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Speaker 4: Hey Daniel, you have an electric car?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I drive a Nissan Leaf these days, and last

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Speaker 1: time I had a Chevy bolt, so you.

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Speaker 4: Bolt it from the bolt and to turn.

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Speaker 1: Over a new leaf, I left it behind.

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Speaker 4: Now, how much does it cost to charge up one

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Speaker 4: of those electric cars?

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Speaker 1: Well, that's kind of a charged question, but usually less

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Speaker 1: than ten dollars.

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Speaker 4: Actually, oh wow, you only charge you ten bucks? You

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Speaker 4: charge your car? Do you go to one of those

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Speaker 4: charging stations?

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Speaker 6: No?

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Speaker 1: I usually charge it at home where I'm in charge.

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Speaker 4: So you could charge ten bucks to charge your car

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Speaker 4: where you're in.

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Speaker 1: Charge and charge it on my credit card.

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Speaker 4: You should charge them.

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Speaker 1: I'm positive that won't work.

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Speaker 4: Hi am poor Ham, a cartoonists and the creator of

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Speaker 4: PHP comics.

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Speaker 7: Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor at

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Speaker 1: UC Irvine, and I actually do sell charges back to

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Speaker 1: the electric company.

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Speaker 4: Nice, you have solar panels.

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Speaker 1: I do have solar panels, but unfortunately the electrons I

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Speaker 1: produce don't end up in my car. They have to

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Speaker 1: go back to the company and then I buy fresh

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Speaker 1: electrons from them. I don't have one of those massive

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Speaker 1: home batteries yet.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you don't want old electrons. Let's go kind of stale, right,

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Speaker 4: don't they?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I've had some really vintage electrons created

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Speaker 1: during the Big Bang, and they were pretty tasty.

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Speaker 4: Aren't all electrons created in the I like a big Bang?

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Speaker 1: Some of them might have been, but also electrons are

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Speaker 1: being created all the time, and so some electrons might

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Speaker 1: be very, very fresh, and some of them might have

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Speaker 1: had many, many lives before you.

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Speaker 4: Do you have like an electron somalier that tells you

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Speaker 4: the vintage of electrons? And how do you taste electrons?

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Speaker 4: Do you just stick your tongue in the electrical outlet?

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Speaker 4: Or what advice are we giving the public here?

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Speaker 1: That's a shocking suggestion, Jorge, sticking your tongue in the outlet.

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Speaker 1: I'm positive that's not a good idea, But it is

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Speaker 1: an interesting philosophical question of whether you could taste the

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Speaker 1: age of an electron or even somehow tell its age.

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Speaker 1: We don't think so, because they're quantum particles, so they're

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Speaker 1: all identical. Every electron is the same as every other electron,

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Speaker 1: and so there's no way to tell if an electron

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Speaker 1: is fourteen billion years old or fourteen billiseconds old.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it would be kind of rude to ask anyways,

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Speaker 4: But welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe,

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Speaker 4: a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: We try to be positive about all the charged questions

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Speaker 1: there are about the age of the universe, how big

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Speaker 1: it's been getting, and what it's been eating. We like

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Speaker 1: to think about everything involved in understanding the universe, from

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Speaker 1: the deep nature of the fabric of space itself all

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Speaker 1: the way up to the shape and size of the

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Speaker 1: universe and everything fascinating in between. We want to tickle

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Speaker 1: the curiosity that we know is inside your mind and

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Speaker 1: make you wonder at this marvelous universe. Why is it

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Speaker 1: this way and not some other way.

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Speaker 4: That's right because it is an electrifying universe, full of

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Speaker 4: amazing things happening in it, things coming together, things being

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Speaker 4: pushed apart, And we like to zap all of that

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Speaker 4: knowledge into your brain so that you get a small buzz.

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Speaker 1: And electricity is one of the oldest topics that humans

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Speaker 1: have been thinking about. After all, it's obviously out there

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Speaker 1: in the world. You don't need a superconducting super collider

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Speaker 1: in order to study electricity and magnetism. You just need

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Speaker 1: to watch a rainstorm and look at lightning, or zap

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Speaker 1: yourself as you walk across a carpet. So humans have

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Speaker 1: been aware of this strange phenomena of electricity for a

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Speaker 1: long long time.

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Speaker 4: And wait, wait, wait, wait, they had electricity back in

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Speaker 4: the steam age. How did they power their light bulbs?

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Speaker 1: You know, almost all electrical generations still uses steam. It's

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Speaker 1: incredible how versatile the steam engine really is?

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Speaker 4: That what the electrons are always wet.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on with the plumbing in

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Speaker 1: your house that your electrons are wet. But that does

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Speaker 1: not sound like a good combination.

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Speaker 4: Neither not not so much wet as steamy. I get

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Speaker 4: steamy electrons.

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Speaker 1: Well, electricity has been something that's been tickling the minds

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Speaker 1: of humans and physicists and proto physicists for a long

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Speaker 1: long time. You know, watching a rainstorm and wondering like, wow,

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Speaker 1: what is that crazy? Zapping all the way up to

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Speaker 1: Benjamin Franklin trying to understand like what's going on. It's

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Speaker 1: been something we've been working on for a long time.

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Speaker 1: We've made a lot of progress, and yet there's still

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Speaker 1: really basic questions about how it works.

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Speaker 4: You know, the origin of the word electricity. Like I

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Speaker 4: wonder when humans started to think of electricity as electricity

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Speaker 4: because I imagine, you know, for millions of years we

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Speaker 4: saw lightning, but we didn't think it was anything different

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Speaker 4: other than light or you know, strips of light.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think there's a long history of crazy ideas

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Speaker 1: to explain what we see out there, and it wasn't

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Speaker 1: until a few hundred years ago that people tried to

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Speaker 1: be sort of systematic about it and come up with

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Speaker 1: like something you could describe as a theory to explain

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Speaker 1: what was going on. You know, before that we had

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Speaker 1: basically mythology Zeus throwing lightning bolts in this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 4: I see, so Zeus was the first electric company.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if Zeus's charged for lightning bolts, right, I

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Speaker 1: don't know.

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Speaker 4: They are pretty spectacular to look at, but anyways, electricity

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Speaker 4: is one of those old subjects that humans have been

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Speaker 4: thinking about and wondering about, and apparently it's still something

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Speaker 4: that we wonder about today.

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Speaker 1: That's right. We have graduated from thinking about electricity is

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Speaker 1: the product of an angry God to thinking about it

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Speaker 1: as a strange, invisible fluid that flows through matter. To

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Speaker 1: modern itea is that electricity is carried by tiny, little

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Speaker 1: discrete charged particles, each of which carry this strange quantum

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Speaker 1: label of electric charge.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't sound like we've progressed much there, from saying

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Speaker 4: electricity is something that God throws out from the sky

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Speaker 4: to something that little tiny particles have.

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Speaker 1: Well, maybe emotionally we've progressed. You know, we don't think

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Speaker 1: electrons are as angry as Zeus was, so you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's just a calmer theory of the universe hmmm.

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Speaker 4: Or maybe you just don't know if your electrons are

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Speaker 4: mad at you. It could be, especially if you ask

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Speaker 4: them their age.

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Speaker 1: But that means that all electrons in the universe would

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Speaker 1: have to be mad at you. That's like a whole

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Speaker 1: universe filled with screaming, mad electrons. That's kind of terrifying.

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Speaker 4: Maybe it's only the ones that you use for your car.

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Speaker 4: They don't like where you're going. The ones we put

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Speaker 4: to work, yeah, exactly, just because you don't want to walk, Daniel,

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Speaker 4: even if I'm.

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Speaker 1: Walking, that uses electrons. Right, there's electrons in everything. Anytime

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Speaker 1: you do some work, that's going to be electrons involved.

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Speaker 1: So that's why the electron labor union is so powerful.

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Speaker 4: I wonder how they hold together. But there is a

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Speaker 4: lot we don't understand about the universe, and it's kind

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Speaker 4: of surprising to think about the idea that there are

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Speaker 4: things we don't understand about electricity. I feel like the

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Speaker 4: electricity is something that we use every day. I mean,

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Speaker 4: we're using it right now to record this, and also

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Speaker 4: everyone is using this to listen to this podcast, and

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Speaker 4: yet there are things we still don't know about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you don't actually have to understand the universe

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Speaker 1: in order to use it, right. You took advantage of

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Speaker 1: gravity holding you under the Earth's surface long before anybody

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Speaker 1: had any understanding of gravity, and even for hundreds of

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Speaker 1: years when we had a pretty deep misunderstanding of gravity.

