
Speaker 3: I mean, we got to talk about that too.
Speaker 4: And we're back.
Speaker 3: Welcome eron to the show, Aaron, how are you.
Speaker 4: I'm good.
Speaker 7: I'm really excited to be here for Vanessa's retirement tour
Speaker 7: where we all just look fondly on her, her incredible
Speaker 7: pillar in the art community.
Speaker 4: She's never done anything wrong in her life.
Speaker 3: I know our community just focus.
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean she was on she was on Banksy
Speaker 1: before anybody else.
Speaker 2: I also want to say I appreciate that she was
Speaker 2: scaming Wilson from the get go like that.
Speaker 4: Well, it's a scambro.
Speaker 1: Can we talk about the flashbacks for a second, because
Speaker 1: it is a little so it's so it's clear that
Speaker 1: there are there's Matt's flashback early days of him and Foggy,
Speaker 1: there is Vanessa's flashback early days of her and Wilson.
Speaker 1: There is Wilson's Wilson's flashback him and Wesley hiring Buck.
Speaker 1: And then there's been talking about flashback his side of it,
Speaker 1: and they all kind of mixed together in this very
Speaker 1: weird here's my pitch ready, Brad window, Here's how you
Speaker 1: make sense of this, this is the watcher. This is
Speaker 1: the of the watcher, understanding the entire story as one story, Brad.
Speaker 4: Because Jason said that's free.
Speaker 2: That's I like that too, because not to be too philosophical,
Speaker 2: but like, are we not the watchers of this so
Speaker 2: connecting shit?
Speaker 4: We are the overseers who keep this all going so
Speaker 4: and no matter how many things you post, one cannot interfere.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we cannot interfere exactly. Like, but when we're seeing
Speaker 2: it like that. I like that explanation because it kind
Speaker 2: of when I was watching it, actually it did flow
Speaker 2: together in a way that made sense. But when you're
Speaker 2: going back and saying how many flashbacks you are, you like, wait,
Speaker 2: this is kind of crazy.
Speaker 3: Like it reminds me of Listen.
Speaker 1: It's very much like you don't notice until you start picking.
Speaker 3: Your part exactly.
Speaker 1: It's like saving Private Ryan the entire Okay, saving this
Speaker 1: is off topic, but we're gonna no, no, I need this
Speaker 1: die badge and come on, Stephen. A concept saving Okay,
Speaker 1: Saving Private Ryan opens with an with an aged Private
Speaker 1: Ryan and his like three hot granddaughters going to the
Speaker 1: graveyard at Normandy Beach, right, and he falls on his
Speaker 1: knees in front of the gravestone of Captain Miller, understanding
Speaker 1: that this great sacrifice had happened in order to save him.
Speaker 1: And then he goes into his mind palace to recollect
Speaker 1: about this great adventure, and he starts on.
Speaker 4: D Day and he's not there exactly.
Speaker 1: He's not there for sixty seventy five percent of the
Speaker 1: story until he shows up, so he doesn't know about
Speaker 1: any of this. And it's very if you can't like whatever,
Speaker 1: if you that's all, that's all I'm saying, Aaron, sorry
Speaker 1: to cut you off your thoughts about this episode.
Speaker 7: I mean, I feel bad for anyone who didn't get
Speaker 7: a flashback, because, like you said, we were going real,
Speaker 7: real fast and loose with who got him? It was
Speaker 7: good to see flash No Karen, No, Karen, Yeah, No McDuffie,
Speaker 7: what was she doing back then?
Speaker 4: I love you said this Jason earlier. I love Wesley.
Speaker 7: Wesley was my favorite part I think of season one,
Speaker 7: and it was so nice to see him back.
Speaker 4: And it's I like Buck. I like Buck. I like Buck.
Speaker 7: Here in the flashback where he's dressed like Bucky, he
Speaker 7: like literally looks like Winter Soldier. He has the exact
Speaker 7: same Marvel outfit. But Buck is great, but he's no
Speaker 7: Wesley Man.
Speaker 3: So it was so cool.
Speaker 7: There was a lot of this episode that felt like
Speaker 7: the greatest hits of season one.
Speaker 2: Kind of yes, I feel like they were trying to
Speaker 2: deal with that, especially with like Vanessa.
Speaker 7: Yeah, Vanessa's death scare the Sewers is just like when
Speaker 7: Matt and Vladimir are in the Sewers and Vladimir's like
Speaker 7: leave me and I'll gun them down, and you know,
Speaker 7: Matt and Foggy arguing about what's right and ethical.
Speaker 4: You know, it was situation.
