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Speaker 1: I don't know. Every day up waiting, click your ass

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Speaker 1: up the breakfast club. You don't finish for y'all done morning.

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Speaker 2: Everybody is DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne the guy we

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Speaker 2: are to breakfast club. Lola Rosa is here as well.

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Speaker 2: And we got a special guest in the building. Yes,

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Speaker 2: indeed we have Ben Shapiro.

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Speaker 1: Welcome.

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Speaker 3: Hey, thanks for having me. I appreciate and doing okaying

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Speaker 3: all right? Yeah, thank god.

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Speaker 4: Ben's got a new book Outlines and Scavengers The True

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Speaker 4: Story of America.

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Speaker 1: Very interesting read. You define the lion as.

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Speaker 4: People who uphold biblical values, individual responsibility, and moral duty. Yes,

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Speaker 4: and you contrast them with scavengers, who you say demand entitlement,

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Speaker 4: blame systemic oppression, and lack purpose.

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Speaker 1: Expound on that.

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Speaker 3: Sure, So I think the basic division is not a

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Speaker 3: right left division.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: In the book, I actually tried really hard not to

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Speaker 3: turn it into a right left division because I don't

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Speaker 3: think that it actually is. And I think it's also

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Speaker 3: an internal battle, insider on heart that we get up

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Speaker 3: in the morning and you have to decide, when you

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Speaker 3: face down the problems of the day, whether you're going

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Speaker 3: to be somebody who takes responsibility, does your duty, gets

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Speaker 3: out of bed, and actually decides to do something meaningful world.

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Speaker 3: Or there can be somebody who looks at the problems

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Speaker 3: in your life, blames some sort of shadowy system and

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Speaker 3: then complains about that. Now, none of that is to

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Speaker 3: claim that you know, there aren't systems that exist that

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Speaker 3: are bad and that need to be fixed. But you

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Speaker 3: need evidence and you need actual correctives to those systems

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Speaker 3: in order to actually practically fix those systems. So the

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Speaker 3: contrast that I'm making here is between people who decide

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Speaker 3: that they want to build, you know, create social fabric,

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Speaker 3: be innovative, be risk takers, and people who simply want

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Speaker 3: to tear down and you see, you know, for example,

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Speaker 3: it's some of these college protests, people who are marching

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Speaker 3: together who have nothing in common except that they just

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Speaker 3: don't like the system. And they don't even have a

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Speaker 3: replacement for the system. It's just that the system itself

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Speaker 3: must be to blame for all of their problems. So

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Speaker 3: that that's sort of the basic contrast.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I know we just jumped out the window

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Speaker 2: for people that don't know who Ben Shapiro is. Let's

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Speaker 2: start from the beginning explain to people who Ben Shapiro

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Speaker 2: is and where you stought, where you came from, and

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Speaker 2: et cetera, so.

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Speaker 3: They know, sure. I mean, my basic job is that

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Speaker 3: I'm co founder of The Daily Wire, which is the

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Speaker 3: second largest conservative media organization in the country after Fox News. Probably.

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Speaker 3: I have a podcast called The Ben Shapiro Show that's

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Speaker 3: about ten years old now and maybe the biggest conservative

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Speaker 3: podcast in the country. And you know my sort of

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Speaker 3: early beginnings where I grew up in Burbank, California. Thank God,

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Speaker 3: I had the highest form of privilege, which was fantastic parents,

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Speaker 3: and I grew up in a very small, like eleven

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Speaker 3: hundred square foot house with three sisters, one bedroom for us,

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Speaker 3: one for my parents, one bathroom for six people. And

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Speaker 3: you know, I've been again privileged to live in the

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Speaker 3: greatest country in the world. And so went to UCLA,

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Speaker 3: went to Harvard Law School. I've been doing commentary on

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Speaker 3: politics since I was about seventeen years old. I'm now

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Speaker 3: forty one.

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Speaker 2: So it got on the politics so early at seventeen.

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Speaker 2: What did you see this as though, I want to

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Speaker 2: do this? So what didn't you like that made you

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Speaker 2: want to do Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I mean I was always fascinated just by history, and

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Speaker 3: because I was a big reader, I skipped a couple

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Speaker 3: of grades. I went to college when I was sixteen,

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Speaker 3: and so because I loved reading, because I loved history

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Speaker 3: and politics, I just got very, very into it. And

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Speaker 3: you know, we live in interesting times now. I thought

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Speaker 3: they were interesting back when I was seventeen. It is

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Speaker 3: way more interesting insane now. I feel like an alternative

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Speaker 3: timeline somehow spun off into into Elon's you know, fever dream,

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Speaker 3: but it's a it's definitely a we're in a weird

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Speaker 3: place now.

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Speaker 2: Was it goal always to be a commentator or did

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Speaker 2: you want to jump into say I wanted to do

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Speaker 2: something at the White House or.

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Speaker 3: No, it was always to be a commentator. I mean again,

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Speaker 3: from the time I was seventy. I had a syndicated

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Speaker 3: colum when I was seventeen years old, so at the

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Speaker 3: time I was the youngest syndicated commists in the country.

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Speaker 3: I would say most of the dumb crap that I

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Speaker 3: said was between the ages of like seventeen and twenty five,

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Speaker 3: like most people. And I do have a running list

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Speaker 3: on because so much of my you know, kind of

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Speaker 3: political career has been public from the time I was

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Speaker 3: a teenager. I actually have a running list on our

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Speaker 3: website of all the dumb crap that I've said over

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Speaker 3: the course of my career, trying to either explain or

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Speaker 3: apologize for stupid things that I've said.

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Speaker 4: You know, I think we should ever people listed it

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Speaker 4: just blame it on AI. Why would you ever do that?

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Speaker 3: I think it's the honest way to go, right, I mean,

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Speaker 3: better do that otherwise somebody uncovers it and uses it

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Speaker 3: against you. Is you better? You may as well.

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Speaker 1: I agree with that.

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Speaker 4: But you know what, I always had a saying, live

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Speaker 4: your truth, so nobody uses your truth against you. And

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Speaker 4: I call it the minem and eight mount there because

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Speaker 4: you know, at the end the MYM and M said

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Speaker 4: everything you know about himself that his opponent could say

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Speaker 4: about him, They're still gonna use it against your regardless.

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Speaker 3: I mean that's definitely true, but there and so there

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Speaker 3: are certain statements where I'm like, yeah, no, I meant

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Speaker 3: that when I when I wrote that in nineteen and

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Speaker 3: then there are statements where I really think it was

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Speaker 3: kind of dumb. And so I would like people to

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Speaker 3: know that I think that it was dumb that I've

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Speaker 3: changed my mind on things, you know, the biggest one,

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Speaker 3: you think, Let's see, there was a there's a column

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Speaker 3: that I wrote about civilian casualties when I was nineteen

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Speaker 3: years old that was poorly articulated at best, talking about

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Speaker 3: how the US Army should basically not take consideration of

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Speaker 3: civilian casualties because I would rather, you know, protect American

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Speaker 3: soldiers than worry too much about civilian casualties. It wasn't

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Speaker 3: articulated in that way. I think the general principle of

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Speaker 3: that is still you know true that that when you're

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Speaker 3: when you're looking at American soldiers, obviously you have to value

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Speaker 3: their lives and you have to make sure that they

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Speaker 3: can actually engage in wars in ways that protect them

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Speaker 3: because obviously we're American and our interest in America is

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Speaker 3: protecting America. But it was it was very poorly articulated.

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Speaker 3: So that'd be a big one.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel that way about the Israel Gazil war? Sure?

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Speaker 3: Okay, I mean yes, I mean Israel. Again, I know

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Speaker 3: a lot of people over in Israel, obviously, uh, And yeah,

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Speaker 3: I know a lot of soldiers who have grave wounded

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Speaker 3: going house to house and in the conflicts where clearly

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Speaker 3: I know Shaka right, well, what was the giveaway exactly?

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Speaker 4: But but but you believe that so you understand why

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Speaker 4: people are upset about what Israel is doing.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I certainly understand that conflict is incredibly ugly,

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Speaker 3: and when you look at pictures, particularly drone pictures of

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Speaker 3: wrecked areas, then it's very I mean any conflict. I

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Speaker 3: mean yes, although I will say obviously that that I

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Speaker 3: believe that that Israel has been as meticulous as any

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Speaker 3: army in history in terms of its its tactics in

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Speaker 3: urban warfare, and the numbers bear this out. And again

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Speaker 3: I know people who have had their legs blown off

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Speaker 3: going specifically house to house when Israel had complete air superiority.

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Speaker 3: If Israel just didn't care about civilian casualties, they were

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Speaker 3: leveled the place October eighth, and they did not. They've

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Speaker 3: been going house to house, they've been moving populations. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: all this is ugly. There's no such thing as a

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Speaker 3: pretty war, particularly in an urban environment. And could things

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Speaker 3: be done differently or should they be done differently in

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Speaker 3: case by case situations? I'm sure yes, I mean again,

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Speaker 3: war is very ugly, but the sort of large scale

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Speaker 3: accusations that have been made that Israel doesn't care about civilians,

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Speaker 3: or that Israel has been attempting in a ginocide that's

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Speaker 3: just factually untrue.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna ask you, you've been in media.

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Speaker 3: It seems like these days you.

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Speaker 2: Don't know who to trust in media, right, because it

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Speaker 2: seems like media gets it wrong, and we see it

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Speaker 2: all the time with reputable sources. So what do you

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Speaker 2: say to those people, because we don't know what to

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Speaker 2: believe anymore, especially if it's something that we don't necessarily

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Speaker 2: know one thousand percent.

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Speaker 3: So what I say on my show all the time is, actually,

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Speaker 3: you should listen to I'm a conservative. You should listen

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Speaker 3: to my show, and then you should listen to a

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Speaker 3: show coming from the other side, and where we are

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Speaker 3: saying the same thing that's usually the core of fact

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Speaker 3: and everything else's opinion, and then you can sort of

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Speaker 3: determine for yourself whether you think one opinion is more

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Speaker 3: plausible than the other. I obviously agree with me, and

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Speaker 3: so I tend to think that my opinions are well

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Speaker 3: grounded in evidence, in fact. But obviously have a lot

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Speaker 3: of friends who are on the other side of the

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Speaker 3: aisle who believe exactly the same thing. And so I

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Speaker 3: think that the best way to actually achieve your own

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Speaker 3: sense of understanding of the facts is to listen to

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Speaker 3: a wide variety of sources and then try to come

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Speaker 3: to a conclusion that is mostly based in the evidence.

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Speaker 1: And you can well, you know, that's interesting. I want

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Speaker 1: to go back to your book in a second.

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Speaker 4: But I'm glad you said that because you don't think

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Speaker 4: what's happening in God is a genocide.

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Speaker 1: Correct, Okay, but the world's.

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Speaker 4: Leading association of genocide scholars has declared that Israel is

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Speaker 4: committing genocide and God that based off the pure definition of.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's not actually, if if you read their actual study,

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Speaker 3: it's not based on the Quoe unquote pure definition of genocide.

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Speaker 3: They don't actually even define genocide in the document. And

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Speaker 3: they basically went out to their membership, but they didn't

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Speaker 3: go out to the entire membership. They went out to

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Speaker 3: generic membership. It is very easy to join the International

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Speaker 3: Association of Genocide Scholars. In fact, there were several people

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Speaker 3: yesterday who just signed up and were immediately admitted, even

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Speaker 3: though they have no actual background in genocide. The question

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Speaker 3: is not whether some sort of coterie of people who

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Speaker 3: call themselves experts in an issue are quote unquote experts

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Speaker 3: on the issue. The question is whether the definition is met.

