WEBVTT - In Their Own Words 0:00:02.160 --> 0:00:05.360 I kept seeing like helicopters and coughs passing us coming 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:08.520 back the other way, and I've seen her grandma, her 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:12.920 grandmaa me she's going all right, He's gonna froze. Angela 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:16.280 ran out of the Peterson Road house to chase Tabatha 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:21.360 up with a shotgun. Gak and George followed, and Hannah 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:24.319 was told by Jake not to leave the house or 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:33.440 he would chop off her legs. This is the Piked 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:38.480 and Massacre returned to Pike County season four, episode ten. 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:43.560 In their own words, I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:47.040 at Hayti Studios, along with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:51.840 It's been a revealing, gut wrenching trial thus far. While 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:55.240 the jury has heard reams of incriminating evidence against Shake Wagner, 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.720 we must remember that Jake, who's already played guilty, is 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:02.400 not the one on trial. Thus far, the testimony against 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:06.200 George Wagner himself has been far more scant. There's no 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:09.320 DNA evidence that puts George at the Roden's homes on 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:13.399 the night of April twenty first, twenty sixteen. There's also 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.760 no evidence that George was implicated in Jake's custody battle 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:20.360 with Hanname Roden. On the other hand, the defense has 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:23.120 thus far failed to produce an alibi for where George 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:26.600 was during the night of the killings. It's important to 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:29.240 note that George Wagner the fourth, along with his father 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:33.200 Billy Wagner, whose child is upcoming, deny any wrongdoing and 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:37.559 have pleaded not guilty to all charges. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:41.880 It appears that Angie Kinnebre, the special prosecutor, is really 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:45.119 telling us a story right now, painting a picture about 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:48.760 the lives of the Wagners, how they were incredibly a 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:54.120 mesh together, But so far nothing very specific that implicates 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:58.440 George specifically to that night. What the prosecution is trying 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:00.640 to do is really paint the picture all four of 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.400 them were in on this together from the start. And look, 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:07.120 we've heard a lot of different stories about the Wagner family. 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:12.160 They technically operated like a mob or like a cult 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:16.880 in that Angela Wagner was very controlling and had a 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:20.919 very odd relationship with both of her boys, specifically George. 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:26.200 But again, those might paint a messy picture of a family, 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:29.800 But does that mean that George is guilty of mass murder. 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:32.760 I have to assume there's more evidence to come. That 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:35.000 kind of piggybacks on a point I want to bring up, 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:38.200 which is just how many witnesses there are. As we 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:42.520 have seen, the state is really telling a full story 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:44.720 from start to finish, which includes a lot of people 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.720 that don't on the surface, have anything to do with 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:51.119 the actual night in question. I spoke to legal analysts 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:53.519 and expert Mike Allen about this, and he said that 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.440 the amount of witnesses is completely up to the prosecution. 0:02:56.600 --> 0:03:00.160 They can have three or three hundred, it's all up 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:01.920 to them, and all they have to do is provide 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:05.640 a witness list to the judge and defense during the 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:10.760 discovery process. There has to be some level of jury fatigue, right, 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:14.880 so three hundred witnesses would be pretty extreme if we're 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:18.480 telling a peripheral story. Judge during did have to approve 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:22.120 each witness, so he clearly thinks that something about it 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:24.839 is acceptable enough to be allowed in the courtroom. It's 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.680 just a really interesting spot to be at in the trial. 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.679 Where is it one thing to hear bad things and 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.520 to know that, frankly, the wagoners may have just been 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:37.480 very bad people. Is that enough or do we need 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:41.000 to have more evidence, specifically putting George at the scene. 