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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane.

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Speaker 1: Never told you're protecting I heart Radio. So Annie, I

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Speaker 1: already know this. What is your favorite spy character to

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Speaker 1: dress up? This spy character to dress up as I

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Speaker 1: feel like you already have, right. Oh yeah, well it's

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Speaker 1: a Winter Soldier, I thought, I thought, so I knew

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Speaker 1: you had that. Yes, yes, but I do have um

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Speaker 1: Black Widow, and I also have Catwoman, which I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure counts as a spy. She's she's a cat burglar.

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Speaker 1: She's a cat excuse me, she's a cat blurgler that

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Speaker 1: ended up being like trying to be an assassin later,

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Speaker 1: but she's technically a cat burglar. I like how you

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Speaker 1: emphasize cat that well, because it needed to be emphasized.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you didn't know who she was,

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Speaker 1: like you know, yes, but yeah, she's technically a cat

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Speaker 1: burglar who they try to wrinkle in to kill Batman obviously,

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Speaker 1: which she does not fall for. No because it's Catwoman, Kale. No,

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Speaker 1: because Catwoman, which by the way, I watched an interview

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Speaker 1: with Michelle Peiffer recently and she brought out her whip.

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Speaker 1: She actually had it in her closet. It was one

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Speaker 1: of the most fantastic things I've ever seen. Yes, that's amazing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's amazing. What's my character? Do you like to dress up?

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Speaker 1: Fast Samantha? You know, I don't dress up as much,

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Speaker 1: so I really don't have a character that I would

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Speaker 1: dress up as. But like, I think my favorites by

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Speaker 1: something along the lines of, like, you know, yeah, Black

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Speaker 1: Widow probably one of my favorites. We're playing a game

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Speaker 1: right now, the pandemic game is surprisingly enough, and the

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Speaker 1: season zero goes back to the Cold War, so having

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Speaker 1: all that instead of being like just diseases their spies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love those pictures of our like terrible disguises. Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, we did this wrong. At one point, my

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Speaker 1: partner who plays with us as well, was like, they're

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Speaker 1: supposed to be the same person. You can't disguiss into

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Speaker 1: different races during the Cold War, And I was like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we really messed up. We kind of messed up on

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Speaker 1: that one, but it made it more interesting. I will say,

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Speaker 1: I feel like they purposely made our people look goofy

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Speaker 1: because the forehead is way too high for some of

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Speaker 1: those hair dues. Yeah, and I put the hat, like,

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Speaker 1: not on the head, but on top of that. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it would be a good assumption to think

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Speaker 1: that we're not good spies already. No, And actually I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about this because this is samantha suggestion, and

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Speaker 1: we both been very excited to talk about women in

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Speaker 1: the world of assassins and spies for a while. And

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Speaker 1: I know I've mentioned before on the show that I

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Speaker 1: actually went to college thinking I would be working for

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Speaker 1: the CIA or a diplomat. I really wanted to be

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Speaker 1: a diplomat. But as we talk through this, and as

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Speaker 1: I have recently for this episode, watched a lot of

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Speaker 1: spy and assassin thrillers, I would have been terrible. I

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Speaker 1: would have been absolutely terrible. And actually it kind of

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Speaker 1: freaked me out because I was like, how can you

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Speaker 1: exist in this world where you can trust no one?

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Speaker 1: And also especially in our modern times, that they can

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Speaker 1: just be like, oh, at four pm every day she

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Speaker 1: reads fan fiction in cries for an hour like I

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Speaker 1: don't want to be a part of this. I don't.

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Speaker 1: I think you have to be birthed in the red room,

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Speaker 1: your ceremony is in the right room. You can't exactly

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Speaker 1: can't exist technically, I guess I could have been the

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Speaker 1: perfect spy because I did live in an orphanage. My

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Speaker 1: origins started under orphanage. Man, I feel like my life

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Speaker 1: turned radically. Doesn't everybody could been? But yes, if you've

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Speaker 1: been listening to our show the last couple of years,

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Speaker 1: you know, we love badass women, and we decided we

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Speaker 1: needed to talk about some of those badass women who

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Speaker 1: made history in the spy assassin world. Okay, just to

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Speaker 1: put this cabaut here, I went historical, so more of

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Speaker 1: the spies and assassins, thinking like World War two and before. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so in that time period, just to give you that caveats,

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Speaker 1: So we don't have any like the modern cold more spies,

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Speaker 1: not that that's modern, but you know, newer ish because

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Speaker 1: there's definitely a lot of controversy on that. There's definitely

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Speaker 1: a lot of like I found women that were hit

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Speaker 1: women like it was pretty intriguing, Like it made me

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Speaker 1: sad because of course, when we talk of loss of life,

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Speaker 1: there's so much to unpack there because you know, we

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Speaker 1: want to be sensitive to that. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: to live in that world, as you said, it's so fascinating,

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Speaker 1: Like how do you even come to this point. But yeah, us,

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Speaker 1: of course we had to do it Samantha any style, uh,

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Speaker 1: sam An if you will. Yeah, I gave us a

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Speaker 1: what are those nickname? Nickname? A couple name was yeah,

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Speaker 1: so a couple of names, A couple a couple of

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Speaker 1: name right here. And we made it like this our

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Speaker 1: style by talking about both historical figures and fictional figures.

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Speaker 1: So we wanted to add those two together. We even

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Speaker 1: added a couple of bonuses in here so that we're

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Speaker 1: not gonna go into as deeply as some of the others.

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Speaker 1: So of course there are many many women we can

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Speaker 1: talk about, and we decided to narrow it down to

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Speaker 1: just five plus those bonuses for today's episode. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: I even put that on. Annie told her she could

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Speaker 1: not do more than five because I knew what was happening.

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Speaker 1: It would be a ten part episode about all of

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Speaker 1: our favorite characters, and we wouldn't. She sure did by

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Speaker 1: saying there were bonuses or you know, out outs. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but if you want us to dig into more, even

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Speaker 1: have a request for specific women, uh you know, we're

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Speaker 1: always now to do a part to just let us know.

