Speaker 1: We were standing at the bar and there was a
Speaker 1: guy like really pushing me, like really like shoving in
Speaker 1: my space, and I was like trying to like kind
Speaker 1: of elbow him back, but not really. And then I
Speaker 1: turned to the new people that I had just met,
Speaker 1: and I was like, you were just standing next to
Speaker 1: somebody at a bar and they're crowding you on your
Speaker 1: space and you just look at your wine glass and
Speaker 1: think what would happen if I just smashed this on
Speaker 1: the bar and then stabbed the person behind me? Really
Speaker 1: like what would happen?
Speaker 2: And they looked at me like I, Oh, no, she's psycho.
Speaker 1: Oh no, psycho? Yeah, and they I'm not even kidding.
Speaker 1: They were like ah. And then they turned in toward
Speaker 1: each other to converse, and I was like, oh it failed.
Speaker 3: Better More Better, Hello, Hi, Welcome to More Better, a
Speaker 3: podcast where we stop pretending to have it all together
Speaker 3: and embrace the journey of becoming a little more better
Speaker 3: every day, or.
Speaker 2: At least trying to. That small supermaro.
Speaker 4: And that is the one and only Stephanie Beatrice.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, stop you go.
Speaker 4: No, I'm here for it.
Speaker 2: How are you doing?
Speaker 4: I am okay.
Speaker 2: Your whole family has the flu. My entire family came
Speaker 2: down with the flu this past weekend. I am shockingly
Speaker 2: still healthy and imbelievable think out of the window of
Speaker 2: possibly contamination. Uh it was bad. It was really really bad.
Speaker 2: There was yeah fevers and chills and throwing.
Speaker 4: Up and uh yeah it was. It was bad, man.
Speaker 2: And I'm I'm so grateful that I happened to be
Speaker 2: home for this, because David was literally in bed for
Speaker 2: two days, and I don't know what he would have done.
Speaker 2: If I was in Atlanta, he would have been like
Speaker 2: parenting from the floor, like he was out. And I
Speaker 2: just kept thinking, oh my god, if I wasn't here,
Speaker 2: if I was in Atlanta, like so you know, silver lining,
Speaker 2: I was here.
Speaker 4: I was able to take care of everyone.
Speaker 2: I lysold like a fucking maniac and like washed hands
Speaker 2: and like because I was like I cannot go down.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm fucking exhausted, though. Bro, what a
Speaker 1: what a little break, what a vacation?
Speaker 4: I know, welcome home, mom?
Speaker 2: What a treat?
Speaker 4: What a treat? How are you?
Speaker 2: We saw coyote on our.
Speaker 1: Street, I know, yeah, and our dog was like out
Speaker 1: in the yard like peeing, because get in a house.
Speaker 2: I like, get your ass in the house, sterrifying, terrifying. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's what's been going on here.
Speaker 3: More Better.
Speaker 2: Today's episode topic comes from a listener, which is really nice.
Speaker 2: We love these.
Speaker 1: Emails and like dms and all that stuff. So if
Speaker 1: you need help with something in your life or you
Speaker 1: have a suggestion for a future episode, email us at
Speaker 1: More Better pod at gmail dot com. You can also
Speaker 1: include a voice note to be featured on the pod.
Speaker 1: So we have an email today from Xander. Great name Xander,
Speaker 1: by the way, I love your name. Okay, Hi, Stephanie
Speaker 1: and Melissa. I'm Xander from Ohio, and I just want
Speaker 1: to say how much I've been loving the pod so far.
Speaker 1: Oh that's nice.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: It really has become a highlight of my week, and
Speaker 1: it's nice to listen to something that feels like friends
Speaker 1: talking to each other.
Speaker 2: That's great.
Speaker 1: I just graduated college and I'm pursuing certifications in my field.
Speaker 1: But I'm finding that I'm not naturally good at everything. Shocker,
Speaker 1: a surprise, surprise, and then none of us are.
Speaker 2: I feel a little bit like an imposter.
Speaker 1: Sometimes My question is how do I get How should
Speaker 1: I get more better at being okay with being bad
Speaker 1: at things when I first start out, And how have
Speaker 1: you all dealt with feeling imposter syndrome? The feeling of
Speaker 1: imposter syndrome? Oh, that's really nice, best Alexander ooh cool
Speaker 1: spelled A L E K Z A N D R.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, all right, well you're already more better than
Speaker 1: us at names imposter syndrome. Uh okay, So what does
Speaker 1: that mean to you, Melissa?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved I think this is such a great
Speaker 2: topic and question. Obviously, I think we've all had feelings
Speaker 2: of imposter syndrome, but and also like just the thing
Speaker 2: of like being bad, like being okay with being bad
Speaker 2: at something. Yeah, that's really interesting to me. I've definitely
Speaker 2: had that, like.
Speaker 4: All the first season of Brooklyn nine nine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, talk to me about seasons one through five.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean definitely.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: For me, it was like the most I think intense
Speaker 2: first season, just feeling like I didn't know what I
Speaker 2: was doing. I didn't know if I was good at it,
Speaker 2: at it being comedy and landing I would get I've
Speaker 2: talked about it before, how I would like have panic
Speaker 2: when I got the joke lines. I wanted to have
Speaker 2: all the setups, because I felt like that was I
Speaker 2: was more comfortable there, like lobbing something to someone else,
Speaker 2: like someone else do the funny part, and I'll just
Speaker 2: like toss you the ball. And I don't know if
Speaker 2: you remember our producing director first couple of seasons, Craig's
Speaker 2: Zig and I used to first season, after every take,
Speaker 2: I would look for Craig through the crowd and then
Speaker 2: he would just give me a little fun thumbs up. Oh,
Speaker 2: that's so nice.
Speaker 4: A generous person.
