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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bobmasu's podcast. My guest

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Speaker 1: today is Brinsley Schwartz. Brinsley, good to have you here,

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Speaker 1: could be here? What think okay? For the Americans were

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Speaker 1: out of the loop? What exactly was pub rock? Easy? Rock?

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Speaker 1: Was any music than any band wanted to play in

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Speaker 1: a pub. There wasn't as no such thing as a

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Speaker 1: a music genre that you could say was pub rock.

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Speaker 1: It was just what everybody played. Anybody played in a pub. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So then why did it get a label? What was

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Speaker 1: different about it from what came before? I was well

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Speaker 1: so musically I'd say that the biggest difference between the

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Speaker 1: two things was, Hey, you get into words like honest um,

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Speaker 1: but pub rock was down to earth, just playing songs.

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Speaker 1: And there were no no long sometimes tedious guitar solos

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Speaker 1: or keyboard silos or drum solos. He never saw a

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Speaker 1: drub solo in a pub, so so much more focused

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Speaker 1: on the songs and the and the excitement. The level

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Speaker 1: of energy was was higher, The audience was really close

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Speaker 1: that they could they could get the vibe and see

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Speaker 1: what was going on, much better than bigger bands that

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Speaker 1: played in big places and It also provided a place

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Speaker 1: for bands that were never going to be able to

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Speaker 1: play get up to playing in in big places, somewhere

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Speaker 1: to play, and eventually some of them did get up

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Speaker 1: to play in big places. So well, let's set the scene,

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Speaker 1: let's put it in context. When did pub rock begin? Well,

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Speaker 1: so it depends when you when you think it begun.

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Speaker 1: Um Eggs Over Easy with the band the first band

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Speaker 1: that any of us saw playing in a in a pub.

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Speaker 1: They were American from San Francisco area, I believe Um.

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Speaker 1: We saw that we we were fed up and playing

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Speaker 1: in bigger places, mostly colleges, and the idea of playing

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Speaker 1: with an audience in front of you, not having to

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Speaker 1: play your set of album songs, you could play whatever

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Speaker 1: you wanted appealed. So in the timeline we saw Eggs

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Speaker 1: Over Easy. Um. Two weeks later, Oh Dave Robinson, our manager,

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Speaker 1: and myself went around pubs in London trying to persuade

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Speaker 1: landlords that would be a really good idea to have

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Speaker 1: us play in the pub. A lot of them didn't

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Speaker 1: didn't get it, but they did get that we would

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Speaker 1: play for nothing until until they were making enough money

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Speaker 1: to be able to pay us, which so they liked

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Speaker 1: that idea, and a few weeks later we were we

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Speaker 1: started playing in pubs and pretty pretty soon and it

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Speaker 1: went down really well. It's pretty soon there were as

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Speaker 1: many people outside as there were inside. It was summer,

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Speaker 1: so it was a good time of year to be

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Speaker 1: doing it. And pretty soon other other bands joined in,

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Speaker 1: got gigs in some of the pubs, and I would say,

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Speaker 1: but that that's when it became pub rock. Well that's when,

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Speaker 1: roughly when the press took notice and labeled it pub rock. Okay,

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Speaker 1: this would be what year for what year did you

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Speaker 1: start playing the pubs? Yeah, I would say seventy summer

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Speaker 1: of seventy one. Okay, So for those of us who

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Speaker 1: are not English, this is in London or did it

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Speaker 1: spread throughout the nation? It was it was mostly in London,

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Speaker 1: uh and closely around London. But yeah, i'd say it

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Speaker 1: was in London. Okay, So we don't have pubs in

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Speaker 1: the US. How large would these pubs be? How many

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Speaker 1: people could be there when you performed? Um? Probably maybe

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Speaker 1: the larger ones could hold hundred fifty two hundred people.

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Speaker 1: There was a place, a pub called the Kensington, which

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Speaker 1: was had a large mainly road but large paving part outside.

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Speaker 1: And I definitely remember going out one very hot summer

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Speaker 1: evening and that that section of that square being packed

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Speaker 1: of people with people and the inside but so in

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Speaker 1: or maybe four hundred people, but mainly I'd stay between

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Speaker 1: hundred two hundred like your it's just the same thing.

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Speaker 1: And that's states like bars, larger what you called larger bars, okay.

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Speaker 1: And how many of these bars were there? How many

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Speaker 1: were in the circuit so to speak, um, ten a

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Speaker 1: dozen so not many, no, no, not not a lot

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Speaker 1: to know. Okay, So when you start playing the pubs,

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Speaker 1: do you how frequently do you play? And do you

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Speaker 1: play at the same pub or different pubs? We we

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Speaker 1: played in maybe four to six different pubs and once

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Speaker 1: a week or once a fortnight. So we were you know,

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Speaker 1: we were playing just an ordinary amount, but always mostly

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Speaker 1: in pubs. And once you established you could generate a crowd,

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Speaker 1: how much revenue could you generate, um, fifty per person

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Speaker 1: on the door, maybe a hundred pounds, two hundred pounds,

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Speaker 1: not a lot of money, okay, it's like it's like

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Speaker 1: it is now. We don't do this for the money.

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Speaker 1: We do it because it's fun. That's that's how it

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Speaker 1: how it was. We weren't really looking for anything else.

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Speaker 1: We just wanted to play. Okay, so Dave Robinson Jermana joing.

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Speaker 1: At this point the act is called Brinsley Schwartz. Do

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Speaker 1: you say Schwarz with the te or without the tea?

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Speaker 1: Now we say it with the T, but it's it

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Speaker 1: rhymes with hearts. It's Prinsley Schwartz, not princely Schwartz. One

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Speaker 1: more time, I gotta how do you pronounce it? Schwartz?

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Speaker 1: Swats so it rhymes with huts. I got it. I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to you know, It's like in the UK, Ray

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Speaker 1: it's Ray Davis, and here it's Ray Davies. But we'll

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Speaker 1: soldier forward. So who's who's in the man Brinsley Schwartz

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Speaker 1: at this point myself, Nickla, Bob Andrews, Billy Rankin in gone.

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Speaker 1: So that's the five of us. Okay, let's let's go

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Speaker 1: back a little bit further when okay, where do you

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Speaker 1: grow up? Sorry? Where did I grow up? Yeah? Mostly

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Speaker 1: in a place called Tunbridge Wells, which is in Kent,

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Speaker 1: or or in villages around. We moved quite a lot,

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Speaker 1: but never a long way. So around Tumbridge Wells yeah,

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Speaker 1: the south southeast corner. How far from London thirty five?

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Speaker 1: And did you go into London a lot or were

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Speaker 1: you living like in the country mentally? Um M, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we went into into London a lot. By the time

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Speaker 1: pub Rockets started we were living as a band together

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Speaker 1: in a house in a place called Northward, which was

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Speaker 1: northwest London. So as the as the debacle in nine

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Speaker 1: seventy started, we all moved into London and lived pretty

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Speaker 1: much in London. Okay, so let's go back. You're moving around.

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Speaker 1: Why are you moving around as a family so much?

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Speaker 1: My parents moved along. We we were we were a

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Speaker 1: house to do a rothers. They bought houses, we fixed

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Speaker 1: them up in the holidays. After a couple of years

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Speaker 1: we dined again. And was that Was that their main

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Speaker 1: means of employment or did the outside jobs? Now? My

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Speaker 1: my father was a school teacher in a in a

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Speaker 1: private school, which is the opposite to yours. You would

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Speaker 1: call it a public school. Yes, And how many kids

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Speaker 1: in the family just too then? Which were you the older,

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Speaker 1: the younger, the older? Whatever happened with the younger? Um,

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Speaker 1: she got married and moved away. She's she's now living

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Speaker 1: in Scotland with a second husband. Okay, so you're growing up,

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Speaker 1: when do you get exposed to music and excited about music?

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Speaker 1: I think pre pre Elvis, I can remember, so I

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Speaker 1: have to dig dig into memories. I remember a record

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Speaker 1: called Green Door, which I have no idea Who's who's

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Speaker 1: saying that Frankie, Frankie somebody, Frankie Vaughn maybe um. And

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Speaker 1: that that's the first record that I I said I

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Speaker 1: heard as a record. But pretty soon after that I

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Speaker 1: was listening to Elvis Presley and then all of the

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Speaker 1: late fifties and early sixties music. And the real turning

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Speaker 1: point was when I heard a tune called Patche which

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Speaker 1: was performed by a band called the show Days m

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Speaker 1: And that is why why I wanted to be a

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Speaker 1: guitar player. Okay, so how did you hear these records

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Speaker 1: on the radio? Did you buy the records on the radio?

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Speaker 1: Mostly historically we've learned that radio was very controlled in

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Speaker 1: the UK with the BBC, and people would listen to

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Speaker 1: Radio Luxembourg Radio Caroline, what was your experience that well,

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Speaker 1: that Radio Luxembourg Radio carry on a bit later later

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Speaker 1: than this, but yes, it most most radio was by

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Speaker 1: the BBC, and they were very strict um rules about

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Speaker 1: what could be played and what couldn't be played. And

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Speaker 1: it wasn't until the pirate radio stations started up that

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Speaker 1: we started to hear music from from the from more

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Speaker 1: from the States um that we hadn't had a chance

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Speaker 1: to to hear in England. Now, Liverpool was a dark

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Speaker 1: city and they say that the sailors came in with

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Speaker 1: blues records and that influenced the scene. There was that

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Speaker 1: only in Liverpool. Was it also where you were or

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Speaker 1: in the Kent area It wasn't. It wasn't in the

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Speaker 1: Kent area. The top forty was probably in stock in

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Speaker 1: the late local record store. Um it was. It was

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Speaker 1: very very young and and unworldly or experiences at that time.

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Speaker 1: It was a long time before I heard of blues record.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember which the first had a friend and

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Speaker 1: older friend who there was a guitar player who who

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Speaker 1: got me around to his place one day said listened

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Speaker 1: to this and put on John mel Male Blues Breaker

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Speaker 1: album and that was probably the first time I heard

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Speaker 1: a blues record. And and I remember I remember listening

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Speaker 1: to Albert king In in the local records store. You

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Speaker 1: could go into a booze. That happened in the States too.

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Speaker 1: You could get into a booth and if there was

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Speaker 1: no one in the store, they just played the record

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Speaker 1: for you. And so I used to do that. Um okay,

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Speaker 1: so you hear you hear apache tell me about picking

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Speaker 1: up an instrument and playing. Um. I hustled my parents.

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Speaker 1: They gave me a classical guitar for my birthday and

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to play a patty. I learned that

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Speaker 1: by myself without and they just from the tune figured

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Speaker 1: out some chords. And I've got a book called Five

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Speaker 1: Common Chords, which was which was a bad book to

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Speaker 1: get because it showed you every chord in all of

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Speaker 1: its inversions, and so every chord was a different poet

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Speaker 1: in your head, but really they were all the same,

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Speaker 1: just moved up and down the fingerboard. It was an

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Speaker 1: actually much easier thing to learn to play guitar than

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Speaker 1: a lot of other instruments, which I tried to play

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Speaker 1: later on. And if you started with the book, do

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Speaker 1: you know how to read music? No? So I did

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Speaker 1: younger at school. I think I got to grade four piano,

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Speaker 1: Grade four it's called in this country. So I could

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Speaker 1: read music, but once I started playing guitar, I found

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Speaker 1: that I could I knew what was coming next and

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Speaker 1: where it was quicker than I could read it off

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Speaker 1: the of the page. So I ended up really learning

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Speaker 1: everything by ear. So you never took a lesson. Much

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Speaker 1: later on I took I did some lessons when when

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Speaker 1: some guitar dam is opened up in London that would

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Speaker 1: have been in the in the eighties, I guess and

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Speaker 1: I went to some of that. And what were you

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Speaker 1: learning to learn and searching to learn and what did

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Speaker 1: you actually learn? Um? I guess I was searching to

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Speaker 1: learn steely Den chords and parts. I did learn the

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Speaker 1: solo to here's a memory stuff. Uh, well it's a

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Speaker 1: major Larry Carlton solo on a on the steely Den charm. So, um,

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Speaker 1: when do you get an electric guitar? Um? Well, this

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Speaker 1: is where helping my father was with the doing up

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Speaker 1: the house was. I got a shilling a day that's

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Speaker 1: ten cents maybe maybe it's about ten twelve cents um

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Speaker 1: for helping, for which I had to do things like

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Speaker 1: crawl under the floorboards to pull the electricity cables through.

