Speaker 1: Welcome to you Stuff you should know from house Stuff
Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Josh Clark with Charles W. Chuck, Bryant Cowdy and Jerry
Speaker 1: for the last time this year. Yeah, it's just informed
Speaker 1: us and she's all smiles. She is not very nice, Jerry.
Speaker 1: How'd you like that presentation earlier? The sensitivity training? It
Speaker 1: was great. Yes, people, because we worked for corporation, we
Speaker 1: have things like sensitivity training, and in those trainings you
Speaker 1: get shown video examples of various forms of harassment and
Speaker 1: they are the best, most fun things to watch. Ever,
Speaker 1: they're pretty overt. Yeah, I could watch those all day long.
Speaker 1: I was wondering how much that production company made from that.
Speaker 1: You know they did, but like five little vignettes they
Speaker 1: I'm sure they paid the actors like literal peanuts. They
Speaker 1: were bad actors. They were like, there's the peanut bucket
Speaker 1: over there, you can pay yourself. Yeah, the old The
Speaker 1: one that really got me was the Actually they were
Speaker 1: all really funny, but the one with the old guy
Speaker 1: in the in the factory loading boxes like a shipping warehouse,
Speaker 1: and they were giving the old man a hard time
Speaker 1: about everything because he was old. Yeah, because he's old,
Speaker 1: and you know, he'd they were giving a hard time,
Speaker 1: so he'd, uh he was out of work for a
Speaker 1: while and they had to cover for him, the old man,
Speaker 1: and he had the back brace on, did you know what?
Speaker 1: I said? And he just looked on his face. He
Speaker 1: just kept getting a little more like pouty the whole time.
Speaker 1: I was like, dude, that's good acting. Stick up for yourself.
Speaker 1: Tell these young kids, you know what to do. The
Speaker 1: back brace prevents him from it. Anyway. I just had
Speaker 1: to bring that up because I just think that stuff
Speaker 1: is so funny, And what's funny is people really do that,
Speaker 1: some of that stuff that you're like, what, there's some
Speaker 1: creeps out there. Um, that was a really weird set
Speaker 1: up for Jimson because he's the least harassing guy he
Speaker 1: was probably ever. Yeah, he certainly comes across that way.
Speaker 1: He's a genuinely good dude. It's not one of these
Speaker 1: stories you hear about, like, uh, maybe some of your
Speaker 1: favorite children's books writers or cartoonists or something, maybe we're
Speaker 1: kind of bad people. No, apparently not at all. Um,
Speaker 1: he was not. Only so there's a lot of quotes
Speaker 1: in this article. John no John. I thought John Strickland
Speaker 1: wrote it. It turns out that's not the case. I'm surprised, um,
Speaker 1: because he's friends with or down with at least one
Speaker 1: of Jim Henson's kids, I believe lives here in Atlanta.
Speaker 1: And but in this article, it's one of those things
Speaker 1: where everybody who compliments Jim Henson, who worked with him,
Speaker 1: they go to the trouble of complimenting him in a
Speaker 1: way that's not just like, oh, he was such a
Speaker 1: great guy. They all back up just a little bit
Speaker 1: because they're cognizant that that doesn't get it across, and
Speaker 1: they want you to understand that they're talking about more
Speaker 1: than just the great guy. Like, oh, he's dead and
Speaker 1: I'm not going to speak ill of the dead, and
Speaker 1: he was a great guy. And that's a really thoughtless, polite,
Speaker 1: inoffensive thing to say. So, like Frank Oz said something
Speaker 1: like he was a he was a great guy, but
Speaker 1: at the same time, you know, he was a human,
Speaker 1: but he was still a really great guy. So like
Speaker 1: what you're thinking of as a great guy, get rid
Speaker 1: of that and actually replaced it with a genuine human
Speaker 1: great guy. Yeah, because as a filmmaker, he's a puppeteer obviously,
Speaker 1: but he was a filmmaker first and foremost, which a
Speaker 1: lot of people kind of forget about. Um, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a tough, tough job, super stressful, and you and
Speaker 1: I have seen it can make good guys and good
Speaker 1: ladies be real jerks and you under stressful situations. You know,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a tough thing. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: money on the line each day, and uh, it's like
Speaker 1: everybody relaxed. It's just millions of dollars. But frank Oz,
Speaker 1: I think that's the point he was making, like even
Speaker 1: when he would get frustrated in a stress like that,
Speaker 1: it was he was still a good guy behind it all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I read a read an I guess there was
Speaker 1: a book review of biography about him that that showed
Speaker 1: that it was all somebody said it was all just
Speaker 1: play to him, like work was play. Even though he
Speaker 1: worked really hard, he was able to commit himself like
Speaker 1: that to his work because to him he was having
Speaker 1: the time of his life all the time. And apparently
Speaker 1: like there was just there was no line between work
Speaker 1: and play, which now that we've seen that sensitivity training
Speaker 1: could have gotten him in a lot of big you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of trouble, but he, Um, he just enjoyed
Speaker 1: the life that he had. From what I understand, love cars.
Speaker 1: He had like a lotus that was the same color
Speaker 1: as Kermit the Frog. Um, he had a role is
Speaker 1: Royce early on from his work. Yeah, Um, let's talk
Speaker 1: about let's talk about the guy. Yeah, I mean, if
Speaker 1: you haven't, I just need to go ahead and say,
Speaker 1: if you haven't listened to the episode on the Muppets, Um,
Speaker 1: this is a what I consider just a more in
Speaker 1: depth part two on the man himself. But that's one
Speaker 1: of our favorite all time episodes and from feedback, one
Speaker 1: of the great all time fan episodes. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: a great episode. Yeah, it was just a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: And so I hope this augments that one. I hope
Speaker 1: you do it justice. So, um, that's actually one of
Speaker 1: the reasons why we can do this episode because we
Speaker 1: already did a Muppets episode and they tweeted about us.
