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Speaker 1: I am Yamla, your host, your guide, a teacher for salm,

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Speaker 1: and a soft place to fall for others. And I

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Speaker 1: was a miserable failure in my relationships until I love

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Speaker 1: myself enough to be able to share my love with

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Speaker 1: other people. Welcome to the r Spot, a production of

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Speaker 1: Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. My guest today is

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Speaker 1: a native of Jersey City. Grammy nominated author artist Kevin Powell.

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Speaker 1: Kevin is a hip hop activist, meaning he understands, teachers

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Speaker 1: and promotes the depth and value of hip hop culture,

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Speaker 1: and that makes him a cultural activist. He's also a

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Speaker 1: television and personality of writer an author. I first became

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Speaker 1: aware of Kevin when I was still a resident of

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Speaker 1: the Nation of Brooklyn. I think he was in college

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Speaker 1: back then, but he wrote for the Black American newspaper,

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Speaker 1: and he covered the story about the killing of Michael

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Speaker 1: Griffin and Howard Beasts Howard Beach Queen's which was a

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Speaker 1: huge story back then, akin to the Michael Brown story

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Speaker 1: in Ferguson, except that Michael Griffin was killed by citizens,

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Speaker 1: not by police. Kevin is the author of fourteen books,

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Speaker 1: including My Favorite, The Education of Kevin Powell, A Boy's

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Speaker 1: Journey into Manhood and my second favorite, which recently came out.

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Speaker 1: Kevin also served for many years as a writer for

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite magazines, Vibe Magazine, which was launched

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Speaker 1: way back in the day in the nineties with the

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Speaker 1: Blessing and the Guy guidance of Elder Statesman Quincy Jones.

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Speaker 1: Now as a recent contribution to African Voices magazine, also

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Speaker 1: from the Nation of Brooklyn. Celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of

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Speaker 1: hip hop, Kevin wrote an article that really is a

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Speaker 1: love story and a historical treatise about hip hop. I'm

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Speaker 1: not telling you this to impress you or to establish

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Speaker 1: that Kevin is somebody special. I want you to understand

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Speaker 1: that he has a long term commitment and history to

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Speaker 1: the evolution of people and humanity based on the culture

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Speaker 1: and contribution of people of color. However, He's not stuck

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Speaker 1: in just people of color because Eve Ensler, the author

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Speaker 1: of the Vagina Monologues, is one of his mentors, which

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Speaker 1: Kevin speaks to in his album Grocery Shopping with My Mother.

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Speaker 1: I love this man. I love him for his heart,

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Speaker 1: for his commitment, for his voice. His latest offering to

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Speaker 1: the world. Grocery shopping with my mother sent chills through

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Speaker 1: my body. I didn't know if I should weep or

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Speaker 1: do the Hallelujah dance. If you are wondering who you

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Speaker 1: are or how to be as a mother, as a son,

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Speaker 1: as a person living in the twenty first century. So

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Speaker 1: it is my sheer, delight and honor to welcome this incredible,

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Speaker 1: incredible activist and author and son as a mother. It

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Speaker 1: is my honor to witness or his unfolding and to

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Speaker 1: welcome him to the r spot. I want to start

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Speaker 1: with this. I want you to hear this. Dear God, please.

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Speaker 2: Do not take my mother from me anytime soon. I

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Speaker 2: am not ready. God, I do not know.

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Speaker 1: What I would be without her.

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Speaker 2: She has been my mother and my father. So she

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Speaker 2: pushed and pulled me through her earth the way a

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Speaker 2: jagged little pill shoves its way around the mouth of history.

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Speaker 2: I love my mother like I love breathing air, even

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Speaker 2: when she bruises me with her words, with her rage.

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Speaker 1: God, Mama has forever bruised.

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Speaker 2: Me with her words, with her rage.

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Speaker 1: And that was an offering from grocery shopping with my mother.

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Speaker 1: All right, our spot has joined me and welcoming Kevin Powell. Hi, Kevin,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the art spot.

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Speaker 2: First of all, thank you so much, and I'm just

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Speaker 2: humbled and grateful for everything you said. And you took

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Speaker 2: me back when you mentioned the Michael Griffith peace and

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Speaker 2: the Black American way back in the day. I actually

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Speaker 2: was in college. That was my first check. I think

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Speaker 2: I got twenty dollars for that article back in the

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Speaker 2: day as a writer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: I you know, I just want to say thank you

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Speaker 2: for you and all that you've done. You know, it's interesting.

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Speaker 2: I just just thank you. I just need to say

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Speaker 2: thank you. You know, we both have lost some folks

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Speaker 2: in the last couple of years, and I don't take

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Speaker 2: for granted being here and just thank you for all

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Speaker 2: you've given to our communities. I just need to say

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Speaker 2: that to you publicly. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: You know. I lost my daughter this year. You sent

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Speaker 1: me that lovely, lovely text and email. And in my

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Speaker 1: healing process, one of the things that I was doing

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Speaker 1: was just praying because I just I had to keep

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Speaker 1: my mind and in my prayer one day Spirit said

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Speaker 1: to me, or I heard the guidance. You know, I

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Speaker 1: don't like to say Spirit said to me because then

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Speaker 1: people think I'm crazy. I hear voices, so I just

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Speaker 1: said I was guided and it said in twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 1: you're going to do a lot of work with men,

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Speaker 1: and I said, okay. So when I heard about grocery

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Speaker 1: shopping with my mother, and you know, we've known each

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Speaker 1: other forever. I remember it was in two thousand and one,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and one, Kevin, My daughter Jamia was still

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Speaker 1: alive when you and I set up in the Brooklyn

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Speaker 1: Church and we did an audience of men. Do you

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Speaker 1: remember that, God, Yes, we must have had about two

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Speaker 1: hundred men in that church and that was It had

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Speaker 1: to be two thousand and one because Jamia died in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and three. So I know that she was

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Speaker 1: still alive because she was there. So we've been connected

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Speaker 1: for a long time. I've watched you evolve.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: This for me is so powerful, grocery shopping with my

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Speaker 1: mother because that relationship between the mother and the son

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Speaker 1: is it's a challenging relationship, but it's a blessed relationship.

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Speaker 1: And I always tell women when I speak to them

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Speaker 1: and they're going through breakdown with their son, remember Mama,

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Speaker 1: you are raising somebody's husband and somebody's father, Okay, And

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Speaker 1: I also believe that a man is who is mother

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Speaker 1: makes him. And so in this album, you talk about

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Speaker 1: your mother, you talk about your father, but the beauty

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Speaker 1: is you also talk about all that you learned and

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Speaker 1: gathered and put together even in spite of or because

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Speaker 1: of your relationship with your mother.