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Speaker 1: We just don't want to drag out things that you're like, uh,

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Speaker 1: what Yes, And if any of these women you want

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Speaker 1: us to dig more into, especially well, I can't speak

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Speaker 1: for Samantha, but in my fictional women world, I did

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Speaker 1: kind of do baseline superficial right facts. So if you

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Speaker 1: want us to go on more details, right, are happy

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Speaker 1: to And yeah, So what we're gonna do is, uh,

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Speaker 1: we'renna take turns, Annie and I. So I'm going to

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Speaker 1: start out with my historical people, which, by the way,

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Speaker 1: if there were spies and there were actually good spies,

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Speaker 1: the likely I have them not having a lot of

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Speaker 1: information is high just to put that out there. So

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Speaker 1: I may not have as much information as you do

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Speaker 1: because you have character development as where these historical figures

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Speaker 1: do not want their characters to be known. But of

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Speaker 1: course there are some that have been celebrated because they

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Speaker 1: were war heroes, so that is something to be said.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, and of course just about this, and I

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Speaker 1: think this also applies to the fictional characters. One of

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Speaker 1: the reasons many talk about why there's such a fascination

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Speaker 1: with the female and women spies and assassins is because

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Speaker 1: of the fact that that they are unassumingly out there

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Speaker 1: people don't assume that they would be harsh, mean killers

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Speaker 1: and or spy intellects like any of those things. And

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Speaker 1: so they just are either the mother, the sister, or

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Speaker 1: the prostitute, which has been used throughout apparently not only

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Speaker 1: in the fictional world but in the real world. So

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Speaker 1: just have that pushed out there as well, write any

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Speaker 1: anything else up forgetting Yeah, yeah, just going along with that,

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Speaker 1: especially when we talk about the fictional characters. If you

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Speaker 1: all remember the episode we did on What Is and

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Speaker 1: What Should Be, this is kind of one of the

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Speaker 1: things I had in minds of we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about sex pionage and women being coerced into using that

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Speaker 1: or using that because that is the world that we

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Speaker 1: live in, and examining kind of the complexity therein of

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Speaker 1: women having to use that and therefore perpetuating this kind

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Speaker 1: of seductress stereotype that that's where women's power is. But

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Speaker 1: there is power there and that's where it gets really messy.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that's going to come up a lot in

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Speaker 1: this in this story of all these women, and as

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Speaker 1: in fact, that's a great segue in our first historical figure,

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Speaker 1: who was known as Mata Hari Margharita Getuda Zella born

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Speaker 1: in the Netherlands in eighteen seventies six was a pretty

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Speaker 1: big and well known spy. There's been movies made of her.

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Speaker 1: Greta Garbow portrayed her later on. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty big.

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Speaker 1: She married pretty young to an abusive military officer. She

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Speaker 1: was trying to get away from her home which was

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Speaker 1: not so great, so at a young age and eighteen

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Speaker 1: she married this abusive military officer. After the marriage deter

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Speaker 1: one of her children had been poisoned, apparently for reasons unknown,

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Speaker 1: and then when she and her husband split, he took

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Speaker 1: the child after giving like gossipy news to the world

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Speaker 1: to make her look really bad. Yeah, it was weird.

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Speaker 1: The whole thing was odd. He took the other child

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Speaker 1: and left, and so she was on her own, and

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Speaker 1: she moved to Paris to become a mistress to a

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Speaker 1: French diplomat. So she she you know, made it however

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Speaker 1: she could. But soon after she became a dancer. And

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Speaker 1: just so you know, when we talk about her and

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Speaker 1: when we see a descriptors of her, they talk about

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Speaker 1: how she was dark haired, black blue hair with dark

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Speaker 1: complexion olive complexion. So even though she was born in

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Speaker 1: the Netherlands. They tributed exotic features to her, as we

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Speaker 1: would say, um and she became pretty famous for her

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Speaker 1: exotic performances, which she created by taking from different cultural

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Speaker 1: and religious practices and symbolism she had learned in the Indies,

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Speaker 1: where she had lived with her first husband. She became

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Speaker 1: known as an exotic dancer of the East and was

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Speaker 1: renamed as Matehara, which met I have the day. And

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Speaker 1: of course there's also the story that another man actually

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Speaker 1: put her on this pathway and and told her, you know,

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Speaker 1: this should be your name. That's there's a little conflict

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Speaker 1: of who said what and who started what. Unfortunately, as

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Speaker 1: she became older, her popularity waned, and she soon supplemented

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Speaker 1: her income by quote seducing men. Of course, I'm saying

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Speaker 1: this nicely in the government and military. And because she

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Speaker 1: was a Holland citizen, she was able to travel wherever.

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Speaker 1: She had a neutral citizenship, she was not involved in

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Speaker 1: the wartime stuff, and she was able to travel abroad.

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Speaker 1: And here is where we begin to talk about her

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Speaker 1: entreaty in becoming a spy. Although famous, she was not

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Speaker 1: necessarily the best of spies. Um. And there seems to

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Speaker 1: be a lot of different stories about whether or not

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Speaker 1: it was her fault or where whether she was completely

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Speaker 1: set up, And because she was willing to travel from

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Speaker 1: man to man, from area to area, they thought she

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Speaker 1: was a good candidate to get information that she they

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Speaker 1: needed during that time during the war, and she tried

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Speaker 1: to work away into the German commands like she was

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Speaker 1: trying to work for the French and try to get

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Speaker 1: these conversations and information um and try to get some secrets.

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Speaker 1: But she was soon accused of being a double agent

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Speaker 1: after some intercepted communications it seemed to state that Matta

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Speaker 1: Harri was a spy for Germany as well, but some

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Speaker 1: say it was a set up by both the Germans

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Speaker 1: in order to have the French arrest her after they realized, oh,

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Speaker 1: she's just trying to be a spy, but also possibly

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Speaker 1: from the man who originally helped her become a spy,

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Speaker 1: so that's a whole different story. And it was later

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Speaker 1: discovered that she had taken twenty tho francs from a

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Speaker 1: German diplomat in exchange for information. However, she stated because

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Speaker 1: she did go on child for this, that she never

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Speaker 1: had any intent to actually spy and give information to

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Speaker 1: the Germans. But what's getting compensation for the items that

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Speaker 1: had been taken from her by German guards at one

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Speaker 1: point in time. So she was just trying to, you know,

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Speaker 1: take our money back essentially. And no one really seemed

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Speaker 1: to know Mata Hari's actual role outside of trying to

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Speaker 1: be a spy, whether or not she was a double

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Speaker 1: agent or just an unsuccessful one for the French. And

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Speaker 1: like I said, many say that she had been set

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Speaker 1: up by Captain George LaDou, who actually again started her

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Speaker 1: on the journey. He was the one that fed into

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Speaker 1: this idea, Oh you have access, let's get some information.

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Speaker 1: And when questioned, he stated he had only hired her

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Speaker 1: to root her out as a German spy, So he

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Speaker 1: was saying from very jump he thought she was a spy,

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Speaker 1: though there was no indication of this. Uh. Later, when

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Speaker 1: different messages were intercepted that contained the statements to incriminate Madajara,

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Speaker 1: it was lad who translated these messages, at which time

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Speaker 1: the originals disappeared and the only thing they had for

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Speaker 1: evidence was a translated version that he had obtained or

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Speaker 1: he had translated, and that was it. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: lad was actually accused of being a double agent and himself,

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Speaker 1: and I believe he was actually incarcerated for it too.

