1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: A word of warning that today's episode contains descriptions of violence. 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Please take care when listening. 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 2: Hi, how are you doing good? 4 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 3: I left you like four or five messages? 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 2: Busy day, busy day. 6 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 3: Do you remember on the Dukes of Hazzard there was 7 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 3: the sheriff. Do you remember what his name was? Roscoe P. Coltrane. 8 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 4: Oh? 9 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 3: I remember it was Roscoe. Do you remember what the 10 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 3: peace stood for? 11 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 4: No? 12 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 3: Was it Philip? Oh? My god, no, she's not. 13 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 4: How do you know I was lying? How did you 14 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 4: know why I was lying? 15 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 3: You sounded too loving. 16 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is heavyweight today's episode the 17 00:00:52,880 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: Budget Motel. Right after the break, Nick tells me he 18 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,119 Speaker 1: doesn't consider himself to be a writer. He works as 19 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: a landscaper, but several years ago he felt compelled to 20 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: write about an event that derailed his life. The story's 21 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 1: title What It's Like to Be Shot. Thirty years ago, 22 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: Nick was shot in the stomach by a coworker, a 23 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: guy named Andy. Nick was twenty one years old, and 24 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: ever since that day he's continued to tell versions of 25 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 1: what happened. In his twenties, it was a good story 26 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: to tell in a bar. 27 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 2: Packaged in a way to impress girls. 28 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: In his thirties, it became a kind of flex, something 29 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: to give him that tough guy quality he lacked compared 30 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: to the hunters and brawlers he grew up with in Idaho. 31 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: In his forties, he honed the story to the written version. 32 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: I like Nick's writing so much, asked him if he'd 33 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: read the story aloud. 34 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 3: To me, Would you mind reading it? 35 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 2: You want me to just start from the beginning, could you? Yeah? 36 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: It all begins with Nick and his coworker Andy and Burley, Idaho. 37 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: They were there for an out of town irrigation contract. 38 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: Andy was originally from Burley, and so we invited some 39 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: high school friends over to drink beer in the room 40 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: he and Nick were sharing at the budget motel. I'll 41 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: let Nick take it from here. 42 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: The guys had brought in a nine millimeter automatic for 43 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 2: show and tell. I wouldn't have been surprised if it 44 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 2: was in fact stolen or purchased illegally. I wasn't particularly 45 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 2: curious about the weapon, having had my share of firearms 46 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 2: fund growing up in Pocatel. We littered the sagebrush hills 47 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 2: with spent casings. I remember sitting on the edge of 48 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: the motel bed across Andy. Andy's eyes were on the gun, 49 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: but not downrange. I was downrange. Andy dropped the magazine, 50 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 2: charged the slider. It's cool to charge a handgun. It 51 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 2: makes a cool sound and it feels good, and about 52 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 2: to dry fire, but had not checked the chamber. I 53 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: leaned to the left, about to say, dude, don't point 54 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 2: that thing at me. Dude, damn. My first thought was, 55 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 2: damn it. We were so fired. The gun has gone 56 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 2: off in our room. I looked down toward my lap 57 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 2: and noticed the whistle of smoke coming from the torn 58 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 2: hole in the belt line of my pants. I reached 59 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 2: around with my left hand and felt a wet spot 60 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 2: in the small on my back. Holy fucking shit, I've 61 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 2: just been shot in and out right fucking through me. 62 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 2: Holy shit. Noting the proximity of the wet spot to 63 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 2: my spine, I quickly stood up to see if my 64 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 2: legs worked. They did, and he rushed the gun over 65 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 2: to Israel, who had brought it. Say you did it, man. 66 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 2: Israel quickly took a knee in front of me, trying 67 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 2: to get me to hold the weapon. Dude, say you 68 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 2: shot yourself. Fucking Call nine one. 69 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 5: One. 70 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: The police report, written by one of what Burly considered 71 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 2: their finest, says that I reported the wound accidentally self 72 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 2: inflicted upon his arrival. I remember saying I've been shot. 73 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: It was an accident, as the cop casually strolled in 74 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 2: with a stupid board look on his face. A lot 75 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: of the actual agony is beyond memory. I can remember 76 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 2: what the pain led me to think, Okay, if this 77 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 2: is the end, let's get it over already. Bring on 78 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 2: the dark fade or the bright light. There was no 79 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 2: fear of death, only the impatient anticipation of relief. I 80 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 2: was bawling and blubbering, like a toddler that had fallen 81 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 2: off a swing. Every story I'd read of soldiers slowly 82 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 2: dying on battlefields crying out for their mothers made sense. 