WEBVTT - Fed Hiking Cycle Looks Done After US Jobs Report Shows Cooling 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:05.680 This is Bloomberg Business Wait Inside from the reporters and 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.440 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:13.440 gloom O Business Finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:18.240 Week podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:24.360 Radio Weekend, Get Up, Weekend, Walk Up. 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.960 This Indeed, we can work it out, and it feels 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:36.120 like the economy, or maybe the Fed monetary policy kind 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:39.040 of working its way out on the US economy because 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.560 we definitely, as we just talked about with Katie and Romaine, 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:44.280 definitely seeing things maybe slowing down. 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:47.520 Right, Tim, let's talk about what we saw this morning. 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:49.440 Non farm payrolls. You know, the numbers by now increasing 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:51.240 two one hundred and fifty thousand last month. It was 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:53.960 less than expected. And then you got the revision for 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:56.560 last month, Carol, which is an important one, revised down 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:59.760 to two hundred and ninety seven thousand. The unemploymentry climate 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:02.920 of three point nine percent, monthly wage growth slowing. If 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:05.680 you're Jay Powell, if you're the Federal Reserve saying everything 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:07.560 is kind of moving in the direction that I wanted to. 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:10.360 It's hi fi buying everybody on the FFC. 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:12.759 It's kind of weird because the unemployment rate is going 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:16.280 up in fewer people, great jobs run expected, So we. 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:18.760 Talk about bad news good news for the markets. So 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:20.240 let's get to it, because it does look like a 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:23.200 cooling of the US labor market. However, it is a 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:27.199 month's report our Steve Matthew writing about it, and he says, 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:29.560 though what looks like a cooling US job market gives 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:30.920 a Fed a little bit of room to keep interest 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:33.240 rates maybe on hold in December, which would be the 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.280 last meeting of the year, and reinforcing market views at 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:39.160 the UESS Central Bank is done with the most aggressive 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:40.679 hiking campaign in for decades. 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:42.679 It's been quite a ride in the last year. Steve 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:43.280 is with US now. 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:45.959 He is Bloomberg News Economics reporter. He's on Zoom out 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:49.200 there in our Atlanta bureau where Mike is Mike mcke's 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:52.080 getting ready to talk to the Atlanta Fed President. Also 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:53.760 with US as our former colleague who is now the 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.960 senior US economist at BNP Parry Bap Yolena Schaletieva. 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:58.600 She's on Zoom in New York City. 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:02.040 But I kind of want to start with you Today's 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:04.960 US jobs and Services data is that it can we 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:05.920 say the FED. 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:10.079 Done raising rates? 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:14.240 I think so this is the kind of the data 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:19.639 that will make a FED comfortable to be patient at 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:23.880 the upcoming meeting and beyond. At the same time, it's 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:27.119 not falling off a cliff, so that should provide them 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:31.720 some comfort to stay on hold for quite some time 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:36.760 and wait until inflation slows down. So I think that 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:41.000 is kind of a Goldilock scenario for the FED. You know, 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:45.960 in their expectations for a soft blending sterio, this is 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:48.440 the type of the report that they would like. 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:50.360 So done done in the next move is going to 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:52.880 be a cut in your view? Or is it done done? 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:55.400 And will wait a little bit and just see or 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:56.519 you think done done? 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:00.880 I think I think that you know, at the US conference, 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:05.000 I think Powell was trying to persuade the markets that 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.239 they had done without saying it, of course, and keeping 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:12.239 the tightening bias in place, But if you read between 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:14.359 the lines, that's what he was trying to say. 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:16.440 I think Steve Matthews, come on in here, do you 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:18.720 agree with you, Elena that this is the kind of 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:22.000 data that will make the FED comfortable keeping rates steady 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:24.000 for quite a while and it could be the last 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:25.720 rate hike at least in this cycle. 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:29.720 I absolutely agree. I mean, this is if the FED 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:33.000 was making up numbers and trying to figure out what 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:36.240 would be good numbers for the kind of outcome that 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:39.640 they're looking for, they would come to exactly this kind 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:43.280 of thing. I mean, they want to see unemployment, the 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:47.480 unemployment rate just very slightly gradually up. They believe four 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:51.400 percent unemployment is full employment. So and they believe that 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.360 the labor market has been overheating, and they want to 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:57.840 see a slight cooling off but nothing dramatic. And this 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:00.760 is a slight cooling off but not traumat and you're 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:04.120 seeing wage skeins that are coming down a little bit, 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:08.880 so the pressure is coming off the labor market. Powell 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:12.360 said on Wednesday, wanted to see rebalancing. You know, there's 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.640 a lot of evidence in here that you're seeing that rebalancing. 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:20.599 So you know, we're having Rafael Bostick into our office 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:24.080 in a few minutes, and you know, in some ways 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:26.480 he could be doing a victory dance today because it's 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.440 like he's been saying since the first half of the year, stop, 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.479 you know, we've done enough, uh, and let's go on 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:36.039 an extended pause. And and we you know, the the 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.680 the monetary policy works with a lag, and that seems 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:42.880 to be you know, the outcome that we're seeing. So 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:48.760 while other FED officials are very likely to say, you know, 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:52.080 don't rule out additional cuts, we still have the possibility 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:55.680 that we're going to go higher. It certainly seems like, 0:04:56.200 --> 0:05:00.600 you know, absent there being some really bad surprise inflation, 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:02.040 that they're likely done. 