Speaker 1: I kept seeing like helicopters and coughs passing us coming
Speaker 1: back the other way, and I've seen her grandma, her
Speaker 1: grandmaa me she's going all right, He's gonna froze. Angela
Speaker 1: ran out of the Peterson Road house to chase Tabatha
Speaker 1: up with a shotgun. Gak and George followed, and Hannah
Speaker 1: was told by Jake not to leave the house or
Speaker 1: he would chop off her legs. This is the Piked
Speaker 1: and Massacre returned to Pike County season four, episode ten.
Speaker 1: In their own words, I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer
Speaker 1: at Hayti Studios, along with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane.
Speaker 1: It's been a revealing, gut wrenching trial thus far. While
Speaker 1: the jury has heard reams of incriminating evidence against Shake Wagner,
Speaker 1: we must remember that Jake, who's already played guilty, is
Speaker 1: not the one on trial. Thus far, the testimony against
Speaker 1: George Wagner himself has been far more scant. There's no
Speaker 1: DNA evidence that puts George at the Roden's homes on
Speaker 1: the night of April twenty first, twenty sixteen. There's also
Speaker 1: no evidence that George was implicated in Jake's custody battle
Speaker 1: with Hanname Roden. On the other hand, the defense has
Speaker 1: thus far failed to produce an alibi for where George
Speaker 1: was during the night of the killings. It's important to
Speaker 1: note that George Wagner the fourth, along with his father
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner, whose child is upcoming, deny any wrongdoing and
Speaker 1: have pleaded not guilty to all charges. Here's Stephanie and Jeff.
Speaker 1: It appears that Angie Kinnebre, the special prosecutor, is really
Speaker 1: telling us a story right now, painting a picture about
Speaker 1: the lives of the Wagners, how they were incredibly a
Speaker 1: mesh together, But so far nothing very specific that implicates
Speaker 1: George specifically to that night. What the prosecution is trying
Speaker 1: to do is really paint the picture all four of
Speaker 1: them were in on this together from the start. And look,
Speaker 1: we've heard a lot of different stories about the Wagner family.
Speaker 1: They technically operated like a mob or like a cult
Speaker 1: in that Angela Wagner was very controlling and had a
Speaker 1: very odd relationship with both of her boys, specifically George.
Speaker 1: But again, those might paint a messy picture of a family,
Speaker 1: But does that mean that George is guilty of mass murder.
Speaker 1: I have to assume there's more evidence to come. That
Speaker 1: kind of piggybacks on a point I want to bring up,
Speaker 1: which is just how many witnesses there are. As we
Speaker 1: have seen, the state is really telling a full story
Speaker 1: from start to finish, which includes a lot of people
Speaker 1: that don't on the surface, have anything to do with
Speaker 1: the actual night in question. I spoke to legal analysts
Speaker 1: and expert Mike Allen about this, and he said that
Speaker 1: the amount of witnesses is completely up to the prosecution.
Speaker 1: They can have three or three hundred, it's all up
Speaker 1: to them, and all they have to do is provide
Speaker 1: a witness list to the judge and defense during the
Speaker 1: discovery process. There has to be some level of jury fatigue, right,
Speaker 1: so three hundred witnesses would be pretty extreme if we're
Speaker 1: telling a peripheral story. Judge during did have to approve
Speaker 1: each witness, so he clearly thinks that something about it
Speaker 1: is acceptable enough to be allowed in the courtroom. It's
Speaker 1: just a really interesting spot to be at in the trial.
Speaker 1: Where is it one thing to hear bad things and
Speaker 1: to know that, frankly, the wagoners may have just been
Speaker 1: very bad people. Is that enough or do we need
Speaker 1: to have more evidence, specifically putting George at the scene.
Speaker 1: I'm so curious about how that plays out. The following
Speaker 1: testimony digs deeper into the Wagner clan and also uncovers
Speaker 1: testimony that for the first time, shows that George was
Speaker 1: in fact in his family stall. Good afternoon, How are
Speaker 1: you good? Can you please stay tr name? And why
Speaker 1: don't you go ahead and spell your first name and
Speaker 1: spell your last name? Alan Holdron pseudo r E Y
Speaker 1: h L d Rien Corey. How old are you be?
Speaker 1: Thirty next month? Nine? And can you tell us where
Speaker 1: you live? You okay? Corey Holdron was Hannahme Rodin's boyfriend
Speaker 1: at the time of her death. When they began dating,
Speaker 1: Hannahme was pregnant with her daughter, who she shared with
Speaker 1: ex boyfriend Charlie Gilly. Corey Holdron committed to Hannah because
Speaker 1: he wanted a family and was in love with Hannah Me.