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Speaker 3: The definition of genocide is not met in Gaza by

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Speaker 3: any stretch of the imagination. And you can cite to me,

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Speaker 3: you know a group that I hadn't heard of until

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Speaker 3: two seconds ago, and nobody had heard of until two

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Speaker 3: seconds ago, that voted in a particular way. That doesn't

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Speaker 3: make a difference definitionally.

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Speaker 1: So what does a genocide do.

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Speaker 3: A genocide is the attempt to forcibly destroy an entire population,

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Speaker 3: which is not what has happened.

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Speaker 4: So it's not the attacks on like the personal facilities

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Speaker 4: needed for like survival, like healthcare and educational institutions.

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Speaker 3: Well, Israel has shipped in more humanitarian aid into the

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Speaker 3: Gaza Strip than literally any army to in a population

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Speaker 3: that supports the enemy in literally all of the human history.

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Speaker 3: They've been shipping in about forty four hundred calories per

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Speaker 3: day per person into the Gaza Strip in the middle

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Speaker 3: of a war in which the enemy is holding actual

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Speaker 3: Israeli hostages underground, who, as we've seen from some of

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Speaker 3: the pictures, are actually starving. Again, none of this is

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Speaker 3: to claim that the war is pretty or meticulous for anodine,

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Speaker 3: because it isn't. It's really, really, really ugly. But over

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Speaker 3: the course of the about three percent of the Gosmen

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Speaker 3: population has been killed or wounded. If you're going to

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Speaker 3: look at an actual genocide, obviously the prototypical case being

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Speaker 3: the Holocaust, you're looking at fifty percent of the entire

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Speaker 3: Jewish population in Europe destroyed. If you're looking that other

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Speaker 3: attempted genocides, say the genocides in rwand, you're hung about

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Speaker 3: extraordinarily high percentages of the population that are wiped out.

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Speaker 3: You certainly are not seeing procedures that require four layers

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Speaker 3: of actual legal authority in order to do a drone strike.

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Speaker 3: I've actually seen the tape of them doing this in Israel.

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Speaker 3: They actually, if they spot from the air a terrorist

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Speaker 3: who is going into a particular civilian area, you hash

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Speaker 3: to take a full minute where the pilot on the

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Speaker 3: drone calls up the legal authority, who then calls up

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Speaker 3: the higher legal authority to get clearance for the actual

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Speaker 3: drone strike, and they will call off the drone strike

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Speaker 3: if they believe that the military target is too costly.

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Speaker 3: In terms of civilian casualties, and Kamas knows this, which

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Speaker 3: is why they're hiding among civilians. In fact, the best

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Speaker 3: proof that this is not, in fact a purposeful genocide

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Speaker 3: is the fact that Kamas is hiding behind civilians. The

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Speaker 3: reason you hide hind civilians is because you know your

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Speaker 3: enemy doesn't want to kill civilians. If you believe your

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Speaker 3: enemy doesn't care about killing civilians, wouldn't hid among civilians.

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Speaker 3: That wouldn't be a defense mechanism.

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Speaker 1: Do you think Israel needs a regime change?

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Speaker 3: It's I mean, Israel's a democracy. They've had I think

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Speaker 3: five elections in the last four years. There probably will

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Speaker 3: be election again in March. I do not think that

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Speaker 3: Israel would be conducting this war very differently if there

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Speaker 3: were somebody else in power. And I actually know every

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Speaker 3: Israeli prime minister for the last ten years, including the

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Speaker 3: ones who are on the opposite side, people like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you're a Lapeede who's on the opposite side, or enough

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Speaker 3: Tolly Bennet, wh's on the opposite side.

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Speaker 2: And you were just talking earlier, you said about people

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Speaker 2: that don't necessarily have the same beliefs of thoughts that

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Speaker 2: you have, and that was a big conversation. When Trump

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Speaker 2: came into office, people were saying, I can't speak with

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Speaker 2: you, you can't be my friend, you can't come to my

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Speaker 2: house because I don't believe what you believe.

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Speaker 1: How do you feel about that?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's insane. It's totally insane. I

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Speaker 3: have a lot of friends who are on the other

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Speaker 3: side of the aulehavoaded for Kamala Harris, who voted for

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Speaker 3: Joe Biden in twenty twenty. I think the real question

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Speaker 3: is whether you know we are going to I think

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Speaker 3: that there are people for whom you can't a conversation

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Speaker 3: because motivations for the conversation are so different that it's

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Speaker 3: not possible to actually have a productive conversation. And they

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Speaker 3: are just so many breaths in your life that you

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Speaker 3: have and wasting your breath When you're on your deathbed,

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Speaker 3: do you really want to be thinking about those two

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Speaker 3: hours that you spend talking to the person who is

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Speaker 3: just arguing right past you or or you know? And

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Speaker 3: then there are conversations where you disagree on the proper solutions,

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Speaker 3: you may even disagree on the goals, but you can

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Speaker 3: have like a good conversation without doubting the good heart

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Speaker 3: of the person who's talking to you.

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Speaker 4: You you talked about I like the lines of scavenges analogy, right,

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Speaker 4: But I want you to expound on it because you

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Speaker 4: say it's not a political thing, it's not a race thing.

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Speaker 4: Do you feel like that could be an overly simplistic

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Speaker 4: way of analyzing these societal conflicts though, because all of

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Speaker 4: those things play a role.

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Speaker 3: I mean, so any bindaria is going to oversimplify. Anytime

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Speaker 3: you say there's two types of people X and Y, right,

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Speaker 3: then that's always going to be an oversimplification for in

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Speaker 3: the most in the most part, as far as you

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Speaker 3: know the complex factors that the factor into a conflict,

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Speaker 3: of course, you have to analyze those to determine whether

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Speaker 3: it's being driven by envy or whether it's being driven

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Speaker 3: by a legitimate grievance. Right, And so I think that

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Speaker 3: some people can have a goal that is driven by

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Speaker 3: a legitimate grievance, and some people can have a goal

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Speaker 3: that's driven by envy. I think frankly, politicians in particular

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Speaker 3: are they have a very great understanding that envy is

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Speaker 3: an amazing way to get people out of the bolls.

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Speaker 3: Like really an amazing way, or if you're a dictator,

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Speaker 3: being envious of the neighboring country is an amazing way

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Speaker 3: to get people really, really motivated. And so you can

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Speaker 3: channel people's grievance into a belief that they should hand

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Speaker 3: you power so that you can go and do things.

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Speaker 3: And I don't think that's unique to one side of

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Speaker 3: the political out at all. In fact, I think you

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Speaker 3: see politicians do this legitimately all the time. And again

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Speaker 3: that doesn't mean that the people at the sort of

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Speaker 3: the bottom level of politics, the normal voter, doesn't have

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Speaker 3: a grievance. The question that I think that we all

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Speaker 3: ought to ask ourselves, and this is true everywhere from

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Speaker 3: your personal life to politics, is whether that grievance is

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Speaker 3: justified by the evidence, and what is the change that

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Speaker 3: you would seek to make specifically that would actually rectify

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Speaker 3: that grievance, Because I think that one of the dangers

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Speaker 3: is that people have a grievance they say this thing

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Speaker 3: is unfair. Therefore the entire system is corrupt and we

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Speaker 3: need to abolish the entire system. And one of the

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Speaker 3: main differences between what what G. K. Chesterton would call

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Speaker 3: it conservative and somebody who's not conservative is that that

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Speaker 3: somebody who's not conservative, he famously uses this analogy, walks

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Speaker 3: across a field, sees an old fence in a field

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Speaker 3: and says, I don't know why this fence is here,

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Speaker 3: and immediately starts up brooting the fence. And a conservative

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Speaker 3: what I would say is somebody who's even common sensical,

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Speaker 3: forget the politics, looks at the fence says I probably

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Speaker 3: should research why somebody put the fence here in the

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Speaker 3: first place, and then maybe we remove the fence. And

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Speaker 3: I think that as a society, we've gone directly to

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Speaker 3: let's just remove every fence because I'm angry at what's

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Speaker 3: happening in my life, and you're going to throw a

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Speaker 3: lot of babies out with a very small amount of bathwater.

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Speaker 5: What about if that fence, though, has been blocking the

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Speaker 5: person that decides that wants to remove it from whatever's

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Speaker 5: on the other side for like years, in generations and generations,

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Speaker 5: and whatever's on the other side, they actually need it

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Speaker 5: to live, survive, thrive, so then they want to remove it,

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Speaker 5: regardless of why was originally put there.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So, as I say, I think that there there

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Speaker 3: are definitely fences that need to be removed and what

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Speaker 3: I've said in my entire career is if you can

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Speaker 3: show me a fence that is actually blocking people from success,

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Speaker 3: then I'll join you in trying to uproot that fence.

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Speaker 3: But I need like an exact and specific explanation for

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Speaker 3: why there is this cause and effect and how removing

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Speaker 3: the fence isn't going to do less damage than leaving

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Speaker 3: the fence in place, because there are unintended consequences to

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Speaker 3: changing public policy, and obviously it doesn't mean public policy should

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Speaker 3: remain unchanging. There are tons of public policies that I

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Speaker 3: think should be changed all over the place. This is

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Speaker 3: an argument against change. It's an argument in favor of

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Speaker 3: caution and also in favor of us all kind of

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Speaker 3: being reflective about why we are doing the things that

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Speaker 3: we're doing, Meaning are we doing this because I have

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Speaker 3: a problem in my life that I just don't want

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Speaker 3: to solve, and so it's easier to blame sort of

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Speaker 3: a shadowy system where I can't name the specific problem,

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Speaker 3: or do I have a problem that really I should

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Speaker 3: try solving first before I start kind of wrecking the systems.

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Speaker 3: By the way, it's a good rule again for life.

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Speaker 3: There's a great book called Good to Great About Business,

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Speaker 3: in which the author his name is Jim Collins, talks

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Speaker 3: about the difference between successful business leaders and unsuccessful business leaders,

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Speaker 3: and he calls it the difference between mirror people and

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Speaker 3: window people. And what he says is that successful business

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Speaker 3: leaders they have a problem and they look in the

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Speaker 3: mirror and they say, what can I change? What can

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Speaker 3: I do to make this better? And unsuccessful people they

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Speaker 3: have a problem and they look at the window and

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Speaker 3: they say, what out there is making it so that

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Speaker 3: it's impossible for me to succeed. Again, that's not an

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Speaker 3: argument that sometimes there is something outside the window, but

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Speaker 3: for sure, But I think that as human beings, our

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Speaker 3: first move should be, particularly in the freest, most prosperous

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Speaker 3: country literally in the history of planet Earth, our first

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Speaker 3: move should be for most of our problems, not all,

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Speaker 3: but most of our problems should be like, what can

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Speaker 3: I do differently to fix my life? Because many of

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Speaker 3: the I think the most energizing aspect of being an

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Speaker 3: American is the idea that you actually do have the

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Speaker 3: capacity to change your life. And I think that any

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Speaker 3: politics that is rooted in this feeling of enervation and

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Speaker 3: kind of like marinating and nothing I do can get

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Speaker 3: me ahead. Nothing I do is going to change where

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Speaker 3: I am. I think the vast majority of cases that

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Speaker 3: really is not true. I think in the vast majority

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Speaker 3: of cases, we can all make better decisions that change

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Speaker 3: our lives.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's a and you talk about this

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Speaker 1: in the book a lot.

