1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Hey there, everybody, Happy, Happy Easter. It is Sunday, April fifth, 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: and we have a very special treat for you on 3 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:13,319 Speaker 1: this Easter edition of Amy and t J. 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 2: I miss this. This is something we used to do 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 2: regularly in our previous lives. We would make sure every 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 2: week we talked to some a faith leader of some kind. 7 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 3: It is just, really it's a. 8 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 2: Relief to be able to do this, to talk to 9 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 2: somebody who could give us all just a little encouragement 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 2: or a little better I don't know, some sense of 11 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 2: comfort and some really challenging times. 12 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: Yes, we need that now more than ever before. We 13 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 1: have discussed about trying to revitalize a version of that 14 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: having a faith leader, and we're working on that. I 15 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: want to let you know, those of you who listen 16 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,279 Speaker 1: to us faithfully every day or at least maybe every weekend, 17 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: we are working on trying to find some one who 18 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,319 Speaker 1: can guide us through these tough times. So today, on 19 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: this Easter Sunday, we found someone. The creator, executive, producer, director, 20 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: and writer for Amazon Prime's wildly popular series. I don't 21 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:05,919 Speaker 1: know if you all have heard of it. It's called 22 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: The Chosen, but three hundred million of you have watched 23 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: it around the world. Were you even aware of this series? Ah? 24 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 2: Yes, because three hundred million around the world. I am 25 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 2: very attuned to pop culture and what's happening rogues. 26 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: All right, I'm so sorry I even asked you that. No, 27 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: So if you are not familiar with it, here's what 28 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:30,559 Speaker 1: it is. It's a historical drama based on the life 29 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: of Jesus Christ, but it's told through the narrative, through 30 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,639 Speaker 1: the eyes of those who knew him. It's a really 31 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: cool creative direction that has never been taken before. We've 32 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: never had a series based on the life of Jesus Christ. 33 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: So the man who created it all is now with us. 34 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: Please everyone welcome Dallas Jenkins. Dallas, congratulations, by the way, 35 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: on all of your incredible success spreading the word. Why 36 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: do you think what you've managed to pull off has 37 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: resonated so much with so many folks? 38 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 3: Well, I think I think the concept of me pulling 39 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 3: it off is interesting because the show has and I 40 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 3: hope this comes across the right way. The show has 41 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 3: reached a level of success objectively that's far beyond my capability. 42 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 3: Meaning I know I'm not this good, and I'm not 43 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 3: just saying that it's not just like a platitude. I 44 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 3: think I've made a good show. I'm proud of it, 45 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 3: but the reach that it's had and some of the 46 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 3: barriers it's broken down are not something that I'm quite 47 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 3: capable of. That said, when you ask why do I 48 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 3: think it's happened, besides, I think some just God and 49 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 3: some other things that I can't even control. When people 50 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 3: recognize me and want to thank me for making the show, 51 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 3: I would say, and I'm not exaggerating when I say this, 52 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 3: eighty to ninety percent of them all will make make 53 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 3: some comment about humanity or authenticity. The Bible genre, the 54 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 3: genre of Biblical storytelling throughout the years. But you know, 55 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 3: movies based on stories from the Bible and Jesus have 56 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 3: been done for one hundred years, all the way back 57 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 3: to the twenties, nineteen twenties, and there's a formality to them, 58 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 3: a reverence that often lends itself to a distance, like 59 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 3: it feels like, you know, stained glass windows, even when 60 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 3: you're watching a movie that Jesus and the Disciples feel 61 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 3: like stained glass windows or statues. So there's something about 62 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 3: our emphasis on humanity and making, you know, kind of 63 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 3: reminding you of the viewer that this really happened, that 64 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 3: these people were walking around as human beings just like 65 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 3: we were, that they had questions and doubts and struggles 66 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 3: and the normal everyday issues that we still face today. 67 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 3: Something about that has seemed to unlock or you know, 68 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 3: crack a code for people, that has kept what would 69 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 3: normally just be a Bible story that not everyone is 70 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 3: really into, and it makes it feel like a normal 71 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 3: TV show, and then by definition, makes it feel like 72 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 3: these were real human beings, which which doesn't always isn't 73 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 3: always the case when you watch a Bible movie or 74 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 3: a Bible limited series. 75 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 2: Dallas, you mentioned humanity, and I want to ask humanity 76 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 2: versus Christianity, is this is your success or a part 77 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: of it? It do in great part. So this is 78 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: a human story and it's not just because of a 79 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 2: lot of Christians are following this show. I know it's 80 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 2: based on what it's based on, But how much of 81 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 2: the success is really attributed to going beyond Christianity and 82 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: hitting on humanity? 83 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, that's a huge thing, you know. I don't. 84 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 3: On one hand, you could say it's the most Christian 85 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 3: show ever because it's literally it's about Christ. On the 86 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 3: other hand, well over a third of our viewers are 87 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 3: non believers. In fact, over half our cast and crew 88 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 3: are not believers or traditional believers. Obviously they believe Jesus existed, 89 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 3: but not all of them would would believe Jesus was 90 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 3: God or the son of God or whatever. I think 91 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 3: the fact that it just it doesn't feel like a 92 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 3: church service. It doesn't feel like it's it's got an agenda, 93 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 3: because it doesn't. I'm not. I'm trying to capture the 94 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 3: character and intentions of Jesus and the Gospels and the 95 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 3: best way I can. I am, of course a believer, 96 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 3: but I don't sit down and write or direct the 97 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 3: show thinking, you know, how do I bring people to church? 