1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 2 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: My guest today is Howard Jones. How are good to 3 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: be talking with you? Well, thank you so much, Bob. 4 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: It's very nice to be talking with you. Okay, people 5 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: can't see this, but you're wearing a sweater that says 6 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: nine thirty. What's that about? Um? Well, I I recently 7 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: played the nine thirty Club in Washington and I've been 8 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: wanting to play there for so long. They for some 9 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: reason could never get me fit me in um and 10 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,279 Speaker 1: so I wanted to get some and they gave us 11 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: some merch at the end of the night. So it's 12 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: a really comfy one. So are you the type of 13 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: person who you know? Bill Wyman was the Stalls, was 14 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: a famous collector. He's still with us, but he sold 15 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: some of his stuff. Do you keep all them? Because 16 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: you know, promoters are legendary for giving gifts to performers. 17 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: You still have all that stuff? Um? No? I mean 18 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: this was a very special thing for me because I 19 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: normally I don't I wouldn't take any kind of merch 20 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,119 Speaker 1: from the gig, but I just thought it was very cool. 21 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: It's black and I've always wanted to play there, and 22 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: everybody asked me what that means. So actually there was 23 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: one of the few venues where well they actually did 24 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: a baby merch and one of our one of our 25 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: crew members has recently had a young baby and my 26 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: wife Jan bought some baby merch that we got some 27 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: pictures back today with the nine thirty logo on it. Okay, 28 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: so how extensive is your merch that you sell at 29 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: a gig. Well, we always like to sell music because 30 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: you know, that's the most important thing to me. So 31 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: so they'll always be like the you c d s 32 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: and vinyl if we've got it, um and uh, you know, 33 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: a couple of great T shirts, but it's really important 34 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: to have the music there. And uh do you personally 35 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: choose the T shirt or as somebody else do that? 36 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: And no, no, I get I do get involved. And yeah, 37 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: we we we always spend a lot of time working 38 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: on you know, what the designs are going to be. 39 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: Are they going to be related to the album or 40 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: to the live show or or just an abstract you 41 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: know design. So yeah, we spend we spent a lot 42 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 1: of time. So if I go to the gig, I've 43 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: seen you, but not recently. I saw you at the 44 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: House of Blues in l A. I believe it was 45 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 1: about twenty years ago, but um, yeah, I don't remember 46 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: the merge there. But if I go to your gig today, 47 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: are you going to be at the merge table? Am 48 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: I going to get to meet you? No? Do we do? 49 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 1: We do a meet and greet before the show. Now. 50 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: I used to go out to the table, but I 51 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: found it difficult because it was lovely meeting the fans, 52 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: but there was quite a lot of drunk people and 53 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: they were trying to grab me. So my view has 54 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: been like, it's much nicer to have some sort of 55 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: dignified greeting with people and be able to spend some 56 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: time with them and chat properly. So we do that 57 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: before the shows. Yeah, so you have these meet and greets, 58 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: do you tend to know personally you're hardcore fans. I 59 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 1: do recognize quite a few of them, Yes, and it's 60 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: it's it's very it's lovely actually too to catch up 61 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: with them, and you know, have this history that goes 62 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: back you know, maybe you know thirty or forty years now. 63 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: I don't know all of them, but they you know, 64 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: they will um, they will make themselves known to me. 65 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,559 Speaker 1: You know, they've written something to me on Twitter or 66 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: something like that. You know, people can eat you know, 67 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: they can get holding me through email if they try 68 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: hard enough. And I try and do one reply a day. Um, 69 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: because I can't reply to all of them, but I 70 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: choose one and at least one person is happy. You 71 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: know how many people reach out in a day? Um? Well, 72 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: because I don't reply all the time, I probably get 73 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: about four or five emails a day. Yeah, and I 74 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: assume they have to be pretty good sleuth. I mean, 75 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 1: your email address is not that readily available, correct, Yeah, 76 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: that's right. They have to work out. That's a kid. 77 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: Let's let's go back to the point of vinyl. If 78 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: I go to a gig, you you mentioned the vinyl 79 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: may or may not be always available. Do you have 80 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: vinyl from every album or do you have specialized product 81 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: for the tour? What do you got? Um? Well, usually 82 00:04:55,520 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: the tour is is associated with an album, but not always. Um. 83 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: You know, vinyl is so hard to get made now, 84 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: so there's usually this big lag. You know that the 85 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: CDs are really quick to make, but everybody wants final 86 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: so it's taking us like six or seven months to 87 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: actually get the vinyl done. I was very skeptical about 88 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 1: releasing it on violent. I thought, I thought, we've got, 89 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: you know, got away from that, you know, a medium 90 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: that's that's got built in noise, you know. I I 91 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 1: it's not the way that I meant it to be 92 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: when I'm working in the studio. However, I have become 93 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: a convert to this sound and there's something about vinyl. 94 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: It's very hard to sort of put your finger on it, 95 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: but it's it's you know, it's got a great sound. 96 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: It's not the sound that we originally we're hearing when 97 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: we mix the record, but it's got another sort of 98 00:05:54,920 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: level of I don't know, nostalgic associated with it that 99 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: really I think it's nice on the ear. I think 100 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: it's something to do with the the sound waves being 101 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: rounded off by the process of making the vinyl. So 102 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: I've become a convert. And now we do vinyl for everything. 103 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: And you know, Cherry Red handle my early catalog and 104 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: they're constantly putting out vinyl to go with things that 105 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: people have never been able to get on viol and 106 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: they absolutely love it. So you know, got to go 107 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 1: with the fans. That's what they want. Okay, what kind 108 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: of mic are you using there? I'm using an appert microphone. 109 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: But the reaon I mentioned is I'm usually the identical mic. 110 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: I could just see. How did you end up with 111 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: the Hide mic club? Well, you know, I've been a 112 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 1: I've been a friend of Bob Clear Mountains for thirty 113 00:06:55,320 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: five years and Betty, of course I've known her for 114 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 1: even longer, and she runs the company. And so I 115 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: got this nice little present one day, which and I 116 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: think it's a great sounding mike, isn't it. It's unbelievable. 117 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: The analog compression is one of the great features. Yeah, wonderful. Okay, 118 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: let's go back to the vinyl thing for a second. 119 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: So you cut digitally, now, how far back in the 120 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: beginning we're gonna like the humans lib was that kind 121 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: of analager digital? Now that was recorded onto multi track analog? 122 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: Although you know we were using UM sampling you know, well, 123 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: I say primitive, but I mean it was. It was 124 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: good quality, but it was it only had like a 125 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: maximum of nine seconds that you could you could you 126 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: could um you could actually sample. So so although we 127 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: were recording to analog, we were using UM. You know, 128 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: it's sort of up to nine second seconds of sampling, 129 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: which was good for like snare drum samples, based drum 130 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: samples and sometimes a bit of vocal stuff to fly 131 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: around you know, the tape. But yeah, it was it 132 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: was human slop and dream interaction actually were recorded onto 133 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: onto multi track tape. Okay, a little bit slower. Okay, 134 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: why is there? You know we have analog tape that 135 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: runs you know, fifteen or thirty i p s. When 136 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: you say you can only use nine seconds, explain a 137 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: little deeper what you mean. Yeah, well, it was the 138 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: it was the very early days of digital sampling. So 139 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: so this was before you know, you had like Aki 140 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: sound samplers and fair lights and things like that. So 141 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 1: in the studio we had a box I'm trying to 142 00:08:55,720 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: remember the name of it now, and Rupert Hine and 143 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: Steve Taylor were you know, early adopters of of this 144 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: of this of this technology, and so they could root 145 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: anything that was being recorded on a desk through to 146 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: the sample. And so for instance, you know, I would 147 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: run my drum machines. But we we thought, well we'd 148 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: like a better a better snare sound, or a better 149 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: bass drum sound, and so we would be able to 150 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: trigger this this sampler, um, you know from my drum machine, 151 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: uh inputs to to actually get you a better sound 152 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: through it? Or does that does that sound? Does that 153 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: make sense? Well? I think that about for the amateur 154 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: one can understand a fifties sevent But let's go back 155 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: to the beginning. So when did you start to play 156 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: a musical instrument? Um? Well, I started around with seven. 157 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: My My parents were Welsh. They both spoke Welsh and 158 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: so in Wales. You know, they grew up in Wales 159 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: and everyone sings and everyone is interested in music. So 160 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: it was really important for them to for for for 161 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: their kids to be able to play an instrument. And 162 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: I was the firstborn and so you know, they got 163 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 1: me piano lessons when I was seven. Um. I absolutely 164 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: hated it at the beginning. I didn't have a very 165 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: inspiring teacher, but they encouraged me to keep going and 166 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: I sort of, you know, ground away at it. I 167 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: got to nine years old and my mother always used 168 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,839 Speaker 1: to have the radio on. So at nine years old, 169 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: I I heard this song that I'd seen on TV 170 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: as well, um, and it was the winner of the 171 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: Eurovision Song Contests. It was a song called Puppet on 172 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: a String by Sandy Shaw, and I heard it on 173 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: the radio and I went to the piano and I 174 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: worked out the tune and how to harm anize it, 175 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: and I thought, and that was like this massive turning 176 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: point for me, um that you know, oh, I can 177 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: hear tunes and I can bring them to the piano 178 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: and start, you know, playing playing them and trying to 179 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 1: get the chords right as well. So so from that 180 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: moment on, I was very obsessed, unhealthily obsessed person with 181 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: the piano. And you couldn't keep me away from it. 182 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: And you know, I should have spent a lot more 183 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: time out playing football with my friends and stuff like that, 184 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: but I was in there banging away on the piano. 185 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: But of course, you know, I guess it paid off 186 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: in the end. It certainly did. But let's okay, you're 187 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:45,199 Speaker 1: playing the piano. It's an analog instrument, and you came 188 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: of age with all these digital innovations, etcetera. When did 189 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: you start experimenting with since and drum machines, ettera. And 190 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: what was the interpiration? Yeah, well, there's a few things. 191 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: And when I when I think back, I mean the 192 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: first band I was in It was a band called Warrior, 193 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: and this was when I was still at school, and 194 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: the drummer in the band was a bit of a 195 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: a kind of electronics whiz, and he actually made me 196 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: a synthesizer from from a kit that they had um 197 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: they'd had in an electronics magazine. I can't remember the 198 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: name of it, but he actually made me a one 199 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: oscillators synthesizer that I could play, you know, in the band. 200 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 1: And so I was like, what, wow, this is amazing. 