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:05.120 When you said don't rule out, you meant further increases, right. 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:06.839 Not cut exactly exactly. 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:10.599 They're not. They're not looking at Coutson. In fact, you know, 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:15.320 I think you know until you get into the middle 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:18.000 of part of next year that they are pretty committed 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:21.960 to staying on hold and not moving lower until you 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:25.279 get to inflation either at two percent or very close 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:26.360 moving in that direction. 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:28.360 Right, We did see FED SWAP's price the first rate 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:31.359 cut by June meeting versus July prior, so a little 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:34.000 bit of a move up in terms of. 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:34.640 How traders are seeing it. 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:38.200 So, Elena, are you guys starting to put out research 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.680 that says, Okay, we're gonna get a recut come June 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:42.080 or you're gonna wait on that one. 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:47.280 Well, we we do have that in our baseline projection, 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:50.320 so we have the first rate cut in June and 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:54.080 then a one percentage point of cuts in the remainder 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:57.160 of next year. I just wanted to add a little 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:00.400 bit to what Steve was saying in terms of Chair 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:05.040 Powell mentioning the supply side story and how the labor 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.560 market is coming back into balance. I think while this 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.320 report was a No K report for the FAT, it 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:15.720 does throw some cold water on that argument about the 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:20.520 supply side of the economy coming back. It does show 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:24.640 some vulnerabilities on the demand side. You see a significant 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:29.760 slowing in retail transportation and this is going into the 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:34.000 holiday season, so things are slowing. Hiring is slowing in 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:39.000 this important part of the economy. Leisure hospitality spike during 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:42.880 the summer months was indeed temporary, and that is slowing down. 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:48.080 We see diffusion index declining to cyclical law. That tells 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:52.600 you that the breath of job hiring is also shrinking. 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:56.000 So I would be cautious. This kind of number is 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:59.919 a good number, but that shows some vulnerabilities in the 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:01.920 economy going into the ur end. 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.320 Okay, so it's kind of Carol's in contrast, where We 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:07.680 heard from Chrissy Taylor over at Enterprise last week in 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:09.760 terms of right, she was pretty up not just on 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.080 the consumer, but also on the signs that she's getting 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:17.120 from enterprises, trucking, leasing, business in the truck the you know, 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:19.120 the tracking that they do, which is kind of puliar. 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:21.800 It was kind of peculiar. Steve Matthews coming back in 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:23.800 here and give us an idea of what could actually 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.600 prompt the FED to cut rates next year, Like, what 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:29.760 are the economic signals that you're looking for for a 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:30.880 rate hike in the middle of the year. 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:36.040 I think there's a rate cut. Excuse me, yeah, exactly. 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:39.960 I think there's a view at the FED that you know, 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:46.000 as inflation comes down, real interest rates wide. I mean essentially, 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.680 you know, if inflation moves down to two percent and 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:52.280 you have the FED fun trade at five and a 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:54.760 half percent, that's three and a half percent gap. And 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:59.800 so as as inflation comes down, you're seeing monetary policy tight. 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:04.480 So really, I think the figures that are most important 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:06.520 in terms of when they're going to cut is when 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:10.239 inflation comes down, because they didn't they at some point 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.160 they're not going to want to see additional monetary policy 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:17.480 tightening and they view, you know, real rights as an 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:18.560 important signal. 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.920 Yeah, and I'm curious about, you know, just watching some 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.640 of those sentiment numbers that we will get next week too, 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.680 because you know how people feel about their situation, and 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:34.320 we've been certainly doing surveys here at Bloomberg of individuals. 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:36.560 What they're concerned about is, yeah, they might be working, 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:38.400 but they're paying a heck of a lot for everything, 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:42.040 or they're paying more for their car, you know, loan 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.680 or lease if you will, loan, I guess in particular, 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:47.280 or they're paying more on their mortgage, or they can't 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:50.680 even get into a mortgage. All right, So, Yolena, what 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.960 is the number one thing on your radar? 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:55.480 Let's say, for the next week or so. 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:01.680 We'll be watching the Senior Loan Office survey coming out 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:05.120 on Monday. The FED had the data at their meeting 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:09.480 this week. And things are not easy. So, you know, 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:12.880 lending conditions are tightening, and all of the things that 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:18.040 you mentioned, Carol, you know, consumers looking at car loans, 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:22.840 buying a car at a higher interest rate. Those things 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:26.280 will be reflected in that survey, and you know, further 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:30.760 deterioration in lending standards I think is relevant to what 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:32.480 the FED is going to do next. 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.360 Same question to you, Steve, what's you got? You know, 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:38.080 Raphael Bostak coming up. I don't know if that's top 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:40.160 of mind right now in terms of what, but tell 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:41.640 me what's kind of top of mind for you. 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.440 Bostic is definitely top of mind for me, since he's 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:48.640 now in the office, and. 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:50.880 What would you ask him just thirty seconds? 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:52.360 What would you what would be. 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:55.480 Well, the same question you would ask, which is you know, 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.200 what's going to cause cuts? Now that it seems like 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:02.400 that we may have have peaked. But I think besides 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:05.319 the SLEW survey, which I agree entirely is going to 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:09.720 be interesting on Monday, Uh, there's a ton of Fed 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:12.880 speak and it's like how they interpret the data, how 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:17.600 they interpret what's happening with the financial markets. And you know, 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:21.880 there was financial market tightening in advance of the meeting. 