Speaker 2: Such a generous person were in Trash the first season
Speaker 2: I was, and I was just so unsure of everything
Speaker 2: I was doing. And then he literally became like a
Speaker 2: crutch like for me. If I didn't he see him
Speaker 2: and I didn't get my little thumbs up, I would
Speaker 2: like spiral wow and yeah, and I just you know,
Speaker 2: And then the funny thing is later I remember, actually
Speaker 2: it was with a moment I had with Chelsea Peretti.
Speaker 2: There was a moment where I was with her and
Speaker 2: Jordan and I want to say it was even like
Speaker 2: at the Golden Globes or something, and which is such
Speaker 2: a weird thing to say, Sorry, that was just the setting.
Speaker 2: But and they were complimenting me on the work I
Speaker 2: was doing on the show, and I was like so perplexed,
Speaker 2: like I couldn't even receive the compliments, and I was like, guys,
Speaker 2: i don't know what the fuck I'm doing. I'm just
Speaker 2: trying to do different things on every take because I
Speaker 2: feel like everything I do is bad and I don't
Speaker 2: know what I'm doing and it's you know, I just
Speaker 2: feel so lost and I'm so fucking nervous all the time.
Speaker 4: And they just looked at me and they were like.
Speaker 2: Like almost like, Babe, that's how you do comedy, Like
Speaker 2: you just try a bunch of different shit, and they
Speaker 2: kind of just like gave me this assurance of like
Speaker 2: the way I was doing it was actually the way
Speaker 2: I should be doing it. And something about that interaction
Speaker 2: that moment kind of gave me some extra confidence.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, I'll.
Speaker 1: Just like, oh, my two of some of the funniest people,
Speaker 1: Yes exactly.
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, Chelsea Pretty and Jordan Pee will tell
Speaker 2: you you're doing okay.
Speaker 4: You're like you're doing good. Maybe I'm doing okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's been your experience with some of this? I
Speaker 2: think imposter syndrome is pretty normal for everybody because it's
Speaker 2: like you know, not to get to wu wu. But
Speaker 2: all of it is based in like our ideas of
Speaker 2: like ourselves and how we how we appear to others,
Speaker 2: and our need for And I'm including myself in this.
Speaker 1: I'm not being like, oh need you know, our need
Speaker 1: for approval from others and how that makes up you know,
Speaker 1: a large part of who we are as people and
Speaker 1: as artists.
Speaker 2: But you know, every but I think everybody feels this way.
Speaker 1: Everybody feels there's something happens and I don't know when, right,
Speaker 1: because I think little kids have it too. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: there's something they're human about wanting to be a part
Speaker 1: of the group and look like you belong to the group.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: That's why kids copy adults around them. It's why kids
Speaker 1: copy older kids. It's why teenage girls are so horrible
Speaker 1: to each other sometimes because they're all desiring and wanting
Speaker 1: to belong. Yeah, some of them, some of them. Some
Speaker 1: of us have stronger thinking about myself as a teenage girls,
Speaker 1: some of us have stronger role models in that like
Speaker 1: meaning that not that not that all role models aren't strong,
Speaker 1: but I think that they're something that happens, Like where
Speaker 1: if the adults around you are like, you are inherently good.
Speaker 1: You don't need to be or do anything just by
Speaker 1: being yourself. You're fantastic and great and you're very, very loved.
Speaker 1: And if you have that, I think a lot from
Speaker 1: the time that you're little you probably died, didn't, but
Speaker 1: you probably grow up feeling kind of like I'm pretty deese.
Speaker 1: Like as a person, you know, like I'm pretty decee.
Speaker 1: And and I think, you know, not to put too
Speaker 1: fine a point on it, but I think a lot
Speaker 1: of men grow up.
Speaker 2: Kind of being like I'm pretty decee.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: That's why you see a lot of men enter spaces
Speaker 1: where maybe they aren't the best, or aren't experienced, or
Speaker 1: aren't whatever, and they're just like, well, I belong here.
Speaker 2: I belong in the space, right And.
Speaker 1: Because it been told that they belong in spaces from
Speaker 1: the time that they were young, they don't ever remember
Speaker 1: not belonging in spaces. So if you're someone that hasn't
Speaker 1: grown up that way, then when you get into spaces,
Speaker 1: you automatically start feeling like you don't belong You're.
Speaker 2: Not supposed to be here. You are You've somehow managed
Speaker 2: to convince the people in power that you belong here
Speaker 2: by some strange part of your brain that somehow told
Speaker 2: you that it was acceptable for you to even, you know,
Speaker 2: in our case audition, how dare you have the audacity
Speaker 2: to audition for this?
Speaker 1: Like meanwhile, now you've gotten it and you are fucked
Speaker 1: because you do not measure up right. But I think
Speaker 1: the thing that I've started to hold on to as
Speaker 1: an adult, even when it gives me butterflies, is like,
Speaker 1: but there is some small part of me that was like,
Speaker 1: I belong here. There is some flame inside me that
Speaker 1: I can continue to feed that is like bitch.
Speaker 2: You funny, you know, like or like you know.
Speaker 1: I remember I remember auditioning for Rosa Diaz and I
Speaker 1: was like, what do I wear to this?
Speaker 2: Like what do I What do I wear? And I thought, oh,
Speaker 2: I know? And I put together these big black boots
Speaker 2: that I had that were like platform, really sexy boots
Speaker 2: that I had gotten in like a gift exchange or something,
Speaker 2: or a clothing exchange, black jeans, really tight black jeans
Speaker 2: that I had left over from a thing that I
Speaker 2: had done, and a leather jacket that someone had given me.
Speaker 4: And I was like, who am I in this outfit?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Because like, not the way that I thought of myself.
