1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My 3 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and we're 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: back with Part three, the final part in our series 5 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: on gray whales. Now in the previous episodes, which if 6 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: you haven't listened to yet, you'd probably go back and 7 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: check out parts one and two. First, in the previous ones, 8 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: we described the morphology and behavior of the species scientific 9 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: name is Shrichtius robust us. There the robust buddies, the 10 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: gray whales, and we talked about their relationship with the 11 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: barnacles that often pile up on them like a like 12 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: a big old nasty crust. And we talked about their 13 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: relationship with their main predator other than humans, the orca. 14 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: And today we're going to kick off addressing their amazing 15 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: migratory habits, which is probably one of the main things 16 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: to understand about this species. Yeah, yeah, And to sort 17 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: of draw back to those previous episodes that reiterate that 18 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: I did get the chance to see gray whales in 19 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: the wild at their breeding lagoons, A particular one of 20 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: their breeding lagoons called Ojo Delia Gray Lagoon on the 21 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: Baja Peninsula about halfway down the Baja Peninsula, and it 22 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: was an amazing experience. So I'll refer back to to 23 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: some of my observations alongside the various sided materials that 24 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: we're going to be referring to now speaking of those 25 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: breeding lagoons. In the last episode, you know, we mostly 26 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: discussed these as the safe waters for the birth of 27 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: the whale calves and a reason for migration in gray 28 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: whales in particular. But as highlighted in one of the 29 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: books that I was using here, whales their biology and 30 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: behavior by Hammond at all, there are other considerations to 31 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: take into account concerning, first of all, just migration of 32 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: bailing whales in general. So on the reproductive front, yes, 33 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: protection from orcas does seem to be a major factor, 34 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: particularly with gray whales, and there's the additional hypothesis that 35 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: the whale calves to survive and grow better in warmer waters. 36 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 1: It's also argued that it's simply energetically more efficient to 37 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: swim to warmer waters than to overwinter up north. There's 38 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: also more visibility and shelter in tropical waters. We talked, 39 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: and this comes back to orcas survival to a large extent, 40 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: we discussed the gray whales ability to seek shallower waters, 41 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: and part of that is that there it sounds like 42 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: they're just more nooks and crannies that the whales may 43 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 1: venture into to find refuge. Yeah. So, for example, when 44 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: gray whales are threatened by orcas, it's been observed that 45 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: they might try to seek shelters, say in kelp beds, 46 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: or like in hiding in seaweed, or even in breaking surf, 47 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: which apparently helps obscure their presence. Yeah, and we'll come 48 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: back to some more details about this in a minute. 49 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: The authors here do stress, however, that there's just there's 50 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: no one size fits all explanation, especially considering that there 51 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: are various differences in behavior among the baling whales in general. 52 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: For instance, they mentioned that one factor for many baling whales, 53 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: again not gray whales specifically, but but other filter feeding whales, 54 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: seems to be that during the summer you have a 55 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: stratification of the water column to include a highly photic zone, 56 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: resulting in rapid photosynthesis and reproduction of phytoplankton. Phytoplankton are 57 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: the plant plankton, and these phytoplankton in turn feed the zooplankton, 58 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: which of course are the animal plankton, and this generally 59 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: fattens up the entire ecosystem in these waters. But then 60 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: in the winter, cooling temps and strong winds break up 61 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: the stratification, mixing the vertical water column. Phytoplankton can't stay 62 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: near the surfaces easily, there's increasingly less sunlight and prey 63 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: availability takes a dive as well. Okay, so the plankton 64 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: scene kind of dries up a little bit. Yeah. Now, 65 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: as we mentioned, and I believe the first episode, gray 66 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 1: whales are of course rather different than a lot of 67 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,679 Speaker 1: the other baling whales, I mean, all the other extent 68 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: baling whales, because they're not really going after things like 69 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 1: kelp and zooplankton. No, they're going after those benthic organisms 70 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 1: like isopods in the sand on the sea floor. So 71 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: they're not directly feeding for the most part on plankton. However, 72 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: the benthic organisms down there are still part of the 73 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 1: food web and are therefore impacted as well by all 74 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: of this. Okay, so if you don't recall we described 75 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: their typical feeding behavior, I think in part one of 76 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: this series where unlike the whales you've probably seen kind 77 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,559 Speaker 1: of like zooming around near the surface of the water 78 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: and just like letting water wash into their mouths, filtering 79 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,679 Speaker 1: out all of the plankton or the krill or whatever 80 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: with their billing. The gray whales have a habit of 81 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: slamming their heads into the sediment on the ocean bottom 82 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: in relatively shallow areas to sort of like scoop up 83 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 1: a bunch of this sediment and then getting like use 84 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: their billiing to filter the organisms out of it and 85 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: eat those. Yeah, exactly like basically scraping one side of 86 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: their face across the seafloor. Now there's another interesting factor 87 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: in all this. So we mentioned in one of the 88 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 1: previous episodes that gray whales have been observed in recent 89 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: years overwintering in the Arctic and not making the migration 90 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 1: down south in rare instances. And I don't believe we're 91 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: talking about reproductive or currently reproducing females in these cases. 