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Speaker 1: Pushkin. I'm at Jack White's house in Detroit. There's over

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Speaker 1: a dozen of us there. Jack's eighty eight year old

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Speaker 1: mom is in the front room, greeting everyone as they

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Speaker 1: come in. His older brothers there too, sawars, some folks

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Speaker 1: from the Third Man record label, Jack Runs, Malcolm Gladwell

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Speaker 1: and I are sitting in amazement. The Rack and Tours,

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Speaker 1: Patrick Keeler, Jack, Lawrence, Brendan Benson, Jack White are hanging

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Speaker 1: on Jack's sun porch, warming up, playing the blues of

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Speaker 1: the thirty or so number one Billboard albums. This year,

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Speaker 1: only four have been rock albums, and one was The

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Speaker 1: Rack and Tours Help a Stranger. Jack and Malcolm first

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Speaker 1: met in Nashville to talk about Elvis for Malcolm's other podcast,

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Speaker 1: Revisionist History. Malcolm got the grand tour of Jackson State

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Speaker 1: in Tennessee, where he and most of the band live

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Speaker 1: now full time. After that, Malcolm would jump at any

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Speaker 1: chance to hang with Jack. So when the invite came

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Speaker 1: to tape a broken record episode with the band in

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Speaker 1: their native Detroit, we leaped at it. Even Rick Rubin

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Speaker 1: phoned in for it. You'll hear him turn up a

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Speaker 1: few minutes into the conversation. This is a fun one.

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Speaker 1: This is Broken Record Season three. Liner notes for the

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Speaker 1: Digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Just a quick note here.

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Speaker 1: You can listen to all of the music mentioned in

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Speaker 1: this episode on our playlist, which you can find a

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Speaker 1: link to in the show notes for licensing reasons, each

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Speaker 1: time a song is referenced in this episode, you'll hear

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Speaker 1: this sound effect. All right, enjoy the episode. Before Malcolm

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Speaker 1: and Rick's conversation with the Rack and tours, the band

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Speaker 1: kick things off with a great cover of Donovan's Hey

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Speaker 1: Jip Dig the Slowness. Wait, that's the one where you

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Speaker 1: thought of swapping out Cadillac for Tesla. Yeah, we were

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Speaker 1: talking about it. I want don't we modernize if we're

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Speaker 1: doing the cover of this. You know, all the old songs,

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Speaker 1: the rock and roll and blue songs are always Cadillac,

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Speaker 1: this and that. So this this song had Cadillac and

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Speaker 1: Chevrolet and the original head I think the Mustang was

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Speaker 1: a Memphis Mini song. I think he was taking his

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Speaker 1: thing from and we're talking about Donovan, and so we thought,

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Speaker 1: why don't we modernize, Let's let's put it in something

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Speaker 1: like But we're like, oh, this just sounds silly. And

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Speaker 1: then we just brought up this whole conversation of why

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Speaker 1: why is it such a hard thing to interject modern

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Speaker 1: technology into the lyrics of rock and roll or blue songs?

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Speaker 1: Because hip hop and country can do it and I

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Speaker 1: and they're expected to almost expected to you, like in

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Speaker 1: modern countries. I mean, I don't know, you could look

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Speaker 1: some up or something, because I don't really I'm not

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Speaker 1: that familiar with modern country lyrics. But when I'm listening

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Speaker 1: to the radio Nashville, it's always like something like you

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Speaker 1: know all that shit, and like, yeah, I hope so,

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Speaker 1: because that's a that's a hit, that's a hit. We laugh,

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Speaker 1: But that actually, you know what I mean, like why

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Speaker 1: are they? And then hip hop it's you can drop

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Speaker 1: any modern reference and you're expected to its supposed to

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Speaker 1: like whatever's hip this week, you know, let alone, uh

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Speaker 1: not twenty nineteen. So but when rock and roll, if

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Speaker 1: you do it, it's kind of it's kind of goofy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it brings up the idea, like I was

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Speaker 1: talking sending you the idea of this phonograph lyrics, you know, hello, hello,

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Speaker 1: oh Rick, oh hey Rick, Hello, Hello, how are you?

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Speaker 1: We're all good? We're sitting here with the Rack on tours. Hey, Rick, Hey, Rick, Hey,

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Speaker 1: what's happening? They just played a it's an old Donovan

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Speaker 1: song which references I'll buy you a Cadillac, and we

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Speaker 1: were asking the question why can't it be updated to

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Speaker 1: I'll buy you a Tesla AX? And why why is

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Speaker 1: it you can't? Why is it you can do modern

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Speaker 1: references in country songs but not in rock and roll songs.

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Speaker 1: That was the question on the table. I think you

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Speaker 1: can know. I would love to. I would love to

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Speaker 1: hear Jack singing about the Tesla AX. Yeah. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: give you example. I'm gonna do uh, just a second

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Speaker 1: of a Phonograph blues, Robert Johnson Phonograph Blues. So we

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Speaker 1: got like a But if that was a hip hop track,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you know this Rick better than the most

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Speaker 1: you could say that if you put the right new

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Speaker 1: beat on it, not only is it gonna work, it's

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Speaker 1: actually expected. But there's something about rock and roll and

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Speaker 1: blues to me. I always feel like, if you can't

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Speaker 1: there has to be a mechanical thing to have it

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Speaker 1: have romance to it, Like if it doesn't have if

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Speaker 1: it's if you yeah, everybody's still singing about trains, and

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Speaker 1: even guys never even seen a train in their life

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Speaker 1: can write a song and put a train in there.

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Speaker 1: But if you say mono rail people mover or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and if that doesn't make any sense, it's not romantic.

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Speaker 1: If you we're talking about electric car set of an

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Speaker 1: old Cadillac, all of a sudden, it's not romantic. But

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Speaker 1: then ultimately you limit the rock and roll vocabulary to that.

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Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't think agree with you. I

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Speaker 1: think that's a that's a self imposed limitation that maybe

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Speaker 1: that's what it's gonna take. Maybe that's what the reinvention

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Speaker 1: of rock and roll sounds like. It's modern references. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, Almo, I think rock and roll has this

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Speaker 1: like lyric Lyrically, it's always been mysterious. I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: like almost like a I mean, even the Blues they

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Speaker 1: were like speaking like you know, such slang. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was like, you know, you couldn't easily understand what

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Speaker 1: they're talking about. And it's continued on, like what's Mick

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Speaker 1: Jagger mean by that? But if Robert Johnson is when

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Speaker 1: he's saying, Beatrice, I love your phonograph or whatever he's

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Speaker 1: talking that was a modern thing right then and there.

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Speaker 1: That was a hot thing to have. A lot only

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Speaker 1: rich people had record players in a lot of prices.

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Speaker 1: Maybe more than that, maybe it was, like you know,

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Speaker 1: in that day, a way of saying, you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, like secretly I'm in love with you, or

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe it meant even more like it was.

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Speaker 1: I'm just I'm talking about just the literal reference of

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Speaker 1: he's referencing a modern technological device a phonograph right at

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Speaker 1: that time. If you wrote a blue song quote unquote

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Speaker 1: right now and you mentioned iPod or listening to streaming

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Speaker 1: service on your I phone, that's not romantic. It's just

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Speaker 1: it's kind of sounds silly, and if you and maybe

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Speaker 1: it's something to contextualize with rock and rolls place in

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Speaker 1: culture now in twenty nineteen, compared to hip hop or

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Speaker 1: or country music or modern country music, which I don't

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Speaker 1: really think is even even is country music really anymore,

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Speaker 1: But the fact that they're expected to make really current

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Speaker 1: modern references in country music for it to be a

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Speaker 1: hit song, it's expectation. But those guys, I think Williams

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Speaker 1: wouldn't been caught dead not singing out of Cadillac or something,

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Speaker 1: you know like that. It is this a problem for

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Speaker 1: that kind you're talking about? Sort of the rock and

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Speaker 1: roll vernacular has a set of very specific reference. Is

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Speaker 1: that a problem that you can't kind of updated easily?

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Speaker 1: You did put clicking and swiping into a rock Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we can't be done. We had a song on there

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Speaker 1: was said Brendan actually came up with lyricists, don't bother me.

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Speaker 1: It's so but that's that's what was in there. And

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Speaker 1: he came up he said that though clicking and swiping,

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Speaker 1: And I thought that was funny because it had like

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Speaker 1: multiple meanings. It's not pointing to a specific cultural artifact.

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Speaker 1: If you're playing with words, you're winking. Yeah, I did.

