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Speaker 1: As the integration with Credit Sweet came, I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: as the sale of the century. Just to remind people,

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Speaker 1: ULYS had a very viable strategy of its own prior

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Speaker 1: to the events of March the fifteenth, and in the

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Speaker 1: end we were faced to the position where we felt

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Speaker 1: the right thing to do for the system and also

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Speaker 1: for our stakeholders was to step in and effectively rescue

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Speaker 1: Credit Suite, and we all benefited from that because the consequences.

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Speaker 2: Of resolution, which could.

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Speaker 1: Have happened unequivocally, and the FSB has said that too,

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Speaker 1: would have meant significant contagion and the system. So the

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Speaker 1: result then, since the deal's now going quite well, everybody's

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Speaker 1: saying it was the sale of the century, but at

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Speaker 1: the time it was actually a very high risk.

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Speaker 2: Problem to deal with. The integration is going very well.

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Speaker 1: I was very lucky we as a board and the

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Speaker 1: shareholders were very lucky to get Surgero or Modback who

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Speaker 1: knew the bank inside out and already downsized in the

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Speaker 1: relevant areas.

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Speaker 2: And this is a massive integration.

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Speaker 1: As I said, it's the first time ever to g

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Speaker 1: Ciphies or G Sibbs as then out Goold we're put

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Speaker 1: together the market likes what we're doing so far. The

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Speaker 1: relatively easy bit was done first, which was the initial downsizing.

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Speaker 1: But to put it in context, Stephanie, as you know,

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Speaker 1: credits Fees had one one hundred legal subsidiaries, so very messy,

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Speaker 1: convoluted organizational structure.

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Speaker 2: And as anybody who's done integration.

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Speaker 1: Knows, that's the bit you need to tackle to get

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Speaker 1: the costs out. So I think twenty twenty four is

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Speaker 1: going to be a very hard year of heavy lifting

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Speaker 1: to as we publicly said, merge the parent banks by June,

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Speaker 1: merged the significant subsidiaries by June, and then we can

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Speaker 1: start really attacking those allocated and stuck costs.

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Speaker 2: So you mentioned June.

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Speaker 3: Is that going to be a sort of key mar

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Speaker 3: stone that Cherilders and others should be looking at, or

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Speaker 3: when will you say, actually we have now done the

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Speaker 3: hard work.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think we've done the hard work and the

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Speaker 1: exit of twenty twenty six when we've given our exit

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Speaker 1: rate and our costing can ratio goals, and our the

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Speaker 1: full of costs that we'll take out. But I think

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Speaker 1: as we get through twenty twenty four organizationally, we'll be

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Speaker 1: in a much better position and then we can really

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Speaker 1: start tackling a lot of stock costs.

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Speaker 2: There was a lot of talk.

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Speaker 3: The start of people trying to get to grips with

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Speaker 3: the extent of the outflows and credit space, how they

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Speaker 3: were being dealt with. So what's the Are you confident

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Speaker 3: that that is all behind you now that you have

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Speaker 3: and you've resulted?

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Speaker 1: I think so we showed in Q three and Q

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Speaker 1: and we will show that those outflows slowed down and

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Speaker 1: in fact reversed. We actually have had new money both

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Speaker 1: in the deposit channels as well as the wealth management channels.

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Speaker 1: So we're confident that we're rebuilding that now. The degree

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Speaker 1: to which we can make up all of that loss,

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Speaker 1: we don't know. I mean, obviously clients had other alternatives.

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Speaker 1: There were some funds went to the Swiss conternal banks,

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Speaker 1: some of the foreign banks, particularly in Asia.

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Speaker 2: Gathered some of those moneys from Credit Suite.

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Speaker 1: But we feel pretty optimistic now that people feel very

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Speaker 1: comfortable with UBS as a brand.