Speaker 1: She's no love with man's in love with her. I mean,
Speaker 1: she's the best thing about me really was in our relationship.
Speaker 1: We never thought. She helped me through everything. And can
Speaker 1: you tell us at the time that you started seeing
Speaker 1: her did you have an addiction prob Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll try and to paint pills. And she laid by
Speaker 1: my side, said on the side, through the whole withdrawals
Speaker 1: and all the everything, you know what I mean. Nobody
Speaker 1: would do that. Nobody does that unless she loves somebody.
Speaker 1: And she did got me through at all. And and
Speaker 1: you did you make a commitment to her unborn child
Speaker 1: as well? Yeah, because well she wasn't with Jake, she
Speaker 1: was separated from him, and she said it wasn't his.
Speaker 1: She told me who he was whose It was Charlie Gillies,
Speaker 1: which Hannon's brother. I was dying for her family, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And I told him that if
Speaker 1: he agrees to step back and just let me, you know,
Speaker 1: don't all of us, that I would take care of
Speaker 1: her and I would name her. And so I did.
Speaker 1: I named her Britain cut of I cut up in
Speaker 1: bill upboard. I was the first one to hold her.
Speaker 1: So you stayed with her rap for pregnancy. And you
Speaker 1: were actually at the hospital when she gave her yeah,
Speaker 1: up to the day water actually yeah, yeah, um. And
Speaker 1: did you also go to some of her appointments with
Speaker 1: her prior to Yeah, According to Corey Holdron, Hannah May
Speaker 1: was also a devoted mother to the little girls she
Speaker 1: shared with Jake Wagner. This is your great mom. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's really moment and ever senior odor and every senior
Speaker 1: hat or nothing like that. Corey continues speaking about when
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner brought the toddler he shared with Hannah May
Speaker 1: to see her newborn sister in the hospital. During this visit,
Speaker 1: Jake implied that the baby could be his because she
Speaker 1: had a toe shaped like him and his family members.
Speaker 1: I didn't make a fussing out or anything. He was
Speaker 1: just all the different though, dark hair, dark black hair,
Speaker 1: like I don't know, it was just different. He's got
Speaker 1: a holder and everything like like it was it like
Speaker 1: it was his thought ye like like I don't know
Speaker 1: he thought it was his maybe Okay, And do you
Speaker 1: remember any comments um that he made about any of
Speaker 1: the physical characteristics, something about her toe like like something
Speaker 1: wages wagoner thing. I don't know what was wrong with it.
Speaker 1: I hadn't seen hithing wrong with it, but commented something
Speaker 1: about her toby and a Wagoner thing. Yeah, we're going
Speaker 1: to take a break. We'll be back in a moment.
Speaker 1: When Corey Holdron learned from Kenneth Roden's daughter Kendra, that
Speaker 1: the love of his life, Hanname Rodin, was killed. He
Speaker 1: was in shock. I got a It was around eight
Speaker 1: maybe it was literally than that, but I learned. My
Speaker 1: sisters and me and her wife got in her truck
Speaker 1: and we went to Quarter Lmber. Like I kept seeing
Speaker 1: like helicopters and like cops and like crazy like passing
Speaker 1: us going back the other way. I think nothing of it,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I've went to the quarter,
Speaker 1: we got the Carter Lamber and by the time we
Speaker 1: got there and pulled in, Kindred called me and said
Speaker 1: that something happened that I needed to get to her house. Now.
Speaker 1: She went up from telling me really what happened, She said,
Speaker 1: they're gone, what's up? Mant? So I had my sister's
Speaker 1: wife turn them around and go there. So we went
Speaker 1: down Instead of down thirty two, we went down seven
Speaker 1: seventy two the way the backside, you know. And by
Speaker 1: time I got on her road, they stopped this right
Speaker 1: by her brother's house. And I've seen her grandma and
Speaker 1: her grandma to me, she was going all right, just
Speaker 1: got of froze, like I didn't and I feel anything
Speaker 1: and I understained it. Yeah. Corey explained that he, Hannah May,
Speaker 1: and Kendra all went fishing together before the night of
Speaker 1: the murders. It was a rainy afternoon and Hannah was
Speaker 1: all smiles as she railed in a big catfish, but
Speaker 1: the mood soured when Jake Wagner texted Hannah to see
Speaker 1: if he could watch their daughter for the night. Here's
Speaker 1: Anteinette Levy, reporter for Law and Crime. Hannah Mae had
Speaker 1: just given birth to her newborn daughter and apparently wanted
Speaker 1: to get out of the house, so they had someone
Speaker 1: watched the newborn and they were out fishing and Jake
Speaker 1: Wagner actually she said, which I thought was pretty stunning.