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Speaker 1: So hello, And after being under harsh interrogations and being

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Speaker 1: represented by an elderly lawyer who apparently was the lover

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Speaker 1: of hers at one point in time, who had never

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Speaker 1: tried to military a case, Modifia was convicted within like

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Speaker 1: forty five minutes after the trial and executed a few

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Speaker 1: days later by firing squad. Unsurprisingly, it wasn't just the

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Speaker 1: concerns and misleading information that led her to this conviction,

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Speaker 1: but her lifestyle as well. So they used her because

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Speaker 1: she had that type of access through all her relationships,

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Speaker 1: but that also was part of her downfall, and they

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Speaker 1: used that morality against her to get her convicted as

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Speaker 1: a double agent. And the prosecutors stated during her child

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Speaker 1: quote without scruples, accustomed to make use of men. She

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Speaker 1: is the type of woman who was born to be

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Speaker 1: a spy. And she proclaimed her innocence until the end.

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Speaker 1: Apparently the last two a couple of days, she had

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Speaker 1: a dance party with the nuns. Not dance party, but

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Speaker 1: she had a dance all with the nuns who actually

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Speaker 1: were watching her. Because she didn't want to be remembered

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Speaker 1: as someone who was a prisoner and who has been dejected,

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Speaker 1: but going out in her like joy and dance and

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Speaker 1: what she was known for rich really um And she

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Speaker 1: said during her trial a courtesan, I met a spy never.

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Speaker 1: I have always lived for love and pleasure. So she

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Speaker 1: was trying to let them know she never did it.

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Speaker 1: And again, like I said, there's a lot of conversation

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Speaker 1: of who was at fault and who did what? Mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: All that kind of stuff annoys me because we'll never know,

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Speaker 1: and I want to know, right, but we can't because

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Speaker 1: of that information. That dude, he was going after her

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Speaker 1: pretty good hard. This is what I've learned about the

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Speaker 1: spy and assassin world. No friends, So now let's talk

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Speaker 1: about fictional assassins for my first entry. But here's a

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Speaker 1: brief intro. So typically women and leather corsets that are

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Speaker 1: are very monotony and flat. That's what been the representation

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Speaker 1: of these fictional assassins. But a lot of new assassins

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Speaker 1: in pop culture are challenging that or at the very

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Speaker 1: least occasionally subverting it. And researching these characters, there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of similar elements I found dark cast trauma, chameleons, weird,

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Speaker 1: traumatic training, beautiful and willing to use that beauty as

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Speaker 1: a weapon. Top notch wardrobe. It's very stylish languages, knowing

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Speaker 1: a lot of languages, often using people's lowered expectations of

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Speaker 1: them because they're women and girls, like you said, Samantha,

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Speaker 1: trust issues, oh wow, uh, manipulation, good liars, good at

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Speaker 1: reading people, smart, cutting, thinking quickly on their feet. There

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Speaker 1: many times where I'm like, how did you realize this

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Speaker 1: in the space of one second? This is impossible? Very

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Speaker 1: much a lot of betrayal, but also realizing you can

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Speaker 1: still be of use to you. So just because someone

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Speaker 1: betrays you, you might still work with them, because that's

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Speaker 1: just the world you live in, right. A lot of

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Speaker 1: Russians on this list seems like no one wants to

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Speaker 1: actually be an assassin on this list sort of started

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Speaker 1: in childhood and were manipulated into it. So I did

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Speaker 1: choose five popular female assassins in media with an honorable

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Speaker 1: mention and bonus, because I'm the worst and you can't

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Speaker 1: control me, Samantha. But I did keep them brief. I did,

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Speaker 1: I did um and all of them could be their

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Speaker 1: own episodes. As we said, I also try to get

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Speaker 1: a good sampling. And we're not going to talk about

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Speaker 1: the Bride from Quentin Tarantino. Uma Thurman's iconic character, because

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Speaker 1: we did talk about her in our Women in Revenge episode,

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Speaker 1: although she is definitely like up there and when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about women in this whole squad, oh yeah, pretty

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Speaker 1: much anybody in that movie, any woman in that movie.

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Speaker 1: But we're gonna start with Villanelle because pretty much every

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Speaker 1: list mentions Villanel from the BBC show Killing Eve, which

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Speaker 1: it's really funny this show. This recording of this episode

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Speaker 1: got delayed by like a week, and at the time

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Speaker 1: I had never seen this show, but listeners, I have

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Speaker 1: now binge watched it. I have now seen everybody every

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Speaker 1: movie and show I mentioned for these five women, and

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Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it. Sandra, Oh my girl, girl, Oh

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Speaker 1: my girl. Great. So yes. Villanelle is the code name

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Speaker 1: for Higher Assassin as Sanna, played by Jody Comber and

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Speaker 1: Phoebe waller Bridge is one of the writers. The show

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Speaker 1: is loosely based on four short novels by Luke Jennings

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Speaker 1: called Code Name Villanelle and Villain l is brutal and unpredictable,

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Speaker 1: very fashionable, often called associopath psychopathy something going on there.

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Speaker 1: Of the five plus bonus women that I've chosen, she's

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Speaker 1: probably the one who most enjoys being assassin. I guess

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Speaker 1: I should have said spoilers, but spoilers. She that does change.

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Speaker 1: She wants to move up in the world, so she

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Speaker 1: is hunted by m I five security officer eve Pool

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Speaker 1: last three, and they become obsessed with each other, and

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Speaker 1: it's sort of a romantically sexually charged of session where

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Speaker 1: they like kind of this game chasing and being chased

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Speaker 1: and also discovering I guess you're dark similarities, right, similarities

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Speaker 1: and just human nature, dark side of human nature. And

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Speaker 1: Villanelle really did shake up the female assassin stereotype in

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Speaker 1: pop culture. She she's funny, she's endearing, she's charming, but

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Speaker 1: she's also deadly and dangerous and frankly quite terrifying. Her

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Speaker 1: backstory is real messed up and no surprise there. She

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Speaker 1: was a violent orphan who crastrated a man out of

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Speaker 1: jealousy and then went on to work for the mysterious

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Speaker 1: organization The twelve. She really doesn't have too many in

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Speaker 1: the ways of loyalty. There's not too many people if any,

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Speaker 1: I guess you can argue that point there. She's an

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Speaker 1: excellent marks person. She's very creative and how she kills people,

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Speaker 1: and she speaks pultiple languages flawlessly. She's great at reading

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Speaker 1: like your weaknesses and your wants and needs. Also, because

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Speaker 1: you mentioned this recently on a show of Samantha, I

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Speaker 1: almost texted you about this immediately, but I was like,

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Speaker 1: down to it would be weird, but my superpower with

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Speaker 1: fonts okay. There's an episode where they bring in, like

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Speaker 1: am I six brings in this guy who gives a

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Speaker 1: horrible presentation on psychopathy and it's meant to be horrible,

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Speaker 1: but he uses papyr response and I laughed aloud because

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Speaker 1: it's like, oh, you know exactly what you're doing. That's

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Speaker 1: a funt, that's ridicule. Throughout the fat world. There's a

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Speaker 1: whole SNL scan. Ryan Gosling tries to chase down who

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Speaker 1: used papyrus for avatar y but I laughed aloud. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed that. Thank you, thank you for that. Yes,

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Speaker 1: super power. I'm very impressed and at the same time, like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I quite believe you. We have

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Speaker 1: to have a test one day. We should do that

