1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace busted. Brian Coburger's casual, casual 2 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: conversation with a clerk caught on camera, a conversation about 3 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: the murders. He just committed, I'm Nancy Grace. This is 4 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with. 5 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 2: Us this morning. 6 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 3: No one was waking up. 7 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 2: I don't answering, but the kind of at least right 8 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 2: out and. 9 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: Brian Coburger caught on camera busted having a very very 10 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: lighthearted and casual conversation with the d m V clerk, 11 00:00:55,480 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: including about the murders. He just committed. I notice so 12 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: much nonverbal communication, which I would love to point out 13 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: to a jury, but the prosecutor in that jurisdiction was 14 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: too weak, spineless, gutless to take this thing to trial. 15 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: So we could finally hear the facts and the families 16 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,559 Speaker 1: can note the truth, even if it's a terrible truth, 17 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: the truth about what happened to their children. I noticed 18 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: that as he's talking, he's like looking, who does that? 19 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: Why is he doing that? Obviously he's looking around to 20 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: see if anybody's noticed him. He's in a government office. 21 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: Is he worried he's going to be apprehended. Somehow he's 22 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: looking on he's wearing it looks like black plastic gloves. 23 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: Does nobody notice that? Look at this guy? What black 24 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: plastic gloves inside? Anyway, There's so much more, but let's 25 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: just get right down to it. Let's watch Brian Koberger 26 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: in his casual convot, including about the murders he just committed. 27 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 2: So I'm going pretty good. Definitely need to get my 28 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 2: license change. Okay, we should be able to hold that. 29 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 4: No, I mean you have to have it in watching 30 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 4: the state, but you don't have to prove with that. 31 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 2: I do need to know the exact mile there are 32 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 2: in a car right now? Okay, perfect? 33 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 5: Okay, so you just have to ride that exact mileage 34 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 5: right here with no tens. 35 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 6: Check the boxes's actual, the same date, and then you'll 36 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 6: sign and you're direct on the bottom line there. 37 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: You know, when I have told a lie, typically to 38 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: my husband, I get hot all over. I feel bad. 39 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: I almost always go back and correct it and tell 40 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: the truth, unless it's something like, no, I'm too short, 41 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: I can't see your ball spot. Just I can't take it. 42 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: Do you see this guy straight out to doctor Bethany 43 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: Marshall joining US renowned psychoalyst out of the LA jurisdiction, 44 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: the author of deal Breaker. You can see her on 45 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: Bravo and on Peacock, and you can find her at 46 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: Dodor Bethany Marshall dot com Doctor Bethany, I get hot 47 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: all over and I imagine I turn red and I 48 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: can't live with the telling of the lie. It eats 49 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: me up. Do you see this guy? 50 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: I do, Nancy. 51 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 7: And what's interesting is a lot of the searches on 52 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 7: his phone were under psychopathic paranoia, which suggests that there 53 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 7: was a part of his personality that was quite paranoid 54 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 7: about getting caught. On the other hand, after the crime, 55 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 7: there were many many searches about the Moscow murders, so 56 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 7: he was fascinated and reliving. I think at this point 57 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 7: in the DMV he felt it was a safe environment, 58 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 7: there's no police around. He chatted for thirteen minutes with 59 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 7: this woman, and I think, Nancy, that he was reliving 60 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 7: the glory of the crime. He's proud of himself. 61 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: Again. 62 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: If you think about. 63 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 7: What's on that phone that was forensically searched, there was 64 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 7: a lot of flexing of muscles, a lot of preoccupation 65 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 7: with self. He loved himself. He loved looking in the 66 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 7: mirror and finding somebody at the DMB who would listen 67 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 7: to him. I think that put him in. 68 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 1: A back canny. Do you see what you just did? 69 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: Look at your monitor. You say the word muscles, and 70 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: the control room can't wait to show Brian Coberger without 71 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: his shirt on. I've seen that enough. Thank you take 72 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: please take that down. Okay, What if anything does that mean? 73 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: And how are you kin still there? What does that 74 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 1: have to do with what we're looking at today? Well, 75 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: it means that he's why are you talking about him 76 00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: flexing muscles? 77 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 7: Because he's preoccupied with himself. He loves himself. He's only 78 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 7: attached to himself, and anybody who will give him attention, 79 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 7: he'll suck up the time. There's probably people behind him 80 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 7: at the DMB waiting, and he talks for thirteen minutes, Nancy. 81 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 7: He loves himself and he loves what he did, and 82 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 7: he wants to talk about it. He might have even 83 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 7: been aroused or sexually excited while he was talking about it. 84 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 7: Since I believe it was a sexually motivated crime, it 85 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 7: could have been almost like a masturbatory experience, like going 86 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 7: over the details he might also have been trying to 87 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 7: convince himself that nobody really knew that he was a perpetrator, 88 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 7: So trying to get clues from the clerk about what 89 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 7: she might have read or what people you know, wered 90 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,239 Speaker 7: on the street was so to speak, Yeah. 91 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: That's very insightful because I've seen a lot of killers 92 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: before they're caught asking hey, what do you think? What 93 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: do you think about that? Have you heard about this? 94 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: Have you heard about that? And they seem to relish 95 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: of it and go so far as to say it's 96 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: