1
00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:03,120
Speaker 1: As media.

2
00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:05,720
Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

3
00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:09,440
Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

4
00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,720
Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

5
00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,520
Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

6
00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,040
Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

7
00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,000
Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

8
00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:22,759
Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

9
00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:24,800
Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

10
00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,160
Speaker 3: I conducted interviews for this series in Spanish and French.

11
00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,879
Speaker 3: Then I transcribed them and translated them, and we had

12
00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,080
Speaker 3: voice actors read them. So when you're listening to this,

13
00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:38,800
Speaker 3: please remember that everything you're hearing in English was recorded

14
00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,920
Speaker 3: another language, and it's through the lens of my translation

15
00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,760
Speaker 3: that you're hearing these people's words. As we always do,

16
00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,559
Speaker 3: we have included the sources for this podcast in the

17
00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,320
Speaker 3: show notes. I've also included a link to Primroses Legal

18
00:00:50,320 --> 00:01:19,600
Speaker 3: aid fundraiser people would like to help out. Like most

19
00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,720
Speaker 3: of you, I wasn't having a great day on the

20
00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,400
Speaker 3: twentieth of January of twenty twenty five. I wasn't about

21
00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,640
Speaker 3: to watch the inauguration, so I went for a run

22
00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,680
Speaker 3: in the mountains Instead, I spent the next few weeks

23
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:32,840
Speaker 3: trying to focus on the things we could do, the

24
00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,920
Speaker 3: things we had to do to get through four years

25
00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,160
Speaker 3: of fascism. Just a few miles away from my house,

26
00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,360
Speaker 3: I set out for my run, and unbeknown to me,

27
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,320
Speaker 3: my friend Primrose was staring down from the top of

28
00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,160
Speaker 3: a thirty foot steel monument to hate Donald Trump had

29
00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,600
Speaker 3: built the last time he was president. To be ir accurate,

30
00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,200
Speaker 3: it was one that he had modified. There have been

31
00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,560
Speaker 3: versions of the border wall in San Diego for decades.

32
00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,640
Speaker 4: They said, no, yes, option, we need to take you.

33
00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,200
Speaker 4: But you know, for me, I had to take it.

34
00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:03,360
Speaker 5: It's because.

35
00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,960
Speaker 4: I was scared to stay in Mexico. So they took

36
00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,840
Speaker 4: us with under the bridge, I think the sewage. We

37
00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:16,919
Speaker 4: were walking with our stomach like under the bridge to

38
00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:22,480
Speaker 4: get to USA and Mexican borders. So they put ladder

39
00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:27,040
Speaker 4: for us to your us. Those people, when they saw

40
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:32,079
Speaker 4: American immigration came, they just removed the ladder and me,

41
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,919
Speaker 4: I was on top, so I had yeah, I was stuck.

42
00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,440
Speaker 4: Then I had no choice, and the kim Balish was

43
00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,200
Speaker 4: crying like calm, let's go, let's go.

44
00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,360
Speaker 3: At that time, I knew nothing about it. But her

45
00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,959
Speaker 3: daughter Kim had already jumped. As a Biden presidency drew

46
00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,360
Speaker 3: to a close. But before Trump began signing executive orders

47
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,240
Speaker 3: with pens, he tossed into the crowd. She'd made it

48
00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,720
Speaker 3: to the US. Her mum was in the US as

49
00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,919
Speaker 3: well the walls inside the border, but the people who

50
00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:04,240
Speaker 3: had helped it get up to the top of the

51
00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,400
Speaker 3: war had fled when border patrol arrived, taking their ladder

52
00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,919
Speaker 3: with them. So Primrose was left atop the wall, the

53
00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,399
Speaker 3: literal and metaphorical final hurdle in her long and dangerous

54
00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:20,639
Speaker 3: journey that had begun in Zimbabwe, who went through South Africa, Brazil, Colombia, Panama,

55
00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:30,679
Speaker 3: Costa Rica, Negaragua, Honduras, Guatemala and Mexico. But before we

56
00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,040
Speaker 3: come down from the border wall, I want to take

57
00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:40,720
Speaker 3: you back to the Missoak river bank of Maraganti. Last September, Paraya. Daddy,

58
00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,400
Speaker 3: my fixer and I had woken up a no godly hour,

59
00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,840
Speaker 3: and so had the jungle birds. Along with half the

60
00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,560
Speaker 3: population of the village. We walked down to the river bank,

61
00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:55,120
Speaker 3: carrying the engines and fuel tanks. At Piraguas. A few

62
00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,200
Speaker 3: minutes later, a chorus of two stroke engines and smoke

63
00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,800
Speaker 3: fired up. As the boats set off towards Bajo Jaquito.

64
00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,760
Speaker 3: I stood in the bow, still trying to master the

65
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,280
Speaker 3: use of the pole. As we passed through the faster moving,

66
00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,920
Speaker 3: shallower water. Daddy sat in the middle and laughed at me.

67
00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,320
Speaker 3: Despite my best efforts, we arrived in one piece in

68
00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:19,960
Speaker 3: Bajo Chiquito, and I launched myself from the bow into

69
00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,000
Speaker 3: knee deep water on the rocky beach. In front of

70
00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,760
Speaker 3: us stood hundreds of people patiently waiting for the piragueros

71
00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,560
Speaker 3: to take them north and out of the jungle. Stretched

72
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:32,640
Speaker 3: like a snake all the way through town. The line

73
00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,119
Speaker 3: of migrants must have totaled one thousand people. I walked

74
00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,760
Speaker 3: backwards away from the boats, the only foreigner not leaving

75
00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:44,200
Speaker 3: look for people i'd met the day before. About halfway

76
00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,440
Speaker 3: down the line stood Primrose and Kim, and I stopped

77
00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,320
Speaker 3: while we chatted for a bit about what the boat

78
00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,760
Speaker 3: ride was like, what they could expect next.

79
00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm going there. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to Nadist.

80
00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,880
Speaker 6: Do you have family, yeah, no, you just make your

81
00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:00,160
Speaker 6: American life.

82
00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:00,880
Speaker 3: It's okay.

83
00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,640
Speaker 4: I think I'm just trying. No, it's only me and

84
00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:04,279
Speaker 4: my daughter.

85
00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,479
Speaker 3: Despite this, they had found community on the journey. I

86
00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,000
Speaker 3: can't describe how scary it must be for two women

87
00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,040
Speaker 3: to set out on this journey alone. It takes an

88
00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,240
Speaker 3: awful lot to embark on that journey and to be

89
00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,000
Speaker 3: able to trust people when everyone is a potential threat.

90
00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,200
Speaker 3: But if there's one thing I learned in a jungle,

91
00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,360
Speaker 3: it's in the hardest times and the hardest places, the

92
00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:31,360
Speaker 3: only way forward is together. Primos reminded me of this,

93
00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,800
Speaker 3: telling me how complete strangers had helped her.

94
00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,520
Speaker 4: Very nice, especially the Spanish people.

95
00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:39,520
Speaker 5: They are very nice.

96
00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,279
Speaker 4: I don't want to life was if you need help,

97
00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,000
Speaker 4: you forgot them for your Look the other ones they

98
00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,560
Speaker 4: might run away by the other ones.

99
00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,400
Speaker 5: They just for your They.

100
00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:54,480
Speaker 4: Even give us tablets on the road, give us energy drinks,

101
00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:58,800
Speaker 4: give my daughter sweets for enage. They push us like,

102
00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,839
Speaker 4: let's go, guys, let's go, let's go. You make it,

103
00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,159
Speaker 4: and we really make it.

104
00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's really nice to hear. I asked Primrose

105
00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,320
Speaker 3: a question I asked everyone there. What did she hope

106
00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,200
Speaker 3: for when she got to America? What was her American dream?

107
00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,240
Speaker 3: What do you hope for her in America? What do

108
00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:18,239
Speaker 3: you want to do in America.

109
00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:24,160
Speaker 4: I want to go to school, then she can I

110
00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,640
Speaker 4: see something in life. I don't wish my daughter to

111
00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:27,720
Speaker 4: go big to sam Or.

112
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,160
Speaker 3: No, yeah, not at all. No, it's very hard.

113
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:42,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really really Towrogate Gradi.

114
00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,599
Speaker 3: I saw them a few days later, Las Blancas Afred

115
00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,880
Speaker 3: sat with a group of little Venezuelan children playing a

116
00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,920
Speaker 3: game where we throw bottletops into a broken half cinder block.

117
00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:00,359
Speaker 3: We talked about the struggle they face to pay for

118
00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,479
Speaker 3: the bus north, and we didn't record anything that day,

119
00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,280
Speaker 3: but as I was leaving for the evening, Kim asked

120
00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,000
Speaker 3: me if I could buy her a drink. I generally

121
00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,320
Speaker 3: try not to splash my money around because I don't

122
00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,400
Speaker 3: have enough money to help everyone, and I still have

123
00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,480
Speaker 3: some scars from ridiculous concept of objectivity that would lead

124
00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,320
Speaker 3: some editors not to commission a story from me if

125
00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,520
Speaker 3: I gave the subject a gift. But this time I

126
00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:24,640
Speaker 3: felt like buying her a drink, and I let her

127
00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:26,960
Speaker 3: select the biggest bottle of cold soda she could find

128
00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,120
Speaker 3: in the little store in the camp there. I told

129
00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:31,800
Speaker 3: her and her mum to stay in touch and wrote

130
00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:33,960
Speaker 3: my number on a piece of my notebook, tore it

131
00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,840
Speaker 3: out and gave it to them. Months later, Kim was

132
00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,880
Speaker 3: holding the same scrap of paper, looking up her mum

133
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,920
Speaker 3: stuck on the border wall. A whole lot had changed

134
00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,280
Speaker 3: since I last saw them. A few days after my

135
00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,800
Speaker 3: scripted podcast and the Daddy and Gap was released, the

136
00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,960
Speaker 3: United States elected Donald Trump as his forty seventh president.

137
00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,280
Speaker 3: It was a ship month all round that My phone,

138
00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,840
Speaker 3: as it often does, lit up with mesthews from my

139
00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,840
Speaker 3: daddy and friends asking me what this meant and if

140
00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,560
Speaker 3: Trump was going to close the border. I didn't really

141
00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:06,960
Speaker 3: know how to answer those questions, because if it's one

142
00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,320
Speaker 3: thing we know about Trumps, he changed his mind every

143
00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,400
Speaker 3: few weeks. As we got closer and closer to the

144
00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,880
Speaker 3: day he was inaugurated, they got more and more concerned.

145
00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:18,880
Speaker 3: Most of them hadn't made it out of southern Mexico.

146
00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,120
Speaker 3: Many of them had told me that things there were

147
00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,800
Speaker 3: even worse. In the jungle. They'd all been robbed, some

148
00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,000
Speaker 3: of them had been sexually assaulted, some of them kidnapped,

149
00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,720
Speaker 3: and some of them killed. I'd heard about all of

150
00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,480
Speaker 3: these things every day from September last year to January

151
00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,120
Speaker 3: this year. In the middle of a run or when

152
00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,520
Speaker 3: I was having dinner meeting a friend for a coffee,

153
00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,679
Speaker 3: my phone would ring and I'd be confronted with terrible injustice,

154
00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,839
Speaker 3: and I'd be totally powerless to set it right. As

155
00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,600
Speaker 3: time went on, I heard from fewer and fewer of them.

156
00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,400
Speaker 3: I assume their phones were stolen, but there are, of

157
00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,800
Speaker 3: course more upsetting explanations as to why they might have

158
00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:01,200
Speaker 3: stopped contacting me. Noemi, little girl who wanted to visit

159
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,520
Speaker 3: Minnie Mouse video called me once from Tappajula with a

160
00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:06,800
Speaker 3: little tiny toy bear that I'd given her and that

161
00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,480
Speaker 3: she kept with her on the whole journey. It may

162
00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,040
Speaker 3: be happy to see them and a silly little bear

163
00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,520
Speaker 3: carved from soapstone that had traveled the lengths of South

164
00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,839
Speaker 3: America with them. Every few weeks after I'd left, I'd

165
00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,199
Speaker 3: get photos of the bear in a different country. As

166
00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,720
Speaker 3: a little Osito worked its way closer to Disneyland, some

167
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,160
Speaker 3: people who worked at Disneyland had reached out to offer

168
00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,640
Speaker 3: suggestions about tickets. Other people had reached out offering to pay.

169
00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,480
Speaker 3: I was, despite the odds, hoping that one day I

170
00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,760
Speaker 3: could help one little girl see her American dream come true.

171
00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:40,680
Speaker 3: When we spoke. She was with her mum and they

172
00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,960
Speaker 3: were trying to log onto CBP one hoping for an appointment,

173
00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,080
Speaker 3: but it wouldn't work on their old Android phones. I

174
00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,839
Speaker 3: tried to find shelters with reliable internet that would take

175
00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,840
Speaker 3: them in, and called friends and endious almost every week,

176
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:58,560
Speaker 3: passing along questions or looking for resources. I spent hours calling,

177
00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,440
Speaker 3: finding it hard to except that the capacity for mutual

178
00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,920
Speaker 3: aid was so overwhelmed that nobody had a safe space

179
00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,839
Speaker 3: for little girl and her mom. I'm wondering if it

180
00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,920
Speaker 3: still felt like a pepper Pig adventure or if even

181
00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:15,600
Speaker 3: little indominitable Miami was scared now. Even from where I

182
00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,320
Speaker 3: was was fast internet and a weather friends across the

183
00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,320
Speaker 3: Western Hemisphere, I couldn't find the help people needed, and

184
00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,280
Speaker 3: it made me increasingly angry and anxious the more I tried.

185
00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,800
Speaker 3: It sucked, but there was still a chance, however slim,

186
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,360
Speaker 3: that one day I might get to see Miami meet

187
00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,280
Speaker 3: Minnie Mouse. So I kept trying, and so did her mom.

188
00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,520
Speaker 3: Then one day I got no response from her mum's

189
00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,480
Speaker 3: WhatsApp when I messaged her. Nobody picked up the phone

190
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,680
Speaker 3: when I tried to ring. I still haven't had a response,

191
00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,600
Speaker 3: but periodically, I'll keep trying. Even the last messages and

192
00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,920
Speaker 3: photos are gone now, after my wordsapp updated, Like so

193
00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:57,920
Speaker 3: many of the people who I shared my food with,

194
00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,040
Speaker 3: whose little children held my hand in darkness of the jungle,

195
00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,280
Speaker 3: who I desperately wished and wish I could do more for,

196
00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:05,600
Speaker 3: they're gone.

197
00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:05,840
Speaker 5: Now.

198
00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,720
Speaker 3: That's what strong borders means. It means brave little girls

199
00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,800
Speaker 3: disappearing so a politician who knows nothing of their struggles

200
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,560
Speaker 3: can point to a statistic. I've listened to the interview

201
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,240
Speaker 3: I conducted with them so many times since last September.

202
00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,440
Speaker 3: I still can't really work out anyone with a heart

203
00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,800
Speaker 3: could hear that and think they wanted to live in

204
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,199
Speaker 3: a world where that little girl wasn't safe. But that's

205
00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,040
Speaker 3: what people voted for. I guess I don't think they did. Actually,

206
00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,800
Speaker 3: I can't think they did. I think people liked them,

207
00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,920
Speaker 3: and that's what they voted for. But nonetheless, here we

208
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:41,920
Speaker 3: are now, sitting in a country that didn't want to

209
00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,080
Speaker 3: help the little girl who flexed he around muscles to

210
00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,720
Speaker 3: show me how strong she was after climbing the mountain

211
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,199
Speaker 3: into the most dangerous land migration route in the Americas,

212
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:55,640
Speaker 3: and told me, it was for her all an adventure.

213
00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:57,800
Speaker 3: Her mother gave a different account.

214
00:11:58,720 --> 00:11:59,280
Speaker 7: There are.

215
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:04,559
Speaker 1: I didn't want to cry because I didn't want her

216
00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,160
Speaker 1: to see me cry. But sometimes I would explode because

217
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,480
Speaker 1: it's hard for your child to ask you for water,

218
00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,439
Speaker 1: to ask you for food, and you don't have any

219
00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,120
Speaker 1: to be in a place where you walk. You walk

220
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,439
Speaker 1: from five in the morning, it's five in the afternoon.

221
00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:19,760
Speaker 1: You're walking, you don't know what to do, going through

222
00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:21,920
Speaker 1: more than one hundred rivers and asking God not to

223
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,000
Speaker 1: rain and not wanting it to get worse. It rained

224
00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,240
Speaker 1: and the girl got a fever. She got a fever.

225
00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,160
Speaker 1: But well, God is good that we pray a lot.

226
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,160
Speaker 1: I say that we don't know God so much in

227
00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,000
Speaker 1: the church from the process and the process that we

228
00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,560
Speaker 1: are in, and we don't know we can be so

229
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,200
Speaker 1: strong until we go through that storm and we see

230
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,839
Speaker 1: that He protect us. He knows that He was always

231
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:49,520
Speaker 1: there watching over us, taking care of us at all times.

232
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,080
Speaker 3: I don't want to dwell on this too long because

233
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,360
Speaker 3: talking in public about grief is something I'm bad at.

234
00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,320
Speaker 3: One of my friends died fighting in Ukraine this year.

235
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,600
Speaker 3: A colleague died just weeks before we'd planned a trip together.

236
00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:18,000
Speaker 3: Some of my Burmese friends died fighting. But even as

237
00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,480
Speaker 3: someone who talks to soldiers for a living, nothing really

238
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,600
Speaker 3: compares to the death toll inflicted by the US border regime.

239
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,240
Speaker 3: The little village in England where I grew up, there

240
00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,680
Speaker 3: are memorials in every town a village for the young

241
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,760
Speaker 3: people who died fighting in the World Wars. If we

242
00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,600
Speaker 3: built those at the border, they'd soon be towering far

243
00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:37,680
Speaker 3: above the wall that does so much of the killing.

244
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,640
Speaker 3: Things are as bad now as they have ever been.

245
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,120
Speaker 3: The wall constructed in the San Diego sector that Trump

246
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:48,680
Speaker 3: administration has proposed will wave environmental and cultural protections and

247
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,000
Speaker 3: push migrants further into the desert. In the desert, further

248
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,079
Speaker 3: from help, further from water, more of them will die.

249
00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,680
Speaker 3: Speak to migrants all the time, the ones who stayed

250
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,560
Speaker 3: in Mexico, even the ones who took the Venezuelan governments

251
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,360
Speaker 3: offerers of flights home. As much as they ask about America,

252
00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,360
Speaker 3: they also ask about each other. Do I know what

253
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,960
Speaker 3: happened to the Angolans who shared their food too generously?

254
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,720
Speaker 3: They say, no, I haven't heard from them. What about

255
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,240
Speaker 3: the Venezuelan trans girl who braided their children's hair. Well,

256
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,600
Speaker 3: she's still braiding hair, but she hasn't made it to

257
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,160
Speaker 3: the US. Gradually she did make it, and then she

258
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,000
Speaker 3: was immediately deported back to southern Mexico. How about Rose,

259
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,640
Speaker 3: they say, the Boliviana who came all on her own

260
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,240
Speaker 3: and founder found me along the trail, only to be

261
00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,000
Speaker 3: separated from them again. I haven't heard from her in

262
00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,840
Speaker 3: a year. Universally, they're happy to hear about Kim and Primrose.

263
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,800
Speaker 3: They're glad to hear that someone made it, that somebody

264
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,960
Speaker 3: can make it. Because of the more than one hundred

265
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,480
Speaker 3: pages I tore out of my notebook with my phone number,

266
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,760
Speaker 3: they are two of the three people who let me

267
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,960
Speaker 3: know they made it here. So let's hear from Primrose

268
00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,160
Speaker 3: about what it looks like to make it here, how

269
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,920
Speaker 3: it feels to have the best outcome of anyone I met.

270
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,040
Speaker 3: Let's pick up at Last blancas they now shattered migrant

271
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,880
Speaker 3: reception center. We're a hundred language for weeks and months

272
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,320
Speaker 3: trying to get together in the money to pay for

273
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,400
Speaker 3: a bus to the Panama Costa Lika border.

274
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:22,240
Speaker 4: I think I spent seven days in Banamah. What's short

275
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,840
Speaker 4: with money? So I went into immigration trying to ask

276
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,000
Speaker 4: them if you can they can help me to take

277
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:34,920
Speaker 4: a bus to Costa Rica, of which they say, no,

278
00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,520
Speaker 4: you have to pay your sixty dollars you're in your daughter,

279
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:39,520
Speaker 4: which one to India?

280
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:41,120
Speaker 5: So I pay that?

281
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:46,640
Speaker 4: So I ask you people man, the people I know,

282
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,520
Speaker 4: they helped me with money. So from Banama we took

283
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,320
Speaker 4: a bus from Banama to Costa Rica.

284
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,800
Speaker 3: This is a very common story. People borrow money from

285
00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,560
Speaker 3: a huge range of friends and relatives along the way

286
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,120
Speaker 3: they hope to get to the US, work hard, and

287
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,440
Speaker 3: be able to pay it back. The whole process takes

288
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,960
Speaker 3: every penny they've earned in their life and generate significant

289
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,920
Speaker 3: amounts of debt. In most cases. This is made worse

290
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,120
Speaker 3: by the fact that on arrival they will wait months,

291
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,760
Speaker 3: if not years, for work permit, and their immigration judge

292
00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,840
Speaker 3: could stop the clock on this at any time for

293
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:25,000
Speaker 3: any reason. Primros and Kim's case, Costady can move them

294
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,240
Speaker 3: through it to territory quickly, as they do with nearly

295
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,359
Speaker 3: all migrants. Next they arrived in Nicaragua.

296
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:36,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, to Nicaragua. Then in Nicaragua, I think we walk

297
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,920
Speaker 4: from Costa Rica border to Nicaragua border. Then we walk again.

298
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,880
Speaker 4: I think it was it was walk from yeah to

299
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,400
Speaker 4: Nicaragua bars tam in Us.

300
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,119
Speaker 5: We just walk. Then we when we reached.

301
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:57,720
Speaker 4: There, we paid again to wander Us. Then there's also

302
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,760
Speaker 4: place we walked from Hondas. From nicarag got to wander

303
00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:06,320
Speaker 4: Us by Steminas. I think it just was the old day.

304
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:13,880
Speaker 4: Then from wander Us Guatemalam. Yeah, in Guatemala we spent

305
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:19,440
Speaker 4: it three days again because it was tough Guatemala. People

306
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:23,600
Speaker 4: they really need asking for a lot of money. So

307
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:28,280
Speaker 4: my life was like asking people, asking people and do

308
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:29,960
Speaker 4: it and do it? Reach Mexico.

309
00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:35,760
Speaker 3: Then exhausted and broke, she in came made it to Mexico.

310
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,959
Speaker 3: That you only began in Zimbabwe and took them from

311
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,320
Speaker 3: there to South Africa, then to Brazil and across the continent.

312
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,400
Speaker 3: Now they had just warn more country to go before

313
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,200
Speaker 3: they made it. But I say, where to find out

314
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,240
Speaker 3: this one country is the one that so many migrants

315
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:52,199
Speaker 3: don't make it out of.

316
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:59,120
Speaker 4: Then in Mexico, my life was like in this because

317
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,200
Speaker 4: the day we charging a lot of money in In fact,

318
00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,639
Speaker 4: when we reach Mexico, we reached Tapatola and not before Tapatola,

319
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:13,600
Speaker 4: I just forget the name. So they took us in

320
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,160
Speaker 4: the bush where.

321
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:16,879
Speaker 5: We paid money.

322
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,760
Speaker 4: Again, when we paid money, they started seaching us. If

323
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,359
Speaker 4: we don't live CAUs, then they walk with us. It

324
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:29,880
Speaker 4: was two of midnight. They walk with us till they

325
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:34,040
Speaker 4: get a transport to take us to Tapatola. So when

326
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:39,359
Speaker 4: I reached Tapatola, I you know people. We were giving

327
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,359
Speaker 4: information to each other. So I was also following other people,

328
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:48,320
Speaker 4: like from Cameroons in Venezuela. So when we reached Tabachelo,

329
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,399
Speaker 4: we reached Tarpacholo on the ted of October twenty twenty four.

330
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,399
Speaker 3: Tapatula in the south of Mexico. It's where thousands of

331
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,800
Speaker 3: migrants sent up. The Mexican government that had a policy

332
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,760
Speaker 3: of trying to keep people there and began offering them

333
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,400
Speaker 3: free bus rides north. They had a CBP one appointment.

334
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,159
Speaker 3: But unlike places like Tijuana, where there have been migrants

335
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,920
Speaker 3: gathered for many decades, there are not as many services

336
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,040
Speaker 3: in Tapatula, and the shelters and services that exist there

337
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 3: are overwhelmed by the demand. The volume of migrants and

338
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,400
Speaker 3: the relative absence of services leaves a space open for abuse.

339
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,359
Speaker 3: That's what happened to Primrose and Kimberly. They ended up

340
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,080
Speaker 3: paying someone who they thought could help them navigate the

341
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,640
Speaker 3: complicated and convoluted system of registration in Mexico, the CBP

342
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,040
Speaker 3: one app and then traveling north to the USA and

343
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 3: ultimately being able to make their asylum claim. Finally, in

344
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,800
Speaker 3: the end, what they got was the opposite of help.

345
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,919
Speaker 4: Then the agents charged us four thousand each, which is

346
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,720
Speaker 4: me four thousand in the main twitter four thousand of

347
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 4: which I was I wasn't lift that month other people

348
00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:00,680
Speaker 4: that we're paying. So I just talked to the agent.

349
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,120
Speaker 4: Then I said, okay, you please go down a little

350
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,240
Speaker 4: bit because I'm a single party. And then I don't

351
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 4: have anyone to help me with that kind of money.

352
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 4: Then he said, okay, three point five. So I started

353
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:18,120
Speaker 4: asking people because the people I know, maybe they can

354
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,919
Speaker 4: help me. So I have a lady helped me with

355
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,160
Speaker 4: the money, which is she gave me four thousand years.

356
00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:32,879
Speaker 4: Then my mom saw my land. I was saving a

357
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 4: land with which she saw which leaves money. Then she

358
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,399
Speaker 4: said even also he is stuff to get another man

359
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:47,120
Speaker 4: to complete seven thousand. So we asked someone to send

360
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,880
Speaker 4: it to America. Goes in Mexico, they don't receive money

361
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,439
Speaker 4: from Africa, so I find someone here in America to

362
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,200
Speaker 4: receive the money, so send it to me in Mexico.

363
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 4: But when I paid the man, the agent took me.

364
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,359
Speaker 4: He said that way, I'm going to take you. So

365
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,879
Speaker 4: you sent the guys, which there were four mixed and guys.

366
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 4: So they come to feature us. We were six seven. Yeah,

367
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 4: I don't even know it.

368
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 5: They took us.

369
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 4: So they took us to the to the bush which

370
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 4: is Guajaradella. I can't even remember, is it. Yeah, I

371
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 4: think so. I spent day from October up to January.

372
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 3: In the background here you're here splashing. That's came playing

373
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:41,959
Speaker 3: in the pool. A little apartment complex where they were

374
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,159
Speaker 3: living in East La I just common for migrants to

375
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 3: share a flat with someone else. Didn't have much in

376
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 3: the way of furniture. But the last time I saw

377
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 3: primaries came. It was by the Tuquessa River in Last Plancas. There,

378
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 3: the brown water was something to be afraid of. Migrants

379
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 3: died crossing the river every day, away by the fast

380
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,200
Speaker 3: moving water and relying only on strangers to hold them

381
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 3: as the current tried to pull them in. A few

382
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 3: times I walked out into that river I felt the

383
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 3: tug of the current on my boots. I wondered what

384
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,479
Speaker 3: it must be like higher up in the mountains. At

385
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 3: six foot three. The river I crossed never came above

386
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 3: waist high. It's deeper higher up. But even then, reaching

387
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 3: out my hand to carry someone's bag or grab a

388
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 3: child's hand as they came from other direction and struggle

389
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 3: to keep their toddlers and their few possessions out of

390
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,679
Speaker 3: the current, I get little jolts of fear when I

391
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 3: stepped on a wet rock. His Primrose talking about that

392
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 3: part of her journey, I wasn't good.

393
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 8: My daughter.

394
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 4: She was strong, she was strong, but she was crying also,

395
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 4: but she had what wound all over the body. Even me,

396
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 4: I was crying myself. I was like, I want to

397
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,159
Speaker 4: just put myself in the water, then I can just go.

398
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 4: The Jane was tough, really really tough. The mountain, the stores,

399
00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 4: the river.

400
00:22:58,880 --> 00:22:59,719
Speaker 5: It's not easy.

401
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 4: It Oh, it's not a very I don't even recommended

402
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 4: someone to say you use that and give no. And

403
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 4: even myself I did know about it. Yeah, I was

404
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:11,640
Speaker 4: regretting myself.

405
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 5: I was crying.

406
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 4: I was like, God, I don't know my family and

407
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 4: my family they don't know where I am right now.

408
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 3: Back in Los Angeles, primers told me that she'd fallen

409
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 3: in the river and two Venezuelan men had jumped in

410
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 3: to pull her and came out total strangers on their

411
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 3: own journey, had risked their lives to help a woman

412
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,120
Speaker 3: and child who didn't know, with whom they couldn't even speak.

413
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 3: The river kills people who drink it too. The concentration

414
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 3: of human waste and human remains in the water makes

415
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 3: it incredibly dangerous to drink, even for people dying of thirst.

416
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 3: I couldn't stop thinking of that river and how much

417
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 3: it scared people, Feeling so grateful the Kimberley could still

418
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 3: enjoy the water after all of that. Next time, I said,

419
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 3: they could take the train down to San Diego and

420
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 3: we could all go to the beach. Let's go back

421
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 3: to Mexico. Now to Guadalajara, where many migrants told me

422
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 3: that of all the things they had endured, including the jungle,

423
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 3: things were the worst of all. Promoters arrival in Mexico

424
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 3: had not been great, and having paid one person, she

425
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 3: was now being held by another group and asked for

426
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 3: yet more money.

427
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 4: They were kid nipping me they were asking for fifteen

428
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 4: thousand dollars each. They said, you're not going to take you.

429
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 4: I think I was.

430
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 5: Crying, Kim. She was also crying.

431
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 4: The other people they will get money paid and leaves,

432
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 4: I think from my group. For the people they were

433
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 4: kids nipping. It was only me left in the Kim

434
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 4: and I was crying depression. I think of him, but

435
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 4: I tried. I tried, you want to escape, run away?

436
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 4: I feel down and my leg was something else. I

437
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 4: didn't even go to hospital. My leg was swollen, and

438
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 4: the way they would treat us it was paid, especially

439
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,439
Speaker 4: when I came the other one once touching me the

440
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 4: whole board like. I was like, please, if you want

441
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 4: to do something, you can do it to me. And

442
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 4: plus don't do it in front of my daughter because

443
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,959
Speaker 4: she was also crying. Disturbing. I didn't even go to hospital.

444
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 4: I asked them to go to hospital. They refuse. Yeah, James,

445
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 4: I'm too emotional. I'm sorry because.

446
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 3: Primrose understandably had trouble even recounting this story. It's not

447
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 3: the sort of memory that's easy to share. But just

448
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 3: when things seemed to be beyond repair, when it seemed

449
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 3: like there was nothing to hope for it was Kimberly

450
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 3: who came through to help her mom.

451
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, they no, So Kim Malish was like, uh, lending Spanish,

452
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 4: so she was understanding some of the winds.

453
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 5: So she's just telling me.

454
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 4: This guy also was like, why can't you leave this

455
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 4: woman because she doesn't live money. Because those people they

456
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,199
Speaker 4: took my phone, they even break it in front of

457
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 4: my eyes. The fhe I was heaving from Africa.

458
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 3: Kim Spanish was pretty good by the time I met

459
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 3: them in Los Angeles this summer. Went out for dinner

460
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 3: and I asked him what she'd liked to eat. She

461
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 3: said she wanted to try seafood and practice her Spanish.

462
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 3: So we went to a Mexican seafood place complete with

463
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 3: cabaina decord taxi dirmy fish on the wall, and the

464
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 3: waitress kindly helped Kim order in Spanish, patiently showing her

465
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 3: different menu items and smiling is Kim read them off.

466
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 3: It was a happy moment for me and what I

467
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 3: didn't think i'd ever be having when I moved here

468
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 3: in the bush Era, but that part of southern California

469
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 3: has always been a welcoming place for me. When I

470
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 3: was in my twenties and racing bugs for a living. I'd

471
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 3: fly into Lax and often ended up spending the night

472
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 3: at Union Station or Alvera Street before taking a train

473
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 3: to San Diego. I speak Spanish. I always felt like

474
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 3: the people I met there were such a better reflection

475
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 3: of la than the betrayal we see of it in

476
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 3: the media. Now. A decade and a half later, sitting

477
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 3: in a Mexican restaurant, when a lady from Nadie helped

478
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 3: the little girl from Zimbabwe speaks Spanish, it felt like

479
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 3: a little glimpse of the way we're told things are

480
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 3: here and the way they can be in working class communities.

481
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 3: A nation built by migrants, yes, on stolen land, but

482
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 3: one that nonetheless welcome people who needed help and took

483
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 3: the time to help them. Sadly, not everyone was helpful

484
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 3: on Kim and Primrose's journey, and when her captors realized

485
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 3: she had no money to pay them, they eventually just

486
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 3: decided to let her go.

487
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 4: I think on January seven or fifth, I don't remember.

488
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 4: Then they just took us. Then they just doumbus. I

489
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 4: don't even know. Then a star I saw an immigration

490
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 4: immigration officer with the guy with the car. Then I

491
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 4: stop him. Then I translate to ask him to Then

492
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 4: they said, okay, get inside the car. They took us

493
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 4: to immigration, so we get a pass from there to

494
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 4: another town. Because I was like shifting, shifting, shifting, asking

495
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:46,719
Speaker 4: to I get to Joanna. But those guys before they

496
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 4: told me like, wherever you go, even if you are

497
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 4: here in Mexico, we put a tracker for you, so

498
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 4: if you tell anyone, if we find you're going to

499
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 4: kill So me, I was scared. Yeah, I was scared.

500
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 4: So I didn't tell you, even the immigration officer.

501
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah. Do I get to te Joanna?

502
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 4: So we get to John on the trendred of Chanuy.

503
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 4: So I just asked the Mexicans people. Then there's a

504
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 4: guy also said okay, I would try to help you,

505
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 4: but you need to pay ye. Then I said I

506
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 4: don't leave money. Said if you don't leave money, we

507
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 4: can't help you. So I was like, I'm only asking people,

508
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 4: asking every people to help me, and the other people

509
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 4: they were just opening me was I said, people, we

510
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 4: look where I am with my daughter, I'm far, but

511
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 4: my family, the other family, especially my my other family

512
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 4: member the way, don't even know where I am M.

513
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 4: So those guys from to Joanna, they said, guys, if

514
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 4: you're much crossing today, you're not going to crosscous. Look

515
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 4: the president, you said, he's going to shut down all

516
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 4: the borders.

517
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 3: In between November and January, non stop roomors circulated in

518
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 3: giant whatsap groups. Trump was closing the border, Biden was

519
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 3: opening it. Most migrants didn't have the means to get

520
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 3: to the southern border even if they tried. CVP one

521
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 3: remained mostly useless, and people spent days, weeks, months refreshing

522
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 3: it to no avail. Those who did get appointments would

523
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 3: find them canceled once a new administration came into office.

524
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 3: Their reward for doing things in the so called right

525
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 3: way was to be left with no options in a

526
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:43,959
Speaker 3: country where they were anything but safe and far from home. Mostly,

527
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 3: my friends in the jungle have retained their incredibly good humor.

528
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 3: Delithroil and friends video caught me once when I was

529
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 3: on a hike. They started laughing at me sweating going uphill,

530
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 3: and paused a conversation to shout encouragement for a while.

531
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 3: A year after I left the jungle, I would still

532
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 3: be more than how happy to welcome these people as

533
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 3: my neighbors. But it seems unlikely I ever will. Border

534
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 3: crossings have dropped dramatically. They're not that's the administration sometimes

535
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 3: claims zero, but they are lower. People die crossing the

536
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 3: border still. Sometimes the volunteers you've heard in my last

537
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 3: series have to hike miles into the desert and sift

538
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 3: through sand and rocks to search their remains. Once nature

539
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 3: scatism like leaves blowing around the canyons. Sometimes I'm there

540
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 3: with them. Sometimes we all wooden crosses up mountains. So

541
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 3: don't have names on the map to mark the places

542
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 3: where people's dreams died. Those people don't get a viral

543
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,719
Speaker 3: video or a story in the New York Times, because

544
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 3: even at a time where people are more engaged than

545
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 3: they ever have been in my lifetime in advocacy for migrants,

546
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 3: there's still not much attention paid to the actual border

547
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 3: that every single migrant has to cross Tomorrow. That's what

548
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 3: we're going to talk about. But let's hear from Primrose

549
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 3: about had that same day, January twentieth, went for her.

550
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 4: Then they took us to the boat to the border,

551
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 4: but we couldn't get in the gates while they were closed.

552
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 4: Then they said no, we have an option. We need

553
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 4: to take you. But you know, for me, I had

554
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 4: to take it risk because I was scared to stay

555
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 4: in Mexico. So they took us with under the bridge,

556
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 4: I think the sewage. We were walking with our stomach

557
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:36,239
Speaker 4: like under the bridge to we get to USA and

558
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 4: Mexican borders. So they put ladder for us to help

559
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 4: us to but we paid them three fifty three fifty.

560
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 5: They charge.

561
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 4: I found the other people they also we were fifteen

562
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 4: years We were fifteen. Yeah, then the yop us to jump.

563
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 9: The departy.

564
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 10: Some of us are illegal and some are not wanted.

565
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 10: Our work contracts out and we have to move on

566
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 10: six hundred miles to that Mexico border. They chase us

567
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 10: like outlaws and rustlers, like thieves. Goodbye I one, goodbye.

568
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 9: Rosalidados and egos, Jesus and Maria. You won't have a

569
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 9: name when you ride the big airplane, and all we

570
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 9: will call.

571
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 11: You will be departy.

572
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 3: On the twenty eighth day of January nineteen forty eight,

573
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 3: a plane took off from Oakland, California. On board with

574
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 3: a crew, an Immigration Nationalization Service officer, and twenty eight

575
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 3: people who had come to the US to work in

576
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 3: the Brasero program. They were being sent to Elcentra, where

577
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 3: they were to be deported to Mexico. The pilot, Frankie Atkinson,

578
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 3: had found a job flying DC three's as a civilian

579
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 3: after flying the legendarily dangerous Hump route between India and

580
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 3: China in the Second World War. His wife, Bobby, herself

581
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 3: the daughter of a migrant mother, was filling in that

582
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 3: day as the usual flight attendants weren't available. On board

583
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 3: with twenty eight passengers, all headed back to Mexico after

584
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 3: United States, where they come to work, had decided it

585
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 3: didn't need or want them any longer. The plane never

586
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 3: landed in El Center. It was overdue for maintenance and

587
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,959
Speaker 3: its left engine court fire. Then it's wing ripped off

588
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 3: above co Linger, not so far from the fields where

589
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 3: many of them had worked for year after year. The

590
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 3: passengers were pulled out of the plane into the sky.

591
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 3: Most of them had never flown before. They must have

592
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 3: been nervous before they took off, and now their worst

593
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 3: fears were coming true. And those who survived the loss

594
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 3: of pressure and being ripped from the cabin, in some

595
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 3: cases still strapped to their seats must have had that

596
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 3: very worst fears confirmed as they plummeted toward the ground

597
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 3: that had only stopped being part of Mexico one hundred

598
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 3: years and four days before. Their bodies or parts of

599
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 3: them were scattered through the canyon as the plane slammed

600
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 3: into the ground. There weren't enough seats for all the passengers,

601
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 3: and so three of them were forced to sit on

602
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 3: their luggage at the back. The plane was over its

603
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 3: maximum wake capacity, and that might have been why the

604
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 3: white smoke began pouring out of its left engine over

605
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 3: Colinger Frankie, the pilot had survived crashes in this time

606
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 3: of the Air Force, so hopefully he was able to

607
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,959
Speaker 3: keep his pastures and crew calm until the engine burst

608
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 3: into flame. Some witnesses reported seeing people jump from the

609
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 3: plane after its left wing tore off and began to

610
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 3: plummet towards the ground, but it's just as likely that

611
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,760
Speaker 3: they were pulled out. The plane hit the ground about

612
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 3: a mile east of Fresno County Industrial Road camp or

613
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 3: incarcerated people were being forced to work. In Mates were

614
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 3: immediately dispatched to comb the hills through remains of people

615
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 3: aboard the plane. Locals like Red shoulders whose rinds are

616
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 3: plane crashed on, rushed up there to join them, and

617
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 3: they hoped to help the survivors. On finding none, they

618
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 3: began to fight the fire. Around the wreckage. Prisoners found luggage,

619
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 3: women's shoes, and babies, clothes, them bodies, some of them

620
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 3: still in their seats, littered throughout the canyon. Only sixteen

621
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 3: sets of remained whoever identified, including the entire crew and

622
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 3: the irons guard. Bobby, identified by her engagement ring, was

623
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 3: pregnant at the time. She was buried with Frankie in

624
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 3: New York. Frankie's co pilot, Martin Ewing, was buried with

625
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 3: military honors. Frank Chaffin, the ins agent, was buried back

626
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 3: in Berkeley. The remains of the twenty eight deportees, or

627
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 3: whatever had been found of them, were buried on mass

628
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 3: in Holy Cross Cemetery in Fresno. Hundreds of local Latino people,

629
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 3: most of whom didn't know that, turned up towards to

630
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 3: twenty eight coffins, some of which were empty, be interred

631
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 3: in the eighty four for a hole in the ground

632
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 3: that was reserved for them. The hole was covered with

633
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 3: dirt and eventually with grass, and there they remained without names,

634
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 3: without their families being told, for three quarters of a century.

635
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 3: The next day, The New York Times reported on the

636
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:50,760
Speaker 3: story the worst aviation accident in California history. The names, ages,

637
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 3: and hometowns of the crew and the irons agent were given,

638
00:37:54,480 --> 00:38:00,720
Speaker 3: along with quote twenty eight Mexican agricultural workers. Wives apparently

639
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 3: were unremarkable, and even in death, they didn't deserve the

640
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 3: dignity of being mentioned by name. Like people, It's a

641
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 3: story that, eighty years later, is only too familiar. The

642
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 3: song we up in this episode with was written by

643
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 3: an American anti fascist folk musician named Woody Guthrie. Like

644
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 3: many of his songs, it's a protest song. It recalls

645
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 3: the plane wreck. There's one home recording of him singing

646
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 3: it to a tune that isn't used to sing a

647
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 3: song today. It was only uncovered a few months ago.

648
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 3: Guthrie has moved to write it when he noticed that

649
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 3: in a reporting on the crash none of them migrants

650
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 3: who were being deported on the plane were named. He

651
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,240
Speaker 3: wrote the song as a poem because at a time

652
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 3: his Huntington's career had made it hard for him to

653
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 3: sing and strum the guitar. Later, a student of Colorado

654
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 3: A and M named Marty Hoffman set the poem to

655
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 3: a Mexican Branchera melody. It didn't become popular as a

656
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,280
Speaker 3: song until Guthrie's friend Pete Seger began performing get at concerts.

657
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,919
Speaker 3: Hoffman had played it to him when Sega had visited

658
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 3: the campus Ballad club. Guthrie, whose guitar famously carried the

659
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 3: slogan this machine Kills Fascists, was in declining health by

660
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 3: the time he wrote the poem in nineteen forty eight,

661
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 3: and he never lived to hear it sung. Hoffman, who

662
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 3: died by suicide in Red Rock, Arizona, where he was

663
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 3: teaching on the Navajo Reservation, died right as Joan Bayez

664
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 3: was recording the song in the studio. Today, it's one

665
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 3: of Guthrie's best known works, of course, when he wrote

666
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 3: the song to his discuss, Guthrie didn't know the name

667
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 3: to the people on the plane. He imagined them in

668
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 3: his poem as Juan Maria Rosalita, the sort of people

669
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 3: he might meet on any given day as a touring

670
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 3: musician who was finally received by working people wherever he went.

671
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 3: I know a juan A Maria and a rose from

672
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 3: the Darien Gap. I've also searched in the hills and

673
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 3: the mountains, so the remains of people whose names I

674
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 3: don't know eighty years later. So the song resonates with me.

675
00:39:58,320 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 10: Father's old father.

676
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 9: He waited that river.

677
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 8: Other before him have done just the same.

678
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 3: They died in the hill, and they died.

679
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 8: In the valley, somewhere to heaven without any name. Goodbye

680
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 8: to my one good prose a leader adius me amvil

681
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 8: presusbody else.

