1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: My name is Eva Longoria and I am my Traon 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:09,479 Speaker 1: and welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast that explores 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: our past and present through food. On every episode, we'll 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: talk about the history of some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, 5 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: and beverages from our culture. 6 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 2: So make yourself at home. Even Brochel, you know, I'm 7 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 2: a salty, savory type of gal. So if I'm gonna 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 2: eat desserts, violin up and it has to be worth it, 9 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:33,599 Speaker 2: and it's gotta be Mexican. 10 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 3: I agree. 11 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,160 Speaker 4: But being from Texas, I'm also a peacm pie kind 12 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 4: of girl. 13 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 2: So am I I'm well Peacan pie. This episode is 14 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 2: all about our favorite dessert. 15 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 3: I am excited about this episode. 16 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,279 Speaker 4: You texted me a while ago and you're like, have 17 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 4: you done a dessert episode? And I was like, Eva 18 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 4: was asking about desserts because you know, the only reason 19 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 4: that I eat is so that I could have dessert. 20 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 2: Oh my god, you could eat dessert anytime of day. 21 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 3: I love dessert. 22 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 4: It is I mean the dessert to me, it's more 23 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:05,479 Speaker 4: than the sweet ending to a meal. 24 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 3: It is the main reason for the meal. 25 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 2: I will say I like cake and pies sometimes, like 26 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 2: I love a pie. I love a I love a toiton. 27 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 2: That's that's I do like a lemon tart. You are 28 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 2: a big fan. 29 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 3: Of flown, right, I love flat. It's like my favorite. 30 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 4: And I actually I make I have a little side 31 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 4: hustle selling flat. 32 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 3: I'm serious. I it's so. 33 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 5: Funny because for me and my mom does this to 34 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 5: anything anything good happens anybody, anything bad happens, like somebody dies, 35 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 5: somebody has a party. 36 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,119 Speaker 3: Somebody whatever. It's like, we bring a flat and it is. 37 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 2: It cures. 38 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 4: So and I used to bring my flat like to 39 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 4: people and during pandemic, I would like drop flans up 40 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 4: people's houses and everyone like, oh my god, it's amazing. 41 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 3: You should sell it. So I started. I started selling it. 42 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 3: So I have a little little flants. 43 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 2: I'll try I'll try your flann because you tried my 44 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 2: Turkish eggs. Where did flawonn come from? Like, well, fly 45 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 2: it couldn't couldn't have been Mexican And no, it wasn't Mexican. 46 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 2: There's no dairy, there's no sugar. 47 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 4: But the essence of flawn has been recorded since Roman 48 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 4: you know time. So the domestication of chicken became common 49 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 4: during the Roman Empire. So they had a surplus of eggs, 50 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 4: so they would often transform them into custards. The flans 51 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 4: prepared by the ancient Romans were very different from what 52 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 4: we you know, know of as flann today, savory custters 53 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 4: like eel flawn. We see sweet flants made with honey 54 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 4: and pepper, which is kind of unusual. And so when 55 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 4: the Romans Sprare spread their culinary traditions throughout Europe, they 56 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 4: included these sweet and savory you know flanns. So during 57 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 4: the Middle Ages we see a lot of flants made 58 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 4: with almonds and cinnamon and sugar, but then also with 59 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 4: saffron and wine and you know, cheese with fish and spinach. 60 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 4: So these sort of flands were popular, especially during Lent 61 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 4: when meat was was forbidden, you know, according to Platina. 62 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 4: We talked about Platino in our cookbook episode the guy 63 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 4: that was you know that that was that. 64 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 3: Was stealing recipes. 65 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 4: In his cookbook, he has a couple of custard style 66 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 4: dishes that were considered health food. They were thought to soothe, Yeah, 67 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 4: isn't that interesting. Soothe the chest, ate the kidneys and liver, 68 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 4: increased fertility and eliminate certain urinary tract problems. 69 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: And then of course chocolate flawn that I have in 70 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 2: my cook book is a variation in in Puerto Rico, 71 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 2: it's called flan that's made with yellow cake. 72 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 4: Sometimes made with yellow cake. Yeah, and I didn't realize 73 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 4: that chocolan. I've always known it as chocolate flan, which 74 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 4: is that's what you call it in your book, right, Yeah, 75 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 4: choco chocolate flant. But its Mexico's also called pastelimpus even 76 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 4: this impossible cake or meliace, which means you know, midnight. 