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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Basis Extraordinary Les claypool Less. A

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Speaker 1: couple of things we were talking trying to get the

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Speaker 1: technical stuff under control. You talked about early morning and

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Speaker 1: it's just about noon. Are you a late night guy?

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Speaker 2: I am not a late night guy. It was more

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Speaker 2: just a reference to dealing with technical issues as the

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Speaker 2: first part of the day and being a lowly based player.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Then another thing, and this is well known, you

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Speaker 1: were referred to as colonel. What's the derivation of that?

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Speaker 2: That came about with some of my guys when I

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Speaker 2: started the Frog Brigade years ago that you know, I

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Speaker 2: was the kernel of of of the brigade, and I

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Speaker 2: like to joke that it's more K E R N

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Speaker 2: A l as, more like as a bit of corn

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Speaker 2: as opposed to some form of military authority figure.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So the Frog Brigade is going on the road.

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Speaker 1: You have multiple bands associations. Why the Frog Brigade? Why now?

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Speaker 2: My manager told me to do it. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It's it's it's been a while since we've done the

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Speaker 2: Frog Brigade. There seems to be a hunger for for

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Speaker 2: some for some brigade, I've we're re releasing uh those

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Speaker 2: old pron song h recordings, So uh, it just seemed

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Speaker 2: like the right time. I had a big year with

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Speaker 2: Primus last year, probably the most daunting uh Primus undertaking

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Speaker 2: in the history of primis by doing that entire record,

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Speaker 2: which again another another another test of the firing of

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Speaker 2: the synapse. So it's it's it's it's just time, it's

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Speaker 2: it's it's time to shift gears a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Okay, everybody knows your name, but not everybody is familiar

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Speaker 1: with the ins and outs of your career. Can you

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Speaker 1: tell us a little bit more about the frog we gave.

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Speaker 2: Well so many years ago, well right around the turn

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Speaker 2: of the century, we were having some issues in the

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Speaker 2: Primus world and we weren't necessarily seeing eye to eye

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Speaker 2: on things, and I think we had some burnout and

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Speaker 2: there was some there was a little bit of fade

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Speaker 2: going on, and we went on a hiatus, which was

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Speaker 2: just another way of saying, we're breaking up and we

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Speaker 2: might get back together at some point. And I I

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Speaker 2: I did this gig in New Orleans which ended up

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Speaker 2: being the being Oyster Head, and it sort of launched

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Speaker 2: me into this. It made it made my presence known

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Speaker 2: in the jam world. So I got a call from

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Speaker 2: an old friend of mine, Michael Bailey, who books the

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Speaker 2: film More, and he was booking this festival in Calaveras

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Speaker 2: County called the Mountain Air Festival and it's you know,

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Speaker 2: famous calaver'se jumping frog, you know, famous from Mark Twain story.

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Speaker 1: And wait, wait, I don't think everybody knows that. So

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Speaker 1: if you remember, go a little bit deeper about the

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Speaker 1: jumping frog in Mark Twain.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the famous jumping frog of Calaveras County. So

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Speaker 2: I have a history with Calaverrese County because I used

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Speaker 2: to play in this band, this old R and B

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Speaker 2: band when I was about nineteen years old. With we

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Speaker 2: would play these basically Hell's Angels events all over northern California,

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Speaker 2: and one of them was the Frog Jumps in Calaveras

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Speaker 2: County and Calver's County has had these frog Jumps for

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Speaker 2: decades and the bikers used to go to this thing,

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Speaker 2: but they would get harassed, so they started their own,

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Speaker 2: which was like a week prior and I used to

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Speaker 2: go play thing. So anyway, Michael Bailey and BGP at

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Speaker 2: the time had this Mountain.

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Speaker 1: Air Bill Graham Presents, Yes.

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Speaker 2: Had this Mountain Air Festival. And so because of the

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Speaker 2: Oysterhead thing that I had put together in New Orleans,

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Speaker 2: Michael Bailey said, hey, can you put something together for us?

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Speaker 2: So I got Tim Alexander on drums, and I had

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Speaker 2: Jack Irons, one of my favorite drummers on drums as well,

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Speaker 2: two drummers, then my buddy Merv on guitar and Garrick

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Speaker 2: on sacks, and we were going to call it the

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Speaker 2: thunder Brigade. And Michael was like, you know, we're bringing

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Speaker 2: up the primus guy into the jam world. Something called

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Speaker 2: the thunder Brigade might be a little heavy handed. So

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Speaker 2: I said, well, let's call it the Frog Brigade because

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Speaker 2: it's the Frog jumps and that's how Frog Brigade was born.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so Michael Bailey said, to do the gig. Tell

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Speaker 1: us about the gig and what the music was like.

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Speaker 2: Well, basically, like Oysterhead, there was a it was a

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Speaker 2: lot of just straight up improvisations. So my idea was

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Speaker 2: to get some of my favorite guys together, Tim and

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Speaker 2: Tim Alexander and I hadn't played together in a while

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Speaker 2: because he had left Primus and this was sort of

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Speaker 2: this was sort of his introduction back into the Primus world.

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Speaker 2: And then Jack Irons was a buddy of mine, he

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Speaker 2: was a neighbor. And Merv is just a guitar player

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Speaker 2: who I've just have always adored. And then Scarek is Scarek.

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Speaker 2: He's a champion, He's known in that world very well.

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Speaker 2: And we got together, picked a few songs and then

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Speaker 2: just sort of jammed it out and it that and

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Speaker 2: the Oysterhead thing really opened my eyes to the notion

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Speaker 2: that hey, people want to see you do all those

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Speaker 2: things that other people have been telling you not to

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Speaker 2: do all these years, which is wiggle your fingers and

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Speaker 2: take chances and dance on the edge. They want to

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Speaker 2: see you fall and potentially fall gracefully. And I just

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Speaker 2: found that fascinating and it's since become a bit big

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Speaker 2: part of my philosophy on how to approach music, which

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Speaker 2: is just throw past at the walls and see what sticks.

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Speaker 1: You know, Okay, let's go back to you saying all

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Speaker 1: the stuff you're not supposed to do in falling. You

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Speaker 1: go a little deeper on that.

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Speaker 2: Well, Uh, I've always been one of those guys that

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Speaker 2: could waggle my fingers pretty good. And I've definitely been

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Speaker 2: in many situations over the years where they're like, you know,

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Speaker 2: that's nice, less, but can you waggle your fingers maybe

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Speaker 2: half as much as you're waggling your fingers? And you know,

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Speaker 2: and when the when the when the job calls for

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Speaker 2: it or the gig calls for it, I have no

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Speaker 2: problem doing that. That's what I do. You know, when

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Speaker 2: I play with Tom Waits, I don't waggle my fingers

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Speaker 2: nearly as much as I do in Primus, but something

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Speaker 2: like primus.

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Speaker 1: Wait, well, let's be very specific, because not everybody is

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Speaker 1: as knowledgeable certainly as you. When you say waggle your fingers,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about a style of play or being more

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Speaker 1: visually dynamic.

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Speaker 2: Ah, wiggle of the fingers. In my world, well, in

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Speaker 2: my personal mind, it is just another way of saying

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Speaker 2: playing technically.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So as opposed to if you're not playing technically,

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Speaker 1: you're doing what.

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Speaker 2: Well, as opposed to holding down the route or playing

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Speaker 2: a little more minimalistic. So okay, does that make sense?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think there's a lot more questions, but let's

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Speaker 1: hold those questions to continue the narrative how you ended

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Speaker 1: up changing to be in the quote unquote GM band world.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't so much a change. It was more of

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Speaker 2: there was a there was a side of me that

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden, Hey, wait a minute, here's some

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Speaker 2: people that are enjoying music. For the musicians, there was

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Speaker 2: no hey, I got to wear a red baseball cap

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Speaker 2: backwards because that's the style now, or there was no

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Speaker 2: thought of being on radio or MTV or any of this.

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Speaker 2: It was people wanting to see musicians young and old,

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Speaker 2: just do what they could do to the extent of

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Speaker 2: the of their ability and take chances musically in front

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Speaker 2: of a large crowd. That's what I got out of it.

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Speaker 2: When we did the Oysterhead thing was it was insane.

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Speaker 2: It was like, we're going to go up and we've

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Speaker 2: jammed together three times, and we're going to go play

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Speaker 2: these songs that we just wrote and we're going to

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Speaker 2: just jam. It was like being in high school and

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Speaker 2: setting up in the garage and but yet in front

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Speaker 2: of thousands of people.

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Speaker 3: And in.

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Speaker 2: The Primus world, you know, we were known for doing

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Speaker 2: some improv, but it was we were within the parameters

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Speaker 2: of our song structure, whereas doing the Oysterhead thing and

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Speaker 2: then subsequently getting into Frog Brigade world structure wasn't such

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Speaker 2: a big deal. You know, the parameters were much looser,

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Speaker 2: or they were interpreted as being much looser. So it's

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Speaker 2: just more free form expression with your instrument.

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Speaker 1: Okay, because I know what Oysterhead is, but not everybody

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Speaker 1: does tell us about the formation and the members of

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Speaker 1: oyster Head.

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Speaker 2: Well, Ryan abound that right right around that time. Excuse me.

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Speaker 2: The fellows at Superfly who used to put on these

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Speaker 2: these these events down at the Jazz Festival.

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Speaker 1: This is an emotion company.

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Speaker 2: Yes, down in New Orleans would do these things called

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Speaker 2: super jams. And my manager was he managed Galactic at

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Speaker 2: the time, so he was he was in that world,

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Speaker 2: and he said, Hey, they want you to put together

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Speaker 2: something for a SuperJAM. I'm like, what the hell is

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Speaker 2: a super jam. Well, you get a hold of some

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Speaker 2: you get some musicians together, and you just go and

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Speaker 2: jam in front of a bunch of people. I was like,

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Speaker 2: all right, well, I'm going to call my buddy Trey

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Speaker 2: Anastasia because he's in a band that's kind of known

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Speaker 2: for jamming. And so I called up Trey I said, hey,

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Speaker 2: they want us, they want me to do this event.

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Speaker 2: Are you interested in coming and doing this thing? And

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Speaker 2: he said, you know, I've always wanted to do a

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Speaker 2: project with you and Stuart Copeland. And I said, well,

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Speaker 2: I know Stuart, and I think he kind of I

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Speaker 2: learned years later that he kind of tossed that out

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Speaker 2: at me as like a, well, I don't really want

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Speaker 2: to do this, but hey, if you can get you know,

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Speaker 2: Stuart Coput involved. It was, it was it was kind

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Speaker 2: of a way of gracefully bowing out of this little

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Speaker 2: did he know that I actually knew Stuart. So then

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Speaker 2: I called Stuart. Stuart's like I've been waiting for this

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Speaker 2: phone call for twenty five years. He was so excited

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Speaker 2: and ready to do it. And the three of us

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Speaker 2: got together and jammed a little bit, and then we

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Speaker 2: did this show. It was purely by the seat of

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Speaker 2: our pants, and it was it was very foreign for

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Speaker 2: Stuart because you know, the police was a was a

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Speaker 2: pretty scripted unit, and you know, he would always talk

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Speaker 2: about his pop sensibilities. And then there's Trey who's just

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Speaker 2: used to going going for it in front of huge

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Speaker 2: groups of people. And then there was me kind of

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Speaker 2: dancing in the middle, and it was just a very

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Speaker 2: liberating thing. And and and that's what opened my eyes

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Speaker 2: and probably other people's eyes to me in that world.

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Speaker 1: How did you know, Trey?

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Speaker 2: I had played with Fish many years ago. I had

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Speaker 2: a band called Sausage, which was some of the original

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Speaker 2: members of Primus, and we opened for Fish at Laguna

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Speaker 2: Seca Days in California. And I always knew a Fish

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Speaker 2: as this, you know, there was this band kind of

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Speaker 2: came up around us, and there was we had some

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Speaker 2: mutual friends, and there was a couple songs of theirs

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Speaker 2: that we used to listen to every now and again.

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Speaker 2: But I to be honest with you, I didn't realize

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Speaker 2: how big they were. And so we did this. You know,

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Speaker 2: I just call them up, I just call them Trey, going, hey,

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Speaker 2: you want to do this thing? And little did I

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Speaker 2: know the show was going to sell out in five

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Speaker 2: seconds and it was all, you know, fish heads, because

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Speaker 2: I had no clue how big they were.

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Speaker 1: So and how did you know, Stewart, Well.

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Speaker 2: We did a rec he Primus did in the late

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Speaker 2: eighties called anti Pop and it was after the Brown Album,

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Speaker 2: and the Brown Album was our sort of our experimental

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Speaker 2: record where we bought all this whole vintage gear and

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Speaker 2: just made this record that Tom Waits and once told

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Speaker 2: me it sounds like it needs a good wash, you know,

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Speaker 2: because it's a very dirty dark It's the Brown album,

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Speaker 2: it's the Brown sound. And the record company wasn't real

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Speaker 2: thrilled with that record nor with its performance. So when

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Speaker 2: we came to do our next record, there was a

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Speaker 2: lot of talk of, hey, you know, you guys have

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Speaker 2: always done your own thing and done and gone your

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Speaker 2: own way, but maybe it's time to work with a producer.

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Speaker 2: And we had dabbled around with some producers on a

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Speaker 2: few little projects prior to that and just never found

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Speaker 2: anything that clicked with us. So the notion came up, well,

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Speaker 2: let's work with a bunch of artists. We respect musicians

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Speaker 2: and whatnot as producers to produce individual songs. So one

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Speaker 2: of the first calls we made was to Stuart, because I,

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Speaker 2: you know, I've always you know, to me, the Rumblefish

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Speaker 2: soundtrack is one of the greatest pieces of music ever recorded.

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Speaker 2: I absolutely adore that, and I love his sensibility, and

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Speaker 2: so here comes Stuart. He was happy as a clam

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Speaker 2: to come up and sit in my bean bag chair

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Speaker 2: and point at us and tell us what to do

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Speaker 2: and throw some of his pop sensibilities at us. So

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Speaker 2: that's how it and we just hit it off. He's

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Speaker 2: a great guy. He's one of my best friends now,

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Speaker 2: so I'll Kevin for a long time.

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Speaker 1: You start off by saying your manager told you to

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Speaker 1: do the Frog Brigade. Now you talk about the labels

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Speaker 1: saying telling you what to do. Your image is of

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Speaker 1: someone who doesn't listen to anybody and does whatever he wants.

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Speaker 1: So who are you relative to that?

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Speaker 2: Well, it wasn't like he told me to do the

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Speaker 2: oysterhead thing or told me to do. He brought in

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Speaker 2: the options to do this and I said, wow, that

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Speaker 2: sounds interesting. It's a new thing. And the record company

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Speaker 2: thing was, you know, well we can't. There's no producer

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Speaker 2: that we really clicked with. We tried to get Brian Eno,

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Speaker 2: but he wouldn't even talk to us, which I think

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Speaker 2: would have been spectacular. But it was just kind of

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Speaker 2: our way of doing it, our way, if that makes

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Speaker 2: any sense.

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Speaker 1: Okay, a couple of questions. Where are you right? The second?

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Speaker 1: I'm not talking about literally the street address, but what

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Speaker 1: where are you relative to California.

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Speaker 2: I'm in the Sonoma coastal Wine Country, Okay, and I'm

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Speaker 2: sitting at my kitchen table, and that is that's Penelope

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Speaker 2: behind me right there's she's a figurehead from a ship.

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Speaker 1: Okay. You know, in the Internet era, you could be anywhere.

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Speaker 1: But and you grew up exactly where I grew up.

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Speaker 2: In the East Bay of San Francisco Bay Area, so Panol, Richmond,

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Speaker 2: else BRANDI well, it's it's it's it's a it's a

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Speaker 2: little north of Berkeley.

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Speaker 1: And would your parents do for a living?

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Speaker 2: I come from a long line of auto mechanics. My

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Speaker 2: father was auto mechanic. My uncles were all mechanics. My

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Speaker 2: stepfather was a mechanic. My grandfather was a mechanic. But

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Speaker 2: I did have one grandfather that was a fireman, and

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Speaker 2: he actually has been immortalized, if you want to call

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Speaker 2: it that in this song. Jerry was a race car driver,

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Speaker 2: as Captain Pierce the Fireman.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Lots of auto mechanics, so they're all those auto mechanics.

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Speaker 1: Are you an auto mechanic at least on any amateur level? Uh?

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Speaker 2: My father to this day gets upset with me when

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Speaker 2: I work on my own vehicles because he's worried I'm

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Speaker 2: going to smash up my hands, which is which is valid.

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Speaker 2: But I tend to do it anyway because I'd rather

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Speaker 2: do it than wait for somebody to come and do it.

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Speaker 2: But I work on a lot of it, but not

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Speaker 2: all of it. The guys like to make fun of

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Speaker 2: me because I spend a lot of my time on

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Speaker 2: tour working on my own tour bus. But I enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, tour bus is a whole another you know, league

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Speaker 1: with diesel engines. How do you know to work on

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Speaker 1: a tour bus?

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Speaker 2: You know, it's all, it's all, it's all, it's all relative.

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Speaker 2: You know, you got to service the generator, you got

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Speaker 2: I have a buddy that builds tour bus, big fancy

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Speaker 2: tour coaches for for entertainers. And he said, there's two

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Speaker 2: types of tour buses that that break down, old tour

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Speaker 2: buses and new tour buses. They all break down, they

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Speaker 2: all have issues. There's always something going on, and so

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Speaker 2: there tends to be a lot for me to do,

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Speaker 2: but keeps me busy.

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Speaker 1: Okay, most people rent their tour buses. Do you renter,

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Speaker 1: do you own a tour bus?

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Speaker 2: I am not a very bright individual. So I actually

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Speaker 2: have two tour buses now and we talk of us

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Speaker 2: selling one of them, but my wife refused uses to

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Speaker 2: let me sell. Her name is Lafonda. She was our

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Speaker 2: first bus because she has fond memories of Lafonda's. So

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Speaker 2: we're now using it at our tasting room for high

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Speaker 2: end fancy tastings.

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Speaker 1: Okay, where are the buses right now?

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Speaker 2: One of them is that packet room station in sebastopall

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Speaker 2: our wine tasting facility.

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Speaker 1: And where's the other one.

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Speaker 2: It's at our where we keep our gear in our

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Speaker 2: our rehearsal space.

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Speaker 1: So if you have a tour bus, is it like

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Speaker 1: you know some mechanical items, they work best if they're

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Speaker 1: used all the time where someone is not on tour

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Speaker 1: all the time. So like on the tour bus there,

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Speaker 1: the more you drive it, the fewer problems you have.

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Speaker 1: Or if you started up after six months, you know

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Speaker 1: you got new problems. What's it like?

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Speaker 2: Well, so a tour bus is like a it's like

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Speaker 2: a yacht. There's so many things on it. There's kitchens

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Speaker 2: and bathrooms and pneumatic doors and so there's lots of

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Speaker 2: things to go wrong. It is true with any mechanical item.

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Speaker 2: The more you use it, the less apt it is

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Speaker 2: to be unreliable. So I do have to exercise these

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Speaker 2: things as often as I can, and I probably don't

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Speaker 2: as much as I should.

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Speaker 1: Okay, tell me more about the wine tasting operation.

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Speaker 2: Well, we moved up to the Snowma coastal wine country.

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Speaker 2: It's been like twenty eight years ago now, and I

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Speaker 2: used to be a fellow that smoked quite a lot

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Speaker 2: of the marijuana bush. And where we live, there's it's

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Speaker 2: like living in Hollywood. If you live in Hollywood and

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Speaker 2: you have a barbecue, who comes to your barbecue? There

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Speaker 2: are grips, there's you know, lighting people, There's people within

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Speaker 2: the industry tend to show up your barbecues. Well, here

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Speaker 2: you have a barbecue, it's a lot of Cooper's, a

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Speaker 2: lot of vineyard managers, people in the wine industry. So

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Speaker 2: while this wonderful wine Pino noir you say noir, was

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Speaker 2: floating around, and at the time, I was trying to

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Speaker 2: not smoke so much of the marijuana bush because I

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Speaker 2: felt like it was adversely affecting my memory, and I

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Speaker 2: wanted to remember what my children were like when they

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Speaker 2: were little and I needed a new vice, so I

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Speaker 2: started drinking all this local pino, and then a couple

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Speaker 2: friends of mine one day said, hey, we should make

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Speaker 2: our own pino. It'll be cheaper than buying it, which

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Speaker 2: was the stupidest thing I've ever said in my entire life,

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Speaker 2: because it's a very costly endeavor. But it's become a

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Speaker 2: wonderful thing for us on a social level because my

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Speaker 2: wife runs it. We have it's just it's kind of

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Speaker 2: like our clubhouse. We just go and hang out and

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Speaker 2: drink this wine. We have a twenty foot fiberglass wianer

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Speaker 2: that we serve these gourmet hot dogs out of, and

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Speaker 2: the people that work for us are all amazing friends.

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Speaker 2: So we just kind of fell into it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's not only expensive. He usually takes a bit

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Speaker 1: of time to get right. So how long you been

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Speaker 1: doing it for.

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Speaker 2: We've been doing it since two thousand and seven. But

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Speaker 2: we're very, very fortunate because at one point, actually there's

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Speaker 2: twenty ten, we were on the hunt for a new

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Speaker 2: wine maker, and we're little guys, We're like a thousand cases.

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Speaker 2: But I was surprised all these winemakers came out of

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Speaker 2: the woodworks to make our wine. And I would ask them, so,

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Speaker 2: who do you admire, who do you respect as a

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Speaker 2: contemporary pino maker, And they always say, oh, Ross Cobb, Rosscobb, Rosscob,

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Speaker 2: Ross Cobb's pretty fun to get a phone call from

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Speaker 2: Ross Cobb. He's like, hey, lets I met you with

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Speaker 2: John Cordy and the Vinyl guys, and I grew up

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Speaker 2: with sections and we had similar friends. And he's a

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Speaker 2: bass player, so boom got We got Ross Cobb as

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Speaker 2: our winemaker. And he's been our winemaker for twelve years now.

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Speaker 2: And he's a very good friend. And he's a pretty

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Speaker 2: good bass player.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but he's winemaker exclusives to you or he all

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Speaker 1: works on multiple vineyards.

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Speaker 2: He does his own label, Cobb, and he does I

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Speaker 2: think he does a couple other labels as well, but

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Speaker 2: he's mainly us and him.

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Speaker 1: What does it take to make a good wine?

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Speaker 2: A good winemaker helps, but the main thing is sourcing

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Speaker 2: good fruit. And where we live just happens to be

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Speaker 2: the mecca of California peanuta. So we get a lot

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Speaker 2: of good fruit and Ross knows what to do with it.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's funny. I always say that, you know,

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Speaker 2: I mean a band with Stuart Copeland, which is an

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Speaker 2: unbelievable thing to me when I really think about it,

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Speaker 2: even though he's a good buddy and it seems natural now.

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Speaker 2: But it's a similar thing with Ross making our wine.

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Speaker 2: He's like the Stuart Copeland of winemakers. He's just that

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Speaker 2: guy that has he has an approach and a thumb prints.

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Speaker 2: I find making wine is very similar to make records.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of variables within those elements that make

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Speaker 2: that create that thumb print if you're looking to create

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Speaker 2: a thumbprint.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so is this a public operation? Can people drive

400
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Speaker 1: their sample et cetera? Oh yeah, so people listening it

401
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 1: might be in the area, give us a couple of

402
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Speaker 1: names or whatever how they can find your place.

