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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace the Brian Coburger trial joining

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Speaker 1: us tonight. Kaylee Gonsalvas's father is with us live. I'm

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us.

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Speaker 2: My niece called.

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Speaker 3: And she was very frantic.

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Speaker 4: And she was asking me if I had talked to Kaylee.

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Speaker 4: Katie Spudles directly voicemail circling Maddie.

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Speaker 2: Nobody's answering.

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Speaker 4: It's ringing and ringing, right me, ringing.

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Speaker 2: To return on the TV and we see live news

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Speaker 2: coverage and gives out one play hero.

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Speaker 4: Kaylee and Maddie are both dead.

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Speaker 3: A Quadrille homicide.

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Speaker 5: News came in that the police are responding to a

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Speaker 5: call of someone found unconscious. That's the call that originally

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Speaker 5: came in, and then they responded and then they found

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Speaker 5: before additional bodies, the four bodies of these students inside

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Speaker 5: the home. It was originally a call not retaining two

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Speaker 5: four dead bodies, but that's what they found when they

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Speaker 5: entered the home. It was shocking news to hear, especially

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Speaker 5: coming from just the most quiet town.

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Speaker 1: You were just hearing investigator reporter Ava Waynehouse. At the

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Speaker 1: very beginning, we didn't even understand what had happened. At

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Speaker 1: the beginning, when police were called to the King Road address,

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Speaker 1: no one knew what was to unfold. As the news unfolded,

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Speaker 1: it got worse and worse and worse. And that is

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Speaker 1: for us on the outside looking in. Joining me tonight

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Speaker 1: is a very special guest, Steve Gonsalves. This is Kelly

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Speaker 1: Gonsalvas's father, Steve. Thank you so much for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. I appreciate you supporting these kids.

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Speaker 1: I really don't even know how to take that, because

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Speaker 1: I don't know who in the world could not support

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Speaker 1: you and your family and Kelly and the other children.

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Speaker 1: There are children that were killed that night. I just

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Speaker 1: want you to know before we start that you and

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Speaker 1: your wife and your family are the objects of so

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Speaker 1: many prayers. I know it's hard for a lot of

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Speaker 1: people that have never suffered as a crime victim to

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Speaker 1: identify or to relate to what you're going through, but

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Speaker 1: I know from firsthand experience that it's horrible and that it.

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Speaker 3: Never goes away.

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Speaker 1: And I look at you as you speak to the press,

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Speaker 1: as you go about your life, and I've got to

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Speaker 1: tell you, I am in so much awe and admiration

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Speaker 1: about how you continue forward, how you put one foot

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Speaker 1: in front of the other and you get up every

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Speaker 1: day and you keep going and you keep fighting. You

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Speaker 1: were mentioning earlier how people ask you, Hey, how did

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Speaker 1: it turn out?

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Speaker 3: What do you mean by that? Steve?

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Speaker 2: We have a we have a Facebook page, so we've

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Speaker 2: garnered attention from other countries, and I guess maybe from

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Speaker 2: those countries respective of it. Two years, they assume it's over.

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Speaker 2: They assume that we're done, so they they'll chime in,

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Speaker 2: they'll comment, they'll send us messages and ask us how

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Speaker 2: did it turn out? You know, people have their own lives,

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Speaker 2: they're running around doing their own things, and then they

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Speaker 2: catch back up. They're like, oh, yeah, what happened there

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Speaker 2: in America? And they reach out to us directly because

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Speaker 2: we've opened up those lines of communication, and we have

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Speaker 2: to tell them it hasn't even started. We have not

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Speaker 2: even got to a schedule yet.

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Speaker 1: You know, when you say it hasn't even started, I've

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Speaker 1: got to tell you, going through the trial is.

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Speaker 3: Going to be pure hell. And you know that in

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Speaker 3: addition to what you've already been through.

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Speaker 1: I wonder how you and your family feel as you

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Speaker 1: see other cases hit the headline and take away focus

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Speaker 1: from what you know to be the most important case

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Speaker 1: there is. I remember when my fiance was murdered, I

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Speaker 1: felt like I had stepped off the world. And I

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Speaker 1: look back and amazingly, the world was still spinning. People

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Speaker 1: are still going to work, people are still going out

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Speaker 1: to nightclubs and movies and out to dinner. And I

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Speaker 1: think it was just too much for me to take

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Speaker 1: in because my world had stopped. I couldn't hear music,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't even hear the clocks ticking in the house.

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Speaker 3: It just no no TV, nothing, Everything had to stop.

