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Speaker 1: I kept seeing like helicopters and cops passingis going back

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Speaker 1: out the way, and I've seen her grandma and her

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Speaker 1: grandma from me. She's gone, all right, he's got froze.

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Speaker 1: Angela ran out of the Peterson Road house to chase

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Speaker 1: Tambaa with a shotgun. Jake and George followed, and Hannah

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Speaker 1: was told by Jake not to leave the house or

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Speaker 1: he would chop off her legs. This is the Piked

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Speaker 1: and Massacre returned to Pike County season four, episode ten.

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Speaker 1: In their own words, I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer

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Speaker 1: at Katie's Studios, along with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane.

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Speaker 1: It's been a revealing, gut wrenching trial thus far. While

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Speaker 1: the jury has heard reams of incriminating evidence against Shake Wagner,

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Speaker 1: we must remember that Jake, who's already pled guilty, is

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Speaker 1: not the one on trial. Thus far, the testimony against

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Speaker 1: George Wagner himself has been far more scant. There's no

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Speaker 1: DNA evidence that puts George at the Rodents' homes on

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Speaker 1: the night of April twenty first, twenty sixteen. There's also

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Speaker 1: no evidence that George was implicated in Jake's custody battle

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Speaker 1: with Hannahmee Rodin. On the other hand, the defense has

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Speaker 1: thus far failed to produce an alibi for where George

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Speaker 1: was during the night of the killings. It's important to

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Speaker 1: note that George Wagner the fourth, along with his father

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Speaker 1: Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, deny any wrongdoing and

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Speaker 1: have pleaded not guilty to all charges. Here's Stephanie and Jeff.

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Speaker 1: It appears that Angi Kinnepper, the special prosecutor, is really

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Speaker 1: telling us a story right now, painting a picture about

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Speaker 1: the lives of the Wagners, how they were incredibly a

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Speaker 1: mesh together, But so far nothing very specific that implicates

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Speaker 1: George specifically to that night. What the prosecution is trying

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Speaker 1: to do is really paint the picture all four of

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Speaker 1: them were in on this together from the start. And look,

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Speaker 1: we've heard a lot of different stories about the Wagner family.

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Speaker 1: They technically operated like a mob or like a cult

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Speaker 1: in that Angela Wagner was very controlling and had a

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Speaker 1: very odd relationship with both of her boys, specifically George.

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Speaker 1: But again, those might paint a messy picture of a family,

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Speaker 1: But does that mean that George is guilty of mass murder.

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Speaker 1: I have to assume there's more evidence to come. That

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Speaker 1: kind of piggybacks on a point I want to bring up,

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Speaker 1: which is just how many witnesses there are. As we

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Speaker 1: have seen, the state is really telling a full story

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Speaker 1: from start to finish, which includes a lot of people

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Speaker 1: that don't on the surface, have anything to do with

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Speaker 1: the actual night in question. I spoke to legal analysts

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Speaker 1: and expert Mike Allen about this, and he said that

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Speaker 1: the amount of witnesses is completely up to the prosecution.

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Speaker 1: They can have three or three hundred, it's all up

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Speaker 1: to them, and all they have to do is provide

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Speaker 1: a witness list to the judge and defense during the

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Speaker 1: discovery process. There has to be some level of jury fatigue, right,

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Speaker 1: So three hundred witnesses would be pretty extreme if we're

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Speaker 1: telling a peripheral story. Judge Deering did have to approve

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Speaker 1: each witness, so he clearly thinks that something about it

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Speaker 1: is acceptable enough to be allowed in the courtroom. It's

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Speaker 1: just a really interesting spot to be at in the trial.

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Speaker 1: Where is it one thing to hear bad things and

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Speaker 1: to know that frankly, the Wagoners may have just been

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Speaker 1: very bad people. Is that enough or do we need

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Speaker 1: to have more evidence, specifically putting George at the scene.

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Speaker 1: I'm so curious about how that plays out. The following

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Speaker 1: testimony digs deeper into the Wagner clan and also uncovers

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Speaker 1: testimony that for the first time, shows that George was

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Speaker 1: in fact in his family's strall. Good afternoon, How are you.