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:24.800 Now we are seeing some loosening. I mean the yields 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:27.320 are down, and it's like, you know, how do they 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:29.880 view that. You have Chris Waller, you have some others 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:34.839 who are speaking Bostic and Barking next week, so there'll 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:36.840 be plenty to listen to you yeah, we'll. 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:38.600 See there's one narrative or multiple. 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:43.640 Bloomberg News economics reporter of course joining us there in Atlanta, 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:45.079 and then you'll landish a Lakeva. 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:46.079 Thank you so much. 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:50.959 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.320 live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:58.439 Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:02.320 or wan't just live on you too well? 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:04.680 As we promised, we have got a few perspectives on 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.200 the US labor market. We heard from Steve Matthews at 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:13.319 Bloomberg News and Juliam Sheil Yateevo. Yeah, here's another perspective. 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:17.360 We got Julia Pollock, chief economist at zip Recruiter, joining 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:21.320 us from Los Angeles. Just a quick recap for those 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:23.920 who haven't been following all day. The data series showed 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:26.319 job growth slowing by more than expected, Carol, and the 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.800 unemployment rising to an almost two year high three point 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:33.319 nine percent. Monthly wage growth slowed two bad news, good. 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:34.200 News, Yeah exactly. 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:35.439 And I know you and I both have gotten a 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:38.800 peek at Julia's research over at ZipRecruiter, and I feel 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:40.480 like it's going to mesh with some of what we 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.240 got from the government this morning. Julia, good to have 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:45.800 you back with us on business week. Are you seeing 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.200 signs at the job market here in the United States 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:48.920 is cooling? 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:52.440 We are seeing lots of science and all the key 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.120 indicators in this job's report point in that direction. The 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:59.600 decline in working hours, the slow down and wage growth, 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:04.080 the uptick in the unemployment rate, particularly for younger workers. 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:08.280 These all suggest that demand for labor is slackening. I 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:12.439 mean that household survey was very weak this month. That said, 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:16.160 you know, the weakness in payrolls may be overstated. We 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:19.040 have to keep in mind that the UAW strike was 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.560 in full swing during the reference week of the survey, 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:26.400 and that's since been resolved, were partly resolved, And actually 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:29.400 there were strikes across the economy and in all kinds 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:33.760 of industries, with ninety six thousand people absent from work 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:37.559 due to to strikes, the highest number since nineteen ninety seven. 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.120 So if you add all those workers back in and 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.920 then maybe take away about forty thousand for the average 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:45.800 revision that we've seen so far this year, with eight 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:50.160 out of nine reports being revised downwards, you know that 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:53.040 brings you to a number that is around two hundred 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.080 and thirty thousand. Still a slowdown, not terrible. 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:58.400 A slowdown to two hundred and thirty thousand would be 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.080 significantly higher than the one had undred and eighty thousand 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:04.480 that economists surveyed by Bloomberg expected, and maybe they took 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:07.320 into the into account the strikes that were happening. Julie, 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:11.280 I guess are you saying that perhaps? And look, I 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:15.360 know you're a labor economist, so you're not focused on 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:17.280 what's going on in the equity and the bond markets 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:21.120 right now. But would you suggest that the celebrations are 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:23.760 a little early in terms of a soft landing here? 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:26.880 No, No, I think I think the bulk of the 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:30.480 data in both the Establishment survey and the household survey 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:33.760 came in week So in the establishment survey, you have 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:39.640 working hours, overtime hours, you have the wage growth numbers. 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.199 Those are all pretty weak. I mean, wage growth over 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:44.600 the last three months at an annualized rate has been 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.920 just three point two percent. Economists think that three point 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.440 five percent would be consistent with two percent inflation, right, 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:53.520 because workers should get a two percent boost to make 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.720 them whole for inflation. Plus another one point five percent 0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:00.000 boost a year to account for productivity growth and PRODUCTIVIY 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.120 growth is looking good at the moment. That figure was 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:07.240 over four percent four point nine percent by the last quarter, So. 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:08.640 Which might explain what that. 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:12.200 Maybe we're all working, Maybe I don't know, harder better, 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:14.840 I don't know, and then maybe there isn't that. 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.600 Need to hire. 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.120 But I wonder what I want to ask you is, Juliet, 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.680 there was such a feeling of labor hoarding. We talked 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.720 about it a lot of coming out of the pandemic. 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.520 People didn't want to let go of workers because it 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:30.080 was so hard to get a worker. 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:32.040 Is that kind of going a way? 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.400 No, it doesn't appear to be. And the latest Jolts 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.400 report layoffs was still very low. And what you see 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.360 is that we're kind of in a low turn state 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:46.720 right now, with employers reluctant to lay workers off, worried 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.440 about how expensive and food will be to replace them, 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:53.520 but also quits kind of back to normal, and workers 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.560 no longer feeling as confident about quitting their jobs, no 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:59.320 longer as confident that they'll find better ones. So everyone's 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:03.160 sort of shelter in place, and as a result, hires 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.800 are low, and the reason that job agains are still 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.120 so positive is more because the rate at which the 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:13.000 water's going out of the bathtub has slowed, not so 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.000 much that we're bringing in a lot of new people 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:15.880 into the land market. 