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Speaker 1: And I've been wondering how you deal with the fact

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Speaker 1: that seemingly the world is marching on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're reminded of that every day you wake up

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Speaker 2: and you need to get up and go to work,

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Speaker 2: and you have all these pressing issues. So yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: part of the reason why we're is to make sure

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Speaker 2: that my daughter's case is going to get the right

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Speaker 2: people and the right attention and then you know the

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Speaker 2: right resolution. So you think it's a guarantee in America,

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Speaker 2: but I think those times have changed. I think you

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Speaker 2: really have to come up and you have to say

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Speaker 2: something and you have to get people involved. And I've

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Speaker 2: heard that from other people who have cases that were

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Speaker 2: never solved where they wish they could have gone back

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Speaker 2: and picked up that phone or opened up that door

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Speaker 2: where there's people, you know, knocking on their doors trying

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Speaker 2: to try to get the inside story. So I knew

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Speaker 2: with my child there wasn't anything I wouldn't have done to,

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Speaker 2: you know, make sure that I was talking and getting

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Speaker 2: that information out and getting people's attention that we can't

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Speaker 2: allow people to be go to school, go to college,

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Speaker 2: and be killed in their sleep from from some outsider.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's terrible thing is going on, but a

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Speaker 2: complete stranger hunting your child down and getting them while

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Speaker 2: they're sleeping. It's just just you can't get that through

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Speaker 2: your head that that's even possible.

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Speaker 1: Mister Gonsalves, what you just said has been my theory

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Speaker 1: from about day three, hunting them down because people always ask.

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Speaker 1: Of course, as you know now, the state doesn't have

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Speaker 1: to prove a motive, but practically speaking, a jury will

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Speaker 1: want to know a motive. And I believe with all

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Speaker 1: my heart from what we know now, and that may

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Speaker 1: change as a trial progresses, that the victims were hunted down.

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Speaker 1: There is no motive that we can understand normal people

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Speaker 1: can understand. I think you're right, mister Gonsolvist. I think

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Speaker 1: they were hunted and stalked and watched.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: I know the state came out in court and said

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Speaker 1: there's no evidence of stalking, and I take that to

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Speaker 1: Maine in the legal sense, like sending Kelly emails or letters,

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Speaker 1: or leaving things at her doorstep, just showing up at

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Speaker 1: her work trying to date her. I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: stalking in that sense the way we normally think of it.

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Speaker 1: I think it was more, as you said, hunting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to be careful how I describe some

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Speaker 2: of the things that's out there. But yeah, this is

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Speaker 2: a criminologist. This is somebody who spent you know, probably

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Speaker 2: a century studying law and getting the ins and outs.

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Speaker 2: This person knows there cannot be a direct connection and

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Speaker 2: easy direct connection. That's how everyone gets caught. So you

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Speaker 2: got to reverse engineer it back to what he was

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Speaker 2: doing and the steps he was taking. I think this

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Speaker 2: will go all the way back to his Pennsylvania home,

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Speaker 2: in his actual room. You're going to find out that

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Speaker 2: he planned this murder from that actual location, and he

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Speaker 2: left Pennsylvania with a thought and a motivation to go

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Speaker 2: out and kill someone.

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Speaker 1: You know, Steve, you are bringing up a lot of

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Speaker 1: evidentiary implications with what you just said. I think what

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Speaker 1: you're saying is entirely possible. So you believe, and I

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Speaker 1: understand you are not divulging your source.

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Speaker 3: You believe, and.

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Speaker 1: I'm interpreting that Coburger was at Pullman and upon going

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Speaker 1: back home before he started school, he had locked into

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Speaker 1: your daughter.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if he locked into the actual victims.

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Speaker 2: I just know that there's signs that point to this

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Speaker 2: individual had a lot of troubled past and he I

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Speaker 2: believe they're going to show that this crime started back there.

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Speaker 2: I think they're going to be able to prove that

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Speaker 2: he thought and planned and strategized this murder and came

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Speaker 2: out here picked a community. I even think the Smile

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Speaker 2: and personal film. I think he picked this area because

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Speaker 2: of some previous killers in this area, and I think

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Speaker 2: he came out here thinking that he was going to

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Speaker 2: outdo them. He was going to be that type of killer.

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Speaker 2: The Northwest has a history of some pretty prevalent mass murder,

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Speaker 2: serial killers, and I think he came out here with

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Speaker 2: an idea and a notion that he was going to

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Speaker 2: show them how to do it.

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Speaker 1: I don't think there's any question, mister Gonsalvas, that he

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Speaker 1: was motivated. Of course, I'm just a trial lawyer and

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Speaker 1: a crime victim. I'm not a shrink. I don't think

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Speaker 1: there's any question that his attack, and of course he's

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Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in the court of law.