Speaker 2: Good to show here that Foggy was really the more
Speaker 2: radical one, Like he's kind of theigiration behind Matt's knew Wow.
Speaker 7: You know, like I really like that. I like that
Speaker 7: they reached out to him, like we want to bring
Speaker 7: you back for one episode. We're gonna just insult you
Speaker 7: the whole time. We got the mean, mean nicknames for you.
Speaker 7: But you're gonna come back and you're gonna give away
Speaker 7: the money.
Speaker 4: It'll be nice, and you're gonna be the right. You're
Speaker 4: gonna be in the right. Yes, you'll be right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about Vanessa and her wanderings in the
Speaker 1: mind palace and what I thought, I have to say
Speaker 1: was a very effective rug pull.
Speaker 7: Oh.
Speaker 4: I really enjoyed this the technique in.
Speaker 1: The craft here because I was like, oh, she's gonna
Speaker 1: be she's gonna live, but she's gonna be like totally
Speaker 1: different now and this.
Speaker 4: Is and she's not gonna be a criminal.
Speaker 1: This has happened and she's gonna remember it and she yeah,
Speaker 1: and she's gonna be like good now exactly. She likes
Speaker 1: pineapple juice now and she hates crime.
Speaker 2: Pineapple juices like has so many weird connotations too.
Speaker 4: It's like so couldn't be any other juice, Like, yeah.
Speaker 2: It's a strange choice, but she loves pineapple juice hates crime.
Speaker 2: Like I was really did not see this as like
Speaker 2: timon I I.
Speaker 1: Thought it was a twist and so and right when
Speaker 1: you're I'm grappling with that, like okay, so this is
Speaker 1: gonna be fisk is gonna have to like figure out
Speaker 1: like she's gone, Oh it was. I thought it was good. Aaron,
Speaker 1: how is how did you react to to this twist?
Speaker 7: Yeah, when she comes back and asks like tell me
Speaker 7: the story about us, Like I love that, you know,
Speaker 7: this like humanizing Fisk. I think the show is at
Speaker 7: its best when you you kind of are on fisk side.
Speaker 4: A little bit, even though that's why they yeah story.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and again with the season one, you know, backstories
Speaker 7: and everything when you're getting his flashbacks and what his
Speaker 7: dad was. But and then when she does it again,
Speaker 7: I was like, oh, so does he is? She now
Speaker 7: gonna have no short term memory and they're gonna be together,
Speaker 7: but he's gonna be even more sympathetic and doing even
Speaker 7: more horrible things on the side. And then to completely
Speaker 7: take her out of it. You're right, Jason, Like, we
Speaker 7: are going We're going to get Fisk. He's been on
Speaker 7: his he is going to be so well and he
Speaker 7: already beat.
Speaker 4: A guy that death in the ring.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now he's gonna be completely unleashilled.
Speaker 4: He killed his boxing coach just because he was mad like.
Speaker 2: And the boxing coach was not at the boxing match,
Speaker 2: so I know him do well?
Speaker 4: Like No.
Speaker 2: I love this because this essentially sets up for the
Speaker 2: last few episodes of the show, allowing Wilson to be
Speaker 2: completely off the reservation, like he is out completely in
Speaker 2: a different situation. He is not gonna have Vanessa tying
Speaker 2: him down he's not gonna have the ideas of respectability.
Speaker 4: Tying him down.
Speaker 2: Like I think this is where we see him go
Speaker 2: from mere fisk to mere kingpin. Basically, I think that's
Speaker 2: what we're gonna get.
Speaker 7: You're I think you for forget which one you said
Speaker 7: it last week, but the idea that you know, when
Speaker 7: we get the Governor saying to Vanessa, you're the only
Speaker 7: one that can control him, I trust you to keep
Speaker 7: his his worst things in check, that was that we
Speaker 7: should have known, you know that. Yeah, that's just the setup.
Speaker 7: That's like, okay, it's been loaded. The gun is here,
Speaker 7: like Chekhov is going to shoot.
Speaker 4: And we are.
Speaker 2: I think you make a great point too, because now
Speaker 2: that Vanessa, because obviously you know she was in our deadpool.
Speaker 2: So I think we all got points for that one
Speaker 2: after last episode. Good for us RP Vanessa. But I
Speaker 2: also think Aaron, this heightens the risk of the Governor
Speaker 2: dying because there's no one. Now he's just gonna be like, yes,
Speaker 2: like's is.
Speaker 4: Gonna move on.
