1
00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:07,880
Speaker 1: King Slime is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Heirloom Media.

2
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,720
Speaker 2: Dude, the lines I just hopped out that goes I'm

3
00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,240
Speaker 2: driving a dad body. I really into nothing, but I

4
00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,080
Speaker 2: spent it by the hobby. I was locked inside the trap.

5
00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,600
Speaker 2: Didn't think about it, but I got out it. Now

6
00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,119
Speaker 2: my cars and clothes a side.

7
00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:27,000
Speaker 1: Are those all lines?

8
00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:27,800
Speaker 3: And dropping you?

9
00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:28,400
Speaker 4: Yes?

10
00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:30,479
Speaker 5: Do either of.

11
00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,520
Speaker 2: Those lines refer to the defendity include humble.

12
00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,440
Speaker 6: Undertid No, you know what this song is about.

13
00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:42,400
Speaker 7: It's about coming from nothing. It's about telling your kids,

14
00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,520
Speaker 7: not that you're riding around the body. It's about telling kids,

15
00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,960
Speaker 7: if you live under the sun stances that gentleman like

16
00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,800
Speaker 7: mister Williams did, you may have to kill somebody because

17
00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:52,760
Speaker 7: they're gonna kill you.

18
00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,000
Speaker 6: I assume they wanted to start strong and and felt

19
00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,040
Speaker 6: that he was a strong witness.

20
00:00:57,880 --> 00:00:59,600
Speaker 5: To bet lead off.

21
00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:01,960
Speaker 6: But if you bat them lead off, you can't bat

22
00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,160
Speaker 6: them clean up and bat them seventh in the order as.

23
00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,000
Speaker 1: Well, your honor.

24
00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,440
Speaker 7: This is critical to me. They are trying to paint

25
00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,440
Speaker 7: mister Williams as a person he is not.

26
00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:13,160
Speaker 5: This is a good man.

27
00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,600
Speaker 1: So I'm George and I'm Christina Lee. This is King

28
00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,200
Speaker 1: Sloan and of course we were joined here by producer

29
00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:36,880
Speaker 1: Tommy Andres.

30
00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:37,600
Speaker 4: Hey, Tommy, I.

31
00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:38,759
Speaker 5: Guess thanks for having me again.

32
00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,280
Speaker 3: And we're also joined by Serri Chadahimenez, who was a

33
00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,800
Speaker 3: defense attorney on the YSL trial until his client was

34
00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:48,120
Speaker 3: severed from the case.

35
00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:50,040
Speaker 5: Corderius Dorsey, Right.

36
00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,320
Speaker 4: That's correct, not severed, dismissed the charges drop.

37
00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,200
Speaker 5: Okay, so what is the difference between severed and dismissed.

38
00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:58,559
Speaker 4: Severed as in many other people that have been severed,

39
00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,400
Speaker 4: that means that on hold, they're in limbo. Their case

40
00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,040
Speaker 4: will go on. So all the multiple people that were severed,

41
00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:08,080
Speaker 4: either because their attorneys were able to conceive a baby

42
00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,960
Speaker 4: and bring him to life before the trial is over,

43
00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,440
Speaker 4: or the attorneys that had other issues, or they had

44
00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,560
Speaker 4: no attorneys, that's a bigger concern that should be a

45
00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,120
Speaker 4: big headline. There are multiple people with no attorneys, and

46
00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,639
Speaker 4: it's been over a year and a half now they

47
00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,600
Speaker 4: still have not been able to appoint attorneys to everybody

48
00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,960
Speaker 4: that's waiting on one So those people are just going

49
00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,440
Speaker 4: to have to wait and have their trial on another day.

50
00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:35,440
Speaker 8: Wow.

51
00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,080
Speaker 3: Okay, well, so he's already spent knowledge, so thank you

52
00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:38,720
Speaker 3: for joining us.

53
00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,880
Speaker 5: Three. Now a little bit about Cordarius Dorcy.

54
00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:43,880
Speaker 3: We'll just talk about he was one of the original

55
00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,400
Speaker 3: twenty eight defendants, and as we talked about, he's no

56
00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,720
Speaker 3: longer part of the Rico indictment, and that's because he

57
00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,799
Speaker 3: was sentenced to a second life sentence right for murder.

58
00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,640
Speaker 4: That's correct. Now, mister Dorsey had a case in the

59
00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:02,040
Speaker 4: cab County and he had being sentenced to life without

60
00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,560
Speaker 4: parole for that case. A jury decided that he was

61
00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,800
Speaker 4: guilty of murder and the judge gave him the max,

62
00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,000
Speaker 4: and the max is that you will never get out

63
00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,880
Speaker 4: of prison. So that happened before we even started the straw.

64
00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,760
Speaker 4: Knowing that they still wanted to go forward against him

65
00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,880
Speaker 4: while we were on trial, they decided to indict him

66
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,720
Speaker 4: on another murder, which he was a suspect in that case.

67
00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,240
Speaker 4: In essence, what happened is that he was walking down

68
00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,800
Speaker 4: a shopping center a sidewalk. Somebody pulled a gun on him.

69
00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,360
Speaker 4: He heard a click, so he turned around and defended

70
00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,320
Speaker 4: himself and did what he had to do to be

71
00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,560
Speaker 4: able to walk away. So the person that initially pulled

72
00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:47,200
Speaker 4: a gun on him ended up losing his life. A

73
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,840
Speaker 4: jury determined that he was guilty, and so he was

74
00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,480
Speaker 4: convicted to the same thing, life without parole. At the

75
00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:56,480
Speaker 4: end of the day, makes no difference. He was already

76
00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,040
Speaker 4: serving a life without parol sentence. He's not going to

77
00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:03,840
Speaker 4: go anywhere. The court and the prosecutors did to him.

78
00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:08,400
Speaker 4: Absolutely nothing. He still doesn't change what his life is

79
00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:12,920
Speaker 4: going to be. And then the state decided to no

80
00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:17,279
Speaker 4: longer prosecute him on the Rico cases because mister Dorsey

81
00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,760
Speaker 4: had himself on his own, filed a demand for a

82
00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:22,919
Speaker 4: speedy trial. His speedy trial was going to run at

83
00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:27,880
Speaker 4: the same time that mister Williams was so by them

84
00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,240
Speaker 4: dismissing his charges, they cannot go forward against them ever. Again,

85
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,599
Speaker 4: it's the case is done against him. They claimed that

86
00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,240
Speaker 4: it was for judicial economy. I'm going to be a

87
00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,320
Speaker 4: cynic and I'm going to say that the only reason

88
00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,560
Speaker 4: he was even in the case to begin with is

89
00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,839
Speaker 4: because they wanted to have a convicted murder sit next

90
00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,320
Speaker 4: to the celebrity. There was no connection at all between

91
00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,599
Speaker 4: mister Dorsey and mister Williams other than they happened to

92
00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,080
Speaker 4: be from Atlanta and they happened to have at one

93
00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,760
Speaker 4: point grown up in the same neighborhood of Cleveland Avenue Cleveland,

94
00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:05,000
Speaker 4: which the DA's office wants to portray as a war zone.

95
00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,240
Speaker 4: You would think is Gosa over there. You would think

96
00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,880
Speaker 4: that it's the most dangerous part of town. I know,

97
00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,159
Speaker 4: there's a great preschool, there's a feeder school to a

98
00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,560
Speaker 4: private academy that just down the street, wood Were Academy

99
00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,440
Speaker 4: right there. There's a lot of there's a bit of

100
00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:23,320
Speaker 4: gentrification going on, but there is community. There's people that

101
00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,080
Speaker 4: know each other, that have known each other for generations.

102
00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,280
Speaker 4: Cleveland Avenue is just like East Atlanta or any other

103
00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,679
Speaker 4: neighborhood that has been fully gentrified. Now, I don't see

104
00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,479
Speaker 4: it as dangerous. I've been there myself many times. But anyway,

105
00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:42,320
Speaker 4: they wanted to sit a convicted murder next to mister Williams,

106
00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:44,640
Speaker 4: and I think that after a while they realized that

107
00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,600
Speaker 4: even though he had an appointed attorney, that appointed attorney

108
00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:48,960
Speaker 4: had a big mouth and they wanted to get rid

109
00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:49,200
Speaker 4: of it.

110
00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:51,800
Speaker 3: Well, there you go.

111
00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:53,760
Speaker 5: We brought your big mouth right into the studio today.

112
00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:54,880
Speaker 5: So thank you.

