1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: Hey, it is both time for a classic episode and 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: it is the start of our season of folloween programming. Uh. 3 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,480 Speaker 1: There was recently a loss in the Disney family. Imagineer 4 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: ex Atencio, who had a hand in many of the 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 1: projects in the Disney Parks and really impacted the magic 6 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 1: that lives there in many ways, recently died. So to 7 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: owner him and remember him, We're going to air our 8 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: two episodes about the development and building of Disneyland's Haunted Mansion. 9 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: Katy's will appear over this Saturday and next Saturday. And 10 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,959 Speaker 1: one quick note. When we recorded this episode, a lot 11 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: of Holly's research was from the original edition of the 12 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: book about the mansion's history by Jason Serell, and that 13 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: one had a little error in it. Initially, Evergreen House 14 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 1: in Baltimore was cited as the architectural inspiration for Disneyland's 15 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: Haunted Mansion, but it's actually the Shipley Ladaker House, also 16 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: in Baltimore that sparked the design, So keep that in 17 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: mind as you listen, and now take a little trip 18 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: to disney Land with us. Welcome to you stuff you 19 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: missed in history class from how Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, 20 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy B. Wilson, and 21 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: today we are talking about subject admittedly very near and 22 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: dear to my heart and one that I think it 23 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: might startle people initially to think about. It is a 24 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: history item't but it really has quite a fascinating history 25 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: all of its own. And that is Disneyland's Haunted Mansion. 26 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: Where those of you at home, which is everyone, maybe 27 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: not they might be on the go maybe, so why 28 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: people who are not here in the room with us, 29 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: which is everyone but you and me and our producer 30 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: Noel Uh. Holly has on a Haunted Mansion T shirt. 31 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: I do. I have a my hauntamasioned shirt, have my 32 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: Haunt imasioned ring. I really love the Honey Mansion. My 33 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: house has a lot of Honey Mansion. Theming um and 34 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: it is one of those things that when you read 35 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: about the history of how this project came to fruition, 36 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: it's a little bit enlightening, uh and it's uh it 37 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: sort of creates for me, I know, kind of a 38 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: lens through which viewing like some of the trials and 39 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: tribulations that happened in like anyone's modern day to day 40 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: work life, and kind of a different way and it 41 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: gives a perspective of like, no, everybody has these issues, 42 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: you know, like if you have a project that's taking forever, 43 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: if you have like a thing that you want to 44 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: do but you get excited and then it gets put 45 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: away and it never comes to fruition. Those things happen 46 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: all the time to everybody. And I think, uh, you know, 47 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: we don't because the Disney Company has become so huge, 48 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: we don't think about that ever having happened in the 49 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: context of Disney, but in fact, it was happening all 50 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: the time. Well, and I also love this story because 51 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: of like the historic visual effect techniques that were used 52 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: and how many of them still hold up and are 53 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: in used today. So uh, for younger listeners, it's probably 54 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: really easy to think about Disneyland and Walt Disney World 55 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: as places that have been around forever, but they really haven't. Uh. 56 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: Disneyland has only been around since the nineteen fifties and 57 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: Disney World open in the early nineteen seventies, but the 58 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: ideas for those parks go back quite a bit further. 59 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: One of the iconic attractions at all Disney parks is 60 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: the Haunted Mansion, and as any Disney file will tell 61 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: you each attraction in the parks has its own story, 62 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: but the Haunted Mansion's history is particularly steeped in legends, 63 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: partly because of the supernatural theming, which leads to all 64 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: kinds of ghost stories and horror. Yeah, and as I 65 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: was saying earlier, the story of Disneyland and the development 66 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: of the mansion is also a really good one to 67 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: look at because it showcases how, um, you know, even 68 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: great success has a lot of failure along the way. 69 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: I think, um, you know, all Disney has become so 70 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: legend legendary as a visionary that a lot of the 71 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: struggles that his projects went through, and a lot of 72 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: the struggles that he went through trying to get things done, Uh, 73 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: they get glossed over or they get overlooked completely, but 74 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: he had a lot of bumpy rides, and regardless of 75 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: whether you view him and the Disney Company in a 76 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: positive or negative light, And that's like almost could be 77 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: a podcast on its own, because there are people it's 78 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: very polarizing for some people. But the sheer number of 79 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: achievements that he managed in his life is really impressive. 