98 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 3: How do I convert people? It's it's how do I 99 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 3: capture this story as best I can? And then the 100 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 3: rest will take care of itself and the viewer is 101 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 3: left to to to respond how they want. And and 102 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 3: you know, there are plenty of stories that I watch 103 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 3: movies and TV shows that I don't necessarily agree with 104 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,679 Speaker 3: or believe the worldview of the creator of the show 105 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 3: or the movie, But I still am enjoying the world 106 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 3: that's been created. You know my big fat Greek wedding 107 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 3: Shindler's list. You know, I don't watch those movies going oh, 108 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 3: those aren't for me. They're from a different faith tradition, 109 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 3: or a different religion or whatever it is, or a 110 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 3: different culture. I'm still able to really appreciate it, and 111 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 3: I think that's been a huge part of the show. 112 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 4: That's cool. 113 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: I mean, this is described as a historical drama based 114 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: on the life of Jesus Christ as seen through or 115 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: experienced by the people who knew him. And congratulations by 116 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: the way, on the sixth season, So that's incredibly cool. 117 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: Three hundred million plus viewers, and you point out that 118 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: not all of them are necessarily of faith or believers 119 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: in the traditional sense. 120 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 4: Who is this show for? 121 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 3: So again, I'm not trying to be cheeky with the 122 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 3: answer to this question, but when I'm writing with my 123 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 3: co writers or when we're directing, I'm not thinking about 124 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 3: the viewer per se. Now, of course, as a filmmaker, 125 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 3: you always want your work to be seen, you want 126 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 3: it to be understood, So there's obviously traditional storytelling techniques 127 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 3: that are meant for the viewer. But I'm not trying 128 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 3: to think, well, well, this will us offend somebody, or 129 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 3: can I gain more praise with this choice or avoid 130 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 3: criticism with this choice? That would cripple me, especially when 131 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 3: you're talking about the story of Jesus, which even within 132 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 3: the Christian community is wildly there's a wildly diverse array 133 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 3: of opinions and feedback, So I can't write it thinking 134 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 3: who's most going to appreciate this? So I would argue 135 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 3: that it's for everybody that wants to see. You know, 136 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 3: what I would contend is a good historical drama, and believers, 137 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 3: of course, have a certain response to it. For a 138 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 3: lot of them, it's a it's a confirmation of something 139 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 3: they believe. But then maybe their eyes are opened even 140 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,679 Speaker 3: more to certain realizations. Like again, a lot of traditional 141 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 3: believers will say, I've never considered X, I've never considered why. 142 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 3: I've never thought about how the disciples would have reacted 143 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 3: to Jesus saying this. That's really fascinating. That makes me 144 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 3: even more passionate about what Jesus said. Then you've got 145 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 3: non believers who watch it going, I enjoy this in 146 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 3: the same way that I enjoy Harry Potter. I don't 147 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 3: necessarily believe in the story itself necessarily, but I'm enjoying 148 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 3: the drama I'm in during the storytelling, and it is, 149 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 3: by many accounts, the greatest story ever told. It's got 150 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 3: a It's a beautiful, beautiful story, regardless of where you 151 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 3: stand on the in your faith. So I think that's 152 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 3: that's really you know, you don't you oftentimes don't want 153 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 3: to say, well, this is for everybody, because sometimes if 154 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 3: it's for everybody, it's for nobody. But I really think 155 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 3: that that's the case in this in this show, which 156 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 3: is there's no religious litmus test for you to to 157 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 3: watch it, and that and and I'm saying that as 158 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 3: the person who makes it, and and and we found 159 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 3: that to be true. 160 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: That was cool. 161 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 2: I never made the comparison. Really, Jesus, Harry Potter, I 162 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 2: get it now, Jesus ride at Universal Studios. 163 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 3: I really hope no one just exerts this clip and says, 164 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 3: the creator of the Chosen, But. 165 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 2: You speak like a guy who's been in the media 166 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 2: or been in the public eye for a while, you know, 167 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 2: I know. 168 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 3: You guys have never experienced any kind of misunderstanding. 