WEBVTT - FTX Testimony and Moderna (Podcast) 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:04.040 Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:06.920 my co host Matt Miller. Every business day, we bring 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:11.520 you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:15.520 with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:18.439 on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:22.000 at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. It's get into the 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:25.240 crypto map. Look at the bitcoin. It's up four percent today, 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:33.519 just under eighteencoin. Look at the bitcoin. Yeah, look, all right, 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:35.920 are we are? Let's let I think we have to separate, right, 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:37.760 and we'll do that, and we'll do Gray Felt is 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:39.800 right here. I think Mike mcglonna is on the line 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:43.919 from the self and proclaimed crypto capital of MYAMI law 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:51.160 Bloomberg Intelligence Commodities Analysts. Um, we do have to separate. Sweet, 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:53.440 Now we've got the smart Nathan Dean, got some smart 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:56.480 people on. Now you got Nathan Dean, who knows everything 0:00:56.480 --> 0:00:58.480 that's going on in Washington. I think we have to 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:03.160 differentiate what's going on on, uh in Congress and with 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:08.200 Sam Bankman freed from what's happening with the asked with 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.520 the bitcoin, as you say, with the underlying asset, Katie, 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:17.479 You've seen incredible stability and resilience I think in bitcoins 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.840 and now rally well. Bitcoin is a macro asset. The 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:23.360 fact that we are talking about I don't know, still 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:25.760 a seven handle on CPI, but much fuller than what 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:28.559 was expected. That's going to be good for Bitcoin, because, 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:30.480 I mean, Matt, you've been making the point over the 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:34.399 past months, these are two separate happenings. What's happening with 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:38.679 these centralized exchanges. What's happening with Sam Bangman Freed and 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:42.640 his collapsing empire that's different from the bitcoin blockchain, that's 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.920 different from the bitcoin token. And is there a more 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:49.720 stark example than today's price action. Probably not, Mike, does Mike, 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:51.840 does this price action have anything to do with the 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:56.720 arrest of Sam Bankman Freed. It's such a classic macro 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:00.840 everything short covering day. Today, coins up the same as 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:03.920 much as the nastic was this morning. There's massive shorts, 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:07.040 and the nastic options exploration is this week. There's a 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:09.519 huge amount of concentration of open interest right below the 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:12.840 price we were yesterday, and they're just flushing the shorts. 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:15.600 And that's what happens in bear markets. Remember this is 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:18.320 still a really bad inflation and spend a significant bear markets. 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:20.920 So Bitcoin, yeah, it looks like it's bouncing. It's going 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:23.440 to see very good resistance around twenty thou people have 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:25.119 given up in sand Bank and Fry. The key story 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:28.400 today in crypto is how binances having massive outflows, and 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:30.920 that's just because people want the key, the you know, 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:34.600 get their coins off the exchange. But turning over to midcoin, 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:37.440 crude oil, everything, the one markets has showing the most 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:41.040 significant technical integation today is gold. Gold just bounce jumped above. 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.640 It's fifty and a hunter week moving averages. And I 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:45.600 fully expect you the only market you can say that about. 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:47.800 And I fully expect Bitcoin at some point it's gonna 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.600 get there. But Bitcoin is still a risk asset. Hey, Nathan, 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:53.799 Nathan Dean, your senior policy analysom Bloomberg Intelligence. You're based 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:56.680 in Washington, d C. That's your cross the bear. But 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:01.360 tell us about what you expect to hear from your Congress, 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:04.600 your regulators in Washington. This is your wheelhouse, mark. I see, 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.680 I see Maxine Waters sitting down right now exactly, so 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:09.840 you know, just real quickly, the you know, just one 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.200 thing I wanted to call out on bitcoin. Though Bitcoin 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:14.120 does have a safety net to it in terms of 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:16.200 what we're gonna hear today in terms of FTX and 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:18.560 the hearings and so forth, because the courts have deemed 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:22.079 it a commodity and therefore the legislators are pretty confident 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:25.520 that bitcoin is is safe from a regulatory perspective. What 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.839 we're gonna hear in the hearing today, you know, look, 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:30.800 the policymakers, we're going to try and score a lot 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.240 of political points. With Sam Bankman freed now that he's 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:35.920 not gonna be here, those political points are gonna come down. 