Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bobmasu's podcast. My guest
Speaker 1: today is Brinsley Schwartz. Brinsley, good to have you here,
Speaker 1: could be here? What think okay? For the Americans were
Speaker 1: out of the loop? What exactly was pub rock? Easy? Rock?
Speaker 1: Was any music than any band wanted to play in
Speaker 1: a pub. There wasn't as no such thing as a
Speaker 1: a music genre that you could say was pub rock.
Speaker 1: It was just what everybody played. Anybody played in a pub. Okay,
Speaker 1: So then why did it get a label? What was
Speaker 1: different about it from what came before? I was well
Speaker 1: so musically I'd say that the biggest difference between the
Speaker 1: two things was, Hey, you get into words like honest um,
Speaker 1: but pub rock was down to earth, just playing songs.
Speaker 1: And there were no no long sometimes tedious guitar solos
Speaker 1: or keyboard silos or drum solos. He never saw a
Speaker 1: drub solo in a pub, so so much more focused
Speaker 1: on the songs and the and the excitement. The level
Speaker 1: of energy was was higher, The audience was really close
Speaker 1: that they could they could get the vibe and see
Speaker 1: what was going on, much better than bigger bands that
Speaker 1: played in big places and It also provided a place
Speaker 1: for bands that were never going to be able to
Speaker 1: play get up to playing in in big places, somewhere
Speaker 1: to play, and eventually some of them did get up
Speaker 1: to play in big places. So well, let's set the scene,
Speaker 1: let's put it in context. When did pub rock begin? Well,
Speaker 1: so it depends when you when you think it begun.
Speaker 1: Um Eggs Over Easy with the band the first band
Speaker 1: that any of us saw playing in a in a pub.
Speaker 1: They were American from San Francisco area, I believe Um.
Speaker 1: We saw that we we were fed up and playing
Speaker 1: in bigger places, mostly colleges, and the idea of playing
Speaker 1: with an audience in front of you, not having to
Speaker 1: play your set of album songs, you could play whatever
Speaker 1: you wanted appealed. So in the timeline we saw Eggs
Speaker 1: Over Easy. Um. Two weeks later, Oh Dave Robinson, our manager,
Speaker 1: and myself went around pubs in London trying to persuade
Speaker 1: landlords that would be a really good idea to have
Speaker 1: us play in the pub. A lot of them didn't
Speaker 1: didn't get it, but they did get that we would
Speaker 1: play for nothing until until they were making enough money
Speaker 1: to be able to pay us, which so they liked
Speaker 1: that idea, and a few weeks later we were we
Speaker 1: started playing in pubs and pretty pretty soon and it
Speaker 1: went down really well. It's pretty soon there were as
Speaker 1: many people outside as there were inside. It was summer,
Speaker 1: so it was a good time of year to be
Speaker 1: doing it. And pretty soon other other bands joined in,
Speaker 1: got gigs in some of the pubs, and I would say,
Speaker 1: but that that's when it became pub rock. Well that's when,
Speaker 1: roughly when the press took notice and labeled it pub rock. Okay,
Speaker 1: this would be what year for what year did you
Speaker 1: start playing the pubs? Yeah, I would say seventy summer
Speaker 1: of seventy one. Okay, So for those of us who
Speaker 1: are not English, this is in London or did it
Speaker 1: spread throughout the nation? It was it was mostly in London,
Speaker 1: uh and closely around London. But yeah, i'd say it
Speaker 1: was in London. Okay, So we don't have pubs in
Speaker 1: the US. How large would these pubs be? How many
Speaker 1: people could be there when you performed? Um? Probably maybe
Speaker 1: the larger ones could hold hundred fifty two hundred people.
Speaker 1: There was a place, a pub called the Kensington, which
Speaker 1: was had a large mainly road but large paving part outside.
Speaker 1: And I definitely remember going out one very hot summer
Speaker 1: evening and that that section of that square being packed
Speaker 1: of people with people and the inside but so in
Speaker 1: or maybe four hundred people, but mainly I'd stay between
Speaker 1: hundred two hundred like your it's just the same thing.
Speaker 1: And that's states like bars, larger what you called larger bars, okay.
Speaker 1: And how many of these bars were there? How many
Speaker 1: were in the circuit so to speak, um, ten a
Speaker 1: dozen so not many, no, no, not not a lot
Speaker 1: to know. Okay, So when you start playing the pubs,
Speaker 1: do you how frequently do you play? And do you
Speaker 1: play at the same pub or different pubs? We we
Speaker 1: played in maybe four to six different pubs and once
Speaker 1: a week or once a fortnight. So we were you know,
Speaker 1: we were playing just an ordinary amount, but always mostly
Speaker 1: in pubs. And once you established you could generate a crowd,
Speaker 1: how much revenue could you generate, um, fifty per person
Speaker 1: on the door, maybe a hundred pounds, two hundred pounds,
Speaker 1: not a lot of money, okay, it's like it's like
Speaker 1: it is now. We don't do this for the money.
Speaker 1: We do it because it's fun. That's that's how it
Speaker 1: how it was. We weren't really looking for anything else.
Speaker 1: We just wanted to play. Okay, so Dave Robinson Jermana joing.
Speaker 1: At this point the act is called Brinsley Schwartz. Do
Speaker 1: you say Schwarz with the te or without the tea?
Speaker 1: Now we say it with the T, but it's it
Speaker 1: rhymes with hearts. It's Prinsley Schwartz, not princely Schwartz. One
Speaker 1: more time, I gotta how do you pronounce it? Schwartz?
Speaker 1: Swats so it rhymes with huts. I got it. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to you know, It's like in the UK, Ray
Speaker 1: it's Ray Davis, and here it's Ray Davies. But we'll
Speaker 1: soldier forward. So who's who's in the man Brinsley Schwartz
Speaker 1: at this point myself, Nickla, Bob Andrews, Billy Rankin in gone.
Speaker 1: So that's the five of us. Okay, let's let's go
Speaker 1: back a little bit further when okay, where do you
Speaker 1: grow up? Sorry? Where did I grow up? Yeah? Mostly
Speaker 1: in a place called Tunbridge Wells, which is in Kent,
Speaker 1: or or in villages around. We moved quite a lot,
Speaker 1: but never a long way. So around Tumbridge Wells yeah,
Speaker 1: the south southeast corner. How far from London thirty five?
Speaker 1: And did you go into London a lot or were
Speaker 1: you living like in the country mentally? Um M, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: we went into into London a lot. By the time
Speaker 1: pub Rockets started we were living as a band together
Speaker 1: in a house in a place called Northward, which was
Speaker 1: northwest London. So as the as the debacle in nine
Speaker 1: seventy started, we all moved into London and lived pretty
Speaker 1: much in London. Okay, so let's go back. You're moving around.
Speaker 1: Why are you moving around as a family so much?
Speaker 1: My parents moved along. We we were we were a
Speaker 1: house to do a rothers. They bought houses, we fixed
Speaker 1: them up in the holidays. After a couple of years
Speaker 1: we dined again. And was that Was that their main
Speaker 1: means of employment or did the outside jobs? Now? My
Speaker 1: my father was a school teacher in a in a
Speaker 1: private school, which is the opposite to yours. You would
Speaker 1: call it a public school. Yes, And how many kids
Speaker 1: in the family just too then? Which were you the older,
Speaker 1: the younger, the older? Whatever happened with the younger? Um,
Speaker 1: she got married and moved away. She's she's now living
Speaker 1: in Scotland with a second husband. Okay, so you're growing up,
Speaker 1: when do you get exposed to music and excited about music?
Speaker 1: I think pre pre Elvis, I can remember, so I
Speaker 1: have to dig dig into memories. I remember a record
Speaker 1: called Green Door, which I have no idea Who's who's
Speaker 1: saying that Frankie, Frankie somebody, Frankie Vaughn maybe um. And
Speaker 1: that that's the first record that I I said I
Speaker 1: heard as a record. But pretty soon after that I
Speaker 1: was listening to Elvis Presley and then all of the
Speaker 1: late fifties and early sixties music. And the real turning
Speaker 1: point was when I heard a tune called Patche which
Speaker 1: was performed by a band called the show Days m
Speaker 1: And that is why why I wanted to be a
Speaker 1: guitar player. Okay, so how did you hear these records
Speaker 1: on the radio? Did you buy the records on the radio?
Speaker 1: Mostly historically we've learned that radio was very controlled in
Speaker 1: the UK with the BBC, and people would listen to
Speaker 1: Radio Luxembourg Radio Caroline, what was your experience that well,
Speaker 1: that Radio Luxembourg Radio carry on a bit later later
Speaker 1: than this, but yes, it most most radio was by
Speaker 1: the BBC, and they were very strict um rules about
Speaker 1: what could be played and what couldn't be played. And
Speaker 1: it wasn't until the pirate radio stations started up that
Speaker 1: we started to hear music from from the from more
Speaker 1: from the States um that we hadn't had a chance
Speaker 1: to to hear in England. Now, Liverpool was a dark
Speaker 1: city and they say that the sailors came in with
Speaker 1: blues records and that influenced the scene. There was that
Speaker 1: only in Liverpool. Was it also where you were or
Speaker 1: in the Kent area It wasn't. It wasn't in the
Speaker 1: Kent area. The top forty was probably in stock in
Speaker 1: the late local record store. Um it was. It was
Speaker 1: very very young and and unworldly or experiences at that time.
Speaker 1: It was a long time before I heard of blues record.
Speaker 1: I don't remember which the first had a friend and
Speaker 1: older friend who there was a guitar player who who
Speaker 1: got me around to his place one day said listened
Speaker 1: to this and put on John mel Male Blues Breaker
Speaker 1: album and that was probably the first time I heard
Speaker 1: a blues record. And and I remember I remember listening
Speaker 1: to Albert king In in the local records store. You
Speaker 1: could go into a booze. That happened in the States too.
Speaker 1: You could get into a booth and if there was
Speaker 1: no one in the store, they just played the record
Speaker 1: for you. And so I used to do that. Um okay,
Speaker 1: so you hear you hear apache tell me about picking
Speaker 1: up an instrument and playing. Um. I hustled my parents.
