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Speaker 1: Not one Christmas goes by that we do not watch.

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Speaker 1: I'm Uppet Christmas, Carol and Miracle on thirty fourth Street,

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Speaker 1: the remake and the Classic with Natalie Wood. Natalie Wood.

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Speaker 1: Just the name evokes glamor, beauty, grace. But even now,

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Speaker 1: decades later, many convinced Natalie Wood didn't quote just drown,

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Speaker 1: that Natalie Wood was I murdered. I Nancy Grace and

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Speaker 1: this is crime stories, crime stories with Nancy Grace such

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Speaker 1: You're at Catalina Island found the body of Natalie Wood

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Speaker 1: floating just offshore this morning, an apparent drowning victim. She

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Speaker 1: had sailed to the island with her husband, actor Robert Wagner,

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Speaker 1: aboard the couple's yacht. Authority said the actress apparently tried

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Speaker 1: in an inflatable motor launch. What happened isn't known. The

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Speaker 1: boat was found afloat near the body. Today, Miss Wood's

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Speaker 1: distraught husband returned their Beverly Hills home to receive a

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Speaker 1: constant stream of mourners. The couple had been popular fixtures

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Speaker 1: in Hollywood Grand Marshals in the nineteen seventy nine Christmas Parade.

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Speaker 1: As an actress, Miss Wood rose to prominence with Miracle

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Speaker 1: on thirty fourth Street and through the years had been

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Speaker 1: nominated for three Academy Awards. David Dow's CBS News Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: In the last days, the death of Natalie Wood has

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Speaker 1: taken center stage yet again. I mean see Grace, this

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Speaker 1: is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Not

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Speaker 1: only was Natalie found, her body found full voting out

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Speaker 1: in the cold water. According to witnesses, there had been

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Speaker 1: a horrible argument between her and her then husband Robert

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Speaker 1: Wagner the night before on their yacht. With me an

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Speaker 1: all star panel to dissect the very latest Stephen Lampley,

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Speaker 1: former detective, author of I Was the Girl, about his

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Speaker 1: time as an undercover cop in an underage sex sting.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bryan Russell's psychologist, lawyer and host of investigation Discoveries

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Speaker 1: Fatal Vows. Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research

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Speaker 1: Institute and now an expert in the Natalie Wood case.

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Speaker 1: Marty Ruley, author of Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendor on Amazon,

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Speaker 1: and special guests joining me. Lanna Wood, Natalie's sister and

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Speaker 1: actress Bond Girl, the star in over twenty Moon movies

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Speaker 1: and over three hundred television shows. I Want to start

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Speaker 1: with Lanta Wood, Lanta. A lot of people don't realize

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Speaker 1: for what it's worth. This month is National Domestic Abuse

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Speaker 1: Awareness Month. And having prosecuted felony crimes for ten years

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Speaker 1: and working at the batter Women's Center at night for

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Speaker 1: nine years, I sometimes feel like I've seen too much

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Speaker 1: regarding battered women, but I feel like it has never

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Speaker 1: been analyzed as it relates to your sister, Natalie. Lanna,

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Speaker 1: can you describe the relationship Natalie had with Robert Wagner?

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Speaker 1: Starting at the beginning, Natalie, Natalie was really living her

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Speaker 1: fantasy of being married too late a handsome movie star.

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Speaker 1: Natalie fortunately or unfortunately, really was living her dream, but

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Speaker 1: her dream wasn't exactly what she taught it would be.

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Speaker 1: Their relationship was very difficult at times, very disturbing to Natalie,

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Speaker 1: extremely disappointing, and I used the word extremely because it

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Speaker 1: isn't like little things that disappointed her. Also just as

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Speaker 1: a momentary asside to let everyone know what Natalie was

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Speaker 1: like is Natalie was very, very concerned with showing her

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Speaker 1: fans and the world that she was Natalie would she

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Speaker 1: never let that down. Ever, she would not show frailties.

