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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Set Pod. Next,

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Speaker 1: my guest today was Pat Simmons of the Doobie Bills. Pat,

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Speaker 1: it's a thrill to talk to you. I thank you,

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Speaker 1: Bob appreciated your ticket the time with me. So you

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Speaker 1: and Tom have a new book about the Doobie Brothers

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Speaker 1: Long Tream Running. How did that come to be? Let's see, Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I always thought I would write a book

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Speaker 1: about the band, and then I you know, I kind

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Speaker 1: of started doing stuff for years ago and never really happened.

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Speaker 1: And then I thought, you know, it's probably never gonna happen,

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Speaker 1: and I was doing let's see, I I was, I was.

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Speaker 1: This is a little convoluted here, but I was on

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Speaker 1: a at a motorcycle event. It was something called the

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Speaker 1: Cannonball Uh antique motorcycle and Earns run and my wife

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Speaker 1: and I have done it quite a few times, and

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Speaker 1: it's a motorcycle ride across country on antique motorcycles. I've

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Speaker 1: been into old bikes forever and so we were on

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Speaker 1: our old bikes. I had my nineteen fourteen Hourly to

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Speaker 1: Speed and she was on her nineteen twin and we

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Speaker 1: had made it. Oh gosh, kind of a cross country.

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Speaker 1: I think my bike had blown up by that time,

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Speaker 1: but she was still riding her bike. And we we

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Speaker 1: had scheduled to do an interview with a guy from

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Speaker 1: the Huffington Post and his name is Crips Chris Epting,

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Speaker 1: and he wanted to do an article about the ride

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Speaker 1: and about our participation, and it came through, you know,

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Speaker 1: the the band's publicist at the time, and so he

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Speaker 1: showed up. We were sometime somewhere down out in the

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Speaker 1: Palm Desert, somewhere. We had made it that far, and

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Speaker 1: uh so, Chris showed up and he took some pictures

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Speaker 1: and started talking with us, and we did this interview

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Speaker 1: and it came out in the Huffington Post and it

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Speaker 1: was just a really nice little article about the ride

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Speaker 1: and my wife and I ended up being more about

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Speaker 1: my wife than me. So uh So, then we played

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Speaker 1: in San Diego, probably I don't know, a week later.

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Speaker 1: I went right back on the road from this ride,

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Speaker 1: ridden across country and then boom, I'm back on tour

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Speaker 1: with the band and we're in San Diego playing and

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Speaker 1: Chris lives down there. He said, you know, I'd like

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Speaker 1: to come to the show. And so came to the

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Speaker 1: show and after sometime during the course of events, while

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Speaker 1: he was there, it around in our my hotel room.

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Speaker 1: My wife and I were both there, and he said,

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Speaker 1: you know, do you guys have a biography about the band?

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Speaker 1: Anybody ever write a book about the band? I said no,

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Speaker 1: and told him the same thing I said to you

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Speaker 1: that it was always something on my bucket list, but

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Speaker 1: I had never done any goes. Well, you know, I

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Speaker 1: just got done writing a book with John Oates kind

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Speaker 1: of about his life and you know, his take on

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Speaker 1: his participation in Hall of Oates. And he said, you know,

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Speaker 1: I you know, if you're into it, I could help

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Speaker 1: you get started on something. So I said, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe we could talk to the rest of the band,

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Speaker 1: and so we went in. I had a little meeting

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Speaker 1: with myself and Tommy and John McPhee was there as well,

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Speaker 1: and started talking about it, and Chris said, I could

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Speaker 1: you know, I could help you. I could either you

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Speaker 1: could do interviews with me and I could uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: right stuff and it would sort of be He said,

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Speaker 1: I think it would be most interesting to have it

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Speaker 1: from your you guys joint vantage point, you know, Tommy

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Speaker 1: and I you you started the band and you're still

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Speaker 1: doing it, so it would be you know, you'd have

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Speaker 1: a really great overview. So um, that was how it

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Speaker 1: came about. And in the end, you know, I would

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Speaker 1: say Tommy and I probably wrote more than Chris in

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Speaker 1: the end. He would write, he wrote things, and he's

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Speaker 1: a great writer, and but sometimes he'd send me something

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Speaker 1: back and I think that's not the way I would

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Speaker 1: tell that story. And then I would just sit down

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Speaker 1: at my computer and I would retype, you know, the

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Speaker 1: whole thing kind of more a little bit more from

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Speaker 1: my perspective or more in my own voice. And but

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Speaker 1: it was really Chris's prompting that that helped us to

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Speaker 1: put it together, helped us to you know, dust off

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Speaker 1: the cob webs and remember events. It was funny, you know,

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Speaker 1: we as we did it. Uh. We we wrote things

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Speaker 1: and I would think, well, that's good, there's a story.

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Speaker 1: And then i'd I'd read it and I'd go, oh,

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Speaker 1: I forgot about this or I forgot about that, and go, Christal,

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Speaker 1: I have time to put this in. And you go, sure,

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Speaker 1: you know you want to write it or you want

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Speaker 1: me to interview in. We'll put it together and I go, well,

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Speaker 1: let me try it, and so I would sit down

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Speaker 1: and write and it became a It was a lot

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Speaker 1: of work because it took us literally years to do it,

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Speaker 1: but it was fun at the same time to to

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Speaker 1: remember things and and it was from from my perspective anyway,

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Speaker 1: it was something that I originally wanted to do myself.

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Speaker 1: So being having that opportunity to actually sit down with

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Speaker 1: my own in my own voice and with my computer

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Speaker 1: to write it myself, I enjoyed that aspect of it.

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Speaker 1: So so that was it. And uh, you know, um,

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Speaker 1: you've got to thank Chris for you know, prodding us

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Speaker 1: to get the project going, because really, I don't I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it would have ever gotten off the

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Speaker 1: ground if it hadn't been for him. Now, the two

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Speaker 1: points in the book that stuck out for me were

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Speaker 1: the transition from Tom to Michael McDonald. There was a

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Speaker 1: lot more detail than we've ever seen in the press,

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Speaker 1: and a number of negative comments about Skunk Baxter at

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Speaker 1: the end of his tenure. How did you feel about

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Speaker 1: writing that stuff? Was that something well, I'm just writing

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Speaker 1: the truth, or you were fearful that Skunk would not

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Speaker 1: like it? What was going through your mind all of that. Absolutely. Um,

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Speaker 1: I h that was a very difficult time and a

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Speaker 1: difficult um you know, with with Tommy leaving the band,

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Speaker 1: that was a horrible time for me personally. UM. Thanks

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Speaker 1: to Jeff for really uh standing by me and and

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Speaker 1: you know I got a hand it to him. I

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Speaker 1: think he was really strong at that point in at

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Speaker 1: that transition as it as it turned out, you know,

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Speaker 1: it just kind of went to went to hell in

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Speaker 1: terms of his relationship with with the band. You know,

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Speaker 1: in the end, kind of sad I was. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know exactly how to present that in the end. I

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Speaker 1: just kind of wrote it up the way it happened.

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Speaker 1: You know. That was probably the only real kind of

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Speaker 1: negative moment for me with anybody in the band in

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Speaker 1: terms of kind of a rough road to maneuver. But

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Speaker 1: you know, I felt like that was that was the

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Speaker 1: way it went, and that was the way I wrote it. Now,

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Speaker 1: subsequent to the band breaking up in the early eighties,

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Speaker 1: and there were a couple of charity gigs. Have you

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Speaker 1: seen Skunk? Do you have any relationship with Skunk? I

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Speaker 1: have seen him, Yeah, sure, UM, not not a lot. Ideologically,

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Speaker 1: we don't. We don't mesh. You know, Um, I don't

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Speaker 1: know how far to get into politics because it really

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Speaker 1: is political and you know what I mean, well, I

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Speaker 1: won't say political ideological, but but these days, you know,

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Speaker 1: ideological and political are kind of the same thing. So

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Speaker 1: um yeah, I just I don't I don't buy the

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Speaker 1: right wing, you know, sort of militaristic, ah intolerant if

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Speaker 1: you will, attitude about that part of our of our country.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back to the motorcycle. So how did you

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Speaker 1: get into motorcycles? Let's see, Well, you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: I had friends in high school that that row, and

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Speaker 1: they were always encouraging me to get into bikes. And

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Speaker 1: I my first, you know, probably serious girlfriend's brother, um

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Speaker 1: road with He had an old gosh, it was in

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Speaker 1: nineteen forty forty one Knucklehead Harley that he wrote that

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Speaker 1: was his everyday transportation. Really, I don't even think he

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Speaker 1: had a car at that point. And I loved that bike.

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Speaker 1: I just admired the bike so much. And I had

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Speaker 1: I had ridden, um you know, Hondas and stuff, and

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Speaker 1: um not nothing I ever owned. It always belonged to

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Speaker 1: my friends, and I rode and then one day this

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Speaker 1: buddy of mine, Bill said, you know, I have a

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Speaker 1: B S A four. He went, Victor, it's up in

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Speaker 1: northern California at the guy's house and I loaned it

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Speaker 1: to him to ride. And uh, I can't remember. We

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Speaker 1: had probably talked about it at one point, he said,

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Speaker 1: but that bike's up in northern California. He said, I

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Speaker 1: gave it to him to ride, and he's not riding it.

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Speaker 1: So you know, if if you want to ride that bike,

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Speaker 1: all you gotta do is go up and get it

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Speaker 1: and you can ride it. So I said, oh, let's go.

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Speaker 1: So we jumped in. I had a little MGB hatchback

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Speaker 1: and we jumped in that car and we drove up

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Speaker 1: to Crescent City, which is way up in northern California,

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Speaker 1: right on the Oregon border. And uh. We got to

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Speaker 1: the guy's place late at night and he said, you know,

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Speaker 1: where's the bike. He said, Oh, it's in over and

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Speaker 1: my dad's business. It's in the garage. His dad had

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Speaker 1: some kind of a of a business, screen door business

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Speaker 1: or something. He goes over there and we can go

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Speaker 1: get it in the morning. So so we stayed the night.

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Speaker 1: We got up in the morning, we went over there

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Speaker 1: and we walked and go where's the bike and he

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Speaker 1: points over in the corner. He goes, it's over there,

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Speaker 1: and we look at a bunch of cardboard boxes and

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Speaker 1: the bike was completely disassembled. So there's the engine here,

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Speaker 1: the frames laying there and stuff is you know, not

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Speaker 1: completely the engine had not been disassembled. Luckily, it was

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Speaker 1: still in one piece. So anyway, we we Uh. My

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Speaker 1: buddy says, well, we're taking the bike and he goes, yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I tried to fix it. He goes, I was gonna

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Speaker 1: I'm fixing it. He goes, if you're fixing it, why

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Speaker 1: did you tear it all to apart? And he goes, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we just thought that's what we needed to do.

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Speaker 1: And he goes, I shook our heads. So put it

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Speaker 1: in the back of my hatchback and I, you know,

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Speaker 1: I tied the back. It couldn't even fit it in there, really,

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Speaker 1: so it's hanging out the back. And we drove back

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Speaker 1: up north and we got to San Jose and there

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Speaker 1: was still it was in those days, it was late sixties,

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Speaker 1: there was still a B. S. A dealership in San Jose.

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Speaker 1: So we stopped either and I picked up a manual,

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Speaker 1: a repair manual, took it home, laid it all out

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Speaker 1: and started putting it together. I had my manual there

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Speaker 1: and I started putting the bike together, and then my

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Speaker 1: girlfriend's uh brother came over and he kind of gave

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Speaker 1: me a few pointers. All I really had for tools

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Speaker 1: was like a couple of screwdrivers and a pair of

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Speaker 1: pliers in a crescent ranch. That was kind of the

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Speaker 1: extent of my tool collection. But believe it or not,

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Speaker 1: you can do a lot with with that. And so

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Speaker 1: I started putting the bike together. I put it all together,

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Speaker 1: put it back together, and I couldn't get it started.

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Speaker 1: It wouldn't start. And then so I'm looking through, well,

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Speaker 1: it could be this, it could be that, and uh

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Speaker 1: so I I just started take went down to the

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Speaker 1: b s A shop. I said, give me a give

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Speaker 1: me this or that and different parts, and started replacing

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Speaker 1: parts in the bike. And every time I would replace

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Speaker 1: a part, I try to start it and try to

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Speaker 1: start it. And then finally it started and it wasn't

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Speaker 1: you know, it was running really rough, but I dialed

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Speaker 1: it in and had a little uh you know, British

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Speaker 1: carburetor on it. I forget what they call those carburetors,

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Speaker 1: but anyway, and just started, you know, tweaking on it,

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Speaker 1: and dialed it in, got that bike running, and I

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Speaker 1: rode the bike for the next couple of years. That

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Speaker 1: was not my main motor transportation, but at times it

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Speaker 1: was because my car would break down and then I

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Speaker 1: have nothing but that that motorcycle. So um and it

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Speaker 1: was a single cylinder bike with it had was supposed

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Speaker 1: to have a compression release because they are super high compression,

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Speaker 1: and the compression release was broken. So when you started,

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Speaker 1: it would kick back, and sometimes it would kick back

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Speaker 1: and just about send you over the handlebars, you know,

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Speaker 1: it kicked back so hard. And anyway, I learned a

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Speaker 1: lot about, you know, mechanics on motorcycles. I already understood

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Speaker 1: a certain amount of mechanics. I had worked in gas

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Speaker 1: stations and stuff. But uh so I really cut my

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Speaker 1: teeth on that bike. And then years later I got in,

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Speaker 1: you know, I went out and bought a Harley. When

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Speaker 1: I finally made some money with the band, I went

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Speaker 1: about Harley Davidson. But but that old B S A

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Speaker 1: was a great, great old bike. It was fun. You

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Speaker 1: could you could it did a lot, you know. It

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Speaker 1: was a good street bike. You could take it in

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Speaker 1: the dirt. It was just a lot of fun. It

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Speaker 1: was a neat bike, and I had another one until

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Speaker 1: recently I just sold it. But anyway, that's kind of

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Speaker 1: my beginning. That's how I got into bikes. You worked

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Speaker 1: in gas stations and you rebuilt this motorcycle. Were you

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Speaker 1: also a tinker with your musical equipment a little bit? Uh?

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Speaker 1: You know, Uh, I didn't really, I I was. I

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Speaker 1: started playing guitar when I was eight years old, so

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Speaker 1: you know, I had to learn about the ins and

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Speaker 1: outs of replacing strings and tuning and and you know,

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Speaker 1: parts of the guitar. I never really built or rebuilt guitars. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, I just my guitars were all always stock

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Speaker 1: instruments pretty much. Um. If I had anything you know,

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Speaker 1: crazy I want to do, I would send it to

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Speaker 1: a you know, an expert, you know, somebody that had

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Speaker 1: a guitar shop or something, you know where they worked

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Speaker 1: on instruments. But yeah, you know, in terms of you know,

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Speaker 1: really tinkering, I don't think I ever really. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've taken guitar guitars completely apart and put them back

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Speaker 1: together again, uh you know, but they were always with

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Speaker 1: the same parts that that came out of them pretty much.

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Speaker 1: So how many motor cycles you own now, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Quite a few I've got, I've got, you know, a

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Speaker 1: garage I keep mad. I don't know, probably thirty or forty,

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Speaker 1: about forty forty, probably closer to forty. Okay. I don't

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Speaker 1: know anybody who's ever owned a motorcycle who hasn't dumped frequently,

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Speaker 1: not even their fault. Fault is a driver in a car, whatever,

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Speaker 1: what has been your experience. There's only two types of bikers,

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Speaker 1: the ones that have been down and the ones that

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Speaker 1: are going down. You know, it's uh, it's something that

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Speaker 1: kind of comes with the territory and and really you

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Speaker 1: have to I don't think everybody has to take a

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Speaker 1: spill on a bike, but often, you know, you you

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Speaker 1: push the envelope and that's where the problem is starting.

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Speaker 1: It's usually often you're not going that fast. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: most people dump a bike in the gravel and they

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Speaker 1: may be only going a couple of miles an hour,

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Speaker 1: but bikes get really squirrely in the gravel, and if

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Speaker 1: you hit the brake, especially the front break, you're probably

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Speaker 1: gonna go down on the bike on the street. That's

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Speaker 1: often when you you're you know, maybe you're you're out

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Speaker 1: on a wet road, or you're you're somewhere where somebody

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Speaker 1: has been parked or dropped some oil and you happen

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Speaker 1: to go through that that spot. Um Probably most often

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Speaker 1: it's when people are going too fast on a bike

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Speaker 1: and they you know, coming into a corner. That's often

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Speaker 1: a place where people lose it on motorcycles. I've really

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Speaker 1: learned a lot about safety equipment, wearing the right clothes.

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Speaker 1: I didn't used to wear a helmet in the old day.

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Speaker 1: After friends of mine had some horrible accidents and were

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Speaker 1: wearing helmets, I decided, I'm going to go, you know

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Speaker 1: with with the helmet, and I'm glad. I had one

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Speaker 1: spill and I was wearing a helmet, and I don't

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Speaker 1: think I actually hit my head, but I was really

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Speaker 1: happy I was wearing a helmet and and and wearing

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Speaker 1: all the equipment that I needed. I had the leather

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Speaker 1: pants on, and I know, skidded on the road, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I actually my toe in my boot, which

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Speaker 1: is a steel toe boot, wore all the way through

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Speaker 1: the leather to the steel toe and scraped. So you know,

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00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,359
Speaker 1: we're having the right equipment is really important on a bike.

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Speaker 1: I have gloves on as well, you know, so I

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Speaker 1: didn't sustain any injuries. I kind of squashed squashed my

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Speaker 1: toe in my boot and my toe hurt for a while.

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Speaker 1: And but the bike was fairly well scraped up and

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00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,280
Speaker 1: you know bent bent components and so on. So you know,

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Speaker 1: there's safety is an issue, and the proper clothing can

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00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,879
Speaker 1: really make a big difference. And how you you know

303
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,119
Speaker 1: what happens to you in that instance. So what motivated

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Speaker 1: you to play the guitar at AG Well, let's see,

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00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,399
Speaker 1: I had taken piano lessons when I was a little kid, uh,

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Speaker 1: and I you know, I just loved music, Um, I had.

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Speaker 1: I've listened to music all my life, you know, since

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00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 1: I was a small child, and so I've always been

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00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:45,720
Speaker 1: inspired by by music in general, all kinds of music, uh,

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Speaker 1: specifically rock music in the fifties. You know, I probably

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00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,680
Speaker 1: had a similar kind of experience that that Tom had,

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Speaker 1: and that I had a you know, an older friend.

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Speaker 1: I think it was his brother that probably turned him

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Speaker 1: onto some of the the coolest music. But I we

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00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,120
Speaker 1: I had a friend of the family that had come

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Speaker 1: to stay at our house he was in the middle.

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00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,120
Speaker 1: He was just going into the army and he came

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00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:14,760
Speaker 1: stayed to our house a little bit, and then he

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00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,919
Speaker 1: left his entire record collection of forty five and it

320
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 1: was just all the best songs from the area, you know,

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Speaker 1: the Everly Brothers, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Bobby Darren, the Coasters,

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00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:41,359
Speaker 1: Connie Francis, too too many to even remember. But so um,

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00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 1: I list sat there and listen to those records for

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Speaker 1: every day, for hours. I would just sit and listen,

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Speaker 1: you know, until I was exhausted, you know, from listening,

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00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:57,160
Speaker 1: and uh, across the street one you know, I met

327
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 1: the kid across the street and I around the same time.

328
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,679
Speaker 1: Everything kind of clicked at once I went over to

329
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,159
Speaker 1: his house. I had met him, you know, playing outdoors.

330
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:13,440
Speaker 1: We just moved into the neighborhood and went over to

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00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,480
Speaker 1: his house and walked. He took me into his bedroom

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00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,639
Speaker 1: and sitting there in the corner was a guitar and

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00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,199
Speaker 1: it was, you know, an arch top harmony guitar, but

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00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 1: kind of a upper upper end harmony. It was a

335
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:34,680
Speaker 1: nice guitar for the times. And I just I froze,

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00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 1: you know when I saw the guitar, because I had

337
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 1: never I've never seen a guitar in up in person,

338
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 1: you know. I've seen him on television and of course

339
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,199
Speaker 1: new people played guitars here him on records, but I

340
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,679
Speaker 1: had never seen one. And there it was in the corner.

341
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,399
Speaker 1: I'm just like, it was magical, you know this, wow,

342
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 1: there it is. We had a piano and that that

343
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,840
Speaker 1: was pretty magical too, But guitar, there's something about it.

344
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: They're just called to me. And so I said, you know,

345
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 1: can I touch it? Yeah, go ahead to pick it up,

346
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 1: you know, strum it if you want to. So I

347
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 1: took it overset on his bed and he put the

348
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,439
Speaker 1: guitar in my hands and and I just, you know,

349
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 1: I strummed it. And he goes, you want me to

350
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 1: teach you a chord? And I go yeah. So he

351
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 1: taught me a g chord and that was the beginning.

352
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,199
Speaker 1: And I was there every day at his house after that.

353
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Speaker 1: Every Hey, Ronnie, can I can I come in look

354
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 1: at your guitar player? Guitar? Sure, come on in. And

355
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 1: he had his dad had a guitar to his mom.

356
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,360
Speaker 1: His mom and dad were sort of country folk musicians

357
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 1: and they had a band or had had a band

358
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,400
Speaker 1: at one point or another, and so his dad had

359
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: a guitar too, So we sat there together and he

360
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: would he taught me chords, and then pretty soon we

361
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 1: were playing so looks together. He taught me songs and

362
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 1: that was it. I was off from there on. I

363
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 1: was you know, live, eat, breathe, guitar songs music. You know,

364
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: that was okay. So this was in the state of Washington.

365
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 1: It was in California nineteen fifty eight probably, but you

366
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 1: were born in the state of Washington. Is I was

367
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: born in the state of Washington. And how did you

368
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: end up moving to California. My father was an educator.

369
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 1: He was a teacher, and my mother was also and

370
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,880
Speaker 1: my father had I went to school to my dad

371
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: in Washington for a little bit. He was a principal

372
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 1: at a school I attended when I was just a kindergartener,

373
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 1: and that's how I came to play the piano a

374
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: little bit. My dad would take me to some uh

375
00:23:55,119 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: one of the students parents and lived nearby, and this

376
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 1: kid's grandmother was there, and somehow my dad became acquainted

377
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: with her and asked her if she would keep an

378
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: eye on me. After I got out of class. I

379
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 1: would go half a day, and then my dad was

380
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 1: there all day until about three or four in the afternoon.