Speaker 1: Do you remember the Henson Company did? Yeah, they did,
Speaker 1: which was they approved, got their actual approval, right, man.
Speaker 1: That was something. Um, the the Muppets episodes, it's own thing.
Speaker 1: It's about Muppets. This is about Jim Henson. And it's
Speaker 1: appropriate that we're doing this because he was more than
Speaker 1: just the Muppets, even though everybody pegs him with the
Speaker 1: Muppets and like that is a huge thing. He was
Speaker 1: more than that. Like you said, he was a filmmaker,
Speaker 1: but originally started out as it a puppeteer, but kind
Speaker 1: of a reluctant one. Yeah. He was born in uh
Speaker 1: ninety six September James Marie Henson, m A U r
Speaker 1: Y in Mississippi, and his grandmother, maternal grandmother was a
Speaker 1: painter and a quilter and a needle worker. And apparently
Speaker 1: it was a big inspiration to him, uh, just to
Speaker 1: seek out the creative in life, right, which is pretty great, um,
Speaker 1: and one of the one of the things he got into. Well,
Speaker 1: he was originally a kind of a fan of ventriloquism
Speaker 1: a little bit, but he he said later on in
Speaker 1: life that he was never he was never like obsessed
Speaker 1: with puppets or anything like that like you would have
Speaker 1: expected him to be. And as he went to college
Speaker 1: I think in Maryland, he uh, he got into he
Speaker 1: started out as a studio artist, that's what he was studying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he loved television above all else. From the time he
Speaker 1: was a little kid, he was just transfixed by the tube.
Speaker 1: He almost kind of made himself destined to be on
Speaker 1: television by being obsessed with it. But um, he kind
Speaker 1: of stumbled into puppetry uh in college, and he started
Speaker 1: out as a studio art major and ended up graduating
Speaker 1: with a home X degree because home X was the
Speaker 1: only degree that offered puppet making courses. Yeah, he he
Speaker 1: majored h or He took a puppetry course at first,
Speaker 1: and h then a bunch of textiles and crafts courses,
Speaker 1: which is a great way to you know, start building
Speaker 1: and making your own puppets. Right. So, but he graduated
Speaker 1: with the home X degree. But by the time he graduated,
Speaker 1: he was already extremely successful. The UM the Rolls Royce
Speaker 1: that I mentioned he bought in time to drive to
Speaker 1: his college graduation because he had already created successful shows
Speaker 1: UM in his town. Yeah, I think he was in
Speaker 1: high school. He was on the local TV station doing
Speaker 1: little guest spots and then uh, in nineteen fifty five,
Speaker 1: the show Salmon Friends debuted and that uh. You know,
Speaker 1: he also did work on the side making money with UM.
Speaker 1: I think he did some of the like really cool
Speaker 1: concert posters of the day, really color colorful silk screen posters,
Speaker 1: and salmon prints did really well. Uh, but he still
Speaker 1: wasn't quite sure, Like I still don't know if I wanted,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a filmmaker. I did. Did these short
Speaker 1: films really sort of weird abstract short films, live action
Speaker 1: experimental that totally experimental. Did you see the time Piece? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that one was pretty cool. It was great, um, and
Speaker 1: it's way and did you see the Cube? I watched
Speaker 1: parts of the Cube that was did you see the end? Now? Oh,
Speaker 1: you've got to see the end. I skipped the middle
Speaker 1: because I was like, Okay, I get where you're going
Speaker 1: with this. Yeah, well we should just set it up
Speaker 1: real quick. The Cube was a show on NBC. It
Speaker 1: was a one hour show um in nine. The name
Speaker 1: of the show NBC did was called Experiment and Television,
Speaker 1: and it was a different thing each week. And he
Speaker 1: had one week's installment called The Cube, which was a
Speaker 1: guy just stuck in a white room but other people
Speaker 1: could come in and out of the room, but he
Speaker 1: could not write yes, and he starts to go kind
Speaker 1: of crazy and it has the look and feel of
Speaker 1: a color TV ad um, like all lots of overacting
Speaker 1: and like Carol burnettesque characters and stuff like that, but
Speaker 1: the sentiment behind it and like the everything behind is
Speaker 1: really neat and it really gives you a good, an
Speaker 1: eye opening example of like what Jim Henson was capable of,
Speaker 1: but also like what he was into, because you know,
Speaker 1: when you think of him, you think of muppets and
Speaker 1: Sesame Street in particular. Sure, and these are weird abstract
Speaker 1: art films, um not unlike you know, you watch like
Speaker 1: a Jim Morrison art film him from film school and
Speaker 1: it's kind of the same style. You know, that was
Speaker 1: what was going on back then. And he actually got
Speaker 1: nominated for an Academy Award for time Piece. Uh. I
Speaker 1: think Jim Henson had Jim Morrison beat by a mile
Speaker 1: as far as experimental films. When yeah, I'll agree with
Speaker 1: you there. Um So, like I said, he wasn't quite
Speaker 1: convinced that puppetry was his future because he was a
Speaker 1: filmmaker and he was like, puppets are still kind of
Speaker 1: kids stuff. But post college he did the Old Tour
Speaker 1: of Europe, and in Europe, puppeteering is a whole different business.