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Speaker 1: She would not. She felt she had a certain role

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Speaker 1: to play when she stepped out of her house, and

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Speaker 1: she was very, very concerned with keeping other things private

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Speaker 1: because it didn't match up with what she wanted the

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Speaker 1: world to see. Um. Their relationship was a difficult one. UM,

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Speaker 1: and it's so complicated. I don't really know how easily

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Speaker 1: I can even describe it simply because it was it

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Speaker 1: wasn't just a young girl falling in love. It was

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Speaker 1: playing another role. It was it was another role for

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Speaker 1: Natalie as well. And that's what she knew. That's what

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Speaker 1: that's what she'd done all her life, and that's also

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Speaker 1: why she had been in therapy for many, many many

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Speaker 1: years and continue this is trying to break away from

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Speaker 1: the pretense of the fantasy and face the reality. Not easy.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's really interesting, guys. I'm speaking with Natalie

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Speaker 1: woods sister, Alanna, who I now consider to be a

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Speaker 1: personal friend. Over the years, we have analyzed this case

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Speaker 1: so many times. And it pains me to say over

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Speaker 1: the years because not that I regret knowing Alanna for

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Speaker 1: this amount of time, but that justice has never been

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Speaker 1: obtained for Natalie Wood over all these years. The author

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Speaker 1: of Goodbye Natalie Goodbye Splendor, which is the name of

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Speaker 1: Natalie's yacht. Marty ruly is with me. You can find

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Speaker 1: her or her name. Are you li on Amazon? Marty,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to hear your reaction to what Lanta has

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Speaker 1: just said about her sister's relationship with Robert Wagner. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's so true that Robert Wagner and Natalie Wood were

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Speaker 1: such a public relationship. The world had eyes on them

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Speaker 1: and Natalie. My friend Dennis de Verne, who worked as

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Speaker 1: their skipper on the boat, he saw them in the

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Speaker 1: most intimate weekends of their lives when they got away

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Speaker 1: from the hustle and bustle and took their trips to

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Speaker 1: Catalina Island, and Dennis so he saw the pleasure part

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Speaker 1: of their life. He had never really seen anything like

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Speaker 1: what happened the weekend Natalie died beforehand. But he also

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Speaker 1: spent a lot of private time with Natalie in the

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Speaker 1: wheelhouse because she didn't like the water activities. So Natalie,

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Speaker 1: she was in therapy, and she told Dennis a lot

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Speaker 1: about her therapy. They confided in each other, and she

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Speaker 1: did explain that there were things about her relationship because

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Speaker 1: it was so public that made it more difficult. So

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Speaker 1: I totally understand what Lana is saying. And the one

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Speaker 1: thing and Natalie didn't want the public to see the

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Speaker 1: problems in her marriage. They were so popular, they were

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Speaker 1: the king and Queen of Hollywood at that time. So

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Speaker 1: Natalie not only had to hide certain things, she lived

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Speaker 1: with the fear of the public finding out that everything

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Speaker 1: wasn't perfect. In you know, the perverbial Lala Land and

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Speaker 1: the night that Natalie died, A lot of women are assaulted,

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Speaker 1: and you know, my advices get out the first time,

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Speaker 1: because it usually doesn't get better, it gets worse. And Natalie,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what may have happened to be in

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Speaker 1: in privacy in their relationship ship, but I do know

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Speaker 1: what happened that night. So not only was Natalie the

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Speaker 1: very night that she died physically assaulted, as her autopsy

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Speaker 1: report shows Bruce's all over her body, it's the emotional

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Speaker 1: aspect of it too. She was so angered that night

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Speaker 1: because Robert Wagner had smashed a wine bottle in front

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Speaker 1: of the face of her costar, who she was trying

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Speaker 1: to impress in a family way, taking him on a

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Speaker 1: family cruise with her husband, And here she was totally embarrassed.

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Speaker 1: She was angry the emotional aspect of it by the

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Speaker 1: time Robert Wagner got to their stateroom and the horrible

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Speaker 1: fighting started. The physical part of it, Natalie was experiencing

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Speaker 1: emotions that go along with this horrible thing. And then

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Speaker 1: when he's probably started abusing her, there was the shock

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Speaker 1: of that. If it wasn't a constant thing in their relationship.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this was a bad fight. It probably got worse.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to what a witness tells our friend,

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Speaker 1: doctor Phil. Have you replayed this in your mind? Are

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Speaker 1: you mad at yourself that you didn't do something different? Well,

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Speaker 1: I actually, I actually don't think. I think she was

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Speaker 1: dead when she hit the water. She was unconscious, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, when she hits the water. I

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Speaker 1: mean they said there wasn't any water in her lungs.