682
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 12: You won't have a name.

683
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 13: When you ride the big airway.

684
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 3: All they will call you will leader. Before the twenty

685
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 3: five men and three women aboard came to the US

686
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 3: to fill labor shortages after World War Two as a

687
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 3: result of an agreement between the two states called the

688
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,359
Speaker 3: Brassero Program. The Mexican government didn't want to lose its

689
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 3: whole agricultural workforce. I wanted to ensure that workers in

690
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 3: the US would send a portion of their wages home,

691
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 3: so it held these wages in accounts, which some of

692
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,720
Speaker 3: them never saw again for years. The Mexican government refused

693
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 3: to extend the program to Texas because of racist violence there.

694
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 3: People who entered the program waited months, and when they

695
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 3: crossed the border, they were subject to abusive searches, spraying

696
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 3: with DDT and in some places zyclon B same gas

697
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 3: used in the gas chambers the Holocaust was used to

698
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 3: hose down their clothes. When they got to the US,

699
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 3: many of them worked in very poor conditions. Many chose

700
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 3: not to wait and instead crossed without papers. Some farmers

701
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 3: hired them for much less than the minimum Bressello program

702
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 3: wage and put them to work in worse conditions in

703
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 3: the program permitted. Others worked their alloted contracts in the program,

704
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 3: and they stayed, hoping to make a better life in

705
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 3: the USA or to earn some money they could keep

706
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 3: before they went home. Many of them came and went

707
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 3: several times, returning home until them need to make more

708
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 3: money overwhelmed the desire to remain and work their heroes

709
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 3: or parcels across Mexico. The Mexican government wanted those who

710
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,320
Speaker 3: travel without a contract to be barred from being hired,

711
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 3: and in many case government officials in Mexico accepted bribes

712
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 3: to allow worker to enter the program. Just as it

713
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 3: is today, everyone made money apart from the migrants Basserro's

714
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 3: letters were censored to prevent them asking their families to

715
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 3: join them, but nonetheless a racist panic about undocumented migration began,

716
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 3: especially after Frankie and thousands of others return from the

717
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 3: war and the manpower shortage was not so acute. This,

718
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 3: combined with demands from the Mexican government, led to Eisenhower

719
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 3: eventually adopting a program whose name is a slur to catch, detain,

720
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,840
Speaker 3: and deport Mexican people to parts of their birth country

721
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 3: they'd never been to, far from the border, far from

722
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 3: their families and communities. The operation, which focused on rapid

723
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 3: deportations and border regions, is often cited as an inspiration

724
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 3: for today's border issue. Seventy six years after Guthrie wrote

725
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 3: his song, very little has changed in the way the

726
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 3: legacy media covers migration. Maybe that's why everyone from Dolly

727
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 3: Parton to Bob Dylan, Chris Christofferson, will and Jennings, Johnny Cash,

728
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 3: Willie Nelson, and Bruce Springsteen a sung a version of

729
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 3: this song. Here's Johnny Cash describing the song before a

730
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 3: TV performance.

731
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 8: Johnny Cash, I understand this is a true story. This

732
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 8: is from our album The Highwayman. Jona Rodriguez was on

733
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 8: an album as well. On this song, you understand it

734
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 8: is a true story what it got wrote this about

735
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 8: a plane crash in was it Los Bato's Canyon, taking

736
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 8: a plainload of Mexicans back after they worked for whatever

737
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 8: they could get in this country. It's one of those

738
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 8: old stories about malfreedment of aliens.

739
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 3: One of those old stories. He says, it seems so

740
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 3: hopeful in nineteen eighty seven, like we wouldn't be writing

741
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 3: anymore because most people could accept that nobody should treat

742
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 3: other people like that. Anyway. That was before country music

743
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,399
Speaker 3: was entirely dominated by boot liquors. And here I am

744
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 3: playing it to you again, eighty years after it was written,

745
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 3: because it is still relevant. Dolly Parton's singing it.

746
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 13: My father's own father, he waited that room. They took

747
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:19,280
Speaker 13: all the money he made in his life.

748
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 4: My brothers and.

749
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 13: Sisters come working the fruit trees. They rolled the truck

750
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 13: till they took down down. The airplane caught fire over

751
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 13: Lascatto's Canyon, a fireball of lightning that shook all he

752
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 13: who are these dear friends are scattered like dry leys.

753
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 13: The radio set. They weren't yes, the poem.

754
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 7: Good Night tom.

755
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 3: I as a song puts it. The bodies of the

756
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 3: workers were scattered like dry leaves across Los Gatos Canyon.

757
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 3: The bodies of those twenty eight people, the parts that

758
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 3: were recovered, were buried in a mass grave at the

759
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 3: Holy Cross Cemetery in Fresno, mark later thanks to a

760
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 3: donation with a small plaque calling the Mexican nationals, although

761
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 3: one of them was also Spanish. The hard work of

762
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 3: finding these people's names was taken up by people not

763
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 3: even alive when that plane crashed. Many of their relatives

764
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 3: did not even know they were buried there until Carlos Rascon,

765
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:51,399
Speaker 3: the Fresno Diocese director of Cemeteries, and Tim Hernandez, an

766
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 3: author and professor at UTL Paso, dedicated themselves to naming them.

767
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 3: In twenty thirteen, a new headstone was directed with their

768
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 3: names and as Sarah Many, which packed the cemetery. Hernandez

769
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,399
Speaker 3: had found after years of hard work, by locating one

770
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 3: of their nephews a copy of El Faro, a local

771
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 3: Spanish language newspaper, which provided a list that was more

772
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 3: accurate than that in the Fresno County Records Department. It

773
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 3: wasn't until September twenty eighth, twenty twenty four, when I

774
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 3: just left Primrose and Kimberly in Las Blancas, that a

775
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 3: proper memorial was built for them in the Canyon. Families

776
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 3: traveled from across the US and Mexico to open the memorial.

777
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 3: Some of them were funded by Woody Guthrie's grandchildren. The

778
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 3: names of all twenty eight of them were included. They

779
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 3: were Miguel ne Grete, Alvarez, Francisco Jamas, Duran, Santiago Garcia, Elisondo,

780
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 3: Rosalio Padia, Estrada, Bernabe, Lopez, Garcia, Ramon Parerees Gonzalez, Tomas

781
00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:04,760
Speaker 3: Alvigna de Garcia, Salvador Sandoval, Ernajui, Lupe Ramerez, Lara Severo, Medina,

782
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 3: Lara Elias, Trujill Massias, Jose Rodriguez, Massias, Tomas Padia, Marquez,

783
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 3: Luis Lopez, Merdina, Manuel Calderon, Marino, Luis Queves, Miranda, Martin, Razo, Navarro, Ignacio, Perez, Navarro,

784
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 3: Roman Choa Choa, Apollonio Ramirez, Placentia, Alberto Carlos, Regosa, Jui,

785
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 3: Lupe Ernandez, Rodriguez, Maria Santana, Rodriguez, Juan Valenzuela Ruiz, Whenceeslao

786
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 3: Flores Ruiz, Jose Valdivia Sanchez, Jesus Mesa, Santos, Baldomero, Marcus Torres,

787
00:47:54,600 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 3: Francis c. Atkinson, Lillian k Atkinson, Marion h Ewing, and

788
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 3: Frank E. Chaffin. Think about the song an Awful Lot.

789
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 3: The first time I heard it was known a CD

790
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 3: compilation of Spanish anarchist songs. The fundamental decency of giving

791
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 3: a deceased name, treating them like people, not a human waste,

792
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 3: seems so basic, and yet three quarters a century later,

793
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 3: reporting hasn't got any better. A few times in my

794
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 3: years at the border, I've searched for people and the

795
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 3: remains of people whose names I don't know, just as

796
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 3: some of my friends have erected little wooden crosses, some

797
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 3: with names and some without, to people who he never

798
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,839
Speaker 3: got to meet but somehow still grieve. There are lots

799
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 3: of people whose names and faces are Dodo who never

800
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 3: made it to the USA. They didn't even get an

801
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:57,919
Speaker 3: anonymous story. The people who die for the American cream

802
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 3: are totally ignored in the coverage of migration. The real

803
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:05,240
Speaker 3: cost of our border externalization, little children and loving parents

804
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 3: who have to die so politicians via the Party can

805
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 3: brag about secure borders are completely invisible to most people

806
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 3: in this country. Seventy seven years less, one week after

807
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 3: Times published its story which are raised People killed in

808
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 3: the Los Gatos Canyon, it published a video. The video

809
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 3: shows Primrose lying on the floor in agony. She climbed

810
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 3: the wall on the ladder and then fell into the USA.

811
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 3: On landing, she broke her leg. The story, just like

812
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 3: that story in nineteen forty eight, doesn't name her or Kim.

813
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 3: It refers to a group of migrants and calls Primros

814
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 3: one woman too fair. The piece did interview other migrants,

815
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 3: but as is often the case, and migrants from Africa

816
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 3: get the worst treatment of all. The piece and the

817
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 3: hundreds of other social media posted a video from other outlets.

818
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,280
Speaker 3: Don't tell readers about the persecution and torture Primrose faced

819
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 3: at home about the fact she doesn't know where her

820
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 3: father disappeared to and that her whole family is in hiding.

821
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 3: It doesn't bother to mention that she and Kim walk

822
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 3: for six months to get to the border, that they

823
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 3: were kidnapped, robbed, and traumatized on the way doesn't even

824
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 3: give their names. Unlike the people who died in Los

825
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 3: Gatos Canyon, Primos is here to tell us how it

826
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 3: feels to see her pain turned into pay views by

827
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 3: outlets with huge global platforms.

828
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's you, to be honest. Even now, I feel

829
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 4: it's embarrassing me because when I was in Texas, like

830
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 4: if I made people they say, are you not the

831
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,879
Speaker 4: one will feel downe For me, it's like something else

832
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 4: because I was not a appie for the person who

833
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 4: put me in social media. Even even when I go

834
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 4: to the comments, some of the comments were paid and

835
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 4: the other people they don't even know what was really

836
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 4: happened to me. I was running for my life. But

837
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 4: people they just come into whatever they want. So that

838
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 4: video even now I'm not even happy. Yes, I know

839
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 4: people they make money with my video. Maybe sh you

840
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 4: was supposed the person who posted me was supposib maybe

841
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 4: to close my face or to do something. And a

842
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:19,439
Speaker 4: lot of people they even don't know where I am.

843
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:25,439
Speaker 4: But because of that video, it went viral even in

844
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 4: my country. People that were sending messages.

845
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 5: That's why.

846
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 4: Uh, the other people they went to my mom and

847
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 4: started torture DA because they they taught maybe I'm in country,

848
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,839
Speaker 4: but because of that video, they went to disturb my mom.

849
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 4: She's not even where I grew up now in the

850
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 4: or she just move. She's somewhere else now. So I

851
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 4: don't even know who posted the video, and.

852
00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 5: I think I need to.

853
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:04,359
Speaker 4: I don't know what to get it, buddy, I'm very

854
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 4: angry with the personal all posted the video. Maybe they

855
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 4: should maybe asking me, or to find me, or to

856
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,399
Speaker 4: hide my face in the way Kim malistay my daughter

857
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 4: when you ask you about the video, she cries to

858
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 4: be honest, just.

859
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 3: Like those people who died in the plane crash. Promos

860
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:26,760
Speaker 3: reserves better. I first saw the video of her falling

861
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 3: on TikTok. I think I feel like it was shared

862
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 3: by the Wall Street Journal, but I haven't been able

863
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,720
Speaker 3: to locate the post again. Where I saw a friend,

864
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 3: someone else saw a way to make a bug. It's

865
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 3: a kind of extractive reporting that I spent my whole

866
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 3: career trying not to replicate. The Times and plenty of

867
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 3: other outlets have what they see is high standards of

868
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 3: journalistic objectivity. I don't think it will surprise anyone that

869
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,399
Speaker 3: I fall afoul of those, which is fine. I don't

870
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:53,760
Speaker 3: want to be trying to find the middle ground between

871
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 3: someone running for her life and someone trying to make

872
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 3: money from her misery. Nonetheless, we have to live in

873
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 3: a world where the vast majority of people get their

874
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:03,800
Speaker 3: information from outlets who see migrants of stories and a

875
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 3: political issue, not as people. We have to live with

876
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 3: the consequences of that. We're seeing them all now every day.

877
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 3: This isn't a story about the New York Times. A

878
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 3: long time ago, I realized my career wasn't going in

879
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 3: the direction that was going to put me on the

880
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:23,240
Speaker 3: mast head of those big newspapers, because I care about

881
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 3: people like Primrose and Kimberly and not about big newspapers.

882
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 3: This is a story about Primrose and Kimberley, so let's

883
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 3: hear why they left Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe, if you don't know,

884
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 3: has been ruled by the same party since nineteen eighty

885
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 3: the ZENOPF. ZENOPF has been led for three decades with

886
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 3: Robert mcgaby. It has been the only party to hold

887
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 3: the presidency since independence. The office has only changed hands once,

888
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 3: when mcgaby's former VP replaced him after mcgaby resigned and

889
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:53,319
Speaker 3: a threat of impeachment and a coup. The opposition has

890
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,280
Speaker 3: taken different forms over time, but never managed to dislodge

891
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 3: one party rule. When it has got close, it has

892
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 3: been with extreme violence. I think Premise knows only too well.

893
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 4: It's not like we just it's a luxury to come

894
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 4: to America for beggars. If I wanted to come to

895
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 4: America for bigger I would maybe go and apply for

896
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 4: the visa.

897
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 3: But us is a.

898
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 4: Youth is people who wants to change our country. They

899
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 4: don't even make you to find a way to go

900
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 4: to make a visa because the zimbabwe Zee a tough country,

901
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 4: especial for us young people, young generation. They can even

902
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:41,839
Speaker 4: kill you in Simbabwe. We can't even protesting for our

903
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 4: rights in Simbabwe because we skied for the government is

904
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:51,720
Speaker 4: running the country, which is NPF. We are really scared.

905
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 4: I if people, a lot of people lose a lot

906
00:54:55,160 --> 00:55:02,279
Speaker 4: of friends. Kidney killed me also in Zimbabwe, they even

907
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 4: tortured me wanting to kill me. So that's why even

908
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 4: I don't even know it's Kimbalda's father since twenty seven,

909
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 4: I don't even know where it is. Maybe it's dead

910
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 4: or it's not even dead. I don't even know where

911
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 4: is because they also run away. Even now as I'm

912
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:26,279
Speaker 4: speaking right now, I'm stressed, like I don't even know

913
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,839
Speaker 4: where it's my father, Yeah, I don't even know where

914
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 4: he is. Also, it just so our governments, our Zimbabwe,

915
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 4: it's a relative for us. Yeah, they don't give us

916
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 4: time or they don't give us as a young generation.

917
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:50,280
Speaker 4: They think themselves and then they are they are families

918
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 4: and they econ on me. There's no even if you

919
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 4: go to school, there's no jobs. There's a lot of

920
00:55:56,360 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 4: graduates people staying home. They a vendas podcas, no jobs.

921
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 5: Nothing.

922
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 4: If you want to stay in the ends for your rights,

923
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 4: they tortured you, killed you disappear. There's a lot of

924
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 4: people will disappear in Szimbabwe just before see your needs

925
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 4: to change.

926
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 3: Under Mugabe, Zimbabwe experience rapid economic decline and hyperinflation at

927
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 3: various times. Mugaby has blamed his own form of colonial powers,

928
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 3: which is reasonable and a quote gay mafia, which is

929
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 3: what you get when you have a single manachar to

930
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 3: your state, ruling by whim from the moment of liberation

931
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:41,840
Speaker 3: until just two years before his death from rus Like

932
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 3: many in her country, like many people from all over

933
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,360
Speaker 3: the world, wanted a better future. It was something she

934
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:50,759
Speaker 3: and her family had advocated for. Having seen people she

935
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 3: loved disappear, never knowing if they were alive or dead,

936
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 3: never even getting the closure of a funeral, she decided

937
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 3: she couldn't risk leaving Kimberly alone, and so she took

938
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:05,320
Speaker 3: her daughter and fled it. Fled to South Africa, but

939
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 3: violence followed them there.

940
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 4: Especially in South Africa. People are killed with Sonofobia. People

941
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 4: are killed, you know, so it's not also even safe

942
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 4: for us to stay in South Africa.

943
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 5: That's why, especially in me. To be honest, the Jena

944
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 5: was not even planned.

945
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 4: I was just asking people and when I reached brass people,

946
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 4: they were just talking, let's godless, collless. But I was

947
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 4: also following those people do I get here? So it's

948
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 4: not like we came here for luxury or for what.

949
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 1: For me.

950
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 5: I just came here for my life. I just ran

951
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 5: for for my life.

952
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 4: I just need my life in my daughter's life, because

953
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 4: if I died today, I don't know if anybody can

954
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 4: look after my daughter, especially when in my country, because

955
00:57:58,840 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 4: things are tough for my mom.

956
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,040
Speaker 5: Of course, my father just disappeared.

957
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 3: What people can't easily travel around the world. Concept like xenophobia, bigotry, sexism, homophobia.

958
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 3: They're not just American issues. They're global issues. And that's

959
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 3: why we say nobody's free until everybody's free.

960
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 5: We just grew up in a.

961
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 4: Poor family. So but it's tough to be honest. It's

962
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 4: a relative.

963
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 14: For me.

964
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:32,439
Speaker 4: I'm not even one hundred percent, Okay, I'm still lots

965
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 4: of memories trace Yeah, and I remember one of my friends,

966
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 4: her name was Memory. She died also, we were together,

967
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 4: died in the Zimbabwe when they kidnaped us for five days.

968
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 5: So she just died. Listen to us twenty twenty twenty TWENTYA.

969
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 3: She just died.

970
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 5: Because we were fighting for our future.

971
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 11: Yeah, but.

972
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 5: It's tough.

973
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's me talking to Primrose on that river bank

974
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 3: about but why she left South Africa.

975
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:25,200
Speaker 5: I'm just flying. No, it's only me and my daughter.

976
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 4: Yeah.

977
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 3: Was it hard to see a future for her there?

978
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 5: It's very hard.

979
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 3: Explain the situation there.

980
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 8: The.

981
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 4: Situation where in where the situation for me, it was tough.

982
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 4: I just ran away to South Africa. In South Africa

983
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 4: was not safe. Solophobia and uh, they almost secure me

984
00:59:55,880 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 4: and my boyfriend and even my my big father was

985
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 4: abusive too much. Because of the politics. I'm opposition party,

986
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 4: So it was now even in South Africa, I was

987
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:17,960
Speaker 4: not safe at all. It was those people. They were

988
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 4: like following me and my daughter. So I spent three

989
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 4: months on the road coming here. I leave South Africa,

990
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 4: I think fourth of July till now I'm in Panama.

991
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 5: I'm still walking.

992
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 3: Yes, that was September. She finally entered the USA in January,

993
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 3: crossing into a very different country than the one she'd

994
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 3: set out for. Her story is unique. Every migrant story is,

995
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 3: but it's not unusual. He spent as much time talking

996
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 3: to migrant society. You will learn a lot about the

997
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 3: hardships regular people face all over the world. You'll also

998
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 3: learn about the dreams people have and how little they

999
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 3: really differ. Let's take, for example, the protest we recently

1000
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:11,880
Speaker 3: saw in Nepal. Those didn't come as a huge shock

1001
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 3: because I met dozens of Nepalese political opposition members. Here's

1002
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 3: when I spoke to us. We sheltered in the porch

1003
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 3: of nmber our house in Bahjiqito in a rainstorm last September.

1004
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 3: The little room was filled with sleeping pads and tired bodies.

1005
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 3: I spent a lot of time there sitting on the

1006
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 3: floor talking to people. A new story is one of

1007
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 3: many I heard just in that one room, from all

1008
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 3: over the world.

1009
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 15: Yeah, because it's not safe in my country. That's why

1010
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:38,480
Speaker 15: I want to go to the States, because there is

1011
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 15: right and freedom.

1012
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, what makes it not safe in your country?

1013
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 7: Yeah?

1014
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 15: There are many political reasons. Yeah, and I am from

1015
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:52,919
Speaker 15: a different political like Congress. Okay, I'm from Congress. That's

1016
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 15: a small member, not a big plans to man, but

1017
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 15: that Opposit party, you know, yeah, they won, they won the.

1018
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 7: Constitution.

1019
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 3: So yeah, so they think you uh yeah, Okay, if

1020
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 3: you wanting how someone come from the mountains in Nepal

1021
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:14,640
Speaker 3: to a small village in the Panamanian jungle and to

1022
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 3: be briefly sharing a tiny room with people from Venezuela, Cameroon, China,

1023
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:21,160
Speaker 3: and Bolivia, all seeking the same thing.

1024
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:27,240
Speaker 15: His hell, I took a plan from Nepal to Dubai,

1025
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 15: he said, there two months, okay.

1026
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:34,040
Speaker 7: Then after that I went to Qatar.

1027
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:35,360
Speaker 13: Yeah.

1028
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 7: From Qatar, I went to Brazil. I stayed in Refusiician

1029
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:43,520
Speaker 7: for at least two weeks, yeah.

1030
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 16: Yeah.

1031
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:48,000
Speaker 15: Then after that I came out from Brazil, took a bus,

1032
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 15: then traveled for two much a long time, maybe twenty

1033
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:55,800
Speaker 15: four hours or twenty five hours.

1034
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:56,520
Speaker 3: Wow.

1035
01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 13: Ye.

1036
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 15: Then I went to I caught some friends. They took

1037
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 15: me to Bolivia. We need to cross through jungle, but

1038
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 15: it was small, not a long way.

1039
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was good.

1040
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 15: And after Bolivia I took the ride to bus. I

1041
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 15: took at least maybe forty eight hours in a bus.

1042
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:22,880
Speaker 12: Yeah.

1043
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:23,400
Speaker 17: Wow.

1044
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 15: Man. Then I went to the border of Peru and

1045
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 15: there was some boat to take us across, and I

1046
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 15: went across to Peru, stayed in a hotel that night.

1047
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:38,400
Speaker 15: Then after that it came out and again wrote the

1048
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 15: bus for twenty six hours to Lima. Then after Lima

1049
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 15: again twenty six hours to Tulcan. Then after Tulcan, I

1050
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 15: got a taxi and that taxi was to cross the

1051
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 15: border to equad Okay, and so I went to Effader

1052
01:03:57,680 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 15: in that taxi and they came Cousino.

1053
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 7: Well yeah, we stayed for two to.

1054
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:08,200
Speaker 15: Three hours in the hotel. Then at night again traveling wow.

1055
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 15: Then again traveled to Colombia. After Colombia, rode another bus

1056
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 15: and rode to Colombia and Panama borders to Nicoli. Nicoli

1057
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:28,080
Speaker 15: to Nicoli and we stayed maybe one week in Nicoli.

1058
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 15: After that, I took a board to or from Kapurana.

1059
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 13: Uh.

1060
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:38,600
Speaker 7: There was some bikes. The pike took us to a

1061
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:40,800
Speaker 7: camp at the border.

1062
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 4: Oow.

1063
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 7: At the camp, I raised nearly at six pm.

1064
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:51,960
Speaker 15: Then after some people came there and they were responsible

1065
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 15: to cross the border to Panama.

1066
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 7: Then we walked to at nine pm. We walked through May.

1067
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:04,200
Speaker 7: We walked to till here forty four hours.

1068
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:05,440
Speaker 13: Wow.

1069
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 12: Yeah.

1070
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:08,280
Speaker 3: I asked a Nuke what he had to say to

1071
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 3: people in America, because he had excellent English and I

1072
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 3: have this platform to share. He was more than aware

1073
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 3: of the US just course her own migrants, and he

1074
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:18,400
Speaker 3: said he'd been watching videos about it.

1075
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 15: Well, that's everyone is human being. Yeah, yeah, because we

1076
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 15: have some problems, so we need to live our country right.

1077
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, we need to be.

1078
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 7: Kind to each other. Yeah, we need to be kind. Yeah.

1079
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 3: I haven't heard from Minuke since then. I have no

1080
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:38,720
Speaker 3: idea where he and his friends are or how the

1081
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:42,680
Speaker 3: journey across three continents ended. Like so many other migrants,

1082
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 3: he disappeared for me in the massive humanity heading north.

1083
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:49,560
Speaker 3: I still think about all the people I haven't heard from.

1084
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:52,440
Speaker 3: Sometimes I'll see people who look like them and I'll

1085
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 3: get excited. But if they're in the USA now, they're

1086
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 3: probably afraid of going out. Much became all this way,

1087
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 3: they rest their lives, They saw people die, and now

1088
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 3: once again the hiding from men in masks with guns.

1089
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:09,000
Speaker 3: His Rose, young woman from Bolivia. Think about Rose a lot.

1090
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 3: She was a young mum traveling alone, trying to find

1091
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 3: a better future for her family and risking her life

1092
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 3: in the process. She seemed young and happy most of

1093
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:20,600
Speaker 3: the time, but she had a sort of tiredness in

1094
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 3: her eyes that really stayed with me after several conversations

1095
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 3: we had in Baja Jigito. I don't really know why.

1096
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 3: It just seemed so sad that she was away from

1097
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 3: her kids, and someone who so obviously was predisposed to

1098
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:35,200
Speaker 3: joy looked so tired and sad all on her own there.

1099
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 3: It felt like her only chance had a better future.

1100
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 3: She was very open about how hard it all was.

1101
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 3: I remember one day I didn't feel like recording, just

1102
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 3: sitting on the side of the raised walkway in Bajra

1103
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 3: Juqito with her feet in the hot, wet mud, watching

1104
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 3: people walk by talking with her like I talked with

1105
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 3: any other friend about our homes and our families and

1106
01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 3: the election that was two months away. At that point,

1107
01:06:58,080 --> 01:06:59,920
Speaker 3: she was hanging out with a group of Venezuelans in

1108
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:02,360
Speaker 3: but they must have been separated because they've asked me

1109
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 3: about her since, just like so many other people, I

1110
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 3: have no idea where she is. It seems so sad

1111
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:09,600
Speaker 3: to me that we've made a word where a woman

1112
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:12,200
Speaker 3: who wants the future for kids has to risk her life,

1113
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 3: maybe lose it for a liner, just to come here

1114
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 3: and ask for help and then still be denied, and

1115
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:21,840
Speaker 3: then if she gets here, to be chased, harried and harassed.

1116
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:30,240
Speaker 11: Yes, the situation there in Bolivia right now, we're practically

1117
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 11: economically well, we're in very bad shape. It's kind of

1118
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:38,080
Speaker 11: like Venezuela. What motivates me to travel is more than

1119
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:43,439
Speaker 11: anything work because there you can't work, you can't earn enough,

1120
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 11: you know, you have to work a lot, but they

1121
01:07:47,240 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 11: pay you very little, you know, so there's a lot

1122
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 11: of a lot of poverty. So that's what motivates me

1123
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 11: to keep going to work in another country, to migrate,

1124
01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 11: because I also have a family, they have children. So

1125
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 11: that's what motivates me to go to another country to work.

1126
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:09,080
Speaker 11: It's the future for them, yes, a better future for them,

1127
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:10,680
Speaker 11: for my children.

1128
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:15,240
Speaker 3: I asked her to share her journey. How have been

1129
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 3: just to get this little wet village that welcomes people

1130
01:08:18,120 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 3: in the middle of the jungle.

1131
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 11: We left Friday morning to go to the jungle. Right, Well,

1132
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 11: let me explain honestly, it's not easy. It's very hard

1133
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:35,880
Speaker 11: because I've seen quite a few people. There are many

1134
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:40,559
Speaker 11: pregnant women, there are women with children. There are elderly people,

1135
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 11: there are adults. There are people who come with crutches.

1136
01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 11: There are people who break bones if they're feet fall

1137
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:52,960
Speaker 11: off the edge. There are people who faint. There are

1138
01:08:53,240 --> 01:08:57,679
Speaker 11: quite a lot of people and have difficult situations because

1139
01:08:57,680 --> 01:08:59,599
Speaker 11: you have to climb a hill which takes at least

1140
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 11: day out. You have to climb. You have to carry

1141
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 11: your backpack, your food, your clothes, your supplies, everything you

1142
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:13,720
Speaker 11: need for the journey, your water. So it's very hard,

1143
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:21,519
Speaker 11: very hard. And you go up up and you arrive

1144
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 11: at what is the border of Panama with Columbia, which

1145
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:29,080
Speaker 11: is called the Flags. You get there and from there

1146
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 11: you have to go down down, down. That takes at

1147
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:36,720
Speaker 11: least another eight hours. You have to go down all day.

1148
01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 11: On Friday, it took us all day. We had to

1149
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:45,000
Speaker 11: sleep on the side on the edge of a river bank.

1150
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:45,760
Speaker 7: More or less.

1151
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:49,519
Speaker 11: There were about two hundred of us, if I'm not mistaken,

1152
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:54,559
Speaker 11: we are about two hundred people, one hundred and fifty

1153
01:09:55,280 --> 01:10:00,240
Speaker 11: two hundred people traveling and sleeping there. We camped two

1154
01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 11: hundred of us. Yes, there are children. There are babies

1155
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:09,120
Speaker 11: two months old, one month old, three months old.

1156
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:09,800
Speaker 3: One year old.

1157
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:14,320
Speaker 11: So there are children, and they are really the ones

1158
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:17,960
Speaker 11: who suffer the most on this journey. Yes, So that

1159
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:22,000
Speaker 11: night we slept. The next day, which would be Saturday,

1160
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:25,040
Speaker 11: we came back again at six in the morning. We

1161
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 11: set off walking all day. We had to climb hills.

1162
01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:31,280
Speaker 11: We had to cross rivers that come up to your shoulders,

1163
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:34,920
Speaker 11: up to your neck. They really come up. There are

1164
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:40,160
Speaker 11: quite a few rivers. There's mud, there are mountains. There

1165
01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 11: are those rocks that you slip on and die. There

1166
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:45,800
Speaker 11: are mountains that you have to climb. Of course, if

1167
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:47,439
Speaker 11: you don't want to go meet God, you have to

1168
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:52,960
Speaker 11: climb mountains that are slippery with stones rocks, and you

1169
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 11: keep going like that. All day downriver, walking walking walking.

1170
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:04,679
Speaker 11: There are people who got left behind, There are people

1171
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:08,760
Speaker 11: who came with children. They get stuck, they faint right.

1172
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:12,439
Speaker 1: It's very hard, it's very difficult.

1173
01:11:13,400 --> 01:11:16,280
Speaker 11: And I know that all of us who immigrated here

1174
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 11: are doing the same thing. We are not bad people.

1175
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:22,519
Speaker 11: We are good people. We do it for a purpose

1176
01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:28,080
Speaker 11: which is our family, right, our children. We need a

1177
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:31,439
Speaker 11: good economy to support our family, our children.

1178
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:41,800
Speaker 3: But I asked rays if there was a dream that

1179
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:42,599
Speaker 3: kept her going.

1180
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:48,080
Speaker 11: Yes, I have a dream to go there because just

1181
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:51,439
Speaker 11: like everyone else, like every person, I need to get

1182
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 11: ahead financially to provide for my children, to get ahead.

1183
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:58,840
Speaker 11: So my dream has always been to be there. You know,

1184
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:02,479
Speaker 11: I set that all for myself before, but I didn't

1185
01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:05,400
Speaker 11: think it would be like this, so difficult. And once

1186
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:08,040
Speaker 11: you're in there, well there's nothing you can do but

1187
01:12:08,200 --> 01:12:11,080
Speaker 11: get out, move forward, get out of there, because you

1188
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:13,400
Speaker 11: can't go back, you can't retreat.

1189
01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:14,800
Speaker 5: You have to get out.

1190
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:18,960
Speaker 11: So my dream is that to provide for my children.

1191
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:23,160
Speaker 11: I have two sons waiting for me, I have my

1192
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:28,320
Speaker 11: family and my dad and my brothers. So for that

1193
01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:32,400
Speaker 11: reason we set off to go there. We are still

1194
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 11: going there.

1195
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:38,960
Speaker 3: The American dream is such a nebulous concept. Often it's

1196
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:41,439
Speaker 3: used as a byword for exceptionalism and the idea that

1197
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:44,200
Speaker 3: the US offers a true meritocracy. You were, hard working

1198
01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 3: people can thrive in the marketplace of ideas that isn't true.

1199
01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:51,280
Speaker 3: But dreams don't have to be true, not they have

1200
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 3: to be that far fetched. Most people come into America, no,

1201
01:12:54,479 --> 01:12:57,160
Speaker 3: that work hard in the fields, cleaning homes. So maybe

1202
01:12:57,200 --> 01:12:59,920
Speaker 3: as a lion cook the hands and knees and back

1203
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:02,760
Speaker 3: will do the labor that allows for privileged Americans to

1204
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:05,439
Speaker 3: still believe in their version of the American dream, the

1205
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:09,080
Speaker 3: one where millionaires become billionaires. But the chance to work

1206
01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:12,519
Speaker 3: and be paid to speak, and not fear consequences, to

1207
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:14,680
Speaker 3: be able to feed your kids enough that they grow

1208
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:18,840
Speaker 3: up healthy and strong. Those are dreams too. They're dreams

1209
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:21,680
Speaker 3: that people are willing to risk their lives for, and

1210
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,240
Speaker 3: dreams that I've seen them chase up and down mountains

1211
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:26,400
Speaker 3: in the jungle and in the freezing cold and the

1212
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:29,920
Speaker 3: baking heats of the deserts and mountains of California. But

1213
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:32,280
Speaker 3: now even those who achieve their humble dreams are in

1214
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:34,559
Speaker 3: danger of losing them and tomorrow, I want to talk

1215
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:37,080
Speaker 3: about the end of the American Dream and the beginning

1216
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:39,600
Speaker 3: of an American nightmare for millions and migrants who are

1217
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 3: already here. Every time I hear the various versions that

1218
01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:45,519
Speaker 3: Woody Guthrie song, I think about the friends I made

1219
01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:47,800
Speaker 3: the jungle, who, as a song says, maybe went to

1220
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 3: heaven without any names. So before I go, I want

1221
01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 3: to share the whole Miami's American Dream one more time,

1222
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:55,600
Speaker 3: because I think it's important not to forget what the

1223
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:58,400
Speaker 3: entire force of the most powerful state in the world

1224
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:00,559
Speaker 3: has dedicated itself to destroy.

1225
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 11: Why am I meaning me, me me?

1226
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 3: It could be an a par of thousand euros.

1227
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:17,720
Speaker 11: A Caroline, Animia.

1228
01:14:17,800 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 3: Acidia, Amidia h for Rose, Miami and Primrose and the

1229
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:06,840
Speaker 3: dozens of other migrants I met in the jungle. The

1230
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:09,679
Speaker 3: goal was to get here. Some of them had friends

1231
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:12,640
Speaker 3: they wanted to stay with, but many did not. They

1232
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:15,479
Speaker 3: just wanted a chance, a chance to work and be

1233
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:17,640
Speaker 3: paid a fair wage, a chance for their kids to

1234
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 3: have a dream and a future, a chance to sleep

1235
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:23,639
Speaker 3: safely at night. Once they got across that line, over

1236
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:26,000
Speaker 3: that wall, or across that river, they wanted to make

1237
01:15:26,040 --> 01:15:28,160
Speaker 3: their case for a silent to ask for help and

1238
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:30,720
Speaker 3: someone to keep them safe, to give them an opportunity

1239
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 3: to build their lives again. But even for the very

1240
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 3: few who made it, the risks weren't over. Within hours

1241
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:40,120
Speaker 3: of taking office, Trump had begun signing executive orders that

1242
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:41,760
Speaker 3: would make life for migrants on the way to the

1243
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:46,280
Speaker 3: USA and those already here even more difficult. To the

1244
01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:48,479
Speaker 3: cheers of the crowd, he signed in order that kept

1245
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:51,360
Speaker 3: TikTok online, pardon the people who stormed the Capitol on

1246
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:54,599
Speaker 3: January sixth, twenty twenty one, and attempted to rescind birthright

1247
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:58,479
Speaker 3: citizenship from the children of migrants. He ended steviep Won

1248
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:01,320
Speaker 3: and with his sharpie of the building of mole walls

1249
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:03,760
Speaker 3: and the resulting death of more people who came here

1250
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:07,479
Speaker 3: to ask for help. Within days of Trump taking office,

1251
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:12,240
Speaker 3: federal agents from ICE, the DEA, the FBI, and other

1252
01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:15,360
Speaker 3: agencies had begun a campaign if made for social media raids.

1253
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:18,600
Speaker 3: In Colorado, they raided apartment buildings which had played a

1254
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:21,599
Speaker 3: load bearing role in right wing conspiracies about tender ragwa

1255
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:24,800
Speaker 3: months before. At universities, they grabbed young men and women

1256
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:28,360
Speaker 3: off campus for the crime for opposing genocide. People entering

1257
01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:30,720
Speaker 3: the country were stopped and had the device's searched, not

1258
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:33,320
Speaker 3: just for evidence of crime, but also for evidence of

1259
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:36,840
Speaker 3: mocking the president or the Vice president. Trump added various

1260
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:40,240
Speaker 3: organized crime groups the list of foreign terrorist organizations and

1261
01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:43,960
Speaker 3: attempted to totally ban asylum, including for the people fleeing

1262
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:47,479
Speaker 3: those very organizations. People who had waited months for an

1263
01:16:47,479 --> 01:16:50,800
Speaker 3: appointment on CBP one now had their appointment canceled. They

1264
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:53,880
Speaker 3: were left totally without hope, at risk, and with nowhere

1265
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:57,280
Speaker 3: to go for help. Trump used to border Emergency declaration

1266
01:16:57,400 --> 01:17:00,519
Speaker 3: to justify his proclamation and quickly followed up with more

1267
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:03,439
Speaker 3: military deployments, wall construction, and a huge increase in the

1268
01:17:03,479 --> 01:17:07,040
Speaker 3: funding for state surveillance. People still cross, but their numbers

1269
01:17:07,080 --> 01:17:09,679
Speaker 3: decreased if many of them were quickly deported back to Mexico.

1270
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:13,920
Speaker 3: Here's Kirsten is it law promos his lawyer explaining the

1271
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:14,920
Speaker 3: new system.

1272
01:17:15,320 --> 01:17:20,200
Speaker 14: So there are no new asylum cases. In other words,

1273
01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:25,240
Speaker 14: people who cross at the southern border are now detained,

1274
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:29,519
Speaker 14: only to be removed immediately basically or as soon as possible,

1275
01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:34,040
Speaker 14: under what's called two twelve F authority. It's under the

1276
01:17:34,240 --> 01:17:39,439
Speaker 14: Immigration and Nationality Act. Trump has used this authority, which

1277
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:43,679
Speaker 14: basically broadly says that if the President finds a certain

1278
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:47,320
Speaker 14: class of immigrants or the entry of immigrants would be

1279
01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:50,160
Speaker 14: detrimental to the interests of the United States, they may,

1280
01:17:50,240 --> 01:17:54,240
Speaker 14: by proclamation, you know, suspend all entry have said immigrants.

1281
01:17:54,640 --> 01:17:57,760
Speaker 3: So whereas people used to get credible.

1282
01:17:57,360 --> 01:18:01,120
Speaker 14: Fear interviews or were parolled into the United States to

1283
01:18:01,240 --> 01:18:04,120
Speaker 14: be allowed to fight an asylum case, none of that

1284
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:08,040
Speaker 14: is happening anymore. And people are, if anything, only screened

1285
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:12,120
Speaker 14: for what's called Convention against Torture screenings to just determine, like, hey,

1286
01:18:12,160 --> 01:18:14,880
Speaker 14: are they going to be tortured by their government or

1287
01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:17,200
Speaker 14: with the acquiescence of their government if they returned to

1288
01:18:17,240 --> 01:18:20,320
Speaker 14: their home country. But even then they are not allowed

1289
01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 14: to remain in the United States or fight any relief

1290
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:24,320
Speaker 14: in the United States. That just means that they will

1291
01:18:24,320 --> 01:18:25,960
Speaker 14: be deported to a third country.

1292
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:29,760
Speaker 3: For people inside the USA, the situation wasn't much better.

1293
01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:32,160
Speaker 3: First as a trickle and then as a torrent, we

1294
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:35,040
Speaker 3: started to see videos of masked, unidentified men jumping out

1295
01:18:35,080 --> 01:18:38,320
Speaker 3: of unmarked vehicles to grab people, many of whom were migrants,

1296
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:41,479
Speaker 3: and detain them. In most cases, these were federal agents

1297
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:44,720
Speaker 3: from ICE and other federal agencies like the FBI, the ATF,

1298
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:47,719
Speaker 3: and the DEA, whose offices were detailed to support ICE.

1299
01:18:48,439 --> 01:18:51,479
Speaker 3: An increasing number of cases, they were people imitating ICE

1300
01:18:52,280 --> 01:18:55,960
Speaker 3: for migrants, many of whom had fled totalitarian regimes where

1301
01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:59,040
Speaker 3: people were disappeared by the state, they were reminder of

1302
01:18:59,080 --> 01:19:01,679
Speaker 3: what they'd run away from, the place they had come

1303
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:03,640
Speaker 3: to be safe, started to feel like the place they

1304
01:19:03,680 --> 01:19:07,679
Speaker 3: had to leave because it wasn't safe. Primrose case, things

1305
01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:10,080
Speaker 3: were a bit different. When Kifton filed a motion to

1306
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:13,560
Speaker 3: appear remotely, she got an extremely unusual response.

1307
01:19:13,680 --> 01:19:16,479
Speaker 14: In ruling on my WebEx motion, I was emailed the

1308
01:19:16,640 --> 01:19:20,040
Speaker 14: order of the judge along with a notice that primos

1309
01:19:20,040 --> 01:19:21,320
Speaker 14: should self deport.

1310
01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:23,240
Speaker 3: So judges are.

1311
01:19:23,240 --> 01:19:27,960
Speaker 14: Sending out these notices with routine other orders in cases

1312
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:32,479
Speaker 14: where the immigrant has counsel is fighting their case.

1313
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:35,920
Speaker 3: It's obvious they're fighting their case.

1314
01:19:36,320 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 14: Yeah, So it's one of the things where you just

1315
01:19:38,600 --> 01:19:41,840
Speaker 14: feel very strongly this administration's influence.

1316
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:44,360
Speaker 3: Are they obliged to do that or is that a

1317
01:19:44,479 --> 01:19:46,200
Speaker 3: choice that the judge is made. No, not at all.

1318
01:19:46,280 --> 01:19:48,800
Speaker 14: It's it's okay, not at all, and in fact it's

1319
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:52,479
Speaker 14: completely inappropriate. The immigration bar is taking a different approach

1320
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:56,640
Speaker 14: to it. Some are filing motions to recuse, telling the judges, hey,

1321
01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 14: you need to recuse yourself. You're you're a non neutral judge.

1322
01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:00,600
Speaker 14: To send this up out in the middle of the

1323
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:03,439
Speaker 14: case is absurd. It's a due process violation. They're entitled

1324
01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:04,360
Speaker 14: to a neutral judge.

1325
01:20:05,360 --> 01:20:07,439
Speaker 3: Think just one of the many areas where things are

1326
01:20:07,479 --> 01:20:10,400
Speaker 3: not as they have been. The Trump administration has flouted

1327
01:20:10,479 --> 01:20:13,760
Speaker 3: rules and even court orders, sent migrants to hoard Salvador's

1328
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:16,960
Speaker 3: megaprisons that god a place where torture is routine and

1329
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:19,599
Speaker 3: where few people have ever left. They attempted to bring

1330
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:23,280
Speaker 3: criminal charges against migrants to justify their actions, and eventually

1331
01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:25,799
Speaker 3: ended up in a prisoner change with the Maduro regime.

1332
01:20:26,360 --> 01:20:28,960
Speaker 3: At the same time, my daughter's government began offering quote

1333
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:33,280
Speaker 3: unquote humanitarian flights to Venezuelans and Mexico, and some even

1334
01:20:33,320 --> 01:20:36,759
Speaker 3: took to navigating the Daian Gap southwards to return to Columbia,

1335
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:38,920
Speaker 3: where they thought they might have some chance at a

1336
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:43,120
Speaker 3: decent life in the USA, a country with more guns

1337
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:45,960
Speaker 3: than people. Everyone seemed to be holding their breath and

1338
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:48,920
Speaker 3: worrying that we'd seen an increase in lethal violence. But

1339
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:52,720
Speaker 3: after a few weeks, thankfully that hadn't happened. But more

1340
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:56,040
Speaker 3: and more where I stated showed up, local people also

1341
01:20:56,120 --> 01:20:59,719
Speaker 3: showed up. They called them are number of things, fascists, cowards,

1342
01:21:01,200 --> 01:21:04,439
Speaker 3: and then people began to organize, following ICE agents around

1343
01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:08,400
Speaker 3: and announcing their presence, identifying their hotels and making noise outside,

1344
01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:11,120
Speaker 3: picking up neighbors kids, and getting their groceries so people

1345
01:21:11,160 --> 01:21:13,479
Speaker 3: wouldn't need to expose themselves to the risk of arrest.