403
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Speaker 2: It's just purple packeter is the name of the wine

404
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Speaker 2: and the name of the tasting room's packet m station

405
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Speaker 2: and look for the giant fiberglass wain.

406
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Speaker 1: So at the end of the day, is this operation

407
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Speaker 1: in the red or in the black?

408
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Speaker 2: It's let's just say it's kind of what's what's the

409
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Speaker 2: combination of red and black? I would say pink, but

410
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Speaker 2: that's more white and black. It's kind of it just

411
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Speaker 2: floats itself.

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Speaker 1: Basically.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's an old saying if you want to

414
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Speaker 2: make if you want to make a million dollars in

415
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Speaker 2: the wine industry, start with five million and whittle it down,

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Speaker 2: you know. So it's a lifestyle thing for us.

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Speaker 1: And how many people work there?

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Speaker 2: What do we have? We have six or seven folks

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Speaker 2: working for us.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and you mentioned your wife. She doesn't want to

421
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Speaker 1: get rid of the other tour bus. How'd you meet

422
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Speaker 1: your wife?

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Speaker 2: I've known we've been together over thirty years. I met

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Speaker 2: her in Berkeley. Her sisters were going to school in Berkeley,

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Speaker 2: and she eventually went to Cal Berkeley and I lived

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Speaker 2: in Berkeley. I hung out around caw But we've just

427
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Speaker 2: been together for many, many years and Wet I met

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Speaker 2: her through her sisters. It's been a long time.

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Speaker 1: And how many kids do you have?

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Speaker 2: I have two kids that are now in their mid twenties.

431
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Speaker 1: And what are they up to?

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Speaker 2: My son graduated from el KAT with a degree in

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Speaker 2: game design, but now he's a fledgling filmmaker. In fact,

434
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 2: he's working on the I'm a documentary right now. And

435
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 2: my daughter has a sort of a vintage boutique hips hip.

436
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say hipster, but hip clothes clothing store in

437
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 2: Pedaluma called Buck Lucky. That's actually doing she's having a

438
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 2: good time.

439
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 1: With So they're both kind of still on the payroll.

440
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 2: They're on there. Well, Lina's not Lina's, she's she's her

441
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 2: business is clicking right along, so she's doing her own thing.

442
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 2: Cage he's he's done a few things on his own.

443
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 2: He he just did him and Jimmy Hayward animated that

444
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 2: that infamous Jim Carrey cartoon that he posted to leave

445
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 2: what did he leave? Twitter with it or Instagram? I

446
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 2: can remember. But my son was the animator on that.

447
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 2: And he's got a few things of his own goings,

448
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 2: and he's doing the Primus documentary.

449
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 1: So, your father's a mechanic, comes from a long line

450
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 1: in mechanic. Your mother homemaker? Does she work outside the home?

451
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 2: My mother left the planet several years ago, but she

452
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 2: worked as for many years as a she ran a

453
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 2: pediatrician's office, so she was like the front desk lady

454
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 2: or whatever you call it.

455
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: So how many kids in the family.

456
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,400
Speaker 2: In my family? Yes, I have two children.

457
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: Are you talking about no? No, no, When you're growing

458
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: up brothers and sisters.

459
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 2: I have a stepbrother and stepsister and a half brother

460
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: and half sister.

461
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: And how many grew up in the house with you?

462
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 2: Well, when I was living with my mom, I was

463
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 2: myself and my little brother and little sister, and they

464
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 2: were quite a bit younger than me. And then when

465
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 2: I moved to my father's when I became high school age,

466
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 2: I was living with my stepbrother and step sister that

467
00:25:58,640 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 2: were closer to my age.

468
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 1: Do you have any brothers or sisters who share the

469
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: same father and mother as.

470
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 2: You, different father's, same mother.

471
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: Okay, so what's it like growing up shuttling between these

472
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 1: two places and really being the only person in your

473
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: own little league there?

474
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 2: Well, I, you know, I was a child of the seventies,

475
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 2: and I think it was fairly common. You know, most

476
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 2: of my friends were shuffling off every other weekend to

477
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 2: see the the parent they weren't living full time with,

478
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 2: so it seemed pretty pretty commonplace. You know, there were

479
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 2: pros and cons. The pro is, you got two Christmases.

480
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 2: You know, that was pretty that was pretty sweet. The

481
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 2: con was, you know, I had to divide my time.

482
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 2: But it worked out for me. I went and moved

483
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 2: in with my father when I was thirteen, which was

484
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 2: a which was a great thing for me because that's

485
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 2: where I got exposed to a more musical community and

486
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 2: just got to kind of go reinvent myself. And where

487
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 2: I had been living. My cousin, who I spent every

488
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 2: day with until I was thirteen years old, he ended

489
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 2: up spending the majority of his life in prison, So

490
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 2: it was good that I moved on from that world.

491
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: What was he what were his crimes?

492
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 2: Well, addiction is a big thing in my family, whether

493
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 2: it's alcohol or meth amphetamine. So he went down the

494
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 2: crank trail, as we would have said, and just it

495
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 2: consumed him and he spent a lot of time behind bars.

496
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: So you're growing up, what kind of kid are you? Popular? Outcast,

497
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: good student, bad student?

498
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 2: I think I was somewhere in the middle. I think

499
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 2: moving to my father was a chance for me to

500
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 2: kind of reinvent myself and show up and be you know,

501
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 2: move from group to group until I found who I

502
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 2: was comfortable with. I did. I was the I was

503
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 2: the kid in my family that was would have been

504
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 2: the first one to go to college or the first

505
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 2: male to go to college because I had good grades

506
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 2: and whatnot. But I I had to work because I

507
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 2: had no money. I had to work, and I wanted

508
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 2: to play music. I couldn't work and play music and

509
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 2: go to college. I just wouldn't have been able to

510
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 2: pull it off. So I tried it for a semester.

511
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 2: It didn't work out, and then I opted to work

512
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 2: and play music. And that's and here I am now

513
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 2: talking to you.

514
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: You got a wild sense of humor. Where does that

515
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: come from?

516
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 2: I'm going to say my grandfather, who has who actually

517
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: has a Wamola Wiener named after him, Papa Simoni at

518
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 2: our at our, at our hot dog joint. Our family

519
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 2: tend to tended to deal with heavy issues with humor.

520
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 3: You know.

521
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 2: It was always deflected with humor. That's just always the

522
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 2: way we did things. So he was a very humorous.

523
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: Fellow, Okay, and you pick up the bass? When and why?

524
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 3: So?

525
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 2: When I had mister Kelly's algebra class in ninth grade

526
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 2: and there was a fellow who sat behind me who

527
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 2: wore these big, thick pop bottled glasses, had this long hair,

528
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 2: and he'd wore these these white T shirts, this kind

529
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 2: of a little Filipino guy, and he would sit back

530
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 2: there and look at guitar magazines and roll up dimebags.

531
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 2: And I remember him showing he would show me these magazines, Hey, Clay,

532
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 2: pooh man, look at that's that's the one I'm getting

533
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 2: right there. And he'd show me pictures of the stratocaster,

534
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 2: and I remember the ad specifically a stratocaster, those guy

535
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: holding it going it's a country machine, and somebody overs

536
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 2: going it's a rock machine, and somebody else going it's

537
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 2: a blues machine. He's like, that's the gold guitar I'm getting.

538
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 2: That's what I'm getting. And that guy happened to be

539
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 2: Kirk Hammitt and he he he wanted me to sing

540
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 2: for his band because I would always come in singing

541
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 2: like Aerosmith songs and you know, a Zeppelin and whatnot.

542
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,479
Speaker 2: And he was like, kay poo, I want you to

543
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 2: I want you to sing from a band. Man wants

544
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 2: you to sing from a band. And he gave me

545
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 2: some tapes. He turned me on too, Hendrix. He gave

546
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 2: me some He wanted me to sing cream Sunshine of

547
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 2: your Love. That was gonna be my audition song. And

548
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 2: I took the tapes and I listened to him, but

549
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,239
Speaker 2: I was too scared. I couldn't I couldn't do it.

550
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 2: I was like, dude, I can't do it. I can't

551
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 2: do it. But it gave me the itch to do something.

552
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 2: And I met this other guy that needed that. You know,

553
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 2: bass players weren't big demand because everybody wanted to be

554
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 2: Eddie van Halen. Nobody wanted to play bass. They always

555
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 2: stuck the bass. The guy who couldn't play couldn't play

556
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 2: guitar as well as the other guy, you know, so

557
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 2: he needed a bass player. I knew this guy that

558
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 2: was selling a bass for I think fifteen bucks or something.

559
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 2: I was thirty bucks. I had fifteen bucks, and I

560
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 2: went to my dad. I said, Dad, Jim Ledbetter's got

561
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: this bass. He wants to sell us thirty dollars. I

562
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 2: got fifteen. Can you loan me in fifteene? Is this

563
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 2: something you really want to do? And I was like, yeah,

564
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 2: that's really what I want to do. All right, Well,

565
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 2: let's do this, right, We're gonna go see Al. So

566
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 2: we went to Al's Music Local local music store in town,

567
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 2: and we bought a Fender. It was a Memphis p

568
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 2: bass copy of a Fender Precision one hundred and fifty dollars.

569
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 2: My dad loaned me the rest of the money, and

570
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 2: I worked all summer pulling weeds and schlepping.

571
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: Well, one thing we know about a bass guitar is

572
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: you need an app. So what about an app?

573
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 2: Well, I was screwed there. I didn't get my own

574
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 2: app until I was like well into my twenties. I

575
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 2: actually would the guitar player in this band that I

576
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 2: ended up joining in high school. He had this little

577
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 2: Gibson guitar amp and I would play through this little

578
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 2: Gibson guitar. And the funny thing is I used to

579
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 2: schlep that damn amp back and forth from my house

580
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: because my house was like maybe half a mile from school,

581
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: and I would carry that damn thing. And I only

582
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: weighed like ninety pounds. I'm carrying this damn thing. I

583
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: had a twelve inch speaker. And now those amps are

584
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 2: worth a fortune. They're actually worth quite a bit of money.

585
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 2: I look them up. And but that's what I would

586
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 2: play through. And you couldn't hear me at all. You

587
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 2: could barely hear me. I was, you know, it was

588
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 2: like most bass players in rock bands. I was just

589
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 2: part of the landscape more than anything.

590
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: But rumor was in my day that if you played

591
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: a bass who regular guitar amp, you're going to blow

592
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: it up.

593
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I blew up some amps, but these were

594
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 3: tiny and this is tiny amp, you know, so it

595
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 3: didn't get loud enough to do much of anything.

596
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: You know. Okay, see you come on with a p

597
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: bass copy, you got it? How do you learn how

598
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: to play it.

599
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 2: Well? Because I didn't have an amp, I would sit there,

600
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 2: much to the chagrin of my stepbrother and stepsister as

601
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 2: they're watching their cartoons. I would sit on the edge

602
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 2: of the couch and just play along. And a lot

603
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 2: of times I would put on like rush records and

604
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 2: stuff and just play along. I couldn't hear what I

605
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 2: was doing, so I had no idea if I was

606
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: in the right key or anything. But I could rhythmically

607
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 2: follow along. And that's kind of how I started, was

608
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 2: interpreting these songs without hearing the notation, but just rhythmically

609
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 2: following along.

610
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: And then how did you ultimately learn the right notes

611
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: in the right key? I never did.

612
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we just did this, Like I said,

613
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 2: we just did this rush album. And part of the

614
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 2: impetus of us doing the rush album is. It was

615
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 2: always something that the three of us connected. When we

616
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 2: first got together, me and Lure and Herb. We saw

617
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,239
Speaker 2: this guy with this giant drum kit, was like, well

618
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: he must know some rush. We'd play little bits and

619
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 2: pieces of Rush rifts that we knew from, but we

620
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 2: never knew full songs, you know, just bits and pieces.

621
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 2: So with Farewell the Kings, we had to learn the

622
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 2: entire thing. So I was never one of those guys

623
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 2: that would sit and learn other people's songs, and I

624
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 2: think a lot of it came from I just didn't

625
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 2: have the equipment to do so.

626
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 1: So when you're talking to Kirk, you said, you know

627
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: you taught You said, well, you're running around singing Aerosmith songs,

628
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: et cetera. So prior to this turning point, what was

629
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: your exposure to music and what were you in too?

630
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know how you were growing up, but

631
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 2: there was always the kid in the neighborhood who's house

632
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 2: she hung out at because they had the best stereo,

633
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 2: they had a pool table, maybe they had a dough

634
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 2: boy swimming pool, you know. And Jeff Webster was that guy.

635
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 2: And so Jeff Webster and his older brother Tom, they

636
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,839
Speaker 2: each had their own stereo, plus their parents had a

637
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 2: badass stereo. Plus they had a pool table, plus they

638
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 2: had babie guns. Plus they had a dough boy swimming pool.

639
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 2: And it was that's where we would hang out all

640
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 2: the time. And I, you know, I had I really

641
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 2: had no money. I had like a couple of records,

642
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: but these guys had tons of records, so they were

643
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 2: always playing music. And I was exposed to all this music,

644
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 2: especially when there's an older brother involved. I remember being

645
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 2: in I think we were shooting pool one day and

646
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 2: I hear this darn no no, it's coming blaring out

647
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 2: of his bedroom. I'm like, what the hell is that.

648
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 2: It was the greatest sound I'd ever heard in my life.

649
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 2: And Jeff goes, oh, that's led Zeppelin. I like, wow,

650
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 2: that guy's amazing. And it was heartbreaker and it was

651
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 2: it just it just it just stuck to me. It

652
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 2: was it was the greatest thing I'd ever heard in

653
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 2: my entire life. So I went and got led Zeppelin too,

654
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 2: and I put it on my crappy, little little plastic

655
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 2: turntable with a couple of speakers, and and that was

656
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 2: that was part of the intro. But the thing. And

657
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 2: and like I said, I don't I don't know your

658
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 2: demographic or your age or where you know, where you

659
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 2: grew up. But a big thing that that for us

660
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 2: back in the day was those damn record clubs. You know,

661
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 2: you could join the RCAA Record Club. There was Columbia

662
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 2: Record Club where you could get X amount of records

663
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 2: for a dollar, or there was RCAA Record Club where

664
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 2: you could get not quite as many records, but it

665
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:15,760
Speaker 2: was only a penny. So I went for the penny

666
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 2: one because you know, they had no money. And I

667
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 2: got you know, banned Gypsy's, and I got all the

668
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 2: world's of stage, and I got Montrose jump on it,

669
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 2: and I got I remember getting these records gone. This

670
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 2: is the greatest thing in the world. But that's how

671
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 2: we got turned on besides friends, but how we accumulated

672
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 2: our record collection was through these clubs. And then of

673
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 2: course they'd send you a record every month and you

674
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 2: had to get it back to them by a certain

675
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 2: dat or they charge you for it.

676
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 1: Well, the other thing is the scam was they charged

677
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: you full retail price, So if the album was four

678
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: dollars in a discount store, it was six ninety eight

679
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 1: to the person in the club.

680
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, but when you're thirteen, you just don't think that way.

681
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 2: You're thinking. You know, it's like it's like buying the

682
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 2: six foot Frankenstein in the back of the comic book

683
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 2: for a dollar. You think you're going to get this,

684
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 2: and it's a poster, you know, it's like a black

685
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 2: and white poster. You don't think of that. My dad

686
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 2: was always if it seems too good to be true,

687
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 2: then it is too good to be true. Yeah, right, Dad,

688
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 2: you don't know what you're talking about. I'm getting six

689
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:17,879
Speaker 2: records for a penny, you know.

690
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: Just to you know, dot an I back there, A

691
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: doll Boy was a high level above ground pool, probably

692
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 1: the best brand. But did you also listen to the radio?

693
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,399
Speaker 2: I mean, my mom always had the AM radio going

694
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,760
Speaker 2: when we were kids. You know, I remember her scooting

695
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,760
Speaker 2: across the floor doing her whatever type of Roba sizing

696
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 2: or whatever you called it back then, with her beehive

697
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 2: hair to like Diana Ross and whatnot. But yeah, I

698
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 2: mean I remember when FM radio became a big deal

699
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 2: for us. You know, you'd listen, you'd hear some song.

700
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 2: I remember hearing, you know, waiting to hear what like

701
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 2: what the next sound was going to be? And I

702
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 2: remember one day hearing this song and I was like,

703
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 2: oh my god, that's the greatest song I've ever heard.

704
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 2: And they didn't say who it was. So I kept

705
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 2: listening and this was the Camel. I don't know if

706
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 2: you know Camel, Yeah, k me l Sian Francisco.

707
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

708
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 2: So I'm waiting to hear this song again. What the

709
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 2: hell song was it? What the hell signed? And it

710
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 2: took months and finally I hear it again and was

711
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 2: a Man on the Silver Mountain by Rainbow. I was

712
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 2: just like, oh my god, and it and next thing

713
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 2: you know, I went out, I went down the Rainbow Trail.

714
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: Okay, so just to be clear, you're born in sixty three.

715
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: Led Zeppelin two came out the fall of sixty nine.

716
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: How many years behind that were you into it? And

717
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 1: when did you kind of think in time such as

718
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: you were listening to the stuff that was out right then?

719
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I got into Zeppelin it would have

720
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 2: been in the mid to late seventies. That's when I

721
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 2: sort of became aware of such things. Prior to that,

722
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 2: it was Beatles and I used to buy forty fives

723
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 2: that was the big thing is is if I got

724
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 2: an A on my report card, I'd get a dollar,

725
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 2: and so I would take that dollar and go buy

726
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: a forty five. So needless to say, I didn't have

727
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 2: a lot of forty fives because I didn't get a

728
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 2: lot of a's on my report cards. But I remember

729
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 2: one of the first ones I bought was you know,

730
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 2: Stevie Wonder Superstition, and then Amos Moses by Jerry Reid

731
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 2: and uh and then when we got into albums, that

732
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 2: was like a whole that was a whole new ballgame.

733
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 2: But I think the first album I ever bought was

734
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 2: Why I says Loos Chacones. I can't remember the Cheach

735
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 2: and Chong record. You know, we were we had a

736
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 2: big Cheat and Chong phase, which I which once my

737
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,320
Speaker 2: father heard it, he took it away from me.

738
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,760
Speaker 1: What was the routine on that particular album?

739
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 2: Uh, well, there was quite a few. That was the

740
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 2: one where they would go to the you know there

741
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 2: they go to the drive in. You know, they go

742
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 2: to the drive in and sneak the guy in in

743
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 2: the trunk and they can't get him out and he's

744
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 2: pissing on the trunk and.

745
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 1: Okay, so you get the bass, how long after that

746
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: are you playing with the band?

747
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 2: Immediately? I was immediately in a band because I had

748
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 2: befriended the local guitar player who was like he was

749
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 2: like the guy, he was the hot shot guy, and

750
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 2: he's he had this He had started this band called

751
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 2: Blind Illusion and they needed a bass player. And I

752
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 2: was immediately in the band. And I didn't know how

753
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 2: to play anything because it was all original material. I

754
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 2: couldn't play anybody else's music but his. I only knew

755
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 2: how to play his song. So that's how I learned,

756
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 2: was learning to play him showing me how to play

757
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 2: his songs. It wasn't until I started branching off on

758
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 2: my own and listening to you know, a lot of

759
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 2: a lot of funk back then that I started getting

760
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 2: in to being a little more aggressive with how I

761
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 2: attacked my instrument.

762
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: Okay, you know, I can understand the regular guitar, I

763
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 1: cannot understand the bass. And just you know, there are

764
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 1: many different levels what notes to play, whether you're you know,

765
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: Paul McCartney playing melody on the bass, other people Bill

766
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: Wyman just holding down the bass. What's the trick or

767
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: is it something you're either born with or not.

768
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 2: I don't know if there's a trick to it, but

769
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 2: I do. It is funny seeing people that I have

770
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 2: a friend that's a great guitar player, but when he

771
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 2: gets on the bass, it's just a mess. I'm like,

772
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 2: what the hell is going on here? So but to me,

773
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 2: it's just it's four strings versus six string. I mean,

774
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 2: I have six string basses too, So to me, the

775
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 2: bass itself is, for me, is kind of transcended what

776
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 2: it is theoretically supposed to be. It's it just happens

777
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 2: to be the crayon that I picked out of the box.

778
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: I'm still painting the same pictures I probably would have

779
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 2: painted with what ever instrument. But but so back then, though,

780
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 2: it was, you know, I was just learning and getting

781
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,359
Speaker 2: my way around, and I'm holding down the route you're

782
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 2: playing the root of the chord, you know. But once

783
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 2: I started seeing guys like Lewis Johnson and Larry Graham

784
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 2: and Stanley Clark tear into that thing, that it just

785
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 2: changed my whole perspective on how to approach the instrument.

786
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 1: Okay, you know, how do you figure what notes to

787
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: play on a fretless bass?

788
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's the same principle. It's just you're

789
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 2: you're you're, you have a you're able to loosely interpretate

790
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,760
Speaker 2: interpret the note, you know. I mean, you could still

791
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 2: get warbliness out of a fretted instrument by using vibrato

792
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 2: and whatnot. But with the fretless you can slide in

793
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 2: and out of the note, and and it's it's a

794
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 2: little more uh, liquid sounding, I would say, but it's

795
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:00,320
Speaker 2: the same thing. You kind of. I got to know

796
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:00,919
Speaker 2: where you're going.

797
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: Okay, So you form this band, you're probably playing in

798
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: somebody's living room or garage. Do you play any gigs live?

799
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 2: Our first gig, well, the very first gig I played,

800
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 2: and it's actually in the high school yearbook for that year,

801
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 2: and Kirk still remembers being in the audience was in

802
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 2: the cafeteria of DeAnza High School. And I was so

803
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 2: petrified that I stood sideways. I couldn't face the crowd.

804
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 2: I stood sideways the entire time with my bell bottom

805
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,399
Speaker 2: chord zone and my platform shoes, and you know, and

806
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 2: there we were.

807
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: Kirk wanted you to sing. So in this new band,

808
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: were you singing at all?

809
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 3: No?

810
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 2: I still barely sing, I just I didn't finish puberty

811
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 2: until I was like twenty nine, so my voice was

812
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 2: cracking all over the place I would have been awful.

813
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 2: Was like, I just didn't have I.

814
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 4: Didn't Okay, I got to go back to that joke,

815
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 4: you didn't finish puberty until you were twenty nine.

816
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: What are you actually saying there?

817
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 2: It took me forever I grow in a mustache. It

818
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 2: took me forever to be able to grow a mustache.

819
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 2: My dad always had a mustache. I want a mustache.

820
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm you know, I'm joking a bit, but

821
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 2: I was well into my twenties before I was able

822
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 2: to grow a mustache.

823
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: What about your history with girls back then?

824
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 2: I had some girls, Okay, So on that level, purity worked, yes, yes, okay.

825
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: So by time I went I.

826
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 2: Went from I went from like I went from like

827
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 2: five foot tall in ninth grade over the summer to

828
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 2: six foot one. So I was like, went from little

829
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 2: skinny guy to tall, skinny guy within a matter of months.

830
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: And how did that change your life?

