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Speaker 1: On the beck Dol Cast, the questions asked if movies

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Speaker 1: have women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends

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Speaker 1: and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef

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Speaker 1: in best start changing it with the Beckdel Cast. Hi,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante,

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Speaker 1: my name is Jamie Laftas, and we are the hosts

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Speaker 1: of the Bechtel Cast. Yeah, okay, okay, bye. No. I

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Speaker 1: am excited for today. It's just I'm still getting used

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Speaker 1: to us being in a different space. I think that's

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Speaker 1: part of what it is. Right, We're in transition, right now,

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Speaker 1: We're in transition. It's like it's just the thing is,

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Speaker 1: we're in a space that I would argue is far

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Speaker 1: less oppressive and well ventilated, and but it's somehow making

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Speaker 1: me nervous. I like being here because my good friend

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Speaker 1: Sammy is recording for us today. Yes, Hi, Hi, Fammy,

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Speaker 1: say so. The Bechtel Cast is inspired by the Bechdel Test,

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Speaker 1: and it requires that a move. We has two female

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Speaker 1: characters who have names, who speak to each other and

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Speaker 1: cannot be talking about a man. Right. Not only do

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Speaker 1: we talk about whether or not a movie passes the

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Speaker 1: backdel test. We also talk about all kinds of ship

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Speaker 1: regarding the portrayal of women in movies. We use it

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Speaker 1: as a yardstick to begin a larger I feel like

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Speaker 1: we're both were in a new space. We were sitting

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Speaker 1: like kind of well, let's introduce our guests. I feel

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Speaker 1: like that will really, you know, equalize things. I'm ready.

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Speaker 1: He okay, he has a real intro too, But we

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Speaker 1: need to say our guests did bring everyone but himself

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Speaker 1: micsard lamon, which is truly the most generousing anyone can do.

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Speaker 1: I have yet to open mind, So just give me one.

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Speaker 1: Can you bring the hits up listeners live for the hiss.

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing. I get emails every day about the

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Speaker 1: hiss of the Mike's hard and it's stop. It's nice

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Speaker 1: and we like it. I mean, thank you anyway. Our

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Speaker 1: guest um he is a very funny fellow and he

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Speaker 1: is the author of How to Fight Presidents. Dan O'Brien, Hi,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me. Thanks for being here.

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Speaker 1: I really hope I'm not like the weird element that

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Speaker 1: changes your energy. No, it's for sure our fault. We

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be blaming ourselves so much though we're strong, smart women.

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Speaker 1: This is something I come up against again and again

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Speaker 1: where it's just like, Okay, I can be a feminist

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Speaker 1: and also I hate myself as an individual. And it's

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Speaker 1: confusing sometimes because you're like, do I hate women? No,

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Speaker 1: I just hate me and that's okay, Jamie, I want

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Speaker 1: you to love yourself. Well that's like a whole other podcast.

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Speaker 1: Sorry anyway, So, Dan, you brought us the movie Mulin

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Speaker 1: Rouge I did. Yeah, I'm so I didn't tell us.

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Speaker 1: So what's your history with this movie? Is there any

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Speaker 1: particular reason you chose this one? I knew I wanted

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Speaker 1: something musical because I'm a music theater kid, uh and

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Speaker 1: just wanted to play in that world. And like, it's

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Speaker 1: really hard to find a group of people that are

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Speaker 1: willing to talk to me about musicals. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I've been waiting. So wait, what kind of musical? Like

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Speaker 1: high school? Or did you did you bring it into college?

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Speaker 1: Did you bring it after college? Because that's a move. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it started way early. I started from Jersey originally, and

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Speaker 1: we went to I saw my first Broadway show probably

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Speaker 1: when I was in sixth grade, and then I started

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Speaker 1: doing local community theater immediately thereafter, and then was like

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Speaker 1: fully identified as musical theater kid in high school and

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Speaker 1: that was that was my So you'll be prepared to

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Speaker 1: burst out into song with us. Oh definitely during this

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Speaker 1: episode at anytime. Great, what was your favorite role in

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Speaker 1: high school? I got to play Suitlist and a funny

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Speaker 1: thing happened on the way to the forum, which I

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Speaker 1: wish I would have like checked in with myself about

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Speaker 1: why I liked it so much that it's like a

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Speaker 1: like a full blown clown. It's a character after Park

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Speaker 1: that for some reason is the lead of the show.

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Speaker 1: And when I was in high school, I just thought,

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Speaker 1: like the real thing to do is like to be

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Speaker 1: like romantically Like that means you're the best actors if

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Speaker 1: you get like Tony and West Side Store and you

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Speaker 1: play those kinds of roles. And I should have just

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Speaker 1: known at the times, like no, you're just like a

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Speaker 1: dumb fucking clown, like like be a character actor, play

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Speaker 1: clown roles and where the goof is the lead? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like getting Teva. Yeah, oh here we go. You

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Speaker 1: know who passed pass guest of the podcast Julia Claire,

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Speaker 1: who you may remember from Our League of their own episode. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and she just told me that she saw Alfred and

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Speaker 1: Molina play Teva on Broadway. She mentioned that on that episode. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't listening. Well. She was like, I'm certain I

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Speaker 1: tells you and I was like, nay, there's audio evidence

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Speaker 1: of it. Oh. Unfortunately I am a terrible friend, but

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Speaker 1: I can't, but I would. I would kill to see

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Speaker 1: Alfred Mollina played Teva. So, Dan, when did you first

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Speaker 1: see Mulan Rouge. I saw an VHS T. I for

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Speaker 1: some reason didn't see it in theaters, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know why, because I see almost everything that I can.

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Speaker 1: And I alone in my room watched Mulan Ruge because

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Speaker 1: all my friends were talking about it, and as soon

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Speaker 1: as it was done, I said, this is really goofy,

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Speaker 1: and then immediately watched it again, like I don't think

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Speaker 1: I've ever watched the same movie back to back ever before,

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Speaker 1: except from Mulan Rouge. And it's strange because it's not

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Speaker 1: my favorite movie. It's just a movie that I watched

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Speaker 1: and was like, I need to to absorb when you

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Speaker 1: watch Rouge. Yeah, it's I mean it is, it's like

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Speaker 1: considered kind of a classic now, right, I think. So

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Speaker 1: it's like or it's like a movie that everyone remembers,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think anyone remembers negatively per se um Jamie,

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Speaker 1: When did you see Mulin Rouge? Weirdly, this is one

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Speaker 1: of those movies that I think, if I had seen

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Speaker 1: it when it came out, it would be such a

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Speaker 1: part of my identity to the point where I may

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Speaker 1: not even be here. But what does that mean? I

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Speaker 1: would be living in France and I thought you meant dead?

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Speaker 1: Would you would have passed away? You would have deliberately

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Speaker 1: gotten consumption just to be like Stine and right, I

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Speaker 1: would be like, you know, it's really hot terminal illness. No,

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Speaker 1: I I didn't. I didn't see this movie until like

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Speaker 1: Christmas this year. Well yeah, yeah, I just saw it

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Speaker 1: recently and I really like it. But it's one of

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Speaker 1: those movies that I'm like, Man, I wish i'd see

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Speaker 1: us when I was like when it came out, because

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Speaker 1: that would have my life would have been taken over

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Speaker 1: by it. Yeah, I saw it, Um not right when

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Speaker 1: it came out. I think a few years later I

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Speaker 1: did a presentation on it as a freshman in college,

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Speaker 1: where I did have you not done a presentation. But

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Speaker 1: now it is a good time to mention that I

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Speaker 1: do have a master's degree in screenwriting. I have. That

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Speaker 1: was you know, interesting point. That's a lot of presentations.

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Speaker 1: That's why you have so many presentations. I got two

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Speaker 1: degrees in film. Yeah. Anyway, So, um, this movie really

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Speaker 1: took hold of me in like my college years. I

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Speaker 1: watched it like several times over the course of a

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Speaker 1: few years, and then I was like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: and then I kind of forgot about and stuff watching it.

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Speaker 1: But um, so okay, Mulin rouge. Should I do the recap? Yes? Yes,

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Speaker 1: and also you should you should speak like people sing

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Speaker 1: in this movie, which is just screaming for no reason,

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Speaker 1: a lot of screams, singing gifts Marzo, You're like, whoa

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Speaker 1: who Elan McGregor has no concept of volume control. Or

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Speaker 1: there's a very deeply sadistic audio engineer who worked in

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Speaker 1: this movie who would bring his levels up and down.

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Speaker 1: Willie ni I think he was screaming, screaming or whispering.

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Speaker 1: He like even like my gift is Mazzo and you

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Speaker 1: you're just like, there's a middle, there's there's others. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, right, You're gonna moman. I'll cover a bunch

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Speaker 1: of very specific but very different ground with this in

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Speaker 1: the way that current basketball superstar Steph Curry is ruining

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Speaker 1: basketball for the youth because like all kids now want

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Speaker 1: to be Steph Curry, which means they go very far

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Speaker 1: out and they shoot threes over and over again, ruining

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Speaker 1: the work on like a youth level. Sorry, we don't

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Speaker 1: allow sports talk here on this podcast. I'll bring it

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Speaker 1: back then McGregor. McGregor did that for a bunch of

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Speaker 1: boys in central New Jersey when this movie came out.

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Speaker 1: We were all like, that's what good singing is. Back

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Speaker 1: was just like belting. He comes in so hot every

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Speaker 1: single time. What's the song he burst into at the beginning.