80 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: But when you actually look at how it all happened, 81 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: a lot of the stories of that great success. They 82 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: have nothing to do with luck or you know, blind 83 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 1: good fortune. They're really like the result of hard work 84 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: and perseverance and really pushing through, which I think is 85 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: important to remember because again it's become such a huge company, 86 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: we think of it as just being a powerful entity, 87 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: and we forget that it there were baby steps in 88 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: the beginning. Well, for many people alive today, Disney has 89 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: always been a juggernaut. For the entirety of their existence 90 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: was not always each other, not no, not at all, 91 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: And even the project of the Hunted Mansion had many 92 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: stops and starts, uh, both with them without Walt. So 93 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: we're gonna first started off by talking about a quick 94 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 1: overview of kind of the birth of Disneyland. In nineteen 95 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 1: fifty one, Disney had an idea for a park to 96 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: give families something to do to get together in southern California. 97 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 1: His first plan was to make a park in Burbank, 98 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: across the street from the Disney studios. Even in the 99 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: first series of concepts sketches that Walt asked director Harper 100 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: Goff to do, there was always a haunted house and 101 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: all of them. And it first started as a part 102 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: of a group that also had a church in a graveyard, 103 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: and on December sixteenth of ninety two, Walt Disney Incorporated 104 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: was founded by Disney to build the park. UH. The 105 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: name changed almost immediately to W E. D Enterprises. UH. 106 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: Some people will say WED and the w E D 107 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,359 Speaker 1: stands for Alter Elias Disney, but today we actually know 108 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: that entity as the as Walt Disney Imagineering. So it 109 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 1: went through a few name changes, but it originally started 110 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: in to build Disneyland. UH. And that new company was 111 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: actually staffed up with a lot of the artists and 112 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: the visionaries from Walt's movie studio, even though they had 113 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: not worked on a theme park before. UH. And that 114 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: higher to bring in movie industry people and animators may 115 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: seem odd when you think about it, but Walt's whole 116 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 1: idea was that they were going to be telling stories 117 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: in three dimensions instead of two, and since story was 118 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: always going to be the focus, professional storytellers, to him, 119 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: seemed like the exact right people for these jobs. These 120 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: ideas quickly became way too big for the eleven acre 121 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 1: plot of land that he initially had in mind, so 122 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: the focus shifted to Los Angeles in three, Walt hired 123 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: the Stanford Research Institute to survey Los Angeles and the 124 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: surrounding area for a hundred acre site that would be 125 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: suitable for what he in the W E. D Team 126 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: had in mind. And that's how they found Disneyland's home. 127 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: It was a hundred and sixty acre Orange Grove and 128 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: Anaheim and this location met all of Waltz requirements. It 129 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: had to be freeway accessible, adjacent to or within Los 130 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: Angeles and affordable. Yeah. And you know, nowadays, the Disney 131 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: Company is huge. That is so huge that it's really 132 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: hard for most people and even me to think about 133 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: it ever having shallow pockets. But at the time, it 134 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: was a very different story. Uh. You know, Walt was 135 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: really struggling to figure out how he was going to 136 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: finance this huge vision of his and to build a 137 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: theme park. And it actually led to the genesis of 138 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: the television series Walt Disney's Disneyland. Uh. That show came 139 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: out of the need for funding and Walt struck a 140 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: deal with ABC in nineteen fifty four that he would 141 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: for post for them this hour long weekly series which 142 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: was about Disneyland and also about sort of um, you know, exploration, 143 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: concepts in society and technology and storytelling. Uh. And in 144 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: exchange for him hosting this, ABC was funding the construction 145 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: of the theme park project. And just as a side note, 146 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: ABC eventually became part of the Disney Company UM decades 147 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: down the road. So the partnership to start in the 148 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: fifties but went on for a long time and now 149 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: the same thing. They're all together. So once the funding 150 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: and location were secured, construction started and went on at 151 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: a really breakneck pace. They broke ground on July nineteen 152 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 1: fifty four, and just a year later, on July fifteenth, 153 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: ninety five, Disneyland opened to the public. It cost an 154 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: estimated seventeen million dollars to build, which may not it 155 