WEBVTT - Les Claypool 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.760 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:18.560 My guest today is Basis Extraordinary Les claypool Less. A 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.040 couple of things we were talking trying to get the 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:27.160 technical stuff under control. You talked about early morning and 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:29.400 it's just about noon. Are you a late night guy? 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:32.360 I am not a late night guy. It was more 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:39.520 just a reference to dealing with technical issues as the 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:43.400 first part of the day and being a lowly based player. 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:48.320 Okay. Then another thing, and this is well known, you 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:53.800 were referred to as colonel. What's the derivation of that? 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:55.640 That came about with some of my guys when I 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:59.760 started the Frog Brigade years ago that you know, I 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:03.040 was the kernel of of of the brigade, and I 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:05.720 like to joke that it's more K E R N 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:08.600 A l as, more like as a bit of corn 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:12.919 as opposed to some form of military authority figure. 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:17.640 Okay, So the Frog Brigade is going on the road. 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:23.759 You have multiple bands associations. Why the Frog Brigade? Why now? 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:32.560 My manager told me to do it. I don't know. 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:34.560 It's it's it's been a while since we've done the 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:38.280 Frog Brigade. There seems to be a hunger for for 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:43.280 some for some brigade, I've we're re releasing uh those 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:49.240 old pron song h recordings, So uh, it just seemed 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:50.960 like the right time. I had a big year with 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:56.000 Primus last year, probably the most daunting uh Primus undertaking 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:00.600 in the history of primis by doing that entire record, 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:05.600 which again another another another test of the firing of 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:10.840 the synapse. So it's it's it's it's just time, it's 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:12.760 it's it's time to shift gears a little bit. 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:16.720 Okay, everybody knows your name, but not everybody is familiar 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:18.800 with the ins and outs of your career. Can you 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:21.040 tell us a little bit more about the frog we gave. 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:26.920 Well so many years ago, well right around the turn 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:29.520 of the century, we were having some issues in the 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:32.960 Primus world and we weren't necessarily seeing eye to eye 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:34.920 on things, and I think we had some burnout and 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:36.600 there was some there was a little bit of fade 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:40.280 going on, and we went on a hiatus, which was 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:42.400 just another way of saying, we're breaking up and we 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:48.480 might get back together at some point. And I I 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:50.560 I did this gig in New Orleans which ended up 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:53.160 being the being Oyster Head, and it sort of launched 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.760 me into this. It made it made my presence known 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:00.000 in the jam world. So I got a call from 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:03.240 an old friend of mine, Michael Bailey, who books the 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:08.520 film More, and he was booking this festival in Calaveras 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:11.000 County called the Mountain Air Festival and it's you know, 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:16.040 famous calaver'se jumping frog, you know, famous from Mark Twain story. 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:19.160 And wait, wait, I don't think everybody knows that. So 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:21.160 if you remember, go a little bit deeper about the 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:23.200 jumping frog in Mark Twain. 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:27.440 Oh yeah, the famous jumping frog of Calaveras County. So 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:29.640 I have a history with Calaverrese County because I used 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:31.919 to play in this band, this old R and B 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:34.880 band when I was about nineteen years old. With we 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:39.400 would play these basically Hell's Angels events all over northern California, 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:42.640 and one of them was the Frog Jumps in Calaveras 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:47.920 County and Calver's County has had these frog Jumps for 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:55.280 decades and the bikers used to go to this thing, 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:57.240 but they would get harassed, so they started their own, 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:59.600 which was like a week prior and I used to 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:04.040 go play thing. So anyway, Michael Bailey and BGP at 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:06.200 the time had this Mountain. 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:08.200 Air Bill Graham Presents, Yes. 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.480 Had this Mountain Air Festival. And so because of the 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:15.880 Oysterhead thing that I had put together in New Orleans, 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:18.560 Michael Bailey said, hey, can you put something together for us? 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:21.960 So I got Tim Alexander on drums, and I had 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:25.840 Jack Irons, one of my favorite drummers on drums as well, 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:30.279 two drummers, then my buddy Merv on guitar and Garrick 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:32.839 on sacks, and we were going to call it the 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:36.320 thunder Brigade. And Michael was like, you know, we're bringing 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.320 up the primus guy into the jam world. Something called 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:41.719 the thunder Brigade might be a little heavy handed. So 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:43.279 I said, well, let's call it the Frog Brigade because 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:45.880 it's the Frog jumps and that's how Frog Brigade was born. 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:50.840 Okay, so Michael Bailey said, to do the gig. Tell 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:53.120 us about the gig and what the music was like. 0:04:56.200 --> 0:05:00.520 Well, basically, like Oysterhead, there was a it was a 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:04.000 lot of just straight up improvisations. So my idea was 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.440 to get some of my favorite guys together, Tim and 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:08.520 Tim Alexander and I hadn't played together in a while 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:10.360 because he had left Primus and this was sort of 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.320 this was sort of his introduction back into the Primus world. 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:15.800 And then Jack Irons was a buddy of mine, he 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:18.160 was a neighbor. And Merv is just a guitar player 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.239 who I've just have always adored. And then Scarek is Scarek. 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.520 He's a champion, He's known in that world very well. 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:29.080 And we got together, picked a few songs and then 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:33.640 just sort of jammed it out and it that and 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.240 the Oysterhead thing really opened my eyes to the notion 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:39.360 that hey, people want to see you do all those 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:41.880 things that other people have been telling you not to 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:45.000 do all these years, which is wiggle your fingers and 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:48.039 take chances and dance on the edge. They want to 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:55.359 see you fall and potentially fall gracefully. And I just 0:05:55.400 --> 0:06:00.240 found that fascinating and it's since become a bit big 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:03.960 part of my philosophy on how to approach music, which 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:07.159 is just throw past at the walls and see what sticks. 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:12.720 You know, Okay, let's go back to you saying all 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:16.320 the stuff you're not supposed to do in falling. You 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:17.479 go a little deeper on that. 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:23.760 Well, Uh, I've always been one of those guys that 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:28.200 could waggle my fingers pretty good. And I've definitely been 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:30.840 in many situations over the years where they're like, you know, 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:34.120 that's nice, less, but can you waggle your fingers maybe 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.800 half as much as you're waggling your fingers? And you know, 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:41.400 and when the when the when the job calls for 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.919 it or the gig calls for it, I have no 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:45.560 problem doing that. That's what I do. You know, when 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:47.560 I play with Tom Waits, I don't waggle my fingers 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.760 nearly as much as I do in Primus, but something 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:51.320 like primus. 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.960 Wait, well, let's be very specific, because not everybody is 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:59.000 as knowledgeable certainly as you. When you say waggle your fingers, 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:02.000 you're talking about a style of play or being more 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:03.599 visually dynamic. 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:10.200 Ah, wiggle of the fingers. In my world, well, in 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:13.800 my personal mind, it is just another way of saying 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.000 playing technically. 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:22.920 Okay, So as opposed to if you're not playing technically, 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:23.640 you're doing what. 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:30.120 Well, as opposed to holding down the route or playing 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:34.920 a little more minimalistic. So okay, does that make sense? 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.080 Well, I think there's a lot more questions, but let's 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:40.920 hold those questions to continue the narrative how you ended 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:44.640 up changing to be in the quote unquote GM band world. 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:47.160 It wasn't so much a change. It was more of 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:48.960 there was a there was a side of me that 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:51.000 all of a sudden, Hey, wait a minute, here's some 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:55.880 people that are enjoying music. For the musicians, there was 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:59.400 no hey, I got to wear a red baseball cap 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.280 backwards because that's the style now, or there was no 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.000 thought of being on radio or MTV or any of this. 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:09.640 It was people wanting to see musicians young and old, 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.840 just do what they could do to the extent of 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:18.240 the of their ability and take chances musically in front 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:21.000 of a large crowd. That's what I got out of it. 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:24.800 When we did the Oysterhead thing was it was insane. 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:26.520 It was like, we're going to go up and we've 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:29.400 jammed together three times, and we're going to go play 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:31.400 these songs that we just wrote and we're going to 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:34.240 just jam. It was like being in high school and 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:37.240 setting up in the garage and but yet in front 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:38.520 of thousands of people. 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:39.960 And in. 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:44.720 The Primus world, you know, we were known for doing 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:48.559 some improv, but it was we were within the parameters 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:52.360 of our song structure, whereas doing the Oysterhead thing and 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:57.520 then subsequently getting into Frog Brigade world structure wasn't such 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:00.000 a big deal. You know, the parameters were much looser, 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:03.400 or they were interpreted as being much looser. So it's 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:06.320 just more free form expression with your instrument. 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:10.000 Okay, because I know what Oysterhead is, but not everybody 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:12.400 does tell us about the formation and the members of 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:13.120 oyster Head. 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:17.760 Well, Ryan abound that right right around that time. Excuse me. 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.440 The fellows at Superfly who used to put on these 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:24.960 these these events down at the Jazz Festival. 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:27.479 This is an emotion company. 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:30.480 Yes, down in New Orleans would do these things called 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:34.120 super jams. And my manager was he managed Galactic at 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:36.360 the time, so he was he was in that world, 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.160 and he said, Hey, they want you to put together 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:41.360 something for a SuperJAM. I'm like, what the hell is 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.400 a super jam. Well, you get a hold of some 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:45.560 you get some musicians together, and you just go and 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:47.160 jam in front of a bunch of people. I was like, 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:49.360 all right, well, I'm going to call my buddy Trey 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:51.880 Anastasia because he's in a band that's kind of known 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:55.160 for jamming. And so I called up Trey I said, hey, 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:56.920 they want us, they want me to do this event. 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:59.040 Are you interested in coming and doing this thing? And 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:00.840 he said, you know, I've always wanted to do a 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:03.880 project with you and Stuart Copeland. And I said, well, 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:06.719 I know Stuart, and I think he kind of I 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:09.280 learned years later that he kind of tossed that out 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:11.520 at me as like a, well, I don't really want 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:13.400 to do this, but hey, if you can get you know, 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:17.400 Stuart Coput involved. It was, it was it was kind 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:19.959 of a way of gracefully bowing out of this little 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.400 did he know that I actually knew Stuart. So then 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:25.160 I called Stuart. Stuart's like I've been waiting for this 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:28.800 phone call for twenty five years. He was so excited 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.840 and ready to do it. And the three of us 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:35.040 got together and jammed a little bit, and then we 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:37.599 did this show. It was purely by the seat of 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.520 our pants, and it was it was very foreign for 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:43.400 Stuart because you know, the police was a was a 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:47.040 pretty scripted unit, and you know, he would always talk 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:49.760 about his pop sensibilities. And then there's Trey who's just 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:53.280 used to going going for it in front of huge 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:55.199 groups of people. And then there was me kind of 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.280 dancing in the middle, and it was just a very 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:04.200 liberating thing. And and and that's what opened my eyes 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:07.680 and probably other people's eyes to me in that world. 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:10.000 How did you know, Trey? 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.400 I had played with Fish many years ago. I had 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.320 a band called Sausage, which was some of the original 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:21.760 members of Primus, and we opened for Fish at Laguna 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:25.960 Seca Days in California. And I always knew a Fish 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:27.400 as this, you know, there was this band kind of 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:29.440 came up around us, and there was we had some 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:32.400 mutual friends, and there was a couple songs of theirs 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:34.680 that we used to listen to every now and again. 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:38.439 But I to be honest with you, I didn't realize 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:40.880 how big they were. And so we did this. You know, 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.120 I just call them up, I just call them Trey, going, hey, 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:46.480 you want to do this thing? And little did I 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:48.760 know the show was going to sell out in five 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.640 seconds and it was all, you know, fish heads, because 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:54.120 I had no clue how big they were. 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:58.920 So and how did you know, Stewart, Well. 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.840 We did a rec he Primus did in the late 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:06.560 eighties called anti Pop and it was after the Brown Album, 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:10.960 and the Brown Album was our sort of our experimental 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:13.080 record where we bought all this whole vintage gear and 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.760 just made this record that Tom Waits and once told 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.120 me it sounds like it needs a good wash, you know, 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:23.600 because it's a very dirty dark It's the Brown album, 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:28.520 it's the Brown sound. And the record company wasn't real 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.240 thrilled with that record nor with its performance. So when 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:33.800 we came to do our next record, there was a 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:35.800 lot of talk of, hey, you know, you guys have 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:38.200 always done your own thing and done and gone your 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:40.400 own way, but maybe it's time to work with a producer. 