1 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 1: Hey, hey, Hey, Okay, obviously this is not Tiffany, this 2 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: is Mandy. I'm filling in tonight. TIF and I will 3 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: be back together for a brand new episode next week. 4 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: We're just taking a little bit of time off this week. 5 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: You guys continue to send us your questions at Brown 6 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 1: Ambition Podcast at gmail dot com, hit us up on Twitter. 7 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: We're at the BA podcast on Twitter and at Brown 8 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: Ambition on Instagram. I wanted to introduce a really special 9 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: episode of Brown Ambition this week. I look back at 10 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: one of our top five most popular and one of 11 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: my personal favorite interviews we've ever done on the show. 12 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:53,599 Speaker 1: She's the co founder of one of the most dominant 13 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: brands in natural haircare today, Miko Branch, who joined us 14 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: a little under a year ago to talk about how 15 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: she and her sister built one of the most dominant 16 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: brands in natural hair care out of their apartment in Brooklyn. 17 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: And now, without further ado, here's our interview with Nico 18 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: Branch of Miss Jesse's Hair Care. Okay, guys, it is 19 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 1: a moment I have been waiting for. Selfishly, you guys 20 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,839 Speaker 1: have been waiting for. We finally have her on the shows. 21 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,839 Speaker 1: Nico Branch the co founder of Miss Jesse's Natural Hair Products, 22 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: Miko Goddess of the Earth, thank you so much for 23 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: coming on the show. 24 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 2: Wow, Mandy, it is so good to talk to you. 25 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 2: I understand you are a curly girl and Tiffany is 26 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 2: one two, so I'm happy to kick it with you 27 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 2: ladies about all things curls. Kingston waves. 28 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: So much inspiration, so much, so much about your story 29 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: that's inspirational. I mean, the success of the business is 30 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: one thing, but I mean you need to tell people 31 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: that you, you and your and your sister TV, who 32 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: has sadly passed away recently. You guys built this company 33 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: from scratch, no nbas, no angel investors, no crowdfunding. What 34 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: was that like? Building and before people even cared about 35 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: natural hair or saw the potential there. What was that like? 36 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 2: It was two sisters just making it happen, making ends meet, 37 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 2: being innovative, being just teach and I against the world. 38 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 2: That's what it felt like. And I don't think we 39 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 2: really lifted our heads up to understand what we were 40 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 2: doing at the time, but we did. It was clear 41 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 2: to us that we were coming up with something that 42 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 2: was going to be useful, So that made us feel 43 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: really good. So it was actually fun while we were building. 44 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 3: Did you ever like one whoa like we have something here, 45 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 3: you know, like like you know, like like I made 46 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 3: it moment we were like wow, like we're really doing this, 47 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 3: Like was there like a moment or was it kind 48 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 3: of gradual? 49 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 2: M Well, Tiffany, there were many moments. There were many 50 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 2: aha moments, And some of the first AHA moments came 51 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 2: when we discovered that we had curly but not kinky hair. 52 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: And that discovery for me was at bath time with 53 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: my son while we were struggling in our business. My 54 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 2: son splashed all around. I'm a single parent and it 55 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 2: was very important for me to be in his life. 56 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 2: So I did hair in the house and I was 57 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: also his mom in our house, and I gave him 58 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 2: baths on the fourth floor. He splashed around and I 59 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: could no longer keep my straight styled hair straight and 60 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 2: I just had to race it. That started a conversation, 61 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 2: and in that moment, I knew we had something and then, 62 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 2: you know, we had other AHA moments with the product, 63 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 2: But that was our very first understanding that it was 64 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 2: going to get interesting. 65 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: And you started doing hair, so you were always you know, 66 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: in your heart. You were stylist. But you you went 67 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: through you went you were going to go to fashion school. Right, 68 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: you went to f I T before you went to 69 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: beauty school. How did you, I mean, how what was 70 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: it that was driving you were making you think that 71 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 1: maybe not hair isn't for me, maybe I should do 72 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: something like go to fashion school. 73 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 2: Well, when I went to FI T uh it was 74 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 2: it was very unpleasant. It was not a fun experience. 75 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 2: And my education at FI T made it very clear 76 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 2: to me that this was something I did not want 77 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 2: to do. So the moment I graduated from f I 78 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 2: T I, I signed up for hair school, and I 79 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 2: understood that it's time for me to do something that 80 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 2: I like. So I ran to hear school and I 81 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 2: went to school on thirty fourth Street in the city. 82 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: And you talk in your book, which I mentioned before 83 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: in the podcast, which is an excellent sort of the 84 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: story of Miss Jesse's and of your sisterhood and how 85 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: you built the business. But you talk about the influence 86 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: of your parents and in different ways, and especially your dad. 87 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: You guys launched a cleaning company together. Is that right? 88 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: When you were like a teenager, you're running this company 89 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: with your dad. 90 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 2: Yes, we did. Our dad, Jimmy branch groom, Tity and 91 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 2: I to be entrepreneurs at a very early age. So 92 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 2: by the time we were in our late teens early twenties, 93 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 2: we took our we took a stab at becoming entrepreneurs, 94 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 2: and we were entrepreneurs. We were with our dad, and 95 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 2: that was a very interesting business because we were cleaning 96 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 2: and scrubbing toilets and doing all the dirty work. So 97 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: that was a wonderful experience for me, particular because I 98 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 2: got a chance to again understand at a very early 99 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 2: age all the things that I did not want to do. 100 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 2: So I was playing paying very close attention to that. 101 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 2: So by the time it came to make a decision 102 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 2: about what I wanted to do, it was very clear 103 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 2: to me. 104 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 4: So, Mika, I have four sisters and I have my 105 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 4: own company. They don't. 106 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 3: We're not like partners or anyway. But slowly but surely 107 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 3: I'm starting to see the talents of my sisters and. 108 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 4: How they're helping me. 109 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 3: How do you How did you manage that with t 110 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,359 Speaker 3: T like cause like so the baby Lisa, she was 111 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 3: my personal assistant. But you can guess all that worked out. 112 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 2: I'm like. 113 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 3: To eat my food and like like because she would 114 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 3: literally be like, Oh, you should nail at mommy and 115 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 3: Daddy's house. 