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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day, we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. It's get into the

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Speaker 1: crypto map. Look at the bitcoin. It's up four percent today,

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Speaker 1: just under eighteencoin. Look at the bitcoin. Yeah, look, all right,

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Speaker 1: are we are? Let's let I think we have to separate, right,

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Speaker 1: and we'll do that, and we'll do Gray Felt is

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Speaker 1: right here. I think Mike mcglonna is on the line

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Speaker 1: from the self and proclaimed crypto capital of MYAMI law

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence Commodities Analysts. Um, we do have to separate. Sweet,

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Speaker 1: Now we've got the smart Nathan Dean, got some smart

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Speaker 1: people on. Now you got Nathan Dean, who knows everything

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Speaker 1: that's going on in Washington. I think we have to

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Speaker 1: differentiate what's going on on, uh in Congress and with

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Speaker 1: Sam Bankman freed from what's happening with the asked with

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Speaker 1: the bitcoin, as you say, with the underlying asset, Katie,

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Speaker 1: You've seen incredible stability and resilience I think in bitcoins

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Speaker 1: and now rally well. Bitcoin is a macro asset. The

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Speaker 1: fact that we are talking about I don't know, still

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Speaker 1: a seven handle on CPI, but much fuller than what

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Speaker 1: was expected. That's going to be good for Bitcoin, because,

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Speaker 1: I mean, Matt, you've been making the point over the

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Speaker 1: past months, these are two separate happenings. What's happening with

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Speaker 1: these centralized exchanges. What's happening with Sam Bangman Freed and

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Speaker 1: his collapsing empire that's different from the bitcoin blockchain, that's

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Speaker 1: different from the bitcoin token. And is there a more

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Speaker 1: stark example than today's price action. Probably not, Mike, does Mike,

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Speaker 1: does this price action have anything to do with the

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Speaker 1: arrest of Sam Bankman Freed. It's such a classic macro

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Speaker 1: everything short covering day. Today, coins up the same as

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Speaker 1: much as the nastic was this morning. There's massive shorts,

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Speaker 1: and the nastic options exploration is this week. There's a

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Speaker 1: huge amount of concentration of open interest right below the

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Speaker 1: price we were yesterday, and they're just flushing the shorts.

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Speaker 1: And that's what happens in bear markets. Remember this is

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Speaker 1: still a really bad inflation and spend a significant bear markets.

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Speaker 1: So Bitcoin, yeah, it looks like it's bouncing. It's going

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Speaker 1: to see very good resistance around twenty thou people have

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Speaker 1: given up in sand Bank and Fry. The key story

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Speaker 1: today in crypto is how binances having massive outflows, and

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Speaker 1: that's just because people want the key, the you know,

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Speaker 1: get their coins off the exchange. But turning over to midcoin,

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Speaker 1: crude oil, everything, the one markets has showing the most

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Speaker 1: significant technical integation today is gold. Gold just bounce jumped above.

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Speaker 1: It's fifty and a hunter week moving averages. And I

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Speaker 1: fully expect you the only market you can say that about.

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Speaker 1: And I fully expect Bitcoin at some point it's gonna

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Speaker 1: get there. But Bitcoin is still a risk asset. Hey, Nathan,

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Speaker 1: Nathan Dean, your senior policy analysom Bloomberg Intelligence. You're based

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Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. That's your cross the bear. But

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Speaker 1: tell us about what you expect to hear from your Congress,

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Speaker 1: your regulators in Washington. This is your wheelhouse, mark. I see,

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Speaker 1: I see Maxine Waters sitting down right now exactly, so

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Speaker 1: you know, just real quickly, the you know, just one

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Speaker 1: thing I wanted to call out on bitcoin. Though Bitcoin

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Speaker 1: does have a safety net to it in terms of

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Speaker 1: what we're gonna hear today in terms of FTX and

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Speaker 1: the hearings and so forth, because the courts have deemed

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Speaker 1: it a commodity and therefore the legislators are pretty confident

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Speaker 1: that bitcoin is is safe from a regulatory perspective. What

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Speaker 1: we're gonna hear in the hearing today, you know, look,

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Speaker 1: the policymakers, we're going to try and score a lot

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Speaker 1: of political points. With Sam Bankman freed now that he's

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Speaker 1: not gonna be here, those political points are gonna come down.

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Speaker 1: I don't think we're gonna learn much in the way

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Speaker 1: of policy clues of what legislators want to do. But

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Speaker 1: my worst case scenario, worst case being for the crypto

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Speaker 1: currency industry is if you hear policymakers try and reiterate

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Speaker 1: what represented Brad Sherman likes to say, and I'm paraphrasing here,

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Speaker 1: but essentially let crypto burn. So if you hear some

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Speaker 1: of the progressive lawmakers begin to echo those statements, that's

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Speaker 1: really bad thing going in the It condent a lot

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Speaker 1: of the momentum for providing regulatory clarity. Going forward, Nathan,

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Speaker 1: I got to ask a question, and I'll first say,

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Speaker 1: I'm not like some kind of q and on four

