1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: What you hear in this podcast does not implicate any 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: individual or entity in any criminal activity. The views and 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: opinions are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast. 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: In January of this year, I made my way to 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: the courthouse in Ginger. It had been almost exactly a 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: full year since the case against Renee was filed and 7 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: we started looking into it. The courthouse was full of 8 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: journalists from the States, Germany, the Netherlands, Ireland, all waiting 9 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: for news. The plaintiffs were also here. Gimbo Zubda, the 10 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: mother of Tlali, was in the courtyard speaking with her lawyers, 11 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: and Kakai Rose, the other mother in the case, was 12 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: sitting in a corner by herself. I waved hello and 13 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: she gave me a smile. I had met Kakai a 14 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: couple of times by then. In the beginning, she was 15 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: shy and didn't open up very easy way, but over 16 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: the course of that year she became a bit more 17 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: friendly with me. We didn't speak the same language, but 18 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: she always waved and greeted me when she saw me, 19 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 1: asked me how I was doing that day. No one 20 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: was interpreting for her, but she seemed glad to be there, 21 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: to just be present. Sitting on a wooden bench outside 22 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,839 Speaker 1: the courtroom, I couldn't help but think about the first 23 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: time I was here, about the energy that Kelsey and 24 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: Olivia brought with them into this courthouse when they joined 25 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: the lawyers who were filing a civil suit against Renee 26 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: and serving his children back in twenty nine. So this 27 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: is what I want to see right now. For me, 28 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: this is so important, you know, it will help me 29 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: more forward. This is historical. It's going down the books 30 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: of history in my country, in Uganda and the world 31 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: as well, that this is the first time that someone 32 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: is looking into work that is done by a white person. 33 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: More feels that they're helping so much, like we compass 34 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: of Africa and we're sacrificing. To Livia, I just wanted 35 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: to show the wall that it's not sacrifice. She was 36 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: not doing us any sacrifice, but she was just humming 37 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: us like she was destroying our society. A lot had 38 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: changed since those early days when I used to think 39 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: that No Waite Saviors was our story. It had gotten 40 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: so much bigger. It was about a whole system of 41 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: international aid and injustice, the trauma of people affected by it, 42 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: and the moral dilemma of doing the right thing. Renee 43 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: and no White Saviors began to seem like small characters 44 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: in a much larger saga. Eventually we made our way 45 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: into the courtroom. After an hour of hearing news on 46 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: other local cases, the judge finally mentioned Renee's case in 47 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: association with iHeart Media, I'm ROGI Gola, I'm Hee make Con, 48 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: I'm Malcolm Burnley and this is the missionary Episode eight. 49 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: What's left? Media interest in Renee Bach and serving his 50 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: children has ebbed and flowed throughout the past year. One 51 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: of the only things I found to be consistent in 52 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: the story was the lawyer representing the women in the case. 53 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: Her name is Prima qua Gala. She runs the Women's 54 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: pro bono initiative in Uganda, and she was one of 55 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: the very first people I interviewed for this story last year. 56 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: Even then, she seemed pretty confident about the case she 57 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: had in hand. Perhaps every lawyer feels that way, but 58 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: Prima is one of the few health rights lawyers in Uganda, 59 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: and she had taken people bigger than Renee to court, 60 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: even litigated against the Ugandan government. So Prima had guts 61 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: and experience. I thought it was crazy, according to much 62 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: doing something like that taking place in our country, especially 63 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: I mean from a white person. We look at white 64 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: people as very good people. They have very good intentions 65 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: for us. So when someone told me that, I said, 66 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: oh my god. I have been doing cases in the 67 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: health sector for almost tamyas now I had never come 68 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: across anything like that. By early two thousand nineteen, Prima 69 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: had the testimonies of these two women. She also had 70 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 1: clear evidence that serving his children had been an unlicensed 71 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: health facility and was still providing advanced medicine to children 72 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 1: like tolal A. That alone is illegal in Uganda, as 73 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: we've said, in the same way that it is in 74 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: the US, where it's a felony. Keep in mind, medical 75 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:51,799 Speaker 1: malpractice and fraud isn't a uniquely Ugandan problem. Imagine finding 76 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: out your doctor didn't have a license to practice. Like 77 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: so many other fake health care workers in Colorado, this 78 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: one is also accused of tending to be someone she's 79 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: not to treat some of our state's most vulnerable people. 