1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, 2 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all 3 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: the small decisions we can make to become the best 4 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard 5 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more 6 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: information or to find a therapist in your area, visit 7 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While 8 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, 9 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: it is not meant to be a substitute for relationship 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so 11 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: much for joining me for session to twelve of the 12 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girl's podcast. We'll get right into the 13 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: episode after a word from our sponsors. We've talked here 14 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: on the podcast about black women's relationships with their mothers, 15 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: and many of you have asked for an expansion of 16 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: that conversation to discuss relationships with fathers. The term daddy 17 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: issues is often thrown around, usually callously, to depict the 18 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: difficulties some believe women have in romantic relationships as a 19 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: result of the relationship they've had with their fathers, and 20 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: today we wanted to dig deeper into this to explore 21 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: how black women's relationships with their fathers can impact us. 22 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: For this conversation, I was joined by Nick Hardy. Nick 23 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: is a licensed clinical social worker who provides individual and 24 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: couples counseling as well as relationship coaching in Texas. He 25 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: completed his master's degree in social work at the University 26 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: of Texas Arlington and now works full time as a 27 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: therapist while completing his PhD at the University of Houston. 28 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: Nick and I discuss whether there is an impact on 29 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: romantic relationships related to our relationships with our fathers, what 30 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,399 Speaker 1: kinds of qualities leads to healthier father and daughter relationships, 31 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: healing from a damaged relationship with your father? And he 32 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,519 Speaker 1: answers some of the questions submitted by community members. If 33 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please be 34 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: sure to share it with us on social media using 35 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: the hashtag tv g in Session. Here's our conversation. Well, 36 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today. Nick, Hey, 37 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: I'm glad to be here. Thank you guys so much 38 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 1: for having me on. Yeah, we're very, very excited to 39 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: chat with youth in pop culture and just in our 40 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 1: everyday language, we will often hear this term thrown around 41 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: daddy issues, right, So this idea that if you don't 42 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: have a strong relationship with your dad, then you're kind 43 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: of doomed in all relationships with future men. And so 44 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 1: I would love for you to just art by telling 45 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: us a little bit about how, if at all, the 46 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: father daughter relationship influences a daughter's quality of relationships with 47 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 1: other men. Yeah. Absolutely, and so I definitely think it's 48 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: not accurate, you know, to assume that you're doomed, right 49 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: if you didn't have your father, or if you had 50 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 1: an unhealthy relationship with your father. But at the same time, 51 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 1: I definitely believe their fathers played a huge role in 52 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: daughters and just their relationship with men. It's important, I 53 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: think for you know, many women who don't have that 54 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: healthy relationship to really just explore the impact that their 55 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: father had on their lives, you know, whether it's through 56 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: just them being absent, or if they were inconsistent, or 57 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: they were there and created a toxic environment, whether it's 58 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: a man and or a woman, you know, but specifically 59 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: with women, I definitely think there's an impact when there's 60 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: an unhealthy relationship with the father. Can you say more 61 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: about that, how you kind of see that show up? Yeah, absolutely, so, 62 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: I think it shows up. And one of the biggest 63 00:03:55,760 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: ways that I see is just the standard that you 64 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: grow accustomed to. Unfortunately, you see a lot of times 65 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: many successful women who oftentimes find themselves in this cycle relationally, 66 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: and then when you kind of dig a little bit deeper, 67 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: you see that they had an unhealthy relationship with their father. 68 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: And again that's not all women, but a lot of 69 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: times that's the case, and unfortunately, I think it's many 70 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: cases because of this unhealthy standard. So as much as 71 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: you know that it's unhealthy, as much as you know 72 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: that it's intuitively this is not right, in some ways, unfortunately, 73 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: you grow accustomed to it, and so as you kind 74 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: of venture off into the dating world, in many ways, 75 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 1: it's almost like this gravitational pool that takes you back 76 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: to this unhealthy standard. And so that that's one of 77 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 1: the areas that I see. And you see it even 78 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: in some of the statistics, you know, where you see 79 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: a lot of times that there was abuse in the home. 80 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: You know, people who were abused are more likely to 81 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: be in a relationship with someone that's that's also an abuser, 82 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: and you're like, how does that happen out of all 83 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: the people, how did you find the one person that 84 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 1: was an abusive? It's because of that standard, unfortunately, you know, 85 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: that becomes the norm. And then also I think that 86 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 1: just influences your perception of men as well. You know, 87 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: if you grew up in a home and dad was 88 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: not a positive role model, that's your first teacher when 89 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: it comes to mail daughter relationships. And so sometimes your 90 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: perception of men is skewed, and so as you approach relationships, 91 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:27,359 Speaker 1: a lot of times it's through the lens of this 92 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: skewed perception, and I think that has an adverse effect 93 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: as well. So, Nick, I wonder if we can talk 94 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: about because we know everybody doesn't come from homes with 95 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: like moms and dad's right, Like some people have two 96 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: moms or you know, a different family constellation. And so 97 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 1: is it as much about the way that you see 98 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: the man kind of interacting with other people or is 99 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: it the way that you see adults interacting with one another. Yeah, 100 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 1: I think it's about the way you see adults interacting 101 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: with one another inside of the home, you know, and 102 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 1: again in a traditional since that's a man and a woman. 