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Speaker 1: So when he's with John Leguizamo and the person to one,

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Speaker 1: now imagine like a dozen chaotically horny teenage children in

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Speaker 1: a church in New Jersey doing that is singing. And

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Speaker 1: I love I love when because most movie musicals, I think,

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Speaker 1: followed this line of like you're putting movie actors in

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Speaker 1: a musical, they usually nine percent at the time can't

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Speaker 1: really sing. And that's true of basically everyone in this movie.

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Speaker 1: But it's always like treated like. It's like when Emmy

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Speaker 1: ras Some sings the first song in Phantom of the

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Speaker 1: Opera and everyone's like, oh my god, and it's like

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Speaker 1: she is a decent high school soprano at best. It's

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Speaker 1: the same thing for Ewen McGregor and Nicole Kim and

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Speaker 1: we're like every time they sing, everyone's like, but we

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Speaker 1: know objectively, like this is like that this is not

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Speaker 1: good singing, but it sure is loud. Yeah. So the

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Speaker 1: story of Mulan Rouge focuses on eumen gregor's character named Christian,

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Speaker 1: and he moves to Paris. He wants to be a

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Speaker 1: part of the Bohemian revolution and finds this group of

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Speaker 1: people who are writing a play called Spectacular Spectacular and

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Speaker 1: and he's just like, hey, I'm a writer, and they're like, cool,

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Speaker 1: why don't you write this thing for us? And then

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Speaker 1: they have a plan to put up their play at

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Speaker 1: the Mulan Rouge, which is a bordello, which I had

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Speaker 1: to look up what that is? What is that? It's

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Speaker 1: just another name for a brothel. So the Mulan Rouge

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Speaker 1: is a brothel in a dance hall where the creatures

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Speaker 1: of the underworld hang out and this team of creatives

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Speaker 1: basically like open mic comedians essentially, and they're like, hey,

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Speaker 1: let's like try to get her big break at the

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Speaker 1: Mula Rouge. So they arranged this meeting with Satine, who

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Speaker 1: is like the she's a headliner. She's the headline exactly.

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Speaker 1: When she sings poorly, everyone pays attention. She is a courtisan,

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Speaker 1: and they want to pass off Christian as a famous

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Speaker 1: English writer who is writing spectacular, spectacular, so that she

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Speaker 1: will convince Ziddler, the owner of the Mulan Rouge, Jim Bradman,

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Speaker 1: who yes, squear icon in this movie, or you're saying

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Speaker 1: a sexual because Jim Broadman's character in this movie only

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Speaker 1: works if you assume he has no sexual organs at all.

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Speaker 1: He has a sex lumpin gets very hot, but there's

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Speaker 1: nothing he can do about it. So yeah, they want

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Speaker 1: to basically convey and Sidler that they should put on

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Speaker 1: their play. Meanwhile, Ziddler is orchestrating this thing for Satine

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Speaker 1: to meet the Duke because they want this guy, the Duke,

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Speaker 1: to invest in the Moon Rouge because he's very rich

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Speaker 1: and very powerful. So there's this whole sort of like

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Speaker 1: comedy of errors where this mistake and identity thing happens,

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Speaker 1: and Satine meets with Christian thinking that he is the Duke,

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Speaker 1: and then they magically fall in love over the course

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Speaker 1: of one in love because he's an amazing singer during

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Speaker 1: Ma Masa and then you have to fall in love,

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Speaker 1: you have no choice. So then like she figures out

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Speaker 1: who he actually is and then she's just like, well

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Speaker 1: you're poor writer. Yeah, so they end up falling in

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Speaker 1: love and the Duke is all like, hey, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: what about me? And she's like she has to pretend

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Speaker 1: to like him. Also, meanwhile, they're constructing this place spectacular Spectacular,

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Speaker 1: which has the exact plot of the love triangle of

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Speaker 1: Christians the time the Duke, except their play is appropriating

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Speaker 1: Indian culture, right, so it's like what if what was

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Speaker 1: happening in our lives but somehow even worse. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: then like all the truth comes out where the Duke

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Speaker 1: finds out about Settine and Christians relationship and the throws

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Speaker 1: a fit. Also a set she is dying of consumption

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Speaker 1: sometimes she goes, oh we go, oh yeah, she's she's free,

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Speaker 1: bleeding out of her mouth and just having a really

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Speaker 1: bad time anyway, So yeah, all this stuff happens, and

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Speaker 1: then um, Christian thinks that she doesn't actually love him

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Speaker 1: because she has to convince him. Oh usuk, I hate you.

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Speaker 1: And it's just because she's trying to save his life,

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Speaker 1: and it's the whole thing. And then at the end

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Speaker 1: they put on the play. It basically turns into an

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Speaker 1: UCB improv show at the end, and then it's basically

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Speaker 1: a really high product and value three oh one showcase

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Speaker 1: that they do at the end, right, and and then's

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Speaker 1: the team dies, and then Christians really sad about it

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Speaker 1: and he's the real victim here. That's the story. Do

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Speaker 1: we miss anything? Probably nothing crucial to the plot. I

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Speaker 1: don't think I didn't excellent recaptain, say well what you

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Speaker 1: forgot the narcalyptic Argentinian that is mostly played for last

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Speaker 1: but doesn't actually have any bearing on the plot. There's

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Speaker 1: a bunch of weird, right, there's to lose. This is

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Speaker 1: one of these movies that is plot wise about twelve

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Speaker 1: minute long. Yes, yeah, yeah, which is fine. That's that's

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Speaker 1: the nature of the musical movie. Very often, it's hard

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Speaker 1: to write movies. So you write one there's a musical

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Speaker 1: within it, just make it the same things. So I

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Speaker 1: guess to jump in the plot. I mean, at least

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Speaker 1: the plot starts out as being a story where a

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Speaker 1: group of men are trying to trick a woman so

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Speaker 1: that they can get what they want, which is their

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Speaker 1: stupid play. Sounds like open my comedians to me. Well, well,

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Speaker 1: even going back a little further than that, just like

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Speaker 1: the fact that were introduced to Christian as like this

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Speaker 1: genius who can just improvise classic songs from the past century.

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Speaker 1: Is so it's really funny to be where all the

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Speaker 1: jukebox musical elements to this movie are just even McGregor

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Speaker 1: yelling and being applauded, because especially in that scene where

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Speaker 1: I mean and that that's an interesting thing to talk about,

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Speaker 1: the first scene between Settine and Christian where she assaults

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Speaker 1: him a little bit and then he squirms away and

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Speaker 1: then immediately improvises a very famous Elton John song and

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Speaker 1: then they're in love. You're just like, this is I'm

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Speaker 1: almost like when I saw that, I'm like, I guess

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Speaker 1: I'm glad I didn't see this movie when I was ten,

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Speaker 1: because that is a very strange precedent. Yeah, like yeah,

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Speaker 1: she so she thinks that he is the duke and

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Speaker 1: because she is a sex worker. She's meant to be

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Speaker 1: seducing him so that he will invest in the Mulan Rouge. Yes,

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Speaker 1: which I think, uh powerhouse comedic performance by Nicole Kidman,

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Speaker 1: who I don't think it's enough credit for being very funny,

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Speaker 1: but watching this movie again last night, she's very funny

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Speaker 1: in it. And that scene is incredibly silly because he

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Speaker 1: wants to do poetry and she wants to do sex,

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Speaker 1: and then and they don't talk about it, and when

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Speaker 1: he starts a studying poetry and she just goes, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's right, this is what I want, naughty words, and

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Speaker 1: then she starts like she's coming all over the couch.

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Speaker 1: It's so funny. She's like flailing around like she's she's

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Speaker 1: going to hurt herself, especially because it was like she's

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Speaker 1: terminally ill. She just can't be flailing herself around like that.

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Speaker 1: She's going to pass out. And then eventually she she

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Speaker 1: she fake hornies herself into a dizzy spell. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Well you know that problem when you're trying to hook

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Speaker 1: up with a guy and he's like, no, I want

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Speaker 1: to read you a poem. This is a problem problem.

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Speaker 1: But I do appreciate Christian's behavior in this scene because

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Speaker 1: she's like throwing herself at him and he's like, is

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Speaker 1: this okay? Is this what you want? Because he's there

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Speaker 1: just thinking he's going to recite his poetry for her,

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Speaker 1: not realizing that she is expecting to be having sex

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Speaker 1: with him, So he's like, are you sure, but like

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Speaker 1: he's he understands consent, he doesn't understand consent, but also

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Speaker 1: he's like, no, don't fuck me. I'm just trying to

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Speaker 1: trick you. But it's a weird between I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: trick your personality right right. So at the end, so

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Speaker 1: that scene ends by her realizing that he is not,

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Speaker 1: in fact the Duke and is actually a penniless writer,

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Speaker 1: and then she was like gross, an open mit comedian.

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Speaker 1: And then they part ways. But then he's like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, I can't stop thinking about her. So he

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Speaker 1: returns to her elephant, where she hangs out in her

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Speaker 1: big hollow elephant in the sky, scales the walls of

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Speaker 1: the elephant, scares her not unlike snow White, and then

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Speaker 1: and then sings a song in her which makes her

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Speaker 1: fall in love. Song, what my Gift is My One song? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we were doing caitln and I watched this movie together

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Speaker 1: Friday night and we were doing a mashup of men

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Speaker 1: scaling a wall and then singing one song. I have

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Speaker 1: a note that I did Friday night. I guess that

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Speaker 1: just says Ewen screaming bangs McGregor, and that's the whole note. Wait,

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Speaker 1: how do you say his name? It's as far as

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Speaker 1: I know Owen. Yeah. Oh, another note, I had a

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Speaker 1: lot of xylophone in this movie. There are a lot

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Speaker 1: of sound cues in this movie, very silly. It's yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have all caps sound effects as a thing because

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Speaker 1: it's it really happens a lot like there's I think

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Speaker 1: the beginning of this movie has one of the most alienating, wacky,

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Speaker 1: aggressive intros of any movie that I can think of,

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Speaker 1: because once it's settin and Christian meet, I think, like

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Speaker 1: starting from your song, it's sort of unfold like a

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Speaker 1: movie you'd expect to unfold. It's far school and it's

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Speaker 1: silly and nobody's cool in it. But in the beginning

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Speaker 1: it starts with bearded Christian writing and it's like Paris

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Speaker 1: Dred's like I gotta tell a story now, and then

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Speaker 1: it's like fuck you, Paris and it goes back to

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Speaker 1: when he meets a Tina and he starts writing this story.