Speaker 1: They gave me a classical guitar for my birthday and
Speaker 1: I just wanted to play a patty. I learned that
Speaker 1: by myself without and they just from the tune figured
Speaker 1: out some chords. And I've got a book called Five
Speaker 1: Common Chords, which was which was a bad book to
Speaker 1: get because it showed you every chord in all of
Speaker 1: its inversions, and so every chord was a different poet
Speaker 1: in your head, but really they were all the same,
Speaker 1: just moved up and down the fingerboard. It was an
Speaker 1: actually much easier thing to learn to play guitar than
Speaker 1: a lot of other instruments, which I tried to play
Speaker 1: later on. And if you started with the book, do
Speaker 1: you know how to read music? No? So I did
Speaker 1: younger at school. I think I got to grade four piano,
Speaker 1: Grade four it's called in this country. So I could
Speaker 1: read music, but once I started playing guitar, I found
Speaker 1: that I could I knew what was coming next and
Speaker 1: where it was quicker than I could read it off
Speaker 1: the of the page. So I ended up really learning
Speaker 1: everything by ear. So you never took a lesson. Much
Speaker 1: later on I took I did some lessons when when
Speaker 1: some guitar dam is opened up in London that would
Speaker 1: have been in the in the eighties, I guess and
Speaker 1: I went to some of that. And what were you
Speaker 1: learning to learn and searching to learn and what did
Speaker 1: you actually learn? Um? I guess I was searching to
Speaker 1: learn steely Den chords and parts. I did learn the
Speaker 1: solo to here's a memory stuff. Uh, well it's a
Speaker 1: major Larry Carlton solo on a on the steely Den charm. So, um,
Speaker 1: when do you get an electric guitar? Um? Well, this
Speaker 1: is where helping my father was with the doing up
Speaker 1: the house was. I got a shilling a day that's
Speaker 1: ten cents maybe maybe it's about ten twelve cents um
Speaker 1: for helping, for which I had to do things like
Speaker 1: crawl under the floorboards to pull the electricity cables through.
Speaker 1: Do you know that spiders are white and alive? When
Speaker 1: they're underneath floorboards. Um. And I got enough money to
Speaker 1: buy a an electric guitar. But when I went to
Speaker 1: to buy one, I thought I knew what it was
Speaker 1: that I wanted. My eye settled on something different, and
Speaker 1: my parents very kindly paid difference for me. So I
Speaker 1: got a half decent electric guitar, which was what it
Speaker 1: was called a Oftener color Rama. It was red and
Speaker 1: looked like the guitar that Hank Martin as the Shadows used,
Speaker 1: and that was good enough for me. And what about
Speaker 1: an amplifier? Yeah, I just got a little one and
Speaker 1: I it had vowels in it, but I didn't really
Speaker 1: know what that meant and important it was until much
Speaker 1: later later on. Okay, So you're playing and at this
Speaker 1: point your hold okay, and at what point do you say, hey,
Speaker 1: I want to play with others? And what happens? Um?
Speaker 1: When I when I left school, I left school at eighteen, Um,
Speaker 1: I didn't want to go to university, although I had
Speaker 1: a place. I wanted to be a guitar player. What
Speaker 1: before we get there, you never played in a group
Speaker 1: or anything in high school or you know whatever, your
Speaker 1: secondary school. Yeah, okay, in my so this is part
Speaker 1: of part of my time that I don't think about
Speaker 1: too much. I went to a boarding school when I
Speaker 1: was fourteen and we had a band. We used to
Speaker 1: sneak out underneath play underneath the stage in the hall
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. Um. There were six
Speaker 1: of us. We were sounds, four plus two. We didn't
Speaker 1: really know what we were doing, but it was a
Speaker 1: lot of fun and I guess part of it was
Speaker 1: sneaking out at night in the middle of the night
Speaker 1: to smoke cigarettes, drink cider and play underneath the hall.
Speaker 1: But we did go. Nicklay's father was an r af
Speaker 1: UM commander and in Germany and we went to uh
Speaker 1: We went there to play for the for the kids,
Speaker 1: and we were all fifteen sixteen, so I think we
Speaker 1: played five shows. We traveled in my My parents had
Speaker 1: a sleeper bus and yeah, we all piled in with
Speaker 1: it to amplifiers and a snare drum. I went and played.
Speaker 1: That was the only time that I had played before
Speaker 1: leaving school. And do you remember what the material was? Yeah,
Speaker 1: any rock and roll song that we could sing, one
Speaker 1: of us who could sing could put together. Although we
Speaker 1: did we played a lot of Beatles. I remember playing
Speaker 1: you really got me and thinking, well this is fabulous.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that kind of said what we would call
Speaker 1: pop music in England. Okay, did music bring it together
Speaker 1: with Nick Low? Or were you friends before that and
Speaker 1: music brought us to get together? We were two years
Speaker 1: apart in school and you didn't mess with people two
Speaker 1: years apart. So how did you actually cook up with Nick?
Speaker 1: I think we're people were talking one day and we
Speaker 1: all ended up with in the in the room under
Speaker 1: the stage, in the in the hall, and that's that's
Speaker 1: kind of how it started. It was he always a
Speaker 1: bass player or did that just you know we needed
Speaker 1: a bass player in the band. No, it wasn't. I
Speaker 1: think he had a base by the time we went
Speaker 1: and played in Germany. But but before before then he
Speaker 1: had a had along I think probably a bit of
Speaker 1: a clothes line, like plastic lines um sort of broomstick
Speaker 1: and a packing case and and just plucked at it.
Speaker 1: We were all just whatever we had. We just wanted
Speaker 1: to do be in this and and so we did
Speaker 1: what we could. The Beatles hit in sixty two. What
Speaker 1: was it like when the Beatles hit you were still
Speaker 1: in secondary school? It was m hm, it was it
Speaker 1: was everything that was wildly exciting. Um, it was all
Speaker 1: people would talk about. The the anticipation for the next
Speaker 1: single was was was massive? Um, yeah, it was. It
Speaker 1: was a turning point for the as it turned out,
Speaker 1: for the world. I would say, right, but you were
Speaker 1: a couple of years ahead of us in the UK
Speaker 1: and all these other acts that we consider to be
Speaker 1: the British invasion in the US. You know, the ones
Speaker 1: from Liverpool and then you have the Kinks. What was
Speaker 1: it like having that scene in the UK? Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just it was just it was it was
Speaker 1: almost everything that we thought about that I guess. I
Speaker 1: guess we thought about football as as well and girls,
Speaker 1: but otherwise it was it was the music. It's what
Speaker 1: everybody was interested in. All the hangouts in record stores
Speaker 1: and well, right, I was never allowed to go to
Speaker 1: a coffee shop, but I guess a coffee bar as
Speaker 1: they were called. Then that's what we talked about. That
Speaker 1: overtook movies and things like that as the main event.
Speaker 1: It was wildly exciting. Okay, you graduate from what we
Speaker 1: call high school, you decide you don't want to go
Speaker 1: to college. Your father is a teacher, what does he
Speaker 1: have to say about that? He's not happy. Neither of
Speaker 1: my parents are happy, but they could see that it
Speaker 1: was what I wanted to do, and they came up
Speaker 1: with an offer that they would take care of me
Speaker 1: vie if I got any money. I contributed part of
Speaker 1: it to the running of the household and I had
Speaker 1: a year and if I didn't it didn't succeed. After
Speaker 1: a year, then I was either out of out of
Speaker 1: my own or UM gone toinun of city. So they
Speaker 1: looked after me for a for a year, probably longer
Speaker 1: in the end. So what happened in that year? In
Speaker 1: that year somebody somebody knocked on the door or or
Speaker 1: telephoned me. I think they knocked on the door or
Speaker 1: either that or somebody knew my mother UM, and a
Speaker 1: word got sent down a line somewhere, and this guy
Speaker 1: whose name was Dave Cottam turned up and said, I
Speaker 1: hear you play guitar and can sing. Do you want
Speaker 1: to be in a band, to which I said yes.
Speaker 1: So that band came known as three as a Crowd
Speaker 1: and which later turned into Cypington Lodge and we eventually
Speaker 1: made singles for Am I or Parlophone UM. And that
Speaker 1: that was. That was the beginning of what I would
Speaker 1: call a career. Wh Okay, how long after we've calls
Speaker 1: you are you making records for EM? I must must
Speaker 1: be a year, a year, a year and a half
Speaker 1: something like that. A long time and you're still living
Speaker 1: at home? What are you? You know? What are you
Speaker 1: living on? Financially? Very little? Hardly anything at all? Really?
Speaker 1: So how does the band get a deal with the
Speaker 1: m I we h A guy asked to manage us?
Speaker 1: Saw us playing somewhere, asked the manager as we said, okay,
Speaker 1: and he got he got the deal. Um, I think
Speaker 1: they paid for us to do a couple of demos
Speaker 1: and and he carted those around the record labels and
Speaker 1: we ended up getting a deal for five singles, which
Speaker 1: we ended up doing. So what happened with kippington Um?
Speaker 1: We made? We made five singles? People change, We became
Speaker 1: an left so that the drama who was the last
Speaker 1: person to leave, he left and week that's where we
Speaker 1: got when we got Billy ranking in Um the bass
Speaker 1: player whose band it was in the start, he left
Speaker 1: because he wanted to play soul music and we didn't. UM.
Speaker 1: That's when Nick joined UH and then and then we
Speaker 1: decided we needed an organ player, and that's where Barry
Speaker 1: Landerman came, who was at the same school as Nick
Speaker 1: and myself. So basically I phoned around people that I've
Speaker 1: been at school with and said you want to join
Speaker 1: a band? And people did and so um and then
Speaker 1: in the end Barry left. He went and played with
Speaker 1: a real pop group called Vanity Fair and and then
Speaker 1: we had we advertised and found Bob Andrews. Okay, what
Speaker 1: was Nick doing? We've were you called them? I have
Speaker 1: no I have no idea, but see, obviously nothing that
Speaker 1: important because he just jumped at the chance and and
Speaker 1: came down. Okay, when is it goal? From Kippington Lane
Speaker 1: to Brindsley s Keypington Lodge that there was Commington Lodge
Speaker 1: somewhere somewhere in the middle of that appears, so the
Speaker 1: four and after so I guess sometime in sixty six
Speaker 1: days or sixty nine um, and yeah, they showed the
Speaker 1: other three chose the name. Okay, okay, let's stop. The
Speaker 1: name ends up being your name, Brinsley Shot, how does
Speaker 1: that happen? We agreed that that Keypington Lodge was not
Speaker 1: a good name and that we should leave that behind
Speaker 1: and all that it had meant um, and we were
Speaker 1: going to write down or suggested names, get together and
Speaker 1: pick them one at a time and choose one. Uh.