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Speaker 2: Wow. I you know if I can say this because

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Speaker 2: I have to pay homage always to our ancestors. I

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Speaker 2: listened to a lot of Nina Simone, Stevie Wonder, Marvin

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Speaker 2: Gay and putting that together, and obviously people like Nikki

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Speaker 2: Giovanni and the Last Poets and you know, Sonya Sanchez

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Speaker 2: and Varaka Mary Baraka and he rest in peace as well.

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Speaker 2: But I just wanted to do something that was in

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Speaker 2: the tradition of who we are as poets, as artists.

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Speaker 2: And I just love music and I'm a house music head.

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Speaker 2: I'm a dance head. I actually grew up. I was

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Speaker 2: dancing hard when I was younger, and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: the first track to be a party track, and I

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Speaker 2: wanted to be in the spirit of bringing community together

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Speaker 2: as you do, and that's where it came from. But

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Speaker 2: you know, It's just I wanted to I wanted to

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Speaker 2: take people on a journey musically because I just I

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Speaker 2: listened to all kinds of stuff. I'm definitely a hip

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Speaker 2: hophead for life. That's never going to change. But I've

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Speaker 2: been blessed to be exposed to classical music, to jazz,

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Speaker 2: to African rhythms to arrange this stuff, reggae. I'm a

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Speaker 2: big fan of reggae, big big fan of Caribbean music,

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Speaker 2: and so it's all there, and I just I'm still

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Speaker 2: in shock if I can say this. You know, we

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Speaker 2: we I got to shout out Tanisha Hill, got to

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Speaker 2: shout out black women because black women hold it down.

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Speaker 2: This album will not exist without tiny Sha Hill, who's

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Speaker 2: an amazing singer, songwriter, vocal arranger. But you know, she

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Speaker 2: and I started talking about I said, you need to

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Speaker 2: be the producer with me on this album, so there'd

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Speaker 2: be no Grammy nominations as much her Grammy nomination as

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Speaker 2: mine because she we worked together for eight months in

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Speaker 2: the studio putting this thing together through all kinds of

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Speaker 2: stuff happening this year, you know what I'm saying. So

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Speaker 2: I just got to acknowledge that that's important to.

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Speaker 1: Me to say that, well, you know, I'm a music

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Speaker 1: fanatic too, and all of those things. And it's important

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Speaker 1: because I think some of the youngins today they don't

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Speaker 1: know amer they don't know Nicki, they don't know some

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Speaker 1: of the things that you grew up on some of

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Speaker 1: my peers, who you know, I'm an elder now, I

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Speaker 1: can't believe it, but you know, if it wasn't for

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Speaker 1: Nicki and Amri and Hockey Matabooty and so many people

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Speaker 1: that some of the youngins don't know. So for you

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Speaker 1: to be influenced by them and bring it into the

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Speaker 1: twenty first century with the hip hop vibe, that's how

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Speaker 1: you do that. So let me ask you this question.

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Speaker 1: Why grocery shopping with my mother? Why that?

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Speaker 2: Well five years ago, so my mom got sick, as

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Speaker 2: I talk about in the title poem song on the album.

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Speaker 2: And I'm an only child. I was raised by my mother.

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Speaker 2: I mean, she had me young, and you know what

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Speaker 2: I'm saying, And I grew up on welfare, foods, Sam's government,

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Speaker 2: She's poverty. I wouldn't wish on anybody. My mama had

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Speaker 2: migrated from the South, from South Carolina up to Jersey

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Speaker 2: City and she got sick, and she said she needed

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Speaker 2: help going to the grocery store. That's how it started, Ayana.

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Speaker 2: I had no intention of writing a poetry book, which

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Speaker 2: came out last December with that title. No, we're doing

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Speaker 2: an album. What I was doing was simply like walking

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Speaker 2: behind my mother, helping her pick out stuff because she

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Speaker 2: insisted on going to the grocery store herself. I said, mine,

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Speaker 2: you know we can have grocery deliver. Oh no, I

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Speaker 2: ain't gonna do that. She didn't. My mother just she

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Speaker 2: got a cell phone, she got a flip phone. She

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Speaker 2: got a flip phone. But there's no texting, there's no

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Speaker 2: online banking, nothing. So she's like, I gotta go to

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Speaker 2: the grocery store. So I had to take her to

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Speaker 2: the grocery store every week for about a year or so,

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Speaker 2: crying behind her, trying to get her to change her diet.

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Speaker 2: You know, she would curse me out in that mama

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Speaker 2: kind of way. Boy, you're trying to I raise you.

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Speaker 2: You know how it is with our folks. I raised you.

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Speaker 2: I'm older than you. I was here before you were here.

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Speaker 2: I was like, Mom, but you can't, you can't get

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Speaker 2: all that she oh for the cookies, you go for

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Speaker 2: the ice cirl like, okay, mom, And you know, I

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Speaker 2: started posting on social media, just doing it. This is

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Speaker 2: what we do. I just said, you know, I'm out

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Speaker 2: here at grocery stop my mother. I had no idea

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Speaker 2: black folks, lat next folks, white folks, Indigenous folks, Asian folks,

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Speaker 2: people of all different identities saying that's me, my mother

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Speaker 2: saying black women especially saying you know, that's my mother,

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Speaker 2: or that's me with my son or my daughter. People

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Speaker 2: saying to me they had lost their mothers and that,

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Speaker 2: you know, thank thank you for what you're doing. And

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Speaker 2: it blew my mind, and out of it that came

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Speaker 2: this long poem. And then I, you know, my wife

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Speaker 2: stuck the photo that's the cover of the album and

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Speaker 2: the book when we were at literally a grocery store

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Speaker 2: and it was still you know, we were still wearing

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Speaker 2: masks most of the time, and that how that's how

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Speaker 2: we got the cover of My wife's a photographer, and

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Speaker 2: it's just but it's it's it's and it's funny. When

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Speaker 2: I showed my mother the book, she said, who's that

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Speaker 2: want to cover with you? I said, man, that's you.

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Speaker 2: But I wanted to write. It's something, you know. I

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Speaker 2: thought a lot about Tupac Chakor's Dear Mama, rest in peace. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't realize you were born on set Timber

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Speaker 2: thirteenth or day to pop past. I didn't realize that. Wow,

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Speaker 2: that blows my mind just to think about that. And

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Speaker 2: I thought about all the songs we've had about mamas

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Speaker 2: and black mothers through the years. You know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 2: and you know, and also the dear God part comes

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Speaker 2: from the color purple. To be quite honest about it,

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Speaker 2: I was always affected by how Seali would say Dear

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Speaker 2: God in the book and you would hear her voice

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Speaker 2: in the movie version, because my mother's very spiritual. I

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Speaker 2: was raised up in the church. I've been Christian, I've

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Speaker 2: been Muslim, I've been a few things at Yalla Vanzane.

