1
00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:06,720
Speaker 1: Hey, that folks, Amy a TJ. Here. We're actually joining

2
00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,800
Speaker 1: you just mid conversation. We have been sitting here going

3
00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,520
Speaker 1: back and forth for about twenty minutes about what we

4
00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:17,439
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about in this episode. Meanwhile, we just

5
00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,320
Speaker 1: recorded a pretty good episode that wasn't recorded that would

6
00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:22,959
Speaker 1: have been great if we were rolling on it. But

7
00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:24,720
Speaker 1: we don't know what to do, folks, We're torn. I

8
00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:29,200
Speaker 1: think we're recording this now, day after day after the verdicts,

9
00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:31,760
Speaker 1: and that we're digesting it robes now and you and

10
00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:33,519
Speaker 1: I have been going back and forth about what we

11
00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,040
Speaker 1: make of Diddy, what we make of victims, what we

12
00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:44,280
Speaker 1: make now going forward, of how we're supposed to view victims,

13
00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,680
Speaker 1: and the way you put it robes any role they

14
00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:53,000
Speaker 1: do play in the position they end up in, and

15
00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,880
Speaker 1: as it does that make it any less of a crime. Actually,

16
00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:56,840
Speaker 1: this is a mess.

17
00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,240
Speaker 2: It is because I think, look, did he might be

18
00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,880
Speaker 2: the only winner from yesterday's verdict and he's still behind

19
00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,399
Speaker 2: bars and he's going to serve some time. But I

20
00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,480
Speaker 2: think everyone else lost something. And I know if you

21
00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,039
Speaker 2: go online and you google reaction to the Diddy verdict,

22
00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,440
Speaker 2: you'll see and hear from a lot of women's advocacy groups,

23
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,800
Speaker 2: me too movements, victims advocates, and they all are well,

24
00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:21,760
Speaker 2: many of them are outraged. They feel like this is

25
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:27,280
Speaker 2: set back victims' rights, This set back an opportunity for

26
00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:32,360
Speaker 2: women to feel free and comfortable to talk about what

27
00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,480
Speaker 2: happened to them, to even seek charges, to go to police,

28
00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:36,800
Speaker 2: to speak out about.

29
00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,120
Speaker 1: We can't argue all right? Are they right?

30
00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,600
Speaker 2: Do they feel silenced after this because he was not

31
00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:47,480
Speaker 2: convicted of the crimes against the women who claim that

32
00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:48,559
Speaker 2: they suffered under.

33
00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,680
Speaker 1: His vis don't we all and shouldn't we all share

34
00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,560
Speaker 1: in their outrage? Should we all share in at least

35
00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,720
Speaker 1: being in some even if it's not outrage, but in

36
00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,600
Speaker 1: agreement that it's some kind of setback on such a

37
00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:06,680
Speaker 1: high profile case, when there's such a high profile abuser

38
00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:11,280
Speaker 1: that we have witnessed literally on video, that seemingly has

39
00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:12,800
Speaker 1: gotten away with something.

40
00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,520
Speaker 2: So here's my take, and this is what we were discussing. Yes,

41
00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,240
Speaker 2: you're right, it seems like he got away with it. Yes,

42
00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,360
Speaker 2: it seems like he got away with it. That he

43
00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:25,160
Speaker 2: only was convicted for transporting mail escorts across state lines

44
00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,880
Speaker 2: to have paid sex with his then girlfriends and it

45
00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:34,600
Speaker 2: seems like he avoided facing punishment for what we all

46
00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,839
Speaker 2: saw witness and what he even admitted to. Yes, when

47
00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,600
Speaker 2: it came to violence against Cassie, violence against Jane, but

48
00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:46,200
Speaker 2: that was the prosecution who created the situation that we're

49
00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,880
Speaker 2: now all in where we feel defeated or deflated expectations.

50
00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,120
Speaker 1: They set the expectation.

51
00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,360
Speaker 2: Because if here was my issue the whole time, and

52
00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,680
Speaker 2: seeing how it all unfolded, I actually feel even more

53
00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:57,639
Speaker 2: angered by it.

54
00:02:58,240 --> 00:02:59,639
Speaker 3: Why in God's name.

