1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:02,679 Speaker 1: Please note that in this episode we'll be talking about 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: sexual abuse and violence, which could be triggering for some listeners. 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: Please listen at your own discretion. 4 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 2: A Fragil four. 5 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: It's July second, twenty nineteen. At around ten am, news 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 1: cameras from TV Global catch a black police pickup truck 7 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: pull up to the federal courthouse in Abadianya, Brazil. Che 8 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: In this report, you can see a crowd of people 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: all dressed in white, applauding and waving signs with messages 10 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: like God is with you. John of God has been 11 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: in prison for eight months waiting for this day, his 12 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: first day in court. This first trial involves four women 13 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: who accused Joualte Schieda of sexual abuse. Cameras were not 14 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: allowed to observe the court proceedings, which is common in 15 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: trials involving sex crimes. But after the hearing, one of 16 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: Joao's lawyers, Alberto Toron, tells TV Globo that John of 17 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: God says he is innocentl. 18 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 3: Islimbro Ja Penezu mat Simonia. 19 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 2: He only remembered one of the victims and he said 20 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 2: he never committed any act of sexual abuse against her. 21 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: At the end of this TV report, you can see 22 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: prosecutor Luciano Miranda exit the courthouse. He looks serious upset 23 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: even he gets in his car without making any comments 24 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: to the press. It's no surprise Luciano has his game 25 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: face on. Convicting anyone of sex crimes that happened years 26 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: ago is difficult, especially when he's the most famous, influential 27 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: and revered spiritual guru in the country. But Luciano and 28 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: his team have spent months meticulously putting together their case 29 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: and they're not going to repeat mistakes of the past. 30 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: In fact, in the days to follow, they're going to 31 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: argue something that, if done successfully, will deal a death 32 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: blow to Joao's defense from exactly right media and ad 33 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: on the media. This is two faced John of God. 34 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: I'm your host Martina Castro Episode six, The Fall. Luciano 35 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: Miranda says, when it comes to prosecuting crimes of sexual abuse, 36 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: there are both strengths and weaknesses to Brazilian law and. 37 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,959 Speaker 4: Deficios this It's hard to say if we have more 38 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 4: negative or positive aspects. We have some that deserve careful consideration. 39 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: He pointed out three specific challenges. First, until recently, victims 40 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: had to give the government permission to prosecute their aggressor, 41 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: and not only that, the victims had to do it 42 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: within six months from the moment the perpetrator's identity came 43 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: to light or the government could not step in. This 44 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: law changed in twenty nineteen, but it still managed to 45 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: have a huge impact on the prosecution's case against Joao 46 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: starting in twenty eighteen. 47 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 2: Muik does with the X. Muik does with the X. 48 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 4: Many women did not even understand that they had been 49 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 4: abused until the case was brought up by the press. 50 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 2: Okazu celevadu razilmpris notspirit demus wus. 51 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 4: So we lost several opportunities to prosecute d'autshida because of 52 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 4: this six month legal issue. 53 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: Second, Luciano points out the tricky nature of Brazil's statute 54 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: of limitations. Under Brazilian law, someone can only be prosecuted 55 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: for crimes that happened in the past twenty years, but 56 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: if the person being accused is more than seventy years old, 57 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: that time is cut in half. 58 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: So Joel could. 59 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: Only answer to allegations from the past ten years, even 60 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: though victims reported abuse that happened forty years ago. Luciano 61 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: says this kind of statute might make sense when it 62 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: comes to other crimes, but not with crimes of a 63 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: sexual nature. 64 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 4: Poor kid McCoy said, because one thing is when you're 65 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 4: the victim of a theft of robbery, you immediately want 66 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 4: to go to the authorities immediately. But when you're the 67 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 4: victim of a sexual crime, Wow, it's different. At you 68 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 4: fit in and for a person to find the strength 69 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 4: to speak about it, each victim needs their own time. 70 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 5: The. 71 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 2: Silk tin And finally, I think there's silo. 72 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 4: There's a third very negative point in Brazilian legislation that 73 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 4: still persists, the need for repeated depositions. 74 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 2: From the victim Chivas that virtue a mul. 75 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 4: The woman is basically questioned for longer than drought to 76 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 4: Shada himself. It's as if she were the real defendant 77 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 4: in the case. 78 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 2: Ada Hey to process. 79 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: These are just a few of the legal challenges the 80 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: prosecution would face. The biggest one had to do with 81 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: hard evidence. The prosecution didn't have any no DNA or fingerprints, 82 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 1: no eyewitness testimony. It would just be the victim's word 83 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: against Showau's. 84 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 6: Yo, how made you finish me? Don't think that too? 85 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 3: And I really, unfortunately have nothing. I have nothing to 86 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 3: prove what happened other than my word. 87 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 6: Don't tell you. 88 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 7: I have nothing, nothing. 