Speaker 1: And when that was due to happen on the Sunday,
Speaker 1: I think, And when I turned up at Nick and
Speaker 1: Bob's flat, they said, no, need to do that, We've
Speaker 1: chosen already and they told me and I thought, oh no,
Speaker 1: that's not pretty good, and but they said they were adamant.
Speaker 1: So that's how I happen. Well, there's a benefit to
Speaker 1: the p and being your name. And I'm sure all
Speaker 1: this all this time later because of the recognition, you're
Speaker 1: probably happy. Yeah. I didn't. I didn't think about it
Speaker 1: much after that, you know, I just complained and then said, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: let's do that. Okay, it's keeping in livee. You made
Speaker 1: the five records for you, am I. The band keeps
Speaker 1: morphing now, as Brinsley shots what happens then? Um, we
Speaker 1: saw an adverse in the Melody Maker, which was the
Speaker 1: main music magazine of the time, UM, advertising for a
Speaker 1: band that had their own equipment and wrote songs. And
Speaker 1: we did have our own equipment and we did write songs.
Speaker 1: So we called up the person turned up to Dave
Speaker 1: Robinson who came down to Tombridge Wells and saw us play.
Speaker 1: We went to for a few meals, mostly Indian meals
Speaker 1: with him. He told lots of great stories about stuff
Speaker 1: and we agreed to let him manage us. In reality,
Speaker 1: what did he have going on when he was courting you? Um,
Speaker 1: he didn't have very much going on. He was his company,
Speaker 1: which was just him basically was involved with a small
Speaker 1: group of companies of small companies who were involved in
Speaker 1: the payment business. Although Forbidden Fruit who are clothes story
Speaker 1: up in London, it was one of them. There was
Speaker 1: a little film film company um and an album cover
Speaker 1: designer Barney Bubbles, who went on to do quite a
Speaker 1: lot and that was overseen by by this money man
Speaker 1: and so Apart from wowing us with stories about about
Speaker 1: Hendricks and touring and various other things, his idea was
Speaker 1: for us to play and and move up the ladder,
Speaker 1: play the right gigs and trying to move up up
Speaker 1: the ladder, playing bigger places and on tours with people
Speaker 1: with big bands. Okay, tell me about Dave Robinson. Weltimately
Speaker 1: goes on to form Stiff Records and he continues to
Speaker 1: be a manager. What was he like Was he a
Speaker 1: force of nature? Was he lucky? Was he was a
Speaker 1: force of nature? Definitely? Did? Do you know the story
Speaker 1: of how he got us at the gig, at the
Speaker 1: film or east? No? But are we jumping ahead? I
Speaker 1: know that, I mean, I want to hear you tell
Speaker 1: the story. But let's go a little bit slower. So
Speaker 1: you're playing, You're playing around, the band has your name.
Speaker 1: What ultimately happens UM It comes to a point where
Speaker 1: we realized that, uh, it's just not going to go
Speaker 1: anywhere unless we do something that we do something out
Speaker 1: of the ordinary or something big enough to get the
Speaker 1: attention of any kind of record label. It was not
Speaker 1: very easy to get on even if you had a manager,
Speaker 1: it was not easy to get to get on UM.
Speaker 1: So we decided that we'd go the route of trying
Speaker 1: to to do something that would catch attention. And the
Speaker 1: question was put to the other member the other companies
Speaker 1: that were involved in the in the group of companies,
Speaker 1: and they came up with some pretty bizarre ideas, but
Speaker 1: the one that stuck was that we would we would.
Speaker 1: It's like a circle that you have to close all
Speaker 1: of the all of the things at the same time.
Speaker 1: So we would get a major gig in the United States,
Speaker 1: we could get a record company and a songwriting deal
Speaker 1: so that we could pay for transporting press music press
Speaker 1: from around the world to see us play at at
Speaker 1: whatever gig it was. So we dave I did. Had
Speaker 1: to get the gig on a promise, had to get
Speaker 1: the called company on a promise, and so on and
Speaker 1: close the wall at the same pretty much at the
Speaker 1: same time, which he which he did. Um, and that's
Speaker 1: what we were set about doing. Well, that's what he
Speaker 1: set about doing. So how did it play out? Um? Well?
Speaker 1: So now now is there right to tell the story
Speaker 1: about how he got us the gig? Friday afternoon in London,
Speaker 1: he calls up and hearing names again, he's list with names.
Speaker 1: Who was it that owned or ran ah those two
Speaker 1: gigs on the West coast of Bill Graham? Bill Graham.
Speaker 1: So he calls up Bill Graham's office, gets to speak
Speaker 1: to Bill. Bill Graham says, I have a I have
Speaker 1: a band, we have a we have a record deal,
Speaker 1: and we want to fly the world's press to come
Speaker 1: and see the band playing at the film Warriors. Bill
Speaker 1: Graham thinks that I got a crazy guy on the
Speaker 1: phone and says to Dave, Okay, send me the tape
Speaker 1: and I'll see what we can do, and puts the
Speaker 1: phone down and forgets all about us Dave. Dave gets
Speaker 1: books a flight to San Francisco. I guess he was.
Speaker 1: He was in And on Monday morning, when Bill Graham
Speaker 1: comes into his office, David sitting in his office with
Speaker 1: the tape. Um Bill Graham says, hello, who are you?
Speaker 1: What can I do? Okay? So I called you on Friday.
Speaker 1: I've got a band, We've got a record deal. We
Speaker 1: want to fly the world's press to see them play
Speaker 1: at the film War East. And I brought the tape.
Speaker 1: You asked for the tape. Here it is. Bill gram said,
Speaker 1: it's okay, I don't need the tape. You've got the game.
Speaker 1: And that's how That's how Dave Romson did stuff. He
Speaker 1: was a force of nature. You didn't say no, go
Speaker 1: away at that point. Um so so yes, so we
Speaker 1: got the gig, and I do want the whole story.
Speaker 1: It goes on forever, okay. So I can only set
Speaker 1: it from my my point of view. I know there's
Speaker 1: lots of stuff out there that there's been a book
Speaker 1: or books written. I haven't read very much of any
Speaker 1: of them. Um, you know I was, I was there.
Speaker 1: Really the book kind of boring. Um, So Dave tired
Speaker 1: start at the beginning for the press. Here he got
Speaker 1: all the pressed together. UM, who thought should come and
Speaker 1: and rented a plane from air lingus. He was irish,
Speaker 1: so maybe he had a few strings to pull. Um,
Speaker 1: which was supposed to take the press from heath Row
Speaker 1: to Kennedy. Um. He sorted out visa applications. We had
Speaker 1: an exchange band. In those days, the musicians unions of
Speaker 1: both countries had to agree before any visa could be granted,
Speaker 1: so our musicians you had to to vet us and
Speaker 1: make sure that there was another band from the States
Speaker 1: coming to take our place, and vice versa. The band
Speaker 1: that was chosen was Love, and I'm going to forget
Speaker 1: the guy's name again. Who was the singer in Love? Arthur?
Speaker 1: He developed laryngoitus a few days before the visas were
Speaker 1: supposed to be done, so they're canceled the tour, which
Speaker 1: meant that we didn't have an exchange band, which meant
Speaker 1: we couldn't get visas. And we found this out less
Speaker 1: than a week before we well actually less than a
Speaker 1: less than two days before we were supposed to golf
Speaker 1: and go to New York. In New York, we were
Speaker 1: supposed to have three days rehearsal at the former East
Speaker 1: with with our requested gear, some of our own, but
Speaker 1: some hired our requested gear, and we were supposed to
Speaker 1: what we did buy or arrange for the front three
Speaker 1: rows to be available for our press guests. The film
Speaker 1: or East had had a deal where you could only
Speaker 1: use cameras in the building up until a certain time,
Speaker 1: and that was agreed upon so that our drummer, Billy
Speaker 1: he was. He had an American and an English passport,
Speaker 1: so he didn't have a problem. He got his visa
Speaker 1: and on the Tuesday morning before we were supposed to play,
Speaker 1: he flew to to the States, um as I remember it.
Speaker 1: When we eventually managed to meet up again, he told
Speaker 1: us that he had a limousine, came up from the airport,
Speaker 1: drove into a hotel in Manhattan and settled him into
Speaker 1: his room. The driver gave him his room number and said,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm for you at any time, day or night
Speaker 1: you want to go somewhere, you want to do something,
Speaker 1: just give me a call and I'll be there in
Speaker 1: ten minutes. So Billy says great because his room, tries
Speaker 1: to relax as Jed lagged a bit freaked out because
Speaker 1: he's by himself and where God knows where. He doesn't
Speaker 1: know where we are, but at this point and so
Speaker 1: he said in the after half an forty minutes and
Speaker 1: decides he's going to go out, so it calls up
Speaker 1: the driver. The driver says, no problem, meet me outside
Speaker 1: the front in ten minutes. Billy goes down waiting. There's
Speaker 1: a guy standing along the pavement from him, also looks
Speaker 1: like he's waiting for something. A car pulls up, two
Speaker 1: guys jump out, run across to the guy that's standing
Speaker 1: there to billion nice hmendous stomach. Okay, this is this
Speaker 1: is not the good news for Billy goes back to
Speaker 1: his his room where he stays pretty much for the
Speaker 1: for the remaining three days until we turn up. So
Speaker 1: that that was that's his story. Dave says to us, Okay,
Speaker 1: we've been refused visas. So we applied, but we're refused.
Speaker 1: Um And says we'll go to Canada. We'll go to
Speaker 1: Toronto and get visas there. They won't know that we've
Speaker 1: been turned down. Here, it'll be it'll be easy. So
Speaker 1: we get on the first flight to Toronto, check into
Speaker 1: a hotel, go down to the American Embassy and fill
Speaker 1: in the forms for visas to the United States. And
Speaker 1: there's a question on the forms that says, have you
Speaker 1: ever been refused a visa to the United States from
Speaker 1: any country? So I think I got there first and
Speaker 1: said today, what do we do about this question? Dave?
Speaker 1: He says, just say no. So I said no, we
Speaker 1: all did that. We filled them inside them off, took
Speaker 1: them up to this guy who who was an all American.
Speaker 1: That's that's what I'll say about him. He took them.