113
00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,680
Speaker 3: So in the limited series, we talked about this kind

114
00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,400
Speaker 3: of famous incident. At least it went viral at least

115
00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,480
Speaker 3: of you having to buy lunch for the entire defense team,

116
00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,960
Speaker 3: which your choice of Magic City Wings said something all

117
00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,279
Speaker 3: on its own. But I want to ask you, we've

118
00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,240
Speaker 3: been curious in here how the defense team functions in

119
00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,200
Speaker 3: a Rico trial. So you've got all these attorneys at

120
00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,000
Speaker 3: one point you had, well, not twenty eight, because you

121
00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,799
Speaker 3: said some of the defendants never had attorneys and still don't,

122
00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,920
Speaker 3: but some large amount of attorneys. You still have six

123
00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,880
Speaker 3: defendants with attorneys. Do they function as a team or

124
00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,120
Speaker 3: are they sort of operating independently?

125
00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:32,000
Speaker 5: How does it work?

126
00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,799
Speaker 4: Well? It is as in any prosecution, there's code defendants.

127
00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:39,960
Speaker 4: Everybody is an individual, and each man or woman for themselves.

128
00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,720
Speaker 4: Why because there's always the potential of a conflict right

129
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,120
Speaker 4: at one point or another, my client or someone else's

130
00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,680
Speaker 4: climb My determined it's in my best interest to turn

131
00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,720
Speaker 4: state witness and save myself because it's okay to be selfish,

132
00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,880
Speaker 4: and some people, at least eight people have been you

133
00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,800
Speaker 4: can say selfish or have been self preservation because they

134
00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:03,120
Speaker 4: were facing with even though you probably didn't do what

135
00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,720
Speaker 4: they're claiming you did, or if you did something you've

136
00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,479
Speaker 4: already been convicted for it. There's a handful of people

137
00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,200
Speaker 4: that have already been sentenced and served their time and

138
00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,320
Speaker 4: pay their debt to society for what they did, and

139
00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,640
Speaker 4: then they brought them back and charge them with RICO

140
00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,600
Speaker 4: for the exact same acts that they've already paid their

141
00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,760
Speaker 4: debt to society. So you can sit there in jail

142
00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,960
Speaker 4: in the bedbug Rice Street for now what it's been

143
00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,040
Speaker 4: a year and a month of trial, plus the pre

144
00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,080
Speaker 4: trial detention which was another four or five months, So

145
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,160
Speaker 4: you could be there for a year and six months

146
00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,440
Speaker 4: waiting for a jury to say, no, it's not right

147
00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,560
Speaker 4: for you to be prosecuted twice for the exact same acts,

148
00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:44,080
Speaker 4: or no, they could improve the actual conspiracy or the connection.

149
00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,360
Speaker 4: And to do that you have to sit in that

150
00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,480
Speaker 4: courtroom and go to Ry Street every day, be woken

151
00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:50,840
Speaker 4: up at three in the morning so you can be

152
00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,200
Speaker 4: transported to the courtroom. Or you can say, yes, why

153
00:07:54,240 --> 00:08:01,600
Speaker 4: I sell this a game, Yes they commit crimes. Yes, yes, ma'am, Yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am.

154
00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:03,600
Speaker 4: You can say those things and you get to go home.

155
00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,880
Speaker 4: So I have nothing negative to say about those young

156
00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,360
Speaker 4: men that went home and are with their families. You

157
00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,680
Speaker 4: saw mister Stevens. He's doing great, he's got a cdo,

158
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,160
Speaker 4: he's got a good job, he's being a productive member

159
00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,480
Speaker 4: of society, as well as many of the other men

160
00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:24,800
Speaker 4: that were released, and very important point, they're all alive

161
00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,280
Speaker 4: and well. The main concern, the reason that the state

162
00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,400
Speaker 4: wants to close the courtroom and get rid of these

163
00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:33,880
Speaker 4: cameras is because of the danger to their potential witnesses.

164
00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,400
Speaker 4: Well a s niche. If somebody's been labeled a niche

165
00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,040
Speaker 4: is the person with most risk and nothing, absolutely nothing

166
00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,240
Speaker 4: has happened to them for a year and a month

167
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,520
Speaker 4: because there is no danger to them. They're just living

168
00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,000
Speaker 4: their lives. But going back to the original question, sorry,

169
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:56,240
Speaker 4: I wan't a tangent. Everybody is fighting for themselves. But

170
00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,040
Speaker 4: at the same time we got to be smart about it.

171
00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:02,200
Speaker 4: We're going against the state, a party that has unlimited resources.

172
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,920
Speaker 4: They can do whatever they want. They can subpoena fly in,

173
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,920
Speaker 4: put in hotels seven hundred people if they want to,

174
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,840
Speaker 4: and we have limited time, limited scope. We have our

175
00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,880
Speaker 4: own practices, so at any time, if we can help

176
00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,640
Speaker 4: each other, we will. There was not an official agreement,

177
00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,480
Speaker 4: but if mister Steele is up there arguing something and

178
00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,439
Speaker 4: I see case law that I think is on point,

179
00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:27,920
Speaker 4: I'll text them real quick. Same thing with him. I

180
00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,319
Speaker 4: got emails We're like, hey, you might want to look

181
00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,720
Speaker 4: into this. Or when I was reviewing evidence, your client's

182
00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,720
Speaker 4: name came up on this. Why because it just makes

183
00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,360
Speaker 4: sense to share it, because we are a united front

184
00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,360
Speaker 4: to fight this state, because the state has way more

185
00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,119
Speaker 4: power than any of us individually.

186
00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,680
Speaker 8: I would like to note, just while we are taping

187
00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,160
Speaker 8: this at this very moment, there is a hearing in

188
00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:57,559
Speaker 8: that courtroom about banning cameras from the courtroom. Our attorney

189
00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,880
Speaker 8: is going to be arguing against that, even though we are.

190
00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:02,360
Speaker 5: Not already won that case.

191
00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,080
Speaker 8: In order to get into the courtroom, like we had

192
00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,240
Speaker 8: to fight legally, in order to be physically present in

193
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:13,560
Speaker 8: the courtroom. The prosecution, as you say, believes that there's

194
00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:18,720
Speaker 8: a danger by having cameras. I think that is spurious nonsense.

195
00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,480
Speaker 8: Our attorney is representing us in this regard for free

196
00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:26,760
Speaker 8: even though we're a podcast that doesn't rely on video cameras,

197
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,920
Speaker 8: and there's like every other media organization that's covering this

198
00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:36,199
Speaker 8: is speaking against this today. I honestly don't think that

199
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:40,480
Speaker 8: it's going to happen. I expect Judge Glanville to rule

200
00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:44,320
Speaker 8: against that idea. But it goes to this broader thing

201
00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,560
Speaker 8: and what are they doing, Like, why is it that

202
00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,920
Speaker 8: they don't want cameras in that courtroom? Because I don't

203
00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,920
Speaker 8: think it's about witness intimidation. I don't think that's what's

204
00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:54,400
Speaker 8: going on.

205
00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:57,800
Speaker 5: What do you think is going on, George?

206
00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:02,280
Speaker 8: I think that the continuing cover this is not reflecting

207
00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,520
Speaker 8: them in the best light in their own views, and

208
00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,320
Speaker 8: that they know that if they can shut Law on

209
00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,439
Speaker 8: Crime's camera off, Law on Crime is going to stop

210
00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:15,080
Speaker 8: covering this and everybody essentially is going to stop talking

211
00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:19,360
Speaker 8: about it as much. And I sense, I sense that's

212
00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:20,040
Speaker 8: what's going on.

213
00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:20,440
Speaker 7: Now.

214
00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:21,960
Speaker 8: They're going to yell at me when I said that,

215
00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,360
Speaker 8: But I mean, what else am I supposed to conclude?

216
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,320
Speaker 3: I mean, it's hard not to draw that conclusion. I'm saying,

217
00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,120
Speaker 3: what about you, Christina, what do you think of the

218
00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,640
Speaker 3: courtroom not having cameras in it? I mean, do you

219
00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,760
Speaker 3: think that there's a motivation behind that from the prosecution

220
00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:38,160
Speaker 3: That is not what they're saying it is.

221
00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:44,040
Speaker 1: I think so certainly. I think limiting access therefore limits

222
00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:48,800
Speaker 1: public opinion on this trial to begin with. And I

223
00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:53,160
Speaker 1: am very struck by just how many people are tuning

224
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,240
Speaker 1: into this every single day, people who might not all

225
00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:58,840
Speaker 1: the ways have the opportunity or therefore the bandwidth to

226
00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,160
Speaker 1: even go into that court room. I think journalists included, honestly,

227
00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,839
Speaker 1: because court reporters, just like teachers, they all need a

228
00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,000
Speaker 1: raise because covering this stuff day in and day out,

229
00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,440
Speaker 1: especially at the speed at which this trial is happening.

230
00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,520
Speaker 1: I'm not an expert, but I feel like it is

231
00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,200
Speaker 1: taking a long time. I think is like super super important.