Speaker 1: It was a lot more serious um and a lot
Speaker 1: more um. I guess it was treated his art, Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: and he said, you know what, I Am going to
Speaker 1: give this a shot. Came back to the US, married Jane,
Speaker 1: and even though he and Jane separated, they never divorced.
Speaker 1: Oh really I thought they did. No, they never uh
Speaker 1: fulfilled the divorce. They just stayed separated and um. Then
Speaker 1: he started making TV commercials and formed his own company
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty three with I don't know if he
Speaker 1: formed it with Frank Oz, but he hired Frank Oz
Speaker 1: and Jerry Jewell, who ended up being obviously legendary puppeteers
Speaker 1: and lifelong collaborators of his. Yeah. Yeah, But he started
Speaker 1: out making a basically a puppet based commercial ad agency
Speaker 1: in New York in nineteen sixty three. Yeah, and they
Speaker 1: weren't making funny commercials back then, so he was really
Speaker 1: pretty revolutionary at the time. And they, I mean, they
Speaker 1: did pretty well for themselves. And one of the smartest
Speaker 1: moves he made early on was all of his contracts
Speaker 1: said that he retained the rights to any of the
Speaker 1: creations he made for these companies, So he was creating
Speaker 1: what some of the things that would later become famous muppets,
Speaker 1: Like the Cookie Monster was originally made for a chip maker,
Speaker 1: and it was this puppet that couldn't get enough of
Speaker 1: these chips. Yeah, he was the wheel steeler and he
Speaker 1: stole cheese wheels. Yeah, okay, that's what it was. Um,
Speaker 1: And he ended up being the Cookie Monster. The reason
Speaker 1: he ended up being the Cookie Musters because Jim Henson
Speaker 1: retained the rights to that creation. That was he was
Speaker 1: a very savvy business guy too. Yeah, and he was
Speaker 1: he was using somebody else's dime, these these advertisers like
Speaker 1: Budgets to kind of hash out and form and make
Speaker 1: his muppets. Yeah. Rolf the Dog started out on Purina
Speaker 1: commercials and was later a sidekick on The Jimmy Dean
Speaker 1: Show in nineteen sixty three, which I remember that from
Speaker 1: the Muppets episode Wolf was the first big Muppet. Then
Speaker 1: it's he's such like a bit character now that you know.
Speaker 1: It's just mind boggling to think he was the one
Speaker 1: that started at all, even before Kermit, before Big Bird,
Speaker 1: it was Rolf. Kermit kind of stole the show. I think. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll talk a little more about Kermit and where he
Speaker 1: came from, right, after this. Alright, so it's nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: nine and a very very big thing happens to Jim Henson.
Speaker 1: He was invited to be on the pilot of a
Speaker 1: show created by the Children's Television Workshop called Sesame Street.
Speaker 1: He did not create it, some people think he did,
Speaker 1: but he did make his mark by creating most of
Speaker 1: the iconic characters. And if you were a fan of
Speaker 1: the old Sesame Streets back then, all, not all, but
Speaker 1: many of those little short films, the little claymation ones,
Speaker 1: are the live actions. He directed those as well, which
Speaker 1: is pretty cool. I never knew that. I think I
Speaker 1: knew that, did you? Yeah, he was he was our restive.
Speaker 1: Yeah he was there. Rustivick, that's right. Russevick is ours.
Speaker 1: That's right. So um chuck. Uh. The whole thing that
Speaker 1: changed everything for him was Sesame Street. He's not a
Speaker 1: he wasn't a creator of Sesame Street. They's hired him
Speaker 1: on and they actually kind of went him over because remember,
Speaker 1: one of the things that Jim Henson always struggled with
Speaker 1: his whole career was he wanted to explore places that
Speaker 1: puppets had never really gone to. In themes that they
Speaker 1: hadn't gone to at least not in the modern age. Um.
Speaker 1: But he was fighting against them not being taken seriously. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it wasn't like he was anti puppet by any means.
Speaker 1: He was or anti kids because one of the big
Speaker 1: reasons he signed on with Children's Television Workshop was their
Speaker 1: goal to educate kids meant a lot to him. But um,
Speaker 1: like you said, I think to merge those worlds successfully
Speaker 1: was a big part of his goal and struggle for
Speaker 1: a little while. Russ Vic, by the way, made the
Speaker 1: little intersticial things for the stuff you should know television,
Speaker 1: the animation, which is why I reference him. So the
Speaker 1: Children's Television Workshop, which is now called the Sesame Workshop.
Speaker 1: From what I understand, they want him over big time.
Speaker 1: He makes all of these characters from like Big Bird,
Speaker 1: and I think Kermit came before Sesame Street, and he
Speaker 1: started out I think we talked about this in The
Speaker 1: Muppet episode two. He started out looking really weird, not
Speaker 1: cool at all, like really kind of freaky, which is
Speaker 1: something that I now that I know a little more
Speaker 1: about Jim Henson, I think maybe he might have even
Speaker 1: been going for. But one of the things that Sesame
Speaker 1: Street allowed him to do was to really kind of
Speaker 1: explore something that he'd long been obsessed with, which was
Speaker 1: television and where it converged with puppets, which was all
Speaker 1: new territory, and Jim Hanson was at the bleeding edge
Speaker 1: of it because if you think about it, when you
Speaker 1: go to a puppet show live, you know, you're you're
Speaker 1: looking at what's essentially a mechanism for hiding the human
Speaker 1: and there's just a little area that the puppet can
Speaker 1: move around in. Yeah. So Jim Henson stepped back and said, Okay,
Speaker 1: the television is that little tiny area that the puppet
Speaker 1: can stay, can move around in. But it all so
Speaker 1: opens up the whole world for a puppet because you're
Speaker 1: using camera angles and there's editing, and it's not in person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just frame out the people. So and again we talked
Speaker 1: about this in the Muppet episode. He created something called
Speaker 1: platforming up to where the the puppeteers no longer had
Speaker 1: to like crouch down and in to to to maneuver
Speaker 1: the puppets. Because he was a tall guy, yeah, tall
Speaker 1: and lanky man. He was skinny. Those running shots and
Speaker 1: time pieces because he was in it, they were hysterics. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he weighs about seventy pounds somehow big lanky legs.