Speaker 7: The Governor has to. I mean when he has to
Speaker 7: take her out. When says they're going to Albany, I
Speaker 7: thought they were doing. I was like, oh, Okay, is
Speaker 7: Dan gonna have to kill her? That was what I thought,
Speaker 7: but instead, you know, the date midday undertaking, I guess
Speaker 7: is a similar thing for Dan.
Speaker 4: But still, guys, Albany is a crazy place.
Speaker 2: If you ever been there, it's like insane that it's
Speaker 2: the capital, Like it's so crazy.
Speaker 1: Well, the capital region in general is a very strange,
Speaker 1: complex thing, and Albany is like a hollow town.
Speaker 4: That's the best way to describe it. Like everything is
Speaker 4: like closed, everything is creepy.
Speaker 1: Everything is close a center of government for the entire state,
Speaker 1: and there's like what you know, big city, big medium
Speaker 1: sized city ish and it's like there's the one main
Speaker 1: street where stuff is kind of open.
Speaker 4: Wander out of that and it's like a cardboard town. Terrific.
Speaker 4: I went there for.
Speaker 2: A wedding and literally, like the afternoon when I wasn't
Speaker 2: wedding in I like managed to find like one good
Speaker 2: slice of pizza and then everything was just like a weird,
Speaker 2: creepy like kid's clothes shop or something, and nothing was branded.
Speaker 2: It wasn't even like an H and M. It's all
Speaker 2: like weird indie mum and pop shop, very limited weird.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 2: I feel like Albanie is exactly the kind of place
Speaker 2: where you're gonna get killed by an assassin, So I
Speaker 2: feel like her being there is not going well for her.
Speaker 1: Can we talk about the I mean, it must be
Speaker 1: weird to be in an episode of a show that
Speaker 1: feels like it is like mirroring the show that your
Speaker 1: father was famous for. Yes, I wonder if you like
Speaker 1: this is a very I mean, Dan's plotline is an
Speaker 1: extremely Soprano's plotline. I think they cost you one, but
Speaker 1: even more so this time.
Speaker 4: That must be so crazy.
Speaker 7: And at times it's not because at times it's dealing
Speaker 7: with social media and it is dealing with a very
Speaker 7: different side of things. This was so like him bringing
Speaker 7: out an electric saw and a shovel. This could have
Speaker 7: happened anytime in the last thirty years, kind of.
Speaker 2: I also like, I kinda I love it too, because
Speaker 2: he did play his dad right, and they did like
Speaker 2: a Sopranos sequel.
Speaker 3: He did play movie sint of New Jersey something.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And and like I love that he's getting
Speaker 2: to kind of do a virgin here where him being
Speaker 2: in it is metatextually referential, but he's also getting to
Speaker 2: have a storyline that you would never really fully get
Speaker 2: to have in The Sopranos if you were playing Tony
Speaker 2: Soprano's son, which is like you're really dealing with the reality.
Speaker 4: Of getting into this. It's almost like a what do
Speaker 4: they call him?
Speaker 2: Like before you're made man, you're like a funny guy
Speaker 2: or something shit, you're a social or whatever like so
Speaker 2: like it's kind of like him taking that watching him
Speaker 2: get to choose whether or not.
Speaker 4: To take that step.
Speaker 2: And I have to say something that's incredible about the
Speaker 2: young active place Dan is like I still don't phoene. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I still don't fucking know, Like I don't know if
Speaker 2: he's gonna ultimately do the right thing or if he's
Speaker 2: gonna turn on Beebe because he is the heir apparent
Speaker 2: and Buck sees him that way, and Buck not killing
Speaker 2: him and giving him this opportunity is telling him you
Speaker 2: can be next.
Speaker 1: It's a really great performance, Like I really am enjoying
Speaker 1: I love that Michael Gandelfini's performance in this show because
Speaker 1: it is he there's not a ton like on the page,
Speaker 1: but he's bringing the tension of he's very fond of
Speaker 1: Bee of Biebe, to the point of clearly as a
Speaker 1: crush on her, but also she's coming to represent this
Speaker 1: like pull of like the right thing versus the pull
Speaker 1: of the wrong thing, like a human of doing the
Speaker 1: right thing, just generally, like being a good person versus
Speaker 1: being pulled into, you know, further into Wilson's orbit via Buck.
Speaker 1: But also like there's that layer of he like loves
Speaker 1: the trappings of yeah he's marriage. I love it, Like
Speaker 1: yeah money, he gets to be at the scrap and
Speaker 1: at the kitchen boxing match where a guy died. He
Speaker 1: bulls like Kilvanessa, like he's in the room where it happened,
Speaker 1: and that's very seductive to him, even though he knows
Speaker 1: that it's all wrong.
Speaker 4: And I just think it's a great performance.