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Speaker 1: as an Instagram video where I just tested you on

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Speaker 1: your superpower. Yeah, I love that show. I've only sent

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Speaker 1: through the first season, but it's gun winching and uh

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Speaker 1: Sandra again my girl. But we're gonna throw it back

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Speaker 1: now to uh. Well, I think she's historical, but let's

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Speaker 1: go ahead and get into it. We want to talk

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Speaker 1: about the first female Ninja or couldn't which assassin spy

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Speaker 1: Machizuki chium. Of course, information on her life and her

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Speaker 1: work and her history is a bit foggy, even to

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Speaker 1: the point many debate even if she existed, So we

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Speaker 1: don't actually know it. Again much just like many of

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Speaker 1: the other spies. You don't want information, and if you

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Speaker 1: know the history of ninja's, they should not exist. You

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Speaker 1: should not actually know who they are. So these are

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Speaker 1: soldiers who are supposed to be in the background. So

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Speaker 1: there's a debate was she real or was she just

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Speaker 1: kind of a legend. But here is some historical ideas

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Speaker 1: about her, and some of the other theories include that

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Speaker 1: maybe it wasn't just one woman, maybe it was several

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Speaker 1: women who used this name or that yeah, or that

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Speaker 1: she did exist, but the stories and legends were overly

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Speaker 1: exaggerated to make them legends. Who knows, but what is

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Speaker 1: said about Mochizuki Chium. According to some, Chium was a

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Speaker 1: noble woman married to a samurai in the Suck district

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Speaker 1: of Shinano in the sixteenth century and was a descendant

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Speaker 1: of the ninja Matchuzuki Izumu no Kami, so she has

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Speaker 1: lineage and after the death of her husband during a battle,

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Speaker 1: she was approached by Takeita Shingen of the Takita clan

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Speaker 1: to become a ninja and to find other women to

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Speaker 1: build a secret group of female ninjas, which she did

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Speaker 1: and trained these women to collect the information, seduced men,

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Speaker 1: and even kill if needed. The women were trained to

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Speaker 1: act as they were needed, whether it was to be

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Speaker 1: a priestess, a maide, or even a prostitute. Disguises in

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Speaker 1: lying to fit apart were a major part of their training,

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Speaker 1: so not only did they get all these ninja skills,

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Speaker 1: but to become whatever woman they needed to be. And

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Speaker 1: from the outside world, It's coalition seemed to be just

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Speaker 1: a shelter for young women who were in need of help,

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Speaker 1: whether trying to survive or were orphaned, and many thoughts

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Speaker 1: Chum was a motherly figure trying to shelter these women

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Speaker 1: and give them what they need and care for them,

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Speaker 1: when in actuality she created this fierce organization of women ninjas,

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Speaker 1: which some say grew up to be over three hundred

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Speaker 1: women in the organization they were forced to be breaking

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Speaker 1: with and the Takada clan became very powerful. Of course,

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Speaker 1: the story goes on to talk about how Takada Shinian

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Speaker 1: was actually killed, and they don't know who killed him.

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Speaker 1: There's different stories whether it was actually herself or whether

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Speaker 1: he was assassined by the more powerful clans or opposing clans.

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Speaker 1: She eventually disappears in history, and again there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of rumors to what happened to her and her organization,

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Speaker 1: including maybe she was violently assassinated. So there's like more theories.

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Speaker 1: Of course, there are no records to show of them

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Speaker 1: or how it came to an end, so this is

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Speaker 1: a big mystery and also has been movies, and she's

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Speaker 1: actually shown up as characters in different video games, Assassin

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Speaker 1: video games, so it's very interesting to see. But I

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Speaker 1: she was the reason I wanted to do this episode.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk because I'm like, oh my God, it's a

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Speaker 1: female ninja and we need to talk about her. Again,

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Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of information, and there's different

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Speaker 1: people saying different things, and a lot of it are

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Speaker 1: just blog posts and or hopes, especially for those who

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Speaker 1: are fascinated by the Japanese culture and the ninja culture,

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Speaker 1: which is fascinating, let's be real, honest, which is why

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Speaker 1: we have so many ninja karate movies throughout. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: have her as possibly a historical figure who ran and

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Speaker 1: all women's ninja organization. Yeah, terrifying. I'm telling you, that's

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Speaker 1: what I've learned through watching these movies and shows. They're like,

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Speaker 1: this is a scary place. So we didn't want to

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Speaker 1: talk about the next fictional intrigue. But first we're gonna

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Speaker 1: pause for a quick break for word from our sponsor,

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Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsored. So before we go

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Speaker 1: into the next person on my fictional female assassins spices,

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Speaker 1: lest I did want to say there is some debate

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Speaker 1: over the definition of spies and assassin, right, especially assassin

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Speaker 1: in this case, I would say, but and there are

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Speaker 1: some in the Shoutouts slash Bonus list that I actually

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Speaker 1: would not say our assassins, but people included them on

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Speaker 1: their lists a lot, so um, at least in some

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Speaker 1: people's eyes. Yeah, I think I told you it was

427
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 1: interesting to go through my list because they confused assassin

428
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 1: with just killers. Serial killers. Yeah, serial killers. So I

429
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 1: was like, that's not what I would consider assassin because

430
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: you know that has some kind of political leaning typically

431
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: so and again, a lot of spies and we don't

432
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 1: talk about too many of them. Well, actually, I guess

433
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: when we talk about ChIL they were taught to kill

434
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 1: if necessary, and they did poison men and or do

435
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: what they needed to do. It wasn't a primary focus.

436
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 1: But some spies have killed, so right. Yes. So for

437
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: our next fictional assassin slashed by, we're talking about Arias

438
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 1: Stark from Game of Thrones. So so spoilers brief spoilers

439
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 1: in here if you haven't caught up. So these are

440
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 1: This show is based HBO show based on the g

441
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: RR Martin books, and Mayzie Williams plays are Stark, who

442
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: was this Tom Bloyd turned young assassin. After she loses

443
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: pretty much everything, Aria has to adapt to survive and

444
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 1: she becomes obsessed with getting revenge on those who have

445
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 1: wronged her, and she she recites the names of those

446
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: she plans to kill each night and throughout the days. Sometimes,

447
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 1: although her revenge does not always involve killing, worth pointing out,

448
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: she ends up training and combat espionas and assassination. Since

449
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: she's a young girl, most don't view her as a threat.

450
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: She's stubborn and patient, dedicated, independent, resistant to gender roles.

451
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 1: But as she ages in trains she becomes leful and

452
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 1: her impatience wayans. While she is in many ways unforgiving

453
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,360
Speaker 1: and vengeful, she is more empathetic than many in this

454
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: very rough game of throwing the world, and has more

455
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: of a sense of justice. When much of her trauma happened,

456
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 1: she was a child, so when it's fresh, she is

457
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: quick to promise murder to any slight, any slight against

458
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 1: her family. The first man she kills mocked her recently

459
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: slaughtered older brother, which she has is more than a slight,

460
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: but she stabs him to death of a knife. But

461
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: with time, this impulsive vengeful violence lessons, making way for

462
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 1: a colder, planned revenge. I think that's one thing that

463
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: separates her from I think everyone else on this list.