Speaker 1: I didn't think of myself as like was sort of
Speaker 1: sexy and tough. That was not me at all, But
Speaker 1: it was her on the page, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I could do that, and I lived there's some flame
Speaker 1: in the back of my mind that I was like,
Speaker 1: I could do it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Or speaking of imposter syndrome and going back to what
Speaker 2: you were saying about not having role models or not
Speaker 2: having the example that made me.
Speaker 4: That reminded me of that.
Speaker 2: Great quote that America Frarra has about imposter syndrome where
Speaker 2: she essentially said like she had this realization at some
Speaker 2: point that she feels strange in new spaces because she's
Speaker 2: often the first person like her there totally, and like
Speaker 2: that's all it is, right, Like, if you've never seen
Speaker 2: someone who looks like you or has your same background
Speaker 2: or whatever, it is, right, because sometimes it's superficial or
Speaker 2: racial identity, and sometimes it's just our upbringing or our
Speaker 2: family dynamic, whatever it is. And if we've never seen
Speaker 2: someone like us doing the thing that we're trying to do,
Speaker 2: you feel like the first You feel like there's nothing
Speaker 2: to compare yourself to. Right, and that I think is
Speaker 2: is often where those feelings of imposter syndrome come from.
Speaker 4: And but I love the way she kind.
Speaker 2: Of flipped it of just like, oh, it's just that
Speaker 2: maybe this space hasn't been open to someone like me,
Speaker 2: and maybe this is you know, maybe I am the
Speaker 2: first in some sense, but that doesn't mean that I'm
Speaker 2: not qualified.
Speaker 4: That doesn't mean I'm not capable, that doesn't mean you know, yeah, and.
Speaker 2: It just kind of like breaks down some of those
Speaker 2: walls and that idea of being an impostor. Right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just like it's just new. It's just different.
Speaker 2: It's you know, and you don't have someone to kind
Speaker 2: of just hold in your mind of just you know,
Speaker 2: well they did it, so I can do it. You know.
Speaker 2: It's like oftentimes when we're trying something new or intimidating,
Speaker 2: you know, there are times where we have that person like, well,
Speaker 2: they did it, so I know I can do it.
Speaker 2: But when we don't have that, it's just that much
Speaker 2: more overwhelming, that much more intimidating. And it's just all
Speaker 2: fucking fear, right, It's all like resistance in our brains, like,
Speaker 2: and it's such a human thing.
Speaker 4: And I think.
Speaker 2: Everyone no matter where you're from or what you look like,
Speaker 2: has had that feeling before. It's like such a human
Speaker 2: feeling to me. Yeah, it's like I think the goal
Speaker 2: isn't you know, eradicating it, because that's not possible, right, No,
Speaker 2: but I do. I guess the goal is like.
Speaker 1: Doing it anyway or doing it, you know, in terms
Speaker 1: of in terms of what Xander's asking about. It's like,
Speaker 1: I'm trying this new stuff. I'm trying new things and
Speaker 1: I'm shocker, I'm not good at everything that I try
Speaker 1: right right, And like it's a sucky feeling because it's
Speaker 1: embarrassing to not be kind of stuff. You know, it's
Speaker 1: really really hard, embarrassing, and it sucks to fail, Like
Speaker 1: it sucks to try and then fail because like most
Speaker 1: of the time somebody's watching, you know, in the case
Speaker 1: of a joke, it doesn't land and nobody laughs.
Speaker 2: You know, right Faday.
Speaker 1: I went out the other night Saturday, and we went
Speaker 1: to see Kumasi Washington play.
Speaker 2: It's this incredible jazz.
Speaker 1: Musician and his band and it was really great and
Speaker 1: it was in this cool new space. It was very
Speaker 1: like cool so la right, and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna be myself in this space, like I
Speaker 1: don't I don't need to compete. It's not about that.
Speaker 1: I'm just here with my husband and we're having a
Speaker 1: great time. We saw some friends and then I met
Speaker 1: some new people and we were standing at the bar
Speaker 1: and there's a guy like really pushing me, like really
Speaker 1: like shoving in my space, and I was like trying
Speaker 1: to like kind of elbow him back, but not really.
Speaker 2: And then I turned to the new.
Speaker 1: People that I had just met, and I was like,
Speaker 1: you were just standing next to somebody at a bar
Speaker 1: and they're crowding you in your space and you just
Speaker 1: look at your wine glass and think what would happen
Speaker 1: if I just smashed this on the bar and then.
Speaker 2: Stabbed the person behind me, really like what would happen?
Speaker 2: And they looked at me like I, Oh no, she's psycho.
Speaker 2: Oh no, psycho? Yeah, and they I'm not even kidding,
Speaker 2: they were like and then they turned in toward each
Speaker 2: other to converse, and I was like, oh, it failed
Speaker 2: that way.
Speaker 4: That it didn't land for whatever, It just needed context.
Speaker 2: It just you know, if you would said that in
Speaker 2: front of me, I would have died laughing. I mean
Speaker 2: also you know, maybe that they're not funny, maybe they're
Speaker 2: not maybe maybe they're not like yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 2: I don't know the answer.
Speaker 1: But in that moment, I was like, oh, well, you know,
Speaker 1: whereas like a few years ago, ten years ago, I
Speaker 1: might have been like, oh my god, that's so mortifying
Speaker 1: these people, Brad, it's so stupid.
Speaker 4: Whatever.
Speaker 1: I think some of the imposter syndrome stuff is time
Speaker 1: trying plus time meaning try, you try, you try, you try,
Speaker 1: and the more that you try, the more you go Like,
Speaker 1: some of the stuff is just not gonna land, and
Speaker 1: and it's less and less uh embarrassing and painful the
Speaker 1: more that you try. I would assume I'm not I
Speaker 1: don't play sports.