381
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 1: And so about noon I would go to this lady's

382
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:27,239
Speaker 1: house and really like the first couple of days we

383
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: were there, I saw her piano sitting in the living

384
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: room and I went over and I tinkled on. I

385
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: can remember really memorable going over and you know, hitting

386
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 1: the keys. And she said, oh, do you play the piano?

387
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: And I go, Now, we my sister plays. She was, oh,

388
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 1: you have a piano at home. I go, yeah, she said,

389
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: what would you like to learn? I go sure, She said, well,

390
00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:00,160
Speaker 1: I I teach piano among other things, and you I'd

391
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 1: be glad to you know, your hair every day, you know,

392
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 1: would you like to learn to play? And I go,

393
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 1: she goes, I love. I love to teach piano. So

394
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: she started teaching the piano, and I was there every

395
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 1: day for the next I don't know how it was,

396
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 1: probably however long you go for a year, eight months

397
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 1: or something, but five five days a week I was

398
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:28,360
Speaker 1: there at her house, playing the piano and loving it,

399
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: you know. And then she was more than she was

400
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 1: a teacher, but she was a mentor as well, so

401
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: she you know, we would spend a half hour on

402
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: the piano and then it was a cool routine. Every

403
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 1: day I looked forward to it. We would play a

404
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: little piano and then she would say, okay, time for

405
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: cookies and milk. And so then we'd sit and she

406
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 1: turned on the radio and every day, you know, the

407
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 1: Liberaci at a radio show, and she loved that, being

408
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 1: a anno person, music person. And we'd listened to Libracci

409
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 1: live on the radio and you know, he would play

410
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: and he was of course, he was fabulous musician and

411
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 1: funny too, you know, so it was entertaining for all,

412
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: for both of us. But you know that it was

413
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 1: you know, great applic you know, really uh direct application,

414
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: you know. So I would learn and then I would

415
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: listen to what you know, what could happen if you

416
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: continued in music, you could be playing like and she

417
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: would she told me, you know, if you if you

418
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 1: keep going, you know you could you could do this too,

419
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: if you if it's in your you know, if it's

420
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: something that calls you, you know you could you could

421
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: be a great piano player. So I never I loved it.

422
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 1: But then when we ended up in California, my dad

423
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: got an offer for a job in California. So I

424
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: was so happy because I was in Aberdeen, Washington, which

425
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 1: is like, you know, arguably the rainiest part of the state.

426
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: You know, it's the Pacific rainforest near the coast, and

427
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: pretty much my memories are rain every day. You know,

428
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 1: it rained every day in my rain really hard some days.

429
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 1: But even if it wasn't raining hard, it was sprinkling

430
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: or something. It was just always wet, always misty. And so,

431
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 1: you know, come in California was like I had heard

432
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: of California. It was like, you know, that's where the

433
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 1: cowboys go, you know, that's where they take their cattle.

434
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: And so we ended up in Palaulto, kind of south

435
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: of San Francisco there, and we spent a year there

436
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 1: and then ended up in San Jose. And when I

437
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: was about six, I guess six seven, we ended up

438
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: moving to San Jose and I grew up there. That's

439
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: where I was through high school and college, through San Jose,

440
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: all through you know, getting together with with the band

441
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: the Doobie Brothers. I was, you know, I'm a San

442
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: Jose guy. Okay, So you're in school, good student, popular,

443
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: bad student, unpopular. I was a good student. I don't

444
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 1: know what popular is. I wasn't as popular as I

445
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: as I wished I was, you know. Um, but I

446
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 1: did well in school, and I love sports. I participated

447
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: in everything, you know, student council. I was always involved,

448
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: you know, and that that aspect of school and you

449
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: finished college. I did not finish college. I went until

450
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: I got a high lottery number in the draft. You know,

451
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: I kind of thought I would go back. I I

452
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: the whole time, I should say, I was playing music,

453
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: like continuously really, from the time I was eight years old,

454
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: playing the guitar. I just played, you know, every day,

455
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: all the time until I could really perform, you know,

456
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: until I could get up in front of an audience

457
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: and and entertain. Um. I think my my parents sort

458
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: of encouraged me in that aspect for a while until

459
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: I until I reached high school, and you know, everything

460
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: kind of changed culturally too, you know, long hair and

461
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,959
Speaker 1: psychedelics and stuff, and then it became a different you know,

462
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: they were freaked out by that, of course, Um, but

463
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: pretty much, you know, continually continually played music and and

464
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: that was always part of it. And so so I

465
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: love college, love learning. And when I went I ended

466
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: up at San Jose State UM, and you know, had

467
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: all intentions of getting a degree, and as time went

468
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: on UM music became more of a focal point for me.

469
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, if I, if I don't pursue this,

470
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: I could see people around me who were, you know,

471
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: having success in music, and I didn't think we're that great.

472
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: And then so I thought, you know, I you know,

473
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: I may, I may never get rich doing this, but

474
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: at least I can uh maybe make a living around town,

475
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: you know, I can get some gigs at clubs, and

476
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: I did. I was able to work, you know, so

477
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: to me, you know, I've always had jobs, you know,

478
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: hourly jobs, but none was as satisfying as as playing

479
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: you sick, and you know, you make you make more

480
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: money per hour, you know, playing music than then you're

481
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: going to make doing almost any well, not almost anything else,

482
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: but certainly minimum wage jobs at least. Okay, I'm a

483
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: little younger than you, and you know, the early sixties

484
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: was the folk boom. Everybody was playing a nylon string guitar.

485
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: The Beatles hit boom, everybody gets an electric guitar, everybody's

486
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: forming bands. Ay were you playing out before the Beatles? B.

487
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: What was it like when the Beatles hit for you?

488
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: I was already playing electric guitar. I kind of I

489
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: went from acoustic guitar. I was kind of a roots guy.

490
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: I I played, you know, a little bit of country

491
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: music when I was very young, and then when the

492
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: folk boom came about in the early sixties, I love

493
00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: that music. I mean I you know, they were TV

494
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: shows that you know, every week that portrayed music, the Limelighters,

495
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: and you know, there were some successful groups in the

496
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: Kingston Trio. Um, this is earlier, kind of pre there.

497
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: I kind of there was a delineation from more ah,

498
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: what would be the word real early American folk songs?

499
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: Would he got three um pete seeger Odetta. I'm trying

500
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: to think of people that were, you know, within that context,

501
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: even people like Johnny cash Um. I can't remember some

502
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: of some of the names, but people that sang more

503
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: traditionalist word it's more traditional music. It's it's early American music,

504
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: older songs, things that were written at the turn of

505
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: the century and then came a more modern era with

506
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: I would think probably the most obvious proponent or you know,

507
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: someone to site would be a band like Peter Paul

508
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: and Mary who suddenly were writing more contemporary songs and

509
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: and UM singing songs by contemporary writers, Bob Dylan being

510
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: the obvious writer, and so that UM really appealed to me.

511
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: Those new songs. I had been singing, you know, early

512
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: American folk songs, burl ives kind of stuff. I had

513
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: teachers that that loved that early music, and I loved

514
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: it too, you know. And and then suddenly there was

515
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: this new uh songwriting going on and kind of obscure

516
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,240
Speaker 1: images that were not as obvious and what those songs

517
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: are even about. Sometimes probably for my young mind, I

518
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: didn't even know what some of those songs were about,

519
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: but I knew that they connected with something, you know,

520
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: in in my in my psyche and and my soul.

521
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: And so that's where I started looking at another aspect

522
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:35,359
Speaker 1: of of music, songwriting particularly. And then there were at

523
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: that same time here shortly after that, there was in

524
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 1: the British music scene with you know, the Stones, the Animals,

525
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: um them uh and I love that, and I thought

526
00:34:54,760 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: that was a There were other artists that I had

527
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: been was familiar with that were more rock oriented artists

528
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: that were blues based, you know, um bo Diddley Chuck Berry.

529
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: But in my mind those were kind of folk artists

530
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: as well. The songs that they wrote and sang, we're

531
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:27,479
Speaker 1: reflective of our of our daily lives, you know, uh,

532
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: certainly of their daily lives. Probably not my daily life.

533
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: I was, you know, white kid in the suburbs. They

534
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: were black kids from you know, the south and the city,

535
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: but certainly similar music, probably to some of the more

536
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: modern folk music that was coming out. So it all

537
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: it all for me, It's all jelled into a movement

538
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: in music that really spoke to me. And you know,

539
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 1: I began to two. I discovered the blues, you know,

540
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: uh that that was really meaningful to me at that

541
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: moment in time. I had a friend that was a

542
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: singer at a folk club and I I went I

543
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: would see him play. It was an older guy and

544
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: he was singing the blues, and I thought, that is

545
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: there's there's some music that I aspired to, and so

546
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 1: I started taking lessons from him. He turned me onto

547
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: you know, different blues artists and and that, and that

548
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:38,919
Speaker 1: became another focal part in my life. And then from

549
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: there I started looking around and realizing that there was

550
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: some you know, the British blues scene was so wonderful

551
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: because it it turned turned a lot of people onto

552
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: you know, really great people that we had probably not

553
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: I I certainly had not been aware of bb King

554
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: and Albert King and you know, Bobby Blue Bland and

555
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 1: so when I've heard their music, but only on the fringe,

556
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: you know. And then suddenly that music came alive for me.

557
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: And so I started listening to the blues and uh

558
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: and and learning the blues and you know Paul Butterfield,

559
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:35,240
Speaker 1: Mike Bloomfield again that I bought that that first Butterfield album,

560
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: and I listened to that album over and over and

561
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: over again. I was like, I wouldn't you know, it

562
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: was just such a wonderful album. And then being there

563
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: in the Bay Area when the Psycho, you know, when

564
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 1: the Bill Grahams and and all the San Francisco bands

565
00:37:55,440 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 1: began again that was the edge of folk and electric. Um.

566
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: It was just such a you know, I was so

567
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: inspired by that, that whole movement, and I was there.

568
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: I was part of it in a sense that not

569
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:16,240
Speaker 1: that I was, you know, in some really big band

570
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 1: at that time. I played with a few bands around

571
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 1: the area and play with the Chocolate Watch Band for

572
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: a little while, which was kind of a uh you know,

573
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: a regional band there that had some success. But primarily

574
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: I was just out playing by myself with my guitar,

575
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: and you know, I would sit in with people and stuff.

576
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 1: But I recognized that if I was going to work, UM,

577
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: I had better have it together myself by myself before

578
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: anything else. Because band sort of came and went and

579
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: the one you know, you join a band and then

580
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: it would fall apart, and you join a band and

581
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: it would fall apart. But I could always depend on

582
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: the fact that if I had some songs and I

583
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: could leaved, I could I could keep a band together,

584
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: you know. So I did. I was able to make

585
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:11,240
Speaker 1: a living and and do something I loved at that time.

586
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 1: You know, so at that time, when did you stop

587
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: doing day gigs and just play music. In the mid sixties,

588
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 1: I was well, let's see, I probably was in high

589
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: school then, um, and I was always working. I always

590
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: had a job part time. Uh, And so I would

591
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: work during the day and then I would play at night.

592
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: I got gigs and clubs even as a kid. Uh.

593
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 1: Those are the days of coffee houses, so you could,

594
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: you know, there was no nothing about age. You could

595
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 1: be as and in fact, being young sort of work

596
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: to my advantage. I was a the youngest kid on

597
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: the stage at most of these coffee houses. So it

598
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: enabled me to have a kind of a unique pres

599
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: since that, oh, here comes the kid, he's gonna play.

600
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: Are you working tonight? Yeah, I'm working, cool man, you know.

601
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: And and so I would get these gigs as a kid,

602
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: and I was able to work. It was just, you know,

603
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 1: really great. And my parents were cool with it as

604
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: long as it was a weekend. They don't like me

605
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: working during the week because I had to go to school.

606
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 1: But you know, I didn't make a ton of money,

607
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 1: but uh, you know, I would work. I worked at

608
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: a gas station. I made a buck a dollar an hour,

609
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: and I worked ten hours, ten twelve hour shift when

610
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: I was sixteen, make twelve dollars. And then you had

611
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:47,359
Speaker 1: to pay you know, taxes and so security and all

612
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 1: that stuff. So maybe if I made nine bucks after

613
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 1: working ten hours, and even by the standards of the time,

614
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: that wasn't much money. And although you know, it was

615
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: money that I made and it was mine, it was

616
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: in my pocket. I could do what I wanted with it.

617
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: But if I played a gig, I could make ten

618
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 1: bucks in three hours. Uh, you know, at a club

619
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: and doing something I really love. So that was that

620
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: was what I wanted to do. Okay, one theme in

621
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: the book that is really camered and I mean that

622
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: in a good way, over and over And this is

623
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: the first time I've really seen it so consistently. Is

624
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: this love for Moby Grat tell me all about that.

625
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: I had a friend who I played with in a

626
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: band in high school and uh, it must have been

627
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 1: I forget when that album came out, sixty sixty seven maybe.

628
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,320
Speaker 1: And now one day he calls, maybe, goes, Pat, I

629
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: got something you gotta listen. You gotta here, and I

630
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 1: said yeah. He goes, I'm coming over. So he comes

631
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 1: over and he goes, you gotta hear this. This is

632
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: He goes. You know, he had turned me on to

633
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: a big brother in the holding company. He told me,

634
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 1: you gotta go up to this club in the Santa

635
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 1: Curus Mountain, the Barn, and here this band, big brother

636
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: in the holding company. And this was sixty six, he said.

637
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 1: He goes, they've been playing up in San Francisco. He says,

638
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 1: but they're act there down here and they're playing the

639
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 1: club in Scott's Valley, which was but twenty minutes from

640
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,240
Speaker 1: my house, you know where I lived. So I drove

641
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: over and I sat there and here comes big brother

642
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:43,359
Speaker 1: in the holding company of the Janis Joplin, and I

643
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: was cold. My friend, the same guy who brought me

644
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: the Moby Grape album, I sat there and listened to

645
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: the band. Never heard him before, was before they recorded,

646
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 1: and it was like I never heard any any woman

647
00:42:55,000 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: singing like this in my life. This is again life

648
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,760
Speaker 1: changing moment to hear that live. I think I paid

649
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 1: a dollar and a half or something to come in

650
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: and see him. It was the barn in Scott's Valley

651
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 1: was an old barn. I saw Country Joe there. There

652
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: are all these bands from San Francisco that used to

653
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: come and play. So anyway, the same guy who turned

654
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 1: me on to going to see Janis Joplin says, you

655
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 1: got to hear this record, and so we put it

656
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:33,479
Speaker 1: on and it was the first Moby Grape album. He goes,

657
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: what do you think? He goes, He goes, I think

658
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: it's the best San Francisco band of all of them.

659
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: He goes, what do you think I go, I think

660
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: you're right. I think I go. There isn't a guitar

661
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: player in the whole state, in the whole you know,

662
00:43:55,880 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 1: of all the guitar players I had heard, uh, there

663
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: probably wasn't a better rock and roll guitar player than

664
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 1: Jerry Miller. And it stands up today. He listened to

665
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:12,439
Speaker 1: the playing. You know, I love you know, I love

666
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:17,280
Speaker 1: Jerry Garcia, I loved your mcauchinan, I love Barry Melton.

667
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: Back then, I mean I was over the head over

668
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:26,959
Speaker 1: heels for the San Francisco music, Gary Duncan. I loved

669
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,800
Speaker 1: all those guys. I mean, they were great players, I thought,

670
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I still love them to this day.

671
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: But Jerry Miller, he was just amazing, A great sort

672
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: of bebop player, you know, like I'm trying to think

673
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 1: of the bop guitar players, you know, it doesn't matter,

674
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: but just a great all around player, great blues player,

675
00:44:55,400 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: a great jazz player, a great country player. Uh. He

676
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 1: blew my mind. And then the songs were and again,

677
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: you know, this is something that probably our band is

678
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: all the guys in our band I think take to heart,

679
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:18,240
Speaker 1: and I certainly do. It's about the songs. That's what people,

680
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: at least for for a band like ours, it's and

681
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,720
Speaker 1: in my own mind it's always been about the songs.

682
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: When I hear a great song, that's what stays with me,

683
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:37,720
Speaker 1: that's what I you know, uh, connects me to an artist.

684
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: And the songs that Moby Grape had were just great

685
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: songs and all these different singers and players writers. It

686
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: was a phenomenally talented bunch of guys. Uh misguided in

687
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: terms of, you know, the business and their management and

688
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 1: everything else that went that goes with that aspect of

689
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: being an artist unfortunately, but musically, I to this day,

690
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: I think they're one of the best of the San

691
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: Francisco bands ever. And a lot of people don't aren't

692
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: that familiar with them because they never really made a

693
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: big splash nationally. They were limited by their own foibles,

694
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: if you will, you know, the things that you know,

695
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 1: the obstacles that they put in their own pathway. But

696
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: still a great band. I think people would do the

697
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 1: do yourself a favor, go back to go listen to

698
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: eight oh five by themby Grape by Skip Spence was

699
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:54,720
Speaker 1: you know a crazy person, you know, you know, really

700
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: a wild guy. But Oh Maha is a song that

701
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: he wrote that I still think a great rock song.

702
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: It just had it was magical for the times and

703
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 1: pretty modern for that era, you know, with feedback and

704
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 1: just just an odd rhythmic track. Really interesting production. David

705
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,760
Speaker 1: Rubinson was it was a great producer. So anyway, great

706
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: great band, great album. Okay, so you're playing solo, you

707
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: don't have to worry about the army. How do you

708
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 1: get involved in bands? And then how do you ultimately

709
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,959
Speaker 1: meet Tom? I had regular gigs around San Jose Los

710
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:49,800
Speaker 1: Gatos on my own as a as a solo guitar player.

711
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:55,760
Speaker 1: IM I have written songs and I was doing covers

712
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 1: at the time, and then I at one point I

713
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 1: played this little club in half Moon Bay and it

714
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 1: was called the shelter In and it was owned by

715
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 1: a guy that I was acquainted with. He had a

716
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: club in San Jose, also called the shelter In, in

717
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:23,800
Speaker 1: downtown San Jose, and at that time, in that particular

718
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:30,280
Speaker 1: club downtown San Jose, your mcachenen was playing um Dave Nelson,

719
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 1: who ended up playing the new Writers of the Purple Stage,

720
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 1: had a regular gig there with a band his the

721
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: Pine Valley Boys. I think it was a blue grass band.

722
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: I believe Skip Spence played there a time or two.

723
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: Ah gosh, some some other people that had that had

724
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 1: done well in the music business around the BA area

725
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 1: ended up playing there from time to time. Anyway, Mike

726
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: relocated to Half Bay. He sold the place to someone else,

727
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: and then he opened another shelter, and I think the

728
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 1: shelter in San Jose finally closed. He opened another one

729
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: in half Moon Bay. So I went up there. I

730
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: had heard about it and auditioned, and I got the

731
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: gig and I started playing there. Well, it turns out

732
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,959
Speaker 1: Mike was a pretty good violin player, and he asked

733
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: to sit in with me. Um, this is the owner,

734
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: And of course you don't refuse the owner sitting in

735
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: with you, so he said. And sure enough, he was

736
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:36,320
Speaker 1: a really good violin players. So we started digging together

737
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 1: and I I had I got the gigs, and he

738
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:46,720
Speaker 1: would join me. Um, and then he finally moved down

739
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 1: to Los Gatos, and then we ended up playing all

740
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: around San Jose and he one day he goes, you know,

741
00:49:55,920 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 1: I know this guy is a great bass player. Um,

742
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: you think you'd want to have a bass player play

743
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: was I go, of course, and that would be wonderful.

744
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,359
Speaker 1: So it goes. Let me call him, you know, and

745
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 1: see if he's interest in coming and sitting. We were

746
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 1: getting a little bit better, more high profile gigs paying

747
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: a little bit better. And then I had regular gigs.

748
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: I was doing weekly, So I wasn't making a ton

749
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 1: of money, but it was regular money coming in for

750
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 1: for both of us. And so we called he calls

751
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:32,760
Speaker 1: the bass player and he and this was Tyronne Porter,

752
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 1: who ended up being the bass player for the for

753
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 1: the Doobies UH a couple of years later. So Tyrone

754
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: uh flew up. Those are the days you could get

755
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 1: a flight uh for dirt. You know, it's about fourteen

756
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,879
Speaker 1: dollars to fly from l A to to San Jose.

757
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 1: So we picked him up and we rehearse and started gigging,

758
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 1: the three of us, and so he would come up

759
00:50:56,320 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 1: every weekend, and UH started gigging around San Jose and

760
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 1: and last adis Santa Cruz and we were doing pretty well.

761
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 1: And so we ended up digging at the Chateau Liberty

762
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 1: and that was my first experience at that club. The

763
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: three of us gig in there. I think I had

764
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 1: gig there once by myself, um and then the three

765
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: of us. So we started digging regularly at the chateau,

766
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 1: and Mike h Mike and I kind of broke up.

767
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 1: The band broke up, the three of us. Tyronne had

768
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 1: something else going on, and I forget something happened with nothing.

769
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,839
Speaker 1: Mike had other things to do. He ended up, I think,

770
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 1: leaving town, and uh, so I was back on my own.

771
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 1: So I started playing around town with this guy, Peter Grant,

772
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: and Peter was he was a local I had known

773
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 1: for years. He was the banjo player, guitar player, he

774
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 1: had played. He was friends with some of the guys

775
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 1: in Grateful Dead. He had played on one of the

776
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: Dead albums. He had taught himself to play pedal steel

777
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 1: and ended up on I think oxom oxiwa playing steel

778
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:26,839
Speaker 1: and anyway a really decent banjo player. So I had

779
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 1: played with three different banjo players around town and doing

780
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,720
Speaker 1: blue grass because I was kind of one of my things.

781
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: I had made an effort to study a little bit

782
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 1: about blue grass, and I had friends that played, and

783
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: so I would just sit in and learn the you know,

784
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 1: how to learn the songs. You know the lot of

785
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 1: instrumentals and stuff, and I learned that task myself with

786
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 1: learning and listening to blue grass. So um, playing with Peter,

787
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:00,919
Speaker 1: and one day we got this. I get this call.