201 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: And I'd seen Keith Emerson at the Island White Festival 202 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy when I was I was too young 203 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: to be there, but I managed to call my parents 204 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 1: into letting me go and saw Emerson with his huge 205 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: Moog modula and the sounds that were coming out of it. 206 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: It's just absolutely blew my mind. And I kind of 207 00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:59,599 Speaker 1: that was it. Really, that was the turning point. I 208 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 1: think I wanted to be involved in this new way 209 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: of making sounds and this exciting way of of generating sound, 210 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: you know, and being a keyboard player that was gonna, 211 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: you know what, I could eventually start to afford anything 212 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: resembling what Keith had um, you know, I would be 213 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: i'd be there. I used to hang out at the 214 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: local Hammond Organ's shop in high Wycomb on on a 215 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: Saturday afternoon and sort of go in there and they 216 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: kindly let me mess around on the on the Hammonds 217 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: and so that was a huge thing for me. I 218 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: couldn't possibly afford one of those instruments, so my my 219 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 1: parents got me a Larry Heritage um which which they 220 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: got on HP and then we borrowed a Leslie from 221 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: the drummers parents house and we used to take it 222 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: round to gigs. Can you imagine this beautiful piece of 223 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 1: burning so that's meant to be in the home and 224 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 1: we carted it around, you know, all these horrible little 225 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: gigs that we that we were playing at the time. 226 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: But yeah, so that was me and my obsession with keyboards. Really. Okay, 227 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: let's go back, so at age seven you start playing 228 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: the piano. How old are you when you get infected 229 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: by the cnd Shaw song? I think I was. I 230 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: was nine or eleven or something like that around that time, yeah, 231 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: I think. And then when did you start playing in 232 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: being to start working with people live? Yeah, um, well 233 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: I think I played in my very first band. I 234 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: was in Canada because my parents had emigrated to Canada 235 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: twice in fact, and they came back twice. So the 236 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: second time we were out there, I was at high 237 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: school and I was invited to be in a band 238 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: and they got hold of a fox Continental for me 239 00:14:56,240 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: to play, and I played some covers like how So 240 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: the Rising Sun by the Animals and just one or 241 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: two gigs before my parents decided to move back to 242 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: the UK. So, um, it was really that that. That 243 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: was the first time I ever sort of played with with, 244 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: you know, other electric musicians. Okay, just hold one second there. 245 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: How did they know that you played? Were you like 246 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: known as the piano guy? Well, yeah, that's a good, 247 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: good question. I during lunchtimes, during my lunch break at 248 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: the high school, I used to get used to go 249 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: into one of the classrooms where they had a piano 250 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: and start playing, you know, because that's my thing, and 251 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: an audience would gather around and that's how they got 252 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: to know. Um, it became a bit of a thing 253 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: and you would play. Did you also sing at the time. No, 254 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: I didn't sing at the time because I never thought 255 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: of myself as a singer, although I sang as a 256 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: child and my parents were both singers, not professionally even 257 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: you know, because they loved singing. Um. There was always 258 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: music and I used to we used to do Beach 259 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: Boys covers my my brothers and I had three brothers 260 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: and we used to do that, you know, do our 261 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: best with it with with Beach Boys harmonies when we 262 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: were really young, when we didn't have any instruments. Um. 263 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: So yeah, so I did sing any behind. It was 264 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: never on my radar to be the singer, you know. 265 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: That sort of came much later. Okay, let's go back 266 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: to the Beach Boys. Were you singing the Beach Boys 267 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: when you were in Wales? Yes, yes, you know. One 268 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: of the things about our childhood was that I don't 269 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: know what if the tradition is still there now, but 270 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: when we used to visit our grandparents and our uncles 271 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: and aunties, we it was kind of expected that you 272 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: would do you were, you would do a performance. You know, 273 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: they would usually have a piano, so I would play 274 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 1: the piano and then my brothers would join with me 275 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: and and sing harmonies together. So it was you know, 276 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: you kind of it was performing as a natural way 277 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: of life really, so I kind of think that's the 278 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: way it should be, really it. I love that organic, 279 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: the way that music is just part of life and 280 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: you you learn how to sing, you learn how to play, 281 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: and then you go around to somebody's house and you 282 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: and you do it for them, you know. I mean 283 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:44,959 Speaker 1: it's kind of got blown out of all proportion now, 284 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 1: you know, big stages and stadiums and things like that, 285 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: but that's that's the way it was originally. Well, you know, 286 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: you would just gathered together and listen to somebody play 287 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: or listen to somebody sing. Okay, were you a big 288 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:04,719 Speaker 1: beach boy? You know? Um, I was at that age. 289 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: We we were. We were hearing the the um you know, 290 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: the surf era of the of the beach brobs. So 291 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: you know, on the beach we used to sing um 292 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 1: good vibrations. I don't think we were quite up to 293 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: up to doing that. But it was much later that 294 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: I in my life that I realized the genius uh 295 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: you know of other beach boys and I was, I was. 296 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: I was a late comer. I was a late coming 297 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: to it, but once I got there, I was like, 298 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:45,159 Speaker 1: oh wow, this is just so great. Yeah, but what's it? 299 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: What's it like being in Wales listening to surf music. 300 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: I mean, I grew up in the East Coast of 301 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: American Connecticut and I would hear the songs from California. 302 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: Sounded like a dream. I wanted to go out there, 303 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: being the surfing culture. But you were in Whales. So 304 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 1: what were these songs meaning to you? Yeah, well, I 305 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 1: guess you know, it's not so far off really well, 306 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: because well, as you know, you think, Wales is a 307 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: land of song and choirs are everywhere. I remember when 308 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: I was living in Cardiff, I went I used to 309 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: go to a local church where they had concerts on 310 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: and there would be like the Morriston Orpheous Choir there, 311 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: you know, hundred piece male voice choir singing, and it 312 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: just was just part of you know, I didn't you didn't. 313 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: I didn't think anything of it at the time. I 314 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 1: realized now how amazing that it was to have that 315 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: input into my life. Um, and you know, singing was 316 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: was you know, if you go to a football match 317 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: or a rugby match, always the Welsh quiet um. You know, 318 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: crowds sing so beautifully. They're not only saying that, they 319 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 1: harmonized as well. It's a kind of natural ability and 320 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: so hearing the Beach Boys. Really, I guess was oh yeah, well, 321 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 1: you know that's them doing it. But you know in 322 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: the Sunshine in California. Okay, So you were born in 323 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty five the Beatles hit in the UK and 324 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: sixty two in American sixty four. Were you conscious of 325 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: the arrival of the Beatles. Oh yeah, I absolutely was. 326 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: I mean my mother listened to the radio all the time, 327 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: so that's what we were hearing all of that. Um, 328 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: you know, coming through the radio, and the Beatles were 329 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: huge in our family and in my life. Um and 330 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 1: this you know, way before I could I had a 331 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: record player or I could afford to buy a record. Um, 332 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: you know, it was yeah, massive, massive influence. But but 333 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: all the all all those sixties contemporaries of the Beatles 334 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: as well, you know, Freddie and the Dreamers and the Tremolos, 335 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: and you know, I I'd be hearing it, you know, 336 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: constantly and getting very excited. And I'm so glad that 337 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: my mother was a keen radio listener, you know, so 338 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: because we didn't have any other means of recorded music 339 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: in the house. Um, so coming through the radio was 340 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: a big deal. Okay, Needles just say, there was music 341 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 1: before the Beatles, but in the US was palpable. There 342 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: was a youth quake, as they put it. Everything blew up. 343 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 1: There was the Beatles, There was a British invasion and 344 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: ultimately the San Francisco scene in psychedelia, which uh UK 345 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,719 Speaker 1: had a huge part of. There was traffic, etcetera. Was 346 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: that just music or could you feel that it was 347 00:21:55,480 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: really a scene? Into what degree were you dedicated to it? Um? Well, 348 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: I I think I was probably too young to be 349 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: being able to acknowledge any kind of scene, you know 350 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 1: what I mean? You know that you don't have any 351 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: previous with it, you know, you don't you don't have 352 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: any historical references before that. And but it felt to 353 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 1: me like the Beatles were young men, you know, not 354 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: that much older than than you, that were like living 355 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: through history and reflecting the changes in society with their 356 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: music and with the clothes they wore, and the and 357 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: the films they made and the album artwork and the 358 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: clips that we used to see on you know on 359 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: the TV um you know when they when they when 360 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 1: they recorded you know, what is all you need is love? 361 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 1: You know? I was remember watching it on the on 362 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 1: the TV Live as they were doing it, and it's like, 363 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: it's the most exciting thing you could ever imagine. So 364 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: it was. It was amazing actually when you think about it. 365 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: When I think about it, to grow up with them 366 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: and and their development, and you know, the influence they 367 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: had on me and my my schoolmates and everything like that, 368 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: you know, wearing loon pants and you know, going down 369 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: to Carnival Street to buy clothes and you know, it 370 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: was like it was so massive. Um. But you know, 371 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: I guess looking back on it, you realize that massive impact. Um. 372 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 1: At the time, you know, you don't really have any 373 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 1: reference bot you just think, oh wow, music is the 374 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: most exciting thing ever in the world, and these guys 375 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: are the best at doing it. Um. You know. Well, 376 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,160 Speaker 1: you know, the funny thing is, if you're in the UK, 377 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 1: people tend to look down on Liverpool, Lions and Scousers. 378 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 1: What was that like? Was there any fascination with Liverpool, 379 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: the fact that the ban came from there another band? 380 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: You know, because I hadn't really traveled very much around 381 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: my own country. I mean, I've been to Canada twice 382 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: and I think one of the one of the times 383 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,360 Speaker 1: we actually sailed from Liverpool, you know, because we went 384 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: by boat. But I never sort of thought of it 385 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: as geographic guard. Just always thought of it as they 386 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: were in our country, they were of our country. I 387 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: didn't even think about Liverpool or accents. It was just 388 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: you know, the the the British and yeah, you know, 389 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: I didn't analyze it any further than that. Do you 390 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:04,959 Speaker 1: speak Welsh? I can? I can pronounce Welsh and I can. 391 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: I can. I can read it and and and and 392 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: pronounce it. I can sing in Welsh, but I don't 393 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,680 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. My parents, my parents spoke Welsh 394 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 1: at home, but they didn't teach us because they wanted 395 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: to keep a secret language. Actually that was one thing 396 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: that was one payoff of it. But the main reason 397 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: was they thought having to language with languages would be 398 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: an impediment for us. And of course we know now 399 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: it's really good to learn more than a language when 400 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: you're young, but we they they held that back from us. Yeah. 401 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: And what was their history? Were they always you know, 402 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: long lineage and uh Wales or what did they do 403 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: for a living? Yeah? Well, my mother was was was 404 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: born in Swansea in a very very working class family. 