1346
01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:17,840
Speaker 3: If ICE agents were spotted, people alerted their communities. It

1347
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:20,160
Speaker 3: is across the US. People began to form networks to

1348
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:23,000
Speaker 3: take care of their neighbors. Some of this came from

1349
01:21:23,040 --> 01:21:25,960
Speaker 3: lifelong activists, but much of it did not. People even

1350
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:29,240
Speaker 3: began using apps normally used for suburban racism like nextdoor

1351
01:21:29,320 --> 01:21:32,559
Speaker 3: and ring to call out the presence of ICE. Raids

1352
01:21:32,600 --> 01:21:35,320
Speaker 3: were reposed and ICE agents were shouted out across the country,

1353
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:51,600
Speaker 3: but they still kept going. It wasn't until June that

1354
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:55,200
Speaker 3: we saw the first mass protest. Everyone wondered if we'd

1355
01:21:55,200 --> 01:21:58,360
Speaker 3: be in for another hot summer like twenty twenty. CBP

1356
01:21:58,479 --> 01:22:01,080
Speaker 3: officers had been deployed to LA to conduct a series

1357
01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:04,960
Speaker 3: of loud and once again curated for Instagram Braids. Board

1358
01:22:04,960 --> 01:22:08,240
Speaker 3: of Patrols El Centro Sector Chief patrol Agent Gregory Bavino,

1359
01:22:08,360 --> 01:22:11,439
Speaker 3: became the faith of the operation even before Trump had

1360
01:22:11,439 --> 01:22:14,160
Speaker 3: taken office. Just a day after Congress had certified the

1361
01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:17,479
Speaker 3: results of the election, Bavino had sent sixty five agents

1362
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:20,320
Speaker 3: six hours norse of the border to push the boundaries

1363
01:22:20,360 --> 01:22:23,400
Speaker 3: of what people would accept. In California's Central Valley, not

1364
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:26,799
Speaker 3: so far from Los Gatos Canyon, he led Operation Return

1365
01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:30,320
Speaker 3: to Sender, accosting Latino farm workers at convenience stores and

1366
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:33,559
Speaker 3: on the way to work. Bavino claimed the operation was targeted,

1367
01:22:33,880 --> 01:22:36,559
Speaker 3: but reporting from cal Matas showed CBP had no prior

1368
01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:41,120
Speaker 3: records for seventy seven of the seventy eight people had arrested. Bavino,

1369
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:44,080
Speaker 3: who has bestowed the title of Premiere Sector on the

1370
01:22:44,120 --> 01:22:47,080
Speaker 3: part of the border he oversees, has five agents on

1371
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:51,000
Speaker 3: a team dedicated to producing videos. He likes to praise Eisenhower,

1372
01:22:51,280 --> 01:22:55,200
Speaker 3: whose Operation WAG often flew migrants to our center before

1373
01:22:55,240 --> 01:22:58,080
Speaker 3: they were sent back to Mexico. The plane which crashed

1374
01:22:58,080 --> 01:23:01,800
Speaker 3: in Los Gato's Canyon was headed there. Bovino has a

1375
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:04,400
Speaker 3: long history of these raids, dating back to at least

1376
01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:07,040
Speaker 3: twenty ten in Las Vegas, and he is very much

1377
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:10,200
Speaker 3: the face of the new border patrol approach. While ICE

1378
01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:13,519
Speaker 3: numbers are growing, CBP still has several times more offices,

1379
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:16,120
Speaker 3: and indeed some reporting suggests that ICE offices and some

1380
01:23:16,280 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 3: offices might be replaced with CBP personnel. Border Patrol notionally

1381
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:23,040
Speaker 3: operates within one hundred miles to the border, an area

1382
01:23:23,080 --> 01:23:25,640
Speaker 3: which includes all US coastline and the entire shore of

1383
01:23:25,640 --> 01:23:28,479
Speaker 3: the Great Lakes, and even then this one hundred miles

1384
01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:31,439
Speaker 3: is an interpretation and not a hard legal blog. This

1385
01:23:31,680 --> 01:23:34,439
Speaker 3: remint covers two thirds of the population and gives them

1386
01:23:34,479 --> 01:23:37,519
Speaker 3: a widely way to infringe on the Fourth Amendment. This

1387
01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:39,960
Speaker 3: has been the case for decades since the Department of

1388
01:23:40,040 --> 01:23:42,800
Speaker 3: Home Land Security was founded after nine to eleven, but

1389
01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:45,800
Speaker 3: mass protests against CBP has been rare. We've seen it

1390
01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:48,000
Speaker 3: on occasion, the lesson you'd think for an agency with

1391
01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:50,040
Speaker 3: such a broad remit in a country that seems so

1392
01:23:50,160 --> 01:23:53,600
Speaker 3: proud of the first ten amendments to the Constitution. In

1393
01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:56,880
Speaker 3: La though people weren't having it following a series of

1394
01:23:56,960 --> 01:23:59,639
Speaker 3: violent raids, Border Patrol agents hadn't been met with protest

1395
01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:03,400
Speaker 3: across the city. They'd responded with tear gas, projectile weapons,

1396
01:24:03,439 --> 01:24:06,920
Speaker 3: and threats. They'd arrested Dennis wuerta leader of the Service

1397
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:10,559
Speaker 3: Employees United International, one of the largest unions in the country,

1398
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:13,840
Speaker 3: as well as dozens of other Angelinos. They'd shut tear

1399
01:24:13,880 --> 01:24:16,240
Speaker 3: gas out of moving vehicles and a naunched projectiles into

1400
01:24:16,240 --> 01:24:19,960
Speaker 3: the faces of reporters and bystanders alike. Seeing this, doing

1401
01:24:20,040 --> 01:24:22,400
Speaker 3: what I do. I got on a train to Los Angeles,

1402
01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:25,360
Speaker 3: but within being southern California, it took like five hours.

1403
01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:32,759
Speaker 3: Are they throwing or shooting?

1404
01:24:50,200 --> 01:24:50,680
Speaker 12: Did you get hit?

1405
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:57,080
Speaker 3: You're okay? I'm going to that tree on the right.

1406
01:24:58,320 --> 01:24:58,519
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1407
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:03,080
Speaker 3: After getting off the train in LA, and before I

1408
01:25:03,120 --> 01:25:05,519
Speaker 3: met my friend Charles McBride to work of some coverage together,

1409
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:08,679
Speaker 3: I walked around Olverda Street, grabbed a coffee, and spoke

1410
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:11,519
Speaker 3: to some of the local folks. There were tags all

1411
01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:13,920
Speaker 3: over the walls and windows of the buildings around the

1412
01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:17,240
Speaker 3: train station, but that's always been how LA has expressed itself.

1413
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:20,200
Speaker 3: All I heard from people I met there was support.

1414
01:25:21,120 --> 01:25:23,559
Speaker 3: One man expressed to me that his anxiety made protests

1415
01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:25,800
Speaker 3: very uncomfortable for him, but he was glad to see

1416
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:29,479
Speaker 3: people standing up. Obviously, crimes against property are something that

1417
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:32,519
Speaker 3: parts of Los Angeles take very seriously. It's a spiritual

1418
01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:35,960
Speaker 3: home of conspicuous consumption. But in this instance, it seemed

1419
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:38,120
Speaker 3: everyone I've met either didn't care or was so mad

1420
01:25:38,200 --> 01:25:42,639
Speaker 3: they didn't care. From mid morning to early the next day, LAPD,

1421
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:45,280
Speaker 3: who are not supposed to assist CBP but who can

1422
01:25:45,439 --> 01:25:48,880
Speaker 3: enforce state law, chased angry kids around their own city,

1423
01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:52,599
Speaker 3: its skid row and downtown LA. Tear Gas flooded the streets,

1424
01:25:52,840 --> 01:25:55,679
Speaker 3: and so did young people from across town. In between

1425
01:25:55,720 --> 01:25:57,479
Speaker 3: the tear gas and pepper bulls, I managed to talk

1426
01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:01,000
Speaker 3: to a few of them. Their stories were similar. They

1427
01:26:01,040 --> 01:26:03,639
Speaker 3: were those kids whose better futures had bought their parents here.

1428
01:26:04,280 --> 01:26:06,880
Speaker 3: They were citizens raised in the USA to believe in

1429
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:09,640
Speaker 3: the right to free speech and assembly, something they were

1430
01:26:09,680 --> 01:26:11,439
Speaker 3: now using to make their voices heard.

1431
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:17,559
Speaker 16: I mean, my family, they're you know, susceptible to all

1432
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:20,160
Speaker 16: the ice rays and stuff like that, and you know,

1433
01:26:20,360 --> 01:26:22,479
Speaker 16: being a citizen here, I feel like it's my duty

1434
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:25,439
Speaker 16: to come out here and you know, speak out and

1435
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:26,400
Speaker 16: know for those who can.

1436
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:30,560
Speaker 3: It made me think of Primrose and Kimberly and the

1437
01:26:30,640 --> 01:26:33,800
Speaker 3: future they might both have I sincerely hope that one

1438
01:26:33,880 --> 01:26:36,000
Speaker 3: day at Kimberly and every other kid I met the

1439
01:26:36,080 --> 01:26:38,880
Speaker 3: jungle would feel brave enough to be out here and

1440
01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:41,160
Speaker 3: just by everything, be strong enough to stand up against

1441
01:26:41,160 --> 01:26:44,960
Speaker 3: state violence. Unbeknown to me, Primrose and Kim weren't that

1442
01:26:45,040 --> 01:26:47,320
Speaker 3: far away. They had a check in with ICE at

1443
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:49,920
Speaker 3: the DTLA federal building that day, and as they rode

1444
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:52,760
Speaker 3: by in a bus past the protesting crowds, Kim said

1445
01:26:52,800 --> 01:26:55,639
Speaker 3: to her mom, look, it's uncle James. Her mom, of course,

1446
01:26:55,680 --> 01:26:57,760
Speaker 3: told her it couldn't have been, but she was right.

1447
01:26:57,880 --> 01:27:01,200
Speaker 3: It was. After nine months only speaking on the phone,

1448
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:04,080
Speaker 3: can believe somehow recognize me. It might be being wrapped

1449
01:27:04,120 --> 01:27:18,040
Speaker 3: up in a helmet and a plate carrier. When they

1450
01:27:18,120 --> 01:27:20,519
Speaker 3: first arrived, they went to stay with someone they knew

1451
01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:22,760
Speaker 3: in Texas. I plan to go and visit them there

1452
01:27:22,760 --> 01:27:25,679
Speaker 3: and accompany them to their court hearing. At this point,

1453
01:27:25,880 --> 01:27:27,920
Speaker 3: I say, agents had already begun snatching people in the

1454
01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:30,759
Speaker 3: corridors of the courthouses after the government withdrew their cases

1455
01:27:31,120 --> 01:27:34,840
Speaker 3: and placed them in expedited removal proceedings, which meant mandatory detention.

1456
01:27:35,560 --> 01:27:37,040
Speaker 3: There's not much any of us can do about this,

1457
01:27:37,479 --> 01:27:39,680
Speaker 3: but I didn't want them to be alone. Then I

1458
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:42,800
Speaker 3: got COVID and couldn't go his curse in explaining how

1459
01:27:42,840 --> 01:27:44,000
Speaker 3: this process works.

1460
01:27:44,360 --> 01:27:47,240
Speaker 14: So INA Section two thirty five applies to people who

1461
01:27:47,680 --> 01:27:50,519
Speaker 14: entered within less than two years, Like you said, they

1462
01:27:50,720 --> 01:27:54,240
Speaker 14: can be then subject to what's called expedited removal. That

1463
01:27:54,400 --> 01:27:56,960
Speaker 14: means that they have to take a credible fear interview

1464
01:27:57,040 --> 01:27:59,760
Speaker 14: and be detained, and that they only get to fight

1465
01:27:59,800 --> 01:28:02,280
Speaker 14: a case if they pass their credible fear interview. They

1466
01:28:02,400 --> 01:28:05,120
Speaker 14: do not qualify for an immigration judge bond, so they

1467
01:28:05,200 --> 01:28:06,920
Speaker 14: only get out if ICE lets them out, which of

1468
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:11,400
Speaker 14: course Ice is letting nobody out. So the administration wants

1469
01:28:11,439 --> 01:28:13,960
Speaker 14: to have people detained under this authority, this two thirty

1470
01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:18,040
Speaker 14: five authority, as much as possible, to have them have

1471
01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:21,360
Speaker 14: to fight their case detained and either lose the will

1472
01:28:21,439 --> 01:28:24,960
Speaker 14: to do so and or not be able to afford

1473
01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:27,599
Speaker 14: an attorney, because detained cases move along a lot quicker

1474
01:28:28,439 --> 01:28:31,320
Speaker 14: and are very costly as well for that reason. So

1475
01:28:32,040 --> 01:28:35,679
Speaker 14: what they're doing is anybody who was here two years

1476
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:37,920
Speaker 14: or less but was parolled in so they're in the

1477
01:28:37,960 --> 01:28:40,760
Speaker 14: regular immigration court proceedings. They got out there under two

1478
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:44,400
Speaker 14: forty proceedings that's called so DHS attorneys in court are

1479
01:28:44,520 --> 01:28:47,560
Speaker 14: terminating those proceedings. They're asking the judge to terminate the

1480
01:28:47,600 --> 01:28:50,000
Speaker 14: two forty proceedings, so then that case is closed and

1481
01:28:50,040 --> 01:28:53,040
Speaker 14: then they immediately restart a case under section two thirty five.

1482
01:28:54,160 --> 01:28:57,599
Speaker 3: The hearing went relatively smoothly. Their lawyer, who is now

1483
01:28:57,640 --> 01:29:00,800
Speaker 3: working for whatever Primrose could fundraise able to help them

1484
01:29:00,840 --> 01:29:04,719
Speaker 3: make their case. They left with another heroic schedules. Soon after,

1485
01:29:05,120 --> 01:29:06,960
Speaker 3: they decided to move to La to stay with another

1486
01:29:07,040 --> 01:29:09,840
Speaker 3: friend after the housing situation in Texas fell through. They

1487
01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:11,559
Speaker 3: were living in East LA when they had their next

1488
01:29:11,640 --> 01:29:12,240
Speaker 3: ice checking.

1489
01:29:13,479 --> 01:29:16,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was living an appointment and you said they

1490
01:29:16,320 --> 01:29:18,760
Speaker 4: went back to get some documents and they made you

1491
01:29:18,840 --> 01:29:22,479
Speaker 4: wake out. Yeah, yeah, I went there, I think around

1492
01:29:22,720 --> 01:29:28,640
Speaker 4: af eight two four pm. At first they came and

1493
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:31,320
Speaker 4: give me my papers. They said, go to chat with

1494
01:29:31,760 --> 01:29:34,800
Speaker 4: which is close to where you stay. Then too came

1495
01:29:34,840 --> 01:29:40,000
Speaker 4: here in La downtown. So when I walk away, I

1496
01:29:40,160 --> 01:29:42,320
Speaker 4: realized there was no other documents.

1497
01:29:43,120 --> 01:29:43,760
Speaker 5: Then I woke.

1498
01:29:44,840 --> 01:29:45,360
Speaker 7: I go big.

1499
01:29:45,400 --> 01:29:48,360
Speaker 4: I said to Kim, I let's go big inside. Then

1500
01:29:48,400 --> 01:29:51,880
Speaker 4: I go to the reception. Then I asked the lady

1501
01:29:51,880 --> 01:29:54,479
Speaker 4: and she was the ruder it first. Then She took

1502
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:56,840
Speaker 4: my documents, then said, oh okay, let me go and

1503
01:29:56,960 --> 01:30:00,840
Speaker 4: find it. Three hours, four hours, not big. Then she

1504
01:30:00,920 --> 01:30:05,040
Speaker 4: came in and called me, I think four pm. Then

1505
01:30:05,120 --> 01:30:07,560
Speaker 4: the ice officer is just telling me I'm going to Detainia.

1506
01:30:09,520 --> 01:30:12,800
Speaker 4: I said, oh why, I said, oh, we are going

1507
01:30:12,880 --> 01:30:13,800
Speaker 4: to explain more.

1508
01:30:15,320 --> 01:30:17,479
Speaker 5: We are going, I said, oh, okay.

1509
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:21,200
Speaker 3: Like thousands of other migrants who are trying to do

1510
01:30:21,320 --> 01:30:24,840
Speaker 3: as they're asked, Primros has detained her check in along

1511
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:27,479
Speaker 3: with Kim. Previously, she'd been given ice check ins in

1512
01:30:27,600 --> 01:30:30,920
Speaker 3: Riverside despite living in East LA. I'd helped her navigate

1513
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:32,640
Speaker 3: the four and a half hour bus route to get

1514
01:30:32,680 --> 01:30:35,719
Speaker 3: there on time. Wondered how on earth, someone who doesn't

1515
01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:37,639
Speaker 3: have a friend here, or who doesn't speak English, she's

1516
01:30:37,640 --> 01:30:40,720
Speaker 3: expected to do this. She went out of her way

1517
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:42,760
Speaker 3: to make sure she was there and she had her

1518
01:30:42,840 --> 01:30:45,760
Speaker 3: documents in order. Despite all of this, but she and

1519
01:30:45,880 --> 01:30:49,160
Speaker 3: Kim believe were detained anyway, It's not hard for me

1520
01:30:49,240 --> 01:30:50,680
Speaker 3: to see why people in La were mad.

1521
01:30:51,760 --> 01:30:56,360
Speaker 4: Then they took me to Santana. We were just sitting.

1522
01:30:56,640 --> 01:30:57,440
Speaker 12: Not even.

1523
01:30:58,760 --> 01:31:00,960
Speaker 5: One Ice officer comes to me nothing.

1524
01:31:01,080 --> 01:31:03,840
Speaker 4: I was just sitting And the other thing, they just

1525
01:31:04,040 --> 01:31:06,479
Speaker 4: took my phone same time they switched it off. Then

1526
01:31:06,520 --> 01:31:09,880
Speaker 4: I said, can I tell even one of my friends,

1527
01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:14,280
Speaker 4: maybe they they are worried, and now said no, no,

1528
01:31:14,400 --> 01:31:16,200
Speaker 4: we are going to give you a phone. Later on

1529
01:31:16,360 --> 01:31:19,040
Speaker 4: I said, okay, So in Sanna they took us in

1530
01:31:19,080 --> 01:31:23,040
Speaker 4: a hotel to sleep. Then the following day they took

1531
01:31:23,080 --> 01:31:28,559
Speaker 4: big us to Sundernard Detention Center, not even one officer.

1532
01:31:28,680 --> 01:31:31,599
Speaker 4: I was being asking the securities. They said, we don't

1533
01:31:31,640 --> 01:31:37,439
Speaker 4: even know. We spent the whole day sitting doing nothing.

1534
01:31:37,479 --> 01:31:40,120
Speaker 4: We were just sitting. Then they took us, I think

1535
01:31:40,200 --> 01:31:45,519
Speaker 4: around the six pm pack to Los Angeles. Then when

1536
01:31:46,320 --> 01:31:49,439
Speaker 4: that's why I saw the ICE officer. Then she explained

1537
01:31:49,479 --> 01:31:51,920
Speaker 4: to me we are going to detain. You are going

1538
01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:56,160
Speaker 4: to put you somewhere because the rules are changing every day.

1539
01:31:56,920 --> 01:32:00,360
Speaker 5: I even asked you, did I do something well? She

1540
01:32:00,439 --> 01:32:00,760
Speaker 5: said no.

1541
01:32:03,080 --> 01:32:05,479
Speaker 3: I've heard this from a lot of migrants. The ICE

1542
01:32:05,520 --> 01:32:08,519
Speaker 3: agents managing their non detained docket, as opposed to those

1543
01:32:08,920 --> 01:32:12,400
Speaker 3: enforcement removal or detention, seemed to be struggling to keep

1544
01:32:12,479 --> 01:32:15,000
Speaker 3: up with the pace of the changes in rules. Many

1545
01:32:15,000 --> 01:32:17,439
Speaker 3: of the migrants I'd heard from had decent relationships with

1546
01:32:17,479 --> 01:32:19,719
Speaker 3: the officers who do their check ins and they can't

1547
01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:22,439
Speaker 3: understand why other officers working for the same organization would

1548
01:32:22,479 --> 01:32:25,200
Speaker 3: detain them even though they're doing exactly what they're asked

1549
01:32:25,280 --> 01:32:28,920
Speaker 3: to do. They are doing things quote unquote the right way,

1550
01:32:29,479 --> 01:32:32,519
Speaker 3: but that's not enough for an agency desperately driven by

1551
01:32:32,640 --> 01:32:35,599
Speaker 3: quotas and the desire to purgenation of people who had

1552
01:32:35,680 --> 01:32:39,080
Speaker 3: risked their lives to become Americans. Let's hear how this

1553
01:32:39,200 --> 01:32:40,560
Speaker 3: felt for Primrose.

1554
01:32:41,920 --> 01:32:45,000
Speaker 5: Then, said Duyev lawyer. I said yes.

1555
01:32:45,560 --> 01:32:47,880
Speaker 4: Then she said okay, it's fine, so she'd give me

1556
01:32:47,960 --> 01:32:50,800
Speaker 4: another documentary to sign. Then I signed, like they are

1557
01:32:50,880 --> 01:32:54,559
Speaker 4: going to detain me. Then I ask you for how

1558
01:32:54,680 --> 01:32:57,000
Speaker 4: long they are I don't think you guys will you

1559
01:32:57,040 --> 01:32:59,200
Speaker 4: are going and going to stay more than fourteen days?

1560
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:03,800
Speaker 4: Made less than fourteen days. I said, okay. Then I

1561
01:33:04,000 --> 01:33:06,960
Speaker 4: asked your phone to call a lawyer. She gave me

1562
01:33:07,080 --> 01:33:11,080
Speaker 4: a phone. Then I conduct the lawyer. The lawyer the

1563
01:33:11,160 --> 01:33:14,680
Speaker 4: phone was off. Then I tried to conduct one of

1564
01:33:14,800 --> 01:33:18,600
Speaker 4: my friends. Then the aunts, I said, we wanted to

1565
01:33:18,680 --> 01:33:21,200
Speaker 4: go to the police to ask you because we were

1566
01:33:21,240 --> 01:33:22,800
Speaker 4: worried because your phone was.

1567
01:33:22,960 --> 01:33:23,800
Speaker 7: Off, and.

1568
01:33:25,360 --> 01:33:27,840
Speaker 4: The ice officer, the ice officer the bother I was

1569
01:33:27,880 --> 01:33:31,680
Speaker 4: gaving a GPS. So my GPS was off for the

1570
01:33:31,760 --> 01:33:35,760
Speaker 4: way phoning. Uh the person way up to me in

1571
01:33:35,920 --> 01:33:40,800
Speaker 4: Texas looking for me. Then he also replaced, I'm also

1572
01:33:40,880 --> 01:33:42,640
Speaker 4: looking for you. I don't even know where she is.

1573
01:33:43,479 --> 01:33:43,679
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1574
01:33:44,560 --> 01:33:48,439
Speaker 4: So people they were worried, maybe I will someone kidnap you.

1575
01:33:48,760 --> 01:33:49,760
Speaker 4: Something happened to me.

1576
01:33:50,040 --> 01:33:55,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so you and another ice officer is also

1577
01:33:55,360 --> 01:33:55,960
Speaker 3: looking for you.

1578
01:33:56,120 --> 01:33:58,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, the other officer, we're looking for me. They were

1579
01:33:58,320 --> 01:34:03,080
Speaker 4: even sending messages on their up yeah, yeah, asking where

1580
01:34:03,120 --> 01:34:06,320
Speaker 4: are you charge your GPS? And the other ice officer

1581
01:34:06,479 --> 01:34:10,439
Speaker 4: was detaining me. Then I even explained to her. She said,

1582
01:34:10,479 --> 01:34:12,759
Speaker 4: oh no, no, it's okay. Then she took the scissor.

1583
01:34:12,840 --> 01:34:13,839
Speaker 4: Then she cut the GPS.

1584
01:34:15,240 --> 01:34:15,960
Speaker 5: She cut it off.

1585
01:34:16,800 --> 01:34:19,960
Speaker 4: They know we Spain. I think one hour it was

1586
01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:26,760
Speaker 4: around saving. Then they said okay, or there someone is

1587
01:34:26,880 --> 01:34:30,840
Speaker 4: coming to take you and your daughter, So to take

1588
01:34:30,920 --> 01:34:34,200
Speaker 4: you somewhere which is safe with your child. I ask

1589
01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:37,880
Speaker 4: a way those people they said, we don't know, we

1590
01:34:38,000 --> 01:34:44,120
Speaker 4: don't know. Then I said, oh okay. Then they searched me.

1591
01:34:45,040 --> 01:34:46,880
Speaker 4: They said, do you want to take your big They

1592
01:34:46,880 --> 01:34:49,160
Speaker 4: said no, no, it's fine. I can ask if someone

1593
01:34:49,160 --> 01:34:50,920
Speaker 4: because I know I was saving, I'll was key for

1594
01:34:51,120 --> 01:34:51,719
Speaker 4: the apartment.

1595
01:34:53,000 --> 01:34:56,040
Speaker 3: Primrose, like many people seeking asylum, had to wear a

1596
01:34:56,120 --> 01:34:59,679
Speaker 3: GPS and tag part of ices Alternatives to Detention program.

1597
01:35:00,640 --> 01:35:03,519
Speaker 3: There are various parts of the program, including facial recognition

1598
01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:06,760
Speaker 3: check ins via a smartphone app, home visits, and the

1599
01:35:06,880 --> 01:35:11,000
Speaker 3: Intensive Supervision Parents program, which is administered by Behavioral Interventions

1600
01:35:11,040 --> 01:35:15,320
Speaker 3: A Geogroupsubsidiary ICE AP as it's known, includes an app

1601
01:35:15,360 --> 01:35:17,439
Speaker 3: through which people can check it, as well as the

1602
01:35:17,520 --> 01:35:20,880
Speaker 3: GPS monitors and smart watches which can monitor GPS and

1603
01:35:21,040 --> 01:35:25,240
Speaker 3: do facial recognition. Very obviously, they're not being used in

1604
01:35:25,280 --> 01:35:27,839
Speaker 3: a systematic way, as one branch of ICE was detaining

1605
01:35:27,880 --> 01:35:30,960
Speaker 3: Primrose while another was using a GPS tag to try

1606
01:35:30,960 --> 01:35:34,160
Speaker 3: and find her. All of the GPS devices used to

1607
01:35:34,200 --> 01:35:38,439
Speaker 3: altern Things to Detention represent massive surveillance overreach, an invasion

1608
01:35:38,479 --> 01:35:41,240
Speaker 3: of privacy, and a huge government dragnet of data they

1609
01:35:41,280 --> 01:35:43,240
Speaker 3: can use to track down migrants and the people they're with.

1610
01:35:44,120 --> 01:35:48,040
Speaker 3: Despite this, they're also better than detention, which is where

1611
01:35:48,080 --> 01:35:50,240
Speaker 3: Primros ended up, but not directly.

1612
01:35:51,160 --> 01:35:54,000
Speaker 4: Maybe they are going to depot to me. I can't

1613
01:35:54,080 --> 01:35:58,160
Speaker 4: go with the keys. Then they took my big so

1614
01:35:58,320 --> 01:36:02,160
Speaker 4: I'll gry. I'm going to put somewhere after one hour,

1615
01:36:02,280 --> 01:36:07,560
Speaker 4: they took us to Lax Airport. They put us in

1616
01:36:07,600 --> 01:36:14,160
Speaker 4: a hotel. It was around twelve year twelve feear that time. Indeed,

1617
01:36:14,200 --> 01:36:16,120
Speaker 4: they said, okay, so when you can nave a shower,

1618
01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:19,320
Speaker 4: then you can nave a nap. So me I was

1619
01:36:19,560 --> 01:36:20,759
Speaker 4: in the shower in the kimber.

1620
01:36:20,880 --> 01:36:21,160
Speaker 5: She was.

1621
01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:27,880
Speaker 4: Already on the bed sleeping. Then the lady came in said,

1622
01:36:28,320 --> 01:36:31,680
Speaker 4: make fast, we are going to We want to go

1623
01:36:31,840 --> 01:36:36,519
Speaker 4: back to pick another person where we came from. Ah,

1624
01:36:36,720 --> 01:36:38,120
Speaker 4: then I wake, I awake him.

1625
01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:40,280
Speaker 5: She was crying. She was like, I want to.

1626
01:36:40,360 --> 01:36:43,640
Speaker 4: Sleep because she was leaving headache. Then they said no, no, no,

1627
01:36:43,880 --> 01:36:46,800
Speaker 4: it's okay, let's go, you're going to sleep where we

1628
01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:49,439
Speaker 4: are going. We spent the one night.

1629
01:36:50,880 --> 01:36:51,479
Speaker 5: Up and down.

1630
01:36:52,200 --> 01:36:55,840
Speaker 4: We came back again to La Downtown to pick another

1631
01:36:55,960 --> 01:36:58,599
Speaker 4: guy with his side with his son. Then they took

1632
01:36:58,680 --> 01:37:01,880
Speaker 4: us to San Diego Airport. I think we arrived there.

1633
01:37:01,880 --> 01:37:07,760
Speaker 4: I think it's five am to take the flight to

1634
01:37:08,840 --> 01:37:16,320
Speaker 4: San Antonio takes us. Then after that and then the

1635
01:37:16,439 --> 01:37:18,800
Speaker 4: other lead she was rude. The other one she was nice,

1636
01:37:18,840 --> 01:37:20,680
Speaker 4: she was fine. The other one, if you ask her,

1637
01:37:20,720 --> 01:37:24,000
Speaker 4: she was like, she was rude. Then I just keep quiet.

1638
01:37:25,840 --> 01:37:30,400
Speaker 4: Then I think at the airport, we spent three hours sitting.

1639
01:37:30,439 --> 01:37:36,439
Speaker 4: Then I was flight at eight am to San Antonio. Yeah,

1640
01:37:36,520 --> 01:37:43,160
Speaker 4: they took us to delay immigration. They welcome us, nice everything. Yeah,

1641
01:37:43,640 --> 01:37:48,280
Speaker 4: then they put us inside. But for me, I was

1642
01:37:49,400 --> 01:37:54,719
Speaker 4: I was crying to be honesty. Yeah, I was even crying,

1643
01:37:55,280 --> 01:37:59,920
Speaker 4: like you know, the only pace and make me strong.

1644
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:04,479
Speaker 4: And it's came and it's a waste for here. Since

1645
01:38:05,000 --> 01:38:10,840
Speaker 4: our last year, since last year, your life is something else.

1646
01:38:10,920 --> 01:38:13,599
Speaker 4: I'm just moving from one place to another, moving from

1647
01:38:13,640 --> 01:38:18,080
Speaker 4: one place to another. You know, she's a strong girl,

1648
01:38:18,320 --> 01:38:23,639
Speaker 4: but sometimes you can see when you see it's sitting down, startying, crying.

1649
01:38:23,880 --> 01:38:27,559
Speaker 5: She just remind you something. Yeah.

1650
01:38:30,439 --> 01:38:31,160
Speaker 9: So yeah.

1651
01:38:33,640 --> 01:38:37,200
Speaker 3: The Florida Settlement governed detention of children by immigration authorities.

1652
01:38:37,720 --> 01:38:39,800
Speaker 3: It limits the time they can be held to twenty days,

1653
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:43,960
Speaker 3: and established minimum standards for their detention and treatment. It

1654
01:38:44,080 --> 01:38:47,080
Speaker 3: was a lawsuit based on this Florida Settlement that eventually

1655
01:38:47,240 --> 01:38:50,640
Speaker 3: ended the Biden era policy of outdoor attention. The settlement

1656
01:38:51,120 --> 01:38:53,880
Speaker 3: is widely flouted, but it was the best hope. Promos

1657
01:38:53,920 --> 01:38:58,559
Speaker 3: and Kimberly had Kirstin their lawyer we heard from earlier,

1658
01:38:58,840 --> 01:39:02,080
Speaker 3: worked tirelessly to the man baby treated according to their rights.

1659
01:39:03,240 --> 01:39:05,000
Speaker 3: And how was it? You caught me a few times

1660
01:39:05,040 --> 01:39:09,599
Speaker 3: in Dali, right, like how Kim wasn't having a good.

1661
01:39:09,520 --> 01:39:12,200
Speaker 5: Time first week?

1662
01:39:12,560 --> 01:39:15,720
Speaker 4: It was hard even for both of us. Yeah, yeah,

1663
01:39:16,800 --> 01:39:19,960
Speaker 4: even the food me, I wasn't even it. It was

1664
01:39:20,120 --> 01:39:23,479
Speaker 4: very hard for both of us. But you know, kids,

1665
01:39:24,280 --> 01:39:25,600
Speaker 4: she was like used to to.

1666
01:39:26,840 --> 01:39:29,880
Speaker 3: Primos called me a few times from detention. I pick

1667
01:39:29,960 --> 01:39:32,000
Speaker 3: up the phone to a robot voice and the number

1668
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:34,840
Speaker 3: would identify itself on my phone as Federal detention or

1669
01:39:34,880 --> 01:39:38,240
Speaker 3: something like that. First, obviously I was afraid, but I

1670
01:39:38,360 --> 01:39:40,599
Speaker 3: had an idea of what it could be. Yet another

1671
01:39:40,640 --> 01:39:43,320
Speaker 3: connection that began with a little piece of waterproof paper

1672
01:39:43,400 --> 01:39:46,679
Speaker 3: in the jungle and was now nine months later, leading

1673
01:39:46,720 --> 01:39:49,040
Speaker 3: to a phone call from a prison for families in Texas.

1674
01:39:49,880 --> 01:39:51,280
Speaker 3: I'd pick up the phone and then I'd have to

1675
01:39:51,360 --> 01:39:54,120
Speaker 3: press one or two to accept the call. I always

1676
01:39:54,120 --> 01:39:56,479
Speaker 3: wondered what I was about to hear. I could tell

1677
01:39:56,560 --> 01:39:58,200
Speaker 3: she was trying to put on a brave face, but

1678
01:39:58,320 --> 01:40:01,800
Speaker 3: she sounded so small it was difficult, really hard to hear.

1679
01:40:02,800 --> 01:40:05,000
Speaker 3: She said Kim wasn't eating a food, which I've often

1680
01:40:05,080 --> 01:40:07,639
Speaker 3: heard is terrible. I spent hours trying to find out

1681
01:40:07,640 --> 01:40:09,840
Speaker 3: how to put money on their commentsary account so she

1682
01:40:09,880 --> 01:40:12,800
Speaker 3: could get something a little better casting for on and

1683
01:40:12,920 --> 01:40:15,280
Speaker 3: on to try and get them released. I remember at

1684
01:40:15,320 --> 01:40:18,000
Speaker 3: one point hearing from Primrose locked up with her daughter

1685
01:40:18,080 --> 01:40:20,360
Speaker 3: for the crime of asking this country for help on

1686
01:40:20,479 --> 01:40:23,280
Speaker 3: the fourth of July. It would be too cliche if

1687
01:40:23,280 --> 01:40:26,080
Speaker 3: I made that up. But nothing this year really seems believable,

1688
01:40:27,080 --> 01:40:30,160
Speaker 3: even a nice attention, which is a miserable place for anyone.

1689
01:40:30,920 --> 01:40:33,439
Speaker 3: Primrose and Kim had an especially hard time as most

1690
01:40:33,439 --> 01:40:35,439
Speaker 3: of the migrants they were detained with spoke Spanish.

1691
01:40:36,760 --> 01:40:37,200
Speaker 5: And the way.

1692
01:40:37,400 --> 01:40:42,160
Speaker 4: The other thing is like those people they were, especially

1693
01:40:42,200 --> 01:40:44,320
Speaker 4: in their room, they put me, all of them, they

1694
01:40:44,360 --> 01:40:48,439
Speaker 4: were Spanish, and me, I do anything understand the Spanish.

1695
01:40:48,439 --> 01:40:52,719
Speaker 4: I even asking the ice officer, can you please maybe

1696
01:40:52,760 --> 01:40:56,639
Speaker 4: because there's another lady also two ladies I think Africans.

1697
01:40:56,680 --> 01:40:59,920
Speaker 4: We were only four families, so we even ask them

1698
01:41:00,120 --> 01:41:02,640
Speaker 4: can you put us in one room so that we

1699
01:41:02,720 --> 01:41:06,400
Speaker 4: can understand each other, even especially for the TV. You know,

1700
01:41:06,600 --> 01:41:15,759
Speaker 4: kids their issues. So sometimes I even had a report

1701
01:41:15,840 --> 01:41:18,599
Speaker 4: to one of the lady. She was very rude to us.

1702
01:41:19,840 --> 01:41:23,920
Speaker 4: She came and speak something so me and you came

1703
01:41:24,240 --> 01:41:27,200
Speaker 4: we don't even understand like what she said. So I

1704
01:41:27,360 --> 01:41:30,519
Speaker 4: just saw people they're doing something. Then letter she was like, yay,

1705
01:41:30,720 --> 01:41:34,120
Speaker 4: I came here and I said this. Yeah, when you

1706
01:41:34,240 --> 01:41:37,240
Speaker 4: came here, you just speak Spanish. You didn't even explain

1707
01:41:37,320 --> 01:41:41,280
Speaker 4: with English, and of which may I don't understand English.

1708
01:41:41,800 --> 01:41:46,479
Speaker 4: So she just write a report to a boss. So

1709
01:41:46,640 --> 01:41:49,439
Speaker 4: a boss came and called me. Then I explained to you.

1710
01:41:50,360 --> 01:41:53,960
Speaker 4: Then she was like, oh okay. Then they called Yeah.

1711
01:41:55,080 --> 01:41:57,920
Speaker 4: She wanted to say no, no, no, I even explained

1712
01:41:57,960 --> 01:42:01,800
Speaker 4: to English. Then there's another woman inside my room. Then

1713
01:42:02,200 --> 01:42:04,640
Speaker 4: she spoke with the Spanish. I didn't even hear, but

1714
01:42:04,800 --> 01:42:06,679
Speaker 4: she was telling the officer no, no, no, this woman

1715
01:42:06,760 --> 01:42:09,799
Speaker 4: she's lying. She just came and speaks spanishye, and not English.

1716
01:42:10,479 --> 01:42:12,920
Speaker 4: So these people they were just sleeping. They didn't even

1717
01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:17,240
Speaker 4: know what to do because she just only spoke Spanish only.

1718
01:42:18,760 --> 01:42:20,960
Speaker 3: I've heard this from lots of migrants. They end up

1719
01:42:20,960 --> 01:42:23,640
Speaker 3: serving as translators for each other because the agency that

1720
01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:28,000
Speaker 3: is founded better than most countries' militaries seemingly won't provide them. Often,

1721
01:42:28,000 --> 01:42:30,599
Speaker 3: people who speak indigenous languages have to find a translator

1722
01:42:30,640 --> 01:42:33,080
Speaker 3: into Spanish or Russian or whatever other language. They have

1723
01:42:33,160 --> 01:42:36,840
Speaker 3: a colonial relationship with Other times there's just nobody to

1724
01:42:36,920 --> 01:42:51,240
Speaker 3: help them, and they're even more alone than afraid. Luckily,

1725
01:42:51,439 --> 01:42:54,880
Speaker 3: Primrose wasn't alone. She had came with her and as

1726
01:42:54,920 --> 01:42:57,519
Speaker 3: they always do, they looked out for each other. These

1727
01:42:57,560 --> 01:43:00,439
Speaker 3: aren't things the child should have to do. Certainly childish

1728
01:43:00,439 --> 01:43:02,840
Speaker 3: young at Kimberly, but in the end it was Kimberly

1729
01:43:02,880 --> 01:43:04,439
Speaker 3: who could help work out what was going on.

1730
01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:09,800
Speaker 4: Then the ice officer I started crying, like then they

1731
01:43:09,880 --> 01:43:12,680
Speaker 4: took me to psychologist and then they said no, no,

1732
01:43:12,800 --> 01:43:17,200
Speaker 4: it's okay. I think I even spent three days that side.

1733
01:43:17,280 --> 01:43:19,280
Speaker 4: They removed me in their room, then they put me back.

1734
01:43:21,400 --> 01:43:27,160
Speaker 4: So Kimbleage was leaning under standing Spanish. So sometimes you

1735
01:43:27,360 --> 01:43:30,720
Speaker 4: see olping me or Mammy they said this, and that,

1736
01:43:30,840 --> 01:43:32,720
Speaker 4: they said this, and that. I even write it not

1737
01:43:33,720 --> 01:43:36,960
Speaker 4: to complain, like when these people came, then we have

1738
01:43:37,040 --> 01:43:40,200
Speaker 4: to accommodate all of us, because it's not like, oh,

1739
01:43:40,320 --> 01:43:44,280
Speaker 4: we are all Spanish and we don't understand Spanish.

1740
01:43:45,360 --> 01:43:48,760
Speaker 3: And then it's being overcrowded and underfed. Migrants and ice

1741
01:43:48,840 --> 01:43:52,479
Speaker 3: facilities were often incredibly bored. I've heard of some of

1742
01:43:52,520 --> 01:43:55,000
Speaker 3: them trying to teach yoga or share stories, but for

1743
01:43:55,080 --> 01:43:57,040
Speaker 3: the most part, they're so afraid and isolated that they

1744
01:43:57,040 --> 01:43:59,400
Speaker 3: are forced to sit with their anxieties day after day.

1745
01:44:00,000 --> 01:44:02,280
Speaker 3: I can't imagine what this is like for parents. They

1746
01:44:02,320 --> 01:44:04,160
Speaker 3: have to try and maintain their own mental health and

1747
01:44:04,280 --> 01:44:05,320
Speaker 3: take care of their children.

1748
01:44:05,960 --> 01:44:09,320
Speaker 5: But to be honest, we were just sitting. So time goes.

1749
01:44:09,360 --> 01:44:14,880
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, because I remember one day we went to place.

1750
01:44:16,240 --> 01:44:18,559
Speaker 4: We went to the gym to play I think Soca

1751
01:44:18,680 --> 01:44:23,760
Speaker 4: with game. I just fell down. I just felt down.

1752
01:44:23,920 --> 01:44:26,599
Speaker 4: They took me to hospa to I think I spent

1753
01:44:27,720 --> 01:44:29,519
Speaker 4: I think three hours then I wake up.

1754
01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:31,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1755
01:44:32,960 --> 01:44:38,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I think it's depression. So they put me

1756
01:44:39,200 --> 01:44:44,840
Speaker 4: in depression pills to get it out. Yeah, because my

1757
01:44:45,000 --> 01:44:52,960
Speaker 4: bibi was high every time and ever time different time. Yeah.

1758
01:44:53,360 --> 01:44:57,840
Speaker 5: But I asked my ice officer about my case.

1759
01:44:58,880 --> 01:45:02,120
Speaker 4: Then she just replied, I'm just waiting for us to

1760
01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:04,679
Speaker 4: close your case and we can start for asylum.

1761
01:45:05,360 --> 01:45:07,559
Speaker 5: So I was just sitting doing nothing.

1762
01:45:09,520 --> 01:45:12,439
Speaker 3: Despite what the detention was doing to her, Premiers remain

1763
01:45:12,520 --> 01:45:16,840
Speaker 3: determined to keep fighting her case. Every Thursday, an ice

1764
01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:18,880
Speaker 3: officer would come by and she would be able to

1765
01:45:18,920 --> 01:45:21,360
Speaker 3: ask about her case. She'd been looking forward to the

1766
01:45:21,439 --> 01:45:22,880
Speaker 3: only point in her week when she might get some

1767
01:45:22,960 --> 01:45:25,560
Speaker 3: good news or at least some news about what was

1768
01:45:25,600 --> 01:45:29,240
Speaker 3: happening to her. Why, Sally, that's not how it went.

1769
01:45:30,280 --> 01:45:31,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, there was ice.

1770
01:45:31,240 --> 01:45:35,120
Speaker 4: Officer was very loud, to be honest, everyone just walk

1771
01:45:35,200 --> 01:45:40,559
Speaker 4: away without and the people they were crying, complaining. Then

1772
01:45:40,680 --> 01:45:44,080
Speaker 4: it was like I went to him, straight to him.