80 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: Police say they got an anonymous tip that Golden was 81 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: practicing as a medical doctor but with no license. In 82 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: North Carolina, state regulators are letting dozens of these impostors 83 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: go unlicensed and unpunished. The system is flawed. She's able 84 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 1: to slip through these cracks like this over and over again. 85 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: Over the past year. I would check in on and 86 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: off with Prima and her partner, Beatrice Kayaga to see 87 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: if they had made any other breakthroughs in this case, 88 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: found any new witnesses that we hadn't, or any outstanding 89 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: piece of evidence, maybe a video of Renee performing surgery 90 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: or something like that, And for the most part, there wasn't, 91 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: but they didn't need it. My cass is not really 92 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: about her character who she is. A case is very simple. 93 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: It's just that she was not licensed to do any 94 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: medical work. Her facility did not have license. Prima's focused, 95 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: simple and narrow approach to this case always struck me 96 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: because it was such a stark contrast from the full 97 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: range and volume of accusations against Renee that Renee had 98 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: stolen babies from hospitals, experimented on children, and bribed Ugandan officials. 99 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: An unlicensed facility seems like a rather minor, albeit still 100 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: illegal fact, and that's been the most frustrating and challenging 101 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: part of reporting this story. The more complex the accusations became, 102 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: the harder it was to be able to know factually 103 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 1: was it true or not, because they relied on conflicting 104 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: anecdotal evidence and interpretations of Renee's actions. I learned this 105 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:42,799 Speaker 1: as I went to track down more than a dozen 106 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: Ugandan health workers who had worked at serving his children, 107 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 1: as well as senior health officials. So I can see 108 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: why Prima kept her case so narrow to her. Those 109 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: other questions are besides the point her cases that you 110 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: gone and women like Kakai had a basic right for 111 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: themselves and their children to be treated at legitimate health 112 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: facilities within Uganda's health care system by licensed professionals, the 113 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: right to dignity for me to ask for what has 114 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: given my child, and you can't give me answers because 115 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: I don't deserve any. But you took my child away 116 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: with the promise that you're going to help them, but 117 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: then you can't give me feedback. That's in human, it's degrading. 118 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:43,239 Speaker 1: It's for years on end. She can't get any answers 119 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: until we by the case. She says Renee had violated 120 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: the rights of the most vulnerable women. Rights given are 121 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: Uganda's Constitution. Most of these women are illiterate. They've never 122 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: been to school, they can't speak a word but English. 123 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: They don't have jobs, they can't and even fifty dollars 124 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: in a year they can't. Someone who is vulnerable, very poor, 125 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: and is looking at her child dying, when someone tells 126 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: her that Rainie's hope and Rainy is doing this, they 127 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: go because they're looking for help. And then here's a 128 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: white person saying, oh, I'm going to give your food. 129 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you go to her home. There's a bed, 130 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: there is porridge, there is tea, you can use the bathroom, 131 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: you can wash your clothes. It seems like heaven to them. 132 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,239 Speaker 1: Wouldn't you gone and have gone that long without oversight? 