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Speaker 1: His attack was motivated by his bizarre interest in criminals,

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Speaker 1: the criminal mind, and criminology. It could have been a

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Speaker 1: desire to know what it feels like to murder someone.

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Speaker 1: I don't know the motivation, and frankly, don't care about

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Speaker 1: the motivation. I care only about motiv as it relates

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Speaker 1: to what a jury will want to hear. It's all

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Speaker 1: I would care about, because to me, it doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: why he did it, matters that he did it. Question

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Speaker 1: to you, and I know you've been asked this before,

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Speaker 1: how did the whole thing start?

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Speaker 3: For you? When? Where? How did you learn something horrible?

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Speaker 2: It happened We were sitting at home as a family.

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Speaker 2: Almost everybody was here. Olivia was living down southern California,

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Speaker 2: but everyone else was here. We were watching a football game,

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Speaker 2: and you know, we started the phone rang and we

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Speaker 2: heard that something was going on. As a father of

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Speaker 2: five kids, I can't tell you how many times we

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Speaker 2: think something bad has happened and the kids. We can't

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Speaker 2: find one of the kids and they're just hiding underneath

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Speaker 2: the table or something. So you try to stay calm,

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Speaker 2: and you try to tell yourself that this is just

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Speaker 2: some rumor something that's been blown out of proportion. Maybe

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Speaker 2: there was some type of accident, but it's not like

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Speaker 2: what it's been described to you. So you just sit

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Speaker 2: there and you start getting active. You know, we all

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Speaker 2: started grabbing computers, laptops and started searching. And then we

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Speaker 2: did see that, you know, King Road on King Road.

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Speaker 2: So then we're thinking it's a bad fight, some kind

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Speaker 2: of quarrel between a relationship with something, the things that

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Speaker 2: you typically hear out here in Idaho, where you know

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Speaker 2: you're going to have those types of fights and those

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Speaker 2: type of news stories, But you're never thinking it's going

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Speaker 2: to be a homicide of four people. You know, it

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Speaker 2: just that just doesn't go there. And I don't think

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Speaker 2: we even understood what happened for weeks you know, we

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Speaker 2: were just in a daze, like what you're describing, like

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Speaker 2: I couldn't even hear music, you know, music stopped harmonizing.

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Speaker 2: Things just don't make sense anymore. You're just you're just broken,

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Speaker 2: and you're just trying to figure out who's responsible and

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Speaker 2: what you're going to do about it, and how you're

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Speaker 2: going to get to the hold them accountable and figure

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Speaker 2: out the truth. You know, I really needed to know

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Speaker 2: the truth, and since that day, we've been on a

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Speaker 2: mission to make sure that we do everything to get

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Speaker 2: to the bottom of this.

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Speaker 3: Crime.

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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Gray. You know, Steve, I remember when

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Speaker 1: I first learned on the phone from Keith's sister that

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Speaker 1: he was dead. First of all, I didn't believe it.

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Speaker 1: I thought there had been an accident of some sort,

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Speaker 1: and if I could just get there really quickly, I

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Speaker 1: could fix it. I could talk to the doctors, I

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Speaker 1: could talk to the empt Somehow, I.

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Speaker 3: Didn't even know where he was, and I remember.

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Speaker 1: Not believing he was dead until I was reading upside

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Speaker 1: down what my pastor was writing and said Bernstein Funeral Home.

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Speaker 1: Then it started kind of dawning on me, and I

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Speaker 1: assumed it had been an accident until he told me

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Speaker 1: that Keith had been murdered shot. When you first got

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Speaker 1: that call, mister Consolvis, what were you told that allowed

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Speaker 1: you to think, well, there's been some misunderstanding, there's been

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Speaker 1: an accident.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to find out what's really happening.

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Speaker 1: Like she's hiding under the table like when she did

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Speaker 1: when she was little. What were you told to make

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Speaker 1: you think, Okay, I can fix this.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to find out what's happening.

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Speaker 2: You know, I have so many other children around me

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Speaker 2: that were in so much pain that I really didn't

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Speaker 2: have a lot of time to even think about myself.

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Speaker 2: I grew up on a football team all the way

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Speaker 2: up to college, and your coaches just pounding your head

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Speaker 2: that it's not about you, it's about your team, it's

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Speaker 2: around it's about the people around you. So I kind

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Speaker 2: of just turned myself off and then just focused on

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Speaker 2: all these kids that were in pain. And then I said,

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Speaker 2: I'm kind of old fashioned, So I just said, you

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Speaker 2: know what, guys, we have to pick up the phone.