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not athletic.
Speaker 1: But I would assume that it is similar in terms
Speaker 1: of like training for something, you know.
Speaker 2: And oh, well, I guess I am a little more
Speaker 2: athletic than I thought. You know, you're selling yourself yourself short.
Speaker 4: You are athletic when it turns, when it comes.
Speaker 2: Maybe you're not sporty, but you're not. Yeah, those are
Speaker 2: two different things. Those are two different things. I'm not sporty,
Speaker 2: but I'm athletic.
Speaker 1: Practicing meaning like, uh, doing like fight scenes or like
Speaker 1: practicing stuff like that. The beginning of doing that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff was really scary to me because.
Speaker 2: Like and sometimes I couldn't get it.
Speaker 1: Do you remember that time we were shooting that thing
Speaker 1: in the arcade and I had to like grab a
Speaker 1: gun a certain way and I just like could not
Speaker 1: get it.
Speaker 2: Do you remember this?
Speaker 4: I don't remember.
Speaker 1: We were in that weird arcade slash go kart place
Speaker 1: like way out yeah, yeah, and like there was some
Speaker 1: gun move that I had to do, and they taught
Speaker 1: it to me like right on set, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm never fucking gonna get this, and I didn't.
Speaker 2: I couldn't get it. And like I think we did.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: They cut it together great and it looked right right,
Speaker 2: But at.
Speaker 1: The time I was like, oh, dying inside because all
Speaker 1: of you guys were there and I was like, I
Speaker 1: can't get this and I look stupid. Ultimately, it was fine,
Speaker 1: They're not going to make me look stupid on the show, right,
Speaker 1: And ultimately I think the thing that happens is we
Speaker 1: are so judgmental of ourselves, yeah, mental of ourselves, and
Speaker 1: some of the judgment is okay, meaning like some of
Speaker 1: the I could have done that better, How could.
Speaker 4: I work that joke better? Or what would you know?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 2: What could I do better next time? Like what was
Speaker 2: the feedback that I got from my professors, or what
Speaker 2: was the feedback that I got from you know, whoever
Speaker 2: I'm dealing with on a person personal basis in my
Speaker 2: new job or whatever. Let me apply some of that
Speaker 2: feedback and see how I can get better at this thing. Yes,
Speaker 2: but that's different than I'm so stupid. I'm so bad
Speaker 2: at this, I'll never be good at this. I should
Speaker 2: just stop trying. Yeah, there's there. It's really hard to
Speaker 2: grow from that mindset. Yeah, and I would venture to
Speaker 2: guess that Xander is probably pretty talented. Yeah. And I
Speaker 2: think the thing that happens when you're naturally good at
Speaker 2: something like you know, and I think we feel this
Speaker 2: in our job, right, We've always been naturally good at acting,
Speaker 2: and then when something comes up like a fight choreography
Speaker 2: or a gun move or I never fucking could do
Speaker 2: handcuffs on Brooklyn.
Speaker 4: I was so bad at handcuffs. I could never fucking
Speaker 4: do them.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: It really like throws you because you're like, wait, there's
Speaker 2: something I'm not that I'm not getting right away. There's
Speaker 2: something that's not clicking right away. But the truth is,
Speaker 2: most of the time, for most people, that's how it goes.
Speaker 2: Like my kids are starting, you know, are getting into
Speaker 2: like sports, and they're getting to those ages and uh,
Speaker 2: like little Axel has like started jiu jitsu and now
Speaker 2: he's really into it. But in the beginning he was
Speaker 2: really nervous, he was really shy, and he kept saying,
Speaker 2: I'm not good at it.
Speaker 4: I'm not good at it.
Speaker 2: And I was like, well, no one's ever good at
Speaker 2: anything when they first started. You've never done it before,
Speaker 2: You've never done it. This is your first time. So like,
Speaker 2: there is something about when you are bad at something,
Speaker 2: you gotta gotta get your mind right. You got to
Speaker 2: like stay in that I'm learning, I'm trying something that's hard,
Speaker 2: which is good for me, and being bad at this
Speaker 2: is actually going to make the things I'm already good
Speaker 2: at better and that there will be growth. If you
Speaker 2: can keep your mind right, there can be growth. You
Speaker 2: can get better at the thing that you're attempting to do.
Speaker 2: And it might be a slow might, you might struggle
Speaker 2: through it. It might not be as great as your
Speaker 2: other strengths. But I really believe that, like, if you
Speaker 2: stick with it, if you accept those mistakes, like you
Speaker 2: were saying, you just like kind of roll with it,
Speaker 2: keep checking in, keep challenging yourself to improve, not make
Speaker 2: the same mistakes over and over. Yeah, and just see
Speaker 2: it as like a growth thing. At the end, you
Speaker 2: probably will be pretty decent that the thing you started
Speaker 2: out being bad at, and then the other things that
Speaker 2: you are already good at will improve also, like especially
Speaker 2: if they're all related. Again, we don't know what the
Speaker 2: field is, but you know, just me fumbling with frickin'
Speaker 2: handcuffs for eight seasons of Brooklyn never never got them never,
Speaker 2: God no, I would hold them behind them. I would
Speaker 2: always just make this motion and then just hold them back.
Speaker 4: That's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 2: I got real good at faking it, Yeah, real good
Speaker 2: at figuring out where the camera is, how I can
Speaker 2: fake it, how it can make it look like I
Speaker 2: clicked that shit so fast. Yeah. I never did, ever did.
