1 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the gear Talk everyone. We have Janice 2 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: who tell us and myself on along with my buddy 3 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: Kendall Card of Crispy Boots. We've hunted together a couple 4 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: of times. Kendall, Yeah, we've been in the mountains together, 5 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: shared some experiences, fun times. Uh. Yeah, we just wanted 6 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: to have you hop on and talk with us about boots, 7 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: which I think is gonna be super fun. Perfect, that's easy. 8 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: I love talking boots. Yeah. Can you give a little 9 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: just a little background on what you're doing now and 10 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: a little bit of your boot background. Yeah, you bet. 11 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: We um as you know, and as as people that 12 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: might know know me. I started the hunting industry about 13 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: fifteen years ago, launched a website called Camel Fire, and 14 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: through that in Black Ovis got involved eventually in Crispy Um. 15 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: I've always been a gear guy. Um, whether it's been 16 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: rock climbing, mountaineering back into skiing, um, those have been 17 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 1: some passions of mine since since teenage years. So I've 18 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: always been really, like you, just a gear nerd. I 19 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: love geeking out on stuff. I love look at it, 20 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: not just the like I love to look at the 21 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: manufacturing side, Like why it's stitched this way or why 22 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 1: it's built that way. But anyway, we got got involved 23 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: with Crispy through an unfortunate but fortunate for me, a 24 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: situation with a previous distributor. Crispy has been around for 25 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: about fifty years, but the distributor had only been established 26 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: in the US for about three or four years, and 27 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: he made, uh, he made a couple of poor decisions 28 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: that led to our opportunity to help Crispy kind of 29 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: rejuvenate the brand. And then we've been the just North 30 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: North American distributor for Crispy for going on almost eight years. Now. 31 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: When you say you have been the distributor distributor, is 32 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: that now black Over is the main distributor or good question. No, 33 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: So we we have a separate company h called High 34 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: Traverse Distribution. It's a Chrispy US, so we it operates 35 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: separately and actually in a separate building. It's about thirty 36 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: thirty miles difference between where black Ovis and Camel Fire 37 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: are from from Crispy. So that, um, that's that's been 38 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: interesting too because even though I geeked out on gear 39 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 1: and I felt like I really understood footwear as well 40 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: as everything else going into the factory, and and even 41 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: just last week when I was in the factory and 42 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: watching some of the man the manufacturing processes and understanding 43 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: the why behind you know, little steps has really just 44 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 1: been super lightening and very interesting. And I continue to 45 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: geek out out on it. Even as much as I 46 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: think I might know, there's still so much I don't know. 47 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: So it's I love going into the factory setting and 48 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,799 Speaker 1: why watching and learning, uh, the why behind how boots 49 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: are built. So then as a as a distributor, that's 50 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: sort of that's your main point of contact for Crispy, 51 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: Like why is it important for you is just the 52 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: distributor to know the boots themselves and not just know 53 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: how to get them from point A to point B. So, well, 54 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: two things, that's a great question. Number one is obviously 55 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:29,679 Speaker 1: you can't you can pretend, uh, you know, And that's 56 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: that's what I think some of the great behind There's 57 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: some retailers out there that's simply just I'll buy this 58 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: product and I'll sell this product to somebody. And as 59 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: a distributor, we could easily just just send us whatever 60 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: is on the menu, We'll bring it over and we'll 61 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: sell it. To whoever's you know, wanting to buy it, 62 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: whether whether we whole sale through like one of our 63 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: partners like black Ovis or Shields or Midway, or we 64 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: we direct sell it to a consumer. Um. I think 65 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: number one, just from an integrity standpoint, you have to 66 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: understand the product you're selling, regardless of the brand. But 67 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: number two, we work with We work with the factory 68 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: very differently than say like Scarpa or Zamberlin or some 69 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: of the other really good bootmakers han wag And and 70 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 1: and Loa. A lot of those companies that are based 71 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: in Europe will essentially like, hey, this is this is 72 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: the menu, this is the product selection we've developed. Um, 73 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: this is what you're you're available to offer if you're 74 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: distributing in the US, for example, or if you're distribting 75 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: in Australia, and they'll send that out to you. One 76 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: thing that Crispy does which is super unique and and 77 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: it's funny because when we were there, they were building 78 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 1: a boot for the Norwegian market, for the Scanny navy market, 79 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: and we looked at it was like, hey, like it 80 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: kind of a little bit of fomo, like why can't 81 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 1: we sell that boot? But we work we work with 82 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: Italy in a way that we developed specific product for 83 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: this market and so in in in some way we're 84 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: helping to dictate eight the direction and the why based 85 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: on their foundational like building strategies. So our distributorship is 86 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: a little different than a normal distribution company where we 87 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: would just we just happen to have a link with 88 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: the fact that we buy it, we have exclusivity in 89 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: North America, then we sell it. Um, we get involved 90 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: and that's that's both because we're interested as well as 91 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 1: North America runs the gamut. I believe in the hunting industry, 92 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: like we we set the pace and we set the 93 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,799 Speaker 1: tone for the world. Not that you know we're better, 94 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: but we just simply from a trend and product development. Um, 95 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,799 Speaker 1: you know standpoint. And maybe you guys might feel differently, 96 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: but I I think that it'll crispy. Italy has recognized 97 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: the North American market is is that pace setter, and 98 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 1: so um they've allowed us, you know, honestly allowed us 99 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: to work with them in a very unique way. Let's 100 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: go back to that special boot though real quick is 101 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: it would it be the same way like if you 102 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: developed a special boot for this market, then they wouldn't 103 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: let it go to other markets, like you'd have some 104 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: sort of exclusivity. Absolutely, Yeah, Like there's a there's a 105 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: number of boots UM like the Idaho, the Wyoming, the 106 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: Brickstall SF that we just created UM, the Brickstall pro 107 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 1: Um Jordan. I think you might have had a chance 108 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: to to use that boot. UM. Those boots are unique 109 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: to the North American market only. So even though some 110 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: of our hunting brethren in New Zealand and Australia would 111 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: love to get their hands on those, they can't. They 112 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: can't distribute that boot. UM. They might take some of 113 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: the main established boots like the Guide or the Nevada, 114 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: the Hunter and utilize those UM in their markets. M 115 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: it's unique because the most company and most manufacturing companies 116 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: like let me go back to scarp Scarpets just down 117 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: the road from US in Italy, UM and our hotel 118 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: was literally across the street. So uh like Scarpet for example, 119 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: would not you know, build a boot and say okay, 120 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,239 Speaker 1: you can only sell that, you know only the US 121 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 1: market is exclusive on that. They typically will it's worldwide 122 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: or there might be some trends that would dictate one 123 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: boot in one area and one boot in another area, 124 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: or like it seems limiting to the company. It kind 125 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: of does, doesn't it. And I've actually we've had some 126 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: interesting back and forth with with Italy on and and 127 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: from a business standpoint, it's like I do almost rather 128 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: see some boots get worldwide distribution to kind of raise 129 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: the tide for all. But I think there's um it's 130 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: it's really a cool relationship with the president and found 131 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: the son of the founder, and he when we develop 132 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: a boot with him, he often looks at it like 133 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: like this, I want you guys to benefit from the 134 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: collaboration of the build um and some of them. You know, 135 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:53,559 Speaker 1: he's gonna come back to us a few times said hey, 136 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: the Norwegian really love this boot, or the guys in 137 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: New Zealand can we and like yeah, go for it, 138 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: or or sometimes we're like, man, we'd like to hang 139 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: on to that boot. We've spent a lot of time 140 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: in development and working with you on sampling and tweaking 141 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: and testing and stuff like that. So it is it's 142 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: super unique, and I don't some ways I don't understand 143 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: why they allow us to do it that way versus 144 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: how a lot of other boot companies do function. Um, 145 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: But I'm certainly grateful for the for the relationship in it. 146 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: It creates a tighter bond with us. And also I 147 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: think it creates a tighter bond with the product that 148 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: we're offering to two hunters in North America. And we 149 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: know those products inside and out because we've been through 150 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: the development process on on most every one of them. 151 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: Got it. Well, that's a good lead into uh, one 152 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: of our first questions here, and I think it's good. 153 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: I think we should try to stick to it, which 154 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: I'm sure you will because I think that's mostly what 155 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 1: Crispy makes, which by the way, Kendall, I have never ever, 156 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: I've never even skied in a pair of Crispy boots, 157 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: So I need I need to change that. Um. But 158 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: we're gonna be referencing like a standard hunting boot. I 159 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: think that uh, you know, it could be used Midwest, 160 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,439 Speaker 1: out West wherever. Like that's kind of what we're talking 161 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: about here when we're talking about when when Kendall's answering 162 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: these questions, we're not talking about you know, rubber you 163 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 1: know type boots that you might use whitetail deer hunting 164 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: for sand control. But like a more of a standard 165 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: mountain hunting boot. Um. So that being said, Kendall, give 166 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: us like the ten thousand foot view as quick as 167 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: we can of like the general makings of a boot, 168 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: like the parts and pieces, and then we'll try to 169 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: break it down from there. Yeah you bet. Um, the 170 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: when you see an upper so I'm talking everything. So 171 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 1: the various ingredients for a boot. You've got the soul 172 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: and then you have a mid soul. Um And oftentimes 173 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 1: people just think the soul in the midsore are one 174 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: and the same, but they're they're they're very different. The 175 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: soul is if you had, if you took the soul 176 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 1: off of a boot, would be completely floppy, like a 177 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: like a New York pizza slice. That just like just 178 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: super floppy. Um. When you say soul, that's the that's 179 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: the bottom most part layer of the boot. Yeah, the tread. 