Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol Master.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week Extra. It's a weekly
Speaker 1: podcast bringing you one of our favorite conversations from the
Speaker 1: week on our daily radio show. This week on the
Speaker 1: Bloomberg and at Bloomberg dot Com, we covered the thirty
Speaker 1: nine things President elect Joe Biden should do first on
Speaker 1: climate change. Biden will take office having made unprecedented commitments
Speaker 1: to address global warming and with a fifteen year plan
Speaker 1: to create carbon neutral electricity across the US on the
Speaker 1: way to achieving net zero emissions by Biden has also
Speaker 1: promised to spend two trillion dollars on a sweeping climate
Speaker 1: and job agenda. Now, the solar energy industry man, they
Speaker 1: are watching all of this very closely, and so with
Speaker 1: that in mind, I caught up with Abigail ross Hopper.
Speaker 1: She is President and CEO of the Solar Energy Industries Association.
Speaker 1: They represent the solar industry. She's also former director of
Speaker 1: the Department of Interiors Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, where
Speaker 1: she led the agency that oversaw the leasing and development
Speaker 1: of all offshore energy, from oil and natural gas to
Speaker 1: offshore wind. Carol Thank you so much for having me
Speaker 1: this afternoon. So I have to say, we have a
Speaker 1: lot of important things to talk about, but can I
Speaker 1: just be quite honest with you that from the get go,
Speaker 1: my producer Paul Brennan, Um, when we were talking about
Speaker 1: who was going to be on our show and talking
Speaker 1: about you joining us, he shared your bio and it
Speaker 1: says a very proud mom of three kids, loves to
Speaker 1: read writer peloton, do hot yoga, and lie on the beach.
Speaker 1: And my producer Paul said to me, sounds like you
Speaker 1: Carol minus two kids, which is exactly I have to say.
Speaker 1: You're my doppelganger. It's pretty amazing. That is very funny.
Speaker 1: I am my Pelison was my first quarantine purchase there was,
Speaker 1: and it was really a brilliant purchase and I am
Speaker 1: totally addicted and brand boyle. Now, all right, have you
Speaker 1: done the Hamiltons Ride? I did the Hamilton's Ride on
Speaker 1: Monday night. I did that Beyonce ride ride. I'm all
Speaker 1: in all right, Well, so really really wonderful to catch
Speaker 1: up with you. Um it sounds like we have to
Speaker 1: have a drink when we're back in normal times. UM,
Speaker 1: So tell me about first of all, your world, what
Speaker 1: it's been like, and what the industry's world has been
Speaker 1: like under COVID. Yeah, we have really struggled, Carroll. Under COVID,
Speaker 1: you know, we represent utility scales, so those big projects
Speaker 1: in the middle of the desert, we represent commercial, the
Speaker 1: ones on top of schools and corporates, and then you know,
Speaker 1: once on top of your house and mind residential solar,
Speaker 1: and they've all been hit, although the residential solar has
Speaker 1: been hit the hardest. Um it makes sense, right, people
Speaker 1: don't want anyone coming to their home. They can't do
Speaker 1: door to door sales. So our companies have really innovated
Speaker 1: and figured out different ways to sell and incorporated safety
Speaker 1: mechanisms and so sort of the pipeline is starting to
Speaker 1: build again. What we're finding though, is that the tax
Speaker 1: equity market, which is such a critical part of our financing,
Speaker 1: is really tightened up um and use uncertain times and
Speaker 1: so we see that as a pretty significant challenge that
Speaker 1: has been brought on by COVID. So how do you
Speaker 1: change that, especially in a world where we were talking
Speaker 1: We've been talking over the last few hours of our broadcast,
Speaker 1: you know, just we're watching the headlines and the numbers
Speaker 1: are just going higher soon than do you anticipate that
Speaker 1: kind of what you've been dealing with you're going to
Speaker 1: have to continue to deal with until we get kind
Speaker 1: of to the other side. Yeah, I think, Um, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think on many of our projects, we have figured
Speaker 1: out how to install, how to sell and install and
Speaker 1: permit safely. So um, there is demand there. What we
Speaker 1: are considered now is really about the ability to finance
Speaker 1: the deals, and so we have been asking Congress to
Speaker 1: make our tax credit refundable as opposed to being predicated
Speaker 1: on a tax equity appetite. Um. We've had a lots
Speaker 1: I mean, I live in Washington and we've had lots
Speaker 1: of meetings with legislators, although they've all been by a
Speaker 1: zoom um, and they understand we've lost We've wiped away
Speaker 1: about five years of job growth in the first few
Speaker 1: months of COVID, So it's been really devastating. On the
Speaker 1: flip side, you know, we can put people back to
Speaker 1: work really quickly all across the country if we have
Speaker 1: some certainty around our our financing mechanism. So okay, So
Speaker 1: here we are in this kind of strange political world
Speaker 1: right where the transition is not going. You understand transitions.