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:44.520 And we had dabbled around with some producers on a 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:46.720 few little projects prior to that and just never found 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.760 anything that clicked with us. So the notion came up, well, 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:53.640 let's work with a bunch of artists. We respect musicians 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:57.360 and whatnot as producers to produce individual songs. So one 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:00.439 of the first calls we made was to Stuart, because I, 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:02.960 you know, I've always you know, to me, the Rumblefish 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:06.760 soundtrack is one of the greatest pieces of music ever recorded. 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:10.640 I absolutely adore that, and I love his sensibility, and 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:12.760 so here comes Stuart. He was happy as a clam 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:14.600 to come up and sit in my bean bag chair 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:16.400 and point at us and tell us what to do 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:20.440 and throw some of his pop sensibilities at us. So 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.120 that's how it and we just hit it off. He's 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.040 a great guy. He's one of my best friends now, 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:26.880 so I'll Kevin for a long time. 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.400 You start off by saying your manager told you to 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:34.160 do the Frog Brigade. Now you talk about the labels 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.160 saying telling you what to do. Your image is of 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:41.280 someone who doesn't listen to anybody and does whatever he wants. 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:46.800 So who are you relative to that? 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:51.000 Well, it wasn't like he told me to do the 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:54.000 oysterhead thing or told me to do. He brought in 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:56.000 the options to do this and I said, wow, that 0:13:56.400 --> 0:14:00.840 sounds interesting. It's a new thing. And the record company 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:05.760 thing was, you know, well we can't. There's no producer 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.719 that we really clicked with. We tried to get Brian Eno, 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:12.160 but he wouldn't even talk to us, which I think 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:18.240 would have been spectacular. But it was just kind of 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.080 our way of doing it, our way, if that makes 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:21.640 any sense. 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:25.000 Okay, a couple of questions. Where are you right? The second? 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.880 I'm not talking about literally the street address, but what 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.480 where are you relative to California. 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:38.680 I'm in the Sonoma coastal Wine Country, Okay, and I'm 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:42.720 sitting at my kitchen table, and that is that's Penelope 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:46.560 behind me right there's she's a figurehead from a ship. 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:51.840 Okay. You know, in the Internet era, you could be anywhere. 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:58.600 But and you grew up exactly where I grew up. 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:03.480 In the East Bay of San Francisco Bay Area, so Panol, Richmond, 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:07.240 else BRANDI well, it's it's it's it's a it's a 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:08.400 little north of Berkeley. 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:10.720 And would your parents do for a living? 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.280 I come from a long line of auto mechanics. My 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:16.920 father was auto mechanic. My uncles were all mechanics. My 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.760 stepfather was a mechanic. My grandfather was a mechanic. But 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:23.120 I did have one grandfather that was a fireman, and 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:26.600 he actually has been immortalized, if you want to call 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:28.760 it that in this song. Jerry was a race car driver, 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:30.120 as Captain Pierce the Fireman. 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:34.520 Okay. Lots of auto mechanics, so they're all those auto mechanics. 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:38.720 Are you an auto mechanic at least on any amateur level? Uh? 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:43.120 My father to this day gets upset with me when 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.400 I work on my own vehicles because he's worried I'm 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.720 going to smash up my hands, which is which is valid. 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:53.000 But I tend to do it anyway because I'd rather 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:55.120 do it than wait for somebody to come and do it. 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:57.760 But I work on a lot of it, but not 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:00.240 all of it. The guys like to make fun of 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:01.720 me because I spend a lot of my time on 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.920 tour working on my own tour bus. But I enjoy it. 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:09.000 Okay, tour bus is a whole another you know, league 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:11.800 with diesel engines. How do you know to work on 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:12.760 a tour bus? 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.680 You know, it's all, it's all, it's all, it's all relative. 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.000 You know, you got to service the generator, you got 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:24.120 I have a buddy that builds tour bus, big fancy 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:27.600 tour coaches for for entertainers. And he said, there's two 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:33.400 types of tour buses that that break down, old tour 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:36.640 buses and new tour buses. They all break down, they 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.600 all have issues. There's always something going on, and so 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:42.440 there tends to be a lot for me to do, 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:44.440 but keeps me busy. 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:48.440 Okay, most people rent their tour buses. Do you renter, 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:49.920 do you own a tour bus? 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.160 I am not a very bright individual. So I actually 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:58.160 have two tour buses now and we talk of us 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.480 selling one of them, but my wife refused uses to 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.440 let me sell. Her name is Lafonda. She was our 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:07.600 first bus because she has fond memories of Lafonda's. So 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:10.800 we're now using it at our tasting room for high 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:12.280 end fancy tastings. 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:15.200 Okay, where are the buses right now? 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:20.000 One of them is that packet room station in sebastopall 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:22.639 our wine tasting facility. 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:25.399 And where's the other one. 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:29.080 It's at our where we keep our gear in our 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:32.200 our rehearsal space. 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:34.879 So if you have a tour bus, is it like 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:38.160 you know some mechanical items, they work best if they're 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.280 used all the time where someone is not on tour 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:44.520 all the time. So like on the tour bus there, 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:47.840 the more you drive it, the fewer problems you have. 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.240 Or if you started up after six months, you know 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:52.040 you got new problems. What's it like? 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:57.520 Well, so a tour bus is like a it's like 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:02.840 a yacht. There's so many things on it. There's kitchens 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:07.800 and bathrooms and pneumatic doors and so there's lots of 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:11.720 things to go wrong. It is true with any mechanical item. 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:14.480 The more you use it, the less apt it is 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:21.240 to be unreliable. So I do have to exercise these 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.120 things as often as I can, and I probably don't 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:24.360 as much as I should. 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:28.800 Okay, tell me more about the wine tasting operation. 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:35.120 Well, we moved up to the Snowma coastal wine country. 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.199 It's been like twenty eight years ago now, and I 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:41.240 used to be a fellow that smoked quite a lot 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:47.960 of the marijuana bush. And where we live, there's it's 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:49.879 like living in Hollywood. If you live in Hollywood and 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:51.720 you have a barbecue, who comes to your barbecue? There 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:55.120 are grips, there's you know, lighting people, There's people within 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:57.120 the industry tend to show up your barbecues. Well, here 0:18:57.920 --> 0:18:59.639 you have a barbecue, it's a lot of Cooper's, a 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:03.480 lot of vineyard managers, people in the wine industry. So 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:10.120 while this wonderful wine Pino noir you say noir, was 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:13.200 floating around, and at the time, I was trying to 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.240 not smoke so much of the marijuana bush because I 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:17.399 felt like it was adversely affecting my memory, and I 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:19.480 wanted to remember what my children were like when they 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:23.439 were little and I needed a new vice, so I 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:26.040 started drinking all this local pino, and then a couple 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:28.399 friends of mine one day said, hey, we should make 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:31.360 our own pino. It'll be cheaper than buying it, which 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:33.360 was the stupidest thing I've ever said in my entire life, 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:37.480 because it's a very costly endeavor. But it's become a 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:40.560 wonderful thing for us on a social level because my 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.879 wife runs it. We have it's just it's kind of 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:45.560 like our clubhouse. We just go and hang out and 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.960 drink this wine. We have a twenty foot fiberglass wianer 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.560 that we serve these gourmet hot dogs out of, and 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.400 the people that work for us are all amazing friends. 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:58.560 So we just kind of fell into it. 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:09.600 Okay, it's not only expensive. He usually takes a bit 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:12.960 of time to get right. So how long you been 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:13.600 doing it for. 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:17.919 We've been doing it since two thousand and seven. But 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:20.640 we're very, very fortunate because at one point, actually there's 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:24.360 twenty ten, we were on the hunt for a new 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:27.520 wine maker, and we're little guys, We're like a thousand cases. 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:30.399 But I was surprised all these winemakers came out of 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:33.560 the woodworks to make our wine. And I would ask them, so, 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:35.320 who do you admire, who do you respect as a 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:40.360 contemporary pino maker, And they always say, oh, Ross Cobb, Rosscobb, Rosscob, 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:42.520 Ross Cobb's pretty fun to get a phone call from 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:44.959 Ross Cobb. He's like, hey, lets I met you with 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:47.159 John Cordy and the Vinyl guys, and I grew up 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:49.520 with sections and we had similar friends. And he's a 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:53.119 bass player, so boom got We got Ross Cobb as 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:55.800 our winemaker. And he's been our winemaker for twelve years now. 0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:58.600 And he's a very good friend. And he's a pretty 0:20:58.600 --> 0:20:59.600 good bass player. 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:04.480 Okay, but he's winemaker exclusives to you or he all 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:06.040 works on multiple vineyards. 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:10.960 He does his own label, Cobb, and he does I 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:13.040 think he does a couple other labels as well, but 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:17.840 he's mainly us and him. 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:19.800 What does it take to make a good wine? 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:25.040 A good winemaker helps, but the main thing is sourcing 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:27.439 good fruit. And where we live just happens to be 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:32.440 the mecca of California peanuta. So we get a lot 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.320 of good fruit and Ross knows what to do with it. 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:37.800 You know, it's funny. I always say that, you know, 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:39.560 I mean a band with Stuart Copeland, which is an 0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:42.399 unbelievable thing to me when I really think about it, 0:21:42.440 --> 0:21:45.560 even though he's a good buddy and it seems natural now. 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:49.040 But it's a similar thing with Ross making our wine. 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:51.840 He's like the Stuart Copeland of winemakers. He's just that 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:56.560 guy that has he has an approach and a thumb prints. 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:00.520 I find making wine is very similar to make records. 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:03.480 There's a lot of variables within those elements that make 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:06.960 that create that thumb print if you're looking to create 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:07.480 a thumbprint. 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:12.119 Okay, so is this a public operation? Can people drive 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:16.440 their sample et cetera? Oh yeah, so people listening it 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:18.879 might be in the area, give us a couple of 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:21.200 names or whatever how they can find your place. 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:24.919 It's just purple packeter is the name of the wine 0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:28.240 and the name of the tasting room's packet m station 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:31.160 and look for the giant fiberglass wain. 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:35.720 So at the end of the day, is this operation 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:37.199 in the red or in the black? 0:22:38.680 --> 0:22:40.960 It's let's just say it's kind of what's what's the 0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:43.159 combination of red and black? I would say pink, but 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:47.080 that's more white and black. It's kind of it just 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:47.960 floats itself. 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:48.520 Basically. 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:50.879 You know, there's an old saying if you want to 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:54.000 make if you want to make a million dollars in 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:57.040 the wine industry, start with five million and whittle it down, 0:22:57.080 --> 0:22:59.840 you know. So it's a lifestyle thing for us. 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:01.280 And how many people work there? 0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:06.160 What do we have? We have six or seven folks 0:23:06.200 --> 0:23:07.280 working for us. 0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:10.639 Okay, and you mentioned your wife. She doesn't want to 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:12.440 get rid of the other tour bus. How'd you meet 0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:14.640 your wife? 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:20.320 I've known we've been together over thirty years. I met 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:24.399 her in Berkeley. Her sisters were going to school in Berkeley, 0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:26.800 and she eventually went to Cal Berkeley and I lived 0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:30.439 in Berkeley. I hung out around caw But we've just 0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:37.680 been together for many, many years and Wet I met 0:23:37.680 --> 0:23:40.399 her through her sisters. It's been a long time. 0:23:40.920 --> 0:23:42.080 And how many kids do you have? 0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:46.880 I have two kids that are now in their mid twenties. 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:48.399 And what are they up to? 0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:54.320 My son graduated from el KAT with a degree in 0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:58.960 game design, but now he's a fledgling filmmaker. In fact, 0:23:59.000 --> 0:24:02.920 he's working on the I'm a documentary right now. And 0:24:03.040 --> 0:24:09.680 my daughter has a sort of a vintage boutique hips hip. 0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:13.159 I wouldn't say hipster, but hip clothes clothing store in 0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:16.960 Pedaluma called Buck Lucky. That's actually doing she's having a 0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:17.560 good time. 0:24:17.359 --> 0:24:20.160 With So they're both kind of still on the payroll. 0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:25.520 They're on there. Well, Lina's not Lina's, she's she's her 0:24:25.560 --> 0:24:29.320 business is clicking right along, so she's doing her own thing. 0:24:30.160 --> 0:24:33.440 Cage he's he's done a few things on his own. 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:38.200 He he just did him and Jimmy Hayward animated that 0:24:38.200 --> 0:24:42.800 that infamous Jim Carrey cartoon that he posted to leave 0:24:43.400 --> 0:24:45.280 what did he leave? Twitter with it or Instagram? I 0:24:45.280 --> 0:24:49.240 can remember. But my son was the animator on that. 0:24:51.520 --> 0:24:53.520 And he's got a few things of his own goings, 0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:55.160 and he's doing the Primus documentary. 0:24:55.880 --> 0:24:58.440 So, your father's a mechanic, comes from a long line 0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:02.359 in mechanic. Your mother homemaker? Does she work outside the home? 0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:08.359 My mother left the planet several years ago, but she 0:25:09.240 --> 0:25:14.400 worked as for many years as a she ran a 0:25:14.440 --> 0:25:19.840 pediatrician's office, so she was like the front desk lady 0:25:19.920 --> 0:25:21.040 or whatever you call it. 0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:24.520 So how many kids in the family. 0:25:25.560 --> 0:25:28.400 In my family? Yes, I have two children. 0:25:28.520 --> 0:25:30.280 Are you talking about no? No, no, When you're growing 0:25:30.480 --> 0:25:32.240 up brothers and sisters. 0:25:33.320 --> 0:25:37.400 I have a stepbrother and stepsister and a half brother 0:25:37.440 --> 0:25:38.040 and half sister. 