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Speaker 1: So it's just sort of part of the process of

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Speaker 1: science to develop these descriptions of what we see, try

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Speaker 1: to explain them, and then refine them as time goes on.

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Speaker 1: There will always be open questions things we don't understand.

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Speaker 1: What I hope that listeners appreciate is that some of

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Speaker 1: these questions, some of these things we still don't understand,

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Speaker 1: are really pretty basic and have to do fundamentally with

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Speaker 1: like the nature of electricity? What is it? Anyway?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and so today on the program we'll be tackling

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Speaker 4: could there be particles with different electric charges?

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Speaker 1: That's right? We know about a few different kinds of

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Speaker 1: particles with a few different kinds of electric charges, But

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Speaker 1: the curious person always wonders like, well, why is that? It?

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Speaker 1: Is there more on the list? Is the universe capable

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Speaker 1: of doing other things? And it just isn't? Or are

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Speaker 1: there other particles out there with really weird electric charges? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I guess when we say different electric charges, we mean

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Speaker 4: different charges than the electron, right, Like could there be

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Speaker 4: aniparticle out there with the charge that's not the same

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Speaker 4: as the electron?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we actually do have a few examples of that, right,

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Speaker 1: Like quarks have strange charges like two thirds and minus

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Speaker 1: one third, and the electron is this charge negative one?

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Speaker 1: But it's interesting to think about, like could there be

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Speaker 1: particles with charges of like one millionth or one billionth

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Speaker 1: or like pie or other strange numbers? There seems to

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Speaker 1: me like a pattern to the electric charges or they

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Speaker 1: seem to prefer these sort of discrete units. But we

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Speaker 1: don't really understand why that is.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I mean, we're asking today whether you can have

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Speaker 4: a particle with like point zero, zero, zero one of

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Speaker 4: the charge of the electron?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, is that possible? To do those particles exist? What

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Speaker 1: would it mean for the universe if they did or

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Speaker 1: they didn't?

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Speaker 4: But you said that, we know about particles that have

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Speaker 4: one third of the charge of the electron. That's a

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Speaker 4: quark or some of the quarks.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Some of the corks have charged one third,

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Speaker 1: and some of the corks have charged two third. Basically

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Speaker 1: every particle we've ever seen either has zero charge or

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Speaker 1: some multiple of one third of the electrons charge. I see.

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Speaker 4: So today we're asking if you can go smaller than that, Like,

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Speaker 4: could there be particles with less than a third of

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Speaker 4: the electron charge?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? One fifth, one ninth, one billionth even are there limits?

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Speaker 1: Is there a rule that prevents a particle from having

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Speaker 1: some super tiny electric charge but not zero?

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Speaker 4: And I assume that's not a question with a small answer,

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Speaker 4: and would maybe even answer that will shock.

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Speaker 1: Us, that's right. It's a small question with big consequences

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Speaker 1: for the philosophy of electric charges.

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Speaker 4: As usual, we were wondering how many people out there

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Speaker 4: had thought about this question or wondered whether particles can

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Speaker 4: have tiny electric charges.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much to our list of volunteers who

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Speaker 1: answer these questions for everybody else's enjoyment and education. If

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Speaker 1: you would like to contribute your voice to this segment,

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Speaker 1: please don't be shy. We don't discriminate. We let everybody participate.

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Speaker 1: Write to me too questions at Danielandjorge dot com.

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Speaker 4: So think about it for a second. Have you heard

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Speaker 4: or think that electrons can have tiny electric charges? Here's

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Speaker 4: what people have to say.

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Speaker 1: Yep, why not? I will accept particles of any colo.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure there's no discriminating against fractional electric charges.

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Speaker 8: I would guess that particles with stractional electrical charges would

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Speaker 8: be possible, given that in chemistry they have studiometry, and

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Speaker 8: so it maybe does not reel out the fact that

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Speaker 8: this could be the same for some time a part of.

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Speaker 9: This, I have heard half spin as a quantum property,

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Speaker 9: but never a half electrical charge. So I would say no,

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Speaker 9: But since you're asking it, maybe yes.

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Speaker 5: My guess would be probably. I'm sure there's a law

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Speaker 5: of physics it says no, you have to be a

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Speaker 5: plus or a minus or no charge. But I don't

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Speaker 5: see why you couldn't have a fractional charge. I suppose, so, yeah,

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Speaker 5: I think that is the case today.

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Speaker 6: I think we have quarks with like one third charge

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Speaker 6: or two thirds charge, and I think the actual charge

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Speaker 6: of an electron is some crazy fractional number and we've

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Speaker 6: just chosen to assign it the value of one for convenience.

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Speaker 6: So yeah, I think that's possible.

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Speaker 5: Well, isn't charges caused by particles?

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Speaker 6: Like aren't electrons considered particles?

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Speaker 5: Am I getting that wrong?

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing no.

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Speaker 7: Well, I'm going to walk into the obvious trap here

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Speaker 7: and say that I think no particles cannot have tiny

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Speaker 7: fractional electric charges. I think that an electric charge is

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Speaker 7: either present, positive or negative or absent, and is an

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Speaker 7: indivisible quality. I'm hoping, of course, that, true to the

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Speaker 7: nature of this podcast, this obvious trap will turn out

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Speaker 7: by the end of the podcast to have been an

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Speaker 7: elaborate double bluff and vindicate my ignorance.

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Speaker 4: All right, A lot of people said yes, because, of course,

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Speaker 4: maybe we asked the question wrong.

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Speaker 1: I think that most people don't even imagine the existence

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Speaker 1: of like particles with one millionth of the electric charge.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's not something that I stay op at night

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Speaker 4: usually wondering about. I mean, maybe one thousands, but not

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Speaker 4: a million.

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Speaker 1: There's some limit there. You're like, one thousands is reasonable,

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Speaker 1: one millionth this is crazy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, that is what I think about it night.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, a way to explore the universe is

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Speaker 1: just to try to be creative, to think about, like,

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Speaker 1: what assumptions are we making because we've only seen certain examples,

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Speaker 1: what conclusions are we drawing because we've only seen a

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Speaker 1: subset of what the universe can actually do. So sometimes

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Speaker 1: it takes a little bit of creativity to like break

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Speaker 1: out of the box we've been living in and wonder

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Speaker 1: what could be outside that box. Sometimes we don't even

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Speaker 1: realize the boxes that we are in. So I love

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Speaker 1: this question precisely because a lot of people are like, huh,

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Speaker 1: that's interesting. I never even considered that there could be

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Speaker 1: other kinds of particles with weird electric charges in them.

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Speaker 1: And that's what makes it exciting, because that's the best

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Speaker 1: moment in physics when we realize we've been overlooking something

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Speaker 1: and maybe it shows us something new about the real

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Speaker 1: universe out there.

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Speaker 4: I wonder if maybe what we're asking here really is like,

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Speaker 4: are there maybe particles with weird electric charges that we

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Speaker 4: didn't know had weird electric charges? So that kind of

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Speaker 4: what we're asking, like, maybe there are things that there

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Speaker 4: are particles out there we just haven't seen them or

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Speaker 4: known about them that actually have these weird charges we

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Speaker 4: just haven't noticed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. One possibility is that there's a new kind

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Speaker 1: of particle out there with weird electric charges we just

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Speaker 1: haven't noticed yet. The other possibility is that maybe some

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Speaker 1: of the particles we do know don't actually have zero

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Speaker 1: electric charge, they have very very very very small electric charges.

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Speaker 4: All right, well, let's jump into this topic, Daniel. Let's

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Speaker 4: start with the basics. What is an electric charge?

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Speaker 1: Well, we don't really know, all right.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for joining us, See you next time.

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Speaker 1: It's fun to joke about that, because that really is

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Speaker 1: the answer. We don't actually know what an electric charge

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Speaker 1: is physically. It's part of our description of what we

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Speaker 1: see happen in the universe. So we notice that some

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Speaker 1: particles that accelerated if you put them in an electric

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Speaker 1: field and other particles don't. Right, And we even have

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Speaker 1: an equation that describes it.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: Force is equal to charge times the field strength. So

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Speaker 1: if a particle is accelerated when you put it in

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Speaker 1: an electric field, we say that particle has charged. If

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Speaker 1: a particle ignores the electric field, we say the particle

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Speaker 1: has no charge. And the bigger the charge of the particle,

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Speaker 1: the greater the force that it feels. But it's just

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Speaker 1: sort of like our description of what we see. We

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Speaker 1: put this into our mathematical story about the universe. That

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean we know like what it.

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Speaker 4: Is, right, But it's even more confusing than that because

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Speaker 4: kind of like, how do you define an electric field? Right?