Speaker 1: He didn't like us. We had long hair. And you know,
Speaker 1: this was then. It's different from very different from now. Um.
Speaker 1: He took them and it was lunchtime. He said, come
Speaker 1: back after lunch and you're you know, you'll have your papers.
Speaker 1: So when we went back, we we got called the
Speaker 1: same guy. He said, you guys think I'm that we're
Speaker 1: crazy here. I've got a million dollar computer behind me
Speaker 1: that tells me that you were refused visas to the
Speaker 1: United States just a day ago in London. And we
Speaker 1: said yeah, mumblement, And he said and I so I
Speaker 1: remember this, this is this is a quote. You guys
Speaker 1: want to go to the US of A. You got
Speaker 1: no chance, At which point he threw our papers at
Speaker 1: us and we left told between the legs and oh dear,
Speaker 1: what do we do now? So then we all went
Speaker 1: back to the hotel. We had a day visa to
Speaker 1: stay in Canada, so we didn't go out. But these
Speaker 1: chances are we run into a policeman and get caught
Speaker 1: for crossing the road where we shouldn't or something like that,
Speaker 1: and they'd want to see our papers, and then we
Speaker 1: get extradited. So we stayed in the hotel while Dave
Speaker 1: went out with our record company are Canadian record company
Speaker 1: guy who was great, supplied all kinds of we said
Speaker 1: we needed were pretty much eight burgers and watched our trek.
Speaker 1: You m in the hotel and Dave was out trying UM.
Speaker 1: So I believe I believe a senator or someone high
Speaker 1: up handled the deal for us, got us waved through.
Speaker 1: And so on Friday, so the first gig, first set
Speaker 1: was Friday evening at seven o'clock. So Friday, just before lunch,
Speaker 1: we turned up at the American Embassy, still in the
Speaker 1: forms say yes to the dread question and hand them
Speaker 1: in to the same guy who's not happy because he
Speaker 1: knows that he's got to pass us. Um and he
Speaker 1: really doesn't like this now. Um. So at half past
Speaker 1: twelve he comes out from from the back and puts
Speaker 1: a pile of papers which looked very much like our
Speaker 1: three visa application forms with our passports on the on
Speaker 1: the counter in front of him, and then goes to lunch.
Speaker 1: He comes back about hot past one and calls us
Speaker 1: over and pushes the papers and visa to us without
Speaker 1: saying a word. We take them, say thank you very much, uh,
Speaker 1: and and go. And in that hour a ground crew
Speaker 1: strike on the northeast coast in the United States is
Speaker 1: IS is announced and there are no flight to or
Speaker 1: from um. So we hire a private little plane five
Speaker 1: Caesar Cessna. I think it was flown by a Japanese
Speaker 1: Canadian who who was an agile flyer. I'll say he
Speaker 1: he threw the plane across the sky quite a lot. Um.
Speaker 1: I have a problem. I still have the same problem
Speaker 1: as when I go up in a plane and my
Speaker 1: ears pot they don't put, you know, the other way
Speaker 1: around when I come down. So I came down. I
Speaker 1: can't here very much. Um, and they hurt. So this
Speaker 1: was I don't know what are their little planes fly
Speaker 1: up for eight thousand feet so they were popping both
Speaker 1: ways all the time. And by the time I got
Speaker 1: I got well on the way. We landed at Buffalo
Speaker 1: and we said, well, what's happening and he says, okay, passports.
Speaker 1: So we all got our passports out, our precious visas
Speaker 1: in them and hand them over. He said, no, I
Speaker 1: don't need this. I just say, you're American businessmen going home.
Speaker 1: So we didn't need a visa. As it turns out
Speaker 1: there's a back door in to Toronto. Um. But so
Speaker 1: so then we took off and then we landed and
Speaker 1: I'm this is guesswork now, but I'd say around six o'clock,
Speaker 1: five thirties, six o'clock in some field. It was just
Speaker 1: a field. It didn't seem like an airport at all,
Speaker 1: but but we landed in it. There were there were
Speaker 1: four limousines, one each, one for day, one for the
Speaker 1: three of us. My guy I got in. He was
Speaker 1: playing the best music I've I've ever heard, handed me
Speaker 1: the requirements and and drove drove me in in in
Speaker 1: the key with the others a little limousine cavalcade. Um.
Speaker 1: And the thing that struck me, the great thing that
Speaker 1: struck me was that the DJ playing the music, which
Speaker 1: was or you know, all of the good stuff Van Morrison,
Speaker 1: Motown Hendrick. Yeah, just really good, properly music. And he
Speaker 1: didn't say where. The DJ didn't say a word until
Speaker 1: the half hour came, at which point he said, you
Speaker 1: just listened to and read out all the names, and
Speaker 1: then started playing the next half hours worth of music,
Speaker 1: which was in this country DJs, you know, they seem
Speaker 1: to think that the radio show is is their vehicle
Speaker 1: to stardom in some way. You know, it's not. It's
Speaker 1: not to do and play music for people. And they
Speaker 1: always talk over the outros where some of the quite
Speaker 1: often some of the good stuff is sit sitting and refers. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I thought he it was great to hear that. Um.
Speaker 1: I think by the time we got in the dressing
Speaker 1: room it was quarter to seven, so we put on
Speaker 1: our stage clothes, got the guitars out and went and
Speaker 1: played the first sect, which was not very good, very disjointed.
Speaker 1: I'd hear anything, so I had to read people's lips
Speaker 1: to see where we were in the songs some of
Speaker 1: the time it was it was not good. The second show,
Speaker 1: I don't know what I say. The next thing we
Speaker 1: did was we went to the to the dressing room
Speaker 1: and Nick went downstairs to to watch, and the rest
Speaker 1: of the stayed up there. And after ten minutes and
Speaker 1: so Nick turned up and said, Okay, you've all got
Speaker 1: to come down and watch this. This is astonishing. So
Speaker 1: we're all pretty shattered by this point, but we all
Speaker 1: went downstairs and watched Dan Morrison, who was blindingly good.
Speaker 1: The band were blindingly good, and he was two. It
Speaker 1: was amazing, and that one show was enough where we
Speaker 1: saw him three more times, but that one show was
Speaker 1: enough change our minds about quite a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: in the what we wanted to be like, what we
Speaker 1: wanted to play, what was important to us um and
Speaker 1: then we played. We played the other shows. The the
Speaker 1: press had a dreadful time. The plane was late because
Speaker 1: it had problems taking off from Shannon Airport. It had
Speaker 1: to be fixed that he throw, and those days that
Speaker 1: he throw if he went past the passport check. There
Speaker 1: was only one thing and that was a bar which
Speaker 1: when as the plane was four hours late, the press
Speaker 1: utilized AH quite a lot. Uh. Then they they took
Speaker 1: off and developed landing geve fault and had to land
Speaker 1: at Shannon Airport and the only thing there is a bar.
Speaker 1: They only do two types of drink or then they
Speaker 1: needed two jobs and that was guinness and an Irish whiskey.
Speaker 1: And so when they finally managed to to make the
Speaker 1: journey and land late at this point at Kennedy, they
Speaker 1: were pretty wasted bunch. And because they were late, there
Speaker 1: was the plane was supposed to arrive sort of midday
Speaker 1: ish where the traffic wouldn't be too bad, but instead
Speaker 1: they arrived just as the as the Russia started it.
Speaker 1: So I think they were eighteen stretched limas to take
Speaker 1: them to the to the hotel potentially, but ended up
Speaker 1: to the to the gear uh and sitting police on motorbikes.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of sirens and stuff going on
Speaker 1: UM and I think three of them crashed and didn't
Speaker 1: make it, and and the ones that did while half
Speaker 1: of them went back to the hotel because they were
Speaker 1: so shattered they just wanted to get to bed, so
Speaker 1: they never even came. By the time they arrived, the
Speaker 1: camera UM rule had had come into operation. No cameras
Speaker 1: after a certain time. They were after a certain time. Um,
Speaker 1: they'd opened the doors, so the public went in there
Speaker 1: when no nobody's sitting in the front three rows. So
Speaker 1: the public just used went and sat in the front
Speaker 1: three roads. So when the press arrived, their place at
Speaker 1: the front had been had been taken. There were lots
Speaker 1: of camera men, so they were refused entry with their cameras.
Speaker 1: I know a couple of them had their cameras smashed
Speaker 1: with complained and and they who ever got in, I
Speaker 1: don't know how many. How many of them did get in,
Speaker 1: they just had to sit where they could find a seat.
Speaker 1: And we knew that they were they were there, but
Speaker 1: we also knew that there had been a problem that
Speaker 1: had not been kept away from us, and so we
Speaker 1: went We went out not knowing what, you know, who
Speaker 1: was there, what was going to happen the front three
Speaker 1: rosere people or are they just people? And so we
Speaker 1: we saw they were just people. Um, And that was
Speaker 1: the worst of the four gigs that we played. We
Speaker 1: were stiff, I'm together and really really nervous. Uh. The
Speaker 1: fourth gig was it was all over. So he really
Speaker 1: didn't care anymore and really played quite well, and and
Speaker 1: things things like occasional solos or or question answer bits
Speaker 1: in the in the music were applauded people. Some people
Speaker 1: whooped and kind of thing. And we used to do
Speaker 1: us a little country is song called rock and Roll Women,
Speaker 1: which is which was humorous um, and people laughed, so
Speaker 1: it went. It went much better. Um. When we got back,
Speaker 1: we spent another day and a half I think, taking
Speaker 1: photographs and stuff, and Rumson turned up again. We went
Speaker 1: to is Riker's Island. Not allowed. Yeah, you're not allowed
Speaker 1: to go there. We didn't know you weren't allowed, and
Speaker 1: just drove on there and hung around and took pictures stuff,
Speaker 1: and the police came. And there's a great photo of
Speaker 1: that that Dave has of him with his with his
Speaker 1: one hand on his head talking to a New York
Speaker 1: policeman who's got his hand on his gun. Um. And
Speaker 1: and you know they were going to haul us off
Speaker 1: until they found out the a that we were English
Speaker 1: and be that we were a pop band and so
Speaker 1: knew nothing of not being allowed on Writer's Island, and
Speaker 1: they said, hey, that's called you got a new records.