Speaker 1: But um, so yeah, the performers could stand up, which
Speaker 1: was a huge weight off. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: because you're working with cameras and stuff like that, and
Speaker 1: they have the whole universe to move around in and
Speaker 1: Jim Henson wanted him to move around as much as possible,
Speaker 1: it also put him in some weird positions. Yeah, if
Speaker 1: you ever well, some people might think it's like kind
Speaker 1: of ruining the thing, but I think it's really neat
Speaker 1: if you if you just look up on Google images,
Speaker 1: mupp Spot, Muppet Show behind the scenes pictures, and it'll
Speaker 1: show the stage sets you know, like uh, six ft
Speaker 1: off the ground and all the people standing beneath. Um.
Speaker 1: I think it's awesome to look at. But some people don't,
Speaker 1: like you know, they want to keep that illusion alive.
Speaker 1: So depending on what kind of person you are, either
Speaker 1: seek that out or don't. And we gave that warning
Speaker 1: in the Muppets Episode two, did we. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: they're really cool pictures because you know, a lot of
Speaker 1: times they're looking at they're looking at video monitors. UM,
Speaker 1: standing there contorted using both hands. Um, like the way
Speaker 1: puppeteers work together, to me is is just a miracle
Speaker 1: because they're acting as the puppets, but they're moving still
Speaker 1: moving among one another as humans underneath, which can be
Speaker 1: really complicated. We, in fact, we know some really really
Speaker 1: talented puppeteers here in Atlanta. Yeah, the Center for Puppetry
Speaker 1: Arts is yeah, I think the nation's largest puppet puppeteer organization. Yep.
Speaker 1: And that is where we had our TV show debut party,
Speaker 1: premiere party. Like, it was a really cool experience, Like
Speaker 1: emmett Otter and the gang are right there on display.
Speaker 1: I think the Hintson and Kermit cut the ribbon for
Speaker 1: the grand opening back when it opened, and UM ended
Speaker 1: up donating like five hundred puppets and muppets to the
Speaker 1: Center for Puppetry Arts. So if you ever visit Atlanta,
Speaker 1: people always email us and say what should we do?
Speaker 1: Highly recommend going and checking out the Center for Puppetry Arts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because they have a museum with, like you said, emmett Otter,
Speaker 1: like a full size life size s yeah behind glass,
Speaker 1: scary as you can imagine. Yeah, But I was talking
Speaker 1: about Raymond Carr, our friend who I hate to keep
Speaker 1: bring up the TV show, but it all kind of overlaps.
Speaker 1: He was a production designer for Stuff You Should Know
Speaker 1: on Science Channel, and he and his friends Brandon and
Speaker 1: the Gang are amazing puppeteers and they're doing some really
Speaker 1: really leading edge, like cool stuff here in Atlanta, Like
Speaker 1: these giant puppets operate, like, you know, fifting foot tall
Speaker 1: puppets operated by like six and eight people. Have you
Speaker 1: ever seen the spaceman that they do. No, man, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 1: It's really cool. It's like, I don't know how tall
Speaker 1: he is. He seems like he's twenty ft tall. And they,
Speaker 1: you know, do these at parades and stuff, and it's
Speaker 1: just really really cool stuff. That's awesome. Yeah, but Hinton
Speaker 1: is a huge inspiration to them obviously. Oh yeah. I
Speaker 1: think anybody who works even remotely in puppets has got
Speaker 1: to be inspired by Jim Um. One of the other
Speaker 1: things that he came up with was that was based
Speaker 1: on putting muppets or puppets on TV. Was using softer materials. Yeah,
Speaker 1: everything else is like up to that point, stiff wood marionettes,
Speaker 1: ventriloquist dummies, that kind of stuff. He used like foam
Speaker 1: and it allowed the puppets themselves to have more expressive faces,
Speaker 1: which was great for close up on TV. Yeah. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: and it also I mean now looking back, he just
Speaker 1: are like, well, yeah, of course, it's what puppets do.
Speaker 1: That's what I know. But that was Jim Henson that
Speaker 1: came up with that, and it changed everything because it
Speaker 1: took something like, I mean, imagine, how do he dot?
Speaker 1: It was like, yeah, it's cool, you know, it's how
Speaker 1: do he doty? Or whatever? But whether close up or
Speaker 1: far away, he looked exactly the same. It was like
Speaker 1: a wood head with like a moving lower jaw, and
Speaker 1: you know, he gave you nightmares. But with the Termit,
Speaker 1: the frog or something like that. The fact that he
Speaker 1: could have different expressions and react differently, and and his
Speaker 1: emotions could be shown on his face, that made him
Speaker 1: that much more popular, that much more approachable, uh, to
Speaker 1: people who were into him, absolutely, which is everybody. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: show me someone who doesn't like muppets in any form.
Speaker 1: I get it. If you don't like it anymore, maybe,
Speaker 1: but your heart is cold and dead inside um for
Speaker 1: a while. And this is something I don't think I knew. Uh.