133 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: They wouldn't last a year, not even five months. People 134 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: would say where are you getting that money? Who are you? 135 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: You know, even those illiterate women would ask are you 136 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: qualified to do this? They stand up to you and 137 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: ask that. But this is a white person that's intimate 138 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 1: dating already that you're white, and we assume that the 139 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: white people are educated people. In fact, in May two 140 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: thousand fifteen, only two months after serving his children, was 141 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 1: shut down. Health clinics in northern Uganda were shut down 142 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: for nearly the same reasons. Officials say the clinics at 143 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: the level of health center to are being operated by 144 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: underqualified people. The aim of the operation is to protect 145 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: the public from home. Those who are arrested will be 146 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: changed in court. Seven people were arrested and while serving 147 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: his children was shut down. Renee was never arrested, nor 148 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: were any members of her staff, and they were able 149 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: to reopen, albeit in a different district. Now, whether that 150 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: was due to pour oversight, bribes or genuine reform, we 151 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: still don't know. The wise in the house. In both 152 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: Uganda and in the US, people have gone to jail 153 00:09:55,679 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: for these violations or faced other repercussions were it's still 154 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: in Virginia. Oh. There is no such thing as running 155 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: away from the law in this world, especially in a 156 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: civil case. WHOA that can be enforced anywhere. It can 157 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: even be enforced on us soil. We just have to 158 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: forward the judgment to the authorities in the U s 159 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: and they'll get her. Prina also told me that whether 160 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: they win or lose the case, it will have still 161 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: made a difference. I see people are becoming more alive 162 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: to challenging the system. People are starting to say, no, 163 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:39,319 Speaker 1: we can't do better, start questioning the system and the services. 164 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: So it is through cases like this I like to say, 165 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: sometimes it's not that we want to win, but we 166 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: want to cause people to learn to question because maybe 167 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: I will lose. But next time a white person comes around, 168 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: they're going to think about the expenses they have to 169 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: to incur if someone came up with a suit against them, 170 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: because you would say, oh, you lost, No I did not. 171 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: Really has spent money defending herself, so she is aware 172 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: that she can't get away with what she's doing anymore. 173 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 1: So it's a stut. We always have to start from somewhere. 174 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 1: This story has tapped into a much bigger conversation about 175 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 1: the role of white people in Africa more broadly, a 176 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: discussion that Africans and black people have been having for decades. 177 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: In the past, the conversation was about colonizers, missionaries, imperialists. 178 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: These days it extends to white journalists, aid workers, humanitarians, activists, 179 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: and social entrepreneurs. Why do white journalists have certain privileges, 180 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: Why are white people called expats instead of immigrants, Why 181 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 1: do white aid workers have these six figure salaries? Well, 182 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: you've gone an experts get pennies on the dollar. Why 183 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: do white entrepreneurs get so much more venture capital compared 184 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: to local African startups. These are all questions that I 185 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: hear constantly, and Serving his Children and Renee were smack 186 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 1: in the middle of this conversation. But the question that 187 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 1: remains is what's next? Do white foreigners have a role 188 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: in contemporary Africa at all? Months into reporting this story, 189 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: I finally went to Serving his Children's current facility in 190 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: Chi Gondolo. Remember now, it's operating within a government facility, 191 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,959 Speaker 1: and from what we could tell, was operating by the books. 192 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: It's run by Ugandan health professionals, but is funded by 193 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: Serving his Children. Inside there's a small sign with the 194 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: logos of Serving His Children on one side and Uganda's 195 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: Ministry of Health on the other. The staff invited me 196 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: into the children's ward, so I took off my shoes 197 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: and entered. It looked like an ordinary clinic with child 198 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: sized hospital beds lining both sides of the room, cartoons 199 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: on the walls. But when I saw the children, I 200 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: was shocked. By then, I had passed through countless photos 201 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:23,559 Speaker 1: of emaciated, bloated and utterly sick children who had been 202 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: posted on Serving His Children's website over the years, or 203 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: on the blogs of other missionaries and volunteers. Standing in 204 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: that room, I was struck with such a strong sense 205 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: of deja vu. In the center, there were mothers sitting 206 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: on the floor with their babies whose skin was peeling 207 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: off due to infections related to severe malnutrition. The mothers 