405 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: They lived in a tiny house. She had like six brothers. 406 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 1: She was the youngest and the only girl in the family. 407 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: And her father worked in the in the local toy 408 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: factory in uh, you know, it was a factory worker 409 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: down in dan in Swansea. My father came from a 410 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: farming background, parents very so poor that they had to 411 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 1: send him to live with his grandparents because they couldn't 412 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: afford to keep him at home with the other two 413 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 1: children that they had. So so my father was brought 414 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,439 Speaker 1: up by his grandparents and they were very keen for 415 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 1: him to do well, you know, with his with his 416 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 1: with his studies, and he and he and he did 417 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: very well at school and he ended up going to 418 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: university and going to university in Swansea, and that's how 419 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: he met my mother. And so my father, from a 420 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: very poor background, ended up with a good education. And 421 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 1: my mother was a very wonderful, wonderful, wonderful woman, just 422 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 1: full of love for everyone, and everyone loved her and 423 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: so she she they made a great team, you know, 424 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 1: they uh. And my mother was very ambitious for her 425 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: children and did everything she could to help us get on, 426 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: you know. And what did your father do for a living. 427 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: He was He was trained as an electrical engineer and 428 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: he did various um jobs during his life. He taught 429 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,719 Speaker 1: a college UM. He was involved with computers when he 430 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: when he came to Canada and worked for the government 431 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: on computer programs UM and then when he came back 432 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,880 Speaker 1: to the UK, he was a teacher and math teacher, 433 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: and then when he retired he helped my mom run 434 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: off fan club. So yeah, so were you addicted to 435 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: the radio. Your mother was listening, but we were listening 436 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: to Radio Luxembourg Radio Caroline. Absolutely, yes, I was. My 437 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: My father bought me a little transistor radio and he 438 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 1: had one of those little ear pieces. I used to 439 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: fall asleep listening to Pirate radio and I used to 440 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: go in and out of phase and it was a massive, 441 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: you know, thrill, and it felt like almost clandestine to 442 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: be there, you know, in your bed when you should 443 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: be asleep, but your yours. You've got your little transistor 444 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: tucked under the pillow, and you're listen. You're listening to 445 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: all this great music, you know. And what kind of 446 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: student were you? Um? Well, I I think I was. 447 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: I was very competitive. I I I wanted to be 448 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: top the class when I was young and then something 449 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: happened when I came back from Canada the second time, 450 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: I kind of lost interest in school and I started 451 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: to become a little bit of a disruptive person in 452 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: the class. And you know, I wasn't big and sporty 453 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: or anything, but for some reason, the kids used to 454 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: sort of look up to me, so if I did something, 455 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: they would also of like join in with me. I 456 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: feel terrible now we did some terrible things to the teachers. Um, 457 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean it just didn't hold hold my 458 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: own dress any more, you know, the work. And so 459 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: that's when music really took over. And that's something that 460 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: could get so excited about and could put like massive 461 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: amounts of energy and time into. And you know, I 462 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: studied classical piano lessons. I I got to grade eight, 463 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: which is the highest grade you you know, you get 464 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: in the UK. And then you know, I was four 465 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: hours a day practicing. You know. It was I don't 466 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: recommend it, but I just it was one of those 467 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: things I had to do. I just had to do it. 468 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 1: And what did your parents say, Well, they just encouraged me. Really. 469 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: I mean, although I was one of those kids that 470 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: kind of I don't know, almost like had a built 471 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: an agenda from the from a very young age. I mean, 472 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: we came back from Canada two highway come and you know, 473 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: I had no friends. I had to leave all all 474 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: everything I was had going there, you know. I just 475 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: joined the band, had a girlfriend, and it literally got 476 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: ripped away. And I came home and we didn't even 477 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: have a piano. And I said to my mom and dad, 478 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: I said, if you don't get me a piano, I 479 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: will die, you know. And I mean, and in a way, 480 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: I know that sounds very dramatic, but but actually it 481 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: was true. It was there was a part of me 482 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: that would that would wither away, you know. And bless them, 483 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: they the very next weekend they went to Oxford and 484 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: found this piano. I think it cost a hundred pounds 485 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: and they got a high purchase agreement on it and 486 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: it was delivered by monday, you know. And you know 487 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: it's a quite an old piano. But it did the 488 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: job for me, you know, and I'm always so grateful 489 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: for them for that, you know, because they did. They 490 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: really they really responded to my my despair. Okay, how 491 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: old were you when you went to Canada both times? 492 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: And what were your parents motivation to go to Canada 493 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: and come back. Um, well, I was nine when we 494 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: went first first of all, and I came back when 495 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 1: we were eleven, and then we uh, then we left 496 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: again when I was about twelve and a half to 497 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: go to Canada and came back when I was fourteen. 498 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: So the motivation was, you know, my father was he 499 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: was restless, and he wasn't happy doing the job he 500 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: was doing, and he saw Canada as a real chance 501 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: for something new, and he took the brave decision, you know, 502 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: to take the whole family. And I mean there was 503 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: four kids, m and he went out first, and then 504 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: we followed on the on the boat, you know, and 505 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,239 Speaker 1: then of course he he felt the same. Then when 506 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: he got to Canada, he wasn't happy there, so he 507 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: come back, he wasn't happy again, and you know, we 508 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: went out again. So you know, at the time, I 509 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: suppose I I was angry with him because you know, 510 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: he was taking me away from all the things that 511 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: that I loved and then my friends. And but now 512 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: I think to myself, well, he's very made these bold decisions, 513 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: you know, to do monumental you know, disruption to the family. 514 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: But he did it, you know, and I I am, 515 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: I can't you know? It was it was it was 516 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: kind of the making of me in a way. I 517 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: had to be independent and not rely on um others 518 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: to keep myself in a good place. Okay, so you're 519 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: playing a band for a couple of dates Canada, you 520 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,720 Speaker 1: come back. What's how do you get a girlfriend so fast? 521 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:16,479 Speaker 1: And what's the next step in your musical career? Well? 522 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: So okay, So so I'm back in the UK. My 523 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: parents get me the piano and it's really then, um 524 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 1: that I start to you know, I get really into music, 525 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 1: and and people were trading albums at school, you know, 526 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: Vil of course, and bands like Broke oharam Um, you 527 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: know led Zeppelin and um, you know the Beatles and Stones, 528 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 1: and so I was, I was. I was always looking 529 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: at to go to shows and gigs and in high 530 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: Wick and there's a place where the high weakn Town 531 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 1: Hall where they had lots of bands playing. And there 532 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,880 Speaker 1: was a place in Aylesbury Friars where even more exciting 533 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: bands used to play. So I'd be I'd be doing that. 534 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: And then I met an American guy who was at 535 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 1: the school I was in, and he played guitar, and 536 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,840 Speaker 1: it was very keen to former band. And he had 537 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: a house that had a facility for us to be 538 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: able to room, for us to be able to you know, 539 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: to to to play. So I used to take a 540 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: long bus journey every Sunday down to his house and 541 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: we UM and I had a Honer pianet, which is 542 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: a kind of you know, a keyboard with pickups inside. 543 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 1: I used to put it through a vox a C 544 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: thirty am and I used to use a wid Wi 545 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: pedal with it and distortion and I could actually get 546 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: it to sound pretty much like a you know, highly 547 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: amplified guitar at some some sometimes. And so we had 548 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,279 Speaker 1: just a whale of a time doing this music. I 549 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 1: was writing this ridiculously complicated music that lasted twenty minutes 550 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: and it took forever for the other members of the 551 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: band to learn. But bless them, you know, they did. 552 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 1: They kind of enjoyed it, and so I I was. 553 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: It was entirely instrumental um. And we played youth clubs 554 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: and we played local halls, and we actually played in 555 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: our school, and you know, it was like so exciting. 556 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: It's like the most exciting thing you could ever do. 557 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 1: How could I ever want to do anything else? You know, 558 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: it was it was just it was brilliant. Okay. So 559 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 1: do you read music? Yes, yeah, okay, you have lessons? 560 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: When you were playing four hours a day, were you 561 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: also taking lessons? Yes, yes, oh absolutely, yeah, yeah, okay, 562 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: and doing the exams, you know, the music exams. Yeah. 563 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: And at what point do you start to sing? Well, 564 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't until much later that I started 565 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:26,839 Speaker 1: to sing because although although now that's really interesting you've 566 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: asked that, because with the band that the band warrior 567 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: Um evolved to get more sort of older musicians because 568 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 1: my friend, my American friend, left to go back to America, 569 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: and so there was a singer in the band, and 570 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: I knew a poet who wrote these very verbose poems 571 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 1: that basically were pros. They didn't have a rhyming meter 572 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 1: in them at all. But yet I set them to 573 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 1: music and it was so difficult, and I always think 574 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: that really helped me to develop my own style of 575 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: you know, setting words to music. So I would I 576 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: would write the vocal melodies for the singer in the 577 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: band and um, but never thought of myself as a singer. 578 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: You know, I'm a keyboard player. I'm I'm Keith Emison, 579 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: you know, that's that's who I want to be. UM. 580 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,879 Speaker 1: And it wasn't mutually. I you know, went to music 581 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: college UM and did two and a half years studying 582 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 1: now you know, with a great piano teacher, and then 583 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:47,759 Speaker 1: came home and there wasn't anybody around who could sing 584 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: my my stuff. So I thought, I'm going to have 585 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 1: to do this. I'm gonna have to sing. I'm just 586 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 1: gonna have to do it. I'm just gonna have to 587 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,399 Speaker 1: bite the bullet. And I never thought of myself as 588 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: a singer. I thought, well, somebody's going to have to 589 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 1: do it, so it's it's going to be me. And 590 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 1: I think I carried that sort of insecurity about my 591 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: scene for a long time. I don't have that anymore. 