169 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: No, no one's ever misrepresented what we said or what 170 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,040 Speaker 1: we've done. We know nothing about that. 171 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 2: That's a very good point tells what this might seem. 172 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 2: It seems a little silly to even say it out loud. 173 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 2: What was your source material? And by that, I mean 174 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 2: do you literally sit down and write a script or 175 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 2: try to lay out your show? And how the Bible 176 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 2: opened next to you? And how do you go about 177 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 2: getting the material for your show? Is it literally taken 178 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,079 Speaker 2: right from the Bible and then you put it in 179 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 2: whatever form you wanted to be in. 180 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, we of course start with that. So even 181 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 3: back in twenty seventeen when my co writers and I 182 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 3: got together in my basement to Illinois and we're sketching out, 183 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 3: you know, what we want this show to be, and 184 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 3: how many seasons and what's the beginning, middle, and end 185 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 3: and all of that. And we were treating it like 186 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 3: any writers of the show. Would you know, You've got 187 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 3: character profiles, you've got key moments, You've got you know, 188 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 3: where do we want to end? How do we want 189 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 3: to get there? All that ord of stuff. Now, of 190 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 3: course we start with the Bible because that's the primary 191 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 3: source of truth and inspiration for a show like this. Now, 192 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 3: you start with a Bible and you go Okay, I'll 193 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 3: just give you a quick example. You take a moment 194 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 3: from the Gospels, such as Jesus and Nicodemus meet on 195 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 3: the roof under cover of darkness in secret to talk 196 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 3: about who Jesus is and why he's here. This is 197 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 3: John chapter three. This is the most famous chapter in 198 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 3: the Bible. This is the verse you see at football 199 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 3: games John three sixteen. So typically you see that that 200 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 3: chapter played out in a movie, a Jesus movie, and 201 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 3: it's literally just word for word. You know, Jesus said this, 202 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 3: Nicodemus said this. Sometimes it's even narrated and it's just 203 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 3: played out like that. Well, we say, okay, we know 204 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 3: that happened. That scene's going to be in our show. 205 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 3: How do we get there. What do we know about Nicodemus, 206 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 3: What do we know about this time period? What do 207 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 3: we know about the religious leaders that you know that 208 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 3: Nicodemus represents. There's a lot of people who've read John 209 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 3: three sixteen or seen the verse at football games and 210 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 3: have no idea who Jesus was talking to. Right, so 211 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 3: we go, let's let's like any good traditional TV show, 212 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 3: you want to care about the characters, and so if 213 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 3: you see it just totally out of context, and we're 214 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 3: just relying on the Bible verse by verse. You really 215 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 3: don't get a sense of who these people are, why 216 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 3: they're asking these questions. The Bible, you know, the Gospels 217 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 3: weren't written for a television show. They were written as 218 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 3: essentially Jesus's greatest hits to prove that he was the Messiah. 219 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 3: So for a TV show, we're thinking, all right, so 220 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 3: we know that Nicodemus was a religious leader. Okay, the 221 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 3: Bible doesn't get into some of the traditions and some 222 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 3: of the rules and some of the personality types of 223 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 3: religious leaders. Then we go to other sources for that. Right, then, 224 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 3: why would they have been meeting in secret? Oh, because 225 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 3: a religious leader wouldn't have typically believed in Jesus. He 226 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 3: would have had to be under in secret if he 227 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 3: believed in Jesus, because he wouldn't have wanted to get 228 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 3: in trouble with his fellow religious leaders. So those are 229 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 3: the kinds of things that aren't specifically mentioned in scripture, 230 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 3: but we know that they were true. So we use 231 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 3: cultural context, history, racal context, historical sources of course, the Bible. 232 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 3: And then there's this element the human element, How would 233 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 3: a human being like that react in this scenario? What 234 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 3: would take place after this moment in scripture that we 235 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 3: don't see in scripture. So it's a variety of sources 236 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 3: that we use, starting with the Bible. 237 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: Look, I cannot even imagine the undertaking of something like that, 238 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: because it's one thing to tell a story that's been 239 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: told that a lot of people are familiar with, but 240 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: then to take the creative licenses that you have to 241 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: take to make it a television production that's entertaining, that 242 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,839 Speaker 1: brings you in, and that provides context that you're having 243 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: to fill in. I know you say that you're not 244 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: writing it and you're not producing it based on what 245 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: people will think, because everyone's got their opinions, But my god, 246 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: you have to piss some people off and upset people 247 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: with choices you've made and it's not what they think happened, 248 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 1: And you actually really focus a lot on the why, 249 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: not just the what. So there is there is an 250 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: interpretation there that you're choosing what has been some of 251 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: the feedback that you haven't necessarily loved hearing, and how 252 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: have you incorporated that, if at all, into other episodes 253 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: or later seasons. 254 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 2: We want to hear the hate. 255 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, because you know, obviously you've got to 256 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: have a lot incoming, good and bad. 257 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, I mean it's yes. You can just do 258 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 3: a simple goog you know, YouTube search for my name 259 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 3: and you'll find, you know, dozens of videos with hundreds 260 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 3: of thousands, if not millions, of yous calling me a 261 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,719 Speaker 3: heretic and a dangerous person. Then you've got plenty of 262 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 3: videos as well calling me the greatest thing who's ever lived, 263 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 3: and you know they were. Neither one of those is true, 264 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 3: and I can't. I can't, you know, seek to gain 265 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 3: or avoid either either response. Now I'll say this, I 266 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 3: do have a bit of a superpower. And the superpower 267 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 3: came to me back in twenty seventeen when I had 268 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 3: a huge career failure. A movie that I'd made that 269 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 3: was released nationwide completely bombed, and I genuinely didn't know 270 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:08,959 Speaker 3: if I was ever going to make