Speaker 1: So yeah, um, but that was Dave again. Dave put
Speaker 1: in a situation where his band were out to be
Speaker 1: arrested at gunpoint, um and turning it all good within
Speaker 1: ten minutes. It was he was so good at that. Okay,
Speaker 1: So despite the debarcle, you end up making five records
Speaker 1: as Brimley Shots. Okay, how do you ultimately call it?
Speaker 1: Quit there and go to work with Graham Parker? Well,
Speaker 1: the two are not are not are not aligned in
Speaker 1: any way that their separate things. So the band Van
Speaker 1: quick Nick called it. And you know, I was quite
Speaker 1: shocked at the time. Um, we'd lived together for nine
Speaker 1: on five years and done everything together and been through
Speaker 1: you know, what you could call hell and high water.
Speaker 1: There was no violence involved, but we've we've been through
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. Um, And so I was, I
Speaker 1: was surprised our own reflection, and I guess I shouldn't
Speaker 1: have been really a bit. We've been treading water for
Speaker 1: a year or so. Um. So so we broke up.
Speaker 1: We didn't have anything. We were living in a rented
Speaker 1: farmhouse and northwestern of London, and all we had was
Speaker 1: our gear and we had a monster p A. So
Speaker 1: we all took a piece and and went our our way. Um.
Speaker 1: I took my family or we tried. We tried squatting
Speaker 1: and got kicked out pretty quit and so I we
Speaker 1: ended up again to stay with my parents. When you
Speaker 1: say we are you married at this point? What was
Speaker 1: going on? Married with two children? And what do you
Speaker 1: living on stuff from? We have a long time and
Speaker 1: we've had a place called the ox Fam Shop, which
Speaker 1: is second hand for charity. Sure, so you could buy
Speaker 1: you a pair of second hand jeans or a shirt
Speaker 1: for fifty cents. Well, you know, we lived, we lived together,
Speaker 1: and we had we had no money. All the money
Speaker 1: went on the band going forward, and there were three
Speaker 1: children living there and so some of the money went
Speaker 1: to make sure that they were okay, and the rest
Speaker 1: of the time we just carried on. And you get
Speaker 1: to that point when in a band sometimes when what
Speaker 1: you're doing is so that you can do the next
Speaker 1: when you're earning money, so that you've got enough money
Speaker 1: to go and do the next gig or the next
Speaker 1: album or whatever. Um. Yeah, that's that's what we lived
Speaker 1: and we lived on nothing. Okay, So you go back
Speaker 1: to live with your you go back to live with
Speaker 1: your parents. The band is broken up, Yeah, okay, So
Speaker 1: how do you get yourself out of that hole. Um,
Speaker 1: I didn't really to start with. Um Martin who who
Speaker 1: lived with us in the big house in Northward. Um
Speaker 1: he'd he'd he'd been, he'd roaded for us, uh and
Speaker 1: left and formed a band called Ducks to Lucks. He
Speaker 1: called me up and said, hey, you want to join
Speaker 1: the Ducks. So I said, yeah, great, So I joined
Speaker 1: Ducks Lucks, who are also a pup up and who
Speaker 1: are different from us in that we were very very
Speaker 1: laid back. We we played sometimes we played things purposefully
Speaker 1: slow because the groove was better there. We wanted to
Speaker 1: be That's what we were looking for. The Ducks, on
Speaker 1: the other hand, played everything lightning fast. The drama was
Speaker 1: could say one, two, three, four faster than anyone I've
Speaker 1: ever I've ever heard. Um. So it was a bit
Speaker 1: of a bit of a culture shot me. But um
Speaker 1: and I think that was maybe two two and a
Speaker 1: half months. And then they broke up, which made me
Speaker 1: wonder what was the cause of something? But and then
Speaker 1: and then after after a bit, so I had I
Speaker 1: had virtually nothing. I had one guitar, a saxophone, and
Speaker 1: so I played saxophone when my parents were out, and
Speaker 1: and guitar whenever I could and wrote a few songs.
Speaker 1: You know. It was just a musician living at home.
Speaker 1: And then there was another phone call, which was Dave
Speaker 1: Robinson who told me that he had he had a
Speaker 1: studio that he was learning how to use. He had
Speaker 1: a tube desk that had belonged to Decca Records, um.
Speaker 1: And what his plan was was if any time he
Speaker 1: heard of or heard a singer, songwriter or a musician
Speaker 1: that he thought was worthwhile helping, he would invite them
Speaker 1: two make a demo recording in his studio. That way
Speaker 1: he would help them get a demo, he would help
Speaker 1: them maybe get advanced to a record deal of some description.
Speaker 1: And he'd learned how to uses his equipment. Is he'd
Speaker 1: be an engineer as well as record producing person. And say,
Speaker 1: he said, I have this guy, Um, he writes great songs.
Speaker 1: I think you'd really like him. And so we're making
Speaker 1: a demo and and then he said Martin and Bob
Speaker 1: Bob Andrews from the from the Brens List and Martin
Speaker 1: Belmont from Ducks there with us with two guys from
Speaker 1: a reggae ban. And now I really can't remember that
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about this. I can't remember the name,
Speaker 1: but they've just broken up also, and that was Steve
Speaker 1: Golding and Andrew Bodner, and so this is this is
Speaker 1: how I remember I remember it. I'm not convinced that
Speaker 1: everyone remembers this the same way. We've talked about it
Speaker 1: more recently and we end up saying no, no, no,
Speaker 1: that's not how it went at all. So so as
Speaker 1: far as I remember, we went, we we went and
Speaker 1: did these demo songs with Graham Parker. That that's who
Speaker 1: it was. It was Grand Parce. So we met Graham Parker.
Speaker 1: Martin might have met him earlier because he'd been Martin
Speaker 1: lived as an open anchor, which was the pub where
Speaker 1: Dave had his studio. Um, And as we were packing up,
Speaker 1: I was thinking, oh, that went really well. That was
Speaker 1: really good. That was good, good fun. Everybody got on
Speaker 1: really well, So I said, I think. I said, well
Speaker 1: that was good fun, wasn't it. And everybody's stilar to
Speaker 1: me and said yeah, it was pretty good. So I said,
Speaker 1: anyone found see you getting together and just to play
Speaker 1: somewhere if we can find somewhere to play, anybody in
Speaker 1: fancy noodling on some songs? So and everyone said yes.
Speaker 1: So a little bit after that Martin who knew the
Speaker 1: proprietors at Newland's Tavern which is in southeast London in
Speaker 1: Peckham Uh, and they said, yeah, they had like a
Speaker 1: function room, quite a large room as part of the pub.
Speaker 1: UM and they said we could use the function room
Speaker 1: in the afternoons where the pub was closed, with one proviser,
Speaker 1: and that is if we ever formed a band and
Speaker 1: did a gig, we do the first gig at their pub.
Speaker 1: So we thought that was a pretty fair deal. So
Speaker 1: we took us. So we started playing together for the
Speaker 1: hell of it. Basically, we we played songs that we liked,
Speaker 1: played songs any song that anybody wanted to sing. We've
Speaker 1: played songs that we've written or we're trying to write. Um.
Speaker 1: And for two three months I would say it went.
Speaker 1: It was really good. We started to we call on
Speaker 1: better and better all the time, and we were sort
Speaker 1: of approaching the time where we probably could have could
Speaker 1: have done a gig or some gigs had we wanted to,
Speaker 1: but it never anybody because we were doing it because
Speaker 1: we enjoyed it. UM. And then and then Day phoned
Speaker 1: up again he's got a record deal for Graham based
Speaker 1: upon the for three tracks, and the record company wanted
Speaker 1: us to back him on the album and on touring.
Speaker 1: So not wanting to be a band and not want
Speaker 1: into tour or sign anything with anybody, we agreed that
Speaker 1: we play on the album and do one tour and
Speaker 1: that started at the end of and at the end
Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy six, we've had thirteen days off as
Speaker 1: far as I remember, its five or six tours of England,
Speaker 1: one of Europe, two of the United States, and made
Speaker 1: two albums and we're about to make the route what
Speaker 1: was what was going to be the Rumor's first solo album. Okay,
Speaker 1: let's talk about Graham Parker for a minute. You know,
Speaker 1: he comes out. He's a phenomenon. Ironically, he's playing relatively
Speaker 1: straight ahead music when the new wave and stiff records
Speaker 1: and Elvis Costello becomes a thing. But the first two
Speaker 1: records are phenomenon. I'm one of the few people who
Speaker 1: enjoys listening to Heat Treatment more. Something I'm going through
Speaker 1: has got a reggae a feel soul in the Maelstrom.
Speaker 1: Did you feel that this was going to break big?
Speaker 1: Did you? What was it like being inside the engine
Speaker 1: because it's got a lot more publicity, a lot more
Speaker 1: traction than Brinsley shots. Um. Yeah, so that the things
Speaker 1: that you when you're on the road, that the things
Speaker 1: about what's happening with the press and what's happening with
Speaker 1: sales and the rest of it. You they're they're told
Speaker 1: to you. But and they it's not that they go
Speaker 1: in one ear and come out the other. It's just
Speaker 1: that you're occupied because you're playing all the time. And
Speaker 1: so if you've got any spare time to think about anything,
Speaker 1: you listen to somebody else's music. But there's not very
Speaker 1: much time to do that either, So I missed huge
Speaker 1: chunks of music. But as I was playing all the time,
Speaker 1: and so you you know, you get to hear that
Speaker 1: things are going well and then they don't for some reason,
Speaker 1: and you see people around you moving up. Um I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know if we made any potential hit records. Um,
Speaker 1: at the time, I would have known what a hit
Speaker 1: record was like. Um, I had I had two young
Speaker 1: daughters that they they turned me onto Adam and the
Speaker 1: Ants and a few bands from the early eighties. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it time goes past and you do stuff, and some
Speaker 1: of it works, some of it doesn't, and to me
Speaker 1: that's pretty much. But it is out of your hands.
Speaker 1: You can't influence it in in any or many ways.
Speaker 1: So so you just go along and I guess if
Speaker 1: you don't like it enough, you you go somewhere else.
Speaker 1: But the overriding thing for me anyway, and I would
Speaker 1: say for everybody in the band, is that we all
Speaker 1: really like Graham Parker's songs and really enjoyed playing them.
Speaker 1: And that's for me. That's good enough. Sending a whole
Speaker 1: lot more money than I had been before of the Prinsidents.
Speaker 1: So were you making any money? Yeah, a little bit
Speaker 1: of money. I wouldn't have said that we were not rich,
Speaker 1: but we got by. Okay. So you're on the road
Speaker 1: essentially every day. How does that affect your marriage? Um?