92 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: But basically this is a situation where we have to 93 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: consider climate change. Once again. We have to remember that 94 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: climate change has some of its more drastic effects in 95 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 1: the Arctic. And I was reading an interest in OAA 96 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,239 Speaker 1: paper dealing with some of this, titled Sentinels of Change 97 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: Gray Whales in the Arctic, pointing out that less sea 98 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: ice means more exposed ocean areas and this alone has 99 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: a huge impact on the environment. But they also point 100 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: out the following. So in cold years, what you have 101 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: happening first is a spring bloom of plankton. But in 102 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: the early spring, most zooplankton are not yet ready to graze. Meanwhile, 103 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: the phytoplankton, the plants digging all that sunlight, they're just 104 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: going crazy, and there's so much of it that the 105 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: zooplankton are in. The zooplankton are not ready to feed 106 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: on it yet, so most of it ends up sinking 107 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: to the bottom. And what happens at the bottom, well, 108 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: that's where the benthic organisms are and they feast on them. 109 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: And again that is what the gray whales are primarily 110 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: going to eat, those creatures down there that just date 111 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: all of this phytoplankton. In warmer years, however, the sea 112 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: ice melts too early. There's not enough light to really 113 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: power up the spring bloom of phytoplank and so the 114 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: phytoplankton bloom is delayed and it doesn't really hit until 115 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: of the zooplankton is fully ready to feed, meaning that 116 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: the zooplankton can eat most of it, there's less to 117 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: rain down to the menthic organisms. Okay, so that sounds 118 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: not great for gray whales. That's what it would sound, right, yeah, 119 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: because that's their primary feast down there. But what this 120 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: particular paper stresses is that as warmer years likely continue 121 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: due to climate change, we might see gray whales shift 122 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: in their diet. So we mentioned that they're fairly opportunistic, 123 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: so they will do some filter feeding in the upper 124 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: portions of the water So if they aren't able to 125 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,679 Speaker 1: get what they would normally get down there at the bottom, 126 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: or it seems like there's more, say zooplankton in the 127 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: upper portion of the water column, then they will eat 128 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: that and potentially eat that instead. So it's a situation 129 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: where they outline that a couple of things happened. We 130 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: might to see them displaced from their traditional feeding grounds, 131 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: but we also might see a portion of their diet 132 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: shift more in favor of filter feeding upwards in the 133 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: water column, eating more zooplankton than would normally make up 134 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: their diet and I think, goodness. I'm trying to remember 135 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: what the percentage was when we talked about it, but 136 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: it's like a huge percentage of their known normal diet 137 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: is those benthic organisms down there in the sand. So 138 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: it's kind of a good news not I don't know 139 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: if it's a good news bading situation, but anyway, it 140 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: speaks to these organisms have been around for a long time, 141 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 1: and part of their ability to survive has been their 142 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: ability to make reasonable adaptations. Yes, and I guess that 143 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: brings us back to the issue of the migration, because 144 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: what we're talking about right now is primarily what's happening 145 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: in their feeding grounds in the Arctic waters. But that's 146 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: only half of the story. That's really fatten up up north, 147 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: especially when we're talking about this population of the Eastern 148 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: Pacific gray whales. The other half of the story is reproduction, 149 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: which involves a journey south. That's right, and this is 150 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: quite a journey for the gray whales. The distance between 151 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: their summer feeding grounds and their winter breeding grounds can 152 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: exceed twenty thousand kilometers. That's something like twelve four hundred 153 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: and twenty seven miles. Now, it's worth discussing again again 154 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: These are not deep ocean whales, and that makes sense 155 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: given their diet. They primarily stick to a shallow continental 156 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 1: shelf waters. They stick reasonably close to the coast, and 157 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: therefore we see that reflected also in the way they 158 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: migrate between these two waters. They're not making a bee 159 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: line from one area to the next. Their journey tends 160 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: to be more coastal, with some alterations depending on exactly 161 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,199 Speaker 1: what their circumstances are. Now, we mentioned that there used 162 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: to be a population of North Atlantic gray whales, and 163 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: it's thought that they would have fed around Newfoundland, the 164 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: Gulf of Saint Lawrence, Iceland, and Europe's North Sea. And 165 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: it's thought that they would have found winter breeding refuges 166 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: somewhere along the coasts of Georgia and the Carolinas here 167 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: in the States, as well as uncertain spots along the 168 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: coast of Spain, Portugal, and Morocco. Now, this population was 169 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: essentially extinct by the late seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries 170 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: do at the very least in large part to whaling, 171 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 1: if not largely to whaling or entirely to whaling. Interestingly enough, 172 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: there have been proposals to try and reintroduce North Pacific 173 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: gray whales into this region to restore the population. I 174 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: think we mentioned this previously. And there's also the possibility 175 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: that they may recolonize the area themselves as in the 176 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: future as sea ice melts and opens up these waters 177 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: to them once again. So the North Pacific population potentially 178 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 1: recolonizing the North Atlantic, but that's kind of hypothetical. We're 179 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,719 Speaker 1: not sure exactly how that would pan out, though, I 180 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 1: guess it's always possible, because occasionally you do find whales 181 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: like way outside of their their normal ranges, right, They 182 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: just kind of pop up in strange places that that 183 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: you don't usually find them. Yeah, there are a couple 184 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: of outstanding examples of that. Did Carboning points out a 185 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: single gray whale was sighted off the coast of Israel 186 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: in twenty ten, and in twenty thirteen one was seen 187 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: off the coast of Namibia, and it's uncertain exactly why 188 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: in both of these cases. Hammond at all point out 189 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: that their origin was was almost certainly the North Pacific 190 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: population in both cases though, Yeah, that's great. How would 191 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: they get that far away? Yeah, I mean, I guess 192 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: we know they can swim away as due to their 193 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: to their habitual migrations. But yeah, you want to know 194 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: the story of that wandering whale. Yeah. Now, now coming 195 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: back to that now extinct North Atlantic population. Quick Outlander 196 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: note out for everyone out there. I was reminded of this, 197 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: My wife reminded maybe that we had watched