a masturbatory endeavor. But I would say that they enjoy 97 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: reliving it. And you may be right. I just don't 98 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: want to think about Brian Coberger's and other parts right now. 99 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: But straight out to Hermonia Rodriguez plea investigative journalist joining 100 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: us tonight, Armania, thank you for being with us. Why 101 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: is he getting his tag changed out? 102 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 8: He actually had very convenient timing Brian Koberger because within 103 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 8: days of the murder, both his actual license was also 104 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 8: expiring and his registration. So he went in there and 105 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 8: did it all together and switched his plate from a 106 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 8: Pennsylvania one, which was the one he had on when 107 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 8: he committed the murders to a Washington State one and 108 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 8: that's part of what we know by now. He did 109 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 8: to cover his tracks as well as wearing those bulky 110 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 8: gloves wherever he went. 111 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: Straight out to Joseph Scott Morgan joining US professor forensic 112 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on 113 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: Amazon and star of a hit Knew PODCA cast Body 114 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, thanks for being 115 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: with us tonight, Joe Scott. Timing, timing, timing, timing, is 116 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: everything changing out his tag? 117 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 2: Wow? 118 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: And just in case someone got the tag the night 119 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: of the murders, he's there, bright and nearly getting rid 120 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: of that tag. 121 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 9: Yeah, he is. And again going to Hermione's comment, it 122 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 9: is a matter of convenience right now, how much more 123 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 9: time did he have in order to do this and 124 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 9: why hadn't he done it in days prior to that? 125 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 9: And so from a circumstantial standpoint, you begin to think about, 126 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 9: I wonder what his underlying rationale was for doing this, 127 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 9: and of course we'll never really know, but he shows 128 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 9: up and it is very very convenient for him to 129 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 9: do this. Also, you know he's inbolving in order to 130 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 9: do this, to walk in and Hey, that car that 131 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 9: he left the scene in, it's right outside that door, Nancy, 132 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 9: right outside that door. You know what I'm thinking about 133 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 9: right now? I'm thinking about what's the status of the 134 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 9: interior of this car right now as it's right outside 135 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 9: that door. I want to know had he already begun 136 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 9: to clean this thing up? You know, early on I'd 137 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 9: said that this car was going to be a rolling 138 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 9: crime scene. And he held onto that car for a 139 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 9: protracted period of time because he was never caught up 140 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 9: to you know, had he begun to clean that car? 141 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 9: Here he is walking from the outside in and he's 142 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 9: looking back over his shoulder, you know, And now he's 143 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 9: going to change the plates out and somehow that's going 144 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 9: to put people off at that point in time, put 145 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 9: them off, the scent, potentially every little thing that he 146 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 9: can do. Did he still have the knife at this point, Nancy? 147 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 9: Is it out in the car? I don't know. 148 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: You're seeing shots now, Please keep playing them. Brian Kiberger's 149 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: white Elantra The Night of the murders. And you know 150 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: another thing, you know, I just want to keep looking 151 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: at this video another thing, Joe Scott Morgan, when I 152 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: visited his apartment in Pullman, about eleven minutes away from 153 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:04,599 Speaker 1: the murder scene, I looked for or cameras cameras in 154 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: his parking lot there where he lived. I would love 155 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: to find out if those cameras caught him cleaning out 156 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: his car the way that he was caught under surveillance, 157 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: not by cameras but by actual l law enforcement, cleaning 158 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: out his car, just in a weird way, cleaning it 159 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: and cleaning it and cleaning it obsessively outside his parents' 160 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: home in the Pocono's. I guarantee you he did the 161 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: same thing there in Pullman, outside his apartment, and he 162 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: has a big parking there's a big parking lot outside 163 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: of his apartment, a communal parking lot. 164 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 9: Yeah. 165 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: And I guarantee you there are witnesses to him cleaning 166 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: out his car. 167 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm thinking about the silent witness You talked about 168 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 9: the CCTV potential here, Nancy. Can you imagine if he 169 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 9: is seen, if they have video captured, can you imagine 170 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 9: him actually taking backs after he's cleaned and putting them 171 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:03,959 Speaker 9: in the car, and then he's going to convey them 172 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 9: somewhere else. You know, one of the big questions is 173 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 9: what happened to all of the stuff. What happened to 174 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 9: all of these potential items, particularly from a DNA standpoint, 175 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 9: from a blood evidence standpoint, that could tie him back 176 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 9: to this particular savage massacre. Had they been dumped off 177 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 9: in some dumpster that's far away from the apartment complex. 178 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 9: Did he take that much care? And here's something else, 179 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 9: you know, I work at a university, Nancy. It's like 180 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 9: a little city. Okay, it's vast. You've got dumpsters all 181 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 9: over the place. What if he went back onto campus 182 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 9: there in Pullman and just started throwing stuff away in 183 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 9: the random dumpsters. No one is going to be any 184 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 9: the wiser. However, I can tell you this about universities. 185 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 9: They've got CCTV everywhere. Okay, you're always being watched. I 186 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 9: really wonder if there's any video captures there from the 187 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 9: university parking lot going to dumpsters and putting stuff in 188 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 9: the dumpsters. There at Washington State. 189 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, guys busted caught on video. 