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Speaker 4: I think there's a difference between practicing victimhood and actually

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Speaker 4: being a victim. You know, you're a Jewish person, I'm

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Speaker 4: a black man. We've actually been victims of a system.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I mean, and again, I think that those systems

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Speaker 3: can be changed, but I think that it is very

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Speaker 3: important that we Again, I think it's a great distinction

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Speaker 3: between actual victim because you can name times when you've

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Speaker 3: been a victim, and you can name the systems that

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Speaker 3: have made you a victim and how they've made you

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Speaker 3: a victim. And the more specific we are, the more

401
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Speaker 3: we can agree. I found that in politics, where the

402
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Speaker 3: big disagreements tend to happen are at the very abstract level,

403
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Speaker 3: when you get down to the material and you say, Okay,

404
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Speaker 3: you know this guy is a bad guy and this

405
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Speaker 3: person just did X to me, Well, okay, that person

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Speaker 3: should be arrested, right, we all agree that person should

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Speaker 3: be arrested or what just happened is really bad and

408
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Speaker 3: we should change this specific thing. But again, I think

409
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Speaker 3: that the goal in a lot of politics is what's

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Speaker 3: called semantic overload. You use terms that can be differential

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Speaker 3: interpreted by both sides to sort of signal to one

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Speaker 3: side one thing and signal to one side the other thing.

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Speaker 3: Black Lives Matter is a great example of this, where

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Speaker 3: black lives matter. Obviously that's true. Obviously it's true that

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Speaker 3: black lives matter, But what do you mean by black

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Speaker 3: lives matter? And so one side we'll read from that

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Speaker 3: we're just saying that black people should be treated exactly

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Speaker 3: the same as anybody else and should not be systemically

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Speaker 3: discriminated against, And the other side will read from it

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Speaker 3: what you're saying is that black people deserve some special privileges,

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Speaker 3: or you're making the argument that America is deeply and

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Speaker 3: systemically racist and every discrepancy between black people and white

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Speaker 3: people in outcome is due to the system. Right, And

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Speaker 3: it means both of those things, but it depends on

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Speaker 3: who's using it and how, and so being very specific

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Speaker 3: in how we use our words and asking clarifying questions like,

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Speaker 3: what do you mean by that? Can you be more specific?

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Speaker 3: Is a better way to do politics. It's the conversation

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Speaker 3: we're just having about genocide. Let's define what genocide means,

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Speaker 3: and then we can actually determine whether we think that

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Speaker 3: is a thing that is happening, whether there's an intent

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Speaker 3: to do it. If we just say genocide and kind

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Speaker 3: of throw that out there and people were saying that

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Speaker 3: word for example October eighth, like before Israel had even responded,

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Speaker 3: then if you do that, then all you end up

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Speaker 3: doing is making the conversation dumber and everybody more angry.

437
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:04,320
Speaker 1: And you know, it's inthroessent about that.

438
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,159
Speaker 4: I can usually tend to see both sides, meaning like

439
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,240
Speaker 4: I can understand why people say it's a genocide, but

440
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,240
Speaker 4: then you know, I can understand why people initial stitate

441
00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,800
Speaker 4: this is just us defending ourselves and an act of war.

442
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,600
Speaker 4: And as you said, you know there's a lot of casualties,

443
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,960
Speaker 4: civilian casualties that happen in acts of war, but you

444
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:23,560
Speaker 4: don't really know that if you don't talk to people

445
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:24,680
Speaker 4: on both sides.

446
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:26,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's right, And

447
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 3: again I think that genocide in that particular context. There

448
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,520
Speaker 3: are words that people use to express outrage that don't

449
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,040
Speaker 3: necessarily the definition doesn't fit up with the word. I

450
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,520
Speaker 3: think when people say genocide, generally what they mean is

451
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,359
Speaker 3: I'm very angry at what's happening and I wish it

452
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,840
Speaker 3: would stop. And so they throw out genocide because the

453
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,920
Speaker 3: worst thing they can think of, because if you say that,

454
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,080
Speaker 3: then maybe Israel should stop. And you know, again, I

455
00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,560
Speaker 3: think that you can empathize with that, because I think

456
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,119
Speaker 3: everybody wants to stop, including by the way, the Israelis

457
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,840
Speaker 3: who would love for Hamas to surrender their weapons, stop,

458
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,280
Speaker 3: walk away and the war ends. I mean, I promise

459
00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 3: you that in Israel, where they're drafting every eighteen year

460
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,320
Speaker 3: old kid, every eighteen year old kid in Israel goes

461
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,159
Speaker 3: to the military, and they've been doing this for generations,

462
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,600
Speaker 3: that is not something that anyone wants to do. That's

463
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:07,720
Speaker 3: not something where it's like you wake up in the

464
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:09,000
Speaker 3: morning at eighteen year like you know what I'd love

465
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,520
Speaker 3: to do. I'd go, I really really want to go

466
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:15,159
Speaker 3: patrol Enganine, like nobody is doing that over there, Like

467
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,600
Speaker 3: everybody would love for this thing to come to an end.

468
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,960
Speaker 3: But again, I think that that using words imprecisely is

469
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:22,879
Speaker 3: the enemy of agreement and truth.

470
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,199
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean yeah, I get yeah, I understand what

471
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:28,840
Speaker 4: you're saying, because you know, like you could get caught

472
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,960
Speaker 4: up in just arguing that as opposed to arguing, hey,

473
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:32,960
Speaker 4: all of this is fucked up?

474
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,080
Speaker 3: Yes, oh, and how do what's the solution then? Right,

475
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:37,719
Speaker 3: what's the solution? How do we get to the end

476
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,160
Speaker 3: of it? Because once you actually start clarifying that stuff,

477
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,640
Speaker 3: you realize what a difficult situation this is. I think

478
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,800
Speaker 3: that very often because politics is difficult and complex. In

479
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,119
Speaker 3: order to avoid the conversation of how should we solve this,

480
00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,160
Speaker 3: which is a hard conversation and sometimes a boring conversation,

481
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 3: it's much more fun to discuss is it genocide? Is

482
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,160
Speaker 3: it not genocide? Do black lives matter?

483
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:56,320
Speaker 1: Do?

484
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:57,640
Speaker 3: Is it all lives matter?

485
00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:57,879
Speaker 1: Right?

486
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,080
Speaker 3: It's more fun and interesting and I see conversation. Then,

487
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,399
Speaker 3: what are these specific things that the police department should

488
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,399
Speaker 3: do in order to, for example, prevent police excesses? That's

489
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,639
Speaker 3: like a very specific conversation, and it usually ends up

490
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,199
Speaker 3: at a city council meeting, right, But in the business

491
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,159
Speaker 3: that we're all in where we're talking about these issues.

492
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 3: It is much easier to do diagnostics of the problem

493
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 3: in broad terms than to do actual prognosis, like what

494
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:22,960
Speaker 3: do we do next, what's the thing we should all

495
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:24,440
Speaker 3: pursue in order to fix the problem.

496
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 4: I saw you getting caught up in that a little

497
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,359
Speaker 4: bit on Abby Phillis though, and y'all were debating about.

498
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 6: I think it was Chicago, DC.

499
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:31,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it diss of.

500
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,399
Speaker 4: People saying, hey, we we approve of what was it?

501
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,080
Speaker 4: The crime, the way that they're reducing the way that

502
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,480
Speaker 4: they're using the way that they're reducing crime in DC.

503
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,080
Speaker 1: Yes, by having the troops on the ground.

504
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,879
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, So I mean I think that the question

505
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 3: as to whether the crime has been reduced by National

506
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 3: Guard troops on the ground in DC.

507
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 1: The crime has being reduced prior to that, though it.

508
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 3: Was, and then it was reduced more, and so the

509
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 3: question is you know why, And the answer typically is

510
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,880
Speaker 3: that when people see law enforcement in places they don't

511
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,040
Speaker 3: do as many crimes. That the question is whether that

512
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,240
Speaker 3: can be an indefinite solution in Washington, d C. And

513
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,359
Speaker 3: that's also a very different question between Washington, d C.

514
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 3: And Chicago. One of the things that they came up

515
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,399
Speaker 3: very briefly in that Abbey Phillips panel was what should

516
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:11,679
Speaker 3: be done in Chicago, And one of the things that

517
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 3: I said is I don't think that the President has

518
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 3: the authorities just send the National Guard into Chicago to

519
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:18,680
Speaker 3: actually just police crime, right, that is illegal under the

520
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,159
Speaker 3: Possi Committatus Act. There are things he can do legally

521
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,879
Speaker 3: that like, for example, protect ice facilities, which is what

522
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 3: they were allegedly doing in California. One of the things

523
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 3: that I think the President is doing that's actually quite

524
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 3: smart now is he's shifting to red states. So yesterday

525
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 3: he announced that he might not do Chicago after all.

526
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,399
Speaker 3: He might instead do New Orleans and Shreveport, which is

527
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 3: smart because he can do that with the permission of

528
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 3: the governor. Right the governor is a red state governor.

529
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

530
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:42,639
Speaker 4: But the only problem with Dad, though, is he's going

531
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 4: to go into these red states and probably go into

532
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,359
Speaker 4: these cities that have black maris and large black populations

533
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 4: and overpolice them. And that's not what those cities are

534
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,640
Speaker 4: towns need, Like, those cities and towns need actual resources

535
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,879
Speaker 4: because as you just said, these are like temporary solutions

536
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 4: for a long systemic problem.

537
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 3: Well, so I think they need both, and I think

538
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 3: that when it comes to crime, and New York City

539
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 3: is a great example of this, you actually need to

540
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,640
Speaker 3: lower the crime rates to draw investment.

541
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:09,239
Speaker 1: Right.

542
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,440
Speaker 3: One of the big problems with investing in high crime

543
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 3: areas is that people don't want to do it. They're

544
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 3: afraid that if they take their money they put into

545
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 3: a grocery store and there's a lot of shoplifting in

546
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 3: that area, then the store goes out of business.

547
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 1: It's another kind of investment I'm talking about.

548
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,880
Speaker 4: I'm talking about economic opportunity, job training programs, I'm talking

549
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 4: about small business investment, early intervention program I'm talking about

550
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 4: you know, proper mental health services.

551
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 1: Those are the type of investments I'm talking about. It.

552
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 3: I'm not antipe any of those community right now, I

553
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 3: agree with that, But but if you're talking about like

554
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 3: how a community actually grows and thrives and becomes self sustaining,

555
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 3: it can't do it off public dollars indefinitely. And so

556
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,919
Speaker 3: you do need an enormous amount of private investment to

557
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 3: make areas better.

558
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 1: Right.

559
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 3: This is what actually Van Jones was talking about on

560
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 3: the show when he was talking about opportunity zones. Right.

561
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 3: Originally this was the idea that was put forth by

562
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 3: the Trump administration in Trump Administration Number one, that there

563
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 3: would be particular areas where basically there would be tax

564
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 3: incentives to invest in the in these areas. It's definitely

565
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 3: an interesting idea. I think the reality is that you

566
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 3: may not need that if the crime rates get low enough.

567
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 3: And so the goal would be that you lower the

568
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 3: crime rates enough so that people feel comfortable investing their

569
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 3: own private dollars in building businesses in these areas, providing

570
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 3: jobs in these areas, because again, as somebody who invests,

571
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 3: you know, a fair bet I would rather invest in

572
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 3: a low crime area than a high crime area. And

573
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 3: that's not a racial thing. That is just that is

574
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 3: just a basic investment procedure. Right, If you're gonna set

575
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 3: up a store, you're going to set up a store

576
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 3: in a place where it's less likely to be robbed.

577
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 4: What if the government investing in mentorship and after school

578
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 4: programs and mental health and addiction.

579
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: Services like to me, like those are the type of

580
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: things you have.

581
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 4: To change the people in a community as opposed to

582
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 4: just you know, putting a bunch of businesses there. Because

583
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 4: if you put a bunch of businesses there, and it's

584
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,360
Speaker 4: still a bunch of you know, poor and disenfranchised people,

585
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 4: not just financially but emotionally and mentally spiritually.

586
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 1: That's not gonna change it.

587
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I think that the government has spent

588
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 3: an awful lot of money and taking an awful lot

589
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 3: of time with things like mentorship and after school programs.