0:25:39.240 --> 0:25:41.040 And how many grew up in the house with you? 0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:46.520 Well, when I was living with my mom, I was 0:25:46.840 --> 0:25:49.359 myself and my little brother and little sister, and they 0:25:49.359 --> 0:25:51.520 were quite a bit younger than me. And then when 0:25:51.520 --> 0:25:55.280 I moved to my father's when I became high school age, 0:25:55.880 --> 0:25:58.600 I was living with my stepbrother and step sister that 0:25:58.640 --> 0:25:59.760 were closer to my age. 0:26:00.400 --> 0:26:03.919 Do you have any brothers or sisters who share the 0:26:03.960 --> 0:26:05.320 same father and mother as. 0:26:05.200 --> 0:26:09.359 You, different father's, same mother. 0:26:10.640 --> 0:26:16.000 Okay, so what's it like growing up shuttling between these 0:26:16.040 --> 0:26:19.879 two places and really being the only person in your 0:26:19.920 --> 0:26:20.960 own little league there? 0:26:22.560 --> 0:26:25.440 Well, I, you know, I was a child of the seventies, 0:26:25.520 --> 0:26:29.720 and I think it was fairly common. You know, most 0:26:29.760 --> 0:26:32.280 of my friends were shuffling off every other weekend to 0:26:32.320 --> 0:26:36.520 see the the parent they weren't living full time with, 0:26:37.960 --> 0:26:42.920 so it seemed pretty pretty commonplace. You know, there were 0:26:42.920 --> 0:26:45.440 pros and cons. The pro is, you got two Christmases. 0:26:45.960 --> 0:26:48.600 You know, that was pretty that was pretty sweet. The 0:26:48.680 --> 0:26:52.879 con was, you know, I had to divide my time. 0:26:53.680 --> 0:26:56.200 But it worked out for me. I went and moved 0:26:56.200 --> 0:26:58.159 in with my father when I was thirteen, which was 0:26:58.200 --> 0:27:00.280 a which was a great thing for me because that's 0:27:00.440 --> 0:27:04.160 where I got exposed to a more musical community and 0:27:04.560 --> 0:27:08.480 just got to kind of go reinvent myself. And where 0:27:08.520 --> 0:27:11.600 I had been living. My cousin, who I spent every 0:27:11.680 --> 0:27:14.920 day with until I was thirteen years old, he ended 0:27:15.000 --> 0:27:18.159 up spending the majority of his life in prison, So 0:27:20.400 --> 0:27:22.639 it was good that I moved on from that world. 0:27:23.200 --> 0:27:26.320 What was he what were his crimes? 0:27:26.880 --> 0:27:30.280 Well, addiction is a big thing in my family, whether 0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:35.000 it's alcohol or meth amphetamine. So he went down the 0:27:35.440 --> 0:27:40.159 crank trail, as we would have said, and just it 0:27:40.520 --> 0:27:45.240 consumed him and he spent a lot of time behind bars. 0:27:45.960 --> 0:27:50.800 So you're growing up, what kind of kid are you? Popular? Outcast, 0:27:50.920 --> 0:27:52.480 good student, bad student? 0:27:55.600 --> 0:27:58.640 I think I was somewhere in the middle. I think 0:27:58.720 --> 0:28:01.240 moving to my father was a chance for me to 0:28:01.400 --> 0:28:04.600 kind of reinvent myself and show up and be you know, 0:28:05.040 --> 0:28:06.960 move from group to group until I found who I 0:28:07.000 --> 0:28:12.080 was comfortable with. I did. I was the I was 0:28:12.119 --> 0:28:14.439 the kid in my family that was would have been 0:28:14.440 --> 0:28:16.200 the first one to go to college or the first 0:28:16.200 --> 0:28:18.480 male to go to college because I had good grades 0:28:18.520 --> 0:28:24.040 and whatnot. But I I had to work because I 0:28:24.080 --> 0:28:26.840 had no money. I had to work, and I wanted 0:28:26.840 --> 0:28:28.800 to play music. I couldn't work and play music and 0:28:28.840 --> 0:28:30.200 go to college. I just wouldn't have been able to 0:28:30.240 --> 0:28:32.760 pull it off. So I tried it for a semester. 0:28:32.800 --> 0:28:35.120 It didn't work out, and then I opted to work 0:28:35.160 --> 0:28:37.760 and play music. And that's and here I am now 0:28:37.800 --> 0:28:38.760 talking to you. 0:28:38.760 --> 0:28:40.680 You got a wild sense of humor. Where does that 0:28:40.720 --> 0:28:43.240 come from? 0:28:44.320 --> 0:28:47.320 I'm going to say my grandfather, who has who actually 0:28:47.360 --> 0:28:51.760 has a Wamola Wiener named after him, Papa Simoni at 0:28:51.800 --> 0:28:56.480 our at our, at our hot dog joint. Our family 0:28:56.520 --> 0:29:01.200 tend to tended to deal with heavy issues with humor. 0:29:01.280 --> 0:29:01.440 You know. 0:29:01.440 --> 0:29:03.600 It was always deflected with humor. That's just always the 0:29:03.600 --> 0:29:09.840 way we did things. So he was a very humorous. 0:29:09.400 --> 0:29:14.720 Fellow, Okay, and you pick up the bass? When and why? 0:29:17.720 --> 0:29:17.800 So? 0:29:19.760 --> 0:29:24.840 When I had mister Kelly's algebra class in ninth grade 0:29:25.640 --> 0:29:29.600 and there was a fellow who sat behind me who 0:29:30.120 --> 0:29:33.160 wore these big, thick pop bottled glasses, had this long hair, 0:29:33.200 --> 0:29:36.480 and he'd wore these these white T shirts, this kind 0:29:36.520 --> 0:29:39.760 of a little Filipino guy, and he would sit back 0:29:39.800 --> 0:29:44.160 there and look at guitar magazines and roll up dimebags. 0:29:46.240 --> 0:29:50.120 And I remember him showing he would show me these magazines, Hey, Clay, 0:29:50.120 --> 0:29:52.160 pooh man, look at that's that's the one I'm getting 0:29:52.200 --> 0:29:54.200 right there. And he'd show me pictures of the stratocaster, 0:29:54.280 --> 0:29:57.200 and I remember the ad specifically a stratocaster, those guy 0:29:57.400 --> 0:29:59.680 holding it going it's a country machine, and somebody overs 0:30:00.280 --> 0:30:02.160 going it's a rock machine, and somebody else going it's 0:30:02.160 --> 0:30:04.720 a blues machine. He's like, that's the gold guitar I'm getting. 0:30:04.720 --> 0:30:08.280 That's what I'm getting. And that guy happened to be 0:30:08.320 --> 0:30:13.880 Kirk Hammitt and he he he wanted me to sing 0:30:13.920 --> 0:30:15.880 for his band because I would always come in singing 0:30:15.920 --> 0:30:20.280 like Aerosmith songs and you know, a Zeppelin and whatnot. 0:30:20.640 --> 0:30:22.479 And he was like, kay poo, I want you to 0:30:22.520 --> 0:30:24.200 I want you to sing from a band. Man wants 0:30:24.200 --> 0:30:25.440 you to sing from a band. And he gave me 0:30:25.480 --> 0:30:28.040 some tapes. He turned me on too, Hendrix. He gave 0:30:28.080 --> 0:30:31.840 me some He wanted me to sing cream Sunshine of 0:30:31.880 --> 0:30:34.480 your Love. That was gonna be my audition song. And 0:30:34.560 --> 0:30:36.240 I took the tapes and I listened to him, but 0:30:36.320 --> 0:30:38.239 I was too scared. I couldn't I couldn't do it. 0:30:38.280 --> 0:30:40.520 I was like, dude, I can't do it. I can't 0:30:40.520 --> 0:30:42.920 do it. But it gave me the itch to do something. 0:30:43.000 --> 0:30:47.440 And I met this other guy that needed that. You know, 0:30:47.480 --> 0:30:49.520 bass players weren't big demand because everybody wanted to be 0:30:49.600 --> 0:30:51.920 Eddie van Halen. Nobody wanted to play bass. They always 0:30:51.920 --> 0:30:54.880 stuck the bass. The guy who couldn't play couldn't play 0:30:54.880 --> 0:30:56.440 guitar as well as the other guy, you know, so 0:30:57.040 --> 0:30:58.960 he needed a bass player. I knew this guy that 0:30:59.040 --> 0:31:03.000 was selling a bass for I think fifteen bucks or something. 0:31:03.920 --> 0:31:05.720 I was thirty bucks. I had fifteen bucks, and I 0:31:05.760 --> 0:31:08.960 went to my dad. I said, Dad, Jim Ledbetter's got 0:31:08.960 --> 0:31:10.800 this bass. He wants to sell us thirty dollars. I 0:31:10.840 --> 0:31:12.600 got fifteen. Can you loan me in fifteene? Is this 0:31:12.680 --> 0:31:14.120 something you really want to do? And I was like, yeah, 0:31:14.120 --> 0:31:15.880 that's really what I want to do. All right, Well, 0:31:15.920 --> 0:31:18.520 let's do this, right, We're gonna go see Al. So 0:31:18.520 --> 0:31:22.040 we went to Al's Music Local local music store in town, 0:31:22.720 --> 0:31:25.920 and we bought a Fender. It was a Memphis p 0:31:26.120 --> 0:31:30.240 bass copy of a Fender Precision one hundred and fifty dollars. 0:31:30.240 --> 0:31:32.000 My dad loaned me the rest of the money, and 0:31:32.040 --> 0:31:35.880 I worked all summer pulling weeds and schlepping. 0:31:36.040 --> 0:31:38.200 Well, one thing we know about a bass guitar is 0:31:38.240 --> 0:31:40.200 you need an app. So what about an app? 0:31:40.240 --> 0:31:44.040 Well, I was screwed there. I didn't get my own 0:31:44.080 --> 0:31:48.880 app until I was like well into my twenties. I 0:31:49.120 --> 0:31:52.520 actually would the guitar player in this band that I 0:31:52.760 --> 0:31:56.120 ended up joining in high school. He had this little 0:31:56.160 --> 0:32:00.240 Gibson guitar amp and I would play through this little 0:32:00.240 --> 0:32:02.600 Gibson guitar. And the funny thing is I used to 0:32:02.640 --> 0:32:05.080 schlep that damn amp back and forth from my house 0:32:05.120 --> 0:32:07.640 because my house was like maybe half a mile from school, 0:32:07.640 --> 0:32:09.440 and I would carry that damn thing. And I only 0:32:09.480 --> 0:32:12.560 weighed like ninety pounds. I'm carrying this damn thing. I 0:32:12.560 --> 0:32:16.080 had a twelve inch speaker. And now those amps are 0:32:16.120 --> 0:32:18.200 worth a fortune. They're actually worth quite a bit of money. 0:32:18.240 --> 0:32:20.640 I look them up. And but that's what I would 0:32:20.640 --> 0:32:22.160 play through. And you couldn't hear me at all. You 0:32:22.160 --> 0:32:23.880 could barely hear me. I was, you know, it was 0:32:23.920 --> 0:32:26.400 like most bass players in rock bands. I was just 0:32:27.080 --> 0:32:28.960 part of the landscape more than anything. 0:32:30.280 --> 0:32:32.880 But rumor was in my day that if you played 0:32:32.880 --> 0:32:35.040 a bass who regular guitar amp, you're going to blow 0:32:35.040 --> 0:32:35.360 it up. 0:32:35.840 --> 0:32:41.320 Oh yeah, I blew up some amps, but these were 0:32:41.400 --> 0:32:44.960 tiny and this is tiny amp, you know, so it 0:32:45.560 --> 0:32:47.520 didn't get loud enough to do much of anything. 0:32:47.680 --> 0:32:49.800 You know. Okay, see you come on with a p 0:32:50.040 --> 0:32:53.200 bass copy, you got it? How do you learn how 0:32:53.200 --> 0:32:53.760 to play it. 0:32:55.400 --> 0:32:57.840 Well? Because I didn't have an amp, I would sit there, 0:32:58.040 --> 0:33:01.280 much to the chagrin of my stepbrother and stepsister as 0:33:01.280 --> 0:33:05.640 they're watching their cartoons. I would sit on the edge 0:33:05.640 --> 0:33:08.440 of the couch and just play along. And a lot 0:33:08.480 --> 0:33:10.160 of times I would put on like rush records and 0:33:10.160 --> 0:33:12.480 stuff and just play along. I couldn't hear what I 0:33:12.560 --> 0:33:14.880 was doing, so I had no idea if I was 0:33:14.880 --> 0:33:18.000 in the right key or anything. But I could rhythmically 0:33:18.040 --> 0:33:21.280 follow along. And that's kind of how I started, was 0:33:21.800 --> 0:33:28.400 interpreting these songs without hearing the notation, but just rhythmically 0:33:28.480 --> 0:33:29.320 following along. 0:33:29.880 --> 0:33:32.320 And then how did you ultimately learn the right notes 0:33:32.320 --> 0:33:34.880 in the right key? I never did. 0:33:35.360 --> 0:33:38.120 Yeah, you know, we just did this, Like I said, 0:33:38.120 --> 0:33:41.280 we just did this rush album. And part of the 0:33:41.320 --> 0:33:43.000 impetus of us doing the rush album is. It was 0:33:43.040 --> 0:33:45.160 always something that the three of us connected. When we 0:33:45.200 --> 0:33:47.760 first got together, me and Lure and Herb. We saw 0:33:47.760 --> 0:33:49.239 this guy with this giant drum kit, was like, well 0:33:49.400 --> 0:33:51.280 he must know some rush. We'd play little bits and 0:33:51.280 --> 0:33:54.440 pieces of Rush rifts that we knew from, but we 0:33:54.480 --> 0:33:57.560 never knew full songs, you know, just bits and pieces. 0:33:58.320 --> 0:34:00.600 So with Farewell the Kings, we had to learn the 0:34:00.760 --> 0:34:03.360 entire thing. So I was never one of those guys 0:34:03.400 --> 0:34:05.600 that would sit and learn other people's songs, and I 0:34:05.600 --> 0:34:07.400 think a lot of it came from I just didn't 0:34:07.440 --> 0:34:11.800 have the equipment to do so. 0:34:11.800 --> 0:34:13.920 So when you're talking to Kirk, you said, you know 0:34:13.920 --> 0:34:17.200 you taught You said, well, you're running around singing Aerosmith songs, 0:34:17.200 --> 0:34:20.120 et cetera. So prior to this turning point, what was 0:34:20.120 --> 0:34:22.719 your exposure to music and what were you in too? 0:34:24.360 --> 0:34:29.040 Well, I don't know how you were growing up, but 0:34:29.280 --> 0:34:32.000 there was always the kid in the neighborhood who's house 0:34:32.040 --> 0:34:35.680 she hung out at because they had the best stereo, 0:34:36.400 --> 0:34:38.879 they had a pool table, maybe they had a dough 0:34:38.920 --> 0:34:42.000 boy swimming pool, you know. And Jeff Webster was that guy. 0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:45.160 And so Jeff Webster and his older brother Tom, they 0:34:45.280 --> 0:34:47.839 each had their own stereo, plus their parents had a 0:34:47.880 --> 0:34:50.400 badass stereo. Plus they had a pool table, plus they 0:34:50.400 --> 0:34:53.880 had babie guns. Plus they had a dough boy swimming pool. 0:34:53.960 --> 0:34:55.520 And it was that's where we would hang out all 0:34:55.520 --> 0:34:59.319 the time. And I, you know, I had I really 0:34:59.360 --> 0:35:01.440 had no money. I had like a couple of records, 0:35:01.480 --> 0:35:03.520 but these guys had tons of records, so they were 0:35:03.520 --> 0:35:07.120 always playing music. And I was exposed to all this music, 0:35:07.200 --> 0:35:10.799 especially when there's an older brother involved. I remember being 0:35:10.880 --> 0:35:12.960 in I think we were shooting pool one day and 0:35:13.040 --> 0:35:18.759 I hear this darn no no, it's coming blaring out 0:35:18.760 --> 0:35:20.719 of his bedroom. I'm like, what the hell is that. 0:35:20.800 --> 0:35:23.160 It was the greatest sound I'd ever heard in my life. 0:35:24.239 --> 0:35:26.239 And Jeff goes, oh, that's led Zeppelin. I like, wow, 0:35:26.280 --> 0:35:30.880 that guy's amazing. And it was heartbreaker and it was 0:35:31.480 --> 0:35:33.840 it just it just it just stuck to me. It 0:35:33.880 --> 0:35:35.799 was it was the greatest thing I'd ever heard in 0:35:35.840 --> 0:35:39.600 my entire life. So I went and got led Zeppelin too, 0:35:39.600 --> 0:35:43.680 and I put it on my crappy, little little plastic 0:35:43.960 --> 0:35:47.560 turntable with a couple of speakers, and and that was 0:35:47.680 --> 0:35:50.680 that was part of the intro. But the thing. And 0:35:50.760 --> 0:35:53.600 and like I said, I don't I don't know your 0:35:54.840 --> 0:35:57.120 demographic or your age or where you know, where you 0:35:57.160 --> 0:36:00.520 grew up. But a big thing that that for us 0:36:00.600 --> 0:36:03.719 back in the day was those damn record clubs. You know, 0:36:04.000 --> 0:36:06.800 you could join the RCAA Record Club. There was Columbia 0:36:06.800 --> 0:36:08.560 Record Club where you could get X amount of records 0:36:08.560 --> 0:36:11.520 for a dollar, or there was RCAA Record Club where 0:36:11.560 --> 0:36:13.759 you could get not quite as many records, but it 0:36:13.800 --> 0:36:15.760 was only a penny. So I went for the penny 0:36:15.800 --> 0:36:20.120 one because you know, they had no money. And I 0:36:20.200 --> 0:36:24.000 got you know, banned Gypsy's, and I got all the 0:36:24.040 --> 0:36:26.799 world's of stage, and I got Montrose jump on it, 0:36:26.840 --> 0:36:29.000 and I got I remember getting these records gone. This 0:36:29.040 --> 0:36:31.240 is the greatest thing in the world. But that's how 0:36:31.480 --> 0:36:36.000 we got turned on besides friends, but how we accumulated 0:36:36.040 --> 0:36:39.560 our record collection was through these clubs. And then of 0:36:39.600 --> 0:36:41.279 course they'd send you a record every month and you 0:36:41.320 --> 0:36:42.680 had to get it back to them by a certain 0:36:42.760 --> 0:36:44.280 dat or they charge you for it. 0:36:45.120 --> 0:36:47.840 Well, the other thing is the scam was they charged 0:36:47.880 --> 0:36:51.640 you full retail price, So if the album was four 0:36:51.719 --> 0:36:54.279 dollars in a discount store, it was six ninety eight 0:36:54.680 --> 0:36:55.840 to the person in the club. 0:36:56.520 --> 0:36:59.239 Yeah, but when you're thirteen, you just don't think that way. 0:36:59.239 --> 0:37:01.040 You're thinking. You know, it's like it's like buying the 0:37:01.360 --> 0:37:04.120 six foot Frankenstein in the back of the comic book 0:37:04.160 --> 0:37:05.680 for a dollar. You think you're going to get this, 0:37:05.840 --> 0:37:08.279 and it's a poster, you know, it's like a black 0:37:08.320 --> 0:37:10.239 and white poster. You don't think of that. My dad 0:37:10.320 --> 0:37:12.120 was always if it seems too good to be true, 0:37:12.320 --> 0:37:14.120 then it is too good to be true. Yeah, right, Dad, 0:37:14.120 --> 0:37:16.560 you don't know what you're talking about. I'm getting six 0:37:16.600 --> 0:37:17.879 records for a penny, you know. 0:37:19.320 --> 0:37:21.480 Just to you know, dot an I back there, A 0:37:21.600 --> 0:37:25.520 doll Boy was a high level above ground pool, probably 0:37:25.600 --> 0:37:29.840 the best brand. But did you also listen to the radio? 0:37:31.680 --> 0:37:34.399 I mean, my mom always had the AM radio going 0:37:34.440 --> 0:37:36.760 when we were kids. You know, I remember her scooting 0:37:36.760 --> 0:37:40.760 across the floor doing her whatever type of Roba sizing 0:37:40.840 --> 0:37:43.080 or whatever you called it back then, with her beehive 0:37:43.120 --> 0:37:48.920 hair to like Diana Ross and whatnot. But yeah, I 0:37:48.920 --> 0:37:52.000 mean I remember when FM radio became a big deal 0:37:52.080 --> 0:37:54.239 for us. You know, you'd listen, you'd hear some song. 0:37:54.360 --> 0:37:58.560 I remember hearing, you know, waiting to hear what like 0:37:59.080 --> 0:38:01.120 what the next sound was going to be? And I 0:38:01.160 --> 0:38:03.360 remember one day hearing this song and I was like, 0:38:03.400 --> 0:38:05.279 oh my god, that's the greatest song I've ever heard. 0:38:05.280 --> 0:38:07.399 And they didn't say who it was. So I kept 0:38:07.440 --> 0:38:09.080 listening and this was the Camel. I don't know if 0:38:09.080 --> 0:38:11.920 you know Camel, Yeah, k me l Sian Francisco. 0:38:12.120 --> 0:38:12.880 Yeah. Yeah. 0:38:13.160 --> 0:38:15.600 So I'm waiting to hear this song again. What the 0:38:15.640 --> 0:38:17.520 hell song was it? What the hell signed? And it 0:38:17.560 --> 0:38:20.239 took months and finally I hear it again and was 0:38:20.280 --> 0:38:24.920 a Man on the Silver Mountain by Rainbow. I was 0:38:24.960 --> 0:38:27.239 just like, oh my god, and it and next thing 0:38:27.239 --> 0:38:29.920 you know, I went out, I went down the Rainbow Trail. 0:38:32.040 --> 0:38:38.400 Okay, so just to be clear, you're born in sixty three. 0:38:38.760 --> 0:38:42.080 Led Zeppelin two came out the fall of sixty nine. 0:38:43.080 --> 0:38:45.960 How many years behind that were you into it? And 0:38:46.000 --> 0:38:49.279 when did you kind of think in time such as 0:38:49.320 --> 0:38:56.040 you were listening to the stuff that was out right then? 0:38:56.360 --> 0:38:58.960 Well, I mean I got into Zeppelin it would have 0:38:58.960 --> 0:39:01.840 been in the mid to late seventies. That's when I 0:39:01.960 --> 0:39:05.840 sort of became aware of such things. Prior to that, 0:39:05.880 --> 0:39:08.239 it was Beatles and I used to buy forty fives 0:39:08.280 --> 0:39:11.040 that was the big thing is is if I got 0:39:11.040 --> 0:39:12.960 an A on my report card, I'd get a dollar, 0:39:13.600 --> 0:39:16.040 and so I would take that dollar and go buy 0:39:16.040 --> 0:39:19.200 a forty five. So needless to say, I didn't have 0:39:19.200 --> 0:39:20.719 a lot of forty fives because I didn't get a 0:39:20.760 --> 0:39:24.080 lot of a's on my report cards. But I remember 0:39:24.160 --> 0:39:26.080 one of the first ones I bought was you know, 0:39:26.200 --> 0:39:30.240 Stevie Wonder Superstition, and then Amos Moses by Jerry Reid 0:39:30.360 --> 0:39:33.840 and uh and then when we got into albums, that 0:39:33.960 --> 0:39:35.880 was like a whole that was a whole new ballgame. 0:39:35.960 --> 0:39:38.520 But I think the first album I ever bought was 0:39:39.920 --> 0:39:42.680 Why I says Loos Chacones. I can't remember the Cheach 0:39:42.680 --> 0:39:44.279 and Chong record. You know, we were we had a 0:39:44.320 --> 0:39:47.719 big Cheat and Chong phase, which I which once my 0:39:47.760 --> 0:39:49.320 father heard it, he took it away from me. 0:39:49.560 --> 0:39:53.760 What was the routine on that particular album? 0:39:54.040 --> 0:39:56.719 Uh, well, there was quite a few. That was the 0:39:56.800 --> 0:39:58.239 one where they would go to the you know there 0:39:59.120 --> 0:40:02.200 they go to the drive in. You know, they go 0:40:02.239 --> 0:40:03.600 to the drive in and sneak the guy in in 0:40:03.680 --> 0:40:05.080 the trunk and they can't get him out and he's 0:40:05.120 --> 0:40:06.120 pissing on the trunk and. 0:40:14.600 --> 0:40:20.880 Okay, so you get the bass, how long after that 0:40:20.920 --> 0:40:22.080 are you playing with the band? 0:40:22.800 --> 0:40:26.480 Immediately? I was immediately in a band because I had 0:40:26.480 --> 0:40:29.840 befriended the local guitar player who was like he was 0:40:29.920 --> 0:40:32.440 like the guy, he was the hot shot guy, and 0:40:32.520 --> 0:40:35.000 he's he had this He had started this band called 0:40:35.000 --> 0:40:38.040 Blind Illusion and they needed a bass player. And I 0:40:38.120 --> 0:40:39.880 was immediately in the band. And I didn't know how 0:40:39.880 --> 0:40:42.400 to play anything because it was all original material. I 0:40:42.400 --> 0:40:45.440 couldn't play anybody else's music but his. I only knew 0:40:45.440 --> 0:40:47.480 how to play his song. So that's how I learned, 0:40:47.600 --> 0:40:50.000 was learning to play him showing me how to play 0:40:50.000 --> 0:40:54.759 his songs. It wasn't until I started branching off on 0:40:54.800 --> 0:40:57.560 my own and listening to you know, a lot of 0:40:57.600 --> 0:40:59.840 a lot of funk back then that I started getting 0:40:59.880 --> 0:41:03.319 in to being a little more aggressive with how I 0:41:03.320 --> 0:41:04.320 attacked my instrument. 0:41:05.160 --> 0:41:08.680 Okay, you know, I can understand the regular guitar, I 0:41:08.719 --> 0:41:13.839 cannot understand the bass. And just you know, there are 0:41:13.840 --> 0:41:17.279 many different levels what notes to play, whether you're you know, 0:41:17.320 --> 0:41:21.040 Paul McCartney playing melody on the bass, other people Bill 0:41:21.040 --> 0:41:25.239 Wyman just holding down the bass. What's the trick or 0:41:25.280 --> 0:41:27.160 is it something you're either born with or not. 0:41:28.880 --> 0:41:30.440 I don't know if there's a trick to it, but 0:41:30.480 --> 0:41:34.480 I do. It is funny seeing people that I have 0:41:34.520 --> 0:41:36.400 a friend that's a great guitar player, but when he 0:41:36.400 --> 0:41:38.160 gets on the bass, it's just a mess. I'm like, 0:41:38.520 --> 0:41:42.480 what the hell is going on here? So but to me, 0:41:42.600 --> 0:41:44.840 it's just it's four strings versus six string. I mean, 0:41:44.880 --> 0:41:48.600 I have six string basses too, So to me, the 0:41:48.640 --> 0:41:51.920 bass itself is, for me, is kind of transcended what 0:41:52.040 --> 0:41:55.280 it is theoretically supposed to be. It's it just happens 0:41:55.280 --> 0:41:57.040 to be the crayon that I picked out of the box. 0:41:57.080 --> 0:41:59.080 I'm still painting the same pictures I probably would have 0:41:59.080 --> 0:42:03.799 painted with what ever instrument. But but so back then, though, 0:42:03.880 --> 0:42:06.320 it was, you know, I was just learning and getting 0:42:06.320 --> 0:42:08.359 my way around, and I'm holding down the route you're 0:42:08.400 --> 0:42:13.600 playing the root of the chord, you know. But once 0:42:13.640 --> 0:42:16.880 I started seeing guys like Lewis Johnson and Larry Graham 0:42:17.040 --> 0:42:21.080 and Stanley Clark tear into that thing, that it just 0:42:21.200 --> 0:42:24.200 changed my whole perspective on how to approach the instrument. 