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Speaker 1: Film Spotting is presented by Regal Unlimited, the all you

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Speaker 1: can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in

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Speaker 1: Regal app or at the link in our description and

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Speaker 1: use code film spot twenty six to receive fifteen percent off.

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Speaker 2: What kind of a show you guys putting on here today?

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Speaker 1: You're not interested in art?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 1: No, Look, we're going to do this thing. We're going

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Speaker 1: to have a conversation from Chicago. This is film Spotting.

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Speaker 1: I'm Josh Larson and I'm Adam Kempinar Teddy.

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Speaker 4: Don't believe he's lies.

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Speaker 3: He's the one kill him.

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Speaker 5: I finally found him if I've been looking.

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Speaker 1: Not all movie narrators are created equal. Some talk to

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Speaker 1: us straight, and some turn out to be not so trustworthy.

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Speaker 6: This week's Film Spotting Top five unreliable narrative plus a

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Speaker 6: curakura saw was nineteen fifty masterpiece Raschoman. By my count,

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Speaker 6: four unreliable narrators in that one. It's all ahead on

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Speaker 6: film Spotting. Welcome to film Spotting. I think Josh, the

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Speaker 6: disclaimer should be don't believe anything you hear on this

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Speaker 6: week's show.

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Speaker 1: Just this week. Okay, you're giving us a lot of credit.

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Speaker 6: Yes, yes, Later in the show, a husband, a wife,

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Speaker 6: a bandit, and a woodcutter all walk into a forest,

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Speaker 6: and the joke has to end there because we don't

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Speaker 6: know what really happened after that.

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Speaker 7: You're not gonna respond.

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Speaker 1: To Raschoman's been been confounding people for Oh man, do

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Speaker 1: we want to do this seventy six years now?

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Speaker 7: Seventy six years? Indeed?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, look at that.

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Speaker 7: Math nineteen fifty.

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Speaker 6: It at least gave you an even nice even year

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Speaker 6: to do the math with confounding people like my joke.

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Speaker 7: Apparently did there a curra cur i was?

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Speaker 6: Rashamon is a twenty twenty six film Spotting Pantheon nominee.

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Speaker 6: We are taking another look at it, and we're gonna

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Speaker 6: ask listeners to choose one and only one eighties Rob

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Speaker 6: Reiner movie and take just a second and consider what

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Speaker 6: that means. We don't even have to give you the

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Speaker 6: titles potentially the best Documentary, best Coming of age movie,

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Speaker 6: Best Romantic Comedy, and best Fantasy.

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Speaker 7: That's your choice.

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Speaker 1: Pretty good run, pretty good run.

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Speaker 6: There a quick reminder Film Spotting is now available as

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Speaker 6: a video podcast. You can now watch the show on YouTube,

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Speaker 6: YouTube dot com slash film Spotting. For a link to

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Speaker 6: those video episodes and all of our episodes, you can

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Speaker 6: go to filmspotting dot net slash episodes. Josh, speaking of video,

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Speaker 6: what backdrop are you giving us this week?

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Speaker 7: What layer are you in?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 7: Where in the world is.

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Speaker 1: Josh Larson explained to our loyal video viewers. This is

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Speaker 1: not I haven't upgraded the Scotland flat. I'm very flat.

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Speaker 1: We are back on the road. It's my spring break.

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Speaker 1: Apparently they do spring break end of February. Adam here

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Speaker 1: at University of St. Andrews. So Debbie and I are

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Speaker 1: yes off as I mentioned on an earlier show, and

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Speaker 1: I am coming to live from Scotland. The hotel where

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Speaker 1: I was kind enough, Scotland, Stockholm. I don't even remember

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Speaker 1: where I am anymore.

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Speaker 7: I was going to correct you. You didn't catch it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, in Stockholm for this evening tomorrow we had

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Speaker 1: to Copenhagen, where in a couple of days we'll be

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Speaker 1: having a film Spotting meetup. So looking forward to that.

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Speaker 1: It's coming up this weekend. And yeah, this is where

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Speaker 1: we're doing the show tonight, very excited to get into it.

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Speaker 7: I'm excited as well.

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Speaker 6: First up, here is the film spotting Top five Unreliable Narrators.

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Speaker 6: Of course inspired by the movie. We will discuss a

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Speaker 6: bit later. Ras Oman, Josh, how did you go about

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Speaker 6: approaching this list?

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Speaker 1: First off, I'm glad you said that for those who

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Speaker 1: in the future might just be jump being in for

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Speaker 1: this top five list right and not knowing that we

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Speaker 1: paired it to Raschaman. What would they have thought if

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Speaker 1: they listened to this whole list and we never we

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Speaker 1: never mentioned it. So this is, you know, essentially what

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Speaker 1: we'd like to call a Raschaman memorial list. I'm a

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Speaker 1: little more hesitant to do that than you are when

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Speaker 1: it seems like there's an obvious shared number one. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's because I don't like in retrospect if someone looked

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Speaker 1: at the list and it is like, where is that title?

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Speaker 1: So we are doing this inspired by Raschoman, And you know,

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Speaker 1: I kind of felt, Adam when I sat down to

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Speaker 1: make this list, that there were a handful of other

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Speaker 1: obvious had to be their titles. So it'll be interesting

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Speaker 1: to see what we share and maybe what listeners think

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Speaker 1: we might have missed. I also realized, when I put

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Speaker 1: together that had to be their list, that almost all

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Speaker 1: of them came out around the year two thousand. I

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Speaker 1: could have easily compiled a very worthy top five unreliable

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Speaker 1: narrators from that era. I don't know. Was there something

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Speaker 1: about the turn of the millennium that we were just,

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Speaker 1: you know, insecurity in the air instability anticipated that the

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Speaker 1: movies turned to these unreliable narrators. I'll leave that essay

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Speaker 1: for someone else to write. But I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: just do that. I wanted to spread the wealth historically,

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Speaker 1: so I did look elsewhere for a couple of my picks.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully between the two of this we have circa two

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Speaker 1: thousand well covered. Now, as far as the terminology we're

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Speaker 1: using here, what an unreliable mean to me? I think, basically,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's self evident, but I did want to

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Speaker 1: move beyond just the narrator of a movie. I do

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Speaker 1: have some cases of that, but I also wanted to

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Speaker 1: allow the movie itself to be unreliable. And my top

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Speaker 1: two are actually unreliable in their very form, again not

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Speaker 1: just because of a certain character, but actually how they're made.

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Speaker 1: So that will be something I'm looking forward to getting into. Also,

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Speaker 1: just want to stay from the top because this involves

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Speaker 1: a lot of spoilers a list like this, right, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna okay, some of these unreliable narrators are plot twists,

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Speaker 1: so fair warning. There might be a chance that there's

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Speaker 1: a movie you haven't quite seen we're going to talk about.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think either of us are going to

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Speaker 1: necessarily hold back if we feel like we need to

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Speaker 1: talk about that. No spoiler element.

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Speaker 6: No, all of these movies have been out for a

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Speaker 6: while and it will be essential in some cases. Now

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Speaker 6: other than the fact that, as we did previously discuss

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Speaker 6: when we were teasing this top five, we're calling it

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Speaker 6: unreliable narrators, but we are talking about the movies. Our

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Speaker 6: picks are movies, not the characters or narrators themselves. Other

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Speaker 6: than that, I was fairly literal, Josh, and not picking

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Speaker 6: unreliable narratives. So I'll be interested in seeing how how

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Speaker 6: you make your case. I mean, it did have to

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Speaker 6: have a narrator for me in order to pick it.

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Speaker 6: Now that said, I got this email. We got this

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Speaker 6: email from Josh Ashen Miller in la who said, speaking

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Speaker 6: of other maybe obvious picks. I know it's in the pantheon,

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Speaker 6: but I have to suggest Apocalypse Now, that opening scene

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Speaker 6: breakdown makes us wonder about Captain Willard for the whole

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Speaker 6: length of the movie. So in doing my research, this

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Speaker 6: did come up, not Apocalypse Now specifically, but Captain Willard,

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Speaker 6: or the Captain Willard question, I suppose you could say,

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Speaker 6: came up again and again, and it was one I

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Speaker 6: had to wrestle with because I think you could ask

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Speaker 6: it about this movie as well in an even more

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Speaker 6: explicit way about another Pantheon pick, and that's Taxi Driver

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Speaker 6: with Travis Bikel as your narrator, where their point of view,

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Speaker 6: because of their state of mind, you could say it

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Speaker 6: calls into question everything that they are relaying to us.

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Speaker 6: I think that that's very fair, and I understand why

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Speaker 6: Josh might propose that he is an unreliable narrator. I

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Speaker 6: understand why they come up on lists of unreliable narrators,

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Speaker 6: or at least I definitely saw Travis Bickle come up

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Speaker 6: on those types of lists. For me, beyond the fact

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Speaker 6: that those two movies are in the pantheon and thus

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Speaker 6: ineligible for sure, either of our lists. It actually did

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Speaker 6: help me crystallize how I wanted to approach this top five,

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Speaker 6: and for me, I had to go beyond mere recognition

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Speaker 6: of subjectivity. And in the case of the two films

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Speaker 6: I just mentioned and many others skewered subjectivity, the audience

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Speaker 6: has to be engaged in the act of questioning, and

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Speaker 6: I'm going to go so far as to say aggressively

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Speaker 6: confronted with the absence of the narrator's objectivity. So basically,

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Speaker 6: from an early point in the film, if not the

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Speaker 6: opening scene, you're writing along that edge the entire time.

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Speaker 6: Whereas a viewer you have some skepticism, and that skepticism

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Speaker 6: ends up actually being a crucial part of the viewing process.

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Speaker 6: You're almost interacting with the film on that level. And

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Speaker 6: because of that, I had a really good reason to

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Speaker 6: leave off any movie that with the narrator has a

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Speaker 6: major twist ending, because with twist ending movies that's completely absent.

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Speaker 6: There's no twist with those films. The twist works because

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Speaker 6: you buy into the reliability of the narrator from the jump.

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Speaker 6: That's the whole point, other than the fact that you're

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Speaker 6: suspending disbelief because it's a movie you are believing everything

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Speaker 6: you're being fed, and so you're shocked at the end

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Speaker 6: when the rug is pulled out from under you with

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Speaker 6: my picks. There's no rug. No, there's nothing, there's no

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Speaker 6: foundation really from the very beginning. Of course, we've also

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Speaker 6: already done our favorite movies with twist ending, so that

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Speaker 6: just felt like a different list to me. Now, I

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Speaker 6: don't want to mention them here because one may or

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Speaker 6: maybe more may come up between our lists, and I'll

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Speaker 6: just save them for the end anyway, because it is

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Speaker 6: very hard to separate twist ending movies and unreliable narrator movies,

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Speaker 6: so we'll probably cover some by the time we get

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Speaker 6: through this top five.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's an interesting distinction and certainly probably

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Speaker 1: helpful and narrowing down a list, as it sounds like

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Speaker 1: it was for you. I didn't restrict myself that way,

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Speaker 1: so I think I have I probably have two, as

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Speaker 1: I think about it, that qualify as twists, but both

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Speaker 1: in interesting ways, especially the one as we get higher

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Speaker 1: up on my list. But yeah, my number five actually

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Speaker 1: involves a twist, so perhaps a good place to start.

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Speaker 1: This is also where I get quite historical, because I'm

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Speaker 1: going back to nineteen twenty For this one. My number

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Speaker 1: five is the Cabinet of Doctor Caligari, This silent horror landmark.

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Speaker 1: It's remembered, I mean the title. It's remembered as the

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Speaker 1: story of doctor Caligari and his sideshow attraction, Sayzar, this

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Speaker 1: somnambulist who answers questions from the crowd while in a

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Speaker 1: catatonic state. But the movie is actually a narrated flashback

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Speaker 1: the entire thing by a different character, this despondent young

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Speaker 1: man named Francis, and Francis his friend, was mysteriously murdered.

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Speaker 1: We hear at the beginning after a visit to the

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Speaker 1: town fair where doctor Caligary was performing, and in Francis's telling,

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Speaker 1: he goes on to discover that Calgary, yes, has been

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Speaker 1: instructing Czar to kill So this movie essentially becomes a

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Speaker 1: very early serial killer thriller that essentially as Francis as

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Speaker 1: the hero slash investigator. But yeah, remember I said, in

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Speaker 1: Francis's telling, which may not be so trustworthy, and this

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Speaker 1: is a twist ending Adam, it has one of the

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Speaker 1: first shock twist endings that did reveal the extent of

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Speaker 1: Francis's unreliability. That's why it counted for me for this list.

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Speaker 1: But honestly, I just wanted another excuse to nudge anyone

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Speaker 1: who hasn't seen Caligauri to make the time for it.

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Speaker 1: It's my number three horror film of all time. The

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Speaker 1: expressionism that it's you know, mostly known for, I would say,

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Speaker 1: has rarely ever been matched, and not just in the

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Speaker 1: jagged sets that people are probably already picturing, but also

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Speaker 1: that color tinting that's employed on certain frames, and really

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Speaker 1: even the scrawl design of the intertitles have their own, yeah,

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Speaker 1: ferocity to them, but really that reveal that we get

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Speaker 1: I feel like it works on more than a gotcha level. Well,

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Speaker 1: the unreliability at play is quite disturbing. It's the sort

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Speaker 1: that just has you has you questioning your own mind

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. So that's why for me,

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Speaker 1: the Cabinet of Doctor Caligari was good enough, good enough

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Speaker 1: to qualify here at number five.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a really interesting choice, one that was completely

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Speaker 6: out of mind for me, and one that's been out

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Speaker 6: of mind for a long time because I haven't seen

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Speaker 6: it in so long. I think it might have been

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Speaker 6: part of a pretty early film spotting marathon. But it's

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Speaker 6: also one I remember having to watch in film school.

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Speaker 6: Being glad I watched it in film school, so it

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Speaker 6: was nice to be reminded of it. I'm kind of

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Speaker 6: mad at you, though, for reminding me or bringing up

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Speaker 6: this notion of movies around the year two thousand, because

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Speaker 6: fortunately I didn't pay attention to that. I didn't note

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Speaker 6: the years with my movies, Josh, at all, except for

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Speaker 6: my number five pick. And so as you said that,

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Speaker 6: I kind of glanced at my other choice and I realized, Oh,

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Speaker 6: all of my picks.

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Speaker 7: I like my list a lot.

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Speaker 6: All of my picks are from the two thousands, and

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Speaker 6: four of them are from right around the year two thousand.

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Speaker 7: So I don't know.

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Speaker 6: I like your hypothesis, yeah, but I don't know. If

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Speaker 6: I had been aware of it, maybe I would have

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Speaker 6: forced myself in different directions. Nevertheless, I'm going to stick

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Speaker 6: with my list, and I'm going to stick with my

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Speaker 6: number five, a film from the year two thousand. It's

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Speaker 6: Mary Heron's American Psycho, a movie that I liked the

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Speaker 6: one time I saw it back in the year two thousand,

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Speaker 6: but I didn't love it, ironically, perhaps because I didn't

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Speaker 6: enjoy the ambiguity of the conclusion. I couldn't rely on

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Speaker 6: what Heron, as the storyteller wanted the main character and

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Speaker 6: thus me as the viewer, to understand what was reality

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Speaker 6: versus what was fantasy. And not only would I just

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Speaker 6: generally like to revisit it because it has been twenty

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Speaker 6: six years, I just wonder if I would appreciate that

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Speaker 6: ambiguity much more now. What I did appreciate then, and

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Speaker 6: what so many people did, was Bail's performance as Patrick

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Speaker 6: Bateman and his narration adapted by Heron and Guenevere Turner

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Speaker 6: from the Brett Easton Ellis novel.

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Speaker 5: There are no more barriers to cross. All I have

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Speaker 5: in common with the uncontrollable and the insane, the vicious

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Speaker 5: and the evil, all the mayhem I have caused, am

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Speaker 5: I utter indifference toward it?

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Speaker 1: I have now.

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Speaker 6: Surpassed that gentle precision, that too gentle precision of his voice,

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Speaker 6: the hyper superficiality.

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Speaker 7: Of his thoughts.

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Speaker 6: They all do suggest that there has to be a

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Speaker 6: much darker being lurking behind that herb mint facial mask

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Speaker 6: and after shave lotion with little or no alcohol. You

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Speaker 6: know that he puts on in the morning, then moisturizer,

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Speaker 6: then an anti aging EYEBALLMB followed by a final moisturizing

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Speaker 6: protect lotion. You know, Josh, the same routine you go

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Speaker 6: through every single morning.

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Speaker 7: Right.

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Speaker 6: We immediately have a sense that something is very off

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Speaker 6: and that his perspective isn't to be totally trusted, whether

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Speaker 6: he's aware of it or not. But guess what, he

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Speaker 6: is aware of it, and he calls our attention to it.

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Speaker 6: In the opening narration, he tells us there is an

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Speaker 6: idea of a Patrick Bateman, some kind of abstraction, but

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Speaker 6: there is no real me, only an entity, something illusory.

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Speaker 6: And though I can hide my cold gaze and you

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Speaker 6: can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours, and

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Speaker 6: maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable,

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Speaker 6: I simply am not there. That's the beginning of the film, Josh.

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Speaker 6: How can you trust the musings and memories of an

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Speaker 6: abstraction of a ghost at best? And also, just thinking

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Speaker 6: about this movie, I have been thinking about it a

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Speaker 6: lot because in terms of oppressions, I don't know sadly

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Speaker 6: that this movie in some ways has ever not been.

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Speaker 7: Relevant since it came out. But tell me that.

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Speaker 6: If you're even familiar with this person, and in Josh,

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Speaker 6: I largely hope you're not. You're leading a happier life

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Speaker 6: if you're not. But tell me that some douche like

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Speaker 6: clavicular isn't Jess Patrick Bateman. You know, Patrick Bateman is

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Speaker 6: just the patron saint of every MAHA influencer bro on TikTok.

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Speaker 6: I feel like I'm seeing Patrick Bateman every time. I'm

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Speaker 6: usually not fortunately seeing them pop up on my feed.

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Speaker 6: I'm seeing them pop up on my feed only when

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Speaker 6: I'm seeing other people annihilating them for how douchey they are.

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Speaker 6: So they're out there, man, there's way too many Patrick

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Speaker 6: Bateman's out there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I hadn't you know what. I hadn't thought about

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Speaker 1: that connection in a long time. I haven't seen this

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Speaker 1: movie since it came out, but that tracks that tracks

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Speaker 1: for my memory.

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Speaker 7: No, Ironey, lots of Patrick Bateman.

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Speaker 1: We're still stuck with guys like that, aren't we. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's an interesting scenario for the unreliable narrative because this

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Speaker 1: is almost one where there isn't a twist ending, because

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Speaker 1: especially going to see the movie, if you're aware of

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Speaker 1: the book, you know, you just know who this guy is,

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Speaker 1: and it is more about, yeah, watching the facade and

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Speaker 1: how he tries to keep it up and how it crumbles.

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Speaker 1: Also one that I should probably revisit because, like I said,

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Speaker 1: it's been since it first came out, and I think

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Speaker 1: I was probably yeah, mixed to mild on it as

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Speaker 1: it sounds like you were, so do for a revisit.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited to throw this number for at you

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Speaker 1: ad him because another sort of theory here that I'm

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Speaker 1: very curious to hear what you think of it. It's

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Speaker 1: a curveball pick the top five idea prompted it for me,

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Speaker 1: and then I was also prompted by the fact that

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Speaker 1: there's this new documentary out Ghost Elephants Nature documentary, but

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Speaker 1: directed by Werner Herzog. So here's my question. Is Werner

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Speaker 1: Herzog one of cinema's foremost unreliable narrators. He is notorious

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Speaker 1: for his narrations of his documentaries. Right, They're absolutely singular these,

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Speaker 1: aren't you know, a calm voice delivering facts. This is

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Speaker 1: someone filtering factual things the real world through his own

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Speaker 1: distinctly interpretive lens. This is this is one element of

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Speaker 1: what everyone calls Herzog's ecstatic truth right. His narration is

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Speaker 1: part of that. So this made me wonder, do we

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Speaker 1: really know Timothy Treadwell of Grizzly Man, or do we

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Speaker 1: only know Herzog's particular version of him? Is there a

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Speaker 1: certain unreliability in what we're being told as well in

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Speaker 1: how it's being framed, especially by Herzog the on screen narrator.

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Speaker 2: Treadwell is gone, the argument how wrong, how right?

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Speaker 1: He was?

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Speaker 2: Disappears into a distance, into a what remains is his footage.

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Speaker 1: My pick isn't Grizzly Man, because I think there might

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Speaker 1: be a better test case for this for this question,

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Speaker 1: and it's my best fiend, So that's where I'm going

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Speaker 1: here with my number four pick. This is Herzog's documentary

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Speaker 1: account of his tumultuous relationship with volatile actor Klaus Kinski,

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Speaker 1: who is the star of five Herzog films like Ageara

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Speaker 1: of the Wrath of God Knows Fratu and Fitzkaraldo my

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Speaker 1: best theme. It was made a number of years after

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Speaker 1: Kinski's death, and there isn't a lot of room here

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Speaker 1: for Kinski's own voice. Herzog does read a passage from

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Speaker 1: Kinsky's autobiography at one point. And it's very amusing because

355
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Speaker 1: in that passage, Kinsky is basically describing Herzog in the

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Speaker 1: same egomaniacal terms that Herzog in the documentary, has been

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Speaker 1: using to describe Kinsky. So you do get a real

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Speaker 1: sense of, you know, the back and forth between these

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Speaker 1: two men. I don't think this is a hatchet job

360
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Speaker 1: add all. I mean you get a real sense of

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Speaker 1: their relationship, of the love and respect the two of

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Speaker 1: them had. But there is something inherently unreliable about trying

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Speaker 1: to capture the fullness of a man through such a

364
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Speaker 1: particularly personal lens. So yes, this is a very different

365
00:21:36,725 --> 00:21:39,485
Speaker 1: kind of unreliability that we're mostly going to be talking

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Speaker 1: about here. But I think it fits. I was kind

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Speaker 1: of more intrigued to probe the question the more I

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Speaker 1: thought about it. But I'm thrown at you because you're

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Speaker 1: a huge Herzoga fan and just loved to get your

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Speaker 1: thoughts on us. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: My immediate response is I'm angry at you for, on

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Speaker 6: one level, violating the integrity of the top five. And

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Speaker 6: I say that that. I say that because kind of

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Speaker 6: going back to what I was alluding to earlier, that

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Speaker 6: line of even though you know you're watching a narrative,

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Speaker 6: you know you're watching a fiction. We as viewers are

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Speaker 6: so buying into the reality of it, but then the

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Speaker 6: the unreliability of the narrator and that tension is at

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Speaker 6: the core of what this top five is all about.

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Speaker 6: So if you bring quote unquote actual reality into it,

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Speaker 6: then it it kind of undercuts that. Though we can

382
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Speaker 6: all we can also go into that realm of yes,

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Speaker 6: but we also now know and discuss constantly how even

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Speaker 6: documentaries are their own version of subjective truths. Beyond that, though,

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Speaker 6: I will just say my other reaction is I'm angry

386
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Speaker 6: at you for having thought of it first and not me,

387
00:22:57,965 --> 00:23:00,245
Speaker 6: because I think it's I think it's pretty I think

388
00:23:00,285 --> 00:23:04,845
Speaker 6: it's pretty brilliant, and and I think it it makes

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00:23:04,885 --> 00:23:07,485
Speaker 6: sense if you if you're willing to go into the

390
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Speaker 6: realm of documentary for this top five. Herzog's obviously the

391
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Speaker 6: place to go because of what you said, because he

392
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Speaker 6: so succumbs to his notion of the extent truth, because

393
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Speaker 6: he buys into that so wholeheartedly, he believes in it

394
00:23:27,045 --> 00:23:33,045
Speaker 6: so devotedly, and he again and again displays it in

395
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Speaker 6: his films, whether it's on grandiose levels and has grandiose

396
00:23:38,165 --> 00:23:41,525
Speaker 6: displays of it or these very small displays of it

397
00:23:41,605 --> 00:23:45,205
Speaker 6: that honestly, unless you're doing research on the film later

398
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Speaker 6: or someone points it out to you, or Herzog himself

399
00:23:47,925 --> 00:23:50,965
Speaker 6: points it out, you wouldn't even know it was some

400
00:23:51,085 --> 00:23:55,445
Speaker 6: kind of manufacturing of the truth or a modification of

401
00:23:55,525 --> 00:23:58,925
Speaker 6: the truth. But he can't help it. He likes to lie.

402
00:23:59,245 --> 00:24:01,485
Speaker 6: He likes to lie within his movies. He sees a

403
00:24:01,525 --> 00:24:05,165
Speaker 6: purpose to his lies within his films. And I actually

404
00:24:05,245 --> 00:24:08,244
Speaker 6: was just watching it's on YouTube. I highly recommend it.

405
00:24:08,285 --> 00:24:09,005
Speaker 6: Just a few weeks ago.

406
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Speaker 7: I watched.