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Speaker 4: Isn't an electric field defined as how the or this

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Speaker 4: change in a particle that has charge?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly right. We say the fields are generated by

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Speaker 1: charged particles, but we don't ever even see the fields themselves. Right,

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Speaker 1: You can't observe a field. The only thing you can

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Speaker 1: observe is the field pushing on particles. So if you

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Speaker 1: want to like get down to the nitty gritty, what

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Speaker 1: do we actually see is that some particles push on

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Speaker 1: each other, and we have this intermediate thing we call

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Speaker 1: a field, which allows particles that are far away from

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Speaker 1: each other to push on each other. But fundamentally, we say,

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Speaker 1: some particles push on each other and some particles pull

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Speaker 1: on each other, and the charges in the fields, it's

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Speaker 1: just sort of like our mathematic story of what's happening

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Speaker 1: there to describe what we see.

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Speaker 4: So maybe you would define a charge more accurately, as

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Speaker 4: you know, if you have an electron here and an

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Speaker 4: electron there, they're going to push against each other, and

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Speaker 4: that push sort of depends on this thing that you

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Speaker 4: call a charge.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you can put a label on every kind of

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Speaker 1: particle and that label tells you how to predict whether

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Speaker 1: the particle will be pushed by another particle or its

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Speaker 1: field equivalently, and that works, and it works really, really

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Speaker 1: really well. It works incredibly well. It's one of the

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Speaker 1: best tested theories we have in physics. We can do

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Speaker 1: pages and pages of calculations to predict how electrons will

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Speaker 1: push on each other and how they will shoot photons

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Speaker 1: at each other, and we can do experiments to test

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Speaker 1: those predictions, and the experiment and the prediction agreed to

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Speaker 1: like eight or nine decimal places. It's really extraordinary. How

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Speaker 1: accurate it is. So you look at that theory and

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Speaker 1: you're like, hmm, well, if it's so accurate, maybe it's

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Speaker 1: really describing what happens in the universe. Maybe this thing

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Speaker 1: we invented, this idea of charge ar is a property

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Speaker 1: of the particle itself, not just part of our story

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Speaker 1: about the particle.

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Speaker 4: Right. It's sort of like mass is for gravity. Right, Like,

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Speaker 4: if you have two particles out there in space, they're

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Speaker 4: going to attract each other depending on this thing about

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Speaker 4: them called mass. And that's kind of the same for charge, right, Like,

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Speaker 4: if you have two particles, they're going to either attract

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Speaker 4: each other or repel each other by a certain amount

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Speaker 4: depending on whether they have this thing called charge.

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Speaker 1: Yes, excellent, exactly, And in particle physics we generalize this

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Speaker 1: concept of charge. Do not just refer to electromagnetism, as

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Speaker 1: you say. You can think about gravity in terms of

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Speaker 1: gravitational charges or masses, and you can think about the

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Speaker 1: strong force in terms of strong nuclear charges on quarks.

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Speaker 1: Those are even more complicated because instead of having two

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Speaker 1: values like plus or minus, have three values red, green,

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Speaker 1: and blue. The weak force also has a kind of

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Speaker 1: charge that we call weak hypercharge. So in a more

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Speaker 1: general sense, charge tells you whether a particle feels a force.

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Speaker 1: Like the electron has an electric charge, but it has

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Speaker 1: no strong nuclear charge. It doesn't feel the strong nuclear force.

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Speaker 1: A quark has both an electric charge and a strong

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Speaker 1: nuclear charge, and so it feels both forces. So really,

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Speaker 1: charge in general is a label about saying whether or

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Speaker 1: not a particle feels that force, and it's something philosophically

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Speaker 1: we like attached to the particle. We say this is

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Speaker 1: a property of this particle. The electron has the charge. Physically,

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Speaker 1: I don't really know what that means, like wherein the

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Speaker 1: electron is it. It's just sort of this like ineffable

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Speaker 1: quantum label we attach to it. We don't really know

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Speaker 1: where it comes from, like what generates the actual charge itself?

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Speaker 4: Well, I think in quantum theory. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 4: But it also because it sort of has to do

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Speaker 4: whether a particle interacts with certain quantum fields or not, right, Like,

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Speaker 4: maybe that's another way to define it. If the electron

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Speaker 4: doesn't interact with the strong force field, then it just

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Speaker 4: doesn't have a strong charge.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's another way of saying the same thing.

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Speaker 1: You can think about all these quantum pictures of the world,

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Speaker 1: either in terms of particles that are pushing on each

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Speaker 1: other or in terms of fields, because remember, these particles

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Speaker 1: are actually just little wiggles in quantum fields, and those

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Speaker 1: fields can sometimes talk to each other. So, for example,

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Speaker 1: the electromagnetic field, for which the photon is a particle,

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Speaker 1: can interact with or talk to any field that has charges.

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Speaker 1: So the electron field of which the electron is the

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Speaker 1: wiggle is the particle, right, that will interact with the

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Speaker 1: electromagnetic field, and so will the field of the w

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Speaker 1: boson because it has electric charge. So as you say,

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Speaker 1: the fields that interact with a certain force, we say

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Speaker 1: their particles have that charge, and the fields that don't

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Speaker 1: we say that particles don't have that charge. So, for example,

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Speaker 1: the neutrino field, neutrinos have no electric charge. Neutrino fields

440
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 1: and electromagnetic fields totally ignore each other.

441
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 4: Right, So then maybe you can define charges being like

442
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 4: whether or not a particle interacts with the electromagnetic field.

443
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, for the electric charge, and in terms of like

444
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 1: particle theory, they often talk about it as coupling. The

445
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 1: electric charge is the way that the photon field couples

446
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 1: to the electron field. How those two fields sort of

447
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 1: like let energy slide back and forth between them.

448
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 4: I feel like we're getting a little steamy out there.

449
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 4: Are we back to talking about steamy electrons?

450
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 1: Not steaming and not safe for workway? You know, we're

451
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 1: just talking about connections. We're just talking about energy sliding

452
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:31,680
Speaker 1: from one kind of field to the other.

453
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,879
Speaker 4: All right, Well, it sounds like we kind of have

454
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 4: a definition of what charge is. We just don't know

455
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 4: where it comes from. Kind of right, That's the thing, Like,

456
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 4: we don't know why some particles interact with the electropa

457
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 4: neet fields and why some don't.

458
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 1: That's right. We have a very effective description of it,

459
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,640
Speaker 1: but we don't know why some particles have it, what

460
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 1: the rules are for what charges you are allowed to have,

461
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 1: and where it comes from at all.

462
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess some particles just have that spark in

463
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 4: others step.

464
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 1: Some particles just have a positive attitude.

465
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,679
Speaker 4: All right, Well, let's get into a little bit of

466
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 4: the history of this idea of an electric charge. Where

467
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 4: did it come from? How did humans start to figure

468
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,439
Speaker 4: this out? And then let's get into the bigger question

469
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 4: of whether electrons or things with electrical charge can have tiny,

470
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 4: almost imperceptible charges. But first, let's take a quick break.

471
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,479
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539
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Speaker 4: Or right, we're talking about charges, and we're charging ahead

540
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 4: here with this topic, talking about whether electrons or charge

541
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 4: particles that have like the fuel electricity, can have electrical

542
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 4: charges that maybe have been escaping or notice for thousands

543
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 4: of years. So Daniel, maybe step us through here a

544
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 4: little bit on the history of charges. When do we

545
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 4: start noticing that some things have electrical charge?

546
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: So we certainly had noticed the properties of electricity for

547
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: a long long time. Right, static electricity and lightning, these

548
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: are things everybody was aware of and until around the

549
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: mid seventeen hundreds, the idea to explain these things was

550
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: dominated by concepts like effluvium or there's basically this two

551
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 1: fluid theory of electricity and magnetism. It was like this

552
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 1: invisible fluid that flowed through objects, to different kinds of

553
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: invisible liquids flowing through objects, one positive, one negative, that

554
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 1: could cancel each other out.

555
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 4: Right, because as you said, I imagine that this is

556
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 4: something we've noticed for maybe hundreds of thousands of years.

557
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 4: I imagine, you know, even caveman would get you know,

558
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 4: static electricity in their hair would stand up right, But

559
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 4: for them it was probably just you know, magic, or

560
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 4: they had no way to grabt that there would be

561
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 4: a reason for that.