208 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,559 Speaker 1: were bathing their children in a brownish liquid that nurses 209 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: said was an iodine solution to help their skin heal. 210 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: The staff told me these mothers had come from far 211 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: off rural areas where severe malnutrition is still a problem 212 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: and access to affordable healthcare is still limited. I still 213 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: think back to that day a year later, after trying 214 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: to piece together the parts of this story to figure 215 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: out the facts. The clearest thing to me still is 216 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: that the problem of severe child malnutrition, this problem that 217 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: a young Renee thought she could end, that the Ugandan 218 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: government has been trying to tackle, is still a big problem. 219 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: The news attention for this story will eventually fade, and 220 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: the court case could settle, but there are still mothers 221 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: who are desperately looking for care and children who are 222 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: still suffering from severe malnutrition. So When I think back 223 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: to that day, I still wonder what will happen to 224 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: them m Back in the summer, I was shocked that 225 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: Renee ever spoke to me, But the truth is she 226 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: was never fully bought into this podcast. I figured early 227 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: on that the best way to keep her involved would 228 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: be to indulge her point of view, to make it 229 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: abundantly clear that part of my process was to see 230 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: her side of things. And I spent more than a 231 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: dozen hours talking with her, but each interaction felt like 232 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: meeting her all over again. The real Renee was walled off, unknowable. 233 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 1: There was always an emotional barrier. Sometimes it was a 234 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: hard time limit, a lawyer listening by phone, or the 235 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: over politeness of my questions trying not to offend her. 236 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: We went long gaps without speaking because Renee stopped participating 237 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: at multiple points. The closest I got to a breakthrough 238 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: was a few weeks before Christmas of last year. Are 239 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: good talking about well marked? It doesn't have these people 240 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: that are using. Renee invited me over for lunch and 241 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: what wound up being our last interview. Her place was small, 242 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: a converted garage on a friend's property, surrounded by woods 243 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: and farmland. When I entered, there was the aroma of 244 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: fresh bread in the kitchen above a space heater. In 245 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: the living room next to Renee's bed, there were a 246 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: few stockings and tinsel on the wall, and the rest 247 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: to the apartment was dedicated to the baby. The younger 248 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 1: of her two adopted daughters, less than two years old, 249 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 1: was awake when I got there. She was scrambling around 250 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 1: the place and smashing face first into a mirror, from 251 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: which she got up giggling to look at yourself, because 252 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 1: you're so cute. Renee left Uganda in October two thousand 253 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: eighteen to finalize her daughter's adoption. The court case against 254 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: her was filed three months later, and Renee hasn't returned since. 255 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: It's why there are almost no mementos in her house 256 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: from her entire time in Uganda, which is we're wondering, 257 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: is anything from Uganda or is it pretty much all 258 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 1: stuff you required names. My sister made that Eileen Chrism. 259 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: She's talking about a cow skull named Boris on her wall. 260 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: When her daughter took a nap, Renee, her mom and 261 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: I walked around outside for a bit. The property was 262 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: a hundred forty acres. The trails went back for miles, 263 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: but right next to Renee's apartment was a k barn. 264 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: It looked like a wedding venue with polished carriages inside, 265 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: just like the how she grew up in. There were 266 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: quotations inscribed throughout the property Psalm nine one. The heavens 267 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: declare the glory of God, the skies proclaimed the work 268 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: of his hands. And there are far better things ahead 269 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: than any we leave behind. C. S. Lewis from our 270 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: very first interview, Renee used famous quotes as a way 271 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: of grounding herself amidst all this controversy. There's a really 272 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: great quote on my brain now, but basically just talking 273 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 1: about like there are so many people that will just 274 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: sit and point fingers at people that are in the arena, 275 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: you know of blood, sweat and tears um, but like 276 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: who are they to really speak into that. She found 277 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 1: the quote later and texted it to me. It came 278 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: from Teddy Roosevelt. It is not the critic who counts, 279 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: not the man who points out how the strong man 280 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done 281 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 1: the better. The credit belongs to the man who is 282 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: actually in the arena. Whose face is mob Bob dustin 283 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: sweat and blood, who straws valiantly, who airs, who comes 284 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 1: short again and again, because there is no effort without 285 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: error and shortcoming. If he fails, at least fails while 286 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 1: daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with 287 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:57,400 Speaker 1: those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. 