this. But 198 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: the television series adaptation of Outlander has a scene set 199 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: on the coast of South Carolina, and again this is 200 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: about time travelers going back in time, in which two 201 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 1: of our time traveling characters remark about some whale activity 202 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: off the coast and how they wouldn't have seen this 203 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: in their original timelines or in the original times and 204 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: the footage they use in the show, I had to 205 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: check it. It's not gray whales that they're they're using here, 206 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: I believe, but it certainly made me think of the 207 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: scenario that you're like, Yeah, if you went back in 208 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: time before human whaling activity seemingly had a chance to 209 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 1: just drastically alter the ecosystem in the Atlantic, you would 210 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: have potentially seen these great whales, Like it would have 211 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: been possible for me to see gray whales in my 212 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: home state of Georgia, potentially without having to travel to 213 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: the other side of the continent and then to another country. 214 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: And when is this set an outlander? Is this like 215 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:55,719 Speaker 1: early eighteenth century or something. Yeah, the initial transplant I 216 00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: think is from nineteen forty five to seventeen forty three. Okay, Yeah, 217 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: and certainly, as we'll discuss, given the population changes in 218 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: the gray whale at nineteen forty five, it was a 219 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: bad time for the gray whale anyway. This also reminded 220 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: me of something that our previous guest on the show. This, 221 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: I think was while you were out Joe, I talked 222 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: with Ryan Tucker Jones, author of the book Read Leviathan, 223 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: which is largely about Soviet whaling in the Industrial Age, 224 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: but it also discusses just the history of whaling in general, 225 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,199 Speaker 1: and it's it's a fascinating look at like why the 226 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: Soviet Union got increasingly into whaling during the Industrial Age 227 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: and the impact of it, what was also learned scientifically 228 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: from it. And there's a there's a bit in that. 229 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: This is just from the introduction where he writes, quote, 230 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: as someone who grew up in Oregon and California in 231 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties, I experienced the ocean at the whale's 232 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 1: lowest point, an ocean that had been created by the 233 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: Soviet Union as much as anyone. The history of Soviet 234 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 1: whaling belongs to anyone who looks out to the sea 235 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: and sees nothing. Oh yeah, it's there. Are a lot 236 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: of really haunting moments in the book and just a 237 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: lot of great details. Certainly go back and listen to 238 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: that interview for more or or just check out the book. 239 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 1: Just a reminder that the gray whale in particular was 240 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: hunted near the point of extinction by humans. We slaughtered 241 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: them on their migration routes. We slaughtered them in their 242 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: northern feeding grounds, and we slaughtered them in their breeding lagoons. 243 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: They were afforded full protection in nineteen forty six. Those 244 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: Soviet whalers took three hundred and twenty hundred scientific permit 245 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty, along with another one hundred and thirty 246 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: eight illegally. These figures according to Carwadene in Carveding Just 247 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: in case you don't remember, I haven't cited him in 248 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: this episode, but that's Mark Carwadine's Handbook of Whales, Dolphins 249 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: and Porpoises of the World. But adding more context from 250 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: Jones here, he notes that by the end of the 251 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: classical age of whaling, so the pre industrial sailing age 252 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: of whaling, the sort of moby Dick era of whaling. Quote, 253 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: humans mainly Americans, had reduced Pacific gray whales from around 254 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: twenty four thousand to a remnant population of two thousand. 255 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: Atlantic gray whales were entirely extinct, and so from what 256 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: I understand today, Atlantic gray whales they are gone for 257 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: all we know. And then there are the two populations. 258 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: There is the Western Pacific gray whale, which lives along 259 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: the eastern coast of the Asian mainland. That population is, 260 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: from what we can tell, in pretty rough shape today. 261 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: I don't remember how many individuals it's down to, but 262 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: it's estimated to be pretty low, whereas the Eastern Pacific 263 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: gray whale along the coast of North America is doing okay. Yeah. 264 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: And in terms of the classical and industrial whaling, like, 265 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: certain species were impacted more in different in different phases. 266 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: So the gray whales were slower and they tended to 267 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: be closer to shore, so in many respects they were 268 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: easier to catch during that classic age of whaling. Though 269 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: like we mentioned, they they were the devilfish. They could 270 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: certainly put up a hell of a fight as well. 271 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: But as the age of industrial whaling brought many of 272 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: the faster species like blue whales and fins into the 273 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: sort of whaling fold, here those whales had fewer defenses 274 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: against whalers. They'd really only ever had to contend with 275 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: orca jones rides. But meanwhile, in the age of industrialized 276 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: Soviet whaling, quote, gray whales were particularly tricky. Soviet whalers 277 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: noted that, despite being slow, the gray was the only 278 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: whale and he quotes about which no rules of catching 279 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: have been established. Only on rare occasions did gray's move 280 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: in a straight line, instead usually swimming in zigzags, making 281 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: movements to one or the other side without determined direction. 282 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: Science the Soviets hoped might help establish some or other 283 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: pattern to its movement. I wonder if the ways that 284 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: different whales reacted to threats by human whalers was affected 285 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: by the different strategies these species had for dealing with orca. Obviously, 286 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: the threats posed by human whalers and orca are going 287 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: to be of a very different shape and nature, but 288 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: maybe some anti predator strategies aimed at orca were just 289 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: also just also happened to buy coincidence be better at 290 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: evading human whalers. Yeah, it sounds likely because certainly the end, 291 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: one of the things about the industrial ages, you just 292 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: had faster ships and they could keep up with with 293 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: whales and they could get those whales that were further out. 294 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: So gray whales in the North Pacific were greatly reduced 295 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: by this time, and those that remained even were even 296 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: harder to acquire. Jones also notes that by nineteen thirty six, 297 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: the average size of gray whales captured was greatly decreased, 298 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: and the reasoning hero was quote the population was no 299 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: longer seeing its members to adulthood, because again, these are 300 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: creatures that can live I think upwards of late like 301 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: eighty years or so if I'm remembering correctly, and they're 302 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: just they that's how impacted the population was now today. 