Speaker 1: He dabbled on Saturday Night Live in season one, h
Speaker 1: Lauren Michael's got him a deal to perform some sketches
Speaker 1: and ultimately it wasn't a huge success and it wasn't
Speaker 1: the greatest marriage, but it was pretty cool that he
Speaker 1: was uh seeking out, you know, different avenues to get
Speaker 1: those puppets on television. It was and his big break came,
Speaker 1: um in nine he had it. He wanted to make
Speaker 1: The Muppet Show. And he had a lot of trouble
Speaker 1: in the US still, even though he had his various
Speaker 1: successes on commercials and stuff. Uh. So he had to
Speaker 1: go to London and a TV producer named Lord lew
Speaker 1: Grade gave him a deal with grades A TV Studios
Speaker 1: and said, you know what, you can make your show. Uh,
Speaker 1: and the Muppet Show was born. Oh yeah about it
Speaker 1: being about a boom, that was it. That was it.
Speaker 1: And um you can really see Jim Hinson's love of
Speaker 1: variety shows and just kind of um, well, just the
Speaker 1: stage uh in The Muppet Show because if you think
Speaker 1: about its set, the whole thing set backstage at a
Speaker 1: variety show. It's such a great idea when look back
Speaker 1: at it. Let me take it for granted a little
Speaker 1: bit because we were kids, but now as an adult,
Speaker 1: it's like, what a perfect way to frame this world
Speaker 1: is It's basically like thirty Rock or thirty Rock was
Speaker 1: the Muppet Show? Right? Well, the Muppet Show started all that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't know if Carol Burnett was before the Muppet Show.
Speaker 1: Yeah it was before, was it? So she did a
Speaker 1: lot of backstage stuff, didn't she. I wonder if who
Speaker 1: started that. I don't know. He hurts was more sketch, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but some of it was like backstage, wasn't I believe
Speaker 1: So I don't remember that. I'm hallucinating right now. They
Speaker 1: to have a good old fashioned variety show again, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they don't have those anymore. Those are big back in
Speaker 1: the day, you know, like the host comes out and
Speaker 1: then their sketches and singing and remember our cabaret, No,
Speaker 1: it was in cabaret. What was it the episode we did?
Speaker 1: Oh burlesque burlesque? Yeah? Yeah, how that started out in
Speaker 1: vaudeville and burlesque cad that's where stand up comedy came from.
Speaker 1: That was an interesting episode. Yeah. I missed those variety
Speaker 1: shows though, like the Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton and
Speaker 1: uh Cail Burnett all the van drell sisters, although Kenny
Speaker 1: and Dolly could just sit on a couch and stare
Speaker 1: at the camera for an hour and I'd watch that
Speaker 1: the best great entertainers too. Um. Alright, so where are
Speaker 1: we in our timeline? Well, Chuck, the Muppet Shows just hit.
Speaker 1: Things are going pretty well. They happened going pretty well
Speaker 1: already for Henson. Apparently in nineteen seventy, rubber Ducky hit
Speaker 1: number sixteen on the Billboard charts. And for those who
Speaker 1: don't know, uh, Ernie is voiced by Jim Henson. So
Speaker 1: Jim Henson sang a song rubber Ducky that made it
Speaker 1: to number sixteen on the Billboard charts. And that was
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, a year after The Cube, before the Muppet
Speaker 1: Show even happened, before Sesame Street even right, No Mystery
Speaker 1: was same year as The Cube. That's good, it's did
Speaker 1: a new touchstone for his life. The Cube yea PC
Speaker 1: and BC. Um. So the Muppet Show was. It was
Speaker 1: a huge hit. It won uh you know, a lot
Speaker 1: of awards, It connored critical praise and won the hearts
Speaker 1: of children all over the world. But it was also
Speaker 1: for adults too. Oh yeah, I think that's why he
Speaker 1: was able to pull it off in Great Britain because
Speaker 1: they have better senses of humor. Yeah. And speaking of adults, Uh,
Speaker 1: he got into some more serious themes with his next
Speaker 1: great show, Fraggle Rock in I never saw a second
Speaker 1: of that show. Oh man, really it wasn't an HBO. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was one of the first HBO original series. We
Speaker 1: either had showtime or we didn't have HPOU. It was awesome.
Speaker 1: Fraggle Rock was great, and uh, the idea there is
Speaker 1: you had the the Fraggle Gang, and then you had well,
Speaker 1: you you had three different groups. You had the home
Speaker 1: of Doc who was an inventor in his dog's procket um.
Speaker 1: You had the Fraggles who share caves underground of Fraggle
Speaker 1: Rock with their neighbors the Dousers, and the Gorg's and
Speaker 1: these gigantic creatures, uh that are in Gorg's garden. And
Speaker 1: the whole point of that show was to show how
Speaker 1: different types of people can live together and work together
Speaker 1: in peace. It was really cool. Didn't know it at
Speaker 1: the time when I was, you know, twelve years old,
Speaker 1: but what I was learning about was acceptance and uh.
Speaker 1: He won three Cable Ace Awards. Uh. Five International Emmys,
Speaker 1: and Fraggle Rock was one of the first big hits
Speaker 1: for HBO as far as TV goes, great, great show,
Speaker 1: lots of great songs that I mean, he had every
Speaker 1: kind of like reggae, rock, country, bluegrass. He was all
Speaker 1: over the map with the music and Fraggle Rock, and
Speaker 1: he I mean, he wrote a lot of songs too.