0:42:25.520 --> 0:42:29.600 Okay, you know, how do you figure what notes to 0:42:29.640 --> 0:42:31.000 play on a fretless bass? 0:42:32.800 --> 0:42:35.040 I mean, it's it's the same principle. It's just you're 0:42:35.239 --> 0:42:40.359 you're you're, you have a you're able to loosely interpretate 0:42:40.520 --> 0:42:42.760 interpret the note, you know. I mean, you could still 0:42:42.920 --> 0:42:47.960 get warbliness out of a fretted instrument by using vibrato 0:42:48.000 --> 0:42:50.480 and whatnot. But with the fretless you can slide in 0:42:50.520 --> 0:42:53.759 and out of the note, and and it's it's a 0:42:53.760 --> 0:42:59.120 little more uh, liquid sounding, I would say, but it's 0:42:59.160 --> 0:43:00.320 the same thing. You kind of. I got to know 0:43:00.320 --> 0:43:00.919 where you're going. 0:43:02.080 --> 0:43:05.880 Okay, So you form this band, you're probably playing in 0:43:05.920 --> 0:43:09.400 somebody's living room or garage. Do you play any gigs live? 0:43:12.000 --> 0:43:15.680 Our first gig, well, the very first gig I played, 0:43:15.680 --> 0:43:18.680 and it's actually in the high school yearbook for that year, 0:43:20.200 --> 0:43:23.520 and Kirk still remembers being in the audience was in 0:43:23.560 --> 0:43:26.880 the cafeteria of DeAnza High School. And I was so 0:43:27.200 --> 0:43:30.799 petrified that I stood sideways. I couldn't face the crowd. 0:43:30.840 --> 0:43:34.040 I stood sideways the entire time with my bell bottom 0:43:34.600 --> 0:43:38.399 chord zone and my platform shoes, and you know, and 0:43:38.560 --> 0:43:39.200 there we were. 0:43:40.640 --> 0:43:43.480 Kirk wanted you to sing. So in this new band, 0:43:43.520 --> 0:43:44.680 were you singing at all? 0:43:45.280 --> 0:43:45.400 No? 0:43:46.400 --> 0:43:52.160 I still barely sing, I just I didn't finish puberty 0:43:52.200 --> 0:43:54.200 until I was like twenty nine, so my voice was 0:43:54.239 --> 0:43:58.200 cracking all over the place I would have been awful. 0:43:59.680 --> 0:44:01.719 Was like, I just didn't have I. 0:44:01.600 --> 0:44:04.000 Didn't Okay, I got to go back to that joke, 0:44:04.280 --> 0:44:06.879 you didn't finish puberty until you were twenty nine. 0:44:07.080 --> 0:44:08.680 What are you actually saying there? 0:44:09.160 --> 0:44:11.400 It took me forever I grow in a mustache. It 0:44:11.440 --> 0:44:13.480 took me forever to be able to grow a mustache. 0:44:13.719 --> 0:44:15.840 My dad always had a mustache. I want a mustache. 0:44:16.080 --> 0:44:19.160 I mean, I'm you know, I'm joking a bit, but 0:44:19.320 --> 0:44:21.200 I was well into my twenties before I was able 0:44:21.200 --> 0:44:23.000 to grow a mustache. 0:44:23.480 --> 0:44:25.759 What about your history with girls back then? 0:44:27.960 --> 0:44:36.560 I had some girls, Okay, So on that level, purity worked, yes, yes, okay. 0:44:37.200 --> 0:44:38.799 So by time I went I. 0:44:38.760 --> 0:44:41.319 Went from I went from like I went from like 0:44:41.600 --> 0:44:45.560 five foot tall in ninth grade over the summer to 0:44:45.800 --> 0:44:48.600 six foot one. So I was like, went from little 0:44:48.600 --> 0:44:52.360 skinny guy to tall, skinny guy within a matter of months. 0:44:54.320 --> 0:44:55.880 And how did that change your life? 0:45:00.640 --> 0:45:03.200 I'm sure changed my life in many many ways. But 0:45:03.760 --> 0:45:07.120 I was definitely one of those late bloomer guys that 0:45:07.280 --> 0:45:13.440 was you know, I remember my my first you know, 0:45:13.520 --> 0:45:16.640 going into the locker room at June and Junior high 0:45:16.680 --> 0:45:18.799 and I'm, you know, there's a little less sitting down 0:45:18.840 --> 0:45:21.359 and I look over and I can't remember the guy's name, 0:45:21.360 --> 0:45:23.399 but he's he went through puberty, and he had this 0:45:23.480 --> 0:45:26.080 big giant bush with this big dogger hanging out, and 0:45:26.120 --> 0:45:29.080 I'm bald as an acorn sitting there, going, what the 0:45:29.120 --> 0:45:31.840 hell is going on here? And I you know, it's 0:45:31.880 --> 0:45:35.560 it's it's it's uh, it's intimidating when you're the only 0:45:35.600 --> 0:45:38.759 guy and and and by the time you get to 0:45:38.840 --> 0:45:41.120 ninth grade, you're counting your pubes, just waiting to when 0:45:41.200 --> 0:45:45.200 you can catch up with everybody else. So so the 0:45:45.239 --> 0:45:48.319 height was just just a portion of of of of 0:45:49.640 --> 0:45:52.560 building my self esteem. 0:45:52.719 --> 0:45:56.880 Okay, your name is Leslie short Less. I know a 0:45:57.080 --> 0:46:00.160 number of people from my father's generation with the name 0:46:00.280 --> 0:46:03.680 less Leslie, but it's not common amongst people your age. 0:46:03.840 --> 0:46:05.800 Was that an issue growing up? People give you a 0:46:05.840 --> 0:46:08.000 shit for your name, happy with your name? 0:46:10.560 --> 0:46:14.160 Well, so I have mentioned Papa Simoni as the guy 0:46:14.160 --> 0:46:17.800 with the humor and who we've named the a Wiener 0:46:17.840 --> 0:46:22.080 after at the tasting room. He left the planet several 0:46:22.160 --> 0:46:26.000 years ago. But my parents were very young. My mom 0:46:26.040 --> 0:46:28.160 was seventeen when I was born. My dad was nineteen 0:46:28.320 --> 0:46:31.319 and her mom was sixteen or seventeen when she was born, 0:46:31.360 --> 0:46:34.360 so my grandparents were very young. My grandfather was thirty 0:46:34.400 --> 0:46:40.080 four years old when I showed up, and needless to say, 0:46:40.120 --> 0:46:42.560 he was pretty pissed off that his sixteen year old 0:46:42.640 --> 0:46:45.640 daughter had got knocked up by this guy with grease 0:46:45.719 --> 0:46:48.279 back hair and a cigarette pack rolled up in his 0:46:48.600 --> 0:46:52.399 in his T shirt sleeve, you know, so to gain 0:46:52.520 --> 0:46:56.400 favor with and that's why we called him Papa. You 0:46:56.560 --> 0:46:59.120 want to be called grandpa. So to gain favor with Papa, 0:46:59.160 --> 0:47:01.640 they named him. They named me after him. He was 0:47:01.840 --> 0:47:06.759 Leslie Edward Simoni. I'm Leslie Edward Claypool. As a kid, 0:47:06.800 --> 0:47:08.680 the name Leslie, it's a girl's name, that's a girl. 0:47:08.719 --> 0:47:10.680 I heard it all the time, but it was like whatever, 0:47:12.120 --> 0:47:16.720 it could have been worse. And my father's name is Lynn, 0:47:16.840 --> 0:47:20.160 and so he kind of grew up a similar thing 0:47:20.280 --> 0:47:24.080 had he had a girl's name, as kids would say. 0:47:24.960 --> 0:47:30.160 But I have no issue with it now. I was 0:47:30.160 --> 0:47:33.719 one of those guys because I wasn't big. I just 0:47:33.760 --> 0:47:36.880 tried to be funny. You know, there's that old Richard 0:47:36.880 --> 0:47:38.680 Pryor joke about when he went to prison, he made 0:47:38.680 --> 0:47:40.880 the guys laugh so they wouldn't get the boutet. 0:47:41.120 --> 0:47:41.279 You know. 0:47:41.400 --> 0:47:43.400 I made guys laugh so I wouldn't get beat up. 0:47:43.440 --> 0:47:46.040 You know. It was like, hey, there's Less. Yeah, he's 0:47:46.040 --> 0:47:48.520 a funny guy, you know. So it kept the It 0:47:48.680 --> 0:47:50.680 kept most of the bullies a big but there's always 0:47:50.680 --> 0:47:52.120 some bully that just wants to be a dick. 0:47:53.040 --> 0:47:55.920 And then were you always Less? Who were you ever? Leslie? 0:47:56.360 --> 0:47:59.840 I was Leslie when I was little, but then I 0:48:00.600 --> 0:48:03.320 became became less. There was a lot of nicknames slung 0:48:03.360 --> 0:48:06.040 around too. We always had nicknames all of our buddies. 0:48:06.360 --> 0:48:08.799 Right, And was your name less or did you have 0:48:08.880 --> 0:48:09.759 another nickname? 0:48:10.840 --> 0:48:14.720 I've had many nicknames over the years, so but less 0:48:14.760 --> 0:48:16.080 has been what people call me. 0:48:16.640 --> 0:48:18.880 Well, it's a very interesting thing because people don't have 0:48:19.000 --> 0:48:21.319 nicknames anymore. I mean, I'm really a bit older. Oh 0:48:21.360 --> 0:48:23.600 I'm a little bit older. You All the baseball players 0:48:23.600 --> 0:48:27.560 had nicknames, no, and there was no such thing as David. 0:48:27.719 --> 0:48:31.279 David was always Dave and all this other stuff. You know, 0:48:31.440 --> 0:48:35.000 I'm raw, I was never Robert. I was always Bob. 0:48:35.600 --> 0:48:39.280 But whatever. So by time you graduate from high school, 0:48:39.320 --> 0:48:41.800 what's the status of your musical career. 0:48:46.840 --> 0:48:54.440 I was really into a lot of funk and what 0:48:54.719 --> 0:49:00.360 was called fusion at the time, like Stanley Clark, Clark Project, 0:49:00.480 --> 0:49:03.719 Ronnie Laws, Dixie Dregs, things like that. 0:49:04.400 --> 0:49:08.960 He as far out as Weather Report and Maha vishn 0:49:09.160 --> 0:49:10.080 Orchestra or not. 0:49:11.160 --> 0:49:13.920 A little bit. Not as much. I tended to like 0:49:14.000 --> 0:49:16.080 the things. It had to be funky or I just 0:49:16.200 --> 0:49:21.280 wasn't that into it, you know. And I never really 0:49:21.360 --> 0:49:24.400 went deep into the jocko world because I was a 0:49:24.520 --> 0:49:26.840 Stanley Clark guy. You know, I wanted to see that, 0:49:28.560 --> 0:49:31.000 you know, I wanted Larry Graham. You Larry Graham just 0:49:31.040 --> 0:49:34.840 blew my mind. But as I was graduating in high school, 0:49:34.840 --> 0:49:36.200 that was when I you know, I was a huge 0:49:36.280 --> 0:49:40.200 rushead throughout all of it. That was they were my guys, 0:49:40.239 --> 0:49:41.239 you know, until. 0:49:41.000 --> 0:49:43.520 I Okay, wait, wait, a couple of questions here. Why 0:49:43.680 --> 0:49:46.120 is funk centered in the Bay Area. You talk about 0:49:46.160 --> 0:49:49.239 Graham Central Station, et cetera. It's a hot bet of funk. 0:49:49.239 --> 0:49:50.359 Do you have any ideas there? 0:49:51.080 --> 0:49:53.400 Well, I mean there's also I mean, there's Minneapolis funk, 0:49:53.440 --> 0:49:57.080 there's Cincinnati funk, you know, talking to Bootsy a while 0:49:57.120 --> 0:49:59.640 back and I was like, hey, Bootsy, so who's who's 0:50:00.000 --> 0:50:01.880 who is the funkiest of all time? And he was like, 0:50:01.920 --> 0:50:05.359 Ohio Players, Man, Ohio Players, they were the funkiest by far. 0:50:06.080 --> 0:50:08.439 And so it just sort of depends on what kind 0:50:08.480 --> 0:50:13.640 of funk it's. It's it's regional, you know, like you 0:50:13.680 --> 0:50:15.960 listen to Minneapolis funk, it's got a different feel to 0:50:16.000 --> 0:50:20.520 it than like New Orleans funk. So but yes, Larry 0:50:20.520 --> 0:50:22.560 Graham and Slicestone coming out of the Bay Area, that 0:50:22.640 --> 0:50:23.480 was pretty sweet. 0:50:24.360 --> 0:50:26.759 Okay, So what's the status of funk today in the 0:50:26.760 --> 0:50:27.600 world of music? 0:50:28.320 --> 0:50:30.279 Shit, I don't know. I'm an old guy. What the 0:50:30.320 --> 0:50:36.200 hell do I know. I'd have no idea, to be 0:50:36.239 --> 0:50:37.520 honest with you, I really don't. 0:50:38.600 --> 0:50:40.719 Well, it certainly isn't dominant, but everything, you know, the 0:50:40.719 --> 0:50:46.040 whole landscape has changed. But going back to okay, how 0:50:46.040 --> 0:50:47.640 did you get into Rush? 0:50:48.120 --> 0:50:52.040 And that was my first concert. So I remember my 0:50:52.120 --> 0:50:56.040 buddy Jeff Webster, who was the guy who had all 0:50:56.080 --> 0:50:58.160 the records and he had the fancy stereo in the 0:50:58.200 --> 0:51:01.160 dough Boy swimming pool. We picked out things to listen 0:51:01.160 --> 0:51:02.759 to by the cover, you look at the cover. Oh, 0:51:02.800 --> 0:51:04.120 we got to listen to this. This has got to 0:51:04.160 --> 0:51:06.080 be amazing. And so one day I picked up the 0:51:06.080 --> 0:51:08.799 cover and there's this guy sitting there in a chair 0:51:09.120 --> 0:51:10.799 with all this rubble behind him, and it was rushed 0:51:10.800 --> 0:51:12.160 for all the kings we put it on. It's like, 0:51:12.160 --> 0:51:17.120 oh my god. So I got turned on to rush. 0:51:17.160 --> 0:51:19.919 And then when I became a when I was talking 0:51:19.920 --> 0:51:21.879 about picking up the base, it was Geddy was the guy. 0:51:22.400 --> 0:51:28.480 And we got tickets to well, a bunch of friends 0:51:28.520 --> 0:51:30.920 of mine got tickets to go see the Hemispheres show 0:51:30.960 --> 0:51:33.600 at the Cow Palace. And I didn't have a ticket, 0:51:33.600 --> 0:51:35.080 but I had some money, and I hopped in the 0:51:35.120 --> 0:51:37.440 car with these guys and Dan Maloney, he was the 0:51:37.480 --> 0:51:40.840 older brother of these two twins Joe and Mike Maloney 0:51:41.160 --> 0:51:43.640 that I knew, and he was like the guy would 0:51:43.640 --> 0:51:45.239 buy his beer. He was old enough to get his beer. 0:51:45.239 --> 0:51:47.640 And on he drove drove us all to the Cow 0:51:47.719 --> 0:51:51.479 Palace to see Hemispheres, and we bought some. He bought 0:51:51.480 --> 0:51:53.520 some low Umbrow on the way there, but he would 0:51:53.880 --> 0:51:57.080 buy it from Nick's Delicatessen, which never kept the beer 0:51:57.200 --> 0:51:59.839 quite cold enough because open top. So it was kind 0:51:59.840 --> 0:52:02.200 of warm low umbrowse So I drank three low umbrows 0:52:02.239 --> 0:52:06.200 and my you know, ninety pound body, and you know, 0:52:06.360 --> 0:52:07.920 got there and threw up in the parking lot and 0:52:07.960 --> 0:52:10.160 bought a scout ticket even though the show wasn't sold out, 0:52:10.800 --> 0:52:15.400 and just watched this show that completely totally blew my 0:52:15.480 --> 0:52:18.240 mind and changed my life. It was Pat Travers opening 0:52:18.600 --> 0:52:20.600 for Rush on the Hemispheres tour, so I got to 0:52:20.600 --> 0:52:23.399 see Mars on Base, which was amazing, got to see 0:52:23.440 --> 0:52:26.799 Tommy Aldridge do this incredible solo and do you know, 0:52:26.840 --> 0:52:31.120 play with his bare hands, and then Rush just and 0:52:31.480 --> 0:52:34.320 watching the signus that rossa Nante going through the black 0:52:34.320 --> 0:52:36.880 hole on my my little fourteen year old mind was 0:52:36.960 --> 0:52:42.640 just percolating. So that was my intro into Rush. 0:52:42.920 --> 0:52:46.279 Well, I think Rush started on Mercury then went to Atlantic. 0:52:46.760 --> 0:52:48.799 If you go to a Rush show I saw the 0:52:48.840 --> 0:52:52.160 second and last tour, there are very few women in 0:52:52.200 --> 0:52:55.000 the audience. I mean, if you meet these guys. Of 0:52:55.080 --> 0:52:59.800 course one's dead now, very nice guys from Canada explain 0:53:00.280 --> 0:53:02.719 magic and why it's such a male thing. 0:53:04.400 --> 0:53:06.840 You know, I think it's a lot like it's a 0:53:06.840 --> 0:53:09.319 lot like being a treky, you know, It's like it's 0:53:09.320 --> 0:53:12.440 one of those. It's kind of a guilty pleasure, very devout, 0:53:12.640 --> 0:53:19.479 devoted group of individuals, somewhat obsessive. You know, they weren't 0:53:19.480 --> 0:53:22.320 writing songs about partying and chicks and all this stuff. 0:53:22.320 --> 0:53:26.040 They were writing about you know, black holes and and 0:53:26.360 --> 0:53:31.600 ships named Rossinante and battling evil forces and dungeons and 0:53:31.680 --> 0:53:34.839 dragons and all this cool mythological stuff that was that 0:53:35.000 --> 0:53:40.480 was enticing for guys that maybe the Red sci Fi 0:53:40.680 --> 0:53:47.200 or were trekys. But and then the musicality was just insane. 0:53:47.600 --> 0:53:49.320 It would blow my mind when people go, ah, I 0:53:49.360 --> 0:53:52.200 don't like Rush. I was like, what are you talking about? 0:53:52.520 --> 0:53:54.759 You know, some people were rubbed a little bit the 0:53:54.800 --> 0:53:57.839 wrong way by Getty's voice, But you know it's like 0:53:58.360 --> 0:54:00.600 John Lydon. You know, John Lydon's one of my favorite 0:54:00.680 --> 0:54:02.759 singers of all time. You know, some people don't like 0:54:02.760 --> 0:54:05.960 the sound of John's voice, but there's a character to 0:54:06.000 --> 0:54:10.440 it that's unbelievable. Fits the tone, fits the aesthetic of 0:54:10.480 --> 0:54:11.080 what they're doing. 0:54:12.360 --> 0:54:15.680 And how do you feel is a Rush fanatic that 0:54:15.719 --> 0:54:17.400 they've hung it up? Do you think they should get 0:54:17.440 --> 0:54:18.719 another drummer go on the road. 0:54:19.719 --> 0:54:22.000 Well, we just played with them recently. You know, I 0:54:22.080 --> 0:54:27.319 keep pretty good contact with Geddy. I really don't know. 0:54:27.360 --> 0:54:30.520 That's kind of their thing. It's that's a tough one, 0:54:30.640 --> 0:54:34.319 you know. That's that's a that's a kinship and a 0:54:35.000 --> 0:54:38.320 and being in a band. It's it's it's like a 0:54:38.440 --> 0:54:41.400 it's a it's a marriage. It's there's all the same emotions. 0:54:41.440 --> 0:54:44.799 There's all the same drama and pleasure, and you know, 0:54:44.880 --> 0:54:49.239 there's you know, besides rolling around under the sheets. But 0:54:49.719 --> 0:54:52.799 the it's a it's a very it's it's a very 0:54:52.800 --> 0:54:57.960 tight bond. And so it's not for me to say 0:54:57.960 --> 0:55:02.719 what they should do, to be honest with you, but uh, 0:55:02.800 --> 0:55:04.440 it would be an it would be an interesting thing 0:55:04.480 --> 0:55:06.080 to see for sure. And I have seen him. I 0:55:06.080 --> 0:55:08.680 mean they played with us, so I've seen him play 0:55:08.840 --> 0:55:13.920 without without Neil. But I mean it's like The Police 0:55:13.920 --> 0:55:16.400 without Stuart Copeland. It just doesn't seem to it just 0:55:16.800 --> 0:55:18.560 it would be, it would be. 0:55:18.680 --> 0:55:21.720 The difference is is that Steing goes on the road, 0:55:22.280 --> 0:55:27.600 whereas life sinning Getty appear to be retired. 0:55:29.520 --> 0:55:31.480 I know Alex has a he has a new project 0:55:31.520 --> 0:55:33.200 that he's doing with some friends. I've heard it, and 0:55:33.200 --> 0:55:37.520 it's it's it's it's cool. I think, like anything, you 0:55:37.520 --> 0:55:42.719 you you move through your life, and you you reflect 0:55:42.840 --> 0:55:47.520 what's interesting to you at that particular time. And if 0:55:47.760 --> 0:55:53.360 they become nostalgic about it or or or what have you, 0:55:54.000 --> 0:55:56.680 they'll go and do it, I would think. But I'm 0:55:56.760 --> 0:55:59.200 not sure if right now they're they're they're they're fields. 0:55:59.239 --> 0:56:02.120 Okay, just staying with that nostalgic point. Even you too 0:56:02.840 --> 0:56:06.840 is playing complete albums. Now, you're a guy who's constantly evolving. 0:56:06.960 --> 0:56:08.600 How do you feel about nostalgia? 0:56:11.040 --> 0:56:14.439 I mean, I love nostalgia, but there's also a part 0:56:14.480 --> 0:56:16.920 of me that that's I have a little bit of 0:56:17.880 --> 0:56:20.880 I love nostalgia as a as a fan, you know, 0:56:20.960 --> 0:56:23.839 I love it. It's it's it's it's an amazing, wonderful thing. 0:56:25.000 --> 0:56:28.600 As a musician, a creative person, I like to keep 0:56:28.719 --> 0:56:30.640 moving forward. It's hard for me, Like we're trying to 0:56:30.719 --> 0:56:32.839 do all these live records, these Primus live records. It's 0:56:32.880 --> 0:56:34.239 hard for me to listen to them because I'm like, 0:56:35.239 --> 0:56:37.480 you know, I'll listen to them, and I it's fun, 0:56:38.040 --> 0:56:40.520 but I'd rather hear some new stuff. I'd rather keep 0:56:40.600 --> 0:56:43.160 moving forward. But as a fan, and I know I 0:56:43.200 --> 0:56:45.239 speak for a lot of fans, people come to your 0:56:45.239 --> 0:56:47.319 shows they want to see, they want to they want 0:56:47.360 --> 0:56:49.279 to see, they want to see those songs that made 0:56:49.320 --> 0:56:53.000 them feel like they did when they were in nineteen 0:56:53.080 --> 0:56:56.000 ninety eight and they were hanging out, you know, wakeboarding 0:56:56.080 --> 0:56:59.240 on some lake or whatever, whatever, whatever, They can associate 0:56:59.280 --> 0:57:01.960 it with good times, bad times, whatever it is. Music 0:57:02.239 --> 0:57:05.680 is the It's like a smell. It brings you back 0:57:05.719 --> 0:57:08.319 to a certain time in your life and hopefully those 0:57:08.320 --> 0:57:14.279 are good times. And so I think, as a fan, 0:57:14.400 --> 0:57:16.640 you want to see that, but I do. I also 0:57:16.840 --> 0:57:19.520 like the Miles Davis theory, which was he just wanted 0:57:19.520 --> 0:57:21.200 to keep going forward. He'd never want to play anything. 0:57:21.200 --> 0:57:22.720 He didn't want to go back and play that stuff. 0:57:22.800 --> 0:57:26.880 You know, to what degree do you personally feel a 0:57:26.960 --> 0:57:28.640 responsibility to your audience. 0:57:29.440 --> 0:57:32.320 Well, when I'm in primus mode, I feel that responsibility 0:57:32.360 --> 0:57:37.240 and we go out and we play. We play a 0:57:37.400 --> 0:57:41.160 smattering of we don't have hits, but there's those ones 0:57:41.200 --> 0:57:44.439 that people recognize. But I also know that people really 0:57:44.520 --> 0:57:46.800 dig it when we dig deep into something that we 0:57:47.000 --> 0:57:50.120 played twice back in ninety six or whatever. You know, 0:57:50.320 --> 0:57:53.840 people like that. That's part of the deep fandom and 0:57:53.960 --> 0:57:57.000 I think that's what that's what we cater to because 0:57:57.040 --> 0:57:59.320 that's part of ourselves. But I've always said since the 0:57:59.400 --> 0:58:03.120 get go, as a selfish person, I like to go 0:58:03.200 --> 0:58:05.920 out and play what I want to play because I 0:58:06.040 --> 0:58:09.400 feel like if I'm enjoying what I'm doing, that will translate, 0:58:10.000 --> 0:58:12.640 whereas if I'm going I won't name any names, but 0:58:12.760 --> 0:58:16.000 I've met some musicians that have had some big ass 0:58:16.120 --> 0:58:19.840 hit and it's not necessarily it's kind of like a 0:58:20.480 --> 0:58:23.200 Poppy Ballady thing and they go, oh my god, we 0:58:23.280 --> 0:58:25.320 got to play that damn song again. I wish we 0:58:25.360 --> 0:58:26.840 could just be like you guys and just go play 0:58:26.880 --> 0:58:29.720 all this crazy shit, you know. So I'm kind of 0:58:29.760 --> 0:58:33.040 glad we're not tethered by something like that because we've 0:58:33.080 --> 0:58:38.240 never really had that big hit, you know. But I 0:58:38.320 --> 0:58:41.920 also like counterbalancing that by going out and doing like 0:58:42.080 --> 0:58:45.240 my Bastard Jazz project, where we just show up and 0:58:45.440 --> 0:58:48.720 just start jamming and it's unbelievable. It's so much fun, 0:58:49.120 --> 0:58:50.280 so I get to scratch that itch. 0:58:51.880 --> 0:58:54.360 Do you feel that you have a large enough dedicated 0:58:54.480 --> 0:58:57.360 fan base that they'll follow you or whatever you want 0:58:57.400 --> 0:58:59.480 to do, or you ever do something and say, well, 0:58:59.520 --> 0:59:01.720 shit me people, people aren't going to be interested in 0:59:01.800 --> 0:59:02.160 this one. 0:59:04.000 --> 0:59:08.320 I just don't think that way. When I did think 0:59:08.400 --> 0:59:11.720 that way, I got in trouble. And I say that 0:59:12.360 --> 0:59:14.760 back going back to like the Antipop era, you know, 0:59:15.120 --> 0:59:16.800 all of a sudden, we had done this record, the 0:59:16.840 --> 0:59:18.920 Brown Album, which we were so proud of, and we 0:59:18.960 --> 0:59:21.280 had taken all these chances, and it was super low 0:59:21.400 --> 0:59:25.880 fi and old school, and it just didn't resonate as well. 0:59:26.000 --> 0:59:28.479 But then again, it resonated better with other people. 0:59:28.600 --> 0:59:28.760 You know. 0:59:28.880 --> 0:59:31.360 Tom Waits once told me that's his favorite Primus record. 0:59:31.480 --> 0:59:32.360 That means the. 0:59:32.440 --> 0:59:33.040 World to me. 0:59:34.720 --> 0:59:38.680 But then going in to do Antipop and here in 0:59:38.760 --> 0:59:40.600 the you guys might want to work with a producer. 0:59:40.640 --> 0:59:42.280 Hey maybe you should work with this guy. Hey maybe 0:59:42.480 --> 0:59:45.480 I'll bring somebody in to do this, and be second 0:59:45.520 --> 0:59:47.920 guessing and starting the second guest and starting to think, oh, well, 0:59:48.000 --> 0:59:50.160 we used to get the radio, we used to get MTV, 0:59:50.320 --> 0:59:53.560 how do we get that again? And for many years 0:59:53.600 --> 0:59:56.760 I couldn't even listen to Antipop because I remember that 0:59:56.920 --> 0:59:58.720 time is just not a very pleasant time. There was 0:59:58.720 --> 1:00:01.080 a lot of second guessing. It was when we started 1:00:01.120 --> 1:00:04.240 not really getting along so well. It just kind of sucked. 