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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: He had it all, a beautiful wife, children, a gorgeous home.

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Speaker 1: A TV star.

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Speaker 2: But what did he do try to arrange well, correction,

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Speaker 2: arrange sex with miners and transporting them across state lines

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Speaker 2: to do it.

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Speaker 3: Jared Fogel has been charged and has admitted to participating

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Speaker 3: in a five year criminal scheme to exploit children.

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Speaker 2: Wow, Subway sandwich pitchman aka TV star Jared Fogel, wait

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Speaker 2: till you hear this.

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Speaker 3: Fogel admitted that he repeatedly traveled from Indiana to New

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Speaker 3: York to engage in commercial sex acts with victims he

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Speaker 3: knew to be children.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 2: I want to thank you for being with So where

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Speaker 2: is the subway guy, pitchman, multimillionaire Jared Fogel? Now, remember

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Speaker 2: he was always on TV talking about how we lost

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Speaker 2: two hundred pounds by only eating subway sandwiches. Remember that,

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Speaker 2: and you would see him behind the counter making sandwiches

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Speaker 2: out of fresh veggies and lean meats. Oh gosh, it's

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Speaker 2: making any hungry. Just think about it, the subway sandwich

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Speaker 2: and the fresh reggies, not about him.

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Speaker 1: That is not making me hungry.

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Speaker 2: His wholesome image crashed when he was accused of sex,

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Speaker 2: abusing and exploiting children. He made so much money appearing

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Speaker 2: in ads for the subway franchise for over a decade. Ouch,

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Speaker 2: but then he had to admit to having sex with

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Speaker 2: at least two minors.

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Speaker 1: You know what, let me rephrase. That's cause statutory rape.

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Speaker 2: And getting child porn of at least twelve others. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I guess where he is now. Are you sitting down? Okay?

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Speaker 2: He has a massive behind bar sentence and he is

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Speaker 2: now serving time at the Inglewood Fed Correctional Institution, Littleton, Colorado.

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Speaker 2: He's been attacked more than once behind bars, but right

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Speaker 2: now he is a prison chef. Yes, he is a

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Speaker 2: prison chef. He is working in the kitchen. How appropriate.

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Speaker 1: But that's not what he always did. Let's jog he recollection.

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Speaker 1: Listen to Fogel himself.

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Speaker 4: He must go crazy with her travels. So you get

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Speaker 4: to go and tell the different schools, you know, all

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Speaker 4: the different things like that. Give me can I want

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Speaker 4: I want you to. I mean, I'm sure you have

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Speaker 4: a lot of stories. I want you to tell me

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Speaker 4: some of them say that I don't know, it's just

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Speaker 4: I like to.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, especially come in the middle school. I love the

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Speaker 5: middle school and I get over thirty there, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 5: cause you know how much I love you know.

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Speaker 4: You well, what's that well, you know, kids are what

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Speaker 4: you're going faster nowadays.

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Speaker 5: I know what I love And that's why I think

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Speaker 5: it's wonderful to you is that you're able to get

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Speaker 5: in early you know what I mean, you could totally

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Speaker 5: you know, you could totally win them off, which is.

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Speaker 4: What I love. You like that. I do love that.

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Speaker 4: Tell me how well you tell me how to do that,

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Speaker 4: you know, just.

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Speaker 5: Talk to 'em, just get to know 'em, just to everything.

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Speaker 5: I mean, just you know, do a little touchy feelings

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Speaker 5: things with them, you know, and make it so good

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Speaker 5: and it's a little more touchy feeling, a little more

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Speaker 5: touchy feeling, a little more touchy feeling and that kind

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Speaker 5: of stuff. Yeah, mm hmm, okay, I.

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Speaker 4: Think that would be amazing. What what age seems to

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Speaker 4: be the easiest?

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Speaker 5: You know, I don't know how you like, you know,

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Speaker 5: early middle school of probably one of the best. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: you know, they don't have their coming going and I

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Speaker 5: could see a young sixth seventh grader, you know, in this.

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Speaker 4: And they're all there, they do right with that? What's

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Speaker 4: that you need to find out? How if they'd be

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Speaker 4: all right with that?

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Speaker 5: I think definitely all right with that. They're very much

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Speaker 5: into exploring and you know.

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Speaker 4: This matter of them on your side, you know, and

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Speaker 4: that's why that's what I'm just curious. I don't know

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Speaker 4: how to how to do that.