831
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 2: I'm sure changed my life in many many ways. But

832
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 2: I was definitely one of those late bloomer guys that

833
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 2: was you know, I remember my my first you know,

834
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 2: going into the locker room at June and Junior high

835
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 2: and I'm, you know, there's a little less sitting down

836
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 2: and I look over and I can't remember the guy's name,

837
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,399
Speaker 2: but he's he went through puberty, and he had this

838
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 2: big giant bush with this big dogger hanging out, and

839
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 2: I'm bald as an acorn sitting there, going, what the

840
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 2: hell is going on here? And I you know, it's

841
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 2: it's it's it's uh, it's intimidating when you're the only

842
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 2: guy and and and by the time you get to

843
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 2: ninth grade, you're counting your pubes, just waiting to when

844
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 2: you can catch up with everybody else. So so the

845
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 2: height was just just a portion of of of of

846
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 2: building my self esteem.

847
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: Okay, your name is Leslie short Less. I know a

848
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 1: number of people from my father's generation with the name

849
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: less Leslie, but it's not common amongst people your age.

850
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 1: Was that an issue growing up? People give you a

851
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: shit for your name, happy with your name?

852
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 2: Well, so I have mentioned Papa Simoni as the guy

853
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 2: with the humor and who we've named the a Wiener

854
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 2: after at the tasting room. He left the planet several

855
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 2: years ago. But my parents were very young. My mom

856
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 2: was seventeen when I was born. My dad was nineteen

857
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 2: and her mom was sixteen or seventeen when she was born,

858
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 2: so my grandparents were very young. My grandfather was thirty

859
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 2: four years old when I showed up, and needless to say,

860
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 2: he was pretty pissed off that his sixteen year old

861
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 2: daughter had got knocked up by this guy with grease

862
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 2: back hair and a cigarette pack rolled up in his

863
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:52,399
Speaker 2: in his T shirt sleeve, you know, so to gain

864
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 2: favor with and that's why we called him Papa. You

865
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 2: want to be called grandpa. So to gain favor with Papa,

866
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 2: they named him. They named me after him. He was

867
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 2: Leslie Edward Simoni. I'm Leslie Edward Claypool. As a kid,

868
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 2: the name Leslie, it's a girl's name, that's a girl.

869
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 2: I heard it all the time, but it was like whatever,

870
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:16,720
Speaker 2: it could have been worse. And my father's name is Lynn,

871
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 2: and so he kind of grew up a similar thing

872
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 2: had he had a girl's name, as kids would say.

873
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 2: But I have no issue with it now. I was

874
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 2: one of those guys because I wasn't big. I just

875
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 2: tried to be funny. You know, there's that old Richard

876
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 2: Pryor joke about when he went to prison, he made

877
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 2: the guys laugh so they wouldn't get the boutet.

878
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 4: You know.

879
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 2: I made guys laugh so I wouldn't get beat up.

880
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 2: You know. It was like, hey, there's Less. Yeah, he's

881
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 2: a funny guy, you know. So it kept the It

882
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 2: kept most of the bullies a big but there's always

883
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 2: some bully that just wants to be a dick.

884
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 1: And then were you always Less? Who were you ever? Leslie?

885
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 2: I was Leslie when I was little, but then I

886
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 2: became became less. There was a lot of nicknames slung

887
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 2: around too. We always had nicknames all of our buddies.

888
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: Right, And was your name less or did you have

889
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 1: another nickname?

890
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,720
Speaker 2: I've had many nicknames over the years, so but less

891
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 2: has been what people call me.

892
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 1: Well, it's a very interesting thing because people don't have

893
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 1: nicknames anymore. I mean, I'm really a bit older. Oh

894
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit older. You All the baseball players

895
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: had nicknames, no, and there was no such thing as David.

896
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 1: David was always Dave and all this other stuff. You know,

897
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 1: I'm raw, I was never Robert. I was always Bob.

898
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:39,280
Speaker 1: But whatever. So by time you graduate from high school,

899
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,800
Speaker 1: what's the status of your musical career.

900
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 2: I was really into a lot of funk and what

901
00:48:54,719 --> 00:49:00,360
Speaker 2: was called fusion at the time, like Stanley Clark, Clark Project,

902
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 2: Ronnie Laws, Dixie Dregs, things like that.

903
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 1: He as far out as Weather Report and Maha vishn

904
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: Orchestra or not.

905
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 2: A little bit. Not as much. I tended to like

906
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 2: the things. It had to be funky or I just

907
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:21,280
Speaker 2: wasn't that into it, you know. And I never really

908
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 2: went deep into the jocko world because I was a

909
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 2: Stanley Clark guy. You know, I wanted to see that,

910
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 2: you know, I wanted Larry Graham. You Larry Graham just

911
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 2: blew my mind. But as I was graduating in high school,

912
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 2: that was when I you know, I was a huge

913
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 2: rushead throughout all of it. That was they were my guys,

914
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 2: you know, until.

915
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: I Okay, wait, wait, a couple of questions here. Why

916
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 1: is funk centered in the Bay Area. You talk about

917
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 1: Graham Central Station, et cetera. It's a hot bet of funk.

918
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 1: Do you have any ideas there?

919
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 2: Well, I mean there's also I mean, there's Minneapolis funk,

920
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 2: there's Cincinnati funk, you know, talking to Bootsy a while

921
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 2: back and I was like, hey, Bootsy, so who's who's

922
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 2: who is the funkiest of all time? And he was like,

923
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,359
Speaker 2: Ohio Players, Man, Ohio Players, they were the funkiest by far.

924
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,439
Speaker 2: And so it just sort of depends on what kind

925
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 2: of funk it's. It's it's regional, you know, like you

926
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 2: listen to Minneapolis funk, it's got a different feel to

927
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 2: it than like New Orleans funk. So but yes, Larry

928
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 2: Graham and Slicestone coming out of the Bay Area, that

929
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 2: was pretty sweet.

930
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 1: Okay, So what's the status of funk today in the

931
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: world of music?

932
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 2: Shit, I don't know. I'm an old guy. What the

933
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 2: hell do I know. I'd have no idea, to be

934
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 2: honest with you, I really don't.

935
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 1: Well, it certainly isn't dominant, but everything, you know, the

936
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: whole landscape has changed. But going back to okay, how

937
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 1: did you get into Rush?

938
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 2: And that was my first concert. So I remember my

939
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 2: buddy Jeff Webster, who was the guy who had all

940
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 2: the records and he had the fancy stereo in the

941
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 2: dough Boy swimming pool. We picked out things to listen

942
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 2: to by the cover, you look at the cover. Oh,

943
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 2: we got to listen to this. This has got to

944
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 2: be amazing. And so one day I picked up the

945
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 2: cover and there's this guy sitting there in a chair

946
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 2: with all this rubble behind him, and it was rushed

947
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 2: for all the kings we put it on. It's like,

948
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 2: oh my god. So I got turned on to rush.

949
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,919
Speaker 2: And then when I became a when I was talking

950
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:21,879
Speaker 2: about picking up the base, it was Geddy was the guy.

951
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 2: And we got tickets to well, a bunch of friends

952
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 2: of mine got tickets to go see the Hemispheres show

953
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 2: at the Cow Palace. And I didn't have a ticket,

954
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 2: but I had some money, and I hopped in the

955
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 2: car with these guys and Dan Maloney, he was the

956
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 2: older brother of these two twins Joe and Mike Maloney

957
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 2: that I knew, and he was like the guy would

958
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 2: buy his beer. He was old enough to get his beer.

959
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 2: And on he drove drove us all to the Cow

960
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,479
Speaker 2: Palace to see Hemispheres, and we bought some. He bought

961
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 2: some low Umbrow on the way there, but he would

962
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 2: buy it from Nick's Delicatessen, which never kept the beer

963
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,839
Speaker 2: quite cold enough because open top. So it was kind

964
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 2: of warm low umbrowse So I drank three low umbrows

965
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 2: and my you know, ninety pound body, and you know,

966
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 2: got there and threw up in the parking lot and

967
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 2: bought a scout ticket even though the show wasn't sold out,

968
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 2: and just watched this show that completely totally blew my

969
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,240
Speaker 2: mind and changed my life. It was Pat Travers opening

970
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 2: for Rush on the Hemispheres tour, so I got to

971
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,399
Speaker 2: see Mars on Base, which was amazing, got to see

972
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,799
Speaker 2: Tommy Aldridge do this incredible solo and do you know,

973
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 2: play with his bare hands, and then Rush just and

974
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,320
Speaker 2: watching the signus that rossa Nante going through the black

975
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 2: hole on my my little fourteen year old mind was

976
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 2: just percolating. So that was my intro into Rush.

977
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 1: Well, I think Rush started on Mercury then went to Atlantic.

978
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 1: If you go to a Rush show I saw the

979
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 1: second and last tour, there are very few women in

980
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: the audience. I mean, if you meet these guys. Of

981
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 1: course one's dead now, very nice guys from Canada explain

982
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 1: magic and why it's such a male thing.

983
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 2: You know, I think it's a lot like it's a

984
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,319
Speaker 2: lot like being a treky, you know, It's like it's

985
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 2: one of those. It's kind of a guilty pleasure, very devout,

986
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:19,479
Speaker 2: devoted group of individuals, somewhat obsessive. You know, they weren't

987
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,320
Speaker 2: writing songs about partying and chicks and all this stuff.

988
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 2: They were writing about you know, black holes and and

989
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 2: ships named Rossinante and battling evil forces and dungeons and

990
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,839
Speaker 2: dragons and all this cool mythological stuff that was that

991
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 2: was enticing for guys that maybe the Red sci Fi

992
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 2: or were trekys. But and then the musicality was just insane.

993
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:49,320
Speaker 2: It would blow my mind when people go, ah, I

994
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 2: don't like Rush. I was like, what are you talking about?

995
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 2: You know, some people were rubbed a little bit the

996
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,839
Speaker 2: wrong way by Getty's voice, But you know it's like

997
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 2: John Lydon. You know, John Lydon's one of my favorite

998
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 2: singers of all time. You know, some people don't like

999
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 2: the sound of John's voice, but there's a character to

1000
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 2: it that's unbelievable. Fits the tone, fits the aesthetic of

1001
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 2: what they're doing.

1002
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: And how do you feel is a Rush fanatic that

1003
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 1: they've hung it up? Do you think they should get

1004
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 1: another drummer go on the road.

1005
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 2: Well, we just played with them recently. You know, I

1006
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 2: keep pretty good contact with Geddy. I really don't know.

1007
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 2: That's kind of their thing. It's that's a tough one,

1008
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:34,319
Speaker 2: you know. That's that's a that's a kinship and a

1009
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 2: and being in a band. It's it's it's like a

1010
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 2: it's a it's a marriage. It's there's all the same emotions.

1011
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,799
Speaker 2: There's all the same drama and pleasure, and you know,

1012
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 2: there's you know, besides rolling around under the sheets. But

1013
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 2: the it's a it's a very it's it's a very

1014
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 2: tight bond. And so it's not for me to say

1015
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:02,719
Speaker 2: what they should do, to be honest with you, but uh,

1016
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 2: it would be an it would be an interesting thing

1017
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 2: to see for sure. And I have seen him. I

1018
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 2: mean they played with us, so I've seen him play

1019
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 2: without without Neil. But I mean it's like The Police

1020
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,400
Speaker 2: without Stuart Copeland. It just doesn't seem to it just

1021
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 2: it would be, it would be.

1022
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:21,720
Speaker 1: The difference is is that Steing goes on the road,

1023
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 1: whereas life sinning Getty appear to be retired.

1024
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 2: I know Alex has a he has a new project

1025
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 2: that he's doing with some friends. I've heard it, and

1026
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 2: it's it's it's it's cool. I think, like anything, you

1027
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 2: you you move through your life, and you you reflect

1028
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 2: what's interesting to you at that particular time. And if

1029
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 2: they become nostalgic about it or or or what have you,

1030
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 2: they'll go and do it, I would think. But I'm

1031
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 2: not sure if right now they're they're they're they're fields.

1032
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 1: Okay, just staying with that nostalgic point. Even you too

1033
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:06,840
Speaker 1: is playing complete albums. Now, you're a guy who's constantly evolving.

1034
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 1: How do you feel about nostalgia?

1035
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:14,439
Speaker 2: I mean, I love nostalgia, but there's also a part

1036
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:16,920
Speaker 2: of me that that's I have a little bit of

1037
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 2: I love nostalgia as a as a fan, you know,

1038
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,839
Speaker 2: I love it. It's it's it's it's an amazing, wonderful thing.

1039
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 2: As a musician, a creative person, I like to keep

1040
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 2: moving forward. It's hard for me, Like we're trying to

1041
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 2: do all these live records, these Primus live records. It's

1042
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 2: hard for me to listen to them because I'm like,

1043
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 2: you know, I'll listen to them, and I it's fun,

1044
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 2: but I'd rather hear some new stuff. I'd rather keep

1045
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 2: moving forward. But as a fan, and I know I

1046
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 2: speak for a lot of fans, people come to your

1047
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:47,319
Speaker 2: shows they want to see, they want to they want

1048
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,279
Speaker 2: to see, they want to see those songs that made

1049
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 2: them feel like they did when they were in nineteen

1050
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 2: ninety eight and they were hanging out, you know, wakeboarding

1051
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:59,240
Speaker 2: on some lake or whatever, whatever, whatever, They can associate

1052
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 2: it with good times, bad times, whatever it is. Music

1053
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 2: is the It's like a smell. It brings you back

1054
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:08,319
Speaker 2: to a certain time in your life and hopefully those

1055
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 2: are good times. And so I think, as a fan,

1056
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 2: you want to see that, but I do. I also

1057
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 2: like the Miles Davis theory, which was he just wanted

1058
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 2: to keep going forward. He'd never want to play anything.

1059
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 2: He didn't want to go back and play that stuff.

1060
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:26,880
Speaker 1: You know, to what degree do you personally feel a

1061
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 1: responsibility to your audience.

1062
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 2: Well, when I'm in primus mode, I feel that responsibility

1063
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 2: and we go out and we play. We play a

1064
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 2: smattering of we don't have hits, but there's those ones

1065
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:44,439
Speaker 2: that people recognize. But I also know that people really

1066
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 2: dig it when we dig deep into something that we

1067
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 2: played twice back in ninety six or whatever. You know,

1068
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 2: people like that. That's part of the deep fandom and

1069
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 2: I think that's what that's what we cater to because

1070
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,320
Speaker 2: that's part of ourselves. But I've always said since the

1071
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 2: get go, as a selfish person, I like to go

1072
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 2: out and play what I want to play because I

1073
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 2: feel like if I'm enjoying what I'm doing, that will translate,

1074
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 2: whereas if I'm going I won't name any names, but

1075
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 2: I've met some musicians that have had some big ass

1076
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 2: hit and it's not necessarily it's kind of like a

1077
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 2: Poppy Ballady thing and they go, oh my god, we

1078
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 2: got to play that damn song again. I wish we

1079
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 2: could just be like you guys and just go play

1080
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,720
Speaker 2: all this crazy shit, you know. So I'm kind of

1081
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 2: glad we're not tethered by something like that because we've

1082
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 2: never really had that big hit, you know. But I

1083
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 2: also like counterbalancing that by going out and doing like

1084
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 2: my Bastard Jazz project, where we just show up and

1085
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 2: just start jamming and it's unbelievable. It's so much fun,

1086
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 2: so I get to scratch that itch.

1087
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 1: Do you feel that you have a large enough dedicated

1088
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 1: fan base that they'll follow you or whatever you want

1089
00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 1: to do, or you ever do something and say, well,

1090
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 1: shit me people, people aren't going to be interested in

1091
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 1: this one.

1092
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 2: I just don't think that way. When I did think

1093
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 2: that way, I got in trouble. And I say that

1094
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 2: back going back to like the Antipop era, you know,

1095
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, we had done this record, the

1096
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 2: Brown Album, which we were so proud of, and we

1097
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 2: had taken all these chances, and it was super low

1098
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 2: fi and old school, and it just didn't resonate as well.

1099
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:28,479
Speaker 2: But then again, it resonated better with other people.

1100
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 1: You know.

1101
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 2: Tom Waits once told me that's his favorite Primus record.

1102
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 2: That means the.

1103
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 1: World to me.

1104
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 2: But then going in to do Antipop and here in

1105
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 2: the you guys might want to work with a producer.

1106
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 2: Hey maybe you should work with this guy. Hey maybe

1107
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 2: I'll bring somebody in to do this, and be second

1108
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 2: guessing and starting the second guest and starting to think, oh, well,

1109
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 2: we used to get the radio, we used to get MTV,

1110
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 2: how do we get that again? And for many years

1111
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 2: I couldn't even listen to Antipop because I remember that

1112
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 2: time is just not a very pleasant time. There was

1113
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 2: a lot of second guessing. It was when we started

1114
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 2: not really getting along so well. It just kind of sucked.

1115
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 2: But now as time goes by and you know, the

1116
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 2: edges of rode off of things and you can remember

1117
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 2: the good times, as we do with everything in our lives,

1118
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:16,400
Speaker 2: I can listen to it and go, wow, that's actually

1119
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 2: kind of cool. I Sonically, I think it's a great

1120
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 2: sounding record. But when we came back to it, like

1121
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 2: when we just did the consparanoia thing with Primus, it

1122
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:28,920
Speaker 2: was we did when we're not thinking about MTV or

1123
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 2: which we have in a long time, or radio or

1124
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 2: any of that stuff. I think we made better stuff

1125
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 2: in the early days. We never thought we were going

1126
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 2: to I remember having a meeting with our attorney after

1127
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 2: our it was either our first or second record, and

1128
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 2: we got offered a publishing deal and it was a

1129
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 2: considerable amount of money, and he was like, you know,

1130
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 2: the only way this publishing deal is going to be

1131
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 2: bad for you is if you sell over one hundred

1132
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 2: thousand records. Do you honestly believe you're going to sell

1133
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 2: over one hundred thousand records? And we're like, yeah, one

1134
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 2: hundred thousand records. That's a shitload of records. We never

1135
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 2: thought we were gonna get on radio or MTV or

1136
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 2: any of that stuff and we sold way more than

1137
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand records.

1138
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 1: So okay, since you keep mentioning him, how do you

1139
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 1: meet Tom Waite?

1140
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 2: Well, I was a big Tom Waits fan way back

1141
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 2: in the day. A friend of mine's mom. She always

1142
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 2: had this really cool she was a very good friend.

1143
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 2: She had amazing taste. She was one turned me onto

1144
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 2: the Residence and all that Snake Finger, all that Ralph

1145
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 2: record stuff. But she played me some Tom Waits one day.

1146
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:43,160
Speaker 2: I was like, holy shit, this is amazing. And then

1147
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 2: my buddy Joe Gore played me Rain Dogs when it

1148
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 2: came out, and I was like, holy shit, this is unbelievable.

1149
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 2: So I was a big Tom Waits fan. I was

1150
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:53,800
Speaker 2: turning on Lure and everybody onto Tom Waits at first.

1151
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 2: I remember playing. I was like, you gotta hear Tom Waits,

1152
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 2: and Lure thought, I said John Waite, which was like

1153
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 2: the singer for Candy or something, and he's like, what

1154
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 2: the hell are you talking about. But when we went

1155
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 2: to do our first record with Interscope, we had this

1156
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:11,439
Speaker 2: song Tommy the Cat, which we deliberately did not put

1157
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 2: on the Frizzle Fry record because we wanted it to

1158
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 2: be on whatever our major label release was going to be.

1159
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 2: Because Frizzle Fry we recorded ourselves. We're originally going to

1160
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:25,560
Speaker 2: put it on ourselves. But so I was talking to

1161
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 2: Tom Wally, who is our champion at Innerscope, and I said,

1162
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 2: you know, I'd love to just get somebody else to

1163
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 2: be the voice of Tommy the Cat, you know, some

1164
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 2: interesting character, someone like Tom Waits. He's like, well, why

1165
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 2: don't we get Tom Waits. I said, what the hell,

1166
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 2: what do you mean that you can do that. He's like, yeah,

1167
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 2: you know, we'll get a hold of him mis management.

1168
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 2: So I wrote him this letter.

1169
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 1: Hey, you know.

1170
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 2: So we were recording at Fantasy Records and Lure was

1171
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 2: I had left me and Lern had an apartment in Berkeley,

1172
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 2: and I'd gone home for something to left Lurr to

1173
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 2: do his guitar solos. I get home and I click

1174
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 2: on the the answering machines.

1175
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 1: Hey less, says Tom.

1176
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 2: Tom Waite's yeah, yeah, I've been listening to this song. Yeah,

1177
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:10,439
Speaker 2: that would be a wonderful thing, because I had said

1178
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 2: it would be a wonderful thing if you did this.

1179
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 2: And I called Laura. I'm like, oh my god, Laura,

1180
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 2: you got to hear this. I put the phone over there,

1181
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 2: and Tom came down and he did the voice of

1182
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 2: Tommy the Cat, and he brought his son, Casey, who

1183
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:23,120
Speaker 2: was four years old at the time. And I've known

1184
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 2: Casey ever since. But we just kind of kept in touch,

1185
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 2: and I moved up to the country kind of near

1186
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:32,760
Speaker 2: where he lived, and we just have always kept in touch.

1187
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 2: And I played on a bunch of his records, and

1188
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:38,760
Speaker 2: I've turned him on to some musicians, and I know

1189
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 2: his family. He's him and Kathleen. They're great, They're amazing people,

1190
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:44,440
Speaker 2: great people, good friends.

1191
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 1: Okay, you talk about Trey, you talk about Tom Waite,

1192
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 1: you talk about Stuart Copeland. Is that your personality to

1193
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 1: really make friends with everybody, know everybody? Or are you

1194
01:03:57,520 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 1: more of a homebody or you in contact with people

1195
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 1: all the time?

1196
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 2: Those are the only three people I know?

1197
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 1: Oh really?

1198
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:13,760
Speaker 2: Now? Ah, I don't know. I've been very fortunate that,

1199
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 2: you know, I've I've always said this is that I've

1200
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 2: got to meet and befriend a lot of my heroes,

1201
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 2: and pretty much all of them have been really unbelievable. There's,

1202
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 2: you know, been a couple of instances with some film

1203
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:33,440
Speaker 2: stars it's been a little weird, and there's been you know,

1204
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 2: but for the most part, everybody's been spectacular and unbelievable

1205
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 2: and and they've become my friends and oftentimes collaborators. So

1206
01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 2: to me, that's the greatest thing about anything I've done,

1207
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:51,680
Speaker 2: besides being a father. I'm very proud of my children,

1208
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 2: my family. But when I think about that stuff, you know,

1209
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:00,800
Speaker 2: like I said, you know, it's like I'm in a

1210
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 2: band with Stuart Copeland, which that's to me, that's like

1211
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:09,160
Speaker 2: John Bonham, Stuart Copland, those are those are the guys.

1212
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 2: But he's also one of my closest friends. He's like,

1213
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:15,760
Speaker 2: he's we just chitchat about bullshit.

1214
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 1: You know.

1215
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 2: That's an amazing thing to me.

1216
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 1: You know, Okay, what do I know if you're a

1217
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 1: regular musician as opposed to someone with a name. People

1218
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:27,920
Speaker 1: are networking all the time for work. So the nature

1219
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:29,600
Speaker 1: of those people, as I say, a lot of these

1220
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 1: people are not front people. They are certainly from people

1221
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,080
Speaker 1: who do a lot less networking back then and now.

1222
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:40,120
Speaker 1: And it's one thing to meet famous people, and I've

1223
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:44,480
Speaker 1: met a zillion, it's another thing to keep up the relationship.