55
00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,400
Speaker 2: I understand there'll be a legal reason and a political reason,

56
00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,400
Speaker 2: but come on, why couldn't Diddy have just been charged

57
00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:13,600
Speaker 2: with the crimes he actually committed, which was assault, domestic violence,

58
00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:20,160
Speaker 2: illegal drug use. Those were things that he admitted. Those

59
00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:24,360
Speaker 2: were things that were absolutely provable, beyond the shadow of

60
00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,520
Speaker 2: a doubt, not just reasonable doubt. And those were things

61
00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,680
Speaker 2: that the defense said, yeah, guilty is charged. Why was

62
00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,360
Speaker 2: he not charged with those crimes? Because if he was

63
00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,720
Speaker 2: charged with those crimes, and that's what people were so

64
00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,280
Speaker 2: upset about, obviously, when they saw that video of Cassie

65
00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:46,920
Speaker 2: venture Fine being physically assaulted under a surveillance video, when

66
00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:53,240
Speaker 2: several people testified to personally witnessing egregious acts of assault

67
00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,680
Speaker 2: and violence? Why was he not charged for all of

68
00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,839
Speaker 2: those numerous times that were well documented.

69
00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,400
Speaker 3: If he was charged with that, he would have.

70
00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,040
Speaker 2: Either pled guilty to those or he would have been convicted.

71
00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,720
Speaker 2: And then wouldn't we all feel good as women and

72
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,200
Speaker 2: as women advocates that he was charged and convicted or

73
00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,360
Speaker 2: at least paying his dues for those crimes.

74
00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,320
Speaker 1: I agree, we just can't make sense of we know

75
00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:26,400
Speaker 1: and we have seen now what by all intents and purposes,

76
00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,120
Speaker 1: has been described as a as a monster some of

77
00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,960
Speaker 1: the behavior. And I don't think any of us don't

78
00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,920
Speaker 1: believe the stories that have about these women.

79
00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,039
Speaker 3: Too many people saw too many things, and you.

80
00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,400
Speaker 1: Could talk about intentions and if they were there because

81
00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:45,560
Speaker 1: they wanted to and all, but what happened happened awful,

82
00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,400
Speaker 1: awful stuff. Nobody is saying did he is a good dude?

83
00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:51,040
Speaker 1: But how are we now? And that's what we say,

84
00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:55,600
Speaker 1: we are torn? How are we supposed to reconcile? I

85
00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,200
Speaker 1: think did he should be in jail for the crimes

86
00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:03,960
Speaker 1: I've heard described, But at the same time I can

87
00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,760
Speaker 1: be comfortable with the verdict that is going to keep

88
00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,520
Speaker 1: him out of jail for a long long time. That's

89
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,279
Speaker 1: the torn part of you want the guy to be

90
00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,520
Speaker 1: in jail, but not for what you all charged him for,

91
00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,480
Speaker 1: because it doesn't make sense that a guy who was

92
00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,920
Speaker 1: a Look, I know, the shirts were cute and everything outside,

93
00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,760
Speaker 1: what was it? A Freako is not a Rico some

94
00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,520
Speaker 1: of the T shirts they were selling outside at the jailhouse.

95
00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,359
Speaker 3: But that's what that kind of sums it up well.

96
00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,400
Speaker 1: In one T shirt, Freeco is not a Rico.

97
00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:44,719
Speaker 2: Wow, And honestly it's catchy and it's true. And I

98
00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,200
Speaker 2: think that's what's feeling off for so many folks. And

99
00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,640
Speaker 2: we can all point fingers here, there and everywhere at

100
00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,480
Speaker 2: who was the bad guy, who was wrong, who did this?

101
00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,920
Speaker 2: And whether or not Cassie and Jane were actual I mean, yes,

102
00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,919
Speaker 2: they were victims of violence, they were victory of assault.

103
00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,279
Speaker 2: But in terms of all of the things the prosecution

104
00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,760
Speaker 2: was trying to prove and say about Didy and his

105
00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:12,520
Speaker 2: enterprise and his co conspirators and his racketeering and conspiracy charges,

106
00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,120
Speaker 2: that all just felt like a false narrative that they

107
00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,279
Speaker 2: were trying. They were overreaching, They were trying to put

108
00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:19,240
Speaker 2: this guy away for life.

109
00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,679
Speaker 3: Why not just charge him with what he actually did.

110
00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,960
Speaker 1: And folks will argue that the victims didn't come forward,

111
00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,039
Speaker 1: they didn't come forward in time, and all of those things.

112
00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,760
Speaker 1: But at the same time, the federal government isn't going

113
00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:38,040
Speaker 1: to go after Sean Diddy Combs for domestic.

