Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser. Every day
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Speaker 1: Global News. Global virus cases him nine one million topping
Speaker 1: million deaths, surpassing one million vaccines given out more than
Speaker 1: twenty nine million shots given worldwide. Cannot come soon enough
Speaker 1: to vaccine for for widespread vaccination, I should say exactly,
Speaker 1: and figures cross that it continues to pick up speed.
Speaker 1: Back with us is Dr Sandro Golea. He's Dina Professor
Speaker 1: at Boston University School of Public Health, author of Pained
Speaker 1: Uncomfortable Conversations about the Public's health. He joins us once
Speaker 1: again on the phone from Boston. Dr Golea, nice to
Speaker 1: have you here, Happy New Year. How are you tell
Speaker 1: me kind of what's going on in your world from
Speaker 1: an academic level as all, as well as from what
Speaker 1: you're seeing on the vaccine in COVID. Happy New Year, Carol,
Speaker 1: and happy new year, kim. Um. I am, I am.
Speaker 1: As we've discussed on the show before, I'm unfortunately well
Speaker 1: and my family as well. And these are these are
Speaker 1: difficult times. I find myself entering the new year with
Speaker 1: an equal mix of trepidation and hope, and on any
Speaker 1: given day, I try to make sure that hope overtakes trepidation.
Speaker 1: Now you know why trepidation, Well, we have a lot
Speaker 1: of challenges we're still facing as a country, separate and
Speaker 1: apart from the politics that we are all living through.
Speaker 1: We COVID remains a really important problem. The economy, which
Speaker 1: is a result of COVID remains an important problem. And
Speaker 1: and all of this, as we've discussed, is on a
Speaker 1: foundation of structural issues like racism that we have been
Speaker 1: dealing with as a country for a long time. So
Speaker 1: I think those things all give me trepidation. All of
Speaker 1: a sudden, I want you for an hour. I'm just
Speaker 1: going to tell you, um, Sandral, let me ask you
Speaker 1: something though. What we saw last tweak obviously the dysfunction
Speaker 1: um that I think it's safe to say has been
Speaker 1: caused by our president, whether it's internally within the government
Speaker 1: and then more more broadly across society. How do you
Speaker 1: think that has hindered in some ways the rollout of
Speaker 1: the COVID nineteen vaccine. I think enormously. I don't think
Speaker 1: we can over overstate how much lack of federal leadership
Speaker 1: has hindered their response to COVID. We've vaccinated about nine
Speaker 1: million people in the country right now, and if we
Speaker 1: keep vaccinating at this rate, it will take us two
Speaker 1: years before we vaccinated the whole country, which of course
Speaker 1: is unacceptable. And remember this is in the in the
Speaker 1: context of a lot of promises that have been made
Speaker 1: by the by the executive branch. So politics has been
Speaker 1: an integral part of the COVID story right from the beginning.
Speaker 1: It has been a part of the story as to
Speaker 1: why we separated from who, has been part of the
Speaker 1: story why half the country doesn't seem to believe that
Speaker 1: COVID is a real thing. It's been part of the
Speaker 1: story as to why we do or don't go a
Speaker 1: vaccine or masks. And I think it's a real reminder. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, Rudolf Rca, one of the fathers of microbiology,
Speaker 1: said that medicine is politics on a grand scale, and
Speaker 1: we've never seen that more clearly than we have in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. I'm wondering about the rollout of vaccine right
Speaker 1: now here we are, we're almost exactly a month into
Speaker 1: when that first shot was given. What have we learned
Speaker 1: about the right way to give people the vaccine? And
Speaker 1: I mean age wise, profession wise, what is the right approach? Well, fundamentally,
Speaker 1: our priorities are right, and by that I mean that
Speaker 1: we are prioritizing healthcare workers and people at highest risk,
Speaker 1: and those are people at the older age groups and
Speaker 1: people with underlying conditions. So I think all of that
Speaker 1: we have the concepts correct. I think what where we're
Speaker 1: stumbling is really at the implementation and the programatics. So
Speaker 1: a couple of things that we've learned. Number one is
Speaker 1: that the guidelines are being interpreted very strictly in clinics
Speaker 1: and hospitals and nursing homes, which means that a lot
Speaker 1: of vaccine is going unused because there are not enough
Speaker 1: people in that risk category greed to get the vaccine.
Speaker 1: In that particular spot and that care needs to be loosen.
Speaker 1: And number two, we are realizing that the vaccine distribution
Speaker 1: is going through these formal channels of hospitals and nursing homes,
Speaker 1: and it's not happening fast enough to get to the
Speaker 1: people who are at high risk, people over a certain age,
Speaker 1: and people with underlying conditions. And there are states that
Speaker 1: have done well, you know, we shouldn't forget that. For example,
Speaker 1: West Virginia had vaccinated everybody in its in its assistant
Speaker 1: living facilities nursing homes before Christmas, which is quite remarkable,
Speaker 1: and they did that by contracting out the CPS and Walgreens.