590
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 3: I think the results are at best mixed from the

591
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 3: social science data. The best studies that I've seen on this,

592
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 3: there's a great sity by rolland Fryer over at Harvard

593
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 3: in which you talked about what you really Mentorship is

594
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 3: definitely a thing. You definitely need more men in communities,

595
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 3: and they don't necessarily have to be the fathers of

596
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 3: the kids you need more. What the study showed is

597
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 3: that even kids of single moms who are growing up

598
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:16,120
Speaker 3: in communities with high levels of male involvement did find

599
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 3: they did well. Where you really have a problem is

600
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 3: where there are not enough male models, particularly for young males,

601
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 3: because young males tend to be significantly more destructive to

602
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 3: the community when they don't have dads than young females.

603
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 3: That there are real problems with not having a dad

604
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 3: in the home for girls as well, but it's a

605
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 3: different set of problems than it is for young men

606
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 3: who tend to externalize that in the form of crime,

607
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 3: for example. And so you know, I think that one

608
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 3: of the things that I've also talked about is that government,

609
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:40,679
Speaker 3: and this is where you get into the love on

610
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 3: intended consequences. When government intervenes in a lot of these ways,

611
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,360
Speaker 3: it tends to supplant some of the actual organic institutions

612
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 3: that used to do this sort of thing. So I'm

613
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 3: a big advocate.

614
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 4: Most places still exists. I just think that's sometimes they

615
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 4: lack funding. Like there's every problem that we're talking about.

616
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 4: I promise you as an organization in every single community.

617
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,439
Speaker 1: That you know caters today, but they just lack funding

618
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: and a lot.

619
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,479
Speaker 3: Of well, I think that's true. I also think that

620
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,919
Speaker 3: the number one institution that used to helps all these

621
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 3: problems with church, and as levels of church going go down,

622
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 3: that is a major problem because the nice thing about

623
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,400
Speaker 3: a church is that when a church, anagogue, or any

624
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,159
Speaker 3: other religious institution gives charity, then there's also skin in

625
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 3: the game for the person who's receiving the charity. You

626
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 3: actually have to buy into the system in order to

627
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 3: receive the charity to a certain extent, because you're a

628
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 3: member of the community, you also know the person who

629
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 3: you're receiving the money from. That person is a person

630
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 3: you sit next to in the pews, and so government

631
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 3: can't really be a substitute for that, just in terms

632
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 3: of like cutting a check. And so I do like

633
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 3: this is something that Bush and Obama and other presidents

634
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 3: have done, was trying to do a private public partnership with,

635
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,199
Speaker 3: for example, churches to ensure they have the funding to

636
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 3: do this sort of stuff. But there does need to

637
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 3: be a cultural reshift toward the social value of getting

638
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 3: together in places that are not online. I think the

639
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 3: Internet sent an awful lot of damage. I think that

640
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 3: the atomization of our society, where everybody kind of sits

641
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 3: in their own room ever get together with other people,

642
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 3: is really, really, really bad. I'm in a very involved

643
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 3: in a good community, and one of the beautiful things

644
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 3: about a highly involved in agog or church community is

645
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 3: that a lot of the lines that we talk about

646
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 3: go away. And this is what Robert Putnam and Harvard

647
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 3: scholar and not on my side of the political aisle,

648
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 3: has said. He says that that if you actually want

649
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 3: to build social fabric in community. What you need is

650
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,239
Speaker 3: a common goal, and you need people getting together, like

651
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 3: in person, socially, and that's what churches tend to do.

652
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 3: And that's that's really really important. I don't think that

653
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 3: any sort of government, you know, artificial alternative, is going

654
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 3: to be able to do all of those things. And community, yes, community,

655
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 3: And this is where I get back to, like, these

656
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 3: are all choices that we can make personally. Right, we

657
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 3: can make the choice like today, whether we want to

658
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 3: go to church on Sunday, Right, we can all make

659
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,959
Speaker 3: that choice, right, And when it comes to our relationships,

660
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 3: we can all make the choice as to whether we

661
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 3: would like I mean, with rare exceptions, obviously there are,

662
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 3: but most people can make the choice as to whether

663
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 3: to get pregnant out of wedlock. I mean, like, these

664
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 3: these are choices that we all can make. And we

665
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 3: need to teach our kids because if we do that

666
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 3: then their lives will be better, and if we don't

667
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 3: do that, then their lives will be worse.

668
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: Can you believe in bandon abortions? Right?

669
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 3: I'm pro life, yes, even in cases of incests and

670
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 3: rate yes. Why because this is a sort of a

671
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 3: fundamental definitional question. If you believe life begins at conception,

672
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 3: then regardless of the source of the life, it now

673
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,239
Speaker 3: has an independent interest in life. So that is not

674
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 3: to minimize the tremendous evil of rape or incests. I

675
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 3: believe rape should be executed frankly or chemically castrated at best.

676
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 3: But you know that that's sort of a different question

677
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 3: from the independent source of life and whether whether this again,

678
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 3: it gets back to definitions, and this conversation tends to

679
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:43,479
Speaker 3: be either you're on one side of that or the other.

680
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 3: If you don't believe life begins at conception, then obviously

681
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 3: you believe abortion is acceptable in a wide variety of circumstances.

682
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 3: If you believe it's an independent life deserving of protection,

683
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 3: then you believe it's an independent life deserving of protection.

684
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: Or what do you think about that? I'm just one.

685
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 5: I think that a woman should be able to choose

686
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 5: to do what she wants to do wherever she decides

687
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 5: to do it. I personally, I believe that women should

688
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,719
Speaker 5: be able to abort babies if they want to, if

689
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 5: they feel like that's what they need to do.

690
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 3: Do you have a time limit on that? Out of curiosity.

691
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 5: I mean, I think it should happen earlier on if

692
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 5: it were me making a decision for myself. But I

693
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 5: think it's up to the woman and what she's personally

694
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 5: experiencing and what she personally went through. I really think

695
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 5: it's a per person thing. That's why I think it's

696
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 5: crazy when you have like these structures and these like

697
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 5: people who are not in that situation making the decision

698
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 5: for the woman of what you can and can't do,

699
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 5: because it's very like, per person, my situation might be

700
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,239
Speaker 5: different than another woman who's it next to me.

701
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 3: Right, So again, this is sort of the definitional issue

702
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 3: that we're talking about, because you're talking about what a

703
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 3: woman should be allowed to do, and what I'm talking

704
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 3: about is the definition of personhood of the separate person

705
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 3: inside the woman. I think that what I push on

706
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 3: is why do you personally believe that women should have

707
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 3: an abortion earlier?

708
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 5: I think, just from personal experience I've been in this situation.

709
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 5: I just think emotionally and mentally, it's less that you

710
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 5: think about, but it does depend on how you think

711
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 5: of when the life life is formed or you know,

712
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 5: should be looked at as like a life that you right.

713
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 3: So that's that's that I think is the big question,

714
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 3: and that's where the disconnect is.

715
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 5: So so, but that what I'm saying is that that's

716
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 5: always going to be different for each person.

717
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 3: But I don't think that the subjective definition of life

718
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 3: is how we define life. Meaning that you being uncomfortable

719
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 3: with a woman having an abortion in the ninth month,

720
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 3: you're saying that just because you're uncomfortable with it, that

721
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 3: doesn't mean that you should stop a woman from doing that.

722
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 3: My point is that life has a definition.

723
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: Right.

724
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 3: We all agree, for example, that a one month old

725
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 3: baby should not be drowned. We all agree on that,

726
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 3: and that's not up to the personal maybe and drowned

727
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 3: about them?

728
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: Right?

729
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 3: And the question is, well, why because we now understand

730
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 3: that the one month old baby. Everyone agrees with this,

731
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 3: right except for Peter Singer at Princeton, that a one

732
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 3: month old baby has an independent interest in life, right,

733
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 3: That is a life that is that is separate from

734
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 3: the woman and requires protection. Okay, So if it is

735
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 3: a life, then we now have an objective definition. Doesn't

736
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 3: matter what the state of mind of the woman is,

737
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 3: doesn't matter if she thought, you know what, I have

738
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 3: a really tough life. My life will be better off

739
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 3: if this baby is drowned, if I don't have to

740
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 3: deal with this baby, and so I'm gonna drown the baby.

741
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 3: That the baby has an independent, actual interest in living.

742
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 3: And so the question becomes is that true before birth?

743
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 3: And I think for the vast majority of Americans are

744
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 3: actually somewhere where you are, practically meaning that the vast

745
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 3: majority of Americans do see in sort of a soft way,

746
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 3: a distinction between you know, the early stages of life,

747
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 3: you know, month two and nine month. Right, Like, the

748
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 3: approval in America of abortion at the very late stages

749
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 3: is very, very low because most.

750
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 5: Americans stops around like four or five months for most people,

751
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 5: right Well.

752
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 3: I mean most abortions are performed in the in the

753
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 3: first time. Yes, yes, But the point that I'm making

754
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 3: is that the logic that you're using allows for abortion,

755
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 3: like literally right before the baby is born. So then

756
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 3: the question becomes why is that Okay? And it's not

757
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 3: a woman's choice at that point, whether that is a

758
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 3: life or not, because you don't get to artificially or

759
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 3: subjectively define the meaning.

760
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: Of the thing.

761
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 3: See that's fact, it's not semantic. It's a life or

762
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 3: it's not a life.

763
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 2: Right, your daughter was written it's almost like you're saying,

764
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 2: she rape, but I'm gonna make her have this child.

765
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 3: No, I mean, as you say, you don't believe in

766
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 3: abortion even if rape and incests. Right. What I'm saying

767
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 3: there is that I don't believe in abortion in case

768
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 3: of rape and incest. The practical effect is horrif horrible. Okay,

769
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 3: I'm not going to pretend that it is not emotionally

770
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 3: horrifying that particular situation. The question is whether it has

771
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 3: an independent interest in life or not, and whether there's

772
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 3: a third party involved. If you don't believe there's a

773
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 3: third party deserving a protection, I totally get it. I

774
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 3: get it, but we should we should understand. That's the

775
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 3: actual conversation. The actual conversation is about whether you believe

776
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 3: that this is an interested third party being. Do you

777
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 3: get to kill that interested third party being, this human

778
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 3: life with potential or do you not? If you and so,

779
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 3: the actual argument that I don't like is the idea

780
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 3: that you can that everybody it's up to every single

781
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 3: person to define when life begins and when life does

782
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 3: not begin. That that actually is not true, right, there's either

783
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 3: a standard or there's not a Now you can say

784
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 3: that that life begins when the baby is independent of

785
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 3: the mom. I think it's a very dicey biological argument,

786
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 3: and I think most Americans agree with that, that that

787
00:31:58,440 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 3: life only begins when the baby.

788
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: Exits I think the heartbeat.

789
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so I think that's where most Americans are.

790
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 3: And that's extremely early, right. And so if that's extremely

791
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 3: if the life begins with the heartbeat, then you're now

792
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 3: talking about, depending on your definition of a heartbeat, somewhere

793
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 3: between six and ten weeks, right, very very very early.

794
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 3: And so if that is now has an independent interest,

795
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,719
Speaker 3: you're talking about abortion restrictions very early on. And so

796
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 3: that's why you know a lot of red states of

797
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 3: heartbeat laws for example. And so again I think that

798
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 3: the clarity is good, right, because now we can have

799
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 3: a conversation where do you think life begins? And that's

800
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 3: a better conversation than the sort of assumption by I

801
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 3: think people who are not pro life that it's just

802
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 3: about controlling the woman's body. No, it isn't, Okay, it

803
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 3: really is not. Like for pro lifers, it has literally

804
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 3: nothing to do with the woman's body. It has to

805
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 3: do with the independent interest of the life inside the

806
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 3: woman and how you define that.