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Speaker 1: Chan conspiracy theorist. Okay, okay, but the timing to me

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Speaker 1: seems just questionable that Sam Bankman Freed is arrested hours

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Speaker 1: before he testifies in front of Congress. Are you hearing

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Speaker 1: anyone else ask this question? You know? Why? Now? Why

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Speaker 1: in this moment? Absolutely? I mean the chairwoman, Maxine Waters

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Speaker 1: even said that this morning. She just said it was

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Speaker 1: really unfortunate that, uh, you know, we weren't going to

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Speaker 1: hear directly form Sam Bankman Freed. And you know, there

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Speaker 1: is some draft of his testimony that is going around,

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Speaker 1: and if it was the actual draft, there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of information that he was going to put out there,

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Speaker 1: you know. So unfortunately, from the policymaker standpoint, they're not

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Speaker 1: going to be able to you know, talk to Sam

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Speaker 1: Bankman Freed and so forth like that. But you are

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Speaker 1: going to hear about a lot of the bad actions

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Speaker 1: or at least the alleged actions and so forth from

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Speaker 1: John Ray in today's hearing, and you know, it will

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Speaker 1: be very interesting to see if you know, policymakers, you know,

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Speaker 1: really group on like custody or customer protection or securities,

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Speaker 1: because the Democrats want to do something in response to this.

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Speaker 1: The Republicans want to do something, but that's something is

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Speaker 1: completely different, and part of them don't even know what

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Speaker 1: that something is. So, you know, it's just the first

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Speaker 1: stage of a long process that Congress has to get through,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna have to go through this against tomorrow

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Speaker 1: when the Senate Banking Committee has their own hearing on this. Hey, Mike,

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Speaker 1: what is I guess this? I guess to me, it

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Speaker 1: just feels like a new phase, and it's a phase

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Speaker 1: in the development of crypto, which is regulatory oversight, regulatory attention.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if that's a fact what we're seeing, what

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Speaker 1: does that mean? What are you hearing from some investors

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Speaker 1: as a related to crypto, Well, the retail are getting

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Speaker 1: hurt because a lot of them are losing money. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: people who had investments with some of these firms are

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Speaker 1: through some of these firms. But from a regulatory institutional standpoint,

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Speaker 1: this is what is clearly needed and I think Nathan

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Speaker 1: will be able to expond on that. And this space

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Speaker 1: is just you know that no needed be decentralized and

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Speaker 1: you know, it just realized we need some good supervision

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Speaker 1: here because they're bad actors. We found out some of

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Speaker 1: the bad actors are just going out and taking people's money.

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Speaker 1: So that regulation, I think, is this is we're gonna

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Speaker 1: look back at. Is this is part of that paradigm

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Speaker 1: shift that's going to flip over to Okay, you know

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Speaker 1: what the space arena what solves this? From our et

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Speaker 1: F team, Eric Felt Tunist and James Sefford is an

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Speaker 1: e t F um et F would you know, you

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Speaker 1: don't have to worry about your counterparty typically, So to me,

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Speaker 1: that's one thing that will make a difference that should

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Speaker 1: excite that process and not just ne t F tracking

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Speaker 1: bitcoin trapping and index of cryptos like we do most

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Speaker 1: equities and bonds. Katie Katie Greifeld is not only a

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Speaker 1: cross ass or reporter, she's also what is your new

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Speaker 1: title I heard yesterday on the radio, Senior Financial Analysts

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Speaker 1: or something. Definitely not a financial act but she is

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Speaker 1: the co host of e t F i Q on Bloberg.

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Speaker 1: Who's other co host, Well, it's Matt Miller Beltunists also

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Speaker 1: is there every single week. I mean I've spoken to

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Speaker 1: a lot of people with that view that a lot

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Speaker 1: of this pain that you're seeing among retail investors right

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Speaker 1: now would have been avoided if the e t F

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Speaker 1: wrapper had been made available from the get go. But

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Speaker 1: at this moment in time, has a spot bitcoin e

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Speaker 1: t F ever felt farther away. I think it's been

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Speaker 1: pushed so far down the priority list. Gensler is definitely

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Speaker 1: taking a victory lap here. So I also want to

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Speaker 1: point out that, um, I'll take issue with the statement

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Speaker 1: that regulation is needed just from the total like libertarian

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Speaker 1: o g bitcoin point of view. If you don't share

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Speaker 1: your private key with anybody else, if you hold your

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Speaker 1: own assets, this is a trust less asset, so there's

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Speaker 1: no there's no need for that kind of regulation. Nless,

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Speaker 1: you're letting Sam bankman Fried hold your stuff like dude,

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Speaker 1: hold my stuff, you know, don't spend it. That's what

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Speaker 1: the bitcoin maximalists are saying. They feel vindicated did here.

