WEBVTT - Businessweek Extra-Abigail Ross Hopper 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:07.000 This is Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol Master. 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:09.479 Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week Extra. It's a weekly 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:12.360 podcast bringing you one of our favorite conversations from the 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:15.239 week on our daily radio show. This week on the 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:18.360 Bloomberg and at Bloomberg dot Com, we covered the thirty 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:20.759 nine things President elect Joe Biden should do first on 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:24.680 climate change. Biden will take office having made unprecedented commitments 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:27.640 to address global warming and with a fifteen year plan 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:31.080 to create carbon neutral electricity across the US on the 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:35.480 way to achieving net zero emissions by Biden has also 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:38.199 promised to spend two trillion dollars on a sweeping climate 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:41.239 and job agenda. Now, the solar energy industry man, they 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:44.120 are watching all of this very closely, and so with 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:46.519 that in mind, I caught up with Abigail ross Hopper. 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.880 She is President and CEO of the Solar Energy Industries Association. 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.000 They represent the solar industry. She's also former director of 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:56.560 the Department of Interiors Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, where 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.360 she led the agency that oversaw the leasing and development 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:02.520 of all offshore energy, from oil and natural gas to 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:05.360 offshore wind. Carol Thank you so much for having me 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:07.000 this afternoon. So I have to say, we have a 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:09.160 lot of important things to talk about, but can I 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:11.520 just be quite honest with you that from the get go, 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.959 my producer Paul Brennan, Um, when we were talking about 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:16.479 who was going to be on our show and talking 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:19.080 about you joining us, he shared your bio and it 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.760 says a very proud mom of three kids, loves to 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.640 read writer peloton, do hot yoga, and lie on the beach. 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:27.560 And my producer Paul said to me, sounds like you 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:30.760 Carol minus two kids, which is exactly I have to say. 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:36.560 You're my doppelganger. It's pretty amazing. That is very funny. 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:41.920 I am my Pelison was my first quarantine purchase there was, 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:46.240 and it was really a brilliant purchase and I am 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:50.200 totally addicted and brand boyle. Now, all right, have you 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:54.120 done the Hamiltons Ride? I did the Hamilton's Ride on 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:59.240 Monday night. I did that Beyonce ride ride. I'm all 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:02.920 in all right, Well, so really really wonderful to catch 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:04.520 up with you. Um it sounds like we have to 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:06.960 have a drink when we're back in normal times. UM, 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:10.680 So tell me about first of all, your world, what 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:13.359 it's been like, and what the industry's world has been 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:18.480 like under COVID. Yeah, we have really struggled, Carroll. Under COVID, 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:22.239 you know, we represent utility scales, so those big projects 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:24.920 in the middle of the desert, we represent commercial, the 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:28.240 ones on top of schools and corporates, and then you know, 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:30.760 once on top of your house and mind residential solar, 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:33.840 and they've all been hit, although the residential solar has 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:37.160 been hit the hardest. Um it makes sense, right, people 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:39.600 don't want anyone coming to their home. They can't do 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:42.960 door to door sales. So our companies have really innovated 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:46.760 and figured out different ways to sell and incorporated safety 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:51.080 mechanisms and so sort of the pipeline is starting to 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:54.360 build again. What we're finding though, is that the tax 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:57.480 equity market, which is such a critical part of our financing, 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:01.280 is really tightened up um and use uncertain times and 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:05.520 so we see that as a pretty significant challenge that 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:07.680 has been brought on by COVID. So how do you 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:10.880 change that, especially in a world where we were talking 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:13.280 We've been talking over the last few hours of our broadcast, 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:15.680 you know, just we're watching the headlines and the numbers 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.200 are just going higher soon than do you anticipate that 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:19.799 kind of what you've been dealing with you're going to 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:22.519 have to continue to deal with until we get kind 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:26.280 of to the other side. Yeah, I think, Um, I mean, 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:29.799 I think on many of our projects, we have figured 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:32.040 out how to install, how to sell and install and 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.760 permit safely. So um, there is demand there. What we 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.280 are considered now is really about the ability to finance 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.240 the deals, and so we have been asking Congress to 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:45.040 make our tax credit refundable as opposed to being predicated 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:48.320 on a tax equity appetite. Um. We've had a lots 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:50.000 I mean, I live in Washington and we've had lots 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:52.240 of meetings with legislators, although they've all been by a 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:55.920 zoom um, and they understand we've lost We've wiped away 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.080 about five years of job growth in the first few 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:02.640 months of COVID, So it's been really devastating. On the 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:04.920 flip side, you know, we can put people back to 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:08.560 work really quickly all across the country if we have 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:14.040 some certainty around our our financing mechanism. So okay, So 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:16.719 here we are in this kind of strange political world 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:20.520 right where the transition is not going. You understand transitions. 