592 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: I've got over it now. But in the early days, 593 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, well, I have to do it 594 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 1: because now there's nobody else there. But I was kind 595 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: of glad that I did because it was a big 596 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: part of my my life. Okay, so the band with 597 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 1: the American was called Warrior. Yeah, okay, you leave after 598 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: two and a half years at music college because because 599 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: I I was desperate to get on and do my 600 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,319 Speaker 1: own music. I mean, I didn't know how I was 601 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 1: going to do it, but I was. I was absolutely desperate. 602 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 1: I mean I played in bands while I was in 603 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: Manchester up at the college, and I did sessions on 604 00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: the local radio, um playing others of you know, contemporary 605 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,840 Speaker 1: music like you know Stevie Wonder and stuff, every twenty 606 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,240 Speaker 1: minutes during the night from two a m. To six am. 607 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: I do a song every twenty minutes, UM. And it 608 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: was just it was a legal requirement that you had 609 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:22,920 Speaker 1: a life life musician. Um so. But it was fantastic 610 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,799 Speaker 1: for me because I got to experiment with recording. Because 611 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: I had a little recording studios. I used to bring 612 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,240 Speaker 1: in synthesizers, sometimes used to bring in friends to do stuff, 613 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: and we used to I can't of you know we did. 614 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,440 Speaker 1: I did the covers, but we also started to experiment 615 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:45,160 Speaker 1: with my own music, and you know, I've got even more, 616 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,279 Speaker 1: you know. And then also the brilliant thing was I've 617 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: forgotten about this is that I had access to their 618 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,839 Speaker 1: music library where they had literally thousands of LPs and 619 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 1: I could go in there in between doing these little 620 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 1: numbers to go and listen to Billy Joel and listen 621 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:06,360 Speaker 1: to surfs up, you know, and and discover music that 622 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 1: I couldn't afford to buy myself. And so it was, 623 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 1: it was, it was a really cool thing to do. 624 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 1: But I just got this thing, I'm never going to 625 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 1: be a classical musician. The place was full of these 626 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:24,239 Speaker 1: genius musicians. Um, and that's not going to be me. 627 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,440 Speaker 1: I want to I want to write my own music 628 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: and do my own thing. So I took the bowl step, 629 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 1: left college and I went back to live with my 630 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 1: parents and got the first job that anybody offered me, 631 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 1: which was working in a factory rolling surrand rap to 632 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:49,319 Speaker 1: earn you know, to earn money. And yeah, okay, so 633 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,680 Speaker 1: how long did you rolls ran rap and what were 634 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 1: you doing musically? Yeah? So I think I was there, Um, 635 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,600 Speaker 1: I think I'm so for at least two years, two 636 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 1: and a half years. And so what I was doing 637 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,160 Speaker 1: was was, you know, there was a local recording studio 638 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,360 Speaker 1: forward track recordings too, so I was able to afford 639 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,520 Speaker 1: to go in there late at night, you know, because 640 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 1: I was at work during the day. And I started 641 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,880 Speaker 1: to write some songs and record them with a local 642 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,840 Speaker 1: guy called Derek Tim's who was who was the engineer, 643 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:33,879 Speaker 1: and you know sort of experimented with things. I mean, 644 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:40,280 Speaker 1: I didn't quite know what to do. Finally, UM left 645 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:45,319 Speaker 1: home to go and live with my my my then 646 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,319 Speaker 1: girlfriend now my wife, Jan and we moved into a 647 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:56,480 Speaker 1: bedsit in High Wycomb and you know, we scrimped and 648 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,840 Speaker 1: saved until we could afford to get a mortgage on 649 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 1: a on a small, tiny little house in a quite 650 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,920 Speaker 1: a rough area of town. And at that point I 651 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:10,680 Speaker 1: had room to then think about how I wanted to do, 652 00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:16,560 Speaker 1: you know, my music. And I used to give piano 653 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:22,759 Speaker 1: lessons after the after the you know factory, and I 654 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 1: was at one time I had sixty students, but hardly 655 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:31,920 Speaker 1: well less than half of them came every week. Um, 656 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,319 Speaker 1: but I had a room where I could start saying. 657 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 1: One of my students lent me a drum machine. It 658 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,520 Speaker 1: was called a Bentley rhythm Ace. It's very primitive, like 659 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 1: one you'd have with a you know, electronic organ, and 660 00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,759 Speaker 1: I set some of the beats running. I started playing 661 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,480 Speaker 1: the piano with it, and I thought, wow, this could 662 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 1: be this could be great. You know, you've got the 663 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 1: drummer there. With the drum machine, I can play along, 664 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,359 Speaker 1: and so I thought, I can do like a sort 665 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:05,400 Speaker 1: of electronic one man band. Here. I get some synthesizers, 666 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:10,799 Speaker 1: use the drum machine, a little sequencer, UM, and maybe 667 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,080 Speaker 1: nobody's ever done this before, you know, I thought, wow, 668 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:19,239 Speaker 1: this is really exciting. Sorry, I went about doing that. UM. 669 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,080 Speaker 1: I got a couple of since that I brought up 670 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:27,640 Speaker 1: in Denmark Street. One for base, one for the lead lines. 671 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:32,840 Speaker 1: There were mono since and then I had another keyboard 672 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,279 Speaker 1: that you know, our pegge add stuff. Then had a 673 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,840 Speaker 1: little twelve notes sequencer. So it was all very manual. 674 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 1: I had to set everything up before a gig. But 675 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,400 Speaker 1: I started to get gigs. I would play anywhere, and 676 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 1: you know it's hard for any musician getting a gig 677 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,960 Speaker 1: in it. So we would phone up pubs and say, look, 678 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,800 Speaker 1: we'll set up the stage a little stays in the corner. 679 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,320 Speaker 1: We'll bring lots of people, they'll drink loads of beer 680 00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,480 Speaker 1: and you'll, you know, you'll be really happy. And this 681 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:03,720 Speaker 1: it wasn't like a regular club gig. I couldn't possibly 682 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,960 Speaker 1: approach anybody in London. I wasn't. I wasn't. I wasn't 683 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,879 Speaker 1: ready for that. UM, and we started to build quite 684 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:16,680 Speaker 1: a following, you know, with people coming to those little shows. Um, 685 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:20,960 Speaker 1: people started to start traveling with us. We arranged coaches 686 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,399 Speaker 1: so they could come to gigs because gigs always wanted 687 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,280 Speaker 1: you to bring your your own audience, you know, so people. 688 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,880 Speaker 1: You know, we used to get sixty coaches filled with 689 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:37,400 Speaker 1: people from high Wacker. We travel around the countries. I 690 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: think our record was three coaches for that when we 691 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:44,719 Speaker 1: played the Marquis in London, so so and it was 692 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,239 Speaker 1: It was great because it was such an organic development 693 00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:51,360 Speaker 1: of the of the sound, because I'd be working away 694 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: in my front room and then in the evening I'd 695 00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,439 Speaker 1: be out playing it to people, you know, brand new 696 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:03,480 Speaker 1: stuff and developing concept of the electronic musician, you know, 697 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:09,040 Speaker 1: playing live. Okay, it was all original material. When you 698 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:13,880 Speaker 1: say we, who was we? Well, it was all It 699 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,919 Speaker 1: was all original material. I never played anything. The only 700 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,000 Speaker 1: cover I did was an in La game by O. M. D. 701 00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:24,520 Speaker 1: Which I loved so much. Um. Yeah, So when I 702 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,240 Speaker 1: say we, you know, I had to be helped by friends. 703 00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:32,359 Speaker 1: So friends who did sound for me, um, friends who 704 00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:36,960 Speaker 1: helped me move the gear and then eventually Jed, who 705 00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:42,520 Speaker 1: was was the mine you know who I saw in 706 00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:45,320 Speaker 1: the audience. He was a friend who danced in the audience. 707 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,279 Speaker 1: I thought he should be on stage with me. Let's 708 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:52,440 Speaker 1: create characters two to go with the music. So that 709 00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:54,640 Speaker 1: so that, you know, we have something visual going on. 710 00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:59,360 Speaker 1: Because I'm a keyboard player, you know, I'm fairly static. Um, 711 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:03,200 Speaker 1: we need some visual things. So jed was that we 712 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:09,040 Speaker 1: got some TVs, uh, and a friend made some video 713 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,319 Speaker 1: tapes that we could show on the TV. So we 714 00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:19,279 Speaker 1: had kind of an audio visual alternative, you know, cabaret 715 00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,279 Speaker 1: almost type type thing with it, with all this with 716 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,719 Speaker 1: all this new electronic music, it was such fun. We 717 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,560 Speaker 1: had such a great time doing it. And um, it 718 00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:31,799 Speaker 1: was like there was no fear, you know, he just 719 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,960 Speaker 1: went out there and tried something new every night. It's 720 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:45,319 Speaker 1: just great. I did love those times. I mean, I 721 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 1: know how hard it is to gain an audience. Who 722 00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:53,680 Speaker 1: is managing the audience, who is ordering the coaches, who 723 00:47:53,800 --> 00:48:00,560 Speaker 1: is spreading the word. Yeah, well my my, my, my 724 00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:06,160 Speaker 1: wife jan was was organizing the coaches. I didn't have 725 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,759 Speaker 1: the confidence to phone up pubs and say, you know, 726 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,600 Speaker 1: will you have me playing there? So I got my friends. 727 00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,839 Speaker 1: My friends do that. So I was I had this, Um, 728 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,400 Speaker 1: you know, a great group of friends who who helped 729 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,960 Speaker 1: me to do it. Yeah, I mean, and we kind 730 00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,040 Speaker 1: of did it together. And was there any money involved? 731 00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,960 Speaker 1: Oh no, no, now we uh we used to sell 732 00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,719 Speaker 1: cassettes that I used to make myself one by one 733 00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:39,040 Speaker 1: at home and just to pay for petrol and and 734 00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:43,080 Speaker 1: actually to you know, buy food. To be honest, we 735 00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:50,000 Speaker 1: were it was like, you know, so much with Jan 736 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:51,920 Speaker 1: was working at the tax office. I was working in 737 00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:53,960 Speaker 1: the factory, so we weren't earning a lot of money, 738 00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,279 Speaker 1: and it was all going on funding the you know, 739 00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:03,440 Speaker 1: funding the music. I mean there was one and then 740 00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,080 Speaker 1: one of the jobs that we did was I did 741 00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,239 Speaker 1: I wanted to get out of the factory because I 742 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,600 Speaker 1: needed more time to perhaps go up to London and 743 00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,800 Speaker 1: see a n R men or whatever that was. I 744 00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,200 Speaker 1: didn't even I didn't know anything about the music business 745 00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:22,160 Speaker 1: at zero. Um. So we were out one night, We're 746 00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,439 Speaker 1: doing this fruit and vege round and a drunk driver 747 00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,399 Speaker 1: hit the front of the van. The van rolled over 748 00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:30,920 Speaker 1: my wife Jan. She was trapped under the van. I 749 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:37,200 Speaker 1: was inside the van and was unharmed, but Jan injured 750 00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:42,320 Speaker 1: her back. She was in hospital and with the money 751 00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,400 Speaker 1: that she got from the insurance of the of the 752 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,360 Speaker 1: driver she wanted to give to me to buy since 753 00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:54,239 Speaker 1: and so I bought, you know, my first Jupiter eight. 754 00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:59,839 Speaker 1: And it was a big moment because we both could 755 00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:03,600 Speaker 1: have be and killed that night, and I thought, there's 756 00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:07,160 Speaker 1: nothing to lose here. You know, your life maybe over, 757 00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:10,920 Speaker 1: you know, um, in the next hour, the next day. 758 00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,600 Speaker 1: So just go for it, you know, go for what 759 00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,640 Speaker 1: you really want to do. Don't hold back, don't have 760 00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,120 Speaker 1: a plan b just go for it. And that really 761 00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:26,040 Speaker 1: did change and we things really started to move after 762 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:30,440 Speaker 1: that because there was this new real commitment. You know, 763 00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:34,080 Speaker 1: there's no time to waste, let's get going. And it 764 00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,960 Speaker 1: wasn't very long after that. Well there was quite a story, 765 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:43,239 Speaker 1: but um, you know I did. Things started to move 766 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:50,200 Speaker 1: for me until what happened. Um, well, you know I 767 00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:56,040 Speaker 1: was I was sending out tapes to everyone and getting complete. 768 00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:58,360 Speaker 1: You know, we we still have all the rejection letters. 