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Speaker 1: It's all of this Frankenstein industry that was built on

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Speaker 1: top of what's supposed to be you know, people just

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Speaker 1: holding bitcoin in their cold wallets. But those but those

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Speaker 1: people are dinosaurs and cavemen like and Nathan, I mean

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Speaker 1: you you wrote in a research note. I think I

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Speaker 1: don't know yesterday the day before that even though firms

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Speaker 1: like coin base and um you know, Genesis Finance, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: Would face tens of millions of dollars in compliance costs,

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Speaker 1: they would still welcome some kind of regulation. Absolutely. I mean,

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Speaker 1: anytime you have this type of new regulations come out

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Speaker 1: and this is an a crypto. I mean we saw

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Speaker 1: this with Dodd Frank. What it does is it it

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Speaker 1: allows the big market players, the folks that have the

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Speaker 1: compliance spend, the technology spent, to actually gain market share,

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Speaker 1: and it pushes out the mom and pops of the world.

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Speaker 1: And you know, when you talk about all the legislative

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Speaker 1: solutions that are being thrown out there right now, it

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Speaker 1: really is geared towards institutional I mean you go back

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Speaker 1: to the retail argument or the discussion we were just having.

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Speaker 1: If any of the bill is that were to come

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Speaker 1: up in two past, it would have helped coin base

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Speaker 1: and f t X and Finance and even like black

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Speaker 1: Rock and Fidelity, it would not have helped the mom

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Speaker 1: and pops, the web three startups and so forth. Because

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Speaker 1: if any legislation passes in I think it has to

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Speaker 1: include the provision that securities, Sorry, the tokens out there

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Speaker 1: are securities and therefore go to the Securities and Exchange Commission.

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Speaker 1: So you know, that's not what a decentralized community wants.

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Speaker 1: So it's gonna be really interesting to see if the

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Speaker 1: crypto industry next year starts actually lobbying against some of

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Speaker 1: the solutions that we're going to see come from the lawmakers. Hey, Mike,

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Speaker 1: you're based in Miami here, And again, the good folks

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Speaker 1: in Miami have been it's such a growing marketplace for

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Speaker 1: financial services, and then they've been you know, the city

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Speaker 1: itself has been advocating that. You know, they really want

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Speaker 1: to be a center for all things crypto. What what's

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Speaker 1: the feeling in Miami here as we think about what's

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Speaker 1: happened to Sam BANKMN, Freed and f t X and

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Speaker 1: the whole space over the last several weeks. They still

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Speaker 1: have a stadium. Yes that's not the name is still

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Speaker 1: on it. There's some kind of legal issue. When I

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Speaker 1: was worked by with my wife the other day, they

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Speaker 1: got to get a picture. We haven't had a picture

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Speaker 1: in front of it, but the name is still on

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Speaker 1: the stadium. But there was a Web three conference two

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Speaker 1: weeks ago that I participated in Mayor so far as spoken,

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Speaker 1: there's still quite the it was. It was full, I

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Speaker 1: was replised. I was at a conference in Vegas in October.

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Speaker 1: It was empty. It was full, and there's still quite

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Speaker 1: the positive attitude to the bigger picture. I think from

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Speaker 1: retail standpoint it's much different. From the institutional standpoint, it's

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Speaker 1: still quite we're building this. This is part of the

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Speaker 1: pain of a nascent asset technology, and unfortunately this is

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Speaker 1: just the extreme. But one thing I want to point

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Speaker 1: out is a lesson I learned, and I think y

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Speaker 1: SEC is good about this. The first day in the

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Speaker 1: border trade by the waterfront, I saw a note that

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Speaker 1: said the ultimate seduction of other people's money. And that's

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Speaker 1: what we're learning the lessons of now. So it's I mean,

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Speaker 1: trading crypto seems to to the Mike mclogans of the

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Speaker 1: world who have been trading you know, pork belly futures

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Speaker 1: and corn futures. I mean, it's all kind of there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of lessons that kind of you can learn from.

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Speaker 1: This kind of thing happens in a lot of assets.

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Speaker 1: And look, I'm still shocked that bitcoin is worth seventeen

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Speaker 1: and a half thousand dollars. I remember, you know, I

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Speaker 1: remember when U Joe Wisenthal said to me, Hey, if

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Speaker 1: you liked it at a thousand, you should like it

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Speaker 1: at two fifty. And I was like, I do, dude,

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Speaker 1: And I would back up the truck if it weren't

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Speaker 1: for you have a truck. My ethical um concerns, you can't,

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously report on an asset that you own. Now,

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Speaker 1: I kind of wish i'd thrown those ethical concerns to

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Speaker 1: the way, and you know, but but nonetheless, it's obviously

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Speaker 1: it's come down considerably from what was the high, like

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Speaker 1: sixty five, well that's appropriate, um so, down to seventeen

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Speaker 1: and a half, which was kind of like the last

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Speaker 1: peak right in two thousand seventeen, Mike, wasn't it wasn't

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Speaker 1: that where where it peaked and then it dropped back

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Speaker 1: down at three or four thousand. Yes, so I think

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Speaker 1: it's billion a foundation compared to that five thousand then,

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Speaker 1: which bottom at three thousand. So it might get as

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Speaker 1: well as twelve thousand. I'm not disputing that. Because this

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Speaker 1: is a bear market. There's a good reason for it,

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Speaker 1: but that's probably gonna be a foundation for the next