89 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 6: I'll tell you. 90 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: But Luciano and his team made a smart move. The 91 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: victims who couldn't press charges due to statute of limitations 92 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: or other legal issues. They were still included in the case, 93 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: but not as victims, instead as witnesses. When all of 94 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: those testimonies were taken together, they took on a power 95 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: that neither one of them had on their own. 96 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 5: Yes, I think I went as soon as I entered, 97 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 5: don't call Kasha. 98 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 8: He not only closed, but he locked it with the. 99 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 9: Key, and he locked the door in the minute. He 100 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 9: locked the door and put the keys in his pocket. 101 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 2: I was like, shit, I am looking moment. 102 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 6: I remember that. 103 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 7: At that moment, I froze. Why didn't I tell him 104 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 7: right away? 105 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 3: Why didn't I say it right away? 106 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 7: I couldn't do it. I wasn't understanding what was going on. 107 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: Maybe one person could make up what happened to them, 108 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 1: or two, but hundreds of ways with similar stories about 109 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: what John of God did to them over the span 110 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 1: of forty years, women who didn't even know each other. 111 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: That's no coincidence. That's a pattern, a modus operandi. 112 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 4: The abuse was repeated for almost forty years. There was 113 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 4: a modus operandi. It was very similar. This showed that 114 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 4: he did not change his behavior even as time went by. 115 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: To punctuate his point, Luciano mapped out the instances of 116 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: abuse on a graph. This graph showed how victims reported 117 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: similar experiences over time. The only thing that shifted as 118 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: John of God got older was the kind of abuse 119 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: the victims reported. 120 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 2: As Vic was no he spinetrase. 121 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 4: The victims no longer reported penetration, but then they reported 122 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 4: other forms. 123 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 2: Of sexual abuse. 124 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 4: How going to pull a sound, including genital manipulation, masturbation 125 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 4: parts each or touching of intimate parts. 126 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: And in Brazil, all of those sexual acts are considered rape. 127 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 4: Brazilian law understands rape as any lewd act, any act 128 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 4: with sexual connotation, whether it's groping the breasts, buttocks, genitals, intercourse, masturbation. 129 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 4: All of this, depending on the context, constitutes the crime 130 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 4: of rapem ustuk. 131 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: So this is where Brazilian law was going to help 132 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: the prosecution. First, it Meantchoau could be charged for the 133 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: sexual abuse he committed in his later years, and second, 134 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: the prosecution could argue that the unified shift in victims 135 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: testimonies over time made it highly improbable that the victims 136 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: were somehow all telling the same lie. It showed the opposite, 137 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: they were most likely telling the truth. When it came 138 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: time to go to trial, the prosecution decided to divide 139 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: up the charges. That first case officially went to trial 140 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: in July of twenty nineteen. Finally Luciano and his team 141 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: would get to test their argument in court. The trial 142 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: centered on four women who accused Joualte Schieda of raping them. 143 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: It took place in Abadianya, Joao's hometown, which already put 144 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: the prosecution at a slight disadvantage. But then they learned 145 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: the judge presiding over the trial would be ros Angele 146 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 1: Rodriguez Dos. 147 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 4: Santos Amez Majuiz, the same judge who tried Camilla's case. 148 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 4: She was the same one who acquitted him. 149 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 2: Are MIAs Laki Abisolvio. 150 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: We learned about this trial in the last episode. This 151 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: is the same judge who heard kamina Ar's case against 152 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: Chouau back in twenty twelve and who acquitted him in 153 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: twenty thirteen. Due to a legal technicality, then there was 154 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: the defense. Chua's lawyers already proved that they would stop 155 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 1: at nothing to get their client acquitted, including spreading rumors 156 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: and lies about the victims in the press. In particular, 157 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: Luciano knew they would focus on the biggest weakness in 158 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: the prosecution's case, the fact that many of the victims 159 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: returned to the Casa several times after they were first abused. 160 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 1: So Luciano decided to hone in on one similarity among 161 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: the victims testimonies, one that would prove extra helpful in 162 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: explaining their behavior UANDU uabous. 163 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 4: When the abuse is done by someone you don't expect, 164 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 4: your ability to react is a minimum. 165 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 2: At minima husi corportrav. 166 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 4: Your body shuts down, moments freezes. And that's when we 167 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 4: see some phenomena described by neuroscience as tonic immobility freezing. 168 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 4: And that's what we kept hearing v I couldn't scream, 169 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 4: I couldn't move ages David Kazus And I'll tell you this, 170 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 4: more than eighty percent of the victims experienced that sensation 171 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 4: of freezing, of immobility. 172 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: The prosecution argued that this freezing was reason enough for 173 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: the victims to be considered legally vulnerable. Rape of a 174 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: vulnerable person is a more serious crime in Brazil, so 175 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: if the prosecution were able to prove this, then it 176 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: would not only explain the victim's behavior, it would also 177 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: trigger a harsher punishment for Jowow if he were found guilty. 178 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: The only catch is that this would be the first 179 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: time this definition would be applied to this kind of victim. 