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Speaker 1: The cutting is very quick, it's very very jumpy, and

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Speaker 1: he's talking about like he's sitting at his typewriter. Young

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Speaker 1: Owen McGregor is saying, like, I want to write a

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Speaker 1: play about love. There's only one problem. Smash cut to

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Speaker 1: his face. I've never been in love. And it's like,

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Speaker 1: this is such a silly yeah, And before you can

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Speaker 1: even like wrap your head around it, it's like and

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Speaker 1: then uh, anocalyptic Argentinia man through my ceiling with is

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Speaker 1: that John Leguizamo For some reason, it's it's it really

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Speaker 1: seems like announces itself. That is like, hey, here's our

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Speaker 1: silliest ship up front, and if you're not ready for it,

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Speaker 1: you shoul just like walk out now because the rest

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Speaker 1: of you're not gonna like it. Then they also have

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Speaker 1: John Leguizama, who is not a little person, playing a

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Speaker 1: little person and yikes, but there is an actual little

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Speaker 1: person in this movie, one of the women in the

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, who works one of those sex workers. Another

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Speaker 1: another brilliant note I had is the primary cast is redheaded,

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Speaker 1: which is maybe bactal cast. First, very progressive great represent redheads,

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Speaker 1: Nicole Kidman, natural redhead, Jim Bradben red and out in

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Speaker 1: this one, Ellen McGregor, Brunette boo, e's a dick. And

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Speaker 1: then wait, the dude, the Duke, he's like a strawberry blonde.

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Speaker 1: He's a he's a I'm a hot ginge. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: go so far as to say that, Okay, I like

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Speaker 1: I like the Duke because he this movie is so cartoony,

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Speaker 1: and the Duke reminds me of a trope that has

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Speaker 1: been unpacked and examined within an inch of its life,

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Speaker 1: But like the queer villain trope where I feel like

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Speaker 1: that is the Duke, even though he is also aggro

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Speaker 1: and hetero at the same time. It's like he's stylized

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Speaker 1: like a cartoony queer villain, like a jaffar basically with

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Speaker 1: like his twirly little mustache, and it's like he but

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Speaker 1: then it's also like, oh no, he's aggressively hetero and

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Speaker 1: very toxic at the same time. Right, there's a line

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Speaker 1: in the movie where he, I mean, it's very clear

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Speaker 1: that he sees Setine as a piece of property that

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Speaker 1: he is paying for, and he literally equates her two

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Speaker 1: items and he says he's like, I'm not a jealous man,

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Speaker 1: I just don't like people touching my thing. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: that was so at least that's you. His talk masculinity

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Speaker 1: is used to show that he is a villain, because

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Speaker 1: that doesn't always happen in movies where you know, sometimes

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Speaker 1: there's toxic masculinity and we're supposed to identify with that character,

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Speaker 1: so at least we'll understand to rape her. Okay, Yes,

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Speaker 1: there is a very difficult to watch rape scene. That

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Speaker 1: scene is bananas on so many levels because it is

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Speaker 1: also scored to a really poor karaoke version of Roxanne

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Speaker 1: by the Police, which, listening to the lyrics, now a

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Speaker 1: problematic song. Sure. Yeah. And speaking of problems, who is

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Speaker 1: Setene eventually saved by a character named lay Shock a Lot?

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Speaker 1: That's right? Who is the black man who works at

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Speaker 1: the Mulon Rouge? Only black person in the movie, I

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Speaker 1: believe so. And his name is basically Chocolate and it's

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Speaker 1: never spoken. You have to go on the im we

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Speaker 1: here at one time, do you know, someone says thank

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Speaker 1: you Shock a Lot? And I've seen it maybe like

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Speaker 1: twelve or thirteen times at this point, and never picked

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Speaker 1: up on that, and then last night Austin and was like,

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Speaker 1: surely they said John Claude or something like that, and

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Speaker 1: I really wanted to give them to the benefit of

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Speaker 1: the doubt, and then went to I Amdb and it's

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Speaker 1: a lot. There's also a character played by an Asian

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Speaker 1: woman named China Doll, which we don't find out in

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Speaker 1: the movie, but it's on IMDb. So there's some really

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Speaker 1: problematic and the whole play where they're just appropriating the

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Speaker 1: culture and there's all white people in that play. Well,

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Speaker 1: not great. Not a great precedent to set back. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so back to the back to the rape scene. I

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Speaker 1: hate that I have to say that, yeah, we're edging

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Speaker 1: away from racial appropriation, we're getting back to the rapes

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Speaker 1: to at this point, got it, got it, got It?

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Speaker 1: So that scene, I think it's the documentary misrepresentation that

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Speaker 1: talks about this. We're oftentimes in movies, a rape scene

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Speaker 1: will be framed not that dissimilar from an actual, like

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Speaker 1: consensual sex scene where it's like kind of sexy almost

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Speaker 1: you know. Obviously that's a horrible way to frame rape.

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Speaker 1: And I think that at least this movie doesn't do that.

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Speaker 1: I also, I think that's necessarily true. There were this

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Speaker 1: whole time and this whole so it's done to the

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Speaker 1: rock sand song Oh yes, and we're cutting so that

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Speaker 1: whole scene, you're cutting back and forth between the dude

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Speaker 1: basically attempting to rape Setene. Uh, and then we're cutting

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Speaker 1: back to like a very sexy musical number. I think

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Speaker 1: that that definitely contextualizes it in a very bizarre way.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you know. That to me says drama,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't say danger necessarily. I don't know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think when you're watching it, you do get the

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Speaker 1: sense of like, she like it's really hard to watch

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Speaker 1: and yeah, like she's scared, and it's definitely I don't

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Speaker 1: know it is I see your point. I just think

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Speaker 1: paying rape to a musical like that is a very

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Speaker 1: choice for sure. They also do a really strange like

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Speaker 1: pre softening of it, or an attept to press soften it,

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Speaker 1: I guess with before this, Jim Broadbent and the Duke

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Speaker 1: do a cover of Madonna's like a version because Jim

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Speaker 1: Rodburn is trying to explain why Seten has not come

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Speaker 1: to the Duke to sleep with him. It's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: she's gone fassing. She wanted to confess her sins and

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Speaker 1: be pure because the duke makes her feel virginal. And

421
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 1: then they both like growl at each other very wet

422
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 1: mouthedly about how great versions are. And then which is

423
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: crazy because Jim Broadbent's character is neutered. Yeah, so Jim

424
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: Broadban like dresses up like a woman in that scene

425
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: and the duke chases her around, and it's played like

426
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 1: Benny Hill goof up thing, like, look at the duke

427
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: chasing around this this woman. Isn't that funny? He's gonna

428
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,120
Speaker 1: do it for real later the dance and waiters. Yeah,

429
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 1: that I didn't even think of that as Yeah, that

430
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: is kind of like a warm of like a very

431
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: goofy scene featuring the rapist. And then you see the

432
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,959
Speaker 1: rape in the next scene. Didn't I didn't even think

433
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah. Man. At the end of the rape scene,

434
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: she is rescued by character Christian comes and no, she's

435
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: rescued by Oh, she's rescued, and then he comes in

436
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 1: and she's like, I was scared, And so the conclusion

437
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 1: to the rape scene is like and she could not

438
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: save herself, and the character that is a whole other

439
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: issue this movie has rescues her for the second time

440
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: because he also catches her at the beginning when she's

441
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: go she falls off of a circus swing. Not to

442
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 1: make light of consumption, I think that we can make

443
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 1: light of consumption is not a problem. So no, it's

444
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: isn't it the same thing as to bercular okay, h,

445
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: which is still a thing. We just don't call it

446
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,719
Speaker 1: consumption anymore. So, not to make light of a serious

447
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: illness tuberculosis saving. But yeah, so yeah, she does have

448
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: to be saved. I have conflicting feelings about seems like

449
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: where like a lot of times when a woman has

450
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: to be saved in a movie, it's because like the

451
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 1: super villain captured her and she has no agency and

452
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: she can't do anything for herself, and she needs the

453
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: male superhero to come and fix everything and to save her.

454
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: It feels a little bit different in a situation where

455
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,479
Speaker 1: a woman is being assaulted and someone intervenes and steps

456
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: in to save her. So like, obviously I want that

457
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 1: to happen. If there is an assault taking place, I

458
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: want someone to intervene, assuming she isn't in the position

459
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: to do that for herself. I deeply dislike the scene

460
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: on every level because the takeaway from that scene is

461
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: also like it uses in sort of the classic way

462
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 1: that media often does, uses rape as a plot device,

463
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: and that is the final thing that launches her into

464
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: realizing she truly loves Christian because she was almost raped

465
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 1: by the duke, and that is so like that happens

466
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 1: all the time, using rape as like the final thing

467
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: to convince the woman that she's actually in love with

468
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 1: someone who hasn't attempted to rape her, even though that

469
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 1: person is very possessive and weird and yelling all the time. Which, yeah,

470
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: that was also one of my least favorite parts about it,

471
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: that the reason that she fought him wasn't because she

472
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: didn't want to get raped, for the violation aspects of

473
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 1: it and the removal of power and just the everything

474
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: terrible about rape. It is because she explains to Christian later,

475
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: I just couldn't go through with it because I really

476
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: love right right. She doesn't even tell him that he

477
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: attempted to rape her. She yeah, she just contextualizes it

478
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: as like, I don't want to be this person anymore.

