WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 211 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:03.120 As media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.720 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.440 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.720 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.520 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:24.800 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:29.160 I conducted interviews for this series in Spanish and French. 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:32.879 Then I transcribed them and translated them, and we had 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:36.080 voice actors read them. So when you're listening to this, 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:38.800 please remember that everything you're hearing in English was recorded 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:41.920 another language, and it's through the lens of my translation 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:44.760 that you're hearing these people's words. As we always do, 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:47.559 we have included the sources for this podcast in the 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:50.320 show notes. I've also included a link to Primroses Legal 0:00:50.320 --> 0:01:19.600 aid fundraiser people would like to help out. Like most 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:21.720 of you, I wasn't having a great day on the 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:25.400 twentieth of January of twenty twenty five. I wasn't about 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:27.640 to watch the inauguration, so I went for a run 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:30.680 in the mountains Instead, I spent the next few weeks 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:32.840 trying to focus on the things we could do, the 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:35.920 things we had to do to get through four years 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:39.160 of fascism. Just a few miles away from my house, 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:41.360 I set out for my run, and unbeknown to me, 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:44.320 my friend Primrose was staring down from the top of 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:47.160 a thirty foot steel monument to hate Donald Trump had 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:50.600 built the last time he was president. To be ir accurate, 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:52.200 it was one that he had modified. There have been 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:56.560 versions of the border wall in San Diego for decades. 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.640 They said, no, yes, option, we need to take you. 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:02.200 But you know, for me, I had to take it. 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:03.360 It's because. 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:08.960 I was scared to stay in Mexico. So they took 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:11.840 us with under the bridge, I think the sewage. We 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:16.919 were walking with our stomach like under the bridge to 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:22.480 get to USA and Mexican borders. So they put ladder 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:27.040 for us to your us. Those people, when they saw 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:32.079 American immigration came, they just removed the ladder and me, 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:35.919 I was on top, so I had yeah, I was stuck. 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.440 Then I had no choice, and the kim Balish was 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.200 crying like calm, let's go, let's go. 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:46.360 At that time, I knew nothing about it. But her 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:49.959 daughter Kim had already jumped. As a Biden presidency drew 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:53.360 to a close. But before Trump began signing executive orders 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:56.240 with pens, he tossed into the crowd. She'd made it 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:59.720 to the US. Her mum was in the US as 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:02.919 well the walls inside the border, but the people who 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:04.240 had helped it get up to the top of the 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:07.400 war had fled when border patrol arrived, taking their ladder 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:10.919 with them. So Primrose was left atop the wall, the 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:14.399 literal and metaphorical final hurdle in her long and dangerous 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:20.639 journey that had begun in Zimbabwe, who went through South Africa, Brazil, Colombia, Panama, 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:30.679 Costa Rica, Negaragua, Honduras, Guatemala and Mexico. But before we 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:33.040 come down from the border wall, I want to take 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:40.720 you back to the Missoak river bank of Maraganti. Last September, Paraya. Daddy, 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:44.400 my fixer and I had woken up a no godly hour, 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:47.840 and so had the jungle birds. Along with half the 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:50.560 population of the village. We walked down to the river bank, 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:55.120 carrying the engines and fuel tanks. At Piraguas. A few 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:58.200 minutes later, a chorus of two stroke engines and smoke 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:00.800 fired up. As the boats set off towards Bajo Jaquito. 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:06.760 I stood in the bow, still trying to master the 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:09.280 use of the pole. As we passed through the faster moving, 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:12.920 shallower water. Daddy sat in the middle and laughed at me. 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:17.320 Despite my best efforts, we arrived in one piece in 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:19.960 Bajo Chiquito, and I launched myself from the bow into 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:23.000 knee deep water on the rocky beach. In front of 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:26.760 us stood hundreds of people patiently waiting for the piragueros 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:30.560 to take them north and out of the jungle. Stretched 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:32.640 like a snake all the way through town. The line 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:36.119 of migrants must have totaled one thousand people. I walked 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:39.760 backwards away from the boats, the only foreigner not leaving 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:44.200 look for people i'd met the day before. About halfway 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:47.440 down the line stood Primrose and Kim, and I stopped 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:49.320 while we chatted for a bit about what the boat 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:51.760 ride was like, what they could expect next. 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.920 Yeah, I'm going there. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to Nadist. 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:58.880 Do you have family, yeah, no, you just make your 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:00.160 American life. 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:00.880 It's okay. 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:03.640 I think I'm just trying. No, it's only me and 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:04.279 my daughter. 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:09.479 Despite this, they had found community on the journey. I 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.000 can't describe how scary it must be for two women 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.040 to set out on this journey alone. It takes an 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.240 awful lot to embark on that journey and to be 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:20.000 able to trust people when everyone is a potential threat. 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:23.200 But if there's one thing I learned in a jungle, 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:27.360 it's in the hardest times and the hardest places, the 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:31.360 only way forward is together. Primos reminded me of this, 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:35.800 telling me how complete strangers had helped her. 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.520 Very nice, especially the Spanish people. 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:39.520 They are very nice. 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.279 I don't want to life was if you need help, 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:45.000 you forgot them for your Look the other ones they 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.560 might run away by the other ones. 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.400 They just for your They. 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:54.480 Even give us tablets on the road, give us energy drinks, 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:58.800 give my daughter sweets for enage. They push us like, 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:02.839 let's go, guys, let's go, let's go. You make it, 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:04.159 and we really make it. 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:08.160 Yeah, yeah, that's really nice to hear. I asked Primrose 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:11.320 a question I asked everyone there. What did she hope 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:14.200 for when she got to America? What was her American dream? 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:17.240 What do you hope for her in America? What do 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:18.239 you want to do in America. 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:24.160 I want to go to school, then she can I 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:26.640 see something in life. I don't wish my daughter to 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:27.720 go big to sam Or. 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.160 No, yeah, not at all. No, it's very hard. 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:42.279 Yeah, it's really really Towrogate Gradi. 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.599 I saw them a few days later, Las Blancas Afred 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:50.880 sat with a group of little Venezuelan children playing a 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:53.920 game where we throw bottletops into a broken half cinder block. 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:00.359 We talked about the struggle they face to pay for 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:02.479 the bus north, and we didn't record anything that day, 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:06.280 but as I was leaving for the evening, Kim asked 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:09.000 me if I could buy her a drink. I generally 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:11.320 try not to splash my money around because I don't 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.400 have enough money to help everyone, and I still have 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:16.480 some scars from ridiculous concept of objectivity that would lead 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:19.320 some editors not to commission a story from me if 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:22.520 I gave the subject a gift. But this time I 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:24.640 felt like buying her a drink, and I let her 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:26.960 select the biggest bottle of cold soda she could find 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.120 in the little store in the camp there. I told 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:31.800 her and her mum to stay in touch and wrote 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:33.960 my number on a piece of my notebook, tore it 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:37.840 out and gave it to them. Months later, Kim was 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:40.880 holding the same scrap of paper, looking up her mum 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:43.920 stuck on the border wall. A whole lot had changed 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:47.280 since I last saw them. A few days after my 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:49.800 scripted podcast and the Daddy and Gap was released, the 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:52.960 United States elected Donald Trump as his forty seventh president. 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.280 It was a ship month all round that My phone, 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:58.840 as it often does, lit up with mesthews from my 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:01.840 daddy and friends asking me what this meant and if 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.560 Trump was going to close the border. I didn't really 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:06.960 know how to answer those questions, because if it's one 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:09.320 thing we know about Trumps, he changed his mind every 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:12.400 few weeks. As we got closer and closer to the 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.880 day he was inaugurated, they got more and more concerned. 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:18.880 Most of them hadn't made it out of southern Mexico. 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:21.120 Many of them had told me that things there were 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:24.800 even worse. In the jungle. They'd all been robbed, some 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:28.000 of them had been sexually assaulted, some of them kidnapped, 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:31.720 and some of them killed. I'd heard about all of 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:35.480 these things every day from September last year to January 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.120 this year. In the middle of a run or when 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:40.520 I was having dinner meeting a friend for a coffee, 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:44.679 my phone would ring and I'd be confronted with terrible injustice, 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:48.839 and I'd be totally powerless to set it right. As 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:51.600 time went on, I heard from fewer and fewer of them. 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:54.400 I assume their phones were stolen, but there are, of 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:56.800 course more upsetting explanations as to why they might have 0:08:56.800 --> 0:09:01.200 stopped contacting me. Noemi, little girl who wanted to visit 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:04.520 Minnie Mouse video called me once from Tappajula with a 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:06.800 little tiny toy bear that I'd given her and that 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:09.480 she kept with her on the whole journey. It may 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.040 be happy to see them and a silly little bear 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:14.520 carved from soapstone that had traveled the lengths of South 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:17.839 America with them. Every few weeks after I'd left, I'd 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:20.199 get photos of the bear in a different country. As 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:23.720 a little Osito worked its way closer to Disneyland, some 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.160 people who worked at Disneyland had reached out to offer 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:29.640 suggestions about tickets. Other people had reached out offering to pay. 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.480 I was, despite the odds, hoping that one day I 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.760 could help one little girl see her American dream come true. 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:40.680 When we spoke. She was with her mum and they 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.960 were trying to log onto CBP one hoping for an appointment, 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:48.080 but it wouldn't work on their old Android phones. I 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.839 tried to find shelters with reliable internet that would take 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:53.840 them in, and called friends and endious almost every week, 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:58.560 passing along questions or looking for resources. I spent hours calling, 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:01.440 finding it hard to except that the capacity for mutual 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.920 aid was so overwhelmed that nobody had a safe space 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:07.839 for little girl and her mom. I'm wondering if it 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.920 still felt like a pepper Pig adventure or if even 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:15.600 little indominitable Miami was scared now. Even from where I 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:18.320 was was fast internet and a weather friends across the 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:22.320 Western Hemisphere, I couldn't find the help people needed, and 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.280 it made me increasingly angry and anxious the more I tried. 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.800 It sucked, but there was still a chance, however slim, 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:32.360 that one day I might get to see Miami meet 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:36.280 Minnie Mouse. So I kept trying, and so did her mom. 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:41.520 Then one day I got no response from her mum's 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:44.480 WhatsApp when I messaged her. Nobody picked up the phone 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.680 when I tried to ring. I still haven't had a response, 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:52.600 but periodically, I'll keep trying. Even the last messages and 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.920 photos are gone now, after my wordsapp updated, Like so 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:57.920 many of the people who I shared my food with, 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:01.040 whose little children held my hand in darkness of the jungle, 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.280 who I desperately wished and wish I could do more for, 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:05.600 they're gone. 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:05.840 Now. 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:10.720 That's what strong borders means. It means brave little girls 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.800 disappearing so a politician who knows nothing of their struggles 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.560 can point to a statistic. I've listened to the interview 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:20.240 I conducted with them so many times since last September. 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:23.440 I still can't really work out anyone with a heart 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:25.800 could hear that and think they wanted to live in 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:29.199 a world where that little girl wasn't safe. But that's 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:33.040 what people voted for. I guess I don't think they did. Actually, 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:36.800 I can't think they did. I think people liked them, 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:39.920 and that's what they voted for. But nonetheless, here we 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:41.920 are now, sitting in a country that didn't want to 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:44.080 help the little girl who flexed he around muscles to 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:46.720 show me how strong she was after climbing the mountain 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.199 into the most dangerous land migration route in the Americas, 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:55.640 and told me, it was for her all an adventure. 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:57.800 Her mother gave a different account. 0:11:58.720 --> 0:11:59.280 There are. 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:04.559 I didn't want to cry because I didn't want her 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.160 to see me cry. But sometimes I would explode because 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:09.480 it's hard for your child to ask you for water, 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:12.439 to ask you for food, and you don't have any 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.120 to be in a place where you walk. You walk 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:17.439 from five in the morning, it's five in the afternoon. 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:19.760 You're walking, you don't know what to do, going through 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:21.920 more than one hundred rivers and asking God not to 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:25.000 rain and not wanting it to get worse. It rained 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:27.240 and the girl got a fever. She got a fever. 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:30.160 But well, God is good that we pray a lot. 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:33.160 I say that we don't know God so much in 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:36.000 the church from the process and the process that we 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:38.560 are in, and we don't know we can be so 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:41.200 strong until we go through that storm and we see 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:43.839 that He protect us. He knows that He was always 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:49.520 there watching over us, taking care of us at all times. 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.080 I don't want to dwell on this too long because 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:06.360 talking in public about grief is something I'm bad at. 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.320 One of my friends died fighting in Ukraine this year. 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:13.600 A colleague died just weeks before we'd planned a trip together. 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:18.000 Some of my Burmese friends died fighting. But even as 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:20.480 someone who talks to soldiers for a living, nothing really 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:23.600 compares to the death toll inflicted by the US border regime. 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:27.240 The little village in England where I grew up, there 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:29.680 are memorials in every town a village for the young 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.760 people who died fighting in the World Wars. If we 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.600 built those at the border, they'd soon be towering far 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:37.680 above the wall that does so much of the killing. 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:40.640 Things are as bad now as they have ever been. 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.120 The wall constructed in the San Diego sector that Trump 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:48.680 administration has proposed will wave environmental and cultural protections and 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:53.000 push migrants further into the desert. In the desert, further 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:57.079 from help, further from water, more of them will die. 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:00.680 Speak to migrants all the time, the ones who stayed 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.560 in Mexico, even the ones who took the Venezuelan governments 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:07.360 offerers of flights home. As much as they ask about America, 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.360 they also ask about each other. Do I know what 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:12.960 happened to the Angolans who shared their food too generously? 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:16.720 They say, no, I haven't heard from them. What about 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:20.240 the Venezuelan trans girl who braided their children's hair. Well, 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:22.600 she's still braiding hair, but she hasn't made it to 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.160 the US. Gradually she did make it, and then she 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:29.000 was immediately deported back to southern Mexico. How about Rose, 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.640 they say, the Boliviana who came all on her own 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.240 and founder found me along the trail, only to be 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.000 separated from them again. I haven't heard from her in 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:41.840 a year. Universally, they're happy to hear about Kim and Primrose. 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:44.800 They're glad to hear that someone made it, that somebody 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:47.960 can make it. Because of the more than one hundred 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:50.480 pages I tore out of my notebook with my phone number, 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:53.760 they are two of the three people who let me 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:56.960 know they made it here. So let's hear from Primrose 0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:00.160 about what it looks like to make it here, how 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.920 it feels to have the best outcome of anyone I met. 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:07.040 Let's pick up at Last blancas they now shattered migrant 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.880 reception center. We're a hundred language for weeks and months 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:13.320 trying to get together in the money to pay for 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:15.400 a bus to the Panama Costa Lika border. 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:22.240 I think I spent seven days in Banamah. What's short 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:26.840 with money? So I went into immigration trying to ask 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.000 them if you can they can help me to take 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:34.920 a bus to Costa Rica, of which they say, no, 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:38.520 you have to pay your sixty dollars you're in your daughter, 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:39.520 which one to India? 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:41.120 So I pay that? 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:46.640 So I ask you people man, the people I know, 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:50.520 they helped me with money. So from Banama we took 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.320 a bus from Banama to Costa Rica. 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:56.800 This is a very common story. People borrow money from 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:59.560 a huge range of friends and relatives along the way 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:03.120 they hope to get to the US, work hard, and 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.440 be able to pay it back. The whole process takes 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:09.960 every penny they've earned in their life and generate significant 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.920 amounts of debt. In most cases. This is made worse 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.120 by the fact that on arrival they will wait months, 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:18.760 if not years, for work permit, and their immigration judge 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:20.840 could stop the clock on this at any time for 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:25.000 any reason. Primros and Kim's case, Costady can move them 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.240 through it to territory quickly, as they do with nearly 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:30.359 all migrants. Next they arrived in Nicaragua. 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:36.680 Yeah, to Nicaragua. Then in Nicaragua, I think we walk 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:40.920 from Costa Rica border to Nicaragua border. Then we walk again. 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.880 I think it was it was walk from yeah to 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:47.400 Nicaragua bars tam in Us. 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.119 We just walk. Then we when we reached. 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:57.720 There, we paid again to wander Us. Then there's also 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.760 place we walked from Hondas. From nicarag got to wander 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:06.320 Us by Steminas. I think it just was the old day. 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:13.880 Then from wander Us Guatemalam. Yeah, in Guatemala we spent 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:19.440 it three days again because it was tough Guatemala. People 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:23.600 they really need asking for a lot of money. So 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:28.280 my life was like asking people, asking people and do 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:29.960 it and do it? Reach Mexico. 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:35.760 Then exhausted and broke, she in came made it to Mexico. 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:38.959 That you only began in Zimbabwe and took them from 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.320 there to South Africa, then to Brazil and across the continent. 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:45.400 Now they had just warn more country to go before 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.200 they made it. But I say, where to find out 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:51.240 this one country is the one that so many migrants 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:52.199 don't make it out of. 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:59.120 Then in Mexico, my life was like in this because 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:03.200 the day we charging a lot of money in In fact, 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:07.639 when we reach Mexico, we reached Tapatola and not before Tapatola, 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:13.600 I just forget the name. So they took us in 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:16.160 the bush where. 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:16.879 We paid money. 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:20.760 Again, when we paid money, they started seaching us. If 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:24.359 we don't live CAUs, then they walk with us. It 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:29.880 was two of midnight. They walk with us till they 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:34.040 get a transport to take us to Tapatola. So when 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:39.359 I reached Tapatola, I you know people. We were giving 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:43.359 information to each other. So I was also following other people, 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:48.320 like from Cameroons in Venezuela. So when we reached Tabachelo, 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:52.399 we reached Tarpacholo on the ted of October twenty twenty four. 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:57.399 Tapatula in the south of Mexico. It's where thousands of 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.800 migrants sent up. The Mexican government that had a policy 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.760 of trying to keep people there and began offering them 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.400 free bus rides north. They had a CBP one appointment. 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:10.159 But unlike places like Tijuana, where there have been migrants 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:12.920 gathered for many decades, there are not as many services 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:16.040 in Tapatula, and the shelters and services that exist there 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:19.800 are overwhelmed by the demand. The volume of migrants and 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:23.400 the relative absence of services leaves a space open for abuse. 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:27.359 That's what happened to Primrose and Kimberly. They ended up 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:30.080 paying someone who they thought could help them navigate the 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:33.640 complicated and convoluted system of registration in Mexico, the CBP 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:37.040 one app and then traveling north to the USA and 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:41.520 ultimately being able to make their asylum claim. Finally, in 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:43.800 the end, what they got was the opposite of help. 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.919 Then the agents charged us four thousand each, which is 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:51.720 me four thousand in the main twitter four thousand of 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:56.000 which I was I wasn't lift that month other people 0:19:56.080 --> 0:20:00.680 that we're paying. So I just talked to the agent. 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:03.120 Then I said, okay, you please go down a little 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:06.240 bit because I'm a single party. And then I don't 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:09.280 have anyone to help me with that kind of money. 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:12.600 Then he said, okay, three point five. So I started 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:18.120 asking people because the people I know, maybe they can 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:22.919 help me. So I have a lady helped me with 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:26.160 the money, which is she gave me four thousand years. 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:32.879 Then my mom saw my land. I was saving a 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:39.080 land with which she saw which leaves money. Then she 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:42.399 said even also he is stuff to get another man 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:47.120 to complete seven thousand. So we asked someone to send 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:49.880 it to America. Goes in Mexico, they don't receive money 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:53.439 from Africa, so I find someone here in America to 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:57.200 receive the money, so send it to me in Mexico. 