103 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: But that's not always the case. I definitely believe that 104 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: it's just how you see adults, you know. And as 105 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: I always say, your parents are your first teacher, you know. 106 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: And so if the first lesson you learn about relationships 107 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 1: is unhealthy, then how does that affect the trajectory of 108 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: relationships moving forward? And I wonder if you can talk 109 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: a little bit about the bond between daughters and fathers 110 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: and how that may be influences future relationships. I think 111 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: it's special, right when you have a father daughter relationship 112 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: or bond, it's uniquely special, right, And so I think 113 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: when that's not the case and that bond is missing, 114 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: I believe in what I've seen and just in my 115 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: practice a lot of times is there's difficulty establishing that 116 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: intimate and close bond with men in general. Again, that's 117 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: not always the case, right. I definitely have seen enough 118 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: instances where women a lot of times, who reach out 119 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: for counseling, who have struggled. Whether it's the man is 120 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: the woman, or it's a mixture of both. A lot 121 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: of times it goes back to that father factor. The 122 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: bond between a father and his daughter is a two 123 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: way street to right. I mean you also have to 124 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: think in terms of how a daughter and positively influences 125 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: a man. You know, he becomes more open, more vulnerable, 126 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: you know, explores aspects of himself that he may not 127 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: have tapped into. It is something about a daughter that 128 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: just brings something out, you know, in that I think 129 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: a daughter is able to see various aspects of a 130 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: man in different light. You know, it's not just old dad. 131 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: The provider is dad who you know has a more 132 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: softer side or a little bit more open, a little 133 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: bit more vulnerable. Mm hmmm. And can you say a 134 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: little bit more nick about this idea, because I feel 135 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: like this kind of taps into some of the other 136 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: conversations we've had on the podcast just around like these 137 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: gender roles in relationships. And so I hear you saying 138 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: like sometimes a daughter brings this out in a dad. 139 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: Can you say more about like what that looks like. Well, 140 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: I'll use a personal example. I a daughter, you know, 141 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: and she's like, hey, Dad, get on the floor and 142 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: play barbies with me, you know, And typically that's not 143 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: my that's not what I do just on the day 144 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: to day. But because it's my daughter, and because I 145 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: love her. I'm on the floor and I'm rolled playing 146 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: and doing the hair and doing the nails. Only my 147 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: daughter could bring that out. And so just that the 148 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: willingness to get outside of your comfort zone and to 149 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: just be open and just be in that moment, I 150 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: think a lot of times is an extension of that bond. 151 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: You know, we often see like this gender bias when 152 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: it comes to parenting. Right, it's a little girls should 153 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: do these kinds of things, a little boys should do 154 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: these kinds of things. And I'm wondering, you know, how 155 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 1: do you recognize that for yourself and your parenting and 156 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: you know, trying to make sure that you're being effective 157 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: as a parent. Absolutely, I mean we all have certain bias, 158 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: you know, and I think you recognize that when you 159 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: find yourself interrupting your child and their normal you know, 160 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: just being per se. Right, if my daughter grabbed the 161 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: football and I'm like, hey, little girls don't play like 162 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: She's just grabbing a ball to her right. But if 163 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: I interrupt what's normal or just natural to her, then 164 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: that's my body is coming through, you know, and in 165 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: many ways it's blocking her from just being who she is. 166 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: I'm boxing her into what I believe or my perception 167 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: of what a woman should do. And the same happens 168 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: with the son as well too. M hmmmm. So I 169 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: want to go back to an earlier partuct of our 170 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: conversation because you said, sometimes you will see in adulthood, 171 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 1: you know, if they had not had a healthy relationship, 172 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: or if the relationship with dad was toxic. I'm wondering 173 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 1: what some of those unhealthy characteristics are toxic behaviors might 174 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 1: have looked like, Like what kinds of things between a 175 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: father and daughter might show up later in life. Yeah, yeah, 176 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: I think Well again, I think one of it is 177 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: just the decision making process and the filter when it 178 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: comes to selecting men. I think that's where you see 179 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: it most often. Again, you'll see someone who is super successful, 180 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: well accomplished, but when it comes to relationships, there's a discrepancy, like, man, 181 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: why didn't you see these red flags? Or why you know, 182 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: do you keep kind of going after this same type 183 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: of man? And I think that's where you first see it, 184 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: just in in the decision making process, you know. And 185 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: sometimes you're gonna catch a couple of brothers to surprise you, 186 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: you know, But a lot of times it's obvious, and 187 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: I really believe that is in many cases a direct 188 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: reflection of just the unhealthy relationship that a woman may 189 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: have with their father. And again not always the case, 190 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: but a lot of times it is. M And do 191 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: you think it is them kind of trying to find 192 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: their father in partners? Yeah, is that what it is? 193 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: I think that's part of it, you know. And then 194 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: again I think it's it goes back to that just 195 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: it's normal, right, and we gravitate to where we're most comfortable. 