303 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: Caring notes that while gray whales in general have greatly rebounded, 304 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: and like, if you look them up online, you'll quickly 305 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: see that they're listed as least concern as far as 306 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 1: conservation status goes, which is which is great news. That's 307 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 1: a heck of a comeback story. But they're still threatened 308 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: by oil and gas developments in the Arctic and and 309 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: declining sea ice. Other threats include entanglement in fishing gear, 310 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: occasional illegal harpooning, chemical pollution, noise pollution, ship collision, and 311 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: the expansion of sea salt production in Baja California. In 312 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: my own experience down there in Baja California, I mean, 313 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: the lagoon that we ventured out too in order to 314 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: see the whales was surrounded pretty much only by salt 315 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: industry projects, so I can understand where that would be 316 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: a concern. Carveding also notes that while the Eastern North 317 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 1: Pacific group is doing great at the moment, there was 318 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: you to see some fluctuations. So there was a six 319 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty one whale die off in nineteen ninety 320 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: nine through twenty eleven, and that would have been like 321 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: a twenty three percent population die off, though this doesn't 322 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: necessary daily reflect long term survivability according to the NAA, 323 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: and you can have big swings in population like that 324 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: and it doesn't necessarily speak to how the species is 325 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: doing long term. But that Western North Pacific population, like 326 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: we said earlier, this one, according to Carvedin, is quote, 327 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: one of the most endangered whale populations in the world. 328 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: So even though the species at whole is doing better, 329 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: we're mostly looking at the Eastern North Pacific group as 330 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: opposed to the Western North Pacific group. Again, to whatever extent, 331 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: that's a true separate population because we do see overlap 332 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: in their breeding and behavior. So getting more back into 333 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: just the migration patterns here that are pretty fascinating. We 334 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: have the North Pacific gray whale to contend with here, 335 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: and you have these two basic groups. The Eastern North 336 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: Pacific grays migrate between those Baja California breeding lagoons and 337 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: summer feeding grounds and the bearing chuck Chee and Beaufort seats, 338 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: though this range is expanding as the ice opens up again. 339 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 1: The Western North Pacific grays migrate between winter breeding grounds 340 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: somewhere in the South China Sea to summer feeding grounds 341 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: in the Sea of Okoksk and parts of Kamchatka, and 342 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: there is some mixing of these groups in both the 343 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: summer and winter. Now, the Eastern North Pacific grays have 344 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: the longer of the two migrations, spanning up to fifty 345 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: degrees of latitude according to Carwadine, and the shortest return 346 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: journey for these whales is about twelve thousand kilometers or 347 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: about seven thousand, four hundred and fifty six miles. He 348 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: adds that the longest documented migration of any mammal was 349 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: a female gray whale with a twenty two thousand, five 350 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 1: hundred and eleven kilometer round trip between sakal And Island, 351 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 1: Russia and Baja California, Mexico. So that would have been 352 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 1: again that we're talking about how there is overlap in 353 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 1: the ranges of the eastern and western. Now note that 354 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: there's also apparently a two hundred strong Pacific coast feeding 355 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: group that doesn't migrate all the way up to the 356 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: Arctic at all, but feeds off a coastal area stretching 357 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: between northern California and southeast Alaska. And there's another group 358 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 1: that feeds im Puget Sound. So all right, here are 359 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: the stages of the migration, and in covering these stages, 360 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: we're going to hit on some of the things we've 361 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: discussed already, but try and keep it reasonably. It's the 362 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 1: sink here. But first we'll start with leaving the Arctic. Okay, 363 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: they've been feeding. The whales have been feeding up north, 364 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: and the signal of the head south seems to be 365 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: a combination of the formation of sea ice and the 366 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: decreasing day length. Apparently ninety percent leave the bearing sea 367 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: through intimac Pass on a sixty day journey to Baja California, 368 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: a near term mother's leave first, then other adults, then 369 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: immature females, and then immature males. The last are on 370 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: their way south while the first group is already on 371 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 1: their way back north. Again. Oh, that's interesting. The orca 372 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 1: threat is far less during this part of the cycle. 373 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 1: Again referring back to the the orcas. The orcas are 374 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: are are intelligent and cunning in their hunting of these dangerous, uh, 375 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: these fearsome prey species. So at this point, the whales 376 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: have been feeding all summer long, so they're they're they're 377 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: fueled up, they're they're ready to fight, and their their 378 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: calves are are even larger than they were previously. So 379 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: everybody's stronger, everyone's well fed. It's not to say the 380 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: orcas won't feed or won't attempt to acquire prey, but 381 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: this is not the optimal time to do it. And 382 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: a reminder of what we talked about last time, uh, 383 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: this would be related to the fact that orcas are 384 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:47,199 Speaker 1: going to be mostly trying to prey on newborn whale 385 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: calves for their return journey coming up the migratory corridor 386 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: back to the feeding grounds, because a healthy adult gray 387 00:22:55,880 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: whale is a pretty hard target, and orcas are observed 388 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: to not never, but very rarely try to attack a 389 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: healthy adult. Usually what they're trying to do is separate 390 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: a young calf and and prey on it. Yeah, exactly. 