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Speaker 1: I did a bid women sound song few years ago

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Speaker 1: called three Women, and his was like and when I

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Speaker 1: did it was I got three women red, Blondie and

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Speaker 1: Brunette and I when I went to the five, I said,

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Speaker 1: and I got away with it there that was a

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Speaker 1: blue song done in sort of like a funky way.

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Speaker 1: And I said digital photograph And I was purposely trying

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Speaker 1: to break this idea in might have but let's go

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Speaker 1: back to he made that comment just now, Jack that yeah,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of what passes for country today, he said,

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Speaker 1: isn't really country. Yeah, talk a little bit about the distinction,

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Speaker 1: you see. You seem to say that there are some

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Speaker 1: rules that apply to country. That yeah, you can talk specifically.

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Speaker 1: I think someone who's in a country artist might be

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Speaker 1: able to tell you better than I would have. But

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Speaker 1: I think they'd also be afraid to say it because

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Speaker 1: they're very I think they live in fear in that

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Speaker 1: world because they only have one radio format, it's country,

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Speaker 1: and if they don't stick to the formula, they will

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Speaker 1: not get radio airplay if they try to do like

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Speaker 1: if a modern country artist without naming any names whatever,

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Speaker 1: were to do like a record an album as the

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Speaker 1: same way Hank Williams or Loretta Lynn had done in

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Speaker 1: the sixties or fifties, then they would call it roots

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Speaker 1: rock or Americana and it would never get played and

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Speaker 1: it would never get played on the radio, and it

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Speaker 1: would become Okay, he's trying to go roots you now,

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Speaker 1: and it would be a failure, I think, And I

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Speaker 1: think that's the scares them. They have to use really

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Speaker 1: computerized they're adapting, they're adapting really quickly. They're evolving, you know,

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Speaker 1: Like I mean, the country music itself is changing. I

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Speaker 1: mean has been changing for so for so long now,

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Speaker 1: and finally it's become anything goes. It's pop, it's rap,

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Speaker 1: it's whatever, heavy metal, so I mean it's I mean,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's kind of evolving for that read out of

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Speaker 1: necessity because there's only there. They only have this corner

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Speaker 1: of the market or whatever, you know, so in order

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Speaker 1: to survive country music. Well that's how big. That's how

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Speaker 1: why Taylor's swift got so more it's more gigantic as

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Speaker 1: distanced away from country and became more pop and succeeded

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Speaker 1: in doing so. Which is I mean, you're talking about

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Speaker 1: the most loyal fan base, and think in all the

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Speaker 1: genres is country music fans. I mean, if they like

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Speaker 1: you for one day, they like you to the day

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Speaker 1: they die. And the worst star where we came from

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Speaker 1: the garage rock hipsters who like you this week and

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Speaker 1: don't like you next week. Yeah, and that idea of

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Speaker 1: that you toggle back and forth between Nashville and Detroit

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Speaker 1: is really interesting. I'm just curious about how that affects

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Speaker 1: the way you make music. I think one thing that

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Speaker 1: happens is you know, there's a lot. Yeah, I've met

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Speaker 1: a lot more fiddle players, you know, like since I've

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Speaker 1: been living there, or steel players, and invariably you invite

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Speaker 1: one of them some you know, just as a I mean,

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Speaker 1: you just get to know these people. They're cool, so

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Speaker 1: you invite them down to play, and soon they're appearing

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Speaker 1: on your record. And then people are saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: you've I see how you've you know, you've taken on

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Speaker 1: this kind of Nashville sound or whatever, and it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: actually this person I mean, yes, I guess maybe you

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Speaker 1: could say that, but uh but in reality, it was

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Speaker 1: just this guy's so cool and I'm in all of

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Speaker 1: his skills. I love his He's like he's crazy good,

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Speaker 1: and it's I want to be around that, you know.

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Speaker 1: To add to add to that, though, if you went

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Speaker 1: nobody wants to be boxed in in any case. So

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Speaker 1: if you were say we did all move to Nashville

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Speaker 1: and we actually became country singers because of the environment,

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Speaker 1: we would probably be prone to not admit it. We'd

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Speaker 1: probably be prone when asked to say, oh no, that's

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Speaker 1: has nothing to do with this. We'd like country music

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Speaker 1: back when we live in Detroit, We're not being pushed

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Speaker 1: around or influenced by our environment or whatever. But I

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Speaker 1: think wherever you go, it's not like when we were

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Speaker 1: in Detroit. It's not like we like the Stooges because

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Speaker 1: we're walking down the street we like the Stooges. It's

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Speaker 1: because the people were hanging out with like the Stooges,

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Speaker 1: and we like them too, and not just means a

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Speaker 1: cultural thing. In this area the country, we're more prone

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Speaker 1: to like the gorries of Stooges, Detroit, Cobras, whatever. And

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Speaker 1: if you're down in Nashville, you're more prone to like

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Speaker 1: Laretta Lynn and Tammy Laynette. Would you say that since

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Speaker 1: moving to Nashville forgetting the making of music, has your

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Speaker 1: taste changed at all? That's a great question. Rick. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna say I've been I've been exposed more to country,

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Speaker 1: kind of pop country by my wife, and she's like

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Speaker 1: that stuff, and so I think my I think I've

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Speaker 1: come around slightly to some of it, you know, just

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Speaker 1: seeing I can see some good and I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: it's changed my taste, but maybe it's broadened my horizons

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Speaker 1: a little bit. You know. Have you written I have

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Speaker 1: an appreciation. So I have a very large appreciation and

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Speaker 1: respect for some of those writers. I think they're super

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Speaker 1: clever and you know what I mean, And that's sort

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Speaker 1: of been country music for a long time, kind of

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Speaker 1: witty and clever. And that could be like Florida Georgia

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Speaker 1: line that has a line maybe that's just like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's good, that's good. You know, I appreciate that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff. My appreciation goes to, like I like the

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Speaker 1: cleverness of the monster mash and the cleverness of uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, uh, the novelty songs. And if you there's

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Speaker 1: is when you're a songwriter and you're and you're thinking

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Speaker 1: of something clever, like I think this last record, Druis album,

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Speaker 1: we stayed away from clever in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 1: It's it's tempting to want to come up with a

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Speaker 1: clever lyric, but then you also can go pass that

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Speaker 1: line into novelty, well then into not no emotion, no emotion,

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Speaker 1: no feeling, because it's that clever is kind of like

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Speaker 1: it's this Nie slapper or it's like a jeez, I

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Speaker 1: mean not it's actually I take that back. I mean

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Speaker 1: sometimes it's just just so good it's and I'm trying.

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Speaker 1: I can't think of, you know, any great examples right now.

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Speaker 1: Is there a song on this on this most recent record,

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Speaker 1: she thinks I still love her, you know, or something

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Speaker 1: like that. You know that song, Yeah, she thinks I

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Speaker 1: still care? I mean, it's the whole song is or

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Speaker 1: the whole song is kind of just this witty it's

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Speaker 1: so heavy. It's almost like in Loretta Lindos at all

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Speaker 1: the time, like there's a throwaway that's the novelty hook

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Speaker 1: to get you involved. But the metaphors once you get

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Speaker 1: in there are so heavy and deep that makes you

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Speaker 1: giggle for a second kind of smile, but then you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: whoa wait a minute, Yeah, I think I think she

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Speaker 1: thinks I still care is one of the most amazing

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Speaker 1: metaphors ever written. As from a songwriting standpoint, everyone can

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Speaker 1: relate to that, like, yeah, you know, but you could

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Speaker 1: laugh forget her, forget him, you know, like I need him,

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Speaker 1: you know. It's just classic man and then summed up

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Speaker 1: so perfectly in that song. But it's because he's he

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Speaker 1: does still care, right, that's the whole point of that song.

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Speaker 1: I remember there's a Conway twitty song that begins with

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Speaker 1: all the things he has to do now that his

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Speaker 1: woman has left him. Yeah, I remember I've canceled my

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Speaker 1: subscription to the whole Ladies Turn. And it's like totally gimmicky,

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Speaker 1: and then you start to realize, oh my god, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this guy's truly truly Yeah, you know. It's what's interesting

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Speaker 1: about it is it's really sarcasm. Yeah, and it's not

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Speaker 1: unusual to hear sarcasm. Let's saying a Bob Dylan song,

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Speaker 1: but lines might be sarcastic, it would, the premise of

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Speaker 1: the song is almost never. I can't think of an

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Speaker 1: example where the premise of the song is based on sarcasm. Right,

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Speaker 1: you're right, right, it's hook lines to hook you in

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Speaker 1: with sarcasm. But the deeper meaning of it is actually

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Speaker 1: But I go so far as to say that that's

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Speaker 1: the all great songs are like that, that that the

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Speaker 1: story is what you're trying to convey. You're communicating a story.

