Speaker 1: A word of warning that today's episode contains descriptions of violence.
Speaker 1: Please take care when listening.
Speaker 2: Hi, how are you doing good?
Speaker 3: I left you like four or five messages?
Speaker 2: Busy day, busy day.
Speaker 3: Do you remember on the Dukes of Hazzard there was
Speaker 3: the sheriff. Do you remember what his name was? Roscoe P. Coltrane.
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 3: I remember it was Roscoe. Do you remember what the
Speaker 3: peace stood for?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: Was it Philip? Oh? My god, no, she's not.
Speaker 4: How do you know I was lying? How did you
Speaker 4: know why I was lying?
Speaker 3: You sounded too loving.
Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is heavyweight today's episode the
Speaker 1: Budget Motel. Right after the break, Nick tells me he
Speaker 1: doesn't consider himself to be a writer. He works as
Speaker 1: a landscaper, but several years ago he felt compelled to
Speaker 1: write about an event that derailed his life. The story's
Speaker 1: title What It's Like to Be Shot. Thirty years ago,
Speaker 1: Nick was shot in the stomach by a coworker, a
Speaker 1: guy named Andy. Nick was twenty one years old, and
Speaker 1: ever since that day he's continued to tell versions of
Speaker 1: what happened. In his twenties, it was a good story
Speaker 1: to tell in a bar.
Speaker 2: Packaged in a way to impress girls.
Speaker 1: In his thirties, it became a kind of flex, something
Speaker 1: to give him that tough guy quality he lacked compared
Speaker 1: to the hunters and brawlers he grew up with in Idaho.
Speaker 1: In his forties, he honed the story to the written version.
Speaker 1: I like Nick's writing so much, asked him if he'd
Speaker 1: read the story aloud.
Speaker 3: To me, Would you mind reading it?
Speaker 2: You want me to just start from the beginning, could you? Yeah?
Speaker 1: It all begins with Nick and his coworker Andy and Burley, Idaho.
Speaker 1: They were there for an out of town irrigation contract.
Speaker 1: Andy was originally from Burley, and so we invited some
Speaker 1: high school friends over to drink beer in the room
Speaker 1: he and Nick were sharing at the budget motel. I'll
Speaker 1: let Nick take it from here.
Speaker 2: The guys had brought in a nine millimeter automatic for
Speaker 2: show and tell. I wouldn't have been surprised if it
Speaker 2: was in fact stolen or purchased illegally. I wasn't particularly
Speaker 2: curious about the weapon, having had my share of firearms
Speaker 2: fund growing up in Pocatel. We littered the sagebrush hills
Speaker 2: with spent casings. I remember sitting on the edge of
Speaker 2: the motel bed across Andy. Andy's eyes were on the gun,
Speaker 2: but not downrange. I was downrange. Andy dropped the magazine,
Speaker 2: charged the slider. It's cool to charge a handgun. It
Speaker 2: makes a cool sound and it feels good, and about
Speaker 2: to dry fire, but had not checked the chamber. I
Speaker 2: leaned to the left, about to say, dude, don't point
Speaker 2: that thing at me. Dude, damn. My first thought was,
Speaker 2: damn it. We were so fired. The gun has gone
Speaker 2: off in our room. I looked down toward my lap
Speaker 2: and noticed the whistle of smoke coming from the torn
Speaker 2: hole in the belt line of my pants. I reached
Speaker 2: around with my left hand and felt a wet spot
Speaker 2: in the small on my back. Holy fucking shit, I've
Speaker 2: just been shot in and out right fucking through me.
Speaker 2: Holy shit. Noting the proximity of the wet spot to
Speaker 2: my spine, I quickly stood up to see if my
Speaker 2: legs worked. They did, and he rushed the gun over
Speaker 2: to Israel, who had brought it. Say you did it, man.
Speaker 2: Israel quickly took a knee in front of me, trying
Speaker 2: to get me to hold the weapon. Dude, say you
Speaker 2: shot yourself. Fucking Call nine one.
Speaker 5: One.
Speaker 2: The police report, written by one of what Burly considered
Speaker 2: their finest, says that I reported the wound accidentally self
Speaker 2: inflicted upon his arrival. I remember saying I've been shot.