Speaker 1: Other states have taken approaches that are right now controversial,
Speaker 1: for example Florida creating large vaccination sides for people over
Speaker 1: the age of six to five. But ultimately the right
Speaker 1: answer has to be determined state by state. But it's
Speaker 1: pretty clear to me that we need to make sure
Speaker 1: that the vaccine is available very very quickly, with criteria
Speaker 1: that are clear about who's prioritized, but flexible enough to
Speaker 1: make sure that the vaccine can be delivered quickly. In
Speaker 1: a particular context, we are also seeing a little bit
Speaker 1: of hesitancy from healthcare workers. The reporting shows that it's
Speaker 1: not necessarily doctors, but different people who work at long
Speaker 1: term care facilities and hospitals as well. What's the right
Speaker 1: messaging to make sure that they're fully informed on why
Speaker 1: they should get the vaccine. I think the messaging is simple,
Speaker 1: that the vaccine is safe, it's effective, and fundamentally doesn't
Speaker 1: just help the personnel takes them, it helps the rest
Speaker 1: of us remember what we're trying to achieve as collective immunity.
Speaker 1: So tim you're being vaccinated helps me, My being vaccinator
Speaker 1: helps Carol. And I think there is a personal need
Speaker 1: to take the vaccine to make sure that would protect ourselves,
Speaker 1: but also a collective obligation to take the vaccine to
Speaker 1: improve our collective immunity. And I think that message I
Speaker 1: suppose I go back to where I started, Carol, with
Speaker 1: my mix of trepidation and hope. My hope is that
Speaker 1: in the next few weeks, the common sense is going
Speaker 1: to prevail that enough people will recognize that we are
Speaker 1: dealing with a safe, effective vaccine to help us end
Speaker 1: a really terrible pandemic that has paralyzed the world. And
Speaker 1: we're going to see much less of that hesitancy and
Speaker 1: weeks going forward. I do want to ask you and
Speaker 1: I have to say, um, Dr Galaia, Tim and I
Speaker 1: kind of went back and forth. Do we want to
Speaker 1: bring this up? But it is the second most read
Speaker 1: story on the Bloomberg. It's from the New York Times
Speaker 1: and it talks about a Florida physician who developed an
Speaker 1: unusual blood disorder shortly after he received the Fiser vaccine.
Speaker 1: Not yet known if the shot is linked um to
Speaker 1: the illness, and he did die from an unusually severe
Speaker 1: blood disorder sixteen days after receiving that vaccine. Help me
Speaker 1: out here. How are we to be smart about when
Speaker 1: we hear stories like this? Yeah, that's an excellent question.
Speaker 1: The what we have to remember is that that when
Speaker 1: you're giving vaccines to millions of people, the vaccine is
Speaker 1: a point in time and other things are going on
Speaker 1: to people's lives that precipitate illness. So it becomes very
Speaker 1: difficult for us as humans to say, well, the vaccine happened,
Speaker 1: and something bad happened, Well, therefore the vaccine must have
Speaker 1: caused it. The reassurance we have is that these vaccines
Speaker 1: that are in the market right now we're tested on
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of people. Literally, the side effects are
Speaker 1: every single one is monitored carefully by a review committee,
Speaker 1: and there's been nothing in the trials that suggests that
Speaker 1: these vaccines cause these kind of severe illnesses like the
Speaker 1: one that's being right now discussed as potentially being in
Speaker 1: conjunction with somebody who took the vaccine. So this is true,
Speaker 1: This is true for all vaccines. And a lot of
Speaker 1: the anti vaccine movement that was really triggered by some
Speaker 1: shoddy science around children who took vaccines and then developed autism,
Speaker 1: And the science has now pretty conclusively demonstrated that the
Speaker 1: development of autism terrible diagnosis, really had nothing to do
Speaker 1: with taking the vaccine. It was These were diagnosies that
Speaker 1: were going to happen anyway, and the vaccine was just
Speaker 1: one of a series of events. To think of it
Speaker 1: another way, if somebody develops a disease, well, we seldom
Speaker 1: go back and think of the fact, well they crossed
Speaker 1: the street two weeks before, and and of course if
Speaker 1: we if we actually focused on cross industry, would they say, well,
Speaker 1: that person developed developed the disease because he crossed the street.
Speaker 1: Now I'm not saying that to minimize and I really
Speaker 1: want to be careful that I what misunderstood, because I
Speaker 1: do think that in a moment like this, all those
Speaker 1: cases should be taken seriously and the signs should be
Speaker 1: looking very carefully to make sure that there's nothing we're missing.
Speaker 1: But there are systems in place, and we as a
Speaker 1: country are very good at looking at these cases and
Speaker 1: making sure that there's nothing that we're missing. And Dr Glaia.