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Speaker 1: ten x rally, because the key thing that's really notable

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Speaker 1: this year is you look at open interest enlisted futures,

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Speaker 1: clearly your bull market Bitcoin. You look at open interest

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Speaker 1: at all the Camani's most nobly crude, which is why

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Speaker 1: been bear is clearly a bear market open interests. So

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Speaker 1: it's going institutional, it's taking time, and this is part

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Speaker 1: of the growing pains. The question is right now we

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Speaker 1: are an a massive bear market in all assets except

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Speaker 1: the one thing that are coming out of it and

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Speaker 1: showing signs of it is bonds and gold. Bitcoin is

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Speaker 1: still risk. As I want to just point out that

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Speaker 1: Maxine Waters has finished and now we're listening to Mr

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Speaker 1: mckenry um give his opening statements. Before we get to um,

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Speaker 1: what's his name, John Ray, John Jay Ray, the third

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Speaker 1: uh Sam Bank and Freed would have been testifying here,

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Speaker 1: but he was arrested. Like what Mr sam bankman Fried,

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Speaker 1: we would have wells draft remarks, so maybe we would

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Speaker 1: have seen some clauses fixed up and cleaned up. But

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Speaker 1: we did see the draft remark. He started by saying

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Speaker 1: he messed up. He used a different word and starts

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Speaker 1: off by dropping the f bomb, which is classic classic

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Speaker 1: kid Mike drop from the start, but then it kind

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Speaker 1: of goes a little bit off the rails. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he was still taking shots at c Z of course,

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Speaker 1: that is the CEO of Rival Exchange Finance. He also

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Speaker 1: talked about John J. Ray the Third, who is the

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Speaker 1: new CEO of f TX, saying that he's reached out

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Speaker 1: to Ray multiple times to offer to help to sift

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Speaker 1: through the wreckage the reporting the records. Apparently Ray hasn't

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Speaker 1: responded to five of Makemnfried's emails, so it's an interesting

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Speaker 1: a little bit of he said. He said, right, of course,

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Speaker 1: is going to testify today, so that's the main event,

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Speaker 1: so we'll see what he says. Well, and I mean,

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Speaker 1: what we're really waiting for. This is all interesting theater

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Speaker 1: and it'll be I think, in some ways fun for

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Speaker 1: those of us who are invested, um, not financially but

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Speaker 1: financial professionally. But what really matters, as Nathan pointed out,

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Speaker 1: is getting some uh indication of what regulation we're going

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Speaker 1: to see. And Nathan, you also drew an interesting distinction

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Speaker 1: I thought, between you know, the bitcoins and the dose

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Speaker 1: coins of the world and the tethers and usdcs right,

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Speaker 1: the stable coins are where we are likely to get

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Speaker 1: regulation first. What do we expect some real transparency there? Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: and don't be surprised if you see stable coins come

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Speaker 1: up quite a bit in this hearing today, because you know,

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Speaker 1: there is this bill out there that's being negotiated by

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Speaker 1: Chairwoman Mixing Waters, ranking Em mckenry the Treasury Department, and

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Speaker 1: this bill I actually think has a decent shot of

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Speaker 1: passage early next year. Wait, was this bill co authored

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Speaker 1: by Sam Bankman Fried? It was not, and so but

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Speaker 1: the House Financial Services Committee is using the FTX collapse

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Speaker 1: as a way to propel it's stable coin bill. This

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Speaker 1: bill actually started when the you know, when we had

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Speaker 1: the stable coin issues earlier this year. But this bill

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Speaker 1: at a high level would allow both bank issuers and

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Speaker 1: non bank issuers to register with regulators. There's still some

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Speaker 1: makeups over the non bank side, but it would also

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Speaker 1: allow stable coins to operate as long as they're backed

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Speaker 1: up a percent by high quality liquid assets. So don't

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Speaker 1: be surprised if you see a lot of stable coin language.

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Speaker 1: It's honestly they're just using this as a platform to

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Speaker 1: push forward the momentum on that the state the the

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Speaker 1: the ft X Bill, the Digital Commodities Consumer Protection Act.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's tainted. It's not going to go anywhere.

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Speaker 1: You're not even gonna be able to bring it back

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Speaker 1: with the same name. Certain provisions are going to be

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Speaker 1: in there, uh, you know, like solidifying Bitcoin and his

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Speaker 1: theorum as commodities, you know, giving the SEC control and

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Speaker 1: potentially you know, having a lot more custody uh discussions.

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Speaker 1: But I was talking to a brokerage earlier this week

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Speaker 1: and the gentleman said, you know, I've been doing custody

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Speaker 1: before computers were invented. So the ideas were actually are

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Speaker 1: still there. It's just Congress needs to get through the

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Speaker 1: system of trying to figure out how, okay, how do

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Speaker 1: we write the legislative language and get it to a

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Speaker 1: point where both Republicans and Democrats can agree. We invented computers.