180 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: So if you look at most boots, if you look 181 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: at most boots, um, the bottom the boy the color 182 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: there's a colouration change between the soul and the mid 183 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: sole ever so slightly. Even if you've got like a 184 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: dark gray or black, you can see that. So it's 185 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: just that bottom tread. And when when a when a 186 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: guy or gal takes a boot in to get re sold. 187 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: What they're talking about is they're just they'll take a knife, 188 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: literally a knife. I mean seeing these things. They're like 189 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: twelve fourteen inches long and kind of handles on both 190 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: sides or on some of them I've seen, and they'll 191 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: just they'll cut that that soul off and replace just 192 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: the tread so basic elements the soul. You've got the 193 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: mid soule, and that's composited of various different materials. You 194 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: might have a mid soule that's e v A, which 195 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: is a is a is a foam of various densities. 196 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: You might have injection molded, which is UH a way 197 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: that you can build boots faster and and less expensive. UM. 198 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 1: A lot of like your your boots out there, like 199 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: let's say like a solemn quest for d or some 200 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,719 Speaker 1: of the sala even some of the zamberlin um you 201 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: look at, and these are more kind of active, like 202 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: a running shoe that's a that's an injection molded. UM, 203 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:25,719 Speaker 1: they're very it's a lot cheaper to you to to 204 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: do UM. And usually that is an e v A foam. 205 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: So then you have polyurethane, which is a more dense, 206 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: heavier UH material that's used in mid souls UH and 207 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: and Vibrant makes most of those. You do have some 208 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: other companies that might make some UH strategically for their 209 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: own you know, manufacturing. We Crispy uses a lot of 210 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: Vibrant products. In fact, we have a partnership with Vibrant 211 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: IF and some of our mid souls are are exclusive 212 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: to us, and some of them, like there's a mid 213 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: soule that we use on the brick stall which is 214 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: used on Snaz uses it. I've seen it on a 215 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: couple other boots like throughout Europe UM. So it's not 216 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: there isn't a typically a mid soul that's made out 217 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,599 Speaker 1: of PU or out of out of out of e 218 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: v A if it's being done by the Vibram company, 219 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: that that is exclusive. So we have a couple that 220 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 1: are exclusive, and then others that we use universally that 221 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: other brands can certainly buy from Viram and use. But 222 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: the poly ethane mid soul is UH is kind of 223 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: the other option. The other piece of that is. And 224 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: then then you get to the upper and and the 225 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,839 Speaker 1: upper well real quick, real quick candle. Before you get 226 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: to the upper just so I'm imagining a boot in 227 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: my head and I can see the bottom tread part 228 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: and I'm following you there it's like real skinny, and 229 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: then you have the mid soul. As like a consumer 230 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: that just picks up a boot in the store, what 231 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: am I looking at? Or like? Is there any way 232 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: to sort of put mid sole um into more context 233 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: other than it's just another layer there. The two things 234 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: that you can do is look at You'll see coloration, 235 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: and then coloration changes within a mid sole sometimes will 236 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: be design oriented, but most of the time it's it's 237 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: differentiating different densities or the the how how firm or 238 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: how soft and midsole might be. So a consumer, if 239 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: I'm looking at a shelf and let's say sportsman's or shields, 240 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: and I pull one off the shelf and I can 241 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: kind of poke at different areas of the mid sole, 242 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: whether I'm using my finger or like you know, the 243 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: end of a pin. Something that would tell me like 244 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: what is it how soft is this mid sole or 245 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: how hard is this mid soule? And is it soft 246 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: in certain areas or or harder in other areas. That's 247 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: one thing you could do. The other thing that you'll 248 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: see on a mid sole. If you're just looking is 249 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: sometimes you'll be able to determine the type of material 250 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: I can call your thing versus e v A based 251 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: on the look um e v A is as a 252 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: kind of a distinguishing look or on weight overall weight 253 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: e v A Like if you put on a Payer 254 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: running shoes, I mean that EVA is so light. I 255 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:15,199 Speaker 1: mean you put on a Prayer running shoes, like, oh 256 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: my gosh, these things are unbelievable. There so lightweight, but 257 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: that foam because it doesn't have as much rebound over 258 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: a long period of time. That's why you know after running, 259 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: you know, Prayer running shoes, you know you after a year, 260 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: you might not even use those shoes to mow the 261 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: lawn in because they're so basically packed out or or compressed. Um. 262 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: But other guys, So if you're a consumer, you want 263 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: you can look at coloration differences, or you can look 264 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: at or you can feel differences in in the mid 265 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: soul being like more squishy in one area and less 266 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: squishy or more hard and soft in different areas. Um, 267 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: it's just so clear to the out so obviously is 268 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: for the grip and what the main purpose of the 269 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: mid soul is what it's cushioning. Cushioning and absorption of impact. UM. 270 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: You'll look at different debts like thicknesses. So for example, 271 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: we have a boot called the Thor and we have 272 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: a boot called the Summit and and they both use 273 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: dual density, two different densities e v A, but one 274 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: is thinner and one is thicker. So performance wise, what 275 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: you're gonna feel or if you look across any other 276 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: any other hunting brands, you'll see some that are really 277 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: thick and some that are thinner. Two things that's going 278 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: to affect. Number one is the mid soul is there 279 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: to to absorb impact. So as you're hiking with a 280 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: fifty pound pack for X number of miles over x 281 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: number of hunts, the goal for that mid soule is 282 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: to absorb as much of that impact as possible so 283 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: that it doesn't get transferred into your body. We're talking joints, 284 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: back hips, et cetera, as well as um because you 285 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: know it's you, and then you've got the guys that 286 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: are like, oh yeah, I just use you know, like uh, 287 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: you know, no, you know, vibrant five fingers. It's like 288 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: I'm I'm all into that whole like humans didn't have 289 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: shoes to begin with. Crowd It's like, wait a second, um, So, 290 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: so the mid sole is is both absorption and then 291 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: that is dictated by both thickness and material density and 292 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: type of material. And I imagine that the midsole is 293 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: also what designates the stiffness of the boot, not not entirely. 294 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: What's so. What's interesting. What's interesting is is when we're talking, 295 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: if we jump into stiffness and what the mid soul 296 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: does or doesn't do, the mid sol can influence how 297 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: like how how a boot may flex, but everything else 298 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: around the boot does as well. And that's one of 299 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: the it's one of the kind of the light bulb 300 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: moments that I've had in my progression of learning boot manufacturing. 301 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: I always thought that it was the mid soul, which 302 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: is not necessarily the case. It's the next layer that 303 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: you go up in it, which in in a In 304 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: some boots they put a shank. You've heard people say, oh, 305 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: we've got a metal shank or a composite shank, or 306 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: we've got what we call in our boot construction a board. Last, 307 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: which is is the length of the boot. It looks 308 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 1: looks very similar to like an insul, but that that 309 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: goes between the mid sole and then the upper part 310 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: of the boot, and that based on again density, type 311 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 1: of material, thickness of material, um, different zones like that 312 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: maybe at the ball the foot it might be thinner, 313 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: whereas the heel it might be thicker, um it might 314 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: taper in the arch of the foot. Um those that 315 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: is the primary designator of how stiff a boot might flex. 316 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: But they add the one thing that that changed my 317 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: perspective was that the mid sole does come into play. 318 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 1: The depth, the how deep the tread is on the 319 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 1: soul does come into play. If you're using a soul 320 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: um it's more like let's say like a running shoe 321 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 1: or a trailering shoe the versus a boot. You can 322 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: obviously see the different depth of the rubber. So you've 323 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: got more substance. Obviously, you know more substance is going 324 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: to flex be more stiff. But the upper part of 325 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: the boot we're talking like the leather or synthetic or combination, 326 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: whatever you're using on the upper does also change the 327 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: flex um. So it's like every ingredient makes the recipe, 328 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: but there's one ingredient that dictates the primary base of 329 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,439 Speaker 1: the recipe when you're talking stiffness or flex to the boot. 330 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: And I had always discounted the upper. I never thought 331 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,439 Speaker 1: that the upper had that much influence. But we have. 332 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: We have like a rating system, and other brands have 333 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: come up with different rating systems. We have boots that 334 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: use the exact same soul mid soul and the stiffness 335 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: of the board last that dictates the flex. And because 336 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: we use upper materials, you know, hunters will try and 337 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 1: mot to say, oh, I this it's definitely a softer 338 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 1: flex than this one. You're like, they're actually the exact same. 339 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: The only difference is the upper material and construction and 340 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: and and stitching here or there, that sort of thing. 