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:45.240 I'm so curious about how that plays out. The following 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.920 testimony digs deeper into the Wagner clan and also uncovers 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:52.280 testimony that for the first time, shows that George was 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:56.880 in fact in his family stall. Good afternoon, How are 0:03:56.880 --> 0:04:00.640 you good? Can you please stay tr name? And why 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:02.600 don't you go ahead and spell your first name and 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:07.760 spell your last name? Alan Holdron pseudo r E Y 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:12.200 h L d Rien Corey. How old are you be? 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:16.080 Thirty next month? Nine? And can you tell us where 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:25.960 you live? You okay? Corey Holdron was Hannahme Rodin's boyfriend 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:28.640 at the time of her death. When they began dating, 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:31.359 Hannahme was pregnant with her daughter, who she shared with 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:35.760 ex boyfriend Charlie Gilly. Corey Holdron committed to Hannah because 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:38.120 he wanted a family and was in love with Hannah Me. 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:42.000 She's no love with man's in love with her. I mean, 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:45.880 she's the best thing about me really was in our relationship. 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:50.039 We never thought. She helped me through everything. And can 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:53.440 you tell us at the time that you started seeing 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:59.159 her did you have an addiction prob Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:04.720 I'll try and to paint pills. And she laid by 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:07.680 my side, said on the side, through the whole withdrawals 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:11.520 and all the everything, you know what I mean. Nobody 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:14.520 would do that. Nobody does that unless she loves somebody. 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:18.719 And she did got me through at all. And and 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:23.559 you did you make a commitment to her unborn child 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:29.000 as well? Yeah, because well she wasn't with Jake, she 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:32.240 was separated from him, and she said it wasn't his. 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:35.200 She told me who he was whose It was Charlie Gillies, 0:05:35.240 --> 0:05:39.520 which Hannon's brother. I was dying for her family, you 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.360 know what I mean. And I told him that if 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.440 he agrees to step back and just let me, you know, 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:48.320 don't all of us, that I would take care of 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:50.800 her and I would name her. And so I did. 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:54.120 I named her Britain cut of I cut up in 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:56.400 bill upboard. I was the first one to hold her. 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:02.359 So you stayed with her rap for pregnancy. And you 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:05.200 were actually at the hospital when she gave her yeah, 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:13.359 up to the day water actually yeah, yeah, um. And 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:15.320 did you also go to some of her appointments with 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:21.720 her prior to Yeah, According to Corey Holdron, Hannah May 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:24.000 was also a devoted mother to the little girls she 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:29.360 shared with Jake Wagner. This is your great mom. Yeah, 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:33.640 she's really moment and ever senior odor and every senior 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:37.480 hat or nothing like that. Corey continues speaking about when 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:40.160 Jake Wagner brought the toddler he shared with Hannah May 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.720 to see her newborn sister in the hospital. During this visit, 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:46.839 Jake implied that the baby could be his because she 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:49.239 had a toe shaped like him and his family members. 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:54.120 I didn't make a fussing out or anything. He was 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:59.240 just all the different though, dark hair, dark black hair, 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:06.800 like I don't know, it was just different. He's got 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:09.479 a holder and everything like like it was it like 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:11.720 it was his thought ye like like I don't know 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:18.440 he thought it was his maybe Okay, And do you 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:21.440 remember any comments um that he made about any of 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:25.320 the physical characteristics, something about her toe like like something 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:29.080 wages wagoner thing. I don't know what was wrong with it. 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.640 I hadn't seen hithing wrong with it, but commented something 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:38.440 about her toby and a Wagoner thing. Yeah, we're going 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:40.600 to take a break. We'll be back in a moment. 