180 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 4: Aligi's Our law considers vulnerable anyone whose capacity to resist 181 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 4: is in some way diminished or eliminated. At least in 182 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 4: our legal system, we say that vulnerable is the victim 183 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 4: who has a mental Disabilitymidadje. Vulnerable is the victim who 184 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 4: is suffering from an illness, for example, is doped, is 185 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 4: inn a coma. That's what we call vulnerable, And in 186 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 4: the case of Jouti Shida, we had victims who didn't 187 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 4: fit that profile. 188 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: Superfud To prove them vulnerable, Luciano focused on a few 189 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: specific traits many of the victims shared. First, he pointed 190 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: out that Joel's victims or his victims loved ones, were 191 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: often battling a fatal illness and they were desperate for 192 00:12:58,600 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: a cure. 193 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 4: He knew of the illness. He knew about the victims vulnerability. 194 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 4: Then there's another issue. He used to say, for the 195 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 4: illness not to return, you need to come back here 196 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 4: three four, five times. And much of what was said, 197 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 4: especially by lay people who didn't understand why the victims 198 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 4: kept returning, it was because that this illusion was created 199 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 4: that if she did not follow the protocol, she would 200 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 4: succumb to that disease. So the entire drought shade A 201 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 4: case is rooted in this idea that he relied on 202 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 4: the victim's frailty, on the victim's vulnerability to commit the 203 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 4: sexual abuse. 204 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: Secondly, the victims were largely believers and people of faith 205 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: who saw Chawaw as their spiritual leader. This made them 206 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: vulnerable to having their beliefs manipulated by him. 207 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 2: Quand mess. 208 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 4: When you touch something so intimate, so personal, which is religion, 209 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 4: and attack them sexually, you basically remove all the support 210 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 4: that person has, You remove the defense mechanism that the 211 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 4: person uses to deal with any situation. 212 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: And finally, the freezing aspect of victims experiences. Luciano called 213 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: on a psychologist to explain this phenomenon in court. This 214 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: was the strongest argument for why the victims were indeed 215 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: vulnerable fast. 216 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 4: It's easier when you read what the victim says when 217 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 4: she says, I felt like a passenger in my own body. 218 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 4: I couldn't scream, I couldn't run, and when I thought 219 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 4: what he was doing to me was wrong, I felt 220 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 4: like I was getting in the way of my own 221 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 4: healing process process. 222 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: This is common in cases of what the psychologists called 223 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: trust rape. That's when the person abusing you is someone 224 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: you trust and he does it in a place you 225 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: feel safe. Luciano says that context makes one react very 226 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 1: differently than if you were attacked walking down a dark street. 227 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 2: Will sit down done. 228 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 4: If you're walking in a place that you know is 229 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 4: a dangerous zone, you're alert. 230 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 2: There one source of proshima. 231 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 4: When you see the aggressor approaching, your almost immediate reaction 232 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 4: is to scream. One do so co But when it 233 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 4: happens in a setting where you don't expect it, the 234 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 4: phenomenon of tonic immobility and freezing. 235 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 2: Is very common, moointing to the suchs. 236 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 4: So these are very interesting issues for the legal aspects 237 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 4: of the job. To shade a case that we had 238 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 4: to cover raks to build the case. 239 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: After five and a half long months in court, it 240 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: was finally time to hear the judges ruling. By the way, 241 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: in Brazil, all cases are tried by judges unless they 242 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: involve a homicide, which is the only crime tried by 243 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: a jury. That's why so much was at stake for 244 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: Luciano and his team as they carefully presented their argument 245 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: against Joao. It would all boil down to one person's decision. 246 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 4: We didn't know how the course would behave. We knew 247 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 4: what we had the legal conviction, but we didn't know 248 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 4: how the courts would acts. And the response was very 249 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 4: positive in that first batch. 250 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: Positive because at the end of the trial, Judge Rodriguez 251 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: Dos Santos convicted Joao on two counts of rape of 252 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: a vulnerable person and two counts of sexual violence through fraud. 253 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: Jihuau was sentenced to nineteen years and four months in prison. 254 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 10: I knew he was going to get convicted. I knew 255 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:14,959 Speaker 10: it was going to happen. 256 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: Journalist Camilla Appel, who was behind the show that ultimately 257 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: broke the story about Jiuau as a serial rapist, remembers 258 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: the moment she first heard about the conviction. Even though 259 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: she was confident he wouldn't get away with it. She 260 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 1: couldn't help but get emotional when she heard the news. 261 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 6: I did cry. 262 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 10: I cry because all the women that I've talked to 263 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 10: called me and they were crying. They were so so 264 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 10: happy and so feeling for the first time that they 265 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 10: have been heard. Justice was made and that made me very, 266 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 10: very emotional, and I'll never forget it. 267 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: Now that Luciano knew his argument was legally sound, he 268 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 1: and his team moved forward with the other batches of 269 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: cases and they kept By March of twenty twenty, Juau 270 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: had been sentenced to sixty years in prison. It looked 271 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: like he was going to spend the rest of his 272 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 1: days behind bars, but in what seems to be typical 273 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: fashion for John of God, the universe was about to 274 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: intervene on his behalf and give him a major break. 