1224
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:48,560
Speaker 1: There are certain people I've met. Every time we connect,

1225
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:51,840
Speaker 1: you know, we have a great time. But my identity,

1226
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:54,920
Speaker 1: my personality is I'm not going to reach out to them.

1227
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 1: Someone has to keep it. He keep hitting the ball

1228
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 1: back over the net to keep it Owen. That sounds

1229
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 1: like that's part of your personality.

1230
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:05,160
Speaker 2: Well, I like that analogy. I like the way you

1231
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:08,920
Speaker 2: phrased that. I mean, look, first of all, I'm the

1232
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 2: worst guy when it comes to famous people or people

1233
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 2: that I respect. Like if I if you know, I

1234
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:20,000
Speaker 2: had an opportunity one time. I had a film in

1235
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 2: this film festival in London, and and there was this

1236
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 2: Beatles film, the Beatles Documentary in there too, and George

1237
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 2: Martin was there, and I had an opport toay, hey,

1238
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 2: you want to meet George. I was like, I cannot

1239
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 2: meet George Martin. I don't want to meet I can't

1240
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 2: meet George Martin because if it wouldn't have been perfect,

1241
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:36,960
Speaker 2: if he would have been in a bad mood, which

1242
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 2: we all get in bad moods, and we're not always

1243
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 2: as gracious as maybe we should be, it would have

1244
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 2: it would have tainted something to me that is one

1245
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 2: of the most influential, glorious things of any creativity. I've

1246
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 2: that I've absorbed into my into my consciousness. So I

1247
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 2: just wanted to admire on the far. I didn't want

1248
01:06:57,720 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 2: to meet Santa Claus. I wanted to you know, I

1249
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:01,080
Speaker 2: met his on he was a great guy and met

1250
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:03,080
Speaker 2: a couple of people who worked for him. But I

1251
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:08,320
Speaker 2: couldn't meet George. And I'm totally fine with that. I've

1252
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 2: never been that guy that when there's There was one

1253
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:15,920
Speaker 2: time I was doing this conference in it was a CMJ,

1254
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 2: I had a CMJ thing and and Lemmy had just

1255
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:20,600
Speaker 2: spoke before me, and he was like in this in

1256
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 2: this in the dressing room, and they were like, oh,

1257
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 2: go on and meet let me go in, and I

1258
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 2: was I was like, what am I going to say

1259
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:28,400
Speaker 2: to Lemmy? I'm not that guy that goes up hoody dude,

1260
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 2: how's going? I really like your stuff. I've never been

1261
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:34,080
Speaker 2: good at that. If I meet somebody on a you know,

1262
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 2: and it's meant to be, you know, we're getting a

1263
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:40,840
Speaker 2: sandwich at the table or what, I don't know. I'm

1264
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 2: not good at going up and being that guy.

1265
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 1: Never have been, and I don't know.

1266
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:52,240
Speaker 2: Okay, So so my relationships are based on just like, hey,

1267
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:54,640
Speaker 2: we all like any other friends you meet that you

1268
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 2: happen to hit it off with.

1269
01:07:56,800 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 1: Okay, two things. I not to having pictures taken. I

1270
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 1: don't need a wall of fame. Two I've learned I

1271
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:06,680
Speaker 1: won't talk to anybody unless they know who I am.

1272
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:11,520
Speaker 1: That's not something meaning my status. It's just otherwise it's unfulfilling.

1273
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:13,840
Speaker 1: They're just shaking your hand in another person out there,

1274
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 1: you're testifying. But I am not good at keeping the

1275
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:22,080
Speaker 1: relationship going. So my question is are you the person

1276
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:24,040
Speaker 1: hey and me? Well, give me your phone number, your

1277
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:26,320
Speaker 1: email address, let's keep it going, and then you email

1278
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 1: them what's up now.

1279
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:30,800
Speaker 2: I'm terrible at that. In fact, my wife is way

1280
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:34,040
Speaker 2: better at that type of thing. My social life would

1281
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:35,840
Speaker 2: be awful if it wasn't for her. You know, I

1282
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 2: have my few fishing buddies, and that's kind of kind

1283
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 2: of what I do. But it's funny because I have

1284
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:45,640
Speaker 2: friends that whenever they show up in a town, that

1285
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 2: get their book out and they go, oh, I'm gonna

1286
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:48,640
Speaker 2: call such and such and such a I never do

1287
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:50,280
Speaker 2: any of that. I show up in town. I'm there

1288
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:50,920
Speaker 2: to do my job.

1289
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:51,679
Speaker 1: I do my job.

1290
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:55,240
Speaker 2: If I see somebody that I know that happened to

1291
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:56,680
Speaker 2: come to the show. That's a wonderful thing.

1292
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 1: But I don't.

1293
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:00,240
Speaker 2: I very very rarely seek them out. But my life

1294
01:09:00,280 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 2: will because she's good at that stuff.

1295
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:07,360
Speaker 1: Okay, so you meet Tom Waits, you meet Stuart Coplan.

1296
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:09,440
Speaker 1: How does it turn into a friendship.

1297
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:12,960
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, like I said, it's because we bonded

1298
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:16,439
Speaker 2: over things besides, hey, how you doing. You're Tom Waits.

1299
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:20,080
Speaker 2: You know, we bonded over other things. It's like like

1300
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:22,080
Speaker 2: any other friendship. I mean, how often do you meet

1301
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:25,759
Speaker 2: somebody at the at the hardware store, at some friends

1302
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:28,920
Speaker 2: party and you keep up with them? It's sometimes you do,

1303
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:31,840
Speaker 2: sometimes you don't. It depends on if you click in

1304
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:32,519
Speaker 2: other ways.

1305
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:35,240
Speaker 1: Well, I find as you get older, it's like I

1306
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 1: was listening to a podcast and was it Rob Reiner saying,

1307
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 1: you know you can't show up at anybody's house anymore.

1308
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 1: You show up somebody's house, it's going to blow their mind.

1309
01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 1: You know, you a criminal whatever. And it's harder to

1310
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 1: make new friends, not as hard in this business maybe

1311
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:54,120
Speaker 1: for other people. But you mentioned phishing off handedly. Are

1312
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:55,559
Speaker 1: you like a big fisher person?

1313
01:09:56,360 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 2: Well, like I said, my are all mechanics. We didn't

1314
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:05,840
Speaker 2: go to On weekends. When I go visit my dad,

1315
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:09,360
Speaker 2: we were either working on some crappy rental property that

1316
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 2: my grandmother owned, or we were out fishing. That's what

1317
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:14,960
Speaker 2: we did. We didn't go to baseball games. We didn't

1318
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 2: go to football games. He wasn't a sports guy. We

1319
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:19,679
Speaker 2: would go fishing with my uncles and even my grandfather.

1320
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:21,720
Speaker 2: I'd go fishing with my So it's just one of

1321
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:23,840
Speaker 2: those things that I grew up with and I very much.

1322
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 2: I enjoy it. To me, when I go fishing, I'm

1323
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:29,839
Speaker 2: not thinking about anything else. It's like people that go golfing.

1324
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:34,120
Speaker 2: They're just in the game and that's it. So that's

1325
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 2: been my thing since since I was a little guy.

1326
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:39,600
Speaker 1: How often do you go fishing? Do you go to

1327
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 1: Alaska in Chile to go fishing or you just guy,

1328
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:46,679
Speaker 1: you know, doing it occasionally in the same area.

1329
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:50,680
Speaker 2: Well, I keep a boat out in Badega Bay. So,

1330
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:53,679
Speaker 2: but they canceled salmon season this year because the counts

1331
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:55,519
Speaker 2: were low, so it's not going to be as much

1332
01:10:55,560 --> 01:10:58,680
Speaker 2: fishing this year. But the blue fin came in last year,

1333
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 2: which was an amazing thing. I didn't get one, but

1334
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:02,960
Speaker 2: I went out and chased him around. I have a pond.

1335
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:06,720
Speaker 2: If I point that way, about two hundred yards that way.

1336
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:08,920
Speaker 2: We have a pretty good sized pond that there's some

1337
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:11,920
Speaker 2: bass in it. If I'm inclined, I can sneak down there.

1338
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:13,280
Speaker 2: I used to take the kids down there all the time,

1339
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 2: pop some bass and look at them and toss them

1340
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:20,240
Speaker 2: back in the water. It's just to me, it's very relaxing.

1341
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:23,920
Speaker 1: Okay, you talk about the pond. How much property do

1342
01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 1: you have.

1343
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:26,680
Speaker 2: We've got about thirty seven acres here.

1344
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 1: How close is your closest a neighbor.

1345
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 2: A couple hundred yards?

1346
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:39,880
Speaker 1: Oh okay. So you graduate from high school, you say

1347
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 1: you want to do music? What's the next step? And

1348
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 1: you say you have a day job? What's going on there?

1349
01:11:46,479 --> 01:11:48,840
Speaker 1: You say you're a fan of funk? Confusion at that time?

1350
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:49,719
Speaker 1: What's the next step?

1351
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:58,479
Speaker 2: Well, my father always said he was very supportive. Actually,

1352
01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:00,120
Speaker 2: I mean, he's got me my first base. And I

1353
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:01,920
Speaker 2: didn't even find out till years later that he got

1354
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:04,080
Speaker 2: shipped from his family like what the.

1355
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:04,599
Speaker 1: Hell are you doing?

1356
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 2: He's going to become a drug addict, the blah blah,

1357
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 2: you know, you know, they couldn't understand, and but he

1358
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:14,880
Speaker 2: always used to tell me, hey, this music thing's great.

1359
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:16,880
Speaker 2: He knew that it was keeping me out of trouble.

1360
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:18,960
Speaker 2: You know, he watched my cousin go. You know, my

1361
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:22,559
Speaker 2: cousin went and ended up eventually in jail. And if

1362
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:24,760
Speaker 2: you don't keep and I still believe this to this day,

1363
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:29,000
Speaker 2: is anytime a kid shows an interest in anything that

1364
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:32,240
Speaker 2: gives them some form of focus, it keeps them. They're

1365
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:35,080
Speaker 2: less appt to get in trouble. And he knew it

1366
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,160
Speaker 2: was going to keep me, keep me from going and

1367
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:44,200
Speaker 2: doing just you know, mundane stupid shit. So he always

1368
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 2: told me, He's like, hey, this music thing's great, but

1369
01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 2: learn a trade. Learn a trade, Learn a trade so

1370
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:49,600
Speaker 2: they have something to fall back on. I have a

1371
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:52,320
Speaker 2: shitload of trades. I used to bust tires, I used

1372
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:55,280
Speaker 2: to mix auto paints. I was a shipping receiving guy.

1373
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:59,240
Speaker 2: I was a bench tech at an audio company, and

1374
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:02,040
Speaker 2: eventually I was a carpenter, which I really enjoyed, actually

1375
01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 2: so until we started printing our own T shirts. And

1376
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:12,360
Speaker 2: that's was my last job. But so I had the

1377
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:18,479
Speaker 2: fortune and misfortune of getting my heart completely destroyed. When

1378
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:20,280
Speaker 2: I graduated high school. I had a girlfriend. I was

1379
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:21,880
Speaker 2: going to marry her, and she was like the hot

1380
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:25,200
Speaker 2: girl of the school, and she just destroyed me. I

1381
01:13:25,439 --> 01:13:31,200
Speaker 2: was a total wreck and I ended up meeting this guy.

1382
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:34,120
Speaker 1: A little bit slower. How did she destroy you just.

1383
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:37,120
Speaker 2: By like dumping me, well, not really dumping me, but

1384
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:40,160
Speaker 2: she opted to not be with me anymore.

1385
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:44,760
Speaker 1: And okay, wait, wait, usually there's a choice. She's not

1386
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:47,920
Speaker 1: with less, there's somebody else, or she's moving away, or

1387
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:50,240
Speaker 1: she's going to college she envisions a better future.

1388
01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:52,080
Speaker 2: No, no, let's not. I gotta get too deep. But

1389
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:55,639
Speaker 2: let's just say everybody wanted to be with this girl,

1390
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:57,519
Speaker 2: so she had a lot of options.

1391
01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:00,439
Speaker 1: But anyway, okay, the obvious, the obvious question is where

1392
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:01,040
Speaker 1: is she today?

1393
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:07,240
Speaker 2: I have no idea, but but she looked like Marie Osmond.

1394
01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:08,320
Speaker 2: Let's just put it that way.

1395
01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:13,560
Speaker 1: You you right, You're enough for me? But okay, no,

1396
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:14,600
Speaker 1: definitely not.

1397
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:17,920
Speaker 2: She was a cross between Marie Osmond and Pat Benattar.

1398
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:18,760
Speaker 1: She had that look.

1399
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:22,160
Speaker 2: Okay, so there you go. But anyway, I got my

1400
01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:24,559
Speaker 2: heart broke, so I wanted to get the hell out

1401
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:28,400
Speaker 2: of my little town of else Branty. My friend Kathy Quavis,

1402
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:30,160
Speaker 2: who had turned me on to the residence and Tom

1403
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:32,040
Speaker 2: Waits and all this stuff. Her son was this punk

1404
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:35,000
Speaker 2: rock dude and he was always going to shows in Berkeley.

1405
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:36,880
Speaker 2: I said, hey, man, if you get the tickets, I'll

1406
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:39,400
Speaker 2: drive because I had my sixty eight Cougar. So next

1407
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:41,240
Speaker 2: thing you know, I'm hanging out with him in San Francisco.

1408
01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:43,400
Speaker 1: Wait, sixty eight cougar is kind of a cool car.

1409
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:45,240
Speaker 1: And you end up with a sixty eight Cougar.

1410
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 2: That was my first car. That was my that was

1411
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:49,639
Speaker 2: it was a beautiful car. Well, I told you, we're

1412
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 2: all out on mechanics, so I bought this sixty eighth.

1413
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 2: My dad bought the sixty eight Cougar for me like

1414
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:57,519
Speaker 2: fifteen hundred bucks and we fixed it up. So anyway,

1415
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:01,040
Speaker 2: so we would spend all this time going to Berkeley

1416
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:04,400
Speaker 2: and San Francisco to go to all these shows. And

1417
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:08,439
Speaker 2: I eventually moved to Berkeley and to basically get away

1418
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:11,879
Speaker 2: from the the you know, the heartache of this this breakup.

1419
01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:16,160
Speaker 2: And it changed my life for the better because a

1420
01:15:16,600 --> 01:15:22,400
Speaker 2: there's the level of progressive people in else Brownie versus Berkeley.

1421
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:25,599
Speaker 2: It's quite a bit different. So I was meeting these people,

1422
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:28,759
Speaker 2: these artists, and these different these people from different cultures

1423
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:31,840
Speaker 2: and go into shows every single night, going to comedy shows,

1424
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 2: hanging out of the Berkeley Square and really got just

1425
01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:39,200
Speaker 2: turned onto a lot of amazing, amazing stuff in a

1426
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:42,040
Speaker 2: very short period of time. So that's when I started

1427
01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:46,960
Speaker 2: getting into more you know, abstract music, I guess you'd

1428
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:50,080
Speaker 2: call it, getting into like early Peter Gabriel and Public

1429
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:54,559
Speaker 2: Image Limited and the old Ralph record stuff and Fred

1430
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:58,280
Speaker 2: Frith and some of the material stuff and just things

1431
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:02,519
Speaker 2: that were my friends. And Elsea Brady would say, what's

1432
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:07,840
Speaker 2: this weird ass shit you're listening to? So that was

1433
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:09,720
Speaker 2: kind of for me. That was that was a big

1434
01:16:09,960 --> 01:16:13,280
Speaker 2: blossoming for me as an as a human and as

1435
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:13,719
Speaker 2: an artist.

1436
01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:18,160
Speaker 1: Okay, you're listening to all that stuff. What about your

1437
01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:20,160
Speaker 1: playing the bass in your professional career?

1438
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:23,920
Speaker 2: Well, at the time, I was playing in this in

1439
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:26,760
Speaker 2: this R and B band called the Tommy Crank Band,

1440
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:30,040
Speaker 2: which these guys were all way older than me, and

1441
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:35,000
Speaker 2: we play literally play the biker bars all you Antioch

1442
01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:38,120
Speaker 2: and Sam Pablo and I'd play three to five nights

1443
01:16:38,120 --> 01:16:40,720
Speaker 2: a week, four sets a night, playing Old Booker T

1444
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:44,960
Speaker 2: and the MG's and Sam and Dave and James Brown

1445
01:16:45,120 --> 01:16:47,360
Speaker 2: and the meters a lot of stuff that I didn't

1446
01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:50,720
Speaker 2: even realize what it was until years later. But these

1447
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:54,040
Speaker 2: guys were all older than me and it it was

1448
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:56,799
Speaker 2: a wonderful experience. That was that was part of my paycheck.

1449
01:16:56,840 --> 01:16:58,320
Speaker 2: I would do that at night and then have my

1450
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:01,519
Speaker 2: day gig and that. At the time, I was trying

1451
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:03,479
Speaker 2: to get a band going, and I eventually in nineteen

1452
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:07,680
Speaker 2: eighty four started this band called Primate and it and

1453
01:17:08,439 --> 01:17:11,800
Speaker 2: we made a demo and it Actually.

1454
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:14,800
Speaker 1: Before you get there, you're playing in the R and

1455
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:19,640
Speaker 1: B band at night. What is the dream? Because you

1456
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:22,280
Speaker 1: have to have a dream sustain you, otherwise lace too hard.

1457
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:26,160
Speaker 2: Well, my dream was to be a professional musician, but

1458
01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:27,439
Speaker 2: play my own stuff.

1459
01:17:28,080 --> 01:17:30,920
Speaker 1: So I okay, so you were writing your own stuff,

1460
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:32,760
Speaker 1: you knew what kind of music you wanted to make.

1461
01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:35,640
Speaker 2: Then I had been playing. Look I was back then

1462
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:38,280
Speaker 2: there was BAM magazine, Bay Area Music Magazine. Of course

1463
01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:39,720
Speaker 2: I'd look in the back of BAM you know who

1464
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:42,720
Speaker 2: needs a bass player? And I auditioned for everybody there was.

1465
01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:45,439
Speaker 2: I auditioned for everybody that needed a bass player, and

1466
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 2: there was just nothing I found exciting. And there was

1467
01:17:49,320 --> 01:17:53,880
Speaker 2: a band called the Hoovers that I remember talking to them.

1468
01:17:53,960 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 2: They were a ska band and they were pretty cool,

1469
01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:59,320
Speaker 2: but they didn't want me. But other than that, there

1470
01:17:59,400 --> 01:18:02,599
Speaker 2: was nothing that I found exciting. So I decided, I'm

1471
01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:04,120
Speaker 2: going to start my own thing, and I want to

1472
01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:08,040
Speaker 2: combine all these weird elements. And I just made some

1473
01:18:08,240 --> 01:18:12,800
Speaker 2: tapes in my apartment and then this guitar player called me.

1474
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:14,600
Speaker 2: He said, hey, hear. I knew him high school. He's like,

1475
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 2: I here, You're looking for a guitar player. And I

1476
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:17,720
Speaker 2: just thought, yeah, there's no way. This guy he was,

1477
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:21,040
Speaker 2: you know, he's he's he's from Panol and you know,

1478
01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:23,640
Speaker 2: I'm a birdy guy now, and he's more conservative and

1479
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:27,439
Speaker 2: he plays like Tony Iomi and and you know, I

1480
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:30,920
Speaker 2: want someone who's like Adrian Blue or or Robert Fripp.

1481
01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:33,439
Speaker 2: And he came and played for me, played with me,

1482
01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:35,680
Speaker 2: and he's he's a freak. He's still a freak to

1483
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:37,760
Speaker 2: this day. He has we call it Todd time. He

1484
01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:42,040
Speaker 2: has the craziest sense of time and melody. And that

1485
01:18:42,160 --> 01:18:45,680
Speaker 2: became the early Primate. It was Primate, and we made

1486
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:49,120
Speaker 2: a recording and we got we're getting airplay on a

1487
01:18:49,160 --> 01:18:54,439
Speaker 2: local radio station called the Quake. And then I find.

1488
01:18:54,479 --> 01:18:56,720
Speaker 2: I get this phone call one day on my answering machine. Again,

1489
01:18:57,880 --> 01:19:01,040
Speaker 2: hey Les or whoever to whom it may concern, or

1490
01:19:01,080 --> 01:19:03,599
Speaker 2: whatever it was. I my name is such and such.

1491
01:19:03,640 --> 01:19:07,200
Speaker 2: I represent a band called the Primates, and you must

1492
01:19:07,240 --> 01:19:09,920
Speaker 2: cease and desist because we own that name. So we

1493
01:19:09,960 --> 01:19:12,479
Speaker 2: had to change our name, and subsequently we changed it

1494
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:16,160
Speaker 2: to Primus. Years later, this is like maybe three or

1495
01:19:16,160 --> 01:19:19,160
Speaker 2: four years ago, I meet this guy and he's like,

1496
01:19:19,160 --> 01:19:21,040
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember me, but I'm such

1497
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:23,200
Speaker 2: and Such. I was in a band called the Primates.

1498
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:26,040
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, your attorney called me and said

1499
01:19:26,120 --> 01:19:29,200
Speaker 2: cease and desist. And he's like, yeah, that was me.

1500
01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:30,200
Speaker 2: I was just bullshit and.

1501
01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:37,160
Speaker 1: I was like, so, so you make this independent record.

1502
01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:41,200
Speaker 2: Continue the narrative, Well, we had made a bunch of

1503
01:19:41,240 --> 01:19:43,760
Speaker 2: we made demo tapes for years before, you know, nothing

1504
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:46,120
Speaker 2: was happening. We were playing. Nobody knew what to do

1505
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:50,519
Speaker 2: with us. Michael Bailey, who booked the the Berkeley Square,

1506
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:53,080
Speaker 2: was really the first guy that kind of went, wow,

1507
01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:54,960
Speaker 2: you guys have something going. I'm going to just book you.

1508
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:56,960
Speaker 2: And he would book us with you know, we played

1509
01:19:57,000 --> 01:19:59,680
Speaker 2: with the Swans, we played with the Papo, Pies, but

1510
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:02,800
Speaker 2: we never really fit in with anybody, you know, And

1511
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:07,240
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, along came, you know, Fishbone

1512
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:09,360
Speaker 2: and the Chili Peppers and Faith No More and bands

1513
01:20:09,439 --> 01:20:11,240
Speaker 2: like that, and all of a sudden there was bands

1514
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:13,600
Speaker 2: that we could play with, we could open for, and

1515
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:16,600
Speaker 2: and then the whole scene kind of started in the

1516
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:22,240
Speaker 2: Bay Area with Limbo Maniacs and Csycopunk Pus and and

1517
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:26,400
Speaker 2: Fungo Mungo, these these bands that we kind of had

1518
01:20:26,400 --> 01:20:30,479
Speaker 2: a scene in Mister Bungle, of course, and it just

1519
01:20:30,600 --> 01:20:33,040
Speaker 2: kind of it kind of blossomed from there.

1520
01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:45,080
Speaker 1: Okay, but you're still working your day job, you're playing

1521
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:50,320
Speaker 1: some live gigs, you're making tapes in the uh bedroom.

1522
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:54,439
Speaker 1: What do you expect to happen? And how active are

1523
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:57,360
Speaker 1: you trying to make that happen? Well?