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:37.960 I don't think we're gonna learn much in the way 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:41.240 of policy clues of what legislators want to do. But 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:44.240 my worst case scenario, worst case being for the crypto 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:48.760 currency industry is if you hear policymakers try and reiterate 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:51.640 what represented Brad Sherman likes to say, and I'm paraphrasing here, 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.720 but essentially let crypto burn. So if you hear some 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:57.880 of the progressive lawmakers begin to echo those statements, that's 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.840 really bad thing going in the It condent a lot 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:04.480 of the momentum for providing regulatory clarity. Going forward, Nathan, 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:08.000 I got to ask a question, and I'll first say, 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:11.040 I'm not like some kind of q and on four 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:17.000 Chan conspiracy theorist. Okay, okay, but the timing to me 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:22.440 seems just questionable that Sam Bankman Freed is arrested hours 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:27.200 before he testifies in front of Congress. Are you hearing 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:32.279 anyone else ask this question? You know? Why? Now? Why 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:36.120 in this moment? Absolutely? I mean the chairwoman, Maxine Waters 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:37.920 even said that this morning. She just said it was 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:41.359 really unfortunate that, uh, you know, we weren't going to 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:44.400 hear directly form Sam Bankman Freed. And you know, there 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.280 is some draft of his testimony that is going around, 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:49.880 and if it was the actual draft, there was a 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:52.000 lot of information that he was going to put out there, 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:55.719 you know. So unfortunately, from the policymaker standpoint, they're not 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:57.880 going to be able to you know, talk to Sam 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:00.400 Bankman Freed and so forth like that. But you are 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:02.839 going to hear about a lot of the bad actions 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:05.120 or at least the alleged actions and so forth from 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:08.600 John Ray in today's hearing, and you know, it will 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:12.279 be very interesting to see if you know, policymakers, you know, 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:16.760 really group on like custody or customer protection or securities, 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:19.120 because the Democrats want to do something in response to this. 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.840 The Republicans want to do something, but that's something is 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:23.960 completely different, and part of them don't even know what 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:27.000 that something is. So, you know, it's just the first 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:29.599 stage of a long process that Congress has to get through, 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:31.640 and we're gonna have to go through this against tomorrow 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:34.760 when the Senate Banking Committee has their own hearing on this. Hey, Mike, 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.000 what is I guess this? I guess to me, it 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:40.640 just feels like a new phase, and it's a phase 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:45.760 in the development of crypto, which is regulatory oversight, regulatory attention. 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:49.039 I mean, if that's a fact what we're seeing, what 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:51.000 does that mean? What are you hearing from some investors 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:55.080 as a related to crypto, Well, the retail are getting 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:57.640 hurt because a lot of them are losing money. Unfortunately, 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.440 people who had investments with some of these firms are 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:03.800 through some of these firms. But from a regulatory institutional standpoint, 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.440 this is what is clearly needed and I think Nathan 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:08.799 will be able to expond on that. And this space 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:11.840 is just you know that no needed be decentralized and 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:14.920 you know, it just realized we need some good supervision 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:16.920 here because they're bad actors. We found out some of 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:19.280 the bad actors are just going out and taking people's money. 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:21.360 So that regulation, I think, is this is we're gonna 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:23.039 look back at. Is this is part of that paradigm 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:24.800 shift that's going to flip over to Okay, you know 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.159 what the space arena what solves this? From our et 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:29.760 F team, Eric Felt Tunist and James Sefford is an 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.080 e t F um et F would you know, you 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:35.520 don't have to worry about your counterparty typically, So to me, 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:37.560 that's one thing that will make a difference that should 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:40.080 excite that process and not just ne t F tracking 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.680 bitcoin trapping and index of cryptos like we do most 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:48.479 equities and bonds. Katie Katie Greifeld is not only a 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.840 cross ass or reporter, she's also what is your new 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.440 title I heard yesterday on the radio, Senior Financial Analysts 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:56.839 or something. Definitely not a financial act but she is 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:59.239 the co host of e t F i Q on Bloberg. 