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Speaker 3: One of the questions that people had having seen and

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Speaker 3: obviously there had been problems with Credit suitee building up

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Speaker 3: they've been approached to there have been a risk, a

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Speaker 3: tolerance for risk or risk appetite that was certainly different

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Speaker 3: from UBS. How are you finding it as you on

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Speaker 3: board the credit switee clients that adjustment of risk appetite,

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Speaker 3: How is it working well?

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Speaker 1: I think Credit Suite had four different businesses, so you

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Speaker 1: have to specify where the issues were, and I've been

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Speaker 1: very public about the issues that Credit Suite were in

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Speaker 1: the investment bank, by and large, that's where we have

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Speaker 1: the cultural issues.

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Speaker 2: That's where the losses had been made. That's where I

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Speaker 2: felt that had been bad behavior. What we've now got

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Speaker 2: with the integration is credit SEEZ.

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Speaker 1: People who come into more UBS feel very comfortable with UBS,

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Speaker 1: so it is a one firm. I think Sergio has

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Speaker 1: done a good job of welcoming people. I was pretty

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Speaker 1: outspoken at the time about the cultural risks, and I

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Speaker 1: do believe that culture is a defining challenge for any institution.

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Speaker 1: But on the whole, we've been pleasantly surprised by what

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Speaker 1: we've got. The Swiss Bank is very similar to UBS,

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Speaker 1: so that's kind of plug and play from a cultural

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Speaker 1: point of view. The asset management division wasn't really big

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Speaker 1: enough to make a difference, and the wealth management business

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Speaker 1: our certain.

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Speaker 2: Areas has just been added on.

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Speaker 1: As you know, we did downsize the investment bank, and indeed,

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Speaker 1: in fairness to accidentally, they've been trying to downsize the

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Speaker 1: investment bank credits suite anyway.

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Speaker 2: So to a large extent, a lot of bad actors.

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Speaker 1: Had gone, and the people we've brought in on the

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Speaker 1: whole have actually, you know, it is worked quite well.

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Speaker 2: We've been quite surprised, just sort of stepping back a bit.

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Speaker 3: I mean you talk about there were various outcomes that

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Speaker 3: could have happened with credit squeeze. I mean, one overwhelming

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Speaker 3: people feeling that people had after was Wow, this has

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Speaker 3: been building in kind of plain sight for a long time.

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Speaker 3: And I know that you had sort of been preparing

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Speaker 3: quietly for sort of whatever was going to happen with

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Speaker 3: credit space, because it was obvious that something was going

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Speaker 3: to come to a head. What lessons do you looking back?

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Speaker 3: Do you think the regulators should have been tougher? Should

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Speaker 3: they now be tougher? I mean it's hard to see

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Speaker 3: and exactly obviously there isn't going to be the same

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Speaker 3: situation arise because there's no other big bank in Switzerland,

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Speaker 3: But should they be taking lessons from that whole?

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Speaker 1: Well, as you know there is a parliamentary investigation at

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Speaker 1: the moment, and there are all sorts of other rapports

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Speaker 1: coming through, some interesting, some not so interesting. There's a

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Speaker 1: little bit of revisionism going on from certain quarters, I think,

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Speaker 1: and I've said this before, I don't think the regulators

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Speaker 1: had sufficient powers in Switzerland to enforce compliance.

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Speaker 2: It's very clear that Findnman knew what was going.

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Speaker 1: On and had worn the board and management at Credit Suite,

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Speaker 1: but for some reason Credit Site management and board did

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Speaker 1: not respond sufficiently. So I think we'll deal with that,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, the Finance Finister didn't speak about this yesterday.

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Speaker 1: I'm an interview with Francine, so let's not jump to that.

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Speaker 1: But the big message here is that there was clearly

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Speaker 1: a failure by board, management and the shareholders of Credit

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Speaker 1: Suite to hold Credit Suite accountable for a viable business model. Now,

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's the duty of regulators to a

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Speaker 1: pine or police a business model. I think that is

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Speaker 1: the duty of board and shareholders, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: one of the big lessons we'll learn here. How is

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Speaker 1: that achieved going forward? There are ways regulators can reinforce that.