83 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 2: There is a very real need for mommy that supersedes 84 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 2: any macho imprinting. At this level of helplessness, my pleas 85 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: for morphine were denied. Instead, I was impaled with a 86 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 2: catheter in my urethra and an NG tube into my 87 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 2: nose and down my throat. Somewhere I found in myself 88 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 2: a cooperative attitude toward these brutes. I even reported the 89 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 2: fact I was wearing contact lenses. As they rubbed the 90 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 2: orange gue on my belly and shaved my pubic hair. 91 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 2: They plucked out the lenses before I got wheeled into 92 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: the or. Everything suddenly got calmer there. My only company 93 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 2: was a gentle voice man who said, I'm doctor Lowell Feinstein. 94 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 2: I'll be your nfcesiologist. Just breathe into this. The nurses 95 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,119 Speaker 2: in ICU took an icy tone with me. They weren't 96 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 2: going to mommy, some young man and with gunshot wounds 97 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 2: who probably had a coming. I did get a sarcastic ah, 98 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 2: poor baby when I cried during my first wound. A breadment. 99 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 2: That was the daily routine of stuffing ribbons of cotton 100 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 2: gauze into the boltholes with a long swab. Twice a day. 101 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 2: They'd pull out the gauze along with all the dead 102 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 2: tissue dried to it, then stuff new gauze in and 103 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 2: I got used to it and it became less painful. 104 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 2: As with most gross things about your body, you eventually 105 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 2: come to enjoy it, kind of like picking your nose. 106 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: The first visitor was a blurry image, not because of 107 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 2: the meds, but because of the earlier foolishness of having 108 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 2: my contacts removed before surgery. It's my dad who is here. 109 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 2: I make a crack to bring levity to the ICU, 110 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 2: something quick from a Western Maybe they got me pa. 111 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: There are only tears, and here with his father's tears. 112 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: Is how Nick has always ended the story, a cut 113 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: down hero being wept over by his dad. But now 114 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: that he's in his fifties, Nick doesn't see himself as 115 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: the hero of this story at all. Instead, he sees 116 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: someone else as the true hero of that day. It's 117 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,799 Speaker 1: not Andy or his friend Israel. They mostly seemed concerned 118 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: with not getting in trouble, and I didn't hear a 119 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: word from them since that day. You know, there was 120 00:06:57,839 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: no visit in the hospital. 121 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 2: No, if I had accidentally shot somebody, I would have 122 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 2: been beside myself with apology and just begging forgiveness. But 123 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 2: I didn't hear a thing from those guys. I didn't 124 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 2: hear a thing from those guys either. I reached out 125 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 2: to both Andy and Israel to get their version of 126 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 2: the story, but never heard back. The cops were indifferent, 127 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 2: the hospital workers coldly efficient. Nick felt alone and angry 128 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 2: he'd been blamed for his own injury and then abandoned. 129 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 2: No one actually cared about what he was going through 130 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 2: at all, with the exception of one person, a friend 131 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 2: of Andy's whose name Nick never even caught, but who 132 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 2: he refers to as the kid. I didn't know this kid. 133 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 2: He was just in the periphery of everybody that was 134 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 2: hanging out. So all of a sudden, I'm shot. I 135 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 2: can just see this kid's face and he's crying, and 136 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 2: he's looking down at me, and he's asking if there's 137 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 2: anything he can do, like get me a towel or something. 138 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 2: The looks on other people's faces was one of detachment 139 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 2: and coal, like they were looking at a squirrel hitting 140 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 2: the road or something. And he was the one that 141 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 2: you could just tell he was legitimately scared, not about 142 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 2: getting in trouble, but for me. 143 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: And you're able to in that moment, you were able 144 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: to read all of that. 145 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, I don't know. I think everything slows 146 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 2: down to where, you know, some things are sparkling clear. Yeah, 147 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 2: Like if you've ever been in a car accident or whatever, 148 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 2: everything seems to go in slow motion. And I just 149 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 2: that's the thing that still sticks with me, is somebody 150 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 2: you know, just as scared as I was. 151 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,839 Speaker 1: A kind look a towel, not exactly Superman level of heroism, 152 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: but Nick consists that because the gestures came at one 153 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: of the scariest moments of his life, and because everyone 154 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: else was offering nothing, this is something, even though it 155 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: was a small something, felt like a lot. 156 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 2: And so in that moment, him and I were not strangers. 