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:03.040 But when I paid the man, the agent took me. 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:06.359 He said that way, I'm going to take you. So 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:10.879 you sent the guys, which there were four mixed and guys. 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:17.280 So they come to feature us. We were six seven. Yeah, 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:18.600 I don't even know it. 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:19.639 They took us. 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:23.280 So they took us to the to the bush which 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:28.320 is Guajaradella. I can't even remember, is it. Yeah, I 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:34.760 think so. I spent day from October up to January. 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:39.960 In the background here you're here splashing. That's came playing 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:41.959 in the pool. A little apartment complex where they were 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:45.159 living in East La I just common for migrants to 0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:47.760 share a flat with someone else. Didn't have much in 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:50.000 the way of furniture. But the last time I saw 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:54.240 primaries came. It was by the Tuquessa River in Last Plancas. There, 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:57.480 the brown water was something to be afraid of. Migrants 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:00.960 died crossing the river every day, away by the fast 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:04.200 moving water and relying only on strangers to hold them 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:06.600 as the current tried to pull them in. A few 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:08.960 times I walked out into that river I felt the 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:11.560 tug of the current on my boots. I wondered what 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:14.479 it must be like higher up in the mountains. At 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:17.040 six foot three. The river I crossed never came above 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:21.240 waist high. It's deeper higher up. But even then, reaching 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:23.600 out my hand to carry someone's bag or grab a 0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:26.000 child's hand as they came from other direction and struggle 0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:28.000 to keep their toddlers and their few possessions out of 0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:30.679 the current, I get little jolts of fear when I 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:34.399 stepped on a wet rock. His Primrose talking about that 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:36.960 part of her journey, I wasn't good. 0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:39.280 My daughter. 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:43.200 She was strong, she was strong, but she was crying also, 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:46.760 but she had what wound all over the body. Even me, 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:49.119 I was crying myself. I was like, I want to 0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:52.159 just put myself in the water, then I can just go. 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:57.359 The Jane was tough, really really tough. The mountain, the stores, 0:22:58.080 --> 0:22:58.600 the river. 0:22:58.880 --> 0:22:59.719 It's not easy. 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:04.159 It Oh, it's not a very I don't even recommended 0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:07.240 someone to say you use that and give no. And 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:10.560 even myself I did know about it. Yeah, I was 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:11.640 regretting myself. 0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:12.440 I was crying. 0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:16.320 I was like, God, I don't know my family and 0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:19.000 my family they don't know where I am right now. 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:23.280 Back in Los Angeles, primers told me that she'd fallen 0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:26.119 in the river and two Venezuelan men had jumped in 0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:29.399 to pull her and came out total strangers on their 0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:31.920 own journey, had risked their lives to help a woman 0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:35.120 and child who didn't know, with whom they couldn't even speak. 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:39.560 The river kills people who drink it too. The concentration 0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:42.000 of human waste and human remains in the water makes 0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:45.760 it incredibly dangerous to drink, even for people dying of thirst. 0:23:47.280 --> 0:23:49.760 I couldn't stop thinking of that river and how much 0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:53.040 it scared people, Feeling so grateful the Kimberley could still 0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:56.359 enjoy the water after all of that. Next time, I said, 0:23:56.600 --> 0:23:58.200 they could take the train down to San Diego and 0:23:58.240 --> 0:24:12.080 we could all go to the beach. Let's go back 0:24:12.080 --> 0:24:16.639 to Mexico. Now to Guadalajara, where many migrants told me 0:24:16.640 --> 0:24:19.200 that of all the things they had endured, including the jungle, 0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:24.000 things were the worst of all. Promoters arrival in Mexico 0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:26.600 had not been great, and having paid one person, she 0:24:26.720 --> 0:24:29.080 was now being held by another group and asked for 0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:30.000 yet more money. 0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:34.879 They were kid nipping me they were asking for fifteen 0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:38.040 thousand dollars each. They said, you're not going to take you. 0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:40.520 I think I was. 0:24:40.480 --> 0:24:43.400 Crying, Kim. She was also crying. 0:24:45.400 --> 0:24:49.640 The other people they will get money paid and leaves, 0:24:50.920 --> 0:24:53.560 I think from my group. For the people they were 0:24:53.640 --> 0:24:56.800 kids nipping. It was only me left in the Kim 0:24:57.200 --> 0:25:04.800 and I was crying depression. I think of him, but 0:25:04.800 --> 0:25:09.040 I tried. I tried, you want to escape, run away? 0:25:10.119 --> 0:25:13.240 I feel down and my leg was something else. I 0:25:13.240 --> 0:25:17.640 didn't even go to hospital. My leg was swollen, and 0:25:17.720 --> 0:25:22.960 the way they would treat us it was paid, especially 0:25:22.960 --> 0:25:26.439 when I came the other one once touching me the 0:25:26.560 --> 0:25:30.560 whole board like. I was like, please, if you want 0:25:30.600 --> 0:25:33.639 to do something, you can do it to me. And 0:25:33.960 --> 0:25:36.399 plus don't do it in front of my daughter because 0:25:37.400 --> 0:25:41.959 she was also crying. Disturbing. I didn't even go to hospital. 0:25:42.000 --> 0:25:48.240 I asked them to go to hospital. They refuse. Yeah, James, 0:25:48.760 --> 0:25:52.040 I'm too emotional. I'm sorry because. 0:25:53.760 --> 0:25:58.159 Primrose understandably had trouble even recounting this story. It's not 0:25:58.240 --> 0:26:01.080 the sort of memory that's easy to share. But just 0:26:01.119 --> 0:26:03.880 when things seemed to be beyond repair, when it seemed 0:26:03.920 --> 0:26:06.480 like there was nothing to hope for it was Kimberly 0:26:06.480 --> 0:26:08.520 who came through to help her mom. 0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:15.520 Yeah, they no, So Kim Malish was like, uh, lending Spanish, 0:26:15.520 --> 0:26:18.440 so she was understanding some of the winds. 0:26:18.480 --> 0:26:19.679 So she's just telling me. 0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:22.800 This guy also was like, why can't you leave this 0:26:22.840 --> 0:26:27.800 woman because she doesn't live money. Because those people they 0:26:27.840 --> 0:26:30.199 took my phone, they even break it in front of 0:26:30.359 --> 0:26:34.720 my eyes. The fhe I was heaving from Africa. 0:26:36.080 --> 0:26:37.760 Kim Spanish was pretty good by the time I met 0:26:37.800 --> 0:26:40.760 them in Los Angeles this summer. Went out for dinner 0:26:40.840 --> 0:26:42.960 and I asked him what she'd liked to eat. She 0:26:43.000 --> 0:26:45.640 said she wanted to try seafood and practice her Spanish. 0:26:46.320 --> 0:26:48.919 So we went to a Mexican seafood place complete with 0:26:48.960 --> 0:26:52.960 cabaina decord taxi dirmy fish on the wall, and the 0:26:53.000 --> 0:26:56.560 waitress kindly helped Kim order in Spanish, patiently showing her 0:26:56.600 --> 0:26:59.040 different menu items and smiling is Kim read them off. 0:27:00.000 --> 0:27:02.119 It was a happy moment for me and what I 0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:03.919 didn't think i'd ever be having when I moved here 0:27:03.960 --> 0:27:07.000 in the bush Era, but that part of southern California 0:27:07.000 --> 0:27:09.480 has always been a welcoming place for me. When I 0:27:09.520 --> 0:27:11.919 was in my twenties and racing bugs for a living. I'd 0:27:11.960 --> 0:27:14.679 fly into Lax and often ended up spending the night 0:27:14.720 --> 0:27:17.520 at Union Station or Alvera Street before taking a train 0:27:17.600 --> 0:27:21.320 to San Diego. I speak Spanish. I always felt like 0:27:21.359 --> 0:27:23.400 the people I met there were such a better reflection 0:27:23.480 --> 0:27:25.800 of la than the betrayal we see of it in 0:27:25.840 --> 0:27:29.720 the media. Now. A decade and a half later, sitting 0:27:29.720 --> 0:27:31.960 in a Mexican restaurant, when a lady from Nadie helped 0:27:32.000 --> 0:27:34.960 the little girl from Zimbabwe speaks Spanish, it felt like 0:27:35.000 --> 0:27:37.360 a little glimpse of the way we're told things are 0:27:37.440 --> 0:27:40.720 here and the way they can be in working class communities. 0:27:41.480 --> 0:27:44.560 A nation built by migrants, yes, on stolen land, but 0:27:44.640 --> 0:27:47.400 one that nonetheless welcome people who needed help and took 0:27:47.440 --> 0:27:51.400 the time to help them. Sadly, not everyone was helpful 0:27:51.480 --> 0:27:54.800 on Kim and Primrose's journey, and when her captors realized 0:27:54.840 --> 0:27:56.960 she had no money to pay them, they eventually just 0:27:57.000 --> 0:27:57.960 decided to let her go. 0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:04.120 I think on January seven or fifth, I don't remember. 0:28:04.560 --> 0:28:10.000 Then they just took us. Then they just doumbus. I 0:28:10.040 --> 0:28:13.639 don't even know. Then a star I saw an immigration 0:28:14.400 --> 0:28:18.240 immigration officer with the guy with the car. Then I 0:28:18.280 --> 0:28:24.680 stop him. Then I translate to ask him to Then 0:28:24.720 --> 0:28:28.639 they said, okay, get inside the car. They took us 0:28:28.880 --> 0:28:35.879 to immigration, so we get a pass from there to 0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:40.880 another town. Because I was like shifting, shifting, shifting, asking 0:28:41.480 --> 0:28:46.719 to I get to Joanna. But those guys before they 0:28:46.800 --> 0:28:50.280 told me like, wherever you go, even if you are 0:28:50.320 --> 0:28:56.000 here in Mexico, we put a tracker for you, so 0:28:56.160 --> 0:28:59.720 if you tell anyone, if we find you're going to 0:28:59.800 --> 0:29:05.080 kill So me, I was scared. Yeah, I was scared. 0:29:06.360 --> 0:29:08.600 So I didn't tell you, even the immigration officer. 0:29:09.200 --> 0:29:12.840 Yeah, yeah. Do I get to te Joanna? 0:29:13.040 --> 0:29:17.040 So we get to John on the trendred of Chanuy. 0:29:17.920 --> 0:29:22.000 So I just asked the Mexicans people. Then there's a 0:29:22.040 --> 0:29:24.320 guy also said okay, I would try to help you, 0:29:25.080 --> 0:29:28.720 but you need to pay ye. Then I said I 0:29:28.760 --> 0:29:30.920 don't leave money. Said if you don't leave money, we 0:29:30.960 --> 0:29:34.560 can't help you. So I was like, I'm only asking people, 0:29:34.600 --> 0:29:38.240 asking every people to help me, and the other people 0:29:38.240 --> 0:29:40.200 they were just opening me was I said, people, we 0:29:40.440 --> 0:29:43.840 look where I am with my daughter, I'm far, but 0:29:44.080 --> 0:29:50.120 my family, the other family, especially my my other family 0:29:50.160 --> 0:29:53.640 member the way, don't even know where I am M. 0:29:54.920 --> 0:29:59.680 So those guys from to Joanna, they said, guys, if 0:29:59.680 --> 0:30:03.200 you're much crossing today, you're not going to crosscous. Look 0:30:03.240 --> 0:30:05.720 the president, you said, he's going to shut down all 0:30:05.760 --> 0:30:06.800 the borders. 0:30:08.160 --> 0:30:11.840 In between November and January, non stop roomors circulated in 0:30:11.920 --> 0:30:15.480 giant whatsap groups. Trump was closing the border, Biden was 0:30:15.520 --> 0:30:18.560 opening it. Most migrants didn't have the means to get 0:30:18.600 --> 0:30:22.120 to the southern border even if they tried. CVP one 0:30:22.200 --> 0:30:26.400 remained mostly useless, and people spent days, weeks, months refreshing 0:30:26.440 --> 0:30:30.520 it to no avail. Those who did get appointments would 0:30:30.520 --> 0:30:33.960 find them canceled once a new administration came into office. 0:30:34.040 --> 0:30:36.440 Their reward for doing things in the so called right 0:30:36.480 --> 0:30:38.800 way was to be left with no options in a 0:30:38.840 --> 0:30:43.959 country where they were anything but safe and far from home. Mostly, 0:30:44.000 --> 0:30:46.600 my friends in the jungle have retained their incredibly good humor. 0:30:47.280 --> 0:30:49.440 Delithroil and friends video caught me once when I was 0:30:49.480 --> 0:30:52.840 on a hike. They started laughing at me sweating going uphill, 0:30:53.160 --> 0:30:55.760 and paused a conversation to shout encouragement for a while. 0:30:56.720 --> 0:30:59.320 A year after I left the jungle, I would still 0:30:59.360 --> 0:31:01.400 be more than how happy to welcome these people as 0:31:01.400 --> 0:31:06.040 my neighbors. But it seems unlikely I ever will. Border 0:31:06.040 --> 0:31:10.760 crossings have dropped dramatically. They're not that's the administration sometimes 0:31:10.760 --> 0:31:14.960 claims zero, but they are lower. People die crossing the 0:31:15.000 --> 0:31:18.360 border still. Sometimes the volunteers you've heard in my last 0:31:18.400 --> 0:31:21.000 series have to hike miles into the desert and sift 0:31:21.000 --> 0:31:24.600 through sand and rocks to search their remains. Once nature 0:31:24.640 --> 0:31:29.080 scatism like leaves blowing around the canyons. Sometimes I'm there 0:31:29.120 --> 0:31:32.880 with them. Sometimes we all wooden crosses up mountains. So 0:31:32.920 --> 0:31:35.560 don't have names on the map to mark the places 0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:38.960 where people's dreams died. Those people don't get a viral 0:31:39.040 --> 0:31:41.719 video or a story in the New York Times, because 0:31:42.760 --> 0:31:45.680 even at a time where people are more engaged than 0:31:45.720 --> 0:31:48.720 they ever have been in my lifetime in advocacy for migrants, 0:31:49.360 --> 0:31:52.000 there's still not much attention paid to the actual border 0:31:52.240 --> 0:31:56.880 that every single migrant has to cross Tomorrow. That's what 0:31:56.920 --> 0:31:59.680 we're going to talk about. But let's hear from Primrose 0:31:59.720 --> 0:32:03.040 about had that same day, January twentieth, went for her. 0:32:04.440 --> 0:32:08.520 Then they took us to the boat to the border, 0:32:08.920 --> 0:32:12.200 but we couldn't get in the gates while they were closed. 0:32:13.080 --> 0:32:15.680 Then they said no, we have an option. We need 0:32:15.720 --> 0:32:18.200 to take you. But you know, for me, I had 0:32:18.280 --> 0:32:22.240 to take it risk because I was scared to stay 0:32:22.280 --> 0:32:27.000 in Mexico. So they took us with under the bridge, 0:32:27.200 --> 0:32:30.040 I think the sewage. We were walking with our stomach 0:32:30.200 --> 0:32:36.239 like under the bridge to we get to USA and 0:32:37.120 --> 0:32:39.760 Mexican borders. So they put ladder for us to help 0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:43.040 us to but we paid them three fifty three fifty. 0:32:44.880 --> 0:32:45.400 They charge. 0:32:45.920 --> 0:32:48.640 I found the other people they also we were fifteen 0:32:48.720 --> 0:32:54.840 years We were fifteen. Yeah, then the yop us to jump. 0:33:17.760 --> 0:33:20.200 The departy. 0:33:21.280 --> 0:33:25.080 Some of us are illegal and some are not wanted. 0:33:26.240 --> 0:33:29.480 Our work contracts out and we have to move on 0:33:31.120 --> 0:33:36.800 six hundred miles to that Mexico border. They chase us 0:33:37.000 --> 0:33:44.400 like outlaws and rustlers, like thieves. Goodbye I one, goodbye. 0:33:43.960 --> 0:33:51.840 Rosalidados and egos, Jesus and Maria. You won't have a 0:33:52.000 --> 0:33:56.400 name when you ride the big airplane, and all we 0:33:56.520 --> 0:33:57.320 will call. 0:33:57.200 --> 0:34:00.080 You will be departy. 0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:06.240 On the twenty eighth day of January nineteen forty eight, 0:34:06.440 --> 0:34:10.000 a plane took off from Oakland, California. On board with 0:34:10.120 --> 0:34:14.080 a crew, an Immigration Nationalization Service officer, and twenty eight 0:34:14.120 --> 0:34:16.200 people who had come to the US to work in 0:34:16.200 --> 0:34:19.920 the Brasero program. They were being sent to Elcentra, where 0:34:19.920 --> 0:34:24.080 they were to be deported to Mexico. The pilot, Frankie Atkinson, 0:34:24.239 --> 0:34:26.840 had found a job flying DC three's as a civilian 0:34:27.400 --> 0:34:30.680 after flying the legendarily dangerous Hump route between India and 0:34:30.760 --> 0:34:34.920 China in the Second World War. His wife, Bobby, herself 0:34:34.960 --> 0:34:36.920 the daughter of a migrant mother, was filling in that 0:34:37.040 --> 0:34:40.440 day as the usual flight attendants weren't available. On board 0:34:40.440 --> 0:34:43.680 with twenty eight passengers, all headed back to Mexico after 0:34:43.800 --> 0:34:46.840 United States, where they come to work, had decided it 0:34:46.840 --> 0:34:50.080 didn't need or want them any longer. The plane never 0:34:50.160 --> 0:34:54.200 landed in El Center. It was overdue for maintenance and 0:34:54.280 --> 0:34:57.959 its left engine court fire. Then it's wing ripped off 0:34:58.680 --> 0:35:01.560 above co Linger, not so far from the fields where 0:35:01.560 --> 0:35:04.520 many of them had worked for year after year. The 0:35:04.560 --> 0:35:07.160 passengers were pulled out of the plane into the sky. 0:35:08.000 --> 0:35:11.200 Most of them had never flown before. They must have 0:35:11.239 --> 0:35:13.560 been nervous before they took off, and now their worst 0:35:13.560 --> 0:35:16.719 fears were coming true. And those who survived the loss 0:35:16.719 --> 0:35:19.719 of pressure and being ripped from the cabin, in some 0:35:19.800 --> 0:35:22.400 cases still strapped to their seats must have had that 0:35:22.560 --> 0:35:25.440 very worst fears confirmed as they plummeted toward the ground 0:35:25.480 --> 0:35:28.120 that had only stopped being part of Mexico one hundred 0:35:28.200 --> 0:35:32.160 years and four days before. Their bodies or parts of 0:35:32.200 --> 0:35:36.120 them were scattered through the canyon as the plane slammed 0:35:36.120 --> 0:35:39.880 into the ground. There weren't enough seats for all the passengers, 0:35:40.560 --> 0:35:42.200 and so three of them were forced to sit on 0:35:42.239 --> 0:35:45.160 their luggage at the back. The plane was over its 0:35:45.239 --> 0:35:48.360 maximum wake capacity, and that might have been why the 0:35:48.360 --> 0:35:50.759 white smoke began pouring out of its left engine over 0:35:50.840 --> 0:35:54.759 Colinger Frankie, the pilot had survived crashes in this time 0:35:54.760 --> 0:35:57.400 of the Air Force, so hopefully he was able to 0:35:57.440 --> 0:35:59.959 keep his pastures and crew calm until the engine burst 0:36:00.120 --> 0:36:03.799 into flame. Some witnesses reported seeing people jump from the 0:36:03.800 --> 0:36:06.360 plane after its left wing tore off and began to 0:36:06.400 --> 0:36:09.160 plummet towards the ground, but it's just as likely that 0:36:09.200 --> 0:36:12.760 they were pulled out. The plane hit the ground about 0:36:12.760 --> 0:36:16.360 a mile east of Fresno County Industrial Road camp or 0:36:16.400 --> 0:36:19.840 incarcerated people were being forced to work. In Mates were 0:36:19.880 --> 0:36:22.600 immediately dispatched to comb the hills through remains of people 0:36:22.680 --> 0:36:27.480 aboard the plane. Locals like Red shoulders whose rinds are 0:36:27.480 --> 0:36:30.680 plane crashed on, rushed up there to join them, and 0:36:30.719 --> 0:36:34.719 they hoped to help the survivors. On finding none, they 0:36:34.760 --> 0:36:38.759 began to fight the fire. Around the wreckage. Prisoners found luggage, 0:36:39.160 --> 0:36:43.640 women's shoes, and babies, clothes, them bodies, some of them 0:36:43.800 --> 0:36:47.640 still in their seats, littered throughout the canyon. Only sixteen 0:36:47.680 --> 0:36:51.320 sets of remained whoever identified, including the entire crew and 0:36:51.360 --> 0:36:56.920 the irons guard. Bobby, identified by her engagement ring, was 0:36:56.960 --> 0:36:59.560 pregnant at the time. She was buried with Frankie in 0:36:59.600 --> 0:37:03.200 New York. Frankie's co pilot, Martin Ewing, was buried with 0:37:03.239 --> 0:37:07.319 military honors. Frank Chaffin, the ins agent, was buried back 0:37:07.360 --> 0:37:11.640 in Berkeley. The remains of the twenty eight deportees, or 0:37:11.640 --> 0:37:14.640 whatever had been found of them, were buried on mass 0:37:14.719 --> 0:37:18.960 in Holy Cross Cemetery in Fresno. Hundreds of local Latino people, 0:37:19.680 --> 0:37:22.360 most of whom didn't know that, turned up towards to 0:37:22.440 --> 0:37:26.719 twenty eight coffins, some of which were empty, be interred 0:37:26.719 --> 0:37:28.520 in the eighty four for a hole in the ground 0:37:28.600 --> 0:37:31.600 that was reserved for them. The hole was covered with 0:37:31.680 --> 0:37:36.400 dirt and eventually with grass, and there they remained without names, 0:37:36.840 --> 0:37:41.880 without their families being told, for three quarters of a century. 0:37:42.160 --> 0:37:44.000 The next day, The New York Times reported on the 0:37:44.040 --> 0:37:50.760 story the worst aviation accident in California history. The names, ages, 0:37:50.920 --> 0:37:53.880 and hometowns of the crew and the irons agent were given, 0:37:54.480 --> 0:38:00.720 along with quote twenty eight Mexican agricultural workers. Wives apparently 0:38:00.719 --> 0:38:03.880 were unremarkable, and even in death, they didn't deserve the 0:38:03.920 --> 0:38:07.360 dignity of being mentioned by name. Like people, It's a 0:38:07.400 --> 0:38:12.319 story that, eighty years later, is only too familiar. The 0:38:12.360 --> 0:38:14.759 song we up in this episode with was written by 0:38:14.760 --> 0:38:18.680 an American anti fascist folk musician named Woody Guthrie. Like 0:38:18.800 --> 0:38:21.800 many of his songs, it's a protest song. It recalls 0:38:21.800 --> 0:38:24.840 the plane wreck. There's one home recording of him singing 0:38:24.880 --> 0:38:26.680 it to a tune that isn't used to sing a 0:38:26.760 --> 0:38:29.080 song today. It was only uncovered a few months ago. 0:38:30.040 --> 0:38:32.319 Guthrie has moved to write it when he noticed that 0:38:32.480 --> 0:38:35.160 in a reporting on the crash none of them migrants 0:38:35.160 --> 0:38:37.600 who were being deported on the plane were named. He 0:38:37.680 --> 0:38:40.240 wrote the song as a poem because at a time 0:38:40.600 --> 0:38:42.800 his Huntington's career had made it hard for him to 0:38:42.840 --> 0:38:46.640 sing and strum the guitar. Later, a student of Colorado 0:38:46.719 --> 0:38:49.560 A and M named Marty Hoffman set the poem to 0:38:49.640 --> 0:38:53.600 a Mexican Branchera melody. It didn't become popular as a 0:38:53.640 --> 0:38:57.280 song until Guthrie's friend Pete Seger began performing get at concerts. 0:38:57.920 --> 0:38:59.919 Hoffman had played it to him when Sega had visited 0:39:00.080 --> 0:39:04.840 the campus Ballad club. Guthrie, whose guitar famously carried the 0:39:04.880 --> 0:39:08.520 slogan this machine Kills Fascists, was in declining health by 0:39:08.520 --> 0:39:10.440 the time he wrote the poem in nineteen forty eight, 0:39:10.719 --> 0:39:14.200 and he never lived to hear it sung. Hoffman, who 0:39:14.239 --> 0:39:16.759 died by suicide in Red Rock, Arizona, where he was 0:39:16.800 --> 0:39:20.480 teaching on the Navajo Reservation, died right as Joan Bayez 0:39:20.640 --> 0:39:24.359 was recording the song in the studio. Today, it's one 0:39:24.360 --> 0:39:27.680 of Guthrie's best known works, of course, when he wrote 0:39:27.719 --> 0:39:29.839 the song to his discuss, Guthrie didn't know the name 0:39:29.920 --> 0:39:32.759 to the people on the plane. He imagined them in 0:39:32.760 --> 0:39:37.040 his poem as Juan Maria Rosalita, the sort of people 0:39:37.080 --> 0:39:39.240 he might meet on any given day as a touring 0:39:39.320 --> 0:39:42.680 musician who was finally received by working people wherever he went. 0:39:43.640 --> 0:39:47.120 I know a juan A Maria and a rose from 0:39:47.160 --> 0:39:50.239 the Darien Gap. I've also searched in the hills and 0:39:50.280 --> 0:39:52.239 the mountains, so the remains of people whose names I 0:39:52.280 --> 0:39:56.200 don't know eighty years later. So the song resonates with me. 0:39:58.320 --> 0:39:59.719 Father's old father. 0:40:00.400 --> 0:40:01.960 He waited that river. 0:40:02.960 --> 0:40:06.640 Other before him have done just the same. 0:40:08.480 --> 0:40:11.799 They died in the hill, and they died. 0:40:11.760 --> 0:40:19.480 In the valley, somewhere to heaven without any name. Goodbye 0:40:19.680 --> 0:40:25.400 to my one good prose a leader adius me amvil 0:40:25.800 --> 0:40:27.879 presusbody else. 0:40:29.360 --> 0:40:30.920 You won't have a name. 0:40:31.200 --> 0:40:34.040 When you ride the big airway. 0:40:34.280 --> 0:40:43.040 All they will call you will leader. Before the twenty 0:40:43.040 --> 0:40:45.239 five men and three women aboard came to the US 0:40:45.280 --> 0:40:48.120 to fill labor shortages after World War Two as a 0:40:48.160 --> 0:40:50.719 result of an agreement between the two states called the 0:40:50.760 --> 0:40:54.359 Brassero Program. The Mexican government didn't want to lose its 0:40:54.400 --> 0:40:57.520 whole agricultural workforce. I wanted to ensure that workers in 0:40:57.560 --> 0:40:59.680 the US would send a portion of their wages home, 0:41:00.080 --> 0:41:02.279 so it held these wages in accounts, which some of 0:41:02.320 --> 0:41:05.720 them never saw again for years. The Mexican government refused 0:41:05.719 --> 0:41:08.560 to extend the program to Texas because of racist violence there. 0:41:09.280 --> 0:41:12.759 People who entered the program waited months, and when they 0:41:12.800 --> 0:41:16.360 crossed the border, they were subject to abusive searches, spraying 0:41:16.400 --> 0:41:20.759 with DDT and in some places zyclon B same gas 0:41:20.880 --> 0:41:24.239 used in the gas chambers the Holocaust was used to 0:41:24.280 --> 0:41:27.480 hose down their clothes. When they got to the US, 0:41:27.560 --> 0:41:30.800 many of them worked in very poor conditions. Many chose 0:41:30.840 --> 0:41:34.600 not to wait and instead crossed without papers. Some farmers 0:41:34.680 --> 0:41:37.360 hired them for much less than the minimum Bressello program 0:41:37.400 --> 0:41:40.080 wage and put them to work in worse conditions in 0:41:40.120 --> 0:41:44.080 the program permitted. Others worked their alloted contracts in the program, 0:41:44.360 --> 0:41:46.600 and they stayed, hoping to make a better life in 0:41:46.640 --> 0:41:49.120 the USA or to earn some money they could keep 0:41:49.200 --> 0:41:52.160 before they went home. Many of them came and went 0:41:52.280 --> 0:41:55.359 several times, returning home until them need to make more 0:41:55.400 --> 0:41:58.520 money overwhelmed the desire to remain and work their heroes 0:41:58.600 --> 0:42:02.680 or parcels across Mexico. The Mexican government wanted those who 0:42:02.719 --> 0:42:05.320 travel without a contract to be barred from being hired, 0:42:05.960 --> 0:42:09.480 and in many case government officials in Mexico accepted bribes 0:42:09.600 --> 0:42:12.400 to allow worker to enter the program. Just as it 0:42:12.520 --> 0:42:17.120 is today, everyone made money apart from the migrants Basserro's 0:42:17.200 --> 0:42:19.759 letters were censored to prevent them asking their families to 0:42:19.840 --> 0:42:23.920 join them, but nonetheless a racist panic about undocumented migration began, 0:42:24.680 --> 0:42:27.000 especially after Frankie and thousands of others return from the 0:42:27.000 --> 0:42:30.040 war and the manpower shortage was not so acute. This, 0:42:30.480 --> 0:42:34.000 combined with demands from the Mexican government, led to Eisenhower 0:42:34.000 --> 0:42:38.120 eventually adopting a program whose name is a slur to catch, detain, 0:42:38.239 --> 0:42:40.840 and deport Mexican people to parts of their birth country 0:42:40.880 --> 0:42:44.160 they'd never been to, far from the border, far from 0:42:44.200 --> 0:42:48.320 their families and communities. The operation, which focused on rapid 0:42:48.320 --> 0:42:52.320 deportations and border regions, is often cited as an inspiration 0:42:52.400 --> 0:42:56.759 for today's border issue. Seventy six years after Guthrie wrote 0:42:56.800 --> 0:42:59.239 his song, very little has changed in the way the 0:42:59.320 --> 0:43:03.160 legacy media covers migration. Maybe that's why everyone from Dolly 0:43:03.200 --> 0:43:06.960 Parton to Bob Dylan, Chris Christofferson, will and Jennings, Johnny Cash, 0:43:07.000 --> 0:43:10.120 Willie Nelson, and Bruce Springsteen a sung a version of 0:43:10.160 --> 0:43:13.279 this song. Here's Johnny Cash describing the song before a 0:43:13.280 --> 0:43:14.239 TV performance. 0:43:14.920 --> 0:43:17.320 Johnny Cash, I understand this is a true story. This 0:43:17.400 --> 0:43:20.120 is from our album The Highwayman. Jona Rodriguez was on 0:43:20.160 --> 0:43:23.440 an album as well. On this song, you understand it 0:43:23.480 --> 0:43:25.880 is a true story what it got wrote this about 0:43:26.280 --> 0:43:31.000 a plane crash in was it Los Bato's Canyon, taking 0:43:31.000 --> 0:43:35.000 a plainload of Mexicans back after they worked for whatever 0:43:35.000 --> 0:43:37.000 they could get in this country. It's one of those 0:43:37.000 --> 0:43:42.080 old stories about malfreedment of aliens. 0:43:41.600 --> 0:43:44.799 One of those old stories. He says, it seems so 0:43:44.840 --> 0:43:47.920 hopeful in nineteen eighty seven, like we wouldn't be writing 0:43:47.960 --> 0:43:51.080 anymore because most people could accept that nobody should treat 0:43:51.120 --> 0:43:55.000 other people like that. Anyway. That was before country music 0:43:55.040 --> 0:43:58.399 was entirely dominated by boot liquors. And here I am 0:43:58.400 --> 0:44:01.480 playing it to you again, eighty years after it was written, 0:44:01.880 --> 0:44:05.440 because it is still relevant. Dolly Parton's singing it. 0:44:06.080 --> 0:44:13.040 My father's own father, he waited that room. They took 0:44:13.160 --> 0:44:19.280 all the money he made in his life. 0:44:20.560 --> 0:44:22.080 My brothers and. 0:44:22.480 --> 0:44:29.160 Sisters come working the fruit trees. They rolled the truck 0:44:29.239 --> 0:44:38.680 till they took down down. The airplane caught fire over 0:44:38.880 --> 0:44:46.759 Lascatto's Canyon, a fireball of lightning that shook all he 0:44:50.080 --> 0:44:55.600 who are these dear friends are scattered like dry leys. 0:44:56.680 --> 0:45:02.560 The radio set. They weren't yes, the poem. 0:45:04.440 --> 0:45:06.520 Good Night tom. 0:45:10.960 --> 0:45:18.040 I as a song puts it. The bodies of the 0:45:18.040 --> 0:45:20.840 workers were scattered like dry leaves across Los Gatos Canyon. 0:45:21.760 --> 0:45:24.239 The bodies of those twenty eight people, the parts that 0:45:24.280 --> 0:45:26.719 were recovered, were buried in a mass grave at the 0:45:26.719 --> 0:45:30.640 Holy Cross Cemetery in Fresno, mark later thanks to a 0:45:30.719 --> 0:45:34.360 donation with a small plaque calling the Mexican nationals, although 0:45:34.400 --> 0:45:37.600 one of them was also Spanish. The hard work of 0:45:37.640 --> 0:45:40.080 finding these people's names was taken up by people not 0:45:40.120 --> 0:45:43.759 even alive when that plane crashed. Many of their relatives 0:45:43.800 --> 0:45:46.560 did not even know they were buried there until Carlos Rascon, 0:45:46.960 --> 0:45:51.399 the Fresno Diocese director of Cemeteries, and Tim Hernandez, an 0:45:51.440 --> 0:45:55.880 author and professor at UTL Paso, dedicated themselves to naming them. 0:45:56.239 --> 0:45:58.680 In twenty thirteen, a new headstone was directed with their 0:45:58.760 --> 0:46:03.160 names and as Sarah Many, which packed the cemetery. Hernandez 0:46:03.200 --> 0:46:06.399 had found after years of hard work, by locating one 0:46:06.400 --> 0:46:09.680 of their nephews a copy of El Faro, a local 0:46:09.760 --> 0:46:13.080 Spanish language newspaper, which provided a list that was more 0:46:13.080 --> 0:46:16.480 accurate than that in the Fresno County Records Department. It 0:46:16.640 --> 0:46:20.560 wasn't until September twenty eighth, twenty twenty four, when I 0:46:20.760 --> 0:46:23.759 just left Primrose and Kimberly in Las Blancas, that a 0:46:23.840 --> 0:46:27.160 proper memorial was built for them in the Canyon. Families 0:46:27.200 --> 0:46:30.360 traveled from across the US and Mexico to open the memorial. 0:46:31.000 --> 0:46:34.080 Some of them were funded by Woody Guthrie's grandchildren. The 0:46:34.200 --> 0:46:38.160 names of all twenty eight of them were included. They 0:46:38.200 --> 0:46:45.960 were Miguel ne Grete, Alvarez, Francisco Jamas, Duran, Santiago Garcia, Elisondo, 0:46:46.760 --> 0:46:55.400 Rosalio Padia, Estrada, Bernabe, Lopez, Garcia, Ramon Parerees Gonzalez, Tomas 0:46:55.880 --> 0:47:04.760 Alvigna de Garcia, Salvador Sandoval, Ernajui, Lupe Ramerez, Lara Severo, Medina, 0:47:04.840 --> 0:47:12.560 Lara Elias, Trujill Massias, Jose Rodriguez, Massias, Tomas Padia, Marquez, 0:47:13.520 --> 0:47:25.000 Luis Lopez, Merdina, Manuel Calderon, Marino, Luis Queves, Miranda, Martin, Razo, Navarro, Ignacio, Perez, Navarro, 0:47:25.840 --> 0:47:34.920 Roman Choa Choa, Apollonio Ramirez, Placentia, Alberto Carlos, Regosa, Jui, 0:47:35.040 --> 0:47:45.000 Lupe Ernandez, Rodriguez, Maria Santana, Rodriguez, Juan Valenzuela Ruiz, Whenceeslao 0:47:45.200 --> 0:47:54.600 Flores Ruiz, Jose Valdivia Sanchez, Jesus Mesa, Santos, Baldomero, Marcus Torres, 0:47:54.600 --> 0:48:02.839 Francis c. Atkinson, Lillian k Atkinson, Marion h Ewing, and 0:48:02.920 --> 0:48:17.640 Frank E. Chaffin. Think about the song an Awful Lot. 0:48:18.280 --> 0:48:20.040 The first time I heard it was known a CD 0:48:20.200 --> 0:48:24.680 compilation of Spanish anarchist songs. The fundamental decency of giving 0:48:24.680 --> 0:48:27.960 a deceased name, treating them like people, not a human waste, 0:48:28.320 --> 0:48:31.600 seems so basic, and yet three quarters a century later, 0:48:31.719 --> 0:48:35.040 reporting hasn't got any better. A few times in my 0:48:35.120 --> 0:48:37.480 years at the border, I've searched for people and the 0:48:37.600 --> 0:48:40.279 remains of people whose names I don't know, just as 0:48:40.320 --> 0:48:42.920 some of my friends have erected little wooden crosses, some 0:48:43.000 --> 0:48:45.759 with names and some without, to people who he never 0:48:45.800 --> 0:48:48.839 got to meet but somehow still grieve. There are lots 0:48:48.880 --> 0:48:51.520 of people whose names and faces are Dodo who never 0:48:51.560 --> 0:48:54.040 made it to the USA. They didn't even get an 0:48:54.040 --> 0:48:57.919 anonymous story. The people who die for the American cream 0:48:58.040 --> 0:49:01.120 are totally ignored in the coverage of migration. The real 0:49:01.160 --> 0:49:05.240 cost of our border externalization, little children and loving parents 0:49:05.280 --> 0:49:08.080 who have to die so politicians via the Party can 0:49:08.120 --> 0:49:12.400 brag about secure borders are completely invisible to most people 0:49:12.400 --> 0:49:16.120 in this country. Seventy seven years less, one week after 0:49:16.239 --> 0:49:18.920 Times published its story which are raised People killed in 0:49:18.960 --> 0:49:22.480 the Los Gatos Canyon, it published a video. The video 0:49:22.520 --> 0:49:25.640 shows Primrose lying on the floor in agony. She climbed 0:49:25.680 --> 0:49:28.440 the wall on the ladder and then fell into the USA. 0:49:29.440 --> 0:49:33.680 On landing, she broke her leg. The story, just like 0:49:33.719 --> 0:49:37.520 that story in nineteen forty eight, doesn't name her or Kim. 0:49:37.800 --> 0:49:40.400 It refers to a group of migrants and calls Primros 0:49:40.480 --> 0:49:43.680 one woman too fair. The piece did interview other migrants, 0:49:44.160 --> 0:49:46.400 but as is often the case, and migrants from Africa 0:49:46.400 --> 0:49:49.319 get the worst treatment of all. The piece and the 0:49:49.400 --> 0:49:52.640 hundreds of other social media posted a video from other outlets. 0:49:53.080 --> 0:49:56.280 Don't tell readers about the persecution and torture Primrose faced 0:49:56.280 --> 0:49:59.160 at home about the fact she doesn't know where her 0:49:59.160 --> 0:50:02.160 father disappeared to and that her whole family is in hiding. 