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Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, But what it always comes

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Speaker 2: back to is that spiritual piece. And so I just

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Speaker 2: I said, I wanted to write something that reflected the

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Speaker 2: kind of black churches that we went to in New

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Speaker 2: York and New Jersey when I was growing up, where

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Speaker 2: my mother was constantly calling on God. Because I was

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Speaker 2: calling God honestly with that poem, grocery shop with my mother,

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Speaker 2: Like I I she's the only constant in my life.

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Speaker 2: I was born the only Wow. Yeah, I only knew

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Speaker 2: my father. I alays saw my father two or three

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Speaker 2: times until I was eight years old. Then he was gone.

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Speaker 2: The next time I saw my father was when he

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Speaker 2: was in a gravesite in South Carolina when I found

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Speaker 2: them years later with the help of a wonderful sister genealogist.

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Speaker 2: But other than that, it's my mama, It's my mama.

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Speaker 2: It's my mama. And that's the poem is a plea

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Speaker 2: to God, you know, to give me more time, you know.

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Speaker 2: And my mom is you know, she comes from the

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Speaker 2: old world, as we say, you know, whether your family's

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Speaker 2: from the South or the West Indies. You know what

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Speaker 2: I'm saying. It's like they have their ways, They're rooted

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Speaker 2: in it, you know. So it's been a complicated relationship.

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Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, I'm clear that

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Speaker 2: I would not have sixteen books the life that I've

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Speaker 2: had my mama. I mean, my mother has an eighth

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Speaker 2: grade education in Yalla van Zane. She took me to

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Speaker 2: the library when I was eight years old. We didn't

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Speaker 2: have many books in the house. We had a Bible.

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Speaker 2: That was it. She didn't know that, you know, she

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Speaker 2: didn't know. She just was like, I got to make

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Speaker 2: sure he gets an education. When I was three years old,

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Speaker 2: three or four years old, she was telling me I

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Speaker 2: was going to go to college. The only time my

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Speaker 2: mother ever set foot on college campus is when she

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Speaker 2: dropped me off at Rutg Universe I was eighteen years old,

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Speaker 2: because my cousins had a car to drive us there

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Speaker 2: and Central New Jersey. She had never been on a

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Speaker 2: cough campus, you know. But this is someone, This is

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Speaker 2: the power of black women. This is the power of

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Speaker 2: black mothers, this remarkable vision against all odds, coming through slavery, colonization, segregation,

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Speaker 2: all the craziness that y'all have had to deal with,

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Speaker 2: and then having to raise this child by herself. And

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Speaker 2: I was definitely a boy that gave her a lot

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Speaker 2: of problems. But you know, I can see my mother

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Speaker 2: all in me. The work ethic comes from her getting

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Speaker 2: up early every morning, like there's still like I'm around

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Speaker 2: roosters and chickens down south, you know, is a part

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Speaker 2: of where I come from, you know, And I just

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Speaker 2: you know, I would like her to be here as long.

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Speaker 2: She's gotten better, thank god, you know, but she still

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Speaker 2: walks slowly, and she's still you know, insisting in doing

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Speaker 2: things her way. And I've suggested yoga to her, and

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Speaker 2: you know, Ma, there ways to deal with all.

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Speaker 1: Yoga.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I was like yoga. No, oh no that

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Speaker 2: you know, it's funny, you know, it's deep. I have

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Speaker 2: referenced you probably a thousand times. I've said to so

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Speaker 2: many people, people like my mom and them did not

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Speaker 2: have an a Yalla van zandt or you know folks

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Speaker 2: growing up, they didn't have y'all, you know, and so

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Speaker 2: they now when you try to introduce this, they're like, no,

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Speaker 2: I'm good, I just need the Lord, you know what

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Speaker 2: I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's it. We'll talk more about it when

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Speaker 1: we come back. Welcome back to the r spot. Let's

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Speaker 1: pick up where we left off. After that beautiful testimony

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Speaker 1: to your mother, she bruises me with her words and

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Speaker 1: with her rage. I acknowledge the ways that I bruised

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Speaker 1: my son more with my words than with the rage.

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Speaker 2: But the words.

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Speaker 1: Probably came from rage. Talk to me as a son,

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Speaker 1: because I've got some mothers I want to bring on,

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Speaker 1: but talk to me as a son, Hey, how did

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Speaker 1: you recog nis you were bruised? And then what did

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Speaker 1: you do about it?

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Speaker 2: I recognize it as a child. I mean, listen, my

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Speaker 2: mother is a beautiful, dark skinned black woman. And all

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Speaker 2: black is beautiful. Everybody's beautiful, We're all beautiful. But she,

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Speaker 2: my father was a high yellow Negro what they would

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Speaker 2: call a red black, red, red, red bone, red bone

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Speaker 2: back then. Yeah, and you know, my mother did not

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Speaker 2: have the kind of educational background formerly that you have

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Speaker 2: that I have, where she could understand the history of it,

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Speaker 2: so she spoke from a lot of pain. Sometimes my

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Speaker 2: mother would say to me when I was a child,

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Speaker 2: you know, you're just like your father. And then she

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Speaker 2: would say in the next breath, don't be like your daddy.

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Speaker 2: Now you're eight nine years old. You don't have to

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Speaker 2: process that. And I think what often happens, and I've

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Speaker 2: said this in spaces with black women who have sons,

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Speaker 2: you know, I understand the hurt that you all feel,

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Speaker 2: particularly when black men have been so washed in sexism

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Speaker 2: as men, thinking that we can abuse black women or

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Speaker 2: women period anyway. We feel like and physically verbally, emotional,

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Speaker 2: spiritually everything. And if you you know, and if you

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Speaker 2: don't go to counseling, into therapy, the things, the work

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Speaker 2: that you've been doing, you know, thank you for the

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Speaker 2: work you've been doing to try to help people to heal.

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Speaker 2: There was no healing space for my mother. There's not

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Speaker 2: a healing space for a lot of our black mothers.

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Speaker 2: They just have you all have to just suck it up,

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Speaker 2: which is going all the way back as you know,

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Speaker 2: Yalla Vanzanne. So those plantations, black women had to be everything.

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Speaker 2: Black women had to be everything. And so I was

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Speaker 2: hurt as a boy, not just the physical beatings, but

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Speaker 2: the verbal beatings, the stuff that was set to me.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if I could be honest about it, I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, my mother would call me the names that

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Speaker 2: Fred Sanford would call his son, lamont On Sanford and

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Speaker 2: his son you know what those words were, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 2: and they were hurtful. Here, I am an a student

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Speaker 2: because my mama demanded excellence out of me. I could

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Speaker 2: not have a B or anything, nothing less than the A.

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Speaker 2: But then being told that you're not even intelligent, it

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Speaker 2: took me years. I was hurt. I was hurt. I

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Speaker 2: was devastated. I got to college with no relationship skills.