Speaker 1: We should note that the article goes further to point
Speaker 1: out that roughly nine million people here in the US
Speaker 1: have received the vaccine already, and as far as side
Speaker 1: effects go, the most serious problems recorded reported were these
Speaker 1: twenty nine cases of anaphylaxis, that's the severe allergic reaction,
Speaker 1: and none of those were fatal. Remind us, did you
Speaker 1: get and and those and those were among people are
Speaker 1: and those were among people who previously had history of
Speaker 1: an ephylaxis and allergic reactions to think, sorry, go ahead them. No.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna remind us, did you get vaccinated yet? No?
Speaker 1: I have not. I'm I don't. I'm not patient facing,
Speaker 1: meaning you know, I run a school of public health
Speaker 1: and although a lot of our students and the number
Speaker 1: of faculty deal with patients. I don't on a day
Speaker 1: to day basis, so I'm not in the in the
Speaker 1: high risk category. So I will I will wait my
Speaker 1: turn when that comes in a few months. But you
Speaker 1: would be comfortable getting any of these vaccines that are
Speaker 1: available and have been tested now. Oh, if I if
Speaker 1: I could get the vaccine tomorrow, I would, But I
Speaker 1: also I also want to respect the fact that there
Speaker 1: are people who are higher risk than I am, and
Speaker 1: they should get the vaccine first. But if if if
Speaker 1: the vaccine were we able tomorrow, I would, I would
Speaker 1: need it because I would like to make sure that
Speaker 1: I'm no longer at risk of getting COVID, and I
Speaker 1: think all all your listeners should feel the same way. Listen,
Speaker 1: before we leave, we'd be remiss if we didn't ask
Speaker 1: you forty five seconds here, Um, what's going on at
Speaker 1: Boston University School of Public cath or you bring students back?
Speaker 1: What's the expectation? And just got about forty five seconds. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The our current our current thinking is to do what
Speaker 1: we did in the fall, which is where we create
Speaker 1: an opportunity for students to learn in person if they
Speaker 1: if they need to learn in person. We will teach
Speaker 1: some students in person, some digitally, so it will be
Speaker 1: a bit of and mix. But many universities, for example,
Speaker 1: like Princeton and Brown, who who they were not in
Speaker 1: person in the fall, are now coming back in the
Speaker 1: spring and doing just that, which is saying to students,
Speaker 1: if you need to learn in person, your circumstances are
Speaker 1: such that you need to be here in person will
Speaker 1: create those conditions for you, and the students who want
Speaker 1: to learn from home can learn from home. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much. Always learn us so much when you come
Speaker 1: on with us. So thank you so much. Stay safe
Speaker 1: and look forward to next time. Dr Sandra Gala, he's
Speaker 1: dean at the Boston University School of Public Health. On
Speaker 1: the phone from Boston, and do check out his book.
Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about the inequities when it comes
Speaker 1: to health care. He's written a book it's called Pained
Speaker 1: Uncomfortable Conversations about the Public's Health. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: I feel like a conversation we have to continue to have. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think one thing that's become clear is that the
Speaker 1: pandemic has exposed so much about our society that so
Speaker 1: many people were familiar with but we're finally having a
Speaker 1: conversation of about the inequities and inequalities within our health
Speaker 1: care system and perhaps what we can do to finally
Speaker 1: start to address those. Yeah, life at large, and hopefully
Speaker 1: those conversations lead to actions. This is Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: with Carol Messer from Bloomberg Radio. Spotify it's the most
Speaker 1: popular paid music service in the world. Stock swored something
Speaker 1: like a ten percent last year, It's up another nine
Speaker 1: percent so far this year, and yet kind of little thing.
Speaker 1: It hasn't turned a profit since it's founding back in
Speaker 1: two thousand six, So what is it's big better profitability?
Speaker 1: This story covers that reporting for Bloomberg Business Week, Lucas Shaw,
Speaker 1: he is Bloomberg News Entertainment reporter on the phone in
Speaker 1: l a along with Bloomberg Business Week editor Joe Weber
Speaker 1: on the access line in Brooklyn. This is such a
Speaker 1: smart story, really everything and anything you want to know
Speaker 1: about Spotify and it's plans to be profitable. Joel. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And if I rewind my relationship with with Lucas, I
Speaker 1: think the very first time I met him, when I
Speaker 1: like took over Bloomberg Business Week, he like stopped me
Speaker 1: in my tracks, and we just he was like podcast
Speaker 1: man podcast and he's he's so right, and and this
Speaker 1: story is a modest reflection of it. And the you know,
Speaker 1: the thing that I kind of love about it is,
Speaker 1: you know, Spotify has long been a music service, and
Speaker 1: along that way they realize that music is actually not
Speaker 1: that profitable. A lot of that revenue ends up having
Speaker 1: to go back to the record labels, and they've been
Speaker 1: unsuccessful at really um being able to like have artists
Speaker 1: come directly to them. But what they've realized is that
Speaker 1: podcasts have gigantic revenue potential. So so Lucas Joe Rogan
Speaker 1: is the thing that everybody knows. But what does Spotify
Speaker 1: having the works? Spotify has plans for any kind of
Speaker 1: show you can think of, and then ten other kinds
Speaker 1: of shows you probably never thought about. I mean, they
Speaker 1: bought Bill Simmons company. He hosts a very popular sports podcast,
Speaker 1: and they're now working on dozens of different sports and
Speaker 1: pop culture shows. They have, you know, Jamal Hill coming
Speaker 1: into work on network of shows and buy for Black Women.