190 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: You're hearing doctor Bethany and Harmonio Rodriguez and Joseph Scott 191 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 1: Morgan describing could it would have should have all the 192 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: evidence the prosecutor had to get the death penalty, but no, 193 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: a weak plea. I would venture to guess that that 194 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: prosecutor is the weak link in the judicial system, in 195 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: the justice system. That said, wait till you hear the 196 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: rest of his very casual conversation with the d m 197 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: V clerk, including about the murders. He just committed what. 198 00:11:47,160 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 5: Color the vehicle? And you have to know that the 199 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 5: better package? Yeah? Did they not have that one? I 200 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 5: couldn't find Okay, Yeah, shortage. I've done a couple of 201 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 5: people that have like they wanted to wait a year 202 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 5: for we delivered because they just. 203 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 2: Didn't have it until a year later. 204 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 5: Yeah. 205 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, those are the most popular and they're still bad. 206 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 10: Yeah. 207 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 2: I am, Well, I'm from the Bear. 208 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 5: I'm hoping I'm actually from. 209 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 2: Oh Okay hoping. You guys don't get I hope we do. So, Uh, 210 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 2: you're from New York. How are you liking it over here? 211 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 10: Actually? 212 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 2: Oh, you're from Pennsylvania. Oh yeah, and then you were Yeah, 213 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 2: family is from brook So that's okay, that's fair. 214 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean moving up to the Mayy and my 215 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 4: grandma and my dad were huge Giants said some like 216 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 4: falling in the family line. 217 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: I'm just I don't even know what to say. There 218 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 1: is Brian Coburger with blood probably still under his fingernails, 219 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: talking about are you a Giants fan? You know? To 220 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: Phillip D. Bay joining us uh veteran trial lawyer has 221 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: tried a lot of cases LA County Public Defender's Office. 222 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: And you know what, the Public Defender's Office gets a 223 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: lot of grief because people think they're free. They get 224 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: paid by the government. They try more cases than practically 225 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: any other defense attorney. They take all they have to take, 226 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: all the cases nobody else wants. In other words, they 227 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: get a lot of trial experience, just like prosecutors do. 228 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: You can't turn it down. It's yours, whether you want 229 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: it or not. That said debate, I'm not asking you 230 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: to reveal any client confidence. Of course, I wouldn't even 231 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 1: waste my breath on that. But in all of your 232 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: years in court, have you ever known somebody who was 233 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: guilty and you look back and they're sitting across the 234 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: table talking to you about sports and food and restaurants 235 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: and activities and hobbies, and they're a stone cold killer. 236 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: It's really hard to reconcile. 237 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 11: That not for me, because I look at it from 238 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 11: a legal standpoint. I don't sit there and stand in 239 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 11: judgment of my client. It's almost like a doctor in 240 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 11: the er or in the ICU at a hospital who 241 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 11: has to treat a gang banger who just sprayed up 242 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 11: a neighborhood and he got shot back, and now he's 243 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 11: in the hospital. The doctors still have a hipocratic oath 244 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 11: to first do no harm and save the young man's life. 245 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 11: That's what we do in a legal context. We don't 246 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 11: stand in judgment of our clients, and we do whatever 247 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 11: we can to protect their legal interests. I don't have 248 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 11: to like them. 249 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: Did I ask you if you judge them? Did I know? 250 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: I did not ask you if you judge them. I 251 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: don't judge my witnesses. They are what they are. I 252 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: take them as they come. I asked you, Did it 253 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: ever dawn on you when you're having a casual convo 254 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: with a stone cold killer. That's kind of weird. That 255 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: never hit you. 256 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 11: Not really, maybe in the first ten years. 257 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: Okay, cut is Mike right now, because that's total bs lie. 258 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany. He would have to be do they would 259 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: have to be, have to have the emotions of like 260 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: a frog. You ever held a frog? Probably not? Have 261 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: you ever held a frog and it looks at you 262 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: and it blinks and it has no emotion. It's cold blooded, right, 263 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: it feels nothing that was bs. Any thinking person would 264 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: get skithed out. And I know that's not one of 265 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: your psychological terms. When you know you've been sitting there 266 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: talking to a stone cold killer. I don't mean a 267 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: person that gets angry in the heat of the moment 268 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: pulls the trigger. That's bad enough, But I mean stone 269 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: cold sets out to murder somebody, and in this case 270 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: for no reason, no anger, no revenge, no sex motive, 271 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: no theft motive. Not that that murders any less horrible. 272 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:43,239 Speaker 1: But my point is carrying on a conversation, a normal conversation, 273 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: and the whole time this guy could just reach over 274 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: with a strap razor and slit youer throat and it 275 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: be fine with it. 276 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 7: I do wonder, Nancy, when I see patients like that, 277 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 7: where I know they've committed a crime, or worse yet, 278 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 7: they've come to therapy to actually gain some help in 279 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 7: sealing the crime, or they're paranoid because they're about to 280 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 7: be caught. I do have that even in my Beverly 281 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 7: Hills office. And what's interesting is that their presentation is 282 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 7: so smooth on the surface, and yet I know and 283 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 7: they know I know something is going on. But furthermore, 284 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 7: when you look at Coburger's affect, his emotions, the way 285 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 7: he's talking to this woman, he is a really strange, 286 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 7: strange guy. There's no picture I've ever seen of him 287 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 7: where he looks normal, and anybody sitting in front of 288 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 7: him is going to have to wonder what the heck 289 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 7: is going on. But Nancy, there's something more. The digital evidence. 