116 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 4: I'm going to bring it and I'd be like yeah, 117 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 4: and then I get a bill like that's not that's 118 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 4: not how that worked. 119 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 3: So how did you manage like working with your because 120 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 3: I know there's obviously some great upside, but what about 121 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 3: the times when you guys had some like some difficulties. 122 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 2: We were able to manage most of the downsides because 123 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,799 Speaker 2: in the up side, there was a sister dynamic already 124 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 2: in play. See Tity was my big sister, so we 125 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 2: already had pretty much of an understanding. The downside of 126 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 2: that came when we were really locked and stuck in 127 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 2: our sister dynamic of big sister, little sister. So when 128 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 2: it came time to place blame, you know, there was 129 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 2: really no room for a big sister or a little sister. 130 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 2: You know, moment it was really that was the moment 131 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 2: that we really had to be partners and be responsible 132 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 2: for our role in the business. The only thing was 133 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 2: that it wasn't really clear to us what our role was, 134 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: so we kind of felt our way as we crawled through. 135 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 2: But you know, we we we managed to figure it out. 136 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: How long do you think it took before you guys 137 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: felt like you were in a good place and you 138 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: knew what your role was and you knew what her 139 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: hers was. And did you did you put that in writing? 140 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: Did you put it on the wall? You know, draw 141 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: a line down the floor? How did you guys do 142 00:07:58,040 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: that make that division? 143 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 2: Well, at first we did not put it in writing. 144 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 2: As I mentioned, we had a very special understanding as sisters. 145 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 2: That kind of it flowed over into our business. So 146 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: for many years we did not have a written agreement. 147 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 2: But for tax purposes, we really needed to formalize our 148 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 2: business and that led us to what do we do? 149 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 2: We did an LLC and that was our first partnership, 150 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 2: our first legal partnership, although Teethy and I didn't really 151 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 2: understand what that meant legally. We did it for tax reasons. 152 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 2: But you know, as far as a division of labor, 153 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 2: there was probably no one area that neither she nor 154 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 2: I couldn't do. I mean, we didn't have that luxury. 155 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 2: Although when we first started out, I imagine that I 156 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 2: would just be doing hair all day and my sister 157 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 2: would be handling everything else. Didn't work out that way. 158 00:08:54,960 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 2: We had to divide everything up pretty much equally, and 159 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 2: most of the time that worked for us, and sometimes 160 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 2: it was really tough on us. 161 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: When were you able to hire people to help you? 162 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 1: How long was it just you and your sister blood? 163 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: Whatt't hear twins? 164 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 4: I was literally just about the same. 165 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: We need details, Mika, we need number figures. 166 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 2: So when we first opened our business in nineteen ninety seven, 167 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 2: it was a two chair salon, and within that first year, 168 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 2: Tity and I were able to hire an assistant. We 169 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: made a profit in that first year, and we tried 170 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 2: to keep our prices at a premium and keep our 171 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 2: expenses low. With that formula, we were able to hire 172 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 2: someone within the first year, and I think in the 173 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 2: first year we went through maybe two or three assistants 174 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 2: because there's a high, high turn over an assistance. And 175 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 2: then over the years we always managed to have an 176 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 2: assistant in the salon. But when we started mixing product, 177 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 2: Tit and I we're paying attention to the signs, and 178 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 2: the signs for growth were, oh my god, our backs 179 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 2: are hurting, oh my god, we're staying up way too late, 180 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 2: and oh my god, people are ordering this stuff faster 181 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 2: than we can make it. So those signs, and we 182 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 2: call it common sense, we paid attention to them, and 183 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 2: that's when we understood we have to call someone in 184 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 2: here to help us. And before we knew it, we 185 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 2: were rocking every single floor in this brownstone, you know, 186 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 2: with some some some form of work. And we got 187 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 2: our money's worth from this purchase that we made in 188 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven in the Bedford Stuyvesant section of Brooklyn. 189 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 2: So that was a good investment. Yeah, that's where we 190 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 2: held our business down. 191 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: Hold on to that with every ounce of strength you have. 192 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 3: It reminds me of Newark, like how Newark is, Like 193 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 3: that's where I live now, and I'm trying my best 194 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 3: to buy property because i just don't want five to 195 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 3: ten years. 196 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, man, I should have. 197 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 2: It's a great investment and for too, for you know, entrepreneur, 198 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 2: it's a wonderful place to start your business. And you 199 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 2: can dual purpose set thing in so many ways, triple purpose. 200 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 2: So I encourage you to get your house. 201 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: I've got a question about that because in the book 202 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: you in the same sort of section where you're talking 203 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: about buying the house. Right before that you talk about 204 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,319 Speaker 1: a tax issue that you guys face, which I think 205 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: a lot of you know, new entrepreneurs can deal with. 206 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: Can you talk about the tax issues that you had 207 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: early early on and then sort of where the buying 208 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: property came into that later. 209 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 2: I honestly don't think TT and I had a real 210 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 2: good understanding of how taxes work in this country. And 211 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 2: we also didn't understand that we had a third partner, 212 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 2: Tit and I always thought that it was just she 213 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 2: and I in business. And because we made a profit 214 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 2: very early on, we had to break the IRS off 215 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 2: a piece, and that's a big, pretty big chunk. So 216 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 2: in the beginning, I think in the first year, we 217 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 2: had to pay a tax bill of around seventeen thousand, 218 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 2: and that was more than she and I had ever 219 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 2: paid the IRS. And we were used to the IRS 220 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 2: giving us money back. And you know, I asked TT, 221 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 2: because T was the TT knew everything Mandy and Tiffany, 222 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 2: I asked t T, do we have to always pay 223 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 2: this kind of bill? And TV said, well, the more 224 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 2: money you make, the more we have to pay in taxes. 