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg invented computer We did built them. When I saw

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Speaker 1: the story today, I immediately sent it around to all

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Speaker 1: of my family. It's it's it's it's hugely hopeful. So

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Speaker 1: how far away do you think we are from an

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Speaker 1: actual on the market um medicine to to help, you know,

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Speaker 1: stop people dying from melanoma from cancer skin cancer. So

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Speaker 1: I think we're a few years away, and not five

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Speaker 1: or ten years. A few years away. I mean basically,

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Speaker 1: what we have to do in twenty three, based on

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Speaker 1: this great data and we know it's real because of

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Speaker 1: a P value is very statistically significant, is we're going

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Speaker 1: to start a phase free in melanoma three. I guess

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Speaker 1: he's gonna take twelve to eight moves to enroll, and

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Speaker 1: then we need to wait twelve months to get twelveth

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Speaker 1: of survival data and then find the super regulate all.

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Speaker 1: So that's a couple of years. Aware. Now that the

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Speaker 1: data is out, we're gonna go discussing with the f

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Speaker 1: D and over regulatory agencies to see is their way

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Speaker 1: to even accelerate that. So this is to be discussed well,

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Speaker 1: regulate alls. But that's for me nanoma. The great thing

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Speaker 1: about today is of course for all the families that

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Speaker 1: have you know, kind of a high risk government enoma.

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Speaker 1: But the great news for me today is I think

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Speaker 1: this is kind of immunotherapy two point zero because what

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Speaker 1: we saw over checkpoint and okate you dry and and

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Speaker 1: and all those medicines is a huge ability to impact

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Speaker 1: your immune system to kind of wake up your immune

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Speaker 1: system to go eat your cancer. But what we've shown

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Speaker 1: this morning for a first time in the history of

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Speaker 1: medicine is our ability to design a product for one

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Speaker 1: human being at the time where we could in our

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Speaker 1: medicine the mutation of your specific cancer. And we've shown

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Speaker 1: this morning, given the huge difference of recurrence and death,

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Speaker 1: we as SCATECH to drop a goal standard. We show

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Speaker 1: that we can teach your t sers which is part

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Speaker 1: of the immune system, to recognize your cancer and then

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Speaker 1: go eat it. And so I'm very excited about this.

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Speaker 1: Plus this is modern that technology. You know, we made

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Speaker 1: a lot of progressing then, so do I believe we

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Speaker 1: can do better? I do you know it took us

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Speaker 1: forty five days on average to get the drugs to

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Speaker 1: patients from a biopsy. I think you have a line

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Speaker 1: of site to thirty days that we save more lives,

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Speaker 1: and I want to keep pushing the team to even

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Speaker 1: go faster so that we can help as many people

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Speaker 1: as we can across many cancer types. So, Steven, I

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Speaker 1: mean this seems promising not just in fighting melanoma and

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Speaker 1: fighting skin cancer, but in fighting other cancers as well. Exactly,

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Speaker 1: So I think every solid tumor cancer is fair game now,

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Speaker 1: does he mean it's gonna work everywhere? We will have

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Speaker 1: to do the clinical studies. But the good news, given

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Speaker 1: the safety profile of a product was very good. The

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Speaker 1: safety profile of a combination modern aplust look very similar

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Speaker 1: to you draw alone. As you know, sometimes with combination

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Speaker 1: you see worst toxicity, and so we're not really viable

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Speaker 1: for patients. And so what's very exciting now is given

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Speaker 1: we are very strong data in a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: our goal is to run several phase freeze at the

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Speaker 1: same time in melanoma obviously, but we're working with colleagues

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Speaker 1: that mark to prioritize which over two most we start in.

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Speaker 1: As you know, cy Ray is using lung cancer and

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Speaker 1: breast cancer in Reynald cancer and many of our cancers,

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Speaker 1: and so we're gonna try those first. I also want

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Speaker 1: to explore what can we do to people that are

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Speaker 1: metastasies in the cancer I also want to explore in

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Speaker 1: our personalized cancer vaccident MODERNA alone. You have a great

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Speaker 1: news is we have now seventeen billion dollars of cash,

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Speaker 1: and so we want to invest that capital to make

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Speaker 1: new medicine. And this is a great place to invest

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Speaker 1: because there's a big medical need for cancer. Stephan talked

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Speaker 1: to us about the the size of this market. How

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Speaker 1: do you think about the opportunity for this particular therapeutic. So,

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Speaker 1: I think it's a very big US. One comparator is

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Speaker 1: Kate you drew our sales which is on the run

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Speaker 1: rate of sixteen billion dollar per year and analyst predicted

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Speaker 1: up to thirty billion by when Kit you Drew expires.

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Speaker 1: And so when you look at what k you do

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Speaker 1: I did, Let's go back a bit in history during

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Speaker 1: its face free Kit you do should a forty percent reduction.

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Speaker 1: We just standard of care then in terms of recurrence

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Speaker 1: and death on the same metrics we showed this morning

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Speaker 1: your forty four percent decrease because draw the new goal standards.