Speaker 2: It was an accident, as the cop casually strolled in
Speaker 2: with a stupid board look on his face. A lot
Speaker 2: of the actual agony is beyond memory. I can remember
Speaker 2: what the pain led me to think, Okay, if this
Speaker 2: is the end, let's get it over already. Bring on
Speaker 2: the dark fade or the bright light. There was no
Speaker 2: fear of death, only the impatient anticipation of relief. I
Speaker 2: was bawling and blubbering, like a toddler that had fallen
Speaker 2: off a swing. Every story I'd read of soldiers slowly
Speaker 2: dying on battlefields crying out for their mothers made sense.
Speaker 2: There is a very real need for mommy that supersedes
Speaker 2: any macho imprinting. At this level of helplessness, my pleas
Speaker 2: for morphine were denied. Instead, I was impaled with a
Speaker 2: catheter in my urethra and an NG tube into my
Speaker 2: nose and down my throat. Somewhere I found in myself
Speaker 2: a cooperative attitude toward these brutes. I even reported the
Speaker 2: fact I was wearing contact lenses. As they rubbed the
Speaker 2: orange gue on my belly and shaved my pubic hair.
Speaker 2: They plucked out the lenses before I got wheeled into
Speaker 2: the or. Everything suddenly got calmer there. My only company
Speaker 2: was a gentle voice man who said, I'm doctor Lowell Feinstein.
Speaker 2: I'll be your nfcesiologist. Just breathe into this. The nurses
Speaker 2: in ICU took an icy tone with me. They weren't
Speaker 2: going to mommy, some young man and with gunshot wounds
Speaker 2: who probably had a coming. I did get a sarcastic ah,
Speaker 2: poor baby when I cried during my first wound. A breadment.
Speaker 2: That was the daily routine of stuffing ribbons of cotton
Speaker 2: gauze into the boltholes with a long swab. Twice a day.
Speaker 2: They'd pull out the gauze along with all the dead
Speaker 2: tissue dried to it, then stuff new gauze in and
Speaker 2: I got used to it and it became less painful.
Speaker 2: As with most gross things about your body, you eventually
Speaker 2: come to enjoy it, kind of like picking your nose.
Speaker 2: The first visitor was a blurry image, not because of
Speaker 2: the meds, but because of the earlier foolishness of having
Speaker 2: my contacts removed before surgery. It's my dad who is here.
Speaker 2: I make a crack to bring levity to the ICU,
Speaker 2: something quick from a Western Maybe they got me pa.
Speaker 1: There are only tears, and here with his father's tears.
Speaker 1: Is how Nick has always ended the story, a cut
Speaker 1: down hero being wept over by his dad. But now
Speaker 1: that he's in his fifties, Nick doesn't see himself as
Speaker 1: the hero of this story at all. Instead, he sees
Speaker 1: someone else as the true hero of that day. It's
Speaker 1: not Andy or his friend Israel. They mostly seemed concerned
Speaker 1: with not getting in trouble, and I didn't hear a
Speaker 1: word from them since that day. You know, there was
Speaker 1: no visit in the hospital.
Speaker 2: No, if I had accidentally shot somebody, I would have
Speaker 2: been beside myself with apology and just begging forgiveness. But
Speaker 2: I didn't hear a thing from those guys. I didn't
Speaker 2: hear a thing from those guys either. I reached out
Speaker 2: to both Andy and Israel to get their version of
Speaker 2: the story, but never heard back. The cops were indifferent,
Speaker 2: the hospital workers coldly efficient. Nick felt alone and angry
Speaker 2: he'd been blamed for his own injury and then abandoned.
Speaker 2: No one actually cared about what he was going through
Speaker 2: at all, with the exception of one person, a friend
Speaker 2: of Andy's whose name Nick never even caught, but who
Speaker 2: he refers to as the kid. I didn't know this kid.
Speaker 2: He was just in the periphery of everybody that was
Speaker 2: hanging out. So all of a sudden, I'm shot. I
Speaker 2: can just see this kid's face and he's crying, and
Speaker 2: he's looking down at me, and he's asking if there's
Speaker 2: anything he can do, like get me a towel or something.
Speaker 2: The looks on other people's faces was one of detachment
Speaker 2: and coal, like they were looking at a squirrel hitting
Speaker 2: the road or something. And he was the one that
Speaker 2: you could just tell he was legitimately scared, not about
Speaker 2: getting in trouble, but for me.
Speaker 1: And you're able to in that moment, you were able
Speaker 1: to read all of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, I don't know. I think everything slows
Speaker 2: down to where, you know, some things are sparkling clear. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Like if you've ever been in a car accident or whatever,
Speaker 2: everything seems to go in slow motion. And I just
Speaker 2: that's the thing that still sticks with me, is somebody
Speaker 2: you know, just as scared as I was.
