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Speaker 1: If I had to pick one thing for being happier,

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Speaker 1: I would say anything. If you're trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: what to do with your time, energy, or money, anything

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Speaker 1: that goes to relationships is something that's likely to make

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Speaker 1: you happier, and it'll make you feel more supportive, and

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Speaker 1: it will also make you feel like you're better able

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Speaker 1: to support others, and that is also a tremendous source

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Speaker 1: of happiness. One of the best ways to make yourself

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Speaker 1: happier is to make other people happier, and one of

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Speaker 1: the best ways to make other people happier is to

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Speaker 1: be happier yourself.

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Speaker 2: Hey everyone, Emily body here.

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Speaker 3: You are listening to episode one seventy six of Hurdle,

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Speaker 3: a wellness focus podcast where I connect with everyone from

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Speaker 3: your favorite athletes to top experts in industry CEOs about

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Speaker 3: their highest hies, toughest moments, and everything in between. We

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Speaker 3: all go through hurdles in life, and my goal through

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Speaker 3: these discussions is to empower you to better navigate yours

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Speaker 3: and move with intention so that you can stride towards

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Speaker 3: your own big potential and of course have some fun

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Speaker 3: along the way. Today I am so excited to bring

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Speaker 3: you my conversation with Gretchen Ruben. She is the New

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Speaker 3: York Times best selling author. She's well known for her

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Speaker 3: book The Happiness Project. She's also the podcaster behind the

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Speaker 3: podcast Happier with Gretchen Ruben, and in today's episode, we

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Speaker 3: talked about how she came to be this expert, how

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Speaker 3: she came to be the person that people think about

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Speaker 3: going to when they want to get happier in their

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Speaker 3: own lives.

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Speaker 2: So much goodness in here.

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Speaker 3: She gives us her backstory about how she was once

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Speaker 3: clerking for Sandra Day O'Connor living in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 2: When she realized that she wanted to write a book.

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Speaker 3: And you know, it's so interesting her approach to going

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Speaker 3: to write her first book and when she literally bought

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Speaker 3: a book about how to write a book and follow

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Speaker 3: the steps and before you know it, well, I think

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Speaker 3: you can assume what happened next. Gretchen and I talk

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Speaker 3: about everything from how to make a career pivot in

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Speaker 3: your own life, how people can take steps to being

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Speaker 3: happier in this quote unquote new normal that we're in

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Speaker 3: the power of asking tough questions.

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Speaker 2: We also talk about how.

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Speaker 3: She gave up sugar a little bit of a side

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Speaker 3: note here and how that helped her, and of course

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Speaker 3: not so surprising how you can get happier in your

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Speaker 3: day to day. I mean, if you are looking for

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Speaker 3: an episode with endless takeaways, this really it's the one

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Speaker 3: so so grateful for Gretchen and all of her insight,

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Speaker 3: all of her goodness that she's sharing with you. And

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Speaker 3: also Gretchen wanted to gift you all a little bit

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Speaker 3: of a discount. She has a new line of journals

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Speaker 3: that you can check out. We talk about them in

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Speaker 3: the episode, and she is offering the Hurdlers a promo

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Speaker 3: code for ten percent and off, So simpenly head on

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Speaker 3: over to the dash Happiness dashproject dot com or visit

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Speaker 3: Gretchenreuben dot com and click the Happiness Project tab to

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Speaker 3: snag yourself one today use the code Hurdle at check

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Speaker 3: out to get ten percent off. So many good picks here.

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Speaker 3: I highly recommend you head on over and check them out.

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Speaker 2: Now before we.

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Speaker 3: Get into it today, I do want to give some

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Speaker 3: love to one of the newest sponsors on the show,

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Speaker 3: and that is Revtown. Now, you may have seen me

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Speaker 3: absolutely rave about Revtown before on Social Revtown's mission is

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Speaker 3: to make your favorite pair of genes, and I can

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Speaker 3: say that they definitely make mine. They are inherently naturally inclusive,

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Speaker 3: They're accessible to women and men of all sorts, and

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Speaker 3: they are one hundred percent dedicated to comfort in self

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Speaker 3: and style. I am obsessed with the way that these

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Speaker 3: genes fit as someone who I would say I have

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Speaker 3: an athletic bill, I've got a lot of loving in

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Speaker 3: the thigh area, but a smaller waste situation. And so

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Speaker 3: I appreciate that Reptown makes their denim with different body

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Speaker 3: types in mind, not to mention they have created styles

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Speaker 3: that are definitely on trend, but they're not like trying

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Speaker 3: too hard sometimes, Like I love a ripped denim, for example,

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Speaker 3: But sometimes I go to put on a pair of jeans.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, is this trendy or.

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Speaker 3: Do I look like I got into a fight with

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Speaker 3: a weed whacker. My dad would tell you that he

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Speaker 3: thinks that ripped jeans are basically the latter. Anyway, huge

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Speaker 3: fan of Revtown and I wanted to talk to you

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Speaker 3: all about them, and I give them some love.

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Speaker 2: So head on over to Revtown.

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Speaker 3: USA dot com to check them out for yourself. They

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Speaker 3: call them the most comfortable genes on the planet. I

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Speaker 2: You won't regret it.

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Speaker 3: Make sure you're following along with Hurdle on social. It's

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Speaker 3: over at Hurdle podcast. I am over at Emily a Body.

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Speaker 3: If you missed it, I announced the winners of last

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Speaker 3: week's Season seven premier giveaway over on the Weekly Hurdle newsletter.

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Speaker 3: A link to subscribe is in the show notes, so

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Speaker 3: make sure you click on over there to claim your

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Speaker 3: prize if you haven't done so yet, and of course

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Speaker 3: still timed to join the Hurdle membership for things kickoff

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Speaker 3: on October first, Head on over to hurdle dot us

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Speaker 3: slash membership for information about all of that. And last,

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Speaker 3: a little bit of housekeeping here, make sure you are

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Speaker 3: in on Hurdle's new subscription SMS service. To get in

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Speaker 3: on that, text the word welcome to seven three to

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Speaker 3: Hurdler again, that is seven three to Hurdler. Text the

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Speaker 3: word welcome to subscribe to keep up to date with

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Speaker 3: all the latest exciting news from Hurdle going forward. I

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Speaker 3: think that's it for now with that. Let's get to hurdling.

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Speaker 2: Today.

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Speaker 3: I'm sitting down with Gretchen Ruben. I feel like she

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Speaker 3: needs no introduction, but you may all know of her

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Speaker 3: from her slew of blockbuster titles New York Times bestsellers.

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Speaker 3: I'm talking better than before the Happiness Project The Four Tendencies,

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Speaker 3: also podcaster behind Happier Gretchen Ruben, how are we?

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy to be talking to you.

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Speaker 3: I hope this brings you happiness. I hope we're both

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Speaker 3: working on our happiness together.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely now, I'm really looking forward to the conversation. I

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Speaker 1: know we're interested in so many of the same things.

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Speaker 3: We are we are, and I also know that we

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Speaker 3: have a mutual interest in I'm just going to throw

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Speaker 3: this out here, the word juj.

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Speaker 1: This I for the very first time it came out

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Speaker 1: of my mouth, and I was like, wait, what you know,

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Speaker 1: what just happened? I didn't even know how to spell it.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, how did I use it? If? This is

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Speaker 1: how culture happens, right, Like how you you pick these

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Speaker 1: things up without even realizing it. And then it's like

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Speaker 1: it's to like make something look a little more attractive

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Speaker 1: by making like a slate change and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I even used it correctly in a sentence, just like

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Speaker 1: in the fourth grade spelling test.

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Speaker 3: Yes, now I love Josh's obscenely difficult to spell.

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Speaker 2: Let it be known.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna correctly spell it for the hurdlers who may

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Speaker 3: want to write it down use it in their own sentence.

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Speaker 2: Z h U z H. Who came up with that just.

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Speaker 3: Like it sounds anyway? Also, we just need to, you know,

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Speaker 3: double click on this for a second. You recently spoke

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Speaker 3: with my dear friend Liz Plosser.

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Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, well, small world.

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Speaker 2: Small, small world. She was recently on the show.

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Speaker 3: This is actually my former boss from when I worked

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Speaker 3: at Self magazine. It's been quite some time since those days.

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Speaker 3: But so excited for her and her new book, Own

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Speaker 3: Your Morning, and love to see when all of the

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Speaker 3: circles kind of overlap in the good work that.

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Speaker 2: We're both trying to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so fun.

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Speaker 3: So, Gretchen Rubin, I mean again, like I said, I

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Speaker 3: feel like you need no introduction, but in order for

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Speaker 3: us to get to a lot of the topics that

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Speaker 3: we want to talk about, talking about career pivoting and

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Speaker 3: how people can take steps to be happy in this

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Speaker 3: quote unquote new version of normal. I think it's really

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Speaker 3: helpful if we do a little bit of a backstory dive.

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Speaker 3: So why don't we talk a little bit about how

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Speaker 3: you got into being the person that people think about

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Speaker 3: when they want to talk about getting happier.

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Speaker 1: Well, it was kind of a multi step process. I

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Speaker 1: started my career in law, and I was actually clerking

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Speaker 1: for Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor on the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court when I got an idea that ended up turning

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Speaker 1: out to be my first book. But at that time,

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Speaker 1: I didn't foresee myself becoming a writer. I didn't even

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Speaker 1: know that I was researching a book. I just one

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Speaker 1: of the things that's true about me, and it's been

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Speaker 1: true my whole life is I'll get very interested in

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Speaker 1: a subject, and I'll do a ton of reading and researching,

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Speaker 1: and I'll take a lot of notes. That's just sort

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Speaker 1: of my thing. So I was out of my lunch

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Speaker 1: break one day, I was walking around the Capitol and

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Speaker 1: I thought, what am I interested in That everybody in

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Speaker 1: the world is interested. It's just like a hypothetical question

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Speaker 1: for me. And I thought, well, power, money, fame, sex,

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Speaker 1: and I was like power, Money, Fame, Sex, and I

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Speaker 1: instantly just started researching and researching and researching what seemed

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Speaker 1: to me to be like these very linked ideas. And

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Speaker 1: so this was familiar to me to kind of get

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Speaker 1: preoccupied with an idea and really go deep into it.