1524
01:20:58,400 --> 01:21:01,120
Speaker 2: I was very active as far as you know. We'd

1525
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:03,080
Speaker 2: rehearse three or four days a week, and we'd go

1526
01:21:03,200 --> 01:21:06,000
Speaker 2: do our gigs, and you know, one day you'd play

1527
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:08,599
Speaker 2: for ten people, next day you play for twenty people,

1528
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:10,400
Speaker 2: and hopefully the next day it's forty people. But then

1529
01:21:10,439 --> 01:21:12,200
Speaker 2: there's you get a little lull period and then you know,

1530
01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:17,479
Speaker 2: we're slowly building this thing. But back then, it wasn't

1531
01:21:17,600 --> 01:21:19,799
Speaker 2: like now where you could record an album on your laptop,

1532
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:23,560
Speaker 2: you know. I made that little demo of in the

1533
01:21:23,640 --> 01:21:25,479
Speaker 2: early days on a FASTEC But after that we would

1534
01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:28,280
Speaker 2: go into studios. So basically, me and Todd would save

1535
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:31,120
Speaker 2: up every year, we'd save up one thousand dollars and

1536
01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:34,040
Speaker 2: we'd book because you could get a real studio for

1537
01:21:34,120 --> 01:21:37,479
Speaker 2: one thousand dollars a day. So we would book a

1538
01:21:37,560 --> 01:21:40,760
Speaker 2: studio for one day, twenty four hours, and we would

1539
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:43,400
Speaker 2: start and we'd spend the entire twenty four hours. We'd

1540
01:21:43,479 --> 01:21:46,679
Speaker 2: record like three or four songs and record and mix

1541
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:48,639
Speaker 2: it all in that twenty four hour period, which I'm

1542
01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:51,920
Speaker 2: sure just killed the engineers, you know, They'm sure they

1543
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:54,920
Speaker 2: hated it. But we would do that once a year,

1544
01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:56,840
Speaker 2: so it took you know, it took a handful of

1545
01:21:56,960 --> 01:22:00,639
Speaker 2: years before any of these demo tapes caught on because

1546
01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:03,080
Speaker 2: back then there was a there was a whole trading

1547
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:04,760
Speaker 2: of the demo tapes, and it was kind of big

1548
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:06,479
Speaker 2: in the metal world. But I wasn't. We weren't really

1549
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:08,760
Speaker 2: in the metal world at that point. We were we

1550
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:13,960
Speaker 2: were we were in our own zone. But eventually we

1551
01:22:14,040 --> 01:22:16,200
Speaker 2: made a demo tape that got that caught on and

1552
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:18,960
Speaker 2: people were buying it, and it was the Sausage Demo,

1553
01:22:19,880 --> 01:22:23,640
Speaker 2: which is actually to this day is pretty coveted on

1554
01:22:23,720 --> 01:22:26,719
Speaker 2: the internet if you can find it. And then eventually

1555
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:29,400
Speaker 2: we recorded the suck On this record by borrowing some

1556
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:32,559
Speaker 2: money from my father. He loaned us three thousand dollars

1557
01:22:32,600 --> 01:22:34,200
Speaker 2: so we could print up a thousand records.

1558
01:22:36,280 --> 01:22:41,479
Speaker 1: Okay, you're how old and how many years since the

1559
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:42,400
Speaker 1: thing begins?

1560
01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:47,200
Speaker 2: So suck On this came out and I can't for

1561
01:22:47,240 --> 01:22:49,320
Speaker 2: it's eighty eight or eighty nine. And I had started

1562
01:22:49,360 --> 01:22:52,679
Speaker 2: the band in eighty four. Todd had left the band

1563
01:22:52,720 --> 01:22:57,519
Speaker 2: because he had a couple kids and we had our

1564
01:22:57,560 --> 01:23:01,320
Speaker 2: drummer was in a different band, so he was we're

1565
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:04,519
Speaker 2: not focused. So I knew Larry Laan from playing with

1566
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:07,080
Speaker 2: this other band, and I said, hey, just come join

1567
01:23:07,160 --> 01:23:09,040
Speaker 2: the band, because he was my buddy more than anything.

1568
01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:13,439
Speaker 2: And and then we auditioned this guy, Tim Alexander, who

1569
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:18,439
Speaker 2: you know. He became the guy and we made that record.

1570
01:23:18,479 --> 01:23:20,439
Speaker 2: They hadn't been in the band, they hadn't been in

1571
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:22,360
Speaker 2: the band more than a couple of months, and we

1572
01:23:22,479 --> 01:23:25,479
Speaker 2: made that record, and Primus was actually pretty popular we

1573
01:23:25,560 --> 01:23:27,920
Speaker 2: were selling out local clubs. So I was scared to

1574
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:29,760
Speaker 2: death because all of a sudden, both my guys were

1575
01:23:29,800 --> 01:23:31,519
Speaker 2: gone and I was starting with two new guys. And

1576
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:35,040
Speaker 2: I was just very fortunate that because, as you know,

1577
01:23:35,880 --> 01:23:39,560
Speaker 2: chemistry is you can't beat chemistry, and you lose it,

1578
01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:44,200
Speaker 2: you replace an artist, and oftentimes it throws that chemistry

1579
01:23:44,200 --> 01:23:46,880
Speaker 2: out of whack more often than not. But I got

1580
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:49,760
Speaker 2: very lucky that the three of us had a really

1581
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:52,040
Speaker 2: good chemistry and it caught on in a way, you know.

1582
01:23:53,360 --> 01:23:55,840
Speaker 2: But Primus has always been a slow burn. There's people go, oh,

1583
01:23:56,080 --> 01:23:59,720
Speaker 2: when did you become famous? It's like, well, may even

1584
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:02,120
Speaker 2: fame yet, you know, We've always been that under the

1585
01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:04,840
Speaker 2: radar guys. You know, I've had friends that have these

1586
01:24:04,880 --> 01:24:06,840
Speaker 2: big peaks, but they also have the deep valleys. We've

1587
01:24:06,840 --> 01:24:08,479
Speaker 2: just kind of always gone, you know.

1588
01:24:09,439 --> 01:24:14,000
Speaker 1: So okay, so you put out the independent album and then.

1589
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:18,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, we recorded it live at the Berkeley Square and

1590
01:24:18,600 --> 01:24:21,479
Speaker 2: we printed up a thousand copies with three thousand dollars

1591
01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:23,320
Speaker 2: of my dad's money, and we just drove around in

1592
01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:25,479
Speaker 2: my car Mageea taking him to record stores and oh,

1593
01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:27,559
Speaker 2: these people took five All these guys took Dan oh

1594
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:30,479
Speaker 2: my god, Ah, and we were selling these things and

1595
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:34,240
Speaker 2: our manager had the foresight to send them around to

1596
01:24:34,240 --> 01:24:36,240
Speaker 2: all the college radio stations around the country and it

1597
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:39,640
Speaker 2: just caught on. So we made enough money from that

1598
01:24:39,800 --> 01:24:42,800
Speaker 2: record to record our second record, which was Frizzle Fry.

1599
01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:45,720
Speaker 2: We recorded that ourselves, and at that time we were

1600
01:24:45,760 --> 01:24:48,840
Speaker 2: Gavin label sniffing around us. Rough Trade had gotten involved

1601
01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:50,840
Speaker 2: with the first record and released some of it, and

1602
01:24:50,920 --> 01:24:54,000
Speaker 2: then on the second record, Caroline took took it over

1603
01:24:54,840 --> 01:24:57,000
Speaker 2: and we did that one record deal with Caroline and

1604
01:24:57,080 --> 01:24:59,479
Speaker 2: they did a fantastic job. Janet Billy over there was

1605
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:06,120
Speaker 2: amazing Keith. I can't remember Keith's last name, but those

1606
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:07,920
Speaker 2: were the early days when we're out there in the

1607
01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:10,240
Speaker 2: motor home driving around the country and just you know,

1608
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:13,400
Speaker 2: it's an amazing, amazing, wonderful time. That time of where

1609
01:25:13,400 --> 01:25:16,679
Speaker 2: you're climbing the hill is such a wonderful, wonderful feeling,

1610
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:16,960
Speaker 2: you know.

1611
01:25:19,240 --> 01:25:21,720
Speaker 1: And then how does that turn into a deal with

1612
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:22,240
Speaker 1: inners Go.

1613
01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:27,040
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny because we were being courted by a

1614
01:25:27,120 --> 01:25:32,880
Speaker 2: few different labels and I had had bad experience with

1615
01:25:33,240 --> 01:25:36,040
Speaker 2: labels and producers in the early days. Just watching what

1616
01:25:36,080 --> 01:25:38,320
Speaker 2: had happened with friends, and I remember I think it

1617
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:40,240
Speaker 2: was someone from PolyGram had gotten a hold of us

1618
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:44,120
Speaker 2: early on, years before even our first record, and oh,

1619
01:25:44,160 --> 01:25:45,720
Speaker 2: I've been hearing a lot about you guys, and blah

1620
01:25:45,720 --> 01:25:48,400
Speaker 2: blah blah. No you ever think of you ever think

1621
01:25:48,439 --> 01:25:50,720
Speaker 2: of like changing your hairstyles? Do you ever think of

1622
01:25:50,840 --> 01:25:53,360
Speaker 2: maybe getting a lead singer? You know, stuff like that.

1623
01:25:53,479 --> 01:25:55,560
Speaker 2: And it was like, well, no, that's not what we

1624
01:25:55,680 --> 01:25:58,040
Speaker 2: want to do. So I was always a little leary,

1625
01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:02,240
Speaker 2: and so we were being courted by a couple different labels.

1626
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:05,960
Speaker 2: I don't remember who, but we did a show at

1627
01:26:06,200 --> 01:26:10,600
Speaker 2: The Stone in San Francisco and this guy came backstage afterwards,

1628
01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:12,719
Speaker 2: and he had gone there to see the opening band,

1629
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:15,599
Speaker 2: who were also friends of ours, not even knowing anything

1630
01:26:15,640 --> 01:26:18,240
Speaker 2: about us, but saw how the crowd, because our crowds

1631
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:21,360
Speaker 2: would go nuts, saw how the crowd reacted. He came

1632
01:26:21,360 --> 01:26:24,800
Speaker 2: backstage he said, Hey, my name's Tom Wally. I'm with

1633
01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:27,240
Speaker 2: this new label called Innerscope, and I want to sign

1634
01:26:27,280 --> 01:26:31,360
Speaker 2: you guys right now. And my manager's like, well, you

1635
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:33,519
Speaker 2: know we talking. Was super nice guy and a very

1636
01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:36,400
Speaker 2: charming guy, and my manager was like, well, you know,

1637
01:26:36,479 --> 01:26:38,240
Speaker 2: we really should look at this other deal because it's

1638
01:26:38,240 --> 01:26:40,280
Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. And I was like, I like

1639
01:26:40,400 --> 01:26:42,400
Speaker 2: this guy. This guy wants to say. He had no

1640
01:26:42,520 --> 01:26:44,960
Speaker 2: idea that we'd already sold eighty thousand of our own records.

1641
01:26:45,720 --> 01:26:50,320
Speaker 2: He just saw something he liked and saw how it

1642
01:26:50,479 --> 01:26:54,200
Speaker 2: was resonating with these people, and he wanted it. And

1643
01:26:54,439 --> 01:26:57,200
Speaker 2: at the time, the only release that Interscope had was

1644
01:26:57,240 --> 01:27:01,200
Speaker 2: a fellow by the name of Girardi with Rico Suave.

1645
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:03,600
Speaker 2: So my manager's going, what the hell, how are we

1646
01:27:03,600 --> 01:27:05,200
Speaker 2: going to sign with this label? Oh my god, they

1647
01:27:05,240 --> 01:27:07,200
Speaker 2: have no track record. Blah blahlah blah. We should stign

1648
01:27:07,240 --> 01:27:08,960
Speaker 2: with these other guys. I have a better And I

1649
01:27:09,120 --> 01:27:10,840
Speaker 2: was like, no, I like Tom Wally.

1650
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:13,920
Speaker 1: He gets it. And it was.

1651
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:17,439
Speaker 2: It was one of the best career moves we ever

1652
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:21,040
Speaker 2: made because Tom was always he always let us do

1653
01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:23,040
Speaker 2: whatever we wanted for one thing, which was unheard of

1654
01:27:23,200 --> 01:27:27,840
Speaker 2: back then, and he was just supportive and he's just

1655
01:27:27,880 --> 01:27:29,880
Speaker 2: a great guy. He's a good human, you know. So

1656
01:27:30,439 --> 01:27:31,280
Speaker 2: it worked out for us.

1657
01:27:32,160 --> 01:27:34,120
Speaker 1: Okay, how did you get a manager and how long

1658
01:27:34,200 --> 01:27:35,960
Speaker 1: did that particular manager last?

1659
01:27:36,720 --> 01:27:39,080
Speaker 2: Well, Dave Leftwitz was our first real manage. We had

1660
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:41,840
Speaker 2: a couple guys like friends, my friends that were trying

1661
01:27:41,880 --> 01:27:46,719
Speaker 2: in the early days. But Dave he worked for David

1662
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:51,160
Speaker 2: Rubinson in some capacity and had an office in his space,

1663
01:27:51,640 --> 01:27:53,200
Speaker 2: and he was working with some of There was a

1664
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:55,439
Speaker 2: big scene in the Bay Area called the world beat

1665
01:27:55,640 --> 01:27:58,640
Speaker 2: scene with the Looters in Big City and Mapenze, and

1666
01:27:58,760 --> 01:28:01,920
Speaker 2: I actually rooted for a lot of the bands, and

1667
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:03,640
Speaker 2: he was a part of that scene. And he just

1668
01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:05,479
Speaker 2: kind of started taking over stuff for.

1669
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:08,200
Speaker 1: Us, and he just wait, wait, wait, wait, are you

1670
01:28:08,520 --> 01:28:11,920
Speaker 1: roadying at the same time you're playing with primates, which

1671
01:28:12,040 --> 01:28:13,400
Speaker 1: turns into primus.

1672
01:28:13,720 --> 01:28:20,759
Speaker 2: I'm at times yeah back then sure, the uh. But anyway,

1673
01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:22,560
Speaker 2: Dave was a big part of that scene. And he

1674
01:28:22,760 --> 01:28:24,840
Speaker 2: just started taking over of doing some bookings for us

1675
01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:25,840
Speaker 2: and this and that and the next thing. And he

1676
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:28,560
Speaker 2: had a he's always had a great sense of of

1677
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:31,839
Speaker 2: of marketing. He kept up. He watched all the trades

1678
01:28:31,880 --> 01:28:33,719
Speaker 2: and all the you know, I didn't watch that ship.

1679
01:28:34,479 --> 01:28:41,400
Speaker 2: And he was very instrumental in getting US scene in

1680
01:28:41,479 --> 01:28:43,599
Speaker 2: places where it was kind of cool to be seen.

1681
01:28:43,960 --> 01:28:48,000
Speaker 1: That makes sense. And then how long did he last?

1682
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:51,400
Speaker 2: He was with us for a long time. He was

1683
01:28:51,479 --> 01:28:56,360
Speaker 2: with us until basically until the mid two thousands.

1684
01:28:56,400 --> 01:29:01,599
Speaker 1: I think, Okay, so you're within scopeters go very quickly

1685
01:29:01,720 --> 01:29:05,920
Speaker 1: turns into a machine. Uh how did that work for

1686
01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:08,000
Speaker 1: you or were you at arm's length? What were your

1687
01:29:08,080 --> 01:29:09,519
Speaker 1: interactions like with Jimmy?

1688
01:29:10,439 --> 01:29:14,080
Speaker 2: It took a long time for Interscope to become a machine.

1689
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:16,439
Speaker 2: Interscope was like a clubhouse in the early days. We

1690
01:29:16,520 --> 01:29:19,080
Speaker 2: knew everybody there. They were all our friends. They'd come

1691
01:29:19,160 --> 01:29:22,880
Speaker 2: on the road with us. It was amazing. Didn't know

1692
01:29:23,040 --> 01:29:26,080
Speaker 2: Jimmy very well. In fact, I always I thought, I

1693
01:29:26,080 --> 01:29:28,320
Speaker 2: always thought Jimmy was amazing, because the thing about Jimmy

1694
01:29:28,479 --> 01:29:31,200
Speaker 2: is he didn't he didn't bullshit you. He I remember

1695
01:29:31,280 --> 01:29:34,200
Speaker 2: him coming into a meeting with us one time and

1696
01:29:34,320 --> 01:29:35,840
Speaker 2: he sat there and he's like, look, I'm going to

1697
01:29:35,880 --> 01:29:38,760
Speaker 2: tell you right now. I don't get Primus. I don't

1698
01:29:38,840 --> 01:29:41,519
Speaker 2: understand Primis. I don't know where one song starts and

1699
01:29:41,560 --> 01:29:44,759
Speaker 2: another one ends. He's like, but you know, Tom Wally

1700
01:29:44,880 --> 01:29:46,599
Speaker 2: gets you, and I get Tom Wally.

1701
01:29:46,960 --> 01:29:47,479
Speaker 1: And that was it.

1702
01:29:48,680 --> 01:29:50,719
Speaker 2: To be honest with you, I really wish I would

1703
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:54,280
Speaker 2: have spent more time like getting to know Jimmy because

1704
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:59,280
Speaker 2: he he he was a very interesting cat. But it wasn't.

1705
01:29:59,360 --> 01:30:03,880
Speaker 2: It was we weren't one of his bands, but he

1706
01:30:04,120 --> 01:30:06,120
Speaker 2: did chime in. He chimed in some cool stuff. It

1707
01:30:06,240 --> 01:30:10,360
Speaker 2: was his idea for that look of the one own

1708
01:30:10,400 --> 01:30:13,840
Speaker 2: as Big Brown Beaver video. He uh, he saw that

1709
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:15,800
Speaker 2: Dura cell commercial. I don't know if you remember that

1710
01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:18,280
Speaker 2: dur cell commercial. He's like, that's Primus. That Primis has

1711
01:30:18,280 --> 01:30:20,400
Speaker 2: got to do something like that. So he said, and

1712
01:30:20,520 --> 01:30:23,160
Speaker 2: I was directing the videos back then. He said, you

1713
01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:24,960
Speaker 2: got to do something like that. And I was thought, well,

1714
01:30:25,000 --> 01:30:26,840
Speaker 2: how can we do this without just ripping off the

1715
01:30:26,920 --> 01:30:29,639
Speaker 2: dura cell thing. So we came up with these toy

1716
01:30:29,720 --> 01:30:33,160
Speaker 2: cowboys and did the one on his Big Brown Beaver video.

1717
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:38,520
Speaker 2: But in Interscope, Interscope was we would have never accomplished,

1718
01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:40,559
Speaker 2: but we accomplished. If it wasn't for Interscope, they were

1719
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:41,880
Speaker 2: spectacular to us.

1720
01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:50,200
Speaker 1: Okay, prior to Interscope signing you and graduating from high school,

1721
01:30:50,800 --> 01:30:51,960
Speaker 1: you ever think of giving up?

1722
01:30:54,120 --> 01:30:58,439
Speaker 2: Yes, I don't know about giving up. I mean, you're

1723
01:30:58,439 --> 01:31:00,760
Speaker 2: a musician because you're compelled to play your instrument. You're

1724
01:31:00,760 --> 01:31:03,200
Speaker 2: a musician, whether you're making five bucks or five hundred

1725
01:31:03,200 --> 01:31:04,800
Speaker 2: bucks a night. You know, it's just that's what you do.

1726
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:09,679
Speaker 2: But there was a time when my dad and everybody

1727
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:11,360
Speaker 2: were kind of like, okay, you know, I was in

1728
01:31:11,479 --> 01:31:15,360
Speaker 2: my I guess I was twenty three or twenty four. Hey,

1729
01:31:15,439 --> 01:31:17,439
Speaker 2: this said, what's good? When are you going to go

1730
01:31:17,439 --> 01:31:19,760
Speaker 2: to school? This music thing? What you know? And I went,

1731
01:31:20,280 --> 01:31:22,400
Speaker 2: I said all right, and I went to went back

1732
01:31:22,439 --> 01:31:27,120
Speaker 2: to school, and I to one semester of culinary school

1733
01:31:28,360 --> 01:31:31,280
Speaker 2: because I thought that's creative, that would be fun. And

1734
01:31:31,520 --> 01:31:34,720
Speaker 2: once I got in there, I realized, well, this is ridiculous.

1735
01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:38,160
Speaker 2: A when you leave culinary school, you start as just

1736
01:31:38,479 --> 01:31:42,240
Speaker 2: a schlepper. You're making minimum wage. I was already making

1737
01:31:42,320 --> 01:31:45,920
Speaker 2: like thirty bucks an hour as a carpenter, and the

1738
01:31:46,320 --> 01:31:49,439
Speaker 2: hours totally conflict with any musician. You're either a dinner

1739
01:31:49,680 --> 01:31:52,120
Speaker 2: you're work in the dinner shift, or you're the breakfast shift.

1740
01:31:52,520 --> 01:31:53,960
Speaker 2: Neither one of those is going to work for me.

1741
01:31:54,160 --> 01:31:54,519
Speaker 3: So I was.

1742
01:31:54,840 --> 01:31:57,840
Speaker 2: I realized early on it wasn't going to that wasn't

1743
01:31:57,880 --> 01:32:00,280
Speaker 2: going to be a good ath.

1744
01:32:02,800 --> 01:32:08,160
Speaker 1: Okay, So you ended up having pretty quickly big success

1745
01:32:08,360 --> 01:32:15,519
Speaker 1: on interscope, So what do you think. I don't know.

1746
01:32:15,600 --> 01:32:18,400
Speaker 2: See, the thing is, I've never thought of primus as

1747
01:32:19,240 --> 01:32:22,439
Speaker 2: we never had big leaps, you know, those things that

1748
01:32:22,880 --> 01:32:27,679
Speaker 2: happened that were interesting that came quickly, like getting on MTV.

1749
01:32:27,800 --> 01:32:29,559
Speaker 2: I remember when we got one hundred and twenty minutes

1750
01:32:29,600 --> 01:32:32,120
Speaker 2: or whatever. I remember even Kirk Hamic going, what the hell,

1751
01:32:32,160 --> 01:32:34,120
Speaker 2: how'd you get on MTV? We're not even on MTV,

1752
01:32:34,240 --> 01:32:39,679
Speaker 2: you know. So those were interesting things, but it's still

1753
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:43,240
Speaker 2: primus is a is an acquired taste. You know, it's

1754
01:32:43,320 --> 01:32:47,200
Speaker 2: not something for everyone. So it's always been this kind

1755
01:32:47,240 --> 01:32:50,800
Speaker 2: of cultish thing to an extent. Even when we had

1756
01:32:50,880 --> 01:32:55,679
Speaker 2: little our toes dabbled slightly into the mainstream, it didn't

1757
01:32:55,760 --> 01:32:56,360
Speaker 2: last long.

1758
01:32:56,520 --> 01:32:56,640
Speaker 3: You know.

1759
01:32:57,080 --> 01:33:03,200
Speaker 2: It was always about this this this, this cultish fan

1760
01:33:03,320 --> 01:33:07,680
Speaker 2: base and somewhat obsessive fan base that's kept. That's that's

1761
01:33:07,920 --> 01:33:10,680
Speaker 2: made it so I could send my kids to college.