407
00:24:09,525 --> 00:24:12,085
Speaker 6: It's only about forty five minutes long, and I think

408
00:24:12,125 --> 00:24:16,365
Speaker 6: it's from I think it's from the nineteen seventies. Yeah,

409
00:24:16,405 --> 00:24:21,765
Speaker 6: nineteen seventy four, Herzog made a documentary about a skier,

410
00:24:22,285 --> 00:24:26,405
Speaker 6: a ski jumper, you know those like the Winter Olympics,

411
00:24:26,405 --> 00:24:27,885
Speaker 6: you know where they just go down the ramp and

412
00:24:27,885 --> 00:24:30,405
Speaker 6: then they jump, and it's just all about distance. About

413
00:24:30,445 --> 00:24:33,925
Speaker 6: this guy named Gunther Steiner, and it's called the Great

414
00:24:34,045 --> 00:24:37,085
Speaker 6: Ecstasy of wood Carver Steiner and it's just about this

415
00:24:37,165 --> 00:24:40,244
Speaker 6: guy and talk about ecstatic truth. This guy can just

416
00:24:40,525 --> 00:24:43,485
Speaker 6: or the ecstasy right that he captures the guy can

417
00:24:43,565 --> 00:24:48,565
Speaker 6: just soar farther than everybody, And the way Herzog depicts

418
00:24:48,645 --> 00:24:53,725
Speaker 6: that soaring in slow motion, it is something amazing. You

419
00:24:53,805 --> 00:24:57,565
Speaker 6: understand why that word ecstasy is in the title and

420
00:24:58,285 --> 00:25:00,285
Speaker 6: you're watching it and at the end there's there's a

421
00:25:00,405 --> 00:25:05,445
Speaker 6: poem that Herzog reads and it's like about Steiner, and

422
00:25:05,925 --> 00:25:08,885
Speaker 6: you think, is that a real poem? Did Steiner write that?

423
00:25:09,925 --> 00:25:12,405
Speaker 6: Where did that come from? And You're like, Herzog just

424
00:25:12,405 --> 00:25:14,885
Speaker 6: made that up, you know, like none of it it's

425
00:25:15,085 --> 00:25:16,565
Speaker 6: you know, like that doesn't.

426
00:25:16,245 --> 00:25:17,045
Speaker 7: Come from anything.

427
00:25:17,125 --> 00:25:19,245
Speaker 6: Herzog just thought it was poetic and he decided to

428
00:25:19,245 --> 00:25:21,925
Speaker 6: throw it in And I can't. I feel so bad

429
00:25:21,925 --> 00:25:25,005
Speaker 6: because it was just like a month ago. But Steiner

430
00:25:25,045 --> 00:25:27,765
Speaker 6: at one point tells a story about growing up with

431
00:25:28,525 --> 00:25:32,205
Speaker 6: some kind of bird, you know, he had, like a pet,

432
00:25:32,365 --> 00:25:35,045
Speaker 6: and I wish I could remember what it was. And

433
00:25:35,085 --> 00:25:40,005
Speaker 6: the story is so pedestrian in a way, but also bizarre,

434
00:25:40,125 --> 00:25:43,885
Speaker 6: like things like stories and Herzog movies are that, Josh.

435
00:25:43,925 --> 00:25:45,845
Speaker 6: As soon as the movie got over, all I did

436
00:25:45,925 --> 00:25:49,405
Speaker 6: was start googling because I was sure Herzog made that

437
00:25:49,645 --> 00:25:53,565
Speaker 6: up and made Gunther Steiner read it in his film

438
00:25:53,725 --> 00:25:56,365
Speaker 6: because there was no way that was true. That seemed

439
00:25:56,405 --> 00:25:59,165
Speaker 6: like one of those things that Herzog said, Hey, I

440
00:25:59,565 --> 00:26:02,565
Speaker 6: think this, I think this works for my movie. Would

441
00:26:02,605 --> 00:26:04,525
Speaker 6: you say this and recount this like it was part

442
00:26:04,525 --> 00:26:07,805
Speaker 6: of your childhood? As far as I can tell, it's

443
00:26:07,885 --> 00:26:11,765
Speaker 6: real that Steiner really grew up with that pet, But

444
00:26:12,765 --> 00:26:15,125
Speaker 6: who really knows, you know. So all of that is

445
00:26:15,165 --> 00:26:17,445
Speaker 6: to say, I wholeheartedly support your pick.

446
00:26:17,885 --> 00:26:20,485
Speaker 1: Well, I'm so relieved. I thought I thought you might

447
00:26:20,485 --> 00:26:23,965
Speaker 1: throw me out of court, so I'm glad we can proceed.

448
00:26:24,485 --> 00:26:27,445
Speaker 7: No, I'm in. I like it. I like it a lot. Okay.

449
00:26:27,845 --> 00:26:32,285
Speaker 6: My number four unreliable narrator is Tony Wilson. The movie

450
00:26:32,485 --> 00:26:35,885
Speaker 6: is twenty four hour Party People from two thousand and two,

451
00:26:36,685 --> 00:26:40,205
Speaker 6: so right around there one of my favorite cinematic pairings

452
00:26:40,605 --> 00:26:43,605
Speaker 6: Michael Winterbottom and Steve Coogan and what I'm pretty sure

453
00:26:43,685 --> 00:26:48,525
Speaker 6: was their first cinematic pairing, their first collaboration in a

454
00:26:48,565 --> 00:26:51,765
Speaker 6: movie written by Frank Cottrell Boyce some may remember from

455
00:26:52,125 --> 00:26:55,925
Speaker 6: the Danny Boyle movie Millions, among other movies, and this

456
00:26:56,045 --> 00:27:00,245
Speaker 6: is the film that tells the story of that Manchester

457
00:27:00,445 --> 00:27:04,125
Speaker 6: music scene that sprung up, you know, in the wake

458
00:27:04,165 --> 00:27:06,445
Speaker 6: of the sex pistols and his music was changing. In

459
00:27:06,485 --> 00:27:10,245
Speaker 6: England in the late nineteen seventies, Tony Wilson was this

460
00:27:10,365 --> 00:27:15,005
Speaker 6: local TV news reporter who saw the sex pistols and said,

461
00:27:15,805 --> 00:27:18,165
Speaker 6: I want to start a record label. I want to

462
00:27:18,165 --> 00:27:22,045
Speaker 6: promote bands. I want to do something really important, and

463
00:27:22,085 --> 00:27:24,965
Speaker 6: he ended up creating this label called Factory Records and

464
00:27:26,125 --> 00:27:30,485
Speaker 6: starting or being the instigator behind a bunch of new

465
00:27:30,525 --> 00:27:35,725
Speaker 6: bands and this new sound coming into fruition. He's a

466
00:27:35,885 --> 00:27:39,005
Speaker 6: TV personality, as I said, a real life Tony Wilson,

467
00:27:39,045 --> 00:27:43,725
Speaker 6: a real life TV personality. He's obviously ambitious and he

468
00:27:43,845 --> 00:27:47,885
Speaker 6: did as he's looking back Steve Coogan playing Tony Wilson.

469
00:27:48,405 --> 00:27:51,925
Speaker 6: Tony Wilson did make a major mark on popular music

470
00:27:52,005 --> 00:27:54,845
Speaker 6: in Britain in the eighties, primarily And you put all

471
00:27:54,885 --> 00:27:57,485
Speaker 6: of that together, Josh, and of course the person portraying

472
00:27:57,565 --> 00:28:02,445
Speaker 6: him is in the way it's written. It's gonna be

473
00:28:03,325 --> 00:28:05,085
Speaker 6: written in a way and performed in a way to

474
00:28:05,125 --> 00:28:08,285
Speaker 6: push a certain narrative that's a little bit self aggrandizing.

475
00:28:08,645 --> 00:28:11,085
Speaker 6: You know, it's going to favor what makes him look

476
00:28:11,205 --> 00:28:16,165
Speaker 6: good over quote unquote what really happened. And that's easy

477
00:28:16,205 --> 00:28:20,685
Speaker 6: to do when he Coogan as Tony Wilson is literally

478
00:28:20,765 --> 00:28:24,405
Speaker 6: tell the story, not just with narration, but he's breaking

479
00:28:24,445 --> 00:28:27,645
Speaker 6: the fourth wall. He's talking directly to the audience in

480
00:28:27,685 --> 00:28:32,965
Speaker 6: many instances, and throughout winter Bottom and Cougan are constantly

481
00:28:33,045 --> 00:28:36,165
Speaker 6: reminding you too, And this is not a surprise for

482
00:28:36,205 --> 00:28:39,525
Speaker 6: people who know winter Bottom's work, and often his work

483
00:28:39,565 --> 00:28:44,685
Speaker 6: with Kugan. They're reminding you of the mechanics of the story.

484
00:28:44,765 --> 00:28:48,285
Speaker 6: They're reminding you of the fact that it is a story.

485
00:28:48,725 --> 00:28:51,805
Speaker 6: So I think about a scene in this movie where

486
00:28:52,565 --> 00:28:55,845
Speaker 6: Tony recounts meeting Sean and Paul Ryder of the group

487
00:28:56,165 --> 00:29:00,085
Speaker 6: The Happy Mondays on a roof where they're trying to

488
00:29:00,125 --> 00:29:07,005
Speaker 6: poison pigeons, and Cougan's explaining to us right that popular

489
00:29:07,125 --> 00:29:10,445
Speaker 6: music's like a double helix, waves that intertwine and all

490
00:29:10,485 --> 00:29:13,725
Speaker 6: this stuff, and he says, when one musical movement's descendant

491
00:29:13,725 --> 00:29:15,525
Speaker 6: and other one's us send it. And so right now

492
00:29:15,565 --> 00:29:17,725
Speaker 6: we're in kind of a crisscross, a kind of hiatus.

493
00:29:17,765 --> 00:29:19,605
Speaker 6: But the two guys they're going to be on the

494
00:29:19,645 --> 00:29:22,605
Speaker 6: crest of it are these two guys, Paul and Sean Ryder.

495
00:29:23,245 --> 00:29:26,125
Speaker 8: This is a true incident. But like the Hanglining, which

496
00:29:26,125 --> 00:29:28,885
Speaker 8: remember works on two levels. This takes place in nineteen

497
00:29:28,965 --> 00:29:31,845
Speaker 8: eighty when Short and Paul put rock poison into some

498
00:29:31,885 --> 00:29:34,045
Speaker 8: bread and fed it to three thousand pigeons.

499
00:29:34,485 --> 00:29:41,365
Speaker 6: Yeah, here we are in our narrative, this narrative of

500
00:29:41,445 --> 00:29:46,045
Speaker 6: the movie twenty four hour party people, one musical movement's ascendant,

501
00:29:46,365 --> 00:29:49,805
Speaker 6: one's descendant. We're at this crisscross, right, but the next

502
00:29:49,885 --> 00:29:53,485
Speaker 6: wave is coming, he's telling you, Right, it's because of

503
00:29:53,525 --> 00:29:56,445
Speaker 6: these guys that the next wave is coming and they're

504
00:29:56,485 --> 00:29:59,165
Speaker 6: going to be at the crux of it. Okay, that's

505
00:29:59,205 --> 00:30:02,885
Speaker 6: why we're on this roof. There's the storytelling mechanics. Then

506
00:30:03,045 --> 00:30:05,565
Speaker 6: he has to make sure we understand that, oh, this

507
00:30:05,725 --> 00:30:09,045
Speaker 6: is true. You know this really happened. But then it's

508
00:30:09,085 --> 00:30:13,205
Speaker 6: not completely true because you know, no pigeons were harmed

509
00:30:13,245 --> 00:30:15,085
Speaker 6: in the making of this film. He does let us

510
00:30:15,165 --> 00:30:18,325
Speaker 6: know that it's a reconstruction. He tells us the reconstruction

511
00:30:18,645 --> 00:30:21,405
Speaker 6: that no pigeons were harmed. He wants us to be

512
00:30:21,445 --> 00:30:21,805
Speaker 6: sure that.

513
00:30:21,765 --> 00:30:22,525
Speaker 7: We understand that.

514
00:30:22,965 --> 00:30:26,045
Speaker 6: But when he says this is true, like the hang

515
00:30:26,085 --> 00:30:28,685
Speaker 6: gliding incident, it is one of those things where even

516
00:30:28,765 --> 00:30:30,925
Speaker 6: if we're aware of it sort of from the beginning,

517
00:30:30,925 --> 00:30:34,885
Speaker 6: because we understand the mechanism, the mechanics of storytelling. We

518
00:30:34,965 --> 00:30:39,565
Speaker 6: understand the personality of Coogan and Tony Wilson and everything

519
00:30:39,605 --> 00:30:42,725
Speaker 6: that's happening before us. You still can't help but believe

520
00:30:42,845 --> 00:30:45,525
Speaker 6: what you're seeing before you, and that it's a true,

521
00:30:45,605 --> 00:30:49,405
Speaker 6: quote unquote true story. But when he draws attention to

522
00:30:49,445 --> 00:30:53,685
Speaker 6: the fact that, well, this is true and that was true,

523
00:30:53,885 --> 00:30:56,925
Speaker 6: then all of a sudden you're thinking, well, then, which

524
00:30:56,925 --> 00:31:01,445
Speaker 6: ones aren't true? And why are some more true than others?

525
00:31:01,685 --> 00:31:01,845
Speaker 5: Right?

526
00:31:01,925 --> 00:31:08,165
Speaker 6: And so the entire movie, you're in this nebulous zone, right,

527
00:31:08,245 --> 00:31:12,405
Speaker 6: this gray area, wondering what really am I being fed here?

528
00:31:12,485 --> 00:31:15,205
Speaker 6: And doesn't matter at all because at the end of

529
00:31:15,245 --> 00:31:17,925
Speaker 6: the day, it's entertaining as hell, and who cares if

530
00:31:17,965 --> 00:31:21,645
Speaker 6: any of it's factually true. So I do remember watching

531
00:31:21,845 --> 00:31:25,085
Speaker 6: twenty four Hour Party People in a movie theater in Chicago.

532
00:31:25,485 --> 00:31:28,525
Speaker 6: I wasn't living in Chicago yet when this movie came out,

533
00:31:28,965 --> 00:31:31,405
Speaker 6: just before I moved here, but coming to Chicago to

534
00:31:31,485 --> 00:31:33,725
Speaker 6: visit seeing this movie in a theater and it being

535
00:31:33,805 --> 00:31:36,205
Speaker 6: one of the first movies I really remember that that

536
00:31:36,525 --> 00:31:40,965
Speaker 6: challenged me, not in a super challenging way, but was

537
00:31:41,045 --> 00:31:45,165
Speaker 6: doing something semi sophisticated in this way with its narra,

538
00:31:45,365 --> 00:31:48,165
Speaker 6: with its narrative, you know, with that breaking the fourth wall,

539
00:31:48,565 --> 00:31:52,045
Speaker 6: the unreliable narrator, and it being something that I felt

540
00:31:52,085 --> 00:31:54,205
Speaker 6: like was was new to me at the time.

541
00:31:54,645 --> 00:31:58,885
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you called out the Happy Monday's sequence

542
00:31:58,925 --> 00:32:01,205
Speaker 1: because I have fond memories of twenty four Hour Party.

543
00:32:01,205 --> 00:32:03,325
Speaker 1: People have not seen it since that. I was thinking

544
00:32:03,365 --> 00:32:05,485
Speaker 1: as you started talking about it about the bands that

545
00:32:05,485 --> 00:32:08,085
Speaker 1: were covered, It's like, is that was that Happy Mondays?

546
00:32:08,165 --> 00:32:08,325
Speaker 8: Man?

547
00:32:08,885 --> 00:32:12,165
Speaker 1: I miss Happy Mondays? So yeah, a good movie, good movie,

548
00:32:12,205 --> 00:32:15,565
Speaker 1: and yeah, definitely works for this list. All right. My

549
00:32:15,965 --> 00:32:22,125
Speaker 1: number three is let's see here. Oh yeah, this was

550
00:32:22,165 --> 00:32:26,805
Speaker 1: part of our family's COVID coping strategy a few years

551
00:32:26,805 --> 00:32:30,645
Speaker 1: ago now. Thankfully we went on a Joan Crawford marathon

552
00:32:30,925 --> 00:32:35,285
Speaker 1: and one of the highlights was nineteen forty seven's Possessed,

553
00:32:35,365 --> 00:32:40,365
Speaker 1: which I think counts as an unreliable narrator movie for

554
00:32:40,565 --> 00:32:43,005
Speaker 1: reasons I'll get to first. I want to clarify though,

555
00:32:43,005 --> 00:32:46,005
Speaker 1: we also in that marathon did nineteen thirty one's Possessed

556
00:32:46,045 --> 00:32:48,805
Speaker 1: with Joan Crawford. I think this one's a little better.

557
00:32:48,845 --> 00:32:50,885
Speaker 1: So if you're going to choose the Possessed go with

558
00:32:50,965 --> 00:32:55,965
Speaker 1: forty seven here. In this one, Crawford plays Louise Howell,

559
00:32:56,125 --> 00:32:59,205
Speaker 1: who is the unreliable narrator. We basically first meet her

560
00:32:59,325 --> 00:33:02,965
Speaker 1: in this incredible opening sequence where she's just wandering the

561
00:33:02,965 --> 00:33:06,245
Speaker 1: streets of Los Angeles in a daze and mumbling the

562
00:33:06,325 --> 00:33:11,565
Speaker 1: name David. She ends up being hospitalized and begins piecing

563
00:33:11,605 --> 00:33:15,725
Speaker 1: together her past in these flashbacks that involve an engineer

564
00:33:16,165 --> 00:33:18,445
Speaker 1: she was in love with who rejected her, played by

565
00:33:18,565 --> 00:33:21,245
Speaker 1: Van Heflin. If I were in love with anybody else,

566
00:33:21,285 --> 00:33:24,125
Speaker 1: believe me. I tell you there is another woman.

567
00:33:24,165 --> 00:33:24,605
Speaker 3: I know it.

568
00:33:25,405 --> 00:33:28,245
Speaker 1: Otherwise, why should you suddenly decide to go out to Canada.

569
00:33:28,565 --> 00:33:29,645
Speaker 5: I do know about Canada.

570
00:33:29,845 --> 00:33:31,445
Speaker 2: You didn't think i'd find out about that, did you?

571
00:33:31,605 --> 00:33:32,045
Speaker 4: But I did.

572
00:33:32,205 --> 00:33:33,885
Speaker 2: I listened at the door.

573
00:33:34,245 --> 00:33:35,725
Speaker 1: Do you see the things you make me do? All right?

574
00:33:35,725 --> 00:33:37,605
Speaker 8: I'll do them. I'll do anything because I don't care anymore.

575
00:33:38,045 --> 00:33:39,925
Speaker 1: You can't go away without me, David. I won't let you.

576
00:33:40,445 --> 00:33:41,845
Speaker 1: I'll find a way alive.

577
00:33:41,965 --> 00:33:43,125
Speaker 8: I have to, but I'll find a way.

578
00:33:43,965 --> 00:33:50,365
Speaker 1: So that unspools a pretty wild plot of betrayal, potential suicide,

579
00:33:50,525 --> 00:33:53,965
Speaker 1: possible murder, and this is all through the foggy memory

580
00:33:54,045 --> 00:33:58,565
Speaker 1: and even the hallucinations at one point of Louise. So yeah,

581
00:33:58,845 --> 00:34:01,685
Speaker 1: this fits your criteria, Adam. Of like, we know obviously

582
00:34:01,725 --> 00:34:05,485
Speaker 1: from that opening scene this is a struggling woman. How

583
00:34:05,565 --> 00:34:09,605
Speaker 1: much can we believe of her story? Crawford, this will

584
00:34:09,645 --> 00:34:13,165
Speaker 1: not surprise you to hear commits. I don't find that

585
00:34:13,605 --> 00:34:17,645
Speaker 1: this particular performance leans all the way into camp. I

586
00:34:18,005 --> 00:34:20,524
Speaker 1: think the movie'll overall. I mean, this is forty seven,

587
00:34:20,605 --> 00:34:23,085
Speaker 1: so it's not perfect, but I think it deals with

588
00:34:23,125 --> 00:34:28,645
Speaker 1: her mental illness fairly progressively for the time. And Crawford,

589
00:34:28,925 --> 00:34:33,565
Speaker 1: you know, definitely is taking this woman in her predicament seriously.

590
00:34:34,325 --> 00:34:39,485
Speaker 1: The director is Curtis Bernhardt. Not incredibly familiar with Curtis Bernhardt,

591
00:34:39,565 --> 00:34:42,884
Speaker 1: but there are some nice employments of point of view

592
00:34:42,885 --> 00:34:46,125
Speaker 1: shots in the movie, which I especially like for this

593
00:34:46,205 --> 00:34:49,605
Speaker 1: list because they emphasize the unreliable narrator element. The first

594
00:34:49,645 --> 00:34:53,925
Speaker 1: one comes when she's Louise's being hospitalized, and so she's

595
00:34:53,965 --> 00:34:56,765
Speaker 1: wheeled into the hospital on this gurney and we suddenly

596
00:34:56,765 --> 00:34:59,325
Speaker 1: see her from her point of view, like the ceiling

597
00:34:59,405 --> 00:35:03,685
Speaker 1: lamps passing overhead, and so even though we've initially become

598
00:35:03,765 --> 00:35:07,205
Speaker 1: suspicious of her because we've watched her from Afar in

599
00:35:07,285 --> 00:35:11,045
Speaker 1: this daze and we're either you know, nervous for her

600
00:35:11,125 --> 00:35:15,285
Speaker 1: or maybe even scared by her. Here then we're put

601
00:35:15,325 --> 00:35:19,525
Speaker 1: into her body and her panic becomes ours. So it's

602
00:35:19,565 --> 00:35:21,405
Speaker 1: kind of messing with you in that way of what

603
00:35:21,445 --> 00:35:23,645
Speaker 1: should I believe? What should I not believe? And well

604
00:35:23,645 --> 00:35:27,805
Speaker 1: now I'm now I'm actually experiencing this story, so that

605
00:35:27,885 --> 00:35:31,805
Speaker 1: invests us even more. Yeah, I highly recommend Possessed. I

606
00:35:31,845 --> 00:35:34,765
Speaker 1: think of it as the Hitchcock film that Joan Crawford

607
00:35:34,805 --> 00:35:36,445
Speaker 1: never made. So it's a good one.

608
00:35:37,085 --> 00:35:40,845
Speaker 6: Joan Crawford should be. It sounds like it will never be.

609
00:35:41,045 --> 00:35:44,125
Speaker 6: She will never be a marathon subject on this show

610
00:35:44,165 --> 00:35:46,525
Speaker 6: because you did that marathon without me. You did that

611
00:35:46,565 --> 00:35:48,885
Speaker 6: with your other family. Yeah, you did that with your

612
00:35:48,925 --> 00:35:53,885
Speaker 6: actual family. Should have been a marathon topic on this show.

613
00:35:53,965 --> 00:35:57,645
Speaker 6: Because I need to see a lot of Joan Crawford movies,

614
00:35:57,685 --> 00:36:00,285
Speaker 6: and that, unfortunately is one of them. And you know,

615
00:36:00,325 --> 00:36:03,205
Speaker 6: I already wanted to see those films, but now you've

616
00:36:03,205 --> 00:36:05,085
Speaker 6: really sold me on wanting to see Possessed.

617
00:36:05,245 --> 00:36:10,005
Speaker 7: So a good pick, Josh.

618
00:36:10,045 --> 00:36:12,925
Speaker 6: Looking over the slate of movies that are playing or

619
00:36:13,005 --> 00:36:16,565
Speaker 6: coming soon to a Regal Cinema near you. I kind

620
00:36:16,565 --> 00:36:18,844
Speaker 6: of like seeing that. With the Oscars approaching, you can

621
00:36:18,885 --> 00:36:21,245
Speaker 6: still go to the theater and see Marty Supreme, one

622
00:36:21,245 --> 00:36:23,844
Speaker 6: of the Best Picture nominees. If you haven't already seen

623
00:36:24,325 --> 00:36:28,525
Speaker 6: that movie, catch it before it's no longer available on

624
00:36:28,965 --> 00:36:31,565
Speaker 6: the big screen. And of course the movie that we

625
00:36:31,845 --> 00:36:35,045
Speaker 6: will be discussing next week. Look for it in your feed.

626
00:36:35,445 --> 00:36:38,285
Speaker 6: Maggie jillen Hall's The Bride I have to share.

627
00:36:38,405 --> 00:36:38,885
Speaker 7: I love that.

628
00:36:38,925 --> 00:36:42,205
Speaker 6: I just randomly got this video served to me. You

629
00:36:42,245 --> 00:36:44,925
Speaker 6: know that John mullaney story he told on the Oscars

630
00:36:44,965 --> 00:36:49,005
Speaker 6: about reading putting himself on tape for Young Cop. It

631
00:36:49,125 --> 00:36:52,005
Speaker 6: was so memorable as a really funny story. It was

632
00:36:52,085 --> 00:36:56,485
Speaker 6: for this movie, and Jesse Buckley and Maggie Jillenhall got

633
00:36:56,525 --> 00:36:59,125
Speaker 6: asked about it and they were great sports about it,

634
00:36:59,525 --> 00:37:03,085
Speaker 6: and they laughed and said it was really funny. And

635
00:37:03,565 --> 00:37:07,525
Speaker 6: Maggie did point out, Maggie Jillenhall that it's a good role.

636
00:37:07,845 --> 00:37:09,885
Speaker 6: And Lewis can Sell Me is the actor who plays

637
00:37:09,965 --> 00:37:12,365
Speaker 6: Young Cop in the movie, and she ended up giving

638
00:37:12,485 --> 00:37:16,285
Speaker 6: Young Cop a name, I think after John Mulaney told

639
00:37:16,485 --> 00:37:18,685
Speaker 6: that story. But she says it's a good role. It's

640
00:37:18,765 --> 00:37:21,245
Speaker 6: quite a big part, so maybe John mulaney should have

641
00:37:21,245 --> 00:37:23,525
Speaker 6: taken it more seriously so we can see that on

642
00:37:23,565 --> 00:37:27,525
Speaker 6: the big screen, and maybe we'll discuss just how good

643
00:37:27,765 --> 00:37:30,924
Speaker 6: the actor is performing Young Cop, though I think we'll

644
00:37:30,965 --> 00:37:34,245
Speaker 6: be spending most of our time looking at Jesse Buckley

645
00:37:34,285 --> 00:37:37,485
Speaker 6: and Christian Bale and considering their performances. I am very

646
00:37:37,525 --> 00:37:41,565
Speaker 6: excited to see that one. You can see both of

647
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Speaker 6: non alcoholic concessions. So sign up now in the regal

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Speaker 6: use code film Spot twenty six that's film Spot twenty

662
00:38:27,565 --> 00:38:36,805
Speaker 6: six to receive your discu my number three. This is

663
00:38:37,925 --> 00:38:41,125
Speaker 6: the only one of my picks that doesn't come from

664
00:38:41,245 --> 00:38:43,845
Speaker 6: right around the turn of the century. It's from twenty fourteen.