807
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,719
Speaker 5: We want you to find it once you define it,

808
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 5: dependent on your definition. It does control what a woman

809
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 5: can and can't do with their body.

810
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 3: Well, they're downstam affects definitions of course, right. I mean,

811
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 3: if I define life as it begins at a heartbeat,

812
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 3: then that is going to have public policy ramifications that

813
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 3: affect just as in anything else. If I define theft

814
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 3: in a particular way, that's going to have downstream effects

815
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 3: on people who commit that definition of the crime. And

816
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 3: if I broaden the definition, it's going to include more people.

817
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 3: And that's true for literally any legal term. It's true

818
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 3: for any word that we use in life. As you

819
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 3: expand the definition, it affects more people in different ways.

820
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 3: But that doesn't change the necessity to have the conversation

821
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 3: about what the definition is. And I think it's an

822
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 3: easy way out to basically say, well, you know, I

823
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 3: have a definition of life. But and it gets into

824
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 3: very icy territory because historically people have defined to define

825
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 3: a way entire populations as not human and so we

826
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 3: can't do that, right, Like, you really don't want people

827
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 3: looking at other people and saying, well, by you know,

828
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 3: I don't think that this person I mean to take

829
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 3: them the obvious and most controversial example for a huge

830
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 3: percentage of American history, there was a wide variety of

831
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 3: people in America who believe black people were not fully

832
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 3: human in their contenslations, right, correct? And so the and

833
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 3: so was that a subjective question? That was not a

834
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 3: subjective question. Black people are fully human and just as

835
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 3: human as white people equal the same, right Like, and

836
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 3: so if somebody were to say, listen, I personally am

837
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 3: anti slavery. I think that slavery is personally wrong. But

838
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 3: it's really up to every person to define for themselves

839
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 3: whether a black person is fully a human or not

840
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 3: fully a human?

841
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 6: Like what the why don't think you can do things?

842
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 5: Why just because I think you know, if if I'm

843
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 5: making so, if you're a slave master, right, and you

844
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 5: say I believe slavery is right because black people aren't human, Like,

845
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 5: that's a decision that you're making that is based on

846
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 5: things like you know what the slaves can do for

847
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,280
Speaker 5: you and your property, like the benefit of what slavery

848
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 5: will do for that slave masters? So different than if

849
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 5: a woman has to have a baby because she was raped,

850
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 5: and how that will affect her life Like that, I

851
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 5: think you have a decision that you can make a

852
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 5: lot easier.

853
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 2: So almost like you force a woman twice, right, because

854
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 2: do I become a slave master?

855
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: Try Jewish analogy?

856
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 3: Sure? So, I mean, I mean sure so if there

857
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 3: was an entire population in Europe that was considered sub

858
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 3: human by the Nazis and they were exterminated. If you said,

859
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 3: I am personally against the extermination of the Jews, but

860
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 3: I understand why Germans could think the Jews are subhuman,

861
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 3: and so you know, it really is up to each

862
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 3: every individual to determine whether a Jew is human or

863
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 3: not fully human and can be put in the back

864
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 3: of a van and gas. We'd be like, what are

865
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 3: what in the world.

866
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: What you're saying? There's to be no pro choice.

867
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,720
Speaker 3: In God, Yes, the definitions are not a matter of choice.

868
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 3: Definitions are a matter of actual objective fact. Otherwise we

869
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 3: can't even have a conversation because if words have meanings,

870
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:39,359
Speaker 3: then we all have to agree on that at least

871
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 3: that right, that much we have to agree on is

872
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 3: the meaning of the words. And when it comes to

873
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 3: you know, so the slave master analogy. The point that

874
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 3: I'm making here is not about the personal experience of

875
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 3: the slave master. In fact, I'm saying it's completely irrelevant.

876
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 3: What I'm saying is that the reason that slavery was

877
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 3: wrong is because black people are fully independent human beings

878
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 3: who require the protection of the law in the same

879
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 3: way as everyone else. If you're a pro lifeer, you

880
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 3: believe that's also true of the unborn.

881
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: Okay, I understand what you're saying.

882
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 4: I'm a pro choice person, but I do wonder how

883
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 4: come pro life people aren't anti war?

884
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,760
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, because anti I think everybody is anti war.

885
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 3: I think the question is is the definition of when

886
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,479
Speaker 3: war is appropriate? I don't think I like, who's running

887
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 3: around going like war is awesome? Yes, more war, let's

888
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 3: do it.

889
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,959
Speaker 1: So fifty thousand kids have been killed in God because of.

890
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 3: This current depends on on the definitions and the list

891
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 3: that you're getting. Well, I mean, it also depends on

892
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 3: how you're defining kid, because the way that Hamas defines

893
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 3: kid is very different than how they define kid when

894
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 3: it comes to recruiting for Kamas. Right there, they are

895
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 3: fifteen year olds with with aks on the battlefield. Unfortunately,

896
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 3: it is not fifty thousand.

897
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: Of the one.

898
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 3: I mean, if you're talking about I you're talking about

899
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 3: very very small children, is much much lower than that.

900
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: My point is there are children that are being.

901
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 3: Killed, yes, who have died as collateral damage in the war.

902
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: Yet so shouldn't pro life would be totally against it?

903
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,240
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I'm against the death of any innocent

904
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 3: human being. The question is, when you're doing foreign policy,

905
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 3: how you prevent more deaths in the future. And the

906
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 3: point that I think Israel is making is this war

907
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 3: was off legislation.

908
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: That's actually not a matter of morals and values or no.

909
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 3: Well, of course, of course the matter of morals and values,

910
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 3: but you can't be Let's put it this way. It's

911
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 3: incredibly reductive to simply say that if you are a

912
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 3: moral person, then you oppose a war, because what that

913
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 3: does it allows immoral people to then use that against

914
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 3: you to destroy your civilization. If your community is attacked

915
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 3: and bad people who don't have the same values as

916
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 3: you decide to kill you, kill your children, rape your wife,

917
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 3: and kill her, are you supposed to say, well, I'm

918
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 3: anti war and so I'm going to sit here and

919
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 3: do nothing.

920
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 4: So isn't that the same if somebody rapes a woman

921
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 4: and impregnates them, shouldn't in that case that person be

922
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:39,280
Speaker 4: allowed to make a choice.

923
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 3: Well, no, The point is that the prevention that this

924
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 3: is why you should minimize civilian casualties. To get back

925
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 3: to the beginning of the conversation, this is why it's

926
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 3: it's independently moral to try as much as possible to

927
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 3: minimize civilian casualties. And when it comes to abortion, the

928
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 3: idea is you can minimize that casualty by just preventing it.

929
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 6: How can you being raped?

930
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 3: Well, I mean that's a different question again.

931
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 6: I let's talk about that because what I don't like.

932
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,359
Speaker 3: Listen, first of all, when we're talking about when we're

933
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 3: talking about rape and abortion, we should note that well

934
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 3: over ninety nine percent of abortions are not undertaken because

935
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 3: of rape. And so if you want to come with

936
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:15,919
Speaker 3: me and ban all abortions except for rape, I'll probably

937
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 3: make that trade for you. Meaning if you want to

938
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 3: ban all abortions, elective abortions, and what I have to

939
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 3: do is give up abortion with regard to rape and incest.

940
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,399
Speaker 3: That is, that is a trade on a pragmatic level

941
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 3: politically that I would make.

942
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 6: Okay, so you're not down on ahu.

943
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 3: Well, it's not that. I mean, I believe that again

944
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,959
Speaker 3: rape and incest. I think is the reason people choose

945
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 3: that argument is because it's the hardest argument to make

946
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 3: emotionally from the pro life side. But I think that

947
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 3: we should note that the vast majority of abortions have

948
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 3: nothing to do with raper incests.

949
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: They have to do with election and abortions was that

950
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 1: you never got the wrong person pregnant.

951
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 3: Jesus, I know my wife four times, thank God.

952
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 1: Oh okay.

953
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 2: I also believe homosexuality and transgender is a mental illness.

954
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 3: Is that no, So what I've said is that gender

955
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 3: identity disorder is a mental illness. I've not said that

956
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 3: about homosexuality homosexuality. And the reason that you can tell

957
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 3: that is because gender identity disorder is making an actual

958
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 3: false claim about the world. You're making a claim that

959
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 3: you are a woman or that you feel like a woman,

960
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 3: which is unverifiable, and so that is making a false

961
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 3: claim about the world. A homosexual person is making the

962
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 3: claim that they are attracted to a person of the

963
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:21,919
Speaker 3: same sex, which is not a false claim about the world.

964
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 3: They are I assume. So the claim that I've made

965
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 3: from a sort of religious perspective with regard to homosexuality

966
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 3: is the same as the claim that I make with

967
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 3: regard to virtually all human behavior, which is that drives

968
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 3: are not behavior, meaning that you know, so people ask

969
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 3: me from a religious perspective, I'm obviously an orthodox stew

970
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 3: It's why I wear the honey hat. Right that from

971
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 3: a religious perspective, what do you make of homosexual activity and.

972
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: Kids? Right?

973
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 3: So, I'm anti same sex marriage, but I'm anti same

974
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 3: sex marriage because I believe that the fundamental basis of

975
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 3: the family is father, mother, child, and when it comes

976
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 3: to the actual thing that society is supposed to incentivize,

977
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 3: it is that family structure. Now, I'm not in favor

978
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 3: of legislation that would punish people for homosexual activity, for example. Right,

979
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 3: that's silly, and the government should be involved in that.

980
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,760
Speaker 3: But saying that you're going to give a government benefits

981
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 3: to people based on quote unquote who they love, it

982
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 3: really isn't about that. It's about your trying to if

983
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 3: the government's to be involved at all, it's about attempting

984
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 3: to incentivize family formative structures. The government has pushed too

985
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 3: far in the other direction. Actually right, I mean this

986
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 3: is one of the big problems of many of the

987
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 3: welfare programs of the sixties, which explicitly you were meant

988
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 3: to benefit people who did not have a father in

989
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 3: the home and led to perverse incentives where people were

990
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 3: not getting married, specifically because the government was offering more

991
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 3: money not to get married.

992
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 4: I want to go back to your book because I

993
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 4: do I think I agree with your argument that NBA

994
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 4: is the driving force behind what you call the scavenger mindset,

995
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 4: like you describe it as an irresistible force that fuels

996
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 4: resentment and entitlement.

997
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 3: Did you expound on it, sure, I mean I think

998
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 3: that again, to go back to all of us, I

999
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 3: think we all have this problem in our lives. We

1000
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 3: see people and we envy those people, and then instead

1001
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 3: of doing something to make ourselves better, we actually make

1002
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 3: ourselves worse in the process, or we attack systems that

1003
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 3: we think are responsible for that and tear down those systems.

1004
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,399
Speaker 3: I use the biblical story of Canaan Abele as sort

1005
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 3: of the key load bearing story for this particular element. Now,

1006
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 3: the story of canon Able, which I think is the

1007
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 3: most elemental human story, is fascinating in the Biblical text

1008
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 3: in Genesis, basically, God, it's actually Kaine's idea to initiate

1009
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 3: sacrifices before God. Right, it's not Able's idea, it's originally

1010
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 3: Kaine's idea. Kine says, let's go sacrifice. He and his

1011
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 3: brother able to go sacrifice God for some unspecified reason

1012
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 3: accept able sacrifice, but not Kaines. And now God then

1013
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 3: gives what would be called in Yiddish musserch mooves. He gives,

1014
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 3: He gives him a He gives Cain a sort of

1015
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 3: pick me up speech, and he says, listen, your sacrifice

1016
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 3: wasn't accepted. You have two choices here right, Sin crouches

1017
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 3: at your door. You can either give into it, or

1018
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 3: you can or you can overcome it. And Caine doesn't listen,

1019
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 3: and he decides that out of envy because his brother

1020
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 3: succeeded and he failed, He's going to kill his brother, right,

1021
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 3: first murder in human history according to the Bible. And

1022
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 3: so the question is what is driving Kine? And what's

1023
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 3: driving Kine is the fact that instead of saying what

1024
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 3: could I do better? He kills his brother. This is

1025
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 3: why if you look at the ten commandments. For example,

1026
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 3: all of the ten commandments have to do with behavior.