1762
01:33:10,400 --> 01:33:15,880
Speaker 1: You know. Okay, so that publishing deal, which if you

1763
01:33:15,960 --> 01:33:18,200
Speaker 1: sold Nexus of one hundred thousand was better for the

1764
01:33:18,240 --> 01:33:22,559
Speaker 1: publishing company at this late date. Do you own those songs?

1765
01:33:23,240 --> 01:33:26,280
Speaker 2: Is that we've never sold our publishing I mean the

1766
01:33:26,640 --> 01:33:32,400
Speaker 2: recordings are you know, those are interscripts, which is now universal, right, okay,

1767
01:33:32,880 --> 01:33:34,720
Speaker 2: But a lot of my stuff is my stuff, like

1768
01:33:34,920 --> 01:33:37,000
Speaker 2: pron Song and all that stuff. I were about to

1769
01:33:37,080 --> 01:33:41,240
Speaker 2: release all the pron song like Frog Brigade and the

1770
01:33:41,320 --> 01:33:43,800
Speaker 2: Claypool stuff. We're about to re release it because it's

1771
01:33:44,080 --> 01:33:44,960
Speaker 2: it all belongs to me.

1772
01:33:46,080 --> 01:33:47,479
Speaker 1: How did it end within her scoop?

1773
01:33:49,200 --> 01:33:52,920
Speaker 2: Uh? And we just kind of amicley just sort of

1774
01:33:53,280 --> 01:33:58,120
Speaker 2: went our separate ways, you know. I remember Steve Berman

1775
01:33:58,200 --> 01:34:01,880
Speaker 2: got winned in the early two thousands that we were

1776
01:34:01,920 --> 01:34:05,519
Speaker 2: getting back together with HERB and he said, Jimmy wants

1777
01:34:05,560 --> 01:34:08,000
Speaker 2: to talk to you. So Jimmy had me up into

1778
01:34:08,080 --> 01:34:11,320
Speaker 2: the up into his office and he said, look, he said,

1779
01:34:11,320 --> 01:34:12,880
Speaker 2: we want to do this. We want to do a

1780
01:34:12,920 --> 01:34:14,960
Speaker 2: project with you. We want to make it, make it right,

1781
01:34:15,080 --> 01:34:17,479
Speaker 2: make it work. We feel like we owe it to Primus.

1782
01:34:17,520 --> 01:34:20,639
Speaker 2: There's a lot of bands that came to Interscope because

1783
01:34:20,680 --> 01:34:23,880
Speaker 2: of Primus. I've talked to quite a few bands that

1784
01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:26,120
Speaker 2: have said, yeah, we signed with Interscope because you guys

1785
01:34:26,160 --> 01:34:28,400
Speaker 2: were on Interscope, because we were known that we got

1786
01:34:28,439 --> 01:34:30,360
Speaker 2: to do what we wanted to do. They they left

1787
01:34:30,439 --> 01:34:32,519
Speaker 2: us alone. As long as it was working, they left

1788
01:34:32,600 --> 01:34:36,400
Speaker 2: us alone. So that's when we did the animals should

1789
01:34:36,439 --> 01:34:38,640
Speaker 2: not try and act like people. It was like a

1790
01:34:38,760 --> 01:34:45,200
Speaker 2: DVD EP thing with Interscope, and you know, it worked

1791
01:34:45,240 --> 01:34:48,439
Speaker 2: out well. But you know, it's saying at that point

1792
01:34:48,560 --> 01:34:52,960
Speaker 2: they're such a big thing, that we're this odd band.

1793
01:34:53,080 --> 01:34:57,160
Speaker 2: I just don't think it did what any normal Primis

1794
01:34:57,200 --> 01:34:59,640
Speaker 2: thing would do. It wasn't going to become a you know,

1795
01:34:59,720 --> 01:35:01,599
Speaker 2: going Steffani hit or anything, you know what I mean.

1796
01:35:01,800 --> 01:35:02,719
Speaker 1: It just it wasn't.

1797
01:35:02,760 --> 01:35:07,519
Speaker 2: It was never in the cards. But I've never had

1798
01:35:07,560 --> 01:35:10,280
Speaker 2: any issues with with Interscope. It's always been They've always

1799
01:35:10,280 --> 01:35:10,760
Speaker 2: been okay.

1800
01:35:10,760 --> 01:35:13,920
Speaker 1: There's always a parting of the ways the contract is

1801
01:35:14,080 --> 01:35:18,960
Speaker 1: up or something, and usually the label says, well, you know,

1802
01:35:19,560 --> 01:35:21,160
Speaker 1: it was nice, but we don't want to make any

1803
01:35:21,200 --> 01:35:21,839
Speaker 1: more records.

1804
01:35:23,400 --> 01:35:25,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't remember, to be honest with I don't

1805
01:35:25,960 --> 01:35:28,599
Speaker 2: even remember that because I was making my own records

1806
01:35:28,680 --> 01:35:31,439
Speaker 2: on pron Song, and to me, that was much more.

1807
01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:35,280
Speaker 2: I liked that because I owned them, you know, and

1808
01:35:35,360 --> 01:35:39,519
Speaker 2: I was just licensing them through different distributors. So it

1809
01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:43,080
Speaker 2: was it was just it was just better for me.

1810
01:35:43,240 --> 01:35:44,880
Speaker 2: And then when Primus came back and we did that

1811
01:35:44,960 --> 01:35:47,559
Speaker 2: one thing with Interscope, it wasn't part of a big deal.

1812
01:35:49,560 --> 01:35:54,840
Speaker 2: But I am a big fan of owning. We've owned

1813
01:35:54,840 --> 01:35:58,840
Speaker 2: our own stuff now since the early two thousands, you know,

1814
01:35:58,880 --> 01:36:01,600
Speaker 2: we released stuff through but it's all licensing, and I

1815
01:36:01,880 --> 01:36:04,439
Speaker 2: think that's that's the way to go. That's a wonderful thing,

1816
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:08,040
Speaker 2: especially now that records are you know, it used to

1817
01:36:08,080 --> 01:36:11,200
Speaker 2: be that was the cupcake. You know, you make a record,

1818
01:36:11,280 --> 01:36:12,880
Speaker 2: that's where you made your money, and you go and

1819
01:36:12,920 --> 01:36:14,559
Speaker 2: do a tour. That was the icing on the cake,

1820
01:36:14,600 --> 01:36:17,640
Speaker 2: and then t shirts was the sprinkles. Well, now the

1821
01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:22,200
Speaker 2: cupcake is the touring and merch is a big part

1822
01:36:22,240 --> 01:36:25,240
Speaker 2: of that cupcake. And albums are like they're like business

1823
01:36:25,280 --> 01:36:29,479
Speaker 2: cards now, you know, they're how many people, especially kids,

1824
01:36:29,640 --> 01:36:33,439
Speaker 2: do you know, that buy records? They might be paying

1825
01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:37,280
Speaker 2: for Spotify, but they're not buying. They might buy some albums,

1826
01:36:37,320 --> 01:36:39,880
Speaker 2: but even albums, it's just a small, small, small, small

1827
01:36:39,960 --> 01:36:42,599
Speaker 2: fraction of what it used to be when you'd release

1828
01:36:42,720 --> 01:36:44,400
Speaker 2: recorded material on a certain format.

1829
01:36:45,200 --> 01:36:48,280
Speaker 1: Okay, at this late date, do you get any recording royalty,

1830
01:36:48,400 --> 01:36:52,599
Speaker 1: strom inter scill Yeah, Okay, so you're not upside down,

1831
01:36:52,680 --> 01:36:55,040
Speaker 1: you're not in the red because usually record companies they

1832
01:36:55,120 --> 01:36:57,519
Speaker 1: cross collaterize all the records, even though you had one

1833
01:36:57,560 --> 01:36:59,400
Speaker 1: successful when you had a stiff and then they don't

1834
01:36:59,439 --> 01:37:00,599
Speaker 1: pay you. Well.

1835
01:37:00,880 --> 01:37:05,560
Speaker 2: But that's another thing about Primus is we always I

1836
01:37:06,200 --> 01:37:09,759
Speaker 2: watched friends of mine go and make their first record,

1837
01:37:09,800 --> 01:37:11,479
Speaker 2: and they signed with some big deal somewhere, and they

1838
01:37:11,520 --> 01:37:13,759
Speaker 2: make their first record, and they spend three hundred thousand

1839
01:37:13,800 --> 01:37:17,240
Speaker 2: dollars making this record, and they pay the producer all

1840
01:37:17,280 --> 01:37:21,360
Speaker 2: this money and they sell like maybe eighty thousand copies. Well,

1841
01:37:22,040 --> 01:37:24,960
Speaker 2: because we didn't spend a shitload of money, eighty thousand

1842
01:37:25,000 --> 01:37:28,639
Speaker 2: copies is profit. That's that's a that's that's a that's

1843
01:37:28,680 --> 01:37:31,960
Speaker 2: a profitable venture. When you spend three hundred thousand dollars

1844
01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:35,400
Speaker 2: on a record plus and you only sell eighty thousand copies,

1845
01:37:36,120 --> 01:37:38,559
Speaker 2: people get in the room and start talking about, well

1846
01:37:38,600 --> 01:37:41,120
Speaker 2: this is you know. The business heads get together and go,

1847
01:37:41,200 --> 01:37:43,439
Speaker 2: this is not This that they make doesn't make good

1848
01:37:43,479 --> 01:37:45,400
Speaker 2: business sense. And away they go, and then they owe

1849
01:37:45,479 --> 01:37:47,479
Speaker 2: the record company all that money. All this time I

1850
01:37:47,720 --> 01:37:52,000
Speaker 2: was I was always very careful about spending record company money,

1851
01:37:52,040 --> 01:37:54,080
Speaker 2: because when all is said and done, it's your money.

1852
01:37:54,240 --> 01:37:57,840
Speaker 2: That's your money you're spending. So we were always very frugal.

1853
01:37:58,040 --> 01:38:00,719
Speaker 2: And when it came time to making videos, we would

1854
01:38:00,760 --> 01:38:02,920
Speaker 2: come up with these all these concepts for videos and

1855
01:38:02,920 --> 01:38:05,719
Speaker 2: I'd say, okay, we want to do this video. Here's

1856
01:38:05,760 --> 01:38:08,759
Speaker 2: the budget. It's going to cost X amount of dollars.

1857
01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:10,840
Speaker 2: And they would say, okay, that's a great idea for

1858
01:38:10,880 --> 01:38:12,640
Speaker 2: a video, but your primus, we're going to give you.

1859
01:38:12,840 --> 01:38:13,600
Speaker 1: Half of X.

1860
01:38:13,920 --> 01:38:15,960
Speaker 2: And I would say, okay, I'm going to take that

1861
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:18,479
Speaker 2: half of X and make the best version of that

1862
01:38:18,960 --> 01:38:20,640
Speaker 2: I can. And I keep telling my son this. As

1863
01:38:20,680 --> 01:38:24,240
Speaker 2: a filmmaker, I'm like, look look at how many popsicle

1864
01:38:24,240 --> 01:38:26,680
Speaker 2: sticks you have on the table and try and make

1865
01:38:26,720 --> 01:38:29,040
Speaker 2: the Golden gate bridge out of it. You know, don't

1866
01:38:30,160 --> 01:38:33,080
Speaker 2: you know, use the resources that are available to you

1867
01:38:33,320 --> 01:38:35,439
Speaker 2: to make the best thing you possibly can. I think

1868
01:38:35,479 --> 01:38:41,639
Speaker 2: it makes you. I think it's it makes you more

1869
01:38:42,560 --> 01:38:45,320
Speaker 2: You have to be more resourceful on a creative level,

1870
01:38:45,439 --> 01:38:48,799
Speaker 2: and oftentimes I think it makes a better product because

1871
01:38:48,880 --> 01:38:51,400
Speaker 2: you have to kind of manipulate things.

1872
01:38:52,120 --> 01:38:56,040
Speaker 1: So, Okay, you talked about the money putting your kids

1873
01:38:56,080 --> 01:38:59,840
Speaker 1: through college, So how's it been financially for you?

1874
01:39:02,040 --> 01:39:05,880
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not complaining, but you know, if I'd

1875
01:39:05,920 --> 01:39:08,760
Speaker 2: got the Metallica gig, I would have I would have

1876
01:39:08,880 --> 01:39:09,599
Speaker 2: a bigger house.

1877
01:39:09,640 --> 01:39:13,400
Speaker 1: They like, well, let's say you stopped working right now,

1878
01:39:13,479 --> 01:39:15,160
Speaker 1: you got enough money to get to the end.

1879
01:39:16,760 --> 01:39:21,120
Speaker 2: Ah. I tell my kids this all the time. I'm like, look,

1880
01:39:23,000 --> 01:39:25,800
Speaker 2: when I go, there's going to be no money, but

1881
01:39:25,920 --> 01:39:27,479
Speaker 2: you're going to have a hell of a yard sale

1882
01:39:28,160 --> 01:39:33,720
Speaker 2: because because I'm not real, I like to spend. When

1883
01:39:33,720 --> 01:39:36,840
Speaker 2: I was a kid, one of my heroes was Evil

1884
01:39:36,880 --> 01:39:43,160
Speaker 2: and Evil and uh, I remember him saying one time,

1885
01:39:43,240 --> 01:39:44,800
Speaker 2: and this was back in the day, he said, you know,

1886
01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:48,560
Speaker 2: I've made two million dollars in my career. And I

1887
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:50,639
Speaker 2: might be paraphrasing. He may have said a different number, body,

1888
01:39:50,640 --> 01:39:52,800
Speaker 2: but you'll get the gist. You're like, I've made two

1889
01:39:52,920 --> 01:39:55,960
Speaker 2: million dollars in my career and I've spent four And

1890
01:39:56,040 --> 01:39:58,240
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, and so.

1891
01:40:00,040 --> 01:40:00,519
Speaker 1: Prended on.

1892
01:40:01,040 --> 01:40:06,680
Speaker 2: I got two tour buses. I mean, I don't buy

1893
01:40:06,760 --> 01:40:08,479
Speaker 2: stupid shit. I mean we have you know, we have

1894
01:40:08,560 --> 01:40:10,560
Speaker 2: our tasting room, we have our you know, we have

1895
01:40:10,720 --> 01:40:14,200
Speaker 2: our house here. We just but you know, I'm in primus.

1896
01:40:14,320 --> 01:40:17,479
Speaker 2: It's like I said, it's it's we make, we make

1897
01:40:17,520 --> 01:40:22,120
Speaker 2: a comfortable living. But it's these records that we don't

1898
01:40:22,160 --> 01:40:23,680
Speaker 2: fly around in jets. Let me put it to you

1899
01:40:23,760 --> 01:40:24,000
Speaker 2: that way.

1900
01:40:24,520 --> 01:40:27,800
Speaker 1: These records that you make and you license, are they

1901
01:40:27,960 --> 01:40:31,000
Speaker 1: break even propositions or red or black?

1902
01:40:31,479 --> 01:40:33,479
Speaker 2: No, they make they make money, but it's you know,

1903
01:40:33,600 --> 01:40:36,400
Speaker 2: it's not like the money that we all used to make.

1904
01:40:36,760 --> 01:40:39,200
Speaker 2: And I think I can I'm speaking for everybody on

1905
01:40:39,320 --> 01:40:42,800
Speaker 2: that right. Remember when selling a million records, it's like, oh, well,

1906
01:40:43,240 --> 01:40:45,439
Speaker 2: these guys sold twelve million. Now you sell one hundred

1907
01:40:45,439 --> 01:40:46,959
Speaker 2: thousand records, that's a big deal.

1908
01:40:47,360 --> 01:40:51,760
Speaker 1: You know. Okay, you talk about the videos. You know,

1909
01:40:52,439 --> 01:40:54,719
Speaker 1: you're a bass player, you're a member of the band.

1910
01:40:55,520 --> 01:40:58,559
Speaker 1: Do you just say, well, let me give a shot

1911
01:40:58,640 --> 01:41:01,600
Speaker 1: at that. You say, wow, I've always wanted to do

1912
01:41:01,800 --> 01:41:03,679
Speaker 1: this same thing with writing a book.

1913
01:41:05,080 --> 01:41:08,479
Speaker 2: Now I say this quite often too, is my heroes.

1914
01:41:08,520 --> 01:41:12,200
Speaker 2: People expect me to who are your heroes? They expect

1915
01:41:12,240 --> 01:41:15,519
Speaker 2: me to say, and I do say, guys like Geddy

1916
01:41:15,560 --> 01:41:19,960
Speaker 2: Lee and whatnot. But my superheroes are guys like you know,

1917
01:41:20,360 --> 01:41:24,280
Speaker 2: Frank Capra and Leah Kazan and Stanley Kubrick and the

1918
01:41:24,400 --> 01:41:28,640
Speaker 2: Cohen brothers and Terry Gilliam. These are people. These are

1919
01:41:28,680 --> 01:41:32,120
Speaker 2: the guys that really have shaped me as far as

1920
01:41:32,120 --> 01:41:34,519
Speaker 2: a creative person. So when it when the notion of

1921
01:41:34,600 --> 01:41:37,720
Speaker 2: making videos came along, I was I was ready to go.

1922
01:41:37,960 --> 01:41:40,880
Speaker 2: I was diving in. And even the same with my novel.

1923
01:41:40,920 --> 01:41:43,040
Speaker 2: It's I wrote the novel because I had written it

1924
01:41:43,080 --> 01:41:45,120
Speaker 2: as a screenplay, and we tried to make it into

1925
01:41:45,160 --> 01:41:47,720
Speaker 2: a film over and over and over again, and I

1926
01:41:47,840 --> 01:41:50,200
Speaker 2: finally just got to the point where, you know, the

1927
01:41:50,280 --> 01:41:53,000
Speaker 2: thing about filmmaking is it's much more of a collaborative process,

1928
01:41:53,240 --> 01:41:55,600
Speaker 2: especially when people start throwing money in there, They're going

1929
01:41:55,680 --> 01:41:57,320
Speaker 2: to have an opinion and you got to change stuff

1930
01:41:57,320 --> 01:42:01,760
Speaker 2: around and more compromising going on. So we had had

1931
01:42:01,840 --> 01:42:04,000
Speaker 2: so many people come on and off of this project

1932
01:42:04,600 --> 01:42:07,760
Speaker 2: that I was changing things continuously, and I finally I

1933
01:42:07,840 --> 01:42:09,560
Speaker 2: was like, look, screw this, I'm going to write this

1934
01:42:09,920 --> 01:42:13,160
Speaker 2: script into novel form, because then at least the story

1935
01:42:13,240 --> 01:42:16,439
Speaker 2: that I originally wanted to tell exists somewhere before it

1936
01:42:16,520 --> 01:42:20,639
Speaker 2: gets convoluted by a bunch of opinions of people with money.

1937
01:42:20,880 --> 01:42:23,840
Speaker 2: Not that those are bad opinions, but it does change

1938
01:42:24,200 --> 01:42:28,080
Speaker 2: the original narrative, I think. So I wrote the novel,

1939
01:42:28,680 --> 01:42:29,760
Speaker 2: so that's how I fell into that.

1940
01:42:30,320 --> 01:42:32,759
Speaker 1: So if you wrote a novel, do you read novels?

1941
01:42:34,200 --> 01:42:39,560
Speaker 2: Occasionally? I go through periods of reading a lot and

1942
01:42:39,640 --> 01:42:42,120
Speaker 2: then periods of reading nothing. I tend to read a

1943
01:42:42,160 --> 01:42:48,120
Speaker 2: lot of books about where to either place the microphone

1944
01:42:48,560 --> 01:42:54,120
Speaker 2: or how the Jake break System works on a eight

1945
01:42:54,240 --> 01:42:58,080
Speaker 2: V ninety two Detroit Diesel or now that I just recently,

1946
01:42:58,640 --> 01:43:01,920
Speaker 2: literally within the last month, finally got my pilot's license.

1947
01:43:02,280 --> 01:43:04,839
Speaker 2: I'm reading a lot about aviation.

1948
01:43:06,840 --> 01:43:11,479
Speaker 1: Okay, you mentioned you know all these film directors, So

1949
01:43:11,720 --> 01:43:15,000
Speaker 1: film directors and narrative those are your heroes more than

1950
01:43:15,120 --> 01:43:17,960
Speaker 1: musicians in a lot of ways.

1951
01:43:18,720 --> 01:43:21,880
Speaker 2: I definitely watch more film than I listened to music.

1952
01:43:22,920 --> 01:43:25,759
Speaker 1: So right now, are you watching contemporary film?

1953
01:43:26,640 --> 01:43:28,920
Speaker 2: Watched The Wail the other night. I thought it was spectacular.

1954
01:43:29,160 --> 01:43:33,519
Speaker 2: I was really blown away by that film about But

1955
01:43:33,640 --> 01:43:37,400
Speaker 2: I tend to you know, I tend to be the

1956
01:43:37,439 --> 01:43:39,280
Speaker 2: guy that has TCM on all the time.

1957
01:43:42,520 --> 01:43:45,440
Speaker 1: Okay, how about watching streaming television?

1958
01:43:46,120 --> 01:43:48,840
Speaker 2: Some of it I find some of it just takes

1959
01:43:48,880 --> 01:43:52,040
Speaker 2: over my life too much, so I avoid it until

1960
01:43:52,120 --> 01:43:54,840
Speaker 2: it's highly, highly highly recommended to me.

1961
01:43:56,439 --> 01:43:57,880
Speaker 1: Okay, what's your favorite movie?

1962
01:43:59,120 --> 01:43:59,960
Speaker 2: Doctor Strangelove?

1963
01:44:01,400 --> 01:44:03,559
Speaker 1: And if you had to mention two movies that people

1964
01:44:03,600 --> 01:44:05,400
Speaker 1: are unaware of that they should see.

1965
01:44:07,720 --> 01:44:09,519
Speaker 2: Well, if they haven't seen Doctor Strange Love, they said

1966
01:44:09,520 --> 01:44:11,519
Speaker 2: to see Doctor Strange Love and Facing the Crowd.

1967
01:44:12,680 --> 01:44:15,679
Speaker 1: Okay, so at this late date, you've got this whole

1968
01:44:15,880 --> 01:44:19,479
Speaker 1: career to people like me, you were in your own sphere.

1969
01:44:19,600 --> 01:44:24,760
Speaker 1: There's less Claypool. There's nobody quite like you now, and

1970
01:44:24,880 --> 01:44:27,800
Speaker 1: you're doing a lot of collaborative stuff to what the

1971
01:44:27,920 --> 01:44:32,719
Speaker 1: greed is your you know, inbox ding or your phone

1972
01:44:32,840 --> 01:44:35,280
Speaker 1: ring with people saying hey, less I want you to

1973
01:44:35,360 --> 01:44:36,680
Speaker 1: come work on my thing.

1974
01:44:38,760 --> 01:44:44,640
Speaker 2: I mean, it happens fairly regularly, and I have a

1975
01:44:44,720 --> 01:44:47,960
Speaker 2: hard time. I have a pretty full dance card.

1976
01:44:49,320 --> 01:44:49,920
Speaker 1: Or you know.

