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Speaker 1: A note for listeners, this episode contains discussion of suicide.

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Speaker 1: Please listen with caution and care. In May of two

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Speaker 1: thousand and eight, Ashley and Albert Deblbot welcomed their first baby, girl,

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Speaker 1: Mackenzie Leilani. The Deblebots were a successful military couple stationed

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Speaker 1: in Fort Benning, Georgia, and the birth of their daughter

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Speaker 1: filled them with more joy than they ever imagined. Once

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Speaker 1: they brought baby Mackenzie home from the hospital, the new

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Speaker 1: parents put her to bed and went to sleep. In

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Speaker 1: the early morning hours, Ashley and Albert woke up to

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Speaker 1: find Mackenzie in distress. Concerned, they took her back to

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Speaker 1: the hospital.

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Speaker 2: Maybe a couple hours later. The doctor comes in and

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Speaker 2: tells that she passed, and my ex husban hit the floor.

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Speaker 2: He started crying and screaming, rolling and I just kind

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Speaker 2: of sat there looking at the wall. And then I

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Speaker 2: looked at the doctor and said, go get my baby

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Speaker 2: ready so we can take her home. I think I

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Speaker 2: was just in denial and shop because you just didn't

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Speaker 2: tell me that my daughter was dead. And then Columbus

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Speaker 2: Police Department showed up, and that's when everything pretty much

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Speaker 2: went to hell. My name is Ashley Jordan. I spent

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Speaker 2: twelve years and two months in the Georgia Department of

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Speaker 2: Corrections prison system, wrongfully convicted the requme that I did not.

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Speaker 1: Commit from love of for good. This is wrongful conviction

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Speaker 1: with Maggie Freeling today. Ashley Jordan actually Jordan, was born

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Speaker 1: in Laurel, Mississippi, on May thirteenth, nineteen eighty four, to

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Speaker 1: Brenda Dolores Jones and Thurman Jordan sr.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 2: As they're growing up, let me tell you about the

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Speaker 2: little Poe. That's her nickname, Poe.

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Speaker 1: That's Ashley's mom, Brenda.

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Speaker 2: She was.

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Speaker 3: She was a sweet little girl. Didn't never have to

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Speaker 3: get no whoopings for nothing. She was shad and you

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Speaker 3: know I didn't take.

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Speaker 2: Much of her to feed it.

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Speaker 1: Ashley grew up with three brothers in a military family.

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Speaker 1: After just a few years in Mississippi, Ashley's dad moved

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Speaker 1: their family to Detroit, Michigan. Ashley adored her dad.

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Speaker 2: My dad was very hands on with us. He always

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Speaker 2: made sure we showed love to each other as brothers

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Speaker 2: and sisters. He helped pray with us at night.

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Speaker 1: Ashley's family loved any excuse to get together.

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Speaker 2: Our family is very big and They liked to cook

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Speaker 2: out a lot, so there's a cook out for every

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Speaker 2: We love to get together and eat, So that was

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Speaker 2: one of the fondest memories I have from grown up

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Speaker 2: is being able to get together with our family members

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Speaker 2: and we eat and have a good time.

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Speaker 1: But behind closed doors, family life wasn't as picture perfect

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Speaker 1: as it seemed.

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Speaker 2: My childhood life with my mom and dad married was

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Speaker 2: very I like to call it chaotic. It was just

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Speaker 2: a lot of it was always a lot of arguing

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Speaker 2: going on. My mom was a heavy drinker and my

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Speaker 2: dad wasn't, so a lot of times that was a

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Speaker 2: problem because they bumped heads with a lot of things.

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Speaker 1: Her parents' marriage eventually fell apart, so Ashley's mom packed

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Speaker 1: up and moved with the kids back to their home state.

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Speaker 2: So we moved back to Mississippi in nineteen ninety two.

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Speaker 2: My mom got a job and pretty much just settled

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Speaker 2: us there. I don't think we understood as kids that

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Speaker 2: we were going to be living in in in Mississippi.

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Speaker 2: I believed that we were just going to visit and

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Speaker 2: we were going to make home to Detroit. But we

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Speaker 2: started registering for school. It just kind of came out

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Speaker 2: of nowhere where we had to start over again as kids.

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Speaker 1: Brendo worked hard as a single parent to make ends meet.

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Speaker 1: She and Ashley are close now, but at the time,

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Speaker 1: Ashley wanted to get out of that situation.

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Speaker 2: To be honest with you, I didn't want to save

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Speaker 2: my mom anyway at that time because of her drinking.

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Speaker 2: I just didn't like it. All my other friends, their

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Speaker 2: moms didn't drink like that, So I saw a difference

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Speaker 2: in that pattern. Like I said, she was a great

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Speaker 2: mother when it came to taking care of us, It's

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Speaker 2: just the drinking was very It put a strain on

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Speaker 2: me and our relationship.

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Speaker 1: Early on, Ashley opted to leave her mom's house and

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Speaker 1: instead live with her grandparents. However, things weren't much better.