0:50:02.960 --> 0:50:05.520 It doesn't bother to mention that she and Kim walk 0:50:05.560 --> 0:50:08.160 for six months to get to the border, that they 0:50:08.160 --> 0:50:12.239 were kidnapped, robbed, and traumatized on the way doesn't even 0:50:12.239 --> 0:50:15.160 give their names. Unlike the people who died in Los 0:50:15.160 --> 0:50:17.680 Gatos Canyon, Primos is here to tell us how it 0:50:17.719 --> 0:50:20.759 feels to see her pain turned into pay views by 0:50:20.800 --> 0:50:23.120 outlets with huge global platforms. 0:50:23.920 --> 0:50:26.600 Yeah, that's you, to be honest. Even now, I feel 0:50:28.280 --> 0:50:31.560 it's embarrassing me because when I was in Texas, like 0:50:31.880 --> 0:50:33.920 if I made people they say, are you not the 0:50:34.000 --> 0:50:36.879 one will feel downe For me, it's like something else 0:50:36.920 --> 0:50:40.680 because I was not a appie for the person who 0:50:40.680 --> 0:50:44.319 put me in social media. Even even when I go 0:50:44.440 --> 0:50:47.600 to the comments, some of the comments were paid and 0:50:47.640 --> 0:50:52.319 the other people they don't even know what was really 0:50:52.320 --> 0:50:56.680 happened to me. I was running for my life. But 0:50:57.440 --> 0:51:02.279 people they just come into whatever they want. So that 0:51:02.440 --> 0:51:06.120 video even now I'm not even happy. Yes, I know 0:51:06.160 --> 0:51:08.680 people they make money with my video. Maybe sh you 0:51:08.800 --> 0:51:11.080 was supposed the person who posted me was supposib maybe 0:51:11.160 --> 0:51:15.520 to close my face or to do something. And a 0:51:15.640 --> 0:51:19.439 lot of people they even don't know where I am. 0:51:19.600 --> 0:51:25.439 But because of that video, it went viral even in 0:51:25.480 --> 0:51:29.000 my country. People that were sending messages. 0:51:30.400 --> 0:51:30.920 That's why. 0:51:31.239 --> 0:51:34.200 Uh, the other people they went to my mom and 0:51:34.320 --> 0:51:40.640 started torture DA because they they taught maybe I'm in country, 0:51:42.000 --> 0:51:45.839 but because of that video, they went to disturb my mom. 0:51:45.920 --> 0:51:48.040 She's not even where I grew up now in the 0:51:48.239 --> 0:51:52.880 or she just move. She's somewhere else now. So I 0:51:53.000 --> 0:51:55.440 don't even know who posted the video, and. 0:51:57.840 --> 0:51:58.719 I think I need to. 0:51:59.280 --> 0:52:04.359 I don't know what to get it, buddy, I'm very 0:52:04.480 --> 0:52:08.680 angry with the personal all posted the video. Maybe they 0:52:08.680 --> 0:52:11.080 should maybe asking me, or to find me, or to 0:52:11.239 --> 0:52:14.399 hide my face in the way Kim malistay my daughter 0:52:15.680 --> 0:52:17.640 when you ask you about the video, she cries to 0:52:17.760 --> 0:52:20.279 be honest, just. 0:52:20.320 --> 0:52:23.200 Like those people who died in the plane crash. Promos 0:52:23.239 --> 0:52:26.760 reserves better. I first saw the video of her falling 0:52:26.800 --> 0:52:29.719 on TikTok. I think I feel like it was shared 0:52:29.760 --> 0:52:31.480 by the Wall Street Journal, but I haven't been able 0:52:31.520 --> 0:52:34.720 to locate the post again. Where I saw a friend, 0:52:35.360 --> 0:52:37.759 someone else saw a way to make a bug. It's 0:52:37.800 --> 0:52:39.799 a kind of extractive reporting that I spent my whole 0:52:39.880 --> 0:52:42.759 career trying not to replicate. The Times and plenty of 0:52:42.760 --> 0:52:44.840 other outlets have what they see is high standards of 0:52:44.960 --> 0:52:48.600 journalistic objectivity. I don't think it will surprise anyone that 0:52:48.640 --> 0:52:51.399 I fall afoul of those, which is fine. I don't 0:52:51.440 --> 0:52:53.760 want to be trying to find the middle ground between 0:52:53.800 --> 0:52:56.080 someone running for her life and someone trying to make 0:52:56.120 --> 0:52:58.960 money from her misery. Nonetheless, we have to live in 0:52:59.040 --> 0:53:01.120 a world where the vast majority of people get their 0:53:01.160 --> 0:53:03.800 information from outlets who see migrants of stories and a 0:53:03.840 --> 0:53:07.279 political issue, not as people. We have to live with 0:53:07.360 --> 0:53:11.920 the consequences of that. We're seeing them all now every day. 0:53:13.200 --> 0:53:16.120 This isn't a story about the New York Times. A 0:53:16.160 --> 0:53:18.040 long time ago, I realized my career wasn't going in 0:53:18.120 --> 0:53:19.520 the direction that was going to put me on the 0:53:19.600 --> 0:53:23.240 mast head of those big newspapers, because I care about 0:53:23.280 --> 0:53:26.520 people like Primrose and Kimberly and not about big newspapers. 0:53:27.520 --> 0:53:30.359 This is a story about Primrose and Kimberley, so let's 0:53:30.400 --> 0:53:33.440 hear why they left Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe, if you don't know, 0:53:33.520 --> 0:53:35.840 has been ruled by the same party since nineteen eighty 0:53:36.480 --> 0:53:40.160 the ZENOPF. ZENOPF has been led for three decades with 0:53:40.320 --> 0:53:43.040 Robert mcgaby. It has been the only party to hold 0:53:43.040 --> 0:53:46.560 the presidency since independence. The office has only changed hands once, 0:53:46.760 --> 0:53:49.960 when mcgaby's former VP replaced him after mcgaby resigned and 0:53:50.080 --> 0:53:53.319 a threat of impeachment and a coup. The opposition has 0:53:53.360 --> 0:53:56.280 taken different forms over time, but never managed to dislodge 0:53:56.320 --> 0:53:59.600 one party rule. When it has got close, it has 0:53:59.680 --> 0:54:03.640 been with extreme violence. I think Premise knows only too well. 0:54:05.960 --> 0:54:10.600 It's not like we just it's a luxury to come 0:54:10.680 --> 0:54:13.360 to America for beggars. If I wanted to come to 0:54:13.400 --> 0:54:16.880 America for bigger I would maybe go and apply for 0:54:17.000 --> 0:54:17.480 the visa. 0:54:18.280 --> 0:54:19.920 But us is a. 0:54:21.760 --> 0:54:24.480 Youth is people who wants to change our country. They 0:54:24.560 --> 0:54:28.480 don't even make you to find a way to go 0:54:28.600 --> 0:54:32.400 to make a visa because the zimbabwe Zee a tough country, 0:54:32.520 --> 0:54:38.160 especial for us young people, young generation. They can even 0:54:38.600 --> 0:54:41.839 kill you in Simbabwe. We can't even protesting for our 0:54:42.000 --> 0:54:46.560 rights in Simbabwe because we skied for the government is 0:54:47.880 --> 0:54:51.720 running the country, which is NPF. We are really scared. 0:54:53.000 --> 0:54:55.080 I if people, a lot of people lose a lot 0:54:55.160 --> 0:55:02.279 of friends. Kidney killed me also in Zimbabwe, they even 0:55:03.040 --> 0:55:10.160 tortured me wanting to kill me. So that's why even 0:55:10.200 --> 0:55:15.279 I don't even know it's Kimbalda's father since twenty seven, 0:55:15.360 --> 0:55:17.239 I don't even know where it is. Maybe it's dead 0:55:17.360 --> 0:55:19.319 or it's not even dead. I don't even know where 0:55:19.520 --> 0:55:23.440 is because they also run away. Even now as I'm 0:55:23.440 --> 0:55:26.279 speaking right now, I'm stressed, like I don't even know 0:55:26.320 --> 0:55:29.839 where it's my father, Yeah, I don't even know where 0:55:29.840 --> 0:55:34.640 he is. Also, it just so our governments, our Zimbabwe, 0:55:35.560 --> 0:55:40.160 it's a relative for us. Yeah, they don't give us 0:55:40.520 --> 0:55:44.560 time or they don't give us as a young generation. 0:55:44.719 --> 0:55:50.280 They think themselves and then they are they are families 0:55:50.400 --> 0:55:52.719 and they econ on me. There's no even if you 0:55:52.840 --> 0:55:56.239 go to school, there's no jobs. There's a lot of 0:55:56.360 --> 0:56:04.480 graduates people staying home. They a vendas podcas, no jobs. 0:56:04.600 --> 0:56:04.960 Nothing. 0:56:06.000 --> 0:56:08.640 If you want to stay in the ends for your rights, 0:56:09.840 --> 0:56:13.840 they tortured you, killed you disappear. There's a lot of 0:56:13.960 --> 0:56:19.200 people will disappear in Szimbabwe just before see your needs 0:56:19.520 --> 0:56:20.080 to change. 0:56:22.280 --> 0:56:27.360 Under Mugabe, Zimbabwe experience rapid economic decline and hyperinflation at 0:56:27.440 --> 0:56:30.440 various times. Mugaby has blamed his own form of colonial powers, 0:56:30.719 --> 0:56:34.719 which is reasonable and a quote gay mafia, which is 0:56:34.760 --> 0:56:36.360 what you get when you have a single manachar to 0:56:36.400 --> 0:56:38.840 your state, ruling by whim from the moment of liberation 0:56:38.960 --> 0:56:41.840 until just two years before his death from rus Like 0:56:41.920 --> 0:56:43.960 many in her country, like many people from all over 0:56:44.040 --> 0:56:47.360 the world, wanted a better future. It was something she 0:56:47.520 --> 0:56:50.759 and her family had advocated for. Having seen people she 0:56:50.880 --> 0:56:54.200 loved disappear, never knowing if they were alive or dead, 0:56:55.160 --> 0:56:58.440 never even getting the closure of a funeral, she decided 0:56:58.480 --> 0:57:01.520 she couldn't risk leaving Kimberly alone, and so she took 0:57:01.560 --> 0:57:05.320 her daughter and fled it. Fled to South Africa, but 0:57:05.520 --> 0:57:06.600 violence followed them there. 0:57:07.560 --> 0:57:12.040 Especially in South Africa. People are killed with Sonofobia. People 0:57:12.120 --> 0:57:15.120 are killed, you know, so it's not also even safe 0:57:15.239 --> 0:57:18.000 for us to stay in South Africa. 0:57:18.160 --> 0:57:23.160 That's why, especially in me. To be honest, the Jena 0:57:23.320 --> 0:57:24.280 was not even planned. 0:57:25.240 --> 0:57:29.280 I was just asking people and when I reached brass people, 0:57:29.320 --> 0:57:31.520 they were just talking, let's godless, collless. But I was 0:57:31.560 --> 0:57:36.880 also following those people do I get here? So it's 0:57:37.000 --> 0:57:40.240 not like we came here for luxury or for what. 0:57:42.440 --> 0:57:42.680 For me. 0:57:42.800 --> 0:57:44.880 I just came here for my life. I just ran 0:57:44.960 --> 0:57:46.960 for for my life. 0:57:47.000 --> 0:57:50.480 I just need my life in my daughter's life, because 0:57:50.560 --> 0:57:53.520 if I died today, I don't know if anybody can 0:57:53.640 --> 0:57:58.760 look after my daughter, especially when in my country, because 0:57:58.840 --> 0:57:59.920 things are tough for my mom. 0:58:00.040 --> 0:58:03.040 Of course, my father just disappeared. 0:58:04.480 --> 0:58:09.960 What people can't easily travel around the world. Concept like xenophobia, bigotry, sexism, homophobia. 0:58:10.120 --> 0:58:13.080 They're not just American issues. They're global issues. And that's 0:58:13.120 --> 0:58:15.400 why we say nobody's free until everybody's free. 0:58:16.560 --> 0:58:17.720 We just grew up in a. 0:58:20.320 --> 0:58:25.240 Poor family. So but it's tough to be honest. It's 0:58:25.280 --> 0:58:26.360 a relative. 0:58:27.520 --> 0:58:27.760 For me. 0:58:27.840 --> 0:58:32.439 I'm not even one hundred percent, Okay, I'm still lots 0:58:32.520 --> 0:58:41.080 of memories trace Yeah, and I remember one of my friends, 0:58:42.560 --> 0:58:47.480 her name was Memory. She died also, we were together, 0:58:47.600 --> 0:58:50.760 died in the Zimbabwe when they kidnaped us for five days. 0:58:52.760 --> 0:58:59.160 So she just died. Listen to us twenty twenty twenty TWENTYA. 0:59:00.280 --> 0:59:01.240 She just died. 0:59:03.440 --> 0:59:06.640 Because we were fighting for our future. 0:59:07.960 --> 0:59:09.520 Yeah, but. 0:59:13.040 --> 0:59:13.560 It's tough. 0:59:14.800 --> 0:59:19.280 Yeah, he's me talking to Primrose on that river bank 0:59:19.320 --> 0:59:21.760 about but why she left South Africa. 0:59:22.320 --> 0:59:25.200 I'm just flying. No, it's only me and my daughter. 0:59:25.680 --> 0:59:25.880 Yeah. 0:59:26.560 --> 0:59:28.320 Was it hard to see a future for her there? 0:59:28.800 --> 0:59:29.720 It's very hard. 0:59:32.800 --> 0:59:34.320 Explain the situation there. 0:59:36.360 --> 0:59:36.440 The. 0:59:38.240 --> 0:59:44.400 Situation where in where the situation for me, it was tough. 0:59:45.000 --> 0:59:48.360 I just ran away to South Africa. In South Africa 0:59:48.520 --> 0:59:55.480 was not safe. Solophobia and uh, they almost secure me 0:59:55.880 --> 1:00:01.000 and my boyfriend and even my my big father was 1:00:01.200 --> 1:00:10.240 abusive too much. Because of the politics. I'm opposition party, 1:00:10.320 --> 1:00:15.120 So it was now even in South Africa, I was 1:00:15.240 --> 1:00:17.960 not safe at all. It was those people. They were 1:00:18.040 --> 1:00:21.720 like following me and my daughter. So I spent three 1:00:21.800 --> 1:00:24.720 months on the road coming here. I leave South Africa, 1:00:24.720 --> 1:00:29.080 I think fourth of July till now I'm in Panama. 1:00:29.520 --> 1:00:30.320 I'm still walking. 1:00:31.040 --> 1:00:45.280 Yes, that was September. She finally entered the USA in January, 1:00:45.920 --> 1:00:48.200 crossing into a very different country than the one she'd 1:00:48.240 --> 1:00:53.000 set out for. Her story is unique. Every migrant story is, 1:00:53.120 --> 1:00:56.400 but it's not unusual. He spent as much time talking 1:00:56.400 --> 1:00:58.720 to migrant society. You will learn a lot about the 1:00:58.760 --> 1:01:02.360 hardships regular people face all over the world. You'll also 1:01:02.440 --> 1:01:05.920 learn about the dreams people have and how little they 1:01:06.000 --> 1:01:09.240 really differ. Let's take, for example, the protest we recently 1:01:09.280 --> 1:01:11.880 saw in Nepal. Those didn't come as a huge shock 1:01:11.920 --> 1:01:15.720 because I met dozens of Nepalese political opposition members. Here's 1:01:15.760 --> 1:01:17.400 when I spoke to us. We sheltered in the porch 1:01:17.440 --> 1:01:20.840 of nmber our house in Bahjiqito in a rainstorm last September. 1:01:21.720 --> 1:01:24.760 The little room was filled with sleeping pads and tired bodies. 1:01:25.360 --> 1:01:26.800 I spent a lot of time there sitting on the 1:01:26.840 --> 1:01:29.960 floor talking to people. A new story is one of 1:01:30.080 --> 1:01:32.400 many I heard just in that one room, from all 1:01:32.480 --> 1:01:33.040 over the world. 1:01:34.000 --> 1:01:36.520 Yeah, because it's not safe in my country. That's why 1:01:36.600 --> 1:01:38.480 I want to go to the States, because there is 1:01:38.600 --> 1:01:39.400 right and freedom. 1:01:40.280 --> 1:01:42.800 Yeah, what makes it not safe in your country? 1:01:43.440 --> 1:01:43.640 Yeah? 1:01:44.200 --> 1:01:47.560 There are many political reasons. Yeah, and I am from 1:01:47.640 --> 1:01:52.919 a different political like Congress. Okay, I'm from Congress. That's 1:01:52.960 --> 1:01:56.880 a small member, not a big plans to man, but 1:01:57.640 --> 1:02:02.720 that Opposit party, you know, yeah, they won, they won the. 1:02:04.200 --> 1:02:04.760 Constitution. 1:02:04.960 --> 1:02:09.560 So yeah, so they think you uh yeah, Okay, if 1:02:09.640 --> 1:02:11.840 you wanting how someone come from the mountains in Nepal 1:02:11.920 --> 1:02:14.640 to a small village in the Panamanian jungle and to 1:02:14.720 --> 1:02:18.720 be briefly sharing a tiny room with people from Venezuela, Cameroon, China, 1:02:18.760 --> 1:02:21.160 and Bolivia, all seeking the same thing. 1:02:21.960 --> 1:02:27.240 His hell, I took a plan from Nepal to Dubai, 1:02:27.800 --> 1:02:29.520 he said, there two months, okay. 1:02:29.920 --> 1:02:34.040 Then after that I went to Qatar. 1:02:35.120 --> 1:02:35.360 Yeah. 1:02:35.520 --> 1:02:40.400 From Qatar, I went to Brazil. I stayed in Refusiician 1:02:40.520 --> 1:02:43.520 for at least two weeks, yeah. 1:02:43.880 --> 1:02:44.080 Yeah. 1:02:44.280 --> 1:02:48.000 Then after that I came out from Brazil, took a bus, 1:02:49.080 --> 1:02:53.560 then traveled for two much a long time, maybe twenty 1:02:53.600 --> 1:02:55.800 four hours or twenty five hours. 1:02:56.240 --> 1:02:56.520 Wow. 1:02:57.240 --> 1:02:57.320 Ye. 1:02:57.920 --> 1:03:02.640 Then I went to I caught some friends. They took 1:03:02.720 --> 1:03:08.160 me to Bolivia. We need to cross through jungle, but 1:03:08.320 --> 1:03:11.040 it was small, not a long way. 1:03:11.320 --> 1:03:12.880 Yeah, it was good. 1:03:13.560 --> 1:03:18.000 And after Bolivia I took the ride to bus. I 1:03:18.160 --> 1:03:22.000 took at least maybe forty eight hours in a bus. 1:03:22.680 --> 1:03:22.880 Yeah. 1:03:23.160 --> 1:03:23.400 Wow. 1:03:23.560 --> 1:03:26.280 Man. Then I went to the border of Peru and 1:03:26.440 --> 1:03:30.520 there was some boat to take us across, and I 1:03:30.880 --> 1:03:35.160 went across to Peru, stayed in a hotel that night. 1:03:35.640 --> 1:03:38.400 Then after that it came out and again wrote the 1:03:38.480 --> 1:03:44.560 bus for twenty six hours to Lima. Then after Lima 1:03:45.120 --> 1:03:49.880 again twenty six hours to Tulcan. Then after Tulcan, I 1:03:50.000 --> 1:03:54.200 got a taxi and that taxi was to cross the 1:03:54.280 --> 1:03:57.600 border to equad Okay, and so I went to Effader 1:03:57.680 --> 1:03:59.800 in that taxi and they came Cousino. 1:04:00.080 --> 1:04:03.200 Well yeah, we stayed for two to. 1:04:03.400 --> 1:04:08.200 Three hours in the hotel. Then at night again traveling wow. 1:04:08.760 --> 1:04:14.720 Then again traveled to Colombia. After Colombia, rode another bus 1:04:15.640 --> 1:04:23.840 and rode to Colombia and Panama borders to Nicoli. Nicoli 1:04:24.440 --> 1:04:28.080 to Nicoli and we stayed maybe one week in Nicoli. 1:04:28.640 --> 1:04:34.080 After that, I took a board to or from Kapurana. 1:04:35.000 --> 1:04:35.120 Uh. 1:04:35.360 --> 1:04:38.600 There was some bikes. The pike took us to a 1:04:39.080 --> 1:04:40.800 camp at the border. 1:04:41.600 --> 1:04:41.960 Oow. 1:04:43.160 --> 1:04:46.000 At the camp, I raised nearly at six pm. 1:04:46.840 --> 1:04:51.960 Then after some people came there and they were responsible 1:04:52.040 --> 1:04:54.280 to cross the border to Panama. 1:04:55.080 --> 1:04:59.920 Then we walked to at nine pm. We walked through May. 1:05:02.000 --> 1:05:04.200 We walked to till here forty four hours. 1:05:05.160 --> 1:05:05.440 Wow. 1:05:06.120 --> 1:05:06.360 Yeah. 1:05:06.840 --> 1:05:08.280 I asked a Nuke what he had to say to 1:05:08.320 --> 1:05:11.480 people in America, because he had excellent English and I 1:05:11.600 --> 1:05:14.720 have this platform to share. He was more than aware 1:05:14.720 --> 1:05:16.840 of the US just course her own migrants, and he 1:05:16.880 --> 1:05:18.400 said he'd been watching videos about it. 1:05:19.400 --> 1:05:23.760 Well, that's everyone is human being. Yeah, yeah, because we 1:05:23.920 --> 1:05:26.880 have some problems, so we need to live our country right. 1:05:27.320 --> 1:05:28.200 Yeah, we need to be. 1:05:29.680 --> 1:05:32.200 Kind to each other. Yeah, we need to be kind. Yeah. 1:05:33.920 --> 1:05:36.400 I haven't heard from Minuke since then. I have no 1:05:36.520 --> 1:05:38.720 idea where he and his friends are or how the 1:05:38.840 --> 1:05:42.680 journey across three continents ended. Like so many other migrants, 1:05:43.400 --> 1:05:46.240 he disappeared for me in the massive humanity heading north. 1:05:47.600 --> 1:05:49.560 I still think about all the people I haven't heard from. 1:05:50.360 --> 1:05:52.440 Sometimes I'll see people who look like them and I'll 1:05:52.440 --> 1:05:55.360 get excited. But if they're in the USA now, they're 1:05:55.360 --> 1:05:58.280 probably afraid of going out. Much became all this way, 1:05:58.320 --> 1:06:01.240 they rest their lives, They saw people die, and now 1:06:01.280 --> 1:06:04.120 once again the hiding from men in masks with guns. 1:06:05.240 --> 1:06:09.000 His Rose, young woman from Bolivia. Think about Rose a lot. 1:06:09.720 --> 1:06:12.400 She was a young mum traveling alone, trying to find 1:06:12.400 --> 1:06:14.320 a better future for her family and risking her life 1:06:14.360 --> 1:06:18.160 in the process. She seemed young and happy most of 1:06:18.240 --> 1:06:20.600 the time, but she had a sort of tiredness in 1:06:20.640 --> 1:06:23.000 her eyes that really stayed with me after several conversations 1:06:23.040 --> 1:06:25.600 we had in Baja Jigito. I don't really know why. 1:06:25.720 --> 1:06:28.880 It just seemed so sad that she was away from 1:06:28.920 --> 1:06:32.400 her kids, and someone who so obviously was predisposed to 1:06:32.480 --> 1:06:35.200 joy looked so tired and sad all on her own there. 1:06:35.960 --> 1:06:37.880 It felt like her only chance had a better future. 1:06:38.760 --> 1:06:40.640 She was very open about how hard it all was. 1:06:41.320 --> 1:06:44.200 I remember one day I didn't feel like recording, just 1:06:44.240 --> 1:06:46.240 sitting on the side of the raised walkway in Bajra 1:06:46.320 --> 1:06:48.920 Juqito with her feet in the hot, wet mud, watching 1:06:48.960 --> 1:06:51.360 people walk by talking with her like I talked with 1:06:51.440 --> 1:06:54.320 any other friend about our homes and our families and 1:06:55.040 --> 1:06:57.080 the election that was two months away. At that point, 1:06:58.080 --> 1:06:59.920 she was hanging out with a group of Venezuelans in 1:07:00.560 --> 1:07:02.360 but they must have been separated because they've asked me 1:07:02.360 --> 1:07:05.480 about her since, just like so many other people, I 1:07:05.520 --> 1:07:08.160 have no idea where she is. It seems so sad 1:07:08.200 --> 1:07:09.600 to me that we've made a word where a woman 1:07:09.640 --> 1:07:12.200 who wants the future for kids has to risk her life, 1:07:12.920 --> 1:07:15.600 maybe lose it for a liner, just to come here 1:07:15.640 --> 1:07:18.840 and ask for help and then still be denied, and 1:07:18.920 --> 1:07:21.840 then if she gets here, to be chased, harried and harassed. 1:07:26.120 --> 1:07:30.240 Yes, the situation there in Bolivia right now, we're practically 1:07:31.000 --> 1:07:34.520 economically well, we're in very bad shape. It's kind of 1:07:34.600 --> 1:07:38.080 like Venezuela. What motivates me to travel is more than 1:07:38.120 --> 1:07:43.439 anything work because there you can't work, you can't earn enough, 1:07:43.960 --> 1:07:47.160 you know, you have to work a lot, but they 1:07:47.240 --> 1:07:49.880 pay you very little, you know, so there's a lot 1:07:49.920 --> 1:07:53.240 of a lot of poverty. So that's what motivates me 1:07:53.320 --> 1:07:57.120 to keep going to work in another country, to migrate, 1:07:57.960 --> 1:08:01.360 because I also have a family, they have children. So 1:08:01.480 --> 1:08:04.760 that's what motivates me to go to another country to work. 1:08:05.520 --> 1:08:09.080 It's the future for them, yes, a better future for them, 1:08:10.000 --> 1:08:10.680 for my children. 1:08:13.080 --> 1:08:15.240 I asked her to share her journey. How have been 1:08:15.400 --> 1:08:18.120 just to get this little wet village that welcomes people 1:08:18.120 --> 1:08:19.080 in the middle of the jungle. 1:08:23.280 --> 1:08:28.519 We left Friday morning to go to the jungle. Right, Well, 1:08:28.560 --> 1:08:32.920 let me explain honestly, it's not easy. It's very hard 1:08:33.360 --> 1:08:35.880 because I've seen quite a few people. There are many 1:08:35.920 --> 1:08:40.559 pregnant women, there are women with children. There are elderly people, 1:08:40.680 --> 1:08:44.080 there are adults. There are people who come with crutches. 1:08:45.280 --> 1:08:47.519 There are people who break bones if they're feet fall 1:08:47.560 --> 1:08:52.960 off the edge. There are people who faint. There are 1:08:53.240 --> 1:08:57.679 quite a lot of people and have difficult situations because 1:08:57.680 --> 1:08:59.599 you have to climb a hill which takes at least 1:08:59.640 --> 1:09:04.960 day out. You have to climb. You have to carry 1:09:04.960 --> 1:09:09.400 your backpack, your food, your clothes, your supplies, everything you 1:09:09.479 --> 1:09:13.720 need for the journey, your water. So it's very hard, 1:09:14.880 --> 1:09:21.519 very hard. And you go up up and you arrive 1:09:21.600 --> 1:09:25.040 at what is the border of Panama with Columbia, which 1:09:25.120 --> 1:09:29.080 is called the Flags. You get there and from there 1:09:29.280 --> 1:09:33.240 you have to go down down, down. That takes at 1:09:33.320 --> 1:09:36.720 least another eight hours. You have to go down all day. 1:09:38.360 --> 1:09:42.280 On Friday, it took us all day. We had to 1:09:42.360 --> 1:09:45.000 sleep on the side on the edge of a river bank. 1:09:45.280 --> 1:09:45.760 More or less. 1:09:47.320 --> 1:09:49.519 There were about two hundred of us, if I'm not mistaken, 1:09:50.240 --> 1:09:54.559 we are about two hundred people, one hundred and fifty 1:09:55.280 --> 1:10:00.240 two hundred people traveling and sleeping there. We camped two 1:10:00.320 --> 1:10:05.439 hundred of us. Yes, there are children. There are babies 1:10:06.120 --> 1:10:09.120 two months old, one month old, three months old. 1:10:09.080 --> 1:10:09.800 One year old. 1:10:10.880 --> 1:10:14.320 So there are children, and they are really the ones 1:10:14.320 --> 1:10:17.960 who suffer the most on this journey. Yes, So that 1:10:18.120 --> 1:10:22.000 night we slept. The next day, which would be Saturday, 1:10:22.600 --> 1:10:25.040 we came back again at six in the morning. We 1:10:25.120 --> 1:10:28.400 set off walking all day. We had to climb hills. 1:10:29.160 --> 1:10:31.280 We had to cross rivers that come up to your shoulders, 1:10:31.360 --> 1:10:34.920 up to your neck. They really come up. There are 1:10:34.960 --> 1:10:40.160 quite a few rivers. There's mud, there are mountains. There 1:10:40.200 --> 1:10:43.360 are those rocks that you slip on and die. There 1:10:43.400 --> 1:10:45.800 are mountains that you have to climb. Of course, if 1:10:45.840 --> 1:10:47.439 you don't want to go meet God, you have to 1:10:47.520 --> 1:10:52.960 climb mountains that are slippery with stones rocks, and you 1:10:53.080 --> 1:10:59.240 keep going like that. All day downriver, walking walking walking. 1:11:01.240 --> 1:11:04.679 There are people who got left behind, There are people 1:11:04.720 --> 1:11:08.760 who came with children. They get stuck, they faint right. 1:11:09.880 --> 1:11:12.439 It's very hard, it's very difficult. 1:11:13.400 --> 1:11:16.280 And I know that all of us who immigrated here 1:11:16.360 --> 1:11:19.240 are doing the same thing. We are not bad people. 1:11:20.160 --> 1:11:22.519 We are good people. We do it for a purpose 1:11:23.479 --> 1:11:28.080 which is our family, right, our children. We need a 1:11:28.120 --> 1:11:31.439 good economy to support our family, our children. 1:11:35.040 --> 1:11:41.800 But I asked rays if there was a dream that 1:11:41.920 --> 1:11:42.599 kept her going. 1:11:44.800 --> 1:11:48.080 Yes, I have a dream to go there because just 1:11:48.160 --> 1:11:51.439 like everyone else, like every person, I need to get 1:11:51.439 --> 1:11:55.040 ahead financially to provide for my children, to get ahead. 1:11:55.640 --> 1:11:58.840 So my dream has always been to be there. You know, 1:11:59.360 --> 1:12:02.479 I set that all for myself before, but I didn't 1:12:02.520 --> 1:12:05.400 think it would be like this, so difficult. And once 1:12:05.439 --> 1:12:08.040 you're in there, well there's nothing you can do but 1:12:08.200 --> 1:12:11.080 get out, move forward, get out of there, because you 1:12:11.200 --> 1:12:13.400 can't go back, you can't retreat. 1:12:14.040 --> 1:12:14.800 You have to get out. 1:12:15.960 --> 1:12:18.960 So my dream is that to provide for my children. 1:12:20.080 --> 1:12:23.160 I have two sons waiting for me, I have my 1:12:23.240 --> 1:12:28.320 family and my dad and my brothers. So for that 1:12:28.479 --> 1:12:32.400 reason we set off to go there. We are still 1:12:32.520 --> 1:12:32.960 going there. 1:12:35.320 --> 1:12:38.960 The American dream is such a nebulous concept. Often it's 1:12:39.080 --> 1:12:41.439 used as a byword for exceptionalism and the idea that 1:12:41.479 --> 1:12:44.200 the US offers a true meritocracy. You were, hard working 1:12:44.320 --> 1:12:48.040 people can thrive in the marketplace of ideas that isn't true. 1:12:48.960 --> 1:12:51.280 But dreams don't have to be true, not they have 1:12:51.360 --> 1:12:54.360 to be that far fetched. Most people come into America, no, 1:12:54.479 --> 1:12:57.160 that work hard in the fields, cleaning homes. So maybe 1:12:57.200 --> 1:12:59.920 as a lion cook the hands and knees and back 1:13:00.200 --> 1:13:02.760 will do the labor that allows for privileged Americans to 1:13:02.800 --> 1:13:05.439 still believe in their version of the American dream, the 1:13:05.520 --> 1:13:09.080 one where millionaires become billionaires. But the chance to work 1:13:09.160 --> 1:13:12.519 and be paid to speak, and not fear consequences, to 1:13:12.640 --> 1:13:14.680 be able to feed your kids enough that they grow 1:13:14.760 --> 1:13:18.840 up healthy and strong. Those are dreams too. They're dreams 1:13:18.880 --> 1:13:21.680 that people are willing to risk their lives for, and 1:13:21.840 --> 1:13:24.240 dreams that I've seen them chase up and down mountains 1:13:24.280 --> 1:13:26.400 in the jungle and in the freezing cold and the 1:13:26.439 --> 1:13:29.920 baking heats of the deserts and mountains of California. But 1:13:30.080 --> 1:13:32.280 now even those who achieve their humble dreams are in 1:13:32.360 --> 1:13:34.559 danger of losing them and tomorrow, I want to talk 1:13:34.720 --> 1:13:37.080 about the end of the American Dream and the beginning 1:13:37.160 --> 1:13:39.600 of an American nightmare for millions and migrants who are 1:13:39.640 --> 1:13:43.120 already here. Every time I hear the various versions that 1:13:43.200 --> 1:13:45.519 Woody Guthrie song, I think about the friends I made 1:13:45.560 --> 1:13:47.800 the jungle, who, as a song says, maybe went to 1:13:47.880 --> 1:13:51.080 heaven without any names. So before I go, I want 1:13:51.080 --> 1:13:53.160 to share the whole Miami's American Dream one more time, 1:13:53.680 --> 1:13:55.600 because I think it's important not to forget what the 1:13:55.920 --> 1:13:58.400 entire force of the most powerful state in the world 1:13:58.960 --> 1:14:00.559 has dedicated itself to destroy. 1:14:02.880 --> 1:14:06.479 Why am I meaning me, me me? 1:14:10.720 --> 1:14:13.160 It could be an a par of thousand euros. 1:14:13.120 --> 1:14:17.720 A Caroline, Animia. 1:14:17.800 --> 1:15:04.320 Acidia, Amidia h for Rose, Miami and Primrose and the 1:15:04.400 --> 1:15:06.840 dozens of other migrants I met in the jungle. The 1:15:06.920 --> 1:15:09.679 goal was to get here. Some of them had friends 1:15:09.720 --> 1:15:12.640 they wanted to stay with, but many did not. They 1:15:12.720 --> 1:15:15.479 just wanted a chance, a chance to work and be 1:15:15.560 --> 1:15:17.640 paid a fair wage, a chance for their kids to 1:15:17.680 --> 1:15:20.200 have a dream and a future, a chance to sleep 1:15:20.280 --> 1:15:23.639 safely at night. Once they got across that line, over 1:15:23.720 --> 1:15:26.000 that wall, or across that river, they wanted to make 1:15:26.040 --> 1:15:28.160 their case for a silent to ask for help and 1:15:28.240 --> 1:15:30.720 someone to keep them safe, to give them an opportunity 1:15:30.760 --> 1:15:33.960 to build their lives again. But even for the very 1:15:34.000 --> 1:15:37.080 few who made it, the risks weren't over. Within hours 1:15:37.120 --> 1:15:40.120 of taking office, Trump had begun signing executive orders that 1:15:40.160 --> 1:15:41.760 would make life for migrants on the way to the 1:15:41.880 --> 1:15:46.280 USA and those already here even more difficult. To the 1:15:46.360 --> 1:15:48.479 cheers of the crowd, he signed in order that kept 1:15:48.520 --> 1:15:51.360 TikTok online, pardon the people who stormed the Capitol on 1:15:51.439 --> 1:15:54.599 January sixth, twenty twenty one, and attempted to rescind birthright 1:15:54.680 --> 1:15:58.479 citizenship from the children of migrants. He ended steviep Won 1:15:58.680 --> 1:16:01.320 and with his sharpie of the building of mole walls 1:16:01.560 --> 1:16:03.760 and the resulting death of more people who came here 1:16:03.840 --> 1:16:07.479 to ask for help. Within days of Trump taking office, 1:16:07.920 --> 1:16:12.240 federal agents from ICE, the DEA, the FBI, and other 1:16:12.320 --> 1:16:15.360 agencies had begun a campaign if made for social media raids. 1:16:16.160 --> 1:16:18.600 In Colorado, they raided apartment buildings which had played a 1:16:18.640 --> 1:16:21.599 load bearing role in right wing conspiracies about tender ragwa 1:16:21.680 --> 1:16:24.800 months before. At universities, they grabbed young men and women 1:16:24.880 --> 1:16:28.360 off campus for the crime for opposing genocide. People entering 1:16:28.400 --> 1:16:30.720 the country were stopped and had the device's searched, not 1:16:30.880 --> 1:16:33.320 just for evidence of crime, but also for evidence of 1:16:33.400 --> 1:16:36.840 mocking the president or the Vice president. Trump added various 1:16:36.920 --> 1:16:40.240 organized crime groups the list of foreign terrorist organizations and 1:16:40.320 --> 1:16:43.960 attempted to totally ban asylum, including for the people fleeing 1:16:44.040 --> 1:16:47.479 those very organizations. People who had waited months for an 1:16:47.479 --> 1:16:50.800 appointment on CBP one now had their appointment canceled. They 1:16:50.840 --> 1:16:53.880 were left totally without hope, at risk, and with nowhere 1:16:53.880 --> 1:16:57.280 to go for help. Trump used to border Emergency declaration 1:16:57.400 --> 1:17:00.519 to justify his proclamation and quickly followed up with more 1:17:00.560 --> 1:17:03.439 military deployments, wall construction, and a huge increase in the 1:17:03.479 --> 1:17:07.040 funding for state surveillance. People still cross, but their numbers 1:17:07.080 --> 1:17:09.679 decreased if many of them were quickly deported back to Mexico. 1:17:10.560 --> 1:17:13.920 Here's Kirsten is it law promos his lawyer explaining the 1:17:14.000 --> 1:17:14.920 new system. 1:17:15.320 --> 1:17:20.200 So there are no new asylum cases. In other words, 1:17:20.280 --> 1:17:25.240 people who cross at the southern border are now detained, 1:17:25.640 --> 1:17:29.519 only to be removed immediately basically or as soon as possible, 1:17:30.280 --> 1:17:34.040 under what's called two twelve F authority. It's under the 1:17:34.240 --> 1:17:39.439 Immigration and Nationality Act. Trump has used this authority, which 1:17:39.520 --> 1:17:43.679 basically broadly says that if the President finds a certain 1:17:43.720 --> 1:17:47.320 class of immigrants or the entry of immigrants would be 1:17:47.320 --> 1:17:50.160 detrimental to the interests of the United States, they may, 1:17:50.240 --> 1:17:54.240 by proclamation, you know, suspend all entry have said immigrants. 1:17:54.640 --> 1:17:57.760 So whereas people used to get credible. 1:17:57.360 --> 1:18:01.120 Fear interviews or were parolled into the United States to 1:18:01.240 --> 1:18:04.120 be allowed to fight an asylum case, none of that 1:18:04.320 --> 1:18:08.040 is happening anymore. And people are, if anything, only screened 1:18:08.120 --> 1:18:12.120 for what's called Convention against Torture screenings to just determine, like, hey, 1:18:12.160 --> 1:18:14.880 are they going to be tortured by their government or 1:18:14.920 --> 1:18:17.200 with the acquiescence of their government if they returned to 1:18:17.240 --> 1:18:20.320 their home country. But even then they are not allowed 1:18:20.360 --> 1:18:22.519 to remain in the United States or fight any relief 1:18:22.560 --> 1:18:24.320 in the United States. That just means that they will 1:18:24.320 --> 1:18:25.960 be deported to a third country. 1:18:26.720 --> 1:18:29.760 For people inside the USA, the situation wasn't much better. 1:18:30.320 --> 1:18:32.160 First as a trickle and then as a torrent, we 1:18:32.240 --> 1:18:35.040 started to see videos of masked, unidentified men jumping out 1:18:35.080 --> 1:18:38.320 of unmarked vehicles to grab people, many of whom were migrants, 1:18:38.560 --> 1:18:41.479 and detain them. In most cases, these were federal agents 1:18:41.520 --> 1:18:44.720 from ICE and other federal agencies like the FBI, the ATF, 1:18:44.960 --> 1:18:47.719 and the DEA, whose offices were detailed to support ICE. 1:18:48.439 --> 1:18:51.479 An increasing number of cases, they were people imitating ICE 1:18:52.280 --> 1:18:55.960 for migrants, many of whom had fled totalitarian regimes where 1:18:56.000 --> 1:18:59.040 people were disappeared by the state, they were reminder of 1:18:59.080 --> 1:19:01.679 what they'd run away from, the place they had come 1:19:01.760 --> 1:19:03.640 to be safe, started to feel like the place they 1:19:03.680 --> 1:19:07.679 had to leave because it wasn't safe. Primrose case, things 1:19:07.720 --> 1:19:10.080 were a bit different. When Kifton filed a motion to 1:19:10.120 --> 1:19:13.560 appear remotely, she got an extremely unusual response. 1:19:13.680 --> 1:19:16.479 In ruling on my WebEx motion, I was emailed the 1:19:16.640 --> 1:19:20.040 order of the judge along with a notice that primos 1:19:20.040 --> 1:19:21.320 should self deport. 1:19:22.280 --> 1:19:23.240 So judges are. 1:19:23.240 --> 1:19:27.960 Sending out these notices with routine other orders in cases 1:19:28.000 --> 1:19:32.479 where the immigrant has counsel is fighting their case. 1:19:33.680 --> 1:19:35.920 It's obvious they're fighting their case. 1:19:36.320 --> 1:19:38.519 Yeah, So it's one of the things where you just 1:19:38.600 --> 1:19:41.840 feel very strongly this administration's influence. 1:19:42.360 --> 1:19:44.360 Are they obliged to do that or is that a 1:19:44.479 --> 1:19:46.200 choice that the judge is made. No, not at all. 1:19:46.280 --> 1:19:48.800 It's it's okay, not at all, and in fact it's 1:19:48.840 --> 1:19:52.479 completely inappropriate. The immigration bar is taking a different approach 1:19:52.560 --> 1:19:56.640 to it. Some are filing motions to recuse, telling the judges, hey, 1:19:56.680 --> 1:19:59.439 you need to recuse yourself. You're you're a non neutral judge. 1:19:59.479 --> 1:20:00.600 To send this up out in the middle of the 1:20:00.680 --> 1:20:03.439 case is absurd. It's a due process violation. They're entitled 1:20:03.479 --> 1:20:04.360 to a neutral judge. 1:20:05.360 --> 1:20:07.439 Think just one of the many areas where things are 1:20:07.479 --> 1:20:10.400 not as they have been. The Trump administration has flouted 1:20:10.479 --> 1:20:13.760 rules and even court orders, sent migrants to hoard Salvador's 1:20:13.800 --> 1:20:16.960 megaprisons that god a place where torture is routine and 1:20:17.000 --> 1:20:19.599 where few people have ever left. They attempted to bring 1:20:19.680 --> 1:20:23.280 criminal charges against migrants to justify their actions, and eventually 1:20:23.400 --> 1:20:25.799 ended up in a prisoner change with the Maduro regime. 