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Speaker 1: But this just got bigger and bigger and bigger, and

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Speaker 1: so at a certain point I thought, well, this is

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Speaker 1: the kind of thing a person would be doing if

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Speaker 1: they were going to write a book. And then I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe I could write that book. And I went to

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Speaker 1: a bookstore and got a book called something like how

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Speaker 1: to Write and Sell Your Nonfiction Book Proposal, and I

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Speaker 1: followed the directions, and Power, Many, Fame, Sex was indeed

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Speaker 1: my first book. A lot of people think that The

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Speaker 1: Happiness Project was my first book, and like many people,

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Speaker 1: I was an overnight sensation ten year after ten years

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Speaker 1: of working, and so actually The Happiness Project was my

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Speaker 1: fourth book. So I wrote my first book that I

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Speaker 1: wrote a biography of Winston Churchill and a biography of

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Speaker 1: John F. Kennedy, and I wrote a sort of a

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Speaker 1: strange art book called Profane Waste. And then one day

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Speaker 1: I thought, what do I want from life? Anyway? I

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Speaker 1: want to be happy, but I don't spend any time

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Speaker 1: thinking about how I can be happier or if you

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Speaker 1: can make yourself happier. Then I got very preoccupied with

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Speaker 1: that question, went to the running to the library, I

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Speaker 1: got a giant stack of books, started researching happiness, and

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Speaker 1: then one day it occurred to me, well, I've just

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Speaker 1: been doing this for myself, but maybe this should be

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Speaker 1: my next book, my happiness project. And that's how I

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Speaker 1: turn my attention into happiness and good habits and all

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Speaker 1: the things that flow from the larger subjects of happiness.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: So, I mean, the first question I have is did

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Speaker 3: you grow up being a super inquisitive person, because it

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Speaker 3: seems as though this is the kind of behavior that

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Speaker 3: someone would need to see modeled to kind of act

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Speaker 3: on it and feel comfortable saying like, you know what

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Speaker 3: I'm going to do, I'm going to do X. Like

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Speaker 3: it seemed like you were so sure in your steps.

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Speaker 1: Well, I was a huge reader. I mean I've been

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Speaker 1: a huge reader my whole life, and I majored in English,

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Speaker 1: and so I did a lot of things that a

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Speaker 1: person would do. And actually going to law school, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot you have to unlearn about writing if you're

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Speaker 1: trained as a lawyer. But there's a lot of good

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Speaker 1: things that you learn about writing and logical argument and

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Speaker 1: research from being a lawyer. I didn't have a model

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Speaker 1: for this, And it's funny you mentioned I have a

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Speaker 1: podcast Happier with Gretchen Rubin. My co host is my sister,

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Kraft. She's five years younger than I am, and

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Speaker 1: now she's a showrunner and TV producer in Hollywood, so

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Speaker 1: she's a TV writer. But right out of college she

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Speaker 1: started writing kind of pulp fiction for teenagers. And so

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Speaker 1: even though I was five years older, she was really

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Speaker 1: a model for me of someone who was a professional writer.

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Speaker 1: That was her job was to write. And at that time,

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Speaker 1: as funny as it is for me now to think

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Speaker 1: of this, at that time, I didn't know anybody who

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Speaker 1: wrote books, and so it was very helpful for me

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Speaker 1: to be like, well, Elizabeth is doing this in a

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Speaker 1: different way, but you know, same deal. I think that

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Speaker 1: was very helpful for me to imagine myself moving forward

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Speaker 1: like that.

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Speaker 2: So so special.

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Speaker 3: And then you mentioned obviously clerking and being in Washington,

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Speaker 3: DC a huge career pivot to go from that trajectory

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Speaker 3: to deciding you know what I'm going to write, So

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Speaker 3: talk to me about perhaps some of the hesitancy, if any,

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Speaker 3: that you had during that period, and advice that you'd

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Speaker 3: give for someone else who's interested in making a career

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Speaker 3: pivot of their own.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's one of these things where you

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Speaker 1: put one foot in front of the other until looking back,

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Speaker 1: it seems like much more not dramatic, but but it's

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Speaker 1: more and more abrupt. Because at the time I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: why don't I get this book? And like what does

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Speaker 1: it take? Well, and then I'm like, oh, I guess

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Speaker 1: I would need to get an agent. How does a

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Speaker 1: person get an agent? You know, it puts step by step,

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Speaker 1: So I think one thing is to take it step

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Speaker 1: by step and don't expect yourself to get from A

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Speaker 1: to Z overnight. But I did have a moment where

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Speaker 1: I was starting to think about this and and I

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Speaker 1: you know, and I thought, this, if there was ever

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Speaker 1: a time when my clerkship comes to an end, and

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Speaker 1: I had taken another really cool job at the Federal

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Speaker 1: Communications Commission, but it was also it was short, and

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Speaker 1: it was also coming to an end. It was like,

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Speaker 1: this is my opening, Like if I'm ever going to

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Speaker 1: take this risk. Now is the time to try, because

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Speaker 1: I have this sort of natural opening, and it occurred

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Speaker 1: to me, you know, at this point I would rather

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Speaker 1: fail as a writer than succeed as a lawyer. This

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Speaker 1: is my time to either succeed or fail. And one

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Speaker 1: of the things about not trying is then you don't

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Speaker 1: risk failure, but then you can't succeed. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: I wanted just if I'm going to fail, I want

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Speaker 1: to just like fail and move on. I didn't like

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Speaker 1: sort of being in this liminal state where like where

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Speaker 1: I was sort of neither one thing or the other.

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Speaker 1: And so one thing I would say to people is

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Speaker 1: to like move forward, you know, take steps forward. And

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Speaker 1: a question that I often ask myself when you're sort

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Speaker 1: of like, well should I do this or not? You know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes sometimes it can feel very hard to decide even

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Speaker 1: how to think about a choice that you're facing. I

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Speaker 1: often say to myself, choose the bigger life. And only

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Speaker 1: you know what the bigger life is for you, and

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Speaker 1: different people could have it, you know, the bigger life

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Speaker 1: for someone what else would have been a legal career, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: But when I framed the question for myself that way,

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Speaker 1: it was obvious to me that if I could make

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Speaker 1: a go of it, the bigger life was to be

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Speaker 1: the life of to have the life of a writer.

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Speaker 1: And so that's kind of clarifying because sometimes I don't

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Speaker 1: know about but like my pros and cons lists are

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Speaker 1: often very evenly balanced, and I'm like, I can't reason

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Speaker 1: my way out of this decision, you know, It's like

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Speaker 1: I can't do it on the on the facts and

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Speaker 1: the numbers. I have to find a way to try

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Speaker 1: to plumb my depths and that's hard.

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Speaker 3: And I mean this idea of I would rather be

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Speaker 3: happy trying something that's unknown, versus unhappy in you know,

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Speaker 3: the comfortable I think that so many struggle from leaving,

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Speaker 3: you know, that place of comfort to go towards something

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Speaker 3: else that they want.

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Speaker 1: Well, but here's the thing about being happy, I think

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Speaker 1: sometimes and I couldn't say this if I were a scientist,

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Speaker 1: but happiness does not always make us feel happy. And

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Speaker 1: so if you say, like, I'll be happy if I

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Speaker 1: give up my legal job and try writing, well, you're

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Speaker 1: not probably going to feel very happy. You're probably going

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Speaker 1: to feel insecure and anxious and kind of like uninformed

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Speaker 1: and out of your depth, and everybody knows what's going on,

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Speaker 1: and everybody got the secret memo and what happened to

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Speaker 1: me when I felt like I was on the top

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Speaker 1: of my game and I knew what I was doing.

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Speaker 1: It might not make you feel happy like in terms

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Speaker 1: of like, oh I feel good right now. It's more

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Speaker 1: it's a kind of happiness that's more like I'm living

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Speaker 1: up to the life that I want for myself, and

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Speaker 1: that that is often very painful.

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Speaker 3: But I mean as someone and I think that you

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Speaker 3: and I kind of operate in the same way. From

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Speaker 3: the bit I know about you and from listening to you,

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Speaker 3: there's so much thrill in like hunting your own potential

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Speaker 3: when you're willing to take that leap, right.

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Speaker 1: But some people don't like thrills. I don't know that

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Speaker 1: I'm a person who's thrill seeking or adventure seeking, you know.

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Speaker 1: I just think sometimes you do something because you know

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Speaker 1: it's what you want, and you just sort of accept

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Speaker 1: that sometimes things just maybe just don't feel that good,

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Speaker 1: like as they're unfolding for a while. I think for

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Speaker 1: some people it does, and it's really exciting and fun.

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Speaker 1: I happen not to be one of those kinds of people,

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Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean it has to stop you from

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Speaker 1: going after what you want.

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Speaker 3: So for you, in those first maybe months or a

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Speaker 3: couple of years after making this pivot, what would you

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Speaker 3: say were the biggest hurdles for you?

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Speaker 1: Well, the biggest hurdles was I didn't know what to do.

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Speaker 1: You know, I had a book, and I'm the kind

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Speaker 1: of person who's really good at like taking a book

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Speaker 1: and following directions. But it's one thing to read like

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Speaker 1: a paragraph in a book, and it's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I didn't other thing to turn that into into uh,

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Speaker 1: into action. And so part of it was I just

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Speaker 1: I was entering an entirely new field, and so I

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Speaker 1: had to try to become more knowledgeable about I mean,

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Speaker 1: I knew tons and tons about literature and books and reading,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't know about the book industry. And so

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Speaker 1: one of the things I would say to anybody is

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Speaker 1: really educate yourself on like if you want to have

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Speaker 1: a job in that industry, you have to think about, like, well,

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Speaker 1: how does that industry work, what are the what's everybody

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Speaker 1: in that If you were in that field, what would

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Speaker 1: be the big news that you would be talking about

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Speaker 1: how do people think about things? Like one mistake I

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Speaker 1: see a lot of new writers making is they think

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Speaker 1: what people care about is how how intensely I want

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Speaker 1: to write, how deeply committed I am to my subject.

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Speaker 1: But you see, if you're an agent or an editor,

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Speaker 1: what you really worry about is is there an audience

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Speaker 1: for this book? Are people going to be excited to

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Speaker 1: read this book? Are you a person who can actually

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Speaker 1: complete this book? So they're thinking about different things. Both

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Speaker 1: of those things are important, but I think sometimes people don't,

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Speaker 1: you know, you have to think about, well, how do

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Speaker 1: I fit my If I want this to be my profession,

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Speaker 1: how do I think about this in terms of doing

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Speaker 1: it professionally, Because there's some things that you do that

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Speaker 1: you love to do that you wouldn't do professionally. But

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Speaker 1: then sometimes maybe you want to think about you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like if you love to do photography and then

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Speaker 1: you're like, now I want to switch to be a

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Speaker 1: wedding photographer. Well, now you have a whole bunch of

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Speaker 1: new skills that you need, which you can get, but

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Speaker 1: you start needing to think about what's the business of

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Speaker 1: being a wedding photographer? Not just like Ooh, maybe I'll

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Speaker 1: put another tree in the foreground. It's like, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: still important, but there's this other thing too.

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Speaker 2: There's this other thing too.