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Speaker 1: Once she made the move. She started to notice similarities

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Speaker 1: between her grandfather's behal behavior and her mother's.

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Speaker 2: My grandfather, her dad was a heavy drinker, heavy drinker,

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Speaker 2: was putting it lightly. He was an alcoholic. So I've

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Speaker 2: seen the pattern of where my mom where. That filtered

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Speaker 2: on then to her. So in the house of my grandmother,

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Speaker 2: we dealt with a lot of the same chaos.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, she was facing these family troubles.

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Speaker 1: Ashley was also maturing and learning to live her own life.

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Speaker 1: Here's Brenda again.

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Speaker 3: And she grew up and got older. She saw coming

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Speaker 3: out of it and saw a door that she became

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Speaker 3: a cheerleader school stuff like that, played basketball Northeast Jones Tigers.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Lady Tigers.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm, Yeah, she was a basketball player.

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Speaker 2: Cheer leader with those five sixty legs. Yes.

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Speaker 1: Ashley also loved school. She was smart and ambitious. She

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Speaker 1: even had a career picked out for herself, one that

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Speaker 1: she admits was inspired by her own unique smile.

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Speaker 2: You've seen and I have a gap between my teeth,

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Speaker 2: and I've always been very fond of teeth. I like

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Speaker 2: teeth and how they look, and I wanted to be

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Speaker 2: an orthodonosis.

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Speaker 1: But Ashley wound up on a different path. The turning

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Speaker 1: point came one day when she was out shopping with

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Speaker 1: a friend and.

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Speaker 2: We were shopping at a place that was right next

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Speaker 2: door to the recruiting office for the aug of the

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Speaker 2: branches in the military, and it was a recruiter sign

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Speaker 2: outside smoking a cigarette.

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Speaker 1: Ashley was impressed by his uniform. She told him he

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Speaker 1: looked spiffy.

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Speaker 2: And he said, you want one? I said whatever, And

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Speaker 2: before I knew it, I was sitting in his office

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Speaker 2: looking at brochures. In my family, they always encourage you

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Speaker 2: to go to college, go to college, and I thought,

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Speaker 2: you know what, I've just been twelve years in school.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to go to college. He's not right then,

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Speaker 2: and I did.

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Speaker 1: She did want to get a college education eventually, so

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Speaker 1: Ashley was sold on the idea that the military would

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Speaker 1: finance her ambition.

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Speaker 2: And all I can think was pay for college, Pay

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Speaker 2: for college. I didn't tell anybody I was joining got

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Speaker 2: into my mom. I didn't tell anybody. I just kept

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Speaker 2: it a secret.

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Speaker 1: After high school graduation in two thousand and two, Ashley's

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Speaker 1: friends started going off to college.

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Speaker 2: And my mom came to me one day and she said, so,

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Speaker 2: what do you got going on? And I said what

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Speaker 2: do you mean? She said, are you going to school

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Speaker 2: or are you going to start working or something? And

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Speaker 2: I was like, well, I got something else playing. She

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Speaker 2: said like what, Because you haven't said anything to me.

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Speaker 2: I looked up.

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Speaker 3: One day my baby came home.

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Speaker 2: She came home from work, said she was in to

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Speaker 2: join the Earth. I said, oh who.

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Speaker 1: On the day she told Brenda the news Ashley brought

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Speaker 1: an army recruiter to her mom's house to meet and

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Speaker 1: talk about her plans.

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Speaker 2: So he comes walking up the driveway and she looked

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Speaker 2: at me and she just started She was so excited.

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Speaker 2: I said, are you happy, and she said, yes, I'm happy.

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Speaker 2: She said, this is a great career. My mom was

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Speaker 2: the most supportive person I had in my army career.

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Speaker 1: Ashley originally joined as part of the Army Reserve and

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Speaker 1: wound up stationed in South Korea in two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 1: She soon worked her way up to sergeant. Ashley loved

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Speaker 1: the military, and after only three months in South Korea,

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Speaker 1: she was about to find another love. Tell me how

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Speaker 1: you meet Albert.

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Speaker 2: By my first time. I was actually going into my

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Speaker 2: barricks room for the first time, and he walked by

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Speaker 2: and I complimented his calf muscles. He got some nice

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Speaker 2: calf muscles. And he looked at me and was looking

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Speaker 2: at me like, this girl is weird.

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Speaker 1: Albert double Bud was a mail clerk in Ashley's unit.

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Speaker 1: She would often see him around.

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Speaker 2: He was lower ranking and I was high, and so

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Speaker 2: he just kind of kept it professional, going back and

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Speaker 2: forth and beyond every guy at that unit was trying

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Speaker 2: to get my attention to talk to me, but he wasn't,

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Speaker 2: and that kind of intrigued me. So I started to

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Speaker 2: like him and I kind of went after him, and

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Speaker 2: one day I stopped and talked to him, and we

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Speaker 2: started watching DVDs together and we realized we had that

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Speaker 2: we love the same kind of movies and the same

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Speaker 2: kind of music, and that's kind of where the conversation started.

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Speaker 2: And so I knew we were going on our first date.