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Speaker 2: We have to figure out what happened. You need to

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Speaker 2: call all of her friends. And that's what they did.

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Speaker 2: They got out on social media. They started finding everything,

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Speaker 2: and that's when it became It still wasn't real, though,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't real, because I know my girls. I know, Maddie,

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Speaker 2: these are's like some of the sweetest, most gentle souls

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Speaker 2: that you've ever met. So gentle people don't get murdered.

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Speaker 2: It's just not It's not something that even makes sense

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Speaker 2: to you. So I don't know when it actually became real.

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Speaker 2: I know that when you talk about going to the funeral,

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Speaker 2: and I remember thinking just how appalling the whole thing

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Speaker 2: was and how gross it was, and how I had

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Speaker 2: to go into this place and I'm conducting business. That's

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Speaker 2: where I switched. You know, I can't be a victim.

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Speaker 2: I'm one of those guys. This is like, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to turn this on whoever did this, and I'm coming

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Speaker 2: for him, and I'm going to get them, and we're

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Speaker 2: going to bring wrath on this individual. And if that

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Speaker 2: means I got to wake up four in the morning

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Speaker 2: and do interviews and talk to people and work with

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Speaker 2: willing people as strangers become friends. And that's what we're

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Speaker 2: That's what we did, you know, That's what we're doing

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Speaker 2: right now to this day. I'm still trying to connect

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Speaker 2: dots with anyone who's listening, you know, and that includes

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Speaker 2: the prosecution team, whoever wants to pick up the phone

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Speaker 2: and reach out to us if they have something. We're

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Speaker 2: still here, We're still collecting data.

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Speaker 5: When everything originally happened, the lack of confirmation, you know

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Speaker 5: from I mean, at first it was rumors of murder

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Speaker 5: suicide that was ruled out, things like that. When you

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Speaker 5: live in a small college town, it hurts to not

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Speaker 5: know exactly. And even forty eight hours later, when we

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Speaker 5: were still on seeing students who are feeling like they

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Speaker 5: wanted more from local authorities, and especially wanted more for

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Speaker 5: the families of the victims.

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Speaker 6: Goldberger's trial officially changed venues to Ada County in hopes

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Speaker 6: of a fair trial. What's next for the suspected Idaho

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Speaker 6: students killer.

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Speaker 7: Just around three am, in fact, it might have been

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Speaker 7: even a little earlier, a man named Brian Christopher Coberger

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Speaker 7: was taken into custody in Albrightsville, Pennsylvania. That is nearly

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Speaker 7: three thousand miles away, in fact, much more more than

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Speaker 7: twenty five hundred miles away from the crime scene here

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Speaker 7: in Moscow, Idaho.

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Speaker 1: That's right, arrested three thousand miles away from the crime

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Speaker 1: scene at King Road, the spot where Steve Goldsolves believes

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Speaker 1: the murder plan was actually hatched. Who is Brian Coburger. Well,

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Speaker 1: we can come up with all the theories we want,

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Speaker 1: but I want you.

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Speaker 3: To see Coburger on video. Now.

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Speaker 1: This is after a female traffic cop, and I want

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Speaker 1: to emphasize a female, a lady cop had pulled him

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Speaker 1: over for a traffic violation. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I was just slightly into the crosswalk. So yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 5: Where I'm from Pennsylvania, we actually don't have like crosswalks.

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Speaker 8: Oh, so interest here if you're kind of slightly Yeah,

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Speaker 8: there's a little bit more leeway as well, Like there

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Speaker 8: are a few.

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Speaker 5: Lines, Like there's one white line, there's another one.

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Speaker 8: Like there's like a like a certain margins from which

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Speaker 8: you can actually kind of quit your Viet Goo plaice

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Speaker 8: or vehicle.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, laws very state to state, but there is a

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Speaker 9: law in Washington for blocking an intersection like that proceeding

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Speaker 9: through and you don't when you're just stalling.

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Speaker 3: I forget the actual verbiage.

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Speaker 9: I can find it for you, but it's like stalling

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Speaker 9: blocking an intersection. I'm just curious about Oh no.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I can find it for you. He seems normal.

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Speaker 10: He's actually challenging the lady cop on her knowledge of

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Speaker 10: the traffic law and actually has her look up the law.

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Speaker 9: Listen, Okay, so I found it. So I don't know

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Speaker 9: what in Pennsylvania to the where you go to find

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Speaker 9: law has, But in Washington it's called the Revise Code

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Speaker 9: of Washington. So I'll try to turn my brightness up.