290 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 7: The investigators that went through his phone determined what determined 291 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 7: that he was quite obsessive and he had no friends 292 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 7: other than his parents. So I believe that he's flirting 293 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 7: with this woman at the DMV because that's the only 294 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 7: person he can kind of lock down into a conversation 295 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 7: because it's the DMV, right, I mean, they're there to 296 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 7: serve their customers dance. Did you know he called his 297 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 7: mother at five o'clock every single morning, Then he called 298 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 7: his parents again to fall asleep. He almost stalked and 299 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 7: pestered his parents. He would text his mother saying five 300 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 7: o'clock question mark. She would text back five point thirty 301 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 7: exclamation mark, exclamation mark like, don't call me so early 302 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 7: in the morning. So, you know, since they were his 303 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 7: only relationships, can you imagine he has the thirteen minutes 304 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 7: with this woman at the DNV. She's not sitting in 305 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 7: a bar with a drink, she knows she's safe, she 306 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 7: knows she's behind the counter, so she's talking sports. And 307 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 7: that's probably a very new experience for him, given the 308 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 7: fact that he probably creeped women out everywhere he went. 309 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, why will nobody answer my question? Why 310 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: I don't get it? It's a simple question. Now, I'm 311 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 1: going to try with you. Pretty soon. I'll be going 312 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: to Hermania Rodriguez. She's a reporter and may not have 313 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: had this experience, but I think you have. Have you 314 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:07,239 Speaker 1: ever sat down with a stone cold killer and, in 315 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: a retrospect look back and went he could just slip 316 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: my throat. I thought about it. I don't think about 317 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: it in the moment, like when I'm trumping through a 318 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: housing project trying to find a witness. When I'm sitting 319 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: across a table from a killer and we're talking about him, 320 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: rolling over on his co defendant killer. It's later that 321 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: I let I'm in the moment and I can't afford 322 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: to think about anything other than what I'm doing. But later, 323 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: if you allow yourself to think about it, how can 324 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: someone be apparently so normal yet we know what he 325 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: just did, We know what he just did. I mean, 326 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: is nobody remembering what happened to Kelly? Kelly going solve this? 327 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: He hit her so hard and beat her so hard, 328 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: and not her teeth out, just stabbing her in the face, 329 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: in the face, in the face, the same thing to Maddie. 330 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: Just horrible, horrible desecration of their bodies and their beauty. 331 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: Not happy until the place was covered in blood. And 332 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: here he is chatting up at D and V Are 333 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 1: you a Giants fan? My rear end. 334 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 9: That's the brutality of it, because the thing about it 335 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 9: is he can slip in and out of this world 336 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 9: that we exist in, even after having participated in this 337 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 9: kind of event. And yeah, in answer to your question, 338 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 9: when as an investigator, when you're talking to somebody, you're 339 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 9: in that moment you're trying to elicit information from them. 340 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 9: And I have had those moments, Nancy, where I go 341 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 9: to a very dark place afterwards, when I have time 342 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,919 Speaker 9: to think about who I was just in dwelling the 343 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 9: same space with who I was just breathing the same oxygen, 344 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 9: and I think about what kind of horror that they 345 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 9: have just committed, maybe multiple times over and over again, 346 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 9: but yet I'm trying to get information out of them. 347 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 9: And so yeah, it's a really dark place to go to. 348 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 9: But you see this kind of psychopathy with him. And 349 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,439 Speaker 9: again I'm getting into doctor Bethany's face. I apologize for that, 350 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 9: but you have to admit when you see these images 351 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 9: from the scene, Nancy, and I know you have as 352 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 9: well as I have as well, this place is blood saturated, 353 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 9: and this kind of drives home the point of what 354 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 9: an animalistic event this was at the scene, and that 355 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 9: he can flip the switch turning on and off, and 356 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 9: you know, he's got that kind of I don't know 357 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 9: why it looks like do you remember back in the 358 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 9: sixties when they had the chimpanzees that would smile blankly, 359 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 9: you know, they had those that chimpanzee smile. That's what 360 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 9: he looks at like, you know, the dead eyes kind 361 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 9: of the fake smile, looking back and forth and I 362 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 9: think that that might be what doctor Bethany's talking about, 363 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 9: where it's just very very dark. There's a disconnect here 364 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 9: where he has no remorse whatsoever. He has no certainly 365 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 9: had no compassion at that moment, Tom, And here we 366 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 9: are dangling in the wind all of this time. Later 367 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,120 Speaker 9: they topped this plea on this guy and he never 368 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 9: alcued in. 369 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:30,640 Speaker 1: Any crime stories with Nancy Gray. 370 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,360 Speaker 3: One of our one of the roommates has passed out 371 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 3: and she was drunk last night and shn wake me up. 372 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 2: Okay. 373 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 1: Oh, and they saw some man in their house as night. 374 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 10: Yeah, I just been. 375 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 12: Are you with the patient? 