232
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, you can't help but to wonder about, like

233
00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,360
Speaker 1: what their motivations might be. If they're so concerned about

234
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,640
Speaker 1: prosecution witnesses, why not also be concerned for people who

235
00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:28,680
Speaker 1: might have been labeled as a quote unquote snitch, Like

236
00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,920
Speaker 1: therefore everybody's in danger, right, So I'm not sure?

237
00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:33,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, and why make that decision?

238
00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:33,760
Speaker 4: Now?

239
00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,560
Speaker 3: Let's see, you know, has the trial's been televised for

240
00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:39,079
Speaker 3: a year and a half.

241
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,760
Speaker 8: Indeed, you know, I was at the capitol yesterday. I

242
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,440
Speaker 8: was looking at some legislation which will affect Fulton County's jail.

243
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:51,880
Speaker 8: I might add, oil lobbyist our National Gas lobbyist at

244
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,360
Speaker 8: random grabs me and says, George, I love your King

245
00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,280
Speaker 8: Slime podcast. I listen to it all the time. And

246
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:02,720
Speaker 8: he is effusive with these other like like straight laced

247
00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,720
Speaker 8: like Brooks Brothers dressed lobbyist guys like you have to

248
00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,160
Speaker 8: listen to this podcast. I mean you're right, like there

249
00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,440
Speaker 8: is there's a lot of interest out there in places

250
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,960
Speaker 8: you wouldn't expect, like for interest in the trial and

251
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:21,600
Speaker 8: honestly interest in what we're doing with it. By the way,

252
00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:23,959
Speaker 8: let me tell you when I was at the Capital Court,

253
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:28,040
Speaker 8: because it's it goes to the question I'm about to ask. Yesterday,

254
00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:34,400
Speaker 8: the Georgia State Senate passed a bill that will increase

255
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,559
Speaker 8: the number of crimes for which you must pay cash

256
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,800
Speaker 8: in order to get out on bond, and it also

257
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:47,880
Speaker 8: essentially outlaws bail funds. Bail funds are an element of

258
00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,680
Speaker 8: the terrorism prosecution going on with copp City.

259
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:53,320
Speaker 1: I was about to say.

260
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,880
Speaker 8: Three of the people who are charged or charged because

261
00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,160
Speaker 8: they were in part because they were a parent we

262
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:04,480
Speaker 8: mis using bail fund money for things that the state

263
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,240
Speaker 8: believes was in support of terrorism.

264
00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:09,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, less reminder our listeners outside of Atlanta.

265
00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,440
Speaker 3: So sixty one people have been indicted for protesting against

266
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,120
Speaker 3: this police training facility that's being built in the south

267
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,760
Speaker 3: east side of Atlanta, correct, right, And so this is

268
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,640
Speaker 3: another big reco case that's coming down the pipeline in form.

269
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,360
Speaker 8: Count so Fuldhaon County Jail has had death test desks

270
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:29,080
Speaker 8: fifteen last year, ten last year, fifteen, the year before,

271
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,480
Speaker 8: and one a couple of weeks ago. It is widely

272
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,080
Speaker 8: understood to be a very dangerous jail, and this is

273
00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,560
Speaker 8: the jail that most of the people in the YSL

274
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,440
Speaker 8: case are being held in. We had an episode about

275
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,680
Speaker 8: this earlier earlier in the series. At what point do

276
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,520
Speaker 8: you believe that the jail conditions are I'm asking you Tochata,

277
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,960
Speaker 8: At what point do you believe that the jail conditions

278
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,760
Speaker 8: are so dangerous that it becomes an Eighth Amendment violation

279
00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:59,480
Speaker 8: and a means of coercion that is constitutionally improper? And

280
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,760
Speaker 8: how do you actually get to a point where, like

281
00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,040
Speaker 8: you can start looking at jail releases because of the

282
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:06,160
Speaker 8: constitutional question.

283
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,080
Speaker 4: Hopefully the federal investigation will get there. At what point

284
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,240
Speaker 4: I'm saying back in the nineteen nineties, back when this

285
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,520
Speaker 4: jail started to be overcrowded. It's just like anything else.

286
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,600
Speaker 4: If you go to a hotel and they'll tell you

287
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,120
Speaker 4: we have a thousand rooms and you're like, okay, well

288
00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,400
Speaker 4: how many rooms are occupied and they say a thousand

289
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,640
Speaker 4: and they're okay, let me get another room. And they're like, okay,

290
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:29,840
Speaker 4: you can come on in and bring a thousand more

291
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,800
Speaker 4: people in there, even though we've already at capacity. Let's

292
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,880
Speaker 4: just double capacity because we can continue to get money.

293
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,200
Speaker 4: A hotel wouldn't be able to do that. Nowhere can

294
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,000
Speaker 4: do You can't go to a restaurant and have more

295
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,840
Speaker 4: people than it's built for because the fire department is

296
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,680
Speaker 4: going to shut you down. At what point will somebody

297
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,520
Speaker 4: shut down this jail because it's overcrowded. And it's not

298
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,880
Speaker 4: only overcrowded with murders and felons and rapists. There are

299
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,560
Speaker 4: people there that have been sitting there for months on misdemeanors.

300
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,160
Speaker 4: Misdemeanors because they want to change laws and they want

301
00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,360
Speaker 4: to make it you can't get a signature bond in

302
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,760
Speaker 4: certain cases. You must pay. You must pay cash bail.

303
00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:05,920
Speaker 4: No one can help you with the bail. So what

304
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,800
Speaker 4: they want is they want to keep their beds in

305
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,560
Speaker 4: their hotel full and keep collecting money from wherever that

306
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,520
Speaker 4: money is coming. That's the real concern, and I hope

307
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,200
Speaker 4: that the federal government does the right thing, and I

308
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,800
Speaker 4: hope that some people get prosecuted for what they are doing.

309
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,600
Speaker 4: That's what they really should be looking into instead of

310
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,680
Speaker 4: adding more because the solution is always, well, just give

311
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,480
Speaker 4: us more money and we'll build more beds, and that's

312
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,440
Speaker 4: not a proper solution. There are people in there that

313
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,400
Speaker 4: are mentally ill should be cared for. There are people

314
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,240
Speaker 4: in there that are there because they're too poor to

315
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,760
Speaker 4: post a bond, and that's where the bail funds come

316
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,440
Speaker 4: in there. I cannot talk about the copsity stuff because

317
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,160
Speaker 4: there's that gag order there, but I will talk about

318
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:51,200
Speaker 4: bail funds in a sense that coming around Christmas celebrities.

319
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,880
Speaker 4: Mister Williams has done it. I think most wrappers in

320
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,760
Speaker 4: Atlanta have done it. They go and they bail people out,

321
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:58,520
Speaker 4: they get some money, and they're like, you know what,

322
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,680
Speaker 4: for Christmas, We're going to post your bond and you

323
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,000
Speaker 4: get to go home. Why because you're only there because

324
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,520
Speaker 4: you're broke. Because a judge has already determined that you

325
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,119
Speaker 4: are not a risk that you are entitled to bond,

326
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,840
Speaker 4: and you should be allowed to come out if you

327
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,960
Speaker 4: have money, if you don't have money, surviving there.

328
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,399
Speaker 5: We'll be back after the break.

329
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,120
Speaker 8: We should probably talk about what's happened in court over

330
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:29,200
Speaker 8: the last well.

331
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,520
Speaker 1: I mean I was just about to say, is that

332
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,320
Speaker 1: as YSL defendants are being held in Fulham County Jail,

333
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,240
Speaker 1: they're probably they're expecting to wait even longer just because

334
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,760
Speaker 1: of the sheer amount of evidence that prosecution has. Right,

335
00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:44,400
Speaker 1: we're talking terrorbytes, Tommy.

336
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:45,919
Speaker 5: Terabytes, Yeah, I mean this.

337
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,680
Speaker 3: We even wondering this, seven hundred witnesses on the witness list,

338
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,600
Speaker 3: terabytes of information on the hard drive that has the

339
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,199
Speaker 3: discovery on it, and we were sort of wondering what

340
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:59,280
Speaker 3: the strategy maybe from prosecutors is of just it feels overwhelming,

341
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,920
Speaker 3: you know, certainly to us who are following the case.

342
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:03,680
Speaker 3: But I wonder if that's a strategy just be like,

343
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,159
Speaker 3: look how much stuff we have.

344
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,280
Speaker 4: I'm gonna say, I see it as two ways, and

345
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:13,760
Speaker 4: both of them are cynical. It's either they are have

346
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,359
Speaker 4: bad faith and they're giving us they're dumping discovery that

347
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,400
Speaker 4: is useless. One of the motions that I filed right

348
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:25,520
Speaker 4: before my case was dismissed. Funny enough, never got to

349
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,439
Speaker 4: hurt on my motion. It was that on the latest drop,

350
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,959
Speaker 4: on the latest dump of discovery, which about a terrabine

351
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,200
Speaker 4: and a half. As I'm going through it, As I'm

352
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,439
Speaker 4: going through the files, and as everybody has seen this

353
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,000
Speaker 4: in your computer, you open you open the hard drive,

354
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,600
Speaker 4: and then you open the file and file and file file,

355
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:47,040
Speaker 4: there's just a down menu to get to something going

356
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,960
Speaker 4: into at least four or five sub menus. I find

357
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,760
Speaker 4: a police report. I remember the exact day, but I

358
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,760
Speaker 4: think it was back from twenty sixteen, so not recent.