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.720 Do you think employers are back in the driver's seat. 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.920 So we just released a report on our new research website, 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:29.480 zippergruterresearch dot org about what is going on for new 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.440 hires and job switchers, and we found that across pretty 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:35.760 much every measure of leverage and bargaining power that we track, 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:40.120 they have lost considerable power in the last month. I 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.840 mean in the last quarter. The share who got a 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.680 signing bonus fell to eighteen percent from twenty eight percent. 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:48.760 The share who got a raise when they switched jobs 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:52.400 fell meaningfully. The share who when they quit their job 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:54.880 got a call from their old employer saying we need 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:57.560 you to stay. We'll match your outside offer, we'll counter 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:02.560 that fell meaningfully. Workers are no longer being fought over 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:04.880 as such a hot commodity. 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:10.120 Interesting, So is it where we were pre pandemic, right 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:14.840 before the pandemic or a little bit weaker. I don't 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:17.200 know what's your read on it. You're talking with companies. 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:21.040 You guys are working with companies too. How would you 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.440 describe it? Give me a couple of adjectives to describe 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:25.560 how you think the labor market is right now in 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:26.560 the United States. 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:27.800 Sure so. 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.160 My read on it is that things are a little 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:33.280 bit weaker than they were right before the pandemic. Working 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:35.520 hours at thirty four point three are at the very 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:38.600 low end of the range that we typically see in 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.960 good economic times. Wage growth, it is a little tepid, 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:47.080 given how high inflation is. The real wage growth is 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:51.600 not so great for workers. There's still lots of opportunities 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:55.200 out there, but workers are finding it's taking them a 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:59.280 little bit longer, a couple more applications to get offers, 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:02.360 and the offers they get are not quite as attractive 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:04.520 as what they grew used to the last two years. 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.679 What about when it comes to workers saying, you know, 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:09.680 I don't want to go into the office five days 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.560 a week. I want to work from home a little bit. 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.680 Maybe not coming on Fridays or Mondays. Read the room, baby, 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.679 read the Wednesday Thursday sounds good for sitting in my 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.760 chair all day. What's the read you get on that? 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:26.240 At ZipRecruiter so about eleven percent of job postings are 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.880 still remote. That's up from about three percent before the pandemic. 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:32.080 So remote work is here to stay. 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:38.560 How many look it seems low because sixty percent of 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.080 job seekers would prefer to get a remote job, and 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.240 you really have about sixty percent of all the workers 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:46.280 competing over about ten eleven percent of the job postings. 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:50.360 So there is a big mismatch between demand and supply 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:52.200 of remote work opportunities. 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:53.320 That's it. 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:56.240 We did a survey of employers recently and we did 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:59.080 find that more had pulled back on their remote work 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:03.760 policies than expanded remote work. But even so, very few 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.359 had gone back to the five day in office work week. 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:09.920 So the five day in office work week is effectively dead. 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:13.640 Very few companies are requiring people in the office five 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.280 days a week. Flexibility is the name of the game. 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:22.119 Well, pretty interesting, no doubt about it. Yeah, it's just 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:25.600 interesting to see some of the trends that are out 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:29.040 there because we certainly see more and more people coming back, 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:29.560 right or. 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:34.239 I'll tell you that Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays on the 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:37.480 subway are very crowded. Thursdays and Friday's. 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:37.520 Not so much. 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:39.400 I thought about that this morning, coming through World Trade, 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:41.840 I'm like, Okay, there's no crowd. 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:43.040 Like I can kind of walk through it. 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:47.359 Really great stuff and we so appreciate getting time to 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:49.920 check in with you, Julia Pollock, take care and have 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:52.080 a great week. And chief economist eferent Zip recruiter on 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:54.480 zoom in Los Angeles, I have to say, going through 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:58.159 kind of their surveys and stuff to see things starting 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.719 to tick down in terms of hours worked, wage growth, 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.360 like really kind of meshing so well and so strongly 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:06.399 with the jobs report this morning. 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:10.679 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:14.840 live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio, 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:18.200 the Bloomberg Business App, and YouTube. You can also listen 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:21.400 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.919 Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:28.440 Well, one of our most read stories on the Bloomberg Today, 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:30.400 no doubt about it. We got the verdict last night. 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:34.000 We're talking about the case of Sam Bankmin freed convicted 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:36.159 of a massive fraud that led to the collapse of 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.960 his FDx exchange. Following a month long trial that pitted 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:42.840 the testimony of the former crypto king against some of 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:43.760 his closest friends. 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:46.800 It was that happened fast, Carol, It did happen fast. 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:49.800 I mean, think about how long Elizabeth Holmes was sort 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.880 of in limbo before sentencing, and he hasn't been sentenced yet. 