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Speaker 1: The UK is the senior manager regime. The occ in

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Speaker 1: the US as camels the asset learnings where they can

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Speaker 1: police it. But ultimately I think shareholders have to be

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Speaker 1: far more active and hold board's much more accountable, which

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Speaker 1: is why I'm a big supporter of the senior manager

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Speaker 1: regime or something like that in Switzerland.

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Speaker 2: And will are the risks live?

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Speaker 3: If you're looking in the financial system broadly, quite a

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Speaker 3: lot of optimism now relative to maybe six months ago

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Speaker 3: among the streets of Davos.

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Speaker 2: What would you worry about? What do we do? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Last time I said this, I got into trouble and

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Speaker 1: one of my major investors immediately jumped in and homed

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Speaker 1: in an area.

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Speaker 2: I just want to make a general point.

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Speaker 1: Since two thousand and eight, there has been a massive

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Speaker 1: movement of assets from the regulated banking sector into the NBFI,

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Speaker 1: the so called shadow banking sector. The numbers are two

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Speaker 1: hundred and twenty trillion to two hundred and forty trillion dollars.

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Speaker 1: All I'm saying is that since that sector is not

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Speaker 1: sufficiently regulated by definition, that is where you will probably

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Speaker 1: see crisis coming out. I'm not sure those crises would

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Speaker 1: be systemic. I think there'll be more of a fiduciary nature,

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Speaker 1: but they can have a waterfall effects. So I do think,

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Speaker 1: and we know that the FSB is now looking at

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Speaker 1: shadow banking and seeing if they can get more visibility

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Speaker 1: into it. So I'm not going to pick up one

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Speaker 1: specific asset class in that sector.

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Speaker 2: It could be anywhere.

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Speaker 1: And Mark ran back on your immediately behind it, and

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Speaker 1: John Ray and everybody else, and I did not talk

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Speaker 1: about private credit.

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Speaker 2: They did. I'm not sure that the one and a

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Speaker 2: half trillion.

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Speaker 1: Dollar private credit market is particularly systemic, but the point

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Speaker 1: is that these things can have a snowball effect. So

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Speaker 1: I do think that regulators are looking in the wrong place.

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Speaker 1: Looking to over regulate the banks, looking for more capital

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Speaker 1: in the banking system is the wrong issue.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to push back a bit on this because

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Speaker 3: obviously it's not in isolation that we've decided to regulate

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Speaker 3: banks much more than these other institutents. It's because actually,

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Speaker 3: now several times of looking, it's been harder to identify

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Speaker 3: systemic or serious risks in the non banking sector, largely

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Speaker 3: because of the lack of leverage.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm speaking as an economist.

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Speaker 3: It's very hard to get a big crisis without a

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Speaker 3: lot of leverage. And if you look at the banking

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Speaker 3: system has a structural way that they can then make

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Speaker 3: it very easily turn some financial problem into a broader

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Speaker 3: economic problem that you just don't see in these institutions.

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Speaker 2: So they have to be breaking the law.

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Speaker 3: When you talk about a fiduciary crisis, they have to

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Speaker 3: be exercising fraud on quite a grand scale.

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Speaker 1: No fiduciary crisis can moost be duty of care. It's

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Speaker 1: not breaking the law. It's still advised management. It's getting

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Speaker 1: into exotica that hasn't been sufficient.

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Speaker 2: So let's give you an example.

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Speaker 1: Crypto happened not to be a crisis because that three

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Speaker 1: point six trillion dollars market capitalization of the peak had

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Speaker 1: not got into the mainstream of financial housekeeping, if you want.

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Speaker 1: But if it had had, although it wasn't breaking the law,

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Speaker 1: it could have had a snowball effect. So I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, just for the because the regulators say that

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Speaker 1: we know banks and there's leverage there and by the way,

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Speaker 1: eight happened, right, which I accept banks needed more capital

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Speaker 1: and so on, just to say as indeed, one senior

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Speaker 1: regulator said to me, the more we get assets out

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Speaker 1: of the banking sector to shadow banking. We don't care

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Speaker 1: because there's no leverage is actually missing the point in

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Speaker 1: many ways. And by the way, there is implicit leverage

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Speaker 1: in low investment grade products and so on, by definition.