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:24.160 You've been inside, you know, the government, when a transition happens, 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:27.440 going from President Obama to President Trump. I mean, what 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:30.000 are your expectations. Well, we'll talk a little bit about that, 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:31.480 then I'm gonna do something. We'll come back. But we've 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.960 got about forty seconds here, you know. Are you anticipating 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:37.640 that anything gets done before January? Are you anticipating anything 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:42.839 gets done anytime soon? I am very hopeful Um that 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:46.960 in the new Congress, with President President elect Biden in office, 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:51.240 that there will be some significant legislation that passes. We 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:53.880 can talk after the break about the bipartisan nature of 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:58.000 solar But I am optimistic. I'm not particularly optimistic this 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:00.520 year end, because, as you said, everything it's just so 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.279 unprecedented at the moment to use an overused word. So 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:06.360 it was interesting in the break we talked a little 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:11.040 bit Abigail Um about who Joe Biden might pick, uh 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:14.640 possibly to run the Energy Department, and there one name 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:18.000 is being floated around as an ex Google official who 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:19.719 is kind of on the short list. He's a former 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:23.920 deputy secretary Um from our at the department. But it's 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:25.960 interesting in our reporting, you just kind of made the 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:28.960 point out that you've got to have somebody politically savvy 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:33.560 in that department and somebody who's technically understands kind of 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:35.600 everything at issue. And I do think about when you 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:39.240 look at maybe the shaping up of a new administration, 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:40.920 you know, who do we need to have in play, 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.200 especially when it comes to things like solar energy, or 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:47.120 or alternative energy, or just overall our energy policy in 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:51.919 this country. Yeah, I think I listened to your conversation 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:54.800 about that. I think, you know, we want people in 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:59.080 our government who an energy front, who are practitioners of 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:02.360 energy right, who know how to build it, know how 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:04.800 to finance it, know how to get it done. If 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:09.800 if President elect Biden is going to implement his aggressive 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:13.840 climate change plan, there has to be just even more 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:16.839 rapid deployment of solar and wind and offshore wind and 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.960 all of these technologies. So you need folks in government 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:23.960 who understand how the businesses operate and you can get 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:26.400 that done. But over and that's more like at the 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:31.039 Department of the Interior, where they're they're actually around execution. 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:34.080 But if you think about the Departative Energy, right, that's 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:36.040 where so much of the R and D happens and 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:41.160 having um, you know, an engineer and a scientist over there, 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:43.599 it makes a ton of sense because we're really sort 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:46.480 of looking at next gen options, right what are we 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:48.320 what are we going to do? How are we going 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:52.160 to find these new technologies to even further decarbonize our 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:55.520 our economy. What was your what was your experience between 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:57.760 kind of old energy new energy? Because I do feel 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:00.919 like we have such um whether it's to lobbyists and 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:03.279 the money that's still in kind of our old energy world, 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:06.039 we know that in order to protect our climate, we've 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.440 really got to embrace more fully alternative energy. Do you 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:12.360 feel like there's enough thinking of that going on in 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:14.160 the government or we need to really kind of take 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.800 a big leap forward. I think we need to take 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:20.560 a big leap forward. Um. I think that we need 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:24.160 to recognize the crisis that we're in and take big, bold, 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:27.920 aggressive steps. Um. So, you know, when I was at 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:30.680 the Department of Interior, I oversaw oil and gas, as 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.840 you said, and renewables, offshore wind and so one of 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:36.440 the most interesting things that I noticed, and I noticed 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:39.280 it in solar as well, is that many of the 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:42.320 first of the European oil and gas majors, and now 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:45.360 the American oil and gas majors are making big investments 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:48.400 and renewables right and solar and wind and offshore wind. 