376 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 2: Okay? 377 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 3: I need someone to keep the phone, stop passing it. 378 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: Around, and I just tell you what happened very much. 379 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 1: What is going on currently as someone passed out right now? 380 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 1: I don't really know what pretty much Thorian. 381 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 3: Okay, well, I need to know what's going on right now. 382 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 2: If someone has passed out, can you find that out? 383 00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll come come on with musical check. 384 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 9: We have to one of the galasy yell and something. 385 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 10: There's somebody in the house or somebody When I. 386 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 3: Heard you coming, you say as a signarectus. 387 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:13,120 Speaker 10: They may have never. 388 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: Against We can only wonder how a jury would have 389 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: reacted seeing this video. Now, the defense would try to 390 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 1: stop it at trial, claiming it was irrelevant, which is 391 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 1: one of the weakest objections you can raise a trial. Why, 392 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: because it doesn't hold anything on appeal. What do I 393 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: mean by that? If you make an objection at trial 394 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: and you say objection irrelevant, you're not preserving anything for 395 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: appellate review. That does not qualify as an appealable error. 396 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: You have to say something like objection, inflammatory objection, hearsay objection. 397 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: It's not the highest and best evidence. You have to 398 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: have a real foundation, not just interrupting the other lawyer's 399 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: flow of questioning. When somebody when a defense attorney or 400 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 1: prosecutor objection irrelevant, it's usually overruled. Once in a while, 401 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: you might you might get a sustain But the defense 402 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: would try to stop this as being irrelevant because they 403 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: don't want the jury to see his cold and dupliculous, 404 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: really nature that he can be a killer and act 405 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: like a normal guy like nothing ever happened, which totally 406 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: would freak the jury out. But the prosecutor would raise 407 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: one day respond that the jury can consider evidence before 408 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:50,360 Speaker 1: during and after the crime, so this would have been 409 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: allowed at trial, this would be in front of the jury. 410 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: And I'm very curious to know what you think as 411 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: you are watching Brian Coburger, a stone cold killer of 412 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: defenseless co eds, half asleep with a knife a k bar, 413 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: just imagine him going from room to room, slaughtering, slaughtering 414 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: those four students and liking it, then turning up at 415 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: the d m V to get a new license and 416 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:38,239 Speaker 1: a new tag and carrying on completely normal conversation. You 417 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: hear the word, the phraseology, the description doctor Jekyll, mister 418 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: Hyde a lot, this is him. Let's watch. 419 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 2: Or I am I am origin. 420 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, and I like living up here much better 421 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 5: than already. 422 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,719 Speaker 2: You have the order from when you bought it. Yeah, 423 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,120 Speaker 2: he's different, right. 424 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 4: Because when I remember, I like, and I would say, 425 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 4: but the kind. 426 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 2: Of right now. 427 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: She says, I like how small quiet, and I would 428 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: say safe. But the whole Moscow thing kind of makes 429 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: it feel a little less safe. And at that point, 430 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: Harmonia Rodriguez Palleo, investigative journalist, he clams up. He doesn't 431 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 1: say anything, He just stands there, goes quiet. Did you 432 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 1: notice that. 433 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 12: It's so creepy and shocking considering how he was acting 434 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 12: just seconds before, one could even argue they were a 435 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 12: little bit of flirting, just talking about sports, how nice 436 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 12: the area is until that moment, and it's truly chilling 437 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 12: because the moment she mentions the. 438 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 8: Murders, Brian Coberger's mask sort of slips and he's all 439 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 8: of a sudden not so talkative and just given one 440 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 8: word answers. It's really fascinating to watch that mask. 441 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 1: Fall off, and that doctor Bethany Marshall is what we 442 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: made by nonverbal communication. He immediately switches the conversation to 443 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,360 Speaker 1: I think the weather. 444 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 7: Yes, Nancy. Sociopaths where what I've called so many times 445 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 7: the mask of sanity. It's not my term, it's a 446 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 7: research term, and that means that they can act and 447 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 7: pass as normal in society even though there's so much 448 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 7: going on underneath the surface. And in fact, with Coburger, 449 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 7: one of the things we know was going on beneath 450 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 7: the surface was that most of the searches on his 451 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 7: phone were for non con sexual sex pornography. There was 452 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 7: no search for normal pornography. It was all non consensual 453 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 7: whatever that means. So he's in this situation where the 454 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 7: mask starts to slip just a little bit because she 455 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 7: brought it up, and he clams up. I think he's thinking, 456 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,360 Speaker 7: you know, he's an obsessive guy. He's probably going through 457 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 7: his mind wondering what she knows, what everybody else knows. 458 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 7: And also he doesn't have the power in that situation. 459 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 7: Have you ever been to the TMV. 460 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: They have the power. You don't have the power. 461 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 7: So he's in a situation where he has to like 462 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 7: play nice, follow the rules, get his tags. He can't intimidate, threaten, 463 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 7: or stand over her like he did all the university 464 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 7: students when he was a teacher's aide, right, or the 465 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 7: women at the bars where he was so creepy and 466 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 7: standing over them that the bartenders and the bar owners 467 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 7: had to ask him to leave. No, this is the DMV. 468 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 7: He has to act and pass as normal. But even there, Nancy, 469 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 7: it's hard for him to do that. That's what we 470 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 7: see when he clams up. And of course the big 471 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 7: Tael is the big rubber gloves. 