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Speaker 9: But it's basically it's just called an RCW. So it's

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Speaker 9: RCW forty six sixty one dot two zero two. So

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Speaker 9: it's no driver shall enter an intersection unless there is

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Speaker 9: significant space on the other side of the intersection to

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Speaker 9: accommodate the vehicle he is operating without obstructing the passage

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Speaker 9: of other vehicles, despite any traffic control signals signal indications.

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Speaker 1: And it goes on and on and on. Joining us

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Speaker 1: Tonight Live is the dad of Kili Gunsolves. Steve is

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Speaker 1: with us, but to doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, renowned

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Speaker 1: psychoalyst out of Beverly Hills, author of deal Breaker. You

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Speaker 1: can see her now on Peacock. Doctor Bethany, we see

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Speaker 1: not only that and the dismissive treatment, the challenging of

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Speaker 1: the lady officer.

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Speaker 3: His car is.

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Speaker 1: In the crosswalk while people are trying to cross.

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Speaker 3: Okay, simple, easy.

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Speaker 1: But then we fast forward to helping out and I'm

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Speaker 1: putting that in quotes a female colleague with her home

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Speaker 1: security video when he actually hooks it up so.

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Speaker 3: He can watch her at home.

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Speaker 1: What changing clothes, going to the bathroom, who comes to

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Speaker 1: her front door, sitting on the sofa watching TV. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it goes from one thing to the next. Regarding women.

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Speaker 1: We see him being asked to leave bars because he

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Speaker 1: freaks women out, walking.

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Speaker 3: Up to them saying, Hey, what's your home address. It's

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Speaker 3: just on and on and on with him and women.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious as to how that played in to him fixing.

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Speaker 11: On Kelly Nancy four psychopaths, which he most certainly is.

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Speaker 11: Sex and violence are fused, they are considered one and

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Speaker 11: the same. They go hand in hand. So with the

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Speaker 11: female cop, we can't see that he's lying prolifically. He

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Speaker 11: says there are no crosswalks in his state. He's fascinated

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Speaker 11: by the law because that is the thing that gives

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Speaker 11: him proximity to thinking about crimes, just like an alcoholic

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Speaker 11: might work in a bar, or a pedophile might work.

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Speaker 3: In a school.

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Speaker 11: A man who wants to commit murder will surround himself

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Speaker 11: with criminality. But to answer your question, I've always felt

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Speaker 11: that these girls are so beautiful and lovely that he

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Speaker 11: wanted to eradicate something good.

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Speaker 1: You know, when we think about what doctor Bethany just said,

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Speaker 1: the aspect steve, which I know no one likes to

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Speaker 1: think about, but proving this case will require this, the

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Speaker 1: lying in wait aspect, There's no question about it. Yes,

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Speaker 1: the state is said in open court there's no evidence

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Speaker 1: of stalking, but we know his phone turned up along

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Speaker 1: that strip behind the king wrote address multiple times.

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Speaker 3: We know he was watching the house and your daughter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for people who aren't familiar with this area, you

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Speaker 2: don't just randomly take a right turn and find yourself

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Speaker 2: in another state. You purposely have to drive and take

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Speaker 2: like at one time we looked it up, it was

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Speaker 2: like fifteen different intersections and turns to get from Pullman

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Speaker 2: to anywhere close to what are these girls in Ethan work.

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Speaker 2: So it's just not like a random Oh, I just

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Speaker 2: took wrong turn here and I found myself in another state,

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Speaker 2: in a town that I'm not familiar with. This person

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Speaker 2: was very familiar with those areas, and there's not a

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Speaker 2: lot of real reasons why he should be over in

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Speaker 2: those areas that often. And I'm sure that is going

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Speaker 2: to be dug into quite deeply once we get into

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Speaker 2: trial time.

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Speaker 1: When I think about the number of times that we

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Speaker 1: know of, I wonder how many times are there that

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Speaker 1: we don't don't know of that he was in that

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Speaker 1: area watching that house. I heard doctor Bethany say something

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Speaker 1: about him.

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Speaker 3: It's hard for regular people like us to relate to

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Speaker 3: what I'm about to say.

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Speaker 1: A person that wants to eradicate destroy something good. Steve,

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Speaker 1: tell me about your daughter, my girl and boy. You know,

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Speaker 1: I have twins the same age, the same age, and

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine why someone would want to hurt them.

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Speaker 3: Tell me about Killy.

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Speaker 2: Katie was a beautiful friend. She got along with everyone.

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Speaker 2: We never even had to ever have any kind of

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Speaker 2: conflict with the school or teacher or anything along those lines.