157 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: It's a feeling like I don't want to die alone, 158 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: and here's one person that's not a stranger. 159 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: And so thirty years later, what Nick wants is to 160 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: find that kid, that sympathetic kid who cried and offered 161 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: him a towel, and simply thank him. But where the 162 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: search takes us is somewhere neither Nick nor I could 163 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: have anticipated. So we're going to do it. Okay, wow, yeah, 164 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: we're going to try to find this kid. I think 165 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: after the break, we try to find this kid. I think, Hello, 166 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: do you hear me? I can now more importantly, can 167 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 1: you see me? 168 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 2: I can't see you? 169 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 3: Okay, it's not more important. 170 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: Really, I asked Nick to check in over video because 171 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: I have some news. In order to get the name 172 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: of the sympathetic kid, I contacted the Sheriff's Department and 173 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: got the police report from the day Nick was shot. 174 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, so I wanted to share it with you. 175 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: Nick's not seen the report since the shooting happened thirty 176 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,199 Speaker 1: years ago. I send it over and once again, Nick 177 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: reads an account of the day, but this time from 178 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: the perspective of the police officer on duty. 179 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 2: On the above date, I was sent to the Budget 180 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 2: motel room for thirty seven in reference to a subject 181 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 2: being shot in the stomach. I asked Nick what had happened. 182 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 2: He stated that he has shot himself while looking at 183 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 2: a gun. 184 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: When the cops interrogated Andy, he also blamed Nick, who, 185 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: when pressed, came clean. 186 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 2: He stated that he didn't intend for it to go on. 187 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: Then there are the accounts of everyone else who'd been 188 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: in the room that day. There's Andy's friend Israel. 189 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,719 Speaker 2: Israel heard Andy klick the gun, wasn't sure what had happened. 190 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 3: And two other guys, someone named Jason he then. 191 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 2: Saw the gun in Andy's hand with an expression like 192 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 2: he didn't expect. 193 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 3: It to go off, and someone named Jared. 194 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 2: He told me that Nick had a very surprised look 195 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 2: on his face and that no one really knew what 196 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 2: had happened. We feel with the information that we received 197 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 2: that there was no intention on hurting anyone and that 198 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 2: the shooting was an accidental shooting. The subjects were released 199 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 2: after obtaining statements. Well, Nick had a very surprised look 200 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: on his face. Sure, I did. 201 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: The names Jason and Jared are both unfamiliar to Nick, 202 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: so to our search for the sympathetic kid. 203 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 2: It's got to be one of those two guys. 204 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 3: So what's going on? 205 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: Well, the following week, Nick and I talk again. This 206 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: time though Nick has reached out to me because he 207 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: has some news to share. 208 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 2: It's been five days or whatever since I contacted Jared. 209 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: After I sent Nick the police report, he spent the 210 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: rest of the day obsessing he was so close to 211 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: finding the person he'd thought about for so long that 212 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: he decided to take matters into his own hands and 213 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: do some digging. Well, Jason's last name was incredibly common, 214 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: Jared's last name was unique, So Nick typed it into 215 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: Facebook and it Jared popped up who was living in 216 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: that same part of Idaho. 217 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: And it looks like he's got a teenage son that 218 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 2: looks exactly like my memory of what he looked like 219 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 2: I sent him this very generic message to throw the 220 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 2: line out there, like I was trying to net a butterfly. Hi, Jared, 221 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 2: you may not know me at all. That I'm trying 222 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 2: to find someone with your name that lived in Barely 223 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 2: back in nineteen ninety three, might be someone who showed 224 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 2: me a great deal of kindness during an accident that 225 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 2: happened at the budget. 226 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: Jared's profile didn't seem all that active, so Nick tried 227 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: sending a message to his wife as well, and she responded. 228 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 2: She says, oh, wow, I think he's told me that story. 229 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 2: I'll let him know and tell him to message. 