288 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: During the we published this, it was announced that the 289 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 1: Teddy Roosevelt statue outside the American Museum of Natural History 290 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 1: would be removed expressly because of its racist depiction of 291 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: black and indigenous people. Under the President's subjugation, he was 292 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: a cheerleader for colonization, which he justified with poetic passages 293 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 1: like the one Renee shared. Was it worth it? Did 294 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: I hear God wrong? These were the questions Renee said 295 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: she'd been asking herself lately, the things she never stopped 296 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: to ask of herself all those years in Uganda. So 297 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: I'm really curious to talk about, you know, especially leading 298 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: up to if there were moments that you recall of 299 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: having self doubt about not so much submission of the organization, 300 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,479 Speaker 1: just about how are you were going about it, how 301 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 1: much work you were doing, For example, like the workaholic 302 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: thing that a I was so busy that I almost 303 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: like didn't have time to probably doubt the things that 304 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: were going on. Um, whether that's like right, wrong or indifferent, 305 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 1: But I felt with such strong certainty that like serving 306 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 1: as children was doing what it was supposed to do. 307 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 1: As like ignorant and like kind of pumpous as it sounds, 308 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: I didn't have a lot of self doubt back then, 309 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: and I think part of that was because I was 310 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: like young and ignorant and ambitious, and you know, like 311 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: I didn't know what I didn't know. And I think 312 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: that's some more now, Like did I just like totally 313 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: waste my life and like ruin other people's lives? But 314 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: doing the last decade of my life, um is more 315 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: thought now. And I think I've always felt like sure 316 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: of my decisions when I come to them, like all 317 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: growing up and through high school and even like my 318 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: decision to go to you gone to the first time, 319 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: and once I made those decisions, I felt like such 320 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,719 Speaker 1: a strong conviction it was what I was supposed to do. 321 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: And yeah, like I missed. I missed that feeling of 322 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 1: of being assured that like I'm on the right path 323 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: in life, and um, I definitely don't have that anymore. 324 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: When I first began working on this story, I thought 325 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: we were going to figure out the truth. Either Renee 326 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: was a monster and she'd killed those kids, or she'd 327 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: been wrongly accused and she was the victim of a 328 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,959 Speaker 1: tremendous injustice. But then I spent time with her and 329 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: discovered what a mess this whole thing was, and I 330 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 1: came to believe that Renee wants and has always wanted 331 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 1: to be a force for good in this world. I 332 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: really do believe that. Still, as we sat on the 333 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: floor of her home, eating her mom's stew, I kept 334 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: thinking about one simple fact, the same thing Helema could 335 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: never get past. Renee had run an unlicensed facility where 336 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: medicine was practiced on vulnerable children, something she'd never have 337 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: gotten away with in the US, And if Renee wanted 338 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: to make a difference, then she should go to jail 339 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: for it. That's the only way there's going to be 340 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: systemic change that we might have a shot at ending 341 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 1: white saviorism. Watching Renee be a mom the empathy I 342 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: felt it was hard to reconcile with these thoughts. But 343 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: as we said before, this story was about so much 344 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 1: more than just one woman. Renee was now a symbol. 345 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: She's the monument that has to be topic and it's 346 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 1: very hard. But I didn't say anything. I just sat there, listen. 