Speaker 2: I love that too, Jason, because you also pull on
Speaker 2: something that originally I thought was actually a kind of.
Speaker 4: Not necessarily like a plot issue.
Speaker 2: But we had kind of talked a lot about how
Speaker 2: Beebe's choices are like often really silly and like she
Speaker 2: doesn't do.
Speaker 4: A good job.
Speaker 2: She's she's often bringing dumbbe energy. But I actually think
Speaker 2: that in the grand scheme of things, the show is
Speaker 2: making a point, which is like the people who are
Speaker 2: trying to do the right thing, often make mistakes.
Speaker 4: They're leaderless.
Speaker 2: Right, you don't get a lot of fucking good shit
Speaker 2: from being on the right side of history. But everything
Speaker 2: that Buck does, everything that you know freakin' Wilson Fisk does,
Speaker 2: it has a sheen of like, this is success, this
Speaker 2: is the real world. This is the well done, well
Speaker 2: put together world. Are you gonna give that up for
Speaker 2: someone who's just constantly making dumb mistakes, even if she's
Speaker 2: doing the right thing. Like, I actually think that they're
Speaker 2: leveraging it in a really interesting way.
Speaker 4: I completely agree.
Speaker 1: He's got like a sick two or three bedroom apartment,
Speaker 1: townhouse kind of fucking five die or somewhere. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: gonna say definitely, like that's a seven eight thousand dollars apartment.
Speaker 1: He's obviously not paying ten thousand dollars apartment. And it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is great. Obviously this is awesome. But you're gonna
Speaker 1: have to cut up bodies, yeah, to keep to maintain this.
Speaker 1: And it's played out through him.
Speaker 4: It's wonderful. I read.
Speaker 7: I actually read in the hospital in the beginning, when
Speaker 7: he's talking to Bibi about Vanessa's status. I kind of
Speaker 7: read that as him giving her one last chance, like
Speaker 7: I'm gonna feed.
Speaker 3: You this, don't like, please please.
Speaker 7: Don't leak this, and he he knows she probably will,
Speaker 7: but he I couldn't tell.
Speaker 2: I couldn't tell whether in that moment it was that
Speaker 2: and this is why Mike's so great as an actor.
Speaker 4: But like or if in that moment he was like, actually.
Speaker 2: Fuck, people do need to know what's going on, and
Speaker 2: if I tell her then they're gonna know. Like, I
Speaker 2: couldn't tell whether I think in his mind he can
Speaker 2: play it as I'm giving her one last chance. But
Speaker 2: I'm starting to feel like at this point he knows
Speaker 2: what Beebe's doing, So anytime he tells us something, there's
Speaker 2: like at least a ten percent part of him who
Speaker 2: thinks it's important that the public. No, it's really great,
Speaker 2: and I don't know where it's fucking Galley.
Speaker 7: There's another thing that it's it's great. Another thing this
Speaker 7: episode did. They've been doing it the past like three
Speaker 7: or four. Really they do. They mirror storylines. So Matt's
Speaker 7: got something going on here, Fisk has something over here,
Speaker 7: and they're they're swapping back and forth, and like Fisk
Speaker 7: and Vanessa in bed and Matt and Karen. I thought
Speaker 7: this episode it finally hit like they've done it pretty well,
Speaker 7: but in this one they nailed it, I think, And
Speaker 7: you know what, maybe they're using that technique a little
Speaker 7: too much.
Speaker 4: It's like, you know what.
Speaker 2: They love to do it because it's very Batman jokut,
Speaker 2: very like they're.
Speaker 4: The same, they're different. But I did really like it here.
Speaker 2: Because I think that something that's really interesting in this season,
Speaker 2: and especially when it comes to Decks, is like the
Speaker 2: different ideas of like love and forgiveness and like mercy,
Speaker 2: and this kind of idea of like the way that
Speaker 2: Wilson will fight to the end to save Vanessa because
Speaker 2: he sees that as his save you, she's the one
Speaker 2: person who keeps him human, who keeps him and Matt
Speaker 2: is going through that with Decks, being like, well, the
Speaker 2: one thing that makes me different than you is that
Speaker 2: I'm gonna fucking save you, and no matter how hard it.
Speaker 4: Gets, it's so good, like and it's funny. Yeah, you
Speaker 4: go great, Jason.
Speaker 1: I love my favorite bit in this episode this two.
Speaker 1: The first is the tunnels, which just crazy incredible how
Speaker 1: far they go. They go on fucking forever. It's like,
Speaker 1: it's just it's amazing how extensive they are. I don't
Speaker 1: know how Matt knows how to navigate them. I gotta
Speaker 1: smell or something he can smell.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, fucking stinks. So definitely.