77 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 2: You think sweetness is ingrained in us, You think it's biological. 78 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 3: I think it's biological. 79 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 4: I mean that's what you were saying when Cynthia was little, 80 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 4: like he wanted, you know, something sweet. So it's when 81 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 4: things are bitter or when things are really salty in nature, 82 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 4: it sort of screams warning. So when something is sweet, 83 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 4: we're sort of drawn to it. 84 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 2: But from a biological standpoint, desserts are unnecessary. Like when 85 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 2: you talk about a dessert, you're stepping away from your 86 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 2: basic human needs and you're talking about I think you're 87 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 2: talking about culture, because most sweets are really cultural based, 88 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 2: whether you know India or Mexican or Chinese or Jewish Rushishana. 89 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: Like I really think when you talk about sweets, you 90 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 2: talk about culture. 91 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 4: I agree, I agree, and almost like talking about and 92 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 4: desserts are so beautiful, right, so it's almost like when 93 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 4: you're talking about a dessert, you're it's like talking about art, right, 94 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 4: the sort of creation of sweets, and you know with 95 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 4: the sugar and some of the earliest recorded sweets were 96 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 4: made from honey and nuts and fruit, going way way 97 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 4: back in history to ancient Mesopotamia, so there's this connection. 98 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 3: You know, sweets were offered to the. 99 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 4: Gods, and so there was all of this ceremony around 100 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 4: sweets run desserts. And during the Middle Ages in Europe, 101 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 4: they became more and more elaborate with the addition of spices, 102 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 4: and they started making marzipan and cakes with cinnamon and 103 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 4: gems so and even like in during the Renaissance and Venice, 104 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 4: the same people that would make the confections were also 105 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 4: skilled sculptors and they were making these or nat sugar monuments. 106 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 4: And in France, these pastry chefs conducted these edible buildings 107 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 4: that the famed nineteenth century pastry chef antonin Karem declared 108 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 4: pitits a branch of architecture. 109 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 3: It's an art. 110 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 2: Well, I will say, you know, baking, I'm not a baker, 111 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 2: but being a pastry chef is highly technical. That is 112 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 2: a hard skill because like a gorgeous dessert is, it's 113 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 2: perfectly crafted. And I think because of this, desserts make 114 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 2: dining a multi sensory experience, right, because you have like 115 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 2: the look of it, the feel of it, the texture 116 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 2: of it. You you sometimes say it's like a virtuo 117 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 2: soul musical performance. 118 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 4: Yes, and you I mean I always have to end 119 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 4: a meal with the dessert. So when you go out 120 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 4: to a restaurant, you don't you don't order dessert. 121 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 2: No, never, no, no. My husband gets so mad because 122 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 2: after we finish our meal, I'm like check and he goes, 123 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: we haven't had coffee or dessert and I'm like, nope, nope, 124 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: we have cookies at home. 125 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, Well we have to go to dinner 126 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 4: with enfluence on my brother because he will order. There 127 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 4: will be three people and he will all five desserts, 128 00:06:58,080 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 4: like we have to taste back. 129 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 3: So it is like this virtuoso you know performance. 130 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 2: Where did like the concluding of a course is a 131 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 2: dessert like where did that come from? 132 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 4: It's a French custom that developed very slowly over several 133 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 4: hundred years, but it didn't really reach its current form 134 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 4: until the twentieth century. So this sweet conclusion to a 135 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 4: meal is relatively recent. 136 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 2: Well, I want to know how this pastry, you know, 137 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 2: dessert thing arrived to Mexico. So when we come back, 138 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 2: we're going to dive into the history of Mexican posters. 139 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 3: That's after the break. 140 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 2: Obviously, I remember, you know, we didn't have sugar, we 141 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 2: don't have flour in Mexico. So like, when were all 142 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 2: these things introduced? 143 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 4: Well, it's we touched upon this a little bit when 144 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 4: we did our candy episode last year. So during the 145 00:07:56,080 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 4: eighth century, the Moors introduced sugar, cane and almonds and 146 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 4: rice and all of the Islamic confectionery, which was which 147 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 4: was so grand to me. Lucia Spain and the Spanish 148 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 4: nuns developed a sweet tooth and derived from these Islamic practices, 149 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 4: they started using fruits and candies and conserves and marz 150 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 4: and pans, and started making custards with egg yolks and sugar, 151 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 4: so we see flun So once Mexico was conquered, all roads. 