225 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 2: And that was new news to me. And in that moment, 226 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 2: I realized that we had a third partner. So I said, tt, 227 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 2: isn't there a thing where if you buy a house 228 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 2: you have some expenses, you can offset some of those taxes. 229 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 2: And she set up and then that's when we ran 230 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 2: to Bedsty and we got that brownstone. But we purchased 231 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 2: the brownstone as a result of this new understanding of 232 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 2: how taxes work and that it wasn't just she and 233 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 2: I in business together. We had a third partner, the irs. 234 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: So you were taking advantage of some tax breaks for 235 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: first time homeowners around that time, right, yes. 236 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 2: Yes, And this is nineteen ninety nine when we bought 237 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 2: our brownstone, when Betsty was the hood. 238 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: Look at you, guys, that's incredible. I mean, I don't 239 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: think a lot of people would have been so you know, 240 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: scrappy or creative with when faced with a challenge like that. 241 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: I mean, to me, that's that's pretty extraordinary. 242 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's it's a hurting thing. 243 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 2: It hurts your feelings when you have to give up 244 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 2: that money that you work so hard for, but you 245 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 2: try to find ways to hold on to as much 246 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 2: as you can, and that was what we were thinking about. 247 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 2: So I'm so glad we did it. 248 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: Now. I talked about your dad earlier, and I wanted 249 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: to bring him up because he's a big part of 250 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: the book. He's a big part of your you know, 251 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,719 Speaker 1: he was your primary caretaker for a while. Him and 252 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: of course your your grandmother in the namesake of the company, 253 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 1: Miss Jesse herself. But I brought it up your dad 254 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: earlier because this resonated with me, because I feel like 255 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: I learned a lot from my parents' mistakes. And you 256 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: certainly talk about and are candid about watching your father 257 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: struggle with his own you know, weaknesses or you know, 258 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,479 Speaker 1: his challenges that he faced, you know, as an entrepreneur. 259 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: And what were some of the biggest lessons you learned 260 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: from seeing him sort of half his ups and downs. 261 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: He was in real estate for a while, and then 262 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: you guys, of course, you had that cleaning business, and 263 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: that was sort of a struggle. And what did you 264 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: take away from that and use as you were launching 265 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: your own business. 266 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 2: I learned that business is really about tenacity. I sat 267 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 2: and witnessed my dad have aspirations and have dreams of 268 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 2: bettering himself, bettering us, and he kept trying, you know, 269 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 2: my dad kept trying. My dad did not have formal training, 270 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 2: but he had a desire to be free, and he 271 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 2: had a desire to be his own boss. I think 272 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 2: most of his aspirations really, I think Tity and I 273 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 2: were the fruit of his dreams and his labor. I 274 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 2: think for him, although he was not able to see 275 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 2: you know, that million dollar check or that million dollar deal, 276 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 2: my dad was grooming TT and I for us to 277 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 2: really hit home runs. So we saw a very proud 278 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 2: smart man do his thing. But he wasn't perfect, and 279 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 2: we saw him make mistakes. Any entrepreneur can tell you, 280 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 2: particularly the entrepreneurs who don't have formal training, it's not pretty, 281 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 2: you know. So to be in business with, you know, 282 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 2: your very strong minded dad, that wasn't always rosie for us, 283 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 2: and you know sometimes our relationship suffered because of it. 284 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 2: I could honestly tell you, In terms of training, there 285 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 2: is no better training course than TT and I could 286 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 2: have taken or did take then for us to work 287 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 2: with our dad. He's sparred with us and he trained 288 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 2: us to be the best. So, you know, I consider 289 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 2: Ticky and I to be very fortunate, and we love him. 290 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 2: He's an amazing man. 291 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 3: What advice do you give like, because my biggest struggle 292 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 3: is work life balance. I'm recently engaged, you know, and 293 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 3: it's just like everyone's always pulling at you. 294 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 4: Me and my best friend just had an argument like 295 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 4: two days ago. 296 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 3: I totally forgot that my god son on his birthday 297 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 3: and she's like, what the hell, Tiffany? 298 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 4: And I just feel like I'm always stretched, Like, well, 299 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 4: how do you manage it all? 300 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 3: You know, and without making yourself crazy or feel guilty 301 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 3: all the time. 302 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 2: I think something's going to give, and really it will 303 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 2: go in order by itself. It really falls fall. It 304 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 2: really balls down to what's important. What's most important to you. 305 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 2: If your boyfriend or your fiance is most important, that's 306 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 2: going to get most of your attention. If your business 307 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 2: is most important, that's going to get most of your attention. 308 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 2: I think for you, you know, in terms of well 309 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:05,679 Speaker 2: what do I do and how I do it? I 310 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 2: think using common sense is the key. And you mentioned 311 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 2: the word balance. Balance is a wonderful tool, you know, 312 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 2: to put in play, but really it's about what's important 313 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 2: to you and then you'll be able to prioritize how 314 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 2: you want to handle things. So I think you should 315 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 2: pay attention to what's important and then you'll be able 316 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 2: to put everything in order. 317 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: Do you have I mean you have a you have 318 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: a son, right, he's a how old teenager? 319 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 2: Right? He's a teenager. He's sixteen. He'll be seventeen in May. 320 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: In May, Well, happy birthday to him. 321 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's proud of his seventeen. 322 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: Oh god, good luck with that. I wanted to ask 323 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,360 Speaker 1: you because I and I want to be sensitive because 324 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: I know your sister. You guys were obviously very close, 325 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: and she passed away only a couple or few years ago, 326 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: but you you talk about in the book, you know 327 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: she was more than your business partner and your sister. 328 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: She was a co parent, she was a you know, 329 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: a partner, and you know, I would love to sort 330 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: of ask you if you have advice for people out 331 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: there who are you know a lot of people go 332 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: into business with family or with you know, best friends 333 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: or partners, and sometimes the worst can happen, and one 334 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 1: of you may no longer be able to be a 335 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 1: part of the company, or may unfortunately something may happen. 