788
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:04,239
Speaker 1: It's Mike Mindel, my ex middle player. He goes, I'm

789
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:08,280
Speaker 1: opening a club in h Campbell. It's the old Campbell

790
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: Theater was the downtown theater in Campbell, California, which is

791
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 1: kind of a suburb of San Jose. And I'm going

792
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: to call it the gas Lighter Theater. And I'd love

793
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 1: I love to have you come and play. What are

794
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 1: you doing now? And I said, well, I'm Paile playing

795
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:27,919
Speaker 1: with this guy, Peter Grant. He goes, well, I'm trying

796
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:32,240
Speaker 1: to book hot Tuna, and uh maybe you you guys

797
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 1: could come and open for hot Tuna. I go, yeah,

798
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: of course that would be wonderful. So so we get

799
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 1: to the I told Peter Bouty goes, I go, how

800
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 1: much are you paying? He goes, I'm paying you know whatever.

801
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 1: It was pretty good. I think he was paying me

802
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: like fifty bucks, which was a lot in those days.

803
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: So um, we get there and uh, no, hot Tuna.

804
00:53:55,200 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 1: Hot Tuna. They had a a commit that they had

805
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 1: to honor, and he couldn't They couldn't show up. So

806
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 1: he hired this other band, Pachuco. I go, well, I

807
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:11,879
Speaker 1: know Pachuco. It's uh, Skip Spence and this guy, Bill

808
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,760
Speaker 1: Andres was a guitar player in the band at the time.

809
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: So um, I go, well, that's that's great. You know,

810
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 1: I love both those guys, and that will be great anyway.

811
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:30,799
Speaker 1: So um, so I had known Skip previously, and that's

812
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 1: another story in itself. But so we get there and

813
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 1: so Peter and I play, you know there, Skip's not

814
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:44,279
Speaker 1: there yet. Peter and I set up and and we

815
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 1: do our set. We play an hour or so and

816
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: then I see Skip comes in, and I see these

817
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 1: other guys, and they go, well, where's Bill Andres. He's

818
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 1: not with them. So I go I talked to Skip.

819
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 1: I go as the worst. Bill He goes, I he's

820
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 1: in jail. So I got these guys. This is you know,

821
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: I mean, you didn't gotta meet these guys. Guys are great.

822
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 1: I go, okay. Skip was really kind of high strung

823
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 1: at that point, and uh, he goes, this is Tom.

824
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 1: This is John. So I to He goes, hey, how

825
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: you doing? You know? He goes, and we caught you.

826
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 1: We listened to your set coming in this man, you guys,

827
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:28,840
Speaker 1: you sounded great, you and Peter and you really you

828
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,359
Speaker 1: really nailed it. It was really great, you know. And

829
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 1: I go, well, I'm anxious, you know, hear you guys,

830
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 1: And he goes, yeah, well it's kind of loose. You know.

831
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:40,280
Speaker 1: We really haven't rehearsed much. We just you know, Skip

832
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 1: told us he, you know, that his regular band members

833
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 1: weren't going to show up, and so he called us

834
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 1: and asked us if we play with him. So he go,

835
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 1: I go, well, whatever. You know, I was used to

836
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 1: see in bands like that that are kind of thrown together.

837
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 1: And but I was anxious to see because I I

838
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 1: hadn't seen Skip for years, and I was anxious to

839
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 1: see him. And he had this guitar that he had built,

840
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:10,280
Speaker 1: and it was a stratocaster. Somewhere he'd gotten these longhorn

841
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 1: cattle uh horns and had him grafted onto the guitar.

842
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 1: It looked really demonic, you know, and it was painted

843
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:25,479
Speaker 1: with you know, pin striping like they did on hot

844
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:30,280
Speaker 1: rods and stuff. And he's wearing this long, this trench coat,

845
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:32,879
Speaker 1: and he's wearing a hat like I'm wearing, right, now

846
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 1: he had a beret on backwards. He looked great, you know,

847
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: he looked every bit the rock star that he had

848
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:46,279
Speaker 1: been and was. And uh so they get up there

849
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 1: and I can't even hear skips guitar. It's like, I

850
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 1: don't even I don't think it was plugged in. And

851
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:58,799
Speaker 1: he's like doing all this you know stuff, and Tom

852
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 1: is up at the microphone own singing, and John and

853
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:06,359
Speaker 1: they had a bass player with him, and they are

854
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:11,799
Speaker 1: killing it. I mean, Tommy, you could tell that they

855
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: were whatever Skip was. These guys were rehearsed, and they

856
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 1: started playing kind of like like heavy metal, like cream.

857
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 1: You know, it was before there was even a term

858
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 1: heavy metal. It was you know, hard rock trio just

859
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 1: killing it. I mean I was like, oh my god,

860
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: these guys are really good. You know. It was not

861
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 1: my kind of music. I was like Peter and I

862
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 1: just got done doing traditional kind of a bunch of

863
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 1: traditional music and bluegrass and stuff, some blues a little bit.

864
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 1: And these guys are killing it. And they're playing the

865
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: blues too. But it's like loud, you know to me,

866
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 1: and as loud as they could get as he could

867
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:59,320
Speaker 1: get his amplifier to go and they are killing it,

868
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 1: and I'm just like going, man, where these guys come from?

869
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 1: You know. And so afterwards I go back, I go, good,

870
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: you guys, you guys are great. You guys are really good.

871
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: And what are you doing? You know? He goes, well,

872
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 1: you know, I'm John. Was kind of a character, and

873
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 1: he was like really animated. He goes, yeah, I just

874
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 1: got here from uh, from Virginia, False Church, and I

875
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 1: just got into town. Yeah, I met I met up

876
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 1: with Skippy. Was kind of job. He's going, yeah, I

877
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 1: just made up a skip and we're putting a band together.

878
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 1: It's gonna be like really big, really good. And uh,

879
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 1: we're looking for some other guys. And we saw you playing.

880
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 1: We thought yeah, and then you know, this guy is

881
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 1: pretty good. You know, maybe you'd like to come in

882
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 1: and sit with us. You should come on, come by

883
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:45,919
Speaker 1: the house. Man. We were we jam, we work out,

884
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 1: we we play all the time. You know, just this

885
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:53,439
Speaker 1: rapid speech, and I'm going I'm going, oh, I don't

886
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: know about this, but but I liked him, you know,

887
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 1: I mean it was to me. They were really great

888
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 1: characters and really good musicians. And so I said, well,

889
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 1: you know, I said, I I said I will come by,

890
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 1: you know, I will come by sometime. He goes, well,

891
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 1: maybe you'd like to. You know, we're trying to put

892
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 1: this band together. We could use another guitar player, and

893
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 1: you look like you'd fit right in with what we're

894
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 1: trying to do, you know, with Tom's rhythm and you

895
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:23,440
Speaker 1: and your picking, man, we could we could have this

896
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 1: whole thing and be like Moby great. You know. We

897
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 1: get skipping and I go, well, I go, I have

898
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: a band that I'm playing with, you know, um and uh,

899
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:37,360
Speaker 1: I'm playing with Peter now. And I and I had

900
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 1: been playing on and off with Mike still the guy

901
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 1: that had the gas lighter, and Tyranne a little bit. Still.

902
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 1: We didn't play all the time as much, but we

903
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 1: still did play around. I said, oh, I have these

904
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:52,120
Speaker 1: other things I'm doing. But I said, I will come

905
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 1: by and we'll connect and you know, see where it goes.

906
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 1: So so I never did. I never went by because

907
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, I don't know, it's not I'm

908
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 1: not sure if it's my thing. So one day i'm

909
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 1: I'm at my house and knock, knock, knock. I lived

910
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 1: about about five blocks from from where those guys were living.

911
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 1: And I get to hear this knock and it's John Hartman.

912
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 1: And John he was in those days. He weighed about

913
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 1: three d and fifty pounds. He he was wearing clothes

914
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 1: that it looked like he'd slept in him, you know,

915
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 1: lived in him. They were just, you know, like he

916
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 1: looked like a hell's angel, you know. And I was like,

917
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:41,600
Speaker 1: I loved what who he was and how he presented

918
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 1: himself that I was kind of like a little bit intimidated. Right,

919
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 1: So he goes, hey, man, I thought you're gonna come

920
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 1: over to the house, you know. I go, uh, you know,

921
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 1: I really I really wanted to. I just I've been busy,

922
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:54,960
Speaker 1: and you know I've been I had a job, I

923
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 1: was still working. I had a day job as well.

924
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 1: So I go, you know, but I will, like I promise.

925
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 1: He goes, well, you gotta come by, man. We have

926
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:06,480
Speaker 1: these jams. I mean it is they're out of sight, man,

927
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:08,640
Speaker 1: and you would love it. You would love it. He goes,

928
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 1: you know, you got an electric guitar. I going, well, no,

929
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:13,600
Speaker 1: I have this acoustic, but I do have a pickup.

930
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 1: I had this darm and pickup that I put on

931
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 1: my guitar. So so I go. Finally, I go, I

932
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 1: got it. I can't keep I can't, you know, not

933
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 1: go by after all that. So I got I got

934
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 1: the address, and I go by and Tommy's here. He's, hey, man,

935
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 1: come on in. You know. Yeah, I'm so glad you

936
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 1: came by. Hey, you want a jam, you know? I go,

937
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 1: I go, yeah, I just brought my acoustic. Giuse well,

938
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 1: come on out in the backyard. He says, I got

939
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 1: my acoustic too, and we'll just sit around a jam.

940
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 1: What the hell you know, I want to smoke one.

941
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 1: I go, sure, you know. So, so we go out

942
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 1: in the backyard and John brings the congo drum out there.

943
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 1: Tommy is this acoustic. I got my acoustic, and we

944
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 1: start just playing. I played some of my songs. He's

945
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 1: playing some of his stuff, and we're just you know,

946
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 1: backing each other up and having fun. And that was

947
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 1: the beginning of our relationship. I just I was wondering.

948
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 1: We spent hours just doing that, you know, we didn't

949
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 1: we never set up and played electrically or anything. Tommy says,

950
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 1: you gotta come back. Then we set up, we we jam,

951
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 1: and other musicians combine. He goes, probably some people you know.

952
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 1: He started name and name. It's like, oh, yeah, of

953
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 1: course I know that guy, this guy, and he goes, uh,

954
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 1: he goes, we're playing at San Jose State. Uh, this weekend.

955
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 1: You gotta come in and hear us. He goes, it's

956
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:36,640
Speaker 1: it's different from what you heard was Skips. Skips not

957
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 1: in the band. So I go over. They play this

958
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 1: gig and it's like the trio again, but with a

959
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:52,040
Speaker 1: horn section. It's so great. It's so real and amazing,

960
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 1: you know. It was like the horn section was really good.

961
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 1: So they're guys I knew already. They're surround town that

962
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:03,840
Speaker 1: that I knew of them. They played in different bands

963
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 1: and I had played with. The sax player used to

964
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 1: come and sit in with me at a club I

965
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 1: played at, and so well rehearsed, they killed it. I

966
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 1: came away thinking, yeah, this is really good. This is

967
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 1: really something real. These guys are really they really got something.

968
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but and I don't

969
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 1: know how I might fit into it, but I loved

970
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 1: to be a part of this, you know. So I

971
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 1: started going over to the house and we would just jam,

972
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:39,200
Speaker 1: sit and I had my acoustic guitar with a pickup

973
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: on it. Somebody would have an amplifier. I think I

974
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 1: had an amplifier. I brought my aunt and we started

975
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 1: jamming and that was the beginning. And then one day

976
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 1: they said, you know, hey, uh. I can't remember exactly

977
01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 1: how it came about that. Tom said, you know, we're

978
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 1: we we have a gig and we'd really like you

979
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 1: to play on the gig with us. And I said,

980
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 1: who who's in the band and he said, well, it's myself,

981
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 1: John and this bass player we got and the other

982
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 1: guy we had left. We got this new bass player.

983
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 1: So I go over to the house and it's a

984
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:21,320
Speaker 1: guy went to high school which was in the band,

985
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 1: Dave Shogrin. So I didn't, you know, I wasn't close

986
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 1: friends with Dave, but I knew him. I had met

987
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:32,040
Speaker 1: him here and there and remembered him from high school.

988
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 1: He's to see him around the campus. And so that

989
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,840
Speaker 1: was the band and we started. Uh. We we had

990
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: a gig, our first gig, I can't remember. It was

991
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 1: probably some club somewhere and we started playing and then

992
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 1: we just kept playing and we're still playing. Okay, so

993
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 1: you're playing because you've been doing it for a while.

994
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 1: At this point, At what point you say, man, we

995
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 1: want to get a record deal or were you always

996
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:59,720
Speaker 1: looking for a record deal? That is kind of a

997
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 1: fun story. Um, I was living in this house, the

998
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 1: house that John came and found me at in the house,

999
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:13,840
Speaker 1: and uh, one of the gals in the house played

1000
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 1: in a band and the band was had been playing

1001
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:20,600
Speaker 1: around town. And I had known her for years, but

1002
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 1: I never really knew she was a singer. And suddenly

1003
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:25,439
Speaker 1: she was in this band. And she's in a band

1004
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:28,919
Speaker 1: with other people that I knew, and they put they

1005
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:33,240
Speaker 1: started this band, and it was sort of bankrolled by

1006
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:37,280
Speaker 1: this guy who had inherited some money from his parents

1007
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:40,680
Speaker 1: somehow they had a trust fund or something, and so

1008
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:43,600
Speaker 1: they he went out and he bought them all instruments

1009
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:46,560
Speaker 1: and they started rehearsing, and they started gigging and getting gigs.

1010
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:49,800
Speaker 1: And I went to see him and I thought, my friend,

1011
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 1: that singing is the best that this in this band.

1012
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:56,480
Speaker 1: She's the best part of the band. She could sing

1013
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 1: the rest of it. I'm not sure about, you know,

1014
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure but the songs exactly how they're

1015
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 1: you know, how they're getting these gigs because I'm thinking,

1016
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 1: but you know, those were the days when it really

1017
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:12,200
Speaker 1: didn't matter if you had a guitar and you could

1018
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 1: you had something going on, you you could get gigs.

1019
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 1: But you know, I mean I liked them all. They

1020
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 1: were all the good people and and uh as individuals,

1021
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: I had seen them in different entities and I thought, well,

1022
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:29,080
Speaker 1: they're this guy is pretty good. That guy's good. But

1023
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:32,840
Speaker 1: as a band, I thought, I'm not sure about this band.

1024
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:36,680
Speaker 1: So one day she comes home, she goes, Hey, we're

1025
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 1: gonna go make we're making a demo at the studio

1026
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 1: up in San Francisco. And the guys that are that

1027
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:47,640
Speaker 1: have the studio, they're here right now in the house.

1028
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 1: And I was there in the house because I shared

1029
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 1: this house with her and a couple of other people.

1030
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:02,960
Speaker 1: And um, we paid. We paid a hundred dollars a

1031
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,680
Speaker 1: month for the house and there were three three of

1032
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: us that split the rent. It was thirty three dollars apiece,

1033
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 1: and somebody had to pay each each month. Somebody had

1034
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:17,960
Speaker 1: to pay the extra dollar, you know. So uh so

1035
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: she comes in and with these two guys and they

1036
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:26,120
Speaker 1: introduced themselves. This is Marty, this is Paul, and uh,

1037
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:31,080
Speaker 1: I go and they were kind of like yeah, well

1038
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 1: yea audio only so they have their noses in the

1039
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:37,720
Speaker 1: airh yeah, okay. They're kind of like high rollers, you know,

1040
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:46,680
Speaker 1: you know, elitist types. And she's going, we're going up

1041
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: to make this demo tomorrow, and they're going, yeah this man,

1042
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:53,640
Speaker 1: the guys are really good. And I go, oh cool,

1043
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 1: you know, I'm glad that's happening. So so, uh, they

1044
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:02,000
Speaker 1: go make the demo. I guess, and h I don't know.

1045
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think I heard the demo was like,

1046
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:10,240
Speaker 1: you know, not that great. So it's one name over

1047
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 1: at at Tommy's in John's place and they go, hey,

1048
01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:18,040
Speaker 1: we made this demo. You know you want to hear it. Uh,

1049
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's this two song demo and they he

1050
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:23,679
Speaker 1: puts it on and I go, yeah, that's pretty good.

1051
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:27,000
Speaker 1: You know, it's like these He goes, yeah, I just

1052
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 1: I just wrote the lyrics these. I don't even know

1053
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:32,080
Speaker 1: what I was talking about it. I just wrote these

1054
01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 1: lyrics in the studio, you know, we threw these things together.

1055
01:08:35,160 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 1: And I'm listening to him. I'm going that sounds pretty good.

1056
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:43,120
Speaker 1: You know, those aren't bad, And he goes, yeah, the

1057
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 1: guys that have the studio up in San Mateo and

1058
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:50,640
Speaker 1: and there look there they're they're letting bands come up

1059
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:54,000
Speaker 1: and and do demos, you know, And so I go,

1060
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:58,680
Speaker 1: I guess wouldn't be named Marty and Paul. They ya,

1061
01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 1: those are the guys. I go, how did you find

1062
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 1: how'd they find you? And he goes, Skip found they

1063
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:10,840
Speaker 1: found Skip, and Skip found us and took and brought tom.

1064
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:13,280
Speaker 1: It was Tom John and I think at that time

1065
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:15,960
Speaker 1: it was before Dave Chobrin they had made this demo.

1066
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 1: I go, yeah, I met those guys and they go, yeah, well,

1067
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:22,799
Speaker 1: you know, we might be able to do some more demos.

1068
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 1: We're just kind of waiting to hear back. He goes,

1069
01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 1: you would you want to, you know, play on something,

1070
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 1: and saying if if we get another opportunity, I go,

1071
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 1: of course, you know that that would be wonderful. So

1072
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:38,840
Speaker 1: I don't know. A few weeks later, Tommy calls me

1073
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:43,679
Speaker 1: and says, Skip just called us. He said we should

1074
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 1: get up to the studio right away. He goes, they

1075
01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:48,679
Speaker 1: want to do they want to do some more demos,

1076
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:54,040
Speaker 1: And I go, really now and he goes yeah. I goes, wow,

1077
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:57,519
Speaker 1: I got a gig. I'll cancel my gig and you

1078
01:09:57,560 --> 01:10:00,840
Speaker 1: know we'll go do it. So so we drive up

1079
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:07,599
Speaker 1: to San Mateo and there's Skips there and and Marty

1080
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:10,559
Speaker 1: and Paul and we set up and we talked through

1081
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 1: you know, what we're going to do. And so they say, well,

1082
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:17,559
Speaker 1: you know, we have a deal here. If if we

1083
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:22,960
Speaker 1: give you the free studio time, you have to sign

1084
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 1: this contract with us that we're going to be your

1085
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:32,320
Speaker 1: representatives and that whatever we whatever these demos are, that

1086
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:37,599
Speaker 1: we own them, uh in the capacity that we're allowed

1087
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:41,839
Speaker 1: to shop them for you. And so that sounded reasonable

1088
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:44,400
Speaker 1: to me. I didn't that we don't mean better offers.

1089
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:47,360
Speaker 1: So so we went ahead and signed the contract and

1090
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 1: then we go and start doing demos. So over a

1091
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:53,840
Speaker 1: period of three or four days, I guess, we threw

1092
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:56,519
Speaker 1: these demos together. It was a couple of songs of

1093
01:10:56,560 --> 01:11:02,920
Speaker 1: mine and then four songs of Tom's. So, uh, weeks

1094
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:07,879
Speaker 1: go by. We heard the demos, we were like, wow,

1095
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:11,479
Speaker 1: those sound really good. We we never thought we could

1096
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:15,840
Speaker 1: sound that good. And we're going, yeah, wow, amazing. You know,

1097
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 1: maybe maybe something will happen. You know, when we're playing

1098
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 1: the demos for all our friends, you know, and they're

1099
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:26,400
Speaker 1: all going, wow, you guys are that sounds really good, man,

1100
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:31,120
Speaker 1: you guys, you guys are really going to do something. So, um,

1101
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:34,759
Speaker 1: weeks go by, months go by, we don't hear anything.

1102
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:39,720
Speaker 1: I guess nothing's going to happen. And and then all

1103
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:43,360
Speaker 1: of a sudden we get a call from the studio

1104
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:46,320
Speaker 1: and they say, look, we got some interest from some

1105
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:50,720
Speaker 1: different parties. A and M as interested in it. They're

1106
01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:54,639
Speaker 1: the first ones that called us. And so we spoke

1107
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:58,960
Speaker 1: to producer at A and M. And at that point

1108
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 1: we we would have taken anything, you know. And uh,

1109
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 1: then we here that well, um, a couple of guys

1110
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:11,840
Speaker 1: from Warner Brothers that want to come and see you

1111
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 1: guys play somewhere. People from and M. I think we

1112
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 1: did alive in the studio where we played for them.

1113
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:22,080
Speaker 1: We set up and then we did, you know. We

1114
01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:26,400
Speaker 1: ran through a few songs and uh it was a

1115
01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:29,519
Speaker 1: producer of note I can't remember his name. Was it

1116
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:35,280
Speaker 1: David Anderley? It was not David Anderley, it was I'd

1117
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:36,880
Speaker 1: know the name if I saw it. I think I've

1118
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:40,479
Speaker 1: seen it not that far in the in the past.

1119
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:45,640
Speaker 1: But um, so then we hear that there are a

1120
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:48,799
Speaker 1: couple of guys from Warner Brothers are coming, So they're

1121
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:52,480
Speaker 1: going to come and see us play at the Chateau Liberty,

1122
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:54,679
Speaker 1: which is this club we've been playing in the Santa

1123
01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 1: Cruz Mountains, which is kind of a hippie biker bar

1124
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:05,880
Speaker 1: really kind of ah a great place to hear music,

1125
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:13,639
Speaker 1: but it's you know, a psychedelic inferno. And we're sort

1126
01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:17,280
Speaker 1: of arguably the house band that we play there all

1127
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:21,200
Speaker 1: the time, but they love us there. We packed the

1128
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:24,519
Speaker 1: place and it's a small place, I mean full up.