665
00:38:43,925 --> 00:38:47,565
Speaker 6: And here's where things get really fun, because David Fincher

666
00:38:48,325 --> 00:38:52,885
Speaker 6: takes Allian Flynn's Gone Girl Conceit from the book and

667
00:38:52,925 --> 00:38:58,645
Speaker 6: I think really employs it so perfectly. First, we assume

668
00:38:59,045 --> 00:39:01,925
Speaker 6: that this is going to be the story as told

669
00:39:01,965 --> 00:39:06,645
Speaker 6: completely from Nick Dunn's perspective. Ben Affleck, can he be trusted?

670
00:39:06,725 --> 00:39:12,165
Speaker 6: Josh Well? In the opening narration, we hear him talk

671
00:39:12,205 --> 00:39:17,165
Speaker 6: about cracking his wife Amy's lovely skull open.

672
00:39:18,525 --> 00:39:22,685
Speaker 3: When I think of my wife, I always think of

673
00:39:22,725 --> 00:39:29,765
Speaker 3: her head a picture of cracking or lovely skull unspooling

674
00:39:29,805 --> 00:39:32,485
Speaker 3: her brains trying to get answers.

675
00:39:33,405 --> 00:39:35,924
Speaker 6: Though it's not as bad as it sounds, right right,

676
00:39:36,165 --> 00:39:39,205
Speaker 6: I mean he just means he just really wants to

677
00:39:39,285 --> 00:39:42,045
Speaker 6: understand what his wife is really thinking. He just wants

678
00:39:42,085 --> 00:39:44,005
Speaker 6: to get inside her head. I mean we've all had

679
00:39:44,045 --> 00:39:48,325
Speaker 6: the same thought about our wives, right, but sure, something

680
00:39:48,365 --> 00:39:51,765
Speaker 6: about that phrasing and kind of the way that just

681
00:39:51,845 --> 00:39:56,485
Speaker 6: slightly menacing way he says it. You know, it's perfect.

682
00:39:56,525 --> 00:39:59,884
Speaker 6: We're immediately not sure what to think about this guy.

683
00:39:59,885 --> 00:40:02,765
Speaker 6: And of course, as more details unfold, like the fact

684
00:40:02,765 --> 00:40:05,805
Speaker 6: that she's missing, what happened to her? Is he in

685
00:40:05,845 --> 00:40:09,605
Speaker 6: fact responsible for her disappearance? How much can we trust

686
00:40:09,605 --> 00:40:12,725
Speaker 6: what he's telling the police, not just us, the people

687
00:40:12,765 --> 00:40:16,205
Speaker 6: around him, what they think and what he's telling them.

688
00:40:16,685 --> 00:40:21,125
Speaker 6: And then of course it gets really really interesting. We

689
00:40:21,205 --> 00:40:27,485
Speaker 6: learn that Amy's still alive, and that becomes a fact

690
00:40:27,605 --> 00:40:30,884
Speaker 6: that becomes something we're aware of when we get introduced

691
00:40:31,205 --> 00:40:36,685
Speaker 6: to Amy and we get the famous cool girl speech.

692
00:40:36,845 --> 00:40:39,484
Speaker 4: Nick and Amy will be gone. But then we never

693
00:40:39,565 --> 00:40:42,925
Speaker 4: really existed. Nick loved a girl. I was pretending to

694
00:40:42,965 --> 00:40:47,525
Speaker 4: be cool girl. Men always use that, don't they, as

695
00:40:47,605 --> 00:40:52,565
Speaker 4: their defining compliment. She's a cool girl, coog girl is hotly,

696
00:40:52,725 --> 00:40:56,005
Speaker 4: cool girl is gay, cool girl is fun. Cool girl

697
00:40:56,085 --> 00:40:57,404
Speaker 4: never gets angry at her man.

698
00:40:57,845 --> 00:40:59,485
Speaker 7: She only smiles.

699
00:40:59,125 --> 00:41:02,884
Speaker 6: Other than the fact Josh that she faked her death

700
00:41:02,925 --> 00:41:05,085
Speaker 6: and is obviously willing to go to great lengths to

701
00:41:05,125 --> 00:41:09,404
Speaker 6: deceive the entire world, not just her husband. What does

702
00:41:09,445 --> 00:41:13,405
Speaker 6: Amy immediately start telling us in that monologue Nick and

703
00:41:13,445 --> 00:41:16,165
Speaker 6: Amy will be gone. But then we never really existed.

704
00:41:16,645 --> 00:41:19,485
Speaker 6: Nick loved a girl I was pretending to be. We

705
00:41:19,485 --> 00:41:22,005
Speaker 6: were happy, pretending to be other people. We were the

706
00:41:22,045 --> 00:41:25,844
Speaker 6: happiest couple we knew her in her entire marriage, her

707
00:41:25,885 --> 00:41:30,005
Speaker 6: her life really up to this point. And and as

708
00:41:30,045 --> 00:41:32,365
Speaker 6: we you know, quickly learned too from the beginning of

709
00:41:32,405 --> 00:41:34,805
Speaker 6: the film, so has his has been about deception.

710
00:41:35,245 --> 00:41:37,725
Speaker 7: Right, We're in a in that movie.

711
00:41:37,765 --> 00:41:40,965
Speaker 6: We are in a constant state of having to recalibrate

712
00:41:42,445 --> 00:41:45,645
Speaker 6: what we think, what we believe, what we feel, who

713
00:41:45,725 --> 00:41:49,525
Speaker 6: we can trust, what we can trust not trust, and

714
00:41:49,565 --> 00:41:53,245
Speaker 6: certainly what's coming out of the mouths of either Nick

715
00:41:53,805 --> 00:41:58,765
Speaker 6: or Amy. And in some cases in Flashbacks, Fincher understands

716
00:41:58,805 --> 00:42:03,365
Speaker 6: that because we've seen it happen, because he's shown us something,

717
00:42:03,765 --> 00:42:07,364
Speaker 6: it's then impossible, almost impossible for our brains to then

718
00:42:07,485 --> 00:42:11,525
Speaker 6: disassociate it from reality, that that what we saw in

719
00:42:11,565 --> 00:42:15,045
Speaker 6: flashback could in fact be just their version of the

720
00:42:15,045 --> 00:42:19,165
Speaker 6: truth or a complete fabrication. It could be a complete deception.

721
00:42:19,845 --> 00:42:23,845
Speaker 6: And I think I think that movie is so disorienting

722
00:42:23,965 --> 00:42:26,325
Speaker 6: in the best way a movie can be, because Fincher

723
00:42:26,365 --> 00:42:30,165
Speaker 6: does turn it back on us that way, like there

724
00:42:30,165 --> 00:42:34,565
Speaker 6: are things we know that that people within the movie

725
00:42:34,565 --> 00:42:38,525
Speaker 6: world don't know. We're privy to information that they're not.

726
00:42:39,085 --> 00:42:42,285
Speaker 6: And yet with every new revelation within the movie world

727
00:42:42,685 --> 00:42:48,645
Speaker 6: or as characters on television or anyone who's questioning the

728
00:42:48,725 --> 00:42:54,085
Speaker 6: reality or or raising doubt about who did what. As

729
00:42:54,125 --> 00:42:57,285
Speaker 6: those questions get raised, you can't help as a viewer

730
00:42:57,605 --> 00:43:00,165
Speaker 6: start to start to question it yourself. You start to

731
00:43:00,245 --> 00:43:03,285
Speaker 6: question the truth that you think you believe, the things

732
00:43:03,325 --> 00:43:05,485
Speaker 6: that you've been clinging to, what you think you know

733
00:43:05,565 --> 00:43:08,925
Speaker 6: from what you saw. And I think I think that

734
00:43:08,925 --> 00:43:11,845
Speaker 6: that's that line again, that edge that you're you're walking

735
00:43:12,005 --> 00:43:14,245
Speaker 6: that entire time with that movie, and I think that's

736
00:43:14,405 --> 00:43:16,605
Speaker 6: that's one of the things that really elevates Gone Girl.

737
00:43:16,925 --> 00:43:19,045
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Fincher had to get recognition with this

738
00:43:19,165 --> 00:43:22,125
Speaker 1: top five. He's one of those filmmakers and we might

739
00:43:22,165 --> 00:43:25,165
Speaker 1: touch on one or maybe two others who have a

740
00:43:25,285 --> 00:43:29,525
Speaker 1: number of unreliable narrator movies in their filmography. I was

741
00:43:29,725 --> 00:43:33,605
Speaker 1: leaning towards Fight Club. Didn't end up spoiler on my list,

742
00:43:33,645 --> 00:43:36,285
Speaker 1: It's it's probably my number, my number six, But I

743
00:43:36,325 --> 00:43:39,125
Speaker 1: think I think you probably nailed the better one here. Adam,

744
00:43:38,965 --> 00:43:41,685
Speaker 1: I'm just looking up. I was a little I wasn't

745
00:43:41,725 --> 00:43:44,765
Speaker 1: quite as high on Gone Girl as I was Fight Club,

746
00:43:44,805 --> 00:43:47,365
Speaker 1: which is probably why I didn't lean that way. But

747
00:43:47,765 --> 00:43:50,685
Speaker 1: here's the first phrase of my review. I forgot about

748
00:43:50,685 --> 00:43:55,485
Speaker 1: this a viper's nest of unreliable narrators. So apparently I

749
00:43:55,525 --> 00:43:58,005
Speaker 1: should have just, you know, went into my my search

750
00:43:58,085 --> 00:44:01,205
Speaker 1: field and typed in unreliable narrators and see what popped.

751
00:44:01,205 --> 00:44:05,444
Speaker 1: Come on, therefore, Josh to use that tepneque next time.

752
00:44:05,445 --> 00:44:10,405
Speaker 1: But yeah, absolutely a fitting pick there with Gone Girl. Okay,

753
00:44:10,485 --> 00:44:13,285
Speaker 1: at number two, however, and here's where we really need

754
00:44:13,325 --> 00:44:16,005
Speaker 1: to put the spoilers out there, even though it seems ridiculous.

755
00:44:16,485 --> 00:44:19,445
Speaker 1: My number two pick is The Sixth Sense. But Adam,

756
00:44:19,565 --> 00:44:23,045
Speaker 1: I've I've watched The Sixth Sense with you know, teenagers

757
00:44:23,045 --> 00:44:28,245
Speaker 1: who somehow didn't know the reveal. So I'm just gonna say,

758
00:44:28,285 --> 00:44:30,805
Speaker 1: if that's you and you happen to be listening, you

759
00:44:30,925 --> 00:44:32,885
Speaker 1: need to experience the sixth Sons if it's at all

760
00:44:32,925 --> 00:44:37,085
Speaker 1: possible without knowing what goes down. But as we discussed

761
00:44:37,085 --> 00:44:38,725
Speaker 1: when we did our nine from ninety nine review a

762
00:44:38,765 --> 00:44:41,485
Speaker 1: number of years ago, it's not just the twist that

763
00:44:41,645 --> 00:44:45,844
Speaker 1: makes m Night Chamlan's breakout ghost story so incredible. It

764
00:44:45,925 --> 00:44:51,365
Speaker 1: has those performances, which across the board are brilliant Haley Joel, Osmond,

765
00:44:51,365 --> 00:44:55,245
Speaker 1: Bruce Willis, maybe above all Tony Collette. It has good creeps,

766
00:44:55,485 --> 00:45:01,685
Speaker 1: good scares, They're all expertly crafted. But all that being said,

767
00:45:02,365 --> 00:45:05,525
Speaker 1: it's the twist that I think does elevate the Six Sons,

768
00:45:05,605 --> 00:45:09,005
Speaker 1: and for me is what really makes it eligible for

769
00:45:09,085 --> 00:45:13,245
Speaker 1: this list. And this is the fact that here's the spoiler.

770
00:45:13,445 --> 00:45:17,285
Speaker 1: Willis's child psychologist Malcolm Crow is in fact trying to

771
00:45:17,325 --> 00:45:22,085
Speaker 1: help Osmond's traumatized boy from beyond the grave. Now we

772
00:45:22,165 --> 00:45:25,525
Speaker 1: don't know he's a ghost until the end, of course,

773
00:45:25,565 --> 00:45:28,325
Speaker 1: so there's maybe not that ambiguity you are looking for, Adham.

774
00:45:28,845 --> 00:45:31,165
Speaker 1: But I think the brilliance of the twist here is

775
00:45:31,165 --> 00:45:36,645
Speaker 1: that Malcolm doesn't realize it himself until we do. And

776
00:45:36,765 --> 00:45:38,525
Speaker 1: this is when he tries to talk to his wife

777
00:45:38,925 --> 00:45:41,805
Speaker 1: played by Olivia Williams, who's also very good, and discovers

778
00:45:41,805 --> 00:45:44,325
Speaker 1: that he can't because he's dead.

779
00:45:44,805 --> 00:45:46,085
Speaker 6: I see people.

780
00:45:49,005 --> 00:45:50,085
Speaker 7: They don't know they're dead.

781
00:45:55,005 --> 00:46:01,165
Speaker 1: How often do you see that of time? So Malcolm

782
00:46:01,365 --> 00:46:07,405
Speaker 1: is unknowingly unreliable to himself, and for me, that adds

783
00:46:07,405 --> 00:46:10,645
Speaker 1: a certain pathos to the narrative, and to me, that's

784
00:46:10,725 --> 00:46:14,365
Speaker 1: also what gives the sixth sense. It's crowning achievement that

785
00:46:14,485 --> 00:46:17,685
Speaker 1: this movie has everything I talked about as well as

786
00:46:17,725 --> 00:46:21,685
Speaker 1: a powerful emotional punch. So it is clever and it

787
00:46:21,725 --> 00:46:26,285
Speaker 1: is intricate. Right. The unreliability is baked into the actual

788
00:46:26,485 --> 00:46:31,605
Speaker 1: composition of certain scenes, which is also revealed in retrospect.

789
00:46:31,685 --> 00:46:34,485
Speaker 1: But for me, it's also moving as well because just

790
00:46:34,525 --> 00:46:38,405
Speaker 1: because of the very nature of the unreliability of its narrator.

791
00:46:38,885 --> 00:46:42,964
Speaker 6: Yeah, we will come back briefly to the sixth sense

792
00:46:42,965 --> 00:46:45,605
Speaker 6: here when we get to the end of our picks.

793
00:46:45,725 --> 00:46:48,165
Speaker 6: Absolutely understand why it's on your list, and I think

794
00:46:48,205 --> 00:46:51,805
Speaker 6: it has to come up in any conversation of unreliable narrators.

795
00:46:51,885 --> 00:46:53,405
Speaker 6: I'm as big of a fan of that movie as

796
00:46:53,485 --> 00:46:55,965
Speaker 6: you are, going back to that conversation that we had

797
00:46:55,965 --> 00:46:58,445
Speaker 6: about it during that nine from ninety nine series. Before

798
00:46:58,485 --> 00:47:00,205
Speaker 6: I get to my number two pick, I do just

799
00:47:00,285 --> 00:47:04,085
Speaker 6: want to to state, because I finally remembered it, and

800
00:47:04,125 --> 00:47:07,285
Speaker 6: I know everyone's dying to hear it. Wood Carver Steiner,

801
00:47:07,525 --> 00:47:09,845
Speaker 6: it was a pet raven. It was a pet Raven

802
00:47:09,965 --> 00:47:12,245
Speaker 6: and who has a pet Raven? You see why you

803
00:47:12,325 --> 00:47:13,885
Speaker 6: can't believe that's true.

804
00:47:13,885 --> 00:47:18,085
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, but they should be pets who are way

805
00:47:18,125 --> 00:47:21,125
Speaker 1: too smart. I mean, that's all dangerous.

806
00:47:21,085 --> 00:47:21,885
Speaker 7: I know, I know.

807
00:47:22,325 --> 00:47:25,924
Speaker 6: So my number two, okay, my final two picks here,

808
00:47:26,085 --> 00:47:29,884
Speaker 6: I'm gonna call the children of Rashomon. And I say

809
00:47:29,925 --> 00:47:32,685
Speaker 6: that in spirit. I guess all of these movies in

810
00:47:32,725 --> 00:47:35,245
Speaker 6: some way are the children of Rashomon, but especially these

811
00:47:35,245 --> 00:47:38,605
Speaker 6: two picks Josh, in spirit, but also in their own

812
00:47:38,645 --> 00:47:42,885
Speaker 6: distinct ways form. This is another movie, and this is

813
00:47:42,965 --> 00:47:45,605
Speaker 6: nineteen ninety nine, so right around two thousand and again,

814
00:47:45,805 --> 00:47:48,285
Speaker 6: another movie I have only seen once when it came

815
00:47:48,285 --> 00:47:50,645
Speaker 6: out in the theater, and I would love to revisit it.

816
00:47:50,685 --> 00:47:52,645
Speaker 6: I know it's a beloved film by a lot of

817
00:47:52,685 --> 00:47:55,484
Speaker 6: our listeners, rightfully, so I have only seen it that once.

818
00:47:56,245 --> 00:48:01,205
Speaker 6: It's not a direct parallel obviously to Rashomon. But not

819
00:48:01,285 --> 00:48:10,085
Speaker 6: only does Alexander Payne's Election have four narrators, unreliable narrators, Jim, Tracy,

820
00:48:10,285 --> 00:48:15,005
Speaker 6: Tammy and Paul, but they are recounting a single event

821
00:48:15,085 --> 00:48:20,325
Speaker 6: in their collective pass that whole election mess. As Matthew

822
00:48:20,325 --> 00:48:24,165
Speaker 6: Broderick's Jim puts it at the beginning. Like Gone Girl.

823
00:48:24,445 --> 00:48:28,525
Speaker 6: This was a book construct that drew Alexander Payne and

824
00:48:28,645 --> 00:48:32,125
Speaker 6: Jim Taylor, the co writer to the project. The Tom

825
00:48:32,125 --> 00:48:35,045
Speaker 6: Pratta book, which I haven't read but I know it,

826
00:48:35,085 --> 00:48:39,285
Speaker 6: gave each chapter over to a different character. It's all

827
00:48:39,365 --> 00:48:43,725
Speaker 6: first person, different chapters, different characters, so they get to

828
00:48:43,805 --> 00:48:49,365
Speaker 6: tell their own version of events and beyond recounting details

829
00:48:49,405 --> 00:48:52,245
Speaker 6: of what happened as they remember it. The voice over

830
00:48:52,405 --> 00:48:56,165
Speaker 6: here in Election, it's so good. It essentially functions to

831
00:48:56,245 --> 00:48:59,085
Speaker 6: reveal what I think the commoner and we're going to

832
00:48:59,125 --> 00:49:01,845
Speaker 6: get to Rashomon, but essentially what the commoner in Rachoman

833
00:49:01,965 --> 00:49:04,885
Speaker 6: says most of the time, we can't even be honest

834
00:49:04,885 --> 00:49:09,844
Speaker 6: with ourselves. Whatever these characters claim in voiceover, we as

835
00:49:09,885 --> 00:49:14,925
Speaker 6: the viewer figure out pretty quickly that the opposite must

836
00:49:14,925 --> 00:49:19,924
Speaker 6: in fact be true. Like take when Jim is at

837
00:49:19,925 --> 00:49:25,365
Speaker 6: dinner with his wife it has to be what is

838
00:49:25,485 --> 00:49:29,364
Speaker 6: yet another silent dinner where they're just looking down at

839
00:49:29,365 --> 00:49:32,805
Speaker 6: their plates across from each other, and the voiceover says,

840
00:49:33,605 --> 00:49:36,965
Speaker 6: thank God for Diane. She was my best friend, my

841
00:49:37,125 --> 00:49:39,805
Speaker 6: source of love and strength. Oh sure we had our

842
00:49:39,805 --> 00:49:42,805
Speaker 6: share of bumpy times, but we'd always seen them through

843
00:49:43,045 --> 00:49:47,445
Speaker 6: after years of marriage, we were closer than ever. There's

844
00:49:47,605 --> 00:49:51,205
Speaker 6: no way that's true based on what we're seeing, that clash,

845
00:49:51,285 --> 00:49:54,844
Speaker 6: that ironic clash of the words to the visual, what

846
00:49:54,845 --> 00:49:56,965
Speaker 6: we're actually seeing play out in terms of the action

847
00:49:57,245 --> 00:50:01,885
Speaker 6: of their marriage. It's the expression of the fantasy version

848
00:50:01,925 --> 00:50:04,125
Speaker 6: of his life. Or maybe Josh is not even the

849
00:50:04,125 --> 00:50:07,645
Speaker 6: fantasy version of his life. It's just it's just the

850
00:50:07,765 --> 00:50:11,085
Speaker 6: version of his life that he has to believe in

851
00:50:11,205 --> 00:50:16,245
Speaker 6: order to get through the day. And what's funny is

852
00:50:16,285 --> 00:50:21,045
Speaker 6: he says she's his source of love and strength, and

853
00:50:21,285 --> 00:50:25,365
Speaker 6: so even just beyond that clash that's clearly there, he says,

854
00:50:26,245 --> 00:50:28,924
Speaker 6: you know, my source of love and strength. But when

855
00:50:28,965 --> 00:50:33,965
Speaker 6: she actually says to him, is anything wrong, he says, no, no,

856
00:50:34,565 --> 00:50:38,365
Speaker 6: just you know school, Well, if if she was actually

857
00:50:38,445 --> 00:50:41,045
Speaker 6: this source that you could confide in who helped you

858
00:50:41,085 --> 00:50:44,485
Speaker 6: through your problems, then why wouldn't you share what was

859
00:50:44,485 --> 00:50:46,925
Speaker 6: troubling you and maybe she'd help you. But of course

860
00:50:47,005 --> 00:50:50,525
Speaker 6: he doesn't do that, So there's another layer of that irony.

861
00:50:50,725 --> 00:50:52,805
Speaker 6: But it isn't just Jim, of course, it's all the

862
00:50:52,845 --> 00:50:57,205
Speaker 6: other characters. I mean, there's a YouTube clip that's labeled

863
00:50:57,645 --> 00:50:59,365
Speaker 6: Tracy Flick isn't upset?

864
00:50:59,725 --> 00:51:00,565
Speaker 7: Who put you up to this?

865
00:51:01,485 --> 00:51:03,485
Speaker 6: What do you mean you just woke up this morning

866
00:51:03,725 --> 00:51:05,565
Speaker 6: and suddenly decided to run for president?

867
00:51:06,085 --> 00:51:08,685
Speaker 1: No? No, I just thought that.

868
00:51:08,845 --> 00:51:09,525
Speaker 3: Uh what.

869
00:51:10,245 --> 00:51:15,005
Speaker 6: It starts with her haranguing Chris Kleins Paul right, so

870
00:51:15,485 --> 00:51:18,525
Speaker 6: right there you get the irony, but it ends, or

871
00:51:18,565 --> 00:51:20,765
Speaker 6: the voiceover begins what they're saying. You might think it

872
00:51:20,845 --> 00:51:23,285
Speaker 6: up me that Paul Metzler had decided to run against me,

873
00:51:23,365 --> 00:51:25,005
Speaker 6: but nothing could be further from the truth.

874
00:51:25,245 --> 00:51:26,685
Speaker 7: He was no competition for me.

875
00:51:26,805 --> 00:51:29,925
Speaker 6: It was like apples and oranges again, though this immediately

876
00:51:29,965 --> 00:51:34,965
Speaker 6: follows her haranguing him. You know, she's just just yelled

877
00:51:34,965 --> 00:51:36,885
Speaker 6: at him in front of everyone there in the gym

878
00:51:36,925 --> 00:51:39,285
Speaker 6: because he's going to run against her. So there we

879
00:51:39,365 --> 00:51:43,645
Speaker 6: have that clash once again. But back to Jim because

880
00:51:43,645 --> 00:51:46,725
Speaker 6: he is kind of, you know, the movie's main punching bag.

881
00:51:47,445 --> 00:51:51,325
Speaker 6: Just like Raschoman. This movie does eventually bring us sort

882
00:51:51,325 --> 00:51:53,045
Speaker 6: of out of this time warp or out of this

883
00:51:53,645 --> 00:51:58,165
Speaker 6: limbo into the present day. You know, the narration becomes

884
00:51:58,245 --> 00:52:02,285
Speaker 6: present tense. We see and hear what everyone is up

885
00:52:02,325 --> 00:52:07,045
Speaker 6: to now, because in theory, everyone has moved on everyone's

886
00:52:07,085 --> 00:52:09,925
Speaker 6: moved on with their lives and they've improved their lives, right,

887
00:52:10,005 --> 00:52:15,685
Speaker 6: they've gotten past the whole messiness of that. But we

888
00:52:15,725 --> 00:52:18,685
Speaker 6: see that that's not really the case. And in particular

889
00:52:18,725 --> 00:52:21,605
Speaker 6: with Jim, he says, you might wonder if I ever

890
00:52:22,165 --> 00:52:25,485
Speaker 6: if I ever saw Tracy Flick again. And he's he's

891
00:52:25,805 --> 00:52:30,925
Speaker 6: at a museum educator's conference in DC, right, and he randomly,

892
00:52:31,565 --> 00:52:35,645
Speaker 6: he randomly sees her. She's working for a congressman. She's

893
00:52:35,685 --> 00:52:40,645
Speaker 6: getting into a limo, and the voiceover again Josh where

894
00:52:40,685 --> 00:52:43,125
Speaker 6: he's like, he's talking about how his impulse was to

895
00:52:43,205 --> 00:52:46,645
Speaker 6: run over there and pound on her window, and he

896
00:52:46,685 --> 00:52:50,085
Speaker 6: wanted to confront her about lying and cheating. But instead

897
00:52:50,645 --> 00:52:53,885
Speaker 6: I just stood there and I realized I wasn't angry anymore.