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:50.840 They see it, you know, they understand where the market 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:54.040 is going, and they understand UM sort of where where 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:58.120 consumers and regulators and policy makers wants to go, and 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:01.760 so are diversifying their offerings UM. And that has been 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:04.440 a really interesting shift of the last few years, is 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:09.520 to see the shelves and the the dps of the world, 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:11.280 in addition to the Europeans, like you know, some of 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:15.840 the other European utilities, UM and oil majors really invests 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:20.560 heavily in electric vehicles, in solar in storage because it 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:22.640 is going to be a huge part of our energy next. 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:24.480 So help me out here, because I think I'm always 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:26.920 someone like it feels like we were moving along so 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:30.000 slowly and like tak e vs. I felt like it 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:32.880 it took somebody like Elon Musk to kind of shake up, 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.319 you know, the establishment, to say, well a minute, we 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:37.640 can do this faster. And I really do feel like 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:42.600 he really awakened the auto industry, the global auto industry. 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:45.320 But help me understand, since you understand this that in 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:47.880 terms of kind of you know, the old line, Like, 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.040 it's fascinating to hear what you say about Shell and 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:52.280 MVP and we we knew this that they were looking at, 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:55.760 you know, renewables. But does it do we have to 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:58.880 understand it does take some time to kind of shift 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:03.040 our world two renewables or are there ways that we 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:07.560 can be it should be doing it faster? And I 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:09.480 know you're from the solar industry, so you're probably gonna 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:10.760 be like, yeah, of course we can do it faster. 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:12.520 But do you know what I'm saying that that that 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.920 it isn't always so easy to kind of shift. We 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:18.600 don't necessarily we still are struggling with the infrastructure when 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:22.360 it comes to E VS. Right, No, I so I 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:26.800 am both a realists, right. I understand how the good works. 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:29.959 I understand how the technology works. UM, and so there 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:34.760 are some challenges to rapid deployment, but you're right, you 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:38.240 need big out of the box spinkers to really um 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:41.400 come up with creative solutions. And so I and you 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:43.760 know my background is from all energy, so well, yes, 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:46.800 I work at the solar industry right now, UM, I 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:49.800 think I have a pretty holistic to you and I 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:51.520 think there are things we can do. I think there's 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:54.000 things that the President and the agencies can do in 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:58.160 terms of federal procurement. Right the obviously the US government 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:00.000 and the US M forces or one of the are 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.360 is the largest fire of energy um. And so looking 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:05.760 at their procurement all of the real estate they have, 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:09.200 all of our public lands and putting solar and wind 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:12.040 resources on our public lands. You know, we already do 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:15.120 oil and gas drilling, so it makes sense to have 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:19.040 rapid deployment. They're thinking about the technology, thinking about the finance, 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:23.400 creating UM sort of ways that we that the market. 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:25.600 You know, it's putting the right marketing centers out there 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:29.360 and then letting companies respond to it. I think, um, 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:31.320 there's a lot of things that we can do to 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.400 to move this transition even more quickly. Yeah, I think 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.840 market incentives are really a really really big thing when 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:41.160 you think about what they can do. Um. Alright, So 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:43.320 to wrap up, I gotta ask you who's your favorite 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:51.840 Peloton instructor. I love alex Oh. I think he is. 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:55.079 He inspires me in a way that none other do. 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:58.120 How about you, UM, I think, like a lot of people, 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:01.320 I do like Robin Arson. I like kinda Marie Corbett 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:03.800 and I have to say I've actually met Robin. Um. 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.079 We've covered Peloton as you would imagine. I've talked to 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.000 John Foley a lot um and I've done stories on 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:11.240 him and met Robin when they have kind of the 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:14.920 Peloton annual gathering. Um, they met in New York and 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:16.920 it was very cool. You know, she's a lawyer. It's 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.600 just it's a very cool world. I just gotta say, 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:23.479 it isn't very cool. And her personal story is so fascinating. 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:26.920 I'm excited to watch her um be pregnant and how 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.320 to Davy. And that wraps up our Bloomberg Business Week 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:33.000 Extra podcast with Abigail ross Hopper, Presidency of the Solar 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:36.200 Energy Industries Association. She's also a former director of the 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:39.520 Department of Interiors Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, where she 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:42.200 led the agency that oversaw the leasing and development of 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:45.880 all offshore energy, from oil and natural gas to offshore wind. 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:47.840 Have a great weekend. I'm Carol Masser.