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Speaker 1: So what is your theory? I think the argument got

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Speaker 1: out of control and she was she was knocked unconscious

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Speaker 1: by a physical fight from Robert Wagner and put in

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Speaker 1: the water. So you believe when you were standing on

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Speaker 1: the back of that boat and he said, don't turn

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Speaker 1: on that searchlight, you were talking to a murderer. Exactly.

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Speaker 1: You believe Robert Wagner murdered Natalie Wood. I really do

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Speaker 1: prime stories with Nancy Grace. There were two lifeguards that

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Speaker 1: handled the initial investigation. One of those is dead, another

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Speaker 1: one is not speaking. He's refused to talk about this case.

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Speaker 1: Now he says he's done talking because he doesn't believe

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Speaker 1: justice has been served. And is one Roger Smith, Yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: because we have some audio of him. One of the

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Speaker 1: lifeguards was Roger Smith who led the lifeguard team that

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Speaker 1: searched for Natalie, and he's the one who actually pulled

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Speaker 1: her body out of the water. Here's a clip if

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Speaker 1: his interview on the podcast Fatal Voyage The Mysterious Death

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Speaker 1: of Natalie Wood. Let's listen to it. He said, we've

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Speaker 1: had the shore boats and the harbor trow go to

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Speaker 1: every boat in the harbor, and we couldn't locate her.

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Speaker 1: Look at here's the boat right here, And he and

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Speaker 1: Wagnes said we didn't call them because her public agency

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Speaker 1: and she might be fooling around a something boat and

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Speaker 1: she often does that. I found out by one of

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Speaker 1: the Marine Science Center students who studied anatomy over there

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Speaker 1: and that worked the chamber with me that she could

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Speaker 1: live three to five point eight hours hanging under that

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Speaker 1: raft being blown out to sea before she succumbed to

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Speaker 1: the code based on one alcohol level she had on

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Speaker 1: her hand under the safety line that goes along the

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Speaker 1: side of it. Her hands were still liable, you know.

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Speaker 1: So nothing is said in yet linga mortis, no ring

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Speaker 1: of martis at all, and in her facial she looked,

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Speaker 1: she looked, I shan't that diver. I looked out at

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Speaker 1: the raft. As I looked at it, I saw some

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Speaker 1: scratch marks on the didn't scratch end of the material,

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Speaker 1: but like somebody was clawing on the side of it

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Speaker 1: and staggering. So what does that suggest? That she became

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Speaker 1: conscious at least or at some point was conscious, was

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Speaker 1: hanging onto this raft and may have been clawing trying

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Speaker 1: to get up in the raft from the water. True,

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Speaker 1: Natalie Wood didn't have to die. You were hearing our

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Speaker 1: friend doctor Phil and his guests, including the man that

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Speaker 1: pulled Natalie Wood's body out of the icy waters at Catalina. I.

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. How did she end up in the water?

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Speaker 1: To Cheryl McCallum, cold case Research Institute director explains, Cheryl Nacy,

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Speaker 1: she's in her stateroom and then she leaves that, which

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Speaker 1: is he goes straight out to the back of the boat.

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Speaker 1: Whether she and Robert Wagner are having a furbal argument

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Speaker 1: to the point thence to Verne with the radio rowed

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Speaker 1: up in the wheelhouse, can hear it? He looks out

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Speaker 1: and sees it, and he thought, well, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: give him their privacy, so he looks away. The next

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Speaker 1: thing he knows, Robert Wagner comes him and says, Natalie's missing.

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Speaker 1: But when you look at the injuries to her body,

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Speaker 1: and not just what's written on the autopxy but the drawing.

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Speaker 1: She's got a mark on her left cheek, She's got

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Speaker 1: injuries around her neck, on her wrists, on her thigh,

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Speaker 1: on her knees, on her ankles, on the front of

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Speaker 1: her leg, both of them, on the backs of her legs.

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Speaker 1: There is no injury, however, to the inside of the

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Speaker 1: palm of her hands. And that crucial to me because

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Speaker 1: had she been holding onto that rope and that rope

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Speaker 1: fly away from her because the boat gets jerked away

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Speaker 1: in the wind, she might have burned from the rope.

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Speaker 1: They didn't notate any injury where she had been scratching.