391 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: So they make their way south, and then it's lagoon time, 392 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 1: and there are three main areas that they gather here. 393 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 1: The exact amount of time spent in the lagoon's berries 394 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: depending on sex and the presence of calves. Females with 395 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: young cows just going to hang out far longer because 396 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: you know, they need to bring get that that young 397 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: one up to wait up to strength before they head 398 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: back out again. Whereas like a male that's come down 399 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 1: to breed, you know, obviously he doesn't have to stay 400 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: as long's he can head back up as soon as 401 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 1: he's ready. As we've discussed, these waters provide shelter against 402 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 1: the orca, but they don't provide food. The adult whales 403 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: don't feed while they're in the lagoon, and the whales 404 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: that are born here while they drink their mother's milk, 405 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: and of course that is you know, just going to 406 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 1: sort of drain the mother is even more so this 407 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 1: makes it really important that they fatten up as much 408 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: as possible before the journey south exactly. Yeah, like we said, 409 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: they seem safe from the orca here because the orca 410 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: are hesitant to enter into shallow waters where they won't 411 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: be able to employ their full range of pack hunting techniques. 412 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: And also where I don't know if we mentioned this either, 413 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 1: but there are a lot of whales in these waters. 414 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: Like when I was out there, you'd see just they 415 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: were everywhere. There were just hundreds of them. In fact, 416 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: I saw they had a tallied count even at the 417 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,239 Speaker 1: whale center there and the figures I'm pulling this up 418 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 1: on my phone. I took a picture of it, but 419 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: the total count for mothers with babies was three hundred 420 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: and twenty two. The lonely whale count was two eighty seven. 421 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: So like this is just the count, but it was 422 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: like nine hundred and thirty one whales already during that 423 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: that breeding season. So another reason I guess to tread carefully. 424 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 1: If you're an orca, you know you're going to go 425 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,919 Speaker 1: into this area where you can't use all of your tactics, 426 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: and there are tons of whales that, as we mentioned, 427 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: may work together against you if you present yourself as 428 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: a threat. Right, But that doesn't mean they don't know 429 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 1: about these lagoons, that mean they don't occasionally even venture 430 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: in on a scouting mission. They're out there beyond the 431 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: limits of the lagoons more or less waiting because again, 432 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: as Carveding points out, the orca choose to strike quote 433 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: when natural features tip the balance in their favor. All right, So, 434 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: but eventually it's time to head north again. These they 435 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 1: haven't been feeding. Everyone needs to get back to those 436 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: feeding grounds. So first all the whales except mothers and 437 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: calves leave, and they tend to take the more direct 438 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: route that has brought them there. So, for instance, if 439 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: there's a you know, they stick more or less to 440 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: the coast, But if there's an area where there's like 441 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: a bay or something, or a little inlet, they're more 442 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: likely to just go straight across that inlet instead of 443 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: hugging the coast through all the milks and crannies. Right, 444 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: a little more as the crow flies, right, But when 445 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: the mothers and calves leave. This is about one to 446 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: two months later. The calves have grown stronger on and 447 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: it's there they're far more prepared than they were to 448 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: head out into these dangerous waters. But it ends up 449 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: also being a longer trip for them because they are 450 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: going to stick closer to the shore. They are going 451 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: to travel around all the contours of the shore, you know, 452 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: as much as as possible, rather than crossing or cutting corners. 453 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: And I think it's pretty obvious why right, Because, as 454 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: we discussed last time, one of the main anti predator 455 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: strategies of the gray whale trying to get away from 456 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 1: an orca attack or orca harassment is to retreat into 457 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: the shallows, where the orcas certainly can't attack effectively and 458 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: often won't even try to follow right. So for this reason, 459 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: they tend to stick within two hundred meters or about 460 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: six hundred and fifty six feet of the shore, often 461 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: moving through kelp beds. Now, this is definitely the most 462 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,479 Speaker 1: dangerous part of the whole migration cycle, though in general 463 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: the return trip, because the calves have had a month 464 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: or two to grow and gain strength, but they are 465 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 1: still at their most vulnerable during this leg, so you know, 466 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: the mothers that are protecting them have not fed in months, 467 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: and then increasingly as they move north, I mean they're 468 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 1: they're also going to grow a little bit weaker. They've 469 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: only had the milk to feed off of. And then 470 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: again the orca are going to strike wind conditions are 471 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: most optimal for them. And generally there are two major 472 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: known attack spots along the journey attack hot spots, as 473 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: the literature refers to them. One of them is Monterey 474 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: Bay in California, and the other is Alaska's Unamaic Pass. 475 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: Unamat Pass is the most popular of the two, and 476 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: this has to do with the fact that both the 477 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,360 Speaker 1: mothers and the calves are kind of at optimal weakness here. 478 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 1: This is further north on the return trip, so like 479 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: everything is tipping in favor of the the orca at 480 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: this point, and so a number are just going to 481 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: be picked off during this period. That's just how it goes, 482 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: that's the cycle of predation. But enough are going to 483 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: reach those northern waters, and at that point this whole 484 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: cycle begins again. They reach the northern waters, it's time 485 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: to feed, to gain strength, to fatten up, and the 486 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: whole cycle continues and of course, part of this whole 487 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: cycle is the barnacles, because the barnacle. Again, those calves 488 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 1: are born without the barnacles, but those barnacles will grow. 489 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,719 Speaker 1: The life cycle of the barnacles is tied up with 490 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: the life cycle and the travels of these whales. That's right. 