336 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: Is there anything you can you know, learn from your 337 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: experience of you know, of your sister's passing that you'd 338 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: like to pass on to entrepreneurs and how they can 339 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: not prepare but protect themselves, or you know, any advice 340 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 1: for what to do after something like that happens that 341 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 1: you know, think might be useful or that you found useful. 342 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 2: Yes, Teeth and I built our business together, so there 343 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 2: wasn't really one area that she or I didn't know about. 344 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 2: So in tit's passing, It's not a new experience for 345 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 2: me to do some of the carry out some of 346 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 2: the duties that I would normally do if Tit were 347 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 2: here in her absence. Just so fortunate. I'm just so 348 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 2: fortunate to be able to carry that on. So I'm 349 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 2: really just doing what I've always done, just more of it. 350 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 2: So that that was that was something that armed me 351 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 2: with being able to carry on the business in her absence. 352 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 2: But I just wanted to back up a moment before 353 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 2: you you get to that. In choosing your partner, you 354 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 2: touch a little bit on family businesses and partnerships. You know, Mandy, 355 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 2: family doesn't always guarantee that you're going to get a 356 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 2: good partner. You know, we just spoke with Tiffany, and 357 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 2: you know, maybe out of the four sisters, one of 358 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 2: the sisters might be a better business partner than the other. 359 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 2: It's just like that. It doesn't mean that anyone's bad 360 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 2: or good. It's just really chemistry. And you know, choosing 361 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 2: a partner, you have to find someone that you have 362 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:36,439 Speaker 2: chemistry with, someone who you trust, someone who there's a 363 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 2: nice harmony going on, and I think from their decisions 364 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 2: can be made. Sometimes the decisions will go your way, 365 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 2: sometimes it will go your partner's way, and then you know, 366 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 2: sometimes you guys will both make decisions together. So I 367 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 2: think that's really important when you're choosing a partner. And 368 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 2: then all the other stuff in terms of formalizing your 369 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 2: business or you know, maybe disputes might come along, you know, 370 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 2: later on down the line. I think those things can 371 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 2: be worked out. But choosing a business partner is kind 372 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 2: of like choosing a boyfriend, you know, or a spouse. 373 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 2: You really want to find someone you like and someone 374 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 2: you have good harmony and chemistry with. 375 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: So we need to we've skipped around, I feel like 376 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 1: with your story and we haven't even so. You started 377 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: as a hairstylist in your salon, like you said, a 378 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: two chair salon. You and T T. When was it that? 379 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: I mean, you weren't making your own products from the beginning. 380 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 1: So how many years when was it that you started 381 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: making the Miss Jesse's hair care products? And how the 382 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: heck do you just do that? Do you just mix 383 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: it up in your kitchen? 384 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question, Tity and I bought our 385 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 2: Brownstone in nineteen ninety nine. I had an aha moment 386 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 2: at past time with my son, probably in two thousand, 387 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 2: during the year that he was first born. I couldn't 388 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 2: maintain my straight style here straight and that started a 389 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 2: commerce station with our clients who were coming to our house. 390 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 2: Because we'd gotten kicked out of a salon, out of 391 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 2: our two chair business that I mentioned earlier, we had 392 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 2: to refuge to our house. That was an opportunity for us, Mandy, 393 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 2: because we were pressed. We needed to pay our mortgage. 394 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,360 Speaker 2: I was a single parent and we were trying our 395 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,719 Speaker 2: best to think outside the box. That opportunity came at 396 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 2: bad time. I was always a great hairstylist, so I 397 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 2: got very good at styling curly, kinky and wavy hair, 398 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 2: and quickly I became an expert. But at the time, 399 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 2: there were no Miss Jesse's and Target, Walmart, Walgreens, CBS, 400 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 2: So what we did was we took it to our 401 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 2: kitchen table the way we saw our grandmother do as 402 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 2: she made things from scratch, you know. Teky and I 403 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 2: would sit there and mix a little bit of this 404 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 2: with a little bit of that. We would use products 405 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 2: that were on the shelf and add this and add 406 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 2: that to it. But it was Tea, around three o'clock 407 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 2: in the morning that cracked that nut and came out 408 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 2: with curly pudding. She showed me what we would all 409 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,199 Speaker 2: know to be as curly pudding. And that product was 410 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 2: a wonderful product because it did everything it said it 411 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,959 Speaker 2: was going to do. And the good news is it 412 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 2: did it without chemicals. So that was a new discovery, 413 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 2: particularly for the woman with the tighter coil curl. And 414 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 2: not only were Teity and I you know, whipping up 415 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 2: curl magic at our kitchen table, but before we knew it, 416 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 2: not only were we you know, offering solutions for women 417 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 2: and their hair, we realized that we were helping to 418 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 2: restore maybe some esteem that maybe had been bruised over 419 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 2: the years, either intentionally or unintentionally, you know, And we 420 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 2: were told that maybe our hair was bad and not good. 421 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 2: So we were doing a lot of things at once, 422 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 2: and it was a labor of love, and slowly but surely, 423 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,239 Speaker 2: you know, we built our business and tried to do 424 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 2: the best work we could with service and product. 425 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 3: You know what really touched me is when I went natural, 426 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 3: like nobody was really going now and I have, like 427 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 3: my parents are both Nigerian, so I have like really tight, 428 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 3: kinky curls, like you know, And when I went natural, 429 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 3: there was like I was just literally just typing stuff 430 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 3: on my computer, using honey in my hair, using anything 431 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 3: that you know, anyone you know shared I think it 432 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 3: Like I said, it was Naturality was literally the only 433 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,719 Speaker 3: website and so I'd be like making like products in 434 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 3: my kitchen and then my hair would look crazy and 435 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't know what to do. And when 436 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 3: I I couldn't believe when I saw your products, I thought, wait, someone's. 437 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 4: Actually making something like for us. 438 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 3: It blew me away, honestly, and it's it's surreal to 439 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 3: have you here because and I just want to thank 440 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 3: you for that. Because when I went natural, people would 441 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 3: tell me why. I remember my mom telling me, I 442 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 3: guess you never want to get married? 