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Speaker 1: It's good? Can you please state your name? And why

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Speaker 1: don't you go ahead and spell your first name and

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Speaker 1: spell your last name? Corey Alan Holdron uh cl r

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Speaker 1: E y h O L d Oran Corey. How old

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Speaker 1: are you be thirty next month? And can you tell

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Speaker 1: us where you live? Pike him, pike him, Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 1: Corey Holdron was Hannah Mee Rhoden's boyfriend at the time

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Speaker 1: of her death. When they began dating, Hannah Mae was

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Speaker 1: pregnant with her daughter, who she shared with ex boyfriend

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Speaker 1: Charlie Gilly. Corey Holdron committed to Hannah because he wanted

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Speaker 1: a family and was in love with Hannah ma She's

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Speaker 1: in love with me. That's a love of her. I mean,

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Speaker 1: she's the best thing I gotten to me really was

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Speaker 1: in our relationship. We never thought she helped me through everything.

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Speaker 1: And can you tell us at the time that you

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Speaker 1: started seeing her, did you have an addiction problem? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: try got it okay, and to paint pills. And she

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Speaker 1: lay by my side, said, on my side through the

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Speaker 1: whole withdrawals and all the everything. You know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: Nobody would do that. Nobody does that unless she loves nobody,

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Speaker 1: and she did going through her at all. And you

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Speaker 1: did you make a commitment to her unborn child as well? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: cause well she wasn't with Jake, she was separated from him,

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Speaker 1: and she said it wasn't his. She told me who

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Speaker 1: he was. Who it was Charlie Gillies, which Handed's brother.

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Speaker 1: I was dying for her family, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: And I told him that if he agrees to step

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Speaker 1: back and just let me, you know, don't bother us,

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Speaker 1: that I would take care of her and I would

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Speaker 1: name her. So I did. I named her. I got

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Speaker 1: him Bill up before. I was the first one to

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Speaker 1: hold her. Okay. So you stay with her rap her pregnancy.

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Speaker 1: And you were actually at the hospital when she gave

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Speaker 1: her yeah, yeah, up to the day. Sure, actually they

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Speaker 1: recall it. Yeah yeah. And did you also go to

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Speaker 1: some of her appointments with her prior to Yeah, all

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Speaker 1: of them. According to Corey Holdron, Hannah May was also

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Speaker 1: a devoted mother to the little girl she shared with

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Speaker 1: Jake Wagner. She's your great mom. Yeah, she's a really

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Speaker 1: good mom. And never seen her yawed or ever seen

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Speaker 1: her hate her or nothing like that. Corey continues speaking

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Speaker 1: about when Jake Wagner brought the toddler he shared with

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Speaker 1: Hannah May to see her newborn sister in the hospital.

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Speaker 1: During this visit, Jake implied that the baby could be

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Speaker 1: his because she had a toe shaped like him and

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Speaker 1: his family members. I didn't make a fuss out or

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Speaker 1: anything his He was just all the different though, dark hair,

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Speaker 1: dark black hair, like I don't know, it's just different.

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Speaker 1: He's got the holder and everything like like he was

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Speaker 1: it like it was his daughter kid. He thought like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, he thought it was his maybe okay.

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Speaker 1: And do you remember any comments that he made about

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Speaker 1: any of the physical characteristics something butter toe like like

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Speaker 1: something goes as wagoner thing. I haven't. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what was on with it. I had seen him on

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Speaker 1: with it, commented something about her Toby and a wagoner thing. Yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we're going to take a break. We'll be back in

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Speaker 1: a moment. When Corey Holtron learned from Kenneth Roden's daughter

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Speaker 1: Kendra that the love of his life, hannahme Rodin, was killed,

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Speaker 1: he was in shock. I got a It was around

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Speaker 1: eight maybe it was literally than that. But I went

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Speaker 1: to my sister's and me and her wife got in

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Speaker 1: her truck and we went to Quarter Lumber. Well like

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Speaker 1: I kept seeing like helicopters and like cops and like

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Speaker 1: crazy like passing this going back the other way. But

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Speaker 1: I think nothing of it, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I went to the quarter, We got to Carter lumber

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Speaker 1: and by the time we got there and called in,

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Speaker 1: Kindred called me and said that something happened that I

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Speaker 1: needed to get to her house now. She would tell

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Speaker 1: me really what happened. She said, they're gone. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what that meant. So I had my sister's wife

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Speaker 1: turn them around go there. So we went down Instead

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Speaker 1: of down thirty two, we went down seven seven seventy

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Speaker 1: two the way the backside, you know. And there's that

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Speaker 1: time I got on her road. They stopped this start

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Speaker 1: by her brother's house, and I seen her grandma, and

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Speaker 1: her grandma told me she was gone. All I just

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Speaker 1: got a froze. I think I didn't and I feel anything.