1027
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,879
Speaker 3: There's only one that really has to There's only one

1028
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 3: that bars actual emotion. It's the tenth Commandment, and it

1029
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 3: says you're not allowed to envy your neighbor's property. Right,

1030
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 3: you can't envy your neighbor's wife is property. There's a

1031
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 3: difference between saying, by the way, you know, my neighbor

1032
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 3: has a really great car, I wish I could get

1033
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 3: a car like that. That's not true envy. True envy

1034
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 3: is my neighbor has that car. I wish I had

1035
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 3: that car. That car, I don't even know how he

1036
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 3: got that car. Whatever system provided him that car, that's

1037
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 3: a bad system because he has that car and I

1038
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 3: don't have that car. Nothing is more destructive than this.

1039
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 3: It is truly horrifyingly destructive on a personal level and

1040
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 3: on a societal level. Again, this is and you can

1041
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,879
Speaker 3: carry it over into politics. This is the difference between saying,

1042
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 3: how do we construct systems or change systems so that

1043
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 3: more poor people can get ahead, as opposed to there's

1044
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 3: a billionaire. That billionaire is inherently bad and evil must

1045
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 3: have stolen from the poor person in ord to become

1046
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 3: a billionaire, which is fundamentally untrue. Just on an economic level,

1047
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 3: it is not true. I'm all for any attempts to

1048
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 3: make poor people richer. But this is why when people

1049
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,919
Speaker 3: talk about wealth inequality or income inequality, there's a fundamental

1050
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 3: level of dishonesty there. For people who who really understand

1051
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 3: the economics, the question is not whether there is inequality.

1052
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 3: The question is how do we make poor people richer.

1053
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:25,879
Speaker 3: It shouldn't be about how do we make rich people poor?

1054
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 3: It should be about how do we make poor people richer?

1055
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 3: I agree so, and I think this is a major

1056
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 3: problem in our politics. And you see it again. It

1057
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 3: used to be, I think, largely relegated to it to

1058
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 3: certain parts of the Democratic Party. I think you're seeing

1059
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 3: it swivel into the popular side of the Republican Party too,

1060
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 3: the sort of grievance based politics.

1061
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 4: But I think one of those ways to make poor

1062
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 4: people richer is by making the rich people pay their

1063
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 4: fast sharing taxes, because those tax dollars are supposed to

1064
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 4: go to, you know, resources that will help those poor people.

1065
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: You know, get on their feet.

1066
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 3: Right. So I think that that is like the best

1067
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 3: case argument, that that's like the Steelman argument. I don't

1068
00:43:57,840 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 3: agree with that on an economic level because I don't

1069
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:00,879
Speaker 3: think that it's a fat active I think we've had

1070
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 3: twenty two trillion dollars in redistributive programs in America and

1071
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 3: it hasn't actually radically increased the wealth level of people

1072
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 3: at the bottom level of American society.

1073
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:11,720
Speaker 1: Maybe it's not going to the right program.

1074
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, we can keep trying that, or what

1075
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 3: we could do theoretically is recognized that one of the

1076
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 3: reasons that America is uniquely awesome is because of innovation,

1077
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 3: risk taking, investment, and some of the some of the

1078
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 3: things that that I think politicians say about, you know,

1079
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 3: the problems that we have economically are just not true.

1080
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 3: And what I mean by this is that this idea

1081
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,439
Speaker 3: that you're living worse than your parents, that's not true.

1082
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 3: You're not living worse than your parents. You're not you

1083
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 3: have better technology, you're living in an air conditioned home, You're

1084
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 3: you're sitting in an air conditioned office. Like there's this

1085
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 3: and you see it on the right alice the right

1086
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 3: they'll be like, you know, I wish it were nineteen

1087
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 3: fifty five and I was working in a Ford factory.

1088
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 3: That hell, you do you want to stand there riveting

1089
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 3: all day in a Ford factory. You sit by a computer,

1090
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:51,879
Speaker 3: and your worst physical risk is sciatica.

1091
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: I could determine where my tax dollars go. Oh hell,

1092
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 1: that's what I vel independence.

1093
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 4: I would love to say, Hey, my tagle, you would

1094
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 4: have to, you know, send a certain amount of your

1095
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 4: money to a certain thing every year.

1096
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:06,879
Speaker 1: I want to determine where my money.

1097
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 3: I mean, I totally agree with this, and I think

1098
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 3: that this is one of the reasons why I think

1099
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 3: that the federalization, the nationalization of so much of our

1100
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 3: politics is really really bad. It is much easier to

1101
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 3: spot your money in your local community than it is

1102
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 3: to spot your money when you send it to the

1103
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 3: faraway federal government, and then it just kind of gets

1104
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 3: mixed up in a giant grab bag of cash, and

1105
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 3: everybody just dives in like Scrooge McDuck and grabs as

1106
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:26,959
Speaker 3: much of the cash as they can and then run away.

1107
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 3: I'm very much in favor of devolution of authority to

1108
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 3: the most local level. I think this is where people

1109
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 3: are the happiest, By the way, and this is actually

1110
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 3: what the founders believed on a governmental structural level is

1111
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 3: that most power should be initiated at the local. It's

1112
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 3: why I said before, I don't think that the Trump

1113
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 3: administration should, without the permission of governors, start policing crime

1114
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 3: using the federal government. Right, that's a local crime issue.

1115
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 3: And so yeah, I think that more authority should devolve

1116
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 3: to the lowest level. And if you don't like where

1117
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 3: you live, you can move. So I live in my

1118
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 3: entire life in California, my entire life, right except for

1119
00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 3: a couple of years at Harvard, my whole life like

1120
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 3: zero to thirty five. And then I didn't like how

1121
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 3: was government, and so I moved and so now I

1122
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 3: live in Florida, and I like it better. And you

1123
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,879
Speaker 3: know what cool. You know that that's what you can't

1124
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 3: just get up in there. So actually, well the I

1125
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 3: mean yes, first of all. First, first of all, yes,

1126
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,720
Speaker 3: I you know, I'm wealthy enough to move for sure. Also,

1127
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 3: one of the things that has actually radically declined in

1128
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 3: the United States, and this actually is a major problem,

1129
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 3: is people moving generally. It is easier to move now

1130
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 3: than it was fifty years ago, Right, it is easier.

1131
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 3: I mean you can first of all, you can get

1132
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 3: things cheaper, you can move things across the country with

1133
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 3: better modes of transportation. The population movement in the country

1134
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 3: has radically slowed, and so people would rather pay an

1135
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 3: enormous amount of money for a tiny apartment in New

1136
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 3: York City than even think about moving outside in New

1137
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 3: York City to go to a place where there might

1138
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 3: be more jobs. And that that actually is a problem.

1139
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 3: And I think that that has been propped up by

1140
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 3: government regulation, government spending, the belief that it's about, you know,

1141
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 3: the government can make your situation more livable, as opposed

1142
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 3: to the actual history of America was an enormous amount

1143
00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 3: of population movement, and I don't I don't think that's

1144
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 3: necessar by the way you are seeing that happen. In

1145
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 3: twenty twenty, you saw a massive population movement, particularly to

1146
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 3: the South, to areas that are easier to live, and

1147
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 3: those are those are financial decisions. It's not just for me.

1148
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 3: I mean, they're members of my extended family who have

1149
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 3: moved down to Florida who don't earn nearly the kind

1150
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 3: of money that I do, because it is actually a lot cheaper,

1151
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 3: for example, to live in Florida than it is to

1152
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 3: live in New Jersey.

1153
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 4: Don't you I wanna go back to the envy thing,

1154
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 4: and you touched on it a little bit, But don't

1155
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 4: you think societal structures like economic inequality can lead to envy?

1156
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: Like if you can eat.

1157
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 4: And I can't, Yes, I'm gonna be envious at that.

1158
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 4: If you have a house and I don't. I'm homeless, Yes,

1159
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be envious at that. So can't you see

1160
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 4: what that can cause? Envy and political discontent?

1161
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,399
Speaker 3: So, I mean, envy is a normal human thing, right,

1162
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 3: we all feel it. The question is whether that is justified,

1163
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 3: and not only whether it's justified, but whether the desire

1164
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 3: to turn that into a destruction of the system is justified.

1165
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 3: So again, it's normal for every every person feels this.

1166
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 3: If you can be a very rich person, if you

1167
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 3: live next to Bill Gates, you're gonna be envious to

1168
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 3: Bill Gates. Right, Bill Gates has a bigger house than you.

1169
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 3: Does that mean that the systems are broken? Or does

1170
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 3: it mean maybe you should, you know, change the way

1171
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,399
Speaker 3: you're doing things? And I think that that's why I say,

1172
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 3: in the first instance, not always, but in the first instance,

1173
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:10,839
Speaker 3: you should say what can I do to change my life?

1174
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 3: If that due next door has a really nice car,

1175
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 3: maybe I should try to figure out how he got

1176
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 3: that car, Like how did he succeed?

1177
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: Right?

1178
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 3: The way that you make your life better typically is

1179
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 3: you find successful people, and then you try to emulate

1180
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 3: the behavior of successful people. This is particularly true in

1181
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 3: the financial sphere. Right, how do they make their investments?

1182
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 3: Are they blowing their money? How did they get into business?

1183
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 3: By the way, every successful billionaire that I know is

1184
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 3: a person who had multiple failed businesses before they actually succeeded. Like,

1185
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 3: risk taking is an actual skill you have to cultivate.

1186
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: And I see, I don't like that.

1187
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, my biggest problem is this, Right, you said you

1188
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 2: grew up one house, you had one bathroom.

1189
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 3: I'd say like lower to metal middle class. Yeah, correct.

1190
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 2: So I know a lot of people who grew up

1191
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 2: and they struggled, right, and they tried and things didn't work,

1192
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 2: They didn't go party, They tried.

1193
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 3: And then it caught and they did well. Right, And I.

1194
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 2: Feel like sometimes we what's the word you penalize somebody

1195
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 2: for doing well? I tax it are more than somebody

1196
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 2: who has it. But they gave up a lot, they

1197
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 2: gave up their life, they gave up their party life,

1198
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 2: they gave going out. And I don't like the fact

1199
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 2: that you we don't sometimes make poor people try to

1200
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 2: be richer opposed to making rich people being poorer. But

1201
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 2: what I don't like is when you have a company,

1202
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 2: let's say whatever company it may be in New York,

1203
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 2: and you say, you know what, you don't have to

1204
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 2: pay taxes because we don't want you to leave. That's

1205
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 2: a smack in the face. When a company brings in

1206
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 2: two three billion dollars and never have to pay a

1207
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 2: tax at all.

1208
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 3: Well, again, I think the better thing for the for

1209
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 3: the City of New York to do, it'd be a

1210
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 3: lower taxes for everybody. I also do not like using

1211
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:34,439
Speaker 3: the winners and the losers and certain people get tax

1212
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 3: benefits or subsidies. I think that's stupid. But I've been

1213
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 3: talking about I'm talking about the idea.

1214
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:43,760
Speaker 1: You're talking that affordability to Bill.