Speaker 1: I think he wrote rubber Ducky. I'm sure he wrote
Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff on Fraggle Rock. It was
Speaker 1: just yet another thing he did, was right. M Renaissance
Speaker 1: man Um the other show that he came out with
Speaker 1: in the eighties, in the mid eighties that I was
Speaker 1: big time into his Muppet Babies. I never saw one
Speaker 1: second of that, and I love that show. Yeah, we're
Speaker 1: just enough apart in age, where like certain things I
Speaker 1: saw you, I was you were too young for, and
Speaker 1: then certain things I was too old for. You know,
Speaker 1: it's weird though, I'm just gonna say this, so you
Speaker 1: me and I are the same age. Her sister is
Speaker 1: like five years younger than us, and I used to
Speaker 1: love Muppet Babies. You mean's sister used to watch Muppet Babies.
Speaker 1: So you mean it was like, why were you watching
Speaker 1: Muppet Babies. If my younger sister was watching babies, now,
Speaker 1: she watched like Donna Hue or something like that. I
Speaker 1: watched the Muppet Babies. I'm not ashamed anymore to say,
Speaker 1: Well when was that in four? I was thirteen, so yeah,
Speaker 1: I was just I was starting to be a teenager.
Speaker 1: Muppet Babies didn't appeal. I think it was on for
Speaker 1: like four or five seasons, so maybe I was watching
Speaker 1: it at the beginning of the series and it was
Speaker 1: watching it. That's what I've been telling you. Me and
Speaker 1: eighty four, you would have been what eight? Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that's perfect age for Muppet Babies. So I think I
Speaker 1: think we just saw it on different ends of the series,
Speaker 1: is what it was? Is that what it is? Um?
Speaker 1: But have you ever heard of Ron Funches? Uh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: the comedian. Yeah, yeah, he has a little bit about
Speaker 1: Muppet babies. That's pretty hilarious. Yeah he's awesome. I love
Speaker 1: that guy. Yeah, we saw him live. He's just a
Speaker 1: beautiful human being. Um, Muppet Babies was cartoon though, right right?
Speaker 1: It was not live puppets. Correct, it was cartoon, Okay,
Speaker 1: it was so cute. Were they just the regular muppets
Speaker 1: as babies. Oh, we'll have to watch that sometimes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they like use their imagination. Like Gonzo had a
Speaker 1: thing for Indiana Jones, so he was frequently like exploring
Speaker 1: caves and like swinging on vines with the Indiana Jones
Speaker 1: Fedora on and that kind of stuff. Well, see, I
Speaker 1: would probably enjoy that, now you would. Yeah, definitely. All right,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go get Muppet babies, chuck. He did even
Speaker 1: more TV that we'll talk about in a second. Okay, okay, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: and we're back and we're still in the eighties, that's right,
Speaker 1: And you were talking about other TV. As we said,
Speaker 1: the man loved television and filmmaking, and so he got
Speaker 1: away from the muppets and puppets every now and then.
Speaker 1: Uh collaborated with Raymond Scott, who was an electronica pioneer
Speaker 1: actually on shorts called Ripples and Wheels that go h
Speaker 1: and he did that for the Montreal Expo in sixty seven.
Speaker 1: And I know we're jumping around in time, but we're
Speaker 1: just trying to paint the full picture here, not going
Speaker 1: necessarily in order. And then he also did this cool
Speaker 1: thing called the Floating Face, which was a sketch that
Speaker 1: was on the Tonight Show, on the Mike Douglas Show
Speaker 1: in the sixties. Um, which did you see any of
Speaker 1: that a little bit? It was a little weird. It
Speaker 1: was like two eyes and a mouth and they were
Speaker 1: like these invisible wires and background images, and it was
Speaker 1: definitely a little more on that surreal tip, the Hinson
Speaker 1: surreal tip, not kid oriented necessarily. But he got into
Speaker 1: the movies with the Muppet Movie, which was a big hit.
Speaker 1: It still holds up, man, it's still so great. And
Speaker 1: if you want to know more about that movie, into
Speaker 1: some of the cool facts from it, go again, listen
Speaker 1: to the Muppet episode. As a matter of fact, pause this,
Speaker 1: go listen to the Muppet episode and then come back
Speaker 1: to this one. Probably enhance your experience, agreed, or listen
Speaker 1: to him both at the same time. But he followed
Speaker 1: the Muppet In nineteenade two he made The Dark Crystal, Yeah,
Speaker 1: which was puppets and it was based on m some
Speaker 1: drawings by fantasy artist Brian Froud, and um, there were
Speaker 1: no humans. It was all puppets. And I don't think
Speaker 1: it holds up as well, but it still looks pretty good. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it actually is probably better received now than
Speaker 1: it was originally. I think critics appreciated it, but it
Speaker 1: didn't do so well at the box office. But now
Speaker 1: it's become like kind of a cult classic for sure. Um.
Speaker 1: And one of the reasons why it didn't do that
Speaker 1: well at the box office because audiences didn't quite know
Speaker 1: what to make. They heard Frank Oz who co directed it,
Speaker 1: Jim Henson, uh and puppets, and I think they went
Speaker 1: expecting the Muppet movie this and they they got the
Speaker 1: Dark Crystal instead, which is really dark. A lot of
Speaker 1: the like the theme is, you know, good versus evil,
Speaker 1: and it's the evil and it is really really evil.