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Speaker 3: And then in this I I'm curious to know if

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Speaker 3: you struggled with the idea of feeling like you weren't

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Speaker 3: doing enough while you were trying to figure it out.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I was always trying to do more. I

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Speaker 1: was always trying to do whatever whatever I could. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I did have the feeling like is there more?

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Speaker 1: Is there more? What should I be doing? Sometimes it's

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Speaker 1: painful to be like I would do more, but I

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Speaker 1: don't know what to do, you know. I think that's

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Speaker 1: also very frustrating when you think I want to go

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Speaker 1: the extra mile, but I don't even know what direction

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Speaker 1: to go in, Which is why I think getting as

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Speaker 1: educated as you can be kind of can help you

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Speaker 1: manage that kind of anxiety, because the more you know,

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Speaker 1: the more you're like, oh, I see what I could

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Speaker 1: do that would be a good use of my time

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Speaker 1: and my energy, and I see the things that I

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Speaker 1: don't need to worry about, you know. There the more

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Speaker 1: the more you bring to it, the more you can

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Speaker 1: get from it.

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Speaker 3: And I know, in writing The Happiness Project you talked

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Speaker 3: about not necessarily at all becoming an overnight success, but

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Speaker 3: maybe it looking that way. I know, in writing The

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Speaker 3: Happiness Project you did something that a lot of authors

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Speaker 3: don't conventionally do, which is draft a lot of this

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Speaker 3: book about the whole book before really signing a book deal.

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Speaker 2: Correct, Yes, so talk to me about that process.

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Speaker 1: Well, this has happened to me more than more than once.

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Speaker 1: I will say that where I can't really dis like

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Speaker 1: when you're trying to get somebody to buy a book,

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Speaker 1: and you know, get excited about a book, you have

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Speaker 1: to explain what it is, and you have to do

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Speaker 1: the whole elevator pitch where you can really sum it

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Speaker 1: up and crisply convey it. And a lot of times

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Speaker 1: I'm sort of like, I don't think I can really

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Speaker 1: explain it until I've written it. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: I think until I write it, and I don't know

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Speaker 1: what to think. And by the time I know what

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Speaker 1: I think, the book will be written, and so I

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Speaker 1: have a hard time kind of knowing what I think

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Speaker 1: in advance. I think some people know very very well

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Speaker 1: what they think, and then they're just writing what they think,

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Speaker 1: whereas a lot of times I'm sort of trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out and I'm often very surprised by what I find.

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Speaker 1: I often find things that I didn't expect to find,

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Speaker 1: or things that I thought were true weren't true. So well,

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Speaker 1: like my book Better Than Before is all about it

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Speaker 1: have it change how we can make or break our habits?

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Speaker 1: That book I was able to explain what it would be,

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Speaker 1: but I because I could describe it even though I

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Speaker 1: didn't know the structure and exactly what my conclusions would be.

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Speaker 1: It's like, Okay, do you want to learn how to

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Speaker 1: master your habits? Because I'm going to figure that out.

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Speaker 1: But I certainly wouldn't have been able to say, what's

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Speaker 1: the framework that I'm going to use to describe that

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Speaker 1: answer because I took me. I had to write a

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Speaker 1: whole book before I really probably had to write two

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Speaker 1: books to get the one book to decide what I thought.

436
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it makes sense, and especially because of

437
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 3: like the concept and the whole framework of the Happiness Project.

438
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 3: For those who may be unfamiliar, If there are any

439
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 3: listening to the pod, why don't you talk a little

440
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,199
Speaker 3: bit about what the Happiness Project really is?

441
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,880
Speaker 1: So It was a year long experiment that I did

442
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 1: on myself. I was my own guinea pig to try

443
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 1: to see, you know, is it possible to make yourself happier, healthier,

444
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,200
Speaker 1: more productive, more creative? You know, what is happiness? Could

445
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,360
Speaker 1: I make myself happier? And if I could make myself happier,

446
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:59,160
Speaker 1: what would I do? And what would I try to adjust?

447
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 1: Or you know, what would I try to have more

448
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 1: of or less of? And so I figured that a

449
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 1: year was the kind of the right amount of time

450
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 1: for there to be real change, but it felt manageable,

451
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 1: and so I gave every month a theme related to happiness,

452
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,640
Speaker 1: something that I wanted to work on. So it might

453
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,640
Speaker 1: have been friendship or energy, and then I would give

454
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 1: myself a handful of concrete, manageable resolutions to try that

455
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,959
Speaker 1: I thought would help my happiness in that area. And

456
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:29,120
Speaker 1: so it's very practical and very much like what can

457
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 1: you do tomorrow without spending a lot of time, energy

458
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 1: or money, you know. So it's not like I'm going

459
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,879
Speaker 1: to go on a three week silent meditation retreat, because

460
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, I really have to have things that I

461
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: can do as part of my ordinary day, as part

462
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 1: of my ordinary routine. But it turns out that for

463
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 1: me and I and since the books come out, I've

464
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:48,640
Speaker 1: talked to so many people, for most of us, there's

465
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 1: a lot of low hanging fruit. There's plenty of things

466
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: that we can do to move the needle, to make

467
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,120
Speaker 1: ourselves happier within the context of our ordinary day, even

468
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 1: if we're very, very busy.

469
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 3: And I think that that's like what makes the whole

470
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,719
Speaker 3: concept so accessible, right, I mean, you approached it in

471
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 3: such a way that the everyday person or someone who

472
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 3: you know relates to you can certainly go and create

473
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 3: their own happiness project of sorts. And in setting you know,

474
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 3: the themes so to speak, are choosing each value for

475
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 3: every month. How did you settle on those twelve specifics.

476
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: Well, that's a really interesting question because you know, I

477
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 1: picked the things where I thought I had the most

478
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: to gain in terms of happiness, but other people would

479
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 1: pick other things. So, for instance, I've never been a

480
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 1: person who's particularly inclined toward music, but for some people,

481
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: music is like an incredibly important element of their life.

482
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: And I've talked to many people where music with's a

483
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 1: whole theme. So they might have had like their resolutions

484
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: might have had things like get back into practicing an instrument,

485
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 1: or learn a new instrument, or join a group or

486
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,880
Speaker 1: a choir, or make an effort to listen to new

487
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 1: music consistently, or go to life concerts or you know,

488
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things you can do if you

489
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: want to bring that into your life more. For me,

490
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,679
Speaker 1: it didn't. It wasn't something that for me I wanted

491
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: to work on. And I would say that that's one

492
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 1: of the big things that I learned that surprised me

493
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,479
Speaker 1: is that we all want different things, Like we have

494
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: different interests and aims and values, and we all need

495
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 1: to get there in a different way. Like I love

496
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 1: to do something very consistently. If it's important to me,

497
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: I try to do it every single day. For me,

498
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: it's easier if something happens every single day. Other people

499
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: want to feel more spontaneity, they want to have a

500
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 1: different kind of approach, and so there is no magic,

501
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: one size fits all solution. And it's interesting because I've

502
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 1: talked to so many people. I created I've created these

503
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 1: new journals because I realized, like a lot of people

504
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 1: have the aim of like I want to keep a

505
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 1: journal that's a very very common resolution that people have,

506
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: whether they want a journal because they want reflection, or

507
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: they want a journal because they want to like track

508
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 1: how many miles they've run in a day. You know,

509
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 1: they want to keep some kind of record of their life.

510
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 1: And I realize people are very different. Some people want

511
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: to don't break the chain where they like check it

512
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: off if they did it, and they write down how

513
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: many miles and then they have like a little note

514
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: where they write and all the different roots they did,

515
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: or the different hikes they did, or you know like that.

516
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: And then some people want to write one sentence every day.

517
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: They don't want to keep a traditional journal where they're

518
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: writing a couple of pages. That's too much work. So

519
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: they want to write just one sentence. That's a great

520
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: way to keep a journal. There's you know, you don't

521
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 1: have to just because something doesn't work for you as

522
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: a method or a tool doesn't mean that you failed

523
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 1: at an aim. It just means like, Okay, well, is

524
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: there a different way that I could meet this aim?

525
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,959
Speaker 1: Because we have different aims and we also have different styles.

526
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean you're truly talking about the power

527
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 3: of habit right here. So for those that struggle to

528
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 3: create and maintain habits. They maybe get into something for

529
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 3: a week or two and then they fall off the bandwagon,

530
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 3: which can totally feel certainly discouraging. What helpful tools or

531
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 3: suggestions you have for them to get in the groove

532
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 3: and stay in the groove.

533
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 1: Right if you're trying, if you're struggling, as many people do,

534
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: to form a consistent habit, here's a couple things to

535
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 1: think about. I have a four tendencies framework that divides

536
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: people into upholders, questioners, obligers, and rebels. And if you

537
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: want to take a quiz and find out what you are,

538
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 1: you can go to Gretchen Reuben dot com slash four

539
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: tendencies and take a quick quiz there and find it

540
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 1: out and get a little report on yourself. It's very helpful.

541
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: I'm an uph oh Emily, I knew that ten minutes in,

542
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 1: and I love it because I'm an upholder too, so

543
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: we're on the same life. But so anyway, so that's

544
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: the quiz if you want to find that out and

545
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: understand what it means to be an upholder. So it's

546
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: all there. But what I will say, just sort of generally,

547
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: even if you don't know about those categories, is it?

548
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: For many many people, they really need outer accountability to

549
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: meet an inner expectation. So if you said your things

550
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: said to yourself, things like I always keep my promises

551
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: to other people, but I have trouble keeping my promises myself.

552
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: I have trouble making time for self care. I have

553
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: trouble putting myself first. I always give one hundred and

554
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: ten percent to my clients, or my customers, or my family,

555
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: but I don't have any time for me. Then what

556
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: I would say you need, I'm saying you're an obliger

557
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,199
Speaker 1: in my framework, and you need outer accountability even to

558
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: meet an inner expectation. So if you want to read more,

559
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: join a book group, if you want to go for

560
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: a run every day, go with a friend who's going

561
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: to be annoyed if you don't show up. You know,

562
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 1: work out with a trainer at a gym, raise money

563
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: for a charity. You know, you want to create a

564
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: system about our accountability. For some people, that is what

565
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: is necessary. So one thing to think about is like,

566
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: do do I do better when I have accountability? Because

567
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: some people do not. Rebels in my framework often do

568
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: not like to have accountability. They don't want somebody looking

569
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 1: over their shoulder. They don't want somebody knowing what they're

570
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 1: doing or putting things on the calendar particularly. But maybe

571
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: you know about yourself like, oh wow, I really do

572
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: do better when I'm in some kind of framework of accounability.