Speaker 1: Kendra said that Jake texted Hannah May and offered to
Speaker 1: keep How chilling is that? Here again, Stephanie and Jeff,
Speaker 1: we've heard a lot about Corey Holdron over the years,
Speaker 1: have never personally connected to him. We have reached out
Speaker 1: over the years, but respectfully didn't want to push so hard.
Speaker 1: So his testimony is so interesting to me. First of all,
Speaker 1: we've always heard that he is so kind and so
Speaker 1: nice and so sweet and was so in love with
Speaker 1: Hannah May, so you can only imagine the destruction that
Speaker 1: has come for him thereafter. We've heard over the years
Speaker 1: multiple times the story about Jake Wagner visiting Hannah May
Speaker 1: in the hospital with her newborn baby, but to hear
Speaker 1: it firsthand with Corey Holdron on the stand in the
Speaker 1: courtroom is a much different experience. Following Corey Holdron, another
Speaker 1: witness came to the stand and offered explosive testimony, this
Speaker 1: time very focused on George Wagner, the fourth. It was
Speaker 1: the first and a critically important juncture in the trial
Speaker 1: where George's character came under scrutiny. The witness is Tabitha Clayton,
Speaker 1: George's ex wife. She had a highly volatile and trema
Speaker 1: of history with the accused murderer. Like Jake and Hannah,
Speaker 1: Tabitha and George were embroiled in their own custody battle
Speaker 1: over their son. Tabitha and George met when Tabitha's mother
Speaker 1: was working for the Wagner matriarch, Frederica at her Flying
Speaker 1: w farm. Pierre married in two and twelve, had a
Speaker 1: son in the summer of twenty thirteen and lived with Angela,
Speaker 1: Jake and Billy Wagner. Tabitha and George ultimately divorced in
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen. Tabitha explains how being with George came with
Speaker 1: a litany of rules and restrictions that came down from
Speaker 1: Angela Wagner life was taxing. Here Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa,
Speaker 1: examining Tabitha on the stand, if you could just tell
Speaker 1: us with the family dynamics, word they are when you
Speaker 1: lived with the Wagner's very strange and controlling. Okay, So
Speaker 1: you said previously that you were not allowed to visit
Speaker 1: your family and your family was not permitted to visit you, correct? Yes?
Speaker 1: And who made those determinations? It was Angela's house, so's hurdles?
Speaker 1: And so are you saying that it was Angela's choices? Yes? Okay?
Speaker 1: And did George go along with those choices? Yes? And
Speaker 1: can you tell us you said Angel's house Angela's rules
Speaker 1: that apply to anything other than just your family coming
Speaker 1: and going. It applied basically everything, So tell us about
Speaker 1: that cooking, cleaning, laundry, and what do you mean by
Speaker 1: that it all had to be done the way that
Speaker 1: she wanted it or you have to either redo it
Speaker 1: or she'll just do it or something. Angela Wagner had
Speaker 1: a ban on certain types of sex that should be
Speaker 1: allowed within George and Tabitha's marriage. In contrast, according to
Speaker 1: she also crossed boundaries with her son George. According to Tabitha,
Speaker 1: every night, Angela Agner would kick Tabitha out of the
Speaker 1: bedroom she shared with George so that Angela could have
Speaker 1: some alone time with her son. She would scratch his
Speaker 1: back while they caught up on the day. What were
Speaker 1: the rules that Angela had for the types of sexual
Speaker 1: relations you could engage in with your husband. He wasn't
Speaker 1: allowed to give blow jobs because you'd go to hill
Speaker 1: and you had to only have sex to have children.
Speaker 1: And is that something that she said to you? She
Speaker 1: said it to me and George wooth okay when you
Speaker 1: were together. Yes. Where would you be when those conversations
Speaker 1: would occur, usually at the kitchen table or in the bedroom?
Speaker 1: Whose bedroom George's okay? And would you stay in George's
Speaker 1: bedroom as long as I was allowed to? Yes? So
Speaker 1: when you say, as long as you were allowed to
Speaker 1: tell me what you're talking about, well, towards the end
Speaker 1: of the night, she would you usually have me leave
Speaker 1: so she could sit there and scratch his back and
Speaker 1: talk about the day. So Angela would come into the
Speaker 1: room that you shared with her husband, Yes, and she
Speaker 1: would ask you to leave, and then she would scratch
Speaker 1: his back and talk about the day. Yes. How frequent
Speaker 1: of an occurrence was that every night? And after she
Speaker 1: was done with that, would you return to the room. Yes.