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Speaker 1: But this is really important for your listeners to paint

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Speaker 1: this picture. The dinghy was not some heavy wooden boat.

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Speaker 1: It was filled with air. The moment that it got untied,

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Speaker 1: it's like a balloon in the wind. There would have

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Speaker 1: been zero chance she could have re entered that boat

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Speaker 1: from the water. Not possible. So you think if you've

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Speaker 1: ever been pulled like on a knee board, and that

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Speaker 1: you know in the lake if you fall off that

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Speaker 1: you can't get back on that you have to have

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Speaker 1: everything stopped in order to pull yourself back up. Bones

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Speaker 1: just a small raft forget getting ding not gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: And your point is she was not trying to reinter

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Speaker 1: that dingy. She was not conscious. Let me ask you this, yere,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna call him. What about her fingernails in autopsy?

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Speaker 1: I don't recall them being chipped or broken? None. Her

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Speaker 1: focks are owned, her nightgown own, the jacket his own.

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Speaker 1: She's dressed fully. And the point is that if well

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Speaker 1: we know all these injuries are true because they're on

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Speaker 1: the autopsy report, if she was did not sustain them

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Speaker 1: trying to get into the boat the dinghy. Then how

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Speaker 1: did she sustain them? I want to circle back to Lanta.

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Speaker 1: Would Natalie's sister Lana I believe that Natalie was a

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Speaker 1: domestic abuse victim? Agree or disagree? Oh? I agree completely completely?

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Speaker 1: I why just based upon the current the New Corners

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Speaker 1: examinations and his conclusions. Um, Dennis Deverne, having gone to

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Speaker 1: the stateroom door when he heard his words, founds like

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Speaker 1: furniture was being thrown around, banging, raised voices. He knocked

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Speaker 1: on the door, which was opened, A small bitch and

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Speaker 1: uh basically told to go away by Robert Wagner. Um, Natalie,

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Speaker 1: Natalie first all was very tiny. UM a lot. There's

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Speaker 1: so much for me to say. I keep getting lost

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Speaker 1: in my wanderings here. The fingernail, Um, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: it's standard operating procedure. It is for fingernail clippings to

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Speaker 1: be taken. This was not done or there there are

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Speaker 1: nuns in u in evidence anywhere a rate kit was

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Speaker 1: not done. There again, away from procedure, there are so

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Speaker 1: many questions Natalie did did bruise easily? And for her

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Speaker 1: to have sustained that many bruises, I mean It's quite obvious.

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Speaker 1: There's no way I can pretend that it wasn't done

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Speaker 1: to her. But about their history, you are in a

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Speaker 1: unique position to know her history. Robert Wagner. Was there

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Speaker 1: any indication through the years that she had been a

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Speaker 1: domestic abuse victim, not that she ever admitted, which is

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Speaker 1: very very much like Natalie. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: special guests joining me Lanna Wood, Natalie's sister and actress.

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Speaker 1: This month is National Domestic Abuse Awareness Month, but I

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Speaker 1: feel like it has never been analyzed as it relates

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Speaker 1: to your sister Natalie. Was there any indication through the

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Speaker 1: years that she had been a domestic abuse victim, not

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Speaker 1: that she ever admitted, which is very very much like Natalie,

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Speaker 1: because she also had a role to play with me.

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Speaker 1: I was her baby sister who was always around. She

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Speaker 1: didn't want me to see really ugly things. We didn't

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Speaker 1: talk about things like that. If I would begin to

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Speaker 1: talk about things like that in respect to myself my relationships,

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Speaker 1: she would say she didn't want to hear it. Well,

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Speaker 1: can you tell me about an incident where Natalie cut

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Speaker 1: her hand? I was a teenager. It was at my parents' home,

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Speaker 1: a small home in Van Eyes, and Natalie appeared at

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Speaker 1: the door very late at night with her hand bleeding

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Speaker 1: badly as she had cut herself with a wine glass

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Speaker 1: that she crushed with her own hand. She was so furious,

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Speaker 1: so shocked, so distraught that she was able to do that,

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Speaker 1: And it was because of something that she witnessed with

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Speaker 1: her husband, Robert Wagner. Um that she also then wrote

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Speaker 1: about in her in her own memoir which she was

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Speaker 1: attempting to finish, that it shook up her entire life.

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Speaker 1: It destroyed everything she believed in in marriage and everything else.