1215
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 3: I mean, I think the way that you actually achieve

1216
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 3: affordability is to lower the regulations and lower the taxes

1217
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 3: in New York City. It is very difficult to live

1218
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 3: in New York City. I mean, I have relatives who

1219
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 3: used to live in New Jersey. I have relatives whore

1220
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 3: currently living in LA. So I'll use that as an

1221
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 3: analogy because I know the policy in LA better I

1222
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 3: live there. The policy in LA is brutal. I mean,

1223
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 3: you can actually earn a really solid living in Los

1224
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 3: Angeles and still find it very, very difficult to pay

1225
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 3: your bills because of things like rent control preventing development,

1226
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:10,800
Speaker 3: or regulations that prevent you from building new buildings, or

1227
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 3: at hack structures that make you pay a lot of money,

1228
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:14,839
Speaker 3: or licensing structures that make you have to go get

1229
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 3: a license to cut hair. Right like, all this kind

1230
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 3: of stuff is is really really stupid. And again my

1231
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 3: problem with Mom Donnie. I have many problems with Zormamdanni,

1232
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 3: but my problem with Mamdanni is not the fundamental sort

1233
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 3: of critique that it's unaffordable to live in New York.

1234
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 3: I mean, duh, great ment dah. I mean, but the

1235
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:33,240
Speaker 3: question is what is now your solution? And his solution

1236
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,800
Speaker 3: seems to be that the systems of capitalism are fundamentally broken,

1237
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 3: and I don't think that's right. I don't think that

1238
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 3: the systems of capitalism are fundamentally broken. I don't think

1239
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 3: he believes that the systems of capitalism are fundamentally broken.

1240
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:44,879
Speaker 3: He's lived a life that is one of the most

1241
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,919
Speaker 3: privileged lives I have ever heard of of any American ever.

1242
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 3: I mean, the guy has not held a job and

1243
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 3: he's going to be the mayor of New York at

1244
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,240
Speaker 3: the age of thirty three after being a failed rapper.

1245
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 3: I'm a more successful rapper, for God's sake than Zormamdannie

1246
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 3: was yeah record, I know, I know, and let me

1247
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 3: tell you it's a banger. Nick, dude, I don't even know.

1248
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 3: I don't know, I mean retweeted, yeah, yeah, Nike did

1249
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 3: retweet that, and then I took her side in a

1250
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 3: fight with Cardie B and.

1251
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 4: President Trump had the same message about affordability. He literally

1252
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 4: said he won the election based off one word groceries.

1253
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: What was his solution? The economy hasn't gotten better.

1254
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:24,359
Speaker 3: So I totally agree with this. Actually so I again,

1255
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,360
Speaker 3: I think that the critique goes a long way in politics,

1256
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 3: And this goes back to my original point about politicians.

1257
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 3: Anyone can make the critique. Are you look at the

1258
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 3: problems in your life? It's super easy. The critique is

1259
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:36,879
Speaker 3: super easy. Things are too yeah, no shit, Like okay, now,

1260
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 3: what are you going to do? About it, and I

1261
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,240
Speaker 3: think that this is why, for example, I've opposed President

1262
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 3: Trum's tariff for shame. I don't think the tariffs are good.

1263
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 3: I think they're bad public policy. I think that that

1264
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,759
Speaker 3: the you know, free trade has made things cheaper and

1265
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 3: yes better and competition is good and so so you know, again,

1266
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 3: I think that when it comes to diagnosing the problems, listen,

1267
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 3: I think that President Trump, like any other president, is

1268
00:51:58,080 --> 00:51:59,919
Speaker 3: a mixed bag. I think more good than bad, which

1269
00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 3: is why I campaign for him. But I'm not going

1270
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 3: to pretend that every public policy that he does is

1271
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:06,879
Speaker 3: something that I agree with because it's just not true.

1272
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 3: And I've talked about this on my show. I try

1273
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 3: to be honest with my audience when I think that

1274
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 3: the president is doing things that I disagree with.

1275
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 4: You know, you know, we've seen going back to the

1276
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 4: envy think. I think that's one of the most fascinating

1277
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:19,959
Speaker 4: things about this book. We've seen conservatives weaponize that envy

1278
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 4: and political discontent by saying things.

1279
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 1: Like, you know, immigrants are the reason you don't have

1280
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:25,320
Speaker 1: a job.

1281
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 4: Or DEI is causing unqualified people to get jobs.

1282
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 1: What do you say to that?

1283
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 3: So I think that those are sort of two separate issues.

1284
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,839
Speaker 3: So on the immigration front, I think that there is

1285
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:38,359
Speaker 3: a problem obviously of illegal immigration. I think it's less

1286
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 3: economic than it is cultural, meaning that if you're bringing

1287
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 3: people in and then they are drawing more out of

1288
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 3: the system than they're putting into the system, that's a

1289
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 3: major economic problem. And I do think that if you

1290
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 3: come to the United States that you should obviously integrate

1291
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 3: into the economic systems of the United States, into the

1292
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 3: generalized love of declaration of Independence and constitution of the

1293
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 3: United States. You should love the country. I think that

1294
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 3: these are all basic things that you should do. That

1295
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 3: the problem of immigration leaving a completely open border is

1296
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 3: one of sovereignty. It does have economic downstream effect and

1297
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 3: all the rest. But I think that the sort of

1298
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 3: anti immigration general, I mean even legal immigration arguments that

1299
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 3: are made that, oh my gosh, if we bring in

1300
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 3: highly qualified immigrants that are putting people out of jobs,

1301
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 3: I think that's just fundamentally untrue on an economic level. Typically, again,

1302
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 3: innovation makes the pie bigger. It's why you live better

1303
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 3: than your parents and grandparents do. And if you just

1304
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 3: think of the people in America who have hired an

1305
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 3: awful lot of people and created enormous numbers of jobs.

1306
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 3: Many of those people were not born in the United States. Right,

1307
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 3: the right's favorite you know, Elon, Right, Elon is an

1308
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 3: immigrant to the United States. Right the people under peach

1309
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 3: eye over at Google. Right, he is an immigrant to

1310
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 3: the United States. So I'm not anti legal immigration. I

1311
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:47,839
Speaker 3: think some of the arguments that are made on this

1312
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 3: side of the popular style are wrong. When it comes

1313
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 3: to DEI. DEI is a bit of a different thing

1314
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:56,399
Speaker 3: because DEI is the is the argument essentially that there

1315
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,919
Speaker 3: should be a lower standard applied to certain people because

1316
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 3: of historic Green says, and that is a net loser.

1317
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 3: And the reason that is a net loser is because

1318
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 3: what you're essentially doing. Number one is there are plenty

1319
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 3: I think of qualified black people who don't need the

1320
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:14,800
Speaker 3: hand up in order to succeed in their particular industries.

1321
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,359
Speaker 3: I don't think they need the extra two hundred points

1322
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 3: on the SAT in order to get into into Harvard.

1323
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 3: So that's number one. Number two.

1324
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 4: I don't want to say I've never been the biggest

1325
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 4: fan of DEI, but I do feel like when things

1326
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,479
Speaker 4: have been done systemically to a people to keep them down,

1327
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 4: some things have to be done systemically to actually lift

1328
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 4: them up. So when you look at all of the

1329
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 4: different you know, legislation that has been passed that is

1330
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 4: actually oppressed black people.

1331
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 1: In that case, I don't have a problem with the I.

1332
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 3: So I think in the immediate reparations just about black people, no, No,

1333
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,920
Speaker 3: for sure is not the the sort of the problem

1334
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 3: with DEI is that it is in fact a zero

1335
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 3: some game. Only one person is going to get that job,

1336
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:51,399
Speaker 3: and so the question is is the person who gets

1337
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 3: that job the best qualified for that job or is

1338
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 3: that a person who's less qualified for the job and

1339
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 3: is and is going to underperform in the job compared

1340
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,439
Speaker 3: to what what otherwise would have been. If you want

1341
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 3: to maximize the pie for everybody, what you want is

1342
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:06,399
Speaker 3: a meritocracy where the best people at any job get ahead. Now,

1343
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 3: if you're talking about reparations for immediate past wrongs, I

1344
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:11,840
Speaker 3: think it's a much easier conversation. So I think that

1345
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 3: if you're in nineteen sixty eight, nineteen seventy and you're

1346
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 3: talking about what can we do to rectify the problems

1347
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:18,879
Speaker 3: of Jim Crow and make it right for the people

1348
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 3: who suffer under Jim Crow, I think that's a really

1349
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 3: live and interesting conversation, and I think that it's totally

1350
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:25,800
Speaker 3: worth having. I think that on a sort of public

1351
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 3: policy level, reparative policies don't tend to be nearly as

1352
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 3: effective as people want them to be historically speaking, and

1353
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 3: in what way do people reparations mean? Holocaust reparations, for example,

1354
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 3: from Germany. So I think, first of all, there was

1355
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,880
Speaker 3: like a gigantic fight actually in Israel over whether Holocaust

1356
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 3: survivors should accept reparations from Germany, because the idea was

1357
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 3: that that it's allowing them to expiate their sins of

1358
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 3: the past, and they shouldn't be allowed to expiate those sins,

1359
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 3: and it's allowing them to buy off the history for

1360
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 3: fifty grand or whatever it is. But that is not

1361
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 3: the reason why Israel has become successful economically, Like just

1362
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 3: on a success level, the reality is that cutting people

1363
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:07,920
Speaker 3: checks rarely makes them more successful from the government. What

1364
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 3: usually makes people more successful is a is a determined

1365
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:17,359
Speaker 3: attempt to become the things that the meritocracy demands of you. Right,

1366
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 3: so there were no long you know, long scale the US.

1367
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,959
Speaker 1: Foreign as Israel has helped financially well.

1368
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:25,880
Speaker 3: I mean the use foreign assistants for Israel actually is

1369
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 3: a bargain for the United States because Israel doesn't need

1370
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 3: the money. I've said this before, Israel, I mean, we'll

1371
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 3: take it. That's fine.

1372
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:33,440
Speaker 1: The Black community gladly.

1373
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 3: That's that's it's like three billion dollars a year. We

1374
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 3: should point out at this point that we spend having

1375
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 3: six billion dollars a year on our military bases in Japan,

1376
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 3: five billion dollars a year on our military basis in Germany.

1377
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 3: We spend an awful lot of money that that helps

1378
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 3: an awful lot of other countries. Israel has to spend

1379
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 3: all of that money, by the way, in the United

1380
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:51,959
Speaker 3: States on military products. So so all of the money

1381
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:53,399
Speaker 3: that we send to it, we actually don't send money

1382
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:55,279
Speaker 3: is where we send military product to Israel that is

1383
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 3: made in the United States, and so it actually is

1384
00:56:57,600 --> 00:56:59,840
Speaker 3: a subsidy to the American defense industry. And there is

1385
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 3: a deal with Israel where Israel does intelligence sharing and

1386
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 3: also develops its own tech and can't disseminate it to

1387
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 3: the world. So, for example, the helmets that are F

1388
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 3: thirty five pilots use, those are rarely developed helmets like that.

1389
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,439
Speaker 3: We can see over the horizon for example. That's because

1390
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 3: the Israel developed technological add ons. So the idea that

1391
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 3: this is sort of like a zero sum the money

1392
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 3: goes out get nothing back, that's actually not that's actually

1393
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 3: not true. You make the argument that foreign aid entirely

1394
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 3: should be zeroed out. I think that that is not

1395
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 3: a particularly useful argument, just because sometimes it's good and

1396
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 3: sometimes it's bad. Like I'm, by the way, in favor

1397
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 3: of assistance to Ukraine to prevent Russia from taking over Ukraine.