275 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 10: Fears are growing that it won't be possible to stop 276 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 10: the global spread of coronavirus here. 277 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 3: It's the transmission of the disease which you've all heard 278 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 3: so much about, COVID nineteen, which is expanding across Brazil. 279 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 2: So Speza's visier does. Most visits to federal prisons have 280 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 2: been suspended. The measure is intended to prevent the spread 281 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 2: of the coronavirus. 282 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: By March of twenty twenty, the COVID nineteen pandemic had 283 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: reached every state in Brazil. Jua's lawyers had already been 284 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 1: working on a petition for Joau to serve his sentence 285 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: under house arrest instead of prison. Given his advanced age 286 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: and ill health. The new Pende gave their argument the 287 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: extra ammunition they needed. The petition was heard by the 288 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: presiding judge in Abadiana, Judge Rodrigusto Santos, and she granted it. 289 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: So on March thirty first, twenty twenty, Choau got to 290 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: go home. The prosecution would continue its cases against John 291 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: of God and ultimately take him to court. Seventeen times. 292 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 1: They convicted Jouau on charges of sexual abuse, rape and 293 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: a legal possession of a firearm, securing record sentences. 294 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 2: A Pego Maizi. 295 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 4: Altogether he got more than five hundred years. It's not 296 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 4: something we see all the time. I myself have never 297 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 4: seen it before or since. 298 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: But despite all of those wins, Luciano Miranda and his 299 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,439 Speaker 1: team were not able to get Chouau to serve that 300 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: time behind bars. 301 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 4: His last According to Brazilian law, the imprisonment rule for 302 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 4: those who are over eighty years old is house arrest. 303 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 2: Akokis don't let gout. 304 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 4: So this is a legal issue. As long as he 305 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 4: doesn't violate the conditions of his house arrest, there's no 306 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 4: legal argument that could put him back in jail. 307 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 2: Fast a complete voprism. 308 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: So, now, several years since the last trial took place, 309 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: a huge question looms over Joao's convictions. Is justice ultimately 310 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: being served? Well, it depends on who you ask. For Luciano, 311 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: this is not what he had set out to do 312 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: as prosecutor. Home for Joao is a sprawling mansion in Annapolis, 313 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 1: just a thirty minute drive from the Casa in Abadiana. 314 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: He's still allowed to see followers there and conduct healing sessions. 315 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: He can even continue to collect donations and money from 316 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: the Casa. As far as Luciano can see, Johau is 317 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: living life to the fullest. 318 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 4: Duoti Shida remarried. That was two three years ago. Many 319 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 4: are still feeling in prisoned, re experiencing what he did. 320 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 4: He is in his mansion, in his home, with all 321 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 4: the perks that money can buy. 322 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:21,120 Speaker 2: A word of. 323 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 9: Sitting at home and getting remarried doesn't work for me 324 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 9: because he's old. 325 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 1: I mean, give me a break. Karina is one of 326 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: the victims who agrees with Luciano's point of view as 327 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: well as Camilla are. 328 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 7: He hurt a lot of people. 329 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 3: He caused a lot of pain, a lot of trauma 330 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 3: for a lot of people who can't that they were 331 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 3: unable to go on with their lives and turn the 332 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 3: page because I did. And he's still in his house. 333 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 3: What are the restrictions he has? He can't leave the house. 334 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 3: I have a lot of restrictions today, a lot, and 335 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 3: I didn't do anything wrong. 336 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 7: Seemed to keep so I don't feel that justice was 337 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 7: actually done even though he was convicted. 338 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: On the other hand, Anna Paula, the victim whose story 339 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: we heard in episode three, tries to focus on what 340 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: was accomplished. 341 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 2: Jo to conclusive. 342 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,479 Speaker 8: I believe that even house arrest is a compliance with justice. 343 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 8: Yes quite faith as you see, justice has been served. 344 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 8: His mask has fallen off. John of God today is 345 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 8: nothing more than a rapist journalist. 346 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: Kamila Appel from the Conversa Combial show also thinks justice 347 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: was ultimately served. 348 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 10: The thing that he's estimated the most he lost, which 349 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 10: is his credibility, his name. He was very you know, 350 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 10: he was very proud of himself for having famous friends, 351 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 10: and they all turned his back on him. He's a 352 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 10: no one today. 353 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: What everyone can agree on is that this story is 354 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 1: far from over. John of God and his crimes might 355 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: no longer lead the headlines, but his influence is still 356 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: felt in Abadianya and the Gasa, especially if you take 357 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 1: into account all of the other crimes that surfaced after 358 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: Jowau's arrest. Right around the time John of God was 359 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 1: awaiting his first trial in twenty eighteen, journalist Christina Phoebe 360 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: was kicking off a brand new investigation into his crimes. 