769 00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:03,000 Speaker 1: It's fun to eat them. Um. All of publishers, all 770 00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:09,520 Speaker 1: the labels big and small, just said no. Except one 771 00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:17,040 Speaker 1: one guy, um from Stiff Records, and his name was 772 00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,920 Speaker 1: Paul Conroy. He was the I think it was that 773 00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,880 Speaker 1: he was marketing there. But he came to see me. 774 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:26,480 Speaker 1: I was playing The Nag's Head in high Wickham and 775 00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,640 Speaker 1: he brought Dave Robin Robinson, who was the m D. 776 00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,520 Speaker 1: Stiff was not a good fit for me really because 777 00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:41,279 Speaker 1: it was you know, Elvis Costello madness. You know, I 778 00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:45,000 Speaker 1: suppose you could say, you know, more hip, cool, cooler 779 00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:46,920 Speaker 1: acts than I was I was ever going to be. 780 00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:55,120 Speaker 1: And but Paul came came to the gig and there 781 00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:57,439 Speaker 1: was there was some sort of row on the way 782 00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:02,480 Speaker 1: home with hit with with him and Dave Robinson and 783 00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,600 Speaker 1: his wife. I think there was well, there was a 784 00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:11,360 Speaker 1: heated exchange and and Paul said, let me out of 785 00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:16,399 Speaker 1: the car. Now we missed out on Depeche Mode, We're 786 00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:20,759 Speaker 1: not missing out on this guy. So Paul's commitment was 787 00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,839 Speaker 1: just incredible. And so I was lined up to sign 788 00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:30,040 Speaker 1: to Stiff. So I was playing a gig in London 789 00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,560 Speaker 1: and I was going to be signing the contract after 790 00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:39,000 Speaker 1: the show, and so the contracts were there. This is like, 791 00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:41,120 Speaker 1: this is my big break. I'm actually going to sign 792 00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,040 Speaker 1: a record deal. And Paul comes in and he says, 793 00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:49,279 Speaker 1: don't sign it. Don't sign I said, what are you 794 00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:51,920 Speaker 1: talking about. I've been waiting my whole twenty eight. You know, 795 00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,920 Speaker 1: I'm already sort of past sell by date for a 796 00:52:55,960 --> 00:53:00,880 Speaker 1: young artists. He said, no, I'm I've just been offered 797 00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:07,120 Speaker 1: this job with w E A h with with Rob Dickens, 798 00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,640 Speaker 1: m D and Max Hole and A and I said, 799 00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:13,440 Speaker 1: I want you to come with me to w A. 800 00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:20,520 Speaker 1: What an amazing break to have, you know, And I'm 801 00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:22,880 Speaker 1: so grateful and they so I was there kind of 802 00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:28,600 Speaker 1: first signing, so they were absolutely determined that we were 803 00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:32,520 Speaker 1: going to have success together and we did, you know, 804 00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:36,680 Speaker 1: right from the first single. Okay, a little bit slower 805 00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:41,520 Speaker 1: you signed the deal? To what degree are the songs written? 806 00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:46,120 Speaker 1: How do you end up involved with another lyricist? You know, 807 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:50,680 Speaker 1: did these songs just spontaneously happen or was there a 808 00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:54,960 Speaker 1: lot of input from Paul and other people? Now that well, 809 00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,759 Speaker 1: the songs we were there, you know from all my 810 00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:02,279 Speaker 1: ho of little gigs I was doing. So the first 811 00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,560 Speaker 1: album was really ready, you know, it was it was 812 00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,400 Speaker 1: it was what I was playing live. And we just 813 00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,879 Speaker 1: needed to find the right person for me to work with. 814 00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:16,920 Speaker 1: And I think it was Max Hole's idea for me 815 00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,920 Speaker 1: to work with Rupert Hind And what a brilliant move. 816 00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:23,279 Speaker 1: That was because Rupert was the perfect person for me 817 00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:28,600 Speaker 1: and absolutely wonderful man. And Steve Taylor, who I still 818 00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:34,319 Speaker 1: work with now. Um yeah, it was, yeah, it was, 819 00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:36,360 Speaker 1: it was, It was. It was so excited because I, 820 00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:41,600 Speaker 1: you know, the first single, it was a bit of 821 00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:48,200 Speaker 1: a struggle to record and um, you know it there 822 00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:50,399 Speaker 1: to get other people into sort of fix things. I'd 823 00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,080 Speaker 1: never been in a proper studio before, so I couldn't 824 00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:56,279 Speaker 1: really add much to it all a while said you know, 825 00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:57,720 Speaker 1: this is what I do, this is what it sounds 826 00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:03,320 Speaker 1: like live. Um. But anyway, it it came together in 827 00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:08,080 Speaker 1: the end, and it took forever to go up the charts. 828 00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:11,160 Speaker 1: I think it took three or three months to go. 829 00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,400 Speaker 1: Came in at number hundred and six. I think it 830 00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:18,280 Speaker 1: was actually you're you probably know more than me about this, Bob, 831 00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:21,759 Speaker 1: You're an expert at those sort of figures. But it 832 00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:26,680 Speaker 1: came in a bit disappointingly, you know, hundred and six, 833 00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:30,359 Speaker 1: and then crept up the charts every week. It's just 834 00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,920 Speaker 1: a few places, a few places, and at any point 835 00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:36,480 Speaker 1: they could have lost it and it would all have 836 00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:39,359 Speaker 1: been over. But it kept going, kept going, got top 837 00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,200 Speaker 1: of the pops, and that was it. The floodgates opened 838 00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:47,279 Speaker 1: and the single ended up at number three, you know, 839 00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:53,440 Speaker 1: and we kind of never looked back from there. Really. Okay, 840 00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:57,400 Speaker 1: when the record was finished in the studio, did you 841 00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:03,439 Speaker 1: think it was going to go up the chart? Um? 842 00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:08,799 Speaker 1: I had. I had no idea. I I liked to 843 00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,719 Speaker 1: think that it would. I had no confidence that it would. 844 00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:18,239 Speaker 1: But I remember um listen listening to Radio one and 845 00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,440 Speaker 1: they had this thing all round table where they reviewed 846 00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:24,880 Speaker 1: new singles, and it was going to be the first 847 00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,040 Speaker 1: playing of one of my songs on the radio. So 848 00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:33,640 Speaker 1: I was like kind of excited but also terrified. And 849 00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:40,600 Speaker 1: Gary Newman was on the panel, and and and and 850 00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:44,040 Speaker 1: Gary said, oh, I think it's great. I think it's 851 00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,320 Speaker 1: going to be a big hit. So it's like Gary 852 00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:52,040 Speaker 1: Newman is saying that, So so that was I hope 853 00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:54,319 Speaker 1: he's heard that story because I really want to thank 854 00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:57,480 Speaker 1: him for it, because it gave me a big boost 855 00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:00,799 Speaker 1: at the time. It was great. And how do you 856 00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:05,239 Speaker 1: end up working with lyricist Bill Bryant. Well, Bill was, 857 00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:09,919 Speaker 1: you know, a friend from from the old days, and 858 00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:16,360 Speaker 1: you know he is very committed to sort of you know, 859 00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:21,280 Speaker 1: philosophical ideas, which was very much in tune with me. 860 00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:26,640 Speaker 1: So he used to give me like, uh, you know, 861 00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:33,400 Speaker 1: sheets of paper with ideas, you know, not really sort 862 00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:37,280 Speaker 1: of formed poetry, and then I would we weave it 863 00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:42,040 Speaker 1: into a song. And so there was several tracks on 864 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:45,400 Speaker 1: that first album that he had a big input with 865 00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:50,120 Speaker 1: with you know, with the lyrics. Yeah, and the single 866 00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:53,320 Speaker 1: was the whole album done when the single came out? 867 00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,920 Speaker 1: Or was the single released in moving up the charts 868 00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:01,120 Speaker 1: while you were still cutting the rest of Humans lib? Yeah? Yeah, 869 00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:06,080 Speaker 1: Well the new song was released, and because it took 870 00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:09,840 Speaker 1: so long to go up the chart, Um, it was 871 00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:11,920 Speaker 1: good in a way because we had a chance to 872 00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:16,840 Speaker 1: find the right producer for me, which was Ruper, you know, 873 00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:24,120 Speaker 1: with Steve Taylor doing the engineering. And so as it 874 00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:26,200 Speaker 1: was getting to do A three, I was in the 875 00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:30,520 Speaker 1: studio with Ruper and we were we were recording what 876 00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:32,560 Speaker 1: could be the next single, which is what Is Love? 877 00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:37,760 Speaker 1: And it was incredibly exciting because it felt like, you know, 878 00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,960 Speaker 1: what is Love was going to be you know, this time, 879 00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:44,760 Speaker 1: we wouldn't start at number hundred nine with we would 880 00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:48,560 Speaker 1: probably be getting airplay straight away. So it was really 881 00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:55,640 Speaker 1: exciting and I think the energy really um got poured 882 00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:57,600 Speaker 1: into the album and it was made really quickly. I 883 00:58:57,600 --> 00:58:59,720 Speaker 1: think it was six weeks it took to do it 884 00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:05,320 Speaker 1: completely and mixed and everything, and there was a lot. Yeah, 885 00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:10,360 Speaker 1: it was just excitement energy around it all and that 886 00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:12,400 Speaker 1: that gets embedded in the music, you know. And I 887 00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:16,960 Speaker 1: think it was again you know, for me, I've never 888 00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:20,800 Speaker 1: never recorded a record properly with anybody. So Rupert and 889 00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:25,400 Speaker 1: Steve were We're teaching me how to make records. And 890 00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:29,160 Speaker 1: it was a fantastic education. It was like, you know, 891 00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,760 Speaker 1: a university course in the studio. It was just amazing 892 00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:38,160 Speaker 1: watching them at work and the way they thought, and 893 00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:44,400 Speaker 1: the way about structure and about placing sounds, and you know, 894 00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:47,400 Speaker 1: it was and Rupert at this great way of making 895 00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:52,480 Speaker 1: everything fun. You know, it wasn't like a dreary. He 896 00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:54,600 Speaker 1: would never let me do more than four takes on 897 00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:57,240 Speaker 1: the vocal because he didn't want me to get forward 898 00:59:57,240 --> 00:59:59,680 Speaker 1: out of my mind. It would be four takes, that's it. 899 01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:05,240 Speaker 1: Comp those four and that's it. And that always worked. Um. 900 01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:13,200 Speaker 1: And you know, like very spontaneous performances, nothing labored um. 901 01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:16,320 Speaker 1: And you know, all this amazing experience that he had, 902 01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:20,880 Speaker 1: so I gained so much from that. Yeah. Well, my 903 01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:23,760 Speaker 1: favorite song on the album is Hide and Seek. Can 904 01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:29,600 Speaker 1: you tell me about writing and recording that? Yeah, I remember, 905 01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:34,840 Speaker 1: you know, in our little house in Green Street, coming 906 01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:38,600 Speaker 1: down one Sunday morning and having this idea for a 907 01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:45,280 Speaker 1: heartbeat rhythm, and I sort of programmed it into the 908 01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:49,200 Speaker 1: A to eight drum machine, you know, Dum dum, doom dum, 909 01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:56,040 Speaker 1: and this song just came. You know, it's it's that 910 01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:59,480 Speaker 1: doesn't happen to me very often, but this one, it's 911 01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:05,960 Speaker 1: sort of what came preformed. Um. And I I've been 912 01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:14,960 Speaker 1: reading a lot of um philosophical works about the you know, 913 01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:22,000 Speaker 1: the Eastern philosophy and Western philosophy coming together, and it 914 01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:26,920 Speaker 1: very much you know, the idea M Watson wasn't it. 915 01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,560 Speaker 1: I can't remember his first name. I think it was 916 01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:36,520 Speaker 1: an English philosopher who had gone to live in California. Alan, Sorry, 917 01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:38,680 Speaker 1: Alan Watts, that's right. And I was reading a lot 918 01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,920 Speaker 1: of reading a lot of that, and and he was 919 01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:46,040 Speaker 1: talking about how you would describe God to a child, 920 01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:52,560 Speaker 1: and he was saying, you know, um that you know, 921 01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:59,440 Speaker 1: telling a story of of of God deciding that he 922 01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:03,000 Speaker 1: would lose himself in everything, and so you you had 923 01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:07,200 Speaker 1: to find him. And the fact is that that or 924 01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:11,480 Speaker 1: he or she you know, you know, um, And so 925 01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:18,040 Speaker 1: that that that god entity was in everything and surrounding everything, 926 01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:22,200 Speaker 1: and that to me was very much linking Eastern philosophy 927 01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:27,320 Speaker 1: and Western philosophy at the same time. And you know, 928 01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:29,680 Speaker 1: I hope you find it and everything. It's the chorus 929 01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:33,360 Speaker 1: and so you know, that's very much about about that 930 01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:37,440 Speaker 1: theme that that you if you, if you look around you, 931 01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:40,600 Speaker 1: all the answers are there if you if you really 932 01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:44,640 Speaker 1: open your eyes to what's going on, Um, the answers 933 01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:48,320 Speaker 1: are right in front of you. And yeah, so that's 934 01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:52,640 Speaker 1: why this song came from. Really us. How did you 935 01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:55,040 Speaker 1: end up on an electurer in the US? And you 936 01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:58,640 Speaker 1: do have a relationship with Barb Kraus, now, yeah, yeah, 937 01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:01,160 Speaker 1: well it was it was to do with Bob. Bob 938 01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:06,640 Speaker 1: came over to London, and you know, because I could 939 01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:09,480 Speaker 1: have gone with any of the you know, the three 940 01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,919 Speaker 1: companies won his electric so I think that I think 941 01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:17,720 Speaker 1: they all wanted me, but Bob was the the guy 942 01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:21,760 Speaker 1: who you know, I mean, he really impressed me, and 943 01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:25,160 Speaker 1: he was so full of life and such a big character, 944 01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,439 Speaker 1: and he convinced me that they would do a great 945 01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:33,240 Speaker 1: job for me, and they did, they really did. Okay, 946 01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:37,880 Speaker 1: this you're considered part of the group of the English 947 01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:43,160 Speaker 1: New Wave, and certainly that coincided with the explosion of MTV, 948 01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:47,440 Speaker 1: which leads us to videos. At what point did videos 949 01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:51,480 Speaker 1: come into the picture? What was your experience there? Yeah, well, 950 01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:54,160 Speaker 1: videos for me were right right for the beginning because 951 01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:58,720 Speaker 1: new song, you know, we're starting this new era. Everyone 952 01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:03,320 Speaker 1: was doing a video and the new song video. I 953 01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:06,360 Speaker 1: wanted to be involved in the you know, in the 954 01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:12,000 Speaker 1: narrative of it because yeah, because you know, I'm very 955 01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:14,680 Speaker 1: involved in my in everything to do with my music, 956 01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:18,680 Speaker 1: I want to be very involved with the video. So 957 01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:23,040 Speaker 1: we thought we'd doing almost like autobiographical video of me 958 01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:28,680 Speaker 1: and Jed, you know, being in the factory. Um it 959 01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:30,800 Speaker 1: wasn't a surround rap factory. It was that, you know, 960 01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:34,840 Speaker 1: it was we found a pickle factory and we're bursting 961 01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:38,640 Speaker 1: out of the of the factory, jumping into a Rolls 962 01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:44,680 Speaker 1: Royce and driving off to you know, price sunny future. 