1977
01:44:50,040 --> 01:44:53,639
Speaker 2: I use the metaphor of pots on the stove. There's

1978
01:44:53,680 --> 01:44:56,200
Speaker 2: a lot of pots on my stove. It just depends

1979
01:44:56,240 --> 01:44:58,839
Speaker 2: on which when I pulled to the front burner. I mean, currently,

1980
01:44:58,880 --> 01:45:02,280
Speaker 2: I'm in the middle of two records, one me and

1981
01:45:02,479 --> 01:45:04,719
Speaker 2: Me and Sean Lennon are working on another Delirium record

1982
01:45:04,800 --> 01:45:06,640
Speaker 2: right now, and then Billy Strings and I started a

1983
01:45:06,720 --> 01:45:11,600
Speaker 2: record a couple months back. A few months back. Actually, so.

1984
01:45:14,160 --> 01:45:17,120
Speaker 1: Okay, how did you meet Sean Lennon and ended up

1985
01:45:17,160 --> 01:45:18,200
Speaker 1: making a record with him?

1986
01:45:18,800 --> 01:45:22,360
Speaker 2: Well, Sean Shawn's band, Ghost of a Saber Tooth Tiger,

1987
01:45:22,560 --> 01:45:29,680
Speaker 2: opened for Primus on a tour, and funny thing was

1988
01:45:29,760 --> 01:45:31,519
Speaker 2: him and my son really hit it off right off

1989
01:45:31,560 --> 01:45:33,360
Speaker 2: the back because they're both like these kind of poin

1990
01:45:33,439 --> 01:45:36,080
Speaker 2: Dexter science nerds, and they were just like yammering away

1991
01:45:36,120 --> 01:45:42,800
Speaker 2: about the cosmos and physics. But but we all kind

1992
01:45:42,840 --> 01:45:45,880
Speaker 2: of hit it off. And Charlotte his his his, his,

1993
01:45:46,400 --> 01:45:49,360
Speaker 2: his partner, we all we just all hit it off.

1994
01:45:49,720 --> 01:45:51,559
Speaker 2: So one day him and I just kind of started jamming.

1995
01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:53,880
Speaker 2: I always keep my doughbro bass around. We just started

1996
01:45:53,960 --> 01:45:55,680
Speaker 2: jamming on acoustic guitars and we ended up in the

1997
01:45:55,680 --> 01:45:57,840
Speaker 2: back of the bus just just jamming, and there was

1998
01:45:57,880 --> 01:46:04,280
Speaker 2: some really interesting things coming out, and so I just said, hey,

1999
01:46:04,320 --> 01:46:06,040
Speaker 2: why don't you come on out to Rancho. Let's let's

2000
01:46:06,160 --> 01:46:08,680
Speaker 2: let's record some stuff. It seems like we got it

2001
01:46:08,760 --> 01:46:11,160
Speaker 2: was it was just this, there was some interest, There

2002
01:46:11,240 --> 01:46:15,560
Speaker 2: was instant chemistry, and he wasn't playing things that I

2003
01:46:16,040 --> 01:46:19,280
Speaker 2: that I was expecting he was. He's pretty angular and

2004
01:46:21,400 --> 01:46:26,920
Speaker 2: has an interesting approach to to his instrument And we

2005
01:46:27,040 --> 01:46:30,840
Speaker 2: got together and recorded our first album, which became the Delirium.

2006
01:46:31,880 --> 01:46:39,960
Speaker 2: Uh Claypool lenin Delirium Monolithophobos and what about Billy Strings, Well,

2007
01:46:40,040 --> 01:46:45,120
Speaker 2: so Billy is an interesting It's interesting because we as Delirium,

2008
01:46:45,439 --> 01:46:48,880
Speaker 2: me and Sean, we were playing a festival up in

2009
01:46:51,439 --> 01:46:54,240
Speaker 2: I think it was up in Tahoe, a few years back,

2010
01:46:54,680 --> 01:46:56,240
Speaker 2: and my wife comes to me and says, hey, look

2011
01:46:56,240 --> 01:46:58,599
Speaker 2: at this set list. And it was the set list,

2012
01:46:59,240 --> 01:47:02,880
Speaker 2: and the first song of the setlist started with L.

2013
01:47:03,240 --> 01:47:05,720
Speaker 2: The second song of the setlist started with E, third

2014
01:47:05,800 --> 01:47:08,040
Speaker 2: song started with S, fourth song started with CE. It

2015
01:47:08,080 --> 01:47:11,280
Speaker 2: spelled out my name in the first letters of each song,

2016
01:47:11,720 --> 01:47:13,640
Speaker 2: and I was like, who the hell is this? It

2017
01:47:13,760 --> 01:47:16,639
Speaker 2: was Billy Strings, So I had met Billy and his band.

2018
01:47:16,880 --> 01:47:19,400
Speaker 2: I didn't really remember it at the time, but then

2019
01:47:19,479 --> 01:47:22,759
Speaker 2: he's kept kind of sending me stuff on my Instagram,

2020
01:47:22,840 --> 01:47:25,280
Speaker 2: commenting mainly on fishing pictures because he's a big fisherman,

2021
01:47:26,240 --> 01:47:27,880
Speaker 2: and we just kind of hit it off and we went,

2022
01:47:28,439 --> 01:47:30,800
Speaker 2: we went, we went fishing, and we started just kind

2023
01:47:30,800 --> 01:47:33,320
Speaker 2: of jamming together, and we thought, let's record some stuff

2024
01:47:33,320 --> 01:47:36,120
Speaker 2: and see what happens. So we've been making a record

2025
01:47:36,160 --> 01:47:38,599
Speaker 2: and the notion is that it's all songs about fishing.

2026
01:47:40,200 --> 01:47:42,680
Speaker 1: Okay. Is it kind of a unique project, like, I mean,

2027
01:47:42,720 --> 01:47:47,840
Speaker 1: he's on quite an ascension, or is it like, well,

2028
01:47:47,920 --> 01:47:50,320
Speaker 1: this would be the next step to reach more people,

2029
01:47:50,520 --> 01:47:52,400
Speaker 1: or is it like, well, this sounds interesting.

2030
01:47:53,280 --> 01:47:55,439
Speaker 2: This is just a couple guys that like to fish

2031
01:47:56,240 --> 01:47:58,479
Speaker 2: getting together and twanging away you know, we were just

2032
01:47:58,920 --> 01:48:06,680
Speaker 2: it's very, very actual and it I have a thing

2033
01:48:06,720 --> 01:48:08,600
Speaker 2: called the Duo de Twang, which is myself and an

2034
01:48:08,640 --> 01:48:12,000
Speaker 2: old buddy of mine from high school, where we basically

2035
01:48:12,120 --> 01:48:14,920
Speaker 2: do these kind of twang versions of Primus songs and

2036
01:48:14,960 --> 01:48:18,360
Speaker 2: some of my songs and other people's songs. And I

2037
01:48:18,439 --> 01:48:20,599
Speaker 2: call it my vacation band because we sit on stage

2038
01:48:20,640 --> 01:48:23,360
Speaker 2: and I stomp on this box for a drummer, kind

2039
01:48:23,360 --> 01:48:25,559
Speaker 2: of like stomping Tom Connors, because I'm a big stomping

2040
01:48:25,600 --> 01:48:30,479
Speaker 2: Tom Connor fan, and we just drink and tell jokes

2041
01:48:30,520 --> 01:48:32,400
Speaker 2: and play these songs in bars.

2042
01:48:32,560 --> 01:48:33,080
Speaker 1: It was fun.

2043
01:48:33,680 --> 01:48:35,280
Speaker 2: So I just thought, oh, this would be an extension

2044
01:48:35,320 --> 01:48:38,760
Speaker 2: of that with Billy. There's not a lot of there's

2045
01:48:39,000 --> 01:48:41,720
Speaker 2: not a lot of preconceived notion to it, except for, hey,

2046
01:48:41,800 --> 01:48:45,280
Speaker 2: let's write songs about fishing because we're both into fishing.

2047
01:48:46,720 --> 01:48:50,680
Speaker 1: Okay, you talked about the cupcake and how big a

2048
01:48:50,760 --> 01:48:53,040
Speaker 1: part of the cupcake is now touring. Do you like

2049
01:48:53,200 --> 01:48:54,040
Speaker 1: going on the road.

2050
01:48:55,840 --> 01:48:58,160
Speaker 2: I do, but it's like anything else. If you're on

2051
01:48:58,240 --> 01:48:59,840
Speaker 2: the road for a long time, you're dying to get home.

2052
01:49:00,320 --> 01:49:04,840
Speaker 2: But my wife said years ago, because she was like

2053
01:49:04,960 --> 01:49:08,080
Speaker 2: super mom, she was class mom. For like eight years

2054
01:49:08,120 --> 01:49:10,559
Speaker 2: in a row or something. Her whole world was the kids,

2055
01:49:11,840 --> 01:49:13,800
Speaker 2: and she said, hey, when the kids move out, I'm

2056
01:49:13,840 --> 01:49:15,280
Speaker 2: just letting you know right now, I'm coming on the

2057
01:49:15,320 --> 01:49:16,720
Speaker 2: road with you. And I said, okay, And that's when

2058
01:49:16,760 --> 01:49:19,600
Speaker 2: we bought our first tour bus, and I drive the

2059
01:49:19,640 --> 01:49:21,960
Speaker 2: tour bus. I have a driver for after shows, but

2060
01:49:22,080 --> 01:49:23,680
Speaker 2: on days off, we take the tour bus and we

2061
01:49:23,760 --> 01:49:26,760
Speaker 2: go stay in campgrounds and whatnot, and so it's it's

2062
01:49:26,840 --> 01:49:30,240
Speaker 2: really fun for us. We're like this couple that cruises

2063
01:49:30,280 --> 01:49:32,320
Speaker 2: around and we go do shows and then on days

2064
01:49:32,360 --> 01:49:35,360
Speaker 2: off we go stay in campgrounds and I have all

2065
01:49:35,400 --> 01:49:37,479
Speaker 2: my fishing gear with me and a bicycle, and we

2066
01:49:37,600 --> 01:49:41,720
Speaker 2: were just it's fun for us to cruise around the

2067
01:49:41,720 --> 01:49:44,000
Speaker 2: country together, well around the world now because she goes

2068
01:49:44,040 --> 01:49:44,600
Speaker 2: everywhere with me.

2069
01:49:45,240 --> 01:49:47,840
Speaker 1: Okay, So how many days a year do you attend

2070
01:49:47,880 --> 01:49:52,360
Speaker 1: to play? I know we had COVID, but generally, I.

2071
01:49:52,400 --> 01:49:56,160
Speaker 2: Mean I'm doing I'm doing about three months solid. This,

2072
01:49:56,400 --> 01:49:58,240
Speaker 2: I'm doing two months, and then I've then a couple

2073
01:49:58,320 --> 01:50:00,280
Speaker 2: months off and then a month, so about three months

2074
01:50:00,320 --> 01:50:01,760
Speaker 2: this year, summer and fall.

2075
01:50:02,479 --> 01:50:04,280
Speaker 1: So where have you been in the bus that the

2076
01:50:04,320 --> 01:50:06,519
Speaker 1: average person hasn't been and you say, wow, you got

2077
01:50:06,640 --> 01:50:07,040
Speaker 1: to go there.

2078
01:50:09,520 --> 01:50:14,800
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if it's any different than

2079
01:50:14,840 --> 01:50:18,400
Speaker 2: where a lot of other musicians go. But that was

2080
01:50:18,520 --> 01:50:21,479
Speaker 2: one thing that I missed. Is in the early days

2081
01:50:21,479 --> 01:50:23,080
Speaker 2: when we had the motor home, which we called the

2082
01:50:23,200 --> 01:50:27,640
Speaker 2: Odor Home, we would drive it. We'd drive from here

2083
01:50:27,720 --> 01:50:30,960
Speaker 2: to there and go to the gig. And then next

2084
01:50:31,040 --> 01:50:33,080
Speaker 2: day you're driving across country, and I saw the country.

2085
01:50:33,439 --> 01:50:37,400
Speaker 2: And then I spent decades doing my show, getting in

2086
01:50:37,479 --> 01:50:40,200
Speaker 2: the back of the bus, watching a movie, drinking or

2087
01:50:40,200 --> 01:50:42,600
Speaker 2: smoking or whatever the hell, falling asleep, waking up at

2088
01:50:42,640 --> 01:50:45,160
Speaker 2: five in the morning, shambling out, getting into my hotel,

2089
01:50:45,640 --> 01:50:47,880
Speaker 2: sleeping and getting up and going, Hey, anybody know where

2090
01:50:47,880 --> 01:50:49,840
Speaker 2: the Starbucks is? Oh, anybody want to get lunch? Oo?

2091
01:50:49,840 --> 01:50:52,240
Speaker 2: And then you get back, get in a car and

2092
01:50:52,320 --> 01:50:54,120
Speaker 2: go to the gig, do the show, get back in

2093
01:50:54,200 --> 01:50:56,040
Speaker 2: the bus. You don't see anything. You see the inside

2094
01:50:56,040 --> 01:50:57,320
Speaker 2: of the bus, and you see a hotel room, and

2095
01:50:57,320 --> 01:51:02,439
Speaker 2: you see lots of coffee shops, Starbucks. So now that

2096
01:51:02,520 --> 01:51:04,519
Speaker 2: we have our own bus and I'm driving it a lot,

2097
01:51:04,600 --> 01:51:08,040
Speaker 2: I'm seeing the country. We're both seeing amazing things in

2098
01:51:08,120 --> 01:51:11,920
Speaker 2: the country. This last tour last year, my driver got

2099
01:51:11,960 --> 01:51:15,160
Speaker 2: COVID and I had to do all the driving all

2100
01:51:15,280 --> 01:51:19,120
Speaker 2: through Canada and it was spectacular. It was unbelievable. It

2101
01:51:19,200 --> 01:51:21,559
Speaker 2: was a little stressful because I we'd do the show

2102
01:51:21,600 --> 01:51:23,240
Speaker 2: and I'd have to hop in the bus and drive

2103
01:51:23,280 --> 01:51:24,680
Speaker 2: as far as I could, and then we'd pull over

2104
01:51:24,760 --> 01:51:26,160
Speaker 2: and sleep and then get up and drive the rest

2105
01:51:26,160 --> 01:51:29,479
Speaker 2: of the way to the gig. But like driving from

2106
01:51:29,640 --> 01:51:32,960
Speaker 2: I think it was well driving through the Canadian Rockies

2107
01:51:33,240 --> 01:51:36,240
Speaker 2: into Vancouver that just this one day, we saw like

2108
01:51:36,360 --> 01:51:40,639
Speaker 2: six caribou, We saw a bear, we saw a couple moose.

2109
01:51:41,479 --> 01:51:43,760
Speaker 2: My wife saw beaver hanging out on this big old

2110
01:51:43,920 --> 01:51:47,000
Speaker 2: damn it was. It was spectacular. It's unbelievable.

2111
01:51:47,400 --> 01:51:50,240
Speaker 1: How hard is it to drive a bus? It's not hard.

2112
01:51:50,520 --> 01:51:50,960
Speaker 2: I love it.

2113
01:51:51,040 --> 01:51:51,479
Speaker 1: I enjoy it.

2114
01:51:51,560 --> 01:51:55,639
Speaker 2: I have my Class B license now, so I'm able

2115
01:51:55,720 --> 01:51:59,639
Speaker 2: to drive this thing. But it's not terribly hard. It's

2116
01:51:59,720 --> 01:52:01,080
Speaker 2: like to anything else.

2117
01:52:01,240 --> 01:52:04,680
Speaker 1: Just get used to it. And then what's up with

2118
01:52:04,800 --> 01:52:07,120
Speaker 1: the whole pilot's license thing? And do you plan to

2119
01:52:07,120 --> 01:52:07,719
Speaker 1: get a plane?

2120
01:52:08,280 --> 01:52:10,120
Speaker 2: I would say, just to go back to the bus.

2121
01:52:10,280 --> 01:52:13,040
Speaker 2: Parking the bus is the hardest. I was gonna say,

2122
01:52:14,200 --> 01:52:15,040
Speaker 2: driving gets easy.

2123
01:52:15,120 --> 01:52:17,160
Speaker 1: Parking, Okay, that begs the question, have you ever hit

2124
01:52:17,200 --> 01:52:19,200
Speaker 1: anything with the bus parking or something.

2125
01:52:19,400 --> 01:52:20,639
Speaker 2: No, I'm gonna knock on some wood.

2126
01:52:21,160 --> 01:52:21,439
Speaker 3: I've not.

2127
01:52:21,720 --> 01:52:25,040
Speaker 2: Actually I shouldn't say that. I'm sure my wife is listening.

2128
01:52:25,479 --> 01:52:28,759
Speaker 2: So the first, our very first trip out, we are coming,

2129
01:52:30,040 --> 01:52:33,760
Speaker 2: I think we're coming into just outside of Utah. We're coming.

2130
01:52:33,760 --> 01:52:37,080
Speaker 2: We just come over this area where just beautiful views,

2131
01:52:37,600 --> 01:52:40,720
Speaker 2: and I see this, this this rest up. At the

2132
01:52:40,760 --> 01:52:42,240
Speaker 2: last second, I was like, I was swinging in there,

2133
01:52:42,240 --> 01:52:45,120
Speaker 2: and I swung in and I didn't realize how tight

2134
01:52:45,200 --> 01:52:48,200
Speaker 2: it was, and I'm backing up. And also this tree

2135
01:52:48,240 --> 01:52:50,920
Speaker 2: branch comes right through the side window and it literally

2136
01:52:51,000 --> 01:52:52,960
Speaker 2: hits me in the back of the head. So that

2137
01:52:54,120 --> 01:52:58,599
Speaker 2: was my first and so far only crunch in the bus.

2138
01:53:00,520 --> 01:53:02,679
Speaker 1: What does Primus mean in the rest of the world

2139
01:53:02,720 --> 01:53:03,759
Speaker 1: outside of the States.

2140
01:53:06,160 --> 01:53:08,040
Speaker 2: It depends on where you go. You know, there's certain

2141
01:53:08,080 --> 01:53:11,600
Speaker 2: places where we're more popular than others we tend to

2142
01:53:12,640 --> 01:53:15,680
Speaker 2: We don't go to Europe that much, never really have,

2143
01:53:16,400 --> 01:53:19,360
Speaker 2: so we're not as popular in Europe as we are here,

2144
01:53:19,600 --> 01:53:22,439
Speaker 2: but in certain places we're a little more than We've

2145
01:53:22,439 --> 01:53:24,840
Speaker 2: always done pretty well in Australia, we do pretty well

2146
01:53:24,880 --> 01:53:30,040
Speaker 2: in South America, but we're the biggest in the States.

2147
01:53:32,080 --> 01:53:34,920
Speaker 1: Okay, in the old days, pre internet, if you're on

2148
01:53:34,960 --> 01:53:38,679
Speaker 1: a major label, which you were, you're on MTV, everybody

2149
01:53:38,800 --> 01:53:41,559
Speaker 1: knows your name, whereas today you could be number one

2150
01:53:41,640 --> 01:53:44,040
Speaker 1: on Spotify. Most people have never even heard your music.

2151
01:53:45,000 --> 01:53:48,640
Speaker 1: So does that frustrate you? Do you want to have

2152
01:53:48,840 --> 01:53:50,519
Speaker 1: more people exposed to what you're doing.

2153
01:53:52,200 --> 01:53:54,599
Speaker 2: I don't know if it frustrates me as much as

2154
01:53:54,640 --> 01:53:59,519
Speaker 2: it frustrates my daughter. I don't really pay attention, you know.

2155
01:53:59,600 --> 01:54:01,800
Speaker 2: It's like, if I can go doom some shows and

2156
01:54:02,200 --> 01:54:05,400
Speaker 2: people show up, and I can, you know, make my

2157
01:54:05,560 --> 01:54:08,639
Speaker 2: living and do my stuff, that's wonderful. If more people

2158
01:54:08,720 --> 01:54:11,880
Speaker 2: show up, that's wonderful. But I don't pay attention to

2159
01:54:11,960 --> 01:54:14,639
Speaker 2: how many Spotify plays we have or any of that stuff.

2160
01:54:14,960 --> 01:54:17,000
Speaker 2: But my daughter did tell me when she was in

2161
01:54:17,120 --> 01:54:19,479
Speaker 2: high school. She's like, you need to get on social

2162
01:54:19,560 --> 01:54:22,000
Speaker 2: media because y'all your fans are getting old and they're

2163
01:54:22,040 --> 01:54:24,400
Speaker 2: gonna die, and then I'm not going to have any legacy.

2164
01:54:24,439 --> 01:54:26,400
Speaker 2: There's going to be nobody you need to get, you know.

2165
01:54:26,680 --> 01:54:29,919
Speaker 2: I'm like, wow, easy, easy. So I have an Instagram

2166
01:54:29,960 --> 01:54:31,560
Speaker 2: account now, but I don't want the hell to do

2167
01:54:31,600 --> 01:54:33,240
Speaker 2: with it. I post fishing pictures on it once in

2168
01:54:33,280 --> 01:54:35,120
Speaker 2: a while. That's that's really all I do.

2169
01:54:36,920 --> 01:54:39,600
Speaker 1: Okay, and you talk about making these records. You have

2170
01:54:39,680 --> 01:54:40,760
Speaker 1: a studio in the house.

2171
01:54:41,640 --> 01:54:45,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've been recording our records here Ran Show Relaxed

2172
01:54:45,920 --> 01:54:49,120
Speaker 2: so since nineteen ninety four, so we've done a lot

2173
01:54:49,160 --> 01:54:49,720
Speaker 2: of records here.

2174
01:54:50,360 --> 01:54:52,360
Speaker 1: What have you got in the studio?

2175
01:54:53,240 --> 01:54:56,160
Speaker 2: I have an old vintage JPI console twenty four eighty eight.

2176
01:54:57,720 --> 01:55:03,600
Speaker 2: I have a two inch sixteen track tape machine, but

2177
01:55:03,640 --> 01:55:06,280
Speaker 2: I just don't use it anymore. I have an ATR

2178
01:55:06,400 --> 01:55:08,800
Speaker 2: machine half inch, just don't use it anymore.

2179
01:55:09,200 --> 01:55:09,360
Speaker 1: You know.

2180
01:55:09,440 --> 01:55:12,160
Speaker 2: The digital stuff is just it's so much more convenient.

2181
01:55:12,240 --> 01:55:15,200
Speaker 2: And I ab'd with friends and nobody could really tell

2182
01:55:15,280 --> 01:55:20,760
Speaker 2: the difference. So it was like, all right, but you know,

2183
01:55:20,840 --> 01:55:21,760
Speaker 2: obviously pro tools.

2184
01:55:22,520 --> 01:55:25,120
Speaker 1: So are you a gear head with a whole, you know,

2185
01:55:25,320 --> 01:55:28,800
Speaker 1: closet full of microphones or you basically have the basics

2186
01:55:28,840 --> 01:55:30,600
Speaker 1: of people bring in what they want. No.

2187
01:55:30,800 --> 01:55:33,640
Speaker 2: I got a bunch of old stuff, vintage stuff, and

2188
01:55:33,760 --> 01:55:37,800
Speaker 2: some newer contemporary stuff. That's I go through periods of

2189
01:55:37,880 --> 01:55:45,240
Speaker 2: gearheading and not. I I do love my API. That

2190
01:55:45,320 --> 01:55:49,200
Speaker 2: thing is spectacular. It's the best sounding console I've ever

2191
01:55:49,240 --> 01:55:53,520
Speaker 2: even heard, so I geek out on that sort of thing.