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Speaker 1: And so do I believe the opportunity of moderna PCV

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Speaker 1: down the road as we expand to more cancer types,

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Speaker 1: as we expend to metastatic stage, as we expand too

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Speaker 1: earlier cancer could be as big or even bigger and

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Speaker 1: Kit you draw, I do think so. So I think

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Speaker 1: it's a very large opportunity. Stuff And how is the

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Speaker 1: approval process evolved over the last several years since the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: When you interact with the FDA and you've done it

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Speaker 1: for obviously for for many many years, has it changed,

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Speaker 1: has it become perhaps easier, more streamline, and how are

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Speaker 1: you finding it? So I think the FDA first has

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Speaker 1: one an amazing job during the pandemic that we all

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Speaker 1: benefited from. I think the FDA has much better understanding

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Speaker 1: of modern as MN a platform. And I think the

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Speaker 1: f D now understand that this is a platform in

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Speaker 1: the early days if you want to award, of course,

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Speaker 1: to prove to the regulator, which both of you and

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Speaker 1: everybody wishes that are regulators do to protect all of us,

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Speaker 1: to get the clinical data to help us understand what

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Speaker 1: is similar between each drugs of MODERNA. The great news

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Speaker 1: about this product for cancer that we announced this morning

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Speaker 1: is it's one the same chemical matter for making the

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Speaker 1: AMOUNTY and spike BAX, the COVID nighting vaccine. It's the

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Speaker 1: same lipid chemical, it's the same manufacturing process. So think

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Speaker 1: about the comfort in terms of safety of a product

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Speaker 1: that this provides the regulator and us. So I think

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Speaker 1: the FDA as really a much better understanding of EMMA

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Speaker 1: only as a technology. Then they did a few years

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Speaker 1: ago because we were not able to provide them the

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Speaker 1: data that we have since stuff. And in terms of

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Speaker 1: you know, other cancer treatments, how do you think this

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Speaker 1: will evolve over the next several years. I mean, obviously,

429
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,159
Speaker 1: the news you have today with your drug as it

430
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 1: relates to me melanomas is a big step forward. And

431
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 1: she stepped back and think about cancer broadly defined. How

432
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,199
Speaker 1: do you think you and your colleagues in in the

433
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 1: biotech and pharmaceutical industries will be attacking cancer? Sure? I

434
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 1: think we've made two significant scientific massive step forward in

435
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,439
Speaker 1: the last let's say five to ten years. One is

436
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: we now believe a scientific community that cancer is always

437
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 1: a disease of mutation of your DNA. So that's an

438
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 1: important thing because once you understand thing in science, you

439
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 1: are smarter at what tools are deploy to go after

440
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 1: a problem. And so that's a big deal. That's just

441
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 1: where we were twenty or fty years ago when we

442
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 1: kind of no idea where fully was canceled. The second

443
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 1: piece is we were so really understood the role of

444
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 1: the immune system. Because what we know today is we

445
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 1: all have cancers all the time. I've had cancer all

446
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 1: the time in my life, since I was on the

447
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,679
Speaker 1: planet in a fifty f last fifty years. But because

448
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: my immune system was able right from the time one

449
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 1: cell in my body becomes cancerous ying mutation, because it's

450
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 1: a healthy cell that my immune system was able to

451
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 1: identify it and take care of it really quickly. Well,

452
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: when your immune system is not healthy because we age,

453
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 1: because we have a lot of stress in all life,

454
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: because we're not healthy in term of physical health, mental health,

455
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: sleep and all those good stuff that is really important

456
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: for for immune health, well you might have one cancer

457
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 1: cell that happiest in your body that your immne system misses,

458
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 1: and that cancer cell becomes two and fall and becomes

459
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: a tumor. And so what is very significant about those

460
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 1: two scientific understanding is once you understand this, you can

461
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 1: and go after a solution. So if you figure about

462
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: iminotherapy one point zero the checkpoints the kids to draw

463
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 1: this world, it was about how do you give a

464
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: big kick in the immune system to kind of quote

465
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 1: and quote wake it up to say, hey, guys, you

466
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 1: meet something, go go find the thing you missed. And

467
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: we've seen amazing progress. As I said, the phase three

468
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: min anama of kids. You drive alone at the time

469
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 1: was forty percent production of recurrence and death. Amazing. Well,

470
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: the piece we're adding today to arsenal against cancer that

471
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: we have disability to know for a fact, that we

472
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 1: can teach your T cell might ty cells to recognize

473
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 1: mutation that it has missed. So that's that's huge. And

474
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 1: then I think the entire field is going to play

475
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: around those different dimensions to think about what are the

476
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: things we can combine to get your body the toolday

477
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: needs to go and eat your cancer, because that's really

478
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: the best thing, especially for people that I met, the

479
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: static stage where you have two mols around your bodies

480
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: because you you cancer is spreading. Disability to teach the

481
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: immane system how to go clean it up is what

482
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: I think is really the future of cancer. Let me

483
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: ask you switch directions a little and ask you a

484
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: little bit about COVID, because I know that you are

485
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: in discussions to provide the Chinese with your vaccine um.

486
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 1: What does it look like on the ground there as

487
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: they start to open up? Is it going to spread rapidly?