898
00:52:54,205 --> 00:52:56,285
Speaker 6: I just felt sorry for her. And he starts, he

899
00:52:56,325 --> 00:53:00,725
Speaker 6: starts trying to convince us, the audience, the imaginary audience

900
00:53:00,765 --> 00:53:04,245
Speaker 6: that he's talking to Slash himself right about his new

901
00:53:04,285 --> 00:53:07,685
Speaker 6: life and all the exciting things he's doing, and how

902
00:53:07,845 --> 00:53:11,645
Speaker 6: her life must really be pathetic, you know. And that's

903
00:53:11,685 --> 00:53:14,285
Speaker 6: what's so funny is, of course he's not really angry,

904
00:53:14,365 --> 00:53:17,165
Speaker 6: just like Tracy Flick wasn't really angry, and yet what

905
00:53:17,165 --> 00:53:20,205
Speaker 6: do we see him do throw his drink at the limo,

906
00:53:20,685 --> 00:53:25,605
Speaker 6: you know, because he's actually still crushed by all of

907
00:53:25,645 --> 00:53:30,285
Speaker 6: this and just overcome with hostility towards her. So that

908
00:53:30,325 --> 00:53:33,805
Speaker 6: irony and the way the voiceovers are deployed in Election

909
00:53:34,205 --> 00:53:38,645
Speaker 6: is I mean, you obviously you can't imagine Election without it.

910
00:53:38,725 --> 00:53:41,005
Speaker 6: I mean, it's so essential to that film and the

911
00:53:41,045 --> 00:53:42,325
Speaker 6: success of that movie.

912
00:53:42,685 --> 00:53:45,925
Speaker 1: Love the Rachaman parallels. I'd never thought of that before,

913
00:53:46,685 --> 00:53:49,125
Speaker 1: but yeah, they're absolutely there. And this is a good

914
00:53:49,205 --> 00:53:52,205
Speaker 1: case too, maybe because we've framed this as the movies

915
00:53:52,245 --> 00:53:55,045
Speaker 1: and not necessarily the characters, but to give credit to

916
00:53:55,085 --> 00:53:58,085
Speaker 1: the performances that are needed for a movie like this.

917
00:53:58,325 --> 00:54:02,045
Speaker 1: I mean, how good are Broaderick and Witherspoon is so

918
00:54:02,125 --> 00:54:05,045
Speaker 1: good in these parts and hitting all those levels that

919
00:54:05,085 --> 00:54:08,485
Speaker 1: you've been describing having to perform that sort of self

920
00:54:08,525 --> 00:54:13,725
Speaker 1: deception as well as they do. Man nineteen ninety nine,

921
00:54:13,805 --> 00:54:16,365
Speaker 1: I don't think, I know, we probably considered this in

922
00:54:16,405 --> 00:54:18,765
Speaker 1: the mix for our nine from ninety nine series dam

923
00:54:18,805 --> 00:54:20,925
Speaker 1: and we just felt like there were others we had

924
00:54:21,085 --> 00:54:25,005
Speaker 1: to get to before it. What a great film that

925
00:54:25,085 --> 00:54:26,565
Speaker 1: we would have been able to get to, What an

926
00:54:26,565 --> 00:54:32,245
Speaker 1: incredible year. All right, we are at number one. Okay, well,

927
00:54:32,925 --> 00:54:37,125
Speaker 1: almost every Christopher Nolan film could be considered for this list.

928
00:54:37,165 --> 00:54:40,245
Speaker 1: I feel like, I mean, certainly the prestige, certainly, inception.

929
00:54:40,805 --> 00:54:42,965
Speaker 1: I'm going to guess tenant, but I had no idea

930
00:54:42,965 --> 00:54:45,445
Speaker 1: what's going on, So I'm just going to say probably.

931
00:54:46,285 --> 00:54:51,645
Speaker 1: I think when you consider the very notion of unreliability,

932
00:54:51,685 --> 00:54:55,605
Speaker 1: you're inherently dealing with things. You're dealing with complication, you're

933
00:54:55,645 --> 00:55:02,205
Speaker 1: dealing with artifice, you're dealing with deception. Unreliability also creates,

934
00:55:02,365 --> 00:55:05,405
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, a multiverse, and Nolan makes

935
00:55:05,485 --> 00:55:10,485
Speaker 1: movie multiverses, not non Marvel movie multiverses, but either literally

936
00:55:10,525 --> 00:55:13,085
Speaker 1: in some cases, or just in the way your mind

937
00:55:13,165 --> 00:55:16,125
Speaker 1: is required to function to keep up with his films.

938
00:55:17,125 --> 00:55:20,205
Speaker 1: So I have a Nolan film at number one, and

939
00:55:20,725 --> 00:55:25,765
Speaker 1: it is is Memento. Memento, where Guy Pierce plays Leonard Shelby,

940
00:55:26,605 --> 00:55:30,125
Speaker 1: a man who has short term memory loss. While trying

941
00:55:30,165 --> 00:55:33,565
Speaker 1: to solve his wife's murder, He's basically relying on a

942
00:55:33,565 --> 00:55:38,885
Speaker 1: polaroid and his own tattoos as clues. Here again, Adam,

943
00:55:38,925 --> 00:55:42,645
Speaker 1: the unreliability baked into the movies very form. Think about

944
00:55:42,685 --> 00:55:47,045
Speaker 1: that Polaroid, the brilliant opening shot where it fades out

945
00:55:47,245 --> 00:55:51,165
Speaker 1: rather than in as a Polaroid should, and really the

946
00:55:51,285 --> 00:55:54,285
Speaker 1: editing throughout this movie Nolan here working with Dodie Dorn.

947
00:55:54,765 --> 00:55:58,045
Speaker 1: There is that flick of a shot, just an instance

948
00:55:58,165 --> 00:56:01,205
Speaker 1: where we see Leonard getting into the car of Sammy

949
00:56:01,285 --> 00:56:05,605
Speaker 1: Jenkis and what that means and pretends for the levels

950
00:56:05,645 --> 00:56:09,404
Speaker 1: of unreliability at play. I was thinking about this as

951
00:56:09,405 --> 00:56:12,525
Speaker 1: I was putting together my list too, and I was

952
00:56:12,565 --> 00:56:17,485
Speaker 1: thinking about Leonard in comparison to Malcolm in the sixth sense,

953
00:56:17,765 --> 00:56:21,405
Speaker 1: and I thought, man, there are some fascinating levels and

954
00:56:21,485 --> 00:56:25,245
Speaker 1: comparisons at play here because they're both They're both unreliable

955
00:56:25,285 --> 00:56:29,325
Speaker 1: to the audience at different phases you know of their films,

956
00:56:29,925 --> 00:56:35,005
Speaker 1: Leonard obviously earlier than Malcolm, but they're both unreliable. Unlike Malcolm, though,

957
00:56:35,085 --> 00:56:40,085
Speaker 1: Leonard is knowingly unreliable to himself. That's what the tattoos

958
00:56:40,085 --> 00:56:43,805
Speaker 1: are about. But this is a Christopher Nolan movie, so

959
00:56:43,885 --> 00:56:46,245
Speaker 1: it gets even more complicated with the ending and we

960
00:56:46,325 --> 00:56:50,765
Speaker 1: learn that Leonard is also at the same time unknowingly

961
00:56:51,645 --> 00:56:55,605
Speaker 1: unreliable to himself. And I'm not even gonna get into

962
00:56:55,645 --> 00:56:58,605
Speaker 1: how or why we'll just leave that there. But I

963
00:56:58,685 --> 00:57:01,125
Speaker 1: do think it was that level of sophistication when I

964
00:57:01,165 --> 00:57:04,165
Speaker 1: started shaking things out here where I was like, Okay,

965
00:57:04,405 --> 00:57:07,365
Speaker 1: this is not only on theme, this not only fits,

966
00:57:07,405 --> 00:57:11,485
Speaker 1: but it's it's got to be number one.

967
00:57:11,605 --> 00:57:14,205
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I'm just laughing because as you say that,

968
00:57:14,365 --> 00:57:17,165
Speaker 6: I know what you mean, Like I wanted to contradict you,

969
00:57:17,245 --> 00:57:20,485
Speaker 6: but it's actually this is the.

970
00:57:19,405 --> 00:57:22,165
Speaker 7: The layer that you're speaking to.

971
00:57:22,445 --> 00:57:26,605
Speaker 6: It's it's unknowingly because it's like knowingly unknowingly you know.

972
00:57:26,645 --> 00:57:29,925
Speaker 6: That's the beauty of this film, right, yep, And that's

973
00:57:29,925 --> 00:57:32,965
Speaker 6: why it's at number one for me. Deception self and

974
00:57:33,005 --> 00:57:37,165
Speaker 6: otherwise are at the core of everything that Nolan does.

975
00:57:37,405 --> 00:57:39,965
Speaker 6: And I'm not denying that this film has a twist,

976
00:57:40,365 --> 00:57:43,445
Speaker 6: but unlike The Sixth Sense or some other movies that

977
00:57:43,485 --> 00:57:45,885
Speaker 6: I'm gonna mention in a minute, you said it, the

978
00:57:45,965 --> 00:57:49,205
Speaker 6: unreliability is baked into the form from the beginning. I

979
00:57:49,325 --> 00:57:54,285
Speaker 6: never believed Leonard or felt like I could believe him

980
00:57:53,485 --> 00:57:57,805
Speaker 6: from the outset, and that's the essential criterion for me.

981
00:57:57,925 --> 00:58:00,605
Speaker 6: That's why it qualifies. And you even get a great

982
00:58:01,165 --> 00:58:05,205
Speaker 6: you get a great joke out of the narration and

983
00:58:05,245 --> 00:58:08,685
Speaker 6: a great joke out of the unreliability of the narration,

984
00:58:08,845 --> 00:58:11,605
Speaker 6: out of the form, maybe the only real comedic moment

985
00:58:11,645 --> 00:58:14,085
Speaker 6: in the entire movie. And I remember seeing this movie

986
00:58:14,085 --> 00:58:19,845
Speaker 6: in the theater and everybody laughing at it, and rewatching

987
00:58:19,885 --> 00:58:22,405
Speaker 6: this scene and it's still funny. Josh, It's still funny

988
00:58:22,485 --> 00:58:26,285
Speaker 6: even though I know it's coming. When when the scene

989
00:58:26,285 --> 00:58:29,085
Speaker 6: begins and Leonard's running.

990
00:58:29,205 --> 00:58:30,525
Speaker 7: Okay, so what am I doing?

991
00:58:33,165 --> 00:58:40,085
Speaker 4: Oh, I'm chasing this guy, don't He's chasing.

992
00:58:39,885 --> 00:58:43,405
Speaker 6: Me right as the gun then fires it him. The

993
00:58:43,405 --> 00:58:46,045
Speaker 6: guy fires a gun at him, So that's really funny.

994
00:58:46,325 --> 00:58:51,045
Speaker 6: It's it's also though, a perfect microcosm for the discombobulated

995
00:58:51,125 --> 00:58:55,725
Speaker 6: state that Leonard and the audience start every single scene.

996
00:58:56,005 --> 00:58:59,205
Speaker 6: But I think I think thematically too. You can put

997
00:58:59,205 --> 00:59:03,765
Speaker 6: yourself in those shoes and wonder do you automatically assume

998
00:59:03,805 --> 00:59:06,605
Speaker 6: that you're the good guy chasing down the bad guy.

999
00:59:07,285 --> 00:59:10,245
Speaker 6: That's his first instinct, or maybe you know, you you

1000
00:59:10,285 --> 00:59:13,285
Speaker 6: imagine that you're in a narrative. You might even see

1001
00:59:13,325 --> 00:59:16,165
Speaker 6: yourself like you're in a noir, which he is, but

1002
00:59:16,445 --> 00:59:18,525
Speaker 6: you know he doesn't know that, but you might imagine

1003
00:59:18,565 --> 00:59:21,565
Speaker 6: yourself like that, right, So that's the instinct or maybe

1004
00:59:21,605 --> 00:59:25,325
Speaker 6: he's the bad guy getting chased by a good guy.

1005
00:59:25,445 --> 00:59:28,885
Speaker 6: In either case, he's the honorable one, right, except all

1006
00:59:28,925 --> 00:59:31,605
Speaker 6: of us would think, no, there's a there's a bad

1007
00:59:31,605 --> 00:59:34,565
Speaker 6: guy who's who's chasing me for for some reason, you know,

1008
00:59:34,725 --> 00:59:35,725
Speaker 6: or or whatever it is.

1009
00:59:35,925 --> 00:59:38,805
Speaker 7: So let me let me restate.

1010
00:59:38,445 --> 00:59:40,645
Speaker 6: That, right, he's he could be the bad guy getting

1011
00:59:40,685 --> 00:59:42,645
Speaker 6: chased by a good guy. But the way he thinks

1012
00:59:42,885 --> 00:59:45,605
Speaker 6: about it or may and the way we would is that, no,

1013
00:59:46,365 --> 00:59:49,045
Speaker 6: there's a bad guy chasing us. Right, no matter how

1014
00:59:49,085 --> 00:59:51,645
Speaker 6: you look at it, we're always going to be good

1015
00:59:51,805 --> 00:59:54,645
Speaker 6: in that scenario. And that's that's at the core of

1016
00:59:55,005 --> 00:59:58,045
Speaker 6: the film. And I'm going to tie it back to Rashamon,

1017
00:59:58,165 --> 01:00:01,125
Speaker 6: I said the Children of Rashaman, the movie that I

1018
01:00:01,245 --> 01:00:04,285
Speaker 6: think here again, the form is distinct, but I don't

1019
01:00:04,285 --> 01:00:12,445
Speaker 6: know that any movie more directly expresses what Rashamn expresses

1020
01:00:13,605 --> 01:00:17,685
Speaker 6: for eighty five minutes of its run time, let's put

1021
01:00:17,685 --> 01:00:19,845
Speaker 6: it that way. Maybe not eighty eight minutes of its

1022
01:00:19,925 --> 01:00:22,845
Speaker 6: run time, Josh, but five minutes of runtime. I don't

1023
01:00:22,845 --> 01:00:28,885
Speaker 6: know that any movie expresses it more cynically, more more

1024
01:00:28,925 --> 01:00:35,525
Speaker 6: explicitly than Memento. I think it's the perfect modern distillation

1025
01:00:36,445 --> 01:00:41,605
Speaker 6: of raw Choman, taking the form in a new, completely

1026
01:00:41,605 --> 01:00:46,045
Speaker 6: original way, a completely fractured way. But it is expressing

1027
01:00:47,405 --> 01:00:51,125
Speaker 6: the fundamental idea of raw Choman. And I'm going to

1028
01:00:51,205 --> 01:00:55,645
Speaker 6: quote the commoner yet again. Tell me this line isn't

1029
01:00:55,645 --> 01:00:58,325
Speaker 6: something you think is in Memento, And in fact a

1030
01:00:58,405 --> 01:01:00,805
Speaker 6: version of it is in Memento. But the commoner in

1031
01:01:00,885 --> 01:01:04,605
Speaker 6: Rachoman says it. We all want to forget something, so

1032
01:01:04,685 --> 01:01:08,845
Speaker 6: we tell stories. It's easier that way. That's Memento.

1033
01:01:09,405 --> 01:01:12,605
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that. You said fracturing. It is really

1034
01:01:13,645 --> 01:01:17,005
Speaker 1: a fracturing of Memento, which is in some ways classically

1035
01:01:17,285 --> 01:01:20,925
Speaker 1: we might get into this, but classically structured. As inventive

1036
01:01:21,405 --> 01:01:23,365
Speaker 1: as it is in terms of perspective and that sort

1037
01:01:23,405 --> 01:01:26,325
Speaker 1: of thing, it's fairly classically structured. We follow, you know,

1038
01:01:27,205 --> 01:01:28,885
Speaker 1: point A to B, then we go back to point A,

1039
01:01:29,205 --> 01:01:30,925
Speaker 1: and then we take it to ce. Then we go

1040
01:01:30,965 --> 01:01:32,365
Speaker 1: back to point A and then we take you know,

1041
01:01:32,725 --> 01:01:36,045
Speaker 1: and whereas Memento is just like glass, it takes and

1042
01:01:36,085 --> 01:01:38,325
Speaker 1: just breaks it into glass shards of glass.

1043
01:01:38,685 --> 01:01:39,645
Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly.

1044
01:01:40,285 --> 01:01:46,645
Speaker 6: Well, those are our top five unreliable narrators. Josh, do

1045
01:01:46,725 --> 01:01:49,925
Speaker 6: you have some additional films you would like to mention.

1046
01:01:50,165 --> 01:01:53,005
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did a fight Club at number six, though

1047
01:01:53,125 --> 01:01:55,325
Speaker 1: I think probably, as I said, gone girl, you had

1048
01:01:55,325 --> 01:02:00,885
Speaker 1: the right Fincher choice. Usual suspects again kind of around

1049
01:02:00,885 --> 01:02:03,565
Speaker 1: that era, maybe a little bit earlier. I forget exactly

1050
01:02:03,565 --> 01:02:10,005
Speaker 1: what year, but I considered I you mentioned Scorsese already,

1051
01:02:10,085 --> 01:02:14,405
Speaker 1: but yes, Goodfellas Taxi Driver. Shutter Island I think falls

1052
01:02:14,445 --> 01:02:18,245
Speaker 1: into this category, maybe even more classically so in terms

1053
01:02:18,245 --> 01:02:21,845
Speaker 1: of the unreliable narrator. But one I really like Shutter Island.

1054
01:02:22,285 --> 01:02:24,165
Speaker 1: Other ones I gave a passing thought too, but just

1055
01:02:24,205 --> 01:02:27,005
Speaker 1: couldn't hold up to these must haves. But Trainspotting, which

1056
01:02:27,045 --> 01:02:30,925
Speaker 1: we you know, recently discussed in a way we could

1057
01:02:31,005 --> 01:02:35,645
Speaker 1: question our main narrator there and his reliability Blade Runner,

1058
01:02:36,165 --> 01:02:40,405
Speaker 1: Big Fish, the Tim Burton film, and The Fall, which

1059
01:02:40,645 --> 01:02:45,485
Speaker 1: is a Tarsum Singh film that has an unreliable narrator

1060
01:02:45,645 --> 01:02:48,845
Speaker 1: in addition to its lush visuals. Those were the ones

1061
01:02:48,885 --> 01:02:49,525
Speaker 1: I considered.

1062
01:02:50,005 --> 01:02:50,245
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1063
01:02:50,285 --> 01:02:53,485
Speaker 6: The four big honorable mentions for me are the four

1064
01:02:53,725 --> 01:02:57,685
Speaker 6: Big Twist movies, and I truly do think they are

1065
01:02:58,645 --> 01:03:02,525
Speaker 6: among the best unreliable narrator movies because of the way

1066
01:03:02,605 --> 01:03:04,685
Speaker 6: they do pull the rug out from under you you

1067
01:03:04,725 --> 01:03:08,645
Speaker 6: mentioned it, the sixth sense, the usual Suspects, Fight Club,

1068
01:03:09,285 --> 01:03:12,085
Speaker 6: and I would put ahead of all of those my

1069
01:03:12,245 --> 01:03:18,645
Speaker 6: beloved Atonement directed by Joe Wright, three different Brian's at

1070
01:03:18,645 --> 01:03:22,245
Speaker 6: three different ages, and the impact, especially because I didn't

1071
01:03:22,245 --> 01:03:26,005
Speaker 6: know it was coming of the reveal of that, of

1072
01:03:26,045 --> 01:03:29,645
Speaker 6: the ending, and the construct that I didn't know was

1073
01:03:29,645 --> 01:03:32,885
Speaker 6: the construct. Yeah, Atonement would be in the mix for me.

1074
01:03:32,925 --> 01:03:36,845
Speaker 6: It would be really my number one unreliable narrator if

1075
01:03:36,845 --> 01:03:39,605
Speaker 6: I was counting twists in that way, and I could

1076
01:03:39,685 --> 01:03:41,885
Speaker 6: go back and try to retrofit it and say, am

1077
01:03:41,965 --> 01:03:43,685
Speaker 6: I questioning Briany throughout?

1078
01:03:43,765 --> 01:03:46,165
Speaker 7: Maybe? But I wasn't. That's the key.

1079
01:03:46,285 --> 01:03:48,885
Speaker 6: I wasn't the way I was with these other characters

1080
01:03:49,165 --> 01:03:52,245
Speaker 6: when I watched these films. Another interesting one to think

1081
01:03:52,285 --> 01:03:55,245
Speaker 6: about in this Both of these fall more into the

1082
01:03:55,285 --> 01:04:00,925
Speaker 6: category of Apocalypse Now Taxi driver what I was referencing earlier,

1083
01:04:01,725 --> 01:04:04,845
Speaker 6: a clockwork orange might be one that fits right where

1084
01:04:04,885 --> 01:04:09,125
Speaker 6: if you think about his perspective, his psyche, do you

1085
01:04:09,205 --> 01:04:11,965
Speaker 6: want to believe do you want to believe that character?

1086
01:04:12,325 --> 01:04:16,445
Speaker 7: Can you believe Alex? How mushy is his brain?

1087
01:04:17,005 --> 01:04:17,205
Speaker 3: You know?

1088
01:04:17,325 --> 01:04:21,485
Speaker 6: At that point it's it's a fair question with him,

1089
01:04:21,685 --> 01:04:23,805
Speaker 6: and I even thought it was interesting. Josh, I'd never

1090
01:04:23,885 --> 01:04:28,605
Speaker 6: thought about this film in this way, and I obviously

1091
01:04:28,645 --> 01:04:31,685
Speaker 6: didn't totally buy it because I didn't put it on

1092
01:04:31,685 --> 01:04:33,205
Speaker 6: my list, despite the fact that it's one of my

1093
01:04:33,245 --> 01:04:35,925
Speaker 6: all time favorite movies, and I'm not even sure I'm

1094
01:04:35,925 --> 01:04:38,565
Speaker 6: including it truly as an honorable mention. I do want

1095
01:04:38,605 --> 01:04:41,005
Speaker 6: to at least mention it because I think it's an

1096
01:04:41,005 --> 01:04:44,685
Speaker 6: interesting question. I saw on at least one list this

1097
01:04:44,805 --> 01:04:48,845
Speaker 6: movie presented as an unreliable narrator movie, and that was

1098
01:04:48,885 --> 01:04:56,525
Speaker 6: Amadaeus and how much we should trust Sallyari's version of events.

1099
01:04:56,805 --> 01:05:01,725
Speaker 6: I think the argument was more though, again like like

1100
01:05:01,805 --> 01:05:09,605
Speaker 6: Apocalypse now, you know, where he's clearly a little bit deranged, unsettled,

1101
01:05:09,885 --> 01:05:12,325
Speaker 6: you know, can we fully believe him?

1102
01:05:12,405 --> 01:05:14,165
Speaker 7: Should we believe him? That kind of thing.

1103
01:05:14,205 --> 01:05:18,605
Speaker 6: But my experience watching the movie isn't one where as

1104
01:05:18,645 --> 01:05:21,485
Speaker 6: I said, I'm actively engaged in that question anyway.

1105
01:05:21,685 --> 01:05:23,805
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I like it. I think you could make

1106
01:05:23,885 --> 01:05:29,085
Speaker 1: the case for it. You know, it's skewed, but I

1107
01:05:29,085 --> 01:05:32,445
Speaker 1: guess it's a matter of the degree and whether you're

1108
01:05:32,485 --> 01:05:37,365
Speaker 1: getting completely misrepresentation of these actual events or it's just

1109
01:05:37,725 --> 01:05:40,125
Speaker 1: or if they're just bitter versions right.

1110
01:05:40,085 --> 01:05:44,485
Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, again, those are our top five unreliable narrators.

1111
01:05:44,765 --> 01:05:47,165
Speaker 6: We would love to hear your picks or any other

1112
01:05:47,205 --> 01:05:50,085
Speaker 6: thoughts about the show. You can email us feedback at

1113
01:05:50,085 --> 01:05:52,565
Speaker 6: film spotting dot net and you can find all of

1114
01:05:52,605 --> 01:05:56,045
Speaker 6: our picks and see some clips that support our choices,

1115
01:05:56,325 --> 01:06:01,125
Speaker 6: the ones we referenced at film spotting dot net slash lists.

1116
01:06:01,205 --> 01:06:03,245
Speaker 1: Adam, let's take a moment to thank a couple of

1117
01:06:03,245 --> 01:06:07,245
Speaker 1: our film Spotting family members, those folks who support the

1118
01:06:07,325 --> 01:06:11,445
Speaker 1: show with their memberships and their donations. Both of these

1119
01:06:11,485 --> 01:06:15,325
Speaker 1: family members come from Chicago Jake and Chicago and Carrie.

1120
01:06:15,805 --> 01:06:20,005
Speaker 1: Jake share this first episode. He remembers listening to episode

1121
01:06:20,005 --> 01:06:24,005
Speaker 1: seven thirty nine, Blair Witch Project discussion. I had seen

1122
01:06:24,005 --> 01:06:26,885
Speaker 1: this movie in middle school and vowed one never to

1123
01:06:26,925 --> 01:06:30,405
Speaker 1: go camping again, and two never to rewatch the movie.

1124
01:06:31,005 --> 01:06:33,965
Speaker 1: For the rewatch, I can thank Adam and Josh's discussion

1125
01:06:34,045 --> 01:06:35,805
Speaker 1: of the film as I met a commentary on the

1126
01:06:35,885 --> 01:06:41,125
Speaker 1: nature of spectator and violent spectacle. Armed with this analytical frame,

1127
01:06:41,205 --> 01:06:43,965
Speaker 1: I went to revisit it. It didn't work. I was

1128
01:06:44,005 --> 01:06:47,285
Speaker 1: still terrified, but I have been able to go camping again.