Speaker 1: And the stuff that happens to some of the puppets is,
Speaker 1: including really cute puppets, is really horrifying. And um, I
Speaker 1: read this awesome quote by Frank Oz and basically he says,
Speaker 1: like Jim thought it was okay to scare kids. As
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, he thought it wasn't healthy for
Speaker 1: kids to never be scared, so like he purposefully was
Speaker 1: trying to scare kids, and he wanted to take the
Speaker 1: tradition back to like grim fairy tales, which were very
Speaker 1: very dark graphics, good that's what he was going for
Speaker 1: with The Dark Crystal. Yeah. I think it was ahead
Speaker 1: of its time for sure. If you look at some
Speaker 1: of these, uh, like some of the C G I
Speaker 1: movies today, I think that Dark Crystal was a precursor
Speaker 1: a lot of those. Uh. Then he went on to
Speaker 1: make the movie The Labyrinth with Bowie, right, Yeah, David
Speaker 1: Bowie and a very young Jennifer Connelly. Now that was
Speaker 1: a legend. Okay, um, good movie. But this was written
Speaker 1: by Terry Jones of Monty Python fame and then rewritten
Speaker 1: a bunch by a bunch of other people, including executive
Speaker 1: producer George Lucas. Um. Labyrinth was okay, not bad. Again,
Speaker 1: not a huge hit for Hinson though as far as
Speaker 1: movies go. But he was still out there exploring these
Speaker 1: cool fantastical worlds and fantasy worlds. And he still had
Speaker 1: a lot of credit. Um, even in the late eighties. Uh,
Speaker 1: if you think about it, his heyday was the late
Speaker 1: seventies early eighties with The Muppet Show, the Muppet Movie,
Speaker 1: and then after that it was like, yeah, I'll try
Speaker 1: this with Jim Henson. I'll try this with Jim Henson. Um.
Speaker 1: And even even still he had like a He was
Speaker 1: on a pretty eight streak and at the end of
Speaker 1: the A d C had two TV shows on the
Speaker 1: Jim Henson Hour and Storyteller. The Storyteller, Yeah, the Jim
Speaker 1: Hinson Hour. He was always pushing the boundaries. The Storyteller
Speaker 1: looking Back Now, I'm sorry, Jim Hinson Ower looking Back
Speaker 1: was really different from what you were getting at the
Speaker 1: time because it was it was all over the map.
Speaker 1: You had certain shows that were like, you know, four
Speaker 1: or five sketches in one and then three of the
Speaker 1: episodes were full on one hour little mini movies from yeah,
Speaker 1: from beginning to yeah. That's a good point actually. Um.
Speaker 1: One of the little mini movies was called dog City,
Speaker 1: which was great. It was narrated by Rolf and it
Speaker 1: was I remember watching this. It was like a film
Speaker 1: noir gangster thing with puppet dogs. Uh and the main character,
Speaker 1: A s U was the guy who did Elmo. Kevin
Speaker 1: Clash did the character of a s U and that
Speaker 1: was fantastic. I think Dog City went on to be
Speaker 1: a TV show in its own right too for a
Speaker 1: little while. But it was really good. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: total like gangster crime, film noir, but it's you know,
Speaker 1: Rolf the Dog, the Gang. I love it's really cool.
Speaker 1: Um the Storyteller I hadn't seen before. I was, I
Speaker 1: guess aware of, but I don't know why I wasn't
Speaker 1: watching it because it would have been like right there
Speaker 1: for me because I would have been twelve. But I
Speaker 1: watched one today and it was really good. It's like
Speaker 1: human um puppet interaction, which is and it's just seamless.
Speaker 1: Like There's one of the things from studying this that
Speaker 1: I've realized is like we take for granted and expect
Speaker 1: our puppet human interactions to be so seamless that we
Speaker 1: don't even realize that we're looking at puppets right then.
Speaker 1: And the reason why we expect that is because of
Speaker 1: Jim Henson and the people he worked with in and
Speaker 1: inspired to work so hard at creating that illusion. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: the illusion that these are living, breathing things. Uh, he
Speaker 1: would go I remember Kermit as guest on talk shows.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't go out as Jim Henson. He would go
Speaker 1: out as I mean, he did those appearances as well,
Speaker 1: but Kermit the Frog would be a guest on The
Speaker 1: Tonight Show with Johnny Carson or host or host the
Speaker 1: night guest House, The Night Show and Larry King. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it was all a part of this um goal
Speaker 1: of making these real people or real living things not people. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Apparently somebody who was working with Jim Henson was I
Speaker 1: guess the director of the Muppet Show would be giving
Speaker 1: Jim notes on Kermit, and Jim would just respond, like,
Speaker 1: let Kermit respond, and the director said, eventually you're just
Speaker 1: sitting there. You turned and you address Kermit like he
Speaker 1: just forced you into like interacting with the puppet, even
Speaker 1: during a note session. Yeah, and probably without feeling silly
Speaker 1: or stupid or anything. You know, it probably seemed like
Speaker 1: a totally normal thing to do eventually once he forced
Speaker 1: you to do. Uh. He also pioneered the Henson Performance
Speaker 1: Control System and won an Academy Award for that, and
Speaker 1: that was a remote control system that helped puppeteers out.
Speaker 1: So he was always pushing technical, visual, um stylistic thematic
Speaker 1: boundaries as far as he could UM, and they didn't
Speaker 1: always work. You know, the movies weren't aside from the
Speaker 1: Muppet Movie, they weren't the biggest hits UM. The TV
Speaker 1: show a couple of you know, neither one of those
Speaker 1: lasted very long, but I think he was. He was
Speaker 1: just intent on doing something different he uh, and he
Speaker 1: did too, and he died in of us staff infection.