359
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,000
Speaker 4: Because the rules say if the DA's office or law

360
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,760
Speaker 4: enforcement doesn't have it, they can't turn it over. Obviously,

361
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,399
Speaker 4: they only have to turn over stuff that they have

362
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,359
Speaker 4: either them or law enforcement their possession. But this was

363
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,679
Speaker 4: a twenty sixteen case. They had a foul stamp of

364
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,120
Speaker 4: received by the DA's office. Not even like they can't say, oh,

365
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,359
Speaker 4: the officer didn't turn it over to us. Now it

366
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,960
Speaker 4: had a damn stamp from the complaint room that they

367
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:23,400
Speaker 4: had received it and the found name was do not

368
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:30,400
Speaker 4: serve yet. That is absolutely horrible. That is them hiding discovery.

369
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,840
Speaker 4: They gave us seven hundred witnesses, they give us all

370
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,120
Speaker 4: the terribytes, but this stuff that they had, they even

371
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,560
Speaker 4: labeled it do not serve yet, and they judged it

372
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,600
Speaker 4: absolutely nothing about it because I never got to argue

373
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,119
Speaker 4: my motion. My case was dismissed shortly after I foiled

374
00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,680
Speaker 4: that motion. But so, either they're dumping discovery that's irrelevant

375
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 4: and hiding the important stuff within it, like in a

376
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,160
Speaker 4: civil case when you're going against a big multinational corporation

377
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,080
Speaker 4: and you're just a small guy, like, okay, here go

378
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 4: through this terabytes. Good luck finding what you need, which

379
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 4: is improper, or they have no idea what the hell

380
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,880
Speaker 4: they're doing. They don't even know. They just listed seven

381
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,280
Speaker 4: hundred people because they're on the police reports, but they

382
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 4: haven't talked to them. They don't know what they're going

383
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,679
Speaker 4: to say. They just put it there in case they

384
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,720
Speaker 4: want to call them. But they don't even know their

385
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,160
Speaker 4: case themselves. If you've been investigating this case for over

386
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 4: ten years, right over ten years, shouldn't it be a

387
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:29,880
Speaker 4: very clean, crisp outline Like the Trump case. The case

388
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,920
Speaker 4: against MAGA is pretty straightforward. Say whatever you want to

389
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 4: say about whoever's running the prosecution in that case. That

390
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,119
Speaker 4: man is organized. They don't what they want, they know

391
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,320
Speaker 4: the evidence they're going to percent in the YSL case like, Eh,

392
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 4: we don't know. We'll go with it as it goes.

393
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 4: And it's either incompetence or willful hiding of evidence.

394
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 3: Well and not going all over the place is something

395
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,240
Speaker 3: we want to talk about. So there's this talk about

396
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,840
Speaker 3: coming back to Mark Belknapp, now one of the detectives,

397
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,320
Speaker 3: the detective who literally let us off on the witness stand.

398
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what to make of this,

399
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 1: and Georgia be curious to hear from you too, whether

400
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,399
Speaker 1: you're even surprised to see Detective belt Nap again or

401
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 1: at least like the notion to see him again. But essentially,

402
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,120
Speaker 1: like what happened over the past couple days or so,

403
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,720
Speaker 1: is that prosecution is like, look, we want to bring

404
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,920
Speaker 1: back Detective bell Nap because there are some social media

405
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 1: posts concerning Christian Eppinger, you know, trading him c's for bees,

406
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 1: you know, photos of weapons and things like that, and

407
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 1: we need Detective belt Nap to basically outline how all

408
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 1: this is in furtherance of the conspiracy, you know, demonstrating

409
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:34,719
Speaker 1: his gang affiliation.

410
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 3: The Epinger, by the way, no longer part of the

411
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 3: Rico trial, and also was the one who shot the

412
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 3: police officer or was convicted of shooting a police officer

413
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 3: right shot.

414
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 4: I'm thinking he was actually shot shot. I don't remember.

415
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:51,640
Speaker 5: No, he was shot multiple times.

416
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 8: The police officer was shot six times.

417
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:53,920
Speaker 5: Six times.

418
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So they want to bring back Detective bell

419
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 1: Nap to discuss the social media posts. And then there

420
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 1: is some conversation that I struggle to wrap my mind around,

421
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:09,120
Speaker 1: which is making sure to distinguish Detective belt Nap as

422
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 1: a fact witness versus like an expert witness. And then

423
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 1: there was like this, I guess, some fiery commentary from

424
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 1: Max Shard where he's basically arguing that by reintroducing Detective

425
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,639
Speaker 1: belt Nap as a witness, the jury is going to

426
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 1: take for granted his expertise rather than trying to weigh

427
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:29,959
Speaker 1: it against like everything else that they're hearing.

428
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:35,880
Speaker 6: This case is music in some ways, it's like a chorus.

429
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:42,160
Speaker 6: The state wants to keep calling this expert to sit

430
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 6: in front of this jury, very close to this jury

431
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:50,360
Speaker 6: and repeat their expert testimony as a trip with all

432
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:55,439
Speaker 6: his training and all his accolades, again and again and

433
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,880
Speaker 6: again and again and just and there's a reason why.

434
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 5: Course it exists in a song.

435
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 6: It's catchy, it sticks with you, And that's the that's

436
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 6: the repeated testimony that they want to bring in again

437
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 6: and again and again in front of this jury.

438
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 5: To repeat the same things.

439
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 4: You're honored.

440
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 5: There's an extensive.

441
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:23,160
Speaker 6: Power point that talked about Rock Crew, that talked about bloods,

442
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 6: that talked about sex, money, murder, that talked about colors

443
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:31,919
Speaker 6: and red and bees. And yes, mister Stevens testified to

444
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 6: what he testified to, but Detective bell Nap already testified

445
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 6: as an expert about what a bee stands for, and

446
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 6: what red stands for, and Rock Crew and where Rock

447
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 6: Crew's from. So there's no need to re retread that

448
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 6: information and go over again and again and again.

449
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 1: So what do we like? What do we think? Is

450
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 1: at the heart of Max Shard's concerns.

451
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 4: There there are friction, says to when you you bring

452
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 4: in evidence there is an objection. The objection will be bolstering.

453
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 4: He is boultering his own testimony. He came in before

454
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 4: said something as an expert and we're not getting too

455
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 4: much into the legal part of it, because there are

456
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 4: special ways when there's a dual purpose witness, you are

457
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 4: an expert and effect witness. There's a limiting instruction when

458
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 4: you're listening to this part of it. You're going to

459
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 4: take this testimony for whatever, and then this other testimony

460
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 4: will be for facts. Because an expert is at a

461
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 4: higher level, they're there to tell the jury something that

462
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 4: a lay person would not be able to understand when

463
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 4: in their theory. Let's put in my former prosecutor hat

464
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 4: on the people when they look at social media posts

465
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,239
Speaker 4: and somebody changes the you know, the I guess the

466
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 4: disease for uh so, what's Christian? So instead of calling

467
00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 4: himself Christian Appinger, he goes by brisk because cribs you

468
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 4: might just think, oh, he likes bees better. But cribs

469
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 4: are the natural enemy of the Bloods. Cribs are blue,

470
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 4: so they're Democrats, and Bloods are red, so their Republicans.

471
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,400
Speaker 4: So they don't like each other. They hate each other.

472
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 4: So just like Republicans would change these for ours, the

473
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 4: Bloods would change seas for bees. Right, A normal person

474
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 4: wouldn't know that, So you need an expert to tell

475
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 4: you that cool. He came in, he said it, he

476
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 4: started the straw. He was present as an expert, and

477
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 4: explain that to give context to all the other evidence

478
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 4: to come in next. If you want to bring him

479
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 4: back as a fact witness, talk about what you saw,

480
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 4: what did you see? You saw that you saw a

481
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 4: post that you're the one that took down from the

482
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 4: subpoena and you're going to present it because you're the

483
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 4: foundation witness. Then that's it. Shut up, don't say nothing

484
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 4: else because you've already testified as an expert. We don't

485
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 4: need you to bring back your expertise. And that's what

486
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 4: they're trying to do. They're trying to bring him back

487
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 4: multiple times. What is it two or three? They want

488
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 4: to bring him back because in their order of their case,

489
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 4: they claim to have an order even though they were

490
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 4: ordered to give us an outline and they never did.