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Speaker 2: Is part of the capital stack. I guess it comes back.

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Speaker 3: It comes back to I mean, of course you're right,

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Speaker 3: and then I think the focus would have to be

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Speaker 3: on specific areas, particularly if you have very liquid assets

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Speaker 3: that are being claimed to be easily tradable and liquid.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sort of thing.

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Speaker 3: But I guess I guess it's just that the other

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Speaker 3: The main point is just because something is a lot

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Speaker 3: of money doesn't mean that maybe we should be paying

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Speaker 3: a bit more attention to it, but doesn't mean immediately

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Speaker 3: that it has to be regulated more because it may

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Speaker 3: have underlying assets.

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Speaker 1: No, what I'm saying is, if you don't know what

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Speaker 1: the risks are in that two hundred and twenty to

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Speaker 1: two hundred and forty trillion dollar pool, that's probably a

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Speaker 1: little bit of an oversight.

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Speaker 3: So the interesting challenge that you have at the moment

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Speaker 3: is people think that you should be trying to make

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Speaker 3: targeting more higher return, making more money. Do you think

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Speaker 3: you're not ambitious enough. Yes, the return, yes ubs some returnal.

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Speaker 1: We have given you know, a fifteen percent target exit

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Speaker 1: ro E at the end of.

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Speaker 2: Twenty twenty six, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, as a as a as a guideline, and obviously

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Speaker 1: there maybe upside on that. I think we are not

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Speaker 1: being cautious. I think we're being very practical. I've also

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Speaker 1: said all along that you is a global bank, it

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Speaker 1: is a wealth manager primarily. It's very important on March

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Speaker 1: the nineteenth that we restricted the amount of our capital

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Speaker 1: that we would put at risk in the investment bank

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Speaker 1: and took it down from where it was.

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Speaker 2: So if we look at where our goals.

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Speaker 1: Are, we look at people like Morgan Stanley who gave

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Speaker 1: their earnings yesterday and reaffirm their own rot targets at

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Speaker 1: twenty percent. So I think that there's plenty of room

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Speaker 1: for UVS to perform and perform well. But rather than

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Speaker 1: over promising, let's integrate the two operations. Then let's get

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Speaker 1: a proper, pro former business. And then by twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: six we have proven the case, and I think then

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Speaker 1: there is significant upside for UVS because.

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Speaker 3: If you look across the market, I mean, with so

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Speaker 3: much focus on the wealth management where you can reliably

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Speaker 3: get returns with a two in front of it and

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Speaker 3: not a one. I mean, is that what you're expect?

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Speaker 3: Would you be disappointed if you weren't getting to that

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Speaker 3: over the next I.

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Speaker 1: Think we've given guidance that were comfortable to Sting for

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Speaker 1: the time being, and my view is it's always better

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Speaker 1: to be cautious in the guidance you give.

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Speaker 2: And if you over deliver, that's great.

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Speaker 3: Have you thought about moving the primary listening to the US?

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Speaker 3: You could probably moving the primary listing to the US.

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Speaker 3: No kind of thing that blue people are bloomberg think about.

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Speaker 2: No, you don't have to be quite a good headline,

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Speaker 2: though I quite like it.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know it's I thought, I just check, you know,

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Speaker 1: which is just get lynched in Barnhofstras.

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Speaker 2: No. I can see.

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Speaker 3: I can see there would be certain challenges attached to it,

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Speaker 3: but as a straight you would also can see how

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Speaker 3: you would get an immediate valuation boo. And of course

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Speaker 3: we're seeing we are seeing some of that movement going

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Speaker 3: across the lad and I.

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Speaker 1: Think there is huge value to being Switzerland and Swiss based.

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Speaker 1: March the fifteenth, Switzerland faced potential huge embarrassment in financial markets.