Speaker 1: A kind look a towel, not exactly Superman level of heroism,
Speaker 1: but Nick consists that because the gestures came at one
Speaker 1: of the scariest moments of his life, and because everyone
Speaker 1: else was offering nothing, this is something, even though it
Speaker 1: was a small something, felt like a lot.
Speaker 2: And so in that moment, him and I were not strangers.
Speaker 2: It's a feeling like I don't want to die alone,
Speaker 2: and here's one person that's not a stranger.
Speaker 1: And so thirty years later, what Nick wants is to
Speaker 1: find that kid, that sympathetic kid who cried and offered
Speaker 1: him a towel, and simply thank him. But where the
Speaker 1: search takes us is somewhere neither Nick nor I could
Speaker 1: have anticipated. So we're going to do it. Okay, wow, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're going to try to find this kid. I think
Speaker 1: after the break, we try to find this kid. I think, Hello,
Speaker 1: do you hear me? I can now more importantly, can
Speaker 1: you see me?
Speaker 2: I can't see you?
Speaker 3: Okay, it's not more important.
Speaker 1: Really, I asked Nick to check in over video because
Speaker 1: I have some news. In order to get the name
Speaker 1: of the sympathetic kid, I contacted the Sheriff's Department and
Speaker 1: got the police report from the day Nick was shot.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, so I wanted to share it with you.
Speaker 1: Nick's not seen the report since the shooting happened thirty
Speaker 1: years ago. I send it over and once again, Nick
Speaker 1: reads an account of the day, but this time from
Speaker 1: the perspective of the police officer on duty.
Speaker 2: On the above date, I was sent to the Budget
Speaker 2: motel room for thirty seven in reference to a subject
Speaker 2: being shot in the stomach. I asked Nick what had happened.
Speaker 2: He stated that he has shot himself while looking at
Speaker 2: a gun.
Speaker 1: When the cops interrogated Andy, he also blamed Nick, who,
Speaker 1: when pressed, came clean.
Speaker 2: He stated that he didn't intend for it to go on.
Speaker 1: Then there are the accounts of everyone else who'd been
Speaker 1: in the room that day. There's Andy's friend Israel.
Speaker 2: Israel heard Andy klick the gun, wasn't sure what had happened.
Speaker 3: And two other guys, someone named Jason he then.
Speaker 2: Saw the gun in Andy's hand with an expression like
Speaker 2: he didn't expect.
Speaker 3: It to go off, and someone named Jared.
Speaker 2: He told me that Nick had a very surprised look
Speaker 2: on his face and that no one really knew what
Speaker 2: had happened. We feel with the information that we received
Speaker 2: that there was no intention on hurting anyone and that
Speaker 2: the shooting was an accidental shooting. The subjects were released
Speaker 2: after obtaining statements. Well, Nick had a very surprised look
Speaker 2: on his face. Sure, I did.
Speaker 1: The names Jason and Jared are both unfamiliar to Nick,
Speaker 1: so to our search for the sympathetic kid.
Speaker 2: It's got to be one of those two guys.
Speaker 3: So what's going on?
Speaker 1: Well, the following week, Nick and I talk again. This
Speaker 1: time though Nick has reached out to me because he
Speaker 1: has some news to share.
Speaker 2: It's been five days or whatever since I contacted Jared.
Speaker 1: After I sent Nick the police report, he spent the
Speaker 1: rest of the day obsessing he was so close to
Speaker 1: finding the person he'd thought about for so long that
Speaker 1: he decided to take matters into his own hands and
Speaker 1: do some digging. Well, Jason's last name was incredibly common,
Speaker 1: Jared's last name was unique, So Nick typed it into
Speaker 1: Facebook and it Jared popped up who was living in
Speaker 1: that same part of Idaho.
Speaker 2: And it looks like he's got a teenage son that
Speaker 2: looks exactly like my memory of what he looked like
Speaker 2: I sent him this very generic message to throw the
Speaker 2: line out there, like I was trying to net a butterfly. Hi, Jared,
Speaker 2: you may not know me at all. That I'm trying
Speaker 2: to find someone with your name that lived in Barely
Speaker 2: back in nineteen ninety three, might be someone who showed
Speaker 2: me a great deal of kindness during an accident that
Speaker 2: happened at the budget.