491 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: We are never without our barnacles, are we, whether metaphorical 492 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: or literal. So gray whales, just to do a quick 493 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: refresher on our previous discussions about whales and whale barnacles, 494 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 1: gray whales and other species such as humpbacks and so forth, 495 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: are regularly found carrying a large load of barnacles. And 496 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: a barnacle is a filter feeding crustacean. It's kind of 497 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: like a tiny shrimp that is stationary for the adult 498 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: portion of its life. So a barnacle will generally swim 499 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: around as a larva as a young ling, and it 500 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: will find a suitable substrate, then cement its head to 501 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: that substrate, and then build a hard shell out of 502 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: calcium carbon plates. And these shells can take many different forms. 503 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: They can look like anything from a concrete pumpkin to 504 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: a little volcano, and then they live by filter feeding. 505 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: They wave these little legs called cerri out in the 506 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: water to catch bits of plankton and pull them in 507 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: and eat them. Some species of barnacle specialize in living 508 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: on the bodies of whales, and this is of course 509 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: great for the barnacle because it provides a steady flow 510 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: of water to feed from. Barnacles. Often, when they're not 511 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: on whales, many barnacle species try to find a spot 512 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: in the intertidal zone where the tides are going to 513 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: be moving waters over them in and out all day, 514 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: because they need moving water to help catch their food, 515 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: to bring food to them. I think the way we 516 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: put it was that they need high foot traffic areas. 517 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: So latching onto a whale is a great adaptation. That's 518 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: gonna have water flowing over you all the time as 519 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: the whale swims. But also it's very helpful in that 520 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: it provides protection from predators. And you can see some 521 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: evidence of this in the size that whale barnacles grow 522 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: to and in the fact that they often have a 523 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: shell or plate design that is less defensive looking, like 524 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: they close less completely and often have more fleshy bits 525 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: just kind of poken out all the time. So this 526 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: relationship definitely helps the barnacles. But how does it affect 527 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: the whales. That's not entirely clear. We talked about some 528 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: arguments several different ways in the previous episode. It may 529 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: hurt the whales by causing drag during swimming, would of 530 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: course reduce swimming speed and efficiency for the whale. It 531 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: might possibly also help the whale in some cases by 532 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: providing kind of armor plating for violent encounters with orcas 533 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: or interest specific aggression between say male humpbacks during mating season, 534 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: but that's not certain. That's a maybe. But whatever the 535 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: effect on the whales, it is normal to find gray 536 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: whales covered in hundreds of pounds of barnacles by adulthood, 537 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: so they've got a bunch of barnacles on there. In fact, 538 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: gray whales have a particular specialist type of barnacle that 539 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: is unique to them called crypto lapos rakianecte. So that's 540 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: the background. But I wanted to come back to barnacles 541 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: because I was reading a really interesting article in Hakai 542 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: magazine by an author named Mara Gruenbaum. This was published 543 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 1: in November twenty twenty one, and the article is called 544 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 1: what whale barnacles? No very interesting article worth looking up 545 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: and reading in full, but I just wanted to mention 546 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: a few elements from it that caught my attention. So 547 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: one thing I don't think I fully clocked when we 548 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: talked about whale barnacles in the previous episode is how 549 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: big some of them get. Was some species of whale 550 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: barnacles grow very large compared to most barnacles you would 551 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: find attached to stationary surfaces. The article here compares them 552 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: at the upper end to several things. Compares them to 553 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: the size of a coffee mug, a tennis ball, or 554 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: a clementine orange. Rob. I don't know how big the 555 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: barnacles on the gray whales you saw were, but some 556 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: of these photos I've now seen with other objects for 557 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: scale makes you realize, like, wow, those are some some beasts. Yeah, 558 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: I mean the ones I saw were pretty large, and 559 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: then of course you would you would sometimes see them 560 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: clump together as well, so that kind of adds to 561 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: the feeling. But individually, yeah, some of them are quite large. 562 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: So there's one fact that is off handily alluded to 563 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: in this article that I hadn't come across before, and 564 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 1: it made me want to do some digging because I 565 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: found it fascinating. But there is a passage where Grundbaum 566 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: rites quote these unbudging appendages speaking of whale barnacles, of course, 567 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: which colonize a dozen odd different whale species, latch on 568 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: so tightly that they are practically part of the whale's skin. 569 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: As a result, they were carried into caves by Southern 570 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: African people who foraged washed up whale meat one hundred 571 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: and sixty four thousand years ago. So WHOA, that's an 572 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: image prehistoric people foraging whale meat. I don't know why 573 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have imagined that happened before, but it totally 574 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: makes sense, so I decided to look up the primary 575 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: evidence for this. I believe the author here is citing 576 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: some findings from a place called the Pinnacle Point Cave 577 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: thirteen b in South Africa, in which fragments of whale 578 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: barnacle were found, But this is not, in fact the 579 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 1: only case of whale barnacles being found away from the 580 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: ocean in caves inhabited by prehistoric peoples, giving evidence that 581 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: these people foraged whale meat. Another example I came across 582 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: was a cave in Spain. This was written about in 583 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: a paper by Esteban Alvarez Fernandez at All published in 584 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: the Quaternary Journal in twenty fourteen. Paper is called occurrence 585 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: of Whale barnacles in Nurja Cave, Malaga, Southern Spain Indirect 586 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: evidence of whale consumption by humans in the Upper Magdalenian 587 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: and the authors write, quote, whale barnacles indicate that maritime 588 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 1: oriented forage or human groups found stranded whales on the 589 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: coast and because of the size and weight of the 590 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 1: large bones, transported only certain pieces such as skin, blubber, 591 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: and meat to the caves where they were consumed. And 592 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: so we have this evidence of consumption of whale flesh 593 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: soft parts of whale flesh, not the bones in these 594 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 1: human caves, because the barnacles are in there. How else 595 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: would the barnacles get into these human inhabited caves. They're 596 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 1: stuck to whales all the time. So because many whale 597 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: barnacles are adapted to a particular host species, you can 598 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: also tell in these cases what type of whale meat 599 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 1: the people were eating, and in this case it was 600 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: two different species of barnacle that are found on the 601 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,759 Speaker 1: southern right whale. That's also interesting because these whales are 602 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 1: only found much farther south today, but the author's right quote. 