Speaker 1: You've been inside, you know, the government, when a transition happens,
Speaker 1: going from President Obama to President Trump. I mean, what
Speaker 1: are your expectations. Well, we'll talk a little bit about that,
Speaker 1: then I'm gonna do something. We'll come back. But we've
Speaker 1: got about forty seconds here, you know. Are you anticipating
Speaker 1: that anything gets done before January? Are you anticipating anything
Speaker 1: gets done anytime soon? I am very hopeful Um that
Speaker 1: in the new Congress, with President President elect Biden in office,
Speaker 1: that there will be some significant legislation that passes. We
Speaker 1: can talk after the break about the bipartisan nature of
Speaker 1: solar But I am optimistic. I'm not particularly optimistic this
Speaker 1: year end, because, as you said, everything it's just so
Speaker 1: unprecedented at the moment to use an overused word. So
Speaker 1: it was interesting in the break we talked a little
Speaker 1: bit Abigail Um about who Joe Biden might pick, uh
Speaker 1: possibly to run the Energy Department, and there one name
Speaker 1: is being floated around as an ex Google official who
Speaker 1: is kind of on the short list. He's a former
Speaker 1: deputy secretary Um from our at the department. But it's
Speaker 1: interesting in our reporting, you just kind of made the
Speaker 1: point out that you've got to have somebody politically savvy
Speaker 1: in that department and somebody who's technically understands kind of
Speaker 1: everything at issue. And I do think about when you
Speaker 1: look at maybe the shaping up of a new administration,
Speaker 1: you know, who do we need to have in play,
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to things like solar energy, or
Speaker 1: or alternative energy, or just overall our energy policy in
Speaker 1: this country. Yeah, I think I listened to your conversation
Speaker 1: about that. I think, you know, we want people in
Speaker 1: our government who an energy front, who are practitioners of
Speaker 1: energy right, who know how to build it, know how
Speaker 1: to finance it, know how to get it done. If
Speaker 1: if President elect Biden is going to implement his aggressive
Speaker 1: climate change plan, there has to be just even more
Speaker 1: rapid deployment of solar and wind and offshore wind and
Speaker 1: all of these technologies. So you need folks in government
Speaker 1: who understand how the businesses operate and you can get
Speaker 1: that done. But over and that's more like at the
Speaker 1: Department of the Interior, where they're they're actually around execution.
Speaker 1: But if you think about the Departative Energy, right, that's
Speaker 1: where so much of the R and D happens and
Speaker 1: having um, you know, an engineer and a scientist over there,
Speaker 1: it makes a ton of sense because we're really sort
Speaker 1: of looking at next gen options, right what are we
Speaker 1: what are we going to do? How are we going
Speaker 1: to find these new technologies to even further decarbonize our
Speaker 1: our economy. What was your what was your experience between
Speaker 1: kind of old energy new energy? Because I do feel
Speaker 1: like we have such um whether it's to lobbyists and
Speaker 1: the money that's still in kind of our old energy world,
Speaker 1: we know that in order to protect our climate, we've
Speaker 1: really got to embrace more fully alternative energy. Do you
Speaker 1: feel like there's enough thinking of that going on in
Speaker 1: the government or we need to really kind of take
Speaker 1: a big leap forward. I think we need to take
Speaker 1: a big leap forward. Um. I think that we need
Speaker 1: to recognize the crisis that we're in and take big, bold,
Speaker 1: aggressive steps. Um. So, you know, when I was at
Speaker 1: the Department of Interior, I oversaw oil and gas, as
Speaker 1: you said, and renewables, offshore wind and so one of
Speaker 1: the most interesting things that I noticed, and I noticed
Speaker 1: it in solar as well, is that many of the
Speaker 1: first of the European oil and gas majors, and now
Speaker 1: the American oil and gas majors are making big investments
Speaker 1: and renewables right and solar and wind and offshore wind.