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Speaker 1: I understand it. Yeah. Corey explained that he, Hannah, Ma,

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Speaker 1: and Kendra all went fishing together before the night of

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Speaker 1: the murders. It was a rainy afternoon and Hannah was

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Speaker 1: all smiles as she reeled in a big catfish, but

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Speaker 1: the mood soured when Jake Wagner texted Hannah to see

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Speaker 1: if he could watch their daughter for the night. Here's

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Speaker 1: Antonette Levy, reporter for Law and Crime. Hannah May had

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Speaker 1: just given birth to her newborn daughter and apparently wanted

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Speaker 1: to get out of the house, so they had someone

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Speaker 1: watch the newborn and they were out fishing and Jake

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Speaker 1: Wagner actually she said, which I thought was pretty stunning.

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Speaker 1: Kendra said that Jake texted Hannah May and offered to

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Speaker 1: keep How chilling is that? Here again, Stephanie and Jeff,

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Speaker 1: We've heard a lot about Corey Holdering over the years

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Speaker 1: and have never personally connected to him. We have reached

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Speaker 1: out over the years, but respectfully didn't want to push

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Speaker 1: so hard. So his testimony is so interesting to me.

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Speaker 1: First of all, we've always heard that he is so

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Speaker 1: kind and so nice, and so sweet and was so

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Speaker 1: in love with Hannah May, so you can only imagine

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Speaker 1: the destruction that has come for him thereafter. We've heard

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Speaker 1: over the years, multiple times the story about Jake Wagner

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Speaker 1: visiting Hannah May in the hospital with her newborn baby,

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Speaker 1: but to hear at firsthand with Corey Holdron on the

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Speaker 1: stand in the courtroom is a much different experience. Following

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Speaker 1: Corey Holdron, another witness came to the stand and offered

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Speaker 1: explosive testimony, this time very focused on George Wagner the

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Speaker 1: fourth It was the first and a critically important juncture

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Speaker 1: in the trial where George's character came under scrutiny. The

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Speaker 1: witness is Tabitha Clayton, George's ex wife. She had a

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Speaker 1: highly volatile and trema out of history with the accused murderer.

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Speaker 1: Like Jake and Hannah, Tabitha and George were embroiled in

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Speaker 1: their own custody battle over their son. Tabitha and George

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Speaker 1: met when Tabitha's mother was working for the Wagner matriarch,

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Speaker 1: Frederica at her Flying w pharm. The pair married in

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Speaker 1: twenty twelve, had a son in the summer of twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 1: and lived with Angela, Jake, and Billy Wagner. Tabitha and

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Speaker 1: George ultimately divorced in twenty fifteen. Tabitha explains how being

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Speaker 1: with George came with a litany of rules and restrictions

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Speaker 1: that came down from Angela Wagner. Life was taxing. Here's

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Speaker 1: Special Prosecutor Angie Caineppa examining Tabitha on the stand. If

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Speaker 1: you could just tell us what the family dynamics were

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Speaker 1: there when you lived with the Wagners. Very strange and controlling. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So you said previously that you were not allowed to

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Speaker 1: visit your family and your family was not permitted to

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Speaker 1: visit you correct? Yes? And who made those determinations? It

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Speaker 1: was Angela's house, So was her rules? And so are

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Speaker 1: you saying that it was Angela's choices? Yes, said okay.