Speaker 1: They have Michelle Obama, they have to do con Dutchess
Speaker 1: of Pussics. They make kind of really cheaply made true
Speaker 1: crime shows. They're working on shows all of the world,
Speaker 1: both as originals and translations. You know, think about the
Speaker 1: exhaustion you feel trying to consider how many different TV
Speaker 1: shows are available right now, and then multiply that times
Speaker 1: about a hundred or a thousands for podcasts. So for years,
Speaker 1: Lucas this was a sort of idea of experience when
Speaker 1: it came to music streaming services, right the same music
Speaker 1: was offered on Apple Music that was offered on Spotify
Speaker 1: that some people had title whatever YouTuber Google was calling that,
Speaker 1: you know, their current music service had the same music.
Speaker 1: Um but now it seems to have changed because of
Speaker 1: of podcasts. Do you see this sort of evolving in
Speaker 1: the way that streaming video services have evolved, where if
Speaker 1: you want to listen to Joe Rogan or if you
Speaker 1: want to listen to Michelle Obama, the only place to
Speaker 1: do that ultimately will be with a Spotify subscription. I
Speaker 1: think it'll be very similar to just streaming TV, but
Speaker 1: with a slight change in that some of the podcasts
Speaker 1: may still to be available everywhere. There is not a
Speaker 1: dominant player in podcasting it. Spotify is not there yet,
Speaker 1: especially not in the US, and so for some shows
Speaker 1: it it really hurts their potential audience size to only
Speaker 1: be there. But you'll see them play with windows of exclusivity,
Speaker 1: and there's lots of different forms of that. So the
Speaker 1: Michelle Obama podcast started as a Spotify exclusive. Now that
Speaker 1: it's it's been off for several months and Spotify sort
Speaker 1: of sucked up all the potential customers. It has been
Speaker 1: distributed more widely in other places. A show like The Rewatchables,
Speaker 1: which Bill Simmons company makes, where they kind of talk
Speaker 1: about old movies. All those new episodes are available everywhere,
Speaker 1: but if you want to go back and listen to
Speaker 1: any of the older episodes, you have to go to Spotify.
Speaker 1: So I think we're gonna see a lot of playing
Speaker 1: with that, and definitely Spotify competitors are starting to do
Speaker 1: the same. You know, Amazon just bought Wondering, which is
Speaker 1: a podcast studio and has struck rights for exclusive shows.
Speaker 1: Apple has a handful of exclusive shows. But I think
Speaker 1: we're going to see them really increase that investment at
Speaker 1: point in the next twelve eighteen months, just under Rewatchable,
Speaker 1: as I highly recommend the point break episode that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so good but but Lucas, you you brought up
Speaker 1: a couple of competitors there, and you know, Apple is
Speaker 1: one that I'm I'm really curious about because you know,
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago when they spun off podcasts
Speaker 1: as a separate thing from from iTunes, this was before
Speaker 1: sort of Apple Music. They sort of had a missed
Speaker 1: opportunity there, and it seems like Spotify is really doubled
Speaker 1: down on it and by making uh podcasts such as
Speaker 1: Steamless part of the user interface. So so who's who's
Speaker 1: ultimately the on the team within Spotify. That's that's you know,
Speaker 1: cracked this code. Well, it started with an executive named
Speaker 1: Courtney Holt, I would say, who joined after a long
Speaker 1: career in media. He dabbled in trying to make original
Speaker 1: videos work at Spotify and thenically glommed onto this idea
Speaker 1: of building a podcasting apparatus. He knew he was smart
Speaker 1: enough to kind of know what he didn't know, and
Speaker 1: so he went out kind of armed with the checkbook
Speaker 1: to buy a bunch of companies that were studios they
Speaker 1: could bring in to create the infrastructure right away. So
Speaker 1: they bought Gimlet Media, which is a really good podcast
Speaker 1: studio based in New York, perhaps best known for the
Speaker 1: show Reply All. The guys who were on Gimlet Media
Speaker 1: are now Spotify employees are overseeing a lot of the
Speaker 1: podcasting business, not just Gimlet. They bought podcast which was
Speaker 1: another studio based in Los Angeles. They bought Anchor, which
Speaker 1: was the technology company they brought in again, they bought
Speaker 1: the Simon company, and so they have you know, there's
Speaker 1: a whole new part of that business. I was talking
Speaker 1: with somebody on the music side recently to acknowledge that
Speaker 1: there were hundreds of Spotify employees and an entire group
Speaker 1: and teams that they didn't know and they almost never
Speaker 1: interfaced with. And it's it's a really you know, it's
Speaker 1: a bet the company kind of move for Spotify. So
Speaker 1: I gotta ask you. I mean mentioned uh coming in
Speaker 1: the stock up more last year or so. Investors are
Speaker 1: kind of betting big. They've got expectations, Um, Lucas, have
Speaker 1: they cracked the code from becoming profitable based on all
Speaker 1: of your reporting. I gotta say, those ad insertions, of
Speaker 1: streaming ad insertions drive me crazy. Um, but if you're
Speaker 1: paying for it, it does, right, Yeah, So I do
Speaker 1: wonder like, have they cracked the code? The way I
Speaker 1: like to think about it is that that Daniel Act,
Speaker 1: Spotifies CEO, has bought himself time to figure it out.