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Speaker 1: Do you know that spiders are white and alive? When

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Speaker 1: they're underneath floorboards. Um. And I got enough money to

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Speaker 1: buy a an electric guitar. But when I went to

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Speaker 1: to buy one, I thought I knew what it was

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Speaker 1: that I wanted. My eye settled on something different, and

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Speaker 1: my parents very kindly paid difference for me. So I

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Speaker 1: got a half decent electric guitar, which was what it

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Speaker 1: was called a Oftener color Rama. It was red and

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Speaker 1: looked like the guitar that Hank Martin as the Shadows used,

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Speaker 1: and that was good enough for me. And what about

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Speaker 1: an amplifier? Yeah, I just got a little one and

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Speaker 1: I it had vowels in it, but I didn't really

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Speaker 1: know what that meant and important it was until much

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Speaker 1: later later on. Okay, So you're playing and at this

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Speaker 1: point your hold okay, and at what point do you say, hey,

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Speaker 1: I want to play with others? And what happens? Um?

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Speaker 1: When I when I left school, I left school at eighteen, Um,

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to go to university, although I had

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Speaker 1: a place. I wanted to be a guitar player. What

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Speaker 1: before we get there, you never played in a group

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Speaker 1: or anything in high school or you know whatever, your

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Speaker 1: secondary school. Yeah, okay, in my so this is part

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Speaker 1: of part of my time that I don't think about

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Speaker 1: too much. I went to a boarding school when I

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Speaker 1: was fourteen and we had a band. We used to

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Speaker 1: sneak out underneath play underneath the stage in the hall

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. Um. There were six

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Speaker 1: of us. We were sounds, four plus two. We didn't

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Speaker 1: really know what we were doing, but it was a

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Speaker 1: lot of fun and I guess part of it was

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Speaker 1: sneaking out at night in the middle of the night

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Speaker 1: to smoke cigarettes, drink cider and play underneath the hall.

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Speaker 1: But we did go. Nicklay's father was an r af

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Speaker 1: UM commander and in Germany and we went to uh

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Speaker 1: We went there to play for the for the kids,

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Speaker 1: and we were all fifteen sixteen, so I think we

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Speaker 1: played five shows. We traveled in my My parents had

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Speaker 1: a sleeper bus and yeah, we all piled in with

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Speaker 1: it to amplifiers and a snare drum. I went and played.

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Speaker 1: That was the only time that I had played before

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Speaker 1: leaving school. And do you remember what the material was? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: any rock and roll song that we could sing, one

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Speaker 1: of us who could sing could put together. Although we

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Speaker 1: did we played a lot of Beatles. I remember playing

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Speaker 1: you really got me and thinking, well this is fabulous.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that kind of said what we would call

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Speaker 1: pop music in England. Okay, did music bring it together

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Speaker 1: with Nick Low? Or were you friends before that and

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Speaker 1: music brought us to get together? We were two years

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Speaker 1: apart in school and you didn't mess with people two

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Speaker 1: years apart. So how did you actually cook up with Nick?

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Speaker 1: I think we're people were talking one day and we

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Speaker 1: all ended up with in the in the room under

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Speaker 1: the stage, in the in the hall, and that's that's

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Speaker 1: kind of how it started. It was he always a

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Speaker 1: bass player or did that just you know we needed

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Speaker 1: a bass player in the band. No, it wasn't. I

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Speaker 1: think he had a base by the time we went

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Speaker 1: and played in Germany. But but before before then he

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Speaker 1: had a had along I think probably a bit of

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Speaker 1: a clothes line, like plastic lines um sort of broomstick

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Speaker 1: and a packing case and and just plucked at it.

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Speaker 1: We were all just whatever we had. We just wanted

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Speaker 1: to do be in this and and so we did

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Speaker 1: what we could. The Beatles hit in sixty two. What

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Speaker 1: was it like when the Beatles hit you were still

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Speaker 1: in secondary school? It was m hm, it was it

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Speaker 1: was everything that was wildly exciting. Um, it was all

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Speaker 1: people would talk about. The the anticipation for the next

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Speaker 1: single was was was massive? Um, yeah, it was. It

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Speaker 1: was a turning point for the as it turned out,

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Speaker 1: for the world. I would say, right, but you were

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Speaker 1: a couple of years ahead of us in the UK

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Speaker 1: and all these other acts that we consider to be

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Speaker 1: the British invasion in the US. You know, the ones

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Speaker 1: from Liverpool and then you have the Kinks. What was

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Speaker 1: it like having that scene in the UK? Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was just it was just it was it was

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Speaker 1: almost everything that we thought about that I guess. I

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Speaker 1: guess we thought about football as as well and girls,

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Speaker 1: but otherwise it was it was the music. It's what

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Speaker 1: everybody was interested in. All the hangouts in record stores

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Speaker 1: and well, right, I was never allowed to go to

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Speaker 1: a coffee shop, but I guess a coffee bar as

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Speaker 1: they were called. Then that's what we talked about. That

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Speaker 1: overtook movies and things like that as the main event.

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Speaker 1: It was wildly exciting. Okay, you graduate from what we

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Speaker 1: call high school, you decide you don't want to go

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Speaker 1: to college. Your father is a teacher, what does he

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Speaker 1: have to say about that? He's not happy. Neither of

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Speaker 1: my parents are happy, but they could see that it

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Speaker 1: was what I wanted to do, and they came up

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Speaker 1: with an offer that they would take care of me

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Speaker 1: vie if I got any money. I contributed part of

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Speaker 1: it to the running of the household and I had

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Speaker 1: a year and if I didn't it didn't succeed. After

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00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:56,159
Speaker 1: a year, then I was either out of out of

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Speaker 1: my own or UM gone toinun of city. So they

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00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,200
Speaker 1: looked after me for a for a year, probably longer

305
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: in the end. So what happened in that year? In

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00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 1: that year somebody somebody knocked on the door or or

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00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 1: telephoned me. I think they knocked on the door or

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00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 1: either that or somebody knew my mother UM, and a

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00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 1: word got sent down a line somewhere, and this guy

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Speaker 1: whose name was Dave Cottam turned up and said, I

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Speaker 1: hear you play guitar and can sing. Do you want

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Speaker 1: to be in a band, to which I said yes.

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Speaker 1: So that band came known as three as a Crowd

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Speaker 1: and which later turned into Cypington Lodge and we eventually

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Speaker 1: made singles for Am I or Parlophone UM. And that

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00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 1: that was. That was the beginning of what I would

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Speaker 1: call a career. Wh Okay, how long after we've calls

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Speaker 1: you are you making records for EM? I must must

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Speaker 1: be a year, a year, a year and a half

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Speaker 1: something like that. A long time and you're still living

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00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 1: at home? What are you? You know? What are you

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00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: living on? Financially? Very little? Hardly anything at all? Really?

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Speaker 1: So how does the band get a deal with the

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00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: m I we h A guy asked to manage us?

325
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Speaker 1: Saw us playing somewhere, asked the manager as we said, okay,

326
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Speaker 1: and he got he got the deal. Um, I think

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Speaker 1: they paid for us to do a couple of demos

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Speaker 1: and and he carted those around the record labels and

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Speaker 1: we ended up getting a deal for five singles, which

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Speaker 1: we ended up doing. So what happened with kippington Um?

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Speaker 1: We made? We made five singles? People change, We became

332
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Speaker 1: an left so that the drama who was the last

333
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: person to leave, he left and week that's where we

334
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 1: got when we got Billy ranking in Um the bass

335
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: player whose band it was in the start, he left

336
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: because he wanted to play soul music and we didn't. UM.

337
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 1: That's when Nick joined UH and then and then we

338
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 1: decided we needed an organ player, and that's where Barry

339
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,360
Speaker 1: Landerman came, who was at the same school as Nick

340
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 1: and myself. So basically I phoned around people that I've

341
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: been at school with and said you want to join

342
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: a band? And people did and so um and then

343
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: in the end Barry left. He went and played with

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00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: a real pop group called Vanity Fair and and then

345
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: we had we advertised and found Bob Andrews. Okay, what

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00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: was Nick doing? We've were you called them? I have

347
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 1: no I have no idea, but see, obviously nothing that

348
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: important because he just jumped at the chance and and

349
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: came down. Okay, when is it goal? From Kippington Lane

350
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: to Brindsley s Keypington Lodge that there was Commington Lodge

351
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 1: somewhere somewhere in the middle of that appears, so the

352
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: four and after so I guess sometime in sixty six

353
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 1: days or sixty nine um, and yeah, they showed the

354
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: other three chose the name. Okay, okay, let's stop. The

355
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: name ends up being your name, Brinsley Shot, how does

356
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 1: that happen? We agreed that that Keypington Lodge was not

357
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: a good name and that we should leave that behind

358
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: and all that it had meant um, and we were

359
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: going to write down or suggested names, get together and

360
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: pick them one at a time and choose one. Uh.

361
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: And when that was due to happen on the Sunday,

362
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 1: I think, And when I turned up at Nick and

363
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 1: Bob's flat, they said, no, need to do that, We've

364
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: chosen already and they told me and I thought, oh no,

365
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: that's not pretty good, and but they said they were adamant.

366
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: So that's how I happen. Well, there's a benefit to

367
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: the p and being your name. And I'm sure all

368
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: this all this time later because of the recognition, you're

369
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: probably happy. Yeah. I didn't. I didn't think about it

370
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: much after that, you know, I just complained and then said, yeah, okay,

371
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 1: let's do that. Okay, it's keeping in livee. You made

372
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: the five records for you, am I. The band keeps

373
00:26:52,600 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: morphing now, as Brinsley shots what happens then? Um, we

374
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: saw an adverse in the Melody Maker, which was the

375
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: main music magazine of the time, UM, advertising for a

376
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: band that had their own equipment and wrote songs. And

377
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: we did have our own equipment and we did write songs.

378
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: So we called up the person turned up to Dave

379
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: Robinson who came down to Tombridge Wells and saw us play.

380
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: We went to for a few meals, mostly Indian meals

381
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: with him. He told lots of great stories about stuff

382
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: and we agreed to let him manage us. In reality,

383
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 1: what did he have going on when he was courting you? Um,

384
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: he didn't have very much going on. He was his company,

385
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: which was just him basically was involved with a small

386
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: group of companies of small companies who were involved in

387
00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: the payment business. Although Forbidden Fruit who are clothes story

388
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: up in London, it was one of them. There was

389
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: a little film film company um and an album cover

390
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 1: designer Barney Bubbles, who went on to do quite a

391
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: lot and that was overseen by by this money man

392
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 1: and so Apart from wowing us with stories about about

393
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: Hendricks and touring and various other things, his idea was

394
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: for us to play and and move up the ladder,

395
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: play the right gigs and trying to move up up

396
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: the ladder, playing bigger places and on tours with people

397
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: with big bands. Okay, tell me about Dave Robinson. Weltimately

398
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: goes on to form Stiff Records and he continues to

399
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: be a manager. What was he like Was he a

400
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: force of nature? Was he lucky? Was he was a

401
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: force of nature? Definitely? Did? Do you know the story

402
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: of how he got us at the gig, at the

403
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: film or east? No? But are we jumping ahead? I

404
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: know that, I mean, I want to hear you tell

405
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: the story. But let's go a little bit slower. So

406
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: you're playing, You're playing around, the band has your name.

407
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: What ultimately happens UM It comes to a point where

408
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: we realized that, uh, it's just not going to go

409
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: anywhere unless we do something that we do something out

410
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: of the ordinary or something big enough to get the

411
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: attention of any kind of record label. It was not

412
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: very easy to get on even if you had a manager,

413
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: it was not easy to get to get on UM.

414
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: So we decided that we'd go the route of trying

415
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: to to do something that would catch attention. And the

416
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 1: question was put to the other member the other companies

417
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: that were involved in the in the group of companies,

418
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: and they came up with some pretty bizarre ideas, but

419
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: the one that stuck was that we would we would.

420
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: It's like a circle that you have to close all

421
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: of the all of the things at the same time.

422
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: So we would get a major gig in the United States,

423
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: we could get a record company and a songwriting deal

424
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: so that we could pay for transporting press music press

425
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: from around the world to see us play at at

426
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: whatever gig it was. So we dave I did. Had

427
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: to get the gig on a promise, had to get

428
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: the called company on a promise, and so on and

429
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: close the wall at the same pretty much at the

430
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: same time, which he which he did. Um, and that's

431
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: what we were set about doing. Well, that's what he

432
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: set about doing. So how did it play out? Um? Well?

433
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: So now now is there right to tell the story

434
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: about how he got us the gig? Friday afternoon in London,

435
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: he calls up and hearing names again, he's list with names.

436
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: Who was it that owned or ran ah those two

437
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: gigs on the West coast of Bill Graham? Bill Graham.

438
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: So he calls up Bill Graham's office, gets to speak

439
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: to Bill. Bill Graham says, I have a I have

440
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: a band, we have a we have a record deal,

441
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: and we want to fly the world's press to come

442
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: and see the band playing at the film Warriors. Bill

443
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: Graham thinks that I got a crazy guy on the

444
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: phone and says to Dave, Okay, send me the tape

445
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: and I'll see what we can do, and puts the

446
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: phone down and forgets all about us Dave. Dave gets

447
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: books a flight to San Francisco. I guess he was.