491
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 4: They claim to know what case they're presenting. And when

492
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 4: they bring it, he's going to continue to say, and me,

493
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 4: as an expert, I know that B. S Kate change

494
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 4: for C's because I don't know why. So that is

495
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 4: improper because that is bolstering his own testimony. It is

496
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 4: also cumulative. That's another objection, cumulative. Sadly, it seems that objections,

497
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 4: legitimate objections are ignored when they come from the defense,

498
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 4: but made up objections when they come from the state.

499
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 4: They always changed the court's mind, which I guess we're

500
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 4: going to talk about that Joe's song later on, which

501
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 4: is just ridiculous. The reason this case is taken years

502
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 4: is because when the court rules something, we as a

503
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 4: defense attorneys, we might you know, bicker a little bit

504
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 4: butt at the point, we will move on. Win some,

505
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 4: you lose some. This is the Trialey's war. You win

506
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 4: some battles, you lose some, you move on to the

507
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 4: next one.

508
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 8: Uh.

509
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 4: The state will not just understand that no means no.

510
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 4: When the court says no, they come back. They come

511
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 4: back later, They come back a week later, they come

512
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 4: back a month later, and they keep they keep whining

513
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 4: and whining and whining ontil the court eventually, just like

514
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 4: when you're dealing with a toddler at the grocery store

515
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 4: throwing a tantrum like okay, yes you can have that gum.

516
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 4: That's what it comes down to.

517
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 3: More on the way, stay with us, speaking of dragging

518
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 3: things out, this is one of the things we were

519
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 3: going to talk about, which is Trantavious Stevens. We were

520
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 3: a little worried that we were going to be behind

521
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 3: with this episode because you know, we put our episodes

522
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 3: out a couple of days later. But Trantavia Stephens still

523
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 3: was on the stand, you know, recently talking about this

524
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 3: truly humble under God thing. Love is continuing to push

525
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 3: him on whether truly humble God is actually the you know,

526
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 3: acronym four. So I want to open this back up

527
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 3: to Christine. Let's start with you, just because this is

528
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 3: kind of in your wheelhouse. You've been following this particular

529
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 3: issue pretty closely. What do you think about this continuing

530
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 3: to swirl around?

531
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: I mean, so just to bring people back up to

532
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: speed over the course of like like five days worth

533
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: of like actual like core testimony, right, basically, prosecution is saying, hey, look,

534
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 1: Brian Steele, you introduce this idea of young Thug being

535
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: truly humble under God as like the moniker for young Thug. Right,

536
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 1: let's go and test that a little bit. So there

537
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: has been lots of conversation and cross examination about like, okay, well,

538
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: if young Thug says he's truly humble under God? In

539
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: what ways has he actually demonstrated that. Let's go through

540
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: his catalog and so prosecution is acting. Trontavia Stevens, what

541
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: songs can you recall in which young Thug demonstrates that

542
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: he's truly humble under God? Trontavious Stevens offers this example,

543
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: Dropping Jewels, which is off of Young Thug's most recent

544
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: solo album, Punk and So as a follow up to that,

545
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: uh da, Adrian Love proceeds to quote lyrics from the

546
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: song back of Trontavia Stevens and asks, like da da,

547
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: is this young thug acting truly humble under God? Is

548
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: this young thug acting truly humble under God? So on

549
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: and so forth?

550
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 2: In Dropping Jules, does offender Williams say, I told my

551
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 2: daughter keep one in the hand. She ain't got a pocket.

552
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 5: I told my son if he wanted.

553
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 2: To live, he might catch a body. I told my

554
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 2: son he ain't a cheerleader, but you might got to

555
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 2: catch a vide his driver than Joel, But he still

556
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 2: can't do it. Slop. Are those all lines and dropping

557
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: Jewels as well? Yes to either one of those lines

558
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: refer to the defendant being truly humble under God association.

559
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: No, all right, And so the debate continues to evolve

560
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: in that Brian Steele objects and says, hey, listen, this recitation,

561
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: this dramatic reading of the song is not indicative of

562
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: how the song is performed, its overall sentiment, so on

563
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: and so forth. Let me give you the NPR tiny

564
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: disk premiere actually of this song. He did premiere live

565
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: before the song actually appeared on the album. And then

566
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: there was even conversation about, well, are they even allowed

567
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: to present this song right like or this particular performance

568
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: of the song right. There were some concerns over whether

569
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: the NPR logo should be shown in the video. There

570
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: was concerns about like whether this was the truest version

571
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: of the song possible.

572
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 9: The stay has no objection to the official audio for

573
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 9: the song being played for the jury, but not an

574
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 9: NPR concert version where you know, mister Williams can add lea,

575
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,719
Speaker 9: mister Williams can say leave out, and we would object

576
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 9: to the NPR.

577
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 5: Logo being shown. All of that if.

578
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 10: The state asked question after question and lyric after lyric,

579
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 10: not entirely, and I want to play the whole version,

580
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 10: and I should not be handcuffed by the state saying

581
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 10: specious things like they're not the identical versions, or it's

582
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 10: not the official version. I am playing with Jeffrey Williams

583
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 10: said out of his own mouth live before this jury.

584
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 10: They can see it and it's more audible.

585
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: And as I'm like watching the days of conversation, I

586
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: kept thinking, like, this is just going back to lyrics

587
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: being used to demonstrate a criminal mindset. The entire time,

588
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: I kept thinking, Okay, if we're thinking about how even

589
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: folks generally agree that lyrics should be used in a

590
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: trial like this, none of this is actually speaking to

591
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: like an overt crime. We are still talking about young thugs,

592
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: supposed character. That's what this bita is about. But I'd

593
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: be curious to hear what you guys think it's.

594
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 4: That's and that's the concern the lyrics. To me, this

595
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 4: I think this is one of the first instances that

596
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 4: showed us there's gonna be a reversal. The Court of

597
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 4: Appeals is going to come back and say this was improper.

598
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 4: You should have never prevented mister Williams, through his attorney

599
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 4: to give context to what this state elicited. You can't

600
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 4: just come in there Hey, let me play you a

601
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 4: song by my client where he talks about God and

602
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 4: he's a great guy, talks about his upbringing and it's

603
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 4: a catchy song. No, no, no, I want to play

604
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 4: it because they brought it up. It is rule of completeness.

605
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 4: It is very simple. It's not that complex. I having

606
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 4: been an attorney for that long, not as long as

607
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 4: Brian or Bruce or all the other heavy hitters in

608
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 4: that trial. But I know that when the state uses

609
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 4: something a video or an audio or something out of context,

610
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 4: we can put it in context and then the jury decides, yeah, well,

611
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 4: this should just be a slick attorney trying to trick us.

612
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 4: But no, we heard what we heard and the words

613
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 4: say what they say. But the reality is that, as

614
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 4: mister Steele said it, the inflection matters and the context matters.

615
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 4: That's why rule of completeness allows you that when they

616
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 4: want to use something I can put in in context

617
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 4: and saying that this is not the right witness, you

618
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 4: have to wait until later. That's ridiculous because the witness

619
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 4: you spoke about something the state impeached their own witness

620
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 4: with lyrics. So now let's go back, because we're talking

621
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 4: about it right now.

622
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 7: The State of Georgia said, this is what mister Williams said.

623
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 7: I'm saying, actually what he said was this, and I'm

624
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 7: putting in the completion of the story. You know what

625
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 7: the song is about. It's about coming from nothing. It's

626
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 7: about telling your kids, not that you're writing around the body.

627
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 7: It's about telling the kids, if you live under the

628
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 7: circumstances at a gentleman like mister Williams did, you may

629
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 7: have to kill somebody because they're going to kill you.

630
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 7: It's self. The State of Georgia blacked all that up

631
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 7: in little lyrics and misconstrued what they are.

632
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 5: I have every right I.

633
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 7: Need to put this in, and it's not good enough

634
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 7: to say later, judge this trial.

635
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 4: I have no clue.

636
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 7: I've never been a case like this. This trial may

637
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 7: go on till Super Bowl next year. I don't want

638
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 7: to do it in seven months. It is right now,

639
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 7: and I should have the authority to do it, your honor.

640
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 4: That song talks about how where he comes from. Sometimes

641
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 4: to survive, you might have to pull the trigger. You

642
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 4: might have to kill somebody so they don't kill you.

643
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 4: He's not saying go out there and kill everybody. But

644
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 4: he's saying, even though we live in America, the way

645
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 4: that we've been treated, the way that we've being segregated

646
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 4: into neighborhoods that no one cares about, sometimes you're going

647
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 4: to have to defend yourself because you can't trust the police.