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: sounds like a lot, but I think nowadays if a 156 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: similar project were built, it would be in the billions 157 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: and billions. Yeah, that was seventeen million, nineteen fifty five dollar, 158 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 1: so it was a lot of money. Uh. And opening 159 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: day any account you read of it, it sounds insane. Uh. 160 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: There was so much anticipation leading up to the opening 161 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: of the park because Disney at this point had a 162 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,719 Speaker 1: successful animation studio. He had already made a name for 163 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: himself in terms of entertainment. Uh. And so many people 164 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: were so excited at this thought of an entire park 165 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 1: devoted to this concept of you know, storytelling and animation 166 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: that they were even using counterfeit tickets to get in. 167 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,599 Speaker 1: The park was overcrowded, way past probably what was a 168 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: smart capacity. The temperature was a problem. They were in 169 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: the middle of a heat wave in California and it 170 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: was a hundred and ten degrees fahrenheit. Uh. And on 171 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: top of it being super hot, there was a plumber 172 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: strike going on, so not all of the water fountains 173 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: had been hooked up, so people couldn't get a quick 174 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: drink of water to help deal with the heat. UM. 175 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 1: And there was fresh asphalt h that had been poured 176 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: as late as the night before the park open and 177 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: it hadn't all properly because of the heat conditions, and 178 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: so there are stories of people's shoes sinking into the 179 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: asphalts because it had this weird rubbery texture to it, 180 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: but it was sticky. But even though uh, it was 181 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: a bumpy opening day and was super overcrowded, and a 182 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: few weeks after it things were still a little bit crazy, 183 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: but the problems got ironed out and things picked up, 184 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: and pretty quickly the park became really really popular. But 185 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: if you look at a map from those first days, 186 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: you'll see that New Orleans Square, which is the area 187 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: where the hind Mansion lives, is not there. That spot 188 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 1: on the map is blank. So even though Walt had 189 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: been interested in the Haunted House from the absolute earliest 190 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 1: meetings with Harper Golf, it wasn't part of the initial launch, 191 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: and it wasn't long before Walt's mind turned back to 192 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: the Haunted House that had been part of the Disneyland 193 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: original plan. Yeah, once the park did get past those 194 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 1: initial bumps, it really became apparent that it was going 195 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: to have to expand quickly to meet demand. Uh, and 196 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: so Walt went right back to that Haunted House idea. 197 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: In ninety seven, Walt put a studio animator named Ken 198 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: Anderson in charge of the project. Because Ken had worked 199 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: on Mr. Toad's Wild Ride and Snow White Scary Adventures, 200 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: which are both kind of so called dark rides because 201 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: they have a lot of low light trickery and effects, 202 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: he was the natural choice to helm the haunting of 203 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: what would soon become the New Orleans Square section of 204 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: the park, and While Ken was working on research for 205 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: this project, Walt uh went public with the news of 206 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: the expansion. He talked about all of the things they 207 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: were going to add to this new New Orleans Square area, 208 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: and he even told a BBC interviewer in that he 209 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: was building a retirement home for ghosts who may have 210 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: been displaced from their original haunts during the war. So 211 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: he was kind of trying to contextualize the concept to 212 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: um being as he was in Great Britain at the 213 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: time and say, no, you know, all the bombings and everything, 214 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:03,680 Speaker 1: there are lots of ghost sit down the place to go. 215 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: I'm building them a place to go. Just kind of 216 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: silly and odd. Yeah, I don't know how I would 217 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,679 Speaker 1: feel about that if I were living in Britain. I 218 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: don't know how I would feel about it if I 219 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 1: were the interviewer either, right, like, wait, you're doing what 220 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 1: but you know, let's talk about Hogwarts again. What if 221 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: something happened to Hogwarts? Where would all those ghosts? Yeah, So, 222 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: while kept detailing his plans for a park expansion with 223 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: various news outlets, including shops and restaurants that would join 224 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 1: the Haunted House in this newly defined area of the Park, 225 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: and Ken kept looking for design inspirations. So they knew 226 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 1: from the outset that they wanted to have this kind 227 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: of Old South feel to the area that would become 228 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,319 Speaker 1: New Orleans Square, and so Anderson sought out Louisiana plantation 229 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 1: houses for design inspiration. Uh. You know, they knew they 230 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: wanted this Antebellum look. But it turned out that the 231 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: house that really sort of provided the most inspiration for um, 232 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 1: the Haunted mansion that's in Disneyland. Other ones have different 233 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: architectural styles. Uh. It was actually a house that is 234 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: on North Charles Street in Baltimore, Maryland, called the Evergreen House. 