1773
01:45:44,120 --> 01:45:46,800
Speaker 4: I wanted to ask him a question. He said, Hey,

1774
01:45:47,000 --> 01:45:50,840
Speaker 4: I don't have time. The only thing I can even

1775
01:45:52,040 --> 01:45:57,639
Speaker 4: tell you, guys, if you're tired of staying here, because

1776
01:45:57,680 --> 01:46:00,719
Speaker 4: they were putting papers for self deportation in our rooms,

1777
01:46:00,840 --> 01:46:03,920
Speaker 4: like if you want to deport it anytime, you can

1778
01:46:04,040 --> 01:46:07,479
Speaker 4: just sign you put your a number, your phone number, everything,

1779
01:46:08,000 --> 01:46:11,599
Speaker 4: then they can make you fine ticket here.

1780
01:46:12,760 --> 01:46:15,599
Speaker 3: In her lowest moment, Premier said she felt like giving up.

1781
01:46:16,200 --> 01:46:18,920
Speaker 3: Maybe it wasn't worth it. She thought, if you would

1782
01:46:18,960 --> 01:46:20,240
Speaker 3: do anything to get away from the hell of the

1783
01:46:20,320 --> 01:46:23,360
Speaker 3: detention center, that's the goal of these places, to break people.

1784
01:46:24,160 --> 01:46:26,439
Speaker 3: The Kible reminded her what they'd come all this way for.

1785
01:46:27,040 --> 01:46:30,000
Speaker 4: Because when I was in detention, there's a time I

1786
01:46:30,160 --> 01:46:32,479
Speaker 4: was like, I'm going to sign any deportation from Oh

1787
01:46:33,080 --> 01:46:33,960
Speaker 4: he's cream.

1788
01:46:34,840 --> 01:46:37,840
Speaker 5: She said, no, people, they are going to kill you.

1789
01:46:38,200 --> 01:46:40,840
Speaker 5: If you want to go back. Oh, it's fine. It's

1790
01:46:40,920 --> 01:46:41,200
Speaker 5: up to you.

1791
01:46:41,320 --> 01:46:43,760
Speaker 4: If you want to go, die, go not to me,

1792
01:46:43,960 --> 01:46:46,920
Speaker 4: sign your paper, not to my paper. You must sign

1793
01:46:47,040 --> 01:46:50,920
Speaker 4: yours then you can go. Don't sign my name. No,

1794
01:46:52,040 --> 01:46:54,759
Speaker 4: I do rather stay a year because I know people,

1795
01:46:55,040 --> 01:46:57,320
Speaker 4: because there's a lot of people happening in the a ice,

1796
01:46:57,880 --> 01:47:04,520
Speaker 4: especially in my country. Also, so she still remember everything.

1797
01:47:05,880 --> 01:47:08,960
Speaker 3: The depression, hunger boarder and misery that characterizes ye attention.

1798
01:47:09,080 --> 01:47:10,960
Speaker 3: It's not a bug, it's a feature. It's supposed to

1799
01:47:11,040 --> 01:47:14,320
Speaker 3: force people into breaking, into signing those papers, into getting

1800
01:47:14,360 --> 01:47:17,120
Speaker 3: sent back to whatever they came here to escape. However,

1801
01:47:17,160 --> 01:47:19,479
Speaker 3: the tenacity that bought Primroses far I hadn't left her,

1802
01:47:19,880 --> 01:47:21,720
Speaker 3: and she made sure to let them know she was

1803
01:47:21,880 --> 01:47:23,080
Speaker 3: not willingly going back.

1804
01:47:24,520 --> 01:47:26,840
Speaker 4: Then I said, no me, I'm not going anyway because

1805
01:47:28,200 --> 01:47:32,280
Speaker 4: my life is in danger. Then he said, I don't

1806
01:47:32,360 --> 01:47:36,479
Speaker 4: care even if they kill you, I don't even care.

1807
01:47:38,880 --> 01:47:41,760
Speaker 4: You have to take a reform and sign if you

1808
01:47:41,800 --> 01:47:44,840
Speaker 4: are attacked. Then I said, okay, at listen, tell me

1809
01:47:45,200 --> 01:47:49,320
Speaker 4: my kiss. Cause when they teached me, was like, everyone

1810
01:47:49,479 --> 01:47:51,240
Speaker 4: was asking me, wait, did they catch you?

1811
01:47:51,439 --> 01:47:52,160
Speaker 5: I explained.

1812
01:47:53,520 --> 01:47:57,599
Speaker 4: The other officer was like, so did they know, I said,

1813
01:47:57,600 --> 01:48:02,960
Speaker 4: I don't even know the name, but that officer, he

1814
01:48:03,080 --> 01:48:03,599
Speaker 4: was very rude.

1815
01:48:03,840 --> 01:48:05,559
Speaker 5: I don't care. Do you think I cay.

1816
01:48:05,840 --> 01:48:08,880
Speaker 4: I don't even care whether you go big to your country,

1817
01:48:08,920 --> 01:48:10,839
Speaker 4: whether they killed is none of my business.

1818
01:48:10,920 --> 01:48:11,679
Speaker 5: I gave my family.

1819
01:48:12,240 --> 01:48:17,839
Speaker 4: Oh so people were they were like shouted him, those spanishes,

1820
01:48:17,880 --> 01:48:20,519
Speaker 4: They were even crying, shouted him. He just walk away

1821
01:48:20,560 --> 01:48:25,000
Speaker 4: and believe us, So people just also starting to walk away,

1822
01:48:25,720 --> 01:48:30,600
Speaker 4: go around. We even writing not we prove like a complaint,

1823
01:48:30,680 --> 01:48:32,040
Speaker 4: but no one even coming.

1824
01:48:33,479 --> 01:48:36,200
Speaker 5: Your person? Do they day? They just come and call me.

1825
01:48:37,040 --> 01:48:38,200
Speaker 5: They are going to listening.

1826
01:48:40,520 --> 01:48:43,720
Speaker 3: Katered spent weeks calling, emailing and demanding the premieres on

1827
01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:46,519
Speaker 3: Kimberly be treated according to the rites under the Floorida settlement.

1828
01:48:47,640 --> 01:48:49,400
Speaker 3: I wasn't sure if it was a lost cause. It

1829
01:48:49,520 --> 01:48:52,160
Speaker 3: was the only option we had, and I was happy

1830
01:48:52,439 --> 01:48:55,000
Speaker 3: to Kimberley and like so many others in that detention center,

1831
01:48:55,160 --> 01:48:57,680
Speaker 3: had someone to fight for her. In fact, she had

1832
01:48:57,800 --> 01:49:00,519
Speaker 3: hundreds of people. People all across the country had donated

1833
01:49:00,560 --> 01:49:03,080
Speaker 3: to her legal aid fund. Here in San Diego, people

1834
01:49:03,120 --> 01:49:05,000
Speaker 3: put on shows and took collections to pay for her

1835
01:49:05,040 --> 01:49:08,120
Speaker 3: legal fees. Listeners to this show dipped into their pockets

1836
01:49:08,160 --> 01:49:11,599
Speaker 3: to support Primrose and Kimberly. Thanks to them, she had

1837
01:49:11,640 --> 01:49:14,920
Speaker 3: a chance to get out. Like many other legal rights

1838
01:49:14,960 --> 01:49:18,120
Speaker 3: at Migrant's House, Flores was being widely ignored, and it's

1839
01:49:18,200 --> 01:49:20,000
Speaker 3: likely that Trump have men will take a run at

1840
01:49:20,040 --> 01:49:23,400
Speaker 3: removing it altogether soon, but for now, in this one case,

1841
01:49:23,560 --> 01:49:26,640
Speaker 3: it's still applied. But even once I was conceded that

1842
01:49:26,680 --> 01:49:28,920
Speaker 3: Primrose and Kimberly had a right to be freed, they

1843
01:49:28,960 --> 01:49:30,120
Speaker 3: still took their time doing it.

1844
01:49:31,280 --> 01:49:34,880
Speaker 4: They listening on the tenth Yeah, remember you called me

1845
01:49:34,960 --> 01:49:38,439
Speaker 4: the fund the food. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I called Julia exactly.

1846
01:49:38,360 --> 01:49:39,800
Speaker 3: Before you were going to get out that week, but

1847
01:49:39,880 --> 01:49:40,880
Speaker 3: they took longer and long.

1848
01:49:40,920 --> 01:49:41,080
Speaker 15: Good.

1849
01:49:41,560 --> 01:49:45,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, the release felt like a victory, but she still

1850
01:49:45,960 --> 01:49:49,360
Speaker 3: faced the same difficulties she had before. Primrose could not

1851
01:49:49,479 --> 01:49:52,360
Speaker 3: legally work. She was still in La where border patrol

1852
01:49:52,360 --> 01:49:55,040
Speaker 3: and a baveno but conducting violent raids and people accused

1853
01:49:55,040 --> 01:49:57,320
Speaker 3: of no crime other than crossing the border between ports

1854
01:49:57,320 --> 01:50:00,320
Speaker 3: of entry. Because it was the summer, Kimberly still hadn't

1855
01:50:00,320 --> 01:50:05,120
Speaker 3: received her education, So that was July and I were

1856
01:50:05,160 --> 01:50:10,040
Speaker 3: in August. Now, yeah, you said, you know, work permit

1857
01:50:10,880 --> 01:50:11,920
Speaker 3: still hasn't come, right.

1858
01:50:12,600 --> 01:50:15,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, They clear everything. I was supposed to get my

1859
01:50:15,800 --> 01:50:21,920
Speaker 4: week permit on July July, but they clear everything like

1860
01:50:23,360 --> 01:50:28,120
Speaker 4: new everything. They just clear everything's all studying August.

1861
01:50:28,560 --> 01:50:35,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, November, now there's still no permit. His case in

1862
01:50:35,600 --> 01:50:38,920
Speaker 3: explaining in May of this year how this system works.

1863
01:50:39,640 --> 01:50:42,439
Speaker 14: You have a work permit clock, right, which is another

1864
01:50:42,479 --> 01:50:45,759
Speaker 14: absurd thing for assils that once they file their asylum application,

1865
01:50:45,880 --> 01:50:47,439
Speaker 14: they have to wait one hundred and fifty days before

1866
01:50:47,479 --> 01:50:50,599
Speaker 14: they can apply for a work permit. And of course

1867
01:50:50,640 --> 01:50:53,599
Speaker 14: they're expected to be independently wealthy during those five months

1868
01:50:53,920 --> 01:50:55,800
Speaker 14: or you know, or star over or I don't know

1869
01:50:55,800 --> 01:50:56,640
Speaker 14: what they're expected to do.

1870
01:50:57,040 --> 01:51:00,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, rely on the generosity of others, like exactly.

1871
01:51:00,760 --> 01:51:04,400
Speaker 14: So if you do something like try to change venue

1872
01:51:04,680 --> 01:51:07,080
Speaker 14: or a motion to continue, if you do something in

1873
01:51:07,120 --> 01:51:09,720
Speaker 14: your case that the judge perceives as not moving the

1874
01:51:09,760 --> 01:51:12,439
Speaker 14: case along and rather like kind of trying to stall

1875
01:51:12,520 --> 01:51:15,200
Speaker 14: it or possibly pausing it or slow it down, the

1876
01:51:15,320 --> 01:51:19,120
Speaker 14: judge will stop the work permit clock the days and

1877
01:51:19,400 --> 01:51:22,960
Speaker 14: it's a whole thing. So Primroses was stopped because the

1878
01:51:23,040 --> 01:51:28,360
Speaker 14: judge wanted her to get an attorney. So then usually

1879
01:51:28,439 --> 01:51:31,200
Speaker 14: when the case is set for a final hearing, that

1880
01:51:31,439 --> 01:51:34,519
Speaker 14: code adjournment code they call it. We have the access

1881
01:51:34,560 --> 01:51:36,320
Speaker 14: to the codes and what stops the clock and what doesn't.

1882
01:51:36,320 --> 01:51:40,240
Speaker 14: And it always restarts the clock because you move your

1883
01:51:40,280 --> 01:51:43,320
Speaker 14: case along because you're setting it for trial. It's obviously

1884
01:51:43,439 --> 01:51:45,520
Speaker 14: moving your case along. Hers was not restarted.

1885
01:51:46,520 --> 01:51:49,760
Speaker 3: That video is still on Primrose's mind as well, still

1886
01:51:49,800 --> 01:51:51,479
Speaker 3: comes up when she goes to a new church that

1887
01:51:51,560 --> 01:51:54,320
Speaker 3: meets new people, even eleven months later. One of the

1888
01:51:54,400 --> 01:51:56,360
Speaker 3: worst days of her life still follows her.

1889
01:51:57,920 --> 01:52:03,680
Speaker 4: And the person who posted me on my video please, uh.

1890
01:52:05,880 --> 01:52:08,600
Speaker 4: I don't know how to say, but the comments I

1891
01:52:08,720 --> 01:52:11,680
Speaker 4: was reading this was really big. And people they just

1892
01:52:11,920 --> 01:52:15,320
Speaker 4: judge people without if they know their status where they

1893
01:52:15,439 --> 01:52:22,599
Speaker 4: come from. Yeah, I can't control them, but deep down

1894
01:52:22,640 --> 01:52:24,599
Speaker 4: I'm not okay. And do you see it now I'm

1895
01:52:24,680 --> 01:52:29,680
Speaker 4: struggling for my knee. Yeah, and the other people they

1896
01:52:29,680 --> 01:52:36,320
Speaker 4: will laugh at me like yeah, yeah, but it's not funny.

1897
01:52:36,400 --> 01:52:39,080
Speaker 4: And I wish if the person maybe she was supposed

1898
01:52:39,080 --> 01:52:42,599
Speaker 4: to cover my face or to cover Kimbal's face.

1899
01:52:43,240 --> 01:52:49,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I didn't want the time in La to

1900
01:52:49,840 --> 01:52:52,800
Speaker 3: entirely be defined by the detention. I didn't want them

1901
01:52:52,840 --> 01:52:55,040
Speaker 3: to think that everyone in this country doesn't want them here.

1902
01:52:56,000 --> 01:52:58,479
Speaker 3: I never really expect the government to make people feel

1903
01:52:58,520 --> 01:53:00,840
Speaker 3: welcome here. I think that's something we should do. These

1904
01:53:00,880 --> 01:53:03,320
Speaker 3: people are joining our communities. They risk their lives to

1905
01:53:03,400 --> 01:53:06,200
Speaker 3: come and live here with us, and it's us who

1906
01:53:06,240 --> 01:53:08,920
Speaker 3: should welcome them. We can't leave that to the whims

1907
01:53:08,960 --> 01:53:11,200
Speaker 3: of the electoral College. We have to do it ourselves,

1908
01:53:11,320 --> 01:53:12,840
Speaker 3: just like the people in Bajujiguito did.

1909
01:53:13,960 --> 01:53:14,000
Speaker 1: So.

1910
01:53:14,080 --> 01:53:16,960
Speaker 3: I drove up to La Primrose and Kim had another

1911
01:53:17,000 --> 01:53:20,040
Speaker 3: ice appointment, and I arranged to meet them after. I

1912
01:53:20,080 --> 01:53:21,559
Speaker 3: freaked out a little bit when I couldn't get through

1913
01:53:21,600 --> 01:53:23,719
Speaker 3: to them, but eventually I did. The Big Guy's building

1914
01:53:23,760 --> 01:53:26,640
Speaker 3: has no signal inside. It turns out their place in

1915
01:53:26,800 --> 01:53:29,479
Speaker 3: La Is where I conducted the interview you heard. I

1916
01:53:29,560 --> 01:53:32,000
Speaker 3: took them out for a manicure first, because it seemed

1917
01:53:32,000 --> 01:53:33,600
Speaker 3: like some thing that would make them feel taken care of,

1918
01:53:34,280 --> 01:53:36,120
Speaker 3: and I got Kim some bubblesa because she wanted to

1919
01:53:36,160 --> 01:53:39,479
Speaker 3: try it. Sitting in the little manicure shop, watching a

1920
01:53:39,560 --> 01:53:42,519
Speaker 3: Vietnamese lady take great care over their nails felt like

1921
01:53:42,560 --> 01:53:45,880
Speaker 3: another glimpse of the communities were supplied to build where

1922
01:53:45,880 --> 01:53:47,519
Speaker 3: people from all over the world can come and be

1923
01:53:47,600 --> 01:53:51,479
Speaker 3: safe by this time, I hadn't heard from Noemi for months,

1924
01:53:51,920 --> 01:53:54,000
Speaker 3: and I started to realize I might not ever again.

1925
01:53:54,840 --> 01:53:56,680
Speaker 3: So I decided I wasn't going to let Kimberle live

1926
01:53:56,760 --> 01:53:59,320
Speaker 3: so close to Disneyland and not go. One of my

1927
01:53:59,360 --> 01:54:01,760
Speaker 3: colleagues has foundamily who worked there. We got Primrose and

1928
01:54:01,800 --> 01:54:04,559
Speaker 3: Kimberly day passes. It felt really nice just to give

1929
01:54:04,560 --> 01:54:06,280
Speaker 3: them a day to be a family and not to worry.

1930
01:54:07,120 --> 01:54:09,720
Speaker 3: I didn't go with them and record. I wanted them

1931
01:54:09,760 --> 01:54:11,479
Speaker 3: to enjoy the day on their own, and by all

1932
01:54:11,479 --> 01:54:14,920
Speaker 3: accounts they did. Primosh be fixtored of them, smiling out

1933
01:54:14,960 --> 01:54:17,679
Speaker 3: said various riots and exhibit, and I felt a little

1934
01:54:17,720 --> 01:54:20,360
Speaker 3: bit better to help make someone's American dream a little

1935
01:54:20,439 --> 01:54:24,320
Speaker 3: less of a nightmare. Tomorrow, I want to talk more

1936
01:54:24,360 --> 01:54:26,800
Speaker 3: about welcoming people in our communities and taking care of them,

1937
01:54:27,360 --> 01:54:29,200
Speaker 3: because now more than ever, I think that's what we

1938
01:54:29,320 --> 01:55:05,080
Speaker 3: have to do. The week before you're hearing this, on

1939
01:55:05,160 --> 01:55:08,360
Speaker 3: a beautiful southern California winter morning, I met some friends

1940
01:55:08,400 --> 01:55:11,440
Speaker 3: in a parking lot near the border. We hopped into

1941
01:55:11,480 --> 01:55:13,480
Speaker 3: our trucks and drove along dirt road so we reached

1942
01:55:13,520 --> 01:55:16,880
Speaker 3: a pull up. Once there, we threw on packs and

1943
01:55:17,000 --> 01:55:20,839
Speaker 3: hiked straight up a steep hillside. Even in late November,

1944
01:55:20,880 --> 01:55:23,320
Speaker 3: the south facing slope was hot. We're all sweating. By

1945
01:55:23,360 --> 01:55:25,640
Speaker 3: the time we reached the GPS location we've been given,

1946
01:55:26,360 --> 01:55:29,040
Speaker 3: it wasn't hard to spot a dark patch on the

1947
01:55:29,120 --> 01:55:32,360
Speaker 3: landscape where someone's remains had returned to the earth. One

1948
01:55:32,400 --> 01:55:34,800
Speaker 3: friend had carried a heavy wooden cross up the mountain.

1949
01:55:50,560 --> 01:55:52,880
Speaker 3: We dug a hole in the rocky ground and then

1950
01:55:52,960 --> 01:55:56,520
Speaker 3: placed the white wooden cross in it. Silently, we filled

1951
01:55:56,520 --> 01:55:59,160
Speaker 3: the whole back up, stamped on the dirt until the

1952
01:55:59,200 --> 01:56:03,280
Speaker 3: cross stood right up. Then we decorated it with marawgolds

1953
01:56:03,320 --> 01:56:07,720
Speaker 3: and seashells and dried flower petals, doing the best we could.

1954
01:56:08,880 --> 01:56:11,720
Speaker 3: One friend carefully picked the petals off the flowers laid

1955
01:56:11,760 --> 01:56:14,800
Speaker 3: them on the arms of the cross. Another sprinkled poppy

1956
01:56:14,840 --> 01:56:18,080
Speaker 3: seeds into the ground. We stood in silence for a while,

1957
01:56:18,720 --> 01:56:21,000
Speaker 3: but the construction of the secondary border wall didn't halt

1958
01:56:21,040 --> 01:56:25,320
Speaker 3: for a minute in silence, and then together we paid

1959
01:56:25,360 --> 01:56:29,560
Speaker 3: our respects to Graciela Sonton Gormez Hernandez, whose last moments

1960
01:56:29,560 --> 01:56:31,800
Speaker 3: were spent looking at the same sky we were looking at,

1961
01:56:32,640 --> 01:56:35,360
Speaker 3: gazing down onto the two border walls that were built

1962
01:56:35,400 --> 01:56:39,800
Speaker 3: to separate us from her. She died in September in

1963
01:56:39,880 --> 01:56:42,720
Speaker 3: the heat wave. The same month or year before, I'd

1964
01:56:42,720 --> 01:56:44,560
Speaker 3: had to call nine one one for several migrants with

1965
01:56:44,640 --> 01:56:48,520
Speaker 3: heat stroke. I'd come across she died, a friend told me,

1966
01:56:49,200 --> 01:56:52,600
Speaker 3: with her clothes folded next to her, sheltering under a bush.

1967
01:56:53,760 --> 01:56:56,040
Speaker 3: Looking from the place we erected the lonely little cross,

1968
01:56:56,120 --> 01:56:58,680
Speaker 3: that was all we had left remember her. I could

1969
01:56:58,680 --> 01:57:02,080
Speaker 3: see four border patrols of ail at Santana's. She was

1970
01:57:02,240 --> 01:57:05,160
Speaker 3: just a few hundred yards from the wall from the road,

1971
01:57:06,040 --> 01:57:08,160
Speaker 3: but it took weeks for anyone to find her.

1972
01:57:09,120 --> 01:57:25,959
Speaker 17: Gracila Gomez presently, Gracila Sion Gomez LANs very Gracila Gormez

1973
01:57:26,360 --> 01:57:27,920
Speaker 17: LANs very same.

1974
01:57:32,840 --> 01:57:35,960
Speaker 3: Obviously, we arrived too late to help, but we arrived

1975
01:57:36,000 --> 01:57:37,920
Speaker 3: soon enough to ensure that least in death, she was

1976
01:57:37,960 --> 01:57:40,200
Speaker 3: afforded to dignity the world has denied her in life.

1977
01:57:41,440 --> 01:57:43,880
Speaker 3: Then I strapped half of fifty gallon barrels my backpack

1978
01:57:43,920 --> 01:57:54,640
Speaker 3: frame where my friends carried slabs to water bottles. As

1979
01:57:54,720 --> 01:57:57,600
Speaker 3: we walked. A construction vehicle above us reeled holes into

1980
01:57:57,640 --> 01:57:59,840
Speaker 3: the earth for pylons that would hold a second thirty

1981
01:58:00,080 --> 01:58:03,560
Speaker 3: at wall. On the sixty degree slope above the vehicle,

1982
01:58:03,720 --> 01:58:08,000
Speaker 3: a helicopter flew around, and then it flew back underneath it.

1983
01:58:08,080 --> 01:58:10,000
Speaker 3: We were at the date on water bottles and threw

1984
01:58:10,000 --> 01:58:14,320
Speaker 3: them in a barrel. I tried to dain all.

1985
01:58:16,280 --> 01:58:22,400
Speaker 13: See okay.

1986
01:58:23,280 --> 01:58:25,520
Speaker 3: Doing this for years, we said goodbye to a fair

1987
01:58:25,560 --> 01:58:27,120
Speaker 3: share of people who he never got to say hello

1988
01:58:27,280 --> 01:58:31,600
Speaker 3: to and whose faces we never got to see. Last summer,

1989
01:58:31,600 --> 01:58:33,600
Speaker 3: I helped search to the remains of a migrant who

1990
01:58:33,600 --> 01:58:35,720
Speaker 3: had passed away in a canyon deep in the desert.

1991
01:58:36,520 --> 01:58:39,280
Speaker 3: Every time I do this fills me with a deep sadness,

1992
01:58:40,360 --> 01:58:42,280
Speaker 3: especially with all the friends from the jungle who I've

1993
01:58:42,320 --> 01:58:45,360
Speaker 3: lost touch with since then. It could be easy to

1994
01:58:45,400 --> 01:58:47,080
Speaker 3: look at everything I've laid out in this series and

1995
01:58:47,160 --> 01:58:47,839
Speaker 3: feel hopeless.

1996
01:58:48,320 --> 01:58:49,240
Speaker 12: But I don't want you to.

1997
01:58:50,440 --> 01:58:53,360
Speaker 3: It could be easy to feel afraid as well, because

1998
01:58:53,440 --> 01:58:55,959
Speaker 3: now is the time that caring about other people is dangerous.

1999
01:58:56,800 --> 01:58:59,800
Speaker 3: It's possible currently for some folks to keep their heads

2000
01:58:59,800 --> 01:59:03,040
Speaker 3: stay and try and keep themselves safe, but to can

2001
01:59:03,080 --> 01:59:05,680
Speaker 3: find their actions to are angry posting on social media.

2002
01:59:06,320 --> 01:59:08,920
Speaker 3: But our politics shouldn't be about anger. It should be

2003
01:59:08,960 --> 01:59:12,280
Speaker 3: about love. Now more than ever, it's important to remember

2004
01:59:12,360 --> 01:59:15,400
Speaker 3: that we don't act on our love and our solidarity

2005
01:59:15,480 --> 01:59:18,320
Speaker 3: with angry tweets. We act on it by taking care

2006
01:59:18,400 --> 01:59:22,840
Speaker 3: of people. However many walls they build, however many masked

2007
01:59:22,920 --> 01:59:25,960
Speaker 3: men with guns they send. I don't believe it's within

2008
01:59:26,000 --> 01:59:27,880
Speaker 3: the power of the state to stop people caring about

2009
01:59:27,880 --> 01:59:30,960
Speaker 3: each other, and I hope that that care compels people

2010
01:59:31,080 --> 01:59:34,520
Speaker 3: to do something. In fact, I think seeing so much

2011
01:59:34,600 --> 01:59:37,240
Speaker 3: cruelty makes us all realize that it's up to us

2012
01:59:37,360 --> 01:59:40,959
Speaker 3: to care for one another. People have cared for Primrose

2013
01:59:41,000 --> 01:59:43,520
Speaker 3: and kim in all kinds of ways since they came here,

2014
01:59:44,520 --> 01:59:46,200
Speaker 3: and today we're going to hear from some of them.

2015
01:59:46,960 --> 01:59:50,040
Speaker 3: Friends bought Kimberly's school books where they were stuck in Mexico.

2016
01:59:50,640 --> 01:59:52,880
Speaker 3: Some other folks put on a burlesque performance here in

2017
01:59:52,920 --> 01:59:56,000
Speaker 3: San Diego to raise money for her lawyer. Hundreds of

2018
01:59:56,080 --> 01:59:58,120
Speaker 3: you reach into your pockets to help her pay for

2019
01:59:58,320 --> 02:00:03,080
Speaker 3: legal living expenses. When the state, both under Biden and

2020
02:00:03,280 --> 02:00:07,120
Speaker 3: under Trump, made her of Kimberly feel unwelcome, you didn't.

2021
02:00:08,880 --> 02:00:10,720
Speaker 3: I've carried my fair share of water into the desert

2022
02:00:10,800 --> 02:00:14,560
Speaker 3: under Biden administration as well. It was Biden's policies that

2023
02:00:14,680 --> 02:00:18,120
Speaker 3: left little Miomi stuck in Mexico, not Trumps. It was

2024
02:00:18,200 --> 02:00:21,040
Speaker 3: Biden's policies to detain people in the open air and

2025
02:00:21,160 --> 02:00:24,680
Speaker 3: left them with no food or water or shelter. And

2026
02:00:24,800 --> 02:00:26,560
Speaker 3: it was everyday people like my friends and I who

2027
02:00:26,640 --> 02:00:28,960
Speaker 3: fed them and sheltered them and took care of them.

2028
02:00:30,080 --> 02:00:32,880
Speaker 3: We took donations and dived into dumpsters to grab tents,

2029
02:00:33,480 --> 02:00:36,120
Speaker 3: who worked hard every day to build shelters, cook food,

2030
02:00:36,160 --> 02:00:38,360
Speaker 3: and give away clothing so that people could feel welcome

2031
02:00:38,440 --> 02:00:42,000
Speaker 3: and safe here. Not a single elected official gave out

2032
02:00:42,040 --> 02:00:45,160
Speaker 3: a single sandwich, much less made one in the months

2033
02:00:45,200 --> 02:00:47,600
Speaker 3: that thousands of people were detained outdoors in a cumber

2034
02:00:47,640 --> 02:00:52,560
Speaker 3: and salisigral. But people from churches, goodwaras latterday Saints people

2035
02:00:52,720 --> 02:00:55,280
Speaker 3: and Quakers as what as a whole lot of anarchists

2036
02:00:55,320 --> 02:00:58,760
Speaker 3: and crosspunks and just desert people with no particular politics did.

2037
02:01:00,000 --> 02:01:01,600
Speaker 3: I'm not saying this to pat Us on the back.

2038
02:01:01,680 --> 02:01:03,240
Speaker 3: I don't think any of us really wanted to be

2039
02:01:03,360 --> 02:01:06,760
Speaker 3: mentioned at all. Like many of us, some of my

2040
02:01:06,840 --> 02:01:10,600
Speaker 3: happiest memories were the days we fed strangers, then sat

2041
02:01:10,680 --> 02:01:14,520
Speaker 3: around fire, sharing stories and sometimes songs. Since then, I've

2042
02:01:14,560 --> 02:01:16,640
Speaker 3: been privileged to share the joys and struggles some of

2043
02:01:16,720 --> 02:01:19,640
Speaker 3: those people faced in their new lives here. I've attended

2044
02:01:19,680 --> 02:01:22,240
Speaker 3: their weddings. I've tried to help them understand that by

2045
02:01:22,320 --> 02:01:24,720
Speaker 3: action accents, but I've helped them come to turn to

2046
02:01:24,800 --> 02:01:26,640
Speaker 3: the fact you simply can't get around large parts of

2047
02:01:26,720 --> 02:01:29,960
Speaker 3: this country without a car. I'm saying this because I

2048
02:01:30,000 --> 02:01:33,080
Speaker 3: think it's important that whatever happens after this current administration,

2049
02:01:33,840 --> 02:01:36,400
Speaker 3: we can't ever go back to the way things were before.

2050
02:01:37,320 --> 02:01:39,640
Speaker 3: We can't let migrants to be invisible in our communities.

2051
02:01:40,040 --> 02:01:43,560
Speaker 3: We can't let them keep dying at the border. Let's

2052
02:01:43,600 --> 02:01:47,320
Speaker 3: talk about what carying looks like in Primrose's case. This

2053
02:01:47,480 --> 02:01:50,080
Speaker 3: time last year, I just released my Darien Gap podcast,

2054
02:01:50,920 --> 02:01:52,920
Speaker 3: and a few weeks later I received a direct message

2055
02:01:52,920 --> 02:01:56,040
Speaker 3: about my Patreon newsletter. It was from a guy called Matt.

2056
02:01:56,760 --> 02:01:59,800
Speaker 12: My name is Matt. I'm just a normal person who

2057
02:02:00,040 --> 02:02:01,200
Speaker 12: listens to a lot of podcasts.

2058
02:02:01,960 --> 02:02:03,400
Speaker 3: I didn't know him, and he didn't know me, but

2059
02:02:03,520 --> 02:02:04,960
Speaker 3: he listened to the podcast I made.

2060
02:02:05,760 --> 02:02:09,200
Speaker 12: I can still very vividly remember where I was when

2061
02:02:09,520 --> 02:02:13,000
Speaker 12: when I listened to that, which was I was coming

2062
02:02:13,120 --> 02:02:15,600
Speaker 12: back from a dirt biking trip in Michigan, and so

2063
02:02:15,720 --> 02:02:19,240
Speaker 12: I had a seven hour drive, and I was like,

2064
02:02:19,400 --> 02:02:24,280
Speaker 12: oh cool, here's a three hour podcast that I listened to.

2065
02:02:25,040 --> 02:02:27,080
Speaker 12: And then I started listening to it, and then I

2066
02:02:27,200 --> 02:02:29,640
Speaker 12: was just like I got into that mode where I

2067
02:02:29,800 --> 02:02:32,600
Speaker 12: was just like I couldn't not finish it, you know,

2068
02:02:32,800 --> 02:02:35,720
Speaker 12: I was like absolutely hooked and just needed needed to

2069
02:02:35,800 --> 02:02:37,440
Speaker 12: get all you needed to get all the way to

2070
02:02:37,480 --> 02:02:41,240
Speaker 12: the end, and was just really really moved by the

2071
02:02:41,280 --> 02:02:41,680
Speaker 12: whole thing.

2072
02:02:42,880 --> 02:02:45,560
Speaker 3: Like many Americans until ready to be late in Biden administration,

2073
02:02:46,120 --> 02:02:48,640
Speaker 3: that knew about immigration, but he hadn't really grappled with

2074
02:02:48,720 --> 02:02:52,240
Speaker 3: the fact that what secure borders means is killing innocent

2075
02:02:52,320 --> 02:02:56,440
Speaker 3: people in the jungle, in the desert and everywhere in between.

2076
02:02:57,320 --> 02:03:00,680
Speaker 3: That's how deterrence works, That's how it's post to work.

2077
02:03:02,040 --> 02:03:06,320
Speaker 12: Like I didn't realize that that was like intentional, and

2078
02:03:06,400 --> 02:03:08,720
Speaker 12: then hearing you know, hearing hearing yours, I was just

2079
02:03:08,760 --> 02:03:13,280
Speaker 12: sort of like, oh, right, Like just the fact that

2080
02:03:13,400 --> 02:03:18,880
Speaker 12: people would go to such a just such lengths of

2081
02:03:19,320 --> 02:03:25,080
Speaker 12: of danger on a journey just across a continent and

2082
02:03:25,600 --> 02:03:29,320
Speaker 12: knowing that once they get here, they're not even welcome. Right,

2083
02:03:29,400 --> 02:03:31,560
Speaker 12: We're going to intentionally put up this like kind of

2084
02:03:31,640 --> 02:03:34,960
Speaker 12: life or death obstacle. Course, I kept thinking about it,

2085
02:03:35,040 --> 02:03:37,400
Speaker 12: and the next day I was like, let me like

2086
02:03:38,120 --> 02:03:40,000
Speaker 12: see if you've done anything else on and I found

2087
02:03:40,040 --> 02:03:42,160
Speaker 12: a couple of your couple of your other your other

2088
02:03:42,200 --> 02:03:44,960
Speaker 12: episodes on it, and I was like, wow, this, this

2089
02:03:45,200 --> 02:03:47,800
Speaker 12: is this is wild. And that was you know you

2090
02:03:48,080 --> 02:03:51,440
Speaker 12: you were You're talking about the open air detention in

2091
02:03:51,560 --> 02:03:55,400
Speaker 12: the Hakumba area, and and I was like, this is crazy,

2092
02:03:55,640 --> 02:03:58,640
Speaker 12: Like this is just happening just right outside of San Diego.

2093
02:03:58,720 --> 02:03:59,560
Speaker 12: I mean, it's just wild.

2094
02:04:00,600 --> 02:04:02,560
Speaker 3: Matt felt like now that he knew this, he couldn't

2095
02:04:02,680 --> 02:04:05,440
Speaker 3: not do something about it, so he took some of

2096
02:04:05,520 --> 02:04:08,160
Speaker 3: his vacation time at work and came to southern California.

2097
02:04:08,960 --> 02:04:11,840
Speaker 12: The thing, though, was crazy is seeing all the equipment,

2098
02:04:12,160 --> 02:04:14,960
Speaker 12: you know, the equipment, if you can call that, left

2099
02:04:15,040 --> 02:04:18,600
Speaker 12: behind by the people traveling through these places where it's

2100
02:04:18,680 --> 02:04:24,000
Speaker 12: just like normal shoes and just like cheap Walmart backpacks

2101
02:04:24,320 --> 02:04:29,240
Speaker 12: and just you know, the just basic stuff that you

2102
02:04:29,360 --> 02:04:31,400
Speaker 12: would just like where to school.

2103
02:04:32,160 --> 02:04:34,920
Speaker 3: Matt joined friends of mine in the mountains, carrying water

2104
02:04:35,040 --> 02:04:37,160
Speaker 3: and helping with some techi shues we've been wondering about.

2105
02:04:38,080 --> 02:04:40,120
Speaker 3: He saw the wall, and he saw the damage. He

2106
02:04:40,200 --> 02:04:43,000
Speaker 3: does he saw the difficult terrain people have to cross

2107
02:04:43,120 --> 02:04:44,800
Speaker 3: just to get a chance to ask for help here,

2108
02:04:45,520 --> 02:04:48,000
Speaker 3: the ways they have to risk their lives even after

2109
02:04:48,120 --> 02:04:50,720
Speaker 3: they make it to the USA. He also got to

2110
02:04:50,800 --> 02:04:52,960
Speaker 3: experience the where they're helping other people helps us.

2111
02:04:53,720 --> 02:04:56,240
Speaker 12: As I was heading back home, I definitely had this

2112
02:04:56,640 --> 02:05:01,960
Speaker 12: feeling about like like way less disc bear getting together

2113
02:05:02,200 --> 02:05:06,680
Speaker 12: with people to just do something, to just do something

2114
02:05:06,760 --> 02:05:09,680
Speaker 12: useful to help people, even if it's just like in

2115
02:05:09,800 --> 02:05:14,080
Speaker 12: a tiny way, like even if somehow it doesn't help,

2116
02:05:14,160 --> 02:05:17,560
Speaker 12: but it's like it probably will. But importantly doing it

2117
02:05:17,640 --> 02:05:21,240
Speaker 12: with other people it made me feel a lot better.

2118
02:05:21,760 --> 02:05:25,600
Speaker 12: It made me not feel so like just everything is fucked,

2119
02:05:25,840 --> 02:05:28,800
Speaker 12: like the world is descending into fascism or when there's

2120
02:05:28,840 --> 02:05:32,120
Speaker 12: nothing I can do about it. It's like there are

2121
02:05:32,400 --> 02:05:35,160
Speaker 12: a lot of people who want to help. Doing stuff

2122
02:05:35,240 --> 02:05:35,800
Speaker 12: with them.

2123
02:05:35,840 --> 02:05:39,840
Speaker 3: Is like is good. Soon after, like all of us,

2124
02:05:40,160 --> 02:05:42,240
Speaker 3: he saw the board it bringing its violence into cities

2125
02:05:42,240 --> 02:05:43,280
Speaker 3: across the United States.

2126
02:05:43,800 --> 02:05:48,560
Speaker 12: I mean, like just masked federal agents, we assume, mostly

2127
02:05:49,120 --> 02:05:52,880
Speaker 12: refusing to identify themselves, just randomly picking people up. I mean,

2128
02:05:53,120 --> 02:05:59,200
Speaker 12: it's crazy and it's just a I mean I literally

2129
02:05:59,240 --> 02:06:01,400
Speaker 12: am a loss for work. I mean it's just it's

2130
02:06:01,600 --> 02:06:07,640
Speaker 12: so the opposite of what America is all about, straight

2131
02:06:07,720 --> 02:06:10,840
Speaker 12: up like fascism. Like I just I never thought I

2132
02:06:10,840 --> 02:06:14,160
Speaker 12: would live through something like this. I always just thought

2133
02:06:14,240 --> 02:06:16,440
Speaker 12: that's the kind of thing that happens in other countries,

2134
02:06:16,800 --> 02:06:17,000
Speaker 12: you know.

2135
02:06:17,880 --> 02:06:19,800
Speaker 3: I guess a lot of us thought that. A lot

2136
02:06:19,840 --> 02:06:21,840
Speaker 3: of us probably thought this kind of state violence was

2137
02:06:21,880 --> 02:06:25,840
Speaker 3: confined to other places and other times. We wondered, perhaps

2138
02:06:25,880 --> 02:06:28,760
Speaker 3: absent mindedly, what we might do in those places and times.

2139
02:06:29,440 --> 02:06:31,720
Speaker 3: For years, as a historian and a reporter, have thought

2140
02:06:31,720 --> 02:06:34,600
Speaker 3: about them, read about them, visited them. Now I'm living

2141
02:06:34,640 --> 02:06:34,920
Speaker 3: in them.

2142
02:06:35,720 --> 02:06:38,360
Speaker 12: It's always just sort of like in the same way

2143
02:06:38,440 --> 02:06:40,840
Speaker 12: that you would think, what would happen if I was

2144
02:06:40,920 --> 02:06:44,720
Speaker 12: in this I don't know, movie, Like it's not real, Just.

2145
02:06:44,760 --> 02:06:48,000
Speaker 3: Think like, oh, what if I was Jason Bourne Matt

2146
02:06:48,080 --> 02:06:50,200
Speaker 3: Night stayed in touch one day. He was in La

2147
02:06:50,240 --> 02:06:53,040
Speaker 3: owned business and I mentioned I've been helping Primos navigate

2148
02:06:53,080 --> 02:06:55,720
Speaker 3: the mass transit nightmare that is Los Angeles so she

2149
02:06:55,760 --> 02:06:58,040
Speaker 3: could get to her ice appointment. He oftener to stop

2150
02:06:58,120 --> 02:07:00,720
Speaker 3: buy if you needed a ride anywhere connected them. He

2151
02:07:00,800 --> 02:07:02,560
Speaker 3: saw her place and he offered to help I guess

2152
02:07:02,600 --> 02:07:04,800
Speaker 3: with furniture as well, then it was time for him

2153
02:07:04,840 --> 02:07:08,640
Speaker 3: to fly home every day like I do. He had

2154
02:07:08,640 --> 02:07:11,720
Speaker 3: to worry about someone he knew being snatched. The Florida

2155
02:07:11,760 --> 02:07:15,400
Speaker 3: Settlement doesn't stop ICE from redetaining people, and in LA

2156
02:07:15,480 --> 02:07:17,520
Speaker 3: they seem to be detaining anyone they could any way

2157
02:07:17,560 --> 02:07:20,280
Speaker 3: they could. Kim had been afraid to go out now

2158
02:07:20,520 --> 02:07:23,080
Speaker 3: because she didn't want to go back to detention. So

2159
02:07:23,200 --> 02:07:26,640
Speaker 3: once again, Matt decided he wanted to do something, and

2160
02:07:26,760 --> 02:07:28,480
Speaker 3: he asked if Kim and Primrose might like to come

2161
02:07:28,520 --> 02:07:30,760
Speaker 3: and stay with him on the East coast. That's not

2162
02:07:30,840 --> 02:07:31,920
Speaker 3: an easy choice to make.

2163
02:07:32,720 --> 02:07:32,760
Speaker 1: No.

2164
02:07:32,840 --> 02:07:34,560
Speaker 3: No only does it mean sharing your space, it also

2165
02:07:34,640 --> 02:07:37,680
Speaker 3: means taking yourself out of the safe group and accepting

2166
02:07:37,720 --> 02:07:39,920
Speaker 3: that the states I of Sarron might fall on you. Now,

2167
02:07:40,480 --> 02:07:40,640
Speaker 3: you know.

2168
02:07:40,720 --> 02:07:43,400
Speaker 12: I talked it over with my wife and we were like,

2169
02:07:44,560 --> 02:07:47,200
Speaker 12: you know, both wanted to do this, and but you know,

2170
02:07:47,320 --> 02:07:51,720
Speaker 12: we had to acknowledge like it might mean that like

2171
02:07:53,000 --> 02:07:55,560
Speaker 12: these assholes and masks show up at our house, like

2172
02:07:55,640 --> 02:07:59,560
Speaker 12: where our kids are, and are like gonna haul away

2173
02:08:00,440 --> 02:08:05,080
Speaker 12: this family. That might happen in like right over there.

2174
02:08:05,640 --> 02:08:07,320
Speaker 12: I mean, I don't like it, but I.

2175
02:08:08,800 --> 02:08:09,160
Speaker 7: I don't know.

2176
02:08:09,280 --> 02:08:12,360
Speaker 12: I've just I feel like you gotta do just gotta

2177
02:08:12,400 --> 02:08:13,280
Speaker 12: do something, you.

2178
02:08:13,320 --> 02:08:16,320
Speaker 3: Know, y end. He says, it wasn't a hard decision

2179
02:08:16,360 --> 02:08:16,640
Speaker 3: to make.

2180
02:08:17,200 --> 02:08:18,880
Speaker 12: I mean it was a lot easier because my wife

2181
02:08:19,000 --> 02:08:21,240
Speaker 12: was actually just like one hundred percent let's do it.

2182
02:08:21,440 --> 02:08:22,920
Speaker 12: And I was like, well, hold on a second, look,

2183
02:08:23,120 --> 02:08:27,080
Speaker 12: we should at least think through the outcome. She's like,

2184
02:08:27,080 --> 02:08:29,120
Speaker 12: I don't care whatever, just do it.