Speaker 1: They definitely have not cracked the code yet. Podcasting is
Speaker 1: still a very small business. Um, and I agree that
Speaker 1: kind of delivering at people who pay for Spotify premium
Speaker 1: is something that they might have to work on in
Speaker 1: the future. But what they're trying to do is to
Speaker 1: just continue to get bigger and bigger. Spotify now has
Speaker 1: more than three hundred million customers, more than forty million paid.
Speaker 1: If they can get to five hundred million US six
Speaker 1: hundred million, seven hundred millions, that becomes so big that
Speaker 1: I just think that advertisers have to take it seriously
Speaker 1: and you'll see more of that money shift over from radio,
Speaker 1: because radio, for all of its problems in the U.
Speaker 1: S Alone, is like at fifteen billion dollar business. If
Speaker 1: Spotify can take five billion of that money at a
Speaker 1: better margin than has on On on the paid service,
Speaker 1: right then it becomes a real business. We're just not
Speaker 1: there yet. Yeah, Well, expectations are definitely high on Wall Street. Um.
Speaker 1: It's an incredible story. There's so much detail, it's such
Speaker 1: a smart read and another great report by Lucas Shaw. Lucas,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Entertainment reporter at Bloomberg News with
Speaker 1: us on the phone from l A. Check them out
Speaker 1: at Twitter at Lucas Underscore Shaw. Jill Webber, of course,
Speaker 1: editor of Bloomberg Business Week on the remote Access from Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovy on Bloomberg Radio, you are
Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg Business Week and a top story today
Speaker 1: because I think it's safe to say that many of
Speaker 1: us believe that in figuring out what would wrong last Wednesday,
Speaker 1: the riot and breaching of the capital, we need to
Speaker 1: understand those that did it, ask the question why, and
Speaker 1: we need to talk to them. Tim, Yeah, we do. Um.
Speaker 1: This was just a fascinating piece by our colleague William Turton.
Speaker 1: No regrets a capital riot or tells his story from
Speaker 1: the inside, and I think a lot of people are
Speaker 1: wondering what were these people thinking. Unfortunately, we have William
Speaker 1: with us to really help shine a light on that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's on the phone in New York City. The story
Speaker 1: among the most right on the Bloomberg. Williams, so good
Speaker 1: to have you here. It's a must read for everyone.
Speaker 1: So tell us about the individual that you talked to.
Speaker 1: Brandon Fellows. Hi, thanks for having me on. So. Brendon
Speaker 1: Fellows is a twenty six year old from upstate New
Speaker 1: York who decided to go to the Trump rally when
Speaker 1: he saw a tweet from President Trump in December he
Speaker 1: said there's going to be a big rally on the
Speaker 1: sixth and DC. He said, to be there. It will
Speaker 1: be wild. So when when Fellows saw that tweet, he
Speaker 1: decided to go to DC. And you know, something really
Speaker 1: revealing that he told me is that, you know, while
Speaker 1: he does believe the election was rigged and he had
Speaker 1: has been, you know, consuming a lot of content about
Speaker 1: electand fraud, his primary motivation was his anger at government
Speaker 1: shutdowns due to due to coronavirus, which I thought was
Speaker 1: really kind of fascinating. Yeah, that part was really interesting,
Speaker 1: william And I wonder to what it says about the
Speaker 1: idea of you know, there's so much psychology here, right, like,
Speaker 1: why were these people who many of whom are now apologizing,
Speaker 1: what what sort of sparked them to to actually make
Speaker 1: this move to to do something. Um, And and what
Speaker 1: did he tell you about that? Well, something fascinating about
Speaker 1: Brandon is that, um, he had never been to a
Speaker 1: Trump rally before, and when he came to this rally,
Speaker 1: he didn't even know that there was a march. He
Speaker 1: simply came to see to see Trump speak. So he
Speaker 1: quite literally got swept up into the mob. Um when
Speaker 1: he joined this march. And by the time he had
Speaker 1: already reached the Capitol, the outside perimeter had been breached.