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Speaker 2: So and Maggie, I know Maddy exactly, was the same

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Speaker 2: type of person. So I feel like, if if you

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Speaker 2: are a corrupted soul and you want to strike out

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00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 2: of society, you're going to look for somebody who's going

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00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 2: to matter, somebody that the world looks at and says,

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Speaker 2: that's a beautiful person. That's who I want to be

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00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:24,479
Speaker 2: like that. That's that's a pinnacle of achieving being a

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Speaker 2: good human being. So I think that, in the end,

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Speaker 2: is what made them targets. It was their their beauty,

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Speaker 2: their smile, their laughter, their way they treated others. They

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Speaker 2: played by the rules, doing things the way that you

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Speaker 2: want your children and you raise your children to do so.

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Speaker 2: In a way, he was striking out when it was

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Speaker 2: a statement he was making when he picked them. I

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Speaker 2: don't like him looking like he did a white collar crime.

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Speaker 2: This isn't a white color crime, people. This is this

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Speaker 2: is people.

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Speaker 3: You work your.

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Speaker 2: Whole life to get them to go to college. Everybody

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Speaker 2: has a dream of their children going to call. You

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00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 2: trust the community, you trust the school, you send them off,

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Speaker 2: and then they get killed while they're asleep that night.

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Speaker 3: In their beds.

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Speaker 2: You know, we're going to treat this guy like he

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00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 2: just like traded insider trading of his own company stocks.

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00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 2: It's not white collar. The person who did this crime

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00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 2: looked at one of the victims and said, I'm here

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00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 2: to help you. If that's not malice, that's the most

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00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 2: type of evil that you could ever hear of. That

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Speaker 2: shouldn't be rewarded with.

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Speaker 3: The suit and the first haircut every time he came.

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Speaker 2: That's wild. That's wild.

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Speaker 4: We've been told that he does have shopples around his

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00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 4: knees or whatnot, but it's like, you know, that's I

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Speaker 4: don't I don't want.

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Speaker 2: To be hidden.

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Speaker 1: You are hearing mister and missus Gonsalves, the parents of

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00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: Katie Gonsalves, speaking out crime stories, with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 3: Two Steve Gonsalves joining us tonight.

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Speaker 1: This is a chillies father, What do you make of

437
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: Coburger's new look with his uh, let's come metrosexual and

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00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 1: apparently there are female fans of his going crazy online.

439
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: I mean, how bass awkwards is that that this guy

440
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: would have fans demanding hair salon, trim, new clothes every

441
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: time he goes to court, not in a jury's presence.

442
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: It's like he's getting everything he wants. Every demand is

443
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: given to him at his whim.

444
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's part of the reason why we felt the

445
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 2: need to get a lawyer to make sure that everything

446
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 2: was done by the book. And I questioned that everything was,

447
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 2: you know, done on paper or where where were these

448
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 2: rights coming from? Who was making the decisions to give

449
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 2: him the ability to not have normal cuffs. I just

450
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 2: don't think you any father is going to be okay

451
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 2: with their accused mass murderer being treated with any kind

452
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: of preferial treatment whatsoever. I'm not I'm not asking for

453
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 2: him to be in shackles and orange during his trial.

454
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 2: Everybody deserves a fair trial, and an a fair trial

455
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 2: means you look presentable and you don't look like a criminal.

456
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 2: But we're not even there yet. They're trying to delight everything,

457
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 2: and nobody's arguing that they're not trying to, you know,

458
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: push things back and won't asking for more time and

459
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: I need more years And in my mitigation, which for

460
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 2: people don't know, comes at the end of the trial,

461
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 2: but my mitigation expert witness is I need to delay it.

462
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 2: I'm just we're frustrated that he's being treated with these

463
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: these these preferential things, and we can't find them on paper.

464
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 2: You know, me who made this decision? I can hold

465
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 2: that person accountable. You know, these are elected officials. I

466
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 2: can hold people accountable. But if you don't put it

467
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 2: on paper. It makes it very hard for me to

468
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 2: understand who did it. So this new judges is doing

469
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 2: it by the book. Everything I've seen I like and

470
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 2: and that's all I'm asking. We're not asking for him

471
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 2: to come in there with the ball and chain and

472
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 2: you know, a mask over the top of him. We're

473
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 2: just saying, why is this man being treated different than

474
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 2: the criminal that comes in an hour after him or

475
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 2: an hour before him. Why is he being treated one

476
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 2: way as a mass murder and these other individuals are

477
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 2: being treated in a different manner. That's that's what we're

478
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 2: pointing out, and that's what we're using like forms like

479
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: this to bring to people's attention that some of these

480
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 2: things are questionable and we don't like him, we don't

481
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:54,719
Speaker 2: like them one bed.