Speaker 2: But I walked away with a new skill of being
Speaker 2: able to fake that shit so good. Yeah, man. And
Speaker 2: that's like that's the I mean, that's the other thing
Speaker 2: is like the narrow idea of what is supposed to happen,
Speaker 2: the narrow, narrow ideas of how this is supposed to go,
Speaker 2: and how you were a success at this. Right, if
Speaker 2: you measured your success on whether or not at the
Speaker 2: end of eight seasons you could actually do those handcuffs,
Speaker 2: you'd still be fucking pissed off at yourself. But if
Speaker 2: you measure your success about like, well, does it look
Speaker 2: like I know what I'm doing as a cop on camera?
Speaker 2: And was anybody distracted during the scene? And is the
Speaker 2: storyline still going? The answer is yes to all of
Speaker 2: those things. So yeah, you were success.
Speaker 1: It's sometimes about how you're looking at the thing, like
Speaker 1: you were saying, and my picture incrementally getting better at
Speaker 1: this thing? Am I Maybe you're not like the best
Speaker 1: in your fucking class, but maybe you had fun. I
Speaker 1: mean I took a flower arranging class and ikebana class
Speaker 1: once and like, oh.
Speaker 4: I remember when you did that.
Speaker 2: I was not good at it, but it was fun.
Speaker 2: Like the teacher would come around and be like no,
Speaker 2: and she would she would take her We had these
Speaker 2: shears that we had to get that were like super
Speaker 2: super sharp cutting shears, and literally she would come around
Speaker 2: and like chop the heads off my flowers. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: take it things out, because she just was not having
Speaker 2: my arrangement.
Speaker 4: She was like, you are a wasting space here.
Speaker 2: Basically, she was like, you're really bad at this, thank
Speaker 2: you for trying. And I was probably pretty bad, but
Speaker 2: like I had fun. It was just a community college
Speaker 2: class and it was really fun. I mean I didn't
Speaker 2: I didn't need to be the best in was I
Speaker 2: a little jealous, Yeah, I was a little jealous of
Speaker 2: some of the women that were in my class that
Speaker 2: were really good at it, but like, oh, I just
Speaker 2: wanted to have a good time and have fun. I
Speaker 2: would take another class like that. I mean it was fun. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And there's.
Speaker 4: Something to be said too.
Speaker 2: I think about these experiences, whether it's work or it's hobby.
Speaker 2: I think doing things that we're bad at is so
Speaker 2: good for like grit and resilience. You know, like if
Speaker 2: we just did shit that we were good at all
Speaker 2: the fucking time, first of all, I think we'd just
Speaker 2: be monsters.
Speaker 4: We'd be like narcissistic. I mean, you've met these people.
Speaker 2: You have met these people, right that never attempted, never
Speaker 2: took any risks, never attempted to do anything they were
Speaker 2: bad at, right, and talk a lot of shit about
Speaker 2: a lot of shit. They have no frustration tolerance, right,
Speaker 2: They're like the type of person that melts down and
Speaker 2: the second they can't get their way. God. And so
Speaker 2: I think there is something to be said about this
Speaker 2: practice of like doing something that you're not good at
Speaker 2: and it just building resilience in you and curate. And
Speaker 2: I mean it's so cliche to say, but like I
Speaker 2: really think it's true. Like we have to expe it's failure,
Speaker 2: We have to experience being bad at something. It grounds us,
Speaker 2: it humbles us. Those are all good things, right, and
Speaker 2: it makes us tougher, makes it tougher. Like the more
Speaker 2: you do it, the next time you're faced with something
Speaker 2: that you're not good at, you're gonna be less afraid
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 4: You're gonna have.
Speaker 2: Less feelings of imposter syndrome. You're just gonna be like, well,
Speaker 2: I've fucking failed before and it turned out all right,
Speaker 2: So here we go.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: So much of it is fear, So much of it
Speaker 2: is fear.
Speaker 1: Fear, and like I you know, fear of I mean,
Speaker 1: for us, a lot of times it's like fear of
Speaker 1: am I gonna get fired right right right, am I
Speaker 1: gonna get let go because they don't think I'm good
Speaker 1: And yeah.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's like maybe weren't the right fit for that thing.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe that wasn't the job for you, Like maybe
Speaker 1: some weird shit happened, and like you know, you don't
Speaker 1: mess with the cast, you don't mess with the whatever,
Speaker 1: and like it's just not the right thing, you know,
Speaker 1: like and that's okay, Like you can't let it. Like
Speaker 1: I mean, we've all heard those stories of people that like,
Speaker 1: oh I almost got that job and I didn't get it,
Speaker 1: and then it went to so and so, but then
Speaker 1: I got this job, which I never would have gotten
Speaker 1: if that had gone you know. Yeah, like there's something
Speaker 1: there's something also to be said about wanting something really bad, yeah,
Speaker 1: and then it not working out and that actually maybe
Speaker 1: is maybe you fail at that and then the better
Speaker 1: thing comes along, right like this or something better for
Speaker 1: the good of all concerned. Sometimes it's just not I
Speaker 1: mean we're talking a lot about like keep trying and
Speaker 1: keep trying until you succeed, but like you might not
Speaker 1: succeed at some stuff and that's okay. You don't have
Speaker 1: to be good at every.
Speaker 2: Single fucking thing.
Speaker 1: You can do some things just because they're fun. You
Speaker 1: can also do some things and try them and.
Speaker 2: Be like that one for me, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1: It's okay, that's okay, it's fine.
Speaker 2: It is okay to not good at stuff like yes,
Speaker 2: And I think the trying is so much more important
Speaker 2: for our personal growth and our happiness than like never trying,
Speaker 2: never taking a risk, never having those experiences right, and
Speaker 2: just playing it safe all the time. I have no
Speaker 2: interest in playing it safe all the time. It sounds
Speaker 2: fucking boring to me, and I think I would be
Speaker 2: miserable person. I mean, I like playing and safe sometimes
Speaker 2: and sometimes when you need it for your mental sure,
Speaker 2: I like, like in the grand scheme of things. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's a difference between playing and safe and being bored.