1:20:26.360 --> 1:20:28.960 At the same time, my daughter's government began offering quote 1:20:29.040 --> 1:20:33.280 unquote humanitarian flights to Venezuelans and Mexico, and some even 1:20:33.320 --> 1:20:36.759 took to navigating the Daian Gap southwards to return to Columbia, 1:20:37.000 --> 1:20:38.920 where they thought they might have some chance at a 1:20:39.000 --> 1:20:43.120 decent life in the USA, a country with more guns 1:20:43.120 --> 1:20:45.960 than people. Everyone seemed to be holding their breath and 1:20:46.040 --> 1:20:48.920 worrying that we'd seen an increase in lethal violence. But 1:20:49.040 --> 1:20:52.720 after a few weeks, thankfully that hadn't happened. But more 1:20:52.760 --> 1:20:56.040 and more where I stated showed up, local people also 1:20:56.120 --> 1:20:59.719 showed up. They called them are number of things, fascists, cowards, 1:21:01.200 --> 1:21:04.439 and then people began to organize, following ICE agents around 1:21:04.520 --> 1:21:08.400 and announcing their presence, identifying their hotels and making noise outside, 1:21:08.720 --> 1:21:11.120 picking up neighbors kids, and getting their groceries so people 1:21:11.160 --> 1:21:13.479 wouldn't need to expose themselves to the risk of arrest. 1:21:14.040 --> 1:21:17.840 If ICE agents were spotted, people alerted their communities. It 1:21:17.960 --> 1:21:20.160 is across the US. People began to form networks to 1:21:20.240 --> 1:21:23.000 take care of their neighbors. Some of this came from 1:21:23.040 --> 1:21:25.960 lifelong activists, but much of it did not. People even 1:21:25.960 --> 1:21:29.240 began using apps normally used for suburban racism like nextdoor 1:21:29.320 --> 1:21:32.559 and ring to call out the presence of ICE. Raids 1:21:32.600 --> 1:21:35.320 were reposed and ICE agents were shouted out across the country, 1:21:35.640 --> 1:21:51.600 but they still kept going. It wasn't until June that 1:21:51.680 --> 1:21:55.200 we saw the first mass protest. Everyone wondered if we'd 1:21:55.200 --> 1:21:58.360 be in for another hot summer like twenty twenty. CBP 1:21:58.479 --> 1:22:01.080 officers had been deployed to LA to conduct a series 1:22:01.120 --> 1:22:04.960 of loud and once again curated for Instagram Braids. Board 1:22:04.960 --> 1:22:08.240 of Patrols El Centro Sector Chief patrol Agent Gregory Bavino, 1:22:08.360 --> 1:22:11.439 became the faith of the operation even before Trump had 1:22:11.439 --> 1:22:14.160 taken office. Just a day after Congress had certified the 1:22:14.200 --> 1:22:17.479 results of the election, Bavino had sent sixty five agents 1:22:17.520 --> 1:22:20.320 six hours norse of the border to push the boundaries 1:22:20.360 --> 1:22:23.400 of what people would accept. In California's Central Valley, not 1:22:23.520 --> 1:22:26.799 so far from Los Gatos Canyon, he led Operation Return 1:22:26.920 --> 1:22:30.320 to Sender, accosting Latino farm workers at convenience stores and 1:22:30.400 --> 1:22:33.559 on the way to work. Bavino claimed the operation was targeted, 1:22:33.880 --> 1:22:36.559 but reporting from cal Matas showed CBP had no prior 1:22:36.640 --> 1:22:41.120 records for seventy seven of the seventy eight people had arrested. Bavino, 1:22:41.600 --> 1:22:44.080 who has bestowed the title of Premiere Sector on the 1:22:44.120 --> 1:22:47.080 part of the border he oversees, has five agents on 1:22:47.120 --> 1:22:51.000 a team dedicated to producing videos. He likes to praise Eisenhower, 1:22:51.280 --> 1:22:55.200 whose Operation WAG often flew migrants to our center before 1:22:55.240 --> 1:22:58.080 they were sent back to Mexico. The plane which crashed 1:22:58.080 --> 1:23:01.800 in Los Gato's Canyon was headed there. Bovino has a 1:23:01.840 --> 1:23:04.400 long history of these raids, dating back to at least 1:23:04.400 --> 1:23:07.040 twenty ten in Las Vegas, and he is very much 1:23:07.200 --> 1:23:10.200 the face of the new border patrol approach. While ICE 1:23:10.280 --> 1:23:13.519 numbers are growing, CBP still has several times more offices, 1:23:13.880 --> 1:23:16.120 and indeed some reporting suggests that ICE offices and some 1:23:16.280 --> 1:23:20.400 offices might be replaced with CBP personnel. Border Patrol notionally 1:23:20.439 --> 1:23:23.040 operates within one hundred miles to the border, an area 1:23:23.080 --> 1:23:25.640 which includes all US coastline and the entire shore of 1:23:25.640 --> 1:23:28.479 the Great Lakes, and even then this one hundred miles 1:23:28.560 --> 1:23:31.439 is an interpretation and not a hard legal blog. This 1:23:31.680 --> 1:23:34.439 remint covers two thirds of the population and gives them 1:23:34.479 --> 1:23:37.519 a widely way to infringe on the Fourth Amendment. This 1:23:37.640 --> 1:23:39.960 has been the case for decades since the Department of 1:23:40.040 --> 1:23:42.800 Home Land Security was founded after nine to eleven, but 1:23:42.920 --> 1:23:45.800 mass protests against CBP has been rare. We've seen it 1:23:45.840 --> 1:23:48.000 on occasion, the lesson you'd think for an agency with 1:23:48.080 --> 1:23:50.040 such a broad remit in a country that seems so 1:23:50.160 --> 1:23:53.600 proud of the first ten amendments to the Constitution. In 1:23:53.840 --> 1:23:56.880 La though people weren't having it following a series of 1:23:56.960 --> 1:23:59.639 violent raids, Border Patrol agents hadn't been met with protest 1:23:59.680 --> 1:24:03.400 across the city. They'd responded with tear gas, projectile weapons, 1:24:03.439 --> 1:24:06.920 and threats. They'd arrested Dennis wuerta leader of the Service 1:24:06.960 --> 1:24:10.559 Employees United International, one of the largest unions in the country, 1:24:10.880 --> 1:24:13.840 as well as dozens of other Angelinos. They'd shut tear 1:24:13.880 --> 1:24:16.240 gas out of moving vehicles and a naunched projectiles into 1:24:16.240 --> 1:24:19.960 the faces of reporters and bystanders alike. Seeing this, doing 1:24:20.040 --> 1:24:22.400 what I do. I got on a train to Los Angeles, 1:24:23.040 --> 1:24:25.360 but within being southern California, it took like five hours. 1:24:31.360 --> 1:24:32.759 Are they throwing or shooting? 1:24:50.200 --> 1:24:50.680 Did you get hit? 1:24:50.720 --> 1:24:57.080 You're okay? I'm going to that tree on the right. 1:24:58.320 --> 1:24:58.519 Yeah. 1:25:00.960 --> 1:25:03.080 After getting off the train in LA, and before I 1:25:03.120 --> 1:25:05.519 met my friend Charles McBride to work of some coverage together, 1:25:06.000 --> 1:25:08.679 I walked around Olverda Street, grabbed a coffee, and spoke 1:25:08.720 --> 1:25:11.519 to some of the local folks. There were tags all 1:25:11.600 --> 1:25:13.920 over the walls and windows of the buildings around the 1:25:13.960 --> 1:25:17.240 train station, but that's always been how LA has expressed itself. 1:25:18.160 --> 1:25:20.200 All I heard from people I met there was support. 1:25:21.120 --> 1:25:23.559 One man expressed to me that his anxiety made protests 1:25:23.600 --> 1:25:25.800 very uncomfortable for him, but he was glad to see 1:25:25.800 --> 1:25:29.479 people standing up. Obviously, crimes against property are something that 1:25:29.560 --> 1:25:32.519 parts of Los Angeles take very seriously. It's a spiritual 1:25:32.560 --> 1:25:35.960 home of conspicuous consumption. But in this instance, it seemed 1:25:36.000 --> 1:25:38.120 everyone I've met either didn't care or was so mad 1:25:38.200 --> 1:25:42.639 they didn't care. From mid morning to early the next day, LAPD, 1:25:43.000 --> 1:25:45.280 who are not supposed to assist CBP but who can 1:25:45.439 --> 1:25:48.880 enforce state law, chased angry kids around their own city, 1:25:49.720 --> 1:25:52.599 its skid row and downtown LA. Tear Gas flooded the streets, 1:25:52.840 --> 1:25:55.679 and so did young people from across town. In between 1:25:55.720 --> 1:25:57.479 the tear gas and pepper bulls, I managed to talk 1:25:57.520 --> 1:26:01.000 to a few of them. Their stories were similar. They 1:26:01.040 --> 1:26:03.639 were those kids whose better futures had bought their parents here. 1:26:04.280 --> 1:26:06.880 They were citizens raised in the USA to believe in 1:26:06.920 --> 1:26:09.640 the right to free speech and assembly, something they were 1:26:09.680 --> 1:26:11.439 now using to make their voices heard. 1:26:12.880 --> 1:26:17.559 I mean, my family, they're you know, susceptible to all 1:26:17.560 --> 1:26:20.160 the ice rays and stuff like that, and you know, 1:26:20.360 --> 1:26:22.479 being a citizen here, I feel like it's my duty 1:26:22.520 --> 1:26:25.439 to come out here and you know, speak out and 1:26:25.560 --> 1:26:26.400 know for those who can. 1:26:28.600 --> 1:26:30.560 It made me think of Primrose and Kimberly and the 1:26:30.640 --> 1:26:33.800 future they might both have I sincerely hope that one 1:26:33.880 --> 1:26:36.000 day at Kimberly and every other kid I met the 1:26:36.080 --> 1:26:38.880 jungle would feel brave enough to be out here and 1:26:39.000 --> 1:26:41.160 just by everything, be strong enough to stand up against 1:26:41.160 --> 1:26:44.960 state violence. Unbeknown to me, Primrose and Kim weren't that 1:26:45.040 --> 1:26:47.320 far away. They had a check in with ICE at 1:26:47.320 --> 1:26:49.920 the DTLA federal building that day, and as they rode 1:26:49.920 --> 1:26:52.760 by in a bus past the protesting crowds, Kim said 1:26:52.800 --> 1:26:55.639 to her mom, look, it's uncle James. Her mom, of course, 1:26:55.680 --> 1:26:57.760 told her it couldn't have been, but she was right. 1:26:57.880 --> 1:27:01.200 It was. After nine months only speaking on the phone, 1:27:01.520 --> 1:27:04.080 can believe somehow recognize me. It might be being wrapped 1:27:04.120 --> 1:27:18.040 up in a helmet and a plate carrier. When they 1:27:18.120 --> 1:27:20.519 first arrived, they went to stay with someone they knew 1:27:20.520 --> 1:27:22.760 in Texas. I plan to go and visit them there 1:27:22.760 --> 1:27:25.679 and accompany them to their court hearing. At this point, 1:27:25.880 --> 1:27:27.920 I say, agents had already begun snatching people in the 1:27:27.960 --> 1:27:30.759 corridors of the courthouses after the government withdrew their cases 1:27:31.120 --> 1:27:34.840 and placed them in expedited removal proceedings, which meant mandatory detention. 1:27:35.560 --> 1:27:37.040 There's not much any of us can do about this, 1:27:37.479 --> 1:27:39.680 but I didn't want them to be alone. Then I 1:27:39.760 --> 1:27:42.800 got COVID and couldn't go his curse in explaining how 1:27:42.840 --> 1:27:44.000 this process works. 1:27:44.360 --> 1:27:47.240 So INA Section two thirty five applies to people who 1:27:47.680 --> 1:27:50.519 entered within less than two years, Like you said, they 1:27:50.720 --> 1:27:54.240 can be then subject to what's called expedited removal. That 1:27:54.400 --> 1:27:56.960 means that they have to take a credible fear interview 1:27:57.040 --> 1:27:59.760 and be detained, and that they only get to fight 1:27:59.800 --> 1:28:02.280 a case if they pass their credible fear interview. They 1:28:02.400 --> 1:28:05.120 do not qualify for an immigration judge bond, so they 1:28:05.200 --> 1:28:06.920 only get out if ICE lets them out, which of 1:28:07.000 --> 1:28:11.400 course Ice is letting nobody out. So the administration wants 1:28:11.439 --> 1:28:13.960 to have people detained under this authority, this two thirty 1:28:14.000 --> 1:28:18.040 five authority, as much as possible, to have them have 1:28:18.240 --> 1:28:21.360 to fight their case detained and either lose the will 1:28:21.439 --> 1:28:24.960 to do so and or not be able to afford 1:28:24.960 --> 1:28:27.599 an attorney, because detained cases move along a lot quicker 1:28:28.439 --> 1:28:31.320 and are very costly as well for that reason. So 1:28:32.040 --> 1:28:35.679 what they're doing is anybody who was here two years 1:28:35.760 --> 1:28:37.920 or less but was parolled in so they're in the 1:28:37.960 --> 1:28:40.760 regular immigration court proceedings. They got out there under two 1:28:40.880 --> 1:28:44.400 forty proceedings that's called so DHS attorneys in court are 1:28:44.520 --> 1:28:47.560 terminating those proceedings. They're asking the judge to terminate the 1:28:47.600 --> 1:28:50.000 two forty proceedings, so then that case is closed and 1:28:50.040 --> 1:28:53.040 then they immediately restart a case under section two thirty five. 1:28:54.160 --> 1:28:57.599 The hearing went relatively smoothly. Their lawyer, who is now 1:28:57.640 --> 1:29:00.800 working for whatever Primrose could fundraise able to help them 1:29:00.840 --> 1:29:04.719 make their case. They left with another heroic schedules. Soon after, 1:29:05.120 --> 1:29:06.960 they decided to move to La to stay with another 1:29:07.040 --> 1:29:09.840 friend after the housing situation in Texas fell through. They 1:29:09.880 --> 1:29:11.559 were living in East LA when they had their next 1:29:11.640 --> 1:29:12.240 ice checking. 1:29:13.479 --> 1:29:16.240 Yeah, I was living an appointment and you said they 1:29:16.320 --> 1:29:18.760 went back to get some documents and they made you 1:29:18.840 --> 1:29:22.479 wake out. Yeah, yeah, I went there, I think around 1:29:22.720 --> 1:29:28.640 af eight two four pm. At first they came and 1:29:28.720 --> 1:29:31.320 give me my papers. They said, go to chat with 1:29:31.760 --> 1:29:34.800 which is close to where you stay. Then too came 1:29:34.840 --> 1:29:40.000 here in La downtown. So when I walk away, I 1:29:40.160 --> 1:29:42.320 realized there was no other documents. 1:29:43.120 --> 1:29:43.760 Then I woke. 1:29:44.840 --> 1:29:45.360 I go big. 1:29:45.400 --> 1:29:48.360 I said to Kim, I let's go big inside. Then 1:29:48.400 --> 1:29:51.880 I go to the reception. Then I asked the lady 1:29:51.880 --> 1:29:54.479 and she was the ruder it first. Then She took 1:29:54.560 --> 1:29:56.840 my documents, then said, oh okay, let me go and 1:29:56.960 --> 1:30:00.840 find it. Three hours, four hours, not big. Then she 1:30:00.920 --> 1:30:05.040 came in and called me, I think four pm. Then 1:30:05.120 --> 1:30:07.560 the ice officer is just telling me I'm going to Detainia. 1:30:09.520 --> 1:30:12.800 I said, oh why, I said, oh, we are going 1:30:12.880 --> 1:30:13.800 to explain more. 1:30:15.320 --> 1:30:17.479 We are going, I said, oh, okay. 1:30:19.000 --> 1:30:21.200 Like thousands of other migrants who are trying to do 1:30:21.320 --> 1:30:24.840 as they're asked, Primros has detained her check in along 1:30:24.920 --> 1:30:27.479 with Kim. Previously, she'd been given ice check ins in 1:30:27.600 --> 1:30:30.920 Riverside despite living in East LA. I'd helped her navigate 1:30:30.960 --> 1:30:32.640 the four and a half hour bus route to get 1:30:32.680 --> 1:30:35.719 there on time. Wondered how on earth, someone who doesn't 1:30:35.760 --> 1:30:37.639 have a friend here, or who doesn't speak English, she's 1:30:37.640 --> 1:30:40.720 expected to do this. She went out of her way 1:30:40.800 --> 1:30:42.760 to make sure she was there and she had her 1:30:42.840 --> 1:30:45.760 documents in order. Despite all of this, but she and 1:30:45.880 --> 1:30:49.160 Kim believe were detained anyway, It's not hard for me 1:30:49.240 --> 1:30:50.680 to see why people in La were mad. 1:30:51.760 --> 1:30:56.360 Then they took me to Santana. We were just sitting. 1:30:56.640 --> 1:30:57.440 Not even. 1:30:58.760 --> 1:31:00.960 One Ice officer comes to me nothing. 1:31:01.080 --> 1:31:03.840 I was just sitting And the other thing, they just 1:31:04.040 --> 1:31:06.479 took my phone same time they switched it off. Then 1:31:06.520 --> 1:31:09.880 I said, can I tell even one of my friends, 1:31:10.960 --> 1:31:14.280 maybe they they are worried, and now said no, no, 1:31:14.400 --> 1:31:16.200 we are going to give you a phone. Later on 1:31:16.360 --> 1:31:19.040 I said, okay, So in Sanna they took us in 1:31:19.080 --> 1:31:23.040 a hotel to sleep. Then the following day they took 1:31:23.080 --> 1:31:28.559 big us to Sundernard Detention Center, not even one officer. 1:31:28.680 --> 1:31:31.599 I was being asking the securities. They said, we don't 1:31:31.640 --> 1:31:37.439 even know. We spent the whole day sitting doing nothing. 1:31:37.479 --> 1:31:40.120 We were just sitting. Then they took us, I think 1:31:40.200 --> 1:31:45.519 around the six pm pack to Los Angeles. Then when 1:31:46.320 --> 1:31:49.439 that's why I saw the ICE officer. Then she explained 1:31:49.479 --> 1:31:51.920 to me we are going to detain. You are going 1:31:52.000 --> 1:31:56.160 to put you somewhere because the rules are changing every day. 1:31:56.920 --> 1:32:00.360 I even asked you, did I do something well? She 1:32:00.439 --> 1:32:00.760 said no. 1:32:03.080 --> 1:32:05.479 I've heard this from a lot of migrants. The ICE 1:32:05.520 --> 1:32:08.519 agents managing their non detained docket, as opposed to those 1:32:08.920 --> 1:32:12.400 enforcement removal or detention, seemed to be struggling to keep 1:32:12.479 --> 1:32:15.000 up with the pace of the changes in rules. Many 1:32:15.000 --> 1:32:17.439 of the migrants I'd heard from had decent relationships with 1:32:17.479 --> 1:32:19.719 the officers who do their check ins and they can't 1:32:19.760 --> 1:32:22.439 understand why other officers working for the same organization would 1:32:22.479 --> 1:32:25.200 detain them even though they're doing exactly what they're asked 1:32:25.280 --> 1:32:28.920 to do. They are doing things quote unquote the right way, 1:32:29.479 --> 1:32:32.519 but that's not enough for an agency desperately driven by 1:32:32.640 --> 1:32:35.599 quotas and the desire to purgenation of people who had 1:32:35.680 --> 1:32:39.080 risked their lives to become Americans. Let's hear how this 1:32:39.200 --> 1:32:40.560 felt for Primrose. 1:32:41.920 --> 1:32:45.000 Then, said Duyev lawyer. I said yes. 1:32:45.560 --> 1:32:47.880 Then she said okay, it's fine, so she'd give me 1:32:47.960 --> 1:32:50.800 another documentary to sign. Then I signed, like they are 1:32:50.880 --> 1:32:54.559 going to detain me. Then I ask you for how 1:32:54.680 --> 1:32:57.000 long they are I don't think you guys will you 1:32:57.040 --> 1:32:59.200 are going and going to stay more than fourteen days? 1:33:00.040 --> 1:33:03.800 Made less than fourteen days. I said, okay. Then I 1:33:04.000 --> 1:33:06.960 asked your phone to call a lawyer. She gave me 1:33:07.080 --> 1:33:11.080 a phone. Then I conduct the lawyer. The lawyer the 1:33:11.160 --> 1:33:14.680 phone was off. Then I tried to conduct one of 1:33:14.800 --> 1:33:18.600 my friends. Then the aunts, I said, we wanted to 1:33:18.680 --> 1:33:21.200 go to the police to ask you because we were 1:33:21.240 --> 1:33:22.800 worried because your phone was. 1:33:22.960 --> 1:33:23.800 Off, and. 1:33:25.360 --> 1:33:27.840 The ice officer, the ice officer the bother I was 1:33:27.880 --> 1:33:31.680 gaving a GPS. So my GPS was off for the 1:33:31.760 --> 1:33:35.760 way phoning. Uh the person way up to me in 1:33:35.920 --> 1:33:40.800 Texas looking for me. Then he also replaced, I'm also 1:33:40.880 --> 1:33:42.640 looking for you. I don't even know where she is. 1:33:43.479 --> 1:33:43.679 Yeah. 1:33:44.560 --> 1:33:48.439 So people they were worried, maybe I will someone kidnap you. 1:33:48.760 --> 1:33:49.760 Something happened to me. 1:33:50.040 --> 1:33:55.200 Yeah, yeah, so you and another ice officer is also 1:33:55.360 --> 1:33:55.960 looking for you. 1:33:56.120 --> 1:33:58.280 Yeah, the other officer, we're looking for me. They were 1:33:58.320 --> 1:34:03.080 even sending messages on their up yeah, yeah, asking where 1:34:03.120 --> 1:34:06.320 are you charge your GPS? And the other ice officer 1:34:06.479 --> 1:34:10.439 was detaining me. Then I even explained to her. She said, 1:34:10.479 --> 1:34:12.759 oh no, no, it's okay. Then she took the scissor. 1:34:12.840 --> 1:34:13.839 Then she cut the GPS. 1:34:15.240 --> 1:34:15.960 She cut it off. 1:34:16.800 --> 1:34:19.960 They know we Spain. I think one hour it was 1:34:20.400 --> 1:34:26.760 around saving. Then they said okay, or there someone is 1:34:26.880 --> 1:34:30.840 coming to take you and your daughter, So to take 1:34:30.920 --> 1:34:34.200 you somewhere which is safe with your child. I ask 1:34:34.600 --> 1:34:37.880 a way those people they said, we don't know, we 1:34:38.000 --> 1:34:44.120 don't know. Then I said, oh okay. Then they searched me. 1:34:45.040 --> 1:34:46.880 They said, do you want to take your big They 1:34:46.880 --> 1:34:49.160 said no, no, it's fine. I can ask if someone 1:34:49.160 --> 1:34:50.920 because I know I was saving, I'll was key for 1:34:51.120 --> 1:34:51.719 the apartment. 1:34:53.000 --> 1:34:56.040 Primrose, like many people seeking asylum, had to wear a 1:34:56.120 --> 1:34:59.679 GPS and tag part of ices Alternatives to Detention program. 1:35:00.640 --> 1:35:03.519 There are various parts of the program, including facial recognition 1:35:03.640 --> 1:35:06.760 check ins via a smartphone app, home visits, and the 1:35:06.880 --> 1:35:11.000 Intensive Supervision Parents program, which is administered by Behavioral Interventions 1:35:11.040 --> 1:35:15.320 A Geogroupsubsidiary ICE AP as it's known, includes an app 1:35:15.360 --> 1:35:17.439 through which people can check it, as well as the 1:35:17.520 --> 1:35:20.880 GPS monitors and smart watches which can monitor GPS and 1:35:21.040 --> 1:35:25.240 do facial recognition. Very obviously, they're not being used in 1:35:25.280 --> 1:35:27.839 a systematic way, as one branch of ICE was detaining 1:35:27.880 --> 1:35:30.960 Primrose while another was using a GPS tag to try 1:35:30.960 --> 1:35:34.160 and find her. All of the GPS devices used to 1:35:34.200 --> 1:35:38.439 altern Things to Detention represent massive surveillance overreach, an invasion 1:35:38.479 --> 1:35:41.240 of privacy, and a huge government dragnet of data they 1:35:41.280 --> 1:35:43.240 can use to track down migrants and the people they're with. 1:35:44.120 --> 1:35:48.040 Despite this, they're also better than detention, which is where 1:35:48.080 --> 1:35:50.240 Primros ended up, but not directly. 1:35:51.160 --> 1:35:54.000 Maybe they are going to depot to me. I can't 1:35:54.080 --> 1:35:58.160 go with the keys. Then they took my big so 1:35:58.320 --> 1:36:02.160 I'll gry. I'm going to put somewhere after one hour, 1:36:02.280 --> 1:36:07.560 they took us to Lax Airport. They put us in 1:36:07.600 --> 1:36:14.160 a hotel. It was around twelve year twelve feear that time. Indeed, 1:36:14.200 --> 1:36:16.120 they said, okay, so when you can nave a shower, 1:36:17.000 --> 1:36:19.320 then you can nave a nap. So me I was 1:36:19.560 --> 1:36:20.759 in the shower in the kimber. 1:36:20.880 --> 1:36:21.160 She was. 1:36:22.840 --> 1:36:27.880 Already on the bed sleeping. Then the lady came in said, 1:36:28.320 --> 1:36:31.680 make fast, we are going to We want to go 1:36:31.840 --> 1:36:36.519 back to pick another person where we came from. Ah, 1:36:36.720 --> 1:36:38.120 then I wake, I awake him. 1:36:38.880 --> 1:36:40.280 She was crying. She was like, I want to. 1:36:40.360 --> 1:36:43.640 Sleep because she was leaving headache. Then they said no, no, no, 1:36:43.880 --> 1:36:46.800 it's okay, let's go, you're going to sleep where we 1:36:46.880 --> 1:36:49.439 are going. We spent the one night. 1:36:50.880 --> 1:36:51.479 Up and down. 1:36:52.200 --> 1:36:55.840 We came back again to La Downtown to pick another 1:36:55.960 --> 1:36:58.599 guy with his side with his son. Then they took 1:36:58.680 --> 1:37:01.880 us to San Diego Airport. I think we arrived there. 1:37:01.880 --> 1:37:07.760 I think it's five am to take the flight to 1:37:08.840 --> 1:37:16.320 San Antonio takes us. Then after that and then the 1:37:16.439 --> 1:37:18.800 other lead she was rude. The other one she was nice, 1:37:18.840 --> 1:37:20.680 she was fine. The other one, if you ask her, 1:37:20.720 --> 1:37:24.000 she was like, she was rude. Then I just keep quiet. 1:37:25.840 --> 1:37:30.400 Then I think at the airport, we spent three hours sitting. 1:37:30.439 --> 1:37:36.439 Then I was flight at eight am to San Antonio. Yeah, 1:37:36.520 --> 1:37:43.160 they took us to delay immigration. They welcome us, nice everything. Yeah, 1:37:43.640 --> 1:37:48.280 then they put us inside. But for me, I was 1:37:49.400 --> 1:37:54.719 I was crying to be honesty. Yeah, I was even crying, 1:37:55.280 --> 1:37:59.920 like you know, the only pace and make me strong. 1:38:00.000 --> 1:38:04.479 And it's came and it's a waste for here. Since 1:38:05.000 --> 1:38:10.840 our last year, since last year, your life is something else. 1:38:10.920 --> 1:38:13.599 I'm just moving from one place to another, moving from 1:38:13.640 --> 1:38:18.080 one place to another. You know, she's a strong girl, 1:38:18.320 --> 1:38:23.639 but sometimes you can see when you see it's sitting down, startying, crying. 1:38:23.880 --> 1:38:27.559 She just remind you something. Yeah. 1:38:30.439 --> 1:38:31.160 So yeah. 1:38:33.640 --> 1:38:37.200 The Florida Settlement governed detention of children by immigration authorities. 1:38:37.720 --> 1:38:39.800 It limits the time they can be held to twenty days, 1:38:40.400 --> 1:38:43.960 and established minimum standards for their detention and treatment. It 1:38:44.080 --> 1:38:47.080 was a lawsuit based on this Florida Settlement that eventually 1:38:47.240 --> 1:38:50.640 ended the Biden era policy of outdoor attention. The settlement 1:38:51.120 --> 1:38:53.880 is widely flouted, but it was the best hope. Promos 1:38:53.920 --> 1:38:58.559 and Kimberly had Kirstin their lawyer we heard from earlier, 1:38:58.840 --> 1:39:02.080 worked tirelessly to the man baby treated according to their rights. 1:39:03.240 --> 1:39:05.000 And how was it? You caught me a few times 1:39:05.040 --> 1:39:09.599 in Dali, right, like how Kim wasn't having a good. 1:39:09.520 --> 1:39:12.200 Time first week? 1:39:12.560 --> 1:39:15.720 It was hard even for both of us. Yeah, yeah, 1:39:16.800 --> 1:39:19.960 even the food me, I wasn't even it. It was 1:39:20.120 --> 1:39:23.479 very hard for both of us. But you know, kids, 1:39:24.280 --> 1:39:25.600 she was like used to to. 1:39:26.840 --> 1:39:29.880 Primos called me a few times from detention. I pick 1:39:29.960 --> 1:39:32.000 up the phone to a robot voice and the number 1:39:32.000 --> 1:39:34.840 would identify itself on my phone as Federal detention or 1:39:34.880 --> 1:39:38.240 something like that. First, obviously I was afraid, but I 1:39:38.360 --> 1:39:40.599 had an idea of what it could be. Yet another 1:39:40.640 --> 1:39:43.320 connection that began with a little piece of waterproof paper 1:39:43.400 --> 1:39:46.679 in the jungle and was now nine months later, leading 1:39:46.720 --> 1:39:49.040 to a phone call from a prison for families in Texas. 1:39:49.880 --> 1:39:51.280 I'd pick up the phone and then I'd have to 1:39:51.360 --> 1:39:54.120 press one or two to accept the call. I always 1:39:54.120 --> 1:39:56.479 wondered what I was about to hear. I could tell 1:39:56.560 --> 1:39:58.200 she was trying to put on a brave face, but 1:39:58.320 --> 1:40:01.800 she sounded so small it was difficult, really hard to hear. 1:40:02.800 --> 1:40:05.000 She said Kim wasn't eating a food, which I've often 1:40:05.080 --> 1:40:07.639 heard is terrible. I spent hours trying to find out 1:40:07.640 --> 1:40:09.840 how to put money on their commentsary account so she 1:40:09.880 --> 1:40:12.800 could get something a little better casting for on and 1:40:12.920 --> 1:40:15.280 on to try and get them released. I remember at 1:40:15.320 --> 1:40:18.000 one point hearing from Primrose locked up with her daughter 1:40:18.080 --> 1:40:20.360 for the crime of asking this country for help on 1:40:20.479 --> 1:40:23.280 the fourth of July. It would be too cliche if 1:40:23.280 --> 1:40:26.080 I made that up. But nothing this year really seems believable, 1:40:27.080 --> 1:40:30.160 even a nice attention, which is a miserable place for anyone. 1:40:30.920 --> 1:40:33.439 Primrose and Kim had an especially hard time as most 1:40:33.439 --> 1:40:35.439 of the migrants they were detained with spoke Spanish. 1:40:36.760 --> 1:40:37.200 And the way. 1:40:37.400 --> 1:40:42.160 The other thing is like those people they were, especially 1:40:42.200 --> 1:40:44.320 in their room, they put me, all of them, they 1:40:44.360 --> 1:40:48.439 were Spanish, and me, I do anything understand the Spanish. 1:40:48.439 --> 1:40:52.719 I even asking the ice officer, can you please maybe 1:40:52.760 --> 1:40:56.639 because there's another lady also two ladies I think Africans. 1:40:56.680 --> 1:40:59.920 We were only four families, so we even ask them 1:41:00.120 --> 1:41:02.640 can you put us in one room so that we 1:41:02.720 --> 1:41:06.400 can understand each other, even especially for the TV. You know, 1:41:06.600 --> 1:41:15.759 kids their issues. So sometimes I even had a report 1:41:15.840 --> 1:41:18.599 to one of the lady. She was very rude to us. 1:41:19.840 --> 1:41:23.920 She came and speak something so me and you came 1:41:24.240 --> 1:41:27.200 we don't even understand like what she said. So I 1:41:27.360 --> 1:41:30.519 just saw people they're doing something. Then letter she was like, yay, 1:41:30.720 --> 1:41:34.120 I came here and I said this. Yeah, when you 1:41:34.240 --> 1:41:37.240 came here, you just speak Spanish. You didn't even explain 1:41:37.320 --> 1:41:41.280 with English, and of which may I don't understand English. 1:41:41.800 --> 1:41:46.479 So she just write a report to a boss. So 1:41:46.640 --> 1:41:49.439 a boss came and called me. Then I explained to you. 1:41:50.360 --> 1:41:53.960 Then she was like, oh okay. Then they called Yeah. 1:41:55.080 --> 1:41:57.920 She wanted to say no, no, no, I even explained 1:41:57.960 --> 1:42:01.800 to English. Then there's another woman inside my room. Then 1:42:02.200 --> 1:42:04.640 she spoke with the Spanish. I didn't even hear, but 1:42:04.800 --> 1:42:06.679 she was telling the officer no, no, no, this woman 1:42:06.760 --> 1:42:09.799 she's lying. She just came and speaks spanishye, and not English. 1:42:10.479 --> 1:42:12.920 So these people they were just sleeping. They didn't even 1:42:13.000 --> 1:42:17.240 know what to do because she just only spoke Spanish only. 1:42:18.760 --> 1:42:20.960 I've heard this from lots of migrants. They end up 1:42:20.960 --> 1:42:23.640 serving as translators for each other because the agency that 1:42:23.760 --> 1:42:28.000 is founded better than most countries' militaries seemingly won't provide them. Often, 1:42:28.000 --> 1:42:30.599 people who speak indigenous languages have to find a translator 1:42:30.640 --> 1:42:33.080 into Spanish or Russian or whatever other language. They have 1:42:33.160 --> 1:42:36.840 a colonial relationship with Other times there's just nobody to 1:42:36.920 --> 1:42:51.240 help them, and they're even more alone than afraid. Luckily, 1:42:51.439 --> 1:42:54.880 Primrose wasn't alone. She had came with her and as 1:42:54.920 --> 1:42:57.519 they always do, they looked out for each other. These 1:42:57.560 --> 1:43:00.439 aren't things the child should have to do. Certainly childish 1:43:00.439 --> 1:43:02.840 young at Kimberly, but in the end it was Kimberly 1:43:02.880 --> 1:43:04.439 who could help work out what was going on. 1:43:05.600 --> 1:43:09.800 Then the ice officer I started crying, like then they 1:43:09.880 --> 1:43:12.680 took me to psychologist and then they said no, no, 1:43:12.800 --> 1:43:17.200 it's okay. I think I even spent three days that side. 1:43:17.280 --> 1:43:19.280 They removed me in their room, then they put me back. 1:43:21.400 --> 1:43:27.160 So Kimbleage was leaning under standing Spanish. So sometimes you 1:43:27.360 --> 1:43:30.720 see olping me or Mammy they said this, and that, 1:43:30.840 --> 1:43:32.720 they said this, and that. I even write it not 1:43:33.720 --> 1:43:36.960 to complain, like when these people came, then we have 1:43:37.040 --> 1:43:40.200 to accommodate all of us, because it's not like, oh, 1:43:40.320 --> 1:43:44.280 we are all Spanish and we don't understand Spanish. 1:43:45.360 --> 1:43:48.760 And then it's being overcrowded and underfed. Migrants and ice 1:43:48.840 --> 1:43:52.479 facilities were often incredibly bored. I've heard of some of 1:43:52.520 --> 1:43:55.000 them trying to teach yoga or share stories, but for 1:43:55.080 --> 1:43:57.040 the most part, they're so afraid and isolated that they 1:43:57.040 --> 1:43:59.400 are forced to sit with their anxieties day after day. 1:44:00.000 --> 1:44:02.280 I can't imagine what this is like for parents. They 1:44:02.320 --> 1:44:04.160 have to try and maintain their own mental health and 1:44:04.280 --> 1:44:05.320 take care of their children. 1:44:05.960 --> 1:44:09.320 But to be honest, we were just sitting. So time goes. 1:44:09.360 --> 1:44:14.880 Oh yeah, because I remember one day we went to place. 1:44:16.240 --> 1:44:18.559 We went to the gym to play I think Soca 1:44:18.680 --> 1:44:23.760 with game. I just fell down. I just felt down. 1:44:23.920 --> 1:44:26.599 They took me to hospa to I think I spent 1:44:27.720 --> 1:44:29.519 I think three hours then I wake up. 1:44:30.880 --> 1:44:31.120 Yeah. 1:44:32.960 --> 1:44:38.439 Yeah, because I think it's depression. So they put me 1:44:39.200 --> 1:44:44.840 in depression pills to get it out. Yeah, because my 1:44:45.000 --> 1:44:52.960 bibi was high every time and ever time different time. Yeah. 1:44:53.360 --> 1:44:57.840 But I asked my ice officer about my case. 1:44:58.880 --> 1:45:02.120 Then she just replied, I'm just waiting for us to 1:45:02.320 --> 1:45:04.679 close your case and we can start for asylum. 1:45:05.360 --> 1:45:07.559 So I was just sitting doing nothing. 1:45:09.520 --> 1:45:12.439 Despite what the detention was doing to her, Premiers remain 1:45:12.520 --> 1:45:16.840 determined to keep fighting her case. Every Thursday, an ice 1:45:16.880 --> 1:45:18.880 officer would come by and she would be able to 1:45:18.920 --> 1:45:21.360 ask about her case. She'd been looking forward to the 1:45:21.439 --> 1:45:22.880 only point in her week when she might get some 1:45:22.960 --> 1:45:25.560 good news or at least some news about what was 1:45:25.600 --> 1:45:29.240 happening to her. Why, Sally, that's not how it went. 1:45:30.280 --> 1:45:31.160 Yeah, there was ice. 1:45:31.240 --> 1:45:35.120 Officer was very loud, to be honest, everyone just walk 1:45:35.200 --> 1:45:40.559 away without and the people they were crying, complaining. Then 1:45:40.680 --> 1:45:44.080 it was like I went to him, straight to him. 1:45:44.120 --> 1:45:46.800 I wanted to ask him a question. He said, Hey, 1:45:47.000 --> 1:45:50.840 I don't have time. The only thing I can even 1:45:52.040 --> 1:45:57.639 tell you, guys, if you're tired of staying here, because 1:45:57.680 --> 1:46:00.719 they were putting papers for self deportation in our rooms, 1:46:00.840 --> 1:46:03.920 like if you want to deport it anytime, you can 1:46:04.040 --> 1:46:07.479 just sign you put your a number, your phone number, everything, 1:46:08.000 --> 1:46:11.599 then they can make you fine ticket here. 1:46:12.760 --> 1:46:15.599 In her lowest moment, Premier said she felt like giving up. 1:46:16.200 --> 1:46:18.920 Maybe it wasn't worth it. She thought, if you would 1:46:18.960 --> 1:46:20.240 do anything to get away from the hell of the 1:46:20.320 --> 1:46:23.360 detention center, that's the goal of these places, to break people. 1:46:24.160 --> 1:46:26.439 The Kible reminded her what they'd come all this way for. 1:46:27.040 --> 1:46:30.000 Because when I was in detention, there's a time I 1:46:30.160 --> 1:46:32.479 was like, I'm going to sign any deportation from Oh 1:46:33.080 --> 1:46:33.960 he's cream. 1:46:34.840 --> 1:46:37.840 She said, no, people, they are going to kill you. 1:46:38.200 --> 1:46:40.840 If you want to go back. Oh, it's fine. It's 1:46:40.920 --> 1:46:41.200 up to you. 1:46:41.320 --> 1:46:43.760 If you want to go, die, go not to me, 1:46:43.960 --> 1:46:46.920 sign your paper, not to my paper. You must sign 1:46:47.040 --> 1:46:50.920 yours then you can go. Don't sign my name. No, 1:46:52.040 --> 1:46:54.759 I do rather stay a year because I know people, 1:46:55.040 --> 1:46:57.320 because there's a lot of people happening in the a ice, 1:46:57.880 --> 1:47:04.520 especially in my country. Also, so she still remember everything. 1:47:05.880 --> 1:47:08.960 The depression, hunger boarder and misery that characterizes ye attention. 1:47:09.080 --> 1:47:10.960 It's not a bug, it's a feature. It's supposed to 1:47:11.040 --> 1:47:14.320 force people into breaking, into signing those papers, into getting 1:47:14.360 --> 1:47:17.120 sent back to whatever they came here to escape. However, 1:47:17.160 --> 1:47:19.479 the tenacity that bought Primroses far I hadn't left her, 1:47:19.880 --> 1:47:21.720 and she made sure to let them know she was 1:47:21.880 --> 1:47:23.080 not willingly going back. 1:47:24.520 --> 1:47:26.840 Then I said, no me, I'm not going anyway because 1:47:28.200 --> 1:47:32.280 my life is in danger. Then he said, I don't 1:47:32.360 --> 1:47:36.479 care even if they kill you, I don't even care. 1:47:38.880 --> 1:47:41.760 You have to take a reform and sign if you 1:47:41.800 --> 1:47:44.840 are attacked. Then I said, okay, at listen, tell me 1:47:45.200 --> 1:47:49.320 my kiss. Cause when they teached me, was like, everyone 1:47:49.479 --> 1:47:51.240 was asking me, wait, did they catch you? 1:47:51.439 --> 1:47:52.160 I explained. 1:47:53.520 --> 1:47:57.599 The other officer was like, so did they know, I said, 1:47:57.600 --> 1:48:02.960 I don't even know the name, but that officer, he 1:48:03.080 --> 1:48:03.599 was very rude. 1:48:03.840 --> 1:48:05.559 I don't care. Do you think I cay. 1:48:05.840 --> 1:48:08.880 I don't even care whether you go big to your country, 1:48:08.920 --> 1:48:10.839 whether they killed is none of my business. 1:48:10.920 --> 1:48:11.679 I gave my family. 1:48:12.240 --> 1:48:17.839 Oh so people were they were like shouted him, those spanishes, 1:48:17.880 --> 1:48:20.519 They were even crying, shouted him. He just walk away 1:48:20.560 --> 1:48:25.000 and believe us, So people just also starting to walk away, 1:48:25.720 --> 1:48:30.600 go around. We even writing not we prove like a complaint, 1:48:30.680 --> 1:48:32.040 but no one even coming. 1:48:33.479 --> 1:48:36.200 Your person? Do they day? They just come and call me. 1:48:37.040 --> 1:48:38.200 They are going to listening. 1:48:40.520 --> 1:48:43.720 Katered spent weeks calling, emailing and demanding the premieres on 1:48:43.800 --> 1:48:46.519 Kimberly be treated according to the rites under the Floorida settlement. 