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Speaker 5: Just be friendly to them, Yeah, just be friendly to them,

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Speaker 5: Just do what you normally would do, maybe because this

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Speaker 5: was a hears so friendly anyway, mm hmm. You know,

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Speaker 5: and now we need to sort of go from there. Okay,

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Speaker 5: you handing it, tell case by case. You know, there's

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Speaker 5: no there's no right way, wrong way, whatever, you know.

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Speaker 2: I actually feel nauseous hearing that, Cheryl mccollumm, Cold Case

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Speaker 2: Research Institute Director. I have tried a lot of child

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Speaker 2: molesstation cases, but typically the defendant did not take the

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Speaker 2: stand because they knew I would chew them a new

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Speaker 2: tail hole on cross examination. So it's very rare you

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Speaker 2: actually get to hear the PERV speaking. That was U

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Speaker 2: tapes played on my friend Doctor Phild's show. They were

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Speaker 2: tapes obtained by Rochelle Herman warrand a woman who befriended

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Speaker 2: Jared Fogel and then took these secret tapes. So, Cheryl,

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Speaker 2: we are hearing him in his unfiltered state talking about

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Speaker 2: how he likes little middle school girls.

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Speaker 1: That's like fourth grade girls, Chancy.

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Speaker 6: The fear is when this person is released, their sexual attraction.

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Speaker 4: Is the same.

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Speaker 6: And that is what people in power do not understand.

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Speaker 6: If you are attracted to sixth grade girls, that does

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Speaker 6: not go away. If you are attracted to five year

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Speaker 6: old boys, that does not go away anymore than whatever

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Speaker 6: your sexual attraction is. If you think Halle Barry is sexy,

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Speaker 6: she's going to be sexy, whether you go to counseling

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Speaker 6: or not. To you, this is a large were people think, oh,

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Speaker 6: sin in the counseling, sin into prison, then they'll learn

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Speaker 6: their lesson. No, if I see a commercial with Matthew McConaughey,

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Speaker 6: that man is fine a tail Nancy, there ain't no

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Speaker 6: amount of counseling, then change my mind about that. Believe it. So,

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Speaker 6: if you've got somebody that is telling you straight up,

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Speaker 6: I like middle school girls, keep his ass in prison.

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Speaker 2: Eloquently spoken, Cheryl eloquently spoke with me. Is investigative reporter

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Speaker 2: Jennifer Sakowski. Jennifer, what is this business.

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Speaker 1: About Jared Fogel getting out of prison? He just got

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Speaker 1: put in prison for Pete's sake, Yes he did.

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Speaker 7: And you know part of me thinks is he just

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Speaker 7: loved being in the spotlight.

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Speaker 8: I'm you know, according to Ruders, he is trying to

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Speaker 8: be released from.

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Speaker 7: The federal person. He's staying out in Colorado. He's claiming

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Speaker 7: his guilty plea in the.

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Speaker 8: Child pornography case was based on an illegal conspiracy charge

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Speaker 8: and should be thrown out. So he's actually claiming that

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Speaker 8: he wouldn't have pleaded guilty except for the improper charge

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Speaker 8: and said being imprisoned is violating his due process under

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Speaker 8: the United States Constitution. And you know, the reason he's

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Speaker 8: saying it was unlawful is because it included a charge

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Speaker 8: of conspiracy, which he's saying is not covered by the

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Speaker 8: text of a federal law concerning sexual misconduct involving minors.

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Speaker 8: And there's really two parts to this. Because TMZ is

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Speaker 8: reporting that he's suing the judge and the prosecutors in

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Speaker 8: the child pornography case for fifty seven million dollars, and

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Speaker 8: they're saying, rather than trying to get out of prison.

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Speaker 8: His focus is on a financial legal gain over the

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Speaker 8: justice system department employees who put him away.

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Speaker 1: WHOA So let me understand this.

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Speaker 2: Did I hear this correctly to Cheryl McCollum. Did Jennifer

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Speaker 2: Sagowski from heavy dot com just say that Jared Fogel

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Speaker 2: is actually suing the prosecutors? Is that right?

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Speaker 6: For fifty seven millions? Not sixty, not fifty five, fifty

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Speaker 6: seven millions. That's an odd number, just like his odd

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Speaker 6: sexual behavior.

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Speaker 2: Hang on, it's not just the prosecutors.

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Speaker 1: Jared Fogel is also naming US Attorney General Jeff's Sessions

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Speaker 1: in his complaints, saying Sessions failed to correct a clear

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Speaker 1: error and for good measure, focals blaming President Trump too.

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Speaker 1: You know it never fails.

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Speaker 2: Just to amaze me, this guy praying on young children

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Speaker 2: and he's busted having them brought to his hotel room

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Speaker 2: at the Plaza in New York City and the lord

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Speaker 2: only knows where else so he could have sex with children.