Speaker 2: You know, like there's a big difference there because like
Speaker 2: playing in safe you can still grow within that arena,
Speaker 2: but being bored like you're never gonna yeah, you're never
Speaker 2: gonna grow, You're never gonna you never and like life
Speaker 2: is so oh well, bro, it's pretty short. We don't
Speaker 2: have a lot of time here. There's not a whole
Speaker 2: whole lot not to be like super downy downer about it.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to be uppy upper, but there's not there's
Speaker 2: not a lot of time. This is the this is
Speaker 2: your one and precious life.
Speaker 1: Isn't that what Mary Oliver says? I'm misquoting Mary Oliver?
Speaker 1: How dare I fail at misquoting? On miss all of
Speaker 1: our I want to myst poets our time. There's not
Speaker 1: a lot of time, so like, give it a shot,
Speaker 1: give it a little shot, just.
Speaker 4: A little shot. There's in our in our Nerd time section.
Speaker 1: I want to rename this research that we didn't do,
Speaker 1: research that we didn't do.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 2: From this Forward's article how to shed perfectionism and the
Speaker 2: desire to be great at everything by sucking at something.
Speaker 2: There's this great story here. First of all, in the article,
Speaker 2: it says, the freedom of sucking at something can hell
Speaker 2: you build resilience, Like we were just saying, embrace imperfection
Speaker 2: and find joy in the pursuit rather than the goal.
Speaker 2: And there's this great little story of this dad that
Speaker 2: I want to read. One day, standing outside of school,
Speaker 2: pickup one of my son's classmates parents, John asked me
Speaker 2: how my son was doing in school that year? I said,
Speaker 2: he's having a hard time. John turned to my son
Speaker 2: and said, it's so great to suck at something. And
Speaker 2: I watched my son's face light up, and I thought,
Speaker 2: oh my god, that just did more for him than
Speaker 2: all the trying to fix the problem. Yes, he never
Speaker 2: learned to write, but he wound up being becoming valedictorian
Speaker 2: of his senior class. Yeah, Henny, yeah right. And it's
Speaker 2: like he was just giving permission to that kid, like,
Speaker 2: just suck at it. Yeah, you got to, you gotta work.
Speaker 2: You better suck, You better work, you better suck. Right,
Speaker 2: And then he goes on to say I was forty
Speaker 2: and there was no reason why forty plus should learn
Speaker 2: to surf, because it's almost impossible. But I was true,
Speaker 2: horse bro, harsh truth, but also true.
Speaker 4: With a little bit that I have served. Uh.
Speaker 2: But I was compelled by it, and I was really
Speaker 2: bad at it. I wanted to do it more than
Speaker 2: anything else, yet I couldn't do it. I kept persisting.
Speaker 2: Hearing John's voice saying it's great to suck at something,
Speaker 2: I thought that this could be my thing. It gave
Speaker 2: me permission to keep doing it and keep trying. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 2: I love that that right, It's just like and you know,
Speaker 2: the enjoying the pursuit of the thing, right, because sometimes
Speaker 2: the other part is like, yes, I think it's great
Speaker 2: to just suck at something like your flower class, but
Speaker 2: you enjoyed it. You enjoyed the pursuit of trying to
Speaker 2: learn how to do that.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: It wasn't about becoming this like amazing flower arranger, right,
Speaker 2: you enjoyed the ride. And I think that that is
Speaker 2: such an important like mind shift if you could reframe
Speaker 2: it for yourself that way. And then the other side
Speaker 2: that we haven't even talked about is like the times
Speaker 2: that you get totally fucking surprised by like all of
Speaker 2: a sudden something clicks and you become really good at
Speaker 2: the thing you sucked at. Like that also happens. Sometimes
Speaker 2: it doesn't that happen, but like you would never know,
Speaker 2: you would never have that experience, You would never get
Speaker 2: that incredible surprise if you didn't like stay in the suck,
Speaker 2: you know, and I said to yourself, I'm gonna suck
Speaker 2: at this and that's it, and it's okay, it's okay.
Speaker 2: It's just like reframing your mindset. It does feel yucky.
Speaker 1: It does feel yucky, yucky, and it's so That's the thing,
Speaker 1: is like it's okay. I have to keep telling myself
Speaker 1: that in my own life it's okay.
Speaker 2: For it to feel lucky. It doesn't always have to
Speaker 2: feel good. It doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't. I think
Speaker 2: we're so used to wanting to be comforted and wanting
Speaker 2: to be comfortable, and we have a lot of creature comforts.
Speaker 2: We're very very very very lucky. Most of us are
Speaker 2: really in we have rooms over our heads, we have
Speaker 2: our family are okay, you know. Like again, I'm just
Speaker 2: thinking about the fires again, and it's like we're so
Speaker 2: we're so happy to be comfortable that like the even
Speaker 2: the feeling of the possibility of feeling uncomfortable is like, no,
Speaker 2: I don't want to do that. I don't want to
Speaker 2: do that. I'm terrified of.
Speaker 4: That, you know, fear Again.
Speaker 2: For me, it's like motherhood. A lot of motherhood for.
Speaker 1: Me is like ooh, I don't know if this is
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm good at this, and I
Speaker 1: don't I can't really see whether or not I'm good
Speaker 1: at it or not. And yeah, I have to keep
Speaker 1: telling myself I am good at this It's not going
Speaker 1: to feel amazing and comfortable every second. A lot of
Speaker 1: this is going to feel bad, downright bad and yucky
Speaker 1: and like.
Speaker 2: Boo boo. Yeah. But you know, it's like nine years
Speaker 2: in I look back and I feel like I'm such
Speaker 2: a more resilient person because of motherhood. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: totally totally.