1:48:47.640 --> 1:48:49.400 I wasn't sure if it was a lost cause. It 1:48:49.520 --> 1:48:52.160 was the only option we had, and I was happy 1:48:52.439 --> 1:48:55.000 to Kimberley and like so many others in that detention center, 1:48:55.160 --> 1:48:57.680 had someone to fight for her. In fact, she had 1:48:57.800 --> 1:49:00.519 hundreds of people. People all across the country had donated 1:49:00.560 --> 1:49:03.080 to her legal aid fund. Here in San Diego, people 1:49:03.120 --> 1:49:05.000 put on shows and took collections to pay for her 1:49:05.040 --> 1:49:08.120 legal fees. Listeners to this show dipped into their pockets 1:49:08.160 --> 1:49:11.599 to support Primrose and Kimberly. Thanks to them, she had 1:49:11.640 --> 1:49:14.920 a chance to get out. Like many other legal rights 1:49:14.960 --> 1:49:18.120 at Migrant's House, Flores was being widely ignored, and it's 1:49:18.200 --> 1:49:20.000 likely that Trump have men will take a run at 1:49:20.040 --> 1:49:23.400 removing it altogether soon, but for now, in this one case, 1:49:23.560 --> 1:49:26.640 it's still applied. But even once I was conceded that 1:49:26.680 --> 1:49:28.920 Primrose and Kimberly had a right to be freed, they 1:49:28.960 --> 1:49:30.120 still took their time doing it. 1:49:31.280 --> 1:49:34.880 They listening on the tenth Yeah, remember you called me 1:49:34.960 --> 1:49:38.439 the fund the food. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I called Julia exactly. 1:49:38.360 --> 1:49:39.800 Before you were going to get out that week, but 1:49:39.880 --> 1:49:40.880 they took longer and long. 1:49:40.920 --> 1:49:41.080 Good. 1:49:41.560 --> 1:49:45.920 Yeah, the release felt like a victory, but she still 1:49:45.960 --> 1:49:49.360 faced the same difficulties she had before. Primrose could not 1:49:49.479 --> 1:49:52.360 legally work. She was still in La where border patrol 1:49:52.360 --> 1:49:55.040 and a baveno but conducting violent raids and people accused 1:49:55.040 --> 1:49:57.320 of no crime other than crossing the border between ports 1:49:57.320 --> 1:50:00.320 of entry. Because it was the summer, Kimberly still hadn't 1:50:00.320 --> 1:50:05.120 received her education, So that was July and I were 1:50:05.160 --> 1:50:10.040 in August. Now, yeah, you said, you know, work permit 1:50:10.880 --> 1:50:11.920 still hasn't come, right. 1:50:12.600 --> 1:50:15.680 Yeah, They clear everything. I was supposed to get my 1:50:15.800 --> 1:50:21.920 week permit on July July, but they clear everything like 1:50:23.360 --> 1:50:28.120 new everything. They just clear everything's all studying August. 1:50:28.560 --> 1:50:35.519 Yeah, November, now there's still no permit. His case in 1:50:35.600 --> 1:50:38.920 explaining in May of this year how this system works. 1:50:39.640 --> 1:50:42.439 You have a work permit clock, right, which is another 1:50:42.479 --> 1:50:45.759 absurd thing for assils that once they file their asylum application, 1:50:45.880 --> 1:50:47.439 they have to wait one hundred and fifty days before 1:50:47.479 --> 1:50:50.599 they can apply for a work permit. And of course 1:50:50.640 --> 1:50:53.599 they're expected to be independently wealthy during those five months 1:50:53.920 --> 1:50:55.800 or you know, or star over or I don't know 1:50:55.800 --> 1:50:56.640 what they're expected to do. 1:50:57.040 --> 1:51:00.400 Yeah, rely on the generosity of others, like exactly. 1:51:00.760 --> 1:51:04.400 So if you do something like try to change venue 1:51:04.680 --> 1:51:07.080 or a motion to continue, if you do something in 1:51:07.120 --> 1:51:09.720 your case that the judge perceives as not moving the 1:51:09.760 --> 1:51:12.439 case along and rather like kind of trying to stall 1:51:12.520 --> 1:51:15.200 it or possibly pausing it or slow it down, the 1:51:15.320 --> 1:51:19.120 judge will stop the work permit clock the days and 1:51:19.400 --> 1:51:22.960 it's a whole thing. So Primroses was stopped because the 1:51:23.040 --> 1:51:28.360 judge wanted her to get an attorney. So then usually 1:51:28.439 --> 1:51:31.200 when the case is set for a final hearing, that 1:51:31.439 --> 1:51:34.519 code adjournment code they call it. We have the access 1:51:34.560 --> 1:51:36.320 to the codes and what stops the clock and what doesn't. 1:51:36.320 --> 1:51:40.240 And it always restarts the clock because you move your 1:51:40.280 --> 1:51:43.320 case along because you're setting it for trial. It's obviously 1:51:43.439 --> 1:51:45.520 moving your case along. Hers was not restarted. 1:51:46.520 --> 1:51:49.760 That video is still on Primrose's mind as well, still 1:51:49.800 --> 1:51:51.479 comes up when she goes to a new church that 1:51:51.560 --> 1:51:54.320 meets new people, even eleven months later. One of the 1:51:54.400 --> 1:51:56.360 worst days of her life still follows her. 1:51:57.920 --> 1:52:03.680 And the person who posted me on my video please, uh. 1:52:05.880 --> 1:52:08.600 I don't know how to say, but the comments I 1:52:08.720 --> 1:52:11.680 was reading this was really big. And people they just 1:52:11.920 --> 1:52:15.320 judge people without if they know their status where they 1:52:15.439 --> 1:52:22.599 come from. Yeah, I can't control them, but deep down 1:52:22.640 --> 1:52:24.599 I'm not okay. And do you see it now I'm 1:52:24.680 --> 1:52:29.680 struggling for my knee. Yeah, and the other people they 1:52:29.680 --> 1:52:36.320 will laugh at me like yeah, yeah, but it's not funny. 1:52:36.400 --> 1:52:39.080 And I wish if the person maybe she was supposed 1:52:39.080 --> 1:52:42.599 to cover my face or to cover Kimbal's face. 1:52:43.240 --> 1:52:49.600 Yeah, but I didn't want the time in La to 1:52:49.840 --> 1:52:52.800 entirely be defined by the detention. I didn't want them 1:52:52.840 --> 1:52:55.040 to think that everyone in this country doesn't want them here. 1:52:56.000 --> 1:52:58.479 I never really expect the government to make people feel 1:52:58.520 --> 1:53:00.840 welcome here. I think that's something we should do. These 1:53:00.880 --> 1:53:03.320 people are joining our communities. They risk their lives to 1:53:03.400 --> 1:53:06.200 come and live here with us, and it's us who 1:53:06.240 --> 1:53:08.920 should welcome them. We can't leave that to the whims 1:53:08.960 --> 1:53:11.200 of the electoral College. We have to do it ourselves, 1:53:11.320 --> 1:53:12.840 just like the people in Bajujiguito did. 1:53:13.960 --> 1:53:14.000 So. 1:53:14.080 --> 1:53:16.960 I drove up to La Primrose and Kim had another 1:53:17.000 --> 1:53:20.040 ice appointment, and I arranged to meet them after. I 1:53:20.080 --> 1:53:21.559 freaked out a little bit when I couldn't get through 1:53:21.600 --> 1:53:23.719 to them, but eventually I did. The Big Guy's building 1:53:23.760 --> 1:53:26.640 has no signal inside. It turns out their place in 1:53:26.800 --> 1:53:29.479 La Is where I conducted the interview you heard. I 1:53:29.560 --> 1:53:32.000 took them out for a manicure first, because it seemed 1:53:32.000 --> 1:53:33.600 like some thing that would make them feel taken care of, 1:53:34.280 --> 1:53:36.120 and I got Kim some bubblesa because she wanted to 1:53:36.160 --> 1:53:39.479 try it. Sitting in the little manicure shop, watching a 1:53:39.560 --> 1:53:42.519 Vietnamese lady take great care over their nails felt like 1:53:42.560 --> 1:53:45.880 another glimpse of the communities were supplied to build where 1:53:45.880 --> 1:53:47.519 people from all over the world can come and be 1:53:47.600 --> 1:53:51.479 safe by this time, I hadn't heard from Noemi for months, 1:53:51.920 --> 1:53:54.000 and I started to realize I might not ever again. 1:53:54.840 --> 1:53:56.680 So I decided I wasn't going to let Kimberle live 1:53:56.760 --> 1:53:59.320 so close to Disneyland and not go. One of my 1:53:59.360 --> 1:54:01.760 colleagues has foundamily who worked there. We got Primrose and 1:54:01.800 --> 1:54:04.559 Kimberly day passes. It felt really nice just to give 1:54:04.560 --> 1:54:06.280 them a day to be a family and not to worry. 1:54:07.120 --> 1:54:09.720 I didn't go with them and record. I wanted them 1:54:09.760 --> 1:54:11.479 to enjoy the day on their own, and by all 1:54:11.479 --> 1:54:14.920 accounts they did. Primosh be fixtored of them, smiling out 1:54:14.960 --> 1:54:17.679 said various riots and exhibit, and I felt a little 1:54:17.720 --> 1:54:20.360 bit better to help make someone's American dream a little 1:54:20.439 --> 1:54:24.320 less of a nightmare. Tomorrow, I want to talk more 1:54:24.360 --> 1:54:26.800 about welcoming people in our communities and taking care of them, 1:54:27.360 --> 1:54:29.200 because now more than ever, I think that's what we 1:54:29.320 --> 1:55:05.080 have to do. The week before you're hearing this, on 1:55:05.160 --> 1:55:08.360 a beautiful southern California winter morning, I met some friends 1:55:08.400 --> 1:55:11.440 in a parking lot near the border. We hopped into 1:55:11.480 --> 1:55:13.480 our trucks and drove along dirt road so we reached 1:55:13.520 --> 1:55:16.880 a pull up. Once there, we threw on packs and 1:55:17.000 --> 1:55:20.839 hiked straight up a steep hillside. Even in late November, 1:55:20.880 --> 1:55:23.320 the south facing slope was hot. We're all sweating. By 1:55:23.360 --> 1:55:25.640 the time we reached the GPS location we've been given, 1:55:26.360 --> 1:55:29.040 it wasn't hard to spot a dark patch on the 1:55:29.120 --> 1:55:32.360 landscape where someone's remains had returned to the earth. One 1:55:32.400 --> 1:55:34.800 friend had carried a heavy wooden cross up the mountain. 1:55:50.560 --> 1:55:52.880 We dug a hole in the rocky ground and then 1:55:52.960 --> 1:55:56.520 placed the white wooden cross in it. Silently, we filled 1:55:56.520 --> 1:55:59.160 the whole back up, stamped on the dirt until the 1:55:59.200 --> 1:56:03.280 cross stood right up. Then we decorated it with marawgolds 1:56:03.320 --> 1:56:07.720 and seashells and dried flower petals, doing the best we could. 1:56:08.880 --> 1:56:11.720 One friend carefully picked the petals off the flowers laid 1:56:11.760 --> 1:56:14.800 them on the arms of the cross. Another sprinkled poppy 1:56:14.840 --> 1:56:18.080 seeds into the ground. We stood in silence for a while, 1:56:18.720 --> 1:56:21.000 but the construction of the secondary border wall didn't halt 1:56:21.040 --> 1:56:25.320 for a minute in silence, and then together we paid 1:56:25.360 --> 1:56:29.560 our respects to Graciela Sonton Gormez Hernandez, whose last moments 1:56:29.560 --> 1:56:31.800 were spent looking at the same sky we were looking at, 1:56:32.640 --> 1:56:35.360 gazing down onto the two border walls that were built 1:56:35.400 --> 1:56:39.800 to separate us from her. She died in September in 1:56:39.880 --> 1:56:42.720 the heat wave. The same month or year before, I'd 1:56:42.720 --> 1:56:44.560 had to call nine one one for several migrants with 1:56:44.640 --> 1:56:48.520 heat stroke. I'd come across she died, a friend told me, 1:56:49.200 --> 1:56:52.600 with her clothes folded next to her, sheltering under a bush. 1:56:53.760 --> 1:56:56.040 Looking from the place we erected the lonely little cross, 1:56:56.120 --> 1:56:58.680 that was all we had left remember her. I could 1:56:58.680 --> 1:57:02.080 see four border patrols of ail at Santana's. She was 1:57:02.240 --> 1:57:05.160 just a few hundred yards from the wall from the road, 1:57:06.040 --> 1:57:08.160 but it took weeks for anyone to find her. 1:57:09.120 --> 1:57:25.959 Gracila Gomez presently, Gracila Sion Gomez LANs very Gracila Gormez 1:57:26.360 --> 1:57:27.920 LANs very same. 1:57:32.840 --> 1:57:35.960 Obviously, we arrived too late to help, but we arrived 1:57:36.000 --> 1:57:37.920 soon enough to ensure that least in death, she was 1:57:37.960 --> 1:57:40.200 afforded to dignity the world has denied her in life. 1:57:41.440 --> 1:57:43.880 Then I strapped half of fifty gallon barrels my backpack 1:57:43.920 --> 1:57:54.640 frame where my friends carried slabs to water bottles. As 1:57:54.720 --> 1:57:57.600 we walked. A construction vehicle above us reeled holes into 1:57:57.640 --> 1:57:59.840 the earth for pylons that would hold a second thirty 1:58:00.080 --> 1:58:03.560 at wall. On the sixty degree slope above the vehicle, 1:58:03.720 --> 1:58:08.000 a helicopter flew around, and then it flew back underneath it. 1:58:08.080 --> 1:58:10.000 We were at the date on water bottles and threw 1:58:10.000 --> 1:58:14.320 them in a barrel. I tried to dain all. 1:58:16.280 --> 1:58:22.400 See okay. 1:58:23.280 --> 1:58:25.520 Doing this for years, we said goodbye to a fair 1:58:25.560 --> 1:58:27.120 share of people who he never got to say hello 1:58:27.280 --> 1:58:31.600 to and whose faces we never got to see. Last summer, 1:58:31.600 --> 1:58:33.600 I helped search to the remains of a migrant who 1:58:33.600 --> 1:58:35.720 had passed away in a canyon deep in the desert. 1:58:36.520 --> 1:58:39.280 Every time I do this fills me with a deep sadness, 1:58:40.360 --> 1:58:42.280 especially with all the friends from the jungle who I've 1:58:42.320 --> 1:58:45.360 lost touch with since then. It could be easy to 1:58:45.400 --> 1:58:47.080 look at everything I've laid out in this series and 1:58:47.160 --> 1:58:47.839 feel hopeless. 1:58:48.320 --> 1:58:49.240 But I don't want you to. 1:58:50.440 --> 1:58:53.360 It could be easy to feel afraid as well, because 1:58:53.440 --> 1:58:55.959 now is the time that caring about other people is dangerous. 1:58:56.800 --> 1:58:59.800 It's possible currently for some folks to keep their heads 1:58:59.800 --> 1:59:03.040 stay and try and keep themselves safe, but to can 1:59:03.080 --> 1:59:05.680 find their actions to are angry posting on social media. 1:59:06.320 --> 1:59:08.920 But our politics shouldn't be about anger. It should be 1:59:08.960 --> 1:59:12.280 about love. Now more than ever, it's important to remember 1:59:12.360 --> 1:59:15.400 that we don't act on our love and our solidarity 1:59:15.480 --> 1:59:18.320 with angry tweets. We act on it by taking care 1:59:18.400 --> 1:59:22.840 of people. However many walls they build, however many masked 1:59:22.920 --> 1:59:25.960 men with guns they send. I don't believe it's within 1:59:26.000 --> 1:59:27.880 the power of the state to stop people caring about 1:59:27.880 --> 1:59:30.960 each other, and I hope that that care compels people 1:59:31.080 --> 1:59:34.520 to do something. In fact, I think seeing so much 1:59:34.600 --> 1:59:37.240 cruelty makes us all realize that it's up to us 1:59:37.360 --> 1:59:40.959 to care for one another. People have cared for Primrose 1:59:41.000 --> 1:59:43.520 and kim in all kinds of ways since they came here, 1:59:44.520 --> 1:59:46.200 and today we're going to hear from some of them. 1:59:46.960 --> 1:59:50.040 Friends bought Kimberly's school books where they were stuck in Mexico. 1:59:50.640 --> 1:59:52.880 Some other folks put on a burlesque performance here in 1:59:52.920 --> 1:59:56.000 San Diego to raise money for her lawyer. Hundreds of 1:59:56.080 --> 1:59:58.120 you reach into your pockets to help her pay for 1:59:58.320 --> 2:00:03.080 legal living expenses. When the state, both under Biden and 2:00:03.280 --> 2:00:07.120 under Trump, made her of Kimberly feel unwelcome, you didn't. 2:00:08.880 --> 2:00:10.720 I've carried my fair share of water into the desert 2:00:10.800 --> 2:00:14.560 under Biden administration as well. It was Biden's policies that 2:00:14.680 --> 2:00:18.120 left little Miomi stuck in Mexico, not Trumps. It was 2:00:18.200 --> 2:00:21.040 Biden's policies to detain people in the open air and 2:00:21.160 --> 2:00:24.680 left them with no food or water or shelter. And 2:00:24.800 --> 2:00:26.560 it was everyday people like my friends and I who 2:00:26.640 --> 2:00:28.960 fed them and sheltered them and took care of them. 2:00:30.080 --> 2:00:32.880 We took donations and dived into dumpsters to grab tents, 2:00:33.480 --> 2:00:36.120 who worked hard every day to build shelters, cook food, 2:00:36.160 --> 2:00:38.360 and give away clothing so that people could feel welcome 2:00:38.440 --> 2:00:42.000 and safe here. Not a single elected official gave out 2:00:42.040 --> 2:00:45.160 a single sandwich, much less made one in the months 2:00:45.200 --> 2:00:47.600 that thousands of people were detained outdoors in a cumber 2:00:47.640 --> 2:00:52.560 and salisigral. But people from churches, goodwaras latterday Saints people 2:00:52.720 --> 2:00:55.280 and Quakers as what as a whole lot of anarchists 2:00:55.320 --> 2:00:58.760 and crosspunks and just desert people with no particular politics did. 2:01:00.000 --> 2:01:01.600 I'm not saying this to pat Us on the back. 2:01:01.680 --> 2:01:03.240 I don't think any of us really wanted to be 2:01:03.360 --> 2:01:06.760 mentioned at all. Like many of us, some of my 2:01:06.840 --> 2:01:10.600 happiest memories were the days we fed strangers, then sat 2:01:10.680 --> 2:01:14.520 around fire, sharing stories and sometimes songs. Since then, I've 2:01:14.560 --> 2:01:16.640 been privileged to share the joys and struggles some of 2:01:16.720 --> 2:01:19.640 those people faced in their new lives here. I've attended 2:01:19.680 --> 2:01:22.240 their weddings. I've tried to help them understand that by 2:01:22.320 --> 2:01:24.720 action accents, but I've helped them come to turn to 2:01:24.800 --> 2:01:26.640 the fact you simply can't get around large parts of 2:01:26.720 --> 2:01:29.960 this country without a car. I'm saying this because I 2:01:30.000 --> 2:01:33.080 think it's important that whatever happens after this current administration, 2:01:33.840 --> 2:01:36.400 we can't ever go back to the way things were before. 2:01:37.320 --> 2:01:39.640 We can't let migrants to be invisible in our communities. 2:01:40.040 --> 2:01:43.560 We can't let them keep dying at the border. Let's 2:01:43.600 --> 2:01:47.320 talk about what carying looks like in Primrose's case. This 2:01:47.480 --> 2:01:50.080 time last year, I just released my Darien Gap podcast, 2:01:50.920 --> 2:01:52.920 and a few weeks later I received a direct message 2:01:52.920 --> 2:01:56.040 about my Patreon newsletter. It was from a guy called Matt. 2:01:56.760 --> 2:01:59.800 My name is Matt. I'm just a normal person who 2:02:00.040 --> 2:02:01.200 listens to a lot of podcasts. 2:02:01.960 --> 2:02:03.400 I didn't know him, and he didn't know me, but 2:02:03.520 --> 2:02:04.960 he listened to the podcast I made. 2:02:05.760 --> 2:02:09.200 I can still very vividly remember where I was when 2:02:09.520 --> 2:02:13.000 when I listened to that, which was I was coming 2:02:13.120 --> 2:02:15.600 back from a dirt biking trip in Michigan, and so 2:02:15.720 --> 2:02:19.240 I had a seven hour drive, and I was like, 2:02:19.400 --> 2:02:24.280 oh cool, here's a three hour podcast that I listened to. 2:02:25.040 --> 2:02:27.080 And then I started listening to it, and then I 2:02:27.200 --> 2:02:29.640 was just like I got into that mode where I 2:02:29.800 --> 2:02:32.600 was just like I couldn't not finish it, you know, 2:02:32.800 --> 2:02:35.720 I was like absolutely hooked and just needed needed to 2:02:35.800 --> 2:02:37.440 get all you needed to get all the way to 2:02:37.480 --> 2:02:41.240 the end, and was just really really moved by the 2:02:41.280 --> 2:02:41.680 whole thing. 2:02:42.880 --> 2:02:45.560 Like many Americans until ready to be late in Biden administration, 2:02:46.120 --> 2:02:48.640 that knew about immigration, but he hadn't really grappled with 2:02:48.720 --> 2:02:52.240 the fact that what secure borders means is killing innocent 2:02:52.320 --> 2:02:56.440 people in the jungle, in the desert and everywhere in between. 2:02:57.320 --> 2:03:00.680 That's how deterrence works, That's how it's post to work. 2:03:02.040 --> 2:03:06.320 Like I didn't realize that that was like intentional, and 2:03:06.400 --> 2:03:08.720 then hearing you know, hearing hearing yours, I was just 2:03:08.760 --> 2:03:13.280 sort of like, oh, right, Like just the fact that 2:03:13.400 --> 2:03:18.880 people would go to such a just such lengths of 2:03:19.320 --> 2:03:25.080 of danger on a journey just across a continent and 2:03:25.600 --> 2:03:29.320 knowing that once they get here, they're not even welcome. Right, 2:03:29.400 --> 2:03:31.560 We're going to intentionally put up this like kind of 2:03:31.640 --> 2:03:34.960 life or death obstacle. Course, I kept thinking about it, 2:03:35.040 --> 2:03:37.400 and the next day I was like, let me like 2:03:38.120 --> 2:03:40.000 see if you've done anything else on and I found 2:03:40.040 --> 2:03:42.160 a couple of your couple of your other your other 2:03:42.200 --> 2:03:44.960 episodes on it, and I was like, wow, this, this 2:03:45.200 --> 2:03:47.800 is this is wild. And that was you know you 2:03:48.080 --> 2:03:51.440 you were You're talking about the open air detention in 2:03:51.560 --> 2:03:55.400 the Hakumba area, and and I was like, this is crazy, 2:03:55.640 --> 2:03:58.640 Like this is just happening just right outside of San Diego. 2:03:58.720 --> 2:03:59.560 I mean, it's just wild. 2:04:00.600 --> 2:04:02.560 Matt felt like now that he knew this, he couldn't 2:04:02.680 --> 2:04:05.440 not do something about it, so he took some of 2:04:05.520 --> 2:04:08.160 his vacation time at work and came to southern California. 2:04:08.960 --> 2:04:11.840 The thing, though, was crazy is seeing all the equipment, 2:04:12.160 --> 2:04:14.960 you know, the equipment, if you can call that, left 2:04:15.040 --> 2:04:18.600 behind by the people traveling through these places where it's 2:04:18.680 --> 2:04:24.000 just like normal shoes and just like cheap Walmart backpacks 2:04:24.320 --> 2:04:29.240 and just you know, the just basic stuff that you 2:04:29.360 --> 2:04:31.400 would just like where to school. 2:04:32.160 --> 2:04:34.920 Matt joined friends of mine in the mountains, carrying water 2:04:35.040 --> 2:04:37.160 and helping with some techi shues we've been wondering about. 2:04:38.080 --> 2:04:40.120 He saw the wall, and he saw the damage. He 2:04:40.200 --> 2:04:43.000 does he saw the difficult terrain people have to cross 2:04:43.120 --> 2:04:44.800 just to get a chance to ask for help here, 2:04:45.520 --> 2:04:48.000 the ways they have to risk their lives even after 2:04:48.120 --> 2:04:50.720 they make it to the USA. He also got to 2:04:50.800 --> 2:04:52.960 experience the where they're helping other people helps us. 2:04:53.720 --> 2:04:56.240 As I was heading back home, I definitely had this 2:04:56.640 --> 2:05:01.960 feeling about like like way less disc bear getting together 2:05:02.200 --> 2:05:06.680 with people to just do something, to just do something 2:05:06.760 --> 2:05:09.680 useful to help people, even if it's just like in 2:05:09.800 --> 2:05:14.080 a tiny way, like even if somehow it doesn't help, 2:05:14.160 --> 2:05:17.560 but it's like it probably will. But importantly doing it 2:05:17.640 --> 2:05:21.240 with other people it made me feel a lot better. 2:05:21.760 --> 2:05:25.600 It made me not feel so like just everything is fucked, 2:05:25.840 --> 2:05:28.800 like the world is descending into fascism or when there's 2:05:28.840 --> 2:05:32.120 nothing I can do about it. It's like there are 2:05:32.400 --> 2:05:35.160 a lot of people who want to help. Doing stuff 2:05:35.240 --> 2:05:35.800 with them. 2:05:35.840 --> 2:05:39.840 Is like is good. Soon after, like all of us, 2:05:40.160 --> 2:05:42.240 he saw the board it bringing its violence into cities 2:05:42.240 --> 2:05:43.280 across the United States. 2:05:43.800 --> 2:05:48.560 I mean, like just masked federal agents, we assume, mostly 2:05:49.120 --> 2:05:52.880 refusing to identify themselves, just randomly picking people up. I mean, 2:05:53.120 --> 2:05:59.200 it's crazy and it's just a I mean I literally 2:05:59.240 --> 2:06:01.400 am a loss for work. I mean it's just it's 2:06:01.600 --> 2:06:07.640 so the opposite of what America is all about, straight 2:06:07.720 --> 2:06:10.840 up like fascism. Like I just I never thought I 2:06:10.840 --> 2:06:14.160 would live through something like this. I always just thought 2:06:14.240 --> 2:06:16.440 that's the kind of thing that happens in other countries, 2:06:16.800 --> 2:06:17.000 you know. 2:06:17.880 --> 2:06:19.800 I guess a lot of us thought that. A lot 2:06:19.840 --> 2:06:21.840 of us probably thought this kind of state violence was 2:06:21.880 --> 2:06:25.840 confined to other places and other times. We wondered, perhaps 2:06:25.880 --> 2:06:28.760 absent mindedly, what we might do in those places and times. 2:06:29.440 --> 2:06:31.720 For years, as a historian and a reporter, have thought 2:06:31.720 --> 2:06:34.600 about them, read about them, visited them. Now I'm living 2:06:34.640 --> 2:06:34.920 in them. 2:06:35.720 --> 2:06:38.360 It's always just sort of like in the same way 2:06:38.440 --> 2:06:40.840 that you would think, what would happen if I was 2:06:40.920 --> 2:06:44.720 in this I don't know, movie, Like it's not real, Just. 2:06:44.760 --> 2:06:48.000 Think like, oh, what if I was Jason Bourne Matt 2:06:48.080 --> 2:06:50.200 Night stayed in touch one day. He was in La 2:06:50.240 --> 2:06:53.040 owned business and I mentioned I've been helping Primos navigate 2:06:53.080 --> 2:06:55.720 the mass transit nightmare that is Los Angeles so she 2:06:55.760 --> 2:06:58.040 could get to her ice appointment. He oftener to stop 2:06:58.120 --> 2:07:00.720 buy if you needed a ride anywhere connected them. He 2:07:00.800 --> 2:07:02.560 saw her place and he offered to help I guess 2:07:02.600 --> 2:07:04.800 with furniture as well, then it was time for him 2:07:04.840 --> 2:07:08.640 to fly home every day like I do. He had 2:07:08.640 --> 2:07:11.720 to worry about someone he knew being snatched. The Florida 2:07:11.760 --> 2:07:15.400 Settlement doesn't stop ICE from redetaining people, and in LA 2:07:15.480 --> 2:07:17.520 they seem to be detaining anyone they could any way 2:07:17.560 --> 2:07:20.280 they could. Kim had been afraid to go out now 2:07:20.520 --> 2:07:23.080 because she didn't want to go back to detention. So 2:07:23.200 --> 2:07:26.640 once again, Matt decided he wanted to do something, and 2:07:26.760 --> 2:07:28.480 he asked if Kim and Primrose might like to come 2:07:28.520 --> 2:07:30.760 and stay with him on the East coast. That's not 2:07:30.840 --> 2:07:31.920 an easy choice to make. 2:07:32.720 --> 2:07:32.760 No. 2:07:32.840 --> 2:07:34.560 No only does it mean sharing your space, it also 2:07:34.640 --> 2:07:37.680 means taking yourself out of the safe group and accepting 2:07:37.720 --> 2:07:39.920 that the states I of Sarron might fall on you. Now, 2:07:40.480 --> 2:07:40.640 you know. 2:07:40.720 --> 2:07:43.400 I talked it over with my wife and we were like, 2:07:44.560 --> 2:07:47.200 you know, both wanted to do this, and but you know, 2:07:47.320 --> 2:07:51.720 we had to acknowledge like it might mean that like 2:07:53.000 --> 2:07:55.560 these assholes and masks show up at our house, like 2:07:55.640 --> 2:07:59.560 where our kids are, and are like gonna haul away 2:08:00.440 --> 2:08:05.080 this family. That might happen in like right over there. 2:08:05.640 --> 2:08:07.320 I mean, I don't like it, but I. 2:08:08.800 --> 2:08:09.160 I don't know. 2:08:09.280 --> 2:08:12.360 I've just I feel like you gotta do just gotta 2:08:12.400 --> 2:08:13.280 do something, you. 2:08:13.320 --> 2:08:16.320 Know, y end. He says, it wasn't a hard decision 2:08:16.360 --> 2:08:16.640 to make. 2:08:17.200 --> 2:08:18.880 I mean it was a lot easier because my wife 2:08:19.000 --> 2:08:21.240 was actually just like one hundred percent let's do it. 2:08:21.440 --> 2:08:22.920 And I was like, well, hold on a second, look, 2:08:23.120 --> 2:08:27.080 we should at least think through the outcome. She's like, 2:08:27.080 --> 2:08:29.120 I don't care whatever, just do it. 2:08:30.120 --> 2:08:32.600 Like a lot of people, Matt had always done things 2:08:32.640 --> 2:08:34.920 to help people, but nothing like this, nothing that directly 2:08:35.000 --> 2:08:36.800 put him in between someone who needed to be kept 2:08:36.840 --> 2:08:38.800 safe and the people who didn't want them to be safe. 2:08:39.640 --> 2:08:42.000 Yeah, I mean, nothing is dangerous. 2:08:42.280 --> 2:08:42.720 I mean. 2:08:44.200 --> 2:08:49.720 Charity stuff, but you know, sometimes with time, but usually 2:08:49.920 --> 2:08:52.520 just like giving money to people to you know, who 2:08:52.640 --> 2:08:55.800 need it or whatever. But you know, this is definitely 2:08:55.960 --> 2:09:01.960 the most like direct involvement to help someone who needs it. 2:09:02.440 --> 2:09:05.160 Certainly is the first time that I've exposed my family 2:09:05.320 --> 2:09:06.800 to any thing like this. 2:09:18.480 --> 2:09:21.400 So one day this autumn, Primos and Kimberley said goodbye 2:09:21.440 --> 2:09:24.240 to Los Angeles, got on a plane, flew to the 2:09:24.280 --> 2:09:24.800 East coast. 2:09:25.760 --> 2:09:28.560 I thought I was waiting at the right spot, but 2:09:28.640 --> 2:09:32.360 they let them out at a different there, so they 2:09:32.400 --> 2:09:34.760 actually walked past me. In the airport. They didn't even 2:09:34.760 --> 2:09:38.680 see it, but I eventually figured it out. Luckily, the 2:09:38.760 --> 2:09:41.600 airport is not that big, and so I could just 2:09:41.680 --> 2:09:44.280 sort of walk, just walk all the baggage. Claym Mary 2:09:44.320 --> 2:09:45.200 and I eventually found them. 2:09:46.080 --> 2:09:48.840 Then they went for sushi, then for ice cream, a 2:09:48.920 --> 2:09:52.400 perfect suburban stripmall American evening, the sort of evening people 2:09:52.480 --> 2:09:55.760 crossed jungles and deserts be able to enjoy, the sort 2:09:55.800 --> 2:09:57.440 of evening the hundreds of people I met in the 2:09:57.520 --> 2:10:00.680 jungle will never be able to enjoy. Of course, it's 2:10:00.720 --> 2:10:02.440 hard to sit in a cold stone and talk about 2:10:02.480 --> 2:10:05.760 the things people endure to come here. That's just sometimes 2:10:05.760 --> 2:10:07.920 it's still difficult to even comprehend what his new friends 2:10:07.960 --> 2:10:08.440 had been through. 2:10:09.160 --> 2:10:11.800 It's hard to answer, like you're asking me a good 2:10:11.880 --> 2:10:13.720 question about, like, well, what was it like et and 2:10:13.760 --> 2:10:17.960 it's like the difference the distance between, like our shared 2:10:18.040 --> 2:10:22.200 experience is so vast it's still often almost doesn't seem real. 2:10:22.840 --> 2:10:25.840 I've had that same thought. It's hard to hear stories 2:10:25.880 --> 2:10:28.360 from migrants and really think of them as human experiences, 2:10:28.480 --> 2:10:31.920 not just stories. That's why I go into the mountains 2:10:32.120 --> 2:10:34.760 and the desert. That's why I spent a decade asking 2:10:34.800 --> 2:10:37.600 gettus to send me to this daddy in. I didn't 2:10:37.600 --> 2:10:40.040 think I could understand migrants journeys if I hadn't experienced 2:10:40.040 --> 2:10:42.440 a little part of them. And I don't think we 2:10:42.480 --> 2:10:44.480 should write about migrants and not write about what they 2:10:44.640 --> 2:10:46.960 go through to get to a strip mall sushi place. 2:10:48.160 --> 2:10:50.960 Of course, Primrose isn't done with her interaction with immigration 2:10:51.040 --> 2:10:54.600 authorities yet. They've had visits from ICE in her new home, 2:10:54.920 --> 2:10:56.840 but not from enforcement removal operations. 2:10:57.360 --> 2:10:59.800 I mean, like they know where she lives. We told them, 2:10:59.800 --> 2:11:03.280 are she lives, so like she lives in my house, 2:11:03.400 --> 2:11:06.600 so you know, yeah, they might. 2:11:07.160 --> 2:11:07.520 I don't know. 2:11:07.680 --> 2:11:13.240 I mean, yeah, I guess I'm like not as afraid 2:11:13.480 --> 2:11:18.360 of that. I have to say that the ICE people 2:11:18.720 --> 2:11:26.120 in seem just like a bunch of cheery folks. Like 2:11:27.200 --> 2:11:33.080 it's seems pretty different than I mean, like I met 2:11:33.200 --> 2:11:38.200 many of them, yeah, part of this process, and they 2:11:38.240 --> 2:11:42.960 were not the like you know, plate carriers and guns guys. 2:11:43.200 --> 2:11:46.600 They were just like the you know, they work in 2:11:46.680 --> 2:11:50.520 the office and decide whether you get to move here 2:11:50.680 --> 2:11:53.920 or not, you know, yeah, yeah, and they were like 2:11:55.400 --> 2:11:57.680 very friendly and downright helpful. 2:11:58.680 --> 2:12:01.160 Promotes your settling in it. That's place now. But it's 2:12:01.240 --> 2:12:04.800 Matt explained, the struggle isn't over yet now, like. 2:12:04.920 --> 2:12:09.640 Our energy is more on how do we help her 2:12:09.800 --> 2:12:14.640 make her case because she has an asylum case that 2:12:15.280 --> 2:12:18.040 you know, she she needs to win and it's you know, 2:12:18.440 --> 2:12:22.120 I'm not a lawyer, but wow, sounds like what asylum 2:12:22.280 --> 2:12:26.800 is for literally running from a hostile government that she 2:12:27.040 --> 2:12:33.480 was protesting and was going to jail and torture her. Like, 2:12:34.600 --> 2:12:36.800 what what is asylum for? 2:12:37.000 --> 2:12:40.200 If not for that? Of course, interacting with the asylum 2:12:40.280 --> 2:12:43.600 system has shown that some of its absurdities, like the 2:12:43.680 --> 2:12:46.520 work permit clock for our bus rides to riverside, the 2:12:46.720 --> 2:12:50.040 endless changing regulation. So one has to navigate or trying 2:12:50.080 --> 2:12:52.600 to survive without the ability to legally work. 2:12:53.200 --> 2:12:58.680 In what way can you do this legally without some 2:12:59.520 --> 2:13:04.200 you know, group helping you, without like just somebody saying fine, 2:13:04.240 --> 2:13:06.640 I will take you and pay for your living expenses. 2:13:07.360 --> 2:13:11.280 What is the legal way to like seek asylum? You 2:13:11.400 --> 2:13:13.680 come here, they put you in jail, You stay in jail, 2:13:13.760 --> 2:13:18.640 which is fucking jail. Yeah they let you out of jail. Good, hooray, 2:13:18.720 --> 2:13:21.960 we're out of jail, and now you're homeless. Yeah, you 2:13:22.320 --> 2:13:26.600 have no possessions and no ability to legally work. At 2:13:26.720 --> 2:13:30.120 least let them work. I mean, come on, like, just 2:13:31.320 --> 2:13:34.960 let them get a legal job. That's just like the 2:13:35.480 --> 2:13:40.480 sort of bureaucracy version of the forcing people across the desert. 2:13:41.040 --> 2:13:43.440 It's like, well, okay, you won't die in the desert 2:13:43.800 --> 2:13:47.080 in this one. In this one, you will die or 2:13:47.200 --> 2:13:51.720 you will suffer under homelessness. More deterrence. You know, everyone 2:13:51.760 --> 2:13:54.400 always says, oh, what I support immigration, just got to 2:13:54.440 --> 2:13:56.360 be legal. You gotta do it the right way. But 2:13:56.440 --> 2:13:58.480 they have no idea what they're talking about, Like what 2:13:58.680 --> 2:14:02.440 is the right way. I believe everyone who says that 2:14:02.600 --> 2:14:04.040 has no idea what the right way is. 2:14:05.680 --> 2:14:08.520 Changing that making a law's line up with what anyone 2:14:08.600 --> 2:14:12.480 would see is basic decency isn't coming anytime soon. In 2:14:12.560 --> 2:14:14.800 the meantime, they have to navigate the asylum system. As 2:14:14.840 --> 2:14:18.360 many contradictions. Primo has never got any follow up care 2:14:18.520 --> 2:14:21.160 for her leg injury. The only way she could access 2:14:21.320 --> 2:14:23.880 care in her new home was once again totally impractical 2:14:23.960 --> 2:14:27.160 for someone without a car, just another example of how 2:14:27.200 --> 2:14:29.280 the system sets people up to suffer and fail. 2:14:30.200 --> 2:14:33.080 There's no way to get her to the doctor. Well, okay, 2:14:33.280 --> 2:14:38.480 there is a way, a way. Technically, we could drive 2:14:38.960 --> 2:14:42.680 like an hour and twenty minutes way out to this 2:14:43.040 --> 2:14:47.520 place that like as a thing with the ice that 2:14:47.680 --> 2:14:52.080 they will say like, well that's your approved like medical provider, 2:14:53.160 --> 2:14:57.280 Like I'm not gonna drive quarantine is each way to 2:14:58.080 --> 2:15:01.240 just do some minor thing. Yeah, so we pay out 2:15:01.280 --> 2:15:04.600 a pocket. So we go to a doctor and we 2:15:04.760 --> 2:15:08.240 go here's the problem we have. We don't have insurance. 2:15:09.040 --> 2:15:11.480 Let's get this done for as little money as possible, 2:15:11.520 --> 2:15:13.879 because in the United States, if you don't have insurance, 2:15:14.960 --> 2:15:19.320 it is going to costume. Yeah, it loves and mercifully. 2:15:20.760 --> 2:15:23.560 My wife and I both know a number of doctors 2:15:24.360 --> 2:15:28.000 that we can sort of run ideas by, and if 2:15:28.040 --> 2:15:30.120 we didn't have that, like, I don't know what we 2:15:30.160 --> 2:15:32.720 would do. It would not be good. I mean, well 2:15:33.040 --> 2:15:34.520 I know what we do. We would drive an hour 2:15:34.560 --> 2:15:36.240 and twenty minutes to the place and we would just 2:15:36.320 --> 2:15:42.000 be like, okay, doctor help. But like, because you know, 2:15:42.560 --> 2:15:46.440 we have connections and we are also willing to pay 2:15:46.520 --> 2:15:49.080 a little bit out of pocket. She needed to get 2:15:49.120 --> 2:15:53.560 some medicine. Medicine is super expensive. Yeah, so you go 2:15:53.680 --> 2:15:56.360 to the CBS and you're like, well, you know, oh 2:15:56.400 --> 2:15:58.280 we don't have your insurance on file, and we're like, 2:15:58.840 --> 2:16:03.200 I know, but how much is this going to really cost? 2:16:03.400 --> 2:16:05.960 And dude, drugs are so expensive? 2:16:06.400 --> 2:16:07.840 Like it's just. 2:16:09.440 --> 2:16:11.040 What are what are those people supposed to do? 2:16:11.840 --> 2:16:14.840 It's brokensistent and it's not one we can really rely 2:16:14.960 --> 2:16:16.720 on government to change whoever was in office. 2:16:17.360 --> 2:16:22.200 The Democrats don't have a great answer for this either. 2:16:22.760 --> 2:16:25.480 I wish they did. I mean, I will still vote 2:16:25.480 --> 2:16:30.360 for them because they're at least less bad. You know, 2:16:30.960 --> 2:16:33.640 what are the choices do you have? It's like, if 2:16:33.680 --> 2:16:36.280 there was a better party, I would be that one 2:16:36.760 --> 2:16:39.360 that I mean, if they had a chance of winning, right, yeah, 2:16:40.920 --> 2:16:43.080 no other party has a chance of winning. So yeah, man, 2:16:43.080 --> 2:16:45.879 I'm a Democrat and I will help the Democrats try 2:16:45.920 --> 2:16:50.960 to win elections. They push it in the direction that 2:16:51.080 --> 2:16:53.880 it needs to go. But the Democrats are part of 2:16:53.920 --> 2:16:59.959 the problem. I mean, like they're not radically changing policy. 2:17:00.280 --> 2:17:05.080 Is that would change this thing we've been talking about 2:17:05.080 --> 2:17:05.640 for the last hour. 2:17:17.360 --> 2:17:20.000 When I first moved to the US, George W. Bush 2:17:20.040 --> 2:17:23.039 as president. Soon after I got hi, Obama was elected 2:17:23.200 --> 2:17:26.320 and it was Thanksgiving. I didn't know much about Thanksgiving, 2:17:26.360 --> 2:17:28.600 and I didn't have much time for history that overlooks 2:17:28.600 --> 2:17:31.039 set a little lonely list them anyway. But the day 2:17:31.040 --> 2:17:32.760 before where it's riding my bike down the coast and 2:17:32.840 --> 2:17:35.199 I ran into some folks who were also riding their bikes. 