464
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: She was a kid, and I would argue that she

465
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,959
Speaker 1: was like traumatized, so she kind of went through this

466
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: assassined face and then like left it right. But yeah,

467
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: because this is set a fantasy world, she learns how

468
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: to have no face, meaning she can assume the face

469
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 1: of just about anyone. And this is after taking on

470
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: harsh training under the House of Black and White, and

471
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: it takes her a minute to let go of her

472
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: identity of Arius Stark is something important to her and

473
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: she never really fully does. She still uses the name.

474
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 1: She hides her beloved sword needle when she was supposed

475
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,400
Speaker 1: to destroy it. She has to learn how to lie,

476
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: which is kind of a long lesson for her. She

477
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: admits she is not ready to be no One, but

478
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 1: she is ready to become someone else. She's also different

479
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 1: than the others on the little list because she wants

480
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: to kill who she wants to kill and is less

481
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 1: interested in taking on assignments from a higher power, which

482
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: gets her into trouble a lot. Through her training. Her

483
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: assassin identity or non identity consumes her for a while,

484
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 1: but when she deems her training as complete, she reclaims

485
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: her name and returns home. And if you were on

486
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 1: her kill list, you were out of luck. You were

487
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: out of luck. She would kill you after you ate

488
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: a pie of your old sons. It was just brutal.

489
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: She she did end up killing. The show is Big

490
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,479
Speaker 1: Bad the Night King. However, Yeah, she gives up on

491
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: a quest revengeance. In the end, she moves out of

492
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: this assassin phase and decides instead to try to protect

493
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: and becomes an explorer. However, I still would not mess

494
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: with her no way. Yeah, she definitely had the big

495
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: moments in Game of Thrown and I think yeah, and

496
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 1: then all the dudes were like, no way she could

497
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: do it and she could watch she did. About What

498
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: about that? Well, I am going to talk about one

499
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: of the first assassins instead of just the spy here.

500
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: Charlotte Corday, who was also known as the Angel of

501
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 1: Assassination and Charlotte Corday was a noble woman in Normandy

502
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: who during the French Revolution was part of the Giordan

503
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 1: Conservative Party and worked her way into the presence of

504
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: Jean Paul Mara, who was a radical Montagnard, So he

505
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: was pretty big during this time. And he was the

506
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: editor of the Liami du Pla, which is translate the

507
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: Friend of the People, and it was a newspaper during

508
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: that time, and it was also the author of a

509
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: friend la patri or offering to our country, So obviously

510
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: he was a big part of the movement and changing

511
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: in the Radical Party. She, however, under the pretense that

512
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: she was trying to come and give him some information,

513
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: was able to see morale and while he was taking

514
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: one of his medicinal baths apparently he had a condition

515
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: in which he needed to be bathed often, she proceeded

516
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: to stab him to death, which, by the way, is

517
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: depicted in a really famous Jacques Louis Davie point painting,

518
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: The Death of Murak. I think if you saw this

519
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: painting you would be like, oh, yeah, I definitely know

520
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: this one is the dude that's hanging out the bathtub

521
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: with the newspaper in his hand. Really gorgeous painting. Of course,

522
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: four days after he really is four days after the

523
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: assassination in Corday was executed for her crime. But she

524
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: became famous because she was unexpected. It's kind of one

525
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: of those exactly what you sit there that wow she

526
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: did that where she came in and felt like her

527
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: country was being threatened by this man, and apparently he

528
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: was known to be cruel during that point in time,

529
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: and so she went after him, and because no one

530
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: assumed this frail young woman could do anything, she got

531
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: to him and was able. She was the Aria who

532
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: ended up dying to be fair and not trained, per say,

533
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: but was able to pull off something that no one

534
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: else could at that point in time. Yeah. Yeah, well

535
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: now for our next fictional entry. And I love the

536
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: idea that someone kind of dozed off in the beginning

537
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: and they wake up and they're like, wait, what is happening.

538
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about Black Widow. There we go. Yes,

539
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: so disclaimers always with these comic book characters, there are

540
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: so many multiverses, and if for you those keeping up

541
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: with current Marvel stuff, you know what I'm talking about,

542
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: it can get real messy. So we're gonna be focusing

543
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: primarily on the films here. So Natasha Romanov a K

544
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: Black Widow played by Scarlett Johansson. I mean she like

545
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: holds her own with the Avengers, goes against quote gods

546
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: and monsters without powers. So yeah, she was a founding member.

547
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: After she was recruited by Clint Barton a K Hawkeye,

548
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: she said, I have a very specific skill set. I

549
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: didn't care who I used it for, or on I

550
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: got on Shields Radar in a bad way. She was

551
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: changed from a very young age as a k GBS

552
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: Asassin also was one time a dancer. That's a recurring

553
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: theme on this list. And even after she joined Shield

554
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: and the Avengers, she still utilized her spy stealth and

555
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: infiltration skills as well as her combat and weapons training.

556
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: You can go look because of course someone's compiled all

557
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: the training she has and it's pages and pages long.

558
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: She also uses her weapon widows Bite, which is that

559
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: glowing blue electroshock them around her wrist. You know. It's

560
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: a grappling hick, a taser, disk shooter, a charger for

561
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: expandable batons. I'm gonna say those things like that are

562
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: why I could not be a spy, because I would

563
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: have gotten myself like I just like the minute I

564
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: looked at it, kind of like the main with Luke

565
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: looking into his lightsaber. That would be that moment of

566
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: me like tasting myself because I'm like cool. You know,

567
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: it's so funny you mentioned that because Google does me

568
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: so well, but it's embarrassing. This morning they were like

569
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: Mark Cambell, So that's what me makes some crunch and

570
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: I was like, I know which one it is, and

571
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: it was which is not in the movie, But all right, yeah,

572
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: this thing also has like strangling wire. It's it's very multifunctional.

573
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: She was trained in the Red Room, as you said,

574
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: where the graduation ceremony involved sterilization quote. One less thing

575
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: to worry about makes everything easier, even killing. She was

576
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: top of her class, though she struggled after she was

577
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: forced to kill an innocent man. She has definitely sexualized

578
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: and often weaponizes her femininity and the fact that people

579
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: think she is a woman who can't possibly be that strong.

580
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: She weaponizes that too. Um. She's pretty manipulative. She's good

581
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: at lying and reading people. She is interrogating people who

582
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: believe they are interrogating her. When we first see her

583
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: in The Avengers, she tricks low Key to find out

584
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: his motive in that movie too. She's intelligent, good of technology,

585
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: good at playing roles, pretty sarcastic. She first appeared in

586
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: the movies An Iron Man two when she goes undercover

587
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: just by on Tony Stark, which I thought was a

588
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: very convoluted plotline, but whatever. She later helped recruit Tony

589
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: Stark and Bruce Banner to join the Adventures in the

590
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: first Adventures movie, partly motivated by her to termination to

591
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: save Hawkeye from Loki's control, which she eventually does, and

592
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: she's the one that figures out how to close the

593
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: portal to stop the aliens that are attacking from New York.