152 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 3: Lead to Flan is what I alas. 153 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 4: So when Mexico was conquered, these traditions traveled to the Americas, right, 154 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 4: We've talked about the Manila Galleons, you know, so many times. 155 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 4: And they traveled between Acapulcan and Manila, and they brought 156 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 4: sugar cane, you know, to Mexico, and sugar flourished in 157 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 4: the New World. And so these Mexican desserts developed in 158 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 4: colonial convents. So cooking was one of the duties of nuns. 159 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 4: And these early nuns combined their dessert making traditions that 160 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 4: they brought over from Spain and combined them with native 161 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 4: ingredients like vanilla and chocolate and creating these very unique results. 162 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 4: There's one nun in particular, so Juana and Nez La 163 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 4: Cruz and yes, I love her is the early love. 164 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:26,599 Speaker 4: The earliest kitchen manuscript in Mexico in the seventeenth centuries undated, 165 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 4: but she lived between sixteen forty eight and sixteen ninety five, 166 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 4: so this earliest collection of recipes is credited to her. 167 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 4: She lived in work in Mexico City, in the convent 168 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 4: of San Caronimo, and she left thirty six recipes and 169 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 4: most of them are for desserts and candy. So you 170 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:52,199 Speaker 4: see this really interesting cultural mixing in early Mexican cuisine. 171 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:56,439 Speaker 2: Explain to me the indigenous culture at this time. 172 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 4: That we don't really see the indigenous presence in the 173 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 4: desserts that she left. You know, she grew up in Nepantland, 174 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 4: she grew up among indigenous people. We see this sort 175 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 4: of reflection in some of the recipes that she left. 176 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 3: So she has things like haminy. We just made posle 177 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 3: the other day, right, So. 178 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 4: You see mancha mantele, so you see these native ingredients, 179 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 4: you see Chile's, you see corn, you see massa. But 180 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 4: in the desserts are still very a lot of nuts, 181 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 4: a lot of eggs, a lot of sugar, So we 182 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 4: don't really see vanilla as would be the only really 183 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 4: thing that we see that is that is, you know, 184 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 4: endemic to Mexico. 185 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 2: I love that she used poetry and philosophy to talk 186 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 2: about the transformation of ingredients, and philosophy is about the 187 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 2: sensory pleasures of food. And she was I mean, you 188 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,359 Speaker 2: should Readana because she's amazing. She was a huge feminist. 189 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 2: She constantly critiqued mesa genistic views of high profile religious men. 190 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 2: She confronted them directly through letters and essays, and she 191 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 2: always defended the right of women to receive an education. 192 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,959 Speaker 2: She's amazing, so I would I would read anything she wrote, 193 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 2: including recipes. 194 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 4: We see things like ante this, these sponge cakes that 195 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 4: were bathed and sugar syrup and fruit pulp and adorned 196 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 4: with dried fruits. Something called webbos reales like royal eggs. 197 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 4: That was a tart of egg yolk with orange blossom water, sugar, cinnamon, 198 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 4: and lime juice. And she has she has a number 199 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 4: of recipes for. 200 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:42,719 Speaker 3: These fried sweet fritters. 201 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 4: There's a herika ya, which is like a sweet custard 202 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 4: with milk and eggs and vanilla and cinnamon, similar to 203 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 4: a flam and then a something called a bien messalve, 204 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,559 Speaker 4: which literally chans it to it tastes good to me. 205 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 4: That was like a rice tart similar to. 206 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 2: Interesting. Do you like aro school letcher? I do. 207 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 3: I love araskol. 208 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 4: I used to hate it when I was a kid, 209 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 4: but now it is one of my favorite things. 210 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 2: Do you It's okay? You know I'm not a sweet person, 211 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 2: but I know it's been around forever in like different forms, 212 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 2: in many countries do. I feel like a lot of 213 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 2: countries have aroskoon lecha. So where did aroskoon lecha start? 214 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 2: It must have been Asia, right, because is that where 215 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 2: rice comes from. 216 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 4: There's a really wonderful food history in Katia Chaya who 217 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 4: says that the origin of rice pudding can be traced 218 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 4: back to something called kire that was a dessert with 219 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 4: roots in ancient China. But you know, it's been around 220 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 4: in many forms in many countries for centuries. So people 221 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 4: from the UK will tell you it was invented there. 