another movie or 271 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 3: television show. And for the first time in my career, 272 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 3: I was genuinely okay if I didn't. I had this 273 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 3: experience with God where it was clear to me, And 274 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 3: this is why the name of my studio is five 275 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 3: and two Studios. Five loaves and two fish, the story 276 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 3: of the Feeding of the five thousand, famous story from 277 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 3: the Gospels, where I was reminded by someone I didn't 278 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 3: even know, it's not your job to feed five thousand, 279 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 3: it's your job to provide five loaves and two fish. 280 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 3: And so that concept, which in I think mainstream culture 281 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 3: would be like, don't focus on the results, focus on 282 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 3: the process. But I genuinely, for the first time in 283 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 3: my life, who you know, as someone who used to 284 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 3: be a narcissist and someone whose drug of choice was 285 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 3: validation and affirmation, I really gave all that up and 286 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 3: I just thought, all I need to focus on is 287 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 3: five loaves and two fish, whatever those are. If I 288 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 3: hand them to God, he deems them worthy of acceptance, 289 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 3: the transaction is over. And so I got to a 290 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 3: place where I genuinely don't care what the response is 291 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 3: from any one other than God or my wife. And 292 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 3: when you get to that point, it is a superpower. 293 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 3: And so that applies to not only the criticism. I mean, 294 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 3: I'm just not going to base my life or my 295 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 3: beliefs in Christ or my understanding of scripture on a 296 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 3: YouTube comment. I don't think a single YouTube comment is 297 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 3: going to settle two thousand years of debate on some 298 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 3: of these theological concepts that caused so much controversy. I 299 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 3: know people believe that, but I don't. So I'm not 300 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 3: going to base my value or my worth or my 301 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 3: confidence in what I'm doing you on YouTube comments, and 302 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 3: so that applies not only to the hate but to 303 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 3: the praise. So it's lovely. I love it, of course 304 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 3: when someone comes up to me and says my life 305 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 3: has changed because of this show, or you know what, 306 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 3: I'm not a believer, but I love your show. I mean, 307 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 3: I just had a podcast with a famous atheist who 308 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 3: is a huge fan of the show, watches watched all 309 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 3: five seasons and obsessed that even though he doesn't believe, 310 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 3: you know, in the story. So I love hearing that. 311 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 3: It means something to me. But it's not what I seek, 312 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 3: it's not why I do it. And when you get 313 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 3: to that place where you really are just focused, you know, 314 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 3: on five loaves and two fish, and if God multiplies them, 315 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,239 Speaker 3: then that's great, but it's not up to you. It 316 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 3: it really is a it really is a game changer. 317 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 3: And so that's been my life and I hope that 318 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 3: I continue to maintain that regardless of the level of 319 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 3: success or the level of criticism downs. 320 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 2: What is the reception you've gotten from God and your wife? 321 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 2: You said that's the only audience of the matters. 322 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 3: Well, I'll know for sure from God when I when 323 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 3: I pass away, and I hope that when I face him, 324 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 3: I I I get a I get a well done, 325 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 3: good and faithful service for servant, and not a what 326 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 3: were you thinking that? Or you know, hopefully it's like 327 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 3: you did really well. There was that one moment in 328 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 3: episode four of season five where I don't know where 329 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 3: you got that, but uh, but so far it seems 330 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 3: to be going fairly well. The response around the world 331 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 3: seems to indicate that that people aren't just replacing the 332 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 3: Bible with my show, which would be a problem. It 333 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 3: seems to be drawing more people towards learning more about 334 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 3: who Jesus was, uh, which which is of course the 335 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 3: biggest success I think from you know my wife, of course, 336 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 3: she's gone through this with me. I'll say this, from 337 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 3: from the moment we started doing this show, it's probably 338 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 3: been the hardest eight years of our lives ever. You 339 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 3: know that, from medical crises to to to family issues, 340 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 3: all of those things. Our family has gotten closer to 341 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 3: closer than ever, but a lot of it's trauma bonding. 342 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 3: It's just been a you know, it's just been the 343 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 3: hardest thing we've ever done. It's brought in lots of challenges, 344 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 3: lots of criticism, of course, but it's also brought in 345 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 3: lots of beauty and uh and and all over the 346 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 3: world and every you know, just just you know. A 347 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 3: couple of weeks ago, we broke our own Guinness Book 348 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,959 Speaker 3: of World records for the most translated show in history, 349 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 3: right over one hundred and twenty six languages. This show 350 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 3: has been translated into and it plays in every country 351 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 3: in the world. So those are the kinds of things 352 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 3: where you go, it seems like God is pleased, my 353 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 3: wife is pleased. Everything else is gravy. 354 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 2: You said, it's not supposed to replace. Obviously it's to 355 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 2: replace the Bible. But do you find this is for 356 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 2: some and maybe even a culture that has an attention 357 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 2: span of a net. Do you find that maybe this 358 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 2: is would you recommend this as a more for some 359 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 2: digestible Bible to a certain degree. 360 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 3: Well, I definitely wouldn't call it a Bible. I make 361 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 3: it very clear, I'm not God. Jonathan Rumy who pleads 362 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 3: Jesus is not Jesus and the Chosen is not the Bible. 