235 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: And this is a house that had been bequeathed to 236 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: Johns Hopkins University in two uh, and it really did 237 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: provide the picture perfect image of what Anderson and Disney 238 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: had in mind. And the Disneyland Haunted Mansion bears a 239 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: really strong resemblance to the Evergreen House in all artists 240 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: concept sketches from the house up to the house was 241 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: dilapidated and broken down with this sort of overgrown, unkempt landscape, 242 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: which is really what you would probably expect for a 243 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: haunted house. But this approach really didn't go over well 244 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: with Walt. He couldn't reconcile having this broken down house 245 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: in any kind of style settled within the otherwise christine 246 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: surroundings of Disneyland. So there's a now famous quote, which 247 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: I also find so charming. This is from Walt, and 248 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,559 Speaker 1: he said, we'll take care of the outside and let 249 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: the ghosts take care of the inside. Uh So, no 250 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: matter how haunted the house was going to be, he 251 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: was pretty insistent that I have a perfectly groomed exterior, 252 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: and there was disagreement about it. But rather than dig 253 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: in on this issue of the exterior design, Kenny Anderson 254 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: just figured he would move over and focus on interior 255 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: for a while and they would kind of table that discussion. 256 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: And I'm sure it will come as a surprise to 257 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: none of our listeners to hear that one of the 258 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: major inspirations for the Haunted Mansion was the Winchester Mystery House. Uh. 259 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: Anderson had actually toured the Winchester House in San Jose 260 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: on a weekend getaway while this issue of pristine versus 261 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: ramshackle exterior had been debated, and you know, almost immediately 262 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: upon the tour, uh he realized that this was really 263 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: what the inside of their Haunted Mansion should kind of 264 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: look like. With these ideas of rooms that don't go 265 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: places and architecture that doesn't always makes sense together because 266 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: as we know, the Winchester House was built by Mrs 267 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: Winchester constantly under construction in an effort to confuse spirits 268 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: that might be angry about the Winchester family fortune coming 269 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: from weapons that had killed them. So that's an interesting house. 270 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: If anybody has not been there, I highly recommend the 271 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: Winchester House. So we have an episode on it. We do, uh, 272 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: and it is really clear if you've been to the 273 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: Haunted Mansion that there's a link there stylistically. So let's 274 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: get back to the Haunted Mansion. Yeah. True to this 275 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: initial concept that the theme park was going to be 276 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: a way to just tell stories in three dimensions, the 277 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: Haunted Mansion had to have a compelling story to go 278 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: in the attraction. But it took a few hits and 279 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: missus on this whole story to wind up with what 280 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: guests are familiar with today, and even the ones that 281 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: we're about to talk about are not really what guests 282 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: are familiar with today. It took a lot what what 283 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: are guests familiar with today if people have never gone, 284 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: are we going to talk about it? Then we'll kind 285 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: of get there at the end. We won't dig too 286 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: deep into that because you know, we've got to experience. 287 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: It's super fun. Well but uh, but we will talk 288 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: in a bit about how things kind of ended up 289 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: having to change. So some of the discarded stories are 290 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: really fun though. So Kenna Anderson, bless him, was just 291 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: working his tail off. He first put together a story 292 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: treatment that featured It was all centered around this sea 293 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: captain named Captain Bartholome you Gore, and it was a 294 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: walkthrough tour that was led by George Butler Beauregard. And 295 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: this story centered on the captain, who in some versions 296 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: and in some notes um has the name Gideon Gorlea 297 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: and then earned the nickname of Gore through his behavior 298 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: because in these he brought his bride Priscilla to the mansion. 299 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: But Priscilla was apparently a curious lass and in this 300 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: version him that Anderson cooked up. Her curiosity was her undoing. 