341 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 1: So the upper will actually, I'm trying to think how 342 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,120 Speaker 1: to put this in words, but the upper will control 343 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: how much those bottom three layers can flex in some ways, yes, 344 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: or it it influences I would say I wouldn't say control. 345 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: I would say influences. What controls The main flex is 346 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: going to be that board last or that shank or 347 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: you know, depending on the manufacturer, whatever they design into 348 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: sitting on top of the midstle, but beneath the upper 349 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: material be it leather or be a synthetic. Would you 350 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: be stepping on the board last if you took the 351 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,640 Speaker 1: insol out, yeah, you would. The only thing that would 352 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: separate you from the board last or from that stiffening 353 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: element whatever you know other manufacturers might call. It is 354 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: typically a small felt or or very thin material um 355 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: in a boot that's gortex. You've obviously got the gortex booty, 356 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: but it's it's little and nothing. And so sometimes people 357 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: if the if the board last or the shank or 358 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: whatever is is thicker um or there's a lot of 359 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: substance there. That's why sometimes people might say, yeah, these 360 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: boots are comfortable, they fit my feet, but but I 361 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: feel it like feels like it's hard underneath my foot. 362 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: And maybe that's that's the response of the midst You know, 363 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: the in soul is not very cushioning um. But if 364 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: in the absence of a board last and the absence 365 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: of of anything that that is trying to dictate the 366 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: flex and you simply just have the upper and then 367 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: a mid soule um, it's going to feel whatever that 368 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 1: mid soul feels. That's back to my running shoe. If 369 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: you're in a running shoe, or if you're in a 370 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: lightweight hunting boot um like a Solomon or Solea, or 371 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: even like our TVA mid um, that boardlast is so 372 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 1: thin or not or basically non existent that you're feeling 373 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: the foam at various densities of that midstile. And so 374 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: you might find man, I love these because they're more comfortable, 375 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:18,640 Speaker 1: but there's nothing or very little to dictate like strength 376 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: of flex or or you know how much you want 377 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: the boot to control. You know your your stance on 378 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: the mountain side. Let's continue then moving moving upwards. So 379 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: we've got the kind of the bottom even though it 380 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 1: only looks like the bottom tenth of the boot, it's 381 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: more like the bottom half. But going up from there, 382 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 1: where do you even start? It's it's super interesting when 383 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: you and I've asked, so where you start on the 384 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: upper part of the boot is you're looking at raw materials, 385 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: so like in the Crispy warehouse, and I'm sure enough 386 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: in a scar up and and our friends of Zamberlin 387 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: down the road as well, you're looking at leathers. Um, 388 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 1: you're looking at rolls, So you've got rolls of leather 389 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: of various thicknesses, various um uh shredded, not stretched, but 390 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: just the feel, the touch. You've got a full grained 391 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,239 Speaker 1: leather that might be real hard um like a like 392 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,239 Speaker 1: a briefcase, you know, a thick stout briefcase might be 393 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 1: you know, out of leather, or you've got some really soft, 394 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: super pliable and you're taking those the various materials, or 395 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: you're looking at a synthetic like we use a micro 396 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 1: fiber synthetic. It's a full synthetic material that we're introducing 397 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 1: in a new boot for um that uh, Joe, I 398 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: don't know if you've got a chance to test that one. 399 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: Jordan's yeah, you do. We've uh, we've got we've so 400 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 1: I just wanted I've been testing this ball and it 401 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 1: looks just like a leather, but it's a because we've 402 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 1: brushed the outer Because sometimes you get those synthetic materials 403 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: that look like like just cheap plastic um. So you've 404 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 1: got various materials and so you're taking those and you're 405 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 1: stamping out or laser cutting that material and then you're 406 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: merging that with you know, either some padding or a 407 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 1: mesh liner or a gore, a gortex booty or a 408 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: waterproof breathable booty, and you're taking all those things and 409 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: you're you're sewing. Then the tongue and the you know, 410 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: the rivets and all those pieces get built until it 411 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 1: looks it looks like a flattened shoe because obviously it 412 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: hasn't been merged with the lower um and they come 413 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 1: out of the sewing area, and it's pretty interesting. It's 414 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: it's it's quite fascinating to watch it go from stamped 415 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: leather or or synthetic to the first stage of sewing, 416 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 1: to the rivets or the islets being you know, punched 417 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: and or and applied to then the underside material, which 418 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: is all the padding that we feel otherwise you'd you'd 419 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: have a Marcus effect. UM. Two, Then going into the 420 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: process where they start merging the upper to the lower elements. Um, 421 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: it's fascinating, it's super fascinating and it's fun. Can you 422 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 1: give us that? Can you give us that process? And 423 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 1: like in a in a concise answer, like is that 424 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 1: possible even to tell us how upper gets used to 425 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: the bottom. So yeah, to two things that happen. Number 426 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,439 Speaker 1: one is you take um, you take that kind of 427 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: that it's almost not quite pancake flat but it's it's 428 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: mostly flat shoe upper leather or or synthetic. It comes 429 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: over to the manufacturing line and they put they the 430 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: booty in this sense when we're when we're using gortex, 431 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 1: it's a it's a full booty. So that actually is 432 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: the first time that starts looking like a lower uh 433 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: you know, like a like a shoe or a boot. 434 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: And that comes into a machine that um that the 435 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: bay Basically it pulls the tongue out and wraps it 436 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 1: around what's called the last. And in any build, any bootbuilding, 437 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: you have to have a shape that you're gonna take 438 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: that flat upper and inform it too. So the last 439 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: is uh, it's the best. It's best described as you 440 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: know those like shoe trees that you put like in 441 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: dress shoes. Um, you know if in they're super lightweight, Well, 442 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 1: the last is stupid heavy. I mean you you pick 443 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: one up and it's like, oh my gosh, and you 444 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: watch these guys in the manufacturing line picking these up 445 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: and then moving them around, and the last pivots right 446 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: in the middle. And so it's a two part um 447 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 1: that has a little bit of pivot to it. And 448 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: you put that last into um into the like the booty, 449 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: and then the upper gets shaped around that and started 450 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: through heat as well as pulling as well as utilizing 451 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,360 Speaker 1: like there are a plastic. A lot of manufacturers use 452 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:55,719 Speaker 1: a bigger plastic on the toe cap and on the 453 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: heel cap. That's why when you're walking on the trail 454 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: and you kick a rock, you know, you don't oftentimes 455 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 1: you don't feel it is because they've got some reinforcement 456 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: in there, and those elements are then put around the 457 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 1: last and it's shaped finally so that it can be 458 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 1: prepared for then putting the lower on the midstle and 459 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 1: the soul. And there's a bunch of different little processes 460 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: that happened where you you know, because if you're taking 461 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: a flat item and wrapping around a round ish item 462 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: being the last or the shape of your foot, then 463 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: you're gonna have little bubbles, or you're gonna have like 464 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 1: folds in the leather, and all those get sanded down 465 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 1: or ground um. If you're putting on like a rand 466 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 1: like a rubber rand um, you'll prep that with a 467 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,199 Speaker 1: little bit of tape and in our in our in 468 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: our processing, this is all done by hand, so they're 469 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: literally taking what looks like a like a paintbrush dipping 470 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 1: in a glue, prepping that area, that zone, and then 471 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: then it goes down the chain and the rand gets 472 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,239 Speaker 1: applied and then it gets put onto the soul mid 473 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:02,360 Speaker 1: sole um. So it's it's that starting process is done 474 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: both by hand as well as by machine, in various 475 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: pulling and shaping uh to finally get in with glue 476 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: to get that too too become you know, a boot 477 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: or looking like a boot in that process differs depending 478 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,439 Speaker 1: on the manufacturing. If you're looking at some of the 479 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: Asian factories that are more less hands on and more 480 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: like your injection molding that mid soul um, that is 481 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: a faster process usually less expensive um in our you know, 482 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: in our process and some of the other Italian manufacturers 483 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: that are still doing it by hand. It's very much 484 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: like the person is taking the last they're slipping that 485 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 1: that upper and the gortex booty around it, almost like 486 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: you're putting a sock on. They're shaping it, pushing it, 487 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: pulling it tight, making sure that it's all like you know, 488 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: aligned properly, and then it goes into that first machine. 