361 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: She was proud of the article she worked on with 362 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 1: reporter Elena Borges for the newspaper, but she felt like 363 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: there was one question no one had tackled yet. 364 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 6: Okay, so how is that possible? 365 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 11: How can he be like in the most you know, 366 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 11: famous spiritual center in Brazil, everyone was looking to Casaje 367 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 11: Donaso and he was just abusing. Hundreds of women followers 368 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 11: going there searching for a cue. And the only thing 369 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 11: we hear as and we publish as like a press 370 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,400 Speaker 11: is how many people he was curing. 371 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 6: It was something that didn't like make any sense. 372 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: So to make sense of this, Christina decided to write 373 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: a book about Chua. It would try to explain how 374 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: he created a sphere of influence and power that permitted 375 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: him to sexually abuse his followers for over four decades. 376 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 11: So I was like trying to understand how how did 377 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 11: people know? 378 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 6: And that was what I discovered. 379 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 11: Like when I went to about and I started searching, 380 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 11: it was very easy to find out that everyone knew, 381 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 11: everyone knew. 382 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: Christina interviewed Joao's victims, some of his childhood friends and neighbors. 383 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: She spoke with several local authorities in Abadiania and even 384 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: visited the Casa herself under cover. Immediately, she was met 385 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: with veiled threats and an intense culture of secrecy. Like, 386 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: for example, when she went to talk to the local 387 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: police in Abadiania, she asked them about several criminal incidents 388 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: that had popped up in the press since Joao's arrest, 389 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: incidents that seemed to have no formal case files attached 390 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 1: to them. 391 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 11: It was like many many cases which were hidden. So 392 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 11: we went there to say, hey, what's about that case? 393 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 11: And that case and that case. Where are the documents 394 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 11: And he said, yeah, of course I'm gonna have Anyway, 395 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 11: the second day I went there, he had researched like 396 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 11: my family, and he had googled my name and he 397 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 11: wanted to tell me, you know, I know who you are, 398 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 11: I know who your mother is, I know where you live. 399 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: And then five days later, Christina got back home late 400 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: one night after work. 401 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 11: And I had a car waiting for me. Like I 402 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 11: lived in a house in a very safe neighborhood in Rio, 403 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 11: and he was blocking my garage. So I went around him, 404 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 11: went inside my home. He was theret for like five minutes, 405 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 11: watching me, and then he went a few. 406 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 6: Times around the block. 407 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 11: But yeah, I felt like they were telling me, yeah, 408 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 11: I'm watching, I know where you live, and you'll be careful. 409 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: Christina persisted with her investigation and she discovered some unsettling 410 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 1: things that had gone on under the radar at the casa. 411 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 11: Many people went there very sick and they died and 412 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 11: we just didn't know about that. It wasn't in the news. 413 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 11: The person just disappeared. The family didn't know what had 414 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 11: happened to the person, or they would get like returned 415 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 11: to the family without a proper document saying what happened, 416 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 11: why did that person die? 417 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: So Christina went to the local office and go yas 418 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: where deaths are registered, and tried to gather some of 419 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: this information. She asked for all the people who were 420 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: known to have died in Abadiania in one given week, 421 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: and they gave me. 422 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 11: Like, I don't know, twenty and it was like a 423 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 11: very small town and out of the least the majority 424 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 11: was from other countries. 425 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: Christina dug some more and she was able to find 426 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: some names. In twenty twelve, over the course of just 427 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: two months, at least four foreign women showed up dead 428 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 1: at the CASA. Two were from Austria, Martha Rauscher, age 429 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: fifty eight and Elizabeth Herring, age forty seven, and from 430 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: France Giselle Marie Jeanne Luce, age seventy eight, and from 431 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: Greece Evangelina Argiti, age fifty six. It's still unclear how 432 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: these women died. 433 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 11: And then after that I started to learn that there 434 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 11: were also people murdered, which was like how other arm 435 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 11: of the investigation. It was like two very close assistants 436 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 11: to John of God that were murdered at the parking 437 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 11: lot off Cazage Doinas murdered like with ten gunshots. 438 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 6: It was like very, very huge thing. 439 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: Some people were eventually prosecuted for these separate incidents that 440 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: occurred in nineteen eighty eight and the other in nineteen 441 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: ninety five, but Christina doesn't believe they were the real culprits. 