222 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 4: People from India will say that it's an Indian dish, 223 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 4: and same for you know, China and Greece and Italy 224 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 4: and even Mexico. 225 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 2: But do you what country do you think is most 226 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 2: famous for autro school lecture today? 227 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 4: Well, I'm going to say Mexico, right, because that's me too. 228 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 3: When Mexico that's the but. 229 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 2: You know somebody for I don't know in the UK. 230 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 2: In the UK they have rice pudding a lot. 231 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 4: It's such a comforting dish and one of the earliest 232 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 4: known recipes dates to the thirteenth century al Andalus cookbook. 233 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 3: That's the book. 234 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 2: Luis Yeah, book of Andalucia. 235 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 4: The rice pudding that we have in Mexico, the one 236 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 4: that we sort of grew up with even in South Texas, 237 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 4: would have had roots in these recipes from Andalucia that 238 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 4: came from the moors. 239 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 2: Did you grow up eating pea campi? 240 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 3: I love pea campi. 241 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 4: I don't have memories of eating pea campi at home 242 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 4: unless it's like Thanksgiving. 243 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 2: You know, well I do. We're going to dive into 244 00:13:50,840 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 2: that after the break cheefsk that a guesso? Oh my god? 245 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,839 Speaker 2: So you know when I was shooting searching for Spain. 246 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 2: The most famous guesso comes from the Basque country. Uh 247 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 2: San Sebastian specifically, there's a there's a Lavignya. It's a restaurant. 248 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 2: Line is around the corner. An hour before it opens. 249 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 2: They just make cheesecake. It's like burnt at the top. 250 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 2: It's like four feet tall that it is so thick, 251 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 2: and it's creamy and it's very eggy. It's almost more 252 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 2: savory than sweet. I was in London. I went to 253 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 2: a restaurant and on the dessert menu they said, we 254 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 2: have a Basque cheesecake. Like it's a thing. Now, it's 255 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 2: like it's a Basque cheesecake is like the most the 256 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 2: most famous one. Now, but where did cheesecake begin? 257 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 4: I think that when you messaged me you had just 258 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 4: gone there, you had just had this cheesecake, because that 259 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 4: basque cheesecake they invented in the nineteen nineties, so not 260 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 4: that long ago, right, But this is like the thing. 261 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 4: So ancient Greek is credited as the birthplace of democracy, philosophy, theater, 262 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 4: and cheesecake, so it goes back cheesecake. There is a 263 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 4: book from the third century called The Learned Banqueters. It's 264 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 4: actually a poem and the author Athanaeis He instructed home 265 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 4: cooks to take some cheese and pound it before riding 266 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 4: honey and wheat flour and forming it into a mass. Right, 267 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 4: so this is some sort of cheesecake, right, some sort 268 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 4: of cheesecake was going on there. It sounds like a 269 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 4: cheesecake different than our modern cheesecake. But this suggests that 270 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 4: you know, this dessert may have existed now for some time. 271 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 3: This may not have been the first one. 272 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 4: Once things end up in print and writing in some 273 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 4: way that that means that it's been around. So, but 274 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 4: there are also some historians that believe a version of 275 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 4: cheesecake was served as far back as seven seven six BC, 276 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 4: so this is a thousand years earlier than this poem 277 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 4: when the inaugural Olympic Games took place, And anthropologists have 278 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 4: found cheese moules on the Greek island of Samos that 279 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 4: are even older, dating back to about two thousand BC. 280 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 3: So in some sort of cheese honey mixture was. 281 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 4: Being made way way way way back in the day, 282 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 4: and then the spread, like everything, this spread throughout, you know, 283 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 4: throughout Europe, and then English colonists are said to have 284 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 4: introduced it to North America. Cheesecakes were included in early 285 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 4: colonial manuscripts, including those of William Penn's family in Pennsylvania 286 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 4: around seventeen seventy there was an Italian restaurant in Laredo 287 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 4: growing up that had the best cheesecake with whipped cream, 288 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 4: like you know the can that they whipped cream and 289 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 4: then they would drizzle it with chocolate syrup. Oh my gosh, 290 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 4: I do love a good cheesecake. 291 00:16:57,920 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 3: So if you figure out. 292 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 4: How to make that cheesecake, calm, it's made with it's 293 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 4: made with cream cheese. Yeah, because when cheesecake started to 294 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 4: become really popular in the States in the nineteenth century 295 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 4: when Philadelphia clean. 296 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 3: Cream cheese became super available. 