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:51.320 When Corey Holdron learned from Kenneth Roden's daughter Kendra, that 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:54.440 the love of his life, Hanname Rodin, was killed. He 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:59.040 was in shock. I got a It was around eight 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:02.320 maybe it was literally than that, but I learned. My 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:07.560 sisters and me and her wife got in her truck 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:11.840 and we went to Quarter Lmber. Like I kept seeing 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:15.720 like helicopters and like cops and like crazy like passing 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:18.360 us going back the other way. I think nothing of it, 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:20.720 you know what I mean. I've went to the quarter, 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:22.960 we got the Carter Lamber and by the time we 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:26.080 got there and pulled in, Kindred called me and said 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.760 that something happened that I needed to get to her house. Now. 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.920 She went up from telling me really what happened, She said, 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:37.840 they're gone, what's up? Mant? So I had my sister's 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:42.120 wife turn them around and go there. So we went 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.280 down Instead of down thirty two, we went down seven 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:49.840 seventy two the way the backside, you know. And by 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:52.080 time I got on her road, they stopped this right 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:56.200 by her brother's house. And I've seen her grandma and 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:58.559 her grandma to me, she was going all right, just 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:02.000 got of froze, like I didn't and I feel anything 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:08.040 and I understained it. Yeah. Corey explained that he, Hannah May, 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:10.520 and Kendra all went fishing together before the night of 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:13.600 the murders. It was a rainy afternoon and Hannah was 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:16.720 all smiles as she railed in a big catfish, but 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.960 the mood soured when Jake Wagner texted Hannah to see 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:23.920 if he could watch their daughter for the night. Here's 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:29.079 Anteinette Levy, reporter for Law and Crime. Hannah Mae had 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:32.959 just given birth to her newborn daughter and apparently wanted 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.640 to get out of the house, so they had someone 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:41.040 watched the newborn and they were out fishing and Jake 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:44.600 Wagner actually she said, which I thought was pretty stunning. 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:49.520 Kendra said that Jake texted Hannah May and offered to 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:56.120 keep How chilling is that? Here again, Stephanie and Jeff, 0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:00.000 we've heard a lot about Corey Holdron over the years, 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.120 have never personally connected to him. We have reached out 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:06.120 over the years, but respectfully didn't want to push so hard. 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:11.679 So his testimony is so interesting to me. First of all, 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.640 we've always heard that he is so kind and so 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.200 nice and so sweet and was so in love with 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:20.120 Hannah May, so you can only imagine the destruction that 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.240 has come for him thereafter. We've heard over the years 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:26.880 multiple times the story about Jake Wagner visiting Hannah May 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:29.400 in the hospital with her newborn baby, but to hear 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:33.200 it firsthand with Corey Holdron on the stand in the 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:38.920 courtroom is a much different experience. Following Corey Holdron, another 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:43.960 witness came to the stand and offered explosive testimony, this 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:48.520 time very focused on George Wagner, the fourth. It was 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.040 the first and a critically important juncture in the trial 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:56.040 where George's character came under scrutiny. The witness is Tabitha Clayton, 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:59.920 George's ex wife. She had a highly volatile and trema 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.840 of history with the accused murderer. Like Jake and Hannah, 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:06.760 Tabitha and George were embroiled in their own custody battle 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:12.440 over their son. Tabitha and George met when Tabitha's mother 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:15.640 was working for the Wagner matriarch, Frederica at her Flying 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:19.560 w farm. Pierre married in two and twelve, had a 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:22.640 son in the summer of twenty thirteen and lived with Angela, 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:27.240 Jake and Billy Wagner. Tabitha and George ultimately divorced in 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:31.360 twenty fifteen. Tabitha explains how being with George came with 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:33.959 a litany of rules and restrictions that came down from 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:39.800 Angela Wagner life was taxing. Here Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa, 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:43.600 examining Tabitha on the stand, if you could just tell 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:47.000 us with the family dynamics, word they are when you 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:54.440 lived with the Wagner's very strange and controlling. Okay, So 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:59.200 you said previously that you were not allowed to visit 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:04.480 your family and your family was not permitted to visit you, correct? Yes? 