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Speaker 1: So besides his cabs, what else did you like about him?

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Speaker 2: We weren't dressed. I have this I love the way

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Speaker 2: he dressed, and I realized that he was really nice,

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Speaker 2: like beyond just being a soldier, he was a really

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Speaker 2: nice guy.

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Speaker 1: Theirs was a whirlwind romance, you know.

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Speaker 2: It was kind of quick, but I don't have a

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Speaker 2: time living on love. I'm gonna say that I'm the

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Speaker 2: kind of person that it's there, is there, and I'm

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Speaker 2: going to go for it. So we met, we started

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Speaker 2: dating August two thousand and seven, We got engaged September

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Speaker 2: two thousand and seven, and we got married over in

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Speaker 2: nineteen two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 1: And the couple had more good news while still in Korea.

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Speaker 1: After their engagement, Ashley found out she was pregnant.

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Speaker 2: I threw this pretticages in face. She looks, look look,

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Speaker 2: and he looked at me. He's like, what does this mean?

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Speaker 2: I said, it means we're pregnant. So we were super

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Speaker 2: excited to be having a baby.

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Speaker 1: She and Albert wanted to have their baby in the States,

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Speaker 1: so Ashley was able to get an honorable discharge.

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Speaker 2: I want to be a hands on mom. I don't

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Speaker 2: want to be thinking that I'm going to be shipped here,

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Speaker 2: shipped there, and my kids are being transferred from here

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Speaker 2: to there. I just didn't want to deal with that.

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Speaker 2: I'd rather be at home with my kids.

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Speaker 1: Before coming to South Korea, Albert had served in Iraq.

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Speaker 1: The newlyweds didn't want to worry about him being deployed again,

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Speaker 1: so they found a military base where Albert could be

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Speaker 1: on active duty without being marshaled out.

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Speaker 2: So that's how we wind up in Georgia because that

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Speaker 2: was the only due the station that was offering him

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Speaker 2: a non deployable status where he wouldn't miss the baby's

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Speaker 2: birth or I wouldn't be left alone.

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Speaker 1: By March two thousand and eight, the young couple was

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Speaker 1: back in the States getting ready for the birth of

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Speaker 1: their baby a few months later. Albert was asleep and

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Speaker 1: Ashley was beside him in bed, watching TV and eating.

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Speaker 2: Let me tell you what I was eating. I had

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Speaker 2: a tray full of food. I had chocolate chip cookies,

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Speaker 2: two peanutreater and jelly salwiches, a glass of milk, a

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Speaker 2: bowl of cereals, and grapes and strawberries. And I was

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Speaker 2: sitting there in the bed eating, and I was watching

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Speaker 2: George Lopez laughing, and I started having contractions, and it

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Speaker 2: got so bad that at one point I slung my

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Speaker 2: fists over on the bed because the contraction hit me

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Speaker 2: so hard, and I hit him and he said, what's wrong.

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Speaker 2: I think I'm having the baby.

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Speaker 1: They headed to Martin Army Community Hospital, where on May

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Speaker 1: twenty ninth, two thousand and eight, Ashley gave birth to

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Speaker 1: a baby girl, Mackenzie Leilanie. Ashley had always loved the

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Speaker 1: name Mackenzie, and Leilani was chosen by Albert, who is pollowin.

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Speaker 2: I've had Mackenzie name picked out since the ninth grade.

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Speaker 2: I was super excited to name my daughter McKenzie. So

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Speaker 2: her middle name is Leilani and it means beautiful flower

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Speaker 2: and allowing culture.

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Speaker 1: After two and a half days in the hospital, Ashley

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Speaker 1: and Albert were able to take Mackenzie home. As for

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Speaker 1: many new parents, their first evening home was nerve wracking.

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Speaker 2: I was afraid to go to sleep. My mind Frank

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Speaker 2: kept thinking, if you go to sleep, something's gonna have

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Speaker 2: She's gonna roll over, she's gonna smother. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I was just very cautious. I was scared. My mom,

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Speaker 2: of course, you know, advice from older people was saying, Ashley,

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Speaker 2: you can go to sleep.

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Speaker 1: And Albert was already asleep preparing to go back to work.

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Speaker 1: So Ashley relented and tried to get some sleep herself,

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Speaker 1: with Mackenzie in the bacinet next to the bed. In

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Speaker 1: the early morning hours of June first, Ashley and Albert

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Speaker 1: were both sleeping fitfully.

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Speaker 2: We were tussling in the bed and we both woke

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Speaker 2: each other up, and we both were dreaming. And I

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Speaker 2: looked at him, he looked at me. I said, I

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Speaker 2: just had the craziest dream, and he said me too.

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Speaker 1: And then they heard Mackenzie fussing in her baconet.

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Speaker 2: I said, well, it's your turn to feeder. So he

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Speaker 2: was getting the bottle ready and I was getting her

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Speaker 2: out of the bassinette. I would tell him about my dream.

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Speaker 2: I said, I was dreaming I was faring through elevator shaft.