Speaker 1: Jared's profile didn't seem all that active, so Nick tried
Speaker 1: sending a message to his wife as well, and she responded.
Speaker 2: She says, oh, wow, I think he's told me that story.
Speaker 2: I'll let him know and tell him to message.
Speaker 1: You, And a couple days later, Jared did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's me. I have a lot of memories of
Speaker 2: that day, not all good. Then I say, me too,
Speaker 2: I know this is a lot to hit you with
Speaker 2: out of the blue. I think you were the one
Speaker 2: most worried about me. You asked if I needed a tell?
Speaker 2: Was that you? And he responds yes, I remember getting
Speaker 2: a towel for your back, making sure the exit wind
Speaker 2: was clean. I remember staying there till the EMT's got there.
Speaker 2: It's like it happened yesterday.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: And then I said I've been waiting three decades to
Speaker 2: thank you for that and the chaos. Your kindness remains
Speaker 2: with me. You don't know what people are made of
Speaker 2: until something like that happens. You are a good soul,
Speaker 2: and he says, thank you. But even though where it
Speaker 2: shit happens, a life is a life, your kind words
Speaker 2: mean a lot. I did have some flashbacks to that day. Honestly,
Speaker 2: I didn't remember your name because that chaos started thirty
Speaker 2: seconds after I met you. I can still see the
Speaker 2: fear in your eyes. I only did what I hope
Speaker 2: someone would do for me. Then I said, I'm glad
Speaker 2: to be alive. I'm now fifty one. Jared says, I'm
Speaker 2: glad you are doing good. I will message you tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Just got off work and doing the dinner thing. Thank
Speaker 2: you for your kind words.
Speaker 1: But the next day, when Nick raised the prospect of
Speaker 1: actually speaking on the phone, Jared stopped answering. Eventually, Nick
Speaker 1: got another message from Jared's wife, Good morning, Nick. Jared
Speaker 1: knows it was a terrible experience for you and has
Speaker 1: no doubt you went through hell as a result, but
Speaker 1: it was traumatic for him as well. Over the last
Speaker 1: thirty years, he's dealt with it in his own way,
Speaker 1: and he wants it to remain in his past.
Speaker 3: Again.
Speaker 1: Thank you for your kindness and for thanking him after
Speaker 1: all these years. On the one hand, Nick is glad
Speaker 1: to have finally found Jared and been able to thank him,
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, he's a little disappointed their
Speaker 1: exchange was so brief. Whatever Nick was looking for, it
Speaker 1: seems like he hasn't found it, and for the next
Speaker 1: couple months that's where it sits. But all the while,
Speaker 1: as it turns out, just as Nick had been wanting
Speaker 1: to speak with Jared, there's been someone badly wanting to
Speaker 1: speak with him, someone who's always hovered just outside the
Speaker 1: story's frame. Her name doesn't appear in Nick's written account,
Speaker 1: nor does it show up in the police report this,
Speaker 1: although she was present at the time of the shooting,
Speaker 1: if only as a voice on the other end of
Speaker 1: a phone line.
Speaker 4: The phone rang and someone answers, and what I hear?
Speaker 4: As I hear A good shot.
Speaker 1: At the time Nick was shot, he had a girlfriend, Maggie.
Speaker 1: Nickott suggested I reach out to Maggie as a way
Speaker 1: of getting more background on that time, but over the
Speaker 1: course of talking with Maggie, it became clear that she
Speaker 1: had more to offer than just background. Nick Att first
Speaker 1: met Maggie back when she was thirteen and he was fifteen.
Speaker 1: He noticed her at a friend's house, a spiky haired
Speaker 1: punk girl hunched over a Wiji board trying to summon
Speaker 1: the spirit of Nancy Spongeen. Maggie thought Nick was funny
Speaker 1: and a quote champion grade dork. The two became friends,
Speaker 1: and several years later, when Maggie was nineteen, she and
Speaker 1: Nick started dating. To save money, they moved in together.
Speaker 1: It wasn't long after that that Nick set off on
Speaker 1: his ill fated trip to Burley. On the evening of
Speaker 1: June third, nineteen ninety three, Maggie picked up the phone
Speaker 1: and called Nick at his room in the Budget motel,
Speaker 1: and she happened to call at the exact moment the
Speaker 1: shot was fired.
Speaker 4: The phone rang and someone answers, and I say, is Nick?
Speaker 4: There is Nick available? And what I hear before this
Speaker 4: person responds, is I hear, Oh my god, I've been shot.