230 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: You, And a couple days later, Jared did. 231 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's me. I have a lot of memories of 232 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 2: that day, not all good. Then I say, me too, 233 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:29,839 Speaker 2: I know this is a lot to hit you with 234 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 2: out of the blue. I think you were the one 235 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 2: most worried about me. You asked if I needed a tell? 236 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 2: Was that you? And he responds yes, I remember getting 237 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 2: a towel for your back, making sure the exit wind 238 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 2: was clean. I remember staying there till the EMT's got there. 239 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 2: It's like it happened yesterday. 240 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 3: Wow. 241 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 2: And then I said I've been waiting three decades to 242 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 2: thank you for that and the chaos. Your kindness remains 243 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 2: with me. You don't know what people are made of 244 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 2: until something like that happens. You are a good soul, 245 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 2: and he says, thank you. But even though where it 246 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 2: shit happens, a life is a life, your kind words 247 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 2: mean a lot. I did have some flashbacks to that day. Honestly, 248 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 2: I didn't remember your name because that chaos started thirty 249 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 2: seconds after I met you. I can still see the 250 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 2: fear in your eyes. I only did what I hope 251 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 2: someone would do for me. Then I said, I'm glad 252 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 2: to be alive. I'm now fifty one. Jared says, I'm 253 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 2: glad you are doing good. I will message you tomorrow. 254 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 2: Just got off work and doing the dinner thing. Thank 255 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 2: you for your kind words. 256 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: But the next day, when Nick raised the prospect of 257 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: actually speaking on the phone, Jared stopped answering. Eventually, Nick 258 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: got another message from Jared's wife, Good morning, Nick. Jared 259 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: knows it was a terrible experience for you and has 260 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: no doubt you went through hell as a result, but 261 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: it was traumatic for him as well. Over the last 262 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: thirty years, he's dealt with it in his own way, 263 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: and he wants it to remain in his past. 264 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 3: Again. 265 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: Thank you for your kindness and for thanking him after 266 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: all these years. On the one hand, Nick is glad 267 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: to have finally found Jared and been able to thank him, 268 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: But on the other hand, he's a little disappointed their 269 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: exchange was so brief. Whatever Nick was looking for, it 270 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: seems like he hasn't found it, and for the next 271 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: couple months that's where it sits. But all the while, 272 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: as it turns out, just as Nick had been wanting 273 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: to speak with Jared, there's been someone badly wanting to 274 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: speak with him, someone who's always hovered just outside the 275 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: story's frame. Her name doesn't appear in Nick's written account, 276 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: nor does it show up in the police report this, 277 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: although she was present at the time of the shooting, 278 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: if only as a voice on the other end of 279 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: a phone line. 280 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 4: The phone rang and someone answers, and what I hear? 281 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 4: As I hear A good shot. 282 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: At the time Nick was shot, he had a girlfriend, Maggie. 283 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: Nickott suggested I reach out to Maggie as a way 284 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: of getting more background on that time, but over the 285 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: course of talking with Maggie, it became clear that she 286 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: had more to offer than just background. Nick Att first 287 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: met Maggie back when she was thirteen and he was fifteen. 288 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: He noticed her at a friend's house, a spiky haired 289 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: punk girl hunched over a Wiji board trying to summon 290 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: the spirit of Nancy Spongeen. Maggie thought Nick was funny 291 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: and a quote champion grade dork. The two became friends, 292 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: and several years later, when Maggie was nineteen, she and 293 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: Nick started dating. To save money, they moved in together. 294 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: It wasn't long after that that Nick set off on 295 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: his ill fated trip to Burley. On the evening of 296 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: June third, nineteen ninety three, Maggie picked up the phone 297 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: and called Nick at his room in the Budget motel, 298 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: and she happened to call at the exact moment the 299 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: shot was fired. 