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Speaker 1: We're lucky this morning. Joining us around the table is

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Speaker 1: Tom Stein of Governize Climate Solutions. Tom, it's good to

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Speaker 1: see us, sir, Welcome back.

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Speaker 2: Good morning.

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Speaker 1: It's been a fantastic week of conversations, many of them

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Speaker 1: energy and climate related. I know you've had similar conversations

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Speaker 1: this week. Are you walking away from these meetings this

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Speaker 1: week more optimistic, more constructive about the future?

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Speaker 2: Well, I came in pretty optimistic about the future, and

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Speaker 2: I'm leaving even more optimistic. I think we're in the

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Speaker 2: middle of a new industrial revolution. I think that the

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Speaker 2: energy transition has a lot of momentum, so I feel

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Speaker 2: very good about where we're going from a business standpoint.

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Speaker 1: What's encouraging the most right now? What are you hearing

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Speaker 1: that's giving you the most encouragement.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think the.

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Speaker 2: Big thing that's happened is that clean energy and the

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Speaker 2: new technologies are winning in the marketplace, and they're winning

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Speaker 2: in the marketplace around the world, so we can talk.

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Speaker 2: I think most people think that at some point we're

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Speaker 2: going to start going through an energy transition, but the

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Speaker 2: actual truth is we're right in the middle of a

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Speaker 2: very fast energy transition around the world, and really nothing's

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Speaker 2: going to stop.

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Speaker 3: We're also in the middle of an election cycle.

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Speaker 4: Are you disappointed that Kamala Harrison a two policy document

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Speaker 4: was actually touting US record fossil fuel production.

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Speaker 2: I really think that the Harris Wall's campaign is trying

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Speaker 2: to talk about energy and meet voters where they are,

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Speaker 2: which is about economics. We know that Kamala Harris has

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Speaker 2: been a strong advocate of clean energy for decades. We

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Speaker 2: know that Governor Walls has a very strong climate record.

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Speaker 2: But when they're talking to voters on the campaign trail,

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Speaker 2: it's not about what you want to talk about, it's

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Speaker 2: what they are able to hear. And what everybody in

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Speaker 2: the United States is worried about right now is economics.

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Speaker 2: Is about US succeeding, is about jobs and costs, and

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Speaker 2: that's what they're talking about. And I think that's entirely appropriate.

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Speaker 3: If that is accurate, which I think you do.

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Speaker 4: Everyone is talking about this, then why put the brakes

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Speaker 4: on some projects that could.

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Speaker 3: Fuel all of this.

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Speaker 4: We spoke to the Rio Tinto CEO yesterday who basically

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Speaker 4: said it was a Biden administration who put a pause

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Speaker 4: on a mega comper mine in Arizona. Part of this

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Speaker 4: has to do with politics.

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Speaker 2: I know that there's a lot of talk about critical minerals,

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Speaker 2: and I know that people are pointing out different ways

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Speaker 2: that this revolution can be slowed or can be he

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Speaker 2: can lose his momentum, And I believe all of those

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Speaker 2: conversations are overblown. I believe that in fact, what we're

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Speaker 2: going through is a huge business transformation, that it has

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Speaker 2: amazing momentum. Will there be problems with it about permitting

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Speaker 2: and the grid and critical minerals, absolutely, and people talk

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Speaker 2: about them all the time, but they're missing the big picture,

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Speaker 2: which is if you look at twenty twenty three, globally,

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Speaker 2: eighty three percent of new electricity generation was renewable. Was

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Speaker 2: anybody doing that to be nice?

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Speaker 3: Nobody.

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Speaker 2: They did it because it's a better deal. You know,

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Speaker 2: we're really in the time of cheaper, faster, better. In fact,

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Speaker 2: the new technologies are better and they're cheaper, and people

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Speaker 2: around the world are adopting them for that reason, not

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Speaker 2: to be nice, not to save the world, because it's

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Speaker 2: a better deal for them.

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Speaker 1: Just to pick up on that shot of crude production

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Speaker 1: to thirteen million mirros a day in America was certainly

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Speaker 1: less reliant on opek. We've had some guests on the

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Speaker 1: program this week making the suggestion that we're becoming more

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Speaker 1: reliant on China for some of those critical minerals. I

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Speaker 1: want to pick up on Amory's point because I think

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Speaker 1: it's important. The Rio Tinto CEO was talking about resolution copper.

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Speaker 1: It's a comper deposit that could meet twenty five percent

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Speaker 1: of American demand year after year, four years. I want

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Speaker 1: to understand from your perspective, do you believe that US

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Speaker 1: authorities have actually had a sufficient reality check to understand

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Speaker 1: where we need to get this stuff from and what

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Speaker 1: we need to start doing now to make sure we

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Speaker 1: can meet that demand a decade out.

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Speaker 2: Look, there's no question that a lot of minerals are

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Speaker 2: dispersed around the world and in countries that don't aren't

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Speaker 2: necessarily as stable as ours is. But let's take a

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Speaker 2: step back on that one, because what we're the alternative

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Speaker 2: and what we're talking about is fossil fuels. And if

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Speaker 2: you look at the world stage and how many of

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Speaker 2: the wars over the last fifty years have their heart

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Speaker 2: been about fossil fuels, have been in fossil fuel countries.

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Speaker 2: How many of the wars that we're going through right

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Speaker 2: now are led by people who are in oil rich countries.

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Speaker 2: I think it's really clear that moving to renewable energy,

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Speaker 2: which is dispersed around the world, where people can get

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Speaker 2: it in their own countries and use it in their

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Speaker 2: own countries, something that will dramatically drive down the conflict

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Speaker 2: in the world and make us much more secure.