1:00:04.640 --> 1:00:08.600 But now as time goes by and you know, the 1:00:08.960 --> 1:00:11.760 edges of rode off of things and you can remember 1:00:11.800 --> 1:00:14.200 the good times, as we do with everything in our lives, 1:00:14.960 --> 1:00:16.400 I can listen to it and go, wow, that's actually 1:00:16.440 --> 1:00:18.120 kind of cool. I Sonically, I think it's a great 1:00:18.200 --> 1:00:21.560 sounding record. But when we came back to it, like 1:00:21.640 --> 1:00:24.800 when we just did the consparanoia thing with Primus, it 1:00:24.920 --> 1:00:28.920 was we did when we're not thinking about MTV or 1:00:29.360 --> 1:00:31.040 which we have in a long time, or radio or 1:00:31.040 --> 1:00:32.960 any of that stuff. I think we made better stuff 1:00:33.640 --> 1:00:35.640 in the early days. We never thought we were going 1:00:35.720 --> 1:00:38.680 to I remember having a meeting with our attorney after 1:00:38.840 --> 1:00:42.520 our it was either our first or second record, and 1:00:42.920 --> 1:00:46.120 we got offered a publishing deal and it was a 1:00:46.240 --> 1:00:48.400 considerable amount of money, and he was like, you know, 1:00:48.680 --> 1:00:50.720 the only way this publishing deal is going to be 1:00:50.760 --> 1:00:52.880 bad for you is if you sell over one hundred 1:00:52.960 --> 1:00:55.520 thousand records. Do you honestly believe you're going to sell 1:00:55.560 --> 1:00:57.920 over one hundred thousand records? And we're like, yeah, one 1:00:57.960 --> 1:01:00.800 hundred thousand records. That's a shitload of records. We never 1:01:00.840 --> 1:01:02.840 thought we were gonna get on radio or MTV or 1:01:02.880 --> 1:01:05.280 any of that stuff and we sold way more than 1:01:05.320 --> 1:01:06.400 one hundred thousand records. 1:01:06.480 --> 1:01:17.840 So okay, since you keep mentioning him, how do you 1:01:18.000 --> 1:01:18.840 meet Tom Waite? 1:01:20.320 --> 1:01:24.640 Well, I was a big Tom Waits fan way back 1:01:24.680 --> 1:01:27.400 in the day. A friend of mine's mom. She always 1:01:27.440 --> 1:01:29.640 had this really cool she was a very good friend. 1:01:31.160 --> 1:01:33.360 She had amazing taste. She was one turned me onto 1:01:33.360 --> 1:01:38.000 the Residence and all that Snake Finger, all that Ralph 1:01:38.080 --> 1:01:41.200 record stuff. But she played me some Tom Waits one day. 1:01:41.200 --> 1:01:43.160 I was like, holy shit, this is amazing. And then 1:01:43.200 --> 1:01:45.760 my buddy Joe Gore played me Rain Dogs when it 1:01:45.840 --> 1:01:49.160 came out, and I was like, holy shit, this is unbelievable. 1:01:49.200 --> 1:01:50.640 So I was a big Tom Waits fan. I was 1:01:50.680 --> 1:01:53.800 turning on Lure and everybody onto Tom Waits at first. 1:01:53.800 --> 1:01:55.520 I remember playing. I was like, you gotta hear Tom Waits, 1:01:55.560 --> 1:01:57.600 and Lure thought, I said John Waite, which was like 1:01:57.920 --> 1:02:01.120 the singer for Candy or something, and he's like, what 1:02:01.200 --> 1:02:04.720 the hell are you talking about. But when we went 1:02:04.800 --> 1:02:08.320 to do our first record with Interscope, we had this 1:02:08.400 --> 1:02:11.439 song Tommy the Cat, which we deliberately did not put 1:02:11.520 --> 1:02:13.560 on the Frizzle Fry record because we wanted it to 1:02:13.680 --> 1:02:17.120 be on whatever our major label release was going to be. 1:02:18.120 --> 1:02:21.040 Because Frizzle Fry we recorded ourselves. We're originally going to 1:02:21.080 --> 1:02:25.560 put it on ourselves. But so I was talking to 1:02:25.640 --> 1:02:30.240 Tom Wally, who is our champion at Innerscope, and I said, 1:02:30.280 --> 1:02:32.440 you know, I'd love to just get somebody else to 1:02:32.520 --> 1:02:34.160 be the voice of Tommy the Cat, you know, some 1:02:34.560 --> 1:02:37.160 interesting character, someone like Tom Waits. He's like, well, why 1:02:37.200 --> 1:02:39.640 don't we get Tom Waits. I said, what the hell, 1:02:39.880 --> 1:02:42.480 what do you mean that you can do that. He's like, yeah, 1:02:42.880 --> 1:02:44.840 you know, we'll get a hold of him mis management. 1:02:45.200 --> 1:02:46.200 So I wrote him this letter. 1:02:46.320 --> 1:02:46.800 Hey, you know. 1:02:47.560 --> 1:02:50.360 So we were recording at Fantasy Records and Lure was 1:02:50.480 --> 1:02:52.720 I had left me and Lern had an apartment in Berkeley, 1:02:53.360 --> 1:02:55.280 and I'd gone home for something to left Lurr to 1:02:55.360 --> 1:02:58.400 do his guitar solos. I get home and I click 1:02:58.480 --> 1:03:01.680 on the the answering machines. 1:03:02.360 --> 1:03:04.280 Hey less, says Tom. 1:03:04.400 --> 1:03:08.880 Tom Waite's yeah, yeah, I've been listening to this song. Yeah, 1:03:08.920 --> 1:03:10.439 that would be a wonderful thing, because I had said 1:03:10.440 --> 1:03:11.720 it would be a wonderful thing if you did this. 1:03:12.000 --> 1:03:13.600 And I called Laura. I'm like, oh my god, Laura, 1:03:13.640 --> 1:03:15.240 you got to hear this. I put the phone over there, 1:03:15.720 --> 1:03:18.320 and Tom came down and he did the voice of 1:03:18.640 --> 1:03:21.160 Tommy the Cat, and he brought his son, Casey, who 1:03:21.280 --> 1:03:23.120 was four years old at the time. And I've known 1:03:23.160 --> 1:03:26.800 Casey ever since. But we just kind of kept in touch, 1:03:26.880 --> 1:03:29.320 and I moved up to the country kind of near 1:03:29.400 --> 1:03:32.760 where he lived, and we just have always kept in touch. 1:03:32.840 --> 1:03:34.680 And I played on a bunch of his records, and 1:03:35.400 --> 1:03:38.760 I've turned him on to some musicians, and I know 1:03:38.840 --> 1:03:43.040 his family. He's him and Kathleen. They're great, They're amazing people, 1:03:43.120 --> 1:03:44.440 great people, good friends. 1:03:45.160 --> 1:03:49.320 Okay, you talk about Trey, you talk about Tom Waite, 1:03:49.440 --> 1:03:53.920 you talk about Stuart Copeland. Is that your personality to 1:03:54.240 --> 1:03:57.400 really make friends with everybody, know everybody? Or are you 1:03:57.520 --> 1:03:59.720 more of a homebody or you in contact with people 1:03:59.720 --> 1:04:00.400 all the time? 1:04:01.040 --> 1:04:02.520 Those are the only three people I know? 1:04:03.520 --> 1:04:04.040 Oh really? 1:04:05.600 --> 1:04:13.760 Now? Ah, I don't know. I've been very fortunate that, 1:04:14.600 --> 1:04:19.720 you know, I've I've always said this is that I've 1:04:19.800 --> 1:04:22.880 got to meet and befriend a lot of my heroes, 1:04:23.240 --> 1:04:28.000 and pretty much all of them have been really unbelievable. There's, 1:04:28.400 --> 1:04:31.320 you know, been a couple of instances with some film 1:04:31.360 --> 1:04:33.440 stars it's been a little weird, and there's been you know, 1:04:33.640 --> 1:04:37.520 but for the most part, everybody's been spectacular and unbelievable 1:04:37.960 --> 1:04:43.200 and and they've become my friends and oftentimes collaborators. So 1:04:44.840 --> 1:04:47.720 to me, that's the greatest thing about anything I've done, 1:04:47.840 --> 1:04:51.680 besides being a father. I'm very proud of my children, 1:04:51.960 --> 1:04:58.480 my family. But when I think about that stuff, you know, 1:04:58.720 --> 1:05:00.800 like I said, you know, it's like I'm in a 1:05:00.840 --> 1:05:06.120 band with Stuart Copeland, which that's to me, that's like 1:05:06.680 --> 1:05:09.160 John Bonham, Stuart Copland, those are those are the guys. 1:05:09.840 --> 1:05:12.480 But he's also one of my closest friends. He's like, 1:05:12.680 --> 1:05:15.760 he's we just chitchat about bullshit. 1:05:15.880 --> 1:05:16.040 You know. 1:05:16.520 --> 1:05:17.800 That's an amazing thing to me. 1:05:18.280 --> 1:05:21.040 You know, Okay, what do I know if you're a 1:05:21.160 --> 1:05:24.160 regular musician as opposed to someone with a name. People 1:05:24.200 --> 1:05:27.920 are networking all the time for work. So the nature 1:05:28.000 --> 1:05:29.600 of those people, as I say, a lot of these 1:05:29.640 --> 1:05:31.760 people are not front people. They are certainly from people 1:05:31.760 --> 1:05:34.080 who do a lot less networking back then and now. 1:05:35.240 --> 1:05:40.120 And it's one thing to meet famous people, and I've 1:05:40.160 --> 1:05:44.480 met a zillion, it's another thing to keep up the relationship. 1:05:45.040 --> 1:05:48.560 There are certain people I've met. Every time we connect, 1:05:48.680 --> 1:05:51.840 you know, we have a great time. But my identity, 1:05:51.960 --> 1:05:54.920 my personality is I'm not going to reach out to them. 1:05:55.120 --> 1:05:57.840 Someone has to keep it. He keep hitting the ball 1:05:58.520 --> 1:06:01.960 back over the net to keep it Owen. That sounds 1:06:02.000 --> 1:06:03.360 like that's part of your personality. 1:06:03.360 --> 1:06:05.160 Well, I like that analogy. I like the way you 1:06:05.280 --> 1:06:08.920 phrased that. I mean, look, first of all, I'm the 1:06:09.080 --> 1:06:13.120 worst guy when it comes to famous people or people 1:06:13.160 --> 1:06:16.080 that I respect. Like if I if you know, I 1:06:16.200 --> 1:06:20.000 had an opportunity one time. I had a film in 1:06:20.080 --> 1:06:23.760 this film festival in London, and and there was this 1:06:23.840 --> 1:06:26.000 Beatles film, the Beatles Documentary in there too, and George 1:06:26.040 --> 1:06:27.680 Martin was there, and I had an opport toay, hey, 1:06:27.680 --> 1:06:29.120 you want to meet George. I was like, I cannot 1:06:29.120 --> 1:06:30.800 meet George Martin. I don't want to meet I can't 1:06:30.800 --> 1:06:34.720 meet George Martin because if it wouldn't have been perfect, 1:06:35.120 --> 1:06:36.960 if he would have been in a bad mood, which 1:06:37.000 --> 1:06:38.760 we all get in bad moods, and we're not always 1:06:39.040 --> 1:06:43.120 as gracious as maybe we should be, it would have 1:06:43.360 --> 1:06:45.840 it would have tainted something to me that is one 1:06:45.840 --> 1:06:50.320 of the most influential, glorious things of any creativity. I've 1:06:50.720 --> 1:06:55.400 that I've absorbed into my into my consciousness. So I 1:06:55.560 --> 1:06:57.720 just wanted to admire on the far. I didn't want 1:06:57.720 --> 1:06:59.480 to meet Santa Claus. I wanted to you know, I 1:06:59.600 --> 1:07:01.080 met his on he was a great guy and met 1:07:01.080 --> 1:07:03.080 a couple of people who worked for him. But I 1:07:03.280 --> 1:07:08.320 couldn't meet George. And I'm totally fine with that. I've 1:07:08.440 --> 1:07:11.560 never been that guy that when there's There was one 1:07:11.600 --> 1:07:15.920 time I was doing this conference in it was a CMJ, 1:07:16.080 --> 1:07:18.240 I had a CMJ thing and and Lemmy had just 1:07:18.280 --> 1:07:20.600 spoke before me, and he was like in this in 1:07:20.720 --> 1:07:22.680 this in the dressing room, and they were like, oh, 1:07:22.720 --> 1:07:23.840 go on and meet let me go in, and I 1:07:23.960 --> 1:07:25.600 was I was like, what am I going to say 1:07:25.640 --> 1:07:28.400 to Lemmy? I'm not that guy that goes up hoody dude, 1:07:28.440 --> 1:07:30.960 how's going? I really like your stuff. I've never been 1:07:31.000 --> 1:07:34.080 good at that. If I meet somebody on a you know, 1:07:34.840 --> 1:07:38.800 and it's meant to be, you know, we're getting a 1:07:38.840 --> 1:07:40.840 sandwich at the table or what, I don't know. I'm 1:07:40.880 --> 1:07:42.680 not good at going up and being that guy. 1:07:42.880 --> 1:07:47.160 Never have been, and I don't know. 1:07:48.480 --> 1:07:52.240 Okay, So so my relationships are based on just like, hey, 1:07:52.360 --> 1:07:54.640 we all like any other friends you meet that you 1:07:54.720 --> 1:07:55.600 happen to hit it off with. 1:07:56.800 --> 1:08:01.360 Okay, two things. I not to having pictures taken. I 1:08:01.400 --> 1:08:04.440 don't need a wall of fame. Two I've learned I 1:08:04.480 --> 1:08:06.680 won't talk to anybody unless they know who I am. 1:08:07.200 --> 1:08:11.520 That's not something meaning my status. It's just otherwise it's unfulfilling. 1:08:11.560 --> 1:08:13.840 They're just shaking your hand in another person out there, 1:08:13.920 --> 1:08:17.960 you're testifying. But I am not good at keeping the 1:08:18.040 --> 1:08:22.080 relationship going. So my question is are you the person 1:08:22.160 --> 1:08:24.040 hey and me? Well, give me your phone number, your 1:08:24.080 --> 1:08:26.320 email address, let's keep it going, and then you email 1:08:26.320 --> 1:08:27.120 them what's up now. 1:08:27.360 --> 1:08:30.800 I'm terrible at that. In fact, my wife is way 1:08:31.120 --> 1:08:34.040 better at that type of thing. My social life would 1:08:34.040 --> 1:08:35.840 be awful if it wasn't for her. You know, I 1:08:35.920 --> 1:08:39.040 have my few fishing buddies, and that's kind of kind 1:08:39.040 --> 1:08:44.080 of what I do. But it's funny because I have 1:08:44.160 --> 1:08:45.640 friends that whenever they show up in a town, that 1:08:45.720 --> 1:08:46.960 get their book out and they go, oh, I'm gonna 1:08:46.960 --> 1:08:48.640 call such and such and such a I never do 1:08:48.800 --> 1:08:50.280 any of that. I show up in town. I'm there 1:08:50.360 --> 1:08:50.920 to do my job. 1:08:51.000 --> 1:08:51.679 I do my job. 1:08:51.720 --> 1:08:55.240 If I see somebody that I know that happened to 1:08:55.280 --> 1:08:56.680 come to the show. That's a wonderful thing. 1:08:56.760 --> 1:08:57.320 But I don't. 1:08:57.880 --> 1:09:00.240 I very very rarely seek them out. But my life 1:09:00.280 --> 1:09:02.000 will because she's good at that stuff. 1:09:03.680 --> 1:09:07.360 Okay, so you meet Tom Waits, you meet Stuart Coplan. 1:09:07.439 --> 1:09:09.440 How does it turn into a friendship. 1:09:10.160 --> 1:09:12.960 Well, I mean, like I said, it's because we bonded 1:09:13.040 --> 1:09:16.439 over things besides, hey, how you doing. You're Tom Waits. 1:09:16.520 --> 1:09:20.080 You know, we bonded over other things. It's like like 1:09:20.160 --> 1:09:22.080 any other friendship. I mean, how often do you meet 1:09:22.120 --> 1:09:25.759 somebody at the at the hardware store, at some friends 1:09:25.880 --> 1:09:28.920 party and you keep up with them? It's sometimes you do, 1:09:29.080 --> 1:09:31.840 sometimes you don't. It depends on if you click in 1:09:31.960 --> 1:09:32.519 other ways. 1:09:33.240 --> 1:09:35.240 Well, I find as you get older, it's like I 1:09:35.320 --> 1:09:39.000 was listening to a podcast and was it Rob Reiner saying, 1:09:39.000 --> 1:09:41.160 you know you can't show up at anybody's house anymore. 1:09:41.160 --> 1:09:43.120 You show up somebody's house, it's going to blow their mind. 1:09:43.280 --> 1:09:46.439 You know, you a criminal whatever. And it's harder to 1:09:46.560 --> 1:09:49.280 make new friends, not as hard in this business maybe 1:09:49.360 --> 1:09:54.120 for other people. But you mentioned phishing off handedly. Are 1:09:54.160 --> 1:09:55.559 you like a big fisher person? 1:09:56.360 --> 1:10:02.360 Well, like I said, my are all mechanics. We didn't 1:10:02.400 --> 1:10:05.840 go to On weekends. When I go visit my dad, 1:10:05.960 --> 1:10:09.360 we were either working on some crappy rental property that 1:10:09.439 --> 1:10:12.960 my grandmother owned, or we were out fishing. That's what 1:10:13.040 --> 1:10:14.960 we did. We didn't go to baseball games. We didn't 1:10:14.960 --> 1:10:16.960 go to football games. He wasn't a sports guy. We 1:10:17.000 --> 1:10:19.679 would go fishing with my uncles and even my grandfather. 1:10:19.680 --> 1:10:21.720 I'd go fishing with my So it's just one of 1:10:21.800 --> 1:10:23.840 those things that I grew up with and I very much. 1:10:24.640 --> 1:10:27.479 I enjoy it. To me, when I go fishing, I'm 1:10:27.520 --> 1:10:29.839 not thinking about anything else. It's like people that go golfing. 1:10:29.920 --> 1:10:34.120 They're just in the game and that's it. So that's 1:10:34.800 --> 1:10:37.320 been my thing since since I was a little guy. 1:10:38.120 --> 1:10:39.600 How often do you go fishing? Do you go to 1:10:39.680 --> 1:10:43.120 Alaska in Chile to go fishing or you just guy, 1:10:43.240 --> 1:10:46.679 you know, doing it occasionally in the same area. 1:10:46.920 --> 1:10:50.680 Well, I keep a boat out in Badega Bay. So, 1:10:51.200 --> 1:10:53.679 but they canceled salmon season this year because the counts 1:10:53.720 --> 1:10:55.519 were low, so it's not going to be as much 1:10:55.560 --> 1:10:58.680 fishing this year. But the blue fin came in last year, 1:10:58.680 --> 1:11:00.479 which was an amazing thing. I didn't get one, but 1:11:00.520 --> 1:11:02.960 I went out and chased him around. I have a pond. 1:11:03.120 --> 1:11:06.720 If I point that way, about two hundred yards that way. 1:11:06.800 --> 1:11:08.920 We have a pretty good sized pond that there's some 1:11:09.040 --> 1:11:11.920 bass in it. If I'm inclined, I can sneak down there. 1:11:11.920 --> 1:11:13.280 I used to take the kids down there all the time, 1:11:14.479 --> 1:11:16.880 pop some bass and look at them and toss them 1:11:16.880 --> 1:11:20.240 back in the water. It's just to me, it's very relaxing. 1:11:21.840 --> 1:11:23.920 Okay, you talk about the pond. How much property do 1:11:24.040 --> 1:11:24.200 you have. 1:11:25.120 --> 1:11:26.680 We've got about thirty seven acres here. 1:11:27.880 --> 1:11:29.760 How close is your closest a neighbor. 1:11:33.040 --> 1:11:34.040 A couple hundred yards? 1:11:34.960 --> 1:11:39.880 Oh okay. So you graduate from high school, you say 1:11:39.960 --> 1:11:43.960 you want to do music? What's the next step? And 1:11:44.080 --> 1:11:46.439 you say you have a day job? What's going on there? 1:11:46.479 --> 1:11:48.840 You say you're a fan of funk? Confusion at that time? 1:11:48.920 --> 1:11:49.719 What's the next step? 1:11:51.320 --> 1:11:58.479 Well, my father always said he was very supportive. Actually, 1:11:58.479 --> 1:12:00.120 I mean, he's got me my first base. And I 1:12:00.160 --> 1:12:01.920 didn't even find out till years later that he got 1:12:01.960 --> 1:12:04.080 shipped from his family like what the. 1:12:04.080 --> 1:12:04.599 Hell are you doing? 1:12:04.680 --> 1:12:06.479 He's going to become a drug addict, the blah blah, 1:12:06.520 --> 1:12:12.200 you know, you know, they couldn't understand, and but he 1:12:12.280 --> 1:12:14.880 always used to tell me, hey, this music thing's great. 1:12:15.160 --> 1:12:16.880 He knew that it was keeping me out of trouble. 1:12:17.000 --> 1:12:18.960 You know, he watched my cousin go. You know, my 1:12:19.040 --> 1:12:22.559 cousin went and ended up eventually in jail. And if 1:12:22.600 --> 1:12:24.760 you don't keep and I still believe this to this day, 1:12:25.320 --> 1:12:29.000 is anytime a kid shows an interest in anything that 1:12:29.160 --> 1:12:32.240 gives them some form of focus, it keeps them. They're 1:12:32.280 --> 1:12:35.080 less appt to get in trouble. And he knew it 1:12:35.120 --> 1:12:37.160 was going to keep me, keep me from going and 1:12:37.360 --> 1:12:44.200 doing just you know, mundane stupid shit. So he always 1:12:44.240 --> 1:12:45.960 told me, He's like, hey, this music thing's great, but 1:12:46.120 --> 1:12:48.080 learn a trade. Learn a trade, Learn a trade so 1:12:48.120 --> 1:12:49.600 they have something to fall back on. I have a 1:12:49.640 --> 1:12:52.320 shitload of trades. I used to bust tires, I used 1:12:52.320 --> 1:12:55.280 to mix auto paints. I was a shipping receiving guy. 1:12:55.880 --> 1:12:59.240 I was a bench tech at an audio company, and 1:12:59.400 --> 1:13:02.040 eventually I was a carpenter, which I really enjoyed, actually 1:13:03.080 --> 1:13:05.760 so until we started printing our own T shirts. And 1:13:06.600 --> 1:13:12.360 that's was my last job. But so I had the 1:13:13.360 --> 1:13:18.479 fortune and misfortune of getting my heart completely destroyed. When 1:13:18.520 --> 1:13:20.280 I graduated high school. I had a girlfriend. I was 1:13:20.320 --> 1:13:21.880 going to marry her, and she was like the hot 1:13:21.960 --> 1:13:25.200 girl of the school, and she just destroyed me. I 1:13:25.439 --> 1:13:31.200 was a total wreck and I ended up meeting this guy. 1:13:31.960 --> 1:13:34.120 A little bit slower. How did she destroy you just. 1:13:34.160 --> 1:13:37.120 By like dumping me, well, not really dumping me, but 1:13:37.560 --> 1:13:40.160 she opted to not be with me anymore. 1:13:40.560 --> 1:13:44.760 And okay, wait, wait, usually there's a choice. She's not 1:13:44.960 --> 1:13:47.920 with less, there's somebody else, or she's moving away, or 1:13:48.000 --> 1:13:50.240 she's going to college she envisions a better future. 1:13:50.280 --> 1:13:52.080 No, no, let's not. I gotta get too deep. But 1:13:52.640 --> 1:13:55.639 let's just say everybody wanted to be with this girl, 1:13:55.800 --> 1:13:57.519 so she had a lot of options. 1:13:57.880 --> 1:14:00.439 But anyway, okay, the obvious, the obvious question is where 1:14:00.520 --> 1:14:01.040 is she today? 1:14:02.040 --> 1:14:07.240 I have no idea, but but she looked like Marie Osmond. 1:14:07.400 --> 1:14:08.320 Let's just put it that way. 1:14:08.439 --> 1:14:13.560 You you right, You're enough for me? But okay, no, 1:14:14.000 --> 1:14:14.600 definitely not. 1:14:14.920 --> 1:14:17.920 She was a cross between Marie Osmond and Pat Benattar. 1:14:18.120 --> 1:14:18.760 She had that look. 1:14:18.800 --> 1:14:22.160 Okay, so there you go. But anyway, I got my 1:14:22.200 --> 1:14:24.559 heart broke, so I wanted to get the hell out 1:14:24.600 --> 1:14:28.400 of my little town of else Branty. My friend Kathy Quavis, 1:14:28.479 --> 1:14:30.160 who had turned me on to the residence and Tom 1:14:30.200 --> 1:14:32.040 Waits and all this stuff. Her son was this punk 1:14:32.120 --> 1:14:35.000 rock dude and he was always going to shows in Berkeley. 1:14:35.040 --> 1:14:36.880 I said, hey, man, if you get the tickets, I'll 1:14:36.960 --> 1:14:39.400 drive because I had my sixty eight Cougar. So next 1:14:39.439 --> 1:14:41.240 thing you know, I'm hanging out with him in San Francisco. 1:14:41.400 --> 1:14:43.400 Wait, sixty eight cougar is kind of a cool car. 1:14:43.479 --> 1:14:45.240 And you end up with a sixty eight Cougar. 1:14:45.360 --> 1:14:47.360 That was my first car. That was my that was 1:14:47.600 --> 1:14:49.639 it was a beautiful car. Well, I told you, we're 1:14:49.680 --> 1:14:51.840 all out on mechanics, so I bought this sixty eighth. 1:14:51.960 --> 1:14:54.320 My dad bought the sixty eight Cougar for me like 1:14:54.400 --> 1:14:57.519 fifteen hundred bucks and we fixed it up. So anyway, 1:14:58.920 --> 1:15:01.040 so we would spend all this time going to Berkeley 1:15:01.080 --> 1:15:04.400 and San Francisco to go to all these shows. And 1:15:04.600 --> 1:15:08.439 I eventually moved to Berkeley and to basically get away 1:15:08.600 --> 1:15:11.879 from the the you know, the heartache of this this breakup. 1:15:12.240 --> 1:15:16.160 And it changed my life for the better because a 1:15:16.600 --> 1:15:22.400 there's the level of progressive people in else Brownie versus Berkeley. 1:15:22.880 --> 1:15:25.599 It's quite a bit different. So I was meeting these people, 1:15:25.720 --> 1:15:28.759 these artists, and these different these people from different cultures 1:15:28.880 --> 1:15:31.840 and go into shows every single night, going to comedy shows, 1:15:31.880 --> 1:15:36.120 hanging out of the Berkeley Square and really got just 1:15:36.240 --> 1:15:39.200 turned onto a lot of amazing, amazing stuff in a 1:15:39.360 --> 1:15:42.040 very short period of time. So that's when I started 1:15:42.080 --> 1:15:46.960 getting into more you know, abstract music, I guess you'd 1:15:47.000 --> 1:15:50.080 call it, getting into like early Peter Gabriel and Public 1:15:50.120 --> 1:15:54.559 Image Limited and the old Ralph record stuff and Fred 1:15:54.680 --> 1:15:58.280 Frith and some of the material stuff and just things 1:15:58.320 --> 1:16:02.519 that were my friends. And Elsea Brady would say, what's 1:16:02.600 --> 1:16:07.840 this weird ass shit you're listening to? So that was 1:16:07.960 --> 1:16:09.720 kind of for me. That was that was a big 1:16:09.960 --> 1:16:13.280 blossoming for me as an as a human and as 1:16:13.280 --> 1:16:13.719 an artist. 1:16:15.960 --> 1:16:18.160 Okay, you're listening to all that stuff. What about your 1:16:18.240 --> 1:16:20.160 playing the bass in your professional career? 