448
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: He was in And on Monday morning, when Bill Graham

449
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: comes into his office, David sitting in his office with

450
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: the tape. Um Bill Graham says, hello, who are you?

451
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: What can I do? Okay? So I called you on Friday.

452
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: I've got a band, We've got a record deal. We

453
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: want to fly the world's press to see them play

454
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: at the film War East. And I brought the tape.

455
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: You asked for the tape. Here it is. Bill gram said,

456
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: it's okay, I don't need the tape. You've got the game.

457
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: And that's how That's how Dave Romson did stuff. He

458
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: was a force of nature. You didn't say no, go

459
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: away at that point. Um so so yes, so we

460
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: got the gig, and I do want the whole story.

461
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: It goes on forever, okay. So I can only set

462
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: it from my my point of view. I know there's

463
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: lots of stuff out there that there's been a book

464
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: or books written. I haven't read very much of any

465
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: of them. Um, you know I was, I was there.

466
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: Really the book kind of boring. Um, So Dave tired

467
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: start at the beginning for the press. Here he got

468
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: all the pressed together. UM, who thought should come and

469
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: and rented a plane from air lingus. He was irish,

470
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: so maybe he had a few strings to pull. Um,

471
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: which was supposed to take the press from heath Row

472
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: to Kennedy. Um. He sorted out visa applications. We had

473
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: an exchange band. In those days, the musicians unions of

474
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: both countries had to agree before any visa could be granted,

475
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: so our musicians you had to to vet us and

476
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 1: make sure that there was another band from the States

477
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: coming to take our place, and vice versa. The band

478
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: that was chosen was Love, and I'm going to forget

479
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 1: the guy's name again. Who was the singer in Love? Arthur?

480
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: He developed laryngoitus a few days before the visas were

481
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: supposed to be done, so they're canceled the tour, which

482
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: meant that we didn't have an exchange band, which meant

483
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: we couldn't get visas. And we found this out less

484
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: than a week before we well actually less than a

485
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 1: less than two days before we were supposed to golf

486
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: and go to New York. In New York, we were

487
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: supposed to have three days rehearsal at the former East

488
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 1: with with our requested gear, some of our own, but

489
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: some hired our requested gear, and we were supposed to

490
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:33,439
Speaker 1: what we did buy or arrange for the front three

491
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: rows to be available for our press guests. The film

492
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: or East had had a deal where you could only

493
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: use cameras in the building up until a certain time,

494
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:54,720
Speaker 1: and that was agreed upon so that our drummer, Billy

495
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: he was. He had an American and an English passport,

496
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: so he didn't have a problem. He got his visa

497
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: and on the Tuesday morning before we were supposed to play,

498
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: he flew to to the States, um as I remember it.

499
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,959
Speaker 1: When we eventually managed to meet up again, he told

500
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: us that he had a limousine, came up from the airport,

501
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: drove into a hotel in Manhattan and settled him into

502
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: his room. The driver gave him his room number and said,

503
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: I'm I'm for you at any time, day or night

504
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 1: you want to go somewhere, you want to do something,

505
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: just give me a call and I'll be there in

506
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: ten minutes. So Billy says great because his room, tries

507
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: to relax as Jed lagged a bit freaked out because

508
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: he's by himself and where God knows where. He doesn't

509
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: know where we are, but at this point and so

510
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: he said in the after half an forty minutes and

511
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: decides he's going to go out, so it calls up

512
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 1: the driver. The driver says, no problem, meet me outside

513
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 1: the front in ten minutes. Billy goes down waiting. There's

514
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: a guy standing along the pavement from him, also looks

515
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: like he's waiting for something. A car pulls up, two

516
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 1: guys jump out, run across to the guy that's standing

517
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: there to billion nice hmendous stomach. Okay, this is this

518
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 1: is not the good news for Billy goes back to

519
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: his his room where he stays pretty much for the

520
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: for the remaining three days until we turn up. So

521
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: that that was that's his story. Dave says to us, Okay,

522
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 1: we've been refused visas. So we applied, but we're refused.

523
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 1: Um And says we'll go to Canada. We'll go to

524
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 1: Toronto and get visas there. They won't know that we've

525
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: been turned down. Here, it'll be it'll be easy. So

526
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: we get on the first flight to Toronto, check into

527
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: a hotel, go down to the American Embassy and fill

528
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 1: in the forms for visas to the United States. And

529
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: there's a question on the forms that says, have you

530
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: ever been refused a visa to the United States from

531
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: any country? So I think I got there first and

532
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: said today, what do we do about this question? Dave?

533
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: He says, just say no. So I said no, we

534
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 1: all did that. We filled them inside them off, took

535
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: them up to this guy who who was an all American.

536
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 1: That's that's what I'll say about him. He took them.

537
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 1: He didn't like us. We had long hair. And you know,

538
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:52,720
Speaker 1: this was then. It's different from very different from now. Um.

539
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: He took them and it was lunchtime. He said, come

540
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: back after lunch and you're you know, you'll have your papers.

541
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: So when we went back, we we got called the

542
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 1: same guy. He said, you guys think I'm that we're

543
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,879
Speaker 1: crazy here. I've got a million dollar computer behind me

544
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: that tells me that you were refused visas to the

545
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: United States just a day ago in London. And we

546
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: said yeah, mumblement, And he said and I so I

547
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,320
Speaker 1: remember this, this is this is a quote. You guys

548
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: want to go to the US of A. You got

549
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: no chance, At which point he threw our papers at

550
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: us and we left told between the legs and oh dear,

551
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: what do we do now? So then we all went

552
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: back to the hotel. We had a day visa to

553
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,839
Speaker 1: stay in Canada, so we didn't go out. But these

554
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: chances are we run into a policeman and get caught

555
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: for crossing the road where we shouldn't or something like that,

556
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: and they'd want to see our papers, and then we

557
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: get extradited. So we stayed in the hotel while Dave

558
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: went out with our record company are Canadian record company

559
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 1: guy who was great, supplied all kinds of we said

560
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,760
Speaker 1: we needed were pretty much eight burgers and watched our trek.

561
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: You m in the hotel and Dave was out trying UM.

562
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:36,359
Speaker 1: So I believe I believe a senator or someone high

563
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 1: up handled the deal for us, got us waved through.

564
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: And so on Friday, so the first gig, first set

565
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:53,280
Speaker 1: was Friday evening at seven o'clock. So Friday, just before lunch,

566
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: we turned up at the American Embassy, still in the

567
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 1: forms say yes to the dread question and hand them

568
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: in to the same guy who's not happy because he

569
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: knows that he's got to pass us. Um and he

570
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: really doesn't like this now. Um. So at half past

571
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: twelve he comes out from from the back and puts

572
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: a pile of papers which looked very much like our

573
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: three visa application forms with our passports on the on

574
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,760
Speaker 1: the counter in front of him, and then goes to lunch.

575
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: He comes back about hot past one and calls us

576
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: over and pushes the papers and visa to us without

577
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 1: saying a word. We take them, say thank you very much, uh,

578
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: and and go. And in that hour a ground crew

579
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: strike on the northeast coast in the United States is

580
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: IS is announced and there are no flight to or

581
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:10,720
Speaker 1: from um. So we hire a private little plane five

582
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 1: Caesar Cessna. I think it was flown by a Japanese

583
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:23,760
Speaker 1: Canadian who who was an agile flyer. I'll say he

584
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: he threw the plane across the sky quite a lot. Um.

585
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: I have a problem. I still have the same problem

586
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: as when I go up in a plane and my

587
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: ears pot they don't put, you know, the other way

588
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: around when I come down. So I came down. I

589
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: can't here very much. Um, and they hurt. So this

590
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: was I don't know what are their little planes fly

591
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: up for eight thousand feet so they were popping both

592
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: ways all the time. And by the time I got

593
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: I got well on the way. We landed at Buffalo

594
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 1: and we said, well, what's happening and he says, okay, passports.

595
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 1: So we all got our passports out, our precious visas

596
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: in them and hand them over. He said, no, I

597
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 1: don't need this. I just say, you're American businessmen going home.

598
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: So we didn't need a visa. As it turns out

599
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: there's a back door in to Toronto. Um. But so

600
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: so then we took off and then we landed and

601
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:29,240
Speaker 1: I'm this is guesswork now, but I'd say around six o'clock,

602
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: five thirties, six o'clock in some field. It was just

603
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 1: a field. It didn't seem like an airport at all,

604
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 1: but but we landed in it. There were there were

605
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: four limousines, one each, one for day, one for the

606
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 1: three of us. My guy I got in. He was

607
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: playing the best music I've I've ever heard, handed me

608
00:43:54,360 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 1: the requirements and and drove drove me in in in

609
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: the key with the others a little limousine cavalcade. Um.

610
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 1: And the thing that struck me, the great thing that

611
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,959
Speaker 1: struck me was that the DJ playing the music, which

612
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 1: was or you know, all of the good stuff Van Morrison,

613
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 1: Motown Hendrick. Yeah, just really good, properly music. And he

614
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 1: didn't say where. The DJ didn't say a word until

615
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: the half hour came, at which point he said, you

616
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: just listened to and read out all the names, and

617
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,240
Speaker 1: then started playing the next half hours worth of music,

618
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: which was in this country DJs, you know, they seem

619
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:50,240
Speaker 1: to think that the radio show is is their vehicle

620
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: to stardom in some way. You know, it's not. It's

621
00:44:54,719 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: not to do and play music for people. And they

622
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: always talk over the outros where some of the quite

623
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: often some of the good stuff is sit sitting and refers. Anyway,

624
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: I thought he it was great to hear that. Um.

625
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 1: I think by the time we got in the dressing

626
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 1: room it was quarter to seven, so we put on

627
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 1: our stage clothes, got the guitars out and went and

628
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: played the first sect, which was not very good, very disjointed.

629
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: I'd hear anything, so I had to read people's lips

630
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: to see where we were in the songs some of

631
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: the time it was it was not good. The second show,

632
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 1: I don't know what I say. The next thing we

633
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,240
Speaker 1: did was we went to the to the dressing room

634
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: and Nick went downstairs to to watch, and the rest

635
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: of the stayed up there. And after ten minutes and

636
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 1: so Nick turned up and said, Okay, you've all got

637
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: to come down and watch this. This is astonishing. So

638
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: we're all pretty shattered by this point, but we all

639
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: went downstairs and watched Dan Morrison, who was blindingly good.

640
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: The band were blindingly good, and he was two. It

641
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 1: was amazing, and that one show was enough where we

642
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: saw him three more times, but that one show was

643
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 1: enough change our minds about quite a lot of stuff

644
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: in the what we wanted to be like, what we

645
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 1: wanted to play, what was important to us um and

646
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: then we played. We played the other shows. The the

647
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 1: press had a dreadful time. The plane was late because

648
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 1: it had problems taking off from Shannon Airport. It had

649
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,319
Speaker 1: to be fixed that he throw, and those days that

650
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: he throw if he went past the passport check. There

651
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: was only one thing and that was a bar which

652
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: when as the plane was four hours late, the press

653
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 1: utilized AH quite a lot. Uh. Then they they took

654
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 1: off and developed landing geve fault and had to land

655
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: at Shannon Airport and the only thing there is a bar.

656
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: They only do two types of drink or then they

657
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: needed two jobs and that was guinness and an Irish whiskey.

658
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 1: And so when they finally managed to to make the

659
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 1: journey and land late at this point at Kennedy, they

660
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: were pretty wasted bunch. And because they were late, there

661
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,240
Speaker 1: was the plane was supposed to arrive sort of midday

662
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 1: ish where the traffic wouldn't be too bad, but instead

663
00:47:55,440 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 1: they arrived just as the as the Russia started it.

664
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 1: So I think they were eighteen stretched limas to take

665
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: them to the to the hotel potentially, but ended up

666
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 1: to the to the gear uh and sitting police on motorbikes.

667
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,879
Speaker 1: There was a lot of sirens and stuff going on

668
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: UM and I think three of them crashed and didn't

669
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 1: make it, and and the ones that did while half

670
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:35,359
Speaker 1: of them went back to the hotel because they were

671
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 1: so shattered they just wanted to get to bed, so

672
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 1: they never even came. By the time they arrived, the

673
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 1: camera UM rule had had come into operation. No cameras

674
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 1: after a certain time. They were after a certain time. Um,

675
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: they'd opened the doors, so the public went in there

676
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 1: when no nobody's sitting in the front three rows. So

677
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,359
Speaker 1: the public just used went and sat in the front

678
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: three roads. So when the press arrived, their place at

679
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 1: the front had been had been taken. There were lots

680
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 1: of camera men, so they were refused entry with their cameras.