2:17:35.879 --> 2:17:37.520 They asked what plans I had for the next day, 2:17:37.520 --> 2:17:38.840 and I told them I was just going to ride 2:17:38.879 --> 2:17:41.600 my bike all day and that's what I like to do. They, 2:17:41.720 --> 2:17:44.000 having just met me, invited me into their home the 2:17:44.040 --> 2:17:46.240 next day. They fed me and we talked for hours 2:17:46.240 --> 2:17:49.400 and became friends. A decade and a half later, on 2:17:49.480 --> 2:17:52.520 the night before Thanksgiving, my friends cooked as many beans 2:17:52.560 --> 2:17:54.560 as they could fit in their giant pot that we 2:17:54.640 --> 2:17:56.680 boiled above a propane burn and made from half a 2:17:56.760 --> 2:17:59.959 beer cake and the cold of the desert, some Curtish 2:18:00.080 --> 2:18:02.200 guys helped us ladle out scoops of hot stew for 2:18:02.360 --> 2:18:05.520 hundreds of people. I still don't go in for set 2:18:05.600 --> 2:18:08.120 like Colneliism very much, but I felt thankful to be 2:18:08.160 --> 2:18:11.560 in a position where I could welcome people now. That 2:18:11.680 --> 2:18:13.600 same year, on Christmas Eve, I was sitting on the 2:18:13.640 --> 2:18:15.920 tailgate of a pickup in the desert, kicking my feet 2:18:16.000 --> 2:18:18.720 so my toes wouldn't burn with cold. I spent the 2:18:18.879 --> 2:18:21.080 entire day building shelters for people out in the desert 2:18:21.640 --> 2:18:23.720 left therefore up to a week by the Biden administration. 2:18:25.160 --> 2:18:27.800 We'd handed out all our food again, but some folks 2:18:27.840 --> 2:18:29.600 who'd been taking care of their kids are trying to 2:18:29.640 --> 2:18:31.960 find a warm place how the desert went to sleep, 2:18:32.040 --> 2:18:34.680 had missed out on eating. So I'd find a few 2:18:34.720 --> 2:18:37.240 boxes of htrs, which are kind of like a worse 2:18:37.320 --> 2:18:40.440 but vegan version of MREs, and I took them from 2:18:40.480 --> 2:18:42.240 the truck and went over to the people who had 2:18:42.280 --> 2:18:45.000 missed dinner. They heated them up somehow on a piece 2:18:45.040 --> 2:18:47.400 of scrap metal over the fire. I can't really remember 2:18:47.560 --> 2:18:51.279 them thinking it was really janky. I struggled to describe 2:18:51.360 --> 2:18:53.320 how special it felt for me to be able to 2:18:53.400 --> 2:18:55.360 share a little of the welcome I received with other 2:18:55.400 --> 2:18:58.960 people like Matt. I feel more hopeful knowing that not 2:18:59.120 --> 2:19:01.320 only are other people just as upset as I am, 2:19:02.280 --> 2:19:04.560 but that alongside those other people, I can do things 2:19:04.600 --> 2:19:06.440 that I wouldn't have thought possible if I hadn't seen 2:19:06.480 --> 2:19:08.040 them with my own eyes, had done them with my 2:19:08.120 --> 2:19:11.800 own hands. From Obama to today, it's been up to 2:19:11.920 --> 2:19:16.440 us to welcome migrants. Obama set records for deportation, Biden 2:19:16.520 --> 2:19:19.640 beat them, albeit including Title forty two removals, and Trump 2:19:19.640 --> 2:19:23.520 will probably beat both this year. In the meantime, it's 2:19:23.600 --> 2:19:26.720 up to regular people to help one another. That shouldn't 2:19:26.720 --> 2:19:29.440 make us feel hopeless. It should make us feel strong. 2:19:30.360 --> 2:19:33.120 Matt's doing something remarkable, but I don't think he was 2:19:33.160 --> 2:19:36.320 in a very remarkable situation before. He was just a 2:19:36.400 --> 2:19:39.160 person lucky enough to have some spare time and some 2:19:39.280 --> 2:19:42.080 space to look after someone. But there are millions of 2:19:42.120 --> 2:19:44.880 people like that in this country. There are millions of 2:19:44.920 --> 2:19:47.400 people who are mad right now. The anger alone is 2:19:47.480 --> 2:19:50.199 not going to help us take care of people. That's 2:19:50.240 --> 2:19:53.200 what the priority should be right now. I don't want 2:19:53.200 --> 2:19:55.520 to paint Matt as the only person who helped Primrose, 2:19:55.760 --> 2:19:58.840 because hundreds of people help Primrose from the Mberalaan and 2:19:58.879 --> 2:20:01.520 the Jungles of Panama, and have fellow migrants WHI wash 2:20:01.520 --> 2:20:04.720 across Daddy and Gap, People across a continent took their 2:20:04.800 --> 2:20:08.360 time and their resources to help a stranger. I've heard 2:20:08.400 --> 2:20:11.160 of this from countless migrants as well. Some of them 2:20:11.280 --> 2:20:13.879 rode the train from southern Mexico up to the border, 2:20:13.959 --> 2:20:17.160 and people threw them food and warm jumpers to total 2:20:17.200 --> 2:20:19.760 strangers who they'd never met, who they'd never even got 2:20:19.800 --> 2:20:23.760 a chance to see, across thousands of miles. When states 2:20:23.800 --> 2:20:26.880 ignored their suffering, the hundreds of migrants I have talked 2:20:26.920 --> 2:20:32.120 to found food, shelter, and solidarity from ordinary people, and 2:20:32.240 --> 2:20:34.200 those people in their own way benefited too. 2:20:35.040 --> 2:20:39.800 It was enlightening to me that a it wasn't just me, Like, 2:20:39.959 --> 2:20:42.840 it's not just oh, I for some reason, I am 2:20:43.280 --> 2:20:46.120 the only one who's like really upset by all this. 2:20:47.000 --> 2:20:49.800 You know, there are other folks who are like this, 2:20:49.959 --> 2:20:54.000 but also just like a lot of other people are 2:20:54.240 --> 2:20:58.640 absolutely willing to take risks, be generous with their time 2:20:58.680 --> 2:21:01.280 and money, Like there's a lot of them. There's a 2:21:01.320 --> 2:21:04.200 lot of people who like want to help, and that 2:21:04.560 --> 2:21:06.800 kind of community. 2:21:06.680 --> 2:21:07.480 Aspect of it. 2:21:08.000 --> 2:21:11.040 It was a surprise to me that the doing it 2:21:11.160 --> 2:21:14.160 with other people was so powerful. Like I thought it 2:21:14.280 --> 2:21:18.880 was just about the doing the actual act of helping 2:21:18.920 --> 2:21:22.800 people somehow, but doing it with other people was just 2:21:23.080 --> 2:21:27.879 surprisingly good. Made me feel much more optimistic about our 2:21:27.920 --> 2:21:29.720 ability to get through this collectively. 2:21:30.600 --> 2:21:32.440 I asked Matt what he wanted people to know about 2:21:32.480 --> 2:21:33.240 his experience. 2:21:34.080 --> 2:21:38.119 Well, I mean, I guess what I would like people 2:21:38.160 --> 2:21:41.120 to know is it's not as hard as you might 2:21:41.240 --> 2:21:45.120 think to help folks like primos, Like it sounds insurmountable, 2:21:45.240 --> 2:21:48.080 like oh no, I'm exposed to all this risk and 2:21:48.200 --> 2:21:52.280 danger and legal hassle or whatever. But it's like it's 2:21:52.400 --> 2:21:55.080 not that complicated. It's like they fill out a forum 2:21:55.160 --> 2:21:58.039 and it just says like, oh, now I live here, 2:21:58.440 --> 2:22:00.360 and then once prove it, then there. 2:22:01.560 --> 2:22:04.440 The hard part is finding someone, especially now that migrants 2:22:04.480 --> 2:22:06.120 are more worried than ever to be out and in 2:22:06.200 --> 2:22:09.280 the community. Any database would be a risk for them. 2:22:09.720 --> 2:22:11.840 But maybe that's not a problem that someone can solve. 2:22:12.240 --> 2:22:15.920 It's kind of like an information sharing problem because like, 2:22:16.120 --> 2:22:19.320 these folks are all across the United States, and the 2:22:19.440 --> 2:22:24.360 people who could host them are similarly all across these states. 2:22:25.680 --> 2:22:27.240 But you don't have to take someone into your home. 2:22:27.879 --> 2:22:30.160 There are hundreds of things you can do wherever you are. 2:22:31.080 --> 2:22:33.640 You can feed people who are hungry, pick up someone's 2:22:33.720 --> 2:22:35.360 kids from school, or take their dogs for a walk, 2:22:36.200 --> 2:22:38.720 fix someone's car so it doesn't get towed or ticketed, 2:22:39.080 --> 2:22:42.760 or drive someone to a doctor's appointment. Creating safe communities 2:22:42.800 --> 2:22:45.720 for migrants is not a distinct act from creating safe 2:22:45.760 --> 2:22:50.000 communities for everyone. I've never been a big political theory reader, 2:22:50.800 --> 2:22:52.400 but I think I've learned everything I need to know 2:22:52.480 --> 2:22:55.280 about politics in refugue camps and the deserts and mountains 2:22:55.320 --> 2:22:57.760 and jungles that migrants traverse to get to this country 2:22:58.480 --> 2:23:01.320 in Panama, and met with the priest who houses migrants 2:23:02.200 --> 2:23:05.360 in California, have helped seeks and Quaker friends hand out 2:23:05.400 --> 2:23:08.560 warm food in the cold. We can come from a 2:23:08.680 --> 2:23:11.920 broad range of perspectives and still get to the same place. 2:23:12.840 --> 2:23:15.840 When someone needs help, you help them. And if we 2:23:15.920 --> 2:23:18.280 all do that, then when we need help, someone will 2:23:18.320 --> 2:23:21.240 help us. You don't have to wait four years to start. 2:23:21.800 --> 2:23:24.560 You can do it right now. While there are only 2:23:24.640 --> 2:23:26.240 some things we can do in the face of a 2:23:26.280 --> 2:23:29.720 government that doesn't want to help people like Primrose, there 2:23:29.800 --> 2:23:32.560 is an awful lot that we can do. For all 2:23:32.600 --> 2:23:34.480 the people who didn't make it to the USA from 2:23:34.520 --> 2:23:37.640 the jungle, we can help the people who did. We 2:23:37.720 --> 2:23:40.279 can also take this principle and make it a cornerstone 2:23:40.320 --> 2:23:44.000 of all our politics. The more people come to know migrants, 2:23:44.400 --> 2:23:46.440 the more they will see how broken our system is. 2:23:47.320 --> 2:23:49.600 The more people who see that, the more people will 2:23:49.640 --> 2:23:53.440 demand change. And I hope that they won't stop until 2:23:53.480 --> 2:23:55.400 we get a system that doesn't look at little children 2:23:55.440 --> 2:23:58.360 who aren't safe and say we don't want to help you, 2:23:59.200 --> 2:24:01.200 until we get assists to him, that doesn't make them 2:24:01.240 --> 2:24:03.760 walk across jungles and through deserts before they even get 2:24:03.800 --> 2:24:07.200 a chance to ask for help. Before we go, I 2:24:07.240 --> 2:24:08.600 thought I would play a part of the interview I 2:24:08.600 --> 2:24:13.040 did year. I speke Tristn on Monday, and he said 2:24:13.040 --> 2:24:14.080 his dad's still doing well. 2:24:20.920 --> 2:24:23.520 Truly, the migrants on this route are not here because 2:24:23.560 --> 2:24:27.080 they want to be. They are here because the economy 2:24:27.120 --> 2:24:31.960 and their countries is terrible or something. Everything is going 2:24:32.000 --> 2:24:36.000 badly on their countries. How can we mistreat them knowing 2:24:36.080 --> 2:24:43.039 that we won't not us never. This is a belief 2:24:43.080 --> 2:24:46.520 that we have. We are all children of God. God 2:24:46.600 --> 2:24:49.160 made the world and humanity, and we are not that different. 2:24:50.520 --> 2:24:51.320 We are all brothers. 2:24:55.640 --> 2:24:57.480 I want to leave the that's word today to primaries, 2:24:58.160 --> 2:25:01.120 because really is the story about her and him and 2:25:01.240 --> 2:25:04.119 the incredible tenacity encourage the show to get here. 2:25:05.160 --> 2:25:08.520 Even if I say I can me and myself, I 2:25:08.600 --> 2:25:11.360 can say thank you. I don't even know how to 2:25:11.400 --> 2:25:15.199 say thank you, but I'm just God knows. God, please 2:25:15.280 --> 2:25:18.400 blase those people who put ince on me and Kim. 2:25:19.240 --> 2:25:22.520 I thought maybe I'm alone, but I realized I'm not 2:25:22.640 --> 2:25:28.160 alone here if also people who helped me. You guys 2:25:28.200 --> 2:25:32.280 who helped me so much. I never even get helped 2:25:32.320 --> 2:25:34.959 even in my country the way I get to helped 2:25:35.200 --> 2:25:35.800 in America. 2:25:38.040 --> 2:25:43.160 And I'm really really glad. 2:25:43.240 --> 2:25:47.640 I'm very glad for those people who helped me. I 2:25:47.760 --> 2:25:51.160 have especially since when I was even in me, when 2:25:51.200 --> 2:25:54.960 I was in Mexico. In my prayers, i just say, God, 2:25:55.480 --> 2:25:59.400 just blase those people who put ince on me. You 2:25:59.520 --> 2:26:02.160 make me feel better. You put smile in my face 2:26:02.280 --> 2:26:05.640 and even came when you came here. I wasn't even 2:26:05.720 --> 2:26:10.680 heavy clothes to way nothing. They just only the clothes 2:26:10.760 --> 2:26:13.720 they gave us in detention when they detain us. That 2:26:13.879 --> 2:26:16.760 the clothes I was leaving I was when I want 2:26:16.840 --> 2:26:19.440 to wash it was a T shirt jacket. I just 2:26:19.560 --> 2:26:24.000 removed the top, then I washed the the inside the 2:26:24.120 --> 2:26:27.000 T shirt when it's dry. Then I we bothered and 2:26:27.080 --> 2:26:28.240 put in you when we were like. 2:26:29.760 --> 2:26:32.199 But for now, I'm. 2:26:32.160 --> 2:26:38.760 Really really appreciated a lot. I really appreciate a lot 2:26:38.879 --> 2:26:43.840 because my life is like changing now. 2:26:44.400 --> 2:26:47.640 So yeah, and it's. 2:26:50.160 --> 2:26:53.720 Like you were saying, the things came or he would 2:26:53.760 --> 2:26:56.520 be so different from the chances you had. Right, she 2:26:56.600 --> 2:27:02.280 can she speaks English, she speaks Spanish, she can go 2:27:02.440 --> 2:27:03.320 to school here. 2:27:04.200 --> 2:27:06.600 Yeah. Does that make you happy when you think about. 2:27:06.720 --> 2:27:08.920 Yeah, I'm Reyaby. 2:27:08.920 --> 2:27:11.560 Even if I even told you, Kim, I was asking 2:27:11.600 --> 2:27:15.199 you one day, I said, Kim, what if I die today? 2:27:17.000 --> 2:27:19.640 She was even mentioned your name, said, I would just 2:27:19.760 --> 2:27:22.480 ask him maybe I can just go to school? 2:27:24.400 --> 2:27:25.920 Yeah, yeah, wish. 2:27:26.000 --> 2:27:28.000 Also she was like, Mammy, I want to write my 2:27:28.120 --> 2:27:31.240 book when I start high school. I need to write 2:27:31.320 --> 2:27:34.520 my story of my life because we have been through 2:27:34.640 --> 2:27:38.240 a lot, but now we are happy. I don't want 2:27:38.240 --> 2:27:42.360 to live with your support. Guys, I'm really appreciated. Yeah, 2:27:42.480 --> 2:27:44.320 because if she go to school, I'm happy. 2:27:45.480 --> 2:27:46.120 I know she. 2:27:47.400 --> 2:27:49.400 I want you to heave a better life. 2:27:50.000 --> 2:28:10.280 Yeah, this is it could happen here. 2:28:10.480 --> 2:28:13.880 Executive Disorder our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the 2:28:13.879 --> 2:28:16.120 White House, the crumbling world, and what it means for you. 2:28:16.280 --> 2:28:17.080 I'm Garrison Davis. 2:28:17.120 --> 2:28:21.200 Today I'm joined by James Stout and Sophie Lichterman. This episode, 2:28:21.360 --> 2:28:24.240 we are covering the week of November twenty fourth to 2:28:24.320 --> 2:28:25.279 December fourth. 2:28:25.200 --> 2:28:26.320 An extra long week. 2:28:26.840 --> 2:28:29.960 Somehow the squeezed a few more days in there to 2:28:30.160 --> 2:28:33.000 open us up. James, what are what are some important 2:28:33.120 --> 2:28:34.840 small stories we don't want to overlook? 2:28:35.160 --> 2:28:38.560 Okay? Yeah, yeah, a lot because of our extra long week, right? 2:28:38.840 --> 2:28:39.040 Yeah. 2:28:39.560 --> 2:28:44.800 The United States is flying manned ISR flights over Nigeria 2:28:45.320 --> 2:28:47.600 and possibly parts of the Sahel as well. It's not 2:28:47.760 --> 2:28:50.119 entirely clear because the flights kind of go dark once 2:28:50.160 --> 2:28:53.279 they take off. Sources familiar with the matter have suggested 2:28:53.360 --> 2:28:57.320 that you AV strikes might begin soon. It seems that 2:28:57.400 --> 2:29:00.200 the ISR flights are targeting Iswapan. J And I am. 2:29:00.800 --> 2:29:03.080 I'm gonna write about this on my Patreon, probably because 2:29:03.200 --> 2:29:05.320 I think it requires visuals and I think it's it's 2:29:05.400 --> 2:29:06.800 too much to go into in depth here. But if 2:29:06.800 --> 2:29:08.480 you want to check that out, you can. Can you 2:29:08.680 --> 2:29:11.240 explain some of those acronyms? No, I just love to 2:29:11.280 --> 2:29:16.280 find it's great when you report on military ship because 2:29:16.280 --> 2:29:19.680 it's just a wall of acronyms. Okay, I SR flights. 2:29:19.879 --> 2:29:23.320 These are intelligence flights, right, Intelligence surveillance reconnaissance. I believe 2:29:23.320 --> 2:29:26.360 it's an acronym they're looking for stuff for ua V. 2:29:26.959 --> 2:29:31.280 On manned aerial vehicle, there's a gender neutral term and 2:29:31.400 --> 2:29:37.120 I can't remember unpiloted aerial vehicle walk is back hard. 2:29:38.240 --> 2:29:40.480 That's the bid nearer thing, right when you get killed 2:29:40.520 --> 2:29:44.000 by an unaccountable drone, But it's gender neutral. The it's 2:29:44.080 --> 2:29:47.320 what that's the Islamic State williar in that part of 2:29:47.360 --> 2:29:50.039 the world, so like Province, West Africa Province. I think 2:29:50.040 --> 2:29:52.560 it stands for these are the targets of these flights 2:29:52.600 --> 2:29:55.080 and strikes and Jay and I am being another jahardest 2:29:55.120 --> 2:29:58.680 group that is not associated with the so called Islamic State, 2:29:58.920 --> 2:29:59.240 got it? 2:30:00.360 --> 2:30:00.600 Wow? 2:30:01.240 --> 2:30:04.240 Yeah, Okay, hit you with another acronym, A foyer. I 2:30:04.320 --> 2:30:07.600 think I think we know that. One fire by the 2:30:07.680 --> 2:30:11.440 Cato Institute has revealed that the FBI under Biden was 2:30:11.560 --> 2:30:16.039 investigating the SRA that's a socialist rifle association. It didn't 2:30:16.080 --> 2:30:18.240 bring charges against any of the members, but it did 2:30:18.680 --> 2:30:23.160 apparently investigate him for some time. Finally, the National Park 2:30:23.320 --> 2:30:26.520 Service has announced a new fee schedule and quote unquote 2:30:26.640 --> 2:30:28.480 modernized graphics for passes. 2:30:28.640 --> 2:30:30.760 Is this the horrific image you sent us? 2:30:31.040 --> 2:30:33.840 Yes, it's a picture of Donald Trump. Yeah, that's how 2:30:33.879 --> 2:30:37.320 they've modernized it. It's it's not very nice. I I 2:30:37.920 --> 2:30:40.000 know there are better things in the parks. I feel like, like, 2:30:40.120 --> 2:30:44.920 you know, half Dome is nice, the Yosemite Valley, Yeah, 2:30:45.440 --> 2:30:48.680 pretty cool. Shit in wrangle sint Elias that you could 2:30:48.680 --> 2:30:49.240 do instead. 2:30:49.640 --> 2:30:53.800 That's like him trying to rename that East Institute after himself. 2:30:54.440 --> 2:30:58.280 He just keeps trying to put his face and name 2:30:58.680 --> 2:31:00.840 on everything. Yeah. 2:31:00.959 --> 2:31:04.200 Well, when you're a dying man, legacy becomes very important. 2:31:04.480 --> 2:31:09.600 Yeah, yeah, exactly, But that's exactly it. The US Institute 2:31:09.600 --> 2:31:11.560 of Peace is being renamed for Trump. 2:31:12.240 --> 2:31:17.920 Really yeah, oh I know I miss that. Great cool. 2:31:18.160 --> 2:31:21.400 It's feeling very similar to that, whether he's just putting 2:31:21.440 --> 2:31:23.160 his face and name on everything. 2:31:23.480 --> 2:31:23.680 Yeah. 2:31:24.920 --> 2:31:28.279 So two things, right, electronic passes for parks it's phony 2:31:28.280 --> 2:31:32.200 a good thing, And a one hundred dollars up charge 2:31:32.360 --> 2:31:35.920 for non United States I think it's residents as opposed 2:31:35.959 --> 2:31:38.480 to citizens in the eleven most popular parks. 2:31:38.520 --> 2:31:39.560 How can they even check that? 2:31:39.680 --> 2:31:41.880 I might just ask like this, this sounds like a 2:31:41.959 --> 2:31:45.080 tourism thing, right, like they just wanted people to dinner, 2:31:45.440 --> 2:31:46.920 like visiting the States to pay more. 2:31:47.280 --> 2:31:49.400 To be clear, other countries do this. I still think 2:31:49.440 --> 2:31:51.720 it's bad. Like some of the Grand Canyon is part 2:31:51.720 --> 2:31:54.840 of a cultural patrimony of all of humanity. Yeah, the 2:31:54.959 --> 2:31:57.959 National Park Service itself is an exercise in set like colonialism. 2:31:58.040 --> 2:32:00.800 But we can talk about that forever. Yeah, I've seen 2:32:00.920 --> 2:32:03.160 some stuff with gate ranges, be like, I'm absolutely not 2:32:03.240 --> 2:32:06.480 asking feel green cord. Yeah, no, that's silly fear ranges. 2:32:06.560 --> 2:32:08.440 But yeah, I think they were just kind of assuming 2:32:08.480 --> 2:32:10.200 good faith. A lot of other countries do do this, 2:32:10.760 --> 2:32:14.160 It's not unusual. I still think it sucks. There's also 2:32:14.360 --> 2:32:17.680 an interagency pass. It's two fifty for non residents and 2:32:17.720 --> 2:32:20.840 eighty dollars for residents. So those are they're the big 2:32:20.959 --> 2:32:21.520 changes there. 2:32:22.280 --> 2:32:26.200 Speaking of big changes, a pretty big update in a 2:32:26.360 --> 2:32:30.320 case that has lasted nearly five years. This morning, Thursday, 2:32:30.360 --> 2:32:33.960 December fourth, a suspect was arrested in connection to the 2:32:34.120 --> 2:32:37.400 pipe bombs placed around the capital the night before January sixth, 2:32:37.760 --> 2:32:41.520 specifically at the DNC and rnc aad quarters in Washington, 2:32:41.640 --> 2:32:44.320 d C. This suspect has been identified as thirty year 2:32:44.320 --> 2:32:49.640 old Brian Cole Junior, from a Woodbridge, Virginia. Federal law 2:32:49.680 --> 2:32:51.840 enforcement sources have told The New York post that the 2:32:51.920 --> 2:32:57.920 suspect may have had quote unquote anarchist leanings unquote. This 2:32:58.040 --> 2:33:01.000 could mean anything, right, This could be anything from like 2:33:01.120 --> 2:33:07.480 anti government, violent extremism like militia movement type extremism, Boogaloo boys, accelerationist, 2:33:07.720 --> 2:33:11.280 as well as possible left wing anarchist leanings. Sure, it 2:33:11.360 --> 2:33:14.160 could be any number of things. There's still very limited 2:33:14.160 --> 2:33:17.600 information about this. Even in the like DJ press conference 2:33:17.640 --> 2:33:20.440 that just wrapped up a few minutes before we started recording. 2:33:21.280 --> 2:33:23.680 They're being pretty tight left about details. And I think 2:33:23.680 --> 2:33:27.360 about his gait, Well, yes, people are asking about his gait, 2:33:27.920 --> 2:33:33.200 and allegedly he had begun building explosive devices in twenty nineteen. 2:33:34.000 --> 2:33:37.680 Okay, okay, So like some some background. 2:33:37.640 --> 2:33:41.600 This arrest does partially discredit a report from The Blaze, 2:33:41.640 --> 2:33:43.920 which Robert has talked about on this show before, which 2:33:44.000 --> 2:33:47.440 falsely identified a former Capitol Police officer as the bomber 2:33:47.840 --> 2:33:49.800 based on Gate analysis. 2:33:50.640 --> 2:33:52.920 Yeah, if they prosecute someone else, the Blaze is going 2:33:52.959 --> 2:33:55.760 to get sued out of existence. So I would imagine they. 2:33:55.840 --> 2:33:59.680 Critical support to former Capital police officer puts the Blaze 2:33:59.720 --> 2:34:03.120 out of business. Wow, pour one out for Glenn Beck. 2:34:04.240 --> 2:34:08.200 But this suspect that lives at a home associated with 2:34:08.480 --> 2:34:11.600 both their parents. It's unclear if their parents are still married. 2:34:12.320 --> 2:34:15.560 Suspects dad runs a bail bond business, which the Sun 2:34:16.280 --> 2:34:19.320 is supposed to have worked for, and the mom is 2:34:19.360 --> 2:34:24.000 a real estate agent. Not much online presence can be 2:34:24.200 --> 2:34:28.880 found yet on Brian Cole Junior. I've spent hours looking 2:34:29.360 --> 2:34:32.000 and so far not much there. But we'll see if 2:34:32.080 --> 2:34:33.200 that changes over time. 2:34:34.440 --> 2:34:35.680 A developing story. 2:34:36.040 --> 2:34:38.279 Yeah, yeah, we'll do a whole episode if it marriage 2:34:38.320 --> 2:34:42.360 it later, I guess sure. Talking of terrible indictment, Garrison, 2:34:42.480 --> 2:34:44.959 would you like to hear about a terrible indictment out 2:34:45.000 --> 2:34:45.600 of Texas? 2:34:46.280 --> 2:34:49.560 I'm going to say yes, but no, I don't know 2:34:49.600 --> 2:34:52.680 if i'd like to for what reasons? I feel like 2:34:52.720 --> 2:34:54.840 you're going to do it anyway, so I'll play along. 2:34:55.600 --> 2:34:58.240 Two Texas men have been indicted for a plan to 2:34:58.320 --> 2:35:01.360 invade a small island off hate, kill all the men, 2:35:01.640 --> 2:35:04.640 and sexually enslave all the women and children. 2:35:04.760 --> 2:35:05.680 What I'm sorry? 2:35:05.959 --> 2:35:06.000 What? 2:35:07.080 --> 2:35:10.080 Yeah? This is this is a wild one. The indictment 2:35:10.160 --> 2:35:13.160 says they we hope to quote lead an unlawful expeditionary 2:35:13.240 --> 2:35:15.320 force to the island of Gonave, which is part of 2:35:15.360 --> 2:35:18.840 the Republic of at For the purpose of carrying out 2:35:18.879 --> 2:35:24.200 their rape fantasies. Weisinberg and Thomas plan to purchase a sailboat, firearms, 2:35:24.240 --> 2:35:27.160 and ammunition, then recruit members of the District of Columbia 2:35:27.240 --> 2:35:30.360 area homeless population to serve as a mercenary force, as 2:35:30.400 --> 2:35:34.920 say invader Gnave Island and stage Acudaita. Weisenberg and Thomas 2:35:34.959 --> 2:35:36.920 intended to murder all of the men on the island 2:35:37.080 --> 2:35:39.360 so they could turn all of the women and children 2:35:39.400 --> 2:35:43.040 into their sex slaves. That is what is alleged in 2:35:43.160 --> 2:35:47.440 the indictment. Right be an interesting case. One of them 2:35:47.760 --> 2:35:50.120 had joined the Air Force in twenty twenty five to 2:35:50.400 --> 2:35:52.640 get some military experience, or was in the Air Force 2:35:52.840 --> 2:35:55.640 this year to get some military experience and has successfully 2:35:55.760 --> 2:36:00.320 been transferred to nearer to d C from where they 2:36:00.360 --> 2:36:03.400 hope to recruit unhoused people to service merceries. 2:36:03.840 --> 2:36:09.200 This is absolutely insane. Who are who are these two 2:36:09.320 --> 2:36:11.360 Texas men? Why do they think this is like a 2:36:11.480 --> 2:36:13.600 thing that can be like, all. 2:36:13.560 --> 2:36:18.400 Right, it's borderline something I considered not including because like 2:36:18.520 --> 2:36:20.720 the people are probably pretty unwell. 2:36:20.959 --> 2:36:23.800 It seems like are they just obsessed with like Eric 2:36:23.920 --> 2:36:26.240 Prince like, I don't, I don't understand. 2:36:26.240 --> 2:36:26.520 I don't. 2:36:27.200 --> 2:36:30.039 Yeah, Like, if the guy hadn't passed all the background 2:36:30.120 --> 2:36:31.760 checks to get into the air Force, I feel like 2:36:31.840 --> 2:36:35.840 this would be less remarkable. Right, But while planning to 2:36:36.080 --> 2:36:40.920 invade a small island and enslave everybody he got into 2:36:41.040 --> 2:36:45.160 the air force. That that in itself like like should 2:36:45.200 --> 2:36:47.440 be a story. And of course it is all alleged, right, 2:36:47.520 --> 2:36:50.720 it's all in an indictment. We don't know what the 2:36:50.840 --> 2:36:52.880 evidential basis for a lot of this is. 2:36:53.720 --> 2:36:55.160 Well, that was disturbing. 2:36:55.680 --> 2:36:58.560 Yeah, it's wild one. I guess we'll keep you informed. 2:36:59.600 --> 2:37:03.879 What Garson Garrison. 2:37:04.040 --> 2:37:08.320 I like, I like, can't even compute, Like, that's one 2:37:08.360 --> 2:37:10.840 of the most insane things I've heard in a really 2:37:10.920 --> 2:37:11.360 long time. 2:37:12.560 --> 2:37:17.119 Well, fors of economic news, let's has thrown to tariffs. 2:37:17.440 --> 2:37:19.160 Let's glow to tariff talk with me a. 2:37:23.840 --> 2:37:34.520 Rocking jazz rockety jazz bot rocking jazz rocky jazz bo. 2:37:37.200 --> 2:37:41.040 This is mea wong with tariff talk. So obviously, the 2:37:41.080 --> 2:37:45.080 biggest tariff news right now is the impending Supreme Court 2:37:45.200 --> 2:37:49.400 ruling on the legality of a broad swath of the 2:37:49.520 --> 2:37:54.560 terrorists that Trump has imposed using unbelievably dubious legal and 2:37:54.600 --> 2:37:57.680 economic authority. And by unbelievably dubious, I mean it is 2:37:58.600 --> 2:38:03.320 so patently illegal. It is an astounding demonstration of the 2:38:03.400 --> 2:38:09.240 complete advocation of the Supreme Court's pretensions at being one 2:38:09.280 --> 2:38:12.280 of the branches of government. That this hasn't already been overturned. 2:38:13.160 --> 2:38:16.120 But this is ruling has not dropped yet. Everyone's waiting. 2:38:16.760 --> 2:38:20.360 So in the meantime, what we have is a bunch 2:38:20.400 --> 2:38:22.960 of Trump administration officials have been going on TV and 2:38:23.040 --> 2:38:27.680 talking about trade policy, and they're saying something that we've 2:38:27.760 --> 2:38:30.720 been hearing for a while now, which is that they 2:38:30.959 --> 2:38:34.040 believe that they can use different set of legal authority 2:38:34.080 --> 2:38:37.480 to impose the same tariffs. Whether they can do this 2:38:37.680 --> 2:38:40.000 or not, is I mean, they shouldn't be able to 2:38:40.080 --> 2:38:41.680 do this, like all of that, All of the authority 2:38:41.720 --> 2:38:45.360 they're using is pretty ridiculous. But this has been This 2:38:45.440 --> 2:38:49.000 has been their strategy. They've been reiterating their strategy. On 2:38:49.200 --> 2:38:52.440 the other side, we've seen some interesting movement in terms 2:38:52.680 --> 2:38:55.959 of the opposition, which is that Costco has become sort 2:38:56.000 --> 2:38:59.000 of the biggest company to join in this trend of 2:38:59.720 --> 2:39:02.280 company and he's like going to court with lawsuits to 2:39:02.360 --> 2:39:06.199 try to recoup the money that they've spent on these tariffs, 2:39:06.320 --> 2:39:10.920 because if the Supreme Court ruling like overturns the legality 2:39:11.000 --> 2:39:13.920 of these terriffs, these companies can get their money back retroactively. 2:39:13.959 --> 2:39:16.000 Costco is the biggest company we've seen so far short 2:39:16.000 --> 2:39:19.080 of moved to attempt to do this remedy to the courts. 2:39:20.280 --> 2:39:21.880 So we will, we will, we will keep an eye 2:39:21.959 --> 2:39:24.240 on this. And this is you know, I think, I think, 2:39:24.320 --> 2:39:26.240 especially if this comes overturned, we're going to see a 2:39:26.240 --> 2:39:28.600 lot of companies trying to make moves for this. This 2:39:28.680 --> 2:39:30.119 is something that is going to piss off the Trump 2:39:30.120 --> 2:39:34.000 administration because they've been talking a giant game about how, 2:39:34.120 --> 2:39:36.000 oh these are going to fund the like two thousand 2:39:36.040 --> 2:39:39.000 dollars tariff checks you're never getting. Trump is literally talking 2:39:39.040 --> 2:39:40.760 about and this is the you know, this is an 2:39:40.760 --> 2:39:43.600 old sort of right wing thing, but he's talking about how, oh, 2:39:43.800 --> 2:39:48.240 terriff's revenue is going to replace income tax, which no, 2:39:48.400 --> 2:39:52.320 it's not like I just nonsense, gibberish numbers don't work. 2:39:52.440 --> 2:39:55.280 Orders the magnitude off just nonsense can't work. 2:39:56.040 --> 2:39:57.120 But you know, this is there. 2:39:57.120 --> 2:39:58.840 These are things that they're saying, and there's probably going 2:39:58.920 --> 2:40:01.280 to be an increasing conflict between the sectors of capital 2:40:01.360 --> 2:40:03.880 that just want their money back from these tariffs and 2:40:03.959 --> 2:40:07.200 the Trump administration, which you know, wants there's money for its, 2:40:07.480 --> 2:40:10.280 you know, nebulus political purposes. There's been some sort of 2:40:10.360 --> 2:40:14.760 interesting political developments in terms of Trump and Lula. So 2:40:15.000 --> 2:40:17.440 people will probably remember from listening to the show that 2:40:17.520 --> 2:40:21.080 there have been very very high turiffs on Brazil that 2:40:21.200 --> 2:40:25.560 are effectively political tariffs for actually putting one gi Air 2:40:25.600 --> 2:40:30.400 Bolscenaro in prison for you know, the mere crime of 2:40:30.640 --> 2:40:34.039 attempting to overthrow the government to install himself as the. 2:40:34.160 --> 2:40:35.199 Ruler of Brazil. 2:40:35.840 --> 2:40:40.000 Now there has been over the past few weeks there's 2:40:40.040 --> 2:40:41.880 been some sort of ratcheting down of a lot of 2:40:41.959 --> 2:40:43.600 the tariffs. There's been a bunch of goods that have 2:40:43.640 --> 2:40:46.480 been exempt from the teriffs as part of Trump's sort 2:40:46.520 --> 2:40:50.119 of widespread efforts to like lower food prices, because there's 2:40:50.120 --> 2:40:52.119 a bunch of food goods that are being exempt from 2:40:52.200 --> 2:40:55.560 this stuff. And there was also very recently we got 2:40:55.600 --> 2:40:58.080 an actual call between Trump and Lula which seems to 2:40:58.160 --> 2:41:01.240 have gone fairly well, you know, at least it seems 2:41:01.240 --> 2:41:03.360 to have been cordial. The two seem to both be 2:41:03.680 --> 2:41:05.680 coming out of it saying like, oh, we agree on things. 2:41:05.959 --> 2:41:08.320 It's going to go great. And this is to a 2:41:08.400 --> 2:41:10.480 large extent, an attempt to do a replay of Lula's 2:41:10.480 --> 2:41:12.800 positive relationship with the Bush administration the last time he 2:41:12.920 --> 2:41:15.000 was in power, where and this is you know, this 2:41:15.080 --> 2:41:17.640 has been a trend in the in the sort of 2:41:18.000 --> 2:41:21.200 the original pink tide and in this government where you 2:41:21.400 --> 2:41:24.160 have a kind of mix of the sort of pink 2:41:24.160 --> 2:41:27.080 tie center left governments in Latin America, where you know, 2:41:27.240 --> 2:41:29.960 Lula has traditionally been the one who's been sort of 2:41:30.800 --> 2:41:35.440 playing with the US more. And you know, as we're saying, 2:41:35.520 --> 2:41:39.840 right now, you have the US gearing up for, you know, 2:41:40.160 --> 2:41:44.200 like potentially a war in Venezuela, and there's been a 2:41:44.240 --> 2:41:46.680 whole bunch of conflict with Columbia. But Lula seems to 2:41:46.760 --> 2:41:49.280 be trying to sort of play the role that he 2:41:49.560 --> 2:41:52.720 played in the two thousands. We'll see how that goes. 2:41:53.520 --> 2:41:57.879 Trump is astonishingly significantly more unstable than George W. Bush, 2:41:57.959 --> 2:42:04.480 which is just good lord, oh god, okay, with enough, 2:42:05.000 --> 2:42:07.240 Oh my god. They finally found a president who is 2:42:07.720 --> 2:42:10.360 less coherent and more unhinged than George W. 2:42:10.560 --> 2:42:10.840 Bush. 2:42:11.800 --> 2:42:13.440 The final piece of news that we need to touch 2:42:13.520 --> 2:42:17.840 on is the US is chief trade negotiator gave an 2:42:17.879 --> 2:42:21.640 interview with Politico, and this is Perya who News basically 2:42:21.879 --> 2:42:25.240 talked to Politico and told them that Trump is considering, 2:42:25.920 --> 2:42:29.240 you know, is talking about leaving or renegotiating the USMCA, 2:42:29.879 --> 2:42:33.760 which is the trade agreements that he negotiated to replace 2:42:33.920 --> 2:42:35.560 NAFTA in twenty twenty. 2:42:36.160 --> 2:42:37.120 Roll this back again. 2:42:37.480 --> 2:42:38.280 This is his deal. 2:42:38.520 --> 2:42:42.080 He's talking about leaving or renegotiating his deal. This was 2:42:42.160 --> 2:42:43.800 his big thing in twenty twenty is big. One of 2:42:43.840 --> 2:42:46.000 his big things was, oh I abolished NAFTA. Oh I 2:42:46.080 --> 2:42:47.920 created this deal, and you know, I've one at the 2:42:47.959 --> 2:42:49.920 time was like, well, this is just like NAFTA with 2:42:50.080 --> 2:42:52.360 like the edges filed off, you know, but like this 2:42:52.520 --> 2:42:54.640 is sort of the point that we're at in Trumpian 2:42:54.680 --> 2:42:57.360 trade policy where it's like, ah, we're getting ripped off 2:42:57.400 --> 2:42:59.920 by Mexico and Canada in the trade deal that I saw. 2:43:00.000 --> 2:43:03.480 And as Garrison is fond of saying, the defining political 2:43:03.560 --> 2:43:05.600 question of our times, he was president in twenty twenty. 2:43:05.920 --> 2:43:09.000 Brother, you you did this, this this this was your 2:43:09.080 --> 2:43:13.880 trade deal, and somehow, somehow now you know, into in 2:43:13.959 --> 2:43:17.800 terms of real terms, right, this is actually a massive deal. 2:43:18.360 --> 2:43:20.360 So this deal has a six year term. It was 2:43:20.440 --> 2:43:22.760 negotiated in twenty twenty, which means just coming up next year. 2:43:23.720 --> 2:43:26.760 And this is a big enough deal that there's already 2:43:26.879 --> 2:43:28.960 sort of a full court press and the press. You 2:43:29.000 --> 2:43:31.720 can see the New York Times running it where every 2:43:32.120 --> 2:43:35.000 single faction of capital nhsicle fashion, but a whole bunch 2:43:35.000 --> 2:43:36.800 of factions of the capital are getting every single think 2:43:36.840 --> 2:43:39.480 tank and lobbying group and you know, like Policy Research 2:43:39.520 --> 2:43:41.720 Institute or whatever together to be like, please don't get 2:43:41.800 --> 2:43:45.360 rid of this. Because the thing about the us MCA, 2:43:45.760 --> 2:43:48.280 and this something we've talked about to some extent in 2:43:48.400 --> 2:43:52.440 terms of Canada and Mexico tariffs. But one of the 2:43:52.520 --> 2:43:55.320 really important things about the teriffs that have been imposed 2:43:55.440 --> 2:43:57.760 on Mexico and Canada on the terrorifraces are extremely high, 2:43:58.760 --> 2:44:02.680 is that those tariffs haven't been applied to goods that 2:44:02.840 --> 2:44:05.880 are covered by the USMCA. And this has been a 2:44:05.920 --> 2:44:08.600 crucial lifeline to allow trade to not be annihilated by 2:44:08.640 --> 2:44:11.720 those American tariffs. And if Trump pulls out of it 2:44:11.879 --> 2:44:15.000 and suddenly those goods are covered by these tariffs. It's 2:44:15.040 --> 2:44:18.720 going to be a really really significant economic hit for 2:44:19.240 --> 2:44:24.440 everyone in the world eventually, but for the US and 2:44:25.360 --> 2:44:27.800 Mexico and Canada, this is going to be a massive deal. 2:44:28.520 --> 2:44:31.200 And I want to kind of close on a kind 2:44:31.240 --> 2:44:33.360 of broader point about this for a second, which is 2:44:33.440 --> 2:44:37.600 that like, we're not pro NAFTA, Like no NAFTA was bad. 2:44:37.680 --> 2:44:39.440 Part of the reason theho administration was able to do 2:44:39.560 --> 2:44:42.840 this was because of the ways that NAFTA sort of 2:44:43.120 --> 2:44:45.760 hauled out and destroyed fast sections of the American working 2:44:45.800 --> 2:44:48.240 class and also the Mexican working classes has not been 2:44:48.320 --> 2:44:51.080 good for anyone really involved in this. One of the 2:44:51.120 --> 2:44:52.680 things that happens if you if you go into the 2:44:52.720 --> 2:44:55.600 economic literature. One of the episodes I did a while 2:44:55.680 --> 2:44:59.600 back talking about US and Mexico in history of like 2:44:59.680 --> 2:45:03.080 trade policy, they're sort of talks about this, which is 2:45:03.120 --> 2:45:05.640 that if you go back into the economic literature, all 2:45:05.680 --> 2:45:08.280 of the economics people have had to admit that the 2:45:08.520 --> 2:45:11.240 leftists from the nineties or whatever were right that this 2:45:11.400 --> 2:45:13.560 was not going to benefit the Mexican working class. It hasn't, 2:45:14.320 --> 2:45:16.000 you know. But on the other hand, Trump's sort of 2:45:16.959 --> 2:45:20.520 this is also not benefiting the Mexican or American working classes. 