1:16:21.000 --> 1:16:23.920 Well, at the time, I was playing in this in 1:16:24.000 --> 1:16:26.760 this R and B band called the Tommy Crank Band, 1:16:26.880 --> 1:16:30.040 which these guys were all way older than me, and 1:16:30.120 --> 1:16:35.000 we play literally play the biker bars all you Antioch 1:16:35.080 --> 1:16:38.120 and Sam Pablo and I'd play three to five nights 1:16:38.120 --> 1:16:40.720 a week, four sets a night, playing Old Booker T 1:16:40.880 --> 1:16:44.960 and the MG's and Sam and Dave and James Brown 1:16:45.120 --> 1:16:47.360 and the meters a lot of stuff that I didn't 1:16:47.360 --> 1:16:50.720 even realize what it was until years later. But these 1:16:50.760 --> 1:16:54.040 guys were all older than me and it it was 1:16:54.080 --> 1:16:56.799 a wonderful experience. That was that was part of my paycheck. 1:16:56.840 --> 1:16:58.320 I would do that at night and then have my 1:16:58.439 --> 1:17:01.519 day gig and that. At the time, I was trying 1:17:01.560 --> 1:17:03.479 to get a band going, and I eventually in nineteen 1:17:03.520 --> 1:17:07.680 eighty four started this band called Primate and it and 1:17:08.439 --> 1:17:11.800 we made a demo and it Actually. 1:17:11.640 --> 1:17:14.800 Before you get there, you're playing in the R and 1:17:15.000 --> 1:17:19.640 B band at night. What is the dream? Because you 1:17:19.720 --> 1:17:22.280 have to have a dream sustain you, otherwise lace too hard. 1:17:23.080 --> 1:17:26.160 Well, my dream was to be a professional musician, but 1:17:26.320 --> 1:17:27.439 play my own stuff. 1:17:28.080 --> 1:17:30.920 So I okay, so you were writing your own stuff, 1:17:31.000 --> 1:17:32.760 you knew what kind of music you wanted to make. 1:17:32.840 --> 1:17:35.640 Then I had been playing. Look I was back then 1:17:35.640 --> 1:17:38.280 there was BAM magazine, Bay Area Music Magazine. Of course 1:17:38.320 --> 1:17:39.720 I'd look in the back of BAM you know who 1:17:39.800 --> 1:17:42.720 needs a bass player? And I auditioned for everybody there was. 1:17:43.320 --> 1:17:45.439 I auditioned for everybody that needed a bass player, and 1:17:45.479 --> 1:17:49.280 there was just nothing I found exciting. And there was 1:17:49.320 --> 1:17:53.880 a band called the Hoovers that I remember talking to them. 1:17:53.960 --> 1:17:55.400 They were a ska band and they were pretty cool, 1:17:55.439 --> 1:17:59.320 but they didn't want me. But other than that, there 1:17:59.400 --> 1:18:02.599 was nothing that I found exciting. So I decided, I'm 1:18:02.640 --> 1:18:04.120 going to start my own thing, and I want to 1:18:04.160 --> 1:18:08.040 combine all these weird elements. And I just made some 1:18:08.240 --> 1:18:12.800 tapes in my apartment and then this guitar player called me. 1:18:12.840 --> 1:18:14.600 He said, hey, hear. I knew him high school. He's like, 1:18:14.600 --> 1:18:15.960 I here, You're looking for a guitar player. And I 1:18:16.000 --> 1:18:17.720 just thought, yeah, there's no way. This guy he was, 1:18:17.840 --> 1:18:21.040 you know, he's he's he's from Panol and you know, 1:18:21.080 --> 1:18:23.640 I'm a birdy guy now, and he's more conservative and 1:18:23.680 --> 1:18:27.439 he plays like Tony Iomi and and you know, I 1:18:27.560 --> 1:18:30.920 want someone who's like Adrian Blue or or Robert Fripp. 1:18:31.439 --> 1:18:33.439 And he came and played for me, played with me, 1:18:33.560 --> 1:18:35.680 and he's he's a freak. He's still a freak to 1:18:35.760 --> 1:18:37.760 this day. He has we call it Todd time. He 1:18:37.800 --> 1:18:42.040 has the craziest sense of time and melody. And that 1:18:42.160 --> 1:18:45.680 became the early Primate. It was Primate, and we made 1:18:45.680 --> 1:18:49.120 a recording and we got we're getting airplay on a 1:18:49.160 --> 1:18:54.439 local radio station called the Quake. And then I find. 1:18:54.479 --> 1:18:56.720 I get this phone call one day on my answering machine. Again, 1:18:57.880 --> 1:19:01.040 hey Les or whoever to whom it may concern, or 1:19:01.080 --> 1:19:03.599 whatever it was. I my name is such and such. 1:19:03.640 --> 1:19:07.200 I represent a band called the Primates, and you must 1:19:07.240 --> 1:19:09.920 cease and desist because we own that name. So we 1:19:09.960 --> 1:19:12.479 had to change our name, and subsequently we changed it 1:19:12.760 --> 1:19:16.160 to Primus. Years later, this is like maybe three or 1:19:16.160 --> 1:19:19.160 four years ago, I meet this guy and he's like, 1:19:19.160 --> 1:19:21.040 I don't know if you remember me, but I'm such 1:19:21.080 --> 1:19:23.200 and Such. I was in a band called the Primates. 1:19:23.360 --> 1:19:26.040 I was like, yeah, your attorney called me and said 1:19:26.120 --> 1:19:29.200 cease and desist. And he's like, yeah, that was me. 1:19:29.320 --> 1:19:30.200 I was just bullshit and. 1:19:30.240 --> 1:19:37.160 I was like, so, so you make this independent record. 1:19:37.880 --> 1:19:41.200 Continue the narrative, Well, we had made a bunch of 1:19:41.240 --> 1:19:43.760 we made demo tapes for years before, you know, nothing 1:19:43.880 --> 1:19:46.120 was happening. We were playing. Nobody knew what to do 1:19:46.200 --> 1:19:50.519 with us. Michael Bailey, who booked the the Berkeley Square, 1:19:50.680 --> 1:19:53.080 was really the first guy that kind of went, wow, 1:19:53.120 --> 1:19:54.960 you guys have something going. I'm going to just book you. 1:19:55.040 --> 1:19:56.960 And he would book us with you know, we played 1:19:57.000 --> 1:19:59.680 with the Swans, we played with the Papo, Pies, but 1:19:59.800 --> 1:20:02.800 we never really fit in with anybody, you know, And 1:20:03.000 --> 1:20:07.240 then all of a sudden, along came, you know, Fishbone 1:20:07.280 --> 1:20:09.360 and the Chili Peppers and Faith No More and bands 1:20:09.439 --> 1:20:11.240 like that, and all of a sudden there was bands 1:20:11.280 --> 1:20:13.600 that we could play with, we could open for, and 1:20:14.520 --> 1:20:16.600 and then the whole scene kind of started in the 1:20:16.640 --> 1:20:22.240 Bay Area with Limbo Maniacs and Csycopunk Pus and and 1:20:22.760 --> 1:20:26.400 Fungo Mungo, these these bands that we kind of had 1:20:26.400 --> 1:20:30.479 a scene in Mister Bungle, of course, and it just 1:20:30.600 --> 1:20:33.040 kind of it kind of blossomed from there. 1:20:41.280 --> 1:20:45.080 Okay, but you're still working your day job, you're playing 1:20:45.160 --> 1:20:50.320 some live gigs, you're making tapes in the uh bedroom. 1:20:51.720 --> 1:20:54.439 What do you expect to happen? And how active are 1:20:54.520 --> 1:20:57.360 you trying to make that happen? Well? 1:20:58.400 --> 1:21:01.120 I was very active as far as you know. We'd 1:21:01.320 --> 1:21:03.080 rehearse three or four days a week, and we'd go 1:21:03.200 --> 1:21:06.000 do our gigs, and you know, one day you'd play 1:21:06.080 --> 1:21:08.599 for ten people, next day you play for twenty people, 1:21:08.680 --> 1:21:10.400 and hopefully the next day it's forty people. But then 1:21:10.439 --> 1:21:12.200 there's you get a little lull period and then you know, 1:21:12.240 --> 1:21:17.479 we're slowly building this thing. But back then, it wasn't 1:21:17.600 --> 1:21:19.799 like now where you could record an album on your laptop, 1:21:19.920 --> 1:21:23.560 you know. I made that little demo of in the 1:21:23.640 --> 1:21:25.479 early days on a FASTEC But after that we would 1:21:25.479 --> 1:21:28.280 go into studios. So basically, me and Todd would save 1:21:28.400 --> 1:21:31.120 up every year, we'd save up one thousand dollars and 1:21:31.200 --> 1:21:34.040 we'd book because you could get a real studio for 1:21:34.120 --> 1:21:37.479 one thousand dollars a day. So we would book a 1:21:37.560 --> 1:21:40.760 studio for one day, twenty four hours, and we would 1:21:40.800 --> 1:21:43.400 start and we'd spend the entire twenty four hours. We'd 1:21:43.479 --> 1:21:46.679 record like three or four songs and record and mix 1:21:46.720 --> 1:21:48.639 it all in that twenty four hour period, which I'm 1:21:48.680 --> 1:21:51.920 sure just killed the engineers, you know, They'm sure they 1:21:51.960 --> 1:21:54.920 hated it. But we would do that once a year, 1:21:55.080 --> 1:21:56.840 so it took you know, it took a handful of 1:21:56.960 --> 1:22:00.639 years before any of these demo tapes caught on because 1:22:00.680 --> 1:22:03.080 back then there was a there was a whole trading 1:22:03.120 --> 1:22:04.760 of the demo tapes, and it was kind of big 1:22:04.840 --> 1:22:06.479 in the metal world. But I wasn't. We weren't really 1:22:06.520 --> 1:22:08.760 in the metal world at that point. We were we 1:22:08.840 --> 1:22:13.960 were we were in our own zone. But eventually we 1:22:14.040 --> 1:22:16.200 made a demo tape that got that caught on and 1:22:16.240 --> 1:22:18.960 people were buying it, and it was the Sausage Demo, 1:22:19.880 --> 1:22:23.640 which is actually to this day is pretty coveted on 1:22:23.720 --> 1:22:26.719 the internet if you can find it. And then eventually 1:22:26.760 --> 1:22:29.400 we recorded the suck On this record by borrowing some 1:22:29.520 --> 1:22:32.559 money from my father. He loaned us three thousand dollars 1:22:32.600 --> 1:22:34.200 so we could print up a thousand records. 1:22:36.280 --> 1:22:41.479 Okay, you're how old and how many years since the 1:22:41.600 --> 1:22:42.400 thing begins? 1:22:44.200 --> 1:22:47.200 So suck On this came out and I can't for 1:22:47.240 --> 1:22:49.320 it's eighty eight or eighty nine. And I had started 1:22:49.360 --> 1:22:52.679 the band in eighty four. Todd had left the band 1:22:52.720 --> 1:22:57.519 because he had a couple kids and we had our 1:22:57.560 --> 1:23:01.320 drummer was in a different band, so he was we're 1:23:01.360 --> 1:23:04.519 not focused. So I knew Larry Laan from playing with 1:23:04.600 --> 1:23:07.080 this other band, and I said, hey, just come join 1:23:07.160 --> 1:23:09.040 the band, because he was my buddy more than anything. 1:23:09.800 --> 1:23:13.439 And and then we auditioned this guy, Tim Alexander, who 1:23:14.160 --> 1:23:18.439 you know. He became the guy and we made that record. 1:23:18.479 --> 1:23:20.439 They hadn't been in the band, they hadn't been in 1:23:20.520 --> 1:23:22.360 the band more than a couple of months, and we 1:23:22.479 --> 1:23:25.479 made that record, and Primus was actually pretty popular we 1:23:25.560 --> 1:23:27.920 were selling out local clubs. So I was scared to 1:23:27.960 --> 1:23:29.760 death because all of a sudden, both my guys were 1:23:29.800 --> 1:23:31.519 gone and I was starting with two new guys. And 1:23:31.600 --> 1:23:35.040 I was just very fortunate that because, as you know, 1:23:35.880 --> 1:23:39.560 chemistry is you can't beat chemistry, and you lose it, 1:23:39.840 --> 1:23:44.200 you replace an artist, and oftentimes it throws that chemistry 1:23:44.200 --> 1:23:46.880 out of whack more often than not. But I got 1:23:46.960 --> 1:23:49.760 very lucky that the three of us had a really 1:23:49.800 --> 1:23:52.040 good chemistry and it caught on in a way, you know. 1:23:53.360 --> 1:23:55.840 But Primus has always been a slow burn. There's people go, oh, 1:23:56.080 --> 1:23:59.720 when did you become famous? It's like, well, may even 1:23:59.760 --> 1:24:02.120 fame yet, you know, We've always been that under the 1:24:02.200 --> 1:24:04.840 radar guys. You know, I've had friends that have these 1:24:04.880 --> 1:24:06.840 big peaks, but they also have the deep valleys. We've 1:24:06.840 --> 1:24:08.479 just kind of always gone, you know. 1:24:09.439 --> 1:24:14.000 So okay, so you put out the independent album and then. 1:24:16.160 --> 1:24:18.519 Yeah, we recorded it live at the Berkeley Square and 1:24:18.600 --> 1:24:21.479 we printed up a thousand copies with three thousand dollars 1:24:21.560 --> 1:24:23.320 of my dad's money, and we just drove around in 1:24:23.360 --> 1:24:25.479 my car Mageea taking him to record stores and oh, 1:24:25.560 --> 1:24:27.559 these people took five All these guys took Dan oh 1:24:27.600 --> 1:24:30.479 my god, Ah, and we were selling these things and 1:24:30.720 --> 1:24:34.240 our manager had the foresight to send them around to 1:24:34.240 --> 1:24:36.240 all the college radio stations around the country and it 1:24:36.360 --> 1:24:39.640 just caught on. So we made enough money from that 1:24:39.800 --> 1:24:42.800 record to record our second record, which was Frizzle Fry. 1:24:43.120 --> 1:24:45.720 We recorded that ourselves, and at that time we were 1:24:45.760 --> 1:24:48.840 Gavin label sniffing around us. Rough Trade had gotten involved 1:24:48.880 --> 1:24:50.840 with the first record and released some of it, and 1:24:50.920 --> 1:24:54.000 then on the second record, Caroline took took it over 1:24:54.840 --> 1:24:57.000 and we did that one record deal with Caroline and 1:24:57.080 --> 1:24:59.479 they did a fantastic job. Janet Billy over there was 1:24:59.520 --> 1:25:06.120 amazing Keith. I can't remember Keith's last name, but those 1:25:06.160 --> 1:25:07.920 were the early days when we're out there in the 1:25:07.960 --> 1:25:10.240 motor home driving around the country and just you know, 1:25:10.320 --> 1:25:13.400 it's an amazing, amazing, wonderful time. That time of where 1:25:13.400 --> 1:25:16.679 you're climbing the hill is such a wonderful, wonderful feeling, 1:25:16.800 --> 1:25:16.960 you know. 1:25:19.240 --> 1:25:21.720 And then how does that turn into a deal with 1:25:21.840 --> 1:25:22.240 inners Go. 1:25:23.680 --> 1:25:27.040 Well, it's funny because we were being courted by a 1:25:27.120 --> 1:25:32.880 few different labels and I had had bad experience with 1:25:33.240 --> 1:25:36.040 labels and producers in the early days. Just watching what 1:25:36.080 --> 1:25:38.320 had happened with friends, and I remember I think it 1:25:38.400 --> 1:25:40.240 was someone from PolyGram had gotten a hold of us 1:25:40.320 --> 1:25:44.120 early on, years before even our first record, and oh, 1:25:44.160 --> 1:25:45.720 I've been hearing a lot about you guys, and blah 1:25:45.720 --> 1:25:48.400 blah blah. No you ever think of you ever think 1:25:48.439 --> 1:25:50.720 of like changing your hairstyles? Do you ever think of 1:25:50.840 --> 1:25:53.360 maybe getting a lead singer? You know, stuff like that. 1:25:53.479 --> 1:25:55.560 And it was like, well, no, that's not what we 1:25:55.680 --> 1:25:58.040 want to do. So I was always a little leary, 1:25:58.640 --> 1:26:02.240 and so we were being courted by a couple different labels. 1:26:02.240 --> 1:26:05.960 I don't remember who, but we did a show at 1:26:06.200 --> 1:26:10.600 The Stone in San Francisco and this guy came backstage afterwards, 1:26:10.600 --> 1:26:12.719 and he had gone there to see the opening band, 1:26:12.880 --> 1:26:15.599 who were also friends of ours, not even knowing anything 1:26:15.640 --> 1:26:18.240 about us, but saw how the crowd, because our crowds 1:26:18.240 --> 1:26:21.360 would go nuts, saw how the crowd reacted. He came 1:26:21.360 --> 1:26:24.800 backstage he said, Hey, my name's Tom Wally. I'm with 1:26:24.960 --> 1:26:27.240 this new label called Innerscope, and I want to sign 1:26:27.280 --> 1:26:31.360 you guys right now. And my manager's like, well, you 1:26:31.400 --> 1:26:33.519 know we talking. Was super nice guy and a very 1:26:33.600 --> 1:26:36.400 charming guy, and my manager was like, well, you know, 1:26:36.479 --> 1:26:38.240 we really should look at this other deal because it's 1:26:38.240 --> 1:26:40.280 blah blah blah blah. And I was like, I like 1:26:40.400 --> 1:26:42.400 this guy. This guy wants to say. He had no 1:26:42.520 --> 1:26:44.960 idea that we'd already sold eighty thousand of our own records. 1:26:45.720 --> 1:26:50.320 He just saw something he liked and saw how it 1:26:50.479 --> 1:26:54.200 was resonating with these people, and he wanted it. And 1:26:54.439 --> 1:26:57.200 at the time, the only release that Interscope had was 1:26:57.240 --> 1:27:01.200 a fellow by the name of Girardi with Rico Suave. 1:27:01.920 --> 1:27:03.600 So my manager's going, what the hell, how are we 1:27:03.600 --> 1:27:05.200 going to sign with this label? Oh my god, they 1:27:05.240 --> 1:27:07.200 have no track record. Blah blahlah blah. We should stign 1:27:07.240 --> 1:27:08.960 with these other guys. I have a better And I 1:27:09.120 --> 1:27:10.840 was like, no, I like Tom Wally. 1:27:11.840 --> 1:27:13.920 He gets it. And it was. 1:27:14.400 --> 1:27:17.439 It was one of the best career moves we ever 1:27:17.520 --> 1:27:21.040 made because Tom was always he always let us do 1:27:21.080 --> 1:27:23.040 whatever we wanted for one thing, which was unheard of 1:27:23.200 --> 1:27:27.840 back then, and he was just supportive and he's just 1:27:27.880 --> 1:27:29.880 a great guy. He's a good human, you know. So 1:27:30.439 --> 1:27:31.280 it worked out for us. 1:27:32.160 --> 1:27:34.120 Okay, how did you get a manager and how long 1:27:34.200 --> 1:27:35.960 did that particular manager last? 1:27:36.720 --> 1:27:39.080 Well, Dave Leftwitz was our first real manage. We had 1:27:39.080 --> 1:27:41.840 a couple guys like friends, my friends that were trying 1:27:41.880 --> 1:27:46.719 in the early days. But Dave he worked for David 1:27:46.800 --> 1:27:51.160 Rubinson in some capacity and had an office in his space, 1:27:51.640 --> 1:27:53.200 and he was working with some of There was a 1:27:53.280 --> 1:27:55.439 big scene in the Bay Area called the world beat 1:27:55.640 --> 1:27:58.640 scene with the Looters in Big City and Mapenze, and 1:27:58.760 --> 1:28:01.920 I actually rooted for a lot of the bands, and 1:28:02.080 --> 1:28:03.640 he was a part of that scene. And he just 1:28:03.760 --> 1:28:05.479 kind of started taking over stuff for. 1:28:05.600 --> 1:28:08.200 Us, and he just wait, wait, wait, wait, are you 1:28:08.520 --> 1:28:11.920 roadying at the same time you're playing with primates, which 1:28:12.040 --> 1:28:13.400 turns into primus. 1:28:13.720 --> 1:28:20.759 I'm at times yeah back then sure, the uh. But anyway, 1:28:20.800 --> 1:28:22.560 Dave was a big part of that scene. And he 1:28:22.760 --> 1:28:24.840 just started taking over of doing some bookings for us 1:28:24.880 --> 1:28:25.840 and this and that and the next thing. And he 1:28:25.920 --> 1:28:28.560 had a he's always had a great sense of of 1:28:29.000 --> 1:28:31.839 of marketing. He kept up. He watched all the trades 1:28:31.880 --> 1:28:33.719 and all the you know, I didn't watch that ship. 1:28:34.479 --> 1:28:41.400 And he was very instrumental in getting US scene in 1:28:41.479 --> 1:28:43.599 places where it was kind of cool to be seen. 1:28:43.960 --> 1:28:48.000 That makes sense. And then how long did he last? 1:28:48.400 --> 1:28:51.400 He was with us for a long time. He was 1:28:51.479 --> 1:28:56.360 with us until basically until the mid two thousands. 1:28:56.400 --> 1:29:01.599 I think, Okay, so you're within scopeters go very quickly 1:29:01.720 --> 1:29:05.920 turns into a machine. Uh how did that work for 1:29:06.040 --> 1:29:08.000 you or were you at arm's length? What were your 1:29:08.080 --> 1:29:09.519 interactions like with Jimmy? 1:29:10.439 --> 1:29:14.080 It took a long time for Interscope to become a machine. 1:29:14.439 --> 1:29:16.439 Interscope was like a clubhouse in the early days. We 1:29:16.520 --> 1:29:19.080 knew everybody there. They were all our friends. They'd come 1:29:19.160 --> 1:29:22.880 on the road with us. It was amazing. Didn't know 1:29:23.040 --> 1:29:26.080 Jimmy very well. In fact, I always I thought, I 1:29:26.080 --> 1:29:28.320 always thought Jimmy was amazing, because the thing about Jimmy 1:29:28.479 --> 1:29:31.200 is he didn't he didn't bullshit you. He I remember 1:29:31.280 --> 1:29:34.200 him coming into a meeting with us one time and 1:29:34.320 --> 1:29:35.840 he sat there and he's like, look, I'm going to 1:29:35.880 --> 1:29:38.760 tell you right now. I don't get Primus. I don't 1:29:38.840 --> 1:29:41.519 understand Primis. I don't know where one song starts and 1:29:41.560 --> 1:29:44.759 another one ends. He's like, but you know, Tom Wally 1:29:44.880 --> 1:29:46.599 gets you, and I get Tom Wally. 1:29:46.960 --> 1:29:47.479 And that was it. 1:29:48.680 --> 1:29:50.719 To be honest with you, I really wish I would 1:29:50.760 --> 1:29:54.280 have spent more time like getting to know Jimmy because 1:29:54.320 --> 1:29:59.280 he he he was a very interesting cat. But it wasn't. 1:29:59.360 --> 1:30:03.880 It was we weren't one of his bands, but he 1:30:04.120 --> 1:30:06.120 did chime in. He chimed in some cool stuff. It 1:30:06.240 --> 1:30:10.360 was his idea for that look of the one own 1:30:10.400 --> 1:30:13.840 as Big Brown Beaver video. He uh, he saw that 1:30:13.960 --> 1:30:15.800 Dura cell commercial. I don't know if you remember that 1:30:15.840 --> 1:30:18.280 dur cell commercial. He's like, that's Primus. That Primis has 1:30:18.280 --> 1:30:20.400 got to do something like that. So he said, and 1:30:20.520 --> 1:30:23.160 I was directing the videos back then. He said, you 1:30:23.280 --> 1:30:24.960 got to do something like that. And I was thought, well, 1:30:25.000 --> 1:30:26.840 how can we do this without just ripping off the 1:30:26.920 --> 1:30:29.639 dura cell thing. So we came up with these toy 1:30:29.720 --> 1:30:33.160 cowboys and did the one on his Big Brown Beaver video. 1:30:35.000 --> 1:30:38.520 But in Interscope, Interscope was we would have never accomplished, 1:30:38.560 --> 1:30:40.559 but we accomplished. If it wasn't for Interscope, they were 1:30:40.800 --> 1:30:41.880 spectacular to us. 1:30:43.960 --> 1:30:50.200 Okay, prior to Interscope signing you and graduating from high school, 1:30:50.800 --> 1:30:51.960 you ever think of giving up? 1:30:54.120 --> 1:30:58.439 Yes, I don't know about giving up. I mean, you're 1:30:58.439 --> 1:31:00.760 a musician because you're compelled to play your instrument. You're 1:31:00.760 --> 1:31:03.200 a musician, whether you're making five bucks or five hundred 1:31:03.200 --> 1:31:04.800 bucks a night. You know, it's just that's what you do. 1:31:05.640 --> 1:31:09.679 But there was a time when my dad and everybody 1:31:09.680 --> 1:31:11.360 were kind of like, okay, you know, I was in 1:31:11.479 --> 1:31:15.360 my I guess I was twenty three or twenty four. Hey, 1:31:15.439 --> 1:31:17.439 this said, what's good? When are you going to go 1:31:17.439 --> 1:31:19.760 to school? This music thing? What you know? And I went, 1:31:20.280 --> 1:31:22.400 I said all right, and I went to went back 1:31:22.439 --> 1:31:27.120 to school, and I to one semester of culinary school 1:31:28.360 --> 1:31:31.280 because I thought that's creative, that would be fun. And 1:31:31.520 --> 1:31:34.720 once I got in there, I realized, well, this is ridiculous. 1:31:34.840 --> 1:31:38.160 A when you leave culinary school, you start as just 1:31:38.479 --> 1:31:42.240 a schlepper. You're making minimum wage. I was already making 1:31:42.320 --> 1:31:45.920 like thirty bucks an hour as a carpenter, and the 1:31:46.320 --> 1:31:49.439 hours totally conflict with any musician. You're either a dinner 1:31:49.680 --> 1:31:52.120 you're work in the dinner shift, or you're the breakfast shift. 1:31:52.520 --> 1:31:53.960 Neither one of those is going to work for me. 1:31:54.160 --> 1:31:54.519 So I was. 1:31:54.840 --> 1:31:57.840 I realized early on it wasn't going to that wasn't 1:31:57.880 --> 1:32:00.280 going to be a good ath. 1:32:02.800 --> 1:32:08.160 Okay, So you ended up having pretty quickly big success 1:32:08.360 --> 1:32:15.519 on interscope, So what do you think. I don't know. 1:32:15.600 --> 1:32:18.400 See, the thing is, I've never thought of primus as 1:32:19.240 --> 1:32:22.439 we never had big leaps, you know, those things that 1:32:22.880 --> 1:32:27.679 happened that were interesting that came quickly, like getting on MTV. 1:32:27.800 --> 1:32:29.559 I remember when we got one hundred and twenty minutes 1:32:29.600 --> 1:32:32.120 or whatever. I remember even Kirk Hamic going, what the hell, 1:32:32.160 --> 1:32:34.120 how'd you get on MTV? We're not even on MTV, 1:32:34.240 --> 1:32:39.679 you know. So those were interesting things, but it's still 1:32:39.840 --> 1:32:43.240 primus is a is an acquired taste. You know, it's 1:32:43.320 --> 1:32:47.200 not something for everyone. So it's always been this kind 1:32:47.240 --> 1:32:50.800 of cultish thing to an extent. Even when we had 1:32:50.880 --> 1:32:55.679 little our toes dabbled slightly into the mainstream, it didn't 1:32:55.760 --> 1:32:56.360 last long. 1:32:56.520 --> 1:32:56.640 You know. 1:32:57.080 --> 1:33:03.200 It was always about this this this, this cultish fan 1:33:03.320 --> 1:33:07.680 base and somewhat obsessive fan base that's kept. That's that's 1:33:07.920 --> 1:33:10.680 made it so I could send my kids to college. 