681
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 1: I know a couple of them had their cameras smashed

682
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: with complained and and they who ever got in, I

683
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:32,839
Speaker 1: don't know how many. How many of them did get in,

684
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,240
Speaker 1: they just had to sit where they could find a seat.

685
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:40,839
Speaker 1: And we knew that they were they were there, but

686
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 1: we also knew that there had been a problem that

687
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 1: had not been kept away from us, and so we

688
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 1: went We went out not knowing what, you know, who

689
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 1: was there, what was going to happen the front three

690
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 1: rosere people or are they just people? And so we

691
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 1: we saw they were just people. Um, And that was

692
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 1: the worst of the four gigs that we played. We

693
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 1: were stiff, I'm together and really really nervous. Uh. The

694
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,919
Speaker 1: fourth gig was it was all over. So he really

695
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 1: didn't care anymore and really played quite well, and and

696
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: things things like occasional solos or or question answer bits

697
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 1: in the in the music were applauded people. Some people

698
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 1: whooped and kind of thing. And we used to do

699
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 1: us a little country is song called rock and Roll Women,

700
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 1: which is which was humorous um, and people laughed, so

701
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 1: it went. It went much better. Um. When we got back,

702
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: we spent another day and a half I think, taking

703
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 1: photographs and stuff, and Rumson turned up again. We went

704
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 1: to is Riker's Island. Not allowed. Yeah, you're not allowed

705
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 1: to go there. We didn't know you weren't allowed, and

706
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 1: just drove on there and hung around and took pictures stuff,

707
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: and the police came. And there's a great photo of

708
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 1: that that Dave has of him with his with his

709
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 1: one hand on his head talking to a New York

710
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 1: policeman who's got his hand on his gun. Um. And

711
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 1: and you know they were going to haul us off

712
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: until they found out the a that we were English

713
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: and be that we were a pop band and so

714
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 1: knew nothing of not being allowed on Writer's Island, and

715
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:50,320
Speaker 1: they said, hey, that's called you got a new records.

716
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, um, but that was Dave again. Dave put

717
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 1: in a situation where his band were out to be

718
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 1: arrested at gunpoint, um and turning it all good within

719
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 1: ten minutes. It was he was so good at that. Okay,

720
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 1: So despite the debarcle, you end up making five records

721
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: as Brimley Shots. Okay, how do you ultimately call it?

722
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:32,359
Speaker 1: Quit there and go to work with Graham Parker? Well,

723
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 1: the two are not are not are not aligned in

724
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 1: any way that their separate things. So the band Van

725
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 1: quick Nick called it. And you know, I was quite

726
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 1: shocked at the time. Um, we'd lived together for nine

727
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: on five years and done everything together and been through

728
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 1: you know, what you could call hell and high water.

729
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: There was no violence involved, but we've we've been through

730
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. Um, And so I was, I

731
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 1: was surprised our own reflection, and I guess I shouldn't

732
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 1: have been really a bit. We've been treading water for

733
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 1: a year or so. Um. So so we broke up.

734
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 1: We didn't have anything. We were living in a rented

735
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:39,800
Speaker 1: farmhouse and northwestern of London, and all we had was

736
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: our gear and we had a monster p A. So

737
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 1: we all took a piece and and went our our way. Um.

738
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 1: I took my family or we tried. We tried squatting

739
00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:03,839
Speaker 1: and got kicked out pretty quit and so I we

740
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 1: ended up again to stay with my parents. When you

741
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 1: say we are you married at this point? What was

742
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 1: going on? Married with two children? And what do you

743
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 1: living on stuff from? We have a long time and

744
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,399
Speaker 1: we've had a place called the ox Fam Shop, which

745
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 1: is second hand for charity. Sure, so you could buy

746
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: you a pair of second hand jeans or a shirt

747
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 1: for fifty cents. Well, you know, we lived, we lived together,

748
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 1: and we had we had no money. All the money

749
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 1: went on the band going forward, and there were three

750
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 1: children living there and so some of the money went

751
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 1: to make sure that they were okay, and the rest

752
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 1: of the time we just carried on. And you get

753
00:54:56,560 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 1: to that point when in a band sometimes when what

754
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 1: you're doing is so that you can do the next

755
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:05,720
Speaker 1: when you're earning money, so that you've got enough money

756
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 1: to go and do the next gig or the next

757
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 1: album or whatever. Um. Yeah, that's that's what we lived

758
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: and we lived on nothing. Okay, So you go back

759
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 1: to live with your you go back to live with

760
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 1: your parents. The band is broken up, Yeah, okay, So

761
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 1: how do you get yourself out of that hole. Um,

762
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 1: I didn't really to start with. Um Martin who who

763
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 1: lived with us in the big house in Northward. Um

764
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 1: he'd he'd he'd been, he'd roaded for us, uh and

765
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 1: left and formed a band called Ducks to Lucks. He

766
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: called me up and said, hey, you want to join

767
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 1: the Ducks. So I said, yeah, great, So I joined

768
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:00,319
Speaker 1: Ducks Lucks, who are also a pup up and who

769
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 1: are different from us in that we were very very

770
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: laid back. We we played sometimes we played things purposefully

771
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:13,759
Speaker 1: slow because the groove was better there. We wanted to

772
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 1: be That's what we were looking for. The Ducks, on

773
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 1: the other hand, played everything lightning fast. The drama was

774
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:24,359
Speaker 1: could say one, two, three, four faster than anyone I've

775
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 1: ever I've ever heard. Um. So it was a bit

776
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: of a bit of a culture shot me. But um

777
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 1: and I think that was maybe two two and a

778
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 1: half months. And then they broke up, which made me

779
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 1: wonder what was the cause of something? But and then

780
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 1: and then after after a bit, so I had I

781
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 1: had virtually nothing. I had one guitar, a saxophone, and

782
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 1: so I played saxophone when my parents were out, and

783
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:06,120
Speaker 1: and guitar whenever I could and wrote a few songs.

784
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 1: You know. It was just a musician living at home.

785
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 1: And then there was another phone call, which was Dave

786
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 1: Robinson who told me that he had he had a

787
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:24,959
Speaker 1: studio that he was learning how to use. He had

788
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 1: a tube desk that had belonged to Decca Records, um.

789
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 1: And what his plan was was if any time he

790
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 1: heard of or heard a singer, songwriter or a musician

791
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 1: that he thought was worthwhile helping, he would invite them

792
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:54,920
Speaker 1: two make a demo recording in his studio. That way

793
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:58,439
Speaker 1: he would help them get a demo, he would help

794
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 1: them maybe get advanced to a record deal of some description.

795
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:07,479
Speaker 1: And he'd learned how to uses his equipment. Is he'd

796
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 1: be an engineer as well as record producing person. And say,

797
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 1: he said, I have this guy, Um, he writes great songs.

798
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 1: I think you'd really like him. And so we're making

799
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 1: a demo and and then he said Martin and Bob

800
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 1: Bob Andrews from the from the Brens List and Martin

801
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: Belmont from Ducks there with us with two guys from

802
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 1: a reggae ban. And now I really can't remember that

803
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:43,440
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about this. I can't remember the name,

804
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 1: but they've just broken up also, and that was Steve

805
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 1: Golding and Andrew Bodner, and so this is this is

806
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 1: how I remember I remember it. I'm not convinced that

807
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 1: everyone remembers this the same way. We've talked about it

808
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 1: more recently and we end up saying no, no, no,

809
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: that's not how it went at all. So so as

810
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 1: far as I remember, we went, we we went and

811
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 1: did these demo songs with Graham Parker. That that's who

812
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 1: it was. It was Grand Parce. So we met Graham Parker.

813
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 1: Martin might have met him earlier because he'd been Martin

814
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 1: lived as an open anchor, which was the pub where

815
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 1: Dave had his studio. Um, And as we were packing up,

816
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 1: I was thinking, oh, that went really well. That was

817
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:47,560
Speaker 1: really good. That was good, good fun. Everybody got on

818
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: really well, So I said, I think. I said, well

819
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 1: that was good fun, wasn't it. And everybody's stilar to

820
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 1: me and said yeah, it was pretty good. So I said,

821
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 1: anyone found see you getting together and just to play

822
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 1: somewhere if we can find somewhere to play, anybody in

823
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 1: fancy noodling on some songs? So and everyone said yes.

824
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 1: So a little bit after that Martin who knew the

825
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 1: proprietors at Newland's Tavern which is in southeast London in

826
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: Peckham Uh, and they said, yeah, they had like a

827
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:31,439
Speaker 1: function room, quite a large room as part of the pub.

828
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 1: UM and they said we could use the function room

829
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 1: in the afternoons where the pub was closed, with one proviser,

830
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 1: and that is if we ever formed a band and

831
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 1: did a gig, we do the first gig at their pub.

832
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:50,120
Speaker 1: So we thought that was a pretty fair deal. So

833
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 1: we took us. So we started playing together for the

834
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 1: hell of it. Basically, we we played songs that we liked,

835
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:03,720
Speaker 1: played songs any song that anybody wanted to sing. We've

836
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:08,439
Speaker 1: played songs that we've written or we're trying to write. Um.

837
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 1: And for two three months I would say it went.

838
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 1: It was really good. We started to we call on

839
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 1: better and better all the time, and we were sort

840
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 1: of approaching the time where we probably could have could

841
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 1: have done a gig or some gigs had we wanted to,

842
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 1: but it never anybody because we were doing it because

843
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 1: we enjoyed it. UM. And then and then Day phoned

844
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 1: up again he's got a record deal for Graham based

845
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 1: upon the for three tracks, and the record company wanted

846
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 1: us to back him on the album and on touring.

847
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: So not wanting to be a band and not want

848
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 1: into tour or sign anything with anybody, we agreed that

849
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 1: we play on the album and do one tour and

850
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 1: that started at the end of and at the end

851
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy six, we've had thirteen days off as

852
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 1: far as I remember, its five or six tours of England,

853
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 1: one of Europe, two of the United States, and made

854
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 1: two albums and we're about to make the route what

855
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:38,720
Speaker 1: was what was going to be the Rumor's first solo album. Okay,

856
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,280
Speaker 1: let's talk about Graham Parker for a minute. You know,

857
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 1: he comes out. He's a phenomenon. Ironically, he's playing relatively

858
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 1: straight ahead music when the new wave and stiff records

859
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 1: and Elvis Costello becomes a thing. But the first two

860
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 1: records are phenomenon. I'm one of the few people who

861
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:58,959
Speaker 1: enjoys listening to Heat Treatment more. Something I'm going through

862
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:03,439
Speaker 1: has got a reggae a feel soul in the Maelstrom.

863
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 1: Did you feel that this was going to break big?

864
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 1: Did you? What was it like being inside the engine

865
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: because it's got a lot more publicity, a lot more

866
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 1: traction than Brinsley shots. Um. Yeah, so that the things

867
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 1: that you when you're on the road, that the things

868
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 1: about what's happening with the press and what's happening with

869
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 1: sales and the rest of it. You they're they're told

870
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 1: to you. But and they it's not that they go

871
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:42,000
Speaker 1: in one ear and come out the other. It's just

872
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 1: that you're occupied because you're playing all the time. And

873
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:50,960
Speaker 1: so if you've got any spare time to think about anything,

874
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 1: you listen to somebody else's music. But there's not very

875
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 1: much time to do that either, So I missed huge

876
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 1: chunks of music. But as I was playing all the time,

877
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 1: and so you you know, you get to hear that

878
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 1: things are going well and then they don't for some reason,

879
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 1: and you see people around you moving up. Um I don't.

880
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if we made any potential hit records. Um,

881
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:26,560
Speaker 1: at the time, I would have known what a hit

882
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:31,200
Speaker 1: record was like. Um, I had I had two young

883
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 1: daughters that they they turned me onto Adam and the

884
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 1: Ants and a few bands from the early eighties. But yeah,

885
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 1: it time goes past and you do stuff, and some

886
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:52,360
Speaker 1: of it works, some of it doesn't, and to me

887
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 1: that's pretty much. But it is out of your hands.

888
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 1: You can't influence it in in any or many ways.

889
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 1: So so you just go along and I guess if

890
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 1: you don't like it enough, you you go somewhere else.

891
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:13,840
Speaker 1: But the overriding thing for me anyway, and I would

892
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 1: say for everybody in the band, is that we all

893
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 1: really like Graham Parker's songs and really enjoyed playing them.

894
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:29,480
Speaker 1: And that's for me. That's good enough. Sending a whole

895
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 1: lot more money than I had been before of the Prinsidents.

896
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 1: So were you making any money? Yeah, a little bit

897
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 1: of money. I wouldn't have said that we were not rich,

898
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:45,680
Speaker 1: but we got by. Okay. So you're on the road

899
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 1: essentially every day. How does that affect your marriage? Um?