Speaker 1: I mean three years in, I'm like, whoa I am.
Speaker 1: I'm fucking some of the ship that I deal with
Speaker 1: or like in my life or whatever.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm fucking tough. I'm like fucking tough and
Speaker 2: like for me, no tough.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's still because I always thought of myself as
Speaker 1: like a really soft, little like sensitive flower, and like
Speaker 1: I'm tough and I'm still sensitive. I'm still a sensitive flower. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can be both of those things can be true
Speaker 1: at the same time. Anyway, that was a real side
Speaker 1: side road that we took more research that we didn't do.
Speaker 2: Uh okay, this I thought was really fun. There's like
Speaker 2: a ton of famous people that were not you know,
Speaker 2: didn't do it.
Speaker 1: Didn't didn't they didn't crack right off the bat, you know,
Speaker 1: famous failures.
Speaker 2: This is why we love these stories.
Speaker 1: Yeah, comforting Smoan Biles, arguably the greatest athlete of all time.
Speaker 1: Uh didn't make the US women's junior national team. Martin
Speaker 1: Letting junior got to see in public speaking.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, oh wowow wow.
Speaker 3: Wow wow wow.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm going to venture to say that that
Speaker 2: teacher was probably racist, but also.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: Producers rejected thirty of Sylvester Saaloon's screenplays before Rocky. Think
Speaker 2: about that, Wow about that and like big out.
Speaker 1: When you think about Rocky as a piece of art,
Speaker 1: it's like he wrote that so specifically for himself.
Speaker 2: Nobody else could have played that role. It was all
Speaker 2: of his, you know, idiosyncratic, weird little bits of him that.
Speaker 1: He played into that thing and made it. You know,
Speaker 1: it's iconic, legendary. Oprah Winfrey fired from her first TV
Speaker 1: job as an anchor in Baltimore, m.
Speaker 2: Fired, fired. Steven Spielberg rejected twice by the University of
Speaker 2: Southern California School of Cinematic Arts. Rejected twice twice.
Speaker 4: You guys, one of the greatest directors of all time.
Speaker 2: Boo boo, boom, boom boom. Oh oh, I liked this one.
Speaker 2: Five thousand, one hundred and twenty six is the number
Speaker 2: of failed prototypes Sir James Dyson went through over the
Speaker 2: course of fifteen years before creating the Baglass vacuum cleaner
Speaker 2: that we now know as the Dyson. Now, not only
Speaker 2: do I point five billion how much four point five
Speaker 2: billion networth?
Speaker 4: Four point five billion?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I give him money all the time,
Speaker 1: but five thousand, one hundred and twenty six prototypes over
Speaker 1: fifteen years. Talk about probably feeling imposter syndrome, probably feeling
Speaker 1: like maybe you suck and it's not gonna like I'm
Speaker 1: sure there were so many moments that he almost quit.
Speaker 1: I don't know, probably, I mean, there's a there's also
Speaker 1: an element of like blind faith in yourself sometimes that
Speaker 1: I think you have to have battling this right of
Speaker 1: like you can see the thing right and you have
Speaker 1: to like go through the mistakes, you have to go
Speaker 1: through the failure to like write. Like writers talk about that,
Speaker 1: like they I've been watching the SNL documentary. It's so
Speaker 1: on Peacock and Uh, and there's.
Speaker 2: A whole episode that just focuses on the writers and
Speaker 2: they like talk about how like they know the first
Speaker 2: draft of the sketch is gonna suck.
Speaker 4: Like they know it you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But then that gets the next idea and the next idea,
Speaker 2: and like it's this building thing to like arrive at
Speaker 2: the funniest version of that sketch. And I think it's
Speaker 2: like that for so many things, Like you gotta suck,
Speaker 2: you gotta slug through, you gotta like get through all
Speaker 2: the bad ideas all the to like finally arrive of
Speaker 2: like that light bulb moment where it like clicks and you're.
Speaker 4: Like, oh, this is what it is.
Speaker 2: This is the thing, you know, and you can't get
Speaker 2: there without fucking failing, falling on your face looking like
Speaker 2: an idiot, Like it suck being uncomfortable, Like all the
Speaker 2: things we've been talking about can also lead to greatness.
Speaker 2: And why would you deny yourself your own greatness? Xander, Yeah,
Speaker 2: Zam Xander, God Xander. Don't be afraid of your own greatness.
Speaker 4: Don't be of your own greatness.
Speaker 2: Don't be annoying all those certifications you're bad at right now.
Speaker 2: You might be fucking great at them in the end,
Speaker 2: or they might lead to something else that you're fucking
Speaker 2: great at. Yeah them, don't deny your greatness. More better
Speaker 2: that I think is like a really nice place to
Speaker 2: wrap it up. Yeah, I feel like.
Speaker 1: What's interesting is like two people that really understand imposter
Speaker 1: syndrome inside and out, baby, if you asked us the
Speaker 1: right question, but also two people that have come a
Speaker 1: really long way with it. You know, Yes, we've really
Speaker 1: both come a very long way with dealing with this
Speaker 1: feeling and struggling with it and learning about it. And
Speaker 1: we have really really interesting perspectives in terms of like
Speaker 1: being human being and artists and parents and being where
Speaker 1: we are in our careers and lives. So for someone
Speaker 1: just starting out, I think that's a really good it's
Speaker 1: a good question to ask people, you know, especially people
Speaker 1: that have more experience than you, like, how do you
Speaker 1: deal with it?
Speaker 4: How do you feel about it?
Speaker 1: I remember Ted Danson on set like he could not
Speaker 1: remember these lines, which was making me laugh a lot,
Speaker 1: and then he sort of said to us, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm definitely you know, paraphrasing him, but he was like, God,
Speaker 1: isn't wild You just feel like such a you know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter how long you've worked or what you've done.