489 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 1: And even though it's a machine that the there's two 490 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: little joysticks that the guy and he's got these foot pedals, 491 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 1: and that all dictates the pressure of pulling everything around 492 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: the tongue out tight enough and everything around the heel 493 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: tight en up and snug enough, until finally they see 494 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: it's aligned perfectly, it's pulling at the right pressures, and 495 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: then they basically push a button and it forms it 496 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: around the last and so it becomes, uh the shape 497 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,959 Speaker 1: of a shoe, and it's it's fascinating to watch, and 498 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 1: it's really I mean, I could, I couldn't tire of 499 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: just sitting there and watching, because each model is also 500 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 1: different and requires different alignment and different uh pressures. So 501 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: we're we're in the US and we you know, we 502 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: bring someone into a company that's building and it's like, man, 503 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: we gotta get you up to speed in three, two 504 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: or three months. You better be drilling or making these 505 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: rivets or cutting these boards or whatever. Manufacturing you're doing well. 506 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: In Italy, there's there's many times where I would I'll 507 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: be on the factory. I'm like, oh man, this this 508 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: guy looks like he's doing good. Like, oh, he's he's 509 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: still an apprentice. He's only been here five years and 510 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: we don't let him use like that machine. In that machine, 511 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: he still needs supervision for that. And you're like, what, 512 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: And so the philosophy or the approach to handbuilt boots 513 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: or handcrafted boots is so different than and the skill 514 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: and the amount of detail is more than you might think, 515 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,719 Speaker 1: is what I'm saying. Yeah, it's uh. It brings up 516 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: so much like why it costs so much, why it 517 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: costs so much to to make something like that? And 518 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: then and but then how much like wear and tear 519 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: we put through it? Um. But let's get to that 520 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: a little bit. I think a good that that was 521 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: a good segue. I feel like we we understand how 522 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: boots made now. But this is a good segue into 523 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: the waterproof, waterproof, breathable um conversation. Because you mentioned like 524 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: a gortex booty inside of a boot. I think you 525 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: hear that a lot, ord and I get questions about 526 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: it a lot, like how is it that a boot 527 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: can actually be waterproof? How does that work? How come 528 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: boots aren't waterproof after a season sometimes? So let's go 529 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: ahead and dive into that. Tell me about how that 530 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: gortex booty or other breathable membrane booty how that fits 531 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: into a boot to make it waterproof. Yeah, really really 532 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: good question. And and there just because you have to 533 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: know that just because the um it says gortex or 534 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: or whatever other branded product that is out there, doesn't 535 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: necessarily mean that it's an entire booty. There are a 536 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: lot of manufacturing and a lot of boots and shoes 537 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: that may utilize gortex but only on the upper and 538 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: then down around and it kind of instead of coming 539 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: full circumference, it might just tuck around the bottom and 540 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: basically and just on the edge of the midstle underneath. 541 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: And that's done. It's done. And you might question, and 542 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 1: I question, like, why on earth would to just do 543 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: a full booty UM. The one of the main reasons 544 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: cost and skill. It's harder, it's much harder to ensure 545 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: that the gore booty is remains with full integrity throughout 546 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: the entire manufacturing process. Then if you're, uh, if you're 547 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: only using that that upper piece, so basically the you know, 548 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: the top part of the boot is covered. UM. For example, 549 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: I was in that process where you take the gore booty, 550 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: the upper gets attached to it and then it gets 551 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: shaped around the last The next step is you're putting 552 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: the board last or that that platform that determines flex, 553 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: you're gluing that or attaching that to the bottom of 554 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: the booty. One of the things that I was observing 555 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: last week in the factory was when you if you 556 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: place that, think about where the toe of the foot is, 557 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: and if just under the toe that that board last 558 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: looks like a like the insole of the shoe, so 559 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: it's same shape. And that's being applied to the to 560 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: the to the bottom of the of the gore booty 561 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: to then sit on top of the midstle. So if 562 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: you're if you place that too close to the to 563 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: the nose of the basically the end of the toes, 564 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: then what happens when you pull, when you pull the 565 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: the upper around and you're shaping that so that it 566 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: forms the toe of the boot, it will pinch that 567 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: gore booty. Um, it may pinch that in if if 568 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: the board last is sticking out too far, if it's 569 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: sticking too too far back, you get movement of the 570 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: too much movement in that gore booty and it might 571 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: stretch and again get pinched. So I watched I watched 572 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: Federico the President of of Crispy. We were watched sitting 573 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: there and the young man that was doing that process, 574 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 1: he he I think he had been in there three 575 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: or four years and he was being he was that 576 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: was his loan area, and he literally took a couple 577 00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: of them and said, no, no, this isn't this isn't 578 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: right it And I'm talking like he moved it millimeters 579 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 1: maybe a millimeter or two forward, and he had showed 580 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: like how that could be pinched. So the one thing 581 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: that that that everyone whether regardless of what what material, 582 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: using gore or another membrane, the reality is is those 583 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: membranes are so fragile, like a scratch with your fingerale 584 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: like a like a hard scratched your fingernail could cause 585 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: that gore membrane to be uh compromised. So but now 586 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: the gore membrane is that's when when they're putting it 587 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: into that boot, it's not just that I'm imagining that, 588 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: it's it's with some other layers to make it a 589 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: little bit tougher. It typically will have on the inside, 590 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: like when you when you open up a boot that 591 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: is usual utilizing gore um, you'll see like a little 592 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: felt like a little fabric, you know, layer that the 593 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: gore is attached to. That's why, like on a ski jacket, 594 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 1: you'll see you know, you're actually not you'll see like 595 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,719 Speaker 1: an inner layer that's that's touch and that that is 596 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 1: that's to protect um. So you don't get the friction 597 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: like from the inside of the boot, but on the 598 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: outside of the boot one of the things that you 599 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: can't on the outside of that gore layer you can't. 600 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 1: There's certain regulations when you're using gore, like if you 601 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 1: put because you're like, well, if it's so fragile, then 602 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: just put a whole put a nice solid layer of 603 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: just something that that prohibits any sort of scratch or 604 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: any sort of penetration of a thorn or whatever. There's 605 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: limitations to what you can do because you have not 606 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 1: just the waterproofness that you're trying to protect the foot, 607 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 1: but you also have breathability that you're trying to ensure. 608 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: So if you start to cover that gore membrane with 609 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: a pile of other things, then you start uh inhibiting 610 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 1: the breathability aspect or the water vapor to escape and 611 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: then gore. So we have a we have an area 612 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: of our factory and and any every GORE partner would 613 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: have a part of their factory or or or the 614 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: ability for GORE to come in and say, hey, we 615 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,240 Speaker 1: want to pull and test some of these these products, 616 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: or we want to ensure that within your manufacturing you're 617 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 1: not preventing breathability, but you're also protecting waterproofness and and 618 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 1: taking care to the gore membrane. So the process of 619 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 1: utilizing gore or a waterproof breathable membrane is very it's 620 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,839 Speaker 1: a very delicate process and very has to be done 621 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: with with precision. So that kind of leads into well, 622 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 1: how come my boots got wet after how why did 623 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: my feet get wet after X number of years or 624 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 1: x number of uses um because of the fragility of 625 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: of the gore membrane, there's there, there's going to be 626 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 1: in specifically, if if you're looking at the manufacturing process, 627 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:50,399 Speaker 1: there's bound to be a lemon here and there. There's 628 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: just it's just part of the part of the deal. 629 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: There's an area we have where where pallets of boots 630 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: get pulled off of the manufacturing as they finally finished 631 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: in boxing, and there's a owl that that she takes 632 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,439 Speaker 1: boots and we actually have a little video we took 633 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,919 Speaker 1: and and then this happens in in in most any 634 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: manufacturing that that is going to guarantee waterproofness, They'll take 635 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 1: water they pour into into the boot and then weigh 636 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 1: it and then they put it in a in a 637 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: a machine that spins it. I forget that the terminology 638 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 1: for that that type of machine. I want to say centrifuge, 639 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: but I don't think that's it. But um, and then 640 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: they spend that first certain period of time uh, and 641 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: then they're they're trying to see will the pressure built 642 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:39,360 Speaker 1: up from that spinning push water out out of that membrane. 643 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: With a membrane, maintain it's it's integrity, and there's plenty 644 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: there's times where just in that manufacturing process we get 645 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 1: to that point where randomly testing and and uh and 646 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 1: then boom we find a leaking boot. Um. It's not 647 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: to say that some you know, one slip through the 648 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: crack and the guy gets a boot and first time 649 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: it leaks, which is why everyone that that uses a 650 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 1: membrane like that guarantees for a period of time. UM. 651 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: But you have to remember if you're not using a 652 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 1: full booty over time, as you flex the boot a 653 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: zillion times, and you're hiking to and fro hunting hard 654 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: or hunting soft, there's going to be the ability for 655 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 1: water to really try and penetrate in between the bottom 656 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,240 Speaker 1: of the boot and the mid sole in the seams, 657 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: and eventually, if you're not using a full booty, that's 658 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 1: where some weaknesses can take place. But also eventually, you know, 659 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: if you're using a boot just hard hard heart there 660 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 1: you run the risk depending on the upper material of 661 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 1: something penetrating or something degrading, that that membrane in some 662 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: sort of way that that it causes a leak rocks. 