472 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: I was just looking at everyone else there. Nobody else 473 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: is wearing gloves to you. Philip Dubay, veteran trial lawyer 474 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: joining us out of the la jurisdiction, Philip, how would 475 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: you keep the jury from seeing this video? 476 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 11: To be honest with you, I don't have a problem 477 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 11: with him seeing it. You got to remember the time 478 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 11: of year when was this December. It's probably colder than 479 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 11: an arctic outhouse there, and the man can put some 480 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 11: gloves on a key form. He's just coming in from 481 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 11: the outdoors, so people who are working there behind the 482 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 11: counter probably have a space heater and some warmth going on. 483 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 11: So I think that would be unfair to judge him 484 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 11: based on that. Now, when she does bring up the 485 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 11: moscow for a murder, he does get a little skittish. 486 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 11: He starts shipping his weight around, he goes from one 487 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 11: foot to the next, and he's looking a little paranoid, 488 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 11: obsessive and frank little scared. But he manages to still 489 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 11: engage in the pleasantries in the small talk to throw 490 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 11: anybody and everybody off the scent. So I don't find 491 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 11: anything unusual about this. And moreover, one final point. Remember 492 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 11: he is a non resident of Washington, so they have 493 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 11: what's called the thirty and one hundred and eighty three 494 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 11: day rule, meaning that he's got to get his tags 495 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,239 Speaker 11: and his plates current within the thirty day and one 496 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 11: hundred and eighty three day period, especially if he has 497 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 11: a job. Otherwise he can be sighted and fined and 498 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 11: maybe even do some jail time and have his car 499 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 11: impounded and stored. 500 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: Okay, thank you for the dissertation on the traffic law 501 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: to just Scott Morgan so to hear debate, tell it 502 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: he's absolutely fine. If his client is having a convo 503 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: and it's caught on tape and the woman says, I'm 504 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: really scared of the you know, after the Moscow, the 505 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: Moscow murders, and their client goes, isn't the weather awesome? 506 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: I love the sun. How do you feel about the sun? 507 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: That doesn't bother you? 508 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 9: Of course it would, particularly now in hindsight, knowing what 509 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 9: we know from this perspective, what had just occurred. Just 510 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 9: you know, well, let's break it down. Within hours of 511 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 9: preceding him walking into this place, you know, they're still 512 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 9: out at the scene at this point. Nancy. I think 513 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 9: that that's very important here because we're focused on him, 514 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 9: and I know that we have the videography of him there. 515 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 9: But let's think about this just for a moment. They're 516 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 9: still out there Nancy, they're still out there working that 517 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 9: scene at that particular time. The bodies have not necessarily 518 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 9: been sent to families at this point in time. But 519 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 9: yet there he is and all of his glory on CCTV. 520 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,719 Speaker 9: You know, people are still scratching their heads over this 521 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 9: thing at this point time. You remember what it was 522 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 9: like during that period of time we were thinking, you know, 523 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 9: is this beast walking up and down the street? Who 524 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 9: is this individual? And there he is. There, he is 525 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 9: in full and living color on CCTV, acting like he's 526 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 9: just you know, showing up, you know, to change out 527 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 9: his tags. And yeah, you can see that she grabs 528 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 9: his attention as soon as the Moscow uh crimes come 529 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 9: up at that moment, tom uh. And again that adds 530 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 9: another level of chill to this. 531 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 2: Nancy, you're going to the university audability? Did you give 532 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 2: the title? 533 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 11: Okay? 534 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 2: So that is it is like you really like me? 535 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, Now you want to do sales, i'd you know, 536 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 5: I always do it with like a lily big university, you. 537 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 2: Know, but I will hear that many people. Wow, we do, 538 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 2: but I do hear good things. You know, they got 539 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 2: good comform stuff. So we do a good program. 540 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, so plan around holding for a little while doing 541 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 4: the program, and then. 542 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 2: You were like, yeah, I do, like okay, but yeah, I. 543 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: Talk about a self important snoot, Bethany, did you hear that? Hey, 544 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: do you get the university here? 545 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 5: Yeah? 546 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: PhD, I'm definitely not an undergrad. And then she. 547 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,719 Speaker 7: Says impressive, like he's he's moving towards bregging and posturing 548 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 7: at that point. Probably what he does everywhere in his life, right, 549 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 7: he tries to brag and insert himself into positions of 550 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 7: superiority and importance, and so it's like it it just 551 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 7: takes only a couple minutes, Nancy before he starts to 552 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 7: brag and become grandiose and circle back to what a 553 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 7: great guy he is. 554 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 3: And then ultimately her walking up, I heard her scream 555 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 3: and she ran downstairs because she saw someone. That's what 556 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure she said. She's someone's here and she's screaming, 557 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 3: just randomn series and I called for a name. They 558 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 3: jumped up in long twin to works. I was so scared, 559 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 3: and I heard someone in the bathroom when I heard 560 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 3: her crying, and I heard some guys you're gonna be 561 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 3: okay to help you. And I kept calling your name, 562 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 3: but she wasn't answering, and then he calls mommy speaks. 563 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: Nearly an hour driving around the crime scene, Brian. 