479
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 1: I don't want to have to like sell my body

480
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: to please men, and you know, which perpetuates a message

481
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: that that was a necessary thing to happen to her

482
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: to get her back to the protagonists. And that's just

483
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,199
Speaker 1: like you see that when you're super young. That's like

484
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 1: just a nasty little precedent, right to say. And I

485
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: want to talk more about Christian like being extremely possessive

486
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: of her, because both of the characters that are vying

487
00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: for Statine's love are extremely possessive of her. It's villainized

488
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 1: more in the Duke obviously. Well then also Jim brodbin's

489
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 1: her in a non sexual way, in a business way, right,

490
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 1: it's true business. Yeah. So christians arc goes from he

491
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: quickly falls in love with her, and she sort of

492
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: acts like she loves him, and then she actually does

493
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: fall in love with him, and then they're canoodling behind

494
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: the scenes and like having this clandestine relationship. Meanwhile, he

495
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: is upset that she has to be spending time with

496
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: the Duke because Ziddler keeps being like, hey, you know,

497
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: he's he holds the deeds to the Moonlan Rouge, you

498
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: have to appease the Duke. And to be fair, Setine

499
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: Is does seem to have a vested interest in the

500
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: Milon Rouge succeeding, and she's not pushing against Ziddler that

501
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: much because she's she has a vested interest in the

502
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: businesses success as well. So she's going to do her job. Yes, yeah, yeah,

503
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: And we'll get into a whole other station about sex work.

504
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: I spoke to a sex worker and I was just like, hey,

505
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: can you give me some insight and anticipation of this episode? Yes, wow, yeah,

506
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: I do my research. That's so le So I want

507
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: to get into that in a moment. But um so

508
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: Satin's character, she understands what her job is, and Christian

509
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: knows also the nature of her profession and that she

510
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: has sex with other people for various reasons, and it

511
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: makes him very jealous, and several different scenes throughout the

512
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: course of the movie to the point where his arc

513
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: sort of ends with she has convinced him that she

514
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: doesn't love him anymore in an attempt to save his

515
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: life because the Duke's like, I'm going to get my

516
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,959
Speaker 1: man servant love joy sorry Titanic reference to murder Christian.

517
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: So she like sends him away and he's like depressed

518
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: and having an emo episode about it in his bed,

519
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: and episode just go away, please stop you like a

520
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: John Logzalla. So then he's like, wait a minute, there's

521
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: something weird about this. I have to go see what's wrong.

522
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: So he sells this typewriter, gets all this cash drama,

523
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: confronts Settin in the middle of their play, throws money

524
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: at her, and he's like, I've paid my whore and

525
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: it's a very so hot love when people screen it

526
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: at me when I'm in the middle of doing something.

527
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: He's clearly a feminist di com in that moment. She

528
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: also told him in song in the beginning of the

529
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: movie that they shouldn't be together because you will be mean,

530
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: and he's like, no, I won't and then smash cut

531
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: to the end of the movie where he's throwing money

532
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: at her and calling her horror and like storming off

533
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: on her opening night. Yeah, foreshadowing. So he is not

534
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: respecting like the boundaries of her work and not respecting

535
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: the nature of her work and can't hang. He cannot hang.

536
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: His problem is he cannot hang. And so that is

537
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: a huge problem because so Setine, I have a lot

538
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: of conflicting thoughts about this movie, where I think it's

539
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: interest sting and even cool that we see a movie

540
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: where one of the main characters is a sex worker

541
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: and it is like hyper glamorized, and you know, it's

542
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: very flashy, and her life is made to seem like

543
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: really extravagant, and a lot of times when we're seeing

544
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: depictions of sex workers and movies, they are like tattered

545
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: women who are addicted to drugs, and they're like work

546
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: in the streets. And that is true for some sex workers.

547
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: There's some sex workers where they do live sort of

548
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: an upscale, glamorous lifestyle, and then there's a whole other

549
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: kind of branchise suppose of sex work where it's kind

550
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: of middle class, and this has been ushered in by

551
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: the Internet era, and the sex worker I spoke with

552
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: today basically advertises her services online, is able to screen

553
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: her clients, feels very liberated in her job. This job

554
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: is her choice. She wants to be doing this. She

555
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: wasn't forced by anyone. She's not doing it to support

556
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: a drug habit or anything like that, which is what

557
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: I think. A lot of people have an understanding of

558
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: what sex work must be or that's the means to

559
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: that end. So there's a whole ton of people doing

560
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: a type of sex work where it's like on their

561
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: terms and this is what they want to be doing

562
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: and they are proud to be doing this, and media

563
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: almost never touches on this or porchas this in any way.

564
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: So I was basically just asking, like, how do you

565
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: feel about depictions of sex work in movies like Mulan Rouge,

566
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: And she was just basically saying, like it's treated as

567
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: something that both male characters are trying to save Setine

568
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: of trying to like get her out of this lifestyle

569
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: and even settin in the movies like oh, I can't

570
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: wait to be a great actress like Sarah Bernhardt, she

571
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: has like desires outside of being a sex worker. And

572
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: again that might be true for a number of people

573
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: in sex work profession, but that's not necessarily true. So

574
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: and granted you also have to consider the time that

575
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: this movie is taking place in It's turned the century France,

576
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: where I would argue probably not a thoroughly researched part

577
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: of the movie because they are singing fat boy slim

578
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: a lot of really just on the historical accuracy level.

579
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: I never understood why John Louizaa plays on to loose

580
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: La Trek, who was a real person who lived at

581
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: this time and was a little person that had a cane.

582
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: That's a real person who existed in the art scene

583
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: didn't and no one else in the movie is real,

584
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: but they picked this one person and they're like, well,

585
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: we need like for some Vario similitude, we need to

586
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: loose La Trek in there, and then Christian and Shock

587
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: a lot and Satin and a much of other made

588
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: up people. I don't understand why I think that that

589
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 1: that you bring up the the idea that sex work

590
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 1: is something that the team would have to be saved from.

591
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: This kind of reminded me of this is a fun

592
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: roundabout plug. We recently did a bonus episode on The

593
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: Big Lebowski, and I recognize a similar theme here where

594
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: there's two very specific types of toxic masculinity presented in

595
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: this movie, and it's clear which kind the movie favors.

596
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: You know. So we have the Duke, who is a

597
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: capitalist and entitled and a rapist, bad across the board,

598
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 1: bad bad, bad. But then you look at the Christian

599
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 1: character and he's not a good guy. He is still

600
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 1: very entitled, he is still jealous and possessive, and that

601
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: form of toxicity is not challenging anyway by the movie,

602
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,720
Speaker 1: and in fact, the movie is like, this is what

603
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 1: you want you, this is the guy I And I'm

604
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 1: also just so tired of like movies being like you

605
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: should date a loser. It's like, you know what, Actually,

606
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: I don't want to Setina's out earning him to like

607
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: an absurd degree in this movie, I'm like, why are

608
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: you putting up with this loser who's just like, hey,

609
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: you stop kissing on their boys. I'm like, get a

610
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: job there. Anyways, you're going to ruin my romantic life

611
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: as a unemployed writer who streams a lot and unemployed

612
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: screaming icon Ellen middle parts screamer McGregor. There's if there's

613
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: one saving grades for this movie. If I want to

614
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: give the movie more credit than it probably deserves in

615
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:16,240
Speaker 1: terms of being clever, which I shouldn't um, the framing

616
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 1: device of the movie is still this is the story

617
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: as told from Christians perspective. So what we're seeing is

618
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: what he has written out on his hypewriter, his play

619
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: or movie or book. You know what, he does have

620
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: a masters from bu that's for sure. I don't know

621
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: if I want to give bos enough credit for this.

622
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: But if I'm being generous, I would say, bos, you

623
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: made this so very clearly males story with women that

624
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: need to be saved because it's a The guy who's

625
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: writing it is wrong, and that's if I want to

626
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: go two levels in and give him extra credit. I

627
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: don't think that was the thought that went into it.

628
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: I don't think they thought, let's make a love story,

629
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: but let's make sure that it's written from a males

630
00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: perspective and problematic because of that. Lens Little Boss, Bosses

631
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 1: of polarizing guy. He wears Aviator sunglasses a lot. He's Australian.

632
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 1: This is the third movie in his Red Curtain trilogy.

633
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: He's just you know, I'll say a boss is a

634
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: piece of work and he needs to chill out. And

635
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: the Great Gatsby sucked eggs. Oh yeah, What are the

636
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: other in the Red Curtain trilogy? Strictly Ballroom from which

637
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,919
Speaker 1: I don't know what that is? Romeo plus Juliette, Clara

638
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: Dains and Leonardo DiCaprio, lots of Hawaiian shirts. Jamie Kennedy,

639
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: Jamie Kennedy, the Jamie Kennedy Experiment. I want to marry

640
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: into the family stuff, so I and then I want

641
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: to become the dominant jam I want to get into

642
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: But he's not of the Kennedy's is he. No? No,

643
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: no family. No, I want to marry into the Kennedy's.