196 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: And so if you have a relationship with toxicity, as 197 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: much as you know it's toxic in many ways, is 198 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: that's where you're most comfortable. And so again I think 199 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: you keep going back, whether it's too to find your father, 200 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: and sometimes you go back to in a way to 201 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: try to heal your father, you know. And I think 202 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: that's where you see a lot of times many daughters 203 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: take on this role of I'm going to fix him. 204 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: M It's not him, it's really the father that they're 205 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: trying to fix. Yeah. Yeah, either heal the father or 206 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: heal the relationship they wish they would have had with 207 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: their fathers. Absolutely absolutely through this relationship. Mm hmmm. So 208 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: if you and it sounds like you see this, you know, 209 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: relatively often maybe in your practice. What does it look 210 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: like to identify and like break some of those patterns 211 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: of you know, kind of continuing to try to heal 212 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: your father or heal your relationship with your father in 213 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 1: your present day relationships. How do we recognize that for 214 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: ourselves and do the work of undoing that. Yeah, yeah, 215 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: I think so. First, I think it's just awareness, you know. 216 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: I think when you begin to, like I begin to 217 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: work with a lot of women who have you know, 218 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,439 Speaker 1: experienced this trauma and just abandonment and just all types 219 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 1: of issues as it relates to their father. Sometimes as 220 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: a way of coping, you know, they've just pushed through it, 221 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: you know, out of sight, out of mind. But when 222 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: we sit down and we really just began to go 223 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: deep and really talk through it, there's a lot of 224 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: hurt that was covered up, you know, and a lot 225 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: of hurts sometimes it's revealed, and just becoming aware of 226 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: it in and of itself makes you more able to 227 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: address some of those areas, because you can't fix anything 228 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: that you don't know exists, and so that's a huge 229 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: part of it. Going beyond the surface. Going beyond what 230 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: may be obvious to really tap into some of these 231 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: hidden areas is the first step. And then from there, 232 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: depending on what it is, you know, really being able 233 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 1: to work through that process it, you know, put certain 234 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: resources in place and just kind of support them as 235 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: they go through that process. And I'm wondering if you 236 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: have any suggestion is for parents who might be listening 237 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: or joining us for how they might be able to 238 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: do some of this healthy relationship modeling for the young 239 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: people in their lives. M H. I think one of 240 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: the best ways that a parent can model healthy relationships 241 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: is through their relationship with their spouse, you know, and 242 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: I'm speaking specifically to fathers. And even if you're not 243 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: with the mother, right, I think you can still being 244 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: a healthy relationship. And you can't say oh, I love 245 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: my daughter and then mistreat a mom. You know that 246 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: the two just don't go together. So kids learned by observation, 247 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: and so if she observes you as a parent doing 248 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: healthy relationships, you know, being kind and generous and following 249 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: through on your word and I mean just all of 250 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 1: those things that go along with making a relationship work, 251 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: then without you ever saying a word you're already setting 252 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: the standard of what a healthy relationship looks like. And 253 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: I guess, you know, kind of going back to our 254 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: earlier point, not only between like romantic partners or maybe 255 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: former romantic partners, but even with other people in their lives, right, 256 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: you know, like if mom has a healthy relationship with 257 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,199 Speaker 1: her own dad, that is also something that the young 258 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: person picks up on. Oh yeah, yeah, And I mean 259 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: it work and co workers and even the waitress, you know, 260 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: I mean just all of these small interactions, you know, 261 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: if I, you know, go to church and then leaving 262 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: and curse the waiter out, you know, it's it kind 263 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: of creates a weird picture for a child. And so 264 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: the kids are always watching. Kids are always watching. And 265 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: I read this quote one time that's just stuck out 266 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: with me and said, the kids have a great recorder 267 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: with a horrible interpreters. And so a child is always 268 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: recording what their parents are doing, whether it's with their 269 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: significant other spouse, whether it's you know, the barber, the beautician, 270 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: like just how you live your life. Kids are watching 271 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: and they pick up on that. And because kids traditionally 272 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: look up to their parents before they even know that 273 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: they're looking up to them. They're paying attention, and they're 274 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: watching these these different interactions. More from my conversation with 275 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: Nick after the break. You know, Nick, I would love 276 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: to hear kind of what kinds of questions you are 277 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: asking to help people kind of unlock maybe some of 278 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: these things that are unconscious for them around their relationships 279 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: with their fathers. That's a good one. Yeah, it really 280 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: is what specific questions am I asking? You know, I 281 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: always asked them if they could go back and get 282 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: one thing, what would it be? Or if there was 283 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: one missing element to their relationship, you know, if they 284 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: could feel the gap, what would it be? And just 285 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: you know, and a lot of times I capture those 286 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: questions through memories. You know, tell me a time where 287 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: you wanted your dad to be there and he wasn't, 288 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: you know, Or tell me a time to stand doubt 289 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: most that that you always seem to go back to, 290 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: because those vivid memories oftentimes connect to a larger picture, 291 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: you know, and it's not the incident itself, but it's 292 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: what it represents. So for instance, and this happened recently, 293 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: I'm asked to, you know, young lady like she was 294 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: talking about her dad saying that he was gonna come 295 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: pick her up but then never showed up. And then 296 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: I asked her what does that represent to you? And 297 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: she said, for her, it represented that men are undependable. 