Speaker 1: That and the way Dex keeps like Matt is like
Speaker 1: stop talking about Foggy, and Dex is like, I killed him.
Speaker 4: It was terrible.
Speaker 3: I feel bad.
Speaker 4: About it, and he just gets the yeah, I know he
Speaker 4: calt through.
Speaker 2: He's got so much guilt about it and he wants
Speaker 2: them to be okay, and it's like, bro, you are
Speaker 2: serial killer. Like you sorry, it's probably not gonna happen
Speaker 2: that you're going to become friends, but you know, I
Speaker 2: will say something that is very funny about watching this
Speaker 2: show is, you know, we talked originally when we were
Speaker 2: started covering it, We're like, wow, this feels kind of
Speaker 2: crazy that they've got ice, and like it feels like.
Speaker 4: It's up to date.
Speaker 2: And people in our discord were like, I don't know, man,
Speaker 2: things are so bad that this feels kind of soft.
Speaker 2: And now it is getting really hilarious because obviously we
Speaker 2: had scrapping in the kitchen and we saw Donald Trump
Speaker 2: at the UFC match on the night that that Iran
Speaker 2: wore kind of stuff fell apart, and then alleged negotiations
Speaker 2: that he said Jade banns Forth.
Speaker 4: Now the thing is right with all the Catholicism, I'm like,
Speaker 4: I was like.
Speaker 2: Well, w will well, well, will Willson Fisk, will he
Speaker 2: start a fight with the Pope?
Speaker 4: Will he called the Pope? Week Like, we need to
Speaker 4: see it.
Speaker 2: I can see it's getting too crazy, guys, probable we
Speaker 2: on crime. I could imagine Wilson Fisk saying that ship, like,
Speaker 2: come on.
Speaker 7: Before we get to the deadpool. I do have one concern.
Speaker 7: We are five episodes in. We still have no Jessica Jones, and.
Speaker 4: That's kind of crazy. But it's making me a little worried.
Speaker 4: It is shocking to me.
Speaker 3: We have what three more episodes.
Speaker 4: That's it, that's it. Okay, it's gotta happen next step.
Speaker 2: But happened next The people want it. I want it
Speaker 2: because actually.
Speaker 4: It has to happen next episode. Yeah, I want it.
Speaker 3: I want it.
Speaker 1: You can't show up in episode seven, no, no, or
Speaker 1: in the finale.
Speaker 4: That would be like, yeah, they wouldn't have ever allowed
Speaker 4: that to leak.
Speaker 7: In the let's hope she shows up in all three
Speaker 7: of them. I mean, because they praided her out as
Speaker 7: a big part of the marketing. She's in the earliest
Speaker 7: trailers and stuff.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell you guys, my theory that I've had
Speaker 2: since the beginning that I'm hoping is true is the
Speaker 2: reason we haven't seen is because she is going to
Speaker 2: be in that like post Marvel Max post Her and Jessica,
Speaker 2: where her and Luke probably have settled down and have
Speaker 2: a kid. And I'm hoping that that's what we're going
Speaker 2: to see. It means we could get some squirrel girl action,
Speaker 2: could get some babysitting action.
Speaker 4: Could see Kamala.
Speaker 2: I would love to see Kamala Kahn as the New
Speaker 2: York's babysitter for superpowered babies. But yeah, I do think
Speaker 2: they need to bring her out. Also, I'll tell you
Speaker 2: the discord. That is what they're hungry for. Every single week.
Speaker 2: It's just Jessica, Jessica, Jessica. We want to see Kristin Ris,
Speaker 2: So let's hope. Okay, So, speaking of that, do you
Speaker 2: think we get to see anyone else? Do you think
Speaker 2: they're going to do a night nurse? I think she's
Speaker 2: quite likely at this point.
Speaker 1: Actually, I thought if we were going to get a night, well,
Speaker 1: it would be here in the tunnel. I thought, for sure,
Speaker 1: if we were going to lurking the fucking sewer she comes.
Speaker 3: But but it does.
Speaker 1: It did feel like if they were okay, wait, wait, wait, wait,
Speaker 1: it would be now why a recast?
Speaker 3: Do do you think that they could?
Speaker 4: I think they could get Risario Dawson still this.
Speaker 2: I think they could get her right now, like what
Speaker 2: she been in, like, but that's a Disney show.
Speaker 4: But this is such a minor I guess maybe maybe.
Speaker 2: Right, I'm like, but them, I wonder if it's easy
Speaker 2: to just bring her back for like wing or a
Speaker 2: nod like a I'll just say that.