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:03.239 Who's other co host, Well, it's Matt Miller Beltunists also 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:06.800 is there every single week. I mean I've spoken to 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:08.880 a lot of people with that view that a lot 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:12.160 of this pain that you're seeing among retail investors right 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:14.640 now would have been avoided if the e t F 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:16.880 wrapper had been made available from the get go. But 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:20.640 at this moment in time, has a spot bitcoin e 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:23.840 t F ever felt farther away. I think it's been 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:28.080 pushed so far down the priority list. Gensler is definitely 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:31.160 taking a victory lap here. So I also want to 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:34.760 point out that, um, I'll take issue with the statement 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:38.600 that regulation is needed just from the total like libertarian 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:42.680 o g bitcoin point of view. If you don't share 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:45.000 your private key with anybody else, if you hold your 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:49.120 own assets, this is a trust less asset, so there's 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.480 no there's no need for that kind of regulation. Nless, 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:53.960 you're letting Sam bankman Fried hold your stuff like dude, 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.960 hold my stuff, you know, don't spend it. That's what 0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:00.360 the bitcoin maximalists are saying. They feel vindicated did here. 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:04.040 It's all of this Frankenstein industry that was built on 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:06.560 top of what's supposed to be you know, people just 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.600 holding bitcoin in their cold wallets. But those but those 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:13.400 people are dinosaurs and cavemen like and Nathan, I mean 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.080 you you wrote in a research note. I think I 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:19.760 don't know yesterday the day before that even though firms 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:24.880 like coin base and um you know, Genesis Finance, etcetera. 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:28.080 Would face tens of millions of dollars in compliance costs, 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:32.320 they would still welcome some kind of regulation. Absolutely. I mean, 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:34.679 anytime you have this type of new regulations come out 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:36.640 and this is an a crypto. I mean we saw 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:38.839 this with Dodd Frank. What it does is it it 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:42.520 allows the big market players, the folks that have the 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:46.080 compliance spend, the technology spent, to actually gain market share, 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:48.440 and it pushes out the mom and pops of the world. 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:50.679 And you know, when you talk about all the legislative 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:53.120 solutions that are being thrown out there right now, it 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.199 really is geared towards institutional I mean you go back 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:58.760 to the retail argument or the discussion we were just having. 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:00.600 If any of the bill is that were to come 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:04.360 up in two past, it would have helped coin base 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:06.760 and f t X and Finance and even like black 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:09.600 Rock and Fidelity, it would not have helped the mom 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:12.000 and pops, the web three startups and so forth. Because 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.680 if any legislation passes in I think it has to 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:20.760 include the provision that securities, Sorry, the tokens out there 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:24.440 are securities and therefore go to the Securities and Exchange Commission. 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:27.800 So you know, that's not what a decentralized community wants. 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:30.160 So it's gonna be really interesting to see if the 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:34.040 crypto industry next year starts actually lobbying against some of 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:37.280 the solutions that we're going to see come from the lawmakers. Hey, Mike, 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:41.360 you're based in Miami here, And again, the good folks 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:44.080 in Miami have been it's such a growing marketplace for 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:46.920 financial services, and then they've been you know, the city 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:49.240 itself has been advocating that. You know, they really want 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:52.880 to be a center for all things crypto. What what's 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:55.440 the feeling in Miami here as we think about what's 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.319 happened to Sam BANKMN, Freed and f t X and 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:00.400 the whole space over the last several weeks. They still 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:04.920 have a stadium. Yes that's not the name is still 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:06.719 on it. There's some kind of legal issue. When I 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:08.480 was worked by with my wife the other day, they 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:09.920 got to get a picture. We haven't had a picture 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:11.040 in front of it, but the name is still on 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.440 the stadium. But there was a Web three conference two 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.200 weeks ago that I participated in Mayor so far as spoken, 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:18.560 there's still quite the it was. It was full, I 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.440 was replised. I was at a conference in Vegas in October. 