594
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: I love explaining to lots of these movies because they

595
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: sound so weird when they're like out of context. In

596
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: many ways, she does become the heart of the Avengers.

597
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 1: She calls them her family, and she helps train the

598
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: second generation of members. She leaves the Avengers post snap

599
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: and sacrifices herself so that their mission has a chance

600
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: of succeeding. She is empathetic and understanding. She doesn't get

601
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: up on people. She's sort of a reformed assassins. What

602
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: I'm trying to say, I think, like because when I

603
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,479
Speaker 1: was reading through this and like she at one time was,

604
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: but when we see her, that's that's sort of a

605
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: past life and she still uses those skills, but not

606
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: really her thing. While I'm excited about the Black Widow movie,

607
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: which I does realize it's still not come out. Oh

608
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: she's yeah, h Smithy watch party. Yeah, she's trying to

609
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: make amends for her past, and that's why this discovery

610
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: that Shield has been infiltrated by Hydra and the Winter

611
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: Soldier hits her so hard because she realized she didn't

612
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 1: know who Slash she was telling. Also common theme in

613
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: these spy stories. She blows all of her covers at

614
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: the end and then goes off the grid. And then

615
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 1: you see her working through this during Civil War, first

616
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,399
Speaker 1: sighting with Tony Stark over the Cecobia Chords, but then

617
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: helping her friend Captain America, forcing her to once again

618
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: go off the grid and go on the run with

619
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: Captain America post snap for the blip. She's the term

620
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: to keep fighting to make things better. And I do

621
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: want to put asterix here. I feel like maybe fictional

622
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: women around the world, I will return to this because

623
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: a lot of you are probably being like, well, there's

624
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: a lot of feminist issues you could unpack here about

625
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: like the serialization thing, the sexualization thing, the fact that

626
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: she's the one that sacrifices. It's like not many women

627
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: to go around. But yes, we're gonna put a pin

628
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: in that for now and move on, right. I will

629
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: say I do love her relationship with Captain America Steve Rogers,

630
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: that is platonic way. I'm like, yeah, finally, my god.

631
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: Although they at the beginning it did seem like they

632
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: were trying to Yeah, well, I think they were pretty

633
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: much with anybody with her at that point. Maybe forward,

634
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 1: Well we're gonna go and take it back to the

635
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: Civil War. Oh yeah, I did that. So we have

636
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: a Canadian woman, Sarah in the Edmunds who escaped an

637
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: abusive home and and actually an arranged marriage, left and

638
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: changed her name from Edmunds to Edmund's Son, and she

639
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,760
Speaker 1: eventually made her way into the United States around eighteen

640
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: fifty eight, when she decided to disguise herself as a

641
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: man so she could travel across the country and secure

642
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: a job. She called herself Franklin Thomas and soon worked

643
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 1: as a very successful traveling Bible salesman. Yeah, as the

644
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,760
Speaker 1: Civil War began in the States, she decided to enlist

645
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: as Franklin Thomas to assist in the war on the

646
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 1: Union side. By the way, she nursed wounded soldiers in

647
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: the hospital and worked as an attendant for them for

648
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: a while, but was moved to becoming a mail carrier

649
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: during that time for the Union, so she would actually

650
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: travel and these really dangerous conditions to carry mil uh huh.

651
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: She eventually was asked to be a spy and was

652
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: sent to get information behind enemy lines the Confederacy. She

653
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: often disguised herself as a woman, so she was a

654
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: woman pretending to be a man pretending to be a woman,

655
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: which I thought was awesome, or sometimes as an Irish peddler.

656
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: Of course, not much of this information was found on

657
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: record since she was supposed to be a spy, but

658
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: was part of her own retelling in her memoir Nurse

659
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: and Spy in the Union Army. She kept seeing some

660
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: battle time and even getting injured while trying to carry mail,

661
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: but eventually left after being denied furlough when she contracted

662
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: malaria and she was afraid of being discovered as a

663
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: woman if she sought medical attention, and so Franklin Thomas

664
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: left and was charged with desertion. So she released her

665
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: memoirs in eighteen sixty four and gave a pretty much

666
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: a tell all with some fictional takes on some of

667
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: the events. So I guess she's kind of embellished, but

668
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: she gave all the profits she made. Two different soldiers

669
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: aid group, so it wasn't about her um and she

670
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 1: actually went to her infantry reunion in eighteen seventies six

671
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: and was received with open arms, and I was eventually

672
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: recognized by the military and cleared of desertion charges as

673
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: well as given a pension, so she had the backing

674
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: of her soldiers, which I believe was the second Michigan

675
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: battalion that she was able to get her pension, which

676
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: by the way, apparently literally took an Act of Congress

677
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty four for her to receive. But after

678
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,760
Speaker 1: her death, she was buried with military honors at Washington

679
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: Cemetery in Washuston, and a year before her death, she

680
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 1: was admitted to the Grand Army of the Republic, which

681
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: made her the one and only female member, which I

682
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: was super cool. So we've talked about different other soldiers,

683
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: and she was another one. To be fair, she was

684
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: a wee Canadian woman, so there's a little difference in

685
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: her story, but she was able to get pension and

686
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:56,240
Speaker 1: she was able to get recognition for her work. Yeah, well,

687
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: hard pivot from the Civil War. Our next fictional character

688
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: is Hannah, which I just watched last night and I've

689
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 1: been meaning to watch this for a while because people

690
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: kept saying, this is a movie you'd really like, and

691
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm not sure, but I did like it.

692
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: So this is a film by Joe Right where Seorcia

693
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: Ronan plays sixteen year old Hannah Heller, who was raised

694
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: from a young age to be an assassin, trained in

695
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: the Finnish wilderness by her father, who was a former

696
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: Black Ops officer. The CIA enhanced her DNA to give

697
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,439
Speaker 1: her exceptional strength as part of a program to create

698
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: super soldiers. Her father ran away with her and now

699
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: they're kind of both on this list of you know,

700
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 1: must kill and she's very deadly, she has weapons training,

701
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 1: she can speak multiple languages. Her her father is very

702
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 1: precise in the training of her, like never lets her

703
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: sleep without attacking her and always questioning her to answer

704
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 1: in these different languages. So while on a mission across

705
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: Europe handed to her by her father, she is hunted

706
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: by Marissa Widegler who's played by Kate blenche Uh. And

707
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: she's an intelligent officer that actually Hannah thought she'd killed.

708
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 1: That was her mission was to kill her, but it

709
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: was a ploy, so she killed the wrong woman. She

710
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: killed a woman dressed like her, and there is an

711
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: Amazon Prime show based on the movie with Esma creed

712
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: Mile as Hannah. Because of how Hannah was raised so isolated,

713
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: she's quite curious about the outside world, like she's never

714
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: heard music, she doesn't know what dancing is, those kinds

715
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: of things. But also she's very very paranoid, which makes sense.