Speaker 1: After you had your son, where would he sleep most
Speaker 1: of the time? He would sleep with Angela and Billy?
Speaker 1: And again was that your choice? No? Where did you
Speaker 1: want your son to sleep with me in my bed
Speaker 1: or at least in the crib that was bought for him? Okay?
Speaker 1: And where was that crib located next to my bed?
Speaker 1: And who made the decision that he would sleep with
Speaker 1: Angela and Billy instead of with you? George and Antela?
Speaker 1: Can you tell us, or I guess I should say,
Speaker 1: had you ever shared with George that you had been
Speaker 1: sexually abused as a child? I did, but only because
Speaker 1: he had found up by somebody else. Can you tell
Speaker 1: us what was George's reaction to that? He was mad.
Speaker 1: He said he was going to go kill him and
Speaker 1: I told him know and I said on him until
Speaker 1: he had come down the Wagner's rules tightened around Tabitha
Speaker 1: after they learned she had cheeved on George. From Tabitha's
Speaker 1: point of view, her infidelity was a reaction to the
Speaker 1: family suffocating way of life. Was there a time when
Speaker 1: you were unfaithful to George after you were married? Yes? Okay?
Speaker 1: And was it during the time that you were working
Speaker 1: at Crystal Springs? Yes? Did George and the rest of
Speaker 1: them we only find out about that. Yes, you ultimately
Speaker 1: told them. Yes. And at that point did the restrictions
Speaker 1: in your life get even more sitier? Yes? Tell us
Speaker 1: what happened then? I had gotten let go for my job.
Speaker 1: George took my phone from me and factory he said it,
Speaker 1: gave it to his mom. I wasn't allowed to answer
Speaker 1: the house phone, or check the mill, or go outside
Speaker 1: by myself. And when you informed them of this at
Speaker 1: that time where you pregnant, yes, okay. So you remained
Speaker 1: at the home with the Wagner's Yes, And then you
Speaker 1: remained there until profimbly a year after your sent was born. Correct. Yes.
Speaker 1: Did you feel when you were there that you could
Speaker 1: parent your child in the way that you wanted to? No,
Speaker 1: tell us about that. Every night before we went to bed,
Speaker 1: I would be made to go take a nap while
Speaker 1: angel would played with Misson. So again, just more of
Speaker 1: the her spending time with your child that you want
Speaker 1: to to spend time with. Yes, okay. Did you ever
Speaker 1: tell George or have any discussions with him about wanting
Speaker 1: to have your own place and no longer living with
Speaker 1: the extended family? Yes? Okay? And what was his response?
Speaker 1: That we lived on a farm, so we needed to
Speaker 1: live together. He was not interested in moving out. Here's Stephanie.
Speaker 1: We met Tabitha's sister and her mom years ago and
Speaker 1: they've always think of this picture about what life was
Speaker 1: like for Tabitha. We've also reached out to her over
Speaker 1: the years. This is a very big moment hearing her
Speaker 1: testimony for the first time. Now finally hearing from her.
Speaker 1: I mean, imagine she's facing the person who is on trial,
Speaker 1: her ex husband. She's going to have to lock eyes
Speaker 1: with him and really tell some stories, perhaps for the
Speaker 1: very first time. Again, it asks the question if Angela
Speaker 1: Wagner had a very strange relationship with her sons. You know,
Speaker 1: we've always heard this over the years, that she would
Speaker 1: cuddle with them and she would alienate the women who
Speaker 1: came into their lives aka Tabitha also Hannah may rodin
Speaker 1: what does that mean? Does that matter? If George didn't
Speaker 1: commit this murders, then none of this matters whatsoever. He
Speaker 1: was perhaps a bad husband, but again that doesn't make
Speaker 1: him a murderer. But if he did do it and
Speaker 1: is convicted, this certainly paints a very clear picture of
Speaker 1: a destructive and dysfunctional home. But none of it really
Speaker 1: guarantees that George was there, or that George was a
Speaker 1: trigger puller. Let's stop here for another break. One night
Speaker 1: thing spun out of control. After Tabitha didn't do the
Speaker 1: dishes that Angela had told her to do, George Wagner
Speaker 1: turned physically abusive. Tabitha says, this is the first testimony
Speaker 1: we've heard about him being violent. Tell us, I'm Tabitha.
Speaker 1: We have talked a little bit about how long you
Speaker 1: stayed there, what made you leave? When you left, me
Speaker 1: and George were in an argument in the slap okay,
Speaker 1: And if you can tell us, first of all, do
Speaker 1: you recall when that happened? A couple of months after
Speaker 1: son's first birthday? Okay? And when was your son born? Again?