Speaker 1: So you know, he walked onto the Capital law and
Speaker 1: scaled a wall and eventually climbed through a window to
Speaker 1: get into the Senate. And once inside, he got into
Speaker 1: the office of Senator Murkley at Democrats Oregon um where
Speaker 1: he put his sweet up on the table and smoked
Speaker 1: to joint. Why did he did he understand he was
Speaker 1: breaking the law by doing that? You know, it's it's
Speaker 1: hard to know. He claims that because he wasn't being
Speaker 1: arrested while inside, and in fact, the police officer gave
Speaker 1: him directions to the statue hall inside the Capitol, that
Speaker 1: you know, he was under the assumption he wasn't doing
Speaker 1: anything wrong. Um. You know, of course, the kind of
Speaker 1: it's difficult to believe, but but you know, I think
Speaker 1: it's revealing he he did not think that he was
Speaker 1: going to get in trouble for for doing this based
Speaker 1: on the reaction of the police officers. You know. You
Speaker 1: you talk about in the piece that he's had some
Speaker 1: friction with his family over this and over his beliefs. Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think it's it's it's probably something that we're
Speaker 1: a lot of us can relate to with the way
Speaker 1: that disagreements politically are are happening it now, Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm wondering after talking to him, UM, take us through
Speaker 1: like what he's planning to do moving forward? I mean,
Speaker 1: how do how does one move past an inflection point
Speaker 1: like this? Well, you know, I'm not sure in speaking
Speaker 1: to him if he's actually grappled with the fact that
Speaker 1: he's done something wrong. Um, you know, and and you know,
Speaker 1: one of the reasons we know that is because he's
Speaker 1: planning actually to return to d C for for more
Speaker 1: events on the twenties surrounding the inauguration. But you know,
Speaker 1: I think you both made a really interesting point at
Speaker 1: the beginning of this program, and that you know, some
Speaker 1: people will say that that we shouldn't listen to people,
Speaker 1: and and that by talking to them is platforming them.
Speaker 1: But I think they're wrong. It's actually really important to
Speaker 1: understand the psychology and motivations of these people. And there's
Speaker 1: a really good example of that. I mean, these folks
Speaker 1: said that they planned to storm the capital on the sixth,
Speaker 1: no one listened to them, no one took them seriously,
Speaker 1: and then they actually did it. Um. So you know,
Speaker 1: I think just in general, we need to we need
Speaker 1: to actually listened to what these people are saying. Well, well well,
Speaker 1: even and Tim and I were talking beforehand. You know,
Speaker 1: I really do want to understand these voters. I know
Speaker 1: Tim does too, like how did we get to this point?
Speaker 1: And we need to stop ignoring you know, parts of
Speaker 1: the voting public are parts of the country, because this
Speaker 1: is how we get to these places. I mean, you
Speaker 1: tell his story. He lives in a converted school bus,
Speaker 1: he stopped working last spring because of fears of COVID
Speaker 1: nineteen um and you said, you know, he became disillusioned
Speaker 1: when New York State denied him unemployment benefits. I mean,
Speaker 1: we have we talked about the opioid epidemic in the
Speaker 1: past that people who were just kind of lost in society.
Speaker 1: I mean, we really need to understand these stories and
Speaker 1: these individuals who feel like there is no voice for them.
Speaker 1: And this is where the President, in many large ways,
Speaker 1: you know, did speak to them. Right. But I think
Speaker 1: it's also important to understand that these people are becoming
Speaker 1: radicalized by the internet. I mean, he told me that
Speaker 1: he gets the majority of his news from YouTube. He
Speaker 1: pointed out Ben Shapiro and Stephen Crowder. He also said
Speaker 1: he's recently started watching news Act and One American News,
Speaker 1: which have both promoted false claims of a rigged election. So,
Speaker 1: you know, the culpability of platforms like YouTube and Facebook,
Speaker 1: um and Twitter are are a parent in this In
Speaker 1: this riot, it's no different than forgive me because I'm
Speaker 1: hearing radicalized by the Internet. It's no different than we
Speaker 1: talked about terrorists. Right, we think about nine eleven, and
Speaker 1: after nine eleven that individuals who are being radicalized by
Speaker 1: the internet. We saw that as a bad thing. Yes,
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of folks who ended up joining
Speaker 1: the Islamic State were radicalized by YouTube, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: it didn't just happen on the Homeland series. I'm just
Speaker 1: going to say folks, it didn't just on Homeland. Well, well, William,
Speaker 1: we bring up a really good point because you mentioned
Speaker 1: news networks one America News, you mentioned news Max, and
Speaker 1: you talked about YouTube. And the platforms that have really
Speaker 1: gotten all the attention in the last six days have
Speaker 1: been Twitter and Facebook because of their actions against President Trump,
Speaker 1: and in Amazon because of it's deep platforming of of Parlor.