297 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 4: So all of these immigrants from Eastern Europe, from Italy, 298 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 4: you know, they started making cheesecakes. 299 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 2: Lavinia uses the Philadelphia brand cream cheese. 300 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 3: Oh really, huh. 301 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is possible that the composition of a Spanish 302 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 2: Philadelphia cream cheese is different than other countries because you 303 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 2: know how like even dan and yogurt here in America, 304 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 2: it's like eighty four ingredients and chemicals. Dan and yogurt 305 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 2: in Europe is three ingredients and you're like, wait what Yeah, 306 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 2: so it might work better because the cream the Philadelphia 307 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 2: brand cream cheese might be different in Spain. Also interesting, 308 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 2: the cake could work with marscapone with. 309 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 4: Both muscarpone and Philadelphia cream cheese, or one for the either. 310 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 4: Or I I wonder if if you mix the mix 311 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 4: the two, it would be really delicious. 312 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 2: Oh it's so easy. So I found the Lavina recipe supposedly, 313 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 2: but we'll see, I'm gonna make it. 314 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 3: Call me. I'll be right over. 315 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 2: So I grew up in Nuasis County, which isis yes 316 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 2: and Nouisa for us as a pecan not all nuts 317 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 2: because in Mexico, noises are all nuts and pecans are 318 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 2: native to North America. Yes, I grew up eating peacampi. 319 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 4: My mom has so many pecan trees in her backyard. 320 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 3: They're like weeds. They grow, They're like, yeah, pineyweeds. Crack them. 321 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 2: They would fall everywhere in the yard. We'd get it, 322 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 2: crack it, eat it, I say, with pecans. So that's 323 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 2: what we always made, pecan pie. But it's not easy. 324 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 2: By the way, pecan pie is like not labor intensive. 325 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 2: It's just messy and sticky. 326 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 3: And super sticky. 327 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 2: So you grew up making it at home. 328 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 3: It's like were growing up, Oh we never did. 329 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 4: We Also we would pick the pecan and then we 330 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 4: had them in this big basket, not a basket, but 331 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 4: like a plate with the nutcracker, and we would just 332 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 4: sit there and just eat. That's one of my most 333 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 4: vivid memories of my grandfather was just sitting there eating 334 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 4: pecans with a little glass of I don't know if 335 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 4: it was poor or sherry or something. 336 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 3: He would have his sherry and he would eat pecans. 337 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 2: By the way, I love pig on pie. I grew 338 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 2: up with peacamp pac But why it's a weird thing. 339 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 2: Like it's like it's like this filling that's kind of 340 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 2: solidified with pecans on top, Like how did this come 341 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 2: to be? 342 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's like the corn syrup, right, it's 343 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 4: like so heavy. Well, the earliest printed pecan pie recipes 344 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 4: began popping up in Texas cookbooks in the eighteen seventies 345 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 4: and eighteen eighties. But the first recipe that most closely 346 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,439 Speaker 4: resembles what we know today as the Pea campi was 347 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 4: published in eighteen ninety eight in a church charity cookbook 348 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,719 Speaker 4: in se Lewis, Missouri. But it was sent by a 349 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 4: Texas woman, right, so suggesting, oh this is this is 350 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 4: a sort of kind of pies. But by the beginning 351 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,919 Speaker 4: of the twentieth century, recipes for pecan pie had started 352 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 4: appearing outside of Texas, but it wouldn't become super popular 353 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 4: until the nineteen twenties. And that's when the manufacturer of 354 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 4: Caro syrup began printing a recipe for precan pie on 355 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 4: the cans of the product. And this is a book 356 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,199 Speaker 4: called the Pecan A History of America is Native Not 357 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 4: by James McWilliams noted this. The wide distribution of Caro 358 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 4: syrup introduced many people to pecan pie. 359 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 3: Is that what you would use? Would you use a 360 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 3: carro syrup? 361 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 2: Yep, caro syrup. 362 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 4: It has to be carro syrup, Cara syrup, eggs, sugar, butter, vanilla, 363 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,479 Speaker 4: and just a buttload of pecans and sometimes with rusted 364 00:20:54,600 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 4: with bourbon or rum My brother Alfonso, sweet tooth Galore, 365 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 4: he makes a damn good PECOMPI. 366 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 2: Well, thank you guys for listening to this sugary, delicious 367 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 2: episode about Thank you so much and see you all 368 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 2: next week. Hungary for History is a Hyphenite media production 369 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 2: in partnership with Iheart's Michael Bura podcast network. 370 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 4: For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app, 371 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 4: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.