562
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: Exactly in the process of science is one of trying

563
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 1: to develop, like an explanation for these things. How can

564
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: we unify different phenomena that we see, the static electricity

565
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: in your hair and the lightning in the sky, Which

566
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: of these things are related and which of these are

567
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: totally different phenomena. So that's the process of physics, right

568
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 1: sorting out all the phenomena we see and trying to

569
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: coalesce them, boil them down. Into a few simple explanations

570
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: and try to find the relationship between those to give like,

571
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: you know, a single description of everything that's happening. And

572
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: so this really is an ancient process and it's a

573
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: great example of the whole process of physics of trying

574
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: to coalesce many different things down into one explanation.

575
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,479
Speaker 4: But I think you're saying that maybe we did have

576
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 4: sort of some idea that it was something that flowed

577
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 4: between things.

578
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it was sort of considered to be a liquid.

579
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: We didn't have the idea of particles yet. It wasn't

580
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: until you know, the late eighteen hundreds when JJ Thompson

581
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: discovered the electron, that we thought of it as like

582
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: isolated to a little particle. It was sort of more

583
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: similar to early concepts of heat. You know, this liquid

584
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: that flowed between things. It's really fascinating because the original

585
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: idea was of two liquids, one positive and one negative,

586
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: which could flow between things and they could cancel each

587
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: other out. It was mostly trying to explain like electrical

588
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: attraction and repulsion and that theory. You know, it sounds

589
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: right because we know that there are protons and there

590
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: are electrons. It's actually not quite right because the protons

591
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: don't really flow. Right. What happens with electricity in objects,

592
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: it says the electrons that are moving, and so it's

593
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: actually in the mid seventeen hundreds, with Ben Franklin came

594
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: up with the one fluid theory of electricity. Basically, there's

595
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: just one kind of thing that's moving around. Now we know,

596
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: of course those are electrons, and that's a more accurate

597
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: description of what's actually happening, but it sort of ignores

598
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: the protons and the positive charge. So it's sort of

599
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 1: fascinating from that point of view.

600
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 4: Historically, I think you're saying that maybe like our early

601
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 4: ideas about electricity was that it was sort of like

602
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 4: a fluid, I guess, some sort of like magical fluid

603
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 4: in a way, and that maybe at first we thought

604
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 4: there were positive fluids negative fluids, but more actually, when

605
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 4: you see electricity on an everyday basis, it's usually the

606
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 4: negative electro charges that are flowing around.

607
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: Exactly in a material, it's the electrons that are moving.

608
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: The protons are usually in the crystal and can't really

609
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: move very well. The nuclei don't flow, so it really

610
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,959
Speaker 1: is the electrons that are moving and Ben Franklin did

611
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: all these experiments with cloths and glass rods, and of

612
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: course his famous experiments with lightning. He's one of the

613
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: first people to try to explain all these things in

614
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: terms of a single phenomenon.

615
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 4: Did he use one hundred dollars bills? Also?

616
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: He was all about the benjamins for sure. But then

617
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: it was in the late eighteen hundreds that JG. Thompson

618
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: did his experiments with cathode ray tubes and he showed

619
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: that there were these tiny little dots of matter that

620
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: carried charar with them. He showed they could be deflected

621
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: by electric fields. We have a whole episode about the

622
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: discovery of the electron if you wanted to dig into

623
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: the details of that one. But it was a really

624
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: interesting moment because he showed where the charge was. It

625
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: went from being like this weird and visible not quite

626
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: magic but imperceptible fluid, to being isolated to these little bits.

627
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,959
Speaker 1: There were something out there that was carrying these charges.

628
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: We'd like identified a little bit of matter. It had

629
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: mass and it had electric charge to it, so that

630
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: made it like concrete in a new way.

631
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 4: The wait he could actually see individual electrons. How do

632
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 4: you see an electron.

633
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: Well, he couldn't see an individual electron, but he could

634
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: see them land on a screen in his cathoid ray

635
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: You know, cathoid ray tube is basically the way TVs

636
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: used to work. They have a little gun of electrons

637
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: that would shoot at the screen, and you would have

638
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: fields that bend them so they would shoot at different

639
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: places at the screen it would scan across. And that's

640
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: not very different from his original setup where he had

641
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: a little hot bit of metal that boiled off electrons

642
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: and then they were accelerated by a field and then

643
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: by another field. So what he showed was that you

644
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: could bend their path using fields, which meant that they

645
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: were carrying the charge, and he could change where they

646
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 1: landed by changing those fields. Really clever set of experiments.

647
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 4: Right, But I wonder if he thought maybe there were

648
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 4: just droplets of this fluid, right Like he maybe didn't

649
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 4: think of them as particles necessarily because the quantum idea

650
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 4: wasn't around yet.

651
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: That's right, But he actually is the one who came

652
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: up with this concept that these things were all isolated

653
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: on these tiny little dots. He didn't use the word particle.

654
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: He invented this other word called the corpuscule, which he

655
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,479
Speaker 1: hoped was going to take off and that we'd all

656
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: be corpuscular physicists by now, But fortunately that name was

657
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: dropped later by other people. But he definitely identified these

658
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: things as tiny little dots with mass and with charge

659
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: bundled together into the same physical location. It's really the

660
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: first moment where we started putting these labels on tiny

661
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: dots of matter, sort of the invention of the concept

662
00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: of a particle.

663
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 4: There did he call it an electron or when did

664
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 4: the name come into use?

665
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: He definitely called them corpus gules. The name electron came later,

666
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: which I don't know. I'd prefer the word electron two corpuscule.

667
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: It's really amountable. And it was Milken a few decades

668
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: later who did his famous oil drop experiments where he

669
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: showed that the charge is discrete, that you couldn't have

670
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: like one and a half charges or two point seven charges,

671
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: but you could have like one, two, or three. These

672
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: very precise experiments that were balancing various forces and showing

673
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: that they were integer quantities of them. So at that

674
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: point we knew that charge was a thing, that it

675
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: was attached to these tiny little particles and that their

676
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: charges were discrete. You didn't have like some particles running

677
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: around with one point two to seven charge and other

678
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: ones with zero point eight nine. You either had one

679
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: electron or two electrons or three electrons. You know, this

680
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: is around the same time that quantum mechanics was being developed,

681
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: when we had the understanding that like light was packets

682
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: of photons. You couldn't have like one point two of them.

683
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: So the whole idea of discritization was sort of taking

684
00:33:59,160 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: over physics.

685
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 4: Hmmm, sounds indiscreet, but I guess my question is how

686
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 4: did Milliken figure this out? I mean, you're talking about

687
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 4: the early nineteen hundreds. How did they have experiments that

688
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 4: could measure things down to the one electron level?

689
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: This is a really hard experiment to do. He took

690
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: little drops of oil and he sprayed them out of

691
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 1: a little sprayer which basically strips them of some electrons,

692
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: which basically ionizes them, and so now they have electric charge.

693
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 1: And let them fall through this little chamber until they

694
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: reached terminal velocity, and then he turned on an electric

695
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: field to try to make them levitate, and by tweaking

696
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 1: the electric field he could find exactly the right force

697
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,439
Speaker 1: he needed to balance the downward going velocity. He could

698
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: make these particles float, essentially, and what he noticed was

699
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: you needed a certain field or like twice that field

700
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: or three times that field, which he hypothesized told him

701
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 1: like how much each drop had been ionized. So essentially

702
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: he was measuring like how much electric force you needed

703
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 1: to levitate these drops, and he noticed that it always

704
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: came into your quantities. So he wasn't studying individual electrons.

705
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: You couldn't see individual electrons, but he was studying the

706
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 1: overall electric charge of these little drops of oil.

707
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 4: But that's sort of only works if the each drop

708
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 4: is the size of one electron, right, Like if you

709
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 4: have a whole cluster of things with electrons, would you

710
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 4: still notice that kind of discrete electric field.

711
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can have a whole oil drop. But what

712
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: he's measuring is the ionization of that drop, like essentially,

713
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: how many non neutral particles are in that drop, because

714
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,399
Speaker 1: that's what's going to affect the force that the drop

715
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: feels when you put it in an electric field. So

716
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: he was noticing that you could ionize these drops by

717
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: one unit or two units or seven units, but not

718
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 1: by three point two units.

719
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 4: Interesting, all right, Well, I think that's kind of the

720
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,720
Speaker 4: general history of electrons, right, And that's where the idea

721
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 4: of the electron took off, right, as a discrete thing,

722
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 4: and then the rest is history.

723
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: The rest is history. And now we regularly produce electrons

724
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: in our collider and study them in gory detail. In

725
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: the mid nineteen five we had quantum electrodynamics, this theory

726
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 1: of photons and electrons as oscillating quantum fields, which is

727
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: basically the modern story of electromagnetism.