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Speaker 1: The music, the melody, all of it's a trick. It's

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Speaker 1: all of a way to trick you into the story. Well,

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Speaker 1: hopefully there are many levels too, Right, there's to trick

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Speaker 1: you in, to get you. The beat is a trick.

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Speaker 1: The title the song's a trick, that the melody is

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Speaker 1: a trick. And I don't mean that in an insulting

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Speaker 1: sense a way. It's there's nothing wrong with that. That's great,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's when. But it's just to manipulate

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Speaker 1: your feeling and your emotions and to make you sad,

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Speaker 1: make you cry like this, this feels you know, this

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Speaker 1: is great? Or this you know, you make some sort

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Speaker 1: of sound that sounds you know, whatever the decord, you know,

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Speaker 1: the ultimate? Do you do it? Do you would you

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Speaker 1: say you do that consciously? I do sometimes I think

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Speaker 1: so yeah, and and probably fail most of those times.

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Speaker 1: I'm conscious of it. And then other times, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, songs kind of creep up on me later,

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Speaker 1: much later, and I think, wow, man, I you know

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Speaker 1: that's cool. That's really deep, you know, it's it moves

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Speaker 1: me in a different way. Maybe it hits me differently,

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Speaker 1: and I think, oh, okay, I think that was a

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Speaker 1: successful song. You know, is there a song on the

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Speaker 1: latest album that strikes you in retrospect as a Nashville song,

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Speaker 1: a song you would would only have written because you

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Speaker 1: moved to Nashville. Maybe thoughts and prayers and thoughts and

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Speaker 1: prayers as Yeah, that's the last song on the record,

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Speaker 1: kind of has that vibe to it. Can you pay

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Speaker 1: a little bit and then explain what sort of Nashville

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Speaker 1: about it? Let's discover maybe we can discover the way

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Speaker 1: I love that song. Wait, can that song get played

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Speaker 1: on country radio? No? Absolutely, you know, it's really it's

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Speaker 1: really more it's more Southern rock than it is kind

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Speaker 1: I think you're right, Rick, Yeah, yeah, it has that

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Speaker 1: feeling to it. It's sort of like those incorporations of

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Speaker 1: those sort of luck that kind of cowboy Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: makes me think more of like Leonard Skinner and Molly

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Speaker 1: Hatchett than it does country music. You know. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: like on paper, if you were going to write a

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Speaker 1: story about a garage rock band from Detroit then moved

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Speaker 1: to Nashville who has songwriting sensibilities, you might say that

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Speaker 1: they're gonna turn into fuckinglerd Skinner. I don't know. You

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Speaker 1: are Southern rock not necessarily not necessarily a bad thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: not a bad Wait. Can you can you talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about how that song came about? It was

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Speaker 1: like a little demo I did it. I thought maybe

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Speaker 1: it wasn't really that interesting, but Brendan kind of heard

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Speaker 1: something in it, and we were testing it out. It

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Speaker 1: was more minor key, I think, wasn't it all minor?

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Speaker 1: And then we changed you changed it to major D

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Speaker 1: and brought some sort of my brightness too? So is

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Speaker 1: that all you began with or did you beat? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And I had that was like I was trying to

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Speaker 1: write lyrics like I wouldn't normally write, trying to like

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Speaker 1: pretend I was a different songwriter writing those lyrics. I

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Speaker 1: would never write, why why does the grim Reaper creep?

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Speaker 1: How does the Grim Reaper creep? If he doesn't really

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Speaker 1: have the time? I mean, that's me. When I wrote

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Speaker 1: that down was to trying to be ridiculous to myself,

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Speaker 1: like what another songwriter would write, like why no? Cross

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Speaker 1: that out? I was trying to go into that territory

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Speaker 1: or Joe, trying to shake myself up a little bit.

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Speaker 1: And I had heard I had heard a pick. What's that?

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Speaker 1: Did you pick? Did you pick a character for that songwriter?

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Speaker 1: Or was it just not you? Was it rooted in

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Speaker 1: either anyone you love or a combination or a fictional character?

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Speaker 1: What's the character? Actually? It's a It's like I won't

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Speaker 1: say the name. But I heard I heard a reference

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Speaker 1: on the radio, driving in the car, heard a reference

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Speaker 1: in the radio that pissed me off so much. It

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Speaker 1: was a reference in a song that was someone trying

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Speaker 1: to be clever and modern. And I won't say what

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Speaker 1: it was, but to me, that made me write this

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Speaker 1: line of I wrote a letter down to you like

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Speaker 1: I'm Sullivan Blue. I was trying to say, like if

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Speaker 1: I had took this goofy song writer and said, hey, listen,

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Speaker 1: why don't you instead of that reference, why don't you

356
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Speaker 1: reference something that actually has some staying power, some longevity

357
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Speaker 1: to it, instead of saying that person's name, Why don't

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Speaker 1: you say Sullivan Blue and let people go and learn

359
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Speaker 1: about Sullivan Blue in the letter he wrote in the

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Speaker 1: Civil War and maybe that. So it's almost like I

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Speaker 1: was pretending to workshop with this songwriter kid who doesn't

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Speaker 1: know what he's doing. You know. It's kind of a strange, crazy,

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Speaker 1: off the left field thing to do. But so you're

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Speaker 1: literally driving down the road. Had you heard that song before, No,

365
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Speaker 1: so you're hearing it for the first time, and then

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Speaker 1: you the song makes a reference and you're like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can do better than that. Yeah, it's I think

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Speaker 1: you should care enough. I think a lot of people

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Speaker 1: don't say that I'm dumb enough to say that in

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Speaker 1: interviews and stuff, you know, Like they say like that

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Speaker 1: that that that's you know enough. I can hear that

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Speaker 1: and it pisces me off. But I think that you

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Speaker 1: should care enough about your craft. If you're an architect

374
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Speaker 1: and you drive it down the street and you see

375
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Speaker 1: some ridiculously built, constructed house in a neighborhood where it

376
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,320
Speaker 1: doesn't belong you, you have two rules of all. You

377
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Speaker 1: can be like, oh, hey, I'm easy going man, everything's cool,

378
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Speaker 1: sure man, whatever you want, you know, or you'll be

379
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Speaker 1: like no, rid absolutely, you're like you know. Frank Windwright

380
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Speaker 1: used to call all the glass building architects the glass

381
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Speaker 1: box Boys, which always thought would be a great name

382
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Speaker 1: for a band. But it's great, but his his his

383
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Speaker 1: love of the craft. You when you're turned angry at

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Speaker 1: times by your love of the craft, When you see

385
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Speaker 1: someone getting away with something ridiculous, I think it should

386
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:45,800
Speaker 1: anger you a little bit because it makes you love

387
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Speaker 1: what you're doing all that much more. I love the

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Speaker 1: idea that you could be inspired by something that you

389
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Speaker 1: don't like to make something better and new that you

390
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Speaker 1: wouldn't do otherwise. That's really interesting. Yeah, I think I

391
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Speaker 1: always just feel like I learned more from what not

392
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,159
Speaker 1: to do than what to do. And there's these moments

393
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Speaker 1: where I think I just popped in my head talking

394
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Speaker 1: about modern country, like when we when the Grammys were

395
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Speaker 1: on last year, like Brandy Carlisle, when she's saying I

396
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,200
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, that's how it's done. That

397
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Speaker 1: should be country music right now. That should be what

398
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Speaker 1: all country music writing should strive for. Is what she

399
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Speaker 1: just did on Alive on the air. What was it

400
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,359
Speaker 1: specifically about what she was doing that you that you

401
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,040
Speaker 1: would drive I believed her. Yeah, it was beautiful. It

402
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 1: was like undeniably beautiful. You don't have to be country,

403
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Speaker 1: you know, a country fan or a fan of hers

404
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: even to know that that was gorgeous. But voices other

405
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,919
Speaker 1: world Ye, yes, yes, but you gotta want to know.

406
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,960
Speaker 1: You gotta want to You know, there's there's artists out there.