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Speaker 2: I had never been hugged by my mother, you know,

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Speaker 2: because she didn't know how to hug. There was no

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Speaker 2: I love using any of the stuff. The stuff I

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Speaker 2: say in the poem is very is very real. And

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Speaker 2: it took me learning black history when I got to college,

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Speaker 2: to Rutgers and understanding the devastating effects of slavery, all

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Speaker 2: of it on us. But more importantly, Yana, it took

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Speaker 2: me going to therapy to forgive my mother, you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean, and to begin to forgive like I

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Speaker 2: understand it because I don't know what it's like to

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Speaker 2: be a black woman who has to deal with racism

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Speaker 2: and sexism, and if you're a poor black woman the

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Speaker 2: way my mother was, the way you were at points

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Speaker 2: in your life, the classism as well, I have no

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Speaker 2: idea what that did to her, you know, And so

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Speaker 2: she was just operating out of what she knew, you know.

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Speaker 2: And I think that it's important what I say to

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Speaker 2: mothers all the time. Now, it's just really important that

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Speaker 2: the hurt that you have felt by the society racism, sexism, classism,

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Speaker 2: and any of the isms and phobias that you, whatever

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Speaker 2: your identity or identities are, you know, but also if

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Speaker 2: it happens to be the father of that child, that

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Speaker 2: you not take out that hurt on the child, because

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Speaker 2: the child. It's the generational traumas. We didn't have the

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Speaker 2: word trauma like we do now, but that's what I

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Speaker 2: was carrying around and I ended up hurting a lot

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Speaker 2: of people as a result of it. And I don't

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Speaker 2: blame my mother. I simply was acting out what I learned.

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Speaker 2: And then I realized when I got to college, well, hell,

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Speaker 2: a lot of us are damage and were just acting

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Speaker 2: out on each other right.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know that's what brings up the beauty. Very shortly,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to talk to Courtney b Vans. He just

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Speaker 1: wrote a book entitled The Invisible Ache. Wow, and my

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Speaker 1: I'm on a mission. I want every man with two

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Speaker 1: eyeballs just to identify his invisible ache. But what you

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Speaker 1: say here is so critical that and in the album,

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Speaker 1: what I recognized was based on what you were saying,

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Speaker 1: you did something that is very important for men and

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Speaker 1: building a healthy relationship with their mother. A. You learned

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Speaker 1: her story, yes, because you talked about her being dark skinned,

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Speaker 1: You talked about her being born in South Carolina. You

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Speaker 1: talked about how her father they used to beat her,

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Speaker 1: which probably established her relationship with men, her thoughts about men,

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Speaker 1: and although I think your mother and I might be

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Speaker 1: around the same age, believe it or not, I'm heading

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Speaker 1: in that direction. But you talked about the impact of

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Speaker 1: her history on her story and how her story impacted

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Speaker 1: how she treated you. So many men don't take the

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Speaker 1: time to learn their mother's story and they make it personal.

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Speaker 1: She came after me personally. In fact, Kevin, I've got

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Speaker 1: some mothers on the line, and I want you to

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Speaker 1: talk to them as a son. Okay, greetings beloved, and

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Speaker 1: welcome to the R Spot. My guest and I my guest,

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Speaker 1: Kevin Powell, and I are talking to sons about their mothers,

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Speaker 1: and mothers about their sons so that we can get

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Speaker 1: some healing on the table. Are you in good relationship

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Speaker 1: or breakdown? Which a son right now used.

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Speaker 3: To be good? Now I'm in breakdown. He is a

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Speaker 3: fifteen year old uh huh, and he's just we were

399
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Speaker 3: very very close growing up, and over the past couple

400
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:19,520
Speaker 3: of years he has started to pull away and his

401
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 3: grades are inconsistent up and down. He's smart, his work

402
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Speaker 3: ethic is compromised. He's kind of isolating. I've had him.

403
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Speaker 3: I've had him talk to somebody and she's like, yeah,

404
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,720
Speaker 3: he's a typical teenage boy. Don't even worry about it.

405
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Speaker 3: But the controlling person and the fearful person in me

406
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Speaker 3: is kind of confused on how is a mom do

407
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Speaker 3: I step back and start parenting him like a fifteen

408
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Speaker 3: year old a young adult male, and without not without

409
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Speaker 3: like having him end up on Doctor philm someday. So

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Speaker 3: I want to give him his space to grow and develop,

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Speaker 3: and I put full trust in you know, my creator

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Speaker 3: that he's handling everything. But as a mom, I get worried.

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Speaker 3: I do I just you know, I want him to

414
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Speaker 3: be happy and live his life for what makes him happy.

415
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Speaker 3: He's not involved in anything. He's an incredible artist and poet.

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Speaker 3: He doesn't do anything anymore. He basically just isolates.

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Speaker 1: Wow, where's his dad? Where's his dad?

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Speaker 2: Great question?

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Speaker 3: His dad is in his life. The only thing is

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Speaker 3: is I'm kind of the disciplinarian and dad's the fun guy.

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Speaker 3: So you know, I'm always bearing that brunt. I grew

422
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Speaker 3: up and you know, my dad was was addicted to

423
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Speaker 3: heroin and it was a violent household. And so I'm

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Speaker 3: trying to parent things differently. I'm a first gen college grad.

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Speaker 3: I'm trying to kind of reshape things. And I think

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Speaker 3: sometimes I'd a little bit of a helicopter because I'm

427
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Speaker 3: concerned that he maybe go to he might go down

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Speaker 3: the same path and struggles that I did, and I

429
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 3: obviously want to shelter him from them. Different environment, but

430
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 3: I still have my you know, my legacy issues from

431
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 3: my ancestral issues from you know, growing up.

432
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to let you talk to a son. Yes, so, Kevin.

433
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 1: You know, as a mom, I know what it's like

434
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 1: to have a fifteen year old male. Aw blessing is

435
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 1: she does have the father there. But as a son,

436
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: what would you say to this mom?

437
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 2: Wow, I think it's important to really have some conversations

438
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 2: with him about where he is. I just had this

439
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 2: conversation Madam Caller and Ayana with a parent of single mom,

440
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 2: a mother of a thirteen year old, and I just said,

441
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 2: it's important for a parent to evolve with their child,

442
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 2: and I wish, you know, this is a conversation I

443
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 2: could have with my Mother's clear to me that you

444
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 2: can have this with your son. I think we can't operate.

445
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 2: We can't parent from fear. We can't parent from For example,

446
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 2: the way my mother parented me was, you know, don't

447
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 2: get anyone pregnant, you know, as a teenager, don't get

448
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 2: in trouble, you know, don't don't go outside. It was

449
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 2: very fear based, and I think that is what is happening.