Speaker 1: We're okay? Now that are you still married to that? Bleay? Um,
Speaker 1: we're together, let's put it that way. I gotta ask
Speaker 1: what that means. It means that we're we're we're together
Speaker 1: where we're happy together. Okay, But you made it sound
Speaker 1: like but you're still married? Correct? Yes? No? No? Did
Speaker 1: you get divorced and at some point you never you
Speaker 1: never got married? Which one is it we were divorced,
Speaker 1: recently divorced. Yeah, nothing to do with being in a band.
Speaker 1: What causes a divorce at this stage of life? Goodness
Speaker 1: only knows. I you know, I'm not a psychiatrist or
Speaker 1: a psychologist, so I have no idea. I do know
Speaker 1: one thing, and that is that UM. Being in a
Speaker 1: relationship uh is is a deep thing if it's going
Speaker 1: to work forever, um and can be hard. Work things
Speaker 1: things out of your hand. Um, get in the way
Speaker 1: of stuff. It's difficult, stop surprising. Ready? Is there a
Speaker 1: third party involved? That's Noah, Okay, So let's go back
Speaker 1: to Graham Parker. You work with Mutt Lane, who then
Speaker 1: goes on to be considered one of the great record producers.
Speaker 1: Reilly has success and in my phenomenal Did you realize
Speaker 1: he had that level of talent at the time? No, No,
Speaker 1: I didn't. And the bands, which is from Mercury to
Speaker 1: hera staff, was that something you felt in the band? Um? Well,
Speaker 1: you have to you have to remember that Graham Parker
Speaker 1: as an entity other than the rumor. I know we
Speaker 1: did everything together, but we were not the rumor, were
Speaker 1: not signed um to anyone. We had We eventually had
Speaker 1: a sorry, um A record deal with Arista as the rumor. Um,
Speaker 1: so where where Graham went? So it it seemed like
Speaker 1: the move from me Cree too Arista was a good idea.
Speaker 1: But it's business stuff. I don't know. I have no idea. Okay,
Speaker 1: So the band is not signed to the label, but
Speaker 1: was just on everyday life. Because you're playing all these gigs,
Speaker 1: is Graham separate from you or you feel that you're
Speaker 1: all in it together? I, having having been in the
Speaker 1: in the Brindles, being in the Brinslees changes, I want
Speaker 1: to believe that you are in it all together. We
Speaker 1: weren't ordering it together and so rightly or wrongly, that
Speaker 1: was my my impression for philosophical idea of how it was.
Speaker 1: That's what I didn't think about it a lot. I
Speaker 1: just you just do what you do and and pretty
Speaker 1: much what I did was as as if we were
Speaker 1: all together. So I think that's how we were. Okay,
Speaker 1: So hard does it end with the band in Graham? Um?
Speaker 1: I think Graham came to a full stop. Um. I
Speaker 1: think he was unhappy with with the way things were going. Um,
Speaker 1: with the amount of money that we he and was
Speaker 1: put into into touring and all the all the other stuff.
Speaker 1: I think he needed to to stop for a while
Speaker 1: and gather gather himself again and change things to to
Speaker 1: he was not happy with. So it was it was
Speaker 1: completely amicable. We just he just said, I'm I'm stopping
Speaker 1: and you guys go do what you what you want
Speaker 1: to do. Okay. The Graham peels off like a stage
Speaker 1: of a rocket. Where does that leave you in the
Speaker 1: Rumor and what happens there? Uh? The Rumor carried on
Speaker 1: as a four piece without Bob andrews um And we
Speaker 1: made we made another album, so that would be our
Speaker 1: third album without Graham um And and we had to
Speaker 1: make that twice. There was a record company thing that
Speaker 1: that we had to obey a certain thing in a
Speaker 1: in a contract which we didn't obey, and and so
Speaker 1: we had we had a record that was released in
Speaker 1: the in the UK, and then another version which so
Speaker 1: we re recorded everything, which was released in the United States.
Speaker 1: Which one was better? Well, they were, they were different. Actually,
Speaker 1: we were talking about it the other day. One of
Speaker 1: the songs is on it is have You Seen My Baby?
Speaker 1: Which is a Randy Newman song. Uh, And Steve emailed
Speaker 1: us all and said, I probably said, now I heard
Speaker 1: all this, I think ours was better. Um, yeah, I
Speaker 1: guess the the USA one was was better. It was
Speaker 1: definitely it was definitely looser feeling. So how does it
Speaker 1: grind to a halt with the rumor? Just it just
Speaker 1: does stuff. You know, if you if you can't get
Speaker 1: work that you can afford to do, or that is
Speaker 1: is not what you want to be doing, then it
Speaker 1: all it all stops, and and Steve and I carried
Speaker 1: on playing. We played with Garland Jeffries, Um the band
Speaker 1: played with Garden Jeffries. We supported and backed him um
Speaker 1: and then later Steve and I went on to play
Speaker 1: with him on another tour. Um and then and then
Speaker 1: that stopped. And so that was the end of the
Speaker 1: rumor and split up by then. Okay, but ultimately you
Speaker 1: go straight you give up the music. How does that
Speaker 1: tell me the far process there? Um? Well, getting back
Speaker 1: a bit um. When Graham got himself together again and
Speaker 1: made made another another his next album, I was in
Speaker 1: New York converting our agents newly acquired loft building or
Speaker 1: loft floor into a five room office. Did I did
Speaker 1: all the the walls, all the electricity blurred, the ceilings,
Speaker 1: all of that and made it into a pretty cool
Speaker 1: office space. And while that was. While I was doing that,
Speaker 1: I was I was staying with with Alan or agent
Speaker 1: um And and Graham was looking for a guitar player.
Speaker 1: He had the risk of the band All Americans um
Speaker 1: And was looking for a guitar player. And they had
Speaker 1: arranged long much and came up with with no one.
Speaker 1: And Alan said, Brinsley's staying with me, and Graham said yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: was he up for it? And so I had obviously said,
Speaker 1: you know, if he asked, I'm up for it. Alan said, yes,
Speaker 1: he's up for it. Graham, why didn't I think of that?
Speaker 1: And so I got back playing. And then through the
Speaker 1: eighties I played, made four albums, produced Mona, Lisa's sister
Speaker 1: and Human Soul with him and so, and toured with
Speaker 1: him UM. But in one I started very loosely working
Speaker 1: fixing guitars and did one day a week at the
Speaker 1: store UM, which I really enjoyed. They were really good
Speaker 1: to me. They allowed me to go off and and
Speaker 1: play on tours and make records. So I had spent
Speaker 1: six months working with Graham and said months working in
Speaker 1: this store fixing guitars, and that got busier and busier
Speaker 1: until I was working five six days a week. UM
Speaker 1: and then in nine late I think we were we
Speaker 1: were touring and in America. I think it was Lost
Speaker 1: A and LX that I was. I was walking to
Speaker 1: the plane perfectly, okay. I was not freaked out or anything,
Speaker 1: not worried. And I don't really do that anymore. I
Speaker 1: don't don't recall. But they used to put yellow and
Speaker 1: black take a big wide yellow and black tape across
Speaker 1: the floor where you were going from one area to another.
Speaker 1: And I reached this tape, which was at the top
Speaker 1: of the the shoot what are those calls the shoots
Speaker 1: that you walked down to plays gateway. I was walking towards.
Speaker 1: I got to it and stopped and I looked down.
Speaker 1: I wasn't even looking. I just stopped and I looked down.
Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting. There's that yellow and black tape. Went
Speaker 1: to put my foot across it, and I couldn't, so right,
Speaker 1: I was perplexed. I turned around, walked away, came back
Speaker 1: at speed, stopped, dried for about ten minutes, and stopped
Speaker 1: every time I ran at it stopped. And I was
Speaker 1: standing there and they were calling last call for the flight,
Speaker 1: and our keyboard player, who had a tendency to leave
Speaker 1: everything until the very last moment, walked up behind me,
Speaker 1: put his hands on my shoulder and said, friends, thanks
Speaker 1: for waiting for me, and pushed me across the line,
Speaker 1: at which point I walked down to the plane. I
Speaker 1: had a very pleasant flight up to I think it
Speaker 1: was to Oregon, um, and that was the last flies
Speaker 1: apart from flying back to England on that tour. And
Speaker 1: I got someone to push me over the line, and
Speaker 1: I s that's how I got on the plane and
Speaker 1: came back to England. And then for from then until
Speaker 1: I didn't fly, and I knew that I couldn't get
Speaker 1: on an airplane again. Um, and then so when when
Speaker 1: I that sort of backed it up for me. Really
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it anymore? Wait wait, wait, wait wait,
Speaker 1: what was going on there? In retrospect twenty years you
Speaker 1: couldn't fly? Did you just have a pianic attack? How
Speaker 1: did you get over it? I didn't know what. I
Speaker 1: didn't need to get over it because I never got
Speaker 1: on a plane. I was pushed twice and was okay, well,
Speaker 1: well you haven't met but you started to get on
Speaker 1: planes again? Correct? Yes? So how did you do that? Um?
Speaker 1: I went to the doctors and said, I've got to
Speaker 1: I've got to fly. I have a problem getting on
Speaker 1: the plane. Um, I've got to fly to the States.
Speaker 1: And so I was wondering if there's anything you could
Speaker 1: give me that would would arm me enough to get
Speaker 1: on the plane. And she very kindly said, just have
Speaker 1: a couple of bottles, a couple a couple of glasses
Speaker 1: of red wine and you'll be fine. So Martin said
Speaker 1: he would help. Martin's not very happy flying either, So
Speaker 1: I thought, this is going to be fun. Someone who
Speaker 1: doesn't like flying with somebody who can't get or a plane. Um.
Speaker 1: And we got to We got to Heathrow Terminal five,
Speaker 1: which was very pleasant. Oh walked around for a bit
Speaker 1: and then saw that it was time we could go
Speaker 1: and check in. So we went to the check in desk,
Speaker 1: presented our passports and papers and every saying tickets and
Speaker 1: the guy said, ah, I'm very sorry to have to
Speaker 1: tell you that your plane has been delayed. So I
Speaker 1: so I said, so I'd had the two glasses of
Speaker 1: wine by now, so I I laughed and said, and
Speaker 1: so what are you doing? And he said, We're getting
Speaker 1: another one, and and I said, and that one will
Speaker 1: be all right. Um. And so they spluttered a bit
Speaker 1: and he said, yes, sir, that one would be fine. Uh,
Speaker 1: And and it was. But um, the wine had taken
Speaker 1: its effect. I needed more. And so I don't remember
Speaker 1: an awful lot about what happened after that, but I
Speaker 1: overswine and and and have flown quite quite a reasonable
Speaker 1: amount since. And uh enjoyed it and not had a problem.