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Speaker 2: I said, but when I got to the bottom, I

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Speaker 2: woke up. He said, Oh my god, I was dreaming

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Speaker 2: if falling off a cliff. He said, but when I

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Speaker 2: got to the bottom, I woke up. And I said,

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Speaker 2: that's crazy. And we just started feeding her, and then

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Speaker 2: I noticed the lump on her head and I said,

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Speaker 2: what is that.

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Speaker 1: Ashley called the hospital and spoke to a doctor about

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Speaker 1: the lump of Mackenzie's forehead, but the doctor said she

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Speaker 1: was fine.

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Speaker 2: So then we tried to feed her and she was

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Speaker 2: like she was gasping for air, like she just looked

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Speaker 2: she just couldn't breathe. And I called him back and said,

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Speaker 2: we're bringing her in. And by this time we're hysterical

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Speaker 2: because she doesn't look good. She looks like she's turning colors.

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Speaker 2: And we left everything at a disarray and we left

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Speaker 2: in such of her. We left our cell phones at

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Speaker 2: the house.

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Speaker 1: Within minutes, Mackenzie had taken a turn for the.

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Speaker 2: Worst, and we get to the hospital and before he

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Speaker 2: get me even stopped the car, I was jumping out

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Speaker 2: and I ran inside of the Mercy room and I

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Speaker 2: threw her out at the nurse and I said, please

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Speaker 2: help my baby. Something wrong.

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Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company.

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Speaker 1: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and to making

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Speaker 1: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and

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Speaker 1: in the communities where they work and live. In light

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Speaker 1: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and

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Speaker 1: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform,

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Speaker 1: the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and

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Speaker 1: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. Ashley called her

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Speaker 1: mom from the hospital to tell her what was happening.

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Speaker 1: Brenda and her husband had already planned to come meet

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Speaker 1: Mackenzie the following day, but now she was racing to

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Speaker 1: get to the hospital.

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Speaker 3: We's trying to get them, trying to get the fans

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Speaker 3: Laku and she just as said, maybe I'm on the way.

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Speaker 2: We're erratic, we're scared. We don't know what's going on.

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Speaker 1: A couple of hours passed as the new parents waited

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Speaker 1: anxiously for news of their baby. Finally, a doctor came

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Speaker 1: to tell Ashley and Albert that Mackenzie had passed away.

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Speaker 1: Albert collapsed on the floor.

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Speaker 2: He started crying and screaming and rolling and I just

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Speaker 2: kind of sat there looking at the wall. And then

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Speaker 2: I looked at the doctor and said, go get my

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Speaker 2: baby ready so we could take her home. I think

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Speaker 2: I was just in denial and shot because you just

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Speaker 2: didn't tell me that my daughter was dead, and I

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Speaker 2: just didn't want to believe it.

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Speaker 1: And then almost immediately after Albert and Ashley heard the

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Speaker 1: news about their baby girl, personnel from the military showed.

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Speaker 2: Up and I was a little weird about why they

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Speaker 2: were there. And then Columbus Police Department showed up, and

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Speaker 2: that's when everything pretty much went to hell, and in

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Speaker 2: my mind framed, I was like, no, this is not

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Speaker 2: this is not normal. Nobody calls the police when somebody

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Speaker 2: passes away. This is not normal. She wasn't murdered. Why

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Speaker 2: are they here? And when they separated us, and the

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Speaker 2: kind of questions they were asking and the way the

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Speaker 2: detective was looking at me, that's when I was I said,

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Speaker 2: they think we've done this.

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Speaker 1: Police took note that Albert was devastated, but that Ashley

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Speaker 1: wasn't showing as much emotion.

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Speaker 2: And at that time, I just lost a baby and

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Speaker 2: I don't know how to grieve. At this point, it

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Speaker 2: was just kind of unbelieved, like this was it was

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Speaker 2: like a nightmare happening before my eyes.

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Speaker 1: But at that point police took Ashley back to her

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Speaker 1: and Albert's apartment to photograph and search their home. They

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Speaker 1: began questioning her about what had happened that night.

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Speaker 2: Where was I, like, what time I went to sleep?

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Speaker 2: How long was Albert a sleep before I to sleep?

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Speaker 2: When do we do that day? Who came to the house?

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Speaker 2: Things like that, they were asking.

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Speaker 1: Once the police were done at the apartment, Ashley and

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Speaker 1: Albert were left to process all that had just happened.

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Speaker 2: We couldn't even sleep in our room because her room

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Speaker 2: was right next to ours with all her stuff, so

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Speaker 2: we slept downstairs. We couldn't go up there.

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Speaker 1: By this point, Ashley's mother had arrived.

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Speaker 2: That was just that was two devils. That was just over.

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Speaker 2: That was too much. Oh and I asked he was just.

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Speaker 3: Crying and and aver he was just screaming that background.

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Speaker 3: She was stronger than he were, you know, asked, was

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Speaker 3: slow and he was just screaming and crying, and she said, mamma, go,

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Speaker 3: let me go, try to take care of you know,

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Speaker 3: look after him.