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Speaker 1: Um what what destroyed everything she believed in? Finding her

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Speaker 1: husband with someone else? That was the reason for the

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Speaker 1: first divorce? Um, yeah, it was. I was really devastating

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Speaker 1: to her, absolutely devastating. Did I miss hear that, Marty Ruley, No,

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Speaker 1: you did not, and you did not mishear anything. And

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Speaker 1: Robert Wagner, actually Natalie, Natalie even let the world believe

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Speaker 1: when all of the movie gossip magazines back in the

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Speaker 1: day were saying that the marriage had broken up because

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Speaker 1: Natalie's was with Warren Beatty, that an affair had started

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Speaker 1: while she was making Splendor in the Graph. Natalie wasn't

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Speaker 1: even that keen on Warren at first. They became good

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Speaker 1: friends after Natalie's marriage had deteriorated after that incident, and

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Speaker 1: then Warren had been engaged to Joan Collins and that

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Speaker 1: engagement had broken up. So Warren and Natalie started confiding

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Speaker 1: in each other and their relationship grew. But the movie

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Speaker 1: magazines were attacking Natalie for ruining the marriage by having

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Speaker 1: an affair with Warren Batty and poor Robert Wagner. That's

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Speaker 1: not the case. Natalie caught her husband, Robert Wagner, in

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Speaker 1: a compromising position and went home to her parents' house

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Speaker 1: and allowed, And she does write about it. She doesn't

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Speaker 1: describe it, but she writes about her extreme emotional devastation

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Speaker 1: over that incident in her diary to Cheryl McCollum. In

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Speaker 1: my mind, and you and I have worked on so

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Speaker 1: many domestic violence cases that end in homicide, and my mind,

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Speaker 1: adultery is a form of emotional abuse, especially when your spouse,

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Speaker 1: your partner knows it's happening and you continue to do it.

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Speaker 1: That's abuse. But if this was my case and I

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Speaker 1: was coming to you at the court house that lay

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Speaker 1: it out and tell you what we have, I would

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Speaker 1: start with when they met, NOI they year volder might

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Speaker 1: be that he did control her a little bit when

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Speaker 1: they met. He is a bigger deal at first than

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Speaker 1: she was. Then she took the lead. She became the

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Speaker 1: movie star. And not just in movies. She was in

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Speaker 1: the Blockbusters at the time, three Academy Award nomination. I

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Speaker 1: mean she's living the dreams. She's on TV, and in

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Speaker 1: that world there's a distinction. So there's jealousy there. There's

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Speaker 1: other things that play in And one thing that I

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Speaker 1: would bring to you at the courthouse, I would say, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: she died on this night, but let's talk about the

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Speaker 1: night before, because you cannot discount the fact she was

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Speaker 1: either so upset and angry and wanted to get away

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Speaker 1: from Robert Waggoner's so bad. The night before she died,

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Speaker 1: she got in and severne to take her to a

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Speaker 1: hotel on shore. She did not spend the night on

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Speaker 1: the Funday. She's absolutely right to Atlanta Wood, Natalie's sister

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Speaker 1: and star in her own right. You don't have suddenly

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Speaker 1: an explosion one night, a battering situation and the person

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Speaker 1: is killed when there is not a history leading up

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Speaker 1: to it. Okay, now, what Cheryl McCollum is saying is

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Speaker 1: absolutely correct. Just like when Nicole Brown Simpson was trying

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Speaker 1: to leave home okay because she had been battered that

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Speaker 1: night before she was killed, Natalie Wood had Davern the captain,

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Speaker 1: take her to short leave the yacht like so many

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Speaker 1: women leave their homes, because she was angry and afraid

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Speaker 1: of Robert Wagner. Alanna, this is absolutely true. No, that

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Speaker 1: there would have had to have been something really quite

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Speaker 1: horrific for Natalie to leave and spend the night away

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Speaker 1: from the Splendor and stay on shore and asked Dannis

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Speaker 1: to please stay by her side. She asked him to

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Speaker 1: please stay with her. Marty Ruly, author of Goodbye Natalie

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Speaker 1: Goodbye Splendor on Amazon. What do we know about the

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Speaker 1: night before she died? That night bothers me to this

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Speaker 1: day because the reason Natalie left the yacht that night

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Speaker 1: everything was fine. That night, She Christopher and RJ had

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Speaker 1: spent time on the island in Avalon and they had lunch,

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Speaker 1: They had some drinks and did some early Christmas shopping,

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Speaker 1: which was one of Natalie's reasons for wanting to spend

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Speaker 1: that weekend in at Catalina. She wanted to get some

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Speaker 1: she was into the holiday spirit. She was in good spirits.