442 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 11: It was like the small fish were incriminated and in jail, 443 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 11: but not the guy who were really telling them to 444 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 11: do it. 445 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 6: They never got to John IV Gott, never ever. 446 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 11: They stopped before him. 447 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: Little by little, Christina was piecing together what appeared to 448 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: be a mafia like network of influence that Juau held 449 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: over this town, one that covered up the sexual abuse 450 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: but potentially other serious crimes. To do this, he would 451 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: have needed help from his associates at the GASA and 452 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: his powerful friends in the political and legal system, but 453 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: also from his family. We haven't mentioned much about them, 454 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: but some of the charges were also filed against his wife. 455 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 6: At the time. 456 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: Juau has had three wives over the years, and one 457 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: of his nine children. The most disturbing of all was 458 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: an accusation from one of his saying Joao had sexually 459 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: abused her since she was a child, So what happens 460 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: with all of these other crimes, all of these other 461 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: people who helped cover up or hide what was going on. 462 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: By the end of her investigation, Christina came up with 463 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: a hypothesis. 464 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 11: My conclusion was the authorities made like kind of an 465 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 11: agreement to focus on the sexual abuse, because if they 466 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 11: had looked into everything, they would have to arrest a 467 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 11: lot of more people, and including authorities who were not 468 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 11: investigating correctly. You know, prosecutors, judges, they would really have 469 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 11: to look at it, and they are not willing to 470 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 11: do that at all. 471 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: The public prosecutor Luciano Miranda acknowledges the limited scope of 472 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: his investigation, but when I asked him about this, he 473 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: defended his decision and to focus on Jouau and on 474 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: his sexual crimes. 475 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 2: See sick Coobra. 476 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 4: I know there's criticism that more people should have been 477 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 4: arrested or prosecuted, but all I can say is that 478 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 4: from a legal standpoint, we went as far as the 479 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 4: law allowed us to go. Saint Peter Tichnius said, without 480 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 4: theatrics and without trying to perform something just for the press, 481 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 4: which would later end up discrediting our investigation. 482 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 2: But is loshould do so. 483 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: So that's why Luciano says he put his head down 484 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: and focused on representing the victims who had viable accusations 485 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: against Choau, and it's something he does to this day 486 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: because the cases against John of God are far from closed. 487 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 2: No, don't demos this is only thing. 488 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 4: But we don't have a final decision from the superior 489 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 4: Court of Justice, the Supreme Court, which is the. 490 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 2: Highest course caosa. 491 00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 4: Ind So this still causes us some concern because every 492 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 4: time let's say, a new judge or a new group 493 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 4: of judges reviews the cases, it makes us apprehensives. 494 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 2: To us so pretty I must say. 495 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 4: See, because I don't know if they'll understand the specificity 496 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 4: of this case, how this case is unlike anything else. 497 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: That might sound unlikely at this point, but not if 498 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: you consider that the CASA is still alive and functioning today, 499 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: even without Joao there in person. 500 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 12: There's still tour groups there and I just think it's 501 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 12: terribly dangerous. 502 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: Former tour guide Michael Baylott says more work has to 503 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: be done to get the word out about Joao's crimes, 504 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: especially to foreign followers. 505 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 12: A lot of Europeans are still going. They don't speak 506 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 12: Portuguese for the most part, they don't understand that they've 507 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 12: only heard what the tour guide just told them, and 508 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 12: what they understand is that Juan Schwan's in house arrest 509 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 12: because he really didn't do anything, and they're just trying 510 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 12: to shut them up and put them out of business. 511 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 12: I felt a moral obligation to tell everybody about this, 512 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 12: because none of this is really being published. 513 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: Anthropologist Christina Roscha saw this firsthand. She heard from tour 514 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: guides who were still taking people and decided to visit 515 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: the Caasa herself as recently as twenty twenty four. 516 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 5: And when I was there in May, I saw a 517 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 5: German group and an Australian group had just left. 518 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: During her visit, Pristina says she saw a very different 519 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: version of Abadianya than the one she saw at the 520 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: peak of its popularity. 521 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 5: So of these seventy two guest houses, there are four left. 522 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 5: Everything else closed their doors, Most shops are closed. A 523 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 5: lot of houses were closed. There were still a few 524 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 5: crystal and jewelry shops, lots of for sale signs. So 525 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,320 Speaker 5: what I saw is that the Causa continues to be run, 526 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:16,240 Speaker 5: but now by volunteers. There are many foreigners living there still, 527 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:22,240 Speaker 5: so the rituals are being performed as usual Wednesday to Friday. 528 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,879 Speaker 5: The same things happened. The global movement I think continues 529 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 5: in some way. For example, I talked to people and 530 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 5: who said, oh, look, people who only cared about money 531 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 5: left and now it's much better because the energy is pure. 532 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: The flexibility the Juel built into his belief system to 533 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 1: attract more foreigners is what Christina credits with giving the 534 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,720 Speaker 1: movement a future without him. 535 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 5: So rather than decline, followers see this in reverse. They 536 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,839 Speaker 5: see this as a transformation, as a revival, as an 537 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,240 Speaker 5: increase in spiritualization of the place. 