644
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: Here's my plan. I need to Mary into the political

645
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: dynasty Kennedy's and then become a more powerful Jamie Kennedy

646
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: and oh okay, and then fight Jamie Kennedy. And that

647
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: makes sense. Yeah, there's a more powerful Daniel O'Brien in

648
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: the world. That really Yeah he was an orphan who

649
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: went on to become a gold medal winning Olympic well ship. Yeah,

650
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: there's nothing I could do. I've tapped the Jamie Loftus,

651
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: who's a really successful realtor in St. Louis shout out.

652
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 1: I'll fight her any day. But now it's like, well,

653
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:37,919
Speaker 1: I gotta Step one, Mary Kennedy. This will be easy.

654
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: Step to figure out Jamie Kennedy contact information, and this

655
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: will be harder. Step three. Challenge him to a public fight.

656
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: Step four, get very strong. Step five, beat Jamie Kennedy up.

657
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: Step six, start a show called the Jamie Kennedy Experiment.

658
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 1: Step six, seven, seven, have my version of the Jamie

659
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 1: Kennedy Experiment go on exactly one episode longer than the

660
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: original Jamie Kennedy experiment. That's the plank, that's the that's

661
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: the real Jamie Kennedy experiment. Great, best of luck to

662
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: you and that so much so. Yeah, you're right, the

663
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: story is totally from the male perspective. And side note,

664
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 1: like the opening shots you see in the Mulan Rouge

665
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 1: of like all the dancers, it's a lot of like

666
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: disembodied female body parts and like women lifting. There's and

667
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 1: it just feels like very kind of headless women of Hollywood.

668
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: Shut objectifying. You're not going to believe this, but every

669
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 1: major behind the scenes player in this movie is a man.

670
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: Right directed, produce, screenplay, cinematography, editing, all and most of

671
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 1: the characters are men. You would think that a movie

672
00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:00,280
Speaker 1: set in a brothel would feature more characters who are women.

673
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 1: What is the name of the other female character who? Okay,

674
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: I want to talk to talk about her a little bit,

675
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: but I don't know what her name is. Marie. I

676
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: could call in her old carpet bangs because she has

677
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 1: these crazy tassel bangs. She's mean and that's all I know.

678
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 1: Nini is the one who talks to Duke and he's like,

679
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: why would she get with the pene list writer. Honestly,

680
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 1: fair point by all carpet things, I identified closely with

681
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: Attle carpet things, where she's just like why is she

682
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: dating that fuck boy? Why is it what? And it's like, okay,

683
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 1: fair carpet things, but like who are you and why

684
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: are you so angry? Where she's the only other employee

685
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: of the Mulin rouge who's a woman that we really meet,

686
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: and she is and this is again like something we

687
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: see over and over. She's just baselessly very hateful and

688
00:39:56,120 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 1: antagonistic towards the team because women behating women, and you know,

689
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 1: it's like in my I feel like the implication is,

690
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: and it's never explicitly stated, but the implication is, well,

691
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 1: Setina is the big star, so everyone's going to resent

692
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: her because she's the big star and everyone else is

693
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: trying to get ahead. But it's so shoehorned in just

694
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,919
Speaker 1: because basically Carpet Bangs is there to deliver a plot point,

695
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: which is to tell the Duke that Christian and Setina

696
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: hooking up, like that's why she's there, And then she's

697
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: also in that she's the one they're cutting back to

698
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 1: it when Setina is getting raped and it's like carpet bangs.

699
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 1: You deserved better. Yeah, I well, I definitely took note

700
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 1: of how there was obvious sort of like lack of

701
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 1: sisterhood or like sense of family among the sex workers

702
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: in and I asked the woman who was a sex

703
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:47,399
Speaker 1: worker about this, and I said, like, what's your take

704
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: on that. I would imagine that there's more of a

705
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: just like sense of camaraderie among these women, and she

706
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 1: said that, yeah, Bronzelis probably did sort of operate like families,

707
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 1: but because they were all kind of in competition with

708
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: each other because they were working for a man and

709
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: the man was collecting most of their wages, they were

710
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: not independently operating and therefore did sort of have to

711
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: be in competition with each other. So it actually kind

712
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 1: of tracks that Nini was so antagonistic towards Settin, but

713
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: the movie does not make any I feel like that's

714
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: giving the movie a lot of credits. She was there

715
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: to deliver a platform. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the movie doesn't

716
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 1: really explore the intricacies of sex work from that time,

717
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: and I would guess probably has no fucking idea they existed,

718
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 1: because the female characters are not who they're invested in

719
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: at all. Movie. I didn't even really know that it

720
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 1: was specifically a brothel and sex workers. I know the

721
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: play within a play is about a Cortison and that's

722
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 1: a sex worker, but I thought Mulan Rouge was more

723
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 1: like a burlesque call, Like I learned from you that

724
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: this is a brothel. I thought it was a burlesque call.

725
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 1: And they were like not formally selling Seine to the Duke,

726
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: but just sort of like if you marry this guy. Like,

727
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: but yeah, now that I know that it is about

728
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: sex workers, it's job movie. In the opening um like

729
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: voiceover where Christians like typing on his little typewriter which

730
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 1: he apparently had to buy another one of because he

731
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 1: sells his first one to throw money at Setine. I'll

732
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,399
Speaker 1: show you. So that's oh that. I had a note

733
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: of that too. I was like, oh, no, white male

734
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 1: writer quit, No horrible, what a loss. But he so

735
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: he buys another typewriter and he starts typing up his

736
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: story about him and Settine, and he was explaining like

737
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: what the Milan Rouge is, and he calls it a

738
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 1: bordello and I had to look up what that is,

739
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: but it is synonymous with a brothel. So I think

740
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 1: the first time I saw this movie, I knew that

741
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 1: they were sex workers. I like, I was like, oh,

742
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 1: that's what they were. Maybe not like I feel like

743
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: I knew that good, but just because I knew what

744
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,760
Speaker 1: Milan Rouge was, right. Yeah, you also wrote up opening

745
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: shots of them where you just see like legs of

746
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,080
Speaker 1: women dancing and like they lift up their skirts you

747
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: see underwear. Uh, just in googling a little bit last night.

748
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: Originally they wanted that to be they would have no

749
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 1: one to wear, so it would just be like a

750
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 1: parade of headless vaginas. And then they wanted the PG

751
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: thirteen ratings, so they decided not to do that. But

752
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 1: that's almost how this movie opened. That's horrifying. But I

753
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 1: do love as a nickname the headless vagina. Um. I

754
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: wanted to mention because I just double checked because I

755
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: was like, okay, Nini, I did not catch that name,

756
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 1: but she is credited as her last name, Ninie Legs

757
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:38,359
Speaker 1: in the air. Unbelievable. Great God, It's like I get

758
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 1: that you're training to have a fun time but please stop,

759
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 1: please stop. Oh Kylie Minogue is in this movie, I'm

760
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: the Green Fairy. Well that's an original, Okay, So let's

761
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about how bohemia is presented in

762
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,879
Speaker 1: this movie, because it is a very like utopian thing

763
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: for a very specific kind of person. Where at the

764
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: beginning where they're like be do you freedom like foe

765
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 1: guys are on a balcony screaming beauty, freedom, truth and love,

766
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 1: and then there's like a gyrating Kylie Minogue like grabbing

767
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: in her own tips and being like, yeah, they're so right,

768
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: and it's like, it's just I don't know. I just

769
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: didn't That sets the precedent for what the movie is

770
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: because then they're because when they're singing that, they're like,

771
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 1: let's go trick a lady and they're going off and

772
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: then they try to do it. Yeah, I don't know

773
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: that was I was just like, man, this movie is

774
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 1: sure to come out in two one. Geez, same Trek

775
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: everyone two thousand one people are like a difficult ear

776
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:47,919
Speaker 1: for us because of Shreky to Trek, why Strick two

777
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:56,760
Speaker 1: is the better? Cuss? I owned Trick two on DVD anyway,

778
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 1: So it's actually I would say pretty than the first.

779
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: I would most likely five, because fives in production is

780
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: three through five. Scrap them, don't eat them. Puss in Boots,

781
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it. Speaking of Puss in Boots, though

782
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: didn't know that cats have eight nipples. Cat facts. With Caitlin,

783
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:17,439
Speaker 1: there was like there was a cat in this movie

784
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,760
Speaker 1: for like a second, isn't Yeah, It was like when

785
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 1: one of the bohemian apartments. Oh sure I didn't pick

786
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: up on it. Wow, I was surprised you didn't squeal

787
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: when we watched the movie together. But I was like,

788
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: you know, me always squiling when I see that was

789
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: a poor characterization of who you are as a person.

790
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 1: Just a little bit more on Satine and how because

791
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: she is framed as like the object of several different

792
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: people's affections movie and she's given agency, but a lot

793
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: of her behavior is also like kind of wild, and

794
00:45:54,120 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 1: she's a sex worker who is portrayed not l I

795
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 1: would say, but perhaps better than sex workers in a

796
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: lot of movies, where she has some degree of agency

797
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 1: and she does stand up for herself toward the end

798
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: whenever she's about to go run off with Christian and

799
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: she's you know, confronting Ziler instead something like you've only

800
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,439
Speaker 1: ever made me feel like I was worth what someone

801
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 1: would pay for me. And she's like, I'm tired of

802
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: your games, Like I don't, I'm sick of the Mulan rouge.

803
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 1: We're leaving and that Jim Bradvan does not tell her

804
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: she is going to die. Yes, he knows problem, and

805
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,359
Speaker 1: that's when he reveals it to her. He's like, you're talking,

806
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: he's got I mean, which we were saying when we're

807
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 1: watching the movie. We're like, oh, he's got a trump card.