963 01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:47,680 Speaker 1: But also we go into we go into a school 964 01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:54,040 Speaker 1: as well, and you know, you know, trying almost like um, 965 01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:58,560 Speaker 1: you know, cause anarchy in the in the classroom. Um, 966 01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:03,480 Speaker 1: sort of mild really, you know, taking you know, making 967 01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:06,840 Speaker 1: fun of the of the teachers and standing on the 968 01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:10,280 Speaker 1: desks and then you know, and then running out. You know, 969 01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:12,760 Speaker 1: we're running out of the school with the kids. So yeah, 970 01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:15,480 Speaker 1: so it was really good fun. It was such good 971 01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:17,840 Speaker 1: fun making videos. It was done in a day. It 972 01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:23,920 Speaker 1: didn't cost sadly anything. Um and you know that was 973 01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:27,640 Speaker 1: what you know, we thought, you know, we're making this 974 01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:31,440 Speaker 1: for MTV and and it was great. It was going 975 01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:35,840 Speaker 1: to be shown, you know. So um yeah, I'm so 976 01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:38,240 Speaker 1: glad that I've got the chance to work with visual 977 01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:41,920 Speaker 1: side of things, because you know, you have to think differently. 978 01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:44,200 Speaker 1: You have to think about what it looks like, you 979 01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:46,720 Speaker 1: have to think about clothing, you have to look think 980 01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:54,000 Speaker 1: about narrative and what you stand for, and it sort 981 01:05:54,000 --> 01:06:01,439 Speaker 1: of expands that are creative process. Really, I loved it. Okay, 982 01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,200 Speaker 1: what's it like suddenly being in the Maelstrom You go 983 01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:09,240 Speaker 1: from nowhere to having multiple huge hits. Yeah, well it was. 984 01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:13,080 Speaker 1: It was crazy. It was absolutely crazy. I don't think 985 01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:17,240 Speaker 1: anybody could be prepared for that unless you were brought 986 01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:22,560 Speaker 1: up in a celebrity family. I suppose you might understand 987 01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:26,760 Speaker 1: and then probably would put you off for life ever 988 01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:30,280 Speaker 1: doing the same thing. Um, it was just that I 989 01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:34,560 Speaker 1: couldn't go anywhere. When I tried to go into town, 990 01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:41,080 Speaker 1: I got chased by you know, thirty thirty teenagers. I 991 01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:46,080 Speaker 1: you know, I had to sort of hide away. I mean, 992 01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:49,880 Speaker 1: I was it was it was a shock because I 993 01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:53,920 Speaker 1: wasn't living in London. I was living outside. And you know, 994 01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:56,200 Speaker 1: I think in London you can you can, you can 995 01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:59,520 Speaker 1: be known and sort of walk around the streets and 996 01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:01,120 Speaker 1: find like you kind in New York or l A 997 01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:04,600 Speaker 1: or somewhere, but but not not in not in High Wycomb. 998 01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:08,680 Speaker 1: And it was it was a shock, but it was 999 01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:13,280 Speaker 1: incredibly exciting at the same time because you were doing 1000 01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:15,480 Speaker 1: the things that you dreamt that you may be able 1001 01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:19,320 Speaker 1: to do one at some time, being on a TV, 1002 01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:24,960 Speaker 1: doing great gigs, doing big gigs, you know, meeting people 1003 01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:29,560 Speaker 1: that you never met before that you'd put up on 1004 01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:33,440 Speaker 1: a pedestal and you know, I mean just going to 1005 01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:35,800 Speaker 1: Top of the Pops and seeing all the bands and 1006 01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:38,160 Speaker 1: and and saying a load to that. I mean, it 1007 01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:43,200 Speaker 1: was just it was fantastic. So that on one side 1008 01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:46,720 Speaker 1: is things are never going to be the same because 1009 01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:51,600 Speaker 1: overnight everyone knew who you were so you. And also, 1010 01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:55,160 Speaker 1: you know, I was quite recognizable all the way I 1011 01:07:55,200 --> 01:07:58,120 Speaker 1: looked and dressed, so I wasn't going to be able 1012 01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:02,480 Speaker 1: to hide that very easily. So your freedom gets taken 1013 01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:04,760 Speaker 1: away a bit in one way, but then a whole 1014 01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:09,320 Speaker 1: new world opens up. Now. I was very lucky because 1015 01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:13,160 Speaker 1: I had my friends around me at that time, you know, 1016 01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:17,200 Speaker 1: a jan Um and people who did my sound and 1017 01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:22,280 Speaker 1: people who did my lights. You know, they've grown up 1018 01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:24,240 Speaker 1: with me. They'd seen me come from nothing, so I 1019 01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:28,920 Speaker 1: had them to help me stay grounded as a person. 1020 01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:35,000 Speaker 1: And you know those people, Most of those people ended 1021 01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:38,200 Speaker 1: up doing Madison Square Garden with me, you know a 1022 01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:42,439 Speaker 1: few years later, and I'm really proud of that and 1023 01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:46,360 Speaker 1: that the same team was still still with me. And 1024 01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:52,599 Speaker 1: I think they protected me from losing my mind, which 1025 01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:58,640 Speaker 1: I think can happen. What about the temptations, Well, you 1026 01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:02,680 Speaker 1: know I've got my jan you know, my my lovely jan. 1027 01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:09,760 Speaker 1: So I I was not I was not on the 1028 01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:15,080 Speaker 1: I was not looking for a relationship that really helped me. 1029 01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:18,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I used to drink, but I used to 1030 01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:21,479 Speaker 1: drink before I got famous. I you know, I have 1031 01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:24,439 Speaker 1: a few pints down the Bann the pub not anything 1032 01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:31,200 Speaker 1: of a problem. I'm not interested in drugs, so I 1033 01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:33,120 Speaker 1: didn't really have that side of it. We didn't live 1034 01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:37,360 Speaker 1: in a drugg area in the High Wyke Um particularly, 1035 01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:45,200 Speaker 1: I wasn't in London and New York, so I think that, yeah, 1036 01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:48,920 Speaker 1: I just didn't go that that way. And I think 1037 01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:54,120 Speaker 1: because I was older, I got signed, So maybe I've 1038 01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:55,880 Speaker 1: got a lot of that out of my system, you know, 1039 01:09:56,000 --> 01:10:02,400 Speaker 1: before before before that struck. And when did you see 1040 01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:07,120 Speaker 1: any money and what did you do with it? Well, 1041 01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:15,120 Speaker 1: they said they told me that I recoup my advance 1042 01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:22,280 Speaker 1: with the first single, so isn't that amazing? Um? And 1043 01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:30,759 Speaker 1: also my manager, David Stops made sure that I owned 1044 01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:36,120 Speaker 1: my own publishing right from the beginning. I was administered 1045 01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:40,160 Speaker 1: by Warner Brothers, but it was owned by me. They 1046 01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:46,280 Speaker 1: didn't own a share of it. And I'm eternally grateful 1047 01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:50,040 Speaker 1: to him for that. You know, he knows that I've 1048 01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:52,800 Speaker 1: told him so much because it's it's because I write 1049 01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:56,599 Speaker 1: everything myself, so so it's it's it's really important that 1050 01:10:56,640 --> 01:11:00,160 Speaker 1: you you've got something, through good times and bad that 1051 01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:03,600 Speaker 1: can fund what you really want to do, you know, 1052 01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:08,720 Speaker 1: with your with your career. So just fantastic. But that 1053 01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:12,160 Speaker 1: and then you know, I could afford to make really 1054 01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:17,800 Speaker 1: good videos with great video directors, you know, because the money, 1055 01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:22,160 Speaker 1: you know, the money was coming in. Um and then 1056 01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:27,519 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, so so I've kind of been very 1057 01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:31,080 Speaker 1: very fortunate in that in that way. But I come 1058 01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:36,719 Speaker 1: from a background where you know, we never had any money. 1059 01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:40,200 Speaker 1: So I don't think that ever leaves you. You know, 1060 01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:45,360 Speaker 1: you you always I want to be careful, you know, 1061 01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:48,240 Speaker 1: want to be careful. Have you know, make sure that 1062 01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:52,800 Speaker 1: if something, if something goes horribly wrong, that you've got 1063 01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:55,759 Speaker 1: to be of a backup. You know that you because 1064 01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:58,519 Speaker 1: I couldn't exactly go back to working in a factory 1065 01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:00,840 Speaker 1: now you know, wouldn't It was not going to work, 1066 01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:06,400 Speaker 1: so um, so make sure that you you know, take 1067 01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:09,400 Speaker 1: you know, make sure that you have got back up. 1068 01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:15,360 Speaker 1: Do you still own your publishing? Yes? I do. Yeah. 1069 01:12:15,439 --> 01:12:20,479 Speaker 1: Would you ever sell it? That's a really good question 1070 01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:25,720 Speaker 1: because I've thought about it quite a lot, because I 1071 01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:29,400 Speaker 1: get why people towards the end of their career, end 1072 01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:33,720 Speaker 1: of their life consider it because they don't want to 1073 01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:37,760 Speaker 1: land their kids with a massive problem or you know, 1074 01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:44,280 Speaker 1: of administering you know, your your legacy it's not you know, 1075 01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:48,640 Speaker 1: it's not theirs, it's it's yours. You're handing them a 1076 01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:51,960 Speaker 1: bit of a problem. And I think that a lot 1077 01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:53,960 Speaker 1: of my you know, I've had this conversation with a 1078 01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:58,960 Speaker 1: lot of my contemporaries about, you know, why they would 1079 01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:03,840 Speaker 1: consider doing it, and I think, you know, in the 1080 01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:10,000 Speaker 1: next few years, I will, I will think about it, um, 1081 01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,960 Speaker 1: but it would. The reason for that is to make 1082 01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:17,559 Speaker 1: it simple for my my kids. And how are revenues 1083 01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:26,320 Speaker 1: from publishing these days? Yeah? Well, that that good because 1084 01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:30,000 Speaker 1: I still get played on the radio pretty much as 1085 01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:33,920 Speaker 1: much as I've always been forgetting savings. Can you just 1086 01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:38,800 Speaker 1: live off the income of your songs? Yes, yes, that's fantastic, 1087 01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:49,400 Speaker 1: comfortably do that. Yeah. Okay, so you have this huge 1088 01:13:49,479 --> 01:13:53,240 Speaker 1: success on the first album, How inhibited are you about 1089 01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:55,799 Speaker 1: going in and making a second record? Are the songs 1090 01:13:55,840 --> 01:13:59,600 Speaker 1: already written? You have to write on what? Well? I 1091 01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:04,519 Speaker 1: was absolutely terrified about writing the second album because I 1092 01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:06,880 Speaker 1: had the songs the first one, I had nothing for 1093 01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:13,160 Speaker 1: the second one, and and I was working literally every 1094 01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:19,400 Speaker 1: day in some capacity, promoting in the studio, doing TVs, 1095 01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:24,160 Speaker 1: and it even included like being going to children's hospitals 1096 01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:29,040 Speaker 1: and on Christmas Day, you know, to it was literally 1097 01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:31,599 Speaker 1: every day. So where how the hell am I going 1098 01:14:31,640 --> 01:14:35,759 Speaker 1: to write? And you I was terrified because it taken 1099 01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:37,880 Speaker 1: me so long to get to the point where I 1100 01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:42,519 Speaker 1: had a record deal and I had some success. I 1101 01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:44,960 Speaker 1: didn't want to blow it. You know, it's like, oh, 1102 01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:50,200 Speaker 1: you know, I was. I was scared. So I thought, well, 1103 01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:52,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to have to write on the road. I'm 1104 01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:56,080 Speaker 1: going to you know, in those times between the sound 1105 01:14:56,200 --> 01:14:58,360 Speaker 1: check and when you go on stage. I'm going to 1106 01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:03,840 Speaker 1: have to be writing wherever that is. So I got 1107 01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:10,160 Speaker 1: this twelve track recorder that I could that my road 1108 01:15:10,320 --> 01:15:12,559 Speaker 1: is set up for me in in every in every 1109 01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:16,320 Speaker 1: dressing room, and I would write, you know, in the 1110 01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:23,400 Speaker 1: afternoon after sound check, and gradually got together some songs. 