573
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 1: So that's one thing to think about and another thing

574
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: to think about. There is just hilarious research showing how

575
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: much more likely we are to do something if it's

576
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: even the teensiest, tiniest bit more convenient. So I've talked

577
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: to people who sleep in their workout clothes so they

578
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: don't have to get dressed in the morning. There's this

579
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 1: research showing that if there's a salad bar and people

580
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: have to use tongs instead of spoons, they take less

581
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 1: food because it's just a little bit more effort to

582
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: use tongues. So anything you can do to shave off,

583
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 1: if you can use a hook instead of a hangar,

584
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: if you can pay a little bit more for a

585
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 1: gym that's right across the street from your office, you know,

586
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: like when everything's back to normal, then one that's like

587
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: three blocks away. Any little bit of convenience tends to

588
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 1: make it easier. And you can also use it on

589
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: the opposite, any inconvenience makes it harder to do something.

590
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: So I've talked to people who wanted to watch less TV.

591
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: They weren't giving up TV, they wanted to watch less

592
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: so they put their remote control in a really inconvenient

593
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: place so they wouldn't just like, you know, be like, oh,

594
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: I'll just wander by and watch for five minutes because like, oh,

595
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: it's too much of a house to go get the remote,

596
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: you know. So anything you don't want yourself to do,

597
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,959
Speaker 1: make that inconvenient, because a lot of times just that

598
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: little bit of is all you need to kind of

599
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: turn your path. And that's when habits become automatic, you know, effortless.

600
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: There's no decision to fatigue.

601
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: It's just it just happens, product of our environment. You know.

602
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 2: It's interesting.

603
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 3: I feel like with one of the biggest habits so

604
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 3: to speak, or journeys that I went on when I

605
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 3: was younger, back in college, I lost a ton of

606
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 3: weight with the help of weight watchers. And for me

607
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 3: it was never now obviously called WW. It was never about, really,

608
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 3: to be honest with you, using the WW plan, as

609
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 3: it was about the fact that I had to show

610
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 3: up somewhere on like Tuesday nights and get on a

611
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 3: scale in front of another person. And that accountability factor

612
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 3: was the thing that helped me stay on track. Now

613
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 3: these days, I would say I have a lot more

614
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 3: intrinsic motivation. I have progressed along my journey and you know,

615
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 3: done my fair share of study reading and book reading

616
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 3: and talking and reflecting. And so it's interesting though, because

617
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 3: these different you know, archetypes are these different types of people,

618
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 3: are types of habit formation. You might be one way

619
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 3: for one thing and find that it's a little bit

620
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 3: different for something else.

621
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's interesting kind of along those lines. Another

622
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: distinction that I found when I was studying habits as

623
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: substainers and moderators, and this is when you're facing a

624
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: strong temptation, not a weak tempation, a strong temptation. So like,

625
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: I have a really really strong sweet tooth. And what

626
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: I found is that if you're an abstainer like me,

627
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: it's easier to have none. It's easier to give it

628
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,239
Speaker 1: up altogether than it is to have a little bit.

629
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: And so I could never understand like, oh, I just

630
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: have one little square of fine chocolate and that's all

631
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: I need. Who just have half of brownie, that's all

632
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: you want. I'm like, the minute I have half, I

633
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: want three. Yeo.

634
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: Same.

635
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: But moderators are different. They're the kind of people that

636
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: want the one square. They do better when they have

637
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: a little bit when they have it sometimes and they

638
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: get kind of panicky and rebellious if they're told they

639
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: can never have anything. And so and like, I'm a

640
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: moderator when it comes to something like wine. I don't

641
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: really care about wine, so I can have half a

642
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: glass of wine, whereas a friend of mine said it's

643
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: none or four glasses. There is no in between for me.

644
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: So you might be an abstainer about one kind of temptation,

645
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: but then other things you're like, eeah, it doesn't really matter.

646
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: But when I realized that I'm an abstainer, because all

647
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: these moderators were like clearly sincerely giving me this advice

648
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: that obviously didn't work for me, and I, as an abstainer,

649
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,239
Speaker 1: was like say to think people like why don't you

650
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: just give it up cold turkey? Why do you keep

651
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: breaking the rules, like like just get it off your plate.

652
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: And then finally I realized there's no one right way,

653
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: there's no one best way. It's just whatever is better

654
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: for you, And moderators don't understand that. For an abstainer

655
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: like me, abstaining is easier. It's the easier way. And

656
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to understand that for a moderator

657
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: that's easier. It's kind of hard to put yourself in

658
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: somebody else's shoes. But once you realize, like people are different, like, oh,

659
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: I'm married to somebody who's a moderator, but I'm an abstainer.

660
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: So now it's not about convincing someone else that I'm right.

661
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: It's about how do we create a situation where we

662
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: both thrive?

663
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 2: And that's such an important question. Right.

664
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 3: My father's the kind of guy that can keep like

665
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 3: six different flavors of ice creams in the freezer. Well

666
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 3: I'm sure some of them like have been in there,

667
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 3: no offend, but like maybe for a year.

668
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: Like the coverard with the crystals, and you're like, how

669
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: does this happen?

670
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 3: Now?

671
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 2: How does it happens?

672
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 3: It wouldn't stay that way in my home, not at all,

673
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 3: because again going back to what we were just talking

674
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 3: about a product of our environment.

675
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: Right, But see, for a moderator, it doesn't bother them

676
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: whereas like for an abstainer, it calls to you. You're like,

677
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: there's one just one bite, just two more bites, half

678
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: a bite of each flavor. You know what I mean.

679
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: It's Monday, it's my birthday, it's raining outside, I had

680
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: a terrible day. I've been so good. I'll be so

681
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: good starting tomorrow. Like there's a million things, but for

682
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: some people it's like I like knowing that it's there,

683
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: and if I have a little you know, I want

684
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: a little something sweet, Oh, it's go get a bite

685
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: or two. I'm like that works for you, and that's great.

686
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: But if there's somebody in the house you like truly

687
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: is just going to weigh on my mind in the

688
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: middle of the night, wake me up, and like I'm

689
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: going to be dragged in there by like the tractor

690
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: beam of the death Star. Like we got to figure

691
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: out how to work that out, you know, because because

692
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: we're different, and that's that's okay. We don't have to

693
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: agree on what's the best way. We just have to say, well,

694
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: this is how, this is what works for me.

695
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 3: Taking a quick break to talk to you about my sponsors.

696
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:33,400
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697
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700
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701
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Speaker 3: In my eyes, there is absolutely nothing better than feeling

702
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703
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Speaker 3: starting every single day with a fresh, blank notebook page.

704
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 2: It's where I drop.

705
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Speaker 3: My thoughts down in the Confident Journal and end every single.

706
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 2: Entry with a moment of gratitude. There are few things more.

707
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714
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716
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717
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 3: to give some love to my friends at inside Tracker. Now,

718
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 3: I am always seeking to do all the right things

719
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 3: for my body so I can provide more energy, better

720
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 3: and a healthy immune system. You know, I want to

721
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 3: live longer, I want to live better, and I want

722
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 3: to live healthier. So obviously I was super excited to

723
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 3: try out inside Tracker, which is an ultra personalized performance

724
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 3: system that analyzes data from your blood, DNA, lifestyle and

725
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 3: fitness tracker to help optimize your body and.

726
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 2: Reach your health and wellness goals. And I'll be a

727
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 2: little bit honest.

728
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 3: A couple months ago, I was feeling a little bit

729
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 3: sluggish when it came to my marathon training.

730
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 2: But with one mobile blood draw and a DNA swab.

731
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 3: Inside Tracker identified that I had lower iron and farrodin levels.

732
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 3: Not only that, they then transformed that data into meaningful

733
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 3: insights and customize and action plan for me with science

734
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 3: backed nutrition, fitness and lifestyle recommendations. I just got my

735
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 3: second blood draw last week and both my iron and

736
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 3: my farredin levels improved, and I'm feeling a whole lot

737
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 3: better when it comes to my workouts now. Of course,

738
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 3: inside Tracker is offering hurdlers and I'm amazing discount. Head

739
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 3: on over to insidetracker dot com slash hurdle and you

740
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 3: will receive twenty five percent off the entire Inside Trucker

741
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 3: store for a limited time. Again, that is I N

742
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 3: S I D E t R A c K e

743
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 3: r dot com slash hurdle to receive twenty five percent

744
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,760
Speaker 3: off the entire store.

745
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 2: Let's get back to it.

746
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 3: Let's go back a little bit to your story and

747
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 3: talk about after the Happiness Project comes out, how are

748
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 3: you feeling at this point, because again we've referenced a

749
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 3: couple of times now it's seemingly being this scenario where

750
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 3: it was like this woman came out of nowhere and

751
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 3: she is brilliant and oh my goodness. And you're like,

752
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 3: I've been here, but dot dot always great.

753
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: I mean, because your big here as a writer is

754
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: that you can't keep going, you know. So you're like,

755
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: You're like, I want to be able to write, keep writing.

756
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: And I am so lucky because every book that I write,

757
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: I say to myself many times when I'm writing it,

758
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: It'll never be this good again. This is the best

759
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 1: it's ever going to get. I'm never going to be

760
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 1: so interested in a subject. This is never going to

761
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: be so juicy, I'm so delicious. I Am never going

762
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 1: to have this much fun again. And then with my

763
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: next book, I'm like, oh my goodness, this is the best.

764
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: Now I'm at the top, Now I'm at the most

765
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: interesting subject. So I'm really fortunate because all my books

766
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: kind of naturally have led into the next book, and

767
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 1: so I'm never sort of like anxiously awaiting some kind

768
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: of lightning bolt. I'm always sort of like already starting

769
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 1: to think about something and get interested in something, and

770
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: then I poke around and a lot of you know,

771
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: I have to figure out like what what how, what

772
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: my way in is or kind of what my what

773
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 1: my what my perspective is on something. But I've always

774
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: but I always know sort of what the next thing

775
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 1: is going to be. And that is one thing when

776
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: I was growing up, my father would always say to

777
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,040
Speaker 1: my sister and me, enjoy the process, meaning if you

778
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: enjoy the process, outcomes don't matter as much. It's not

779
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: that they're not important, but it's like everything doesn't stand

780
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 1: or fall on an outcome if you've enjoyed the process.

781
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: And that's definitely true as a writer, because I've had

782
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: some books do very well, I've had some book. If

783
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: a book flops, what they tell you is that it

784
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: fails to it failed to find its audience. That's the

785
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: delicate way they tell you. And that thing was a

786
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: big flop. So I've had books that failed to find

787
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: their audience. But because I have enjoyed the process so much,

788
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: I still have enjoyed it. You know, I'm still like

789
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: I loved that book. I loved writing that book, and

790
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 1: now I've got something else that I'm really really excited about.