Speaker 1: Do you still drink the two glasses of wine? Absolutely? Yes? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So tell me about the period when you couldn't fly
Speaker 1: what you were doing. I fixed guitars in the store.
Speaker 1: I branched out of my my by myself a couple
Speaker 1: of times. I got so this is this is about.
Speaker 1: From the moment that I heard Apache, the only thing
Speaker 1: that I was really in love with in terms of
Speaker 1: things were guitars, electric tiars. UM completely fascinated by them.
Speaker 1: I loved I like looking at them and pouring over them.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a boyhood fascination that never never went away.
Speaker 1: So to be able to work on them all day
Speaker 1: long and be paid for it, and be able to
Speaker 1: play them while you're fixing them and learning about why
Speaker 1: they go wrong and how they go wrong and how
Speaker 1: to fix them was was fascinating and I'm lucky to
Speaker 1: have to have been able to do that, to be
Speaker 1: with guitars, the thing that I love all my life. Okay,
Speaker 1: I have a good Gibson Acoustic s J. My mother
Speaker 1: left it in the cross space. It's got some mold
Speaker 1: on the top. Is that something you could fix? I'd
Speaker 1: have to as as all repairs say, I would have
Speaker 1: to see it. But potentially yes. Okay, well I'm asking
Speaker 1: really because you're in the UK and I'm in the US,
Speaker 1: and we're not going to actually do this. Um, you
Speaker 1: can do things besides the trust rod and adjusting strings.
Speaker 1: You can work on the whole instrument. Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm not so good inside acoustic guitars that that, you know,
Speaker 1: fixing struts and things like that. That's um, that's that's difference.
Speaker 1: But refretting, fret dressing, as I call it. Um, that's
Speaker 1: that's a complicated thing. So don't it do strange things?
Speaker 1: And so if a guitar needs setting up, it also
Speaker 1: might need a refret, which is a big job and
Speaker 1: has to be done carefully and accurately. Um. But the
Speaker 1: main The main thing is is that I I because
Speaker 1: I've been a guitar player for so long, I kind
Speaker 1: of intuitively know how a guitar is supposed to feel.
Speaker 1: When when I'm during the final part of setting up
Speaker 1: a guitar, which is which do with the nut and
Speaker 1: the trust rod and the action, there seems to be
Speaker 1: a sweet spot, and I am prepared to work until
Speaker 1: I find the sweet spot if it's there, and find
Speaker 1: her ball. That that's my my thing. I'm interested in
Speaker 1: making guitars feel like guitar players think they should. Okay,
Speaker 1: my understanding is a professional of your caliber would not
Speaker 1: play a guitar off the rack, that they would immediately
Speaker 1: send it to someone like you to set it up.
Speaker 1: Is that true? Um? Yeah, I think, Um, I haven't
Speaker 1: I haven't tried all of them, but yes, in general,
Speaker 1: there isn't a There isn't a guitar, so there are
Speaker 1: specialist makers, but in the run of the mill guitars
Speaker 1: that there isn't one that wouldn't benefit from at least
Speaker 1: a set up and probably possibly a fret dress in
Speaker 1: a setup. And just to be clear, a setup would
Speaker 1: entail without the threat that would entail adjusting the trust
Speaker 1: rod so that the neck was true as true as
Speaker 1: it can be. Um. They the action and the nutcuts correctly,
Speaker 1: the nut slots but correctly. UM, and adjustments to make
Speaker 1: sure that it plays in tune all the way up
Speaker 1: to next. Okay, is this lucrative business? Um? If you
Speaker 1: were doing it for yourself, yes, if you were doing
Speaker 1: it in a store, um not. Wages are not fabulously
Speaker 1: I So you would go back and forth being independent?
Speaker 1: What was that about? Um? The independent stuff was bigcause
Speaker 1: while I was I was getting involved in fixing guitars,
Speaker 1: also got interested in our amplifiers. And at one point,
Speaker 1: quite accidentally, I stumbled across a little part of a
Speaker 1: circuit dar fire circuit that made things made them sound, um,
Speaker 1: very comfortable. That helped you, made you want to carry
Speaker 1: on playing. Um. And I've talked to a couple of
Speaker 1: friends who are amplifier you know, proper designers and repairers
Speaker 1: who know what they're talking about. Uh. And one in
Speaker 1: particular was really interested in it. Pointed out to me
Speaker 1: why that happened electronically, um and and pointed out to
Speaker 1: me that no, no electronics person would do that. But
Speaker 1: actually it just seems to be no reason not to.
Speaker 1: It works and it sounds very good. Um, So I
Speaker 1: was I attempted to start making um amplifiers. I came
Speaker 1: to a halt that I couldn't find anybody who would
Speaker 1: print out a face plate, you know, with base, middle,
Speaker 1: treble and volume and the name written across it that
Speaker 1: you would stick to the front um. It would cost
Speaker 1: two and a half grand. Whether you wanted one or
Speaker 1: he wanted two thousand or four thousand. The setup work
Speaker 1: was was what cost the money, and the making of
Speaker 1: it was just the cost of a bit of plastic
Speaker 1: or word and a bit of machining. UM. And that
Speaker 1: kind of stopped me. And then Graham phoned up instead,
Speaker 1: we're doing it again, And so I stopped being a
Speaker 1: guitar repairer and an AMP build a modifier. There's quite
Speaker 1: a lot of my modified apps out there in this country. No,
Speaker 1: I did do quite quite a lot, and some one
Speaker 1: in particular is in a in a studio where apparently
Speaker 1: all the guitar players that go there use that AMPR. Okay,
Speaker 1: so what does it look like that you work with
Speaker 1: Graham Um? Graham phoned up. I was the last person
Speaker 1: he phoned, and he said he said that I know
Speaker 1: you're going to say no because you can't get on
Speaker 1: an aeroplane, but I'm going to try any anyway, and
Speaker 1: everybody wants me to so um. And he explained what
Speaker 1: he was what he was doing, which was to make
Speaker 1: another Grand Park in the Rumor record and he'd love
Speaker 1: for me to be involved, and could I get on
Speaker 1: a plane and I said absolutely, no problem at all,
Speaker 1: no worries, just tell me when I'll be there. Great,
Speaker 1: And so we had a chat about it a little
Speaker 1: bit and then I put the phone down and sat
Speaker 1: back and talk shit, I've just said I'll get over
Speaker 1: an aeroplane, and and I did, and it was all fine. Okay.
Speaker 1: So at this point in time, okay, let me ask
Speaker 1: you difficult why you're a luthier. Are you continuing to
Speaker 1: play music yourself? Yeah, well, if you're fixing it, so
Speaker 1: you need to play it for ten fifteen minutes before
Speaker 1: you start. You played the fifteen minutes afterwards, played for
Speaker 1: a couple of hours if nobody's Hastley hastling you. So
Speaker 1: I played every day, probably more than I played when
Speaker 1: I was on the road, where you don't get much
Speaker 1: time for it. Apart from the gig. Uh and and
Speaker 1: later I used to hang around in sound checks as
Speaker 1: long as I could. Um. Yeah, So I played a lot,
Speaker 1: and at some point I started writing songs as well,
Speaker 1: which I hadn't done for quite a long time. Then
Speaker 1: did you play any bands in that era? No? Well,
Speaker 1: I had played bass with a friends band. They're bass
Speaker 1: player left and they couldn't find another one, so I
Speaker 1: said I'll played bass with so I I started playing
Speaker 1: bass and we played a gig. It was just really
Speaker 1: I love playing bass. Um. Okay, So you recently put
Speaker 1: out a new album. It's this late date actually in
Speaker 1: the crazy world we live in music now, where the
Speaker 1: biggest household name Max, put out records in there immediately stiff.
Speaker 1: What motivated you to make a record now? Um? I
Speaker 1: think what what motivated me finally was that the one
Speaker 1: that the tune that I recorded to start with turned
Speaker 1: out the experience of it and and it itself turned
Speaker 1: out so well that I wanted to carry on. I
Speaker 1: had more songs, and and I thought, you know, why not,
Speaker 1: this will cost me a little bit of money, but
Speaker 1: actually it would be fun and and and it was.
Speaker 1: But it started with James halliwell, who played with us
Speaker 1: on Mona Lisa sister. It was a keyboard player. He's
Speaker 1: got this little studio off in in Richmond, and he
Speaker 1: came to one of the Grand Parker of the Rumor
Speaker 1: gigs in London Shepherds Push Empire, and came backstage and
Speaker 1: said high and said, you know, we're just talking. So
Speaker 1: what are you? What are you doing? Sort of doing
Speaker 1: this and writing a few songs? He said, what if
Speaker 1: you want to come and record one? I've got little studio.
Speaker 1: Why did you come down? And so I did and
Speaker 1: recorded a song which I wanted to record for a
Speaker 1: relative's wedding as a wedding present, and which we did
Speaker 1: and and carried on. Both said. We both looked at
Speaker 1: each other after we've played it back in its mix form,
Speaker 1: said well that's pretty good, isn't it. Should we do
Speaker 1: some more? And he said, yeah, let's do some more.
Speaker 1: We could make an EP and before we knew it,
Speaker 1: we'd made an ill okay if you made it in
Speaker 1: his studio. Essentially the cost was lower, non existent. Uh no, um,
Speaker 1: I got what's what we call mates rate, but pay
Speaker 1: you paid, But there's a record company. The record company
Speaker 1: reimburse you. They just releasing the record. Um, well, if
Speaker 1: we're talking about Tangles, so I was talking about the
Speaker 1: first album. Okay, we'll continue the narrative. You make make
Speaker 1: the first record, but you put the first record out yourself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. And sold it where I where I could.
Speaker 1: There was want to with Graham, sold sold someone that
Speaker 1: a Japanese guy called me up and wanted two. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just told it where I could. I still have
Speaker 1: a few left, um, and I haven't broken even on that.