728
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 4: Right, Well, let's get to our question of whether electrons

729
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 4: or other particles can have charges that are smaller than

730
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 4: one third of the charge of an electron. I guess, Daniel,

731
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 4: why are we asking this question? Or I guess what

732
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 4: do we know about charge in general?

733
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 1: So what we know is that electrons have charge minus one,

734
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: which is just something we assigned, right, We could have

735
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: given electrons any charge. It's really just totally arbitrary, and

736
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: that protons have the opposite charge. Protons, of course, are

737
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,760
Speaker 1: made of quarks, and those quarks have the weirdest charges

738
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: we know. They have charges like plus or minus two

739
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: thirds or plus or minus one third. There are also

740
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: particles out there nutrinos that have charge zero. So all

741
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,399
Speaker 1: the fundamental particles that we know about have charges zero,

742
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: one thirds, two thirds, or like the electron, they have

743
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: effectively charge one. These units are arbitrary, but everything seems

744
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 1: to have a charge that a multiple of one third

745
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: of the electric charge. That seems to be the minimum

746
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: charge out there. Of the zero, of course, which you

747
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: can consider still a multiple of one third. There are

748
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: no particles out there that we've seen that have charged

749
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: like two sevenths or fourteen ninety firsts or you know,

750
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: pi times the electrons.

751
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 4: I guess, just to be clear, there's only four particles

752
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,240
Speaker 4: that we know about that have electric charge. Is that true?

753
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: Well, there are the four kinds of fermions, right, electrons, neutrinos,

754
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: up quarks, and down quarks. There are also the other

755
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,720
Speaker 1: generations like the charm, the top, the muon the towel.

756
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: Those all have the same electric charges as the base particles.

757
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, there are four kinds of fermions, and each

758
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 1: one has a different charge. Right.

759
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:45,720
Speaker 4: So I guess what I mean is that we haven't

760
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 4: found any other particles other than these four and their

761
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 4: generational cousins that have electric charge right that we know of.

762
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: The only other particle with electric charge is the W.

763
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: The W is one of the fourth particles of the

764
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 1: weak force, and interestingly, it also has electric chart. So

765
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 1: there's two of those. There's the W plus and the

766
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: W minus, so those subcharges plus one and minus one.

767
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 1: Those are the only other charge particles out there. The

768
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 1: other particles like the Higgs boson and the photon and

769
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: the gluon and the z boson, all of those have

770
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: zero electric charge.

771
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 4: The W particle also has electric chart, and it's exactly

772
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 4: the same as the electron.

773
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 1: It's exactly the same or opposite of the electron. And

774
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 1: that's important because the W and the electron interact with

775
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: each other. For example, a W can decay to an

776
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: electron and a neutrino, and that conserves electric charge. You

777
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: start out with charge minus one, you end up with

778
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 1: an electron with charge minus one and a neutrino with

779
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 1: charge zero. So electric chart starts at minus one ends

780
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: at minus one. It's conserved. That's something else really fascinating

781
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: that we know about electric charte is that it can't

782
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 1: be created or destroyed. It's always conserved in the universe.

783
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 4: Now is that a coincidence that the W happens to

784
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 4: have the exact same charge as the electron.

785
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: I don't think we know the answer to that, but

786
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: if it did have exactly the same charge as the electron,

787
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 1: then it wouldn't be able to interact with the electron.

788
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: Like the W had a charge of one point two,

789
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 1: then it couldn't decay to an electron and a neutrino

790
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 1: because charge is conserved, and so basically it would mean

791
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: that it couldn't interact with our kind of matter, and

792
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: then it wouldn't participate in anything that we knew about,

793
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 1: and so it might exist in the universe but not

794
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: be something we could see or interact with. Right, And

795
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 1: so the fact that the W has the same charge

796
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: as the electron is what allows it to participate in

797
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 1: our part of the universe, and so that's the reason

798
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: we know about it. So it might be that there

799
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: are particles out there with weird charges that don't interact

800
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: in the same way as our particles, and that's exactly

801
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 1: what people are looking for.

802
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 4: M I see. That's I think this gets into kind

803
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 4: of the heart of what we're asking here today and

804
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 4: why maybe we may not have observed other particles that

805
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 4: have different terms, because I know we talked about before

806
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 4: how the idea that the proton has exactly the opposite

807
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 4: charge over an electron is sort of a coincidence in

808
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,720
Speaker 4: the universe, and if that was any different, we wouldn't

809
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 4: have all those things we have today like us.

810
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: That's right. It's sort of explained and sort of not explained, right.

811
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: It's not explained in the sense that, in principle it

812
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: could have been something else, right. It could have been

813
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: that the quarks don't have exactly one third and two

814
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: thirds the charge of the electron, so when you put

815
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 1: them together you get a proton that's not exactly the

816
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 1: opposite charge of the electron. That could work in physics,

817
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,919
Speaker 1: but it's explained in the sense that that universe would

818
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: be so different from ours that it's sort of impossible

819
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: to even imagine what that would be like. Would be

820
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: very different from the universe we experience. So to have

821
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: a universe like ours requires that balance. That doesn't mean

822
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: we know why that balance exists, right, So it's a

823
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:46,879
Speaker 1: really fascinating question philosophically.

824
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, well, let's get into this question of

825
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 4: whether charges can be different than the ones from the electron.

826
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 4: It's specifically much smaller than one third the charge of

827
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 4: an electron. Like, maybe there are particles out there with

828
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 4: that kind of charge, just haven't seen them. So let's

829
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,439
Speaker 4: get into that question. But first, let's take another quick break.

830
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth

831
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt, you're probably

832
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite.

833
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: But the people in the dairy industry are. US Dairy

834
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: has set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse

835
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working

836
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

837
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

838
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four

839
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 1: times the same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes

840
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,720
Speaker 1: the barn, and irrigates the crops. How is US dairy

841
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases? Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn

842
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: the methane from maneuver into renewable energy that can power farms, towns,

843
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: and electric cars. So the next time you grab a

844
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: slice of pizza or lick an ice cream cone. Know

845
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 1: that dairy farmers and processors around the country are using

846
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 1: the latest practices and innovations to provide the nutrient dents

847
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: dairy products we love with less of an impact. Visit

848
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: us dairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

849
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 11: There are children, friends, and families walking, riding on paths

850
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 11: and roads every day. Remember they're real people with loved

851
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 11: ones who need them to get home safely. Protect our

852
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 11: cyclists and pedestrians because they're people too, Go safely. California

853
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 11: from the California Office of Traffic Safety and Caltrans.

854
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 12: Hey everybody, this is Jody Sweeten from how Rude tan

855
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856
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857
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858
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859
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860
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861
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862
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863
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864
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865
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866
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867
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868
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869
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871
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874
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875
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876
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877
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878
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879
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882
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884
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885
00:43:58,160 --> 00:43:59,680
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886
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 4: All right, we're talking about charges in the universe, and Daniel,

887
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 4: we're saying that the electron has a charge of negative

888
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 4: one because that's what we gave it, and we know

889
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 4: that the proton, which is made out of quarks, has

890
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 4: an overall charge of plus one. And the fact that

891
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,879
Speaker 4: they're exactly the opposite is sort of the reason that

892
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 4: we can have atoms and things like that. Right, if

893
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,240
Speaker 4: it was any different, what would happen?

894
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: If it was any different, then you couldn't get neutral

895
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: hydrogen for example. Right, there was this moment in the

896
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: universe very early on, when electrons and protons cooled down.

897
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,720
Speaker 1: They slowed down enough that their mutual electrical attraction could

898
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: make them form neutral hydrogen, and the universe suddenly became transparent. Right,

899
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 1: this is the moment when the cosmic microwave background radiation

900
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,240
Speaker 1: was created and flew through the universe. And neutral hydrogen

901
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: is essential for basically the formation of the whole universe.

902
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: It's basically what makes up the universe neutral hydrogen.

903
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 4: Wait, why is that important? I guess. If let's say

904
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 4: the proton had like one point one the charge of

905
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:11,240
Speaker 4: an electron plus one point one. You would still get hydrogen,

906
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 4: but the hydrogen would just have an overall charge of

907
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 4: plus point one, wouldn't it.

908
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, you could get hydrogen, it wouldn't be neutral hydrogen.

909
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 1: And I think that has a lot of downstream effects

910
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:25,720
Speaker 1: for how chemistry happens and how life is formed and

911
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,320
Speaker 1: everything else that we rely on. But yeah, I'm not

912
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,280
Speaker 1: an expert on chemistry and biochemistry.

913
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 4: But you could still have a universe way with suns

914
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 4: and planets and stuff, could you?