1129
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:26,880
Speaker 1: It would be you know, three people, maybe three or

1130
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:29,960
Speaker 1: four people, and they would be spilling out the doors,

1131
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:33,600
Speaker 1: and we used to pack them in. I mean literally,

1132
01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:38,599
Speaker 1: you know, people were packed shoulder to shoulder in the club.

1133
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:47,360
Speaker 1: So in walks ted Templeman and Lenny Warrenker and I

1134
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:51,639
Speaker 1: one of them was wearing like a white cardigan sweater

1135
01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:59,640
Speaker 1: with with uh, you know, penny loafers and you know,

1136
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:03,240
Speaker 1: Teddy had you know, longish hair, but not long. It

1137
01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:06,960
Speaker 1: was kind of like and and and Lenny is like

1138
01:14:07,479 --> 01:14:12,160
Speaker 1: straight as an arrow, and and he's I think his

1139
01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:15,479
Speaker 1: his his sweaters like draped over his shoulders and the

1140
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:18,320
Speaker 1: sleeves are tied front of that kind of thing. And

1141
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 1: they're looking around and here's like the Hell's Angels and uh,

1142
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:26,760
Speaker 1: you know, hippies with you know, beards down to their

1143
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:32,400
Speaker 1: waist and you know, chicks with their boobs tips hanging out.

1144
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:37,600
Speaker 1: And I mean it's a scene right and drinking and

1145
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:40,880
Speaker 1: and it's loud in there. And we were in there,

1146
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:45,759
Speaker 1: and by that time I had an electric guitar and

1147
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:48,439
Speaker 1: that I had bought from the bartender, so I got

1148
01:14:48,439 --> 01:14:50,920
Speaker 1: my ample and we're turned as loud as we could go,

1149
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:55,840
Speaker 1: and we're blasting, we're rocking hard, you know, and I

1150
01:14:55,880 --> 01:14:58,400
Speaker 1: look over and you could see these guys. They stand

1151
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:02,680
Speaker 1: out like a spotlights on and their eyes are as

1152
01:15:02,840 --> 01:15:05,439
Speaker 1: big as saucers. And I'm looking at and they're kind

1153
01:15:05,439 --> 01:15:09,439
Speaker 1: of like look, you know, looking cursory back and forth,

1154
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:14,599
Speaker 1: like oh man, what have I got myself into? So

1155
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:19,439
Speaker 1: they're they're at They sit there through really the entire set.

1156
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:21,559
Speaker 1: We do a whole set there there the whole time,

1157
01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 1: and then finally, at some point, you know, we take

1158
01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:28,040
Speaker 1: a break, we go over and meet and they're really nice,

1159
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:33,080
Speaker 1: you know, very you know, complimentary. Man, you guys sound good.

1160
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:37,479
Speaker 1: We heard your demos. We really we really liked the band.

1161
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:42,240
Speaker 1: And my memory is somebody said we really like to

1162
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:47,439
Speaker 1: sign you guys. And we had talked to the people

1163
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:49,479
Speaker 1: at A and M and they had never said, we

1164
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:53,760
Speaker 1: really like to sign you guys. And UM, as far

1165
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 1: as I was concerned, A and M was a great label,

1166
01:15:57,080 --> 01:16:05,600
Speaker 1: but Warner Brothers was, you know, a staple in entertainment industry,

1167
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:09,680
Speaker 1: from films to some of the people that I that

1168
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:13,639
Speaker 1: I had admired were on Warner Brothers at the time.

1169
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:18,599
Speaker 1: So we didn't take us long to decide, Yeah, Warner

1170
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:21,800
Speaker 1: Brothers is where we would want to be, so that

1171
01:16:22,360 --> 01:16:26,720
Speaker 1: that's how we started. And you know, I think it

1172
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:29,759
Speaker 1: was just a you know, one of those random things

1173
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:33,880
Speaker 1: where our demo tape ended up at the right place.

1174
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:38,080
Speaker 1: Ted was had had been his job was kind of

1175
01:16:38,120 --> 01:16:41,760
Speaker 1: listening to new music that was being sent in through

1176
01:16:42,120 --> 01:16:45,759
Speaker 1: from different artists, and ours happened to be in the pile.

1177
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 1: And from what he told me, he listened to you know,

1178
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:55,040
Speaker 1: fifty plus artists today sending material. And he told me

1179
01:16:55,080 --> 01:16:58,080
Speaker 1: the way he listened to music was he listened to

1180
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:01,920
Speaker 1: the first song and he would listen for you know,

1181
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:06,080
Speaker 1: thirty seconds to a minute, and if it, if it

1182
01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:09,599
Speaker 1: kind of he liked it, he would go on and

1183
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:11,360
Speaker 1: get to the middle of it and listen to some

1184
01:17:11,479 --> 01:17:16,599
Speaker 1: of that, and that was it. If if he liked it,

1185
01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:20,160
Speaker 1: he knew it, and then he would go on and

1186
01:17:20,240 --> 01:17:23,320
Speaker 1: listen to the whole thing. But he said, if it

1187
01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 1: didn't hit him within that first thirty seconds to a minute,

1188
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:32,639
Speaker 1: it wasn't probably going to get go much further than that.

1189
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:38,920
Speaker 1: So sort of neat knee jerk reactions to the music,

1190
01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:42,680
Speaker 1: which is I think probably how it really still is

1191
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:49,920
Speaker 1: that way in the music industry. Um, I find myself

1192
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:55,160
Speaker 1: listening that way a little bit. I listened further because

1193
01:17:56,040 --> 01:17:59,240
Speaker 1: these days because I hear things that you know, maybe

1194
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:02,800
Speaker 1: there's something there that maybe I don't like it right away,

1195
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:06,240
Speaker 1: but if I give myself a chance, uh, you know,

1196
01:18:06,439 --> 01:18:10,519
Speaker 1: there's there is something much deeper that you can discover

1197
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:13,360
Speaker 1: if you give yourself a chance. But anyway, that that

1198
01:18:13,439 --> 01:18:23,200
Speaker 1: was our our experience. So the two of them produce

1199
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:26,519
Speaker 1: your first record, which I'm sure is a thrill You're High,

1200
01:18:27,240 --> 01:18:32,160
Speaker 1: has the single Nobody Everything Stiffs Okay, even though Nobody

1201
01:18:32,280 --> 01:18:36,639
Speaker 1: is your set opener, now set opener of your box set?

1202
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:40,280
Speaker 1: What goes through your head? And then how much pressure

1203
01:18:40,439 --> 01:18:42,720
Speaker 1: is there for the second album? I don't think we

1204
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:51,400
Speaker 1: were surprised necessarily. Um, it's you know, we were well

1205
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:55,719
Speaker 1: aware of how it works, how the music business works,

1206
01:18:55,720 --> 01:18:58,280
Speaker 1: and all the stories with that. People like to tell

1207
01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:00,920
Speaker 1: you right away, you know, and don't don't get your

1208
01:19:00,960 --> 01:19:05,439
Speaker 1: hopes up, kid. Um. And so when it didn't really hit,

1209
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:10,680
Speaker 1: I kind of thought to myself, well, boy, that was

1210
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:15,840
Speaker 1: a great chance we had. And and we got to

1211
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:18,200
Speaker 1: make an album. How many bands get to do that

1212
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:21,479
Speaker 1: on a major label. You know, I'll always be able

1213
01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:25,839
Speaker 1: to pull that album out and say, see look what

1214
01:19:26,040 --> 01:19:30,880
Speaker 1: I did. I did once, you know. And but we

1215
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:35,800
Speaker 1: still love playing together, and so we didn't really give up,

1216
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:42,479
Speaker 1: we thought, you know, um, Personally, I believed in Tommy Johnston.

1217
01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:46,200
Speaker 1: You know, I believe I still believe he's a great,

1218
01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:52,519
Speaker 1: uh songwriter, a great singer, a great stylist, a great poet.

1219
01:19:53,720 --> 01:20:00,679
Speaker 1: So to me that that, you know what, was meant

1220
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:04,000
Speaker 1: so much to me. And I just at that time,

1221
01:20:04,479 --> 01:20:07,479
Speaker 1: at that moment in time, I knew he had other

1222
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:10,000
Speaker 1: great songs that he would write. I just knew it.

1223
01:20:10,080 --> 01:20:13,519
Speaker 1: And I was still writing, and I felt like I

1224
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:17,599
Speaker 1: was getting better as a writer, and uh and I

1225
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:22,360
Speaker 1: and the whole process is a gift. You know what

1226
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:26,320
Speaker 1: I mean. Music is and was has always been a

1227
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:29,400
Speaker 1: gift for me. It's something that I didn't do because

1228
01:20:29,439 --> 01:20:33,080
Speaker 1: I thought I was going to be Liberaci. I did

1229
01:20:33,160 --> 01:20:37,320
Speaker 1: it because I love Liberacci. So you know, I want

1230
01:20:37,720 --> 01:20:42,080
Speaker 1: I wanted to be able to do that much. I

1231
01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:45,120
Speaker 1: wanted to be able to play and have fun and

1232
01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:49,280
Speaker 1: if if there was any success that came with it,

1233
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:52,240
Speaker 1: that was just frosting on the cake for me. So

1234
01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:56,240
Speaker 1: I didn't know how long I would feel that way.

1235
01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:59,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I obviously there's a point in your life

1236
01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:02,240
Speaker 1: where you're going to go, you know, give it up.

1237
01:21:02,920 --> 01:21:06,600
Speaker 1: You know you're not gonna make it. So but you know,

1238
01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:11,360
Speaker 1: I never happened. We kept on going and uh but

1239
01:21:11,680 --> 01:21:15,120
Speaker 1: initially it was simply because I loved what we were doing.

1240
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:19,320
Speaker 1: And and really through the years we've had moments where

1241
01:21:19,360 --> 01:21:24,400
Speaker 1: we we haven't done quite as well. Um I could

1242
01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:26,320
Speaker 1: say that now you know we're not. We haven't had

1243
01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:29,280
Speaker 1: big hit records for a long time. You know, who cares.

1244
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:32,680
Speaker 1: It's about whether or not somebody wants to come to

1245
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:35,280
Speaker 1: your gig and see a play, and whether or not

1246
01:21:36,120 --> 01:21:39,680
Speaker 1: you know you can afford to pay the guys to

1247
01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:43,360
Speaker 1: to to show up, you know. Um, so that it's

1248
01:21:43,400 --> 01:21:45,760
Speaker 1: still kind of the same for me, But back then

1249
01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:49,280
Speaker 1: it was it was simply just believe in in in

1250
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:53,439
Speaker 1: the Tommy, particularly as an artist. I knew that he

1251
01:21:53,479 --> 01:21:55,840
Speaker 1: was going to write some good songs that I would

1252
01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:58,920
Speaker 1: enjoy playing. You know, So the second album comes out,

1253
01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:02,080
Speaker 1: I'd be pretty close to tension. If I ever read

1254
01:22:02,120 --> 01:22:06,000
Speaker 1: anything about the first Black and White album cover that album,

1255
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:08,719
Speaker 1: I don't remember. And I'm living in the hinter land

1256
01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:13,040
Speaker 1: and out of nowhere. Listen to the music just black

1257
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:15,120
Speaker 1: you're reading about everywhere there's this band that do be

1258
01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:18,080
Speaker 1: brubh blah blah blah blah. When you were cutting that album,

1259
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:21,200
Speaker 1: did you know that? Listen to the music, man, this

1260
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:24,400
Speaker 1: is gonna be our ticket to paradise. I don't think

1261
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:27,479
Speaker 1: you can predict things like that. I certainly knew it

1262
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:31,320
Speaker 1: was a good song, and I knew that for our

1263
01:22:31,439 --> 01:22:35,320
Speaker 1: band anyway, I don't think it it's funny because I

1264
01:22:35,360 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 1: don't think our music is quite like a lot of

1265
01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:44,479
Speaker 1: other bands. You know, we're a little more We're like

1266
01:22:44,600 --> 01:22:47,439
Speaker 1: the the White Eisley Brothers, you know what I mean.

1267
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:53,040
Speaker 1: In a way, we're kind of um. You know, you

1268
01:22:53,040 --> 01:22:56,080
Speaker 1: could just you look at bands from the era, they

1269
01:22:56,320 --> 01:23:01,920
Speaker 1: weren't doing quite as much UH pop R and B

1270
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:06,000
Speaker 1: maybe as we were doing at that time. A lot

1271
01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:11,760
Speaker 1: of the music was more h I'm not sure. I

1272
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:15,160
Speaker 1: can't even you know, I can't even tell you what

1273
01:23:15,320 --> 01:23:17,360
Speaker 1: was going on in the music world. But I knew

1274
01:23:17,400 --> 01:23:21,200
Speaker 1: that we were we had a different take on what

1275
01:23:21,240 --> 01:23:25,200
Speaker 1: we were doing and who we were. UM. Even as

1276
01:23:25,560 --> 01:23:29,120
Speaker 1: as big a fans of the Moby Grape as we were,

1277
01:23:29,479 --> 01:23:32,559
Speaker 1: we weren't like the Moby Grape in that regard. We

1278
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:38,720
Speaker 1: were different, a different kind of a band. UM. But

1279
01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:42,000
Speaker 1: I knew that that song listen to music, I just

1280
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:45,120
Speaker 1: knew it was a good song, and I knew it

1281
01:23:45,240 --> 01:23:50,280
Speaker 1: was as far as what we were presenting, it was it.

1282
01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:54,920
Speaker 1: It exemplified the kind of music that we were doing. UM.

1283
01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:58,439
Speaker 1: And in a certain sense, that was an extension of

1284
01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:02,040
Speaker 1: a song like Nobody. UM. We had another song on

1285
01:24:02,080 --> 01:24:04,559
Speaker 1: that record called Feeling Down Farther. I think it was

1286
01:24:04,640 --> 01:24:10,840
Speaker 1: more of a direct um result or not result, but

1287
01:24:11,240 --> 01:24:14,160
Speaker 1: much more related to that that kind of a riff.

1288
01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 1: But the riff was so catchy when I heard it,

1289
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:23,639
Speaker 1: I thought, well, that that is who Tom is as

1290
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:27,760
Speaker 1: a guitar player he has that, you know, it's sort

1291
01:24:27,760 --> 01:24:32,080
Speaker 1: of a signature kind of a way of playing. And

1292
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:36,880
Speaker 1: I loved that aspect I was so you know, it

1293
01:24:36,920 --> 01:24:41,800
Speaker 1: was really uplifting for me personally to hear him recognizing

1294
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:46,960
Speaker 1: that aspect of himself that he did so well, and so,

1295
01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:49,200
Speaker 1: you know, I felt it was really good. And then

1296
01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:53,120
Speaker 1: as a song, I just loved the you know, being

1297
01:24:53,160 --> 01:24:57,840
Speaker 1: an old hippie and as as much of a hippie

1298
01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:01,080
Speaker 1: then as I ever was, you know, it really had

1299
01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:07,920
Speaker 1: a message that of goodness and peace and brotherhood that

1300
01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:11,080
Speaker 1: that I believed and still believe in at the time.

1301
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:13,680
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, I was able to jump in

1302
01:25:13,880 --> 01:25:17,960
Speaker 1: head first and help to make it as as good

1303
01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:20,640
Speaker 1: as we could possibly make it. So the song that

1304
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:23,280
Speaker 1: I play most on the album at this point in

1305
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:26,240
Speaker 1: time that really resonates and I'm not blowing smoke up

1306
01:25:26,240 --> 01:25:29,920
Speaker 1: your grass is to Loose Street, which is your song?

1307
01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:33,000
Speaker 1: Tell me the backstory on that. We had been on

1308
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:38,519
Speaker 1: the road with Mother Earth nineteen seventy one. I think

1309
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:41,479
Speaker 1: we went out on the road with them, traveling around

1310
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:45,599
Speaker 1: the country, and my memory is we did end up

1311
01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:49,040
Speaker 1: in New Orleans briefly. I think we did a date there,

1312
01:25:49,680 --> 01:25:53,680
Speaker 1: I want to say, with Alice Cooper and UH and

1313
01:25:53,800 --> 01:25:58,599
Speaker 1: Mother Earth maybe the three of us, and we were

1314
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:02,320
Speaker 1: we had done a tour called the Mother's Brothers Show,

1315
01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:06,240
Speaker 1: which was a series of dates sponsored by Warner Brothers.

1316
01:26:06,520 --> 01:26:11,280
Speaker 1: We both were UH kind of new acts for the label,

1317
01:26:11,640 --> 01:26:15,720
Speaker 1: and they were those are the days when they were

1318
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:19,599
Speaker 1: trying to break their acts in you know, different you know,

1319
01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:22,240
Speaker 1: going out at different ways. But anyway, they put up

1320
01:26:22,240 --> 01:26:24,720
Speaker 1: the money for this tour and we went all over

1321
01:26:24,760 --> 01:26:29,120
Speaker 1: the country, did about thirty shows maybe something like that,

1322
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:31,519
Speaker 1: and we ended up in New Orleans. Well, of course,

1323
01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:33,960
Speaker 1: anyone that's been to New Orleans and knows what a

1324
01:26:33,960 --> 01:26:38,280
Speaker 1: wonderful town it is, and so I basically fell in

1325
01:26:38,320 --> 01:26:42,240
Speaker 1: love with it. So months later, after you know, the

1326
01:26:42,320 --> 01:26:49,519
Speaker 1: album had um had kind of stiffed. I think by

1327
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:53,800
Speaker 1: that time, we were still booking shows everywhere, and we

1328
01:26:53,920 --> 01:27:02,200
Speaker 1: got this offer to play these various venues around the South,

1329
01:27:03,040 --> 01:27:07,680
Speaker 1: and so we ended up somehow we went down to

1330
01:27:07,800 --> 01:27:11,479
Speaker 1: New Orleans and we stayed in town there and then

1331
01:27:11,479 --> 01:27:14,360
Speaker 1: we went out and we played these you know, Baton

1332
01:27:14,479 --> 01:27:19,519
Speaker 1: Rouge and these little parishes that were had clubs, and

1333
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:22,679
Speaker 1: we were able to make enough money to we wandn't

1334
01:27:22,720 --> 01:27:24,439
Speaker 1: make a lot of money, but we're able to make

1335
01:27:24,520 --> 01:27:30,759
Speaker 1: money to UM pay for our overhead. And we took

1336
01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:34,080
Speaker 1: albums down there, and we went into a record store

1337
01:27:34,160 --> 01:27:38,640
Speaker 1: there and we tried to sell some albums in the

1338
01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:41,719
Speaker 1: in the area. I don't know if we ever did.

1339
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:43,519
Speaker 1: I think we went to ended up in a record

1340
01:27:43,520 --> 01:27:46,640
Speaker 1: store like Spinal Tap and nobody nobody even came, you know.

1341
01:27:48,080 --> 01:27:52,559
Speaker 1: But so we're down there for quite a few days,

1342
01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:58,240
Speaker 1: and I think we had already begun working on the

1343
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:04,000
Speaker 1: album to Lose Street, and I was walking just you know,

1344
01:28:04,040 --> 01:28:10,360
Speaker 1: walking around town and experiencing like a tourist New Orleans,

1345
01:28:10,479 --> 01:28:14,639
Speaker 1: and you know, eating at the gumbo shops and uh,

1346
01:28:14,680 --> 01:28:16,880
Speaker 1: you know, down in the French Market and taking the

1347
01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:23,560
Speaker 1: street car and so on. And UM came away from

1348
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:29,680
Speaker 1: that experience just in love with New Orleans as as

1349
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:35,000
Speaker 1: a town, the people, the scene. UM and and wrote

1350
01:28:35,040 --> 01:28:41,120
Speaker 1: that song and we went into the studio in San Francisco.

1351
01:28:41,680 --> 01:28:46,920
Speaker 1: Wally Hiders and Warners had been dumb enough to give

1352
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:50,759
Speaker 1: us a budget, and we ended up in the studio

1353
01:28:50,880 --> 01:28:53,800
Speaker 1: there as our own producers. We decided we could do

1354
01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:57,479
Speaker 1: it better than than Ted and Lenny and we UH

1355
01:28:58,760 --> 01:29:02,360
Speaker 1: started recording songs, and out of all those songs, I

1356
01:29:02,360 --> 01:29:05,400
Speaker 1: think we got three songs that ended up on Talu Street,

1357
01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:12,040
Speaker 1: one being Talu Street, another something White Sun, and then

1358
01:29:12,600 --> 01:29:16,439
Speaker 1: this song called snake Man that Tommy wrote, and they

1359
01:29:16,439 --> 01:29:20,519
Speaker 1: were all ended up on the album, almost abbreviations of

1360
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:23,720
Speaker 1: what we had actually done in San Francisco, except for

1361
01:29:23,800 --> 01:29:28,360
Speaker 1: Toulu Street. And I had written that song and we

1362
01:29:28,400 --> 01:29:32,040
Speaker 1: went in and recorded it, and I had been playing

1363
01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:35,200
Speaker 1: the flute. Somebody gave me a flute, and I had

1364
01:29:35,439 --> 01:29:38,280
Speaker 1: learned to play taught myself to play the flute, and

1365
01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:41,080
Speaker 1: we got UH. We had the record of the song

1366
01:29:41,160 --> 01:29:44,160
Speaker 1: and I and I I realized it was in a

1367
01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:46,240
Speaker 1: key that was good for the flute, and I said,

1368
01:29:46,240 --> 01:29:49,280
Speaker 1: the guys, the guys cure if I try a flute

1369
01:29:49,320 --> 01:29:51,360
Speaker 1: on this song. So I went in and I played

1370
01:29:51,400 --> 01:29:53,600
Speaker 1: the flute on it, and it was kind of the

1371
01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:57,840
Speaker 1: perfect tonality and kind of mood for the song. So

1372
01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:00,840
Speaker 1: it ended up on the record as well. UM and

1373
01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:04,000
Speaker 1: then we've recorded that song, did the background vocals, the

1374
01:30:04,040 --> 01:30:08,760
Speaker 1: three of us, and it was myself, Tom and Dave

1375
01:30:08,840 --> 01:30:12,040
Speaker 1: Shogren and Dave was our bass player at the time,

1376
01:30:12,160 --> 01:30:16,760
Speaker 1: and he ended up playing acoustic guitar, and he did

1377
01:30:17,160 --> 01:30:21,080
Speaker 1: picking guitar with mine as well, which was really added

1378
01:30:21,120 --> 01:30:24,599
Speaker 1: to it. I never realized he could do that until

1379
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:27,680
Speaker 1: we did that record, and then so that ended up

1380
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:31,000
Speaker 1: being on the album. In the end, Ted said, yeah,

1381
01:30:31,040 --> 01:30:33,840
Speaker 1: we're gonna put that out that on the record as well,

1382
01:30:34,439 --> 01:30:38,240
Speaker 1: and then we as we did the record, we realized

1383
01:30:38,320 --> 01:30:41,679
Speaker 1: it was a real reflection of our love for Southern

1384
01:30:41,760 --> 01:30:46,639
Speaker 1: music because there's so much on there. The blues based,

1385
01:30:47,479 --> 01:30:51,519
Speaker 1: uh and some kind of folky based stuff, but all

1386
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:57,960
Speaker 1: of it reflects kind of that Southern mentality and our

1387
01:30:58,360 --> 01:31:01,040
Speaker 1: experience in the South. You know, I think we all

1388
01:31:01,200 --> 01:31:05,200
Speaker 1: we all loved it h and had not we were

1389
01:31:05,240 --> 01:31:09,120
Speaker 1: really California guys when we got down there. We weren't

1390
01:31:09,160 --> 01:31:13,840
Speaker 1: California guys anymore. We were Southern guys. We kind of

1391
01:31:13,960 --> 01:31:17,559
Speaker 1: we didn't reinvent ourselves. I think we found ourselves who

1392
01:31:17,600 --> 01:31:21,040
Speaker 1: we who we had been all along, and uh, you know,

1393
01:31:21,080 --> 01:31:24,439
Speaker 1: that's kind of where we are today. The second album,

1394
01:31:24,640 --> 01:31:27,000
Speaker 1: you almost can't ask for more success, but the third

1395
01:31:27,080 --> 01:31:32,240
Speaker 1: album becomes ubiquitous with China Grove and Long Train Running.