Speaker 1: But the conversation is much bigger when it comes to
Speaker 1: the message and the radicalization right right, And and you
Speaker 1: make a good point. I mean YouTube is really dodging uh,
Speaker 1: a lot of criticism here that that that I think
Speaker 1: needs to be focused on them. I mean, their platform
Speaker 1: is sort of unlike any other in terms of pumping
Speaker 1: out misinformation. And for years now, um, you know, the algorithm,
Speaker 1: the YouTube recommendation algorithm has prioritized the most diverse, divisive content,
Speaker 1: which pushes people to the kind of more crazier and
Speaker 1: zanier conspiracies. And and you know, you know, from what
Speaker 1: we've been able to tell, YouTube has done very little
Speaker 1: to address I I wonder, I mean, you obviously can't
Speaker 1: make prescriptions here, but um, you know what what does
Speaker 1: Why do you think YouTube has avoided some of the
Speaker 1: conversation that we've seen over the last week. Why do
Speaker 1: you think it's sort of the sleeping giant when it
Speaker 1: comes to radicalization. Well, it's really hard for journalists and
Speaker 1: researchers and other people to actually kind of quantify and
Speaker 1: show the amount of misinformation because of the nature your
Speaker 1: videos themselves. I mean, it's kind of like a law
Speaker 1: of large numbers problem. I mean, in a tweet or
Speaker 1: Facebook post, right, it's apparent, right, you can just see
Speaker 1: a screenshot and you can see what's happening. But in
Speaker 1: videos that you know, maybe our thirty minutes or an
Speaker 1: hour long, it's it's way more nuanced and way more
Speaker 1: difficult to actually moderate. Um So, yeah, but that's why
Speaker 1: people have focused on the recommendation algorithm as a thing
Speaker 1: that they could do to not prioritize this kind of
Speaker 1: most divisive content. Our thanks to our William Turton uh
Speaker 1: Sobersecurity Report the journal. Yeah but you let me drive,
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no no, non, please, I'll do the right
Speaker 1: I don't want to dry, just drive, baby. It's the
Speaker 1: question to try to the Globe Dawn Radio stepstick talk
Speaker 1: everyone about eleven minutes left in today's trading session, Charlie
Speaker 1: giving you that rundown and we're bouncing around. We're off
Speaker 1: definitely a far lows. In fact, we're working our way up.
Speaker 1: We're back in the green uh here when it comes
Speaker 1: to those major averages. Great to have back with us,
Speaker 1: Janna Burton, she's co director of Growth Equity over to Advance.
Speaker 1: She judges us on the phone from Boston. UM, nice
Speaker 1: to have you here. How are you. I'm doing great,
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me back. Happy new here, Happy new Year.
Speaker 1: What's going on in your world? Tell me like we
Speaker 1: you know, we turned the calendar page. Not a lot
Speaker 1: really changes. But I have to say the last week, UM,
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of soul searching about democracy,
Speaker 1: what our nation means, thinking about politics, what a new
Speaker 1: administration ultimately is going to mean, and what division means
Speaker 1: with him, not just politics, but within our nation. So
Speaker 1: I don't know, is there some way to tie that
Speaker 1: in and and come out with an outlook on the
Speaker 1: other side? Well said, And I think change is the
Speaker 1: only constant, right, So I think it's an equity investor,
Speaker 1: you have to appreciate that there are always cross currents
Speaker 1: in the marketplace to your political economic now where in
Speaker 1: the midst of a pandemic, with hopefully some light at
Speaker 1: the end of the tunnel. But I think again, um,
Speaker 1: given some prospects for investors, it's no surprise that equity
Speaker 1: markets could be volatile. That's why SMP actually declines on
Speaker 1: average about fifteen percent per year. But over the long term,
Speaker 1: over the past five ten years, it's generated in excess
Speaker 1: of that. Um. Wait, wait, explain that again. You're saying,
Speaker 1: on average, the SMP is down for the year. Know
Speaker 1: what I What I'm saying is on average you usually
Speaker 1: experience what folks refer to as a draw down meeting
Speaker 1: to work from the peak to the trough levels. On
Speaker 1: any sort of calendar year basis or a a twelve month
Speaker 1: period that you look at, on average, it's about a
Speaker 1: fifteen percent decline last year. Unfortunately, most of us remember
Speaker 1: who was twice that level, whereas AB five under declined
Speaker 1: almost So. I guess to your point, we've got a
Speaker 1: lot to digest right now, both on the fundamental basis
Speaker 1: as well as the macro basis, as well as the
Speaker 1: political side of the equation. But I think as an investor,
Speaker 1: our job is to look forward, and as we sit
Speaker 1: here today, we think that this is going to be
Speaker 1: a good backdrop for equity investors, particularly those focused on
Speaker 1: the long term. Why because secular stories that we've talked
Speaker 1: about for many, many years as still with us, but
Speaker 1: now we can play those alongside cyclical stories, so that
Speaker 1: economic recovery in the industrials, in the consumer discretion in