1398
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 3: This represents a vanishing portion of our national budget, right

1399
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 3: if you're going to talk about like where the actual

1400
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 3: massive spending is going. But I'd much rather do is

1401
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 3: restructure social security so you can keep more of your

1402
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 3: own money, and you can keep more of your money,

1403
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 3: and I can keep more of my own money because

1404
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 3: I'm young and I'm still earning. I'm not saying you

1405
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 3: should zero it out for people who have already earned

1406
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 3: or who are age fifty five plus in approaching retirement age.

1407
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 3: But if you're thirty years old, the idea that I

1408
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 3: have to pay into a system and I don't see

1409
00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 3: that money again, and when I do see that money,

1410
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 3: it's actually borrowed from China. That seems to me to

1411
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 3: be a really bad thing. And if we're talking about

1412
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 3: the national budget, sixty percent of it is social security, Medicare,

1413
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 3: and medicaid. If you're talking about like that three billion dollars,

1414
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 3: if you took that three billion, it reports about twenty

1415
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 3: percent of the American budget. And it is way more.

1416
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 3: It isn't we spend it's more the debt. Yeah, we

1417
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 3: now spend more on servicing our debt than we do

1418
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 3: on our military budget, which is which is quite a

1419
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 3: scary thing.

1420
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 5: No.

1421
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 1: I thought the military budget was part of the debt.

1422
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 3: It's not so Well, everything's part of the debt. Meaning

1423
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 3: like when we we we pay taxes in our tax

1424
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 3: revenue per year is somewhere between four and five trillion dollars.

1425
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 3: We are spending sixty seven trillion dollars every single year.

1426
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 3: So the rest of that is coming from from bond

1427
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:43,720
Speaker 3: sales essentially, which is borrowing, which is a form of

1428
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 3: long term borrowing.

1429
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:45,920
Speaker 4: I do want to go back to my original question,

1430
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 4: because when you started talking about the you know, geopolitical

1431
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:52,800
Speaker 4: politics of war, what do you say to conservatives who

1432
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 4: weaponize that envy what you call a scavenger.

1433
00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:58,560
Speaker 3: I think it's wrong. I think that's wrong. And this

1434
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 3: is why, this is again why in the book you

1435
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 3: will not find right and left uses the binary got

1436
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 3: right like I Actually, if you go through the whole book,

1437
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 3: I think I use the term left one time in

1438
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 3: the entire book. I think it's with regard to I

1439
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 3: think it's start the French philosopher. But I really do

1440
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 3: not think that this is a purely political binary. I

1441
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 3: think that there are people who disagree with me on policy,

1442
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 3: for our lions, who get up every day and they

1443
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 3: just disagree with me on policy, but they actually want

1444
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 3: to make the world better. They actually want to build

1445
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 3: social fabric, make their lives better, make lives better, people better,

1446
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:29,400
Speaker 3: believe primarily in personal responsibility and duty. And I think

1447
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 3: there are people who sometimes agree with me even more

1448
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 3: on public policy, who have fallen into a sort of

1449
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 3: grievance politics that you can make bank off of. And

1450
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 3: I think that's really ugly. I think it's bad for everybody.

1451
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 4: Before you go, I do want to talk to you

1452
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:42,439
Speaker 4: about one thing you said in your book. You said

1453
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 4: the founding fathers in America's constitutional order, You said that

1454
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 4: they are thelliance right who built systems of freedom and opportunity.

1455
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 4: We talked about the Three Shields compromise then, So everybody

1456
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 4: wasn't free when those things like the Constitution.

1457
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 3: Were percent And so to pretend that the systems were

1458
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 3: not deeply flawed and that we didn't have to fight

1459
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 3: a gigantic civil war that killed hundreds of thousands of

1460
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 3: Americans eighty years afterward would be obviously historically inaccurate. But

1461
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 3: the point is that the systems that they were designing

1462
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 3: provide the framework for that freedom. Or this is the

1463
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 3: argument that Frederick Douglas makes in his speech on July fourth, Right,

1464
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 3: is that July fourth isn't for Black Americans, but it

1465
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 3: should be right, that should be it should be for

1466
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 3: black Americans. That's why that speech is so wonderful is

1467
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 3: because what he's saying is that the promises the Founding

1468
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 3: Fathers made were not fulfilled, which again is the same

1469
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 3: thing that MLK says. Right, is that he's not throwing

1470
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 3: out the systems. He's saying the system is good, but

1471
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 3: it's flawed. That's fixed the system. That is a lion thing. Right,

1472
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 3: So he can say the Founding Fathers were lanes and

1473
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 3: also that people who are fighting. What the Founding Fathers

1474
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 3: did with the three fifths compromise were also lions. I mean,

1475
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 3: to be fair to some of the Founding fathers. The

1476
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 3: reason for the three fifths compromise that some of the

1477
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 3: Founding fathers were very much pro slavery, and many of

1478
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 3: the Founding fathers, like for example, John Adams, were very

1479
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:56,120
Speaker 3: much anti slavery. And the reason for the three fifths

1480
01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 3: compromise is because if there were no three fifths compromise

1481
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 3: in the Constitution, actually the southern slave holding states would

1482
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 3: have been overrepresented. John Adams and others said, if the

1483
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 3: Southern states are going to treat black people as not citizens,

1484
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 3: they shouldn't be They shouldn't be citizens for purposes of

1485
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 3: a portionment or you're going to get overrepresented in Congress.

1486
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 3: That's the historical reason for the three fifths compromise. But

1487
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,280
Speaker 3: again it is again good evidence that yes, slavery was

1488
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:21,760
Speaker 3: accepted at the time, not just in America obviously everywhere

1489
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 3: was still legal in the British Empire. The United States

1490
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 3: abolishes slavery in eighteen sixty three under the Emancipation Proclamation,

1491
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 3: but you know, there are many countries that continue to

1492
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 3: hold slaves today, and so I think the story of America,

1493
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 3: to pretend that it's not flawed is wrong. Also, I

1494
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 3: think that again, as with any binary it's it's too simplistic.

1495
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 3: There are lions who do scavenger like things. They're scavengers

1496
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:44,800
Speaker 3: who do lion like things. I think we're all a

1497
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 3: combination of both those things, which you try to be

1498
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 3: as lion like as possible in our lives and in

1499
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 3: our politics. And we'll stumble, and we'll fall, and we'll fail,

1500
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:52,919
Speaker 3: and we'll fall into envy, and we'll do terrible things

1501
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 3: to one another. But the more that we can act

1502
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 3: like lions as opposed to scavengers, the better we and

1503
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 3: the country will be.

1504
01:01:57,520 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 1: Lorn.

1505
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 5: Had a questions, Yeah, I had completely I mean maybe

1506
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 5: not completely different topic. But Candice Owens, she was here

1507
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 5: when she said that you couldn't fire her from a

1508
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 5: daily wire that was happening on the breakfast Club. So

1509
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 5: and I saw everything that happened after and you guys

1510
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 5: said that you guys were going separate way she says

1511
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:15,439
Speaker 5: she was finally free.

1512
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 6: Did she quit because you told her to quit?

1513
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 3: I really get into this. I mean it said like

1514
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 3: for for legal reasons I will say that that it's

1515
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 3: you know, talking openly about this is kind of a problem,

1516
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 3: you know. I will say that the Candace and I

1517
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 3: have have obviously quite significant political disagreements, and as the

1518
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 3: as the founder of a company that you know is

1519
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 3: dedicated to certain propositions, we have many people who I

1520
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 3: would not hire, and I would not hire Candace Owens today.

1521
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:46,560
Speaker 1: What about free speech?

1522
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 4: And my boy Andrew Schultz, he said that you know you,

1523
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 4: He said, if if you're not about free speech when

1524
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:55,440
Speaker 4: you fired Candas, then you are just a propaganda machine

1525
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 4: for Israel.

1526
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 3: Well, with all respect to Andrew Schultz, that's a dumb

1527
01:02:57,800 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 3: ass thing to say. And the reason that's a dumb

1528
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:03,040
Speaker 3: ass thing to say is because I've noticed the Cannis

1529
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 3: is doing quite well for herself right and so I've

1530
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 3: not called for her to be deplatformed. I've not called

1531
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 3: for her to be prosecuted. I am not under no

1532
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 3: obligation to pay people from my pocketbook who are espousing

1533
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 3: beliefs that I find antithetical to my own. You don't

1534
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 3: have to hire you know, you don't have to hire

1535
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 3: Nick Flent. Since her David Duke to come be a

1536
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 3: host at the breakfast club. That is not a violation

1537
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 3: of free speech.

1538
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 1: That's true.

1539
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:28,200
Speaker 5: There's been the word anti semi has been thrown around

1540
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:29,200
Speaker 5: Canasulans a lot.

1541
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 6: Do you feel like she's anti Semitic?

1542
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 3: I will say that that some of the things that

1543
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 3: she says are would to me certainly fall in that category.

1544
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 3: I try not to use that terminology. And the reason

1545
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 3: I try not to use that terminology is I don't

1546
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:45,400
Speaker 3: think that it's useful. I think that the term has

1547
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:47,080
Speaker 3: been emptied of sort of all of its content in

1548
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 3: the same way that that Americans are now used to

1549
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 3: I think everyone being called racist, and so they stopped

1550
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 3: actually paying attention to racism in many ways, which is

1551
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:57,560
Speaker 3: I think quite bad. I want to avoid doing the

1552
01:03:57,560 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 3: same thing here.

1553
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 4: So what's the salution be when you talk about inequality

1554
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 4: and civic conclusion?

1555
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:03,560
Speaker 1: What's the solution? We've talked about a lot. Are we

1556
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:05,400
Speaker 1: just selling books that we just a podcast?

1557
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 3: So I think that the solution on a personal level

1558
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 3: is go to church, get married before you have babies,

1559
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:12,920
Speaker 3: get a job, find the ways in your life that

1560
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 3: you can make your life personally better, engage with your community,

1561
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 3: find policies that you think are going to be best

1562
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 3: for your community and push for those things on the

1563
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 3: local level predominantly. I think the other thing is that,

1564
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 3: you know, I don't want it to say on self serving,

1565
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 3: but I'm you know, I'm grateful to you for having

1566
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 3: the conversation with people on the other side of the aisle.

1567
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 3: You know, I think that that is really important. I

1568
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 3: think it's going away, and I think the only way

1569
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:34,480
Speaker 3: for you know, there for what I call in the

1570
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:37,080
Speaker 3: book a pride of lines, is for people who believe

1571
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:39,960
Speaker 3: in personal responsibility and duty and basic American ideals to

1572
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 3: get together and hash all this stuff out because we

1573
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 3: do have more in common than you know, we do

1574
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 3: with people who want to destroy the civilization, and I

1575
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 3: think that that that really needs to be strengthened in

1576
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 3: a pretty significant way.

1577
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:51,680
Speaker 4: But you have to actually listen to what a person

1578
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 4: is saying, and I get caught up in all the buzzwords.

1579
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 4: One of my favorite episodes of Bill Maher in recent

1580
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 4: times was when you was on nail with my goub

1581
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:00,240
Speaker 4: with Carseller.

1582
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 1: Yes, I thought that.

1583
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 3: Was but Carry's awesome. Yeah. I mean again, I think

1584
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 3: McCarry is great, and we totally disagree on an enormous

1585
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:09,920
Speaker 3: number of things, but it's a productive conversation.

1586
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:12,919
Speaker 2: All right, Well, pick up the book right now.

1587
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 4: It's outlining The Scavengers, the true story of America and

1588
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:16,560
Speaker 4: her critics.

1589
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:18,960
Speaker 1: Ben Shapiro, that's right. Thank you for joining us this morning.

1590
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 3: And thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.

1591
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 3: It's Ben Shapiro.

1592
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:24,439
Speaker 1: It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Oh no, every day

1593
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:25,080
Speaker 1: a week ago.

1594
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:27,280
Speaker 3: Click your ass up, the Breakfast Club.

1595
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 1: You don't finish what y'all done.