443 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:54,360 Speaker 4: Huh oh no. 444 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, that was like really, mommy, because you know, like 445 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 3: natural hair was not. 446 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 4: It wasn't like now everyone's doing it, it's so cool. 447 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 3: But back then it wasn't something that that, you know, 448 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 3: that women did without ridicule. You know, women with older 449 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 3: black women would stop me on the street and say, baby, 450 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 3: you're so cute. 451 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 4: Why would you do that to your hair? I'm like, dude, 452 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 4: what it literally grows. 453 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 3: Like this like talk to God, yes, exactly, exactly, bring 454 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 3: it up with Jesus, you know, so like what I mean, 455 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 3: what made When did you kind of realize, wow, so 456 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 3: many women are needing this. Was there a moment when 457 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,439 Speaker 3: you were just like I remember like a watching this 458 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 3: like story with Lisa Price when she realized whoa that like. 459 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 4: Oprah had ordered her products. When did you realize, like, wow, 460 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 4: we really hit on a nerve here that there's nothing 461 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 4: like this out here for women with hair like ours. 462 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 2: Well, our products came out during the time that women 463 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 2: just started a conversation online and at the time they 464 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 2: were called chat rooms. So you know, some of the 465 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 2: sites you visited are are where many of our customers 466 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 2: came from. And because women were chatting, if we had 467 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 2: a customer here, we would actually post before and after pictures, 468 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 2: and we would share that information and then they would 469 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 2: share it and would go up on these message boards 470 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 2: and before you know it, before we knew it, our 471 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 2: phone was ringing so much. We couldn't you know, there 472 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 2: wasn't enough hours in the day to take on everyone. 473 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 2: So the booking, you know, was way far out, so 474 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 2: we can accommodate all the interests. But you know, tity 475 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 2: and I understood that women with a tighter coil curl. 476 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 2: There was nothing for her in the market. There was 477 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 2: nothing speaking to her. There were no real, you know, solutions. 478 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 2: She had to go online and try to find someone 479 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,719 Speaker 2: to have a conversation with. And that bad time, it 480 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 2: just it was right on time. You know. We didn't intentionally, 481 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 2: you know, set out to create products like this. It 482 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 2: just kind of happened while a conversation was going on, 483 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 2: and also during the time that the Internet really just 484 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 2: started to kick off. So I think we were blessed 485 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 2: and we were just armed with the right information and 486 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 2: the right intention and I think that combination put us 487 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 2: in a position where we were able to be helpful. 488 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: Now I want to talk a little bit about the 489 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: business side of things. So you create this amazing curly pudding. 490 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: You are excited. You maybe you know, went out and 491 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: got some packages and you started bottling it up and 492 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: sharing it around. But how do you go from that? 493 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: I mean, did you need investments eventually? When did you 494 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: go big leagues? And how did you sort of bootstrap 495 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: the venture? Because like you said, you had a sun 496 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: to raise, you had a mortgage, you had bills. Yeah, 497 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 1: can you kind of speak about that? 498 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 2: Yep. So early on, Mandy Tt and I learned a 499 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 2: good lesson. It was a hard lesson. We learned that 500 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 2: it is in our best interest to have a manageable business. 501 00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 2: When we first experienced our our our success in the 502 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 2: two chair salon, we expanded to a salon around two 503 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 2: blocks up. We had two blocks up and we ended 504 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 2: up getting a place that was three sides, three times 505 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 2: the size, three times the rent, and it was just 506 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 2: too fast and too soon, and we lost it all. 507 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,199 Speaker 2: And that's we lost our business and we had to 508 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 2: refuge to this brownstone. I mean, that failure later turned 509 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 2: into a success. But there was a lesson that always, 510 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,400 Speaker 2: you know, stuck with us, and we understood that we 511 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 2: needed to have a manageable business. So what we did 512 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 2: was we kept We put a premium on our services 513 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 2: and our products, and we tried to keep our expenses down. 514 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 2: So Tit and I did a lot of sacrificing. Although 515 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 2: I was a single parent, you know, TT and I, 516 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 2: we were roommates. We shared the same car, we shared clothes. 517 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 2: TT co parented with me during the time in the nineties, 518 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 2: that was a very exciting time in New York City. 519 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 2: Many of my friends were out at the party, but 520 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 2: you know, Tik and I stayed back. We reinvested whatever 521 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 2: money we made back into the business. And the business 522 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 2: happened to be in the brownstone and the house that 523 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 2: we lived in, so we were able to dual purpose 524 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 2: many things, and we were able to be resourceful until 525 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 2: finally we were able to hire more people to help 526 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 2: us with our business. But that in combination with us 527 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 2: creating a winning product and also creating real solutions that 528 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 2: worked for people like Tiffany and for people like Miko 529 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,719 Speaker 2: and TD and Mandy. You know, there's so many of 530 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 2: us out here, And that's the thing about here. With Texture, 531 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 2: it's not just one way. There's something for everyone. And 532 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 2: I think God just gave us the magic formula to 533 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 2: come up with something that was going to be helpful. 534 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 2: All those ingredients together served us well and we were 535 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 2: able to build our business slowly but surely. Now. You 536 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 2: know I talked to you about, you know, manageability. You know, 537 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 2: by the time that we partnered up with large retailers, 538 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 2: we understood that it was important for us to grow 539 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 2: into the business slowly. A lot of us don't understand 540 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 2: that when you partner up with the wal Mart or Walgreens, 541 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 2: it can be very expensive, you know, to partner up 542 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 2: with the retailer like that. You know, you may have 543 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 2: to take out a loan in order to make you know, 544 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 2: enough curly putting to fill all seven thousand stores. So 545 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 2: growing into the business slowly was something that we were 546 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 2: being very mindful of, and I think that was part 547 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 2: of the key to us keeping our shirt on as 548 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 2: we learned this new business. So Ticky and I were 549 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 2: excellent at curly making curly pudding, excellent at styling hair, 550 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 2: but knew nothing about dealing in in retail. So what 551 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 2: an education there. But taking baby steps really helped us 552 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 2: out a lot. 553 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 3: What would you say, like was your biggest mistake, Like, 554 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 3: you know, a mistake that and then how do you 555 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 3: get over those things, like, because I think especially with women, 556 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 3: we make these mistakes and then you know, if you're 557 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 3: starting a business and you let that be the thing 558 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 3: that makes you stop. So what was your biggest challenge 559 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 3: that you had or one of them? And how do 560 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 3: you get pasted when you have these challenges? 