1129
01:06:47,405 --> 01:06:51,205
Speaker 1: Oh well, that's nice to hear Jake Carrie shared this.

1130
01:06:51,765 --> 01:06:53,845
Speaker 1: I'm fairly new to the podcast. A couple of years ago.

1131
01:06:53,925 --> 01:06:56,925
Speaker 1: I typed reddit best Film podcast into a search engine

1132
01:06:56,965 --> 01:07:00,005
Speaker 1: and found your show recommended quite a few times. I

1133
01:07:00,045 --> 01:07:01,885
Speaker 1: saw that you were based out of Chicago, and I

1134
01:07:01,965 --> 01:07:04,525
Speaker 1: was immediately sold. I listened to a ton of your

1135
01:07:04,525 --> 01:07:07,645
Speaker 1: episodes during my driving shifts on a road trip to Asheville.

1136
01:07:07,885 --> 01:07:10,165
Speaker 1: During that drive, I heard you were doing a review

1137
01:07:10,165 --> 01:07:13,125
Speaker 1: of De Palma's Phantom of the Paradise for the Film

1138
01:07:13,205 --> 01:07:16,605
Speaker 1: Spotting Family. When I was back in the passenger seat,

1139
01:07:16,645 --> 01:07:19,725
Speaker 1: I signed up and never looked back. I don't always

1140
01:07:19,765 --> 01:07:23,245
Speaker 1: agree with your takes, but I always appreciate your analysis, expertise,

1141
01:07:23,325 --> 01:07:26,245
Speaker 1: and passion. I recommend your podcast often and tell my

1142
01:07:26,325 --> 01:07:28,965
Speaker 1: friends it's the closest thing to listening to Cisco and

1143
01:07:29,005 --> 01:07:32,125
Speaker 1: Ebert do a podcast, though I think you guys like

1144
01:07:32,205 --> 01:07:35,965
Speaker 1: each other much more. Yeah, how about that Adaly probably

1145
01:07:36,325 --> 01:07:39,085
Speaker 1: Phantom who do Phantom of the Paradise was going to

1146
01:07:39,165 --> 01:07:42,845
Speaker 1: bring in Film Spotting Family members, I mean, yeah, programming.

1147
01:07:43,845 --> 01:07:46,765
Speaker 6: When I read that, I got a little nervous, and

1148
01:07:46,805 --> 01:07:50,685
Speaker 6: it was surprised that Carrie ended up being a family member.

1149
01:07:50,805 --> 01:07:54,245
Speaker 6: But to prove that Carrie doesn't just talk the talk,

1150
01:07:54,325 --> 01:07:57,245
Speaker 6: but she walks the walk a review we got wrong.

1151
01:07:57,445 --> 01:07:59,685
Speaker 6: She says, you know, Phantom of the Paradise is.

1152
01:07:59,645 --> 01:08:00,685
Speaker 7: A perfect movie.

1153
01:08:00,925 --> 01:08:04,125
Speaker 6: This movie improves with each rewatch, especially if you're ever

1154
01:08:04,165 --> 01:08:05,845
Speaker 6: blessed enough to watch it with a room full of

1155
01:08:05,845 --> 01:08:08,245
Speaker 6: sickos at the music box who can sing along to

1156
01:08:08,325 --> 01:08:11,405
Speaker 6: the opening number. So she thinks it's a perfect movie.

1157
01:08:11,685 --> 01:08:14,445
Speaker 6: We were, eh, I'm Phantom of the Paradise.

1158
01:08:14,485 --> 01:08:14,885
Speaker 7: We didn't.

1159
01:08:15,125 --> 01:08:17,724
Speaker 6: We didn't quite have the experience clearly that Carrie has

1160
01:08:17,765 --> 01:08:22,645
Speaker 6: with that movie. And yet she still did, as she suggests,

1161
01:08:23,365 --> 01:08:27,045
Speaker 6: enjoy the analysis, despite the fact that she probably didn't

1162
01:08:27,125 --> 01:08:27,804
Speaker 6: agree with us.

1163
01:08:27,805 --> 01:08:29,485
Speaker 7: Now I will agree with her on this.

1164
01:08:30,125 --> 01:08:30,564
Speaker 1: I would.

1165
01:08:30,805 --> 01:08:33,485
Speaker 6: I would truly like to be blessed enough to watch

1166
01:08:33,485 --> 01:08:35,285
Speaker 6: it with a room full of sickos at the music

1167
01:08:35,285 --> 01:08:37,604
Speaker 6: box who can sing along to the opening number. I

1168
01:08:37,685 --> 01:08:40,605
Speaker 6: would genuinely love to have that. But I haven't. I

1169
01:08:40,605 --> 01:08:41,925
Speaker 6: haven't been lucky enough yet.

1170
01:08:42,485 --> 01:08:45,724
Speaker 1: Well, just thanks Carrie for not demanding a refund that.

1171
01:08:45,805 --> 01:08:47,085
Speaker 7: Yeah, all I could say.

1172
01:08:47,125 --> 01:08:50,205
Speaker 6: Man, here's Jake, who says, you guys were both too kind.

1173
01:08:50,525 --> 01:08:52,725
Speaker 6: This is an interesting one. You're both too kind to

1174
01:08:52,765 --> 01:08:56,565
Speaker 6: Steve McQueen's blitz. If the Small Act series teeters on

1175
01:08:56,605 --> 01:08:59,245
Speaker 6: the edge of being Maudlin, blitz is steeped in it,

1176
01:08:59,445 --> 01:09:02,644
Speaker 6: from the period PC lighting to the cliche dialogue. It's

1177
01:09:02,645 --> 01:09:05,045
Speaker 6: a hard watch for me. McQueen is at his best

1178
01:09:05,045 --> 01:09:07,765
Speaker 6: in Widows, where he stays gritty and focused.

1179
01:09:08,725 --> 01:09:10,685
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I like that one quite a bit

1180
01:09:10,725 --> 01:09:11,644
Speaker 1: more than you, Adams.

1181
01:09:11,725 --> 01:09:12,125
Speaker 7: She did.

1182
01:09:12,325 --> 01:09:15,644
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe this is falling falling on my lap, which

1183
01:09:15,765 --> 01:09:19,365
Speaker 1: I get where you're coming from. Jake. It's definitely McQueen

1184
01:09:19,405 --> 01:09:22,085
Speaker 1: working in a different register, and I don't know if

1185
01:09:22,085 --> 01:09:25,085
Speaker 1: that's trying to reach a different audience, But yeah, I

1186
01:09:25,125 --> 01:09:28,205
Speaker 1: found it interested enough in some of his same concerns

1187
01:09:28,245 --> 01:09:31,965
Speaker 1: that I really went for. All right, let's get some

1188
01:09:31,965 --> 01:09:35,325
Speaker 1: more positive stuff here. Carrie's favorite show segment. I may

1189
01:09:35,365 --> 01:09:37,365
Speaker 1: be biased because I was able to attend the last

1190
01:09:37,365 --> 01:09:39,885
Speaker 1: one in person, but I love the year under Wrap party.

1191
01:09:40,085 --> 01:09:42,325
Speaker 1: Thank you for introducing me to do not Expect too

1192
01:09:42,365 --> 01:09:44,325
Speaker 1: much from the End of the World, and also, of

1193
01:09:44,365 --> 01:09:48,604
Speaker 1: course Massacre Theater. All right, here's Jake's favorite segment. Top

1194
01:09:48,685 --> 01:09:53,205
Speaker 1: five bad Dads All right list we did a while back.

1195
01:09:53,325 --> 01:09:56,245
Speaker 1: Jake says, having recently become a dad, myself. I hope

1196
01:09:56,285 --> 01:09:59,844
Speaker 1: to never behave like the main character in Force Maseur

1197
01:10:00,125 --> 01:10:02,845
Speaker 1: Josh's fourth pick, or it should be said any of

1198
01:10:02,845 --> 01:10:03,564
Speaker 1: the other dads.

1199
01:10:03,965 --> 01:10:06,684
Speaker 6: You know, though, Jake, until the avalanche is coming?

1200
01:10:07,205 --> 01:10:09,485
Speaker 7: How do you know? How do you really know?

1201
01:10:10,685 --> 01:10:13,764
Speaker 6: A movie you credit with becoming a cinophile? Jake says Vertigo,

1202
01:10:14,005 --> 01:10:17,005
Speaker 6: great choice. Carrie says, Eternal Sunshine.

1203
01:10:16,485 --> 01:10:17,445
Speaker 7: For the Spotless Mind.

1204
01:10:17,445 --> 01:10:19,285
Speaker 6: I was working in a movie theater during that time

1205
01:10:19,325 --> 01:10:21,485
Speaker 6: period and was able to watch movies for free at

1206
01:10:21,485 --> 01:10:23,125
Speaker 6: any of the theaters in the chain, so I saw

1207
01:10:23,125 --> 01:10:26,485
Speaker 6: it probably five times. The movie completely entranced me. I

1208
01:10:26,485 --> 01:10:28,365
Speaker 6: had never seen anything like it at the time. I

1209
01:10:28,405 --> 01:10:29,925
Speaker 6: watched it so many times that I had to take

1210
01:10:29,925 --> 01:10:32,245
Speaker 6: at least a ten year break from it. I finally

1211
01:10:32,285 --> 01:10:34,445
Speaker 6: saw it again at last year's Crying at the Salt

1212
01:10:34,485 --> 01:10:37,925
Speaker 6: Shed series over Valentine's Day, where John Brian performed and

1213
01:10:37,965 --> 01:10:41,685
Speaker 6: gave an engaging and enlightening talkback. I still love it.

1214
01:10:41,725 --> 01:10:46,205
Speaker 6: That sounds wonderful, doesn't it, We do, think, Carrie. We

1215
01:10:46,285 --> 01:10:48,565
Speaker 6: thank Jake for being family members and for all of

1216
01:10:48,605 --> 01:10:50,325
Speaker 6: those years of listening. And if you think they have

1217
01:10:50,445 --> 01:10:53,005
Speaker 6: good taste, it sounds like they do. You can follow

1218
01:10:53,085 --> 01:10:58,405
Speaker 6: Carrie on Letterboxed at Cinema Mendax So Cinema m E

1219
01:10:58,685 --> 01:11:03,005
Speaker 6: N Dax, and you can follow Jake at JP nineteen

1220
01:11:03,165 --> 01:11:06,285
Speaker 6: sixty five. In addition to keeping us doing what we're doing,

1221
01:11:06,325 --> 01:11:08,525
Speaker 6: membership does come with perks. You get to listen early

1222
01:11:08,525 --> 01:11:10,925
Speaker 6: in ad free, You get our weekly newsletter, You get

1223
01:11:10,965 --> 01:11:14,285
Speaker 6: exclusive opportunities like being part of the Film Spotting Family discord,

1224
01:11:14,805 --> 01:11:18,405
Speaker 6: and you get monthly bonus shows. We have Trivia Spotting

1225
01:11:18,445 --> 01:11:21,525
Speaker 6: coming on March nineteenth. You get to part twoticipate in

1226
01:11:21,605 --> 01:11:26,604
Speaker 6: events like that. You also get voting opportunities like being

1227
01:11:26,645 --> 01:11:29,925
Speaker 6: the group that gets to select the next Film Spotting Marathon.

1228
01:11:30,045 --> 01:11:34,005
Speaker 6: You get to determine show programming. If that all sounds

1229
01:11:34,045 --> 01:11:37,325
Speaker 6: like fun to you. More information about joining the Film

1230
01:11:37,325 --> 01:11:42,125
Speaker 6: Spotting Family is available at Film Spottingfamily dot com. You

1231
01:11:42,125 --> 01:11:45,125
Speaker 6: can also help us by taking a minute to rate

1232
01:11:45,365 --> 01:11:49,445
Speaker 6: or review us over at Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It

1233
01:11:49,485 --> 01:11:52,845
Speaker 6: does help us reach new listeners.

1234
01:11:52,405 --> 01:11:57,724
Speaker 1: And the OSCAR goes to they playing us.

1235
01:11:57,605 --> 01:12:04,165
Speaker 6: All Maybe pop Quiz hotshot? What film won the Oscar

1236
01:12:04,205 --> 01:12:05,445
Speaker 6: for Best Picture last year?

1237
01:12:05,885 --> 01:12:08,325
Speaker 1: Oh? Come on, Honora, Sean Baker's Big Night.

1238
01:12:08,925 --> 01:12:11,045
Speaker 6: Okay, do you actually remember that or did you see

1239
01:12:11,085 --> 01:12:11,965
Speaker 6: the notes in front of you?

1240
01:12:12,525 --> 01:12:15,245
Speaker 1: Yeah? No, I yeah, I mean that would come on

1241
01:12:15,525 --> 01:12:20,245
Speaker 1: like a come on. But we're pretty excited about.

1242
01:12:20,045 --> 01:12:22,644
Speaker 6: That, okay, But you know, we're also at that age

1243
01:12:22,645 --> 01:12:25,684
Speaker 6: where we don't remember what we had for breakfast yesterday.

1244
01:12:25,725 --> 01:12:28,525
Speaker 6: And when I read this, when I read this part

1245
01:12:28,565 --> 01:12:32,245
Speaker 6: of the script that Sam prepared for us, until I

1246
01:12:32,285 --> 01:12:36,085
Speaker 6: read the bullet points below it, I couldn't have pulled

1247
01:12:36,125 --> 01:12:36,684
Speaker 6: out anora.

1248
01:12:37,085 --> 01:12:39,885
Speaker 1: I mean, firutly had forgotten. It's not like either of

1249
01:12:39,965 --> 01:12:43,885
Speaker 1: us in most Oscar years. Yeah, complete blank. So it's

1250
01:12:43,925 --> 01:12:46,684
Speaker 1: not like I managed to keep track of a lot

1251
01:12:46,685 --> 01:12:49,005
Speaker 1: of these things. And ask me who's nominated for this

1252
01:12:49,125 --> 01:12:53,125
Speaker 1: year's Best Picture. I'm out of luck. I'm okay, which

1253
01:12:53,205 --> 01:12:54,885
Speaker 1: is not going to be helpful on next week's show.

1254
01:12:54,885 --> 01:12:59,205
Speaker 1: But I have been paying so little attention to awards

1255
01:12:59,565 --> 01:13:03,005
Speaker 1: shenanigans that I'm going to be really useless next week.

1256
01:13:03,365 --> 01:13:04,165
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1257
01:13:04,325 --> 01:13:06,965
Speaker 6: Well, that was the one that all three of us, you, me,

1258
01:13:07,085 --> 01:13:10,405
Speaker 6: and Michael Phillips got right on last year's Oscar special.

1259
01:13:10,765 --> 01:13:13,245
Speaker 6: Next week we will try to do it again. Who

1260
01:13:13,285 --> 01:13:16,245
Speaker 6: will win, who should win, and who should have been nominated? Now,

1261
01:13:16,285 --> 01:13:19,605
Speaker 6: last year we did all think Anora would win, but

1262
01:13:19,805 --> 01:13:24,684
Speaker 6: we disagreed about the movie that should. When you picked Anora,

1263
01:13:25,205 --> 01:13:27,285
Speaker 6: I picked the Brutalist I love Donora. I think we

1264
01:13:27,325 --> 01:13:29,845
Speaker 6: all three were big fans of Anora, but I did

1265
01:13:29,885 --> 01:13:34,045
Speaker 6: have the Brutalists slightly higher. Michael had Nickelboys as his

1266
01:13:34,205 --> 01:13:38,045
Speaker 6: favorite of the Best Picture nominees. Next week we will

1267
01:13:38,045 --> 01:13:41,604
Speaker 6: have our Oscars special and we will share results from

1268
01:13:41,605 --> 01:13:45,965
Speaker 6: the official Film Spotting Best Picture survey our ballot. We

1269
01:13:46,005 --> 01:13:49,405
Speaker 6: invited our listeners Josh to imagine themselves as members of

1270
01:13:49,445 --> 01:13:53,325
Speaker 6: the Academy and submit their ranked choice Best Picture ballots,

1271
01:13:54,005 --> 01:13:58,645
Speaker 6: so we'll see how they all stack up there somehow.

1272
01:13:58,805 --> 01:14:01,405
Speaker 6: We're also going to try to fit in here. It

1273
01:14:01,485 --> 01:14:05,165
Speaker 6: is the play and round of Film Spotting Madness, best

1274
01:14:05,165 --> 01:14:07,605
Speaker 6: of the nineteen forties. It is March. That means that

1275
01:14:07,645 --> 01:14:09,445
Speaker 6: Film Spotting Madness is upon us.

1276
01:14:09,685 --> 01:14:11,245
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, here we go.

1277
01:14:11,725 --> 01:14:12,005
Speaker 7: Yes.

1278
01:14:12,125 --> 01:14:15,525
Speaker 6: In two weeks we'll have a Sacred Cow review of

1279
01:14:15,565 --> 01:14:18,724
Speaker 6: a film that we had penciled in for a review

1280
01:14:18,925 --> 01:14:21,285
Speaker 6: later in the year. It's a movie that not only I,

1281
01:14:21,405 --> 01:14:24,325
Speaker 6: but I think most people associate with Summer when I

1282
01:14:24,365 --> 01:14:28,525
Speaker 6: saw it when it was originally released. Rob Reiner's Stand

1283
01:14:28,525 --> 01:14:31,405
Speaker 6: By Me it turns forty this year. It is though,

1284
01:14:31,445 --> 01:14:36,285
Speaker 6: getting a theatrical re release this month, and that has

1285
01:14:36,325 --> 01:14:39,644
Speaker 6: inspired the new not at All Flawed Film Spotting Poll

1286
01:14:39,725 --> 01:14:45,405
Speaker 6: question eighties Rob Reiner movies. You can only choose one,

1287
01:14:45,645 --> 01:14:50,525
Speaker 6: and this, as we said earlier, is just so not easy, Josh.

1288
01:14:50,925 --> 01:14:54,845
Speaker 1: Maybe it's helpful that we do have distinct genres here,

1289
01:14:54,885 --> 01:14:56,964
Speaker 1: as you called out at the top of the show, Adams.

1290
01:14:56,965 --> 01:15:00,564
Speaker 1: So our four options this is Spinal Tap nineteen eighty four,

1291
01:15:00,845 --> 01:15:04,365
Speaker 1: stand By Me from eighty six, The Princess Bride from

1292
01:15:04,445 --> 01:15:07,764
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty seven, and then When Harry Met Sally nineteen

1293
01:15:07,885 --> 01:15:10,925
Speaker 1: eighty nine. So if you're completely flummixed you love all

1294
01:15:10,965 --> 01:15:14,245
Speaker 1: those movies, maybe maybe just go with your favorite genre

1295
01:15:14,365 --> 01:15:16,725
Speaker 1: among them. I don't know, that might be what I

1296
01:15:16,765 --> 01:15:19,125
Speaker 1: have to do. We have a comment here that will

1297
01:15:19,165 --> 01:15:23,125
Speaker 1: help set up your deliberations. Andy Bucatti and Kansas City.

1298
01:15:23,645 --> 01:15:26,445
Speaker 1: I've shown stand By Me to both my teenage children

1299
01:15:26,605 --> 01:15:30,165
Speaker 1: and it still lands amazingly well. I've never seen a

1300
01:15:30,205 --> 01:15:32,885
Speaker 1: movie better capture the weird way boys and young men

1301
01:15:32,885 --> 01:15:35,085
Speaker 1: relate to each other. I tend to be very stingy

1302
01:15:35,125 --> 01:15:38,285
Speaker 1: with high letterboxed rankings, and I give it four and

1303
01:15:38,325 --> 01:15:40,965
Speaker 1: a half stars, a rating that I only tend to

1304
01:15:40,965 --> 01:15:43,685
Speaker 1: give to one to three films annually. That means it

1305
01:15:43,765 --> 01:15:48,245
Speaker 1: lands fourth in this poll. Spinal Tap invented a genre

1306
01:15:48,325 --> 01:15:50,644
Speaker 1: and is still hilarious, which is saying so much since

1307
01:15:50,685 --> 01:15:53,684
Speaker 1: humor built around gags and bits doesn't often carry over

1308
01:15:53,725 --> 01:15:56,925
Speaker 1: forty plus years later. And while it obviously led to

1309
01:15:56,925 --> 01:15:59,685
Speaker 1: the Christopher Guest films and other bangers such as What

1310
01:15:59,765 --> 01:16:02,205
Speaker 1: We Do in the Shadows and Nirvana the Band, The

1311
01:16:02,205 --> 01:16:05,525
Speaker 1: Show the Movie, it had an arguably even greater influence

1312
01:16:05,565 --> 01:16:08,405
Speaker 1: on the past two decades of television. Do we have

1313
01:16:08,485 --> 01:16:11,925
Speaker 1: the Office Parks and rec all the others without it?

1314
01:16:12,285 --> 01:16:17,165
Speaker 1: Five stars? That puts it third on this list. When

1315
01:16:17,205 --> 01:16:19,445
Speaker 1: Harry met Sally for My Money is the best roundcom

1316
01:16:19,445 --> 01:16:22,445
Speaker 1: ever made. Nora f Friends right in peak form, star

1317
01:16:22,525 --> 01:16:26,765
Speaker 1: chemistry never better, the perfect tone five stars. That's your

1318
01:16:26,845 --> 01:16:30,325
Speaker 1: number two on this list. If I asked every person

1319
01:16:30,365 --> 01:16:33,125
Speaker 1: I know what their favorite movie is, I am quite

1320
01:16:33,165 --> 01:16:36,724
Speaker 1: confident the most common answer will be The Princess Bride,

1321
01:16:37,125 --> 01:16:40,205
Speaker 1: and the age ranges and life experiences of those people

1322
01:16:40,205 --> 01:16:43,005
Speaker 1: will be vast. Every single person who has the ability

1323
01:16:43,045 --> 01:16:45,445
Speaker 1: to sit through a feature length film has the potential

1324
01:16:45,485 --> 01:16:48,205
Speaker 1: to not only like but love this film, whether that

1325
01:16:48,245 --> 01:16:51,564
Speaker 1: person is six, twenty six, fifty six, or eighty six.

1326
01:16:51,845 --> 01:16:53,925
Speaker 1: I'm not sure I can name another film that I

1327
01:16:53,965 --> 01:16:57,085
Speaker 1: could fit, that I feel could fit that description. Has

1328
01:16:57,125 --> 01:17:00,045
Speaker 1: there ever been a perfect movie? Probably not, but maybe

1329
01:17:00,085 --> 01:17:05,045
Speaker 1: The Princess Bride is five stars number one on this list.

1330
01:17:05,845 --> 01:17:09,245
Speaker 6: So I align with Andy a little bit here. It

1331
01:17:09,285 --> 01:17:13,325
Speaker 6: definitely comes down Josh for me to Spinal Tap in

1332
01:17:13,365 --> 01:17:16,525
Speaker 6: The Princess Bride as much as I also really like,

1333
01:17:17,005 --> 01:17:18,724
Speaker 6: or at least I did when it came out stand

1334
01:17:18,765 --> 01:17:21,644
Speaker 6: by me, And I also do appreciate when har thattt Sally.

1335
01:17:22,085 --> 01:17:24,725
Speaker 6: Those two Spinal Tap and The Princess Bride are just

1336
01:17:25,365 --> 01:17:29,005
Speaker 6: my personal affection, not necessarily thinking about how well made

1337
01:17:29,045 --> 01:17:32,205
Speaker 6: they are, quote unquote, just my affection for those films.

1338
01:17:32,245 --> 01:17:35,085
Speaker 6: Those those are in another category. Those are those are

1339
01:17:35,125 --> 01:17:41,485
Speaker 6: in that pantheon of just all time personal favorites. I

1340
01:17:41,525 --> 01:17:45,604
Speaker 6: can't imagine life without those two films. So I don't

1341
01:17:45,605 --> 01:17:47,205
Speaker 6: know how I would pick between him and I guess

1342
01:17:47,245 --> 01:17:50,325
Speaker 6: I have a week or so to think about it,

1343
01:17:50,485 --> 01:17:52,445
Speaker 6: and I'm going to take every bit of that time.

1344
01:17:52,925 --> 01:17:55,405
Speaker 1: Is it fair to say that something like personal affection

1345
01:17:55,485 --> 01:17:59,644
Speaker 1: should be maybe given more weight. Yeah, among Rob Reiner films.

1346
01:17:59,725 --> 01:18:02,564
Speaker 1: I mean, I just think that's something he he had

1347
01:18:02,565 --> 01:18:04,965
Speaker 1: a knack for. He had a knack for making movies

1348
01:18:05,005 --> 01:18:07,965
Speaker 1: that audience has responded to in that way, which shouldn't

1349
01:18:08,005 --> 01:18:11,125
Speaker 1: be discounted. So maybe maybe in this in this case

1350
01:18:11,205 --> 01:18:13,765
Speaker 1: more than most, let your heart lead the way.

1351
01:18:14,365 --> 01:18:16,205
Speaker 6: There you go vote in that poll and leave a

1352
01:18:16,245 --> 01:18:18,405
Speaker 6: comment at film spotting dot net.

1353
01:18:18,485 --> 01:18:21,485
Speaker 7: Let your heart lead the way. As Josh said, for.

1354
01:18:21,365 --> 01:18:23,845
Speaker 6: Future episodes, if you want to see what's coming up,

1355
01:18:23,885 --> 01:18:25,564
Speaker 6: you can go to film spotting dot net. You can

1356
01:18:25,565 --> 01:18:29,285
Speaker 6: click on episodes and hopefully get a sense of what

1357
01:18:29,805 --> 01:18:30,765
Speaker 6: is in store.