564 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 7: Coberger did not pretend he was saying it was. It 565 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 7: was apparent to everybody around him. 566 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: Literally, just hours after committing for brutal, cold blooded murders, 567 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: Brian Coburger waltzes into the DMV to get a new 568 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,919 Speaker 1: tag and a license. How he kept his straight face 569 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: and carried on normal conversation is a wonder. It's a curiosity. 570 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:55,240 Speaker 1: Let's listen. 571 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 4: You title the nail and about her and eye out 572 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 4: for that have been you tell the less now because 573 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 4: we can reassure ye would make sure the one would 574 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 4: on the back of the and the one who on 575 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 4: the front, and I will and. 576 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 2: We walk him now. So if you ever tell, like, yeah. 577 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 5: What the front peculiar, I don't know. 578 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,720 Speaker 2: We're like one of the like only things to require 579 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:36,320 Speaker 2: boat and I always wondering you're all set good to go, 580 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 2: and they'll be like New York and. 581 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 6: Okay cabsol oh and the Pennsylvania like on the vehicle 582 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 6: you double Pennsylvania and. 583 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 2: My birthdays have required the back or they are a 584 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 2: little Carkay. Yeah, you would be good. I always chext 585 00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 2: a lot of their games, so nate to do. Yeah, yeah, 586 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,959 Speaker 2: real good one. Yeah you have a great weekend. 587 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:09,959 Speaker 5: Than you. 588 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,319 Speaker 1: Did Joe Scott Morgan. Did you hear him say have 589 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: a good one? 590 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 9: Yeah? Actually I did. You know, just business as usual, right, Uh, 591 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 9: going back out to the car and uh, I guess 592 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 9: tooling back off to his apartment there on campus at 593 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:33,839 Speaker 9: Washington State University. Nancy, Yeah, just very calm, collected, Uh 594 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,399 Speaker 9: at that moment, Tom And again, I think that this 595 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,240 Speaker 9: is some kind of gait that he kind of passed 596 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 9: through here. You know, it's kind of testing the waters. 597 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 9: I wonder if this is the first time he was 598 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 9: out and about after these events, you know, did he 599 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,359 Speaker 9: decide to Yeah, well, I think I'll just go out 600 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 9: and to it looks like it's really illuminated out there. 601 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 9: I think I'll just go out in the sunny day 602 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 9: and get my car and run down to the DMV, 603 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 9: stick my toe in the water and see if any 604 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 9: anybody emerges from around the counter are around the corner 605 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 9: to put the bracelets on me and haul me away. 606 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,400 Speaker 9: And he passed that gate, didn't he? So you know, 607 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 9: I begin to think about that, and then reflectively, I 608 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 9: think again about the absolute destruction and horror that he 609 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,359 Speaker 9: left in his wake at that apartment or at that 610 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 9: house there on King Road. Uh So, for me, you know, 611 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 9: trying to trying to balance these two things out, his 612 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,879 Speaker 9: appearance at that at that at that counter, and then 613 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 9: what had happened is really hard to try to understand. 614 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,800 Speaker 9: But Nancy, you know, they never said criminal investigation is easy. 615 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 9: Certainly not when you're talking about a massacre on this scale. 616 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: Also, tonight we have obtained body can I want you 617 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: to hear it as well. 618 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 13: We're gonna seal his bath way up here pretty quickly. 619 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,839 Speaker 13: All four victims are the funeral homes. Once we get 620 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 13: evid his stuff, I'm accountable. I'm going to leave here 621 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,839 Speaker 13: and they'll come back and the morn of the Yeah, 622 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 13: you get to a place where you're you're good to 623 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 13: stop and to stop and we'll just pick up morning. 624 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:14,239 Speaker 10: She heard something around four o'clock this morning. She said 625 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 10: it was one of the victims playing the dolic What 626 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 10: she thought it was she had heard that Saint victim 627 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,360 Speaker 10: he yeld something to the effect of or someone in 628 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 10: the house. She opened up her door, thought she saw 629 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,279 Speaker 10: someone at the top of the stairs shut her go. 630 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 10: A little bit later, a few minutes later, she heard 631 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,840 Speaker 10: female crying she thought again with the saying victim, it 632 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,879 Speaker 10: may not have been crying in the bathroom, and heard 633 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:39,799 Speaker 10: of male voice that. 634 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,319 Speaker 2: She could not recognize, saying something to blind of. 635 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,800 Speaker 10: The affects of it's okay, I'm here for you. A 636 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:47,919 Speaker 10: little bit later after that, she opened up the door 637 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 10: again and saw a male dressed in black kind of 638 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 10: hay moll with lo her some type of playing mask 639 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 10: over his face, standing by the back of the door 640 00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 10: near the slider. She played these occasion based offer the. 641 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 8: Putouts in the eyes. 642 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 10: They made hiphn attacks and shared her a heart and 643 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 10: she's pretty sure down the way from and shortly after 644 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 10: that she called the other roommate downstairs, and he knows 645 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 10: or someone in the house together for me, said I'm 646 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 10: down hearing the second piece as he went down there. 647 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,800 Speaker 1: That is a stark contrast. You're talking about Joe Scott Morgan. 