561 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 2: I think our biggest challenge happened very early on when 562 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 2: we lost our business. I mean, you have to understand 563 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 2: as an entrepreneur, that is the ultimate form of failure 564 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 2: when you lose your business. So that happening to us 565 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 2: early on was memorable to us. But along the way, Tiffany, 566 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 2: there were so many We stumbled a lot. You know, 567 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 2: we had to learn a new business. And one thing 568 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 2: that comes to mind is when we got the opportunity 569 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 2: to be in UH, our first largest retailer. We ended 570 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 2: up going in and we were so excited we signed 571 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:13,719 Speaker 2: every contract with no attorney present and yeah, and you know, 572 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 2: that industry has been an industry that's you know, everything 573 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 2: is pretty much in place, and people have ways in 574 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 2: which they've they've they've done business and who are Tty 575 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 2: and I to come along and say anything. But we 576 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 2: managed to create a space where we can survive while 577 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 2: doing business with some of our large retailers, and we 578 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 2: were able to go back in and renegotiate terms that 579 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,959 Speaker 2: made sense for a small business of our size. And 580 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 2: I think that you know, those terms made all the 581 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 2: difference when it came time for us to do business 582 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 2: with our new partners. 583 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: When was the first time you saw Miss Jesse's in 584 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: a store? 585 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 2: Okay, so the first time I saw Miss Jesse's in 586 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 2: a store. It was actually a store that Tt and 587 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 2: I chose. People were ringing our doorbells, like late in 588 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 2: the evening, early in the morning when we lived here 589 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 2: in Brooklyn on on Hancock Street. So we needed to 590 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 2: find a place a retailer, and we ended up going 591 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 2: to this place called Soda Fun in the Fort Green 592 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 2: section of Brooklyn. But it was a thrift store, a 593 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 2: cool thrift store on decalb Avenue, and that was the 594 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 2: first place that sold our product. Then there was a 595 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 2: store that I loved. It was called it is called Ricky's. 596 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 2: And Ricky's had everything from like cost Halloween costumes to 597 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 2: cool makeup or rare you know, a hairstyling products. It 598 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 2: had a little bit of everything. And one day we 599 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 2: went in there I had my son, he was around five, 600 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 2: and we went in there and we bum rushed the 601 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 2: stock man and we asked them why he didn't have 602 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 2: Missus Jesse's there, and we asked him to hook us 603 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 2: up and he. 604 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,400 Speaker 1: Did not, telling him that it was your product. 605 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 2: Oh, we told him this, yeah, hook a sister up. 606 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 2: We want to be in here. Who do we talk to? 607 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 2: Let us know blah blah blah. And he told us 608 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 2: everything he knew and we gave him a case of 609 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 2: product and we told him to pass it on and 610 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 2: he did. Next thing, you know, we got a call 611 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 2: and apparently Ricky's they had a meeting every Tuesday where 612 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,359 Speaker 2: they analyzed you know, new product or you know, had 613 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,839 Speaker 2: those kinds of meetings, and they made their first order 614 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,280 Speaker 2: and they had twenty five stores. So that was huge 615 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 2: for us. That was our first large distribution. So that 616 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 2: was our next step of growth. And then ultimately when 617 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,720 Speaker 2: we saw our product on the end cap in Target 618 00:34:54,960 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 2: at the Atlantic Terminal location in Brooklyn, that was that 619 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 2: was larger than life for us. And you know, the 620 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 2: rest is history. 621 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 1: Do you feel like it's been a couple I mean 622 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: nearly two decades since you know, the beginning of Miss Jessie's. 623 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: Do you feel like you're in a place now where 624 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,320 Speaker 1: you are you're comfortable financially, you don't have to worry anymore, 625 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: or do you sort of still feel that early, you know, entrepreneurial. 626 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: I don't know if anxiety is too strong of a word, 627 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 1: but yeah, where's your what's your mindset like now with 628 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: the company? 629 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:33,280 Speaker 2: Yeah? So it goes, It goes in phases. There's days 630 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 2: I feel like I'm a brand new entrepreneur and I 631 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 2: feel really scrappy, and then there's other days where I 632 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 2: realized that, you know, Tiky and I have put in 633 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 2: the hard work and today's a day where we're to 634 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 2: enjoy the fruits of our labor. So it all depends 635 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 2: on the day. And I mean, what a wonderful position 636 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 2: to be in there. There are times when we're able 637 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 2: to enjoy it. But as an entrepreneur, the work is 638 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 2: never done. And because we still own our business one 639 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 2: and I don't know if you guys know, I still 640 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,320 Speaker 2: refer to our business as our and we because tit's 641 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 2: still here with me. But you know, I I've just 642 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 2: lost track of my thought right now just thinking about 643 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 2: t T. Let's see where was I Mandy. 644 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,359 Speaker 1: We're just talking about how you have to take time 645 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 1: to enjoy all the work you put in. 646 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 2: Yes, as an entrepreneur, it's not uncommon for you to 647 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 2: be working twenty four hours a day. It's not uncommon 648 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 2: for you to be a multitasker. And there were so 649 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 2: many years where Teaky and I were making the money, 650 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 2: but we weren't enjoying it. And now, particularly after Tek's passing, 651 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:56,439 Speaker 2: I make happiness and health and enjoyment a priority right 652 00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 2: up there with business, because you know, business can be 653 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,759 Speaker 2: good one day and then be bad the next, and 654 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 2: you know, while you have it, you have to enjoy it. 655 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 2: So I have you know, I'm fortunate to be able 656 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 2: to pick my mood, you know, all depending on how 657 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 2: the day is going. 658 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: What's that? What's your guilty pleasure? What do you like 659 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: to treat yourself to? 660 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 2: Oh my god, I love to eat. 661 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,879 Speaker 1: I respect you so much more. 662 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 2: I love to eat and I love sweets, and you know, 663 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,840 Speaker 2: I you know, it's not just eating just to you know, 664 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 2: do something like I really enjoy like textures and flavors, 665 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:43,840 Speaker 2: so I really enjoy the experience of eating. And yeah, 666 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 2: that's that's my thing. And I don't. I don't. I 667 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,919 Speaker 2: love salt and I love sugar too, so I love 668 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:50,600 Speaker 2: the whole thing. 