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:55.800 But no, this berdict came down pretty quickly. 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:58.359 Very quickly. Yeah, BigMan freed. For those kids catching up. 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.800 He was found guilty of seven counts of fre conspiracy 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.199 after Jersey and Manhattan deliberated for fewer than five hours 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.879 on Thursday. He faces as many as twenty years in 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.560 prison on each of the most serious charges. Judge Lewis 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:13.160 Kaplan set the sentencing date in late March. 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:14.600 All right, so let's get to our weekly check on 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:16.679 the crypto market. Thoughts on the trial, the verdict, the 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.320 future legal woes to come, maybe for others in the industry. 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.240 With us, as Bloomberg News legal reporter Ava Benny Morrison, 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:26.359 she's been following SBF's trial in Lower Manhattan throughout. She 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:28.159 is on Zoom in New York City, and also with 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:31.399 US is Stephen mcclerk. He's chief investment officer of the 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:36.439 financial services firm Valkyrie Investments. Former managing director at Guggenheim Partners, 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:38.840 where he was focusing on fixed income and private equity. 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.080 Heat is on zoom from Nashville, Tennessee. Hey A, I 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:43.040 want to start with you. 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:45.960 What a month. I believe you got married in the 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:48.240 middle of it too, But is that right? 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:56.200 Congratulations? Congratulations, not great timing, but what you're covering right now. 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:57.960 But I think the wedding. 0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:00.920 Is like I'm going down the aisle, going to but anyway, 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:03.080 so quick, quick verdict. 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:04.320 It felt like was it night? 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:06.560 Talk to us about your kind of the process and 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:10.680 then the verdict coming down so quickly and what ultimately happened. 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:15.840 Very quick verdict. Actually, after the jury started their deliberation 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:19.359 just afternoon, at about quarter past three, we were taking 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:22.440 bets in the press room of when the jury would 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:25.200 come back, and I actually bet that it was going 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:29.399 to be last night. So I think someone owes me 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:32.920 lunch for that. But it was a very quick turnaround. 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:35.760 They had a couple of notes early in the evening. 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:39.159 The judge had said that they could stay if they 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:43.080 wanted to and deliberate until eight pm last night. They 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:45.920 decided to they were going to have dinner, get a car, 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:49.200 uber or a lift home, and they submitted a couple 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:52.560 of questions jury notes, asking for highlighters and post it notes. 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:57.600 They also asked for transcripts of certain testimony from institutional 0:21:57.600 --> 0:22:01.000 investors at FTX, so we thought maybe they might be 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:03.480 in for the long haul. But then with about twenty 0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:06.679 minutes to eight pm, the eightpm deadvine, they came back 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:07.920 with another note saying. 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:08.920 That they'd reached a verdict. 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:12.879 It was a little bit frantic in the actual courtroom 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:15.119 because people weren't really expecting it. At that point, n 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:18.040 was sort of moving around Josh for a seat, and 0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:21.120 then all the lawyers, the prosecutors, and of course Sam 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:22.240 himself and his. 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:22.800 Parents walked in. 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:26.639 What was Sam's reaction when the judge or the jury, 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:28.679 I don't know who read this. We don't have cameras 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:31.359 in there. You were in there. What was his reaction 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:33.679 when he heard the verdict? 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:38.600 Sam was very still when he was sitting at the 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:42.040 bar table between his two lawyers. Usually he's sort of 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:44.920 bouncing his knee around and you can see him fidgeting 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:47.879 a little bit, but last night he was dead still, 0:22:47.920 --> 0:22:50.520 almost like a statute. The judge asked him to stand 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:54.720 and face the jury. The jury four person read out 0:22:55.200 --> 0:22:59.120 the guilty verdicts one by one, saying guilty seven times. 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:02.480 He kept his eyes down, looking at the floor most 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:04.720 of the time. His hands were in front of him, 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:09.680 and he was completely unemotional. He looked almost a little 0:23:09.680 --> 0:23:13.960 bit sorry, almost a little bit shell shot, and before 0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:19.240 sitting down again. His parents, though, were completely strat so 0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:21.399 they were sitting on the bench in front of me 0:23:21.480 --> 0:23:22.680 in the court room comforting. 0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:26.440 On imagine it was quite steven. 0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:29.359 Come on in on the conversation. You know, how do 0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:35.760 you think this trial might potentially impact the crypto market 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:40.520 and the interest of it as an investment or means 0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:44.840 of transaction. What might be a longer term impact if any. 0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:49.080 Yeah, well, thanks for having me, Carolyn tim. My initial 0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:51.679 reaction was, you know, we're glad that this is finally 0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:55.200 behind us, because the FTX situation and all the other 0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:59.480 related issues has had a really broad negative impact on 0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:03.040 the industry for about the last eighteen months. You know, 0:24:03.080 --> 0:24:06.080 we weren't immune to the damage either, despite not having 0:24:06.119 --> 0:24:08.399 any kind of relationship to those companies. And now that 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:11.960 we finally have a verdict, I feel like investor confidence 0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:16.359 in the crypto market will start rising. Again, you know, 0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:20.120 we're already seeing confidence coming back to the markets. Usually 0:24:20.359 --> 0:24:24.520 when there's a fraud, it can affect any market segment. 0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:27.720 But when justice is served, which which was served yesterday, 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:30.840 and we'll finally get the you know, the final verdict later, 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:34.680 there's usually a relief and a relief rally comes with 0:24:34.720 --> 0:24:37.359 that and a recognition that the next fraud is going 0:24:37.400 --> 0:24:39.600 to be harder to pull off and that criminals will 0:24:39.600 --> 0:24:40.040 get caught. 0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:42.280 Bitcoin's actually down a little bit about eight tens of 0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:44.879 percent today. I mean, I know it's one day, but 0:24:45.320 --> 0:24:46.040 just saying. 