347 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: Did you even make a difference, because like, all I 348 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: wanted to do was like make a difference and help people. 349 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,959 Speaker 1: But did I not help anyone? And did I not 350 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: make a difference? Like that's why I'm being told that 351 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: art by the world, you know, um, And so wrestling 352 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: through that stuff really tough. Um. Before I left, I 353 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 1: asked Renee if she had any pictures of the early 354 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: days of serving his children before this all happened. So 355 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: this was at the house. I don't know if you 356 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 1: ever seen it. I guess I don't actually think I've seen. 357 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 1: She pulled out an old laptop and began combing through 358 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,360 Speaker 1: folders and so like, this was my bedroom right here, 359 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 1: and there's like a little small room and there were 360 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: pictures of kids on pink swing sets on the porch, 361 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 1: a photo of a camel that arrived one day at 362 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: the center and never left. The day when ten baby 363 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: goats were born and the staff cradled them all at once. 364 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: It was a pretty happy place with the most part 365 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: people were pretty I'm sure this was. This was our kitchen, 366 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: and these two rooms turned into also rooms with cribs 367 00:24:54,359 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: for kids, and that was the intensive care room. Then 368 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: we got to photos that we talked about a lot 369 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: sick kids before coming to serving his children and happy 370 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: kids going home. And this little girl was actually admitted 371 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 1: to the center when we um closed in two thousand fifteen. 372 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: She was less than a kilo. She was like a 373 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: pound or something. Yeah, she was in the center. Yeah, 374 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: this was her in the ICU. So he was some 375 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: before and after one. They were hung like this, so 376 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 1: like before and after, before and after we had, you know, 377 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: almost a thousand of those. They went like all the 378 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: way down and all the way to the ceiling. After 379 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: our center closed, these photos stayed up for a really 380 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: long time. It was actually like a very emotional process 381 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: for me to take. It was kind of like a 382 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: morning I guess process too. That's probably a lot of 383 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: a lot of things. That was where I left Renee, 384 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 1: sorting through the memories, taking the good ones with her, 385 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: leaving the bad ones behind, while her daughter, who knew 386 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: nothing of this, slept peacefully in the other room. I mean, 387 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: I would love to be able to work in the 388 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: like humanitarian service industry. Again, um, I don't know if 389 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: that's possible for a while. I'm not super favorably looked 390 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: upon and so some of those circles. But I think 391 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: this has helped remind me that like that is still 392 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: my heartbeat, and I still do love that, And even 393 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: though I've been so burned by it, I still a 394 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: big part of my heart is still in that world. 395 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: That day in the courtroom, the judge announced that after 396 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: months enclosed or negotiations, both sides, Renee and the mothers 397 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 1: still hadn't reached an agreement, so he ordered the case 398 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: back to legal mediation, a last dig attempt to settle 399 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: things out of court. After a whole year, it was 400 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: tough to see any ending or any answers to this 401 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: whole case. It felt like things had never left the 402 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: starting line. But there's one child who's been on my 403 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: mind this whole time, one we haven't told you about yet. 404 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 1: His name is Elijah Kawa Gamba, and he's the son 405 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: of Kakai Annette Rose, one of the mothers involved in 406 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: the court case. There's a simple reason you haven't heard 407 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: much about Kawa Gamba. Yet it's because well, we don't 408 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: really know what happened to him, and neither does Kai. 409 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: And then I met Kakai for the first time shortly 410 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: after the case was filed at a hotel Enginer. She 411 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 1: was shy, looking down at her feet with her hands 412 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: folded in her lap. Joyce Alana, one of Herne's former 413 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 1: social workers, helped interpret for me without any without discharge 414 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 1: from They didn't even tell how the shell is suffering from. 415 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: What Kakai did know was that Cala Gamba passed away 416 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: shortly after being discharged from serving his children's new reopened facility. 