Speaker 1: That's the second album Tangled, that I paid for and
Speaker 1: it's selling few and so I will get reimbursement at
Speaker 1: some point for some of it. But as I think,
Speaker 1: we don't. We really don't do this for the money
Speaker 1: because because it's not it's not there. It's very difficult. Um.
Speaker 1: But we enjoy it. So what was the motivation for Tangled? Um? Well,
Speaker 1: mainly because it it started because there was that there
Speaker 1: are songs that UM as as I as I was recording, unexpected,
Speaker 1: there was I was writing more songs, and so some
Speaker 1: of the songs that I wrote while we were making
Speaker 1: it UM seemed to be better, better suited to some
Speaker 1: of the other songs that were already there. So we
Speaker 1: ended up with three four songs that were, you know,
Speaker 1: on their way to being finished. Um. And so there
Speaker 1: was the beginnings of another album, and I had more
Speaker 1: songs ready, so we just carried on and and now
Speaker 1: we've carried We've carried on and Tangled Is is out there,
Speaker 1: and I've got three or four songs almost finished and
Speaker 1: eight ten songs written. Um. Some of them have just
Speaker 1: got basic demo tracks. Some of them are almost finished.
Speaker 1: So I have another album. It's it's not like it's
Speaker 1: not like I'm making albums. It's that I'm just recording songs.
Speaker 1: And at some point you have enough for an album,
Speaker 1: so you put it out. Now are you playing live?
Speaker 1: I am not at the momentum. I'm afraid. I don't.
Speaker 1: I trust very little about our government and what it's saying.
Speaker 1: I think it So I think today's COVID infection rate
Speaker 1: went up to over forty five thousand. It's been forty
Speaker 1: five or above for the last two weeks. No one, well,
Speaker 1: the only people may wearing masks are doing it voluntarily.
Speaker 1: So you can go into supermarket and half the people
Speaker 1: are unmasked. There's obviously hundreds of thousands of people in
Speaker 1: this country with it. People who have been double vaccinated
Speaker 1: have died, have caught it and again and died. Um,
Speaker 1: so I don't think it's safe. So prior to COVID,
Speaker 1: were you were you playing live? Um? No? When I
Speaker 1: was playing with Graham, and pretty much after after that,
Speaker 1: I was sort of mid mid doing things and COVID
Speaker 1: came as a as a rise, and I was lucky
Speaker 1: to be able to actually finish Tangled because that it
Speaker 1: got really difficult. Um, we're traveling in the studio. Okay,
Speaker 1: when was the last time you played with Graham? Um? Five?
Speaker 1: I would say five years ago now for four to
Speaker 1: five years. And is that the last chapter or you
Speaker 1: never know? Oh sorry, is that the last chapter? Or
Speaker 1: might you play with him again? Um? Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'd be very happy to play with
Speaker 1: him again if he's up for it. Um. And all
Speaker 1: these people that have gone through, Bobby Andrews and Nick Low, etcetera.
Speaker 1: Have you mainteam connection with all of them? Um no?
Speaker 1: I I think if I've talked to Nick a dozen
Speaker 1: times since the Prinses broke up, that's about about it. Um.
Speaker 1: Bob Yeah, more more obviously because he was in the
Speaker 1: rumor and then and then in the Rumor a second time. Um,
Speaker 1: when we did it again. Um. So I'm in touch
Speaker 1: with members of the Rumor and Graham. Um okay if
Speaker 1: this late D do you get any royal dues or
Speaker 1: any you know, public performance moneies? Yeah, I get there's
Speaker 1: a great a great company or a company organization called PPL,
Speaker 1: and they sent me check enough to live on, not
Speaker 1: enough to live or no, But I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: know where it comes from. Sometimes it's it's what i'd
Speaker 1: call quite a lot of money, but sometimes it's sunny,
Speaker 1: it's like a fifty pounds, and sometimes it's a thousand
Speaker 1: or two. Um. But yeah, you can't, you can't live
Speaker 1: live on that. So I'm officially a retired person. Um
Speaker 1: so ah so I am working very very little, really
Speaker 1: working more on songwriting and and arranging things in my
Speaker 1: head ready for the studio, hopefully going into the studio
Speaker 1: again in a week's time. UM to record at least one,
Speaker 1: if not to song new songs. Um. If you're getting
Speaker 1: this limited money from from your past work, what are
Speaker 1: you living on? Um? Just just money that I have. UM,
Speaker 1: I in writ it. A little um money comes, A
Speaker 1: little money comes. In I seem to be able to
Speaker 1: balance the books fairly reasonably. It's it's not I'm not
Speaker 1: I'm not wealthy or anything. And and really I want
Speaker 1: to do what I what I like doing and for
Speaker 1: as long as I can. So well, you've saved money
Speaker 1: from your musical. You know a lot of musicians when
Speaker 1: they get to the end, they didn't save any money.
Speaker 1: So you save money from your musical endeavor. Um, Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I think. I think what I inherited is what keeps
Speaker 1: me above water doing doing what I do. But I
Speaker 1: seem to be able to go along and and make
Speaker 1: ends meet, um, without being hugely successful or wealthy. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna ask. In America we have social security.
Speaker 1: I assume you have the equivalent in the UK. It's
Speaker 1: not enough money to live on here. What's the situation
Speaker 1: in the UK? Um? We have we have a pension,
Speaker 1: a national pension scheme. So everybody's does that. If they work,
Speaker 1: they pay every week into it. And at the end
Speaker 1: of when you stop working, when you when you retire,
Speaker 1: when you reach the official retirement age. Um, you get
Speaker 1: paid every your pension, your state pension, every every month.
Speaker 1: And is it enough to live I mean, you've inherited money,
Speaker 1: but for the average person, isn't enough to live on? Um,
Speaker 1: I would say just, but I think I think most
Speaker 1: people have has something else other than I think I
Speaker 1: think most people who who who you wouldn't regard really poor.
Speaker 1: And we have a lot of important role in this country.
Speaker 1: But but everybody seems to have enough to get by
Speaker 1: and go on holiday. Okay, let me ask you about
Speaker 1: a couple of tracks, because I mean, I did buy
Speaker 1: the first first room around, I did see it at
Speaker 1: the Roxy. But going into some of this Graham Parker stuff,
Speaker 1: can you tell me the process of writing something I'm
Speaker 1: going through? Because it has that white reggae feel. How
Speaker 1: does that a song like that come together? That's that's
Speaker 1: the one of Graham songs I know. But did he
Speaker 1: come with that groove? Um? Yeah, I think I think so.
Speaker 1: He usually comes with with with a groove and playing
Speaker 1: acoustic guitar, and he would also he would also play
Speaker 1: little chord changes, tiny little things that. Okay, more than
Speaker 1: occasionally I've cotton donto and used um as a as
Speaker 1: a tune or a riff in the song, like like
Speaker 1: nobody hurts you that the guitar part that I play
Speaker 1: is based upon something he was doing on on rhythm
Speaker 1: on a rhythm part, so I'd hear that. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think, I think. You know, it's a broad range
Speaker 1: of things. Sometimes he has he has no idea and
Speaker 1: we we would we would kind of arrange it veen us. Um.
Speaker 1: Sometimes he would have a lot of idea and and
Speaker 1: we'd step back and and try to, you know, put
Speaker 1: what he was talking about into a band scenario. Fool's
Speaker 1: Gold on the same album, the Heat Treatment album, it
Speaker 1: starts with almost a waterfall flourished sound. Who would come
Speaker 1: up with that or who did come up with that?
Speaker 1: I don't remember. I mean, was it always Graham or
Speaker 1: sometimes the producer? Um? I think, well the producers, so
Speaker 1: that there are different producers who all work differently. We
Speaker 1: had a we've had a few odd things with some
Speaker 1: of the producers that we we worked with. Um M,
Speaker 1: I don't know that the sound that you're you're you're
Speaker 1: talking about, Um, it's a long long time since I
Speaker 1: listened to fulls Gold. It's not that long ago that
Speaker 1: I played it. But what are your two favorite Graham
Speaker 1: Parker and the Rumor tracks Love Gets You Twisted and
Speaker 1: watched them Man come Down. Okay, you have you must
Speaker 1: have been asked that before, because you have the question.
Speaker 1: You have the answers right away now, I've I haven't
Speaker 1: been I haven't been asked it. Well, I've been asked
Speaker 1: it indirectly, and so I don't. But those are my
Speaker 1: two favorite tracks, and I've just recorded what I've recorded,
Speaker 1: Love Gets You Twisted and I'm I'm parked recorded Watch
Speaker 1: the Moon Come Down. So they are for there in
Speaker 1: my head at the moment. Right. So, if your musical career,
Speaker 1: what are you most proud of? I've been asked this
Speaker 1: before as as well, so as a as a guitar player. UM,
Speaker 1: the solo on This Town, which is on max, Um,
Speaker 1: the solo on what is that song? Right going to
Speaker 1: I think of the song as selfish because that's how
Speaker 1: I how I wrote it. As a track on Unexpected,
Speaker 1: the solo on that, and the solo on Stranded on
Speaker 1: UM the work. So proud of being in the rumor
Speaker 1: and proud to have worked with Graham, I'd say happy,
Speaker 1: more than proud. I'm happy to have done those things.
Speaker 1: And yeah, all the day to day stuff that that
Speaker 1: you do when you're on the road, helping each other
Speaker 1: through various things, and and proud to have built an
Speaker 1: amplifier not quite from scratch, but pretty much from scratch
Speaker 1: that everybody that goes into that studio plays. That's Ralph
Speaker 1: Salmon's Studio's Drauma who played on Unexpected Um. He's he's um,
Speaker 1: you know, quite a big trauma. He's got a little studio.
Speaker 1: People go and record stuff there, and all the guitar
Speaker 1: players love this. This EMPLATHYZ song. That's it. I'm I'm
Speaker 1: proud to do that kind of stuff. Okay, Brinsley, I
Speaker 1: think we've hit the high point of your career. I
Speaker 1: have a million more questions. Maybe well maybe one time
Speaker 1: when we're face to face. You're quite the storyteller. I
Speaker 1: want to thank you so much for doing this and
Speaker 1: hopefully you'll have continued success with Tangled. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: Been good talking to you. It's been nice to talk
Speaker 1: to somebody who who knows the music industry and and
Speaker 1: bands and players. Like I said, thanks so much. Till
Speaker 1: next time. This is Bob left Sex