407
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 1: You hear them sing, and they could do a beautiful

408
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Speaker 1: job and sing gorgeously, but I don't believe them. If

409
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 1: I don't believe them and I don't trust them, then

410
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 1: I don't care about their songs. How do you, I mean,

411
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,680
Speaker 1: is that something that you worry about with your own music? Yeah,

412
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,199
Speaker 1: be believable. Well, the dream would be it would just

413
00:20:58,320 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 1: be great to just be put out because all the

414
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 1: people that we look well, I can I can speak

415
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,480
Speaker 1: for everyone in the band, but I can assume but

416
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 1: that the people that we love and admire and idolize,

417
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,640
Speaker 1: the songwriters and the musicians throughout history are the ones

418
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:11,639
Speaker 1: we don't know much about. I don't really know that

419
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,360
Speaker 1: much about Hank Grahams, I don't know that much about

420
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 1: Robert Johnson. We grasp at little crumbs to learn about them.

421
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Speaker 1: But I'm glad we kind of don't have that many

422
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 1: photographs of Charlie Patton and Robert Johnson because I think

423
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:25,919
Speaker 1: we'd probably destroy the mythology and you wouldn't just be

424
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 1: in love with that stuff as much. And nowadays you

425
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 1: see everything of everybody's life all day long and there's

426
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,919
Speaker 1: no mystery at all. So in order to be a

427
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 1: believable character like oh, like say Brandy Carlisle, I do

428
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,200
Speaker 1: trust her and I believe in her. I still don't

429
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,920
Speaker 1: know that much about her, but from first impression I

430
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 1: trust her, you know, isn't it interesting that the better

431
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 1: the singer, the harder it is to trust them. Do

432
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 1: you get that? Do you feel that experience at all? Yeah?

433
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 1: They can kind of They can fool you, can't they

434
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 1: They can trick you. Yeah. Well, you could have, like say,

435
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 1: at national level studio session with a bunch of musicians,

436
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 1: and there'll be a couple of like virtuosos there who

437
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,640
Speaker 1: are maybe like school taught or union or whatever kind

438
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,120
Speaker 1: of things like that, and after a minute you kind

439
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:13,679
Speaker 1: of get that vibe like mm, too too good, too clean,

440
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 1: too too nice enough, not enough kind of soul. We'll

441
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 1: be back with more from Jack White and Brendan Benson

442
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:28,879
Speaker 1: after the break, We're back with more of Malcolm and

443
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 1: Rick's conversation with the Rack and Tours The Good. I'm

444
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 1: interested this notion of imperfection being somehow appealing and perfection

445
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 1: being seeming phony. Is there a really good imperfect song,

446
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 1: A Rack and Tours song, that good imperfect song that

447
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 1: you like, that you love because of it's of it's

448
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 1: how rough it is, or how imperfect it is, or

449
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 1: how kind of They're all a little bit like that

450
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 1: in various forms. You know. I think I not to

451
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,959
Speaker 1: say where you were you like, but I think I

452
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 1: bring maybe bring that to that. That's what I bring

453
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 1: to the table for you. That's what makes what what

454
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 1: the songwriting you do in your own world where you

455
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 1: are are. He's a song craftsman, and I'm not really that.

456
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 1: I'm not good at that. He's very good at crafting

457
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: the song perfectly, and I'm more. My talents lie more

458
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 1: and very being very rough from perfectly and and I

459
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 1: think that's where the matchup is cool. If we are

460
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 1: both rough guys or both craftsman, I don't think it

461
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: would work. So I think it's two different looks at you.

462
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,239
Speaker 1: Does that cause problems sometimes? No? Because I want it.

463
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: I mean I think that I can benefit from more

464
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: of that in my writing, like you know, I've always

465
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 1: thought that, And I benefit from your craftsmanship and wanting

466
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 1: to do I think it's because we both want to

467
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 1: do what each other's doing a song and driving to

468
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 1: write the perfect song. You know, can you illustrate what

469
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,640
Speaker 1: you're talking about with a with a snippet of a song?

470
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: Caroline and drama is good because that's a that's more

471
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: like I would never have done that kind of songwriting

472
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: a song and the Life Stripes for example, like that

473
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: kind of storytelling songwriting song. With that kind of arrangement

474
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: that we did, it would have been turned into more

475
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 1: like a slide blue song. I think if I had

476
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: done it in no Oystripes, I think, dude, little, give

477
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: me a little taste of that, and then like, could

478
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,640
Speaker 1: you have about a few minutes of coming, I think

479
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: we should tune up. Yeah, yeah, that's what I meant

480
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,239
Speaker 1: to say earlier. Let me give you this, I mean,

481
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: tune in real quick and sat tune. I wondered if

482
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you guys about maybe doing that.

483
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: I just thought that was kind of imperfection. It made

484
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 1: for great music. Well, yeah, you know, this is being Yeah,

485
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: this is me and him. I wouldn't have said that,

486
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: but he would. And neither one or bad. Yeah, neither

487
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: one or bad. And now the drummer quit, right, But

488
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: that's kind of true. Well, okay, another not not an

489
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: example of between Jack and myself, but myself and someone

490
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 1: else who shall remain nameless, a producer and I was

491
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,360
Speaker 1: playing guitar in the control room with with the producer there,

492
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: and it was kind of a really exciting part of

493
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 1: the song, almost like a who part, and I was,

494
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 1: I was way up here and I was, you know,

495
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: playing like on an electric guitar, and that's pretty damn

496
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: well in tune. But the guitar was usually, you know,

497
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 1: on the twelfth fret or whatever they're it's really hard

498
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: to keep it in tune. In fact, that's probably why

499
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: Pete Town didn't liked to play those chords because they're exciting,

500
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 1: because they're dissonant and you know, but he had me

501
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: tune the chord up on the twelfth fret rick are

502
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: you listening? He had he had me tune that fretted chord.

503
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: So then later, I don't know, I'm screaming. Later, when

504
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: the record was being mixed by by Dave Sarty, whose

505
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: name can be mentioned here, he said, I said, what's

506
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 1: going on with this song? Man? It's doesn't have this

507
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: doesn't have any power to it. And he said, your

508
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 1: guitars or everything's tuo in tune, and if you want,

509
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: I can put a guitar on it that's slightly out

510
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 1: of tune. And he did, and the song just came

511
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: to life. Came to life. That's almost that's just sad.

512
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: It is, I mean, it is, it was it made

513
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: me very sad and I didn't have a very fun

514
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: time making that record. Needless to say, well this you

515
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: can transfer this over to our talk about modern country.

516
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: When we did the second Racing Ters album at Blackbird Studio,

517
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: which is the big studio in Nashville, most of the

518
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: big country records were being recorded there, especially at the time,

519
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: and they were explaining to us how they were doing

520
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: the songs in the next studio over, like we were

521
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: recording a drum track and a bass guitar and the

522
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: band would play live together and then we would start

523
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: building on it, like, oh, hey, that's two vocals. The

524
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: live track was the song. That was it. It was done,

525
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: and they were saying, oh, you know, at this point,

526
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: we would just be getting the kick drum already in

527
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: the in the over in this country album we're working on,

528
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: they would do a drum beat. You'll play a drum beat,

529
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: put it up on pro tools, put it on a

530
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 1: grid so that every kick and snare is perfectly in time,

531
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: and then they switch out the kick samples of the

532
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 1: snare drum that they think is a good sounding snare

533
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,719
Speaker 1: drum sample, So every snare drum sounds basically exactly the

534
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: same hit it exactly perfect time. There's no soul left

535
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: in the recording at all. Even that's how you get

536
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: played on country music radio. You have to do that

537
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 1: stuff to this song, take all the thought of it.

538
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: And it's sort of like, man, can you imagine if

539
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: even the Beatles had been recorded that way? And there

540
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: even hip hop those guys, those beats, guys are going,

541
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: you know, going so far to make the beats imperfect,

542
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: to make them nowadays we make them like swing and

543
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: do weird not even in time. Sometimes it's awesome, you know. Yeah,

544
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 1: But that's Jay Dillock who's the maybe maybe the one

545
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: of the first to do that where they're really just

546
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 1: kind of playing it off time and yeah and uh

547
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: and uh and makeing it have some swing to it,

548
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I mean they're trying, they're

549
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,479
Speaker 1: trying to go the other way with it, like they

550
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: want this drum machine to sound like imperfect. You know, yeah,

551
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 1: that's better. What's striving that? Is it? Is it being

552
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: driven from the audience level or is it just driven

553
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: or is it just a kind of thoughtless extension of

554
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: expertise that I can because I can make a perfect day,

555
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 1: will in my opinion, be a bad domino effect of

556
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: what's selling, what's working, and all that one worked because

557
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 1: we use this algorithm type thing and we put everything

558
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: up on a grid and made everything that OCD. Two

559
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: man people OCD in the business honestly thinking like you know,

560
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 1: the engineer like I can't stand the bleed or I

561
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: can't stand this this this snare is just kind of

562
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: out of phase a little bit. You know, I want

563
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 1: to replace it, and no one says anything. No one

564
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 1: says no stop, no one ever. Everybody want to also

565
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: describe it as a misuse of technology. Yeah, I agree, Rick,

566
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 1: And it's like you can use like you know, nothing

567
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: can be firm. If I say I've I've gotten punished

568
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: a lot for being like this anti technology guy, I'm

569
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: really not. And the point being is I think people

570
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: misunderstand like I'm not saying, like if you record on

571
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: computer or you're a lifeless piece of shit. It's like, no,

572
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: you can record on potos and do some really beautiful

573
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: things and you can use it properly if you all.