298 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: You know, men can say one thing but then do 299 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: something totally different. And so in her current relationship, anything 300 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: that was remotely closed, remotely closed, you know, to someone 301 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: not following through, she had a very visceral reaction to it. 302 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: And it could be as small as, hey, I'm gonna 303 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: put that dish up to you know, you forgot to 304 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: take the trash out, you know. To her, it was 305 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: you didn't follow through, you didn't do this, and and 306 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: I'm not going to allow someone to come in and 307 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: not do what they say. But it really steems from 308 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: the trauma that she experienced growing up, you know, so 309 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 1: I really try to capture that one question in terms 310 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 1: of memories, instances, you know, where they were most impacted. 311 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, yeah, Because we've talked about, you know, how 312 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: sometimes women will try to work through our heal their 313 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 1: father through relationships. Another thing that can happen is that 314 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: they want to avoid relationships altogether, right, you know, So 315 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 1: sometimes you see this when people kind of are throwing 316 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: themselves into their work, are like, oh, I don't need 317 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 1: anybody kind of thing, right, Like some of that can 318 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: be a result of that trauma as well. Oh yeah, yeah, 319 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: you see that a lot, you know. And then sometimes 320 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: with life it catches up to you and you say, 321 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: you know what, I actually do want a relationship. And 322 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: that's happened just through counseling. A lot of times women said, 323 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 1: you know what, I've been carrying this this facade of 324 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: not wanting something that I really do want, but was 325 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: afraid that I wouldn't be able to obtain. And so 326 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: that's a whole another conversation. You know. Have you seen 327 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: a difference in things that show up for somebody who 328 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: maybe had an unhealthier, toxic relationship with their dad versus 329 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: dad not being present at all? Does that look different? 330 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 1: It does, but in many ways it doesn't, you know. 331 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: I think it really just depends. Sometimes as crazy as 332 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: it sounds, it's actually better than dad wasn't there because 333 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: now and I mean that like breaks my heart to say, 334 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 1: you know, it really does. But if dad isn't the 335 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: home and he's abusive to mom, then you're almost re 336 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: traumatized every time you witness that if he says, hey, 337 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: I'm coming this weekend, and then he comes, but then 338 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: the next three times he doesn't like, that's re traumatizing 339 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 1: and that's hope meant with disappointment. And so when Dad's 340 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: not in the equation, sometimes you can at least establish 341 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:56,360 Speaker 1: some normalcy. It provides consistency, you know. I still think 342 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,199 Speaker 1: there's a lot of issues to unpack when Dad's not 343 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: in the home, and I definitely would not encourage it, 344 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 1: but sometimes it's a blessing in disguise. So we have 345 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: gotten a question quite a lot around sisters who are 346 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: healing after the abandonment of their fathers. Right, So I 347 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: would love for you to be able to talk about 348 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: maybe if you've had any experience working with clients or 349 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: things that you would share for people who have dealt 350 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: with this very significant loss in their lives and feeling 351 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: abandoned by their fathers. Yeah, I think it's real. So 352 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: I think even just that, right, embracing the reality of 353 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,239 Speaker 1: what you didn't get and in many ways what you 354 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: can't get because for whatever reason that's not in the picture, 355 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 1: you know, is a part of the healing process. And 356 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 1: I think you can heal and still be hurting too. 357 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: And so even just acknowledging that is important. Right, just 358 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,719 Speaker 1: because you still experienced some hurt and you know, some 359 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: resentment doesn't mean that you're not working through your own healing. 360 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: It's just like when you lose a parent, right, you 361 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 1: still feel that pain. You know. It may not be 362 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: as intense, you know, you it may not be as pervasive, 363 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 1: but for many people it could be the smallest thing. 364 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: And you just have a vivid memory of when your 365 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 1: parents were there, you know. So the goal a lot 366 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: of times isn't so much to not feel anything, but 367 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: to not allow those feelings to impede other relationships in 368 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: other aspects of their lives. Well, you said a mouthful 369 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 1: of their nick, I mean, and I think that's incredibly 370 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: important because I think related to you know, issues with 371 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 1: their father, issues with anything in your life. I think 372 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: a lot of people really stop themselves from starting this 373 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: healing process because they're afraid of like, how am I 374 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: going to manage this? Right? Like this feels like such 375 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 1: a huge hole. How can I possibly put myself in 376 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: a position to even you know, manage the enormity I 377 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,679 Speaker 1: think of the sadness or whatever that might pipe up 378 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 1: for them. Yeah, and I think that's where just support 379 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: comes along, you know, whether it's through counseling, whether it's 380 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 1: through you know, family, whether it's through trusted friends, and 381 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: you know, because you're not alone. I think that is 382 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: sometimes a very heavy emotion to carry by yourself, and 383 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: so I wouldn't encourage that. I would encourage to enroll 384 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: the help of other people. And even when you need 385 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: help processing and just dealing with the on slaught of 386 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: emotions that it sometimes comes about when you go there, 387 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: you know, just being able to lean into your relationship 388 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,479 Speaker 1: with other people is super important. Yeah, you know, you 389 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that kids are great recorders but horrible interpreters. 