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Speaker 1: But after they returned to the boat on Friday night

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Speaker 1: of the cruise, Black Friday, that was they had dinner

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Speaker 1: aboard the boat, and then suddenly RJ wants to move

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Speaker 1: the boat across the island to the remote part of

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Speaker 1: the island where there's the only one restaurant, but which

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Speaker 1: has closed at that time ten ten thirty at night,

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Speaker 1: and the water was choppy that night. That's the night.

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Speaker 1: The water was choppy, it was cold, it was raining,

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Speaker 1: and Robert Wagner suddenly he's running around, he's pulling anchor.

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Speaker 1: He's demanding that Dennis go to the wheelhouse and get

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Speaker 1: the engines going. They're going to the other part of

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Speaker 1: the island. Why And that was Natalie's question, why, r J?

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Speaker 1: Why are you doing this? And j he was so

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Speaker 1: upset that night. He was angry, he was boiling over

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Speaker 1: with probably jealousy. And that's when Natalie said, Dennis, I

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Speaker 1: don't like this. Take me assure Dennis did. And she

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Speaker 1: was so upset that night. They stayed up almost all

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Speaker 1: night long while she confided in Dennis that she was

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Speaker 1: not going to tolerate this anymore. She was tired of

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Speaker 1: RJ's jealousies, which does have a history. One time, and

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Speaker 1: Robert Wagner himself writes about this in his memoir that

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Speaker 1: he was Well. It was actually in Gavin Lambert's biography

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Speaker 1: about Natalie that when she starred with William Devane and

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Speaker 1: Wagner was very jealous of William Devane in From Here

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Speaker 1: to Eternity. And one night they were in a hotel

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Speaker 1: room and RJ wanted to throw himself out of an

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Speaker 1: eight story hotel window over his jealousy. But there were

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Speaker 1: other people in the room that night Natalie had gone

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Speaker 1: to bed, and they all calmed r J down. So

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Speaker 1: there was a history of his jealousies and he's not

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Speaker 1: trusting Natalie. But on this night, the Friday night that

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Speaker 1: Dennis spent the night with Natalie, she was very afraid.

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Speaker 1: Now I believe that she asked Dennis to stay with

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Speaker 1: her so she could then to him, and also because

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Speaker 1: she was afraid. Why would he want to move that

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Speaker 1: boat at that late time at night to the remote

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Speaker 1: part of the island where the next night Natalie ended

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Speaker 1: up in the water exactly at the same spot he

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Speaker 1: wanted to travel to On Friday Night Crime Stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace to Lana would Natalie's sister and actress Lana.

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Speaker 1: Their relationship was fraught with explosive arguments and threats and

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Speaker 1: jealousies and all night drinking. What do you know about

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Speaker 1: their arguments over the years. I mean it led to

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Speaker 1: one divorce and then they got back together. Well, I

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00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: was listening to Marty. It also brought back to me

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Speaker 1: when Natalie was filming Peeper with Michael Caine UM and

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Speaker 1: he was just a family friend, Michael UM. But Nadalie

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Speaker 1: and I were in her in her trailer and she

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Speaker 1: was she was getting ready to go back out on

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Speaker 1: the set and r J arrived. He walked up the

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Speaker 1: steps and you know when came into the trailer, we

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Speaker 1: were not expecting him, and he instantly started this kind

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Speaker 1: of um, I want to say, snide sort of bickering

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Speaker 1: about you know, oh, you better make sure your mic

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Speaker 1: has turned on. When when the sound man put on

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Speaker 1: your microphone and set everything up, was he turned on?