574
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: But if you plug in and everything no one's playing

575
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: in a room live together. Everything is a track individually.

576
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: Everything has been has sixteen plugins and emulations on it

577
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: of reverb with digital emulators, and on and on and on.

578
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: You've you've clicked your mouse three million times before this

579
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: song is quote unquote finished. Are you me? There's no

580
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: way that's going to have any solar life to it.

581
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: And if you took your favorite recordings of Otis Redding

582
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: or the Beatles or whatever and tried to have do

583
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: it in that same fashion, I don't think people would

584
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: like the results. But that doesn't mean that you could.

585
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: You can't use that technology and come up with beautiful things.

586
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: You definitely can't, but you gotta be very diligent, I think,

587
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: and what like what Rick said, that you can misuse

588
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: any of that technology. It's a lot easier to misuse

589
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: this technology now than it was when it was just

590
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: tape machines. It was a lot harder to mess absolutely,

591
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: you know absolutely, because you have more you have more control,

592
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: which can be a dangerous thing. And there's no undo.

593
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: There's no apple Z. You know, there wasn't no, I mean,

594
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: there was no it was apple Z. So you had

595
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: to commit. You had to commit, well, you guys are

596
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: to play something well example, yeah, oh okay, So this

597
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: was a song called Caroline and Drama that we mean,

598
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: but it worked on my on my porch in Nashville

599
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: when we're in our second album, and it became a

600
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: sort of like a story telling song. We won't play

601
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: the whole thing, it's a little bit long, but we'll

602
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: play a little bit of it. And it was really

603
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: us working together. I mean when this song probably would

604
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: have been more of like a slide open slide, very

605
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: trashy kind of song if I had done it in

606
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: my other band, The White Stripes at the time, But

607
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: when we did it together, it sort of turned into

608
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: a storytelling kind of song. You're grateful for that, and

609
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: it ways you don't, yes, because I didn't want the

610
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: Rock and Tours to sound anything like The White Stripes.

611
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: I want if we were going to start a new band,

612
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: I don't want to sound anything like it. And then

613
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: when I do solo record, I don't want it to

614
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: sound anything like the Rock and Tours. And so anytime

615
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: you do a project, you don't want it to have

616
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: any real similarities. And I think maybe that's a little

617
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: bit what's what's tough for anybody who's been in a

618
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: band that connected with people in the mainstream especially, you know,

619
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: I always think about that. Like, we toured with Robert

620
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: Plant in South America, and I just love what he

621
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: was doing solo, and you just get that vibe in

622
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: the room that people just want to hear that led

623
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: Zepplin song next. And it's a little bit that's a

624
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: kind of curse of bands too, you know, beloved bands

625
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: as a unit they liked. It's like, I don't know,

626
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: it's like maybe even part of a fantasy thing, like oh,

627
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: I wish I was on the road with my four

628
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: friends or something in a van or something. I don't know.

629
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: Maybe there's some appeal of that, but there's this idea

630
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: that this gang of guys or girls is up there

631
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: against all odds, traveling in the country and and and

632
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: and coming up these songs together. And when you're solo,

633
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: it's almost like you're, oh, this is like an em

634
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,719
Speaker 1: Why why don't you just do the white stripes? Why

635
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: don't want you just do that? That's what we want

636
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: you to do. You know, why doesn't Robert Plant just

637
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: reform led Zeppelin? Because that's what you want you to do.

638
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: But I think people don't realize that it's not what

639
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: the artists want. There are doesn't want to keep repeating them, says,

640
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: can you imagine if Robert Denier had to keep playing

641
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: Travis Bickle from textra Driver in every film for the

642
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: rest of his life? I mean liked should that should

643
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: be like that? It can't be in a band for

644
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: more than five years. Five years actually be pretty good. Yeah,

645
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: it's not bad. You want to try it. Yeah, it's

646
00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: Carolina and drama. It's not it's total Southern Gothic. It doesn't.

647
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: But this, you know, this reminds me of the last

648
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: time we chatted for that podcast episode on Elvis. You

649
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: were talking about how the first time you went to

650
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: Memphis he reminded you of Detroit, and then you had

651
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: that whole thing about how Detroit is southern town. Yeah,

652
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 1: maybe it's not a stretch that you end up writing

653
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: Southern gothic. Why Detroit a bunch of guys who right

654
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: end up writting Southern gothic rock. Yeah, there's something about it,

655
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: there's something there where there is a kind of literal connection.

656
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: It does when you're in Memphis. I feel very much

657
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: like it's like Detroit, New Orleans, Memphis, Detroit sort of

658
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: have something straight down the country, some kind of blood

659
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: vein going on. Yes, so you're painting the picture. We

660
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: just played that song. It sounds very southern and we

661
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: wrote it on a southern front porch in my house

662
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: in Nashville. Well, why aren't we writing Stooges sounding heavy

663
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: rock number? Maybe because we have acoustic guitars and we're

664
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: sitting on a veranda or something. I don't know, but

665
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: it might be that sometimes these environments saying you know

666
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: that your environment influences you don't really know specifically what

667
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: it is, but you know it's it's being influenced. I

668
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: guess that song was written from beginning to end on

669
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: your front porch and basically, yeah, for the most part,

670
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: How does it when you guys write together? Is it?

671
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: How does it work? Well? It's been different, like so

672
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: this record, I think we did a lot of impromptu

673
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: on the microphone, like just going out there and just

674
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: kind of riffing, you know, just vocalizing I don't know,

675
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: on a song and then picking out parts like oh

676
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: that sounds nice or whatever. I'm specific I'm specifically remembering

677
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: now Caroline Ramon will recept there, and it was it

678
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: was sort of like say, we started off with Billy

679
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: woke up in the back of his truck and I

680
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: was like, Billy, that's a stupid name to put in there.

681
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, we'll find something else later. And and

682
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: you know, I remember, actually Bob Dylan had come by

683
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: the house a few months later. I have to read

684
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: recorded and I played him that song and I was

685
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: actually saying, hey, man, do you think it's actually went

686
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: with an infigram may I You've used Billy in the

687
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: song Tom Petty has in fifteen other songs. Off the

688
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: top of my head, Billy Joe McAllister jumped off the

689
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: tallatte Bridge. I was like, I'm trying to think of

690
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: something different, but I can't think of a two syllable name.

691
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 1: And he's like, He's like, I don't see a problem

692
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: with that, and this has been validated, so okay. And

693
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: then I was like, okay, then we're fine. Let's move on.

694
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: And you've become friends with Dylan. We are we are

695
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 1: he's well, he's he's my dad, he's he's my mentor.

696
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: So I I don't insulted by saying we're friends, you know,

697
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,399
Speaker 1: in the state as if I'm anywhere near uh, but

698
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,240
Speaker 1: but he he uh, yeah, we do have a pretty

699
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,399
Speaker 1: nice relationship. He's nice to be able to play something

700
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 1: like that and get it get feedback. But but yeah,

701
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: but to talk about the Brendan and I like song

702
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: right anyway? In that song, for example, I say, I

703
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: go that one one thing was the name, and I okay,

704
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: we'll think of something later. But then he's like, he

705
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: will say, well, what's he gonna do now? You know? Okay,

706
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: Well he just woke up in his truck and he

707
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: went and saw, Oh there's a priest in his house.

708
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: Now we're now we're feeding off each what's the priest doing? Oh, well,

709
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: maybe he's fighting with someone else. There's a boyfriend there

710
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: who was described by his boyfriend. How do you describe

711
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: these people? Sum up their whole lives in one sentence?

712
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: And I thought something like, oh he's got some blue

713
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: tattoos that were given to him and hears young, Like

714
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,399
Speaker 1: maybe he's been in prison since he was a kid.

715
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: Was a one way of saying he sent a rough life.