791
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: And so and writers will often give that advice to

792
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: each other. It's like, don't hang all your hopes on

793
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: this book, like have your next your next book. And

794
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: so you're excited and you're moving forward because you don't

795
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: want to get too hung up on something that's really,

796
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 1: in many ways outside your control, and so you want

797
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: to you just want to manage your expectations and just

798
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: keep moving forward. It's a milestone and in the life

799
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: of a writer. But it's not it's not like everything

800
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 1: rises or falls on like what happens like in a

801
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:08,280
Speaker 1: particular month.

802
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I'd love to wrap on this concept

803
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 3: for just a second because I actually it's super applicable

804
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:15,720
Speaker 3: to something that I'm going through, and I know something

805
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 3: that many individuals struggle with pinning all of your perhaps

806
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,280
Speaker 3: self proclaimed success on the outcome that is uncontrollable.

807
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 2: Like, all you can do.

808
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 3: Is poor whatever you can and whatever you have into

809
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 3: something and hope for the best. Right, do everything you

810
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 3: can within your power to, as my family motto is,

811
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 3: to do good. Right now, I'm dealing with an injury.

812
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,320
Speaker 3: I'm supposed to run a marathon in two and a

813
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 3: half weeks. I think we're under that now, and I'm

814
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 3: at a place actually where I'm quite at peace with

815
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 3: whatever decision that I'm going to have to call in

816
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,919
Speaker 3: the next week or so, because I like you as

817
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 3: you're referencing, really take appreciation for the process that got

818
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 3: me here, right and the things that I gained in

819
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 3: the opportunity costs that go hand in hand with running

820
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,800
Speaker 3: the marathon, not basing all the success on that final event.

821
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 3: For individuals who struggle with this mindset, perhaps you know,

822
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 3: as many would call it at times, a growth mindset.

823
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 3: What is it that you tell them to help them

824
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 3: kind of get over that hurdle.

825
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: Well, one thing I'll tell them, because I tell it

826
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: to myself all the time, like whatever your aim is,

827
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: Like your aim is to run that marathon. My aim

828
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 1: is like writing a book that finds its audience. There

829
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,760
Speaker 1: are almost always there are many ways for that to succeed.

830
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: So you're running a marathon, and there are many ways

831
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: this for this marathon to succeed for you. One is

832
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: that you actually run it and you have a wonderful adventure,

833
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: and that's really exciting, and that's something that you hope

834
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 1: will happen. But if you've enjoyed the process, one of

835
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: the ways that it's succeeded is that it has already

836
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: succeeded because you've had all the training and all the

837
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 1: planning that you've been doing along the way. And another

838
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: way that it's succeeded is that it's keeping you connected

839
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: to your identity as a runner and being part of

840
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: this group of people who are marathoners. And that's like

841
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: an exciting that's an excite. I'm sure that's a very

842
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: and identity that I identify with, but I sound seems very

843
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: cool from the outside. It's a really you know, it's

844
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: a passionate identity. If people are really committed to that,

845
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: that's a way to succeed. And even the idea that like,

846
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: you know what, I've come to a point where I

847
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: am not going to overtrain. And you've probably made that

848
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 1: mistake in the past where like you didn't listen to

849
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: your body and you took two steps forward and ten

850
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: steps back. I had a friend who loved running so

851
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: much that instead of being you know, off on the

852
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 1: sidelines for two weeks, it was six months because she

853
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: like rebroke her toe and it was this whole, big,

854
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: huge thing that you can be Like, one way that

855
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 1: this succeeded is that I handled it in the way

856
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: that's right for me in the long term. And so

857
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: I've learned from my mistakes and this is going to

858
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 1: help me going forward. There maybe I'll write an article

859
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 1: about it, I'll do a podcast about it and talk

860
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: about going through this, and many many people will benefit

861
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: from my experience and like their lives will be happier

862
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: and healthier because of what I learned from going through this.

863
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: That's a huge success. So there are many ways for

864
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: something to succeed. And so if you just pick one metric,

865
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 1: like on this morning, am I going to get up

866
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: and run a marathon? Yes? Or no? Well, that's a

867
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,919
Speaker 1: very narrow window of success. But if you think, well,

868
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 1: how are other ways that this? What else? There are

869
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: many ways for this to succeed for me, many many

870
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 1: elements of it leading off in all different directions, and

871
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: some of which I might not even be able to foresee.

872
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 1: At this point, I have to kind of go through

873
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: it and then see what comes of it. A lot

874
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: of times very unexpected things happen.

875
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 3: You know, did you yourself lean into community a lot

876
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 3: during those quote unquote flop moments for the books?

877
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: Well, you know, at that point, I didn't really have

878
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: a community because this was a while back, and so

879
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 1: I did. And in fact, but that's a very astute

880
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,760
Speaker 1: question because when my book it was called It's Forty

881
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: Ways to Look at JFK. It's a book that I love.

882
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 1: I'm very proud of that book. I loved writing it.

883
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: It didn't find its audience for reasons that I understand

884
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 1: now learned from that. But one of the things that

885
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: it taught me, and this is one of those things

886
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,439
Speaker 1: where what do you know what's good news and what's

887
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: bad news? Because sometimes that you think is like a

888
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 1: big failure ends up being really important to later success

889
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 1: or adventure. But I was so I felt so powerless.

890
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, there's so many people who are interested in

891
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: the life of JFK. I truly believe that I have

892
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: a book that they would be fascinated by, but I

893
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: can't tell them about the book. The only way I

894
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: can do it is if somebody writes a review of it.

895
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 1: Because this was like before the Internet and all this

896
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:19,760
Speaker 1: kind of you know, it was just as there was internet,

897
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 1: but like it wasn't where it is now. And then

898
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: I thought, you know what, I don't want to feel

899
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: this way again. I want to be in contact with

900
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: people who are interested in the same subjects that I am.

901
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: I want to be able to talk to people who

902
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,439
Speaker 1: share my interests about what I'm excited about and let

903
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: them know what I've done if I've done something that

904
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 1: I think they would be interested in too. And that's

905
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: what got me to start a blog so far back

906
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 1: when I started writing that Happiness, I did it because

907
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 1: I'm like, I want to reach out to people now

908
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 1: before I even have a book, and so that's when

909
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: I started to build that community because but it came

910
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: out of that feeling of I don't have a community,

911
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: and I wish so much that I did that. Now

912
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: going forward, I'm really going to figure out how to

913
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: create that. And of course and since then, I just

914
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,399
Speaker 1: have gonne deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper, because

915
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: I realized just like it's like like this vast, limitless

916
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: treasure trove resource, you know, source of enthusiasm and engagement.

917
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: So so I didn't think about it until you post

918
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: the question, but I think I guess, yes, I guess

919
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 1: it was my lack of community that got me to

920
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: create a community.

921
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,919
Speaker 3: How indicative of the kind of person that you are, right,

922
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 3: because for so many that feeling of loneliness often transfers

923
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 3: or transforms into great overwhelm and a little bit of

924
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 3: self loathing. So rather than lingering in that malise, so

925
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 3: to speak, you were like, Okay, I feel alone and

926
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 3: without and I'm going to do something about that.

927
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: Well, it's very true that this is this is something

928
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: that we talk about on the Happier podcast all the time,

929
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: that that action is the antidote to anxiety. And so

930
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,359
Speaker 1: often you're exactly right when you feel that anxiety, when

931
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 1: you feel overwhelmed or like maybe like oh oh gosh,

932
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: like I'm such a loser. It's not when you feel

933
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 1: like taking action or reaching out. But if you do,

934
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: if you can get yourself to take even a small step,

935
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 1: it often makes you feel much less anxious because you see,

936
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: like I'm taking action, I have my self efficacy, like

937
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: we'll see where this goes. It sort of gets you moving.

938
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 1: And I mean I remember very clearly when I started.

939
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: The first time I was on my blog, I'm like, well,

940
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: no one will ever see this, so it doesn't matter.

941
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 1: You know, stakes are very low. I'm just doing this

942
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: for like an experiment. I'm just doing like to poke around.

943
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: There's no audience, so you know who cares? Well, little

944
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 1: did I know. But it all happened very gradually too.

945
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: I think sometimes people are like, you know, we often

946
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 1: create a false choice or like it's either this or this.

947
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 1: It's either nowhere or it's overwhelming. I either have no

948
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: footprint or I'm going to be trolled by internet jerks morning,

949
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 1: noon and night for the rest of my life. It's like,

950
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: you think there's something in between that, because I really

951
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: don't think those are the only two paths that are

952
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: in front of you. You know, sometimes people catastrophize, so

953
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: a little bit of action often goes a long way

954
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 1: towards helping people with like when they're feeling anxiety.

955
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 2: A little bit of action goes a long way.

956
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 3: You also mentioned a buzzword before that I just want

957
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 3: to touch on quickly, and that is the word identity.

958
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 3: For many you know, there are circumstances beyond our control

959
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 3: that strip away a part of our identity, whether perhaps

960
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 3: you were a wife and now you're not a wife anymore,

961
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 3: or back to the example of like, I'm still a runner,

962
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 3: but I'm not currently running. For individuals who have to

963
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 3: struggle with that transition, although at times it might be

964
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 3: brief and for times it might be forever, how does

965
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 3: someone cope with that loss of identity?

966
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: This is such a profound question, and I have to

967
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: admit that I was years into the research on this

968
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 1: until I really understood how powerful, how absolutely significant this

969
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 1: idea of what what are your ideas? And we all

970
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 1: have multiple identities, so what are your identities? And sometimes

971
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,280
Speaker 1: and I mean, and it comes up in all different

972
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: complicated ways. And I'm sure you've seen this too with

973
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 1: the people you talk to, Like, sometimes people will be like, well,

974
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: I'm not really a yoga person, you know, I can't

975
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: claim to be a yoga person. I'm like, well, that's

976
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: kind of funny because to me, you do yoga three

977
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: or four times a week and you've been doing that

978
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: for a couple of years. And they're like, oh, but

979
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 1: you know, I can't really say that I'm doing I'm

980
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 1: a big yoga person. I'm like, heck, yes you can.