1111 01:15:23,439 --> 01:15:26,960 Speaker 1: And it was interesting because because you're on the road, 1112 01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:31,000 Speaker 1: it's all very exciting, and you're playing to these massive 1113 01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:36,799 Speaker 1: audiences and they're loving it, you know, so it's wonderful feeling, 1114 01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:40,599 Speaker 1: and so you can draw on that energy and put 1115 01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:45,000 Speaker 1: that into the music because often, you know, I found 1116 01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:49,559 Speaker 1: sometimes in the past when you're when you're writing a 1117 01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:55,120 Speaker 1: new records, you're at home, adrenaline is not flowing you 1118 01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:59,080 Speaker 1: can be quite introspective and the music won't really be 1119 01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:02,680 Speaker 1: really event to going out there, you know, being extravert. 1120 01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:06,040 Speaker 1: So writing on the road, although it was very hard 1121 01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:11,439 Speaker 1: to do because you have to be disciplined about it. Um, 1122 01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:16,400 Speaker 1: it was. It was really grabbing some energy from those 1123 01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:18,120 Speaker 1: from those gigs in the evening, you know. It was 1124 01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:21,240 Speaker 1: really amazing. And then I used to make cassettes and 1125 01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:23,400 Speaker 1: then going on a tour bus and play it to 1126 01:16:23,439 --> 01:16:25,200 Speaker 1: the band and say what do you think you know, 1127 01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:29,559 Speaker 1: and like to try out in front of my uh 1128 01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:33,679 Speaker 1: my band. So yeah, I managed to do it somehow, 1129 01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:40,280 Speaker 1: and you know, despite all those all those difficulties and it, um, 1130 01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:44,559 Speaker 1: you know, it turned out okay. So you do the 1131 01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:48,240 Speaker 1: second record also successful. How do you end up leaving 1132 01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:55,599 Speaker 1: uh Rupert and end up going with a Reef? Yeah? Well, 1133 01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:01,160 Speaker 1: you know, I mean I were going to be completely 1134 01:17:01,200 --> 01:17:06,799 Speaker 1: honest about this because you know, looking back, I thought 1135 01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:12,960 Speaker 1: for a start, I should have should have had a 1136 01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:17,880 Speaker 1: conversation with Rupert and Steve about this because we'd had 1137 01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:22,519 Speaker 1: just massive success with this, you know, with the with 1138 01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:27,040 Speaker 1: the first two albums, and why would you want to 1139 01:17:27,080 --> 01:17:29,439 Speaker 1: go you know, we we'd loved each other, you know, 1140 01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:31,679 Speaker 1: we had a great time making the records. Why would 1141 01:17:31,680 --> 01:17:37,080 Speaker 1: you want to go with another producer? But I suppose 1142 01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:43,120 Speaker 1: for me it was like the record company had suggested 1143 01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:46,839 Speaker 1: are Iff and he had just worked with Skritty Polity, 1144 01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:51,160 Speaker 1: who one of one of my absolute favorite bands of 1145 01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:56,080 Speaker 1: that era. I just absolutely loved what what they did, 1146 01:17:56,120 --> 01:18:02,200 Speaker 1: and I loved what, you know, the the unbelievable legend 1147 01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:09,120 Speaker 1: you know that Aeric Mardin was and his was um 1148 01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:11,320 Speaker 1: you know, had brought to their music. You know, it's 1149 01:18:11,400 --> 01:18:16,720 Speaker 1: like I'm from that, I'm from that place. So it 1150 01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:22,280 Speaker 1: was so tempting to to to to get have a 1151 01:18:22,280 --> 01:18:25,200 Speaker 1: new experience, you know, and I'm a young man. I 1152 01:18:25,240 --> 01:18:28,160 Speaker 1: want to learn as much as I can from people, 1153 01:18:28,320 --> 01:18:33,960 Speaker 1: and so I got really really excited about that, and 1154 01:18:34,120 --> 01:18:36,760 Speaker 1: it was it was great working with Eric and he 1155 01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:41,760 Speaker 1: was wonderful. And my only tinge of regret was that 1156 01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:47,479 Speaker 1: I didn't give him more control of the help because 1157 01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:51,320 Speaker 1: I just must be I must be control free. Really, 1158 01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:57,320 Speaker 1: I just want to you know, it's just working with 1159 01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:00,559 Speaker 1: this man who's like got a lifetime of experience of 1160 01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:04,880 Speaker 1: making some of the greatest records ever made. Make sure 1161 01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:08,920 Speaker 1: that you give that person a chance to do his thing, 1162 01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:13,360 Speaker 1: you know, and I I think I could have done 1163 01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:16,400 Speaker 1: that more. But there we are. You know, you're a 1164 01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:20,680 Speaker 1: young person. What you do benefit of hindsight? And did 1165 01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:25,720 Speaker 1: it kill your relationship with Rupert? Oh? No, absolutely not, no, 1166 01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:33,599 Speaker 1: absolutely not. We we we we stayed absolute lifelong friends. 1167 01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:37,840 Speaker 1: I mean I was. I was with him two days 1168 01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:40,320 Speaker 1: before he passed away, you know, when he was on 1169 01:19:40,400 --> 01:19:44,800 Speaker 1: his on his deathbed and I was there and I 1170 01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:47,640 Speaker 1: was talking with him. Well he couldn't really hear me 1171 01:19:47,720 --> 01:19:52,320 Speaker 1: by then. But um, all through my life, Rupert has 1172 01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:56,639 Speaker 1: been there and he's been a supporter of mine. He's 1173 01:19:56,640 --> 01:20:03,759 Speaker 1: been executive producer, he's been year leader, and he's always 1174 01:20:03,800 --> 01:20:06,040 Speaker 1: been he was always it was always there for me. 1175 01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:12,720 Speaker 1: It didn't affect it at all. And what one incredible man. Okay, 1176 01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:15,120 Speaker 1: so no one is to blame. Is on the second 1177 01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:21,000 Speaker 1: album with Rupert, but the hid version is with Phil Collins. 1178 01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:27,800 Speaker 1: How did that come together? Yeah? Well, the original version 1179 01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:31,960 Speaker 1: on Dreaming to Action and it's quite stark, you know, 1180 01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:37,400 Speaker 1: It's got these really brutal drums, a bit of piano, 1181 01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:46,559 Speaker 1: and it's it's stark and I love it. I but 1182 01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:49,960 Speaker 1: I did think that the song, you know, I'm I'm 1183 01:20:50,040 --> 01:20:52,080 Speaker 1: I'm a radio guy. You know, as I was telling 1184 01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:55,479 Speaker 1: you from the beginning, lots of bands didn't want to 1185 01:20:55,479 --> 01:20:59,240 Speaker 1: be on the radio. I did the radio. You can 1186 01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:02,280 Speaker 1: listen to the radio anywhere. I mean, it's what I 1187 01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:05,439 Speaker 1: grew up with, you know. So I thought, we I'm 1188 01:21:05,479 --> 01:21:08,519 Speaker 1: sure we can do a version that could be played 1189 01:21:08,560 --> 01:21:12,479 Speaker 1: on the radio. And so we tried. We tried at 1190 01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:15,040 Speaker 1: the farm yard, you know, you know, we gave it 1191 01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:20,479 Speaker 1: another go and it didn't quite work out, and so 1192 01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:23,800 Speaker 1: I kept going with the idea. You know. It was 1193 01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:28,120 Speaker 1: instigated by me um and I think I even played 1194 01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:32,240 Speaker 1: it to Bob Krasnow in his office once and I said, 1195 01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:35,760 Speaker 1: you know, because they he still had a piano in 1196 01:21:35,800 --> 01:21:39,080 Speaker 1: his in his in his office and I played in 1197 01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:42,160 Speaker 1: the song as I really think this could work at radio, 1198 01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:44,880 Speaker 1: and he said no, no, he said, you know, it's 1199 01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:49,080 Speaker 1: a it's a B side. Man. Um. I kept still 1200 01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:51,960 Speaker 1: kept believing in it. So I got to know Phil 1201 01:21:52,160 --> 01:21:56,880 Speaker 1: through doing Princess Trust things and charity stuff. Really got 1202 01:21:56,880 --> 01:21:59,920 Speaker 1: on well with him. We had a great time together. 1203 01:22:00,920 --> 01:22:05,479 Speaker 1: And so David approached him and I think the record 1204 01:22:05,479 --> 01:22:07,840 Speaker 1: company as well, to see if he would be up 1205 01:22:07,880 --> 01:22:11,400 Speaker 1: for it, and he loved the song, recognized what he 1206 01:22:11,439 --> 01:22:15,960 Speaker 1: could do with it, and we did it in two weekends. 1207 01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:20,519 Speaker 1: You know, I brought Afro Dizziac, my backing singers down 1208 01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:24,519 Speaker 1: to seeing I programmed up at two bar pattern for 1209 01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:27,679 Speaker 1: him to play drums too. I persuaded him to sing 1210 01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:31,720 Speaker 1: on it, um and it was just fun. It was 1211 01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:34,200 Speaker 1: really fun making it, you know, because it was so quick. 1212 01:22:34,720 --> 01:22:38,120 Speaker 1: It's just the piano part was done in one take. 1213 01:22:39,200 --> 01:22:44,640 Speaker 1: Um and yeah, it just just came together. It was brilliant, 1214 01:22:44,720 --> 01:22:50,439 Speaker 1: and you know, Radio really really liked it, so I 1215 01:22:50,479 --> 01:22:53,559 Speaker 1: did get I mean, the only thing I'd say is 1216 01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:58,719 Speaker 1: that as big as it as it was not, people 1217 01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:03,240 Speaker 1: don't know that it's me because it was quite different 1218 01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:07,960 Speaker 1: to everything else I've done. So but you know that's 1219 01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:11,040 Speaker 1: my job now is to connect that those two things together. 1220 01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:14,680 Speaker 1: What did Grass now say when you came back with 1221 01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:17,960 Speaker 1: the finished product, Well, you know, he's he's he was 1222 01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:21,400 Speaker 1: very he was very pleased. He was very pleased. I 1223 01:23:21,479 --> 01:23:23,559 Speaker 1: don't you know, yeah, oh yeah, I guess you were right. 1224 01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:30,000 Speaker 1: So then you end up producing yourself. M Is that 1225 01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:31,760 Speaker 1: because you're a control For you to say now I 1226 01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:35,880 Speaker 1: want to be in control, Well, you know it was. 1227 01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:38,200 Speaker 1: It was to do with you know, I built a 1228 01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:44,080 Speaker 1: studio at home. I've got young children now, so I 1229 01:23:44,160 --> 01:23:46,840 Speaker 1: didn't wanted to be at home more. You know, we 1230 01:23:46,920 --> 01:23:48,519 Speaker 1: used to take the kids when we when they were 1231 01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:52,120 Speaker 1: very little, on the road, but I wanted to be around. 1232 01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:54,840 Speaker 1: So I had studio and I had all the time 1233 01:23:54,880 --> 01:23:57,439 Speaker 1: in the world to, you know, to work on stuff. 1234 01:23:57,479 --> 01:24:03,720 Speaker 1: So yeah, so I felt confident that I could do that. 1235 01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:06,760 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if that was a bit misplaced. I 1236 01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:12,639 Speaker 1: think it's always good too to have someone else giving 1237 01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:17,760 Speaker 1: you another opinion and guiding you through. I think that's good. 1238 01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:22,760 Speaker 1: So I didn't really have that, so but you know, 1239 01:24:24,720 --> 01:24:28,559 Speaker 1: still did, okay, I think. So how did it end 1240 01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:34,200 Speaker 1: with you in the major label? Yeah? Well, yeah, I 1241 01:24:34,200 --> 01:24:37,559 Speaker 1: mean there was a five album deal come to the 1242 01:24:37,640 --> 01:24:40,080 Speaker 1: end of it, and I was kind of hopeful that 1243 01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:44,160 Speaker 1: they would want to continue with me because I absolutely 1244 01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:52,680 Speaker 1: felt that I tons more to to give, and no 1245 01:24:52,920 --> 01:24:56,479 Speaker 1: they didn't. They didn't want to, So I mean, in 1246 01:24:56,520 --> 01:24:58,960 Speaker 1: a way, it was you know, I was devastated at 1247 01:24:59,000 --> 01:25:01,479 Speaker 1: the time. I thought, this is the end. I'm finished. 1248 01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:04,599 Speaker 1: I won't ever make a record again. I will now 1249 01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:09,120 Speaker 1: drift into obscurity. And nobody will ever want to know 1250 01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:12,599 Speaker 1: about me again. I was very I was really depressed 1251 01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:16,960 Speaker 1: actually because it is what I I wanted to continue 1252 01:25:17,439 --> 01:25:19,080 Speaker 1: and I love the people that I was working with. 1253 01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:21,719 Speaker 1: It's not like I had a bad time with the label. 1254 01:25:23,160 --> 01:25:25,800 Speaker 1: These are people I really liked, and I know a 1255 01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:30,280 Speaker 1: lot of artists don't have that situation. But I had 1256 01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:32,800 Speaker 1: a great time. They were great for me, to me 1257 01:25:33,000 --> 01:25:37,760 Speaker 1: and for me. Um. But it was good because six 1258 01:25:37,800 --> 01:25:40,479 Speaker 1: weeks of depressure and I thought, hang on a minute, 1259 01:25:40,520 --> 01:25:41,840 Speaker 1: this is the best thing has ever happened to me. 1260 01:25:41,880 --> 01:25:45,639 Speaker 1: I can now become an independent artist because the tools 1261 01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:49,760 Speaker 1: were starting to become available to us. The internet was developing. 1262 01:25:49,800 --> 01:25:54,200 Speaker 1: You could contact people yourself. Um, I booked a tour, 1263 01:25:55,080 --> 01:26:00,800 Speaker 1: I made an album really quickly, got it out, made artwork. Boom. 1264 01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:03,519 Speaker 1: You know, I was off and it was a whole 1265 01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:09,759 Speaker 1: new adventure where you could be I say, in control, 1266 01:26:09,760 --> 01:26:12,200 Speaker 1: because you're never really in control of everything, but you 1267 01:26:12,840 --> 01:26:16,000 Speaker 1: can lead the direction of your career in your life. 1268 01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:19,800 Speaker 1: What about the lack of reallyal success and reached that 1269 01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:24,080 Speaker 1: a major label can give you? Yeah, yeah, that's right. 