900
01:05:52,320 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 1: We're okay? Now that are you still married to that? Bleay? Um,

901
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:05,840
Speaker 1: we're together, let's put it that way. I gotta ask

902
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:09,920
Speaker 1: what that means. It means that we're we're we're together

903
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 1: where we're happy together. Okay, But you made it sound

904
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:21,600
Speaker 1: like but you're still married? Correct? Yes? No? No? Did

905
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:25,440
Speaker 1: you get divorced and at some point you never you

906
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:29,920
Speaker 1: never got married? Which one is it we were divorced,

907
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:36,720
Speaker 1: recently divorced. Yeah, nothing to do with being in a band.

908
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 1: What causes a divorce at this stage of life? Goodness

909
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 1: only knows. I you know, I'm not a psychiatrist or

910
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 1: a psychologist, so I have no idea. I do know

911
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 1: one thing, and that is that UM. Being in a

912
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:02,720
Speaker 1: relationship uh is is a deep thing if it's going

913
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:09,280
Speaker 1: to work forever, um and can be hard. Work things

914
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:15,000
Speaker 1: things out of your hand. Um, get in the way

915
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:21,120
Speaker 1: of stuff. It's difficult, stop surprising. Ready? Is there a

916
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 1: third party involved? That's Noah, Okay, So let's go back

917
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:32,080
Speaker 1: to Graham Parker. You work with Mutt Lane, who then

918
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:35,480
Speaker 1: goes on to be considered one of the great record producers.

919
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 1: Reilly has success and in my phenomenal Did you realize

920
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:44,960
Speaker 1: he had that level of talent at the time? No, No,

921
01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 1: I didn't. And the bands, which is from Mercury to

922
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:56,760
Speaker 1: hera staff, was that something you felt in the band? Um? Well,

923
01:07:57,600 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 1: you have to you have to remember that Graham Parker

924
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:03,040
Speaker 1: as an entity other than the rumor. I know we

925
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 1: did everything together, but we were not the rumor, were

926
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:11,800
Speaker 1: not signed um to anyone. We had We eventually had

927
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:20,160
Speaker 1: a sorry, um A record deal with Arista as the rumor. Um,

928
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:25,400
Speaker 1: so where where Graham went? So it it seemed like

929
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:28,960
Speaker 1: the move from me Cree too Arista was a good idea.

930
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:36,280
Speaker 1: But it's business stuff. I don't know. I have no idea. Okay,

931
01:08:36,320 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 1: So the band is not signed to the label, but

932
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 1: was just on everyday life. Because you're playing all these gigs,

933
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:46,920
Speaker 1: is Graham separate from you or you feel that you're

934
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 1: all in it together? I, having having been in the

935
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:56,639
Speaker 1: in the Brindles, being in the Brinslees changes, I want

936
01:08:56,680 --> 01:09:00,200
Speaker 1: to believe that you are in it all together. We

937
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:05,760
Speaker 1: weren't ordering it together and so rightly or wrongly, that

938
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:13,920
Speaker 1: was my my impression for philosophical idea of how it was.

939
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:16,880
Speaker 1: That's what I didn't think about it a lot. I

940
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:21,920
Speaker 1: just you just do what you do and and pretty

941
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:25,639
Speaker 1: much what I did was as as if we were

942
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:30,400
Speaker 1: all together. So I think that's how we were. Okay,

943
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:36,840
Speaker 1: So hard does it end with the band in Graham? Um?

944
01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:40,760
Speaker 1: I think Graham came to a full stop. Um. I

945
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:48,680
Speaker 1: think he was unhappy with with the way things were going. Um,

946
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:52,519
Speaker 1: with the amount of money that we he and was

947
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 1: put into into touring and all the all the other stuff.

948
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:03,320
Speaker 1: I think he needed to to stop for a while

949
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:11,880
Speaker 1: and gather gather himself again and change things to to

950
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:16,840
Speaker 1: he was not happy with. So it was it was

951
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:20,679
Speaker 1: completely amicable. We just he just said, I'm I'm stopping

952
01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 1: and you guys go do what you what you want

953
01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 1: to do. Okay. The Graham peels off like a stage

954
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:32,800
Speaker 1: of a rocket. Where does that leave you in the

955
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 1: Rumor and what happens there? Uh? The Rumor carried on

956
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:45,559
Speaker 1: as a four piece without Bob andrews um And we

957
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:50,479
Speaker 1: made we made another album, so that would be our

958
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:57,680
Speaker 1: third album without Graham um And and we had to

959
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:03,680
Speaker 1: make that twice. There was a record company thing that

960
01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 1: that we had to obey a certain thing in a

961
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 1: in a contract which we didn't obey, and and so

962
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:17,040
Speaker 1: we had we had a record that was released in

963
01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 1: the in the UK, and then another version which so

964
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:25,879
Speaker 1: we re recorded everything, which was released in the United States.

965
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 1: Which one was better? Well, they were, they were different. Actually,

966
01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:34,200
Speaker 1: we were talking about it the other day. One of

967
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:37,640
Speaker 1: the songs is on it is have You Seen My Baby?

968
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:43,639
Speaker 1: Which is a Randy Newman song. Uh, And Steve emailed

969
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 1: us all and said, I probably said, now I heard

970
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:52,720
Speaker 1: all this, I think ours was better. Um, yeah, I

971
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 1: guess the the USA one was was better. It was

972
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:00,840
Speaker 1: definitely it was definitely looser feeling. So how does it

973
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 1: grind to a halt with the rumor? Just it just

974
01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:07,840
Speaker 1: does stuff. You know, if you if you can't get

975
01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:10,240
Speaker 1: work that you can afford to do, or that is

976
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 1: is not what you want to be doing, then it

977
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:20,000
Speaker 1: all it all stops, and and Steve and I carried

978
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:27,000
Speaker 1: on playing. We played with Garland Jeffries, Um the band

979
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:31,840
Speaker 1: played with Garden Jeffries. We supported and backed him um

980
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:38,040
Speaker 1: and then later Steve and I went on to play

981
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:43,160
Speaker 1: with him on another tour. Um and then and then

982
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:46,800
Speaker 1: that stopped. And so that was the end of the

983
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:51,040
Speaker 1: rumor and split up by then. Okay, but ultimately you

984
01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:56,160
Speaker 1: go straight you give up the music. How does that

985
01:12:57,360 --> 01:13:03,400
Speaker 1: tell me the far process there? Um? Well, getting back

986
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:07,040
Speaker 1: a bit um. When Graham got himself together again and

987
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:12,800
Speaker 1: made made another another his next album, I was in

988
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:20,040
Speaker 1: New York converting our agents newly acquired loft building or

989
01:13:20,160 --> 01:13:26,599
Speaker 1: loft floor into a five room office. Did I did

990
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:33,680
Speaker 1: all the the walls, all the electricity blurred, the ceilings,

991
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:37,559
Speaker 1: all of that and made it into a pretty cool

992
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:41,760
Speaker 1: office space. And while that was. While I was doing that,

993
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:46,679
Speaker 1: I was I was staying with with Alan or agent

994
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:51,880
Speaker 1: um And and Graham was looking for a guitar player.

995
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:56,280
Speaker 1: He had the risk of the band All Americans um

996
01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:59,280
Speaker 1: And was looking for a guitar player. And they had

997
01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 1: arranged long much and came up with with no one.

998
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:08,880
Speaker 1: And Alan said, Brinsley's staying with me, and Graham said yeah, okay,

999
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:13,200
Speaker 1: was he up for it? And so I had obviously said,

1000
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:16,880
Speaker 1: you know, if he asked, I'm up for it. Alan said, yes,

1001
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:19,519
Speaker 1: he's up for it. Graham, why didn't I think of that?

1002
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:23,280
Speaker 1: And so I got back playing. And then through the

1003
01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:29,080
Speaker 1: eighties I played, made four albums, produced Mona, Lisa's sister

1004
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:35,960
Speaker 1: and Human Soul with him and so, and toured with

1005
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:42,439
Speaker 1: him UM. But in one I started very loosely working

1006
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 1: fixing guitars and did one day a week at the

1007
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:51,320
Speaker 1: store UM, which I really enjoyed. They were really good

1008
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:55,000
Speaker 1: to me. They allowed me to go off and and

1009
01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:57,599
Speaker 1: play on tours and make records. So I had spent

1010
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:00,720
Speaker 1: six months working with Graham and said months working in

1011
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:04,759
Speaker 1: this store fixing guitars, and that got busier and busier

1012
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:09,560
Speaker 1: until I was working five six days a week. UM

1013
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:15,760
Speaker 1: and then in nine late I think we were we

1014
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:21,639
Speaker 1: were touring and in America. I think it was Lost

1015
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:25,080
Speaker 1: A and LX that I was. I was walking to

1016
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:29,880
Speaker 1: the plane perfectly, okay. I was not freaked out or anything,

1017
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:35,200
Speaker 1: not worried. And I don't really do that anymore. I

1018
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:38,040
Speaker 1: don't don't recall. But they used to put yellow and

1019
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:43,200
Speaker 1: black take a big wide yellow and black tape across

1020
01:15:43,240 --> 01:15:47,799
Speaker 1: the floor where you were going from one area to another.

1021
01:15:48,920 --> 01:15:51,920
Speaker 1: And I reached this tape, which was at the top

1022
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:54,559
Speaker 1: of the the shoot what are those calls the shoots

1023
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:59,840
Speaker 1: that you walked down to plays gateway. I was walking towards.

1024
01:16:00,280 --> 01:16:03,599
Speaker 1: I got to it and stopped and I looked down.

1025
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:06,880
Speaker 1: I wasn't even looking. I just stopped and I looked down.

1026
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:11,120
Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting. There's that yellow and black tape. Went

1027
01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:14,439
Speaker 1: to put my foot across it, and I couldn't, so right,

1028
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:18,479
Speaker 1: I was perplexed. I turned around, walked away, came back

1029
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:24,559
Speaker 1: at speed, stopped, dried for about ten minutes, and stopped

1030
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 1: every time I ran at it stopped. And I was

1031
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:32,280
Speaker 1: standing there and they were calling last call for the flight,

1032
01:16:33,200 --> 01:16:37,080
Speaker 1: and our keyboard player, who had a tendency to leave

1033
01:16:37,160 --> 01:16:40,519
Speaker 1: everything until the very last moment, walked up behind me,

1034
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:43,800
Speaker 1: put his hands on my shoulder and said, friends, thanks

1035
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:45,960
Speaker 1: for waiting for me, and pushed me across the line,

1036
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:48,479
Speaker 1: at which point I walked down to the plane. I

1037
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:51,040
Speaker 1: had a very pleasant flight up to I think it

1038
01:16:51,120 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 1: was to Oregon, um, and that was the last flies

1039
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:04,240
Speaker 1: apart from flying back to England on that tour. And

1040
01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:07,880
Speaker 1: I got someone to push me over the line, and

1041
01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:10,599
Speaker 1: I s that's how I got on the plane and

1042
01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:14,880
Speaker 1: came back to England. And then for from then until

1043
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:21,040
Speaker 1: I didn't fly, and I knew that I couldn't get

1044
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:27,000
Speaker 1: on an airplane again. Um, and then so when when

1045
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:29,160
Speaker 1: I that sort of backed it up for me. Really

1046
01:17:29,560 --> 01:17:33,559
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it anymore? Wait wait, wait, wait wait,

1047
01:17:33,640 --> 01:17:36,240
Speaker 1: what was going on there? In retrospect twenty years you

1048
01:17:36,240 --> 01:17:39,639
Speaker 1: couldn't fly? Did you just have a pianic attack? How

1049
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:42,439
Speaker 1: did you get over it? I didn't know what. I

1050
01:17:42,479 --> 01:17:44,080
Speaker 1: didn't need to get over it because I never got

1051
01:17:44,120 --> 01:17:48,040
Speaker 1: on a plane. I was pushed twice and was okay, well,

1052
01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:49,880
Speaker 1: well you haven't met but you started to get on

1053
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:56,519
Speaker 1: planes again? Correct? Yes? So how did you do that? Um?

1054
01:17:56,720 --> 01:17:59,640
Speaker 1: I went to the doctors and said, I've got to

1055
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:02,479
Speaker 1: I've got to fly. I have a problem getting on

1056
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:06,040
Speaker 1: the plane. Um, I've got to fly to the States.

1057
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:08,599
Speaker 1: And so I was wondering if there's anything you could

1058
01:18:08,680 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 1: give me that would would arm me enough to get

1059
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:15,400
Speaker 1: on the plane. And she very kindly said, just have

1060
01:18:15,479 --> 01:18:18,040
Speaker 1: a couple of bottles, a couple a couple of glasses

1061
01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:22,120
Speaker 1: of red wine and you'll be fine. So Martin said

1062
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:26,639
Speaker 1: he would help. Martin's not very happy flying either, So

1063
01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:28,960
Speaker 1: I thought, this is going to be fun. Someone who

1064
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:33,560
Speaker 1: doesn't like flying with somebody who can't get or a plane. Um.