417 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: But she was never told why her baby died. Reaching 418 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,479 Speaker 1: their home, they said, just spent three days and they 419 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: said date. So she doesn't know what was done to 420 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: the child. She can't now return her child back. All 421 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: the hopes not there and all the hopes are gone. Yeah, 422 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: she had three other children, the young one who is 423 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: for us. Keep on asking them where is Cala Gande? 424 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: Doesn't know that I do what The last line of 425 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: kais affidavit reads, I strongly believe that serving his children's 426 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: employees did something to my child that led to his death. 427 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: Here's Prima again. It's abuse of dignity. You basically stripped 428 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: these women of the woman who would say that you 429 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 1: treat them like they're not people. She asked for what 430 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: had killed her child, and no explanation was given. It 431 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: was until we filed the case and they fired this 432 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: response almost four or five months later. As a human being, 433 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: you deserve a right to access your medical records. It 434 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,040 Speaker 1: doesn't matter if I'm illiterate or I paid no I 435 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: stew As a human being, I have rights to dignity 436 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: because you took my child a life. My child is 437 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: did Renee, however, denies that Kawa Gamba was ever even 438 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,719 Speaker 1: admitted to serving his children. She says she knows nothing 439 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: about him or Kakai. Then we started hearing rumors that 440 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: this whole thing was a setup, that Kawa Gamba's death 441 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: was due to Kakai's negligence. We needed to follow up 442 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: on these new revelations, so I went over to Kakai's 443 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: house with Samy, the same former employee who helped me 444 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: track down Nabucoz's mother. The whole bumpy motorcycle ride there, 445 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: my stomach was in a not Kakai didn't know what 446 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: our interview was going to be about, and the last 447 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: thing I wanted to do just confront a grieving mother 448 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: with a conspiracy that she killed her own child and 449 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: pinned it on Renee. Kah Kakai's family home was on 450 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: a small farm of banana trees and cassava plants, with 451 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: a few chickens running around and making a racket. She 452 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: smiled as soon as we wrote in and invited us 453 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: inside with her elderly mother. We sat around a small 454 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: wooden table and started talking. Okay, so yeah, I'm hoping 455 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: to hear your story from the beginning to the end 456 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: um and then from there we will discuss more. Mike 457 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: Wanda m m story. Mm hmm, you're good, I go 458 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: on it. She told me the same story that she'd 459 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: written in her affidavit, her back and forth journeys to 460 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: serving his children, to Ginger and my Yuka, to home 461 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: in the hospital, and eventually the death of her son Isa. 462 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: He's trying to tell you that her child, though the 463 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: child was small, the child was living a happy life, 464 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: was so happy, was so lively because being small. It's 465 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: not her sickness. What paining most was that, to this 466 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: day she's never been told exactly what caused her son's death? 467 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: Did they give her a reason for this? Church? Back 468 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: walk when the sea to energy and tell you what come? 469 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: She's telling you that? Now what reason? If they even 470 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: failed to present a dougment to her about the medicine 471 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: that the child has been given the condition, Now what dougment? 472 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: But then I had to ask the question that I'd 473 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: come here to ask. The story I've heard is this 474 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: that they told her that the child has pneumonia. The 475 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: doctor said that this clinic does not have the equipment 476 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: or qualifications to treat pneumonia, so they gave her medicine 477 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: and told her to go to a different hospital. Buddy, yeah, 478 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: oh my, no what She slammed her finger on the 479 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: table to make a point in a single word. But 480 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: I never heard her like this. No, no, no, like 481 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: to see what they she's telling you that he was 482 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: not told anything about when a sickness Caba Gandia suffering from. 483 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: If they're saying like that that the child had money 484 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: and she was advised to go and seek for medical treatment, 485 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: theyre just liars. Go man, article see and no, I 486 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 1: could see we didn't go on that child even better 487 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 1: passing she began to shake with anger one and the 488 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 1: man to south grand about I'm tears ran down her cheeks. 