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:23.520 It was empty. It was full, and there's still quite 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:26.559 the positive attitude to the bigger picture. I think from 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:29.760 retail standpoint it's much different. From the institutional standpoint, it's 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:32.240 still quite we're building this. This is part of the 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:36.200 pain of a nascent asset technology, and unfortunately this is 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:38.280 just the extreme. But one thing I want to point 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:40.000 out is a lesson I learned, and I think y 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:41.640 SEC is good about this. The first day in the 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:43.599 border trade by the waterfront, I saw a note that 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:46.320 said the ultimate seduction of other people's money. And that's 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:48.880 what we're learning the lessons of now. So it's I mean, 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:51.400 trading crypto seems to to the Mike mclogans of the 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:55.160 world who have been trading you know, pork belly futures 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:57.920 and corn futures. I mean, it's all kind of there's 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:00.000 a lot of lessons that kind of you can learn from. 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:01.720 This kind of thing happens in a lot of assets. 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:05.200 And look, I'm still shocked that bitcoin is worth seventeen 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:09.480 and a half thousand dollars. I remember, you know, I 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:13.080 remember when U Joe Wisenthal said to me, Hey, if 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:14.480 you liked it at a thousand, you should like it 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:17.920 at two fifty. And I was like, I do, dude, 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:20.880 And I would back up the truck if it weren't 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:24.640 for you have a truck. My ethical um concerns, you can't, 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.240 you know, obviously report on an asset that you own. Now, 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:29.199 I kind of wish i'd thrown those ethical concerns to 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:33.840 the way, and you know, but but nonetheless, it's obviously 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.960 it's come down considerably from what was the high, like 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:41.959 sixty five, well that's appropriate, um so, down to seventeen 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:43.320 and a half, which was kind of like the last 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:45.880 peak right in two thousand seventeen, Mike, wasn't it wasn't 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:47.800 that where where it peaked and then it dropped back 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:50.120 down at three or four thousand. Yes, so I think 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:52.760 it's billion a foundation compared to that five thousand then, 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:55.960 which bottom at three thousand. So it might get as 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:58.840 well as twelve thousand. I'm not disputing that. Because this 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:00.600 is a bear market. There's a good reason for it, 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:02.600 but that's probably gonna be a foundation for the next 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:05.360 ten x rally, because the key thing that's really notable 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.240 this year is you look at open interest enlisted futures, 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:10.800 clearly your bull market Bitcoin. You look at open interest 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:13.000 at all the Camani's most nobly crude, which is why 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:15.400 been bear is clearly a bear market open interests. So 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.800 it's going institutional, it's taking time, and this is part 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:20.640 of the growing pains. The question is right now we 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:23.040 are an a massive bear market in all assets except 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:24.320 the one thing that are coming out of it and 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:27.319 showing signs of it is bonds and gold. Bitcoin is 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:29.400 still risk. As I want to just point out that 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:33.880 Maxine Waters has finished and now we're listening to Mr 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:39.520 mckenry um give his opening statements. Before we get to um, 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:43.079 what's his name, John Ray, John Jay Ray, the third 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:46.400 uh Sam Bank and Freed would have been testifying here, 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:50.360 but he was arrested. Like what Mr sam bankman Fried, 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:55.320 we would have wells draft remarks, so maybe we would 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:57.880 have seen some clauses fixed up and cleaned up. But 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:01.600 we did see the draft remark. He started by saying 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.000 he messed up. He used a different word and starts 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:08.080 off by dropping the f bomb, which is classic classic 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:12.400 kid Mike drop from the start, but then it kind 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:14.280 of goes a little bit off the rails. I mean, 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:17.360 he was still taking shots at c Z of course, 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.800 that is the CEO of Rival Exchange Finance. He also 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.200 talked about John J. Ray the Third, who is the 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:26.280 new CEO of f TX, saying that he's reached out 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:29.920 to Ray multiple times to offer to help to sift 