1065
01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:37,960
Speaker 1: And we got to We got to Heathrow Terminal five,

1066
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:42,680
Speaker 1: which was very pleasant. Oh walked around for a bit

1067
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:44,439
Speaker 1: and then saw that it was time we could go

1068
01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:46,920
Speaker 1: and check in. So we went to the check in desk,

1069
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:51,600
Speaker 1: presented our passports and papers and every saying tickets and

1070
01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:54,439
Speaker 1: the guy said, ah, I'm very sorry to have to

1071
01:18:54,439 --> 01:18:58,720
Speaker 1: tell you that your plane has been delayed. So I

1072
01:18:58,920 --> 01:19:02,120
Speaker 1: so I said, so I'd had the two glasses of

1073
01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:07,200
Speaker 1: wine by now, so I I laughed and said, and

1074
01:19:08,479 --> 01:19:11,000
Speaker 1: so what are you doing? And he said, We're getting

1075
01:19:11,080 --> 01:19:14,840
Speaker 1: another one, and and I said, and that one will

1076
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:20,920
Speaker 1: be all right. Um. And so they spluttered a bit

1077
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:24,160
Speaker 1: and he said, yes, sir, that one would be fine. Uh,

1078
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:33,559
Speaker 1: And and it was. But um, the wine had taken

1079
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:37,240
Speaker 1: its effect. I needed more. And so I don't remember

1080
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:39,880
Speaker 1: an awful lot about what happened after that, but I

1081
01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:45,759
Speaker 1: overswine and and and have flown quite quite a reasonable

1082
01:19:45,800 --> 01:19:51,720
Speaker 1: amount since. And uh enjoyed it and not had a problem.

1083
01:19:51,960 --> 01:20:03,719
Speaker 1: Do you still drink the two glasses of wine? Absolutely? Yes? Yeah, okay,

1084
01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:05,840
Speaker 1: So tell me about the period when you couldn't fly

1085
01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:10,759
Speaker 1: what you were doing. I fixed guitars in the store.

1086
01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:13,840
Speaker 1: I branched out of my my by myself a couple

1087
01:20:13,840 --> 01:20:17,599
Speaker 1: of times. I got so this is this is about.

1088
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:22,160
Speaker 1: From the moment that I heard Apache, the only thing

1089
01:20:22,240 --> 01:20:26,000
Speaker 1: that I was really in love with in terms of

1090
01:20:26,040 --> 01:20:35,000
Speaker 1: things were guitars, electric tiars. UM completely fascinated by them.

1091
01:20:35,120 --> 01:20:39,040
Speaker 1: I loved I like looking at them and pouring over them.

1092
01:20:39,160 --> 01:20:43,799
Speaker 1: It's a it's a boyhood fascination that never never went away.

1093
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:46,240
Speaker 1: So to be able to work on them all day

1094
01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:48,439
Speaker 1: long and be paid for it, and be able to

1095
01:20:48,479 --> 01:20:53,200
Speaker 1: play them while you're fixing them and learning about why

1096
01:20:53,280 --> 01:20:55,120
Speaker 1: they go wrong and how they go wrong and how

1097
01:20:55,160 --> 01:21:00,200
Speaker 1: to fix them was was fascinating and I'm lucky to

1098
01:21:00,360 --> 01:21:03,880
Speaker 1: have to have been able to do that, to be

1099
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:08,599
Speaker 1: with guitars, the thing that I love all my life. Okay,

1100
01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:12,000
Speaker 1: I have a good Gibson Acoustic s J. My mother

1101
01:21:12,160 --> 01:21:14,479
Speaker 1: left it in the cross space. It's got some mold

1102
01:21:14,640 --> 01:21:19,920
Speaker 1: on the top. Is that something you could fix? I'd

1103
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:23,080
Speaker 1: have to as as all repairs say, I would have

1104
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:26,599
Speaker 1: to see it. But potentially yes. Okay, well I'm asking

1105
01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:28,679
Speaker 1: really because you're in the UK and I'm in the US,

1106
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:32,200
Speaker 1: and we're not going to actually do this. Um, you

1107
01:21:32,280 --> 01:21:37,360
Speaker 1: can do things besides the trust rod and adjusting strings.

1108
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:40,960
Speaker 1: You can work on the whole instrument. Yeah, I'm not.

1109
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:44,840
Speaker 1: I'm not so good inside acoustic guitars that that, you know,

1110
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:49,479
Speaker 1: fixing struts and things like that. That's um, that's that's difference.

1111
01:21:50,400 --> 01:21:57,320
Speaker 1: But refretting, fret dressing, as I call it. Um, that's

1112
01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:01,559
Speaker 1: that's a complicated thing. So don't it do strange things?

1113
01:22:03,240 --> 01:22:07,639
Speaker 1: And so if a guitar needs setting up, it also

1114
01:22:07,800 --> 01:22:12,240
Speaker 1: might need a refret, which is a big job and

1115
01:22:12,360 --> 01:22:17,800
Speaker 1: has to be done carefully and accurately. Um. But the

1116
01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:23,000
Speaker 1: main The main thing is is that I I because

1117
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:26,040
Speaker 1: I've been a guitar player for so long, I kind

1118
01:22:26,080 --> 01:22:30,479
Speaker 1: of intuitively know how a guitar is supposed to feel.

1119
01:22:31,080 --> 01:22:34,720
Speaker 1: When when I'm during the final part of setting up

1120
01:22:34,720 --> 01:22:38,479
Speaker 1: a guitar, which is which do with the nut and

1121
01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:42,720
Speaker 1: the trust rod and the action, there seems to be

1122
01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:46,240
Speaker 1: a sweet spot, and I am prepared to work until

1123
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:51,040
Speaker 1: I find the sweet spot if it's there, and find

1124
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:56,559
Speaker 1: her ball. That that's my my thing. I'm interested in

1125
01:22:56,640 --> 01:23:01,519
Speaker 1: making guitars feel like guitar players think they should. Okay,

1126
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:07,360
Speaker 1: my understanding is a professional of your caliber would not

1127
01:23:07,640 --> 01:23:13,479
Speaker 1: play a guitar off the rack, that they would immediately

1128
01:23:13,560 --> 01:23:15,680
Speaker 1: send it to someone like you to set it up.

1129
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:22,160
Speaker 1: Is that true? Um? Yeah, I think, Um, I haven't

1130
01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:25,160
Speaker 1: I haven't tried all of them, but yes, in general,

1131
01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:28,840
Speaker 1: there isn't a There isn't a guitar, so there are

1132
01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:32,280
Speaker 1: specialist makers, but in the run of the mill guitars

1133
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:37,599
Speaker 1: that there isn't one that wouldn't benefit from at least

1134
01:23:37,600 --> 01:23:40,160
Speaker 1: a set up and probably possibly a fret dress in

1135
01:23:40,240 --> 01:23:43,280
Speaker 1: a setup. And just to be clear, a setup would

1136
01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:48,599
Speaker 1: entail without the threat that would entail adjusting the trust

1137
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:51,479
Speaker 1: rod so that the neck was true as true as

1138
01:23:51,479 --> 01:23:57,200
Speaker 1: it can be. Um. They the action and the nutcuts correctly,

1139
01:23:57,320 --> 01:24:03,920
Speaker 1: the nut slots but correctly. UM, and adjustments to make

1140
01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:06,120
Speaker 1: sure that it plays in tune all the way up

1141
01:24:06,200 --> 01:24:13,640
Speaker 1: to next. Okay, is this lucrative business? Um? If you

1142
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:20,439
Speaker 1: were doing it for yourself, yes, if you were doing

1143
01:24:20,479 --> 01:24:26,480
Speaker 1: it in a store, um not. Wages are not fabulously

1144
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:30,000
Speaker 1: I So you would go back and forth being independent?

1145
01:24:30,040 --> 01:24:34,120
Speaker 1: What was that about? Um? The independent stuff was bigcause

1146
01:24:34,640 --> 01:24:38,439
Speaker 1: while I was I was getting involved in fixing guitars,

1147
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:42,719
Speaker 1: also got interested in our amplifiers. And at one point,

1148
01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:47,760
Speaker 1: quite accidentally, I stumbled across a little part of a

1149
01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:56,560
Speaker 1: circuit dar fire circuit that made things made them sound, um,

1150
01:24:56,680 --> 01:24:59,960
Speaker 1: very comfortable. That helped you, made you want to carry

1151
01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:04,080
Speaker 1: on playing. Um. And I've talked to a couple of

1152
01:25:04,120 --> 01:25:11,080
Speaker 1: friends who are amplifier you know, proper designers and repairers

1153
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:17,360
Speaker 1: who know what they're talking about. Uh. And one in

1154
01:25:17,400 --> 01:25:20,559
Speaker 1: particular was really interested in it. Pointed out to me

1155
01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:26,559
Speaker 1: why that happened electronically, um and and pointed out to

1156
01:25:26,560 --> 01:25:29,880
Speaker 1: me that no, no electronics person would do that. But

1157
01:25:30,040 --> 01:25:34,000
Speaker 1: actually it just seems to be no reason not to.

1158
01:25:34,200 --> 01:25:38,640
Speaker 1: It works and it sounds very good. Um, So I

1159
01:25:38,800 --> 01:25:47,240
Speaker 1: was I attempted to start making um amplifiers. I came

1160
01:25:47,240 --> 01:25:49,479
Speaker 1: to a halt that I couldn't find anybody who would

1161
01:25:50,120 --> 01:25:53,840
Speaker 1: print out a face plate, you know, with base, middle,

1162
01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:57,680
Speaker 1: treble and volume and the name written across it that

1163
01:25:57,760 --> 01:26:01,840
Speaker 1: you would stick to the front um. It would cost

1164
01:26:02,320 --> 01:26:05,400
Speaker 1: two and a half grand. Whether you wanted one or

1165
01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:10,360
Speaker 1: he wanted two thousand or four thousand. The setup work

1166
01:26:10,520 --> 01:26:13,640
Speaker 1: was was what cost the money, and the making of

1167
01:26:13,680 --> 01:26:15,839
Speaker 1: it was just the cost of a bit of plastic

1168
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:19,760
Speaker 1: or word and a bit of machining. UM. And that

1169
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:24,200
Speaker 1: kind of stopped me. And then Graham phoned up instead,

1170
01:26:24,240 --> 01:26:27,240
Speaker 1: we're doing it again, And so I stopped being a

1171
01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:32,160
Speaker 1: guitar repairer and an AMP build a modifier. There's quite

1172
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:36,000
Speaker 1: a lot of my modified apps out there in this country. No,

1173
01:26:36,160 --> 01:26:39,800
Speaker 1: I did do quite quite a lot, and some one

1174
01:26:39,840 --> 01:26:43,880
Speaker 1: in particular is in a in a studio where apparently

1175
01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:49,719
Speaker 1: all the guitar players that go there use that AMPR. Okay,

1176
01:26:49,720 --> 01:26:52,360
Speaker 1: so what does it look like that you work with

1177
01:26:52,400 --> 01:26:58,759
Speaker 1: Graham Um? Graham phoned up. I was the last person

1178
01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:02,160
Speaker 1: he phoned, and he said he said that I know

1179
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:04,320
Speaker 1: you're going to say no because you can't get on

1180
01:27:04,360 --> 01:27:07,360
Speaker 1: an aeroplane, but I'm going to try any anyway, and

1181
01:27:07,439 --> 01:27:12,160
Speaker 1: everybody wants me to so um. And he explained what

1182
01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:15,200
Speaker 1: he was what he was doing, which was to make

1183
01:27:15,240 --> 01:27:20,240
Speaker 1: another Grand Park in the Rumor record and he'd love

1184
01:27:20,400 --> 01:27:23,479
Speaker 1: for me to be involved, and could I get on

1185
01:27:23,479 --> 01:27:29,000
Speaker 1: a plane and I said absolutely, no problem at all,

1186
01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:32,799
Speaker 1: no worries, just tell me when I'll be there. Great,

1187
01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:36,360
Speaker 1: And so we had a chat about it a little

1188
01:27:36,360 --> 01:27:38,559
Speaker 1: bit and then I put the phone down and sat

1189
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:42,320
Speaker 1: back and talk shit, I've just said I'll get over

1190
01:27:42,400 --> 01:27:49,120
Speaker 1: an aeroplane, and and I did, and it was all fine. Okay.