716
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 1: It's hard to do that though. It's hard to sum

717
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: up someone's life in a sound bite, but you kind

718
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: of have to do that as a song. You have

719
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: to come with these you have to make these concessions,

720
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: you know, especially if you're talking about characters like that.

721
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: But I think those things come out of me and

722
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: him bouncing it off of each other. If I had

723
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: been sitting there by myself, the song would have came

724
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: out totally different and the characters would have done different things.

725
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: How often are the songs that you write about a

726
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: fictional character. Brendan is different, and he can tell you

727
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: a different story about his own, But I almost never

728
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: try to write about myself because it's just so it's

729
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: too boring for me. I feel it's like it's boring,

730
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,919
Speaker 1: and also if it's I'm gonna end up probably writing

731
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 1: about something negative or sad, and I don't want to

732
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: keep reliving that for rest of my life. Every time

733
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 1: I played this song live, it just seems like And

734
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: then also I think it's too overdone. Nowadays. I think

735
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: everyone sort of expects that the new Taylor Swift song

736
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: is going to be about her dating John Mayer or

737
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: something like that, and I think maybe it'd be better

738
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: if people wrote about something different. I read in the

739
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 1: book something very interesting. It was like if you had

740
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: asked kids in high school one hundred years ago to

741
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: write a song who knew nothing about writing music, that

742
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: ninety percent of them or ninety five percent of them

743
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,720
Speaker 1: would have written about the Titanic or a mining disaster

744
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: or something big that was to the community. But if

745
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: you wrote asked a hundred high school kids right now

746
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: to write a song who nothing about music or songwriting,

747
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: they would all one writes songs about themselves. And that's

748
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: something that I don't really have an opinion on about

749
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: what that means about how culture has changed, but I'm

750
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: sure everybody listening to that statement could probably infer lots

751
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: of narcissism and things that to do with how we

752
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: attack technology with social media and now these days, et cetera,

753
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 1: et cetera. Whereas before a hundred years ago, and most

754
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: people hadn't even been more than five miles from their

755
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 1: own home, they would assume that there was this grandiose

756
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: life outside of their small town that they know very

757
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 1: little about. It seems very exotic, but that's all at

758
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: our fingertips. Now. I want to dwell on this remote

759
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: because it's super interesting, this idea of the of this switch.

760
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 1: From one hundred years ago, the kids would have written

761
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: narratives about some world event, and today would be about themselves,

762
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 1: because I was just thinking as you were saying that,

763
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: was there a one hundred years ago, you know, after

764
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: Katrina there would have been a top ten song equivalent

765
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: or about Katrina or about you know, we would all

766
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: know someone would have memorialized nine eleven or I was thinking,

767
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: you know, all these that wave of police shootings over there,

768
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: you know there is one, there's one, there's that genomen

769
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: a song. But but the idea that you know, hip

770
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: hop could be a another version of hip hop is

771
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 1: would be this would be a genre full of social protests. Yeah.

772
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: I tried to work with Jay Z on a hip

773
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: hop version of stagger Lee, which I thought I was

774
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: telling Jay like and I wish you could have helped

775
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: me with this riction make this actually come alive. But

776
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: it never worked. It never happened. But I was trying

777
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,760
Speaker 1: to say, you know, Jay, this this is a song

778
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 1: about a guy who was killed over a five dollar hat.

779
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 1: And these are mythical folk heroes that should be mythical

780
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: hip hop. Uh heroes, Where are where are the mythical

781
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 1: hip hop characters? There's a lot of people in hip

782
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: hop who talk about themselves. Most of it is the

783
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: MC talking from his own point of view. Nothing wrong

784
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: with that, But wouldn't it be awesome if there was

785
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: also mythical hip hop characters? And I thought, God, stagger

786
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: Lee is just it's just waiting to be done in

787
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: a hip hop style. You know that, it's it's got everything,

788
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: It's got everything that's talked about in modern hip hop,

789
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,439
Speaker 1: and say, all you gotta do is modernize it. Take

790
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 1: us full circle to modernizing all things. But and he

791
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: was interested in for a second, we just didn't never

792
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: got I got to come together and finish it. I

793
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: ended up doing on my band The Dead Weathers Out,

794
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: and I I ended up doing a version called three Dollar

795
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: Hat off of it because I didn't want to see

796
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,479
Speaker 1: the music go to waste. I'm curious about you guys,

797
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit more about the you know,

798
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: you're talking about the music that you grew up with.

799
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,720
Speaker 1: I'm curious about the music that net that at the

800
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 1: specific point you are in your career, that really affects

801
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: you and moves you. I mean, I like to pick

802
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: up on a little moments you're like, oh that was like,

803
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 1: say I heard Billy Billie Eilish song on our day.

804
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: The I don't know the name of the type, but

805
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: I think it's a we're when we go to sleep,

806
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: when we all falls it, where do we go? I think?

807
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 1: And what I liked was the way she recorded the vocals,

808
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: and to me, like that was some great use of technology.

809
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 1: However she recorded her vocals, I'm assuming it's approach tools

810
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: thing that it was like, oh man, beautiful way that

811
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: it sounds like a synthesizer. But it's also sort of

812
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,879
Speaker 1: like four of her singing layered together, very very cool,

813
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: very well done, impressive, And you remember those kind of things,

814
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: like the tone of something, and that's what bums you out.

815
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 1: It's like when everything is electronic or electric that you

816
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: don't know. People used to say, Wow, how did they

817
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: make the sound? How did the Beatles make that sound

818
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,320
Speaker 1: at that one part in the song? Are they playing?

819
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: I think that's backwards guitar or whatever it was at

820
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,760
Speaker 1: that time, some technique that or say, like in a movie,

821
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: like how did they force that horse carriage off a cliff?

822
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: Did they really kill those horses in that movie? You know?

823
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: But now it's just a one sentence thing. It was

824
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: done on the computer. Hey Jack, how do you feel

825
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,399
Speaker 1: about the Donna summer song, I feel love, I love it.

826
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: I love it, and as I read more about it

827
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: and I think what is it? Brian Eno brought it

828
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: into the studio and said de Bowie that this is

829
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: the future of music, and it was. There was no

830
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: what was the first song? It was all completely electronic, right, Rick, Yes, yes,

831
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 1: And again to speak to what you said before, Rick,

832
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: a good use of technology versus bad use of technology?

833
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: That yes, Usually when the song something's the first, that's

834
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 1: time has ever done. First time they built a Fender

835
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 1: telecaster or a or a Fender or a reverb amp,

836
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,280
Speaker 1: like the first out of the gate is usually the best,

837
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: and that that was one of those first out of

838
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: the gate moments, like oh wow, look what you could

839
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: do with electronic music or craft work and all the

840
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,320
Speaker 1: things that came throughout that scenario of there's some amazing

841
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: things going to be done. And then but that's the

842
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: same thing with you know, say, like a grunge movement

843
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: comes out, all the dirty kind of raw signing rock

844
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 1: and roll comes out, and then you've got to listen

845
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 1: to seven years of the imitators kind of watering it down.

846
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: No big deal. That's how music has always gone it's

847
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: always gone up in hills and valleys like that. There

848
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: should be a there should you know the Germans words

849
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 1: for everything. There should be a German word for the

850
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: person who comes after the originator and does a bad

851
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:54,399
Speaker 1: version of the things. Yeah, we'll be back with more

852
00:41:54,400 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: from the Rack and Tours after the break. We're back

853
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: with more from the Rack and tours. But can you

854
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about and I'd love if you

855
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 1: paid a little bit of it. This song I don't

856
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 1: feel like trying sometimes or some days. Some days I

857
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 1: don't feel like trying on some days it seems like

858
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 1: the most personal song on Neil. Yeah it is. I didn't.

859
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: I didn't think much of it when I was writing.

860
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:23,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't think that it was necessarily so personal.

861
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: I mean I think there's kind of let me just

862
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: be clear, I think I don't. I don't write strictly autobiographically.

863
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: I mean I think I I tell stories as well.

864
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 1: They're not they're not stories with you know, necessarily there

865
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,240
Speaker 1: are lots of different characters, and the characters maybe morph

866
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: into other characters, and I take liberties and artistic license

867
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: and you know, So that being said, I mean, yeah,

868
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: I think I think I kind of felt, you know,

869
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: I was just kind of feeling at a having a

870
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: bad day, you know, maybe more than just a bad day.

871
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: But and I started to write this song, and then

872
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 1: and then of course it's it's good to embellish and

873
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 1: make things just get just twist the knife even more.