Speaker 1: I think that would be cool. And I think that well,
Speaker 1: I think you have to have.
Speaker 4: You know. I think if Jessica, you think we have
Speaker 4: to have Luke.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Luke's got to show.
Speaker 4: See.
Speaker 7: I think the longer point, the longer we wait for Jessica,
Speaker 7: the less likely we are to get anyone. You know.
Speaker 7: I don't know, I I think I said in the
Speaker 7: very first episode, when Dex saves Matt in Cherry's apartment
Speaker 7: against the a a v TF. I thought that was
Speaker 7: gonna be Jessica, and I was amazing, We're going to
Speaker 7: get her episode one, she comes in, she's she's here
Speaker 7: the whole time, and we get like almost a Defenders
Speaker 7: type thing.
Speaker 4: So I'm I'm worried that we will.
Speaker 2: Well, I will say, if you put your earmuffs over
Speaker 2: your head, guys, if you don't like season three spoilers.
Speaker 4: But there has been some.
Speaker 2: Leaked photos that have confirmed that certain people are coming
Speaker 2: back for the next season, So maybe that does mean
Speaker 2: that they kind of they maybe pop the cork a
Speaker 2: little early on saying Jessica was going to be in it,
Speaker 2: and she's more of like an end season thing that
Speaker 2: leads into the next season.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I hope.
Speaker 2: I hope that she has a bigger role because her
Speaker 2: and Matt have always been so funny together. Obviously, I
Speaker 2: would love to see, you know, a little sheeholc action.
Speaker 2: I don't think that's gonna happen. It's not that kind
Speaker 2: of show. Where do we think going off this, like, well,
Speaker 2: I guess let's do the Deadpool because I was gonna
Speaker 2: be like, where do we leave the big guys, Like,
Speaker 2: where do we leave like a Wilson after this, you know,
Speaker 2: because I don't think they get rid of him.
Speaker 4: But it's still look bad.
Speaker 7: At the end of last episode, Jason, you had Governor McCaffrey,
Speaker 7: Beebe and Dan Rosie. You had beb Yah yah v and.
Speaker 4: And yeah because Vanessa is dead, so.
Speaker 7: Right, and I had Governor McCaffrey, BB and Karen. So
Speaker 7: all of us did BB. Two of us did Governor McCaffrey.
Speaker 4: And that was it. That was the only similarity.
Speaker 1: Okay, I I so obviously Vanessa rip I'm gonna throw.
Speaker 1: I mean, how old is Donofrio sixty seven years old?
Speaker 2: I know, I do think that's a badroom where he
Speaker 2: liked does become the He's ok Donafrio.
Speaker 4: Is sixty six? Do we think can he run it out?
Speaker 1: This is a physical ass role and you can feel
Speaker 1: it in those fight scenes.
Speaker 4: Oh, like there's a lot of coups.
Speaker 1: It's they're cutting, you know, every punch is like three
Speaker 1: different cuts and they're cutting it all together. And so
Speaker 1: can he keep Can he keep doing this? I think
Speaker 1: he's got it. I think he's got a little bit
Speaker 1: more left than him, Like it's a Lebron situation.
Speaker 4: I think yes, two in him.
Speaker 1: But at some point we've got to start looking at
Speaker 1: at off ramps for Wilson Fisk.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's going to.
Speaker 1: Be now, but I do think get ready for Wilson
Speaker 1: Fisk in the Deadpool in coming years.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm gonna leave.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say b b or Dan the Governor for
Speaker 1: my Deadpool, and then I'm gonna say I'm gonna say
Speaker 1: Cherry the guys had two heart attacks. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: how is he still alive? He could already be dead
Speaker 1: and we wouldn't.
Speaker 7: Even before you go in Jason talking about Kingpin and
Speaker 7: an off ramp. Do you think he'd be effective as
Speaker 7: a villain if he's not physical. He's there as a
Speaker 7: looming force and he sort of manipulates things behind the scenes.
Speaker 7: He never gets into a physical altercation with Matt or anything.
Speaker 7: Would that still be effective?
Speaker 4: No, because he's.
Speaker 1: One time a season he's gotta like throw a guy
Speaker 1: through a wall your fight like ten inches.
Speaker 2: Yes, probably be Like he would leave and like you'd
Speaker 2: only see him in those moments where he had the power,
Speaker 2: like even if he was resting or was the Machiavellian
Speaker 2: puppet master kind of like in Spider Use, you still
Speaker 2: gotta have him be that looming figure at least once,
Speaker 2: especially in a show where he we've literally sent him
Speaker 2: crush someone's head.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, I think if we're talking about the movies, you
Speaker 1: can see g the ship out of this and it
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be him. But I think for the
Speaker 1: TV it's gotta be him. And again, watch that fight scene.