300 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 4: The phone rang and someone answers, and I say, is Nick? 301 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,239 Speaker 4: There is Nick available? And what I hear before this 302 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 4: person responds, is I hear, Oh my god, I've been shot. 303 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 4: Call nine one one. I've been shot. Like by moments 304 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 4: I missed the you know the capal so in my 305 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 4: mind's I I have no context for this. It doesn't 306 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 4: occur to me that someone in the room has actually 307 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 4: been shot. I thought, well, maybe someone in the room 308 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 4: was like recounting that, you know, like a cop show 309 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 4: that something like that, and they just said, like, na, 310 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 4: he can't come to the phone right now. 311 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: Not only was Maggie there sort of at the budget motel, 312 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: but she was also there beyond the point where Nick 313 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: ends his story. She was there for his long recovery 314 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: process in the months afterwards. Yes, and so you ended 315 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 1: up kind of becoming the de facto caregiver. 316 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 2: Yes, that's correct. 317 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 3: I mean you were just nineteen. That's a lot to 318 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 3: take on. 319 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, that was a really it was a tumultuous It 320 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 4: was a challenging time, and I Nick had a lot 321 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 4: of emotions. He was really really fucking angry and depressed. 322 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 4: He took a lot of it out on me and 323 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 4: was not very kind to me at all at all. 324 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: So, while Nick was dealing with the trauma of being shot, 325 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: Maggie was dealing with the trauma of dealing with Nick. 326 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 1: She was the one to stand by him in the 327 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: months to come. If anyone was truly sympathetic, truly a 328 00:18:55,920 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: good soul, he was Maggie Maggie and Nick broke not 329 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: long after the accident, but they've remained friends for all 330 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: these years. Even so, over the last three decades, they've 331 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: never talked about that time. Nick says it's easier not to. 332 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: He wasn't the best version of himself. That makes a 333 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: conversation with Maggie a harder one to have than the 334 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: one with Jared, but it potentially makes it a more 335 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 1: valuable conversation too. And Maggie says there's a lot she's 336 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,120 Speaker 1: never said to Nick, that she's now finally ready to. 337 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 4: Say, hello, my old friend, come on in. 338 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: And so we all meet up one summer afternoon at 339 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: Maggie's townhouse. 340 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 4: How are you feeling? 341 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: We head upstairs to Maggie's living room. Her place feels 342 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: cozy and inviting. The walls are full of art. 343 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 4: So I'm gonna I'm gonna pour myself a glass of 344 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 4: wine because I'm nervous. 345 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 2: Good for you, So, Nick, do you want to be beer? 346 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 2: I was like fantasizing that you would ask me. 347 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: That Maggie and Nick sit beside each other on the couch, 348 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: and Maggie begins the story of that day from her perspective. 349 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 4: What I remember was that I called. 350 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 1: When Maggie called the Budget motel that day, she heard 351 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: the chaos in the background, Maggie, but it wasn't until 352 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: later that night that she understood what had happened. Nick's 353 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: boss called to tell her that Nick was in surgery 354 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 1: for a gunshot wound. I remember Maggie got in the 355 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 1: car to drive the several hours to see him in 356 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: the hospital. 357 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 4: There was thunder and lightning, storms raging, and the windshield 358 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 4: wipers and the visibility was terrible, and I was blasting 359 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 4: social distortion. It's the high planes in Idaho, you know, 360 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 4: So it's like that sage brushy and not knowing. I 361 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 4: remember driving not knowing if you were going to be 362 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 4: alive or dead when I got there. 363 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: In the immediate aftermath, there was a rush of family 364 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: that arrived to visit Nick in the hospital. Receded into 365 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: the background. 366 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 4: In a way. It was like everyone shows up, you know, 367 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 4: like while there's all of this fanfare, and then the 368 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 4: day to day, everyone fucking dissipates. 369 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: And that's what we're here to talk about the time 370 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: after everyone else had dissipated and it was just Nick 371 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 1: and Maggie. 372 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 3: For a while. Nick was unable to leave the house. 373 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 1: His dad was a pretty big stoner, and so he 374 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: gifted Nick a huge bag of weed to help in 375 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: his recovery. 376 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 2: Every morning androlla dooby and watch the cartoon version of 377 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 2: Beetlejuice or whatever, and the rest of the day just 378 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 2: kind of had a nice float to it. It was helpful, 379 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 2: but I also think I was kind of going stir crazy. 380 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: As a part of his recovery, Nick was forced to 381 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,400 Speaker 1: wear a colostomy bag, an inflatable sack attached to his stomach. 