669 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 1: So back to this thing about health, you balance. 670 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 2: The well, you know. It's so it's so funny. I've 671 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 2: been I love to to so living in Brooklyn, we 672 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 2: have the bridges, so I walk over the bridge. Our 673 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,240 Speaker 2: business is now in the city, so it's not uncommon 674 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 2: for me to walk over the bridge to the city 675 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 2: and back home. I try to walk in between because 676 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 2: you know, it's not uncommon for me to have, you know, 677 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,839 Speaker 2: eaten some dark chocolate with some almonds that I love. 678 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 2: So I'll try to offset that with a good walk. 679 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,439 Speaker 2: And I love to ride my bike. Those are my two. 680 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 2: The workouts and the classes. That's so challenging for me. 681 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,800 Speaker 2: I hate that stuff, but I try to push myself. 682 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 2: But I just try to keep moving, you know, the 683 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:37,719 Speaker 2: best I can. 684 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: I love that you're just out there in Brooklyn biking around. 685 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,320 Speaker 1: I might need to. I'm not going to be weird. 686 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 2: Every listen, every every everyone in Brooklyn. I mean, you know, 687 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 2: everyone in Brooklyn. It has a community feel. We're all 688 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,839 Speaker 2: trying to do something and it's cool to be out 689 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,319 Speaker 2: and to be seen in Brooklyn. So it's it's you 690 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,160 Speaker 2: can style and look cute while you are in your 691 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,759 Speaker 2: bike out of here in Brooklyn. So don't don't get 692 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:03,240 Speaker 2: me wrong. 693 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,319 Speaker 3: Now, I'm glad you said that, because finding time to 694 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 3: exercise God is so challenging. 695 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, yes it can be, but you know, as 696 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,799 Speaker 2: we're getting older, it is a priority. And I say 697 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 2: that with all my heart, as much as I hated, 698 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 2: I try to move move it around because I want 699 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:22,759 Speaker 2: you know, if you don't use it, you'll lose it 700 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,520 Speaker 2: and done. Like I said, you know, life is short. 701 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 2: So when I get to be in my sixties or seventies, 702 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 2: you know, I do want to be I want to 703 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,839 Speaker 2: have my mobility. That that's become a new concern of mine. 704 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:36,280 Speaker 2: So I'm trying to keep it moving. 705 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:38,280 Speaker 4: Well. I hear it in your voice. 706 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,400 Speaker 3: I mean, because I know a lot of businesswomen who 707 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:45,000 Speaker 3: have gotten very successful and somehow have like lost touch 708 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,919 Speaker 3: with you know, the why of why they started, and 709 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 3: they've kind of like there's no humility left. 710 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 4: I guess for lack of a better word, how do 711 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 4: you I mean, I can hear it, and I'm. 712 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 3: Sure you can feel it, Mandy, that you know, Miko 713 00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 3: you seem so humble and so down there, Like, how 714 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 3: do you maintain that with all the success. 715 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,480 Speaker 2: I come from a very humble family. My mom is 716 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:13,919 Speaker 2: a Buddhist monk. Now, our dad struggled, you know, as 717 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 2: he tried to figure out, you know, all the ins 718 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:21,919 Speaker 2: and outs of being or becoming a different entrepreneur, because 719 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 2: he tried many different things. Our grandmother was a woman 720 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 2: who was down to earth. She kept it absolutely one 721 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,800 Speaker 2: hundred And I think Tiky and I we're a product 722 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 2: of those kinds of people. I raise my son that way. 723 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:44,920 Speaker 2: I think it's best. And I don't think money should 724 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 2: change that dynamic. I think money is a tool that 725 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,680 Speaker 2: you can use to do many things. But I don't 726 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 2: think that money has much to do with character or 727 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:01,239 Speaker 2: your personality or your decision may when it comes to 728 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 2: many things. How about that? 729 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 1: I feel like money almost brings out exactly who you are, 730 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 1: how you what When you put a pile of money 731 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,520 Speaker 1: or success in front of somebody, you'll find out very 732 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,439 Speaker 1: quickly sort of what kind of person they are, Yeah, 733 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 1: based on how they how they use that and approach it. 734 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,400 Speaker 1: And it sounds like you've got such a good sense 735 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 1: of of that and what matters and and all of that. 736 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,200 Speaker 1: And I mean one of the things that we're candid 737 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 1: on the show. We're very candid, almost to the point 738 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 1: of it's it's you know, it's borderline tm I. 739 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,200 Speaker 4: But let's be let's be real. 740 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,280 Speaker 1: People know too much. I sometimes I forget how candid 741 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,319 Speaker 1: we are, and then someone's like, Mandy, I'm so glad 742 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,279 Speaker 1: you talked about couple's therapy. And I'm like, say, how 743 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: do you know that about my life? Oh? So I do. 744 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,640 Speaker 1: I have been talking about you know, you know, I'm 745 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 1: planning a wedding, and we sort of both are in 746 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 1: you know, Tiffany's an entrepreneur and I'm a I'm a 747 00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 1: manager for a personal finance news site, and it's you know, 748 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:03,840 Speaker 1: we talk about the anxieties and the ups and downs. 749 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:08,000 Speaker 1: And I've found this year, more than ever, it's been 750 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 1: important for me to kind of protect my brain, protect 751 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,319 Speaker 1: my mind and like take some like mental self care. 752 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 1: And I just wonder if there's anything that you do 753 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: to sort of like keep your mind right or are 754 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:23,280 Speaker 1: you always just so zen and wise and like balanced. 755 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:29,880 Speaker 2: No, not always anything. I'm still growing and I'm still changing, 756 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,319 Speaker 2: but I'm very protective of my mind, and I'm very 757 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 2: protective of my space and I like to choose wisely 758 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,840 Speaker 2: when it comes to the people that I surround myself around. 759 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,240 Speaker 2: I find people with good hearts, whether they're the people 760 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 2: that I work with, the people that I do business with, 761 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 2: in my personal relationship. It really affects me, and it 762 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,040 Speaker 2: affects me in more ways than I realize. And as 763 00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:00,759 Speaker 2: I get older, I find that it's important important that 764 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:06,520 Speaker 2: I am mindful of what, what who I surround myself with, 765 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,239 Speaker 2: and what what kinds of environments I've placed myself in. 766 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 2: So if I were to have any control over anything 767 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,640 Speaker 2: like that, I try my hardest to manage that space. 768 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:26,400 Speaker 2: But you know, therapy is something that I've been enjoying. 