Speaker 1: Is that July of twenty thirteen, you said, a few
Speaker 1: months after his first birthday? Yes, And can you tell
Speaker 1: us what led up to that argument? Me not cleaning
Speaker 1: the kitchen after Angela had made lunch. After Angela had
Speaker 1: done what made lunch? Okay? And so tell us about that.
Speaker 1: How did you know you were supposed to do that?
Speaker 1: She told me to get it cleaned up while her
Speaker 1: and Hannah went to pick up a toy for the kids.
Speaker 1: And did you do that? Why not? Because my son
Speaker 1: would woke up, so I led with him to take
Speaker 1: a nap so he could take a nap. Was your
Speaker 1: son already napping at the time that, Yes, Angela asked
Speaker 1: you to do that. Okay, And we are where the
Speaker 1: rest of the people were, with Jake and George at
Speaker 1: that time. They were I think Jake was with Billy
Speaker 1: driving the truck and George was building the shed that
Speaker 1: is beside the house. Okay, Angela and Hannah come back
Speaker 1: and see that it didn't clean up the mess. So
Speaker 1: what happens then when me and Angelis said, don't argue, okay,
Speaker 1: did you explain to her what had happened? M And
Speaker 1: what happened then George didn't like that I was yelling
Speaker 1: at his mother? How did you know he didn't like that?
Speaker 1: What happened? He came in and started smacking me with
Speaker 1: a boat. And we are in the house. Were you
Speaker 1: at that time in the kitchen doorway? And what happened?
Speaker 1: Then we went to the bedroom and when you see me,
Speaker 1: who do you mean? Me and George? And what happened there?
Speaker 1: He abjected your honor or basics? O? Um? What happened
Speaker 1: in the bedroom? Um? I was gonna go out and
Speaker 1: sit on the porch so I could calm down and
Speaker 1: not be so angry. So you wanted to go outside
Speaker 1: to just be by yourself, calmed down and not be
Speaker 1: as angry? Yes, okay? Were you permitted to go outside?
Speaker 1: You know? How were you not permitted to go outside?
Speaker 1: George stood in front of the door and went let
Speaker 1: me okay? And what did you do at that point?
Speaker 1: I beat him and try to ribe his nuts off.
Speaker 1: When you say you bit him? Where did you bite
Speaker 1: him on his arm up towards his arm, pitt okay?
Speaker 1: And why did you bite that area at his arm?
Speaker 1: What was he doing at that point? He had his
Speaker 1: door and his arm against the door. Not let me
Speaker 1: go through it. Did he let you pass? At that
Speaker 1: point he grew up a hold of these nuts, so
Speaker 1: his arm moved, So that's whenever I ran out the door.
Speaker 1: And then what did you do? I started walking through
Speaker 1: the yard, and then George and Angela came outside to
Speaker 1: try to tell me to come back inside. And what
Speaker 1: happened outside? I told him that I was not going
Speaker 1: to go back inside, that I was going to leave,
Speaker 1: and so Angela threw aboard at me and then told
Speaker 1: George that she's going to go inside and get a gun.
Speaker 1: When you say she threw aboard at you? What kind
Speaker 1: of a board? All right too? By four? And both
Speaker 1: Angela and George were outside with you at that point, yes, okay,
Speaker 1: and then Angela says she's going to go get a gun. Yes.
Speaker 1: At any point outside, did George have physical contact with you? Yeah,
Speaker 1: before the argument got really worse, we were outside and
Speaker 1: we were arguing, and he told man, I needed to
Speaker 1: stop screaming. Where I was going to smack me, and
Speaker 1: so I screamed out and so he smacked me. And
Speaker 1: where did he smack you in the face? And then
Speaker 1: what was your response to that? And I told him
Speaker 1: that he just signed his divorce papers. That he just
Speaker 1: signed his door papers because he smacked you. Yes. So
Speaker 1: when Angela says she's going to go get a gun,
Speaker 1: what do you do? I continue going to on the
Speaker 1: yard and through the fence, and I hid underneath the
Speaker 1: George's truck. And to your knowledge, where were for angel At?
Speaker 1: I assume they were going in to get whichever gun
Speaker 1: they chose. More on that next time. For more information
Speaker 1: on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram
Speaker 1: at Katie Underscore Studios. The Piked and Masker is produced
Speaker 1: by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Alan Wieterer, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel
Speaker 1: Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by
Speaker 1: Jeff ta Music by Jared Aston. The Piked and Masker
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio and Kati Studios. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.