808
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 1: He's got a Trump card. He's got a Trump card,

809
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: which is so manipulative. Like the fact that they were

810
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: withholding that information from her is insane. I mean, I

811
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: am going to do that to Jamie Kennedy. But also

812
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: I view that as reparations also like a bizarre I

813
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 1: guess I don't know this reflective of nineteen hundreds France

814
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: or not, but she'd been going to that doctor for

815
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: a while and it was just one point where the

816
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: doctor was just like, is there a man that I

817
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: could tell about her condition? Like like even the doctor

818
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:09,240
Speaker 1: doesn't tell her, just like, is there like an older

819
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: male figure around like a policeman or something that I

820
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: could just tell I wouldn't be surprised if that were

821
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:19,359
Speaker 1: a standard in in a bordello of like, oh, we're

822
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: not going to communicate directly with the patients. I'm sure

823
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: that it wasn't like ethical, but that was a while

824
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 1: that because you knew, like the audience knows that so

825
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 1: early on. And Setina is just like, I have this

826
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: persistent cough and it's like no, Also, women be fainting,

827
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,359
Speaker 1: but I guess in this movie she's fainting for it's

828
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 1: a motivated faint, but still it's just like, okay, So

829
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,399
Speaker 1: my point is I like that you at least get

830
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: to see her stand up for herself finally, at least

831
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: we get to see her stand up. At least we

832
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: get to see her type five. She's a headliner. She's

833
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,399
Speaker 1: she's doing, she's working after her it's free French friend.

834
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 1: She's going to submit her half our favorite part to

835
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: halfy Central any day now. It's gonna be great. She

836
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: could do great. So at least you get to see

837
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:12,479
Speaker 1: her stand up for herself. You know, doesn't really get

838
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 1: her anywhere, and she does, in fact die at the

839
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 1: end of the movie. Oh and can I say I

840
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 1: did really admire the way that she dies, which is

841
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,479
Speaker 1: again very plot driven and informs the entire framing device

842
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 1: of the movie, but with her dying breath. So the

843
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:32,399
Speaker 1: team gives Christian homework assignment, which is super dup, and

844
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 1: I will remember that when I am dying to be

845
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: like before I go write a novel about me goodbye,

846
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,359
Speaker 1: just like he has to do it now or he's

847
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 1: the biggest asshole in the entire world and there was

848
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: no room for him to be Like I can't. I

849
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 1: sold my typewriter to call you a horn in front

850
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: of your friends. Wait, is it gonna get read? I

851
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: cannot wait to a die be give someone a homework,

852
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 1: a very complicated homework assignment that is basically a shrine

853
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 1: to me as I die, like to make sure there's

854
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 1: clean water for everyone dies, Like shit, yeah, oh yeah,

855
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: I can't wait to die anyway. So getting so sweaty

856
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: doing bits, I'm sorry, Dan, that's gonna be of my

857
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 1: life time of trying to get nicknames to stick. Dan,

858
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: sweaty bits, that's gonna be the one that's the one

859
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,439
Speaker 1: that you want. No, it's not big Dragon, It's gonna

860
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 1: be sweaty bits on my tombstone? Have you sorry? Have

861
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 1: you tried for big Dragon? I did? Well? Yeah, my

862
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 1: life is like super not real. I'm not a real person. Um,

863
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,720
Speaker 1: I don't legitimately think I should be called big Dragon.

864
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 1: I think the idea of a person insisting on being

865
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 1: called big Dragon is are you funny? To me? So

866
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 1: I was like, it wouldn't be cool if I was

867
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: like a character who did that, and I just do

868
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: it in real life, because I because life, life is

869
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 1: a movie. Everyone wasn't some people do that's exciting. I'm

870
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: gonna put an end to either. Everyone should start addressing

871
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 1: me as Jamie Kennedy and just put that vibe out there,

872
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 1: and then Mary Kennedy and kill the other Jamie Kennedy.

873
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 1: Do you know, are there a bunch of young Kennedy's

874
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: running around? Still? There are Taylor switches sucking some of them.

875
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 1: They're around, They're around, and they're erect and they're they're

876
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: ready for you. You just have to lookate them. Great.

877
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 1: Caitlyn is strategically already deleting this in her mind. You know,

878
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: what do you mean? I'm trying to like figure out

879
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 1: what my like faces statement for this episode is because like,

880
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 1: I can't really I just don't know how I feel

881
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 1: about like Satine and her. I don't know. The one

882
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 1: argument I would make for this movie, because it does

883
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:06,760
Speaker 1: make so many missteps in terms of representing literally anything,

884
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 1: is that it is so extremely silly and removed from

885
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,839
Speaker 1: reality that I would hope and again, it's different when

886
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:17,720
Speaker 1: you have a very young audience coming to a movie

887
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: like this, but I would hope that for the every

888
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 1: man adult basically, that you wouldn't leave this movie being like, oh,

889
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:29,359
Speaker 1: a blueprint of how to behave in reality, you know,

890
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: where where some movies I feel like are are are

891
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,720
Speaker 1: more problematic at a deeper level because they're portraying normal

892
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 1: people behaving very toxically, where at least everyone in this

893
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 1: movie is so cartoonishly removed from what reality is now

894
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,839
Speaker 1: or probably ever at any point in time, because people

895
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: are just people will be singing in eggs or elephants

896
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 1: or whatever it is that it's presented as a farce,

897
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 1: and that doesn't make the problematic parts less bad, but

898
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 1: it does make them easier to dis this totally. And

899
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the reasons I like this

900
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 1: movie so much, because as we all know I don't

901
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:08,759
Speaker 1: like musicals generally, but I really like this movie. And

902
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: I think it's because the reason I don't like a

903
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 1: lot of musicals is that I just have a really

904
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 1: hard time suspending my disbelief for like people just suddenly

905
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 1: bursting into song. But because this movie is so cartoonish

906
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 1: and so far removed from everything that we recognize as reality.

907
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 1: Then I'm like, because I mean everything between the production

908
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 1: design and Boss Lerman's like, hey, like half of the

909
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,319
Speaker 1: scenes in this movie, Boss Lerman's like, get every red

910
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 1: gel in Hollywood and then put him on the lights.

911
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:36,760
Speaker 1: And then for the other half, get me every blue

912
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 1: jeal is Hollywood and put it on the lights. So like,

913
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 1: the movie just looks so wild, like the costumes and

914
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: the set design and everything about it is just like

915
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: so flashing and wild that we don't like. That's why

916
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 1: I'm able to suspend my disbelief for this movie. And

917
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 1: this movie was like influential and that it put the

918
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 1: ability to make a Hollywood movie musical briefly back on

919
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 1: the map as a viable thing you could do. It

920
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: was only for like five or so years, and then

921
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 1: by the time we hit Rent and like Rock of

922
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 1: Age as everyone's like, oh, yis you know what barrier

923
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 1: for a couple of decades and we'll try again. But

924
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: this and then a few years later Chicago where the

925
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 1: two hit movies that it's like, maybe we can and

926
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 1: then they made fandom of the Opera and Rent and

927
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: the like perhaps we should put in a little too

928
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 1: close to the sun on those. Yeah, but that I

929
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 1: I like that the same reason that you do, Caitlin.

930
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 1: And there there's a Boss Lerman quote about and I

931
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,400
Speaker 1: don't I'm not a big boss Lerman guy because I

932
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:40,359
Speaker 1: agree that Gatsby is full trash. I'm not a boss boy.

933
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 1: But he was influenced by and it's insane that he

934
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,399
Speaker 1: didn't let this influence spread into the casting. But when

935
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:49,359
Speaker 1: he was in India working on something and he saw

936
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 1: a buch of Bollywood films, he was really heavily influenced

937
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:53,319
Speaker 1: by that and how much joy there was in the

938
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,399
Speaker 1: cinema and how the audience was participating, and he was saying,

939
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 1: as there, would we ever be able to do that

940
00:53:58,120 --> 00:53:59,800
Speaker 1: in the West, Would we will ever be able to

941
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 1: be not cool and just lean into uncoolness? And in

942
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 1: service of just sharing this story with a singular voice,

943
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 1: and I hate coolness, and I think most movies are

944
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 1: too cool for for for school these days. And I

945
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 1: like the idea of the Big Dragon O'Brien, but a

946
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: statement movies are too cool. Be my friend, you know what?

947
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 1: These days too cool? So he went to Bollywood and

948
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 1: he's just like, hm, I could appropriate this white if

949
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 1: I still that's interesting. I didn't know that that totally

950
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 1: makes sense, especially given the play within the play is

951
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: sort of like reflecting that directly. You know, It's like,

952
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 1: I am not upset this movie exists at all. I

953
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 1: enjoy watching it. The problems are very clear. I don't

954
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 1: know what it is that you're just like but as

955
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,800
Speaker 1: Melan Rouge, Like yeah, I think it's also like you.