915
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: You could have a universe, And I imagine that fusion

916
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: could still happen because fusion fundamentally is really just a

917
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 1: process between protons. You don't really need the electrons, Like

918
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: inside the heart of stars, protons are anyway ionized, so

919
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: you don't really have the electrons around when you do fusion.

920
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 1: So you can still have fusion if protons don't have

921
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: exactly the opposite charge of electrons. So you can still

922
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: have light in the universe. Right, that's good. Remember, the

923
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 1: elect tramagnetism is much stronger than gravity, so for gravity

924
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: to take over and to tug things together into dense

925
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: objects probably requires everything to be electrically neutral. Nothing is

926
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: electrically neutral and everything is repelling each other. Gravity might

927
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: not be able to overcome that and form dense objects

928
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,399
Speaker 1: like planets and stars and ice cream.

929
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 4: Well, I wonder if that's true. I wonder if you

930
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,280
Speaker 4: could still form them. There would just maybe be different

931
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 4: proportions of the different elements, right, Like you know, if

932
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 4: hydrogen was like plus point one, then maybe you could

933
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 4: have other materials that are like negative point eight, and

934
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 4: then you could have you know, two of these and

935
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:35,439
Speaker 4: one of these.

936
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, it might be possible to still form neutral objects.

937
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: But for that to work, then the charges can't just

938
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 1: be arbitrary. They have to be like some rational fraction

939
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: of each other. You know, the proton is charged pi

940
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: and the electron has charged negative one, then no arrangement

941
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: of protons and electrons will give you a neutral object.

942
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: It's just impossible. But if they are a rational fraction

943
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: of each other, if the proton is like five four

944
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 1: or nine eighths or something, then yeah, you can have

945
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 1: a certain relationship. You can make weird atoms out of

946
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,399
Speaker 1: eight protons and nine electrons or something like.

947
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:10,879
Speaker 4: That, right, And I wonder that would be okay, Right,

948
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 4: Like we can have molecules in our body that have

949
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 4: an overall charge, right, we certainly could, Like a molecule

950
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 4: in our body can lose an electron in one of

951
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 4: its atoms and it would still be a molecule. Like

952
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 4: maybe I wonder if biology or nature needs neutral particles.

953
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: I know that a lot of our biological processes rely

954
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,720
Speaker 1: on charges, right, Like our entire nervous system is basically

955
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: electrically charged and uses ions. So probably things like that

956
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 1: could function. But I think the whole structure of the

957
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: universe would be very different if you had these different

958
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: kind of chemicals. But even this is relying on an assumption, right,

959
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: it's an assuming that you could still build something neutral

960
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 1: so that gravity could take over. If instead charges could

961
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 1: have any value, then there's no guarantee you could put

962
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 1: particles together to make things that are neutral. And I

963
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 1: think that's one of the deepest questions, Like why are

964
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: these particles rational fractions of each other's charge? One third,

965
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: two thirds, five fourths even, you know these kinds of

966
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: things instead of zero point eight seven to two or

967
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: irrational numbers.

968
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:11,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess that's the main question we're asking today,

969
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 4: is like why can't that be because as far as

970
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 4: we know, the particles that we do know about have

971
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 4: these multiple charges of each other. Right, that's kind of

972
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:21,320
Speaker 4: the idea exactly.

973
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: And so if you ask theoretical physics, like what prevents

974
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,919
Speaker 1: us from having particles with charge zero point oh one

975
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: or zero point oh one seventy nine to two or

976
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: you know, just keep going, and the answer is nothing,

977
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 1: like there is no theoretical prohibition against it. But that's

978
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 1: mostly because we don't really understand where charge comes from

979
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 1: and how these labels get assigned, and so we haven't

980
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 1: invented rules that say you can't do it. We just

981
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,280
Speaker 1: haven't seen any particles like that in the universe.

982
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 4: Right. And the weird thing I guess is that you know,

983
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 4: an electron it comes from the electric quantum field, and

984
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 4: a core comes from the quantum quark field, and yet

985
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 4: they seem to have charges that are kind of multiples

986
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 4: of each other. That's the weird thing too about the universe, right, Yeah, that.

987
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 1: Is definitely a weird thing because as far as we know,

988
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 1: those fields are not that closely related. Like there are

989
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: similarities there between the electron, the neutrino, and the quarks, right,

990
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 1: they're paired together in similar ways, like the w for example,

991
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: can decay to an electron and a neutrino. It can

992
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 1: also decay to a pair of quarks because that pair

993
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 1: of quarks have a charge difference of plus or minus one.

994
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 1: So there's definitely relationships between them, but we don't really

995
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: understand all those relationships. What this suggests is that there's

996
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 1: some deeper relationship between the electron and the quarks than

997
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 1: we even understand. Like maybe the electron and the quarks

998
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: are all made out of some tinier little particle, and

999
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 1: some arrangement of those little tiny particles, which each have

1000
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: their own electric charge, is what gives you the electron

1001
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: with charge one or the quark with charge minus one third,

1002
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: the same way that like atoms are built out of

1003
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 1: the same building blocks and you get all sorts of

1004
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 1: different behavior and overall charges and whatever. Maybe electrons and

1005
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 1: quarks and neutrinos are all built out of the same

1006
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 1: tiny little building blocks, and that would explain all the

1007
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:11,399
Speaker 1: relationships between them, including this strangely fortuitous relationship of their

1008
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 1: electric charges.

1009
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 4: Hmmm. Maybe there areuscles out there in the universe, and

1010
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 4: maybe you are a corpuscular particle, if I mean, are

1011
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 4: particular physicists.

1012
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: It's so much fun to say. But there are theories

1013
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: out there about these so called milli charged particles, particles

1014
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: that have really really tiny electric charges. We're talking about

1015
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: things down to like one thousands or less of the

1016
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 1: charge of the electron, and there are experiments out there

1017
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:42,359
Speaker 1: searching for them as well.

1018
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 3: Well.

1019
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 4: I feel like there's maybe two possibilities right, Like there's

1020
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 4: a possibility that there is a whole new kind of

1021
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,800
Speaker 4: particle that we don't know about that has a charge

1022
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 4: that's one thousands of the electron or you know, a

1023
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 4: point nine nine nine to infinity the charge. That's one

1024
00:50:57,960 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 4: possibilities that you have a whole new kind of part

1025
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 4: that we hadn't seen before. And then there's the other

1026
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 4: possibility that maybe there are electrons out there with one

1027
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 4: point oh one electrical charge. So which which one are

1028
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 4: we talking about here?

1029
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 1: We're talking about both of those possibilities But we're also

1030
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: talking about a third possibility. Maybe there's another kind of

1031
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,359
Speaker 1: particle out there. They call it a para electron, and

1032
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: it's got plus or minus paracharge, So like some whole

1033
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 1: new kind of charge the way we were talking about,

1034
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,320
Speaker 1: like the strong force has its own charge. Now, imagine

1035
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: a new force with a new charge, and a new

1036
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 1: particle with that force, and it has its own new

1037
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 1: particle like the photon. So you have a para electron

1038
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,919
Speaker 1: with its paracharge and its paraphoton. If, however, that new

1039
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 1: photon and the paraphoton talk to each other a little bit,

1040
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,280
Speaker 1: if they mix a little bit, if they can exchange

1041
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:51,399
Speaker 1: information a tiny bit, then that para electron would look

1042
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 1: to us as if it had a tiny electric charge.

1043
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 1: So it really have its own paracharge of plus or

1044
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: minus one. But we would see it is having a

1045
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:04,479
Speaker 1: tiny electric charge because we would only capture a little

1046
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 1: bit of it through this photon pair of photon mixing.

1047
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 4: Wait, I don't get it. So we're imagining a whole

1048
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 4: new particle, the whole new kind of force, And you're

1049
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 4: saying that maybe that new force leaks a little bit

1050
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:21,399
Speaker 4: or interacts a little bit with ours in that it's

1051
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 4: its own force. But it's sort of to us, it

1052
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,280
Speaker 4: looks like it's like it overlaps with the electromagnetic forces

1053
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 4: that we're saying a little bit.

1054
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got it, exactly, that's exactly right. So it

1055
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: has the same strength as electromagnetism, but we mostly can't

1056
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,799
Speaker 1: see it. So we see it as if it was

1057
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 1: a tiny little version of electromagnetism, like electrons with a

1058
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 1: tiny charge.

1059
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 4: Now, why do you need this whole setup to imagine

1060
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 4: a particle with point oh one charge? Can I just

1061
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 4: imagine a particle with point on one charge?