Speaker 1: Organ failure brought on by a staff infection. Did you
Speaker 1: know that? Yeah? I think pneumonia had something to do
Speaker 1: with it, too, didn't it. Not that I saw, I
Speaker 1: really I saw organ failure caused by a group a
Speaker 1: strep infection. I'm sorry. That's staff. Very sad. And if
Speaker 1: you're ever in the mood for a good cry, watch
Speaker 1: the Jim Henson memorial We're Big Bird sings It's not
Speaker 1: easy being green. Yeah, tough stuff people. His children, His
Speaker 1: legacy lives on through Jane, his wife, formed founded the
Speaker 1: Jim Hinson Legacy to preserve his contributions chairing with the public,
Speaker 1: and like I said, he donated five puppets to the
Speaker 1: Center Puppetry Arts and uh. There is also the Jim
Speaker 1: Hinson Memorial in Muppet Museum and traveling exhibits. And his
Speaker 1: sons and daughters help run his foundation, and some of
Speaker 1: them are themselves and run the company. The company has
Speaker 1: changed hands a lot um. I have sort of the
Speaker 1: boring history. When he was still alive, he was going
Speaker 1: to sell it to Disney for a hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: million because apparently he believed in Disney's commitment to characters,
Speaker 1: so he thought like that would be a good place
Speaker 1: for the Muppets to live. Yeah, and Disney went he
Speaker 1: bought it, but he did not get that deal finished.
Speaker 1: But it turns out a hundred fifty million with chump
Speaker 1: change because in two thousand his children sold the entire company,
Speaker 1: including the Sesame Street characters, to a German media company
Speaker 1: for six and eighty million, And then I believe that
Speaker 1: company fell on hard times and they bought it back
Speaker 1: in two thousand three for eighty four million. Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 1: The Hanston children are smart. And in between all that
Speaker 1: there are various exchanges of percentages of steaks with other
Speaker 1: companies and rights of certain characters. Uh, it's a little
Speaker 1: doll to go over all of that, but needless to say,
Speaker 1: they made up pretty well, and eventually Disney now does uh,
Speaker 1: they do own all the Muppet studio. They own the Muppets.
Speaker 1: Apparently the Henston company sold the rights to the Sesame
Speaker 1: Street characters to Sesame Street, which is pretty yes, and
Speaker 1: the Jim Henson Creature shops still builds the Sesame Street
Speaker 1: Puppets and Muppets. Yeah, since they sold the rights of
Speaker 1: the Muppets and there in the Big Blue House characters,
Speaker 1: which I'm not familiar with that one, nor am I,
Speaker 1: but Disney wanted. I guess that's sort of the the
Speaker 1: player to be named later that's included in the in
Speaker 1: the baseball trade. Man. I'm proud of the Henson kids. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're great and uh, I hope we get tweeted about
Speaker 1: this one. From then they seem he seemed pretty great,
Speaker 1: Brian and Cheryl and the gang. He seemed like they're
Speaker 1: doing right by the dad. And there's other siblings too,
Speaker 1: and I think they're all involved, super involved. And sadly
Speaker 1: Jane passed away I think in two thousand thirteen at
Speaker 1: the age of seventy eight. I would have loved to
Speaker 1: have seen what kind of work he did later in
Speaker 1: his life. Oh yeah, the fact that he died still
Speaker 1: had like a couple of TV shows going. I'm years old. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he hit a lot of left in. Uh. If you
Speaker 1: want to know more about Jim Henson, go listen to
Speaker 1: our Muppets episode. And while you're looking that up, you
Speaker 1: can also uh search Jim Henson on the search bar
Speaker 1: at how Stuffworks dot com and we'll bring up this
Speaker 1: great article and us since I said search parts, time
Speaker 1: for a listener mail. Uh this is I'm gonna call
Speaker 1: this sophomore smart sophomore. Hey guys, my name is Matt
Speaker 1: and I'm a sophomore in high school. Smartphomore. I'm a
Speaker 1: newer fan of the show, and I listen while I
Speaker 1: do everything. I just wanted to say the Dark Ages
Speaker 1: were only dark in Europe. The life expectancy in the
Speaker 1: Dark Ages is actually a little longer than before, but
Speaker 1: mostly because there were smaller wars. But things were certainly
Speaker 1: brighter in the Islamic world. In fact, people in the
Speaker 1: Middle East were really enlightened during this time. Within about
Speaker 1: a hundred years, they conquered a lot of new land,
Speaker 1: including Spain. Also, the Arabic language grew to be the
Speaker 1: language of philosophy, medicine, and poetry, and Baghdad became the
Speaker 1: world center of scholarship. They translated almost all of the
Speaker 1: famous Greek philosopher's work into Arabic. Muslim Muslims developed algebra
Speaker 1: to simplify inheritance laws, and they made important strides in
Speaker 1: trigonometry to help people find a way to Mecca. Architecture
Speaker 1: grew to the Great Mosque in Spain. We took roughly
Speaker 1: a year, while medieval cathedrals took hundreds of years to build.
Speaker 1: So the Dark Ages weren't that dark. And the Enlightenment
Speaker 1: came earlier than most think. And that is from Matt.
Speaker 1: Thanks Matt. That is enlightening stuff, my friend. Yeah, our
Speaker 1: numerals are Arabic. Yeah, it's true. We should, we should
Speaker 1: hit on some more Middle Eastern topics. Let's do it. Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, if you want to suggest some Middle
Speaker 1: Eastern topics for us, you can tweet them to us
Speaker 1: at s I s K Podcast. You can post them
Speaker 1: on our Facebook page at Facebook dot com, slash stuff
Speaker 1: you Should Know. You can send us an email to
Speaker 1: Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com, and as always,
Speaker 1: hang out at our beautiful home on the web, Stuff
Speaker 1: you Should Know dot com For more on this and
Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how Stuff Works dot
Speaker 1: com