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Speaker 1: The next morning, the police called and said the preliminary

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Speaker 1: autopsy report was ready and that the couple should come

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Speaker 1: to the station. Do you remember when you realized that

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Speaker 1: they thought that you and Albert had done this?

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Speaker 2: I realized that when they separated us, and then that's

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Speaker 2: when interrogation started.

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Speaker 1: Ashley was interrogated by Detective Andrew Tyner.

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Speaker 2: I will never forgive him because he caught me a monster,

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Speaker 2: and he said the preliminary optoxic results said that she

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Speaker 2: died from blunt force trauma to they head and she

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Speaker 2: had multiple score fractures, and that we did it.

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Speaker 1: Ashley and Albert were adamant they had nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with Mackenzie's death and had no idea what happened to her.

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Speaker 1: Yet they were held and interrogated four hours.

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Speaker 2: Now, mind you, on postpartum, I just had a baby

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Speaker 2: and my breast are filling it with milk, and they

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Speaker 2: just sat there and interrogating me for hours and wouldn't

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Speaker 2: give me any feminine hygiene products. And I was bleeding

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Speaker 2: from having the baby, and they just sat there and

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Speaker 2: kept interrogating me, and so I didn't understand what was happening.

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Speaker 2: So I just assumed that I would go home, like

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Speaker 2: I just thought that we would go home. I didn't

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Speaker 2: think it would be what happened for sure, though. We

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Speaker 2: didn't go home.

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Speaker 1: And eventually the detectives tried to turn Ashley and Albert

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Speaker 1: against each other.

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Speaker 2: If one of y'all just say y'all did it, because

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Speaker 2: both of y'all gonna go to jail, and both y'all

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Speaker 2: gonna go to prison. But if one of y'all just

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Speaker 2: say y'all did it, then one of y'all can go

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Speaker 2: home and help fight for the other one. That's what

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Speaker 2: they told us. But they made sure nothing was recording

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Speaker 2: when they did that. And he was about to say

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Speaker 2: he did it just so I can go home and

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Speaker 2: won't go to jail, and I looked at him and

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Speaker 2: I grabbed his hand and I said, no, you're not.

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Speaker 2: You will not lie for these people. He said, I

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Speaker 2: don't want you to go to Joel. I said, I

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Speaker 2: don't care. We're gonna go together then, and that's just

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Speaker 2: what it's going to be. I said, because we didn't

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Speaker 2: do anything wrong.

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Speaker 1: Ashley and Albert were arrested that same day. Did you

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Speaker 1: think it was possible that they could have done this

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Speaker 1: at all? Did you think that was possible?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 3: No, baby, I never even think twice, not even for

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Speaker 3: a split second, that they done something to that baby.

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Speaker 3: Oh they were They owned a child, and they had

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Speaker 3: everything going for them.

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Speaker 2: Are you serious?

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Speaker 3: They had everything going for them.

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Speaker 1: Ashley was charged with malice murder, felony murder, and cruelty

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Speaker 1: to children in the first degree.

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Speaker 2: And it was the most humiliating experience is being booked

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Speaker 2: into the county jail. They strip you of everything that

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Speaker 2: was ever yours. I'm bleeding from having a baby. They

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Speaker 2: don't provide you with any type of extra clothing. They

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Speaker 2: just give you. They give you their uniform and I said, well,

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Speaker 2: I don't have any underwear and I'm bleeding. But it

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Speaker 2: was like aus so we don't provide that. And they

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Speaker 2: set me in a cell and a cold sale for

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Speaker 2: hours on concrete, and then I got took a mug

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Speaker 2: shot and they put me in a suicide sale and

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Speaker 2: I remember bleeding all over my pants. I just felt disgusted.

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Speaker 2: I just remember crying and crying in that cell, thinking

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Speaker 2: this can't be happening to us, like we didn't do

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Speaker 2: nothing wrong.

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Speaker 1: Alone in the cell, Ashley's mind was racing.

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Speaker 2: I started thinking about him, I started thinking about our daughter.

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Speaker 2: I started thinking about our life and how they were

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Speaker 2: portraying us to be. I wouldn't have been on top

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Speaker 2: of the world, had a new marriage. I was mad

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Speaker 2: a baby, and then I woke up in the whole

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Speaker 2: rebel was on top of me and I didn't know

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Speaker 2: how to breathe. And at that moment is when I

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Speaker 2: contemplated killing myself. I kept looking around thinking like what

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Speaker 2: can I do? How can I do it?

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Speaker 1: Over a year later, on October twenty sixth, two thousand,

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Speaker 1: the trial started. The prosecutor was Sadana Daily. Ashley and

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Speaker 1: Albert each had a separate defense team.

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Speaker 4: One of the things that the state really wanted to

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Speaker 4: present was to depict Ashley as a cold hearted, really

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Speaker 4: this angry black woman, because that's the kind of woman

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Speaker 4: that would harm her own child.

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Speaker 1: This is Jiminyue Rodgers. She's a criminal defense attorney and

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Speaker 1: a doctoral student in criminal justice and criminology and has

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Speaker 1: represented Ashley.