1062
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 1: You can? Theorists don't like that. I was reading some

1063
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 1: papers about that, and theorists always just dismissed that possibility

1064
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: as not very esthetic. I think that they want a

1065
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 1: reason why a particle would have some arbitrary, tiny little

1066
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,720
Speaker 1: chart rather than just like putting the number in by hand.

1067
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 1: You know, often theoretical physicists don't like to add parameters

1068
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: to the universe that don't have an explanation, and so

1069
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 1: they look for a reason why it would have to

1070
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 1: be this way. So it's a little bit more indirect,

1071
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: but theoretical physicists prefer it like sits better in their

1072
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 1: minds for reasons. Honestly, I don't totally understand.

1073
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 4: I see they prefer to think about it coming up

1074
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 4: with a whole new force in a whole new particle.

1075
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 4: It has a little bit of coupling with the electromagnetic

1076
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,400
Speaker 4: force rather than just coming up with a whole new

1077
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 4: particle that has a little bit of an electromagnetic.

1078
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right, you know. And a lot of

1079
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 1: things that happen in theoretical physics are guided by a

1080
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: sense of aesthetics, like what would be a pretty way

1081
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 1: for this to work mathematically? What would give us a

1082
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 1: beautiful description of the universe, And that in the end

1083
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:58,760
Speaker 1: is subjective, you know. We like to think about science

1084
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 1: as objective and based in fact and making progress in

1085
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 1: lockstep as we approach the truth. But a lot of

1086
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:08,880
Speaker 1: it really is also a search for beauty and elegance

1087
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 1: in the universe. And that's kind of controversial. There are

1088
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: some folks out there who think that's misguided, the universe

1089
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:17,799
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be beautiful, and other folks that think

1090
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,280
Speaker 1: that the search for elegance and beauty in our theoretical

1091
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 1: description in the universe has led to great discoveries. So

1092
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 1: it's a very controversial approach, but anyway, it's part of

1093
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:28,840
Speaker 1: the literature of milli charged particles.

1094
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 4: Now, you said this is one kind of possible milli

1095
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,319
Speaker 4: charged particle. Having this whole new particle with whole new

1096
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:36,720
Speaker 4: force But then there're the other two that I mentioned,

1097
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 4: which is like, maybe there are particles with just a

1098
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 4: little tiny bit of electric charge, or maybe like the

1099
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 4: electrons we know sometimes have a little bit or a

1100
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 4: little bit more or less electric charge. And you're saying

1101
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:49,399
Speaker 4: we're looking for all of these things, or just we're

1102
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 4: only looking for the new force, new particle model.

1103
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 1: We're looking for all these things. Is a lot of

1104
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:57,280
Speaker 1: different experiments searching for these things. Some people are looking

1105
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 1: for these paraelectrons. Other people are looking this see if

1106
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 1: maybe the neutrino doesn't have zero charge, maybe it has

1107
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: a tiny, tiny, tiny charge. Remember, whenever we measure something

1108
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 1: in physics, it's never exact right. You can't measure something

1109
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 1: to be exactly zero, you know, we just set a

1110
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 1: limit on it. You can say, well, if neutrino's had

1111
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 1: a charge, it would be less than some tiny value

1112
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 1: or we would have seen it. So people try to

1113
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:23,879
Speaker 1: nail that down. Is it possible that the neutrino might

1114
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 1: have a tiny little charge. There's a whole broad set

1115
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: of experiments looking for these things.

1116
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 4: Now, I guess maybe walk us through how do you

1117
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:32,760
Speaker 4: even look for these things?

1118
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 1: So first of all, to discover one of these particles,

1119
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,480
Speaker 1: you have to see it by itself. You need to

1120
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 1: isolate it and demonstrate that it really has its own

1121
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 1: electric charge, sort of like the way we have seen

1122
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: quarks inside the proton right you could say, oh, maybe

1123
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 1: quarks have a charge two thirds, but until you see

1124
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 1: them operating on their own, you can't really say that

1125
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 1: you have found it. And so we try to do

1126
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 1: this in accelerators. For example, we smash protons together and

1127
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: we see new stuff that comes out, and everything that's

1128
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 1: created in the accelerator is a first in a magnetic

1129
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:04,880
Speaker 1: field that bends its path. So electrons fly out of

1130
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 1: the collision and they curve, and how much they curve

1131
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: depends on their charge. So one thing you can do

1132
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:15,319
Speaker 1: pretty easily is look for particles that bend weirdly in

1133
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:18,760
Speaker 1: your magnetic field, because if they have a tiny electric charge,

1134
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 1: they'll bend a tiny little bit. If they have some

1135
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 1: huge electric charge, they'll bend a lot. And so that's

1136
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 1: one quick thing that you can do. It's just like,

1137
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 1: look for weirdly bending particles created in accelerators.

1138
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:32,760
Speaker 4: But I guess the hard thing is, like we mentioned earlier,

1139
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 4: is that the universe is quantum right, Like if something

1140
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 4: has point zero one electric charge, that doesn't mean it's

1141
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:42,839
Speaker 4: going to interact with something that has one electric charge, right,

1142
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:45,799
Speaker 4: Like the universe only likes to make exchange it if

1143
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 4: you have exact change.

1144
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 1: That's right, But some of those interactions are still allowed.

1145
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 1: Like if you have a particle flying by with zero

1146
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 1: point zero one electric charge, it can radiate a photon

1147
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 1: that doesn't violate conservation of charge, and then that photon

1148
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 1: knock off an electron in your material?

1149
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 4: Can it? Can it generate a photon? But then aren't

1150
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:06,360
Speaker 4: photons also quantized?

1151
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 1: Photons are quantized, but they're not electrically charged. So an

1152
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 1: electron can generate a photon, or this para electron could

1153
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 1: also generate a photon. It wouldn't break any of the rules. Yes,

1154
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 1: you have to quantize them. You have to generate one

1155
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 1: electron or two electrons. But having a tiny electric charge

1156
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 1: doesn't prevent you from generating an integer number of photons.

1157
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 4: But they would have to be really tiny photons, right

1158
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 4: like point oh one of a photon.

1159
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 1: Kind of no, you would still generate one photon. You

1160
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 1: just have a smaller probability of generating photons. So particles

1161
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 1: with smaller electric charge generate basically fewer photons, so they

1162
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 1: ionize material less. This is actually another way people are

1163
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 1: looking for these things. It might be that we are

1164
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 1: generating these milli charged particles in our accelerators, but we're

1165
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: not seeing them because they just don't leave a trace

1166
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: in our detectors, which mostly require particles to ionize the

1167
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 1: material to like knock things out of the way as

1168
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 1: they fly through with their electric charge. So some folks

1169
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 1: have set up dedicated experiments far away from the collider,

1170
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 1: like near the collider, but through like meters and meters

1171
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 1: of rock instead of special detectors, hoping that a milli

1172
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:15,919
Speaker 1: charged particle will fly all the way through that rock

1173
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 1: not ionize anything, because if it's low electric charge and

1174
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 1: then suddenly decay in their detector and nothing else basically

1175
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 1: could survive all of that rock. So if they see

1176
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 1: something there, they'll be pretty convinced they see something that

1177
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: can survive all that rock and also decay into photons,

1178
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 1: and so probably a particle with very low electric charge.

1179
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 11: HM.

1180
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 4: I feel like this gets a little bit into the

1181
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 4: idea that maybe charge is really more of a probability,

1182
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 4: which we probably can't be too deep into but maybe

1183
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 4: talk to us a little about the other ways that

1184
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 4: we're looking for these paraparticles.

1185
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 1: Another way to look for these things is in cosmic rays.

1186
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 1: A lot of discoveries have been made just by looking

1187
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 1: at the particles that come from space, because they smash

1188
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 1: into our atmosphere and are basically like little particle collisions

1189
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 1: that can produce all sorts of crazy stuff. And so muons,

1190
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 1: for example, were discovered by looking at particles coming from

1191
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 1: the upper atmosphere. And if you use a cloud chamber,

1192
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 1: this is just a chamber where the air is super

1193
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 1: saturated with water, so charge particles flying through it will

1194
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 1: tend to create droplets, so you can see the path

1195
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 1: of particles. You might have seen one in a museum.

1196
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 1: Sometime you can see muons flying through it. Well, the

1197
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 1: drop density, like how many drops you make per centimeter,

1198
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 1: for example, depends on the charge because it depends on

1199
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 1: how often you're shooting out photons, and so if you

1200
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 1: saw a particle flying through there with very low drop density,

1201
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 1: that would tell you that you have a particle with

1202
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 1: low electric charge. So people are using cloud chambers to

1203
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 1: study cosmic rays and see if they can spot some

1204
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 1: of these very low electrically charged.