Speaker 4: Call nine one one. I've been shot. Like by moments
Speaker 4: I missed the you know the capal so in my
Speaker 4: mind's I I have no context for this. It doesn't
Speaker 4: occur to me that someone in the room has actually
Speaker 4: been shot. I thought, well, maybe someone in the room
Speaker 4: was like recounting that, you know, like a cop show
Speaker 4: that something like that, and they just said, like, na,
Speaker 4: he can't come to the phone right now.
Speaker 1: Not only was Maggie there sort of at the budget motel,
Speaker 1: but she was also there beyond the point where Nick
Speaker 1: ends his story. She was there for his long recovery
Speaker 1: process in the months afterwards. Yes, and so you ended
Speaker 1: up kind of becoming the de facto caregiver.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's correct.
Speaker 3: I mean you were just nineteen. That's a lot to
Speaker 3: take on.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was a really it was a tumultuous It
Speaker 4: was a challenging time, and I Nick had a lot
Speaker 4: of emotions. He was really really fucking angry and depressed.
Speaker 4: He took a lot of it out on me and
Speaker 4: was not very kind to me at all at all.
Speaker 1: So, while Nick was dealing with the trauma of being shot,
Speaker 1: Maggie was dealing with the trauma of dealing with Nick.
Speaker 1: She was the one to stand by him in the
Speaker 1: months to come. If anyone was truly sympathetic, truly a
Speaker 1: good soul, he was Maggie Maggie and Nick broke not
Speaker 1: long after the accident, but they've remained friends for all
Speaker 1: these years. Even so, over the last three decades, they've
Speaker 1: never talked about that time. Nick says it's easier not to.
Speaker 1: He wasn't the best version of himself. That makes a
Speaker 1: conversation with Maggie a harder one to have than the
Speaker 1: one with Jared, but it potentially makes it a more
Speaker 1: valuable conversation too. And Maggie says there's a lot she's
Speaker 1: never said to Nick, that she's now finally ready to.
Speaker 4: Say, hello, my old friend, come on in.
Speaker 1: And so we all meet up one summer afternoon at
Speaker 1: Maggie's townhouse.
Speaker 4: How are you feeling?
Speaker 1: We head upstairs to Maggie's living room. Her place feels
Speaker 1: cozy and inviting. The walls are full of art.
Speaker 4: So I'm gonna I'm gonna pour myself a glass of
Speaker 4: wine because I'm nervous.
Speaker 2: Good for you, So, Nick, do you want to be beer?
Speaker 2: I was like fantasizing that you would ask me.
Speaker 1: That Maggie and Nick sit beside each other on the couch,
Speaker 1: and Maggie begins the story of that day from her perspective.
Speaker 4: What I remember was that I called.
Speaker 1: When Maggie called the Budget motel that day, she heard
Speaker 1: the chaos in the background, Maggie, but it wasn't until
Speaker 1: later that night that she understood what had happened. Nick's
Speaker 1: boss called to tell her that Nick was in surgery
Speaker 1: for a gunshot wound. I remember Maggie got in the
Speaker 1: car to drive the several hours to see him in
Speaker 1: the hospital.
Speaker 4: There was thunder and lightning, storms raging, and the windshield
Speaker 4: wipers and the visibility was terrible, and I was blasting
Speaker 4: social distortion. It's the high planes in Idaho, you know,
Speaker 4: So it's like that sage brushy and not knowing. I
Speaker 4: remember driving not knowing if you were going to be
Speaker 4: alive or dead when I got there.
Speaker 1: In the immediate aftermath, there was a rush of family
Speaker 1: that arrived to visit Nick in the hospital. Receded into
Speaker 1: the background.
Speaker 4: In a way. It was like everyone shows up, you know,
Speaker 4: like while there's all of this fanfare, and then the
Speaker 4: day to day, everyone fucking dissipates.
Speaker 1: And that's what we're here to talk about the time
Speaker 1: after everyone else had dissipated and it was just Nick
Speaker 1: and Maggie.
Speaker 3: For a while. Nick was unable to leave the house.
Speaker 1: His dad was a pretty big stoner, and so he
Speaker 1: gifted Nick a huge bag of weed to help in
Speaker 1: his recovery.
Speaker 2: Every morning androlla dooby and watch the cartoon version of
Speaker 2: Beetlejuice or whatever, and the rest of the day just
Speaker 2: kind of had a nice float to it. It was helpful,
Speaker 2: but I also think I was kind of going stir crazy.