Speaker 1: It's like the lines don't come out of your mouth
Speaker 1: on the way that you want them to.
Speaker 2: And you just feel like such an idiot. But he
Speaker 2: had such a good.
Speaker 1: Way about saying it, you know, like sort of understanding
Speaker 1: and forgiveness of himself for judging himself as an idiot.
Speaker 2: Because he's not, you know, and he knows he's not,
Speaker 2: but he just feels it.
Speaker 1: So like we're not saying any of this to be
Speaker 1: like you're never going to feel it again. We're saying like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're gonna feel it. You're human, but these are some
Speaker 1: ways that you can like be more better at dealing
Speaker 1: with the feeling of And you know, it was so
Speaker 1: charming to see him say that too.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I love that, And it's and it's
Speaker 2: also it's something I've seen other actors, particularly like very
Speaker 2: experienced older actors, Like every first day of every season,
Speaker 2: Andre Brower would say.
Speaker 4: Oh, I'm nervous, mm hmm.
Speaker 2: And sometimes these incredible guest stars that we would have
Speaker 2: come in would do the same thing. And then I
Speaker 2: realized like there was a pattern, and like, oh, they
Speaker 2: feel these feelings, but they have the experience to just
Speaker 2: call it out. Yeah, and they're like in that moment,
Speaker 2: they're simultaneously like forgiving themselves, like you said, for having
Speaker 2: those feelings and maybe making mistakes, but and they're just
Speaker 2: like taking the pressure off themselves, which just like letting
Speaker 2: everyone know, like, oh I'm nervous.
Speaker 1: Oh that's so funny because I never ever say it,
Speaker 1: like I will not I refuse.
Speaker 4: Oh, I'm like totally I started using that.
Speaker 2: I will say it to myself in my trailer or whatever. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: but I won't say it on set. I won't.
Speaker 4: I will say it.
Speaker 1: I'll be like I'm excited. Yeah, I'm like a line
Speaker 1: of myself. Man, I'll be like, I'm excited to do this.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to start.
Speaker 4: I won't. I won't say I'm.
Speaker 2: Nervous because I feel for me, that makes me feel
Speaker 2: too vulnerable. And what I need to do for myself
Speaker 2: for my own process is like I gotta fucking I
Speaker 2: gotta coach myself, and you gotta be like, bit, you
Speaker 2: got this, you practice, you know what you're doing, you belong,
Speaker 2: you are fucking here. You gotta wear those tall black
Speaker 2: boots and those skinny jeans and.
Speaker 1: That blood the jacket, you know what I mean. Like,
Speaker 1: I have to fucking wind myself up about it. I
Speaker 1: can't do the I might be able to.
Speaker 2: When I'm like an old, an old.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think it's different. I think it's great.
Speaker 2: I think what you're describing is that you've learned what
Speaker 2: works for you and those moments when you have those feelings. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and for me, it's like I need to let the
Speaker 2: air out, like to just like say the thing, and
Speaker 2: then it's almost like as soon as I say it,
Speaker 2: it's like released. Like it's like it's like out of
Speaker 2: my body, you know, like everyone knows I'm maybe nervous,
Speaker 2: and they're going to forgive my mistakes that I'm about
Speaker 2: to make, but I know what I'm doing and like
Speaker 2: this is going to like get me back in the
Speaker 2: mental state that I need to be in to do this.
Speaker 2: Because I say that out loud, then it's like I
Speaker 2: planted a little seed and a pot and it'll just
Speaker 2: keep growing and growing the whole time that I'm Oh,
Speaker 2: I think maybe they're being like I'm excited and like
Speaker 2: the seed blew away on the way. Now, it's just
Speaker 2: not true. I'm excited and I and I am excited. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's and excitement or like basically the same thing just
Speaker 2: in different forms, right. Yeah, So like then I'm like, yeah, bitch,
Speaker 2: I'm fucking excited, you know, and then if I make
Speaker 2: a mistake, I'm like, well, it's because I'm excited. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's because I'm excited. Guys, It's because I'm really excited
Speaker 2: about this. I don't know if you get tell? Oh God, anyway,
Speaker 2: do you feel more better?
Speaker 4: I do feel more better?
Speaker 2: How do you? This was a good I liked this
Speaker 2: question and I liked thinking about and talking about being
Speaker 2: okay with being bad at something. Yeah, it's good, you
Speaker 2: got that. Yeah, Xander.
Speaker 1: Anyway, guys, thanks for joining us this week, and let
Speaker 1: us know again if you have any topics that you
Speaker 1: want to to talk to us about.
Speaker 2: Okay, bye, bye.
Speaker 3: Better.
Speaker 2: Do you have something you'd like to be more better
Speaker 2: at that you want us to talk about in a
Speaker 2: future episode? Can you relate to our struggles or have
Speaker 2: you tried one of our tips and tricks?
Speaker 1: Shoot us your thoughts and ideas at Morebetter pod at
Speaker 1: gmail dot com and include a voice note if you
Speaker 1: want to be featured on the pod. Ooh More Better
Speaker 1: with Stephanie Melissa is a production from WV Sound and
Speaker 1: iHeartMedia's Mikutura podcast network, hosted by me Stephanie Beatrice and
Speaker 1: Melissa FUMERA More Better is produced by Isis Madrid and
Speaker 1: Sophie Spencer Zagos. Our executive producers are Wilmer Valderrama and
Speaker 1: Leo Clem at w V Sound. This episode was edited
Speaker 1: by Isis Madrid and engineered by Sean Tracy and features
Speaker 1: original music by Madison Davenport and Helo Boy.
Speaker 2: Our cover art is by vincent Remy's and photography by
Speaker 2: David Avalos. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 1: See you next week's sucker Us Bye,