Speaker 1: There are so many cuts and there are moments where
Speaker 1: he has to run a little bit, you know, and
Speaker 1: it's like, good, yeah, I can't.
Speaker 2: Run and I'm fat seven. Okay, guys, I'm gonna I'm
Speaker 2: gonna go okay I do. I'm gonna put in a
Speaker 2: random one just because I know the way that Marvel.
Speaker 2: What I'm gonna say, I think, like Detect of Kim,
Speaker 2: I think they might just kill her off because they.
Speaker 3: Need to kill somebody.
Speaker 2: She's barely up there, like they just have to accidentally
Speaker 2: get hit by a bullet.
Speaker 4: It's feeling likely. I'm also gonna go round. I'm going
Speaker 4: outrageous because.
Speaker 2: Karen's face, like when when she saw I'm putting decks.
Speaker 4: I think Karen might.
Speaker 2: Kill Decks because I they have been they have been
Speaker 2: putting a good one they've been putting this feelers out of,
Speaker 2: Like is she gonna turn full frank? Like we know
Speaker 2: that the Punisher special that we saw the teaser fab
Speaker 2: was very different in tone than I was expecting, much
Speaker 2: more like.
Speaker 4: Death, death, killing death, killing death.
Speaker 2: And I do wonder if that ultimate conflict between Matt
Speaker 2: and Karen is gonna be what breaks him up if
Speaker 2: she takes that step he can't take, So that's gonna
Speaker 2: be and then who's last?
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go for BB. I still think she's moving
Speaker 4: too mad? Can I Can I pitch something?
Speaker 7: Can I?
Speaker 1: Just like quickly before before your Deadpool? Can I pitch
Speaker 1: something for Karen? Yeah, Lady Lynn Michaels, lady Lady Punisher.
Speaker 4: Oh I would love it. I love a lady Punisher.
Speaker 2: I made a trans punish a character called front see
Speaker 2: Castle like years ago, just like a shitty sketch, like.
Speaker 4: They need more Punishers.
Speaker 2: Everyone else gets a funny mantle, like they should keep
Speaker 2: passing it on. I mean, you wouldn't love to see
Speaker 2: this fucking Karen who we always know is a badass
Speaker 2: but has rarely gotten to do much and then now
Speaker 2: she's fucking rocking that little Punisher thing like I would
Speaker 2: love that Lady Punisher, miss Punisher, whatever.
Speaker 4: The fuck they want to call it, like, let's do it.
Speaker 4: That'd be sick.
Speaker 3: Okay, Aaron's go.
Speaker 7: Youre Deadpool, I think BB But I think it's because Dan.
Speaker 7: I think Dan's weak, and I think Dan has just
Speaker 7: had the shit scared out of him by the Albany trip,
Speaker 7: and I think he's he's gonna not be.
Speaker 4: Able to protect her anymore.
Speaker 7: Whether or not he's doing it intentionally, I think he's
Speaker 7: he's she's gone for because as a hymn bulls Eye,
Speaker 7: because Bullseye was like wanting to die, bulls Eye was
Speaker 7: okay in his mind. He was like, if Vanessa dies,
Speaker 7: it'll all been worth it. That's my one good deed.
Speaker 7: It doesn't matter how many other people I killed. As
Speaker 7: long as I kill Vanessa, that's enough. So I think
Speaker 7: he's true. He's got his off ramp already. And I'll
Speaker 7: put McCaffrey too, because I think she's she's screwed.
Speaker 4: I mean they're already.
Speaker 2: I'm like, unless she has like a secret superhero bodygud
Speaker 2: like she's getting got.
Speaker 4: Like, let's be real.
Speaker 7: You know she tried to play rival to Fisk and
Speaker 7: it didn't work that well. And now I think she's
Speaker 7: just done for And I think he's gonna.
Speaker 2: You threaten the Pirate Chata unless you have another secret
Speaker 2: chata like countrydicts.
Speaker 4: The Pirate Chota. Come on, babe, come on, you know.
Speaker 1: What I've come around to believing now Fisk and Buck,
Speaker 1: Oh it's baby, but they want to test Dan's loyalty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think they fucking know. Come on, how dumb?
Speaker 4: You know, how dumb can we be at this point?
Speaker 4: Like it's her, She's got.
Speaker 1: I ope him, we know and I and I really
Speaker 1: think this is primarily about will Dan.