2192
01:55:53,640 --> 01:55:56,080
Speaker 2: But I go through periods of geeking and then going

2193
01:55:56,120 --> 01:55:57,400
Speaker 2: off and geeking on something else.

2194
01:55:57,480 --> 01:56:01,120
Speaker 1: You know, Okay, since you're so good with cars whatever.

2195
01:56:01,880 --> 01:56:04,360
Speaker 1: Every studio needs a tech. Do you do your own

2196
01:56:04,440 --> 01:56:05,800
Speaker 1: tech or do you call somebody.

2197
01:56:06,440 --> 01:56:08,320
Speaker 2: I have a fellow by the name of Krieg who

2198
01:56:08,440 --> 01:56:11,000
Speaker 2: is amazing. But I do as much as I can

2199
01:56:11,080 --> 01:56:14,080
Speaker 2: because I did used to be a fledgling bench tech.

2200
01:56:14,720 --> 01:56:17,920
Speaker 2: So I do as much as I can. But he's

2201
01:56:17,960 --> 01:56:22,360
Speaker 2: the guy that keeps keeps, keeps the keeps the clock ticking.

2202
01:56:23,960 --> 01:56:26,320
Speaker 1: And then do you play the bass every day or

2203
01:56:26,400 --> 01:56:27,000
Speaker 1: how often?

2204
01:56:28,440 --> 01:56:31,400
Speaker 2: Uh? Then again it's I go through periods where I'm

2205
01:56:31,400 --> 01:56:32,920
Speaker 2: playing a lot, Like right now, I'm playing a lot

2206
01:56:32,960 --> 01:56:35,640
Speaker 2: because I just got a new I got a new

2207
01:56:35,880 --> 01:56:39,720
Speaker 2: six string, and I'm fiddling around with some new amps.

2208
01:56:40,000 --> 01:56:44,000
Speaker 2: But then there's other times when I won't play for weeks.

2209
01:56:45,960 --> 01:56:49,840
Speaker 1: And certainly a p bass is a standard what what's

2210
01:56:49,880 --> 01:56:50,840
Speaker 1: your standard amp?

2211
01:56:53,720 --> 01:56:55,640
Speaker 2: Standard AMP? I don't even know if I have a

2212
01:56:55,720 --> 01:57:01,680
Speaker 2: standard AMP. I avoided for decades going to the giant

2213
01:57:02,040 --> 01:57:06,480
Speaker 2: SVT head that weighs seven thousand pounds and you know,

2214
01:57:06,600 --> 01:57:09,760
Speaker 2: the hernia heead and now I have three of them.

2215
01:57:11,800 --> 01:57:19,120
Speaker 2: I finally scam succumbed, circame succumbed, but because I found

2216
01:57:19,280 --> 01:57:22,840
Speaker 2: that I had endorsements with different companies and whatnot, even

2217
01:57:22,880 --> 01:57:26,440
Speaker 2: with Ampeg for a long time. And I go to

2218
01:57:27,160 --> 01:57:30,400
Speaker 2: Chile or somewhere and they put one of these vintage

2219
01:57:30,600 --> 01:57:34,000
Speaker 2: SVT heads up for me to rent, and it always

2220
01:57:34,120 --> 01:57:38,600
Speaker 2: sounded amazing, and I thought, Jesus Christ, I got it,

2221
01:57:38,680 --> 01:57:40,800
Speaker 2: just find and so I finally broke down. I bought one,

2222
01:57:40,920 --> 01:57:42,520
Speaker 2: and then I bought another one, and then I bought it.

2223
01:57:42,560 --> 01:57:45,680
Speaker 2: And they all sound different, and I have to redo

2224
01:57:45,760 --> 01:57:48,320
Speaker 2: the tubes every now and again, and it's just but

2225
01:57:48,480 --> 01:57:50,600
Speaker 2: they're amazing. You get one that sounds good and it's

2226
01:57:50,840 --> 01:57:52,120
Speaker 2: truly incredible sounding.

2227
01:57:53,000 --> 01:57:56,720
Speaker 1: Okay, And you talk about watching TCM being a big

2228
01:57:56,840 --> 01:57:59,120
Speaker 1: movie addict, to what degree do you pay attention to

2229
01:57:59,200 --> 01:57:59,600
Speaker 1: the news.

2230
01:58:01,120 --> 01:58:03,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I read my news every day. I have

2231
01:58:03,680 --> 01:58:08,040
Speaker 2: my feeds, so I mean actually often multiple times a day.

2232
01:58:11,120 --> 01:58:15,800
Speaker 2: So I feel like I'm fairly in tune. But I'm

2233
01:58:15,840 --> 01:58:19,400
Speaker 2: a big fan of people that excel at what they do,

2234
01:58:19,520 --> 01:58:27,560
Speaker 2: and I'm a big fan of consulting professionals. So when

2235
01:58:27,640 --> 01:58:30,760
Speaker 2: I have an issue with like say a medical issue,

2236
01:58:30,880 --> 01:58:32,800
Speaker 2: or of even friends that have medical issues. I have

2237
01:58:33,040 --> 01:58:36,480
Speaker 2: a friend of mine that graduated from Columbia Med. He's

2238
01:58:36,520 --> 01:58:41,760
Speaker 2: been a pediatric doc for decades now in Oakland, and

2239
01:58:42,680 --> 01:58:44,760
Speaker 2: I call him after I talk to my doc. If

2240
01:58:44,800 --> 01:58:47,240
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily agree with what he's saying, I talk

2241
01:58:47,280 --> 01:58:50,000
Speaker 2: to him. If I don't get the information from him,

2242
01:58:50,080 --> 01:58:51,800
Speaker 2: I talk to a buddy of mine who's a brain

2243
01:58:51,840 --> 01:58:54,760
Speaker 2: surgeon in Manhattan, and that's where I get my information.

2244
01:58:54,840 --> 01:58:58,040
Speaker 2: I don't go onto blogs and decide that the vaccination

2245
01:58:58,160 --> 01:59:02,240
Speaker 2: is not good for me because some guy in some

2246
01:59:02,520 --> 01:59:06,240
Speaker 2: cabin somewhere said it adversely affect his ear, lobes or whatever.

2247
01:59:07,040 --> 01:59:10,320
Speaker 2: I tend to rely on professionals, So it's the same

2248
01:59:10,680 --> 01:59:14,920
Speaker 2: a lot of times with with elements of the news

2249
01:59:15,040 --> 01:59:17,640
Speaker 2: that I may be intrigued by or concerned with. I

2250
01:59:17,720 --> 01:59:21,720
Speaker 2: have friends that like our manager. He's a huge sports guy.

2251
01:59:21,840 --> 01:59:26,760
Speaker 2: He knows everything about every every draft pick, every team.

2252
01:59:27,200 --> 01:59:28,960
Speaker 2: That's his thing, it's not my thing. I have a

2253
01:59:29,040 --> 01:59:32,080
Speaker 2: friend who's like that with politics, any little angle and dangle.

2254
01:59:32,120 --> 01:59:35,320
Speaker 2: He knows all what's happening, and so I like going

2255
01:59:35,320 --> 01:59:36,800
Speaker 2: to lunch with him once in a while and hearing

2256
01:59:36,840 --> 01:59:39,880
Speaker 2: his perspective. Stuart Coplan's very good at that too, And

2257
01:59:40,000 --> 01:59:42,160
Speaker 2: Stuart he likes to be a contrarian, so he likes

2258
01:59:42,200 --> 01:59:45,560
Speaker 2: to take opposing viewpoints just to get the thing steamed up.

2259
01:59:46,120 --> 01:59:50,240
Speaker 2: So when all of a sudden done, I play the bass,

2260
01:59:50,560 --> 01:59:53,120
Speaker 2: and that's what you know if you want to know

2261
01:59:53,160 --> 01:59:55,400
Speaker 2: about the bass. I'm a pretty good resource to to

2262
01:59:56,520 --> 01:59:58,080
Speaker 2: talk to you about. I don't know everything, but I

2263
01:59:58,200 --> 02:00:01,400
Speaker 2: know enough to kind of move you along, and I

2264
02:00:01,520 --> 02:00:06,959
Speaker 2: tend to be that way with how I filter information.

2265
02:00:07,520 --> 02:00:10,360
Speaker 1: Does that makes are you optimistic or pessimistic about the

2266
02:00:10,440 --> 02:00:11,520
Speaker 1: direction of the country.

2267
02:00:13,760 --> 02:00:16,080
Speaker 2: I think as I'm getting older, I tend to be

2268
02:00:16,200 --> 02:00:18,160
Speaker 2: more of a curmudgeon, but I try not to be.

2269
02:00:18,320 --> 02:00:20,320
Speaker 2: And I'm very fortunate that my wife is one of

2270
02:00:20,320 --> 02:00:22,560
Speaker 2: the most positive humans, if not the most positive human

2271
02:00:22,560 --> 02:00:24,400
Speaker 2: I've ever met in my entire life, so it helps

2272
02:00:24,480 --> 02:00:30,880
Speaker 2: keep me balance. But I remember back in the days

2273
02:00:31,200 --> 02:00:33,320
Speaker 2: of the eighties and living in Berkeley, and we were

2274
02:00:33,320 --> 02:00:35,800
Speaker 2: all anti apartheid and I'm not buying shell gas and

2275
02:00:35,840 --> 02:00:36,920
Speaker 2: this and that and the next thing. But it was

2276
02:00:37,000 --> 02:00:41,680
Speaker 2: all very superficial. We were just kind of we're bouncing,

2277
02:00:42,520 --> 02:00:46,240
Speaker 2: We're paraphrasing things that other people that were more knowledgeable

2278
02:00:46,280 --> 02:00:49,080
Speaker 2: than us, that were cool in our scene, were saying,

2279
02:00:50,120 --> 02:00:53,080
Speaker 2: now that I'm older, I'm a little more aware. It's

2280
02:00:53,400 --> 02:00:55,400
Speaker 2: it tends to and I see it with a lot

2281
02:00:55,440 --> 02:00:57,000
Speaker 2: of my friends too. It tends to make you a

2282
02:00:57,080 --> 02:00:58,880
Speaker 2: little more pessimistic.

2283
02:00:59,120 --> 02:01:00,920
Speaker 3: And so.

2284
02:01:03,400 --> 02:01:04,600
Speaker 2: I don't know if I answered your question.

2285
02:01:04,720 --> 02:01:09,440
Speaker 1: Well, I know, I think that's good enough. So moving forward,

2286
02:01:09,480 --> 02:01:15,520
Speaker 1: you're doing this frog tour, your manager suggested it. What's

2287
02:01:15,600 --> 02:01:17,720
Speaker 1: coming down the pike? Do you just wake up every

2288
02:01:17,800 --> 02:01:19,800
Speaker 1: day with a new idea or do you have like

2289
02:01:19,880 --> 02:01:24,240
Speaker 1: a three year plan? What might we expect from last Claypool.

2290
02:01:25,120 --> 02:01:29,400
Speaker 2: Well, I just spent the last i'd say three or

2291
02:01:29,440 --> 02:01:37,120
Speaker 2: four months intensely studying, studying harder than I've ever studied

2292
02:01:37,560 --> 02:01:40,800
Speaker 2: in my entire existence on the planet to get my

2293
02:01:40,840 --> 02:01:43,840
Speaker 2: pilot's license. So I'm kind of coming out of that

2294
02:01:43,880 --> 02:01:45,600
Speaker 2: because I just got my license a couple of weeks ago,

2295
02:01:45,680 --> 02:01:48,480
Speaker 2: and now I'm I can actually start living my life again.

2296
02:01:50,600 --> 02:01:53,080
Speaker 2: So gearing up for the Sprog Brigade Tour. We're doing

2297
02:01:53,120 --> 02:01:56,000
Speaker 2: a benefit in a couple of weeks at Primus with

2298
02:01:57,000 --> 02:01:59,800
Speaker 2: a couple buddies from Tool and Queens of the Stone,

2299
02:01:59,800 --> 02:02:03,320
Speaker 2: A and A comic buddy of ours for a friend

2300
02:02:03,320 --> 02:02:07,800
Speaker 2: of ours who's who was battling cancer. But gearing up

2301
02:02:07,800 --> 02:02:09,840
Speaker 2: for this Sprogagate thing. I'm learning a bunch of songs.

2302
02:02:09,840 --> 02:02:12,000
Speaker 2: I got to relearn all that Pink Floyd animal stuff

2303
02:02:12,000 --> 02:02:13,880
Speaker 2: because we're going to do that in its entirety.

2304
02:02:14,720 --> 02:02:14,840
Speaker 1: Saw.

2305
02:02:14,880 --> 02:02:17,840
Speaker 2: I'm gearing up for that and gearing up for the

2306
02:02:18,280 --> 02:02:21,000
Speaker 2: summer run, and then eventually I'm going to get back

2307
02:02:21,040 --> 02:02:23,760
Speaker 2: in the studio with Sean and finish up this Delirium record,

2308
02:02:23,800 --> 02:02:27,480
Speaker 2: and eventually get with Billy and finish the thing with

2309
02:02:27,560 --> 02:02:28,240
Speaker 2: Billy strings.

2310
02:02:29,640 --> 02:02:31,440
Speaker 1: What's this whole pilot's thing about.

2311
02:02:32,920 --> 02:02:36,520
Speaker 2: So in the early nineties, I was living in Berkeley

2312
02:02:36,800 --> 02:02:40,880
Speaker 2: and my uncle who's retired now retired auto mechanic, he

2313
02:02:41,000 --> 02:02:43,040
Speaker 2: had his own plane. He had a bonanza and he

2314
02:02:43,080 --> 02:02:44,360
Speaker 2: took us up and I was like, yeah, this was

2315
02:02:44,360 --> 02:02:47,600
Speaker 2: this really cool, and I started taking lessons from his buddy,

2316
02:02:48,200 --> 02:02:49,880
Speaker 2: and then we moved up to the country and I

2317
02:02:50,000 --> 02:02:54,040
Speaker 2: just never finished. So all these years have gone by,

2318
02:02:54,120 --> 02:02:56,040
Speaker 2: the kids have moved out, and I thought, well, shit,

2319
02:02:56,360 --> 02:03:00,800
Speaker 2: I should finish this thing. So I dove in head first,

2320
02:03:00,880 --> 02:03:04,680
Speaker 2: and really really just because I knew I had to

2321
02:03:04,760 --> 02:03:10,440
Speaker 2: do it. Between projects because it takes so much of

2322
02:03:10,600 --> 02:03:14,320
Speaker 2: my mental capacity that I knew I couldn't I couldn't

2323
02:03:14,360 --> 02:03:18,040
Speaker 2: be working on creative output and all this input data

2324
02:03:18,120 --> 02:03:20,000
Speaker 2: input at the same time. It just wouldn't have worked.

2325
02:03:20,560 --> 02:03:22,800
Speaker 2: So I just put everything on hold and I got

2326
02:03:22,840 --> 02:03:26,000
Speaker 2: my license. It took me from the beginning of December

2327
02:03:26,160 --> 02:03:27,120
Speaker 2: till a couple of weeks ago.

2328
02:03:27,880 --> 02:03:29,640
Speaker 1: You got your license. You're going to get a plane.

2329
02:03:30,840 --> 02:03:32,080
Speaker 2: I have a plane with a friend.

2330
02:03:33,000 --> 02:03:33,840
Speaker 1: What kind of plane.

2331
02:03:34,640 --> 02:03:36,320
Speaker 2: It's a Sirus SR twenty.

2332
02:03:36,680 --> 02:03:39,919
Speaker 4: Okay, so it comes with a parachute theoretically, so the parachute,

2333
02:03:39,920 --> 02:03:43,160
Speaker 4: thank god, assuming you know a lot of people don't

2334
02:03:43,240 --> 02:03:46,160
Speaker 4: pull it because it tends up really damaging the plane.

2335
02:03:46,200 --> 02:03:47,600
Speaker 4: What about instrument rating.

2336
02:03:48,880 --> 02:03:50,400
Speaker 2: I'm guess I'm gonna go for that next.

2337
02:03:51,720 --> 02:03:56,000
Speaker 1: Okay. You're a very fourth right humorous person. But you

2338
02:03:56,120 --> 02:04:00,960
Speaker 1: talk about being into movies, et cetera. Are you always

2339
02:04:01,680 --> 02:04:05,800
Speaker 1: this kind of upbeat or do you go into dark areas?

2340
02:04:05,880 --> 02:04:08,440
Speaker 1: Do you get depressed? I mean, am I just seeing

2341
02:04:08,520 --> 02:04:10,800
Speaker 1: one side of less? Or is this who you are?

2342
02:04:10,960 --> 02:04:12,600
Speaker 1: Twenty four to seven? Oh?

2343
02:04:12,680 --> 02:04:16,520
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, I It's funny because, like I said,

2344
02:04:16,600 --> 02:04:19,920
Speaker 2: my wife is literally she's the most positive person I've

2345
02:04:19,960 --> 02:04:21,640
Speaker 2: ever met. She wakes up in the morning, she gives

2346
02:04:21,640 --> 02:04:23,520
Speaker 2: you a big smile. You know, I wake up in

2347
02:04:23,520 --> 02:04:25,400
Speaker 2: the morning. Sometimes I have a big smile. Sometimes I'm

2348
02:04:25,440 --> 02:04:29,480
Speaker 2: like eh, And our son is very much like her.

2349
02:04:29,640 --> 02:04:33,800
Speaker 2: He wakes up whistling. But our daughter's more like me.

2350
02:04:34,000 --> 02:04:37,680
Speaker 2: You know, peaks and valleys, so get you get less

2351
02:04:37,680 --> 02:04:40,520
Speaker 2: on a peak, and I'm a happy clam, but you

2352
02:04:40,640 --> 02:04:42,800
Speaker 2: get me on a valley, not such a happy clam.

2353
02:04:42,960 --> 02:04:47,560
Speaker 2: And it's funny because I don't usually do sugar and

2354
02:04:47,680 --> 02:04:53,600
Speaker 2: I don't usually do desserts. Because my buddy Slavic, who's Polish, says,

2355
02:04:53,680 --> 02:04:56,200
Speaker 2: goddamn it, level don't know, no, no, goddamn desert man,

2356
02:04:56,200 --> 02:04:57,920
Speaker 2: You're going to turn into an asshole in twenty minutes.

2357
02:04:58,000 --> 02:05:01,560
Speaker 2: Because for twenty minutes I'm like w happy guy on sugar,

2358
02:05:01,800 --> 02:05:04,640
Speaker 2: and then twenty minutes later I'm like, I want to

2359
02:05:04,680 --> 02:05:05,240
Speaker 2: get out of here.

2360
02:05:05,880 --> 02:05:06,040
Speaker 1: You know.

2361
02:05:06,320 --> 02:05:09,080
Speaker 2: So I have my peaks and valleys.

2362
02:05:09,560 --> 02:05:11,080
Speaker 1: Well how low do the valleys get?

2363
02:05:12,160 --> 02:05:15,160
Speaker 2: They can get pretty low. But you know that's why

2364
02:05:15,200 --> 02:05:18,040
Speaker 2: I'm happy. I have my wife here. She's always lets

2365
02:05:18,080 --> 02:05:22,160
Speaker 2: me know when I'm feeling down or you know, things

2366
02:05:22,200 --> 02:05:25,480
Speaker 2: are looking less than cheery. She lets me know that

2367
02:05:25,520 --> 02:05:27,680
Speaker 2: I've got it pretty good, and I do. I have

2368
02:05:27,800 --> 02:05:29,000
Speaker 2: it spectacularly good.

2369
02:05:30,120 --> 02:05:35,000
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're living your life now, Any dreams beyond this,

2370
02:05:35,280 --> 02:05:38,120
Speaker 1: anything you want to accomplish, talking about your daughter, talked

2371
02:05:38,160 --> 02:05:41,040
Speaker 1: about legacy, said that's not important, or you just say

2372
02:05:41,080 --> 02:05:44,040
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna merrily go along and that's my life.

2373
02:05:45,160 --> 02:05:51,720
Speaker 2: Well, it's become very important to me recently to try

2374
02:05:51,800 --> 02:05:54,360
Speaker 2: and do the South of the Pumphouse film for a

2375
02:05:54,440 --> 02:05:58,520
Speaker 2: few different reasons. One, I think it's very relevant right now.

2376
02:05:58,640 --> 02:06:05,120
Speaker 2: It's super very intense UH social commentary, a lot of racism,

2377
02:06:05,480 --> 02:06:09,080
Speaker 2: a lot of misogynistic elements, and there's it's a pretty

2378
02:06:09,200 --> 02:06:12,560
Speaker 2: it's a it's a hotbed for sure. But also my

2379
02:06:12,640 --> 02:06:16,880
Speaker 2: buddy Mark Corer, who I was, who I was. He's

2380
02:06:16,880 --> 02:06:18,560
Speaker 2: a director who I was going to do this project

2381
02:06:18,640 --> 02:06:23,040
Speaker 2: with many years ago. He he was one of the

2382
02:06:23,080 --> 02:06:28,240
Speaker 2: hot shot video directors in his day, and he he

2383
02:06:28,640 --> 02:06:32,320
Speaker 2: his first daughter was born with UH with an affliction,

2384
02:06:32,560 --> 02:06:35,960
Speaker 2: and since then he's he's that's what he that's been

2385
02:06:36,000 --> 02:06:38,840
Speaker 2: his life is taking care of her. And because of

2386
02:06:38,920 --> 02:06:40,960
Speaker 2: that he kind of fell out of you know, he

2387
02:06:41,120 --> 02:06:43,120
Speaker 2: was with Spike Jones and all those guys. He was

2388
02:06:43,160 --> 02:06:45,000
Speaker 2: one of those guys, and he should have been gone

2389
02:06:45,040 --> 02:06:47,680
Speaker 2: on to be a great filmmaker, and he just had

2390
02:06:47,880 --> 02:06:50,000
Speaker 2: He just kind of fell out of it to take

2391
02:06:50,040 --> 02:06:53,240
Speaker 2: care of his family. And he's at a point now

2392
02:06:53,240 --> 02:06:55,600
Speaker 2: where where he can he can do this thing. So

2393
02:06:55,640 --> 02:06:57,760
Speaker 2: it's really important to me that we try and get

2394
02:06:57,800 --> 02:07:01,560
Speaker 2: this project going again, so that so that, hey, I

2395
02:07:01,600 --> 02:07:04,360
Speaker 2: can fulfill one of my dreams. But b because I

2396
02:07:04,400 --> 02:07:07,280
Speaker 2: think the world needs to see what Mark Core can do,

2397
02:07:07,360 --> 02:07:09,680
Speaker 2: because he's really one of the most talented people I know.

2398
02:07:10,960 --> 02:07:13,560
Speaker 1: Well less not only are you unique in your playing,

2399
02:07:13,640 --> 02:07:17,120
Speaker 1: you're unique in your identity, your sense of humor. You're

2400
02:07:17,240 --> 02:07:21,440
Speaker 1: obviously very intelligent. It's been great talking to you. I

2401
02:07:21,560 --> 02:07:23,520
Speaker 1: want to thank you for taking the time for me

2402
02:07:23,640 --> 02:07:24,360
Speaker 1: and my audience.

2403
02:07:25,240 --> 02:07:28,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you're a very kind man and it was

2404
02:07:28,160 --> 02:07:31,040
Speaker 2: a great conversation. I always enjoy a good conversation.

2405
02:07:32,040 --> 02:07:35,280
Speaker 1: Okay, till next time. This is Bob left six