0:24:46.920 --> 0:24:49.480 Yeah, Steven, can you talk a little bit about the 0:24:49.840 --> 0:24:52.720 damage that you guys experienced as a result of not 0:24:52.800 --> 0:24:55.280 just this trial, but of the downfall of FTX to 0:24:55.320 --> 0:24:58.760 referred to it, But what specifically did you see at Valkyrie. 0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:02.760 Yeah, you know, over really the last two calendar years. 0:25:03.240 --> 0:25:06.359 And it didn't start with FTX. It started with with 0:25:06.480 --> 0:25:11.480 Celsius and Voyager and a couple of other block fives 0:25:11.520 --> 0:25:15.399 another good example, and then and the pinnacle was really FTX. 0:25:15.920 --> 0:25:19.440 But we really saw less flows coming in, whether it's 0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:23.639 through ETFs or whether it's through hedge funds that you know, 0:25:23.680 --> 0:25:26.520 we manage each so so we really did see flows 0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:30.240 start to dry up, and when the FTX trials started 0:25:30.280 --> 0:25:35.040 coming around earlier this summer, we did begin to see 0:25:35.080 --> 0:25:37.720 flows coming back to the market. So it really was 0:25:38.080 --> 0:25:40.480 a case of investors sentiment saying, you know, I don't 0:25:40.480 --> 0:25:42.160 want to touch that market for a little bit until 0:25:42.160 --> 0:25:46.040 we understand really what's going on. Market's like certainty, and 0:25:46.240 --> 0:25:48.920 I think they wanted to have certainty that it wasn't 0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:52.760 a crypto problem, rather it was a fraud and criminal problem. 0:25:53.760 --> 0:25:56.399 So all right, So Ava, how are you kind of 0:25:56.880 --> 0:26:01.240 thinking about the crypto world from a league prospective loonel 0:26:01.320 --> 0:26:05.320 Laurent Laurent Trel has a Bloomberg opinion Colum out and 0:26:05.359 --> 0:26:08.040 he says SBF will be the last crypto mergal behind bars. 0:26:08.600 --> 0:26:11.640 So there are other cases in litigation out there. 0:26:11.800 --> 0:26:14.119 Yeah, do the Bloomberg quiz this week, Carol. It's a 0:26:14.160 --> 0:26:15.280 nice hint for a. 0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:18.320 Question on there that is very true. 0:26:18.600 --> 0:26:20.920 So are you anticipating that you're going to get ready 0:26:20.920 --> 0:26:23.359 for some other cases to be following. 0:26:25.400 --> 0:26:29.439 Yes, definitely. In Federal court in Manhattan, the prosecution, the 0:26:29.480 --> 0:26:33.440 prosecution office down here has made a big point of saying, 0:26:34.280 --> 0:26:36.800 you know, just because this was crypto and it was 0:26:36.920 --> 0:26:41.240 a new technology and new market. The fraud is the same. 0:26:41.320 --> 0:26:45.240 It doesn't matter what the vehicle is that's being used 0:26:45.280 --> 0:26:49.440 to perpetuate this fraud. So FTX was one of many 0:26:49.680 --> 0:26:53.560 crypto companies that the Prosecution Office went after. We're also 0:26:54.320 --> 0:26:56.840 waiting to see what happens with Alex Nshinski, who was 0:26:56.880 --> 0:26:59.600 the founder of Celsius, Do Kwan, who was the founder 0:26:59.640 --> 0:27:03.600 of terror Form Labs, So it'll be interesting to see. 0:27:03.760 --> 0:27:05.679 I guess if you can take any lessons from what 0:27:05.760 --> 0:27:08.640 happened with FTX. Obviously, there was a lot of evidence 0:27:08.960 --> 0:27:12.239 in this case, and the prosecution was really blessed with 0:27:12.320 --> 0:27:17.399 having three insiders from sec freeds in a circle turning 0:27:17.480 --> 0:27:19.680 around and agreeing to be corporated. 0:27:19.240 --> 0:27:20.120 Witnesses for them. 0:27:20.560 --> 0:27:25.440 So what happens to them Eva, They will be sentenced. 0:27:25.800 --> 0:27:28.240 They've sort of done their bit for the government and 0:27:28.400 --> 0:27:31.520 the judge will weigh up just how valuable they were 0:27:32.000 --> 0:27:35.040 and then determine what their punishment would be. Gary, what 0:27:35.119 --> 0:27:38.879 those executives, just to refresh your brand's memories were, Gary Wong, 0:27:39.440 --> 0:27:41.960 the co founder of FTX, Caroline Ellison, who is the 0:27:42.000 --> 0:27:44.920 CEO of allowing me to research and Nashad Singh who 0:27:45.040 --> 0:27:49.200 was the engineering chief at ftxy'. They all had corporation 0:27:49.280 --> 0:27:52.480 agreements with government and gave evidence and they were saying, 0:27:52.640 --> 0:27:55.000 we're hoping we don't get jail time from this, so 0:27:55.200 --> 0:27:56.160 we'll have to wait and see. 0:27:56.280 --> 0:27:58.479 Steven got about a minute left here. What would you 0:27:58.600 --> 0:28:01.840 like to see in terms of GOV oversight or rules 0:28:01.920 --> 0:28:05.399 or a greater transparency in a crypto world? 0:28:06.880 --> 0:28:09.040 Yeah, you know, I don't think it's necessarily an issue 0:28:09.080 --> 0:28:13.480 with with crypto and I also don't know if there's necessarily, 0:28:13.800 --> 0:28:17.359 you know, investor protections, additional investor protections that need to 0:28:17.600 --> 0:28:21.840 take place here. The bottom line is, sophisticated investors were 0:28:21.880 --> 0:28:25.000 fooled here. We just happen to be fortunate enough to 0:28:25.119 --> 0:28:27.479 have a really stubborn and risk focused team when we 0:28:27.480 --> 0:28:31.840 were engaging with with counterparties like Celsius and FTX and 0:28:31.880 --> 0:28:34.679 decided not to engage with them because they didn't fulfill 0:28:34.920 --> 0:28:37.359 our process of due diligence. And I think what happened is, 0:28:37.760 --> 0:28:40.120 you know, anytime that there's a new market and there's 0:28:40.280 --> 0:28:43.640 height around that market and people making money, it does 0:28:43.680 --> 0:28:46.200 create a bit of fomo and people forget their process. 0:28:46.240 --> 0:28:51.440 People forget their their their their past learnings, whether it 0:28:51.560 --> 0:28:55.920 was learnings from Ron or learnings from made Off. I 0:28:55.960 --> 0:28:58.840 mean I was. I was a credit analyst looking at 0:28:58.880 --> 0:29:03.320 Greece when and the Greek Death Crisis came about and 0:29:03.480 --> 0:29:05.840 avoided it. So we avoided these issues. And I think 0:29:06.000 --> 0:29:08.880 people just have to remember that you follow a process, 0:29:09.000 --> 0:29:12.480 you're due diligence, and you make sure that you mitigate risk. 0:29:12.560 --> 0:29:14.000 Stephen mcclug, thank you so much. 0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:16.560 Over at Valkyrie, of course our own Ava Benny Morrison 0:29:16.680 --> 0:29:18.040 covering the trial for us. 0:29:18.440 --> 0:29:22.040 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:29:22.040 --> 0:29:26.080 live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, 0:29:26.280 --> 0:29:29.560 the Bloomberg Business app, and YouTube. You can also listen 0:29:29.640 --> 0:29:32.760 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station 0:29:33.200 --> 0:29:36.000 Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:29:37.760 --> 0:29:40.520 Well, the numbers, Carol, are not pretty. Less than a 0:29:40.600 --> 0:29:43.480 quarter of two ninety two point four million tons of 0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:47.200 municipal solid waste read trash that was generated back in 0:29:47.240 --> 0:29:50.760 twenty eighteen was recycled. That's according to the latest figures 0:29:50.760 --> 0:29:54.120 from the US EPA. Actually, it's kind of more than 0:29:54.120 --> 0:29:56.840 I thought it would be Yeah, so that's you know. 0:29:57.000 --> 0:29:58.080 Yeah, twenty five percent. 0:29:58.200 --> 0:30:01.280 Yeah, it would be less to be less, but there's 0:30:01.280 --> 0:30:01.959 a long way to go. 0:30:02.040 --> 0:30:03.640 Yeah, and our next guest actually thinks we can do 0:30:03.680 --> 0:30:06.320 a lot better. Keith Harrison is the founder and CEO 0:30:06.360 --> 0:30:09.240 of The Recycling Partnership. It's an industry funded nonprofit that 0:30:09.360 --> 0:30:14.600 advocates for improving recycling infrastructure and accessibility. The Recycling Partnership 0:30:14.600 --> 0:30:17.040 says it over the last eight years, it's diverted seven 0:30:17.120 --> 0:30:21.080 hundred and seventy million pounds of new recyclables from landfills, 0:30:21.440 --> 0:30:24.160 which has avoided more than six hundred and seventy thousand 0:30:24.160 --> 0:30:27.680 metric tons of greenhouse gases. And Keith joins us on 0:30:27.800 --> 0:30:28.960 Zoom from Washington, DC. 0:30:29.400 --> 0:30:31.920 That's legit. That's a lot of a lot of greenhouse 0:30:31.960 --> 0:30:34.600 gases that have been avoided. Keith, thanks so much for 0:30:35.000 --> 0:30:38.040 joining us. Excited to have you with us this afternoon. 0:30:38.960 --> 0:30:41.480 I love talking about recycling because I think that there 0:30:41.480 --> 0:30:44.480 are so many composting Now I'm composting, got the garbage 0:30:44.480 --> 0:30:48.000 disposal to separating. You know, here in New York, we 0:30:48.000 --> 0:30:51.280 had to separate everything into you know, it's not single stream, 0:30:52.240 --> 0:30:53.760 but one thing that Carol and I were surprised to 0:30:53.800 --> 0:30:57.320 learn recently is specifically about plastics and to what extent 0:30:57.400 --> 0:31:01.520 plastics are not actually recyclable in this day and age. 0:31:01.520 --> 0:31:03.120 So I want to start there and then we'll get 0:31:03.160 --> 0:31:06.440 to what's going on with America Recycles Day a little 0:31:06.480 --> 0:31:07.040 later in the month. 0:31:08.120 --> 0:31:10.680 Sounds good, sounds good. Thanks for having me in today. 0:31:10.760 --> 0:31:12.600 Glad to talk about this. If you want to go 0:31:12.600 --> 0:31:15.400 out to dinner afterwards. Composting also a favorite topic. 0:31:15.840 --> 0:31:18.840 Okay, that's awesome. Well, we got plenty of time, so 0:31:18.960 --> 0:31:20.920 talk to us about talk to us about what's going 0:31:20.960 --> 0:31:22.840 on with plastics right now, because a lot of people 0:31:22.960 --> 0:31:25.520 have this misconception that if they recycle it, then it 0:31:25.600 --> 0:31:27.880 just gets reused and made into something else, which is beautiful. 