2:45:21.760 --> 2:45:24.720 Nothing that these people do on either side really do. 2:45:24.800 --> 2:45:26.200 If you want to look at what actual sort of 2:45:26.280 --> 2:45:29.800 resistance in NAFTA looks like, and what effective resistance NAFTA 2:45:29.800 --> 2:45:33.320 looks like, look at the Zapatistas whose rebellion was sparked 2:45:33.520 --> 2:45:36.200 by NAFTA and who went into revolt on the day 2:45:36.200 --> 2:45:38.920 that NAFTA went into effect. But Trump has been able 2:45:38.959 --> 2:45:42.880 to very effectively kind of be the person who comes 2:45:42.959 --> 2:45:46.680 in as I'm the champion of the workers, etc. 2:45:46.920 --> 2:45:47.080 Etc. 2:45:47.440 --> 2:45:50.520 Because I'm renegotiating the evil trade deals and now like 2:45:50.600 --> 2:45:52.959 our good American workers would no longer be exploited by 2:45:53.040 --> 2:45:56.960 like evil Mexican or Chinese workers, which you know, has 2:45:57.000 --> 2:45:59.280 been an extremely effective political strategy for him, and is 2:45:59.440 --> 2:46:01.520 you know, awsome. So this sort of this sort of 2:46:01.600 --> 2:46:07.360 like national fascist program that he's running is sort of 2:46:07.480 --> 2:46:09.959 based on, you know, on this kind of trade policy 2:46:09.959 --> 2:46:12.040 and on manipulating the sentiments of people who got like 2:46:12.560 --> 2:46:16.879 actually screwed over by by NAFTA. So yeah, that's where 2:46:16.879 --> 2:46:18.560 we're gonna kind of close on this. As Trump is 2:46:18.600 --> 2:46:23.160 thinking about pulling out that is a huge deal. And yeah, 2:46:23.200 --> 2:46:24.080 this has been teriff talk. 2:46:25.360 --> 2:46:27.320 Let's let's go to an ad break real quick. We'll 2:46:27.320 --> 2:46:44.360 be right back, and we're back, Arison, tell me, tell 2:46:44.440 --> 2:46:47.080 me something less horrific than what James just told us 2:46:47.640 --> 2:46:49.320 before me as tariff textion. 2:46:49.520 --> 2:46:52.480 I missed a pot. I missed a pot. Okay, do 2:46:52.520 --> 2:46:53.959 you do? You want to guess how they were making 2:46:54.040 --> 2:46:56.000 money for part of this and cording to the indictment, 2:46:56.879 --> 2:46:58.800 this is the Texas many why's been made the island? 2:46:59.080 --> 2:46:59.960 How are they making money? 2:47:00.200 --> 2:47:00.600 Crypto? 2:47:01.120 --> 2:47:03.200 No, it's worse than that. That's a good guest, Sophie. 2:47:04.000 --> 2:47:04.120 Mm. 2:47:05.080 --> 2:47:06.320 But you've said it's worse than that. 2:47:06.640 --> 2:47:09.840 Oh no, manipulating camgirls. 2:47:09.840 --> 2:47:13.680 In a sense, it appears they were producing child sexual 2:47:13.720 --> 2:47:14.640 abuse material. 2:47:14.840 --> 2:47:21.080 Oh yeah, wow, this is I mean, obviously it's still allegedly, 2:47:21.160 --> 2:47:23.200 but like, this is one of the worst things I've 2:47:23.320 --> 2:47:25.520 ever heard, and I don't even know how to react. 2:47:26.360 --> 2:47:26.560 Huh. 2:47:26.920 --> 2:47:29.440 Yeah, he was he received he was prosecuted under U 2:47:29.520 --> 2:47:35.160 C mjuh for that previously this year. Yeah, I was 2:47:35.240 --> 2:47:39.440 prosecuted in Uh. I'm just reading a Task and Purpose 2:47:39.560 --> 2:47:41.480 article which builds in the indictment. But the it says, 2:47:42.680 --> 2:47:46.320 so he's arrested in July and has since been court martialed. Ah, 2:47:47.360 --> 2:47:51.320 so good times, good times in the air the Air Force. 2:47:52.040 --> 2:47:55.680 Yeah, well I can't I can't believe the Air Force 2:47:55.760 --> 2:47:59.280 has done something wrong. Yeah, finally the first blaze on 2:47:59.400 --> 2:48:05.879 are prouder glorious Air Force. Maybe the biggest national news 2:48:06.240 --> 2:48:10.000 story kicked off the day before Thanksgiving, not just because 2:48:10.200 --> 2:48:13.600 of what happened, but then all of the fallout that 2:48:13.720 --> 2:48:17.959 has resulted from this incident, which James will report on afterwards. 2:48:18.000 --> 2:48:21.160 But let's go back to the day before Thanksgiving where 2:48:21.200 --> 2:48:24.560 two National Guard troops from West Virginia on assignment in Washington, 2:48:24.640 --> 2:48:27.200 d C. It's a part of Trump's crime crackdown were 2:48:27.280 --> 2:48:30.840 shot on patrol a few blocks away from the White House. 2:48:31.480 --> 2:48:35.360 Other Guard members fired back and tackled the shooter. One 2:48:35.400 --> 2:48:37.440 of the National Guard members, a twenty year old named 2:48:37.520 --> 2:48:42.160 Sarah Beckstrom, died from gunshot injuries on Thanksgiving. The other, 2:48:42.520 --> 2:48:45.840 twenty four year old Andrew Wolfe, has so far survived 2:48:46.160 --> 2:48:47.440 remains hospitalized. 2:48:48.120 --> 2:48:48.360 Wow. 2:48:48.879 --> 2:48:49.080 Yeah. 2:48:49.800 --> 2:48:54.680 A twenty nine year old man, Romanula Locknwall is charged 2:48:54.760 --> 2:48:57.520 with first degree murder and assault with intent to kill. 2:48:58.200 --> 2:49:01.840 The criminal complaint alleges he shouted a la akbar as 2:49:01.920 --> 2:49:05.200 he fired Lockawall came to the United States as a 2:49:05.240 --> 2:49:08.960 part of Operation Allies Welcome in twenty twenty one, which 2:49:09.040 --> 2:49:11.800 moved US assets out of Afghanistan as the Taliban gain 2:49:11.879 --> 2:49:16.000 control of the region. Lockinwall was later granted formal asylum 2:49:16.280 --> 2:49:20.440 under Trump. This past April, friend of the alleged shooter 2:49:20.560 --> 2:49:23.400 told The New York Times that Lockerwall joined the CIA 2:49:23.600 --> 2:49:27.760 backed paramilitary squad Unit zero three to earn money for 2:49:28.080 --> 2:49:32.400 his family and get medical training, rather than for ideological reasons, 2:49:32.680 --> 2:49:35.520 and when he returned from stints with the zero Unit, 2:49:35.920 --> 2:49:39.760 his personality changed and he was less socially outgoing. To 2:49:39.879 --> 2:49:43.080 quote from the Times quote, Blockenwall told others in his 2:49:43.280 --> 2:49:45.840 village that he had been shaken by seeing so many 2:49:45.920 --> 2:49:47.280 bodies and bloodshed in. 2:49:47.320 --> 2:49:50.440 His role with the zero three unit. Quote. 2:49:51.480 --> 2:49:54.959 According to a volunteer who worked with his family, Blockenwall's 2:49:55.000 --> 2:49:58.320 mental health started rapidly declining in early twenty twenty three. 2:49:58.800 --> 2:50:02.279 He begun self isolated, withdrawing from work and family, stopped 2:50:02.320 --> 2:50:06.360 paying rent, and faced deviction in twenty twenty four. This 2:50:06.480 --> 2:50:09.360 volunteer wrote in an email to an immigrant nonprofit group, 2:50:09.520 --> 2:50:11.520 which was obtained by the AP In the New York Times, 2:50:11.920 --> 2:50:15.119 which reads that lock Andwell quote has not been functional 2:50:15.160 --> 2:50:18.680 as a person, father and provider since March of last year, 2:50:19.240 --> 2:50:24.800 twenty three. His behavior has changed greatly unquote. When Lockwell 2:50:24.879 --> 2:50:28.359 emerged from quote unquote dark isolation, it was to engage 2:50:28.360 --> 2:50:32.240 in quote unquote reckless travel, according to this volunteer, long 2:50:32.440 --> 2:50:35.560 seemingly pointless road trips across the country. 2:50:36.240 --> 2:50:39.240 Yeah, and he seems to be behaving in a way that, 2:50:39.600 --> 2:50:42.840 like you said, suggest he has some PTSD or. 2:50:43.000 --> 2:50:46.160 Like no PTSD from engaging in combat. This is very 2:50:46.160 --> 2:50:50.160 common among veterans and mental health support for specifically these 2:50:50.240 --> 2:50:53.920 people in this in this paramilitary unit probably doesn't exist, right, 2:50:53.959 --> 2:50:56.199 does not exist the same way it does for veterans 2:50:56.560 --> 2:50:59.279 of the United States military, which already is a lacking service. 2:50:59.520 --> 2:51:02.160 Yeah, yeah, that's that. Yeah, I mean these the ship 2:51:02.240 --> 2:51:05.720 that these guys did was dark. I've included in the 2:51:05.879 --> 2:51:07.640 in the show notes a linked to a Human Rights 2:51:07.680 --> 2:51:10.600 Watch report. But like, there's a reason that they weren't 2:51:11.200 --> 2:51:15.680 specifically under In theory, they were under the Afghan Ministry 2:51:15.680 --> 2:51:19.080 of Defense Command, but in practice they operated outside either 2:51:19.160 --> 2:51:22.320 chain of control. They did kill or capture missions. There 2:51:22.320 --> 2:51:26.280 are multiple reports of them killing everybody in a house 2:51:26.800 --> 2:51:30.920 and then it being the wrong house. Like really, stuff 2:51:31.680 --> 2:51:33.720 that is going to stay with someone, right and unless 2:51:33.760 --> 2:51:38.880 they're like, you know, pretty nuts, No, extremely horrifying, Yeah, 2:51:39.520 --> 2:51:45.920 terrifying stuff. Pretty much immediately after, the Trump administration began 2:51:46.800 --> 2:51:52.120 calling for various immigration restrictions based on this. Right Now, 2:51:52.400 --> 2:51:56.279 it's worth noting that luck Andwell entered the United States 2:51:56.280 --> 2:51:58.960 as part of Operation Allied Welcome, right, but then he 2:51:59.080 --> 2:52:03.920 received US asylum under the Trump administration, so that would 2:52:03.959 --> 2:52:07.520 have been this year, right, Like, I'm not entirely sure 2:52:07.560 --> 2:52:09.960 why he went asylum rather than a special immigrant visa, 2:52:10.520 --> 2:52:12.960 but both the pathways that are opened to Afghan people, right, 2:52:13.520 --> 2:52:16.760 SIV has some benefits, but also it had some different 2:52:16.800 --> 2:52:19.040 things that they'd have to jump through, Like one of 2:52:19.080 --> 2:52:21.480 them would be a believe to get an officer to 2:52:21.560 --> 2:52:25.480 write a recommendation and maybe CIA folks on into doing that. 2:52:26.200 --> 2:52:29.720 So following this, the US immediately began to call for 2:52:29.800 --> 2:52:32.720 a crackdown on Afghan migrants. And as we'll see more 2:52:32.800 --> 2:52:35.960 broadly on migrants. I think it's important to contextualize this 2:52:36.120 --> 2:52:39.840 globally because it's part of a crackdown on a nation 2:52:40.120 --> 2:52:42.280 which is seen nearly half a century of war. Right, 2:52:43.000 --> 2:52:46.440 ninety percent of the ten million people who fled Afghanistan 2:52:46.520 --> 2:52:50.640 reside in Pakistan or Iran. I've reported on this before 2:52:50.720 --> 2:52:53.400 on this show, but Iran has deported more than a 2:52:53.520 --> 2:52:58.320 million Afghan people since twenty twenty three, right, and they 2:52:59.120 --> 2:53:04.560 have very few pathways to permanent residency anywhere. Among refugees, 2:53:04.560 --> 2:53:08.840 Afghan people have it particularly difficult. On Tuesday, the us 2:53:09.240 --> 2:53:13.760 CIS Citizenship and Immigration Services issued a memo ordering its 2:53:13.800 --> 2:53:17.240 employees to place on hold all asylum, green card and 2:53:17.440 --> 2:53:23.480 citizenship form applications from quote unquote high risk countries and 2:53:23.600 --> 2:53:27.039 to investigate all arrivals from them since twenty twenty one. 2:53:27.800 --> 2:53:31.520 They are also placing a hold on all forms I 2:53:31.680 --> 2:53:34.640 five eight nine, which is the application for asylum and 2:53:34.800 --> 2:53:37.840 for withholding of for removal, regardless of where the person 2:53:37.959 --> 2:53:44.640 is from. So we have this specific halt on asylum 2:53:44.800 --> 2:53:47.720 for Afghan nationals that comes first, and then following that 2:53:48.400 --> 2:53:51.760 we have these nineteen high risk countries. The high risk 2:53:51.800 --> 2:53:55.119 countries are listed in Presidential Proclamation one oh nine four nine, 2:53:55.240 --> 2:53:58.080 which was issue back in June. I'll just read out 2:53:58.120 --> 2:54:01.520 the name, so people who are aware Afghanistan Burma, Chad, 2:54:01.600 --> 2:54:09.279 Republic of the Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Haiti, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Barundi, Cuba, Laos, 2:54:09.320 --> 2:54:14.720 Sierra Leone, Togo, Tookmenistan, and Venezuela. If you recall us 2:54:14.840 --> 2:54:17.960 covering this back, then you will remember that the reason 2:54:18.200 --> 2:54:24.560 cited in that proclamation is percentage of visa overstays. This 2:54:24.720 --> 2:54:27.680 doesn't have anything to do with risk, right, other than 2:54:27.840 --> 2:54:32.160 risk of overstaying one's visa. They do not justify the 2:54:32.320 --> 2:54:37.480 inclusion of these countries based on the potential for people 2:54:37.600 --> 2:54:41.520 there to do terrorism, right, at least not all of them. Yeah, 2:54:41.800 --> 2:54:44.240 it's worth pointing out. I guess that percentages visa overstates 2:54:44.280 --> 2:54:46.560 isn't that useful of a figure, because if you have 2:54:46.720 --> 2:54:49.920 ten people and one over stays, then that's only one person, 2:54:50.000 --> 2:54:52.200 But it's also a ten percent overstay rate, right, so 2:54:52.640 --> 2:54:57.119 it doesn't look at like raw numbers. Nonetheless, this would 2:54:57.280 --> 2:55:02.000 mean from the way I'm reading it, that any application 2:55:02.280 --> 2:55:05.680 with these people on it might be paused. So that 2:55:05.760 --> 2:55:09.840 could include like if someone had applied to have a 2:55:09.959 --> 2:55:13.360 spouse or family member come over and obtain legal status, right, 2:55:14.120 --> 2:55:16.120 or if someone was sponsoring someone or they were a 2:55:16.240 --> 2:55:19.720 duel national. They're like a bor Indian American for example. 2:55:20.400 --> 2:55:22.960 We will see how long this lasts. Trump has previously 2:55:23.080 --> 2:55:27.240 failed to get a total asylum ban, but for the meantime, 2:55:27.400 --> 2:55:30.800 like this is catastrophic for people attempting to seek asylum 2:55:31.040 --> 2:55:34.200 or permanent residency in the US. The only sort of 2:55:34.280 --> 2:55:37.080 upside that I can see on upside, but like you know, 2:55:37.320 --> 2:55:39.520 not terrible thing is that I don't think this would 2:55:39.520 --> 2:55:41.760 pause the work permit clock. So people have been listening 2:55:41.800 --> 2:55:43.959 to my series this week, they will have learned about 2:55:43.959 --> 2:55:46.720 the work permit clock. Right, because this is a government action, 2:55:46.959 --> 2:55:49.320 not an action from individuals. I don't think it would 2:55:49.320 --> 2:55:53.200 pause that clock. I guess to just wrap up the 2:55:53.680 --> 2:55:58.360 migrant crackdown stuff, Trump announced via a truth that quote, 2:55:58.800 --> 2:56:01.760 I am, as President of the United States here by terminating, 2:56:01.800 --> 2:56:06.720 effective immediately, the Temporary Protected Status program for Somalis in Minnesota. 2:56:07.320 --> 2:56:10.560 In the Thanksgiving message, he also repeated a number of 2:56:11.520 --> 2:56:15.800 claims about migrants and used a slurt to described him Walls. Yeah, 2:56:15.879 --> 2:56:17.400 he called him R word, and I think it is 2:56:17.440 --> 2:56:21.080 worth saying. Yeah. He has reiterated this multiple times on 2:56:21.280 --> 2:56:24.680 camera when Aspire reporters. Yeah, great stuff. And this is. 2:56:24.640 --> 2:56:26.880 Specifically in reference to reporting which has come out of 2:56:26.959 --> 2:56:31.880 Minnesota about a series of like fraudulent claims based on 2:56:32.240 --> 2:56:36.240 like COVID nineteen food and housing assistance programs this state 2:56:36.360 --> 2:56:39.720 was running, and people who were abusing those programs for 2:56:39.840 --> 2:56:43.879 their own financial benefit, and some of these specific instances 2:56:43.920 --> 2:56:46.279 are now being used to attack the entire Somali community 2:56:46.440 --> 2:56:47.120 in Minnesota. 2:56:47.600 --> 2:56:50.000 Yeah, it's worth noting that the percentage of the Somali 2:56:50.080 --> 2:56:53.840 community which is on TPS is very small. It's probably 2:56:53.879 --> 2:56:56.560 a few hundred people. I don't know how those COVID 2:56:56.560 --> 2:57:00.080 assistance programs like overlap with once immigration status, right, but 2:57:00.520 --> 2:57:03.400 it's worth noting that. It's also worth noting, like I've 2:57:03.480 --> 2:57:06.240 linked to the statue in the show notes, the Somali 2:57:06.320 --> 2:57:09.760 TPS extends until March of twenty twenty six. It probably 2:57:09.760 --> 2:57:12.199 won't be renewed then, Right, That's what the Trump administration 2:57:12.320 --> 2:57:15.440 has been doing, is sunsetting TPS is for all kinds 2:57:15.480 --> 2:57:18.600 of people. The statute does not give the president power 2:57:19.120 --> 2:57:21.840 to end the TPS, certainly not on a state by 2:57:21.959 --> 2:57:26.480 state basis. Right. Yeah, that's a good point. The notice 2:57:26.520 --> 2:57:29.360 of revocation would appear in the Federal Register, and the 2:57:29.480 --> 2:57:32.600 TPS would then have sixty days if it was being revoked, 2:57:32.600 --> 2:57:34.840 that people would have sixty days to act on that information. Right, 2:57:35.120 --> 2:57:37.720 you can't just post it. That's not how this works. 2:57:38.480 --> 2:57:41.000 As of today, when I check the Federal Register, the 2:57:41.120 --> 2:57:44.959 last entry for the Somali TPS with its renewal last year. 2:57:45.400 --> 2:57:47.440 So there appears to have been no actual legal action 2:57:47.600 --> 2:57:51.560 taken on this, But nonetheless there has been ICE enforcement. 2:57:51.680 --> 2:57:54.560 Right there are videos of ICE officers specifically asking people 2:57:54.600 --> 2:57:59.160 if they are Somali in Minnesota, which is troubling. I 2:57:59.240 --> 2:58:02.080 think that's about all the ICE crackdown stuff. I have 2:58:02.480 --> 2:58:06.119 guess Greg Bavino's in Louisiana, I don't know. So there's 2:58:06.160 --> 2:58:10.000 been a lot of discussion this week and House hearings 2:58:10.320 --> 2:58:14.640 about the drone strike that began the United States campaign 2:58:14.680 --> 2:58:18.959 of drone strikes against small boats in both the Caribbean 2:58:19.000 --> 2:58:23.400 and the Pacific. Right so called narco terrorists jam yeah, 2:58:23.959 --> 2:58:25.960 so yeah, I think so called is doing a lot 2:58:26.000 --> 2:58:27.920 of work there. There seems to be a lot of 2:58:27.959 --> 2:58:32.480 debate about whether Pete Hegscess directly ordered a second strike 2:58:32.600 --> 2:58:37.560 on survivors from the first strike. Excess had denied this, saying, quote, 2:58:37.879 --> 2:58:40.520 the thing was on fire and it exploded. You can't 2:58:40.560 --> 2:58:43.800 see anything. This is called the fog of war. That's 2:58:43.920 --> 2:58:47.080 not the fog before yet. It's nobody means you're not 2:58:47.240 --> 2:58:50.240 at war. You're in a suit in a room watching 2:58:50.320 --> 2:58:51.320 a TV screen. 2:58:51.680 --> 2:58:55.560 Also, it doesn't revert to like literal smoke edge fog. 2:58:55.720 --> 2:58:57.240 I'm sorry, and this is like absurd. 2:58:57.879 --> 2:59:00.920 Yeah, it's a ludicrous claim, right. Yes, there have been 2:59:00.959 --> 2:59:03.080 times where I have been in places like for instance, 2:59:03.120 --> 2:59:04.840 I was in Java a couple of years ago and 2:59:04.879 --> 2:59:07.040 we were being bombed. Right the way for me to 2:59:07.080 --> 2:59:09.440 get information, it was better for me to like go 2:59:09.600 --> 2:59:12.560 online and find stuff because the access to information on 2:59:12.600 --> 2:59:15.400 the ground in conflict times can be difficult. That's not 2:59:15.480 --> 2:59:18.280 the case when you're in DC watching a screen readout right. 2:59:18.920 --> 2:59:21.360 That is why we have people who are not in 2:59:21.480 --> 2:59:25.280 combat making these decisions. The White House has claimed that 2:59:25.320 --> 2:59:28.640 Admiral Bradley, who was JSOCK commander at the time, ordered 2:59:28.760 --> 2:59:32.120 the strike to Cotton Today claimed that two people in 2:59:32.200 --> 2:59:34.920 the video were trying to roll the boat to get 2:59:35.000 --> 2:59:37.520 back in the fight. What that's not a thing that 2:59:37.680 --> 2:59:39.680 one can do, like they're not in just to be 2:59:39.760 --> 2:59:42.400 clear they're not in like a kayak here, like this 2:59:42.520 --> 2:59:44.360 is in what I would call a cigarette boat, like 2:59:44.760 --> 2:59:47.960 a fast speedboat. You can't roll those like that. 2:59:48.600 --> 2:59:53.000 I don't understand they were not engaged in combat. 2:59:53.320 --> 2:59:55.760 No, Like, I don't see any evidence that these people 2:59:55.920 --> 2:59:59.120 were equipped to like certainly not to fight against a drone. 2:59:59.680 --> 2:59:59.840 Right. 3:00:00.600 --> 3:00:02.879 No, Why does this matter? 3:00:03.000 --> 3:00:03.080 Right? 3:00:03.120 --> 3:00:05.879 Because these people are dead regardless. 3:00:06.120 --> 3:00:06.280 Yeah. 3:00:06.600 --> 3:00:11.400 Why does the emphasis on this second strike matter more 3:00:11.720 --> 3:00:15.040 than simply attacking them the first time? Why is could 3:00:15.080 --> 3:00:18.080 this result in haig Seth being in yea a degree 3:00:18.160 --> 3:00:20.440 of trouble? Why there's a defensive about this second strike? 3:00:20.959 --> 3:00:23.840 Fair question? It is a very clear violation of the 3:00:23.959 --> 3:00:26.280 US military's own Law of War manual, which I have 3:00:26.400 --> 3:00:29.520 linked and the Geneva Conventions to kill someone who's demonstrably 3:00:30.240 --> 3:00:33.120 order to combat right out of combat i e. A 3:00:33.200 --> 3:00:36.520 shipwrecked sailor, i e. A wounded soldier who's thrown away 3:00:36.520 --> 3:00:40.440 their weapon. These people were very clearly not fighting. From 3:00:40.480 --> 3:00:43.080 every report that we've seen, this has been part of 3:00:43.120 --> 3:00:46.720 the way that war is conducted for centuries, like picking 3:00:46.800 --> 3:00:49.920 up shipwrecked sailors after sinking about, etc. I'm not saying 3:00:49.959 --> 3:00:53.160 this has always happened. The US has done double tap 3:00:53.240 --> 3:00:57.360 strikes for a long time. Yeah, there has been I 3:00:57.400 --> 3:00:59.600 should just clarify, guess there has been some debate about 3:00:59.600 --> 3:01:02.920 the SEMA antics of the word double tap. First of all, 3:01:03.360 --> 3:01:07.000 that's not important. What is important is that they killed 3:01:07.080 --> 3:01:09.760 people who were not fighting, who are out of combat, 3:01:09.800 --> 3:01:13.440 and who are clinging to a burning shipwrecked boat. A 3:01:13.520 --> 3:01:17.920 double tap does generally refer to a strike and then 3:01:17.959 --> 3:01:20.760 a subsequent strike which is focused on killing the people 3:01:20.840 --> 3:01:24.040 who came to rescue the people hitting the first strike. 3:01:24.920 --> 3:01:28.200 There was no one to rescue these people. But I 3:01:28.560 --> 3:01:32.200 don't think that, like, that's not what's at stake here, right, 3:01:32.560 --> 3:01:34.840 That is, it doesn't matter what term we use to 3:01:34.879 --> 3:01:39.000 describe this other than war crime. There were double taped 3:01:39.080 --> 3:01:40.720 strikes at the time that I spoke about when I 3:01:40.760 --> 3:01:42.760 was in ri Java, where they did bomb ambulance crews, 3:01:42.800 --> 3:01:46.240 and yeah, that shit is absolutely reprehensible. But what happened 3:01:46.280 --> 3:01:49.200 here is also reprehensible as it's being recounted to us. 3:01:49.320 --> 3:01:52.640 Eventually this video will come out, I'm sure. More broadly, 3:01:52.720 --> 3:01:55.760 the United States seems to be signaling intent to continue 3:01:55.840 --> 3:01:59.480 its campaign against my daughter, saying it will begin land 3:01:59.560 --> 3:02:04.360 strikes quote unquote soon. What yeah, like this is extremely worrying, 3:02:04.640 --> 3:02:08.320 right like, yeah, tramp of course a great peace president 3:02:08.400 --> 3:02:10.760 who has ended what is it like nine wars? Trump 3:02:10.879 --> 3:02:15.440 the dove, I think is what he personally perfect. It's 3:02:15.480 --> 3:02:19.200 a hell of a visual. The people of Venezuela are 3:02:19.200 --> 3:02:21.000 the ones who are going to suffer, right Like, It's 3:02:21.080 --> 3:02:23.840 not going to be the regime officials for the most part. Yeah, 3:02:24.560 --> 3:02:29.720 Venezuela's a vast, mountainous jungle country. It's an easy place 3:02:29.840 --> 3:02:33.600 for us to do land war, not a particularly easy 3:02:33.760 --> 3:02:37.480 place for US to do drone warfare either. You know, 3:02:37.640 --> 3:02:40.200 I've written a lot about the United States Duran campaign 3:02:40.280 --> 3:02:42.560 in Syria and the disaster that was right in the 3:02:42.600 --> 3:02:47.279 amount of what they considered to be acceptable civilian casualties. 3:02:48.280 --> 3:02:52.000 We don't have any indications from this DoD or like 3:02:52.240 --> 3:02:54.600 from HEXF that like he will seek to minimize those 3:02:54.760 --> 3:02:57.320 right like this this could be shaping up to be 3:02:57.320 --> 3:02:58.960 a disaster for the people of Venezuela. 3:02:59.400 --> 3:03:01.560 I mean, yeah, I find it unlike that haig Seth 3:03:01.600 --> 3:03:04.400 will actually fall into trouble international law because of this. 3:03:04.920 --> 3:03:07.520 People always get away, and I mean you can see 3:03:07.680 --> 3:03:11.800 how Trump already pardoned number of work criminals earlier this 3:03:11.959 --> 3:03:14.800 year and in his first administration, right, and in his 3:03:14.879 --> 3:03:15.760 first administration. 3:03:16.040 --> 3:03:17.440 Yeah, as much fun. 3:03:17.280 --> 3:03:20.440 As it is to be like haha, like this, I 3:03:20.560 --> 3:03:22.760 like to see old peate haig Seth wiggles way out 3:03:22.760 --> 3:03:23.320 of this jam. 3:03:23.760 --> 3:03:26.240 Yes he will. I think he's expected to do so 3:03:26.400 --> 3:03:30.560 quite easily. I mean international doesn't exist for people in 3:03:30.640 --> 3:03:33.240 the global North. It's a thing that they do to 3:03:33.320 --> 3:03:36.840 prosecute African people for the most part. But yes, very 3:03:36.920 --> 3:03:39.600 unlikely that we will see hag Seth in the Hague 3:03:39.640 --> 3:03:43.440 for this still bad though. We'll go on another ad 3:03:43.520 --> 3:03:44.600 break and be right back. 3:03:58.040 --> 3:03:59.280 All right, we are back. 3:04:00.400 --> 3:04:03.440 We would like to now expand and clarify some of 3:04:03.560 --> 3:04:08.520 our previous previous discussion of Zoron's White has meeting with 3:04:08.800 --> 3:04:14.160 Donald Trump and some statements around ice raids and ice detainers. 3:04:15.040 --> 3:04:18.960 Let's start by clarifying this one hundred and seventy serious 3:04:19.160 --> 3:04:23.560 crimes number. Yeah, while answering a question, Zoran said, quote, 3:04:24.040 --> 3:04:26.400 we discussed ice and New York City, and I spoke 3:04:26.440 --> 3:04:28.640 about how the laws we have in New York City 3:04:29.040 --> 3:04:31.520 allowed the city government to speak to the federal administration 3:04:31.680 --> 3:04:36.600 about roughly one hundred and seventy serious crimes unquote. This 3:04:36.840 --> 3:04:41.400 one hundred and seventy number is in reference to Local 3:04:41.600 --> 3:04:46.480 Law fifty eight Administrative Code nine Dash one three to one, 3:04:46.920 --> 3:04:50.760 which was passed in twenty fourteen and strengthened New York 3:04:50.920 --> 3:04:56.360 sanctuary laws and required that they only honor ice detainers 3:04:56.440 --> 3:04:59.840 when presented with the judicial warrant issued by an article 3:04:59.879 --> 3:05:03.840 time refederal judge or federal magistrate judge based on probable cause, 3:05:04.120 --> 3:05:07.480 and when the subject of the detainer and warrant is 3:05:07.640 --> 3:05:11.840 either listed in a terrorist database or has been convicted 3:05:12.600 --> 3:05:17.560 of a violent or serious crime. Now, the term violent 3:05:17.640 --> 3:05:21.480 or serious crime refers to a list of approximately one 3:05:21.640 --> 3:05:25.160 hundred and seventy crimes which is listed in Local Law 3:05:25.280 --> 3:05:28.480 fifty four. I think there's a five year limit as well, right, 3:05:28.600 --> 3:05:31.879 Like it has to be within five years. So there's 3:05:31.959 --> 3:05:36.080 a number of like they like stack on each other. Yeah, 3:05:36.120 --> 3:05:39.000 Like there's This is just a one of many like 3:05:39.120 --> 3:05:43.280 amendments strengthening their sanctuary laws. And I'm mentioning it specifically 3:05:43.360 --> 3:05:45.800 to clarify where the one hundred and seventy number comes 3:05:45.879 --> 3:05:48.600 from and where people can find all of the criminal 3:05:48.680 --> 3:05:53.119 codes that are listed, which is again, approximately one hundred 3:05:53.160 --> 3:05:56.360 and seventy crimes. Yeah, and the change that this local 3:05:56.440 --> 3:05:57.840 law did is that this person doesn't have to just 3:05:57.879 --> 3:05:59.760 be accused of one of these crimes, but actually be 3:05:59.840 --> 3:06:02.240 can or listed in a terroor stateabase. 3:06:02.720 --> 3:06:06.440 Yeah. And these are mostly like violent felets. Yeah. The 3:06:06.560 --> 3:06:09.600 law that Garrison refers to lists them by penal code number. 3:06:10.160 --> 3:06:13.680 So I'm working on expanding those into a list of 3:06:13.959 --> 3:06:17.680 words that human beings can understand. Yeah, sure, just because 3:06:17.720 --> 3:06:23.720 I think people generally don't understand sanctuary protections. Sanctuary laws 3:06:23.760 --> 3:06:25.920 are not like a They're not the same in every state, 3:06:25.959 --> 3:06:27.879 They're not the same in every city in every state, 3:06:28.560 --> 3:06:31.000 and I think a lot of people have an understanding 3:06:31.040 --> 3:06:33.400 of them, which could do with being improved. So I'm 3:06:33.400 --> 3:06:35.000 going to probably do a whole episode on that. I 3:06:35.080 --> 3:06:38.480 think with regard to the list of crimes in New York, 3:06:38.520 --> 3:06:40.480 I would prefer to do that as a print piece 3:06:41.280 --> 3:06:43.320 because it's just better if someone could find it on 3:06:43.400 --> 3:06:45.600 the internet, and that doesn't work as well with podcasts 3:06:46.120 --> 3:06:49.720 other stuff regarding this, Just so people are aware, right like, federally, 3:06:49.879 --> 3:06:52.600 one could be deported for a huge range of crimes 3:06:53.000 --> 3:06:55.960 from violent crime to thefto over ten thousand dollars to 3:06:56.040 --> 3:06:59.840 a vast range of quote unquote crimes involving moral turpitude. 3:07:00.480 --> 3:07:02.440 The problem, of course, is that we have fifty different 3:07:02.440 --> 3:07:04.440 states with fifty different sets of laws, and we have 3:07:04.600 --> 3:07:08.080 to map federal regulations onto them. There is some Supreme 3:07:08.160 --> 3:07:12.000 Court case law about how we do that. Crimes involving 3:07:12.040 --> 3:07:16.480 moral turpitude can be things that you might consider extraordinarily minor, 3:07:16.760 --> 3:07:19.400 like turnstile hopping. Yeah, I'm going to do a whole 3:07:19.440 --> 3:07:22.520 episode on these, because again, I think you could see 3:07:22.879 --> 3:07:26.240 in that press conference, so when Zoran spoke about immigration, 3:07:26.440 --> 3:07:29.960 Trump tried to move the topic to deporting criminals. Yeah, 3:07:30.040 --> 3:07:33.199 and the people who are being deported as criminals, whilst 3:07:33.240 --> 3:07:36.119 the DHS twitter feed wants to highlight people who've been 3:07:36.440 --> 3:07:39.360 convicted of murder and things, and that's by far look 3:07:39.360 --> 3:07:42.360 at an EDU case. Yeah, And I think that's why 3:07:42.440 --> 3:07:45.080 he mentioned the one hundred and seventy like serious urvolent 3:07:45.160 --> 3:07:47.840 crimes and like specifically that those are the ones that 3:07:47.920 --> 3:07:52.880 the New York Sentuary laws do have this quote unquote 3:07:52.920 --> 3:07:57.160 cooperation on and like in a meeting, Zorn said that 3:07:57.400 --> 3:08:00.240 he and Trump talked about how current ice operation in 3:08:00.520 --> 3:08:02.920 New York City, I quote unquote very little to do 3:08:03.680 --> 3:08:09.440 with serious crime, with these crimes listed on these detainers. Yeah, 3:08:09.520 --> 3:08:11.920 and that's a broad thing across the United States, right, 3:08:12.000 --> 3:08:14.360 Like even we spoke about this a couple of weeks ago. 3:08:14.440 --> 3:08:16.080 But like, if you look at Charlotte right where they 3:08:16.120 --> 3:08:19.520 have they are legally bound to honor all ICE detainers 3:08:19.600 --> 3:08:22.680 by HB ten, you've still got Ice out and about 3:08:22.760 --> 3:08:26.840 raiding people, and you have sheriffs complaining about Ice not 3:08:27.040 --> 3:08:30.360 picking people up right the detainer, I guess I should 3:08:30.360 --> 3:08:32.840 explain what a detainer is as well. A detainer is 3:08:32.920 --> 3:08:36.360 an extra forty eight hour hold. It doesn't mean that 3:08:36.440 --> 3:08:38.720 you just like lock them up forever. It means that 3:08:38.760 --> 3:08:40.480 you hold them for forty eight hours such that ICE 3:08:40.560 --> 3:08:44.320 can come in and collect the person. Because ICE is 3:08:44.440 --> 3:08:47.640 so focused on I don't know what you want to 3:08:47.640 --> 3:08:50.240 call it, grabbing people off the street. Yeah, it seems 3:08:50.280 --> 3:08:53.600 that they're not collecting these people. There's been some pushback, 3:08:53.760 --> 3:08:58.400 like on straight up economic grounds in some states because 3:08:58.440 --> 3:09:02.000 the detaining people is quite expensive, right, so detaining people 3:09:02.040 --> 3:09:04.440 for long periods of time and it's just not showing up. 3:09:04.560 --> 3:09:07.680 I can see how not to give support to sheriff's 3:09:07.680 --> 3:09:11.200 departments or whatever. But like rural sheriff's departments which are 3:09:11.240 --> 3:09:14.080 on limited budgets, would start to get pissed off after 3:09:14.160 --> 3:09:17.000 a time about holding people. But yeah, that is what 3:09:17.120 --> 3:09:22.120 a detainer is, got it. ICE doesn't necessarily have to 3:09:22.440 --> 3:09:25.199 abide by local sanctuary laws. And what we have seen 3:09:25.320 --> 3:09:28.560 is that, like, cops are cops, and they will make mistakes, 3:09:28.760 --> 3:09:31.720 and if someone gets handed over, you can't take them 3:09:31.840 --> 3:09:33.960 back if the cops fuck that up. 3:09:34.520 --> 3:09:36.240 Yeah, I mean, and this is part of the other 3:09:36.520 --> 3:09:40.080 things that Zaron campaigned on to like strength and sanctuary protections, 3:09:40.160 --> 3:09:44.560 And specifically in the section of his policies on quote 3:09:44.640 --> 3:09:47.960 unquote trump proofing New York City, he talks about like 3:09:48.120 --> 3:09:51.360 ending a legal ICE cooperation on Riker's Island or ICE 3:09:51.480 --> 3:09:53.840 is currently stationed, which does go against sanctuary laws, and 3:09:54.240 --> 3:09:56.760 you've talked about ending that as well as providing one 3:09:56.840 --> 3:10:00.520 hundred and sixty five million dollars in funding for immigration 3:10:00.600 --> 3:10:02.760 legal defend services in the cities, which would be a 3:10:02.840 --> 3:10:06.280 massive increase and what is currently provided. Yeah, as well 3:10:06.280 --> 3:10:08.920 as just like limiting interactions with police, right is the 3:10:08.959 --> 3:10:11.160 more you interact with the police, the more likely is 3:10:11.200 --> 3:10:14.840 that you might accidentally or quote unquote accidentally get put 3:10:14.879 --> 3:10:16.640 into trouble even though you know, police in New York 3:10:16.640 --> 3:10:18.200 are not supposed to ever ask someone that what their 3:10:18.240 --> 3:10:22.200 immigration status is or or cooperate with ice requests that 3:10:22.280 --> 3:10:26.280 do not you know, fall under this specific container law. 3:10:26.600 --> 3:10:28.720 But I mean in terms of like ways to limit 3:10:28.720 --> 3:10:31.640 interactions with police, this goes back to some very basic 3:10:31.720 --> 3:10:34.760 ideas on like, you know, addressing the economic conditions that 3:10:34.840 --> 3:10:37.440 create crime in the first place, as well as the 3:10:37.520 --> 3:10:40.760 Department of Community Safety, which is soron intends to create 3:10:41.080 --> 3:10:43.800 which will provide new mental health services, crisis response, and 3:10:43.879 --> 3:10:46.680 homeless outreach outside of the NYPD. 3:10:47.240 --> 3:10:51.560 Yeah, Like, not criminalizing homelessness and not criminalizing parking are 3:10:51.640 --> 3:10:54.920 probably two of the most meaningful things that you can 3:10:55.000 --> 3:10:58.920 do to limit police interaction a specifically police interactions from 3:10:59.040 --> 3:10:59.920 documented people. 3:11:00.520 --> 3:11:02.440 Yeah, and I mean in terms of like turnstile hopping 3:11:02.520 --> 3:11:05.400 or like fair evation. It's it's complicated in New York. Mean, 3:11:05.560 --> 3:11:09.160 this isn't gonna be something that they honor a detainer for. 3:11:09.400 --> 3:11:11.199 But in terms of like you know, just talking about 3:11:11.200 --> 3:11:14.119 like the Yeah, how weird and specific each state's laws 3:11:14.160 --> 3:11:17.040 are like turnstile hopping can be a misdemeanor crime in 3:11:17.120 --> 3:11:19.400 New York due to like theft of services. 3:11:19.879 --> 3:11:22.080 It can also just be a civil in fracture. 3:11:22.120 --> 3:11:24.720 It can, but it's up to the officer to decide 3:11:25.200 --> 3:11:28.320 whether they want this to turn into a criminal misdemeanor 3:11:28.600 --> 3:11:30.720 or a civil infraction and just pay one hundred dollars fine. 3:11:31.720 --> 3:11:34.080 Even this is like cause confusion among like immigrants and 3:11:34.160 --> 3:11:38.120 immigrant rights attorneys over like dealing with like old old 3:11:38.240 --> 3:11:40.480 fair ofvation cases and being like, does this now like 3:11:40.600 --> 3:11:44.680 disqualify me from certain things or does this, like you know, 3:11:45.000 --> 3:11:47.320 present a threat of being deported if I if I 3:11:47.400 --> 3:11:50.360 declare this and like whatever, like citizenship or the green 3:11:50.400 --> 3:11:53.720 card meeting, they may they may have scheduled. Yeah, and yeah, 3:11:54.080 --> 3:11:58.320 not not criminalizing fair ovation would be huge. And if 3:11:58.320 --> 3:12:00.600 someone's able to make you know, free buses, that'll do, 3:12:00.920 --> 3:12:04.560 you know, a considerable dent in preventing cases where ferivation 3:12:04.640 --> 3:12:07.720 could be used as a pretext federally support someone. 