1358
01:18:30,965 --> 01:18:33,205
Speaker 1: What's happening right now, not just coming up. On our

1359
01:18:33,245 --> 01:18:36,205
Speaker 1: sister podcast, The Next Picture Show is part two of

1360
01:18:36,245 --> 01:18:40,565
Speaker 1: their Pop Classics pairing, So they've gotten to their discussion

1361
01:18:40,725 --> 01:18:44,325
Speaker 1: of Wuthering Heights, which I enjoyed quite a bit. Previously

1362
01:18:44,925 --> 01:18:48,405
Speaker 1: they talked about Boz Lahurman's Romeo plus Juliet from nineteen

1363
01:18:48,485 --> 01:18:51,525
Speaker 1: ninety six, so on this part two they're getting into

1364
01:18:51,565 --> 01:18:55,245
Speaker 1: the good comparisons between those two. New episodes of the

1365
01:18:55,245 --> 01:18:58,165
Speaker 1: Next Picture Show drop every Tuesday and you can find

1366
01:18:58,165 --> 01:19:02,805
Speaker 1: them wherever you get your podcasts.

1367
01:19:03,645 --> 01:19:04,525
Speaker 7: Well, pats you up.

1368
01:19:08,165 --> 01:19:19,085
Speaker 6: All the pigoy The Pantheon project continues, Josh. A couple

1369
01:19:19,125 --> 01:19:23,085
Speaker 6: of weeks ago, me you, Producer Sam, we nominated nine

1370
01:19:23,125 --> 01:19:28,564
Speaker 6: films for the illustrious Film Spotting Pantheon. Two of those

1371
01:19:28,685 --> 01:19:33,845
Speaker 6: nine will be our twenty twenty six inductees. Before we

1372
01:19:33,925 --> 01:19:36,245
Speaker 6: turn those nine titles over to the committee, the Film

1373
01:19:36,285 --> 01:19:38,685
Speaker 6: Spotting family members, we do need to make sure that

1374
01:19:39,325 --> 01:19:43,925
Speaker 6: we are on record having discussed every one of those films.

1375
01:19:43,965 --> 01:19:48,045
Speaker 6: Now we have done that with six of those films,

1376
01:19:48,605 --> 01:19:51,325
Speaker 6: Cleo from five to seven, Harlan County, USA, The best

1377
01:19:51,365 --> 01:19:54,485
Speaker 6: years of our lives, The Battle of Algiers Stopped making sense.

1378
01:19:54,605 --> 01:19:58,285
Speaker 6: Close up, great lineup, And just a couple of weeks ago,

1379
01:19:58,285 --> 01:20:01,765
Speaker 6: we knocked off one more one of your nominations, john

1380
01:20:01,805 --> 01:20:04,725
Speaker 6: Ford's How Green Was My Valley? It is true that

1381
01:20:04,805 --> 01:20:10,045
Speaker 6: john Ford currently not represented in the Film Spotting Pantheon.

1382
01:20:10,885 --> 01:20:13,445
Speaker 6: Now we get to a film from another director who

1383
01:20:13,525 --> 01:20:18,885
Speaker 6: is conspicuously missing from the pantheon, a Kurri Kurosawa and

1384
01:20:19,245 --> 01:20:23,965
Speaker 6: the movie Raschoman, one of producer Sam's picks. This was

1385
01:20:25,165 --> 01:20:28,485
Speaker 6: part of a marathon that preceded your time on the show,

1386
01:20:28,725 --> 01:20:31,205
Speaker 6: and Rashaman is a film that made my top ten

1387
01:20:31,525 --> 01:20:34,325
Speaker 6: films of all time when we did that Cit and

1388
01:20:34,405 --> 01:20:37,525
Speaker 6: Sound exercise back in twenty twelve. On the last Sight

1389
01:20:37,605 --> 01:20:39,604
Speaker 6: and Sound Best Films of All Time list in twenty

1390
01:20:39,645 --> 01:20:42,965
Speaker 6: twenty two, it came in at number forty one, and

1391
01:20:43,165 --> 01:20:47,485
Speaker 6: on the director's pull it was number twenty. We have

1392
01:20:48,005 --> 01:20:51,885
Speaker 6: been talking about Kerrosawa a lot lately. Our February blind

1393
01:20:51,885 --> 01:20:54,525
Speaker 6: Spotting review for family members was nineteen forty eight s

1394
01:20:54,565 --> 01:20:57,885
Speaker 6: Drunken Angel. Last August we talked about nineteen forty nine

1395
01:20:57,925 --> 01:21:00,765
Speaker 6: Stray Dog. That was another blind Spotting review. Here we

1396
01:21:00,805 --> 01:21:04,764
Speaker 6: are at nineteen fifty talking about rasham On, a film

1397
01:21:04,845 --> 01:21:09,565
Speaker 6: as famous for perhaps more famous for its multiple unreliable narrators,

1398
01:21:09,685 --> 01:21:13,804
Speaker 6: its examination of subjective truth than for the film itself.

1399
01:21:14,125 --> 01:21:17,125
Speaker 6: How long has it been, Josh since you've seen the movie?

1400
01:21:17,565 --> 01:21:19,724
Speaker 6: How did it play for you this time?

1401
01:21:21,165 --> 01:21:24,525
Speaker 1: Going through that history of our Kirosawa discussions lately, I

1402
01:21:24,565 --> 01:21:26,924
Speaker 1: don't think we should be allowed to have another Kurrosawa

1403
01:21:26,925 --> 01:21:29,644
Speaker 1: discussion until one of his movies gets in the pantheon.

1404
01:21:30,005 --> 01:21:33,604
Speaker 1: It's kind of ridiculous. Yeah, So somehow maybe the voting

1405
01:21:33,645 --> 01:21:37,325
Speaker 1: will go that way. We'll see this is a movie yeah,

1406
01:21:37,325 --> 01:21:39,085
Speaker 1: I think it came up when we first talked about

1407
01:21:39,285 --> 01:21:42,525
Speaker 1: watching this again. Is sort of a college if you

1408
01:21:42,565 --> 01:21:46,005
Speaker 1: did any sort of you know, cinema class or maybe

1409
01:21:46,005 --> 01:21:48,644
Speaker 1: even just an English class, where you ended up watching

1410
01:21:48,685 --> 01:21:53,285
Speaker 1: a lot of movies. You'll see Raschamon. That's the setting

1411
01:21:53,285 --> 01:21:58,325
Speaker 1: where I first sawt Then I saw it again. Oh

1412
01:21:58,405 --> 01:22:00,245
Speaker 1: this is this is amusing. What was the movie it

1413
01:22:00,285 --> 01:22:01,765
Speaker 1: was tied to? So when I was writing for The

1414
01:22:01,805 --> 01:22:04,205
Speaker 1: Naperville Sun, when I was the movie critic, I had

1415
01:22:04,205 --> 01:22:07,285
Speaker 1: a DVD library column, and I would basically take the

1416
01:22:07,365 --> 01:22:12,564
Speaker 1: excuse of a recent release to look at an older

1417
01:22:12,765 --> 01:22:15,485
Speaker 1: beloved movie, kind of like, you know, maybe a Sacred

1418
01:22:15,525 --> 01:22:19,765
Speaker 1: Cow review something like that that connected to it. The

1419
01:22:19,765 --> 01:22:24,564
Speaker 1: movie that I connect to Rashaman was vantage Point, which

1420
01:22:25,165 --> 01:22:31,285
Speaker 1: I forgot even existed. This is who's the guy from Lost?

1421
01:22:31,605 --> 01:22:34,125
Speaker 1: What was his name? That that actor? I know I'm

1422
01:22:34,125 --> 01:22:36,285
Speaker 1: putting on spotting here and I can't even remember. I

1423
01:22:36,285 --> 01:22:37,045
Speaker 1: should have known.

1424
01:22:36,925 --> 01:22:39,844
Speaker 7: This barking up the wrong tree.

1425
01:22:40,085 --> 01:22:45,485
Speaker 1: Okay, two thousand and eight, vantage Point, starring Matthew Fox,

1426
01:22:46,485 --> 01:22:49,085
Speaker 1: an unreliable narrator thriller, did not come up at him

1427
01:22:49,125 --> 01:22:52,685
Speaker 1: on our top five list, but at any rate, I

1428
01:22:52,765 --> 01:22:55,725
Speaker 1: used it as the excuse to write about Rashaman, and

1429
01:22:55,885 --> 01:22:59,565
Speaker 1: I still second time I saw it ostensibly a professional

1430
01:22:59,565 --> 01:23:02,245
Speaker 1: critic at that point, I still don't think I appreciate

1431
01:23:02,285 --> 01:23:04,885
Speaker 1: it as fully as I should have. I think I

1432
01:23:04,965 --> 01:23:09,965
Speaker 1: was still adjusting to the type of performance that you

1433
01:23:10,045 --> 01:23:14,604
Speaker 1: got in mid century Japanese cinema and Mafune you know,

1434
01:23:15,205 --> 01:23:18,845
Speaker 1: we know gave you that in full, like this very

1435
01:23:18,885 --> 01:23:22,725
Speaker 1: heightened style of performance. And also looking back at some

1436
01:23:22,845 --> 01:23:27,725
Speaker 1: of what I wrote a little bit, the talkiness of

1437
01:23:27,965 --> 01:23:32,285
Speaker 1: the not necessarily moralism, which we touched on in our

1438
01:23:32,325 --> 01:23:37,045
Speaker 1: earlier discussion of Drunken Angel, but more just talking about

1439
01:23:37,045 --> 01:23:40,885
Speaker 1: the themes of the film among those three characters who

1440
01:23:41,085 --> 01:23:44,325
Speaker 1: offer our framework at the ruined Gate, the Raschauman Gate,

1441
01:23:44,325 --> 01:23:48,125
Speaker 1: where the storm is the commoner, the priest, and the woodcutter,

1442
01:23:48,645 --> 01:23:52,005
Speaker 1: and how they would explicate the themes for us that

1443
01:23:52,045 --> 01:23:55,085
Speaker 1: we've just seen. I think I have more space for

1444
01:23:55,245 --> 01:23:58,405
Speaker 1: understanding what's going on there now and the framework for that,

1445
01:23:58,605 --> 01:24:02,085
Speaker 1: and of course have come to understand the type of

1446
01:24:02,125 --> 01:24:04,205
Speaker 1: performance that we're getting this film. So all that to

1447
01:24:04,205 --> 01:24:07,525
Speaker 1: say is, yeah, this just keeps getting better. Rassaman keeps

1448
01:24:07,525 --> 01:24:10,125
Speaker 1: getting better, and it is so much more than those

1449
01:24:10,165 --> 01:24:13,604
Speaker 1: ideas and then those themes. It's just so beautiful. It's

1450
01:24:13,605 --> 01:24:18,565
Speaker 1: so visual, not shocking to hear when we're talking about Kurasawa.

1451
01:24:18,605 --> 01:24:21,845
Speaker 1: But maybe you forget that because at least I tend

1452
01:24:21,885 --> 01:24:26,045
Speaker 1: to think about his other movies being the Spectacles, whereas

1453
01:24:26,085 --> 01:24:30,245
Speaker 1: here you get some composition and imagery that's as gorgeous

1454
01:24:30,285 --> 01:24:31,285
Speaker 1: as anything he's done.

1455
01:24:31,565 --> 01:24:32,685
Speaker 7: Yeah, you definitely do.

1456
01:24:33,045 --> 01:24:36,165
Speaker 6: It's interesting what you said about performance and adjusting to that,

1457
01:24:36,245 --> 01:24:38,325
Speaker 6: because I went back and looked at my notes from

1458
01:24:39,565 --> 01:24:43,885
Speaker 6: the marathon that we did whatever year that was two

1459
01:24:43,885 --> 01:24:47,125
Speaker 6: thousand and eight or nine or ten, somewhere in there,

1460
01:24:47,605 --> 01:24:50,285
Speaker 6: and I mentioned that as good as Muffune is, that

1461
01:24:51,005 --> 01:24:53,644
Speaker 6: I found myself for the second time in a row,

1462
01:24:53,725 --> 01:24:58,005
Speaker 6: whatever the movie was that preceded it, appreciating Takashe Shimura

1463
01:24:58,045 --> 01:25:01,005
Speaker 6: a little bit more. And we've recently, in these Blind

1464
01:25:01,045 --> 01:25:06,565
Speaker 6: Spotting reviews, been really praising Shamura in addition to praising Muffune.

1465
01:25:06,805 --> 01:25:14,085
Speaker 6: And it is such an animated performance. Still, it's one

1466
01:25:14,085 --> 01:25:18,005
Speaker 6: that's interesting for me to watch and consider and try

1467
01:25:18,045 --> 01:25:23,245
Speaker 6: to try to against some of his other performances, and

1468
01:25:23,285 --> 01:25:29,565
Speaker 6: certainly try to consider and compare against the other performances

1469
01:25:29,605 --> 01:25:32,405
Speaker 6: in the film like Shimuras, right, which are at just

1470
01:25:32,805 --> 01:25:36,405
Speaker 6: at such a different level, right, in such a different volume.

1471
01:25:36,845 --> 01:25:39,045
Speaker 7: But something I'll at least throw out.

1472
01:25:38,885 --> 01:25:43,565
Speaker 6: There that that I've been wrestling with since I rewatched

1473
01:25:43,605 --> 01:25:50,285
Speaker 6: this movie in preparation for this review, this recurring habit.

1474
01:25:50,725 --> 01:25:58,325
Speaker 6: I'll say, of his bandit character, who is named Tajamaru,

1475
01:25:58,525 --> 01:26:03,805
Speaker 6: his bandit, what's the defining characteristic of that character? What

1476
01:26:03,965 --> 01:26:08,045
Speaker 6: is the vocal tick almost that he has and the

1477
01:26:08,045 --> 01:26:12,805
Speaker 6: thing that makes him seem so big? And it's that laugh, right,

1478
01:26:12,925 --> 01:26:20,405
Speaker 6: that exaggerated laugh, the way he admonishes those he's speaking

1479
01:26:20,445 --> 01:26:23,325
Speaker 6: to or tries to rebuke them in some way with

1480
01:26:23,405 --> 01:26:26,845
Speaker 6: that laugh. And what I noticed throughout Josh is other

1481
01:26:27,005 --> 01:26:31,925
Speaker 6: characters in the movie actually take on a similar kind

1482
01:26:31,965 --> 01:26:36,965
Speaker 6: of laugh, including the wife. It's not it's not just him,

1483
01:26:37,245 --> 01:26:40,725
Speaker 6: And I started to wonder, I mean, of course the

1484
01:26:40,765 --> 01:26:45,365
Speaker 6: commoner as well, does it in response to Shimer's wood cutter.

1485
01:26:45,925 --> 01:26:52,644
Speaker 6: And I wonder if I'm wondering if that that laugh

1486
01:26:53,685 --> 01:27:00,525
Speaker 6: here takes on what Usa in Stray Dog, that yelp,

1487
01:27:00,765 --> 01:27:03,165
Speaker 6: that that cry that he lets out at the end

1488
01:27:03,165 --> 01:27:07,045
Speaker 6: of that film, that almost becomes as we talked about it,

1489
01:27:07,125 --> 01:27:12,564
Speaker 6: in a way this like this, this scream against or

1490
01:27:12,885 --> 01:27:17,965
Speaker 6: reflecting the human condition. It's almost this this animalistic yelp. Right,

1491
01:27:18,005 --> 01:27:21,764
Speaker 6: there's no other way to express the of the human

1492
01:27:21,765 --> 01:27:27,564
Speaker 6: condition and hear this cruelty of humanity, the cruelty of

1493
01:27:27,605 --> 01:27:31,725
Speaker 6: the universe that the men at the beginning of this

1494
01:27:31,805 --> 01:27:37,564
Speaker 6: movie are saying. This story depicts and proves it's almost

1495
01:27:37,605 --> 01:27:42,845
Speaker 6: like that that laugh is is almost the only way

1496
01:27:42,925 --> 01:27:47,325
Speaker 6: these characters can can react in the face of a

1497
01:27:47,325 --> 01:27:48,165
Speaker 6: cruel universe.

1498
01:27:49,645 --> 01:27:54,245
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you noted that the other characters offer

1499
01:27:54,765 --> 01:27:58,805
Speaker 1: a different shade on that, because it is important to

1500
01:27:58,845 --> 01:28:01,805
Speaker 1: see this in the context of the mode of performance

1501
01:28:01,925 --> 01:28:05,245
Speaker 1: that was being given in these sorts of movies, not

1502
01:28:05,365 --> 01:28:08,325
Speaker 1: even just the period ones that you know, Chris I

1503
01:28:08,365 --> 01:28:10,085
Speaker 1: was making, but as you as you pointed out, we

1504
01:28:10,125 --> 01:28:13,724
Speaker 1: see some of this in the more contemporary set films

1505
01:28:14,165 --> 01:28:17,085
Speaker 1: of his. So yeah, it is it's a generally a

1506
01:28:17,165 --> 01:28:20,804
Speaker 1: mode of performance that you, as you know, a generally

1507
01:28:21,085 --> 01:28:23,845
Speaker 1: Hollywood viewer has to adjust to, and I think the

1508
01:28:23,845 --> 01:28:27,085
Speaker 1: more films that I've seen of his or in Japan

1509
01:28:27,205 --> 01:28:30,965
Speaker 1: from that era, generally it was helpful also in this context,

1510
01:28:31,005 --> 01:28:33,765
Speaker 1: specifically in Rascha Man Roussia Man I did think that

1511
01:28:34,325 --> 01:28:38,045
Speaker 1: the bandit is when he is most maniacal in his laughter.

1512
01:28:38,765 --> 01:28:41,445
Speaker 1: I believe it's when he's before the court, before the

1513
01:28:41,525 --> 01:28:47,445
Speaker 1: judge and he's tied, right, he's subdued and it, and

1514
01:28:47,525 --> 01:28:50,564
Speaker 1: yet he's not cowed by any of this. But the

1515
01:28:50,645 --> 01:28:53,645
Speaker 1: only expression he really has in that scenario.

1516
01:28:53,365 --> 01:28:54,045
Speaker 7: Is his voice.

1517
01:28:54,085 --> 01:28:56,085
Speaker 1: So so I did come to see that he was

1518
01:28:56,125 --> 01:28:59,965
Speaker 1: almost using that laugh as a weapon. Or this is

1519
01:29:00,005 --> 01:29:02,045
Speaker 1: tied to what you were saying about, like, it's right,

1520
01:29:02,085 --> 01:29:05,125
Speaker 1: it's his power, it's it's like an expression of defiance.

1521
01:29:05,245 --> 01:29:07,365
Speaker 1: So so yeah, all that to say is, you know,

1522
01:29:07,445 --> 01:29:10,205
Speaker 1: it was it was way easier this time to not

1523
01:29:10,645 --> 01:29:13,125
Speaker 1: have that be just a little bit of something I

1524
01:29:13,165 --> 01:29:16,005
Speaker 1: had to move past. It was more something I saw

1525
01:29:16,205 --> 01:29:19,644
Speaker 1: its relevance to this particular film and have a better

1526
01:29:19,685 --> 01:29:23,884
Speaker 1: understand of its context with in this genre of cinema.

1527
01:29:23,925 --> 01:29:28,085
Speaker 6: Was there anything on this viewing we tend to talk

1528
01:29:28,125 --> 01:29:32,285
Speaker 6: about this. There tend to be aspects of these films

1529
01:29:32,285 --> 01:29:33,965
Speaker 6: and we haven't seen them in a long time that

1530
01:29:34,045 --> 01:29:37,405
Speaker 6: stand out. Was there anything that surprised you? I think

1531
01:29:37,405 --> 01:29:39,605
Speaker 6: they didn't remember or just surprised you.

1532
01:29:40,085 --> 01:29:42,965
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's more you know, you basically you know

1533
01:29:43,045 --> 01:29:45,564
Speaker 1: the idea of Raschamon, right, So you're not all that surprise,

1534
01:29:45,645 --> 01:29:48,405
Speaker 1: even though I didn't remember exactly what every witness's story

1535
01:29:48,565 --> 01:29:50,565
Speaker 1: was sure or what we find out the end, so

1536
01:29:50,885 --> 01:29:53,005
Speaker 1: it wasn't that so much. I think, going back to

1537
01:29:53,045 --> 01:29:59,125
Speaker 1: that beauty that's always striking, there is one shot here

1538
01:29:59,205 --> 01:30:01,765
Speaker 1: that could be out of a fairy tale where the

1539
01:30:01,845 --> 01:30:05,285
Speaker 1: wife has been left alone by a brook with her horse,

1540
01:30:05,885 --> 01:30:08,525
Speaker 1: and we've been somewhere else, I forget who we're following,

1541
01:30:08,565 --> 01:30:11,005
Speaker 1: perhaps the husband for a bit, and it just cuts

1542
01:30:11,045 --> 01:30:15,645
Speaker 1: back to this, you know, wide screen, full shot, that

1543
01:30:15,885 --> 01:30:20,325
Speaker 1: sunlight coming through the forest trees above on her as

1544
01:30:20,365 --> 01:30:24,445
Speaker 1: she's in stillness, kneeling by this brook. I mean, it's

1545
01:30:24,805 --> 01:30:30,804
Speaker 1: just like something unreal, like something from an imaginary fantasy novel.

1546
01:30:30,885 --> 01:30:33,885
Speaker 1: So it was moments like that. But also I think

1547
01:30:33,965 --> 01:30:38,445
Speaker 1: the cleverness what you're surprised by is it's not just

1548
01:30:38,485 --> 01:30:41,845
Speaker 1: that you're getting different stories, but it's the cleverness in it.

1549
01:30:41,885 --> 01:30:44,005
Speaker 1: And the one element that stood out to me in

1550
01:30:44,045 --> 01:30:46,405
Speaker 1: this way were the two fight scenes we get. We

1551
01:30:46,525 --> 01:30:50,445
Speaker 1: get incredible fight scenes between the husband and the bandit right,

1552
01:30:50,525 --> 01:30:57,325
Speaker 1: The first one so thrilling, just intricately choreographed, athletically performed

1553
01:30:57,485 --> 01:31:01,724
Speaker 1: the camera movement here so exciting and sophisticated. I loved

1554
01:31:01,925 --> 01:31:05,805
Speaker 1: also how they used the levels of ground, like the

1555
01:31:05,845 --> 01:31:09,485
Speaker 1: topography where one character would be up above the other

1556
01:31:09,565 --> 01:31:12,844
Speaker 1: and the camera would be below to generate suspense and excitement.

1557
01:31:13,725 --> 01:31:16,525
Speaker 1: Then we get the second one later in the film,

1558
01:31:17,165 --> 01:31:21,605
Speaker 1: completely awkward, so clumsy. They both seem scared. It's like

1559
01:31:21,645 --> 01:31:24,365
Speaker 1: the scene you talked about in Drunken Angel right where

1560
01:31:24,365 --> 01:31:27,445
Speaker 1: they're slipping among the paint on the floor. And of

1561
01:31:27,485 --> 01:31:31,365
Speaker 1: course that second fight that's the Woodcutter's version of the

1562
01:31:31,405 --> 01:31:34,605
Speaker 1: story where they look like fools whose version was the

1563
01:31:34,605 --> 01:31:37,925
Speaker 1: first one? That the The Adventures of Robin Hood version

1564
01:31:38,085 --> 01:31:42,045
Speaker 1: like slashbuckling, it's the bandit right. So it's just the

1565
01:31:42,125 --> 01:31:47,285
Speaker 1: cleverness of, you know, emphasizing the degree of the unreliability

1566
01:31:47,885 --> 01:31:51,845
Speaker 1: in that sort of staging that catches you afresh and

1567
01:31:51,965 --> 01:31:55,564
Speaker 1: you're kind of like, oh, yeah, this really was brilliant.

1568
01:31:56,205 --> 01:31:56,644
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1569
01:31:56,685 --> 01:31:59,125
Speaker 6: Well, it's like you read my mind because that's exactly

1570
01:31:59,165 --> 01:32:02,805
Speaker 6: where I wanted to go, and and I do kind

1571
01:32:02,805 --> 01:32:06,285
Speaker 6: of have, maybe even more than usual, the long winded

1572
01:32:06,285 --> 01:32:08,564
Speaker 6: thought here. So Josh, please just jump in at any

1573
01:32:08,605 --> 01:32:12,005
Speaker 6: point but before I get to that, I will also

1574
01:32:12,085 --> 01:32:16,125
Speaker 6: say the biggest surprise for me, and you said it.

1575
01:32:16,205 --> 01:32:19,165
Speaker 6: I didn't remember, of course, every little permutation or distinction

1576
01:32:19,245 --> 01:32:23,405
Speaker 6: between the stories, but one major thing I forgot. I

1577
01:32:23,485 --> 01:32:26,845
Speaker 6: did forget that the Dead Man had their story told

1578
01:32:27,565 --> 01:32:31,165
Speaker 6: and he was told through a Shinto medium.

1579
01:32:31,205 --> 01:32:31,965
Speaker 1: Incredible.

1580
01:32:32,125 --> 01:32:35,965
Speaker 6: I had completely forgotten that that that we were going

1581
01:32:36,045 --> 01:32:39,525
Speaker 6: to have a story told by someone who was getting

1582
01:32:39,565 --> 01:32:42,005
Speaker 6: that that voice, who was getting that story told to

1583
01:32:42,045 --> 01:32:47,245
Speaker 6: them from from the the afterlife. I had somehow, Josh

1584
01:32:47,285 --> 01:32:48,205
Speaker 6: completely forgotten.

1585
01:32:48,245 --> 01:32:49,405
Speaker 1: What a wild sequence.

1586
01:32:49,485 --> 01:32:52,485
Speaker 6: I still don't completely know what to make of that.

1587
01:32:54,045 --> 01:32:56,604
Speaker 6: It puts this movie in a different in a different

1588
01:32:56,645 --> 01:32:59,445
Speaker 6: type of reality. Obviously, Oh yeah.