956
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 1: You're both probably pretty lucky that it didn't come to

957
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 1: you in high school like it came to me right

958
00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 1: around September eleven, because it did make us all very

959
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:02,959
Speaker 1: insufferable for a while, like yeah, I mean, well people

960
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 1: are looking for escapes. Yeah, I I love Mulan Rouge,

961
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 1: and then for a couple of years like distance myself

962
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: from it because like the the cult of people who

963
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 1: are really into Mulan Ruge was like Oh that's not

964
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 1: I don't want to be Where is there a based

965
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 1: issue with this movie that makes sense? Um? I think

966
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,479
Speaker 1: it's it's rolled into the to the broader fan base

967
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: of really irritating theater kids in general. Just we're gonna

968
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: go to Friday's after the show. We're still gonna have

969
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 1: our old line makeup on our foreheads, and we're gonna

970
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 1: sing rent and everyone's gonna love it. The rest of

971
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:34,839
Speaker 1: the restaurant is gonna be like, what a treat? Does

972
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:36,840
Speaker 1: no one have any final thoughts about the portrayal of

973
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: women in the movie, mug I don't think we talked

974
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 1: about Marie, who is one of the other named women

975
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 1: who has a couple of lines in the movie, and

976
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:47,399
Speaker 1: she's sort of like the dead mother of the brothels,

977
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,880
Speaker 1: just like non sexually running it with Jim Broadbent, and

978
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:52,319
Speaker 1: you would think, I feel like that this movie was

979
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 1: made today, she would have had a way more prominent role. Yeah, yeah,

980
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: well that bring let's talk about whether or not this

981
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 1: movie passes deep Entel test, because several conversations take place

982
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 1: where Settine is there and Marie is there and they

983
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 1: sort of sometimes talk to each other. You know, we've

984
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,399
Speaker 1: got I feel like you and I have to make

985
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,240
Speaker 1: a sort of call of whether a scene should pass

986
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 1: the Bactel test if when the conversation that arguably could

987
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 1: pass happens. We know both names, because I think that

988
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 1: when the arguable scenes. Unless I'm mistaken, we don't yet

989
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:29,319
Speaker 1: know Marie's name, but we figure it out later, and

990
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:32,320
Speaker 1: then it's like, well does this scene pass in retrospect?

991
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 1: Really getting into the weeds here, Well, okay, So the

992
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 1: scene where they first interact, it's after Settine has fainted, right,

993
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 1: and then deposits her. In this Marie is holding some

994
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 1: smelling salts up to her and she wakes a classic revival.

995
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 1: And you don't know this unless you are watching the

996
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 1: movie with subtitles, on which I always do brag. You

997
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 1: do always do subtitles, you guys. Okay, so how dare

998
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 1: you subtitle shame me? Okay? Sorry? This so, so Tina

999
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 1: wakes up and it's so breathy that you don't really

1000
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 1: know what she's saying, but she says Marie. Does she

1001
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: say her name? She says her name these silly costumes

1002
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 1: and then so she says her name, but you hardly

1003
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 1: know that it's there, and then Marie says, just a

1004
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: little thing in spell, and then and that's the that's

1005
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 1: the line that we don't really know what she says

1006
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: unless you're watching with subtitles on, because it's so kind

1007
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:37,479
Speaker 1: of garbled that it's hard to tell what she's saying.

1008
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 1: Before that, Nanie says to oh, Nanie legs in the air,

1009
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 1: nany legs in the air, It can't pass. The woman's

1010
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 1: name is Nanie Legs in the air. She's and she

1011
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 1: talks to another woman and I don't remember exactly who

1012
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:57,440
Speaker 1: it is. Uh Nini says something like, I don't know

1013
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 1: if the dog''s gonna get his manage last tonight. She's

1014
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 1: also Michael Caine, it's like and then the other woman says,

1015
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: don't be on coined, Nini. But that doesn't pass the

1016
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 1: back to test because they mentioned the duke, and also

1017
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 1: we don't know that other woman's name. The scene where

1018
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 1: Sattine says Marie these silly costumes and then Marie says,

1019
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 1: just a little fainting spell. I guess passes, but we're

1020
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 1: also hard to tell what any of them are saying.

1021
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 1: And then later on there is a scene where Marie

1022
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 1: says to Satine that twinkle toast duke has really taken

1023
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: the bait, and then Setine giggles he and then I

1024
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 1: was like, what is going And then Marie says, with

1025
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 1: a patron like him, you could be the next Sarah Bernhard.

1026
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 1: Speaking of patrons, please sign up for our patreon. Okay,

1027
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 1: Satine responds, Marie, do you think I could really be

1028
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 1: like the great Sarah? Marie says, why not. You've got

1029
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 1: the talent. You hook that duke and you'll be lighting

1030
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 1: up the great stages Europe. And Seteene says, I'm going

1031
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 1: to be a real actress, Marie, a great actress. I'm

1032
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 1: gonna fly far away from here. That does pass? I would?

1033
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 1: I mean, they do talk about the duke, but because

1034
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 1: we have a you know, just two lines exchange. Yeah,

1035
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:18,919
Speaker 1: there are two lines where they are not. And yes,

1036
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 1: the team's talking about her goals and Sarah Bernhard and

1037
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,200
Speaker 1: how she wants to be just like her. So with regrets,

1038
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: Millnerge does pass the factal test, it would seem so, yes, yes,

1039
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 1: I do think that ultimately it is bleak that we

1040
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 1: are shown a majority female workplace that sidelines every of

1041
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 1: those women in the movie. So significantly except for body

1042
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 1: part shots also sidelines. Do you guys have thoughts to

1043
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: forgive me if it's Aubrey or Audrey. It's the original

1044
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 1: writer who I believe as a man wearing a Audrey Audrey. Yeah,

1045
00:59:56,760 --> 01:00:00,160
Speaker 1: he plays Farremire in the Lord of the Rings. I've

1046
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 1: never seen a Lord of the Rings. I know. I

1047
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 1: saw them as like, this is for geeks. I can't

1048
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 1: believe how much you're shaming me today. I'm so I'm sorry.

1049
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 1: I don't know what's from, yeah, Audrey. I didn't know

1050
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:16,840
Speaker 1: if they were trying to present this is like this

1051
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 1: is a potential transperson, or this is just or I'm

1052
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 1: reading into it. It's just maybe that's his natural hair.

1053
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 1: But it felt like a like a like a bob

1054
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 1: wig that he was wearing in France, hard to say,

1055
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 1: not a masculine name. So I didn't know what they

1056
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 1: if they were trying to present a trans character, and

1057
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 1: then if they were bad on you movie for replacing

1058
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 1: it with the straight white male you and McGregor immediately right,

1059
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 1: But I don't trying to always suppress queer voices. There

1060
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:48,439
Speaker 1: is a very quick shot you see of two men

1061
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 1: very heavily tattooed dancing together in the Moulin Rouge, but

1062
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 1: like miss that. Oh yeah, there's just like a quick

1063
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 1: moment of queerness do you see on screen? And then

1064
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 1: it's immediately cut away from gay panic in my notes,

1065
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 1: but I don't know why I wrote it in all

1066
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 1: caps right after sound effects and I'm trying to that's

1067
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 1: early in the movie, so maybe it's is it when

1068
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 1: I didn't write down the exact moment. But there is

1069
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:13,920
Speaker 1: a moment where there are a few tasteless jokes in

1070
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 1: regards to like I think it's basically in any scene

1071
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 1: where there are men hanging out together as friends, there

1072
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 1: is some sort of like what is because the unconscious

1073
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 1: Argentinian puts his hands on Christians crotch and then he's

1074
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: just like I love talent and he's like nothing funny,

1075
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 1: just like talent, yes, and then um, which is across

1076
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 1: the board bonkers thing to do in nineteen hundreds Bohemian

1077
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: France if you're like this big artistic community and you're

1078
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 1: like we're in truth, beauty and love, but like no

1079
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 1: gay people obviously, right right. Yeah, Also, he is one

1080
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:48,919
Speaker 1: of two people who grabs Christians crotch in the movie,

1081
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:52,120
Speaker 1: because later Setine is like, You've caught a huge talent,

1082
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 1: and they're like wow. And then all the people who

1083
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 1: are spying on them, which is to loosen the other

1084
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 1: the Argentinian andre freaking bays are just and also separately,

1085
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 1: Ziddler is watching them through a telescope. It's crazy. There's

1086
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 1: so much voyeurism and male gaze in this movie, which

1087
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: is insane. Zeidler is thinking, I'm gonna watch the scene

1088
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:17,919
Speaker 1: have sex with the duke, and that's going to save

1089
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:19,920
Speaker 1: my business. I have a vested interest in this. She

1090
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 1: is my employee or property or whatever terrible thing it's

1091
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 1: going to be. Those other guys just assume Christian is

1092
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 1: going to do a poetry reading, which is a weird

1093
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 1: thing to watch, and then when they discover that it's

1094
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 1: not a poetry reading, they're still on board to watch.

1095
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:36,160
Speaker 1: So I don't understand any of their motivations. Imagine if

1096
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 1: the twist was Jim Bradman was watching the whole time

1097
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 1: like that's such a wild Like oh yeah, Jim Bradman

1098
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 1: is just casually surveilling me with his He always has

1099
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 1: a scope because then he like always trying to read

1100
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 1: like he sees what's happening, and then he's just like,

1101
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,240
Speaker 1: I have to go intervene. He's always watching what Setena

1102
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:58,120
Speaker 1: is doing because he does view her as property, property

1103
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:03,080
Speaker 1: and oh god, anyway. So also, Kylie Minogue plays the

1104
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 1: Green Fairy, Ozzie Osborne plays the Green Fairies. Laugh, weird

1105
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 1: way to Use Your money? Movie, interesting use of funds

1106
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:21,720
Speaker 1: and a new podcast. Shall we write, Yes, let's write

1107
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 1: the movie on our nipple scale, where we rate based

1108
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 1: on the movie's portrayal of women on a zero to

1109
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 1: five nipple scale. I guess I have to give this

1110
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 1: movie you one and a half two. I don't think

1111
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 1: it fares very well about all. Again, I'm still I'm

1112
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 1: still confused about this movie because I feel like it's

1113
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:45,400
Speaker 1: just like wild wackiness is like, oh, it's fun and

1114
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 1: I like it. But at the same time, most of

1115
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 1: the female characters are completely sidelined. Satine is treated as

1116
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 1: property by almost all of the main male characters, and

1117
01:03:57,240 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 1: while she does have some degree of agency where she

1118
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 1: is making her own choices and pursuing her own love

1119
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 1: story and things like that, she's often dictated what to

1120
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:11,120
Speaker 1: do by other men and isn't allowed to have any

1121
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 1: sort of cathartic moment because she dies in the end

1122
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 1: before she gets to do anything she actually wants to do.