Speaker 1: They see it, you know, they understand where the market
Speaker 1: is going, and they understand UM sort of where where
Speaker 1: consumers and regulators and policy makers wants to go, and
Speaker 1: so are diversifying their offerings UM. And that has been
Speaker 1: a really interesting shift of the last few years, is
Speaker 1: to see the shelves and the the dps of the world,
Speaker 1: in addition to the Europeans, like you know, some of
Speaker 1: the other European utilities, UM and oil majors really invests
Speaker 1: heavily in electric vehicles, in solar in storage because it
Speaker 1: is going to be a huge part of our energy next.
Speaker 1: So help me out here, because I think I'm always
Speaker 1: someone like it feels like we were moving along so
Speaker 1: slowly and like tak e vs. I felt like it
Speaker 1: it took somebody like Elon Musk to kind of shake up,
Speaker 1: you know, the establishment, to say, well a minute, we
Speaker 1: can do this faster. And I really do feel like
Speaker 1: he really awakened the auto industry, the global auto industry.
Speaker 1: But help me understand, since you understand this that in
Speaker 1: terms of kind of you know, the old line, Like,
Speaker 1: it's fascinating to hear what you say about Shell and
Speaker 1: MVP and we we knew this that they were looking at,
Speaker 1: you know, renewables. But does it do we have to
Speaker 1: understand it does take some time to kind of shift
Speaker 1: our world two renewables or are there ways that we
Speaker 1: can be it should be doing it faster? And I
Speaker 1: know you're from the solar industry, so you're probably gonna
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, of course we can do it faster.
Speaker 1: But do you know what I'm saying that that that
Speaker 1: it isn't always so easy to kind of shift. We
Speaker 1: don't necessarily we still are struggling with the infrastructure when
Speaker 1: it comes to E VS. Right, No, I so I
Speaker 1: am both a realists, right. I understand how the good works.
Speaker 1: I understand how the technology works. UM, and so there
Speaker 1: are some challenges to rapid deployment, but you're right, you
Speaker 1: need big out of the box spinkers to really um
Speaker 1: come up with creative solutions. And so I and you
Speaker 1: know my background is from all energy, so well, yes,
Speaker 1: I work at the solar industry right now, UM, I
Speaker 1: think I have a pretty holistic to you and I
Speaker 1: think there are things we can do. I think there's
Speaker 1: things that the President and the agencies can do in
Speaker 1: terms of federal procurement. Right the obviously the US government
Speaker 1: and the US M forces or one of the are
Speaker 1: is the largest fire of energy um. And so looking
Speaker 1: at their procurement all of the real estate they have,
Speaker 1: all of our public lands and putting solar and wind
Speaker 1: resources on our public lands. You know, we already do
Speaker 1: oil and gas drilling, so it makes sense to have
Speaker 1: rapid deployment. They're thinking about the technology, thinking about the finance,
Speaker 1: creating UM sort of ways that we that the market.
Speaker 1: You know, it's putting the right marketing centers out there
Speaker 1: and then letting companies respond to it. I think, um,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that we can do to
Speaker 1: to move this transition even more quickly. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: market incentives are really a really really big thing when
Speaker 1: you think about what they can do. Um. Alright, So
Speaker 1: to wrap up, I gotta ask you who's your favorite
Speaker 1: Peloton instructor. I love alex Oh. I think he is.
Speaker 1: He inspires me in a way that none other do.
Speaker 1: How about you, UM, I think, like a lot of people,
Speaker 1: I do like Robin Arson. I like kinda Marie Corbett
Speaker 1: and I have to say I've actually met Robin. Um.
Speaker 1: We've covered Peloton as you would imagine. I've talked to
Speaker 1: John Foley a lot um and I've done stories on
Speaker 1: him and met Robin when they have kind of the
Speaker 1: Peloton annual gathering. Um, they met in New York and
Speaker 1: it was very cool. You know, she's a lawyer. It's
Speaker 1: just it's a very cool world. I just gotta say,
Speaker 1: it isn't very cool. And her personal story is so fascinating.
Speaker 1: I'm excited to watch her um be pregnant and how
Speaker 1: to Davy. And that wraps up our Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: Extra podcast with Abigail ross Hopper, Presidency of the Solar
Speaker 1: Energy Industries Association. She's also a former director of the
Speaker 1: Department of Interiors Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, where she
Speaker 1: led the agency that oversaw the leasing and development of
Speaker 1: all offshore energy, from oil and natural gas to offshore wind.
Speaker 1: Have a great weekend. I'm Carol Masser.