382 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 1: It was uncomfortable and cumbersome and made him feel old 383 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: before his time. Nick had to lean on Maggie for help. 384 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 4: I apologize for that, for having a cost to me. Yeah, 385 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 4: like the cost to me was secondary. On the one hand, yacht, 386 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 4: it was really hard to wake up covered and shit sometimes. 387 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 4: But like also what made it hard is then that 388 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 4: you would be really mad. I'm trying to manage your anger. 389 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 4: I'm trying to get me cleaned up. I've got to 390 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 4: get to like I start at seven am. 391 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: It turns out that at the time, Maggie was in 392 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 1: nursing school, so aside from the full time job of 393 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 1: taking care of Nick, she also had an internship at 394 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: the hospital and was taking an overwhelming course load. 395 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 3: It was a lot. 396 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 2: Thanks for taking care of me. I'm sorry it sucked 397 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 2: so man. 398 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 1: Although Nick says the words he's supposed to, thank you, 399 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, he still doesn't fully understand what he's saying, 400 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: thank you and sorry for so. Maggie tries to tell. 401 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 4: Him it was really shitty. You were really awful to me. 402 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 3: I believe that. 403 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 4: I'm feeling a lot of emotion. That was hard, dear. 404 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 2: I was, you know, in awe of you for being 405 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 2: so focused and driven and organized, and also sort of 406 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 2: felt like this person is sort of out of my 407 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 2: leg because you were just I couldn't really. 408 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 4: You were mad at me about it. 409 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's probably true. 410 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: Maggie sits with her legs tucked up on the couch, 411 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 1: looking right at Nick Nick stairs ahead at the wall. 412 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 4: You know, like you were smoking weed in that back 413 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 4: room all day, watching TV, and you like you wouldn't 414 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 4: even open the blinds. You'd sit there in the dark 415 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 4: like it'd be you know, like sunny. We weren't compatible, 416 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 4: but we were stuck. You were sick. You were so 417 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 4: fucking depressed and angry at the world. 418 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: Nick was angry at Andy and Israel for abandoning him. 419 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: He was angry at himself for taking the blame with 420 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: the Cobs. He was angry that he was in this 421 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 1: city situation at all, bedridden and confronting his mortality at 422 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: twenty one. He directed all of that at Maggie. 423 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 2: I wasn't such a great person as far as I think. 424 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 2: There was a lot of rage. 425 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, do you remember what you would say? 426 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 2: I don't remember the exact things I would say, but 427 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 2: I can just kind of imagine being in blind rage 428 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 2: and just saying awful shit. 429 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 4: I feel really self conscious even saying it like out loud. Yeah, 430 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 4: sometimes you would talk A would say how you fantasized 431 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 4: killing me? Really, I remember what. I don't remember if 432 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 4: it was your birthday or if there was something something 433 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 4: that was good. And I remember I made you a 434 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 4: bunch of cupcakes and you were so fucking mad. I 435 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 4: made you goddamn cupcakes, Like, why would you want cupcakes? 436 00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 4: You fucking smashed them? 437 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 2: Really, I don't remember that. 438 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: The first time I read Nick's account of that day, 439 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: I was struck by his ability to recall the minutia, 440 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: given that it's surprising to hear what he doesn't remember. 441 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 4: I didn't think you would ever do anything on it, 442 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 4: But I also lived with just a lot of fucking 443 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 4: rage and hate in my direction, and like, oddly I understood, 444 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 4: like how and why you were so mad. It's on 445 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 4: my own fucked up way, like I gave it a pass. 446 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: Nick might have forgotten some of the painful details, but 447 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: he does remember the moment he crossed the line. 448 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 3: Do you remember what that was? 449 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: I do? 450 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 3: Oh, tell me about that. 451 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 2: We were in a fight and it was a raging moment. 452 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 2: I don't know what the fuck it was about. But 453 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 2: I pushed you up against the wall and I had 454 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:54,919 Speaker 2: my hand sort of around your throat. 455 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, you remember this, I do know. 456 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 1: For the first time, Maggie breaks eye contact, she covers 457 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: her face with her hands. 458 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 4: Why did I hello this shit? 459 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 2: Well, he said get the fuck out right now, I 460 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 2: think is what you said, and I agreed with you. 461 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 4: It reads like domestic violence. 