2185
02:08:30,120 --> 02:08:32,600
Speaker 3: Like a lot of people, Matt had always done things

2186
02:08:32,640 --> 02:08:34,920
Speaker 3: to help people, but nothing like this, nothing that directly

2187
02:08:35,000 --> 02:08:36,800
Speaker 3: put him in between someone who needed to be kept

2188
02:08:36,840 --> 02:08:38,800
Speaker 3: safe and the people who didn't want them to be safe.

2189
02:08:39,640 --> 02:08:42,000
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean, nothing is dangerous.

2190
02:08:42,280 --> 02:08:42,720
Speaker 3: I mean.

2191
02:08:44,200 --> 02:08:49,720
Speaker 12: Charity stuff, but you know, sometimes with time, but usually

2192
02:08:49,920 --> 02:08:52,520
Speaker 12: just like giving money to people to you know, who

2193
02:08:52,640 --> 02:08:55,800
Speaker 12: need it or whatever. But you know, this is definitely

2194
02:08:55,960 --> 02:09:01,960
Speaker 12: the most like direct involvement to help someone who needs it.

2195
02:09:02,440 --> 02:09:05,160
Speaker 12: Certainly is the first time that I've exposed my family

2196
02:09:05,320 --> 02:09:06,800
Speaker 12: to any thing like this.

2197
02:09:18,480 --> 02:09:21,400
Speaker 3: So one day this autumn, Primos and Kimberley said goodbye

2198
02:09:21,440 --> 02:09:24,240
Speaker 3: to Los Angeles, got on a plane, flew to the

2199
02:09:24,280 --> 02:09:24,800
Speaker 3: East coast.

2200
02:09:25,760 --> 02:09:28,560
Speaker 12: I thought I was waiting at the right spot, but

2201
02:09:28,640 --> 02:09:32,360
Speaker 12: they let them out at a different there, so they

2202
02:09:32,400 --> 02:09:34,760
Speaker 12: actually walked past me. In the airport. They didn't even

2203
02:09:34,760 --> 02:09:38,680
Speaker 12: see it, but I eventually figured it out. Luckily, the

2204
02:09:38,760 --> 02:09:41,600
Speaker 12: airport is not that big, and so I could just

2205
02:09:41,680 --> 02:09:44,280
Speaker 12: sort of walk, just walk all the baggage. Claym Mary

2206
02:09:44,320 --> 02:09:45,200
Speaker 12: and I eventually found them.

2207
02:09:46,080 --> 02:09:48,840
Speaker 3: Then they went for sushi, then for ice cream, a

2208
02:09:48,920 --> 02:09:52,400
Speaker 3: perfect suburban stripmall American evening, the sort of evening people

2209
02:09:52,480 --> 02:09:55,760
Speaker 3: crossed jungles and deserts be able to enjoy, the sort

2210
02:09:55,800 --> 02:09:57,440
Speaker 3: of evening the hundreds of people I met in the

2211
02:09:57,520 --> 02:10:00,680
Speaker 3: jungle will never be able to enjoy. Of course, it's

2212
02:10:00,720 --> 02:10:02,440
Speaker 3: hard to sit in a cold stone and talk about

2213
02:10:02,480 --> 02:10:05,760
Speaker 3: the things people endure to come here. That's just sometimes

2214
02:10:05,760 --> 02:10:07,920
Speaker 3: it's still difficult to even comprehend what his new friends

2215
02:10:07,960 --> 02:10:08,440
Speaker 3: had been through.

2216
02:10:09,160 --> 02:10:11,800
Speaker 12: It's hard to answer, like you're asking me a good

2217
02:10:11,880 --> 02:10:13,720
Speaker 12: question about, like, well, what was it like et and

2218
02:10:13,760 --> 02:10:17,960
Speaker 12: it's like the difference the distance between, like our shared

2219
02:10:18,040 --> 02:10:22,200
Speaker 12: experience is so vast it's still often almost doesn't seem real.

2220
02:10:22,840 --> 02:10:25,840
Speaker 3: I've had that same thought. It's hard to hear stories

2221
02:10:25,880 --> 02:10:28,360
Speaker 3: from migrants and really think of them as human experiences,

2222
02:10:28,480 --> 02:10:31,920
Speaker 3: not just stories. That's why I go into the mountains

2223
02:10:32,120 --> 02:10:34,760
Speaker 3: and the desert. That's why I spent a decade asking

2224
02:10:34,800 --> 02:10:37,600
Speaker 3: gettus to send me to this daddy in. I didn't

2225
02:10:37,600 --> 02:10:40,040
Speaker 3: think I could understand migrants journeys if I hadn't experienced

2226
02:10:40,040 --> 02:10:42,440
Speaker 3: a little part of them. And I don't think we

2227
02:10:42,480 --> 02:10:44,480
Speaker 3: should write about migrants and not write about what they

2228
02:10:44,640 --> 02:10:46,960
Speaker 3: go through to get to a strip mall sushi place.

2229
02:10:48,160 --> 02:10:50,960
Speaker 3: Of course, Primrose isn't done with her interaction with immigration

2230
02:10:51,040 --> 02:10:54,600
Speaker 3: authorities yet. They've had visits from ICE in her new home,

2231
02:10:54,920 --> 02:10:56,840
Speaker 3: but not from enforcement removal operations.

2232
02:10:57,360 --> 02:10:59,800
Speaker 12: I mean, like they know where she lives. We told them,

2233
02:10:59,800 --> 02:11:03,280
Speaker 12: are she lives, so like she lives in my house,

2234
02:11:03,400 --> 02:11:06,600
Speaker 12: so you know, yeah, they might.

2235
02:11:07,160 --> 02:11:07,520
Speaker 15: I don't know.

2236
02:11:07,680 --> 02:11:13,240
Speaker 12: I mean, yeah, I guess I'm like not as afraid

2237
02:11:13,480 --> 02:11:18,360
Speaker 12: of that. I have to say that the ICE people

2238
02:11:18,720 --> 02:11:26,120
Speaker 12: in seem just like a bunch of cheery folks. Like

2239
02:11:27,200 --> 02:11:33,080
Speaker 12: it's seems pretty different than I mean, like I met

2240
02:11:33,200 --> 02:11:38,200
Speaker 12: many of them, yeah, part of this process, and they

2241
02:11:38,240 --> 02:11:42,960
Speaker 12: were not the like you know, plate carriers and guns guys.

2242
02:11:43,200 --> 02:11:46,600
Speaker 12: They were just like the you know, they work in

2243
02:11:46,680 --> 02:11:50,520
Speaker 12: the office and decide whether you get to move here

2244
02:11:50,680 --> 02:11:53,920
Speaker 12: or not, you know, yeah, yeah, and they were like

2245
02:11:55,400 --> 02:11:57,680
Speaker 12: very friendly and downright helpful.

2246
02:11:58,680 --> 02:12:01,160
Speaker 3: Promotes your settling in it. That's place now. But it's

2247
02:12:01,240 --> 02:12:04,800
Speaker 3: Matt explained, the struggle isn't over yet now, like.

2248
02:12:04,920 --> 02:12:09,640
Speaker 12: Our energy is more on how do we help her

2249
02:12:09,800 --> 02:12:14,640
Speaker 12: make her case because she has an asylum case that

2250
02:12:15,280 --> 02:12:18,040
Speaker 12: you know, she she needs to win and it's you know,

2251
02:12:18,440 --> 02:12:22,120
Speaker 12: I'm not a lawyer, but wow, sounds like what asylum

2252
02:12:22,280 --> 02:12:26,800
Speaker 12: is for literally running from a hostile government that she

2253
02:12:27,040 --> 02:12:33,480
Speaker 12: was protesting and was going to jail and torture her. Like,

2254
02:12:34,600 --> 02:12:36,800
Speaker 12: what what is asylum for?

2255
02:12:37,000 --> 02:12:40,200
Speaker 3: If not for that? Of course, interacting with the asylum

2256
02:12:40,280 --> 02:12:43,600
Speaker 3: system has shown that some of its absurdities, like the

2257
02:12:43,680 --> 02:12:46,520
Speaker 3: work permit clock for our bus rides to riverside, the

2258
02:12:46,720 --> 02:12:50,040
Speaker 3: endless changing regulation. So one has to navigate or trying

2259
02:12:50,080 --> 02:12:52,600
Speaker 3: to survive without the ability to legally work.

2260
02:12:53,200 --> 02:12:58,680
Speaker 12: In what way can you do this legally without some

2261
02:12:59,520 --> 02:13:04,200
Speaker 12: you know, group helping you, without like just somebody saying fine,

2262
02:13:04,240 --> 02:13:06,640
Speaker 12: I will take you and pay for your living expenses.

2263
02:13:07,360 --> 02:13:11,280
Speaker 12: What is the legal way to like seek asylum? You

2264
02:13:11,400 --> 02:13:13,680
Speaker 12: come here, they put you in jail, You stay in jail,

2265
02:13:13,760 --> 02:13:18,640
Speaker 12: which is fucking jail. Yeah they let you out of jail. Good, hooray,

2266
02:13:18,720 --> 02:13:21,960
Speaker 12: we're out of jail, and now you're homeless. Yeah, you

2267
02:13:22,320 --> 02:13:26,600
Speaker 12: have no possessions and no ability to legally work. At

2268
02:13:26,720 --> 02:13:30,120
Speaker 12: least let them work. I mean, come on, like, just

2269
02:13:31,320 --> 02:13:34,960
Speaker 12: let them get a legal job. That's just like the

2270
02:13:35,480 --> 02:13:40,480
Speaker 12: sort of bureaucracy version of the forcing people across the desert.

2271
02:13:41,040 --> 02:13:43,440
Speaker 12: It's like, well, okay, you won't die in the desert

2272
02:13:43,800 --> 02:13:47,080
Speaker 12: in this one. In this one, you will die or

2273
02:13:47,200 --> 02:13:51,720
Speaker 12: you will suffer under homelessness. More deterrence. You know, everyone

2274
02:13:51,760 --> 02:13:54,400
Speaker 12: always says, oh, what I support immigration, just got to

2275
02:13:54,440 --> 02:13:56,360
Speaker 12: be legal. You gotta do it the right way. But

2276
02:13:56,440 --> 02:13:58,480
Speaker 12: they have no idea what they're talking about, Like what

2277
02:13:58,680 --> 02:14:02,440
Speaker 12: is the right way. I believe everyone who says that

2278
02:14:02,600 --> 02:14:04,040
Speaker 12: has no idea what the right way is.

2279
02:14:05,680 --> 02:14:08,520
Speaker 3: Changing that making a law's line up with what anyone

2280
02:14:08,600 --> 02:14:12,480
Speaker 3: would see is basic decency isn't coming anytime soon. In

2281
02:14:12,560 --> 02:14:14,800
Speaker 3: the meantime, they have to navigate the asylum system. As

2282
02:14:14,840 --> 02:14:18,360
Speaker 3: many contradictions. Primo has never got any follow up care

2283
02:14:18,520 --> 02:14:21,160
Speaker 3: for her leg injury. The only way she could access

2284
02:14:21,320 --> 02:14:23,880
Speaker 3: care in her new home was once again totally impractical

2285
02:14:23,960 --> 02:14:27,160
Speaker 3: for someone without a car, just another example of how

2286
02:14:27,200 --> 02:14:29,280
Speaker 3: the system sets people up to suffer and fail.

2287
02:14:30,200 --> 02:14:33,080
Speaker 12: There's no way to get her to the doctor. Well, okay,

2288
02:14:33,280 --> 02:14:38,480
Speaker 12: there is a way, a way. Technically, we could drive

2289
02:14:38,960 --> 02:14:42,680
Speaker 12: like an hour and twenty minutes way out to this

2290
02:14:43,040 --> 02:14:47,520
Speaker 12: place that like as a thing with the ice that

2291
02:14:47,680 --> 02:14:52,080
Speaker 12: they will say like, well that's your approved like medical provider,

2292
02:14:53,160 --> 02:14:57,280
Speaker 12: Like I'm not gonna drive quarantine is each way to

2293
02:14:58,080 --> 02:15:01,240
Speaker 12: just do some minor thing. Yeah, so we pay out

2294
02:15:01,280 --> 02:15:04,600
Speaker 12: a pocket. So we go to a doctor and we

2295
02:15:04,760 --> 02:15:08,240
Speaker 12: go here's the problem we have. We don't have insurance.

2296
02:15:09,040 --> 02:15:11,480
Speaker 12: Let's get this done for as little money as possible,

2297
02:15:11,520 --> 02:15:13,879
Speaker 12: because in the United States, if you don't have insurance,

2298
02:15:14,960 --> 02:15:19,320
Speaker 12: it is going to costume. Yeah, it loves and mercifully.

2299
02:15:20,760 --> 02:15:23,560
Speaker 12: My wife and I both know a number of doctors

2300
02:15:24,360 --> 02:15:28,000
Speaker 12: that we can sort of run ideas by, and if

2301
02:15:28,040 --> 02:15:30,120
Speaker 12: we didn't have that, like, I don't know what we

2302
02:15:30,160 --> 02:15:32,720
Speaker 12: would do. It would not be good. I mean, well

2303
02:15:33,040 --> 02:15:34,520
Speaker 12: I know what we do. We would drive an hour

2304
02:15:34,560 --> 02:15:36,240
Speaker 12: and twenty minutes to the place and we would just

2305
02:15:36,320 --> 02:15:42,000
Speaker 12: be like, okay, doctor help. But like, because you know,

2306
02:15:42,560 --> 02:15:46,440
Speaker 12: we have connections and we are also willing to pay

2307
02:15:46,520 --> 02:15:49,080
Speaker 12: a little bit out of pocket. She needed to get

2308
02:15:49,120 --> 02:15:53,560
Speaker 12: some medicine. Medicine is super expensive. Yeah, so you go

2309
02:15:53,680 --> 02:15:56,360
Speaker 12: to the CBS and you're like, well, you know, oh

2310
02:15:56,400 --> 02:15:58,280
Speaker 12: we don't have your insurance on file, and we're like,

2311
02:15:58,840 --> 02:16:03,200
Speaker 12: I know, but how much is this going to really cost?

2312
02:16:03,400 --> 02:16:05,960
Speaker 12: And dude, drugs are so expensive?

2313
02:16:06,400 --> 02:16:07,840
Speaker 9: Like it's just.

2314
02:16:09,440 --> 02:16:11,040
Speaker 12: What are what are those people supposed to do?

2315
02:16:11,840 --> 02:16:14,840
Speaker 3: It's brokensistent and it's not one we can really rely

2316
02:16:14,960 --> 02:16:16,720
Speaker 3: on government to change whoever was in office.

2317
02:16:17,360 --> 02:16:22,200
Speaker 12: The Democrats don't have a great answer for this either.

2318
02:16:22,760 --> 02:16:25,480
Speaker 12: I wish they did. I mean, I will still vote

2319
02:16:25,480 --> 02:16:30,360
Speaker 12: for them because they're at least less bad. You know,

2320
02:16:30,960 --> 02:16:33,640
Speaker 12: what are the choices do you have? It's like, if

2321
02:16:33,680 --> 02:16:36,280
Speaker 12: there was a better party, I would be that one

2322
02:16:36,760 --> 02:16:39,360
Speaker 12: that I mean, if they had a chance of winning, right, yeah,

2323
02:16:40,920 --> 02:16:43,080
Speaker 12: no other party has a chance of winning. So yeah, man,

2324
02:16:43,080 --> 02:16:45,879
Speaker 12: I'm a Democrat and I will help the Democrats try

2325
02:16:45,920 --> 02:16:50,960
Speaker 12: to win elections. They push it in the direction that

2326
02:16:51,080 --> 02:16:53,880
Speaker 12: it needs to go. But the Democrats are part of

2327
02:16:53,920 --> 02:16:59,959
Speaker 12: the problem. I mean, like they're not radically changing policy.

2328
02:17:00,280 --> 02:17:05,080
Speaker 12: Is that would change this thing we've been talking about

2329
02:17:05,080 --> 02:17:05,640
Speaker 12: for the last hour.

2330
02:17:17,360 --> 02:17:20,000
Speaker 3: When I first moved to the US, George W. Bush

2331
02:17:20,040 --> 02:17:23,039
Speaker 3: as president. Soon after I got hi, Obama was elected

2332
02:17:23,200 --> 02:17:26,320
Speaker 3: and it was Thanksgiving. I didn't know much about Thanksgiving,

2333
02:17:26,360 --> 02:17:28,600
Speaker 3: and I didn't have much time for history that overlooks

2334
02:17:28,600 --> 02:17:31,039
Speaker 3: set a little lonely list them anyway. But the day

2335
02:17:31,040 --> 02:17:32,760
Speaker 3: before where it's riding my bike down the coast and

2336
02:17:32,840 --> 02:17:35,199
Speaker 3: I ran into some folks who were also riding their bikes.

2337
02:17:35,879 --> 02:17:37,520
Speaker 3: They asked what plans I had for the next day,

2338
02:17:37,520 --> 02:17:38,840
Speaker 3: and I told them I was just going to ride

2339
02:17:38,879 --> 02:17:41,600
Speaker 3: my bike all day and that's what I like to do. They,

2340
02:17:41,720 --> 02:17:44,000
Speaker 3: having just met me, invited me into their home the

2341
02:17:44,040 --> 02:17:46,240
Speaker 3: next day. They fed me and we talked for hours

2342
02:17:46,240 --> 02:17:49,400
Speaker 3: and became friends. A decade and a half later, on

2343
02:17:49,480 --> 02:17:52,520
Speaker 3: the night before Thanksgiving, my friends cooked as many beans

2344
02:17:52,560 --> 02:17:54,560
Speaker 3: as they could fit in their giant pot that we

2345
02:17:54,640 --> 02:17:56,680
Speaker 3: boiled above a propane burn and made from half a

2346
02:17:56,760 --> 02:17:59,959
Speaker 3: beer cake and the cold of the desert, some Curtish

2347
02:18:00,080 --> 02:18:02,200
Speaker 3: guys helped us ladle out scoops of hot stew for

2348
02:18:02,360 --> 02:18:05,520
Speaker 3: hundreds of people. I still don't go in for set

2349
02:18:05,600 --> 02:18:08,120
Speaker 3: like Colneliism very much, but I felt thankful to be

2350
02:18:08,160 --> 02:18:11,560
Speaker 3: in a position where I could welcome people now. That

2351
02:18:11,680 --> 02:18:13,600
Speaker 3: same year, on Christmas Eve, I was sitting on the

2352
02:18:13,640 --> 02:18:15,920
Speaker 3: tailgate of a pickup in the desert, kicking my feet

2353
02:18:16,000 --> 02:18:18,720
Speaker 3: so my toes wouldn't burn with cold. I spent the

2354
02:18:18,879 --> 02:18:21,080
Speaker 3: entire day building shelters for people out in the desert

2355
02:18:21,640 --> 02:18:23,720
Speaker 3: left therefore up to a week by the Biden administration.

2356
02:18:25,160 --> 02:18:27,800
Speaker 3: We'd handed out all our food again, but some folks

2357
02:18:27,840 --> 02:18:29,600
Speaker 3: who'd been taking care of their kids are trying to

2358
02:18:29,640 --> 02:18:31,960
Speaker 3: find a warm place how the desert went to sleep,

2359
02:18:32,040 --> 02:18:34,680
Speaker 3: had missed out on eating. So I'd find a few

2360
02:18:34,720 --> 02:18:37,240
Speaker 3: boxes of htrs, which are kind of like a worse

2361
02:18:37,320 --> 02:18:40,440
Speaker 3: but vegan version of MREs, and I took them from

2362
02:18:40,480 --> 02:18:42,240
Speaker 3: the truck and went over to the people who had

2363
02:18:42,280 --> 02:18:45,000
Speaker 3: missed dinner. They heated them up somehow on a piece

2364
02:18:45,040 --> 02:18:47,400
Speaker 3: of scrap metal over the fire. I can't really remember

2365
02:18:47,560 --> 02:18:51,279
Speaker 3: them thinking it was really janky. I struggled to describe

2366
02:18:51,360 --> 02:18:53,320
Speaker 3: how special it felt for me to be able to

2367
02:18:53,400 --> 02:18:55,360
Speaker 3: share a little of the welcome I received with other

2368
02:18:55,400 --> 02:18:58,960
Speaker 3: people like Matt. I feel more hopeful knowing that not

2369
02:18:59,120 --> 02:19:01,320
Speaker 3: only are other people just as upset as I am,

2370
02:19:02,280 --> 02:19:04,560
Speaker 3: but that alongside those other people, I can do things

2371
02:19:04,600 --> 02:19:06,440
Speaker 3: that I wouldn't have thought possible if I hadn't seen

2372
02:19:06,480 --> 02:19:08,040
Speaker 3: them with my own eyes, had done them with my

2373
02:19:08,120 --> 02:19:11,800
Speaker 3: own hands. From Obama to today, it's been up to

2374
02:19:11,920 --> 02:19:16,440
Speaker 3: us to welcome migrants. Obama set records for deportation, Biden

2375
02:19:16,520 --> 02:19:19,640
Speaker 3: beat them, albeit including Title forty two removals, and Trump

2376
02:19:19,640 --> 02:19:23,520
Speaker 3: will probably beat both this year. In the meantime, it's

2377
02:19:23,600 --> 02:19:26,720
Speaker 3: up to regular people to help one another. That shouldn't

2378
02:19:26,720 --> 02:19:29,440
Speaker 3: make us feel hopeless. It should make us feel strong.

2379
02:19:30,360 --> 02:19:33,120
Speaker 3: Matt's doing something remarkable, but I don't think he was

2380
02:19:33,160 --> 02:19:36,320
Speaker 3: in a very remarkable situation before. He was just a

2381
02:19:36,400 --> 02:19:39,160
Speaker 3: person lucky enough to have some spare time and some

2382
02:19:39,280 --> 02:19:42,080
Speaker 3: space to look after someone. But there are millions of

2383
02:19:42,120 --> 02:19:44,880
Speaker 3: people like that in this country. There are millions of

2384
02:19:44,920 --> 02:19:47,400
Speaker 3: people who are mad right now. The anger alone is

2385
02:19:47,480 --> 02:19:50,199
Speaker 3: not going to help us take care of people. That's

2386
02:19:50,240 --> 02:19:53,200
Speaker 3: what the priority should be right now. I don't want

2387
02:19:53,200 --> 02:19:55,520
Speaker 3: to paint Matt as the only person who helped Primrose,

2388
02:19:55,760 --> 02:19:58,840
Speaker 3: because hundreds of people help Primrose from the Mberalaan and

2389
02:19:58,879 --> 02:20:01,520
Speaker 3: the Jungles of Panama, and have fellow migrants WHI wash

2390
02:20:01,520 --> 02:20:04,720
Speaker 3: across Daddy and Gap, People across a continent took their

2391
02:20:04,800 --> 02:20:08,360
Speaker 3: time and their resources to help a stranger. I've heard

2392
02:20:08,400 --> 02:20:11,160
Speaker 3: of this from countless migrants as well. Some of them

2393
02:20:11,280 --> 02:20:13,879
Speaker 3: rode the train from southern Mexico up to the border,

2394
02:20:13,959 --> 02:20:17,160
Speaker 3: and people threw them food and warm jumpers to total

2395
02:20:17,200 --> 02:20:19,760
Speaker 3: strangers who they'd never met, who they'd never even got

2396
02:20:19,800 --> 02:20:23,760
Speaker 3: a chance to see, across thousands of miles. When states

2397
02:20:23,800 --> 02:20:26,880
Speaker 3: ignored their suffering, the hundreds of migrants I have talked

2398
02:20:26,920 --> 02:20:32,120
Speaker 3: to found food, shelter, and solidarity from ordinary people, and

2399
02:20:32,240 --> 02:20:34,200
Speaker 3: those people in their own way benefited too.

2400
02:20:35,040 --> 02:20:39,800
Speaker 12: It was enlightening to me that a it wasn't just me, Like,

2401
02:20:39,959 --> 02:20:42,840
Speaker 12: it's not just oh, I for some reason, I am

2402
02:20:43,280 --> 02:20:46,120
Speaker 12: the only one who's like really upset by all this.

2403
02:20:47,000 --> 02:20:49,800
Speaker 12: You know, there are other folks who are like this,

2404
02:20:49,959 --> 02:20:54,000
Speaker 12: but also just like a lot of other people are

2405
02:20:54,240 --> 02:20:58,640
Speaker 12: absolutely willing to take risks, be generous with their time

2406
02:20:58,680 --> 02:21:01,280
Speaker 12: and money, Like there's a lot of them. There's a

2407
02:21:01,320 --> 02:21:04,200
Speaker 12: lot of people who like want to help, and that

2408
02:21:04,560 --> 02:21:06,800
Speaker 12: kind of community.

2409
02:21:06,680 --> 02:21:07,480
Speaker 3: Aspect of it.

2410
02:21:08,000 --> 02:21:11,040
Speaker 12: It was a surprise to me that the doing it

2411
02:21:11,160 --> 02:21:14,160
Speaker 12: with other people was so powerful. Like I thought it

2412
02:21:14,280 --> 02:21:18,880
Speaker 12: was just about the doing the actual act of helping

2413
02:21:18,920 --> 02:21:22,800
Speaker 12: people somehow, but doing it with other people was just

2414
02:21:23,080 --> 02:21:27,879
Speaker 12: surprisingly good. Made me feel much more optimistic about our

2415
02:21:27,920 --> 02:21:29,720
Speaker 12: ability to get through this collectively.

2416
02:21:30,600 --> 02:21:32,440
Speaker 3: I asked Matt what he wanted people to know about

2417
02:21:32,480 --> 02:21:33,240
Speaker 3: his experience.

2418
02:21:34,080 --> 02:21:38,119
Speaker 12: Well, I mean, I guess what I would like people

2419
02:21:38,160 --> 02:21:41,120
Speaker 12: to know is it's not as hard as you might

2420
02:21:41,240 --> 02:21:45,120
Speaker 12: think to help folks like primos, Like it sounds insurmountable,

2421
02:21:45,240 --> 02:21:48,080
Speaker 12: like oh no, I'm exposed to all this risk and

2422
02:21:48,200 --> 02:21:52,280
Speaker 12: danger and legal hassle or whatever. But it's like it's

2423
02:21:52,400 --> 02:21:55,080
Speaker 12: not that complicated. It's like they fill out a forum

2424
02:21:55,160 --> 02:21:58,039
Speaker 12: and it just says like, oh, now I live here,

2425
02:21:58,440 --> 02:22:00,360
Speaker 12: and then once prove it, then there.

2426
02:22:01,560 --> 02:22:04,440
Speaker 3: The hard part is finding someone, especially now that migrants

2427
02:22:04,480 --> 02:22:06,120
Speaker 3: are more worried than ever to be out and in

2428
02:22:06,200 --> 02:22:09,280
Speaker 3: the community. Any database would be a risk for them.

2429
02:22:09,720 --> 02:22:11,840
Speaker 3: But maybe that's not a problem that someone can solve.

2430
02:22:12,240 --> 02:22:15,920
Speaker 12: It's kind of like an information sharing problem because like,

2431
02:22:16,120 --> 02:22:19,320
Speaker 12: these folks are all across the United States, and the

2432
02:22:19,440 --> 02:22:24,360
Speaker 12: people who could host them are similarly all across these states.

2433
02:22:25,680 --> 02:22:27,240
Speaker 3: But you don't have to take someone into your home.

2434
02:22:27,879 --> 02:22:30,160
Speaker 3: There are hundreds of things you can do wherever you are.

2435
02:22:31,080 --> 02:22:33,640
Speaker 3: You can feed people who are hungry, pick up someone's

2436
02:22:33,720 --> 02:22:35,360
Speaker 3: kids from school, or take their dogs for a walk,

2437
02:22:36,200 --> 02:22:38,720
Speaker 3: fix someone's car so it doesn't get towed or ticketed,

2438
02:22:39,080 --> 02:22:42,760
Speaker 3: or drive someone to a doctor's appointment. Creating safe communities

2439
02:22:42,800 --> 02:22:45,720
Speaker 3: for migrants is not a distinct act from creating safe

2440
02:22:45,760 --> 02:22:50,000
Speaker 3: communities for everyone. I've never been a big political theory reader,

2441
02:22:50,800 --> 02:22:52,400
Speaker 3: but I think I've learned everything I need to know

2442
02:22:52,480 --> 02:22:55,280
Speaker 3: about politics in refugue camps and the deserts and mountains

2443
02:22:55,320 --> 02:22:57,760
Speaker 3: and jungles that migrants traverse to get to this country

2444
02:22:58,480 --> 02:23:01,320
Speaker 3: in Panama, and met with the priest who houses migrants

2445
02:23:02,200 --> 02:23:05,360
Speaker 3: in California, have helped seeks and Quaker friends hand out

2446
02:23:05,400 --> 02:23:08,560
Speaker 3: warm food in the cold. We can come from a

2447
02:23:08,680 --> 02:23:11,920
Speaker 3: broad range of perspectives and still get to the same place.

2448
02:23:12,840 --> 02:23:15,840
Speaker 3: When someone needs help, you help them. And if we

2449
02:23:15,920 --> 02:23:18,280
Speaker 3: all do that, then when we need help, someone will

2450
02:23:18,320 --> 02:23:21,240
Speaker 3: help us. You don't have to wait four years to start.

2451
02:23:21,800 --> 02:23:24,560
Speaker 3: You can do it right now. While there are only

2452
02:23:24,640 --> 02:23:26,240
Speaker 3: some things we can do in the face of a

2453
02:23:26,280 --> 02:23:29,720
Speaker 3: government that doesn't want to help people like Primrose, there

2454
02:23:29,800 --> 02:23:32,560
Speaker 3: is an awful lot that we can do. For all

2455
02:23:32,600 --> 02:23:34,480
Speaker 3: the people who didn't make it to the USA from

2456
02:23:34,520 --> 02:23:37,640
Speaker 3: the jungle, we can help the people who did. We

2457
02:23:37,720 --> 02:23:40,279
Speaker 3: can also take this principle and make it a cornerstone

2458
02:23:40,320 --> 02:23:44,000
Speaker 3: of all our politics. The more people come to know migrants,

2459
02:23:44,400 --> 02:23:46,440
Speaker 3: the more they will see how broken our system is.

2460
02:23:47,320 --> 02:23:49,600
Speaker 3: The more people who see that, the more people will

2461
02:23:49,640 --> 02:23:53,440
Speaker 3: demand change. And I hope that they won't stop until

2462
02:23:53,480 --> 02:23:55,400
Speaker 3: we get a system that doesn't look at little children

2463
02:23:55,440 --> 02:23:58,360
Speaker 3: who aren't safe and say we don't want to help you,

2464
02:23:59,200 --> 02:24:01,200
Speaker 3: until we get assists to him, that doesn't make them

2465
02:24:01,240 --> 02:24:03,760
Speaker 3: walk across jungles and through deserts before they even get

2466
02:24:03,800 --> 02:24:07,200
Speaker 3: a chance to ask for help. Before we go, I

2467
02:24:07,240 --> 02:24:08,600
Speaker 3: thought I would play a part of the interview I

2468
02:24:08,600 --> 02:24:13,040
Speaker 3: did year. I speke Tristn on Monday, and he said

2469
02:24:13,040 --> 02:24:14,080
Speaker 3: his dad's still doing well.

2470
02:24:20,920 --> 02:24:23,520
Speaker 18: Truly, the migrants on this route are not here because

2471
02:24:23,560 --> 02:24:27,080
Speaker 18: they want to be. They are here because the economy

2472
02:24:27,120 --> 02:24:31,960
Speaker 18: and their countries is terrible or something. Everything is going

2473
02:24:32,000 --> 02:24:36,000
Speaker 18: badly on their countries. How can we mistreat them knowing

2474
02:24:36,080 --> 02:24:43,039
Speaker 18: that we won't not us never. This is a belief

2475
02:24:43,080 --> 02:24:46,520
Speaker 18: that we have. We are all children of God. God

2476
02:24:46,600 --> 02:24:49,160
Speaker 18: made the world and humanity, and we are not that different.

2477
02:24:50,520 --> 02:24:51,320
Speaker 18: We are all brothers.

2478
02:24:55,640 --> 02:24:57,480
Speaker 3: I want to leave the that's word today to primaries,

2479
02:24:58,160 --> 02:25:01,120
Speaker 3: because really is the story about her and him and

2480
02:25:01,240 --> 02:25:04,119
Speaker 3: the incredible tenacity encourage the show to get here.

2481
02:25:05,160 --> 02:25:08,520
Speaker 4: Even if I say I can me and myself, I

2482
02:25:08,600 --> 02:25:11,360
Speaker 4: can say thank you. I don't even know how to

2483
02:25:11,400 --> 02:25:15,199
Speaker 4: say thank you, but I'm just God knows. God, please

2484
02:25:15,280 --> 02:25:18,400
Speaker 4: blase those people who put ince on me and Kim.

2485
02:25:19,240 --> 02:25:22,520
Speaker 4: I thought maybe I'm alone, but I realized I'm not

2486
02:25:22,640 --> 02:25:28,160
Speaker 4: alone here if also people who helped me. You guys

2487
02:25:28,200 --> 02:25:32,280
Speaker 4: who helped me so much. I never even get helped

2488
02:25:32,320 --> 02:25:34,959
Speaker 4: even in my country the way I get to helped

2489
02:25:35,200 --> 02:25:35,800
Speaker 4: in America.

2490
02:25:38,040 --> 02:25:43,160
Speaker 5: And I'm really really glad.

2491
02:25:43,240 --> 02:25:47,640
Speaker 4: I'm very glad for those people who helped me. I

2492
02:25:47,760 --> 02:25:51,160
Speaker 4: have especially since when I was even in me, when

2493
02:25:51,200 --> 02:25:54,960
Speaker 4: I was in Mexico. In my prayers, i just say, God,

2494
02:25:55,480 --> 02:25:59,400
Speaker 4: just blase those people who put ince on me. You

2495
02:25:59,520 --> 02:26:02,160
Speaker 4: make me feel better. You put smile in my face

2496
02:26:02,280 --> 02:26:05,640
Speaker 4: and even came when you came here. I wasn't even

2497
02:26:05,720 --> 02:26:10,680
Speaker 4: heavy clothes to way nothing. They just only the clothes

2498
02:26:10,760 --> 02:26:13,720
Speaker 4: they gave us in detention when they detain us. That

2499
02:26:13,879 --> 02:26:16,760
Speaker 4: the clothes I was leaving I was when I want

2500
02:26:16,840 --> 02:26:19,440
Speaker 4: to wash it was a T shirt jacket. I just

2501
02:26:19,560 --> 02:26:24,000
Speaker 4: removed the top, then I washed the the inside the

2502
02:26:24,120 --> 02:26:27,000
Speaker 4: T shirt when it's dry. Then I we bothered and

2503
02:26:27,080 --> 02:26:28,240
Speaker 4: put in you when we were like.

2504
02:26:29,760 --> 02:26:32,199
Speaker 5: But for now, I'm.

2505
02:26:32,160 --> 02:26:38,760
Speaker 4: Really really appreciated a lot. I really appreciate a lot

2506
02:26:38,879 --> 02:26:43,840
Speaker 4: because my life is like changing now.

2507
02:26:44,400 --> 02:26:47,640
Speaker 3: So yeah, and it's.

2508
02:26:50,160 --> 02:26:53,720
Speaker 6: Like you were saying, the things came or he would

2509
02:26:53,760 --> 02:26:56,520
Speaker 6: be so different from the chances you had. Right, she

2510
02:26:56,600 --> 02:27:02,280
Speaker 6: can she speaks English, she speaks Spanish, she can go

2511
02:27:02,440 --> 02:27:03,320
Speaker 6: to school here.

2512
02:27:04,200 --> 02:27:06,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. Does that make you happy when you think about.

2513
02:27:06,720 --> 02:27:08,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm Reyaby.

2514
02:27:08,920 --> 02:27:11,560
Speaker 4: Even if I even told you, Kim, I was asking

2515
02:27:11,600 --> 02:27:15,199
Speaker 4: you one day, I said, Kim, what if I die today?

2516
02:27:17,000 --> 02:27:19,640
Speaker 4: She was even mentioned your name, said, I would just

2517
02:27:19,760 --> 02:27:22,480
Speaker 4: ask him maybe I can just go to school?

2518
02:27:24,400 --> 02:27:25,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, wish.

2519
02:27:26,000 --> 02:27:28,000
Speaker 4: Also she was like, Mammy, I want to write my

2520
02:27:28,120 --> 02:27:31,240
Speaker 4: book when I start high school. I need to write

2521
02:27:31,320 --> 02:27:34,520
Speaker 4: my story of my life because we have been through

2522
02:27:34,640 --> 02:27:38,240
Speaker 4: a lot, but now we are happy. I don't want

2523
02:27:38,240 --> 02:27:42,360
Speaker 4: to live with your support. Guys, I'm really appreciated. Yeah,

2524
02:27:42,480 --> 02:27:44,320
Speaker 4: because if she go to school, I'm happy.

2525
02:27:45,480 --> 02:27:46,120
Speaker 19: I know she.

2526
02:27:47,400 --> 02:27:49,400
Speaker 5: I want you to heave a better life.

2527
02:27:50,000 --> 02:28:10,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is it could happen here.

2528
02:28:10,480 --> 02:28:13,880
Speaker 19: Executive Disorder our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the

2529
02:28:13,879 --> 02:28:16,120
Speaker 19: White House, the crumbling world, and what it means for you.

2530
02:28:16,280 --> 02:28:17,080
Speaker 3: I'm Garrison Davis.

2531
02:28:17,120 --> 02:28:21,200
Speaker 19: Today I'm joined by James Stout and Sophie Lichterman. This episode,

2532
02:28:21,360 --> 02:28:24,240
Speaker 19: we are covering the week of November twenty fourth to

2533
02:28:24,320 --> 02:28:25,279
Speaker 19: December fourth.

2534
02:28:25,200 --> 02:28:26,320
Speaker 3: An extra long week.

2535
02:28:26,840 --> 02:28:29,960
Speaker 19: Somehow the squeezed a few more days in there to

2536
02:28:30,160 --> 02:28:33,000
Speaker 19: open us up. James, what are what are some important

2537
02:28:33,120 --> 02:28:34,840
Speaker 19: small stories we don't want to overlook?

2538
02:28:35,160 --> 02:28:38,560
Speaker 3: Okay? Yeah, yeah, a lot because of our extra long week, right?

2539
02:28:38,840 --> 02:28:39,040
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2540
02:28:39,560 --> 02:28:44,800
Speaker 3: The United States is flying manned ISR flights over Nigeria

2541
02:28:45,320 --> 02:28:47,600
Speaker 3: and possibly parts of the Sahel as well. It's not

2542
02:28:47,760 --> 02:28:50,119
Speaker 3: entirely clear because the flights kind of go dark once

2543
02:28:50,160 --> 02:28:53,279
Speaker 3: they take off. Sources familiar with the matter have suggested

2544
02:28:53,360 --> 02:28:57,320
Speaker 3: that you AV strikes might begin soon. It seems that

2545
02:28:57,400 --> 02:29:00,200
Speaker 3: the ISR flights are targeting Iswapan. J And I am.

2546
02:29:00,800 --> 02:29:03,080
Speaker 3: I'm gonna write about this on my Patreon, probably because

2547
02:29:03,200 --> 02:29:05,320
Speaker 3: I think it requires visuals and I think it's it's

2548
02:29:05,400 --> 02:29:06,800
Speaker 3: too much to go into in depth here. But if

2549
02:29:06,800 --> 02:29:08,480
Speaker 3: you want to check that out, you can. Can you

2550
02:29:08,680 --> 02:29:11,240
Speaker 3: explain some of those acronyms? No, I just love to

2551
02:29:11,280 --> 02:29:16,280
Speaker 3: find it's great when you report on military ship because

2552
02:29:16,280 --> 02:29:19,680
Speaker 3: it's just a wall of acronyms. Okay, I SR flights.

2553
02:29:19,879 --> 02:29:23,320
Speaker 3: These are intelligence flights, right, Intelligence surveillance reconnaissance. I believe

2554
02:29:23,320 --> 02:29:26,360
Speaker 3: it's an acronym they're looking for stuff for ua V.

2555
02:29:26,959 --> 02:29:31,280
Speaker 3: On manned aerial vehicle, there's a gender neutral term and

2556
02:29:31,400 --> 02:29:37,120
Speaker 3: I can't remember unpiloted aerial vehicle walk is back hard.

2557
02:29:38,240 --> 02:29:40,480
Speaker 3: That's the bid nearer thing, right when you get killed

2558
02:29:40,520 --> 02:29:44,000
Speaker 3: by an unaccountable drone, But it's gender neutral. The it's

2559
02:29:44,080 --> 02:29:47,320
Speaker 3: what that's the Islamic State williar in that part of

2560
02:29:47,360 --> 02:29:50,039
Speaker 3: the world, so like Province, West Africa Province. I think

2561
02:29:50,040 --> 02:29:52,560
Speaker 3: it stands for these are the targets of these flights

2562
02:29:52,600 --> 02:29:55,080
Speaker 3: and strikes and Jay and I am being another jahardest

2563
02:29:55,120 --> 02:29:58,680
Speaker 3: group that is not associated with the so called Islamic State,

2564
02:29:58,920 --> 02:29:59,240
Speaker 3: got it?

2565
02:30:00,360 --> 02:30:00,600
Speaker 4: Wow?

2566
02:30:01,240 --> 02:30:04,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, hit you with another acronym, A foyer. I

2567
02:30:04,320 --> 02:30:07,600
Speaker 3: think I think we know that. One fire by the

2568
02:30:07,680 --> 02:30:11,440
Speaker 3: Cato Institute has revealed that the FBI under Biden was

2569
02:30:11,560 --> 02:30:16,039
Speaker 3: investigating the SRA that's a socialist rifle association. It didn't

2570
02:30:16,080 --> 02:30:18,240
Speaker 3: bring charges against any of the members, but it did

2571
02:30:18,680 --> 02:30:23,160
Speaker 3: apparently investigate him for some time. Finally, the National Park

2572
02:30:23,320 --> 02:30:26,520
Speaker 3: Service has announced a new fee schedule and quote unquote

2573
02:30:26,640 --> 02:30:28,480
Speaker 3: modernized graphics for passes.

2574
02:30:28,640 --> 02:30:30,760
Speaker 1: Is this the horrific image you sent us?

2575
02:30:31,040 --> 02:30:33,840
Speaker 3: Yes, it's a picture of Donald Trump. Yeah, that's how

2576
02:30:33,879 --> 02:30:37,320
Speaker 3: they've modernized it. It's it's not very nice. I I

2577
02:30:37,920 --> 02:30:40,000
Speaker 3: know there are better things in the parks. I feel like, like,

2578
02:30:40,120 --> 02:30:44,920
Speaker 3: you know, half Dome is nice, the Yosemite Valley, Yeah,

2579
02:30:45,440 --> 02:30:48,680
Speaker 3: pretty cool. Shit in wrangle sint Elias that you could

2580
02:30:48,680 --> 02:30:49,240
Speaker 3: do instead.

2581
02:30:49,640 --> 02:30:53,800
Speaker 1: That's like him trying to rename that East Institute after himself.

2582
02:30:54,440 --> 02:30:58,280
Speaker 1: He just keeps trying to put his face and name

2583
02:30:58,680 --> 02:31:00,840
Speaker 1: on everything. Yeah.

2584
02:31:00,959 --> 02:31:04,200
Speaker 3: Well, when you're a dying man, legacy becomes very important.

2585
02:31:04,480 --> 02:31:09,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly, But that's exactly it. The US Institute

2586
02:31:09,600 --> 02:31:11,560
Speaker 1: of Peace is being renamed for Trump.

2587
02:31:12,240 --> 02:31:17,920
Speaker 3: Really yeah, oh I know I miss that. Great cool.

2588
02:31:18,160 --> 02:31:21,400
Speaker 1: It's feeling very similar to that, whether he's just putting

2589
02:31:21,440 --> 02:31:23,160
Speaker 1: his face and name on everything.

2590
02:31:23,480 --> 02:31:23,680
Speaker 15: Yeah.

2591
02:31:24,920 --> 02:31:28,279
Speaker 3: So two things, right, electronic passes for parks it's phony

2592
02:31:28,280 --> 02:31:32,200
Speaker 3: a good thing, And a one hundred dollars up charge

2593
02:31:32,360 --> 02:31:35,920
Speaker 3: for non United States I think it's residents as opposed

2594
02:31:35,959 --> 02:31:38,480
Speaker 3: to citizens in the eleven most popular parks.

2595
02:31:38,520 --> 02:31:39,560
Speaker 1: How can they even check that?

2596
02:31:39,680 --> 02:31:41,880
Speaker 19: I might just ask like this, this sounds like a

2597
02:31:41,959 --> 02:31:45,080
Speaker 19: tourism thing, right, like they just wanted people to dinner,

2598
02:31:45,440 --> 02:31:46,920
Speaker 19: like visiting the States to pay more.