874
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,399
Speaker 1: And you know, so I I kind of I feel

875
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 1: like I just take liberties and songs like maybe try

876
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: to make it more shocking or more sad, or more

877
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: this or that, and then it people are asking me

878
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: about it, you know, like you know, it's it's wow,

879
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: it's really sounds almost suicidal if you really wanted to

880
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: throw it. When you're in a band like this, where

881
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: there's two singers and two songwriters, you can really throw

882
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 1: a spanner in the works. And you'd have me sing

883
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 1: it if it's that personal, right, and then see what

884
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 1: happens there. That could be an interesting twist. Maybe we

885
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: should have done that. Yeah, And we've talked, we've always

886
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 1: talked about doing that. We just never got around to

887
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: doing that. Just singing each other's songs, like you know,

888
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 1: I mean singing singing each other's lyrics. Will you play

889
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:57,879
Speaker 1: a little bit of that song some days? Yeah, whoa have.

890
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 1: Have either of you written a song before where it's

891
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: two distinct parts like that, where it's almost like the

892
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 1: second half of the song answers the first half and

893
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 1: the whole feeling of the song changes. Are there any

894
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: others like that in either of your catalogs? I think

895
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 1: I do that a lot. It's kind of a little

896
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: go to of mine, like a big outro, big like

897
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,280
Speaker 1: you know, but he means that that that was an answer,

898
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 1: well answer, yeah. I don't remember doing that before. Maybe

899
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 1: maybe yeah, maybe not direct directly like an answer thing,

900
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 1: But I do like it interesting that it's like the

901
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: first half of the song is that, you know, I

902
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: don't care and I'm wallowing, and then the second half

903
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: of the song is but and it's it's the second

904
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 1: half is we shall overcome. It's interesting to have both

905
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 1: of those in the same song. It is I don't know.

906
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: It just might be the first only time that you

907
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: are I've ever done that. Did you start by thinking

908
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: you're gonna have the answer or did you write the

909
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,720
Speaker 1: first half? I think it needs an answer that was written.

910
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: The second half was written on the spot spontaneously, which

911
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: I thought it was getting too I thought it was

912
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: getting too bummed out, like we were all recording it.

913
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: It was it wasn't. It also wasn't coming very easily

914
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 1: for us all, you know, So I was and I

915
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 1: was getting nervous that maybe people were losing interest in

916
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: this song that I had such high hopes for and

917
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. So I think that just after a

918
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: take that didn't go so well, I think I said

919
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 1: here right now, not did yet. That just came out

920
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: of nowhere yeah yet, And then they started playing along

921
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 1: not dead yet, dear right now, I'm not by the end,

922
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: we're singing dear right now and I'm not dead yet.

923
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 1: So we were like, whoa, let's you know, we got

924
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,439
Speaker 1: to use that. That's great. Yeah, And I was glad

925
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: because it's a happy ending, you know. But these are

926
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 1: things that would not happen. I don't know. If I wouldn't,

927
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: I wouldn't invite yourself recording your own solo stuff, you

928
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 1: wouldn't do. Those things wouldn't have happened. No, or if

929
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 1: I had written it, it it would become a part that

930
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: would be you know, just yeah, it's funny how the

931
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 1: last I mean, this is gonna like a totally tried observation.

932
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 1: But I've always been fascinated by it. You could have

933
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: a song like that, the bulk of which is this

934
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: dense downer, and then you stick the little thing on

935
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: the end and all of that is forgotten exactly the

936
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: end you know. I was class was Yeah, you know,

937
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: it's almost like it just gets you, it gets erased.

938
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 1: The emotional arc of music is so fascinating that you

939
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: can you can kind of rescue, you can take somewhere

940
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:40,800
Speaker 1: to the band's melody. Yeah, it's with that melody, you

941
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 1: can do that. I mean, I can do that right now.

942
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 1: Just just bummed it out right. But let's give me

943
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 1: all right, So there's like that's the most basic trick ever.

944
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: But you know it's all in there. It's great. I mean,

945
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: Mozart knew it, you know, they all knew it how

946
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 1: to just pull the heart strings. And it was just

947
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: kind of just popped in my head. Was that, you know,

948
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 1: speaking of like novelty songs and uh with deeper metaphors

949
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 1: so hidden back there and changing things again. But just

950
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: thinking of Loretta Linton's songs called Fist City. If you

951
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: know this song and to the choruses, I don't know

952
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 1: the chors exactly, but his chorus is, uh, and if

953
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: you don't want to go to Fist City, you better

954
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 1: detour around my town because I'll grab you by the

955
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: hair of the head and I'll lift you off of

956
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: the ground, just like a novelty thing, like oh, okay,

957
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,439
Speaker 1: you're gonna I'm gonna kick your ass if you mess

958
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: around with man. But then she says like this double chorus,

959
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: which is she's so brillian. Now she goes, I ain't

960
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: saying my baby's a saint because of hate, and Nettie

961
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 1: won't get around with a giddy. But I'm here to

962
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: tell you, Galt, you better watch your your faces. You

963
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: stay away from my man if you don't want to

964
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: go to fist City. So uh, it's like she admits, Yeah,

965
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 1: I know he's screwing around and I'm should be mad

966
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 1: at him, but yeah, I'm gonna talk about that right now,

967
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:59,240
Speaker 1: we're talking about you. That's brilliant songwriting. Yeah, so good.

968
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: I'm curious about all of you. Are have lived through

969
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: a period where the way in which people experienced music

970
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: has your audience experiences music has changed fundamentally, spanning quite

971
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:21,320
Speaker 1: a Yeah, like in twenty years we've gone from buying

972
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: the album and listening to it from the game to end,

973
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 1: yeah to to I'm assuming most it's almost all spot

974
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: you know, streaming and individual streaming and vinyls. How does

975
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 1: how has that affected? Has it affected you? Has it

976
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 1: affected the way audiences react to your music when you

977
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,399
Speaker 1: play live? We thought, we thought, say, like when we're like, say,

978
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 1: when the Patrick and Jack ran the Green Horns, I

979
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: was in a way straps on the Detroit garage rock

980
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 1: scene was cooking that that. We thought we had this

981
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: problem of what they call Golden age, thinking that everything

982
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 1: was always better in the past. Oh god, the bands

983
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: in the sixties they had it so good, and it's like, wow,

984
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 1: wouldn't it be great to be from that period? Then

985
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: this lay mass eighties and nineties blah blah blah digital

986
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: crap that we had to grow up in. And then

987
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,919
Speaker 1: you been like, we thought that was bad. Jesus man,

988
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 1: there's nobody's nobody's sitting down running a song anymore, you know,

989
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: with a with a piano. And then we're gonna say, like,

990
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: you see something like a Brandy Carlisle on the on

991
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: the ground, He's like, oh thank god, you know, and

992
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,280
Speaker 1: you know, what it is you see finally is talent.

993
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you finally see somebody who's truly gifted,

994
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: and you're like alone to pieces because what we're used

995
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,439
Speaker 1: to is mediocrity. I mean just you know, whatever's sort

996
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: of viral and popular on the internet, which is always

997
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: just so lame, you know, nothing to do with skill

998
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 1: or creation or art or you want to say, like,

999
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 1: I want someone to sit down and love their craft

1000
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,439
Speaker 1: and love their work and their art form, and they're

1001
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 1: expressing it in a way where they can figure out

1002
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 1: how to blow your mind. With the tools that they're using.

1003
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if they're analog or digital or not.

1004
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 1: Can they blow their mind? Billy I. The way she

1005
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: recorded her vocals on that song on her the year

1006
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 1: she blew My mind, The way she record your vocals.

1007
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 1: She used it technology to her advantage and did something beautiful,

1008
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 1: and she's trying to blow your mind. Yeah, but there's

1009
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 1: not enough of that. Feels like maybe maybe when you

1010
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: look back and say, oh god, it seems like every

1011
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 1: time someone turned their head in the sixties, someone was

1012
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 1: might know some amazing song that we had greatness to

1013
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 1: it and would last forever. Maybe though that we're only

1014
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: remembering the good stuff. I don't know that's we're definitely

1015
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: remembering the good stuff. And the bar to get in

1016
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: the game in the sixties was much higher, Yeah, because

1017
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:39,240
Speaker 1: the cost it took to make a record to get signed. Yeah,

1018
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: you had to really be good just to get signed. Yeah.

1019
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: And if you got to really have your you had

1020
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 1: to have your act together by the time you got

1021
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 1: to see like a guys, we got one chance. We

1022
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: better rehearse the ship and have it done right. And

1023
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:50,839
Speaker 1: if you're gonna sing, you're gonna sing from the heart,

1024
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 1: and you're gonna or really impress them because there's only

1025
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 1: this one moment. You don't have all we can go

1026
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 1: back and overdub and fix it and click and click whatever.