488
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 1: So as you see and its reported in the media,

489
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,360
Speaker 1: it is spreading rapidly, which was expected by every scientist

490
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: I talked to internally at moderna or externally because as

491
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: we know, the current vaccine that we're using in China

492
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 1: didn't have a great efficacy, a lot of people did

493
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: not take them, and the like in the US or

494
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 1: in Europe or I would say most of the rest

495
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: of the world where a lot of people vaccinated or

496
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: unvaccinated got infected. And when you get infected, it only

497
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: acts like a booster because you show your immune system

498
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: how to to to to deal with the virus. And

499
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: so I think the challenge that is for Chinese people

500
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 1: but also the world because of our economy is being

501
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: so intertwined with each other, is that you're going to

502
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: see a very fast bread of cases. Unfortunately, you know,

503
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: I think people at high risk are gonna you know,

504
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 1: be very sick, some of them most bitteralized, some of

505
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: them dying. So I'm kind of worried about where this

506
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: is going. This was talked about again for a long time,

507
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: the immunity coal background of China because of uh, not

508
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 1: great vaccines in the past and not infection is going

509
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: to be He's gonna be complicated. What about delivering vaccines

510
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: to the you know, massive population um, Have you got

511
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: the capacity to do that quickly? Will you have partners

512
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: in providing them vaccines? How quickly will you be able

513
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: to get the vaccines to them? What's what's the what's

514
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: it looked like? So the temple we already be dictated

515
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: by the Chinese of aurities, because like in every country

516
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 1: in the world, we need regulatory approval to have the

517
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: right to imported product and then with of course, the

518
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: authorities for deployment. So the temple is reset up by

519
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 1: the Chinese authorities and discussions are ongoing. In terms of manufacturing.

520
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: The good news is that, if you think about it,

521
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: we have shipped most of our demand for the winter

522
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: in the West already, We've shipped most of a vaccine

523
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: into the US, into Europe, into Japan and Zon. So

524
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: you have the ensil manufacturing engine of MODELNA both in

525
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: the US and in Switzerland that can be deployed for China.

526
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: So we're literally talking, you know, many hundreds of millions

527
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: of those is could be made available quickly, even Chinese

528
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: governments wanted. So, but will you produce vaccines for China

529
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: here or in Twitzerland or will the Chinese government request

530
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 1: that you produce them locally? So if a request is

531
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 1: to be made locally for this season. It's impossible to

532
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: set up you know, clean rooms and transfer the technology

533
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 1: and so on in matter of a couple of moss.

534
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: And we need to move very quickly to the winter.

535
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: In China. It's an oven themisphere. Chinese New Year is

536
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: coming very soon, as you know, where a lot of

537
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: families migrate and move and spend time together like all Thanksgiving,

538
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: all Christmas, and so I think the timelines of local

539
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 1: manufacturing is just not physically possible for this season. It

540
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: will have to be out of the U S or Switzerland.

541
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 1: We will be very happy to discuss about setting up

542
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: manufacturing facility for next year in China and to bring

543
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: the technology to China, but it's just not possible this year.

544
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 1: So stuff on. What have your discussion has been with

545
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: China over the last several years. Has it been one

546
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: of they did not want to import an international solution

547
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: such as moderness or did they feel like they're vaccine

548
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: was good enough and maybe how those discussions changed. So

549
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: we have a discussion with China since the pandemic started,

550
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: as you know, nothing has happened so far we have

551
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: all vaccine or or the over a money vaccine. I

552
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: cannot come on discussions with sovereign as we never do

553
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: it with any sovereign go on mat As you can understand,

554
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: we are actively engaged with them to figure out can

555
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: we be helpful to the situation developing under our eyes

556
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: right now? How do you expect this too from a

557
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: timing perspective, because as you mentioned just recently, I mean

558
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: we are in December, I mean, and this is kind

559
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,239
Speaker 1: of we're right into the cold and flu and now

560
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: COVID season. I guess we can put that and included

561
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: as well. So it's almost like this year it may

562
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: be too late. Are you more? Is it planning more

563
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: about next year? So I think it's not going to

564
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: be too late in the sense that because so many

565
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: people have not been infect tailed. I think every day matter,

566
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: every week matter. So I think saying let's throw it

567
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: to our along finea now and wait for a full

568
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: of twenty three is a public health mistake which I

569
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: hope will not happen for the sake of a Chinese

570
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: people and the sake of the world. Um, what we

571
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: definitely need to do is as so prepare for next year.

572
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: But the first thing first is really this season. UM,

573
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: because as we've seen in the West, you see massive

574
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: flu and still increasing massive ice V strap COVID. So

575
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: as many scientists in the public health worre then in

576
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: companies like ours, have been saying for quite a while

577
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: this winter was gonna be tough. And you know it's

578
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: only early December. We already see no numbers increasing after Thanksgiving,

579
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: Christmas is around the corner, and the New Year holiday

580
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,479
Speaker 1: and parties, and I think that we're gonna have very

581
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: complicated January and February in the West like we're would

582
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: have been China. Still too many people have not got

583
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: their omicron specific booster. It's really sad because there's plenty

584
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: of vaccines in US and Europe available in pharmacist, most

585
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: people are not getting them and a lot of people

586
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: are going to get hurt because of it. All right,

587
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: Stefan Bancell, thank you so much for joining us. We

588
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: really appreciate getting your time. Stefan Bancell, chief executive officer

589
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: from Moderner. Was some really positive news coming out on

590
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: melanoma and other answer treatments. We appreciate your time. Thank you.