450
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 2: I believe with the boys, especially because unfortunately the way

451
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 2: and I don't want to speak in the binary because

452
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 2: I love all people in all identities, but if we're

453
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 2: talking about you know, especially heterosexual boys for a second here,

454
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of times we're not even encouraged

455
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 2: to express ourselves. Now, you said your son is an artist,

456
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 2: which you know, I don't even know his gender identity

457
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 2: doesn't really matter, but the fact that he's just an

458
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 2: artist means that he knows how to express himself. He's

459
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 2: done it, and I think that there's something going on

460
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 2: is causing him to shut down, and we've got to

461
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 2: get to the root of that. And I think it's

462
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 2: important to have some conversations with either you and him,

463
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 2: or you and his father and him, just like, how

464
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 2: are you feeling, you know, where are you at No

465
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 2: pressure about college, no pressure what do you want to

466
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 2: do with your life? No pressure of what I got,

467
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 2: which is at eighteen, you're going to be an adult

468
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 2: and you got to figure something out. And for me,

469
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 2: it was like, you got to go to college, You're

470
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 2: gonna go to military, you gotta get a job, you

471
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 2: gotta do something. Just kind of because I think it's

472
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 2: important to create a space where boys feel comfortable to

473
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 2: talk because often in our society, we do not encourage

474
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 2: boys to express themselves except through shutting down completely and

475
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,959
Speaker 2: making themselves invisible, or it comes out as rage in

476
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 2: some sort of form, you know what I mean. We

477
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 2: don't want that to happen, obviously, So I think it's

478
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 2: about creating a safe space where they can say, you know,

479
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 2: at fifteen, I want to talk about some things. You know,

480
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 2: here's what I'm feeling, Here's what I'm thinking. And so

481
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 2: I think that that's important and I just and I

482
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 2: want to say this too. In our society, I feel

483
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 2: like it doesn't matter that the boys are black, white,

484
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 2: latinx Asian Indigenous. I think that, you know, there's a

485
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 2: crisis in how we define manhood here where I see

486
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 2: the same patterns happening boys, and Yalla, you know what

487
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 2: I'm talking about. You know you want to ask I

488
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 2: do one of your most famous interviews, conversations with DMX,

489
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,719
Speaker 2: I cite that a lot as here's what happens to

490
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 2: us a lot of times as boys, and it ends

491
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 2: up becoming self destructive behavior. And so for me at fifteen,

492
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,239
Speaker 2: ended up getting in trouble with the police. It ended

493
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 2: up getting arrested a couple of times. You know, it

494
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 2: ended up my mother ended up saying things to me like,

495
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're going to make I don't

496
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 2: know if you're going to actually make it. I did, thankfully,

497
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 2: but she didn't have the the again, the full picture

498
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 2: to be able to articulate or figure out what I needed.

499
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 2: And I think what boys need is to say, then

500
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 2: that we give to those who identify as girls. They

501
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 2: need love, they need the spaces bit to express themselves.

502
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 2: And you know, I just spoke to four hundred young

503
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 2: boys Ayana and call her on Saturday in Seattle, and

504
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 2: what I wasn't a speech because they were teenagers, they

505
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 2: were your son's age, but they got up there and

506
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 2: they said things like, you know, boys should be able

507
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 2: to cry without judgment, you know what I mean? We

508
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 2: should speak freely when everyone's saying that there's something wrong

509
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: with us, and I think what we got to create

510
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 2: that space for them? You know, This is what a

511
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 2: Yalla's work has been about, you know. But there's very

512
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 2: few spaces like hers where we say to boys, to males, hey,

513
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 2: you know that you're hurting too. You got to say

514
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 2: because if you don't do it, then think about the

515
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 2: herd that. I'm not saying it's gonna happen with your son.

516
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 2: But I was someone who grew up very in a

517
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 2: violent world and I ended up being very violent. I

518
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: talked about that openly because I didn't know there was

519
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 2: other ways to express myself. And I'm a writer just

520
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 2: like your son's a artists, you know. But even there,

521
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 2: you know, is he in safe spaces where he can

522
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 2: be free to express himself as an artist or is

523
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 2: he being dissed? Is he being bullied? We don't know

524
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 2: if we don't have those conversations with him.

525
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 3: It's that balance and having those conversations, and I do

526
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 3: have them. He's more resistant, but I know I can't

527
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 3: give up, and I have to trust and how I've

528
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 3: raised him. He has that freedom state. It is a

529
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 3: little challenging because my husband can be a little bit

530
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 3: like we'll call it neanderthali ish, like, oh, you can't

531
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 3: do this, you can't do that. It's the pressures that

532
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 3: these teenagers go through to be a certain way and

533
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 3: do a certain thing. And and you know, it's that's

534
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 3: the that's the problem. It's the peer pressures.

535
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, then we'll talk about that when we come back.

536
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the r spot. Let's get back to

537
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:54,719
Speaker 1: the conversation. Mama, this is mother to mother now Okay, okay,

538
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: too many words, too much mind. Let me say something

539
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: to you. And I'm saying this to you as a

540
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 1: mother right now. You are not mothering him. You are

541
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: fathering him.

542
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right, Yeah, I know my masculine energy. I'm

543
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 3: not leaning into my feminine I know.

544
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: Yes, Yes. What is your son's love language? Words of

545
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: affirmation as a love language, quality time is a love language,

546
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 1: acts of service. This what I'm saying is how does

547
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: he receive love? How does he recognize love? And it

548
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,479
Speaker 1: sounds to me like you're giving direction and you're trying

549
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: to be there, but you're doing it from a headspace

550
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: not a hard space. The fact that you doubt him

551
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: or that you don't trust him, that you are highlighting

552
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: what could be wrong. See, he is fifteen, so he's

553
00:28:54,040 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: in the stage of identity versus identity crisis. He's trying

554
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: to figure out who he is, and his mother doubting

555
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: him is devastating. I hear you say he's an artist,

556
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: but you are dealing with him as though he is

557
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: an engineer. Find out his love language, sometimes his love

558
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: if his love language is affection, or if his love

559
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: language is quality time. I didn't know my son's love language,

560
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: which were words of affirmation, so I never affirmed him.

561
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: I corrected him, I guided him, I directed him. I

562
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: told him what to do, and I never said you're fine,

563
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: you okay. And my son raised by a single mom,

564
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: when he turned eighteen, he went out in the street

565
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: and did everything I told him not to do, everything

566
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: that he couldn't do under my roof. He did it

567
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: between eighteen and twenty one and ended up with a

568
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: sentence in prison. He should have got could have got

569
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: seven and a half to fifteen, but with prayer, he

570
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: got three and a half to seven. And all of

571
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: that time he was in there three and a half years.