648
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 4: That is the theme from the opening statements. The distrust

649
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 4: of the police when you grow up in the circumstances

650
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 4: is there, and you have to help yourself. Nobody is

651
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 4: saying that that song shows that he's pushing why I sail,

652
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 4: he's telling giving orders that he There's other songs that

653
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 4: are that are problematic, you know, talking about very specifically

654
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 4: about a murder that just happened. Uh, and there's details.

655
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 4: So yeah, that's that's probably very relevant. And again you

656
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 4: put it in context with the with an expert of

657
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 4: hip hop that says, in this genre music artists talk

658
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 4: about things that are happening in their neighborhood doesn't mean

659
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 4: they did it. And the jury decides. You say the

660
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 4: words as the prosecute, you read them, you read them

661
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 4: with your inflection, and then I play it. Not allowing

662
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 4: them to play that. I think it's a big mistake

663
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 4: and might bring the case back and this is this

664
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:50,879
Speaker 4: is what I don't even I think that the state

665
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 4: knows they're wrong, but they don't care. They're going to

666
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 4: they know they're going to get reversed, but they don't

667
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 4: care because the reality is that if mister Williams is

668
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 4: convicted along with his other code defendants, he will be

669
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 4: sitting in prison while they appeal the case. Even if

670
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 4: the case is reversed, it's going to take years for

671
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 4: the transcript to be typed out, sent up to the

672
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 4: Court of Appeals, for that to be litigated, then sent

673
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 4: up to the Supreme Court, because whether mister Williams and

674
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,879
Speaker 4: his co defendants win the appeal or lose it, then

675
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 4: the state is going to appeal the Court of Appeals

676
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 4: decision and that will take years. So even if all

677
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 4: of this gets thrown out, because the state keeps doing

678
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 4: improper things they shouldn't be doing and they know they

679
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 4: shouldn't be doing, mister Williams is going to be sitting

680
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 4: in prison waiting for the Court of Appeals or the

681
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 4: Supreme Court to do the right thing. And that is terrible.

682
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 4: That is absolutely terrible. You should prosecute a case with

683
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 4: the evidence you have, and you shouldn't be pushing the boundaries.

684
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 4: You shouldn't be crossing that line when you know you

685
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 4: know you're wrong. Rule of completeness is very clear. You

686
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 4: want to use the lyrics, then you're opening yourself up

687
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 4: to the jury listening to the song in the way

688
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 4: that it was meant to be delivered. It's just that simple.

689
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 4: So I I I'm very disappointed at the prosecution in this.

690
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 4: In this particular.

691
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 3: Instance, one of the things I find that's really interesting

692
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 3: about this is how it swirls around this NPR logo

693
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 3: being on the video.

694
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 9: I would ask that mister Steele not be allowed to

695
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 9: tell the jurial orient the witness by saying that it's

696
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 9: an NPR tiny desk video.

697
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 10: I would agree with that, mister Steele, and that sure over.

698
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 4: Your objection, over your objection, yes.

699
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 5: Sir, and that.

700
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:40,439
Speaker 4: He performed it.

701
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 8: So I expectfully.

702
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: Ask you not limited to.

703
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 5: Ken and put in.

704
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 7: So much character events over my objection.

705
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 10: Now they're saying we don't want n p R because

706
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 10: it somehow.

707
00:37:58,080 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 6: I don't really know how.

708
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 7: I don't really know what wrong with NPR or it's.

709
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 3: Positive with NBR like over and over, Adrian Low is

710
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 3: basically arguing that we don't want the NPR logo on

711
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 3: this video. And what that obviously says, I mean is

712
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 3: we don't want it to look like white people approve

713
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 3: of this. I mean right, Like that's that to me

714
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 3: when I'm watching that, it's like, that's what an NPR

715
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 3: logo says, Like this is a oh, it's a you know,

716
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 3: she says it's a mellow down performance or whatever. But

717
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 3: really she's arguing about the NPR logo, and they actually won.

718
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 3: They're going to have to take the NPR bug off

719
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 3: of this logo. And I just wonder what you think

720
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 3: about that.

721
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 8: I mean, again, if it was a it was a

722
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 8: beet logo, I don't think they'd be making that argument.

723
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 8: I am still struck by the fact that we have

724
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 8: spent days in court arguing over this a song that's.

725
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: Not even listed in the indictment.

726
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 8: Exactly this idea that I mean, and the underlying question

727
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 8: about like the truly humble Undergod thing like is for

728
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 8: evidentiary purposes completely irrelevant, Like I mean, stop me if

729
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 8: I'm wrong here, Like the fundamental evidentiary question is when

730
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:16,280
Speaker 8: young Thug rented a car on behalf of Little Woody,

731
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 8: did he know that car was going to be used

732
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,240
Speaker 8: in a drive by. Like, I mean, it's a very

733
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 8: plain evidence question. Like they found drugs and guns at

734
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 8: his house when he was arrested, can they prove they

735
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 8: were his or with that he was in possession of that? So, like,

736
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 8: that's a very straightforward legal evidentiary question. Whether or not

737
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 8: he is truly humble under God should not make a

738
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,720
Speaker 8: difference about whether or not he's guilty of an actual crime.

739
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 8: But here we are spending days at this And this

740
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 8: is why I'm asking this question because it seems like

741
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 8: it stopped me if I'm wrong, But both the prosecution

742
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 8: and the defense seemed to be pulling at these threads

743
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 8: hours and days and weeks at times, lengthening the trial.

744
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 8: And the jurors in that room, and this is why

745
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,240
Speaker 8: it's important that we be in that room are rolling

746
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 8: their eyes, and they're clearly uncomfortable with it.

747
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: While they're there, if they haven't been dismissed for two

748
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: hour lunch.

749
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 8: Exactly who benefits from a trial going this long in

750
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 8: this way? That's what I'd like to ask you.

751
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 4: The state will benefit anytime a trial is long, because

752
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 4: people don't want to be there as much as I

753
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 4: wish people had a respect for the privilege and the

754
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 4: honor of being a member of a jury and having

755
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 4: somebody's life or somebody's finances in your hands and making

756
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 4: the right decision. People don't want to be there. They

757
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 4: want to be in and out. They'll try to find

758
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 4: an excuse to get out of it. So if you're

759
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 4: tired of being there, if you've been there for a

760
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 4: year and a half, and you want to go to

761
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 4: your life, to your home, to your career, to your

762
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 4: dying parents, or all the life events you're missing when

763
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 4: somebody is arguing with you about whether or not the

764
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 4: evidence is there to prove that somebody is guilty, be

765
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 4: on a reasonable doubt, maybe you had some maybe had

766
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 4: some points to say, no, I don't think they proved

767
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 4: the case. But eventually you're, you know what, just whatever,

768
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 4: they probably did something wrong. Let's just say they're guilty

769
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 4: and let's go home, because a lengthy trial will always

770
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 4: go against the defense. I don't see it any other way,

771
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 4: because people just want to get out of there, and

772
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 4: truly humble under God is just something that mister Steele

773
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 4: brought up in opening hasn't even been presented as evidence,

774
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 4: But it goes to show that they don't have a

775
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 4: case because they are They're just trying to This is

776
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 4: a middle school argument. Oh no, she said there's no

777
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 4: you said this, No, you said this. Where is the evidence?

778
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 4: Because I mean, Doug is going to be an acrement

779
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 4: for many things. It means different things to different people.

780
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 4: Going back to what does this have to do with

781
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 4: the charges that you against him? Whether or not he

782
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 4: believes in God? Why don't we get into whether or

783
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 4: not God exists. Let's do that. Let's bring some experts.

784
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 4: I mean we should do that, that argument, right, I

785
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:15,359
Speaker 4: just know that. Let's it goes to show that they

786
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 4: don't know their case. They're going a day by day

787
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 4: basis and there if anything, maybe this was the genius

788
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 4: of mister Steele. Get him distracted from the other pieces

789
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,479
Speaker 4: of evidence that are hurtful because they spend more time

790
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 4: under the God thing than anything else. Right.

791
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: I mean there were actual other of the acts that

792
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: like arrest, that were talked about, but relatively speaking, there

793
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 1: was so much more bandwidth that was dedicated toward this

794
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: argument over whether young Thug is truly humble under God

795
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: or not. Because other than that, when you're talking about

796
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 1: like you know, young Thug and Gunna being arrested and

797
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: where they found drugs and guns and all that type

798
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: of stuff. A lot of times it's like they're just

799
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: recounting what already happened, and you know, some oftentimes they're saying, well,

800
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 1: that also was like however many years ago. So this

801
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: is going to be brief. I'm going to have to

802
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 1: you know, dust the cobwebs off of my collective memory.

803
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 1: But relatively speaking, like there's been so little discussion about

804
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:19,720
Speaker 1: actual overt acts related to this indictment, then this whole

805
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 1: character based debate, which is driving me crazy a little bit.

806
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:28,760
Speaker 5: We'll be back after the break.