648 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 1: You've got him at the DMV saying hey, have a 649 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: good one. Right after this where the roommate realizes her 650 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: four others, the four others have been murdered and she 651 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,800 Speaker 1: somehow was spared and she looked at the killer in 652 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: the eyes and somehow escaped death. And you hear it 653 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,279 Speaker 1: start off, all four victims on the way to the 654 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: funeral home. I mean, that is just like a slap, 655 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,320 Speaker 1: a cold slap in the face for the victims' families, 656 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:55,800 Speaker 1: all four on the way to the funeral home, just 657 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: so casually tossed off. 658 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, it is. And you know, I go back 659 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 9: to what the police officer stated relative to the comment 660 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 9: that Coburger made about I'm here to help you. I 661 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:11,800 Speaker 9: wonder if he had that same stupid grin on his 662 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 9: face with his dead eyes as he was saying that 663 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 9: there and in amongst that blood bath that he had created, 664 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,320 Speaker 9: and again in this kind of pass a way, you know, 665 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,120 Speaker 9: just like he's talking at the counter right here, almost robotic, right, 666 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 9: I wonder if that's the way he treated those victims 667 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 9: inside of that environment, did he ever did his blood 668 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 9: pressure ever increase, did his pulse rate ever increase? Or 669 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 9: was he just an absolute animal? And again, removing the 670 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 9: bodies from the scene, and you're you know, this is 671 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,399 Speaker 9: kind of one of the first times that we've really 672 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 9: heard this, this very intimate information about the bodies being 673 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 9: removed from the scene so that they can go to 674 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 9: the funeral home and then be transported over for the 675 00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 9: autopsies that would follow later. And again, so back to 676 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 9: this idea that he's at the DMV while all of 677 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:07,360 Speaker 9: this is happening, and again this is that night, but 678 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,479 Speaker 9: just thinking that they're still out there processing the scene. 679 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 9: Remember what the police officer said, he said, we'll come 680 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,239 Speaker 9: back in the morning and we'll get started again. I 681 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 9: guess at first light, they're still working this scene, Nancy, 682 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,240 Speaker 9: in real time. I think a lot of people forget 683 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 9: about that, and particularly you match it up with his 684 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,920 Speaker 9: interaction at the DMV, and it really sends a chill up, 685 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:29,840 Speaker 9: respond doctor Bethany. 686 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,799 Speaker 1: Listening to Joe Scott talking just then, I guess when 687 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: you're a victim of violent crime, it never goes away. 688 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 1: Because when I heard the body cam all four victims 689 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 1: there on the way to the funeral home, and then 690 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 1: I heard Joe Scott talking about it. I remember when 691 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,719 Speaker 1: my fiance was murdered. It didn't seem real. I thought, 692 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,640 Speaker 1: if I can just get to him, I can fix it. 693 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 1: He said, a car accident. Maybe this is wrong, And 694 00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:02,560 Speaker 1: then I saw my pastor write Burnstain funeral Home. I 695 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 1: can remember that, it just happened. I wonder if the 696 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 1: victim's parents have heard that body cam. They haven't. I mean, 697 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 1: they've seen a lot worse. But there's just something about 698 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: the finality and a funeral home and the smell of 699 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 1: all those fake flowers. 700 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:23,880 Speaker 3: It's just. 701 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 1: Just makes it all real, you. 702 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,040 Speaker 7: Know, Nancy. There's such a finality to death, and how 703 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,880 Speaker 7: a loved one dies is important. I lost a husband 704 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 7: to cancer many years ago, and I'll never forget him 705 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,800 Speaker 7: being wheeled out on a stretcher to go to the 706 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,480 Speaker 7: funeral home. And it was the look he was in 707 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 7: the body bank. I couldn't see his face anymore. He 708 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,240 Speaker 7: had died in our home. And anything that is reminiscent 709 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,600 Speaker 7: of that reminds me of that night. Even the color black, 710 00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,080 Speaker 7: even the word funeral home, any tiny little thing and 711 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,520 Speaker 7: cause that kind of a flashback. And there's something so 712 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,239 Speaker 7: tragic about this scene. I want to point out the 713 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:11,759 Speaker 7: DMV clerk says, you're good to go. I think she's 714 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,600 Speaker 7: trying to push them along. At that point. She has 715 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 7: the power to push them along. She's behind the counter, 716 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,959 Speaker 7: she's safe. Did you see that dog in the video. 717 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:21,400 Speaker 7: There's a dog running around. 718 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:21,840 Speaker 3: You know. 719 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,879 Speaker 7: Her friends and colleagues are all around her. These four 720 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 7: victims in this home could not move him along. They 721 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:34,280 Speaker 7: could not They were half asleep. He had a cabar knife. 722 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:38,560 Speaker 7: He's more powerful than them. They're not in a safe place. 723 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:44,560 Speaker 7: Like the DMV worker Nancy. His biggest preoccupation coburgers was 724 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:48,800 Speaker 7: a guy named Danny Rawlings, the Gainesville ripper, who committed 725 00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:53,359 Speaker 7: a similar crime, targeted college students, dressed in black, used 726 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 7: a k bar knife, sexually assaulted the victims. First, I 727 00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,840 Speaker 7: do believe this could have been worse. I do believe 728 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:04,000 Speaker 7: something happened where he was not able to sexually assault 729 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:08,560 Speaker 7: them before committing the crime. Perhaps he was too inexperienced. 730 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:14,440 Speaker 7: A novice got interrupted, heard a noise. We cannot imagine 731 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 7: what happened. We cannot imagine how the parents feel. But 732 00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,560 Speaker 7: trust me, every day they are thinking about the loss 733 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:27,040 Speaker 7: of their kids, and they are going in horrifying detail 734 00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:32,520 Speaker 7: over all the all the interactions, all the details, all 735 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,680 Speaker 7: the horrors at that night, and just hoping their children 736 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:36,760 Speaker 7: were spared the worst. 737 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:44,320 Speaker 1: To the Moscow victims rest in peace, and to their families. 738 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,640 Speaker 1: God Speed to you. You are still in so many prayers. 739 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:55,760 Speaker 1: We remember an American hero, Officer Adam Buckner to SONPD, 740 00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 1: killed in the line of duty, leaving behind a grieving 741 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:07,600 Speaker 1: wife now widow. American hero Officer Adam Buckner Nancy Grace 742 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,959 Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,