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Speaker 1: By March the nineteenth, when the deal was done, Switzerland

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Speaker 1: had reaffirmed because it had a strong savior in UBS,

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Speaker 1: that Switzerland is the center of global wealth management. There

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Speaker 1: is a significant calling card for Switzerland. So that's why

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Speaker 1: I get somewhat irritated when people say the bank's balance

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Speaker 1: even relation to GDP. I'm not sure that's particularly meaningful

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Speaker 1: statistic anyway. What's meaningful is the nature of our business,

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Speaker 1: and the nature of our business is that we're primarily

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Speaker 1: a wealth manager, which is a fee based business. Right,

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Speaker 1: I think it is a gold carrot standard for Switzerland

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Speaker 1: to have UVS here and to be based here, and

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Speaker 1: by the way, all the other parts of the Swiss

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Speaker 1: ecosystem in wealth management to benefit from that too.

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Speaker 3: Do you have The answer is maybe no, But there

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Speaker 3: is quite a lot of discussion now around the reopening

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Speaker 3: of negotiations between Switzerland and the EU.

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Speaker 2: Do you do you have a stake in that? As UBS?

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Speaker 2: Do you have?

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Speaker 1: We're a third country, as the EU likes to remind us,

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Speaker 1: we in the UK are both third countries, and that's

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Speaker 1: just the nature of the club and the EU. And

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Speaker 1: you make a decision the EU itself has got fundamental problems.

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Speaker 1: And you've heard me talk about this before. I mean

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Speaker 1: European equity market capitalization as a percentage of the overall

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Speaker 1: pie is fifty percent less than what it was thirteen

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Speaker 1: years ago. Banking in Europe accounts for eighty percent of lending.

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Speaker 1: It's almost the inverse in the US. It's no surprise

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Speaker 1: that access to markets allowed the US and access to

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Speaker 1: credit to recover just more quickly. So the EU has Switzerland,

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Speaker 1: by the way, is a market based system, so UBS

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Speaker 1: has a lot to bring in that in terms of helping.

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Speaker 1: But the EU has got to understand and indeed China

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Speaker 1: understands this potentially that they need to redevelop their banking union,

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Speaker 1: capital markets, union and so on. No sign of that, No,

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Speaker 1: there is a sign of that, there's been. It's a

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Speaker 1: pity you didn't Francine didn't ask Christine because recently the

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Speaker 1: President of the euro Group, Pascal of Donahue, they've done

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Speaker 1: work in Europe that realized that Europe is actually positively

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Speaker 1: not benefiting from having vibrant cap markets. To the tune

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Speaker 1: that's significant pools of money a moving into the US,

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Speaker 1: which is the only viable market. So I do think

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Speaker 1: that it's going to take a long time. Things in

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Speaker 1: Europe always take a long time, but I think Europe

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Speaker 1: realizes that they need strategically access to better markets and

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Speaker 1: somehow to work out the banking union despite the European

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Speaker 1: invested interests. Yes, but similar reports.

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Speaker 3: Have been done for at least twenty years and could

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Speaker 3: probably go back and find fifty year old. But there's

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Speaker 3: been an understanding of those benefits, but there's not been

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Speaker 3: the political will. And I don't think do you see

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Speaker 3: political will well.

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Speaker 1: I mean one of the tragedies of the EU is

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Speaker 1: that Britain left right, and Britain was a leader in

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Speaker 1: market proficiency and skill and expertise, and Europe itself is

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Speaker 1: essentially a closed market. So I think Europe is now

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Speaker 1: having to find its way without Britain, and I think

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Speaker 1: that has been the difference.

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Speaker 3: I spoke to one CEO just an advance of coming

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Speaker 3: here and asked him about why he was coming, what

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Speaker 3: he expected to gain from Devils, and he said, there's

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Speaker 3: lots of things people.

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Speaker 2: Talk about devils. I don't care about.