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Speaker 1: And did George go along with those choices? Yes? And

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Speaker 1: can you tell us you said Angela's house, Angela's rules

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Speaker 1: that applied to anything other than just your family coming

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Speaker 1: and going, and it applied basically everything, So tell us

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Speaker 1: about that cooking, cleaning, laundry, and what do you mean

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Speaker 1: by that it all had to be done the way

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Speaker 1: that she wanted it or happy either redo it or

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Speaker 1: she'll just do it herself. Angela Wagner had a ban

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Speaker 1: on certain types of sex that should be allowed within

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Speaker 1: George and Tabitha's marriage. In contrast, according to some, she

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Speaker 1: also crossed boundaries with her son George. According to Tabitha,

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Speaker 1: every night, Angela Wagner would kick Tabitha out of the

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Speaker 1: bedroom she shared with George so that Angela could have

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Speaker 1: some alone time with her son. She would scratch his

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Speaker 1: back while they caught up on the day. What were

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Speaker 1: the rules that Angela had for the types of sexual

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Speaker 1: relations you could engage in with your husband. You wasn't

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Speaker 1: allowed to give blowjobs because you'd go to hell. And

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Speaker 1: I had to only have sex to have children. And

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Speaker 1: is that something that she said to you? She said

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Speaker 1: it to me and George booth okay? When you were together? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Where would you be when there was conversations would occur

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Speaker 1: usually at the kitchen table or in the bedroom? Whose bedroom,

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Speaker 1: Georgie's okay? And would you stay in George's bedroom as

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Speaker 1: long as always allowed to? Yes? So when you say

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Speaker 1: as long as you were allowed to tell me what

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Speaker 1: you're talking about Towards the end of the night, should

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Speaker 1: usually have me leave so she could sit there and

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Speaker 1: scratches back and talk about the day. So Angela would

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Speaker 1: come into the room that you shared with her husband, Yes,

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Speaker 1: and she would ask you to leave, and then she

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Speaker 1: would scratch his back and talk about the day. Yes.

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Speaker 1: How frequent of an occurrence was that every night? And

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Speaker 1: after she was done with that, would you return to

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Speaker 1: the room. Yes. After you had your son, where would

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Speaker 1: he sleep most of the time? He would sleep with

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Speaker 1: Angela and Billy? And again was that your choice? No?

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Speaker 1: Where did you want your son to sleep with me

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Speaker 1: in my bed or at least in the crib that

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Speaker 1: was bought for him? Okay? And where was that crib

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Speaker 1: located next to my bed? And who made the decision

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Speaker 1: that he would sleep with Angela and Billy instead of

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Speaker 1: with you? Georgie and Angela? Can you tell us or

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Speaker 1: I guess I should say, had you ever shared with

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Speaker 1: George that you had been sexually abused as a child?

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Speaker 1: I did, but only because he had found out by

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Speaker 1: somebody else. Can you tell us what was George's reaction

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Speaker 1: to that? He was mad? He said he was going

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Speaker 1: to go kill him, and I told him no, and

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Speaker 1: I said on him until he calmed down. The Wagner's

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Speaker 1: rules tightened around Tabitha after they learned she had cheated

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Speaker 1: on George. From Tabitha's point of view, her infidelity was

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Speaker 1: a reaction to the family suffocating way of life. Was

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Speaker 1: there a time when you were unfaithful to George after

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Speaker 1: you were married? Yes? Okay? And was it during the

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Speaker 1: time that you were working at Crystal Springs? Yes? Did

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Speaker 1: George and the rest of it the only find out

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Speaker 1: about that. Yes. You ultimately told them yes. And at

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Speaker 1: that point did the restrictions in your life get even

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Speaker 1: more severe? Yes? Tell us what happened then? I had

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Speaker 1: gotten let go from my job. George took my phone

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Speaker 1: from me, and Factory said that you gave it to

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Speaker 1: his mom. I wasn't allowed to answer the house phone,

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Speaker 1: or check the mail, or go outside by myself. And

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Speaker 1: when you informed them of this at that time, were

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Speaker 1: you're pregnant? Yes? Okay. So you remained at the home

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Speaker 1: with the Wagoners, Yes, and then you remain there until

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Speaker 1: approximately a year after your son were born. Correct? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Did you feel when you were there if you could

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Speaker 1: parent your child in the way that you wanted to.

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Speaker 1: No tell us about that before we went to bed.