663 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 1: That's what comes to mind. Like a lot of abridging resistance, 664 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 1: like right on the side of your foot, side of 665 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,319 Speaker 1: your foot is a is A is one location. The 666 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: second location that people don't think about um depending on 667 00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 1: the material the upper um you look across like Silea 668 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: and scarp I have a lot of synthetic the boots. 669 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,400 Speaker 1: Um Crispy uses a number of boots. The one that 670 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 1: you know you've you've used Jordan's, the brickstall SF and 671 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 1: the brickstall uses a Basically I would like a soft 672 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: shell type materialist that stretched nylon in the tongue. I know, 673 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,239 Speaker 1: you know, companies like Snais cannot tract cannot tract uses 674 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 1: U straight up leather in their tongue um. Some of 675 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 1: our models are straight up leather. So depending on the 676 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: material you're using down in the tongue area, if if 677 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,719 Speaker 1: you've never taken your boots like legitimately apart, pull the 678 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: laces out and taken a toothbrush and cleaned out that area, 679 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: if you're in particularly like like sheep hunting terrain, or 680 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:45,720 Speaker 1: you're in areas where you're getting a lot of small 681 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 1: stones and grit in down in that tongue as soon 682 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: as that stuff gets because it happens when you're walking 683 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 1: across the glacial stream, like you step in and kind 684 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,839 Speaker 1: of the the all that the fine you know, little 685 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: rocks they kind of surf us up around your foot 686 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,560 Speaker 1: and and that settles down in in in that crease. 687 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: Or if you're side hilling a lot in a lot 688 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,840 Speaker 1: of like shale, you'll get little stones in there, and 689 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 1: if not cleaned out over time, it basically becomes sandpaper 690 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: and it's just rubbing and rubbing and rubbing and rubbing 691 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 1: down in that groove. You may not feel it because 692 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,360 Speaker 1: it's it's small enough. But eventually depending on the material, 693 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 1: like the kinnet trick um. Uh, their their tongue is 694 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,760 Speaker 1: full leather. The guide, uh, you know the Guide Nevada 695 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 1: from Crispy the Snais boot. They have a couple that 696 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 1: use the full leather. That's not going to get broken down. 697 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,800 Speaker 1: But you start using a synthetic tongue, um that's thinner 698 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 1: and that gore membrane is is basically almost to the 699 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: surface over time. That's that's a weakness that's gonna gonna indicate, 700 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 1: it's gonna break down if you're not cleaning that area 701 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,920 Speaker 1: out on the regular. Could you give like a thirty 702 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:56,920 Speaker 1: second synthetic versus leather, Yeah? The primary Well for me, 703 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 1: I know, thirty seconds is impossible. I don't think anybody 704 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 1: could do that. Uh. Primary the rationale for synthetic over 705 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: leather is is weight savings and uh typically drying out 706 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,839 Speaker 1: faster or repelling water, having the ability to repel water, 707 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:21,800 Speaker 1: being hydrophobic. Hydrophobic leather inherently will absorb water. It's just 708 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:26,280 Speaker 1: it's just what happens. That's why we treat leather boots. 709 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:32,759 Speaker 1: But leather will will prevent penetration of things. Synthetic will 710 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 1: typically breathe better, Leather may not. So there's pros and cons. 711 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,960 Speaker 1: But I would say leather is a is a weight savings, 712 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:48,319 Speaker 1: sometimes a cost savings and a breathability enhancement over a leather. Um. 713 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 1: But leathers it's it's old, reliable. I I was shocked, 714 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,479 Speaker 1: is my thirty seconds U because I'm gonna switch topics 715 00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: a little bit. I was shocked at know I'm here 716 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,359 Speaker 1: in Utah and I hunt in Utah, and and it's 717 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 1: I It's I love I Actually I don't mind running. 718 00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 1: I I mean, in some places, I hate running into people, 719 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:10,800 Speaker 1: but I actually love running into people in the mountains 720 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,719 Speaker 1: because I'm always studying, like what gear they're using, and 721 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,319 Speaker 1: I invariably look at boots. I mean, I'll yeah, it's 722 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,879 Speaker 1: my kids, like dad, stop looking at what shoes people 723 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 1: are wearing. Um, but we uh. When I here in Utah, 724 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 1: I'll see, you know, I'll see guys wearing all sorts 725 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: of stuff from trailer from Hoka to trailer Solomon, trail 726 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,840 Speaker 1: runners to full on like you know, ten inch stiff 727 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 1: boots can attract you know, says or Crispi's um and 728 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,839 Speaker 1: it's interesting to see what people want to what they'll 729 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: get away with right in various weather, or if you're 730 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 1: just day hunting kind of in and out real quick, 731 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 1: you'll go maybe the lighterweight shoe. I went into Wyoming 732 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 1: this year in on a on an archery l hunt, 733 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 1: and it was horseback and we ran in unfortunately, ran 734 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 1: into piles of dudes. Um, I guess that's like everywhere 735 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:05,520 Speaker 1: anymore on general tag, but um, every single other thing. 736 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: What shocked me is every single person had full leather boots. 737 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,359 Speaker 1: Everyone and we probably I probably saw twenty five guys 738 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: from forest, from a four service guy that I bumped into, 739 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:21,839 Speaker 1: to an outfitter, to clients to just Joe, regular out 740 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,719 Speaker 1: hunting like me, local, non local. Every single person had 741 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 1: a full leather boot and it it shocked me. But 742 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,319 Speaker 1: then at the same time, I thought, Man, I'm I'm 743 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:36,359 Speaker 1: twelve miles in on horseback in rugged elk country. Um, 744 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,640 Speaker 1: why wouldn't I be in a full leather boot because 745 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,719 Speaker 1: I know that that's reliable. I mean, I know exactly 746 00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:45,719 Speaker 1: what I'm gonna get and it's tough as nails. There's 747 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 1: fewer seams, so it's an interesting It was interesting to 748 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:56,080 Speaker 1: me to see that, uh, that that difference between zones 749 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: of hunting and the type of boot that people were 750 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,759 Speaker 1: relying upon. And in most those guys are in there 751 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:02,440 Speaker 1: for you know, a week at a time kind of 752 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,759 Speaker 1: thing versus kind of popping and pop it out on 753 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:16,919 Speaker 1: a day hunt. Switching gears a little bit going back 754 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:22,120 Speaker 1: to that membrane, that gortex membrane. Does that thing breathe like? 755 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,960 Speaker 1: Is that what determines breatheability? I know there's some other 756 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,600 Speaker 1: factors around it, but and like, can you give an 757 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:32,319 Speaker 1: overview of like a boot breathing, Like what does it mean? 758 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 1: You have to come to like what does what does 759 00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,320 Speaker 1: the breatheability mean? And it's it's it varies based on 760 00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,279 Speaker 1: each person whatever they desire for it. So when you 761 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:46,160 Speaker 1: say breatheability, some people might think like, man, my, my, my, 762 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,400 Speaker 1: my sweatshirt breathe like I can put my mouth up 763 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 1: to it and blow through it and feel the wind, yeah, 764 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,399 Speaker 1: you know, or my my performance layers. When you get 765 00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:01,160 Speaker 1: into footwear, it breathes in that water vapor is transferring 766 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,359 Speaker 1: through the membrane and dispelling or or moving away from 767 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:09,360 Speaker 1: the from that membrane, whether it be through synthetic material 768 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,600 Speaker 1: or through leather material. Um. But there is there's a 769 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: capacity that which in the same thing with with rain gear, 770 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 1: like you look at waterproof breathable you know, rain gear. 771 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,680 Speaker 1: At some point there's a there's a there's a limit capacity. 772 00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: It's all it's all u physics of of movement of 773 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,880 Speaker 1: water vapor through a barrier or how much pressure. You 774 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 1: know that also di dictates like how much pressure is 775 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,359 Speaker 1: behind that movement, or is the boot completely filled up, 776 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,320 Speaker 1: how much water is being expelled by the by the 777 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,959 Speaker 1: by the human foot. Um. So there becomes a point 778 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,520 Speaker 1: at which people might say, users will say this boot 779 00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:49,920 Speaker 1: doesn't breathe for crap, or or the sock I'm using 780 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,959 Speaker 1: might dictate some of that moisture transfer not through the boot, 781 00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,279 Speaker 1: but up the up the sock, up the shaft of 782 00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,840 Speaker 1: the leg in a way, you know, through that material. 783 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:04,560 Speaker 1: So um, it's kind of a relative term breatheability. But indeed, 784 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,000 Speaker 1: both through scientific testing of our of the gore membrane 785 00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 1: as well as other membranes, they do breathe, but to 786 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,880 Speaker 1: to a to a degree. If you've got insulation on 787 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 1: the outside of that gore membrane, between that and the 788 00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,920 Speaker 1: outer of the boot. Again, it's going to affect breatheability 789 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,120 Speaker 1: of course, because there's more passage way for the moisture 790 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:30,279 Speaker 1: to leave the boot itself. Um. But Yeah, from a 791 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,880 Speaker 1: from a simply a science and testing standpoint, absolutely, the 792 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:38,479 Speaker 1: gore membrane does breathe. Um. The other challenges that Jordan, 793 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:40,879 Speaker 1: your foot and the honest your foot and my foot 794 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:45,920 Speaker 1: all breathe and and biologically behave differently, um, And so 795 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:50,200 Speaker 1: our our our conclusions might be completely different based on 796 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:54,319 Speaker 1: is that boot or is that foot? Is that shoe breathable? Yeah? 797 00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 1: From a waterproofing standpoint, like, how much would you say, 798 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,360 Speaker 1: a like if you could break it down percentage wise, 799 00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,160 Speaker 1: and you're taking a boot that does have a membrane 800 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,480 Speaker 1: of sorts, and it obviously has then the outer fabric 801 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:11,759 Speaker 1: and it problem guessing it might have a durable water 802 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,560 Speaker 1: repellent finished on the outside as well, or if it's 803 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 1: a leather boot then you might have you know, nick wacks, 804 00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,880 Speaker 1: whatever you've applied to it. How much is it the 805 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,560 Speaker 1: outer material of the boot and what's applied to the 806 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:29,960 Speaker 1: actual outside that is causing the water proofness versus the 807 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:35,520 Speaker 1: membrane on the inside. Real good question. The the membrane 808 00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:39,480 Speaker 1: itself is ultimately really like if you're talking responsibility, Uh 809 00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:45,000 Speaker 1: you know who's who done it? Who's responsible? Uh, it's it. 810 00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:49,040 Speaker 1: The membrane is ultimately responsible for your foot to stay dry. Um, 811 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:54,160 Speaker 1: the outer material and what it's treated with, synthetic being 812 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,320 Speaker 1: treated with like a spray or some sort of you know, 813 00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,439 Speaker 1: some sort of d w R durable water repell and see, 814 00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,840 Speaker 1: Um those are temporary of course, is you guys know 815 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,640 Speaker 1: and mail listeners might know that that's a temporary treatment. 