1396
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:36,360
Speaker 1: But my favorite song on that album is the open

1397
01:31:36,479 --> 01:31:38,839
Speaker 1: or natural thing. And if you go into the credits,

1398
01:31:39,280 --> 01:31:43,599
Speaker 1: it's Robert Margloff and Malcolm cec. Of course we're famous

1399
01:31:43,600 --> 01:31:47,200
Speaker 1: for working with Stevie Wonder. How did those guys get involved?

1400
01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:52,519
Speaker 1: We heard that Stevie Wonder album. Um, I want to

1401
01:31:52,560 --> 01:31:54,320
Speaker 1: say songs in the Key of Life, but it might

1402
01:31:54,320 --> 01:31:56,280
Speaker 1: have been something. I think it was talking book at

1403
01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:59,000
Speaker 1: that point. That's right, That's right, that's it was. And

1404
01:31:59,200 --> 01:32:04,960
Speaker 1: uh was just the most amazing record and the you

1405
01:32:05,000 --> 01:32:09,160
Speaker 1: know whatever Stevie wondered us, it's amazing. But uh that

1406
01:32:09,520 --> 01:32:12,519
Speaker 1: he for the first time, and I'm sure we had

1407
01:32:12,640 --> 01:32:17,040
Speaker 1: heard the synthesizer before in music, but he it was

1408
01:32:17,080 --> 01:32:20,960
Speaker 1: at the forefront of his record, and uh, you know,

1409
01:32:21,120 --> 01:32:24,960
Speaker 1: start reading about it. I'm sure there was articles written

1410
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:29,120
Speaker 1: about it, and we heard about these guys and we

1411
01:32:30,400 --> 01:32:36,320
Speaker 1: mentioned it Ted, Ted, we'd really like to graduate to this,

1412
01:32:37,800 --> 01:32:41,680
Speaker 1: you know, this instrument, and I don't know how we

1413
01:32:41,720 --> 01:32:44,280
Speaker 1: can do it, how we can incorporate it into our music,

1414
01:32:44,320 --> 01:32:50,200
Speaker 1: but we really feel strongly about moving in that direction.

1415
01:32:50,320 --> 01:32:54,240
Speaker 1: What do you think? And he said, absolutely, I know

1416
01:32:54,320 --> 01:32:57,479
Speaker 1: about it as well, and uh, let's do it. So

1417
01:32:57,520 --> 01:33:01,280
Speaker 1: we contacted them. I'm sure Ted contacted them because as

1418
01:33:01,320 --> 01:33:05,479
Speaker 1: a producer. He was always at the forefront of helping

1419
01:33:05,600 --> 01:33:12,439
Speaker 1: us to contact our resources and musicians and pull it

1420
01:33:12,439 --> 01:33:16,200
Speaker 1: all together. He had this assistant, Benita Brazier, who was

1421
01:33:16,920 --> 01:33:24,720
Speaker 1: this incredible assistant of his who was really um instrumental

1422
01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:27,080
Speaker 1: and and doing so much for us. She's the one

1423
01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:29,240
Speaker 1: who helped us put that album covered together for the

1424
01:33:29,280 --> 01:33:34,440
Speaker 1: Captain and me among other things. But anyway, we contacted

1425
01:33:34,680 --> 01:33:39,960
Speaker 1: UH Robert and Malcolm and and they came and brought

1426
01:33:40,439 --> 01:33:49,200
Speaker 1: this This UH structure was huge. Um it was probably

1427
01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:53,680
Speaker 1: you know, three ft high and four ft wide, and

1428
01:33:53,760 --> 01:33:58,720
Speaker 1: it had all these plugs and they were you know, um,

1429
01:33:59,160 --> 01:34:06,120
Speaker 1: quarter inch plugs like guitar type plugs, and that you

1430
01:34:06,160 --> 01:34:09,280
Speaker 1: would they would plug. And then and then there was

1431
01:34:09,320 --> 01:34:12,320
Speaker 1: a keyboard in front and a small keyboard. It was

1432
01:34:12,479 --> 01:34:18,720
Speaker 1: maybe you know, a third of an actual piano keyboard

1433
01:34:18,920 --> 01:34:23,880
Speaker 1: what you'd see a normal keyboard would be. And and

1434
01:34:23,880 --> 01:34:26,479
Speaker 1: then they would take the plugs and they would plug

1435
01:34:26,560 --> 01:34:33,400
Speaker 1: from one junction point to another in this UH the structure,

1436
01:34:34,200 --> 01:34:38,440
Speaker 1: and it would create waveforms. And every time they plugged differently,

1437
01:34:38,600 --> 01:34:40,240
Speaker 1: it would come up they'd come up with a new

1438
01:34:40,280 --> 01:34:45,920
Speaker 1: waveform UH different. It was how they plugged it as

1439
01:34:45,960 --> 01:34:50,920
Speaker 1: to how the the tones would change. So for a

1440
01:34:50,960 --> 01:34:53,320
Speaker 1: low tone, they would plug it a certain way. For

1441
01:34:53,360 --> 01:34:55,439
Speaker 1: a high tone, they'd plug it a certain wave for

1442
01:34:55,880 --> 01:35:02,400
Speaker 1: you know, uh, for a a waveform that was uh,

1443
01:35:02,439 --> 01:35:04,920
Speaker 1: you know, spiked kind of a form, they plug it

1444
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:10,479
Speaker 1: a certain way. So every form had a certain h

1445
01:35:11,439 --> 01:35:13,800
Speaker 1: and they knew it. They knew the formula for how

1446
01:35:13,840 --> 01:35:17,120
Speaker 1: to how to make the sounds, and so they just

1447
01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:19,000
Speaker 1: started doing it. Well, what do you how do you

1448
01:35:19,040 --> 01:35:20,640
Speaker 1: like this sound? How do you like that sound? What

1449
01:35:20,680 --> 01:35:22,080
Speaker 1: do you what do you think of this sound? And

1450
01:35:22,160 --> 01:35:25,320
Speaker 1: we would play, you know, we got to play the keyboard.

1451
01:35:25,400 --> 01:35:28,400
Speaker 1: We would play, or they would play, somebody would play

1452
01:35:28,560 --> 01:35:32,360
Speaker 1: until we found that sounds that we that were generated

1453
01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:36,240
Speaker 1: from this U synthesizer that we liked. And in that

1454
01:35:36,439 --> 01:35:39,240
Speaker 1: with natural thing, it was a horn sound. I'm sure

1455
01:35:39,280 --> 01:35:43,959
Speaker 1: Tom said, do you have something that's more brassy sounding

1456
01:35:44,080 --> 01:35:48,080
Speaker 1: or horn like? And I'm sure he had something in mind,

1457
01:35:48,160 --> 01:35:52,519
Speaker 1: something you'd heard on Stevie's record or something, And so

1458
01:35:52,600 --> 01:35:55,040
Speaker 1: they came up with that horn sound for us, and

1459
01:35:55,240 --> 01:35:57,519
Speaker 1: Tom said, I love that. That's that's it, that's it.

1460
01:35:58,000 --> 01:36:01,920
Speaker 1: And so Tommy played that he uh, and all you

1461
01:36:01,920 --> 01:36:05,160
Speaker 1: could play was one note at a time in order

1462
01:36:05,200 --> 01:36:07,600
Speaker 1: to get a chord. You'd play that one note and

1463
01:36:07,640 --> 01:36:12,240
Speaker 1: then you'd have to double that note using another key

1464
01:36:12,280 --> 01:36:15,000
Speaker 1: on the keyboard to get a harmony, and then you

1465
01:36:15,120 --> 01:36:17,479
Speaker 1: just build it up until it made a complete chord.

1466
01:36:17,960 --> 01:36:21,640
Speaker 1: So I think that's probably three notes to build that.

1467
01:36:21,800 --> 01:36:25,800
Speaker 1: But by spreading it, you know, across the mix, it

1468
01:36:25,840 --> 01:36:28,720
Speaker 1: makes it sound huge. And you know, Don Landy was

1469
01:36:28,800 --> 01:36:33,760
Speaker 1: really good at product producing, making more out of a

1470
01:36:33,800 --> 01:36:36,519
Speaker 1: sound than you had so with reverb and effects and

1471
01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:40,200
Speaker 1: so on. So um, anyway, that's how that song was.

1472
01:36:40,439 --> 01:36:44,519
Speaker 1: That sound was created and we ended up using I

1473
01:36:44,560 --> 01:36:48,479
Speaker 1: think we used it on three different tracks on the record.

1474
01:36:49,439 --> 01:36:54,519
Speaker 1: Uh Salsie Midnight Lady was another track, and there's something

1475
01:36:54,560 --> 01:36:57,400
Speaker 1: else on that record. I don't remember those two songs.

1476
01:36:57,439 --> 01:37:01,720
Speaker 1: Those two songs, it stands out in the tracks, so

1477
01:37:01,760 --> 01:37:06,439
Speaker 1: you can really hear what the synthesizers doing. But it

1478
01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:09,840
Speaker 1: was life changing from us, you know. So you go

1479
01:37:10,040 --> 01:37:15,240
Speaker 1: from nowhere to somewhere to being so ubiquitous. This is

1480
01:37:15,320 --> 01:37:18,880
Speaker 1: now and we have Friday and Saturday night music shows

1481
01:37:18,920 --> 01:37:21,719
Speaker 1: on TV. You're on those that there's almost a Doobie

1482
01:37:21,760 --> 01:37:26,000
Speaker 1: Brothers backlash because you're so big what's it like on

1483
01:37:26,040 --> 01:37:29,479
Speaker 1: the other side of the footlights? Okay, what's it like

1484
01:37:29,640 --> 01:37:33,680
Speaker 1: being in the middle you're finally making some money in retrospect,

1485
01:37:33,760 --> 01:37:36,200
Speaker 1: when you're ripped off where you're so busy working that

1486
01:37:36,200 --> 01:37:37,880
Speaker 1: you didn't know which end was up? What was it

1487
01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:41,799
Speaker 1: like for you? Boy? Good question. You know, I think

1488
01:37:43,240 --> 01:37:47,120
Speaker 1: I was so happy just to have some success at

1489
01:37:47,120 --> 01:37:52,160
Speaker 1: what we were doing. I don't ah, certainly, you know,

1490
01:37:52,240 --> 01:37:56,960
Speaker 1: you get tired, and you know, things get a little

1491
01:37:58,479 --> 01:38:06,679
Speaker 1: you know, um foggy as it were. But I enjoyed

1492
01:38:06,680 --> 01:38:08,840
Speaker 1: every minute of it. I just kind of went, you know,

1493
01:38:08,920 --> 01:38:11,439
Speaker 1: this is what we worked towards. And I knew I

1494
01:38:11,560 --> 01:38:16,160
Speaker 1: always in the back of my mind, I always felt, well,

1495
01:38:16,160 --> 01:38:18,439
Speaker 1: this you know, it took us a long time to

1496
01:38:18,479 --> 01:38:21,160
Speaker 1: get here, but at any moment, you know, it could end,

1497
01:38:21,479 --> 01:38:25,160
Speaker 1: and so you know, enjoy every moment of it, get

1498
01:38:25,240 --> 01:38:29,240
Speaker 1: get the most out of it that you can. Um.

1499
01:38:29,439 --> 01:38:32,800
Speaker 1: I I really didn't second guess it. You know, I

1500
01:38:32,840 --> 01:38:38,639
Speaker 1: recognized that it was probably taking away from other aspects

1501
01:38:38,640 --> 01:38:41,720
Speaker 1: of my life that I was missing, you know, some

1502
01:38:41,880 --> 01:38:45,719
Speaker 1: of the some of the ride, but I really didn't

1503
01:38:45,720 --> 01:38:47,680
Speaker 1: care to be honest with the music. Was I was

1504
01:38:47,760 --> 01:38:54,200
Speaker 1: married to music? And everything else sort of took a

1505
01:38:54,200 --> 01:39:01,280
Speaker 1: back seat. So I think I just enjoyed every bit

1506
01:39:01,320 --> 01:39:06,360
Speaker 1: of it, you know, I mean, I love to travel.

1507
01:39:06,840 --> 01:39:08,800
Speaker 1: I got to go back to New Orleans. I love

1508
01:39:08,880 --> 01:39:16,280
Speaker 1: that I go there a lot. Still, Um, I loved California,

1509
01:39:16,400 --> 01:39:19,240
Speaker 1: so you know, I got to got to see California

1510
01:39:19,360 --> 01:39:22,200
Speaker 1: for you know, the place it really is. You know,

1511
01:39:22,280 --> 01:39:26,120
Speaker 1: most people, you know, you live one place and it's

1512
01:39:26,160 --> 01:39:28,880
Speaker 1: a it's a great state to live in. But you know,

1513
01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:32,040
Speaker 1: to to get around and see from one end to

1514
01:39:32,080 --> 01:39:35,479
Speaker 1: the other, and to see the whole planet from one

1515
01:39:35,560 --> 01:39:40,320
Speaker 1: end to the other became, you know, something that I

1516
01:39:40,800 --> 01:39:46,559
Speaker 1: never in my wildest imagination could have could have foreseen. Um.

1517
01:39:46,600 --> 01:39:50,960
Speaker 1: You know, I'm a hopeless collector. I collect stuff, right,

1518
01:39:51,920 --> 01:39:56,200
Speaker 1: I collected stamps when I was a kid. So I

1519
01:39:56,240 --> 01:40:00,760
Speaker 1: saw the planet in little you know, one by one

1520
01:40:01,040 --> 01:40:07,000
Speaker 1: squares for a good portion of my child my life.

1521
01:40:07,520 --> 01:40:13,240
Speaker 1: And to be you know, seeing places that I've only

1522
01:40:13,280 --> 01:40:18,360
Speaker 1: seen in postage stamps, you know, was beyond what I

1523
01:40:18,360 --> 01:40:21,760
Speaker 1: had ever hoped for. So you know, I love what

1524
01:40:21,960 --> 01:40:31,160
Speaker 1: I do. You know, I love what we do. Okay,

1525
01:40:31,200 --> 01:40:35,000
Speaker 1: Captain Me almost couldn't be more successful. Doobie Brothers, one

1526
01:40:35,000 --> 01:40:37,280
Speaker 1: of the biggest beings in the land. You put out

1527
01:40:37,280 --> 01:40:39,880
Speaker 1: the next album, What were one's vices are now habits?

1528
01:40:39,960 --> 01:40:43,519
Speaker 1: I don't care what anybody says. It's the Apotheosius, the

1529
01:40:43,640 --> 01:40:46,679
Speaker 1: best album from that era, and there was a lot

1530
01:40:46,840 --> 01:40:50,120
Speaker 1: of print type about it. And the song is going

1531
01:40:50,160 --> 01:40:53,120
Speaker 1: to be another Park another Sunday. You know, Tom has

1532
01:40:53,160 --> 01:40:56,680
Speaker 1: told me that, you know, their issues with radio stations

1533
01:40:56,760 --> 01:40:59,519
Speaker 1: took it off because you know, what's the lyric in

1534
01:40:59,560 --> 01:41:04,200
Speaker 1: the song. Whatever its stalls. The album comes out in February,

1535
01:41:04,760 --> 01:41:09,679
Speaker 1: all of a sudden November, Blackwater comes on and then

1536
01:41:09,760 --> 01:41:13,240
Speaker 1: just sustains it becomes a classic. So just a few

1537
01:41:13,320 --> 01:41:16,599
Speaker 1: questions on that album. One did you feel the pressure? Two?

1538
01:41:16,600 --> 01:41:21,679
Speaker 1: Were you disappointed? Three? Tell me the backstory on Blackwater? Well,

1539
01:41:21,720 --> 01:41:24,519
Speaker 1: you know that that album, Uh, it took a long

1540
01:41:24,560 --> 01:41:28,400
Speaker 1: time to get going. Um, and I think there was

1541
01:41:28,439 --> 01:41:32,080
Speaker 1: a certain disappointment obviously. You know when you're a musician

1542
01:41:32,680 --> 01:41:36,880
Speaker 1: an artist that you know you've been riding the gravy

1543
01:41:36,920 --> 01:41:42,599
Speaker 1: train for a while and then suddenly it's like, where's

1544
01:41:42,680 --> 01:41:47,120
Speaker 1: the hit? You know, I don't think I worry about

1545
01:41:47,160 --> 01:41:53,240
Speaker 1: the hit. I think I you The whole thing for

1546
01:41:53,320 --> 01:42:01,680
Speaker 1: me personally is the act of creativity. So I worry.

1547
01:42:01,479 --> 01:42:04,479
Speaker 1: I worried more about the fact that will we be

1548
01:42:04,560 --> 01:42:09,720
Speaker 1: able to continue our creative process, because you know, I hit,

1549
01:42:10,120 --> 01:42:15,200
Speaker 1: HiT's a hit, but it's just another song that we made.

1550
01:42:15,400 --> 01:42:19,120
Speaker 1: Albums we didn't make, you know, hits. We wanted to

1551
01:42:19,120 --> 01:42:24,920
Speaker 1: make records, and you get a hit. It's the thing

1552
01:42:25,000 --> 01:42:31,040
Speaker 1: that drives your career. And so the career being making music.

1553
01:42:31,360 --> 01:42:34,880
Speaker 1: You know, it's not making hits or making money, it's

1554
01:42:34,920 --> 01:42:40,919
Speaker 1: making music. And so I that's probably was, if anything,

1555
01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:43,479
Speaker 1: that's probably the thing that I was most concerned about.

1556
01:42:43,479 --> 01:42:45,800
Speaker 1: I wanted to keep making music, certainly want to make

1557
01:42:45,800 --> 01:42:49,120
Speaker 1: a living, but you know, how much money do you need?

1558
01:42:49,200 --> 01:42:51,719
Speaker 1: Who cares? You know, it's more about are you happy

1559
01:42:51,840 --> 01:42:54,840
Speaker 1: and are you doing the thing something that you love?

1560
01:42:55,520 --> 01:42:58,639
Speaker 1: And so that was a concern to me. So when

1561
01:42:58,800 --> 01:43:02,439
Speaker 1: when the record petered out a little bit, I kind

1562
01:43:02,439 --> 01:43:05,880
Speaker 1: of thought, well, you know, we gotta go back in

1563
01:43:05,960 --> 01:43:10,200
Speaker 1: and make another record. That's all, you know, the big deal.

1564
01:43:10,439 --> 01:43:14,120
Speaker 1: You know, that's what we would want to do. And

1565
01:43:14,160 --> 01:43:16,960
Speaker 1: if you know, how many of those are we going

1566
01:43:16,960 --> 01:43:18,960
Speaker 1: to get a chance to do, we better do it

1567
01:43:18,960 --> 01:43:21,559
Speaker 1: while we have a chance. So so I was ready

1568
01:43:21,600 --> 01:43:24,760
Speaker 1: to kind of go back in. I was right, you know,

1569
01:43:25,000 --> 01:43:28,439
Speaker 1: writing more songs myself, and I think Tommy was probably

1570
01:43:29,080 --> 01:43:31,360
Speaker 1: you know, we probably had that discussion at some point. Yeah,

1571
01:43:31,360 --> 01:43:33,320
Speaker 1: it looks like we're maybe not going to get a

1572
01:43:33,400 --> 01:43:35,200
Speaker 1: hit off this record. Maybe we need to, you know,

1573
01:43:35,479 --> 01:43:39,120
Speaker 1: get go in and write some more songs. And then

1574
01:43:39,400 --> 01:43:43,559
Speaker 1: we were we were in Europe, I think, doing we

1575
01:43:43,560 --> 01:43:47,400
Speaker 1: we got this invite to do this again. Warner Brothers

1576
01:43:47,400 --> 01:43:50,400
Speaker 1: are so innovative in terms of what they do and

1577
01:43:50,439 --> 01:43:53,120
Speaker 1: at that time how much money they were spending on

1578
01:43:53,160 --> 01:44:02,120
Speaker 1: their artists. They took the Doobie Brothers, Little Feet, Tower Power, Montrose,

1579
01:44:04,080 --> 01:44:09,519
Speaker 1: uh Graham, Central Station, and a band called Bonnaru to

1580
01:44:09,680 --> 01:44:16,000
Speaker 1: Europe to do this tour. Um. And we were there

1581
01:44:16,000 --> 01:44:20,160
Speaker 1: doing that tour when one day somebody came in and said, hey,

1582
01:44:20,960 --> 01:44:24,559
Speaker 1: looks like you got a hit. Really, what what's going on?