716
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: It's an assassin coming of age story. Okay, so I

717
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: do know. I didn't. I haven't watched it, but I've

718
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 1: seen the previews for the Hannah Amazon Prime show and

719
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,919
Speaker 1: I was like, hey, I know this. I didn't haven't

720
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 1: watched either one in those. Yeah, but I do think

721
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: it's interesting, like the fact that Amazon Prime take this

722
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: and made it a series. They did the same thing

723
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: not necessarily with Black Widow but Chilled and made it

724
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: a spy show on its own. So I do find

725
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: that interesting too, because it is it's a very big

726
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: story that you could take in big rabbit holes like

727
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 1: you like thank helps that you don't realize it's going

728
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 1: to happen. Yes, absolutely you can. And we probably have

729
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 1: more twist and turns in this episode. But first we

730
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: have one more break for wordsim Oor sponsor Eric back,

731
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsored twist and turns yes because I am

732
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: now going to take it back to World War Two. Okay,

733
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: so we're coming because Hannah was kind of like today,

734
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: what if she's a spy? And I'm going to talk

735
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 1: about nor any Yacht Khan, who was born to an

736
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: American mother and Indian father in Moscow in nineteen fourteen,

737
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: and she was a direct descendant of eighteenth century Muslim

738
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: ruler of my Sore Tippoo Sultan. Her father was a

739
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: musician and a Sufi teacher and moved the family to

740
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 1: London and individually to Paris, where Khan was able to

741
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: get her education and eventually become a children's writer. After

742
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 1: the fall of Paris in nineteen forty, she actually escaped

743
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: to London where she joined the w A, a f

744
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: or Women's Auxiliary Air Force. It was said her father

745
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: had instilled in her the desire for non violence in

746
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: the unity of all religions, which is what Sufie was,

747
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 1: and that she had learned from an early age to

748
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: stand up for those who are oppressed and was willing

749
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: to sacrifice to do so. So that though she was

750
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,479
Speaker 1: not a British citizen, she wanted to work and help

751
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: in this fight. Soon after she joined the w A

752
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: a F. Khan was recruited to join the Special Operations

753
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 1: Executive or s OE, which was a secret British organization

754
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: that since spies in occupied areas of Europe. So with

755
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: con education and her ability to speak French fluently, this

756
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: was perfect for her, so she against. She knew different

757
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,760
Speaker 1: languages and was able to fit in and she became

758
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 1: the first woman a wireless operator sent by the U K.

759
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 1: And she actually went into France and worked with the

760
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: Prosper which was a French resistance network. But when she

761
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 1: first arrived, all of her high ranking agents were captured

762
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: as well as their equipment by the Nazis, leaving Khan

763
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 1: as the only operator for the next few months. Unfortunately,

764
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 1: she was eventually arrested by the Gestapo or the Nazi

765
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 1: secret police, after one of her colleagues betrayed her. So

766
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: you have all of these like twists and turns that

767
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,399
Speaker 1: there is a movie out by the way that was

768
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: released last year, I believe um. And she was tortured

769
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: and placed in isolation by the Nazis for information, but

770
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: she never gave any information and was eventually executed and

771
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 1: as in fact, one of the people who questioned her

772
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 1: talked about how impressed he was of her because she

773
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 1: was so brave and so steady. So I thought that

774
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: was really really interesting. In August, nor became the first

775
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: South Asian woman to be given the Blue Plaque, and

776
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 1: there's possible talks of her being on a British coin

777
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 1: as well, which would be super cool. She was also

778
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: awarded the George Cross and the French di Gia after

779
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: her death, and the statue was also envelved in twelve

780
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: in London honoring what she did for the war. So

781
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: she used a big figure. And also there's this big

782
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: conversation of the fact that at that time she was

783
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: a follower of Mahatma Gandhi and even said, you know,

784
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: after the war, she would have to side with India

785
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: over Britain, even though she had fought for and and

786
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: it was you know, in service of Britain, but because

787
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: where her heart lies. And again she was about representing

788
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: for those who are oppressed, and she saw this community

789
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: as being oppressed and she was absolutely right. But it

790
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 1: was really interesting the fact that she's finally being recognized

791
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: and giving all the accolades that she should be given.

792
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 1: And just being and seeing what she had done and

793
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 1: that she had died in service for a country that

794
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: wasn't technically hers. Right, Well, that's an interesting segue until

795
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: my next fictional pick, which is Red Sparrow. And I

796
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: chose this one very specifically because it does include the

797
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: heavy element of sex pionage, which I think we'd come

798
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,320
Speaker 1: back and do a whole episode on because the school

799
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: that they mentioned in this book slash movie that Red

800
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: Spirit goes to may or may not be real. It

801
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 1: might actually be a that people went to and learned

802
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: to basically have sex and have no attachments. So it's

803
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: a book by Jason Matthews that's set in modern day Russia,

804
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: which had a movie that came out recently in which

805
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: the titular character was played by Jennifer Lawrence. I also

806
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: watched this again last night, and I will tell you

807
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: it is tough. That was a tough watch. I enjoyed it,

808
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: but all right, So, after famous ballerino Dominica A Guarova

809
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 1: suffers an injury that ends her dancing career, which was

810
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:32,240
Speaker 1: gruesome and on purpose, she is coerced into joining Russia's

811
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: Foreign Intelligent Service, the SBR, in order to support her

812
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 1: ailing mother. She has trained as a sparrow, which is yes,

813
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 1: someone who uses their body and seduction as a weapon,

814
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,240
Speaker 1: also called sex pionage and given the code name Diva.

815
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 1: The world she operates in is brutal. There's torture and

816
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: there's rape, and there's no room for failure, and even

817
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: if you don't fail, they'll probably torture you. And there's

818
00:44:55,160 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 1: so much backstabbing you really can't trust anybody. And the

819
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,800
Speaker 1: training for these fairs involved stripping naked and performing sex

820
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: acts on strangers in front of other strangers, detaching from

821
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 1: their bodies. These lessons that are taught by the unforgiving

822
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 1: Matron and Dominica's main weapon is, as quote, an anonymous

823
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: sex object, even though this obviously limits her in her capabilities,

824
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 1: which some have interpreted as a direct criticism of the

825
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: depiction of women in this genre, like the movie and

826
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,399
Speaker 1: book were directly criticizing those things. But in the end,

827
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: she is the one who gets revenge. That's pretty sad,

828
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: swaring playing those that thought they were playing her. When

829
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: I was watching this though, it was another one of

830
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: those things, was like, damn, she's smart. I would have

831
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: just been like, I'm screwed. She figures these things out

832
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:47,919
Speaker 1: on the fly, and she was really good at reading people.