981
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: Like there's no accrediting body today. You know, yeah, your actions,

982
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: that is your identity. You should own that identity and

983
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 1: feel good about that identity. Then, sometimes people have identities

984
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 1: that are not good for them, where they're like they

985
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: kind of say like, oh, well, I could never do

986
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: that because you know, I'm so disorganized, I can never

987
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 1: put anything away. I'm like, well, don't you don't have

988
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 1: to buy into that identity so much, because then maybe

989
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: you you don't lean in when you feel the urge

990
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,399
Speaker 1: for organization. I mean that's that's obviously like a very

991
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 1: shallow kind of example. But but sometimes people have identities

992
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 1: that that sort of are stumbling box for them or

993
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: like make them feel like it's so core to their

994
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 1: identity that they have certain kind of behaviors that they

995
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 1: couldn't possibly break them. Like, just for an example, I

996
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: know somebody who said, well, I really identified as a baker,

997
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 1: like I'm the person bringing coo cookies and cupcakes and

998
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 1: I'm the one, you know, bringing desserts and surprising people

999
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,760
Speaker 1: on their birthdays. And she said, when I gave up sugar,

1000
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: I had to give up that identity, like I could

1001
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: cook in other ways, but that kind of sort of

1002
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 1: pastry baker I had to let go up. And she

1003
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: said that, like you say, even that was painful because

1004
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 1: it meant rethinking my identity. What does it mean if

1005
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: I can't be like I'm the fun, super fun baker

1006
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 1: now that I'm doing something that for her, she had

1007
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 1: developed diabetes. She really really wanted to do that, so

1008
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: she had to grapple with that identity and it is hard.

1009
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: Sometimes we do it by choice, as in her case,

1010
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 1: well sort of sort of her choice, sort of not

1011
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 1: her choice. Sometimes it's not your choice, like you're getting

1012
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 1: a divorce, like you say. Sometimes it's like, oh I

1013
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: blew out my knees and so now I can't do

1014
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: mountain climbing anymore because I just you know, so it

1015
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 1: was taken, you know it. It wasn't my choice to

1016
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 1: change that. And I think I think it's something to

1017
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: really think about and address and to acknowledge the pain

1018
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 1: of it, and then to think about, well, are there

1019
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 1: other identities that might be that might be related to that,

1020
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 1: or that might give me the same kind of satisfaction.

1021
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: Maybe I can't go mountain climbing anymore, but I could

1022
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: go walking. I could do a gentle hike. And that

1023
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: taps into my other an aspect of my identity, which

1024
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: is that I'd love to be out in nature. I

1025
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: want to be all alone and feel like there's no

1026
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: one around for miles and it's just me in the

1027
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: natural world. It's like, well, you can do that in

1028
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: other ways other than mountain climbing. That was one way,

1029
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 1: and you can't do that, and that is sad. But

1030
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: there are other ways to claim that identity for yourself

1031
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 1: in a way that works for you now. But it's

1032
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 1: surprised you, Like knowing myself is so easy, like who

1033
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: am I just hang out with myself all day long,

1034
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 1: like super obvious, But it's actually quite hard to know ourselves,

1035
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 1: and sometimes we don't want to admit things that we

1036
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 1: identify with or A friend of mine wanted to cut

1037
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: back on drinking. She didn't want to give up drinking,

1038
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 1: but she wanted to cut back, and she said, it's

1039
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: hard for me because I feel like I'm the fun one.

1040
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 1: I'm the one that says let's do it. I'm the

1041
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,799
Speaker 1: one that says let's order another rant. And I'm like,

1042
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 1: but you're still fun. You would always be fun. You're

1043
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 1: super fun. And she said, you know what, I am

1044
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: super fun. I'm like, you're super fun of breakfast, Like

1045
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 1: you don't need you know, it doesn't depend on that,

1046
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: you know, but she had to think that through.

1047
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I totally, I totally hear you.

1048
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,720
Speaker 3: I could literally talk to you in so many different

1049
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,839
Speaker 3: like directions for forever about everything. But you did mention

1050
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 3: something in here that I feel like is gonna be

1051
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 3: helpful touch on really quick, which is you were talking

1052
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 3: about the other woman who was trying to give up sugar.

1053
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,399
Speaker 3: And I know that this is something that you did,

1054
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 3: So if you have talked to us a little bit

1055
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 3: about what that experience was like for you and maybe

1056
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 3: some takeaways that you have from it, because I know

1057
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 3: that it is something that so many of us think

1058
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 3: about doing pretty regularly.

1059
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 1: I love it, I mean, and I'm not saying everybody

1060
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 1: would want to do it, or that everybody should do

1061
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 1: it or everybody would do it the way that I

1062
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: did it. I'm just so I'll just talk about my experience. Yeah,

1063
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 1: as I said, I have a very very strong sweet tooth,

1064
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: and it was just this noise in my head all

1065
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:19,359
Speaker 1: the time. Now later, more and more, one, two, three,

1066
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: does this count? What about this? And it was just

1067
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 1: sort of always nagging at me. And then I just decided,

1068
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: you don't have to give up sugar, and I basically

1069
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: give up all carbs. So I'm one of those I'm

1070
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: one of those bonkers low carb people that you read about,

1071
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: Like I really eat no carbs except for la nuts

1072
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: and vegetables. And I just loved it because then all

1073
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: that noise went out of my head. It was so boring,

1074
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: it was so draining. It's just like it's off the table,

1075
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:48,479
Speaker 1: and now I can go, I can have ice cream

1076
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: in the freezer and it doesn't bother me, and I

1077
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 1: can sit, you know, like at a table with a

1078
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: big plate of cookie fresh baked chocolate of cookies in

1079
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 1: the middle of the table and I'm not resisting it.

1080
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 1: I don't even notice them because I just gave up sugar.

1081
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:06,320
Speaker 1: So and so that really really works for me, and

1082
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 1: it just kind of it just kind of it made

1083
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 1: me enjoy food more because people were like, but you're

1084
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 1: giving up so much pleasure, and I'm like, for me,

1085
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:15,839
Speaker 1: it wasn't like that. For me. It's like I feel

1086
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 1: more pleasure now in food. It feels much less complicated

1087
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: and much less draining. And I also would have a

1088
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,399
Speaker 1: thing where I would get super hungry because I would

1089
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 1: have kind of spikes and drops and like shaking hungry.

1090
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: And now it's like a much more even kind of

1091
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: like gradual hunger mounting, which is just kind of in

1092
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 1: my day to day life. I just find it much

1093
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: more pleasant to like have that kind of pattern in

1094
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 1: my in my kind of my rhythm of my day.

1095
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 1: But what I would say, and again this kind of

1096
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 1: goes to standard moderator. For me as an abstainer, it

1097
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: was just like okay, that's off the table, and it

1098
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,439
Speaker 1: was not it was like okay, you know, like once

1099
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: I just knew I wasn't having any it was a

1100
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,879
Speaker 1: lot easier. I will say that for some people don't

1101
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 1: want to do it this way, and that don't break

1102
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 1: the change journal that I was talking about. A lot

1103
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 1: of people use it like that because they're like, well,

1104
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 1: maybe I don't want to do it every day, but

1105
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 1: I want to do it most days, So I want

1106
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 1: to have an easy where I can just like check

1107
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 1: it off, or like I want to track it, you know.

1108
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 1: Or sometimes when people are contemplating a big habit change

1109
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: like this, they want to kind of monitor their behavior

1110
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,839
Speaker 1: in advance, which is often very helpful to see like

1111
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 1: where am I now, Like maybe I think I do this,

1112
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: but I actually don't do that, Or maybe I actually

1113
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,800
Speaker 1: eat pretty healthy except on the weekends, and so maybe

1114
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 1: this is really a weekend problem, it's not like a

1115
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 1: whole week problem. Or maybe this is a travel problem,

1116
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 1: or maybe this is maybe I just maybe what I

1117
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 1: want to do is stop eating after dinner. Like in

1118
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 1: the United States, people eat a tremendous amount of like

1119
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 1: their daily intake after dinner. And so maybe you're like, well,

1120
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: look now that I like i'm tracking my habits, I'm

1121
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,399
Speaker 1: seeing that's a pattern. And so I think sometimes when

1122
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 1: people want to like tackle really big behavior change, thinking

1123
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: about it kind of like day to day what do

1124
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 1: I do and what do I want to do can

1125
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 1: be a really really helpful strategy for people who who

1126
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:07,959
Speaker 1: find it, find it easy to do. Like some people

1127
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 1: they're like, ah, no, like throw that thing away. I

1128
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:12,879
Speaker 1: do not want to use that. It's like, Okay, that's

1129
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 1: not gonna work for you. Fine, Like, don't try to

1130
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 1: force it. Find a different tool. But but I've just

1131
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: found over time, this streak approach and the and the

1132
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: kind of reflecting on what I do approach really for

1133
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: many people gives them a lot of insight and a

1134
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:29,359
Speaker 1: lot of.

1135
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 3: Motivation, right right, And I mean in this you're also

1136
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 3: saying that it's important to be honest with yourself and

1137
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 3: ask yourself tough questions.

1138
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:45,720
Speaker 1: Yes, oh yeah you speak I think you yes, yes people, yes, yes,

1139
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:47,360
Speaker 1: Well this is why it's really important to do it

1140
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: day to day. And and and researchers talk about this

1141
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,839
Speaker 1: problem all the time. They'll do research like yeah, what

1142
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: do you did? Where were you eating a month ago?

1143
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: And it's like people are just making that up. We

1144
00:54:56,160 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 1: have no idea, and we're wildly more likely to we

1145
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 1: tip the scales in our in our own favor, Like

1146
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 1: you know, you remember the things that you're Oh, I

1147
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 1: remember that you know that extremely healthy meal that I

1148
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 1: cooked after I went to the farmer's market and then

1149
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: you're like, those other things kind of slide out of

1150
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:17,359
Speaker 1: my mind. I don't I don't remember that that that

1151
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:22,399
Speaker 1: particular uh, you know, trip to the to the strip mall. Yes,

1152
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:25,840
Speaker 1: So absolutely honesty if you want, if you want to,

1153
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 1: if you want to improve things or know yourself better,

1154
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 1: we have to be honest. And it's hard. It's often

1155
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 1: very hard.

1156
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 2: It's often very hard.

1157
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:36,760
Speaker 3: I mean beyond talking to yourself about what you're eating

1158
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 3: and perhaps not being completely candid about writing all of

1159
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 3: those things down. The idea of asking tough questions is

1160
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:47,399
Speaker 3: actually really important, right, not just with yourself but with

1161
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:49,320
Speaker 3: other people in your life.

1162
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 2: So why don't we chat a little bit about that.

1163
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 3: I know that this is a category that you've done

1164
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 3: a little bit of work in as well.

1165
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 1: Yes, And so we were talking earlier about how it's

1166
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 1: kind of hard to know ourselves and one way you

1167
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 1: can kind of get an insight into yourself is by

1168
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 1: asking yourself a question that maybe kind of gives you

1169
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:11,279
Speaker 1: a perspective or or lends into yourself that you that

1170
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 1: you might not have noticed before. And again, back to

1171
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,280
Speaker 1: these journals I have and know yourself Better journal because

1172
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: a lot of people do find it really helpful to

1173
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 1: have these sort of reflections to kind of guide their thinking,

1174
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: because it's hard to just look in the mirror and

1175
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 1: see what's there clearly. It's like if somebody be if

1176
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:28,359
Speaker 1: somebody asks you, like a really good question. So here's

1177
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,399
Speaker 1: a funny thing. A lot of adults don't know what

1178
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:33,799
Speaker 1: to do for fun, Like they know what's fun for

1179
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,799
Speaker 1: the whole family, They you know, maybe right, and then

1180
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 1: they know work and then kind of like the chores.