1589
01:32:59,365 --> 01:33:01,725
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yeah, proceed, But I do want to come

1590
01:33:01,805 --> 01:33:04,644
Speaker 1: back to that because I think, yeah, there was something

1591
01:33:04,685 --> 01:33:07,844
Speaker 1: that was tied to the sophistication of the film related

1592
01:33:07,845 --> 01:33:08,564
Speaker 1: to that sequence.

1593
01:33:08,645 --> 01:33:12,005
Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, Well here's here's the other thing I suppose

1594
01:33:12,045 --> 01:33:14,525
Speaker 6: I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to throw

1595
01:33:14,525 --> 01:33:17,604
Speaker 6: out there as what was for me a surprise about

1596
01:33:17,605 --> 01:33:19,685
Speaker 6: the film. I want to throw out for discussion the

1597
01:33:19,685 --> 01:33:26,525
Speaker 6: possibility of Raschoman as a feminist text, or one that

1598
01:33:26,605 --> 01:33:32,085
Speaker 6: is at least skewering fragile masculinity. And even before I

1599
01:33:32,085 --> 01:33:34,205
Speaker 6: get there, I'm also going to say, on our topic

1600
01:33:34,245 --> 01:33:37,285
Speaker 6: of unreliable narrators, how about the fact that we do

1601
01:33:37,325 --> 01:33:42,245
Speaker 6: have four different versions of events, but don't we also

1602
01:33:42,325 --> 01:33:49,684
Speaker 6: have to acknowledge that ultimately there is one meta story

1603
01:33:49,765 --> 01:33:53,485
Speaker 6: being told, and it's the story that's being told at

1604
01:33:53,525 --> 01:33:58,325
Speaker 6: the Rachoman gate. And so even the version of the

1605
01:33:58,365 --> 01:34:01,604
Speaker 6: bandit's story, the wife story and the husband story that's

1606
01:34:01,645 --> 01:34:07,965
Speaker 6: being told, is still being filtered through the woodcutter, the priest, right,

1607
01:34:08,085 --> 01:34:10,564
Speaker 6: or what that character is like like, it's still their

1608
01:34:10,725 --> 01:34:14,604
Speaker 6: version of what they saw or what they heard. It's

1609
01:34:14,645 --> 01:34:18,684
Speaker 6: not really completely there is either, So there's potential flaws

1610
01:34:18,725 --> 01:34:22,365
Speaker 6: and subjectivity even in there and versions of those stories.

1611
01:34:22,485 --> 01:34:25,285
Speaker 6: But what is interesting, and of course this is the

1612
01:34:25,645 --> 01:34:29,045
Speaker 6: I'm not breaking any ground here with this, but I

1613
01:34:29,125 --> 01:34:31,885
Speaker 6: want to use this as a springboard here. The thing

1614
01:34:31,885 --> 01:34:34,725
Speaker 6: about Raschamn, right, it's not that they recall events that

1615
01:34:34,765 --> 01:34:38,445
Speaker 6: they were involved in differently. It's that they recall events

1616
01:34:38,485 --> 01:34:42,644
Speaker 6: they were involved in differently because, as you spoke to already,

1617
01:34:43,085 --> 01:34:49,245
Speaker 6: their versions protect their sense of self and restore or elevate.

1618
01:34:49,805 --> 01:34:53,045
Speaker 6: But for the most part, restore their honor. And what

1619
01:34:53,125 --> 01:34:56,765
Speaker 6: I found ironic, Josh, is that if you remove for

1620
01:34:56,805 --> 01:35:00,564
Speaker 6: a second the abhorrent crime of rape at the center

1621
01:35:00,605 --> 01:35:03,205
Speaker 6: of this story, not because I want to, but because

1622
01:35:03,245 --> 01:35:08,125
Speaker 6: the characters within the story do, they set it aside completely,

1623
01:35:08,565 --> 01:35:11,805
Speaker 6: almost completely, in favor of apparently the far more egregious

1624
01:35:11,805 --> 01:35:15,965
Speaker 6: crime of killing the husband. Protecting their sense of self

1625
01:35:16,045 --> 01:35:20,844
Speaker 6: and restoring their honor actually means taking responsible for the killing.

1626
01:35:21,525 --> 01:35:24,285
Speaker 6: That just strikes me as interesting because if you think

1627
01:35:24,285 --> 01:35:27,764
Speaker 6: about it, Taja Maru says, the bandit says he kills

1628
01:35:27,805 --> 01:35:32,085
Speaker 6: the samurai. He claims that he kills him in that

1629
01:35:32,205 --> 01:35:35,285
Speaker 6: honorable battle that you spoke about after cutting him loose

1630
01:35:35,765 --> 01:35:38,885
Speaker 6: man de man battle. It was a throwdown and it

1631
01:35:38,925 --> 01:35:43,045
Speaker 6: was amazing, But I won. I killed him because I'm

1632
01:35:43,365 --> 01:35:44,845
Speaker 6: I'm a bigger badass than he is.

1633
01:35:45,245 --> 01:35:46,405
Speaker 7: Yeah, the wife.

1634
01:35:46,485 --> 01:35:50,604
Speaker 6: Says, Even though she does say she doesn't really remember

1635
01:35:50,685 --> 01:35:54,165
Speaker 6: doing it and she fainted, she basically says I did it.

1636
01:35:54,285 --> 01:35:57,085
Speaker 6: And she says she did it because her husband stared

1637
01:35:57,085 --> 01:36:02,085
Speaker 6: at her with contempt, he shamed her unfairly obviously, and

1638
01:36:02,165 --> 01:36:05,445
Speaker 6: between that and then trying to drown herself later even

1639
01:36:05,485 --> 01:36:09,525
Speaker 6: though she failed, she was driven in both acts by

1640
01:36:09,565 --> 01:36:14,245
Speaker 6: honor by trying to reclaim some honor. The husband then

1641
01:36:14,325 --> 01:36:17,405
Speaker 6: says also that he killed himself, because what is a

1642
01:36:17,445 --> 01:36:19,804
Speaker 6: husband to do now that his wife has been so shamed.

1643
01:36:20,005 --> 01:36:24,285
Speaker 6: So all three cases, you know, they claim responsibility, but

1644
01:36:24,325 --> 01:36:27,525
Speaker 6: it's all about serving their honor, even though that's the crime.

1645
01:36:28,205 --> 01:36:30,845
Speaker 6: So it's just interesting to me. But if you ask

1646
01:36:30,925 --> 01:36:34,765
Speaker 6: the question, does Krasawa give us at any point, does

1647
01:36:34,765 --> 01:36:38,085
Speaker 6: he actually give us an objective truth? Like is there

1648
01:36:38,165 --> 01:36:42,485
Speaker 6: an overarching true version that we don't ever get? Do

1649
01:36:42,565 --> 01:36:44,205
Speaker 6: we still by the end of the movie know what

1650
01:36:44,365 --> 01:36:47,165
Speaker 6: really happened? Or do we just know the three versions

1651
01:36:47,165 --> 01:36:50,965
Speaker 6: and the Woodcutter's version, or is the Woodcutter's version supposed

1652
01:36:51,005 --> 01:36:53,405
Speaker 6: to supposed to be true? Well, we know it's false,

1653
01:36:53,445 --> 01:36:56,245
Speaker 6: and at least one regard right because he gets called

1654
01:36:56,245 --> 01:36:59,724
Speaker 6: out for that he took the dagger. He lied about

1655
01:36:59,725 --> 01:37:03,245
Speaker 6: that he wasn't killed by the sword, He was killed

1656
01:37:03,245 --> 01:37:06,604
Speaker 6: by a dagger, and he took the dagger. And this, Josh,

1657
01:37:06,645 --> 01:37:10,884
Speaker 6: was my favorite shot watching it this time, I definitely

1658
01:37:10,885 --> 01:37:13,125
Speaker 6: did not remember this and my favorite shot in this movie.

1659
01:37:13,125 --> 01:37:18,005
Speaker 6: How great is the match action cut we get from

1660
01:37:18,045 --> 01:37:20,125
Speaker 6: I think it might be if I missed it. Someone

1661
01:37:20,125 --> 01:37:21,805
Speaker 6: could call me out on it, but it might be

1662
01:37:21,845 --> 01:37:26,485
Speaker 6: the only true shot we get where Kurosawa very blatantly

1663
01:37:27,285 --> 01:37:31,285
Speaker 6: makes it clear that it's the woodcutter's point of view.

1664
01:37:32,245 --> 01:37:35,125
Speaker 6: It's the shot he's he's in the he's behind trees

1665
01:37:35,565 --> 01:37:38,445
Speaker 6: and is he's behind trees, and he is watching this

1666
01:37:38,565 --> 01:37:42,805
Speaker 6: all play out, right, And so before he goes to

1667
01:37:42,925 --> 01:37:47,685
Speaker 6: kill the husband, supposedly right, the band it's standing in

1668
01:37:47,725 --> 01:37:50,684
Speaker 6: the middle, and we know it's his point of view

1669
01:37:50,725 --> 01:37:53,005
Speaker 6: because of the way it's framed. But then there's a

1670
01:37:53,085 --> 01:37:57,005
Speaker 6: match action cut where it's now a different angle and

1671
01:37:57,045 --> 01:38:00,805
Speaker 6: we're back into the movie world point of view, and

1672
01:38:00,805 --> 01:38:03,845
Speaker 6: and in that new point of view, we see that

1673
01:38:04,525 --> 01:38:08,005
Speaker 6: the woodcutter can't actually see the husband. The husband doesn't

1674
01:38:08,045 --> 01:38:12,245
Speaker 6: know exactly what happened. The woodcutter doesn't see the husband die.

1675
01:38:12,805 --> 01:38:15,405
Speaker 6: He doesn't he can't see it from where he's From

1676
01:38:15,405 --> 01:38:20,165
Speaker 6: where he's at, that's that's shuddered to him. So then

1677
01:38:20,325 --> 01:38:24,445
Speaker 6: we don't don't actually see the act either. In that moment,

1678
01:38:24,685 --> 01:38:28,125
Speaker 6: we don't see the bandit kill the husband because the

1679
01:38:28,125 --> 01:38:31,805
Speaker 6: woodcutter doesn't see it. So you know, here he's at

1680
01:38:31,885 --> 01:38:36,684
Speaker 6: least partially unreliable because he lied right, And he also

1681
01:38:36,845 --> 01:38:39,805
Speaker 6: doesn't actually know exactly what happened to the husband because

1682
01:38:39,805 --> 01:38:43,965
Speaker 6: he didn't see it completely unfold. But that cut and

1683
01:38:44,005 --> 01:38:46,885
Speaker 6: that point of viewshot I think are really remarkable. Here's

1684
01:38:46,925 --> 01:38:49,485
Speaker 6: another question I'll throw out. What about the fact that

1685
01:38:49,525 --> 01:38:53,325
Speaker 6: the woodcutter, in terms of just unreliability and honor, what

1686
01:38:53,365 --> 01:38:55,365
Speaker 6: about the fact that the woodcutter is just a voyeur

1687
01:38:57,045 --> 01:39:01,525
Speaker 6: who does nothing. He watches all of this madness play out,

1688
01:39:01,725 --> 01:39:04,564
Speaker 6: all of this pain play out, and doesn't do anything.

1689
01:39:05,085 --> 01:39:08,005
Speaker 7: How are we supposed to interpret that about his character?

1690
01:39:08,645 --> 01:39:12,085
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder for that, I wonder if it was

1691
01:39:12,205 --> 01:39:15,365
Speaker 1: more I get the sense from this film and a

1692
01:39:15,405 --> 01:39:18,125
Speaker 1: lot of films set in this period, if it's a

1693
01:39:18,165 --> 01:39:21,885
Speaker 1: societal role thing where you just you do not cross

1694
01:39:22,405 --> 01:39:24,605
Speaker 1: you know that what was happening in that Obviously the

1695
01:39:24,645 --> 01:39:28,485
Speaker 1: bandit is crossing societal roles. But that's why he's a bandit, right,

1696
01:39:28,565 --> 01:39:30,925
Speaker 1: you know, And so maybe the Woodcutter just would not

1697
01:39:31,085 --> 01:39:33,684
Speaker 1: step into that realm. But right, Yeah, that's a good question.

1698
01:39:33,725 --> 01:39:34,684
Speaker 7: It's entirely possible.

1699
01:39:34,725 --> 01:39:38,645
Speaker 6: But so back to the question of is there is

1700
01:39:38,685 --> 01:39:42,564
Speaker 6: there a single objective version of truth here? And I

1701
01:39:42,565 --> 01:39:45,245
Speaker 6: think you could argue that it is probably the Woodcutter's

1702
01:39:45,245 --> 01:39:48,885
Speaker 6: account minus the part about the dagger, and not just

1703
01:39:49,005 --> 01:39:51,485
Speaker 6: because it's the last one we hear, and because the

1704
01:39:51,525 --> 01:39:56,925
Speaker 6: movie obviously ultimately is sympathetic to that character, to Shimura's character.

1705
01:39:57,645 --> 01:40:03,604
Speaker 6: But the commoner who's played by kitchizuru Uweita, he asks,

1706
01:40:03,645 --> 01:40:06,205
Speaker 6: I think the crucial question of the movie. He says,

1707
01:40:07,045 --> 01:40:10,325
Speaker 6: out of these three, whose story is believable?

1708
01:40:10,925 --> 01:40:11,285
Speaker 7: Okay?

1709
01:40:11,565 --> 01:40:14,564
Speaker 6: And and for me, Josh that question so before he's

1710
01:40:14,565 --> 01:40:17,205
Speaker 6: even heard you know, the Woodcutter. That's kind of like

1711
01:40:17,245 --> 01:40:20,245
Speaker 6: Okham's raisor right, whenever you're presented with the situation that

1712
01:40:20,245 --> 01:40:21,765
Speaker 6: doesn't make sense, and you got to figure out an

1713
01:40:21,765 --> 01:40:26,045
Speaker 6: explanation like which one requires the fewest assumptions, which one

1714
01:40:26,085 --> 01:40:29,245
Speaker 6: seems the most believable, just based on the fewest amount

1715
01:40:29,245 --> 01:40:32,005
Speaker 6: of hoops to jump through and the fewest amount of

1716
01:40:32,085 --> 01:40:35,165
Speaker 6: things that had to occur, those assumptions that had to

1717
01:40:35,525 --> 01:40:39,085
Speaker 6: all play out. And in all the previous accounts, the

1718
01:40:39,125 --> 01:40:42,045
Speaker 6: three previous accounts that we heard, not only do those

1719
01:40:42,125 --> 01:40:45,805
Speaker 6: all have those elements of redemption for the storyteller, right,

1720
01:40:45,925 --> 01:40:50,245
Speaker 6: which is huge and undercuts their story. There are choices

1721
01:40:50,325 --> 01:40:53,165
Speaker 6: throughout all three of them, that just seem out of

1722
01:40:53,205 --> 01:40:57,365
Speaker 6: touch with human nature, whereas in the Woodcutter story, I

1723
01:40:57,365 --> 01:41:00,725
Speaker 6: think everything checks out at least for me. Okay, So,

1724
01:41:00,885 --> 01:41:06,285
Speaker 6: like the bandit after the act proclaiming that he'll marry her,

1725
01:41:07,045 --> 01:41:11,645
Speaker 6: her breaking free, and her instinct being to release her

1726
01:41:11,725 --> 01:41:15,325
Speaker 6: husband and wanting the husband to then defend her honor

1727
01:41:15,725 --> 01:41:18,965
Speaker 6: and kill the bandit, that seems logical to me.

1728
01:41:19,485 --> 01:41:21,365
Speaker 7: The husband.

1729
01:41:22,645 --> 01:41:26,125
Speaker 6: Not defending her in this time and place and instead

1730
01:41:26,205 --> 01:41:31,005
Speaker 6: thinking she's no use to him anymore because he's so

1731
01:41:31,245 --> 01:41:34,605
Speaker 6: shamed because of her shame, as absurd as that is,

1732
01:41:35,005 --> 01:41:38,365
Speaker 6: and not wanting her, and then the bandit seeing that

1733
01:41:38,525 --> 01:41:41,205
Speaker 6: and thinking, well, if if he doesn't see any value

1734
01:41:41,205 --> 01:41:43,564
Speaker 6: in her, then I don't see any value in her,

1735
01:41:43,885 --> 01:41:46,725
Speaker 6: and kind of retracting his promise to marry her. And

1736
01:41:46,765 --> 01:41:49,925
Speaker 6: then her response to all of that is to taunt them,

1737
01:41:50,365 --> 01:41:54,485
Speaker 6: right and and like demanding, demanding that they fight for

1738
01:41:54,525 --> 01:41:57,564
Speaker 6: her and actually like trying to claim some some honor.

1739
01:41:57,605 --> 01:42:00,405
Speaker 6: And then here's the key, Josh, you said it that fight,

1740
01:42:01,005 --> 01:42:07,085
Speaker 6: that that like clumsy fight that they have with each other. Okay,

1741
01:42:07,525 --> 01:42:13,564
Speaker 6: both men in this case act deplorably, but one acts

1742
01:42:13,605 --> 01:42:17,045
Speaker 6: like a bandit like a notorious bandit would one acts

1743
01:42:17,125 --> 01:42:20,604
Speaker 6: like a man would in a completely male dominated society.

1744
01:42:20,805 --> 01:42:26,285
Speaker 6: I think the woman acts justifiably irrationally, like someone who

1745
01:42:26,325 --> 01:42:30,685
Speaker 6: has just suffered a sexual assault might write. And then

1746
01:42:30,725 --> 01:42:32,205
Speaker 6: I go back, you said it, I go back to

1747
01:42:32,285 --> 01:42:35,325
Speaker 6: Drunken Angel. Why make a movie set in twelfth century

1748
01:42:35,365 --> 01:42:40,925
Speaker 6: Japan if you aren't intending to comment on conditions today

1749
01:42:41,205 --> 01:42:45,085
Speaker 6: in nineteen fifty Japan, right, and twelfth century Japan is

1750
01:42:45,085 --> 01:42:49,405
Speaker 6: when feudalism emerged. And during our conversation about Drunken Angel,

1751
01:42:49,405 --> 01:42:53,005
Speaker 6: I referenced the Criterion essay that talked about trying to

1752
01:42:53,245 --> 01:42:56,125
Speaker 6: wrestle with the war and the aftermath of the war

1753
01:42:56,245 --> 01:43:01,205
Speaker 6: and the militarists and this feudalistic warrior tradition of male

1754
01:43:01,285 --> 01:43:06,365
Speaker 6: domination and sacrificing for samurai honor. This is what Krasawa's

1755
01:43:06,405 --> 01:43:11,005
Speaker 6: wrestling with. You know this, this idea, And you have

1756
01:43:11,685 --> 01:43:15,604
Speaker 6: the characters in Drunken Angel, those men who he depicts,

1757
01:43:16,005 --> 01:43:20,925
Speaker 6: these tough, gangster characters who act like children fighting each other.

1758
01:43:21,285 --> 01:43:25,085
Speaker 6: It's comical how they actually fight each other. We laugh

1759
01:43:25,125 --> 01:43:28,045
Speaker 6: at them as viewers, and we laugh at these two

1760
01:43:28,085 --> 01:43:32,005
Speaker 6: men the exact same way. It's the complete opposite of

1761
01:43:32,125 --> 01:43:37,365
Speaker 6: any kind of virile display of masculinity. And I just

1762
01:43:37,485 --> 01:43:43,245
Speaker 6: think I think Carasawa intends for us to laugh at them,

1763
01:43:43,365 --> 01:43:46,085
Speaker 6: and I think Cursaw was asking us to align with

1764
01:43:46,125 --> 01:43:50,445
Speaker 6: the outrage of the wife in that final version. And

1765
01:43:50,485 --> 01:43:54,045
Speaker 6: I also think, Josh, for me, I'm predisposed to this

1766
01:43:54,085 --> 01:43:56,365
Speaker 6: a little bit, or I'm aligning with this version of

1767
01:43:56,365 --> 01:43:59,885
Speaker 6: events or how I see it, because one of the

1768
01:43:59,885 --> 01:44:04,045
Speaker 6: most striking images, lasting images, that I'll take away from

1769
01:44:04,045 --> 01:44:07,805
Speaker 6: this viewing of Raschoman is in her version of the

1770
01:44:07,805 --> 01:44:14,085
Speaker 6: story that look he gives her and her covering of

1771
01:44:14,085 --> 01:44:17,845
Speaker 6: her eyes. You know, just that that image of her

1772
01:44:18,205 --> 01:44:21,685
Speaker 6: shielding herself. Whether it happened exactly like that or not,

1773
01:44:22,445 --> 01:44:25,564
Speaker 6: in every one of these stories, she still is in

1774
01:44:25,605 --> 01:44:30,045
Speaker 6: a position. One universal truth is that woman having to

1775
01:44:30,645 --> 01:44:35,045
Speaker 6: is being not only objectified but violated and then having

1776
01:44:35,085 --> 01:44:40,405
Speaker 6: to somehow still defend her honor right. And that that

1777
01:44:40,605 --> 01:44:43,245
Speaker 6: image of her covering her eyes as if she's trying

1778
01:44:43,245 --> 01:44:49,045
Speaker 6: to shield herself from the judgment of the men, that that,

1779
01:44:49,165 --> 01:44:51,205
Speaker 6: to me is like the lasting image of this film.

1780
01:44:51,565 --> 01:44:55,205
Speaker 1: Yeah, I Machico Kio playing the wife, and you know,

1781
01:44:55,285 --> 01:44:58,405
Speaker 1: all these performances again, as we talked about in our

1782
01:44:58,405 --> 01:45:01,325
Speaker 1: top five list having to work and at least double levels,

1783
01:45:01,485 --> 01:45:05,925
Speaker 1: right if there are movies about deception or unreliable narrators.

1784
01:45:06,405 --> 01:45:08,564
Speaker 1: I was wondering about that too. You know, this is

1785
01:45:08,685 --> 01:45:12,085
Speaker 1: obviously being set in this time and place, a culture

1786
01:45:12,085 --> 01:45:15,285
Speaker 1: of extreme victim blaming. What happens to this woman, and

1787
01:45:15,325 --> 01:45:17,845
Speaker 1: then the discussions of you know, how it is it

1788
01:45:17,925 --> 01:45:20,365
Speaker 1: is her shame, what they've essentially done to her, what

1789
01:45:20,405 --> 01:45:23,405
Speaker 1: the band is under her? And I was thinking, you know, well,

1790
01:45:23,445 --> 01:45:27,645
Speaker 1: how does that transfer to these movies that curs I

1791
01:45:27,805 --> 01:45:32,564
Speaker 1: was also making set in the present contemporary times, And yeah,

1792
01:45:32,565 --> 01:45:35,205
Speaker 1: I think you're onto something there. Is it's the machismo,

1793
01:45:35,365 --> 01:45:39,845
Speaker 1: it's the you know, that is being exposed in both

1794
01:45:39,925 --> 01:45:43,684
Speaker 1: times and places. And certainly victim blaming did not go away,

1795
01:45:43,805 --> 01:45:47,085
Speaker 1: you know it. It maybe didn't doesn't take place or

1796
01:45:47,165 --> 01:45:50,205
Speaker 1: in mid century didn't take place in the same blatant

1797
01:45:50,245 --> 01:45:54,564
Speaker 1: way it might have in this more time way further

1798
01:45:54,605 --> 01:45:57,725
Speaker 1: in the past, but it's still a reality, and it's

1799
01:45:57,765 --> 01:46:02,765
Speaker 1: built in that same macho, you know, chauvinistic society. So

1800
01:46:02,805 --> 01:46:06,085
Speaker 1: I think that's one thing that's being critiqued here for sure.

1801
01:46:06,245 --> 01:46:08,564
Speaker 1: I also think to your point, about what is the

1802
01:46:08,565 --> 01:46:14,005
Speaker 1: objective truth the movie wants us to assume. Another piece

1803
01:46:14,005 --> 01:46:16,725
Speaker 1: of evidence why we should believe for the most part,

1804
01:46:16,765 --> 01:46:20,685
Speaker 1: the Woodcutter is that, as in Drunken Angel Curse, I

1805
01:46:20,685 --> 01:46:24,005
Speaker 1: Will wants a maybe not a hero, not a perfect

1806
01:46:24,885 --> 01:46:29,604
Speaker 1: heroic figure, but someone who does the honorable moral thing.

1807
01:46:29,885 --> 01:46:33,325
Speaker 1: And where does the movie end with the Woodcutter claiming

1808
01:46:34,045 --> 01:46:37,844
Speaker 1: the baby who has been abandoned? Right, So that's another signal.

1809
01:46:37,965 --> 01:46:41,445
Speaker 1: I feel like that this is a man who's not perfect.

1810
01:46:42,365 --> 01:46:47,325
Speaker 1: He obviously, like everyone, is not telling the complete story,

1811
01:46:47,405 --> 01:46:50,445
Speaker 1: but his story may be the closest to the truth

1812
01:46:50,485 --> 01:46:52,965
Speaker 1: that we're going to get, and it's the most honorable,

1813
01:46:53,685 --> 01:46:56,405
Speaker 1: truly honorable, not in the sense of honor that as

1814
01:46:56,445 --> 01:46:59,724
Speaker 1: you describe the characters are searching in this time and place.

1815
01:47:00,325 --> 01:47:03,365
Speaker 1: Complicating this though, Adam is, I'm so glad you brought

1816
01:47:03,445 --> 01:47:07,925
Speaker 1: up the medium played by Narko Hamah, which how about

1817
01:47:08,245 --> 01:47:10,805
Speaker 1: the performance in that sequence? I mean, this is like

1818
01:47:11,325 --> 01:47:15,725
Speaker 1: performance art that Hamma is giving us. It reminded me

1819
01:47:15,965 --> 01:47:19,125
Speaker 1: very much of Catherine Hunter's Witch in Joel Cohen's The

1820
01:47:19,165 --> 01:47:23,085
Speaker 1: Tragedy of Macbeth. And of course we know Crosala would

1821
01:47:23,285 --> 01:47:26,325
Speaker 1: adapt Macbeth as Throne of Blood in nineteen fifty seven.