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Speaker 5: Just to build on what John was talking about, or

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Speaker 5: in the middle of an energy transition that hinges on

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Speaker 5: products from China. Basically, solar panels mostly come from China.

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Speaker 5: A lot of the products that go into batteries of

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Speaker 5: electric vehicles also from China.

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Speaker 3: Is that the path forward?

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Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be. I mean, there's a real

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Speaker 2: question here, and I believe this is one of the

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Speaker 2: big questions for the United States in this campaign, and

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Speaker 2: it's a big partisan divide in the United States. And

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Speaker 2: I regret to say it. China doesn't have any oil

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Speaker 2: and gas. They are all in on the energy transition.

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Speaker 2: They are electrifying ten times fast than the rest of

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Speaker 2: the world. If you talk about the new energy movement,

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Speaker 2: half of it is in China. For the whole world,

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Speaker 2: the United States, we're the biggest oil and gas producers.

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Speaker 2: We have a huge people who are pushing to stay

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Speaker 2: the same, to move backwards, to rely more on fossil fuels.

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Speaker 2: Let me give you an analogy electric cars. The first

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Speaker 2: people to develop an electric car in the United States

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Speaker 2: was GM. GM makes a lot of money selling SUVs.

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Speaker 2: They looked and said, electric car, We lose money on everyone.

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Speaker 2: We're not going there. Tesla, who has no internal combustion

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Speaker 2: engine capability, went all in on electric cars. They were

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Speaker 2: the upstart. That's kind of where we are with China.

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Speaker 2: China is all in, and we have people who are

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Speaker 2: asking us to tap the brakes, slow down, let's stay

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Speaker 2: with the nineteen fifties. Absolutely, we can win this competition,

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Speaker 2: and absolutely we have to be in this competition. But

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Speaker 2: if we decide that the future is fossil fuel, then

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Speaker 2: we will basically draw a mode around ourselves and not

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Speaker 2: compete in the critical industrial revolution. And that is terrible

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Speaker 2: for us because this is absolutely where the world is going.

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Speaker 2: We absolutely can compete and win in this, and if

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Speaker 2: we choose not to, that's a terrible outcome for the

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Speaker 2: United States of America.

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Speaker 5: You made an analogy about this week as being like

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Speaker 5: a shoe convention for shoe manufacturers, for people in green

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Speaker 5: energy space. How many people who came to this shoe

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Speaker 5: convention or energy convention or big tech executives a lot.

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Speaker 2: You know, there is a look, I live in California.

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Speaker 2: The center of the tech industry in the United States

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Speaker 2: is in California. And in general, as we look at

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Speaker 2: the scaling up of AI and data centers in the

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Speaker 2: United States and around the world, one of the key

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Speaker 2: elements to how fast that can happen, and for every

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Speaker 2: one of those companies that wants to lead in AI

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Speaker 2: is the ability to get energy. So they're all over

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Speaker 2: this and you know, they are focused on doing it,

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Speaker 2: and they have high expectations about clean energy and being

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Speaker 2: good corporate citizens. But they are as you know, people

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Speaker 2: think Californias are laid back surface who smoke a lot

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Speaker 2: of dope. Let me say serious business people who are

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Speaker 2: competitive governo.

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Speaker 1: There's a bit of that Kevanon as well.

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Speaker 3: You know, life is about balance, Tom.

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Speaker 4: When it comes to the Tolisa's point about these A

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Speaker 4: data centers, what we saw from Microsoft with three mile

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Speaker 4: Who is better at this the tech companies in the

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Speaker 4: private sector or the US government.

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Speaker 2: Well it's interesting because let's just take an example one

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Speaker 2: of the things that is changing. I mean, people are

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Speaker 2: looking at a lot of new technologies for generating clean electricity,

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Speaker 2: and one of them is enhanced geothermal. Okay, enhanced geo

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Speaker 2: thermal is basic geothermal is the equivalent of Old Faithful

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Speaker 2: hot water and steam from the earth, and traditionally it's

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Speaker 2: been done very close to the surface, within five hundred

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Speaker 2: feet and you know that's why Old Faithful it's so

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Speaker 2: close that people can go and it's always spouting. Enhanced

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Speaker 2: geothermal is going down ten times deeper using oil and

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Speaker 2: gas technology, oil and gas rigs, oil and gas workers

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Speaker 2: to get the same thing, but a much bigger size.

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Speaker 2: So the question is, Okay, did the US government make

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Speaker 2: that happen? Did the private sector make that happen? Did

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Speaker 2: the tech companies make that happen? And the answer is yes.

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Speaker 5: To put a bow on that, how much are big

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Speaker 5: tech companies looking to buy directly energy assets to own them,

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Speaker 5: to be owners and funders of these types of projects

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Speaker 5: and infrastructure.

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Speaker 2: I think they're doing something different. I think what they're

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Speaker 2: trying to be is direct buyers from the producers of

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Speaker 2: clean electricity. What you saw at Three Mile Island, it

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Speaker 2: wasn't that Microsoft wants to own energy assets. It wants

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Speaker 2: to have a direct contract and be the off take

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Speaker 2: so that they can develop energy assets. And that's the

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Speaker 2: role they're trying to play and I think that's a

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Speaker 2: super constructive role. And I think that buy and large

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Speaker 2: they're doing a very good job.

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Speaker 1: So this was a small conversation and we always appreciate

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Speaker 1: your time, sir. It's good to see you again.

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Speaker 2: Great to see you guys.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Tom stand there of Galvaniced Climate Solutions,