816 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,839 Speaker 1: Even on the cream that you put on a leather, 817 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,440 Speaker 1: whether it be nick wax or whatever, Uh bees wax 818 00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,399 Speaker 1: that I know that the like condatruct uses a bees 819 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,760 Speaker 1: wax based We use a synthetic based cream nick wax 820 00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:22,320 Speaker 1: as a water based cream. Um, all of those creams 821 00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,720 Speaker 1: have a certain life to them, and and and those 822 00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:31,040 Speaker 1: those are responsible more for keeping that everything from the 823 00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,560 Speaker 1: from the gore membrane out. We're talking the gore membrane, 824 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,720 Speaker 1: the insulation layer, and then the leather or the synthetic 825 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,759 Speaker 1: typically a topical applied element is responsible for keeping that 826 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 1: part dry, whereas the gore membrane itself is responsible for 827 00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,160 Speaker 1: keeping the foot dry. UM. But they do work in tandem. 828 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,080 Speaker 1: There's no doubt that that. You know, if you're walking 829 00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:54,640 Speaker 1: through a piot, you know, just a super heavy dew 830 00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:57,480 Speaker 1: mourning as you're cutting through a me meadow to head 831 00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,239 Speaker 1: up above timberline, you're hunting deer in Colorado or or 832 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:04,920 Speaker 1: elk if you're if you're outer material the leather or 833 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,640 Speaker 1: the synthetic is just soaking. Immediately soaking in water, it's 834 00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,480 Speaker 1: going to create more pressure against the gore membrane. And 835 00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:16,200 Speaker 1: so as you become water soaked and you're you're when 836 00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,480 Speaker 1: you flex, you're creating pressure points where waters is getting 837 00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,840 Speaker 1: a higher pressure. So as you flex the boot or 838 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,760 Speaker 1: as you exercise, you know, movement in that boot under 839 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,200 Speaker 1: a lot of exterior water, there's going to be more 840 00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:34,320 Speaker 1: pressure on that membrane for water, you know, the water 841 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,319 Speaker 1: repellency to be compromised or basically water to push through 842 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,680 Speaker 1: that um. And so the outer certainly works. Those outer 843 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:46,560 Speaker 1: applications help to work in tandem with the with the 844 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:54,440 Speaker 1: membrane inside. There's a lot there. Sorry, there's a lot there. All. 845 00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:59,520 Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah, it's it's it's pretty wild. And 846 00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,680 Speaker 1: I mean when you've talked to hundreds and hundreds and 847 00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:08,200 Speaker 1: probably thousands of people about boots. If you feel like 848 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,120 Speaker 1: you heard it all. Um. You know, from the first 849 00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,640 Speaker 1: few years uh with Crispy as a distributor, we were 850 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,239 Speaker 1: answering every single phone call. And now we've got you know, 851 00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,080 Speaker 1: small team, and we're still But you go to shows 852 00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,920 Speaker 1: and you hear everything, you see everything, it's it. It 853 00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,360 Speaker 1: boggles Crispy Crispy Italy, and I would I would, I 854 00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:31,640 Speaker 1: would probably say other manufacturers are kind of surprised, or 855 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:33,879 Speaker 1: you know, especially if they come from a European non 856 00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,160 Speaker 1: hunting focused background. If you look at like Cande Track 857 00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:41,759 Speaker 1: or Snais, those were built by hunters four hunters, and 858 00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:46,200 Speaker 1: hunting is that is the market. You look at Crispy, 859 00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,360 Speaker 1: hunting is our primary market, and we do some outdoor. 860 00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,600 Speaker 1: You look at Scarpa though, or han Wag or Slewa 861 00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:57,280 Speaker 1: uh loa, those those brands did not start as hunting 862 00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,840 Speaker 1: companies and so there you they're they're summer use is 863 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:06,400 Speaker 1: outdoor hikers and trekkers and climbers and scramblers and skiers 864 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,520 Speaker 1: and etcetera, etcetera. But when you when you when you 865 00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:11,680 Speaker 1: look at like the abuse that and be honest. You 866 00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,440 Speaker 1: mentioned this earlier. You look at the abuse that hunters 867 00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,719 Speaker 1: put on boots compared to the other user groups, it's 868 00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:22,759 Speaker 1: astounding and and crispy, I know, looks at when we've talked, 869 00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:24,920 Speaker 1: when we like we'll send some boots over there, like, 870 00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,760 Speaker 1: I can't believe this has only been used for thirteen 871 00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:33,160 Speaker 1: days on a single hunt and just shredded. Um. And 872 00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:35,640 Speaker 1: so it's because we're all you know, it's not because 873 00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,080 Speaker 1: we're so hardcore and we're just you know, we're just 874 00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:40,759 Speaker 1: so tough, because there's plenty of like, you know, hard 875 00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,600 Speaker 1: men in the climbing and other worlds. But the where 876 00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:45,680 Speaker 1: we use our our boots and shoes and how we 877 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:49,120 Speaker 1: rely on them, um process the envelope, I think. And 878 00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:52,880 Speaker 1: that's that's what's cool about working so close to the factory. 879 00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,279 Speaker 1: As we start seeing you know, and and and and 880 00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:59,080 Speaker 1: other manufacturers that are hunting specific start to see that 881 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:02,680 Speaker 1: serious abuse use, and they make changes based on the 882 00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:07,640 Speaker 1: things that are happening and testing different materials and finding weaknesses, 883 00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:10,439 Speaker 1: and so unfortunately, sometimes customers on the on the front 884 00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:14,040 Speaker 1: end get you know, they might use in an extreme 885 00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:19,520 Speaker 1: situation or what or an undesigned situation and find weaknesses 886 00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:23,000 Speaker 1: and it's like it's not it's not a it's a bummer, 887 00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,920 Speaker 1: but it's more enlightening for a boot manufacturer to say, 888 00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:29,440 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this failed. No way this failed. I did, 889 00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,080 Speaker 1: like you know, I use a certain type of thread 890 00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,359 Speaker 1: to stitch that there's no way that was going to fail. 891 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,600 Speaker 1: And then Jordan takes it to Alaska just destroys it, 892 00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:41,719 Speaker 1: and we're like, dang, Jordan's sorry about that, but thank you. Um, 893 00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,720 Speaker 1: that's a fun that's a fun you know, So that anyway, 894 00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:46,920 Speaker 1: I don't know where I was going with that, but 895 00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,640 Speaker 1: it's a it's an interesting observation that I know that 896 00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:53,360 Speaker 1: we have experienced, and I would suspect that other brands, 897 00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:58,520 Speaker 1: primarily the Italian brands or the European brands, are starting 898 00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:04,720 Speaker 1: to experience. And because Hunters are are typically a heavier user, 899 00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,560 Speaker 1: not in weight, but just in in the extremes that 900 00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:09,839 Speaker 1: we we where we go with boots, because we don't 901 00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,480 Speaker 1: we don't walk by trails, we just walk by mountains. 902 00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:17,280 Speaker 1: Um yeah, um, I mean, we could talk about this forever, 903 00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,680 Speaker 1: but as we come up on our time, is there like, oh, 904 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,719 Speaker 1: something that we can give our listeners is like a 905 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,200 Speaker 1: takeaway of if you're going to go into Shields or 906 00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:31,200 Speaker 1: wherever and you're gonna look at a boot for a 907 00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:35,879 Speaker 1: specific hunt, what would you tell listeners looking for a boot? Yeah, 908 00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,080 Speaker 1: two things. The first thing I would say is is 909 00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:42,200 Speaker 1: take what whatever the guy at the store, or your 910 00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:46,479 Speaker 1: buddy or your read on rock slide or you saw 911 00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,960 Speaker 1: on YouTube, take that with a grain of salt, because, 912 00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:55,440 Speaker 1: like I mentioned before, biologically all of us are different. Um. 913 00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,800 Speaker 1: We have our intricacy is as well as our feet 914 00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,840 Speaker 1: are all designed different. And so just because a boot 915 00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,360 Speaker 1: is like the cats meow for your buddy or some 916 00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:07,719 Speaker 1: guy on YouTube said that, or some review you read, 917 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,040 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be the same result 918 00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:13,600 Speaker 1: for you. So as you start to look at the 919 00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:19,080 Speaker 1: various manufacturers and the various designed purposes of each boot, UM, 920 00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:23,480 Speaker 1: narrow down your selection based on what you feel. Um. 921 00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:25,680 Speaker 1: And I know that's impossible for some people because they 922 00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:27,680 Speaker 1: live in Timbuctoo and they just have to mail order, 923 00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:30,760 Speaker 1: call in or or you know, hop on a website 924 00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,200 Speaker 1: and buy some. So it's it's harder narrow that down. 925 00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,680 Speaker 1: And so doing your homework. I don't think you can 926 00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:40,440 Speaker 1: do enough homework on footwear and understand that. You know, 927 00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,200 Speaker 1: it's sometimes you may swing and you think you hit 928 00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:45,680 Speaker 1: it over the fence and the left fielder jumps over 929 00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:47,920 Speaker 1: the fence and snatches that and you're out and and 930 00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:49,920 Speaker 1: the boot you thought was going to be the home 931 00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,480 Speaker 1: run is not is not the home run, and it 932 00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:57,560 Speaker 1: doesn't work. And and that's it's that's that's a tough 933 00:53:57,680 --> 00:53:59,960 Speaker 1: lump to swallow when it boots three, four or five 934 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:04,040 Speaker 1: of her blox um. But the second piece, so so anyway, 935 00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:08,040 Speaker 1: take take all that information as as processed information that 936 00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,040 Speaker 1: you're gathering, not necessarily as the gospel truth, but the 937 00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:14,520 Speaker 1: second pieces, start to identify. Look at look closely some 938 00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,960 Speaker 1: of the things we've talked about, the materials in the 939 00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,840 Speaker 1: upper the mid soul thickness, the tread depth, the type 940 00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:26,439 Speaker 1: of products, whether it be vibrum, gore, a synthetic versus leather. 941 00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:29,480 Speaker 1: Look at those things and start to like match those 942 00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:32,480 Speaker 1: what is the what's the use of each of those materials, 943 00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,000 Speaker 1: what's the purpose of each of those materials, and what 944 00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,440 Speaker 1: is the what is the type of terrain or the 945 00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,640 Speaker 1: type of use that I'm going to be utilizing them, 946 00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:43,680 Speaker 1: And start to consider that rather than just slip your 947 00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,879 Speaker 1: foot in and like that feels good, I'll take them. 948 00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,960 Speaker 1: Uh and and so as you start to educate yourself 949 00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:52,800 Speaker 1: a little bit on some of the things we've talked about, 950 00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:55,919 Speaker 1: these different materials that are put into the boot, you'll 951 00:54:55,920 --> 00:55:00,960 Speaker 1: start to understand, Okay, leather has this performance, synthetic, this performance, Well, 952 00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,960 Speaker 1: what am I really looking for? And I've I've had 953 00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:05,960 Speaker 1: I've had some of those kind of conversations with with 954 00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:09,040 Speaker 1: guys and they're like, man, my buddy loves this boot 955 00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:12,279 Speaker 1: over here, but for some reason, I wanted to love 956 00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,080 Speaker 1: that boot so hard, but this one over here is 957 00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:17,920 Speaker 1: is that's the one that's my cindere Elli slipper that 958 00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:20,440 Speaker 1: I've been looking for and I don't know why, but 959 00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:22,839 Speaker 1: and it's it's so much lighter or it's a softer 960 00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:25,000 Speaker 1: flex than my buddy. And we all were hunt in 961 00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:28,320 Speaker 1: the same terrain, and just get over the fact that 962 00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:32,640 Speaker 1: that you might be in a softer flex, less burly 963 00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:35,000 Speaker 1: of a boot and cover the same terrain as your 964 00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:39,480 Speaker 1: buddy who's in something super thick. But start to analyze 965 00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:42,799 Speaker 1: like what goes into each boot as you really narrow 966 00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:45,839 Speaker 1: down your selection and then make sure that you get 967 00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,400 Speaker 1: your foot in it, um, and walk around, whether it 968 00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,960 Speaker 1: be in that store. You know, if you've got to 969 00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:53,160 Speaker 1: if you've got to buy seven boots on the internet 970 00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:57,200 Speaker 1: and and return all seven, just know that that process 971 00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,560 Speaker 1: is worth the pain and and and tell your wife 972 00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:02,399 Speaker 1: you're gonna carry a little balance on the credit card 973 00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:06,319 Speaker 1: if that's what it takes, um, Because ultimately, nothing would 974 00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:09,760 Speaker 1: destroy a hunt more than than crappy footwear or footwear 975 00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:15,040 Speaker 1: that doesn't match your your your performance need. It's really 976 00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:18,600 Speaker 1: it's super subjective. Um. I like to choose boots based 977 00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:25,000 Speaker 1: on color schemes sometimes just kidding, go sor I didn't. 978 00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,000 Speaker 1: You've never struck me as that kind of personality Jordan's 979 00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,239 Speaker 1: but I thought we were turning over a new leaf 980 00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:33,319 Speaker 1: there when you were talking about going to the back 981 00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:35,440 Speaker 1: country and everybody was wearing leather boots. I was like, 982 00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,120 Speaker 1: I would be the one you'd see with orange boots. 983 00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:42,120 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I used to have a pair of those 984 00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:45,880 Speaker 1: bright blue last Sportiva. I think they were called glaciers, 985 00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:49,600 Speaker 1: remember those? And uh yeah, I got a lot of 986 00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:53,600 Speaker 1: crap for having blue boots. You've got some looks, yeah, Candle, 987 00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:57,000 Speaker 1: question for you, if let's say it's the same boot 988 00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:00,479 Speaker 1: from from your manufacturer, because you'll be answered this question 989 00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:03,160 Speaker 1: for crispy. But if it's the same boot and it's 990 00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:06,480 Speaker 1: like in a in a smaller size like say you know, seven, 991 00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,440 Speaker 1: eight nine, where the average person is gonna let's say, 992 00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,360 Speaker 1: way a hundred forty und fifty pounds in that boot 993 00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,600 Speaker 1: versus that same boot in a size twelve where that 994 00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:20,000 Speaker 1: average person might weigh closer to one nine or two hundred, 995 00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:25,040 Speaker 1: does the flex change or, like I would imagine, it 996 00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:28,560 Speaker 1: could might get stiffer to accommodate for the heavier person. 997 00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:31,440 Speaker 1: Or is that flex gonna feel the same if you 998 00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:34,600 Speaker 1: had a flex rating machine. Is it going to feel 999 00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:37,200 Speaker 1: the same in that size eight or nine as it 1000 00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:41,160 Speaker 1: does in the twelve? Dude, that might be I m 1001 00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:42,880 Speaker 1: gonna have to give you an award because that might 1002 00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:45,400 Speaker 1: be the coolest question I've ever been asked about footwear. 1003 00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:50,640 Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. That is a super interesting question. Well, 1004 00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:52,720 Speaker 1: you know how like you're saying, you run into people 1005 00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:54,880 Speaker 1: and you're like, man, you're running around the mountains and 1006 00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:57,960 Speaker 1: a pair of trail runners. I've tried it because because 1007 00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:01,600 Speaker 1: I listen, I can tell everybody out there was certainly 1008 00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:05,600 Speaker 1: certainty that you can sneak up to an elk way 1009 00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:07,600 Speaker 1: easier in a pair of trail runners that you can 1010 00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,280 Speaker 1: in a pair of stiff mountain boots. It's just it's 1011 00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:13,640 Speaker 1: just like a fact that that could. The cushion just 1012 00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,360 Speaker 1: soaks up stuff underneath your feet and you're just like 1013 00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:19,360 Speaker 1: a little you know, ghost ninja just slipping through the timber. 1014 00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:24,880 Speaker 1: But my my weight just puts way too much torque 1015 00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:28,360 Speaker 1: I guess onto my feet and my ankles that halfway 1016 00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:31,120 Speaker 1: through the day I can't take a trail runner, so 1017 00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:33,800 Speaker 1: I need a little bit so Anyways, but back to 1018 00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,280 Speaker 1: the question, like, I think that's some people can that 1019 00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:39,600 Speaker 1: are lighter weight can get away with a lighter, more 1020 00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:43,720 Speaker 1: flexible boot because their weight isn't asking so much of 1021 00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:45,840 Speaker 1: the boot where I might need a little more support. 1022 00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:51,640 Speaker 1: So does the manufacturer accommodate for that, um, The answer 1023 00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:56,040 Speaker 1: is no. I think we use the same materials through 1024 00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:59,040 Speaker 1: it from size to size, so the same amount, I mean, 1025 00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:00,840 Speaker 1: the same exact man heterials are going to be used 1026 00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:05,000 Speaker 1: in an eight versus in a twelve. But by by 1027 00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:10,920 Speaker 1: mirror fact that you have less material or or suppose rationally, 1028 00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:13,800 Speaker 1: you know, ratio you know, the ratio of material to 1029 00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:16,960 Speaker 1: to size is going to be equal. I would say 1030 00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:20,280 Speaker 1: that the flex if you could, if you could test it, 1031 00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:23,560 Speaker 1: which I'll be I'm super intrigued. Actually, if you could 1032 00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:26,520 Speaker 1: test the flex of a twelve versus a flex of 1033 00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:29,919 Speaker 1: the eight and way that testing machine, if you could 1034 00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:34,560 Speaker 1: based on two D versus one forty, my guess is 1035 00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:35,880 Speaker 1: and I don't know the answer, I don't know the 1036 00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,120 Speaker 1: right answer, But my guess is that that that the 1037 00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:42,240 Speaker 1: the eight might feel a little stiffer because of less 1038 00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:45,480 Speaker 1: um less force or you know, you're talking on a 1039 00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:47,840 Speaker 1: candle lever, you have only a hundred forty pounds versus 1040 00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:52,040 Speaker 1: a hundred two hundred pounds. I would suspect that there's 1041 00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:54,120 Speaker 1: probably going to be a little bit more stiff flex 1042 00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,720 Speaker 1: on that smaller one. That and I'd love to know 1043 00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:00,200 Speaker 1: if if there's a physicist out there or someone that's 1044 01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:03,640 Speaker 1: a mechanic, you know, if into physics and mechanics. I'd 1045 01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:08,040 Speaker 1: love to have someone shed some light on that particular thought. 1046 01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:11,360 Speaker 1: But from a standpoint the second part you just used 1047 01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,320 Speaker 1: as from a standpoint of a bigger guy. I mean, 1048 01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:18,880 Speaker 1: I'm two, I'm four, I'm a tall guy. Um, I 1049 01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:21,919 Speaker 1: feel like I need I know that I get better 1050 01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,920 Speaker 1: performance out of just I'm talking feel good out of 1051 01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:28,400 Speaker 1: a thicker mid soul Apollo Earth and mid soule versus 1052 01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:30,680 Speaker 1: out of a thin trail running type soul. And I 1053 01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:33,200 Speaker 1: feel it two or three days later. And I know 1054 01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:36,200 Speaker 1: that on a multi day hunt, I don't recover as 1055 01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:40,280 Speaker 1: as quickly after you know, big day exertions. Whereas I 1056 01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:43,000 Speaker 1: think guys that are running that are lighter weight, it 1057 01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,360 Speaker 1: may not impact them as much. Um if they're not 1058 01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:49,439 Speaker 1: you know, with with the same or maybe even going 1059 01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:54,680 Speaker 1: a softer midsul material. But man, that is you've You've 1060 01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:57,720 Speaker 1: ignited an interest in me a thought process that I'm 1061 01:00:57,760 --> 01:00:59,760 Speaker 1: sure I'm not going to sleep at night for a 1062 01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:02,800 Speaker 1: aisle on this one. This is cool. Well, if you're 1063 01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:04,880 Speaker 1: out there listening and you have a lead or an 1064 01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:09,160 Speaker 1: answer for us, please right into UH gear talk at 1065 01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:13,000 Speaker 1: the meat Eater dot com and UH and you know, 1066 01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:15,000 Speaker 1: tell us what you know what We'll reach out to you. 1067 01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:21,919 Speaker 1: One more like about the longevity, Like, let's let's talk 1068 01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:25,400 Speaker 1: about that a little bit about what people can expect 1069 01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:30,440 Speaker 1: even out of there, you know, three or four boots, um, 1070 01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:32,640 Speaker 1: because I think a lot. A lot of people are 1071 01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:35,960 Speaker 1: mystified that they could wear through a pair of boots 1072 01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:39,520 Speaker 1: in a season. Um, when they've spent that much money. 1073 01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:45,880 Speaker 1: You you have two or potentially three categories of users. UM, 1074 01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:49,680 Speaker 1: you've got the super user, this is your outfitter or 1075 01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:52,720 Speaker 1: or people like yourselves that that have the opportunity to 1076 01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:58,479 Speaker 1: hunt basically from mid August to December hard multiple hunts 1077 01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:04,160 Speaker 1: that those people typically recognize UM, and especially guides and 1078 01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:07,320 Speaker 1: outfitters because those those people look at it, it's just 1079 01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:10,520 Speaker 1: part of the work. It's part of my uniform, if 1080 01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:14,480 Speaker 1: you will. And so those people recognize, hey, man, I'm 1081 01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:18,200 Speaker 1: using these things day end doubt it's paying. My investment 1082 01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:20,680 Speaker 1: is repaid to me on a daily basis, So my 1083 01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:23,600 Speaker 1: cost per use ends up being I love to look 1084 01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:25,680 Speaker 1: at cost per use on on all my gear, from 1085 01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:27,800 Speaker 1: my ski gear to my hunting gear. So cost per 1086 01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:31,200 Speaker 1: use gets down to we're talking like twenty cents, thirty 1087 01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:34,800 Speaker 1: cents per use, fifty cents maybe a you know, maybe 1088 01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,480 Speaker 1: on a pair of boots. Maybe the guys getting down 1089 01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:40,720 Speaker 1: to a dollar, you know, a dollar and a half 1090 01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:43,800 Speaker 1: per use, and they have to recognize, like would I 1091 01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:47,320 Speaker 1: pay a dollar and a half for that day to 1092 01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:49,720 Speaker 1: have that kind of comfort my foot and knowing that 1093 01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:52,240 Speaker 1: it's going to I'm going to retire these at some point. 1094 01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:55,800 Speaker 1: Then you have your second group of people that I'm 1095 01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:58,200 Speaker 1: skipping one, that is they're going to buy a boot 1096 01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:00,520 Speaker 1: and they're going on one hunt a year, maybe two 1097 01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:03,360 Speaker 1: um and then and they're gonna they might hunt hard, 1098 01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:05,200 Speaker 1: they might hunt soft, but they know that that boot 1099 01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:08,560 Speaker 1: they're expecting that boot to last them six to eight 1100 01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:11,480 Speaker 1: to ten years. And the majority of those boots will 1101 01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:14,640 Speaker 1: last six to eight to ten years. And it's there's 1102 01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:17,680 Speaker 1: a partnership. I mean, people reckon after recognize that if 1103 01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:20,680 Speaker 1: you're gonna buy something like that in investment, there's a 1104 01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:22,880 Speaker 1: partnership that that needs to happen. That means, do you 1105 01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:24,760 Speaker 1: take care of your boot and your boot take takes 1106 01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:27,680 Speaker 1: care of you. Um. And if it's a one sided relationship, 1107 01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:30,880 Speaker 1: then usually those relationships go bad. Uh, not just in 1108 01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:33,760 Speaker 1: footwear but in life. But the so you gotta change 1109 01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:36,960 Speaker 1: your oil and your truck too. By the way, Yeah, dude, 1110 01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:39,600 Speaker 1: if that light comes on or that up there on 1111 01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:43,080 Speaker 1: the left, the jiffy loop thing says like miles ago, 1112 01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:46,760 Speaker 1: then then you need a citation written, um, so, but 1113 01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:50,920 Speaker 1: the so then the user. So that group typically is 1114 01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:55,240 Speaker 1: satisfied with their purchase. The super heavy user group is 1115 01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:58,640 Speaker 1: satisfied with the longevity of the boot. Typically it's the 1116 01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:00,960 Speaker 1: it's the group in the middle of guys like probably 1117 01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:04,200 Speaker 1: like me, you know, I hunt four or five hunts 1118 01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:06,840 Speaker 1: a year, maybe the guys maybe less than. You know, 1119 01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:11,120 Speaker 1: guys a hunt weekends, you know, throughout most of the season, 1120 01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:13,880 Speaker 1: and they and they invest in the boot and they're 1121 01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:16,200 Speaker 1: expecting like I don't hunt, you know, I'm not a 1122 01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:20,160 Speaker 1: superdo so they're expecting the boot to last eight to 1123 01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:23,760 Speaker 1: ten years as well. But the reality is is depending 1124 01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:28,920 Speaker 1: upon use, terrain, um, how well you're taking care of 1125 01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:31,960 Speaker 1: the boot after after each use or or kind of 1126 01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,920 Speaker 1: attending to you know, it's its needs. Um, that boot 1127 01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:39,480 Speaker 1: probably is gonna last four or five years on the 1128 01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:41,720 Speaker 1: high on. Maybe it's six years on the high end, 1129 01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:45,439 Speaker 1: two years on the low end. UM. And that's where 1130 01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:47,640 Speaker 1: you get guys that will say, many there's a bit 1131 01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:49,960 Speaker 1: of a rub, and there has to be. I'm from 1132 01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:55,160 Speaker 1: a manufacturing standpoint, we absolutely look at like we'll look 1133 01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:59,800 Speaker 1: at each case typically and most manufacturers do the same. Man, Yeah, 1134 01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:02,360 Speaker 1: that shouldn't have come apart at that in that location, 1135 01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:05,280 Speaker 1: or that boot that that soul shouldn't have separated at 1136 01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:07,840 Speaker 1: that location. But then sometimes when you flip it over 1137 01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:09,240 Speaker 1: and you look at the bottom bood, you're like, oh 1138 01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:12,400 Speaker 1: my gosh, dude, these are like moccasins. There's zero tread left. 1139 01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:15,840 Speaker 1: You've destroyed these things, and they're like, oh, I just hunt. 1140 01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:17,280 Speaker 1: You know, every once in a while you're like, no, 1141 01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:19,280 Speaker 1: you don't. Either that are using them on your day 1142 01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:21,840 Speaker 1: job as a plumber or as a concrete got layer, 1143 01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:23,880 Speaker 1: and you're on concrete all day long with that soft 1144 01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:29,040 Speaker 1: vibram soul. So there the longevity question is if I 1145 01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:30,600 Speaker 1: was if I was to say, I'm I'm gonna buy 1146 01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:32,360 Speaker 1: a pair of boots, and I'm a I'm a kind 1147 01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:35,200 Speaker 1: of a weekend with the occasional one week in Wyoming 1148 01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:38,560 Speaker 1: Hunt coming out from from Missouri to Hunt Hunt West, 1149 01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:40,560 Speaker 1: and then I'm I'm using it here and there, and 1150 01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:42,520 Speaker 1: I might be using on you know, setting truck cameras. 1151 01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:45,959 Speaker 1: I think with any good high end boot, you should 1152 01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:51,080 Speaker 1: anticipate anywhere from that three to six year UM window 1153 01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:54,200 Speaker 1: and potentially longer depending on how you know where you 1154 01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:56,800 Speaker 1: just store it and other things like that, and sometimes 1155 01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:59,520 Speaker 1: quite frankly, it's just like cars or electronics, you do 1156 01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:03,840 Speaker 1: get a and you just and and hopefully whatever manufacturer 1157 01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:07,880 Speaker 1: you're working with would recognize, like, hey, that that's that's 1158 01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:10,400 Speaker 1: an anomaly, and let's take care of you in that situation. 1159 01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:13,240 Speaker 1: And that's where some of that angst exists, both the 1160 01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,600 Speaker 1: people against our brand as well as other brands. But that, uh, 1161 01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:18,840 Speaker 1: that's the user group that I see that has the 1162 01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:22,280 Speaker 1: most challenge with the longevity question. Um, I don't know 1163 01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:24,880 Speaker 1: if that answer that be honest or gave you some perspective. 1164 01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:29,160 Speaker 1: That was a great answer, Kendall. I'm very impressed by 1165 01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:34,200 Speaker 1: that answer, especially like the the cost per use analysis 1166 01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:37,760 Speaker 1: and and you know viewpoint that you can take to 1167 01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:41,040 Speaker 1: look at it, because that's what I've never thought about 1168 01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:43,360 Speaker 1: my gear that way, and you like, I'm gonna go 1169 01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:45,760 Speaker 1: down to my gear shed right now and start looking 1170 01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:47,600 Speaker 1: at stuff and see if I can put like a 1171 01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:51,600 Speaker 1: monetary value on like per you know, per use on it, 1172 01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:54,560 Speaker 1: because that's a very interesting way and it makes sense 1173 01:06:54,680 --> 01:07:00,600 Speaker 1: because then everybody's gonna get let's say, as out of 1174 01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:03,760 Speaker 1: the boots. You might just do it in one year's time. 1175 01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,120 Speaker 1: Someone else might do that in five years time, and 1176 01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:08,600 Speaker 1: someone else might do it in ten years time. And 1177 01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:10,840 Speaker 1: as long as you, you know, take care of them 1178 01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:13,120 Speaker 1: in between the uses, and I think that everybody will 1179 01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:16,520 Speaker 1: still get there days. It just depends on how long 1180 01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:18,560 Speaker 1: you take to get there. And that's no different than 1181 01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:22,000 Speaker 1: putting miles on your card or miles on your tires. Right, 1182 01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:25,760 Speaker 1: everybody's gonna get fifty thou just some people might do 1183 01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:28,240 Speaker 1: it in a year, some people might do it in 1184 01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:31,880 Speaker 1: it's ten you know. It's the one other thing. And 1185 01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:33,640 Speaker 1: I don't want to I don't want to derail this 1186 01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:35,360 Speaker 1: or go too much longer. But one other thing you 1187 01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:39,280 Speaker 1: have to think about on time of footwear, just like 1188 01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:40,840 Speaker 1: a car tire. Like if you if you have a 1189 01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:43,200 Speaker 1: trailer out back and you have a tire on it, 1190 01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:45,600 Speaker 1: and and it you might only use it once a year, 1191 01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:49,640 Speaker 1: but seven years later it's like dude, this tires coming apart. 1192 01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:53,520 Speaker 1: Or it's it's in footwear, the same thing happens. It's 1193 01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:57,120 Speaker 1: a process called hydrolysis. And what happens is is a boot. 1194 01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:59,560 Speaker 1: If you store a boot over a long period of 1195 01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:02,480 Speaker 1: time and that boot goes hot cold, hot, cold, or 1196 01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:06,920 Speaker 1: maybe it changes humidity multiple times and it's just kind 1197 01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:10,120 Speaker 1: of sitting there. You might get occasionally used, those those 1198 01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:13,240 Speaker 1: glues and the other things, regardless of the manufacturer, start 1199 01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:17,439 Speaker 1: to undergo a process called hydrolysis, which breaks down the 1200 01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:22,640 Speaker 1: bonding within those different layers, and you may see premature 1201 01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:27,800 Speaker 1: cracking of the leather, for example, or premature separation where 1202 01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:32,840 Speaker 1: there's glue points and in whatever footwear if that's you know, hey, 1203 01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:35,360 Speaker 1: I've only had these six years and I barely use them. 1204 01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:39,160 Speaker 1: In what the heck? Um that could happen? So just 1205 01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:42,360 Speaker 1: just a little asterix or caveat there. No, I think 1206 01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:45,040 Speaker 1: most people would look at it because and they would 1207 01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:47,800 Speaker 1: see it in the form of dry leather right where. 1208 01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:49,799 Speaker 1: Oh I just you know, I was on a snowy 1209 01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:53,400 Speaker 1: wet hunt last December and then I threw those boots 1210 01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:55,559 Speaker 1: in the closet or wherever, and I pulled them back 1211 01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:59,320 Speaker 1: out and September, and boy, they don't look like they 1212 01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:01,120 Speaker 1: were when they were new. It's they don't feel like 1213 01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:04,200 Speaker 1: they used to, right right, Yeah, they don't flex like 1214 01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:07,360 Speaker 1: they used to. Um. So yeah, we're gonna cover that 1215 01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:11,840 Speaker 1: topic on a on an upcoming gear Talk podcast. But Kendall. 1216 01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:15,400 Speaker 1: Thanks man, that was super informative. You bet, thank you, 1217 01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:17,920 Speaker 1: You're welcome. Thank you for from me on. I love 1218 01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:21,200 Speaker 1: love talking about gears. You can tell awesome. Okay, who 1219 01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:23,120 Speaker 1: do I need to talk to to see if I 1220 01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:26,360 Speaker 1: can get a pair of Christie Crispy booths from Crispy Us. 1221 01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:30,439 Speaker 1: Jordan's has my contacts, but yeah, I just search us 1222 01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:33,120 Speaker 1: up at crispy us dot com. But I'd love to 1223 01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:35,200 Speaker 1: love to get your feet into some and see if 1224 01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:38,559 Speaker 1: they're if they're good for your feet, Yeah, I'd love 1225 01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:42,320 Speaker 1: to try them. All right, signing off until next time. Jordan, 1226 01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:43,920 Speaker 1: do we need to add anything right now at the 1227 01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:47,400 Speaker 1: end here? Mmmm? I don't think so. Just if anybody 1228 01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:49,720 Speaker 1: has questions and to gear Talk at the Meat dot 1229 01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:53,160 Speaker 1: com or go to the Mediator dot com and find 1230 01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:57,240 Speaker 1: our gear talk tab under podcasts and then under this 1231 01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:00,280 Speaker 1: specific episode you can scroll down and you you can 1232 01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:03,800 Speaker 1: comment on a specific episode and we'll get back with you. Yeah. 1233 01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:07,680 Speaker 1: And as of this, as of recording today, we've yet 1234 01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:13,360 Speaker 1: have any comments on our first three released episodes, So 1235 01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:17,760 Speaker 1: please someone be the first one. Go to, like Jordan's said, 1236 01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:22,320 Speaker 1: Meteor dot com, find this particular episode and comment there, 1237 01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:24,120 Speaker 1: and the cool thing about that is that it will 1238 01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:27,240 Speaker 1: be a little bit forum like where you can see 1239 01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:29,800 Speaker 1: other people's comments and we can get you know, a 1240 01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:33,880 Speaker 1: little bit of a conversation rolling and anything goes there. 1241 01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:37,160 Speaker 1: So please use that and it will help us make 1242 01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:40,920 Speaker 1: a better podcast. Thanks again for listen, and we'll see 1243 01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:41,960 Speaker 1: you guys in a couple of weeks