1181
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 1: But if you're like, what would you do just for fun?

1182
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 1: If you had a whole day free, what would you

1183
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 1: do for fun? Or if you had a hobby, what

1184
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: would your hobby be? Or you know, and so it's like,

1185
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 1: what do you do for fun? Here's a great question

1186
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 1: to ask yourself. What did you do for fun when

1187
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 1: you were ten years old? Emily? What did you do

1188
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 1: for fun when you were ten years old?

1189
00:56:56,360 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 3: I mean, I played like zena warrior princess in the

1190
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 3: backyard with my best friend.

1191
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:05,479
Speaker 1: So the question is, if that's what you did for fun,

1192
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 1: what could you do as an adult that would tap

1193
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: into that pleasure? Because what you did, So what I

1194
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 1: did for fun when I was ten years old is

1195
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 1: I would copy out my favorite quotations from books that

1196
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 1: I was reading into these beautiful books, and then I

1197
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: would illustrate them with magazine pictures. And nowadays, as an adult,

1198
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:28,439
Speaker 1: I have I have a Moment of Happiness newsletter where

1199
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 1: like five days a week I send out like a

1200
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 1: beautiful quotation about happiness or human nature. And it's so

1201
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 1: fun for me, and it's just as I was a

1202
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 1: ten year old, Like sitting on the floor and writing

1203
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 1: it out with a felt tip marker in a blank

1204
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: book is exactly how I feel now. And I'm like

1205
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 1: reading a book and typing it into my big document

1206
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 1: of all my favorite quotations, and I'm like, it's even

1207
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 1: better because I get to show it to other people.

1208
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: It's not just my book that I can maybe show

1209
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 1: to a friend. It's like I can send this to

1210
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 1: as many people who love quotations as much as I do.

1211
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 1: But it's fun for me exactly the same way, but

1212
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: it's adapted to my adult situation, and so okay, playing

1213
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 1: like what might that be? Maybe you're gonna start a

1214
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 1: monthly charade thing. Maybe you're gonna do immersive theater. Maybe

1215
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 1: you're gonna I mean, where could that lead? But it's

1216
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 1: probably something that you would find fun. Yeah.

1217
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 2: No, I mean, I hear where you're going with this.

1218
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily think I need to like pick up

1219
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 3: a fake sword and like go to for Green Park

1220
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 3: and like.

1221
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 1: Start colonial williams Berg. I'm putting on my apron and

1222
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna need some dough. We're gonna make

1223
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: a candle.

1224
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,600
Speaker 3: Close to you, I will say. You and I obviously

1225
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 3: have many things in common. And when I was younger,

1226
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 3: I did a similar thing. So I think that that's

1227
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 3: like kind of these different ways that we engage in

1228
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 3: our respective communities. I mean, I do think that through

1229
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 3: asking these tough questions. We just had a thirty day

1230
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 3: challenge with a bunch of the hurdlers and it became

1231
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:54,959
Speaker 3: something that was a really beautiful opportunity not only for

1232
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 3: each of the individuals to do some like self inquisition work,

1233
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 3: but then also to come together and have these conversations

1234
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 3: because of that connectivity and these things that bring us

1235
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 3: together are oftentimes when you are someone that's willing to

1236
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 3: do this work, that's willing to do this inquisition, finding

1237
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 3: like minded people can be a way for us to

1238
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 3: continue on with that and do more of it well. A,

1239
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 3: it's often accountability. B.

1240
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 1: We can all learn from each other and a lot

1241
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 1: of people you're like, wow, I never thought about sleeping

1242
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 1: in my work out close. That's amazing. I'm going to

1243
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: do that, you know, or whatever you get ideas and

1244
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: then and it goes to that identity I'm the kind

1245
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 1: of person who does that. I'm around other people. And

1246
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 1: one of the things that I found was absolutely striking

1247
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: in my for better than before when I was doing

1248
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 1: all the habit research. It gives all the twenty one

1249
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 1: strategies that you can use to make or break your habits.

1250
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 1: And one of the strategies, and a very universal strategies,

1251
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 1: is the strategy of other people. And it is really

1252
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 1: striking how much we pick up habits from other people,

1253
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 1: good habits. If one spouse gives up smoking, the other

1254
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 1: one's much more likely to give up smoking, but also

1255
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 1: to the bad. So we're constantly trying to habits back

1256
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 1: and forth. So if you put yourself in a cohort

1257
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 1: like this thirty day challenge, and you're like, these are

1258
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 1: my people, I'm one of these folks. We're all working

1259
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 1: on this together. That's gonna kind of keep you focused,

1260
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 1: and just that being around other people who were doing that,

1261
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 1: even with that you consciously realizing it, that's going to

1262
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 1: start to seep in and to shape it and to

1263
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 1: make it easier to do that. If there's a habit

1264
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 1: you want, you want to put yourself around people who

1265
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 1: have that habit. If there's a habit you don't want,

1266
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 1: you want to pull back from people who do have

1267
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 1: that habit. Because it's like somebody was saying to me,

1268
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 1: I want to be I want to learn to be

1269
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:36,440
Speaker 1: much more frugal, but my friends are definitely the kind that, like,

1270
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 1: you know, they're ordering appetizers there or you know, and

1271
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: he says, it's hard for me to hold to my hand.

1272
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 1: They're not pressuring me to spend money. It's not that

1273
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 1: it's just that I don't. It's harder for me to

1274
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 1: keep my habit in this context. And it's like, yeah,

1275
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 1: that's human nature. So yeah. And so putting yourself into,

1276
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 1: like in a group of people who are really striving

1277
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: for the same thing that you're striving for is enormously

1278
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 1: beneficial in a multitude of ways, some of which you're

1279
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 1: probably not even consciously aware of totally.

1280
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 2: And then on the note of tough questions.

1281
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 3: After a while, maybe someone who starts to ask themselves

1282
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:12,439
Speaker 3: some of them can get more comfortable continuing to answer them.

1283
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 3: For someone who's struggling to like open themselves up to

1284
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 3: that level of inquisition, is there perhaps like a best

1285
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:22,040
Speaker 3: practice way to ease into that?

1286
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 1: Well, I think you know, there are questions that you

1287
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 1: can ask yourself that that you can sort of go through.

1288
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 1: So one question might be what am I waiting for?

1289
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 1: So because because a lot of times people are will think, well,

1290
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 1: I'll start it in the new year, or it's going

1291
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 1: to be like after after the summer's over and everything

1292
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 1: calms down, like there's always you know, tomorrow, it's always

1293
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: easier than today. And so sometimes it's like, if I'm

1294
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:50,160
Speaker 1: just waiting for things to get easier, you know what,

1295
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 1: it's probably like now, now is always a really good time.

1296
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:56,760
Speaker 1: So if what am I waiting for? Am I kind

1297
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 1: of putting myself on pause for sort of no good reason,

1298
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 1: but just sort of out of anxiety. One question that

1299
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 1: a lot of people say helps them a lot is

1300
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 1: what would I do if I weren't scared? So if

1301
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 1: I could just imagine like another person doing it, what

1302
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:14,080
Speaker 1: would you know, and that can often be kind of

1303
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 1: an interesting way to get at this. What would I

1304
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 1: do if I weren't scared? Is to say, what would

1305
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:21,400
Speaker 1: I tell a friend? Right, because you're not scared for

1306
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:23,080
Speaker 1: your friend, because your friend's the one that's got to

1307
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: do it. So what advice would you give to a friend? Yeah,

1308
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 1: because you don't feel that fear in relation to someone else,

1309
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 1: and often you trust in your friend, You believe in

1310
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 1: your friend, and you know you have optimism for your friend.

1311
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 1: What would you say to your friend? Well, then you know,

1312
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: tell repeat it back to yourself.

1313
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 3: Super helpful, super helpful, and some good visualization like in

1314
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 3: that as well. Obviously, as we can tell from the

1315
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 3: last fifty plus minutes we've spent together that you are

1316
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 3: someone that a lot of people look to for advice

1317
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 3: and for guidance. You've got almost something like two hundred

1318
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:02,600
Speaker 3: thousand followers on instead and so many beyond that. That's

1319
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 3: who they see when they look at you. But what

1320
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 3: is it that you see when you look in the mirror, Gretchen, Well, you.

1321
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: Know, we try to be very honest, so I hope

1322
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 1: that it's very consistent. But you know, but that is

1323
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:20,480
Speaker 1: a great question. I'm constantly thinking, like, what are my

1324
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 1: blind spots? What am I telling myself is true that

1325
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 1: isn't true? What do I think are my limitations that

1326
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 1: are not my limitations? I think it's the grit. I

1327
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 1: think you put your finger on one of the great

1328
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 1: questions of our lives, which is you know who am I?

1329
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 1: Actually one of the things I realized recently, like right now,

1330
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:42,560
Speaker 1: I'm working on a book about the five senses and

1331
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:44,439
Speaker 1: how we can tap into the five senses to really

1332
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:47,280
Speaker 1: bring ourselves a sense of vitality. And that came from

1333
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 1: me really looking at myself and thinking, you know, I

1334
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 1: am really I'm absent minded, I'm absent bodied. I walk

1335
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:56,320
Speaker 1: around kind of in a fog. I don't tap into

1336
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 1: my senses as much as I should. I think I'm

1337
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 1: leaving a lot of opportunity unity for just like appreciating

1338
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 1: the moment in the world around me. And it was

1339
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:07,919
Speaker 1: really acknowledging that limitation of myself that got me very,

1340
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 1: very excited about trying to systematically address that. So I

1341
01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:14,959
Speaker 1: think it was acknowledging something about myself that I wish

1342
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 1: were not true but is true.

1343
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 3: It's so interesting to hear you talk about the premise

1344
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 3: for this upcoming project. I know the premise for the

1345
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 3: Happiness Project was like the same kind of level of

1346
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 3: like self inquisition and asking yourself if there was more

1347
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 3: that you could do there?

1348
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 1: Do you use the theme ever?

1349
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 2: Take a step back and like, are you ever your

1350
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 2: own hype woman?

1351
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:38,080
Speaker 1: Or I sort of love this Benjamin Franklin kind of

1352
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 1: constant guinea pig, constant testing. I find it really really fun, Like,

1353
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 1: give me a good try this at home. I love that,

1354
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:49,479
Speaker 1: So I do not find it exhausting and overwhelming. Now

1355
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 1: do other people around me feel like they're innocent bystanders? Yes.