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Speaker 2: Now he's suing. You heard me, right, Doctor Chloe Carmichael,

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Speaker 2: New York psychologists, founder of anxietytools dot com. Doctor Chloe,

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Speaker 2: I agree with Cheryl McCollum. But my knowledge of this

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Speaker 2: is anecdotal. I'm not a doctor, I'm not a shrink.

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Speaker 2: I'm a JD, not an MD. But every person I've

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Speaker 2: ever seen that child molested or statutory raped that wasn

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Speaker 2: an adult. I mean, there are a few exceptions where

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Speaker 2: a seventeen year old boy will be with a fifteen

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Speaker 2: year old girl and it's construed as child rape. I'm

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Speaker 2: talking about adult adults with children. I've never seen an

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Speaker 2: instance where that was quote cured. That's a crime, that's pedophilia.

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Speaker 1: That is a crime. I agree with Sheheryl, you can't

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Speaker 1: go to jail and get quote cured.

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Speaker 9: Well, Nancy, I can certainly see why you would feel

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Speaker 9: that way. And I'm not only inclined to gree to

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Speaker 9: agree with you personally, but that is actually what the research.

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Speaker 4: Does as well.

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Speaker 9: So pet of files actually very rarely learn to.

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Speaker 4: Stop being attracted.

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Speaker 9: You know, just as what's being said, if you know

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Speaker 9: you are attracted in Matthew mccattaey, you know, Noah Consling

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Speaker 9: is going to change that. But what pedophiles do learn

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Speaker 9: how to do is how to at least control their urges,

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Speaker 9: not act upon their urges. But in order for them

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Speaker 9: to learn that, they have to be willing to learn.

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Speaker 4: They have to.

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Speaker 9: Many pedophiles hate themselves and hate their urges and are

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Speaker 9: just at least grateful if they can learn how to

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Speaker 9: not act on them. Jara doesn't seem to feel that

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Speaker 9: there's anything wrong with his urges. So in addition to

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Speaker 9: being a pedophile, it's also quite possible that he may

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Speaker 9: be a psychopath. So, you know, he doesn't seem to

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Speaker 9: have any concern at all for how this is affecting,

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Speaker 9: you know, anybody else, and the idea that he thinks

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Speaker 9: he should be released from prison and that he can

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Speaker 9: you know, sue the prosecutors. This type of entitlement that

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Speaker 9: he has, combined with his pedophilia, I think it does

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Speaker 9: make him a very poor candidate for somebody that would ever,

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Speaker 9: you know, really be rehabilitated. He doesn't want to be

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Speaker 9: rehability rehabilitated. This is like an alcoholics. They have to

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Speaker 9: want to stop drinking. He doesn't want to stop. He

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Speaker 9: wants to continue.

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Speaker 3: Let's call this what it is. This is about using wealth,

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Speaker 3: status and secrecy to illegally exploit children.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace Jared Fogel goes on to

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Speaker 1: be a millionaire.

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Speaker 2: He was extremely obase in college, weighing close to four

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifty pounds. Okay, he lost two hundred and

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Speaker 2: forty five pounds by eating nothing but Subway sandwiches. Says him.

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Speaker 2: He would eat the foot long veggie and the six

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Speaker 2: inch turkey every day, no cheese, no mayo, tons of

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Speaker 2: veggies and a little spicy mustard. According to my research,

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Speaker 2: he says, quote, Oh, this is just like disgusting. He says,

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Speaker 2: quote I was reborn in every sense of the word.

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Speaker 2: Subway helps save my life and start over. I can't

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Speaker 2: ever repay that. Okay, well, he's making sandwiches behind bars

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Speaker 2: now because he was totally convicted of sex with minors

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Speaker 2: ie statutory rape and child porn.

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Speaker 3: The approximate amount of data reviewed includes one hundred and

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Speaker 3: fifty nine thousand, six hundred and thirty four text messages,

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Speaker 3: twenty seven thousand, one hundred and forty emails, forty seven thousand,

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Speaker 3: six hundred and twenty three images in three thousand, three

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Speaker 3: hundred and ninety four videos. Through this thorough investigation, fourteen

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Speaker 3: victims were.

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Speaker 2: Identified back to Jennifer Sikowski. He became famous in two thousand,

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Speaker 2: after he credited Subway for a huge weight loss. Now,

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Speaker 2: his guilty plea was based partially on an illegal conspiracy

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Speaker 2: charge that dealt with child pornography, but there were so

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Speaker 2: many other counts. There was the actual transferring children across

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Speaker 2: state lines to have sex with them, and hotels. He

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Speaker 2: pled guilty to having sex with children. I mean, how

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Speaker 2: can that be thrown out, Jennifer, That has nothing to

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Speaker 2: do with a conspiracy, doesn't No, one would not.