807
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 8: I have to wonder what the loss of Lizzie Rosenwasser

808
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:40,839
Speaker 8: and Don Geary early in.

809
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: The case meant for attorneys.

810
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 8: Yeah, so two prosecutors. Don Geary, who apparently had been

811
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 8: working on this thing for nearly ten years.

812
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 5: He's the one, by the way, who says he's the

813
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 5: king Slime in our show.

814
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 8: That would be the one. Like late in twenty twenty two,

815
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 8: he quit the office, he quit the Fulton County District

816
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 8: Attorney's office. He's now a prosecutor in Gwennette County, and

817
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 8: a few months later, Elizabeth Rosenwasser, who was a well

818
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 8: respected attorney in that office, went back to the Attorney

819
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 8: General's office to go work as an Assistant Attorney General

820
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 8: in their Major Crimes unit. And so two of the

821
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 8: big heavy hitters who had been gearing up for this

822
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 8: trial were gone. And that's why Adrian Love is the

823
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 8: chief prosecutor in this case. I have to wonder whether

824
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 8: or not she was fully prepared for this.

825
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 5: He he's a hell of a task to step into.

826
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 4: We'll say, let's put it this way. When you are

827
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:47,399
Speaker 4: a public servant, which prosecutors are, they don't get paid much.

828
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 4: The main thing that the reason we do the Japanaza

829
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 4: prosecutor for the trial experience and to learn how to

830
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 4: be a great attorney. And there's amazing attorneys that are

831
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 4: our prosecutors or former prosecutors. But you don't just switch jobs.

832
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,760
Speaker 4: Will and Nielly because they didn't go into private practice

833
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 4: like Okay, she left the DA's office because she got

834
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 4: hired by King and Spaulding for seven figures. Now she

835
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 4: went just across the street to the AG's office. And

836
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,879
Speaker 4: it's probably working on many very important cases, but not

837
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 4: one of the most important cases in Georgia history. So

838
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 4: why would you leave that? Same with mister gear He

839
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 4: is a career prosecutor, I think he was. He did

840
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 4: defense for a little bit with his daughter, and then

841
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,760
Speaker 4: he went right back to prosecution because that is his calling,

842
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 4: and he's an amazing prosecutor. He's the one that prosecuted

843
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 4: the shooting of the bus of mister Carter, so he

844
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 4: knows more about this case than anybody else. Probably why

845
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 4: did he leave those Those are questions that are go

846
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 4: show the strength of the case. And you wanted to

847
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:54,399
Speaker 4: talk about Lucci, right.

848
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 3: I was just going to say, we've got a little

849
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 3: bit of a templat as to what the end of

850
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 3: this could look like. I mean, this is another high

851
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 3: profile rico trial, the rival the alleged rival gang of YSL,

852
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 3: Yfen and YFN Lucci. On January twenty third, just basically,

853
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 3: you know, his case came to a conclusion. They had

854
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 3: thirteen charges I think against him that one of them

855
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 3: was murder. So you know, these are big charges and

856
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 3: he ends up walking away with one count, pleading guilty

857
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 3: to one count of basically being involved in a gang.

858
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 5: Correct.

859
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 4: So Tom Yrigo Gaunt, not the finally murder, none of

860
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 4: the very serious charges he was accused of. And I'm

861
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 4: glad he's going to get to go home soon, and

862
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 4: I'm happy he got a great deal, and it seems

863
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 4: like a very reasonable deal.

864
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,399
Speaker 3: And that deal is mostly time served, right, and he's

865
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 3: probably going to be in jail for another three months

866
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 3: or so, right, give or take.

867
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 8: Bearing in mind, I mean he's a first defender. He's

868
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 8: never been convicted of a crime.

869
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 4: Before, just like mister Williams. Mister Williams has no family convictions.

870
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 4: I prosecuted him for a family but he completed first defender,

871
00:46:58,520 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 4: so he's not a follonin.

872
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 5: Wow, that's interesting. You were on the other side.

873
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 4: I yes, a long time ago.

874
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 5: Yes, I knew you worked for the DA's office.

875
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 3: I didn't realize you were that intimately involved with the

876
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:09,399
Speaker 3: young Thug case.

877
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:10,320
Speaker 5: That's incredible.

878
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 4: I was in again unit. I was investigating this case

879
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 4: the DA's office when I came into the case, when

880
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 4: I was appointed this and I put in my entry.

881
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 4: They found a motion to get me off the case

882
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 4: because they said I had a conflict.

883
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 5: You know how the sausages met.

884
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 4: My response was what is it that I know? What

885
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 4: do I know? What do I have in my mind

886
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 4: from ten years ago that I remember that you were

887
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 4: not planning to disclose in discovery? There is nothing I

888
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 4: know that you should not be giving out in discovery. Eventually,

889
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 4: I guess they came off of it and they gave

890
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:48,399
Speaker 4: me permission to be in the case. But it's yeah,

891
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 4: there seems to be a lot of stuff they want

892
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 4: to hide. They don't want the cameras in there. They

893
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:53,919
Speaker 4: don't want people to have intimate knowledge of the case

894
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 4: to be involved. It's concerning. But going back to mister

895
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:05,280
Speaker 4: mister Lucci, he had been in jail for years waiting

896
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 4: on a trial COVID or whatever. But still then while

897
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 4: cel truck came after his indictment and the trial got started.

898
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 4: So he's still stuck in jail. And in his case,

899
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 4: it's alleged that he was in the car where somebody

900
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 4: died because he was a drive by shooting, was retaliatory

901
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 4: or self defense or whatever. But somebody died and he

902
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 4: was physically in the car and he didn't pull the trigger.

903
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,240
Speaker 4: But party to a crime puts him on the scene

904
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 4: and makes him a member of the gang or whatever.

905
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 4: And the after they gave him is very reasonable. Somebody died,

906
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 4: so you're going to serve some years in prison. I think,

907
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 4: what was it twenty to ten. But they are asking

908
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 4: the parole to let him out once he's done a

909
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 4: third of his sentence, which he's already done most of it.

910
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:58,720
Speaker 4: Very reasonable resolution as far as I know, mister Williams,

911
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 4: I'm not his attorney, but so I know they haven't

912
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 4: even given him an offer. They haven't even say twenty

913
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 4: two turrico would they have not extended an offer. Definitely

914
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 4: not a reasonable offer for him to consider. And wait,

915
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 4: I didn't do what they said they did, but it

916
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 4: might be my best interest to take this deal and

917
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 4: go away for a couple of years, because I'd rather

918
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,280
Speaker 4: do that than risking going to trial and being convicted

919
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 4: for twenty plus twenty plus twenty for all the charges

920
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 4: he has. So even though it's the same office, it

921
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 4: is the exact same office as prosking him. It is

922
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 4: the district attorney Fani Willis in charge of both prosecutions.

923
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 4: It seems like the line prosecutors in the Luca case

924
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 4: were a lot more reasonable.

925
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 5: I mean, what's behind that? Do you think?

926
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 3: And does do you think that the resolution of the

927
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 3: YFN trial signals anything about the evidence they had? I mean,

928
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 3: are there any parallels do you think between YSL and YFN,

929
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 3: Like it seems like they got to the you know,

930
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,360
Speaker 3: they got to the finish line with YFN, and they're like,

931
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 3: maybe we don't have what we think we have, and

932
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:04,879
Speaker 3: maybe it'd be safer for us to make a deal.

933
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 3: I'm just saying as an observer who has no legal

934
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 3: very little legal knowledge, just been watching this, learning with

935
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 3: these guys, it's hard not to draw those conclusions.

936
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 4: That's one possibility, or also the possibility that when you're

937
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 4: a prosecutor, and when you become a prosecutor and you

938
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 4: go down to pack and you get trained and you

939
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 4: do all that, you have to put your right hand

940
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 4: up and you swear an oath and you say that

941
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 4: one of the things you swear too, is that you

942
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 4: will be a steward of taxpayers dollars because you're not

943
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 4: working for a big law firm that has availables. You

944
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 4: are doing your job with the public's money, and you

945
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:39,839
Speaker 4: have to use that money in best ways you can.

946
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,800
Speaker 4: That's why you have the tremendous power of prosecutory discretion.

947
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 4: That's why you don't offer the maximum and take to

948
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 4: try out every single possession of marijuana, because it's a

949
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 4: waste of resources. You want to focus on crimes that

950
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 4: involve victims, people that are hurt. In this case, there's

951
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 4: people that are hurt, right, But you want to do

952
00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,040
Speaker 4: that in a way that takes in consideration all the

953
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 4: other thousands of cases that your office has. So do

954
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 4: you want to shut down a courtroom for two years

955
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 4: a year and a half so far because of these

956
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 4: six people that you really really really want to get

957
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 4: or you want to be recent and say, you know what, guys,

958
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 4: we think we can prove it, but we don't want

959
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 4: to waste resources. And this is an offer that is

960
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 4: too good for you to say no to. Although I

961
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 4: do believe that they don't have the evidence to convict

962
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 4: mister Williams, they do have evidence that hurts the code

963
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:33,720
Speaker 4: defendens and that's why they want to keep them together.