114
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,480
Speaker 2: Violence, then why not the state of Florida, Then why

115
00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,760
Speaker 2: not the state of New York? Then why not the

116
00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,599
Speaker 2: state of California? Where is their responsibility?

117
00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,880
Speaker 1: Again, we covered this a whole bunch. Did we hear

118
00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,599
Speaker 1: one report of one person calling the police on Sean

119
00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:59,359
Speaker 1: Diddy Combs? I think the night of the Kid Cutty incident?

120
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,080
Speaker 1: Who call he called? It was a break in in

121
00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,760
Speaker 1: my house. I think that was it. But nobody ever,

122
00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,360
Speaker 1: in all the times, all the beatings, and all the

123
00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,280
Speaker 1: people witnessed, nobody ever called the police to say, hey,

124
00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,120
Speaker 1: Sean Combs is over here beating the hell out of

125
00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,680
Speaker 1: his girlfriend. So we talk about now an outrage and

126
00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:20,960
Speaker 1: people upset and the system has failed. Those jurors failed

127
00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:26,360
Speaker 1: these women. We started counting when this trial started, how

128
00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,840
Speaker 1: many people failed these women because so many people knew

129
00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,200
Speaker 1: what was happening. From a security guard at a hotel,

130
00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,320
Speaker 1: a security guard's wife even knew what was happening.

131
00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:43,320
Speaker 3: There was a long list, Cassie Ventur's own mother, her mom, nurse, stylist,

132
00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,360
Speaker 3: her makeup artist, and we.

133
00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,040
Speaker 1: Want it's this person's fault and this person did it

134
00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:50,640
Speaker 1: wrong and they got it wrong, and they shouldn't have

135
00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,960
Speaker 1: charged this and that. But there is so much and

136
00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:54,880
Speaker 1: I hope we do keep talking about it. It's so

137
00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,520
Speaker 1: much responsibility we all bear in all of this, and

138
00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,080
Speaker 1: how we talk about it in joke about baby oil

139
00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,200
Speaker 1: all damn day on social media. It contributes to this

140
00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,240
Speaker 1: atmosphere where become almost to sensitized to what this was.

141
00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:14,680
Speaker 1: This was a case about monstras' violence against women that

142
00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:19,320
Speaker 1: became something we couldn't understand from a legal standpoint.

143
00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,480
Speaker 2: And further complicating this to your point that no woman,

144
00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,800
Speaker 2: and not even the victims themselves, but all of the

145
00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,840
Speaker 2: people around them who knew who claimed to be in

146
00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,000
Speaker 2: fear of Diddy. And I'm not saying that wasn't true,

147
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:32,599
Speaker 2: but that was what they said. That was part of

148
00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,160
Speaker 2: the reason why they didn't come forward. They were afraid

149
00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,800
Speaker 2: of him. And there were people who just wanted to

150
00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,920
Speaker 2: be around him and with him and liked the financial

151
00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,160
Speaker 2: perks that they got from being with him, working for him,

152
00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,360
Speaker 2: or at least being in his circle. So there were

153
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:53,640
Speaker 2: a lot of different motivations, but a lot of this

154
00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,280
Speaker 2: is and was, and the only reason why we're talking

155
00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,360
Speaker 2: about it is because of money. Money is the reason

156
00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,000
Speaker 2: why did he end it up in court Because Cassi,

157
00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,000
Speaker 2: even to Refine, filed that lawsuit, and if he had

158
00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:08,559
Speaker 2: just settled with her before.

159
00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,680
Speaker 3: That day went by, the lawsuit.

160
00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,640
Speaker 2: Was filed, federal officials got wind of it, saw what

161
00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,360
Speaker 2: she alleged, and then pursued it with an investigation.

162
00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,160
Speaker 3: But this was ultimately about money.

163
00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,920
Speaker 2: This wasn't about justice, This wasn't about the greater good,

164
00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,360
Speaker 2: This wasn't about making sure that Diddy could never or

165
00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,199
Speaker 2: would never do this to another woman. This was about money.

166
00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,560
Speaker 2: And so that also further complicates this conversation. I know,

167
00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,199
Speaker 2: and I understand how difficult, well I don't understand. I

168
00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,360
Speaker 2: can imagine how difficult it was for Cassi even to refine,

169
00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:43,200
Speaker 2: to get on that stand and to testify to these

170
00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,280
Speaker 2: horrific things that happened to her and that she participated in.