603 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: Because of Antarctic sea ice expansion during the last glacial period, 604 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: these whales could have migrated to the northern hemisphere and 605 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 1: reached southern Spain. Oh wow, that's fascinating. So these are 606 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: not gray whales. But because gray whales also have associated 607 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 1: barnacle species, you could, by the same method, potentially identify 608 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,760 Speaker 1: ancient ranges of gray whales by looking for evidence of 609 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:29,399 Speaker 1: their dedicated barnacles. And there's another way this article gets 610 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: into that. You could look at the prehistory of whales 611 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,240 Speaker 1: that look at the ancient movements of whales by looking 612 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: at barnacles. I'll get to that in the second but 613 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 1: first I wanted to mention a couple of other interesting facts. 614 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: So one thing is this article just describes some of 615 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: the difficulties in the research on whale barnacles, like it's 616 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: hard to acquire whale barnacles alive and study them, say, 617 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: to study their reproduction in the lab, for obvious reasons 618 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 1: and for less obvious ones. The obvious reasons would be 619 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: like they are attached to living whales, and the less 620 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:07,839 Speaker 1: obvious reasons would be because these barnacles are not as 621 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 1: they're not as hardy from taking them out of their 622 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,800 Speaker 1: natural environment because, for example, these whale barnacles typically can't 623 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 1: seal themselves shut completely, so they can't fully close the 624 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,919 Speaker 1: door to keep the water inside when you remove them 625 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: from their original context. So like you find a whale 626 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,279 Speaker 1: washed up on a beach, the whale barnacles on it 627 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 1: will typically die pretty quick, and so no one. The 628 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: article stresses how nobody really has figured out yet the 629 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: right way to care for and preserve the lives of 630 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: these animals once they are taken off of the whale 631 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: they belong to. But there's another thing I wanted to emphasize, 632 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: grin Bond describes, which is the kind of the more 633 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: body horror aspect of the boundary point between whale and barnacle, 634 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: which is maybe kind of a gray area, is like 635 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:02,720 Speaker 1: where one begins and the other ends. Grunbaum writes, quote, 636 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: each of these barnacles has a shell structure specially evolved 637 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: to anchor itself into its host's flesh. Many species have 638 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: chambers within their wall plates into which prongs of whale 639 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:20,320 Speaker 1: skin grow upward, strengthening the barnacle's grip. And this further 640 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 1: explains actually like why it is hard to access living 641 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: whale barnacles for research. It's not just a question to 642 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 1: kind of like popping one of them off. It would 643 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 1: generally require cutting into the whale's flesh to separate the 644 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: barnacle from the whale. Oh yeah, yeah, I mean this, 645 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 1: you know, comes back to like why do the gray 646 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: whales have their their signature appearance, And a lot of 647 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: it is like part of its the barnacles, but also 648 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: like these gray sort of splotches on their body scars 649 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: from various things, including scars from where the barnacles were 650 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: previously attached. Yeah, yeah, scars, because they're like, you know, 651 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,399 Speaker 1: they really like grab a hold they get in there. 652 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 1: Another thing I've read about is that apparently areas underneath 653 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: the barnacles tend to become depigmented on whale skin, so 654 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: you can often see them by that there'll be like 655 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 1: a different shade than the surrounding skin. Now we're gonna 656 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 1: about to get into a really interesting area here, because 657 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: you know, the thing about living your full life on 658 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 1: a migratory large mammal like this is that your life 659 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 1: cycle is intrinsically tied to the movements in life cycle 660 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: of your host species, that's right, and partially for this reason, 661 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,400 Speaker 1: there's so much we don't know about the whale barnacle 662 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 1: life cycle. There's things we don't know about their cycles 663 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,399 Speaker 1: and their reproduction. They're just hard to study. So they 664 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: seem to mate with other barnacles nearby on the same whale, 665 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: but they wait until the whales go to their coastal 666 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: breeding and calving grounds to release their larvae. And these 667 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,240 Speaker 1: larvae are probably guided by an attraction to a chemical 668 00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,719 Speaker 1: signal that helps them find the whale skin. This could 669 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: be a chemical emitted by other barnacles already present. So 670 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: maybe there's kind of a you know, I don't think 671 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: korum sensing is the right word. That's from different but 672 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 1: you know, they sense a congregation of their kind, or 673 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 1: it could be a biosignature from the skin of the 674 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: whale itself. Maybe they're attracted to some kind of signature 675 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: mammalian molecule. They also have to do some crawling around 676 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,759 Speaker 1: on the whale as larvae before they cement themselves down, 677 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: because you don't just go anywhere on the whale. There 678 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 1: are favored regions of the whale's body, often the forehead, 679 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,880 Speaker 1: the tail, and the forward facing edges of the flippers, 680 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: and I think this is because it increases their access 681 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,920 Speaker 1: to flowing water and the plankton in it. But finally, 682 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 1: there's a really big interesting thread in this article that's 683 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:48,799 Speaker 1: about studying the chemical composition of whale barnacle shells to 684 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 1: determine where whales travel. So barnacles are there, you know, 685 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: their shell builders. They are constantly building up new layers 686 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: of their calcium carbonate plates, And at some point researchers 687 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: figured out that you could look at the layers of 688 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: these plates kind of like tree rings, but by analyzing 689 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,400 Speaker 1: the ratio of oxygen isotopes in each layer, you couldn't 690 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,720 Speaker 1: just tell, you know, it's not just counting the tree rings. 