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Speaker 1: I would be made to go take a nap while

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Speaker 1: angel had played with my son. So again, just more

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Speaker 1: of her spending time with your child that you wanted

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Speaker 1: to spend time with. Yes, okay. Did you ever tell

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Speaker 1: George or have any discussions with him about wanting to

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Speaker 1: have your own place and now no longer living with

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Speaker 1: the extended family? Yes? Okay? And what was his response?

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Speaker 1: That we lived on a farm, so we needed to

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Speaker 1: work together. He was not interested in moving out. Here's Stephanie.

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Speaker 1: We met Tabitha's sister and her mom years ago, and

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Speaker 1: they'd always think of this picture about what life was

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Speaker 1: like for Tabitha. We've also reached out to her over

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Speaker 1: the years. This is a very big moment hearing her

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Speaker 1: testimony for the first time, now finally hearing from her.

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Speaker 1: I mean, imagine she's facing the person who is on trial,

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Speaker 1: her ex husband. She's going to have to lock eyes

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Speaker 1: with him and really tells some stories, perhaps for the

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Speaker 1: very first time. Again it asks the question if Angela

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Speaker 1: Wagner had a very strange relationship with her sons. You know,

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Speaker 1: We've always heard this over the years, that she would

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Speaker 1: cuddle with them, and she would alienate the women who

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Speaker 1: came into their lives aka Tabitha. Also Hannah may rodin

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Speaker 1: what does that mean? Does that matter? If George didn't

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Speaker 1: commit this murders, then none of this matters whatsoever. He

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Speaker 1: was perhaps a bad husband, but again that doesn't make

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Speaker 1: him a murderer. But if he did do it and

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Speaker 1: is convicted, this certainly paints a very clear picture of

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Speaker 1: a destructive and dysfunctional home. But none of it really

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Speaker 1: guarantees that George was there, or that George was a

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Speaker 1: trigger puller. Let's stop here for another break. One night,

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Speaker 1: thing spun out of control. After Tabitha didn't do the

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Speaker 1: dishes that Angela had told her to do, George Wagner

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Speaker 1: turned physically abusive. Tabitha says, this is the first testimony

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Speaker 1: we've heard about him being violent. Tell us, Tabitha, we

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Speaker 1: have talked a little bit about how long you stayed there,

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Speaker 1: what made you leave? When you left? Me and George

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Speaker 1: were in an argument in his last week, Okay, And

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Speaker 1: if you can tell us, first of all, do you

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Speaker 1: recall when that happened? A couple of months after my

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Speaker 1: son's first birthday? Okay? And when was your son born again?

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Speaker 1: Was that July of twenty thirteen, you said, a few

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Speaker 1: months after his first birthday? Yes, okay? And can you

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Speaker 1: tell us what led up to that argument? Me not

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Speaker 1: cleaning the kitchen after Angela had made lunch. After Angela

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Speaker 1: had done what made lunch? Okay? And so tell us

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Speaker 1: about that. How did you know you were supposed to

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Speaker 1: do that? She told me to get it cleaned up

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Speaker 1: while her and Hannah went to pick up a toy

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Speaker 1: for the kids. And did you do that? No? Why not?

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Speaker 1: Because my son had woke up, so I led with

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Speaker 1: him to take a nap so he could take nap. Okay?

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Speaker 1: Was your son already napping at the time that Angela

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Speaker 1: asked you to do that? Okay? And we are where

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Speaker 1: the rest of the people were with Jake and George

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Speaker 1: at that time? They were I think Jake was with

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Speaker 1: Billy driving the truck and George was building the shed

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Speaker 1: that is beside the house. Okay, Angela and Hannah come

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Speaker 1: back and see that I didn't clean up the mess.

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Speaker 1: So what happens then? Then me and Angela stood, don't argue? Okay,

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Speaker 1: did you explain to her what had happened? Yes, And

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Speaker 1: what happened then? George didn't like that I was yelling

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Speaker 1: at his mother? How did you know he didn't like that?

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Speaker 1: What happened? He came in and started smacking me with

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Speaker 1: a belt. And we are in the house where you

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Speaker 1: at that time, in the kitchen doorway, And what happened?