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:10.520 And who made those determinations? It was Angela's house, so's hurdles? 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:17.640 And so are you saying that it was Angela's choices? Yes? Okay? 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:24.480 And did George go along with those choices? Yes? And 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:27.920 can you tell us you said Angel's house Angela's rules 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.840 that apply to anything other than just your family coming 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:37.120 and going. It applied basically everything, So tell us about 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:42.640 that cooking, cleaning, laundry, and what do you mean by 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:46.439 that it all had to be done the way that 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:50.040 she wanted it or you have to either redo it 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:53.640 or she'll just do it or something. Angela Wagner had 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:55.760 a ban on certain types of sex that should be 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:59.840 allowed within George and Tabitha's marriage. In contrast, according to 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:04.960 she also crossed boundaries with her son George. According to Tabitha, 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:07.839 every night, Angela Agner would kick Tabitha out of the 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.880 bedroom she shared with George so that Angela could have 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:13.480 some alone time with her son. She would scratch his 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:16.840 back while they caught up on the day. What were 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:20.720 the rules that Angela had for the types of sexual 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:24.320 relations you could engage in with your husband. He wasn't 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.199 allowed to give blow jobs because you'd go to hill 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.920 and you had to only have sex to have children. 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:34.200 And is that something that she said to you? She 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.520 said it to me and George wooth okay when you 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:41.239 were together. Yes. Where would you be when those conversations 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:45.840 would occur, usually at the kitchen table or in the bedroom? 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:51.280 Whose bedroom George's okay? And would you stay in George's 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:54.320 bedroom as long as I was allowed to? Yes? So 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:56.040 when you say, as long as you were allowed to 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:58.840 tell me what you're talking about, well, towards the end 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:01.640 of the night, she would you usually have me leave 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.840 so she could sit there and scratch his back and 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:09.320 talk about the day. So Angela would come into the 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:12.839 room that you shared with her husband, Yes, and she 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.600 would ask you to leave, and then she would scratch 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:19.840 his back and talk about the day. Yes. How frequent 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:24.200 of an occurrence was that every night? And after she 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:27.360 was done with that, would you return to the room. Yes. 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:33.240 After you had your son, where would he sleep most 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.040 of the time? He would sleep with Angela and Billy? 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.920 And again was that your choice? No? Where did you 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.120 want your son to sleep with me in my bed 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:48.800 or at least in the crib that was bought for him? Okay? 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.280 And where was that crib located next to my bed? 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.520 And who made the decision that he would sleep with 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:58.920 Angela and Billy instead of with you? George and Antela? 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.360 Can you tell us, or I guess I should say, 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.920 had you ever shared with George that you had been 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:11.840 sexually abused as a child? I did, but only because 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:16.320 he had found up by somebody else. Can you tell 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:20.120 us what was George's reaction to that? He was mad. 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:23.920 He said he was going to go kill him and 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:26.920 I told him know and I said on him until 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:31.640 he had come down the Wagner's rules tightened around Tabitha 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:35.160 after they learned she had cheeved on George. From Tabitha's 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.680 point of view, her infidelity was a reaction to the 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:41.960 family suffocating way of life. Was there a time when 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:47.080 you were unfaithful to George after you were married? Yes? Okay? 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:49.240 And was it during the time that you were working 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:53.840 at Crystal Springs? Yes? Did George and the rest of 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.720 them we only find out about that. Yes, you ultimately 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:04.560 told them. Yes. And at that point did the restrictions 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:09.000 in your life get even more sitier? Yes? Tell us 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:14.240 what happened then? I had gotten let go for my job. 