1191
01:27:49,160 --> 01:27:53,800
Speaker 1: So at this point in time, okay, let me ask

1192
01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:56,240
Speaker 1: you difficult why you're a luthier. Are you continuing to

1193
01:27:56,240 --> 01:28:00,840
Speaker 1: play music yourself? Yeah, well, if you're fixing it, so

1194
01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:03,200
Speaker 1: you need to play it for ten fifteen minutes before

1195
01:28:03,240 --> 01:28:06,880
Speaker 1: you start. You played the fifteen minutes afterwards, played for

1196
01:28:06,880 --> 01:28:10,639
Speaker 1: a couple of hours if nobody's Hastley hastling you. So

1197
01:28:10,720 --> 01:28:14,400
Speaker 1: I played every day, probably more than I played when

1198
01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:16,840
Speaker 1: I was on the road, where you don't get much

1199
01:28:16,920 --> 01:28:22,679
Speaker 1: time for it. Apart from the gig. Uh and and

1200
01:28:22,920 --> 01:28:25,120
Speaker 1: later I used to hang around in sound checks as

1201
01:28:25,160 --> 01:28:28,559
Speaker 1: long as I could. Um. Yeah, So I played a lot,

1202
01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:33,400
Speaker 1: and at some point I started writing songs as well,

1203
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:36,040
Speaker 1: which I hadn't done for quite a long time. Then

1204
01:28:36,120 --> 01:28:40,200
Speaker 1: did you play any bands in that era? No? Well,

1205
01:28:40,240 --> 01:28:43,479
Speaker 1: I had played bass with a friends band. They're bass

1206
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:45,439
Speaker 1: player left and they couldn't find another one, so I

1207
01:28:45,439 --> 01:28:49,160
Speaker 1: said I'll played bass with so I I started playing

1208
01:28:49,160 --> 01:28:52,120
Speaker 1: bass and we played a gig. It was just really

1209
01:28:52,320 --> 01:28:56,599
Speaker 1: I love playing bass. Um. Okay, So you recently put

1210
01:28:56,720 --> 01:29:00,519
Speaker 1: out a new album. It's this late date actually in

1211
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:05,280
Speaker 1: the crazy world we live in music now, where the

1212
01:29:05,320 --> 01:29:10,000
Speaker 1: biggest household name Max, put out records in there immediately stiff.

1213
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:16,600
Speaker 1: What motivated you to make a record now? Um? I

1214
01:29:16,640 --> 01:29:22,559
Speaker 1: think what what motivated me finally was that the one

1215
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:27,679
Speaker 1: that the tune that I recorded to start with turned

1216
01:29:27,720 --> 01:29:32,000
Speaker 1: out the experience of it and and it itself turned

1217
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:36,040
Speaker 1: out so well that I wanted to carry on. I

1218
01:29:36,080 --> 01:29:40,400
Speaker 1: had more songs, and and I thought, you know, why not,

1219
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:42,120
Speaker 1: this will cost me a little bit of money, but

1220
01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:47,760
Speaker 1: actually it would be fun and and and it was.

1221
01:29:48,520 --> 01:29:52,599
Speaker 1: But it started with James halliwell, who played with us

1222
01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:57,160
Speaker 1: on Mona Lisa sister. It was a keyboard player. He's

1223
01:29:57,200 --> 01:30:03,280
Speaker 1: got this little studio off in in Richmond, and he

1224
01:30:03,400 --> 01:30:06,719
Speaker 1: came to one of the Grand Parker of the Rumor

1225
01:30:06,800 --> 01:30:12,599
Speaker 1: gigs in London Shepherds Push Empire, and came backstage and

1226
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:16,559
Speaker 1: said high and said, you know, we're just talking. So

1227
01:30:16,640 --> 01:30:18,840
Speaker 1: what are you? What are you doing? Sort of doing

1228
01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:21,640
Speaker 1: this and writing a few songs? He said, what if

1229
01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:23,519
Speaker 1: you want to come and record one? I've got little studio.

1230
01:30:23,560 --> 01:30:27,280
Speaker 1: Why did you come down? And so I did and

1231
01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:31,000
Speaker 1: recorded a song which I wanted to record for a

1232
01:30:31,080 --> 01:30:36,360
Speaker 1: relative's wedding as a wedding present, and which we did

1233
01:30:36,840 --> 01:30:43,840
Speaker 1: and and carried on. Both said. We both looked at

1234
01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:46,920
Speaker 1: each other after we've played it back in its mix form,

1235
01:30:47,080 --> 01:30:49,640
Speaker 1: said well that's pretty good, isn't it. Should we do

1236
01:30:49,720 --> 01:30:52,400
Speaker 1: some more? And he said, yeah, let's do some more.

1237
01:30:52,560 --> 01:30:55,160
Speaker 1: We could make an EP and before we knew it,

1238
01:30:55,240 --> 01:30:58,439
Speaker 1: we'd made an ill okay if you made it in

1239
01:30:58,479 --> 01:31:07,479
Speaker 1: his studio. Essentially the cost was lower, non existent. Uh no, um,

1240
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:12,600
Speaker 1: I got what's what we call mates rate, but pay

1241
01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:15,519
Speaker 1: you paid, But there's a record company. The record company

1242
01:31:15,560 --> 01:31:20,599
Speaker 1: reimburse you. They just releasing the record. Um, well, if

1243
01:31:20,600 --> 01:31:22,920
Speaker 1: we're talking about Tangles, so I was talking about the

1244
01:31:22,920 --> 01:31:27,479
Speaker 1: first album. Okay, we'll continue the narrative. You make make

1245
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:31,120
Speaker 1: the first record, but you put the first record out yourself. Yeah,

1246
01:31:31,160 --> 01:31:33,880
Speaker 1: that's right. And sold it where I where I could.

1247
01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:38,840
Speaker 1: There was want to with Graham, sold sold someone that

1248
01:31:39,960 --> 01:31:44,519
Speaker 1: a Japanese guy called me up and wanted two. Yeah,

1249
01:31:44,560 --> 01:31:46,479
Speaker 1: I just told it where I could. I still have

1250
01:31:46,520 --> 01:31:51,200
Speaker 1: a few left, um, and I haven't broken even on that.

1251
01:31:52,320 --> 01:31:57,519
Speaker 1: That's the second album Tangled, that I paid for and

1252
01:31:57,800 --> 01:32:02,439
Speaker 1: it's selling few and so I will get reimbursement at

1253
01:32:02,439 --> 01:32:07,800
Speaker 1: some point for some of it. But as I think,

1254
01:32:08,080 --> 01:32:10,519
Speaker 1: we don't. We really don't do this for the money

1255
01:32:10,520 --> 01:32:16,600
Speaker 1: because because it's not it's not there. It's very difficult. Um.

1256
01:32:16,600 --> 01:32:23,360
Speaker 1: But we enjoy it. So what was the motivation for Tangled? Um? Well,

1257
01:32:23,640 --> 01:32:28,000
Speaker 1: mainly because it it started because there was that there

1258
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:35,000
Speaker 1: are songs that UM as as I as I was recording, unexpected,

1259
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:39,200
Speaker 1: there was I was writing more songs, and so some

1260
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:42,240
Speaker 1: of the songs that I wrote while we were making

1261
01:32:42,240 --> 01:32:46,920
Speaker 1: it UM seemed to be better, better suited to some

1262
01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:50,680
Speaker 1: of the other songs that were already there. So we

1263
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:56,000
Speaker 1: ended up with three four songs that were, you know,

1264
01:32:56,560 --> 01:33:01,720
Speaker 1: on their way to being finished. Um. And so there

1265
01:33:01,800 --> 01:33:05,360
Speaker 1: was the beginnings of another album, and I had more

1266
01:33:05,439 --> 01:33:11,400
Speaker 1: songs ready, so we just carried on and and now

1267
01:33:11,439 --> 01:33:15,719
Speaker 1: we've carried We've carried on and Tangled Is is out there,

1268
01:33:16,520 --> 01:33:20,320
Speaker 1: and I've got three or four songs almost finished and

1269
01:33:22,840 --> 01:33:27,720
Speaker 1: eight ten songs written. Um. Some of them have just

1270
01:33:27,760 --> 01:33:33,280
Speaker 1: got basic demo tracks. Some of them are almost finished.

1271
01:33:33,640 --> 01:33:37,439
Speaker 1: So I have another album. It's it's not like it's

1272
01:33:37,479 --> 01:33:40,679
Speaker 1: not like I'm making albums. It's that I'm just recording songs.

1273
01:33:41,320 --> 01:33:43,559
Speaker 1: And at some point you have enough for an album,

1274
01:33:43,640 --> 01:33:47,400
Speaker 1: so you put it out. Now are you playing live?

1275
01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:53,479
Speaker 1: I am not at the momentum. I'm afraid. I don't.

1276
01:33:54,680 --> 01:33:58,960
Speaker 1: I trust very little about our government and what it's saying.

1277
01:33:59,280 --> 01:34:04,559
Speaker 1: I think it So I think today's COVID infection rate

1278
01:34:04,640 --> 01:34:08,719
Speaker 1: went up to over forty five thousand. It's been forty

1279
01:34:08,760 --> 01:34:13,400
Speaker 1: five or above for the last two weeks. No one, well,

1280
01:34:13,640 --> 01:34:16,600
Speaker 1: the only people may wearing masks are doing it voluntarily.

1281
01:34:17,600 --> 01:34:20,599
Speaker 1: So you can go into supermarket and half the people

1282
01:34:20,640 --> 01:34:26,040
Speaker 1: are unmasked. There's obviously hundreds of thousands of people in

1283
01:34:26,080 --> 01:34:30,280
Speaker 1: this country with it. People who have been double vaccinated

1284
01:34:30,680 --> 01:34:35,599
Speaker 1: have died, have caught it and again and died. Um,

1285
01:34:35,640 --> 01:34:40,920
Speaker 1: so I don't think it's safe. So prior to COVID,

1286
01:34:41,000 --> 01:34:46,920
Speaker 1: were you were you playing live? Um? No? When I

1287
01:34:46,960 --> 01:34:52,640
Speaker 1: was playing with Graham, and pretty much after after that,

1288
01:34:53,680 --> 01:34:58,439
Speaker 1: I was sort of mid mid doing things and COVID

1289
01:34:58,479 --> 01:35:02,280
Speaker 1: came as a as a rise, and I was lucky

1290
01:35:02,360 --> 01:35:05,920
Speaker 1: to be able to actually finish Tangled because that it

1291
01:35:06,080 --> 01:35:12,680
Speaker 1: got really difficult. Um, we're traveling in the studio. Okay,

1292
01:35:13,200 --> 01:35:20,080
Speaker 1: when was the last time you played with Graham? Um? Five?

1293
01:35:20,120 --> 01:35:23,120
Speaker 1: I would say five years ago now for four to

1294
01:35:23,280 --> 01:35:26,160
Speaker 1: five years. And is that the last chapter or you

1295
01:35:26,240 --> 01:35:30,400
Speaker 1: never know? Oh sorry, is that the last chapter? Or

1296
01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:34,679
Speaker 1: might you play with him again? Um? Yeah, I don't.

1297
01:35:34,800 --> 01:35:38,439
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'd be very happy to play with

1298
01:35:38,520 --> 01:35:43,160
Speaker 1: him again if he's up for it. Um. And all

1299
01:35:43,680 --> 01:35:49,360
Speaker 1: these people that have gone through, Bobby Andrews and Nick Low, etcetera.

1300
01:35:49,400 --> 01:35:55,160
Speaker 1: Have you mainteam connection with all of them? Um no?

1301
01:35:56,840 --> 01:36:02,120
Speaker 1: I I think if I've talked to Nick a dozen

1302
01:36:02,200 --> 01:36:09,560
Speaker 1: times since the Prinses broke up, that's about about it. Um.