1583
01:44:24,680 --> 01:44:30,519
Speaker 1: They said Blackwater? I go, I don't think so, you know,

1584
01:44:30,760 --> 01:44:35,320
Speaker 1: we all we're looking at another song. I was anyway

1585
01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:39,400
Speaker 1: thinking there's other songs that could be hits off the record.

1586
01:44:39,439 --> 01:44:43,559
Speaker 1: That wasn't one of them. Um. But I kind of

1587
01:44:43,680 --> 01:44:46,519
Speaker 1: took you with a grain of salt, because you know,

1588
01:44:46,560 --> 01:44:50,200
Speaker 1: people say stuff like that doesn't mean it's true, and

1589
01:44:50,960 --> 01:44:53,479
Speaker 1: we just kind of continue the tour and you know,

1590
01:44:53,560 --> 01:44:56,840
Speaker 1: we're it was good news if it was true, but

1591
01:44:56,920 --> 01:45:00,519
Speaker 1: if it wasn't true, you know, we're here are doing

1592
01:45:00,600 --> 01:45:04,559
Speaker 1: something really cool that we love and with all these

1593
01:45:04,600 --> 01:45:08,559
Speaker 1: great bands. And so it turns out it was true.

1594
01:45:08,600 --> 01:45:10,680
Speaker 1: We got back and the record was getting played. It

1595
01:45:10,800 --> 01:45:14,599
Speaker 1: was just, you know, a big surprise, and I told

1596
01:45:14,600 --> 01:45:17,880
Speaker 1: the guys see all along, I was it was me,

1597
01:45:18,080 --> 01:45:23,240
Speaker 1: it was but you know, so that we lucked out

1598
01:45:23,320 --> 01:45:26,559
Speaker 1: on that one. How was that song created? Kind of

1599
01:45:26,560 --> 01:45:28,800
Speaker 1: the same way to Louse Street was created? The song

1600
01:45:28,840 --> 01:45:33,720
Speaker 1: to Louse Street down in New Orleans. Um, I had,

1601
01:45:33,800 --> 01:45:36,920
Speaker 1: I had the riff and I played it for Ted

1602
01:45:37,000 --> 01:45:39,080
Speaker 1: in the studio one time. I think we were making

1603
01:45:40,200 --> 01:45:42,720
Speaker 1: uh we were in the studio doing the Captain and

1604
01:45:42,760 --> 01:45:45,599
Speaker 1: the album and I had that riff way back then

1605
01:45:46,320 --> 01:45:49,840
Speaker 1: and I was fiddling around between takes on something else.

1606
01:45:49,880 --> 01:45:53,120
Speaker 1: I was putting some guitar on something and I was

1607
01:45:53,600 --> 01:45:56,840
Speaker 1: fiddling with the riff and that's what is that? And

1608
01:45:56,840 --> 01:45:59,640
Speaker 1: I go, just, you know, some riff that I have,

1609
01:45:59,680 --> 01:46:03,600
Speaker 1: and that's really cool. You should think about writing a

1610
01:46:03,640 --> 01:46:07,160
Speaker 1: song with that. And I go, yeah, I'd like to

1611
01:46:07,320 --> 01:46:11,240
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, I've been trying so anyway,

1612
01:46:11,280 --> 01:46:15,439
Speaker 1: got down to New Orleans and still fiddling around with

1613
01:46:15,479 --> 01:46:22,000
Speaker 1: that riff. And really I have always kind of written

1614
01:46:22,040 --> 01:46:27,479
Speaker 1: songs in two different ways. One way, I'll write, you know,

1615
01:46:27,840 --> 01:46:31,960
Speaker 1: chords and try to lay lyrics on top of that

1616
01:46:32,520 --> 01:46:36,600
Speaker 1: with melodies and other what times I'll write poetry and

1617
01:46:36,640 --> 01:46:39,040
Speaker 1: then bring the poetry back and see if I can

1618
01:46:39,120 --> 01:46:42,320
Speaker 1: fit it in somewhere with with something I'm working on.

1619
01:46:42,840 --> 01:46:46,760
Speaker 1: In the case of Blackwater, I started writing images and

1620
01:46:47,520 --> 01:46:52,639
Speaker 1: poetic themes, and I think the first thing I remember

1621
01:46:52,720 --> 01:47:00,280
Speaker 1: writing was I was going up to the uptown on

1622
01:47:00,280 --> 01:47:06,799
Speaker 1: on the street car goes up St. Charles Uptown towards uh.

1623
01:47:07,120 --> 01:47:11,760
Speaker 1: I think it's two lane University up there, and I

1624
01:47:11,840 --> 01:47:14,360
Speaker 1: was riding on the car and it was raining outside,

1625
01:47:14,600 --> 01:47:16,759
Speaker 1: and I had a piece of paper and I always

1626
01:47:16,800 --> 01:47:19,639
Speaker 1: used to carry a pad and paper around within those days.

1627
01:47:19,720 --> 01:47:22,559
Speaker 1: I wrote, if it rains, I don't care, don't make

1628
01:47:22,600 --> 01:47:24,759
Speaker 1: no difference to me. I'll take I'm taking that street

1629
01:47:24,760 --> 01:47:28,240
Speaker 1: car that's going uptown And that was the beginning of

1630
01:47:28,280 --> 01:47:30,920
Speaker 1: the song. That's kind of how it started. And I

1631
01:47:30,960 --> 01:47:32,840
Speaker 1: got to the laundry mat I was going uptown to

1632
01:47:32,880 --> 01:47:38,400
Speaker 1: do my laundry, and uh, I started continuing to write

1633
01:47:38,439 --> 01:47:42,120
Speaker 1: stuff and and wrote some more images. And you know,

1634
01:47:42,240 --> 01:47:46,240
Speaker 1: I always loved you know, Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn

1635
01:47:46,320 --> 01:47:50,439
Speaker 1: and the books. And I wrote something about, you know,

1636
01:47:50,800 --> 01:47:55,360
Speaker 1: building a raft and and you know, floating on the Mississippian.

1637
01:47:55,479 --> 01:47:58,200
Speaker 1: And I had heard the term black water somewhere and

1638
01:47:58,240 --> 01:48:02,880
Speaker 1: it really was really in regards to the Mississippi River

1639
01:48:03,120 --> 01:48:06,080
Speaker 1: Old black water. And I don't know whether I heard

1640
01:48:06,160 --> 01:48:10,000
Speaker 1: a song or a poem or a story, and so

1641
01:48:10,040 --> 01:48:14,960
Speaker 1: I incorporated that into it as well. And then I

1642
01:48:15,000 --> 01:48:18,759
Speaker 1: wrote the song and came back and put it together

1643
01:48:18,800 --> 01:48:22,120
Speaker 1: in the studio, you know, as as we usually do

1644
01:48:22,160 --> 01:48:24,920
Speaker 1: with things, you know, we kind of either rehearse a

1645
01:48:24,960 --> 01:48:26,800
Speaker 1: little bit and then we go in the studio. And

1646
01:48:27,200 --> 01:48:29,280
Speaker 1: but a lot of it came together in the studios

1647
01:48:29,439 --> 01:48:33,160
Speaker 1: as it as it turned out. Um, but I had

1648
01:48:33,880 --> 01:48:35,880
Speaker 1: I had the lyrics, and I had the melodies, and

1649
01:48:35,960 --> 01:48:38,840
Speaker 1: I had the guitar changes in the chords and so

1650
01:48:38,880 --> 01:48:41,280
Speaker 1: on going in and then it was just a matter

1651
01:48:41,320 --> 01:48:46,599
Speaker 1: of nuance and arrangement these songs. This is almost fifty

1652
01:48:46,680 --> 01:48:49,160
Speaker 1: years ago, and I vividly have a memory of the

1653
01:48:49,200 --> 01:48:52,479
Speaker 1: song was living in Los Angeles and I went to

1654
01:48:52,520 --> 01:48:55,479
Speaker 1: live with these guys because my sister moved where I

1655
01:48:55,520 --> 01:48:57,800
Speaker 1: was living with her and another woman. And I lived

1656
01:48:57,800 --> 01:48:59,800
Speaker 1: with these guys all of three weeks. But we were

1657
01:49:00,000 --> 01:49:04,000
Speaker 1: going up in my car. Blackwater came on and different

1658
01:49:04,000 --> 01:49:05,439
Speaker 1: people in the car. There were three people the car

1659
01:49:05,479 --> 01:49:09,240
Speaker 1: were seeing different parts and it was a good car stereo.

1660
01:49:09,320 --> 01:49:11,479
Speaker 1: You could hear, you know, the left and right. Whose

1661
01:49:11,520 --> 01:49:14,400
Speaker 1: idea was to do all that? I had the idea

1662
01:49:14,720 --> 01:49:21,920
Speaker 1: for singing around like that. I I didn't think it

1663
01:49:21,960 --> 01:49:25,920
Speaker 1: would go into an acapella section, which I which I love,

1664
01:49:26,400 --> 01:49:31,320
Speaker 1: and that was really Ted's idea I had. My concept

1665
01:49:31,479 --> 01:49:34,519
Speaker 1: was it was going to go into a you know,

1666
01:49:35,439 --> 01:49:38,160
Speaker 1: five piece Dixie Land band. So I was going to

1667
01:49:38,280 --> 01:49:43,160
Speaker 1: take the guitars and everything to a clarinet, uh, you know,

1668
01:49:43,600 --> 01:49:48,920
Speaker 1: a trumpet, a tube, a band joe, that kind of thing,

1669
01:49:48,960 --> 01:49:54,760
Speaker 1: and do a traditional dixieland uh kind of an arrangement

1670
01:49:54,880 --> 01:49:59,200
Speaker 1: behind it while singing those vocals. And Ted said, well,

1671
01:49:59,240 --> 01:50:03,519
Speaker 1: that's a it's a cool idea, But do you mind

1672
01:50:03,600 --> 01:50:06,360
Speaker 1: if I if I try some other ideas that I

1673
01:50:06,400 --> 01:50:08,559
Speaker 1: have And I go no, of course not, because by

1674
01:50:08,640 --> 01:50:13,040
Speaker 1: that time we had recognized Ted's it was a brilliant

1675
01:50:13,040 --> 01:50:17,320
Speaker 1: producer and that you know, when Ted said something, listen

1676
01:50:17,400 --> 01:50:19,640
Speaker 1: to what he's saying, because you know, it could be

1677
01:50:19,680 --> 01:50:24,960
Speaker 1: a really good idea. And so um, we decided that

1678
01:50:25,479 --> 01:50:29,280
Speaker 1: it would be better as an acapella thing, and uh,

1679
01:50:30,880 --> 01:50:32,840
Speaker 1: I didn't Again, I didn't think it would break down

1680
01:50:32,880 --> 01:50:36,719
Speaker 1: totally to an acapella because it really I always envisioned

1681
01:50:36,760 --> 01:50:40,880
Speaker 1: at least some rhythm or something going on, and it

1682
01:50:40,920 --> 01:50:45,080
Speaker 1: works perfectly in that and that doing that, it's really

1683
01:50:45,080 --> 01:50:50,000
Speaker 1: that street corner thing that I love. That anyway, And

1684
01:50:50,000 --> 01:50:54,679
Speaker 1: and then Ted brought in um someone to play viola

1685
01:50:54,760 --> 01:50:58,760
Speaker 1: on it, which I thought was Again I wasn't sure

1686
01:50:58,800 --> 01:51:02,960
Speaker 1: about the instrument because you know, violin is something I

1687
01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:06,919
Speaker 1: always was familiar with, but viola that's a little darker.

1688
01:51:06,960 --> 01:51:11,120
Speaker 1: And why why a viola instead of a of a violin?

1689
01:51:11,280 --> 01:51:14,200
Speaker 1: And and is it going to be a Cajun thing

1690
01:51:14,360 --> 01:51:16,000
Speaker 1: or what are you gonna do? Well, it turns out

1691
01:51:16,040 --> 01:51:18,440
Speaker 1: it's really not a Cajun thing. It's really more melodic

1692
01:51:18,560 --> 01:51:23,320
Speaker 1: and totally different. And Ted had been producing this band

1693
01:51:24,080 --> 01:51:29,120
Speaker 1: Chunky Nova and Ernie, so that is no v I

1694
01:51:29,160 --> 01:51:32,840
Speaker 1: can't remember how you pronounce her lasting narvo narvo or

1695
01:51:32,880 --> 01:51:36,840
Speaker 1: something like that, Um playing the viola, and of course

1696
01:51:36,840 --> 01:51:39,000
Speaker 1: when I heard it, I flipped. I thought, oh my god,

1697
01:51:39,120 --> 01:51:43,360
Speaker 1: this is so perfect. This is exactly where it should go,

1698
01:51:43,760 --> 01:51:48,559
Speaker 1: and the right instrument, the right player, every you know,

1699
01:51:48,840 --> 01:51:52,120
Speaker 1: just was like, you know, a dream come true for me. Okay,

1700
01:51:52,160 --> 01:51:55,839
Speaker 1: the next album once again, my favorite song is yours.

1701
01:51:55,920 --> 01:51:57,840
Speaker 1: Not that it was the one on the radio, but

1702
01:51:58,000 --> 01:52:02,880
Speaker 1: well I told you it was Nils fan Dangle. Tell

1703
01:52:02,960 --> 01:52:06,519
Speaker 1: me the story of Niels fan Dango. Oh gosh. Well,

1704
01:52:06,680 --> 01:52:10,679
Speaker 1: I was a huge fan of Jack Caro Whac and

1705
01:52:11,000 --> 01:52:15,639
Speaker 1: all those guys had a presence there in San Jose

1706
01:52:15,760 --> 01:52:18,800
Speaker 1: and the Santa Cruz Mountains with unbeknownst to me, I

1707
01:52:18,840 --> 01:52:22,040
Speaker 1: always thought they were, you know, San Francisco, the the

1708
01:52:22,120 --> 01:52:26,920
Speaker 1: Beat generation. And I learned that Neil Cassidy. In fact,

1709
01:52:27,000 --> 01:52:30,360
Speaker 1: I saw Neil Cassidy at that venue I was talking

1710
01:52:30,400 --> 01:52:34,080
Speaker 1: about with where I went to see Janis Joplin. There

1711
01:52:34,160 --> 01:52:40,439
Speaker 1: was Neo Cassidy walking around with a washing machine and

1712
01:52:40,560 --> 01:52:42,920
Speaker 1: some kind of a tube going to some kind of

1713
01:52:42,960 --> 01:52:48,719
Speaker 1: a gas mask that he had. Just a crazy, crazy artist,

1714
01:52:49,600 --> 01:52:57,040
Speaker 1: you know, nonconformist guy. Um. But as I read those books,

1715
01:52:57,080 --> 01:53:01,439
Speaker 1: I recognize that Neil Cassidy was this really character. Of course,

1716
01:53:01,800 --> 01:53:06,640
Speaker 1: and then later on when I began reading, uh, you

1717
01:53:06,640 --> 01:53:09,519
Speaker 1: know about the electric kool Aid ascid test, and I'm

1718
01:53:09,560 --> 01:53:12,960
Speaker 1: trying to think, I I learned about Neil Cassidy before

1719
01:53:13,000 --> 01:53:18,000
Speaker 1: I even read that book. He was a legend in

1720
01:53:18,800 --> 01:53:22,080
Speaker 1: where I lived around the area there as to being,

1721
01:53:22,520 --> 01:53:25,840
Speaker 1: you know, the just this character, and everybody talked about

1722
01:53:25,880 --> 01:53:28,920
Speaker 1: everybody seemed all of my a lot of musician friends

1723
01:53:28,960 --> 01:53:32,439
Speaker 1: and people in the literary community, they all knew Neil.

1724
01:53:32,640 --> 01:53:36,759
Speaker 1: I never knew him, although I saw him the one time,

1725
01:53:36,800 --> 01:53:41,120
Speaker 1: but everybody had a story about Neil Cassidy. You know,

1726
01:53:42,400 --> 01:53:49,520
Speaker 1: he talks a mile a minute. He juggles uh uh hammers.

1727
01:53:49,600 --> 01:53:55,639
Speaker 1: You know what do you call it? Huge? Uh? My

1728
01:53:55,680 --> 01:54:00,920
Speaker 1: mind's are blank, but you know, sledge hammers. He juggled sledgehammers.

1729
01:54:00,920 --> 01:54:05,760
Speaker 1: I'm trying to visualize this guy. He takes more speed

1730
01:54:06,200 --> 01:54:09,679
Speaker 1: than anybody and stays up for a week and then

1731
01:54:10,120 --> 01:54:12,519
Speaker 1: he sleeps for a week. And he could take more

1732
01:54:12,600 --> 01:54:15,240
Speaker 1: or less d than anyone and drive a bus. And

1733
01:54:15,280 --> 01:54:20,840
Speaker 1: I was just like, what is superhuman? Crazy artist? You

1734
01:54:20,880 --> 01:54:26,360
Speaker 1: know what is this? And so um, I'm living in

1735
01:54:26,439 --> 01:54:30,920
Speaker 1: Las Gatis and I'm I'm at a club and I

1736
01:54:31,000 --> 01:54:32,840
Speaker 1: have a friend that plays in a band, and I

1737
01:54:32,880 --> 01:54:36,720
Speaker 1: go to see this band and and I hear and

1738
01:54:36,760 --> 01:54:38,440
Speaker 1: I hear the band, I go, well, these guys are

1739
01:54:38,440 --> 01:54:42,120
Speaker 1: pretty good and and I'm sitting there and uh, after

1740
01:54:42,200 --> 01:54:44,720
Speaker 1: they took a break, this guy walks out of the

1741
01:54:44,720 --> 01:54:47,600
Speaker 1: band who was playing the guitar in the band. He goes, uh, hi,

1742
01:54:48,520 --> 01:54:52,760
Speaker 1: you don't know me. My name is John Cassidy, you know,

1743
01:54:53,720 --> 01:54:58,280
Speaker 1: and uh you might know my dad, Neil. And I

1744
01:54:58,400 --> 01:55:02,960
Speaker 1: and uh so, I'm so I'm meeting Neil's son John.

1745
01:55:03,120 --> 01:55:08,400
Speaker 1: You can be becoming good friends. And and he goes,

1746
01:55:08,920 --> 01:55:11,520
Speaker 1: you need to meet my mom, you know, Caroline, you

1747
01:55:11,600 --> 01:55:13,960
Speaker 1: need to meet my mom. So at some point. And

1748
01:55:14,120 --> 01:55:20,280
Speaker 1: my my girlfriend's brother Bill, he's an author, he wrote

1749
01:55:20,280 --> 01:55:22,640
Speaker 1: an author. He wrote a book called be Nut Content.

1750
01:55:23,520 --> 01:55:29,160
Speaker 1: And he's a friend of Ken Ken Kesey. And so

1751
01:55:29,640 --> 01:55:37,120
Speaker 1: there's this just you know, serendipity about you know, Neil Cassidy. So, um,

1752
01:55:37,160 --> 01:55:39,600
Speaker 1: I have this riff and this is one of those

1753
01:55:39,640 --> 01:55:44,040
Speaker 1: instances where I'm having this song, this you know, musical

1754
01:55:44,160 --> 01:55:47,520
Speaker 1: thing that I'm thinking, you know, I want to write

1755
01:55:47,840 --> 01:55:50,200
Speaker 1: something like the Almond brothers. You know, I want to

1756
01:55:50,200 --> 01:55:54,680
Speaker 1: write something with rhythm and fast and you know, bluesy

1757
01:55:54,960 --> 01:55:58,800
Speaker 1: and and stuff and so uh then I started thinking

1758
01:55:58,800 --> 01:56:02,720
Speaker 1: about Neil. And the song is fast, but it gets

1759
01:56:02,760 --> 01:56:07,080
Speaker 1: faster one of the great things about it. And I'm thinking,

1760
01:56:07,920 --> 01:56:11,520
Speaker 1: this reminds me of Neil Cassikia and so I think,

1761
01:56:11,560 --> 01:56:14,640
Speaker 1: I gotta, I gotta write a song with Neil and

1762
01:56:14,720 --> 01:56:18,040
Speaker 1: it it's really not about Neil. It's really about about me,

1763
01:56:18,640 --> 01:56:21,680
Speaker 1: about my experience, but he is part of He is

1764
01:56:21,920 --> 01:56:26,280
Speaker 1: part of my experience. So um, and I find out

1765
01:56:26,320 --> 01:56:28,680
Speaker 1: he lived up in the Santa Cruz Mountains where I lived,

1766
01:56:28,840 --> 01:56:31,320
Speaker 1: and not far from where I lived, and and John

1767
01:56:31,360 --> 01:56:33,520
Speaker 1: and I were talking, you know, and he's telling me

1768
01:56:33,600 --> 01:56:36,840
Speaker 1: things about him, and then I'm reading about, you know,

1769
01:56:36,880 --> 01:56:39,320
Speaker 1: where he lived in Las Gados and how he lived

1770
01:56:39,720 --> 01:56:42,640
Speaker 1: in the Santa Cruz Mountains and what he did and

1771
01:56:42,640 --> 01:56:46,240
Speaker 1: and and it all kind of came together as a

1772
01:56:46,240 --> 01:56:49,919
Speaker 1: as a little tribute, if you're will, to Neil Cassidy.

1773
01:56:50,080 --> 01:56:53,600
Speaker 1: So it's it's about both of us. It's about my

1774
01:56:53,720 --> 01:56:56,560
Speaker 1: love for that area and and I know he loved

1775
01:56:56,560 --> 01:56:59,640
Speaker 1: that area. He he ended up coming back again and

1776
01:56:59,680 --> 01:57:03,000
Speaker 1: again to last get us Okay, the line going back

1777
01:57:03,040 --> 01:57:06,360
Speaker 1: to my mountain, the home Loma Creata. Was that your

1778
01:57:06,400 --> 01:57:10,240
Speaker 1: life or his both? I think, you know, Loma Priata

1779
01:57:10,280 --> 01:57:13,040
Speaker 1: is the like, like the highest peak there in the

1780
01:57:13,080 --> 01:57:16,160
Speaker 1: Santa Cruz Mountains. I think there's a you know, some

1781
01:57:16,240 --> 01:57:22,840
Speaker 1: kind of defense Department of Defense thing up on top

1782
01:57:22,880 --> 01:57:27,960
Speaker 1: of the mountain, you know. But Loma Priata is kind

1783
01:57:28,000 --> 01:57:32,080
Speaker 1: of a part of the Santa Cruz Mountains that you know,

1784
01:57:32,120 --> 01:57:34,360
Speaker 1: a lot of people refer to as thea. It's up

1785
01:57:34,400 --> 01:57:39,120
Speaker 1: near Loma Prieta. There's a road Lama Priata. There was

1786
01:57:39,160 --> 01:57:42,400
Speaker 1: a train station in Loma Priata and the eighteen hundreds.