Speaker 3: Can we get Dan to do it? Because I think
Speaker 3: killer right now?
Speaker 2: But ye, like, you know, they can fucking hire Decks
Speaker 2: again and killer, Like that's so many people who are
Speaker 2: willing to kill a.
Speaker 4: But I think they like Dan.
Speaker 1: They want Dan to be really part of the machine
Speaker 1: in a way that like nobody else but Buck is,
Speaker 1: you know, and I think they see him as like
Speaker 1: a future Wesley because Buck doesn't that skill set. Buck
Speaker 1: is just like a pipe hitter, but you know, like
Speaker 1: he's not like a smart strategy guy. I can tell
Speaker 1: you about bitcoin. Dan can do all that stuff, and
Speaker 1: obviously Shila doesn't have the guts to be that person,
Speaker 1: and so I think this is about this is probably
Speaker 1: Wilson Fisk pulling the strings, being like, let's see, let's
Speaker 1: test his loyal Wise, I.
Speaker 2: Also think so too, because I think that to be
Speaker 2: in Wilson Fisks suckle, Yeah, you have to be loyal,
Speaker 2: but they want you to have pressure points that they
Speaker 2: can play on. They want you to have weaknesses, they
Speaker 2: want you to keep secrets. So I actually think this
Speaker 2: is appealing to them because it gives them leverage over Dan.
Speaker 2: So I totally agree Jason. I think we're gonna see
Speaker 2: that the thing I can't work out. And again, this
Speaker 2: is really just fucking massive kudos to the actors. I
Speaker 2: feel like they're building such an interesting relationship between Buck
Speaker 2: and Dan, where every time it feels like it's something threatening,
Speaker 2: it's actually revealed to be Buck trying to bring him
Speaker 2: in closer and he's actually making the choice to back Dan.
Speaker 2: And I wonder if that is going to come into
Speaker 2: play where Buck's loyalties are even like and it's harder
Speaker 2: for him to deal with the Dan situation because he
Speaker 2: actually is the first one who said he's the heir apparent.
Speaker 2: He's the one that we care about. It's like Buck
Speaker 2: has this connection to him, and I'm starting to feel
Speaker 2: even that like maybe Wilson did send Buck out to
Speaker 2: kill him, and Buck said, actually, let's see if he
Speaker 2: chops up this body, let's see if he's loyal.
Speaker 4: Like I'm feeling, I feel.
Speaker 2: Like that relationship there is so interesting and we haven't
Speaker 2: had a lot of time with it, but they're both
Speaker 2: doing a.
Speaker 4: Great job to add a little more to what Yeah,
Speaker 4: everybody's doing it.
Speaker 1: Everybody's like there's just like really talented actress on this sea.
Speaker 1: They're doing a lot with really kind of not that much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because a lot I was gonna say, like with
Speaker 2: the Chroppic, I think that this show is still dealing
Speaker 2: with how much how chopped up the first season was.
Speaker 4: And then in an episode like this, you're basically want to.
Speaker 2: Interlocked multiple interlocking flashbacks, but there are also like is
Speaker 2: finally also getting into the groove of being able to
Speaker 2: successfully do the dueling plot lines and everything. So it's
Speaker 2: this really interesting space where there is a lot to
Speaker 2: get through.
Speaker 4: So a lot of the big moments you're like, yeah,
Speaker 4: that was great.
Speaker 2: It's a big moment, But the actors are like, I
Speaker 2: remember what the MCU could be. Like I'm trying to
Speaker 2: stay in this fucking show, Like I want to be
Speaker 2: this character, Like I want to make a relationship that
Speaker 2: the fans care so much about that you can't kill.
Speaker 4: Me, Rosie. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 7: And you said when you said the show is doing
Speaker 7: a lot with the chopping, I thought you were talking
Speaker 7: about them chopping up the dead body.
Speaker 4: Still, that's an interesting way to go with it.
Speaker 3: But we love.
Speaker 1: We're going to continue covering Daredevil Born Against season two
Speaker 1: here on Extra Vision and of course mal Shadow Lord.
Speaker 7: That's it for this episode, and the end of our
Speaker 7: Greatest TV Episodes will.
Speaker 4: Be the shocking end.
Speaker 1: Yes from Beef will be revealed and more drama.
Speaker 2: Oh wait, you will find out my enemy are true?
Speaker 1: Enemies are revealed in the final episode of the Greatest
Speaker 1: TV Episodes two thousand and that's it.
Speaker 3: For this episode that you're listening.
Speaker 1: Bo x ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepcion and
Speaker 1: Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 3: Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 2: Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bay wag.
Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Speaker 2: Heidi Our discord moderator