Speaker 1: As a part of his recovery, Nick was forced to
Speaker 1: wear a colostomy bag, an inflatable sack attached to his stomach.
Speaker 1: It was uncomfortable and cumbersome and made him feel old
Speaker 1: before his time. Nick had to lean on Maggie for help.
Speaker 4: I apologize for that, for having a cost to me. Yeah,
Speaker 4: like the cost to me was secondary. On the one hand, yacht,
Speaker 4: it was really hard to wake up covered and shit sometimes.
Speaker 4: But like also what made it hard is then that
Speaker 4: you would be really mad. I'm trying to manage your anger.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to get me cleaned up. I've got to
Speaker 4: get to like I start at seven am.
Speaker 1: It turns out that at the time, Maggie was in
Speaker 1: nursing school, so aside from the full time job of
Speaker 1: taking care of Nick, she also had an internship at
Speaker 1: the hospital and was taking an overwhelming course load.
Speaker 3: It was a lot.
Speaker 2: Thanks for taking care of me. I'm sorry it sucked
Speaker 2: so man.
Speaker 1: Although Nick says the words he's supposed to, thank you,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, he still doesn't fully understand what he's saying,
Speaker 1: thank you and sorry for so. Maggie tries to tell.
Speaker 4: Him it was really shitty. You were really awful to me.
Speaker 3: I believe that.
Speaker 4: I'm feeling a lot of emotion. That was hard, dear.
Speaker 2: I was, you know, in awe of you for being
Speaker 2: so focused and driven and organized, and also sort of
Speaker 2: felt like this person is sort of out of my
Speaker 2: leg because you were just I couldn't really.
Speaker 4: You were mad at me about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's probably true.
Speaker 1: Maggie sits with her legs tucked up on the couch,
Speaker 1: looking right at Nick Nick stairs ahead at the wall.
Speaker 4: You know, like you were smoking weed in that back
Speaker 4: room all day, watching TV, and you like you wouldn't
Speaker 4: even open the blinds. You'd sit there in the dark
Speaker 4: like it'd be you know, like sunny. We weren't compatible,
Speaker 4: but we were stuck. You were sick. You were so
Speaker 4: fucking depressed and angry at the world.
Speaker 1: Nick was angry at Andy and Israel for abandoning him.
Speaker 1: He was angry at himself for taking the blame with
Speaker 1: the Cobs. He was angry that he was in this
Speaker 1: city situation at all, bedridden and confronting his mortality at
Speaker 1: twenty one. He directed all of that at Maggie.
Speaker 2: I wasn't such a great person as far as I think.
Speaker 2: There was a lot of rage.
Speaker 4: Yeah, do you remember what you would say?
Speaker 2: I don't remember the exact things I would say, but
Speaker 2: I can just kind of imagine being in blind rage
Speaker 2: and just saying awful shit.
Speaker 4: I feel really self conscious even saying it like out loud. Yeah,
Speaker 4: sometimes you would talk A would say how you fantasized
Speaker 4: killing me? Really, I remember what. I don't remember if
Speaker 4: it was your birthday or if there was something something
Speaker 4: that was good. And I remember I made you a
Speaker 4: bunch of cupcakes and you were so fucking mad. I
Speaker 4: made you goddamn cupcakes, Like, why would you want cupcakes?
Speaker 4: You fucking smashed them?
Speaker 2: Really, I don't remember that.
Speaker 1: The first time I read Nick's account of that day,
Speaker 1: I was struck by his ability to recall the minutia,
Speaker 1: given that it's surprising to hear what he doesn't remember.
Speaker 4: I didn't think you would ever do anything on it,
Speaker 4: But I also lived with just a lot of fucking
Speaker 4: rage and hate in my direction, and like, oddly I understood,
Speaker 4: like how and why you were so mad. It's on
Speaker 4: my own fucked up way, like I gave it a pass.
Speaker 1: Nick might have forgotten some of the painful details, but
Speaker 1: he does remember the moment he crossed the line.
Speaker 3: Do you remember what that was?
Speaker 1: I do?
Speaker 3: Oh, tell me about that.
Speaker 2: We were in a fight and it was a raging moment.
Speaker 2: I don't know what the fuck it was about. But
Speaker 2: I pushed you up against the wall and I had
Speaker 2: my hand sort of around your throat.
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, you remember this, I do know.
Speaker 1: For the first time, Maggie breaks eye contact, she covers
Speaker 1: her face with her hands.