572
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: All I did was pray because by then I knew

573
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: his love language. By then I knew that I had

574
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: never affirmed him. Oh baby, you're sitting in your room

575
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: by yourself. I hope you getting good ideas. You need

576
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: some tea, He asked not to be freaked out because

577
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: he's in the room by hisself. And if you fill

578
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: the space with an energy of worry and doubt and heat, Ma,

579
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: he lived in your body. He heard your heart beat.

580
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: He knows what you're saying, even when you don't say it.

581
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: He feels you. Stop giving him words, give him your heart,

582
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: find out his love language.

583
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 3: Thank you. I absolutely will and I do. When he

584
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 3: said school, by the way, I do go in his

585
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 3: room and pray, and I think prayers as I walk around.

586
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 1: His room, but he ain't in the room over him.

587
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 3: Yes, I will absolutely do that for sure.

588
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Kevin.

589
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 2: You know my self esteem was shot as a boy

590
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 2: growing up.

591
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: What does that mean? Break that down? Tell her what

592
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: that means.

593
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 2: I was confused about who I was because I was

594
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 2: given a lot of orders by my mom and never

595
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 2: the affirmation that word did you just said to Yana,

596
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 2: there were no affirmations at all. And I'm not saying

597
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 2: that we need to baby boys, and some people like

598
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 2: to call it quote unquote. I definitely don't want to

599
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 2: enable boys to be irresponsible, you know. But I do

600
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 2: think we take for granted, you know, when we participate

601
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 2: in this this notion that that you know, girls can

602
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 2: be nurtured but boys can't be nurtured. I think we

603
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 2: do the boys of the service, you know what I mean.

604
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 2: And I don't think we actually develop as whole human

605
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 2: beings in a way that people who are girls or

606
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 2: women do and are in touch in a different way

607
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 2: with their emotions, to Yanna's point. And so I was

608
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 2: very all over the place. I just I didn't even

609
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 2: know how to function outside of like, let me, let

610
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 2: me go to school, let me do what my mom

611
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 2: tells me to do, and that's it. And when I

612
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 2: got to college, honestly, my college year is other than

613
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 2: my activism, and discovering I was a writer for real

614
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 2: was really a disaster because I know who I was

615
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 2: and now I'm out in the world on my own,

616
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 2: and I had no relation. Like I said a moment ago,

617
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 2: I had no love skills, relationship skills, friendship, skills, I

618
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 2: was socially awkward, all those kinds of things, and I

619
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 2: just think, you know, to y'alla's point, I do feel

620
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 2: there needs to be a shift, you know, and how

621
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 2: we relate to our sons. I really believe that because

622
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 2: I end up what ends up happening a lot of

623
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 2: times is people like me are asked to have conversations

624
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 2: with people's sons all the time, you know what I mean.

625
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 2: And I'm not just talking about the mother's. Oftentimes it's

626
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 2: father's as well, you know, because people are trying to

627
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 2: raise them in a way that they think they're supposed to.

628
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 2: And I think it's important to be honest. And y'all

629
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 2: please tell me because you are a mother, you've been

630
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 2: a mother, I mean, haven't you had to reinvent the

631
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 2: book along the way a few times?

632
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: Oh hell yeah, not reinvent the rule book, but throw

633
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: the rule book out. And here here's the other thing.

634
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: And my son told me this on a collect call

635
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: from prison. Wow, okay, he said, the fears you had

636
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: for me were not the fears I had for myself.

637
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

638
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: The other thing he said to me was you gave

639
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: me enough rope to hang myself. And then when I

640
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: did you beat me up about it? Yeah, my son

641
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: said that to me. Yeah, sound familiar, Mama.

642
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 3: That just resonated because that is exactly what I feel.

643
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 3: It's almost like you spoke his words like I don't

644
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 3: have these, guess and I'm confident. Why are you doubting me?

645
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 3: And I'm putting that energy back to him that he's absorbing.

646
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's.

647
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 3: Making him out himself and kind of say, will screw it? Yeah,

648
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 3: And she doesn't believe this, and no one I might

649
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 3: as well do it.

650
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: That's devastating. Listen and listen to this. Mama. First, I'm

651
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 1: gonna say this to you again. Stop fathering him, back down,

652
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: pump your brakes, stop trying to change him, and just

653
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: give him space to unfold and become who he is.

654
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: And as Kevin said, you cannot parent from fear.

655
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 2: No, no, no.

656
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: You cannot. That is so destructive. And so many mothers

657
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: do that for their sons and their daughters, but it's

658
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: devastating for the sons. Stop fathering him, mother him, and

659
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: give him your heart. Too many words, too much mind,

660
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: I'm a shut up.

661
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 2: Wow.

662
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 3: Thank you that I have been so incredibly helpful. I'm

663
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 3: truly truly grateful for you both, and thank you so

664
00:34:59,120 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 3: so much.

665
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 2: Thank you.

666
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: I'm all right, mama, thank you, good luck, thanks alrighty,

667
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 1: thank you bye.

668
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 3: Grateful for you both.

669
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much.

670
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: Thank you, Kevin. That is so so important. Wow, when

671
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 1: you hear these things and you think about this offering,

672
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,879
Speaker 1: because even your offering on your album to your father, Yeah,

673
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: when you say I forgive you, Yeah, what what comes

674
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: up for you? When you hear these things from these mothers?

675
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 3: You know?

676
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 2: It's profound? Is that.

677
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: I I.

678
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 2: Text my wife as I was listening, you know, I

679
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 2: just said, Wow, A lots so many of us are

680
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: hurting out here. Even a love song, the first love

681
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 2: song on my album for you, because my wife and

682
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 2: I talked very honestly about our dysfunctions that we were

683
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 2: bringing to the table, our traumas, and I think we said,

684
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 2: I say in that song that we don't want to

685
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 2: be married to destruction, you know what I mean? Yeah,

686
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 2: I just think that we have to The word is healing.

687
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:57,879
Speaker 2: The word is healing. The word is healing. The word

688
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 2: is healing. And you know, but we can't get to

689
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 2: the healing if we're not willing to be honest about everything.

690
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 2: And as you've been saying throughout this show and thank

691
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 2: you for it, is what are you willing to take

692
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 2: responsibility for? You know what I mean? Man? You know

693
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 2: I heard my mother's hurt as I was listening to

694
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:18,439
Speaker 2: the last caller. I understand it, you know, I really do.