1027
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: The beas recorded the first album in nine hours. You

1028
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 1: know that was it. Yeah, let's up in first album

1029
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 1: thirty six hours, blacks I was first album twenty four hours,

1030
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 1: students first, on and on and on and on all that.

1031
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: The other side of it is that because the entry

1032
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,320
Speaker 1: bar is low, now, yes, there may be more noise

1033
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: and more not good stuff, but you might hear something

1034
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: that you might not have heard that wouldn't have made

1035
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,280
Speaker 1: the bar on a technical level, but it's a different

1036
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: kind of talent. Like when I when I hear someone

1037
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: like young Thug, it's really exciting to me. In the

1038
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:37,439
Speaker 1: old days, someone who you couldn't understand what they were saying,

1039
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: or maybe they don't even know what they're saying, might

1040
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 1: not get it, you know, might not get to record.

1041
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 1: That sounds like you, young Thug, and you evokes an

1042
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,919
Speaker 1: idea that you trust him and you believe him. Right, Yes, well,

1043
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 1: that's that's what I'm sings is when you when you

1044
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 1: believe somebody, however, whatever tricks they're using to make you

1045
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 1: think that they're believable and should be trusted, or if

1046
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: they actually are trustable, whatever it is, you trust Young Doug,

1047
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:03,919
Speaker 1: and now you're ready to open the door and listen.

1048
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: Listen to anything else he has to say. If someone

1049
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: comes out of gate and I like, I don't trust them,

1050
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: I kind of almost ex them out and I'm never

1051
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 1: going to really dig what they're doing, no matter what

1052
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 1: they do, no matter how beautiful it is, it's coming

1053
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:17,319
Speaker 1: from somebody I don't trust. So okay, on the on

1054
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: the trust front, we mentioned earlier that people who are

1055
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 1: technically great are harder to trust because there's so much

1056
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 1: craft in it, it's harder to believe them. Who are

1057
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 1: the people who you think of as technically great, yet

1058
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 1: you still trust them? That's a great question. Let me

1059
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 1: think for two beyond Brandy Carlisle, because she's right. Yeah,

1060
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 1: I think Paul McCartney maybe, I think, you know, he's

1061
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: famously the technic, the more technical one guy my favorite beatle,

1062
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 1: But what's my favorite beatle? No doubt Paul, But I

1063
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: believe him with all my heart. I mean and and

1064
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 1: a lot of times I think I'm just interested in

1065
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 1: the way that an artist evolves, even when they're older,

1066
00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 1: and how they get sort of sort of lame. It's

1067
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 1: still kind of like Paul McCarney, Like I still want

1068
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 1: to hear what he's up to, what he's doing. You know,

1069
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 1: I might include Simon and Garfuncle, even though Garfuncle is

1070
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: the voice you think of more in Simon and Garfuncle,

1071
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 1: the more recognizable voice, Yeah is Garfuncles. Paul's harmony is incredible,

1072
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 1: and Paul's songs are incredible. But when I listened to

1073
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 1: those records, I believe those words, like I I go

1074
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: with them. Yeah, there was almost these phenominalies like that

1075
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 1: that kind of started off like acts that didn't really

1076
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 1: know what they wanted to do. They knew they love music,

1077
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 1: but they didn't know what exactly their voice was, and

1078
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: they found their voice like I think Dylan. If folk

1079
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:41,320
Speaker 1: music hadn't been happening, and the same thing with the

1080
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,839
Speaker 1: Paul Simon and Garfuncle, both those acts. If folk music

1081
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: hadn't been the hot thing at that moment, they could

1082
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:47,919
Speaker 1: have easily if they'd been ten years before, they would

1083
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: have been rock and rollers like Little Richard and Jean Vincent.

1084
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:52,839
Speaker 1: I mean a matter of fact, what they were called

1085
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: Sumon Garf were called Tom and Jerry when they first

1086
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 1: came out, and they became because the folk moment. They

1087
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: became believable and down to earth and soulful folks, singers

1088
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 1: that you believed what they were saying, that they had knowledge,

1089
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:08,880
Speaker 1: they were experts about something that you didn't know about.

1090
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 1: You had that that trust in this person who's communicating

1091
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 1: to you through music. You trust them and you believe

1092
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 1: that they know something that you don't know. And by

1093
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: that and the sign of that trust is for Simon

1094
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,240
Speaker 1: and Garfunkel is by kind of the middle of their career.

1095
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: Of his career, Simon Foots gotten album called Grace Landing,

1096
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:30,879
Speaker 1: which he takes you to South Africa and writ it's

1097
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 1: about essentially people from New York City. I mean, it's

1098
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:39,359
Speaker 1: the most hilarious, brilliant you know, left hand turn, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1099
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 1: it totally works. It's probably one of the greatest albums

1100
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 1: ever made, really Graceland and and I have. I listened

1101
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 1: to it a few months ago and realize, oh my god,

1102
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:50,240
Speaker 1: there's not There's also a Zaidiko song on here, there's

1103
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 1: a Los Lobos is playing on here. It's not just African,

1104
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 1: It's like all kinds of music going on that record.

1105
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, I didn't even remember that being part

1106
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: of that record. I thought it was all just so

1107
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 1: Lady Smith, Black Mumbazo and that. But there's really a

1108
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 1: lot going on, and there's a lot of New York

1109
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: going on in there. And on top of it, you

1110
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 1: name the album Grace Awesome. There's a girl from New

1111
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 1: York City who calls himself the Human Trampoline. That's that's

1112
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: the one from Christ's like I had a I had

1113
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 1: I had like an ignorant, naive revelation in that uh,

1114
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: the Mississippi Delta was shining like a national guitar. I've

1115
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: been singing that line walking around the house for thirty

1116
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 1: years or whatever, and it was like about two three

1117
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 1: years ago, like, oh shit, a national guitar. That's a

1118
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 1: name brand of a silver dough bro which is shiny.

1119
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:39,319
Speaker 1: I thought he meant, like the big picture of the

1120
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,880
Speaker 1: royal a national guitar. We were all playing this giantantic

1121
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,880
Speaker 1: guitar together as the nation. That reference was made for

1122
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:51,320
Speaker 1: you exactly exactly, and I blew it. I'm middle it.

1123
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 1: Should we do one? Should we do one more song?

1124
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:59,359
Speaker 1: How about an only child? Kind of feeling child? Pretty cool? Yeah,

1125
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 1: this feels like a mixture of what Brendan was talking about,

1126
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 1: the personal thing, but mixed with us writing together and

1127
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 1: and it becoming a bigger song than it started as.

1128
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:14,319
Speaker 1: Maybe let me start together? Right? Yeah? I wanted to

1129
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 1: and this is my favorite lyrics. Sorry no, but I can't.

1130
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 1: We're gonna do that. I can't do the solo? And

1131
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 1: would you would you say that you care that you

1132
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:34,440
Speaker 1: give extra emphasis or extra care to the vocal line

1133
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 1: that brings in the solo? Is that a thing like

1134
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 1: the last vocal line? Right? Before the solo happens. Yeah, Yeah,

1135
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:45,879
Speaker 1: because you're sort of like, uh, you've got to set

1136
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 1: it up. Yeah, because it's uh, I think that's cool.

1137
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 1: I like to do that live, Like it's kind of

1138
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 1: it's kind of like that old school thing, like you know,

1139
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 1: it's come back home again to get his laundry done.

1140
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: Look out, look out, now go go you know you

1141
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:02,880
Speaker 1: know how that used to do that? Or you know

1142
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 1: I can play? Is that Stevie Wonder my favorite? Go

1143
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 1: Blue Caps? Go go say the name of the band.

1144
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 1: Can you imagine like Bober Plancard go, let's up and goes.

1145
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 1: Thanks to Jack White, Brendan Benson, and the rest of

1146
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 1: the Rack and Tours for hanging out and playing with us,

1147
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 1: and a special thanks to engineers this episode two, Bill

1148
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 1: Skibby and Detroit and Leonardo Beccafici aka Fresco in Italy.

1149
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: On the next episode, Rick talks with Tyler the creator

1150
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 1: about his new album Igor. Broken Record is produced with

1151
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 1: help from Jason Gambrell and Milo Bell for pushkin in

1152
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 1: the streets is it Broken Record podcast dot com for

1153
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 1: playlists from every episode and follow us on Instagram at

1154
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 1: the Broken Record. Our theme music is by Kenny Beats.

1155
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:54,920
Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmond,