WEBVTT - Will the World’s Biggest Nuclear Power Plant Get a Restart? 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:07.480 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.719 Last winter, on a windy, chilly morning, Bloomberg's reporter Shoko 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:18.520 Oda arrived in a tiny rural city called Kashiwazaki. It's 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:22.400 on the western coast of Japan, surrounded by mountains and rice. 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:25.720 Fields, and it's about a two hour bullet train ride 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:29.600 from Tokyo, and it's known for heavy snow during the winter, 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:32.199 so there's a lot of ski resorts. The other thing 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:35.839 that it's really well known for is really good quality 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:38.519 of rice, so there's a lot of sake brewers that 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:40.520 are making sake there as well. 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:44.400 But Shoko wasn't there for skiing or sak tasting. She 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:48.960 was invited to tour the world's biggest nuclear power plant, 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:50.919 known as kk SO. 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:54.360 KK stands for Kashawazaki Kadiwa, and it's named after the 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:58.040 two cities that it straddles over, and it has seven 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:01.520 nuclear reactors and it's it's also the world's biggest nuclear 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:05.679 power plant, with eight point two gigabot capacity. If kk 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:10.959 ran smoothly without any problems at a very conservative maintenance schedule, 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:15.040 it would produce enough power for roughly thirteen million households 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:15.600 in Japan. 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:20.120 That's enough to power double the homes in Tokyo. Now, 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:24.200 KK doesn't allow electronic devices in its facility, so Shoko 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:27.600 couldn't record anything, but she walked us through her visit. 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:30.040 You know, nuclear power plants are one of the most 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:34.400 highly secured places in Japan. Lots of checkpoints. They also 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:38.039 give you protective gear. And then we went inside the 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.959 actual reactor. You'd at number seven where we were taken 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.120 to an observation deck and you could kind of see 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:48.800 through the glass the operating floor where there's a spent 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:52.559 nuclear fuel pool. That's where they keep the used fuel. 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:58.720 There's lots of pipes and wires. Some places are quite small. 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.000 You have to kind of walk through noks and grannies 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:04.240 to get to places. You feel like you're getting lost 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:06.840 inside a complete maze, like a labyrinth. 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:10.600 Sho goo. What was going through your head as you 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:12.320 were walking through this power plant? 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:15.840 Well, I mean, it really hits you when you're inside 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.840 the actual facility itself. Of course you follow the roles 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:23.120 on the protocol, but you know, it makes me wonder 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:27.600 sometimes what happens if an earthquake strikes at that point, 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:31.040 how will we be getting out of the facility? In 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:34.600 times like that. So that's something that crosses my mind 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:36.760 whenever I'm at a nuclear power plant. 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:40.680 Shoko's worry was once a living nightmare for about one 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:44.520 hundred and twenty eight million people living in Japan. In 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:46.960 twenty eleven, an earthquake hit the east coast of the 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:50.760 country and caused a meltdown at the Fukushima Daichi Nuclear 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:55.040 power plant. That facility is owned by Tokyo Electric Power 0:02:55.040 --> 0:03:01.960 Company or TEPCO, which also owns KK. Fukushima Japan suspended 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:07.160 operations of all its nuclear reactors, but now thirteen years later, 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:12.240 the debate about restarting KK, the world's largest nuclear power plant, 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:13.800 is heating up. 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:19.200 I mean, Kashawazaki Katiwa is incredibly symbolic. It's symbolic in 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.079 a sense that it's the last nuclear power plot operated 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:26.800 by TEPCO, the company responsible for the Fukushiba Daichi disaster, 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.240 and if this world were to be able to restart, 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.399 I think the Japanese government sees it as a positive 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:37.640 thing that boosts sentiment to adopt more nuclear power use. 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:41.280 So I think the government really is looking at it 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:43.640 as a critical piece of the puzzle. 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.880 Welcome to the Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm Wanha. 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.280 Every week we take you inside some of the world's 0:03:56.280 --> 0:04:00.440 biggest and most powerful economies and the markets TAIKUUS and 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:04.840 businesses that drive this ever shifting region. Today on the show, 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:09.360 will the world's biggest nuclear power plant get a Second Chance? 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:18.840 Japan has a relatively long history of developing nuclear power. 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:23.480 The country's first nuclear reactor began operating in nineteen sixty six. 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:28.480 So Japan's always been resource scant. We import a lot 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:32.480 of our energy needs from abroad. In the nineteen seventies, 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:36.200 Japan was impacted by the oil shocks. That was one 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:39.640 of the drivers for Japan then to turn to use 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:43.240 of nuclear power because they thought that it's important to 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:47.880 reduce dependency on imports of energy. So at one point, 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:52.080 Japan had a goal to boost nuclear power used to 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:54.640 fifty percent of its power box by twenty thirty. 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:59.520 With that goal, Japan boasted fifty four nuclear reactors throughout 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:03.599 the country in twenty eleven, among the most globally, and 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:08.320 made nuclear energy a strategic priority, and it worked. At 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:11.359 one point, nuclear was about a third of Japan's power 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:14.200 mix until Fukushima. 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.720 So in March eleven, twenty eleven, there was a massive 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:21.040 earthquake and tsunami that struck northeastern coast of Japan. 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:24.919 Boady seen wipes four meters high, that's thirteen feet. We 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:29.000 saw houses being swept into rice fields. Then now. 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:35.200 And these tsunami overwhelmed top coast Fukushima Daichi Nuclear Power Plant, 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:39.000 and it led to a power loss and failure to 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:42.960 cool down the nuclear reactors there, and it caused a meltdown. 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:46.800 An evacuation was ordered less than an hour ago for 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:49.920 residents that live within about two kilometers of. 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:54.080 A reactor in the prefecture of Fukushima. The Fukushima disaster 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:58.279 is regarded as the worst nuclear accident since Chernobyl in 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:02.839 nineteen eighty six. In the aftermath of Fukushima, Japan suspended 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:06.760 operations of all of its fifty four nuclear reactors and 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:09.119 permanently scrapped about a third of them. 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:15.240 Fukushiba basically changed everything. The disaster really changed Japan's energy policy. 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:19.039 Japan took all of its nuclear power plants offline to 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:22.800 chuck for safety, and they also put in place a 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:27.520 due regulatory framework that requires utilities to follow that process 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:29.960 before they can bring nuclear reactors back online. 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:35.320 Since Fukushima. Japan has restarted twelve nuclear reactors and five 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:39.400 more are waiting to come back online pending additional approvals. 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:45.040 That includes two reactors at KK. Shoko spoke with Raphael Grossi, 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:49.880 Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency. He thinks 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:52.640 it's important for Japan to be able to rely on 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:54.240 nuclear energy again. 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:58.480 He thought that Japan has all these nuclear reactors sitting 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:03.160 idle in the country, all of that capacity that's wasted, 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:07.880 that's sitting there has potential to lower carbon emissions from 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:12.360 coal and gas plants, but it's just the restart takes 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:14.960 such a long time and that it just remains there 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:16.640 collecting dust. 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:21.920 Today, Japan relies almost seventy percent of its power mix 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:25.840 on imported fossil fuel like coal and liquefied natural gas, 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:30.600 which makes Japan incredibly vulnerable to the swings in energy prices. 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.880 So whenever there's a spike in let's say an LNG price, 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:38.920 Japanese utilities get impacted. Then the same goes for like coal. 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.080 On top of that, you know, the yen has been 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:45.320 at historic weakness against the dollar, which makes it even 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:50.440 more expensive for utilities to procure energy from abroad. Just 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:54.240 to give a figure. Japan imported like twenty seven trillion 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:58.320 yen of energy last year. That's about one hundred and 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:00.400 seventy three billion dollars. 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:05.960 One hundred and seventy three billion US dollars. That's more 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:10.400 than what Japan made exporting cars last year. That big 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:13.800 energy bill means there's little room for debate on why 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:17.200 Japan needs a new way to power its four tillion 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:23.160 dollar economy, and Shoko says the regional wars and conflicts 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:26.400 in recent years made this need even more urgent. 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:31.360 The invasion of Ukraine really had a big impact. After 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:35.400 the invasion, you know, cobodity prices went flying through the roof, 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:39.760 and Prime Minister Fumio Kishida explained that in order to 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:45.080 achieve energy security but also achieve climate goals because nuclear 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:48.880 can provide carbon free energy, the Prime Minister himself said 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:53.520 that Japan should restart as video of its reactors as possible, 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:58.160 so long as it's passed the safety protocols, but also 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:03.040 look into developing next sedervation reactors and trying to harness 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:04.160 that technology more. 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:08.120 There are other reasons why Japan wants to harness nuclear 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:12.000 power more. For one, it wants to attract more semiconductor 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:16.400 manufacturers like TSMC to make chips in Japan, and that's 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:21.880 expected to increase electricity demand significantly. Plus there's also a 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:25.199 move to revive nuclear power around the world. 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:28.960 China has plans to roll out more nuclear power plants, 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:32.160 there are talks in the US to try to bring 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:36.920 some back online. Even developing countries or looking at nuclear power, 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:41.920 including Bangladesh, India. So it's really not just a path, 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:46.560 but every other country is looking at atomic energy as 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:51.719 a way to secure energy. 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:55.200 This year, Japan started a review of its national Energy 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:58.120 Strategy to set a target for the country's power mix 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.800 in the future. The strategy says Japan will aim for 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.280 nuclear to be up to twenty two percent of its 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.320 power mix by the end of the decade. In fiscal 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.920 twenty twenty two, nuclear accounted for just five percent of 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:15.000 the energy mix, and next month, lawmakers and Nigata, the 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:18.760 prefecture where KK is based, will meet and likely consider 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:20.600 whether to support a restart. 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:25.040 I spoke with some of these lawmakers and they're very 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:29.480 wary about restarting KK, and many have said that it's 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:33.680 not the right time to be even discussing whether KK 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:34.960 should be restarted or not. 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.920 After the break, what it takes to restart a nuclear reactor, 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:58.120 and the challenges ahead Shoko. Earlier, we talked about how 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:01.600 Japan wants to restart the world's biggest nuclear power plant 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:04.840 to tackle soaring energy costs. How do you even go 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:07.959 about doing that? I mean, obviously it's not like restarting 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:10.040 a computer. You're not just flipping a switch. 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:17.120 Yeah, it's an incredibly complicated and long winded process. So basically, 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:21.680 Japanese utilities have to submit a plan to the nation's regulator, 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:25.400 and that's submitted to the Nuclear Regulation Authority and they 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:28.480 check whether it matches the new framework that came into 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:32.600 place after the Flukushiba disaster. Once that's approved, it goes 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:36.440 back to the utility to conduct the necessary safety construction 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.800 work at the power plant, and then on top of that, 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:43.000 they also have to gain the blessing of the local 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:45.600 governor of the town that the nuclear power plant's in. 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.800 And that blessing from the local governor, it's not even 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:54.400 a legal requirement. Technically, idler reactors just need regulators approval 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:58.720 to restart. Companies like TEPCO typically seek consent from the 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:03.520 local governor and a STEM, but citizen lawsuits or protests 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:07.560 can slow that down. For KK, two of its seven 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:12.000 reactors have passed the required safety protocols. But Shoko says 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:15.800 local lawmakers and residents in Niganta, where KK is located, 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:20.960 don't seem excited about restarting a nuclear plant in their backyard. 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:25.560 And the reason for that is Japan saw another earthquake 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:30.360 on January first, and it happened to take place somewhere 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.560 close to Nigata. It shook quite a lot in Nigatta. 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.160 The lawmakers themselves said that they saw a lot of 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:39.359 people trying to evacuate, and the roads were getting congested 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:42.840 because everyone's trying to evacuate all at once. All of 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:46.840 this gets compounded, and so they don't think the evacuation 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:49.319 plan put in place is adequate enough. They don't think 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:53.080 the road infrastructure is strong enough. And so I could 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.679 really feel the temperature difference between, you know, the national 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.920 government that's been very proactive and trying to promote you 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:05.000 nuclear energy versus the actual local government that's actually dealing 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.880 with the risk of a potential disaster. 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:12.800 And even if all these safety concerns are addressed, the 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:16.439 residents in Nigata don't actually have much to gain from 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:17.400 restarting KK. 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:23.040 Tokyo Electric operates KK. That means if Tokyo Electric were 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:25.640 able to cut back off fossil fuel imports at lower 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:28.840 power bills, all of that benefit goes to people like 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:33.640 me living in Tokyo and the surrounding prefectures. Nigata is 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:38.199 actually covered by a different utility, and so they don't 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.440 get the benefit of, let's say a lower power bill. 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.559 All they get is just the risks. 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:50.960 A Bloomberg NEF report forecasts that Tepco could resume operations 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:55.560 at kk's Number seven reactor as soon as October. For now, 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:59.640 there's no official target date, and for many Japanese today, 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:04.400 the memory and trauma of Fukushima still loom large. 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:09.160 Obviously, Japan is one of the most sizifically active places 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:12.800 in the world. You know, every single time there's an earthquake, 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:16.440 I as an energy reporter, the first thing that comes 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.760 to my mind is what's the closest nuclear power plant 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:23.560 to where the earthquake took place? And so it's the 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:27.520 key sticking point for people when they debate whether nuclear 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:32.880 is safe or good or not. The Trade Minister once 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:36.680 said that it takes years and years to gain trust 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.760 and it only takes a second to lose that trust. 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:42.080 That was his line to TEPCO. To make sure that 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.400 they know that attentions on them and make sure that 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:48.760 they need to do everything they can to gain that 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:49.920 trust back from the public. 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:54.600 Shoko. Despite the trauma of Fukushima, it seems that the 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:58.000 reality and the needs on the ground are making people 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:00.000 think differently about nuclear. 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:03.000 In Yeah, I think. I mean, it was a very 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:07.720 traumatizing event for the country, but at the same time, 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:13.240 it's spent thirteen years and public sentiment toward nuclear in 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:18.360 Japad has shifted, especially with the invasion of ukraateive power 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:21.720 bills going up, people started to kind of warm up 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.720 to the idea of nuclear power because if that means 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:28.200 lowering fuel imports and lowering power bills, then you know, 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:28.680 why not. 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:38.200 Thanks for listening to The Big Take Asia podcast from 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:42.480 Bloomberg News. I'm wan ha. This episode was produced by 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:47.080 Young Young Naomi, Jessica Beck, and Alex Sugiera. It was 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.560 mixed by Blake Maples and fact checked by Naomi. It 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:54.160 was edited by Bill Ferries and David Stringer. Naomi Shaven 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:57.800 and Kim Gittleson are our senior producers. Elizabeth Ponso is 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:02.360 our senior editor, Nicole Beemster is our executive producer. Sage 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:06.280 Bauman is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. Please follow and review 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.120 The Big Take Asia wherever you listen to podcasts. It 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:12.040 helps new listeners find the show. See you next time.