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Speaker 7: Think so, And no, it doesn't make any sense. Like

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Speaker 7: you said, he admitted to these charge.

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Speaker 8: He pleaded guilty, So I'm not exactly sure. I mean,

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Speaker 8: just like the last person said, he doesn't want to

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Speaker 8: control his urges. He has this sense of entitlements, and

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Speaker 8: I'm not exactly sure how he would think that he

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Speaker 8: could get out of prison at this point.

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Speaker 2: Well, another thing, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case

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Speaker 2: Research Institute, this is not his.

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Speaker 1: First try to get out of jail.

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Speaker 2: He tried to get out claiming the judge in his

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Speaker 2: case was biased because she had teen girls. Okay, I'm

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Speaker 2: getting that from the Indie Star. Well, actually the judge

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Speaker 2: had one daughter and she's grown all in all. Since

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Speaker 2: he was sentenced, he has filed dozens and dozens of

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Speaker 2: motions to either get a sentence reduced or just thrown out.

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Speaker 2: So this guy is not giving up. He claims that

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Speaker 2: his plea his guilty plea. Let me remind you, it's

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Speaker 2: the guilty please, I drey taual. He swore under oath

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Speaker 2: he was guilty. Okay, so it's not like he was

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Speaker 2: wrongly convicted. He stood up and swore he was guilty.

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Speaker 2: He's now claiming his plea was unconstitutional.

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Speaker 6: Cheryl Hey to a point, and Nancy not only did

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Speaker 6: he plead guilty. The only thing he's arguing now is technicality.

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Speaker 6: He still ain't saying he didn't do it. He hasn't

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Speaker 6: yet said, y'all got the wrong guy. I wasn't there,

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Speaker 6: it wasn't me. I wouldn't do it. He said, Yeah,

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Speaker 6: I did it. Let me out so I can freaking

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Speaker 6: do it again. That's all this is about. He walks out.

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Speaker 6: There's a ton of people that can watch perverted movies,

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Speaker 6: whether it's these reality or free Thongs or whatever, but

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Speaker 6: they don't act on it. This man has already acted

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Speaker 6: on it. He has passed that threshold of return. He

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Speaker 6: is a dangerous predator period.

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Speaker 2: He played guilty the Subway Sandwich pitch man to federal

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Speaker 2: charges of conspiracy to distribute and receive child porn, traveling

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Speaker 2: across state lines to have sex contact with a minor.

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Speaker 2: He agreed to pay one hundred thousand dollars to each

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Speaker 2: of fourteen unnamed children. Those are the ones that we

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Speaker 2: know of, and he's going to do at least fifteen

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Speaker 2: years behind bars. He has been trying every which way

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Speaker 2: to get out of jail, and he's got the money

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Speaker 2: to hire lawyers to do it. That's the problem, Doctor

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Speaker 2: Chloe Carmichael, New York psychologists, founder of anxietytools dot com.

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Speaker 2: Why can't he just serve his time and try to

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Speaker 2: improve himself or rehab himself behind bars. All he's doing

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Speaker 2: behind bars is trying to say the system tricked him.

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Speaker 2: He pled guilty.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't a trial. There are no errors at trial.

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Speaker 2: He stood up in court under oath and pled guilty

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Speaker 2: to these charges.

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Speaker 1: So what is his mindset? Doctor Chloe Well of Quest Nancy.

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Speaker 9: It's difficult to say what his mindset is, but I

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Speaker 9: can you know, certainly speculate that he may have seen

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Speaker 9: in our society.

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Speaker 4: That unfortunately, you know, many times.

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Speaker 9: Of perpetrators will play the victim card, and he has

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Speaker 9: probably seen that card plead successfully many times. As you

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Speaker 9: pointed out, it seems clear that his goal is simply

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Speaker 9: to get out of prison and to get right back

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Speaker 9: to what he was doing before. So I imagine he's

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Speaker 9: willing to avail himself of any strategy that he thinks

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Speaker 9: might work, including becoming vindictive towards you know what.

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Speaker 2: As I always used to say, be careful what you

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Speaker 2: ask my dear for, you will surely get it now,

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Speaker 2: Oscar Wilde said at first, but it applies here. Subway

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Speaker 2: reaches out to Jared Fogel. He becomes a spokesperson for

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Speaker 2: the chain, and he's starren in over three hundred marshals.