482
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 3: Have you seen him in court?

483
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 2: Yes, I've definitely seen in court multiple times. The very

484
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 2: first chance I was given an opportunity to see him

485
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 2: in person, I was there. And we're going to keep

486
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 2: that same position where when we can be there and

487
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 2: it's a court hearing of any magnitude of any real

488
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 2: decision being making, we're going to be there.

489
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 3: Did he look at you?

490
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 2: No, I've heard that sometimes he has looked in that direction,

491
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 2: but I've never seen him look at me.

492
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: I want to tell you what happened, mister Gonsalves. When

493
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: I did go to my fiance's murder trial, which was

494
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: a big blur. I thought my dad drove me, but

495
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: my mom also drove me. Had had to take off

496
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: of work, and my dad, at the time was working

497
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: for the railroad his whole life, and my mom was

498
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: payroll clerk, and they would take off to drive me.

499
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, over two hours one way to get there,

500
00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: and I never focused on the defendant. But at the

501
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: end of my testimony, I came down off a very

502
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: tall witness stand, it was equal to the judge, and

503
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: I was walking out, and I looked down at the

504
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: States table and I saw Keith's bloody clothes, which I

505
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: had never seen until that moment. And then I kept

506
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: walking and I came to the defense table, and I

507
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: looked at the lawyers first, because he was flanked by

508
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: a bunch of lawyers, and I looked him in the eyes,

509
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: and they looked down. And then I looked at the defendant,

510
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: I guess for the first time, in the face, in

511
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: the eyes, and he looked down, and none of them

512
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: would look up at me standing at the table.

513
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 3: And then I walked out.

514
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: It was dead quiet in the courtroom and all I

515
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: could hear in my boots on that marble floor walking out.

516
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: And I'm curious went through your mind when you first

517
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 1: saw Brian Coburger.

518
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 2: I don't know where I actually heard it, but I've

519
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 2: always heard, and it's always stuck with me that the

520
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 2: eyes of the opening of a man's soul. So yes,

521
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 2: I wanted to peer through this man's soul and understand

522
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 2: the best that it's possible, what kind of person this

523
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 2: person is. So yeah, it's not easy, but I have

524
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 2: an obligation and I'm not thinking about myself. I'm thinking

525
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 2: about what this person stepped into when he picked my daughter.

526
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's it's a very uncomfortable situation. We get

527
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 2: people requesting all the time for us to sign off

528
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 2: so they can get their hands on these photos, these

529
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 2: a top of the photos, or these photos of the

530
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 2: crime scene. It's disgusting and we've made known.

531
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: Steve, I don't understand who is wanting you to sign

532
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: off to.

533
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 3: Release those photos. I mean, I've never.

534
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 2: I'm assuming there from other countries.

535
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: I've never seen the crime scene photos in my fiance's case.

536
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: I've never tried to see them except I was so

537
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: young when that happened. I had never even been in

538
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: a courthouse. I didn't even know what a defendant and

539
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:29,959
Speaker 1: a plaintive was. I knew nothing. I've never gone back

540
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: to the scene where he was murdered, because for me,

541
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: that just means reliving it. And I have children to

542
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: raise now and I don't want to be in that

543
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 1: again ever. But when you say people want you to

544
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 1: release the crime scene photos of your daughter, what are

545
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 1: they thinking? They're like, they're like vultures circling. It's I

546
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: don't understand that. How dare they?

547
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, clickbait, it's viewers. It's it's disgusting, and we don't

548
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 2: want it. We want nothing to do with any of

549
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 2: that disgusting behavior. And hopefully it's it's not even possible.

550
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 2: But as a just a regular parent, you don't know,

551
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 2: you don't know what's possible. I mean, so much of

552
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 2: this is so new to us, and it doesn't make sense.

553
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 2: So if one day I woke up and there was

554
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 2: pictures of our our children on a newspaper with some

555
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 2: blurred out stuff. I wouldn't even know what to say

556
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 2: or what to do or what my rights would be.

557
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,359
Speaker 2: So yeah, there's definitely people out there right now who

558
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 2: want to make money of a crime, and they know

559
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 2: that that's something that would bring people to them. And

560
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,879
Speaker 2: we're in an attention economy and these people want that.

561
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 2: They actually are hunting at them.

562
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 6: Suspected Idaho students killer Brian Coberger gets a win as

563
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 6: Judge Grant's change a venue request.