1205
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 4: Particles cool and how else are you looking for these?

1206
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 1: There are really fun experiments that are basically the successors

1207
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 1: of Milken's oil drop experiment. They're taking a blav of

1208
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:00,080
Speaker 1: matter and they're looking to see if there's basically the

1209
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 1: kind of atom that you were talking about earlier somewhere

1210
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 1: inside this blob of matter. Like imagine some other particle

1211
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 1: with a tiny charge orbiting a proton right bound to

1212
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 1: the nucleus, making some new kind of atom. And if

1213
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 1: it's also very massive, if this low charge particle has

1214
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 1: a high mass, it would be like bound to the

1215
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 1: nucleus and very very close to the nucleus. So people

1216
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 1: are looking for this like weird kind of stuff embedded

1217
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 1: in matter, and they theorize that it might have been

1218
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 1: formed early in the universe. But because these things would

1219
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: be very heavy they were on Earth, they might have

1220
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 1: like sunk down through the Earth's crust and all have

1221
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 1: pooled up near the center of the Earth. So you

1222
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 1: can't just like scoop up a chunk of dirt and

1223
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 1: look for these weird objects inside of them because they

1224
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 1: probably aren't any So what they're doing is they're looking

1225
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:50,440
Speaker 1: for asteroids. They take like a slice of an asteroid

1226
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 1: and they see if they can find these weirdly charged

1227
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 1: heavy objects inside an asteroid slice. And they use an

1228
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 1: experiment similar to millikens called a levitometer, where they have

1229
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 1: like a blob of the stuff magnetically suspended in this

1230
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 1: oscillating electric field and they watch the motion of it

1231
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 1: to see if they can detect something which can't be

1232
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 1: explained by an integer number of charges, very similar to

1233
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 1: the oil job experiment.

1234
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:18,600
Speaker 4: Like, maybe there is this kind of new kind of

1235
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 4: material here on Earth. Is that what you're saying with

1236
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 4: the new forest and the new particles, is that what

1237
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 4: you're looking for. You're looking for like regular asteroid rocks

1238
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 4: that somehow have this new kind of matter somehow stuck

1239
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 4: to it.

1240
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Maybe deep within it there's one of these things,

1241
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 1: and that can try to figure out if a huge

1242
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 1: blob of matter has one or maybe two of these

1243
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 1: things by oscillating in an electric field and seeing if

1244
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 1: it behaves strangely. There's a lot of details there we

1245
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 1: don't have time to get into, but the basic version

1246
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 1: is that you can take a chunk of matter and

1247
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 1: study its behavior in electric fields to see if it

1248
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: has any of these new weird atoms in it that

1249
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 1: might have milli charged particles within them.

1250
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 4: So you're basically looking for a new kind of matter, right, yeah,

1251
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 4: exactly that we had never seen before. And you're wondering,

1252
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:05,960
Speaker 4: I wonder if it's in this rock or this rock,

1253
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 4: or how about that rock? Is it in this rock? No?

1254
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 4: How about there?

1255
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right, and that seems crazy, but you know,

1256
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 1: it could be that it's everywhere, that it's in all

1257
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:18,200
Speaker 1: the rocks, and so might as well check. And so

1258
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 1: what they can do is they can say, look, oh, well,

1259
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 1: we didn't find it, and so maybe it's just rare,

1260
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 1: and then they can do bigger and bigger experiments and

1261
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 1: check more and more rocks. You know. But imagine the

1262
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 1: universe where they're in every rock and nobody bothered to check. Right,

1263
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:32,680
Speaker 1: What a crazy discovery that would be.

1264
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:37,000
Speaker 4: All right, Well, good luck finding this magical kind of

1265
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 4: matter in every rock out there in the universe. I

1266
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:43,919
Speaker 4: guess maybe give us a sense of you know, why

1267
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 4: we're looking for this stuff. I mean, it sounds kind

1268
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:48,520
Speaker 4: of impossible because we haven't seen it. It doesn't seem to

1269
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 4: affect the rest of the universe in any strong way.

1270
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:53,479
Speaker 4: Otherwise we would have discovered this new kind of matter.

1271
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:55,800
Speaker 4: Are we just trying to like check the box that

1272
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 4: it doesn't exist.

1273
01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 1: We're trying to check the box that doesn't exist. But

1274
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 1: also we're trying to get a little bit of an

1275
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 1: answer to the question like why is their charge and

1276
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 1: why does it have these properties? Why does it all

1277
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 1: seem to come in these rational fractions of each other.

1278
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: It's just not something that we understand, and so if

1279
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:13,959
Speaker 1: we could find this thing, it would be a huge

1280
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:16,320
Speaker 1: clue tell us, Oh, that's not a rule in the universe.

1281
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 1: It's not required to have that. That's just the examples

1282
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 1: you happen to discover early on. You know, there's lots

1283
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 1: of times in the universe when we drew big conclusions

1284
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 1: based on incomplete information. And all of Newtonian physics, for example,

1285
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 1: is based on not ever seeing things go really fast

1286
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 1: or not ever seeing space get bent really really hard.

1287
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,200
Speaker 1: So we want to be careful not to jump to

1288
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 1: conclusions based on the small amount of information we have.

1289
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 1: We want to check and see if it's possible to

1290
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 1: do other things, and that'll tell us like, oh, this

1291
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 1: is a rule in the universe, or Nope, that's not

1292
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 1: a rule in the universe. Don't worry about it.

1293
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 4: I feel that this idea wouldn't really help you, right, Like,

1294
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 4: if there is a new kind of matter with its

1295
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 4: own force and its own particle and field and everything,

1296
01:03:57,320 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 4: and that only sort of tingently interacts with our that

1297
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 4: only looks like it has a small charge, that still

1298
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 4: wouldn't help you understand why electrical charges are the way

1299
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 4: they are, right, It would just open up a new question,

1300
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 4: like why does it only interact a little bit with

1301
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 4: this new magical field.

1302
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 1: But if that other field exists and it does interact

1303
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 1: with the photon, that means it has some connection to

1304
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 1: charge itself, and so it would shed some light on

1305
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 1: the nature of charge. But yeah, absolutely, it would open

1306
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 1: up a whole bunch of other questions.

1307
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:29,440
Speaker 4: All right, well, stay tuned, and in the meantime, I

1308
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:33,800
Speaker 4: guess keep driving those electric cards because it's putting those electrons.

1309
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 1: To work, and don't overcharge your credit card.

1310
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 4: All right. We hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us,

1311
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 4: See you next time.

1312
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge explain

1313
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 1: the universe is a production of iHeart Radio. For more

1314
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1315
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. When you pop

1316
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 1: a piece of cheese into your mouth, you're probably not

1317
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:17,120
Speaker 1: thinking about the environmental impact. But the people in the

1318
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 1: dairy industry are. That's why they're working hard every day

1319
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:23,600
Speaker 1: to find new ways to reduce waste, conserve natural resources,

1320
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:27,640
Speaker 1: and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. House US dairy tackling

1321
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:31,440
Speaker 1: greenhouse gases. Many farms use anaerobic digestors to turn the

1322
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:35,880
Speaker 1: methane from manure into renewable energy that can power farms, towns,

1323
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:39,160
Speaker 1: and electric cars. Visit you as dairy dot COM's Last

1324
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 1: Sustainability to learn more.

1325
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:45,840
Speaker 11: There are children, friends, and families walking, riding on paths

1326
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 11: and roads every day. Remember they're real people with loved

1327
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 11: ones who need them to get home safely. Protect our

1328
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 11: cyclists and pedestrians because they're people too, Go safely. California

1329
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:56,480
Speaker 11: from the California Office of Traffic Safety and Caltrans.

1330
01:05:56,600 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 9: This is Malcolm Gladwell from Revisionist History Motors is here

1331
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,920
Speaker 9: for the ride with some elbow grease, fresh installs, and

1332
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:07,680
Speaker 9: a whole lot of love you transformed one hundred thousand

1333
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 9: miles and a body full of rust into a drive

1334
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 9: that's all your own.

1335
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 4: Break kits, led headlights, whatever you need, eBay Motors has it,

1336
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Speaker 4: and with eBay Guaranteed Fit, it's guaranteed to fit your

1337
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Speaker 4: ride the first.

1338
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:25,680
Speaker 1: Time, every time, or your money back plus.

1339
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:29,400
Speaker 4: At these prices, you're burning rubber, not cash. Keep your

1340
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:33,880
Speaker 4: ride or die alive at ebaymotors dot com. Eligible items only.

1341
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Speaker 1: Exclusions apply