3:12:08.160 --> 3:12:10.600 Yeah, yeah, because that person or that person could leave 3:12:10.640 --> 3:12:12.280 New York and be somewhere else, right, or they could 3:12:12.280 --> 3:12:14.400 just get swept up in ice workplace raid, and that 3:12:14.480 --> 3:12:16.840 could be used as a pretext like there are many 3:12:16.920 --> 3:12:21.160 reasons why even if it's sanctuary protected, that person could 3:12:21.160 --> 3:12:22.800 still be vulnerable because of that prosecution. 3:12:22.959 --> 3:12:25.320 Like you said, yeah, I mean, and then those sorts 3:12:25.320 --> 3:12:27.520 of raids are still happening in New York. 3:12:27.760 --> 3:12:30.720 An attempted rate happened in Connell Street. Yeah, last week. 3:12:30.760 --> 3:12:32.920 It was prevented from being carried out by people who 3:12:33.000 --> 3:12:36.320 literally blocked Ice from leaving the parking garage that they 3:12:36.320 --> 3:12:39.760 were in, and the NYPD then arrested a few protesters. 3:12:40.240 --> 3:12:43.199 It remains to be seen how Zoron will handle incidents 3:12:43.240 --> 3:12:44.680 like this going forward. He still does not become the 3:12:44.720 --> 3:12:48.360 mayor for but thirty days, right, but a spokesperson for 3:12:49.080 --> 3:12:51.280 the mayor elect has said that Zoron quote has made 3:12:51.320 --> 3:12:53.360 it clear, including to the President, that these raids are 3:12:53.440 --> 3:12:56.119 cruel and inhumane and failed to advanced genuine public safety. 3:12:56.200 --> 3:12:58.360 New York City's more than three million immigrants are central 3:12:58.400 --> 3:13:01.240 to our city strength, retality, and success. The Mayor Electromaine 3:13:01.240 --> 3:13:04.359 Steadfast and his emumitment to protecting the rights and dignity 3:13:04.760 --> 3:13:07.440 of every single New Yorker, upholding our sanctuary laws, and 3:13:07.720 --> 3:13:11.800 de escalation rather than use of unnecessary force unquote, believe 3:13:11.840 --> 3:13:14.480 that last sentence could be read as in reference to 3:13:14.600 --> 3:13:18.720 the police conduct while handling antiites protests, yeah, quote unquote 3:13:18.800 --> 3:13:21.720 de escalation rather than use of unnecessary force. But this 3:13:21.840 --> 3:13:24.440 is not something that they have talked about much. 3:13:24.840 --> 3:13:27.920 Curious to see when he's actually the mayor, what will 3:13:27.959 --> 3:13:28.400 happen here? 3:13:28.920 --> 3:13:31.320 Yeah, yeah, I mean, and that's that's that's a part 3:13:31.400 --> 3:13:33.520 of like what governing is going to look like in 3:13:33.600 --> 3:13:36.440 this case, which is kind of sure, it's hard to say. 3:13:36.480 --> 3:13:38.200 We've never really had a high profile like you know, 3:13:38.360 --> 3:13:42.600 dsa person who previously advocated like defunded or abolishing the 3:13:42.640 --> 3:13:43.880 police become the mayor of a city. 3:13:44.400 --> 3:13:47.199 Yeah, And I think this kind. 3:13:47.080 --> 3:13:49.279 Of relates to like so much of what the project 3:13:49.360 --> 3:13:51.960 in New York is around New York City DSA and 3:13:52.040 --> 3:13:55.280 zoron to rather than just like you know, be like 3:13:55.440 --> 3:13:59.039 chasing electoral cars and then crashing once you have control. 3:13:59.360 --> 3:14:01.960 Exortins weren't just in like actually running the city and 3:14:02.040 --> 3:14:05.320 providing a legitimate example that democratic socialst policies can deliver 3:14:05.400 --> 3:14:07.440 on promises for workers and improve life in New York. 3:14:08.200 --> 3:14:10.040 And if this project succeeds, it can be pointed to 3:14:10.160 --> 3:14:13.600 and replicated by others. And there's a very strict focus 3:14:13.720 --> 3:14:15.680 on like making sure that he's able to succeed on 3:14:16.680 --> 3:14:19.680 a section of like economic policies. He's not in a 3:14:19.720 --> 3:14:22.520 federal position, right He's not running on abolishing ice, as 3:14:22.600 --> 3:14:24.240 he can't as the mayor of New York And like, 3:14:24.440 --> 3:14:26.440 I think it's very unclear right now, like what a 3:14:26.560 --> 3:14:30.120 politics of abolishing ice really looks like outside of like 3:14:30.200 --> 3:14:35.879 this like contemplative, like reflective and like judgmental politics, which 3:14:36.000 --> 3:14:38.960 falls further and further away from like taking steps to 3:14:39.360 --> 3:14:39.800 do action. 3:14:40.080 --> 3:14:42.600 Right, Yeah, I mean a politics abolishing GUS looks like 3:14:42.640 --> 3:14:45.080 the United States up until two thousand and one, right, 3:14:45.400 --> 3:14:46.520 like we didn't have ice. 3:14:46.879 --> 3:14:49.400 Well, but like from now, like what would it mean 3:14:49.560 --> 3:14:52.000 to actually stop the quotations completely? 3:14:52.120 --> 3:14:54.080 Like what will that look like? What can be done 3:14:54.120 --> 3:14:55.320 politically to do that? Right? 3:14:55.680 --> 3:14:58.360 And Zorin's not doing this because Soron's the mayor of 3:14:58.400 --> 3:15:01.920 New York City. He cannot run for president. People in 3:15:02.040 --> 3:15:04.960 his orbit could run for the House and set it 3:15:05.200 --> 3:15:08.160 and push forward bills to do this, and they might 3:15:08.280 --> 3:15:12.160 over time, But like there is a difference between being 3:15:12.200 --> 3:15:14.160 the mayor of a local municipality and like what are 3:15:14.360 --> 3:15:19.240 legitimate politics of actually stopping our current process of deportations, 3:15:19.360 --> 3:15:21.400 what that really looks like and how to actually achieve that, 3:15:21.680 --> 3:15:24.840 which a very little thought is being put towards among 3:15:24.920 --> 3:15:28.240 the American left right now, And it kind of it 3:15:28.320 --> 3:15:31.800 falls back on these like reflective or like contemplative statements. 3:15:32.480 --> 3:15:34.760 Yeah, there have been proposals put forward for a long 3:15:34.879 --> 3:15:38.160 time on what it would look like to create better 3:15:38.240 --> 3:15:41.760 legal pathways and fewer deportations, right, like those who existed. Sure, 3:15:41.920 --> 3:15:44.600 like you can look specifically at what people were trying 3:15:44.680 --> 3:15:46.880 to get Biden to do in twenty twenty, right, which 3:15:46.879 --> 3:15:49.640 he obviously completely failed to do and in effect made 3:15:49.680 --> 3:15:54.560 things much worse. But like those policy proposals exist, and 3:15:54.600 --> 3:15:57.280 they're well thought out and well planned from people who've 3:15:57.280 --> 3:16:01.320 been working into space for decades. Right, Danni can do 3:16:01.920 --> 3:16:03.800 is like what they call in political science, like the 3:16:03.879 --> 3:16:07.879 coketails effect, totally right. As a very popular candidate, people 3:16:07.959 --> 3:16:11.039 can ride on his coattails. And I think it's important 3:16:11.080 --> 3:16:16.480 in that sense that he continues rhetorically to oppose what 3:16:16.640 --> 3:16:18.880 Ice is doing, which, like that statement you read, did right, 3:16:19.040 --> 3:16:23.040 But it's very important that he if he's able to 3:16:23.120 --> 3:16:27.360 successfully have his administration in New York and we will 3:16:27.400 --> 3:16:29.240 see how shit goes in that regard. But if he 3:16:29.480 --> 3:16:32.320 is and there is an electoral project that can arise 3:16:32.400 --> 3:16:35.320 based on that, then like it is very important that 3:16:35.360 --> 3:16:37.760 they remain in lockstep that like, we are not going back, 3:16:37.840 --> 3:16:40.720 We're not gonna have a Democrat com president in twenty 3:16:40.760 --> 3:16:43.160 eight and just do a Joe Biden again right where 3:16:43.240 --> 3:16:46.000 things get worse. So in that sense, I think it 3:16:46.160 --> 3:16:49.200 like it needs to be something that everyone in that 3:16:49.480 --> 3:16:54.320 movement retains. I guess, like not uniformity is the wrong word, 3:16:54.360 --> 3:16:55.520 you know, but you know what I mean literally that 3:16:55.920 --> 3:16:58.400 it continues to be something of a norse staff for 3:16:58.520 --> 3:17:01.400 whatever is emerging to the left of the DNC. 3:17:02.280 --> 3:17:04.720 Yeah, And like I did also, like I guess clarify 3:17:04.800 --> 3:17:07.440 some things I would have said last week and not 3:17:07.720 --> 3:17:12.080 claiming that sheerly the the process of honoring these detainers 3:17:12.160 --> 3:17:16.080 will like vaguely in a causal sense, results in less 3:17:16.360 --> 3:17:19.320 ice raids in the city. I mean, these detainers are 3:17:19.840 --> 3:17:22.720 they are legally required, even under sanctuary laws, to be 3:17:23.800 --> 3:17:26.640 to be followed. And I think part of what Zora 3:17:26.800 --> 3:17:31.360 was doing was trying to redirect the president's thought away 3:17:31.560 --> 3:17:35.920 from these larger raids to these specific serious crimes. And 3:17:36.040 --> 3:17:38.120 I think in some of this is based on Trump 3:17:38.240 --> 3:17:39.840 kind of has like the last person in the room 3:17:39.920 --> 3:17:44.080 syndrome off He kind of just likes or or follows 3:17:44.200 --> 3:17:47.320 or parrots whoever the last person in the room was. 3:17:47.440 --> 3:17:48.520 And like what they told him. 3:17:48.920 --> 3:17:51.800 I'm not saying that like honoring these these legally required 3:17:51.840 --> 3:17:54.160 detainers is like is simply harmon direction in that sense. 3:17:54.600 --> 3:17:58.800 This is more so in reference to the ongoing negotiations 3:17:58.840 --> 3:18:01.920 between Momdani and Trump to limit ICE action in the 3:18:02.000 --> 3:18:05.400 city outside of these detainer requests, which do address serious crime. 3:18:05.760 --> 3:18:08.080 Which Trump and Mom Donnie saw as a point of 3:18:08.200 --> 3:18:10.360 commonality on is they want New York to be a 3:18:10.400 --> 3:18:13.560 safe place for people, focusing on that as opposed to 3:18:14.160 --> 3:18:17.120 these general ICE raids. And there's been like some slight 3:18:17.200 --> 3:18:20.320 movement on this. Raids have continued, but there's been slight 3:18:20.480 --> 3:18:23.200 movement in terms of Trump at least for now, pulling 3:18:23.200 --> 3:18:26.200 out of his plans to deploy National Guard to assist ICE. YEA, 3:18:26.320 --> 3:18:28.480 and like that is the single point where we see 3:18:28.560 --> 3:18:31.400 some movement on. And this will be something that in 3:18:31.480 --> 3:18:33.920 terms of raids like on Connall Street. Well, we'll see 3:18:33.959 --> 3:18:35.960 if this actually makes a larger impact once he takes 3:18:36.040 --> 3:18:38.360 office and continues these negotiations. 3:18:39.560 --> 3:18:43.440 If National Guard or assisting ICE, is that like because 3:18:43.560 --> 3:18:47.640 they can't directly do the immigration enforcement, right, Well, I 3:18:47.680 --> 3:18:49.800 mean assisting ICE in the way that they haven't washed 3:18:49.879 --> 3:18:52.160 in DC. Yeah, like in terms of like quote unquote 3:18:52.200 --> 3:18:54.360 protecting officers or quote yes. 3:18:54.520 --> 3:18:57.480 Yeah, and you know the proposals to do so in 3:18:57.600 --> 3:19:02.440 Chicago and Portland, which are cotton like legal limbo. But 3:19:02.480 --> 3:19:04.560 I mean that the Portland was more specifically for the 3:19:04.600 --> 3:19:07.720 ICE facility, Yeah, protecting federal building, this kind of deal, 3:19:08.040 --> 3:19:10.240 versus in Washington, d C. They were like on patrol 3:19:10.320 --> 3:19:12.160 with ICE, Like they were like roving. 3:19:11.920 --> 3:19:14.080 Around and doing roadblocks and shit. 3:19:14.320 --> 3:19:16.200 Yeah, and like much of this quote unquote crime crackdown, 3:19:16.200 --> 3:19:19.320 as Bridgetes reported on our show, really is actually a 3:19:19.400 --> 3:19:22.080 way to do like enhanced immigration enforcement. 3:19:22.879 --> 3:19:23.080 Yeah. 3:19:23.320 --> 3:19:24.840 There's a lot of fear in New York and discussions 3:19:24.840 --> 3:19:26.200 with people in New York and like how are we 3:19:26.280 --> 3:19:28.480 going to handle this happening here? 3:19:28.760 --> 3:19:30.800 Yeah? And this is like the one point of moment 3:19:30.840 --> 3:19:33.039 that we've seen is Trump pulling out of these plans, 3:19:33.080 --> 3:19:35.360 which previously we're quite certain he wants to like go 3:19:35.600 --> 3:19:39.000 one by one and like invade these cities. Yeah, New York. 3:19:39.080 --> 3:19:42.680 You also have the like the added factor that like 3:19:42.840 --> 3:19:46.160 New York is technically in that border enforcement zone, right, 3:19:46.440 --> 3:19:49.000 So I mean as is Chicago. Yeah, I guess most 3:19:49.040 --> 3:19:52.640 of these places have been Chicago, Portland is Los Angeles. 3:19:52.800 --> 3:19:56.080 Is because of the Laketown Los Angeles, they deployed border patrol. Right, 3:19:56.120 --> 3:19:59.039 that's another thing that it could happen in New York. 3:19:59.120 --> 3:20:02.480 But like the far hasn't on a massive scale, but yeah, 3:20:02.800 --> 3:20:04.520 it remains to be seen. Right, Like Trump has this 3:20:04.800 --> 3:20:09.880 like operation at Large that Buveno controls that he could 3:20:09.920 --> 3:20:12.760 deploy to New York and it'll be yeah, provided to Boston, 3:20:12.800 --> 3:20:16.440 where Michelle Bouch has like taken a different approach, right, 3:20:16.720 --> 3:20:20.439 like and yeah, I guess we'll We'll have to continue 3:20:21.120 --> 3:20:23.720 waiting and seeing. It's really heartening to me that people 3:20:23.800 --> 3:20:25.560 showed up in New York as well, you know, like 3:20:26.160 --> 3:20:28.120 oh yeah, that people in New York showed up on 3:20:28.200 --> 3:20:31.440 Canal Street like that is uh yeah, and prevented ICE 3:20:31.480 --> 3:20:35.440 from doing any detentions or arrests. Yeah, And I think 3:20:35.560 --> 3:20:38.320 like they like the ICE eventually had to leave to 3:20:38.360 --> 3:20:40.080 New Jersey, Is that right? Like they had to go 3:20:40.440 --> 3:20:45.400 through the tunnel or whatever, like the tunnel, yeah, the 3:20:45.440 --> 3:20:48.960 tunnel of shade. Yeah yeah, but like that that is 3:20:49.720 --> 3:20:51.280 like that is what kept those people safe. 3:20:51.320 --> 3:20:51.520 Rightly. 3:20:51.520 --> 3:20:53.400 They didn't have to wait for Eric Adams or man 3:20:53.480 --> 3:20:56.160 Downey or anyone else, like it was members of their community. 3:20:56.440 --> 3:20:56.640 Yeah. 3:20:56.920 --> 3:21:01.720 Yeah, which is cool talking of communities. They want to 3:21:01.959 --> 3:21:04.320 want to talk about the campus campus community and have 3:21:04.440 --> 3:21:07.160 freedom of speech. He's under threat on our campuses. Well, 3:21:07.200 --> 3:21:10.560 freedom of religion is under threat, James, Okay, religion to 3:21:11.680 --> 3:21:17.280 freedom to so tired, freedom to tire, to cite a 3:21:17.440 --> 3:21:19.520 vibe space interpretation of the religion. 3:21:19.560 --> 3:21:22.520 I mean, yeah, this unfortunately, this story did infringe upon 3:21:22.640 --> 3:21:27.080 my freedom to not read horrible college essays Garrison. 3:21:27.160 --> 3:21:28.960 That is a freedom that I have not had for 3:21:29.080 --> 3:21:29.640 many years. 3:21:30.560 --> 3:21:32.400 No, no, and this is why I'm interested in your 3:21:32.440 --> 3:21:35.800 thoughts on this. A transgraduate instructor has been suspended from 3:21:35.840 --> 3:21:40.200 the University of Oklahoma after issuing a failing grade to 3:21:40.280 --> 3:21:42.600 a students assignment right a six hundred and fifty word 3:21:42.640 --> 3:21:45.440 response to a study on if gender conformity is linked 3:21:45.480 --> 3:21:49.720 to popularity or bullying in middle school. This twenty year 3:21:49.760 --> 3:21:53.880 old psychology major, a junior, wrote in her response that 3:21:53.959 --> 3:21:57.720 she does not consider bullying a problem because quote God 3:21:57.920 --> 3:22:01.119 made male and female and made us different from each 3:22:01.160 --> 3:22:06.680 other on purpose and for a purpose unquote. The response 3:22:06.840 --> 3:22:11.160 was entirely personal opinion. It does not even properly cite 3:22:11.200 --> 3:22:14.280 specific like scriptures in the Bible. If, like, if I 3:22:14.480 --> 3:22:17.520 was to write like an unhinged like like a Christian response, 3:22:18.080 --> 3:22:20.199 least the least you could do is site specific things. 3:22:20.360 --> 3:22:23.560 Should that be valid? No, but even this was not done. 3:22:23.560 --> 3:22:24.959 It's like Bible fanfic. 3:22:25.400 --> 3:22:27.199 These are the vibes I get from genius. 3:22:27.200 --> 3:22:31.760 Well, yeah, she just gestured her own interpretation of biblical 3:22:31.920 --> 3:22:36.680 gender roles, right sure, sure, quote women naturally want to 3:22:36.800 --> 3:22:40.959 do womanly things because God created us with those womanly 3:22:41.120 --> 3:22:43.600 desires in our heart unquote. 3:22:43.640 --> 3:22:46.879 So she's women and know like like females. I guess 3:22:46.920 --> 3:22:48.320 maybe maybe she was going for a. 3:22:49.959 --> 3:22:53.520 It's it's all circular reasoning like this all based on 3:22:53.920 --> 3:22:57.640 based on these like biblical gender roles, and later the 3:22:57.760 --> 3:23:00.720 essay goes on to self contradict itself on ideas of 3:23:00.879 --> 3:23:05.440 gender norms versus gender stereotypes, and it's all just very 3:23:05.520 --> 3:23:09.680 poorly written. James, did you read the whole essay. No, Okay, 3:23:09.879 --> 3:23:12.040 it's not it's not long. We are not going to 3:23:12.080 --> 3:23:12.680 read it all on air. 3:23:12.760 --> 3:23:13.440 I'll read it right now. 3:23:13.520 --> 3:23:15.720 I want you to read the whole thing and just 3:23:16.240 --> 3:23:19.360 just give me the chat your immediate thoughts. I dropped 3:23:19.360 --> 3:23:20.119 it in the zoom chat. 3:23:20.280 --> 3:23:22.200 You have to understand that I might experience like what 3:23:22.240 --> 3:23:26.160 it's called a trauma reaction. It's only two pages, so 3:23:26.360 --> 3:23:28.640 it's based on a review of an article, based on 3:23:28.680 --> 3:23:32.280 a review of an academic study. Yeah, on if gender 3:23:32.360 --> 3:23:39.920 conformity impacts bullying or popularity in middle school. Okay, Jesus Christ, 3:23:40.920 --> 3:23:44.440 that's what she said, but not yet she has excited 3:23:44.520 --> 3:23:50.120 him specifically. No, she never said Jesus yeah God mm 3:23:50.200 --> 3:23:52.840 hm ah, hell yeah. I love it when they get 3:23:52.879 --> 3:23:58.120 into like Hebrew. Oh yeah, yeah, yes, I'm just skinned 3:23:58.240 --> 3:24:04.640 penulta paragraph. What class is this in psychology? A psychology course? 3:24:05.120 --> 3:24:11.640 I would assign this for a psychology close. H wow. Yeah. 3:24:12.280 --> 3:24:15.000 Can I just read like the last part out loud? 3:24:15.480 --> 3:24:17.400 Okay, Sophie, you can. You can read the last part. 3:24:18.360 --> 3:24:18.600 Yeah. 3:24:20.240 --> 3:24:23.480 My prayer for the world, and specifically for American society 3:24:23.560 --> 3:24:26.080 and youth is that they would not believe the lies 3:24:26.160 --> 3:24:30.240 being spread from satan that make them believe they're better 3:24:30.360 --> 3:24:34.000 off as another gender than what God made them. I 3:24:34.120 --> 3:24:37.520 pray that they feel God's love and acceptance as who 3:24:37.920 --> 3:24:40.040 He originally created them to be. 3:24:41.080 --> 3:24:43.320 So if you really inhabited that role beautifully. 3:24:43.640 --> 3:24:48.279 Thank you, thank you previously and like the paragraph of four. 3:24:48.879 --> 3:24:52.360 Do you want me to do it? Yeah, I unfortunately 3:24:52.400 --> 3:24:59.480 feel like I could really embody this horrific person. Society 3:24:59.560 --> 3:25:02.320 pushing the lie that there are multiple genders and everyone 3:25:02.440 --> 3:25:05.480 should be whatever they want to be is demonic It 3:25:05.600 --> 3:25:09.400 severely harms American youth. I do not want kids to be. 3:25:09.480 --> 3:25:15.840 Teased bullying stuff yet, So, James, as a college college professor, 3:25:16.040 --> 3:25:17.480 what is your thoughts on this? 3:25:17.879 --> 3:25:20.240 It's just a bad response to the question, right that 3:25:20.320 --> 3:25:23.880 there is not a single citation the person has not 3:25:24.080 --> 3:25:27.120 done what they were instructed to do. They have just 3:25:27.240 --> 3:25:29.880 it's a classic example of that you have answered the 3:25:29.959 --> 3:25:32.200 question you wanted me to ask, not the question I 3:25:32.280 --> 3:25:36.320 have asked. Genre Sure, and in this case, like I'm 3:25:36.360 --> 3:25:39.400 presuming there was some kind of rubric for grading, Like 3:25:39.800 --> 3:25:41.880 it seems like a like a the sort of assignment 3:25:41.959 --> 3:25:43.880 that you would set once a week, right, I don't 3:25:43.879 --> 3:25:45.760 know if it's an online course or they're just using 3:25:45.760 --> 3:25:49.320 an online LMS, but the comment is clearly from an 3:25:49.360 --> 3:25:50.080 online LMS. 3:25:50.840 --> 3:25:55.040 Yeah, they do have the rubrick, and that TPUSA published. 3:25:55.760 --> 3:25:58.440 The rubrick was that you must write this six hundred 3:25:58.440 --> 3:26:01.840 and fifty word reaction paper demonstrating that you have read 3:26:01.959 --> 3:26:05.080 the assigned article and includes a thoughtful reaction to the 3:26:05.120 --> 3:26:07.440 material presented in the article. Please remember that your reaction 3:26:07.560 --> 3:26:10.120 paper should not be a summary, but rather a thoughtful 3:26:10.160 --> 3:26:13.640 discussion of some aspect of the article. Possible approaches to 3:26:13.760 --> 3:26:16.400 reaction papers include a discussion of why you feel the 3:26:16.480 --> 3:26:19.360 topic is important and worthy of study or not, or 3:26:19.800 --> 3:26:23.400 an application of the study or results to your own experiences. 3:26:24.040 --> 3:26:28.360 That's a broader prompt than I had otherwise imagined. Yeah. 3:26:29.000 --> 3:26:32.240 Other section is Reaction papers are graded on a twenty 3:26:32.360 --> 3:26:34.960 five point scale and are evaluated based on the following 3:26:35.280 --> 3:26:37.640 Does the paper show a clear tie to the assigned 3:26:37.720 --> 3:26:41.320 article ten points, Does paper present a thoughtful reaction or 3:26:41.360 --> 3:26:43.600 response to the article rather than a summary ten points? 3:26:43.720 --> 3:26:46.440 And is the paper clearly written five points. The best 3:26:46.440 --> 3:26:49.120 reaction papers illustrate the students have read the assigned materials 3:26:49.240 --> 3:26:52.840 and engaged in critical thinking about some aspect of the article. 3:26:53.520 --> 3:26:56.040 Yeah, I mean the way you would do that is 3:26:56.120 --> 3:26:58.680 to reference the article more than in the first line 3:26:58.720 --> 3:27:01.720 of your paper and then never again, right sure, which 3:27:01.800 --> 3:27:04.160 is what this person has done here. Look, at no 3:27:04.280 --> 3:27:06.800 point do they quote from the article, mention anything specifically 3:27:06.800 --> 3:27:09.680 the article says other than that it was very thought provoking. 3:27:09.879 --> 3:27:12.400 And then like they've seen the word gender and just 3:27:12.520 --> 3:27:15.040 gone off like a dog after a squirrel, right, like, yes, 3:27:15.520 --> 3:27:18.400 and then completely gone off on one about god. 3:27:19.040 --> 3:27:21.560 Yeah, that's a pretty broad prompt. 3:27:22.160 --> 3:27:24.760 It's broader than I would generally write a prompt, but 3:27:25.400 --> 3:27:28.240 that's okay with different approaches. They haven't specifically said in 3:27:28.320 --> 3:27:31.080 the prompt that they want people to cite their sources, 3:27:31.240 --> 3:27:34.640 which I normally do. But yeah, they haven't really shown 3:27:34.680 --> 3:27:36.439 any engagement with the article. 3:27:36.200 --> 3:27:38.320 Right Like, this isn't a fresh ofment, this isn't a 3:27:38.400 --> 3:27:41.680 software this is this is a junior well well into 3:27:41.760 --> 3:27:46.400 this semester. The response from the instructor was, quote, please note, 3:27:46.400 --> 3:27:48.840 I'm not deducting points because you have certain beliefs, but 3:27:48.920 --> 3:27:51.560 instead I'm deducting points where you're posting a reaction paper 3:27:51.600 --> 3:27:54.840 that does not answer the questions for the assignment, contradict itself, 3:27:54.920 --> 3:27:58.640 heavily uses personal ideology over empirical evidence in a scientific class, 3:27:59.000 --> 3:28:01.960 and is at times offensive. While you are entitled to 3:28:02.040 --> 3:28:05.320 your own personal beliefs, there is an appropriate time or 3:28:05.360 --> 3:28:07.720 place to implement them in your reflections. I encourage all 3:28:07.760 --> 3:28:10.440 students to question or challenge the course material with other 3:28:10.640 --> 3:28:16.640 empirical findings or testable hypotheses, but using your own personal 3:28:16.680 --> 3:28:19.880 beliefs to argue against the findings of not only this article, 3:28:20.120 --> 3:28:23.320 but the findings of countless articles across the ecology, biology, sociology, 3:28:23.360 --> 3:28:27.160 et cetera. Is not best practice unquote yeah so. 3:28:27.640 --> 3:28:29.680 Again this is a science class. I guess right late, 3:28:29.840 --> 3:28:33.560 Like this is not a scientific response. It is yeah, no, 3:28:33.920 --> 3:28:34.920 entirely vibespased. 3:28:35.440 --> 3:28:38.879 Before becoming a national news story, this grade was reviewed 3:28:38.959 --> 3:28:42.840 and approved by another instructor. This isn't just one instructor 3:28:42.879 --> 3:28:46.039 who happens to be trans This isn't just their personal grade. 3:28:46.080 --> 3:28:51.600 This was reviewed by another instructor. But on Thanksgiving TPUSA 3:28:52.080 --> 3:28:55.520 used this story to start a media blitz targeting this 3:28:55.640 --> 3:28:59.920 quote unquote mentally ill professor, this graduate student instructor, which 3:29:00.080 --> 3:29:03.320 has resulted in her being placed on leave as the 3:29:03.440 --> 3:29:09.800 university reviews this incident concerning illegal discrimination based on religious beliefs. 3:29:10.480 --> 3:29:12.880 That's not what that is, right, Like, like, I have 3:29:13.040 --> 3:29:17.000 watched the short form video about discrimination many times of 3:29:17.200 --> 3:29:20.840 my years instructing students, and like, this person wasn't discriminated 3:29:20.879 --> 3:29:23.120 against because of their beliefs. They were discriminated. They weren't 3:29:23.120 --> 3:29:27.120 discriminated against. They were graded for their response which was poor, for. 3:29:27.200 --> 3:29:32.400 Failing to follow the rules of these and again not 3:29:32.680 --> 3:29:35.199 not even as like a freshman who needs more clear 3:29:35.520 --> 3:29:40.240 like you know, first year uniche, Like, no, yeah, this 3:29:40.360 --> 3:29:42.560 is this is this is a psychology major in her 3:29:42.720 --> 3:29:43.400 junior year. 3:29:43.720 --> 3:29:45.760 Yeah, writing this response as a part. 3:29:45.640 --> 3:29:48.200 Of it, as a part of a pscient as a 3:29:48.200 --> 3:29:51.400 scientific psychology course where it's not about science at all. 3:29:51.480 --> 3:29:54.879 You're just talking about your own impression of what God 3:29:55.080 --> 3:29:58.480 wants out of gender roles and citing not not even sighting, 3:29:58.560 --> 3:30:01.400 but like pointing towards the whole spirit and the heavenly Father. 3:30:02.120 --> 3:30:05.800 Yeah, and some Hebrew shit that you've translated. I know 3:30:06.720 --> 3:30:10.800 that most instructors who teach at universities now are very 3:30:11.000 --> 3:30:15.760 concerned about exactly this, right, about a student writing a 3:30:15.800 --> 3:30:19.320 paper which is just bad and then them going to 3:30:19.920 --> 3:30:23.400 the pretty much tp USA specific right and being like, yes, 3:30:23.480 --> 3:30:25.800 it came against me because they hate Jesus, and I 3:30:25.840 --> 3:30:28.760 can imagine that that is worse for trans and gender 3:30:28.800 --> 3:30:34.000 not conforming and otherwise absolutely instructors from conversations right like. 3:30:34.640 --> 3:30:39.680 No, absolutely, and like TPUSA first gained popularity for its 3:30:39.800 --> 3:30:43.200 like professor watch lists where people could report their like 3:30:43.360 --> 3:30:46.879 woke liberal professors, and this is this is the core 3:30:46.959 --> 3:30:50.840 part of the TPUSA model, is attacking academics and people 3:30:50.879 --> 3:30:54.680 who work in university in this instants like cause speculation 3:30:54.800 --> 3:30:58.640 of like how much of this essay was genuine versus 3:30:58.800 --> 3:31:02.840 was this intention only bad essay to provoke this response, 3:31:02.959 --> 3:31:06.760 which we can't we can't wonder. But the student has 3:31:06.840 --> 3:31:09.520 like risen to the ranks of like a minor conservative 3:31:09.520 --> 3:31:13.199 celebrity in these in these past two weeks. Yeah, because 3:31:13.240 --> 3:31:17.520 of this incident and is doing like TPUSA, like speaking, 3:31:17.840 --> 3:31:22.360 speaking appearances, news appearances. There's been dozens of articles across 3:31:22.440 --> 3:31:25.360 right wing outlets on this. It's it's turned into a 3:31:25.520 --> 3:31:26.480 legitimate story for them. 3:31:26.959 --> 3:31:30.240 Yeah, I do want to say, well, like it appears Garrison, 3:31:30.280 --> 3:31:32.400 I discussed this before, but it appears that this person 3:31:32.520 --> 3:31:36.280 is a grad student and not like a ten year 3:31:36.440 --> 3:31:40.600 professor adjunct, yes, certainly not tenured, right, Sure, therefore they 3:31:40.640 --> 3:31:45.320 are much more vulnerable and they have many fewer protections 3:31:45.560 --> 3:31:48.160 than a tenured professor would have. I don't know if 3:31:48.160 --> 3:31:50.760 they unionize. It depends on where they're teaching, right, But. 3:31:51.000 --> 3:31:54.160 Like University of Oklahoma, that is questionable. 3:31:54.720 --> 3:31:59.520 Yeah, I mean possibilities points to know, But like, this 3:31:59.720 --> 3:32:02.640 is a series is fucking problem for anybody teaching in 3:32:02.720 --> 3:32:06.200 these fields, right, especially graduate students. Like I say especially, 3:32:06.600 --> 3:32:09.680 I mean imagine you're a graduate student on a student visa, right, Like, 3:32:10.280 --> 3:32:15.480 how do you approach teaching this when you know that 3:32:15.800 --> 3:32:18.080 you could end up on the TPUSA Instagram. 3:32:18.480 --> 3:32:20.160 It's trying to chill speech, right, This is this is 3:32:20.200 --> 3:32:22.040 part of what they're doing. They're turning this into a 3:32:22.160 --> 3:32:25.560 free speech crusade for religious discrimination. But what this is 3:32:25.560 --> 3:32:29.560 actually doing is chilling speech at universities by making it 3:32:29.640 --> 3:32:32.039 so you can't teach certain topics, especially if you happen 3:32:32.120 --> 3:32:35.000 to be trans to yourself. Otherwise TEPA USA in the 3:32:35.040 --> 3:32:36.879 right wing media system is going to turn your life 3:32:36.879 --> 3:32:37.800 into a living nightmare. 3:32:38.680 --> 3:32:41.800 Yeah. I've repeatedly seen a First Amendment cited and ref 3:32:41.920 --> 3:32:44.480 to this This has not got anything to do with 3:32:44.600 --> 3:32:47.240 the First Amendment. Like, the First Amendment doesn't give you 3:32:47.320 --> 3:32:48.760 the right to get a good grade for saying what 3:32:48.840 --> 3:32:51.760 the fuck you want? That's that's not in the First Amendment. 3:32:52.320 --> 3:32:55.959 But yeah, like Garrison said, it is chilling speech. Good news. 3:32:56.320 --> 3:33:00.400 Oklahoma University Workers United is a union sick okay, cool, 3:33:00.440 --> 3:33:04.760 and it includes grad student instructors unclear okay, hit us 3:33:04.840 --> 3:33:07.680 up o uwu and let. 3:33:07.720 --> 3:33:10.440 Us know before we close, I do want to mention 3:33:11.400 --> 3:33:13.880 another story that's happened this week, which is gonna prompt 3:33:13.959 --> 3:33:18.440 of a future episode probably next week. The online gambling 3:33:18.480 --> 3:33:23.040 platform cal She. I've never said it before. I'm saying 3:33:23.120 --> 3:33:28.240 Calsh has that a serial partnered with c Cashi. I 3:33:28.280 --> 3:33:29.960 you don't even know what you're talking about anymore. But 3:33:30.280 --> 3:33:33.400 the online gambling platform cal she is partnered with CNN 3:33:33.600 --> 3:33:38.280 and CNBC this past week to allow the news companies 3:33:38.320 --> 3:33:42.320 to use qute unquote real time prediction data for TV 3:33:42.520 --> 3:33:47.680 news segments and online content. This is not entirely surprising 3:33:47.920 --> 3:33:51.200 if people have been watching CNN like I have, like 3:33:51.320 --> 3:33:55.680 a complete maniac, because specifically this this past November and 3:33:55.959 --> 3:33:59.360 like this whole election season, news pundits on CNN have 3:33:59.480 --> 3:34:02.280 been using betting odds in place of polling data to 3:34:02.400 --> 3:34:06.000 weigh the likelihood of candidate's winning elections. This has become 3:34:06.000 --> 3:34:09.120 an increasingly common practice, specifically at CNN, and now it 3:34:09.160 --> 3:34:13.320 appears it's spreading to other news platforms like CNBC. How 3:34:13.680 --> 3:34:18.760 She announcement of the scene and partnership reads quote. CNN 3:34:18.959 --> 3:34:23.199 chief data analyst Harry Enton is an expert in translating 3:34:23.280 --> 3:34:26.720 what data and polling are saying on any given issue, 3:34:27.240 --> 3:34:29.920 and through this integration, he can tap into real time 3:34:30.080 --> 3:34:34.000 prediction markets data to better inform and fact check his 3:34:34.360 --> 3:34:40.240 reporting unquote what back checking his reporting with gambling data? 3:34:40.440 --> 3:34:44.360 Gambling odds from people who are betting on like if 3:34:44.440 --> 3:34:46.520 people are going to starve in Gaza, right, this is 3:34:46.879 --> 3:34:49.960 this is the sort of stuff that they bet on on. Caliche, 3:34:50.160 --> 3:34:54.560 not just who wins elections. Absurd, Jesus. 3:34:55.000 --> 3:34:57.320 I like that you've pronounced the day of this company 3:34:57.720 --> 3:34:58.920 several different see. 3:34:58.959 --> 3:34:59.880 I used to call it heal. 3:35:00.240 --> 3:35:00.920 This is the problem. 3:35:01.720 --> 3:35:03.680 I think it's I think it's Calshi. I think I 3:35:03.720 --> 3:35:04.720 think Calshi is correct. 3:35:05.680 --> 3:35:09.360 There's one possible benefit to this. Will it stop Nate 3:35:09.440 --> 3:35:12.040 Silva being so fucking annoying. No, it'll cause them to 3:35:12.120 --> 3:35:13.360 be more annoying games. 3:35:13.560 --> 3:35:16.440 How can you not see that this is this is 3:35:16.560 --> 3:35:20.240 a part of the nayverification of everything good and this 3:35:20.640 --> 3:35:22.280 this is what I want to talk about in the 3:35:22.360 --> 3:35:24.680 full piece. But but no, there was there was a 3:35:24.760 --> 3:35:27.760 Sena news segment in October twenty twenty five where this 3:35:28.160 --> 3:35:31.800 data analyst talked about how the odds of Democrats winning 3:35:31.840 --> 3:35:36.480 the midterms are going down via citing the Calshi odds, 3:35:36.600 --> 3:35:39.160 and then he did like three minutes of analysis using 3:35:39.280 --> 3:35:42.440 selective midterm voting data from twenty seventeen to twenty eighteen 3:35:42.680 --> 3:35:45.320 to support the movement in the gambling odds. 3:35:45.400 --> 3:35:47.160 Like that was the core piece of data. He was 3:35:47.160 --> 3:35:51.960 trying to explain, what the fuck? How big is this marketplace? 3:35:52.120 --> 3:35:52.560 Pretty big? 3:35:52.800 --> 3:35:54.880 Pretty big? Okay, so I couldn't just come in with 3:35:55.000 --> 3:35:57.480 like five hundred bucks and tip it. 3:35:57.640 --> 3:35:59.400 No, no, no, I mean it depends on what you're 3:35:59.400 --> 3:36:01.959 doing for like these sorts of big these like big races. 3:36:02.040 --> 3:36:02.080 No. 3:36:02.400 --> 3:36:04.480 But part of the real problem is is if you're 3:36:04.680 --> 3:36:07.680 just tuning in to CNN and reading the graphics, it's 3:36:07.760 --> 3:36:10.360 really hard to tell that this that these are gambling odds. Yeah, 3:36:10.480 --> 3:36:13.520 you're just seeing big percentages and they're only gonna mention 3:36:13.760 --> 3:36:16.560 that it's from quote unquote betting markets or prediction markets 3:36:16.600 --> 3:36:18.880 like once at the beginning of the segment. After that 3:36:19.200 --> 3:36:22.160 they treat the numbers like actual polling data. So it's 3:36:22.640 --> 3:36:27.279 really really manipulative. And unless you're like super paying attention 3:36:27.320 --> 3:36:30.000 to this whole segment, it'd be very easy to interpret 3:36:30.080 --> 3:36:35.080 these gambling numbers as genuine as genuine poll information. Wow, 3:36:36.000 --> 3:36:41.080 it's incredibly dangerous to democracy and uh overall kind of 3:36:41.120 --> 3:36:43.160 bad and fucked up, and it's gonna be spreading. 3:36:43.360 --> 3:36:43.480 Uh. 3:36:44.120 --> 3:36:47.640 The Calshi competitor poly Market partnered with X Everything app 3:36:47.840 --> 3:36:50.760 and Yahoo Financed earlier this year to integrate their quote 3:36:50.840 --> 3:36:55.920 unquote prediction data into content on x and Yahoo Finance. 3:36:56.840 --> 3:36:58.600 It's only going to become more and more common. 3:36:58.959 --> 3:37:01.879 Well, you're gonna you of a long form episode on. 3:37:01.920 --> 3:37:04.560 This, I will Yeah, this sucks. I'm just looking at 3:37:04.600 --> 3:37:05.360 this website now. 3:37:05.400 --> 3:37:08.800 It sucks. I don't like this at all. 3:37:11.560 --> 3:37:13.520 If you would like to email us, you can do 3:37:13.680 --> 3:37:17.119 so by reaching out to cool Zone tips at proton 3:37:17.720 --> 3:37:18.160 dot me. 3:37:18.959 --> 3:37:22.360 That does for us that it could happen here. We 3:37:22.520 --> 3:37:25.199 reported the news, and now you can bet on the news. 3:37:26.600 --> 3:37:27.520 We reported the news. 3:37:31.840 --> 3:37:35.000 Hey, We'll be back Monday, with more episodes every week 3:37:35.080 --> 3:37:36.959 from now until the heat death of the Universe. 3:37:37.760 --> 3:37:40.199 It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 3:37:40.440 --> 3:37:43.440 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:37:43.560 --> 3:37:47.080 Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 3:37:47.200 --> 3:37:50.920 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts can now 3:37:51.000 --> 3:37:53.200 find sources for it Could Happen Here, listed directly in 3:37:53.280 --> 3:37:55.440 episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.