1:33:10.400 --> 1:33:15.880 You know. Okay, so that publishing deal, which if you 1:33:15.960 --> 1:33:18.200 sold Nexus of one hundred thousand was better for the 1:33:18.240 --> 1:33:22.559 publishing company at this late date. Do you own those songs? 1:33:23.240 --> 1:33:26.280 Is that we've never sold our publishing I mean the 1:33:26.640 --> 1:33:32.400 recordings are you know, those are interscripts, which is now universal, right, okay, 1:33:32.880 --> 1:33:34.720 But a lot of my stuff is my stuff, like 1:33:34.920 --> 1:33:37.000 pron Song and all that stuff. I were about to 1:33:37.080 --> 1:33:41.240 release all the pron song like Frog Brigade and the 1:33:41.320 --> 1:33:43.800 Claypool stuff. We're about to re release it because it's 1:33:44.080 --> 1:33:44.960 it all belongs to me. 1:33:46.080 --> 1:33:47.479 How did it end within her scoop? 1:33:49.200 --> 1:33:52.920 Uh? And we just kind of amicley just sort of 1:33:53.280 --> 1:33:58.120 went our separate ways, you know. I remember Steve Berman 1:33:58.200 --> 1:34:01.880 got winned in the early two thousands that we were 1:34:01.920 --> 1:34:05.519 getting back together with HERB and he said, Jimmy wants 1:34:05.560 --> 1:34:08.000 to talk to you. So Jimmy had me up into 1:34:08.080 --> 1:34:11.320 the up into his office and he said, look, he said, 1:34:11.320 --> 1:34:12.880 we want to do this. We want to do a 1:34:12.920 --> 1:34:14.960 project with you. We want to make it, make it right, 1:34:15.080 --> 1:34:17.479 make it work. We feel like we owe it to Primus. 1:34:17.520 --> 1:34:20.639 There's a lot of bands that came to Interscope because 1:34:20.680 --> 1:34:23.880 of Primus. I've talked to quite a few bands that 1:34:23.960 --> 1:34:26.120 have said, yeah, we signed with Interscope because you guys 1:34:26.160 --> 1:34:28.400 were on Interscope, because we were known that we got 1:34:28.439 --> 1:34:30.360 to do what we wanted to do. They they left 1:34:30.439 --> 1:34:32.519 us alone. As long as it was working, they left 1:34:32.600 --> 1:34:36.400 us alone. So that's when we did the animals should 1:34:36.439 --> 1:34:38.640 not try and act like people. It was like a 1:34:38.760 --> 1:34:45.200 DVD EP thing with Interscope, and you know, it worked 1:34:45.240 --> 1:34:48.439 out well. But you know, it's saying at that point 1:34:48.560 --> 1:34:52.960 they're such a big thing, that we're this odd band. 1:34:53.080 --> 1:34:57.160 I just don't think it did what any normal Primis 1:34:57.200 --> 1:34:59.640 thing would do. It wasn't going to become a you know, 1:34:59.720 --> 1:35:01.599 going Steffani hit or anything, you know what I mean. 1:35:01.800 --> 1:35:02.719 It just it wasn't. 1:35:02.760 --> 1:35:07.519 It was never in the cards. But I've never had 1:35:07.560 --> 1:35:10.280 any issues with with Interscope. It's always been They've always 1:35:10.280 --> 1:35:10.760 been okay. 1:35:10.760 --> 1:35:13.920 There's always a parting of the ways the contract is 1:35:14.080 --> 1:35:18.960 up or something, and usually the label says, well, you know, 1:35:19.560 --> 1:35:21.160 it was nice, but we don't want to make any 1:35:21.200 --> 1:35:21.839 more records. 1:35:23.400 --> 1:35:25.960 Yeah, I don't remember, to be honest with I don't 1:35:25.960 --> 1:35:28.599 even remember that because I was making my own records 1:35:28.680 --> 1:35:31.439 on pron Song, and to me, that was much more. 1:35:32.520 --> 1:35:35.280 I liked that because I owned them, you know, and 1:35:35.360 --> 1:35:39.519 I was just licensing them through different distributors. So it 1:35:39.760 --> 1:35:43.080 was it was just it was just better for me. 1:35:43.240 --> 1:35:44.880 And then when Primus came back and we did that 1:35:44.960 --> 1:35:47.559 one thing with Interscope, it wasn't part of a big deal. 1:35:49.560 --> 1:35:54.840 But I am a big fan of owning. We've owned 1:35:54.840 --> 1:35:58.840 our own stuff now since the early two thousands, you know, 1:35:58.880 --> 1:36:01.600 we released stuff through but it's all licensing, and I 1:36:01.880 --> 1:36:04.439 think that's that's the way to go. That's a wonderful thing, 1:36:04.640 --> 1:36:08.040 especially now that records are you know, it used to 1:36:08.080 --> 1:36:11.200 be that was the cupcake. You know, you make a record, 1:36:11.280 --> 1:36:12.880 that's where you made your money, and you go and 1:36:12.920 --> 1:36:14.559 do a tour. That was the icing on the cake, 1:36:14.600 --> 1:36:17.640 and then t shirts was the sprinkles. Well, now the 1:36:17.760 --> 1:36:22.200 cupcake is the touring and merch is a big part 1:36:22.240 --> 1:36:25.240 of that cupcake. And albums are like they're like business 1:36:25.280 --> 1:36:29.479 cards now, you know, they're how many people, especially kids, 1:36:29.640 --> 1:36:33.439 do you know, that buy records? They might be paying 1:36:33.520 --> 1:36:37.280 for Spotify, but they're not buying. They might buy some albums, 1:36:37.320 --> 1:36:39.880 but even albums, it's just a small, small, small, small 1:36:39.960 --> 1:36:42.599 fraction of what it used to be when you'd release 1:36:42.720 --> 1:36:44.400 recorded material on a certain format. 1:36:45.200 --> 1:36:48.280 Okay, at this late date, do you get any recording royalty, 1:36:48.400 --> 1:36:52.599 strom inter scill Yeah, Okay, so you're not upside down, 1:36:52.680 --> 1:36:55.040 you're not in the red because usually record companies they 1:36:55.120 --> 1:36:57.519 cross collaterize all the records, even though you had one 1:36:57.560 --> 1:36:59.400 successful when you had a stiff and then they don't 1:36:59.439 --> 1:37:00.599 pay you. Well. 1:37:00.880 --> 1:37:05.560 But that's another thing about Primus is we always I 1:37:06.200 --> 1:37:09.759 watched friends of mine go and make their first record, 1:37:09.800 --> 1:37:11.479 and they signed with some big deal somewhere, and they 1:37:11.520 --> 1:37:13.759 make their first record, and they spend three hundred thousand 1:37:13.800 --> 1:37:17.240 dollars making this record, and they pay the producer all 1:37:17.280 --> 1:37:21.360 this money and they sell like maybe eighty thousand copies. Well, 1:37:22.040 --> 1:37:24.960 because we didn't spend a shitload of money, eighty thousand 1:37:25.000 --> 1:37:28.639 copies is profit. That's that's a that's that's a that's 1:37:28.680 --> 1:37:31.960 a profitable venture. When you spend three hundred thousand dollars 1:37:32.000 --> 1:37:35.400 on a record plus and you only sell eighty thousand copies, 1:37:36.120 --> 1:37:38.559 people get in the room and start talking about, well 1:37:38.600 --> 1:37:41.120 this is you know. The business heads get together and go, 1:37:41.200 --> 1:37:43.439 this is not This that they make doesn't make good 1:37:43.479 --> 1:37:45.400 business sense. And away they go, and then they owe 1:37:45.479 --> 1:37:47.479 the record company all that money. All this time I 1:37:47.720 --> 1:37:52.000 was I was always very careful about spending record company money, 1:37:52.040 --> 1:37:54.080 because when all is said and done, it's your money. 1:37:54.240 --> 1:37:57.840 That's your money you're spending. So we were always very frugal. 1:37:58.040 --> 1:38:00.719 And when it came time to making videos, we would 1:38:00.760 --> 1:38:02.920 come up with these all these concepts for videos and 1:38:02.920 --> 1:38:05.719 I'd say, okay, we want to do this video. Here's 1:38:05.760 --> 1:38:08.759 the budget. It's going to cost X amount of dollars. 1:38:08.880 --> 1:38:10.840 And they would say, okay, that's a great idea for 1:38:10.880 --> 1:38:12.640 a video, but your primus, we're going to give you. 1:38:12.840 --> 1:38:13.600 Half of X. 1:38:13.920 --> 1:38:15.960 And I would say, okay, I'm going to take that 1:38:16.080 --> 1:38:18.479 half of X and make the best version of that 1:38:18.960 --> 1:38:20.640 I can. And I keep telling my son this. As 1:38:20.680 --> 1:38:24.240 a filmmaker, I'm like, look look at how many popsicle 1:38:24.240 --> 1:38:26.680 sticks you have on the table and try and make 1:38:26.720 --> 1:38:29.040 the Golden gate bridge out of it. You know, don't 1:38:30.160 --> 1:38:33.080 you know, use the resources that are available to you 1:38:33.320 --> 1:38:35.439 to make the best thing you possibly can. I think 1:38:35.479 --> 1:38:41.639 it makes you. I think it's it makes you more 1:38:42.560 --> 1:38:45.320 You have to be more resourceful on a creative level, 1:38:45.439 --> 1:38:48.799 and oftentimes I think it makes a better product because 1:38:48.880 --> 1:38:51.400 you have to kind of manipulate things. 1:38:52.120 --> 1:38:56.040 So, Okay, you talked about the money putting your kids 1:38:56.080 --> 1:38:59.840 through college, So how's it been financially for you? 1:39:02.040 --> 1:39:05.880 I mean, I'm not complaining, but you know, if I'd 1:39:05.920 --> 1:39:08.760 got the Metallica gig, I would have I would have 1:39:08.880 --> 1:39:09.599 a bigger house. 1:39:09.640 --> 1:39:13.400 They like, well, let's say you stopped working right now, 1:39:13.479 --> 1:39:15.160 you got enough money to get to the end. 1:39:16.760 --> 1:39:21.120 Ah. I tell my kids this all the time. I'm like, look, 1:39:23.000 --> 1:39:25.800 when I go, there's going to be no money, but 1:39:25.920 --> 1:39:27.479 you're going to have a hell of a yard sale 1:39:28.160 --> 1:39:33.720 because because I'm not real, I like to spend. When 1:39:33.720 --> 1:39:36.840 I was a kid, one of my heroes was Evil 1:39:36.880 --> 1:39:43.160 and Evil and uh, I remember him saying one time, 1:39:43.240 --> 1:39:44.800 and this was back in the day, he said, you know, 1:39:46.000 --> 1:39:48.560 I've made two million dollars in my career. And I 1:39:48.640 --> 1:39:50.639 might be paraphrasing. He may have said a different number, body, 1:39:50.640 --> 1:39:52.800 but you'll get the gist. You're like, I've made two 1:39:52.920 --> 1:39:55.960 million dollars in my career and I've spent four And 1:39:56.040 --> 1:39:58.240 I was like, oh my god, and so. 1:40:00.040 --> 1:40:00.519 Prended on. 1:40:01.040 --> 1:40:06.680 I got two tour buses. I mean, I don't buy 1:40:06.760 --> 1:40:08.479 stupid shit. I mean we have you know, we have 1:40:08.560 --> 1:40:10.560 our tasting room, we have our you know, we have 1:40:10.720 --> 1:40:14.200 our house here. We just but you know, I'm in primus. 1:40:14.320 --> 1:40:17.479 It's like I said, it's it's we make, we make 1:40:17.520 --> 1:40:22.120 a comfortable living. But it's these records that we don't 1:40:22.160 --> 1:40:23.680 fly around in jets. Let me put it to you 1:40:23.760 --> 1:40:24.000 that way. 1:40:24.520 --> 1:40:27.800 These records that you make and you license, are they 1:40:27.960 --> 1:40:31.000 break even propositions or red or black? 1:40:31.479 --> 1:40:33.479 No, they make they make money, but it's you know, 1:40:33.600 --> 1:40:36.400 it's not like the money that we all used to make. 1:40:36.760 --> 1:40:39.200 And I think I can I'm speaking for everybody on 1:40:39.320 --> 1:40:42.800 that right. Remember when selling a million records, it's like, oh, well, 1:40:43.240 --> 1:40:45.439 these guys sold twelve million. Now you sell one hundred 1:40:45.439 --> 1:40:46.959 thousand records, that's a big deal. 1:40:47.360 --> 1:40:51.760 You know. Okay, you talk about the videos. You know, 1:40:52.439 --> 1:40:54.719 you're a bass player, you're a member of the band. 1:40:55.520 --> 1:40:58.559 Do you just say, well, let me give a shot 1:40:58.640 --> 1:41:01.600 at that. You say, wow, I've always wanted to do 1:41:01.800 --> 1:41:03.679 this same thing with writing a book. 1:41:05.080 --> 1:41:08.479 Now I say this quite often too, is my heroes. 1:41:08.520 --> 1:41:12.200 People expect me to who are your heroes? They expect 1:41:12.240 --> 1:41:15.519 me to say, and I do say, guys like Geddy 1:41:15.560 --> 1:41:19.960 Lee and whatnot. But my superheroes are guys like you know, 1:41:20.360 --> 1:41:24.280 Frank Capra and Leah Kazan and Stanley Kubrick and the 1:41:24.400 --> 1:41:28.640 Cohen brothers and Terry Gilliam. These are people. These are 1:41:28.680 --> 1:41:32.120 the guys that really have shaped me as far as 1:41:32.120 --> 1:41:34.519 a creative person. So when it when the notion of 1:41:34.600 --> 1:41:37.720 making videos came along, I was I was ready to go. 1:41:37.960 --> 1:41:40.880 I was diving in. And even the same with my novel. 1:41:40.920 --> 1:41:43.040 It's I wrote the novel because I had written it 1:41:43.080 --> 1:41:45.120 as a screenplay, and we tried to make it into 1:41:45.160 --> 1:41:47.720 a film over and over and over again, and I 1:41:47.840 --> 1:41:50.200 finally just got to the point where, you know, the 1:41:50.280 --> 1:41:53.000 thing about filmmaking is it's much more of a collaborative process, 1:41:53.240 --> 1:41:55.600 especially when people start throwing money in there, They're going 1:41:55.680 --> 1:41:57.320 to have an opinion and you got to change stuff 1:41:57.320 --> 1:42:01.760 around and more compromising going on. So we had had 1:42:01.840 --> 1:42:04.000 so many people come on and off of this project 1:42:04.600 --> 1:42:07.760 that I was changing things continuously, and I finally I 1:42:07.840 --> 1:42:09.560 was like, look, screw this, I'm going to write this 1:42:09.920 --> 1:42:13.160 script into novel form, because then at least the story 1:42:13.240 --> 1:42:16.439 that I originally wanted to tell exists somewhere before it 1:42:16.520 --> 1:42:20.639 gets convoluted by a bunch of opinions of people with money. 1:42:20.880 --> 1:42:23.840 Not that those are bad opinions, but it does change 1:42:24.200 --> 1:42:28.080 the original narrative, I think. So I wrote the novel, 1:42:28.680 --> 1:42:29.760 so that's how I fell into that. 1:42:30.320 --> 1:42:32.759 So if you wrote a novel, do you read novels? 1:42:34.200 --> 1:42:39.560 Occasionally? I go through periods of reading a lot and 1:42:39.640 --> 1:42:42.120 then periods of reading nothing. I tend to read a 1:42:42.160 --> 1:42:48.120 lot of books about where to either place the microphone 1:42:48.560 --> 1:42:54.120 or how the Jake break System works on a eight 1:42:54.240 --> 1:42:58.080 V ninety two Detroit Diesel or now that I just recently, 1:42:58.640 --> 1:43:01.920 literally within the last month, finally got my pilot's license. 1:43:02.280 --> 1:43:04.839 I'm reading a lot about aviation. 1:43:06.840 --> 1:43:11.479 Okay, you mentioned you know all these film directors, So 1:43:11.720 --> 1:43:15.000 film directors and narrative those are your heroes more than 1:43:15.120 --> 1:43:17.960 musicians in a lot of ways. 1:43:18.720 --> 1:43:21.880 I definitely watch more film than I listened to music. 1:43:22.920 --> 1:43:25.759 So right now, are you watching contemporary film? 1:43:26.640 --> 1:43:28.920 Watched The Wail the other night. I thought it was spectacular. 1:43:29.160 --> 1:43:33.519 I was really blown away by that film about But 1:43:33.640 --> 1:43:37.400 I tend to you know, I tend to be the 1:43:37.439 --> 1:43:39.280 guy that has TCM on all the time. 1:43:42.520 --> 1:43:45.440 Okay, how about watching streaming television? 1:43:46.120 --> 1:43:48.840 Some of it I find some of it just takes 1:43:48.880 --> 1:43:52.040 over my life too much, so I avoid it until 1:43:52.120 --> 1:43:54.840 it's highly, highly highly recommended to me. 1:43:56.439 --> 1:43:57.880 Okay, what's your favorite movie? 1:43:59.120 --> 1:43:59.960 Doctor Strangelove? 1:44:01.400 --> 1:44:03.559 And if you had to mention two movies that people 1:44:03.600 --> 1:44:05.400 are unaware of that they should see. 1:44:07.720 --> 1:44:09.519 Well, if they haven't seen Doctor Strange Love, they said 1:44:09.520 --> 1:44:11.519 to see Doctor Strange Love and Facing the Crowd. 1:44:12.680 --> 1:44:15.679 Okay, so at this late date, you've got this whole 1:44:15.880 --> 1:44:19.479 career to people like me, you were in your own sphere. 1:44:19.600 --> 1:44:24.760 There's less Claypool. There's nobody quite like you now, and 1:44:24.880 --> 1:44:27.800 you're doing a lot of collaborative stuff to what the 1:44:27.920 --> 1:44:32.719 greed is your you know, inbox ding or your phone 1:44:32.840 --> 1:44:35.280 ring with people saying hey, less I want you to 1:44:35.360 --> 1:44:36.680 come work on my thing. 1:44:38.760 --> 1:44:44.640 I mean, it happens fairly regularly, and I have a 1:44:44.720 --> 1:44:47.960 hard time. I have a pretty full dance card. 1:44:49.320 --> 1:44:49.920 Or you know. 1:44:50.040 --> 1:44:53.639 I use the metaphor of pots on the stove. There's 1:44:53.680 --> 1:44:56.200 a lot of pots on my stove. It just depends 1:44:56.240 --> 1:44:58.839 on which when I pulled to the front burner. I mean, currently, 1:44:58.880 --> 1:45:02.280 I'm in the middle of two records, one me and 1:45:02.479 --> 1:45:04.719 Me and Sean Lennon are working on another Delirium record 1:45:04.800 --> 1:45:06.640 right now, and then Billy Strings and I started a 1:45:06.720 --> 1:45:11.600 record a couple months back. A few months back. Actually, so. 1:45:14.160 --> 1:45:17.120 Okay, how did you meet Sean Lennon and ended up 1:45:17.160 --> 1:45:18.200 making a record with him? 1:45:18.800 --> 1:45:22.360 Well, Sean Shawn's band, Ghost of a Saber Tooth Tiger, 1:45:22.560 --> 1:45:29.680 opened for Primus on a tour, and funny thing was 1:45:29.760 --> 1:45:31.519 him and my son really hit it off right off 1:45:31.560 --> 1:45:33.360 the back because they're both like these kind of poin 1:45:33.439 --> 1:45:36.080 Dexter science nerds, and they were just like yammering away 1:45:36.120 --> 1:45:42.800 about the cosmos and physics. But but we all kind 1:45:42.840 --> 1:45:45.880 of hit it off. And Charlotte his his his, his, 1:45:46.400 --> 1:45:49.360 his partner, we all we just all hit it off. 1:45:49.720 --> 1:45:51.559 So one day him and I just kind of started jamming. 1:45:51.600 --> 1:45:53.880 I always keep my doughbro bass around. We just started 1:45:53.960 --> 1:45:55.680 jamming on acoustic guitars and we ended up in the 1:45:55.680 --> 1:45:57.840 back of the bus just just jamming, and there was 1:45:57.880 --> 1:46:04.280 some really interesting things coming out, and so I just said, hey, 1:46:04.320 --> 1:46:06.040 why don't you come on out to Rancho. Let's let's 1:46:06.160 --> 1:46:08.680 let's record some stuff. It seems like we got it 1:46:08.760 --> 1:46:11.160 was it was just this, there was some interest, There 1:46:11.240 --> 1:46:15.560 was instant chemistry, and he wasn't playing things that I 1:46:16.040 --> 1:46:19.280 that I was expecting he was. He's pretty angular and 1:46:21.400 --> 1:46:26.920 has an interesting approach to to his instrument And we 1:46:27.040 --> 1:46:30.840 got together and recorded our first album, which became the Delirium. 1:46:31.880 --> 1:46:39.960 Uh Claypool lenin Delirium Monolithophobos and what about Billy Strings, Well, 1:46:40.040 --> 1:46:45.120 so Billy is an interesting It's interesting because we as Delirium, 1:46:45.439 --> 1:46:48.880 me and Sean, we were playing a festival up in 1:46:51.439 --> 1:46:54.240 I think it was up in Tahoe, a few years back, 1:46:54.680 --> 1:46:56.240 and my wife comes to me and says, hey, look 1:46:56.240 --> 1:46:58.599 at this set list. And it was the set list, 1:46:59.240 --> 1:47:02.880 and the first song of the setlist started with L. 1:47:03.240 --> 1:47:05.720 The second song of the setlist started with E, third 1:47:05.800 --> 1:47:08.040 song started with S, fourth song started with CE. It 1:47:08.080 --> 1:47:11.280 spelled out my name in the first letters of each song, 1:47:11.720 --> 1:47:13.640 and I was like, who the hell is this? It 1:47:13.760 --> 1:47:16.639 was Billy Strings, So I had met Billy and his band. 1:47:16.880 --> 1:47:19.400 I didn't really remember it at the time, but then 1:47:19.479 --> 1:47:22.759 he's kept kind of sending me stuff on my Instagram, 1:47:22.840 --> 1:47:25.280 commenting mainly on fishing pictures because he's a big fisherman, 1:47:26.240 --> 1:47:27.880 and we just kind of hit it off and we went, 1:47:28.439 --> 1:47:30.800 we went, we went fishing, and we started just kind 1:47:30.800 --> 1:47:33.320 of jamming together, and we thought, let's record some stuff 1:47:33.320 --> 1:47:36.120 and see what happens. So we've been making a record 1:47:36.160 --> 1:47:38.599 and the notion is that it's all songs about fishing. 1:47:40.200 --> 1:47:42.680 Okay. Is it kind of a unique project, like, I mean, 1:47:42.720 --> 1:47:47.840 he's on quite an ascension, or is it like, well, 1:47:47.920 --> 1:47:50.320 this would be the next step to reach more people, 1:47:50.520 --> 1:47:52.400 or is it like, well, this sounds interesting. 1:47:53.280 --> 1:47:55.439 This is just a couple guys that like to fish 1:47:56.240 --> 1:47:58.479 getting together and twanging away you know, we were just 1:47:58.920 --> 1:48:06.680 it's very, very actual and it I have a thing 1:48:06.720 --> 1:48:08.600 called the Duo de Twang, which is myself and an 1:48:08.640 --> 1:48:12.000 old buddy of mine from high school, where we basically 1:48:12.120 --> 1:48:14.920 do these kind of twang versions of Primus songs and 1:48:14.960 --> 1:48:18.360 some of my songs and other people's songs. And I 1:48:18.439 --> 1:48:20.599 call it my vacation band because we sit on stage 1:48:20.640 --> 1:48:23.360 and I stomp on this box for a drummer, kind 1:48:23.360 --> 1:48:25.559 of like stomping Tom Connors, because I'm a big stomping 1:48:25.600 --> 1:48:30.479 Tom Connor fan, and we just drink and tell jokes 1:48:30.520 --> 1:48:32.400 and play these songs in bars. 1:48:32.560 --> 1:48:33.080 It was fun. 1:48:33.680 --> 1:48:35.280 So I just thought, oh, this would be an extension 1:48:35.320 --> 1:48:38.760 of that with Billy. There's not a lot of there's 1:48:39.000 --> 1:48:41.720 not a lot of preconceived notion to it, except for, hey, 1:48:41.800 --> 1:48:45.280 let's write songs about fishing because we're both into fishing. 1:48:46.720 --> 1:48:50.680 Okay, you talked about the cupcake and how big a 1:48:50.760 --> 1:48:53.040 part of the cupcake is now touring. Do you like 1:48:53.200 --> 1:48:54.040 going on the road. 1:48:55.840 --> 1:48:58.160 I do, but it's like anything else. If you're on 1:48:58.240 --> 1:48:59.840 the road for a long time, you're dying to get home. 1:49:00.320 --> 1:49:04.840 But my wife said years ago, because she was like 1:49:04.960 --> 1:49:08.080 super mom, she was class mom. For like eight years 1:49:08.120 --> 1:49:10.559 in a row or something. Her whole world was the kids, 1:49:11.840 --> 1:49:13.800 and she said, hey, when the kids move out, I'm 1:49:13.840 --> 1:49:15.280 just letting you know right now, I'm coming on the 1:49:15.320 --> 1:49:16.720 road with you. And I said, okay, And that's when 1:49:16.760 --> 1:49:19.600 we bought our first tour bus, and I drive the 1:49:19.640 --> 1:49:21.960 tour bus. I have a driver for after shows, but 1:49:22.080 --> 1:49:23.680 on days off, we take the tour bus and we 1:49:23.760 --> 1:49:26.760 go stay in campgrounds and whatnot, and so it's it's 1:49:26.840 --> 1:49:30.240 really fun for us. We're like this couple that cruises 1:49:30.280 --> 1:49:32.320 around and we go do shows and then on days 1:49:32.360 --> 1:49:35.360 off we go stay in campgrounds and I have all 1:49:35.400 --> 1:49:37.479 my fishing gear with me and a bicycle, and we 1:49:37.600 --> 1:49:41.720 were just it's fun for us to cruise around the 1:49:41.720 --> 1:49:44.000 country together, well around the world now because she goes 1:49:44.040 --> 1:49:44.600 everywhere with me. 1:49:45.240 --> 1:49:47.840 Okay, So how many days a year do you attend 1:49:47.880 --> 1:49:52.360 to play? I know we had COVID, but generally, I. 1:49:52.400 --> 1:49:56.160 Mean I'm doing I'm doing about three months solid. This, 1:49:56.400 --> 1:49:58.240 I'm doing two months, and then I've then a couple 1:49:58.320 --> 1:50:00.280 months off and then a month, so about three months 1:50:00.320 --> 1:50:01.760 this year, summer and fall. 1:50:02.479 --> 1:50:04.280 So where have you been in the bus that the 1:50:04.320 --> 1:50:06.519 average person hasn't been and you say, wow, you got 1:50:06.640 --> 1:50:07.040 to go there. 