171
00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,000
Speaker 2: But she would never have been on that stand if

172
00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:53,840
Speaker 2: she hadn't been seeking money in the first place. And

173
00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,800
Speaker 2: a lot of folks. Then that just draws into question

174
00:09:57,679 --> 00:09:58,719
Speaker 2: the motivation and.

175
00:09:58,679 --> 00:09:59,960
Speaker 3: Where her complicity lies.

176
00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,360
Speaker 2: It just it complicates this whole issue of the me

177
00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:08,280
Speaker 2: too movement and why women do what they do and

178
00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:13,080
Speaker 2: when and how and why they come forward. It just

179
00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,439
Speaker 2: it creates I feel like, if anything, things got greater,

180
00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,120
Speaker 2: well things got more confusing.

181
00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,280
Speaker 1: Then take that on. If somebody would response to you,

182
00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,880
Speaker 1: who gives a damn? She's a victim because she went

183
00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,319
Speaker 1: through what she went through, even if she didn't come

184
00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,600
Speaker 1: forward as a victim herself. It doesn't take away from

185
00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,079
Speaker 1: and it shouldn't change anything about the conversation.

186
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,319
Speaker 2: I agree that she is a victim regardless, Yes, without

187
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,240
Speaker 2: a doubt. What it does is it makes it much

188
00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:45,280
Speaker 2: more difficult in a court to prove anything. And that

189
00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:59,280
Speaker 2: is the problem. It's about being able to prove something. Unfortunately,

190
00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,200
Speaker 2: it's yes anything, any sort of Look, the assault was

191
00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:04,640
Speaker 2: not he said, she said.

192
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:05,840
Speaker 3: It was proven.

193
00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,760
Speaker 2: But in terms of coercion, in terms of whether or

194
00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,679
Speaker 2: not she was able to say no, In terms of

195
00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:17,160
Speaker 2: whether or not she was kidnapped or coerced or forced

196
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,880
Speaker 2: into doing acts she didn't want to commit, that's all

197
00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:24,320
Speaker 2: very difficult to prove when it began with a civil

198
00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,080
Speaker 2: lawsuit that involved tens of millions of dollars.

199
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,679
Speaker 1: Okay, this is this is when I thought, man, we

200
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,840
Speaker 1: should just hit record and start talking, because you pointed

201
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,120
Speaker 1: this out, and it is for me the point you

202
00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:43,600
Speaker 1: were just making the biggest what if? Ever? What if

203
00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:49,080
Speaker 1: when Cassie, even terrified, went to Diddy and said, I

204
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,200
Speaker 1: have this book. You can buy the rights to it

205
00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:57,440
Speaker 1: for twenty million dollars, sign an NDA, You'll never hear

206
00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:01,240
Speaker 1: from me again. If he would have just done that

207
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,720
Speaker 1: on the spot, she would have been obligated to not

208
00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,360
Speaker 1: speak about it ever publicly. And would we have ever

209
00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,880
Speaker 1: found out about any of this about Sean Diddy Combs.

210
00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:15,960
Speaker 3: I don't believe right now, Absolutely not.

211
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:20,200
Speaker 2: Could he have continued in his monstrous ways and finally

212
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,760
Speaker 2: messed with the lack of a better term, the wrong woman.

213
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:29,280
Speaker 2: Absolutely that's possible. But he had spent decades grooming women,

214
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,440
Speaker 2: grooming women, picking women who perhaps he found of a

215
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,800
Speaker 2: certain temperament. I believe he spoke about Cassie. He got

216
00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,520
Speaker 2: them young, he said, she's mouldible. I got her exactly

217
00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,280
Speaker 2: where I want her. So he was grooming women he

218
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,880
Speaker 2: knew to find them where to find them and at

219
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,080
Speaker 2: what age perhaps even to find them, so he knew

220
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,840
Speaker 2: what he was doing. But I think it could possibly

221
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,480
Speaker 2: have happened years down the line that the wrong you know,

222
00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,440
Speaker 2: he picked the wrong woman who decided to speak up

223
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,320
Speaker 2: and speak out and wasn't going to take that. But

224
00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:58,600
Speaker 2: short of that, no, I think he would have been

225
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,000
Speaker 2: able to keep doing what he was doing. So, yes,

226
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:02,960
Speaker 2: I understand you can look at it and say, regardless

227
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,599
Speaker 2: of how it came to light, regardless if it was

228
00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,480
Speaker 2: about money initially, thank god it did come to light

229
00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,240
Speaker 2: because this man needed to be behind bars, and I.