695
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,240
Speaker 2: And you know you said something earlier like what helped

696
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 2: me as a male I identify persons when I began

697
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 2: to read women writers like yourself back in the nineties

698
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 2: and Order Lord and Belle Hooks and you know, Tony

699
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 2: Morris and Alse Well, just a range of sisters. Because

700
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 2: I realized I was hearing my mother's stories in you

701
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 2: all's words, you know, yes, and so it gave me

702
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 2: compassion and empathy that I didn't have before. I gotta

703
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 2: be brilli honest with you. I was angry at my

704
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 2: mother for years. We had a terrible relationship, and in

705
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 2: my twenties she changed the locks on her door. She

706
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 2: didn't want me to come back. She's like, you can't

707
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 2: come back here, disrespect I was disrespectful to her because

708
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,240
Speaker 2: I didn't have anywhere to put that rage, that anger

709
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 2: that I felt because of racism, systemic racism, because of

710
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 2: the whole that you you know you talked about with

711
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 2: my father not being there, and then there was no

712
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 2: forward motional with my mother. I had to be the

713
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 2: one to evolve the relationship my mother. She still in

714
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 2: many ways relates to me as if I'm a child,

715
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 2: you know, because she's not able to she hasn't been

716
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 2: able to grow, you know, she's she's still hurt from

717
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 2: all the things that's happened to her. But I said,

718
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 2: I gotta I can't change my mother, But what I

719
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:27,959
Speaker 2: can change is how I relate to my mother.

720
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 1: You know, yes, right there, say it again, Say it again,

721
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: say it again.

722
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 2: I can't change my mother, though, yeah, it can change

723
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 2: how I relate to my mother. Yes, And I made

724
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 2: a constant decision that it needs to be with love.

725
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 2: But I had to learn to love myself, a Yallabanzane.

726
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 2: I had to learn to love myself and as you know,

727
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 2: love self, love is a journey is never ending. But

728
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:49,879
Speaker 2: I was like, I got to figure this out, and now

729
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie to you my word. There are

730
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 2: times my mother's words still hurt me. There's this still

731
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 2: you know, things that are said to me or about me.

732
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: Was there anything that your mother could have done differently

733
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: that would have changed who you are and your response

734
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: to her. What could she have done differently?

735
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 2: This is getting very deep, mister y.

736
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: We grocery shopper. That's all.

737
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 2: I wish that my mother could have known what the

738
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 2: physical beatings, including when I was asleep, which are the

739
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 2: same things that happened to her when she was a

740
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,240
Speaker 2: girl by her father, and the verbal beatings, the damage

741
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 2: that it did to me as a boy, as a child.

742
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 2: I wish she would have known or could have known

743
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 2: the confusion I felt when she said, don't be like

744
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 2: your father, but you look like your father. You're just

745
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 2: like that No good goddamn quote unquote, I'm going to

746
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 2: say his name. It was all taken I'm an only child,

747
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 2: so it was all taken out on me. Yeah. Yeah,

748
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 2: So I wish that my mother could have known that

749
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 2: a hug, a kiss, I love you, the affirmations that

750
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 2: you talked about earlier, the difference could have made.

751
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

752
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

753
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 2: It literally took me into my fifties. I'm in the

754
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,280
Speaker 2: same generation as your son, y'all, van Zan, I'm finally

755
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 2: in a healthy, loving relationship my second marriage because I

756
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 2: felt like I spent my entire adult life, through my twenties, thirties, forties,

757
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 2: into my fifties trying to figure it, to undo all

758
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 2: the damage that I experienced, not just for my mother,

759
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 2: my father, my family, the society, all of it, because

760
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: I simply did not have the tools emotionally and spiritually

761
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 2: to be a man Kevin power.

762
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: Before I let you go, I want to ask you

763
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: about this, but what.

764
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 2: She got sick? Lord, really sick. A few years back,

765
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 2: I was terrified a loose to my mother. I had

766
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 2: her speed dial to the hospital there in Jersey, has

767
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 2: sprinted me as fast as I could to be with us.

768
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: I want to ask you this, Help me understand this.

769
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: Terrified of losing her and angry at her at the

770
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 1: same time. How do you wear that? How do you

771
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,439
Speaker 1: hold that? Because I think a lot of men are

772
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: in that place. A lot of sons have this breakdown,

773
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: upset with their mom, but at the same time terrified

774
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: of losing her.

775
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 2: As much as I've talked about my mother in my

776
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 2: life and my writings and my speeches everywhere, it wasn't

777
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 2: until this show today with you You've said it a

778
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 2: few times, reminding us that we were inside our mother's

779
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 2: and heard the heartbeat. Felt the heartbeat was our heartbeat.

780
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 2: I never heard it put like that, Terrified of losing

781
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 2: her now, twenty years from now, whenever it is, because

782
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 2: that's the first sign of life I ever had, reconciling anger,

783
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 2: because she still has that way of speaking to me

784
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 2: that forces me at times to get off the phone

785
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,720
Speaker 2: really quickly, or even when I go over for things

786
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 2: like Thanksgiving, I have an internal clock like I can

787
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 2: only be here for a certain amount of time because

788
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 2: I just don't want to feel like I have felt

789
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 2: throughout my life because of her pain. It's attention that

790
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 2: is unexplainable. You know, you love your mother, but you

791
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 2: also wish that your mother could evolve with you. You

792
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 2: love your parent you wish they can grow as you've

793
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,359
Speaker 2: been growing. But you also have to accept that not

794
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 2: all of them will, including maybe yours, and the best

795
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 2: you can do is just be there for them. And

796
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 2: that's why I was at that grocery store for my mother.

797
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 2: She calls me, she knows she's got me. I got

798
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,839
Speaker 2: a whole system at Yalla Vanzete Place for my mother

799
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 2: in my hometown in Jersey City. Anything my mother ever needs,

800
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 2: because at the end of the day. As I try

801
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 2: to say in this poem on this album, Grocery shopping

802
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 2: with my mother, It's a kind of love that is

803
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 2: it can't even be defined. You know, I love my

804
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 2: wife deeply. My wife is the most important person to

805
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 2: me in my life. But my mother gave me life,

806
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 2: and I've had to figure out, through years of therapy

807
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 2: and spiritual work and all the things that I do,

808
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 2: how to forgive her and love her unconditionally even when

809
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 2: she still hurts me. To this day. It is hard

810
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 2: at Yalla van zandt. It is hard when I'm cursed at,

811
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 2: when I'm called a name, to this day, when I'm

812
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 2: ridiculed for decisions, when it's assumed that I, a grown man,

813
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 2: don't know what I'm doing and saying it is hard.

814
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 2: But what helps me to get through it is I

815
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 2: can't imagine what it's like to be born in nineteen

816
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 2: forty three in this country and label colored or negro,

817
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 2: to be a victim of racism, sexism, and classicism, to

818
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: be a darskined black woman and told that she's not

819
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 2: beautiful her entire life and not half in a Yalla

820
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 2: van Zant or an Oprah Winfrey or any of the

821
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 2: folks who have come along like you all have created

822
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 2: healing spaces. That is how I'm able to love my mother.