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Speaker 4: And so what the jury heard was the state saying

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Speaker 4: that Ashley was this cold hearted woman who was controlling,

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Speaker 4: controlling of Albert, and that she didn't show any appropriate

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Speaker 4: sadness when her baby died, and that whatever was going on,

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Speaker 4: they were trying to hide things. And then they presented

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Speaker 4: doctor Darisol to say that there is no way, there's

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Speaker 4: no other way other than intentionally an intentional blunt force trauma,

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Speaker 4: that the injuries to Mackenzie would have occurred.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Laura Darisaw was a medical examiner for the Georgia

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Speaker 1: Bureau of Investigation and the state's primary witness. She performed

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Speaker 1: the autopsy on Mackenzie the day after she died. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Darisaw said she found extensive fractures on Mackenzie's head and

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Speaker 1: bleeding in the brain.

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Speaker 4: And once she saw blood, she deemed this to be

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Speaker 4: a homicide and reached out called out to law enforcement

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Speaker 4: and communicated that unless the parents had some other explanation

441
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 4: for this, then it had to be blunt force trauma,

442
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 4: either by a series of blows to Mackenzie's head or

443
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 4: a crushing type of injury.

444
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: Doctor Darisol concluded that the injuries happened near the time

445
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: of Mackenzie's death by no more than four hours, and

446
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: the injuries were so traumatic that if they had happened

447
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,479
Speaker 1: during birth, the hospital would have noticed. The prosecution concluded that,

448
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 1: without any other explanation, this was a homicide by the

449
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: only two people who were with Mackenzie that night. The

450
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 1: state also presented a jailhouse informant, Melvin Tarver, who had

451
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: been in jail at the same time as Albert.

452
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 4: He testified that on the morning that trial was about

453
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 4: to start, Albert told him that his wife had harmed

454
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 4: the baby.

455
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 1: Tarvor's story was that Albert told him he had gone

456
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: out to get drugs that night, and when he returned,

457
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 1: the baby wasn't moving. According to Albert.

458
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 4: He asked Ashley, you know what you did. What did

459
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 4: you do and asked, she says nothing. I just spanked

460
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 4: her and put her to bed.

461
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 1: Tell me about the jailhouse snitch. Can you tell me

462
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 1: what you thought when you saw them on the stand.

463
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,199
Speaker 2: I was livid. I was ready to jump over that

464
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 2: table and fight, and I'm not a light in person.

465
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: But when he came to the door, I looked at Albert,

466
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 2: I said, do you know him? He said, no, I

467
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 2: don't know him at all, And I know he was

468
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 2: in line because I'm so I'm the person that can

469
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 2: walk into a room full of strangers and make friends.

470
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 2: He's gonna walk into the room and sit by himself.

471
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 2: He's not talking to anybody because he's quiet. He's very humble,

472
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 2: very to himself. So no, so I didn't believe it.

473
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 2: But I was so mad because I was look like,

474
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 2: what is who is this guy? But what made me

475
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 2: mad was that the fact that the judge even allowed

476
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 2: it to happen.

477
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 1: Jiminique says that off the bat, Ashley and Albert were

478
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: at a disadvantage.

479
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 4: There was a systemic breakdown in a fundamentally fair trial

480
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 4: for Albert in Ashley. They sat in jail for quite

481
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 4: some time without proper representation, and that sets the stage

482
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 4: for what happened with their attorneys once they got in court.

483
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 1: Ashley hired private attorneys Sandy Callahan, and Albert was appointed

484
00:27:58,560 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: Bill Mason.

485
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,959
Speaker 4: And both of these were highly respected attorneys. They had

486
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 4: two very different perspectives of going into the trial. Albert's

487
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 4: attorney's strategy was to not challenge the medical evidence to

488
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 4: be presented by doctor Dearisol and the prosecutor On the

489
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 4: other hand, Ashley's attorney wanted and intended to challenge that

490
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 4: medical evidence.

491
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 1: In order to challenge the prosecution's medical evidence, Callahan brought

492
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 1: in John Plunkett, a forensic expert, to talk about shaking

493
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: baby syndrome or SBS. The science behind this diagnosis was

494
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: starting to be questioned at the time. Experts had found

495
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: other causes or conditions that could mimic symptoms of SBS. Today,

496
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: SBS is acknowledged to be junk science. But there was

497
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: a problem with Plunkett refuting doctor Dearisol. The judge Douglas

498
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: Pullan did not require the prosecution to turn over the

499
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: medical evidence they were going to use at trial.

500
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 4: And there was no way that the a defendant can

501
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 4: prepare a defense a medical defense without the evidence that

502
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 4: the prosecutor has, And because of the collaborative efforts of

503
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 4: the judge and the prosecutor in the case, the defense

504
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 4: was never able to get this information. So at that

505
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 4: point Ashley's attorney asked for a continuance. Albert's attorney opposed it,

506
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 4: and the judge, Judge Douglas Pullan, denied it, and so

507
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 4: that was the context in which the trial began.

508
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: So Ultimately, Ashley was unable to have a medical defense.