591
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: All right, let's bring in any Massa. She covers all

592
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: this stuff. For Bloomberg News, and Barry Ridholtz is in

593
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: studio as well, chairman of Redholts Wealth Management, and he's

594
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: got some podcast thing that he does all the time.

595
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: We've gotta like a huge Masters in Business and what

596
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: do you think? What is the current sense of what's

597
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: happening at f t X. Sam Bankman freed a lot

598
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: of news in the last twenty four hours. So what's

599
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: happened today is we've finally had regulators come in and

600
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: bring charges against um SPF, and we've got now from

601
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: the SEC and CFTC more detailed information, some of which

602
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: was bubbling up and coming to light, but we really

603
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: have the SEC's account of what was happening at f

604
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: t X as well as the d o j's charges

605
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: that have been brought against um SPF, and uh some

606
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: of the details in there are pretty striking. You see

607
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: the comingling of funds between f t X and Alameda.

608
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: Basically from the outset f t X UM was allowing

609
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: ALAM to to siphon its customers funds away to make

610
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: risky bats and fuel political spending, personal lavish real estate

611
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: spending on SBS account and really that customer money was

612
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: just going straight into Alimy at his hands. So Barry

613
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: when you see this, you know, and I don't know.

614
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: To me, I just felt like I was witnessed. We

615
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: are witnessing a new asset class being born. And I

616
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: don't know what today's action means. The arrest of Sandbank,

617
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: ben Freed, the you know, the indictments, the testimony in

618
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: front of Congress, how do you put that in context

619
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: for what appears to be an asset class trying to

620
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: be created evolved? Yeah? It to me, this is very

621
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: reminiscent of the MF Global debaccle. If you remember about

622
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: a decade ago, they made a lot of risky bits

623
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: and when the margin calls came due, they said, hey,

624
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: clients have all this cass sending their accounts, let's use

625
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: some of that, which, in case you're living under rock,

626
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: is very much not allowed by anybody anywhere regardless. And

627
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: so if you let something like that happen, you go

628
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: to jail for life. Right, what happened with MF Global

629
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: didn't appear that anybody ended up going to jail. Some

630
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: people got banned, and I believe the vast majority of

631
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: those borrowed assets were recovered. Um here it seems like

632
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: the same sort of there's some money sending in clients accounts,

633
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: and even though we were never given permission to borrow this,

634
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: there's no margin, there's no rational basis for touching this cash.

635
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: We're gonna take it because we need it. Uh. The

636
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: question here is how much of that will be recovered?

637
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: And and you know the early outlines up here that

638
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: it's you know, uh, tens of billions of dollars that

639
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: are missing. And how much of that is ever gonna

640
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: be retraced is really the big question. It's the most

641
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: fascinating thing about this is why when you look at

642
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: ftfs in the Bahamas really not a U S jurisdiction

643
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 1: and and not the normal sort of thing that the

644
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: SEC or the Justice Department investigates. The vast majority of

645
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: their assets were not American. It was other countries. And

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00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: do we have any sense of what's next for Sam

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00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: Bankman Freed. I saw some footage just from some sources

648
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: of him, you know, in the in I guess the

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00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: custody of the Bahaming authorities to we know what's next.

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00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: So Sam was arrested last night in the Bahamas, and

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00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: the next step would be extradition to the US it

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00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: seems given the criminal charges against him, and uh, you know,

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00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: we'll see where we go from there. Was the timing?

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00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: Is the timing strike you as on I talked to

655
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: Barry already and he said no, but yeah, because he

656
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 1: gets like we were waiting for him to get arrested

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00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: for weeks. He wasn't. He was going out doing tons

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00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: of media interview use and having text chats with his

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00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: friends at Fox and stuff. But then all of a

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00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: sudden or Vice, either Box or Vice, I can't remember.

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00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: All of a sudden, Um, you know, hours before he's

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00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: going to testify in front of Congress, he's arrested, effectively muzzled.

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00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 1: Um does that not strike you as at least curious timing?

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00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: The timing is interesting. I don't have any authoritative info

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00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 1: on why exactly that happened. Of course people have wondered why,

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00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: but he certainly is out there on the record long

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00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: before being muzzled with plenty of incriminating material. Alright, Any Massa,

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00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate that any Massa.

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg News Battery, Red Holtz Master's in Business Podcasts and

670
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,439
Speaker 1: Red Holts Wealth Management both joining us here round table

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00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 1: and quickly on this crypto stuff. Thanks for listening to

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00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to

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00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you for her.

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00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller N

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00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: seventy three, and I'm Fall Sweeney. I'm on Twitter at

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00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can always catch us

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00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:10,919
Speaker 1: worldwide at Bloomberg Radio