462 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: I know. 463 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 2: It dawned on me like, wow, this is really fucked up. 464 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 2: What am I doing? And you were looking at me like, yeah, 465 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 2: what the fuck are you doing? Can you remember that? 466 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 4: And I had so much empathy for what you were 467 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 4: going through and as I sit here hearing that, no, 468 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 4: it's like, where was I my fucking empathy for myself? 469 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 4: Who looked out for me? And why wasn't I looking 470 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 4: out for me? That's this fucking recurring pattern that just 471 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 4: like lived out, and I think that's why I'm feeling 472 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,120 Speaker 4: all the things that I'm feeling that It's like, holy fuck, 473 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 4: this is just another iteration of something that was a 474 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 4: part of that's my own story. 475 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:11,959 Speaker 5: For years, Maggie, I'm sorry, I don't know. 476 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 2: I just I'm honest when I say that, you know, 477 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 2: reflecting as much as I cared to over the years, 478 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 2: it dawned on me more and more the load of 479 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 2: shit that you dealt with. But that said, it wasn't 480 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,120 Speaker 2: just till a few minutes ago that I realized how 481 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 2: fucking happy that was. So it was hard to hear, 482 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 2: but necessary, and I can't. I'm not defensive because it's true. 483 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: I know. 484 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 2: I know that for a fact it was true. I 485 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 2: don't want to remember myself that way about ugly I became. 486 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 2: I really want to flip this story around to where 487 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 2: I'm a better person than I was. 488 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 1: The way Nick has always framed the story around that 489 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: day at the budget motel. 490 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 3: He was the victim. 491 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: A horrible, painful thing happened to him through no fault 492 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 1: of his own. He could have been paralyzed, he could 493 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 1: have died. But when you widen the story's frame beyond 494 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: the motel room, to include Nick's recovery, to include Maggie, 495 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 1: it isn't so simple. I. 496 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 4: On some level knew I was just in proximity and 497 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 4: I was the safest person, and I cared about you. 498 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 2: I still care about you. Well, I care about it. 499 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, you were so angry. 500 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 2: I still am. It's not just the nineteen ninety three 501 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 2: gunshot that made me pissed off about everything. It's just 502 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 2: everything going back to nineteen seventy three. 503 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 4: I remember, even before we were in a relationship, you 504 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 4: so wanted to connect with your dad. 505 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: Throughout Nick's childhood, his father was a largely absent figure. 506 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: He looked at Nick as an impediment of the things 507 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: he really wanted to do. Party, drink, have a good time. 508 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 4: You would talk about how like your dad would be 509 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 4: in the bar and you were a little kid and 510 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 4: so like, and it's your time to be with your dad, 511 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 4: and so you'd be sitting in the van for hours. 512 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 2: Just wait for me in the car. If you see 513 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 2: a cop or whatever with a flashlight or something, don't 514 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 2: be crying. Don't be crying, Okay, Dad, I promised, I 515 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 2: won't be crying if a cop like shine the flashlight 516 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 2: in here, wondering what I'm doing alone and waiting outside. 517 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 4: Of for okay. So fast forward to being shot and 518 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 4: not letting the cops know what's like. 519 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,719 Speaker 2: Just sucking it up. That's a lesson I learned early on. 520 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: Nick had been taught early on, had a shield others 521 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,959 Speaker 1: from blame. It makes sense that he, of all people, 522 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: would have been quick to tell the police he shot himself. 523 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 2: I was just doing what you told me to you, Dad. 524 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: It's hard to get someone who's ignoring you to even 525 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: notice your anger, whether it's the guy who shot you 526 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: in a motel room or the man who was supposed 527 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: to be raising you. And so you vent your anger 528 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: on the people you think might actually be able to 529 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: absorb it, even if they're not the ones who deserve it. 530 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: That's not an excuse, but it's an explanation. When Nick 531 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: first reached out for my help in finding Jared, his 532 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: dad had died only a few weeks earlier. Hearing all this, 533 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: that timing starts to feel like more than just a coincidence. 534 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: Nick's relationship with his dad is tied up with that day. 535 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: Nick brings up that memory of his dad showing up 536 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: at the hospital right after he was shot. 537 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 2: I think you had called him or whatever. So he drank. 