538 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 1: But of course Christina says this also leaves room for 539 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 1: Chuao to potentially make his way back to the Casa. 540 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,320 Speaker 1: The word in Abadienna is that he still plans to return. 541 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 5: People told me that he insists that the entities are 542 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,240 Speaker 5: telling him he's going to go back to the kaza. 543 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 5: I mean, really, he's eighty two, right, and he hasn't 544 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 5: appointed any successor, which means that he still controls the place. 545 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 5: The day when he left, he put a saint his patron, 546 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 5: Saint Santa Ritail of Cacia. He has a big statue 547 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 5: of her. He put on his chair that nobody can 548 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:48,319 Speaker 5: sit here. So he's very very clever. I mean, no 549 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 5: successor on coming back. 550 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:52,320 Speaker 6: You wait. 551 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: For many John of God and his crimes are in 552 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: the past, but the people we spoke with for this 553 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: series say this story is still very present for them. 554 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 11: Sometimes I talk about it as a journalist in Brazil 555 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 11: and I think, wow, I'm repeating myself. I'm talking about 556 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 11: this a lot. Why am I still talking about it? 557 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 1: Journalist Christina Phoebe reflects on why it's important to still 558 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: talk about John of God and this case even so 559 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:23,720 Speaker 1: many years later. 560 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 11: I feel like regarding the press coverage in Brazil after 561 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:34,439 Speaker 11: he's in jail and he has been condemned, it has 562 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:39,359 Speaker 11: a feel like, Wow, the monster is away, it's all over, 563 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 11: It's okay, And I keep talking about it because not 564 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 11: only authorities are not looking at the other crimes. There 565 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 11: is like people who are also criminals that are with 566 00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 11: no punishment and are just free. And so I still 567 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 11: think that this case is symbolic of how far can 568 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:09,879 Speaker 11: the abuse can go. 569 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: So Christina feels compelled to continue covering cases of sexual 570 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,439 Speaker 1: abuse and shed light on the prevalence of this type 571 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: of crime in society. 572 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 11: It's not only like the guy who comes with a 573 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 11: gun and rapes you, or the husband who beats his wife. 574 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 11: It's also about the guy who is a guru and 575 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 11: he leads you to believe that he needs to do it. 576 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 11: So the abuse has other types of mechanisms that goes 577 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,359 Speaker 11: on and is going on there. I'm sure there is 578 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 11: in the United States, and there is in Latin American 579 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:54,320 Speaker 11: countries and in Europe. No one, unfortunately, is safe from 580 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:55,800 Speaker 11: that kind of abuse. 581 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,920 Speaker 1: It's been a while looking back. How has this impacted 582 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 1: your life and changed you? 583 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,240 Speaker 10: I think it changed my life completely, my profession. 584 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: After breaking the story on converta combial, Camilla Appel was 585 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 1: also compelled to bring more information to the public about 586 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: John of God and his crimes. She worked on a 587 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,880 Speaker 1: longer documentary series about the case for Global highlighting many 588 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: more victims' voices. 589 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 10: The documentary came from the need to answer questions that 590 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,320 Speaker 10: were being made to me and that I couldn't just answer. 591 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 10: I had to show them personally. I think it had 592 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 10: a bad impact on the way I seem. Spiritual leaders, 593 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 10: spiritual healers, and one of the saddest things I've ever 594 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,720 Speaker 10: heard about the victims was that he took away their faith, 595 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 10: their ability to believe and to put their faith in anything. 596 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 10: And I do think I lost a bit of mine, 597 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 10: you know, because it just so terrible what he did 598 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:09,320 Speaker 10: with those women, what everyone did. And I wish, I 599 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 10: do wish sometime I can get it back, get it back, 600 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 10: get my faith back somehow. 601 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: As for the survivors we spoke with, Kamilla r was 602 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: inspired by her experience to become a lawyer and says 603 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 1: her relationship with God is now as strong as ever 604 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 1: it was. 605 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,240 Speaker 7: Such I am a lawyer today. 606 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,760 Speaker 13: I chose to study law because of this, Okay, because 607 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:42,919 Speaker 13: when it came to the judicial sphere, I felt very helpless. 608 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 7: I managed to get through my panic disorder. Today, thank God, 609 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 7: I don't have anything, so I'm cured. 610 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 1: Anna, Paula, and Karina now volunteer to help other survivors 611 00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 1: of sexual abuse to speak out and seek counseling. Karina 612 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 1: now sees red flags in some of the things John 613 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,400 Speaker 1: of God offered his followers, like a sense of belonging 614 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:07,839 Speaker 1: or a community. 615 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 9: I don't want to be a part of any community 616 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,800 Speaker 9: anything whatsoever. No, because a lot of also what I 617 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 9: learned about the so called spiritual followers in people, it's. 618 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 6: Kind of like a little fashion. 619 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,439 Speaker 9: Oh I'm so enlightened that. 620 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:25,280 Speaker 6: I'm so cool. 621 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,720 Speaker 9: I don't have any tolerance for that stuff. 622 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: Karina also believes we shouldn't give so much power to 623 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,880 Speaker 1: any one person or man. Instead, she Ana, Paula, and 624 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 1: Camilla are They all say you should give that power 625 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,720 Speaker 1: to yourself, to your own voice, and don't be afraid 626 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: to use it. 627 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 8: Speak up, seek justice. Your word has power, It has 628 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 8: enormous strength, and to speak up, to be believed. It's liberating. 