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Speaker 3: What I do care about is finding out from my

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Speaker 3: peers how they're solving for the possibility that we might

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Speaker 3: be back in the nineteen thirties and heading for some

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Speaker 3: kind of global conflict, looking at the geopolitical risks around,

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Speaker 3: how do you solve for that? Does it How does

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Speaker 3: geopolitical risks that we see effect the way you think

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Speaker 3: about ubs business.

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Speaker 1: Well, you have to think geopolitically, and it's a mine field.

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Speaker 1: We have the big question in the room, which is

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Speaker 1: US China relations. China is twenty percent of global GDP,

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Speaker 1: sixty five percent of marginal growth over the last decade.

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Speaker 1: You know, obviously it doesn't suit anybody to have the

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Speaker 1: US and China at war and US being neutral essentially

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Speaker 1: a European institution in the middle of that. You know,

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Speaker 1: we saw what happened with the Ukraine conflict when sanctions

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Speaker 1: were imposed and for the first time ever, a number

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Speaker 1: of countries joined sanctions. This is not good, right, So

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Speaker 1: clearly we take these into account, but you just have

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Speaker 1: to have a judgment on these. My personal view is

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Speaker 1: that you know, the US does almost seven hundred billion

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Speaker 1: dollars of trade with China. I think both sides of

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Speaker 1: the House and the US particularly going into election year,

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Speaker 1: or anti China because that is useful rhetoric, But I

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Speaker 1: think the Americans are very practical people, so I suspect

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Speaker 1: the hotspots will be focused on technology and defense and

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Speaker 1: the rest of the stuff carries on. And certainly I

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Speaker 1: think Presidency's meeting at the end of last year at

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Speaker 1: President Biden was a big breakthrough. So, yes, we see

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Speaker 1: the time around risk, We see this well, we think

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Speaker 1: we can navigate those.

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Speaker 2: So geopolitics is just a fact of life.

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Speaker 3: But being a truly global wealth management firm, how has

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Speaker 3: it affected the way you think about diversification China itself, Well,

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Speaker 3: you're reviewing that all the time.

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Speaker 2: UBS is growth. Primarily we will come from two sources.

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Speaker 1: It will come from China, Asia Greater Asia, and it

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Speaker 1: will come from the United States, where we have a

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Speaker 1: significant subsidiary which we will continue to grow. And that

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Speaker 1: is our strategy. So if China suddenly freezes, we have

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Speaker 1: a problem.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: I do not believe that that is a central case.

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Speaker 1: I think that is a tail risk, and we will

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Speaker 1: react accordingly, as indeed we did react when Russia and

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Speaker 1: the Ukraine started and the sanctions came in, which were

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Speaker 1: not popular, and clearly sanctions in any wealth management complex

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Speaker 1: are not popular. But we will act in accordance with

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Speaker 1: the law and in accordance with the business ethos.

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Speaker 3: I should ask you the same question that Francine asked

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Speaker 3: Christine Lagard.

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Speaker 2: How are you thinking about the US election? You know,

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Speaker 2: I'm just a humble banker. I mean, what do I

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Speaker 2: know about?

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Speaker 3: Always have to start worrying when people start talking about

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Speaker 3: themselves as humble or anything, when they have such a

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Speaker 3: large finactulence.

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Speaker 2: Well, the Brits made of empire, so I'm interested.

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Speaker 3: We're nearly out of time, but obviously having gone through

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Speaker 3: I mean it did you talked about culture right at

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Speaker 3: the beginning? I mean it looked like an almighty despite

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Speaker 3: a lot of the people involved, all big Swiss. It

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Speaker 3: seemed on the outside like an extraordinary culture clash, or

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Speaker 3: at least was going to be an interesting journey to

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Speaker 3: combine those two cultures and culture. I mean, I worked

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Speaker 3: at JP Morgan. It's so important at a bank, and

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Speaker 3: somewhere like JP Morgan, they've done such a sort of

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Speaker 3: extraordinary job of combining customer appeal with a very very

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Speaker 3: strong internal culture. Have you changed the way you think

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Speaker 3: about institutional culture a result.