363 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 3: And the folks who will say you're not supposed to 364 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 3: add to the Bible, you guys are doing something wrong. 365 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 3: I've got very good news. If you go to your 366 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 3: local store and you pull out a Bible and you 367 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 3: open it up, you're not going to find some of 368 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 3: the characters from our show that we've added to the story. 369 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 3: The Bible has not been changed. The Bible has not 370 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 3: been attitude not been added to. We're not the Bible. Now. 371 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 3: When you talk about digestible, I would put it this way. 372 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 3: I would say that the Bible, for sorry, our show, 373 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 3: for many people, has cracked a code that has allowed 374 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 3: them to see the Bible, the actual Bible more clearly. 375 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 3: There's a lot of people who've read the stories and 376 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 3: they just haven't been able to see it, haven't been 377 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 3: able to fully understand it, because so many of these 378 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 3: stories are kind of out of context. So for some 379 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 3: people that's why they read a book where they go 380 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 3: to a church near a sermon, or they listen to 381 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,959 Speaker 3: music where it can provide some context, provide a spotlight 382 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 3: on some of the parts of Scripture that maybe they 383 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 3: haven't fully understood or connected with. So I don't think 384 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 3: I would say that the Chosen is a digestible Bible. 385 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 3: I would say that the Chosen makes the Bible more digestible, 386 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 3: maybe more more understandable to them in a way that 387 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 3: may they hadn't before. But we've not heard from pretty 388 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 3: much anybody who says, well, because of the Chosen, now 389 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 3: I don't have to read my Bible because I've got 390 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 3: the Chosen. I think that would be a problem, at 391 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 3: least for me. Unfortunately we're not hearing that. 392 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: I'm curious for you personally, has your faith your perspective 393 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: on religion changed at all by doing this series? How 394 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: have you grown or evolved as a Christian producing this? 395 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean when you're telling a story about Jesus 396 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 3: and you're tasked with what is now probably considered kind 397 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 3: of the definitive media account of the story of Jesus, 398 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 3: you should know who he is, you should understand it, right, 399 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 3: and so over the last eight years, I mean I've 400 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 3: been I've been in Christian circles and schools and my 401 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 3: family my whole life. I would say the thing that 402 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 3: has really changed the most for me is the realization 403 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 3: when you read scripture of the intimacy of Jesus. Jesus 404 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 3: was an intimate god. I think we sometimes see him 405 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 3: as like preaching to the masses, and a lot of 406 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 3: times in visual depictions, he's very pious. He's he's got 407 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 3: almost got a halo around him, and he's he's very formal, 408 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 3: and he's he's giving these truth bombs that that are 409 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 3: for everybody, which which I think there's there's truth to 410 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 3: that in some ways. But in the Gospels, you the 411 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,719 Speaker 3: overwhelming majority of encounters that he has with people are 412 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:38,719 Speaker 3: very personal, and whether he's healing you, rebuking you, or 413 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 3: calling you to follow him, Uh, it's always specific to 414 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 3: your heart need, right, It's it's so many stories in 415 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 3: the Gospels are him speaking specifically to the to the 416 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 3: needs or to the to the to the experience of 417 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 3: the person he's talking to. And so that for me 418 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 3: has been a real game changer. Is I think I've 419 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 3: always known that but not really experience. It is just 420 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 3: how personal and intimate of a god Jesus is, and 421 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 3: I think that's different from a lot of other portrayals 422 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 3: depictions understandings of who Jesus is. And I think that's 423 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 3: been key for a lot of people watching the show, 424 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 3: is that they've they're like, I felt like Jesus was 425 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 3: speaking to me. I felt like he was, you know, 426 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 3: he was addressing my questions or my struggles or my doubts. 427 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 3: And I think by telling the story through the eyes 428 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 3: of those who met him, including his detractors, I think 429 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 3: that's been a key factor in allowing the viewer to 430 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 3: see Jesus in that way as opposed to just this 431 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 3: distant figure. Right. I think that's a key thing, and 432 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 3: a religious figure, right, I think I think there's a 433 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 3: big difference between religion and relationship. I wouldn't consider myself 434 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 3: actually very religious. I've always seen religion is man's attempts 435 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 3: to reach God, you know, humankind's attempts to reach God. 436 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 3: And I think I think my faith is about God's 437 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 3: attempts to reach man, to preach humanity. And I think 438 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,239 Speaker 3: that's I think that's a key part of the show too. 439 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 3: Jesus came and he's pursuing you, as opposed to you 440 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 3: trying to pursue him, and hope you achieved some level 441 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 3: of connection that if you just work hard enough, and 442 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 3: you just do enough good, you'll get there. That's not 443 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 3: how I see it, and I think that's been helpful 444 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,360 Speaker 3: through the in my own personal life as well. 445 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:20,239 Speaker 2: Dallas, how difficult was it to cast Jesus? 446 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 3: So here's what's an interesting story that I'll tell quickly. 