301 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: She foolishly opened this chest that she found in the 302 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 1: attic and discovered that her beloved husband was in flat. 303 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 1: In fact, Black Bart the pirate. Uh. And after she 304 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: makes this discovery and has this revelation, she vanished. Uh. 305 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: So in some versions of the story, poor Priscilla is 306 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: bricked into the cellar by her husband, sort of cask 307 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: of a Monteato style if you've read that a Grand 308 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: Poe uh short story. And in other versions that Anderson 309 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: worked on, she was either locked into a c chest 310 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: or thrown down a well. Uh. And her haunting of 311 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: the captain in this story uh in this plot line 312 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: led him to hang himself in the house's rafters. And 313 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: so all of this is part of what makes the 314 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: Haunting of the Haunted House. The second version, which was 315 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: also put together by Ken Anderson, featured this storyline that 316 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: was intended to really draw guests in by marrying the 317 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: real world with the mythology. And in this version, the 318 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: tour guide would explain to guests that the Disney Company 319 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: had moved an entire plantation mansion, which was blood mere manner, 320 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: to Disneylands to create an authentic centerpiece for New Orleans Square, 321 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: but trickster spirits were forever wreaking havoc on the restoration 322 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 1: of the house. Also featured in this tale was a 323 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: deceased construction worker who haunted the site, which was abandoned 324 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 1: after his untimely death. That one didn't hit either. Back 325 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: to the drawing board, and Anderson did a third approach, 326 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: and this one was really a much lighter approach to 327 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 1: the whole thing. It actually featured Walt Disney himself acting 328 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: as a tour guide via prerecorded tape segments, and he 329 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: was leading guests to a ghost wedding, so it was 330 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: so much simpler storyline. But that way they could incorporate 331 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: lots of ghosts without having to work up lots of 332 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 1: backstory for each of them, because they were all just 333 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: attendants at this wedding. His fourth story idea took its 334 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: inspiration from the nine nine Disney animated feature The Adventures 335 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: of Ichabod and Mr Toad. The second part of the 336 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: film was an adaptation of the legend of Sleepy Hollow, 337 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: and Anderson thought the story needed to have the headless 338 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: horseman provide sort of fertile ground for this haunted mansion storyline, 339 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: So a great deal of this treatment involved using folly 340 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: effects to create the sound of the horseman's hoof beats 341 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: following guests along their tour I'm imagining it like Monty 342 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: Python would not be funny or would not be scary. 343 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 1: It would be very silly. Well that's scary, and silly 344 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: comes up yes later on. So the wedding concept was 345 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: also there, and this idea and the guests were famous 346 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: monsters like Frankenstein's Monster and Dracula. The bride Mademoiselle Vampire 347 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: would get a case of the jitters, not sure whether 348 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: she wanted to marry most of your boogeyman, and just 349 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: as the chaos was reaching a fever pitch, a tour 350 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,479 Speaker 1: guide would escort the park guests outside to safety. And 351 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: this fourth version of the story was the one that 352 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: was approved to go forward, although if you are a 353 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: fan of the attraction, you will note that that is 354 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: not the story you see on the rind. No. Uh, 355 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: there's a part of me that wishes we could go 356 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: to an alternate history and see that version because it 357 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 1: sounds really fun. They're just picturing this panicky vampire bride. 358 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 1: Uh and allegedly, uh the escape was going to be 359 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: through one of the fireplaces, which could have been a 360 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: potentially really cool effect. Uh. Almost from the moment that 361 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: Walt decided to expand Disneyland and build the Haunted Mansion. 362 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: He had designers working on ideas for the detail elements 363 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: of the attraction, while Ken Anderson focused on the structural design. Yeah, 364 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 1: he had had lots of concept sketches being made throughout 365 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: and as all of these different storylines were being put together, 366 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,239 Speaker 1: some of them were getting sketch treatments. But as they 367 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: were settling on this fourth storyline of the wedding UH 368 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: in nine, Walt put together what became a really famous 369 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: chwoan team that generated many of the effects and moments 370 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: that really make the Haunted Mansion a crowd favorite even today. 371 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: Yale Gracie was a background on artist and model builder, 372 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: and Rolely Crump, which is a nickname for Roland, had 373 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: been working at the studios as an in between her. 374 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: Crump had this fondness for creating kinetic sculpture, so odd 375 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: mobiles and other kind of pieces of moving art. I 376 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: love those, by the way, and the story goes that 377 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: Walt thought these two had just the right crossover of 378 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: interests to make an ideal pairing to create the illusions 379 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,239 Speaker 1: that a Haunted House attraction would need. And uh this 380 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: pair of artists spent basically all of n hold up together. 