629 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:05,799 Speaker 14: El start by talking to those who love you, to 630 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,760 Speaker 14: those who will give you the strength to speak up. 631 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,319 Speaker 14: Tell them first, because you will be supported. 632 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 2: In gameticizing any. 633 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,720 Speaker 8: Game, nobody has to go through this alone. 634 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 5: No one almost then. 635 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,560 Speaker 8: And I think that this was a great example for 636 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:32,799 Speaker 8: all of us that together we are much stronger. Because 637 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,840 Speaker 8: I couldn't do it alone my ZIP after I was supported. 638 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 2: But there's a nice CONSI game. 639 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 8: Look at how many people, how many things we achieved together. 640 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:44,960 Speaker 2: Looking nice cosy games there. 641 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:46,800 Speaker 6: Look at who we managed to catch. 642 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,680 Speaker 1: It's a power. They weren't aware they had until after 643 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,919 Speaker 1: John of God's crimes came to light. Now many say 644 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 1: the real power to heal was actually inside them all along. 645 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 8: I don't doubt things that happened there in the house, 646 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,320 Speaker 8: not least because I believe a lot in the faith 647 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 8: of the people who were there with him. They were 648 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:21,480 Speaker 8: there asking emanating positive energiesanus I'm a big believer in that. 649 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:26,360 Speaker 9: I'm a firm believer we can heal our own selves, 650 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,560 Speaker 9: not everybody, but we all have that in us, and 651 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:34,480 Speaker 9: faith moves mountains. A lot of the healing happened because 652 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 9: of faith of the person themselves. 653 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 1: That word again, faith, faith in your own ability to heal, 654 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,960 Speaker 1: in your own strength to fight against all odds to 655 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,920 Speaker 1: tell the truth. Faith in your power to bring justice 656 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,520 Speaker 1: to people who have been wronged. Faith they can make 657 00:42:54,560 --> 00:43:09,880 Speaker 1: you vulnerable or invincible. As we wrap this final episode, 658 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 1: I want to take a moment to personally thank everyone 659 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,880 Speaker 1: who spoke to us for this series. To Christina Roscha 660 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,160 Speaker 1: and Christina Phoebe, whose interviews and books about John of 661 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 1: God greatly informed our reporting to come. He to Appel 662 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,880 Speaker 1: not only for our interview, but for her investigation for 663 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,239 Speaker 1: the Convererza combiald show and for the documentary she later 664 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:33,080 Speaker 1: produced for Globo. To Luciano Miranda for taking the time 665 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,920 Speaker 1: to give us the legal dimension of this historic case 666 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 1: in Brazil. Thank you to Michael Baylott and Amy Bianc, 667 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,880 Speaker 1: the former tour guides who, at great personal risk to themselves, 668 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:49,480 Speaker 1: spoke with me and other journalists to denounce Choau's crimes. Sadly, 669 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:53,520 Speaker 1: Amy Bianc fell ill after our interview and passed away 670 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,480 Speaker 1: in January of twenty twenty five. We honor her memory 671 00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 1: and her bravery in our documentary series and the biggest 672 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:06,240 Speaker 1: of my thanks to survivors Anna, Paula Garna and Camilla 673 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:10,080 Speaker 1: r for choosing to use their voices once more to 674 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:14,800 Speaker 1: hopefully inspire others to use their own, but also to 675 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,520 Speaker 1: remind us of all the ways in which we need 676 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,600 Speaker 1: to keep accountable those we give power in our society. 677 00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,480 Speaker 1: This series would not have been possible without the development, 678 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:30,719 Speaker 1: research and production support of producer Giovanna Romano Sanchez. All 679 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,760 Speaker 1: of our booking and fact checking was executed by journalist 680 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:38,800 Speaker 1: and reporter Luisa Trajano. This series got expert editorial and 681 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:43,120 Speaker 1: production guidance in English and in Spanish from senior producer 682 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,840 Speaker 1: Mariano Baschela. The sound design and score you heard was 683 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:51,760 Speaker 1: meticulously done by Mauricio Mendosa with final mastering by Martin 684 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 1: grus And. The moving original score was written by Brazilian 685 00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:01,000 Speaker 1: composer Mariana Romano, and the amazing voices that interpreted the 686 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:06,040 Speaker 1: Portuguese interviews in English belonged to Andres Gavacheo as Luciano, 687 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:12,480 Speaker 1: Miranda Glaudioias as Marcello Soluto, Giovanna Romano Sanchez as Ana Paula, 688 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:18,080 Speaker 1: and Laura Ubate as Camilla R. The artwork was designed 689 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,640 Speaker 1: and created by Vanessa Lilac. A special thanks to audio 690 00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:27,120 Speaker 1: engineer Guigetomogamis and his studio Gamis Gravaciones in Buenos Aires, Argentina, 691 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,600 Speaker 1: where I recorded all of my narration for this series. 692 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,279 Speaker 1: We worked with such a supportive and insightful team at 693 00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 1: Exactly Right Media. A huge thank you to executive producers 694 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:43,800 Speaker 1: Karen Coilgariff, Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer, with consulting producer 695 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,960 Speaker 1: Lilli Ladowig and associate producer j Elias. Thank you all 696 00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:52,040 Speaker 1: for your trust and partnership. If you want to learn 697 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,520 Speaker 1: more about this story. You can find a list of 698 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,440 Speaker 1: resources in the description of this episode, and you can 699 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,440 Speaker 1: listen to all the episode of Two Faced John of 700 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:05,920 Speaker 1: God on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 701 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,319 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. There you can also find this show 702 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:15,200 Speaker 1: in Espanol, just look for those Goddess Juan Dirios. Thank 703 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:16,200 Speaker 1: you for listening.