0:31:27.880 --> 0:31:29.680 And if we see that thing on the bottom that 0:31:29.800 --> 0:31:33.520 like circular, we think, okay, cares about the number in 0:31:33.560 --> 0:31:34.440 there exactly? 0:31:34.640 --> 0:31:37.200 Well, yeah, you know what. There's been a lot of 0:31:37.360 --> 0:31:39.440 recycling has been in the news a lot lately, and 0:31:39.480 --> 0:31:42.160 some of the stories are really depressing. And I want 0:31:42.160 --> 0:31:44.640 to start with the story of hope that it's not 0:31:44.760 --> 0:31:47.840 working exactly as we needed to, but we can fix 0:31:47.880 --> 0:31:50.600 this sucker, and then that then we'll have something else 0:31:50.640 --> 0:31:52.840 to talk about on the other side. So when we 0:31:52.960 --> 0:31:57.720 look at what's really happening with recycling today, we see 0:31:57.760 --> 0:32:02.040 a huge opportunity for improve We see that seven out 0:32:02.040 --> 0:32:05.680 of ten cardboard boxes and up in the trash. That's 0:32:05.800 --> 0:32:08.960 very similar to seven out of ten PT bottles and 0:32:09.200 --> 0:32:12.640 glass bottles also end up in the trash. Is that fixable? 0:32:12.920 --> 0:32:13.160 Yes? 0:32:13.280 --> 0:32:16.920 What happens when we do even more carbon savings as 0:32:16.960 --> 0:32:20.320 you outlined. So the story on plastics, though, gets a 0:32:20.320 --> 0:32:22.680 little bit trickier because there are so many types of 0:32:22.720 --> 0:32:26.160 plastics one word, many different things. So you really have 0:32:26.240 --> 0:32:30.200 to understand the strata of opportunity so you can go 0:32:30.280 --> 0:32:33.360 after the easier to fix ones like yogurt cups and 0:32:33.440 --> 0:32:37.360 PT bottles, and then build a longer timeline for the 0:32:37.360 --> 0:32:40.440 stuff that's trickier, like plastic wrap, stuff like that. 0:32:41.240 --> 0:32:45.760 Well, you know, we talk a lot about trash here, you. 0:32:45.880 --> 0:32:48.200 Know, Carol talks a lot of trash. That's what happens. 0:32:48.440 --> 0:32:51.560 I do that too, Sorry, guilty as charged, No, but 0:32:51.640 --> 0:32:56.640 I do wonder about you know, the impact of landfills 0:32:56.720 --> 0:33:00.600 and garbage in a year where climate change felt like 0:33:00.640 --> 0:33:03.120 it was, you know, thrust in front of our face. 0:33:03.160 --> 0:33:05.040 If you didn't believe it, Like you couldn't. You couldn't 0:33:05.040 --> 0:33:06.680 ignore some of the stuff that was going on, whether 0:33:06.720 --> 0:33:08.240 it was temperatures or fires or. 0:33:08.160 --> 0:33:08.720 What have you. 0:33:09.400 --> 0:33:11.200 Or you know, the skies over New York and the 0:33:11.240 --> 0:33:17.440 New York Metro turning orange. So landfills just remind everybody 0:33:17.520 --> 0:33:20.200 about the impact that they have on the environment. 0:33:21.840 --> 0:33:27.640 Yes, landfills are purposely made to keep out air and 0:33:27.960 --> 0:33:33.040 sun and rain. We purposely cap them, We encapsulate them 0:33:33.080 --> 0:33:37.520 actually in plastic, to keep things from breaking down because 0:33:37.600 --> 0:33:42.480 when they break down without air, light and rain, it 0:33:42.600 --> 0:33:49.280 creates methane. That anaerobic state inside of a landfill creates methane. However, well, 0:33:49.280 --> 0:33:51.800 although the intent is to prevent things from breaking down, 0:33:52.160 --> 0:33:55.000 they still do. And in fact, landfills are one of 0:33:55.040 --> 0:33:58.440 the biggest emitters of landfill of methane, which is one 0:33:58.480 --> 0:34:01.880 of our strongest and most potent greenhouse gases. 0:34:01.960 --> 0:34:03.880 So we should all be composting, is what you're. 0:34:03.720 --> 0:34:07.440 Saying back to the compost right, Yeah, Actually, food waste 0:34:07.520 --> 0:34:10.280 is The EPA just released a really good report about 0:34:10.280 --> 0:34:13.360 the role of food waste and organics. So banana peels 0:34:13.440 --> 0:34:16.479 and your yard trimming. Trimming is what happens when those 0:34:16.560 --> 0:34:19.400 in land and in landfill. But it's also you know, 0:34:19.560 --> 0:34:22.400 things have naturally break down, like fiber, paper products and 0:34:22.440 --> 0:34:24.680 things like that, so we have to be really careful 0:34:25.680 --> 0:34:28.640 before we casually toss something into a landfill because it 0:34:28.719 --> 0:34:30.520 is directly connected to the climate. 0:34:31.080 --> 0:34:33.560 Well, I think people know this, this is the problem. 0:34:33.680 --> 0:34:35.319 This is I was gonna say to you, like, if 0:34:35.360 --> 0:34:38.120 you go can California, don't you have like multiple cans 0:34:38.160 --> 0:34:38.600 like you have to do? 0:34:38.719 --> 0:34:40.560 Yeah, And it's pretty amazing. I Mean every time I 0:34:40.600 --> 0:34:43.759 go back to see my parents in California, the can 0:34:43.880 --> 0:34:47.279 situation changes. And what's happened is the recycling can has 0:34:47.320 --> 0:34:50.960 gotten huge, the compost bin has gotten huge, the trash 0:34:51.000 --> 0:34:52.120 can has gotten tiny. 0:34:52.239 --> 0:34:52.719 I love that. 0:34:52.760 --> 0:34:55.120 There's so the that is the future. 0:34:55.680 --> 0:34:59.520 That's incredible, right, And so what we're trying to work 0:34:59.520 --> 0:35:01.560 towards is instead of it just being like that in 0:35:01.600 --> 0:35:05.560 California or in New York City having really strong recycling programs, 0:35:05.560 --> 0:35:08.239 but it's a different way, we're trying to build harmonization. 0:35:08.680 --> 0:35:11.120 And so I get really interested in the role of 0:35:11.239 --> 0:35:14.600 policy to make it consistent from one place to another, 0:35:14.960 --> 0:35:19.040 but to also level up that caliber of service. So 0:35:19.080 --> 0:35:21.359 that you can make sure you're composting, you can make 0:35:21.400 --> 0:35:25.320 sure that you're recycling as many different things as possible. 0:35:25.360 --> 0:35:28.160 We want old stuff to turn into new stuff so 0:35:28.200 --> 0:35:31.680 that it never hits that landfill. And the role of 0:35:31.719 --> 0:35:34.680 policy is a new tool that we're seeing on the 0:35:34.760 --> 0:35:39.160 US landscape to create a consistency. And I think that's 0:35:39.200 --> 0:35:41.440 where we're really going to see the most system change happen. 0:35:41.600 --> 0:35:43.799 Well, and I do wonder too, what would be you know, 0:35:43.880 --> 0:35:45.640 one thing that we could all do better? Because in 0:35:45.640 --> 0:35:50.960 New Jersey it's like paper, plastic and glass and garbage. 0:35:53.040 --> 0:35:55.160 So I just what can we all that hurts? 0:35:55.480 --> 0:35:55.960 That hurts? 0:35:56.760 --> 0:35:58.840 What can we all do to make it better? 0:36:00.239 --> 0:36:02.040 Well, I think if you're trying to if you're traveling, 0:36:02.120 --> 0:36:04.200 especially as we come into the holidays and you're going 0:36:04.239 --> 0:36:07.919 from one place to another, check out recycle check dot org. 0:36:08.320 --> 0:36:10.759 This is a brand new tool we just launched, and 0:36:11.080 --> 0:36:14.000 it gets past this idea of can I recycle this 0:36:14.080 --> 0:36:18.240 where I am? It connects to the nine thousand different 0:36:18.320 --> 0:36:21.520 recycling programs that are in this country and allows you 0:36:21.600 --> 0:36:25.399 to very easily understand can I recycle this where I am? Now, 0:36:25.600 --> 0:36:28.279 this is a super duper tool the public can use it. 0:36:28.400 --> 0:36:32.879 We're partnering with other tools and platforms so that people 0:36:32.880 --> 0:36:34.960 don't have to come for us for the data, but 0:36:35.040 --> 0:36:37.880 wherever they go to get their data, they can find 0:36:37.920 --> 0:36:41.600 that they're recycling information. It connects, We use AI technology. 0:36:41.680 --> 0:36:45.480 We are constantly updating it across the whole country, and 0:36:45.560 --> 0:36:48.040 I think this is really really cool. So you know 0:36:48.080 --> 0:36:50.399 your listeners who are thinking about this as they might 0:36:50.440 --> 0:36:54.000 be commuting home right now putting your home hat on. 0:36:54.239 --> 0:36:56.920 It's helpful as you're traveling to visit family to know 0:36:57.000 --> 0:37:00.600 what's recyclable. But if you also run a bus that 0:37:00.880 --> 0:37:05.000 packages anything that might be waste or trash, this is 0:37:05.040 --> 0:37:08.359 a really cool tool for you too, because if you're 0:37:08.400 --> 0:37:11.440 doing work to green your product, it allows you to 0:37:11.480 --> 0:37:15.279 have consistent communication so that you know when you're there 0:37:15.360 --> 0:37:16.960 visiting your folks in California. 0:37:17.000 --> 0:37:18.240 And thanks to think. 0:37:18.040 --> 0:37:19.600 About going into the weekend. 0:37:19.680 --> 0:37:22.880 Keith Harrison, thank you so much of the recycling partnership. 0:37:22.920 --> 0:37:25.360 She is CEO and founder. This is Bloomberg. 0:37:26.960 --> 0:37:31.000 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg 0:37:31.040 --> 0:37:34.360 Quick Takes. Tim Stenovik on Bloomberg Radio. 0:37:35.680 --> 0:37:37.600 Sub London Front. 0:37:43.640 --> 0:37:45.680 All right, everybody, the new issue Bloomberg Business Week. It 0:37:45.760 --> 0:37:48.680 is out on newsstands online at Bloomberg dot com, slash 0:37:48.680 --> 0:37:51.200 business Week on the Bloomberg In it a focus on 0:37:51.239 --> 0:37:54.839 this upcoming week's Bloomberg New Economy form November eighth through 0:37:54.840 --> 0:37:57.840 tenth in Singapore, annual gathering of world leaders to address 0:37:57.880 --> 0:38:00.560 the most pressing issues facing the global economy and so 0:38:00.640 --> 0:38:03.239 tim In the magazine, there are several stories getting into 0:38:03.239 --> 0:38:04.160 those issues. 