447 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 3: Is I actually cast Jonathan Rumy well before the show. 448 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 3: So over ten years ago, I was doing a short 449 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 3: film for my church or Good Friday services. I'd come 450 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 3: up with this idea of telling the story of the 451 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 3: two Thieves on the Cross. I'd heard a sermon from 452 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 3: someone who in Louisville's name is Kyle Eidelman. I was 453 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 3: visiting this church and he was talking about how in 454 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 3: the Gospels, in the story of the two thieves on 455 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 3: the Cross, one of them goes from mocking Jesus to 456 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 3: believing in him and wanting to be with him in 457 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 3: Paradise within like three verses. And so he's like, what 458 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 3: and in those hours that they were on the cross 459 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 3: that the Gospels don't really share where he goes from 460 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 3: mocking him to believing in him. And I just thought, Wow, 461 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 3: that's really fascinating, you know. So I made this short 462 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 3: film my co writer, and I wrote this short film 463 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 3: about what the two thieves on the cross might have 464 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 3: experienced before they got there. So Jesus shows up in 465 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 3: the short film in the last five minutes. So I'm 466 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 3: casting for this short film. And because Jesus is the 467 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 3: is not the main character of the short until the 468 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 3: last five minutes, all the people who were auditioning, all 469 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 3: the best actors were auditioning for the two thieves, and 470 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 3: the people who are auditioning for Jesus were just awful. 471 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 3: And so I cast the two thieves and I'm like, 472 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 3: I need I need someone to play Jesus who's halfway decent. 473 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 3: And so Jonathan Rumy had had auditioned for one of 474 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 3: the thieves, and I said, I'd like to see him 475 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 3: play Jesus. He's got a really cool quality to him, 476 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 3: let's see. And so within ten seconds of his audition 477 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 3: for Jesus, I saw what so many people have seen 478 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 3: from watching this show. I'm like, oh my gosh, this 479 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 3: guy is extraordinary. And so then when we film this 480 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 3: short film in a rock in Elgin, Illinois, uh his performance. 481 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 3: He shows up for the last five minutes and I'm like, 482 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,199 Speaker 3: while I'm directing him, I'm like, this guy captures the 483 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 3: like both the masculinity and the gentleness right that the 484 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 3: that there's there's a you know, so many portrayals or 485 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 3: one or the other. It's either he's he's a hippie 486 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,239 Speaker 3: or he's this distant figure or you know, he kind 487 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 3: of fits into one one one kind of personality trait. 488 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 3: And Jonathan's portrayal and I think, which fits with our writing, 489 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 3: kind of captures the wide spectrum of Jesus's personhood. And so, uh, 490 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 3: then we started doing a couple more short films than 491 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 3: yettes every year, and so it was like training ground 492 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 3: in many ways. And uh, and then when it came 493 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 3: time to that we had the opportunity to do this show. 494 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 3: I reached out to him like, hey, you want to 495 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 3: put the sandals back on? We got it. We got 496 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 3: an opportunity to do this on a on a bigger scale. 497 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 3: We've been We've been funded through through crowdfunding for four episodes. 498 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 3: Let's see how this goes. And so I think his 499 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 3: portrayal is you know, just objectively speaking as a as 500 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 3: a viewer myself, is is a is a game changer. 501 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 2: Dallas, did you really say to him you want to 502 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 2: put the sandals back. 503 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 3: I did, I did. He will very that's his story 504 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 3: as well. 505 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness that I love that showed up to 506 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: be a thief. 507 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 2: You're Jesus. 508 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: You're Jesus, and you're going to stay Jesus for several seasons. Now, 509 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: I'm curious, Dallas, in a world where we have become 510 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: more secular, where there are obviously so many different competing religions, 511 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: and you've got these big streaming services choosing what type 512 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: of edgy programming they want to bring their their viewers 513 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 1: and their audience. Was it hard getting Prime Video, Amazon 514 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: Prime to sign up for this? Like? How did you 515 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: get something that was a passion project up to actually 516 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: be seen on such a huge streaming service and have 517 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: obviously the success it's had. But I'm curious what the 518 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 1: process was like. Was was it David versus Goliath? 519 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 4: Or was this something that actually made sense to big 520 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 4: media giants? 521 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 2: It was nice? 522 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 4: Yeah you like what I did there? 523 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very nice. So when it first started, nobody, 524 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 3: I mean, look, I'm coming off a career failure. No 525 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 3: one's lining up around the block to do a Jesus show. 526 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 3: The idea came to me while I was doing another 527 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 3: short film for my church's Christmas Eve service. So this 528 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 3: comes after my big failure. I don't think. I don't 529 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 3: know if I'm ever going to make another movie. But 530 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 3: I did have this script that I had written with 531 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 3: my co writer a year and a half previously, about 532 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 3: the short film about the Birth of Christ from the 533 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,120 Speaker 3: perspective of the shepherds, and so we kind of pulled 534 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 3: that off the shelf figuratively, and I went to my 535 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 3: church again, I'm like, what do you guys think of 536 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 3: something like this? They think it's a great idea. So 537 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 3: on my friend's farm in Illinois, twenty minutes from my house, 538 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 3: we filmed this short film about the birth of Christ. 