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Speaker 1: Then we went to the bedroom and when you see me,

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Speaker 1: who do you mean? Me and George? Okay? And what

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Speaker 1: happened there? He abjected your honor or another rejection? Start

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Speaker 1: basis is overall what happened in the bedroom. I was

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Speaker 1: gonna go out and sit on the porch so I

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Speaker 1: could calm down and not be so angry. So you

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Speaker 1: wanted to go outside to just be by yourself, calm

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Speaker 1: down and not be as angry? Yes, okay? Were you

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Speaker 1: permitted to go outside? How were you not permitted to

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Speaker 1: go outside? George stood in front of the door. Nothing

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Speaker 1: let me okay? And what did you do at that point?

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Speaker 1: I bet him and try to rob his nuts off. Okay.

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Speaker 1: When you say you bit him? Where did you bite

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Speaker 1: him on his arm? Up towards his arm? Put? Okay?

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Speaker 1: And why did you bite that area his arm? What

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Speaker 1: was he doing at that point? He had his door,

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Speaker 1: his arm against the door, not let me go through it? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Did he let you pass? At that point? You grabbed

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Speaker 1: ahold of his nuts, so his arm moved. So that's

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Speaker 1: whenever I ran out the door. And then what did

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Speaker 1: you do? I started walking through the yard, and then

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Speaker 1: George and Angela came outside to try to tell me

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Speaker 1: to come back inside. And what happened outside? I told

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Speaker 1: him that I was not going to go back inside,

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Speaker 1: that I was going to leave, and so Angela threw

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Speaker 1: a board at me and then told George that she's

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Speaker 1: going to go outside and get a gun. When you

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Speaker 1: say she threw a board at you? What kind of

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Speaker 1: a board? I to bought four? And both Angela and

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Speaker 1: George were outside with you at that point, yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: and then Angela says she's going to go get a gun. Yes.

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Speaker 1: At any point outside, did George have physical contact with you? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Before the argument got really worse, we were outside and

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Speaker 1: we were arguing, and he told me I needed to

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Speaker 1: stop screaming where I was going to smack me, and

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Speaker 1: so I screamed louder, and so he smacked me and

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Speaker 1: where did he smack you in the face? And then

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Speaker 1: what was your response to that? And I told him

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Speaker 1: that he just signed his horse papers, that he just

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Speaker 1: signed his papers because he smacked you. Yes. So when

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Speaker 1: Angela says she's going to go get a guide, what

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Speaker 1: do you do? I continue going the yard and through

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Speaker 1: the fence and I head underneath the George's truck. And

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Speaker 1: to your knowledge, where were angel atte? I assume they

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Speaker 1: were going in to get whichever gum they chose. More

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Speaker 1: on that next time. For more information on the case

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Speaker 1: and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at KAT Underscore Studios.

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Speaker 1: The Pikedon Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane,

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Speaker 1: Alan Wheer, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong.

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Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by Jeff toa music by Jared Aston.

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Speaker 1: The piked In Masker is a production of iHeart Radio

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Speaker 1: and KAT Studios. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit

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Speaker 1: the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

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Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. Please welcome mar Fite County Dogwoo Festival.

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Speaker 1: Queen Lord, I just thank you for bringing us all

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Speaker 1: together as a community. Okay, hard all dad, all over

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Speaker 1: the house? Who could have killed eight family members in

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Speaker 1: one nile. I lost my best friends and I will

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Speaker 1: never be the same because of that day. Four crime scenes,

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Speaker 1: no DNA, no witnesses. The killer left those children laying

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Speaker 1: in their mother's blood. The word that comes to mind

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Speaker 1: is overkilled. Who was the master mind, I'm telling you,

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Speaker 1: is a framer. I'm not fitting in prisons. One thing

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Speaker 1: I learn. The smaller the town, the bigger the sacreds.

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Speaker 1: Be sure to watch our upcoming documentary, The Pike County Murders,

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Speaker 1: a family massacre, premiering on NBC Universal's Oxygen Network and

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Speaker 1: also streaming on Peacock this Thanksgiving Day weekend November twenty

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Speaker 1: fourth and November twenty fifth. Please check your local listings,

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Speaker 1: and our hearts are with the Rodents and the Gilly families.