230
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,720
Speaker 3: Truly believe that. I believe Diddy belongs behind bars.

231
00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,240
Speaker 1: But the person at the center of this, and again,

232
00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,080
Speaker 1: this was the point I didn't just stop and think

233
00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:23,960
Speaker 1: about until you hit me with it a few minutes ago,

234
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,720
Speaker 1: was Cassievento. Refine did not want this to come out.

235
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:34,480
Speaker 1: She did not want the world to find out about Diddy, initially,

236
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:35,559
Speaker 1: at least as long as she.

237
00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,240
Speaker 2: Got paid, because she didn't want the world to find

238
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,400
Speaker 2: out what she did and what she participated in. And

239
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:48,720
Speaker 2: I understand that, and so how much of it is regret? Yes, again,

240
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,880
Speaker 2: want to make it crystal clear, it's not okay that

241
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,240
Speaker 2: she was abused and that she was assaulted, and that's

242
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:55,600
Speaker 2: all like, that's not.

243
00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:56,360
Speaker 3: Even up for debate.

244
00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:58,480
Speaker 2: But in terms of the freak offs, in terms of

245
00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,000
Speaker 2: all of that.

246
00:13:59,400 --> 00:13:59,880
Speaker 3: That's.

247
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,160
Speaker 2: That's something that she did participate in, sometimes maybe not

248
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,200
Speaker 2: willingly but other times yes, And that is in and

249
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:09,839
Speaker 2: of itself embarrassing.

250
00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,000
Speaker 1: So what has happened now? And I guess it has been

251
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:16,320
Speaker 1: the trial that we have now turned to examining the victim.

252
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,280
Speaker 1: Isn't this what we always complain about that we examine

253
00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,680
Speaker 1: the victim as if their complicated background makes the crimes

254
00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,440
Speaker 1: against them any less egregious. That cannot be the case,

255
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,040
Speaker 1: and that maybe is a problem in this conversation because

256
00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:35,200
Speaker 1: so much has been exposed, if you will, about what

257
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:40,960
Speaker 1: the girlfriends essentially were getting out of the relationship. Now,

258
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,600
Speaker 1: one argument can be made they were held hostage. Essentially,

259
00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,760
Speaker 1: they were under his power, and they were coursed as

260
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:53,280
Speaker 1: the word continues to be used, but in just generally

261
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,760
Speaker 1: as a just watching it as a human being, you

262
00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,320
Speaker 1: can't help but think that obviously it played a role

263
00:14:59,640 --> 00:14:59,960
Speaker 1: in that.

264
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,720
Speaker 2: Of course, And yes, because no matter what the law is,

265
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,880
Speaker 2: no matter what your jury instructions were from the judge,

266
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,320
Speaker 2: You're still a human being who's lived a certain amount

267
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:13,120
Speaker 2: of experience in life, and you know some of these

268
00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,120
Speaker 2: basic truths that are just within us all, and so

269
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,560
Speaker 2: that had to have played a role in the jury's

270
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,240
Speaker 2: decision to not convict Diddy on these more serious charges.

271
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,400
Speaker 3: That's a reasonable doubt, it is, and I agree with it.

272
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:30,200
Speaker 2: And it's so interesting because, having had now twenty four

273
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:36,800
Speaker 2: hours to reflect on the verdicts, I'm actually I'm actually

274
00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,160
Speaker 2: very much like they aren't the charges I would have

275
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:46,520
Speaker 2: wished he was facing. But I do think the amount

276
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,400
Speaker 2: of time he's going to be spending in prison, which

277
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,760
Speaker 2: will be at least another year beyond the nine months

278
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:57,240
Speaker 2: he's already served, I think it would be safe to say,

279
00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,280
Speaker 2: and maybe even a little bit more, you know, say

280
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 2: he gets another even two years. There needed to be

281
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,320
Speaker 2: some sort of consequence and punishment for what he did.

282
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,640
Speaker 2: I don't know what his time would have been behind bars,

283
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,920
Speaker 2: to be honest, I don't know what state charges of

284
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,120
Speaker 2: assault and domestic violence, and I don't think it ever

285
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,920
Speaker 2: rose to the level of attempted murder, but certainly these

286
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,680
Speaker 2: were serious violent crimes. I don't know what kind of

287
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,960
Speaker 2: time he would have been looking at from that kind

288
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:30,760
Speaker 2: of a charge, but he he needs to be behind bars.