964
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 4: That's why they fought so hard to object to serverances

965
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 4: because the evidence against other people that is pretty solid

966
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 4: will get by association a guilt to mister Williams and

967
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 4: other young men that I think little Rod, little Rod's

968
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 4: already serving life without parole. Why is he there? That

969
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 4: young man made a mistake when he was a child,

970
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 4: before his brain was fully developed. A jury determined that

971
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,479
Speaker 4: he made a mistake and that he needs to pay

972
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 4: by dying in prison. Why is he there? Why are

973
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 4: you pulling him through this? Because life in prison is

974
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 4: a lot easier than life at Rice Street. I'll tell

975
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 4: you that mister Dorsey wanted to go back to prison,

976
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 4: and many times he said, you know what, let's just

977
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 4: take it whatever, because they can't do anything else to him.

978
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 4: He's going to die in prison anyway. Just get me

979
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 4: out of here, let me go back to the system.

980
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 4: But luckily he trusted me, and I said, let's just

981
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 4: keep fighting. Let's just keep fighting, and eventually we got

982
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 4: the result what we're looking for. But people would rather

983
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 4: be in prison than in restreet.

984
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 8: This idea of jail as punishment is I mean, it's unconstitutional,

985
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 8: like flatly, But how do you get from there to

986
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 8: a federal judge who says that you can't do this?

987
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 4: I don't even know political power, because I mean political will,

988
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 4: because who wants to stand up for a bunch of

989
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 4: accused criminals?

990
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 8: Right? The thing with the wif N case, Like, so

991
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 8: there were a dozen co defendants for Raechhon Bennett Lucci,

992
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 8: one of whom was sent back to prison, like they

993
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 8: just dropped the charges and it was after a big

994
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 8: fight over discovery. Another one ended up taking a like

995
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 8: I want to say, it's a ten year deal, Like

996
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 8: I mean, go to prison ten years, like a very

997
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 8: serious deal like this is you know, that's a difficult

998
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 8: that's a difficult term to serve, Like that was not

999
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 8: that was not a sweetheart deal. And so the idea

1000
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 8: that there's this range from now we'll just drop the

1001
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:40,479
Speaker 8: charges to ten years speaks to like whatever it took,

1002
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 8: whatever they think they could get in order to end

1003
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 8: that trial, because there was a lot of information in

1004
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 8: that trial that I still want to understand better. Like

1005
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 8: the other half of all of the shootings that we're

1006
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:56,760
Speaker 8: talking about in the YSL case are in the YFN trial,

1007
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 8: who was shooting at who? Like who was getting shot

1008
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 8: at for example, shatted stillwell was shot at like in

1009
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,760
Speaker 8: an incident where one of the people in the car

1010
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 8: was killed. Like there's details there that I would have

1011
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 8: wanted to know that I'm not going to get from

1012
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,760
Speaker 8: the other side where there's a defense attorney who's probing

1013
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:27,839
Speaker 8: and pulling information and explaining in more detail, and like

1014
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 8: that's just not going to happen and intensely frustrating, and

1015
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 8: it seems to revolve around discovery. What I'm hearing from

1016
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 8: other attorneys in other cases is that the district Attorney's

1017
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:44,359
Speaker 8: office has made a habit of dumping terrorbytes of discovery

1018
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 8: at the last possible moment defendants from all sorts of

1019
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 8: different cases and then telling their attorney like, all right,

1020
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 8: now we will try it. Let's have a let's talk

1021
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 8: dealing now now that you see all of this stuff

1022
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 8: and you're realizing how hours it's going to take to

1023
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:04,879
Speaker 8: get through the discovery, like yeah, God, take some time,

1024
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 8: or or they'll finally turn over the discovery and then go,

1025
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,839
Speaker 8: you know, don't we don't have it and they'll drop

1026
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 8: the case, even though the fellow has been sitting in

1027
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 8: Rice Street for eighteen months, where that was the punishment

1028
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:23,840
Speaker 8: that they were able to to extract. None of this

1029
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 8: stuff shows up in an appeals court never, because it's

1030
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 8: never either a deal is taken or charges are dropped

1031
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,759
Speaker 8: and so there's nothing to appeal. So how do we

1032
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 8: like if this is misconduct, how did we get at it?

1033
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 4: You don't know. These prosecutors have pros Victorian immunity. They have.

1034
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,319
Speaker 4: You can't do it anything to them. You can't sue them.

1035
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 4: Even the worst thing that can happen to them is

1036
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 4: their conviction gets overturned and now there's a blemish on

1037
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 4: their conviction record. They're never gonna sit a day in

1038
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 4: a jail for any whatever they did that was improper,

1039
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 4: or pay anybody any money. They still get their pay ship.

1040
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 4: So nothing, nothing, absolutely nothing happens Toitoria misconduct. Nothing that

1041
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:07,399
Speaker 4: I've seen that should change, But I don't think it's

1042
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 4: ever going to change. And to contrast that, in the

1043
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 4: in the y Offen case with mister there was a range.

1044
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:16,879
Speaker 4: Some people got charges drop, some people got ten years

1045
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 4: in prison. Some people, I mean, Misterbnnett sentence is a

1046
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 4: teen year prison sentence. It's just eligible for Pearl. Every

1047
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:28,319
Speaker 4: single person that has resolved a YSL case got the

1048
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,479
Speaker 4: grave punishment for the horrible things they did, for putting

1049
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 4: Atlanta As in a horrible situation for years. They got probation.

1050
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 4: Probation that's what you get when you have a DUI.

1051
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 4: That's what you get when you do shoplifting.

1052
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, is there anything else that you feel like is

1053
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 1: important to point out as you're taking this all in.

1054
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 4: I think there is a need for the legislature and

1055
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 4: the judges. The judges have power to break up this

1056
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 4: ridiculous long, multi codefendent prosecution that do not work. Let's

1057
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 4: go back to the insurrection people try to take over

1058
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 4: the capital back in January sixth, and the FETs have

1059
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,799
Speaker 4: done an amazing job holding people accountable for what they did,

1060
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 4: one by one by one, without wasting people's the people's

1061
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 4: money and time, without having jurors sit there for months

1062
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 4: or years. There's better ways to prosecute cases. And just

1063
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 4: wanting to put a notch in your belt because you

1064
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 4: had the biggest, longest running trial is not proper. The

1065
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 4: judges sholl sever them anytime somebody comes up with we

1066
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 4: have sixty some co defendents that were hanging out at

1067
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 4: a forest. Let's have sixty trials. Then you want to

1068
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 4: do this, let's do it one by one. Let's stop

1069
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 4: this nonsense where it puts pressure on people to cooperate

1070
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 4: or to turn state, or to take a deal that

1071
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 4: is probably not a great deal. Just to avoid being

1072
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 4: in a trial for months, because even if you're not

1073
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 4: in jail, jail is a big factor. But let's talk

1074
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 4: about the Maga case. Some of those people took deals

1075
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 4: because they can't afford an attorney. Mester Trump is not

1076
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 4: their pay for their legal bills. I mean, I think

1077
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 4: mister Giuliani, what has he got like three hundred dollars

1078
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 4: in the bank account. It costs money to have an

1079
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:22,240
Speaker 4: attorney seat with you there non stop, and some people

1080
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 4: can't afford it, and that is not fair. That's not just.

1081
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 4: These people are presumed innocent and they should have a

1082
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 4: trial that's a reasonable trial without the waste of resources.

1083
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 4: That's how I feel.

1084
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 5: Well, thank you so much. That's a great, great note

1085
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 5: to end on.

1086
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 3: We are on video now. If you're watching this on YouTube,

1087
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 3: you already know that. But if you're listening to this

1088
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 3: as a podcast, know that you can find us on

1089
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 3: YouTube on.

1090
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:48,400
Speaker 5: The Iheard YouTube channel.

1091
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 3: Don't do this, so check that out and we'll be

1092
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 3: back with more guests. We're posting every other Wednesday, and

1093
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 3: we'll be back in another two weeks.

1094
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 1: King Slime is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Heirloom Media.

1095
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 8: It's written and produced by George Cheedy, Christina Lee, and Tommy.

1096
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 1: Andres, mixing sound design and original music by Evan Tyre

1097
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 1: and Taylor Chakoi.

1098
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 8: The executive producer and editor is Tommy Andres.

1099
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 1: Our theme music is by Done Deal Special thanks to

1100
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:35,760
Speaker 1: Carl Catle.

1101
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 8: For more shows from iHeart Podcasts, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1102
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 8: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.