Speaker 4: Why did I hello this shit?
Speaker 2: Well, he said get the fuck out right now, I
Speaker 2: think is what you said, and I agreed with you.
Speaker 4: It reads like domestic violence.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: It dawned on me like, wow, this is really fucked up.
Speaker 2: What am I doing? And you were looking at me like, yeah,
Speaker 2: what the fuck are you doing? Can you remember that?
Speaker 4: And I had so much empathy for what you were
Speaker 4: going through and as I sit here hearing that, no,
Speaker 4: it's like, where was I my fucking empathy for myself?
Speaker 4: Who looked out for me? And why wasn't I looking
Speaker 4: out for me? That's this fucking recurring pattern that just
Speaker 4: like lived out, and I think that's why I'm feeling
Speaker 4: all the things that I'm feeling that It's like, holy fuck,
Speaker 4: this is just another iteration of something that was a
Speaker 4: part of that's my own story.
Speaker 5: For years, Maggie, I'm sorry, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just I'm honest when I say that, you know,
Speaker 2: reflecting as much as I cared to over the years,
Speaker 2: it dawned on me more and more the load of
Speaker 2: shit that you dealt with. But that said, it wasn't
Speaker 2: just till a few minutes ago that I realized how
Speaker 2: fucking happy that was. So it was hard to hear,
Speaker 2: but necessary, and I can't. I'm not defensive because it's true.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: I know that for a fact it was true. I
Speaker 2: don't want to remember myself that way about ugly I became.
Speaker 2: I really want to flip this story around to where
Speaker 2: I'm a better person than I was.
Speaker 1: The way Nick has always framed the story around that
Speaker 1: day at the budget motel.
Speaker 3: He was the victim.
Speaker 1: A horrible, painful thing happened to him through no fault
Speaker 1: of his own. He could have been paralyzed, he could
Speaker 1: have died. But when you widen the story's frame beyond
Speaker 1: the motel room, to include Nick's recovery, to include Maggie,
Speaker 1: it isn't so simple. I.
Speaker 4: On some level knew I was just in proximity and
Speaker 4: I was the safest person, and I cared about you.
Speaker 2: I still care about you. Well, I care about it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, you were so angry.
Speaker 2: I still am. It's not just the nineteen ninety three
Speaker 2: gunshot that made me pissed off about everything. It's just
Speaker 2: everything going back to nineteen seventy three.
Speaker 4: I remember, even before we were in a relationship, you
Speaker 4: so wanted to connect with your dad.
Speaker 1: Throughout Nick's childhood, his father was a largely absent figure.
Speaker 1: He looked at Nick as an impediment of the things
Speaker 1: he really wanted to do. Party, drink, have a good time.
Speaker 4: You would talk about how like your dad would be
Speaker 4: in the bar and you were a little kid and
Speaker 4: so like, and it's your time to be with your dad,
Speaker 4: and so you'd be sitting in the van for hours.
Speaker 2: Just wait for me in the car. If you see
Speaker 2: a cop or whatever with a flashlight or something, don't
Speaker 2: be crying. Don't be crying, Okay, Dad, I promised, I
Speaker 2: won't be crying if a cop like shine the flashlight
Speaker 2: in here, wondering what I'm doing alone and waiting outside.
Speaker 4: Of for okay. So fast forward to being shot and
Speaker 4: not letting the cops know what's like.
Speaker 2: Just sucking it up. That's a lesson I learned early on.
Speaker 1: Nick had been taught early on, had a shield others
Speaker 1: from blame. It makes sense that he, of all people,
Speaker 1: would have been quick to tell the police he shot himself.
Speaker 2: I was just doing what you told me to you, Dad.
Speaker 1: It's hard to get someone who's ignoring you to even
Speaker 1: notice your anger, whether it's the guy who shot you
Speaker 1: in a motel room or the man who was supposed
Speaker 1: to be raising you. And so you vent your anger
Speaker 1: on the people you think might actually be able to
Speaker 1: absorb it, even if they're not the ones who deserve it.
Speaker 1: That's not an excuse, but it's an explanation. When Nick
Speaker 1: first reached out for my help in finding Jared, his
Speaker 1: dad had died only a few weeks earlier. Hearing all this,
Speaker 1: that timing starts to feel like more than just a coincidence.
Speaker 1: Nick's relationship with his dad is tied up with that day.
Speaker 1: Nick brings up that memory of his dad showing up
Speaker 1: at the hospital right after he was shot.