289
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,120
Speaker 2: He is a dangerous, violent person who needs to pay

290
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:36,800
Speaker 2: for his crimes. Without a doubt, I just don't love

291
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,160
Speaker 2: what he was charged with, and I don't love what

292
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,680
Speaker 2: he was convicted with, but I'm okay with the ultimate

293
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,440
Speaker 2: end of it, with the result of it. I guess

294
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,120
Speaker 2: that he's behind bars for a couple of years.

295
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,840
Speaker 1: And you just explained the whole in one sentence. There

296
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:55,000
Speaker 1: what being torn and this thing means to be happy

297
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:59,160
Speaker 1: he's going to jail, to be happy with the verdict,

298
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,520
Speaker 1: but be unhappy they was charged with this in the

299
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,119
Speaker 1: first place, to be unhappy that he's not going to

300
00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,119
Speaker 1: jail for longer for doing what we all saw him do.

301
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,920
Speaker 2: It's so who's responsible? I mean, the prosecution has to

302
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:14,880
Speaker 2: bear a lot of that responsibility.

303
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,640
Speaker 3: And the question is, now that we've seen what happened in.

304
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:24,000
Speaker 2: Court, will prosecutors, will federal prosecutors, even state and local

305
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:25,760
Speaker 2: dace will they take notes from this case?

306
00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,360
Speaker 3: Will they say, hey, let's actually.

307
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:34,040
Speaker 2: Just understand the jurors are smart, real people who get it,

308
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,520
Speaker 2: and they understand when we're trumping up charges or we're

309
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,280
Speaker 2: creating charges to try and get around something.

310
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,320
Speaker 3: To not actually.

311
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,160
Speaker 2: Charge people with what they with the crimes they committed.

312
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,359
Speaker 2: That would just go a long way. I think people

313
00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,960
Speaker 2: are afraid to do politicians and obviously a lot of

314
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,960
Speaker 2: these folks are elected officials. But isn't that our biggest complaint.

315
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,600
Speaker 2: They aren't transparent. They don't say I'm sorry, they don't

316
00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:57,639
Speaker 2: say what actually is.

317
00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:58,680
Speaker 3: They try to create the.

318
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,959
Speaker 2: Smoke and mirror show, and it kind of treats all

319
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:02,920
Speaker 2: of us like we're stupid. And I feel like that's

320
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,520
Speaker 2: kind of a little bit what happened.

321
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:09,679
Speaker 1: Here, And apparently twelve people said, hey, we can't be

322
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:14,119
Speaker 1: fooled by it. That's I don't know. I just I

323
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,680
Speaker 1: hate that the conversation is going towards this idea, which

324
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,240
Speaker 1: is a legitimate one, that this was a loss for women,

325
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:24,320
Speaker 1: that this is once again a man getting away with

326
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,720
Speaker 1: crimes he committed. On the other hand, as an argument,

327
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,200
Speaker 1: he wasn't charged for the actual trial and we saw

328
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:36,320
Speaker 1: him commit. And somewhere in the middle there is this

329
00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:41,800
Speaker 1: racketeering and this sex trafficking that is just hard, certainly

330
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:46,800
Speaker 1: for twelve jurors to reconcile. When I see a domestic abuser,

331
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,679
Speaker 1: I don't know how he translates to the CEO of

332
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,000
Speaker 1: a criminal enterprise.

333
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,480
Speaker 3: You just nailed it and that's why we're torn.

334
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,520
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, it does feel

335
00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,320
Speaker 2: like some justice was served and just curious, Hey, if

336
00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,520
Speaker 2: you guys want to jump on Amy and TJ podcast

337
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,600
Speaker 2: our Instagram page, we would love to hear where you

338
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,760
Speaker 2: all land on this and how you feel about the

339
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,200
Speaker 2: verdict and wondering if you're just as torn as we are.

340
00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,320
Speaker 3: But we appreciate you listening.

341
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,240
Speaker 2: As always, I'm Amy roboch On behalf of my partner

342
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:19,440
Speaker 2: t J.

343
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 3: Holmes. We hope you have a wonderful day and a

344
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,320
Speaker 3: wonderful holiday on the fourth of July tomorrow