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:19.000 George took my phone from me and factory he said it, 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:23.280 gave it to his mom. I wasn't allowed to answer 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:28.680 the house phone, or check the mill, or go outside 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:36.280 by myself. And when you informed them of this at 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.440 that time where you pregnant, yes, okay. So you remained 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:43.320 at the home with the Wagner's Yes, And then you 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:49.640 remained there until profimbly a year after your sent was born. Correct. Yes. 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.520 Did you feel when you were there that you could 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.320 parent your child in the way that you wanted to? No, 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:02.640 tell us about that. Every night before we went to bed, 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:06.600 I would be made to go take a nap while 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:10.200 angel would played with Misson. So again, just more of 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.960 the her spending time with your child that you want 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:17.520 to to spend time with. Yes, okay. Did you ever 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:21.159 tell George or have any discussions with him about wanting 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.840 to have your own place and no longer living with 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:28.560 the extended family? Yes? Okay? And what was his response? 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:31.720 That we lived on a farm, so we needed to 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:38.359 live together. He was not interested in moving out. Here's Stephanie. 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:42.800 We met Tabitha's sister and her mom years ago and 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.720 they've always think of this picture about what life was 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.520 like for Tabitha. We've also reached out to her over 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.640 the years. This is a very big moment hearing her 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:55.200 testimony for the first time. Now finally hearing from her. 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:58.919 I mean, imagine she's facing the person who is on trial, 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:02.359 her ex husband. She's going to have to lock eyes 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:05.240 with him and really tell some stories, perhaps for the 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.680 very first time. Again, it asks the question if Angela 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:14.159 Wagner had a very strange relationship with her sons. You know, 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.160 we've always heard this over the years, that she would 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:21.240 cuddle with them and she would alienate the women who 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:25.960 came into their lives aka Tabitha also Hannah may rodin 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:31.440 what does that mean? Does that matter? If George didn't 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:35.440 commit this murders, then none of this matters whatsoever. He 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:39.000 was perhaps a bad husband, but again that doesn't make 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:41.840 him a murderer. But if he did do it and 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:47.119 is convicted, this certainly paints a very clear picture of 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:50.840 a destructive and dysfunctional home. But none of it really 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:55.560 guarantees that George was there, or that George was a 0:18:55.560 --> 0:19:10.160 trigger puller. Let's stop here for another break. One night 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:12.879 thing spun out of control. After Tabitha didn't do the 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:16.439 dishes that Angela had told her to do, George Wagner 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:20.600 turned physically abusive. Tabitha says, this is the first testimony 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:24.520 we've heard about him being violent. Tell us, I'm Tabitha. 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:26.960 We have talked a little bit about how long you 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:31.560 stayed there, what made you leave? When you left, me 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:36.480 and George were in an argument in the slap okay, 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:39.600 And if you can tell us, first of all, do 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:44.320 you recall when that happened? A couple of months after 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:50.160 son's first birthday? Okay? And when was your son born? Again? 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:54.800 Is that July of twenty thirteen, you said, a few 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:59.560 months after his first birthday? Yes, And can you tell 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:05.080 us what led up to that argument? Me not cleaning 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:10.120 the kitchen after Angela had made lunch. After Angela had 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:14.480 done what made lunch? Okay? And so tell us about that. 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:16.080 How did you know you were supposed to do that? 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:19.840 She told me to get it cleaned up while her 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:21.879 and Hannah went to pick up a toy for the kids. 