381 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,719 Speaker 1: They were in on one floor of a building just 382 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: reading ghost stories. They were testing out illusions that they 383 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: were coming up with together. And when Crump talks about it, 384 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: he routinely credits Gracie as being like the idea man, 385 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: and then he would start to embellish and expand on them, 386 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: and they would refine all of this together. So it 387 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: sounded like it was. It really was a very fruitful 388 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: and pretty enjoyable pairing. I think that's clear from the 389 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: story we're about to tell. The pair became really really 390 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: well known for their fantastical exploits and um for their prankishness. Yeah, 391 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: and Jason Cerell's book about the Haunted Mansion's history, Rolly 392 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: Crump tells the story of an incident that was created 393 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:21,199 Speaker 1: by all of this experimenting combined with with pranking. Yale 394 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: had all his ghosts and magic strewn throughout the room. 395 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: Once we got a call from personnel asking us to 396 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: leave the lights on because the janitors didn't want to 397 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: come in if it was dark. Well, we did, but 398 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: we rigged the room. We put in an infrared meme 399 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: and when it was tripped, the room went to black 400 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 1: light and all the ghost effects came on. When we 401 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 1: came in the next morning, all the effects were still running, 402 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: and there was a broom in the center of the floor. 403 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 1: Personnel called and said, you'll have to clean your own 404 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: room because the janitors won't go in there anymore. Those 405 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: rotten boys. It is so like the pranks you would expect, 406 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: like a t and age kid. So one of the 407 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: interesting things, UH and historically significant things about the work 408 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: that Gracie and Crump were doing together is that even 409 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 1: though they were put together to create cutting edge effects, 410 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: most of the tricks that they were employing were really 411 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 1: really old school. They both had an interest in magic tricks, 412 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 1: and they used a lot of tricks that had been 413 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 1: part of magic shows and theatrical sleight of hand for decades, 414 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: including the illusion that is known as Pepper's Ghost, which 415 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: is from the mid eighteen hundreds, and that's a setup 416 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 1: where action that is taking place in an unseen area 417 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: UH that the audience can't see, is reflected off a 418 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,360 Speaker 1: pane of glass that they can see, and it creates 419 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 1: this look of translucent, floating images that look like ghosts. 420 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: And they used that and that's still used in the 421 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: Hounty mansion today, like a lot of the ghosts that 422 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: you see are doing the Pepper's Ghost illusion. The year 423 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 1: that Roally Crump and Yale Gracie spent together in nineteen 424 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 1: fifty nine culminated in the demo show, where they displayed 425 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: a presentation of a version of the whole attraction. And 426 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: the demo was a huge hodgepodge of tricks and ideas, 427 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: and even though they were working with Anderson's fourth story 428 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: plan involving the Ghoulish Wedding, they had brought in some 429 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: elements from the abandoned plots as well, including the Sea Captain. Uh. 430 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: The Sea captain Is illusion is one that's talked about 431 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: a lot. This illusion that the pair created involved a 432 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: rain soaked ghost showing up there was water, there was 433 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: a flooding effect in the room, The Captain's doomed bride 434 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: would materialize, and the water would then recede and leave 435 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 1: only these unearthly blobs of moisture behind it. And it 436 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,120 Speaker 1: is one of those super famous, often spoken of moments 437 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: that the people who witnessed it will still in interviews 438 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: kind of wax rhapsodic about it and how it was 439 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: one of the most amazing things they have ever seen 440 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:57,199 Speaker 1: in their lives. Um, and with that, we're actually going 441 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: to cliffhang you a little bit. The haunting mention is rich, 442 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: so we are taking to episodes is rich and and 443 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: the moment of that we're pausing. There's kind of its 444 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: own cliffhanger. This whole thing got tabled for a little while. Yeah, 445 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: and we'll talk about how that all came to be, 446 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: uh in our next episode, which is a travel up. Hey. 447 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: Since uh, these episodes that we're sharing our past classics, 448 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: we have some updated information that will supersede the contact 449 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: stuff you've heard before. If you want to email us, 450 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: our email address is History Podcast at how stuff works 451 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: dot com, and you can find us across the spectrum 452 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: of social media as Missed in History. You can also 453 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: find us at missed in History dot com, and you 454 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: can visit our parent company, how stuff Works at how 455 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com for more on this and thousands 456 00:25:52,800 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 1: of other topics because it how staff works dot com.