1787
01:57:42,400 --> 01:57:45,000
Speaker 1: You know, it's just kind of an iconic part of

1788
01:57:45,040 --> 01:57:49,720
Speaker 1: that area. So you know, I lived near there and

1789
01:57:49,960 --> 01:57:52,800
Speaker 1: and Neo Cassidy lived there at one time as well,

1790
01:57:52,920 --> 01:57:56,920
Speaker 1: near there, so uh so we both ended up going back.

1791
01:57:57,600 --> 01:58:00,960
Speaker 1: So okay, needless to say, Tom get it's sick. Michael

1792
01:58:01,040 --> 01:58:03,120
Speaker 1: McDonald comes in, You make a couple of oubs. I

1793
01:58:03,160 --> 01:58:06,640
Speaker 1: remember buying that album to Drive Cross Country Taken to

1794
01:58:06,720 --> 01:58:09,040
Speaker 1: the to the Streets and just being shocked like it

1795
01:58:09,080 --> 01:58:13,280
Speaker 1: was a different band that had some success than the

1796
01:58:13,960 --> 01:58:17,360
Speaker 1: Living on a Fall line. Did Minute Pie Minute comes out?

1797
01:58:18,040 --> 01:58:21,280
Speaker 1: And it's it's almost more successful than The Captain and me.

1798
01:58:21,560 --> 01:58:24,040
Speaker 1: Did you have any idea that that album was going

1799
01:58:24,080 --> 01:58:28,320
Speaker 1: to break through that way? Not at all. No, U. Yeah,

1800
01:58:28,400 --> 01:58:32,800
Speaker 1: you always hope that the records are going to do well. Um.

1801
01:58:33,040 --> 01:58:38,160
Speaker 1: I I love the songs on the record, although you know,

1802
01:58:38,200 --> 01:58:42,040
Speaker 1: there was a lot of tension probably making the record,

1803
01:58:42,160 --> 01:58:49,120
Speaker 1: and I know for a fact that Mike felt very

1804
01:58:50,440 --> 01:58:55,760
Speaker 1: um ambivalent about about the record itself. You know, he

1805
01:58:55,800 --> 01:59:00,280
Speaker 1: didn't feel that he'd achieved at the time. Mean, we

1806
01:59:00,600 --> 01:59:04,480
Speaker 1: talked about it openly, that he he was achieving the

1807
01:59:06,680 --> 01:59:09,520
Speaker 1: music that he had set out to, you know, or

1808
01:59:10,520 --> 01:59:12,840
Speaker 1: not that he had set out, but he didn't feel

1809
01:59:12,880 --> 01:59:15,200
Speaker 1: that he had risen to the occasion as much as

1810
01:59:15,360 --> 01:59:19,640
Speaker 1: as he hoped. And I can't. I kept tell him that, Mike,

1811
01:59:19,680 --> 01:59:23,240
Speaker 1: you know, it's brilliant. You know, the songs are great.

1812
01:59:23,400 --> 01:59:25,520
Speaker 1: You did a great job. You're saying you're butt off.

1813
01:59:26,640 --> 01:59:29,120
Speaker 1: Really you have nothing to be worried about with this.

1814
01:59:29,280 --> 01:59:32,120
Speaker 1: I I go, you know, and I think there was

1815
01:59:32,160 --> 01:59:37,000
Speaker 1: a little um insecurity in terms of you know, we

1816
01:59:37,040 --> 01:59:40,440
Speaker 1: had had this success with taking to the streets. Living

1817
01:59:40,480 --> 01:59:44,200
Speaker 1: on the fault Line is arguably probably our least successful

1818
01:59:44,240 --> 01:59:48,600
Speaker 1: record beyond our very first album. Although it's one of

1819
01:59:48,640 --> 01:59:56,200
Speaker 1: my favorite records, it's such an obtuse uh musical venture,

1820
01:59:56,400 --> 01:59:59,520
Speaker 1: you know. Really it's nothing like being we ever did

1821
01:59:59,560 --> 02:00:03,480
Speaker 1: before or after it, although there are you know, songs

1822
02:00:03,560 --> 02:00:08,160
Speaker 1: that certainly fit within our you know, scope of creativity.

1823
02:00:08,200 --> 02:00:14,800
Speaker 1: But it was crazy, you know, experimental record. We did

1824
02:00:14,800 --> 02:00:18,880
Speaker 1: a lot of experimenting. But minute by minute I I

1825
02:00:18,920 --> 02:00:22,200
Speaker 1: thought it was a great record, and particularly I felt

1826
02:00:22,320 --> 02:00:28,120
Speaker 1: Mike's songs were of it had risen to another level.

1827
02:00:28,320 --> 02:00:33,400
Speaker 1: You know, I just you know, it was very mature

1828
02:00:34,120 --> 02:00:37,680
Speaker 1: on his part, you know, with a song like minute

1829
02:00:37,720 --> 02:00:42,960
Speaker 1: by Minute, I just felt like, um, with that interesting opening,

1830
02:00:43,440 --> 02:00:50,960
Speaker 1: and that it was really bluesy, the kind of music

1831
02:00:51,040 --> 02:00:55,720
Speaker 1: that you know, we sort of are known for. He's

1832
02:00:55,760 --> 02:00:58,760
Speaker 1: singing the blues on that record, and but it was

1833
02:00:58,800 --> 02:01:04,200
Speaker 1: a little more jazzy, which I at that point in

1834
02:01:05,240 --> 02:01:08,760
Speaker 1: my presence in the band, I was kind of shooting

1835
02:01:08,800 --> 02:01:11,600
Speaker 1: for a little bit more. You know. We certainly did

1836
02:01:11,640 --> 02:01:14,840
Speaker 1: some rock and country and all kinds of things, but

1837
02:01:15,560 --> 02:01:18,200
Speaker 1: I love the kind of jazz tinge things that we

1838
02:01:18,200 --> 02:01:22,880
Speaker 1: were doing at the time. I'm kind of a you know,

1839
02:01:23,120 --> 02:01:26,240
Speaker 1: if not a great jazz player at least a real

1840
02:01:26,360 --> 02:01:30,920
Speaker 1: jazz fan. So I liked that we were experimenting in

1841
02:01:30,920 --> 02:01:33,560
Speaker 1: that direction, and I felt on that record we were

1842
02:01:33,600 --> 02:01:36,800
Speaker 1: doing that. At the same time, I felt a song

1843
02:01:36,960 --> 02:01:41,600
Speaker 1: like What a Fool Believes was just a great uh

1844
02:01:41,800 --> 02:01:45,560
Speaker 1: contemporary pop kind of a of a song that that

1845
02:01:45,800 --> 02:01:52,640
Speaker 1: still had a legitimacy as a musical uh presentation. I thought,

1846
02:01:52,680 --> 02:01:59,320
Speaker 1: you know, it was really some serious chord structure and

1847
02:01:59,520 --> 02:02:05,600
Speaker 1: rhythmic properties there and just great. We all participated, we

1848
02:02:05,680 --> 02:02:09,360
Speaker 1: all saying we all you know, did our usual contributions,

1849
02:02:09,560 --> 02:02:12,880
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, it was meaningful for me as

1850
02:02:13,000 --> 02:02:16,280
Speaker 1: a as a part of that, you know. And what

1851
02:02:16,640 --> 02:02:19,760
Speaker 1: where There are songs on records that I never even

1852
02:02:19,800 --> 02:02:25,360
Speaker 1: played on, and some that I never sang on, not many,

1853
02:02:25,480 --> 02:02:29,200
Speaker 1: but some, and you always feel a little left out,

1854
02:02:29,360 --> 02:02:32,480
Speaker 1: you know. But on on that record, you know, we've

1855
02:02:32,480 --> 02:02:36,480
Speaker 1: all participated, and you know we were we were here

1856
02:02:36,520 --> 02:02:38,880
Speaker 1: and there and everywhere, and I like that. I love

1857
02:02:39,400 --> 02:02:42,720
Speaker 1: that opportunity, and it's it just makes you feel part

1858
02:02:42,720 --> 02:02:46,600
Speaker 1: of the part of the whole. And but but I

1859
02:02:46,640 --> 02:02:49,360
Speaker 1: love the album, you know, as as much as as

1860
02:02:49,520 --> 02:02:54,120
Speaker 1: as is insecure as we were about it, I really

1861
02:02:54,120 --> 02:02:57,840
Speaker 1: liked the record. Okay, let's talk about something really important. Okay,

1862
02:02:57,880 --> 02:03:00,920
Speaker 1: you make that album, you make the sub to Queen album,

1863
02:03:01,000 --> 02:03:04,880
Speaker 1: You cut your hair. You were legendary for your long year.

1864
02:03:04,960 --> 02:03:08,240
Speaker 1: You cut your hair and then eventually you grew it back.

1865
02:03:08,720 --> 02:03:11,200
Speaker 1: What's going on there? Well, you know I hadn't cut

1866
02:03:11,200 --> 02:03:17,160
Speaker 1: my hair in like forever, and so, um, I thought, well,

1867
02:03:17,240 --> 02:03:23,360
Speaker 1: now that we're firmly established, maybe I can change something

1868
02:03:23,640 --> 02:03:27,760
Speaker 1: and it'll be uh something to talk about. You know,

1869
02:03:28,400 --> 02:03:32,200
Speaker 1: we're always We had a great publicist at that time,

1870
02:03:32,320 --> 02:03:34,840
Speaker 1: David Guest. I don't know if you're familiar with David.

1871
02:03:35,160 --> 02:03:38,240
Speaker 1: David Guests who married Lizamanel. Yeah, I wish he was

1872
02:03:38,280 --> 02:03:40,520
Speaker 1: still around for you to do an interview with him,

1873
02:03:40,560 --> 02:03:45,600
Speaker 1: because it would be a real something special. But he

1874
02:03:45,720 --> 02:03:52,040
Speaker 1: was just a madman. But you know, just cutting my

1875
02:03:52,120 --> 02:03:55,680
Speaker 1: hair was something he could use to to make publicity

1876
02:03:55,680 --> 02:03:58,480
Speaker 1: out of. So you know, that was a good something

1877
02:03:58,520 --> 02:04:01,200
Speaker 1: to do, and then you know, it's just something to try.

1878
02:04:02,240 --> 02:04:05,840
Speaker 1: At that time, I think it was the beginning of um,

1879
02:04:05,880 --> 02:04:08,360
Speaker 1: you know, kind of alternative music too. You know, there

1880
02:04:08,440 --> 02:04:12,440
Speaker 1: was especially where I lived. I was living in the

1881
02:04:12,440 --> 02:04:15,240
Speaker 1: Santa Cruz area at that time, and there were a

1882
02:04:15,280 --> 02:04:18,480
Speaker 1: lot of uh, you know, sort of punk bands going

1883
02:04:18,520 --> 02:04:21,720
Speaker 1: on and stuff, and I sort of went, well, these

1884
02:04:22,040 --> 02:04:24,320
Speaker 1: these guys are my friends. You know, I want to

1885
02:04:24,360 --> 02:04:27,200
Speaker 1: be I want to be a punk too. So I

1886
02:04:27,240 --> 02:04:30,640
Speaker 1: always was a punk anyway, but um so that was

1887
02:04:30,720 --> 02:04:33,400
Speaker 1: part of it, you know, just kind of wanting to

1888
02:04:33,520 --> 02:04:36,160
Speaker 1: do something different. And then once I had done it,

1889
02:04:36,200 --> 02:04:39,000
Speaker 1: I realized, oh, jeez, you know, I got a comb

1890
02:04:39,280 --> 02:04:42,960
Speaker 1: combe this stuff, this hair, and so then I thought,

1891
02:04:43,280 --> 02:04:45,960
Speaker 1: you know it, some was so much easier having a

1892
02:04:45,960 --> 02:04:47,640
Speaker 1: longer hair. All I had to do is brush it,

1893
02:04:47,840 --> 02:04:50,840
Speaker 1: and uh, I have to you know, jel it or

1894
02:04:50,880 --> 02:04:53,560
Speaker 1: you know, do anything to it. So I kind of,

1895
02:04:53,600 --> 02:04:57,200
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm you know, I'm really I'm really

1896
02:04:57,200 --> 02:05:01,440
Speaker 1: not a punk. I'm a hippie. So okay, So you

1897
02:05:01,480 --> 02:05:05,440
Speaker 1: have this tour with Michael McDonald and Tom and then

1898
02:05:05,560 --> 02:05:10,720
Speaker 1: COVID happened. Presently you're doing a residency in Vegas. Is

1899
02:05:10,760 --> 02:05:14,680
Speaker 1: it a matter of satiating the fans or as long

1900
02:05:14,720 --> 02:05:17,040
Speaker 1: as you can sell tickets, Mike will go out with you.

1901
02:05:17,960 --> 02:05:20,280
Speaker 1: Or is there no plan or is this a one

1902
02:05:20,360 --> 02:05:23,120
Speaker 1: time deal? What's going on? I don't think there's any plan.

1903
02:05:23,960 --> 02:05:27,400
Speaker 1: I had mentioned Mike years and years ago, I said,

1904
02:05:27,400 --> 02:05:30,560
Speaker 1: you know, would you ever want to come and do

1905
02:05:30,600 --> 02:05:33,760
Speaker 1: a tour with us? Because I think it would be

1906
02:05:34,120 --> 02:05:37,840
Speaker 1: just a great thing for for our audiences. You know,

1907
02:05:37,920 --> 02:05:41,120
Speaker 1: when we're doing gigs, you know, fans come up to

1908
02:05:41,200 --> 02:05:43,280
Speaker 1: gonna Have you talked to Mike lately as Mike can

1909
02:05:43,320 --> 02:05:45,000
Speaker 1: ever come back and play with you guys? And I go,

1910
02:05:45,840 --> 02:05:48,600
Speaker 1: he does, you know, gigs with us once in a while,

1911
02:05:48,680 --> 02:05:51,240
Speaker 1: or or we're playing somewhere and he's around, he comes

1912
02:05:51,280 --> 02:05:53,680
Speaker 1: and sits in. But I don't know, I don't know

1913
02:05:53,680 --> 02:05:56,960
Speaker 1: if that will ever happen, you know, because Mike likes

1914
02:05:56,720 --> 02:06:00,120
Speaker 1: the way it the way he does it. And so

1915
02:06:00,200 --> 02:06:02,120
Speaker 1: I mentioned to him one time he had he was

1916
02:06:02,160 --> 02:06:04,840
Speaker 1: living in uh he had bought a place over in

1917
02:06:04,920 --> 02:06:07,839
Speaker 1: Maui and we hung out there, used to go surfing

1918
02:06:08,680 --> 02:06:12,080
Speaker 1: once in a while, and I said, you know, would

1919
02:06:12,080 --> 02:06:14,320
Speaker 1: you ever feel like coming and doing some kicks with

1920
02:06:14,400 --> 02:06:16,840
Speaker 1: us and do a tour? I have to do a

1921
02:06:16,840 --> 02:06:18,760
Speaker 1: big tour, you know, just something to go out and

1922
02:06:19,240 --> 02:06:22,600
Speaker 1: do a few dates and the fans would flip and

1923
02:06:22,760 --> 02:06:24,520
Speaker 1: he goes, no, I'd love to do that. You should,

1924
02:06:24,720 --> 02:06:28,920
Speaker 1: We should do something like that. And so we kind

1925
02:06:28,920 --> 02:06:32,560
Speaker 1: of never did it, you know, we just kind of decided,

1926
02:06:32,560 --> 02:06:34,240
Speaker 1: and every once in a while I'd see, might go

1927
02:06:34,560 --> 02:06:36,800
Speaker 1: still up for coming and doing some gigs with us? Yeah,

1928
02:06:36,920 --> 02:06:39,360
Speaker 1: just let me know whenever, you know. And so finally

1929
02:06:39,440 --> 02:06:42,000
Speaker 1: I went to the guys. I said, you know, Mike

1930
02:06:42,400 --> 02:06:44,920
Speaker 1: keeps telling me come out and do some gigs with us.

1931
02:06:45,000 --> 02:06:47,200
Speaker 1: Would that be something that would be cool with you guys?

1932
02:06:47,240 --> 02:06:51,400
Speaker 1: And John and Tom said yeah, sure, you know, ask him,

1933
02:06:51,480 --> 02:06:53,360
Speaker 1: you know when when you'd like to do that. And

1934
02:06:54,160 --> 02:06:56,040
Speaker 1: so that's kind of how it came about. It was

1935
02:06:56,080 --> 02:06:59,360
Speaker 1: really informal, and and then we just we knew it

1936
02:06:59,360 --> 02:07:02,480
Speaker 1: would be, you know, something cool that people would really like.

1937
02:07:02,680 --> 02:07:06,600
Speaker 1: And so at that point, we know the pandemic hit,

1938
02:07:06,840 --> 02:07:10,000
Speaker 1: and I think we kind of that we're on the

1939
02:07:10,040 --> 02:07:13,440
Speaker 1: cusp of doing it in the pandemic hit, and we said, well,

1940
02:07:13,520 --> 02:07:17,600
Speaker 1: you know, we have to postpone it, and so we did.

1941
02:07:17,640 --> 02:07:20,640
Speaker 1: We postponed it, and then as we postponed it, you

1942
02:07:20,680 --> 02:07:22,760
Speaker 1: know more, we kept getting more and more offers people,

1943
02:07:22,880 --> 02:07:24,720
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you gotta come here, you gotta come and

1944
02:07:24,760 --> 02:07:27,280
Speaker 1: play it. You guys should come and play there. So

1945
02:07:27,360 --> 02:07:29,360
Speaker 1: we ended up playing, you know, booking a lot of

1946
02:07:29,400 --> 02:07:32,320
Speaker 1: shows and uh, you know, Mikey, sure you want to

1947
02:07:32,320 --> 02:07:35,080
Speaker 1: do this. He says, yeah, this is this is cool.

1948
02:07:35,160 --> 02:07:37,400
Speaker 1: You know, well we'll have a lot of fun, and

1949
02:07:38,080 --> 02:07:41,360
Speaker 1: I don't have to work so hard. You know, it

1950
02:07:41,440 --> 02:07:43,720
Speaker 1: has a lot of work getting out there, you know,

1951
02:07:44,560 --> 02:07:47,600
Speaker 1: shouldering all that, and and Tommy's had to work hard,

1952
02:07:47,680 --> 02:07:50,120
Speaker 1: you know, his shoulders most of the most of the

1953
02:07:50,160 --> 02:07:54,680
Speaker 1: songs for the night. So this has been in some

1954
02:07:54,760 --> 02:07:57,440
Speaker 1: sense a bit you know, we're gonna be older guys.

1955
02:07:57,480 --> 02:08:00,440
Speaker 1: It's nice to have a little bit of cushion, you know,

1956
02:08:01,200 --> 02:08:03,520
Speaker 1: help each other out a little bit so that that

1957
02:08:04,080 --> 02:08:06,720
Speaker 1: you know, it's in some ways a lot of fun

1958
02:08:06,960 --> 02:08:10,320
Speaker 1: in that regard, just because we we can in what

1959
02:08:10,520 --> 02:08:13,600
Speaker 1: we've extended the show. You know, we we actually were

1960
02:08:13,600 --> 02:08:15,560
Speaker 1: playing about a two and a half hour show, almost

1961
02:08:15,600 --> 02:08:19,760
Speaker 1: three hours. We're down here working in Las Vegas. They

1962
02:08:19,760 --> 02:08:21,600
Speaker 1: don't want us to play that long. They want people

1963
02:08:21,600 --> 02:08:25,680
Speaker 1: to get back out on the slot machines. But we're

1964
02:08:25,680 --> 02:08:27,920
Speaker 1: still playing an hour, a little more than an hour,

1965
02:08:28,080 --> 02:08:30,520
Speaker 1: or I'm sorry, a little more than two hours here.

1966
02:08:31,840 --> 02:08:33,880
Speaker 1: But it's a good show. We get to do all

1967
02:08:33,920 --> 02:08:37,240
Speaker 1: the songs that all the hits that people you know

1968
02:08:37,320 --> 02:08:39,480
Speaker 1: that they got to hear the hits, and and then

1969
02:08:39,520 --> 02:08:41,600
Speaker 1: we sprinkle in a few of the songs that you know,

1970
02:08:41,640 --> 02:08:44,680
Speaker 1: we enjoyed playing and some deep cuts and stuff, some

1971
02:08:44,680 --> 02:08:48,800
Speaker 1: stuff we've never played ever. And then, uh, we have

1972
02:08:48,880 --> 02:08:52,160
Speaker 1: this new album out that we put out and it

1973
02:08:52,280 --> 02:08:57,360
Speaker 1: was October of last I think was October October. Yeah,

1974
02:08:57,680 --> 02:08:59,760
Speaker 1: and so we're doing a few songs. We do three

1975
02:09:00,320 --> 02:09:03,280
Speaker 1: from from the new album. So that's that's really a

1976
02:09:03,360 --> 02:09:05,960
Speaker 1: treat for us to do some new music as well.

1977
02:09:06,040 --> 02:09:09,680
Speaker 1: So we're really, uh, I mean, we're having the time

1978
02:09:09,720 --> 02:09:12,520
Speaker 1: of our lives. You know. It's never would have thought

1979
02:09:12,640 --> 02:09:17,440
Speaker 1: in a million years, fifty years from more than fifty

1980
02:09:17,520 --> 02:09:19,320
Speaker 1: years from the time we put it together, that we'd

1981
02:09:19,320 --> 02:09:22,480
Speaker 1: still be out here doing it and having the fun

1982
02:09:22,560 --> 02:09:26,839
Speaker 1: we're having being able to And I gotta say again

1983
02:09:26,920 --> 02:09:29,720
Speaker 1: for me that it's it's all selfish. You know. I

1984
02:09:29,760 --> 02:09:35,640
Speaker 1: get to play with great musicians, singing and playing songs

1985
02:09:35,680 --> 02:09:40,640
Speaker 1: that are you know, iconic in in uh the American

1986
02:09:40,800 --> 02:09:44,360
Speaker 1: soundscape these days. You know, I mean we never never, again,

1987
02:09:44,400 --> 02:09:46,880
Speaker 1: I never really would have thought that we would have

1988
02:09:46,960 --> 02:09:50,040
Speaker 1: ever made this kind of musical impact as as a band.