390 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: I would imagine that a lot of this work as 391 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: an adult really is about taking care of that young 392 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,159 Speaker 1: child a long time ago, right, So a lot of 393 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: the work that you're doing as an adult is now 394 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: like soothing that young person inside of you who didn't 395 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: grow up with your father or you know, felt abandoned 396 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 1: or felt like you didn't have the relationship that you 397 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: wanted to have. M Yeah, it is, it really is. 398 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 1: I Mean, there's a a little girl and every woman 399 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: and it's kind of a little boy and every man, right, 400 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: So sometimes we're responding or reacting to situations based off 401 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: of that. It's just real, you know, you see it. 402 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: And I think sometimes we we get blinded sometimes by 403 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: accomplishments and the strength, but man, when Dad wasn't there, 404 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: there's a part of us that still may wrestle with that. 405 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: So can you say what that looks like like maybe 406 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: when you're working with a client, Like, what would the 407 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,719 Speaker 1: process of you helping them start to heal look like 408 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: in counseling? Yeah, so, I mean, in addition to kind 409 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,679 Speaker 1: of exploring some of those aspects of one of the 410 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: biggest ways I help people is I'll give you an example. 411 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: So someone who and I'm generalizing here of course this 412 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: is everyone, but say someone has a very anxious attachment style, 413 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: you know, and it's really driven from this fear of abandonment, 414 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 1: you know, me really helping them understand the origins of 415 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: that anxiousness, you know, And it's not their spouse who 416 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: came five and it's late. It's really this fear of 417 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: them never showing up and so really being able to 418 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 1: process what is happened currently versus your response or your 419 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 1: fear based off of what if what may have happened 420 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: in the past, you know, and then really kind of 421 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: looking at some alternative coping strategies as well too, you know, 422 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: so you can kind of sit and just process those 423 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: emotions without reacting in a way that's unhealthy. And again, 424 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: it looks different for so many different people, but just 425 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 1: using that anxious attachment style as an example, you know, 426 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: I've seen that to be beneficial when you look at 427 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: alternative ways to really respond to the feeling of anxiousness. 428 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 1: And then part of it comes with understanding where it 429 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: came from. But then also it comes with developing new 430 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: habits as it relates to when it does happen. You know, 431 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: this happened. Traditionally I responded like this. Now it's this happens. 432 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: I look at responding a different way, you know, And 433 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 1: as result of responding a different way, a lot of 434 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: times my relationships benefit and they're in a healthier place, 435 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: you know, because I'm not coming home saying, well, you 436 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: said you're gonna call it three o'clock and it's three 437 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 1: or three. You know, it's like, you know what, Yeah, 438 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,399 Speaker 1: you should have called it three, but it's it's okay, 439 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's okay, And so get can you say 440 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: a little bit more about attachment styles, Nick, I mean 441 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: I think that that's something we've talked about on the 442 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 1: podcast before. But for anybody who maybe doesn't know what 443 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 1: attachment styles mean, can you give us a little primer 444 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,360 Speaker 1: on that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I mean attachment styles 445 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: essentially when your relationship with your parents growing up, in 446 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: your early childhood. I mean, initially, this is where it 447 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: came from, is you know, people developing a secure attachment. 448 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: But as adults, especially when we didn't have a secure attachment, 449 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: people respond differently. So, for instance, some people have an 450 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: anxious attachment style, some people have an avoidant attachment style. 451 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: On the other extreme, outside of the anxious attachment style, 452 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,439 Speaker 1: whereas someone who overly responds, the person who has an 453 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: avoidant they under respond. You know, something comes up in 454 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: that relationship that's challenging, they just shut down. I'm not 455 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,880 Speaker 1: dealing with that, you know, they go the complete opposite direction. 456 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: And so again two polar opposites to extremes. But attachment styles, 457 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: the central is just how you attached to other people 458 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: in the context of your relationship based off of some 459 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 1: of your early childhood experiences. Thank you for that. I 460 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: appreciate it, you know, Nick, I work primarily into personally 461 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 1: with clients, and so I'm very curious one because there 462 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 1: are not many brothers in the field, right, So I'm 463 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: sure you are a bit of a unicorn just in 464 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 1: the field, but also someone particularly working with women with 465 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 1: other issues. Right. I would imagine that there is maybe 466 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: some transference, some dynamic that is created that would look 467 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: very different if they talking to me about relationship issues 468 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: with their father. Can you share a little bit about 469 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 1: maybe like some of the things that you have worked 470 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: through or some of the things that have come up 471 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: because you are a male therapist. Yeah, it boils down 472 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: to this one line that I hear almost every week, 473 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: and that is I just want a man's perspective. I 474 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: just want a man's perspective. Same issue, you know, I 475 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: just want a man's perspective, like as a father, as 476 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: a husband talked me through this, and a lot of 477 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: times it's hearing from a man. Is what I'm feeling. 478 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: Is that Okay, you know it's a weird way. It's 479 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: like this, you know, validating some of the emotions. You know, 480 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: in many ways I feel hurt from a man. It's similar, 481 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 1: very similar to what you would probably share, you know, 482 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: I mean it's not identical. I would hope, you know, 483 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 1: if I'm saying what Dr Joyce saying and we could, right, 484 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 1: But because it's coming from a man, sometimes it may 485 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: resonate differently, you know, or again if there's a certain 486 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: cycle in the intimate relationships. Right, it's like, Okay, I've 487 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: been going through this. I've been going through this, and 488 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: I hear my girlfriends, but I want to hear from 489 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,919 Speaker 1: someone else who's a professional, and so I get a 490 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: lot of that. Mm hmmmmm. Yeah. And I would imagine, 491 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 1: you know, for anybody struggling with feeling like they've been 492 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 1: abandoned by their father or other men in their lives, 493 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 1: like the consistency of like seeing you every week on time, 494 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 1: you know, like that that also kind of helps to 495 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 1: change this narrative about like what men do in my life. 496 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and that's you know, that's one of 497 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: my prayers as well too. You know I'm not perfect, right, 498 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 1: but just seeing a professional who operates professionally, right, I'm married, 499 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: you know, got a daughter. You know, it's no funny business, right, 500 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: So just that I would hope provide some hope you 501 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: know that. Hey, like, hold up, you know, I'm not 502 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 1: a YouTube star. You know, there's just saying and them stuff. 