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Speaker 1: Did you let him see anything? I mean it was

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Speaker 1: rather because I was standing there. It was sort of

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00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: done in an in an undertone, but it was very

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00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: cruel and it was weird. It was just odd that

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00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: he would become very who steps up her microphone? That

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00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: sort of thing would go on from time to time always,

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Speaker 1: but he uh, he would try to cover up most

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Speaker 1: of the time when they would start that kind of bickering,

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Speaker 1: and Natalie would get very upset. She did not lash back,

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Speaker 1: She did not say anything that would further his his

402
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: strange behavior, his thoughts, and generally I would excuse myself

403
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: and say, you know, hey, if they wanted to have

404
00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: dinner later, um, give me a callback, and I would

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00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: I would leave because it was very unpleasant. So the

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00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: jealousy was that common and their relationships, that type of

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00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: behavior was common. There seemed to be some sort of

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00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: a jealousy that was not that that had no basis.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know psychologically if that was something that

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00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: he just simply enjoyed or that was his way of

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Speaker 1: upsetting Natalie. Let me ask you this. Lana would during

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Speaker 1: her marriages to Robert Wagner. First and second, did you

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Speaker 1: ever suspect that she was a victim either physical or

414
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Speaker 1: emotional abuse? Emotional yes, yeah, the physical no, I didn't really.

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Speaker 1: Ladie always had bruises, but whenever I'd slay what happened there.

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Speaker 1: The apple would be, oh, I don't even know. I

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Speaker 1: you know, I bump in the thing. Okay, that's interesting

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Speaker 1: to me. To Marty Rulely Arthur of goodbye Natalie, goodbye splendor.

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Speaker 1: That people actually noticed Natalie Wood's bruises, well, she was

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Speaker 1: an active person and you can acquire bruises and a

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00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: lot of people as an excuse later, you know, explaining

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00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,479
Speaker 1: the bruises on her autopsy, reports said well, when your

423
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: boating neck can happen. Not the type of bruises that

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00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: Natalie had, especially at the ankles. The ankle bruises that

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Speaker 1: she had actually looked like fingerprint marks, which and you know,

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Speaker 1: I am an amateur when it comes to the medical

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Speaker 1: field in respect to a coroner's report, but I did

428
00:33:55,520 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: markings on a makeshift body, and those bruises Natalie's ankles

429
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: on her autopsy are exactly fit the handprints of being

430
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: pulled by the ankles, probably dragged along the deck, which

431
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: is how she acquired her facial abrasion, which just had

432
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: non skid applied to the deck, you know, close here

433
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,439
Speaker 1: and it up for the winner the boat and so

434
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: But in actual every day to day life, I did

435
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: not know Natalie or ever see Natalie. But Nolana just

436
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 1: said that she a lot of times had bruises. Who

437
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: knows where they came from. I want to follow up

438
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: on something you're saying with Cheryl McCallum, director of the

439
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: Cold Case Research Institute, regarding the bruises on Natalie's ankles.

440
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: You have to ask yourself first, or her injuries consistent

441
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: with a fall. If you answer no, that's why we're here.

442
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: That's why the autoxy results have been changed from accidental

443
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 1: railly to undetermined because they're not consistent with a fall.

444
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: There's no way this is unusual. Bit, My daughter Caroline

445
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 1: is exactly Natalie Wood's height. Caroline could no more from

446
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: the back of that boat, reach that thinging, pull it

447
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: toward her, and enter it without help. And here's what

448
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 1: key to me. The night before, when she's mad and

449
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: upset and angry and wants to get away from him,

450
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: she don't jump in that boat and take off. She

451
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: gets Vinnis to take her the next night. You want

452
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: me to believe that Natalie Wood who was falling. I

453
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: have personally looked at over twelve hundred photographs of Natalie Wood.

454
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: There ain't a bad one. There is only one that

455
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: I had found. She's an a bathing suit walking down

456
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: the beach. Her smile is perfect, debasing sus perfect to play,

457
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: Her legs are positions, walking is perfect, But her eyes

458
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 1: are closed. That is as close to a bad picture

459
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: of her that I have found. The reason that's key.

460
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: I am never gonna believe that Natalie would guide in

461
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: a boat by herself, that she was petrified of the water,

462
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: that she was petrified of a boat. She never drove

463
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: and went to town in a flannel nightgown did not happen.

464
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 1: Natalie Wood would not give people to believe she owned flannel.

465
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,919
Speaker 1: She was a movie star all the time. It wasn't.

466
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: It wasn't playing for Natalie who she was. We wait

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00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 1: and hope for justice. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off

468
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: Goodbye Friend,