691 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: You could actually say a lot about the properties of 692 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: the water in which each layer was formed, So what 693 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: was the temperature of the water, what was the salinity, etc. 694 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: And actually you could then compare that information to things 695 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,800 Speaker 1: we know about different regions of the ocean at different times, 696 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: and this would allow you, by proxy to roughly track 697 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,759 Speaker 1: the migration history of the whale on which a barnacle 698 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 1: lived by peeling back and analyzing the mini layers of 699 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,640 Speaker 1: its plates and Researchers initially studied this on the shells 700 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: of living or recently living barnacles, but it turns out 701 00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: you could even do this with fossilized remains of whale barnacles, 702 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,400 Speaker 1: and by this method you can track the movements not 703 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: only of living whales or recently living whales, but whales 704 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 1: that lived hundreds of thousands of years ago, and that information, 705 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: in turn can help shed light on unsolved problems in 706 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:20,760 Speaker 1: whale evolutions, such as when and why did billeen whales 707 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 1: start migrating groombaumb Wrights quote. One hypothesis suggests that it 708 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,400 Speaker 1: happened around three million years ago, when massive ice sheets 709 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,560 Speaker 1: started spreading across much of the northern hemisphere. The colder 710 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: temperatures would have frozen whales out of some of their 711 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 1: habitats and put more constraints on where plankton could flourish 712 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: in Earth's oceans, and the patterns that came to exist 713 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,400 Speaker 1: in the locations of these, say food and shelter resources, 714 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:53,239 Speaker 1: would therefore lead to the establishment of migration patterns over time. 715 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 1: We don't know exactly how it happened, but that's one idea, 716 00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 1: and so it seems like we can now maybe use 717 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 1: fossilized whale barnacles to get some insight into what those 718 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:10,320 Speaker 1: ancient patterns of migration were when they changed, and what 719 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 1: those what those changes might coincide with is, say, in 720 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:17,399 Speaker 1: the climate sphere. And this of course can help shed 721 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 1: light on things today as well. Doesn't just tell us 722 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 1: about the past, because understanding when and why ancient whales 723 00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:28,239 Speaker 1: started changing their migratory patterns, for example, in relationship to 724 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,879 Speaker 1: ocean temperatures and sea level and so forth, that could 725 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,439 Speaker 1: help us understand what's likely to happen in the near 726 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:38,200 Speaker 1: future with oceans being affected by our rapidly heating planet. 727 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 1: So anyway, it was just a few notes from there, 728 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:45,279 Speaker 1: but that article What Whale Barnacles Know very interesting worth 729 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,400 Speaker 1: a read. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's interesting to 730 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: think about. It's easy to dismiss the barnacles. It's just 731 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,320 Speaker 1: this hanger on, just this sex up parasite of the whale, 732 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,480 Speaker 1: But there's so much information tied up in the barnacle 733 00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,799 Speaker 1: about the host species. Well, this has been this has 734 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 1: been a really fun journey. I've really enjoyed getting to 735 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 1: dive in to researching the gray whale. After getting to 736 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,719 Speaker 1: have this experience with them. I guess some people would 737 00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 1: probably do this in reverse order to do their research 738 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 1: and then have the experience, but for whatever reason, I 739 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,640 Speaker 1: end up doing it the other way around most of 740 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,359 Speaker 1: the time. But I enjoyed I kind of that's one 741 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,239 Speaker 1: way to sort of draw out these experiences. Oh, I 742 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,120 Speaker 1: don't think it's a bad way at all, experience and 743 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,760 Speaker 1: then reflect. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, I've cited several 744 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: authors and sources that were helpful in the research for 745 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 1: these episodes, but I'd also like to throw in some 746 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 1: hefty things to the local guides at the Ojo de 747 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: Layabre Lagoon, some of which have been doing this sort 748 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,240 Speaker 1: of guide work every year for something like thirty five years, 749 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:43,239 Speaker 1: as well as the international tour guides that I had there, 750 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:48,040 Speaker 1: Keith Hassan and Donna in particular. Everyone was delightful and 751 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,000 Speaker 1: full of wonderful facts and observations about the whales, and 752 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 1: I also really enjoyed the company of the folks that 753 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,359 Speaker 1: my family toured with. In case any of you out 754 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,440 Speaker 1: there having to be listening, the great thing about a 755 00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,920 Speaker 1: trip like this is that no one is that they 756 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: are is just kind of sort of into Wales like everyone, 757 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:07,000 Speaker 1: At least in my experience, everyone was really excited, really 758 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:12,040 Speaker 1: into them, and really compassionate for them. So yeah, just 759 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,280 Speaker 1: a shout out if should any of you be listening. 760 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:16,600 Speaker 1: All right, we're gonna go ahead and close the book 761 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 1: on this one, but we'll be back with more episodes 762 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,120 Speaker 1: next week. Just a reminder that Stuff to Blow Your 763 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,160 Speaker 1: Mind is primarily a science podcast, with core episodes publishing 764 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,000 Speaker 1: on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but on Mondays we do listener mail. 765 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,600 Speaker 1: On Wednesday's a short form artifact or monster fact episode, 766 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,359 Speaker 1: and on Fridays we do Weird House Cinema. That's our 767 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,520 Speaker 1: time to set aside most serious concerns and just talk 768 00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,799 Speaker 1: about a strange film. Huge thanks to our audio producer 769 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,239 Speaker 1: JJ Poseway. If you would like to get in touch 770 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,879 Speaker 1: with us with feedback on this episode or any other, 771 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:47,200 Speaker 1: to suggest a topic for the future, to share something interesting, 772 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,560 Speaker 1: or just to say hello, you can email us at 773 00:44:49,680 --> 00:45:00,359 Speaker 1: contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff 774 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,239 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For more 775 00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:06,880 Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio, it's the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 776 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,760 Speaker 1: or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.