1123
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:19,440
Speaker 1: And then, yeah, just like the depiction of sex work

1124
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:24,040
Speaker 1: is really complicated because I don't know, it's just a

1125
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 1: really Hollywood eyes glamorized version of sex work that ignores

1126
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:31,400
Speaker 1: a lot of what sex work actually is. And granted,

1127
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 1: you could say, like, oh, well, you know, this is

1128
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 1: you know, fictionalized Bohemian turn of the century Paris version

1129
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 1: of all of that where things were much different, but

1130
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just it just drives me crazy

1131
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 1: when people have the opportunity in the platform, when they're

1132
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 1: making a movie to depict something more positively and better,

1133
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 1: but they're like, actually, instead, I'm going to make a

1134
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:55,960
Speaker 1: movie set a hundred years or more ago and then

1135
01:04:56,120 --> 01:05:00,960
Speaker 1: appropriate the funk out of Indian culture. So cool. Yeah,

1136
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to give it a one and

1137
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 1: a half. One nipple goes to Satine because she deserved

1138
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 1: more and her story is told from the male perspective,

1139
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 1: and I want to see her side of it all.

1140
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:15,480
Speaker 1: I want to see the story told from her ghost,

1141
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 1: her consumption ghost. More like Boo Boo and My half

1142
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 1: Nipple goes to I guess Marie because she's also very

1143
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:38,840
Speaker 1: much ignored for most of the movie. Yeah, I'm going

1144
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 1: to give it a one, and not because I don't

1145
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:44,160
Speaker 1: like this movie. Again, it's that complicated thing we come

1146
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 1: up against every time. But Settine is given some agency,

1147
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:53,440
Speaker 1: but never enough that she actually gets to make her

1148
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 1: own decisions. Her a decisions are always informed by the

1149
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 1: fact that she's dying and doesn't know it because men

1150
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 1: won't tell her. Decisions are informed by the fact that

1151
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 1: she is raped into realizing she should date Ewen McGregor.

1152
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:10,840
Speaker 1: Like just I feel like she has a kind of

1153
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:13,840
Speaker 1: a series of empty moments where it's like, oh, she's

1154
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:16,920
Speaker 1: realizing something. It has agency, but it's only because the

1155
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:20,600
Speaker 1: movie is telling her what to do at every single point.

1156
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,480
Speaker 1: So it feels like almost kind of like a hollow

1157
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:27,440
Speaker 1: sort of agency that she's given by the movie. Her

1158
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:31,080
Speaker 1: hand is sort of forced. Anyways, almost every time, the

1159
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:33,640
Speaker 1: depiction of sex work is certainly very complicated. Also, the

1160
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 1: fact that we are we are in this really this

1161
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 1: building full of women with different perspectives, and we see

1162
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:45,000
Speaker 1: none of them. I mean, we see Ninie Legs in

1163
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:49,720
Speaker 1: the air, who is very antagonistic and are are given

1164
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 1: very little context for anything other than the fact that

1165
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:57,840
Speaker 1: Settine is being battled over by three or four different men.

1166
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:02,439
Speaker 1: Uh So, yeah, not not a progressive movie for women,

1167
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:06,800
Speaker 1: i'd argue, but it it's you know it. It's tricky

1168
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 1: because I do enjoy it. It is a fun movie

1169
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:13,320
Speaker 1: to watch, but in terms of how it portrays anything

1170
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:18,480
Speaker 1: other than straight white guys movie affairs incredibly poorly. I

1171
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 1: gonna give it one and I'm gonna give my nip

1172
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 1: to Chakola. You deserve better, but you are great at

1173
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:31,919
Speaker 1: catching people. I'll go one and a half nipples as well.

1174
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:33,920
Speaker 1: This is nipple is not a word that I say

1175
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:35,920
Speaker 1: often in my life, and it's gonna just feel very

1176
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:37,640
Speaker 1: It's a very strange mouth feel to me right now

1177
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:44,000
Speaker 1: saying it into a microphone. But I agree with everything

1178
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:45,920
Speaker 1: that you guys said, and I know that the Times

1179
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 1: movie came to me in my life and my perspective

1180
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 1: with whatever my background is, means that of course I'm

1181
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:52,880
Speaker 1: going to find certain parts of it very enjoyable. You

1182
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:55,280
Speaker 1: and very You taught me how to sing very poorly.

1183
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 1: And but yeah, it's not it's really bad at portrayal

1184
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:01,800
Speaker 1: of women. I had a different perspective on it until

1185
01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 1: I learned from you guys, because I went to the movie. Thing, Like,

1186
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:06,680
Speaker 1: Nicole Kidman is very capable in this, Like she's the

1187
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 1: only one who seems like she knows what she's doing.

1188
01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 1: She's always improvising on the fly and like getting people

1189
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:13,920
Speaker 1: out of sticky situation. She knows how to like the

1190
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:15,440
Speaker 1: scene where she has what to do, where she's like,

1191
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:17,559
Speaker 1: the writer is just in love with me, that poor

1192
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:19,680
Speaker 1: penniless idiot we just needed for the show, and then

1193
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:22,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to discard him, just like you can do anything,

1194
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:23,840
Speaker 1: you're a politician, you can talk your way at anything.

1195
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:26,559
Speaker 1: You're You're smart and capable. But listening to this podcast

1196
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:28,280
Speaker 1: that we just did and just seeing how much of

1197
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:30,879
Speaker 1: her agency has been taken away by everyone, I agree

1198
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:34,000
Speaker 1: that past Daniel and calling my shot future Daniel and

1199
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:41,599
Speaker 1: we'll be wrong, humble dragon. But I'll give my half

1200
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 1: nipple to Nicole Kidman because again, I think she's a

1201
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:45,760
Speaker 1: comedy powerhouse in this and nobody talks about it enough.

1202
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 1: She was nominated for an Oscar for Yeah, that's great.

1203
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:51,280
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is against the rules or not.

1204
01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:55,240
Speaker 1: I want to give my remaining nipple to the Lady

1205
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:59,559
Speaker 1: Marmalade cover that came out an association with this movie. Okay,

1206
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:03,920
Speaker 1: good because that song fucking bangs and there's like nineteen

1207
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:05,840
Speaker 1: women singing in that song and it's and it just

1208
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 1: seemed like a very empowering, like it's just amazing, Yes

1209
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:13,360
Speaker 1: music videos video. I saw a tweet somewhere where someone

1210
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 1: was saying, like, if that song was remade today, they

1211
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:18,160
Speaker 1: named three contemporary artists and then they were like, and

1212
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:22,920
Speaker 1: still Pink the fourth member. She is. It's you know,

1213
01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:27,879
Speaker 1: you gotta hand it to Pink. She's got staying powers. Anyways,

1214
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:31,519
Speaker 1: that's the that's a good note to come. Dan. We're

1215
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:34,599
Speaker 1: happy to have been here to educate you and and

1216
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 1: change your mind about everything, and and thank you so

1217
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:39,320
Speaker 1: much for being here. Oh thank you. I'm such a

1218
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:40,920
Speaker 1: huge fan of the show. This is this is a

1219
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 1: real big day from here. Veryanks so much for having me.

1220
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:46,639
Speaker 1: Thanks for Mike's heart of course, I know, I'm I'm

1221
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:50,360
Speaker 1: a little drunk, so good. Yeah, um, is there anything

1222
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:52,439
Speaker 1: you would like to plug? Where can people follow you online?

1223
01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 1: On Twitter at deal b underscore I n C. I'm

1224
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:58,680
Speaker 1: currently trying to get Cardi bad and notice me. She

1225
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:01,559
Speaker 1: gave an interview recently where she talked about being obsessed

1226
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 1: with presidents. I have published two books about presidents, Cardie,

1227
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 1: I would love to talk to you and do a

1228
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 1: podcast with you about presidents. Well, Cardi is our biggest fans,

1229
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:17,120
Speaker 1: so she will hear this. Yeah, you can follow checked out.

1230
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:25,599
Speaker 1: You can follow us the Bacto Cast and on Twitter

1231
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:28,720
Speaker 1: and Instagram and Facebook. Check out our website where you

1232
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:32,800
Speaker 1: can buy our merch. You can subscribe to our Matreon,

1233
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 1: which gets you five dollars a month. Nope, it gets

1234
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:42,679
Speaker 1: you so drunk. We will get up from a mix harder.

1235
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:44,960
Speaker 1: And I think that what I just did was directly

1236
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:49,880
Speaker 1: informed by Mike's Harder. We are all disasters. Okay, you

1237
01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:52,120
Speaker 1: donate five dollars a month to us and it gets

1238
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:54,320
Speaker 1: you to bonus episodes of the BacT To Cast every

1239
01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:57,320
Speaker 1: single month, and it helps us out and then you

1240
01:10:57,400 --> 01:11:01,679
Speaker 1: get extra content. Sounds good for you? On for you? Well,

1241
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:04,639
Speaker 1: I just want to say that my gift is my song.

1242
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:07,800
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I don't I hope you don't mind. I

1243
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:10,080
Speaker 1: hope you don't mind that I put down in words

1244
01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 1: how wonderful life is now you're the word. Bye,