564
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 8: His family has attended every hearing in Brian Coberger's prosecution,

565
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 8: but is now forced a fundraise to afford relocating to

566
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 8: Boise for the trial. The family of ten released a

567
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 8: statement expressing their extreme disappointment in the decision, criticizing the

568
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 8: state's failure to cross examine the defense's witnesses effectively. Now

569
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 8: they are hoping to raise enough money to rent a home,

570
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 8: feed themselves, and account for three months of lost work.

571
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:31,320
Speaker 1: Steve gonsalves, this is Cally's father. He's living in pure

572
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: hell every day, waking up to relive the day before this,

573
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: while he's got other children, his wife of course, who

574
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: was suffering as well, and now dealing with having to

575
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: travel to Boise hours away, miss work, set up housekeeping

576
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: there and drag.

577
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 3: Himself to court every day.

578
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: Mister again, please know for what solace it is to

579
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 1: you that you and your family are the object of

580
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:11,919
Speaker 1: so many prayers, and I hate what you are.

581
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 3: About to go through.

582
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: It's a horrible ordeal where you'll have to relive everything

583
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: that happened from the first moment you picked that phone

584
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: up and learn that something was wrong.

585
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 3: Up to the moment in court, and you will be looking.

586
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: Right at Brian Koberger the entire time, if he will

587
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: even meet your gaze, which I doubt.

588
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 3: Why Why is this trial moved?

589
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: I understand to protect it on appeal if we get

590
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: a conviction, But my question to you, the hardship is

591
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 1: going to bring upon you and your family. You've set

592
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: up a gofund me I want to talk about it's important.

593
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 3: That you have the go fund me.

594
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:11,239
Speaker 1: Help Kieli Gounsolves's family attend trial, explain the hardship it

595
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,240
Speaker 1: will bring on you and your family.

596
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 3: State.

597
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 2: I'm literally running to like the equivalent of a train

598
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 2: wreck that has my daughter it and Maddie. I don't

599
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 2: want to be in that courtroom. I don't want to

600
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 2: see and hear what I'm going to have to hear.

601
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 2: But my daughter deserves it. She's beautiful, She's everything to us,

602
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 2: and I have to be there for her. And I

603
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 2: I'm going to be willing to hear and see things

604
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 2: that I never ever thought i'd ever have to be facing.

605
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 2: But I have to. Knowing what I know, I can't

606
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 2: sit on the sideline. I mean, I have a lawyer

607
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 2: who was a prosecutor who prosecuted murder cases, and he said,

608
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 2: nothing is more impact to that jury than to see

609
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 2: firsthand the damage that this person is done to the

610
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 2: people that are important to them.

611
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,320
Speaker 3: Steve, you have to be there.

612
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,879
Speaker 1: I know in your own heart you feel you have

613
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: to be there, but as a felon, a prosecutor over

614
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: a decade, you have to be there, and you have

615
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: to have your wife there, and you have to have

616
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: the entire family there, and they have to be on

617
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: the very front row behind the prosecution. There's no way

618
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 1: for this cup to be taken away from you. There's

619
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: no way you can't show up. You understand that, right

620
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,479
Speaker 1: I do, and.

621
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 2: I don't want to put it on anyone else. But

622
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 2: I hope, I hope all all families find the strength

623
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 2: to at least be there at certain key moments because

624
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 2: they are all these children. People need to understand and

625
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 2: how much pain and how beautiful these people were. And

626
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 2: the only way that you can really show them that

627
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 2: it is through your face, through your emotions, through you

628
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 2: being there supporting them. And yes it's grulish, and yes

629
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 2: it's gross, and we don't want to be there, but

630
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 2: I feel I have to be there. My family will

631
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,800
Speaker 2: be there. But I know we're not the only victims.

632
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 2: And I know that some people think that we're just

633
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 2: trying to draw the attention to ours. It's not that

634
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 2: I just can't ask other people to walk my path.

635
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 2: I can only walk mine and my family I can

636
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 2: walk and coach and counsel them. But I hope everybody

637
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 2: finds some strength to let that courtroom understand what the

638
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 2: world is missing.

639
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: Mister Gonsalvez, thank you for being with us tonight. And

640
00:40:55,719 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine any father doing a better job for

641
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 1: his child than you are doing tonight and every night

642
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: for Kelly, and I'm just very proud that we got

643
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: to speak with you. For those of you watching or

644
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: listening now, please help Kelly Gonsolves his family attend her trial.

645
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: It will be a long and arduous ordeal for them.

646
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: They are leaving their home, they are leaving their jobs

647
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: in doing without, to be in court and fight for her.

648
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: I want to thank mister Gonsalves for being with us.

649
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: I also want to thank you for joining us here.

650
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off, good bye friend,