509
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,719
Speaker 1: In fact, Callahan didn't put on much of a defense

510
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: for Ashley at all. During closing arguments, prosecutor Daily pointed

511
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: out that the defense did not present any evidence contradicting

512
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: doctor Dearisol.

513
00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 4: Neither the defense attorney nor the judge stopped the prosecutor

514
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 4: when she shifted the burden too. The debl bot saying

515
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 4: they had the responsibility to present some evidence that this

516
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 4: was not homicide, and they would have, but they don't

517
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 4: have any evidence. And then they ended by arguing and

518
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 4: closing that the state didn't even have to prove, really

519
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 4: what we consider proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

520
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: At the end of any trial, if there's a doubt,

521
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: the jury must acquit. The prosecution's burden was to prove

522
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: beyond any doubt that Albert and Ashley were guilty, but

523
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: in her closing argument, Daily shifted the meaning of reasonable doubt.

524
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 4: She goes on and says, this means we don't have

525
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 4: to prove that ninety percent. You don't have to be

526
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 4: ninety percent sure, you don't have to be eighty percent sure,

527
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 4: you don't have to be fifty one percent sure. It

528
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 4: does not mean to a mathematical certainty. The fifty one

529
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 4: percent sure is so offensive because it simply means that

530
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 4: this prosecution doesn't have to present and doesn't have to

531
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 4: meet any Burton.

532
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: Either. Ashley nor Albert's attorneys objected to that misrepresentation of

533
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: reasonable doubt, and Daley went on to make other misstatements

534
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: and inaccuracies that the defense failed to object to as well.

535
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: After a short four day trial, on October twenty ninth,

536
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, Ashley and Albert were convicted of

537
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: all three charges and sentenced to life in prison. When

538
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: Ashley got to prison, she had no hope left.

539
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 2: I will try to commit suicide. And I tried to

540
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 2: take all my pills, and I had f my medicine,

541
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 2: and I tried to do it again, but a friend

542
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 2: walked in and stopped me.

543
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: Ashley knew she needed to create a routine if she

544
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: wanted to survive, so she got a job and started

545
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: making friends and taking courses and classes.

546
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 2: One thing I learned while I was there was to

547
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 2: stack your paper. If people say stack your paper your money,

548
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 2: I said, no, stack your resume.

549
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: In two thousand and nine, Ashley's team moved for a

550
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: new trial, arguing ineffective assistance of counsel based largely on

551
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: a failure to present medical evidence, rebutting the state's case.

552
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: A few years later, in twenty fourteen, Jimmynique came on

553
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: Ashley's case.

554
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 4: They were only arrested because there was a lack of

555
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 4: the ability for them, as parents to explain what happened

556
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 4: to their child. They were then denied the opportunity to

557
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 4: have a full medical analysis of their case to get

558
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 4: a fair day in.

559
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: Court in twenty fifteen. That day finally came, Judge Arthur

560
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: Smith the Third heard medical testimonies from defense experts who

561
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: concluded that Mackenzie's injuries likely happened before birth. After years

562
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: of appeals being denied, finally on February twenty eighth, twenty twenty,

563
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: the Georgia Supreme Court vacated their convictions based on any

564
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: effective assistance of counsel at trial. Tell me about when

565
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: you found out Ashley and Albert were going to get out.

566
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 3: Oh, I found that before CD and it's why just

567
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 3: called me and told me, told me.

568
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 2: I dropped the phone.

569
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: Brenda couldn't wait to tell her daughter the good news.

570
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 3: She called me and I said, well, Ashley, I said, y'all,

571
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 3: convision has been overturned.

572
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 2: Sweetie, I heard, don't was She's screamed.

573
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 3: She just just bust out his though A you for Rea.

574
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 2: She's the right, ast, greatest, saying thank you. She kept

575
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 2: saying thank you, thank you, the thanks.

576
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: After their release, the current district Attorney Mark Jones apologized

577
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: publicly to the devile bots on behalf of the court.

578
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: In his apology, Jones said, there is now quote mounting

579
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 1: medical evidence that says the child was born this way.

580
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: Ashley was finally free, but although she and Albert stayed

581
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,439
Speaker 1: in touch during their imprisonment and were able to see

582
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: each other occasionally, the trauma they had endured was too

583
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: much for their marriage. While they were still incarcerated, Albert

584
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: asked for a divorce.

585
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 2: He was so busy fighting for his life. How do

586
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 2: you fight for your marriage to stay when you're trying

587
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 2: to fight for your life? He said, he didn't even

588
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 2: know me no more as a woner. He didn't even

589
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,240
Speaker 2: remember me as that person.

590
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: What did that feel like when he when he said that,

591
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: I was devastated.

592
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 2: I felt less than I felt ugly because of course

593
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 2: I can't dress up and look nice like I would

594
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 2: if we were home. So where time he saw me,

595
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 2: I had on a jail uniform that was dirty and dingy.

596
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 2: My hair wasn't comb like I like it in, and

597
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 2: it just looks awful. So I felt like maybe he

598
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 2: thought I was ugly now, and maybe he could remember

599
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 2: what I looked like before this, because all he see

600
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,479
Speaker 2: is this. So a lot of people ran through my mind.