833
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 1: That was kind of a whole thing which she could

834
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: immediately figure out that puzzle piece of wants and needs

835
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: that people had and fit into it. From David Simms

836
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 1: at The Atlantic, this is a secret agent story in

837
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: which the secret agent angrily complains that she got sent

838
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: to whre school by her government, one that tries to

839
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: flush out the undercurrent of misogynistic coercion inherent in so

840
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: many of these narratives. Yeah, it kind of reminds me

841
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 1: of the storyline with the Americans. And I only watched

842
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: a couple of episodes which has Carrie Russell and her

843
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 1: now husband, but they are Russian spies that are sent

844
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: into the US. But they have a small sing where

845
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: she is being trained and she gets britally raped by

846
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: a teacher. But that's being taught. This is what you

847
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 1: have to deal with, this is what you're gonna have

848
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: to learn, so to learn here. So it's kind of like, oh,

849
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 1: what's happening? But yeah, I think and it was so

850
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 1: funny as I was researching it. Red Sparrow did come

851
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 1: up and a lot of different lists of people came

852
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,399
Speaker 1: into this, and we when we talk about the more

853
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 1: modern spies, you see that a little more mentioned now

854
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: not necessarily that it wasn't done because we talked about

855
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: the female ninjas and one of the things they talked

856
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: about was being gageous and prostitutes and being sent out

857
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 1: as well as priestless to be prostitutes. And you know,

858
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 1: in their presence to get that information. However, you know

859
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: you too, and they don't expect the prostitute to be

860
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 1: a spy necessarily, which we know is a plotline for

861
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: a lot of the movies because partially it's true. And

862
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: a lot of the old school spies, whether we're talking

863
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: about the KGB because I saw KGB references, which again

864
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: you're not supposed to know much about, but a lot

865
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,879
Speaker 1: of had like details of being dancers, are are hookers

866
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,240
Speaker 1: or all of these things that you see. It happened

867
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: a lot more than we know and or that's the

868
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: part we know about them because that was the public persona.

869
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 1: So there's that. Yeah, So that is kind of a conclusion.

870
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 1: I do have a little bit of bonus and just

871
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 1: kind of some mentions just to name a few more

872
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 1: historical spies that we could dig into later Christine Grantville,

873
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: who was Britain's first female special agent. Belle Boyd A k.

874
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: Lad Ribbin has a spy for the Confederacy during the

875
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 1: Civil War in the US. And then Josephine Baker, which

876
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 1: I know people have know that name, who was an

877
00:47:55,320 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: American born French dancer entertainer, was also a French resistant spy. Yeah,

878
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: there's plenty. Yeah, there were so many that I was like, Okay,

879
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 1: who am I going to focus on? Yeah, it was

880
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 1: hard to choose, which is why I also have a

881
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: bone dispensioned. And then some shoutouts of course I know

882
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 1: you had to, you had to. I know you didn't,

883
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 1: and you know I had to include the Star Wars one,

884
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 1: which is mar je Aide And actually, I bet she's

885
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 1: gonna show up in cannon suit like official Disney cannons.

886
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: So he just giving your little heads up. So in

887
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 1: the Star Wars Extended Universe slash Legends UM, which is

888
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: no longer canon, but before Disney came along, this is

889
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 1: what was up. She was a secret assassin raised and

890
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 1: trained by the Emperor himself. She became so deadly that

891
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 1: she earned the title the Emperor's hand, and she hears

892
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,280
Speaker 1: this prophecy in her head that she will kill Luke Skywalker,

893
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: So of course she hunts him down and then she

894
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 1: finds him and catches him and they fallen love and

895
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,320
Speaker 1: she's like, oh no, I can't kill him, but I must.

896
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 1: But twist, the evil Wizard who is now in power,

897
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: has used Luke's cut off hand to clone Luke and

898
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: make an evil Luke. We're two of you, Skywalker. So

899
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: she kills Luke and Mary's Luke and becomes a Jedi.

900
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: And this w plot twist is one of my very

901
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 1: favorite things ever. I laughed and laughing, laugh, and I

902
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: love it and I am definitely laughing um. And then

903
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 1: bonus just too, I know that they exist. There's Mrs

904
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 1: Smith the Bride, which we said pretty much anyone and

905
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 1: kill Bill alias may Day in a view to kill

906
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: salt Nikita a on flex Elizabeth Jennings from the Americans, Yep,

907
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,839
Speaker 1: Samantha Kine played by Gina Davis Trumble a long Kiss

908
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 1: good Night, which I forgot about. It was a good

909
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 1: throwback Tragy p Hansen's Mary Goodwin and Proud Mary. So

910
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 1: at least they're on in Atomic Blonde and a bunch

911
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: of other things. She's an assassin a lot. She's assassin

912
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 1: a lot. Yes, angel she could do it well. And

913
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 1: Angela Jolie I feel like they actually could do it

914
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: except famous name, but being badasses in general. Yes. And

915
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 1: then there's death Strike Electra. I say that with a

916
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: lilt because I think I would argue whether or not

917
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 1: she's an assassin depending on which piece of fiction you're reading.

918
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: But anyway, Lucy Anna Eva. And then Genesis, which I

919
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,240
Speaker 1: just want to throw in there is the favorite character

920
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:18,280
Speaker 1: I've ever written. And she is weirdly an assassin slashed

921
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: by but I love her and she's a hot mess

922
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:24,959
Speaker 1: and terrifying, like all of them are kind of hot messages. Yeah,

923
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: so kind of just like, why are these lives are

924
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: so fascinating? Well, We've looked at the many movies and

925
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 1: characters that represent the world, and is obvious we can't

926
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 1: get enough. They keep coming. I'm I'm reaterally waiting full

927
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 1: of black Widow, like I'm so excited for it. Um.

928
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: And the one thing we saw throughout our research was

929
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: that many believe because women are seeing as mild manner

930
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 1: and often either sexually or motherly, therefore that couldn't be

931
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,240
Speaker 1: any possible threat from them, right, They're not real threats,

932
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 1: which makes them even more effective. Yeah, that was one

933
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 1: of my favorite slash most annoying things watching a Sparrow

934
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 1: last night. It was how many times they're like, oh,

935
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: you're a Sparrow, you can do like these really sexual things, right,

936
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 1: but you're only doing it for your spy thing, right,

937
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: And then she does it and they like fall for it.

938
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, but you just said you know what she is,

939
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,320
Speaker 1: that she did it, and you're the dumb ones to

940
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 1: evolve war it, So okay, yes, yes, please listeners, let

941
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 1: us know if we miss anybody, if you want us

942
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 1: to go into more detail on any of these characters

943
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 1: or historical or fiction. Either way, we would love to

944
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 1: hear from you. All right. Email is Stephanie to your

945
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:34,399
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at ihart meia dot com. You can find

946
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:36,919
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You. We're

947
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: on Twitter at momsterf Podcast. Thanks as always to our

948
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: super producer Christina. Thank you Christina, and thanks to you

949
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 1: for listening Stuff I've Never Told You. Protection of iHeart Radio.

950
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: For more podcast from my Heart Radio, it's Diheart Radio

951
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: app Apple podcast or if you listen to your favorite shows,