539 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 3: And while I'm making it is when I came up 540 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 3: with the idea for this show. I was binge watching 541 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 3: the wire at the time, the HBO's show from years back, 542 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 3: The WHI, which is an extraordinary show, not a very 543 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 3: Jesus he show. They say the word Jesus a lot, 544 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 3: but not in a respectful way. And so I'm watching it, 545 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,239 Speaker 3: I'm going, this is really fascinating. There's never been a 546 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 3: multi season show about Jesus before. There's been movies There's 547 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 3: been mini series, but never a show where you can, 548 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 3: you know, follow these characters from episode to episode, season 549 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 3: to season. And The Wire has this really unique approach. 550 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 3: You see the people on the streets, you see the criminals, 551 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 3: you see the cops, you see the mayor's office, you 552 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 3: see the press from all these different angles. I thought 553 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 3: that'd be cool to tell a story from the perspective 554 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 3: of the followers of Christ, but also the enemies people 555 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 3: in the Roman you know, the Romans, the Pharisees, the 556 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 3: religious leaders. So, like I said, there's no one lining 557 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 3: her up around the block to do that, and I'm 558 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 3: coming off a career failure. Well, that short film was 559 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 3: used as a became essentially a pilot episode. We put 560 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 3: it on social media and did crowdfund because I knew 561 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 3: no one, no studio was going to fund this, and 562 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 3: so we gets crowdfunded and I'm thinking, this isn't going 563 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 3: to work. It was an idea from another small streaming 564 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 3: platform at the time, Angel Studios. They had the idea 565 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 3: for this, and I thought, this isn't going to work. 566 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 3: You know, it's an eighteen minute short film and the 567 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 3: all time crowdfunding record was five and a half million 568 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 3: dollars from projects that had huge fan bases already, I 569 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 3: had no fan base but five loaves, two fish. I'm 570 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 3: not worried about the results. We'll see what happens. Well. 571 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 3: Fast forward a few months later, ten million dollars comes 572 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 3: in from sixteen thousand people all over the world based 573 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 3: on this little short film that I did on my 574 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 3: friend's farm, shattering the all time crowdfunding record, giving us 575 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 3: the opportunity to do season one. So we just did 576 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 3: it own, on our own right then we put it 577 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 3: out there and no one shows up at first, and 578 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 3: we had a hard time getting viewers. And finally when 579 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 3: covid hit and we decided to do eight episodes, you know, 580 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 3: one at a time on YouTube live streams, and I 581 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 3: just said, look, we're just going to give it to 582 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 3: you for free for a few weeks. It's covid. You know, 583 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 3: we're all scared. Let's just watch this show for free. 584 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 3: And here's the thing. If you if you love this show, 585 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 3: and if you want us to keep going, you know 586 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 3: you can you can give in this way, but it's 587 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 3: free for now. A couple of nights into it, we 588 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 3: had quadrupled our income, and I just said my wife 589 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 3: and I just said, you know what, we just need 590 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 3: to make this show free forever, and we'll just trust 591 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 3: the outcome. So we decided to make the show free. 592 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 3: It explodes, that's when it's that was kind of the 593 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 3: first tipping point. So that's when Prime and and all 594 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 3: of the platforms they start to see it. And at 595 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 3: each company, in this case at Prime Video, there's a 596 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 3: woman named Tracy Blackwell who had just joined the Amazon 597 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 3: and they had said to her, you know what, you know, 598 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 3: what are you What are some of your ideas and 599 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 3: you have any big ideas? And she's like, the chosen 600 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 3: you had got to see this show. We have got 601 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 3: to get this show. So eventually all the platforms, all 602 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 3: the bit you know, the major streamers, we had seen 603 00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 3: the audience we'd built, seen the success of the show. 604 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 3: So uh no, it was not David and Goliath by 605 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 3: the time they came to us saying we want to 606 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 3: I mean, by by that point, it was an easy conversation. Yes, 607 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 3: so uh and and that's I don't even say that 608 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 3: as a criticism. I mean, you know, I'm a nobody 609 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 3: that there's no reason to pursue a show like mine. 610 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 3: But by the time that the streamers were interested. We 611 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 3: had had, you know, over one hundred million viewers and 612 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 3: and the show now Tracy at Amazon, she had seen 613 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 3: it from the beginning. She knew this was going to 614 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 3: be big, but but it was. It was a very 615 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 3: easy conversation after after that point. 616 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 2: Not a David versus Glide ended up being Goliath versus Goliath. Yes, 617 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 2: you build it. That's actually yeah, if you build it, 618 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 2: they will come. 619 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 3: I want to ask. 620 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 2: Rose and I when we were in our ABC days, 621 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 2: we used to do a segment every week called Faith Friday, 622 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 2: and we loved it and without question, Rose, I'm not 623 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 2: overstating here, it was our favorite segment every We brought 624 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 2: on faith leaders every single week, all different denominations and 625 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 2: just ask them about what's going on in the world 626 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 2: and to just give words of encouragement to our viewers 627 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 2: on a frighting when it's always a difficult time, difficult week. 628 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 2: And I'm kind of asking you and putting you in 629 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 2: that position. I know you're not a pastor and you're 630 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 2: not here to convert anybody, but you're someone who is 631 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 2: very steeped in faith in what you do, and you're 632 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 