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Speaker 1: Of the last No, I agree with you. I've always

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Speaker 1: been a believer in culture. It's no accident that the

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Speaker 1: survivors in two thousand and eight were the firms that

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Speaker 1: had everybody messed up.

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Speaker 2: I get that, But the firms that had.

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Speaker 1: The strong cultures are the ones who were able to

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Speaker 1: pair themselves and a tone and move forward. I think

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Speaker 1: UBS is a very strong culture. And the Germans have

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Speaker 1: this phrase that the fish stinks from the head, so

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Speaker 1: I think culture comes from the top, and that's why

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons when we did the acquisition of

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Speaker 1: Credits Sweez, we made these comments about culture and we

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Speaker 1: are trying to get people to come into what is

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Speaker 1: a strong culture at UBS.

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Speaker 2: I mean you mentioned JP.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting people forget that JP Morgan ceased to exist

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety nine and it was bought by Chase,

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Speaker 1: which is why, as an ex Morgan.

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Speaker 2: Stanley guy, we never called it JP Morgan.

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Speaker 3: But you know, that's one of the amazing achievements. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: we think it's over one hundreds of years old.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely well run, but anyway, but it has reaffirmed a

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Speaker 1: culture and that's very much Jamie bringing that top down

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Speaker 1: as well, and then it gets through into every standard

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Speaker 1: and the way you reinforce culture's behavior, an example and

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Speaker 1: punishment and so on. So I'm confident you know it's

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Speaker 1: a pity. I mean credit Sweeze had a specific culture.

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Speaker 1: You'll remember back in the nineties and the early noughties.

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Speaker 1: It had a culture of innovation, originality, entrepreneurialism.

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Speaker 2: It was just allowed to go unchecked. So I think

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Speaker 2: culture now done.

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Speaker 1: Tarrillo, when he was governor in charge of supervision at

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Speaker 1: the FED, wanted to try and regulate for culture.

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Speaker 2: But it's impossible to regulate for culture. Culture is what

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Speaker 2: it is.

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Speaker 1: So you have to look at management standards, behavior and

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Speaker 1: so on.

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Speaker 2: Very quickly.

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Speaker 3: You've already kind of talked about expectations for the successor

440
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Speaker 3: for Sergiomorti.

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Speaker 2: Not in any hurry, please, but you have I mean,

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Speaker 2: looking at the example of Morgus Stanley.

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Speaker 3: There's been the words bloodless coup have been mentioned, A

444
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 3: certain kind of timescale has been mentioned. But will you

445
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 3: be talking more about that over the course of this

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00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 3: we will.

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00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 1: I mean, by the way, I don't understand the bloodless

448
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: coup because James for years has had this worked out.

449
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 1: And part of the reason I left Augus Stanley when

450
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 1: I did nineteen was to make sure there was room

451
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,919
Speaker 1: for people to come up and be checked, and so

452
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 1: it was actually very well thought out and planned.

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00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 2: It doesn't seem to be a criticism when you say.

454
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 1: But coup sounds like, you know, it wasn't it happened.

455
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 1: It was sort of backroom deal or whatever you know.

456
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: At ubs. We definitely one of the reasons when I

457
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: brought Sergio back. The board brought Sergio back once I

458
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 1: gave him two conditions. One is I needed him to

459
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 1: be here for a certain amount of time to get

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00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: through the integration. And secondly, I said, you have to

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00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: get us a bench, a succession bench, right which we're

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00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 1: working on, and it takes us some time to work

463
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: out with that benches. And once you've identified that bench,

464
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: then you don't just anoint that person. You're going to

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00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: make sure that that person, male or female, has sufficient

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00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: experience and breadth to be able to slot into that role.

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00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 1: So you know, we will be open about it. But

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00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: certainly people in banking have a habit of saying, if

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00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: somebody's thinking about succession, then their chapter zero. For Sergio's

470
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 1: chapter is not over, so you know, we really expect

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00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: him to be around for a while.

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00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 2: Yet