2599
02:31:47,280 --> 02:31:49,400
Speaker 3: To be clear, other countries do this. I still think

2600
02:31:49,440 --> 02:31:51,720
Speaker 3: it's bad. Like some of the Grand Canyon is part

2601
02:31:51,720 --> 02:31:54,840
Speaker 3: of a cultural patrimony of all of humanity. Yeah, the

2602
02:31:54,959 --> 02:31:57,959
Speaker 3: National Park Service itself is an exercise in set like colonialism.

2603
02:31:58,040 --> 02:32:00,800
Speaker 3: But we can talk about that forever. Yeah, I've seen

2604
02:32:00,920 --> 02:32:03,160
Speaker 3: some stuff with gate ranges, be like, I'm absolutely not

2605
02:32:03,240 --> 02:32:06,480
Speaker 3: asking feel green cord. Yeah, no, that's silly fear ranges.

2606
02:32:06,560 --> 02:32:08,440
Speaker 3: But yeah, I think they were just kind of assuming

2607
02:32:08,480 --> 02:32:10,200
Speaker 3: good faith. A lot of other countries do do this,

2608
02:32:10,760 --> 02:32:14,160
Speaker 3: It's not unusual. I still think it sucks. There's also

2609
02:32:14,360 --> 02:32:17,680
Speaker 3: an interagency pass. It's two fifty for non residents and

2610
02:32:17,720 --> 02:32:20,840
Speaker 3: eighty dollars for residents. So those are they're the big

2611
02:32:20,959 --> 02:32:21,520
Speaker 3: changes there.

2612
02:32:22,280 --> 02:32:26,200
Speaker 19: Speaking of big changes, a pretty big update in a

2613
02:32:26,360 --> 02:32:30,320
Speaker 19: case that has lasted nearly five years. This morning, Thursday,

2614
02:32:30,360 --> 02:32:33,960
Speaker 19: December fourth, a suspect was arrested in connection to the

2615
02:32:34,120 --> 02:32:37,400
Speaker 19: pipe bombs placed around the capital the night before January sixth,

2616
02:32:37,760 --> 02:32:41,520
Speaker 19: specifically at the DNC and rnc aad quarters in Washington,

2617
02:32:41,640 --> 02:32:44,320
Speaker 19: d C. This suspect has been identified as thirty year

2618
02:32:44,320 --> 02:32:49,640
Speaker 19: old Brian Cole Junior, from a Woodbridge, Virginia. Federal law

2619
02:32:49,680 --> 02:32:51,840
Speaker 19: enforcement sources have told The New York post that the

2620
02:32:51,920 --> 02:32:57,920
Speaker 19: suspect may have had quote unquote anarchist leanings unquote. This

2621
02:32:58,040 --> 02:33:01,000
Speaker 19: could mean anything, right, This could be anything from like

2622
02:33:01,120 --> 02:33:07,480
Speaker 19: anti government, violent extremism like militia movement type extremism, Boogaloo boys, accelerationist,

2623
02:33:07,720 --> 02:33:11,280
Speaker 19: as well as possible left wing anarchist leanings. Sure, it

2624
02:33:11,360 --> 02:33:14,160
Speaker 19: could be any number of things. There's still very limited

2625
02:33:14,160 --> 02:33:17,600
Speaker 19: information about this. Even in the like DJ press conference

2626
02:33:17,640 --> 02:33:20,440
Speaker 19: that just wrapped up a few minutes before we started recording.

2627
02:33:21,280 --> 02:33:23,680
Speaker 19: They're being pretty tight left about details. And I think

2628
02:33:23,680 --> 02:33:27,360
Speaker 19: about his gait, Well, yes, people are asking about his gait,

2629
02:33:27,920 --> 02:33:33,200
Speaker 19: and allegedly he had begun building explosive devices in twenty nineteen.

2630
02:33:34,000 --> 02:33:37,680
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, So like some some background.

2631
02:33:37,640 --> 02:33:41,600
Speaker 19: This arrest does partially discredit a report from The Blaze,

2632
02:33:41,640 --> 02:33:43,920
Speaker 19: which Robert has talked about on this show before, which

2633
02:33:44,000 --> 02:33:47,440
Speaker 19: falsely identified a former Capitol Police officer as the bomber

2634
02:33:47,840 --> 02:33:49,800
Speaker 19: based on Gate analysis.

2635
02:33:50,640 --> 02:33:52,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, if they prosecute someone else, the Blaze is going

2636
02:33:52,959 --> 02:33:55,760
Speaker 3: to get sued out of existence. So I would imagine they.

2637
02:33:55,840 --> 02:33:59,680
Speaker 19: Critical support to former Capital police officer puts the Blaze

2638
02:33:59,720 --> 02:34:03,120
Speaker 19: out of business. Wow, pour one out for Glenn Beck.

2639
02:34:04,240 --> 02:34:08,200
Speaker 19: But this suspect that lives at a home associated with

2640
02:34:08,480 --> 02:34:11,600
Speaker 19: both their parents. It's unclear if their parents are still married.

2641
02:34:12,320 --> 02:34:15,560
Speaker 19: Suspects dad runs a bail bond business, which the Sun

2642
02:34:16,280 --> 02:34:19,320
Speaker 19: is supposed to have worked for, and the mom is

2643
02:34:19,360 --> 02:34:24,000
Speaker 19: a real estate agent. Not much online presence can be

2644
02:34:24,200 --> 02:34:28,880
Speaker 19: found yet on Brian Cole Junior. I've spent hours looking

2645
02:34:29,360 --> 02:34:32,000
Speaker 19: and so far not much there. But we'll see if

2646
02:34:32,080 --> 02:34:33,200
Speaker 19: that changes over time.

2647
02:34:34,440 --> 02:34:35,680
Speaker 1: A developing story.

2648
02:34:36,040 --> 02:34:38,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we'll do a whole episode if it marriage

2649
02:34:38,320 --> 02:34:42,360
Speaker 3: it later, I guess sure. Talking of terrible indictment, Garrison,

2650
02:34:42,480 --> 02:34:44,959
Speaker 3: would you like to hear about a terrible indictment out

2651
02:34:45,000 --> 02:34:45,600
Speaker 3: of Texas?

2652
02:34:46,280 --> 02:34:49,560
Speaker 19: I'm going to say yes, but no, I don't know

2653
02:34:49,600 --> 02:34:52,680
Speaker 19: if i'd like to for what reasons? I feel like

2654
02:34:52,720 --> 02:34:54,840
Speaker 19: you're going to do it anyway, so I'll play along.

2655
02:34:55,600 --> 02:34:58,240
Speaker 3: Two Texas men have been indicted for a plan to

2656
02:34:58,320 --> 02:35:01,360
Speaker 3: invade a small island off hate, kill all the men,

2657
02:35:01,640 --> 02:35:04,640
Speaker 3: and sexually enslave all the women and children.

2658
02:35:04,760 --> 02:35:05,680
Speaker 1: What I'm sorry?

2659
02:35:05,959 --> 02:35:06,000
Speaker 20: What?

2660
02:35:07,080 --> 02:35:10,080
Speaker 3: Yeah? This is this is a wild one. The indictment

2661
02:35:10,160 --> 02:35:13,160
Speaker 3: says they we hope to quote lead an unlawful expeditionary

2662
02:35:13,240 --> 02:35:15,320
Speaker 3: force to the island of Gonave, which is part of

2663
02:35:15,360 --> 02:35:18,840
Speaker 3: the Republic of at For the purpose of carrying out

2664
02:35:18,879 --> 02:35:24,200
Speaker 3: their rape fantasies. Weisinberg and Thomas plan to purchase a sailboat, firearms,

2665
02:35:24,240 --> 02:35:27,160
Speaker 3: and ammunition, then recruit members of the District of Columbia

2666
02:35:27,240 --> 02:35:30,360
Speaker 3: area homeless population to serve as a mercenary force, as

2667
02:35:30,400 --> 02:35:34,920
Speaker 3: say invader Gnave Island and stage Acudaita. Weisenberg and Thomas

2668
02:35:34,959 --> 02:35:36,920
Speaker 3: intended to murder all of the men on the island

2669
02:35:37,080 --> 02:35:39,360
Speaker 3: so they could turn all of the women and children

2670
02:35:39,400 --> 02:35:43,040
Speaker 3: into their sex slaves. That is what is alleged in

2671
02:35:43,160 --> 02:35:47,440
Speaker 3: the indictment. Right be an interesting case. One of them

2672
02:35:47,760 --> 02:35:50,120
Speaker 3: had joined the Air Force in twenty twenty five to

2673
02:35:50,400 --> 02:35:52,640
Speaker 3: get some military experience, or was in the Air Force

2674
02:35:52,840 --> 02:35:55,640
Speaker 3: this year to get some military experience and has successfully

2675
02:35:55,760 --> 02:36:00,320
Speaker 3: been transferred to nearer to d C from where they

2676
02:36:00,360 --> 02:36:03,400
Speaker 3: hope to recruit unhoused people to service merceries.

2677
02:36:03,840 --> 02:36:09,200
Speaker 1: This is absolutely insane. Who are who are these two

2678
02:36:09,320 --> 02:36:11,360
Speaker 1: Texas men? Why do they think this is like a

2679
02:36:11,480 --> 02:36:13,600
Speaker 1: thing that can be like, all.

2680
02:36:13,560 --> 02:36:18,400
Speaker 3: Right, it's borderline something I considered not including because like

2681
02:36:18,520 --> 02:36:20,720
Speaker 3: the people are probably pretty unwell.

2682
02:36:20,959 --> 02:36:23,800
Speaker 1: It seems like are they just obsessed with like Eric

2683
02:36:23,920 --> 02:36:26,240
Speaker 1: Prince like, I don't, I don't understand.

2684
02:36:26,240 --> 02:36:26,520
Speaker 19: I don't.

2685
02:36:27,200 --> 02:36:30,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, if the guy hadn't passed all the background

2686
02:36:30,120 --> 02:36:31,760
Speaker 3: checks to get into the air Force, I feel like

2687
02:36:31,840 --> 02:36:35,840
Speaker 3: this would be less remarkable. Right, But while planning to

2688
02:36:36,080 --> 02:36:40,920
Speaker 3: invade a small island and enslave everybody he got into

2689
02:36:41,040 --> 02:36:45,160
Speaker 3: the air force. That that in itself like like should

2690
02:36:45,200 --> 02:36:47,440
Speaker 3: be a story. And of course it is all alleged, right,

2691
02:36:47,520 --> 02:36:50,720
Speaker 3: it's all in an indictment. We don't know what the

2692
02:36:50,840 --> 02:36:52,880
Speaker 3: evidential basis for a lot of this is.

2693
02:36:53,720 --> 02:36:55,160
Speaker 1: Well, that was disturbing.

2694
02:36:55,680 --> 02:36:58,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's wild one. I guess we'll keep you informed.

2695
02:36:59,600 --> 02:37:03,879
Speaker 3: What Garson Garrison.

2696
02:37:04,040 --> 02:37:08,320
Speaker 1: I like, I like, can't even compute, Like, that's one

2697
02:37:08,360 --> 02:37:10,840
Speaker 1: of the most insane things I've heard in a really

2698
02:37:10,920 --> 02:37:11,360
Speaker 1: long time.

2699
02:37:12,560 --> 02:37:17,119
Speaker 19: Well, fors of economic news, let's has thrown to tariffs.

2700
02:37:17,440 --> 02:37:19,160
Speaker 1: Let's glow to tariff talk with me a.

2701
02:37:23,840 --> 02:37:34,520
Speaker 20: Rocking jazz rockety jazz bot rocking jazz rocky jazz bo.

2702
02:37:37,200 --> 02:37:41,040
Speaker 21: This is mea wong with tariff talk. So obviously, the

2703
02:37:41,080 --> 02:37:45,080
Speaker 21: biggest tariff news right now is the impending Supreme Court

2704
02:37:45,200 --> 02:37:49,400
Speaker 21: ruling on the legality of a broad swath of the

2705
02:37:49,520 --> 02:37:54,560
Speaker 21: terrorists that Trump has imposed using unbelievably dubious legal and

2706
02:37:54,600 --> 02:37:57,680
Speaker 21: economic authority. And by unbelievably dubious, I mean it is

2707
02:37:58,600 --> 02:38:03,320
Speaker 21: so patently illegal. It is an astounding demonstration of the

2708
02:38:03,400 --> 02:38:09,240
Speaker 21: complete advocation of the Supreme Court's pretensions at being one

2709
02:38:09,280 --> 02:38:12,280
Speaker 21: of the branches of government. That this hasn't already been overturned.

2710
02:38:13,160 --> 02:38:16,120
Speaker 21: But this is ruling has not dropped yet. Everyone's waiting.

2711
02:38:16,760 --> 02:38:20,360
Speaker 21: So in the meantime, what we have is a bunch

2712
02:38:20,400 --> 02:38:22,960
Speaker 21: of Trump administration officials have been going on TV and

2713
02:38:23,040 --> 02:38:27,680
Speaker 21: talking about trade policy, and they're saying something that we've

2714
02:38:27,760 --> 02:38:30,720
Speaker 21: been hearing for a while now, which is that they

2715
02:38:30,959 --> 02:38:34,040
Speaker 21: believe that they can use different set of legal authority

2716
02:38:34,080 --> 02:38:37,480
Speaker 21: to impose the same tariffs. Whether they can do this

2717
02:38:37,680 --> 02:38:40,000
Speaker 21: or not, is I mean, they shouldn't be able to

2718
02:38:40,080 --> 02:38:41,680
Speaker 21: do this, like all of that, All of the authority

2719
02:38:41,720 --> 02:38:45,360
Speaker 21: they're using is pretty ridiculous. But this has been This

2720
02:38:45,440 --> 02:38:49,000
Speaker 21: has been their strategy. They've been reiterating their strategy. On

2721
02:38:49,200 --> 02:38:52,440
Speaker 21: the other side, we've seen some interesting movement in terms

2722
02:38:52,680 --> 02:38:55,959
Speaker 21: of the opposition, which is that Costco has become sort

2723
02:38:56,000 --> 02:38:59,000
Speaker 21: of the biggest company to join in this trend of

2724
02:38:59,720 --> 02:39:02,280
Speaker 21: company and he's like going to court with lawsuits to

2725
02:39:02,360 --> 02:39:06,199
Speaker 21: try to recoup the money that they've spent on these tariffs,

2726
02:39:06,320 --> 02:39:10,920
Speaker 21: because if the Supreme Court ruling like overturns the legality

2727
02:39:11,000 --> 02:39:13,920
Speaker 21: of these terriffs, these companies can get their money back retroactively.

2728
02:39:13,959 --> 02:39:16,000
Speaker 21: Costco is the biggest company we've seen so far short

2729
02:39:16,000 --> 02:39:19,080
Speaker 21: of moved to attempt to do this remedy to the courts.

2730
02:39:20,280 --> 02:39:21,880
Speaker 21: So we will, we will, we will keep an eye

2731
02:39:21,959 --> 02:39:24,240
Speaker 21: on this. And this is you know, I think, I think,

2732
02:39:24,320 --> 02:39:26,240
Speaker 21: especially if this comes overturned, we're going to see a

2733
02:39:26,240 --> 02:39:28,600
Speaker 21: lot of companies trying to make moves for this. This

2734
02:39:28,680 --> 02:39:30,119
Speaker 21: is something that is going to piss off the Trump

2735
02:39:30,120 --> 02:39:34,000
Speaker 21: administration because they've been talking a giant game about how,

2736
02:39:34,120 --> 02:39:36,000
Speaker 21: oh these are going to fund the like two thousand

2737
02:39:36,040 --> 02:39:39,000
Speaker 21: dollars tariff checks you're never getting. Trump is literally talking

2738
02:39:39,040 --> 02:39:40,760
Speaker 21: about and this is the you know, this is an

2739
02:39:40,760 --> 02:39:43,600
Speaker 21: old sort of right wing thing, but he's talking about how, oh,

2740
02:39:43,800 --> 02:39:48,240
Speaker 21: terriff's revenue is going to replace income tax, which no,

2741
02:39:48,400 --> 02:39:52,320
Speaker 21: it's not like I just nonsense, gibberish numbers don't work.

2742
02:39:52,440 --> 02:39:55,280
Speaker 21: Orders the magnitude off just nonsense can't work.

2743
02:39:56,040 --> 02:39:57,120
Speaker 3: But you know, this is there.

2744
02:39:57,120 --> 02:39:58,840
Speaker 21: These are things that they're saying, and there's probably going

2745
02:39:58,920 --> 02:40:01,280
Speaker 21: to be an increasing conflict between the sectors of capital

2746
02:40:01,360 --> 02:40:03,880
Speaker 21: that just want their money back from these tariffs and

2747
02:40:03,959 --> 02:40:07,200
Speaker 21: the Trump administration, which you know, wants there's money for its,

2748
02:40:07,480 --> 02:40:10,280
Speaker 21: you know, nebulus political purposes. There's been some sort of

2749
02:40:10,360 --> 02:40:14,760
Speaker 21: interesting political developments in terms of Trump and Lula. So

2750
02:40:15,000 --> 02:40:17,440
Speaker 21: people will probably remember from listening to the show that

2751
02:40:17,520 --> 02:40:21,080
Speaker 21: there have been very very high turiffs on Brazil that

2752
02:40:21,200 --> 02:40:25,560
Speaker 21: are effectively political tariffs for actually putting one gi Air

2753
02:40:25,600 --> 02:40:30,400
Speaker 21: Bolscenaro in prison for you know, the mere crime of

2754
02:40:30,640 --> 02:40:34,039
Speaker 21: attempting to overthrow the government to install himself as the.

2755
02:40:34,160 --> 02:40:35,199
Speaker 12: Ruler of Brazil.

2756
02:40:35,840 --> 02:40:40,000
Speaker 21: Now there has been over the past few weeks there's

2757
02:40:40,040 --> 02:40:41,880
Speaker 21: been some sort of ratcheting down of a lot of

2758
02:40:41,959 --> 02:40:43,600
Speaker 21: the tariffs. There's been a bunch of goods that have

2759
02:40:43,640 --> 02:40:46,480
Speaker 21: been exempt from the teriffs as part of Trump's sort

2760
02:40:46,520 --> 02:40:50,119
Speaker 21: of widespread efforts to like lower food prices, because there's

2761
02:40:50,120 --> 02:40:52,119
Speaker 21: a bunch of food goods that are being exempt from

2762
02:40:52,200 --> 02:40:55,560
Speaker 21: this stuff. And there was also very recently we got

2763
02:40:55,600 --> 02:40:58,080
Speaker 21: an actual call between Trump and Lula which seems to

2764
02:40:58,160 --> 02:41:01,240
Speaker 21: have gone fairly well, you know, at least it seems

2765
02:41:01,240 --> 02:41:03,360
Speaker 21: to have been cordial. The two seem to both be

2766
02:41:03,680 --> 02:41:05,680
Speaker 21: coming out of it saying like, oh, we agree on things.

2767
02:41:05,959 --> 02:41:08,320
Speaker 21: It's going to go great. And this is to a

2768
02:41:08,400 --> 02:41:10,480
Speaker 21: large extent, an attempt to do a replay of Lula's

2769
02:41:10,480 --> 02:41:12,800
Speaker 21: positive relationship with the Bush administration the last time he

2770
02:41:12,920 --> 02:41:15,000
Speaker 21: was in power, where and this is you know, this

2771
02:41:15,080 --> 02:41:17,640
Speaker 21: has been a trend in the in the sort of

2772
02:41:18,000 --> 02:41:21,200
Speaker 21: the original pink tide and in this government where you

2773
02:41:21,400 --> 02:41:24,160
Speaker 21: have a kind of mix of the sort of pink

2774
02:41:24,160 --> 02:41:27,080
Speaker 21: tie center left governments in Latin America, where you know,

2775
02:41:27,240 --> 02:41:29,960
Speaker 21: Lula has traditionally been the one who's been sort of

2776
02:41:30,800 --> 02:41:35,440
Speaker 21: playing with the US more. And you know, as we're saying,

2777
02:41:35,520 --> 02:41:39,840
Speaker 21: right now, you have the US gearing up for, you know,

2778
02:41:40,160 --> 02:41:44,200
Speaker 21: like potentially a war in Venezuela, and there's been a

2779
02:41:44,240 --> 02:41:46,680
Speaker 21: whole bunch of conflict with Columbia. But Lula seems to

2780
02:41:46,760 --> 02:41:49,280
Speaker 21: be trying to sort of play the role that he

2781
02:41:49,560 --> 02:41:52,720
Speaker 21: played in the two thousands. We'll see how that goes.

2782
02:41:53,520 --> 02:41:57,879
Speaker 21: Trump is astonishingly significantly more unstable than George W. Bush,

2783
02:41:57,959 --> 02:42:04,480
Speaker 21: which is just good lord, oh god, okay, with enough,

2784
02:42:05,000 --> 02:42:07,240
Speaker 21: Oh my god. They finally found a president who is

2785
02:42:07,720 --> 02:42:10,360
Speaker 21: less coherent and more unhinged than George W.

2786
02:42:10,560 --> 02:42:10,840
Speaker 3: Bush.

2787
02:42:11,800 --> 02:42:13,440
Speaker 21: The final piece of news that we need to touch

2788
02:42:13,520 --> 02:42:17,840
Speaker 21: on is the US is chief trade negotiator gave an

2789
02:42:17,879 --> 02:42:21,640
Speaker 21: interview with Politico, and this is Perya who News basically

2790
02:42:21,879 --> 02:42:25,240
Speaker 21: talked to Politico and told them that Trump is considering,

2791
02:42:25,920 --> 02:42:29,240
Speaker 21: you know, is talking about leaving or renegotiating the USMCA,

2792
02:42:29,879 --> 02:42:33,760
Speaker 21: which is the trade agreements that he negotiated to replace

2793
02:42:33,920 --> 02:42:35,560
Speaker 21: NAFTA in twenty twenty.

2794
02:42:36,160 --> 02:42:37,120
Speaker 1: Roll this back again.

2795
02:42:37,480 --> 02:42:38,280
Speaker 3: This is his deal.

2796
02:42:38,520 --> 02:42:42,080
Speaker 22: He's talking about leaving or renegotiating his deal. This was

2797
02:42:42,160 --> 02:42:43,800
Speaker 22: his big thing in twenty twenty is big. One of

2798
02:42:43,840 --> 02:42:46,000
Speaker 22: his big things was, oh I abolished NAFTA. Oh I

2799
02:42:46,080 --> 02:42:47,920
Speaker 22: created this deal, and you know, I've one at the

2800
02:42:47,959 --> 02:42:49,920
Speaker 22: time was like, well, this is just like NAFTA with

2801
02:42:50,080 --> 02:42:52,360
Speaker 22: like the edges filed off, you know, but like this

2802
02:42:52,520 --> 02:42:54,640
Speaker 22: is sort of the point that we're at in Trumpian

2803
02:42:54,680 --> 02:42:57,360
Speaker 22: trade policy where it's like, ah, we're getting ripped off

2804
02:42:57,400 --> 02:42:59,920
Speaker 22: by Mexico and Canada in the trade deal that I saw.

2805
02:43:00,000 --> 02:43:03,480
Speaker 22: And as Garrison is fond of saying, the defining political

2806
02:43:03,560 --> 02:43:05,600
Speaker 22: question of our times, he was president in twenty twenty.

2807
02:43:05,920 --> 02:43:09,000
Speaker 21: Brother, you you did this, this this this was your

2808
02:43:09,080 --> 02:43:13,880
Speaker 21: trade deal, and somehow, somehow now you know, into in

2809
02:43:13,959 --> 02:43:17,800
Speaker 21: terms of real terms, right, this is actually a massive deal.

2810
02:43:18,360 --> 02:43:20,360
Speaker 21: So this deal has a six year term. It was

2811
02:43:20,440 --> 02:43:22,760
Speaker 21: negotiated in twenty twenty, which means just coming up next year.

2812
02:43:23,720 --> 02:43:26,760
Speaker 21: And this is a big enough deal that there's already

2813
02:43:26,879 --> 02:43:28,960
Speaker 21: sort of a full court press and the press. You

2814
02:43:29,000 --> 02:43:31,720
Speaker 21: can see the New York Times running it where every

2815
02:43:32,120 --> 02:43:35,000
Speaker 21: single faction of capital nhsicle fashion, but a whole bunch

2816
02:43:35,000 --> 02:43:36,800
Speaker 21: of factions of the capital are getting every single think

2817
02:43:36,840 --> 02:43:39,480
Speaker 21: tank and lobbying group and you know, like Policy Research

2818
02:43:39,520 --> 02:43:41,720
Speaker 21: Institute or whatever together to be like, please don't get

2819
02:43:41,800 --> 02:43:45,360
Speaker 21: rid of this. Because the thing about the us MCA,

2820
02:43:45,760 --> 02:43:48,280
Speaker 21: and this something we've talked about to some extent in

2821
02:43:48,400 --> 02:43:52,440
Speaker 21: terms of Canada and Mexico tariffs. But one of the

2822
02:43:52,520 --> 02:43:55,320
Speaker 21: really important things about the teriffs that have been imposed

2823
02:43:55,440 --> 02:43:57,760
Speaker 21: on Mexico and Canada on the terrorifraces are extremely high,

2824
02:43:58,760 --> 02:44:02,680
Speaker 21: is that those tariffs haven't been applied to goods that

2825
02:44:02,840 --> 02:44:05,880
Speaker 21: are covered by the USMCA. And this has been a

2826
02:44:05,920 --> 02:44:08,600
Speaker 21: crucial lifeline to allow trade to not be annihilated by

2827
02:44:08,640 --> 02:44:11,720
Speaker 21: those American tariffs. And if Trump pulls out of it

2828
02:44:11,879 --> 02:44:15,000
Speaker 21: and suddenly those goods are covered by these tariffs. It's

2829
02:44:15,040 --> 02:44:18,720
Speaker 21: going to be a really really significant economic hit for

2830
02:44:19,240 --> 02:44:24,440
Speaker 21: everyone in the world eventually, but for the US and

2831
02:44:25,360 --> 02:44:27,800
Speaker 21: Mexico and Canada, this is going to be a massive deal.

2832
02:44:28,520 --> 02:44:31,200
Speaker 21: And I want to kind of close on a kind

2833
02:44:31,240 --> 02:44:33,360
Speaker 21: of broader point about this for a second, which is

2834
02:44:33,440 --> 02:44:37,600
Speaker 21: that like, we're not pro NAFTA, Like no NAFTA was bad.

2835
02:44:37,680 --> 02:44:39,440
Speaker 21: Part of the reason theho administration was able to do

2836
02:44:39,560 --> 02:44:42,840
Speaker 21: this was because of the ways that NAFTA sort of

2837
02:44:43,120 --> 02:44:45,760
Speaker 21: hauled out and destroyed fast sections of the American working

2838
02:44:45,800 --> 02:44:48,240
Speaker 21: class and also the Mexican working classes has not been

2839
02:44:48,320 --> 02:44:51,080
Speaker 21: good for anyone really involved in this. One of the

2840
02:44:51,120 --> 02:44:52,680
Speaker 21: things that happens if you if you go into the

2841
02:44:52,720 --> 02:44:55,600
Speaker 21: economic literature. One of the episodes I did a while

2842
02:44:55,680 --> 02:44:59,600
Speaker 21: back talking about US and Mexico in history of like

2843
02:44:59,680 --> 02:45:03,080
Speaker 21: trade policy, they're sort of talks about this, which is

2844
02:45:03,120 --> 02:45:05,640
Speaker 21: that if you go back into the economic literature, all

2845
02:45:05,680 --> 02:45:08,280
Speaker 21: of the economics people have had to admit that the

2846
02:45:08,520 --> 02:45:11,240
Speaker 21: leftists from the nineties or whatever were right that this

2847
02:45:11,400 --> 02:45:13,560
Speaker 21: was not going to benefit the Mexican working class. It hasn't,

2848
02:45:14,320 --> 02:45:16,000
Speaker 21: you know. But on the other hand, Trump's sort of

2849
02:45:16,959 --> 02:45:20,520
Speaker 21: this is also not benefiting the Mexican or American working classes.

2850
02:45:21,760 --> 02:45:24,720
Speaker 21: Nothing that these people do on either side really do.

2851
02:45:24,800 --> 02:45:26,200
Speaker 21: If you want to look at what actual sort of

2852
02:45:26,280 --> 02:45:29,800
Speaker 21: resistance in NAFTA looks like, and what effective resistance NAFTA

2853
02:45:29,800 --> 02:45:33,320
Speaker 21: looks like, look at the Zapatistas whose rebellion was sparked

2854
02:45:33,520 --> 02:45:36,200
Speaker 21: by NAFTA and who went into revolt on the day

2855
02:45:36,200 --> 02:45:38,920
Speaker 21: that NAFTA went into effect. But Trump has been able

2856
02:45:38,959 --> 02:45:42,880
Speaker 21: to very effectively kind of be the person who comes

2857
02:45:42,959 --> 02:45:46,680
Speaker 21: in as I'm the champion of the workers, etc.

2858
02:45:46,920 --> 02:45:47,080
Speaker 3: Etc.

2859
02:45:47,440 --> 02:45:50,520
Speaker 21: Because I'm renegotiating the evil trade deals and now like

2860
02:45:50,600 --> 02:45:52,959
Speaker 21: our good American workers would no longer be exploited by

2861
02:45:53,040 --> 02:45:56,960
Speaker 21: like evil Mexican or Chinese workers, which you know, has

2862
02:45:57,000 --> 02:45:59,280
Speaker 21: been an extremely effective political strategy for him, and is

2863
02:45:59,440 --> 02:46:01,520
Speaker 21: you know, awsome. So this sort of this sort of

2864
02:46:01,600 --> 02:46:07,360
Speaker 21: like national fascist program that he's running is sort of

2865
02:46:07,480 --> 02:46:09,959
Speaker 21: based on, you know, on this kind of trade policy

2866
02:46:09,959 --> 02:46:12,040
Speaker 21: and on manipulating the sentiments of people who got like

2867
02:46:12,560 --> 02:46:16,879
Speaker 21: actually screwed over by by NAFTA. So yeah, that's where

2868
02:46:16,879 --> 02:46:18,560
Speaker 21: we're gonna kind of close on this. As Trump is

2869
02:46:18,600 --> 02:46:23,160
Speaker 21: thinking about pulling out that is a huge deal. And yeah,

2870
02:46:23,200 --> 02:46:24,080
Speaker 21: this has been teriff talk.

2871
02:46:25,360 --> 02:46:27,320
Speaker 1: Let's let's go to an ad break real quick. We'll

2872
02:46:27,320 --> 02:46:44,360
Speaker 1: be right back, and we're back, Arison, tell me, tell

2873
02:46:44,440 --> 02:46:47,080
Speaker 1: me something less horrific than what James just told us

2874
02:46:47,640 --> 02:46:49,320
Speaker 1: before me as tariff textion.

2875
02:46:49,520 --> 02:46:52,480
Speaker 3: I missed a pot. I missed a pot. Okay, do

2876
02:46:52,520 --> 02:46:53,959
Speaker 3: you do? You want to guess how they were making

2877
02:46:54,040 --> 02:46:56,000
Speaker 3: money for part of this and cording to the indictment,

2878
02:46:56,879 --> 02:46:58,800
Speaker 3: this is the Texas many why's been made the island?

2879
02:46:59,080 --> 02:46:59,960
Speaker 3: How are they making money?

2880
02:47:00,200 --> 02:47:00,600
Speaker 1: Crypto?

2881
02:47:01,120 --> 02:47:03,200
Speaker 3: No, it's worse than that. That's a good guest, Sophie.

2882
02:47:04,000 --> 02:47:04,120
Speaker 16: Mm.

2883
02:47:05,080 --> 02:47:06,320
Speaker 19: But you've said it's worse than that.

2884
02:47:06,640 --> 02:47:09,840
Speaker 1: Oh no, manipulating camgirls.

2885
02:47:09,840 --> 02:47:13,680
Speaker 3: In a sense, it appears they were producing child sexual

2886
02:47:13,720 --> 02:47:14,640
Speaker 3: abuse material.

2887
02:47:14,840 --> 02:47:21,080
Speaker 23: Oh yeah, wow, this is I mean, obviously it's still allegedly,

2888
02:47:21,160 --> 02:47:23,200
Speaker 23: but like, this is one of the worst things I've

2889
02:47:23,320 --> 02:47:25,520
Speaker 23: ever heard, and I don't even know how to react.

2890
02:47:26,360 --> 02:47:26,560
Speaker 15: Huh.

2891
02:47:26,920 --> 02:47:29,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was he received he was prosecuted under U

2892
02:47:29,520 --> 02:47:35,160
Speaker 3: C mjuh for that previously this year. Yeah, I was

2893
02:47:35,240 --> 02:47:39,440
Speaker 3: prosecuted in Uh. I'm just reading a Task and Purpose

2894
02:47:39,560 --> 02:47:41,480
Speaker 3: article which builds in the indictment. But the it says,

2895
02:47:42,680 --> 02:47:46,320
Speaker 3: so he's arrested in July and has since been court martialed. Ah,

2896
02:47:47,360 --> 02:47:51,320
Speaker 3: so good times, good times in the air the Air Force.

2897
02:47:52,040 --> 02:47:55,680
Speaker 19: Yeah, well I can't I can't believe the Air Force

2898
02:47:55,760 --> 02:47:59,280
Speaker 19: has done something wrong. Yeah, finally the first blaze on

2899
02:47:59,400 --> 02:48:05,879
Speaker 19: are prouder glorious Air Force. Maybe the biggest national news

2900
02:48:06,240 --> 02:48:10,000
Speaker 19: story kicked off the day before Thanksgiving, not just because

2901
02:48:10,200 --> 02:48:13,600
Speaker 19: of what happened, but then all of the fallout that

2902
02:48:13,720 --> 02:48:17,959
Speaker 19: has resulted from this incident, which James will report on afterwards.

2903
02:48:18,000 --> 02:48:21,160
Speaker 19: But let's go back to the day before Thanksgiving where

2904
02:48:21,200 --> 02:48:24,560
Speaker 19: two National Guard troops from West Virginia on assignment in Washington,

2905
02:48:24,640 --> 02:48:27,200
Speaker 19: d C. It's a part of Trump's crime crackdown were

2906
02:48:27,280 --> 02:48:30,840
Speaker 19: shot on patrol a few blocks away from the White House.

2907
02:48:31,480 --> 02:48:35,360
Speaker 19: Other Guard members fired back and tackled the shooter. One

2908
02:48:35,400 --> 02:48:37,440
Speaker 19: of the National Guard members, a twenty year old named

2909
02:48:37,520 --> 02:48:42,160
Speaker 19: Sarah Beckstrom, died from gunshot injuries on Thanksgiving. The other,

2910
02:48:42,520 --> 02:48:45,840
Speaker 19: twenty four year old Andrew Wolfe, has so far survived

2911
02:48:46,160 --> 02:48:47,440
Speaker 19: remains hospitalized.

2912
02:48:48,120 --> 02:48:48,360
Speaker 5: Wow.

2913
02:48:48,879 --> 02:48:49,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2914
02:48:49,800 --> 02:48:54,680
Speaker 19: A twenty nine year old man, Romanula Locknwall is charged

2915
02:48:54,760 --> 02:48:57,520
Speaker 19: with first degree murder and assault with intent to kill.

2916
02:48:58,200 --> 02:49:01,840
Speaker 19: The criminal complaint alleges he shouted a la akbar as

2917
02:49:01,920 --> 02:49:05,200
Speaker 19: he fired Lockawall came to the United States as a

2918
02:49:05,240 --> 02:49:08,960
Speaker 19: part of Operation Allies Welcome in twenty twenty one, which

2919
02:49:09,040 --> 02:49:11,800
Speaker 19: moved US assets out of Afghanistan as the Taliban gain

2920
02:49:11,879 --> 02:49:16,000
Speaker 19: control of the region. Lockinwall was later granted formal asylum

2921
02:49:16,280 --> 02:49:20,440
Speaker 19: under Trump. This past April, friend of the alleged shooter

2922
02:49:20,560 --> 02:49:23,400
Speaker 19: told The New York Times that Lockerwall joined the CIA

2923
02:49:23,600 --> 02:49:27,760
Speaker 19: backed paramilitary squad Unit zero three to earn money for

2924
02:49:28,080 --> 02:49:32,400
Speaker 19: his family and get medical training, rather than for ideological reasons,

2925
02:49:32,680 --> 02:49:35,520
Speaker 19: and when he returned from stints with the zero Unit,

2926
02:49:35,920 --> 02:49:39,760
Speaker 19: his personality changed and he was less socially outgoing. To

2927
02:49:39,879 --> 02:49:43,080
Speaker 19: quote from the Times quote, Blockenwall told others in his

2928
02:49:43,280 --> 02:49:45,840
Speaker 19: village that he had been shaken by seeing so many

2929
02:49:45,920 --> 02:49:47,280
Speaker 19: bodies and bloodshed in.

2930
02:49:47,320 --> 02:49:50,440
Speaker 3: His role with the zero three unit. Quote.

2931
02:49:51,480 --> 02:49:54,959
Speaker 19: According to a volunteer who worked with his family, Blockenwall's

2932
02:49:55,000 --> 02:49:58,320
Speaker 19: mental health started rapidly declining in early twenty twenty three.

2933
02:49:58,800 --> 02:50:02,279
Speaker 19: He begun self isolated, withdrawing from work and family, stopped

2934
02:50:02,320 --> 02:50:06,360
Speaker 19: paying rent, and faced deviction in twenty twenty four. This

2935
02:50:06,480 --> 02:50:09,360
Speaker 19: volunteer wrote in an email to an immigrant nonprofit group,

2936
02:50:09,520 --> 02:50:11,520
Speaker 19: which was obtained by the AP In the New York Times,

2937
02:50:11,920 --> 02:50:15,119
Speaker 19: which reads that lock Andwell quote has not been functional

2938
02:50:15,160 --> 02:50:18,680
Speaker 19: as a person, father and provider since March of last year,

2939
02:50:19,240 --> 02:50:24,800
Speaker 19: twenty three. His behavior has changed greatly unquote. When Lockwell

2940
02:50:24,879 --> 02:50:28,359
Speaker 19: emerged from quote unquote dark isolation, it was to engage

2941
02:50:28,360 --> 02:50:32,240
Speaker 19: in quote unquote reckless travel, according to this volunteer, long

2942
02:50:32,440 --> 02:50:35,560
Speaker 19: seemingly pointless road trips across the country.

2943
02:50:36,240 --> 02:50:39,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he seems to be behaving in a way that,

2944
02:50:39,600 --> 02:50:42,840
Speaker 3: like you said, suggest he has some PTSD or.

2945
02:50:43,000 --> 02:50:46,160
Speaker 19: Like no PTSD from engaging in combat. This is very

2946
02:50:46,160 --> 02:50:50,160
Speaker 19: common among veterans and mental health support for specifically these

2947
02:50:50,240 --> 02:50:53,920
Speaker 19: people in this in this paramilitary unit probably doesn't exist, right,

2948
02:50:53,959 --> 02:50:56,199
Speaker 19: does not exist the same way it does for veterans

2949
02:50:56,560 --> 02:50:59,279
Speaker 19: of the United States military, which already is a lacking service.

2950
02:50:59,520 --> 02:51:02,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's that. Yeah, I mean these the ship

2951
02:51:02,240 --> 02:51:05,720
Speaker 3: that these guys did was dark. I've included in the

2952
02:51:05,879 --> 02:51:07,640
Speaker 3: in the show notes a linked to a Human Rights

2953
02:51:07,680 --> 02:51:10,600
Speaker 3: Watch report. But like, there's a reason that they weren't

2954
02:51:11,200 --> 02:51:15,680
Speaker 3: specifically under In theory, they were under the Afghan Ministry

2955
02:51:15,680 --> 02:51:19,080
Speaker 3: of Defense Command, but in practice they operated outside either

2956
02:51:19,160 --> 02:51:22,320
Speaker 3: chain of control. They did kill or capture missions. There

2957
02:51:22,320 --> 02:51:26,280
Speaker 3: are multiple reports of them killing everybody in a house

2958
02:51:26,800 --> 02:51:30,920
Speaker 3: and then it being the wrong house. Like really, stuff

2959
02:51:31,680 --> 02:51:33,720
Speaker 3: that is going to stay with someone, right and unless

2960
02:51:33,760 --> 02:51:38,880
Speaker 3: they're like, you know, pretty nuts, No, extremely horrifying, Yeah,

2961
02:51:39,520 --> 02:51:45,920
Speaker 3: terrifying stuff. Pretty much immediately after, the Trump administration began

2962
02:51:46,800 --> 02:51:52,120
Speaker 3: calling for various immigration restrictions based on this. Right Now,

2963
02:51:52,400 --> 02:51:56,279
Speaker 3: it's worth noting that luck Andwell entered the United States

2964
02:51:56,280 --> 02:51:58,960
Speaker 3: as part of Operation Allied Welcome, right, but then he

2965
02:51:59,080 --> 02:52:03,920
Speaker 3: received US asylum under the Trump administration, so that would

2966
02:52:03,959 --> 02:52:07,520
Speaker 3: have been this year, right, Like, I'm not entirely sure

2967
02:52:07,560 --> 02:52:09,960
Speaker 3: why he went asylum rather than a special immigrant visa,

2968
02:52:10,520 --> 02:52:12,960
Speaker 3: but both the pathways that are opened to Afghan people, right,

2969
02:52:13,520 --> 02:52:16,760
Speaker 3: SIV has some benefits, but also it had some different

2970
02:52:16,800 --> 02:52:19,040
Speaker 3: things that they'd have to jump through, Like one of

2971
02:52:19,080 --> 02:52:21,480
Speaker 3: them would be a believe to get an officer to

2972
02:52:21,560 --> 02:52:25,480
Speaker 3: write a recommendation and maybe CIA folks on into doing that.

2973
02:52:26,200 --> 02:52:29,720
Speaker 3: So following this, the US immediately began to call for

2974
02:52:29,800 --> 02:52:32,720
Speaker 3: a crackdown on Afghan migrants. And as we'll see more

2975
02:52:32,800 --> 02:52:35,960
Speaker 3: broadly on migrants. I think it's important to contextualize this

2976
02:52:36,120 --> 02:52:39,840
Speaker 3: globally because it's part of a crackdown on a nation

2977
02:52:40,120 --> 02:52:42,280
Speaker 3: which is seen nearly half a century of war. Right,

2978
02:52:43,000 --> 02:52:46,440
Speaker 3: ninety percent of the ten million people who fled Afghanistan

2979
02:52:46,520 --> 02:52:50,640
Speaker 3: reside in Pakistan or Iran. I've reported on this before

2980
02:52:50,720 --> 02:52:53,400
Speaker 3: on this show, but Iran has deported more than a

2981
02:52:53,520 --> 02:52:58,320
Speaker 3: million Afghan people since twenty twenty three, right, and they

2982
02:52:59,120 --> 02:53:04,560
Speaker 3: have very few pathways to permanent residency anywhere. Among refugees,

2983
02:53:04,560 --> 02:53:08,840
Speaker 3: Afghan people have it particularly difficult. On Tuesday, the us

2984
02:53:09,240 --> 02:53:13,760
Speaker 3: CIS Citizenship and Immigration Services issued a memo ordering its

2985
02:53:13,800 --> 02:53:17,240
Speaker 3: employees to place on hold all asylum, green card and

2986
02:53:17,440 --> 02:53:23,480
Speaker 3: citizenship form applications from quote unquote high risk countries and

2987
02:53:23,600 --> 02:53:27,039
Speaker 3: to investigate all arrivals from them since twenty twenty one.