1822
01:47:27,165 --> 01:47:32,005
Speaker 1: But just this creating some a body that seems to

1823
01:47:32,045 --> 01:47:36,005
Speaker 1: truly be from another world and then filtering, in this case,

1824
01:47:36,165 --> 01:47:39,564
Speaker 1: another body through it, which is the dead husband. I

1825
01:47:39,605 --> 01:47:47,005
Speaker 1: think it's also just intensely complicated in how it gives

1826
01:47:47,085 --> 01:47:51,684
Speaker 1: us another level of unreliability, because are we to take

1827
01:47:52,565 --> 01:47:56,045
Speaker 1: the dead husband at his word because he's dead? No?

1828
01:47:56,125 --> 01:47:58,045
Speaker 1: We you know, we already talked about that. He's just

1829
01:47:58,085 --> 01:48:01,285
Speaker 1: as unreliable as the others. But just as you said,

1830
01:48:01,565 --> 01:48:06,005
Speaker 1: think about the meta level of unreliability of we're hearing

1831
01:48:06,085 --> 01:48:10,725
Speaker 1: all of these eyewitness reports secondhand. Can we trust the medium?

1832
01:48:11,165 --> 01:48:13,604
Speaker 1: Is she translating the dead husband accurately?

1833
01:48:13,685 --> 01:48:14,445
Speaker 7: It's another layer.

1834
01:48:15,005 --> 01:48:16,245
Speaker 1: Is she translating at all?

1835
01:48:16,685 --> 01:48:17,205
Speaker 5: Is is she?

1836
01:48:17,485 --> 01:48:20,085
Speaker 1: I don't know how this works? Like this her job?

1837
01:48:20,405 --> 01:48:25,205
Speaker 1: Does she get? She hangs out at the needs a witness,

1838
01:48:25,605 --> 01:48:29,005
Speaker 1: and who knows what her motivation is. So not only

1839
01:48:29,045 --> 01:48:32,924
Speaker 1: is this, you know, a dramatically arresting and visually arresting sequence,

1840
01:48:33,005 --> 01:48:35,685
Speaker 1: I think it just kind of like starts piling up

1841
01:48:35,725 --> 01:48:38,365
Speaker 1: more levels of unreliability as well.

1842
01:48:38,845 --> 01:48:41,805
Speaker 6: Yeah, a couple other just points I wanted to touch on,

1843
01:48:41,885 --> 01:48:45,405
Speaker 6: really quickly, and it goes with what you just said, actually,

1844
01:48:46,085 --> 01:48:50,325
Speaker 6: because I think Krasawa also plays tricks on us a

1845
01:48:50,325 --> 01:48:54,205
Speaker 6: little bit within some of the narratives, within some of

1846
01:48:54,245 --> 01:48:59,165
Speaker 6: the retellings of this from certain perspectives, For example, within

1847
01:48:59,765 --> 01:49:06,245
Speaker 6: the Bandits retelling of the story, when we understand why

1848
01:49:06,485 --> 01:49:08,405
Speaker 6: from his point of view he would want to tell

1849
01:49:08,445 --> 01:49:12,125
Speaker 6: it in such a way where she she pushes back

1850
01:49:12,165 --> 01:49:16,685
Speaker 6: against him fiercely at first, but then succumbs. Yeah, and

1851
01:49:17,485 --> 01:49:21,685
Speaker 6: she embraces him, putting her hand behind his head and

1852
01:49:22,085 --> 01:49:25,245
Speaker 6: kisses him deeply, right against the wall. You know all

1853
01:49:25,285 --> 01:49:28,644
Speaker 6: that stuff. We get that part, But why, Josh, then

1854
01:49:29,485 --> 01:49:33,885
Speaker 6: why does Krasawa show us from her point of view

1855
01:49:35,365 --> 01:49:40,685
Speaker 6: the sun as she's looking up at the sun, she's

1856
01:49:40,845 --> 01:49:44,085
Speaker 6: while he's embracing her. Why would we see her point

1857
01:49:44,085 --> 01:49:47,564
Speaker 6: of view? That's not something that the Bandit could see

1858
01:49:47,765 --> 01:49:53,165
Speaker 6: or theoretically could even fantasize about or imagine right in

1859
01:49:53,245 --> 01:49:57,045
Speaker 6: this in this construct. So it's an odd thing. And

1860
01:49:57,525 --> 01:50:02,445
Speaker 6: it's also odd because in that scenario he is he

1861
01:50:02,525 --> 01:50:06,885
Speaker 6: is effectively assaulting her again, and what's happening there in

1862
01:50:06,885 --> 01:50:10,485
Speaker 6: that moment is not unlike something we've seen in other

1863
01:50:10,525 --> 01:50:13,445
Speaker 6: depictions of that on screen and in other scenarios we've

1864
01:50:13,485 --> 01:50:16,445
Speaker 6: heard about in real life where it's almost like she's disassociating.

1865
01:50:16,885 --> 01:50:19,604
Speaker 6: It's almost like what we see is her is her

1866
01:50:19,645 --> 01:50:22,085
Speaker 6: just giving herself over and staring up at the sun

1867
01:50:22,525 --> 01:50:25,125
Speaker 6: while he's doing that. And it's just interesting that we

1868
01:50:25,285 --> 01:50:28,285
Speaker 6: get that. But it's it's within his version of the

1869
01:50:28,285 --> 01:50:29,165
Speaker 6: telling of the story.

1870
01:50:29,565 --> 01:50:31,765
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe I think you read on it is right,

1871
01:50:31,805 --> 01:50:35,205
Speaker 1: That's how it struck me as disassociation. And maybe this

1872
01:50:35,245 --> 01:50:38,085
Speaker 1: speaks to your point about we're not getting this directly

1873
01:50:38,125 --> 01:50:40,845
Speaker 1: from the bandit. We're getting it from you know, in

1874
01:50:40,885 --> 01:50:43,644
Speaker 1: this case, the woodcutter telling what he heard the band

1875
01:50:43,645 --> 01:50:46,445
Speaker 1: it say. And maybe it's like Cutter wanted to layer

1876
01:50:46,525 --> 01:50:49,325
Speaker 1: in a bit of empathy for the woman. There you go,

1877
01:50:49,445 --> 01:50:52,405
Speaker 1: and Chris I was giving us that visually. I mean maybe.

1878
01:50:52,205 --> 01:50:53,125
Speaker 7: Maybe so right.

1879
01:50:53,525 --> 01:50:56,684
Speaker 6: Of course, the other great formal choice that Chris Awa

1880
01:50:56,685 --> 01:51:03,045
Speaker 6: makes here is never showing us and never letting us

1881
01:51:03,125 --> 01:51:05,245
Speaker 6: hear the inquisitors.

1882
01:51:05,405 --> 01:51:08,165
Speaker 1: I'm asking the question about, right, Yeah.

1883
01:51:07,845 --> 01:51:12,685
Speaker 6: What a conceit just just making it so it it

1884
01:51:12,805 --> 01:51:17,565
Speaker 6: is us, the camera, the audience who become the inquisitors,

1885
01:51:17,605 --> 01:51:20,525
Speaker 6: the ones who are asking the questions. The judges who

1886
01:51:20,525 --> 01:51:23,564
Speaker 6: are dying to know the information, who effectively are asking

1887
01:51:23,605 --> 01:51:27,724
Speaker 6: those questions of the bandits, dying to know even more information,

1888
01:51:27,885 --> 01:51:28,525
Speaker 6: right to the.

1889
01:51:28,445 --> 01:51:31,965
Speaker 1: Point that characters will say, what but we don't hear

1890
01:51:32,325 --> 01:51:35,644
Speaker 1: the question, but they respond as if so, even more

1891
01:51:35,685 --> 01:51:38,764
Speaker 1: so to your point, puts us in that judge's seat.

1892
01:51:39,285 --> 01:51:42,445
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't know totally if this matters or not,

1893
01:51:42,485 --> 01:51:44,485
Speaker 6: if there's any significance to it. It's just something that

1894
01:51:44,565 --> 01:51:48,245
Speaker 6: hit me at the last minute today. The fact that

1895
01:51:48,565 --> 01:51:52,965
Speaker 6: all of this again revolves effectively around the dead husband.

1896
01:51:54,165 --> 01:51:58,205
Speaker 6: That's the crime that matters most within this movie world.

1897
01:51:58,965 --> 01:52:02,605
Speaker 6: And how does the husband how is he positioned the

1898
01:52:02,845 --> 01:52:06,805
Speaker 6: entire film? He's that figure that has his arms tied

1899
01:52:06,805 --> 01:52:10,725
Speaker 6: behind his back or and or he's kneeling the entire time, right,

1900
01:52:10,965 --> 01:52:14,564
Speaker 6: And how do all the storytellers except the woodcutter, how

1901
01:52:14,565 --> 01:52:17,125
Speaker 6: are they positioned when they tell their stories? They're always

1902
01:52:17,165 --> 01:52:19,564
Speaker 6: in that same position, right, And the bandit has his

1903
01:52:19,685 --> 01:52:22,645
Speaker 6: arms tied similar But they all are kneeling in that

1904
01:52:22,685 --> 01:52:26,045
Speaker 6: same kind of position before the There's there's a symmetry

1905
01:52:26,045 --> 01:52:28,045
Speaker 6: there that, again I don't totally know what to do with,

1906
01:52:28,325 --> 01:52:30,804
Speaker 6: but but they're mirroring each other.

1907
01:52:31,365 --> 01:52:34,684
Speaker 1: It brings to mind just the incredible blocking throughout this movie.

1908
01:52:34,765 --> 01:52:38,845
Speaker 1: I know that's something we discussed or at least referenced

1909
01:52:39,205 --> 01:52:42,045
Speaker 1: in conversations about High and Low. You know, those early

1910
01:52:42,125 --> 01:52:44,485
Speaker 1: scenes in the apartment where the police team was there

1911
01:52:44,485 --> 01:52:48,165
Speaker 1: with the family, and how incredibly dramatic Krosawa made them

1912
01:52:48,205 --> 01:52:51,724
Speaker 1: just by positioning characters within the frame. These witness scenes,

1913
01:52:52,045 --> 01:52:54,525
Speaker 1: you know, will often have the speaker in the in

1914
01:52:54,565 --> 01:52:58,085
Speaker 1: the foreground looking right at us or just slightly off camera,

1915
01:52:58,405 --> 01:53:02,125
Speaker 1: and there's almost always a witness or two in the background,

1916
01:53:02,165 --> 01:53:05,445
Speaker 1: but position just off center a little bit. All in

1917
01:53:05,485 --> 01:53:09,525
Speaker 1: these you know, kneeling positions you describe, or sitting positions.

1918
01:53:09,965 --> 01:53:14,405
Speaker 1: But the yeah, just the blocking throughout this movie is

1919
01:53:15,165 --> 01:53:17,325
Speaker 1: exquisite and on point in every frame.

1920
01:53:17,845 --> 01:53:22,045
Speaker 6: I also love the outsized nature of it all. And

1921
01:53:22,045 --> 01:53:25,045
Speaker 6: what I mean is, think about how we're introduced to

1922
01:53:26,325 --> 01:53:30,684
Speaker 6: these characters, the lowly characters, who we know are lowly

1923
01:53:30,805 --> 01:53:32,245
Speaker 6: characters from the very beginning.

1924
01:53:32,285 --> 01:53:33,645
Speaker 7: The way they're depicted.

1925
01:53:33,605 --> 01:53:36,965
Speaker 6: Part of the part of the reason we know they're lowly, though, Josh,

1926
01:53:37,085 --> 01:53:41,644
Speaker 6: isn't just their clothes and and their appearance. It's it's

1927
01:53:41,685 --> 01:53:47,365
Speaker 6: how they're they're so dwarfed by the Raschoman Gate and

1928
01:53:47,405 --> 01:53:51,765
Speaker 6: the way Krasa films the Rachomn Gate. The size of

1929
01:53:51,805 --> 01:53:56,085
Speaker 6: the temple in relation to the men is just so striking.

1930
01:53:56,245 --> 01:53:59,724
Speaker 6: And then even the rain itself, the rain isn't rain.

1931
01:54:00,045 --> 01:54:02,925
Speaker 6: The rain is like biblical in this movie. Right, it

1932
01:54:02,965 --> 01:54:06,805
Speaker 6: looks biblical, it sounds biblical, and of course it only

1933
01:54:06,965 --> 01:54:10,725
Speaker 6: ends at a point when we finally get some moral clarity. Right,

1934
01:54:10,845 --> 01:54:13,525
Speaker 6: That's that's the kind of level we're dealing with in Raschoman.

1935
01:54:14,365 --> 01:54:16,965
Speaker 6: It's it's the scale that Kurosaw was working. And from

1936
01:54:16,965 --> 01:54:19,965
Speaker 6: the beginning, the way they're selling this story before we

1937
01:54:20,005 --> 01:54:23,445
Speaker 6: as viewers have even the commoner who's our surrogate, before

1938
01:54:23,485 --> 01:54:26,725
Speaker 6: we've even gotten into the story, they're setting this up

1939
01:54:26,845 --> 01:54:31,165
Speaker 6: like it's what we saw will make you lose all

1940
01:54:31,205 --> 01:54:34,005
Speaker 6: your faith in humanity if those are the words. It's

1941
01:54:34,045 --> 01:54:37,965
Speaker 6: worse than famine or plague. And you're going and build up.

1942
01:54:39,645 --> 01:54:41,565
Speaker 6: Could it possibly live up to the hype?

1943
01:54:41,565 --> 01:54:43,805
Speaker 7: And you know what, Kursawa pulls it off?

1944
01:54:44,285 --> 01:54:47,525
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna say he sets a high bar there,

1945
01:54:47,565 --> 01:54:50,245
Speaker 1: but I think, yes, I think we're equally despairing. As

1946
01:54:50,645 --> 01:54:52,365
Speaker 1: the movie goes on and part of it is that

1947
01:54:52,405 --> 01:54:55,405
Speaker 1: backdrop of the gate, you know, just that it's in

1948
01:54:55,485 --> 01:55:00,725
Speaker 1: complete disrepair, crumbled. It's the symbol for humanity itself in

1949
01:55:00,805 --> 01:55:04,205
Speaker 1: this crumbled, despairing state, which the weather, as you said,

1950
01:55:04,325 --> 01:55:05,085
Speaker 1: mirrors as well.

1951
01:55:05,605 --> 01:55:05,845
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1952
01:55:06,365 --> 01:55:10,005
Speaker 6: Less point when we go from that time and place

1953
01:55:10,205 --> 01:55:15,125
Speaker 6: the beginning fully into the past, we'd finally dive into

1954
01:55:15,125 --> 01:55:20,565
Speaker 6: that story. The cut from the rain and the sound

1955
01:55:20,605 --> 01:55:23,045
Speaker 6: of the rain to the sun and the absence of

1956
01:55:23,085 --> 01:55:26,125
Speaker 6: the sound of the rain, right, and we get some drums,

1957
01:55:26,165 --> 01:55:29,285
Speaker 6: and we get the sound of the woods. The disparity

1958
01:55:29,565 --> 01:55:33,485
Speaker 6: and the difference right between that world going in immediately

1959
01:55:33,525 --> 01:55:36,085
Speaker 6: to this world, and it feeling truly like we've thrust

1960
01:55:36,165 --> 01:55:38,325
Speaker 6: into some kind of different realm. And it's all just

1961
01:55:38,365 --> 01:55:42,365
Speaker 6: because of the It's largely just because of the sound.

1962
01:55:42,645 --> 01:55:45,765
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm glad you mentioned the drums, because I

1963
01:55:45,805 --> 01:55:49,605
Speaker 1: did want to call out the score as well. Fumio Hayasaka.

1964
01:55:49,645 --> 01:55:54,765
Speaker 1: It has this sort of propulsion, just slow propulsion to it,

1965
01:55:54,845 --> 01:55:58,165
Speaker 1: like we're leading towards somewhere and we don't even it

1966
01:55:58,205 --> 01:56:00,765
Speaker 1: doesn't even feel like we're leading toward a revelation. I

1967
01:56:00,765 --> 01:56:03,205
Speaker 1: mean to a larger question of what's the objective truth.

1968
01:56:03,685 --> 01:56:06,325
Speaker 1: Part of you feels like we're we aren't ever going

1969
01:56:06,365 --> 01:56:09,565
Speaker 1: to get to it because human nature is so naughty

1970
01:56:09,565 --> 01:56:15,245
Speaker 1: and complicated and duplicitous. But there's an inexorable forward thrust

1971
01:56:15,285 --> 01:56:19,165
Speaker 1: to the score and those drums that drags us along

1972
01:56:19,685 --> 01:56:22,405
Speaker 1: as well through each air that I really liked.

1973
01:56:22,845 --> 01:56:26,805
Speaker 6: Raschaman is currently streaming on the Criterion Channel and HBO Max.

1974
01:56:27,085 --> 01:56:31,405
Speaker 6: It's also available VOD and maybe it's your local library.

1975
01:56:31,525 --> 01:56:32,445
Speaker 7: Why not check it out?

1976
01:56:32,765 --> 01:56:36,845
Speaker 6: One more Pantheon review to get to it is well,

1977
01:56:36,925 --> 01:56:39,325
Speaker 6: we're not going to stop the bleakness, are we? Josh,

1978
01:56:39,365 --> 01:56:41,165
Speaker 6: I don't know. Is there there's hope at the end

1979
01:56:41,205 --> 01:56:43,845
Speaker 6: of Rashomon? Is there hope at the end of Meek's Cutoff?

1980
01:56:44,285 --> 01:56:45,045
Speaker 6: It's been a while.

1981
01:56:45,725 --> 01:56:48,245
Speaker 1: We'll have to discuss. Depends how you read it. I think,

1982
01:56:48,645 --> 01:56:50,445
Speaker 1: I guess probably not.

1983
01:56:51,245 --> 01:56:51,645
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1984
01:56:51,805 --> 01:56:56,645
Speaker 6: It's turning fifteen this year and Meek's Cutoff is currently

1985
01:56:56,685 --> 01:57:00,605
Speaker 6: streaming on Mobe and Peacock, also available VOD if you

1986
01:57:00,645 --> 01:57:02,725
Speaker 6: have homework to do and you do have some time.

1987
01:57:02,965 --> 01:57:05,685
Speaker 6: We have such a busy show calendar here over the

1988
01:57:05,765 --> 01:57:07,565
Speaker 6: next few weeks that we are not going to get

1989
01:57:07,565 --> 01:57:11,605
Speaker 6: to that conversation about Meek's cutoff for at least two shows.

1990
01:57:11,605 --> 01:57:13,645
Speaker 6: I think it's going to be three shows actually before

1991
01:57:13,685 --> 01:57:16,245
Speaker 6: we fit that in. So you have some time and

1992
01:57:16,285 --> 01:57:19,245
Speaker 6: you can find more information about the Film Spotting Pantheon

1993
01:57:19,525 --> 01:57:24,245
Speaker 6: at filmspotting dot net slash pantheon Josh, that is our show.

1994
01:57:24,685 --> 01:57:26,885
Speaker 1: If you would like to connect with Adam and the

1995
01:57:26,925 --> 01:57:31,765
Speaker 1: show on social media, he's on Instagram, Facebook, letterbox, and YouTube.

1996
01:57:32,445 --> 01:57:35,245
Speaker 1: As film Spotting, I'm at those places as well as

1997
01:57:35,325 --> 01:57:40,245
Speaker 1: Larsen on film We are independently produced and listener supported.

1998
01:57:40,365 --> 01:57:42,565
Speaker 1: You can support the show by joining the film Spotting

1999
01:57:42,605 --> 01:57:46,085
Speaker 1: Family at film spottingfamily dot com. You'll be able to

2000
01:57:46,125 --> 01:57:49,685
Speaker 1: listen early and ad free. You'll also get a weekly newsletter,

2001
01:57:49,885 --> 01:57:53,965
Speaker 1: monthly bonus episodes, and access to the entire show archive.

2002
01:57:54,365 --> 01:57:56,525
Speaker 1: For show t shirts at other merch go to film

2003
01:57:56,605 --> 01:57:58,965
Speaker 1: spotting dot net slash shop.

2004
01:57:59,525 --> 01:58:03,245
Speaker 6: In the film Spotting archive, you can check out last

2005
01:58:03,245 --> 01:58:05,725
Speaker 6: month's bonus show if you're a film Spotting Family member,

2006
01:58:05,925 --> 01:58:09,845
Speaker 6: that Drunken Angel Conversation or the Stray Dog Conversation. July

2007
01:58:09,965 --> 01:58:13,245
Speaker 6: twenty twenty, Josh, we did seven Samurai so yeah, a

2008
01:58:13,285 --> 01:58:16,525
Speaker 6: lot of Krasawa Hey family members and all those cases

2009
01:58:16,685 --> 01:58:19,645
Speaker 6: voted for that, so we're striving the people what they want. Yup,

2010
01:58:19,725 --> 01:58:22,565
Speaker 6: you know it's true, they want Krosawa And yeah, it

2011
01:58:22,605 --> 01:58:24,445
Speaker 6: was two thousand and nine, it turns out was that

2012
01:58:24,525 --> 01:58:28,805
Speaker 6: Kirosawa marathon back before you joined the show. In limited release,

2013
01:58:28,845 --> 01:58:32,285
Speaker 6: there is a four K restoration of Satura Raised nineteen

2014
01:58:32,405 --> 01:58:35,085
Speaker 6: seventy film Days and Nights in the Forest that's playing

2015
01:58:35,085 --> 01:58:37,485
Speaker 6: at the Cisco Film Center, and Josh, at this point

2016
01:58:37,525 --> 01:58:40,205
Speaker 6: we both wish we were in Chicago to see.

2017
01:58:40,045 --> 01:58:42,805
Speaker 1: Get it one blind Spot, I think for both of us.

2018
01:58:42,925 --> 01:58:43,725
Speaker 7: M Yeah.

2019
01:58:44,165 --> 01:58:47,765
Speaker 6: In wide release, scientists have discovered how to hop human

2020
01:58:47,845 --> 01:58:52,965
Speaker 6: consciousness into lifelike robotic animals, allowing people to communicate with

2021
01:58:53,045 --> 01:58:56,565
Speaker 6: animals as animals. That's in Pixar's Hoppers.

2022
01:58:57,285 --> 01:59:01,365
Speaker 1: Pixar, how about that was not even aware new Pixar.

2023
01:59:01,565 --> 01:59:04,565
Speaker 1: Obviously it doesn't necessarily mean what it used to. But

2024
01:59:04,725 --> 01:59:07,325
Speaker 1: I think I'm still gonna have to check this out.

2025
01:59:07,565 --> 01:59:09,765
Speaker 6: See, I didn't read the Pixar part at first. I

2026
01:59:09,805 --> 01:59:13,165
Speaker 6: just saw below it Melia Jovovic and that really seemed

2027
01:59:13,205 --> 01:59:18,325
Speaker 6: like Amelia Jovovic film, like some futuristic, really bizarre sci

2028
01:59:18,325 --> 01:59:22,365
Speaker 6: fi scientists have discovered, you know, and it goes it

2029
01:59:22,405 --> 01:59:25,725
Speaker 6: all goes terribly wrong. Guns are involved, but no. Mealy

2030
01:59:25,805 --> 01:59:28,205
Speaker 6: Joviovich is a former war hero whose peaceful life is

2031
01:59:28,205 --> 01:59:31,765
Speaker 6: shattered when her daughter is kidnapped. That's in Protector and

2032
01:59:31,965 --> 01:59:33,725
Speaker 6: we have Yeah, what are you gonna do? You gonna

2033
01:59:33,725 --> 01:59:34,125
Speaker 6: see that one?

2034
01:59:34,165 --> 01:59:34,765
Speaker 8: Josh?

2035
01:59:34,805 --> 01:59:37,045
Speaker 1: No, I just that makes sense. There you go, that.

2036
01:59:36,965 --> 01:59:37,645
Speaker 7: Does check it r.

2037
01:59:37,685 --> 01:59:38,165
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2038
01:59:38,245 --> 01:59:40,365
Speaker 6: We also have Maggie Gillenhall's The Bride.

2039
01:59:41,045 --> 01:59:41,765
Speaker 1: Yes, that's out.

2040
01:59:43,045 --> 01:59:43,645
Speaker 7: I'm excited.

2041
01:59:43,805 --> 01:59:44,325
Speaker 1: We're excited.

2042
01:59:45,365 --> 01:59:49,205
Speaker 6: Point next week we are planning to see that film.

2043
01:59:49,485 --> 01:59:53,565
Speaker 6: We will have our Oscar special with Michael Phillips and Yeah,

2044
01:59:53,685 --> 01:59:56,285
Speaker 6: believe it or not, it's film Spotting madness, best of

2045
01:59:56,325 --> 01:59:58,445
Speaker 6: the nineteen forties playing round.

2046
01:59:59,245 --> 02:00:00,805
Speaker 7: It's a big, big show, big week.

2047
02:00:01,445 --> 02:00:04,365
Speaker 1: Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe Disso and Sam

2048
02:00:04,445 --> 02:00:07,765
Speaker 1: Van Hogren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go.

2049
02:00:08,245 --> 02:00:11,885
Speaker 1: Our production assistant is Sophie kempinar Special. Thanks to everyone

2050
02:00:11,925 --> 02:00:16,325
Speaker 1: at wb easy Chicago. More information is available at wbeazy

2051
02:00:16,605 --> 02:00:20,125
Speaker 1: dot org for Film Spotting. I'm Josh Larson and.

2052
02:00:20,085 --> 02:00:21,885
Speaker 7: I'm Adam Kempenar. Thanks for listening.

2053
02:00:22,085 --> 02:00:25,045
Speaker 2: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore.

2054
02:00:25,885 --> 02:00:29,885
Speaker 7: Good Bye,