503 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's back. I mean obviously a lot 504 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 1: of evidence based interventions in support and so yeah, I 505 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,360 Speaker 1: mean I definitely even though it may not be articulated 506 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: in that way, that is my hope that through that 507 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: consistency and just operating with integrity that it does, you know, 508 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 1: create a different narrata. M have you had to deal 509 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 1: with any of that? Nick? You mentioned like you're not 510 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 1: a YouTube so have you had to do a lot 511 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 1: of kind of unlearning from what people may be learning 512 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: from YouTube? Not so much me, right, But people do 513 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: come with this. I heard this on you know, and 514 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: I'm like, uh, I don't necessarily agree with that. I 515 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: think I don't necessarily have to alert because I am 516 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: intentional on what I listened to. But a lot of 517 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: people come with a lot of advice that they've heard 518 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: via social media. You know. I even have good friends 519 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: who reach out to me like what you think about this? 520 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: You know, this is some good stuff, right, And really 521 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: I'm like, uh, maybe you're right right? Probably not. More 522 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: from my conversation with Nick after the break So, Nick, 523 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: do you have thoughts about what role do we have 524 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: in shaping the relationship with our father, if at all? 525 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: And I would imagine that this changes throughout your life, right, 526 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: Like this might look different in adulthood than it would 527 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: when you were five. Gosh, that's a good one. And 528 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people are at this cross road, you know, 529 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: and they say, I want this relationship with my father. 530 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: Obviously he's been out of the picture. What role do 531 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: I have in mending that relationship, you know? And so 532 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: a lot of times would I encourage people to do 533 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: is first, your responsibility is to your own healing, right, 534 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 1: and so that sometimes doesn't come through you re establishing 535 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: a relationship with your father, and when you kind of 536 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: own that right, like, hey, my dad for whatever reason 537 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: wasn't there. It created this harm. But I'm gonna own 538 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: my healing even though I wasn't responsible for causing to hurt, 539 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: you know. I think that helps create a certain expectation 540 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: when it comes to re engaging your father, right. And 541 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: so the second thing I encourage people is engage so 542 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: as long as it's safe. You know, if you find 543 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: yourself being retraumatized, then it may not be safe for 544 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: you to re engage that relationship, and then the next 545 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: step comes into being able to be at peace with 546 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: what you didn't get through your father. And that's a 547 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: tough one, you know, it really is, because a lot 548 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: of times, a lot of clients I work with it like, 549 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: I just don't understand you had a great daughter. Why 550 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: weren't you there? And I feel like that's one of 551 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: the eighth wonders of the world. You know. I don't 552 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: understand it either, you know, you know, And that's tough 553 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: for me to be honest with you because that's one 554 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: of the few times in therapy where I'm just completely stuck. 555 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: I don't get it, you know. And we can make 556 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: up all these reasons, oh, your mama's this, and you 557 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: know what I mean that that just doesn't make sense, right, 558 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: because the truth of the matter is people have been 559 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: in similar, if not worse situations and have still been there, 560 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: you know. And so when I have a client, specifically 561 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,719 Speaker 1: a woman's you know, I'm working with, and she's in 562 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: tears and she literally is at a loss, and I 563 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: have men who have been in this place too, like, man, 564 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: why wasn't he there? I had me in my office 565 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: all the time and tears, like I can't get it. 566 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: I can't understand it, especially when you have a child 567 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: yourself and you see just the beauty and the joy 568 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: that comes along with that, and it's like, how do 569 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: you walk away from this? You know? M that's tough, Yeah, 570 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: And I would imagine that because it it doesn't really 571 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: make sense, right, And I think that is the tough 572 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: part of our job as therapist, is that we're not 573 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: always going to be able to help you make it 574 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: make sense, but we can sit with you in the 575 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: ambiguity right that it doesn't make any sense. And I 576 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: think it's really hard to think about any other reason 577 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: besides it being something that I did right, like I 578 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: was unlovable, or I wasn't a good child, or I 579 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: wasn't you know. When you said the thing about you know, 580 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: like I was such a good daughter, it made me 581 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: think about how many people then spend their lives trying 582 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: to be like amazing because they want to make this 583 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: like father who isn't in the picture like proud of them? Right. 