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:35.840 through the wreckage the reporting the records. Apparently Ray hasn't 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:41.360 responded to five of Makemnfried's emails, so it's an interesting 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:44.520 a little bit of he said. He said, right, of course, 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:46.800 is going to testify today, so that's the main event, 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:48.719 so we'll see what he says. Well, and I mean, 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.920 what we're really waiting for. This is all interesting theater 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.800 and it'll be I think, in some ways fun for 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:59.599 those of us who are invested, um, not financially but 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:04.440 financial professionally. But what really matters, as Nathan pointed out, 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:09.920 is getting some uh indication of what regulation we're going 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:13.040 to see. And Nathan, you also drew an interesting distinction 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:16.440 I thought, between you know, the bitcoins and the dose 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:19.600 coins of the world and the tethers and usdcs right, 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.920 the stable coins are where we are likely to get 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:27.720 regulation first. What do we expect some real transparency there? Yeah. So, 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:30.200 and don't be surprised if you see stable coins come 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:33.400 up quite a bit in this hearing today, because you know, 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.440 there is this bill out there that's being negotiated by 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:40.920 Chairwoman Mixing Waters, ranking Em mckenry the Treasury Department, and 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:43.880 this bill I actually think has a decent shot of 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:47.480 passage early next year. Wait, was this bill co authored 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.160 by Sam Bankman Fried? It was not, and so but 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:54.040 the House Financial Services Committee is using the FTX collapse 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.600 as a way to propel it's stable coin bill. This 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:59.360 bill actually started when the you know, when we had 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.160 the stable coin issues earlier this year. But this bill 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.800 at a high level would allow both bank issuers and 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.640 non bank issuers to register with regulators. There's still some 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:10.280 makeups over the non bank side, but it would also 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.400 allow stable coins to operate as long as they're backed 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.520 up a percent by high quality liquid assets. So don't 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:18.760 be surprised if you see a lot of stable coin language. 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:21.440 It's honestly they're just using this as a platform to 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:25.080 push forward the momentum on that the state the the 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.280 the ft X Bill, the Digital Commodities Consumer Protection Act. 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:31.000 You know, it's tainted. It's not going to go anywhere. 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:32.800 You're not even gonna be able to bring it back 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.280 with the same name. Certain provisions are going to be 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:38.400 in there, uh, you know, like solidifying Bitcoin and his 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:41.760 theorum as commodities, you know, giving the SEC control and 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:45.080 potentially you know, having a lot more custody uh discussions. 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:47.120 But I was talking to a brokerage earlier this week 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:49.040 and the gentleman said, you know, I've been doing custody 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:52.200 before computers were invented. So the ideas were actually are 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:54.640 still there. It's just Congress needs to get through the 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:56.600 system of trying to figure out how, okay, how do 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:58.760 we write the legislative language and get it to a 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:03.920 point where both Republicans and Democrats can agree. We invented computers. 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:10.560 Bloomberg invented computer We did built them. When I saw 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:13.160 the story today, I immediately sent it around to all 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:17.640 of my family. It's it's it's it's hugely hopeful. So 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.520 how far away do you think we are from an 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:26.520 actual on the market um medicine to to help, you know, 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:30.520 stop people dying from melanoma from cancer skin cancer. So 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:32.560 I think we're a few years away, and not five 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:34.840 or ten years. A few years away. I mean basically, 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.440 what we have to do in twenty three, based on 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.320 this great data and we know it's real because of 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:43.960 a P value is very statistically significant, is we're going 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:47.360 to start a phase free in melanoma three. I guess 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:50.360 he's gonna take twelve to eight moves to enroll, and 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:52.480 then we need to wait twelve months to get twelveth 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:56.040 of survival data and then find the super regulate all. 0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:58.360 So that's a couple of years. Aware. Now that the 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:00.960 data is out, we're gonna go discussing with the f 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:04.360 D and over regulatory agencies to see is their way 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:07.600 to even accelerate that. So this is to be discussed well, 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:10.919 regulate alls. But that's for me nanoma. The great thing 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:14.159 about today is of course for all the families that 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.639 have you know, kind of a high risk government enoma. 