1:50:09.520 --> 1:50:14.800 I mean, I don't know if it's any different than 1:50:14.840 --> 1:50:18.400 where a lot of other musicians go. But that was 1:50:18.520 --> 1:50:21.479 one thing that I missed. Is in the early days 1:50:21.479 --> 1:50:23.080 when we had the motor home, which we called the 1:50:23.200 --> 1:50:27.640 Odor Home, we would drive it. We'd drive from here 1:50:27.720 --> 1:50:30.960 to there and go to the gig. And then next 1:50:31.040 --> 1:50:33.080 day you're driving across country, and I saw the country. 1:50:33.439 --> 1:50:37.400 And then I spent decades doing my show, getting in 1:50:37.479 --> 1:50:40.200 the back of the bus, watching a movie, drinking or 1:50:40.200 --> 1:50:42.600 smoking or whatever the hell, falling asleep, waking up at 1:50:42.640 --> 1:50:45.160 five in the morning, shambling out, getting into my hotel, 1:50:45.640 --> 1:50:47.880 sleeping and getting up and going, Hey, anybody know where 1:50:47.880 --> 1:50:49.840 the Starbucks is? Oh, anybody want to get lunch? Oo? 1:50:49.840 --> 1:50:52.240 And then you get back, get in a car and 1:50:52.320 --> 1:50:54.120 go to the gig, do the show, get back in 1:50:54.200 --> 1:50:56.040 the bus. You don't see anything. You see the inside 1:50:56.040 --> 1:50:57.320 of the bus, and you see a hotel room, and 1:50:57.320 --> 1:51:02.439 you see lots of coffee shops, Starbucks. So now that 1:51:02.520 --> 1:51:04.519 we have our own bus and I'm driving it a lot, 1:51:04.600 --> 1:51:08.040 I'm seeing the country. We're both seeing amazing things in 1:51:08.120 --> 1:51:11.920 the country. This last tour last year, my driver got 1:51:11.960 --> 1:51:15.160 COVID and I had to do all the driving all 1:51:15.280 --> 1:51:19.120 through Canada and it was spectacular. It was unbelievable. It 1:51:19.200 --> 1:51:21.559 was a little stressful because I we'd do the show 1:51:21.600 --> 1:51:23.240 and I'd have to hop in the bus and drive 1:51:23.280 --> 1:51:24.680 as far as I could, and then we'd pull over 1:51:24.760 --> 1:51:26.160 and sleep and then get up and drive the rest 1:51:26.160 --> 1:51:29.479 of the way to the gig. But like driving from 1:51:29.640 --> 1:51:32.960 I think it was well driving through the Canadian Rockies 1:51:33.240 --> 1:51:36.240 into Vancouver that just this one day, we saw like 1:51:36.360 --> 1:51:40.639 six caribou, We saw a bear, we saw a couple moose. 1:51:41.479 --> 1:51:43.760 My wife saw beaver hanging out on this big old 1:51:43.920 --> 1:51:47.000 damn it was. It was spectacular. It's unbelievable. 1:51:47.400 --> 1:51:50.240 How hard is it to drive a bus? It's not hard. 1:51:50.520 --> 1:51:50.960 I love it. 1:51:51.040 --> 1:51:51.479 I enjoy it. 1:51:51.560 --> 1:51:55.639 I have my Class B license now, so I'm able 1:51:55.720 --> 1:51:59.639 to drive this thing. But it's not terribly hard. It's 1:51:59.720 --> 1:52:01.080 like to anything else. 1:52:01.240 --> 1:52:04.680 Just get used to it. And then what's up with 1:52:04.800 --> 1:52:07.120 the whole pilot's license thing? And do you plan to 1:52:07.120 --> 1:52:07.719 get a plane? 1:52:08.280 --> 1:52:10.120 I would say, just to go back to the bus. 1:52:10.280 --> 1:52:13.040 Parking the bus is the hardest. I was gonna say, 1:52:14.200 --> 1:52:15.040 driving gets easy. 1:52:15.120 --> 1:52:17.160 Parking, Okay, that begs the question, have you ever hit 1:52:17.200 --> 1:52:19.200 anything with the bus parking or something. 1:52:19.400 --> 1:52:20.639 No, I'm gonna knock on some wood. 1:52:21.160 --> 1:52:21.439 I've not. 1:52:21.720 --> 1:52:25.040 Actually I shouldn't say that. I'm sure my wife is listening. 1:52:25.479 --> 1:52:28.759 So the first, our very first trip out, we are coming, 1:52:30.040 --> 1:52:33.760 I think we're coming into just outside of Utah. We're coming. 1:52:33.760 --> 1:52:37.080 We just come over this area where just beautiful views, 1:52:37.600 --> 1:52:40.720 and I see this, this this rest up. At the 1:52:40.760 --> 1:52:42.240 last second, I was like, I was swinging in there, 1:52:42.240 --> 1:52:45.120 and I swung in and I didn't realize how tight 1:52:45.200 --> 1:52:48.200 it was, and I'm backing up. And also this tree 1:52:48.240 --> 1:52:50.920 branch comes right through the side window and it literally 1:52:51.000 --> 1:52:52.960 hits me in the back of the head. So that 1:52:54.120 --> 1:52:58.599 was my first and so far only crunch in the bus. 1:53:00.520 --> 1:53:02.679 What does Primus mean in the rest of the world 1:53:02.720 --> 1:53:03.759 outside of the States. 1:53:06.160 --> 1:53:08.040 It depends on where you go. You know, there's certain 1:53:08.080 --> 1:53:11.600 places where we're more popular than others we tend to 1:53:12.640 --> 1:53:15.680 We don't go to Europe that much, never really have, 1:53:16.400 --> 1:53:19.360 so we're not as popular in Europe as we are here, 1:53:19.600 --> 1:53:22.439 but in certain places we're a little more than We've 1:53:22.439 --> 1:53:24.840 always done pretty well in Australia, we do pretty well 1:53:24.880 --> 1:53:30.040 in South America, but we're the biggest in the States. 1:53:32.080 --> 1:53:34.920 Okay, in the old days, pre internet, if you're on 1:53:34.960 --> 1:53:38.679 a major label, which you were, you're on MTV, everybody 1:53:38.800 --> 1:53:41.559 knows your name, whereas today you could be number one 1:53:41.640 --> 1:53:44.040 on Spotify. Most people have never even heard your music. 1:53:45.000 --> 1:53:48.640 So does that frustrate you? Do you want to have 1:53:48.840 --> 1:53:50.519 more people exposed to what you're doing. 1:53:52.200 --> 1:53:54.599 I don't know if it frustrates me as much as 1:53:54.640 --> 1:53:59.519 it frustrates my daughter. I don't really pay attention, you know. 1:53:59.600 --> 1:54:01.800 It's like, if I can go doom some shows and 1:54:02.200 --> 1:54:05.400 people show up, and I can, you know, make my 1:54:05.560 --> 1:54:08.639 living and do my stuff, that's wonderful. If more people 1:54:08.720 --> 1:54:11.880 show up, that's wonderful. But I don't pay attention to 1:54:11.960 --> 1:54:14.639 how many Spotify plays we have or any of that stuff. 1:54:14.960 --> 1:54:17.000 But my daughter did tell me when she was in 1:54:17.120 --> 1:54:19.479 high school. She's like, you need to get on social 1:54:19.560 --> 1:54:22.000 media because y'all your fans are getting old and they're 1:54:22.040 --> 1:54:24.400 gonna die, and then I'm not going to have any legacy. 1:54:24.439 --> 1:54:26.400 There's going to be nobody you need to get, you know. 1:54:26.680 --> 1:54:29.919 I'm like, wow, easy, easy. So I have an Instagram 1:54:29.960 --> 1:54:31.560 account now, but I don't want the hell to do 1:54:31.600 --> 1:54:33.240 with it. I post fishing pictures on it once in 1:54:33.280 --> 1:54:35.120 a while. That's that's really all I do. 1:54:36.920 --> 1:54:39.600 Okay, and you talk about making these records. You have 1:54:39.680 --> 1:54:40.760 a studio in the house. 1:54:41.640 --> 1:54:45.879 Yeah, we've been recording our records here Ran Show Relaxed 1:54:45.920 --> 1:54:49.120 so since nineteen ninety four, so we've done a lot 1:54:49.160 --> 1:54:49.720 of records here. 1:54:50.360 --> 1:54:52.360 What have you got in the studio? 1:54:53.240 --> 1:54:56.160 I have an old vintage JPI console twenty four eighty eight. 1:54:57.720 --> 1:55:03.600 I have a two inch sixteen track tape machine, but 1:55:03.640 --> 1:55:06.280 I just don't use it anymore. I have an ATR 1:55:06.400 --> 1:55:08.800 machine half inch, just don't use it anymore. 1:55:09.200 --> 1:55:09.360 You know. 1:55:09.440 --> 1:55:12.160 The digital stuff is just it's so much more convenient. 1:55:12.240 --> 1:55:15.200 And I ab'd with friends and nobody could really tell 1:55:15.280 --> 1:55:20.760 the difference. So it was like, all right, but you know, 1:55:20.840 --> 1:55:21.760 obviously pro tools. 1:55:22.520 --> 1:55:25.120 So are you a gear head with a whole, you know, 1:55:25.320 --> 1:55:28.800 closet full of microphones or you basically have the basics 1:55:28.840 --> 1:55:30.600 of people bring in what they want. No. 1:55:30.800 --> 1:55:33.640 I got a bunch of old stuff, vintage stuff, and 1:55:33.760 --> 1:55:37.800 some newer contemporary stuff. That's I go through periods of 1:55:37.880 --> 1:55:45.240 gearheading and not. I I do love my API. That 1:55:45.320 --> 1:55:49.200 thing is spectacular. It's the best sounding console I've ever 1:55:49.240 --> 1:55:53.520 even heard, so I geek out on that sort of thing. 1:55:53.640 --> 1:55:56.080 But I go through periods of geeking and then going 1:55:56.120 --> 1:55:57.400 off and geeking on something else. 1:55:57.480 --> 1:56:01.120 You know, Okay, since you're so good with cars whatever. 1:56:01.880 --> 1:56:04.360 Every studio needs a tech. Do you do your own 1:56:04.440 --> 1:56:05.800 tech or do you call somebody. 1:56:06.440 --> 1:56:08.320 I have a fellow by the name of Krieg who 1:56:08.440 --> 1:56:11.000 is amazing. But I do as much as I can 1:56:11.080 --> 1:56:14.080 because I did used to be a fledgling bench tech. 1:56:14.720 --> 1:56:17.920 So I do as much as I can. But he's 1:56:17.960 --> 1:56:22.360 the guy that keeps keeps, keeps the keeps the clock ticking. 1:56:23.960 --> 1:56:26.320 And then do you play the bass every day or 1:56:26.400 --> 1:56:27.000 how often? 1:56:28.440 --> 1:56:31.400 Uh? Then again it's I go through periods where I'm 1:56:31.400 --> 1:56:32.920 playing a lot, Like right now, I'm playing a lot 1:56:32.960 --> 1:56:35.640 because I just got a new I got a new 1:56:35.880 --> 1:56:39.720 six string, and I'm fiddling around with some new amps. 1:56:40.000 --> 1:56:44.000 But then there's other times when I won't play for weeks. 1:56:45.960 --> 1:56:49.840 And certainly a p bass is a standard what what's 1:56:49.880 --> 1:56:50.840 your standard amp? 1:56:53.720 --> 1:56:55.640 Standard AMP? I don't even know if I have a 1:56:55.720 --> 1:57:01.680 standard AMP. I avoided for decades going to the giant 1:57:02.040 --> 1:57:06.480 SVT head that weighs seven thousand pounds and you know, 1:57:06.600 --> 1:57:09.760 the hernia heead and now I have three of them. 1:57:11.800 --> 1:57:19.120 I finally scam succumbed, circame succumbed, but because I found 1:57:19.280 --> 1:57:22.840 that I had endorsements with different companies and whatnot, even 1:57:22.880 --> 1:57:26.440 with Ampeg for a long time. And I go to 1:57:27.160 --> 1:57:30.400 Chile or somewhere and they put one of these vintage 1:57:30.600 --> 1:57:34.000 SVT heads up for me to rent, and it always 1:57:34.120 --> 1:57:38.600 sounded amazing, and I thought, Jesus Christ, I got it, 1:57:38.680 --> 1:57:40.800 just find and so I finally broke down. I bought one, 1:57:40.920 --> 1:57:42.520 and then I bought another one, and then I bought it. 1:57:42.560 --> 1:57:45.680 And they all sound different, and I have to redo 1:57:45.760 --> 1:57:48.320 the tubes every now and again, and it's just but 1:57:48.480 --> 1:57:50.600 they're amazing. You get one that sounds good and it's 1:57:50.840 --> 1:57:52.120 truly incredible sounding. 1:57:53.000 --> 1:57:56.720 Okay, And you talk about watching TCM being a big 1:57:56.840 --> 1:57:59.120 movie addict, to what degree do you pay attention to 1:57:59.200 --> 1:57:59.600 the news. 1:58:01.120 --> 1:58:03.520 I mean, I read my news every day. I have 1:58:03.680 --> 1:58:08.040 my feeds, so I mean actually often multiple times a day. 1:58:11.120 --> 1:58:15.800 So I feel like I'm fairly in tune. But I'm 1:58:15.840 --> 1:58:19.400 a big fan of people that excel at what they do, 1:58:19.520 --> 1:58:27.560 and I'm a big fan of consulting professionals. So when 1:58:27.640 --> 1:58:30.760 I have an issue with like say a medical issue, 1:58:30.880 --> 1:58:32.800 or of even friends that have medical issues. I have 1:58:33.040 --> 1:58:36.480 a friend of mine that graduated from Columbia Med. He's 1:58:36.520 --> 1:58:41.760 been a pediatric doc for decades now in Oakland, and 1:58:42.680 --> 1:58:44.760 I call him after I talk to my doc. If 1:58:44.800 --> 1:58:47.240 I don't necessarily agree with what he's saying, I talk 1:58:47.280 --> 1:58:50.000 to him. If I don't get the information from him, 1:58:50.080 --> 1:58:51.800 I talk to a buddy of mine who's a brain 1:58:51.840 --> 1:58:54.760 surgeon in Manhattan, and that's where I get my information. 1:58:54.840 --> 1:58:58.040 I don't go onto blogs and decide that the vaccination 1:58:58.160 --> 1:59:02.240 is not good for me because some guy in some 1:59:02.520 --> 1:59:06.240 cabin somewhere said it adversely affect his ear, lobes or whatever. 1:59:07.040 --> 1:59:10.320 I tend to rely on professionals, So it's the same 1:59:10.680 --> 1:59:14.920 a lot of times with with elements of the news 1:59:15.040 --> 1:59:17.640 that I may be intrigued by or concerned with. I 1:59:17.720 --> 1:59:21.720 have friends that like our manager. He's a huge sports guy. 1:59:21.840 --> 1:59:26.760 He knows everything about every every draft pick, every team. 1:59:27.200 --> 1:59:28.960 That's his thing, it's not my thing. I have a 1:59:29.040 --> 1:59:32.080 friend who's like that with politics, any little angle and dangle. 1:59:32.120 --> 1:59:35.320 He knows all what's happening, and so I like going 1:59:35.320 --> 1:59:36.800 to lunch with him once in a while and hearing 1:59:36.840 --> 1:59:39.880 his perspective. Stuart Coplan's very good at that too, And 1:59:40.000 --> 1:59:42.160 Stuart he likes to be a contrarian, so he likes 1:59:42.200 --> 1:59:45.560 to take opposing viewpoints just to get the thing steamed up. 1:59:46.120 --> 1:59:50.240 So when all of a sudden done, I play the bass, 1:59:50.560 --> 1:59:53.120 and that's what you know if you want to know 1:59:53.160 --> 1:59:55.400 about the bass. I'm a pretty good resource to to 1:59:56.520 --> 1:59:58.080 talk to you about. I don't know everything, but I 1:59:58.200 --> 2:00:01.400 know enough to kind of move you along, and I 2:00:01.520 --> 2:00:06.959 tend to be that way with how I filter information. 2:00:07.520 --> 2:00:10.360 Does that makes are you optimistic or pessimistic about the 2:00:10.440 --> 2:00:11.520 direction of the country. 2:00:13.760 --> 2:00:16.080 I think as I'm getting older, I tend to be 2:00:16.200 --> 2:00:18.160 more of a curmudgeon, but I try not to be. 2:00:18.320 --> 2:00:20.320 And I'm very fortunate that my wife is one of 2:00:20.320 --> 2:00:22.560 the most positive humans, if not the most positive human 2:00:22.560 --> 2:00:24.400 I've ever met in my entire life, so it helps 2:00:24.480 --> 2:00:30.880 keep me balance. But I remember back in the days 2:00:31.200 --> 2:00:33.320 of the eighties and living in Berkeley, and we were 2:00:33.320 --> 2:00:35.800 all anti apartheid and I'm not buying shell gas and 2:00:35.840 --> 2:00:36.920 this and that and the next thing. But it was 2:00:37.000 --> 2:00:41.680 all very superficial. We were just kind of we're bouncing, 2:00:42.520 --> 2:00:46.240 We're paraphrasing things that other people that were more knowledgeable 2:00:46.280 --> 2:00:49.080 than us, that were cool in our scene, were saying, 2:00:50.120 --> 2:00:53.080 now that I'm older, I'm a little more aware. It's 2:00:53.400 --> 2:00:55.400 it tends to and I see it with a lot 2:00:55.440 --> 2:00:57.000 of my friends too. It tends to make you a 2:00:57.080 --> 2:00:58.880 little more pessimistic. 2:00:59.120 --> 2:01:00.920 And so. 2:01:03.400 --> 2:01:04.600 I don't know if I answered your question. 2:01:04.720 --> 2:01:09.440 Well, I know, I think that's good enough. So moving forward, 2:01:09.480 --> 2:01:15.520 you're doing this frog tour, your manager suggested it. What's 2:01:15.600 --> 2:01:17.720 coming down the pike? Do you just wake up every 2:01:17.800 --> 2:01:19.800 day with a new idea or do you have like 2:01:19.880 --> 2:01:24.240 a three year plan? What might we expect from last Claypool. 2:01:25.120 --> 2:01:29.400 Well, I just spent the last i'd say three or 2:01:29.440 --> 2:01:37.120 four months intensely studying, studying harder than I've ever studied 2:01:37.560 --> 2:01:40.800 in my entire existence on the planet to get my 2:01:40.840 --> 2:01:43.840 pilot's license. So I'm kind of coming out of that 2:01:43.880 --> 2:01:45.600 because I just got my license a couple of weeks ago, 2:01:45.680 --> 2:01:48.480 and now I'm I can actually start living my life again. 2:01:50.600 --> 2:01:53.080 So gearing up for the Sprog Brigade Tour. We're doing 2:01:53.120 --> 2:01:56.000 a benefit in a couple of weeks at Primus with 2:01:57.000 --> 2:01:59.800 a couple buddies from Tool and Queens of the Stone, 2:01:59.800 --> 2:02:03.320 A and A comic buddy of ours for a friend 2:02:03.320 --> 2:02:07.800 of ours who's who was battling cancer. But gearing up 2:02:07.800 --> 2:02:09.840 for this Sprogagate thing. I'm learning a bunch of songs. 2:02:09.840 --> 2:02:12.000 I got to relearn all that Pink Floyd animal stuff 2:02:12.000 --> 2:02:13.880 because we're going to do that in its entirety. 2:02:14.720 --> 2:02:14.840 Saw. 2:02:14.880 --> 2:02:17.840 I'm gearing up for that and gearing up for the 2:02:18.280 --> 2:02:21.000 summer run, and then eventually I'm going to get back 2:02:21.040 --> 2:02:23.760 in the studio with Sean and finish up this Delirium record, 2:02:23.800 --> 2:02:27.480 and eventually get with Billy and finish the thing with 2:02:27.560 --> 2:02:28.240 Billy strings. 2:02:29.640 --> 2:02:31.440 What's this whole pilot's thing about. 2:02:32.920 --> 2:02:36.520 So in the early nineties, I was living in Berkeley 2:02:36.800 --> 2:02:40.880 and my uncle who's retired now retired auto mechanic, he 2:02:41.000 --> 2:02:43.040 had his own plane. He had a bonanza and he 2:02:43.080 --> 2:02:44.360 took us up and I was like, yeah, this was 2:02:44.360 --> 2:02:47.600 this really cool, and I started taking lessons from his buddy, 2:02:48.200 --> 2:02:49.880 and then we moved up to the country and I 2:02:50.000 --> 2:02:54.040 just never finished. So all these years have gone by, 2:02:54.120 --> 2:02:56.040 the kids have moved out, and I thought, well, shit, 2:02:56.360 --> 2:03:00.800 I should finish this thing. So I dove in head first, 2:03:00.880 --> 2:03:04.680 and really really just because I knew I had to 2:03:04.760 --> 2:03:10.440 do it. Between projects because it takes so much of 2:03:10.600 --> 2:03:14.320 my mental capacity that I knew I couldn't I couldn't 2:03:14.360 --> 2:03:18.040 be working on creative output and all this input data 2:03:18.120 --> 2:03:20.000 input at the same time. It just wouldn't have worked. 2:03:20.560 --> 2:03:22.800 So I just put everything on hold and I got 2:03:22.840 --> 2:03:26.000 my license. It took me from the beginning of December 2:03:26.160 --> 2:03:27.120 till a couple of weeks ago. 2:03:27.880 --> 2:03:29.640 You got your license. You're going to get a plane. 2:03:30.840 --> 2:03:32.080 I have a plane with a friend. 2:03:33.000 --> 2:03:33.840 What kind of plane. 2:03:34.640 --> 2:03:36.320 It's a Sirus SR twenty. 2:03:36.680 --> 2:03:39.919 Okay, so it comes with a parachute theoretically, so the parachute, 2:03:39.920 --> 2:03:43.160 thank god, assuming you know a lot of people don't 2:03:43.240 --> 2:03:46.160 pull it because it tends up really damaging the plane. 2:03:46.200 --> 2:03:47.600 What about instrument rating. 2:03:48.880 --> 2:03:50.400 I'm guess I'm gonna go for that next. 2:03:51.720 --> 2:03:56.000 Okay. You're a very fourth right humorous person. But you 2:03:56.120 --> 2:04:00.960 talk about being into movies, et cetera. Are you always 2:04:01.680 --> 2:04:05.800 this kind of upbeat or do you go into dark areas? 2:04:05.880 --> 2:04:08.440 Do you get depressed? I mean, am I just seeing 2:04:08.520 --> 2:04:10.800 one side of less? Or is this who you are? 2:04:10.960 --> 2:04:12.600 Twenty four to seven? Oh? 2:04:12.680 --> 2:04:16.520 No, no, no, no, I It's funny because, like I said, 2:04:16.600 --> 2:04:19.920 my wife is literally she's the most positive person I've 2:04:19.960 --> 2:04:21.640 ever met. She wakes up in the morning, she gives 2:04:21.640 --> 2:04:23.520 you a big smile. You know, I wake up in 2:04:23.520 --> 2:04:25.400 the morning. Sometimes I have a big smile. Sometimes I'm 2:04:25.440 --> 2:04:29.480 like eh, And our son is very much like her. 2:04:29.640 --> 2:04:33.800 He wakes up whistling. But our daughter's more like me. 2:04:34.000 --> 2:04:37.680 You know, peaks and valleys, so get you get less 2:04:37.680 --> 2:04:40.520 on a peak, and I'm a happy clam, but you 2:04:40.640 --> 2:04:42.800 get me on a valley, not such a happy clam. 2:04:42.960 --> 2:04:47.560 And it's funny because I don't usually do sugar and 2:04:47.680 --> 2:04:53.600 I don't usually do desserts. Because my buddy Slavic, who's Polish, says, 2:04:53.680 --> 2:04:56.200 goddamn it, level don't know, no, no, goddamn desert man, 2:04:56.200 --> 2:04:57.920 You're going to turn into an asshole in twenty minutes. 2:04:58.000 --> 2:05:01.560 Because for twenty minutes I'm like w happy guy on sugar, 2:05:01.800 --> 2:05:04.640 and then twenty minutes later I'm like, I want to 2:05:04.680 --> 2:05:05.240 get out of here. 2:05:05.880 --> 2:05:06.040 You know. 2:05:06.320 --> 2:05:09.080 So I have my peaks and valleys. 2:05:09.560 --> 2:05:11.080 Well how low do the valleys get? 2:05:12.160 --> 2:05:15.160 They can get pretty low. But you know that's why 2:05:15.200 --> 2:05:18.040 I'm happy. I have my wife here. She's always lets 2:05:18.080 --> 2:05:22.160 me know when I'm feeling down or you know, things 2:05:22.200 --> 2:05:25.480 are looking less than cheery. She lets me know that 2:05:25.520 --> 2:05:27.680 I've got it pretty good, and I do. I have 2:05:27.800 --> 2:05:29.000 it spectacularly good. 2:05:30.120 --> 2:05:35.000 Okay, so you're living your life now, Any dreams beyond this, 2:05:35.280 --> 2:05:38.120 anything you want to accomplish, talking about your daughter, talked 2:05:38.160 --> 2:05:41.040 about legacy, said that's not important, or you just say 2:05:41.080 --> 2:05:44.040 I'm just gonna merrily go along and that's my life. 2:05:45.160 --> 2:05:51.720 Well, it's become very important to me recently to try 2:05:51.800 --> 2:05:54.360 and do the South of the Pumphouse film for a 2:05:54.440 --> 2:05:58.520 few different reasons. One, I think it's very relevant right now. 2:05:58.640 --> 2:06:05.120 It's super very intense UH social commentary, a lot of racism, 2:06:05.480 --> 2:06:09.080 a lot of misogynistic elements, and there's it's a pretty 2:06:09.200 --> 2:06:12.560 it's a it's a hotbed for sure. But also my 2:06:12.640 --> 2:06:16.880 buddy Mark Corer, who I was, who I was. He's 2:06:16.880 --> 2:06:18.560 a director who I was going to do this project 2:06:18.640 --> 2:06:23.040 with many years ago. He he was one of the 2:06:23.080 --> 2:06:28.240 hot shot video directors in his day, and he he 2:06:28.640 --> 2:06:32.320 his first daughter was born with UH with an affliction, 2:06:32.560 --> 2:06:35.960 and since then he's he's that's what he that's been 2:06:36.000 --> 2:06:38.840 his life is taking care of her. And because of 2:06:38.920 --> 2:06:40.960 that he kind of fell out of you know, he 2:06:41.120 --> 2:06:43.120 was with Spike Jones and all those guys. He was 2:06:43.160 --> 2:06:45.000 one of those guys, and he should have been gone 2:06:45.040 --> 2:06:47.680 on to be a great filmmaker, and he just had 2:06:47.880 --> 2:06:50.000 He just kind of fell out of it to take 2:06:50.040 --> 2:06:53.240 care of his family. And he's at a point now 2:06:53.240 --> 2:06:55.600 where where he can he can do this thing. So 2:06:55.640 --> 2:06:57.760 it's really important to me that we try and get 2:06:57.800 --> 2:07:01.560 this project going again, so that so that, hey, I 2:07:01.600 --> 2:07:04.360 can fulfill one of my dreams. But b because I 2:07:04.400 --> 2:07:07.280 think the world needs to see what Mark Core can do, 2:07:07.360 --> 2:07:09.680 because he's really one of the most talented people I know. 2:07:10.960 --> 2:07:13.560 Well less not only are you unique in your playing, 2:07:13.640 --> 2:07:17.120 you're unique in your identity, your sense of humor. You're 2:07:17.240 --> 2:07:21.440 obviously very intelligent. It's been great talking to you. I 2:07:21.560 --> 2:07:23.520 want to thank you for taking the time for me 2:07:23.640 --> 2:07:24.360 and my audience. 2:07:25.240 --> 2:07:28.040 Yeah. Well, you're a very kind man and it was 2:07:28.160 --> 2:07:31.040 a great conversation. I always enjoy a good conversation. 2:07:32.040 --> 2:07:35.280 Okay, till next time. This is Bob left six