601
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,439
Speaker 4: They never got to grieve for their child and then

602
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 4: were left to sit in prison for years, the prime

603
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,760
Speaker 4: years of their lives while they waited hoping to get justice.

604
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 4: The devil Bots can never go back. They can never

605
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 4: go back and recover the years that they lost.

606
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,280
Speaker 1: But Ashley is trying. She moved into her own place,

607
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: started working, is in school for health administration and management,

608
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: and has made friends with her neighbor, Miss Jackie.

609
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 2: We kind of bonded because she lost a child too.

610
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 2: She lost a son, and we bonded off dealing with

611
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 2: that as a whole as mother's.

612
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: Like the rest of her large family, Ashley loves to

613
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: cook and share meals. One day, Ashley was bringing over

614
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: food to Miss Jackie, so.

615
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 2: I would just cook all this food like I had

616
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 2: a big family living here with me, and I would

617
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:40,280
Speaker 2: take her food too.

618
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,720
Speaker 1: And that day Miss Jackie was with her daughter, Freda,

619
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,240
Speaker 1: a sergeant in the military. When she met Freda, Ashley

620
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 1: felt herself opening up to love again.

621
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:53,959
Speaker 2: I enjoyed being a wife. I enjoyed being a mom.

622
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 2: I enjoyed that life and I wanted it back. But

623
00:36:58,080 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 2: I just didn't know how I wanted it back because

624
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 2: I was so afraid of people. I was afraid to

625
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 2: trust people. I was afraid to be around people. And

626
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 2: I looked up Freedo one day and I was like,

627
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 2: this is happening. We started talking, I guess talking in March,

628
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 2: and I asked her to marry me October first.

629
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,439
Speaker 1: Now Ashley is making a family with Freda and Frida's son.

630
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 2: Everything is still so new to me and I'm learning,

631
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 2: but I'm so glad that I have a partner that's

632
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 2: willing to be patient with me and kind with me

633
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 2: and loving with me and let me be a mother.

634
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 2: An addition to mother to her.

635
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 1: Son, Ashley is also focused on advocating for reform within

636
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: the prison system.

637
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 2: I'm using what happened to me as a beacon for

638
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 2: goodness and for positiveness, because even though I was innocent.

639
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 2: A lot of my friends are guilty and they have

640
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 2: to do their time, but they still deserve to be

641
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 2: treated with humane conditions and respecting dignity. And that's not

642
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 2: what's happening in the prison. But I would have never

643
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 2: known that unless this happened to me.

644
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: Ashley applied for compensation for her wrongful conviction from the

645
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: State of Georgia. In Georgia, a specific bill has to

646
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 1: be passed for each individual, and Ashley's bill for compensation

647
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 1: was denied in twenty twenty one. I asked Ashley if

648
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: she has anything she'd like to say to listeners, and

649
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:29,800
Speaker 1: she does.

650
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 2: If anybody's listening, miss, you're registered to vote. And I

651
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,240
Speaker 2: say this because there's over one hundred and ninety thousand

652
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 2: people on Paroland to say to Georgia and they're not

653
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 2: allowed to vote. There's over nineteen thousand people that are

654
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 2: on probation in Georgia and they're not allowed to vote.

655
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,240
Speaker 2: They get out of prison after they're saved their time successfully,

656
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 2: they pay taxes in the state that they're not allowed

657
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 2: to even vote for the leadership over them in that

658
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: actual state. So if you don't vote for anybody else,

659
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 2: vote for those who can't vote for themselves, and that's

660
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 2: all I gotta say.

661
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: To help support the cause of ex offender voting rights,

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Speaker 1: go to Women on the RISEGA dot org or the

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Speaker 1: Southern Center for Human Rights at SCCHR dot org. You'll

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Speaker 1: find all those links in our bio. Next time, on

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Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling Charles Jackson.

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Speaker 2: They put their guns on me.

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Speaker 3: They asked me for my driver's license, saw my name is,

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Speaker 3: I guess just him and locked me up.

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Speaker 2: So I didn't had none to wordy about because I

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Speaker 2: didn't do anything.

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Speaker 3: Three four days later, you know I was tried with murder.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. Please

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00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,919
Speaker 1: support your local innocence organizations and go to the links

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00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: in our bio to see how you can help. I'd

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00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,760
Speaker 1: like to thank our executive producers Jason Flamm and Kevin Wurdis,

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00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 1: as well as our senior producer Annie Chelsea, producer Lyla Robinson,

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Speaker 1: and story editor Sonya Paul. The show is edited and

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00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: mixed by Annie Chelsea, with additional production by Jeff Cliburn

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00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: and Connor Hall. The music in this production is by

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Speaker 1: three time Oscar nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to

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Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at

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Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as

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Speaker 1: well as at Lava for Good. On all three platforms,

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Speaker 1: you can also follow me on both Instagram and Twitter

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Speaker 1: at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling is a

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00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal

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Speaker 1: Company Number one