1270 01:26:24,080 --> 01:26:25,720 Speaker 1: Well I knew that. I had to say, you know, 1271 01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:30,880 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have that, UM, And it was a new era. 1272 01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:34,200 Speaker 1: You know, I was now in dialogue with my fans, 1273 01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:38,840 Speaker 1: and it was it was really about you know, really 1274 01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:45,120 Speaker 1: looking after them, UM, new new albums, new material, you know, 1275 01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:50,200 Speaker 1: great touring, UM. And it was about and I think, 1276 01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:53,080 Speaker 1: you know, there really is a place for that. I think, 1277 01:26:53,479 --> 01:26:56,160 Speaker 1: you know, when you're starting your career, it's really absolutely 1278 01:26:56,160 --> 01:26:59,680 Speaker 1: brilliant to have a major label firing on all cylinders 1279 01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:03,000 Speaker 1: for you. But then when you you know, when you 1280 01:27:03,040 --> 01:27:05,599 Speaker 1: want to really sort of follow your own course and 1281 01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:09,240 Speaker 1: not be in that game anymore, it's great to be 1282 01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:15,479 Speaker 1: independent and really sort of think about that relationship with 1283 01:27:15,520 --> 01:27:19,679 Speaker 1: the fans. As you're growing up and getting older, they 1284 01:27:19,680 --> 01:27:22,160 Speaker 1: will be to what's going to be relevant to them. 1285 01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:26,840 Speaker 1: You're not going to be writing pop songs for you know, 1286 01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:29,920 Speaker 1: for pop radio now you're you're you're going to be 1287 01:27:29,960 --> 01:27:33,920 Speaker 1: writing songs for people who are having kids and going 1288 01:27:33,960 --> 01:27:40,280 Speaker 1: through breakups and struggling with you know, with money and 1289 01:27:40,320 --> 01:27:43,920 Speaker 1: stuff and and and problems and that everything that comes 1290 01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:49,960 Speaker 1: with growing older. So that's not really material for you know, 1291 01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:56,439 Speaker 1: for young people and stuff. So it really fitted for me, UM. 1292 01:27:56,479 --> 01:27:58,920 Speaker 1: And I've been you know, I've been. I've been. I've 1293 01:27:58,920 --> 01:28:01,920 Speaker 1: been really happy to Uh how did you end up 1294 01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:09,080 Speaker 1: in the restaurant business, Well, you know, I've been. I've 1295 01:28:09,120 --> 01:28:12,000 Speaker 1: been a vegetarian since I was twenty one, so that 1296 01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:16,240 Speaker 1: was that's a big thing for me. Um, there's never 1297 01:28:16,320 --> 01:28:23,439 Speaker 1: anywhere to eat. So David, my manager, David Stuffs, and 1298 01:28:23,479 --> 01:28:28,799 Speaker 1: I decided that we would open a restaurant and crazy 1299 01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:32,000 Speaker 1: mad idea, I mean, and in New York as well, 1300 01:28:32,080 --> 01:28:37,160 Speaker 1: where we don't live, you know. Um. So we had 1301 01:28:37,200 --> 01:28:40,280 Speaker 1: this idea that we would get amazing chefs, the menu 1302 01:28:40,320 --> 01:28:44,000 Speaker 1: would be so exciting that it didn't matter if you're 1303 01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:47,120 Speaker 1: a vegetarian or not. You would love the food. And 1304 01:28:47,160 --> 01:28:50,880 Speaker 1: there's a bar there, there's a jukebox, it's great art 1305 01:28:50,920 --> 01:28:55,479 Speaker 1: on the walls and all those things. We did, you know, 1306 01:28:55,600 --> 01:28:57,559 Speaker 1: and it and it, and when it worked, we had 1307 01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:05,400 Speaker 1: fantastic people coming down. Lou Read, Madonna, Michael J. Fox, 1308 01:29:05,920 --> 01:29:08,840 Speaker 1: the British bands were coming over from the UK to 1309 01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:13,800 Speaker 1: play in New York would come down and we fulfilled 1310 01:29:13,800 --> 01:29:16,719 Speaker 1: all all that stuff. But we we we did lose 1311 01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:20,719 Speaker 1: a lot of money. Um, and the place almost burnt 1312 01:29:20,760 --> 01:29:23,840 Speaker 1: down to the ground as well. So I think it 1313 01:29:23,880 --> 01:29:26,639 Speaker 1: was two and a half years. It lasted and and 1314 01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:30,799 Speaker 1: we had to finally close. But I like to think 1315 01:29:30,920 --> 01:29:36,680 Speaker 1: that it helped the cause of more vegetarian places or 1316 01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:42,200 Speaker 1: vegetarian food being available, you know, after that, and that 1317 01:29:42,280 --> 01:29:45,880 Speaker 1: we sort of maybe helped us to push that idea 1318 01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:49,320 Speaker 1: forward with people that it could work, you know, and 1319 01:29:49,640 --> 01:29:57,040 Speaker 1: it could be great, fantastic, yummy food. Yeah. So yeah, 1320 01:29:59,120 --> 01:30:03,120 Speaker 1: I don't regret it, um, even though it probably would 1321 01:30:03,120 --> 01:30:07,720 Speaker 1: have been a better idea to buy an apartment in 1322 01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:14,360 Speaker 1: New York. Okay, have you consistently It's hard to tell 1323 01:30:14,439 --> 01:30:18,839 Speaker 1: from the outside, have you consistently played music, made music, 1324 01:30:18,920 --> 01:30:22,000 Speaker 1: gone on the road or once we hit the nineties 1325 01:30:22,040 --> 01:30:25,120 Speaker 1: and the turn of the century, where's were there a 1326 01:30:25,120 --> 01:30:27,360 Speaker 1: few years or when you stepped away and said, lean, 1327 01:30:27,400 --> 01:30:32,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do something different. Now get perspective. Mm Um, 1328 01:30:33,040 --> 01:30:36,800 Speaker 1: there was There was definitely a time, um, and I 1329 01:30:36,840 --> 01:30:39,240 Speaker 1: think you're right, you know, during the early nineties where 1330 01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:44,479 Speaker 1: I just felt nobody really wanted to know at all 1331 01:30:44,520 --> 01:30:49,640 Speaker 1: about me and my music, and probably some of my 1332 01:30:49,720 --> 01:30:53,920 Speaker 1: contemporaries as well would be in the same position, um. 1333 01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:59,439 Speaker 1: And the eighties were so poorly regarded in high fluting 1334 01:30:59,600 --> 01:31:03,760 Speaker 1: so or as as a you know, it's not a 1335 01:31:03,840 --> 01:31:09,400 Speaker 1: particularly great decade of music, but which obviously I I 1336 01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:13,320 Speaker 1: disagreed with, but it was the sort of common feeling 1337 01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:18,800 Speaker 1: UM and you know, it was it was a time 1338 01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:24,080 Speaker 1: of reassessing everything and I thought, you know, I didn't 1339 01:31:24,080 --> 01:31:27,200 Speaker 1: do so many shows. I you know, nobody wanted to 1340 01:31:27,240 --> 01:31:34,040 Speaker 1: put you on, and you know, yeah, it was, it was, 1341 01:31:34,160 --> 01:31:37,760 Speaker 1: it was. It was a bump in the road absolutely, UM. 1342 01:31:39,200 --> 01:31:42,320 Speaker 1: So that I think he was to you know, go 1343 01:31:42,439 --> 01:31:49,120 Speaker 1: back to my roots, which I went. My roots were electronic, 1344 01:31:49,600 --> 01:31:54,160 Speaker 1: you know, generated music, and so we did this crazy 1345 01:31:55,439 --> 01:31:59,680 Speaker 1: UM tour where we played the sort of almost like 1346 01:32:00,240 --> 01:32:08,120 Speaker 1: big pubs around the UK, and we did it all electronically. 1347 01:32:09,439 --> 01:32:12,880 Speaker 1: It was different every night. We had lots of UM 1348 01:32:13,120 --> 01:32:17,040 Speaker 1: sampling going on, and that Robbie was out on the 1349 01:32:17,080 --> 01:32:20,000 Speaker 1: mixing desk is actually in the band now, but he 1350 01:32:20,120 --> 01:32:22,120 Speaker 1: was out on the mixing desk doing all kinds of 1351 01:32:22,120 --> 01:32:26,679 Speaker 1: sound manipulation and so a lot of experimentation was going 1352 01:32:26,720 --> 01:32:33,240 Speaker 1: on and we used to record it and make c 1353 01:32:33,479 --> 01:32:36,640 Speaker 1: d s on the premises that night to sell to 1354 01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:41,280 Speaker 1: the people. So they actually got CD that with artwork 1355 01:32:41,360 --> 01:32:45,920 Speaker 1: generated from the gig before they left the venue. We 1356 01:32:45,960 --> 01:32:49,559 Speaker 1: couldn't always fulfill all the orders, so we had to 1357 01:32:49,560 --> 01:32:53,240 Speaker 1: send them on. But we may be one of the 1358 01:32:53,280 --> 01:32:55,080 Speaker 1: first people to do that because we were doing it 1359 01:32:55,080 --> 01:32:57,960 Speaker 1: with like conventional CD burners. We weren't doing it with 1360 01:32:58,040 --> 01:33:04,200 Speaker 1: industrial levels stuff, you know. Um, And so it was 1361 01:33:04,600 --> 01:33:07,240 Speaker 1: just thinking, you know then, and really that's the roots 1362 01:33:07,280 --> 01:33:11,680 Speaker 1: of where I've got back to today, was that, Um, 1363 01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:18,400 Speaker 1: we just kept incrementally making things better and developing a 1364 01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:23,240 Speaker 1: kind of hybrid between electronic music and great playing. And 1365 01:33:23,280 --> 01:33:27,439 Speaker 1: I think that's where, you know, where we've got to now. 1366 01:33:27,720 --> 01:33:32,599 Speaker 1: But it was it's sort of reinventing all that stuff. So, yeah, 1367 01:33:32,640 --> 01:33:34,400 Speaker 1: it was it was it was a it was a 1368 01:33:36,439 --> 01:33:39,720 Speaker 1: you know not it was a weird time for us 1369 01:33:39,760 --> 01:33:43,759 Speaker 1: during the the nineties, but you know, it gradually started 1370 01:33:43,800 --> 01:33:54,559 Speaker 1: to come good. You speak about the denigration of the Elias. 1371 01:33:55,240 --> 01:34:00,439 Speaker 1: Although I'm a big fan, you've gotten a good number 1372 01:34:00,479 --> 01:34:03,559 Speaker 1: of negative reviews. Now, that was a different era where 1373 01:34:03,640 --> 01:34:07,240 Speaker 1: people now it doesn't even apply guys, you know, without 1374 01:34:07,240 --> 01:34:10,479 Speaker 1: a date and skinny jeans judging everything. But how did 1375 01:34:11,200 --> 01:34:17,639 Speaker 1: but how did you handle that? Oh? I didn't handle 1376 01:34:17,680 --> 01:34:20,760 Speaker 1: it very well. At first. I realized I mustn't read 1377 01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:24,640 Speaker 1: it because it was poisoning me, you know, because I 1378 01:34:24,680 --> 01:34:31,000 Speaker 1: had so much abuse. Really it was um. You know, 1379 01:34:31,120 --> 01:34:35,120 Speaker 1: the bit that hurt most was that I was manufactured 1380 01:34:36,560 --> 01:34:41,240 Speaker 1: pop star and it couldn't have been further from the truth. 1381 01:34:41,880 --> 01:34:46,360 Speaker 1: You know. It was a totally grassroots lead thing. You know. 1382 01:34:46,479 --> 01:34:50,640 Speaker 1: I I started playing in the most humblest places and 1383 01:34:50,720 --> 01:34:54,559 Speaker 1: build a following um that wanted to follow me around 1384 01:34:54,680 --> 01:34:58,080 Speaker 1: around the country. And I was doing something that nobody 1385 01:34:58,080 --> 01:35:03,759 Speaker 1: had done before. Yeah, and uh so it was hurtful. 1386 01:35:04,040 --> 01:35:07,360 Speaker 1: Rolling Stone said, Howard Jones doesn't need to turn up 1387 01:35:07,400 --> 01:35:09,920 Speaker 1: to his shows, just sends the gear and his roadie 1388 01:35:10,000 --> 01:35:15,000 Speaker 1: presses the button. You know. The the level of kind 1389 01:35:15,000 --> 01:35:19,200 Speaker 1: of ignorance about what we were doing was like gross. 1390 01:35:19,240 --> 01:35:22,439 Speaker 1: But and then there was this whole thing about anything 1391 01:35:22,720 --> 01:35:27,320 Speaker 1: that was involving synthesizers was had no soul and it 1392 01:35:27,439 --> 01:35:32,920 Speaker 1: was soul less music. Um, it was mechanical. And you know, 1393 01:35:33,040 --> 01:35:38,280 Speaker 1: as I absolutely fight that I had, the Musicians Union 1394 01:35:38,600 --> 01:35:43,120 Speaker 1: wanted to get rid of me, um, to ban me 1395 01:35:43,160 --> 01:35:45,599 Speaker 1: from being in the Musicians Union because they said I 1396 01:35:45,640 --> 01:35:49,800 Speaker 1: was taking work away from musicians. It was like every 1397 01:35:49,840 --> 01:35:53,559 Speaker 1: front you're being attacked. And then at the same time, 1398 01:35:55,080 --> 01:35:57,519 Speaker 1: the fans and people who loved the music were just 1399 01:35:57,840 --> 01:36:01,639 Speaker 1: you know, loving it. And I used to get really 1400 01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:05,600 Speaker 1: annoyed that people would right off the eighties as a 1401 01:36:05,800 --> 01:36:10,360 Speaker 1: you know, uh, as a as a terrible decade for music. 1402 01:36:10,920 --> 01:36:13,599 Speaker 1: But I used to say, well, hang on a minute, 1403 01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:16,559 Speaker 1: aren't you writing off a whole generation of people at 1404 01:36:16,600 --> 01:36:21,200 Speaker 1: the same time. It's like that actually loved that music. 1405 01:36:21,240 --> 01:36:24,280 Speaker 1: Of course, you know, things have changed now and I think, 1406 01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:29,320 Speaker 1: you know, it has become recognized as as yeah, great, 1407 01:36:29,400 --> 01:36:33,360 Speaker 1: it's a great exciting time for for music and very 1408 01:36:33,400 --> 01:36:37,840 Speaker 1: diverse as well, and so that's great, But but you know, 1409 01:36:37,960 --> 01:36:41,040 Speaker 1: we did have to go through that period of yeah, 1410 01:36:41,160 --> 01:36:43,519 Speaker 1: bumps in the road. Yeah, there's it's part of life 1411 01:36:43,560 --> 01:36:47,840 Speaker 1: in it. So how did you meet Jeanne and what 1412 01:36:48,040 --> 01:36:56,559 Speaker 1: made it sustain? Okay, so, jan we've been together for 1413 01:36:56,920 --> 01:36:59,559 Speaker 1: I don't know, fourty five years or something like that. 1414 01:37:03,720 --> 01:37:07,720 Speaker 1: I was best friends with her brother and he was 1415 01:37:07,760 --> 01:37:10,200 Speaker 1: the one who enabled me to go to the Isle 1416 01:37:10,200 --> 01:37:15,400 Speaker 1: of Wight Festival in always be grateful to him for that. 1417 01:37:16,160 --> 01:37:19,400 Speaker 1: My parents wouldn't wouldn't have let me go unless he 1418 01:37:19,439 --> 01:37:28,160 Speaker 1: had been there. So his young sister, jan Um I 1419 01:37:28,240 --> 01:37:32,680 Speaker 1: got to meet through him, and she wanted to have 1420 01:37:32,720 --> 01:37:35,479 Speaker 1: piano lessons, and so I taught her to play the 1421 01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:38,720 Speaker 1: piano and she actually got to grade five, which is 1422 01:37:38,840 --> 01:37:44,919 Speaker 1: you know, she's quite good really, and um, so obviously 1423 01:37:44,920 --> 01:37:48,880 Speaker 1: we weren't going out or anything at that time. But 1424 01:37:49,000 --> 01:37:52,360 Speaker 1: then I went to music college, came back, she went 1425 01:37:52,400 --> 01:37:55,360 Speaker 1: to college, and then we we met up and that 1426 01:37:55,439 --> 01:38:00,000 Speaker 1: was it. We we we moved out into our own 1427 01:38:00,280 --> 01:38:05,599 Speaker 1: bedsit places, one room room and built our lives you know, 1428 01:38:06,560 --> 01:38:10,000 Speaker 1: from there, from nothing. Really it was it's a great 1429 01:38:11,680 --> 01:38:14,080 Speaker 1: I'm very proud of it. Really, you know, we literally 1430 01:38:14,080 --> 01:38:21,400 Speaker 1: had nothing and we just at a great time. You know. Um, 1431 01:38:21,880 --> 01:38:27,040 Speaker 1: we we've always had each other as support. And you know, 1432 01:38:27,160 --> 01:38:31,200 Speaker 1: I'm I am an artist, and I am subject to 1433 01:38:31,320 --> 01:38:37,360 Speaker 1: the you know, the you know, the criticisms and the 1434 01:38:37,640 --> 01:38:40,160 Speaker 1: and the ups and downs that you get when you 1435 01:38:40,160 --> 01:38:42,519 Speaker 1: stick your head above the parapet and you say, oh, 1436 01:38:42,760 --> 01:38:45,920 Speaker 1: listen to my music, you know, and obviously there's going 1437 01:38:45,960 --> 01:38:48,880 Speaker 1: to be people that I don't like you doing that. 1438 01:38:48,960 --> 01:38:54,120 Speaker 1: And and so having somebody like jan who always grounds 1439 01:38:54,120 --> 01:38:59,280 Speaker 1: me and reminds me of what's real has been like 1440 01:38:59,479 --> 01:39:02,240 Speaker 1: it's been the joy of my life. You know, whatever 1441 01:39:02,320 --> 01:39:07,639 Speaker 1: may be going on around I that the real joy 1442 01:39:08,000 --> 01:39:14,040 Speaker 1: has become has come from our our relationship. Okay, you 1443 01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:17,599 Speaker 1: also played Live Aid, which was such a big deal 1444 01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:22,320 Speaker 1: at the time, but it has become absolutely legendary, iconic 1445 01:39:22,360 --> 01:39:25,439 Speaker 1: on the level of the original Woodstock. How did you 1446 01:39:25,640 --> 01:39:30,439 Speaker 1: end up being on the show and what was your experience. Well, 1447 01:39:31,680 --> 01:39:34,880 Speaker 1: I missed out on being on the single do they 1448 01:39:34,880 --> 01:39:38,639 Speaker 1: know It's Christmas? Feed the World? And I really felt 1449 01:39:38,680 --> 01:39:40,800 Speaker 1: that I should have been part of that. I sort 1450 01:39:40,840 --> 01:39:44,880 Speaker 1: of raise my hand and said, I need to be 1451 01:39:44,920 --> 01:39:46,639 Speaker 1: on this. I really want to be on this. It's 1452 01:39:46,640 --> 01:39:52,600 Speaker 1: such a great thing. I missed out. So when I 1453 01:39:52,680 --> 01:39:55,320 Speaker 1: heard about Live Aid, I said to David, you know, 1454 01:39:55,560 --> 01:39:58,800 Speaker 1: we have to get in touch with Geldof and let's 1455 01:39:58,800 --> 01:40:02,800 Speaker 1: say that I will do anything to be part of 1456 01:40:02,800 --> 01:40:06,200 Speaker 1: this because it is such a great thing to be doing. 1457 01:40:06,400 --> 01:40:09,240 Speaker 1: You know, I'm going to save lives with this. It's 1458 01:40:09,240 --> 01:40:11,880 Speaker 1: gonna it's gonna be brilliant, and I want to be 1459 01:40:12,000 --> 01:40:15,000 Speaker 1: part of it. I want to throw my weight behind it. 1460 01:40:15,680 --> 01:40:18,960 Speaker 1: And Geldof, you know, it's very pragmatic, he said, you know, 1461 01:40:19,000 --> 01:40:23,000 Speaker 1: you you you you've to be on it. You've had 1462 01:40:23,080 --> 01:40:26,439 Speaker 1: to sell a million albums in the last six months, 1463 01:40:26,600 --> 01:40:31,360 Speaker 1: and I at that time in my career. That's that was. Yes, 1464 01:40:31,479 --> 01:40:34,800 Speaker 1: so we we we had shows on the on the 1465 01:40:34,800 --> 01:40:37,120 Speaker 1: west coast of the of the U S. I flew 1466 01:40:37,200 --> 01:40:41,759 Speaker 1: back to London with Afro dizzyact, my three backing singers, 1467 01:40:41,920 --> 01:40:46,519 Speaker 1: and yeah, it was, it was. It was just such. 1468 01:40:46,880 --> 01:40:50,920 Speaker 1: I met, I met Diana Um, I met David Bowie. 1469 01:40:51,520 --> 01:40:54,880 Speaker 1: I hung out with McCartney and Linda McCartney. Linda took 1470 01:40:54,880 --> 01:40:58,439 Speaker 1: a picture of me and Paul. I got to do 1471 01:40:58,600 --> 01:41:03,760 Speaker 1: Hide and Seek, my favorite on. I mean, there's so 1472 01:41:03,880 --> 01:41:08,040 Speaker 1: many things that happened to me that day. It was. 1473 01:41:08,080 --> 01:41:10,559 Speaker 1: It was. I can remember all of them, and it 1474 01:41:10,680 --> 01:41:14,280 Speaker 1: was just brilliant. Flying in the helicopter, a copter with 1475 01:41:14,360 --> 01:41:19,439 Speaker 1: members the Queen Um, David Bowie, knowing who I was 1476 01:41:19,720 --> 01:41:23,400 Speaker 1: and knowing that I was doing pretty well in America, 1477 01:41:24,960 --> 01:41:33,640 Speaker 1: performing outside a cappella with with the girls appetusiac Um 1478 01:41:33,840 --> 01:41:36,479 Speaker 1: to two people, one of them was towns End and 1479 01:41:36,520 --> 01:41:39,720 Speaker 1: one of them was David Bowie. I mean, all these 1480 01:41:39,760 --> 01:41:44,400 Speaker 1: stories that I these people that I thought I would 1481 01:41:44,400 --> 01:41:46,479 Speaker 1: never meet. I mean, who was the first band I 1482 01:41:46,520 --> 01:41:51,479 Speaker 1: ever saw when I um in Canada going to a 1483 01:41:51,520 --> 01:41:57,240 Speaker 1: proper concert and you know, having towns End standing in 1484 01:41:57,280 --> 01:42:01,720 Speaker 1: front of you listening to your music. Was that's it's 1485 01:42:01,760 --> 01:42:05,000 Speaker 1: just great? I don't know it was it was I felt. 1486 01:42:05,040 --> 01:42:08,760 Speaker 1: I feel really privileged that I was a part of it. 1487 01:42:09,120 --> 01:42:13,400 Speaker 1: And with regard to feed the world, do they know 1488 01:42:13,479 --> 01:42:17,320 Speaker 1: it's Christmas? I invited Midsyear to tour with us this 1489 01:42:17,439 --> 01:42:21,040 Speaker 1: summer and we were trying to work out what song 1490 01:42:21,080 --> 01:42:23,120 Speaker 1: we should do together, and I said, can we do 1491 01:42:23,240 --> 01:42:25,720 Speaker 1: you know, feed the World? Because he hardly ever does it? 1492 01:42:26,360 --> 01:42:29,240 Speaker 1: You know, he wrote that with with Geldorf, of course, 1493 01:42:30,160 --> 01:42:32,280 Speaker 1: and so I got to do it. I got to 1494 01:42:32,280 --> 01:42:34,519 Speaker 1: sing all the parts I I. You know, if you 1495 01:42:34,640 --> 01:42:39,400 Speaker 1: wait long enough, all your dreams have come true. Right. Well, 1496 01:42:39,439 --> 01:42:41,800 Speaker 1: I hope that's true. One of my dreams will be 1497 01:42:41,840 --> 01:42:45,240 Speaker 1: able to talk to people like you bridge that gap. 1498 01:42:45,520 --> 01:42:47,400 Speaker 1: How did I want to thank you so much for 1499 01:42:47,439 --> 01:42:51,559 Speaker 1: taking the time to talk to me, Well, thank you, 1500 01:42:51,760 --> 01:42:55,320 Speaker 1: Bob the legend that you are for for doing this 1501 01:42:55,520 --> 01:42:59,360 Speaker 1: interview with me. I really really appreciate it. And it's 1502 01:42:59,439 --> 01:43:01,840 Speaker 1: a love to do an in depth thing like this. 1503 01:43:01,960 --> 01:43:05,680 Speaker 1: I've really enjoyed your your podcast with Darryl Hall. I 1504 01:43:06,120 --> 01:43:09,240 Speaker 1: learned so much from that. I learned so much. It's 1505 01:43:09,320 --> 01:43:12,559 Speaker 1: so it was very inspiring, so thank you for having 1506 01:43:12,560 --> 01:43:17,559 Speaker 1: me absolutely until next time. This is Bob left, set 1507 01:43:39,640 --> 01:43:39,680 Speaker 1: H