Speaker 2: I think you had called him or whatever. So he drank.
Speaker 4: I got a whold of him at the bar.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: So he drove, you know, to drunk, probably two hours.
Speaker 2: And there's a couple of moments in my life with
Speaker 2: dad where I felt like we were locked in and
Speaker 2: it wasn't just me waiting around to get his attention.
Speaker 2: And that was one of those moments.
Speaker 4: When you got his attention.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I could tell he was crying.
Speaker 3: He was so upset.
Speaker 2: So that's just like one of those one time is
Speaker 2: where I was the focus of his attention.
Speaker 4: You're one of the very few people from that time
Speaker 4: in my life where I kept a thread any kind
Speaker 4: of friend. It were somebody else, we wouldn't be sitting
Speaker 4: here in my living room.
Speaker 2: I'm so honored by that. Thank you, because I don't
Speaker 2: know if I deserve it. Thank you are the hero
Speaker 2: of this story.
Speaker 1: The work of being a person is to recognize patterns
Speaker 1: in ourselves, to see the things we do over and
Speaker 1: over and to try to create new patterns, cast ourselves
Speaker 1: in new roles and not just the role of hero. Nick,
Speaker 1: for his part, is working to be more aware of
Speaker 1: his anger, shielding.
Speaker 2: My loved ones from it. How do I channel it
Speaker 2: without hurting people near me? What I don't often realize
Speaker 2: is how much it radiates and fucking penetrates other people.
Speaker 1: As for Maggie, she wants to protect herself, to set
Speaker 1: up her life so that she's the priority.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to Yeah, I'm almost fifty. For the first
Speaker 4: time in my life, I'm trying to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, this is the story of a man who
Speaker 1: was shot. I've just told you one version, a different
Speaker 1: one than if Nick were telling it himself, a different
Speaker 1: one than if he tried to lay it all out
Speaker 1: again twenty years down the road. But for now, Nick
Speaker 1: and Maggie hug and while I pack up to head
Speaker 1: back to my hotel, the two of them go out
Speaker 1: to sit on Maggie's balcony to enjoy the rest of
Speaker 1: the day, to soak in what they can before the
Speaker 1: sun goes down.
Speaker 4: Now that the fernures ripped, turning to it's goodwill home.
Speaker 3: Now that the last month's rant is scheming.
Speaker 2: With the damage to Gossle, take this moment to deserve.
Speaker 4: If we meant it.
Speaker 3: If we took but felt around for far too from
Speaker 3: things Accidentally to.
Speaker 4: Zero.
Speaker 1: This episode of Heavyweight was produced by senior producer Khalila
Speaker 1: Holt and me Jonathan Goldstein, along with Phoebe Flanagan. Our
Speaker 1: supervising producer is Stevie Lane. Production assistance by Mohemiy mcgouger,
Speaker 1: editorial guidance from Emily Condon. Special thanks to Annie Minoff,
Speaker 1: Laura Morris, Lauren Silverman, and Jackie Cohen. Bobby Lord mixed
Speaker 1: the episode with original music by Christine Fellows, John K. Sampson,
Speaker 1: Michael Hurst, Katie Condon, Blue Dot Sessions, and Bobby Lord.
Speaker 1: Additional music credits can be found on our website Gimletmedia
Speaker 1: dot com slash Heavyweight. Our theme song is by The
Speaker 1: Weaker Thans courtesy of Epitaph Records. Heavyweight is a Spotify
Speaker 1: original podcast. I'd also like to give a shout out
Speaker 1: to another Spotify podcast that we love around here. On
Speaker 1: the show, it's called Science Versus. The host, Wendy Zuckerman
Speaker 1: is so much fun to listen to and I always
Speaker 1: end up learning so much. Each episode she tackles a
Speaker 1: different myth or fad like vaping or hypnosis, alternative milks,
Speaker 1: and she dives into the science to deliver up the facts.
Speaker 1: Science Versus is available anywhere you listen to podcasts, and
Speaker 1: you really should.
Speaker 3: Check it out.
Speaker 1: You should also follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight, on
Speaker 1: Instagram at Heavyweight podcast, or email us at Heavyweight at.
Speaker 3: Gimletmedia dot com.
Speaker 1: You can also follow our show on Spotify and tap
Speaker 1: the bell to receive notifications when new episodes drop. We'll
Speaker 1: be right back with a new episode just after Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1: Happy Toyky Day.
Speaker 2: The bott