2: a believer, and so I would just ask you if 633 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 2: you can for a moment. I know you've thought about 634 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 2: what's going on in the world, from what we're seeing, 635 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 2: at the difficult everybody's having, Just could you pass along 636 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 2: just from whatever is in you and in your heart, 637 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 2: from what you know, just words of encouragement in times 638 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 2: that are so difficult. And I know it's for you 639 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 2: to tell people to turn to God, but maybe turn 640 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 2: to God, and maybe not just I'm always curious to 641 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 2: talk to We are always curious and to hear from 642 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 2: folks who are that steeped in faith, to just give 643 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 2: some words or encouragement at a time that can be 644 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 2: discouraging for us. 645 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 3: All absolutely going through now tribalism, whether it's all over 646 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 3: the world or even here in the United States. We're 647 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 3: conditioned right now to find ourselves into these insular tribes, 648 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 3: and we're conditioned now to immediately, if not hate, strongly 649 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,719 Speaker 3: distrust and dislike anyone who's not in our tribe. And 650 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 3: that has created in ourselves an inherent dislike or distrust 651 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 3: of others, but it's also created a dislike or distrust 652 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 3: towards us. There's a lot of people who I don't 653 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 3: who I know would prefer not to just be in 654 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 3: in some tribe where they're only friends or family are 655 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,959 Speaker 3: the people who agree with them, because for a lot 656 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 3: of people, they don't have a lot of friends or family, 657 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 3: and so times like this are extraordinarily challenging, they're confusing. Well, 658 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 3: two thousand years ago, it was the exact same situation. 659 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 3: People were divided into tribes. There was a lot of hatred, 660 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 3: there was a lot of oppression, and Jesus came in 661 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 3: the midst of all of that, and he came to 662 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 3: a group of people who were like, Okay, great, now 663 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 3: you're here, the Messiah's here. We're going to conquer our oppressors. 664 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 3: We're going to defeat our enemies. We're going to win right, 665 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,359 Speaker 3: and we're gonna instead of being oppressed, we're now going 666 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,399 Speaker 3: to be able to dominate. We're going to be able 667 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 3: to have the victory and freedom and all of that. 668 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,320 Speaker 3: And he said, yeah, no, actually, that's not why I'm here. 669 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 3: You actually will probably still suffer. In fact, because of 670 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,399 Speaker 3: following me, you might suffer even more than others. You're 671 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 3: going to be persecuted, there will be wars, there will 672 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 3: be persecution. That's always going to be here. At one 673 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 3: point he even said, there will always be the poor. 674 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 3: So he talked about that until he comes back, until 675 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 3: we're you know, on this side of heaven, on this 676 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 3: side of eternity, there will be suffering. And so he said, 677 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 3: I'm here for your hearts. I'm here for you to 678 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 3: actually love your enemies, be kind to those who who 679 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 3: persecute you, turn the other cheek. There is a way 680 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 3: of responding to what we're going through that, on the surface, 681 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 3: makes no sense. That seems to be in contrast to 682 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 3: how we would typically choose to be. We want to win, 683 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 3: we want to get revenge. And I think a good 684 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 3: question to ask all of us is how's that working out? Right? 685 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 3: It's not working very well. It hasn't been working for 686 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 3: thousands and thousands of years, And so I would encourage you, 687 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 3: whether you're a believer or not, the teachings of Jesus 688 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 3: might actually be the only answer. They might be the 689 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 3: only way because winning, overcoming, defeating is you know, fighting 690 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 3: is just doesn't seem to be working very well. And 691 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 3: even when people finally do win and they do get 692 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 3: the power, they always tend to screw it up. They 693 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 3: always tend to be impacted in some way by their 694 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 3: own flesh, by their own ego, and so service to others, 695 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 3: love of even your enemies might just be the answer 696 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 3: that that might conflict with our own egos and flesh, 697 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 3: but it is a it is a game changer, I believe, 698 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,879 Speaker 3: and I think that the story from two thousand years 699 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,720 Speaker 3: ago might be the answer to the story today. 700 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 4: That's beautiful. That's beautiful, Jenkins. You might if the producing 701 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 4: thing doesn't work out, I could see you in a 702 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 4: pulpit one day, one day soon. 703 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 3: So well, fortunately for for for people in the congregants, 704 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 3: the producing thing is working out. I'm not going to 705 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:46,239 Speaker 3: be in the pulpit any. 706 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 4: We want to wish you all. I know that you 707 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,760 Speaker 4: don't want to take the personal congratulations for the success 708 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,760 Speaker 4: of the show, but certainly you are telling a story 709 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 4: in a way that has resonated with people around the world. 710 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 4: Your bringing a story to them that maybe they're seeing 711 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 4: for the first time, or they're seeing from a much 712 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 4: more relatable perspective. So, Dallas Jenkins, thank you. So it 713 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 4: was such an honor to get to talk with you, 714 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,479 Speaker 4: to get to meet you and to hear and see 715 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 4: what you're doing and how you're changing the world for good. 716 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 2: We need more. 717 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 3: Thank you so much more well, and I appreciate and 718 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,239 Speaker 3: I appreciate you amplifying those voices for good as well. 719 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 3: It really means a lot. I appreciate you guys having 720 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 3: on your show. Thank you.