2988
02:53:27,800 --> 02:53:31,520
Speaker 3: They are also placing a hold on all forms I

2989
02:53:31,680 --> 02:53:34,640
Speaker 3: five eight nine, which is the application for asylum and

2990
02:53:34,800 --> 02:53:37,840
Speaker 3: for withholding of for removal, regardless of where the person

2991
02:53:37,959 --> 02:53:44,640
Speaker 3: is from. So we have this specific halt on asylum

2992
02:53:44,800 --> 02:53:47,720
Speaker 3: for Afghan nationals that comes first, and then following that

2993
02:53:48,400 --> 02:53:51,760
Speaker 3: we have these nineteen high risk countries. The high risk

2994
02:53:51,800 --> 02:53:55,119
Speaker 3: countries are listed in Presidential Proclamation one oh nine four nine,

2995
02:53:55,240 --> 02:53:58,080
Speaker 3: which was issue back in June. I'll just read out

2996
02:53:58,120 --> 02:54:01,520
Speaker 3: the name, so people who are aware Afghanistan Burma, Chad,

2997
02:54:01,600 --> 02:54:09,279
Speaker 3: Republic of the Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Haiti, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, Barundi, Cuba, Laos,

2998
02:54:09,320 --> 02:54:14,720
Speaker 3: Sierra Leone, Togo, Tookmenistan, and Venezuela. If you recall us

2999
02:54:14,840 --> 02:54:17,960
Speaker 3: covering this back, then you will remember that the reason

3000
02:54:18,200 --> 02:54:24,560
Speaker 3: cited in that proclamation is percentage of visa overstays. This

3001
02:54:24,720 --> 02:54:27,680
Speaker 3: doesn't have anything to do with risk, right, other than

3002
02:54:27,840 --> 02:54:32,160
Speaker 3: risk of overstaying one's visa. They do not justify the

3003
02:54:32,320 --> 02:54:37,480
Speaker 3: inclusion of these countries based on the potential for people

3004
02:54:37,600 --> 02:54:41,520
Speaker 3: there to do terrorism, right, at least not all of them. Yeah,

3005
02:54:41,800 --> 02:54:44,240
Speaker 3: it's worth pointing out. I guess that percentages visa overstates

3006
02:54:44,280 --> 02:54:46,560
Speaker 3: isn't that useful of a figure, because if you have

3007
02:54:46,720 --> 02:54:49,920
Speaker 3: ten people and one over stays, then that's only one person,

3008
02:54:50,000 --> 02:54:52,200
Speaker 3: But it's also a ten percent overstay rate, right, so

3009
02:54:52,640 --> 02:54:57,119
Speaker 3: it doesn't look at like raw numbers. Nonetheless, this would

3010
02:54:57,280 --> 02:55:02,000
Speaker 3: mean from the way I'm reading it, that any application

3011
02:55:02,280 --> 02:55:05,680
Speaker 3: with these people on it might be paused. So that

3012
02:55:05,760 --> 02:55:09,840
Speaker 3: could include like if someone had applied to have a

3013
02:55:09,959 --> 02:55:13,360
Speaker 3: spouse or family member come over and obtain legal status, right,

3014
02:55:14,120 --> 02:55:16,120
Speaker 3: or if someone was sponsoring someone or they were a

3015
02:55:16,240 --> 02:55:19,720
Speaker 3: duel national. They're like a bor Indian American for example.

3016
02:55:20,400 --> 02:55:22,960
Speaker 3: We will see how long this lasts. Trump has previously

3017
02:55:23,080 --> 02:55:27,240
Speaker 3: failed to get a total asylum ban, but for the meantime,

3018
02:55:27,400 --> 02:55:30,800
Speaker 3: like this is catastrophic for people attempting to seek asylum

3019
02:55:31,040 --> 02:55:34,200
Speaker 3: or permanent residency in the US. The only sort of

3020
02:55:34,280 --> 02:55:37,080
Speaker 3: upside that I can see on upside, but like you know,

3021
02:55:37,320 --> 02:55:39,520
Speaker 3: not terrible thing is that I don't think this would

3022
02:55:39,520 --> 02:55:41,760
Speaker 3: pause the work permit clock. So people have been listening

3023
02:55:41,800 --> 02:55:43,959
Speaker 3: to my series this week, they will have learned about

3024
02:55:43,959 --> 02:55:46,720
Speaker 3: the work permit clock. Right, because this is a government action,

3025
02:55:46,959 --> 02:55:49,320
Speaker 3: not an action from individuals. I don't think it would

3026
02:55:49,320 --> 02:55:53,200
Speaker 3: pause that clock. I guess to just wrap up the

3027
02:55:53,680 --> 02:55:58,360
Speaker 3: migrant crackdown stuff, Trump announced via a truth that quote,

3028
02:55:58,800 --> 02:56:01,760
Speaker 3: I am, as President of the United States here by terminating,

3029
02:56:01,800 --> 02:56:06,720
Speaker 3: effective immediately, the Temporary Protected Status program for Somalis in Minnesota.

3030
02:56:07,320 --> 02:56:10,560
Speaker 3: In the Thanksgiving message, he also repeated a number of

3031
02:56:11,520 --> 02:56:15,800
Speaker 3: claims about migrants and used a slurt to described him Walls. Yeah,

3032
02:56:15,879 --> 02:56:17,400
Speaker 3: he called him R word, and I think it is

3033
02:56:17,440 --> 02:56:21,080
Speaker 3: worth saying. Yeah. He has reiterated this multiple times on

3034
02:56:21,280 --> 02:56:24,680
Speaker 3: camera when Aspire reporters. Yeah, great stuff. And this is.

3035
02:56:24,640 --> 02:56:26,880
Speaker 19: Specifically in reference to reporting which has come out of

3036
02:56:26,959 --> 02:56:31,880
Speaker 19: Minnesota about a series of like fraudulent claims based on

3037
02:56:32,240 --> 02:56:36,240
Speaker 19: like COVID nineteen food and housing assistance programs this state

3038
02:56:36,360 --> 02:56:39,720
Speaker 19: was running, and people who were abusing those programs for

3039
02:56:39,840 --> 02:56:43,879
Speaker 19: their own financial benefit, and some of these specific instances

3040
02:56:43,920 --> 02:56:46,279
Speaker 19: are now being used to attack the entire Somali community

3041
02:56:46,440 --> 02:56:47,120
Speaker 19: in Minnesota.

3042
02:56:47,600 --> 02:56:50,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's worth noting that the percentage of the Somali

3043
02:56:50,080 --> 02:56:53,840
Speaker 3: community which is on TPS is very small. It's probably

3044
02:56:53,879 --> 02:56:56,560
Speaker 3: a few hundred people. I don't know how those COVID

3045
02:56:56,560 --> 02:57:00,080
Speaker 3: assistance programs like overlap with once immigration status, right, but

3046
02:57:00,520 --> 02:57:03,400
Speaker 3: it's worth noting that. It's also worth noting, like I've

3047
02:57:03,480 --> 02:57:06,240
Speaker 3: linked to the statue in the show notes, the Somali

3048
02:57:06,320 --> 02:57:09,760
Speaker 3: TPS extends until March of twenty twenty six. It probably

3049
02:57:09,760 --> 02:57:12,199
Speaker 3: won't be renewed then, Right, That's what the Trump administration

3050
02:57:12,320 --> 02:57:15,440
Speaker 3: has been doing, is sunsetting TPS is for all kinds

3051
02:57:15,480 --> 02:57:18,600
Speaker 3: of people. The statute does not give the president power

3052
02:57:19,120 --> 02:57:21,840
Speaker 3: to end the TPS, certainly not on a state by

3053
02:57:21,959 --> 02:57:26,480
Speaker 3: state basis. Right. Yeah, that's a good point. The notice

3054
02:57:26,520 --> 02:57:29,360
Speaker 3: of revocation would appear in the Federal Register, and the

3055
02:57:29,480 --> 02:57:32,600
Speaker 3: TPS would then have sixty days if it was being revoked,

3056
02:57:32,600 --> 02:57:34,840
Speaker 3: that people would have sixty days to act on that information. Right,

3057
02:57:35,120 --> 02:57:37,720
Speaker 3: you can't just post it. That's not how this works.

3058
02:57:38,480 --> 02:57:41,000
Speaker 3: As of today, when I check the Federal Register, the

3059
02:57:41,120 --> 02:57:44,959
Speaker 3: last entry for the Somali TPS with its renewal last year.

3060
02:57:45,400 --> 02:57:47,440
Speaker 3: So there appears to have been no actual legal action

3061
02:57:47,600 --> 02:57:51,560
Speaker 3: taken on this, But nonetheless there has been ICE enforcement.

3062
02:57:51,680 --> 02:57:54,560
Speaker 3: Right there are videos of ICE officers specifically asking people

3063
02:57:54,600 --> 02:57:59,160
Speaker 3: if they are Somali in Minnesota, which is troubling. I

3064
02:57:59,240 --> 02:58:02,080
Speaker 3: think that's about all the ICE crackdown stuff. I have

3065
02:58:02,480 --> 02:58:06,119
Speaker 3: guess Greg Bavino's in Louisiana, I don't know. So there's

3066
02:58:06,160 --> 02:58:10,000
Speaker 3: been a lot of discussion this week and House hearings

3067
02:58:10,320 --> 02:58:14,640
Speaker 3: about the drone strike that began the United States campaign

3068
02:58:14,680 --> 02:58:18,959
Speaker 3: of drone strikes against small boats in both the Caribbean

3069
02:58:19,000 --> 02:58:23,400
Speaker 3: and the Pacific. Right so called narco terrorists jam yeah,

3070
02:58:23,959 --> 02:58:25,960
Speaker 3: so yeah, I think so called is doing a lot

3071
02:58:26,000 --> 02:58:27,920
Speaker 3: of work there. There seems to be a lot of

3072
02:58:27,959 --> 02:58:32,480
Speaker 3: debate about whether Pete Hegscess directly ordered a second strike

3073
02:58:32,600 --> 02:58:37,560
Speaker 3: on survivors from the first strike. Excess had denied this, saying, quote,

3074
02:58:37,879 --> 02:58:40,520
Speaker 3: the thing was on fire and it exploded. You can't

3075
02:58:40,560 --> 02:58:43,800
Speaker 3: see anything. This is called the fog of war. That's

3076
02:58:43,920 --> 02:58:47,080
Speaker 3: not the fog before yet. It's nobody means you're not

3077
02:58:47,240 --> 02:58:50,240
Speaker 3: at war. You're in a suit in a room watching

3078
02:58:50,320 --> 02:58:51,320
Speaker 3: a TV screen.

3079
02:58:51,680 --> 02:58:55,560
Speaker 19: Also, it doesn't revert to like literal smoke edge fog.

3080
02:58:55,720 --> 02:58:57,240
Speaker 19: I'm sorry, and this is like absurd.

3081
02:58:57,879 --> 02:59:00,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a ludicrous claim, right. Yes, there have been

3082
02:59:00,959 --> 02:59:03,080
Speaker 3: times where I have been in places like for instance,

3083
02:59:03,120 --> 02:59:04,840
Speaker 3: I was in Java a couple of years ago and

3084
02:59:04,879 --> 02:59:07,040
Speaker 3: we were being bombed. Right the way for me to

3085
02:59:07,080 --> 02:59:09,440
Speaker 3: get information, it was better for me to like go

3086
02:59:09,600 --> 02:59:12,560
Speaker 3: online and find stuff because the access to information on

3087
02:59:12,600 --> 02:59:15,400
Speaker 3: the ground in conflict times can be difficult. That's not

3088
02:59:15,480 --> 02:59:18,280
Speaker 3: the case when you're in DC watching a screen readout right.

3089
02:59:18,920 --> 02:59:21,360
Speaker 3: That is why we have people who are not in

3090
02:59:21,480 --> 02:59:25,280
Speaker 3: combat making these decisions. The White House has claimed that

3091
02:59:25,320 --> 02:59:28,640
Speaker 3: Admiral Bradley, who was JSOCK commander at the time, ordered

3092
02:59:28,760 --> 02:59:32,120
Speaker 3: the strike to Cotton Today claimed that two people in

3093
02:59:32,200 --> 02:59:34,920
Speaker 3: the video were trying to roll the boat to get

3094
02:59:35,000 --> 02:59:37,520
Speaker 3: back in the fight. What that's not a thing that

3095
02:59:37,680 --> 02:59:39,680
Speaker 3: one can do, like they're not in just to be

3096
02:59:39,760 --> 02:59:42,400
Speaker 3: clear they're not in like a kayak here, like this

3097
02:59:42,520 --> 02:59:44,360
Speaker 3: is in what I would call a cigarette boat, like

3098
02:59:44,760 --> 02:59:47,960
Speaker 3: a fast speedboat. You can't roll those like that.

3099
02:59:48,600 --> 02:59:53,000
Speaker 19: I don't understand they were not engaged in combat.

3100
02:59:53,320 --> 02:59:55,760
Speaker 3: No, Like, I don't see any evidence that these people

3101
02:59:55,920 --> 02:59:59,120
Speaker 3: were equipped to like certainly not to fight against a drone.

3102
02:59:59,680 --> 02:59:59,840
Speaker 18: Right.

3103
03:00:00,600 --> 03:00:02,879
Speaker 3: No, Why does this matter?

3104
03:00:03,000 --> 03:00:03,080
Speaker 15: Right?

3105
03:00:03,120 --> 03:00:05,879
Speaker 3: Because these people are dead regardless.

3106
03:00:06,120 --> 03:00:06,280
Speaker 16: Yeah.

3107
03:00:06,600 --> 03:00:11,400
Speaker 19: Why does the emphasis on this second strike matter more

3108
03:00:11,720 --> 03:00:15,040
Speaker 19: than simply attacking them the first time? Why is could

3109
03:00:15,080 --> 03:00:18,080
Speaker 19: this result in haig Seth being in yea a degree

3110
03:00:18,160 --> 03:00:20,440
Speaker 19: of trouble? Why there's a defensive about this second strike?

3111
03:00:20,959 --> 03:00:23,840
Speaker 3: Fair question? It is a very clear violation of the

3112
03:00:23,959 --> 03:00:26,280
Speaker 3: US military's own Law of War manual, which I have

3113
03:00:26,400 --> 03:00:29,520
Speaker 3: linked and the Geneva Conventions to kill someone who's demonstrably

3114
03:00:30,240 --> 03:00:33,120
Speaker 3: order to combat right out of combat i e. A

3115
03:00:33,200 --> 03:00:36,520
Speaker 3: shipwrecked sailor, i e. A wounded soldier who's thrown away

3116
03:00:36,520 --> 03:00:40,440
Speaker 3: their weapon. These people were very clearly not fighting. From

3117
03:00:40,480 --> 03:00:43,080
Speaker 3: every report that we've seen, this has been part of

3118
03:00:43,120 --> 03:00:46,720
Speaker 3: the way that war is conducted for centuries, like picking

3119
03:00:46,800 --> 03:00:49,920
Speaker 3: up shipwrecked sailors after sinking about, etc. I'm not saying

3120
03:00:49,959 --> 03:00:53,160
Speaker 3: this has always happened. The US has done double tap

3121
03:00:53,240 --> 03:00:57,360
Speaker 3: strikes for a long time. Yeah, there has been I

3122
03:00:57,400 --> 03:00:59,600
Speaker 3: should just clarify, guess there has been some debate about

3123
03:00:59,600 --> 03:01:02,920
Speaker 3: the SEMA antics of the word double tap. First of all,

3124
03:01:03,360 --> 03:01:07,000
Speaker 3: that's not important. What is important is that they killed

3125
03:01:07,080 --> 03:01:09,760
Speaker 3: people who were not fighting, who are out of combat,

3126
03:01:09,800 --> 03:01:13,440
Speaker 3: and who are clinging to a burning shipwrecked boat. A

3127
03:01:13,520 --> 03:01:17,920
Speaker 3: double tap does generally refer to a strike and then

3128
03:01:17,959 --> 03:01:20,760
Speaker 3: a subsequent strike which is focused on killing the people

3129
03:01:20,840 --> 03:01:24,040
Speaker 3: who came to rescue the people hitting the first strike.

3130
03:01:24,920 --> 03:01:28,200
Speaker 3: There was no one to rescue these people. But I

3131
03:01:28,560 --> 03:01:32,200
Speaker 3: don't think that, like, that's not what's at stake here, right,

3132
03:01:32,560 --> 03:01:34,840
Speaker 3: That is, it doesn't matter what term we use to

3133
03:01:34,879 --> 03:01:39,000
Speaker 3: describe this other than war crime. There were double taped

3134
03:01:39,080 --> 03:01:40,720
Speaker 3: strikes at the time that I spoke about when I

3135
03:01:40,760 --> 03:01:42,760
Speaker 3: was in ri Java, where they did bomb ambulance crews,

3136
03:01:42,800 --> 03:01:46,240
Speaker 3: and yeah, that shit is absolutely reprehensible. But what happened

3137
03:01:46,280 --> 03:01:49,200
Speaker 3: here is also reprehensible as it's being recounted to us.

3138
03:01:49,320 --> 03:01:52,640
Speaker 3: Eventually this video will come out, I'm sure. More broadly,

3139
03:01:52,720 --> 03:01:55,760
Speaker 3: the United States seems to be signaling intent to continue

3140
03:01:55,840 --> 03:01:59,480
Speaker 3: its campaign against my daughter, saying it will begin land

3141
03:01:59,560 --> 03:02:04,360
Speaker 3: strikes quote unquote soon. What yeah, like this is extremely worrying,

3142
03:02:04,640 --> 03:02:08,320
Speaker 3: right like, yeah, tramp of course a great peace president

3143
03:02:08,400 --> 03:02:10,760
Speaker 3: who has ended what is it like nine wars? Trump

3144
03:02:10,879 --> 03:02:15,440
Speaker 3: the dove, I think is what he personally perfect. It's

3145
03:02:15,480 --> 03:02:19,200
Speaker 3: a hell of a visual. The people of Venezuela are

3146
03:02:19,200 --> 03:02:21,000
Speaker 3: the ones who are going to suffer, right Like, It's

3147
03:02:21,080 --> 03:02:23,840
Speaker 3: not going to be the regime officials for the most part. Yeah,

3148
03:02:24,560 --> 03:02:29,720
Speaker 3: Venezuela's a vast, mountainous jungle country. It's an easy place

3149
03:02:29,840 --> 03:02:33,600
Speaker 3: for us to do land war, not a particularly easy

3150
03:02:33,760 --> 03:02:37,480
Speaker 3: place for US to do drone warfare either. You know,

3151
03:02:37,640 --> 03:02:40,200
Speaker 3: I've written a lot about the United States Duran campaign

3152
03:02:40,280 --> 03:02:42,560
Speaker 3: in Syria and the disaster that was right in the

3153
03:02:42,600 --> 03:02:47,279
Speaker 3: amount of what they considered to be acceptable civilian casualties.

3154
03:02:48,280 --> 03:02:52,000
Speaker 3: We don't have any indications from this DoD or like

3155
03:02:52,240 --> 03:02:54,600
Speaker 3: from HEXF that like he will seek to minimize those

3156
03:02:54,760 --> 03:02:57,320
Speaker 3: right like this this could be shaping up to be

3157
03:02:57,320 --> 03:02:58,960
Speaker 3: a disaster for the people of Venezuela.

3158
03:02:59,400 --> 03:03:01,560
Speaker 19: I mean, yeah, I find it unlike that haig Seth

3159
03:03:01,600 --> 03:03:04,400
Speaker 19: will actually fall into trouble international law because of this.

3160
03:03:04,920 --> 03:03:07,520
Speaker 19: People always get away, and I mean you can see

3161
03:03:07,680 --> 03:03:11,800
Speaker 19: how Trump already pardoned number of work criminals earlier this

3162
03:03:11,959 --> 03:03:14,800
Speaker 19: year and in his first administration, right, and in his

3163
03:03:14,879 --> 03:03:15,760
Speaker 19: first administration.

3164
03:03:16,040 --> 03:03:17,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, as much fun.

3165
03:03:17,280 --> 03:03:20,440
Speaker 19: As it is to be like haha, like this, I

3166
03:03:20,560 --> 03:03:22,760
Speaker 19: like to see old peate haig Seth wiggles way out

3167
03:03:22,760 --> 03:03:23,320
Speaker 19: of this jam.

3168
03:03:23,760 --> 03:03:26,240
Speaker 3: Yes he will. I think he's expected to do so

3169
03:03:26,400 --> 03:03:30,560
Speaker 3: quite easily. I mean international doesn't exist for people in

3170
03:03:30,640 --> 03:03:33,240
Speaker 3: the global North. It's a thing that they do to

3171
03:03:33,320 --> 03:03:36,840
Speaker 3: prosecute African people for the most part. But yes, very

3172
03:03:36,920 --> 03:03:39,600
Speaker 3: unlikely that we will see hag Seth in the Hague

3173
03:03:39,640 --> 03:03:43,440
Speaker 3: for this still bad though. We'll go on another ad

3174
03:03:43,520 --> 03:03:44,600
Speaker 3: break and be right back.

3175
03:03:58,040 --> 03:03:59,280
Speaker 12: All right, we are back.

3176
03:04:00,400 --> 03:04:03,440
Speaker 19: We would like to now expand and clarify some of

3177
03:04:03,560 --> 03:04:08,520
Speaker 19: our previous previous discussion of Zoron's White has meeting with

3178
03:04:08,800 --> 03:04:14,160
Speaker 19: Donald Trump and some statements around ice raids and ice detainers.

3179
03:04:15,040 --> 03:04:18,960
Speaker 19: Let's start by clarifying this one hundred and seventy serious

3180
03:04:19,160 --> 03:04:23,560
Speaker 19: crimes number. Yeah, while answering a question, Zoran said, quote,

3181
03:04:24,040 --> 03:04:26,400
Speaker 19: we discussed ice and New York City, and I spoke

3182
03:04:26,440 --> 03:04:28,640
Speaker 19: about how the laws we have in New York City

3183
03:04:29,040 --> 03:04:31,520
Speaker 19: allowed the city government to speak to the federal administration

3184
03:04:31,680 --> 03:04:36,600
Speaker 19: about roughly one hundred and seventy serious crimes unquote. This

3185
03:04:36,840 --> 03:04:41,400
Speaker 19: one hundred and seventy number is in reference to Local

3186
03:04:41,600 --> 03:04:46,480
Speaker 19: Law fifty eight Administrative Code nine Dash one three to one,

3187
03:04:46,920 --> 03:04:50,760
Speaker 19: which was passed in twenty fourteen and strengthened New York

3188
03:04:50,920 --> 03:04:56,360
Speaker 19: sanctuary laws and required that they only honor ice detainers

3189
03:04:56,440 --> 03:04:59,840
Speaker 19: when presented with the judicial warrant issued by an article

3190
03:04:59,879 --> 03:05:03,840
Speaker 19: time refederal judge or federal magistrate judge based on probable cause,

3191
03:05:04,120 --> 03:05:07,480
Speaker 19: and when the subject of the detainer and warrant is

3192
03:05:07,640 --> 03:05:11,840
Speaker 19: either listed in a terrorist database or has been convicted

3193
03:05:12,600 --> 03:05:17,560
Speaker 19: of a violent or serious crime. Now, the term violent

3194
03:05:17,640 --> 03:05:21,480
Speaker 19: or serious crime refers to a list of approximately one

3195
03:05:21,640 --> 03:05:25,160
Speaker 19: hundred and seventy crimes which is listed in Local Law

3196
03:05:25,280 --> 03:05:28,480
Speaker 19: fifty four. I think there's a five year limit as well, right,

3197
03:05:28,600 --> 03:05:31,879
Speaker 19: Like it has to be within five years. So there's

3198
03:05:31,959 --> 03:05:36,080
Speaker 19: a number of like they like stack on each other. Yeah,

3199
03:05:36,120 --> 03:05:39,000
Speaker 19: Like there's This is just a one of many like

3200
03:05:39,120 --> 03:05:43,280
Speaker 19: amendments strengthening their sanctuary laws. And I'm mentioning it specifically

3201
03:05:43,360 --> 03:05:45,800
Speaker 19: to clarify where the one hundred and seventy number comes

3202
03:05:45,879 --> 03:05:48,600
Speaker 19: from and where people can find all of the criminal

3203
03:05:48,680 --> 03:05:53,119
Speaker 19: codes that are listed, which is again, approximately one hundred

3204
03:05:53,160 --> 03:05:56,360
Speaker 19: and seventy crimes. Yeah, and the change that this local

3205
03:05:56,440 --> 03:05:57,840
Speaker 19: law did is that this person doesn't have to just

3206
03:05:57,879 --> 03:05:59,760
Speaker 19: be accused of one of these crimes, but actually be

3207
03:05:59,840 --> 03:06:02,240
Speaker 19: can or listed in a terroor stateabase.

3208
03:06:02,720 --> 03:06:06,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. And these are mostly like violent felets. Yeah. The

3209
03:06:06,560 --> 03:06:09,600
Speaker 3: law that Garrison refers to lists them by penal code number.

3210
03:06:10,160 --> 03:06:13,680
Speaker 3: So I'm working on expanding those into a list of

3211
03:06:13,959 --> 03:06:17,680
Speaker 3: words that human beings can understand. Yeah, sure, just because

3212
03:06:17,720 --> 03:06:23,720
Speaker 3: I think people generally don't understand sanctuary protections. Sanctuary laws

3213
03:06:23,760 --> 03:06:25,920
Speaker 3: are not like a They're not the same in every state,

3214
03:06:25,959 --> 03:06:27,879
Speaker 3: They're not the same in every city in every state,

3215
03:06:28,560 --> 03:06:31,000
Speaker 3: and I think a lot of people have an understanding

3216
03:06:31,040 --> 03:06:33,400
Speaker 3: of them, which could do with being improved. So I'm

3217
03:06:33,400 --> 03:06:35,000
Speaker 3: going to probably do a whole episode on that. I

3218
03:06:35,080 --> 03:06:38,480
Speaker 3: think with regard to the list of crimes in New York,

3219
03:06:38,520 --> 03:06:40,480
Speaker 3: I would prefer to do that as a print piece

3220
03:06:41,280 --> 03:06:43,320
Speaker 3: because it's just better if someone could find it on

3221
03:06:43,400 --> 03:06:45,600
Speaker 3: the internet, and that doesn't work as well with podcasts

3222
03:06:46,120 --> 03:06:49,720
Speaker 3: other stuff regarding this, Just so people are aware, right like, federally,

3223
03:06:49,879 --> 03:06:52,600
Speaker 3: one could be deported for a huge range of crimes

3224
03:06:53,000 --> 03:06:55,960
Speaker 3: from violent crime to thefto over ten thousand dollars to

3225
03:06:56,040 --> 03:06:59,840
Speaker 3: a vast range of quote unquote crimes involving moral turpitude.

3226
03:07:00,480 --> 03:07:02,440
Speaker 3: The problem, of course, is that we have fifty different

3227
03:07:02,440 --> 03:07:04,440
Speaker 3: states with fifty different sets of laws, and we have

3228
03:07:04,600 --> 03:07:08,080
Speaker 3: to map federal regulations onto them. There is some Supreme

3229
03:07:08,160 --> 03:07:12,000
Speaker 3: Court case law about how we do that. Crimes involving

3230
03:07:12,040 --> 03:07:16,480
Speaker 3: moral turpitude can be things that you might consider extraordinarily minor,

3231
03:07:16,760 --> 03:07:19,400
Speaker 3: like turnstile hopping. Yeah, I'm going to do a whole

3232
03:07:19,440 --> 03:07:22,520
Speaker 3: episode on these, because again, I think you could see

3233
03:07:22,879 --> 03:07:26,240
Speaker 3: in that press conference, so when Zoran spoke about immigration,

3234
03:07:26,440 --> 03:07:29,960
Speaker 3: Trump tried to move the topic to deporting criminals. Yeah,

3235
03:07:30,040 --> 03:07:33,199
Speaker 3: and the people who are being deported as criminals, whilst

3236
03:07:33,240 --> 03:07:36,119
Speaker 3: the DHS twitter feed wants to highlight people who've been

3237
03:07:36,440 --> 03:07:39,360
Speaker 3: convicted of murder and things, and that's by far look

3238
03:07:39,360 --> 03:07:42,360
Speaker 3: at an EDU case. Yeah, And I think that's why

3239
03:07:42,440 --> 03:07:45,080
Speaker 3: he mentioned the one hundred and seventy like serious urvolent

3240
03:07:45,160 --> 03:07:47,840
Speaker 3: crimes and like specifically that those are the ones that

3241
03:07:47,920 --> 03:07:52,880
Speaker 3: the New York Sentuary laws do have this quote unquote

3242
03:07:52,920 --> 03:07:57,160
Speaker 3: cooperation on and like in a meeting, Zorn said that

3243
03:07:57,400 --> 03:08:00,240
Speaker 3: he and Trump talked about how current ice operation in

3244
03:08:00,520 --> 03:08:02,920
Speaker 3: New York City, I quote unquote very little to do

3245
03:08:03,680 --> 03:08:09,440
Speaker 3: with serious crime, with these crimes listed on these detainers. Yeah,

3246
03:08:09,520 --> 03:08:11,920
Speaker 3: and that's a broad thing across the United States, right,

3247
03:08:12,000 --> 03:08:14,360
Speaker 3: Like even we spoke about this a couple of weeks ago.

3248
03:08:14,440 --> 03:08:16,080
Speaker 3: But like, if you look at Charlotte right where they

3249
03:08:16,120 --> 03:08:19,520
Speaker 3: have they are legally bound to honor all ICE detainers

3250
03:08:19,600 --> 03:08:22,680
Speaker 3: by HB ten, you've still got Ice out and about

3251
03:08:22,760 --> 03:08:26,840
Speaker 3: raiding people, and you have sheriffs complaining about Ice not

3252
03:08:27,040 --> 03:08:30,360
Speaker 3: picking people up right the detainer, I guess I should

3253
03:08:30,360 --> 03:08:32,840
Speaker 3: explain what a detainer is as well. A detainer is

3254
03:08:32,920 --> 03:08:36,360
Speaker 3: an extra forty eight hour hold. It doesn't mean that

3255
03:08:36,440 --> 03:08:38,720
Speaker 3: you just like lock them up forever. It means that

3256
03:08:38,760 --> 03:08:40,480
Speaker 3: you hold them for forty eight hours such that ICE

3257
03:08:40,560 --> 03:08:44,320
Speaker 3: can come in and collect the person. Because ICE is

3258
03:08:44,440 --> 03:08:47,640
Speaker 3: so focused on I don't know what you want to

3259
03:08:47,640 --> 03:08:50,240
Speaker 3: call it, grabbing people off the street. Yeah, it seems

3260
03:08:50,280 --> 03:08:53,600
Speaker 3: that they're not collecting these people. There's been some pushback,

3261
03:08:53,760 --> 03:08:58,400
Speaker 3: like on straight up economic grounds in some states because

3262
03:08:58,440 --> 03:09:02,000
Speaker 3: the detaining people is quite expensive, right, so detaining people

3263
03:09:02,040 --> 03:09:04,440
Speaker 3: for long periods of time and it's just not showing up.

3264
03:09:04,560 --> 03:09:07,680
Speaker 3: I can see how not to give support to sheriff's

3265
03:09:07,680 --> 03:09:11,200
Speaker 3: departments or whatever. But like rural sheriff's departments which are

3266
03:09:11,240 --> 03:09:14,080
Speaker 3: on limited budgets, would start to get pissed off after

3267
03:09:14,160 --> 03:09:17,000
Speaker 3: a time about holding people. But yeah, that is what

3268
03:09:17,120 --> 03:09:22,120
Speaker 3: a detainer is, got it. ICE doesn't necessarily have to

3269
03:09:22,440 --> 03:09:25,199
Speaker 3: abide by local sanctuary laws. And what we have seen

3270
03:09:25,320 --> 03:09:28,560
Speaker 3: is that, like, cops are cops, and they will make mistakes,

3271
03:09:28,760 --> 03:09:31,720
Speaker 3: and if someone gets handed over, you can't take them

3272
03:09:31,840 --> 03:09:33,960
Speaker 3: back if the cops fuck that up.

3273
03:09:34,520 --> 03:09:36,240
Speaker 19: Yeah, I mean, and this is part of the other

3274
03:09:36,520 --> 03:09:40,080
Speaker 19: things that Zaron campaigned on to like strength and sanctuary protections,

3275
03:09:40,160 --> 03:09:44,560
Speaker 19: And specifically in the section of his policies on quote

3276
03:09:44,640 --> 03:09:47,960
Speaker 19: unquote trump proofing New York City, he talks about like

3277
03:09:48,120 --> 03:09:51,360
Speaker 19: ending a legal ICE cooperation on Riker's Island or ICE

3278
03:09:51,480 --> 03:09:53,840
Speaker 19: is currently stationed, which does go against sanctuary laws, and

3279
03:09:54,240 --> 03:09:56,760
Speaker 19: you've talked about ending that as well as providing one

3280
03:09:56,840 --> 03:10:00,520
Speaker 19: hundred and sixty five million dollars in funding for immigration

3281
03:10:00,600 --> 03:10:02,760
Speaker 19: legal defend services in the cities, which would be a

3282
03:10:02,840 --> 03:10:06,280
Speaker 19: massive increase and what is currently provided. Yeah, as well

3283
03:10:06,280 --> 03:10:08,920
Speaker 19: as just like limiting interactions with police, right is the

3284
03:10:08,959 --> 03:10:11,160
Speaker 19: more you interact with the police, the more likely is

3285
03:10:11,200 --> 03:10:14,840
Speaker 19: that you might accidentally or quote unquote accidentally get put

3286
03:10:14,879 --> 03:10:16,640
Speaker 19: into trouble even though you know, police in New York

3287
03:10:16,640 --> 03:10:18,200
Speaker 19: are not supposed to ever ask someone that what their

3288
03:10:18,240 --> 03:10:22,200
Speaker 19: immigration status is or or cooperate with ice requests that

3289
03:10:22,280 --> 03:10:26,280
Speaker 19: do not you know, fall under this specific container law.

3290
03:10:26,600 --> 03:10:28,720
Speaker 19: But I mean in terms of like ways to limit

3291
03:10:28,720 --> 03:10:31,640
Speaker 19: interactions with police, this goes back to some very basic

3292
03:10:31,720 --> 03:10:34,760
Speaker 19: ideas on like, you know, addressing the economic conditions that

3293
03:10:34,840 --> 03:10:37,440
Speaker 19: create crime in the first place, as well as the

3294
03:10:37,520 --> 03:10:40,760
Speaker 19: Department of Community Safety, which is soron intends to create

3295
03:10:41,080 --> 03:10:43,800
Speaker 19: which will provide new mental health services, crisis response, and

3296
03:10:43,879 --> 03:10:46,680
Speaker 19: homeless outreach outside of the NYPD.

3297
03:10:47,240 --> 03:10:51,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, not criminalizing homelessness and not criminalizing parking are

3298
03:10:51,640 --> 03:10:54,920
Speaker 3: probably two of the most meaningful things that you can

3299
03:10:55,000 --> 03:10:58,920
Speaker 3: do to limit police interaction a specifically police interactions from

3300
03:10:59,040 --> 03:10:59,920
Speaker 3: documented people.

3301
03:11:00,520 --> 03:11:02,440
Speaker 19: Yeah, and I mean in terms of like turnstile hopping

3302
03:11:02,520 --> 03:11:05,400
Speaker 19: or like fair evation. It's it's complicated in New York. Mean,

3303
03:11:05,560 --> 03:11:09,160
Speaker 19: this isn't gonna be something that they honor a detainer for.

3304
03:11:09,400 --> 03:11:11,199
Speaker 19: But in terms of like you know, just talking about

3305
03:11:11,200 --> 03:11:14,119
Speaker 19: like the Yeah, how weird and specific each state's laws

3306
03:11:14,160 --> 03:11:17,040
Speaker 19: are like turnstile hopping can be a misdemeanor crime in

3307
03:11:17,120 --> 03:11:19,400
Speaker 19: New York due to like theft of services.

3308
03:11:19,879 --> 03:11:22,080
Speaker 3: It can also just be a civil in fracture.

3309
03:11:22,120 --> 03:11:24,720
Speaker 19: It can, but it's up to the officer to decide

3310
03:11:25,200 --> 03:11:28,320
Speaker 19: whether they want this to turn into a criminal misdemeanor

3311
03:11:28,600 --> 03:11:30,720
Speaker 19: or a civil infraction and just pay one hundred dollars fine.

3312
03:11:31,720 --> 03:11:34,080
Speaker 19: Even this is like cause confusion among like immigrants and

3313
03:11:34,160 --> 03:11:38,120
Speaker 19: immigrant rights attorneys over like dealing with like old old

3314
03:11:38,240 --> 03:11:40,480
Speaker 19: fair ofvation cases and being like, does this now like

3315
03:11:40,600 --> 03:11:44,680
Speaker 19: disqualify me from certain things or does this, like you know,

3316
03:11:45,000 --> 03:11:47,320
Speaker 19: present a threat of being deported if I if I

3317
03:11:47,400 --> 03:11:50,360
Speaker 19: declare this and like whatever, like citizenship or the green

3318
03:11:50,400 --> 03:11:53,720
Speaker 19: card meeting, they may they may have scheduled. Yeah, and yeah,

3319
03:11:54,080 --> 03:11:58,320
Speaker 19: not not criminalizing fair ovation would be huge. And if

3320
03:11:58,320 --> 03:12:00,600
Speaker 19: someone's able to make you know, free buses, that'll do,

3321
03:12:00,920 --> 03:12:04,560
Speaker 19: you know, a considerable dent in preventing cases where ferivation

3322
03:12:04,640 --> 03:12:07,720
Speaker 19: could be used as a pretext federally support someone.

3323
03:12:08,160 --> 03:12:10,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because that person or that person could leave

3324
03:12:10,640 --> 03:12:12,280
Speaker 3: New York and be somewhere else, right, or they could

3325
03:12:12,280 --> 03:12:14,400
Speaker 3: just get swept up in ice workplace raid, and that

3326
03:12:14,480 --> 03:12:16,840
Speaker 3: could be used as a pretext like there are many

3327
03:12:16,920 --> 03:12:21,160
Speaker 3: reasons why even if it's sanctuary protected, that person could

3328
03:12:21,160 --> 03:12:22,800
Speaker 3: still be vulnerable because of that prosecution.

3329
03:12:22,959 --> 03:12:25,320
Speaker 19: Like you said, yeah, I mean, and then those sorts

3330
03:12:25,320 --> 03:12:27,520
Speaker 19: of raids are still happening in New York.

3331
03:12:27,760 --> 03:12:30,720
Speaker 3: An attempted rate happened in Connell Street. Yeah, last week.

3332
03:12:30,760 --> 03:12:32,920
Speaker 19: It was prevented from being carried out by people who

3333
03:12:33,000 --> 03:12:36,320
Speaker 19: literally blocked Ice from leaving the parking garage that they

3334
03:12:36,320 --> 03:12:39,760
Speaker 19: were in, and the NYPD then arrested a few protesters.

3335
03:12:40,240 --> 03:12:43,199
Speaker 19: It remains to be seen how Zoron will handle incidents

3336
03:12:43,240 --> 03:12:44,680
Speaker 19: like this going forward. He still does not become the

3337
03:12:44,720 --> 03:12:48,360
Speaker 19: mayor for but thirty days, right, but a spokesperson for

3338
03:12:49,080 --> 03:12:51,280
Speaker 19: the mayor elect has said that Zoron quote has made

3339
03:12:51,320 --> 03:12:53,360
Speaker 19: it clear, including to the President, that these raids are

3340
03:12:53,440 --> 03:12:56,119
Speaker 19: cruel and inhumane and failed to advanced genuine public safety.

3341
03:12:56,200 --> 03:12:58,360
Speaker 19: New York City's more than three million immigrants are central

3342
03:12:58,400 --> 03:13:01,240
Speaker 19: to our city strength, retality, and success. The Mayor Electromaine

3343
03:13:01,240 --> 03:13:04,359
Speaker 19: Steadfast and his emumitment to protecting the rights and dignity

3344
03:13:04,760 --> 03:13:07,440
Speaker 19: of every single New Yorker, upholding our sanctuary laws, and

3345
03:13:07,720 --> 03:13:11,800
Speaker 19: de escalation rather than use of unnecessary force unquote, believe

3346
03:13:11,840 --> 03:13:14,480
Speaker 19: that last sentence could be read as in reference to

3347
03:13:14,600 --> 03:13:18,720
Speaker 19: the police conduct while handling antiites protests, yeah, quote unquote

3348
03:13:18,800 --> 03:13:21,720
Speaker 19: de escalation rather than use of unnecessary force. But this

3349
03:13:21,840 --> 03:13:24,440
Speaker 19: is not something that they have talked about much.

3350
03:13:24,840 --> 03:13:27,920
Speaker 1: Curious to see when he's actually the mayor, what will

3351
03:13:27,959 --> 03:13:28,400
Speaker 1: happen here?

3352
03:13:28,920 --> 03:13:31,320
Speaker 19: Yeah, yeah, I mean, and that's that's that's a part

3353
03:13:31,400 --> 03:13:33,520
Speaker 19: of like what governing is going to look like in

3354
03:13:33,600 --> 03:13:36,440
Speaker 19: this case, which is kind of sure, it's hard to say.

3355
03:13:36,480 --> 03:13:38,200
Speaker 19: We've never really had a high profile like you know,

3356
03:13:38,360 --> 03:13:42,600
Speaker 19: dsa person who previously advocated like defunded or abolishing the

3357
03:13:42,640 --> 03:13:43,880
Speaker 19: police become the mayor of a city.

3358
03:13:44,400 --> 03:13:47,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think this kind.

3359
03:13:47,080 --> 03:13:49,279
Speaker 19: Of relates to like so much of what the project

3360
03:13:49,360 --> 03:13:51,960
Speaker 19: in New York is around New York City DSA and

3361
03:13:52,040 --> 03:13:55,280
Speaker 19: zoron to rather than just like you know, be like

3362
03:13:55,440 --> 03:13:59,039
Speaker 19: chasing electoral cars and then crashing once you have control.

3363
03:13:59,360 --> 03:14:01,960
Speaker 19: Exortins weren't just in like actually running the city and

3364
03:14:02,040 --> 03:14:05,320
Speaker 19: providing a legitimate example that democratic socialst policies can deliver

3365
03:14:05,400 --> 03:14:07,440
Speaker 19: on promises for workers and improve life in New York.

3366
03:14:08,200 --> 03:14:10,040
Speaker 19: And if this project succeeds, it can be pointed to

3367
03:14:10,160 --> 03:14:13,600
Speaker 19: and replicated by others. And there's a very strict focus

3368
03:14:13,720 --> 03:14:15,680
Speaker 19: on like making sure that he's able to succeed on

3369
03:14:16,680 --> 03:14:19,680
Speaker 19: a section of like economic policies. He's not in a

3370
03:14:19,720 --> 03:14:22,520
Speaker 19: federal position, right He's not running on abolishing ice, as

3371
03:14:22,600 --> 03:14:24,240
Speaker 19: he can't as the mayor of New York And like,

3372
03:14:24,440 --> 03:14:26,440
Speaker 19: I think it's very unclear right now, like what a

3373
03:14:26,560 --> 03:14:30,120
Speaker 19: politics of abolishing ice really looks like outside of like

3374
03:14:30,200 --> 03:14:35,879
Speaker 19: this like contemplative, like reflective and like judgmental politics, which

3375
03:14:36,000 --> 03:14:38,960
Speaker 19: falls further and further away from like taking steps to

3376
03:14:39,360 --> 03:14:39,800
Speaker 19: do action.

3377
03:14:40,080 --> 03:14:42,600
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I mean a politics abolishing GUS looks like

3378
03:14:42,640 --> 03:14:45,080
Speaker 3: the United States up until two thousand and one, right,

3379
03:14:45,400 --> 03:14:46,520
Speaker 3: like we didn't have ice.

3380
03:14:46,879 --> 03:14:49,400
Speaker 19: Well, but like from now, like what would it mean

3381
03:14:49,560 --> 03:14:52,000
Speaker 19: to actually stop the quotations completely?

3382
03:14:52,120 --> 03:14:54,080
Speaker 3: Like what will that look like? What can be done

3383
03:14:54,120 --> 03:14:55,320
Speaker 3: politically to do that? Right?

3384
03:14:55,680 --> 03:14:58,360
Speaker 19: And Zorin's not doing this because Soron's the mayor of

3385
03:14:58,400 --> 03:15:01,920
Speaker 19: New York City. He cannot run for president. People in

3386
03:15:02,040 --> 03:15:04,960
Speaker 19: his orbit could run for the House and set it

3387
03:15:05,200 --> 03:15:08,160
Speaker 19: and push forward bills to do this, and they might

3388
03:15:08,280 --> 03:15:12,160
Speaker 19: over time, But like there is a difference between being

3389
03:15:12,200 --> 03:15:14,160
Speaker 19: the mayor of a local municipality and like what are

3390
03:15:14,360 --> 03:15:19,240
Speaker 19: legitimate politics of actually stopping our current process of deportations,

3391
03:15:19,360 --> 03:15:21,400
Speaker 19: what that really looks like and how to actually achieve that,

3392
03:15:21,680 --> 03:15:24,840
Speaker 19: which a very little thought is being put towards among

3393
03:15:24,920 --> 03:15:28,240
Speaker 19: the American left right now, And it kind of it

3394
03:15:28,320 --> 03:15:31,800
Speaker 19: falls back on these like reflective or like contemplative statements.