823
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 2: I've had to come to an understanding. I realized she

824
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 2: is silly in the color purple. She is those characters

825
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 2: in those twenty Morrison novels. She is the journey of

826
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 2: black women in this world where you all have to

827
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 2: be everything for everyone, and then you wake up and

828
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 2: there's nothing left for you. And I decided I have

829
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 2: to give my mother something she deserved that eightieth the

830
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 2: party I gave her. She deserves to be able to

831
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 2: be in a car service. She deserves to be able

832
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 2: to have some things that she never thought she could

833
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 2: have in her life because the son that she raised,

834
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 2: that she gave an imagination to by taking to the library,

835
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 2: has been blessed to better show my mother thinks she

836
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 2: could even imagine.

837
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:22,240
Speaker 1: But your sharing speaks to the importance of a son

838
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 1: knowing his mother's story as a woman. I'm sorry to

839
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 1: take you here, Kevin, but you are healing hundreds of

840
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: thousands of sons today, So I'm gonna take it. I'm

841
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: gonna use you till I use your up.

842
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am, Yes, ma'am, let's just take the card.

843
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:44,720
Speaker 1: Says it helps her back. MA is afraid to fall.

844
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 2: MA ain't gonna fall in front of no strangers.

845
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,839
Speaker 1: My mother's power is in the steering of the shopping car.

846
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 1: She pushes it forward the way a truck driver enters

847
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,280
Speaker 1: their tractor through bumper from bumper traffic.

848
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 2: Wobbles slowly from the car when she spots an items

849
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:10,280
Speaker 2: she needs lord gree peaches, full red apples, five bananas,

850
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 2: a package of chocolate chip cookies, a bunch of collar greens,

851
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 2: a carton of orange juice.

852
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: That clip led into your speaking to when she fell

853
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 1: in your house and you and her ended up looking

854
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: eye to eye, and you said, here I am with

855
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 1: a woman who never hugged me, never kissed me, never

856
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: told me she loved me. And then I hear you

857
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: speak to sending a car service for her and giving

858
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 1: the birthday party for her, how you walk behind her

859
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: in the supermarket, watching her pick those things up. And

860
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: what comes to mind for me, Kevin, is somehow maybe

861
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: you didn't even know that you you were doing this.

862
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 1: You separated your heart and love from your mother, from

863
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: her behavior that bruised and wounded you.

864
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you.

865
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 1: Know how you did that or are you aware that

866
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: that's what you did? That? You put the behavior over here,

867
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: but you allowed the love to remain over here. Do

868
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: you know how you did that?

869
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:23,959
Speaker 2: Therapy? Years of things?

870
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 1: Okay? Okay?

871
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 2: And how can I say I love black people if

872
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:36,359
Speaker 2: I can't forgive black people? How can I say we

873
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,439
Speaker 2: love We should love black people unconditionally. But I put

874
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 2: conditions on my love for my mother.

875
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:46,439
Speaker 1: M put conditions on your love for your mother. How

876
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 1: many sons do that? They want their mother to be

877
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 1: this way or that way? And what I'm hearing you

878
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: say is that you accepted her exactly as you are

879
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,959
Speaker 1: and created boundaries to protect yourself. Get off the phone,

880
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: only stay this amount of time. Don't take it personally.

881
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: When she goes off, eighty years old, grown up with

882
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: no affirmation in a racist society. You put that over there,

883
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: and wow, she is blessed to have you.

884
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 2: You know, I'm blessed that she gave birth to me.

885
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 2: And you know, as I was listening to you, counsel,

886
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 2: I wish i'd put my mom on the phone with you.

887
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,320
Speaker 1: No, she would cuss me out. I know that kind

888
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, baby, and you know what she says, I'm

889
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: gonna plead the blood of Jesus over.

890
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 2: You, and then I could say nothing.

891
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 1: Kevin Paull grocery shopping with my mother. I'm going to

892
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 1: speak into existence that you need to start writing your

893
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 1: acceptance speech for that Grammy right now. But I want

894
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: to also ask you, what is your message to mothers.

895
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 2: To all mothers? Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm

896
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 2: one man who has learned by listening through the years,

897
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,399
Speaker 2: and I continue to listen and learn from Mayana van Zan,

898
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 2: from my mama, from my wife. My gosh, I can't

899
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 2: even imagine what it's like to be a woman and

900
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:21,320
Speaker 2: too black women. You know what Malcolm X says when

901
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 2: Beyonce sampled Malcolm X talking about how black women are

902
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 2: the most disrespected people, you know, on her Elimonade album

903
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 2: a few years ago. I mean, I say, to black women,

904
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 2: there's no world without y'all. There's no world without black women.

905
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,800
Speaker 2: There's no world without black mothers. There's nothing without black mothers.

906
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 2: You know, not only have you had to raise your

907
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 2: own children, but you have to help raise other people's children.

908
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, thank you, thank you, thank you,

909
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 2: and I apologize, just like you said apologies earlier. I apologize,

910
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 2: and I'm doing my best now as a black man

911
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 2: to help other black males understand that. You know, no

912
00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 2: matter what we go through, we cannot, cannot, cannot take

913
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:01,240
Speaker 2: it out on black women.

914
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: And what would your message be to sons today? What

915
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: would your message be to sons?

916
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 2: Heil, heil, don't be afraid men, boys out there, sons

917
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 2: expressing how you feel. It's okay to be vulnerable. It's

918
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 2: okay to cry, It's okay to say your hurting, is

919
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 2: okay to say you're depressed. Don't sabotage yourself as I

920
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 2: have done many times. You know, no judgment, no judgment,

921
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 2: no judgment. But we got to learn how to love

922
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 2: ourselves so we can bring love into this world.

923
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:38,240
Speaker 1: Kevin Powell, cultural activist, author of the Grammy nominated album

924
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 1: Grocery Shopping with My Mother.

925
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 2: Thank you, I love you, I appreciate you.

926
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:48,399
Speaker 1: Thank you our spotters. I hope you've heard something here

927
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 1: today that will heal your relationship with your son. If

928
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 1: you're a mother with your mother, if you're a son,

929
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 1: I hope that you go out and get this spoken word.

930
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 1: The album and the book, and I hope that you

931
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: find in this conversation exactly what it is that you

932
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 1: need to support your healing. I am so grateful for

933
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 1: this conversation. What do you think, Kevin? Should we take

934
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,919
Speaker 1: a few more callers and see how we can help

935
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 1: them on their healing journey?

936
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 2: Yeah?

937
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 1: I say let's do it. Kevin and I will be

938
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 1: back next week with a deep dive with two new callers,

939
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 1: so we'll see you then. In the meantime, stay in

940
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 1: peace and not in pieces.

941
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 3: Thank you.

942
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 1: The R Spot is a production of Shondaland Audio in

943
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit

944
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

945
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:54,320
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.