538 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 4: I got a whold of him at the bar. 539 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: Wow. 540 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 2: So he drove, you know, to drunk, probably two hours. 541 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 2: And there's a couple of moments in my life with 542 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 2: dad where I felt like we were locked in and 543 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 2: it wasn't just me waiting around to get his attention. 544 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 2: And that was one of those moments. 545 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 4: When you got his attention. 546 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I could tell he was crying. 547 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 3: He was so upset. 548 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 2: So that's just like one of those one time is 549 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 2: where I was the focus of his attention. 550 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 4: You're one of the very few people from that time 551 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 4: in my life where I kept a thread any kind 552 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 4: of friend. It were somebody else, we wouldn't be sitting 553 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 4: here in my living room. 554 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 2: I'm so honored by that. Thank you, because I don't 555 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 2: know if I deserve it. Thank you are the hero 556 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 2: of this story. 557 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: The work of being a person is to recognize patterns 558 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: in ourselves, to see the things we do over and 559 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: over and to try to create new patterns, cast ourselves 560 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: in new roles and not just the role of hero. Nick, 561 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: for his part, is working to be more aware of 562 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: his anger, shielding. 563 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 2: My loved ones from it. How do I channel it 564 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 2: without hurting people near me? What I don't often realize 565 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 2: is how much it radiates and fucking penetrates other people. 566 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: As for Maggie, she wants to protect herself, to set 567 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: up her life so that she's the priority. 568 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 4: I'm trying to Yeah, I'm almost fifty. For the first 569 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 4: time in my life, I'm trying to. 570 00:32:55,520 --> 00:33:02,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, this is the story of a man who 571 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: was shot. I've just told you one version, a different 572 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: one than if Nick were telling it himself, a different 573 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: one than if he tried to lay it all out 574 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: again twenty years down the road. But for now, Nick 575 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 1: and Maggie hug and while I pack up to head 576 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: back to my hotel, the two of them go out 577 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: to sit on Maggie's balcony to enjoy the rest of 578 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: the day, to soak in what they can before the 579 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: sun goes down. 580 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 4: Now that the fernures ripped, turning to it's goodwill home. 581 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 3: Now that the last month's rant is scheming. 582 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:14,800 Speaker 2: With the damage to Gossle, take this moment to deserve. 583 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 4: If we meant it. 584 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 3: If we took but felt around for far too from 585 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 3: things Accidentally to. 586 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 4: Zero. 587 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,240 Speaker 1: This episode of Heavyweight was produced by senior producer Khalila 588 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: Holt and me Jonathan Goldstein, along with Phoebe Flanagan. Our 589 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 1: supervising producer is Stevie Lane. Production assistance by Mohemiy mcgouger, 590 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: editorial guidance from Emily Condon. Special thanks to Annie Minoff, 591 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,439 Speaker 1: Laura Morris, Lauren Silverman, and Jackie Cohen. Bobby Lord mixed 592 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,800 Speaker 1: the episode with original music by Christine Fellows, John K. Sampson, 593 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: Michael Hurst, Katie Condon, Blue Dot Sessions, and Bobby Lord. 594 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: Additional music credits can be found on our website Gimletmedia 595 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: dot com slash Heavyweight. Our theme song is by The 596 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: Weaker Thans courtesy of Epitaph Records. Heavyweight is a Spotify 597 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: original podcast. I'd also like to give a shout out 598 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: to another Spotify podcast that we love around here. On 599 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: the show, it's called Science Versus. The host, Wendy Zuckerman 600 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 1: is so much fun to listen to and I always 601 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 1: end up learning so much. Each episode she tackles a 602 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: different myth or fad like vaping or hypnosis, alternative milks, 603 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: and she dives into the science to deliver up the facts. 604 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: Science Versus is available anywhere you listen to podcasts, and 605 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: you really should. 606 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 3: Check it out. 607 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 1: You should also follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight, on 608 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: Instagram at Heavyweight podcast, or email us at Heavyweight at. 609 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 3: Gimletmedia dot com. 610 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: You can also follow our show on Spotify and tap 611 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: the bell to receive notifications when new episodes drop. We'll 612 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 1: be right back with a new episode just after Thanksgiving. 613 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:02,360 Speaker 1: Happy Toyky Day. 614 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 2: The bott