3395
03:15:32,480 --> 03:15:34,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, there have been proposals put forward for a long

3396
03:15:34,879 --> 03:15:38,160
Speaker 3: time on what it would look like to create better

3397
03:15:38,240 --> 03:15:41,760
Speaker 3: legal pathways and fewer deportations, right, like those who existed. Sure,

3398
03:15:41,920 --> 03:15:44,600
Speaker 3: like you can look specifically at what people were trying

3399
03:15:44,680 --> 03:15:46,880
Speaker 3: to get Biden to do in twenty twenty, right, which

3400
03:15:46,879 --> 03:15:49,640
Speaker 3: he obviously completely failed to do and in effect made

3401
03:15:49,680 --> 03:15:54,560
Speaker 3: things much worse. But like those policy proposals exist, and

3402
03:15:54,600 --> 03:15:57,280
Speaker 3: they're well thought out and well planned from people who've

3403
03:15:57,280 --> 03:16:01,320
Speaker 3: been working into space for decades. Right, Danni can do

3404
03:16:01,920 --> 03:16:03,800
Speaker 3: is like what they call in political science, like the

3405
03:16:03,879 --> 03:16:07,879
Speaker 3: coketails effect, totally right. As a very popular candidate, people

3406
03:16:07,959 --> 03:16:11,039
Speaker 3: can ride on his coattails. And I think it's important

3407
03:16:11,080 --> 03:16:16,480
Speaker 3: in that sense that he continues rhetorically to oppose what

3408
03:16:16,640 --> 03:16:18,880
Speaker 3: Ice is doing, which, like that statement you read, did right,

3409
03:16:19,040 --> 03:16:23,040
Speaker 3: But it's very important that he if he's able to

3410
03:16:23,120 --> 03:16:27,360
Speaker 3: successfully have his administration in New York and we will

3411
03:16:27,400 --> 03:16:29,240
Speaker 3: see how shit goes in that regard. But if he

3412
03:16:29,480 --> 03:16:32,320
Speaker 3: is and there is an electoral project that can arise

3413
03:16:32,400 --> 03:16:35,320
Speaker 3: based on that, then like it is very important that

3414
03:16:35,360 --> 03:16:37,760
Speaker 3: they remain in lockstep that like, we are not going back,

3415
03:16:37,840 --> 03:16:40,720
Speaker 3: We're not gonna have a Democrat com president in twenty

3416
03:16:40,760 --> 03:16:43,160
Speaker 3: eight and just do a Joe Biden again right where

3417
03:16:43,240 --> 03:16:46,000
Speaker 3: things get worse. So in that sense, I think it

3418
03:16:46,160 --> 03:16:49,200
Speaker 3: like it needs to be something that everyone in that

3419
03:16:49,480 --> 03:16:54,320
Speaker 3: movement retains. I guess, like not uniformity is the wrong word,

3420
03:16:54,360 --> 03:16:55,520
Speaker 3: you know, but you know what I mean literally that

3421
03:16:55,920 --> 03:16:58,400
Speaker 3: it continues to be something of a norse staff for

3422
03:16:58,520 --> 03:17:01,400
Speaker 3: whatever is emerging to the left of the DNC.

3423
03:17:02,280 --> 03:17:04,720
Speaker 19: Yeah, And like I did also, like I guess clarify

3424
03:17:04,800 --> 03:17:07,440
Speaker 19: some things I would have said last week and not

3425
03:17:07,720 --> 03:17:12,080
Speaker 19: claiming that sheerly the the process of honoring these detainers

3426
03:17:12,160 --> 03:17:16,080
Speaker 19: will like vaguely in a causal sense, results in less

3427
03:17:16,360 --> 03:17:19,320
Speaker 19: ice raids in the city. I mean, these detainers are

3428
03:17:19,840 --> 03:17:22,720
Speaker 19: they are legally required, even under sanctuary laws, to be

3429
03:17:23,800 --> 03:17:26,640
Speaker 19: to be followed. And I think part of what Zora

3430
03:17:26,800 --> 03:17:31,360
Speaker 19: was doing was trying to redirect the president's thought away

3431
03:17:31,560 --> 03:17:35,920
Speaker 19: from these larger raids to these specific serious crimes. And

3432
03:17:36,040 --> 03:17:38,120
Speaker 19: I think in some of this is based on Trump

3433
03:17:38,240 --> 03:17:39,840
Speaker 19: kind of has like the last person in the room

3434
03:17:39,920 --> 03:17:44,080
Speaker 19: syndrome off He kind of just likes or or follows

3435
03:17:44,200 --> 03:17:47,320
Speaker 19: or parrots whoever the last person in the room was.

3436
03:17:47,440 --> 03:17:48,520
Speaker 3: And like what they told him.

3437
03:17:48,920 --> 03:17:51,800
Speaker 19: I'm not saying that like honoring these these legally required

3438
03:17:51,840 --> 03:17:54,160
Speaker 19: detainers is like is simply harmon direction in that sense.

3439
03:17:54,600 --> 03:17:58,800
Speaker 19: This is more so in reference to the ongoing negotiations

3440
03:17:58,840 --> 03:18:01,920
Speaker 19: between Momdani and Trump to limit ICE action in the

3441
03:18:02,000 --> 03:18:05,400
Speaker 19: city outside of these detainer requests, which do address serious crime.

3442
03:18:05,760 --> 03:18:08,080
Speaker 19: Which Trump and Mom Donnie saw as a point of

3443
03:18:08,200 --> 03:18:10,360
Speaker 19: commonality on is they want New York to be a

3444
03:18:10,400 --> 03:18:13,560
Speaker 19: safe place for people, focusing on that as opposed to

3445
03:18:14,160 --> 03:18:17,120
Speaker 19: these general ICE raids. And there's been like some slight

3446
03:18:17,200 --> 03:18:20,320
Speaker 19: movement on this. Raids have continued, but there's been slight

3447
03:18:20,480 --> 03:18:23,200
Speaker 19: movement in terms of Trump at least for now, pulling

3448
03:18:23,200 --> 03:18:26,200
Speaker 19: out of his plans to deploy National Guard to assist ICE. YEA,

3449
03:18:26,320 --> 03:18:28,480
Speaker 19: and like that is the single point where we see

3450
03:18:28,560 --> 03:18:31,400
Speaker 19: some movement on. And this will be something that in

3451
03:18:31,480 --> 03:18:33,920
Speaker 19: terms of raids like on Connall Street. Well, we'll see

3452
03:18:33,959 --> 03:18:35,960
Speaker 19: if this actually makes a larger impact once he takes

3453
03:18:36,040 --> 03:18:38,360
Speaker 19: office and continues these negotiations.

3454
03:18:39,560 --> 03:18:43,440
Speaker 3: If National Guard or assisting ICE, is that like because

3455
03:18:43,560 --> 03:18:47,640
Speaker 3: they can't directly do the immigration enforcement, right, Well, I

3456
03:18:47,680 --> 03:18:49,800
Speaker 3: mean assisting ICE in the way that they haven't washed

3457
03:18:49,879 --> 03:18:52,160
Speaker 3: in DC. Yeah, like in terms of like quote unquote

3458
03:18:52,200 --> 03:18:54,360
Speaker 3: protecting officers or quote yes.

3459
03:18:54,520 --> 03:18:57,480
Speaker 19: Yeah, and you know the proposals to do so in

3460
03:18:57,600 --> 03:19:02,440
Speaker 19: Chicago and Portland, which are cotton like legal limbo. But

3461
03:19:02,480 --> 03:19:04,560
Speaker 19: I mean that the Portland was more specifically for the

3462
03:19:04,600 --> 03:19:07,720
Speaker 19: ICE facility, Yeah, protecting federal building, this kind of deal,

3463
03:19:08,040 --> 03:19:10,240
Speaker 19: versus in Washington, d C. They were like on patrol

3464
03:19:10,320 --> 03:19:12,160
Speaker 19: with ICE, Like they were like roving.

3465
03:19:11,920 --> 03:19:14,080
Speaker 3: Around and doing roadblocks and shit.

3466
03:19:14,320 --> 03:19:16,200
Speaker 19: Yeah, and like much of this quote unquote crime crackdown,

3467
03:19:16,200 --> 03:19:19,320
Speaker 19: as Bridgetes reported on our show, really is actually a

3468
03:19:19,400 --> 03:19:22,080
Speaker 19: way to do like enhanced immigration enforcement.

3469
03:19:22,879 --> 03:19:23,080
Speaker 21: Yeah.

3470
03:19:23,320 --> 03:19:24,840
Speaker 19: There's a lot of fear in New York and discussions

3471
03:19:24,840 --> 03:19:26,200
Speaker 19: with people in New York and like how are we

3472
03:19:26,280 --> 03:19:28,480
Speaker 19: going to handle this happening here?

3473
03:19:28,760 --> 03:19:30,800
Speaker 3: Yeah? And this is like the one point of moment

3474
03:19:30,840 --> 03:19:33,039
Speaker 3: that we've seen is Trump pulling out of these plans,

3475
03:19:33,080 --> 03:19:35,360
Speaker 3: which previously we're quite certain he wants to like go

3476
03:19:35,600 --> 03:19:39,000
Speaker 3: one by one and like invade these cities. Yeah, New York.

3477
03:19:39,080 --> 03:19:42,680
Speaker 3: You also have the like the added factor that like

3478
03:19:42,840 --> 03:19:46,160
Speaker 3: New York is technically in that border enforcement zone, right,

3479
03:19:46,440 --> 03:19:49,000
Speaker 3: So I mean as is Chicago. Yeah, I guess most

3480
03:19:49,040 --> 03:19:52,640
Speaker 3: of these places have been Chicago, Portland is Los Angeles.

3481
03:19:52,800 --> 03:19:56,080
Speaker 3: Is because of the Laketown Los Angeles, they deployed border patrol. Right,

3482
03:19:56,120 --> 03:19:59,039
Speaker 3: that's another thing that it could happen in New York.

3483
03:19:59,120 --> 03:20:02,480
Speaker 3: But like the far hasn't on a massive scale, but yeah,

3484
03:20:02,800 --> 03:20:04,520
Speaker 3: it remains to be seen. Right, Like Trump has this

3485
03:20:04,800 --> 03:20:09,880
Speaker 3: like operation at Large that Buveno controls that he could

3486
03:20:09,920 --> 03:20:12,760
Speaker 3: deploy to New York and it'll be yeah, provided to Boston,

3487
03:20:12,800 --> 03:20:16,440
Speaker 3: where Michelle Bouch has like taken a different approach, right,

3488
03:20:16,720 --> 03:20:20,439
Speaker 3: like and yeah, I guess we'll We'll have to continue

3489
03:20:21,120 --> 03:20:23,720
Speaker 3: waiting and seeing. It's really heartening to me that people

3490
03:20:23,800 --> 03:20:25,560
Speaker 3: showed up in New York as well, you know, like

3491
03:20:26,160 --> 03:20:28,120
Speaker 3: oh yeah, that people in New York showed up on

3492
03:20:28,200 --> 03:20:31,440
Speaker 3: Canal Street like that is uh yeah, and prevented ICE

3493
03:20:31,480 --> 03:20:35,440
Speaker 3: from doing any detentions or arrests. Yeah, And I think

3494
03:20:35,560 --> 03:20:38,320
Speaker 3: like they like the ICE eventually had to leave to

3495
03:20:38,360 --> 03:20:40,080
Speaker 3: New Jersey, Is that right? Like they had to go

3496
03:20:40,440 --> 03:20:45,400
Speaker 3: through the tunnel or whatever, like the tunnel, yeah, the

3497
03:20:45,440 --> 03:20:48,960
Speaker 3: tunnel of shade. Yeah yeah, but like that that is

3498
03:20:49,720 --> 03:20:51,280
Speaker 3: like that is what kept those people safe.

3499
03:20:51,320 --> 03:20:51,520
Speaker 6: Rightly.

3500
03:20:51,520 --> 03:20:53,400
Speaker 3: They didn't have to wait for Eric Adams or man

3501
03:20:53,480 --> 03:20:56,160
Speaker 3: Downey or anyone else, like it was members of their community.

3502
03:20:56,440 --> 03:20:56,640
Speaker 12: Yeah.

3503
03:20:56,920 --> 03:21:01,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is cool talking of communities. They want to

3504
03:21:01,959 --> 03:21:04,320
Speaker 3: want to talk about the campus campus community and have

3505
03:21:04,440 --> 03:21:07,160
Speaker 3: freedom of speech. He's under threat on our campuses. Well,

3506
03:21:07,200 --> 03:21:10,560
Speaker 3: freedom of religion is under threat, James, Okay, religion to

3507
03:21:11,680 --> 03:21:17,280
Speaker 3: freedom to so tired, freedom to tire, to cite a

3508
03:21:17,440 --> 03:21:19,520
Speaker 3: vibe space interpretation of the religion.

3509
03:21:19,560 --> 03:21:22,520
Speaker 19: I mean, yeah, this unfortunately, this story did infringe upon

3510
03:21:22,640 --> 03:21:27,080
Speaker 19: my freedom to not read horrible college essays Garrison.

3511
03:21:27,160 --> 03:21:28,960
Speaker 3: That is a freedom that I have not had for

3512
03:21:29,080 --> 03:21:29,640
Speaker 3: many years.

3513
03:21:30,560 --> 03:21:32,400
Speaker 19: No, no, and this is why I'm interested in your

3514
03:21:32,440 --> 03:21:35,800
Speaker 19: thoughts on this. A transgraduate instructor has been suspended from

3515
03:21:35,840 --> 03:21:40,200
Speaker 19: the University of Oklahoma after issuing a failing grade to

3516
03:21:40,280 --> 03:21:42,600
Speaker 19: a students assignment right a six hundred and fifty word

3517
03:21:42,640 --> 03:21:45,440
Speaker 19: response to a study on if gender conformity is linked

3518
03:21:45,480 --> 03:21:49,720
Speaker 19: to popularity or bullying in middle school. This twenty year

3519
03:21:49,760 --> 03:21:53,880
Speaker 19: old psychology major, a junior, wrote in her response that

3520
03:21:53,959 --> 03:21:57,720
Speaker 19: she does not consider bullying a problem because quote God

3521
03:21:57,920 --> 03:22:01,119
Speaker 19: made male and female and made us different from each

3522
03:22:01,160 --> 03:22:06,680
Speaker 19: other on purpose and for a purpose unquote. The response

3523
03:22:06,840 --> 03:22:11,160
Speaker 19: was entirely personal opinion. It does not even properly cite

3524
03:22:11,200 --> 03:22:14,280
Speaker 19: specific like scriptures in the Bible. If, like, if I

3525
03:22:14,480 --> 03:22:17,520
Speaker 19: was to write like an unhinged like like a Christian response,

3526
03:22:18,080 --> 03:22:20,199
Speaker 19: least the least you could do is site specific things.

3527
03:22:20,360 --> 03:22:23,560
Speaker 3: Should that be valid? No, but even this was not done.

3528
03:22:23,560 --> 03:22:24,959
Speaker 1: It's like Bible fanfic.

3529
03:22:25,400 --> 03:22:27,199
Speaker 3: These are the vibes I get from genius.

3530
03:22:27,200 --> 03:22:31,760
Speaker 19: Well, yeah, she just gestured her own interpretation of biblical

3531
03:22:31,920 --> 03:22:36,680
Speaker 19: gender roles, right sure, sure, quote women naturally want to

3532
03:22:36,800 --> 03:22:40,959
Speaker 19: do womanly things because God created us with those womanly

3533
03:22:41,120 --> 03:22:43,600
Speaker 19: desires in our heart unquote.

3534
03:22:43,640 --> 03:22:46,879
Speaker 3: So she's women and know like like females. I guess

3535
03:22:46,920 --> 03:22:48,320
Speaker 3: maybe maybe she was going for a.

3536
03:22:49,959 --> 03:22:53,520
Speaker 19: It's it's all circular reasoning like this all based on

3537
03:22:53,920 --> 03:22:57,640
Speaker 19: based on these like biblical gender roles, and later the

3538
03:22:57,760 --> 03:23:00,720
Speaker 19: essay goes on to self contradict itself on ideas of

3539
03:23:00,879 --> 03:23:05,440
Speaker 19: gender norms versus gender stereotypes, and it's all just very

3540
03:23:05,520 --> 03:23:09,680
Speaker 19: poorly written. James, did you read the whole essay. No, Okay,

3541
03:23:09,879 --> 03:23:12,040
Speaker 19: it's not it's not long. We are not going to

3542
03:23:12,080 --> 03:23:12,680
Speaker 19: read it all on air.

3543
03:23:12,760 --> 03:23:13,440
Speaker 3: I'll read it right now.

3544
03:23:13,520 --> 03:23:15,720
Speaker 19: I want you to read the whole thing and just

3545
03:23:16,240 --> 03:23:19,360
Speaker 19: just give me the chat your immediate thoughts. I dropped

3546
03:23:19,360 --> 03:23:20,119
Speaker 19: it in the zoom chat.

3547
03:23:20,280 --> 03:23:22,200
Speaker 3: You have to understand that I might experience like what

3548
03:23:22,240 --> 03:23:26,160
Speaker 3: it's called a trauma reaction. It's only two pages, so

3549
03:23:26,360 --> 03:23:28,640
Speaker 3: it's based on a review of an article, based on

3550
03:23:28,680 --> 03:23:32,280
Speaker 3: a review of an academic study. Yeah, on if gender

3551
03:23:32,360 --> 03:23:39,920
Speaker 3: conformity impacts bullying or popularity in middle school. Okay, Jesus Christ,

3552
03:23:40,920 --> 03:23:44,440
Speaker 3: that's what she said, but not yet she has excited

3553
03:23:44,520 --> 03:23:50,120
Speaker 3: him specifically. No, she never said Jesus yeah God mm

3554
03:23:50,200 --> 03:23:52,840
Speaker 3: hm ah, hell yeah. I love it when they get

3555
03:23:52,879 --> 03:23:58,120
Speaker 3: into like Hebrew. Oh yeah, yeah, yes, I'm just skinned

3556
03:23:58,240 --> 03:24:04,640
Speaker 3: penulta paragraph. What class is this in psychology? A psychology course?

3557
03:24:05,120 --> 03:24:11,640
Speaker 3: I would assign this for a psychology close. H wow. Yeah.

3558
03:24:12,280 --> 03:24:15,000
Speaker 1: Can I just read like the last part out loud?

3559
03:24:15,480 --> 03:24:17,400
Speaker 3: Okay, Sophie, you can. You can read the last part.

3560
03:24:18,360 --> 03:24:18,600
Speaker 5: Yeah.

3561
03:24:20,240 --> 03:24:23,480
Speaker 1: My prayer for the world, and specifically for American society

3562
03:24:23,560 --> 03:24:26,080
Speaker 1: and youth is that they would not believe the lies

3563
03:24:26,160 --> 03:24:30,240
Speaker 1: being spread from satan that make them believe they're better

3564
03:24:30,360 --> 03:24:34,000
Speaker 1: off as another gender than what God made them. I

3565
03:24:34,120 --> 03:24:37,520
Speaker 1: pray that they feel God's love and acceptance as who

3566
03:24:37,920 --> 03:24:40,040
Speaker 1: He originally created them to be.

3567
03:24:41,080 --> 03:24:43,320
Speaker 3: So if you really inhabited that role beautifully.

3568
03:24:43,640 --> 03:24:48,279
Speaker 19: Thank you, thank you previously and like the paragraph of four.

3569
03:24:48,879 --> 03:24:52,360
Speaker 1: Do you want me to do it? Yeah, I unfortunately

3570
03:24:52,400 --> 03:24:59,480
Speaker 1: feel like I could really embody this horrific person. Society

3571
03:24:59,560 --> 03:25:02,320
Speaker 1: pushing the lie that there are multiple genders and everyone

3572
03:25:02,440 --> 03:25:05,480
Speaker 1: should be whatever they want to be is demonic It

3573
03:25:05,600 --> 03:25:09,400
Speaker 1: severely harms American youth. I do not want kids to be.

3574
03:25:09,480 --> 03:25:15,840
Speaker 19: Teased bullying stuff yet, So, James, as a college college professor,

3575
03:25:16,040 --> 03:25:17,480
Speaker 19: what is your thoughts on this?

3576
03:25:17,879 --> 03:25:20,240
Speaker 3: It's just a bad response to the question, right that

3577
03:25:20,320 --> 03:25:23,880
Speaker 3: there is not a single citation the person has not

3578
03:25:24,080 --> 03:25:27,120
Speaker 3: done what they were instructed to do. They have just

3579
03:25:27,240 --> 03:25:29,880
Speaker 3: it's a classic example of that you have answered the

3580
03:25:29,959 --> 03:25:32,200
Speaker 3: question you wanted me to ask, not the question I

3581
03:25:32,280 --> 03:25:36,320
Speaker 3: have asked. Genre Sure, and in this case, like I'm

3582
03:25:36,360 --> 03:25:39,400
Speaker 3: presuming there was some kind of rubric for grading, Like

3583
03:25:39,800 --> 03:25:41,880
Speaker 3: it seems like a like a the sort of assignment

3584
03:25:41,959 --> 03:25:43,880
Speaker 3: that you would set once a week, right, I don't

3585
03:25:43,879 --> 03:25:45,760
Speaker 3: know if it's an online course or they're just using

3586
03:25:45,760 --> 03:25:49,320
Speaker 3: an online LMS, but the comment is clearly from an

3587
03:25:49,360 --> 03:25:50,080
Speaker 3: online LMS.

3588
03:25:50,840 --> 03:25:55,040
Speaker 19: Yeah, they do have the rubrick, and that TPUSA published.

3589
03:25:55,760 --> 03:25:58,440
Speaker 19: The rubrick was that you must write this six hundred

3590
03:25:58,440 --> 03:26:01,840
Speaker 19: and fifty word reaction paper demonstrating that you have read

3591
03:26:01,959 --> 03:26:05,080
Speaker 19: the assigned article and includes a thoughtful reaction to the

3592
03:26:05,120 --> 03:26:07,440
Speaker 19: material presented in the article. Please remember that your reaction

3593
03:26:07,560 --> 03:26:10,120
Speaker 19: paper should not be a summary, but rather a thoughtful

3594
03:26:10,160 --> 03:26:13,640
Speaker 19: discussion of some aspect of the article. Possible approaches to

3595
03:26:13,760 --> 03:26:16,400
Speaker 19: reaction papers include a discussion of why you feel the

3596
03:26:16,480 --> 03:26:19,360
Speaker 19: topic is important and worthy of study or not, or

3597
03:26:19,800 --> 03:26:23,400
Speaker 19: an application of the study or results to your own experiences.

3598
03:26:24,040 --> 03:26:28,360
Speaker 3: That's a broader prompt than I had otherwise imagined. Yeah.

3599
03:26:29,000 --> 03:26:32,240
Speaker 19: Other section is Reaction papers are graded on a twenty

3600
03:26:32,360 --> 03:26:34,960
Speaker 19: five point scale and are evaluated based on the following

3601
03:26:35,280 --> 03:26:37,640
Speaker 19: Does the paper show a clear tie to the assigned

3602
03:26:37,720 --> 03:26:41,320
Speaker 19: article ten points, Does paper present a thoughtful reaction or

3603
03:26:41,360 --> 03:26:43,600
Speaker 19: response to the article rather than a summary ten points?

3604
03:26:43,720 --> 03:26:46,440
Speaker 19: And is the paper clearly written five points. The best

3605
03:26:46,440 --> 03:26:49,120
Speaker 19: reaction papers illustrate the students have read the assigned materials

3606
03:26:49,240 --> 03:26:52,840
Speaker 19: and engaged in critical thinking about some aspect of the article.

3607
03:26:53,520 --> 03:26:56,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the way you would do that is

3608
03:26:56,120 --> 03:26:58,680
Speaker 3: to reference the article more than in the first line

3609
03:26:58,720 --> 03:27:01,720
Speaker 3: of your paper and then never again, right sure, which

3610
03:27:01,800 --> 03:27:04,160
Speaker 3: is what this person has done here. Look, at no

3611
03:27:04,280 --> 03:27:06,800
Speaker 3: point do they quote from the article, mention anything specifically

3612
03:27:06,800 --> 03:27:09,680
Speaker 3: the article says other than that it was very thought provoking.

3613
03:27:09,879 --> 03:27:12,400
Speaker 3: And then like they've seen the word gender and just

3614
03:27:12,520 --> 03:27:15,040
Speaker 3: gone off like a dog after a squirrel, right, like, yes,

3615
03:27:15,520 --> 03:27:18,400
Speaker 3: and then completely gone off on one about god.

3616
03:27:19,040 --> 03:27:21,560
Speaker 12: Yeah, that's a pretty broad prompt.

3617
03:27:22,160 --> 03:27:24,760
Speaker 3: It's broader than I would generally write a prompt, but

3618
03:27:25,400 --> 03:27:28,240
Speaker 3: that's okay with different approaches. They haven't specifically said in

3619
03:27:28,320 --> 03:27:31,080
Speaker 3: the prompt that they want people to cite their sources,

3620
03:27:31,240 --> 03:27:34,640
Speaker 3: which I normally do. But yeah, they haven't really shown

3621
03:27:34,680 --> 03:27:36,439
Speaker 3: any engagement with the article.

3622
03:27:36,200 --> 03:27:38,320
Speaker 19: Right Like, this isn't a fresh ofment, this isn't a

3623
03:27:38,400 --> 03:27:41,680
Speaker 19: software this is this is a junior well well into

3624
03:27:41,760 --> 03:27:46,400
Speaker 19: this semester. The response from the instructor was, quote, please note,

3625
03:27:46,400 --> 03:27:48,840
Speaker 19: I'm not deducting points because you have certain beliefs, but

3626
03:27:48,920 --> 03:27:51,560
Speaker 19: instead I'm deducting points where you're posting a reaction paper

3627
03:27:51,600 --> 03:27:54,840
Speaker 19: that does not answer the questions for the assignment, contradict itself,

3628
03:27:54,920 --> 03:27:58,640
Speaker 19: heavily uses personal ideology over empirical evidence in a scientific class,

3629
03:27:59,000 --> 03:28:01,960
Speaker 19: and is at times offensive. While you are entitled to

3630
03:28:02,040 --> 03:28:05,320
Speaker 19: your own personal beliefs, there is an appropriate time or

3631
03:28:05,360 --> 03:28:07,720
Speaker 19: place to implement them in your reflections. I encourage all

3632
03:28:07,760 --> 03:28:10,440
Speaker 19: students to question or challenge the course material with other

3633
03:28:10,640 --> 03:28:16,640
Speaker 19: empirical findings or testable hypotheses, but using your own personal

3634
03:28:16,680 --> 03:28:19,880
Speaker 19: beliefs to argue against the findings of not only this article,

3635
03:28:20,120 --> 03:28:23,320
Speaker 19: but the findings of countless articles across the ecology, biology, sociology,

3636
03:28:23,360 --> 03:28:27,160
Speaker 19: et cetera. Is not best practice unquote yeah so.

3637
03:28:27,640 --> 03:28:29,680
Speaker 3: Again this is a science class. I guess right late,

3638
03:28:29,840 --> 03:28:33,560
Speaker 3: Like this is not a scientific response. It is yeah, no,

3639
03:28:33,920 --> 03:28:34,920
Speaker 3: entirely vibespased.

3640
03:28:35,440 --> 03:28:38,879
Speaker 19: Before becoming a national news story, this grade was reviewed

3641
03:28:38,959 --> 03:28:42,840
Speaker 19: and approved by another instructor. This isn't just one instructor

3642
03:28:42,879 --> 03:28:46,039
Speaker 19: who happens to be trans This isn't just their personal grade.

3643
03:28:46,080 --> 03:28:51,600
Speaker 19: This was reviewed by another instructor. But on Thanksgiving TPUSA

3644
03:28:52,080 --> 03:28:55,520
Speaker 19: used this story to start a media blitz targeting this

3645
03:28:55,640 --> 03:28:59,920
Speaker 19: quote unquote mentally ill professor, this graduate student instructor, which

3646
03:29:00,080 --> 03:29:03,320
Speaker 19: has resulted in her being placed on leave as the

3647
03:29:03,440 --> 03:29:09,800
Speaker 19: university reviews this incident concerning illegal discrimination based on religious beliefs.

3648
03:29:10,480 --> 03:29:12,880
Speaker 3: That's not what that is, right, Like, like, I have

3649
03:29:13,040 --> 03:29:17,000
Speaker 3: watched the short form video about discrimination many times of

3650
03:29:17,200 --> 03:29:20,840
Speaker 3: my years instructing students, and like, this person wasn't discriminated

3651
03:29:20,879 --> 03:29:23,120
Speaker 3: against because of their beliefs. They were discriminated. They weren't

3652
03:29:23,120 --> 03:29:27,120
Speaker 3: discriminated against. They were graded for their response which was poor, for.

3653
03:29:27,200 --> 03:29:32,400
Speaker 19: Failing to follow the rules of these and again not

3654
03:29:32,680 --> 03:29:35,199
Speaker 19: not even as like a freshman who needs more clear

3655
03:29:35,520 --> 03:29:40,240
Speaker 19: like you know, first year uniche, Like, no, yeah, this

3656
03:29:40,360 --> 03:29:42,560
Speaker 19: is this is this is a psychology major in her

3657
03:29:42,720 --> 03:29:43,400
Speaker 19: junior year.

3658
03:29:43,720 --> 03:29:45,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, writing this response as a part.

3659
03:29:45,640 --> 03:29:48,200
Speaker 19: Of it, as a part of a pscient as a

3660
03:29:48,200 --> 03:29:51,400
Speaker 19: scientific psychology course where it's not about science at all.

3661
03:29:51,480 --> 03:29:54,879
Speaker 19: You're just talking about your own impression of what God

3662
03:29:55,080 --> 03:29:58,480
Speaker 19: wants out of gender roles and citing not not even sighting,

3663
03:29:58,560 --> 03:30:01,400
Speaker 19: but like pointing towards the whole spirit and the heavenly Father.

3664
03:30:02,120 --> 03:30:05,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and some Hebrew shit that you've translated. I know

3665
03:30:06,720 --> 03:30:10,800
Speaker 3: that most instructors who teach at universities now are very

3666
03:30:11,000 --> 03:30:15,760
Speaker 3: concerned about exactly this, right, about a student writing a

3667
03:30:15,800 --> 03:30:19,320
Speaker 3: paper which is just bad and then them going to

3668
03:30:19,920 --> 03:30:23,400
Speaker 3: the pretty much tp USA specific right and being like, yes,

3669
03:30:23,480 --> 03:30:25,800
Speaker 3: it came against me because they hate Jesus, and I

3670
03:30:25,840 --> 03:30:28,760
Speaker 3: can imagine that that is worse for trans and gender

3671
03:30:28,800 --> 03:30:34,000
Speaker 3: not conforming and otherwise absolutely instructors from conversations right like.

3672
03:30:34,640 --> 03:30:39,680
Speaker 19: No, absolutely, and like TPUSA first gained popularity for its

3673
03:30:39,800 --> 03:30:43,200
Speaker 19: like professor watch lists where people could report their like

3674
03:30:43,360 --> 03:30:46,879
Speaker 19: woke liberal professors, and this is this is the core

3675
03:30:46,959 --> 03:30:50,840
Speaker 19: part of the TPUSA model, is attacking academics and people

3676
03:30:50,879 --> 03:30:54,680
Speaker 19: who work in university in this instants like cause speculation

3677
03:30:54,800 --> 03:30:58,640
Speaker 19: of like how much of this essay was genuine versus

3678
03:30:58,800 --> 03:31:02,840
Speaker 19: was this intention only bad essay to provoke this response,

3679
03:31:02,959 --> 03:31:06,760
Speaker 19: which we can't we can't wonder. But the student has

3680
03:31:06,840 --> 03:31:09,520
Speaker 19: like risen to the ranks of like a minor conservative

3681
03:31:09,520 --> 03:31:13,199
Speaker 19: celebrity in these in these past two weeks. Yeah, because

3682
03:31:13,240 --> 03:31:17,520
Speaker 19: of this incident and is doing like TPUSA, like speaking,

3683
03:31:17,840 --> 03:31:22,360
Speaker 19: speaking appearances, news appearances. There's been dozens of articles across

3684
03:31:22,440 --> 03:31:25,360
Speaker 19: right wing outlets on this. It's it's turned into a

3685
03:31:25,520 --> 03:31:26,480
Speaker 19: legitimate story for them.

3686
03:31:26,959 --> 03:31:30,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do want to say, well, like it appears Garrison,

3687
03:31:30,280 --> 03:31:32,400
Speaker 3: I discussed this before, but it appears that this person

3688
03:31:32,520 --> 03:31:36,280
Speaker 3: is a grad student and not like a ten year

3689
03:31:36,440 --> 03:31:40,600
Speaker 3: professor adjunct, yes, certainly not tenured, right, Sure, therefore they

3690
03:31:40,640 --> 03:31:45,320
Speaker 3: are much more vulnerable and they have many fewer protections

3691
03:31:45,560 --> 03:31:48,160
Speaker 3: than a tenured professor would have. I don't know if

3692
03:31:48,160 --> 03:31:50,760
Speaker 3: they unionize. It depends on where they're teaching, right, But.

3693
03:31:51,000 --> 03:31:54,160
Speaker 19: Like University of Oklahoma, that is questionable.

3694
03:31:54,720 --> 03:31:59,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean possibilities points to know, But like, this

3695
03:31:59,720 --> 03:32:02,640
Speaker 3: is a series is fucking problem for anybody teaching in

3696
03:32:02,720 --> 03:32:06,200
Speaker 3: these fields, right, especially graduate students. Like I say especially,

3697
03:32:06,600 --> 03:32:09,680
Speaker 3: I mean imagine you're a graduate student on a student visa, right, Like,

3698
03:32:10,280 --> 03:32:15,480
Speaker 3: how do you approach teaching this when you know that

3699
03:32:15,800 --> 03:32:18,080
Speaker 3: you could end up on the TPUSA Instagram.

3700
03:32:18,480 --> 03:32:20,160
Speaker 19: It's trying to chill speech, right, This is this is

3701
03:32:20,200 --> 03:32:22,040
Speaker 19: part of what they're doing. They're turning this into a

3702
03:32:22,160 --> 03:32:25,560
Speaker 19: free speech crusade for religious discrimination. But what this is

3703
03:32:25,560 --> 03:32:29,560
Speaker 19: actually doing is chilling speech at universities by making it

3704
03:32:29,640 --> 03:32:32,039
Speaker 19: so you can't teach certain topics, especially if you happen

3705
03:32:32,120 --> 03:32:35,000
Speaker 19: to be trans to yourself. Otherwise TEPA USA in the

3706
03:32:35,040 --> 03:32:36,879
Speaker 19: right wing media system is going to turn your life

3707
03:32:36,879 --> 03:32:37,800
Speaker 19: into a living nightmare.

3708
03:32:38,680 --> 03:32:41,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. I've repeatedly seen a First Amendment cited and ref

3709
03:32:41,920 --> 03:32:44,480
Speaker 3: to this This has not got anything to do with

3710
03:32:44,600 --> 03:32:47,240
Speaker 3: the First Amendment. Like, the First Amendment doesn't give you

3711
03:32:47,320 --> 03:32:48,760
Speaker 3: the right to get a good grade for saying what

3712
03:32:48,840 --> 03:32:51,760
Speaker 3: the fuck you want? That's that's not in the First Amendment.

3713
03:32:52,320 --> 03:32:55,959
Speaker 3: But yeah, like Garrison said, it is chilling speech. Good news.

3714
03:32:56,320 --> 03:33:00,400
Speaker 3: Oklahoma University Workers United is a union sick okay, cool,

3715
03:33:00,440 --> 03:33:04,760
Speaker 3: and it includes grad student instructors unclear okay, hit us

3716
03:33:04,840 --> 03:33:07,680
Speaker 3: up o uwu and let.

3717
03:33:07,720 --> 03:33:10,440
Speaker 19: Us know before we close, I do want to mention

3718
03:33:11,400 --> 03:33:13,880
Speaker 19: another story that's happened this week, which is gonna prompt

3719
03:33:13,959 --> 03:33:18,440
Speaker 19: of a future episode probably next week. The online gambling

3720
03:33:18,480 --> 03:33:23,040
Speaker 19: platform cal She. I've never said it before. I'm saying

3721
03:33:23,120 --> 03:33:28,240
Speaker 19: Calsh has that a serial partnered with c Cashi. I

3722
03:33:28,280 --> 03:33:29,960
Speaker 19: you don't even know what you're talking about anymore. But

3723
03:33:30,280 --> 03:33:33,400
Speaker 19: the online gambling platform cal she is partnered with CNN

3724
03:33:33,600 --> 03:33:38,280
Speaker 19: and CNBC this past week to allow the news companies

3725
03:33:38,320 --> 03:33:42,320
Speaker 19: to use qute unquote real time prediction data for TV

3726
03:33:42,520 --> 03:33:47,680
Speaker 19: news segments and online content. This is not entirely surprising

3727
03:33:47,920 --> 03:33:51,200
Speaker 19: if people have been watching CNN like I have, like

3728
03:33:51,320 --> 03:33:55,680
Speaker 19: a complete maniac, because specifically this this past November and

3729
03:33:55,959 --> 03:33:59,360
Speaker 19: like this whole election season, news pundits on CNN have

3730
03:33:59,480 --> 03:34:02,280
Speaker 19: been using betting odds in place of polling data to

3731
03:34:02,400 --> 03:34:06,000
Speaker 19: weigh the likelihood of candidate's winning elections. This has become

3732
03:34:06,000 --> 03:34:09,120
Speaker 19: an increasingly common practice, specifically at CNN, and now it

3733
03:34:09,160 --> 03:34:13,320
Speaker 19: appears it's spreading to other news platforms like CNBC. How

3734
03:34:13,680 --> 03:34:18,760
Speaker 19: She announcement of the scene and partnership reads quote. CNN

3735
03:34:18,959 --> 03:34:23,199
Speaker 19: chief data analyst Harry Enton is an expert in translating

3736
03:34:23,280 --> 03:34:26,720
Speaker 19: what data and polling are saying on any given issue,

3737
03:34:27,240 --> 03:34:29,920
Speaker 19: and through this integration, he can tap into real time

3738
03:34:30,080 --> 03:34:34,000
Speaker 19: prediction markets data to better inform and fact check his

3739
03:34:34,360 --> 03:34:40,240
Speaker 19: reporting unquote what back checking his reporting with gambling data?

3740
03:34:40,440 --> 03:34:44,360
Speaker 19: Gambling odds from people who are betting on like if

3741
03:34:44,440 --> 03:34:46,520
Speaker 19: people are going to starve in Gaza, right, this is

3742
03:34:46,879 --> 03:34:49,960
Speaker 19: this is the sort of stuff that they bet on on. Caliche,

3743
03:34:50,160 --> 03:34:54,560
Speaker 19: not just who wins elections. Absurd, Jesus.

3744
03:34:55,000 --> 03:34:57,320
Speaker 1: I like that you've pronounced the day of this company

3745
03:34:57,720 --> 03:34:58,920
Speaker 1: several different see.

3746
03:34:58,959 --> 03:34:59,880
Speaker 19: I used to call it heal.

3747
03:35:00,240 --> 03:35:00,920
Speaker 3: This is the problem.

3748
03:35:01,720 --> 03:35:03,680
Speaker 19: I think it's I think it's Calshi. I think I

3749
03:35:03,720 --> 03:35:04,720
Speaker 19: think Calshi is correct.

3750
03:35:05,680 --> 03:35:09,360
Speaker 3: There's one possible benefit to this. Will it stop Nate

3751
03:35:09,440 --> 03:35:12,040
Speaker 3: Silva being so fucking annoying. No, it'll cause them to

3752
03:35:12,120 --> 03:35:13,360
Speaker 3: be more annoying games.

3753
03:35:13,560 --> 03:35:16,440
Speaker 19: How can you not see that this is this is

3754
03:35:16,560 --> 03:35:20,240
Speaker 19: a part of the nayverification of everything good and this

3755
03:35:20,640 --> 03:35:22,280
Speaker 19: this is what I want to talk about in the

3756
03:35:22,360 --> 03:35:24,680
Speaker 19: full piece. But but no, there was there was a

3757
03:35:24,760 --> 03:35:27,760
Speaker 19: Sena news segment in October twenty twenty five where this

3758
03:35:28,160 --> 03:35:31,800
Speaker 19: data analyst talked about how the odds of Democrats winning

3759
03:35:31,840 --> 03:35:36,480
Speaker 19: the midterms are going down via citing the Calshi odds,

3760
03:35:36,600 --> 03:35:39,160
Speaker 19: and then he did like three minutes of analysis using

3761
03:35:39,280 --> 03:35:42,440
Speaker 19: selective midterm voting data from twenty seventeen to twenty eighteen

3762
03:35:42,680 --> 03:35:45,320
Speaker 19: to support the movement in the gambling odds.

3763
03:35:45,400 --> 03:35:47,160
Speaker 3: Like that was the core piece of data. He was

3764
03:35:47,160 --> 03:35:51,960
Speaker 3: trying to explain, what the fuck? How big is this marketplace?

3765
03:35:52,120 --> 03:35:52,560
Speaker 19: Pretty big?

3766
03:35:52,800 --> 03:35:54,880
Speaker 3: Pretty big? Okay, so I couldn't just come in with

3767
03:35:55,000 --> 03:35:57,480
Speaker 3: like five hundred bucks and tip it.

3768
03:35:57,640 --> 03:35:59,400
Speaker 19: No, no, no, I mean it depends on what you're

3769
03:35:59,400 --> 03:36:01,959
Speaker 19: doing for like these sorts of big these like big races.

3770
03:36:02,040 --> 03:36:02,080
Speaker 22: No.

3771
03:36:02,400 --> 03:36:04,480
Speaker 19: But part of the real problem is is if you're

3772
03:36:04,680 --> 03:36:07,680
Speaker 19: just tuning in to CNN and reading the graphics, it's

3773
03:36:07,760 --> 03:36:10,360
Speaker 19: really hard to tell that this that these are gambling odds. Yeah,

3774
03:36:10,480 --> 03:36:13,520
Speaker 19: you're just seeing big percentages and they're only gonna mention

3775
03:36:13,760 --> 03:36:16,560
Speaker 19: that it's from quote unquote betting markets or prediction markets

3776
03:36:16,600 --> 03:36:18,880
Speaker 19: like once at the beginning of the segment. After that

3777
03:36:19,200 --> 03:36:22,160
Speaker 19: they treat the numbers like actual polling data. So it's

3778
03:36:22,640 --> 03:36:27,279
Speaker 19: really really manipulative. And unless you're like super paying attention

3779
03:36:27,320 --> 03:36:30,000
Speaker 19: to this whole segment, it'd be very easy to interpret

3780
03:36:30,080 --> 03:36:35,080
Speaker 19: these gambling numbers as genuine as genuine poll information. Wow,

3781
03:36:36,000 --> 03:36:41,080
Speaker 19: it's incredibly dangerous to democracy and uh overall kind of

3782
03:36:41,120 --> 03:36:43,160
Speaker 19: bad and fucked up, and it's gonna be spreading.

3783
03:36:43,360 --> 03:36:43,480
Speaker 1: Uh.

3784
03:36:44,120 --> 03:36:47,640
Speaker 19: The Calshi competitor poly Market partnered with X Everything app

3785
03:36:47,840 --> 03:36:50,760
Speaker 19: and Yahoo Financed earlier this year to integrate their quote

3786
03:36:50,840 --> 03:36:55,920
Speaker 19: unquote prediction data into content on x and Yahoo Finance.

3787
03:36:56,840 --> 03:36:58,600
Speaker 3: It's only going to become more and more common.

3788
03:36:58,959 --> 03:37:01,879
Speaker 1: Well, you're gonna you of a long form episode on.

3789
03:37:01,920 --> 03:37:04,560
Speaker 3: This, I will Yeah, this sucks. I'm just looking at

3790
03:37:04,600 --> 03:37:05,360
Speaker 3: this website now.

3791
03:37:05,400 --> 03:37:08,800
Speaker 1: It sucks. I don't like this at all.

3792
03:37:11,560 --> 03:37:13,520
Speaker 3: If you would like to email us, you can do

3793
03:37:13,680 --> 03:37:17,119
Speaker 3: so by reaching out to cool Zone tips at proton

3794
03:37:17,720 --> 03:37:18,160
Speaker 3: dot me.

3795
03:37:18,959 --> 03:37:22,360
Speaker 19: That does for us that it could happen here. We

3796
03:37:22,520 --> 03:37:25,199
Speaker 19: reported the news, and now you can bet on the news.

3797
03:37:26,600 --> 03:37:27,520
Speaker 15: We reported the news.

3798
03:37:31,840 --> 03:37:35,000
Speaker 2: Hey, We'll be back Monday, with more episodes every week

3799
03:37:35,080 --> 03:37:36,959
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the Universe.

3800
03:37:37,760 --> 03:37:40,199
Speaker 3: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

3801
03:37:40,440 --> 03:37:43,440
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3802
03:37:43,560 --> 03:37:47,080
Speaker 1: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

3803
03:37:47,200 --> 03:37:50,920
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts can now

3804
03:37:51,000 --> 03:37:53,200
Speaker 1: find sources for it Could Happen Here, listed directly in

3805
03:37:53,280 --> 03:37:55,440
Speaker 1: episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.