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Speaker 1: He was worth over.

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Speaker 2: Fifteen million dollars. He was a red carpet quote regular.

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Speaker 2: He showed up with his family at movie premieres. He

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Speaker 2: was posed with photos with stars. He even started his

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Speaker 2: own charity, the Jared Foundation, to promote healthy eating habits

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Speaker 2: and exercise for children. Oh wait, what, you'd give them

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Speaker 2: a healthy meal before you molested them? Okay, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 2: so not impressed.

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Speaker 1: He is working at a kitchen in the jail house kitchen.

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Speaker 2: His sentence was fifteen years, eight months. He agreed to

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Speaker 2: pay one point four million dollars restitution to fourteen confirmed victims.

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Speaker 2: That means that we know of the probably more. They

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Speaker 2: ranged in ages ten to seventeen, ten years old. The

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Speaker 2: level of perversion exhibited by Fogel is extreme. What was

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Speaker 2: stated in court at the time. The level of perversion

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Speaker 2: and lawlessness exhibited by Fogel is extreme. Now a psychiatrist

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Speaker 2: for the defense, I don't know that this helped anything.

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Speaker 2: Claimed Fogel had a quote food addiction that transformed into

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Speaker 2: quote hyper sexuality.

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Speaker 1: Jared Fogel goes on to be a millionaire.

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Speaker 2: He was extremely obese in college, weighing close to four

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifty pounds. Okay, he lost two hundred and

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Speaker 2: forty five pounds by eating nothing but subway sandwich.

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Speaker 1: Just says him.

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Speaker 2: He would eat the foot long veggie and the six

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Speaker 2: inch turkey every day, no cheese, no mayo, tons of

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Speaker 2: veggie and a little spicy mustard. According to my research,

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Speaker 2: he says, quote I was reborn in every sense of

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Speaker 2: the word. Subway helps save my life and start over.

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Speaker 2: I can't ever repay that. Okay, well, he's making sandwiches

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Speaker 2: behind bars now. Because he was totally convicted of sex

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Speaker 2: with minors ie statutory rape and child porn, and he

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Speaker 2: started in over three hundred commercials. He was worth over

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Speaker 2: fifteen million dollars. He was a red carpet quote regular.

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Speaker 2: He showed up with his family at movie premieres. He

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Speaker 2: was posed with photos with stars. He even started his

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Speaker 2: own charity, the Jared Foundation, to promote healthy eating habits

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Speaker 2: and exercise for children. Oh wait, what you give them

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Speaker 2: a healthy meal before you rest to them. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm so not impressed. He is working at a kitchen

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Speaker 2: in the jail house kitchen. His sentence was fifteen years,

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Speaker 2: eight months. He agreed to pay one point four million

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Speaker 2: dollars restitution to fourteen confirmed victims. That means that we

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Speaker 2: know of they're probably more. They ranged in ages ten

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Speaker 2: to seventeen ten years old. The level of perversion exhibited

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Speaker 2: by Fogel is extreme. That is what was stated in

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Speaker 2: court at the time. The level of perversion and lawlessness

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Speaker 2: exhibited by Fogel is extreme. Now, a psychiatrist for the defense,

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Speaker 2: I don't know that this helped anything, claimed Fogel had

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Speaker 2: a quote food addiction that transformed into quote hyper sexuality. Okay,

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Speaker 2: you know what, that's a total crocker crap, complete and

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Speaker 2: total crap. The same psychiatrist added that Fogel had quote

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Speaker 2: weak evidence of pedophilia.

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Speaker 1: Seriously, ask a little ten year old girl, ask.

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Speaker 2: Her see if she agrees. Now he has attempted to

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Speaker 2: appeal his conviction.

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Speaker 1: That's not over.

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Speaker 2: Trust me on that.

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Speaker 1: This is what really is irritating.

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Speaker 2: He runs four or five miles every day behind bars,

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Speaker 2: He exercises, He reads The New York Times every day,

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Speaker 2: He reads historical fiction novels. He watches NFL college football,

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Speaker 2: NFL and college football. I mean, oh, I know he's

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Speaker 2: got kitchen duty and he is serving sandwiches to fellow inmates. Enjoy,

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Speaker 2: because when I think of Jared Fogel, I don't think

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Speaker 2: of a yummy subway sandwich. I think of him molesting

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Speaker 2: little girls, victimizing girls as young as ten years old

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Speaker 2: through actual statutory rape and.

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Speaker 1: Or pornography.

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Speaker 2: Good luck with that, appealed Fogel, and you're eating addiction defense.

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Speaker 2: Good night, friend,