Speaker 1: discretionary space, as well as some of the stable um
Speaker 1: stable areas of the market like healthcare. So plenty of
Speaker 1: opportunities for investors. What what are the stories that are
Speaker 1: that are playing out in some of these what you
Speaker 1: call MS price or underappreciated opportunities UM Starting with health care. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well healthcare. I know I've talked to Caroll many times
Speaker 1: before about healthcare, timb. This is my first time talking
Speaker 1: to you about healthcare. But health care has been underappreciated
Speaker 1: by investors for a very long time. And I know
Speaker 1: this is our twelfth day of the year, but it's
Speaker 1: finally working. This is a perfect area of the market
Speaker 1: where I think it's a hybrid. It offers investors both
Speaker 1: the earnings growth opportunity. The sector is expected to generate
Speaker 1: about ten percent earnings growth next year, but it's trading
Speaker 1: at over twenty discount on a multiple basis relative to
Speaker 1: the SMP five hundred, So you're basically, um, you know,
Speaker 1: allowing investors to participate in this growth at a significant
Speaker 1: discount to the market. And this is one of the
Speaker 1: few sectors of the market that are that is very idiosyncratic.
Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is you have defensive
Speaker 1: areas of the market like pharmaceuticals, but you also have
Speaker 1: high growth areas in the market like life science tools.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's you know, I have to say, it's
Speaker 1: pretty remarkable. I was just doing a quick kind of
Speaker 1: of playing around the bloomberg and bringing up the spire
Speaker 1: healthcare sector. It's one of the majordustry groups in the SNP,
Speaker 1: and you're right, like, I mean, we've seen some gains
Speaker 1: last year, but it was it was uh eighteen, it
Speaker 1: was up maybe about four and a half. It's just amazing.
Speaker 1: It's despite we know that everybody's going to need more
Speaker 1: and more healthcare going forward. It's it's pretty anemic to
Speaker 1: some extent in comparison in terms of the returns. Jana,
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. I think a lot of this blame
Speaker 1: is really carried by the political um backdrop that Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: meeting of the companies were hit with and unfortunately regulatory
Speaker 1: of political uncertainty doesn't usually bode well for multiples. But
Speaker 1: I think we're at this inflection point where UM. I
Speaker 1: think the silver lining behind COVID is, look what the
Speaker 1: human ingenuity and the innovation has enabled us to do,
Speaker 1: which is to provide folks with a vaccine in less
Speaker 1: than a year. Right, So the picks and shovels of
Speaker 1: that business a legit, and now you have increased funding,
Speaker 1: you have tech advancement that I really think it is
Speaker 1: revolutionizing those drug development and delivery of a much needed therapies,
Speaker 1: not just in fighting the virus, but other chronic diseases
Speaker 1: like cancer and others. So I really think this is
Speaker 1: one area of the market where investors will be well
Speaker 1: served because there's so many unique stories that are still
Speaker 1: trading at such a discount to the market. What about
Speaker 1: when it comes to technology, because what's been getting a
Speaker 1: lot of attention, of course over the last year has
Speaker 1: been what we you know, what is referred to as
Speaker 1: big tech, both in a good way and also in
Speaker 1: a pejorative way. To I think UM, software services, security,
Speaker 1: What are the companies that are the themes that that
Speaker 1: you're seeing or looking for. Great point. Last year, again,
Speaker 1: information technology was the best performing sector of the market.
Speaker 1: At when most folks don't appreciate is only a third
Speaker 1: of the sector outperformed the overall sector, meaning only a
Speaker 1: heard of companies. So you've got hundreds of companies and
Speaker 1: only a third were able to match a dissector returns.
Speaker 1: Why because many of the sort of accelerants were driven
Speaker 1: by the fangs or the big cap guys. Right, And
Speaker 1: what I'd like to highlight is a big long term
Speaker 1: secure themes are with us. It's expected that we're going
Speaker 1: to spend somewhere close to three point eight trillion on
Speaker 1: I T services this year just I T in general,
Speaker 1: and less than ten percent is still being spent cloud
Speaker 1: and security and guess what, we're going to need a
Speaker 1: lot more of it. So that's you. Jail wind is
Speaker 1: with us and those companies will benefit well. Yanna, Good
Speaker 1: to check in with you in this new year. Yanna Barton,
Speaker 1: she's co director of Growth Equity Already Advance on the
Speaker 1: phone from Boston. Thanks so much for listening to Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud or at
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com and be sure to check out our
Speaker 1: daily radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: And be sure to watch us too on YouTube by
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