769 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:32,000 Speaker 2: I've done it for the past two years, and particularly 770 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 2: after Teki died, I thought it was really important that 771 00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,719 Speaker 2: I speak with someone. But what I found about therapy 772 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 2: is that it's not just a place for people who 773 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:50,439 Speaker 2: are having major issues challenges, although it's a wonderful place 774 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 2: for people if they are having those those you know, 775 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 2: those challenges, but it's a wonderful place just to have 776 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 2: a standing appointment for you to let your hair down 777 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:06,440 Speaker 2: and talk about whatever you want to talk about. Hopefully 778 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:11,319 Speaker 2: the person you're talking to you don't have too much 779 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 2: of a personal relationship with them where they'd be offended. 780 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,080 Speaker 2: Although it's not uncommon for us to get attached to 781 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,440 Speaker 2: our therapists. But I find it's been very helpful to 782 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 2: me and it's therapy has helped helped me to articulate 783 00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 2: how I feel, what I want, and it's been It's 784 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,920 Speaker 2: been a helpful tool for me in many areas, including business. 785 00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,960 Speaker 2: So it's a way for me to practice how to 786 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,080 Speaker 2: articulate what's in my mind, and it made me a 787 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:45,640 Speaker 2: better communicator. So therapy has been it's been great. But 788 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:50,160 Speaker 2: as I'm getting older, I feel like I'm getting wiser 789 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 2: because I feel like I'm able to look at things 790 00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:56,640 Speaker 2: more three dimensionally and I have more context now and 791 00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:01,319 Speaker 2: I'm able to look at things more. So I try 792 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,200 Speaker 2: to apply it as best as it can. 793 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,399 Speaker 1: If you could go back and talk to yourself when 794 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,239 Speaker 1: you were twenty, maybe when you were miserable in f 795 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,800 Speaker 1: I T. Or when you were you know, just trying 796 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:15,040 Speaker 1: to start your haircare business, or you know, in beauty school, 797 00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,280 Speaker 1: dealing with the drama that you talk about in your book. 798 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 1: Some cat fights in beauty school. It was actually really funny. 799 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,040 Speaker 1: But what would you what advice would you give to 800 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,800 Speaker 1: your younger self? I know, I like I like asking 801 00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,520 Speaker 1: people that question. I feel like it's I think we'd 802 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:32,200 Speaker 1: all like a chance to kind of go back and 803 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,080 Speaker 1: give our younger selves a hug. But yeah, what would 804 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:36,120 Speaker 1: you tell your younger self? 805 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 2: I would tell a younger Miko that it's okay to 806 00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:48,279 Speaker 2: be me. And for many years I felt ashamed. I've 807 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:54,280 Speaker 2: felt embarrassed about being pink. I'm really really pink and 808 00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,200 Speaker 2: very girly. And I was raised by a dad who 809 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,120 Speaker 2: I think he was scared to death of my pinkness. 810 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:06,279 Speaker 2: He thought that that may have been weakness, and I 811 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,319 Speaker 2: think he didn't want anyone to really hurt me. And 812 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,960 Speaker 2: as a result, I think my dad might have been 813 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:17,000 Speaker 2: a little harder on me in those areas. So I 814 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:21,879 Speaker 2: was ashamed of being a girl girlish and feminine, and 815 00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:26,279 Speaker 2: some of the areas that I really excelled and were, 816 00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,960 Speaker 2: you know, beauty, you know, hair, beauty, makeup, And I 817 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:35,799 Speaker 2: wish that I owned it and embraced it as a 818 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,360 Speaker 2: younger me go and I think that would have given 819 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:42,680 Speaker 2: me a different kind of confidence. My sister was always 820 00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,960 Speaker 2: very smart. TV read every single encyclopedia in our house. 821 00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:50,040 Speaker 2: And I think that TT had a wonderful confidence and 822 00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,120 Speaker 2: posture as a younger TT because she was able to 823 00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:57,080 Speaker 2: attach herself to something she was good at. And I 824 00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,000 Speaker 2: would have liked to have known that it was okay, 825 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,400 Speaker 2: hey for me to be me, and I think that 826 00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:04,240 Speaker 2: I would have been a more confident Meeka. 827 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,160 Speaker 1: Well, it has been such a pleasure talking to you. 828 00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,840 Speaker 1: It has been I'm such a fan. You have no idea. 829 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:12,799 Speaker 1: Mss Jessie's is such a big part of my life 830 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:14,560 Speaker 1: and it's it's and when you and you know I 831 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,040 Speaker 1: it's easy to like kind of roll your eyes at 832 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:20,880 Speaker 1: you know, black women when we talk about our hair 833 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,400 Speaker 1: and how important it is, but it truly is life 834 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,279 Speaker 1: changing when you have when you feel like, you know, 835 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,279 Speaker 1: you can take pride in your hair for once and 836 00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,239 Speaker 1: you know, and just so thank you for taking a 837 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,759 Speaker 1: chance and for making these products and for you know, 838 00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:38,200 Speaker 1: keeping Tet's spirit alive and continuing on. Yeah, thank you 839 00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,160 Speaker 1: so much, and for coming on our little show especially. 840 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:46,239 Speaker 2: Oh no, it's my pleasure. I enjoy meeting and talking 841 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:51,000 Speaker 2: with particularly women and hearing how you guys are doing 842 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:56,359 Speaker 2: your thing. I wish tit and I had had more 843 00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:59,440 Speaker 2: friends like you guys as we were building our business, 844 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,640 Speaker 2: we were building it, it just it seemed like it 845 00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:04,560 Speaker 2: was just she and I. 846 00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,440 Speaker 1: But if you ever need to test, Johnny, I'll sign 847 00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:12,959 Speaker 1: right up. Are you available for Savannah April sevens? Would 848 00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,040 Speaker 1: you like to come and test my hair and my. 849 00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:26,480 Speaker 4: Randy? 850 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:28,760 Speaker 1: She's so sweet? Is she real? 851 00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:29,560 Speaker 3: I know? 852 00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 4: Honestly, I was like I wanted to be like, can 853 00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:33,040 Speaker 4: you be my friend? But I was like, let me not. 854 00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:35,799 Speaker 1: Can just keep you in my pocket when I'm having 855 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:36,280 Speaker 1: a bad. 856 00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,240 Speaker 4: Day, Like do you want to go to dinner or coffee? 857 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,120 Speaker 1: Or I want to be like, I'll be your friend. 858 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:41,399 Speaker 1: Are you looking for friends? Do you want? 859 00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:43,239 Speaker 4: I'm free? 860 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,960 Speaker 3: I'm available, Like it's that's what I you know, she 861 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,880 Speaker 3: is a reminder of that's what I want to aspire to. 862 00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,440 Speaker 3: That like despite the you know, as you've become more 863 00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,400 Speaker 3: and more successful, that same energy that she gives up, 864 00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,400 Speaker 3: that same genuineness and kindness and you can still feel 865 00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,520 Speaker 3: it and see it. And I'm like, you know that 866 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,960 Speaker 3: it's possible to maintain that and be wildly successful. 867 00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,400 Speaker 4: And I'm just so glad. She's an awesome example, Like 868 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,239 Speaker 4: what an awesome, awesome, amazing, like spirit wow. 869 00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,640 Speaker 1: Ya, well I can't wait to use my curly pudding 870 00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,759 Speaker 1: in the ward. How often do you get to meet 871 00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:18,040 Speaker 1: the person who changed your hair? 872 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,759 Speaker 3: I'm like, I know, that's yeah, that was a good, 873 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:27,000 Speaker 3: good choice, Mandy,