584 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 1: I feel like I agree with you. I think that 585 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: is a very difficult thing because it doesn't make sense. Yeah, 586 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't It doesn't. And that's an important 587 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: part of it too, right, not internalizing someone's mistakes and 588 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: your own. That's very tough because again we I mean, 589 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: it's just how our brains are wire, like we try 590 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: to understand, you know, like, well, there has to be 591 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: a reason, you know, and so and I think when 592 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,719 Speaker 1: we quote find a reason, I think that's where we 593 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: borderline start to justify. You know, this happened and therefore 594 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: that didn't happen, you know, And it almost takes the 595 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: responsibility away from the person there who needs to own 596 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: the responsibility of not being there. So m yeah, I 597 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: would imagine that that is, whether they know it or not, 598 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: a lot of what brings people to therapy is that 599 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: they have spent all this time trying to pick apart 600 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: why something didn't happen based on somebody else's behavior when 601 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: it really has nothing to do with us. But yeah, 602 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: it's nothing, you've done nothing. My daughter could she could 603 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: shoot me, you know, and I'm probably like, oh man, 604 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 1: that's messed up, but I'm still gonna be there, you know. 605 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: So it literally is a decision that someone makes that 606 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: is apart from you. And I think that's a message 607 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: that many women need to hear you didn't do anything 608 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: that made him not be there or show up in 609 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: the ways you would have liked a little Yeah. Yeah, 610 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: So we have a couple of community questions that we're 611 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: sending into it. We would love to get your thoughts on. Yeah. 612 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,799 Speaker 1: So the first one is how do you develop a 613 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: relationship with your father when he doesn't feel like he 614 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: has to explain a twenty year absence? Well, I think 615 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: you Again, I think this goes back to the expectations 616 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: that you have with the relationship. You know, is the 617 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: expectation for him to understand or is the expectation for 618 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 1: you to meet him where he is? You know? And 619 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: I think this speaks to the conversation around boundaries because again, 620 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:47,879 Speaker 1: some people unfortunately are just like they don't have that 621 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,240 Speaker 1: level of introspection to say, I wasn't there for twenty 622 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: years because of me, I made that decision. Some people 623 00:34:54,680 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: continuously blame situations individuals for them circumstances, and so if 624 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 1: that's the case, you know, then I would recognize that, like, man, 625 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 1: my dad is, he's not gonna get it, He's not 626 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 1: gonna own up to his part and not being there. 627 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 1: And if that's a requirement for you to have a 628 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: relationship with him now, then I think you just have 629 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 1: to to really reconsider that, you know. But a lot 630 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: of times it's not you know, it's like, you know, 631 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,760 Speaker 1: despite him not being there, we can meet at this area, 632 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,239 Speaker 1: whether it's through the grandkids or whether it's just an 633 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: occasional hey, how you doing, and it's not really trying 634 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,839 Speaker 1: to get them to understand something that they haven't done. 635 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: M hmmm. Yeah. And I think I've heard from people 636 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: too that will also bring up a fresh wound when 637 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: they maybe see Dad interacting with the grandkids in a 638 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: way that he was not able to do for them. Yeah. 639 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,359 Speaker 1: It it definitely does, you know. And a lot of times, 640 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 1: from a man's perspective or dass perspective, who wasn't there, 641 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: it's almost as if they're trying to make up for 642 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:02,399 Speaker 1: what they didn't do. Another question. I don't know how 643 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: to truly move past being a past daddy's girl, but 644 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 1: was so blind to who he really was until I 645 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,320 Speaker 1: grew up. Even writing this and thinking about how the 646 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: last time I saw him, I wanted to take him out. 647 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: It's hard. How do I work through it? It affects 648 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 1: how I view the man I want to father my children. Yeah, yeah, 649 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: I mean again, I think this is where therapy helps, 650 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: you know, being able to really process and understand the 651 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: extent of who he really was versus maybe the image 652 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: that he portrayed. Because we all fall short. None of 653 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: us is perfect, and a lot of times, depending on 654 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: the relationship, we look up to our parents in this 655 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: idolized image, you know, but mom gets tired too. You know, 656 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 1: just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it never happened. 657 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: And so sometimes when we're exposed to the real person, 658 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,839 Speaker 1: it is like eye opening. Now in an extreme form, right, 659 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:57,320 Speaker 1: if someone was abusive of like totally a cruel person 660 00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,839 Speaker 1: and you were totally blind to that, then I think 661 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,479 Speaker 1: that it's important to be able to process the hurt 662 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: that came along with that and identify ways in which 663 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: you can engage the relationship now. Because you learn new information, 664 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 1: you grow, you can't always fit where you are now 665 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,359 Speaker 1: into where you were right you're not thirteen, and so 666 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: being able to make that mental shift, I think it's important. 667 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 1: But then also being able to process the hurt that 668 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: the new information brought about. M Yeah, I think that's critical. 669 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,240 Speaker 1: And then one last question, how do you heal relationships 670 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,400 Speaker 1: where the father committed infidelity? That would be the last question, 671 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,359 Speaker 1: you know, and I laugh about it, but I tell 672 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:53,320 Speaker 1: you I hear this a lot. I really do, because you, yeah, 673 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:57,440 Speaker 1: how do you heal when when? So, I mean, it 674 00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: seems like it's kind of similar to the last question, 675 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: right is at you know, depending on maybe when you 676 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: found out about the infidelity, like if it's something that 677 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: you found out later in life, or did you find out, 678 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,799 Speaker 1: you know, while it was happening, and that's what made 679 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 1: the relationship between mom and dad end, you know, I 680 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: guess it would kind of depend. Yeah, it really does depend. 681 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: I was I was about the phone of friend and 682 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,399 Speaker 1: be like, I wanna talk about the joy on this one. 683 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: But I really do think it goes back to the 684 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 1: notion of hurt. You know, I'm hurt by a decision 685 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: you made, whether that decision was to not be there, 686 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 1: whether that decision was to have an outside family, or 687 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: whether that decision was to not follow through and your engagements, 688 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,840 Speaker 1: I mean, your commitments. It still goes back to a disappointment. 