1303
01:36:09,560 --> 01:36:16,840
Speaker 1: Bob Yeah, more more obviously because he was in the

1304
01:36:16,920 --> 01:36:22,559
Speaker 1: rumor and then and then in the Rumor a second time. Um,

1305
01:36:22,880 --> 01:36:27,160
Speaker 1: when we did it again. Um. So I'm in touch

1306
01:36:27,240 --> 01:36:34,960
Speaker 1: with members of the Rumor and Graham. Um okay if

1307
01:36:35,040 --> 01:36:38,880
Speaker 1: this late D do you get any royal dues or

1308
01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:43,519
Speaker 1: any you know, public performance moneies? Yeah, I get there's

1309
01:36:43,560 --> 01:36:48,040
Speaker 1: a great a great company or a company organization called PPL,

1310
01:36:48,560 --> 01:36:52,840
Speaker 1: and they sent me check enough to live on, not

1311
01:36:52,960 --> 01:36:55,840
Speaker 1: enough to live or no, But I don't. I don't

1312
01:36:55,840 --> 01:37:00,439
Speaker 1: know where it comes from. Sometimes it's it's what i'd

1313
01:37:00,479 --> 01:37:04,920
Speaker 1: call quite a lot of money, but sometimes it's sunny,

1314
01:37:05,080 --> 01:37:08,400
Speaker 1: it's like a fifty pounds, and sometimes it's a thousand

1315
01:37:08,640 --> 01:37:13,200
Speaker 1: or two. Um. But yeah, you can't, you can't live

1316
01:37:13,320 --> 01:37:19,320
Speaker 1: live on that. So I'm officially a retired person. Um

1317
01:37:19,360 --> 01:37:28,160
Speaker 1: so ah so I am working very very little, really

1318
01:37:28,160 --> 01:37:33,439
Speaker 1: working more on songwriting and and arranging things in my

1319
01:37:33,560 --> 01:37:37,160
Speaker 1: head ready for the studio, hopefully going into the studio

1320
01:37:37,200 --> 01:37:43,599
Speaker 1: again in a week's time. UM to record at least one,

1321
01:37:43,760 --> 01:37:48,960
Speaker 1: if not to song new songs. Um. If you're getting

1322
01:37:48,960 --> 01:37:53,200
Speaker 1: this limited money from from your past work, what are

1323
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:59,000
Speaker 1: you living on? Um? Just just money that I have. UM,

1324
01:37:59,560 --> 01:38:05,320
Speaker 1: I in writ it. A little um money comes, A

1325
01:38:05,400 --> 01:38:07,160
Speaker 1: little money comes. In I seem to be able to

1326
01:38:07,160 --> 01:38:13,160
Speaker 1: balance the books fairly reasonably. It's it's not I'm not

1327
01:38:13,280 --> 01:38:18,960
Speaker 1: I'm not wealthy or anything. And and really I want

1328
01:38:19,000 --> 01:38:21,200
Speaker 1: to do what I what I like doing and for

1329
01:38:21,240 --> 01:38:25,439
Speaker 1: as long as I can. So well, you've saved money

1330
01:38:25,520 --> 01:38:28,680
Speaker 1: from your musical. You know a lot of musicians when

1331
01:38:28,720 --> 01:38:31,000
Speaker 1: they get to the end, they didn't save any money.

1332
01:38:31,080 --> 01:38:36,760
Speaker 1: So you save money from your musical endeavor. Um, Yeah, no,

1333
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:40,120
Speaker 1: I think. I think what I inherited is what keeps

1334
01:38:40,120 --> 01:38:45,559
Speaker 1: me above water doing doing what I do. But I

1335
01:38:45,600 --> 01:38:49,439
Speaker 1: seem to be able to go along and and make

1336
01:38:49,600 --> 01:38:56,280
Speaker 1: ends meet, um, without being hugely successful or wealthy. Okay,

1337
01:38:56,320 --> 01:38:59,760
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna ask. In America we have social security.

1338
01:39:00,400 --> 01:39:04,559
Speaker 1: I assume you have the equivalent in the UK. It's

1339
01:39:04,600 --> 01:39:07,800
Speaker 1: not enough money to live on here. What's the situation

1340
01:39:07,840 --> 01:39:12,439
Speaker 1: in the UK? Um? We have we have a pension,

1341
01:39:12,520 --> 01:39:17,799
Speaker 1: a national pension scheme. So everybody's does that. If they work,

1342
01:39:18,280 --> 01:39:22,920
Speaker 1: they pay every week into it. And at the end

1343
01:39:22,960 --> 01:39:26,679
Speaker 1: of when you stop working, when you when you retire,

1344
01:39:26,720 --> 01:39:31,160
Speaker 1: when you reach the official retirement age. Um, you get

1345
01:39:31,200 --> 01:39:35,400
Speaker 1: paid every your pension, your state pension, every every month.

1346
01:39:35,960 --> 01:39:38,760
Speaker 1: And is it enough to live I mean, you've inherited money,

1347
01:39:38,800 --> 01:39:42,200
Speaker 1: but for the average person, isn't enough to live on? Um,

1348
01:39:44,160 --> 01:39:47,800
Speaker 1: I would say just, but I think I think most

1349
01:39:47,800 --> 01:39:53,479
Speaker 1: people have has something else other than I think I

1350
01:39:53,479 --> 01:39:57,439
Speaker 1: think most people who who who you wouldn't regard really poor.

1351
01:39:57,920 --> 01:40:00,839
Speaker 1: And we have a lot of important role in this country.

1352
01:40:00,920 --> 01:40:05,680
Speaker 1: But but everybody seems to have enough to get by

1353
01:40:06,320 --> 01:40:09,920
Speaker 1: and go on holiday. Okay, let me ask you about

1354
01:40:09,920 --> 01:40:11,920
Speaker 1: a couple of tracks, because I mean, I did buy

1355
01:40:11,920 --> 01:40:13,840
Speaker 1: the first first room around, I did see it at

1356
01:40:13,880 --> 01:40:16,639
Speaker 1: the Roxy. But going into some of this Graham Parker stuff,

1357
01:40:17,200 --> 01:40:22,160
Speaker 1: can you tell me the process of writing something I'm

1358
01:40:22,200 --> 01:40:25,479
Speaker 1: going through? Because it has that white reggae feel. How

1359
01:40:25,479 --> 01:40:29,559
Speaker 1: does that a song like that come together? That's that's

1360
01:40:29,560 --> 01:40:32,320
Speaker 1: the one of Graham songs I know. But did he

1361
01:40:32,479 --> 01:40:38,080
Speaker 1: come with that groove? Um? Yeah, I think I think so.

1362
01:40:38,200 --> 01:40:44,920
Speaker 1: He usually comes with with with a groove and playing

1363
01:40:44,960 --> 01:40:50,320
Speaker 1: acoustic guitar, and he would also he would also play

1364
01:40:51,479 --> 01:40:56,840
Speaker 1: little chord changes, tiny little things that. Okay, more than

1365
01:40:56,880 --> 01:41:01,559
Speaker 1: occasionally I've cotton donto and used um as a as

1366
01:41:01,560 --> 01:41:04,840
Speaker 1: a tune or a riff in the song, like like

1367
01:41:06,040 --> 01:41:09,719
Speaker 1: nobody hurts you that the guitar part that I play

1368
01:41:09,840 --> 01:41:14,320
Speaker 1: is based upon something he was doing on on rhythm

1369
01:41:14,400 --> 01:41:18,719
Speaker 1: on a rhythm part, so I'd hear that. Um, yeah,

1370
01:41:18,840 --> 01:41:23,679
Speaker 1: I think, I think. You know, it's a broad range

1371
01:41:23,720 --> 01:41:26,120
Speaker 1: of things. Sometimes he has he has no idea and

1372
01:41:26,120 --> 01:41:32,760
Speaker 1: we we would we would kind of arrange it veen us. Um.

1373
01:41:32,840 --> 01:41:37,160
Speaker 1: Sometimes he would have a lot of idea and and

1374
01:41:37,280 --> 01:41:40,920
Speaker 1: we'd step back and and try to, you know, put

1375
01:41:40,960 --> 01:41:46,799
Speaker 1: what he was talking about into a band scenario. Fool's

1376
01:41:46,880 --> 01:41:49,880
Speaker 1: Gold on the same album, the Heat Treatment album, it

1377
01:41:50,000 --> 01:41:53,920
Speaker 1: starts with almost a waterfall flourished sound. Who would come

1378
01:41:54,000 --> 01:41:55,600
Speaker 1: up with that or who did come up with that?

1379
01:41:57,479 --> 01:42:01,040
Speaker 1: I don't remember. I mean, was it always Graham or

1380
01:42:01,120 --> 01:42:09,080
Speaker 1: sometimes the producer? Um? I think, well the producers, so

1381
01:42:09,280 --> 01:42:13,800
Speaker 1: that there are different producers who all work differently. We

1382
01:42:13,880 --> 01:42:17,760
Speaker 1: had a we've had a few odd things with some

1383
01:42:17,840 --> 01:42:24,280
Speaker 1: of the producers that we we worked with. Um M,

1384
01:42:24,680 --> 01:42:29,000
Speaker 1: I don't know that the sound that you're you're you're

1385
01:42:29,040 --> 01:42:32,439
Speaker 1: talking about, Um, it's a long long time since I

1386
01:42:32,520 --> 01:42:35,800
Speaker 1: listened to fulls Gold. It's not that long ago that

1387
01:42:35,840 --> 01:42:40,479
Speaker 1: I played it. But what are your two favorite Graham

1388
01:42:40,479 --> 01:42:45,519
Speaker 1: Parker and the Rumor tracks Love Gets You Twisted and

1389
01:42:45,560 --> 01:42:48,599
Speaker 1: watched them Man come Down. Okay, you have you must

1390
01:42:48,600 --> 01:42:50,320
Speaker 1: have been asked that before, because you have the question.

1391
01:42:50,320 --> 01:42:54,479
Speaker 1: You have the answers right away now, I've I haven't

1392
01:42:54,479 --> 01:42:57,160
Speaker 1: been I haven't been asked it. Well, I've been asked

1393
01:42:57,160 --> 01:43:00,880
Speaker 1: it indirectly, and so I don't. But those are my

1394
01:43:00,960 --> 01:43:05,000
Speaker 1: two favorite tracks, and I've just recorded what I've recorded,

1395
01:43:05,080 --> 01:43:09,080
Speaker 1: Love Gets You Twisted and I'm I'm parked recorded Watch

1396
01:43:09,160 --> 01:43:12,760
Speaker 1: the Moon Come Down. So they are for there in

1397
01:43:12,800 --> 01:43:17,120
Speaker 1: my head at the moment. Right. So, if your musical career,

1398
01:43:17,160 --> 01:43:21,559
Speaker 1: what are you most proud of? I've been asked this

1399
01:43:22,080 --> 01:43:29,920
Speaker 1: before as as well, so as a as a guitar player. UM,

1400
01:43:29,960 --> 01:43:35,240
Speaker 1: the solo on This Town, which is on max, Um,

1401
01:43:35,280 --> 01:43:41,519
Speaker 1: the solo on what is that song? Right going to

1402
01:43:43,360 --> 01:43:45,639
Speaker 1: I think of the song as selfish because that's how

1403
01:43:45,640 --> 01:43:48,240
Speaker 1: I how I wrote it. As a track on Unexpected,

1404
01:43:49,560 --> 01:43:55,400
Speaker 1: the solo on that, and the solo on Stranded on

1405
01:43:58,360 --> 01:44:03,080
Speaker 1: UM the work. So proud of being in the rumor

1406
01:44:04,560 --> 01:44:08,880
Speaker 1: and proud to have worked with Graham, I'd say happy,

1407
01:44:08,960 --> 01:44:13,400
Speaker 1: more than proud. I'm happy to have done those things.

1408
01:44:16,400 --> 01:44:23,320
Speaker 1: And yeah, all the day to day stuff that that

1409
01:44:23,880 --> 01:44:27,160
Speaker 1: you do when you're on the road, helping each other

1410
01:44:27,320 --> 01:44:33,760
Speaker 1: through various things, and and proud to have built an

1411
01:44:33,760 --> 01:44:37,719
Speaker 1: amplifier not quite from scratch, but pretty much from scratch

1412
01:44:38,160 --> 01:44:42,719
Speaker 1: that everybody that goes into that studio plays. That's Ralph

1413
01:44:42,840 --> 01:44:50,440
Speaker 1: Salmon's Studio's Drauma who played on Unexpected Um. He's he's um,

1414
01:44:50,479 --> 01:44:53,040
Speaker 1: you know, quite a big trauma. He's got a little studio.

1415
01:44:53,439 --> 01:44:58,160
Speaker 1: People go and record stuff there, and all the guitar

1416
01:44:58,200 --> 01:45:04,000
Speaker 1: players love this. This EMPLATHYZ song. That's it. I'm I'm

1417
01:45:04,040 --> 01:45:07,240
Speaker 1: proud to do that kind of stuff. Okay, Brinsley, I

1418
01:45:07,280 --> 01:45:09,720
Speaker 1: think we've hit the high point of your career. I

1419
01:45:09,760 --> 01:45:12,960
Speaker 1: have a million more questions. Maybe well maybe one time

1420
01:45:13,000 --> 01:45:16,840
Speaker 1: when we're face to face. You're quite the storyteller. I

1421
01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:19,559
Speaker 1: want to thank you so much for doing this and

1422
01:45:19,720 --> 01:45:23,519
Speaker 1: hopefully you'll have continued success with Tangled. Thank you very much.

1423
01:45:23,600 --> 01:45:27,519
Speaker 1: Been good talking to you. It's been nice to talk

1424
01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:32,760
Speaker 1: to somebody who who knows the music industry and and

1425
01:45:33,560 --> 01:45:38,760
Speaker 1: bands and players. Like I said, thanks so much. Till

1426
01:45:38,880 --> 01:45:41,040
Speaker 1: next time. This is Bob left Sex