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:19.480 But the great news for me today is I think 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:22.480 this is kind of immunotherapy two point zero because what 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.800 we saw over checkpoint and okate you dry and and 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:30.080 and all those medicines is a huge ability to impact 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:32.159 your immune system to kind of wake up your immune 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.240 system to go eat your cancer. But what we've shown 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:37.000 this morning for a first time in the history of 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:42.240 medicine is our ability to design a product for one 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.879 human being at the time where we could in our 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:49.160 medicine the mutation of your specific cancer. And we've shown 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:53.119 this morning, given the huge difference of recurrence and death, 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.640 we as SCATECH to drop a goal standard. We show 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:58.680 that we can teach your t sers which is part 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:02.160 of the immune system, to recognize your cancer and then 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.000 go eat it. And so I'm very excited about this. 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:09.680 Plus this is modern that technology. You know, we made 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.159 a lot of progressing then, so do I believe we 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.560 can do better? I do you know it took us 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.280 forty five days on average to get the drugs to 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.080 patients from a biopsy. I think you have a line 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.959 of site to thirty days that we save more lives, 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:25.160 and I want to keep pushing the team to even 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:28.080 go faster so that we can help as many people 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:30.600 as we can across many cancer types. So, Steven, I 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:35.000 mean this seems promising not just in fighting melanoma and 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:39.520 fighting skin cancer, but in fighting other cancers as well. Exactly, 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:43.600 So I think every solid tumor cancer is fair game now, 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:46.159 does he mean it's gonna work everywhere? We will have 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.119 to do the clinical studies. But the good news, given 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:51.399 the safety profile of a product was very good. The 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:56.680 safety profile of a combination modern aplust look very similar 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.640 to you draw alone. As you know, sometimes with combination 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:02.640 you see worst toxicity, and so we're not really viable 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:06.960 for patients. And so what's very exciting now is given 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:09.320 we are very strong data in a lot of people, 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:12.960 our goal is to run several phase freeze at the 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:16.919 same time in melanoma obviously, but we're working with colleagues 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:21.040 that mark to prioritize which over two most we start in. 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.480 As you know, cy Ray is using lung cancer and 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.560 breast cancer in Reynald cancer and many of our cancers, 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:29.960 and so we're gonna try those first. I also want 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.040 to explore what can we do to people that are 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.280 metastasies in the cancer I also want to explore in 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:39.280 our personalized cancer vaccident MODERNA alone. You have a great 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:41.840 news is we have now seventeen billion dollars of cash, 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:44.600 and so we want to invest that capital to make 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:46.800 new medicine. And this is a great place to invest 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.320 because there's a big medical need for cancer. Stephan talked 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:52.959 to us about the the size of this market. How 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:58.600 do you think about the opportunity for this particular therapeutic. So, 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:01.840 I think it's a very big US. One comparator is 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:03.520 Kate you drew our sales which is on the run 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.280 rate of sixteen billion dollar per year and analyst predicted 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:10.320 up to thirty billion by when Kit you Drew expires. 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:12.159 And so when you look at what k you do 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:14.800 I did, Let's go back a bit in history during 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:18.600 its face free Kit you do should a forty percent reduction. 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:22.920 We just standard of care then in terms of recurrence 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:25.960 and death on the same metrics we showed this morning 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:30.040 your forty four percent decrease because draw the new goal standards. 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:33.280 And so do I believe the opportunity of moderna PCV 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:36.560 down the road as we expand to more cancer types, 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:40.160 as we expend to metastatic stage, as we expand too 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.200 earlier cancer could be as big or even bigger and 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:44.840