1989
02:09:50,720 --> 02:09:53,080
Speaker 1: And uh, to be able to be a part of that,

1990
02:09:53,200 --> 02:09:55,360
Speaker 1: and to me, it's like a you know, it's a

1991
02:09:55,360 --> 02:09:59,720
Speaker 1: gift for me personally. I get to do work in

1992
02:09:59,760 --> 02:10:05,240
Speaker 1: this dream band with these fabulous musicians, and our music

1993
02:10:05,520 --> 02:10:09,880
Speaker 1: is certainly popular music, but it's it's much more complicated,

1994
02:10:09,880 --> 02:10:13,480
Speaker 1: I think than the average songs that are that are

1995
02:10:13,560 --> 02:10:16,560
Speaker 1: out there on the radio or that have been um

1996
02:10:17,640 --> 02:10:20,800
Speaker 1: and and you know there are certainly there are other bands,

1997
02:10:21,120 --> 02:10:26,880
Speaker 1: yes Kansas, you know STEVEE. Dan that write music that

1998
02:10:27,080 --> 02:10:34,520
Speaker 1: is equally interesting and complicated. But I love the fact

1999
02:10:34,560 --> 02:10:38,680
Speaker 1: that the music is challenging and even after playing songs

2000
02:10:38,680 --> 02:10:41,000
Speaker 1: for years and years, I still have to think about

2001
02:10:41,040 --> 02:10:47,960
Speaker 1: what I'm doing and that really makes for a great

2002
02:10:49,280 --> 02:10:51,920
Speaker 1: enjoyment for me every night. I don't you don't go

2003
02:10:51,960 --> 02:10:54,280
Speaker 1: out there just taking over. Oh I know this stuff

2004
02:10:54,320 --> 02:10:56,400
Speaker 1: so well. I have to worry about it. You know.

2005
02:10:56,480 --> 02:11:00,400
Speaker 1: The intricacies of the music are such that you can

2006
02:11:00,440 --> 02:11:04,440
Speaker 1: play a thousand times and still it's it's challenging. If

2007
02:11:04,440 --> 02:11:07,360
Speaker 1: you're not paying attention, you're going to screw up. And

2008
02:11:07,440 --> 02:11:12,040
Speaker 1: so uh, you know, I'm always deep into it, every song,

2009
02:11:12,320 --> 02:11:15,760
Speaker 1: every everything, all night long. It's just it's it's a

2010
02:11:15,800 --> 02:11:19,440
Speaker 1: good thing for you know, keeping your brain active. You know,

2011
02:11:19,680 --> 02:11:24,440
Speaker 1: as as you get older, I'm still always thinking. Another

2012
02:11:24,560 --> 02:11:28,040
Speaker 1: question though, this is very significant in the Doobies career,

2013
02:11:28,840 --> 02:11:31,920
Speaker 1: is you had this manager, Bruce Cone. He had a

2014
02:11:32,040 --> 02:11:34,600
Speaker 1: very high profile and a lot of managers do not

2015
02:11:35,160 --> 02:11:37,840
Speaker 1: so that people in the who are just fans are

2016
02:11:37,840 --> 02:11:40,600
Speaker 1: aware of him. He's part of the legacy in terms

2017
02:11:40,600 --> 02:11:44,400
Speaker 1: of bringing the band back together for charity things. You

2018
02:11:44,680 --> 02:11:49,080
Speaker 1: ultimately switch to irving A's Loss operation, and in addition,

2019
02:11:49,120 --> 02:11:53,080
Speaker 1: in the book, Bruce is really not mentioned. How did

2020
02:11:53,120 --> 02:11:57,360
Speaker 1: you decide to switch managers and what is the difference

2021
02:11:57,440 --> 02:12:00,320
Speaker 1: with the new managers opposed to the old. Well, you know,

2022
02:12:00,320 --> 02:12:04,520
Speaker 1: I'm not really supposed to disclose, you know, Well, we'll

2023
02:12:04,520 --> 02:12:07,800
Speaker 1: talk about what you can. I'm not trying to you know, yeah,

2024
02:12:07,840 --> 02:12:10,879
Speaker 1: I will because you know, Bruce was a great manager.

2025
02:12:10,920 --> 02:12:12,440
Speaker 1: I think he did a great job for the band.

2026
02:12:12,800 --> 02:12:17,360
Speaker 1: We we had, you know, a lot of success with

2027
02:12:17,360 --> 02:12:21,760
Speaker 1: with Bruce, and you know, he was a great person.

2028
02:12:22,640 --> 02:12:27,840
Speaker 1: Um at a point there was there were some um

2029
02:12:28,600 --> 02:12:34,200
Speaker 1: disagreements and we've found ourselves in a predicament where we

2030
02:12:34,200 --> 02:12:37,760
Speaker 1: we had to make a change and it didn't It

2031
02:12:37,840 --> 02:12:43,400
Speaker 1: wasn't something that I guess I should speak for myself,

2032
02:12:43,440 --> 02:12:47,280
Speaker 1: and it wasn't something that I that I looked forward

2033
02:12:47,320 --> 02:12:53,880
Speaker 1: to at the time. Um, but it was necessary. It

2034
02:12:54,000 --> 02:13:00,200
Speaker 1: was an impast that came about and we we had

2035
02:13:00,240 --> 02:13:08,080
Speaker 1: to make the change. And we I've known Irving really.

2036
02:13:08,080 --> 02:13:15,000
Speaker 1: I met Irving through Mike McDonald. Mike introduced me to

2037
02:13:15,040 --> 02:13:19,840
Speaker 1: Irving gosh over thirty years ago, forty years ago, something

2038
02:13:19,880 --> 02:13:26,320
Speaker 1: like that. And naturally everyone is aware of Irving's abilities

2039
02:13:26,520 --> 02:13:31,120
Speaker 1: and presence in the in the music industry. And when

2040
02:13:31,200 --> 02:13:37,760
Speaker 1: we when we signed with Irving, it was, you know,

2041
02:13:38,080 --> 02:13:46,120
Speaker 1: something that for myself it was like wow, you know,

2042
02:13:46,720 --> 02:13:54,440
Speaker 1: he's like this incredible person, both as as a business

2043
02:13:54,560 --> 02:13:57,160
Speaker 1: entity and as a person in general. He's kind of

2044
02:13:57,200 --> 02:14:05,960
Speaker 1: a guru to me musicians. And we had reached a

2045
02:14:06,080 --> 02:14:12,880
Speaker 1: point in our um in our career with Bruce where

2046
02:14:12,920 --> 02:14:19,680
Speaker 1: we've kind of hitting a stagnant point and I think

2047
02:14:19,960 --> 02:14:24,400
Speaker 1: probably the band was on the verge of just retiring,

2048
02:14:24,680 --> 02:14:31,520
Speaker 1: you know, and um, we we made the break with

2049
02:14:31,640 --> 02:14:35,480
Speaker 1: Bruce before. We didn't go to Irving and say we

2050
02:14:35,560 --> 02:14:39,680
Speaker 1: want to make this break. We made the break earlier

2051
02:14:39,760 --> 02:14:43,120
Speaker 1: on and we kind of managed ourselves for a while

2052
02:14:44,560 --> 02:14:47,720
Speaker 1: because we could. We were you know, had enough knowledge

2053
02:14:47,760 --> 02:14:51,520
Speaker 1: at that point to continue with with what we were doing.

2054
02:14:52,120 --> 02:14:54,880
Speaker 1: And we did that for a while. Uh, and then

2055
02:14:55,000 --> 02:14:57,240
Speaker 1: of course we knew we were we would be out

2056
02:14:57,360 --> 02:15:01,920
Speaker 1: searching for someone to represent, and we spoke to several

2057
02:15:02,360 --> 02:15:05,919
Speaker 1: different a lot of different people before we made the decision.

2058
02:15:06,920 --> 02:15:11,800
Speaker 1: But when we found Irving would be interested, that was

2059
02:15:12,040 --> 02:15:15,120
Speaker 1: we knew that that would be a great place for us.

2060
02:15:15,200 --> 02:15:18,840
Speaker 1: Just for me again, once again, I kind of speak

2061
02:15:18,880 --> 02:15:22,280
Speaker 1: for myself on this. I'm a California guy. That the

2062
02:15:24,680 --> 02:15:30,200
Speaker 1: Irving's business is based in California. UM, I want to

2063
02:15:30,240 --> 02:15:35,920
Speaker 1: stay within that context. You know, I feel like we're

2064
02:15:36,200 --> 02:15:41,640
Speaker 1: a California band and who thinks they're from New Orleans.

2065
02:15:43,800 --> 02:15:48,760
Speaker 1: But you know, so it has been really invigorating for

2066
02:15:48,800 --> 02:15:53,120
Speaker 1: the band to be working with Irving and Kareem Karmi,

2067
02:15:53,320 --> 02:15:58,960
Speaker 1: who is really our day to day uh management. Kareem

2068
02:15:58,960 --> 02:16:06,440
Speaker 1: works for Stop Management, And it's been, you know, I

2069
02:16:06,480 --> 02:16:09,440
Speaker 1: don't know, really a shot in the arm. You know,

2070
02:16:09,520 --> 02:16:15,880
Speaker 1: we're really being more creative, more enthusiastic about what we're doing. UM,

2071
02:16:16,600 --> 02:16:20,720
Speaker 1: having a vision for the future that we kind of

2072
02:16:20,720 --> 02:16:23,680
Speaker 1: had begun to dissipate a little bit. I think we

2073
02:16:23,840 --> 02:16:29,480
Speaker 1: kind of you know, it wasn't that we were it

2074
02:16:29,520 --> 02:16:31,960
Speaker 1: was we were done or anything, but I think we

2075
02:16:32,000 --> 02:16:38,680
Speaker 1: had felt like, well we're going to probably at least yeah,

2076
02:16:38,720 --> 02:16:41,400
Speaker 1: I think we probably might have been done as a band,

2077
02:16:41,959 --> 02:16:44,959
Speaker 1: and we would certainly go on to continuing to be

2078
02:16:45,879 --> 02:16:51,080
Speaker 1: musicians and to write and try to be creative. But um,

2079
02:16:53,120 --> 02:16:56,600
Speaker 1: there it is. That's really where we ended up. Okay,

2080
02:16:56,760 --> 02:17:00,680
Speaker 1: you've been making music professionally for over five two years.

2081
02:17:01,480 --> 02:17:03,880
Speaker 1: You know we had VH one behind the music. The

2082
02:17:04,040 --> 02:17:07,600
Speaker 1: stories are legend of the people being ripped off or

2083
02:17:07,640 --> 02:17:12,199
Speaker 1: blowing all their money signing bad deals. The Doobie Brothers

2084
02:17:12,200 --> 02:17:16,280
Speaker 1: has never been a small group. How have you done

2085
02:17:16,320 --> 02:17:18,959
Speaker 1: financially over the years and where are you at now?

2086
02:17:19,280 --> 02:17:25,280
Speaker 1: I've certainly made some bad decisions financially. Yeah, it kind

2087
02:17:25,280 --> 02:17:28,560
Speaker 1: of comes goes with the territory. I think musicians or

2088
02:17:28,720 --> 02:17:33,280
Speaker 1: musicians first, and and that's our weak point. You know,

2089
02:17:33,480 --> 02:17:37,200
Speaker 1: people can talk you into doing things because they know

2090
02:17:37,320 --> 02:17:42,000
Speaker 1: you're you know, you're you're busy tuning your guitar. But

2091
02:17:42,080 --> 02:17:47,000
Speaker 1: I mean I've signed bad publishing deals, and you know,

2092
02:17:48,920 --> 02:17:56,000
Speaker 1: I've had people who have done nothing and then sued

2093
02:17:56,040 --> 02:17:59,600
Speaker 1: you because they can. And then you have to waste

2094
02:17:59,640 --> 02:18:04,120
Speaker 1: all your time and on something that really if if

2095
02:18:04,280 --> 02:18:07,120
Speaker 1: if you went before a jury or something they would

2096
02:18:07,120 --> 02:18:10,680
Speaker 1: never prevail, but you realized by that time you went

2097
02:18:10,720 --> 02:18:13,120
Speaker 1: to a jury, you'd lose way more money than it

2098
02:18:13,160 --> 02:18:17,880
Speaker 1: took you to get there. So those things happen. I've

2099
02:18:17,879 --> 02:18:20,640
Speaker 1: tried to be conservative in terms of of who I

2100
02:18:20,680 --> 02:18:28,039
Speaker 1: am financially, I don't you know, I don't have private

2101
02:18:28,120 --> 02:18:36,080
Speaker 1: jets and limousines and a lot of expensive jewelry or

2102
02:18:36,200 --> 02:18:41,080
Speaker 1: you know, just you know, bad bad drug habits and stuff.

2103
02:18:41,120 --> 02:18:44,840
Speaker 1: You know, I've tried to be aware of uh, you know,

2104
02:18:45,640 --> 02:18:51,240
Speaker 1: myself and the people around me. Um and I and

2105
02:18:51,320 --> 02:18:54,160
Speaker 1: I haven't been afraid to work, you know, I Uh,

2106
02:18:54,520 --> 02:18:58,360
Speaker 1: we're working. Is is good. It's good for all of us,

2107
02:18:58,400 --> 02:19:01,880
Speaker 1: you know, to continue to to do what we love

2108
02:19:01,920 --> 02:19:04,240
Speaker 1: to do, not take it for granted and just go well,

2109
02:19:04,280 --> 02:19:07,440
Speaker 1: you know that it used to be fun, more fun.

2110
02:19:07,560 --> 02:19:10,280
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I'm not going to subject myself to that.

2111
02:19:10,800 --> 02:19:13,760
Speaker 1: To me, you just hang in there and do it.

2112
02:19:13,840 --> 02:19:17,680
Speaker 1: And uh, you know is that old adage if if

2113
02:19:17,720 --> 02:19:19,840
Speaker 1: you do something you love, it's going to come back

2114
02:19:19,879 --> 02:19:22,119
Speaker 1: to you. And that's that's really the way it's been

2115
02:19:22,200 --> 02:19:25,199
Speaker 1: for me. Uh, financially, you know, I'm not the richest

2116
02:19:25,200 --> 02:19:27,080
Speaker 1: guy out there. I'm not the poorest guy out there.

2117
02:19:27,080 --> 02:19:29,200
Speaker 1: I'm kind of in the middle, and and that's really

2118
02:19:29,200 --> 02:19:32,320
Speaker 1: where I want to be. I don't I don't. I

2119
02:19:32,320 --> 02:19:36,400
Speaker 1: don't have this, you know, I don't have I don't

2120
02:19:36,440 --> 02:19:39,320
Speaker 1: need to make a lot more money. And it's not

2121
02:19:39,360 --> 02:19:41,640
Speaker 1: about making money, you know, if you can survive, and

2122
02:19:42,280 --> 02:19:44,360
Speaker 1: you know, I don't have a lot of debts, thank god,

2123
02:19:45,360 --> 02:19:49,680
Speaker 1: you know, I do own my home. Um, that's really

2124
02:19:49,720 --> 02:19:53,160
Speaker 1: all I want out of life. I have a wonderful family.

2125
02:19:53,240 --> 02:19:59,039
Speaker 1: I have children, I have grandchildren. That's that's those are

2126
02:19:59,080 --> 02:20:03,240
Speaker 1: the real Uh, that's the real wealth, you know, and

2127
02:20:03,360 --> 02:20:09,280
Speaker 1: your health. Having your health is health is wealth. So

2128
02:20:09,920 --> 02:20:12,240
Speaker 1: you know I'm I'm a rich man. Okay, So you

2129
02:20:12,320 --> 02:20:15,480
Speaker 1: mentioned your wife and the motorcycles earlier. Is this have

2130
02:20:15,600 --> 02:20:18,279
Speaker 1: were you married before? Is this your one and only wife?

2131
02:20:18,320 --> 02:20:21,240
Speaker 1: I have had two marriages. My first marriage was to

2132
02:20:22,640 --> 02:20:27,119
Speaker 1: a gal that I spoke about, her brother, Bill Cradock.

2133
02:20:28,320 --> 02:20:34,720
Speaker 1: Diane was my first wife, great wonderful person. Um, and

2134
02:20:35,000 --> 02:20:37,640
Speaker 1: we still, you know, are good friends and stay in touch.

2135
02:20:38,520 --> 02:20:43,560
Speaker 1: I am married to Chris Summer Simmons. We've been married

2136
02:20:43,600 --> 02:20:54,199
Speaker 1: for thirty two years and got three children and three grandchildren,

2137
02:20:54,320 --> 02:21:00,320
Speaker 1: and UM, It's been a a wonderful relationship we've we

2138
02:21:00,400 --> 02:21:05,039
Speaker 1: met through motorcycling. We met that Sturgis, South Dakota, the

2139
02:21:05,160 --> 02:21:11,760
Speaker 1: motorcycle rally there. She came to a fundraiser that we

2140
02:21:11,760 --> 02:21:15,640
Speaker 1: were the Doobies were doing for the Fight against US

2141
02:21:15,800 --> 02:21:22,680
Speaker 1: Muscular Dystrophy that Harley supports and supported then still support.

2142
02:21:23,760 --> 02:21:28,360
Speaker 1: And I was the the chairman of the Biker's Fight

2143
02:21:29,080 --> 02:21:34,160
Speaker 1: Against Muscular Dystrophy and I was given a press conference.

2144
02:21:34,200 --> 02:21:38,440
Speaker 1: The band was there um to play and I was

2145
02:21:38,440 --> 02:21:41,360
Speaker 1: doing a press conference with the head of marketing for

2146
02:21:41,400 --> 02:21:46,119
Speaker 1: Harley Davidson talking about, you know, the concert and our

2147
02:21:46,160 --> 02:21:51,360
Speaker 1: efforts on behalf of the Muscular District Association. And she came.

2148
02:21:52,640 --> 02:21:56,920
Speaker 1: She had a motorcycle magazine called Harley Women, and she

2149
02:21:57,040 --> 02:22:00,200
Speaker 1: and her partner came to cover the press conference for

2150
02:22:00,240 --> 02:22:05,400
Speaker 1: the magazine, and I was introduced to the head of marketing,

2151
02:22:05,480 --> 02:22:14,360
Speaker 1: Clyde Vesseler, and we became friends and have been together

2152
02:22:14,360 --> 02:22:18,039
Speaker 1: ever since. Chris and I we she she We went

2153
02:22:18,040 --> 02:22:22,800
Speaker 1: out to Sturgis that night or the next I was

2154
02:22:22,840 --> 02:22:24,840
Speaker 1: that night. We went out Sturgis to the to the

2155
02:22:24,959 --> 02:22:29,400
Speaker 1: rally and hung out and walked around and bought some

2156
02:22:29,520 --> 02:22:32,400
Speaker 1: t shirts and just got to know each other. And

2157
02:22:32,440 --> 02:22:35,039
Speaker 1: we've been together ever since. It's amazing. So, what's the

2158
02:22:35,120 --> 02:22:38,520
Speaker 1: key to being together when you're on the road, etcetera.

2159
02:22:38,600 --> 02:22:41,320
Speaker 1: You know, the rock and roll road is it has

2160
02:22:41,600 --> 02:22:45,440
Speaker 1: littered with divorces. How do you keep together? She has

2161
02:22:45,520 --> 02:22:49,760
Speaker 1: traveled with me a lot from time to time. When

2162
02:22:49,800 --> 02:22:54,440
Speaker 1: my children were small, they accompanied us on the road.

2163
02:22:54,480 --> 02:22:56,280
Speaker 1: We took them on the road with us on the bus.

2164
02:22:56,600 --> 02:22:58,520
Speaker 1: They all of their bunks. They loved that, you know,

2165
02:22:58,600 --> 02:23:04,920
Speaker 1: camping out with the Doobie brothers on the bus. Um.

2166
02:23:04,959 --> 02:23:11,640
Speaker 1: So that's helped. Um. We share so many common interests

2167
02:23:12,560 --> 02:23:17,480
Speaker 1: and spend a lot of time together all all the time.

2168
02:23:17,480 --> 02:23:20,200
Speaker 1: You know, when we're when I'm not working, we're together

2169
02:23:20,560 --> 02:23:26,640
Speaker 1: when I'm working. She comes, um, and you know, I'm

2170
02:23:26,680 --> 02:23:29,480
Speaker 1: I love that. I mean, we just have a wonderful relationship.

2171
02:23:29,560 --> 02:23:33,240
Speaker 1: It's probably the most important thing in my life really

2172
02:23:33,440 --> 02:23:37,080
Speaker 1: is my marriage and my children. So you say, okay,

2173
02:23:37,120 --> 02:23:40,600
Speaker 1: you're rich because of that. We're rich in information you

2174
02:23:40,720 --> 02:23:43,000
Speaker 1: having taken the time to tell us all these stories

2175
02:23:43,040 --> 02:23:46,360
Speaker 1: in depth. Thanks so much for doing this. Thank you, Bob,

2176
02:23:46,440 --> 02:23:49,960
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I've enjoyed it, spilling my guts.

2177
02:23:51,840 --> 02:23:54,080
Speaker 1: You know the other thing. I'm a huge Doobies fan.

2178
02:23:54,360 --> 02:23:57,879
Speaker 1: You know that I have too good two things Don Handley,

2179
02:23:57,959 --> 02:24:00,640
Speaker 1: the End of the Innocence and the do Be Brothers.

2180
02:24:00,840 --> 02:24:02,680
Speaker 1: When it's like they're just in my head, they just

2181
02:24:02,760 --> 02:24:05,360
Speaker 1: click through. And that's not blowing smoke up your grass either.

2182
02:24:05,879 --> 02:24:09,000
Speaker 1: And on that note, I'll leave it again. Thanks again,

2183
02:24:09,040 --> 02:24:11,920
Speaker 1: pat Hey, thank you, Bat great talking to you. Until

2184
02:24:11,959 --> 02:24:14,160
Speaker 1: next time. This is Bob left Sex