489 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: What a man hanger, Nancy you. I pulled the microphone 490 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 1: away and looked down at my feet. I felt like 491 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: I'd driven a knife into Kai and twisted it. I 492 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 1: began to question what I was even doing there in 493 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: the first place. And something she said earlier in the 494 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: interview ray in my ears louder and louder, what is 495 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: the relationship that Mr Kakai has with Kelsey and No 496 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 1: Waight Saviors? How did she come to know them? Nea 497 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: wm Zio solf has come here? When she met them, 498 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: they asked her some questions and she answered to them 499 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 1: how she has answered you. No Wight Saviors had shown 500 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: up and asked Kakai to retell the most painful moments 501 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: of her life. Then they packed their bags and were off. 502 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 1: It was the same pattern Kakai saw and every single journalist, 503 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 1: lawyer and activists that visited, and I realized I was 504 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:52,399 Speaker 1: no different. We spoke to over a hundred people around 505 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,399 Speaker 1: the world to get to the bottom of the story. Well, 506 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: there'd be malnourished children and then one day they've Begune 507 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: what happened? Why we dove deep in the ginger community 508 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: and got caught up in the drama of it all. 509 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,360 Speaker 1: It was just, honestly, like mean girls on steroids. We 510 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: flipped through centuries of history to understand the impact of 511 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: the missionary movement. I'm doing this by virtue of a 512 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,839 Speaker 1: fourth greater than me. We waded through rivers of red 513 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: tape to understand how the government could let something like 514 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: this happen. See goed the step and say the center 515 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: has been closed. We spent so much time piecing together 516 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: contradictory narratives. She wasn't a good Samaritan, She's a fraud 517 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,399 Speaker 1: hunting for clues the Missongus that found Nabucosa. They're saying 518 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: that she was neglected and getting caught up in the 519 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: nitty gritty of it. This is the city as Proceedia 520 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 1: that I forgot what this story was actually about. This 521 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: case became a symbol for white guilt. Black lives do 522 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,760 Speaker 1: not matter to the same level to us as white people, 523 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: the failures of international aid but we can't get rid 524 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: of it, and structural racism in Africa. People galify what 525 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: people seemed like everyone involved in this case was using 526 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: it to make a point. I hoped to see humility 527 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: to defend an idea, was watching her be literally crucified 528 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: for trying to do the right thing. Somewhere along the way, 529 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 1: this case stopped being about two mothers seeking answers the 530 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: most simple and basic reparation. And as the world debated 531 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: on Twitter, on cable news, in editorial columns, the Savior Complex, 532 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: five children died in an unlicensed Kakai was here alone, 533 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 1: still searching for some comfort an answer. After she had 534 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 1: a moment to breathe, I asked where Kawakamba's grave was. 535 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 1: She got up and silently led the way. So I 536 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: followed through the banana groves and into a small clearing 537 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: and in the corner was a mound of earth. Oh, 538 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: I'm gonna dick a wemma, I'm bad to Wenmer. Sit up, 539 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 1: it is not listen no, addie. Kakai went over and 540 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: started clearing the weeds from the grave. She told me 541 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,799 Speaker 1: she came out here every week if she could to 542 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: keep kawa Ganbe's grave clean. And then she walked to 543 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 1: the other corner, sat down and wept to herself for 544 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:53,400 Speaker 1: a while. I just stood there until Kokai rose to 545 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: her feet and brought us back to the house. She 546 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,319 Speaker 1: took a seat on a bench with her hands in 547 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: her lap. As we packed her back acts and boarded 548 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:05,399 Speaker 1: our motorcycles. She gave us a wave as we set off, 549 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,719 Speaker 1: and when I looked back a ways down the road, 550 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,239 Speaker 1: she was still there, hands folded, looking down at her 551 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:58,319 Speaker 1: feet as the crickets drowned on into the evening. The 552 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,800 Speaker 1: Missionaries produced in association with I Heart Media. It's written 553 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 1: and reported by Roger Gola, Helene mcge Coondhi, and Malcolm Burnley. 554 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,160 Speaker 1: It's produced by Michelle Lands and Ryan Murdoch. Mark Lotto 555 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 1: is our story editor. Our executive producer is Mangishler. Our 556 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:14,760 Speaker 1: fact checker is Austin Thompson.