0:38:04.000 --> 0:38:06.680 Including from Wall Street to the World Bank, the one risk, 0:38:06.719 --> 0:38:09.319 the towers above all, and then a story about the 0:38:09.320 --> 0:38:12.160 company most known for making Apple's iPhones and the pivot 0:38:12.160 --> 0:38:14.799 that it wants to make here in the US. So 0:38:15.000 --> 0:38:16.520 let's get into it. We got the editor of the 0:38:16.520 --> 0:38:20.000 special New Economy coverage, Bloomberg Business Week, Global Economics Editor, 0:38:20.040 --> 0:38:22.799 Christina Lynn Bladd, joins us on zoom in New York City. 0:38:22.840 --> 0:38:25.200 Also with us is the editor of Bloomberg Business Week, 0:38:25.280 --> 0:38:29.920 Joel Weber in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker's Studio. Okay, so, Joel, 0:38:30.400 --> 0:38:31.799 I want to start with you and just talk about 0:38:31.840 --> 0:38:33.640 how you think about this issue in the context of 0:38:33.680 --> 0:38:35.640 the live event that's happening next week. 0:38:35.880 --> 0:38:38.399 So we think about it in themes and there are 0:38:38.880 --> 0:38:44.000 themes that I think are present in the issue that 0:38:44.120 --> 0:38:48.040 will also be foundational parts of the conversations that happen 0:38:48.160 --> 0:38:54.880 in Singapore where the New Economy Form will be taking place. 0:38:56.840 --> 0:38:58.920 I don't get to be there for the record. I 0:38:58.920 --> 0:39:01.600 get to be here too. I get to represent with 0:39:01.640 --> 0:39:02.200 these stories. 0:39:02.960 --> 0:39:04.279 You don't have to fly so far. 0:39:05.280 --> 0:39:05.480 You know. 0:39:05.600 --> 0:39:08.239 It was funny like they did email a colleague and 0:39:08.360 --> 0:39:10.080 the colleague was like, yeah, I'm still in the flight, 0:39:10.120 --> 0:39:13.520 and I was like, wait a second. He left. He 0:39:13.719 --> 0:39:19.640 left yesterday, So I think, look like talking about this 0:39:20.040 --> 0:39:24.240 right now, with what's happening in the world, that word 0:39:24.320 --> 0:39:27.520 risk comes up. We use it on the international cover 0:39:27.920 --> 0:39:34.839 for the package. The thing that Eric Shatsker, who is 0:39:34.880 --> 0:39:38.360 one of the colleagues who's there, identified with this is 0:39:38.960 --> 0:39:42.920 when you talk to a CEO right now, or listen 0:39:43.000 --> 0:39:46.719 to transcripts from Earning, you know, all these Earning calls 0:39:46.840 --> 0:39:49.560 or some of the people who have spoken up in 0:39:49.600 --> 0:39:53.040 the last few weeks and months, geopolitics is the number 0:39:53.120 --> 0:39:56.279 one concern right now, and it is this massive risk 0:39:56.360 --> 0:40:00.479 that CEOs feel like they don't really have control, any 0:40:00.520 --> 0:40:03.400 control over. It just sort of happens, and you're a 0:40:03.480 --> 0:40:08.120 victim of it and according to Eric's reporting, like that 0:40:08.440 --> 0:40:13.120 term politics has suddenly surged and become the risk that 0:40:13.560 --> 0:40:16.920 business leaders around the world are most concerned about. And 0:40:16.960 --> 0:40:20.760 no doubt that will be one of the biggest themes 0:40:20.760 --> 0:40:22.000 that come out of these conversations. 0:40:22.160 --> 0:40:22.760 Yeah, you guys. 0:40:22.880 --> 0:40:26.720 Eric mentions in his remarks and comments the world Fool CEO, 0:40:26.719 --> 0:40:30.560 who we talked about talk with too, and the concerns there. 0:40:30.640 --> 0:40:35.400 What's interesting is that in Eric in his article as column, 0:40:35.480 --> 0:40:38.000 he says, what makes you a political risk so vexing 0:40:38.080 --> 0:40:40.680 is that it defies modeling, right, so many different things 0:40:41.000 --> 0:40:45.680 financially we can model out this weekend, Christina, you oversaw 0:40:45.800 --> 0:40:47.239 this coverage is incredible. 0:40:47.960 --> 0:40:50.279 The stories come on in on the. 0:40:50.200 --> 0:40:52.840 Conversation, especially in terms of what Eric wrote in some 0:40:52.880 --> 0:40:53.680 of the other coverage. 0:40:54.960 --> 0:40:57.240 Yeah, I think it's true. It is difficult to model. 0:40:57.280 --> 0:41:00.680 I mean everyone has been surprised think in the last 0:41:00.680 --> 0:41:04.320 couple of years by these these you know, these cold 0:41:04.400 --> 0:41:07.319 conflicts that have heated up again. That's been one thing 0:41:07.320 --> 0:41:11.320 that we've been seeing. But also new kinds of of 0:41:11.320 --> 0:41:15.239 of ruptures, you know, is supply chains being reshuffled by 0:41:15.239 --> 0:41:19.000 the US China, you know tensions, and that's one thing 0:41:19.040 --> 0:41:21.160 that we tried to capture. For example, we tried to 0:41:21.200 --> 0:41:24.839 find countries that were sort of defined this kind of 0:41:24.920 --> 0:41:27.000 like you're with the you know, you're with us or 0:41:27.080 --> 0:41:29.759 against us kind of rhetoric that you see coming out 0:41:30.160 --> 0:41:33.799 of the US and to some extent China, and have 0:41:33.960 --> 0:41:37.000 instead sort of found a way to straddle you know, 0:41:37.160 --> 0:41:41.239 these these these fractures, you know, and and become kind 0:41:41.280 --> 0:41:46.399 of like connectors, new connectors between flows of trade. And 0:41:46.440 --> 0:41:48.360 that's something that I think in the initial years that 0:41:48.440 --> 0:41:50.560 were struffling of these supply chains, it's going to be 0:41:50.560 --> 0:41:53.440 more costly, and I m F and other and central 0:41:53.480 --> 0:41:55.960 banks have flagged that, but I think over the long 0:41:56.080 --> 0:41:59.640 term it will benefit uh some countries. Is sort of 0:42:00.280 --> 0:42:02.920 if the flow of trade runs through more nations. 0:42:03.000 --> 0:42:06.120 Okay, you're just like talking about it without talking about it. 0:42:06.160 --> 0:42:08.680 So there's a term that came. 0:42:08.600 --> 0:42:13.960 Up in the story connector economies. And I think Christina, 0:42:14.120 --> 0:42:18.880 what really fascinated me about this idea is that the 0:42:18.920 --> 0:42:23.520 world has been this US China dichotomy, like it's you're 0:42:23.560 --> 0:42:26.920 either in the US sphere of influence or the China one. 0:42:27.040 --> 0:42:30.800 But what in the current and Sean Donnan and others 0:42:31.480 --> 0:42:35.280 helped us illuminate here is that it's much more nuanced 0:42:35.360 --> 0:42:38.239 than that. So what are these connector economies and who 0:42:38.239 --> 0:42:38.600 are they? 0:42:39.640 --> 0:42:45.359 Well for well, we've we've found we chose Poland, Mexico, Vietnam, Indonesia, 0:42:45.360 --> 0:42:49.000 and Morocco. And Mexico, for example, is a country where 0:42:49.239 --> 0:42:54.120 this year overtook China as the lead exporter to the US. 0:42:54.320 --> 0:42:59.160 But at the same time, in Mexico, China's imports, I'm sorry, 0:42:59.200 --> 0:43:02.479 Mexico's imports for China are growing really really fast, faster 0:43:02.560 --> 0:43:05.480 than it's exports to the US because Chinese companies are 0:43:05.520 --> 0:43:09.520 setting up chopped, I'm sorry, Chinese manufacturers are setting up 0:43:09.560 --> 0:43:12.880 shop along the border primarily to exports to the US 0:43:13.120 --> 0:43:16.960 so they can sidestep Trump's tariffs. So that's one thing 0:43:17.040 --> 0:43:20.520 you're seeing, like, you know, yeah, So it's kind of 0:43:20.560 --> 0:43:23.400 like I think of it as like are US China 0:43:23.440 --> 0:43:27.400 economies delinking or are they just linking up in different places? 0:43:27.600 --> 0:43:29.759 Yes, you know, and look who wins out of that 0:43:30.239 --> 0:43:33.200 is like a Mexico in that particular equation, right, So 0:43:33.719 --> 0:43:36.240 I think that's going to be a fastening dynamic. And 0:43:36.360 --> 0:43:38.640 I'm really interested to watch these five countries. 0:43:40.360 --> 0:43:42.000 One story that I wanted to touch on was what's 0:43:42.040 --> 0:43:44.560 going on with fox Con. I love this storage. 0:43:44.640 --> 0:43:48.960 Yeah, so this is a really interesting phone baker. Yeah, exactly. 0:43:49.040 --> 0:43:49.680 So. 0:43:49.680 --> 0:43:53.360 So it's amazing how much stuff in the world fox 0:43:53.400 --> 0:43:56.440 cont actually manufacturers. It's like, you know, touch your phone, 0:43:56.800 --> 0:44:00.120 probably an iPhone made by fox Con, not an iPhone, 0:44:00.280 --> 0:44:01.200 probably made. 0:44:01.000 --> 0:44:01.640 By fox Con. 0:44:02.239 --> 0:44:05.360 Look in your living room if it's a technology device, 0:44:05.560 --> 0:44:09.520 some sort of tech apparatus, probably made by by fox Conn. 0:44:10.160 --> 0:44:13.720 So we did this story in the issue that really 0:44:14.120 --> 0:44:18.440 I think is a fascinating one by read Stephenson. Fox Conn, 0:44:18.600 --> 0:44:23.840 also Taiwanese company, also recognizes that maybe we've reached saturation 0:44:24.200 --> 0:44:27.640 and what that smartphone market looks like, and their next 0:44:27.719 --> 0:44:31.600 move looks like it might be into electric vehicles. And 0:44:31.719 --> 0:44:35.520 one of the places that they've acquired is the Lordstown Motors, 0:44:35.600 --> 0:44:40.440 this factory in Ohio, and they are already overhauling that 0:44:40.520 --> 0:44:43.719 factory to perhaps become a version of what they do 0:44:43.920 --> 0:44:47.000 for iPhones, where you, you know, basically have a white 0:44:47.040 --> 0:44:49.880 label manufacturing operation. What if you did the same thing 0:44:49.920 --> 0:44:54.399 for electric vehicles and you know, name your manufacturer, maybe 0:44:54.400 --> 0:44:55.520 fox Con makes that for you. 0:44:55.880 --> 0:44:57.440 I don't know maybe Apple, I don't know. 0:44:57.520 --> 0:44:59.320 I mean, no comment. 0:44:59.400 --> 0:45:02.719 Read the story. There's a little bit of whatnot and 0:45:02.760 --> 0:45:04.640 that's also another element of the story. 0:45:04.960 --> 0:45:07.239 Guys, we got to run, but great tease. Check out 0:45:07.320 --> 0:45:07.880 these stories. 0:45:07.960 --> 0:45:10.800 Joe Webber, the editor of Business Week, Christina Lindblad, Bloomberg 0:45:10.800 --> 0:45:12.399 BusinessWeek Global Economics Editor. 0:45:12.560 --> 0:45:13.200 Thank you, guys. 0:45:15.840 --> 0:45:20.480 This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, 0:45:20.640 --> 0:45:24.360 and anywhere else you get your podcast. Listen live weekday 0:45:24.400 --> 0:45:28.000 afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, 0:45:28.040 --> 0:45:31.359 the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business app. 0:45:31.400 --> 0:45:34.480 You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube 0:45:34.600 --> 0:45:36.560 and always on the Bloomberg terminal.