1356
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 1: My sister Listen, who's the co host of Happier with

1357
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 1: Gretcher Rubin, she calls me a happiness bully too, because

1358
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:01,959
Speaker 1: I'm that way to myself. But also if you're close

1359
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 1: to me and I think that there's a way for

1360
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:05,400
Speaker 1: you to be happier, like I can get kind of

1361
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 1: like insistent on that, but it comes from a place

1362
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 1: of love. So yeah, does.

1363
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:13,840
Speaker 3: Anyone around you ever just tell you how magnificent you

1364
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 3: are so that you can hear.

1365
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 2: It from somebody else.

1366
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:17,040
Speaker 1: No, I wish they would.

1367
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 3: No, all right, I'm here to tell you today, Gretcha,

1368
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 3: you're a pretty awesome, stellar human.

1369
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, and so are you.

1370
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:29,960
Speaker 2: Of course.

1371
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 3: Well, I would be remiss if I didn't before I

1372
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:35,919
Speaker 3: let you go here, talk a little bit about where

1373
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 3: we are as a society after the last year. So

1374
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 3: many people after the last eighteen months in this pandemic,

1375
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:45,640
Speaker 3: going through some tough spots and dealing with everything from

1376
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 3: negative self talk to anxieties of just simply walking down

1377
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:52,600
Speaker 3: the street. So when it comes to us moving forward

1378
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 3: with a little bit of optimism and trying to find

1379
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:59,640
Speaker 3: our happy as we progress, what would you say are

1380
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 3: some of the steps that people can take in that

1381
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:04,840
Speaker 3: finding they're happy in this new quote unquote normal.

1382
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:08,240
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's a there's been a huge disruption. There's

1383
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:11,280
Speaker 1: so much uncertainty, there's so much hardship and suffering. Certainly,

1384
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 1: but I would say now more than ever, sort of

1385
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 1: the advice about happiness, which is like ancient ancient philosophers

1386
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: and contemporary scientists agree on this, like if you had

1387
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 1: to pick one aspect of your life, pick relationships. To

1388
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:26,480
Speaker 1: be happy, we need to have deep intimate bonds, we

1389
01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:28,840
Speaker 1: need to have enduring relationships, We need to be able

1390
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 1: to confide. We need to be able to get support

1391
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:34,160
Speaker 1: and also give support. We need to be able to

1392
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 1: we need, you know, we need to feel like someone

1393
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:39,240
Speaker 1: has our back. And and this is part of what

1394
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:41,840
Speaker 1: has been so distressing about this time is that so many,

1395
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 1: so many of our usual ways of connecting have been

1396
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:47,720
Speaker 1: disrupted or altered, and that's been really hard for people

1397
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:50,560
Speaker 1: to manage. But so thinking about you know, if you're

1398
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:53,200
Speaker 1: thinking about, oh gosh, should I get on another zoom

1399
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:55,600
Speaker 1: call with my college roommates, like I'm so tired of that?

1400
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:59,160
Speaker 1: Or like should I, you know, own next year my

1401
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:01,520
Speaker 1: college reunions coming up? Like should I deal with the

1402
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 1: time and the energy to do that? Like anything like

1403
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:07,160
Speaker 1: should I, oh gosh, my friend keeps canceling on me

1404
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 1: for good reason, but should we just keep rescheduling that

1405
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:13,400
Speaker 1: hikee because it's such a nuisance. Anything that deepens our

1406
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 1: relationships or broadens our relationships. Anything where we are giving

1407
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:21,080
Speaker 1: into our community, when we feel like we're making things

1408
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 1: better or we're helping or we're teaching, anything that goes

1409
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:27,120
Speaker 1: to those bonds with other people. If I had to

1410
01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:29,600
Speaker 1: pick one thing for being happier, I would say anything.

1411
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:30,920
Speaker 1: If you're trying to figure out what to do with

1412
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:34,480
Speaker 1: your time, energy, or money. Anything that goes to relationships

1413
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 1: is something that's likely to make you happier, and it'll

1414
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 1: make you feel more supported, and it will also make

1415
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 1: you feel like you're better able to support others, and

1416
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 1: that is also a tremendous source of happiness. One of

1417
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 1: the best ways to make yourself happier is to make

1418
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:49,320
Speaker 1: other people happier. And one of the best ways to

1419
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 1: make other people happier is to be happier yourself.

1420
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:53,880
Speaker 2: I love that. I love that, Gretchen.

1421
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:57,040
Speaker 3: What is one of the things that makes you happy

1422
01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 3: right now?

1423
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:03,000
Speaker 1: Reading? Reading? It's my playground and my cubicle. I love reading,

1424
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 1: and so that is something now and forever reading.

1425
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 2: Well, I mean this beckons the question what are you

1426
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:10,800
Speaker 2: reading right now?

1427
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:14,720
Speaker 1: I am reading The Yellow Room by Sarah Broom, which

1428
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 1: is more.

1429
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:18,920
Speaker 3: And if you had to recommend a book for the

1430
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:21,599
Speaker 3: next Hurdle Book Club, what should we be reading?

1431
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 1: Direction ooh, fiction non fiction.

1432
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:28,719
Speaker 3: We're usually leaning into like a nonfiction, like we're talking

1433
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:31,960
Speaker 3: personal development, self help, that kind of stuff. Not long

1434
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:35,479
Speaker 3: ago we read Grit, so it's like a hint of

1435
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 3: where we've been. The power of habit.

1436
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:41,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good book. I'm trying to think of

1437
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:45,080
Speaker 1: a great five census book. Oh, this is Your Brain

1438
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:48,519
Speaker 1: on Music by Daniel Levitton. It's so exciting. You read

1439
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:50,679
Speaker 1: all about your brain and how you listen to music,

1440
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 1: and there's a lot in there about how you can

1441
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 1: use music to pump yourself up and calm yourself down,

1442
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:57,280
Speaker 1: and it gives you an appreciation for your body. And

1443
01:08:57,320 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 1: so I think for people who are interested in kind

1444
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:04,720
Speaker 1: of self development and self understanding, it's really interesting to

1445
01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 1: it just it just fills you with awe about the

1446
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 1: human body and what our bodies can do without us

1447
01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:16,800
Speaker 1: even noticing the sophistication. It's just it's it's really it's

1448
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:19,720
Speaker 1: a transcendent thing to think about. And it's also like

1449
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 1: super interesting and practical.

1450
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 3: If you were to recommend to the hurdlers who have

1451
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:29,280
Speaker 3: never read any of your titles before a good place

1452
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:30,560
Speaker 3: to start, would you tell them to start with the

1453
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:31,400
Speaker 3: Happiness Project.

1454
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 1: Yes, unless they're very focused on changing their habits, in

1455
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 1: which case I would say better than before, specifically about

1456
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 1: habit change, I think the Happinest Project is more fun read.

1457
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:44,479
Speaker 1: It's more on the memoir side and it's all about happiness,

1458
01:09:44,479 --> 01:09:47,200
Speaker 1: which is great. But if you're like, I don't care

1459
01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:49,720
Speaker 1: about this Gretchen Ruben and how she got happier, I

1460
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:51,840
Speaker 1: want to know, like how to get myself to go

1461
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:53,880
Speaker 1: to bed at ten thirty every night, I'm like, well

1462
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:56,240
Speaker 1: better than before. We'll like goes right to the heart

1463
01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: of that. So either one of those probably would be

1464
01:09:58,400 --> 01:09:58,880
Speaker 1: good for.

1465
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:00,679
Speaker 2: The hurdlers perfect well.

1466
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:03,479
Speaker 3: Gretchen the way that I close the podcast every time,

1467
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:07,120
Speaker 3: right now, you have an opportunity to offer yourself one

1468
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:09,679
Speaker 3: piece of advice. Going through a big hurdle moment, let's

1469
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 3: say the moment when you decided that you were gonna

1470
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 3: stop clerking and start writing, you have an opportunity to

1471
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:18,599
Speaker 3: offer yourself back then a piece of advice. Right now,

1472
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 3: looking back on it, What do you tell yourself?

1473
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:23,960
Speaker 1: I would tell myself something that I've learned now but

1474
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 1: I did not know then, which is if you're not failing,

1475
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 1: you're not trying hard enough. And so go into this

1476
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 1: thinking it's okay for me to fail, because if I fail,

1477
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:36,720
Speaker 1: I will know that I am trying hard. And if

1478
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:39,720
Speaker 1: there is no failure, I need to figure out more

1479
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:42,320
Speaker 1: things to try so I get my failures in.

1480
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:44,599
Speaker 2: I love it, Gretchen.

1481
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:47,840
Speaker 3: I am so ecstatic just at the opportunity that we

1482
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:49,960
Speaker 3: had here to sit down together. I know that there's

1483
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:54,960
Speaker 3: so many takeaways from this time, and I'm so grateful

1484
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:55,719
Speaker 3: for you and the work.

1485
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:56,840
Speaker 2: That you do, and I know that the community is

1486
01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:57,920
Speaker 2: as well well.

1487
01:10:57,960 --> 01:10:59,760
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I so enjoyed our conversation. I

1488
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 1: feel like we could talk all day, so I really

1489
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:02,680
Speaker 1: appreciate it.

1490
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:04,760
Speaker 3: I wish that we could. How do how do the

1491
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:06,599
Speaker 3: hurdlers keep up with you? How do they follow along

1492
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:08,760
Speaker 3: with you? What can they get in on? Give us

1493
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:09,479
Speaker 3: all the details.

1494
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:11,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, So if you want to go to sort of

1495
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 1: the hub of all my things, you can go to

1496
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:16,280
Speaker 1: Gretchen Reuben dot com and you can read about my

1497
01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:19,200
Speaker 1: books and there's all kinds of free resources. If you

1498
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 1: are a podcast listener, which clearly you are, you can

1499
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:24,519
Speaker 1: listen to Happier with Gretchen Ruben. That's a weekly podcast

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01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:26,759
Speaker 1: that I do with my cost and my sister Elizabeth,

1501
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 1: and it's all about it, like concrete, manageable ways to

1502
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:33,439
Speaker 1: be happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative. I'm on

1503
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:37,400
Speaker 1: social media everywhere you would look for Gretchen Ruben and

1504
01:11:37,479 --> 01:11:39,920
Speaker 1: if you're interested in the journals, you go to the

1505
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:43,200
Speaker 1: Happiness Project and you can find it there.

1506
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:44,200
Speaker 2: Beautiful.

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Speaker 3: I'm over at Emilybody and at Hurdle Podcast Another Hurdle conquered.

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Speaker 2: Catch you guys next time.