689 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: An expectation is here, the reality is here, and everything 690 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 1: in between his disappointment and so I don't want people 691 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: to go to the extreme of trying to make excuses 692 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: for dad, right, because that happens a lot. But even 693 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: that is a way to kind of like protect that image. 694 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 1: But you can forgive, you know, you really can't, and 695 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:13,280 Speaker 1: you can move forward and forgiveness and so that again 696 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 1: is a process in and of itself, but it's possible. 697 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,919 Speaker 1: But giving yourself the timed space and doing the work 698 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,919 Speaker 1: to actually work through that it's critical. Another thing that's 699 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: important in that is dad's role. If Dad is still 700 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: at a place where he hasn't accepted responsibility, sometimes it 701 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 1: makes that forgiveness a little bit harder. Yeah, because I 702 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: think the other complicated piece here is that you are 703 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: dealing with what this means for your family that may 704 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: now look very different, But you're also wanting to be 705 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: protective of mom, I would imagine, right. You know, so 706 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 1: you're trying to figure out your feelings about your dad. 707 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,759 Speaker 1: But we know, and probably a lot of us don't 708 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 1: get this until we become adults, that your relationship to 709 00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 1: your parents is very different than the one they have 710 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: with one another. And so you know, how do you 711 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,279 Speaker 1: maintain that relationship while also letting the adults kind of 712 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 1: work out what's going on between them. Yeah, and you 713 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 1: must have this connection to with mom, especially if you've 714 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 1: experienced something similar in your dating or marriage life. You know, 715 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 1: it's like this, man, I see what mom was going through. 716 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to understand. As a child, you 717 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,719 Speaker 1: just see the separation, you know, or the impact. But 718 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 1: as you get older and you're able to process your 719 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 1: own experiences, a lot of times things make more sense. 720 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,279 Speaker 1: You know, they sometimes can become more confusing, right, It 721 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: really depends. So Nick, can you share any resources that 722 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 1: you find particularly helpful and like working with clients around 723 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,640 Speaker 1: these kinds of issues, anything that you find yourself recommending 724 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 1: over and over. Yeah. So here's a book I recommend 725 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 1: at least once a week, and that is Harriet Lerner 726 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 1: The Dance of Anger M. It's not so much directly 727 00:40:54,600 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: tied to father daughter relationships, but it is is tied 728 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 1: to stopping the cycle, and that cycle a lot of 729 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: times happens because of father daughter relationships. And again, the 730 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,879 Speaker 1: issues as it relates to quote daddy issues, they show 731 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,080 Speaker 1: up in relationships in so many different ways. But I 732 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,440 Speaker 1: keep going back to that book a lot of times, 733 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 1: and I literally have plans to reach out and say 734 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 1: this book changed my life. This book helped out so 735 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,839 Speaker 1: much because it speaks to us owning our own healing 736 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 1: and not putting that on someone else, and that gives 737 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,240 Speaker 1: us a sense of control and power of the situation 738 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: as well too, like, yeah, I didn't cause this hurt, 739 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,080 Speaker 1: but I'm gonna take the steps to be able to 740 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,960 Speaker 1: move forward and not allow what happened to me to 741 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:50,320 Speaker 1: continue to negatively impact my life, you know. Any others 742 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:55,800 Speaker 1: Attached is another really good book, just kind of learning 743 00:41:55,960 --> 00:42:00,959 Speaker 1: different attachment styles. And again, our attachment styles in many 744 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,720 Speaker 1: ways are the result of our relationship with our parents. 745 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,279 Speaker 1: So I think that's a I think it's like a 746 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 1: mirror Levin or somebody like that. That's great who wrote 747 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,839 Speaker 1: that book, So that's a really good resource. And then 748 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 1: just therapy, you know, being comfortable to be challenged in 749 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,799 Speaker 1: therapy as well. You know, growth happens when there's some 750 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,279 Speaker 1: element of friction, you know, so being able to embrace that. 751 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,320 Speaker 1: You need to feel safe, you need to feel comfortable, 752 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 1: but then you also need to be challenged a little 753 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,759 Speaker 1: bit too, and so embracing that a lot of times 754 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,360 Speaker 1: it's a good way to move forward perfect, And where 755 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 1: can we find you? Nick? What is your website as 756 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,719 Speaker 1: well as any social media handles you'd like to share? Yeah? 757 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: Absolutely so you can find me at a Nick Hardy 758 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 1: dot com and that's n I c h R d 759 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,279 Speaker 1: Y Instagram, Nick Hardy Underscore Again, that's just and I 760 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,160 Speaker 1: See and Facebook is just Nick Hardy Counseling. Thank you 761 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,400 Speaker 1: so much, Nick. I appreciate you sharing your expertise with 762 00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:00,360 Speaker 1: us today. Absolutely, thank you so much. Dr Joy Okay, 763 00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 1: I'm so glad that Nick was able to share his 764 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,319 Speaker 1: expertise with us today. To learn more about him and 765 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,920 Speaker 1: his work, be sure to visit the show notes at 766 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,960 Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash Session to twelve, 767 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:14,719 Speaker 1: and don't forget to text two of your girls to 768 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,359 Speaker 1: tell them to check out the episode as well. If 769 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure 770 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,839 Speaker 1: to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black 771 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:26,880 Speaker 1: Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want to 772 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,160 Speaker 1: continue digging into this topic or just be in community 773 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,719 Speaker 1: with other sisters, come on over and join us in 774 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:36,000 Speaker 1: the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet 775 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 1: design just for black women. You can join us at 776 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 1: community dot therapy for black girls dot com. Thank you 777 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,360 Speaker 1: all so much for joining me again this week. I 778 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 1: look forward to continue in this conversation with you all 779 00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,120 Speaker 1: real soon. Take get care,