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:27.200 And did you do that? Why not? Because my son 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:28.880 would woke up, so I led with him to take 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:33.720 a nap so he could take a nap. Was your 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:37.600 son already napping at the time that, Yes, Angela asked 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:41.399 you to do that. Okay, And we are where the 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:43.840 rest of the people were, with Jake and George at 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:48.560 that time. They were I think Jake was with Billy 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:54.679 driving the truck and George was building the shed that 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:59.320 is beside the house. Okay, Angela and Hannah come back 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:03.199 and see that it didn't clean up the mess. So 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:09.600 what happens then when me and Angelis said, don't argue, okay, 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:16.639 did you explain to her what had happened? M And 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:23.200 what happened then George didn't like that I was yelling 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:29.159 at his mother? How did you know he didn't like that? 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:33.840 What happened? He came in and started smacking me with 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:37.960 a boat. And we are in the house. Were you 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:43.439 at that time in the kitchen doorway? And what happened? 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:51.119 Then we went to the bedroom and when you see me, 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:55.040 who do you mean? Me and George? And what happened there? 0:21:56.280 --> 0:22:09.879 He abjected your honor or basics? O? Um? What happened 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:15.560 in the bedroom? Um? I was gonna go out and 0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:17.600 sit on the porch so I could calm down and 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:21.119 not be so angry. So you wanted to go outside 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:23.960 to just be by yourself, calmed down and not be 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:27.600 as angry? Yes, okay? Were you permitted to go outside? 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:30.800 You know? How were you not permitted to go outside? 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:34.400 George stood in front of the door and went let 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:37.920 me okay? And what did you do at that point? 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:42.760 I beat him and try to ribe his nuts off. 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:47.040 When you say you bit him? Where did you bite 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:53.280 him on his arm up towards his arm, pitt okay? 0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:56.320 And why did you bite that area at his arm? 0:22:56.440 --> 0:22:58.639 What was he doing at that point? He had his 0:22:58.680 --> 0:23:01.840 door and his arm against the door. Not let me 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:05.280 go through it. Did he let you pass? At that 0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:08.679 point he grew up a hold of these nuts, so 0:23:09.000 --> 0:23:11.560 his arm moved, So that's whenever I ran out the door. 0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:17.000 And then what did you do? I started walking through 0:23:17.040 --> 0:23:21.000 the yard, and then George and Angela came outside to 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:25.159 try to tell me to come back inside. And what 0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:28.600 happened outside? I told him that I was not going 0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:31.640 to go back inside, that I was going to leave, 0:23:32.520 --> 0:23:36.880 and so Angela threw aboard at me and then told 0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:38.960 George that she's going to go inside and get a gun. 0:23:40.440 --> 0:23:43.000 When you say she threw aboard at you? What kind 0:23:43.000 --> 0:23:48.280 of a board? All right too? By four? And both 0:23:48.359 --> 0:23:51.719 Angela and George were outside with you at that point, yes, okay, 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:55.720 and then Angela says she's going to go get a gun. Yes. 0:23:56.640 --> 0:24:04.280 At any point outside, did George have physical contact with you? Yeah, 0:24:05.840 --> 0:24:13.160 before the argument got really worse, we were outside and 0:24:13.800 --> 0:24:16.520 we were arguing, and he told man, I needed to 0:24:16.520 --> 0:24:21.240 stop screaming. Where I was going to smack me, and 0:24:21.280 --> 0:24:24.439 so I screamed out and so he smacked me. And 0:24:24.560 --> 0:24:29.480 where did he smack you in the face? And then 0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:35.640 what was your response to that? And I told him 0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:38.520 that he just signed his divorce papers. That he just 0:24:38.520 --> 0:24:42.800 signed his door papers because he smacked you. Yes. So 0:24:42.840 --> 0:24:45.800 when Angela says she's going to go get a gun, 0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:50.879 what do you do? I continue going to on the 0:24:51.000 --> 0:24:53.960 yard and through the fence, and I hid underneath the 0:24:54.000 --> 0:25:00.959 George's truck. And to your knowledge, where were for angel At? 0:25:02.119 --> 0:25:05.000 I assume they were going in to get whichever gun 0:25:05.000 --> 0:25:12.720 they chose. More on that next time. For more information 0:25:12.760 --> 0:25:16.120 on the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram 0:25:16.160 --> 0:25:20.560 at Katie Underscore Studios. The Piked and Masker is produced 0:25:20.560 --> 0:25:25.240 by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Alan Wieterer, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel 0:25:25.320 --> 0:25:30.479 Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by 0:25:30.520 --> 0:25:35.080 Jeff ta Music by Jared Aston. The Piked and Masker 0:25:35.119 --> 0:25:38.560 is a production of iHeartRadio and Kati Studios. For more 0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:43.280 podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:25:43.400 --> 0:25:45.919 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.